# Mike Casey's weight by weight rankings.



## AlFrancis (Jun 6, 2012)

Just come across this on fb. Very interesting and there are a few fighters who don't get talked about much in here, any comments? I'm sure there will be.

HEAVYWEIGHTS
01. Jack Dempsey (USA)
02. Joe Louis (USA)
03. Jack Johnson (USA)
04. Rocky Marciano (USA)
05. Muhammad Ali (USA)
06. Gene Tunney (USA)
07. Jim Jeffries (USA)
08. George Foreman (USA)
09. Joe Frazier (US
10. Lennox Lewis (England)
11. Sam Langford (Canada)
12. Sonny Liston (USA)
13. Larry Holmes (USA)
14. Mike Tyson (USA)
15. Ezzard Charles (USA)
16. Bob Fitzsimmons (England)
17. Evander Holyfield (USA)
18. Joe Jeannette (USA)
19. Harry Wills (USA)
20. Max Baer (USA)


LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHTS
01. Gene Tunney (USA)
02. Ezzard Charles (USA)
03. Archie Moore (USA)
04. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien (USA)
05. Tommy Loughran (USA)
06. Jack Dillon (USA)
07. Maxie Rosenbloom (USA)
08. Billy Conn (USA) (USA)
09. Tommy Gibbons (USA)
10. Jack Delaney (Canada)
11. Young Stribling (USA)
12. John Henry Lewis (USA)
13. Bob Foster (USA)
14. Harold Johnson (USA)
15. Michael Spinks (USA)
16. Paul Berlenbach (USA)
17. Georges Carpentier (France)
18. Tiger Jack Fox (USA)
19. Jimmy Slattery (USA)
20. Joey Maxim (USA) 


MIDDLEWEIGHTS

01. Harry Greb (USA)
02. Stanley Ketchel (USA)
03. Sam Langford (Canada)
04. Ray Robinson (USA)
05. Carlos Monzon (Argentina)
06. Bob Fitzsimmons (England)
07. Mickey Walker (USA)
08. Marcel Cerdan (France)
09. Mike Gibbons (USA)
10. Freddie Steele (USA)
11. Charley Burley (USA)
12. Jake LaMotta (USA)
13. Tony Zale (USA)
14. Dick Tiger (Nigeria)
15. Marvin Hagler (USA)
16. Tommy Ryan (USA)
17. Tiger Flowers (USA)
18. Teddy Yarosz (USA)
19. Holman Williams (USA)
20. Gene Fullmer (USA


JUNIOR MIDDLEWEIGHTS

01. Thomas Hearns (USA)
02. Charley Burley (USA)
03. Wilfred Benitez (Puerto Rico)
04. Mike McCallum (Jamaica)
05. Nino Benvenuti (Italy)
06. Sandro Mazzinghi (Italy)
07. Emile Griffith (USA)
08. Ray Leonard (USA)
09. Ronald (Winky) Wright (USA)
10. Terry Norris (USA)
11. Felix Trinidad (Puerto Rico)
12. Julian Jackson (Virgin Islands)
13. Shane Mosley (USA)
14. Oscar De La Hoya (USA)
15. Ralph Dupas (USA)
16. Denny Moyer (USA)
17. Koichi Wajima (Japan)
18. Freddie Little (USA)
19. Ki Soo Kim (South Korea)
20. Ayub Kalule (Uganda


WELTERWEIGHTS

01. Ray Robinson (USA)
02. Henry Armstrong (USA)
03. Joe Walcott (Barbados)
04. Mickey Walker (USA)
05. Barney Ross (USA)
06. Jack Britton (USA)
07. Ted (Kid) Lewis (England)
08. Emile Griffith (USA)
09. Ray Leonard (USA)
10. Jose Napoles (Mexico)
11. Jimmy McLarnin (Ireland)
12. Carmen Basilio (USA)
13. Thomas Hearns (USA)
14. Harry Lewis (USA) 
15. Lou Brouillard (Canada)
16. Kid Gavilan (Cuba)
17. Tommy Ryan (USA)
18. Dixie Kid (USA)
19. Young Corbett III (USA)
20. Fritzie Zivic (USA)


