# Loma and his unearned title shot



## GolovkinIsScum (Dec 29, 2013)

I figured this fight would be in Macua on one of those garbage China shows but it looks like this fight will be in Texas or California. 

Anyone else think this fight is a clear violation of The Ali Act?


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Didn't he win an eliminator?


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## GolovkinIsScum (Dec 29, 2013)

Luf said:


> Didn't he win an eliminator?


I doubt it the guy he beat is ranked 94th at the weight. Gary Russell Jr was the mandatory.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

WBO International Featherweight titleholder in the pro game in just 1 fight.


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## GolovkinIsScum (Dec 29, 2013)

http://www.boxingscene.com/salido-lomachenkos-title-shot-disrespects-everyone--73174

Euros got no respect for boxing, they don't love it.


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## GolovkinIsScum (Dec 29, 2013)

Promising a title match for signing is a violation, hope it gets blocked.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> I doubt it the guy he beat is ranked 94th at the weight. Gary Russell Jr was the mandatory.


He was WBO ranked 7 fighter and was a titleholder. Gary Russell has his plate full fighting TBA's and guys who aren't even ranked in any way.

Lomachenko TKO 8 Gary Russell Jr

Lomachenko the great European.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> http://www.boxingscene.com/salido-lomachenkos-title-shot-disrespects-everyone--73174
> 
> Euros got no respect for boxing, they don't love it.


'He's so disrespectful :cry' .....
Gives him a world title shot atsch

Salido logic.


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## GolovkinIsScum (Dec 29, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> He was WBO ranked 7 fighter and was a titleholder. Gary Russell has his plate full fighting TBA's and guys who aren't even ranked in any way.
> 
> Lomachenko TKO 8 Gary Russell Jr
> 
> Lomachenko the great European.


I hope Salido beats another ***.

You'll never be white no matter how hard you try.


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## GolovkinIsScum (Dec 29, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> 'He's so disrespectful :cry' .....
> Gives him a world title shot atsch
> 
> Salido logic.


As a newer fan you don't get people died in the ring for something Golovkin and Loma try to shit on.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> I hope Salido beats another ***.
> 
> You'll never be white no matter how hard you try.


Lomachenko has a wife and kids. You'll never be a normal human being no matter how hard you try.


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## GolovkinIsScum (Dec 29, 2013)

And Michael Jackson had a wife a kids. Loma still a ***.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> Don't be mad sissy. You Jew loving Paki.







Indeed..P.S I'm not Pakistani :rofl


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## GolovkinIsScum (Dec 29, 2013)

You know J'Leon Love knocked Simon out a couple weeks ago? So congratulations your guy has that as one of his best wins.

What trash race are you? You look like a gay Amir Khan.


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## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

Damn. This must be one bored sad bastard.
_
"Since I have no friends and virtually no life, I''ll just go on a boxing forum, talk shit about race and try to get some of that attention I can't get in the real world . . . ."_ :-(

Cool story ho.


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## GolovkinIsScum (Dec 29, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> Damn. This must be one bored sad bastard.


Shut up ***


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## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> Shut up ***


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

What a cunt. Ban him please mods.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

@Lunny


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## GolovkinIsScum (Dec 29, 2013)

Luf said:


> What a cunt. Ban him please mods.


Ban your mom you racist cunt


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## GolovkinIsScum (Dec 29, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> @Lunny


Coward like Loma


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> You know J'Leon Love knocked Simon out a couple weeks ago? So congratulations your guy has that as one of his best wins.
> 
> What trash race are you? You look like a gay Amir Khan.


What's the matter pussy? Too scared to quote me now :rofl That didn't stop the great Golovkin from owning Simon in the first round. Simon got his chin weakened which made it easier for J'Leon Love. Rosado > Love. :deal


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> *Ban your mom* you racist cunt


so fucking original atsch

You're a backdated troll and your humour sucks. Now that you suck at being a troll, what is there to you :lol:

:hi:


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> Coward like Loma


Gary Russell Jr is the coward running away from world level fighters. Shit troll, no wit.

0/10


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## GolovkinIsScum (Dec 29, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> What's the matter pussy? Too scared to quote me now :rofl That didn't stop the great Golovkin from owning Simon in the first round. Simon got his chin weakened which made it easier for J'Leon Love. Rosado > Love. :deal


Ha when didn't I quote you ***? Golovkin a pussy like you but he's white like you dream.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> Shut up ***


Everyone's a *** in your eyes unless they're Gary Russell Jr.

Oneshot projecting too much again :rofl


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## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

shaunster101 said:


> Damn. This must be one bored sad bastard.
> _
> "Since I have no friends and virtually no life, I''ll just go on a boxing forum, talk shit about race and try to get some of that attention I can't get in the real world . . . ."_ :-(
> 
> Cool story ho.


This. I was legitimately cringing whilst reading it. Embarrassed for him.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> *Ha when didn't I quote you ***? *Golovkin a pussy like you but he's white like you dream.


You're clearly dumb as shit.

See you later Oneshot... :hi:


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

And yet there's still people saying 'Free Oneshot' :conf 
CHB would be a friggin toilet if so much shit from Oneshot was allowed on here.


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## From Russia (Jun 5, 2013)

Loma has better resume than Russell jr, hahahaah


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> I doubt it the guy he beat is ranked 94th at the weight. Gary Russell Jr was the mandatory.


He beat a ranked guy in an eliminator for the title. GRJ is the guy who hasn't earned anything, he was placed as the mandatory because he's been fighting stiffs since the Cretaceous period and even the WBO are getting sick of it. GRJ will get his undeserved shot at Loma if he grows some testicles.


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## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> Don't be mad sissy. You Jew loving Paki.


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## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> Ban your mom you racist cunt





GolovkinIsScum said:


> Don't be mad sissy. You Jew loving Paki.


atschatschatschatschatschatschatschatschatschatschatschatschatschatschatschatschatschatschatschatsch


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## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> You're clearly dumb as shit.
> 
> See you later Oneshot... :hi:


:deal well played. I bet he cried for days after that, calling Maidana a racist whilst no doubt simultaneously throwing racial slurs Maidanas way.
Either that or do what South-paw whatever did saying Broner won if you take away the knock downs atsch


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> And yet there's still people saying 'Free Oneshot' :conf
> CHB would be a friggin toilet if so much shit from Oneshot was allowed on here.


Trolls like FelixTrinidad and Johnstown at least offer a little bit of humour at times, Oneshot is just a bitter, sad mess. I legitimately feel sorry for him with his preoccupation on race, he's missing out on some good fighters and a great sport.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Dazl1212 said:


>


:rofl :rofl I laughed out loud when I saw a still version of that, had no idea there was a GIF and it be as funny as that. Been laughing for like a whole minute now.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Loma's amateur background is more credible than most professional fighter's pro records. He's earned the shot, but he might be moving too fast for his own god


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## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> :rofl :rofl I laughed out loud when I saw a still version of that, had no idea there was a GIF and it be as funny as that. Been laughing for like a whole minute now.


I reckon its Cumshot when he was a child :hey
My favourite is the KFC bucket hovering in the background :lol:


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Dazl1212 said:


> I reckon its Cumshot when he was a child :hey
> My favourite is the KFC bucket hovering in the background :lol:


:rofl didn't even notice it hovering :lol:


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

From Russia said:


> Loma has better resume than Russell jr, hahahaah


This...and it's so fucking sad.


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## Danny (May 31, 2012)

The fact that beating Jose Ramirez gets you a title shot is pretty indicative of how easy it is to get one in boxing these days, it's quite sad. Obviously he's getting it off the name factor too.

Still done more to earn a shot than Gary Russell Jr, however.


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## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Loma's amateur background is more credible than most professional fighter's pro records. He's earned the shot, but he might be moving too fast for his own god


I really think Loma is the real deal, but I do fear he may have underestimated having a big relentless guy walking you down for 12 rounds.


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## MyName (Jun 26, 2013)

Considering there are a million titles and you don't have to do much to get a shot I don't see why the fuss.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> As a newer fan you don't get people died in the ring for something Golovkin and Loma try to shit on.


:rofl


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Gary Russell Jr don't want to fight anybody :rofl


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

Anyways, we get people not stepping up to fight the top guys, people complain. A guy with 1 pro fight is stepping up and fighting a serious dude and people (granted, mentally imbalanced people)complain...


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## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

Eoghan said:


> Anyways, we get people not stepping up to fight the top guys, people complain. A guy with 1 pro fight is stepping up and fighting a serious dude and people (granted, mentally imbalanced people)complain...


Cumshot is a prized clown


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## ~Cellzki~ (Jun 3, 2013)

#FreeOneShot


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

Yeah he didn't earn the shot but it's a good fight and skillwise he's at the top so I don't really care


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Fuks wrong with you lol :conf


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## Still Hoopin' (Dec 29, 2013)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> You know J'Leon Love knocked Simon out a couple weeks ago? So congratulations your guy has that as one of his best wins.
> 
> What trash race are you? You look like a gay Amir Khan.


:-(


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

> *GolovkinIsScum *
> 
> Don't be mad sissy. You Jew loving Paki.


:rofl :rofl


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## Johnstown (Jun 4, 2013)

Hey Dealt, seriously man, if need someone to talk to....let me know ok.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Gary Russell Jr don't want to fight anybody :rofl


For me hes the biggest disappointment of boxing this year. He has the talent to beat anyone right now but decides not to.


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## ~Cellzki~ (Jun 3, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> For me hes the biggest disappointment of boxing this year. He has the talent to beat anyone right now but decides not to.


shit, he's been a disappointment two years in a row. he won prospect of the year in 2011 and hasn't done anything since then..


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

~Cellzki~ said:


> shit, he's been a disappointment two years in a row. he won prospect of the year in 2011 and hasn't done anything since then..


Is sort of a weird thread though. I mean usually it's about how the guys are already such and such age, have shit resumes, don't fight any threats and are milking the network and internet hype, so he goes the complete opposite direction of that and there's something else. :lol: Honestly, who gives a fuck about the title -- he's fighting Salido FFS.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Could've just fought and KOed washed up fighters and cans for a few years...


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## ~Cellzki~ (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Is sort of a weird thread though. I mean usually it's about how the guys are already such and such age, have shit resumes, don't fight any threats and are milking the network and internet hype, so he goes the complete opposite direction of that and there's something else. :lol: Honestly, who gives a fuck about the title -- he's fighting Salido FFS.


yeah, i really don't see the big deal. but i can understand from the perspective of other boxers who work their asses off for title shots. then again, some can say Salido didn't deserve another title shot after being shut out by Mikey. but if Loma wins, what does it matter? boxing is a business at the end of the day.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

~Cellzki~ said:


> yeah, i really don't see the big deal. but i can understand from the perspective of other boxers who work their asses off for title shots. then again, some can say Salido didn't deserve another title shot after being shut out by Mikey. but if Loma wins, what does it matter? boxing is a business at the end of the day.


If he wins, then he obviously belonged to begin with and it'll be great to of not wasted really a single fight before stepping up to world level.

As far as Russell, I'm glad to see people stop pointing the finger at Haymon for "protecting" him, that's horseshit and is proven by who he's put two of his 'boys' in with recently in Danny and Broner. That's Gary's inner circle who's holding him back, not his adviser/manager. Al probably doesn't even know wtf his problem is.


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## Setanta (May 24, 2013)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> http://www.boxingscene.com/salido-lomachenkos-title-shot-disrespects-everyone--73174
> 
> Euros got no respect for boxing, they don't love it.


Let me start by pointing out that you sound like pretty much of a cunt.

Your username, coupled with the fact that you speak of "respect" points to you being a _*stupid*_ cunt.

Now that we've got that cleared up, the article you linked on Boxing Scene clearly shows that Salido would rather face a lesser opponent than Lomachenko. This has more to do with his fear of losing his title than any guff about respect.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Setanta said:


> Let me start by pointing out that you sound like pretty much of a cunt.
> 
> Your username, coupled with the fact that you speak of "respect" points to you being a _*stupid*_ cunt.
> 
> Now that we've got that cleared up, the article you linked on Boxing Scene clearly shows that Salido would rather face a lesser opponent than Lomachenko. This has more to do with his fear of losing his title than any guff about respect.


Lomachenko isn't a mandatory... so why is Salido fighting him if he's so opposed to the principle? Salido is talking about Lomachenko a lot, he sounds insecure.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Lomachenko isn't a mandatory... so why is Salido fighting him if he's so opposed to the principle? Salido is talking about Lomachenko a lot, he sounds insecure.


As are you. Must be insecure yourself.

Salido is talking about him because people are asking him about him given they are fighting. Duuuuur.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Salido is right and I'm more confident he will spank that ass. He'll rough up Loma badly and I think will expose some things about Loma. Only chance Loma has is to hit and run all night long.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

GolovkinIsScum said:


> And Michael Jackson had a wife a kids. Loma still a ***.


Lulz this guy is funny. Should unban him.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Lulz this guy is funny. Should unban him.


Retard recognise retard


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Salido is right and I'm more confident he will spank that ass. He'll rough up Loma badly and I think will expose some things about Loma. Only chance Loma has is to hit and run all night long.


Permanent ban bet? Not just a month. Let's do a permanent one.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

It seems crazy to fight Salido in your second pro bout, but that just makes me think Loma's team are just that confident, they didnt have to pursue this fight if his stamina or chin weren't up to the task. This is different from Bute or Broner being exposed to a degree, there was pressure on them to take the big fights, it was coming, but with Loma, if they weren't certain he was up to it, why rush?


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

This is exactly why Loma is such a unique case in modern boxing.
I understand why fans and other fighters resent his speedy ascent but even as a fan of Salido,he can't moan when he's given him the shot rather than having it forced on him.
It's a bit of a Catch 22 but you have to admit, fighting Salido for the title in his second pro fight shows that this kid has balls.
You can make a good argument for and against this fight,but it's on so that's that.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

I have had a problem with loma getting a title shot. It looks bad for legitimacy in boxing. Having said that its a first ever achievement i want to see it happen


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> This is exactly why Loma is such a unique case in modern boxing.
> I understand why fans and other fighters resent his speedy ascent but even as a fan of Salido,he can't moan when he's given him the shot rather than having it forced on him.
> It's a bit of a Catch 22 but you have to admit, fighting Salido for the title in his second pro fight shows that this kid has balls.
> You can make a good argument for and against this fight,but it's on so that's that.


It's a great thing and could generate some real excitement in the near future. He's completely leaping over the 'pro transition' phase and going right into the thick of things. There won't be any waiting for months and years on end, no discussion over "hype job", no discussion over "When's he going to step up?" no discussion over "Who has he beat?" ... He's flipping the middle finger to forum cunts and going for the jugular. Of course, he doesn't give a shit less about anybody on a forum :lol: It's being done indirectly though.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> It's a great thing and could generate some real excitement in the near future. He's completely leaping over the 'pro transition' phase and going right into the thick of things. *There won't be any waiting for months and years on end, no discussion over "hype job", no discussion over "When's he going to step up?" no discussion over "Who has he beat?"* ... He's flipping the middle finger to forum cunts and going for the jugular. Of course, he doesn't give a shit less about anybody on a forum :lol: It's being done indirectly though.


According to the lot in here, he beat up all those 'champs' in the WSB doe.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> According to the lot in here, he beat up all those 'champs' in the WSB doe.


What lot, Gaul and Dealt_with?

I'm just recalling all the bullshit I read from people about Rigondeaux being a glass jawed fraud, how he hadn't beat anybody, didn't deserve the Donaire fight, was going to get crushed when they fought, etc etc This went on for like a year or so and Then what happened? People shut the fuck up, quick fast. :deal Lomachenko isn't even giving people the time for that to marinate, it's more No, you're going to shut your fucking mouth right now and recognize. :yep And if he doesn't... Then that's a lot of time and speculation saved either way.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Everything else in this sport moves at a snail's pace, this is a very welcome change and something different for once.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> What lot, Gaul and Dealt_with?


I still think they're the same people.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> What lot, Gaul and Dealt_with?
> 
> I'm just recalling all the bullshit I read from people about Rigondeaux being a glass jawed fraud, how he hadn't beat anybody, didn't deserve the Donaire fight, was going to get crushed when they fought, etc etc This went on for like a year or so and Then what happened? People shut the fuck up, quick fast. :deal Lomachenko isn't even giving people the time for that to marinate, it's more No, you're going to shut your fucking mouth right now and recognize. :yep And if he doesn't... Then that's a lot of time and speculation saved either way.


Actually people were clowning on Donaire prior because he quite obviously wanted nothing to do with rigo until TR were backed into a corner and had to make the fight in order to save face. Odds were almost even for that fight actually.

- Whomever was in that BigBone Loma pro thread. How many times do I have to see the guy in clips posted by posters of him in the WSB :lol: atsch


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> It's a great thing and could generate some real excitement in the near future. He's completely leaping over the 'pro transition' phase and going right into the thick of things. There won't be any waiting for months and years on end, no discussion over "hype job", no discussion over "When's he going to step up?" no discussion over "Who has he beat?" ... He's flipping the middle finger to forum cunts and going for the jugular. Of course, he doesn't give a shit less about anybody on a forum :lol: It's being done indirectly though.


Like @thehook13 I've resented Loma's fast track( although the boy is extremely talented) but I've come around to thinking that it is quite refreshing.
Sure beats 2 years of KO'ing cans then three or four "step-ups" before a title eliminator.
He has an excellent all round game but you can never write Salido off either.
I'm a fan of Siri and an admirer of Loma.If Loma is the real deal then we have a fucking beast of a fight to look forward to.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

The whole Lomachenko thing is weird. An accomplished former amateur beats up a Journeyman in his professional debut, which is expected, and then he's suddenly among the best in the sport. I remember the likes of Glen McCrory singing his praises on Sky after his professional debut and talking about him being a World Champion in just a few fights time. I literally couldn't believe what I was hearing and was thoroughly expecting to come on here and have a good laugh at McCrory's expense only to find that you lot were singing the same tune. Weird.


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## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

Setanta said:


> Let me start by pointing out that you sound like pretty much of a cunt.
> 
> Your username, coupled with the fact that you speak of "respect" points to you being a _*stupid*_ cunt.
> 
> Now that we've got that cleared up, the article you linked on Boxing Scene clearly shows that Salido would rather face a lesser opponent than Lomachenko. This has more to do with his fear of losing his title than any guff about respect.


He is a massive stupid *racist *cunt!


