# What type of fighter would beat Lomachenko?



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

What type of fighter gives Nomaschenko problems? In this scenario both are prime and neither has a significant size advantage. What attributes would they need to have, which style, what would they have to do?

You can name real life examples or just describe a type of fighter.

I'm not trying to nut hug or discredit Loma so fuck off with snarky comments. I just think it'd be interesting to get an idea of what the board thinks.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Aggressive fighter that can walk through his pitty pat punches and targets his body. Jose Ramirez did a lot of this in the amateurs.


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Elite educated pressure fighter/swarmer.


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## UK fight fan (Apr 22, 2016)

Controversially- and I defiantly wouldn't be rooting for him- I think the 130lb version of Mayweather was equally as phenomenal, was huge at the weight, could take a shot, let his hands go way more down there than he did when he moved up, and was very good and bending the rules without breaking them. I think he'd win a close decision.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Fast hands, Fast reflexes, One-punch power.

A fighter that can take advantage of any small mistake Loma might make, defensively, and then make that count.

Gervonta Davis gets my vote for the most likely to succeed.


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## Thomas Crewz (Jul 23, 2013)

Echoing what others have said, the Henry Armstrong mould fighter. 

There were a lot of reasons why Salido beat Loma, second fight, weight, fouls etc. But one that stood out was his reluctance to set his feet and punch with power in the face of an aggressive opponent.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

FLASH ELORDE!!!


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Mayweather type of fighter. Rangy, accurated and educated jab, tight defense with an ability to adapt.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

It's got to be some sort of unorthodox-styled spoiler who can fight dirty but who also has fast reflexes and a granite mentality. The more text-book, technical and purely skilled the opponent becomes the more they're tailor made for Loma.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> It's got to be some sort of unorthodox-styled spoiler who can fight dirty but who also has fast reflexes and a granite mentality. *The more text-book, technical and purely skilled the opponent becomes the more they're tailor made for Loma.*


^ Good Point.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Elite educated pressure fighter/swarmer.


Preferably awkward and with irresistible eyebrows


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## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Someone like Azumah Nelson i guess.

Smart pressure fighter who can take a punch. I'm just not sure if he is quick enough.


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## rossco (Jun 9, 2013)




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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

A prime Tyson. :lol:


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## Thomas Crewz (Jul 23, 2013)

rossco said:


>


Errol Spence nips #pedcheat


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## rossco (Jun 9, 2013)

Thomas Crewz said:


> Errol Spence nips #pedcheat


I need to start paying more attention to boxers nipples.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

UK fight fan said:


> Controversially- and I defiantly wouldn't be rooting for him- I think the 130lb version of Mayweather was equally as phenomenal, was huge at the weight, could take a shot, let his hands go way more down there than he did when he moved up, and was very good and bending the rules without breaking them. I think he'd win a close decision.





turbotime said:


> Mayweather type of fighter. Rangy, accurated and educated jab, tight defense with an ability to adapt.


I get the elite pressure/swarmer posts, but how would a Floyd type fighter win?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I get the elite pressure/swarmer posts, but how would a Floyd type fighter win?


because Floyd is better


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Gun to my head, I am not favouring anyone over 130 Floyd. Supernatural talent. I think he's in that exclusive group of H2H monsters, like Jones at 168lbs, Hearns at 147lbs, or Bellew at Heavy.

It's bad enough that he's twice as talented as you are, but the cunt can knock you out too.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Cableaddict said:


> Fast hands, Fast reflexes, One-punch power.
> 
> A fighter that can take advantage of any small mistake Loma might make, defensively, and then make that count.
> 
> Gervonta Davis gets my vote for the most likely to succeed.


Think Mikey has the best chance because of his timing next is Davis, yeah literally someone who is just looking to slip and throw KO punches the whole fight


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I get the elite pressure/swarmer posts, but how would a Floyd type fighter win?


Floyd just better in every area basically.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

those that are named Mikey Garcia


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> because Floyd is better


I was looking for more detail, its fairly clear to me how a an elite pressure/swarmer type fighter could overwhelm Loma while at the same time taking his softer shots. Old ass Siri gave us a glimpse.

I don't mind admitting when I don't know something, and I can't say I'm very familiar with 130 Floyd. Its been a while since I rewatched any of his fights and I was a kid when they were live.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Floyd just better in every area basically.


How would he use the "better in every area skills" to do it? Paint a picture for me Turbo.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Gun to my head, I am not favouring anyone over 130 Floyd. Supernatural talent. I think he's in that exclusive group of H2H monsters, like Jones at 168lbs, Hearns at 147lbs, or Bellew at Heavy.
> 
> It's bad enough that he's twice as talented as you are, but the cunt can knock you out too.


How would you see this mythical matchup going Peds?


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> How would he use the "better in every area skills" to do it? Paint a picture for me Turbo.


I was I think 13 years old when Floyd was in his prime at 130? You weren't watching these live? I'm surprised at how old boxing fans are when they started liking the sport. I was buying RING mags when I was in grade school :lol:

But i had no friends :sad5


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> How would you see this mythical matchup going Peds?


I'll leave the more intelligent fight fans to break it down, but Floyd just seemed to be operating in a different time zone at 130lbs. One of the fastest fighters of hand and foot that I think I have ever seen. Corrales barely threw anything during their fight because he was so fearful of being countered. The two biggest differences between 130 Floyd to the one we have become accustomed to seeing this decade is his ability to throw in combination and possessing genuine power. Floyd made 8 successful title defences of his WBC title and only Carlos Hernandez, Carlos Rios and Gregario Vargas went the distance. His combinations were beautiful, he mixed it up to both head and body with blinding hand speed. You had to feel sorry for poor old Corrales in there, he had the size but he was in with a far superior athlete and technician. Floyd pretty much won every second of every round.






This kid was so good that he would eventually go on to beat the shit out of Welterweights and Junior Middleweights. Would you consider putting Lomachenko in the same ring with Canelo Alvarez? Any version of Canelo Alvarez?


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

turbotime said:


> I was I think 13 years old when Floyd was in his prime at 130? You weren't watching these live? I'm surprised at how old boxing fans are when they started liking the sport. I was buying RING mags when I was in grade school :lol:
> 
> But i had no friends :sad5


Na, I started late. My dad was a fairly casual boxing fan and mostly watched Mexican fighters, I watched when he watched pretty much until we got Internet in my late teens.


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

im not so sure about 130 floyd. all those guys corrales, juuko, manfredy etc were more squared up and there to be hit. loma has that crazy footwork, head movement, pace. it'd be one hell of a match up


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Na, I started late. My dad was a fairly casual boxing fan and mostly watched Mexican fighters, I watched when he watched pretty much until we got Internet in my late teens.


You didnt have the magic black satellite?


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## chibelle (Jun 5, 2013)

Maidana type.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

nuclear said:


> im not so sure about 130 floyd. all those guys corrales, juuko, manfredy etc were more squared up and there to be hit. loma has that crazy footwork, head movement, pace. it'd be one hell of a match up


Floyd has a 7 inch reach advantage over Lomachenko, and he's quicker too.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I was looking for more detail, its fairly clear to me how a an elite pressure/swarmer type fighter could overwhelm Loma while at the same time taking his softer shots. Old ass Siri gave us a glimpse.
> 
> I don't mind admitting when I don't know something, and I can't say I'm very familiar with 130 Floyd. Its been a while since I rewatched any of his fights and I was a kid when they were live.


I gotcha. An older Mayweather would use his jab and his 6 inch reach advantage to control the distance like he did Pacquiao. He'd then look to counter him on the way in and use his own elite footwork to neutralize Lomaechenko's ambushes and control his angles.

Now a younger Floyd who used to cut weight to make 130 with KO power and every punch in his arsenal, could beat him without sticking to a one dimensional like that. He'd target the hell out of Lomachenko's body and land his uppercut.

I don't necessarily say that this is the style to beat Lomachenko. I'm just saying that Mayweather himself would beat him.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Not beat but a prime Jesus Chavez would be a great fight.

Jesus threw more than 100 punches per round against Floyd, surely that kind of pressure bothers anyone.


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

Pedderrs said:


> Floyd has a 7 inch reach advantage over Lomachenko, and he's quicker too.


yeah i get you. itd make sense to bet on floyd but i just want to see how he would react to something like this



http://imgur.com/height%3D404%3Bid%3D0BkV6UY%3Btype%3Dgifv%3Bwidth%3D720


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

nuclear said:


> yeah i get you. itd make sense to bet on floyd but i just want to see how he would react to something like this
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/height%3D404%3Bid%3D0BkV6UY%3Btype%3Dgifv%3Bwidth%3D720


Loma would have had about 3 right hand leads to his dome in that clip there. Approaching Floyd with your hands at your waist? Nah mate.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

nuclear said:


> yeah i get you. itd make sense to bet on floyd but i just want to see how he would react to something like this
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/height%3D404%3Bid%3D0BkV6UY%3Btype%3Dgifv%3Bwidth%3D720


Elbow, forearm, hold. Pause, reset, back to the actual business of boxing.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

dyna said:


> Not beat but a prime Jesus Chavez would be a great fight.
> 
> Jesus threw more than 100 punches per round against Floyd, surely that kind of pressure bothers anyone.


I don't recall him winning many rounds, if any, but Jesus Chavez made it extremely rough for Floyd in their fight. He gave it absolutely everything. That's to his credit.


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

steviebruno said:


> Elbow, forearm, hold. Pause, reset, back to the actual business of boxing.


that ref from loma vs rigo took points for excessive holding and we all know floyd would hold like a mother...


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> .


Oh man, it's almost hard to remember how different Floyd was back then.

Interesting though: even though he was faster, and (compared to his last few years) much more aggressive, his defense was also not nearly as refined. He mostly moved back in a straight line. Compare that to his lateral movement (both defensively and offensively) that developed a bit later. The era of Floyd-Osky and Floyd- Hatton (30 y-o) was probably the height of his overall skills, IMO, just not the height of his speed or reflexes.

The thing about Loma is, he already has that side movement down. - And with insanely good balance & fluidity. Well, he IS 29 y-o, but still very young in "pro boxing" terms.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> Oh man, it's almost hard to remember how different Floyd was back then.
> 
> Interesting though: even though he was faster, and (compared to his last few years) much more aggressive, his defense was also not nearly as refined. He mostly moved back in a straight line. Compare that to his lateral movement (both defensively and offensively) that developed a bit later. The era of Floyd-Osky and Floyd- Hatton (30 y-o) was probably the height of his overall skills, IMO, just not the height of his speed or reflexes.
> 
> The thing about Loma is, he already has that side movement down. - And with insanely good balance & fluidity. Well, he IS 29 y-o, but still very young in "pro boxing" terms.


I dunno, Floyd fought Corrales less than a year after that fight and that was one of his most complete performances. He demonstrated beautiful lateral movement in that one, moving Corrales around the ring so that he could never set. You probably didn't see so much of that against Gerena because Floyd knew he was up against an over-matched opponent. Floyd was looking for the knockout from the opening bell and he very nearly got it before the end of the 1st. Otherworldly speed though, and it was so nice to see Floyd doubling up and throwing combinations. We seldom saw that once he was fighting guys at 147lbs+. A very nice performance, an exhibition.


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## mrtony80 (Jun 8, 2013)

I‘m just interested in seeing how Loma would adapt to adversity...now. He didn’t adapt at all against Salido. I mean, maybe a little in the last two rounds, but for all his majestic talent and skill, we just don’t know how he’ll handle it when he’s finally in there with a guy he can’t play around with.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

mrtony80 said:


> I'm just interested in seeing how Loma would adapt to adversity...now. He didn't adapt at all against Salido. I mean, maybe a little in the last two rounds, but for all his majestic talent and skill, we just don't know how he'll handle it when he's finally in there with a guy he can't play around with.


It's a good point. We're all assuming Lomachenko improved after Salido and that he would win easily in a rematch, but what evidence do we have of Lomachenko improving? He hasn't fought anyone like Salido since. There aren't many Salidos around, frankly.


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> It's a good point. We're all assuming Lomachenko improved after Salido and that he would win easily in a rematch, but what evidence do we have of Lomachenko improving? He hasn't fought anyone like Salido since. There aren't many Salidos around, frankly.


I also think Vasyl would win a rematch, I used to think he'd have to work hard for the win but now I do think he wins quite easy not just due to his improvements but a lot also due to Salido getting older and all the wars he has been in. This past Saturday showed us...Salido of a couple of years ago would have stopped Roman.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I dunno, Floyd fought Corrales less than a year after that fight and that was one of his most complete performances. *He demonstrated beautiful lateral movement in that one, *moving Corrales around the ring so that he could never set. You probably didn't see so much of that against Gerena because Floyd knew he was up against an over-matched opponent. Floyd was looking for the knockout from the opening bell and he very nearly got it before the end of the 1st. Otherworldly speed though, and it was so nice to see Floyd doubling up and throwing combinations. We seldom saw that once he was fighting guys at 147lbs+. A very nice performance, an exhibition.