JUNIOR WELTERWEIGHTS

01. Nicolino Locche (Argentina)
02. Packey McFarland (USA)
03. Barney Ross (USA)
04. Aaron Pryor (USA)
05. Wilfred Benitez (Puerto Rico)
06. Antonio Cervantes (Colombia)
07. Julio Cesar Chavez (Mexico)
08. Tony Canzoneri (USA)
09. Jack (Kid) Berg (England)
10. Duilio Loi (Italy)
11. Carlos Ortiz (Puerto Rico)
12. Kostya Tszyu (Australia)
13. Floyd Mayweather Jnr (USA)
14. Johnny Jadick (USA)
15. Tippy Larkin (USA)
16. Oscar De La Hoya (USA)
17. Carlos Hernandez (Venezuela)
18. Frankie Randall (USA)
19. Bruno Arcari (Italy)
20. Eddie Perkins (USA)



LIGHTWEIGHTS

01. Joe Gans (USA)
02. Benny Leonard (USA)
03. Henry Armstrong (USA)
04. Roberto Duran (Panama)
05. Tony Canzoneri (USA)
06. Freddie Welsh (Wales)
07. Packey McFarland (USA)
08. Barney Ross (USA)
09. Lou Ambers (USA)
10. Battling Nelson (Denmark)
11. Ike Williams (USA)
12. Carlos Ortiz (Puerto Rico)
13. Alexis Arguello (Nicaragua)
14. Jack Blackburn (USA)
15. Lew Tendler (USA)
16. Sammy Mandell (USA)
17. Beau Jack (USA)
18. Sammy Angott (USA)
19. Joe Brown (USA)
20. Pernell Whitaker (USA)


JUNIOR LIGHTWEIGHTS

01. Alexis Arguello (Nicaragua)
02. Sandy Saddler (USA)
03. Johnny Dundee (USA)
04. Kid Chocolate (Cuba)
05. Manny Pacquiao (Philippines)
06. Bobby Chacon (USA)
07. Frankie Klick (USA)
08. Flash Elorde (Philippines)
09. Azumah Nelson (Ghana)
10. Benny Bass (USA)
11. Tod Morgan (USA)
12. Brian Mitchell (South Africa)
13. Samuel Serrano (Puerto Rico)
14. Genaro Hernandez (USA)
15. Hiroshi Kobayashi (Japan)
16. Rafael (Bazooka) Limon (Mexico)
17. Ben Villaflor (Philippines)
18. Tony Lopez (USA)
19. Alfredo Escalera (Puerto Rico)
20. Rocky Lockridege (USA)



FEATHERWEIGHTS

01. Jim Driscoll (Ireland)
02. Willie Pep (USA)
03. Sandy Saddler (USA)
04. Abe Attell (USA)
05. Henry Armstrong (USA)
06. Johnny Dundee (USA)
07. Young Griffo (Australia)
08. Johnny Kilbane (USA)
09. Owen Moran (England)
10. Vicente Saldivar (Mexico)
11. Alexis Arguello (Nicaragua)
12. Terry McGovern (USA)
13. Tony Canzoneri (USA)
14. George Dixon (Canada)
15. Kid Chocolate (Cuba)
16. Louis (Kid) Kaplan (USA)
17. Freddie Miller (USA)
18. Chalky Wright (USA)
19. Salvador Sanchez (Mexico)
20. Eder Jofre (Brazil)


BANTAMWEIGHTS

01. Eder Jofre (Brazil)
02. Ruben Olivares (Mexico)
03. Carlos Zarate (Mexico)
04. Pete Herman (USA)
05. Kid Williams (USA)
06. Panama Al Brown (Panama)
07. Manuel Ortiz (USA)
08. Terry McGovern (USA)
09. George Dixon (Canada)
10. Owen Moran (England)
11. Fighting Harada (Japan)
12. Johnny Coulon (Canada)
13. Joe Lynch (USA)
14. Bud Taylor (USA)
15. Jeff Chandler (USA)
16. Frankie Burns (USA)
17. Memphis Pal Moore (USA)
18. Sixto Escobar (Puerto Rico)
19. Pete Sanstol (USA)
20. Lupe Pintor (Mexico)