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

I like Lomachenko and he is clearly pretty good......If Salido wins though, this place will be funny and crazy for a while after the fight:lol:....


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> The whole Lomachenko thing is weird. An accomplished former amateur beats up a Journeyman in his professional debut, which is expected, and then he's suddenly among the best in the sport. I remember the likes of Glen McCrory singing his praises on Sky after his professional debut and talking about him being a World Champion in just a few fights time. I literally couldn't believe what I was hearing and was thoroughly expecting to come on here and have a good laugh at McCrory's expense only to find that you lot were singing the same tune. Weird.


A journeyman who could barely beat a washed/never-was Bautista


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

turbotime said:


> A journeyman who could barely beat a washed/never-was Bautista







*"This is it! It's it! It's OVAH!" 
*


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Actually people were clowning on Donaire prior because he quite obviously wanted nothing to do with rigo until TR were backed into a corner and had to make the fight in order to save face. Odds were almost even for that fight actually.
> 
> - Whomever was in that BigBone Loma pro thread. How many times do I have to see the guy in clips posted by posters of him in the WSB :lol: atsch


As they should've. Though I thought it was getting a little out of hand myself, particularly AFTER he'd already signed the fight. There were plenty of trolls going the opposite way though too. One of the larger polls had Donaire taking 70% of the vote.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> As they should've. Though I thought it was getting a little out of hand myself, particularly AFTER he'd already signed the fight. There were plenty of trolls going the opposite way though too. One of the larger* polls had Donaire taking 70% of the vote.*


Probably all the youKnowWhos


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## Elliot (Jun 4, 2013)

If he's ranked and a mandatory isn't enforced I don't see the problem.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> *"This is it! It's it! It's OVAH!"
> *


The new Manny Pacquiao :ibutt!!!!v

(the '97 version)


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Probably all the youKnowWhos


Nah, real good posters too. It isn't like it was a terrible pick, people weren't sure about his chin more than anything else.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Nah, real good posters too. It isn't like it was a terrible pick, people weren't sure about his chin more than anything else.


Yeah, I think Big O and Flea had Donaire pegged as well. Me too, but my feet got pretty cold the night of the bout. I'd love to see a rematch just to see Rigo do it again :lol:


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Donaire may have fared better had he not been feasting on antiques like Jorge Arce and Toshiaki Nishioka prior to fighting Rigondeux. Nishioka was 36 years old and hadn't fought in a year. Arce was slightly younger at 33 but made a career out of fighting wars. Looking back, Donaire hadn't really looked good against a live opponent since beheading Fernando Montiel in '11.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Yeah, I think Big O and Flea had Donaire pegged as well. Me too, but my feet got pretty cold the night of the bout. I'd love to see a rematch just to see Rigo do it again :lol:


Big Bone, SJS as well. Honestly, I predicted different outcomes depending on the day. I wanted Rigondeaux to win and I remember you were kind of all like, "Why? Donaire is on his way to an ATG career" etc. I think he was on TurboTeam then :yep but it was the fight of Rigo's career really, especially for getting started so late as a pro and already at an advanced age, the whole backstory with defecting from Cuba. I was exchanging some motivational VMs with the poster of the same name on here (and ESB). Plus that BobtheBuilder motherfucker actually managed to get on my nerves with his trolling. :lol:


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Donaire may have fared better had he not been feasting on antiques like Jorge Arce and Toshiaki Nishioka prior to fighting Rigondeux. Nishioka was 36 years old and hadn't fought in a year. Arce was slightly younger at 33 but made a career out of fighting wars. Looking back, Donaire hadn't really looked good against a live opponent since beheading Fernando Montiel in '11.


:lol:

Nishioka was at least supposed to be 'live' despite his age and inactivity.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Nossa, nossa, assim você me mata


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> I'd love to see a rematch just to see Rigo do it again :lol:


It would have to be at a 123 lb catchweight and a rehydration limit of 10 lbs.

I wish I was joking.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> It would have to be at a 123 lb catchweight and a rehydration limit of 10 lbs.
> 
> I wish I was joking.


I hope Rigo doesn't get too big for himself already with his demands :-(


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> I hope Rigo doesn't get too big for himself already with his demands :-(


I think some people would happy to see him get put on queer street like Marroquin did to him twice, only follow up and put him out.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Permanent ban bet? Not just a month. Let's do a permanent one.


Why so you can return under an alt? Fuck off loser.


----------



## Leftsmash (Oct 22, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Big Bone, SJS as well. Honestly, I predicted different outcomes depending on the day. I wanted Rigondeaux to win and I remember you were kind of all like, "Why? Donaire is on his way to an ATG career" etc. I think he was on TurboTeam then :yep but it was the fight of Rigo's career really, especially for getting started so late as a pro and already at an advanced age, the whole backstory with defecting from Cuba. I was exchanging some motivational VMs with the poster of the same name on here (and ESB). Plus that BobtheBuilder motherfucker actually managed to get on my nerves with his trolling. :lol:


Bobthebuilder
#prayforRigondeaux

Sent from my GT-S5830V using Tapatalk 2


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> I have had a problem with loma getting a title shot. It looks bad for legitimacy in boxing. Having said that its a first ever achievement i want to see it happen


When has pro boxing ever been a legitimate sport? :lol:
It's always been a small step away from professional wrestling, Adrien Broner 3-weight division champ :lol:
The sport is olympic boxing, pro boxing is just a song and dance for money. How often do the best fight the best, how often do boxers challenge themselves? 
Lomachenko is making boxing more legitimate with what he is doing, hopefully others follow suit and we have less GRJ's in the game.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> The whole Lomachenko thing is weird. An accomplished former amateur beats up a Journeyman in his professional debut, which is expected, and then he's suddenly among the best in the sport. I remember the likes of Glen McCrory singing his praises on Sky after his professional debut and talking about him being a World Champion in just a few fights time. I literally couldn't believe what I was hearing and was thoroughly expecting to come on here and have a good laugh at McCrory's expense only to find that you lot were singing the same tune. Weird.


He was the best in the sport before he turned pro, he was already considered a boxing legend by every national team in the world. Pro boxing isn't the sport, it's the money. He's a complete fighter and I'm looking forward to what everybody has to say after the Salido fight.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Leftsmash said:


> Bobthebuilder
> #prayforRigondeaux
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5830V using Tapatalk 2


Bet he was bitterly disappointed. :lol: It was sort of amusing for a day or two... after Months of the same shit though?


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> When has pro boxing ever been a legitimatesport? It's always been a small step away from professionalwrestling, Adrien Broner 3-weight division champ. The sport is olympic boxing, pro boxing is just a song and dance for money. How often do the best fight the best, how often do boxers challenge themselves? Lomachenko is making boxing more legitimate with what he is doing, hopefully others follow suit and we have less GRJ's in the game.


Fighters been duckin' since the birth of it, primarily through use of the color line throughout the first several decades.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> He was the best in the sport before he turned pro, he was already considered a boxing legend by every national team in the world. Pro boxing isn't the sport, it's the money. He's a complete fighter and I'm looking forward to what everybody has to say after the Salido fight.


Bit off topic, but I always found Donald Curry to be one of the most talented boxers I've ever seen. Supposedly, he had something like a 400-4 amateur record, almost certainly would've taken a Gold medal at the 1980 Olympics if not for the boycott with it held in Moscow and all. Elite P4P fighter in the professional ranks as well obviously, though unfortunately short lived. Nobody really mentions him anymore, though we'll often cite numerous other ATG amateurs that went on to dominate in the pros and quickly stepped up their level of opposition when they broke in.


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## Johnstown (Jun 4, 2013)

:rolleyes


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Fighters been duckin' since the birth of it, primarily through use of the color line throughout the first several decades.


I can respect ducking to an extent (maybe not for racial reasons but financial), but when it gets to a GRJ level and you seemingly have some talent then it just kills the sport. If you're a true fan of boxing you should be applauding Lomachenko's approach and it should be hard not to be a fan.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Bit off topic, but I always found Donald Curry to be one of the most talented boxers I've ever seen. Supposedly, he had something like a 400-4 amateur record, almost certainly would've taken a Gold medal at the 1980 Olympics if not for the boycott with it held in Moscow and all. Elite P4P fighter in the professional ranks as well obviously, though unfortunately short lived. Nobody really mentions him anymore, though we'll often cite numerous other ATG amateurs that went on to dominate in the pros and quickly stepped up their level of opposition when they broke in.


I'm not too familiar with Curry tbh


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> I'm not too familiar with Curry tbh


The best welter since Leonard/Hearns.

Was one of the two best fighters in the world in his prime.

Very short prime.

Weight issues and drugs damaged his career.

Excellently schooled, very good power, very fast with almost no technical weaknesses.

Definitely a fighter to watch.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Bit off topic, but I always found Donald Curry to be one of the most talented boxers I've ever seen.


Curry would beat any post 80's welter.

And plenty before that.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> The best welter since Leonard/Hearns.
> 
> Was one of the two best fighters in the world in his prime.
> 
> ...


Yeah even after the Honeyghan debacle he was still the favourite to beat McCallum. He looked great against him up until that left hook from hell. Sometimes that's all it takes.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> The best welter since Leonard/Hearns.
> 
> Was one of the two best fighters in the world in his prime.
> 
> ...


Jab???


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Yeah even after the Honeyghan debacle he was still the favourite to beat McCallum. He looked great against him up until that left hook from hell. Sometimes that's all it takes.


:lol: :yep

He was giving McCallum the business before that.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> He was the best in the sport before he turned pro, he was already considered a boxing legend by every national team in the world. Pro boxing isn't the sport, it's the money. He's a complete fighter and I'm looking forward to what everybody has to say after the Salido fight.


He was the best Amateur. Amateur Boxing is not Professional Boxing. Don't be fooled, they are two completely different sports.

Do you think Lomachenko would be the first stand out Amateur to fail in the Pros? There have been many.



> Curry would beat any post 80's welter.
> 
> And plenty before that.


I definitely understand the love for Donald Curry. He was an accomplished boxer who had lovely technique and a lot of power at 147lbs, but he never really dominated in a way that convinces me he would topple the likes of Hoya, Trinidad, and Mayweather with any ease. The best fighter he fought at Welterweight was Marlon Starling, a great fighter himself and one that was hard to hit, and he was ran fairly close on both occasions. I don't mean that as a slight; Starling would fare quite well against the modern crop of Welterweights too, but Curry never separated himself from that level of fighter imo. There were no monsters left at 147lbs by the time Curry came onto the scene.

You described Gerry Penalosa's deficiencies as being one-paced and almost too methodical. Do you not think the same was true for Curry?


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> Nishioka was at least supposed to be 'live' despite his age and inactivity.


Then the general consensus was wrong, Hands.

Nishioka was never an outstandingly talented fighter in the first place. He was a late bloomer. A lot of is made of him going 8 years undefeated, but he didn't really start fighting notable opposition until '09 with that peach of a left hand against Jhonny Gonzalez. He had been fighting the likes of Rendall Munroe and an ancient Rafael Marquez prior to fighting Nonito Donaire, seen by many as one of the top 5 fighters in the world at the time. If you want any chance of winning against that level of fighter than you at least have to be active. Nishiosa wasn't active, he wasn't young, and he'd never stepped in a ring with anyone close to a Nonito Donaire in his 19 years of being a Pro. I'm not being funny, but this dude had his first Pro fight in 1994 Hands. He looked old.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Then the general consensus was wrong, Hands.
> 
> Nishioka was never an outstandingly talented fighter in the first place. He was a late bloomer. A lot of is made of him going 8 years undefeated, but he didn't really start fighting notable opposition until '09 with that peach of a left hand against Jhonny Gonzalez. He had been fighting the likes of Rendall Munroe and an ancient Rafael Marquez prior to fighting Nonito Donaire, seen by many as one of the top 5 fighters in the world at the time. If you want any chance of winning against that level of fighter than you at least have to be active. Nishiosa wasn't active, he wasn't young, and he'd never stepped in a ring with anyone close to a Nonito Donaire in his 19 years of being a Pro. I'm not being funny, but this dude had his first Pro fight in 1994 Hands. He looked old.


Fuck yea, he looked old. He looked like he had both feet into retirement and not just one. I'm just saying there was a big stink made about Donaire 'fighting the best' when that fight came about :lol: -- and yeah, the eight years unbeaten and still being the #1 rated 122lber despite an almost year-layoff were brought up often.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Jab???


What's wrong with it?

Anyway, jab is for bitches - clubbing bombs, unccordinated swings and brutal headbutts is where it's at.

By the way, Ragamuffin is even more underrated than Curry.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> He was the best Amateur. Amateur Boxing is not Professional Boxing. Don't be fooled, they are two completely different sports.
> 
> Do you think Lomachenko would be the first stand out Amateur to fail in the Pros? There have been many.


He is the best fighter in boxing, period. You're right, amateur boxing is a sport and pro boxing is completely different, it's a business. In pro boxing you don't have to be the best to win a title.
Lomachenko isn't just a stand out amateur, as I said he's the best fighter in the world. Watch him dominate Salido and the pro game, wait and see.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> What's wrong with it?
> 
> Anyway, jab is for bitches - clubbing bombs, unccordinated swings and brutal headbutts is where it's at.
> 
> By the way, Ragamuffin is even more underrated than Curry.


Where does Honeyghan's triumph rate as far as ATG British victories?


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Fuck yea, he looked old. He looked like he had both feet into retirement and not just one. I'm just saying there was a big stink made about Donaire 'fighting the best' when that fight came about :lol: -- and yeah, the eight years unbeaten and still being the #1 rated 122lber despite an almost year-layoff were brought up often.


Nishioka could have be 24 years old and fighting at the rate of 4 fights a year and he still would have come up short against Nonito Donaire. There's a clear level between the two in terms of ability, so to have all of those things stacked against you too makes for a pretty easy fight to predict.

I have a fight of Nishioka's from 2007 against a guy called Pederito Laurente. Outside of a bit of hand speed, it's really difficult to cite any qualities of his that would lead you to believe he would ever be a World Champion. He seemed content to just stand in front of his opponent and initiate the exchanges, but he didn't really have the variety in his offense to always make that work for him. Looking at some of his more recent outings however, he's using his legs a lot more; darting in and out of range. More lateral movement so he's not always in one place, and instead of closing his eyes and backing up in the face of fire, he's a lot more composed so that he can see opportunities to counter. Just a much better fighter overall.



> He is the best fighter in boxing, period. You're right, amateur boxing is a sport and pro boxing is completely different, it's a business. In pro boxing you don't have to be the best to win a title.
> Lomachenko isn't just a stand out amateur, as I said he's the best fighter in the world. Watch him dominate Salido and the pro game, wait and see.


:lol: He may well dominate Salido, who's tough rather than talented, but that wouldn't make Lomachenko the best fighter in the world.

I look forward to seeing Lomachenko take punches without a headguard on for 12 3 minute rounds against experienced and talented Professional Boxers some time in the future.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

@Pedderrs will rock All-Cubano attire for the Rigondeaux-Lomachenko showdown


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Nishioka could have be 24 years old and fighting at the rate of 4 fights a year and he still would have come up short against Nonito Donaire. There's a clear level between the two in terms of ability, so to have all of those things stacked against you too makes for a pretty easy fight to predict.
> 
> I have a fight of Nishioka's from 2007 against a guy called Pederito Laurente. Outside of a bit of hand speed, it's really difficult to cite any qualities of his that would lead you to believe he would ever be a World Champion. He seemed content to just stand in front of his opponent and initiate the exchanges, but he didn't really have the variety in his offense to always make that work for him. Looking at some of his more recent outings however, he's using his legs a lot more; darting in and out of range. More lateral movement so he's not always in one place, and instead of closing his eyes and backing up in the face of fire, he's a lot more composed so that he can see opportunities to counter. Just a much better fighter overall.


People were so confident in a Nishioka win, they put their 'forum accounts' on the line. Non-trolls. :lol:

That's otherwise some good stuff and interesting points.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> but that wouldn't make Lomachenko the best fighter in the world.


No, being the best fighter in the world makes him the best fighter in the world.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> @*Pedderrs* will rock All-Cubano attire for the Rigondeaux-Lomachenko showdown














> No, being the best fighter in the world makes him the best fighter in the world.


Apparently beating...err..Jose Ramirez..??..make you the best Professional Boxer in the world.

And this was better.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> No, being the best fighter in the world makes him the best fighter in the world.


What 'bout Rigo and Ward? :conf


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> What 'bout Rigo and Ward? :conf


Yeah but those two didn't compete in the World Series of Boxing, Hands. YDKSAB.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Apparently beating...err..Jose Ramirez..??..make you the best Professional Boxer in the world.
> 
> And this was better.


Were you the one that said, "If Mosley was the third best fighter in the world when Mayweather fought him, they should just pack the whole game in" :rofl Or was that @sweet_scientist ?

Whitaker called winning the Gold in '84 the Highlight of his Career tho. :hey


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Yeah but those two didn't compete in the World Series of Boxing, Hands. YDKSAB.


I tend to become overly focused on the fighters and eras that interest me (and it repeats) rather than learning something new aside from gloss over crash courses, that's my real problem. Az it is, I am actually rooting for this kid to show something special and become an elite P4P, it could only be a good thing for the sport.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Why so you can return under an alt? Fuck off loser.


IP permanent ban you bi-polar weirdo.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Thread needs @The Undefeated Gaul in here. I only got one day left before I drastically cut back on output. Resolutions and all.

EDIT: Damn :rofl :rofl


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Thread needs @The Undefeated Gaul in here. I only got one day left before I drastically cut back on output. Resolutions and all.
> 
> EDIT: Damn :rofl :rofl


:lol: Well, consider this our version of new years fireworks on CHB today, and we'll drastically cut down. How much are you going to cut down?


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> I tend to become overly focused on the fighters and eras that interest me (and it repeats) rather than learning something new aside from gloss over crash courses, that's my real problem. Az it is, I am actually rooting for this kid to show something special and become an elite P4P, it could only be a good thing for the sport.


I'm not that fussed whether he succeeds or not, I just think it's ridiculous to claim a man who's only had 1 Professional bout is the best fighter in the world. If Amateur Boxing and Professional was the same thing, we'd be talking about Felix Savon rather than Muhammad Ali. Odlanier Solís would probably be the unified Heavyweight Champion of the World. But, in reality, they are two different sports and Lomachenko's Amateur achievements should be considered something entirely separate.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Do you not think the same was true for Curry?


