# Pacquiao FAKING Shoulder Injury



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

I believe there's a case for this given the questionable character of some of the figures at top rank.

After the fight he told Max in the interview ME WON. emmanuel himself proved he's not above lying. 

Top prank also dramatized an injury fairly recently when they got Timmeh a wheelchair for his fucked up leg or ankle. 

The Innovative Savant Shaheed Sinclair is no stranger to shoulder injuries. With his torn cuff he swept the initial 5 rounds against JLC before losing some. The peculiarity caused by his injury was transparent DURING the fight. In addition, I believe he also vocalized his shoulder being fucked up between rounds.

With emmanuel all this me hurt stuff only came AFTER the fight. Was fighting Floyd the cause of his injury, or is he merely making up stories like he did when he said he won the fight vs Floyd?

For years emmanuel, his team, and top rank have been public relations wizards manipulating public perception in their favor. What could be strong enough for them to change their natural and instinctive behavior?


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## MrJotatp4p (May 23, 2013)

Manny just got his ass out boxed. Simple as that. Floyd was faster, quicker, smarter, and adapted. He took away angles from Manny and figured him out. Manny couldn't throw punches in bunches simply bc he wasn't in range to and he was afraid of the lighting quick-accurate counter. That first big right hand Floyd landed got respect out the gate in round 1. He may be hurt but that's not the reason he wasn't running combinations.


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## boxing1 (Apr 15, 2015)

He lost. everyone needs an excuse. Maybe the shoulder was injured as there are stories that they asked the commission if they could inject it 90 mins before the fight but was refused. No boxer is 100%, everyone comes in with some niggling injury, may it be long term or from training camp. At the end he didn't want to say he lost, but knew he didnt do enough, talk like that which can lead to a rematch. His team knows what time it is, hence little talk from Freddie.


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## TeddyL (Oct 5, 2013)

I think it is beyond doubt that the injury was real, as can be shown when it was registered with the commision for the rejected request for the shoulder injection at 6.30pm, on fight night. They should have postponed. They didn't, so they have to live with the consequences of that decision


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I thought about going off on facebook to expose the "people's champ". These dumbass watch boxing once every 10 years and just believe what the media tells them. 

This fakeass ho has made excuses for his losses because of his fucking socks. His gloves, blood tests, cramps 4+ times, weight drainage, and his crappy work ethic. 

Then that trickles down to his garbageass fans who come up with his hair, toe stepping, tripping, lucky punches, wrong scorecards, biased refs, fixed fights, illumanti, etc. 

I have a very big prediction. Manny will never be as focused as he was last Saturday and he will lose again within his next 2 fights. If he fights Lucas Matthysse, he gets knocked out


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## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

TeddyL said:


> I think it is beyond doubt that the injury was real, as can be shown when it was registered with the commision for the rejected request for the shoulder injection at 6.30pm, on fight night. They should have postponed. They didn't, so they have to live with the consequences of that decision


If true, that's on his AZZ and his high need for public acceptance and approval.

Floyd's focus is what can I do to be better. emmanuel's focus is what can I do to have people like me.


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## ~Cellzki~ (Jun 3, 2013)

hes a piece of shit. point blank. fake ass "humble and god fearing" persona he puts on.

lmao, i bet he cried once he realized that God loves floyd more than him.


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## Jim Kelly (Jul 12, 2012)

he is a politician plus his master bob arum is a master of lying.


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## MrJotatp4p (May 23, 2013)

Let's be honest. Manny and his team showed up for a paycheck so they could be a part of the money team. Horrible camp, brining in a UFC guy, Roach talking every day about Floyd's legs, Sr speech, Floyd's character and basically calling him evil. They knew they had no chance outside of catching Floyd with something and knocking him out. They knew 5 yrs ago and they knew going into Sat. 

Manny even started laughing after he said," I gave my best, but my best wasn't good enough."


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

Do the math. He sent his sparring partners home. He requested pain shots before the fight..

Another asterisk in Pac's loss column.

He should have postponed it if he was injured. Floyd postponed a JMM fight because of an injury..


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## church11 (Jun 6, 2013)

all of these excuses are getting ridiculous. have some pride man, you're one of the greatest fighters of this generation. just take the loss on the chin like a true athlete. 

esp this new crap about floyd knowing about the shoulder injury (and exacerbating it) bc of a mole in the camp and ellerbe's comments about knowing everything going on during pac's training. 

floyd really did some psychological damage to this guy lol


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## igor_otsky (Jul 24, 2012)

Floyd should have KTFO Manny then.


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

:franklin


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

:lol: fuck this chump


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> Do the math. He sent his sparring partners home. He requested pain shots before the fight..
> 
> Another asterisk in Pac's loss column.
> 
> He should have postponed it if he was injured. Floyd postponed a JMM fight because of an injury..


He sent his sparring partners home because they were whupping his ass.


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## JDK (Jun 3, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> :lol: fuck this chump


:rofl no rematch please


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## MrJotatp4p (May 23, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> He sent his sparring partners home because they were whupping his ass.


Lmao


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## gander tasco (Jun 23, 2013)

Didn't Floyd make an excuse about his shoulder after the Castillo fight?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

gander tasco said:


> Didn't Floyd make an excuse about his shoulder after the Castillo fight?


he was talking about his shoulder after the first round (he won that round) vs Castillo. Floyd said his shoulder hurt him and gave Castillo an immediate rematch.






11:30
Roger "Is your arm ok?"
Floyd "just massage it"

11:56 Merchant - "Mayweather made a comment about his left shoulder"


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> he was talking about his shoulder after the first round (he won that round) vs Castillo. Floyd said his shoulder hurt him and gave Castillo an immediate rematch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Difference shouldn't even need to be explained to anyone who saw the fight :verysad


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## mick557 (Jun 6, 2013)

A lot of hate in this thread from the fan base that complains so much about haters..

If Manny purses a rematch then there might be some legitimacy to the injury if he doesn't then we know he is making excuses.


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## gander tasco (Jun 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> he was talking about his shoulder after the first round (he won that round) vs Castillo. Floyd said his shoulder hurt him and gave Castillo an immediate rematch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And? He used his shoulder as an excuse after the fight as the reason the fight was so close. How's that any different?


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

gander tasco said:


> And? He used his shoulder as an excuse after the fight as the reason the fight was so close. How's that any different?


How's it any different?
:franklin

He won, there's your difference

and, cause I know no one else will tell you

You honestly just need to shut the absolute fuck up :verysad


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> *Difference shouldn't even need to be explained to anyone who saw the fight* :verysad


exactly :verysad


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## gander tasco (Jun 23, 2013)

browsing said:


> How's it any different?
> :franklin
> 
> He won, there's your difference
> ...


Excuses are excuses. A lot of people thought Floyd lost, and instead of giving credit to Castillo he blamed it on his shoulder. There is no difference


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

TeddyL said:


> I think it is beyond doubt that the injury was real, as can be shown when it was registered with the commision for the rejected request for the shoulder injection at 6.30pm, on fight night. They should have postponed. They didn't, so they have to live with the consequences of that decision


Even more impressive for Floyd then. He went into the JLC fight with a separated shoulder, fought a much larger man who was cheating, and still beat him on the cards. American football play injured most of the season. You still have to perform and is what separates the greatest from the very good.


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

MrJotatp4p said:


> Let's be honest. Manny and his team showed up for a paycheck so they could be a part of the money team. Horrible camp, brining in a UFC guy, Roach talking every day about Floyd's legs, Sr speech, Floyd's character and basically calling him evil. They knew they had no chance outside of catching Floyd with something and knocking him out. They knew 5 yrs ago and they knew going into Sat.
> 
> Manny even started laughing after he said," *I gave my best, but my best wasn't good enough.*"


It's lyrics in a song and Pac is a wonderful singer. LOL Seemed to me that's why he was laughing


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

gander tasco said:


> Excuses are excuses. A lot of people thought Floyd lost, and instead of giving credit to Castillo he blamed it on his shoulder. There is no difference, sorry but that's logic.


No you absolute dumbass, its not logic.

1. Floyd was clearly injured in his fight against Castillo, the fact of this came up in his corner, showed by his punch selection and presented itself when Floyd started trying to switch-hit.

2. Floyd still won the fight. He beat Cast with one arm and schooled him with 2 in the rematch.

3. You're still as pathetic and illogical today, three years later, as you were back on ESB. atsch


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> Do the math. He sent his sparring partners home. He requested pain shots before the fight..
> 
> Another asterisk in Pac's loss column.
> 
> He should have postponed it if he was injured. Floyd postponed a JMM fight because of an injury..


That was in the beginning/middle of camp and he damaged a rib. This would have had catastrophic revenue impact and lashing out by the public.


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## gander tasco (Jun 23, 2013)

browsing said:


> No you absolute dumbass, its not logic.
> 
> 1. Floyd was clearly injured in his fight against Castillo, the fact of this came up in his corner, showed by his punch selection and presented itself when Floyd started trying to switch-hit.
> 
> ...


:lol: Your making the assumption that Pac wasn't injured. It's looking like he was; but the bottom line is both guys made the same excuse after the fight - it's the same thing. Who cares if Floyd won, it was disputed or there wouldn't have been a rematch. Instead of giving Castillo credit, he blamed the entire fight on his shoulder. I know this is confusing you but it's not a hard concept, there's no difference between an excuse and an excuse.


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

gander tasco said:


> :lol: Your making the assumption that Pac wasn't injured.


No the fuck it didn't look like he was.

You know what no one said, no commentator or any else (*even your own lying snake ass*) during the Pacquaio vs Mayweather fight



> 'Wow, Pac must be hurt, he ain't throwing his right.'/'Pac looks like he might be injured'


Why? Because he looked like he always did and threw his punches without a grimace or blowback and as someone who has boxed and played football with rotator cuff injury the signs of that injury are clear and present. No one has to wonder if you're injured or not and you won't be out their throwing with impunity without serious implications.

And YOU CARE that Floyd won, you and the rest of those who got their souls snatched by Floyd care that he beat Manny P.

Watching you guys squirm is one of the best parts of the victory. Keep up the good work. bama


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## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

browsing said:


> No the fuck it didn't look like he was.
> 
> You know what no one said, no commentator or any else (*even your own lying snake ass*) during the Pacquaio vs Mayweather fight
> 
> ...


YOu must have posted that Obama 100 timez so far.:lol:


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> YOu must have posted that Obama 100 timez so far.:lol:


All things considered, it's just so appropriate.


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> I have a very big prediction. Manny will never be as focused as he was last Saturday and he will lose again within his next 2 fights. If he fights Lucas Matthysse, he gets knocked out


Sounds like you think he's a faded warrior if he's losing to perfect style-matchups now...


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

The Floyd fans going in on Manny is kind of sorry. Not sure why they take it so personally guy gave so much to boxing. We all know nobody's perfect, especially fighter's that often need to reconcile with their ego after bad performances. They make make excuses, contradict themselves (Cough Floyd cough), etc. Guy gave off some of the most exciting fights in the sport. He Jumped up eight weight classes, winning multiple weight-classes. Was willing to fight almost anyone. Are they jealous that he gave more exciting fights & performances than their idol? Love Floyd and he's been responsibly for many great fights but one guy was a PPV star and the "people's champ" without having to cast himself as the villain to garner drama & fight interest. 

I'm sad for boxing that both their reigns are virtually over.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

PetetheKing said:


> Sounds like you think he's a faded warrior if he's losing to perfect style-matchups now...


Manny was clamoring for this fight for years and finally got it and laid an egg. He'll never have that motivation again.


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## randomwalk (Jul 13, 2013)

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/i...-significant-tear-rotator-cuff-right-shoulder


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## manex (Jun 4, 2013)

Manny Pacquiao needs surgery to fix 'significant tear' in right shoulder:

"We have an MRI scan that confirms he has a rotator cuff tear. He has a significant tear," said {DR.} ElAttrache, who was still with Pacquiao at his Kerlan Jobe Orthopedics office in Los Angeles when he spoke to ESPN.com on Monday evening.


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## manex (Jun 4, 2013)

...


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## MrJotatp4p (May 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Manny was clamoring for this fight for years and finally got it and laid an egg. He'll never have that motivation again.


I'll be honest. Freddie Roach and Mannys entire team let him down for the biggest fight of his life.
They brought in a former UFC fighter to spar, watched fucking tapes on Judah and had no game plan. Roach figured Manny could win a few rounds in the center and steal enough with Floyd on the ropes.

Roach gave no advice in the corner between rounds, didnt have a fucking clue. They couldn't even get his paper work right for a shot and that falls on Koncz and Arum. Pac was on his own from the day he signed for this fight and on his behalf I say Fuck Roach, Arum and Koncz for dropping the ball.


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

randomwalk said:


> http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/i...-significant-tear-rotator-cuff-right-shoulder


If it was as 'significant' as they are eluding to then he wouldn't have been punching the way he was and wouldn't have been able to raise his arms in victory at the end. Significant does not mean bad or say a bad grade 2 tear. Anyone who has had a bad rotator cuff injury from sports knows exactly what I am talking about.


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## randomwalk (Jul 13, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> If it was as 'significant' as they are eluding to then he wouldn't have been punching the way he was and wouldn't have been able to raise his arms in victory at the end. Significant does not mean bad or say a bad grade 2 tear. Anyone who has had a bad rotator cuff injury from sports knows exactly what I am talking about.


Not faking it though.


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## manex (Jun 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> If it was as 'significant' as they are eluding to then he wouldn't have been punching the way he was and wouldn't have been able to raise his arms in victory at the end. Significant does not mean bad or say a bad grade 2 tear. Anyone who has had a bad rotator cuff injury from sports knows exactly what I am talking about.


An injury that needs surgery is not significant?

I didn't know that.

Are you a doctor?

*Manny Pacquiao will undergo right shoulder surgery later this week to repair a "significant tear" in his rotator cuff, orthopedic surgeon Dr. Neal ElAttrache told ESPN.com on Monday*.

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id...right-shoulder


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## SuckaPunch510 (May 22, 2013)

MrJotatp4p said:


> I'll be honest. Freddie Roach and Mannys entire team let him down for the biggest fight of his life.
> They brought in a former UFC fighter to spar, watched fucking tapes on Judah and had no game plan. Roach figured Manny could win a few rounds in the center and steal enough with Floyd on the ropes.
> 
> Roach gave no advice in the corner between rounds, didnt have a fucking clue. They couldn't even get his paper work right for a shot and that falls on Koncz and Arum. Pac was on his own from the day he signed for this fight and on his behalf I say Fuck Roach, Arum and Koncz for dropping the ball.


This^


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## dressbrad (May 4, 2015)

Dillyyo said:


> If it was as 'significant' as they are eluding to then he wouldn't have been punching the way he was and wouldn't have been able to raise his arms in victory at the end. Significant does not mean bad or say a bad grade 2 tear. Anyone who has had a bad rotator cuff injury from sports knows exactly what I am talking about.


You make no sense. Remember this is pacquiao? The humble boxer, not one to make excuses. Arum and roach were the ones doing that. PAc man just admitted he was hurt and denied an injection. He even said its floyds victory, let him have it, its not fake thats besides the point. The point is how will people react and what will the result be


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## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

gander tasco said:


> Excuses are excuses. A lot of people thought Floyd lost, and instead of giving credit to Castillo he blamed it on his shoulder. There is no difference


This. :deal

Both fighters are crybaby cunts.