FLYWEIGHTS

01. Jimmy Wilde (Wales)
02. Pancho Villa (Pjilippines)
03. Pascual Perez (Argentina)
04. Jimmy Barry (USA)
05. Fidel La Barba (USA)
06. Benny Lynch (Scotland)
07. Midget Wolgast (USA)
08. Horacio Accavallo (Argentina)
09. Frankie Genaro (USA)
10. Miguel Canto (Mexico)
11. Ricardo Lopez (Mexico)
12. Peter Kane (England)
13. Johnny Buff (USA)
14. Pone Kingpetch (Thailand)
15. Fighting Harada (Japan)
16. Chartchai Chionoi (Thailand)
17. Masao Ohba (Japan)
18. Hiroyuki Ebihara (Japan)
19. Efren Torres (Mexico)
20. Michael Carbajal (USA



POUND FOR POUND

01. Ray Robinson (USA)
02. Bob Fitzsimmons (England)
03. Henry Armstrong (USA)
04. Sam Langford (Canada)
05. Harry Greb (USA)
06. Joe Gans (USA)
06. Jimmy Wilde Wales)
08. Benny Leonard (USA)
09. Jack Dempsey (USA)
10. Eder Jofre (Brazil)
11. Willie Pep (USA)
12. Joe Louis (USA)
13. Muhammad Ali (USA)
14. Jack Johnson (USA)
15. Roberto Duran (Panama)
16. Stanley Ketchel (USA)
17. Tony Canzoneri (USA)
18. Mickey Walker USA)
19. Ezzard Charles (USA)
20. Archie Moore (USA


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## rockyssplitnose (Jun 7, 2012)

AlFrancis said:


> Just come across this on fb. Very interesting and there are a few fighters who don't get talked about much in here, any comments? I'm sure there will be.
> 
> HEAVYWEIGHTS
> 01. Jack Dempsey (USA)
> ...


Awesome lists - scarily closely aligned with my own rankings (really scarily closely actually haha) - at every weight aswell haha!!?? Almost to a 'T'!? Only really differences I can spot at first glance is me switching Marciano to the number 1 spot at heavy and me switching Pancho Villa to number 1 at Fly - other than that freakishly close to my own!? Haha


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## thistle1 (Jun 7, 2013)

Mike Casey is a good historian and an excellent writer, his list would most certainly be well thought out, researched and scrutinised heavily by himself first. He knows great fighters as well as anyone and his list would be a good measure. I can't & don't ever go as far to try list fighters, but Mike's list would always be, among some others, a great template!!!


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

He is a great writer. Really good with the words and all.....
Don´t agree with his list too much, but it´s his list not mine.....Dempsey at first is a bit too much IMHO. But hey, his number 10 at p4p is nice to see in there...


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

How do you not rate Greb at LHW and MW? Greb should be #1 at both. Hes not even rated at LHW despite beating FIVE of Casey's top ten. Somehow he rated Greb #5 p4p behind Langford (#1 1 at HW and #3 behind Greb at MW), Fitzsimmons (#1 6 at HW and #6 behind Greb at MW). Those two alone give pause to how Greb is ranked head to head below them. If Tunney, Langford, and Fitz are ranked in two weight divisions then why leave Greb out of the LHWs where he was damn near unbeatable for most of his career.

Look at Casey's LHWs:

LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHTS
01. Gene Tunney (USA) Greb beat him 3 times out of five, though lost one a criminal decision of those three. Tunney only legitimately beat him once at LHW.

05. Tommy Loughran (USA) Greb beat him four out of six and drew another.

06. Jack Dillon (USA) Greb beat him two out of two.

07. Maxie Rosenbloom (USA) Greb beat him one out of one.

09. Tommy Gibbons (USA) Greb beat him two out of four.

10. Jack Delaney (Canada) Refused to fight Greb.

16. Paul Berlenbach (USA) Refused to fight Greb.

17. Georges Carpentier (France) Refused to fight Greb.

19. Jimmy Slattery (USA) Greb beat him one out of one.

Can any other fighter in any of these divisional rankings boast a record like that over similarly ranked fighters and yet get left out of those rankings completely??


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

With his willingness to rank in multiple divisions his omission of greb at lhw is a strange one. I personally rank only in one division but he clearly does not.


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## Burt Brooks (Jun 6, 2012)

Who am I to argue with Mike Casey ? Except for putting Ray Robinson ahead of Harry Greb in best P4P fighter...Harry Greb at middleweight
beat top fighters TWO divisions heavier than he. But Ray Robinson NEVER even attempted to Face, let alone beat top lightheavyweights, who were two divisions heavier than the welterweight class...Ray Robinson, great as he was, KNEW his limitations, while the fearless dynamo Harry Greb, had NO limitations...


