# how many amateurs beat everyone they fought?



## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

One thing that always intrigues me is those who beat everyone they fought. Rocky, Lewis, Tunney, Lopez all defeated every man the shared a pro ring with.

How many boxers through history can say the same as an amateur? That they defeated everyone they fought?


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Probably some guys that only had a hand full of fights. When it comes to world class amateurs the only one is Lomachenko (396-1), who avenged that loss. You take losses in the amateur game, it's inevitable.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Ricardo Lopez and Vasyl Lomachenko.
Nope, made mistake

Ricardo Lopez has 1 loss, not sure if avenged.

Vasyl as far as I know avenged his loss/losses


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## Gunner (Jun 4, 2013)

Amateur records are _incredibly_ hard to verify.


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## Antsu (Jun 4, 2013)

Wasnt Andre Ward undefeated as a amateur. I remember one commentator stating that during one of his fights


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## tawetrent (Jun 9, 2013)

Antsu said:


> Wasnt Andre Ward undefeated as a amateur. I remember one commentator stating that during one of his fights


I've heard the line " hasn't lost since he was 12" many times so that's as close to unbeaten as you can get in my book :deal


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## Gunner (Jun 4, 2013)

I highly doubt Lomanchenko's record btw. And Ward has been beaten at least twice, that I personally know of.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Delahoya beat Mosley but MOsley was still 1-3 in the AMs I believe. He beat Rudolph and Ruelas too. And Stopped Ruelas in the pros :yep


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## jonnytightlips (Jun 14, 2012)

Its almost impossible to do it in the amateurs. But Lomachenko is the only supposed one I can think of.


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## Copernicus (Jun 6, 2013)

Peoples lack of amateur knowledge on here is astounding! Il introduce you to some great amateurs:

A modern day great:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillermo_Rigondeaux

Greatest LWW ever:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Kulej

Greatest WW at amateur level:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleg_Saitov

Greatest MW ever:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/László_Papp

Probably the greatest of our time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasyl_Lomachenko

The unstoppable Machine Boris Lagutin (3 times olympic medallist), Valeri popenchenko, Aleksei Tishchenko, Teofilio Stevenson, The Great Oliver Kirk, Mario Kindelan, Giovanni Benvenuti, who i could go on and on...


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Breland only lost once as an amateur in 111 fights to Darryl Anthony. Dunno if he fought him again as an amateur but he knocked him out as a pro.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Robinson was meant to have been unbeaten as an amateur but then that is only subject to whos telling the story.

Kid Chocolate also went 100-0.

Napoles avenged his only defeat in 114 against Ventosa if that was who he lost against as some reports having losing against his cousin.

Benvenutti was either undefeated in 120 or lost one, fuck knows who against though.

Ricardo Lopez lost 1 but again fuck knows who to.


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## Copernicus (Jun 6, 2013)

Robinson was beaten by an irish kid, forget his name.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Robinson was meant to have been unbeaten as an amateur but then that is only subject to whos telling the story.
> 
> Kid Chocolate also went 100-0.
> 
> ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_López_(boxer)
López would win four consecutive Guantes de Oro de México Championships from 1981 to 1984. López turned pro without having ever lost an amateur bout.
:huh

Also Felix Savon if I remember correctly has avenged all his losses


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Robinson was meant to have been unbeaten as an amateur but then that is only subject to whos telling the story.
> 
> Kid Chocolate also went 100-0.
> 
> ...


Kid Chocolate's record was a publicity stunt, not true


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Copernicus said:


> Robinson was beaten by an irish kid, forget his name.


I've heard he was beaten up to six times in the ams but who knows, its all speculation.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> Kid Chocolate's record was a publicity stunt, not true


Wouldn't surprise me.

But then again Loma, Rigo, Curry etc are listed as 400+ fights and I highly dispute those as well. I think a lot of amateur records are bullshit.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

dyna said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_López_(boxer)
> López would win four consecutive Guantes de Oro de México Championships from 1981 to 1984. López turned pro without having ever lost an amateur bout.
> :huh
> 
> Also Felix Savon if I remember correctly has avenged all his losses


Again, I seen somewhere else that he lost one. He didn't have many fights though did he. Amateur records are ridiculously hard to narrow down though, I presume most are incorrect or exagerrated in some way.


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Cheers for thee responses guys.

I know it's hard rematching as they aren't in control of who they fight.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

dyna said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_López_(boxer)
> López would win four consecutive Guantes de Oro de México Championships from 1981 to 1984. López turned pro without having ever lost an amateur bout.
> :huh
> 
> Also Felix Savon if I remember correctly has avenged all his losses


Ricardo Lopez was 37-1 as an amateur.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Ricardo Lopez was 37-1 as an amateur.


After googling a bit I see 37-1 is the most common mentioned record for Lopez, so I guess you're right and I was wrong.


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## Boxing Fanatic (Jun 5, 2013)

lomachenko


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Do youth records count towards these figures?


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I remember Rigo being quoted as having about 150 fights after his first Olympics, next Olympics he was about 300, then turned over at around 420. Just looked now and he is creeping up to 500.

Guys moonlighting as an amateur it seems:lol:


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Luf said:


> Do youth records count towards these figures?


yeah, every bout that is carded (or is meant to be anyway)


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Wouldn't surprise me.
> 
> But then again Loma, Rigo, Curry etc are listed as 400+ fights and I highly dispute those as well. I think a lot of amateur records are bullshit.


There are plenty of fighters with 300-400 amateur fights, I don't think that indicates anything. Many tournaments require you to fight 4-5 times in as many days. Regional fights, national fights, worlds, Euros etc. there are a lot of amateur tournaments. If you only fight 20 times a year from the age of 10-25 then that's 300 fights right there. As a fighter is coming up they are often competing every other weekend just to get rounds and experience in. When an amateur reaches the top level they compete a little less often and focus on the big tournaments.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Chatty said:


> I remember Rigo being quoted as having about 150 fights after his first Olympics, next Olympics he was about 300, then turned over at around 420. Just looked now and he is creeping up to 500.
> 
> Guys moonlighting as an amateur it seems:lol:


I've only ever heard two figures: 400-12 and 280-4, with the former most commonly cited.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

To do that you will have to fight international from your first season. Rigo might not be as bad as he was near 30 when he turned over but Curry was 19 - there's no way he racked up 400 fights in 8 years.

He would be fighting like 10 times a month once you have taken the winter break and summer season off.

Lomas 25 and has boxed at a high level, I still don't believe he is in the 400s though, he'll probably have a mighty fine record but promoters etc love to add shit on. I'd love to see his cards.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> I've only ever heard two figures: 400-12 and 280-4, with the former most commonly cited.


I think the 280-4 is probably about right, thats a lot of fights. He was 400-12 for a good while as well according to many - (I think they claimed that this was his true record with many fights discounted) but thats some jump and now they are saying he had around 475.


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## jonnytightlips (Jun 14, 2012)

Alot of amateur records are made up in some shape or form. Coaches often lose fighters records and make up results. This even happened to me when I boxed.