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## manex (Jun 4, 2013)

*Hi profile Doctors don't generally operate on "fake injuries" unless they want to open themselves up for a malpractice lawsuit.

In case somebody missed it:*

*Manny Pacquiao will undergo right shoulder surgery later this week to repair a "significant tear" in his rotator cuff, orthopedic surgeon Dr. Neal ElAttrache told ESPN.com on Monday*.

*"We have an MRI scan that confirms he has a rotator cuff tear. He has a significant tear," said ElAttrache, *

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id...right-shoulder


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## manex (Jun 4, 2013)

MrJotatp4p said:


> I'll be honest. Freddie Roach and Mannys entire team let him down for the biggest fight of his life.
> They brought in a former UFC fighter to spar, watched fucking tapes on Judah and had no game plan. Roach figured Manny could win a few rounds in the center and steal enough with Floyd on the ropes.
> 
> Roach gave no advice in the corner between rounds, didnt have a fucking clue. They couldn't even get his paper work right for a shot and that falls on Koncz and Arum. Pac was on his own from the day he signed for this fight and on his behalf I say Fuck Roach, Arum and Koncz for dropping the ball.


I totally agree with the above!

Also, Freddy filled Manny's head with "Floyd's legs are shot" which encouraged manny to underestimate Floyd.

I couldn't believe how lightly manny was taking the biggest fight in his life against the best boxer he's ever faced.

Floyd put in the work -- had the right attitude -- and fully deserved to win.

... by the way, I'm a PAC fan!


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## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

PetetheKing said:


> Sounds like you think he's a faded warrior if he's losing to perfect style-matchups now...


:rofl


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## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> If it was as 'significant' as they are eluding to then he wouldn't have been punching the way he was and wouldn't have been able to raise his arms in victory at the end. Significant does not mean bad or say a bad grade 2 tear. Anyone who has had a bad rotator cuff injury from sports knows exactly what I am talking about.


:huh You just made a point on the prior page about how common it is for athletes to have to fight through serious injuries - now you're saying an injury can't be serious if an athlete continues to fight through it?


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

rofl lmfao 

this thread is the exact reason why educated guys dont pass judgement on alleged injuries until verified to be valid or not.

now we have dumfuks, and there are no shortage of dumfuks on this forum, sitting egg faced alleging paq faked an injury and will now probably claim paq will have faked his surgery as well.

rofl paq is having the exact same surgery vitali had to have after klitscho failed to answer the 10th round against chris bryd in a fight he was up by 17 points


four pages of epic failure


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## ChampionsForever (Jun 5, 2013)

The injury seems legit, it wouldn't have made a difference though, Mayweather would have bored him to death regardless.


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## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

Floyd has agreed to rematch him so suddenly

Since when was the last time Floyd gave an opponent a yes that quickly

More fuel to the emmanuel is faking it hypothesis


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> Floyd has agreed to rematch him so suddenly
> 
> Since when was the last time Floyd gave an opponent a yes that quickly
> 
> More fuel to the emmanuel is _*faking it *_hypothesis


wtf?

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/i...-significant-tear-rotator-cuff-right-shoulder

pac is set to have surgery on a "significant tear" on his rotator cuff later this week. what kind of dum fuk moron would think that a renowned surgeon and athlete would fake a surgery?


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

quincy k said:


> wtf?
> 
> http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/i...-significant-tear-rotator-cuff-right-shoulder
> 
> pac is set to have surgery on a "significant tear" on his rotator cuff later this week. what kind of dum fuk moron would think that a renowned surgeon and athlete would fake a surgery?


:lol:

Another failing and struggling post by our favorite schizophrenic.

You've never had a 'significant tear' on your rotator cuff, because if you did, you'd know that Pacquaio/Top Rank was full of shit.

The range of motion is greatly inhibited by just *average* rotator cuff injuries. We see this in football a lot. And as someone who has had rotator cuff injuries (and still suffers from it) and played ball and trained (boxing) with the injury you are greatly inhibited in your abilities and even those who soldier through it compensate and are clearly in pain throughout.

Not one person watching the fight thought anything was ever wrong with Pacquaio's right side, he was throwing his lunging right lead and right hook just fine.

But I'll enjoy watching you and the rest of the butthurts hug to this 'injury' non-sense :franklin

48-0 bama


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

browsing said:


> :lol:
> 
> Another failing and struggling post by our favorite schizophrenic.
> 
> ...


failing and struggling?

arent you the guy that lost a ban bet on esb...and still continue to post there? i think most people would agree that is pretty schizophrenic, if not at the very least pathetic.

_*"We have an MRI scan that confirms he has a rotator cuff tear. He has a significant tear," said ElAttrache, who was still with Pacquiao at his Kerlan Jobe Orthopedic Clinic office in Los Angeles when he spoke to ESPN.com.*_
_*ElAttrache said Pacquiao will be out of action between nine months and a year, assuming the surgery and rehabilitation go well.*_


http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20150424/top-50-most-powerful-in-la-sports-no-48-dr-neal-elattrache-sports-medicine

so i guess you know more about injuries than Dr. Neal ElAttrache who performed surgeries on grenke, kobe, vitali and tom brady?

but forget all this as what i really want to know is why do you continue posting on the esb forum when you have admittedly lost a ban bet there?


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## El-Terrible (Jun 5, 2013)

browsing said:


> :lol:
> 
> You've never had a 'significant tear' on your rotator cuff, because if you did, you'd know that Pacquaio/Top Rank was full of shit.


So the doctor interviews, surgery and sparring partner interviews are all made up?


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## victor879 (May 5, 2015)

If this was known prior to the fight, and they went ahead regardless, I don't see how the media and fans can let Manny slide on that. He basically just committed fraud. People who bet money on Manny, and paid for the fight, were expecting a "healthy Manny Pacquiao." All indications from his camp prior to the bout seemed to indicate this. 

Surely some legal action could follow? If it can proved they purposely concealed the injury, I don't see how that isn't liable for some potential financial law suits. (I'm not a lawyer however, so I don't know for certain) Just seems very shady to say the least considering the magnitude of the event and the money involved that they would knowingly send in a fighter with an injury that requires surgery.

Not to mention: How do we have any guarantees Manny won't lie and conceal another injury next year? What if the surgery leaves some pain/lasting damage and he just lies about it? Just playing devil's advocate here for the "rematch of the century."

Forget about all the "it's an excuse." How about just it was "completely dishonest?" Seriously, completely dishonest to the point you have no idea if anybody from Pac's team, including Pacquiao himself, is ever telling the full truth about anything. Not a trustworthy group of people, and it honestly makes me question where this Manny Pacquiao "good boy image" comes from. "Good people" aren't serial liars.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

"Injury" to sell the rematch.
some people are really gullible


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## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

victor879 said:


> If this was known prior to the fight, and they went ahead regardless, I don't see how the media and fans can let Manny slide on that. He basically just committed fraud. People who bet money on Manny, and paid for the fight, were expecting a "healthy Manny Pacquiao." All indications from his camp prior to the bout seemed to indicate this.
> 
> Surely some legal action could follow? If it can proved they purposely concealed the injury, I don't see how that isn't liable for some potential financial law suits. (I'm not a lawyer however, so I don't know for certain) Just seems very shady to say the least considering the magnitude of the event and the money involved that they would knowingly send in a fighter with an injury that requires surgery.
> 
> ...


have you heard about how the NSAC wants to suspend him for lying



tliang1000 said:


> "Injury" to sell the rematch.
> some people are really gullible


yep

you want to see a fucked up rotator cuff watch FLoyd-JLC


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

El-Terrible said:


> So the doctor interviews, surgery and sparring partner interviews are all made up?


You know what no one, including yourself, (or anyone else watching closely here on the forum), said during this fight?

"*Pacquiao looks hurt.*"

You know what not one announcer or boxing commentator alluded to?

_That Pacquaio seemed to be favoring his right a bit, or wincing, or grimacing when he throws it._

Or any variety of comment asserting an observation of that sort. :franklin

Mayhaters/Pactards are just jumping on the excuse bandwagon as a remedy to dem dere butthurts throbbing in their cracks, but its not very soothing at all is it?


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> you want to see a fucked up rotator cuff watch FLoyd-JLC


Period. Its was obvious to everyone watching that Floyd was indeed injured.
The talk was in his corner, on the lips of the commentator, in Floyd's face and body language and even caused him to improvise and switch-hit.
And he still managed to beat JLC with one arm

"*I will always find a way to win*." - Floyd 'Soul Snatcher' Mayweather. bama


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

quincy k said:


> failing and struggling?


Yes, struggling and failing.



quincy k said:


> but forget all this as what i really want to know is why do you continue posting on the esb forum when you have admittedly lost a ban bet there?


:hey You're the master at investigating posts across forums, why don't you find the answer yourself sherlock. :hey


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## victor879 (May 5, 2015)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> *have you heard about how the NSAC wants to suspend him for lying
> *
> 
> yep
> ...


Interesting. :think


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## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

I have to give it to @browsing

It's like Floyd's victory infused him with super trolling powers

This boy is a force that cannot be stopped now

He's like an exquisite blend between a prime Relentless and ESB Chinchecker HEADBANGER


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

browsing said:


> Yes, struggling and failing.
> 
> 
> :hey You're the master at investigating posts across forums, why don't you find the answer yourself sherlock. :hey




thats okay, browsing

hard for me to argue with a guy who claims to know more about sports injuries than dr neal elattrache. to most people, thats a pretty delusional person

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/201...orts-no-48-dr-neal-elattrache-sports-medicine


----------



## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> I have to give it to @*browsing*
> 
> It's like Floyd's victory infused him with super trolling powers
> 
> ...


Is it trolling if I'm right though? :kwonooh

The trolling should be attributed to these people looking to make excuses for why that Mr. *10*-_9_ treatment got their butts so hurt.

Whats ironic is that even here on this forum most of the people arguing for Manny in the aftermath of that easy ass whooping are people who, begrudgingly, picked Floyd to win! :lol: :rofl

So, no, I have no mercy for most of these dumb dumbs here who are trying to pass off as neutral, nonchalant, or indifferent about Floyd wining, when really they're Mayhaters suffering from a soul burning case of the butthurts.

This victory hurt a lot of these dudes more than the death of their mothers. :rlydoe


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

browsing said:


> This victory hurt a lot of these dudes more than the death of their mothers. :rlydoe


:lol::lol::rofl:roflatsch


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

browsing said:


> Is it trolling if I'm right though? :kwonooh
> 
> The trolling should be attributed to these people looking to make excuses for why that Mr. *10*-_9_ treatment got their butts so hurt.
> 
> ...


lmfao

what does a person using the shoulder injury as an excuse have to do with an absolute epic failure thread from sexy sergio starting a thread saying that paq was "faking an injury" which is clearly not the case? two entirely different subjects.

if you stlll havent figured it out by now let me put it as clear as possible for you

this thread is about people claiming that paq faked an injury and has nothing to do with people or paq using the injury as an excuse for him losing... which is an entirely different subject. its really not that difficult

*Pacquiao FAKING Shoulder Injury*


----------



## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

randomwalk said:


> Not faking it though.


No, I don't believe he was faking it. I believe it was a light strain in camp and they couldn't take the several weeks off it would take to heal, so they worked through it and probably actually felt good about it. The problem was they didn't expect to miss Floyd so much and likely exacerbate the the injury, which is very common in all sports.


----------



## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

manex said:


> An injury that needs surgery is not significant?
> 
> I didn't know that.
> 
> ...


A guy who makes 10,000 dollars a year was robbed of 5,000 dollars last night. His loss was significant. A guy who makes 1,000,000 dollars a year was robbed of 50,000 dollars last night. His loss was significant. If you can't understand the relative context of the word significant, then I can't help you.

When you grade tears of the muscles/connective tissues they use a scale of 1, 2, and 3. 1 is equal to 1% - 10% tear; 2 is equal to 11% - 89%; 3 is equal to 90% - 100% (detachment). Grade 2 has a very wide range and it's why I said if its a strong grade 2 or a 3, then I would better understand the word "significant" in its proper context. Without that, significant can just mean its operable and will help the healing process better.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

So can Timothy Bradley get his third match since he tore his calf muscle in the 4th round?



Dillyyo said:


> No, I don't believe he was faking it. I believe it was a light strain in camp and they couldn't take the several weeks off it would take to heal, so they worked through it and probably actually felt good about it. The problem was they didn't expect to miss Floyd so much and likely exacerbate the the injury, which is very common in all sports.


that's exactly how I see it also


----------



## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> :huh You just made a point on the prior page about how common it is for athletes to have to fight through serious injuries - now you're saying an injury can't be serious if an athlete continues to fight through it?


Come on, man. Again, serious is relative. If he had a serious rotator cuff injury that was a high grade 2 or 3 tear, it is likely he would not have near the mobility he had in his arm. They used the word significant and that does not correlate to either of those grading of injury.


----------



## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

browsing said:


> :lol:
> 
> Another failing and struggling post by our favorite schizophrenic.
> 
> ...


Crazy you have to break this shit down like baby food for some of these guys. Like you said, if you had a bad tear in your rotator cuff, you are not having the same range of motion Surely nothing like the punches Manny was throwing throughout.


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## Specktah5Fiddy (Jun 9, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> If it was as 'significant' as they are eluding to then he wouldn't have been punching the way he was and wouldn't have been able to raise his arms in victory at the end. Significant does not mean bad or say a bad grade 2 tear. Anyone who has had a bad rotator cuff injury from sports knows exactly what I am talking about.


I've torn both mine. No way he raises his arms up thinking he won let alone throw punches with it for 12 rds. He's full of shit.


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## Specktah5Fiddy (Jun 9, 2013)

quincy k said:


> wtf?
> 
> http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/i...-significant-tear-rotator-cuff-right-shoulder
> 
> pac is set to have surgery on a "significant tear" on his rotator cuff later this week. what kind of dum fuk moron would think that a renowned surgeon and athlete would fake a surgery?


They just go in with a camera and look around. Im having it done next month.


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

Specktah5Fiddy said:


> I've torn both mine. No way he raises his arms up thinking he won let alone throw punches with it for 12 rds. He's full of shit.


I've torn both mine playing college ball back in the day and I agree. Shit seriously sucked, but I opted for skipping surgery because the recovery and rehab time was pretty long and it's not like I was going going to the combine.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Specktah5Fiddy said:


> I've torn both mine. No way he raises his arms up thinking he won let alone throw punches with it for 12 rds. He's full of shit.


jeff lacy fought with a torn rotator cuff in a 10 round fight

andre berto fought with a tear near his rotator cuff in the soto fight

regardless, paqs having surgery this week and you would have to be pretty dumb to think he would have surgery on a shoulder that doesnt need it and equally as dumb to think that a dr would say that he has a rotator cuff tear when he doesnt.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> jeff lacy fought with a torn rotator cuff in a 10 round fight
> 
> andre berto fought with a tear near his rotator cuff in the soto fight
> 
> regardless, paqs having surgery this week and you would have to be pretty dumb to think he would have surgery on a shoulder that doesnt need it and equally as dumb to think that a dr would say that he has a rotator cuff tear when he doesnt.