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## Bill Jincock (Jun 19, 2012)

DLH and Mosley above Kalule and Freddie Little at 154 is almost as bad as leaving out Greb tbh:yep


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Bill Jincock said:


> DLH and Mosley above Kalule and Freddie Little at 154 is almost as bad as leaving out Greb tbh:yep


I'd have Oscar above both at that weight tbh mate. As it is I rank him as a WW.


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Bill Jincock said:


> DLH and Mosley above Kalule and Freddie Little at 154 is almost as bad as leaving out Greb tbh:yep


Yeah, I didnt even get into some of his other odd choices: Packey McFarland at Jr. Welter?? McFarland wouldnt even know what a Jr. Welterweight was. Mazzinghi at #6 for Jr. Middleweight? Im a big fan of Mazzinghi but hes nowhere near that high and certainly not above Little. Benitez, one of my favorite fighters at #3 at Jr. Middle? That smacks of going out of your way to squeeze him into a ranking SOMEWHERE. How do you put Marcel Cerdan so high at Middleweight based on largely forgettable competition and above Jake LaMotta who fought and beat tougher opposition and was ducked by many fighters for much of his career? Charley Burley at Jr. Middleweight is as puzzling as the rankings of Benitez and McFarland. It seems to me that Burley couldnt crack his top ten middleweights or welterweights so he squeezed him into a division that didnt even exist during Burley's career. Ridiculous. This is the kind of junk Herb Goldman used to publish. Locche is way to high at Jr. Welter, Perkins is ridiculously low and should at least bump Loi. How do you have Dempsey as the greatest heavyweight of all time when he didnt even prove he was the greatest heavyweight of his reign? How do you have Gene Tunney at #6 for HW when he had what six fights at HW, maybe eight with his only noteworthy wins coming against Dempsey. Now if you rank Tunney that high based on his wins over Dempsey then you either believe that Dempsey was damn near his prime in those fights and Tunney's performance was a revelation (in which case you need to reevaluate Dempsey's high ranking) OR Dempsey was passed his best and those wins werent really that spectacular, in which case maybe we should reevaluate ranking him so high based on two wins.


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## scribbs (Dec 8, 2012)

Klompton said:


> Yeah, I didnt even get into some of his other odd choices: Packey McFarland at Jr. Welter?? McFarland wouldnt even know what a Jr. Welterweight was. Mazzinghi at #6 for Jr. Middleweight? Im a big fan of Mazzinghi but hes nowhere near that high and certainly not above Little. Benitez, one of my favorite fighters at #3 at Jr. Middle? That smacks of going out of your way to squeeze him into a ranking SOMEWHERE. How do you put Marcel Cerdan so high at Middleweight based on largely forgettable competition and above Jake LaMotta who fought and beat tougher opposition and was ducked by many fighters for much of his career? Charley Burley at Jr. Middleweight is as puzzling as the rankings of Benitez and McFarland. It seems to me that Burley couldnt crack his top ten middleweights or welterweights so he squeezed him into a division that didnt even exist during Burley's career. Ridiculous. This is the kind of junk Herb Goldman used to publish. Locche is way to high at Jr. Welter, Perkins is ridiculously low and should at least bump Loi. How do you have Dempsey as the greatest heavyweight of all time when he didnt even prove he was the greatest heavyweight of his reign? How do you have Gene Tunney at #6 for HW when he had what six fights at HW, maybe eight with his only noteworthy wins coming against Dempsey. Now if you rank Tunney that high based on his wins over Dempsey then you either believe that Dempsey was damn near his prime in those fights and Tunney's performance was a revelation (in which case you need to reevaluate Dempsey's high ranking) OR Dempsey was passed his best and those wins werent really that spectacular, in which case maybe we should reevaluate ranking him so high based on two wins.


Because its a fantasy list. Why people like yourself get worked up on pointless lists like this is beyond my comprehension. I learned long ago that it's a waste of time doing historical rankings as can you really assess different era's, the answer is no as their are really no common benchmarks. Can you really rank Mike Tyson above Joe Frazier? They fought in different era's with different lengths of fights with no common opponents & if they did have common opponents then it would be moot as one would be at the beginning of his career & one at the end. As I said POINTLESS!


