# What is better? Victories over out of prime Morales and Barrera vs In prime Corrales and Castillo



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

What do you consider better?

Floyd's victories over in prime Corrales and Castillo or Manny's victory over an out of prime Morales and Barrera?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Barrera was very close to his prime, the question is flawed. If you're going to nitpick, might as well call Castillo 1 a loss and Corrales drained.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

The quality of the wins probably goes like this:

Barrera
Castillo
Corrales
Morales


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Barrera was very close to his prime, the question is flawed. If you're going to nitpick, might as well call Castillo 1 a loss and Corrales drained.


If people disagree then would vote that in consideration


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Barrera was very close to his prime, the question is flawed. If you're going to nitpick, might as well call Castillo 1 a loss and Corrales drained.


Flomos:


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> If people disagree then would vote that in consideration


I guess so.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

As a combo of 2 wins, Manny's. Most people will just go by names rather than the actual context of fights.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

I forgot to add that they should justify their vote as well. And i forgot to make vote public.

For my reason it is bc they were both at the top of their division and the man to beat at the time when Floyd fought them.
Manny fought an out of shape, out of prime, and coming off loss to Raheem and had to drop from 180lbs to meet Pac for the rematch. Barrera, although is on a winning streak but he a near death blood clot incident in boxing. Not as bad of shape as Morales but still that needs to be considered.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

The second fight against Morales is pretty significant because Morales had just beaten Pacquiao, plus Morales would go on to be competitive against some quality fighters in his late years.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> The second fight against Morales is pretty significant because Morales had just beaten Pacquiao, plus Morales would go on to be competitive against some quality fighters in his late years.


there was two other unknowns that have beaten paciquao as well. Just FYI.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> there was two other unknowns that have beaten paciquao as well. Just FYI.


What does that have to do with the thread question?


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> What does that have to do with the thread question?


How about the fact that beating Pac earlier in his career was not a crazy achievement.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> How about the fact that beating Pac earlier in his career was not a crazy achievement.


So you're saying the Pacquiao that was good enough to beat ATG Barrera in 2003-his best win-is not a good scalp because he lost in 1996 and 1993 before he even met Freddie Roach?

Your bias is ridiculous.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> So you're saying the Pacquiao that was good enough to beat ATG Barrera in 2003-his best win-is not a good scalp because he lost in 1996 and 1993 before he even met Freddie Roach?
> 
> Your bias is ridiculous.


Quit making excuses. Pac lost to an out of prime Morales as well. Morales was on his way out constantly gaining weight up to 50lbs inbetween camps and he lost to Raheem the next match. So obviously he wasn't unbeatable at anytime in his career. He stumbled before roach, and with Roach. With and without Ariza.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Quit making excuses. Pac lost to an out of prime Morales as well. Morales was on his way out constantly gaining weight up to 50lbs inbetween camps and he lost to Raheem the next match. So obviously he wasn't unbeatable at anytime in his career. He stumbled before roach, and with Roach. With and without Ariza.


There's a HUGE difference between losing a competitive decision Morales (later to be avenged), and losing by KO to Turrecampo and Singsurat. The former is not stumbling, that's making history.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> There's a HUGE difference between losing a competitive decision Morales (later to be avenged), and losing by KO to Turrecampo and Singsurat. The former is not stumbling, that's making history.


yeah ok. Raheem shuts Morales out the very next match and where is his career? You never run out of excuses don't you?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> yeah ok. Raheem shuts Morales out the very next match and where is his career? You never run out of excuses don't you?


Excuses for what? You're the one desperately trying to shit on Pacquiao, as usual.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Excuses for what? You're the one desperately trying to shit on Pacquiao, as usual.


Thats a lie again. I speak very highly of Pac as well. I have said his ability to jump multiple weights is great.


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

Barrera 1 is a better win than Correlas/Castillo. Morales was past it, honestly. It's amazing what a past it Morales did with Pac, but it was clearly not the same Morales in the 2nd fight. He had seen his best days and was drained. I don't think that was a better win, honestly. But historically it will be seen as so, Morales is an ATG, so the win will age well and it is a good win, so from this perspective it will be seen as the better win vs correlas/castillo unless either makes it to the HOF, but i doubt it. But Barrera one definitely is, he may have been on a decline, but he was still primed, sure not Hamed/Morales 1 primed... but still primed.


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## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

Barrera was considered at his peak and a top 3 P4P fighter heading into the first Pacquiao fight. The notion that Pacquiao beat an "out of prime" Barrera in their first fight is completely revisionist.


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## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> The quality of the wins probably goes like this:
> 
> Barrera
> Castillo
> ...


I think that's a fair assessment.


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## pipe wrenched (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> I forgot to add that they should justify their vote as well. And i forgot to make vote public.
> 
> For my reason it is bc they were both at the top of their division and the man to beat at the time when Floyd fought them.
> Manny fought an out of shape, out of prime, and coming off loss to Raheem and had to drop from 180lbs to meet Pac for the rematch. Barrera, although is on a winning streak but he a near death blood clot incident in boxing. Not as bad of shape as Morales but still that needs to be considered.


Not that Im lookin' to get involved here, but it's often forgotten that Barrera had a forest fire that fucked up his camp as well :conf


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

Castillo was Pac's sparring partner..

what does that tell you?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> I think that's a fair assessment.


You do have to give Morales credit for fighting the way he did in the Pac rematch though. He looked to be winning until Pac hurt and overwhelmed him.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Morales is a guy who would give fighters trouble even when he's 90. Look at the issues ancient Morales gave Garcia. Pac fought the younger version 3 times, and Barrera twice. Corrales and Castillo are well below those two fighters, Floyd fought Corrales once and arguably went 1-1 with Castillo.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> Barrera was considered at his peak and a top 3 P4P fighter heading into the first Pacquiao fight. The notion that Pacquiao beat an "out of prime" Barrera in their first fight is completely revisionist.


Floyd is also out of prime and p4p number 1.


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## r1p00pk (Jun 13, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Thats a lie again.* I speak very highly of Pac as well*. I have said his ability to jump multiple weights is great.


havnt really seen it, lately at least lol


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Morales is a guy who would give fighters trouble even when he's 90. Look at the issues ancient Morales gave Garcia. Pac fought the younger version 3 times, and Barrera twice. Corrales and Castillo are well below those two fighters, Floyd fought Corrales once and arguably went 1-1 with Castillo.


I disagree. This is another case of a certain group of people trying to exaggerate.

Castillo and Corrales both belong in the same class as Morales and Barrera. As for what names worth more that is still left to be decided.
Castillo was able to give Floyd a tough fight so how is he so much below? Plus they both got wins over each other is same as Barrera and Morales.

All 4 got good wins under their belts. Tapia, Hamed, each other. Casamayor, frietas, each other.

So cut the bullcrap about one is way better. The exaggeration is sickening.

Bottomline is the deciding factor was that Corrales and Castillo were both peaked primed.
If people wanted to discredit Floyd's wins over Oscar and SHane who he fought after an impressive victory over Mayorga and Margarito how the Fuck are the same people going to overated the barrera and especially Morales win?

In prime elite >>>>>>> out of prime elite BC LAST TIME I CHECKED THE SAME HATERS DIDN'T WANT TO GIVE FLOYD CREDIT FOR THOSE TWO VICTORIES.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Again I repeat.

The same people (the usual suspects) who dog the shit out of Floyd's wins over Oscar and Shane ARE THE SAME ONES OVERATING PAC'S WINS OVER BARRERA AND MORALES.

If that doesn't showed their true agenda. I don't know wtf is.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

The thing is, Morales and Barrera are considered well above. Certified ATG's, without question. Castillo and Corrales are not. That's what you fail to grasp.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> The thing is, Morales and Barrera are considered well above. Certified ATG's, without question. Castillo and Corrales are not. That's what you fail to grasp.


oh shut up. exaggerator.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> oh shut up. exaggerator.


Mad you losing on both polls? LOL


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> The quality of the wins probably goes like this:
> 
> Barrera
> Castillo
> ...


Completely agree with that order.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> The thing is, Morales and Barrera are considered well above. Certified ATG's, without question. Castillo and Corrales are not. That's what you fail to grasp.


This.
But tilang believes that Castillo is greater than Saddler. It's not even worth conversing with someone that out of touch with reality.


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## uraharakisuke (May 16, 2013)

I like the Corrales win a lot. Re-watching the fight you see Floyd put on a masterclass against a bigger, longer, harder fighter.

Manny still inches this though.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> This.
> But tilang believes that Castillo is greater than Saddler. It's not even worth conversing with someone that out of touch with reality.


You are just a parrot. You are the type of people that will believe what the media tells you. You want to pretend you know so much in boxing along with the others. Thinking you are cool for throwing some names out but in reality you don't know shit.

You have a problem with what i say about Saddler but yet you don't put any arguement to disprove me.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> You are just a parrot. You are the type of people that will believe what the media tells you. You want to pretend you know so much in boxing along with the others. Thinking you are cool for throwing some names out but in reality you don't know shit.


Do you even like boxing outside of Floyd? You really give off the impression that you're a fan of Floyd and everything revolves around him, you probably think Baldomir and Guerrero are better than Hagler and Hearns because they shared the ring with the great one. Am I correct?


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Mad you losing on both polls? LOL


LOL. If i listen to half of the people on this site i would be in trouble. 
Oddsmakers make money off your type, not mine. Just remember that.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Do you even like boxing outside of Floyd? You really give off the impression that you're a fan of Floyd and everything revolves around him, you probably think Baldomir and Guerrero are better than Hagler and Hearns because they shared the ring with the great one. Am I correct?


No, you are just retarded when it comes to Floyd. You along with the usual suspects.
I defend him bc people are way off in terms of his resume. Put it this way. Well you and the others are trying to discredit Floyd on a daily basis, i've been saying things what bhop along with other boxers are saying about Floyd. *Thats the difference.*


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> No, you are just retarded when it comes to Floyd. You along with the usual suspects.
> I defend him bc people are way off in terms of his resume. Put it this way. Well you and the others are trying to discredit Floyd on a daily basis, i've been saying things what bhop along with other boxers are saying about Floyd. *Thats the difference.*


But Bhop is a bum in your eyes, he lost his first fight. Even more of a bum than that Saddler guy who lost in his 7th bout. Thank god you studied boxrec, otherwise we'd never know the truth about that Saddler fraud. He only beat Willie Pep, whoever that bum is. He's got nothing on Castillo or Baldomir, guys who have shared the ring with the GOAT.


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

pacquiao would have killed Corales and I think that was the plan before he got on a motorcycle.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> But Bhop is a bum in your eyes, he lost his first fight. Even more of a bum than that Saddler guy who lost in his 7th bout. Thank god you studied boxrec, otherwise we'd never know the truth about that Saddler fraud. He only beat Willie Pep, whoever that bum is. He's got nothing on Castillo or Baldomir, guys who have shared the ring with the GOAT.


You are the one who is trying to over exaggerate Saddler. I just provided my arguement. Bhop went on a long winning streak until Jones and went on winning some more. Saddler didn't.


1944-03-21Jock Leslie*9*-*3*-*0*

Auditorium, Hartford, Connecticut, USALTKO36

1944-06-15Lou Alter*2*-*1*-*0*

Fort Hamilton Arena, Brooklyn, New York, USALPTS66

1946-02-18Bobby McQuillar*16*-*3*-*0*

Arena Gardens, Detroit, Michigan, USALUD1010

1946-07-23Phil Terranova*53*-*13*-*10*

University of Detroit Stadium, Detroit, Michigan, USALUD1010

That is just the early part of his career. 
Almost everytime he fought someone with a decent record he lost.
Now tell me how he is so much better than Castillo. But yeah you won't bc you are too lazy to do any type of research.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

You see this? Do you see a pattern or you are just retarded?

1944-07-18Benny Saladino*7*-*9*-*1*

MacArthur Stadium, Brooklyn, New York, USAWTKO36
 1944-07-11Clyde English*17*-*45*-*9*

Dexter Park Arena, Woodhaven, Queens, New York, USAWPTS66
1944-06-23Lou Alter*3*-*1*-*0*

Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USADPTS44
1944-06-15Lou Alter*2*-*1*-*0*

Fort Hamilton Arena, Brooklyn, New York, USALPTS66
1944-06-13Jose Aponte Torres*23*-*26*-*8*

Roosevelt Stadium, Union City, New Jersey, USAWPTS88
1944-05-23Domingo Diaz*5*-*11*-*0*

Grotto Auditorium, Jersey City, New Jersey, USAWPTS66
1944-05-15Jose Aponte Torres*23*-*24*-*8*

Valley Arena, Holyoke, Massachusetts, USAWPTS66
1944-05-08Jose Aponte Torres*23*-*23*-*8*

Arena, Trenton, New Jersey, USAWPTS66
1944-04-17Joe Landry*3*-*10*-*3*

Valley Arena, Holyoke, Massachusetts, USAWKO16
1944-03-27Al King*0*-*1*-*0*

Valley Arena, Holyoke, Massachusetts, USAWKO26
1944-03-21Jock Leslie*9*-*3*-*0*

Auditorium, Hartford, Connecticut, USALTKO36
1944-03-07Earl Roys*29*-*7*-*3*

Auditorium, Hartford, Connecticut, USAWPTS88 

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time: 2:23 

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time: 2:12 

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time: 1:40 

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Saddler took three counts in the third round and "then called it quits." 