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

I wouldn't put too much trust in amateur records there's no way to verify them


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## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Izzy Vasquez won all 57 of his amateur fights by knockout, didn't lose 1


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Chatty said:


> To do that you will have to fight international from your first season. Rigo might not be as bad as he was near 30 when he turned over but Curry was 19 - there's no way he racked up 400 fights in 8 years.
> 
> He would be fighting like 10 times a month once you have taken the winter break and summer season off.
> 
> Lomas 25 and has boxed at a high level, I still don't believe he is in the 400s though, he'll probably have a mighty fine record but promoters etc love to add shit on. I'd love to see his cards.


It's the other way round, when you're just a regional fighter or a young fighter you fight more often. Lomachenko has said that in recent years he has avoided fighting so often to prevent burning out/losing motivation. In 2011 he had 16 fights and he's been fighting since he was 4-5 years old. That's ~20 years of competition, 16 fights a year and that takes it to 320. Early on he would've been fighting far more often than 16 times a year.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

LP said:


> Izzy Vasquez won all 57 of his amateur fights by knockout, didn't lose 1


That's BS, he had 58 fights (from his mouth), no one knows his win-loss ratio. I guarantee that he didn't win every fight by stoppage.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> It's the other way round, when you're just a regional fighter or a young fighter you fight more often. Lomachenko has said that in recent years he has avoided fighting so often to prevent burning out/losing motivation. In 2011 he had 16 fights and he's been fighting since he was 4-5 years old. That's ~20 years of competition, 16 fights a year and that takes it to 320. Early on he would've been fighting far more often than 16 times a year.


yeah but 4-11 aren't classed on your record.


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Chuck Davey. Ezzard Charles.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Chatty said:


> Breland only lost once as an amateur in 111 fights to Darryl Anthony. Dunno if he fought him again as an amateur


Breland avenged his only amateur defeat by KO.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Luf said:


> How many boxers through history can say the same as an amateur? That they defeated everyone they fought?


Chiquita Gonzalez had a 23-0 record as an amateur.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

dyna said:


> Ricardo Lopez and Vasyl Lomachenko.
> 
> Lopez is still the only world champion who went undefeated in every boxing match he's even been in. (Amateur and pro)


Lopez truly is the perfect fighter :haggis


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## infini_IV (Jun 6, 2013)

lewis never beat mccall, yes he won the fight but never beat the man


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Lopez truly is the perfect fighter :haggis


37-1 :deal Just a novice


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Luf said:


> How many boxers through history can say the same as an amateur? That they defeated everyone they fought?


Dorian Melamed - 44 (42 KO's)-0. 32 knockouts in the first round.

7 (6 KO's)-0 as a pro.

Here's an article on him:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...9olAAAAIBAJ&sjid=FfQFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1195,1702799


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Dorian Melamed - 44 (42 KO's)-0. 32 knockouts in the first round.
> 
> 7 (6 KO's)-0 as a pro.
> 
> ...


good read mate. Never heard of him before :good


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

11 years old at amateurs. 24 years old after amateurs. 14 years as an amateur.

16fights per year x14=224 fights.


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## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

Remember Courage Tshabalala who fought Maskaev

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courage_Tshabalala

"Tshabalala had a reported amateur boxing record of 72-1 with 72 knockouts. He lost his first amateur match by decision, and won all amateur bouts from then on by first round knockout."


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## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> That's BS, he had 58 fights (from his mouth), no one knows his win-loss ratio. I guarantee that he didn't win every fight by stoppage.


Calm down kid. A commentator said it in one of his early fights


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## doylexxx (Jun 9, 2012)

Gerorge foremans amateur record is more outstanding 22 wins and 3 losses and a gold medal

put that in perspective, the highest level - shortest amount of fights- olympic HW champion

thats amazing, its like you got a guy off the street and dropped him into the amatuer boxing and he conquered it in miliseconds !


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Great finds guys.

Can anyone elaborate on Charles's record?


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

dyna said:


> Ricardo Lopez and Vasyl Lomachenko.Lopez is still the only world champion who went undefeated in every boxing match he's even been in. (Amateur and pro)


According to Boxingscoop, Lomachenko's record is 47-2.

Odd, I know. Maybe they only list verified fights, but still that's two VERIFIED losses:

http://www.boxing-scoop.com/show_boxer.php?boxer_ID=8586


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> According to Boxingscoop, Lomachenko's record is 47-2.
> 
> Odd, I know. Maybe they only list verified fights, but still that's two VERIFIED losses:
> 
> http://www.boxing-scoop.com/show_boxer.php?boxer_ID=8586


Whoops, I didn't even mean unbeaten, just beaten anyone who he has ever faced.
My mistake there.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> According to Boxingscoop, Lomachenko's record is 47-2.
> 
> Odd, I know. Maybe they only list verified fights, but still that's two VERIFIED losses:
> 
> http://www.boxing-scoop.com/show_boxer.php?boxer_ID=8586


Ah.. no. That site is absolutely useless for amateur records. As you can see with your own eyes both the L's there are 16-11 losses to Albert Selimov, one at 125 (the division he actually lost to him in at the 2007 worlds) and one at 105 (that never happened). There are a whole list of doubled up fights with no date but with the same score against the same opponents. Do you think he's won two golds and two worlds with less than 50 fights? I think you've verified that you're a bit of an idiot.
Here's the most official results you'll find of Lomachenko's since he's been a senior, and as you can see he has had 60+ fights listed here with the one loss, before the London olympics. Lomachenko himself has said that his record is 396-1.

http://www.aiba-london2012.com/index.php/boxers/b-men-s-light-60kg/370-vasyl-lomachenko


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

doylexxx said:


> Gerorge foremans amateur record is more outstanding 22 wins and 3 losses and a gold medal
> 
> put that in perspective, the highest level - shortest amount of fights- olympic HW champion
> 
> thats amazing, its like you got a guy off the street and dropped him into the amatuer boxing and he conquered it in miliseconds !


Anthony Joshua isn't that far off that number. When you have an unlimited weight division that makes it a bit less impressive imo.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Luf said:


> Can anyone elaborate on Charles's record?


42-0


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> 37-1 :deal Just a novice


:haye


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

I don't understand how legends with quality records don't make the olympic like Charles, Robinson and Benvenuti x


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> According to Boxingscoop, Lomachenko's record is 47-2.
> 
> Odd, I know. Maybe they only list verified fights, but still that's two VERIFIED losses:
> 
> http://www.boxing-scoop.com/show_boxer.php?boxer_ID=8586


:lol: This is bullshit and double counted his loss to Selimov.

Selimov at 105lbs :lol: just, no.


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## TBooze (Dec 9, 2012)

Vysotsky said:


> Remember Courage Tshabalala who fought Maskaev
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courage_Tshabalala
> 
> "Tshabalala had a reported amateur boxing record of 72-1 with 72 knockouts. He lost his first amateur match by decision, and won all amateur bouts from then on by first round knockout."