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Then why post it to begin with? If you are going to post opinions for public consumption then dont get bent out of shape when the public debates those opinions.


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## scribbs (Dec 8, 2012)

Lets put it this way. You're list will be different to his & my own if I had one. In any list there will be a bias somewhere so that will shape a list & things can be debated to the end of time if someone takes a certain viewpoint & is stubborn. Don't get me wrong I used to rank like this but came to the conclusion after a couple of decades following this sport that it really is about personal taste when ranking. In the end I will look over a list but not get hot headed over it because it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. I ain't as anal about people's opinions as I used to be. You seem a knowledgeable fellow & will do your own research/viewing to form you're own point of view which some will agree & some not, that's life.

The problem ranking people with little/no footage you are going on other people's opinions of the time. As an example (I will not debate this as been through this numerous times on this forum & others) take the Tim Bradley vs Manny Pacquiao fight. The consensus reaction to this result was an outright robbery but I agreed with the decision which was the final nail in the coffin as far taking historical info as face value. Can you really rate Barbodos Joe Walcott above SRR when you have not seen the Demon fight, it makes no sense to me anyway (I'm not stating you do but just as an eg.)

In the end I'm not spoiling for a war of written words just personally I don't think you should take these lists too seriously, but if you do then that's you're prerogative. 

Final note: Hope the Greb book is a success as he's my favourite fighter to read about. :thumbsup


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## DharmaBum (Jun 5, 2013)

Yeeeah... I love Casey's articles, they're really well written, lighthearted and passionate at the same time, big fan of his work, but some of these lists really puzzle me. I think he rates the fighters according to the weight he feels they should have naturally and... I dunno pictures how they would fare in said division against the other guys H2H maybe? He did mention he felt the only reason Packey never got a title was because there was no JWW in his time, so that would explain the weird weight ratings. He also seems to take H2H in high consideration judging from his articles which would explain Cerdan (seems to be a big fan of Cerdan's). Nah I don't really know what he's doing. How come Johnson is ahead of Ali in the HW rankings and behind him in the P4P? And that HW list... Ahh I think I'm done with lists too. Same crap every time. They only stress you out.


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

scribbs said:


> Lets put it this way. You're list will be different to his & my own if I had one. In any list there will be a bias somewhere so that will shape a list & things can be debated to the end of time if someone takes a certain viewpoint & is stubborn. Don't get me wrong I used to rank like this but came to the conclusion after a couple of decades following this sport that it really is about personal taste when ranking. In the end I will look over a list but not get hot headed over it because it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. I ain't as anal about people's opinions as I used to be. You seem a knowledgeable fellow & will do your own research/viewing to form you're own point of view which some will agree & some not, that's life.
> 
> The problem ranking people with little/no footage you are going on other people's opinions of the time. As an example (I will not debate this as been through this numerous times on this forum & others) take the Tim Bradley vs Manny Pacquiao fight. The consensus reaction to this result was an outright robbery but I agreed with the decision which was the final nail in the coffin as far taking historical info as face value. Can you really rate Barbodos Joe Walcott above SRR when you have not seen the Demon fight, it makes no sense to me anyway (I'm not stating you do but just as an eg.)
> 
> ...


I get what you are saying but most of the time the lists that I dont necessarily agree with have a criteria that you can at least puzzle out. Even that bizarre one that was posted by Ring Magazine a while back. This one is just all over the place. At times it seems arbitrary. At times it seems like he is playing favorites. At times it just seems down right inconsistent, some rules apply to some fighters but not to others etc.

You thought Bradley beat Pac? I dont really care either way. Neither is my favorite fighter or anything but I watched that fight after the fact (I didnt get to see it live) and I went out of my way to be generous to Bradley (which you should never do I admit). I had the fight closer than most but still a clear win for Pac (by a round or two). Regardless, the vast vast vast majority of people thought it was a robbery (I say people, not just writers). So why should that be the final nail in the coffin? Ive seen fights that I didnt agree with the decision but I realize Im in the minority so I cant really complain much. Id find a different fight to hammer that nail than Pac-Bradley.

As for ranking people without footage I think it depends on what you are looking for. Are you ranking them based on their technique or how "pretty" they look? To me thats a different than ranking them based on their accomplishments (which is what it all boils down to). There have been plenty of "good looking" fighters who dont amount to squat. I use Greb because he is always the one brought up: We dont have any fight footage of Greb but we have footage of several dozen opponents of his. In most cases they look good. Some look great. Greb beat them and I dont care if he looked like Ricardo Mayorga or a ten year old girl, he beat them and kept on beating them. Thats all I need to know.