Say, that's true. I haven't seen that fight since it actually happened.

Well, maybe that's exactly when he made the change.


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> We're all assuming Lomachenko improved after Salido and that he would win easily in a rematch, but what evidence do we have of Lomachenko improving?


Watching him. His output is much higher, and he has become more spiteful when openings present themselves. It's clear as day that he's improved.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Strike said:


> Watching him. His output is much higher, and he has become more spiteful when openings present themselves. It's clear as day that he's improved.


I think a 1-0 Lomachenko handles Russell, Walters and Sosa similarly to how he did when he fought them. None of the aforementioned three close the distance as quickly as Salido or make it as uncomfortable on the inside. I think that's what Lomachenko struggled with. Salido is a difficult night's work for any fighter that relies on split second timing and the anticipation of the opponent because his offense is often unpredictable. He doesn't have fast hands but he throws so many different punches from so many different angles and it's in close where you have little to no leverage to get off yourself. Lomachenko has never fought anything close to that since Salido so the idea he would have won an immediate rematch easily is based on presumption more than anything else. He beats Salido now, of course, but that has just as much to do with Salido's decline as it does any improvements in Lomachenko, in my opinion.


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> I think a 1-0 Lomachenko handles Russell, Walters and Sosa similarly to how he did when he fought them. None of the aforementioned three close the distance as quickly as Salido or make it as uncomfortable on the inside. I think that's what Lomachenko struggled with. Salido is a difficult night's work for any fighter that relies on split second timing and the anticipation of the opponent because his offense is often unpredictable. He doesn't have fast hands but he throws so many different punches from so many different angles and it's in close where you have little to no leverage to get off yourself. Lomachenko has never fought anything close to that since Salido so the idea he would have won an immediate rematch easily is based on presumption more than anything else. He beats Salido now, of course, but that has just as much to do with Salido's decline as it does any improvements in Lomachenko, in my opinion.


It's not presumption, it's the fact that he worked out how to be effective against Salido in the second half of their fight, and by the final 4 rounds was turning it on. Great fighters adapt mid fight...Calzaghe against Kessler is a good example from not too long ago. Look at the difference in Ward-Kovalev II compared to the first...Ward figured Kovalev out in the latter half of their first fight, but it was close. By the rematch, he knew what to do. That's not rare with great fighters.

Lomachenko showed that he figured out Salido by the end of their fight, despite still being fouled and after he had thrown away early rounds by not throwing enough, as he had never been 12. An immediate rematch with a functioning ref...and all the evidence suggests that Loma wins. Salido cannot low blow constantly, Lomachenko had worked out how to get to him, and would turn up the pace earlier.

Of course it can never be proven, and I have no interest in seeing a rematch now...it would prove nothing. But I am 100% confident that if they had fought 3 months later, Lomachenko would have won wide or stopped him...that's what the evidence suggests.


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## CASH_718 (Jan 24, 2016)

Pedrin1787 said:


> What type of fighter gives Nomaschenko problems? In this scenario both are prime and neither has a significant size advantage. What attributes would they need to have, which style, what would they have to do?
> 
> You can name real life examples or just describe a type of fighter.
> 
> I'm not trying to nut hug or discredit Loma so fuck off with snarky comments. I just think it'd be interesting to get an idea of what the board thinks.


Taller fighters with a great jab and timing to keep him at bay, negate his speed advantage and time him with hard counters has he opens up with his flurries.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Strike said:


> Watching him. His output is much higher, and he has become more spiteful when openings present themselves. It's clear as day that he's improved.


Exactly. 
He now thinks more about power and aggression, less about just scoring points and defense.


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## UK fight fan (Apr 22, 2016)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I was looking for more detail, its fairly clear to me how a an elite pressure/swarmer type fighter could overwhelm Loma while at the same time taking his softer shots. Old ass Siri gave us a glimpse.
> 
> I don't mind admitting when I don't know something, and I can't say I'm very familiar with 130 Floyd. Its been a while since I rewatched any of his fights and I was a kid when they were live.


The division itself is relatively new, but Floyd is the fairly obvious all time number 1 in it(like Holyfield at Cruiser & Calzaghe at 168). As you say Siri rough house tactics worked pretty well and Mayweather could employ them too and would also have the size advantage that Salido had (and make weight). Floyd also let his hands go in that division far more than Rigondeaux, and Loma ain't just gonna box circles round Floyd. It would be close- close enough for Loma to think he won- but I lean slightly toward Mayweather.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I don't recall him winning many rounds, if any, but Jesus Chavez made it extremely rough for Floyd in their fight. He gave it absolutely everything. That's to his credit.


His fight against Morales was class, besides the 2 knockdowns early one I think he performed better than Pacman. And that was fighting for the remaining 10 rounds with one arm. Or maybe I'm just biased because fighting Erik one armed impressed me..

Very underrated win for Floyd, Jesus was a class fighter.

Also a nice pressure fighter not some "let me smother my own work" fighter like Porter.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Strike said:


> It's not presumption, it's the fact that he worked out how to be effective against Salido in the second half of their fight, and by the final 4 rounds was turning it on. Great fighters adapt mid fight...Calzaghe against Kessler is a good example from not too long ago. Look at the difference in Ward-Kovalev II compared to the first...Ward figured Kovalev out in the latter half of their first fight, but it was close. By the rematch, he knew what to do. That's not rare with great fighters.


I understand the point but I'm not sure Ward-Kovalev 2 is a good example. The rematch was virtually even on two of the three scorecards at the time of the stoppage, and if I remember correctly it was Kovalev who finished the stronger of the two in the first fight. Did the testicle shots bother you in that one too? It wasn't as blatant or as incessant, but the fight was literally stopped on a low blow.



> Lomachenko showed that he figured out Salido by the end of their fight, despite still being fouled and after he had thrown away early rounds by not throwing enough, as he had never been 12. An immediate rematch with a functioning ref...and all the evidence suggests that Loma wins. Salido cannot low blow constantly, Lomachenko had worked out how to get to him, and would turn up the pace earlier.


I think the change in momentum was also as a result of Salido slowing down. He had to work extremely hard in those first six rounds and it's hard enough to maintain that work rate even when you're a young prime athlete in tip top shape, Salido was an old man with numerous wars under his belt. This is not to discredit Lomachenko because I thought it was mighty impressive to see him finish the stronger considering his inexperience, but I'm just saying there might have been a number of factors involved, not simply that Salido was 'figured out'.



> Of course it can never be proven, and I have no interest in seeing a rematch now...it would prove nothing. But I am 100% confident that if they had fought 3 months later, Lomachenko would have won wide or stopped him...that's what the evidence suggests.


That's pretty confident mate. I'm not even that confident Christopher beats George on the 17th, and I'd just about bet my life on that happening.

You're a confident man. That's good.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

nuclear said:


> that ref from loma vs rigo took points for excessive holding and we all know floyd would hold like a mother...


He took points because Rigo wasn't doing anything_ but_ holding. It would have been different if Rigo was working on the inside and giving some type of show.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I'll leave the more intelligent fight fans to break it down, but Floyd just seemed to be operating in a different time zone at 130lbs. One of the fastest fighters of hand and foot that I think I have ever seen. Corrales barely threw anything during their fight because he was so fearful of being countered. The two biggest differences between 130 Floyd to the one we have become accustomed to seeing this decade is his ability to throw in combination and possessing genuine power. Floyd made 8 successful title defences of his WBC title and only Carlos Hernandez, Carlos Rios and Gregario Vargas went the distance. His combinations were beautiful, he mixed it up to both head and body with blinding hand speed. You had to feel sorry for poor old Corrales in there, he had the size but he was in with a far superior athlete and technician. Floyd pretty much won every second of every round.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Every time you post one of these videos, I lose an hour of my life. Please stop. Floyd was just so spectacular to watch at 130. Looking back, it's shocking to see how much better and more complete he was _before_ he became famous. The weight jumps and hand problems took a lot out of him, yet he still remained elite for a very long time.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> Every time you post one of these videos, I lose an hour of my life. Please stop. Floyd was just so spectacular to watch at 130. Looking back, it's shocking to see how much better and more complete he was _before_ he became famous. The weight jumps and hand problems took a lot out of him, yet he still remained elite for a very long time.


Sorry mate.:lol:

I had to share it though. It's a ridiculous display of talent. You watch that and then you think about the prospects we have now. The world champs we have now. Night and day.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Sorry mate.:lol:
> 
> I had to share it though. It's a ridiculous display of talent. You watch that and then you think about the prospects we have now. The world champs we have now. Night and day.


Yet people are starting the discussion with, 'what would Floyd do to adjust to Loma'. Uh, no. Loma would have to make the first, second, and third adjustments to have a chance of dealing with what PBF brought to the table at 130.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> Yet people are starting the discussion with, 'what would Floyd do to adjust to Loma'. Uh, no. Loma would have to make the first, second, and third adjustments to have a chance of dealing with what PBF brought to the table at 130.


I love Arguello but I think he'd be made to look ridiculous in the same ring with Floyd at 130.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I love Arguello but I think he'd be made to look ridiculous in the same ring with Floyd at 130.


Alexis had that equalizer, but Floyd's chin was also rock solid at 130. He was good enough to keep Floyd honest and on the move enough to survive and win a couple of rounds, but no way does he land enough to win the fight.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> Alexis had that equalizer, but Floyd's chin was also rock solid at 130. He was good enough to keep Floyd honest and on the move enough to survive and win a couple of rounds, but no way does he land enough to win the fight.


Yeah, Arguello could hit. Even as a Lightweight. But he looked pretty ordinary against movers. It's difficult to see him catching up with a prime Floyd, who carried more than enough pop at the weight to deter Arguello from throwing caution to the wind, not that he ever did.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Washed up Johnny Tapia would get the job done.


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> I understand the point but I'm not sure Ward-Kovalev 2 is a good example. The rematch was virtually even on two of the three scorecards at the time of the stoppage, and if I remember correctly it was Kovalev who finished the stronger of the two in the first fight. Did the testicle shots bother you in that one too? It wasn't as blatant or as incessant, but the fight was literally stopped on a low blow.


Yes the low blows mattered, but not to the same extent as Ward was already battering Kovalev before low blows came into it. But did the low blows bother me? Yes...a lot. I thought it was a fucking joke that they were ignored.



Pedderrs said:


> I think the change in momentum was also as a result of Salido slowing down. He had to work extremely hard in those first six rounds and it's hard enough to maintain that work rate even when you're a young prime athlete in tip top shape, Salido was an old man with numerous wars under his belt. This is not to discredit Lomachenko because I thought it was mighty impressive to see him finish the stronger considering his inexperience, but I'm just saying there might have been a number of factors involved, not simply that Salido was 'figured out'.


Meh. To say you're not trying to discredit Lomachenko rings very hollow, when practically every post on him seems to be you looking to criticise. Lomachenko clearly threw more punches, clearly slipped more...yeah some of it could have been due to Salido getting tired, but then you've said maybe if they had had an immediate rematch it would have been the same. How so? Salido would have got just as tired, but Lomachenko would have known about pacing and would presumably not have had a ref who let double figure low blows go unpunished.

Let's be honest, you've understandably got annoyed at some hyperbole around Lomachenko and it's meant that you can't be honest about his abilities. Every post I see on him from you is barbed. It is what it is.

I cannot claim any credit for "being right", as I jumped on the bandwagon way too late, but I am confident that you will end up saying "I was wrong" and seeing this talent as one for the ages. I just hope the fights get made to prove it.

Does he beat Garcia? Yes...in my opinion, and not in a super close fight either.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Strike said:


> Meh. To say you're not trying to discredit Lomachenko rings very hollow, when practically every post on him seems to be you looking to criticise.


Ah, questioning my credibility right off the bat? Savage. :lol:

What specifically have I said about Lomachenko that you consider to be unfair?



> Lomachenko clearly threw more punches, clearly slipped more...yeah some of it could have been due to Salido getting tired, but then you've said maybe if they had had an immediate rematch it would have been the same. How so?


It's true, I dared to explore other reasoning for Salido losing the last couple of rounds outside of Lomachenko downloading the blueprint. Strike me down with lightning. No pun intended.