Git; beat me too it!

His late brother, Ginger, was allegedly pretty special as well. He certainly looked better as a pro.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=4164&cat=boxer


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> :lol: This is bullshit and double counted his loss to Selimov. Selimov at 105lbs :lol: just, no.


Good catch!I dunno a thing about that website. It seems like it should be a pretty useful resource, but they're missing a ton of fights AND a lot of important fighters, esp older ones. Maybe it's a new site and getting sorted out?


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## TBooze (Dec 9, 2012)

dyna said:


> Also Felix Savon if I remember correctly has avenged all his losses


'In the Red Corner' John Duncan's excellent book on Cuban boxing, has a first hand account of one of his rare defeats in the Cuba. Juan Causse Delis holds at least two wins over Savon, one in 1986 in the 'Torneo de Equipos'; then in 1997:


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Luf said:


> I don't understand how legends with quality records don't make the olympic like Charles, Robinson and Benvenuti x


Well nino did make the Olympics and won the val baker trophy over Cassius Clay. The Olympics weren't as important for guys back in the day. Plus the two you mentioned wouldn't have gotten to go anyway because of WW II. That 1940 olympic team could have had Charles, Robinson, Pep, and Ike Williams if that had been a thing.


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## DavidUK (Jun 10, 2013)

Joe Calzaghe was undefeated as am amateur from the age of 15 until he turned pro apparently


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Why didn't Joe go for the olympics?


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

DavidUK said:


> Joe Calzaghe was undefeated as am amateur from the age of 15 until he turned pro apparently


Ive heard joe say a number of times he lost his first fight. The numbers ive seen are around 120 - 130 bouts between 120 to 128 wins. Bbc report 10 losses in 120 bouts


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## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

jonnytightlips said:


> Alot of amateur records are made up in some shape or form. Coaches often lose fighters records and make up results. This even happened to me when I boxed.


Jonnytightlips 800-0 800 KO's


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## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

Luf said:


> Why didn't Joe go for the olympics?


Team GB chose Robin Reid for the 1992 games instead & he won bronze (at lightmiddleweight).

In his book Joe talks about how he should've gone instead, but the anger he felt over the rejection fuelled his professional career & made him a better fighter.

Incidentally, Joe won senior ABA titles at 3 weights. He was the first to do it & I don't think anyone else has done it since.


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

DrMo said:


> Team GB chose Robin Reid for the 1992 games instead & he won bronze (at lightmiddleweight).
> 
> In his book Joe talks about how he should've gone instead, but the anger he felt over the rejection fuelled his professional career & made him a better fighter.
> 
> Incidentally, Joe won senior ABA titles at 3 weights. He was the first to do it & I don't think anyone else has done it since.


:good

Cheers for the info mate


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

Luf said:


> Why didn't Joe go for the olympics?


I think he said that because he couldn't get down to WW (where he was Welsh champ) and hadn't fought at LMW/MW, he couldn't go to the GB trials or something. The Welsh authorities said that they didn't pick him because of his unavailability for senior events for the Wales team, supposedly due to injuries


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## Rasputin (May 17, 2013)

Calzaghe was 110-10 in the amateurs and five of those loses came within his first 15 fights. The last time he lost a fight was in 1990 at the European Junior Championships when aged 18 and it was very controversial. The Romanian who beat him subsequently went on to win the gold (he also won a silver at the World Junior Championships) and had Calzaghe been awarded the decision and gone onto medal he would've automatically booked himself a place in the next Olympic Games. That was down at welterweight. 

He also lost a razor close decision earlier on that year in the ABA welterweight finals to a guy named Michael Smyth. Smyth was two years older than Joe and bull-strong and muscular, whereas Calzaghe was a skinny little underdeveloped teen who was still a good couple of years from reaching physical maturity and developing his man strength. 

He never lost a fight as a senior (he won his last 53 amateur fights) and was much, much stronger after he'd filled out and moved up in weight to light-middle and then middle. He stopped all but one of his opponents on route to winning his second and third ABA titles at those weights, and only one the opponents he stopped made it out of the second round (future WBC super-middleweight champion Glen Catley). In fact, he won all of his fights convincingly on route to winning three consecutive ABA titles at different weights, a feat that had only been accomplished once before in over a century. He was a highly decorated junior champion too, winning six schoolboy ABA titles and a slew of other tournaments too. He was never dropped or stopped in any of his loses either and no one ever beat him convincingly.


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## Vino Veritas (May 17, 2013)

Who is supposed to have beaten Robinson as an amateur? I was always under the impression Robinson's first loss came at the hands of LaMotta.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Wasn't Reid's dad on the Olympic selection committee? There was something dodgy about the situation but I can't quite remember the details at the moment. I remember Calzaghe talking about it on his DVD.


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## 1971791 (Jul 14, 2012)

TFG said:


> Wasn't Reid's dad on the Olympic selection committee? There was something dodgy about the situation but I can't quite remember the details at the moment. I remember Calzaghe talking about it on his DVD.


I think that it was something to do with injuries or not being able to participate in some of the events preceding the Olympics. So then they chose Reid and the Calzaghe family were quite angry with the decision, asking for a box-off or something for the final place, which was duly rejected.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Rasputin said:


> Calzaghe was 110-10 in the amateurs and five of those loses came within his first 15 fights. The last time he lost a fight was in 1990 at the European Junior Championships when aged 18 and it was very controversial. The Romanian who beat him subsequently went on to win the gold (he also won a silver at the World Junior Championships) and had Calzaghe been awarded the decision and gone onto medal he would've automatically booked himself a place in the next Olympic Games. That was down at welterweight.
> 
> He also lost a razor close decision earlier on that year in the ABA welterweight finals to a guy named Michael Smyth. Smyth was two years older than Joe and bull-strong and muscular, whereas Calzaghe was a skinny little underdeveloped teen who was still a good couple of years from reaching physical maturity and developing his man strength.
> 
> He never lost a fight as a senior (he won his last 53 amateur fights) and was much, much stronger after he'd filled out and moved up in weight to light-middle and then middle. He stopped all but one of his opponents on route to winning his second and third ABA titles at those weights, and only one the opponents he stopped made it out of the second round (future WBC super-middleweight champion Glen Catley). In fact, he won all of his fights convincingly on route to winning three consecutive ABA titles at different weights, a feat that had only been accomplished once before in over a century. He was a highly decorated junior champion too, winning six schoolboy ABA titles and a slew of other tournaments too. He was never dropped or stopped in any of his loses either and no one ever beat him convincingly.


People say that Calzaghe was a good amateur but winning ABA titles isn't a spectacular thing to do, it's still regional. Froch's bronze at the world champs gives him a far more distinguished amateur career than Calzaghe's.


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## jonnytightlips (Jun 14, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> People say that Calzaghe was a good amateur but winning ABA titles isn't a spectacular thing to do, it's still regional. Froch's bronze at the world champs gives him a far more distinguished amateur career than Calzaghe's.