I don't think that helps your point. When Berto tore his right shoulder, it was VERY obvious that he couldn't use it


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I don't think that helps your point. When Berto tore his right shoulder, it was VERY obvious that he couldn't use it


okay, maybe the berto reference is not good

specktah5fiddy said that there is no way that paq couldve raised his hands thinking he won or punched for 12 rounds if he had a torn rotator cuff.

since berto did not fight the entire 12 rounds as he was kod in the 12th and did not have his hand raised in victory then he is right in his pacquioa assumption as it did not come to fruition for andre berto in the berto/karass fight


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Man there are some really sad people ITT. No surprise which team they bat for.


----------



## Squire (May 17, 2013)

bama

:lol:


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> okay, maybe the berto reference is not good
> 
> specktah5fiddy said that there is no way that paq couldve raised his hands thinking he won or punched for 12 rounds if he had a torn rotator cuff.
> 
> since berto did not fight the entire 12 rounds as he was kod in the 12th and did not have his hand raised in victory then he is right in his pacquioa assumption as it did not come to fruition for andre berto in the berto/karass fight


You can still do certain movements with your shoulder when the rotator cuff is hurt. Putting your hands up is possible, but if it's truly hurting, I'd refrain from doing that motion.

I partially tore my left rotator cuff and hurt both. I had to rest my left for several months and it never got better until I rehabbed it. It's tricky. You can do certain movemements fine, but other ones you can't. It's not really painful, but extremely uncomfortable

Before the fight. If my shoulder has issues, I'm using my left as much as possible. 









When my shoulder was hurt, I would never attempt to put my arms up like this. Even now, if I did for too long, my shoulder would start hurting again









and again, if this was me, I'd be waving my non injured arm in the air trying not to exacerbate my injured one


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> You can still do certain movements with your shoulder when the rotator cuff is hurt. Putting your hands up is possible, but if it's truly hurting, I'd refrain from doing that motion.
> 
> I partially tore my left rotator cuff and hurt both. I had to rest my left for several months and it never got better until I rehabbed it. It's tricky. You can do certain movemements fine, but other ones you can't. It's not really painful, but extremely uncomfortable
> 
> ...


jeff lacy didnt seem to have a problem raising his arms at the end of the fight when he beat tyspko


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> jeff lacy didnt seem to have a problem raising his arms at the end of the fight when he beat tyspko


like I said, you can do certain motions. For me to raise my arm while it was injured, I'd have to do it real slow making sure my hand isn't turned a certain way and my arm is facing the right angle.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> like I said, you can do certain motions. For me to raise my arm while it was injured, I'd have to do it real slow making sure my hand isn't turned a certain way and my arm is facing the right angle.


what does performing motions and not being able to perform motions have to do with people on this thread claiming that paq faked his injury?

the title of this thread is _*pacquiao-FAKING-Shoulder-injury*_

now unless you think that a prominent dr, arguably the best sports surgeon in the United States, is faking a medical report and is about to perform a fake medical surgery on manny pacquioa i think that most people would agree that there really is nothing left to debate regarding the topic of this thread

a thread of utter failure


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> what does performing motions and not being able to perform motions have to do with people on this thread claiming that paq faked his injury?
> 
> the title of this thread is _*pacquiao-FAKING-Shoulder-injury*_
> 
> ...


I'm addressing the point about Manny raising his arm from the one post you made above. As a guy who's had problems with his shoulder, I wanted to give my point of view.

I don't think Manny was faking it, but I think it was tweaked before the fight and made worse during the fight to where it needed surgery. I do not think that the injury was that bad though.

Cotto and Ward fought for years with bad right shoulders winning many fights while doing so. Ward just got surgery on it after Dawson and Cotto after Foreman irc


----------



## manex (Jun 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> A guy who makes 10,000 dollars a year was robbed of 5,000 dollars last night. His loss was significant. A guy who makes 1,000,000 dollars a year was robbed of 50,000 dollars last night. His loss was significant. If you can't understand the relative context of the word significant, then I can't help you.
> 
> When you grade tears of the muscles/connective tissues they use a scale of 1, 2, and 3. 1 is equal to 1% - 10% tear; 2 is equal to 11% - 89%; 3 is equal to 90% - 100% (detachment). Grade 2 has a very wide range and it's why I said if its a strong grade 2 or a 3, then I would better understand the word "significant" in its proper context. Without that, significant can just mean its operable and will help the healing process better.


Thank you for this valuable information.

However, the thread is about whether manny is FAKING AN INJURY.

The word FAKE doesn't leave much room for relative context.

It's like a woman is either pregnant or she isn't.

She can't be a little bit pregnant.

She either is or she isn't.

Same with the word FAKE.

Lets take money.

It can be REAL money...

Or it can be FAKE or counterfeit money.

It is either one or the other.

There is no in between.

A FAKE or counterfeit bill might fool you or I but it won't fool an expert.

An orthopedic surgeon -- AN EXPERT IN ORTHOPEDICS -- has determined that Manny has a significant injury.

How significant doesn't matter as far as determining whether Manny is FAKING an injury.

He is either faking or he is not.

There is no in between.

A high profile orthopedic surgeon -- an EXPERT in his field -- has determined that Manny has a tear in his rotator cuff.

It is a REAL -- not a FAKE -- tear in his rotator cuff.

Therefore, it follows, that Manny is NOT FAKING AN INJURY.

... By the way if someone with journalistic standing were to write an article accusing Manny of "Faking the injury to his shoulder" ... Manny could sue the SOB for libel -- and he would win!

Again, thanks for the information... I just wanted to return to the central point of the topic, namely, the accusation: "PACQUIAO FAKING SHOULDER INJURY".

I THINK NOT!

Manny Pacquiao will undergo right shoulder surgery later this week to repair a "significant tear" in his rotator cuff, orthopedic surgeon Dr. Neal ElAttrache told ESPN.com on Monday.

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id...right-shoulder


----------



## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

manex said:


> Thank you for this valuable information.
> 
> However, the thread is about whether manny is FAKING AN INJURY.
> 
> ...


Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was having a discussion in a thread that could only be commented in if it 100% agreed with the title of the thread. I think my post was rather clear in that it did not conform to the thought that Manny was 'faking' the injury, but rather was more so exaggerating the injury.


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## manex (Jun 4, 2013)

,,,


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## manex (Jun 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was having a discussion in a thread that could only be commented in if it 100% agreed with the title of the thread. I think my post was rather clear in that it did not conform to the thought that Manny was 'faking' the injury, but rather was more so exaggerating the injury.


Thank you for clearing that up!

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id...right-shoulder


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## ChampionsForever (Jun 5, 2013)

I'm a Pac fan, but this shit seems about as plausible as David Hayes toe injury, I beleive he injured it, did it impede him? Possibly, but Mayweather won fair and square on a level playing field, and even if Pac had a bionic shoulder, he would have gotten out ran Saturday night. Pac cannot beat a guy who is so good at being elusive, shoulder injury or not.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

ChampionsForever said:


> I'm a Pac fan, but this shit seems about as plausible as David Hayes toe injury, I beleive he injured it, did it impede him? Possibly, but Mayweather won fair and square on a level playing field, and even if Pac had a bionic shoulder, he would have gotten out ran Saturday night. Pac cannot beat a guy who is so good at being elusive, shoulder injury or not.


i think that there are other threads on this forum to comment on if paqs injury was the cause for his loss

this thread is dedicated for the dum fuks that alleged that paq had faked his shoulder injury


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> Crazy you have to break this shit down like baby food for some of these guys. Like you said, if you had a bad tear in your rotator cuff, you are not having the same range of motion Surely nothing like the punches Manny was throwing throughout.


so youre now agreeing with a moron, browsing, who is insinuating that paq suffered, at best, an "average" rotator cuff injury when dr elattrache diagnosed it as a "significant tear" that required surgery?

this dr elattrache?

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/201...orts-no-48-dr-neal-elattrache-sports-medicine

do you know how ludicrous it is for a person without a medical degree, and in all likelihood with zero medical background, to be questioning the diagnosis of a competent medical doctor let alone one that is arguably the best in his field?

you guys are psychopaths


----------



## El-Terrible (Jun 5, 2013)

The stupidest thread ever. The guy had a tear, confirmed by a surgeon, he's already had surgery, he injured it weeks before, Roach even said at the time Pacquiao was using just his left for sparring as using the dodgy training exercise excuse, so we know when this

http://www1.skysports.com/boxing/ne...the-floyd-mayweather-fight-says-freddie-roach

The guy was injured, would it have made a difference? Who knows...but it's clear he didn't fake it :rolleyes


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

El-Terrible said:


> The stupidest thread ever. The guy had a tear, confirmed by a surgeon, he's already had surgery, he injured it weeks before, Roach even said at the time Pacquiao was using just his left for sparring as using the dodgy training exercise excuse, so we know when this
> 
> http://www1.skysports.com/boxing/ne...the-floyd-mayweather-fight-says-freddie-roach
> 
> The guy was injured, would it have made a difference? Who knows...but it's clear he didn't fake it :rolleyes


the sad part about it is that the guys here on this thread think that they are normal...calling into question the diagnosis of a prominent medical doctor who is arguably the best in his field actually believing that there knowledge of medicine is better than dr. elattrache even though they have no medical background

this type of thinking to me...these guys are psychopaths.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

http://www.fighthype.com/news/article20434.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

*BT: Looking back at the fight and the days leading up to it, was there anything that led you to believe that something was wrong with Manny Pacquiao's shoulder?*

AA(Alex Ariza): Absolutely not. There was a lot of video of his workouts that were all over the place on the internet. When he was here, I think it was Wednesday at the Top Rank gym, he was doing mitts, hitting this and hitting that, throwing the hook; the same old thing. He looked good. He looked sharp. Everybody in their camp talked about this new Manny that we were supposed to see on Saturday night. I talked to many people in the camp afterwards and they're a little bit stunned as well that there was an injury.

I mean, here's the thing, when you look at athletes who are in these sports that do repetitive action movements, whether you're a pitcher, a tennis player, or even a quarterback, when you have something like what they said, a torn ligament or a torn tendon or something like that, trust me when I tell you you're not moving that shoulder, I don't care how much adrenaline you have, and then at the end of the fight, raise your hand over your head and start pumping your fist. The truth is Manny looked like shit. They brought him in at 152 pounds and he looked like shit. He wasn't physically strong, he wasn't quick, and he wasn't exposive. What does that have to do with his shoulder? Where was his footwork? Where were his angles? Where was all of that? So hurting his shoulder negates everything else? You know, if he says he's hurt, he's hurt, but after watching the fight 10 fucking times, man, I'm so disappointed that they took that route. He didn't do nothing during the fight to indicate that he was injured at all.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

when did alex ariza get his medical degree?


----------



## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> http://www.fighthype.com/news/article20434.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
> 
> *BT: Looking back at the fight and the days leading up to it, was there anything that led you to believe that something was wrong with Manny Pacquiao's shoulder?*
> 
> ...


QFT

I've been saying the same thing over and over again and as someone who has and suffers from rotator cuff injury I concur entirely.


----------



## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

quincy k said:


> so youre now agreeing with a moron, browsing, who is insinuating that paq suffered, at best, an "average" rotator cuff injury when dr elattrache diagnosed it as a "significant tear" that required surgery?
> 
> this dr elattrache?
> 
> ...


How do you know my background? I just provided to you the medically used grading system for tears. When you hear the injury based on that system, then you can know how bad it was. MRI report should clarify and it would be confirmed after they scoped it. Did anyone hear about the outcome of the arthro surgery?


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> How do you know my background? I just provided to you the medically used grading system for tears. When you hear the injury based on that system, then you can know how bad it was. MRI report should clarify and it would be confirmed after they scoped it. Did anyone hear about the outcome of the arthro surgery?


Finish your division III football scholarship and get back to us


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

apparently, out of the four tendons that function in the rotator cuff, one was completely torn and another was half torn; described as a full thickness tear

http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/and...-surgery-to-repair-right-shoulder-tear-218545

it appears that berto tore one of the four tendons, the main supporting tendon, and his surgery was preformed by the the same doctor that performed pacquios


----------



## Pimp C (Jun 3, 2013)

gander tasco said:


> Didn't Floyd make an excuse about his shoulder after the Castillo fight?


The difference is it was a legit injury and he still won.:deal


----------



## manex (Jun 4, 2013)

*Some may find the following of interest:

From the medical Dictionary

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/rotator+cuff+injury

The following is a synopses (please refer to the above link for further detail).

Rotator Cuff Injury

Definition:

A rotator cuff injury is a tear or inflammation of the rotator cuff tendons in the shoulder.

Causes and symptoms:

Tearing and inflammation in athletes is usually due to hard and repetitive use...

Causes and symptoms:

The two primary symptoms are pain and weakness in the shoulder or arm, especially with arm movement or at night. A partial tear may cause pain but still allow normal arm movement. A complete tear usually leaves the injured person unable to raise the arm away from the side.

Diagnosis:

Diagnosis is usually made after a physical examination, often by a sports medicine physician. X rays are also sometimes used in diagnosis as well as an arthrogram. However... magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) is preferred to determine tendon tears as it also shows greater detail than the arthrogram.

Treatment:

The primary treatment is resting the shoulder and, for minor tears and inflammation, applying ice packs. Anti-inflammatory medications may also be prescribed...

Serious tears to the rotator cuff tendons usually require surgery to repair.

Alternative treatment:

There are no effective alternative medicine treatments for rotator cuff injuries.

Prognosis:

The prognosis for recovery from minor rotator cuff injuries is excellent.

For serious injuries, the prognosis is usually good, some six weeks of physical therapy being required following surgery. Full recovery may take several more months.

Resources:

Hersch, Jonathan C. "Arthroscopically Assisted Mini-Open Rotator Cuff Repairs." The American Journal of Sports Medicine May 2000: 301...

UPDATE:

"Dr. Neal ElAttrache, a famed orthopedic surgeon who performed the 90-minute procedure to repair Pacquiao's torn rotator cuff, said he could not be 'more pleased with the results'."

"ElAttrache, who has also operated on athletes such as Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant and New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, said he 'expects Pacquiao to return to the ring'. He estimates that 'Pacquiao would not be able to fight again for nine months to a year'."

"{DR.} ElAttrache diagnosed Pacquiao with a 'significant tear' in his rotator cuff on Monday."