Let me clarify my position for you. I agree with you that Lomachenko would have probably won an immediate rematch but I think it's naive to suggest Salido was going to be nullified completely -- immediately -- right from the opening bell. It's somewhat disrespectful also, conveniently forgetting all of the positive and effective work Siri did in the first fight because Lomachenko finished the stronger of the two. I'd be more liable to fall in line with the idea that Lomachenko would have won a rematch easily without breaking a sweat if we had seen the Ukrainian handle anything even remotely similar. Like a Vargas or a Berchelt. But we haven't, so I wouldn't be 100% convinced he would have had an easy night's work with Siri. You mention a higher work rate, but I'd expect to see a higher work rate against guys like Russell and Walters. Compared to Siri, passive. They will give you room.



> Salido would have got just as tired, but Lomachenko would have known about pacing and would presumably not have had a ref who let double figure low blows go unpunished.


On the flip side, if Lomachenko is going to up his work rate and take more chances, which is what I'm assuming you meant when you said he now puts more sting in punches, then that potentially leaves more opportunities for Salido to land something big of his own. Salido is big at the weight and a respectable puncher, and we have yet to see the Ukrainian weather anything particularly noteworthy in the professional ranks. It's plausible that he doesn't have world level punch resistance or world level recuperative abilities. I mean, we are speculating. Questions remain unanswered. Is that unfair to say? But just to reiterate, I wouldn't favour Salido in an immediate rematch and I'm certain that has always been my position.



> Let's be honest, you've understandably got annoyed at some hyperbole around Lomachenko and it's meant that you can't be honest about his abilities. Every post I see on him from you is barbed. It is what it is.


The first part is true but I've been very honest about that already. As you say, understandable. But I don't agree with you when you say I can't be honest about his abilities. On the contrary, I think I am one of the select few on these boards that is honest about his abilities. I give the man credit for who he has defeated and the manner in which he has defeated them. He's outstanding, his resume for a man with 11 fights is ridiculous. But the reason every post you see of mine is 'barbed' (dunno what this means but I can guess) is because I am always contesting ludicrous claims. He dominates Marco Antonio Barrera. He beats Floyd Mayweather Jr at 130. He's an ATG. People can express any opinion they want to express but when I reply by saying 'Lomachenko hasn't been near a ring with anyone remotely of the caliber of a Barrera' then it's bizarre for anyone to consider that a criticism of Lomachenko. It's unfair on Lomachenko to be making such claims, just let the man forge his own legacy without comparing him to past greats who had 5-6 x as many opportunities to prove themselves over careers that spanned 3 or 4 decades.



> I cannot claim any credit for "being right", as I jumped on the bandwagon way too late, but I am confident that you will end up saying "I was wrong" and seeing this talent as one for the ages. I just hope the fights get made to prove it.


I've already admitted I was wrong.



Dealt_with said:


> So where's my apology then? Can you at least admit that my prediction that Loma would be pound for pound in ten fights wasn't worthy of being laughed at and quoted as something to be ridiculed in your signature?





Pedderrs said:


> Indeed, I can concede that. I apologise Dealt With.
> 
> We all get it wrong sometimes. But you had to understand my position, why would I think a fighter could make such an impact so quickly when nobody else has done it in my lifetime?


But this doesn't mean I agree with the notion that he dominates proven modern greats effortlessly.



> Does he beat Garcia? Yes...in my opinion, and not in a super close fight either.


It would all depend on how he reacts to being hit by a hard hitting Lightweight. He's been far too good for his opponents up to this point but Garcia isn't just big, he's supremely skilled in his own right and hits very hard. Not by Super Bantamweight standards, not by Featherweight standards; but as a Lightweight he hits hard. This is new territory for Lomachenko, but if he can take Garcia's punches well then I would favour him to win the majority of the rounds. An 8-4 type deal. But we still have much to learn about this dude.

Interesting, I hate Lomachenko and yet there isn't a fighter below Junior Welterweight that I would favour to beat him.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

I'll open that question up to everyone...

What have I said about Lomachenko that you would consider totally unfair and evident of my irrational hatred for the man? Let's leave out the things I said clearly in jest.

@One to watch


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I'll open that question up to everyone...
> 
> What have I said about Lomachenko that you would consider totally unfair and evident of my irrational hatred for the man? Let's leave out the things I said clearly in jest.
> 
> @One to watch


You said Rigo was going to break his jaw, no wait that was @Rigondeaux.

Only thing I thought was unfair was when you and Stevie were criticizing his stoppage win against Rigo like it was it his decision that Rigo quit early.

I called @steviebruno out on it but he never replied.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> You said Rigo was going to break his jaw, no wait that was @Rigondeaux.
> 
> Only thing I thought was unfair was when you and Stevie were criticizing his stoppage win against Rigo like it was it his decision that Rigo quit early.
> 
> I called @steviebruno out on it but he never replied.


I wasn't criticising the win, I was simply disagreeing with those who are hailing it a monumental victory. I don't think it is when you consider the circumstances. Rigondeux is a small Super Bantamweight, he isn't a Super Featherweight. He's old dude, he's 37, and he fights like once a year. I understand the point made that Lomachenko outboxed Rigo rather than impose his size, but Rigo didn't show us anything. He barely threw a left hand all evening. He showed less ambition than Walters, and was less competitive than Russell. I maintained from the beginning that it was a mismatch and Rigo showed me absolutely nothing in there to suggest otherwise. It's a good win and Lomachenko did what he had to do, but I don't think we learned anything from it. Evidently neither does Lomachenko.

Come on man, is that really that unfair?


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> You said Rigo was going to break his jaw, no wait that was @Rigondeaux.
> 
> Only thing I thought was unfair was when you and Stevie were criticizing his stoppage win against Rigo like it was it his decision that Rigo quit early.
> 
> I called @steviebruno out on it but he never replied.


What's there to reply to? You were super impressed, I wasn't. Agree to disagree. I said before the fight that it was an obvious cash out by Rigo and him quitting like this after taking just a handful of power shots over seven rounds just confirmed what I said.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> These stats really are pathetic, tbh, especially for a fight at 130 lbs. Land 55 punches over seven rounds and then call yourself "No mas-chencko", brehs...





Pedderrs said:


> Worse. He pulls up a small Super Bantam to Super Feather, fails to hurt him, and then calls himself 'No Mas-chenko'.
> 
> And worse, everyone rides with it.
> 
> Dat kool-aid.


Quoting the posts I thought were unfair.

This isn't about being impressed/unimpressed, Loma has every right to use the "Nomaschenko" because he's handed out back to back to back "No mas" results.

The fact that he landed "only 55 punches" is hardly his fault, Rigo tried to wrestle anytime Loma got close then freakin quit when the going got rough.

I can't call it the win of the decade or anything but Loma was pure class that night, not his fault the boxing hipster's god bit off more than he could chew.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Quoting the posts I thought were unfair.
> 
> This isn't about being impressed/unimpressed, Loma has every right to use the "Nomaschenko" because he's handed out back to back to back "No mas" results.
> 
> ...


He has every right to use the nickname but I don't have to like it. I personally didn't like him talking like that whilst Rigondeux was stood right beside him waiting to do his post fight interview. I didn't like Manny Pacquiao embracing the title Mexican Killer either. It just isn't a good look, nicknaming yourself after fighting a dude pushing 40 who was operating in two divisions below you. I did find it embarrassing.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> He has every right to use the nickname but I don't have to like it. I personally didn't like him talking like that whilst Rigondeux was stood right beside him waiting to do his post fight interview. I didn't like Manny Pacquiao embracing the title Mexican Killer either. It just isn't a good look, nicknaming yourself after fighting a dude pushing 40 who was operating in two divisions below you. I did find it embarrassing.


Fair enough that you don't like it, but saying that anyone that acknowledges or liked the stoppage is "drinking the kool-aid" is not.

Loma did in fact make Rigo quit, he could've continued but he chose not to, Loma deserves credit for that.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Fair enough that you don't like it, but saying that anyone that acknowledges or liked the stoppage is "drinking the kool-aid" is not.
> 
> Loma did in fact make Rigo quit, he could've continued but he chose not to, Loma deserves credit for that.


Well I wasn't quite saying that buddy. We can acknowledge stoppages and good performances without celebrating obnoxious nicknames.


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I understand the point but I'm not sure Ward-Kovalev 2 is a good example. The rematch was virtually even on two of the three scorecards at the time of the stoppage, and if I remember correctly it was Kovalev who finished the stronger of the two in the first fight. Did the testicle shots bother you in that one too? It wasn't as blatant or as incessant, but the fight was literally stopped on a low blow.
> 
> I think the change in momentum was also as a result of Salido slowing down. He had to work extremely hard in those first six rounds and it's hard enough to maintain that work rate even when you're a young prime athlete in tip top shape, Salido was an old man with numerous wars under his belt. This is not to discredit Lomachenko because I thought it was mighty impressive to see him finish the stronger considering his inexperience, but I'm just saying there might have been a number of factors involved, not simply that Salido was 'figured out'.
> 
> ...


Let's not forget that Salido wasn't exactly in top shape coming into that fight, which was a very big factor in him slowing down late in the fight. Dude was pretty much starving himself trying to make weight (and failed). Fighting at a frenetic pace like Salido does requires one to be in TIP TOP shape.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Quoting the posts I thought were unfair.
> 
> This isn't about being impressed/unimpressed, Loma has every right to use the "Nomaschenko" because he's handed out back to back to back "No mas" results.
> 
> ...


But it is partially his fault that he landed 55 punches. With all the clowning and posturing he was doing, you'd think that he landed more than 16% of his punches thrown. That is bad for any standard, and far short of his own. He was very frustrated and the late punch, imo, highlighted this. If he is as good as you say he is, you should expect more.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Well I wasn't quite saying that buddy. We can acknowledge stoppages and good performances without celebrating obnoxious nicknames.


Fair enough friend.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> But it is partially his fault that he landed 55 punches. With all the clowning and posturing he was doing, you'd think that he landed more than 16% of his punches thrown. That is bad for any standard, and far short of his own. He was very frustrated and the late punch, imo, highlighted this. If he is as good as you say he is, you should expect more.


:lol::lol::lol:

So you're telling me Loma was not in control from round 2 until Rigo quit?


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> But it is partially his fault that he landed 55 punches. With all the clowning and posturing he was doing, you'd think that he landed more than 16% of his punches thrown. That is bad for any standard, and far short of his own. He was very frustrated and the late punch, imo, highlighted this. If he is as good as you say he is, you should expect more.


Who else lands punches on Rigondeaux? A defensive wizard just trying to survive. He wasn't frustrated at all, he was retaliating for Rigo's shoulder/neck lock and tackle into the rope. You don't know what the hell you are talking about.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

I'd be interested to hear your opinion on this topic @Dealt_with

Who is beating Lomachenko?


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I'd be interested to hear your opinion on this topic @Dealt_with
> 
> Who is beating Lomachenko?


No one now that he understands pacing and how to complain/retaliate properly. The guy with the best chance is someone who can close ground quickly, dig to the head and especially the body with looping/awkward punches. Then that guy needs to be tough enough and have enough stamina to take punishment and throw 100+ punches a round. Salido/Maidana style but with a better boxing brain.

Otherwise someone who is just too big and powerful with skills. Crawford maybe.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> So you're telling me Loma was not in control from round 2 until Rigo quit?


Sure. Just not to the degree that he wanted or expected to be.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Don't yall think Morales would have a great shot?


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Who else lands punches on Rigondeaux? A defensive wizard just trying to survive. He wasn't frustrated at all, he was retaliating for Rigo's shoulder/neck lock and tackle into the rope. You don't know what the hell you are talking about.


If he beat smaller, 37 year-old who was just trying to survive and collect a paycheck, why should I be impressed? Rigo didn't show up prepared to deal with any sort of adversity.

And Loma was clearly frustrated by the lack of openings and spent much of the fight acting like a clown while swinging at air.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Don't yall think Morales would have a great shot?


He'd have a shot. I'd give Barrera a slightly better shot, though. Faster of hand, better combinations, blistering left hook to the body and a bit more discipline.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> He'd have a shot. I'd give Barrera a slightly better shot, though. Faster of hand, better combinations, blistering left hook to the body and a bit more discipline.


Barrera was my first shot also and I thought about how he schooled Naseem. Then was reminded how he struggled with Pacquiao. The difference obviously is that Lomachenko isn't as powerful or fast as Pacquiao.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> If he beat smaller, 37 year-old who was just trying to survive and collect a paycheck, why should I be impressed? Rigo didn't show up prepared to deal with any sort of adversity.
> 
> And Loma was clearly frustrated by the lack of openings and spent much of the fight acting like a clown while swinging at air.


Acting like a clown? What are you talking about? You're obviously projecting your bias and dislike into an imaginary situation.
Loma was fine and in complete control, he was starting to turn it up and land harder punches in the middle of the fight. He does that every fight, then his opponents either get beaten up or quit.