How many national titles do you have mate.


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Vino Veritas said:


> Who is supposed to have beaten Robinson as an amateur? I was always under the impression Robinson's first loss came at the hands of LaMotta.


Billy Graham supposedly.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

jonnytightlips said:


> How many national titles do you have mate.


You're an intellectual giant aren't you?


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## jonnytightlips (Jun 14, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> You're an intellectual giant aren't you?


Indeed I am.


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## Rasputin (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> People say that Calzaghe was a good amateur but winning ABA titles isn't a spectacular thing to do, it's still regional.


Er. people who actually know what they're talking about say that, yes. Firstly, Calzaghe did win a few international tournaments as teen. Secondly, he was a brilliant junior too. He'd won every domestic honour since he was 11 right up until he was 18, hoovering up trophies and medals like they were bits of candy year in, year out. He won multiple junior ABA titles (six I believe), Welsh titles, numerous Great Britain schoolboy titles and then he won three consecutive ABA titles at different weights when he moved up to the seniors too. It actually would've been four ABA titles had not been on the wrong end of a razor-close SD to Michael Smyth in the 1990 ABA welterweight final. And like I said only one fighter in over a century had ever won three consecutive ABA titles at different weights before.

He won the ABA welterweight title in 1991, the following year he moved up to light-middle and won the ABA title up there, and then the year after that he moved up to middle and won that one too, and he won ALL of his bouts in those championships convincingly, and he stopped all but one of his opponents on route to winning his second and third titles up at light-middle and middle respectively, which as I'm no doubt sure you're aware, seeing as I know you like your amateur boxing and all, is an impressive feat when you factor in that winning by KO or stoppage is a far less common occurrence in the amateurs than it is in the professional ranks. He stopped three of his four opponents on route to winning his middleweight ABA title in the first round, and only one of his four stoppage victims down at light-middle made it out of the second. Some of those guys he stopped were very good quality fighters too, future WBC, WBO world champions and future British, Commonwealth and European champs too. It wasn't just the fact he won all those ABA titles, it was also the manner and ease he did so that makes it even more impressive.

He never lost a fight as a senior, do you have any idea how many British greats, high level world class fighters and world champions, European etc. lost to domestic opposition in the senior ranks and the ABAs, let alone greats from other parts of the world who incurred loses against their domestic opposition in the senior ranks? Nigel Benn lost in the ABAs. David Haye was knocked out in the ABA semi-finals. Robin Reid, Carl Froch, Colin McMillian, Henry Akinwande to name but a mere few all lost in the ABAs too, and that's just off the top off my head - Christ knows how many other British greats or elite level pros did too. Now some of those fighters I've listed also won ABA titles too, Froch won two (at the same weight) but they also they also lost in those championships and were all involved in really tight hard fought affairs, whereas Calzaghe beat all his opponents convincingly, stopping all but one of his opponents during his second and third championships despite it being the first year he was fighting in those divisions.



> Froch's bronze at the world champs gives him a far more distinguished amateur career than Calzaghe's.


Pretty hard for Calzaghe to emulate that feat considering he'd been robbed blind (against the fighter who subsequently went on to win the gold medal) in the European Junior Championships, a tournament where he would've been guaranteed a spot in the next Olympics if he'd just won a bronze.

And how the hell is he supposed to win a medal in the Olympics if the selection committee for the Welsh Amateur Boxing Association picked someone else to go instead of him, someone who literally wasn't a fraction as talented or decorated as he was (Matthew Turner) and who had zero chance of bringing back a medal? lol.

Calzaghe also suffered from major problems with his hands in the amateurs as well as the pros too - he was told by specialist when he was 14 that he'd never box again (he had to stop boxing for a whole a year at one point) - and consequently he had to pull out of quite a few amateur tournaments due to being injured, which rubbed some of the chaps on the selection committee for the Welsh ABAs up the wrong way (his flashy style and penchant for showboating on occasion had already gotten him into their bad books) and subsequently they decided to fuck him over and send Turner instead. Turner turned pro by the way and finished with an overall record of 3-2, both of those loses coming by stoppage, the last of which to a guy Calzaghe had easily beaten and left covered in his own blood in the 1990 ABA semi-finals.

Do you not think Calzaghe, who was much more naturally talented than both Reid and Froch, a far better boxer, and whose style was clearly heavily suited to the amateur game, wouldn't have also beaten the opponents they beat on route to winning their bronze medals at the Olympics and World Amateur Championships? With the exception of a past it Robin Reid (who the absolutely worst injury ravage, fucked left handed flat as a pancake due to only doing 14 rounds of sparring version of Joe beat a prime version of) Calzaghe beat all the common opponents he shared with both Froch and Reid much easier and in more impressive fashion. He also beat numerous fighters in the amateurs and pros who beat them too. World Amateur Bronze Medalist Carl Froch was knocked out in 4 rounds by Peter Manfredo in the amateurs. lol. Calzaghe would've come back with at least a bronze in both those championships had he fought in their places. Personally I would've STRONGLY fancied him to do even better than that.

These are the opponents Reid fought in the Barcelona Olympics:

Defeated Marcus Thomas (Barbados) KO 1
Defeated Leonidas Maleckis (Lithuania) points
Defeated Ole Klemetsen (Norway) points
Lost to Orhan Delibas (Netherlands) points

And here's Froch's

Defeated Vugar Alekperov (Azerbaijan) 21-12
Defeated Antonios Giannoulas (Greece) 27-14
Defeated Ladislav Kutil (Czech Republic) 28-14
Lost to Andrey Gogolev (Russia) 16-28

Which ones would you pick to beat Joe?


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Rasputin said:


> Er. people who actually know what they're talking about say that, yes. Firstly, Calzaghe did win a few international tournaments as teen. Secondly, he was a brilliant junior too. He'd won every domestic honour since he was 11 right up until he was 18, hoovering up trophies and medals like they were bits of candy year in, year out. He won multiple junior ABA titles (six I believe), Welsh titles, numerous Great Britain schoolboy titles and then he won three consecutive ABA titles at different weights when he moved up to the seniors too. It actually would've been four ABA titles had not been on the wrong end of a razor-close SD to Michael Smyth in the 1990 ABA welterweight final. And like I said only one fighter in over a century had ever won three consecutive ABA titles at different weights before.
> 
> He won the ABA welterweight title in 1991, the following year he moved up to light-middle and won the ABA title up there, and then the year after that he moved up to middle and won that one too, and he won ALL of his bouts in those championships convincingly, and he stopped all but one of his opponents on route to winning his second and third titles up at light-middle and middle respectively, which as I'm no doubt sure you're aware, seeing as I know you like your amateur boxing and all, is an impressive feat when you factor in that winning by KO or stoppage is a far less common occurrence in the amateurs than it is in the professional ranks. He stopped three of his four opponents on route to winning his middleweight ABA title in the first round, and only one of his four stoppage victims down at light-middle made it out of the second. Some of those guys he stopped were very good quality fighters too, future WBC, WBO world champions and future British, Commonwealth and European champs too. It wasn't just the fact he won all those ABA titles, it was also the manner and ease he did so that makes it even more impressive.
> 
> ...