To some degree, yes,

He was no Guinn, but yeah Curry was methodical and preferred to work at his own pace.

Although unlike Penalosa who probably would have won his controversial fights more emphatically if he was more aggressive/active Curry was actually better as a patient boxer/puncher.

He became a bit more straight-forward, less boxing-orientated by the time he fought Rodriguez and McCrory.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> The whole Lomachenko thing is weird. An accomplished former amateur beats up a Journeyman in his professional debut, which is expected, and then he's suddenly among the best in the sport. I remember the likes of Glen McCrory singing his praises on Sky after his professional debut and talking about him being a World Champion in just a few fights time. I literally couldn't believe what I was hearing and was thoroughly expecting to come on here and have a good laugh at McCrory's expense only to find that you lot were singing the same tune. Weird.


He beat a very, very good journeyman who had a WBO Intl Featherweight title. He didn't even want to fight the guy but he wasn't allowed to go for the title in his first fight as he had to become ranked first.

Imagine that was a title fight, Lomachenko would have KO1'd Ramirez but in the first round he shrugged at his corner looking displeased at the fact that Ramirez went down for a 9 count in the first round and then immediately after Ramirez got up, Loma gave him space and room as he wanted to get pacing down.

Yes, since he's favourite against Salido it's also 'expected' that he beats Salido too..double standards apply. The fact is, Loma was a debutant against a 28 fight pro with 25 of them being wins. I don't think you know enough about Jose Ramirez either. He's the sort of fighter who would really turn up at the bigger events and has some lazy ass days. Fighting Harada comes to mind.

You couldn't believe it because you haven't seen anything of Loma other than one or two WSB fights. Everyone recognises Loma as a monster but soma are too pussy to make a judgement on how good he'll be.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> :lol: Well, consider this our version of new years fireworks on CHB today, and we'll drastically cut down. How much are you going to cut down?


A lot, a lot.

I don't think this thread could ever reach the epic levels of the "I'm sorry, it's gone too far" -- Almost everything I said in that was half trollish and fucking around, especially repeatedly bringing James Toney, Mike McCallum and Michael Nunn into the conversation in a Lomachenko thread. Shit was fun as hell though. I was serious about Chavez on the first page though.

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?25607-I-m-sorry-but-it-s-gone-too-far-now


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I don't think you know enough about Jose Ramirez either. He's the sort of fighter who would really turn up at the bigger events and has some lazy ass days. Fighting Harada comes to mind.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> He beat a very, very good journeyman who had a WBO Intl Featherweight title. He didn't even want to fight the guy but he wasn't allowed to go for the title in his first fight as he had to become ranked first.
> 
> Imagine that was a title fight, Lomachenko would have KO1'd Ramirez but in the first round he shrugged at his corner looking displeased at the fact that Ramirez went down for a 9 count in the first round and then immediately after Ramirez got up, Loma gave him space and room as he wanted to get pacing down.
> 
> ...


I know that you know that I know I'm going to be rooting the Loma Express on. I won't put him above Mayweather, Ward or Rigondeaux at this particular time. Let's get some scheduled 12 rounders under the belt here.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

_'According to the lot in here, he beat up all those 'champs' in the WSB doe.
- Whomever was in that BigBone Loma pro thread. How many times do I have to see the guy in clips posted by posters of him in the WSB'_
*- This is what turbo said.*

You shouldn't talk down on WSB. 
- 5 rounders
- pro setting. 
- A lot of debutants only fight in 4, 5, 6 rounders
- Vasyl happened to have fought guys who are very skilled amateurs, not bums or weak journeymen
- and if you look further into it, he fought tough opposition who are very acclimated to WSB's pro setting because of their styles. 
- He fought Selimov whos a sure thing to be a future star if he turns pro, and Bashenov - they both had undefeated records. Do you know how hard it is to go four fights against good opposition to be undefeated over there? I would think the average ratio of win:loss for fighters is around 70:30 to 30:70 ...well that's kinda saying 50:50 :lol:
- His other opponents were very good too i.e one of the Amateur Greats Valentino, Suarez who did a very good job in WSB, Maxwell. Sometimes top fighters get drawn against guys who are 1-3, 1-4 etc. Vasyl is 6-0 against top opposition.
- Lomachenko only lost 2 or 3 rounds in the whole tournament (30 rounds).
- These rounds that Vasyl fought are far more educational than the rounds that Rigondeaux fought on cruise control against bums. When I say Lomachenko would beat Salido, it's not any more of a stretch than saying Rigondeaux would beat Donaire. Rigondeaux got uncomfortable fighting aggressive against Cordoba so what did he do? He went back to that same amateur style that won him all the accolades and did nothing different.

I leave you with @Hands of Iron 's words to sum up this part 
'I'm just recalling all the bullshit I read from people about Rigondeaux being a glass jawed fraud, how he hadn't beat anybody, didn't deserve the Donaire fight, was going to get crushed when they fought, etc etc This went on for like a year or so and Then what happened? People shut the fuck up, quick fast. Lomachenko isn't even giving people the time for that to marinate, it's more No, you're going to shut your fucking mouth right now and recognize. And if he doesn't... Then that's a lot of time and speculation saved either way.'


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

If Lomachenko gets hurt in the Pros then I genuinely fear for The Undefeated Gaul's safety. We'll have to get this kid on suicide watch.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


>


atsch please. Let's focus on the actual points being made here. FH had his fair share of super lazy fights and being out of shape.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

I wanna see Lomachenko try and close the distance on Rigo and fuck his shit up without eating mini-nukes for straight left hands :deal 

Can you fuck with this footwork? That's the Q. :yep


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> atsch please. Let's focus on the actual points being made here. FH had his fair share of super lazy fights and being out of shape.


Fighting Harada was a two weight world champion who unified the Bantamweight division when monsters like Eder Jofre, Joe Medel, and Lionel Rose were around. He would also typically fight 4-5 times a year, as opposed Jose Ramirez, who, with a record of 25-4, fights 2 times a year. The comparison is absolutely barking mad. It's lunacy. Why the holy mother of fuck are we mentioning one of the greatest Bantamweights of all time in the same breath as a no-name. A fighter who scraped past Rey Bautista. You've lost the plot.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> If Lomachenko gets hurt in the Pros then I genuinely fear for The Undefeated Gaul's safety. We'll have to get this kid on suicide watch.


:rolleyes

We were just talking about Loma. Are you going to be one of those guys?
Well if Loma loses against Salido, it's by all means a possibility although I feel strongly that Loma would win, I'd put it down to Loma's confusion over pacing. Loma hasn't got this bit down yet in his game and is fighting the king of pacing in boxing who puts you through the paces. 
So once Loma has the pacing down completely in terms of understanding, then I actually full on predict a stoppage for Loma. So really, a loss against Salido won't make me any less of a Lomatard as I still believe he'd become an ATG that I think he would be.

There'd be posters on here who would go crazy and so happy that Loma lost, but they need to see the big picture.

Many people had issue supporting Rigondeaux over Donaire, in Rigo's 12th fight...jus' sayin'.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Fighting Harada was a two weight world champion who unified the Bantamweight division when monsters like Eder Jofre, Joe Medel, and Lionel Rose were around. He would also typically fight 4-5 times a year, as opposed Jose Ramirez, who, with a record of 25-4, fights 2 time a year. The comparison is absolutely barking mad. It's lunacy. Why the holy mother of fuck are we mentioning one of the greatest Bantamweights of all time in the same breath as a no-name. A fighter who scraped past Ray Bautista. You've lost the plot.


Quit with the attitude and converse properly. I know a lot about FH, I've been learning about him for a long time now.

You're completely ignoring the statement I made...'He's the sort of fighter who would really turn up at the bigger events and has some lazy ass days.' p.s Ramirez would typically fight 4 times a year too :conf


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Where does Honeyghan's triumph rate as far as ATG British victories?


Right below P.Barrett - Efren Calamati.

It's a great win that looks even better on paper.

Beating the best/second best fighter in the world is impressive, any way you slice it.

If only Curry didn't look so bad/weight-drained in the process...
This fight is one the main reasons Curry is underrated today, in my opinion.

It's a pity Ragamuffin's prime was even shorter than Curry's

I'd say it's probably the best British win since the 80's.

Maybe since Stracey-Napoles.
Although some people really rate Barry "HoF" Mcguigan's win over a fading Pedroza.

And yes, Cal-Hop was a pure shitfest.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Quit with the attitude and converse properly. I know a lot about FH, I've been learning about him for a long time now.
> 
> You're completely ignoring the statement I made...'He's the sort of fighter who would really turn up at the bigger events and has some lazy ass days.' p.s Ramirez would typically fight 4 times a year too :conf


Ramirez might fight 4 times a year if he's fighting men with losing records but it's obviously non-comparable to someone like Harada, who was fighting at that same rate at the highest level of the game against tough, talented fighters who were hungry. Harada can be excused for lazy days because he was fighting that regularly against opponents who actually turned up to the win the fight. The same cannot be said for Ramirez, a glorified Journeyman.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> He was the best Amateur. Amateur Boxing is not Professional Boxing. Don't be fooled, they are two completely different sports.
> 
> Do you think Lomachenko would be the first stand out Amateur to fail in the Pros? There have been many.


There have, but Loma has a very pro style, he has great athleticism and stamina which is always mentioned in his fights. He spars 15 rounders with bigger guys.
He has been fighting guys who a year later were competing as 140lbers as pros or amateurs where they were silver medalists in world ams etc. he's been hit by these guys and I've never seen him wobble so far..considering Loma is a 128lber, it's probably safe to predict he has a good chin.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Ramirez might fight 4 times a year if he's fighting men with losing records but it's obviously non-comparable to someone like Harada, who was fighting at that same rate at the highest level of the game against tough, talented fighters who were hungry. Harada can be excused for lazy days because he was fighting that regularly against opponents who actually turned up to the win the fight. The same cannot be said for Ramirez, a glorified Journeyman.


You're really clasping at straws and not focussing on the big picture here. I was giving an innocent example as a sidenote by mentioning Harada and his lazy days. Focus.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I wanna see Lomachenko try and close the distance on Rigo and fuck his shit up without eating mini-nukes for straight left hands :deal
> 
> Can you fuck with this footwork? That's the Q. :yep


Loma's a pure expert at this, if he can't do it, no one can. Rigo(e)'s footwork doee.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Apparently beating...err..Jose Ramirez..??..make you the best Professional Boxer in the world.
> 
> And this was better.


Whitaker did not get what is most probably the best debut win in history. Loma's about records.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> What 'bout Rigo and Ward? :conf


Rigo is one-dimensional in a sense as you've touched on previously, mostly an outside fighter and very set in his tempo. Ward is the fighter that reminds me most of Lomachenko in the pro game with his inside and outside work, his mental toughness etc. But Ward lacks the pure athleticism of Lomachenko, and pound for pound Lomachenko is the much more powerful fighter imo.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> You're really clasping at straws and not focussing on the big picture here. I was giving an innocent example as a sidenote by mentioning Harada and his lazy days. Focus.


And like I've said, it's non-comparable because there's a massive disparity in quality between the guys Fighting Harada was fighting compared to who Jose Ramirez has fought. You even challenged the idea that Jose Ramirez only fights twice a year. The last time he fought more regularly than that was when he was up against guys with losing records. It's something to consider. I appreciate the fact you feel the need to talk up Ramirez into being an opponent with substance but the guy was fighting losing records only two years ago. Lomachenko was supposed to beat him and did in impressive fashion. It was an expected result. Please don't try and talk it up into being anything other than that. Let it go.



> But Ward lacks the pure athleticism of Lomachenko, and pound for pound Lomachenko is the much more powerful fighter imo.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> And like I've said, it's non-comparable because there's a massive disparity in quality between the guys Fighting Harada was fighting compared to who Jose Ramirez has fought. You even challenged the idea that Jose Ramirez only fights twice a year. The last time he fought more regularly than that was when he was up against guys with losing records. It's something to consider. I appreciate the fact you feel the need to talk up Ramirez into being an opponent with substance but the guy was fighting losing records only two years ago. Lomachenko was supposed to beat him and did in impressive fashion. It was an expected result. Please don't try and talk it up into being anything other than that. Let it go.


A lot of people were shocked that Lomachenko was fighting Ramirez in his pro debut, in a 10 rounder against an experienced pro who had never been stopped. Some even picked Ramirez so don't act like it was completely expected. After the Salido fight we'll hear the same shit about "The result was expected.. Salido is shot.. Gamboa/Rigo/Garcia etc. will chop up this amateur". Promise you'll come back after Lomachenko has had 10 fights and ranked p4p #1 , and tell me that you were wrong and you're sorry etc.?


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> A lot of people were shocked that Lomachenko was fighting Ramirez in his pro debut, in a 10 rounder against an experienced pro who had never been stopped. Some even picked Ramirez so don't act like it was completely expected. After the Salido fight we'll hear the same shit about "The result was expected.. Salido is shot.. Gamboa/Rigo/Garcia etc. will chop up this amateur". Promise you'll come back after Lomachenko has had 10 fights and ranked p4p #1 , and tell me that you were wrong and you're sorry etc.?


I promise.


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## AzarZ (Dec 17, 2013)

People hating on Loma for this? So what if its undeserved hes rightfully living of his amateur credentials n is willing to step up with Salido after only one fight, too many boxers dont want to step up and now you have a guy willing to mix it with the best and people are hating.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> And like I've said, it's non-comparable because there's a massive disparity in quality between the guys Fighting Harada was fighting compared to who Jose Ramirez has fought. You even challenged the idea that Jose Ramirez only fights twice a year. The last time he fought more regularly than that was when he was up against guys with losing records. It's something to consider. I appreciate the fact you feel the need to talk up Ramirez into being an opponent with substance but the guy was fighting losing records only two years ago. Lomachenko was supposed to beat him and did in impressive fashion. It was an expected result. Please don't try and talk it up into being anything other than that. Let it go.


That's still a non-issue. Quality of opposition certainly isn't everything in this discussion, if you're unprepared by your own standards then you're unprepared. Harada has a higher ceiling in regards to ability. Please, think more critically I don't like discussions with people who's heads are too scrambled. 
Ramirez fighting say, twice a year still doesn't mean that he would be performing well by his own standards. I think it's a real psychological thing but I expect to see him performing better as he hopes to make more purses off the bat of the Lomachenko loss. But rumour has it he's still rolling around since the knockout in round 4. 
Besides, Ramirez had less of an incentive too given that he wasn't paid for his fights.

We saw a very determined Ramirez against Bautista, whether you want to talk up or down on Bautista doesn't change the fact that the Ramirez that fought Bautista is better than a Ramirez who's all fat and lazy azz having no business at 135lbs either. It was a win that enabled Loma to be the WBO International Featherweight titleholder in his first fight :lol: Unfortunately for him, he couldn't fight Salido on his debut.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> A lot, a lot.
> 
> I don't think this thread could ever reach the epic levels of the "I'm sorry, it's gone too far" -- Almost everything I said in that was half trollish and fucking around, especially repeatedly bringing James Toney, Mike McCallum and Michael Nunn into the conversation in a Lomachenko thread. Shit was fun as hell though. I was serious about Chavez on the first page though.
> 
> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?25607-I-m-sorry-but-it-s-gone-too-far-now


Haha, great thread. Aint nothing like Toney trollin'


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Haha, great thread. Aint nothing like Toney trollin'


Toney trollin' is fantastic, but there's nothing quite like the trollin' that's been going on in this thread. You're a laugh, Gaul.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Toney trollin' is fantastic, but there's nothing quite like the trollin' that's been going on in this thread. *You're a laugh, Gaul.*


I've made my statements and they are intelligent and well thought out. You don't really know anything about Lomachenko and you also have demonstrated 1. reading comprehension problems 2. a lack of critical thinking, hence your weird obsession for the point I made about Harada..I feel that it was an attempt to hide from the other points I made.
Have a break.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Toney trollin' is fantastic, but there's nothing quite like the trollin' that's been going on in this thread. You're a laugh, Gaul.


Great signature. It's going to disappear after Lomachenko has had a couple of fights and you see how legit he is but it's a good laugh for now.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I've made my statements and they are intelligent and well thought out. You don't really know anything about Lomachenko and you also have demonstrated 1. reading comprehension problems 2. a lack of critical thinking, hence your weird obsession for the point I made about Harada..I feel that it was an attempt to hide from the other points I made.
> Have a break.


:lol: I know as much about Lomachenko as he knows about Professional Boxing. True.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Loma's a pure expert at this, if he can't do it, no one can. Rigo(e)'s footwork doee.


:lol:

@Dealt_with believes Rigondeaux will be an easier task than Salido, though obviously not a better win. I'm not exactly sure what the specific reasons for that are but I'd assume they'd at least partially have to do with the likelihood that Lomachenko will be coming forward much more often (I'd say for the entirety of the bout) to apply pressure utilizing his full range of capabilities on the front foot to close the distance, cut the ring, create offensive angles and hit Rigo where he hasn't shown to be nearly as skilled or elusive on the inside. I'd also imagine the fact -- and I do think it's a fact, unfortunately -- that Rigo is packing a bit of fragile glass in that little mandible of his has something to do with it. He's also just a much smaller fighter (than Salido), he's a little guy. Naturally smaller than Loma too. Whereas against Orlando, I'd be surprised if he doesn't display more in terms of his defensive footwork and lateral movement, taking the open counterpunching opportunities that'll be presented to him and turning Salido's crude aggression against him with speed, precision and a wide variety in terms of punch selection. Hell, maybe he'll meet him head on in the centre of the ring and just dismantle him, I honestly don't know. I'd shit my pants if that happened. It probably wouldn't be the most unscathed of routes for him to take when he can win in much cleaner fashion though.



Dealt_with said:


> *Rigo is one-dimensional in a sense as you've touched on previously, mostly an outside fighter and very set in his tempo.* Ward is the fighter that reminds me most of Lomachenko in the pro game with his inside and outside work, his mental toughness etc. But Ward lacks the pure athleticism of Lomachenko, and pound for pound Lomachenko is the much more powerful fighter imo.