Imagine that you are Rigondeaux, you've been on another level for your whole life and you haven't lost a bout in 15 years. Then you're in the ring with someone who does everything better than you and he's turning up the pressure. It would be so demoralising because you are Rigondeaux. As per usual boxing fans show no capability for understanding context or for nuanced thinking.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Acting like a clown? What are you talking about? You're obviously projecting your bias and dislike into an imaginary situation.
> Loma was fine and in complete control, he was starting to turn it up and land harder punches in the middle of the fight. He does that every fight, then his opponents either get beaten up or quit.
> 
> Imagine that you are Rigondeaux, you've been on another level for your whole life and you haven't lost a bout in 15 years. Then you're in the ring with someone who does everything better than you and he's turning up the pressure. It would be so demoralising because you are Rigondeaux. As per usual boxing fans show no capability for understanding context or for nuanced thinking.


Or, maybe it is you who are biased and seeing something that simply did not happen. Rigo agreed to move up to 130 at age 37, after turning down a fight with Loma at 126 several years ago. You're kidding yourself if you think he showed up expecting anything other than what happened in the ring. He wasn't demoralized; he was satisfied with the paycheck and took the first out provided to him.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Barrera was my first shot also and I thought about how he schooled Naseem. Then was reminded how he struggled with Pacquiao. The difference obviously is that Lomachenko isn't as powerful or fast as Pacquiao.


Barrera was more of a pocket fighter than EM and would always be at Pac's mercy from that standpoint. He was actually doing pretty well offensively against Manny early in their first fight; he basically just got caught standing in the middle of a tornado.

Morales was rangier, more durable, and a bit more ornery.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Or, maybe it is you who are biased and seeing something that simply did not happen. Rigo agreed to move up to 130 at age 37, after turning down a fight with Loma at 126 several years ago. You're kidding yourself if you think he showed up expecting anything other than what happened in the ring. He wasn't demoralized; he was satisfied with the paycheck and took the first out provided to him.


You're almost as delusional as @Rigondeaux.

http://checkhookboxing.com/index.php?threads/so-what-is-next-for-rigondeaux.101449/page-4

Why would Pedro Diaz front half of his training costs if they weren't in it to win it?

This source said the camp was excellent.

I'm not sure you watched the fight Stevie, it's one thing to say "I think the win is overrated, pump the brakes on the hype" and another thing to say that Loma was completely ineffective and that the result we got was purely due to Rigo cashing out.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> You're almost as delusional as @Rigondeaux.
> 
> http://checkhookboxing.com/index.php?threads/so-what-is-next-for-rigondeaux.101449/page-4
> 
> ...


What? Think about what you just linked me. Rigo is BROKE and needs cash, which is the exact reason he took an unwinnable fight in the first place. It's not rocket science. Pedro fronted half his training cost because he feels bad about the situation that Rigo is in.

I take has camp being "excellent" with a grain of salt.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> What? Think about what you just linked me. Rigo is BROKE and needs cash, which is the exact reason he took an unwinnable fight in the first place. It's not rocket science. Pedro fronted half his training cost because he feels bad about the situation that Rigo is in.
> 
> I take has camp being "excellent" with a grain of salt.


Money may have been the motive for taking the fight but I don't think it was what caused the quit job. Had Loma been lost in there like you say, Rigo would've gladly held on till the 12th. He's not shy about going through 12 rounders where nothing happens, ask Cordoba and Agbeko.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Money may have been the motive for taking the fight but I don't think it was what caused the quit job. Had Loma been lost in there like you say, Rigo would've gladly held on till the 12th. He's not shy about going through 12 rounders where nothing happens, ask Cordoba and Agbeko.


He was winning those fights. Not really a point in quitting a fight that you are ahead in, no? Look, he might have had a decent camp and deluded himself into thinking he had a chance, but that all false confidence goes out the window when you step into the ring against a hungry technician in his prime like Loma and then it becomes easy to look for a way out.

I question how Rigo could have had an "excellent" camp while showing up for a 130lb fight. How did he put on weight that he didn't put on for his entire career? What was his diet like? Did he lift more than he's accustomed to lifting? How did he sustain the weight; was his cardio regimen altered to keep the pounds on? How aggressively were the bigger fighters he sparred with going after him? etc.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> He was winning those fights. Not really a point in quitting a fight that you are ahead in, no? Look, he might have had a decent camp and deluded himself into thinking he had a chance, but that all false confidence goes out the window when you step into the ring against a hungry technician in his prime like Loma and then it becomes easy to look for a way out.
> 
> I question how Rigo could have had a "great" camp while showing up for a 130lb fight. How did he put on weight that he didn't put on for his entire career? What was his diet like? Did he lift more than he's accustomed to lifting? How aggressively were the bigger fighters he sparred with going after him? etc.


Of course he wouldn't quit a fight he was winning, but why would he quit a fight where (according to you) his opponent was frustrated and not landing much of anything?

He quit because he realized he had no answer to what Loma was doing in the ring, plain and simple. His only answer was to hold and wrestle until the ref took a point.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Salvador Sanchez TKO Lomachenko


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Of course he wouldn't quit a fight he was winning, but why would he quit a fight where (according to you) his opponent was frustrated and not landing much of anything?
> 
> He quit because he realized he had no answer to what Loma was doing in the ring, plain and simple. His only answer was to hold and wrestle until the ref took a point.


I have not disputed this one time. We are in agreement that Guillermo Rigondeaux brought nothing to the table. At least, I think we are. You seem to want to have it both ways, though...


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

You're being a wee bit disingenuous with this excellent camp business @Pedrin1787. You know as well as I do that you have to take these things with a pinch of salt. We come to our own conclusions based on what we see on fight night. Very few fighters in history have moved up two divisions in the twilight of their careers and retained most of their powers. Is there any historical precedent for this?


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Salvador Sanchez TKO Lomachenko


Vicente Saldivar would give him far worse nightmares I think.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> You're being a wee bit disingenuous with this excellent camp business @Pedrin1787. You know as well as I do that you have to take these things with a pinch of salt. We come to our own conclusions based on what we see on fight night. Very few fighters in history have moved up two divisions in the twilight of their careers and retained most of their powers. Is there any historical precedent for this?


The mention of the camp was more to highlight that the team was going in looking to at least give a fight. I don't think its unreasonable to think that Rigo had a good camp, having a good camp does not mean your prime, it does not mean all your disadvantages go away.

Stevie is painting a picture of a guy who knew he was going to go in for a quick pay day and quit not because his opponent nullified anything he was trying to do, but because he just couldn't be bothered. If you watched the fight you'll know that this isn't true.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> The mention of the camp was more to highlight that the team was going in looking to at least give a fight. I don't think its unreasonable to think that Rigo had a good camp, having a good camp does not mean your prime, it does not mean all your disadvantages go away.
> 
> Stevie is painting a picture of a guy who knew he was going to go in for a quick pay day and quit not because his opponent nullified anything he was trying to do, but because he just couldn't be bothered. If you watched the fight you'll know that this isn't true.


Fair enough.

I'm not prepared to say that Rigo went into the fight knowing he'd lose, I'm simply saying a blown up Bantamweight has no business fighting P4P rated Super Featherweights at the age of 37.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> The mention of the camp was more to highlight that the team was going in looking to at least give a fight. I don't think its unreasonable to think that Rigo had a good camp, having a good camp does not mean your prime, it does not mean all your disadvantages go away.
> 
> Stevie is painting a picture of a guy who knew he was going to go in for a quick pay day and quit not because his opponent nullified anything he was trying to do, but because he just couldn't be bothered. If you watched the fight you'll know that this isn't true.


I watched the fight and saw Rigo throw 64 "power punches" (landing FIVE) for the entire fight while pawing with his jab. I guess you never really thought much of Guillermo Rigondeaux if you think that it was anywhere close to the best that he could do.

:conf


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> I have not disputed this one time. We are in agreement that Guillermo Rigondeaux brought nothing to the table. At least, I think we are. You seem to want to have it both ways, though...


In the fight I watched Loma dominated an older, smaller Rigo to the point where Rigo decided to quit rather than face the upcoming rounds against a guy that had been in control, landing clean blows since the 2nd round.

In the fight you watched Rigo made his opponent look silly (wide swings and showboating) and frustrated but he ended up calling it early because he realized he probably wasn't going to win.

Thats the difference.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> In the fight I watched Loma dominated an older, smaller Rigo to the point where Rigo decided to quit rather than face the upcoming rounds against a guy that had been in control, landing clean blows since the 2nd round.
> 
> In the fight you watched Rigo made his opponent look silly (wide swings and showboating) and frustrated but he ended up calling it early because he realized he probably wasn't going to win.
> 
> Thats the difference.


They both looked bad, Rigo looked worse... which is actually saying a lot considering how bad he made Loma look at times. But you're right, Nomaschenko jabbed him into submission that last round and landed a couple of power shots that forced consummate pro and HOF level amateur Guillermo Rigondeaux to quit on his stool.
:conf


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> They both looked bad, Rigo looked worse... which is actually saying a lot considering how bad he made Loma look at times. But you're right, Nomaschenko jabbed him into submission that last round and landed a couple of power shots that forced consummate pro and HOF level amateur Guillermo Rigondeaux to quit on his stool.
> :conf


We'll have to agree to agree then Stevie.


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## godsavethequeen (Jun 12, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> What type of fighter gives Nomaschenko problems? In this scenario both are prime and neither has a significant size advantage. What attributes would they need to have, which style, what would they have to do?
> 
> You can name real life examples or just describe a type of fighter.
> 
> I'm not trying to nut hug or discredit Loma so fuck off with snarky comments. I just think it'd be interesting to get an idea of what the board thinks.


Easy answer mate any Eurofighter, McDonnell, Sukhoi Su, Grumman ah shit you mean fisticuff fighters not fighter jets lmao


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> What type of fighter gives Nomaschenko problems?


Lomachenko vs Arguello - 15 rounds


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)




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## saul_ir34 (Jun 8, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> What type of fighter gives Nomaschenko problems? In this scenario both are prime and neither has a significant size advantage. What attributes would they need to have, which style, what would they have to do?
> 
> You can name real life examples or just describe a type of fighter.
> 
> I'm not trying to nut hug or discredit Loma so fuck off with snarky comments. I just think it'd be interesting to get an idea of what the board thinks.


Someone like Salido. Bigger stronger guy with endless stamina and a heavy workrate.
Someone like Mikey. Bigger, younger, taller, longer, has a stiff jab with a great outside game and fight ending power in each hand.


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Guy who can box on the back foot, with lateral movement


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

paloalto00 said:


> Guy who can box on the back foot, with lateral movement


Exactly


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> If he beat smaller, 37 year-old who was just trying to survive and collect a paycheck, why should I be impressed? Rigo didn't show up prepared to deal with any sort of adversity.
> 
> And Loma was clearly frustrated by the lack of openings and spent much of the fight acting like a clown while swinging at air.


I thought he fought the perfect fight . Had a look first round then slowly tightened the vice , increasing in pace and intensity in a controlled and measured way .
He made a very well respected fighter quit after 5 rounds, what do you want ?


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Or, maybe it is you who are biased and seeing something that simply did not happen. Rigo agreed to move up to 130 at age 37, after turning down a fight with Loma at 126 several years ago. You're kidding yourself if you think he showed up expecting anything other than what happened in the ring. He wasn't demoralized; he was satisfied with the paycheck and took the first out provided to him.


I saw Lomachenko overwhelm and dominate another opponent. Rigo's own


saul_ir34 said:


> Someone like Salido. Bigger stronger guy with endless stamina and a heavy workrate.
> Someone like Mikey. Bigger, younger, taller, longer, has a stiff jab with a great outside game and fight ending power in each hand.


Mikey :lol:
What you're talking about is an imaginary fighter. Garcia is junk.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> Mikey :lol:
> What you're talking about is an imaginary fighter. Garcia is junk.


You don't honestly believe this mate. And besides, if Lomachenko ever does beat Garcia then you're going to want him to get the respect the win deserves.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> You don't honestly believe this mate. And besides, if Lomachenko ever does beat Garcia then you're going to want him to get the respect the win deserves.


I honestly do. I think like a lot of alleged 'punchers' he is extremely overrated. Mikey is studying to be a lawyer, he isn't even a real boxer. I just hope Loma takes his zero before someone else gets the chance. If Loma lost a round against him I'd think that it was a poor performance from Loma.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

The combo to get Lomachenko is to lead with a hook to keep his guard up, and then follow up with either the right hand and left hook to the body or just LH to the body. Garcia would be someone who could execute it.


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## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

Eusebio Pedroza

Foul, foul, foul some more with the referee refusing to take points away and he'll squeak a decision victory


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## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Lomachenko, in my opinion.





steviebruno said:


> Yet people are starting the discussion with, 'what would Floyd do to adjust to Loma'. Uh, no. Loma would have to make the first, second, and third adjustments to have a chance of dealing with what PBF brought to the table at 130.