Well many think Reid beat Calazaghe in the pros, and I think Froch would've beaten him as well.
You can speculate all you like because Calzaghe was never a world class amateur, he stayed in his backyard as he did for the majority of his pro career. You can't be considered even a good amateur if you achieved exactly zero on the world stage. You talk about domestic competition in the amateurs, that's relevant if you're from Cuba or the Ukraine but not with Calzaghe's opposition. It's actually quite ridiculous to believe that Calzaghe who had never fought anybody on the world stage would just go on and medal at the olympics. Stoppages in the amateurs at the time were because of the mercy rule (15 or 20 points ahead) so don't act like Calzaghe was a murderous puncher.
And I guess you've seen the fight where Preda was given a gift against Calzaghe at the junior Europeans? Calzaghe achieved precisely zero in the amateurs, he was not world class.


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

i heard that froch had never been down until Taylor.

A lot of what I am reading backs up my supposition that if you compete regularly on the world stage you will lose fights here and there and sometimes to guys who leave your weight class and never fight you again.

Benvenuti had done amazingly well, but you never hear him considered a great amateur. Charles and Robinson did really well but again never got the major tourneys. Lomachenko is a great amateur and beat everyone he fought which is amazing.

Savon, Rigo, Stevenson, Papp. Those guys might be the best amateurs as well but seemingly none of them did what Loma and Benvenuti were able to do.


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## Rasputin (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Well many think Reid beat Calazaghe in the pros





> Well many think Reid beat Calazaghe in the pros


And many, many more think Calzaghe won, and rightly so. And most of those who think Reid won are haters. These are the same cunts who claimed Hopkins was shot to shit after Calzaghe beat him. That Lacy is the worst fighter to ever lace up a pair of gloves. One of the worst versions of Calzaghe to ever step foot into a ring won a close but clear decision over a prime Reid.

Calzaghe was utterly riddled with injuries throughout that whole period of his career (early 1998-mid 2000) and it greatly affected him during training and preparation for fights. He couldn't even spar for at least two of them during that time, one of which was the fight prior to facing Reid whom he was only able to do 14 rounds for due having to having had to undergo surgery on his wrist and then fucking up his elbow during training for their fight, hence why he'd been out of action for ten months and the fight had to be rescheduled to a later date. He also badly damaged his left hand in the 5th round and it had a drastic reduction on the amount of power shots he was able to throw with it. And if you'd actually taken the time to watch the fight you'd also know that Reid fought an incredibly dirty fight and he should've at the very least had multiple points deducted from his score for his flagrant and excessive fouling.

I can provide plenty of proof to back up everything I've said here if you want? I can assure you it won't end well for you though. Calzaghe was in a completely different league to Reid, Reid just got hella lucky he was in there with an flat as fuck, injury ravaged awful Joe.



> I think Froch would've beaten him as well.


Well you're even more stupid than you appear to be then. lol



> You can speculate all you like because Calzaghe was never a world class amateur, he stayed in his backyard as he did for the majority of his pro career.


He was an exceptionally naturally talented fighter with great physical gifts and fought with a style that was both tailor-made for the amateurs and extremely difficult to beat, even when way below par or injured. I've already explained to you what he achieved and how dominant he was in UK and why he didn't go to the Olympics and I'm not going to keep repeating myself over and over again. I'm a huge amateur boxing fan, and a much bigger one of the international scene than the domestic one. Trust me I know my shit when it comes to amateur boxing.

Did he stay he stay in his backyard when he won a tournament over in Canada? When he fought over in Italy? Budapest etc? lol



> You can't be considered even a good amateur if you achieved exactly zero on the world stage.


Christ you're thick. He went unbeaten for his last 53 fights in the amateurs, looking sensational in the process and breaking age old records, beating two future world champions and one highly talented British, Commonwealth and European one who was more talented than both the the world champions he beat. And after losing five of his first 15 fights he only ever lost five more in his entire life both amateur and pro, all of which occurred while he was still in the juniors, and at least two of which were highly controversial. No one EVER beat him comprehensively.

He beat one of the stars of the Italian national team silly in an amateur bout over on Italy, a guy called Paolo DiMasso who was a multiple national champion and a bronze medalist in the world Junior Championships. Calzaghe made him look like a complete novice in front of his home crowd.

Adrian Opreda won a silver medal in the World Juniors in addition to winning gold in the European Juniors too. Have I seen his fight against Joe? Er, no. But I was an avid reader of boxing magazines for eons and I remember reading reports which stated it was a bad robbery. The tournament was in Eastern Europe (Budapest), with Eastern European judges and referees and as is so often the case in amateur boxing location plays a big factor in deciding winners and losers and how bouts are scored. Calzaghe had already whooped the home favourite in an earlier bout too, stopping him in two rounds and wowing the locals with his performance in the process, and he was being tipped to win the whole thing by some of those witnessed it.



> You talk about domestic competition in the amateurs, that's relevant if you're from Cuba or the Ukraine but not with Calzaghe's opposition.


You carrying on like GB is some backward shithole where the competition is awful. lol. We might not be up there with the likes of Cuba and the Russians but we're still a pretty strong boxing nation. And if the competition is so poor over here then why the fuck did Olympic bronze medalist Robin Reid, World amateur silver and bronze medalists David Haye and Carl Froch and future pro greats like Nigel Benn to name but a FEW all lose in the ABAs? They were world class amateurs right? lol


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## Rasputin (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Stoppages in the amateurs at the time were because of the mercy rule (15 or 20 points ahead) so don't act like Calzaghe was a murderous puncher.


Best to keep your mouth switched to off if you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. And I never said he was a murderous puncher you moron, although he clearly hit much harder back then and during his early pro career before his hands gave out on him. Stoppages in the amateurs are much, much rarer than they are in the pros and for him to stop all but one of his opponents in consecutive championships, is extremely impressive indeed, and even more so considering it was his first season fighting at those weights. And none of his fights in those championships were stopped on the mercy rule. I've seen at least 15-20 of his amateur fights and none of them were mercy stoppages. Only two of his fights in his second and third ABA went past the second round, he stopped three of four of his opponents on route to winning his middleweight title in the first round. No matter what way you want to swing it that's very impressive, even if they were stopped on the outscored rule, which they weren't.



> It's actually quite ridiculous to believe that Calzaghe who had never fought anybody on the world stage would just go on and medal at the olympics.


No it's not remotely ridiculous at all. In fact, it's beyond ludicrous to think he couldn't have. He couldn't have been anymore dominant on route to winning his second and third ABA titles, he breezed through those championships and beat some very good fighters, future world, European, British and Commonwealth champions no less and he stopped all of them, most of which with contemptuous ease.

Lets take a look at some of the fighters Joe beat that had success in the ams.