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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

His next wave before he suffers another loss. Again? you blind or retarded? one after another no hopers.


1946-02-18Bobby McQuillar*16*-*3*-*0*

Arena Gardens, Detroit, Michigan, USALUD1010
 1946-01-17Arbie Bowie*11*-*6*-*0*

Armory, Orange, New Jersey, USAWKO1
1945-12-21Filiberto Osario*14*-*4*-*3*

Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USAWPTS66
1945-12-14Joey Monteiro*13*-*29*-*1*

Arena, Boston, Massachusetts, USAWPTS88
1945-12-03Benny Daniels*3*-*3*-*0*

Valley Arena, Holyoke, Massachusetts, USAWSD66
1945-09-21Richie Miyashiro*5*-*7*-*0*

Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USAWPTS66
1945-08-27Earl Mintz*12*-*46*-*3*

Providence, Rhode Island, USAWKO1
1945-08-20Bobby English*13*-*8*-*0*

Providence, Rhode Island, USAWKO3
1945-08-16Lou Langley*0*-*1*-*1*

Fort Hamilton Arena, Brooklyn, New York, USAWKO16
1945-07-30Luis Rivera

Queensboro Arena, Long Island City, Queens, New York, USAWTKO46
1945-07-24Joey Monteiro*11*-*24*-*1*

MacArthur Stadium, Brooklyn, New York, USAWTKO56
1945-07-23Herbie (Biff) Jones*5*-*1*-*0*

Coliseum, Baltimore, Maryland, USAWTKO36
1945-06-29Leo Methot*5*-*15*-*2*

Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USAWKO16
1945-06-25Bobby Washington*1*-*7*-*0*

Allentown, Pennsylvania, USAWKO2
1945-06-18Caswell Harris*4*-*0*-*3*

Coliseum, Baltimore, Maryland, USAWTKO26
1945-04-30Chilindrina Valencia*6*-*1*-*1*

Arcadia Gardens, Detroit, Michigan, USAWTKO910
1945-04-20Willie Anderson*3*-*4*-*1*

Olympia Stadium, Detroit, Michigan, USAWTKO58
1945-04-02Jimmy Allen*4*-*22*-*4*

Laurel Garden, Newark, New Jersey, USAWKO1
1945-03-22Georgie Knox*12*-*23*-*2*

Convention Hall, Camden, New Jersey, USAWTKO48
1945-03-19Joey Monteiro*11*-*21*-*1*

St. Nicholas Arena, New York, New York, USAWKO46
1945-03-10Harold Gibson*13*-*11*-*0*

Ridgewood Grove, Brooklyn, New York, USAWPTS66
1945-02-19Joey Gatto*11*-*16*-*7*

Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USAWTKO16
1945-01-26Benny May*5*-*1*-*2*

Highland Park, New Jersey, USAWPTS66
1945-01-22Joey Puig*18*-*30*-*4*

St. Nicholas Arena, New York, New York, USAWKO16
1945-01-15Lucky Johnson*1*-*1*-*0*

Laurel Garden, Newark, New Jersey, USAWKO16
1945-01-13Tony Oshiro*10*-*13*-*0*

Ridgewood Grove, Brooklyn, New York, USAWPTS66
1944-12-26Midget Mayo*7*-*11*-*2*

Laurel Garden, Newark, New Jersey, USAWKO36
1944-12-16Earl Mintz*12*-*32*-*3*

Ridgewood Grove, Brooklyn, New York, USAWKO26
1944-12-12Tony Oshiro*10*-*11*-*0*

Jersey City, New Jersey, USAWTKO2
1944-11-28Percy Cabey Lewis*0*-*2*-*0*

Jersey City Gardens, Jersey City, New Jersey, USAWKO1
1944-11-24Manuel Torres*2*-*6*-*1*

St. Nicholas Arena, New York, New York, USAWKO5
1944-11-13Ken Tompkins*0*-*7*-*0*

Laurel Garden, Newark, New Jersey, USAWKO1
1944-11-11Manuel Torres*2*-*5*-*1*

Ridgewood Grove, Brooklyn, New York, USAWPTS66
1944-08-18Cliff Smith*2*-*2*-*0*

Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USAWPTS66
1944-08-08Georgie Knox*10*-*14*-*2*

MacArthur Stadium, Brooklyn, New York, USAWTKO36
1944-07-25Al Pennino*9*-*2*-*0*

MacArthur Stadium, Brooklyn, New York, USAWPTS66
 

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Miyashiro was knocked down twice in the 2nd and twice in the 3rd.

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time: 2:27 | referee: 
George Walsh

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time: 0:29 

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time: 0:59 

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Cut eye forced stoppage after second round.

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From Detroit newspapers (Jack Kincaid).

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Reported in the _Philadelphia Inquirer_ (Jack Kincaid). The _Inquirer_ reported that Knox won, although Saddler's record shows it as a win for him, and Knox's record shows it as a loss.

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time: 2:41 

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time: 2:52 

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According to the New York Times, Saddler knocked Johnson out with his first punch.

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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

@dealt with

Put up your arguement. Since you are such a parrot. Go ahead and paste castillo and lets compare.

At least i don't pretend like you do. 

I'm the only guy who takes things in perspective. YOU JUST WANT TO MAKE PEOPLE BELIEVE YOU HAVE STUDIED THOSE GUYS.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Next wave for your lazy ass. Do you see the pattern now? In his physical prime he was beating no hopers and look... what happen when he fights a live body. Quanity over Quality right?


1946-07-23Phil Terranova*53*-*13*-*10*

University of Detroit Stadium, Detroit, Michigan, USALUD1010
 1946-07-10Georgie Cooper*13*-*22*-*6*

Ebbet's Field, Brooklyn, New York, USAWTKO78
1946-06-13Cedric Flournoy*6*-*10*-*2*

University of Detroit Stadium, Detroit, Michigan, USAWTKO38
1946-04-25Pedro Firpo*28*-*34*-*6*

Convention Hall, Atlantic City, New Jersey, USAWPTS88
1946-04-11Johnny Wolgast*21*-*7*-*3*

Convention Hall, Atlantic City, New Jersey, USAWPTS88
1946-04-08Ralph LaSalle*2*-*3*-*0*

St. Nicholas Arena, New York, New York, USAWKO16 

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
The official scorecards, all in favor of Terranova were: 51-49, 53-47, and 51-49.

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time: 2:11 

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From Detroit newspapers (Jack Kincaid).

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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Next wave.... maybe his prime is gone now.... he DID went through A LOT of "TOUGH" matches. All those guys he beat are SO USED TO LOSING.


1947-10-03Humberto Sierra*36*-*7*-*3*

Auditorium, Minneapolis, Minnesota, USALPTS1010
 1947-09-17Angelo Ambrosano*28*-*11*-*3*

Jamaica Arena, Jamaica, Queens, New York, USAWKO28
1947-08-29Miguel Acevedo*39*-*7*-*3*

Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USAWTKO78
1947-08-14Leslie Harris*10*-*8*-*5*

Bader Field, Atlantic City, New Jersey, USAWTKO510
1947-07-26Oscar Calles*28*-*9*-*2*

Caracas, VenezuelaWKO510
1947-06-03Jimmy Carter*23*-*4*-*1*

Griffith Stadium, Washington, District of Columbia, USADMD1010
1947-05-09Melvin Bartholomew*22*-*20*-*7*

Coliseum Arena, New Orleans, Louisiana, USAWUD1010
1947-05-02Joe Brown*16*-*6*-*3*

Coliseum Arena, New Orleans, Louisiana, USAWRTD210
1947-04-14Charley Cabey Lewis*47*-*24*-*3*

St. Nicholas Arena, New York, New York, USAWUD1010
1947-03-29Carlos Malacara*51*-*23*-*14*

El Toreo, Mexico City, Distrito Federal, MexicoWPTS1010
1947-03-08Leonardo Lopez*32*-*25*-*5*

Arena Coliseo, Mexico City, Distrito Federal, MexicoWKO210
1947-02-07Larry Thomas*10*-*4*-*1*

Asbury Park, New Jersey, USAWTKO2
1947-01-27Humberto Zavala*12*-*19*-*4*

St. Nicholas Arena, New York, New York, USAWTKO710
1947-01-20George 'Dusty' Brown*53*-*59*-*6*

Valley Arena, Holyoke, Massachusetts, USAWKO4
1946-12-30Leonard Caesar*30*-*15*-*3*

Laurel Garden, Newark, New Jersey, USAWKO26
1946-12-26Luis Marquez

Jamaica Arena, Jamaica, Queens, New York, USAWTKO26
1946-12-09Clyde English*25*-*53*-*10*

Valley Arena, Holyoke, Massachusetts, USAWKO3
1946-11-12Artie Price*14*-*10*-*3*

Arena Gardens, Detroit, Michigan, USAWUD1010
1946-10-10Joe Rodriguez*10*-*5*-*0*

Hamid's Pier, Atlantic City, New Jersey, USAWKO38
1946-08-22Pedro Firpo*30*-*37*-*6*

Ebbet's Field, Brooklyn, New York, USAWPTS1010
1946-08-05Dom Amoroso*32*-*9*-*1*

Providence, Rhode Island, USAWKO2 

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
This was a great fight. Saddler was down in the first round.

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
time: 2:55 | referee: 
Ray Miller

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
time: 3:00 
Bout stopped because of an ugly gash over Acevedo's left eye.

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
time: 0:30 

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
referee: 
Charley Reynolds
 | judge: 
Harry Volkman
 | judge: 
C.U. Trigg
Trigg and Volkman called it a draw, Reynolds had Saddler winning (Washington Post).

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
referee: 
Jack Appell
 7-3 | judge: 
Young Otto
 6-4 | judge: 
Harold Barnes
 5-3 

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
From The Ring, June 1947, page 52.

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
time: 1:57 | referee: 
Jack Watson

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
The Ring,April 1947 has Julio Jiminez vs George Dusty Brown.

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
time: 2:17 

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
time: 1:55 

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> You are the one who is trying to over exaggerate Saddler. I just provided my arguement. Bhop went on a long winning streak until Jones and went on winning some more. Saddler didn't.
> 
> 
> 1944-03-21Jock Leslie*9*-*3*-*0*
> ...


Look how many times a year Saddler was fighting. Do you know anything about the body, about periodisation? Saddler wasn't desperate to protect his zero by fighting once a year against hand picked opponents, he fought just about every month and there's no way you can peak for every fight or be anywhere near your best when you're fighting that frequently. If boxing was the same today Floyd wouldn't have his zero and you might be an Ottke fan instead.
But yeah you don't have a brain to do any sort of critical thinking. You go and do your boxrec research little man, you know it all.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Oh LOOK there he is! The one name that you felt is "SAFE" to throw out to make the forum respect you bc you know Willie Pep. Sandy must be a freaking monster bc he beat Willie Pep. So there you have it bc he got a win off Willie Pep therefore he is "Better than Castillo" your argument right? or that he beat a lot of bums? Which is it?


1949-02-11Willie Pep*136*-*2*-*1*

Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USALUD1515
 1949-01-16Young Finnegan*33*-*12*-*2*

Estadio Olimpico, Panama City, PanamaWKO510
1948-12-17Terry Young*62*-*18*-*5*

Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USAWTKO1010
1948-12-07Eddie Giosa*53*-*17*-*6*

Arena, Cleveland, Ohio, USAWKO210
1948-11-29Dennis Pat Brady*60*-*9*-*2*

Boston Garden, Boston, Massachusetts, USAWUD1010
1948-11-19Tomas Beato*10*-*13*-*1*

State Armory, Bridgeport, Connecticut, USAWTKO210
1948-10-29Willie Pep*134*-*1*-*1*

Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USAWKO415
1948-10-11Willie Roache*44*-*61*-*5*

Arena, New Haven, Connecticut, USAWKO3
1948-08-22Aquilino Allen*16*-*10*-*1*

Arena de Colon, Colon City, PanamaWKO210
1948-08-15Kid Zefine*31*-*13*-*4*

Arena de Colon, Colon City, PanamaWKO210
1948-06-29Chico Rosa*29*-*1*-*0*

Honolulu, Hawaii, USALPTS1010
1948-05-24Harry LaSane*32*-*8*-*2*

Valley Arena, Holyoke, Massachusetts, USAWUD1010
1948-04-24Young Tanner*4*-*2*-*1*

Swingsters Square Garden, San Nicolas, ArubaWKO5 

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
referee: 
Eddie Joseph
 5-10 | judge: 
Frank Forbes
 5-9 | judge: 
Jack O'Sullivan
 6-9 
*World Featherweight Title*
1949 Fight of the Year - Ring Magazine

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
time: 2:52 | referee: 
Rogelio Pinzon
Finnigan knocked down in 2nd round

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
time: 0:37 | referee: 
Eddie Joseph

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
time: 1:34 | referee: 
Jackie Davis

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
referee: 
Tommy Rawson

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
time: 2:22 
Beato was knocked down three times in the 1st. In the 2nd round a left hook by Saddler broke Beato's nose. The bout was stopped shortly thereafter.