Chavez, Castillo, Cotto, Maidana all gave Floyd issues as front foot aggressive fighters so the counterpoint is how does Floyd deal with Vasya when his offensive prowess and footwork is 10 levels above any of those guys in addition to being a technician and defensive wizard?


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Vysotsky said:


> Chavez, Castillo, Cotto, Maidana all gave Floyd issues as front foot aggressive fighters so the counterpoint is how does Floyd deal with Vasya when his offensive prowess and footwork is 10 levels above any of those guys in addition to being a technician and defensive wizard?


One of those fights were at 130, and Floyd beat the living shit out of Chavez. Castillo, Cotto, and Maidana all brought a strength and physicality level that Loma simply does not have. Floyd would be the much stronger man at 130 and much more able to simply stand his ground, retreating only to set traps.

Also...

You may not have noticed, but I don't consider Lomachencko an elite offensive fighter, although his defensive is superb. How does he even get inside Floyd's jab to the body and his reach advantage to even mount a consistent offense? How does he take away Floyd's lead hook and deal with Floyd's own lateral movement? What about when Floyd starts digging around Loma's short arms with sweeping right hooks upstairs and down?


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> One of those fights were at 130, and Floyd beat the living shit out of Chavez. Castillo, Cotto, and Maidana all brought a strength and physicality level that Loma simply does not have. Floyd would be the much stronger man at 130 and much more able to simply stand his ground, retreating only to set traps.
> 
> Also...
> 
> You may not have noticed, but I don't consider Lomachencko an elite offensive fighter, although his defensive is superb. How does he even get inside Floyd's jab to the body and his reach advantage to even mount a consistent offense? How does he take away Floyd's lead hook and deal with Floyd's own lateral movement? What about when Floyd starts digging around Loma's short arms with sweeping right hooks upstairs and down?


The fact that you think Loma isn't an elite offensive fighter and you then go on to explain how impressed you are with Floyd's offense just shows everyone how delusional and biased you are. How did Augustus regularly land on Floyd and bust up his nose? Floyd at any weight is a fucking bum compared to Lomachenko, he wouldn't win a round. It's a bronze medallist who can't throw combinations against a double gold medallist who can do anything. There are levels, and Floyd could never get anywhere near Lomachenko. Rigondeaux would beat Floyd at 130, forget about Lomachenko.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

At 130, Floyd is going to hit you with his left hand. It's just too fast, too rangy, and too unpredictable. He's going to jab you in the face, and then in the belly. If you start defending against the jab to the body, he's going to start tagging you with lead hooks. And then he's going to incorporate all three and leave you guessing where the next punch is going.

And that's just his left hand...

Even at the end of his career, it was still a very good deterrent against offensive fighters.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> The fact that you think Loma isn't an elite offensive fighter and you then go on to explain how impressed you are with Floyd's offense just shows everyone how delusional and biased you are. How did Augustus regularly land on Floyd and bust up his nose? Floyd at any weight is a fucking bum compared to Lomachenko, he wouldn't win a round. It's a bronze medallist who can't throw combinations against a double gold medallist who can do anything. There are levels, and Floyd could never get anywhere near Lomachenko. Rigondeaux would beat Floyd at 130, forget about Lomachenko.


Floyd was comfortable against Augustus, fought in the pocket, beat him up and stopped him. Who cares about a busted nose? Noses bleed all the time, B. How did Rigo mark up Loma's face landing 15 punches all night? LOL

How many punches does Loma land on Floyd at 130, in his prime, if he can't even hit a 37 y/o, overweight Guillermo Rigondeaux?


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> One of those fights were at 130, and Floyd beat the living shit out of Chavez. Castillo, Cotto, and Maidana all brought a strength and physicality level that Loma simply does not have. Floyd would be the much stronger man at 130 and much more able to simply stand his ground, retreating only to set traps.
> 
> Also...
> 
> You may not have noticed, but I don't consider Lomachencko an elite offensive fighter, although his defensive is superb. How does he even get inside Floyd's jab to the body and his reach advantage to even mount a consistent offense? How does he take away Floyd's lead hook and deal with Floyd's own lateral movement? What about when Floyd starts digging around Loma's short arms with sweeping right hooks upstairs and down?


He might aswell have just said 'Maidana and Cotto have two arms and posed Floyd problems. Loma also has two arms'.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> He might aswell have just said 'Maidana and Cotto have two arms and posed Floyd problems. Loma also has two arms'.


I think they had tattoos, also. Can't forget that...


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Vysotsky said:


> 10 levels above


There is an electrifying man...





2017 Entrance of the Year.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Floyd was comfortable against Augustus, fought in the pocket, beat him up and stopped him. Who cares about a busted nose? Noses bleed all the time, B. How did Rigo mark up Loma's face landing 15 punches all night? LOL
> 
> How many punches does Loma land on Floyd at 130, in his prime, if he can't even hit a 37 y/o, overweight Guillermo Rigondeaux?


He wasn't comfortable at all against Augustus, he was getting slapped around in the pocket. 
Loma landed punches on an ultra defensive fighter, as you say Floyd likes to throw punches. Loma would beat the shit out of Floyd at 130, I have zero doubt in my mind. 
How about 150 pound Floyd against 130 pound Loma today? I would like to see it, Floyd would get humiliated.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> He wasn't comfortable at all against Augustus, he was getting slapped around in the pocket.
> Loma landed punches on an ultra defensive fighter, as you say Floyd likes to throw punches. Loma would beat the shit out of Floyd at 130, I have zero doubt in my mind.
> How about 150 pound Floyd against 130 pound Loma today? I would like to see it, Floyd would get humiliated.


You also said that Rigo would beat Floyd at 130, so I know that you aren't even being serious.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> You also said that Rigo would beat Floyd at 130, so I know that you aren't even being serious.


No, I truly believe that. Rigo is more skilled and patient than Floyd is. You think Judah and Corley cracking Floyd was bad, just imagine what Rigo would've done. Floyd should be 47-3, throughout his career he has never looked invincible like Roy Jones or Lomachenko. Floyd was great, James Toney level. Some fighters are next level though (Lomachenko, Jones).


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> No, I truly believe that. Rigo is more skilled and patient than Floyd is. You think Judah and Corley cracking Floyd was bad, just imagine what Rigo would've done. Floyd should be 47-3, throughout his career he has never looked invincible like Roy Jones or Lomachenko. Floyd was great, James Toney level. Some fighters are next level though (Lomachenko, Jones).


A) Corley and Judah fights were at 140 and 147, respectively
B) They are each bigger punchers than bantamweight Rigo
C) Floyd kicked both their asses and was on the way to stopping Judah, in more impressive fashion than Loma did against Rigo
D) Rigo is 37 years old
E) Loma has 10 fights; he doesn't have a 'career' yet; see me when he's fought in his third and fourth weight classes they way Floyd did with Judah and Corley

F) Did I mention that Rigo is a 37 year-old bantamweight?

G)You are literally smoking crack right now.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Rigo...vs Floyd? FFS Dealt With. Be real.


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## mrtony80 (Jun 8, 2013)

It’s a shame, because dealt with does seem to be reasonably knowledgeable when it comes to boxing, but his bias against Mayweather leads him to say stupid shit.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Rigo...vs Floyd? FFS Dealt With. Be real.


There's literally nothing that Floyd does better than Rigo. I can't see where Floyd could have success in that fight.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

mrtony80 said:


> It's a shame, because dealt with does seem to be reasonably knowledgeable when it comes to boxing, but his bias against Mayweather leads him to say stupid shit.


I'm not biased, I just know he isn't what people think he is. He isn't on the Roy Jones, Lomachenko level. He's a great but nowhere near the top, very beatable and very negative style. Has to plant to throw, can't throw combinations, defence extremely overrated. He's a guy who historically 'just did enough' to win.


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## mrtony80 (Jun 8, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> I'm not biased, I just know he isn't what people think he is. He isn't on the Roy Jones, Lomachenko level. He's a great but nowhere near the top, very beatable and very negative style. Has to plant to throw, can't throw combinations, defence extremely overrated. He's a guy who historically 'just did enough' to win.


Are you serious? If he was very beatable, he'd have been beaten, especially considering quite a few guys made it their mission to do so. Mayweather adjusted in fights he could've potentially lost...Judah, De La Hoya, Maidana...you say he should have three loses...against who? I'll give you Castillo, but who else? Defensively overrated? :lol: come on, man. Dude had ONE legit knockdown in 50 fights. Not a single fighter he fought would say his defense was overrated. He's one of the most intelligent, defensively sound fighters of all time. You are definitely biased.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

mrtony80 said:


> Are you serious? If he was very beatable, he'd have been beaten, especially considering quite a few guys made it their mission to do so. Mayweather adjusted in fights he could've potentially lost...Judah, De La Hoya, Maidana...you say he should have three loses...against who? I'll give you Castillo, but who else? Defensively overrated? :lol: come on, man. Dude had ONE legit knockdown in 50 fights. Not a single fighter he fought would say his defense was overrated. He's one of the most intelligent, defensively sound fighters of all time. You are definitely biased.


Castillo, Oscar, Maidana. Guys like Augustus and Cotto busted him up. Defense isn't impressive when it's on the back foot, employed in a negative manner. It's impressive when you're Whitaker, Lomachenko, Toney and you're using it on the inside to set up your attack. Actually have a look at Floyd on the inside, he gets hit a lot. That's why he switched to his outside, potshot style. He's a very intelligent fighter and a good businessman. I have no reason to be biased against him, I'm simply calling it as I see it. I'm not a Pac fan. I think a younger Pac would've beaten him as well.


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## saul_ir34 (Jun 8, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> No, I truly believe that. Rigo is more skilled and patient than Floyd is. You think Judah and Corley cracking Floyd was bad, just imagine what Rigo would've done. Floyd should be 47-3, throughout his career he has never looked invincible like Roy Jones or Lomachenko. Floyd was great, James Toney level. Some fighters are next level though (Lomachenko, Jones).


Yep. Man you know alot about boxing. Are you a boxing proffesor?


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

saul_ir34 said:


> Yep. Man you know alot about boxing. Are you a boxing proffesor?


Nah, I probably seem like one to someone as dumb as you though.


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

Lomachenko along with roy jones and toney is the most gifted fighter I ever seen. Garcia isn't even that technical so I have no clue what the fuck some people are on about. Salido fouled his way to W. Loma ain't having it anymore, I like how his attitude has changed from that salido fight. 

He has a nasty streak in him now. He won't be puttin up with the fouls anymore. he didn't even wanna touch gloves with rigo. Love how he clipped Guillermo after the bell to show him he's not with the dirty shit. Hands down the best in the world


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Brnxhands said:


> Lomachenko along with roy jones and toney is the most gifted fighter I ever seen. Garcia isn't even that technical so I have no clue what the fuck some people are on about. Salido fouled his way to W. Loma ain't having it anymore, I like how his attitude has changed from that salido fight.
> 
> He has a nasty streak in him now. He won't be puttin up with the fouls anymore. he didn't even wanna touch gloves with rigo. Love how he clipped Guillermo after the bell to show him he's not with the dirty shit. Hands down the best in the world


Some would say that he should have clipped Rigondeaux a wee bit more during the rounds.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Some would say that he should have clipped Rigondeaux a wee bit more during the rounds.


Yeah, because Rigo is a face first come forward fighter giving plenty of opportunities. You've always been borderline mentally challenged. Have you ever had your iq tested? I'm guessing in the 60-70 range


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Nah, I probably seem like one to someone as dumb as you though.


:lol:

Bravo.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> There's literally nothing that Floyd does better than Rigo. I can't see where Floyd could have success in that fight.


Floyd actually has a jab and two hands for starters


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Floyd actually has a jab and two hands for starters


He throws one punch at a time, he may as well only have one hand.


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

Rigo got touched up real nice. Something must have made his ass quit and it wasn't a hand injury. He should have did a better job fakin that cause he was moving his hand just fine when his gloves came off. He talked all that shit then bailed lol.


steviebruno said:


> Some would say that he should have clipped Rigondeaux a wee bit more during the rounds.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> He throws one punch at a time, he may as well only have one hand.


 At 130?


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Brnxhands said:


> Rigo got touched up real nice. Something must have made his ass quit and it wasn't a hand injury. He should have did a better job fakin that cause he was moving his hand just fine when his gloves came off. He talked all that shit then bailed lol.


That 'something' was that 400k that he secured. He never showed up prepared to deal with any adversity and quit as soon as it was no longer possible for him to win on points.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> At 130?