Robin Reid was an Olympic bronze medalist and a world junior silver medalist too.

The worst injury ravaged version of Joe who'd only sparred 14 rounds in over a year beat him.

Richie Woodhall was an Olympic bronze medalist, and the only obstacle that stood in front of him from winning a silver came in the shape of Roy Jones Jr.

Calzaghe stopped him in 10.

Jeff Lacy was a decorated amateur too. He won over 200 fights and was the US national champion, a silver medalist at the Junior Olympics, and he represented the USA at the Olympics as well. The only thing that preventing him from contesting the bronze medal position came in form of the reigning gold medalist, the excellent Russian Gaidarbek Gaidarbekov, who subsequently went on to win the silver, losing on controversial razor-tight 17-15 decision to the excellent Cuban Jorge Guttierez in a fight that could've easily gone the other way. Lacy beat a lot good fighters in the amateurs who went on to have good success in the professional ranks too, but I guess his style was better suited to the amateur code than Joe's was right.

Calzaghe won every single second of every single round against Lacy.

Mikkel Kessler won the European Junior championships.

Calzaghe beat him comfortably, losing maybe three rounds max.

Mario Veit was a German national champion and was a winner and a runner up in international tournaments that elite level amateurs participated in. He also beat Markus Beyer five times in too, that's the same Beyer who was an elite amateur that won 235 fights and a bronze at the World Amateur Championships, European gold, European silver, a silver at the World Junior Championships and went on to become a three time WBC super-middle champion.

Calzaghe won every round on route to stopping him twice.

Sakio Bika was good enough to qualify for the Olympics and represent his country.

Calzaghe won a wide UD.

Ditto for Kabary Salem.

Calzaghe won a wide UD.

Ditto for Evans Ashira.

Calzaghe won every second of every round despite the fact he was fighting one-handed for the last eight rounds due to suffering a badly broken hand in the fourth round.

Ditto for Stephen Wilson.

Calzaghe won every round.

Ditto for Miguel Gimenez who also won a silver at the 1991 Pan American games in Havana, losing in the final to the Olympic and world amateur champion, the Cuban Juan Carlos Lemus.

Calzaghe won every second of every round again.

Omar Sheika was the US national champion.

Calzaghe won every round and stopped him in five.

Byron Mitchell was a national Golden Gloves champion.

Calzaghe stopped him in two.

Mger Mkrtchyan won a bronze at the World Junior Championships.

Calzaghe won every round and stopped him in 7.

Adrian Opreda won a gold at the European Juniors and a Silver at the World Juniors.

Calzaghe lost a very controversial decision to him over in Eastern Europe.

Paolo DiMasso was a multiple national champion and a bronze medalist in the world Junior Championships.

Calzaghe made him look like a complete novice in front of his home crowd.

Ole Klemetsen, who Calzaghe's reputed to have stopped in a round in the ams, won bronze medals at the World Amateur Championships and European Championships.

Calzaghe beat another fighter in the amateurs that won bronze at the World Amateur Championships too (I can't recall his name at the moment)

Jason Matthews was a double ABA champion.

Calzaghe TKO'd him in one.

David Starie was a double ABA champ too.

Calzaghe won a comfortable decision over him.

Funny how he was able to beat all those fighters who had success in the ams (totally outclassing most of them, even when fighting injured which he did in at least a good half a dozen of them), many of whom medalled in major championships, but he wouldn't have been able to get on the podium himself despite being far more naturally talented than all of them and having a style that was absolutely tailor-made for the amateurs. lol


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Rasputin said:


> Best to keep your mouth switched to off if you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. And I never said he was a murderous puncher you moron, although he clearly hit much harder back then and during his early pro career before his hands gave out on him. Stoppages in the amateurs are much, much rarer than they are in the pros and for him to stop all but one of his opponents in consecutive championships, is extremely impressive indeed, and even more so considering it was his first season fighting at those weights. And none of his fights in those championships were stopped on the mercy rule. I've seen at least 15-20 of his amateur fights and none of them were mercy stoppages. Only two of his fights in his second and third ABA went past the second round, he stopped three of four of his opponents on route to winning his middleweight title in the first round. No matter what way you want to swing it that's very impressive, even if they were stopped on the outscored rule, which they weren't.
> 
> No it's not remotely ridiculous at all. In fact, it's beyond ludicrous to think he couldn't have. He couldn't have been anymore dominant on route to winning his second and third ABA titles, he breezed through those championships and beat some very good fighters, future world, European, British and Commonwealth champions no less and he stopped all of them, most of which with contemptuous ease.
> 
> ...


:lol: You're passionately retarded about Calzaghe aren't you? I haven't even bothered to read those two walls of text, my point that Calzaghe wasn't even close to being a world class amateur remains. It's a fact so I don't know why you're getting your knickers in a knot. He never won a single thing on the world stage, regardless if you think he could've or not. Andre Ward also spent the last years of his amateur career going undefeated as well, the difference is that he won an OLYMPIC GOLD. Calzaghe won some ABA's? :rolleyes


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

:think


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Guy in my avi is 85-0

Ezzard charles as 40-0


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Vysotsky said:


> Remember Courage Tshabalala who fought Maskaev
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courage_Tshabalala
> 
> "Tshabalala had a reported amateur boxing record of 72-1 with 72 knockouts. He lost his first amateur match by decision, and won all amateur bouts from then on by first round knockout."


Wow what a strange character. Chin must've been made of the most finest china.


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Did Floyd ever get stopped in the AMS?


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## Masters (May 20, 2013)

Povetkin beat every guy he faced in the ams. Lost a few but avenged them all.


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## Masters (May 20, 2013)

Rasputin was Serge. The biggest Calzaghe mentalist around. Claimed Joe was "old school" cos he used eat kebabs on the weekend while active.


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Never knew that about povetkin :think


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Gunner said:


> I highly doubt Lomanchenko's record btw. And Ward has been beaten at least twice, that I personally know of.


If someone else had beaten him they would have said by now. Why wouldn't they?


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Loma's record seems legit.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

JamieC said:


> If someone else had beaten him they would have said by now. Why wouldn't they?


Exactly. If they beat Lomachenko at any stage they'd likely be an exceptional talent themselves, and would be in a position to say "hold the fuck up". That 396-1 record has been repeated too many times for it not to be true. We know for sure since he's been on the world stage he's only had the one loss. His reaction to that loss tells me he'd never experienced that before. All the video I've seen before then just show a young Vasyl showboating and going RJJ on his opponents, he has always clearly been a cut above his boxing peers.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Hmm....so it's said that Vasyl is 396-1.

BUT listen from 58 seconds to 1:20 on this video:






It seems he doesn't really know what his record is..and that he's just saying that someone on the internet said he has had 300 fights.
I would have thought it would be a higher number because of his involvement in the amateurs till the age of 24, and his 2 Olympic Golds.