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
time: 2:38 | referee: 
Ruby Goldstein
*World Featherweight Title*
Pep was knocked down twice in the 3rd, and once in the 4th for the count.

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
time: 1:29 | referee: 
Colon Al Brown
Allen knocked down seven times

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
time: 1:05 | referee: 
Servio Tulio Lay

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Look how many times a year Saddler was fighting. Do you know anything about the body, about periodisation? Saddler wasn't desperate to protect his zero by fighting once a year against hand picked opponents, he fought just about every month and there's no way you can peak for every fight or be anywhere near your best when you're fighting that frequently. If boxing was the same today Floyd wouldn't have his zero and you might be an Ottke fan instead.
> But yeah you don't have a brain to do any sort of critical thinking. You go and do your boxrec research little man, you know it all.


Oh big surprise. The "oh look how many fights he has fought"
The guy he beat were worse than sparring partners. Worse than accomplish amatuers. get real son.

And you have the nerve to bring this shit up like you know something. You are too lazy to even put shit in perspective. What your grand daddy told you that Sandy was a beast or did you learn it from the forums? You want a cracker for throwing some classic dudes name out or what?

I can sit here all day and say Hearns, Haggler, Pep, SRL, Duran all day but what do you really know? This ain't comics.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Oh big surprise. The "oh look how many fights he has fought"
> The guy he beat were worse than sparring partners. Worse than accomplish amatuers. get real son.


:lol: A 110 pound chinese kid who lives vicariously through Floyd is calling me 'son'. Classic.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> :lol: A 110 pound chinese kid who lives vicariously through Floyd is calling me 'son'. Classic.


Bitch i'm 130 and thats ALL you got. Personal attacks bc you can't handle a debate.

Panick attack yet????????

Go ahead say the sterotypes, racist remarks show the video. You can't handle it.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Stupid parrots.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Bitch i'm 130 and thats ALL you got. Personal attacks bc you can't handle a debate.
> 
> Panick attack yet????????
> 
> Go ahead say the sterotypes, racist remarks show the video. You can't handle it.


:lol: What are you even talking about now?

You kill your credibility the more you talk. Watch some fights, become a fan of boxing. Don't put such an emphasis on W's and L's, learn about boxing and judge fighters based on their performances against quality opponents. Leave boxrec alone, at least when it comes to judging fighters from a different era. Your crush would never have kept his zero if he was fighting twice a month. He also would lose to fighters you deem to be 'bums'.
Get some perspective, stop pretending that you're cocky to compensate for being a skinny chinese boy who got bashed constantly when growing up, and relax a little. We all admire Floyd, even if we don't worship him like you do.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> :lol: What are you even talking about now?
> 
> You kill your credibility the more you talk. Watch some fights, become a fan of boxing. Don't put such an emphasis on W's and L's, learn about boxing and judge fighters based on their performances against quality opponents. Leave boxrec alone, at least when it comes to judging fighters from a different era. Your crush would never have kept his zero if he was fighting twice a month. He also would lose to fighters you deem to be 'bums'.
> Get some perspective, stop pretending that you're cocky to compensate for being a skinny chinese boy who got bashed constantly when growing up, and relax a little. We all admire Floyd, even if we don't worship him like you do.


Yeah ok. 
I just follow Floyd but yet i bet on almost every boxing fight for the last 8 years and winning 70% of them beating the uphill odds they give me. You MAKE A LOT of sense. And yet you have provided nothing on your arguement. NONE. just throwing out names but dksabout them.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Yeah ok.
> I just follow Floyd but yet i bet on almost every boxing fight for the last 8 years and winning 70% of them beating the uphill odds they give me. You MAKE A LOT of sense. And yet you have provided nothing on your arguement. NONE. just throwing out names but dksabout them.


According to your statistics you bet on the underdog in almost every fight there is and you win 70% of the time. Do you dribble shit constantly?


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

Manny. Mostly because of Barrera (who wasn't really past it). It's close though.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Barrera was very close to his prime, the question is flawed. If you're going to nitpick, might as well call Castillo 1 a loss and Corrales drained.


:deal

Morales was the worst win I must say because he lost his legs very early in the fight. It's a shame as he was ahead on the cards before this.

Barrera only slipped a very small amount.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> I forgot to add that they should justify their vote as well. And i forgot to make vote public.
> 
> For my reason it is bc they were both at the top of their division and the man to beat at the time when Floyd fought them.
> Manny fought an out of shape, out of prime, and coming off loss to Raheem and had to drop from 180lbs to meet Pac for the rematch. Barrera, although is on a winning streak but he a near death blood clot incident in boxing. Not as bad of shape as Morales but still that needs to be considered.


You didn't learn anything in the last thread where you looked like a fool, did you?

You will never learn anything more about boxing, it'll be like talking to a brick wall when discussing matters with you man.


----------



## Gunner (Jun 4, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> Castillo was Pac's sparring partner..
> 
> what does that tell you?


Morales was Floyds sparring partner

What does that tell you?


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> You didn't learn anything in the last thread where you looked like a fool, did you?
> 
> You will never learn anything more about boxing, it'll be like talking to a brick wall when discussing matters with you man.


Parrot num2

The brick wall is you and the CO. Posers.
You all try to be knowledgeable but the problem is that you learn from each other and that is nothing. Throwing fab4 name out there exaggerate the shit out of them and hope to get praise by other gullable fools on this forum in thinking that you know something. You guys are so close minded that what i just did to Dealt with, that you would still think i'm making it up. "Boxrec warrior" records speak for itself. They are more accurate than you lazy sobs.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

There is a reason why ESB was Flooded by trolls and alts Floyd bashing everyday. They are desperate to belittle him just bc it doesn't fit their agenda. But while you tards are stuck in lala land the rest of the world is SAYING WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ABOUT FLOYD for the last 7 years that he is a Top 10 ATG. Catch the F**K up. So who is the brick wall?


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Damn bro, you're very mentally unstable. Life isn't that bad.

To say Castillo and Cotto are more killers than Saddler and other old time greats, is ignorant on many levels and shows you don't have even the slightest bit of understanding about old timers and their eras. Relax, you don't have the duty to defend the new timers to the nth degree. 

I'd ask you to go and learn about that from a whole range of sources, don't expect people to bend over backwards to teach you something so big like that, especially on a Barrera, Morales, Castillo, Corrales thread. I spent months just learning about the bantam era from around Harada's time to Olivares' time.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Damn bro, you're very mentally unstable. Life isn't that bad.
> 
> To say Castillo and Cotto are more killers than Saddler and other old time greats, is ignorant on many levels and shows you don't have even the slightest bit of understanding about old timers and their eras. Relax, you don't have the duty to defend the new timers to the nth degree.
> 
> I'd ask you to go and learn about that from a whole range of sources, don't expect people to bend over backwards to teach you something so big like that, especially on a Barrera, Morales, Castillo, Corrales thread. I spent months just learning about the bantam era from around Harada's time to Olivares' time.


SMFH.


----------



## mick557 (Jun 6, 2013)

@tliang1000 You should give youtube a try or better yet WBVA instead of boxrec when trying to judge how good fighters are.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Floyd is also out of prime and p4p number 1.


What does Floyd being considered out of his prime have to do with Barrera being considered in his prime? Why do you keep bringing up irrelevant points?


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> SMFH.


http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

+

Learn about boxing in the past


----------



## LuckyLuke (Jun 6, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> Castillo was Pac's sparring partner..
> 
> what does that tell you?


Nothing.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

mick557 said:


> @*tliang1000* You should give youtube a try or better yet WBVA instead of boxrec when trying to judge how good fighters are.


And what made you think that i don't youtube fights?


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
> 
> +
> 
> Learn about boxing in the past


Thats funny considering i'm one of the rare few that is willing to put thing in perspective. Unlike you... you are just a sheep.

You trying to say that i have bad reasoning skills but I pick winners at a 70% rate.

You just keep talking out of your ass.


----------



## mick557 (Jun 6, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> And what made you think that i don't youtube fights?


Your whole copy & paste job a couple of pages back.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

mick557 said:


> Your whole copy & paste job a couple of pages back.


and???? so you draw the conclusion that i don't youtube bc i copy and pasted to illustrate my point?


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> What does Floyd being considered out of his prime have to do with Barrera being considered in his prime? Why do you keep bringing up irrelevant points?


irrelevant? You said that MAB is in prime and p4p num3. And i replied that Floyd is p4p1 and out prime.

My point since you didn't get was to show you that YOU CAN BE OUT OF PRIME AND STILL BE RANKED P4P. Bernard Hopkins ring the bell?

I don't know about you guys but when a guy got punched so many times and develops a blood clot or he will die and have a metal plate in his head kind of means that he is no longer 100% To suffer brain damage. You know that most boxers retire from boxing from a serious injury like that. BUT he chose to fight on bc he is a warrior.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Just when I thought CHB had attracted its elite level retards we get some Boxrec warriors, great!!!


----------



## Bing (Jul 17, 2012)

In order id say Barrera, Castillo, Corrales then that version of Morales. 
What do you think is a better win out of the Oscar Floyd beat against the Morales Pac Beat?


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Barrera wasn't out of his prime, he was on the best run of his career and then after the loss continued on a quality run until he lost back to back losses to Marquez and Pacquaio again.

Prime means the run of fights in which you have your best wins and performances and this was Barrera's. If you can't work that out then you have no hope.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Just when I thought CHB had attracted its elite level retards we get some Boxrec warriors, great!!!


So what are you saying that boxrec is not a helpful website at all? or that people shouldn't use boxrec to illustrate a point? huh?


----------



## mick557 (Jun 6, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> and???? so you draw the conclusion that i don't youtube bc i copy and pasted to illustrate my point?


My point being that you place way to much emphasis on peoples records.

To give an example Hagler lost two and drew two early on in his career but is still universally considered one of the best middleweights that ever lived.

I could Copy & paste Bobby Watts record who beat Hagler and then David Love's record who beat Watts just over a year later but retired with a record off 32-21-1 but it doesn't mean a thing.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Thats funny considering i'm one of the rare few that is willing to put thing in perspective. Unlike you... you are just a sheep.
> 
> You trying to say that i have bad reasoning skills but I pick winners at a 70% rate.
> 
> You just keep talking out of your ass.


You don't actually know anything about previous eras to give a fair view. You don't even know shit about modern day to say that an Castillo and Corrales > Morales and Barrera.

There really is zero point in reading your responses to anything from now on.

70%. Everybody. A minute silence for Liang's greatness.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> So what are you saying that boxrec is not a helpful website at all? or that people shouldn't use boxrec to illustrate a point? huh?


People shouldn't use a black and white papers script to define full careers.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Barrera wasn't out of his prime, he was on the best run of his career and then after the loss continued on a quality run until he lost back to back losses to Marquez and Pacquaio again.
> 
> Prime means the run of fights in which you have your best wins and performances and this was Barrera's. If you can't work that out then you have no hope.


First of all. you are now trying to describe career type prime. Barrera was NOT in his physical prime. The guy almost died from getting hit in the head that MOST PEOPLE RETIRE FROM and you act like he is 100%
Yeah lets use your definition. Bhop is still in prime, Floyd is still in prime. Everyone who is over 35+ who are winning a string of fights are ALL in prime.

what a joke


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> People shouldn't use a black and white papers script to define full careers.


yeah! bc you CANNOT make any assessment without video footage right?

That's a false btw.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> First of all. you are now trying to describe career type prime. Barrera was NOT in his physical prime. The guy almost died from getting hit in the head that MOST PEOPLE RETIRE FROM and you act like he is 100%
> Yeah lets use your definition. Bhop is still in prime, Floyd is still in prime. Everyone who is over 35+ who are winning a string of fights are ALL in prime.
> 
> what a joke


Not at all because neither BHop or Floyd are hitting their best wins at present. they are mostly fighting overhyped fighters of a lower calibre than they have in the past. So your examples only show how narrow your knowledge is and considering you use these examples constantly then I'm guessing you only know a small pool of fighters and anything about them.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

I love it when i hear people telling me how to assessment a fighter when half of the people i bet on a weekly basis have next to no footage bc they are a prospect or an unknown. Yet the oddsmaker will still have a line for it. So what do you use as a tool? HMMMMMM....