Yeah, I kinda shot myself in the foot with that one. Even went on and on about it. :lol: -- though the whole point circled back to why I'm so impressed with his dominance despite the lack of versatility to his game.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> @Dealt_with believes Rigondeaux will be an easier task than Salido, though obviously not a better win. I'm not exactly sure what the specific reasons for that are but I'd assume they'd at least partially have to do with the likelihood that Lomachenko will be coming forward much more often (I'd say for the entirety of the bout) to apply pressure utilizing his full range of capabilities on the front foot to close the distance, cut the ring, create offensive angles and hit Rigo where he hasn't shown to be nearly as skilled or elusive on the inside. I'd also imagine the fact -- and I do think it's a fact, unfortunately -- that Rigo is packing a bit of fragile glass in that little mandible of his has something to do with it. He's also just a much smaller fighter (than Salido), he's a little guy. Naturally smaller than Loma too. Whereas against Orlando, I'd be surprised if he doesn't display more in terms of his defensive footwork and lateral movement, taking the open counterpunching opportunities that'll be presented to him and turning Salido's crude aggression against him with speed, precision and a wide variety in terms of punch selection. Hell, maybe he'll meet him head on in the centre of the ring and just dismantle him, I honestly don't know. I'd shit my pants if that happened. It probably wouldn't be the most unscathed of routes for him to take when he can win in much cleaner fashion though.
> 
> Yeah, I kinda shot myself in the foot with that one. Even went on and on about it. :lol: -- though the whole point circled back to why I'm so impressed with his dominance despite the lack of versatility to his game.


Nailed it. I'm also convinced that Lomachenko simply can't be outboxed by anyone (even Rigo), it's a slim possibility he could be outfought when he isn't used to 12 rounds (and Salido is the perfect guy to do it at the perfect time). I back him fully against Salido but this will be his biggest challenge as a pro, dominance against elite competition will come afterwards.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Stop encouraging them, Hands.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Stop encouraging them, Hands.


How much of Lomachenko have you actually seen? You don't realise how rare of a talent he is.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> How much of Lomachenko have you actually seen? You don't realise how rare of a talent he is.


Fairly impressive video there but nothing mind-blowing. Certainly not in line with the idea that Lomachenko is the greatest fighter to ever step into a ring. Again, world class Amateurs have entered the Pro ranks before only to have underwhelming careers. You all talk as if Lomachenko is entitled to a ATG career based on his Amateur achievements. It does not work like that.


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Fairly impressive video there but nothing mind-blowing. Certainly not in line with the idea that Lomachenko is the greatest fighter to ever step into a ring. Again, world class Amateurs have entered the Pro ranks before only to have underwhelming careers. You all talk as if Lomachenko is entitled to a ATG career based on his Amateur achievements. It does not work like that.


Just out of interest, how far do you think he will go? Obviously it's early days still


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Fairly impressive video there but nothing mind-blowing. Certainly not in line with the idea that Lomachenko is the greatest fighter to ever step into a ring. Again, world class Amateurs have entered the Pro ranks before only to have underwhelming careers. You all talk as if Lomachenko is entitled to a ATG career based on his Amateur achievements. It does not work like that.


He's not entitled to anything, but he will have an ATG career starting off with his title in his second fight. You can't tell a lot by looking at a highlights package, you need to have seen a lot of fights against a lot of styles to make a sound judgement. Lomachenko isn't as immediately eye catching as someone like Rigondeaux/Gamboa/Jones with their clean athleticism from the outside. Lomachenko knows boxing back to front, he can do it all. And he only knows how to win (396-1 with the loss avenged), there is nothing comparable to his amateur record. This isn't your average gold medal winning prospect coming into the pros, this is a seasoned double gold medallist who as I said, can absolutely do it all in the boxing ring. Even Rigondeaux (who I love) has nowhere near the potential Lomachenko has. Just watch.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Eoghan said:


> Just out of interest, how far do you think he will go? Obviously it's early days still


I have not the slightest clue how far he is going to go, Eoghan. It's incredibly hard to gauge based on one fight against a glorified Journeyman. I'm not completely dismissing what he has done as an Amateur, I just don't think it necessarily guarantees him success in the Pros.

It's great that we have a guy who's being fast-tracked. What I take exception to is short-sighted posters on these forums who are already claiming he is better than proven Professionals like Andre Ward and Floyd Mayweather Jr. It's beyond absurd.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> @Dealt_with believes Rigondeaux will be an easier task than Salido, though obviously not a better win. I'm not exactly sure what the specific reasons for that are but I'd assume they'd at least partially have to do with the likelihood that Lomachenko will be coming forward much more often (I'd say for the entirety of the bout) to apply pressure utilizing his full range of capabilities on the front foot to close the distance, cut the ring, create offensive angles and hit Rigo where he hasn't shown to be nearly as skilled or elusive on the inside. I'd also imagine the fact -- and I do think it's a fact, unfortunately -- that Rigo is packing a bit of fragile glass in that little mandible of his has something to do with it. He's also just a much smaller fighter (than Salido), he's a little guy. Naturally smaller than Loma too. Whereas against Orlando, I'd be surprised if he doesn't display more in terms of his defensive footwork and lateral movement, taking the open counterpunching opportunities that'll be presented to him and turning Salido's crude aggression against him with speed, precision and a wide variety in terms of punch selection. Hell, maybe he'll meet him head on in the centre of the ring and just dismantle him, I honestly don't know. I'd shit my pants if that happened. It probably wouldn't be the most unscathed of routes for him to take when he can win in much cleaner fashion though.
> 
> Yeah, I kinda shot myself in the foot with that one. Even went on and on about it. :lol: -- though the whole point circled back to why I'm so impressed with his dominance despite the lack of versatility to his game.


Nice post Hands

I think I broke the fight down before but I really don't remember what I wrote, but I think it was similar outlook.
I'm not too sure I can accurately guess how Loma will win. I don't think people should even rule out a KO in under 6 rounds by Loma. Salido is going to go into the fight asking for this to happen. I'm sure that's what'll happen if Salido fights a 5 fight pro Loma. It's going to be a dangerous fight for both, look at Salido's KO ratio post-Marquez for example, but Loma is two levels above Salido on the inside which is Salido's forte. One thing about Lomatards is that we have not been oblivious to certain things like Lomahaters are, we've given Loma's opponents their full weighting and respect.

I have different theories on how Salido fight can go, so it's not very easy for me to say Loma will have an easier time against Rigo. I feel Loma would beat Rigo 8-4, maybe even get a TKO11 or TKO12 on Rigo (this is appreciating that Rigo is not as glass chinned as others think).


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Fairly impressive video there but nothing mind-blowing. Certainly not in line with the idea that Lomachenko is the greatest fighter to ever step into a ring. Again, world class Amateurs have entered the Pro ranks before only to have underwhelming careers. You all talk as if Lomachenko is entitled to a ATG career based on his Amateur achievements. It does not work like that.


Give your reasons why you feel there is nothing mind blowing..

I've already adressed the world class amateurs being shit pros. 
Loma had a very pro style and stuck to that throughout the ams, the pro scoring is going to favour him in terms of scoring than the amateur scoring system. Same with Robeisy Ramirez (someone you should look out for). He's not the amateur fencing style guy. 
Loma has big power, great body puncher, ridiculously highly skilled as a body puncher.
He's complete as a fighter. He can have a completely great career just being a counter puncher, but oh, that's not even his forte. He's masterful inside fighter and masterful come forward fighter.
He has the athleticism, stamina and trains to go 15 rounds. 
It seems safe to say he has a good chin considering he was small for the lightweight division and was taking shots well by 140lbers
He has a lot of heart, a great work ethic.

- What is stopping the guy? Just piece it up together?


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## chibelle (Jun 5, 2013)

To me in that video, he seems to dominate his opponents through activity and not necessarily technical superiority. He beats them because a lot of them are unwilling to trade with him. Though he is very athletic, his athleticism is nothing special. He has good quick feet but his reflexes are nowhere near RJJ, PBF and Rigo. His ring generalship is not even close to Ward or BHop. He gets hit for some one that is supposedly defensively technical.

His power is something I still can't get a read on.

From what I see now, I think he is a belt holder. I don't see a HoF, let alone a ATG. I need to see better comps.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

chibelle said:


> To me in that video, he seems to dominate his opponents through activity and not necessarily technical superiority. He beats them because a lot of them are unwilling to trade with him. Though he is very athletic, his athleticism is nothing special. He has good quick feet but his reflexes are nowhere near RJJ, PBF and Rigo. His ring generalship is not even close to Ward or BHop. He gets hit for some one that is supposedly defensively technical.
> 
> His power is something I still can't get a read on.
> 
> From what I see now, I think he is a belt holder. I don't see a HoF, let alone a ATG. I need to see better comps.


:rofl


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Give your reasons why you feel there is nothing mind blowing..
> 
> I've already adressed the world class amateurs being shit pros.
> Loma had a very pro style and stuck to that throughout the ams, the pro scoring is going to favour him in terms of scoring than the amateur scoring system. Same with Robeisy Ramirez (someone you should look out for). He's not the amateur fencing style guy.
> ...


The only thing I have ever said in regards to Lomachenko is that it's far too early to be talking about him being a HOF or an ATG. There are so many other fighters I'd rather watch right now so I don't feel like watching any of his Amateur fights. Instead, I'd rather just watch his Professional career unfold and judge his fighting abilities once he has fought someone of any substance.

Is that okay with you, Gaul?


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Stop encouraging them, Hands.


You'll see this stuff continues even without me engaging them in conversation. They'll continue arguing and won't back off until the debate has been beaten senseless and then re-up's on another thread. I've called them both lunatics :lol: But they're not bad people, they follow the sport well outside of Lomachenko, it actually makes for some very good boxing conversation and maybe the biggest kicker is that given how much stock and value they put into the amateur system, they both have a lot of appreciation for and can discuss RiGod at pretty good length :yep Only a select few other people will really do that that I can find here, @Chacal ... @JMP though I certainly wouldn't say he's a huge fan, @SJS20 could but I don't think he really cares for him too much. :lol:










Stop predicting KO losses in his future. :ibutt


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> The only thing I have ever said in regards to Lomachenko is that it's far too early to be talking about him being a HOF or an ATG. There are so many other fighters I'd rather watch right now so I don't feel like watching any of his Amateur fights. Instead, I'd rather just watch his Professional career unfold and judge his fighting abilities once he has fought someone of any substance.
> 
> Is that okay with you, Gaul?


Loma's resume has nothing to do with the indisputable fact that he is the best boxer in the world. He simply is. In fact he is sui generis, a prodigy and a genius.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

LittleRed said:


> Loma's resume has nothing to do with the indisputable fact that he is the best boxer in the world. He simply is. In fact he is sui generis, a prodigy and a genius.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


>


:rofl

The fact that Duran survived a bit of that is still pretty G though.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :rofl
> 
> The fact that Duran survived a bit of that is still pretty G though.


It's a really ridiculous meme for many obvious reasons, but it still makes me laugh like hell. :rofl

The "Who's More Skilled" topic is fucking legendary. :yep


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> You'll see this stuff continues even without me engaging them in conversation. They'll continue arguing and won't back off until the debate has been beaten senseless and then re-up's on another thread. I've called them both lunatics :lol: But they're not bad people, they follow the sport well outside of Lomachenko, it actually makes for some very good boxing conversation and maybe the biggest kicker is that given how much stock and value they put into the amateur system, they both have a lot of appreciation for and can discuss RiGod at pretty good length :yep Only a select few other people will really do that that I can find here, @Chacal ... @JMP though I certainly wouldn't say he's a huge fan, @SJS20 could but I don't think he really cares for him too much. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didnt read the pst cause im monged but happy new year to one of my top 5 favourite posters. Consider yourself ranked among @Pabby @Lunny @DBerry and some other cunts


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> It's a really ridiculous meme for many obvious reasons, but it still makes me laugh like hell. :rofl
> 
> The "Who's More Skilled" topic is fucking legendary. :yep


T makes killer memes, nothing will EVER beat that Robinson crossed out meme though :rofl


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Chacal said:


> I didnt read the pst cause im monged but happy new year to one of my top 5 favourite posters. Consider yourself ranked among @Pabby @Lunny @DBerry and some other cunts


Thanks bro, you too



turbotime said:


> T makes killer memes, nothing will EVER beat that Robinson crossed out meme though :rofl


:rofl
@tezel8764


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

I don't think people's realized how much boxing's evolved since the Rigo days. Lomachenko is a modern fighter, Rigo is a throw back to the mid 2000's era of lesser nutritions and training tactics. The sport has evolved since 2004 and I don't think people is willing to admit it yet..............

Saying Rigo beats Lomachenko is like saying Lebron James is better than Andrew Wiggins. Wiggins is faster,smarter,bigger,and stronger.. a lot has changed in 10 years.

Compare a 2014 Dodge Charger with that piece of shit they call the 2006 Dodge Charger.
The 2014 Dodge Charger with the V6 Pen Engine is 10x more reliable and will kill the 2006 Charger and that's only 8 years difference......


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


>


Dude lost to Kirkland Laing for God's sake.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

FelixTrinidad said:


> I don't think people's realized how much boxing's evolved since the Rigo days. Lomachenko is a modern fighter, Rigo is a throw back to the mid 2000's era of lesser nutritions and training tactics. The sport has evolved since 2004 and I don't think people is willing to admit it yet..............
> 
> Saying Rigo beats Lomachenko is like saying Lebron James is better than Andrew Wiggins. Wiggins is faster,smarter,bigger,and stronger.. a lot has changed in 10 years.
> 
> ...


As you and I know, you're being stupid. But what has changed in that time is the scoring in amateur boxing, during Rigo's years the sport was close to the 'fencing' a lot of people still view it as. That probably has a lot to do with Rigo's point scoring mindset from the outside. In recent years to score points you've needed to land blows the judges consider 'forceful', as a result scores have been much lower and professional style boxers have done well in the amateurs (Lomachenko, Khytrov, Petrauskus etc.). Even some of the Cuban fighters (Ramirez) have adapted to the more pro oriented style and can fight on the inside now.


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Thanks bro, you too
> 
> :rofl
> 
> @*tezel8764*


Cheers :good.
*Who Am I?*

_- His team was a 6th seed. 
- He led his team past the top 4 best records. 
- He trailed a series 1-3. _


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Lomas going far


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## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

On AM record alone, Loma would be wasting his time fighting the usual warm-ups on the way to the championship.
He is as ready as he can be... Salido is a perfect test for Loma.

Orlando is at the perfect time for Loma to shine against... Just don't get caught because "Siri" ain't fucking around.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Hatesrats said:


> On AM record alone, Loma would be wasting his time fighting the usual warm-ups on the way to the championship.
> He is as ready as he can be... Salido is a perfect test for Loma.
> 
> Orlando is at the perfect time for Loma to shine against... Just don't get caught because "Siri" ain't fucking around.


I just watched Gamboa-Salido and I doubt that Salido is going to be able to hurt Lomachenko even if he does get on top at times. Unless Lomachenko is hiding a weak chin then my head tells me that it will be easy and a showcase for Lomachenko's skills.


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> I just watched Gamboa-Salido and I doubt that Salido is going to be able to hurt Lomachenko even if he does get on top at times. Unless Lomachenko is hiding a weak chin then my head tells me that it will be easy and a showcase for Lomachenko's skills.


Considering Salido is waaaay past his best IMHO & is prob a shadow of what he was against Gamboa you might be right.
Its up to Loma's chin tho you are correct... But overall I agree this is defo Loma's showcase to blow.

Fighter's like Salido are dangerous till the end shot or not... Don't harbor any glass against him.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Hatesrats said:


> Considering Salido is waaaay past his best IMHO & is prob a shadow of what he was against Gamboa you might be right.
> Its up to Loma's chin tho you are correct... But overall I agree this is defo Loma's showcase to blow.
> 
> Fighter's like Salido are dangerous till the end shot or not... Don't harbor any glass against him.


I think at the least, Salido will be at the highest level and shape he could realistically work himself up and into at this point. To say he'll be motivated is an extreme understatement.


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I think at the least, Salido will be at the highest level and shape he could realistically work himself up and into at this point. To say he'll be motivated is an extreme understatement.


Agreed :good
I'll be rooting for "Siri" no doubt, But I defo appreciate Lomachenko & understand that he is a beast.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

tezel8764 said:


> Cheers :good.
> *Who Am I?*
> 
> _- His team was a 6th seed.
> ...


Most skilled basketball player ever :ibutt Shit man, I havent seen an Olajuwon game since we shot the shit back in 2012. It's a blur right now.


----------



## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> IP permanent ban you bi-polar weirdo.


Yes because that's stopped people before. You have 4500 posts on here you ain't gonna just leave like that forever...now are you King Khan?


----------



## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Hatesrats said:


> Considering Salido is waaaay past his best IMHO & is prob a shadow of what he was against Gamboa you might be right.
> Its up to Loma's chin tho you are correct... But overall I agree this is defo Loma's showcase to blow.
> 
> Fighter's like Salido are dangerous till the end shot or not... Don't harbor any glass against him.


Hmmm. Fighters like Salido can get old or shop worn all of a sudden but I don't think he's slipped in any drastic way. After the Gamboa fight he dismantled JuanMa in his home country despite being the underdog twice the second time in quicker and more devastating fashion. In fact the only reason JuanMa got beaten so badly by Garcia, IMO, is because Salido basically ruined him. Hard nosed pressure fighters like him are the type who can ruin a guy mentally and physically. Look at the recent Cruz fight for instance as the fight went on Cruz offered less and less resistance and Salido just walked him down broke his jaw and his will.

Salido already started prep for this fight like a month ago and is always in great shape and always leaves it in the ring. Loma is a very good talent but this fight will be harder than any fight he's ever experienced. No number of 3 rounds, big gloves, headgear and anal refs can prepare you for 12 rounds with a guy like Salido.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Hmmm. Fighters like Salido can get old or shop worn all of a sudden but I don't think he's slipped in any drastic way. After the Gamboa fight he dismantled JuanMa in his home country despite being the underdog twice the second time in quicker and more devastating fashion. In fact the only reason JuanMa got beaten so badly by Garcia, IMO, is because Salido basically ruined him. Hard nosed pressure fighters like him are the type who can ruin a guy mentally and physically. Look at the recent Cruz fight for instance as the fight went on Cruz offered less and less resistance and Salido just walked him down broke his jaw and his will.
> 
> Salido already started prep for this fight like a month ago and is always in great shape and always leaves it in the ring. Loma is a very good talent but this fight will be harder than any fight he's ever experienced. No number of 3 rounds, big gloves, headgear and anal refs can prepare you for 12 rounds with a guy like Salido.