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/i...iao-undergoes-surgery-torn-right-rotator-cuff

PLEASE TAKE NOTE:

IF YOU HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE (OR HAVE EVIDENCE THEREOF ) that renowned orthopedic surgeon Dr. Neal ElAttrache has performed an UNNECESSARY, UNINFORMED, or otherwise ILLEGITIMATE (not authorized by the law; not in accordance with accepted standards or rules) operation on a FAKED, bogus, or NOT "LEGIT" rotator-cuff injury to manny Pacquiao's shoulder -- please notify the following agency:

The Medical Board of California

http://www.mbc.ca.gov/Consumers/Complaints/

*


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

bruh I've had rotator cuff problems with both shoulders. Weight lighting and boxing took a tole on them. I know what the injury is and Pacquiao didn't seem inhibited from it


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> bruh I've had rotator cuff problems with both shoulders. Weight lighting and boxing took a tole on them. I know what the injury is and Pacquiao didn't seem inhibited from it


comparing the resumes of dr elattrache to that of bballchump11 in regards to a credible discussion regarding manny pacquioas torn rotator cuff shoulder injury

dr neal elattrache

1. four years of pre med
2. four years of med school
3. three to seven years of residency
4. board certified orthopedic surgeon
5. ranked number two mlb baseball surgeon by Bleacher Report
6. ranked one of the top 19 sports surgeons by orthopedics magazine
7. ranked as a Super Surgeon/Doctor by four major publications
8. voted as one of the top 50 most powerful sports persons in Los Angeles 
9. has operated on zach greinke, kobi bryant, robert griffin 3, andre berto, georges st pierre,
tom brady, brandon beachy, roy halladay and cc sabathia among others

bballchump11

1. confirmed flomo
2. confirmed flomo that accused manny pacqioua of faking his injury
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> comparing the resumes of dr elattrache to that of bballchump11 in regards to a credible discussion regarding manny pacquioas torn rotator cuff shoulder injury
> 
> dr neal elattrache
> 
> ...


I want you to know that I don't even bother reading your posts half of the time. This is one of them. Your chb's version of Farmboxer


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I want you to know that I don't even bother reading your posts half of the time. This is one of them. Your chb's version of Farmboxer


this coming from a guy who claimed that paq faked his shoulder injury and is now insinuating that he knows more about sports injuries than dr elattrache?

a guy that also said anyone that thinks that a torn rotator cuff couldve had an effect on paqs performance, the same injury that robert guerrero postponed his marcos maidiana fight for, should be shot?

_*"yeah man anybody actually giving any attention to that shoulder bullshit needs to be shot."


*_
and if you havent figured it out i could give a rats azz if you you dont read my posts.

i just like to call out your bullshit for those with iqs under 80 that cant figure it for themselves


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


>


no I didn't read that one either


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> no I didn't read that one either

















you really need to watch this movie as a lot of what you do on this forum is very similar to robert deniro

by the way, why do your buddies always seem to get banned here on the chb forum? michiganwarrior and sexysergio?

pretty sad, you know, getting banned from an internet forum all worked up over some guy you dont know, will never know and could give two fuks about you.


----------



## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

quincy k said:


> ...


Even in their absence they're not butthurt like you are

:baz

48-0!
TMT!
TBE!
AND STILL!


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

browsing said:


> Even in their absence they're not butthurt like you are
> 
> :baz
> 
> ...


why would i be butt hurt? unlike you i won money on the fight betting on mayweather and my life doesnt revolve around manny pacquioa

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?64351-Your-predictions/page5

Browsing: Smell that? You smell that? What is it you ask?
Browsing: Butt-hurts, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. 
Browsing: I love the smell of throbbing butt-hurts in the morning. It smells like...
Browsing: ...*Victory...*

now, im trying to figure this all out. are you having a conversation with yourself or are you talking to what appears to be your son?

pretty sad either way, talking to yourself or telling your son that it is okay to live vicariously through the accomplishments of another man

as for "*Victory*," what exactly did you win since you admittedly did not wager on the fight?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

48-0
TMT
48-0
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48-0
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48-0
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48-0
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48-0
TMT
48-0
TMT


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## manex (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> bruh I've had rotator cuff problems with both shoulders. Weight lighting and boxing took a tole on them. I know what the injury is and Pacquiao didn't seem inhibited from it


See my post:

"A partial tear may cause pain but still allow normal arm movement."

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?65153-Pacquiao-FAKING-Shoulder-Injury/page7

It would appear Manny had a partial tear.

Thus, the only "inhibiting" factor would be PAIN.

Pain is most certainly a subjective experience.

Only Manny can testify as to how much pain he was feeling in his shoulder.

It HAS been established that people have different pain thresholds.

Some people have been known to completely "block out" pain, where others shy away from the slightest pin prick.

If Manny felt pain in his shoulder, it is reasonable to believe that he would involuntarily "favor" that shoulder to some extent -- even if the shoulder was otherwise fully functional.

That said -- although I think the fight was competitive -- Floyd was the better prepared man.

What is done in training camp determines to a great extent what will happen in the ring.

Floyd came in well trained and ready to fight to the best of his ability.

If Manny didn't think he was prepared and in fighting condition BEFORE he stepped into the ring -- that's on him and his teem, NOT Floyd!

Simply put... Floyd earned the win.

At the end of the day, why can't we ALL agree that Floyd Mayweather JR. is one of the Greatest Technical Boxers; and Manny Pacquiao is one of the Greatest and Fiercest Fighters?

As boxing fans why can't we appreciate both for what they do best?

It is unnecessary to denigrate one in order to build the other up.

All but the most obtuse should be able to understand this.


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

quincy k said:


> why would i be butt hurt? unlike you i won money on the fight betting on mayweather and my life doesnt revolve around manny pacquioa
> 
> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?64351-Your-predictions/page5
> 
> ...


You're *always* such a dumbass quincy, :lol: *God damn son you're always such a dumbass*! :lol


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

browsing said:


> You're *always* such a dumbass quincy, :lol: *God damn son you're always such a dumbass*! :lol


says the guy that admittedly lost a ban bet on the esb forums, claimed that you are honoring it, but still continue to post there?

now this is the second time i am asking you this

how about you dont caption my posts or mention me and i will do the same?

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?65415-Manny-s-Shoulder-Excuse&p=1976194#post1976194

i never comment on anything that you say unless provoked because you are about as significant to me as the nail clippings that i flushed down my toilet today

we can start right now


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

manex said:


> See my post:
> 
> "A partial tear may cause pain but still allow normal arm movement."
> 
> ...


I got ya man and I agree with you. I was just saying that I don't need you to post about rotator cuff injuries since I have firsthand knowledge, researched plenty of it and seen other fighters with the issue. You were in the right to post it though for those who weren't familiar with it and my bad if I came off as an asshole. 
I just didn't want to hear this narrative that Pacquiao was this "one armed fighter" or how this takes away from the win. No other fighter has gotten that pass. When Bradley tore his calf vs Pacquiao, I knew it was legit, but shit happens. If you get injured in a fight to the point you can't continue, it's a TKO loss. Bradley is one of my favorite active fighters, but you'll never see me bring up him twisting his ankles or tearing his calf


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## manex (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I got ya man and I agree with you. I was just saying that I don't need you to post about rotator cuff injuries since I have firsthand knowledge, researched plenty of it and seen other fighters with the issue. You were in the right to post it though for those who weren't familiar with it and my bad if I came off as an asshole.
> I just didn't want to hear this narrative that Pacquiao was this "one armed fighter" or how this takes away from the win. No other fighter has gotten that pass. When Bradley tore his calf vs Pacquiao, I knew it was legit, but shit happens. If you get injured in a fight to the point you can't continue, it's a TKO loss. Bradley is one of my favorite active fighters, but you'll never see me bring up him twisting his ankles or tearing his calf


It's all good, brother!:cheers


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

quincy k said:


> *says the guy that admittedly lost a ban bet on the esb forums, claimed that you are honoring it, but still continue to post there?*


You're *always* such a dumbass quincy, :lol: :baz

_You'd think such an investigative forum searcher as yourself would stop making easily corrected mistakes._


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

browsing said:


> You're *always* such a dumbass quincy, :lol: :baz
> 
> _You'd think such an investigative forum searcher as yourself would stop making easily corrected mistakes._


http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?65415-Manny-s-Shoulder-Excuse&p=1976194#post1976194

i asked you four days ago not to mention me or caption my posts and i will gladly do the same

why do you continue to want to inter act with some one that wants nothing to do with you?

is this the only way that you get noticed in life?

for hopefully the last time, you are about as significant to me as the nail clippings that i flushed down my toilet today

just go away


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

I tore a muscle in my shoulder..

I was out for at least a month.

At least we'll get a rematch when Floyd waits for PAC


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## ChampionsForever (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I got ya man and I agree with you. I was just saying that I don't need you to post about rotator cuff injuries since I have firsthand knowledge, researched plenty of it and seen other fighters with the issue. You were in the right to post it though for those who weren't familiar with it and my bad if I came off as an asshole.
> I just didn't want to hear this narrative that Pacquiao was this "one armed fighter" or how this takes away from the win. No other fighter has gotten that pass. When Bradley tore his calf vs Pacquiao, I knew it was legit, but shit happens. If you get injured in a fight to the point you can't continue, it's a TKO loss. Bradley is one of my favorite active fighters, but you'll never see me bring up him twisting his ankles or tearing his calf


Thats because Bradley got the decision in that fight :lol:

Only joking mate, I agree with you, Mayweather won fair and square, if he had popped his shoulder ain't the first round and Pac edge the fight I sure as shit wouldn't be wanting to hear any of the Flomos excuses, the gameplan was a bigger hindrance than his shoulder, why try to box/counter punch one of the greatest boxers/counterpunchers there has ever been?


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

Mayweather knew his shoulder was bad


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## El-Terrible (Jun 5, 2013)

ChampionsForever said:


> Thats because Bradley got the decision in that fight :lol:
> 
> Only joking mate, I agree with you, Mayweather won fair and square, if he had popped his shoulder ain't the first round and Pac edge the fight I sure as shit wouldn't be wanting to hear any of the Flomos excuses, the gameplan was a bigger hindrance than his shoulder, why try to box/counter punch one of the greatest boxers/counterpunchers there has ever been?


Has it occurred to you that the gameplan may have changed to boxing/counterpunch because they couldn't get the Toradol so were wary of going full tilt for fear of aggravating the shoulder early in the fight? No way that was Freddie Roach's intention - and in fact the first time he did go full tilt, in round 4, he won the round AND injured the shoulder...

Mayweather may have won anyway, I don't know for sure, but I find it amusing no Floyd fan can even consider it remotely possible that a torn rotator cuff 3 weeks out, without any anti-inflammatory allowed, may have hindered his performance or gameplan in any way. It's laughable


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

El-Terrible said:


> Has it occurred to you that the gameplan may have changed to boxing/counterpunch because they couldn't get the Toradol so were wary of going full tilt for fear of aggravating the shoulder early in the fight? No way that was Freddie Roach's intention - and in fact the first time he did go full tilt, in round 4, he won the round AND injured the shoulder...
> 
> Mayweather may have won anyway, I don't know for sure, but I find it amusing no Floyd fan can even consider it remotely possible that a torn rotator cuff 3 weeks out, without any anti-inflammatory allowed, may have hindered his performance or gameplan in any way. It's laughable


Wrong again. Round 4 opened up for Pac because he sat back and caught Floyd with a counter left.

Maybe you should think about taking some time off. Come back when Manny's shoulder heals.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

El-Terrible said:


> Has it occurred to you that the gameplan may have changed to boxing/counterpunch because they couldn't get the Toradol so were wary of going full tilt for fear of aggravating the shoulder early in the fight? No way that was Freddie Roach's intention - and in fact the first time he did go full tilt, in round 4, he won the round AND injured the shoulder...
> 
> Mayweather may have won anyway, I don't know for sure, but I find it amusing no Floyd fan can even consider it remotely possible that a torn rotator cuff 3 weeks out, without any anti-inflammatory allowed, may have hindered his performance or gameplan in any way. It's laughable


according to bballchump11 and rotator cuff injuries, since he has "researched plenty of it," it is 100 percent guaranteed that paqs "significant tear" in his rotator cuff had no effect on his performance and anyone thinking otherwise "should be shot" even though robert guerrero suffered a "partial tear" and cancelled his fight with marcos maidaina to have surgery.

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/6893137/robert-guerrero-shoulder-surgery-four-months

perhaps guerreros orthopedic doctor shouldve consulted bballchump11, since he has "researched" the topic of torn rotator cuffs, and wouldve then made the correct choice of not having perform a surgery on guerrero and advising robert to go through with his fight with maidaina

bbalchump11 "researched plenty of it" so there is no need for further discussion and anyone thinking otherwise, as bbalchump11 puts it, "should be shot."


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

quincy k said:


> according to bballchump11 and rotator cuff injuries, since he has "researched plenty of it," it is 100 percent guaranteed that paqs "significant tear" in his rotator cuff had no effect on his performance and anyone thinking otherwise "should be shot" even though robert guerrero suffered a "partial tear" and cancelled his fight with marcos maidaina to have surgery.
> 
> http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/6893137/robert-guerrero-shoulder-surgery-four-months
> 
> ...


Anyone that isn't a clown can clearly see the evidence from other athletes and people that the injury was likely in no way significant enough to impact Manny significantly. He just would not be able to use his arm/shoulder in the manner he did if it was as significant as many are being led to believe.

In all normal world likelihood, the shoulder being 100% would not have made one bit of difference because A) Pac could barely hit Floyd with either hand B) Pac hit Floyd with a straight left and didn't even buckle him. To think he would have somehow pummeled Floyd with his right is just silly. Especially when we saw him go off on Floyd in the 4th when Floyd was just letting Manny punch himself out and covering.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> Anyone that isn't a clown can clearly see the evidence from other athletes and people that the injury was likely_* in no way significant enough to impact*_ Manny significantly. He just would not be able to use his arm/shoulder in the manner he did if it was as significant as many are being led to believe.
> 
> In all normal world likelihood, the shoulder being 100% would not have made one bit of difference because A) Pac could barely hit Floyd with either hand B) Pac hit Floyd with a straight left and didn't even buckle him. To think he would have somehow pummeled Floyd with his right is just silly. Especially when we saw him go off on Floyd in the 4th when Floyd was just letting Manny punch himself out and covering.


arent you the guy who said that paqs rotator cuff injury was at best "moderate," without ever even examining his mri results , after dr elattrache said that it was a "significant tear" that would require a significant surgery?

you having zero formal medical education?

i mean, who the fuk makes a medical determination regarding torn tendons without evaluating a mri? thats like like a "clown" on the street looking at a skin mole and saying that someone has skin cancer and needs immediate chemo therapy.

regardless,

why did robert guerrero cancel his fight with marcos maidaina when he had a partial tear in his rotator cuff if said injury would be "in no way significant enough to impact" his performance?

why did beranrd hopkins decide to quit fighting against chad dawson with a shoulder injury that did not require surgery?

and whose arguing here?

until robert guerreros orthopedic doctor can state that he has "researched plenty" on the topic of torn rotator cuff injuries then well have to take bballchump11s word as gospel and shoot everyone who thinks otherwise


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## Knox Harrington (Apr 7, 2014)

El-Terrible said:


> Has it occurred to you that the gameplan may have changed to boxing/counterpunch because they couldn't get the Toradol so were wary of going full tilt for fear of aggravating the shoulder early in the fight? No way that was Freddie Roach's intention - and in fact the first time he did go full tilt, in round 4, he won the round AND injured the shoulder...
> 
> Mayweather may have won anyway, I don't know for sure, but I find it amusing no Floyd fan can even consider it remotely possible that a torn rotator cuff 3 weeks out, without any anti-inflammatory allowed, may have hindered his performance or gameplan in any way. It's laughable


Hey dumbass, he had his shoulder loaded up with anesthetics, NSAID's and corticosteroids. If Celestone isn't an anti inflammatory, I don't know what is.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

quincy k said:


> arent you the guy who said that paqs rotator cuff injury was at best "moderate," without ever even examining his mri results , after dr elattrache said that it was a "significant tear" that would require a significant surgery?
> 
> you having zero formal medical education?
> 
> ...


eh, I never made any type of diagnosis without an MRI, but I did say that one can pretty easily confirm how bad of a tear it was by seeing functionality of the shoulder in question. You have no idea of what medical credentials or experience I might have, so I won't even touch that. If you would take just a little time to educate yourself and learn a little, you could clearly find the answer to your apparent ignorance on this subject matter. Unfortunately, you'd rather choose to sit and banter about nonsense that any athlete who's gone through similar injuries could confirm why you sound like a complete idiot.