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Not at all because neither BHop or Floyd are hitting their best wins at present. they are mostly fighting overhyped fighters of a lower calibre than they have in the past. So your examples only show how narrow your knowledge is and considering you use these examples constantly then I'm guessing you only know a small pool of fighters and anything about them.


This post is str8 opinion. You can totally submit this as a Fact or Opinion question for schools.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Plus physical prime is only one element of boxing, you can have guys been at their physical peak when they are younger not do as well as when they are past physical peak but improve due to experience and go on better runs as they get older. Take Orlando Salido for one example.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> I love it when i hear people telling me how to assessment a fighter when half of the people i bet on a weekly basis have next to no footage bc they are a prospect or an unknown. Yet the oddsmaker will still have a line for it. So what do you use as a tool? HMMMMMM....


Well if your betting on prospects v journeymen with no footage then your gonna win 70% of the time, if your betting on those fights and losing 30% then thats actually a pretty shit percentage to come out with.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Plus physical prime is only one element of boxing, you can have guys been at their physical peak when they are younger not do as well as when they are past physical peak but improve due to experience and go on better runs as they get older. Take Orlando Salido for one example.


Well you know what? Nobody specify anything about "Physical prime" or "Career Prime" And judging from my comments you could easily tell i was talking about Barrera's physical prime as well as Morales.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Well if your betting on prospects v journeymen with no footage then your gonna win 70% of the time, if your betting on those fights and losing 30% then thats actually a pretty shit percentage to come out with.


LOL shit percentage? You obviously do not gamble.

Not only do you have to pick a winner... *you have find a way to make money*. That is the EXTRA hard part. (let me bold that very important part of gambling)


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Well you know what? Nobody specify anything about "Physical prime" or "Career Prime" And judging from my comments you could easily tell i was talking about Barrera's physical prime as well as Morales.


So, that's just one element, it don't make a full fighter so you can't discount them because at one aspect they might have lost a little but on the other had gained a lot more.

Its like saying a new car is shit because of the bodywork yet the engine has been upgraded.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> So, that's just one element, it don't make a full fighter so you can't discount them because at one aspect they might have lost a little but on the other had gained a lot more.
> 
> Its like saying a new car is shit because of the bodywork yet the engine has been upgraded.


coming from a guy who thinks boxrec is useless or suggesting it? Keyboard warrior? And you going to tell me about one element? aren't copying me now?


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

in other words chatty,

Don't tell me about element right after you just got down bad mouthing me about using boxrec.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> coming from a guy who thinks boxrec is useless or suggesting it? Keyboard warrior? And you going to tell me about one element? aren't copying me now?


I'm sorry mate, everybody must be wrng about this and you must be the only guy who is right. Boxrec is the only way to judge a fighters career. Sorry man.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> I'm sorry mate, everybody must be wrng about this and you must be the only guy who is right. Boxrec is the only way to judge a fighters career. Sorry man.


WoW now you're putting words in my mouth.


----------



## JohnAnthony (Jun 6, 2013)

hilarious fail by the thread starter.

i wish this was a public poll so we can name and shame the 5 posters who think a victory over Corrales and Castillo is better than barrera and Morales.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> But Bhop is a bum in your eyes, he lost his first fight. Even more of a bum than that Saddler guy who lost in his 7th bout. Thank god you studied boxrec, otherwise we'd never know the truth about that Saddler fraud. He only beat Willie Pep, whoever that bum is. He's got nothing on Castillo or Baldomir, guys who have shared the ring with the GOAT.


:rofl


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

rjjfan said:


> Flomos:


:lol:


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> I'm sorry mate, everybody must be wrng about this and you must be the only guy who is right. Boxrec is the only way to judge a fighters career. Sorry man.


Hate to tell you that a lot of people like Justin Beiber and think he is awesome but it doesn't actually means he is.
A lot of people follow a certain type of religion and the more vocal ones/aggressive ones tend to have more followers.
Music, Movies, and everything in between are what people sell to each other. And people will believe due to fact that they can't think for themselves. Half of the people in here are exactly that.

Talk is cheap, prove it.

You got people on here like Dealt with and bozo who claims that Barrera and Morales are WAY better. and even went as far as saying that an out of prime Barrera and over the hill Morales is better victories than a in prime (undefeated Corrales) and In prime Castillo who is the man at 135 at the time when Floyd fought him. While Castillo and Corrales was go enough to beat an in prime Casamayor and Frieta who were consider good fighters at 135. Are Hamed, Tapia, really that much better than Casamayor and Frieta? If thats not exaggeration i don't know what is.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Hate to tell you that a lot of people like Justin Beiber and think he is awesome but it doesn't actually means he is.
> A lot of people follow a certain type of religion and the more vocal ones/aggressive ones tend to have more followers.
> Music, Movies, and everything in between is what people sell to each other. And people will believe due to fact that they can't think for themselves. Half of the people in here are exactly that.


Alright so what about the other half that disagrees with you?

The people on this forum aren't children buying music. Maybe on the old site you could analogize them to Beiber fans, but here, you have hardcore fans who watch boxing constantly, have watched countless fights from past eras, and often have some form of boxing experience. If you're going to go against an informed, intelligent majority, you have to make you case. And you haven't. You're losing dominantly on both polls and have done nothing to justify your position aside from ad hominem attacks calling posters "exaggerators" and acting like some sort of free-thinking genius pioneer of the sport LOL.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Alright so what about the other half that disagrees with you?
> 
> The people on this forum aren't children buying music. Maybe on the old site you could analogize them to Beiber fans, but here, you have hardcore fans who watch boxing constantly, have watched countless fights from past eras, and often have some form of boxing experience. If you're going to go against an informed, intelligent majority, you have to make you case. And you haven't. You're losing dominantly on both polls and have done nothing to justify your position aside from ad hominem attacks calling posters "exaggerators" and acting like some sort of free-thinking genius pioneer of the sport LOL.


In case you haven't noticed Bozo, that i do not need to seek others opinion for boxing. You may need to since you are a big time loser.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> In case you haven't noticed Bozo, that i do not need to seek others opinion for boxing. You may need to since you are a big time loser.


You haven't answered my question or substantiated your argument. You opened yourself up to engage with the opinions of others when you signed up onto a discussion forum, contributed to this debate, and then made a poll of your own.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> You haven't answered my question or substantiated your argument. You opened yourself up to engage with the opinions of others when you signed up onto a discussion forum, contributed to this debate, and then made a poll of your own.


If I can get a dollar for every time someone not answering my questions.... Like your friend who went into hiding with his Sandy saddler debate.
Look bog, you will forever be a sheep. You wear your agenda on your sleeve. You want to act all knowledgeable and then turns around and bet on Canelo to beat Floyd.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> If I can get a dollar for every time someone not answering my questions.... Like your friend who went into hiding with his Sandy saddler debate.
> Look bog, you will forever be a sheep. You wear your agenda on your sleeve. You want to act all knowledgeable and then turns around and bet on Canelo to beat Floyd.


I'm not a sheep, just far more correct in my evaluation than you are. Consistently. You however can't seem to imagine anything that hampers Floyd's image in the slightest.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I'm not a sheep, just far more correct in my evaluation than you are. Consistently. You however can't seem to imagine anything that hampers Floyd's image in the slightest.


Yeah by you betting on Canelo, you are not a sheep. If thats what you mean.

"You however can't seem to imagine anything that hampers Floyd's image in the slightest" <----- another exaggerated bs statement.

I have never said that Floyd had no weaknesses. His hands, his workrate, or his behaviors were not great.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Yeah by you betting on Canelo, you are not a sheep. If thats what you mean.


I favored Floyd in every single thread concerning the fight. Since the moment the fight was signed, I favored Floyd by decision.

Betting on underdogs when you get automatic vWelfare refills is a no brainer. But that's OK, keep deflecting because you've been embarrassed and had your argument shot to pieces.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I favored Floyd in every single thread concerning the fight. Since the moment the fight was signed, I favored Floyd by decision.
> 
> Betting on underdogs when you get automatic vWelfare refills is a no brainer. But that's OK, keep deflecting because you've been embarrassed and had your argument shot to pieces.


and thats why you never mount to anything in ESB for years or here. That logic. And don't think that i forgot what you said about hedging your bets. Thats a retard move and bookies wet dream. They want you to play parlays, RR, and "hedge your bet". You haven't have the first clue about getting welfare money.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> and thats why you never mount to anything in ESB for years or here. That logic. And don't think that i forgot what you said about hedging your bets. Thats a retard move and bookies wet dream. They want you to play parlays, RR, and "hedge your bet". You haven't have the first clue about getting welfare money.


Thanks for reinforcing my point that betting strategies have nothing to do with your substantive knowledge on a sport :good

Now, back on topic. You have utterly failed in gaining support for your biased argument and have done nothing to validate it on your own. Now go wallow.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Thanks for reinforcing my point that betting strategies have nothing to do with your substantive knowledge on a sport :good
> 
> Now, back on topic. You have utterly failed in gaining support for your biased argument and have done nothing to validate it on your own. Now go wallow.


Nothing to do with boxing knowledge? You can't form a strategy without on who you think will win. Jesus christ.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Nothing to do with boxing knowledge? You can't form a strategy without on who you think will win. Jesus christ.


Stop deflecting. Explain why you are right despite a vast majority disagreeing with you on both polls or shut up.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Stop deflecting. Explain why you are right despite a vast majority disagreeing with you on both polls or shut up.


BC they are the public, what else do i expect?


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Hate to tell you that a lot of people like Justin Beiber and think he is awesome but it doesn't actually means he is.
> A lot of people follow a certain type of religion and the more vocal ones/aggressive ones tend to have more followers.
> Music, Movies, and everything in between are what people sell to each other. And people will believe due to fact that they can't think for themselves. Half of the people in here are exactly that.
> 
> ...


Mate your post has no relevance at all. In fact the people who like Beiber are likely to read how good he is on a piece of paper citing the music charts just like you like to use Boxrec as the be and end all.

Your out of your depth, no one agrees with you and the very few who do haven't even turned up to give you any backing. I know Barrera and Morales are better because I grew up watching all their fights as with Corrales and Castillo, who by the way I still regard as quality fighters but neither ever proved they were on the level of MAB?EM, maybes the level below but not on par.

You should pack it in as your biasness aint gonna fool anyone other than those who are as biased as you.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Mate your post has no relevance at all. In fact the people who like Beiber are likely to read how good he is on a piece of paper citing the music charts just like you like to use Boxrec as the be and end all.
> 
> Your out of your depth, no one agrees with you and the very few who do haven't even turned up to give you any backing. I know Barrera and Morales are better because I grew up watching all their fights as with Corrales and Castillo, who by the way I still regard as quality fighters but neither ever proved they were on the level of MAB?EM, maybes the level below but not on par.
> 
> You should pack it in as your biasness aint gonna fool anyone other than those who are as biased as you.


again you think that i only use boxrec?
And Boxrec is not a useful tool?

Neither has proven? Thats interesting for someone who gave Floyd a tough fight but can't compare to MAB and Morales level. Thats funny how the public reason things. So what are you saying that MAB and Morales are greater than Floyd?


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

The public voted for MAB and Morales and almost none of them justify their reasoning. 

And they overlook one very important obvious point and that is Castillo gave Floyd 2 tough fights and is considered as the person who is the closest ever in having a win over Floyd BUT YET HE IS NOT ON MAB AND MORALES LEVEL.

How does that logic work? explain. This goes to all of you who voted.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> again you think that i only use boxrec?
> And Boxrec is not a useful tool?
> 
> Neither has proven? Thats interesting for someone who gave Floyd a tough fight but can't compare to MAB and Morales level. Thats funny how the public reason things. So what are you saying that MAB and Morales are greater than Floyd?


The Public?

Your on a boxing forum not talking in a pub, most general fans will know who half of these guys are and wont have an opinion at all so I dunno what your trying to grasp at there.

Neither are proven to be elite fighters of the calibre of MAB?EM - both guys have better wins against better boxers over longer periods of time.

Corrales has three quality victories over Castillo, Freitas and Casamayor and then a bunch of decent fringe/gatekeeper type opponents. Castillo has a bit of a wider resume with Corrales, Johnson, Lazcano, Bazan, Diaz and Casamayor, again thats about three real good wins a few solid wins and he looked good in the first Mayweather fight. Both were good boxers but had a lot of flaws as well.

Corrales had an excellent run where he looked very good until he met Mayweather, Castillo was a solid world level boxer with a few blips along the way.

Barrera defeated Morales, McKiney, Nazeem, Tapia, Kelly, Fana, Ayala, peden, Juarez, Benevidez, Sanchez and a fair few others, was dominant for years with some competitive losses but some extremely dominant wins over some very good fighters, His career span was very long and kept competitive until the last couple of years.

Morales defeated Barrera, Pacquaio, Jones, Chavez, hernandez, Ayala, Chi, kelly, McCullogh, Jamili and Zaragoza among others, again had a long career on which even on the back end gave guys like Garcia and Maidana long tough nights as well as beating a tough contender in Cano.