JuanMa is chinny, Cruz is chinny. Apparently Gamboa is chinny as well but Salido landed his best shots flush and didn't move him. I think this will be an easier fight for Loma the more I think about it. His hardest fights will remain Verdejo, Ramirez, Toledo and Selimov. Salido is good but not on that level, and I don't think he'll be able to hurt Lomachenko. Salido can try as hard as he wants but he is going to be punished in a showcase for Lomachenko's skills. I don't think Loma will need 12 rounds to deal with Salido.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> JuanMa is chinny, Cruz is chinny. Apparently Gamboa is chinny as well but Salido landed his best shots flush and didn't move him. I think this will be an easier fight for Loma the more I think about it. His hardest fights will remain Verdejo, Ramirez, Toledo and Selimov. Salido is good but not on that level, and I don't think he'll be able to hurt Lomachenko. Salido can try as hard as he wants but he is going to be punished in a showcase for Lomachenko's skills. I don't think Loma will need 12 rounds to deal with Salido.


Beat Salido, give Russell Jr his mando opportunity (if he wants it), unify titles with Gradovich and then see where Nonito(e) is at and what he's up to.


----------



## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

wouldnt say salido is "shot". He had some problems with mikey but he was turning it up nice until the stoppage. Looked real good blasting out the gay rican too. Still a legendary second fight.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> JuanMa is chinny, Cruz is chinny. Apparently Gamboa is chinny as well but Salido landed his best shots flush and didn't move him. I think this will be an easier fight for Loma the more I think about it. His hardest fights will remain Verdejo, Ramirez, Toledo and Selimov. Salido is good but not on that level, and I don't think he'll be able to hurt Lomachenko. Salido can try as hard as he wants but he is going to be punished in a showcase for Lomachenko's skills.* I don't think Loma will need 12 rounds to deal with Salido*.


I could reply to the 1001 stupid things you said in this post but there is no point. I'm having a 1 month ban bet with Gaul and I'll have one with you too.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Godamn everyone shitting on Salido dude's a fucking warrior and even if Loma wins with his superior skills Salido will give him the toughest fight of his life.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Beat Salido, give Russell Jr his mando opportunity (if he wants it), unify titles with Gradovich and then see where Nonito(e) is at and what he's up to.


I almost want to see that GRJ fight more than the Rigo fight at the moment, destroying GRJ will really show the fans what the deal is with Loma. Loma will have fought two reckless pressure fighters in his first two fights so to see him against a boxer will give everyone a different look at what he does.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Brnxhands said:


> wouldnt say salido is "shot". He had some problems with mikey but he was turning it up nice until the stoppage. Looked real good blasting out the gay rican too. Still a legendary second fight.


I thought he should'v taken out Cruz sooner tbh


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> I could reply to the 1001 stupid things you said in this post but there is no point.


The fuck are you on this forum for then?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Godamn everyone shitting on Salido dude's a fucking warrior and even if Loma wins with his superior skills Salido will give him the toughest fight of his life.


Not shitting on him at all, I've said how I believe Lomachenko wins.

This isn't a matter of IF Lomachenko wins... he fucking has to.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Godamn everyone shitting on Salido dude's a fucking warrior and even if Loma wins with his superior skills Salido will give him the toughest fight of his life.


Yeah, let's praise Salido for his ability to take a beating. I'll take notice of the guy giving him a beating. Salido isn't even going to be in the top 5 of his toughest fights in a boxing ring.


----------



## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> The fuck are you on this forum for then?


Why didn't you comment back on my ban bet? You don't have enough confidence in your boy?


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Why didn't you comment back on my ban bet? You don't have enough confidence in your boy?


We already have a ban bet dummy, make it a 3 month :hey


----------



## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> We already have a ban bet dummy, make it a 3 month :hey


No we didn't but sure 3 months.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> No we didn't but sure 3 months.


:deal
Make it start a day after the fight? I want to be able to hear how wrong you were :hey


----------



## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> :deal
> Make it start a day after the fight? I want to be able to hear how wrong you were :hey


Sure.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> I almost want to see that GRJ fight more than the Rigo fight at the moment, destroying GRJ will really show the fans what the deal is with Loma. Loma will have fought two reckless pressure fighters in his first two fights so to see him against a boxer will give everyone a different look at what he does.


 Well yeah, plus part of the whole stink being made here is that Russell Jr is the mandatory who was bypassed and 'earned' the title shot, so certainly he'd want to face the winner.... Right? :lol: Klimas also seems sort of eager to put Lomachenko in with his other fighter Evgeny Gradovich, the IBF titleholder. Unifications are always good, Lomachenko should look to become the undisputed champ at 126 lbs, which is something that rarely ever happens with the alphabet soup these days and clean out as much of the division as he can. If Mares beats Gonzales in the rematch, he can't get a crack at the WBC though. I don't believe Jhonny's arrangement with GBP is of the long term variety, more in the vein of what they did with Anselmo Moreno. He would almost certainly get free and go fight Lomachenko in a multi-strap unifer, he's even talked recently of wanting Garcia at 130.

On another note, Klimas feeling the need to remark that "the fans don't like this" in regards to Rigo's style and a potential fight gives me a bad feeling about the prospects of it.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Stop predicting KO losses in his future. :ibutt


:lol: I don't really see who else is left for Rigondeux to fight at 122lbs. He should be looking to move up to 126lbs where a few interesting match-ups can be made. Ponce De Leon would at least come to fight and I'm not sure Rigo has ever had to handle that kind of awkwardness before. Likewise, you've got the infallible Lomachenko, the undying Jhonny Gonzalez, who's had more comebacks than Frank Sinatra. And that Lionel Rose-looking motherfucker, Billy Dib. Okay, I may be joking with that last one.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> :lol: I don't really see who else is left for Rigondeux to fight at 122lbs. He should be looking to move up to 126lbs where a few interesting match-ups can be made. Ponce De Leon would at least come to fight and I'm not sure Rigo has ever had to handle that kind of awkwardness before. Likewise, you've got the *infallible Lomachenko*, the undying Jhonny Gonzalez, who's had more comebacks than Frank Sinatra. And that Lionel Rose-looking motherfucker, Billy Dib. Okay, I may be joking with that last one.


:lol:

Yeah man, there's nothing for him and on top of that he seems to really not want to move up to 126 without some horrendous catchweights or rehydration clauses involved, for which he's simply got no leverage in a business sense to demand. It's been rightly mentioned that Kiko Martinez or Vic Darchinyan could make for entertaining fights, but what do those really do for him aside from I suppose make him look more appealing to the casual audience? That's actually pretty important :think ... Leo Santa Cruz is obviously the guy, but he fights for basically another boxing league as far as a match being made is realistically concerned. I fear his pro career is going to be defined by that Donaire win, the value of which could steadily decrease over time.

Which reminds me @Chacal Kiko wants to fight Quigg, followed by a Carl Frampton rematch. Rigondeaux isn't even on his radar like that.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Rigo should fight my boy Mikey Garcia. Boom goes the dynamite.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> Yeah man, there's nothing for him and on top of that he seems to really not want to move up to 126 without some horrendous catchweights or rehydration clauses involved, for which he's simply got no leverage in a business sense to demand. It's been rightly mentioned that Kiko Martinez or Vic Darchinyan could make for entertaining fights, but what do those really do for him aside from I suppose make him look more appealing to the casual audience? That's actually pretty important :think ... Leo Santa Cruz is obviously the guy, but he fights for basically another boxing league as far as a match being made is realistically concerned. I fear his pro career is going to be defined by that Donaire win, the value of which could steadily decrease over time.
> 
> Which reminds me @Chacal Kiko wants to fight Quigg, followed by a Carl Frampton rematch. Rigondeaux isn't even on his radar like that.


Gonna keep my hopes up cause hte pictures of hyde and kiko's manager. Let's hope.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Rigo should fight my boy Mikey Garcia. Boom goes the dynamite.


It's a bad fight for Garcia's size (first and foremost), length, power and skill, but not unwinnable. Would really be something if Mikey found himself locked inside the Terrordome of explosive ATG footwork. There's no escape, but Rigo's always got one.



Chacal said:


> Gonna keep my hopes up cause hte pictures of hyde and kiko's manager. Let's hope.


:lol: 

Alright, we can do that.


----------



## Marlow (Jan 6, 2013)

What date is this scheduled for?


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Marlow said:


> What date is this scheduled for?


March 1st in San Antonio.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

I dig that Texas is really going off in boxnig always seems like the best crowds there and none of the bs judging like in Vegas. Anyone know what the main event will be?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> I think this will be an easier fight for Loma the more I think about it. His hardest fights will remain Verdejo, Ramirez, Toledo and Selimov. Salido is good but not on that level, and I don't think he'll be able to hurt Lomachenko. Salido can try as hard as he wants but he is going to be punished in a showcase for Lomachenko's skills. I don't think Loma will need 12 rounds to deal with Salido.


 Given the very top heavy (ATG stacked) nature of Sugar Ray Leonard's resume, I kind of wonder where a fanatic such as @PityTheFool would consider rating a beast like Andres Aldama amongst his career achievements? :think  Like to see more, but Aldama's left hook was nasty... He of course lost in the Final to Leonard in '76, but captured his own Gold medal in the following games in Moscow campaigning at welter.

Speaking of that as you know, CUBA's Gold haul alone is just fucking filthy. So many What If's in there had they been able to or chose to go professional:

3x - Teofilo Stevenson (Heavyweight)
3x - Felix Savon (Heavyweight)
2x - Guillermo Rigondeaux (Bantamweight)
2x - Angel Herrera (Featherweight/Lightweight)
2x - Hector Vinent (Light Welter)
2x - Ariel Hernandez (Middleweight)
2x - Mario Kindelán (Lightweight)

Then of course there's single-medal winners such as the aforementioned Aldama, Yuriorkis Gamboa, Joel Casamayor, Robeisy Ramirez amongst many others. 34 Gold Medals alone in total. Olympic boxing has been going on since 1904 and Cuba only started competing in it since when, 1960? That's not even to mention legends such Kid Gavilan, Jose Napoles, Luis Manuel Rodriguez or Kid Chocolate who were ATG pro's and painfully obviously so by any stretch of the imagination. @Kid Cubano @Rigondeaux Silly rich history there.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Can't wait to see Salido derail this train.


:deal


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Given the very top heavy (ATG stacked) nature of Sugar Ray Leonard's resume, I kind of wonder where a fanatic such as @PityTheFool would consider rating a beast like Andres Aldama amongst his career achievements? :think  Like to see more, but Aldama's left hook was nasty... He of course lost in the Final to Leonard in '76, but captured his own Gold medal in the following games in Moscow campaigning at welter.
> 
> Speaking of that as you know, CUBA's Gold haul alone is just fucking filthy. So many What If's in there had they been able to or chose to go professional:
> 
> ...


I'm trying to think off the top of my head who would've been the most likely US rep in Moscow.
You any idea mate?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> I'm trying to think off the top of my head who would've been the most likely US rep in Moscow.
> You any idea mate?


:lol:

Do I ever... He allegedly went 400-4 as an amateur and peaked out as a pro being considered no less than the #2 pound for pound fighter in the world. I mentioned him earlier in this thread. :yep


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Leonard's best wins

Hearns
Hagler
Aldama
Benitez
Duran
Kalule
@Pedderrs


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> He allegedly went 400-4 as an amateur and peaked out as a pro being considered no less than the #2 pound for pound fighter in the world. I mentioned him earlier in this thread.


No, Pryor's amateur record was 204 -16.
Yup, he was rated that highly - it's a pity Leonard was terrified of him.:bbb

I believe Don was considered #1 by some people for a short period of time.

Should've moved up in weight earlier but Leonard advised him not to do that.:fire

And look what happened.:sad2


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Leonard's best wins
> 
> Hearns
> Hagler
> ...


Fixed.

I've tried to find some information on Aldama's Pro Boxing career but it's virtually impossible. It's almost like...it didn't exist.

Edit: Ray would have stood Pryor on his head.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

I put Benitez over Duran actually given the circumstances. I know what went on with Duran, and I don't buy Benitez's. Fight wasn't really that close either (tho highly competitive) and he sure as hell didn't or shouldn't of needed that silly stoppage according to anyone. Not even Lora.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Fixed.
> 
> I've tried to find some information on Aldama's Pro Boxing career but it's virtually impossible. It's almost like...it didn't exist.
> 
> Edit: Ray would have stood Pryor on his head.


Would you be able to rate Floyd's JAB in a historical sense? :huh

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...The-VERSATILITY-Of-Floyd-s-Jab-And-Right-Hand


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> I put Benitez over Duran actually given the circumstances. I know what went on with Duran, and I don't buy Benitez's. Fight wasn't really that close either (tho highly competitive) and he sure as hell didn't or shouldn't of needed that silly stoppage according to anyone. Not even Lora.


Duran was #1 P4P when he stepped into the ring with Ray for their rematch in New Orleans. He looked in good shape, *he was performing well*, but he was still second best and was made to quit in the 8th. These are all facts, Hands. Everything else is speculation, rumour, and revisionist history. It's a tough pill to swallow for all of the purists and the die-hards who wanted to see the poster boy take a second spanking, but it never happened, and it was a result of Ray's adjustments and his own qualities as a fighter rather than some bullshit excuse about Duran not having enough time to get into shape.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> No, Pryor's amateur record was 204 -16.
> Yup, he was rated that highly - it's a pity Leonard was terrified of him.:bbb
> 
> I believe Don was considered #1 by some people for a short period of time.
> ...


Didnt Curry try and have Leonard removed from the HBO broadcast team for his fight with McCallum while he had lawsuit pending? :rofl

I don't know if its the budding Cuban nuthugger in me but when I see a guy like Pryor these days, my first inclination is to shake my head, pause the film and say, "No, this isn't right. This isn't good at all atsch :-("


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> when I see a guy like Pryor these days, my first inclination is to shake my head, pause the film and say, "No, this isn't right. This isn't good at all atsch :-("


Pryor wasn't right.

Pryor wasn't good.

Pryor was BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!:ibutt


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Duran was #1 [/URL] P4P when he stepped into the ring with Ray for their rematch in New Orleans. He looked in good shape, *he was performing well*, but he was still second best and was made to quit in the 8th. These are all facts, Hands. Everything else is speculation, rumour, and revisionist history. It's a tough pill to swallow for all of the purists and the die-hards who wanted to see the poster boy take a second spanking, but it never happened, and it was a result of Ray's adjustments and his own qualities as a fighter rather than some bullshit excuse about Duran not having enough time to get into shape.


I'm actually one to give Ray credit on that one, I'm just not convinced Duran was better on the night than Benitez, who while not on Duran's level of greatness was certainly one of the most talented fighters I've seen, obviously from a defensive point of view in particular. That's no egg to be easily cracked and I wonder where the hell he was rated P4P at the time himself.

Duran, Hearns and Hagler were all #1 P4P and people think they can fucking detract and make traction. Fuck that. :lol: Me and @PityTheFool have waged many forum wars on Leonard's behalf even though it's possible he's a supreme azzhole in person.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> No, Pryor's amateur record was 204 -16.
> Yup, he was rated that highly - it's a pity Leonard was terrified of him.:


Ah, the old jokes are the best.Time of year and all that.
@Hands of Iron ;I think this is your cue.
Tell 'em the one about Roger Stafford


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I'm actually one to give Ray credit on that one, I'm just not convinced Duran was better on the night than Benitez, who while not on Duran's level of greatness was certainly one of the most talented fighters I've seen, obviously from a defensive point of view in particular. That's no egg to be easily cracked and I wonder where the hell he was rated P4P at the time himself.
> 
> Duran, Hearns and Hagler were all #1 P4P and people think they can fucking detract and make traction. Fuck that. :lol: Me and @PityTheFool have waged many forum wars on Leonard's behalf even though it's possible he's a supreme azzhole in person.


Yeah but come on,that thread about ATG's in their prime and how they look now gives Ray a pass on anything.
The two pics look like they were taken a year apart max.:rofl


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> I wonder where the hell he was rated P4P at the time himself.


I know that he was #7 in 1977.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> Ah, the old jokes are the best.Time of year and all that.
> 
> @Hands of Iron ;I think this is your cue.
> Tell 'em the one about Roger Stafford


:lol:

Lester's just a jokester. There isn't anything I could teach him.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> Yeah but come on,that thread about ATG's in their prime and how they look now gives Ray a pass on anything.
> The two pics look like they were taken a year apart max.:rofl


:rofl

Collagen production and all that... Whiteboys don't seem to age nearly as nice. Must be devastating for you to lose all that melanin. Welcome to my world! :ibutt But am still young, fly and flashy. :deal Not rich though.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Given the very top heavy (ATG stacked) nature of Sugar Ray Leonard's resume, I kind of wonder where a fanatic such as @PityTheFool would consider rating a beast like Andres Aldama amongst his career achievements? :think  Like to see more, but Aldama's left hook was nasty... He of course lost in the Final to Leonard in '76, but captured his own Gold medal in the following games in Moscow campaigning at welter.
> 
> Speaking of that as you know, CUBA's Gold haul alone is just fucking filthy. So many What If's in there had they been able to or chose to go professional:
> 
> ...


Good post. Cuba is an example of genetics, good teaching (The Soviet School) and culture coming together to create a gold mine of sporting talent.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Duran was #1 P4P when he stepped into the ring with Ray for their rematch in New Orleans. He looked in good shape, *he was performing well*, but he was still second best and was made to quit in the 8th. These are all facts, Hands. Everything else is speculation, rumour, and revisionist history. It's a tough pill to swallow for all of the purists and the die-hards who wanted to see the poster boy take a second spanking, but it never happened, and it was a result of Ray's adjustments and his own qualities as a fighter rather than some bullshit excuse about Duran not having enough time to get into shape.


Duran ate all the pies and needed a poo.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> Good post. Cuba is an example of genetics, good teaching (The Soviet School) and culture coming together to create a gold mine of sporting talent.


Rigondeaux got double fucked with the failed defection attempt in 2007. It further delayed his start to a professional career and had Castro labeling him a traitor, effectively ending his boxing career immediately as far as representing Cuba, so no third Gold. The documentary filmmaker said he had the saddest face he'd ever seen when he first met him.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Duran ate all the pies and needed a poo.


Pachilles was one of my favourite posters from ESB. Hilarious.



> Duran is meant to be this tough, macho guy. But who else uses the 'i need a poo card' i need the toilet'? Only little girls looking for an excuse to get out of class


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Pachilles was one of my favourite posters from ESB. Hilarious.