P.S. Just finishing the Greb book is all the success I need at this point. It was a long haul and Im sure most people didnt think it would ever be completed. I set out to write the boxing book Id always wanted. I at least accomplished that so Im happy.


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## scribbs (Dec 8, 2012)

Klompton said:


> I get what you are saying but most of the time the lists that I dont necessarily agree with have a criteria that you can at least puzzle out. Even that bizarre one that was posted by Ring Magazine a while back. This one is just all over the place. *At times it seems arbitrary*. At times it seems like he is playing favorites. At times it just seems down right inconsistent, some rules apply to some fighters but not to others etc.


That's the reason I view them with indifference. I don't believe anyone's including mine when I attempted them are done with 100% impartiality & I would state that you're list would be the same, although you may disagree with that statement. If someone wants to pick it apart they can if they really wanted to.



Klompton said:


> You thought Bradley beat Pac? I dont really care either way. Neither is my favorite fighter or anything but I watched that fight after the fact (I didnt get to see it live) and I went out of my way to be generous to Bradley (which you should never do I admit). I had the fight closer than most but still a clear win for Pac (by a round or two). Regardless, the vast vast vast majority of people thought it was a robbery (I say people, not just writers). So why should that be the final nail in the coffin? Ive seen fights that I didnt agree with the decision but I realize Im in the minority so I cant really complain much. Id find a different fight to hammer that nail than Pac-Bradley.


Let me just state this, I watched the fight about 4-8 weeks after the fight after reading, listening to fans & media lambast the decision with some calling it the worse robbery ever if not in many decades. I'd been doing research into some old obscure fighters (more for my own entertainment than anything) & it got me thinking if this fight had been years ago without footage then I would have accepted it as a robbery. I've accepted I'm in a very select minority & your scorecard is more believable than the 118-110 scorecards some had. That's why I class it as the nail in the coffin & just realised that even media can colour a viewpoint. I take everything with a pinch of salt unless I have experience of the situation. I will admit I had a naive viewpoint before.



Klompton said:


> As for ranking people without footage I think it depends on what you are looking for. Are you ranking them based on their technique or how "pretty" they look? To me thats a different than ranking them based on their accomplishments (which is what it all boils down to). There have been plenty of "good looking" fighters who dont amount to squat. I use Greb because he is always the one brought up: We dont have any fight footage of Greb but we have footage of several dozen opponents of his. In most cases they look good. Some look great. Greb beat them and I dont care if he looked like Ricardo Mayorga or a ten year old girl, he beat them and kept on beating them. Thats all I need to know.


Tbh I just watch a fight & score it & that's it. I don't even analyse before a fight now & just go on gut feelings but that is through going through some tough times/issues in the real world so I take things in stride instead of analysing everything. Sports is a field that with time the hero's of yesteryear take on a persona that may be just someone's figment of an imagination.

Maybe the pendulum has swung from one side to the other & I just see things from a different perspective. Maybe I'm cantankerous :twisted.



Klompton said:


> P.S. Just finishing the Greb book is all the success I need at this point. It was a long haul and Im sure most people didnt think it would ever be completed. I set out to write the boxing book Id always wanted. I at least accomplished that so Im happy.


I've seen on various forums you've been doing this as a labour of love & much kudos. I have to admire people like yourself who research & assimilate the info for others enjoyment. I've accumulated quite alot of files on a 1890/1900's fighter(s) but don't really have a clue in regards to doing a article so much respect for doing the book. I've got the Paxton book but it seems many don't like it but I will invest in you're book when all the distro issues are ironed out.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Stopped reading at Dempsey.


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## thistle1 (Jun 7, 2013)

^^^ WHY? - because you can't accept Old Footage IS Poor, mostly not filmed right and in many cases just plain shit. But the fighters were real people and did everything just the same as you & I. which of course means they fought for real too!!!


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## natonic (Jun 13, 2012)

I realize Floyd Mayweather is one of the least likeable great fighters ever (I can't stand the guy). But any Jr. Lightweight list which does not contain him lacks credibility.............Ray Leonard 9th at 147???..............Whitaker 20th at 135????????

Is this list from 2013?


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