Simply put MAB/EM fought a lot more viably leveled opponents over a longer period of time, had more dominant wins over better opponents, achieved more in both accolades and rankings, had more longevity and were both more versatile.

Debate/


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> The Public?
> 
> Your on a boxing forum not talking in a pub, most general fans will know who half of these guys are and wont have an opinion at all so I dunno what your trying to grasp at there.
> 
> ...


I've already listed their key opponents as well. On what you considered is solid wins vs mine would all be opinion based and near impossible to prove with no common opponents.

Those real good wins for MAB and Morales are no different than great wins that Corrales and Castillo have as well. (not including each other which Corrales and Castillo has fought each other as well). Now would people say that Casamayor is worse than Hamed? imo Tapia is better than Freitas? Looks about close to even to me.
Now factor in the fact that if Pac fought them while they are in prime then things would be different but HE DIDN'T.

Bottomline is:
Floyd fought his rivals in prime and the man of the division, Pac didn't.

And the most important aspect of it all is that Castillo almost beat Floyd but Pac got beat and took the test again and got an EVEN worse version of Morales.

Don't overlook my points as well.

/thread


----------



## 2377 (Jun 6, 2013)

Can we please stop this?


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## ImElvis666 (Jul 20, 2012)

And people wonder why Floyd fans are stereotyped as moronic African-Americans.

There's no question who the better duo of wins are. Relax, it doesn't mean Pac is better than Floyd. Get the sand out of your vagina.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> I've already listed their key opponents as well. On what you considered is solid wins vs mine would all be opinion based and near impossible to prove with no common opponents.
> 
> Those real good wins for MAB and Morales are no different than great wins that Corrales and Castillo have as well. (not including each other which Corrales and Castillo has fought each other as well). Now would people say that Casamayor is worse than Hamed? imo Tapia is better than Freitas? Looks about close to even to me.
> Now factor in the fact that if Pac fought them while they are in prime then things would be different but HE DIDN'T.
> ...


Mate using your methods you can say that Corrales was severly drained and not in a good mental place with him facing jail and looked completely out of the fight mentally. I'll pull up those boxrec pages you love to use to put Saddler down for Castillo who had lost 4 times and drew one before Maywweather fought him and only the draw, one of which was domestic level at best.

Barrera was practically prime, if you wanna use outside of the ring instances against it then we can scratch Corrales of as prime candidate. Castillo's prime was very short lived and he lost to a lot lesser opponents than Past prime Morales.

You can spin it anyway you want mate but everyone knows the score.

Now get back to you hugging in private cause you aint proved shit all here.

:floydsr


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Oh btw I aint saying those things against Corrales Castillo as a real opinion, I'm just showing TLiang that his retarded reasoning can be used against anyone in boxing so should they wish.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Mate using your methods you can say that Corrales was severly drained and not in a good mental place with him facing jail and looked completely out of the fight mentally. I'll pull up those boxrec pages you love to use to put Saddler down for Castillo who had lost 4 times and drew one before Maywweather fought him and only the draw, one of which was domestic level at best.
> 
> Barrera was practically prime, if you wanna use outside of the ring instances against it then we can scratch Corrales of as prime candidate. Castillo's prime was very short lived and he lost to a lot lesser opponents than Past prime Morales.
> 
> ...


Tell me when the hell was Corrales not drained? It is not a secret that he ballons up 15-20lbs on the night of the fight. It didn't start with Floyd and didn't ended as well.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Not proving at all? Oh really?

Like i've stated earlier that people doesn't rate Floyd's win over Oscar and Shane and they were both coming off impressive KO wins. In your mind would prolly be called "primed" again scoring a big victory. But people want to say that Floyd didn't beat an "in prime" versions. Now the flip side of the coin and that it is pac who got wins over not in primed opponents and somehow is better than Floyd's In prime victories over elite competition?

If that is not bullshit i don't know what is.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Tell me where Barrera's metal plate actually took something out of him in a fight, he was the exact same fighter afterwards and didn't slow down properly for several more years.

You can't have everything you way because thats what you personally want the outcome to be. Life don't work that way.

:hammer:bluesuit:lp:lamaarty:cmon


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Not proving at all? Oh really?
> 
> Like i've stated earlier that people doesn't rate Floyd's win over Oscar and Shane and they were both coming off impressive KO wins. In your mind would prolly be called "primed" again scoring a big victory. But people want to say that Floyd didn't beat an "in prime" versions. Now the flip side of the coin and that it is pac who got wins over not in primed opponents and somehow is better than Floyd's In prime victories over elite competition?
> 
> If that is not bullshit i don't know what is.


Probably because both had massive lay-offs at the twilight of their career and looked like complete shit in every fight they had after the lay-offs. Not that they were bad wins, just weren't great wins. But hey if you want to class them as great wins that would be cool but you would have to class the Mosley win as a great one for Pacquaio as well considering it was only a year later and he looked exactly the same in that fight as he did against Floyd. Do you though?

:cmon


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Tell me where Barrera's metal plate actually took something out of him in a fight, he was the exact same fighter afterwards and didn't slow down properly for several more years.
> 
> You can't have everything you way because thats what you personally want the outcome to be. Life don't work that way.
> 
> :hammer:bluesuit:lp:lamaarty:cmon


How would you know if it didn't? *Did he come back and get his revenge on Junior Jones?*


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> The quality of the wins probably goes like this:
> 
> Barrera
> Castillo
> ...


this
/thread


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> How would you know if it didn't? *Did he come back and get his revenge on Junior Jones?*


He beat many many world level boxers and even HOFers, some ATGs after including having some of his best and noted fights. You point is as irrelevant at Floyd Caorrales because he didn't fight him again at a weight he may not have been drained at and wasn't facing jail time. You can spin as much as you want mate and ill just keep spinning just the same, its just too damn easy to do.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Probably because both had massive lay-offs at the twilight of their career and looked like complete shit in every fight they had after the lay-offs. Not that they were bad wins, just weren't great wins. But hey if you want to class them as great wins that would be cool but you would have to class the Mosley win as a great one for Pacquaio as well considering it was only a year later and he looked exactly the same in that fight as he did against Floyd. Do you though?
> 
> :cmon


Quit trying to spin it. Lay offs. Both Oscar and Mosley both beat the crap out of their opponents. People were demanding a Shane/Floyd fight. Meanwhile you got can't make weight shopworn Morales beats Pac then gets shut out by a gatekeeper Raheem. Yeah quality wins for Pac. WAY BETTER Than Floyd's win over Castillo.


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## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> How would you know if it didn't? *Did he come back and get his revenge on Junior Jones?*


in case you've forgotten he did try to avenge himself in the rematch and lost a very close verdict.

but then again is that the end all and be all? there is always a guy who will always be a nightmare to fight for someone no matter how great he is. anyway the guy went on a hot streak while jones floundered afterwards. make of that what you will.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> He beat many many world level boxers and even HOFers, some ATGs after including having some of his best and noted fights. You point is as irrelevant at Floyd Caorrales because he didn't fight him again at a weight he may not have been drained at and wasn't facing jail time. You can spin as much as you want mate and ill just keep spinning just the same, its just too damn easy to do.


You are obviously riding hard on Barrera bc you know the morales win is absolute shit. You wanna talk about Corrales being drained at least he was cramming down to 130 walking around 155 unlike Morales who was at 180 dropping to 130!
You spin much much more, surprise you haven't choked on your own vomit yet.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> in case you've forgotten he did try to avenge himself in the rematch and lost a very close verdict.
> 
> but then again is that the end all and be all? there is always a guy who will always be a nightmare to fight for someone no matter how great he is. anyway the guy went on a hot streak while jones floundered afterwards. make of that what you will.


No he didn't. MAB got DQed in their first match and got send to the hospital on the rematch.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> You are obviously riding hard on Barrera bc you know the morales win is absolute shit. You wanna talk about Corrales being drained at least he was cramming down to 135 walking around 155 unlike Morales who was at 180 dropping to 130!
> You spin much much more, surprise you haven't choked on your own vomit yet.


Morales was still a solid win, sure he was past prime, I aint said he wasn't but Barrera was a far better win than all those fights. I mean far better. Barrera was on his best run, was a huge favourite and then lost every round and was stopped, a guy who was never stopped before or after.

Sure Morales had lost some, you can rank Castillo/Corrales ahead if you want. Still a solid win, again against a guy who had never been stopped before and only twice after (one v Pacquaio and one v Garcia in his last fight).

I' sure you'll try and keep spinning but its pointless mate, your just gonna continue to make a mockery out of yourself.


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> No he didn't. MAB got DQed in their first match and got send to the hospital on the rematch.


hospital? that makes it sound that you really do not know what really happened. can you consult boxrec for a minute and take a look? come back to me once you're done.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Just to confirm:

_"There was a surgery in 1997," Espinoza acknowledges. "The surgery was performed in Mexico City by one of the top neurosurgeons in the world. Marco has consulted with several experts on a consistent basis since then and has had numerous MRIs and other examinations including two MRIs in this calendar year alone. All of the medical opinions that Marco has received from the time of the surgery through today have concluded that the surgery does not present any risks for Marco beyond the risks that are faced by any boxer."

Espinosa states that the surgery does not place Barrera at any competitive advantage or disadvantage and that the Texas State Athletic Commission was made aware of the situation in a timely manner. He also says that, immediately after the surgery, Barrera gave his medical records to the appropriate representatives on the understanding that the information in them would be communicated as necessary to the proper parties.

_


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Morales was still a solid win, sure he was past prime, I aint said he wasn't but Barrera was a far better win than all those fights. I mean far better. Barrera was on his best run, was a huge favourite and then lost every round and was stopped, a guy who was never stopped before or after.
> 
> Sure Morales had lost some, you can rank Castillo/Corrales ahead if you want. Still a solid win, again against a guy who had never been stopped before and only twice after (one v Pacquaio and one v Garcia in his last fight).
> 
> I' sure you'll try and keep spinning but its pointless mate, your just gonna continue to make a mockery out of yourself.


Far better my ass. MAB along with the rest of the world got caught with their pants down. No one knew that Pac would beat Barrera bc he was a nobody an unknown. So Sure if you look at it that way is a HUGE win for Manny but in reality it was bc everyone thought that he is a nobody.

The odds were close for the Floyd fights with Corrales and Castillo. Everyone knew how good and talented that Floyd is and yet he was still an underdog against Corrales and slight favorite over Castillo bc Vegas thought very highly of those two.

You can overate pac's win over Barrera all you want but it is still basically 2 wins to 1 bc Morales at that point in time spend all his energy just to make it to 130. He had nothing left. Same with Oscar.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> No he didn't. MAB got DQed in their first match and got send to the hospital on the rematch.


Have you ever watched Barrera v. Jones 2? Going to the hospital doesn't change the fact that it wasn't a blowout. MAB did lose, but it wasn't one sided. Going to the hospital doesn't really mean anything, other then he went to the hospital after. A lot of boxers do that you know.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Far better my ass. MAB along with the rest of the world got caught with their pants down. No one knew that Pac would beat Barrera bc he was a nobody an unknown. So Sure if you look at it that way is a HUGE win for Manny but in reality it was bc everyone thought that he is a nobody.
> 
> The odds were close for the Floyd fights with Corrales and Castillo. Everyone knew how good and talented that Floyd is and yet he was still an underdog against Corrales and slight favorite over Castillo bc Vegas thought very highly of those two.
> 
> You can overate pac's win over Barrera all you want but it is still basically 2 wins to 1 bc Morales at that point in time spend all his energy just to make it to 130. He had nothing left. Same with Oscar.


Mate your biasness is getting boring, then your forgetting Pacquaio beat Marquez down the weights when both were in their prime which again is a better win than bth Corrales and Castillo. Sure, he got KO'd off him and lost the third in most peoples eyes but hey so what, boxers lose fights.

Your now the biggest nuthugger on here, your so desperate that your just reverting to anything to take off the win, Pacquaio wasn't expected to win so its not a great win - what sort of shit is that, honestly, take a look at yourself, give yourself a slap and put yourself in the corner of the room and have a think about how stupid you've been.

As for Marquez, you should have added that one in Floyds wins as its better than the Castiilo win.