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Wrong again. Round 4 opened up for Pac because he sat back and caught Floyd with a counter left.
> 
> Maybe you should think about taking some time off. *Come back when Manny's shoulder heals*.


:lol:


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> eh, I never made any type of diagnosis without an MRI, but I did say that one can pretty easily confirm how bad of a tear it was by seeing functionality of the shoulder in question. You have no idea of what medical credentials or experience I might have, so I won't even touch that. If you would take just a little time to educate yourself and learn a little, you could clearly find the answer to your apparent ignorance on this subject matter. Unfortunately, you'd rather choose to sit and banter about nonsense that any athlete who's gone through similar injuries could confirm why you sound like a complete idiot.


can you please explain why robert guerrero, who suffered a "partial tear" of his rotator cuff while training for his fight with marcos maidaina, was advised by Stanford-educated Dr Michael Gillingham, who has been in practice for 44 years, to cancel the fight and have surgery?

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/6893137/robert-guerrero-shoulder-surgery-four-months

http://health.usnews.com/doctors/michael-dillingham-23596

if, _*by your definition*_, paqs "significant tear," a "full thickness tear," in his rotator cuff as defined by dr elattrache was _*"in no way significant enough to impact" *__the performance of manny pacqioao then why __would a "partial tear" be significant enough for a stanford-educated doctor to advise robert guerrero to cancel his fight with marcos maidaina presumably because he felt the exact opposite?

_


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> can you please explain why robert guerrero, who suffered a "partial tear" of his rotator cuff while training for his fight with marcos maidaina, was advised by Stanford-educated Dr Michael Gillingham, who has been in practice for 44 years, to cancel the fight and have surgery?
> 
> http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/6893137/robert-guerrero-shoulder-surgery-four-months
> 
> ...


You can rest and rehab your shoulder to the point where you can still use it and compete with it depsite having a tear in it. Sometimes a doctor will recommend that you get surgery though in order to prevent any recurring problems and the heal the surgery 100%

My shoulder has been fucked for year, but I can still use it fine and I throw plenty of left hooks. Shit it's actually aching right now from me sleeping on it last night


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> Come on, man. Again, serious is relative. _*If he had a serious rotator cuff injury that was a high grade 2 or 3 tear,*_ it is likely he would not have near the mobility he had in his arm. They used the word significant and that does not correlate to either of those grading of injury.







"_*full thickness tear*_, _*significant tear, rather large*_"

http://www.enterprisenews.com/article/20111004/NEWS/310049968

Another important distinction is the difference between a full thickness tear and a partial thickness tear. When the rotator cuff tendon attaches to the bone, it attaches not at just one point but over an area about as long and as wide as one of your fingers. The length of a tear is variable and has nothing to do with the term partial or full thickness. These terms indicate the width of the tendon that is torn off of the bone. _*In full thickness tears, the full width of the tendon is torn off of the bone.*_ In partial thickness tears, some of the width of the tendon is torn off of the bone: low grade partial tears involve less than 50 percent of the width while in _*high grade tears more than 50 percent is torn.*_



if what paq suffered was not a high grade 2 or 3 tear in your opinion then what would be?

and im still confused on why robert guerrero cancelled his fight with maidaina to have shoulder surgery for something as small as a "partial tear" in his rotator cuff if paqs "full thickness tear" and a "significant tear," was, as you say, an

_*injury was likely in no way significant enough to impact Manny significantly

*_


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

quincy k said:


> "_*full thickness tear*_, _*significant tear, rather large*_"
> 
> http://www.enterprisenews.com/article/20111004/NEWS/310049968
> 
> ...


The video support all I have been saying. You have to understand that severity is not only based on actual anatomical mass distortion ( the tear size, depth), but with functionality distortion considered also. He clearly eliminates an anatomical grade 3 tear because that's a full rupture and varies from "hanging on by a thread" and fully detached. So that puts us in a stage 2 tear. Some further factors to consider in the grading assessment:

1. Though he says it was a full thickness tear, he never states an actual length. This is relevant because the cuff muscles tend to be wider and not very thick at the points of bone attachment, so the length of the tear is likely more relevant than the depth or just as. My guess why it wasn't mentioned is because it was likely a relatively deep, but narrow tear.

2. He clearly states that people respond to various grades of tears differently. Pac's pain threshold is that of an elite boxer, so functionality is what really will clarify the grading in level 2 tears. Pac had no apparent functional distortions, so that tells you that it would be below or at the middle of a grade 2 condition.

I think it's safe to say Pac had a low grade 2 tear, but without an MRI report that specifies actual sizes it's all subjective interpretation. I think dimensions aren't mentioned because severity was on the low end.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> The video support all I have been saying. You have to understand that severity is not only based on actual anatomical mass distortion ( the tear size, depth), but with functionality distortion considered also. _*He clearly eliminates an anatomical grade 3 tear because that's a full rupture and varies from "hanging on by a thread" and fully detached.*_ So that puts us in a stage 2 tear. Some further factors to consider in the grading assessment:
> 
> 1. Though he says it was a full thickness tear, he never states an actual length. This is relevant because the cuff muscles tend to be wider and not very thick at the points of bone attachment, so the length of the tear is likely more relevant than the depth or just as. My guess why it wasn't mentioned is because it was likely a relatively deep, but narrow tear.
> 
> ...


support?

im thinking more on the lines of refute

in the video dr elattache said that there was between one and a half tendons torn...one being completely torn, one half torn and being described as a "full thickness tear."

it appears that the tendon was not "hanging on by a thread" as you say but, by definition, the full width of the tendon was torn off the bone.

_*how does one conclude that he clearly eliminates a stage 3 when it appears to confirm it? 
*_

http://www.enterprisenews.com/article/20111004/NEWS/310049968

_*In full thickness tears, the full width of the tendon is torn off of the bone.* In partial thickness tears, some of the width of the tendon is torn off of the bone: low grade partial tears involve less than 50 percent of the width while in *high grade tears more than 50 percent is torn.

*_perhaps you were confused when you watched the video

seems to me that he made it pretty clear that one of paqs tendons was completely torn and "fully detached."


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> The video support all I have been saying. You have to understand that severity is not only based on actual anatomical mass distortion ( the tear size, depth), but with functionality distortion considered also. He clearly eliminates an anatomical grade 3 tear because that's a full rupture and varies from "hanging on by a thread" and fully detached. So that puts us in a stage 2 tear. Some further factors to consider in the grading assessment:
> 
> 1. Though he says it was a full thickness tear, he never states an actual length. This is relevant because the cuff muscles tend to be wider and not very thick at the points of bone attachment, so the length of the tear is likely more relevant than the depth or just as. My guess why it wasn't mentioned is because it was likely a relatively deep, but narrow tear.
> 
> ...


can you please explain why a stanford educated doctor with 44 years of experience would recommend that robert guerrero cancel his fight with marcos maidaina and have shoulder surgery if guerrero only suffered a "partial tear" of his rotator cuff as opposed to a "significant tear" and a "full thickness tear" that paq suffered?

you said that regarding paqs rotator cuff that "_*the injury was likely in no way significant enough to impact*_" paqs performance then by all means guerreros shouldve had absolutely zero effect his being the lessor of severity


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

http://www.howardluksmd.com/shoulder-faq/how-do-i-know-if-i-have-a-full-thickness-rotator-cuff-tear/

The rotator cuff muscles control the motion and the overall strength of the shoulder. Small tears do not produce shoulder weakness, however,_* large or massive tears can produce very significant shoulder weakness*_.







_"__*full thickness tear*, *significant tear, rather large*"

_


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

:lol:


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## Slick Ric (Apr 7, 2015)

Pacquiao and a few of his stans are really trying to play up this lame excuse after the fact, but if his shoulder was fucked he wouldn't have been able to throw punches with that arm, he would have been clearly favoring it during the fight and he wouldn't have been raising his arms like 10x after the fight as if he came anywhere close to actually winning, so if the shoulder had any effect on the actual fight it was negligible at worst. He just got outboxed by a far superior boxer. If Mayweather should be so kind as to gift him an undeserved rematch next year, what excuse will you have when he gets outboxed and beaten again?


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## Specktah5Fiddy (Jun 9, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> :lol:


You just beat me to this. I was going through the previous pages to see if it was already posted. People who haven't had the injury won't understand why we think this way. I dont care how tough he is he would have been showing obvious signs of the injury in the fight with a "significant tear"


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Specktah5Fiddy said:


> You just beat me to this. I was going through the previous pages to see if it was already posted. People who haven't had the injury won't understand why we think this way. I dont care how tough he is he would have been showing obvious signs of the injury in the fight with a "significant tear"


Exactly, it has nothing to do with pain threshold or anything. If your shoulder is that bad, you will show signs. you'll also do whatever you can to protect it. You move it a certain way and you'll feel that sharp pain that stops you in your tracks.


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## Specktah5Fiddy (Jun 9, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Exactly, it has nothing to do with pain threshold or anything. If your shoulder is that bad, you will show signs. you'll also do whatever you can to protect it. You move it a certain way and you'll feel that sharp pain that stops you in your tracks.


You would think they would have released the MRI images by now or the internal photographs they take inside the shoulder during the surgery of the tears and the repairs. Or wheres the MRI he got after the De La Hoya fight when he first tore it?


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

He had surgery, deal with it


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Specktah5Fiddy said:


> You would think they would have released the MRI images by now or the internal photographs they take inside the shoulder during the surgery of the tears and the repairs. Or wheres the MRI he got after the De La Hoya fight when he first tore it?


foreal man. I just made this post on that troll forum, and thought it'd be good to post here also:

I feel like I'm going over Elementary stuff here. Pacquiao's right shoulder had nothing to do with him moving his feet, or him feinting. Pacquiao used to rely solely on his left hand. Watch early Pacquiao, all he throws is left hands, but he still had a high workrate.

It's also common knowledge that Pacquiao's output goes down when he faces counterpunchers and guys with movement. Of course it'd go down vs the guy with the best movement and best counterpunching. To quote Mayweather after the fight - "The only times he got off on me was when I stood still"

None of this has anything to do with Pacquiao's shoulder. When my left rotator cuff was very injured, I used to shadow box and throw a lot of jab feints with my left hand followed by my right. Pacquiao could have at least down that. What happened to Pacquiao feint-feint-left hand? Was he afraid of being timed?


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

quincy k said:


> support?
> 
> im thinking more on the lines of refute
> 
> ...


Like I said, he never said it was torn off the bone and full thickness tear does not mean it's completely severed. 
http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=a00064

Like I said, without an MRI report indicating size of injury, there is no way to definitively know the actual impact on structure.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

http://ontheropesboxing.com/roger-m...y-also-with-austin-trout-ray-mancini-otr-235/

Roger - "If Floyd fought Paqcuiao with good hands he would stop him. I know his hands were hurt because I trained him... Floyd's hands were hurting everyday"


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> http://ontheropesboxing.com/roger-m...y-also-with-austin-trout-ray-mancini-otr-235/
> 
> Roger - "If Floyd fought Paqcuiao with good hands he would stop him. I know his hands were hurt because I trained him... Floyd's hands were hurting everyday"


Lol, just because 1 trainer won, they get a free pass to talk shit..

Give Floyd his lidocaine and PAC his PEDS..

Shouldn't have been an issue in the first place


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> Like I said, he never said it was torn off the bone and full thickness tear does not mean it's completely severed.
> http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=a00064
> 
> Like I said, without an MRI report indicating size of injury, there is no way to definitively know the actual impact on structure.


from your above reference


*Partial Tear.* This type of tear damages the soft tissue, but does not completely sever it.
*Full-Thickness Tear. This type of tear is also called a complete tear.* _*It splits the soft tissue into two pieces. *_In many cases, tendons tear off where they attach to the head of the humerus. With a full-thickness tear, there is basically a hole in the tendon.

why would we need to see the mri if dr elattrache already determined that paqs torn rotator cuff was a "_*full thickness tear*_," which by your above reference has been defined as a "_*complete tear,*_" that "_*splits the soft tissue into two pieces*_" which would define as being "severed."

http://www.philstar.com/sports/2015/05/14/1454562/doc-warns-pacquiao-retear

But Dr. Reyes offered a word of caution. â€œThe therapy period depends on the severity and degree of injury,â€ he said. â€œFrom what I know,_* Manny suffered a full thickness*_ _*tear, meaning a complete tear of the rotator cuff with the highest degree of severity. The muscle was detached from the bone.â€*_

what you are suggesting is seeing a guys foot cut off and then needing to see a mri to confirm it. 

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/rotator-cuff-repair

V_*ery large tears [greater than *__*2 in. (5 cm)*__* or involving more than one rotator cuff tendon] *_

https://www.shoulderdoc.co.uk/article/1456

*Cofield Classification of Rotator Cuff Tears (Cofield 1982)*
Cofield, Surg Gynec Obstet, 154(5): 667-672, 1982Small < 1cm
Medium 1-3 cm
Large 3-5 cm
Massive >5cm

Grade 1- Tear < 1cm after debridement
Grade 2 â€" tear 1-3 cm after debridement
Grade 3- < 5 cms
Grade 4- Global tear, no cuff left

C1 - Small complete tear, pinhole sized
C2 - _*Moderate tear <2cm of only one tendon without retraction*_
C3 - _*Large complete tear with an entire tendon *_with minimal retraction usually 3-4 cm
C4 - Massive rotator cuff tear involving 2 or more rotator cuff tendons with associated retraction and scarring of the remaining tendon.

since paq was confirmed to have _*"one and a half tears*_" of the four tendons basic elementary school math would put that at two tears which would eliminate a grade 2 tear, which you have incorrectly presumed pacs injury to be, since a grade 2 tear only involves one tendon and described as "moderate" as opposed to "significant," "rather large," "full thickness tear," and "with the highest degree of severity."

so now that it has been determined, by medical definition and by doctor testimony, that paq suffered a grade 3 tear as to what you incorrectly "arm-chair- internet-doctor" diagnosed as a "moderate" and grade 2 tear, can you please tell me why a stanford educated doctor with 44 years of experience would advise robert guerrero to cancel his fight with marcos maidaina to have shoulder surgery if he only suffered a "partial tear" of his rotator cuff since you believed that pacquioas far worse and severe tear, by your words, to be an

_*injury was likely in no way significant enough to impact Manny significantly*_


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

lmfao rofl

this complete failure thread somehow went from morons claiming that paq was "FAKING-Shoulder-Injury" to now the same morons claiming that paqs injury was not severe enough to possibly affect his performance after doctors have determined that paqs injury was to be considered the "_*highest degree of severity,*_" with a tendon completely "_*detached from the bone,*_" along with case history of a high profile fighter _*cancelling his fight *_after being diagnosed with the same, less severe injury from the advice of a stanford-educated doctor who had been practicing for over 44 years

you gotta be some kind of stupid


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## Slick Ric (Apr 7, 2015)

quincy k said:


> from your above reference
> 
> 
> *Partial Tear.* This type of tear damages the soft tissue, but does not completely sever it.
> ...