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## Zacker (Jun 6, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Wouldn't surprise me.
> 
> But then again Loma, Rigo, Curry etc are listed as 400+ fights and I highly dispute those as well. I think a lot of amateur records are bullshit.


Rigo's amateur record was at one time listed at around 5-7 (or so) losses. IIRC, a guy who is a trainer on a national team asked him about those losses and Rigo thought about it and said he could remember twelve. This was before he got blacklisted on Cuba but he did't suffer any more losses after that. I wonder if that's where the "wikipedia" twelve losses come from.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

I think it's very hard to verify amateur records.. Most I've heard are based off what the fighter/coach says, which of course doesn't mean it's true.


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Loma seems to have the best record in am history so far


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Jorge Jose Fernandez - the forgotten underrated welterweight who fought Griffith, Monzon (dropped him), LF Thompson, Logart etc
apparently was undefeated as an amateur:

42-0.


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## Mugshot (Jun 11, 2013)

So these amateur records are even from when they were really young (10 >)?


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## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

LittleRed said:


> Billy Graham supposedly.


And to think, all those years later he would be training Ricky Hatton.


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Any more certainty on loma's alleged record?


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## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

infini_IV said:


> lewis never beat mccall, yes he won the fight but never beat the man


Yes, he did.


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## infini_IV (Jun 6, 2013)

Chacal said:


> Yes, he did.


I seam to remember Mccall in the midst of drug addition and refusing to fight, he wasnt beat. Sure lewis was awarded the victory but he never beat Mccall


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## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

to make matters worse, some handlers add even sparring and exhibitions to the count.


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## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

infini_IV said:


> I seam to remember Mccall in the midst of drug addition and refusing to fight, he wasnt beat. Sure lewis was awarded the victory but he never beat Mccall


If he has a victory over him, he beat him.


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## infini_IV (Jun 6, 2013)

Chacal said:


> If he has a victory over him, he beat him.


Even by your analogy they are still 1 a piece with mccalls win by 1 punch KTFO. only Lewis fans think winning a rematch negates the brutal KO loss


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## Danny (May 31, 2012)

Wow, @Dealt_with got absolutely raped by logic in this thread. He got TKO6'd AND lost the event.
@Rasputin - Calzaghe stopped Klemetsen in 1 at a Four Nations meet in 1989. Three years later and Robin Reid labours to a decision over him in the Olympic quarter-finals. But obviously Calzaghe was never of that calibre and obviously wouldn't have medalled...

I would really like to verify if Calzaghe indeed stopped Byrd in the amateurs. There's the rumour that he stopped him with a few seconds left at a Italy vs USA meet @ 75kg in 1992, in Byrd's last amateur fight before turning over I believe. I've seen a source for Byrd's amateur record and although obviously incomplete, there's a lot of fights listed on there and this RSC3 loss to JC is one of them, apparently in December 1992.

Byrd himself has denied it, however when doing so he said 'it's not true, he wasn't even around when I was an amateur' which is obviously total bullshit, so who knows if he's lying or not about the result?


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

infini_IV said:


> Even by your analogy they are still 1 a piece with mccalls win by 1 punch KTFO. only Lewis fans think winning a rematch negates the brutal KO loss


1- It wasn't a 'brutal ko' loss. Lewis only had one of those.. Mccall was very debatable and you know it you racist fucking piece of retard.

2-It is actually VERY impressive Lewis avenged all his defeats. It is such an impressive feat it might very well erase a lot of the negativity of him losing.The reason being no other modern day ATG(with the exception of Floyd who never lost) have avenged all his defeats.

Every single modern day ATG have had defeats he was unable to avenge,outside of Lennox Lewis.

Lewis is the ONLY ATG HW of the modern era to have defeated every man he's ever faced.

Wlad couldn't do this because he would have just gotten KTFO again.

Wlad is a bitch and Vitali is Lennox's bitch. You gotta deal with this KuKlux Boy.


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## Kush (May 24, 2013)

Lopez never lost, ever.


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## Kush (May 24, 2013)

Reuben Guerrero is also 30-0


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Alex Saucedo in 2011 told Elie Seckbach he has over 150 *wins* as an amateur. Saucedo was 16/17 at the time of the interview. Lomachenko had around 90 fights after the age of 15/16 AND Lomachenko said that he fought far less frequently as he did when he was a young kid. No professional fighter doubts records with 400 fights :conf but some of you guys do.

By the time Austin Trout was 18 he had 200 amateur fights. 160 something wins, 40 something losses.


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## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

jonnytightlips said:


> Alot of amateur records are made up in some shape or form. Coaches often lose fighters records and make up results. This even happened to me when I boxed.


So you're what, 500-0 now?


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## Hook! (Jun 8, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> Exactly. If they beat Lomachenko at any stage they'd likely be an exceptional talent themselves, and would be in a position to say "hold the fuck up". That 396-1 record has been repeated too many times for it not to be true. We know for sure since he's been on the world stage he's only had the one loss. His reaction to that loss tells me he'd never experienced that before. All the video I've seen before then just show a young Vasyl showboating and going RJJ on his opponents, he has always clearly been a cut above his boxing peers.


how did he react to the loss?


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

@Rasputin you should post more.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Also Loma's record is sus for me. I saw him in Olympics and he looked great and all but his record is awfully specific and given how easily records get lost and made up particularly in that part of the world I think it's bullshit. GGG amateur record was also amazing and it turned out to be a load of shit.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Hook! said:


> how did he react to the loss?


He was crying. When he lost his second bout (the result was overturned later) he was laughing and nonchalant about it.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Also Loma's record is sus for me. I saw him in Olympics and he looked great and all but his record is awfully specific and given how easily records get lost and made up particularly in that part of the world I think it's bullshit. GGG amateur record was also amazing and it turned out to be a load of shit.


He says he's only lost once and he believes he really won that bout. I don't understand why he would have a reason to lie, he has every accomplishment you can have in the amateurs. With Rigo and Ward we know when they lost bouts many years ago, with Lomachenko the only loss anybody has heard of is the 1 loss. Lomachenko was even more dominant when he was younger than in recent years, And in recent years he's been fighting world class competition all the time and has beaten everybody.


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## jonnytightlips (Jun 14, 2012)

Mr. Brain said:


> So you're what, 500-0 now?


501-0 mate. There is no blueprint.


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## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

jonnytightlips said:


> 501-0 mate. There is no blueprint.


U'r a beast.


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## Rasputin (May 17, 2013)

Danny said:


> Wow, @Dealt_with got absolutely raped by logic in this thread. He got TKO6'd AND lost the event.
> @Rasputin - Calzaghe stopped Klemetsen in 1 at a Four Nations meet in 1989. Three years later and Robin Reid labours to a decision over him in the Olympic quarter-finals. But obviously Calzaghe was never of that calibre and obviously wouldn't have medalled...


I know, crazy isn't it? Calzaghe would've been coming back with a silver at the very least in those Olympics and a gold in the World Championships Froch fought in IMO.