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Far better my ass. MAB along with the rest of the world got caught with their pants down. No one knew that Pac would beat Barrera bc he was a nobody an unknown. So Sure if you look at it that way is a HUGE win for Manny but in reality it was bc everyone thought that he is a nobody.
> 
> The odds were close for the Floyd fights with Corrales and Castillo. Everyone knew how good and talented that Floyd is and yet he was still an underdog against Corrales and slight favorite over Castillo bc Vegas thought very highly of those two.
> 
> You can overate pac's win over Barrera all you want but it is still basically 2 wins to 1 bc Morales at that point in time spend all his energy just to make it to 130. He had nothing left. Same with Oscar.


that makes it sound like barrera was indeed a good win, imagine a lone win compared to 2 of floyds best. :lol:

in another story, how can being an unknown go against pac? he's the opponent, a guy who should just be another win on barerra's record. yet he trashed the favorite badly. how you make it a detriment?

on the other hand, floyd was the guy being pushed by arum and was supposed to be the next breakout star after oscar yet had a harder time then expected against castillo. if there is a detriment, that one is it.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang called out for saying shit about fights and fighters he hasn't watched yet again. No surprise.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> in case you've forgotten he did try to avenge himself in the rematch and lost a very close verdict.
> 
> but then again is that the end all and be all? there is always a guy who will always be a nightmare to fight for someone no matter how great he is. anyway the guy went on a hot streak while jones floundered afterwards. make of that what you will.


I was at a function where Barrera freely admitted that Pacquaio was an absolute stylistic nightmare for him and nothing he tried worked.
You don't often hear many ATGs come out with comments like that.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> I was at a function where Barrera freely admitted that Pacquaio was an absolute stylistic nightmare for him and nothing he tried worked.
> You don't often hear many ATGs come out with comments like that.


I mean he tried to use Hamed tactics of stepping into the jab while circling leftwards in the rematch and did defensively better, but it just wasn't enough to neutralize Pac's in and out movement.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I mean he tried to use Hamed tactics of stepping into the jab while circling leftwards in the rematch and did defensively better, but it just wasn't enough to neutralize Pac's in and out movement.


Stop polluting this thread with sensible boxing discussion Bogo.
Reported.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Stop polluting this thread with sensible boxing discussion Bogo.
> Reported.


:lol::lol::rofl:rofl


----------



## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

This entire thread is very bizarre.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Mate your biasness is getting boring, then your forgetting Pacquaio beat Marquez down the weights when both were in their prime which again is a better win than bth Corrales and Castillo. Sure, he got KO'd off him and lost the third in most peoples eyes but hey so what, boxers lose fights.
> 
> *Your now the biggest nuthugger on here, your so desperate that your just reverting to anything to take off the win, Pacquaio wasn't expected to win so its not a great win - what sort of shit is that, honestly, take a look at yourself, give yourself a slap and put yourself in the corner of the room and have a think about how stupid you've been.*


:lol::rofl


----------



## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

Chatty said:


> Mate your biasness is getting boring, then your forgetting Pacquaio beat Marquez down the weights when both were in their prime which again is a better win than bth Corrales and Castillo. Sure, he got KO'd off him and lost the third in most peoples eyes but hey so what, boxers lose fights.
> 
> Your now the biggest nuthugger on here, your so desperate that your just reverting to anything to take off the win, Pacquaio wasn't expected to win so its not a great win - what sort of shit is that, honestly, take a look at yourself, give yourself a slap and put yourself in the corner of the room and have a think about how stupid you've been.
> 
> As for Marquez, you should have added that one in Floyds wins as its better than the Castiilo win.


:lol: It's actually out of this world. One of the worst posters I've ever seen.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Mate your biasness is getting boring, then your forgetting Pacquaio beat Marquez down the weights when both were in their prime which again is a better win than bth Corrales and Castillo. Sure, he got KO'd off him and lost the third in most peoples eyes but hey so what, boxers lose fights.
> 
> Your now the biggest nuthugger on here, your so desperate that your just reverting to anything to take off the win, Pacquaio wasn't expected to win so its not a great win - what sort of shit is that, honestly, take a look at yourself, give yourself a slap and put yourself in the corner of the room and have a think about how stupid you've been.
> 
> As for Marquez, you should have added that one in Floyds wins as its better than the Castiilo win.


:happy:cheers:deal:lol:


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Castillo was only considered an ATG win in hindsight, after Floyd had struggled with him (he did struggle with Stevie Johnston, after all). Floyd was expected to handle him with relative ease and he could not. 

Morales was dead at 130 and Roach knew it. That's why they declined Erik's request of 132. I don't like Pac having the upper hand in this trilogy because prime-for-prime, Erik beats Manny more times than not.

Corrales was a transcendent win, as was Barrera. A younger Barrera was not a better fighter than the one that fought Pac and would have been ko'd just the same.


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## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

Barrera
Castillo
Corrales

Morales

How people think Barrera was past prime I have no idea. He was in great form going into the Pacman fight and after losing went on to have great wins afterwards!
I think Mayweather's win over Castillo is his best win by FAR. Castillo was a monster!


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## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

Barrera just got hit with the same combinations time and time again. Its seems shocking to see no adjustments from Barrera but it really was just stylistic. He never really had the backhand that would give problems to Pacman as he would come in.


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## Elite (May 22, 2013)

This thread certainly made quick 180.:lol:


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Mate your biasness is getting boring, then your forgetting Pacquaio beat Marquez down the weights when both were in their prime which again is a better win than bth Corrales and Castillo. Sure, he got KO'd off him and lost the third in most peoples eyes but hey so what, boxers lose fights.
> 
> Your now the biggest nuthugger on here, your so desperate that your just reverting to anything to take off the win, Pacquaio wasn't expected to win so its not a great win - what sort of shit is that, honestly, take a look at yourself, give yourself a slap and put yourself in the corner of the room and have a think about how stupid you've been.
> 
> As for Marquez, you should have added that one in Floyds wins as its better than the Castiilo win.


You're forgetting this guy wins 70% of his boxing bets Chatty.On underdogs too.Using Boxrec.
You can't argue with science mate.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

ImElvis666 said:


> *And people wonder why Floyd fans are stereotyped as moronic African-Americans*.
> 
> There's no question who the better duo of wins are. Relax, it doesn't mean Pac is better than Floyd. Get the sand out of your vagina.


WTF is this, and WTF does this have to do with the topic.. Especially when the topic starter has made it known he's Asian, and not Black?


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Chatty criticizing another posters opinion after trying to call Williams and Margarito Hall of Famers 

Incredible


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

ImElvis666 said:


> And people wonder why Floyd fans are stereotyped as moronic African-Americans.
> 
> There's no question who the better duo of wins are. Relax, it doesn't mean Pac is better than Floyd. Get the sand out of your vagina.


Floyd fans are fine wonder bread, 45-0. Or was it 46? Honestly i cant remember Floyds record anymore.

From now on we just say alot of wins-0


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Chatty criticizing another posters opinion after trying to call Williams and Margarito Hall of Famers
> 
> Incredible


I said they are around there which they are. You still buggered off from that debate with your tail between your legs as per usual.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

ImElvis666 said:


> *And people wonder why Floyd fans are stereotyped as moronic African-Americans.*
> 
> There's no question who the better duo of wins are. Relax, it doesn't mean Pac is better than Floyd. Get the sand out of your vagina.


Do not assert racial stereotypes out of nowhere. The TS isn't eve black, there's no need for these kinds of comments.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Arguing with the same usual suspects with the same agenda. The same type of people that flood ESB with tons of Floyd hate threads on a daily basis. 

Exaggerators: First they claim Floyd's wins over Oscar and Shane means jack shit then being the annoying hypocrites they are. flips the coin and want to suck Manny's dick for it. Then they want to say MAB and Morales were way better fighters than Corrales and Castillo? Even went as far as saying even their out of prime selves still tops them as well. What a joke. Hypocrites at the most shameless level.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Arguing with the same usual suspects with the same agenda. The same type of people that flood ESB with tons of Floyd hate threads on a daily basis.
> 
> Exaggerators: First they claim Floyd's wins over Oscar and Shane means jack shit then being the annoying hypocrites they are. flips the coin and want to suck Manny's dick for it. Then they want to say MAB and Morales were way better fighters than Corrales and Castillo? Even went as far as saying even their out of prime selves still tops them as well. What a joke. Hypocrites at the most shameless level.


I haven't seen anyone here say MP's wins over Shane Mosley or Oscar were anything to brag about. Who's "They" you keep speaking of?


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Only in a boxing forum where you would find people saying Pac's resume is better. You do not see people saying Pac is top 10 ATG. 
Notorious for fighting guys out of prime and in bad shape. Fight guys coming off losses and he is doing it again with Rios. Stupid fanboys are blind as fuck.

One of the reason why i defend Floyd so much is bc of the daily constant shit that he is falsely accuse of and then people have to tolerate this type of bull. A shot morales = a better win than a Prime Corrales and Castillo. What a joke. Only in forums and youtube you will see idiots talking like this. You watch interviews of boxers are say otherwise and they trying to tell me like i don't know shit about boxing. WHAT A JOKE.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Arguing with the same usual suspects with the same agenda. The same type of people that flood ESB with tons of Floyd hate threads on a daily basis.
> 
> Exaggerators: First they claim Floyd's wins over Oscar and Shane means jack shit then being the annoying hypocrites they are. flips the coin and want to suck Manny's dick for it. Then they want to say MAB and Morales were way better fighters than Corrales and Castillo? Even went as far as saying even their out of prime selves still tops them as well. What a joke. Hypocrites at the most shameless level.


As you well know,I'm a very big Floyd fan,but I believe that Barrera and Morales are far better than Castillo and certainly Corrales.
The argument didn't need to be started as it is self defeating.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Mal said:


> I haven't seen anyone here say MP's wins over Shane Mosley or Oscar were anything to brag about. Who's "They" you keep speaking of?


But you see Morale's name throw in there instantly when people talk about Pac.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> But you see Morale's name throw in there instantly when people talk about Pac.


It wasn't a terrible win for Pac was it? Certainly he was passed his prime, but so what? Who's "They" you keep speaking of?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Mal said:


> I haven't seen anyone here say MP's wins over Shane Mosley or Oscar were anything to brag about. Who's "They" you keep speaking of?


The more general his ad hominem attacks, the less specific and accurate his arguments have to be. It's his style. While displaying ridiculous bias in favor of Mayweather, he'll claim that it's a set of agenda-driven "usual suspects" disagreeing with him, instead of the vast majority participating on the forum, as is the case.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> As you well know,I'm a very big Floyd fan,but I believe that Barrera and Morales are far better than Castillo and certainly Corrales.
> The argument didn't need to be started as it is self defeating.


Well to me Barrera is the weakest of the 3 top mexican of Barrera, Morales, and JMM. Don't mean he have a bad resume or a bad fighter but there is no way in hell can someone make me believe that Barrera or Morales can beat Castillo or even Corrales due to their aggressive styles, they would prolly get ktfo by both Castillo and Corrales. That and Castillo was good enough to compete with Floyd speak volumes. SO JUST BC he doesn't have as much name fighters as Morales doesn't mean he is not on their level. BC Joel Casamayor is as slick and talented as they come and a very accomplish fighters and both Corrales and Castillo both defeated and him and I can see Casamayor give Morales and Barrera a defeat as well.

People do not understand that and what i have tried to present this whole time.


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## Rudyard (May 23, 2013)

ImElvis666 said:


> And people wonder why Floyd fans are stereotyped as moronic African-Americans.
> 
> There's no question who the better duo of wins are. Relax, it doesn't mean Pac is better than Floyd. Get the sand out of your vagina.


gotta love this clown...Why is race so fucking important to you??? You're always bringing this up like it means something...Tell us how you really feel you POS.:-(


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> The more general his ad hominem attacks, the less specific and accurate his arguments have to be. It's his style. While displaying ridiculous bias in favor of Mayweather, he'll claim that it's a set of agenda-driven "usual suspects" disagreeing with him, instead of the vast majority participating on the forum, as is the case.


I know. Just wanted to see if he'd attribute any actual posters with his paraphrasing. Anyone who cries about "They" really has no major point.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> The more general his ad hominem attacks, the less specific and accurate his arguments have to be. It's his style. While displaying ridiculous bias in favor of Mayweather, he'll claim that it's a set of agenda-driven "usual suspects" disagreeing with him, instead of the vast majority participating on the forum, as is the case.


You don't need to dream up the reasons why i defend Floyd. I have already told your dumbass.

Floyd is African American. In the forums he is behind the eight ball bc Boxing is very race driven. Most of the race support their race it is what it is. With the exception of few. Don't believe me just look at who defends pac? who believe Canelo? ETC ETC.

THe shit i say. I'm just being real. Most of the people on here doesn't put shit in perspective. They just want to say oh he fought this guy and that guy that mainstream people know so therefore his resume is better and everything else is better.

This thread is a perfect example.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

I'd say MP's wins over two much more established fighters like MAB or Erik Morales trumps FMJr's wins over Castillo and Corrales. Both Barrera and Morales are shoo ins for the HOF. I think Corrales and Castillo are borderline IMHO.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Floyd is African American. In the forums he is behind the eight ball bc Boxing is very race driven. Most of the race support their race it is what it is. With the exception of few. Don't believe me just look at who defends pac? who believe Canelo? ETC ETC.


Here we go again.... atsch


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Mal said:


> I'd say MP's wins over two much more established fighters like MAB or Erik Morales trumps FMJr's wins over Castillo and Corrales. Both Barrera and MOrales are shoo ins for the HOF. I think Corrales and Castillo are borderline IMHO.