He couldn't throw fluid combinations at any stage of his career. At least he tried in the lighter weights, but he'd take too many punches. That's why when he moved up he was a potshot artist.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> He couldn't throw fluid combinations at any stage of his career. At least he tried in the lighter weights, but he'd take too many punches. That's why when he moved up he was a potshot artist.


 And you think Rigondeaux is better in that regard?


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> And you think Rigondeaux is better in that regard?


No, about the same but Rigo is more fluid and powerful with his punches.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> No, about the same but Rigo is more fluid and powerful with his punches.


Jay-Z - 'A wise man told me don't argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who.'


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Jay-Z - 'A wise man told me don't argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who.'


That's some good advice. I'd ether you anyway.


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## mrtony80 (Jun 8, 2013)

Dealt with is obviously hyping Rigo over Mayweather to make Loma’s victory more impressive and noteworthy. :rolleyes

Please tell us in what way is Lomachenko smarter than Mayweather in the ring? You say 0-0 Lomachenko could best 130 Mayweather, right? Explain to me that despite how advanced Loma was even then, explain how he couldn’t do something Mayweather has done several times in his career...adjust when things aren’t going his way? Why couldn’t he adjust vs Salido? And Salido’s win wasn’t completely based on dirty tactics. He was lighting Loma up with body shots. Explain to me how Rigo is better defensively than Mayweather. Rigo got dropped what, four times? Mayweather’s only knockdown came from grazing the calories canvas with his glove. As far as I can recall, only one guy caught Mayweather with combos upstairs, and that’s Corley. I just don’t know where you get off saying his defense is overrated.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Floyd threw stunning combinations down at 130.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

@V-2 can vouch to this. 3 years ago when Rigondeaux's aura was highest, we'd still talk about how superior Floyd was especially with his ambidextrous attack. Commentators used to talk about how his left hook was his best punch earlier in his career. Then he turned into a lead right sniper. Later relied on his jab more. I can point to particular fights where he dominated with a certain punch.

Canelo: jab
Corrales: left hook
Chavez: right uppercut
Cotto: left uppercut and right hook
Mosley: right hand
N'Dou: overhand right


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

mrtony80 said:


> Dealt with is obviously hyping Rigo over Mayweather to make Loma's victory more impressive and noteworthy. :rolleyes
> 
> Please tell us in what way is Lomachenko smarter than Mayweather in the ring? You say 0-0 Lomachenko could best 130 Mayweather, right? Explain to me that despite how advanced Loma was even then, explain how he couldn't do something Mayweather has done several times in his career...adjust when things aren't going his way? Why couldn't he adjust vs Salido? And Salido's win wasn't completely based on dirty tactics. He was lighting Loma up with body shots. Explain to me how Rigo is better defensively than Mayweather. Rigo got dropped what, four times? Mayweather's only knockdown came from grazing the calories canvas with his glove. As far as I can recall, only one guy caught Mayweather with combos upstairs, and that's Corley. I just don't know where you get off saying his defense is overrated.


Lomachenko against Salido is the definition of adjusting. Shots below the belt aren't body shots. Rigo's chin isn't as good as Floyd's, but he got hit far less. Watch Floyd's fights, he's taken punishment in many fights. Floyd could have easily taken L's in the Castillo and Maidana fights. A big part of why he got the nod in those fights is because he was deep into his career and had a rep. Hopkins has better victories and better defence than Floyd, despite not being as athletically gifted. 
Why would I have an agenda against Floyd? He's retired, I'm not a Pac fan or a fan of any of his rivals. I just tell it for what it is, true boxing fans know that Floyd and his career had a heavy dose of smoke and mirrors. Never before has a career been managed so carefully and so well.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Floyd threw stunning combinations down at 130.


Nonsense, he'd pause between every punch in a combination. That's why Augustus would dance punches into his face on the inside with regularity.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> @V-2 can vouch to this. 3 years ago when Rigondeaux's aura was highest, we'd still talk about how superior Floyd was especially with his ambidextrous attack. Commentators used to talk about how his left hook was his best punch earlier in his career. Then he turned into a lead right sniper. Later relied on his jab more. I can point to particular fights where he dominated with a certain punch.
> 
> Canelo: jab
> Corrales: left hook
> ...


Canelo: jab to avoid getting too close to the stronger man
Corrales: face first fighter vulnerable to every punch 
Cotto: had no right hand and has always been vulnerable to uppercuts with his earmuff, lean forward defence. Floyd didn't dominate with shit in that fight.

Why do Floyd fans jizz over basic shit and basic performances? It's like because it's Floyd every mediocre performance is touted as a masterpiece of adjustment and supreme boxing ability/iq. It's just a negative boxer who does just enough to win.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Canelo: jab to avoid getting too close to the stronger man
> Corrales: face first fighter vulnerable to every punch
> Cotto: had no right hand and has always been vulnerable to uppercuts with his earmuff, lean forward defence. Floyd didn't dominate with shit in that fight.
> 
> Why do Floyd fans jizz over basic shit and basic performances? It's like because it's Floyd every mediocre performance is touted as a masterpiece of adjustment and supreme boxing ability/iq. It's just a negative boxer who does just enough to win.


basic? :lunny




























I love Rigodneaux, but Floyd is so more versatile than him. And these clips are from an old Floyd. He used to throw lead left hooks to the body and triple left hooks at 130. Rigondeaux can paw and measure with his lead hand.


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## V-2 (Jan 1, 2017)

__
http://instagr.am/p/BcAsKgEHAca/


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> basic? :lunny
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why would I be impressed with out of context gifs against lead feet, small face first, and small fat?
I could make a video making Floyd look like the worst fighter in the world.
Rigo's right hook was good against Donaire. That Donaire victory being better than any of Floyd's wins.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

V-2 said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BcAsKgEHAca/


Floyd has to be at least slightly homosexual. Look at that guy. I think Floyd knows on some level that Lomachenko is his boxing superior, he's gone to Akkerman to worship at the temple.


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## V-2 (Jan 1, 2017)

Dealt_with said:


> Floyd has to be at least slightly homosexual. Look at that guy.


Not always much of a reliable indicator tbf, but his fashion sense is great amusement.


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## mrtony80 (Jun 8, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> I could make a video making Floyd look like the worst fighter in the world.


I know this is slight hyperbole, but come on, man. You say Floyd has been "battered" in many fights. Seriously? He made it through his entire career w/o ever being battered. You point out all of these weaknesses he supposedly had, but he's 50-0. The fact that he had guys gunning for him giving their all to be the one who beats him, yet nobody did should tell you something. And you can't seriously think Maidana beat him in the first fight. Maidana did well, won maybe 5 rounds. The first Castillo fight is the only truly debatable fight of Floyd's career.

And Lomachenko did adjust vs Salido...when it was too late. In the meantime, Mayweather adjusted to Mosley in the very next round after he was hurt.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Why would I be impressed with out of context gifs against lead feet, small face first, and small fat?
> I could make a video making Floyd look like the worst fighter in the world.
> Rigo's right hook was good against Donaire. That Donaire victory being better than any of Floyd's wins.


Ok but who has Lomachenko beaten?

t rex arms?
37 year old midget?
glass heart? 
and an actual defeat to 14 losses?


----------



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

To all the posters being trolled by Dealt With:


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

mrtony80 said:


> I know this is slight hyperbole, but come on, man. You say Floyd has been "battered" in many fights. Seriously? He made it through his entire career w/o ever being battered. You point out all of these weaknesses he supposedly had, but he's 50-0. The fact that he had guys gunning for him giving their all to be the one who beats him, yet nobody did should tell you something. And you can't seriously think Maidana beat him in the first fight. Maidana did well, won maybe 5 rounds. The first Castillo fight is the only truly debatable fight of Floyd's career.
> 
> And Lomachenko did adjust vs Salido...when it was too late. In the meantime, Mayweather adjusted to Mosley in the very next round after he was hurt.


Floyd fans cling to that zero and avoid reality. We've seen Floyd rocked numerous times, bloodied up. Despite being an ultra cautious, defensive fighter. A highly debatable loss to Salido in your first 12 round fight is nowhere near as bad as Floyd's unofficial losses against Castillo and Maidana deep into his career. Lomachenko, an aggressive fighter will never take the damage Floyd has during his career and have as many close decisions or large portions of fights where he gets outboxed (DLH, Judah, Cotto etc.). A guy scraping out a victory in a negative manner is not adjusting, it's not impressive. That zero means jack shit, Whitaker had the more impressive wins and the more impressive career, and would've beaten Floyd.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Ok but who has Lomachenko beaten?
> 
> t rex arms?
> 37 year old midget?
> ...


Faster than anyone Floyd fought
More skilled than anyone Floyd fought
Only glass against the ATG Lomachenko
Not an actual defeat and better than Castillo/Maidana


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

rjjfan said:


> To all the posters being trolled by Dealt With:


I'm being 100% genuine here, I don't think much of Floyd or his career and I've always been consistent with that. The most impressed I've been with him is against Hatton and Canelo. Other than that....
I guess I enjoyed him beating up the punching bag Gatti. I'm not sure if I'd rate Hatton and Canelo over GRJ and Walters. Lomachenko is one good win away from surpassing Floyd's resume of feasting on B grade and past it fighters. And obviously Lomachenko is the far more dominant operator in the ring, like true ATG's he doesn't lose a round.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> I'm being 100% genuine here, I don't think much of Floyd or his career and I've always been consistent with that. The most impressed I've been with him is against Hatton and Canelo. Other than that....
> I guess I enjoyed him beating up the punching bag Gatti. I'm not sure if I'd rate Hatton and Canelo over GRJ and Walters. Lomachenko is one good win away from surpassing Floyd's resume of feasting on B grade and past it fighters. And obviously Lomachenko is the far more dominant operator in the ring, like true ATG's he doesn't lose a round.


Lost seven rounds to Salido.


----------



## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

Everytime someone mentions Mikey to be the guy to beat or even give Loma a tough fight I'm almost literally like









I don't see _anything_ skill-wise and/or style-wise that could pose any sort problem for Loma. Just analyze his technique/tactics vs Broner. He's wide open for counters, doesn't pull his gloves back (especially when he's unloading on his opponent on the ropes)- instead just leaved them on his opponent and loads up quite often. He counter-punched AB, yes, but he's absolutely not going to land basic counter shots on Loma because Loma doesn't move back in a straight line and will each and everytime be 2 or 3 steps/moves ahead of Mikey.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

V-2 said:


> Gaytastic





Dealt_with said:


> Pedders




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/943161686822932480


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

REDC said:


> Everytime someone mentions Mikey to be the guy to beat or even give Loma a tough fight I'm almost literally like
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's like Garcia fans think that it's inevitable that Garcia can land his best shot on Loma, that Garcia can't be hurt by Loma, and that Loma would be out cold if Mikey lands.Those presuppositions are at odds with the evidence. As you say Mikey makes mistakes, and his style is as basic as it comes. His athleticism isn't anything special, and I truly believe his power has been overrated even ignoring his weight draining.
As a Lomachenko fan I'm very comfortable at the thought of that fight, so much so that I don't even care to see it. The only fights that make me a bit nervous are a GRJ rematch and Crawford.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/943161686822932480


Apparently meant for Davis. But I'd love to see Floyd get clowned and stopped by a much smaller fighter. Floyd would never take it, his risks are calculated and he knows what he'd be up against and what he had to lose.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Apparently meant for Davis. But I'd love to see Floyd get clowned and stopped by a much smaller fighter. Floyd would never take it, his risks are calculated and he knows what he'd be up against and what he had to lose.


He'd at least have a chance against a 40 year old Mayweather, I'll give ya that.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> He'd at least have a chance against a 40 year old Mayweather, I'll give ya that.


You really have a hard on for this age thing. What do you make of Hopkins? He must be the ATG in your book considering his chronological age disadvantage in every fight.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> You really have a hard on for this age thing. What do you make of Hopkins? He must be the ATG in your book considering his chronological age disadvantage in every fight.


I think that Hopkins is an anamoly who peaked at ages 32-36 and went slowly downhill from there.

What do you think of the Roy Jones you've seen the past decade?

Which is more a common example of aging in the ring?


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> I think that Hopkins is an anamoly who peaked at ages 32-36 and went slowly downhill from there.
> 
> What do you think of the Roy Jones you've seen the past decade?
> 
> Which is more a common example of aging in the ring?


Floyd is a technician like Hopkins right, so being 40 and significantly bigger than Loma shouldn't be an issue right? We have a fight gentlemen.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Floyd is a technician like Hopkins right, so being 40 and significantly bigger than Loma shouldn't be an issue right? We have a fight gentlemen.


I notice that you didn't answer the question. What do you think of the Roy Jones that we've seen the past decade, and is that not a more common example of aging in the ring?