:lol:

He didn't give one single fuck, did he? I love posters like that.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> He didn't give one single fuck, did he? I love posters like that.


I'm looking through his old posts now.

In a thread entitled: Better chin: Duran or Leonard? he replied with "Leonard had the tougher asshole". :lol:


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

:lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> I'm looking through his old posts now.
> 
> In a thread entitled: Better chin: Duran or Leonard? he replied with "Leonard had the tougher asshole". :lol:


:rofl fuckin hell



Pedderrs said:


> :lol:


:lol:

Lora is hipster as fuck but a beast nonetheless, gotta admit. He likes McCallum.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Ok guys...I have to keep CHB to under 10 posts, try and average out at 5 posts per day now lol

I would say something you should look out for which unfortunately I haven't mentioned enough, is Loma's ability to adapt to his opponent.

Gaibnazarov and Selimov 2 are good examples. 
Usually the structure of Loma's fights are: 1. Feel out your opponent and the main way of doing this is by pressing the action to see how they'd respond to your attack 2. Use what you learned about the way they respond in round 1 to go full throttle 3. Get on the back foot and ensure a points victory

ESPN'S PROSPECT OF THE YEAR:
http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/10224263/vasyl-lomachenko

- When I wrote 'avenged his only loss twice' which the media mention a lot, I included the WSB bout...but that is still is considered amateur so who cares..although if they had the bout in America, right now, it wouldn't be.

"Salido is going to make him look like a million dollars. It's not like [Lomachenko] does everything good. He does everything great -- speed, conditioning, excellent power, you can see him thinking in the ring. I can't see a flaw. He's flawless." - Carl Moretti (Professional Lomatard).

-----
In other Loma news, Loma's victim Oscar Valdez who is considered one of boxings top prospects moves to 8(8)-0 after this performance:


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

_"I want to make boxing history, and to do that there's only one way -- go fast and show everybody what I can do," Lomachenko said before the Ramirez fight. "I don't want to be like other fighters, fighting four- and six-round fights. That's nonsense. I don't need to be built."_

G.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> _"I want to make boxing history, and to do that there's only one way -- go fast and show everybody what I can do," Lomachenko said before the Ramirez fight. "I don't want to be like other fighters, fighting four- and six-round fights. That's nonsense. I don't need to be built."_
> 
> G.


It may sound G now but he's going to look silly when he takes the inevitable 10 count.

It's going to seriously fuck Gaul, breh.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> _"I want to make boxing history, and to do that there's only one way -- go fast and show everybody what I can do," Lomachenko said before the Ramirez fight. "I don't want to be like other fighters, fighting four- and six-round fights. That's nonsense. I don't need to be built."_
> 
> G.


:deal


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> It may sound G now but he's going to look silly when he takes the inevitable 10 count.
> 
> It's going to seriously fuck Gaul, breh.


You don't even know what Lomachenko is about, you need to learn


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

_"I don't want to earn peanuts fighting 6 round fights against nobodies. I'm not a young lad; I need the money now" _



> You don't even know what Lomachenko is about, you need to learn


Let's just say me and Lomachenko are at similar stages of our education.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)




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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> It may sound G now but he's going to look silly when he takes the inevitable 10 count.
> 
> It's going to seriously fuck Gaul, breh.


you honestly think Salido will beat Lomachenko mate? i know its fun to wind up major fans of a fighter, but Lomachenko looks the real deal to me. In all honesty Salido is the like the toughest baptism at world level he could have picked though :lol:


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> _"I don't want to earn peanuts fighting 6 round fights against nobodies. I'm not a young lad; I need the money now" _
> 
> Let's just say me and Lomachenko are at similar stages of our education.


:lol: Floyd, Ward and Rigo could make a case for that claim. Unless you're one of them then lol and no.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


>


Cool, just let me post videos of amateur failures such as Ali, Sugar Ray, Pernell, Lewis, DLH, Ward, Rigo etc.. solid argument you made.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> Cool, just let me post videos of amateur failures such as Ali, Sugar Ray, Pernell, Lewis, DLH, Ward, Rigo etc.. solid argument you made.


And at what ages did they turn professional, and how many fights did it take them to establish themselves as genuine world class fighters in the Pro game?


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> And at what ages did they turn professional, and how many fights did it take them to establish themselves as genuine world class fighters in the Pro game?


The best (Pernell, Rigo) were world class from the get go.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Duran, Hearns and Hagler were all #1


Gomez/Sanchez were a more deserving #1 in 1981.:hey

Ring's ratings always sucked.:blurp

On a side note, MdwC from ESB posted some old ratings - thought you might find it interesting:



> KO - 1981:
> 
> 1. Gomez
> 2. Leonard
> ...


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> The best (Pernell, Rigo) were world class from the get go.


Roy's dad was adamant and intent on moving him much slower than required. Had to break off with hin to really start doing anything.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Roy's dad was adamant and intent on moving him much slower than required. Had to break off with hin to really start doing anything.


Apparently he declined a fight with Norris:fire


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Roy's dad was adamant and intent on moving him much slower than required. Had to break off with hin to really start doing anything.


From what Roy says it sounds like he believed dad was holding him back on purpose because Big Roy didn't want little Roy to think he was the top dog. Strange relationship there.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> And at what ages did they turn professional, and how many fights did it take them to establish themselves as genuine world class fighters in the Pro game?


This. Lomachenko is 25 and should be treated like anybody around that age group, except while guys like Mikey Garcia were having professional bouts he was having amateur ones at a world level. According to Dealt With this is the highest level of boxing there is. He shouldn't be given any benefit of the doubt for a learning curve, a 16 year old Salido stepping into the professional ring should.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Apparently he declined a fight with Norris:fire


For me Norris can be said to be a poor man's Jones, which is no knock on Norris because he was very good. Anything Norris did however, Jones did better. Norris was too small for Jones anyway, he'd be KO'd badly.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> _"I want to make boxing history, and to do that there's only one way -- go fast and show everybody what I can do," Lomachenko said before the Ramirez fight. "I don't want to be like other fighters, fighting four- and six-round fights. That's nonsense. I don't need to be built."_
> 
> G.


I dig his boldness and watching Loma he's extremely talented but this is kinda silly of him. If he beats Salido what's he going to do? Defend his title against Journeymen? No he's going to have to face guys like Rigo, Garcia and Gamboa immediately. His career will be short lived.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> I dig his boldness and watching Loma he's extremely talented but this is kinda silly of him. If he beats Salido what's he going to do? Defend his title against Journeymen? No he's going to have to face guys like Rigo, Garcia and Gamboa immediately. His career will be short lived.


You should be feeling sorry for those guys who are going to have to face him when the uneducated fans (i.e. you) believe Loma is a novice with a lot to improve on. How are Garcia, Rigo and Gamboa going to deal with getting dominated by a guy with less than 10 fights? I'm a big fan of Gamboa and Rigo and I'm genuinely going to feel sorry for them if they end up with Lomachenko on the other side of the ring. Lomachenko will look his best against those guys, he's simply a better boxer. It's the fighters that could disrupt his rhythm a bit, not the stylists. 
And anyway there are guys like Gradovich, Dib, Donaire, Darchinyan, GRJ etc. that can matched up with Loma, every fight doesn't have to be a super fight. I mean look at Floyd's competition over recent years or Broner's title defences, you certainly don't have to fight the best guy too often if you don't want to.


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## Kid Cubano (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Given the very top heavy (ATG stacked) nature of Sugar Ray Leonard's resume, I kind of wonder where a fanatic such as @PityTheFool would consider rating a beast like Andres Aldama amongst his career achievements? :think  Like to see more, but Aldama's left hook was nasty... He of course lost in the Final to Leonard in '76, but captured his own Gold medal in the following games in Moscow campaigning at welter.
> 
> Speaking of that as you know, CUBA's Gold haul alone is just fucking filthy. So many What If's in there had they been able to or chose to go professional:
> 
> ...


Good post.
Don't forget Adolfo Horta,Jorge Hernandez,Roberto Balado...
A long list.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> I dig his boldness and watching Loma he's extremely talented but this is kinda silly of him. If he beats Salido what's he going to do? Defend his title against Journeymen? No he's going to have to face guys like Rigo, Garcia and Gamboa immediately. His career will be short lived.


He'll also make a shitload of money in a very short time. He can retire at 27, if that's what he wants.

Could be some logic there.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> From what Roy says it sounds like he believed dad was holding him back on purpose because Big Roy didn't want little Roy to think he was the top dog. Strange relationship there.


Vasyl and his seem to be on the same page with the same sort of goals in mind. I DKSA about Rigo's dad aside from that he's disowned him for leaving the country. His mom passed away right around the time he fought Cordoba and he obviously wasn't given permission to attend the funeral, I think it had a relevant impact on the performance.



Kid Cubano said:


> Good post.
> Don't forget Adolfo Horta,Jorge Hernandez,Roberto Balado...
> A long list.


Yeah, some of those guys are or were running gyms on behalf of the government's boxing commission, to pass down knowledge and teach technique and skills. I know Vinent is one of the head trainers at a Havana gym where they pluck the little 8-12 yrs old ones to assess talent. The culture is sort of crazy :lol: I can't comprehend the life and childhood some of these kids have. That's the life of most boxers who go on to be successful, but in Cuba it's obviously more forcibly encouraged of them which makes it different, less of a free willed choice.

"We can say with total certainty that in the farthest corner of Cuba if there's a talented boxer we know about him and are following his progress so that maybe one day he might join our national team." -- Alberto Puig


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> You should be feeling sorry for those guys who are going to have to face him when the uneducated fans (i.e. you) believe Loma is a novice with a lot to improve on.


Lomachenko is a novice by definition. It's non-debatable. Whilst there have been very successful transitions from Amateur Boxing to Professional Boxing in the past, there have also been those who have failed to live up to the dizzy heights they established with the head guard.

Jorge Luis Gonzalez was an accomplished Cuban Amateur who defeated both Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis en route to winning the 1987 Pan American Games. All of that counted for absolutely nothing once he turned Professional though, and even despite being brought along slowly he never came close to achieving in the Pro ranks. An old, washed-up Riddick Bowe destroyed him in 6 when the two met in '95. The Pan American Games of '87 was a distant memory.

Lomachenko may succeed, he may not, but there's little to no basis at this point to consider him anything other than a promising prospect who could potentially win World Titles as a Professional. He's promising; he's not infallible.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Lomachenko is a novice by definition. It's non-debatable. Whilst there have been very successful transitions from Amateur Boxing to Professional Boxing in the past, there have also been those who have failed to live up to the dizzy heights they established with the head guard.
> 
> Jorge Luis Gonzalez was an accomplished Cuban Amateur who defeated both Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis en route to winning the 1987 Pan American Games. All of that counted for absolutely nothing once he turned Professional though, and even despite being brought along slowly he never came close to achieving in the Pro ranks. An old, washed-up Riddick Bowe destroyed him in 6 when the two met in '95. The Pan American Games of '87 was a distant memory.
> 
> Lomachenko may succeed, he may not, but there's little to no basis at this point to consider him anything other than a promising prospect who could potentially win World Titles as a Professional. He's promising; he's not infallible.


Cuban boxing is nothing like what Lomachenko is bringing with him. He will succeed, mark my words. I've seen him fight and deal with every style, he can do everything in any style. He is the only complete fighter I've ever seen.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Lomachenko is a novice by definition. It's non-debatable. Whilst there have been very successful transitions from Amateur Boxing to Professional Boxing in the past, there have also been those who have failed to live up to the dizzy heights they established with the head guard.
> 
> Jorge Luis Gonzalez was an accomplished Cuban Amateur who defeated both Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis en route to winning the 1987 Pan American Games. All of that counted for absolutely nothing once he turned Professional though, and even despite being brought along slowly he never came close to achieving in the Pro ranks. *An old, washed-up Riddick Bowe* destroyed him in 6 when the two met *in '95*. The Pan American Games of '87 was a distant memory.
> 
> Lomachenko may succeed, he may not, but there's little to no basis at this point to consider him anything other than a promising prospect who could potentially win World Titles as a Professional. He's promising; he's not infallible.


:verysad

Very unfortunate case.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> Cuban boxing is nothing like what Lomachenko is bringing with him. He will succeed, mark my words. I've seen him fight and deal with every style, he can do everything in any style. He is the only complete fighter I've ever seen.


Have you watched him take a right hand from Mikey Garcia? Have you seen him fight 12 3 minute rounds against an experienced Professional? Don't talk to me about sparring. Amir Khan has gone the distance with Manny Pacquiao several hundred times in sparring; never on a Saturday evening at the MGM Grand.



> Very unfortunate case.


It punctuates the point that even a woeful version of Riddick Bowe still had more than enough to crush Gonzalez in the Pro ranks. Lomachenko's amateur pedigree helps provide a platform for him to build on, and it gives him the recognition to be fast-tracked, but it does not guarantee victory.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Have you watched him take a right hand from Mikey Garcia? Have you seen him fight 12 3 minute rounds against an experienced Professional? Don't talk to me about sparring. Amir Khan has gone the distance with Manny Pacquiao several hundred times in sparring; never on a Saturday evening at the MGM Grand.


Amir Khan was dropped hard as an amateur and his style tells you that he can't take a punch. Lomachenko's style tells us he has confidence in his chin, Lomachenko fighting natural 140lb fighters up to 6ft tall tells us he has a chin, beating middleweights up in sparring tells us he has a chin or at least confidence in his chin, seeing him fight Ramirez, Verdejo, Valdez, Toledo, Selimov, Bashenov etc. tells us he can take a punch. You don't fight on the level he has for that many years, fighting naturally bigger guys, in that aggressive style on the inside, without having at least a good chin. If you can't recognise that then your bad. He's been more professional than 99% of professionals for years now, I don't give a fighter any extra respect because he's 'pro'.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> Amir Khan was dropped hard as an amateur and his style tells you that he can't take a punch. Lomachenko's style tells us he has confidence in his chin, Lomachenko fighting natural 140lb fighters up to 6ft tall tells us he has a chin, beating middleweights up in sparring tells us he has a chin or at least confidence in his chin, *seeing him fight Ramirez, Verdejo, Valdez, Toledo, Selimov, Bashenov etc. tells us he can take a punch.* You don't fight on the level he has for that many years, fighting naturally bigger guys, in that aggressive style on the inside, without having at least a good chin. If you can't recognise that then your bad. He's been more professional than 99% of professionals for years now, I don't give a fighter any extra respect because he's 'pro'.


You do acknowledge that Amateur Boxing and Professional Boxing are two different sports? You're fully aware of this? You realise the fighters don't just wear the head guards to look pretty; it makes it easier to weather your opponents punches and to avoid being cut. You realise taking shots from Toledo for 3 rounds is completely different to taking Mikey Garcia's shots for 12 rounds? There's a difference between 10 oz gloves and 8 oz gloves. This is all filtering?


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> You do acknowledge that Amateur Boxing and Professional Boxing are two different sports? You're fully aware of this? You realise the fighters don't just wear the head guards to look pretty; it makes it easier to weather your opponents punches and to avoid being cut. You realise taking shots from Toledo for 3 rounds is completely different to taking Mikey Garcia's shots for 12 rounds? There's a difference between 10 oz gloves and 8 oz gloves. This is all filtering?


The headgear increases the chance of cuts and also the chance of concussion. The reason why the headgear is gone now is because of that fact, without it there is less chance of concussion. Pro boxing is different, it's slower paced, the best don't have to fight the best, you can pay your way to a title shot, you can knock out an overmatched bum to get hyped up by the fans, and you only have to fight once every few months. I'm not sold on Garcia's power at this point anyway, and Toledo is a much naturally bigger man. And I don't even really consider 'professional' boxing a real sport tbh, it's more entertainment in the same way professional wrestling is entertainment. At least we have Soviet and Cuban fighters turning pro more often now to make it closer to being a proper international sport. Shame about the politics and 20 belts for each division though.


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## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Lomachenko is a novice by definition. It's non-debatable. Whilst there have been very successful transitions from Amateur Boxing to Professional Boxing in the past, there have also been those who have failed to live up to the dizzy heights they established with the head guard.
> 
> Jorge Luis Gonzalez was an accomplished Cuban Amateur who defeated both Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis en route to winning the 1987 Pan American Games. All of that counted for absolutely nothing once he turned Professional though, and even despite being brought along slowly he never came close to achieving in the Pro ranks.* An old, washed-up Riddick Bowe *destroyed him in 6 when the two met in '95. The Pan American Games of '87 was a distant memory.
> 
> Lomachenko may succeed, he may not, but there's little to no basis at this point to consider him anything other than a promising prospect who could potentially win World Titles as a Professional. He's promising; he's not infallible.


Disagree with that, it was one of Bowe's best performances & the last time he looked good.

Bowe hated Gonzalez with a passion & apparently trained really hard for that fight.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> The headgear increases the chance of cuts and also the chance of concussion. The reason why the headgear is gone now is because of that fact, without it there is less chance of concussion. Pro boxing is different, it's slower paced, the best don't have to fight the best, you can pay your way to a title shot, you can knock out an overmatched bum to get hyped up by the fans, and you only have to fight once every few months. I'm not sold on Garcia's power at this point anyway, and Toledo is a much naturally bigger man. *And I don't even really consider 'professional' boxing a real sport tbh, it's more entertainment in the same way professional wrestling is entertainment. *At least we have Soviet and Cuban fighters turning pro more often now to make it closer to being a proper international sport. Shame about the politics and 20 belts for each division though.


Is that why you're so confident of Lomachenko's sucess? You think it's all predetermined like Hulk Hogan-Andre The Giant was at Wrestlemania 3?



DrMo said:


> Disagree with that, it was one of Bowe's best performances & the last time he looked good.
> 
> Bowe hated Gonzalez with a passion & apparently trained really hard for that fight.


At least that's what they were saying on Legendary Nights, but Bowe had weighed less for his previous two titles defenses against Donald and Hide. I don't really think it was an issue of training or weight at that time, Riddick Bowe just wasn't the same. I'm sure he trained for Holyfield III and Golota II, two fights in which he looked physically very good in, but the snap in his punches had gone and so had the technique. Nah, anything post '93 was quite poor from Bowe I thought. He could get away with it against Gonzalez who just wasn't very good. A good amateur, poor Pro.