They can be "more" accomplish and i tend to agree with that as well. More mainstream but it doesn't mean it is a better win. There are TONS OF FIGHTERS WHICH USED UP ELITES ON THEIR RESUME. Oscar got JCC.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> They can be "more" accomplish and i tend to agree with that as well. More mainstream but it doesn't mean it is a better win. There are TONS OF FIGHTERS WHICH USED UP ELITES ON THEIR RESUME. Oscar got JCC.


Who said anything about mainstream? MAB and Morales were closer to their best then JCC was with Oscar Dela hoya. There's no correlation there you can try to connect, other then using your very own opinion.

I've read most of your posts in this thread. There's really no reason to continue anything with you. I made my post, you don't like it, fine. Move on. Or go ask "They" about this. :lol:


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Mal said:


> I know. Just wanted to see if he'd attribute any actual posters with his paraphrasing. Anyone who cries about "They" really has no major point.


:yep



tliang1000 said:


> You don't need to dream up the reasons why i defend Floyd. I have already told your dumbass.


The fact that you're a flomo is not in dispute. I'm explaining why you make vague references in order to save face when your argument has been flushed down the toilet by a majority of voters.



tliang1000 said:


> Floyd is African American. In the forums he is behind the eight ball bc Boxing is very race driven. Most of the race support their race it is what it is. With the exception of few. Don't believe me just look at who defends pac? who believe Canelo? ETC ETC.


Race has little to do with anything here. How many of the voters do you think were Filipino? Gander Tasco is the only biased Pac fan around, he barely shows up. OnePunchKO was banned. Both polls involve 3 Mexican fighters and one half Colombian half-Mexican fighter. Sugar Ray Leonard is not hated. Thomas Hearns is not hated. Marin Hagler is not hated. Shane Mosley is not hated. Hopkins is hated by some, but as much for reasons besides his race than because of it. Same with Floyd. Around here though, Mayweather gets heaps of praise. It's just that you can't stomach or tolerate any single point made against him in the slightest.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Well to me Barrera is the weakest of the 3 top mexican of Barrera, Morales, and JMM. Don't mean he have a bad resume or a bad fighter but there is no way in hell can someone make me believe that Barrera or Morales can beat Castillo or even Corrales due to their aggressive styles, they would prolly get ktfo by both Castillo and Corrales. That and Castillo was good enough to compete with Floyd speak volumes. SO JUST BC he doesn't have as much name fighters as Morales doesn't mean he is not on their level. BC Joel Casamayor is as slick and talented as they come and a very accomplish fighters and both Corrales and Castillo both defeated and him and I can see Casamayor give Morales and Barrera a defeat as well.
> 
> People do not understand that and what i have tried to present this whole time.


You see that's what I mean about self defeating.
Barrera had two fights at 135 that meant absolutely nothing to his legacy.Morales was clever enough to show the world that Maidana was horribly overrated and fooled promoters out of a few million pesos to help with financial problems when anyone who has actually seen him in his prime knew fine well he wasn't 30% of the fighter he once was.
So how on earth can you even be talking about two guys who peaked at super bantam KO'ing one guy who was at 135 with every intention of moving up and another who toiled regularly to make 135 and has recently fought at 168 in a nothing fight?


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> :yep
> 
> The fact that you're a flomo is not in dispute. I'm explaining why you make vague references in order to save face when your argument has been flushed down the toilet by a majority of voters.
> 
> Race has little to do with anything here. How many of the voters do you think were Filipino? Gander Tasco is the only biased Pac fan around, he barely shows up. OnePunchKO was banned. Both polls involve 3 Mexican fighters and one half Colombian half-Mexican fighter. Sugar Ray Leonard is not hated. Thomas Hearns is not hated. Marin Hagler is not hated. Shane Mosley is not hated. Hopkins is hated by some, but as much for reasons besides his race than because of it. Same with Floyd. Around here though, Mayweather gets heaps of praise. It's just that you can't stomach or tolerate any single point made against him in the slightest.


I'm a flomo bc i defend Floyd than i guess i'm a flomo then. But just keep in mind it is not just me who give high praises to Floyd. <---- remember that

As for race and i forgot to add nationality earlier plays a major part and you want to be naive about it then whatever.

ALSO I LIKE TO ADD THE FACT: A lot of people on his forum hold a grudge against me due to past arguments. I see the same type of people every time.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> You see that's what I mean about self defeating.
> Barrera had two fights at 135 that meant absolutely nothing to his legacy.Morales was clever enough to show the world that Maidana was horribly overrated and fooled promoters out of a few million pesos to help with financial problems when anyone who has actually seen him in his prime knew fine well he wasn't 30% of the fighter he once was.
> So how on earth can you even be talking about two guys who peaked at super bantam KO'ing one guy who was at 135 with every intention of moving up and another who toiled regularly to make 135 and has recently fought at 168 in a nothing fight?


I guess Golovkin just got a huge promotion in ranking. Cuz, you know, if Marquez or Pacquiao or Mayweather fought Golovkin, he'd just knock them the fuck out :-patsch


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> I'm a flomo bc i defend Floyd than i guess i'm a flomo then. But just keep in mind it is not just me who give high praises to Floyd. <---- remember that
> 
> As for race and i forgot to add nationality earlier plays a major part and you want to be naive about it then whatever.
> 
> ALSO I LIKE TO ADD THE FACT: A lot of people on his forum hold a grudge against me due to past arguments. I see the same type of people every time.


Yeah, let's include nationality. How many of those 34 voters are Filipino? And how many of the poll options include a fighter of non-Mexican heritage?

I guess 34 people have a grudge against you personally, despite pages and pages of well-reasoned arguments from all sorts of different posters.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah, let's include nationality. How many of those 34 voters are Filipino? And how many of the poll options include a fighter of non-Mexican heritage?
> 
> I guess 34 people have a grudge against you personally, despite pages and pages of well-reasoned arguments from all sorts of different posters.


you are so naive. And a parrot and a sheep.

How many times did someone try to attack me calling me chinese, japanese, thai, viet and etc etc? My race get brought up almost every single argument.


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## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> you are so naive. And a parrot and a sheep.
> 
> How many times did someone try to attack me calling me chinese, japanese, thai, viet and etc etc? My race get brought up almost every single argument.


no offense but you are now sounding like a crybaby now who was deeply affected by those attacks.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> you are so naive. And a parrot and a sheep.


I'm not a sheep, I'm just pissing all over your deflections as you try to make piss-poor excuse after piss-poor excuse as to why hardly anyone agrees with you. You on the other hand do a fine impression parroting whatever argument supports Floyd's image, even if it's not sound.



tliang1000 said:


> How many times did someone try to attack me calling me chinese, japanese, thai, viet and etc etc? My race get brought up almost every single argument.


Relentless did. That's all I can remember.

In these 12 pages, race was only mentioned once briefly by one poster and he was warned. Are you saying 34 voters dislike you because you're Asian? But at the same time have a pro-Pacquiao bias?!


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

Why start a thread if your gonna get sand in your pussy when people give you facts an real answers


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I'm not a sheep, I'm just pissing all over your deflections as you try to make piss-poor excuse after piss-poor excuse as to why hardly anyone agrees with you. You on the other hand do a fine impression parroting whatever argument supports Floyd's image, even if it's not sound.
> 
> Relentless did. That's all I can remember.
> 
> In these 12 pages, race was only mentioned once briefly by one poster and he was warned. Are you saying 34 voters dislike you because you're Asian? But at the same time have a pro-Pacquiao bias?!


You forgot dealt with and side step driving sterotype.

Don't make shit up i'm giving you examples. You must of forgot about what the canelo fans called Floyd after the fight. How many more examples do you need to get the point? Or are you really that naive?

I'm not saying that 34 votes voted for pac meant anything toward my race, you made that shit up on your own. As for you poll it doesn't mean shit bc most people do not know how to put things in perspective. Hell a lot of them think that Pac have a better resume than Floyd or greater than Floyd.

And lastly, I do not just defend Floyd. I have defend Canelo last week when people said he got shut out. As well as Castillo, Corrales, Morales of his condition and etc.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> You forgot dealt with and side step driving sterotype.
> 
> Don't make shit up i'm giving you examples. You must of forgot about what the canelo fans called Floyd after the fight. How many more examples do you need to get the point? Or are you really that naive?


Dude, I'm the one that made that thread about racism against Floyd you dumb fuck. People aren't voting because of your race, most don't even know your race, the one poster who made a comment in this thread thought you were black. You can't claim posters have an anti-asian bias, yet are biased in favor of Pacquiao.

You are just wrong. Most people don't think Corrales and Castillo were a better pair of wins. All there is to it.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Dude, I'm the one that made that thread about racism against Floyd you dumb fuck. People aren't voting because of your race, most don't even know your race, the one poster who made a comment in this thread thought you were black. You can't claim posters have an anti-asian bias, yet are biased in favor of Pacquiao.
> 
> You are just wrong. Most people don't think Corrales and Castillo were a better pair of wins. All there is to it.


hey dumbass did i said that you are racist? Didn't i just got done telling you that vote has nothing to do with my race? WTF is your problem.. I pointed out race/nationality referring to boxing is heavily race/nationality driven and provided examples.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> hey dumbass did i said that you are racist?


No but you're calling me naive and asking me if I forgot about the comments post-Canelo when I made a thread about it.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> No but you're calling me naive and asking me if I forgot about the comments post-Canelo when I made a thread about it.


You are naive. You act like shit like this doesn't exist. I don't have a problem with it for i am just merely pointing it out and i don't care what the majority vote as well bc you already know what my take on public opinion is.

Just like the other day when the poll was heavily against you from your pov in a fantasy match up with Cotto vs Canelo. does it mean that you are wrong and the majority is right? Just bc there were more votes, in the end you can't prove anything bc they haven't fought and the result doesn't mean is a FACT that canelo would beat Cotto, LIKE YOU ARE TRYING IMPLY HERE. Again you are retard to think poll = facts. And to top it off, *Cotto have the better resume similar to this situation but yet most people take Canelo to win it.*


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> You are naive. You act like shit like this doesn't exist. I don't have a problem with it for i am just merely pointing it out and i don't care what the majority vote as well bc you already know what my take on public opinion is.
> 
> Just like the other day when the poll was heavily against you from your pov in a fantasy match up with Cotto vs Canelo. does it mean that you are wrong and the majority is right? Just bc there were more votes, in the end you can't prove anything bc they haven't fought and the result doesn't mean is a FACT that canelo would beat Cotto, LIKE YOU ARE TRYING IMPLY HERE. Again you are retard to think poll = facts. And to top it off, *Cotto have the better resume similar to this situation but yet most people take Canelo to win it.*


How am I acting like racism doesn't exist when I made a thread about it and just acknowledged that it does exist? That doesn't mean it applies at all times to all discussions.

Look, from here on out, if people don't stick to the topic at hand, I'm closing the thread. No more tangents and personal insults.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Is this mentally ill guy still going? Anorexia+small penis= relentless ego (stubbornness)

I don't understand why you're claiming race has anything to do with criticism of Floyd's opponents, that is such a copout. If anything people are going to be biased against Floyd because of his 'money' persona and lifestyle.
I like Floyd as a boxer, but he doesn't have those opponents on his resume. He's an ATG who could be considered the GOAT at this point if things went a little differently and he was more eager for competition rather than money.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> How am I acting like racism doesn't exist when I made a thread about it and just acknowledged that it does exist? That doesn't mean it applies at all times to all discussions.
> 
> Look, from here on out, if people don't stick to the topic at hand, I'm closing the thread. No more tangents and personal insults.


You should acknowledge my point on your view on votes or did you forgot that canelo vs cotto thread?


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Is this mentally ill guy still going? Anorexia+small penis= relentless ego (stubbornness)
> 
> I don't understand why you're claiming race has anything to do with criticism of Floyd's opponents, that is such a copout. If anything people are going to be biased against Floyd because of his 'money' persona and lifestyle.
> I like Floyd as a boxer, but he doesn't have those opponents on his resume. He's an ATG who could be considered the GOAT at this point if things went a little differently and he was more eager for competition rather than money.


Yeah i have such an ego when i'm making valid points. we should all be sheep and agree with each other. And why the fuck are you hurling insults at my race and making sterotype remarks still?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> You should acknowledge my point on your view on votes or did you forgot that canelo vs cotto thread?


For fuck's sake, not every minority opinion is wrong. Yours is wrong because you can't substantiate it in the face of numerous well-reasoned arguments. You said it was "beyond you" that MAB and EM could have resumes superior to Castillo.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> For fuck's sake, not every minority opinion is wrong. Yours is wrong because you can't substantiate it in the face of numerous well-reasoned arguments. You said it was "beyond you" that MAB and EM could have resumes superior to Castillo.


LOL and you are the judge huh? And i have an ego?