Floyd Mayweather isn't like Roy Jones, but he also isn't like Bernard Hopkins. He was far more reliant on his physical gifts, reaction time, and fast twitch muscle fibers than BHop, yet still managed to maintain a semblance of who he was into his late 30s, which Roy Jones could not do.

... Why haven't you compared Loma to Bernard Hopkins? I mean, he's a technical fighter, right?

Maybe he's more 'Alien' than he is 'Matrix'. Just a thought.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Floyd is a technician like Hopkins right, so being 40 and significantly bigger than Loma shouldn't be an issue right? We have a fight gentlemen.


Hopkins takes care of himself much more than Floyd does and is always training constantly.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

I wouldn't be confident picking a clear winner in a H2H match up between Lomachenko and Mayweather at 130. Writing off either guy completely seems a bad prediction to me atm.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> Apparently meant for Davis. But I'd love to see Floyd get clowned and stopped by a much smaller fighter. Floyd would never take it, his risks are calculated and he knows what he'd be up against and what he had to lose.





> Mayweather: If Lomachenko is So Great - Fight Mikey Garcia!




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/943557806120226816


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


>


I can't take Robert Garcia seriously when he talks about Lomachenko, he thinks Diego Corrales, JCC etc. would beat Lomachenko without question. Obviously when he has a family member in the picture...


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Kurushi said:


> I wouldn't be confident picking a clear winner in a H2H match up between Lomachenko and Mayweather at 130. Writing off either guy completely seems a bad prediction to me atm.


Nah, writing off Floyd is positively insane. Loma...he legitimately could get blasted out in that match up. Levels.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Nah, writing off Floyd is positively insane. Loma...he legitimately could get blasted out in that match up. Levels.


I haven't seen any argument yet to convince me that Mayweather would easily blast lomachenko out. Here's a thought; in Floyd's campaign at 130 who do you reckon was most similar to Lomachenko stylistically?


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Kurushi said:


> I haven't seen any argument yet to convince me that Mayweather would easily blast lomachenko out. Here's a thought; in Floyd's campaign at 130 who do you reckon was most similar to Lomachenko stylistically?


I'm not suggesting Floyd would definitely blast Lomachenko out at 130, only that it isn't beyond the realms of possibility considering we know Floyd hit hard at the weight and so far we haven't seen Loma take a real solid shot from a puncher. Now Floyd wasn't George Foreman at the weight but he stopped the majority of his opponents during his title reign and he did something Castillo couldn't do when he fought Corrales. No question about it, Floyd could punch as a Super Featherweight. So many questions loom over Lomachenko, who unfortunately fell short the one and only time he faced any kind of adversity. No such questions loom over Floyd, he proved time and time again that he was a complete fighter.

Nah, I think it's a premature fantasy match up. I need to see Lomachenko fight someone other than Russell first.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I'm not suggesting Floyd would definitely blast Lomachenko out at 130, only that it isn't beyond the realms of possibility considering we know Floyd hit hard at the weight and so far we haven't seen Loma take a real solid shot from a puncher. Now Floyd wasn't George Foreman at the weight but he stopped the majority of his opponents during his title reign and he did something Castillo couldn't do when he fought Corrales. No question about it, Floyd could punch as a Super Featherweight. So many questions loom over Lomachenko, who unfortunately fell short the one and only time he faced any kind of adversity. No such questions loom over Floyd, he proved time and time again that he was a complete fighter.
> 
> Nah, I think it's a premature fantasy match up. I need to see Lomachenko fight someone other than Russell first.


I see what you're saying. It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that Floyd could easily blast out Lomachenko. That's true. I don't think it'd be my prediction but it's not out of the realm of possibility. Likewise, however, there are a lot of eventualities to that fight that exist in the realm of possibility mainly because that realm is, by definition, the realm in which anything and everything can possibly happen. Anything that could possibly happen could definitely happen in this match up, I agree, but I wouldn't personally call all of those things strong predictions. It's not out of the realms of possibility that Loma could make Floyd quit but I wouldn't predict it. As it stands I'd say it's a competitive match up with Mayweather most reasonably being the favourite.

I'm curious though as to which one of Mayweather's opponents at 130 we could most liken to Loma.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Kurushi said:


> I see what you're saying. It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that Floyd could easily blast out Lomachenko. That's true. I don't think it'd be my prediction but it's not out of the realm of possibility. Likewise, however, there are a lot of eventualities to that fight that exist in the realm of possibility mainly because that realm is, by definition, the realm in which anything and everything can possibly happen. Anything that could possibly happen could definitely happen in this match up, I agree, but I wouldn't personally call all of those things strong predictions. It's not out of the realms of possibility that Loma could make Floyd quit but I wouldn't predict it. As it stands I'd say it's a competitive match up with Mayweather most reasonably being the favourite.
> 
> I'm curious though as to which one of Mayweather's opponents at 130 we could most liken to Loma.


This response comes across a little bit facetious. :lol:

Semantic games aside, the rational point was clear. We can rule out Lomachenko making Floyd quit because no fighter in his 50 fight career ever came close to managing it. Only a handful of the opponents even came close to winning never mind forcing a stoppage. Once more, Lomachenko doesn't appear to have the power to really trouble Floyd Mayweather who, unlike the Ukrainian, proved on a multitude of occasions that he has the capacity to weather big shots and still find a way to win. He overcame adversity whenever it was required of him. Again, unfortunately, the same cannot be said of the Ukrainian. Does this mean that Floyd absolutely, definitely wins a fantasy match up against Loma at 130lbs? No it does not, but what it does mean is that there is more reason to favour a Floyd Stoppage than a Loma stoppage. There's more reason to favour Floyd by any method then there is Loma by any method. That's all I'm saying.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> This response comes across a little bit facetious. :lol:
> 
> Semantic games aside, the rational point was clear. We can rule out Lomachenko making Floyd quit because no fighter in his 50 fight career ever came close to managing it. Only a handful of the opponents even came close to winning never mind forcing a stoppage. Once more, Lomachenko doesn't appear to have the power to really trouble Floyd Mayweather who, unlike the Ukrainian, proved on a multitude of occasions that he has the capacity to weather big shots and still find a way to win. He overcame adversity whenever it was required of him. Again, unfortunately, the same cannot be said of the Ukrainian. Does this mean that Floyd absolutely, definitely wins a fantasy match up against Loma at 130lbs? No it does not, but what it does mean is that there is more reason to favour a Floyd Stoppage than a Loma stoppage. There's more reason to favour Floyd by any method then there is Loma by any method. That's all I'm saying.


Yeah, I was having a little semantic fun  I know you take it in good faith. I honestly don't think we can rule out a lot because it's boxing. When it comes to what's most likely to happen though, Mayweather's opponents came as close to making him quit as Loma's opponents have come to blasting him out (i.e. not close at all). It doesn't appear to be Loma's power that is troubling his opponents. It appears to be (and it's an admittedly interesting area of discussion to look at what makes 4 guys in a row quit on their stool) his ability to take away from them any convictions they had of beating him. That is to say it's not like they've felt his power and then refused to get up/continue; they've actually decided, despite the lack of power you're suggesting Loma has, that they actually can't beat him so they won't bother trying.

I take a little exception to your opinion of Loma's lack of power. If someone felt they couldn't beat someone, they'd probably still continue, in my opinion, if they thought the guy didn't have power. I mean, losing on points saves more face than retiring right? So why retire if the guy ain't hurting you? So, while I'm convinced Mayweather has the edge in power vs Loma at 130, it factors very little into a scrutiny of which of Loma's aspects would trouble Floyd. Floyd is less likely to be troubled by Loma's power than he is by his potential inability to land on Vasyl.

Coincidentally they've both faced the same demands to overcome adversity (injured hands during a fight). Floyd took a knee in doing so but bravely fought on. Loma didn't take a knee but perhaps didn't have to givn the level of opposition.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Kurushi said:


> Yeah, I was having a little semantic fun  I know you take it in good faith. I honestly don't think we can rule out a lot because it's boxing. When it comes to what's most likely to happen though, Mayweather's opponents came as close to making him quit as Loma's opponents have come to blasting him out (i.e. not close at all). It doesn't appear to be Loma's power that is troubling his opponents. It appears to be (and it's an admittedly interesting area of discussion to look at what makes 4 guys in a row quit on their stool) his ability to take away from them any convictions they had of beating him. That is to say it's not like they've felt his power and then refused to get up/continue; they've actually decided, despite the lack of power you're suggesting Loma has, that they actually can't beat him so they won't bother trying.
> 
> I take a little exception to your opinion of Loma's lack of power. If someone felt they couldn't beat someone, they'd probably still continue, in my opinion, if they thought the guy didn't have power. I mean, losing on points saves more face than retiring right? So why retire if the guy ain't hurting you? So, while I'm convinced Mayweather has the edge in power vs Loma at 130, it factors very little into a scrutiny of which of Loma's aspects would trouble Floyd. Floyd is less likely to be troubled by Loma's power than he is by his potential inability to land on Vasyl.
> 
> Coincidentally they've both faced the same demands to overcome adversity (injured hands during a fight). Floyd took a knee in doing so but bravely fought on. Loma didn't take a knee but perhaps didn't have to givn the level of opposition.


:glenn2


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2017)

Has anyone said a black guy yet?


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

@Pedderrs

I don't like essays ✓
I lazily like your post ✓
Fury emoji ✓


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> This response comes across a little bit facetious. :lol:
> 
> Semantic games aside, the rational point was clear. We can rule out Lomachenko making Floyd quit because no fighter in his 50 fight career ever came close to managing it. Only a handful of the opponents even came close to winning never mind forcing a stoppage. Once more, Lomachenko doesn't appear to have the power to really trouble Floyd Mayweather who, unlike the Ukrainian, proved on a multitude of occasions that he has the capacity to weather big shots and still find a way to win. He overcame adversity whenever it was required of him. Again, unfortunately, the same cannot be said of the Ukrainian. Does this mean that Floyd absolutely, definitely wins a fantasy match up against Loma at 130lbs? No it does not, but what it does mean is that there is more reason to favour a Floyd Stoppage than a Loma stoppage. There's more reason to favour Floyd by any method then there is Loma by any method. That's all I'm saying.


Lots of fighters almost beat Floyd, lots of fighters busted Floyd up. Floyd never fought anyone who has a quarter of the skills Lomachenko has. There's no reason to think that Lomachenko wouldn't clown Floyd and win every round. Rigondeaux is at least as skilled as Floyd. Loma came up against adversity against Salido and prevailed other than on the scorecards, Floyd has never been in that much of a disadvantageous position. Even when Castillo and Maidana beat him he was the name who edged the close rounds, he wasn't up against the ref or anything else. Those were fair contests, not his second fight and first time going 12, not against the ref and an opponent who refused to make weight. Loma had the much bigger Salido holding on for life at the end of that contest. Floyd doesn't adapt, he just lands enough potshots to win a close decision in a negative style.

Floyd didn't fight anyone really good at 130, Floyd was tight at that weight and he never cold KO'd anyone like Lomachenko did to Martinez. Don't try to perpetuate that myth that Floyd was a puncher at 130. Even against bean pole Corrales who always looked shaky, Floyd was catching him with punches when he was off balance more than anything else. On the evidence Loma is the better puncher at 130, Loma has fought better opponents, Loma has been more dominant. That wouldn't be a competitive match up in the slightest. There are levels, and Floyd isn't on that Roy Jones/Lomachenko level. Not many are so there's no shame in that. Let's not look at revenue generated and that carefully and fortunately preserved zero to make Floyd into something he's not. A good fighter and a great businessman/WWE star.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> Lots of fighters almost beat Floyd, lots of fighters busted Floyd up. Floyd never fought anyone who has a quarter of the skills Lomachenko has. There's no reason to think that Lomachenko wouldn't clown Floyd and win every round. Rigondeaux is at least as skilled as Floyd. Loma came up against adversity against Salido and prevailed other than on the scorecards, Floyd has never been in that much of a disadvantageous position. Even when Castillo and Maidana beat him he was the name who edged the close rounds, he wasn't up against the ref or anything else. Those were fair contests, not his second fight and first time going 12, not against the ref and an opponent who refused to make weight. Loma had the much bigger Salido holding on for life at the end of that contest. Floyd doesn't adapt, he just lands enough potshots to win a close decision in a negative style.
> 
> Floyd didn't fight anyone really good at 130, Floyd was tight at that weight and he never cold KO'd anyone like Lomachenko did to Martinez. Don't try to perpetuate that myth that Floyd was a puncher at 130. Even against bean pole Corrales who always looked shaky, Floyd was catching him with punches when he was off balance more than anything else. On the evidence Loma is the better puncher at 130, Loma has fought better opponents, Loma has been more dominant. That wouldn't be a competitive match up in the slightest. There are levels, and Floyd isn't on that Roy Jones/Lomachenko level. Not many are so there's no shame in that. Let's not look at revenue generated and that carefully and fortunately preserved zero to make Floyd into something he's not. A good fighter and a great businessman/WWE star.