You clearly don't have a clue WTF you're talking about. Dillyyo already explained that the length of the tear is an important factor in determining the severity of it, and the length of the tear was not disclosed. For all we know he could have had a "full thickness tear" that was only 1/8" long, which would have caused some minor discomfort at worst and could also be accurately described as a partial tear (as could any tear that doesn't go the entire LENGTH of the rotator cuff). One thing we do know for a fact is that his rotator cuff wasn't completely torn because that would make it physically impossible for him to throw punches or even raise his arm. If you're going to try to debate something with someone, you should at least have some basic understanding of what you're talking about. Otherwise just STFU.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

quincyk still writing thesis papers...


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

No guys, Pacquiao's shoulder was completely torn. It's a miracle that he could even raise his arms :lol:


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Cormega said:


> You clearly don't have a clue WTF you're talking about._* Dillyyo already explained that the length of the tear is an important factor in determining the severity of it,*_ and the length of the tear was not disclosed. For all we know he could have had a "full thickness tear" that was only 1/8" long, which would have caused some minor discomfort at worst and could also be accurately described as a partial tear (as could any tear that doesn't go the entire LENGTH of the rotator cuff). One thing we do know for a fact is that his rotator cuff wasn't completely torn because that would make it physically impossible for him to throw punches or even raise his arm. If you're going to try to debate something with someone, you should at least have some basic understanding of what you're talking about. Otherwise just STFU.


dillyo explained? who the fuk is dillyo?

lmfao

well how about we get a _*real*_ doctor explaining paqs injury as opposed to an arm-chair-internet doctor on an internet forum?

http://www.philstar.com/sports/2015/05/14/1454562/doc-warns-pacquiao-retear
_*
But Dr. Reyes offered a word of caution. â€œThe therapy period depends on the severity and degree of injury,â€ he said. â€œFrom what I know, Manny suffered a full thickness tear, meaning a complete tear of the rotator cuff with the highest degree of severity. The muscle was detached from the bone.â€*_

good grief youre a moron. what do you not understand that the injury paq suffered as being described as a _*complete tear of the rotator cuff*_ _*with the highest degree of severity?

*_http://www.behealthyspringfield.com/blogs/columns/rotator-cuff-tears-does-my-shoulder-need-surgery

Another important distinction is the difference between a full thickness tear and a partial thickness tear. When the rotator cuff tendon attaches to the bone, it attaches not at just one point but over an area about as long and as wide as one of your fingers. _*The length of a tear is variable and has nothing to do with the term partial or full thickness.*_ These terms indicate the width of the tendon that is torn off of the bone. _* In full thickness tears, the full width of the tendon is torn off of the bone*_.  In partial thickness tears, some of the width of the tendon is torn off of the bone: low grade partial tears involve less than 50 percent of the width while in high grade tears more than 50 percent is torn.

now if you want to believe that the length of the tear is more important than the width of the tear, which has nothing to do with determining a "full thickness tear," a determination that is described as the "highest degree of severity when analyzing a rotator cuff injury" perhaps you may want to 


_*"at least have some basic understanding of what you're talking about. Otherwise just STFU."*_

_*lmfao dillyo said*_

for all we know dillyos a cashier at fuken target

good grief youre a moron, cormega


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> quincyk still writing thesis papers...


and still making you guys look like fools...

its almost too easy

by the way, can you explain why a stanford-educated doctor with 44 years of experience would advise robert guerrero to cancel his fight with marcos maidaina with what he diagnosed as a "partial tear" in his rotator cuff when paq had been diagnosed with a "significant tear" and "a full thickness tear" if as most of you believe felt that paqs more severe injury had have no effect on his performance?


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## Slick Ric (Apr 7, 2015)

quincy k said:


> dillyo explained? who the fuk is dillyo?
> 
> lmfao
> 
> ...


You still don't get it and at this point it's clear that you're just too stupid to grasp what you've been told, so we'll just agree to disagree. Nobody gives a shit about your pathetic excuses anyway. :bart


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## Slick Ric (Apr 7, 2015)

quincy k said:


> and still making you guys look like fools...


:rofl No, you're making yourself look like a delusional pactard who can't come to grips with the fact that Mayweather beat your hero easily without ever even having to come out of first gear. All the shit you morons have been talking for all these years and now all you're left with is a bunch of lame ass excuses.


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## Knox Harrington (Apr 7, 2014)

bballchump11 said:


> No guys, Pacquiao's shoulder was completely torn. It's a miracle that he could even raise his arms :lol:


He could raise his arm because God wanted him to win.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


>


Pacquiao is superman.. Feels no pain, even with a complete tear of the Rotator cuff with the highest degree of severity. :rofl

He HAS to be after throwing those rights in the 6th, not showing any signs of pain!









Then this beautiful combo in the 11th full of missed punches! His shoulder must be why he missed all those punches with *both* hands.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Cormega said:


> You still don't get it and at this point it's clear that you're just too stupid to grasp _*what you've been told,*_ so we'll just agree to disagree. Nobody gives a shit about your pathetic _*excuses*_ anyway. :bart


told by who?

dillyo?

so youre taking dillyos word as gospel as opposed to proven doctors in their profession as well as medical text definitions?

for the last time, stupid

http://www.philstar.com/sports/2015/05/14/1454562/doc-warns-pacquiao-retear

But Dr. Reyes offered a word of caution. â€œThe therapy period depends on the severity and degree of injury,â€ he said. _*â€œFrom what I know, Manny suffered a full thickness tear, meaning a complete tear of the rotator cuff with the highest degree of severity. The muscle was detached from the bone.â€*_

what do you not understand about the term "_*highest degree of severity*_" and "_*detached from the bone*_" that needs to be further explained to you?

yeah lets go with dillyos arm-chair-internet-dr determination of a "moderate" and "below or at grade 2 injury" when doctors and medical text definitions have determined otherwise

rofl lmfao you taking the word of some unknown person named dillyo on the internet over a doctors or medical text definitions.

like i said before, you gotta be some kind of stupid

and to make things perfectly clear i have never said that the injury was the reason the paq lost, only that you would have to be a complete moron to say 100 percent that the injury had no effect on paqs performance and complete moron to say that someone should be "shot" if they believed it to be so.


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## Slick Ric (Apr 7, 2015)

quincy k said:


> told by who?
> 
> dillyo?
> 
> ...


Your lame excuses don't interest me, hoe. Go try to sell that bullshit to someone else. Pacquiao lost. End of.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Cormega said:


> Your lame excuses don't interest me, hoe. Go try to sell that bullshit to someone else. Pacquiao lost. End of.


you just looked real dumb here to anyone with an iq over 80

rofl lmfao

you taking dillyos word over doctors and medical text

just dumb on so may different levels


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## Slick Ric (Apr 7, 2015)

quincy k said:


> you just looked real dumb here to anyone with an iq over 80
> 
> rofl lmfao
> 
> ...


I didn't take anyone's word, dipshit. I pointed out the fact that you weren't grasping what he was trying to explain to you, but like I said, you're a pactarded ignoramus, so you're just not going to, which is fine. Keep being a pactarded ignoramus. I don't care. Just don't expect me to listen to your pathetic excuses. Your hero lost and the fight wasn't close. Deal with it. :deal


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Cormega said:


> I didn't take anyone's word, dipshit. I pointed out the fact that_* you weren't grasping what he was trying to explain to you,*_ but like I said, you're a pactarded ignoramus, so you're just not going to, which is fine. Keep being a pactarded ignoramus. I don't care. Just don't expect me to listen to your pathetic excuses. Your hero lost and the fight wasn't close. Deal with it. :deal


what dillyo was trying to explain was the opposite of what medical text and medical doctors were saying

what do you not understand about that?

do you still believe paqs injury was "moderate" and a "lower grade 2" injury as dillyo claimed when doctors and medical text definitions are saying otherwise?

are you still that dumb after getting made to look like a fool?

and exactly who the fuk is dillyo?


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## Slick Ric (Apr 7, 2015)

quincy k said:


> what dillyo was trying to explain was the opposite of what medical text and medical doctors were saying


No, it wasn't. You just have a problem with reading comprehension. It doesn't matter, though. We can agree to disagree and you can carry on trying to convince everyone else that Pacquiao's shoulder was completely fucked. Good luck with that. :cheers


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Cormega said:


> No, it wasn't. You just have a problem with _*reading comprehension. *_It doesn't matter, though. We can agree to disagree and you can carry on trying to convince everyone else that Pacquiao's shoulder was completely fucked. Good luck with that. :cheers


the only person with a reading comprehension problem here is an idiot who takes the medical word of some unknown person on an anonymous internet forum over written medical text definitions and doctor evaluations

its as if you only read what dillyo wrote, took it as gospel, and ignored what the doctors determined as well as the medical text definitions

like i said...you gotta be some kind of stupid


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## Slick Ric (Apr 7, 2015)

quincy k said:


> the only person with a reading comprehension problem here is an idiot who takes the medical word of some unknown person on an anonymous internet forum over written medical text definitions and doctor evaluations
> 
> its as if you only read what dillyo wrote, took it as gospel, and ignored what the doctors determined as well as the medical text definitions
> 
> like i said...you gotta be some kind of stupid


Why are you still responding? Like I said, I'm not interested in your pathetic excuses and I'm not even bothering to read your idiotic posts at this point. Go try to sell that bullshit to someone else because I'm not buying.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Cormega said:


> Why are you still responding? Like I said, I'm not interested in your pathetic excuses and I'm not even bothering to read your idiotic posts at this point. Go try to sell that bullshit to someone else because I'm not buying.


so now im saying that paqs shoulder is the reason he lost? and im using it as an excuse?

when did i say that?

never, thats when.

so dont worry about buying because i was never selling it.

lmfao and the only idiotic posts here are from an idiot who takes the word of an anonymous poster over that of doctors and medical text definitions


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

quincy k said:


> from your above reference
> 
> 
> *Partial Tear.* This type of tear damages the soft tissue, but does not completely sever it.
> ...


Your interpretation of a full thickness tear means detachment from bone and I disagree. The source I sited did not say what you are implying. No where did the Dr say that the tendon(s) were detached. A full thickness tear can occur in a 2 cm sq area and occur say 5 cm in from where the tendon attaches to the bone.

You can site all of the sources that you want, but without the MRI report we don't know actual size of the tear and where or in which the tendons it occurred at. All your statements are speculation because the Dr did not state those facts.

All I know is if Filipino Pactards were so distraught that they felt they needed to stage an interview with the surgeon, perhaps some other Pactards can convince them to take a pic of the MRI report and post it. Not like there is anything confidential to hide and will clear up a lot of subjective speculation on this matter.


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

Specktah5Fiddy said:


> You would think they would have released the MRI images by now or the internal photographs they take inside the shoulder during the surgery of the tears and the repairs. Or wheres the MRI he got after the De La Hoya fight when he first tore it?


Most people aren't radiologist and won't know what the fvck they are looking at. The narrative part of the report is all we need to see.


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## Slick Ric (Apr 7, 2015)

Dillyyo said:


> Your interpretation of a full thickness tear means detachment from bone and I disagree. The source I sited did not say what you are implying. No where did the Dr say that the tendon(s) were detached. A full thickness tear can occur in a 2 cm sq area and occur say 5 cm in from where the tendon attaches to the bone.
> 
> You can site all of the sources that you want, but without the MRI report we don't know actual size of the tear and where or in which the tendons it occurred at. All your statements are speculation because the Dr did not state those facts.
> 
> All I know is if Filipino Pactards were so distraught that they felt they needed to stage an interview with the surgeon, perhaps some other Pactards can convince them to take a pic of the MRI report and post it. Not like there is anything confidential to hide and will clear up a lot of subjective speculation on this matter.


He's a dumbass, bro. He's not gonna get it, and even if he could, he won't because he doesn't want to change his pre-conceived opinion.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> Your interpretation of a full thickness tear means detachment from bone and I disagree. The source I sited did not say what you are implying._* No where did the Dr say that the tendon(s) were detached.*_ A full thickness tear can occur in a 2 cm sq area and occur say 5 cm in from where the tendon attaches to the bone.
> 
> You can site all of the sources that you want, but without the MRI report we don't know actual size of the tear and where or in which the tendons it occurred at. All your statements are speculation because the Dr did not state those facts.
> 
> _*All I know is if Filipino Pactards*_ were so distraught that they felt they needed to stage an interview with the surgeon, perhaps some other Pactards can convince them to take a pic of the MRI report and post it. Not like there is anything confidential to hide and will clear up a lot of subjective speculation on this matter.


what do "_*Filipino Pactards"*_ have to do with dr elattrache determining that _*manny pacquioa suffered a*_ _*full thickness tear*_?

and how in the world did you perversely construe dr elattraches medical diagnosis into a pactard thing?

http://www.enterprisenews.com/article/20111004/NEWS/310049968

_*In full thickness tears, the full width of the tendon is torn off of the bone.* In partial thickness tears, some of the width of the tendon is torn off of the bone: low grade partial tears involve less than 50 percent of the width while in *high grade tears more than 50 percent is torn.

*_what do you not understand that paqs_* tendon was torn off the bone when diagnosed as a "full thickness tear" *_by dr elatrrache?

http://www.philstar.com/sports/2015/05/14/1454562/doc-warns-pacquiao-retear

But Dr. Reyes offered a word of caution. â€œThe therapy period depends on the severity and degree of injury,â€ he said. â€œFrom what I know,_* Manny suffered a full thickness* *tear, meaning a complete tear of the rotator cuff with the highest degree of severity. The muscle was detached from the bone.â€

*_what do you not understand that a _*"full thickness tear"*_ is considered to be a _*complete tear of the rotator cuff with the highest degree of severity?

*_http://www.behealthyspringfield.com/blogs/columns/rotator-cuff-tears-does-my-shoulder-need-surgery

Another important distinction is the difference between a full thickness tear and a partial thickness tear. When the rotator cuff tendon attaches to the bone, it attaches not at just one point but over an area about as long and as wide as one of your fingers. _*The length of a tear is variable and has nothing to do with the term partial or full thickness.*_ These terms indicate the width of the tendon that is torn off of the bone. _*In full thickness tears, the full width of the tendon is torn off of the bone*_. In partial thickness tears, some of the width of the tendon is torn off of the bone: low grade partial tears involve less than 50 percent of the width while in high grade tears more than 50 percent is torn.

what do you not understand that the length of the tear has nothing to do with the definition of a "full thickness tear," what has been described as the "highest degree of severity" when discussing rotator cuff tears?