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## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> At least that's what they were saying on Legendary Nights but Bowe had weighed less for his previous two titles defenses against Donald and Hide. I don't really think it was an issue of training or weight at that time, Riddick Bowe just wasn't the same. I'm sure he trained for Holyfield III and Golota II, two fights in which he looked physically very good in, but the snap in his punches had gone and so had the technique. Nah, anything post '93 was quite poor from Bowe I thought. He could get away with it against Gonzalez who just wasn't very good. A good amateur, poor Pro.


I'm sure you know Bowe used diuretics for Golata II & looked truly awful. I cant even rewatch either of the Golata fights, just horrible :-(

The beef with Gonzalez was real, just look at the press conferences & build-up. Bowe was comparatively sharp vs Gonzales compared to, say Holy III or Hide.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Is that why you're so confident of Lomachenko's sucess? You think it's all predetermined like Hulk Hogan-Andre The Giant was at Wrestlemania 3?


No, it's because as I said I know boxing and Lomachenko is the most complete fighter I've ever seen.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

DrMo said:


> *I'm sure you know Bowe used diuretics for Golata II* & looked truly awful. I cant even rewatch either of the Golata fights, just horrible :-(


Source?

And if you're having me believe Bowe was shot for Holyfield III but not against Gonzalez, then what happened in that period of 5 months that finished Bowe off? Did he diuretics for Holyfield too?


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## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Source?


I cant be arsed to dig around for one, I thought it was common knowledge.

Edit. No, dunno why you infer that from my post. Bowe looked better vs Gonzalez than he did vs Holy III or Hide is all I'm saying


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

DrMo said:


> I cant be arsed to dig around for one


I'm struggling to find any sources, that's all.



> Edit. No, dunno why you infer that from my post. Bowe looked better vs Gonzalez than he did vs Holy III or Hide is all I'm saying


And I don't disagree with you, but you don't become a spent force over the period of 5 months in the gym. I think Gonzalez's lack of quality probably flattered Bowe, but he was still old and washed up.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

@Pedderrs is right on the money here. Sugar Ray Seales, Donald Curry, Henry Tillman, Michael Dokes the list goes on and on. I remember John Garfield talking about one fighter, name escapes me, had over 500 wins as an amateur IIRC less than 20 losses and his pro record was something like 16-6 and never got anywhere. It happens. Loma has huge expectations on him and is getting moved along VERY fast and he'll soon realise why most pro's move along slowly at the start.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> The *headgear increases the chance of cuts* and also the chance of concussion. The reason why the headgear is gone now is because of that fact, without it there is less chance of concussion. Pro boxing is different, it's slower paced, the best don't have to fight the best, you can pay your way to a title shot, you can knock out an overmatched bum to get hyped up by the fans, and you only have to fight once every few months. I'm not sold on Garcia's power at this point anyway, and Toledo is a much naturally bigger man. And I don't even really consider 'professional' boxing a real sport tbh, it's more entertainment in the same way professional wrestling is entertainment. At least we have Soviet and Cuban fighters turning pro more often now to make it closer to being a proper international sport. Shame about the politics and 20 belts for each division though.


:lol:


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## conradically (Jul 12, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> *The headgear increases the chance of cuts and also the chance of concussion*. The reason why the headgear is gone now is because of that fact, without it there is less chance of concussion. Pro boxing is different, it's slower paced, the best don't have to fight the best, you can pay your way to a title shot, you can knock out an overmatched bum to get hyped up by the fans, and you only have to fight once every few months. I'm not sold on Garcia's power at this point anyway, and Toledo is a much naturally bigger man. And I don't even really consider 'professional' boxing a real sport tbh, it's more entertainment in the same way professional wrestling is entertainment. At least we have Soviet and Cuban fighters turning pro more often now to make it closer to being a proper international sport. Shame about the politics and 20 belts for each division though.


As was shown years ago by Yoryak in the Soviet Sports Review, 1983.


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## Liu Kang (May 23, 2013)

Liu Kang fights to the death without any form of protection. Liu Kang defeated Shao Kahn. Liu Kang's girth is unparalleled.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Liu Kang said:


> Liu Kang fights to the death without any form of protection. Liu Kang defeated Shao Kahn. Liu Kang's girth is unparalleled.


You have a tiny dick, and you scream like a girl. Now get out of this thread and fuck off. You're not even p4p in the Netherrealm. You got your neck snapped like a twig against Quan Chi and Shao Khan in Deception or something.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> The headgear increases the chance of cuts and also the chance of concussion. The reason why the headgear is gone now is because of that fact, without it there is less chance of concussion. Pro boxing is different, it's slower paced, the best don't have to fight the best, you can pay your way to a title shot, you can knock out an overmatched bum to get hyped up by the fans, and you only have to fight once every few months. I'm not sold on Garcia's power at this point anyway, and Toledo is a much naturally bigger man. And I don't even really consider 'professional' boxing a real sport tbh, it's more entertainment in the same way professional wrestling is entertainment. At least we have Soviet and Cuban fighters turning pro more often now to make it closer to being a proper international sport. Shame about the politics and 20 belts for each division though.


:lol::roflatsch


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

@Pedderrs You've disregarded everything I've written on the introduction post in historical 'what fight did you watch' thread. I tagged you in that post.

You're coming up with shit bankrupt arguments that only the retarded ones use: 
'What about Odlanier Solis? Jorge Luis Gonzalez?'
A lot of the top olympians who turned out to be good pros were still developing as fighters and even physically. Vasyl at 25, is complete in terms of his development as a fighter, Rigo is complete with his style, a style that he kept since the amateurs and everyone now is calling him an ATG in terms of H2H ability, which he is. There really isn't anything else to learn other than an adaptation over 12 rounds. He's shown so far that he's even more shrewd than Rigondeaux. Rigo has nothing else to learn either. He's sticking to his style and that's it.

I don't know what you meant by 'Don't talk to me about sparring', but this is raised to show that Vasyl is being put through his paces over 15 rounds, against middleweights. So you shouldn't fear about his ability to last 12 rounds (one reason why top amateurs may end up not so good)..he's known for his athleticism and so he's a sure bet to not suffer from Gasnelo-ism. 
Amir Khan was able to succeed in amateurs because he had that style which enabled him to without taking too many shots as dealt mentioned. His style is such that he'd outbox any welterweight today other than Mayweather and Pac, unless he gets caught on the chin. But Vasyl is a different animal. Vasyl has a pro style as it is.

What you did straight after that was just run away to a new point, and your point actually highlighted Selimov and Bashenov&#8230;two guys that Loma fought without headgear, over 5 rounds, Selimov looks like a future world champ in pros. We recognise the difference, and Loma's opponents certainly do hence why Loma, who already is a big puncher, would get many KO's in pros..like I said, rumour has it that Ramirez is still rolling around today from the bodyshot KO. He has been cited across different parts of the globe, rolling. Regardless, Loma has shown that he has taken big shots by natural 140lbers, sure it's with padded gloves but he has not been rocked whatsoever, there's just been no sign of it..it's safe to say he should have a good chin..(another reason why top amateurs may end up not so good).

Pro's can be a bit shit, hence why Adrien 'Nicca I aint worried bout nothing' Broner is still worrying today after being made Maidana's bitch&#8230;Adrien being a '3 weight world champion' and Maidana being a bog standard, slow plodding B class fighter. There are some seriously shit fighters in boxing today and they haven't been able to reach the heights of Olympics as an amateur.

You can't lump Loma with the Audley Harrison's etc. 
You have to not be a pussy. Just piece things together and realise Lomachenko gonna whoop anybodies ass.

Headgear issue: http://www.clinicalneurologynews.co...-boxers/6cf8addfa859c54a8bc957d95e42e0c5.html


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> :lol:


Obviously meant to be decrease


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Anyone understand this? It's a 50 minute interview of Vasyl in December..


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

THE TITLE IS WORTH NOTHING!

Salido beat Cruz for a vacant title that ain't worth SHIT.

Not worth getting annoyed about.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> THE TITLE IS WORTH NOTHING!
> 
> Salido beat Cruz for a vacant title that ain't worth SHIT.
> 
> Not worth getting annoyed about.


A world title won from Salido is pretty big in itself, but in your second pro fight..is colossal


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> A world title won from Salido is pretty big in itself, but in your second pro fight..is colossal


Beating a top ten fighter, a fading one but a dangerous one, in your 2nd pro fight is very, very commendable indeed.

The title means nothing. Far less than Muangsurin beating Fernandez did anyway (he beat Lion Furuyama in his 2nd pro fight, who was as good a contender as Salido is now)

Fidel Labarba (Gold medalist) was matched extremely hard in his first few fights.

I really look forward to seeing Lomachenko this year. Gonna' be very, very interesting stuff and as a fan since his first gold I really hope to see him do well.

Those claiming he's some sort of incredible anomaly for beating Salido (assuming he does it) and that he's a guaranteed ATG are not on my good side though.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Beating a top ten fighter, a fading one but a dangerous one, in your 2nd pro fight is very, very commendable indeed.
> 
> The title means nothing. Far less than Muangsurin beating Fernandez did anyway (he beat Lion Furuyama in his 2nd pro fight, who was as good a contender as Salido is now)
> 
> ...


This is a dangerous game you're playing.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Beating a top ten fighter, a fading one but a dangerous one, in your 2nd pro fight is very, very commendable indeed.
> 
> The title means nothing. Far less than Muangsurin beating Fernandez did anyway (he beat Lion Furuyama in his 2nd pro fight, who was as good a contender as Salido is now)
> 
> ...


When discussing Lomachenko, I can't really say much without using assumptions i.e 'it's fair to say he has very good power', 'its fair to assume he has a good chin', 'it's fair to say he doesn't suffer from Gasnelo-ism'. I acknowledge they're assumptions and use it as the basis for my opinion. If it turns out that he has a shit chin, then obviously the position I entertain is somewhat in jeopardy, however given the evidence from his career I'd prefer to say innocent till proven guilty.

Salido is most probably going to give Lomachenko the toughest fight of his career because of the circumstances that Loma is fighting him in. However, a point here is that a Lomachenko who has his pacing down and is settled as a 12 round fighter would TKO any version of Salido (obviously I can't say such a thing if he has a shit chin and has Gasnelo-ism).

Fidel is a badass and really proved his worth. Salido is no ATG in McLarnin who beats up big guys as a little'un (that's more Loma-esque :lol: ), but I feel he's only just on the way down and styles make fights as Loma will in many occasions throughout the fight brutally come foward the way Salido wants.

I haven't seen Perico Fernandez's fights so I can't make a statement on how good he is, but a world record is a world record which is precisely what Loma wanted...if it was just one titleholder and it was Abner Mares for example, Loma would get the fight with Abner. What I wanted is for Loma to get his pacing down against contender level fighters and then fight the big boys as I'd much rather see Loma fighting the best he can, against the big boys.

Given my basic assumptions, and with his concept of pacing down, I see him as I do Rigondeaux, ATG in terms of H2H ability. The only difference is Rigo will struggle to get an ATG resume, whereas Lomachenko won't as he can go up to 140lbs by the end of his career and beat everyone along the way. I don't see him losing to anybody.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> When discussing Lomachenko, I can't really say much without using assumptions


That's right, you can't. Your incessant ramblings about Lomanchenko being the second coming of Jesus are based solely on assumption, and yet you still find it impossible to accept differing views and opinions when it comes to Lomanchenko, The Great.

One has tried. There is no blueprint.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> That's right, you can't. Your incessant ramblings about Lomanchenko being the second coming of Jesus are based solely on assumption, and yet you still find it impossible to accept differing views and opinions when it comes to Lomanchenko, The Great.
> 
> One has tried. There is no blueprint.


Yeah, I don't accept a differing viewpoint. Well I have made these assumptions based on the evidence I have on Loma and his amateur, WSB career up to date but from your bias position and a closed mind, you immediately cut this out..you just want to disagree because you're bored and want to be entertained, or you're just a dumbass. These are not empty assumptions. We make a lot of assumptions when talking hypothetical matchups, it's what comes with the territory of discussing boxing.

Khytrov is a monstrous puncher who has just turned pro...shall I say 'well I don't know for sure if he is going to have good punching power in the pro ranks :3 ' hell no. You are taking a very blind approach as if to say the amateurs doesn't mean shit, it's far too simplistic.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

> We make a lot of assumptions when talking hypothetical matchups, it's what comes with the territory of discussing boxing.


You have so far predicted that Lomachenko will beat absolutely everybody in or around his weight class. You have offered little to no objective analysis of these potential opponents though, and from what I can tell you fail to acknowledge that there are game-changing differences between Amateur Boxing & Professional Boxing. You seem to think they are the same thing, and that's the one fatal flaw in your reasoning for why Lomachenko is a shoo-in for an ATG & HOF career.



> Khytrov is a monstrous puncher who has just turned pro...shall I say 'well I don't know for sure if he is going to have good punching power in the pro ranks :3 ' hell no. You are taking a very blind approach as if to say the amateurs doesn't mean shit, it's far too simplistic.


Lomachenko is not a complete novice when it comes to punching people in the face, but he is a complete novice when it comes to fighting 12 3 minute rounds against talented & experienced Professional Fighters without the use of a head guard. A complete novice. So, considering that he is a complete novice, there is little basis for why I should take sweeping statements like "Lomanchenko will beat everybody in the World" seriously.


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Lomachenko is tbe. He's the greatest athlete in the world never mind boxer.


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Yeah, I don't accept a differing viewpoint. Well I have made these assumptions based on the evidence I have on Loma and his amateur, WSB career up to date but from your bias position and a closed mind, you immediately cut this out..you just want to disagree because you're bored and want to be entertained, or you're just a dumbass. These are not empty assumptions. We make a lot of assumptions when talking hypothetical matchups, it's what comes with the territory of discussing boxing.
> 
> Khytrov is a monstrous puncher who has just turned pro...shall I say 'well I don't know for sure if he is going to have good punching power in the pro ranks :3 ' hell no. You are taking a very blind approach as if to say the amateurs doesn't mean shit, it's far too simplistic.


No, what he's saying is that Loma hasn't proved his toughness over 12 rounds with smaller gloves


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> You have so far predicted that Lomachenko will beat absolutely everybody in or around his weight class. You have offered little to no objective analysis of these potential opponents though, and from what I can tell you fail to acknowledge that there are game-changing differences between Amateur Boxing & Professional Boxing. You seem to think they are the same thing, and that's the one fatal flaw in your reasoning for why Lomachenko is a shoo-in for an ATG & HOF career.
> Lomachenko is not a complete novice when it comes to punching people in the face, but he is a complete novice when it comes to fighting 12 3 minute rounds against talented & experienced Professional Fighters without the use of a head guard. A complete novice. So, considering that he is a complete novice, there is little basis for why I should take sweeping statements like "Lomanchenko will beat everybody in the World" seriously.


So was Fidel LaBarba, so was Floyd Mayweather before he fought Genaro...they were novices in the way you put it, but they still had the goods. You're having issue with me being the guy who would say 'oh look, Fidel is the guy who can get a draw within just 4 fights against a top 50 ATG in McLarnin'. This was a reality. I believe I know enough about Lomachenko to make judgements with confidence.

You're narrowing your mind further and further just to be correct 'oh but they're not talented&#8230;oh wait, they're not experienced either' so sure, you ended up thus defining him completely as a 'complete novice' and would not allow for any other interpretation, so you group him with any other debutant in the world which removes any discussion, just so you can play a word game.

Eoghan said in your defence 'No, what he's saying is that Loma hasn't proved his toughness over 12 rounds with smaller gloves' 
...Well I obviously agree but my whole discussion of late was pointing towards the assumptions I made which I believe will be true. People even doubted his punching power, but they didn't watch Loma's fights as much as I did. It's on certain pillars and assumptions that a lot of boxing discussions take place.

I haven't broken down Loma vs others on this thread per say, but believe me I've actually broken down Lomachenko vs quite a lot of fighters, the most recent being Rigondeaux when someone asked what would Loma bring, as I copy and past from another post:


Spoiler



I told you what he would bring and what he would do already. I'll try and keep this simple too:

Watch his amateur fights, Lomachenko doesn't operate so much with the jab and hasn't against counterpunchers in the amateurs either.

- Intelligent pressure getting this fight on the inside in closer range, Loma would be pretty damn relentless with this.

- Punch accuracy is going to be something you'll notice he'll have when making his way in - he can do this with just one punch.

- Punching power.

- A main difference between Lomachenko and other fighters is that he has incredible counter punching abilities and very good defense when counter punching - furthermore his ability to switch from a danger zone to counter punching is a great sight to see. For short moments you're actually going to see a role reversal of Lomachenko being the counter puncher and Rigondeaux on the offense. This then takes the fight more towards the inside-mid range which is Lomachenko's home turf .

- Rigo will have issues with interpreting Loma's feints + Loma's very good at dealing with short spurts of onslaughts courtesy of his footwork. This does lead me to my next point.

The angle at which Lomachenko attacks is far less linear. It is versatile and will accommodate for Rigo's running style, so we won't really be seeing very close range great combinations by Lomachenko.

If Rigo fights at medium range, he's asking to get fucked. Quite a fair amount of the Rigo's success against was actually mid range. That aint going to happen with Lomachenko.

The only fighters I see Lomachenko losing to are huge, relentless pressure dudes who can just overwhelm, but you'd have to be at least 140-147lbs and elite to be able to do that.

When Rigo is on the defensive, he has to realise when he comes back in immediately, Lomachenko's defense has always proven to be gold.

One good asset Rigo has is his bodyshots off the back foot.

Rigondeaux is considered a guy with ATG ablity and IMO Top 2 or Top 3 all time ability as a bantamweight. The fact that Lomachenko does seem like a viable opponent to beat him should thus not mean everyone should be up in arms about Lomachenko being the most complete fighter someones seen. This fight for me will not be about overrating Lomachenko but underestimating Rigondeaux.


Although I would like to add that, as I have mentioned before, Rigo's opponent from the ams Mammadov had in a quasi-way a similar style to Loma, Mammadov had 3 fights and went 1-2 against Rigo, with the final match actually being a victory for Mammadov..by this time Rigo had developed into the defensive fighter he is today whereas when Mammadov lost, Rigo was surprisingly more 'entertaining' as they like to say. Loma is a different animal to Mammadov.