Klemetsen had actually beaten Reid 24:9 at the European Championships the year prior to losing to him in Barcelona. Stephen Wilson also lost to Sven Ottke (who went on to win the gold) in the quarter finals of those championships too. I did a little more research and Wilson, who Calzaghe won every second of every round against and stopped in 8, (and who'd only lost once prior to Calzaghe - on a cut eye) won a silver medal at the 1991 World Junior Championships in Bayamon, Puerto Rico - the same year Reid won his silver medal in the division below (71kg).

And I think Mark Delaney was a double Irish national champion too and Mario Veit won an international tournament where he beat the guy who'd beaten Juan Carlos Lemus the Cuban who won gold in Calzaghe's division at the Barcelona Olympics and the World Amateur Championships the year prior to that.



> I would really like to verify if Calzaghe indeed stopped Byrd in the amateurs. There's the rumour that he stopped him with a few seconds left at a Italy vs USA meet @ 75kg in 1992, in Byrd's last amateur fight before turning over I believe. I've seen a source for Byrd's amateur record and although obviously incomplete, there's a lot of fights listed on there and this RSC3 loss to JC is one of them, apparently in December 1992.
> 
> Byrd himself has denied it, however when doing so he said 'it's not true, he wasn't even around when I was an amateur' which is obviously total bullshit, so who knows if he's lying or not about the result?


I really don't know if there's any truth to that to be honest. I've heard people say Calzaghe mentions it in his autobiography, but I don't remember seeing that in there at all and I have a pretty good memory. I've also seen the result listed though. I heard Byrd denied it happened, but then again, like you say, that's no guarantee it didn't. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. Who knows? But I'm certainly not going to get into an argument with anyone about it though.


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## Rasputin (May 17, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> @Rasputin you should post more.


Thanks.:good:


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Supposedly Azabache Martinez's amateur record is 70-0.


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## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

Lav Bogbrush was 260-4 and technically had a win over everyone that beat him. What's scary is that's with having a very, very professional style of fighting at that.


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Boxed Ears said:


> Lav Bogbrush was 260-4 and technically had a win over everyone that beat him. What's scary is that's with having a very, very professional style of fighting at that.


:lol:


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## Duo (Jun 14, 2012)

Luf said:


> I don't understand how legends with quality records don't make the Olympics like Charles, Robinson and Benvenuti x


History's greatest, "What if?" concerning Olympic participation may well have to do with Burley. In Berlin, American flyweight Lou Laurie took bronze and the Val Barker Cup, while bantamweight Jack Wilson took silver, and that was it for USA Boxing in 1936.

At WW, American Chester Rutecki was eliminated in the second round by Finland's Sten Stuvio, who won the Gold by defeating Germany's Michael Murach in the final. Considering how Jesse Owens set himself for life by what he did in track and field, one is given to wonder how the 19 year old Burley's own life might have been transformed by taking home both Gold from the Nazis and the VBC award. He may well have returned home as the biggest American hero the Olympics ever produced in boxing, and he had the temperament to support the adulation. Robinson certainly demonstrated a few years later what a sterling amateur career in boxing could do for a black prospect, and Charley would have risen in the ranks with considerably more fanfare with a Gold Medal around his neck. Instead, he found himself stuck with a Communist tainted then Spanish Civil War cancelled Worker's Games.

One can only wonder...


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## Aramini (Jun 5, 2013)

Not what you are looking for since he lost as a pro, but Israel Vazquez am record is sick . 58-0 with 58 knockouts. Awesome.


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Aramini said:


> Not what you are looking for since he lost as a pro, but Israel Vazquez am record is sick . 58-0 with 58 knockouts. Awesome.


nice


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## boxing prospect (Jan 29, 2013)

Read that Roman Gonzalez was like 85-0 (80) and that Albert Pagara was 400-0...fair to say both of these are questionable.


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Not heard that about roman Gonzalez before?!?


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## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

George foreman only had 20 something fights before the olympics. He had only been boxing less than 2 years before he made it to the olympics. I dont think he has any losses in there either.



nevermind its 22-4 total, 16-4 going into the olympics. Thats insane though, going to the olympics with only 20 fights.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

I'm currently 0-0.
All have failed.


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## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

boxing prospect said:


> Read that Roman Gonzalez was like 85-0 (80) and that Albert Pagara was 400-0...fair to say both of these are questionable.


http://www.magnamedia.com/forms/Biography ROMAN GONZALEZ.pdf

This source states that "Roman reportedly had an amateur record of 74-1"

Where did you see 85-0


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## boxing prospect (Jan 29, 2013)

Ivan Drago said:


> http://www.magnamedia.com/forms/Biography ROMAN GONZALEZ.pdf
> 
> This source states that "Roman reportedly had an amateur record of 74-1"
> 
> Where did you see 85-0


Sorry was 87-0.
Teiken (http://www.teiken.com/profile/gonzalez.html) I know not the most reliable though like I said it was questionable.


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Still pretty tasty record.


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## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

I could believe any of those, it's clear how talented he is and he's backed it up in the pro's.


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Did he go olympics?


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Sugar Ramos claimed he never lost as an amateur.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Johnny Persol was 85-0.


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

The thing with amateur records is that you can't verify it. With the exception of really big televised or at least recorded amateur fights you have to believe the boxer. 

Tbh I can't imagine how anyone with an extensive amateur career that included a high number of fights at a decent level can go undefeated as an amateur you are learning, often have no idea who youa re fighting until a few hours before and some of the decisions in amateur boxing are much worse than those at the pros you have to be very matura as a fighter, very talented, have an incredible ability to adapt and last but not least a shit ton of luck to go undefeated as an amateur (with many fights).

Also boxers might even forget about some amateur fights they had and I can imagine that it's much easier to forget losses I just take amateur records witha big grain of salt but I also don't give them too much weight since we don't know the whole story about most fights I give boxers credit for good wins in the amateurs and things like that but an impressive record isn't really important


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## Slip (Jul 17, 2012)

Rasputin knows his shit 

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

So hard to verify


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## Tage_West (May 16, 2013)

Chatty said:


> T*o do that you will have to fight international from your first season. Rigo might not be as bad as he was near 30 when he turned over but Curry was 19 - there's no way he racked up 400 fights in 8 years.
> *
> He would be fighting like 10 times a month once you have taken the winter break and summer season off.
> 
> Lomas 25 and has boxed at a high level, I still don't believe he is in the 400s though, he'll probably have a mighty fine record but promoters etc love to add shit on. I'd love to see his cards.


i found the same thing with terry norris 291-4. how could somebody turn over so young (and only start boxing comp[etativly by 16) amass so many. well he used a fake license to apply for smaller bouts around the country, using his brother orlins paper copy as another name. and as they where both from texas around the same time we could make a fair assessment that the curry clan was doing the same thing.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Aramini said:


> Not what you are looking for since he lost as a pro, but Israel Vazquez am record is sick . 58-0 with 58 knockouts. Awesome.


Wow, never knew that. That's fucking amazing.


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