Again you do realize that most people pick Canelo by Ko over Cotto and Cotto got the better resume. isn't it very similar to this topic we are talking about now?
But wait it is bc last week you were the minority so therefore the minority was right that time. And i was even nice enough to give you the benefit of the doubt but guess who is being egoistic now?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> LOL and you are the judge huh? And i have an ego?


Stay on topic or the thread closes. Stop baiting.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Stay on topic or the thread closes. Stop baiting.


Who the hell is baiting. I am using your argument against you. Every few post you throw majority vote this and that and i'm the one baiting by calling you out? Everything i have said is related to this topic. so was my last post.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> You should acknowledge my point on your view on votes or did you forgot that canelo vs cotto thread?


tliang...you really need to just STFU for a little while. All you are doing is making yourself look an damn fool. The points you think you make aren't even things people are arguiong about for the most part, and you jump form side topic to side topic like you're playing hopscotch. Seriously, just stop this insanity you call 'making valid points'...because you aren't making much sense as a whole.

EDIT: Sorry Bogo... just bewildered by the nonsensical posting he thinks he's doing here.atsch


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

I already told you, being in the minority vote along doesn't make you wrong, but being unable to substantiate your arguments against numerous examples of reasoning against your argument, after laughing at the majority view, makes you wrong.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Mal said:


> tliang...you really need to just STFU for a little while. All you are doing is making yourself look an damn fool. The points you think you make aren't even things people are arguiong about for the most part, and you jump form side topic to side topic like you're playing hopscotch. Seriously, just stop this insanity you call 'making valid points'...because you aren't making much sense as a whole.


explain what i have said so far that doesn't have a valid point? Like my example of shane and oscar? Like the voting = personal opinion and not fact? 
You got people like Dealt with who dragged Sandy Saddler in here and hurling insults about me being chinese and i'm the one shifting side topic?


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> explain what i have said so far that doesn't have a valid point? Like my example of shane and oscar? Like the voting = personal opinion and not fact?
> You got people like Dealt with who dragged Sandy Saddler in here and hurling insults about me being chinese and i'm the one shifting side topic?


You've made it clear there's no point in explaining many things to you. All it will do is continue to confuse you. Have a good evening.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Mal said:


> You've made it clear there's no point in explaining many things to you. All it will do is continue to confuse you. Have a good evening.


More like the other way around. Next time if you want to turn this topic to another direction make sure you have a point.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> More like the other way around. Next time if you want to turn this topic to another direction make sure you have a point.


:rofl Was trying to do you a favor, and stop you from sounding like a crazed, over emotional loon.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Mal said:


> :rofl Was trying to do you a favor, and stop you from sounding like a crazed, over emotional loon.


Again... provide examples or stfu. From my pov you are being a pointless poster right now.

You got something to say regarding on this topic or not?


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## r1p00pk (Jun 13, 2013)

my fucking god, some unbelievable shit happening in here. Not even going to say why im so bewildered


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

How was Morales not prime in his 2nd fight against Pac.

He was in cruise control until the 5 th round?


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

Mayweather was Pac's biggest fan in the 2nd fight


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> How was Morales not prime in his 2nd fight against Pac.
> 
> He was in cruise control until the 5 th round?


He wasn't even prime in the first.


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> He wasn't even prime in the first.


pfffft..just saw both fights again. funny how 1 cut changes things.

Morales whooped up on a cut headbutted Pac. shit happens.

fast forward to Raheem who ran all night. Morales not even hurt.

10 months later after the first fight. they rematch again. Pac turns it up in the 6th round cutting Morales (no head butt)

give full credit to Pac giving Morales his first legit knockdown. floyd jumping like a fanboy. was an amazing fight.

shitty ending really for Corales.
just saw the chico mayweather Jr fight. man,his dad threw the fuckin towel. Again Floyd looked sharp. heard he made chico go down in weight.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> pfffft..just saw both fights again. funny how 1 cut changes things.
> 
> Morales whooped up on a cut headbutted Pac. shit happens.
> 
> ...


Morales was over the hill. How long you been watching boxing Doby, seriously?

Even prior to the Barrera/Pacquiao fight, the mags and HBO were asking Barrera about retirement, and even again they were asking him after.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Morales was over the hill. How long you been watching boxing Doby, seriously?
> 
> Even prior to the Barrera/Pacquiao fight, the mags and HBO were asking Barrera about retirement, and even again they were asking him after.


To add to this.
After Barrera's back to back losses to Junior jones. a lot of the boxing analysts suggested that he should prolly consider retirement due to his injury and past wars but hey he did string a winning streak and lose to Morales by SD which is not bad for someone with a life threaten injury. To me that he was on a comeback trail and want to prove that he is still relevant.

Personally and this is just me. I would not consider Barrera as fresh and in prime when they damn near died from taken so many shots to the head already.


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

the mags?

chico fought dumb against Mayweather. it was worse than DLH vs Pac.

chico is overrated by people here because he's dead.


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Morales was over the hill. How long you been watching boxing Doby, seriously?
> 
> Even prior to the Barrera/Pacquiao fight, the mags and HBO were asking Barrera about retirement, and even again they were asking him after.


Morales was old just like pac was old when he got starched by Marquez


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> Morales was old just like pac was old when he got starched by Marquez


No.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Yeah i have such an ego when i'm making valid points. we should all be sheep and agree with each other. And why the fuck are you hurling insults at my race and making sterotype remarks still?


You haven't made anything close to a valid point. And I didn't say anything about your race, I can just tell you have a small knob because you're so defensive and angry about nothing. Haven't you seen that South Park episode?


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> No.


here are my choices

Castillo, Barrera, Morales..........Chico.

chico's dad bet against his own son. disgusting stoppage. not even close to the MAB Rape from Pacquiao.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> Morales was old just like pac was old when he got starched by Marquez


Whats your point here?


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> You haven't made anything close to a valid point. And I didn't say anything about your race, I can just tell you have a small knob because you're so defensive and angry about nothing. Haven't you seen that South Park episode?


I'm going to clear shit up once and for all. I get defensive and angry when i see stupid people making stupid posts. And you are one of them.

As for the gay shit that you are trying to talk about, you are definitely wrong about that. Most skinny dudes doesn't. and why the fuck are you even thinking about my dick anyways? Let this be the last post about this. And u claim that i have mental issues :-(


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> here are my choices
> 
> Castillo, Barrera, Morales..........Chico.
> 
> chico's dad bet against his own son. disgusting stoppage. not even close to the MAB Rape from Pacquiao.


Lmao You're all over the place...


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> the mags?
> 
> chico fought dumb against Mayweather. it was worse than DLH vs Pac.
> 
> chico is overrated by people here because he's dead.


not sure if you are being serious here.... it seem too crazy to be for real.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

:huh



I'm going to sleep. Goodnight.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> :huh
> 
> I'm going to sleep. Goodnight.


Bogo,

I know we don't see eye to eye but you should try to moderate your friend. He is borderline racist (similar to relent) and creepy. I'm just saying.

gn


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> :huh
> 
> I'm going to sleep. Goodnight.


me too..

night bogo


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> I'm going to clear shit up once and for all. I get defensive and angry when i see stupid people making stupid posts. And you are one of them.
> 
> As for the gay shit that you are trying to talk about, you are definitely wrong about that. Most skinny dudes doesn't. and why the fuck are you even thinking about my dick anyways? Let this be the last post about this. And u claim that i have mental issues :-(


:rofl


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> here are my choices
> 
> Castillo, Barrera, Morales..........Chico.
> 
> chico's dad bet against his own son. disgusting stoppage. not even close to the MAB Rape from Pacquiao.


atsch


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

individually i Rate them in this order Morales > Barrera > Castillo > Corrales


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> me too..
> 
> night bogo


Doby,you've taken Manny's decline like a man and become a better poster for it, but do you honestly rate Castillo above Barrera?


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> the mags?
> 
> chico fought dumb against Mayweather. it was worse than DLH vs Pac.
> 
> chico is overrated by people here because he's dead.


the magazines. Everyone looks dumb against Mayweather :lol:


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

I think they have all fought guys around the same level and they are around the same level with Corrales just doesn't have enough of them. As for well he got this guy and he got that guy or he is slightly better or worse, fuck all that... people would never figure that crap out especially they compete in different weight classes, fought different opponents so how can you prove it? You can't.

Also a Good big guy beats a good little guy. So if they are on the same level or if close to same level, then Floyd got the better wins. Throw the out of prime/condition that they are in, makes it even easier to see who truly got the better win.


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## Iron Chin (Jul 31, 2013)

In terms of where they were in their careers?

Barrera


Coralles
Castillo

Morales

The Barrera win gives Manny the edge of those groupings. Really though Manny's resume since 2009 has been pretty bad and with Floyd's win over Canelo he has clearly separated himself from Manny.


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> I think they have all fought guys around the same level and they are around the same level with Corrales just doesn't have enough of them. As for well he got this guy and he got that guy or he is slightly better or worse, fuck all that... people would never figure that crap out especially they compete in different weight classes, fought different opponents so how can you prove it? You can't.
> 
> Also a Good big guy beats a good little guy. So if they are on the same level or if close to same level, then Floyd got the better wins. Throw the out of prime/condition that they are in, makes it even easier to see who truly got the better win.


FLoyd made Corrales drag down to 130

Pac made Morales drag down to 130..

the corales win is tainted by the early towel. BUT I had to watch it 3 times to see Floyd throw that hook that knocked Corales on his ass near the ropes.


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Doby,you've taken Manny's decline like a man and become a better poster for it, but do you honestly rate Castillo above Barrera?


Castillo was a VERY good win and probably the least EXCUSE victory for Floyd.

Barrera took Manny on a two weeks notice. had a forest fire ruin his training camp...

that's where I got Castilo over Barrera.


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## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> irrelevant? You said that MAB is in prime and p4p num3. And i replied that Floyd is p4p1 and out prime.
> 
> My point since you didn't get was to show you that YOU CAN BE OUT OF PRIME AND STILL BE RANKED P4P.


No one said you can't, so yes, your point is irrelevant.

Again, my post said:


Sittin Sonny said:


> Barrera *was considered at his peak and* a top 3 P4P fighter heading into the first Pacquiao fight.


Barrera was explicitly considered at his peak, and rated higher than he had ever been. Floyd is not rated any higher now than he has been in the past.



tliang1000 said:


> I don't know about you guys but when a guy got punched so many times and develops a blood clot ...


He didn't "develop a blood clot from being punched," he had a congenital defect that had been causing him neurological problems _during the time you claim he was in his prime_. It makes even less sense that you would claim he was in his prime while he was being bothered by this problem rather than after the surgery done to relieve it.


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## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Yeah lets use your definition. Bhop is still in prime, Floyd is still in prime. Everyone who is over 35+ who are winning a string of fights are ALL in prime.


No they aren't, because the guy explicitly said:



Chatty said:


> Prime means the run of fights in which you have *your best wins and performances* and this was Barrera's. If you can't work that out then you have no hope.


Why would you deliberately ignore the entire crux of his post?

And Hopkins isn't even on a "winning string" either - he's only won 2 out of his last 5 fights. Your analogy doesn't even make sense.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I can't be arsed to quote everybody, it would take too long individually so I'm gonna just sum it up in one post:

Morales - was definitely past his peak but at the same time was a good fighter, his only two losses come the first fight were against Barrera and he had two solid wins over Chavez and Hernandez before that. He did lose a big upset to Raheem but he was still a solid world level competitor, he'd also never looked like being stopped before and Pacquaio knocked him out twice which is still impressive today considering Maidana, Cano and Garcia couldn't do it in three consecutive fights five years down the line. People make a lot out of the David Diaz fight but I don't think many have watched it cause Morales won that fairly clearly imo.

Barrera was as near as a prime boxer as you can get, it would be like akin to someone beating Floyd now and people saying he was shot, sure he might not have been at the very apex of his game but he's only just walked over the peak and looking down the mountain. You can say what you want bu considering this is the best run of his career with quality wins both before and after, you just can't say it was a bad verson of Barrera in anyway. 

Again add to it that it was a huge underdog victory in which he won every round and stopped him (something no one has been able to do before or after), this fight is easily the best win out of the series.

Corrales, I rate this as an excellent victory, Corrales had looked brilliant up to this point (even though his competition wasn't great) and had his career best wins afterwards. Arguments have been put forth about him being drained and in bad mental shape due to a possible impending jail term but hey that's all on Corrales, not Floyd, he never had to take the fight.

Castillo, I had him winning the first fight but it was real close, i got no rpoblem with Floyd getting the nod and he handled him far easier in the second. Castillo was a very good fighter at that point and had some quality wins afterwards at probably his best weight.

I would rank them as most have said Barrera>Corrales>Castillo>Morales.

The thing is I don't have Castillo or Morales in either guys top two wins. Morales I think just scrapes a top five, its a flawed argument in that sense anyway.


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