_*what do you not understand that dr elatracche, when stating that manny pacquioa has suffered a "full thickness tear," is by medical definition stating that pacquioa suffered a complete tendon tear from the bone?*_

for hopefully the last time,

http://www.ahni.com/Practices/indyshoulder/Common+Injuries/Rotator+Cuff+Tears.html

_*A partial thickness tear means that a portion of the tendon is torn on either the bottom (articular) or top (bursal) side of the tendon however some of the fibers are still intact. This is the equivalent to a braided rope with fraying or partial tearing but some of the strands remain intact. A full thickness tear, in contrast, indicates that the entire tendon and all its layers in that area have pulled away from the bone.*_

http://www.orthobullets.com/sports/3043/rotator-cuff-tears


*Cuff Tear Size*​ Small0-1 cmMedium1-3 cmLarge3-5 cmMassive_*> 5 cm (involves multiple tendons. In the European classification a massive tear is defined as involving 2 or more tendons)*_






_*"how many tendons were torn in this case?"

"in the area of one to one and a half tendons of the four tendons."*_

paq suffered _*2*_ torn tendons which by european classification is considered a _*"massive tear."*_


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Paulie is saying exactly what we've been saying

"I was told by a pro athlete that he couldn't even raise his arm with that same injury and Pacquiao is full of shit" :deal


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## El-Terrible (Jun 5, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Then this beautiful combo in the 11th full of missed punches! His shoulder must be why he missed all those punches with *both* hands.


What us hilarious about this GIF is it actually shows very clearly PAcquiao's injury. Look at his right arm when Floyd is on the ropes, he keeps his right arm completely by his side and only his left is throwing punches, it's so clear!!! The right elbow stays firmly by his side.

The denial on here is hilarious. I mean this shows without doubt his right arm is severely restricted! Anyone can see that


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

El-Terrible said:


> What us hilarious about this GIF is it actually shows very clearly PAcquiao's injury. Look at his right arm when Floyd is on the ropes, he keeps his right arm completely by his side and only his left is throwing punches, it's so clear!!! The right elbow stays firmly by his side.
> 
> The denial on here is hilarious. I mean this shows without doubt his right arm is severely restricted! Anyone can see that


Pac doesn't throw a classic right hook. His is a very wide, sweeping punch that requires a certain amount of distance to execute. He is clearly smothering himself there and is even flailing awkwardly with the left.

He's like a pitcher with a funky delivery and I'm sure that has contributed to whatever shoulder problems he's had.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

El-Terrible said:


> What us hilarious about this GIF is it actually shows very clearly PAcquiao's injury. Look at his right arm when Floyd is on the ropes, he keeps his right arm completely by his side and only his left is throwing punches, it's so clear!!! The right elbow stays firmly by his side.
> 
> The denial on here is hilarious. I mean this shows without doubt his right arm is severely restricted! Anyone can see that


the debate is not if paq suffered a _*"full thickness tear"*_ injury to his rotator cuff, defined as the most severe form of this type of injury, as only a complete _*dum fuk dum ass arm-chair-internet-wannabe-doctor and his minions *_would think otherwise after manny was diagnosed the severity of the injury by one of the top surgeons in the country.

the only debate here for logical people with iqs over 80 is exactly when paq suffered the injury and to what effect, if any, it had on his performance with floyd mayweather

and since no one will ever know there really is no debate regarding this.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Paulie is saying exactly what we've been saying
> 
> "I was told by a pro athlete that he couldn't even raise his arm with that same injury and Pacquiao is full of shit" :deal


james kirkland raising his right shoulder, which he suffered two tears that required surgery and that kept him out of the ring for over a year, after the knockdown and immediately after the fight with carlos molina



















http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/7767166/james-kirkland-recovering-successful-shoulder-surgery_*

Junior middleweight contender James Kirkland underwent successful arthroscopic surgery to repair two tears in his right shoulder on Monday, co-manager Michael Miller told ESPN.com.
Molina (19-5-2, 6 KOs) had dominated most of the fight, so the injury could certainly be an explanation for Kirkland's surprisingly poor performance. *_






jeff lacy raising his left arm, the same arm he suffered a rotator cuff injury in and had surgery immediately after the fight that kept him out of the ring for a year, after being pronounced the winner in the tyspko fight

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2686825_*
Jeff Lacy's career is in jeopardy after the former super middleweight titleholder suffered a torn rotator cuff in his left shoulder during last Saturday's majority decision victory against Vitali Tsypko.
Lacy's struggles against Tsypko -- whom many felt won the fight -- opened Lacy to questions about whether he had fully recovered from the beating Calzaghe gave him. Now, it is obvious that his shoulder injury had an impact on his performance.*_














you initially saying that paq was_* "FAKING shoulder injury," *_to saying that his injury was not "significant" after a doctor diagnosed it as such, to saying that it 100 percent had no effect on his performance and that anyone who thinks otherwise should be _*"shot"*_ ...

you gotta be some kind of fuken stupid to even continue posting on this thread.

http://www.howardluksmd.com/shoulder-faq/how-do-i-know-if-i-have-a-full-thickness-rotator-cuff-tear/

_*The rotator cuff muscles control the motion and the overall strength of the shoulder. *__*Small tears do not produce shoulder weakness, however*_, _*large or massive tears can produce very significant shoulder weakness*._


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

El-Terrible said:


> What us hilarious about this GIF is it actually shows very clearly PAcquiao's injury. Look at his right arm when Floyd is on the ropes, he keeps his right arm completely by his side and only his left is throwing punches, it's so clear!!! The right elbow stays firmly by his side.
> 
> The denial on here is hilarious. I mean this shows without doubt his right arm is severely restricted! Anyone can see that


Yeah he must have hurt his left too the way he was flailing away with it :lol:. Dude just couldn't hit Floyd often enough. He's smothering his own right man..


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

The blatant disregard for any type of critical thinking in this thread is indicative of the usual nonsense that is seen in such threads. For all of the Pactards that want to believe that Manny was severely compromised and would have been destructive if he wasn't, you should just stop debating about it and keep believing. It's not like we don't have a plethora of other "suspect" fights and events. 

-Pac was a midget who moved up in weight classes yet lost a belt on the scales, blamed a loss on cutting to much weight, was throwing on 14lbs oin fight night at 130.

-Pac requested CW for several fights, yet when EM wanted to rematch with a CW because he couldn't make weight, team Pac says no and proceeds to fight the guy who just got schooled by Raheem.

-Makes a plethora of excuses why he can't fight Floyd in 09' after his team said they had no issue with testing

-Says they won't fight Shane after he beats down Marg because he's to big, but jumps on Shane after he looks silly against Floyd. 

-Blames losing a fight against Floyd on his shoulder, but was getting schooled before the purported re-injury of the shoulder in the 4th rd. 

So, go ahead Pactards and keep hanging on your hero's nuts because as time goes by Manny's greatness will only become more tarnished as the whole story of his career will be seen for those to judge.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> The blatant disregard for any type of critical thinking in this thread is indicative of the usual nonsense that is seen in such threads. For all of the Pactards that want to believe that Manny was severely compromised and would have been destructive if he wasn't, you should just stop debating about it and keep believing. It's not like we don't have a plethora of other "suspect" fights and events.
> 
> -Pac was a midget who moved up in weight classes yet lost a belt on the scales, blamed a loss on cutting to much weight, was throwing on 14lbs oin fight night at 130.
> 
> ...


what does this all after to do with you coming here, acting as if youre some medical expert, erroneously claiming that paq suffered a "moderate" rotator cuff injury that

_*"would be below or at the middle of a grade 2 condition"*_

when by european definitions what paq was diagnosed with would be considered _*"massive," *_a level 4 and the worst diagnosis for a torn rotator cuff injury, and defined by american standards as _*a complete tear of the rotator cuff with the highest degree of severity, *_a level 3?

_sounds to me like youre trying to change your argument that paq faked his injury and that confirmed injury was not significant, which you *utterly failed *at, to now some sort of debate about "plethora of excuses," paq being a "midget," and "blames losing" which has absolutely nothing to do with if paq faked his shoulder injury and if the shoulder injury was significant.

perhaps you should start a different thread in reference to what you are attempting to do here(changing the subject matter) since everyone can see how you got utterly *wrecked *on this one_


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> james kirkland raising his right shoulder, which he suffered two tears that required surgery and that kept him out of the ring for over a year, after the knockdown and immediately after the fight with carlos molina
> 
> 
> 
> ...


see you do this with everybody quincyk, you post a bunch of spammish shit all over the board and then try to put words in people's mouths and hold them responsible for statements they never made atsch I never said he was faking his injury.

And those guys injuries were more obvious an apparent. Pacquiao's had his injury for years with no problem. Like Paulie said, all athletes, me included, have injuries and tears. Maybe when Pacquiao gets his shoulder healed, Floyd's hands will be healed up also


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> see you do this with everybody quincyk, you post a bunch of spammish shit all over the board _*and then try to put words in people's mouths and hold them responsible for statements they never made*_ atsch I never said he was_* faking his injury. *_
> 
> And those guys injuries were more obvious an apparent. Pacquiao's had his injury for years with no problem. Like Paulie said, all athletes, me included, have injuries and tears. Maybe when Pacquiao gets his shoulder healed, Floyd's hands will be healed up also


really?

do you have any examples where someone else has said that _*ive tried to put words in their mouths and hold them responsible for statements that they never made? *_ if so, please provide the link and appropriate thread

if you cant provide said example perhaps it is you trying putting words in people mouths


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I thought about going off on facebook to expose the "people's champ". _*These dumbass watch boxing once every 10 years and just believe what the media tells them. *_
> 
> _*This fakeass ho has made excuses for his losses because of his fucking socks.*_ His gloves, blood tests, cramps 4+ times, weight drainage, and his crappy work ethic.
> 
> ...


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

again, show me where I said he was faking his injury


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> again, show me where I said he was faking his injury


:rofl


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> :rofl


:lol: foreal, I have no idea how he interpreted that


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> :lol: foreal, I have no idea how he interpreted that


lets see,

youre posting on a thread titled "Pacquiao-FAKING-shoulder-injury," using the words "fakeass hoe," and "excuses" 
before dr ellatrache diagnosed pacqioauo with a "full thickness tear" rotator cuff injury and thats not you implying 
that pacqioua was "FAKING" his injury?

oh

okay


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

quincy k said:


> what does this all after to do with you coming here, acting as if youre some medical expert, erroneously claiming that paq suffered a "moderate" rotator cuff injury that
> 
> _*"would be below or at the middle of a grade 2 condition"*_
> 
> ...


You keep going on about people with an IQ of at least 80, yet it seems you wouldn't score far above that retard threshold yourself. It was ok arguing semantics with you for a bit, but now you are mentally fatiguing. Clearly you should apply as much effort getting a job and a woman in life as much as you do moronically searching and posting medical references that give a broad overview of the subject matters. Move along and revel in your man Pac's loss.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> You keep going on about people with an IQ of at least 80, yet it seems you wouldn't score far above that retard threshold yourself. It was ok arguing semantics with you for a bit, but now you are mentally fatiguing. Clearly you should apply as much effort getting a job and a woman in life as much as you do moronically searching and posting medical references that give a broad overview of the subject matters. Move along and revel in your man Pac's loss.


so now you are trying to turn this into a "getting a job" and "woman in life" thread since you failed at turning it into a dr elattache medical report "pactards are distraught" thread?

_*All I know is if Filipino Pactards were so distraught that they felt they needed to stage an interview with the surgeon*_

you came to the forum acting as if you were some medical authority on torn rotator cuff injuries trying to diminish the severity of paqs injury, got called out and embarrassed and thats pretty much the end of it.


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Paulie is saying exactly what we've been saying
> 
> "I was told by a pro athlete that he couldn't even raise his arm with that same injury and Pacquiao is full of shit" :deal


Pro athlete doesn't throw punches for a living


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

quincy k said:


> so now you are trying to turn this into a "getting a job" and "woman in life" thread since you failed at turning it into a dr elattache medical report "pactards are distraught" thread?
> 
> _*All I know is if Filipino Pactards were so distraught that they felt they needed to stage an interview with the surgeon*_
> 
> you came to the forum acting as if you were some medical authority on torn rotator cuff injuries trying to diminish the severity of paqs injury, got called out and embarrassed and thats pretty much the end of it.


No, I was on the forum before that. I tried to provide information as to assessing how bad the injury was and you decided to change it into I made definitive statements. You tried to take rather general statements by a Dr and specifically apply them even though there is no basis for it. You believe what you want and I will believe what I want to. Seems like I have at least other posters understanding what I was trying to say and you have yourself.

hopefully you can reach out from under Pac's sac and ask him and his team if they can post a pic of the MRI report narration. Then if the reports states what you have been trying to state this whole time, I will concede to you and even leave this forum, if you wish. Until then you are just a Pactard who refuses to use logical and rational common sense.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> No, I was on the forum before that. I tried to provide information as to assessing how bad the injury was and you decided to change it into I made definitive statements. You tried to take _*rather general statements*_ by a Dr and specifically apply them even though there is no basis for it. You believe what you want and I will believe what I want to. Seems like I have at least other posters understanding what I was trying to say and you have yourself.
> 
> hopefully you can reach out from under Pac's sac and ask him and his team if they can post a _*pic of the MRI report narration.*_ _*Then if the reports states what you have been trying to state this whole time,*_ I will concede to you and even leave this forum, if you wish. Until then you are just a Pactard who refuses to use logical and rational common sense.


wait a minute. are you now saying that dr elattraches medical diagnosis of a "full thickness tear" torn rotator cuff injury is a "general statement" in regards to a medical report?

it seems like a pretty definitive description regarding the severity of a torn rotator cuff injury.

lmfao, dr ellattrache has specifically stated on video that paq suffered a "_*full thickness tear*_" rotator cuff injury and you need to see the "mri report narration" to confirm it.?

as if a doctor is going to write something different on his signed medical report as opposed to what he says in a video when describing a patients injury?

this after performing a surgery?


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

quincy k said:


> wait a minute. are you now saying that dr elattraches medical diagnosis of a "full thickness tear" torn rotator cuff injury is a "general statement" in regards to a medical report?
> 
> it seems like a pretty definitive description regarding the severity of a torn rotator cuff injury.
> 
> ...


If you weren't such an obtuse tool you would know that MRI reports are written by the radiologist(s) doctors who review the MRI scans and stipulate physical anomalies or where injuries are in relation to relevant anatomical structures. The Dr's statements were clear in the type of injury, but he did not specifically mention where and what exactly was impacted, nor did compare the injury to the types of physical limitations one would endure. Knowing this type of information would allow one to infer what type of inhibitions the person would have, in regards to movement. It's like a Dr confirming someone has a lower leg non-displaced fracture. That tells us the type of break, but without knowing which bone (where) in the lower leg (tibia or fibula) one cannot tell if the person could be easily moving around or not since one is a weight bearing bone and the other is not.


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> Pro athlete doesn't throw punches for a living


LOL....so? Athletes use their arms for many things unless you think that somehow throwing punches somehow makes one more impervious to injury limitations.