:lol: Come on dude, you've lost your subtlety. Your trolling is blatantly obvious now.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Kurushi said:


> @Kurushi
> 
> I like mental gymnastics ✓


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Rob said:


> Has anyone said a black guy yet?


Slickness is NOT the answer.

Speed and power is the answer. (ARE the answer?)

- Runs for cover ......


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> :lol: Come on dude, you've lost your subtlety. Your trolling is blatantly obvious now.


Especially 130 pound Floyd, who showed weakness against southpaws exponentially inferior to Lomachenko. I don't see how Floyd would win a round, he's tailor made for Lomachenko. That's not trolling at all, that's just what it is. Maybe when Lomachenko doesn't lose a round to Garcia you'll start to understand.


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## godsavethequeen (Jun 12, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Especially 130 pound Floyd, who showed weakness against southpaws exponentially inferior to Lomachenko. I don't see how Floyd would win a round, he's tailor made for Lomachenko. That's not trolling at all, that's just what it is. Maybe when Lomachenko doesn't lose a round to Garcia you'll start to understand.


Thanks for the laugh... I hate Floyd but you are talking utter bias drivel.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

godsavethequeen said:


> Thanks for the laugh... I hate Floyd but you are talking utter bias drivel.


How so? My opinion is subjective and speculative like everybody else's, but mine is based on the available evidence.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

I think only the mythical Thor could beat Lomachenko in a 3 round match but not over 8.


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## godsavethequeen (Jun 12, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> How so? My opinion is subjective and speculative like everybody else's, but mine is based on the available evidence.


Subjective against what? And 100% yes its Speculative.
For Starters he lost, he beat Roman a guy the guy ( Salido ) that beat Loma. His best win on there is Nicholas Walters FFS who's best win was an already schooled Donnaire. PBF would easily win over 12 against Loma back then PBF was on another level and worked out his opponents a lot quicker than he did in his later years.

I agree Loma is a massive talent in the here and now, but you are over extending with your idea that he beats PBF at 130 if at any weight.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

godsavethequeen said:


> Subjective against what? And 100% yes its Speculative.
> For Starters he lost, he beat Roman a guy the guy ( Salido ) that beat Loma. His best win on there is Nicholas Walters FFS who's best win was an already schooled Donnaire. PBF would easily win over 12 against Loma back then PBF was on another level and worked out his opponents a lot quicker than he did in his later years.
> 
> I agree Loma is a massive talent in the here and now, but you are over extending with your idea that he beats PBF at 130 if at any weight.


You're talking out your ass. Walters, GRJ and Rigo are better than anyone Floyd beat around those weight classes. You say you're not a Floyd fan and yet you've created a mythical fighter. To say PBF would easily win when he was dropped and dropped rounds against guys like Corley, Judah etc.
Please.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> Floyd would never take it, his risks are calculated and he knows what he'd be up against and what he had to lose.


These infidels worship their false idols - but even they know what would happen


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## godsavethequeen (Jun 12, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> You're talking out your ass. Walters, GRJ and Rigo are better than anyone Floyd beat around those weight classes. You say you're not a Floyd fan and yet you've created a mythical fighter. To say PBF would easily win when he was dropped and dropped rounds against guys like Corley, Judah etc.
> Please.


GTFOH Do not use Rigo as a defence that guy PURE quit, Loma said its not a good W on his record. PMSL GRjnr you are having a laugh now. I did point out that Walters was his best win who moved up a weight class to fight Loma. Corrales beats all of the Loma opposition at their state that Loma beat them, lets not forget Corrales had defended that title 4 times before being dethroned. Hernandez had multiple title fights also. So yeah Better than Loma's opposition as yet. Get over it you sad deluded twerp


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Still wondering who Mayweather fought at 130 that is stylistically similar to Lomachenko.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


>


That's not a haiku :sad2


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Yeah, and I'm still wondering who Michael Spinks fought at 175lbs that was stylistically similiar to Kovalev. :think


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Still wondering who Mayweather fought at 130 that is stylistically similar to Lomachenko.


No one. The closest we have are B and C grade southpaws at other weights who gave Floyd trouble. Then there was shot Pacman, who also put Floyd in bitch mode and took rounds.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

godsavethequeen said:


> GTFOH Do not use Rigo as a defence that guy PURE quit, Loma said its not a good W on his record. PMSL GRjnr you are having a laugh now. I did point out that Walters was his best win who moved up a weight class to fight Loma. Corrales beats all of the Loma opposition at their state that Loma beat them, lets not forget Corrales had defended that title 4 times before being dethroned. Hernandez had multiple title fights also. So yeah Better than Loma's opposition as yet. Get over it you sad deluded twerp


Floyd would quit as well. GRJ would beat Corrales at 130. No, Loma moved up a weight class to fight Walters. That there shows your bias. Martinez had title fights, so what. I'd pick Walters to crack Corrales jaw at 130, same with Rigo. It's hilarious that Floyd fans talk about Floyd being an ATG at 130 when his best win was Corrales. RIP, heart of a champion but not an A class fighter at any point.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

rjjfan said:


> I think only the mythical Thor could beat Lomachenko in a 3 round match but not over 8.


Someone like Roberto Duran. Floyd Mayweather... please. Castillo and Maidana are stylistically far harder fights for Lomachenko. Floyd is so lucky he wasn't around at the same time as Lomachenko. Not that Floyd would ever entertain the thought of fighting a great fighter in their prime. I mean look at what old DLH did to him, Cotto hacked him up as well. Floyd ducked Margarito for good reason.
It's almost unbelievable how overrated Floyd is, but then I think about all the WWE fans and all the imbeciles who are impressed by money. What happens in the ring obviously doesn't matter, Floyd played the bad guy and constantly fought like a bitch, stinking the place out with his negative tactics and potshotting. It just shows how little boxing actually matters in becoming a boxing star. Oh wait he had that zero, that means a lot to the casual and the dumbass.


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## godsavethequeen (Jun 12, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Floyd would quit as well. GRJ would beat Corrales at 130. No, Loma moved up a weight class to fight Walters. That there shows your bias. Martinez had title fights, so what. I'd pick Walters to crack Corrales jaw at 130, same with Rigo. It's hilarious that Floyd fans talk about Floyd being an ATG at 130 when his best win was Corrales. RIP, heart of a champion but not an A class fighter at any point.


You are a Dullard. Walters was the Feather weight world Champion FFS get your facts right Loma fought at SFW the fight before. 
You can not be taken seriously as your fact suck like you suck CoCk. 
Don't bother yourself replying, I have no interest talking with an Idiot


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

godsavethequeen said:


> You are a Dullard. Walters was the Feather weight world Champion FFS get your facts right Loma fought at SFW the fight before.
> You can not be taken seriously as your fact suck like you suck CoCk.
> Don't bother yourself replying, I have no interest talking with an Idiot


No he wasn't you fucking retard. Walters couldn't make weight against Marriaga and never went back to featherweight. Now look at the date Lomachenko made his 130 debut against Martinez.
Say sorry you weak biased bitch, you get your facts straight you fucking spastic. 
Can't take you seriously, don't bother replying.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

godsavethequeen said:


> You are a Dullard. Walters was the Feather weight world Champion FFS get your facts right Loma fought at SFW the fight before.
> You can not be taken seriously as your fact suck like you suck CoCk.
> Don't bother yourself replying, I have no interest talking with an Idiot


http://www.boxingscene.com/lomachenko-ready-willing-fight-nicholas-walters-126-130--101778

Lomachenko had to chase Walters to 130, Walters suddenly couldn't make weight anymore so Loma had to move up to make it happen.
Did you not follow boxing at the time? Or are you just a liar? Or just dumb?


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

Prime Hamed


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## godsavethequeen (Jun 12, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> http://www.boxingscene.com/lomachenko-ready-willing-fight-nicholas-walters-126-130--101778
> 
> Lomachenko had to chase Walters to 130, Walters suddenly couldn't make weight anymore so Loma had to move up to make it happen.
> Did you not follow boxing at the time? Or are you just a liar? Or just dumb?


Wrong or not I am not apologising to a fan boi with an aching Vagina who resorts to sending PMs pmsl 
Walters was fighting at FW making weight or not dumbass. Give it a rest ******. Take a look at your post to like ratio it tells people so much


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

godsavethequeen said:


> Wrong or not I am not apologising to a fan boi with an aching Vagina who resorts to sending PMs pmsl
> Walters was fighting at FW making weight or not dumbass. Give it a rest ******. Take a look at your post to like ratio it tells people so much


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


>


Our strengths are our weaknesses.

Loma isn't truly feather fisted - a la Malignaggi, Yuh etc.

And Vasya, unlike Cal, does have a proper punching technique.

The problem is a fighter who fights the way he does - everything comes from the legs/everything revolves around the legs - needs to have good natural power to be able to really punch - as his movement and angles depend on him not putting weight behind his punches.

Naturally _(relatively) _heavy-handed?
You're El Gato, Napoles, etc.

Below average natural power?
You're Kalule.

Usyk - who is Loma-lite - is a better target for this kind of criticism - he is naturally more heavy-handed but his punches lack Vasya's snap and some his hooks are borderline slaps - not technically but delivery-wise.


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## Salty Dog (Jun 5, 2013)

Crawford.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

godsavethequeen said:


> Wrong or not I am not apologising to a fan boi with an aching Vagina who resorts to sending PMs pmsl
> Walters was fighting at FW making weight or not dumbass. Give it a rest ******. Take a look at your post to like ratio it tells people so much


Look at when most of my posts were made, and think about how much of a loser you'd have to be to actually care about that and notice it.
Sad. You were wrong you vagina.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> You're talking out your ass. Walters, GRJ and Rigo are better than anyone Floyd beat around those weight classes. You say you're not a Floyd fan and yet you've created a mythical fighter. To say PBF would easily win when he was dropped and dropped rounds against guys like Corley, Judah etc.
> Please.


Corrales decapitates each. Chavez beats all of them. Genaro Hernandez was less shot than Rigondeaux and more accomplished at the weight.

Walters is Loma's best win, to date, so it's perfectly fair to temper the excitement. If he does what you said he'd do to Garcia, well that is something different altogether.

He is Lomachenko's Castillo.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Corrales decapitates each. Chavez beats all of them. Genaro Hernandez was less shot than Rigondeaux and more accomplished at the weight.
> 
> Walters is Loma's best win, to date, so it's perfectly fair to temper the excitement. If he does what you said he'd do to Garcia, well that is something different altogether.
> 
> He is Lomachenko's Castillo.


Garcia :lol:
More like he's Lomachenko's Gatti.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Garcia :lol:
> More like he's Lomachenko's Gatti.


We'll see, hopefully...


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## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> Garcia :lol:
> More like he's Lomachenko's Gatti.


I usually ignore all your bollox, but I'm feeling curious.

What has to be missing in a mans life, for him to spend hours obsessing over a stranger online, defending him and talking him up in every hypothetical situation imaginable? Sometimes with anger that others can't see his point of view? Or don't subscribe to his hero worship?

I get that we're here to talk Boxing and should all share a mutual appreciation for the sport as a bare minimum, but what is it that makes someone centralise around one figure, and be so determined to have everyone see it his way?

(I've worded that very nicely. Please engage, or I'll be forced to do what everyone else does and treat you with the contempt that all this fannying about deserves.)


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## The Kraken (Apr 19, 2014)

At least someone who knows how to pull back out of the clinch to make room for a punch


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> I usually ignore all your bollox, but I'm feeling curious.
> 
> What has to be missing in a mans life, for him to spend hours obsessing over a stranger online, defending him and talking him up in every hypothetical situation imaginable? Sometimes with anger that others can't see his point of view? Or don't subscribe to his hero worship?
> 
> ...


You're missing my other posts then. I don't give a shit if people see what I see or not. The truth is the truth and I point it out. I am never angry when posting, sorry if I've given that impression. I'd say I have a fairly balanced and compete life. Posting on here takes a very small percentage out of my time, I have a high verbal IQ so it's possible that my posts give the impression of time and effort. For me it's the same as posting a Facebook comment when I have 5 minutes here or there.


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## saul_ir34 (Jun 8, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> You're missing my other posts then. I don't give a shit if people see what I see or not. The truth is the truth and I point it out. I am never angry when posting, sorry if I've given that impression. I'd say I have a fairly balanced and compete life. Posting on here takes a very small percentage out of my time, I have a high verbal IQ so it's possible that my posts give the impression of time and effort. For me it's the same as posting a Facebook comment when I have 5 minutes here or there.


Salido 1
Lomachenko 0

All your fanboy posts will never change that.


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