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## victor879 (May 5, 2015)

Playing Devil's Advocate, a question for Pacquiao supporters: Why was there no mention of his shoulder between rounds? Nobody massaging it, nobody asking Manny "how is the shoulder holding up" "is your shoulder hurting" nothing.... Not a single statement made. At least not that I heard.

I also did not see Pacquiao grimace even once, or show any reaction that he was in some sort of physical pain that would affect his performance. Contrary to belief by some, Manny Pacquiao is not superhuman, and he will show signs of discomfort/pain just like anybody else would. I did not see ANY such signs during the bout. No shaking of the arm, no complaining about it in the corner, no facial expressions after throwing a punch to indicate pain, nothing.

Anybody else see or hear anything different? Seems really odd that nothing would be said during the bout.

Obviously the doctor confirmed the injury after the fight. That doesn't answer the question of how significant of an injury it was going into the fight. Only after Manny missed 81% of his punches was an injury confirmed.


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

victor879 said:


> Playing Devil's Advocate, a question for Pacquiao supporters: Why was there no mention of his shoulder between rounds? Nobody massaging it, nobody asking Manny "how is the shoulder holding up" "is your shoulder hurting" nothing.... Not a single statement made. At least not that I heard.
> 
> I also did not see Pacquiao grimace even once, or show any reaction that he was in some sort of physical pain that would affect his performance. Contrary to belief by some, Manny Pacquiao is not superhuman, and he will show signs of discomfort/pain just like anybody else would. I did not see ANY such signs during the bout. No shaking of the arm, no complaining about it in the corner, no facial expressions after throwing a punch to indicate pain, nothing.
> 
> ...


Doesn't matter. Pac's tendon was completely ripped off and he moved his arm in every possible plain simply by gods willing hand. He feels no pain because he is like no other boxer before him. He is the first shrimp of a man to climb 8 weight classes and win in all of them. He fights at WW currently, but he's so minuscule that he could fight at 130 in his next fight. He's the first and only boxer to ever climb so many weight classes and not only carry up punching power, but increase punching power and then precipitously have it disappear faster than a fart in the wind. Yes, Pacman is an anomaly like none we have ever seen before and I expect that if he ruptures his Achilles tendon in his next fight, we will not even notice a difference in his performance, unless he loses. Then we will informed that he had a ruptured Achilles tendon and it limited his movement from side to side, but he thinks he still won the fight. Praise be to god Jesus Christ.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> If you weren't such an obtuse tool you would know that MRI reports are written by the radiologist(s) doctors who review the MRI scans and stipulate physical anomalies or where injuries are in relation to relevant anatomical structures. The Dr's statements were clear in the type of injury, but he did not specifically mention where and what exactly was impacted, nor did compare the injury to the types of physical limitations one would endure. Knowing this type of information would allow one to infer what type of inhibitions the person would have, in regards to movement. It's like a Dr confirming someone has a lower leg non-displaced fracture. That tells us the type of break, but without knowing which bone (where) in the lower leg (tibia or fibula) one cannot tell if the person could be easily moving around or not since one is a weight bearing bone and the other is not.


why didnt this doctor have an issue with how dr ellattrache described paqs injury? seemed pretty content with the doctors diagnosis. no mention of the radiologist, stipulations, anomalies, anatomical stuctures...his comments appeared pretty straight-forward

http://www.philstar.com/sports/2015/05/14/1454562/doc-warns-pacquiao-retear

But Dr. Reyes offered a word of caution. â€œThe therapy period depends on the severity and degree of injury,â€ he said. â€œFrom what I know,_* Manny suffered a full thickness* *tear, meaning a complete tear of the rotator cuff with the highest degree of severity. The muscle was detached from the bone.â€
*_
in fact, why hasnt any doctor come out to question the severity of paqs injury?

since no doctor, or medical review board for that matter, has come out to question dr elattraches diagnosis and subsequent surgery on pacquioa that will sideline manny for up to one year, one might believe that the only person that would question the severity of paqs injury is none other than an _*"obtuse tool."*_


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

victor879 said:


> Playing Devil's Advocate, a question for Pacquiao supporters: Why was there no mention of his shoulder between rounds? Nobody massaging it, nobody asking Manny "how is the shoulder holding up" "is your shoulder hurting" nothing.... Not a single statement made. At least not that I heard.
> 
> I also did not see _*Pacquiao grimace even once, or show any reaction that he was in some sort of physical pain that would affect his performance.*_ Contrary to belief by some, Manny Pacquiao is not superhuman, and he will show signs of discomfort/pain just like anybody else would. _*I did not see ANY such signs during the bout.*_ No shaking of the arm, no complaining about it in the corner, no facial expressions after throwing a punch to indicate pain, nothing.
> 
> ...


pretty similar to what happened in the kirkland/molina fight.
http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/7767166/james-kirkland-recovering-successful-shoulder-surgery

_*Junior middleweight contender James Kirkland underwent successful arthroscopic surgery to repair two tears in his right shoulder on Monday, co-manager Michael Miller told ESPN.com.
Molina (19-5-2, 6 KOs) had dominated most of the fight, so the injury could certainly be an explanation for Kirkland's surprisingly poor performance.

*_


















perhaps paq suffered the "full thickness tear" in the last minute of the 12th round and thats the reason rationale people wont use the shoulder injury as an excuse.

paqs camp is claiming the fourth round but there is no way that anyone can, or will be able to, confirm that unless it is on the original mri that paq had before the fight

my guess is that he didnt have the "full thickness tear" rotator cuff injury going into the fight because no one would allow him to fight with what is believed, by the medical community and not some arm-chair internet doctor, to be one of the most severe types of rotator cuff injuries one could have.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> Doesn't matter. Pac's tendon was completely ripped off and he moved his arm in every possible plain simply by gods willing hand. He feels no pain because he is like no other boxer before him. He is the first shrimp of a man to climb 8 weight classes and win in all of them. He fights at WW currently, but he's so minuscule that he could fight at 130 in his next fight. He's the first and only boxer to ever climb so many weight classes and not only carry up punching power, but increase punching power and then precipitously have it disappear faster than a fart in the wind. Yes, Pacman is an anomaly like none we have ever seen before and I expect that if he ruptures his Achilles tendon in his next fight, we will not even notice a difference in his performance, unless he loses. Then we will informed that he had a ruptured Achilles tendon and it limited his movement from side to side, but he thinks he still won the fight. Praise be to god Jesus Christ.


you appear to exhibit a lot of hate in this post

almost an irrational type of hate since you dont know paq, will never know paq and he being a person that has zero effect on your life

damn, i feel sorry for your girlfriend or wife if they were to forget to take out the trash or something


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

quincy k said:


> you appear to exhibit a lot of hate in this post
> 
> almost an irrational type of hate since you dont know paq, will never know paq and he being a person that has zero effect on your life
> 
> damn, i feel sorry for your girlfriend or wife if they were to forget to take out the trash or something


No hate, just keeping it real. I have always been a Pac supporter, but the Pactards blatant disregard for facts over the years and their incessant denial of the reality of things has gotten tiresome. I defended him in the sham of a win they gave Tim B. and I always supported the thought that Pac was always just bigger than most gave him credit for and that's why his power was carried up. But, to many things do not ad up and go against all other trends in the 100+ year history of this game. That, in conjunction with his sore loser mentality has just made the retarded even more retarded and there has to come a point where retards are just all let go and allowed to jump off the cliff.

You want to fight about Pac and his injury then stick your head up your azz and fight for air. :happy


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Battleground has moved from the negotiating table to the operating room and quincy k is still carrying the flag.


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## victor879 (May 5, 2015)

quincy k said:


> pretty similar to what happened in the kirkland/molina fight.
> http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/7767166/james-kirkland-recovering-successful-shoulder-surgery
> 
> _*Junior middleweight contender James Kirkland underwent successful arthroscopic surgery to repair two tears in his right shoulder on Monday, co-manager Michael Miller told ESPN.com.
> ...


Kind of what I was thinking as well. Seems more likely that he had a nagging shoulder injury (many of us in our 30s can attest to wear and tear issues) and has been working through it for some time. This injury was likely made worse during the fight, and I would think missing 81% of his punches wouldn't help his shoulder.

As you accurately pointed out: the MRI only reveals damage "after" the fight. Not prior or even during. We have no idea "when and where" this injury really occurred. Shoot, for all we know Pac's adrenaline was pumping so much he didn't even notice his shoulder hurt till after the bout. This whole situation stinks to high heaven and I'm very disappointed Arum, Pacquiao, and the rest of that "team" had to put a black eye on that event with all this controversy over this shoulder.

Add on to the fact Manny is continuing this "I really won the fight, I was robbed" lunacy... My word. Such a circus.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Battleground has moved from the negotiating table to the operating room and quincy k is still carrying the flag.


the battle in the "battleground" was won two or three pages ago

i was just pouring salt in wounds the last four or five posts

you being an educated person, you wisely stayed out of what ended up being two or three guys here taking knives to a gun fight


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

this idiot is still here in trying to save Pacquaio :lol:


bama


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

quincy k said:


> the battle in the "battleground" was won two or three pages ago
> 
> i was just pouring salt in wounds the last four or five posts
> 
> you being an educated person, you wisely stayed out of what ended up being two or three guys here taking knives to a gun fight


It's done.

History doesn't care about supposed injuries. The record books will forever show that Manny Pacquiao was challenged and defeated by a fighter that was superior to him. His energy decreased with every counter.

Manny made the excuse because he was too scared and ashamed to defend his poor effort in any other way.

Live with the shock, bottled, in silence.

Goodbye, quincy k. Never do spam again.

-Son Goku.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

browsing said:


> this idiot is still here in trying to save Pacquaio :lol:
> 
> bama


http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?65153-Pacquiao-FAKING-Shoulder-Injury/page9

good grief you are a sad case. its like every four days...you realize that you have no life and try to find one

on the internet no less

just go away

youre embarrassing


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> It's done.
> 
> History doesn't care about supposed injuries. The record books will forever show that Manny Pacquiao was challenged and defeated by a fighter that was superior to him. His energy decreased with every counter.
> 
> ...


no cans of spam here, steviebruno

just cans of flomo whoop-ass


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## BoxingGenius27 (Jun 8, 2013)

quincy k said:


> why didnt this doctor have an issue with how dr ellattrache described paqs injury? seemed pretty content with the doctors diagnosis. no mention of the radiologist, stipulations, anomalies, anatomical stuctures...his comments appeared pretty straight-forward
> 
> http://www.philstar.com/sports/2015/05/14/1454562/doc-warns-pacquiao-retear
> 
> ...





quincy k said:


> what does this all after to do with you coming here, acting as if youre some medical expert, erroneously claiming that paq suffered a "moderate" rotator cuff injury that
> 
> _*"would be below or at the middle of a grade 2 condition"*_
> 
> ...


http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=677943

*"Arum: Pacquiao's Shoulder Was Fine Going Into 5/2"*


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

BoxingGenius27 said:


> http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=677943
> 
> *"Arum: Pacquiao's Shoulder Was Fine Going Into 5/2"*


Lol, you think Bob Arum was gonna sabotage the fight of the year?


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

BoxingGenius27 said:


> http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=677943
> 
> *"Arum: Pacquiao's Shoulder Was Fine Going Into 5/2"*


and sometime during the fight, or perhaps up until the moment paq took his mri with dr elattrache as there is no proof when the injury actually occured, paq suffered a full thickness tear in one tendon and a partial tendon tear in another damaging two torn tendons out of four which by european definitions would be considered "_*massive*_" and by US definition would be considered a level 3 "_*with the highest degree of severity.*_"

and any idiot who says that there is 100 percent no way that the injury occurred during the fight and that said injury 100 percent would have no effect on paqs performance if it did occur during the fight should be shot for being a complete dum fuk

http://www.orthobullets.com/sports/3043/rotator-cuff-tears


*Cuff Tear Size*​ Small0-1 cmMedium1-3 cmLarge3-5 cmMassive_*> 5 cm (involves multiple tendons. In the European classification a massive tear is defined as involving 2 or more tendons)*_

http://www.howardluksmd.com/shoulder-faq/how-do-i-know-if-i-have-a-full-thickness-rotator-cuff-tear/

_*The rotator cuff muscles control the motion and the overall strength of the shoulder. **Small tears do not produce shoulder weakness, however*, *large or massive tears can produce very significant shoulder weakness*.

_


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> Lol, you think Bob Arum was gonna sabotage the fight of the year?


If his shoulder hurt that bad, then he wouldn't wing those shots that fast and powerful. He would've grim in pain. I guess Pac got an ATG poker face.


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## Plutus (May 6, 2015)

This thread is too long for me to read it all but has anyone asked why they requested the shot before the fight if his shoulder was fine going into the bout?


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## BoxingGenius27 (Jun 8, 2013)

quincy k said:


> and sometime during the fight, or perhaps up until the moment paq took his mri with dr elattrache as there is no proof when the injury actually occured, paq suffered a full thickness tear in one tendon and a partial tendon tear in another damaging two torn tendons out of four which by european definitions would be considered "_*massive*_" and by US definition would be considered a level 3 "_*with the highest degree of severity.*_"
> 
> and any idiot who says that there is 100 percent no way that the injury occurred during the fight and that said injury 100 percent would have no effect on paqs performance if it did occur during the fight should be shot for being a complete dum fuk
> 
> ...


Prove to me he didn't suffer the injury with the last right hook he threw in the 12th round?


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

BoxingGenius27 said:


> Prove to me he didn't suffer the injury with the last right hook he threw in the 12th round?


what do you not understand when i said,
_*
"and sometime during the fight, or perhaps up until the moment paq took his mri with dr elattrache as there is no proof when the injury actually occured*,*"*

_there is no proof when the _*full thickness tear*_ occurred but you would have to be a fuken moron to say that there is 100 percent certainty that paq did not suffer the injury in the fourth round as he so claims and that if said injury did occur that it 100 percent would not have had an effect on his performance as some idiots here have so proclaimed.

it appears that you just read what you want to read as opposed to reading what has been written


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## BoxingGenius27 (Jun 8, 2013)

quincy k said:


> what do you not understand when i said,
> _*
> "and sometime during the fight, or perhaps up until the moment paq took his mri with dr elattrache as there is no proof when the injury actually occured*,*"*
> 
> ...


I know what I wrote and am fully aware of what I read. Forget hearsay, let's talk facts:

Pacquiao entered the fight 100% injury free and we don't know exactly when the injury occurred. Could've been as early as the 4th or as late as the 12th... No one knows exactly.

Mayweather won 118-110. 116-112. 116-112

Let's stick to the facts


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

BoxingGenius27 said:


> I know what I wrote and am fully aware of what I read. Forget hearsay, let's talk facts:
> 
> Pacquiao entered the fight 100% injury free and we don't know exactly when the injury occurred. Could've been as early as the 4th or as late as the 12th... No one knows exactly.
> 
> ...


Let's stick to facts, PAC wasn't even knocked or hurt


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## PIRA (Jun 6, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> Let's stick to facts, PAC wasn't even knocked or hurt


Looked a bit marked up to me and Mayweather not a scratch.


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