I acknowledged all along the way there are differences..i.e heart, chin, gasnelo-ism, power, any strategic differences over 12 rounds rather than just 3 (which isn't a big deal particularly for a complete fighter), so with that acknowledgement, I decided to form those assumptions based on evidence I have of Loma. I actually acknowledged these things many times over and it was actually a focal point for my discussions on this thread :lol: 'you fail at this, you fail at that'..dude you've failed with reading comprehension throughout the whole thread.

"_I don't want to be like other fighters, fighting four- and six-round fights. That's nonsense. I don't need to be built._" - Lomachenko


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> So was Fidel LaBarba, so was Floyd Mayweather before he fought Genaro...they were novices in the way you put it, but they still had the goods. You're having issue with me being the guy who would say 'oh look, Fidel is the guy who can get a draw within just 4 fights against a top 50 ATG in McLarnin'. This was a reality. I believe I know enough about Lomachenko to make judgements with confidence.
> 
> You're narrowing your mind further and further just to be correct 'oh but they're not talented&#8230;oh wait, they're not experienced either' so sure, you ended up thus defining him completely as a 'complete novice' and would not allow for any other interpretation, so you group him with any other debutant in the world which removes any discussion, just so you can play a word game.
> 
> ...


I've just had an epiphany.

You're right. You're absolutely fuckin' right, breh. Lomachenko has already proved himself to be the best Amateur Boxer of all time so who's going to stop him becoming the best in the Professional ranks too? There is simply no one. Athleticism, Power, Good-looks; the whole shebang. One has tried. There is no blueprint.

Scribble me down as the newest Lomatard.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

What's more prestigious, the World Series Boxing or Prizefighter?


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## NoNeck (Jun 7, 2013)

It's not that big of a deal because it's not really his second fight. He already won the semi-pro tournament (which counts as professional) against good comp and with basically pro rules. Loma already has as much or more experience than guys like Spadafora who got title shots without really doing anything.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Loma and his unearned title shot


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## conradically (Jul 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> So was Fidel LaBarba, so was Floyd Mayweather before he fought Genaro...they were novices in the way you put it, but they still had the goods. You're having issue with me being the guy who would say 'oh look, Fidel is the guy who can get a draw within just 4 fights against a top 50 ATG in McLarnin'. This was a reality. I believe I know enough about Lomachenko to make judgements with confidence.
> 
> You're narrowing your mind further and further just to be correct 'oh but they're not talented&#8230;oh wait, they're not experienced either' so sure, you ended up thus defining him completely as a 'complete novice' and would not allow for any other interpretation, so you group him with any other debutant in the world which removes any discussion, just so you can play a word game.
> 
> ...


your position is slightly more moderate than dealt_with, and then people tend to assume both of you hold the same opinion.

But you're still on board with 10:2 Loma over prime 130 Mayweather, right?

Because, remember, with Mayweather we have perfect hindsight. Zero assumptions required. Not one. We look back at his career.

With Loma, as you acknowledge, there are several assumptions that you absolutely must make. These assumptions may or may not hold. Even if _many_ of them hold, if _one_ fails to hold, then it's all off. It's all off. He may turn out to have superb stamina but a slightly below average chin. Or a granite chin but a slight tendency to fade late. Remember, we know with total certainty that Mayweather has neither of those two deficits.

So, in light of that argument, do you still hold fast to 10:2 Loma (Loma + assumptions) over prime 130 Mayweather (perfect hindsight, no assumptions needed) or were you -- "trolling" all along?


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## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

130 lb PBF beats the fucking piss out of Loma, to say he loses 10-2 to a guy with 1 pro fight is completely insane.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Reppin501 said:


> 130 lb PBF beats the fucking piss out of Loma, to say he loses 10-2 to a guy with 1 pro fight is completely insane.


130lb PBF is overrated as fuck, he beat Corrales and he's an ATG there? Lomachenko has more experience now than Floyd had at that time.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> The best (Pernell, Rigo) were world class from the get go.


And he was the fucking best, no doubt. :deal

I know you liked the Iceveins Hagler vid, I prefer this one :yep






I don't really feel like typing it all out again as I'm still buzzing heavily, but I don't want to leave it at that as it's Rigo and Pea mentioned together but I'm really put off by the assertions by Kellerman and others that he's "Pernell Whitaker with Power". The only thing he lacked _was_ power, but that isn't a skill (though the delivery system is). Whitaker was one of the most complete boxers in history, not merely an intuitive defensive genius. He got his Gold medal on top of everything else, no sweat. He had one of the greatest jabs in the history of the lightweight (or any) division, all-time great craft and ability fighting on the inside whenever he felt like showcasing it (against bums like Julio Cesar Chavez Sr for starters), possessed a high work rate in his prime, threw every punch in the book and did so using the most imaginative and awkward of angles. He's better than Mayweather imo and beat better fighters than Mayweather, from a huge Floyd fan.

Pointed those out in particular because as we know Rigo does practically none of the above on any type of regular basis but he's got jaw dropping ability in terms of maintaining distance. Using clinches as a neutralizing defensive tactic is almost as rare as Haley's Comet and that's obviously tied into having some of the best defensive footwork ever -- and more than enough natural aggression-deterring pop in his left hand that'll often put opponents into a tentative shell for most of the night. However, he doesn't utilize a tremendous amount of versatility and I agree with you when you say he can't be considered good (much less, great) in areas that he doesn't consistently show it. He's dominant and fucking awesome, but puts all his eggs into only a couple baskets.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)




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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> And he was the fucking best, no doubt. :deal
> 
> I know you liked the Iceveins Hagler vid, I prefer this one :yep
> 
> ...


That's a quality video. With Whitaker his relative lack of pop meant that fighters were willing to engage and trade with him despite being made to look foolish, they felt self-conscious and hesitant but they wouldn't stop trying. Rigondeaux's power is to his own detriment. They can't touch him but they're also getting hurt, so they're not just hesitant, they're paralysed. If we had fighters willing to engage with Rigo I have a feeling he'd look a lot closer to Whitaker in what he can do, he has the balance, reflexes and boxing IQ, and Rigo has said that Whitaker is his favourite boxer. He simply doesn't get the opportunity to develop and show those different sides of his game though. If he had less power he would be a more versatile boxer.


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## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

I've got to say (you're still a cockhead, @Dealt_with) that i believe that a fighter, particularly one that has sat in the communist fight ranks for several seasons of world level amateurs, is a fighter, no matter where he's been for his to date) career. Teofilo Stevenson or Felix Savon any one?


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

DBerry said:


> I've got to say (you're still a cockhead, @Dealt_with) that i believe that a fighter, particularly one that has sat in the communist fight ranks for several seasons of world level amateurs, is a fighter, no matter where he's been for his to date) career. Teofilo Stevenson or Felix Savon any one?


George Foreman: "Stevenson was better than Ali, Frazier and me".

According to some experts on here he was a zero fight novice though.


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## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> George Foreman: "Stevenson was better than Ali, Frazier and me".
> 
> According to some experts on here he was a zero fight novice though.


This is very correct, I value _*all*_ ring experience with any fighter.  You still smoke bat.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> George Foreman: "Stevenson was better than Ali, Frazier and me".
> 
> According to some experts on here he was a zero fight novice though.


Yes because that would be the first questionable thing Foreman has said isn't it? Also nobody seriously believes that anyway.

Stevenson might have been a terrific pro or maybe he gets exposed as being glass jawed and a mental midget. Things that pro boxing exposes at the elite level but doesn't at the amateur one. Something you still don't seem to be able to wrap your head around. Henry Tillman beat Mike Tyson twice in the amateurs and in the pros he got KO'd within 2 rounds by Tyson.


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## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Yes because that would be the first questionable thing Foreman has said isn't it? Also nobody seriously believes that anyway.
> 
> Stevenson might have been a terrific pro or maybe he gets exposed as being glass jawed and a mental midget. Things that pro boxing exposes at the elite level but doesn't at the amateur one. Something you still don't seem to be able to wrap your head around. Henry Tillman beat Mike Tyson twice in the amateurs and in the pros he got KO'd within 2 rounds by Tyson.


Well, this is also very true, the other side of the coin I was flippin'


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

conradically said:


> your position is slightly more moderate than dealt_with, and then people tend to assume both of you hold the same opinion.
> 
> But you're still on board with 10:2 Loma over prime 130 Mayweather, right?
> 
> ...





Reppin501 said:


> *130 lb PBF beats the fucking piss out of Loma*, to say he loses 10-2 to a guy with 1 pro fight is completely insane.


Does he, really? It appears your justification for that is given right after that statement. Something I hold to be simplistic, hence why I've made assumptions based on what I know about Loma already and just used these facts about Loma to spread it over 12 rounds. It seems ridiculous for these assumptions not to hold true for the pros.

People actually have been thinking that me and dealt are actually the same person..hell people even have been thinking that me, dealt, Hands and Mexi-box are the same person atsch

Firstly, don't get it twisted. Mayweather is one of my top 10 favourite fighters of all time.

130lb Mayweather is seen as some sort of weird God on this forum..yet I think he's arguably the greatest 130lber of all time based on his legacy and his ability. A 'prime' 130lb Mayweather isn't about gluing Mayweather's ability today to the prime weight class he was in back then. He has become better as a fighter. Mayweather fought bums and KO'd most of them in under 6 rounds and hadn't even gone 12 rounds himself when he fought Genaro Hernandez for the world title. Loma has 34 rounds already against good to very good opposition, with the better opposition being in WSB...to add to that, Lomachenko is complete and established as a fighter.

Is it a crime for me to think Lomachenko beats this little young shit whos fresh out of the amateurs and would have got owned by Loma in the amateurs? I don't think it is:







MadcapMaxie said:


> maybe he gets exposed as being glass jawed and a mental midget. Things that pro boxing exposes at the elite level but doesn't at the amateur one. Something you still don't seem to be able to wrap your head around. Henry Tillman beat Mike Tyson twice in the amateurs and in the pros he got KO'd within 2 rounds by Tyson.


Evidence suggests strongly that Lomachenko won't be exposed, and we make our judgements from evidence. So please, stop. Otherwise we wouldn't be having any sort of conversation, there would be no need for any conversation as we just act like pussies and not say anything about Lomachenko until after he's had his fights.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Yes because that would be the first questionable thing Foreman has said isn't it? Also nobody seriously believes that anyway.
> 
> Stevenson might have been a terrific pro or maybe he gets exposed as being glass jawed and a mental midget. Things that pro boxing exposes at the elite level but doesn't at the amateur one. Something you still don't seem to be able to wrap your head around. Henry Tillman beat Mike Tyson twice in the amateurs and in the pros he got KO'd within 2 rounds by Tyson.


Why bring up the Tillman-Tyson example? There's also countless examples of amateur contests going the same way in the pros. You don't achieve at the level Stevenson did and be a mental midget, the headgear doesn't prevent concussion and there were/are many out cold knock outs in the amateur heavyweight divisions. If a fighter has a glass chin it usually shows up in the amateurs as they step up in competition (Khan, Bute etc.). For Stevenson to have had as many fights as he did at the top level in the super heavy division conclusively proves that he didn't have a glass chin. For you to suggest he might've been glass jawed or mentally weak (pressure on the biggest stage representing in the biggest sport for his country) just makes you look like the idiot you are.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Evidence suggests strongly that Lomachenko won't be exposed, and we make our judgements from evidence. So please, stop. Otherwise we wouldn't be having any sort of conversation, there would be no need for any conversation as we just act like pussies and not say anything about Lomachenko until after he's had his fights.


Evidence said Donald Curry was going to clean up.

Also make judgements from evidence? Are you trying to take the piss? The same evidence where you and your butt buddy were saying he beats Mayweather 10:2 and beats Pep, Saddler, Arguello, Morrales etc. On your fucking bike.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Why bring up the Tillman-Tyson example? There's also countless examples of amateur contests going the same way in the pros. You don't achieve at the level Stevenson did and be a mental midget, the headgear doesn't prevent concussion and there were/are many out cold knock outs in the amateur heavyweight divisions. If a fighter has a glass chin it usually shows up in the amateurs as they step up in competition (Khan, Bute etc.). For Stevenson to have had as many fights as he did at the top level in the super heavy division conclusively proves that he didn't have a glass chin. For you to suggest he might've been glass jawed or mentally weak (pressure on the biggest stage representing in the biggest sport for his country) just makes you look like the idiot you are.


Not really.

Holmes was KO'd in the amateurs, as was Bowe and IIRC even Ali. Also like I said to your butt buddy Donald Curry had 400 amateur wins only 4 losses, don't believe he was stopped, and all it took in the pro game was 1 left hook from on old Jamacian and that's all she wrote. Also the pro games brings in so many intangibles that amateur boxing doesn't expose. Having fragile hands, being susceptible to cuts, broken ribs, broken noses, broken jaws and cheek bones, weight draining which effected Curry, chin, power, stamina, mental fortitude, then you've got some things like should you become successful and rich your motivation might plummet, might lose your drive to fight and would rather prefer being balls deep in some nice sugar walls, having a promoter who screws you over etc. etc.

Stevenson has obviously operated at the top level in one form but has he ever had to face adversity as say Ali? Has he had to fight with a broken jaw for 10 rounds? Or have a guy like Frazier boring in every second of every round for 45 minutes of fighting? That is the platform that truly tests a fighter not 9 minutes with big gloves and conservative refs.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Not really.
> 
> Holmes was KO'd in the amateurs, as was Bowe and IIRC even Ali. Also like I said to your butt buddy Donald Curry had 400 amateur wins only 4 losses, don't believe he was stopped, and all it took in the pro game was 1 left hook from on old Jamacian and that's all she wrote. Also the pro games brings in so many intangibles that amateur boxing doesn't expose. Having fragile hands, being susceptible to cuts, broken ribs, broken noses, broken jaws and cheek bones, weight draining which effected Curry, chin, power, stamina, mental fortitude, then you've got some things like should you become successful and rich your motivation might plummet, might lose your drive to fight and would rather prefer being balls deep in some nice sugar walls, having a promoter who screws you over etc. etc.
> 
> Stevenson has obviously operated at the top level in one form but has he ever had to face adversity as say Ali? Has he had to fight with a broken jaw for 10 rounds? Or have a guy like Frazier boring in every second of every round for 45 minutes of fighting? That is the platform that truly tests a fighter not 9 minutes with big gloves and conservative refs.


You've never boxed have you? It's no problem fighting with broken bones when you have one fight every few months. Broken bones and weight draining happens in the amateurs as well and you don't have months to recuperate. You go put on some headgear and get punched with big gloves by some local bum, then think about what happens when you get punched by a world class 220lb boxer. Do you honestly think you can have 400+ fights around the world against world class comp, the best fighting the best, on consecutive days.... and have not faced adversity? When there's three rounds there isn't much time to stake your claim either, unlike in the pros where you can slow the pace down and take your time. Your opponent is trying to get at you from the opening second, do you think Stevenson didn't deal with fighters like frazier trying to knock him out from the opening bell?


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## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

This shit is why I almost never post here @*MadcapMaxie*, these fucktards turn an interesting discussion into a vicious war, when to discuss boxing is to discuss possibilities as nothing is a given and until a match happens any opinion is merely conjecture, all opinion is purely subjective and until proven otherwise, all opinions are moot. Just come and have a laugh with me in the lounge and leave these fuckwits to their "serious" discussions :lol:


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Evidence said Donald Curry was going to clean up.
> 
> Also make judgements from evidence? Are you trying to take the piss? The same evidence where you and your butt buddy were saying he beats Mayweather 10:2 and beats Pep, Saddler, Arguello, Morrales etc. On your fucking bike.





MadcapMaxie said:


> Not really.
> 
> Holmes was KO'd in the amateurs, as was Bowe and IIRC even Ali. Also like I said to your butt buddy Donald Curry had 400 amateur wins only 4 losses, don't believe he was stopped, and all it took in the pro game was 1 left hook from on old Jamacian and that's all she wrote. Also the pro games brings in so many intangibles that amateur boxing doesn't expose. Having fragile hands, being susceptible to cuts, broken ribs, broken noses, broken jaws and cheek bones, weight draining which effected Curry, chin, power, stamina, mental fortitude, then you've got some things like should you become successful and rich your motivation might plummet, might lose your drive to fight and would rather prefer being balls deep in some nice sugar walls, having a promoter who screws you over etc. etc.
> 
> Stevenson has obviously operated at the top level in one form but has he ever had to face adversity as say Ali? Has he had to fight with a broken jaw for 10 rounds? Or have a guy like Frazier boring in every second of every round for 45 minutes of fighting? That is the platform that truly tests a fighter not 9 minutes with big gloves and conservative refs.


Yeah, the amateurs does count for something, or are you taking the piss saying it counts for nothing? The fact that he trains 15 rounders and his athleticism has always been commented on over 3 and 5 rounds is evidence to suggest that he would be able to manage 12 rounders, more so than someone like Floyd Mayweather fighting 12 rounds when he had only went 6 rounds before when he fought a high number of bums.

All of what you listed is nothing Mayweather had to go through by the time he got the fight against Genaro.

I don't give a fuck about Curry, Curry didn't fight monsters like Lomachenko did, yet Lomachenko is 396-1 and Curry is 400-4.
I'm pretty sure Curry was a slow ass who looked past prime and not really wanting to fight against Honeyghan from what I remember, it didn't look like a dedicated Curry (I'm not too familiar with that era as it doesn't interest me very much). People consider a Prime Curry 'Pre-Honeyghan' and very good posters actually say he beats Floyd Mayweather :lol: nice one bro.

Ali and Holmes aint shit on what Lomachenko achieved as an amateur, just to put it out there.

Lomachenko is already regarded as a national hero in Ukraine. He has a lot of fame and seems humble as fuck. He was given a Mercedes as a present by Ukraine government I think, but he still says he likes his suzuki more..and he doesn't live in a lavish house either, he is mentally completely grounded and not a mental midget hence why he's 396-1 in an era where Olympic and World medalists have amateur records on the national and world level that have a win loss ratio of 80:20 to 40:60...yes, 40:60..
oh and he's going for a world title in his 2nd pro fight.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> You've never boxed have you? It's no problem fighting with broken bones when you have one fight every few months. Broken bones and weight draining happens in the amateurs as well and you don't have months to recuperate. You go put on some headgear and get punched with big gloves by some local bum, then think about what happens when you get punched by a world class 220lb boxer. Do you honestly think you can have 400+ fights around the world against world class comp, the best fighting the best, on consecutive days.... and have not faced adversity? When there's three rounds there isn't much time to stake your claim either, unlike in the pros where you can slow the pace down and take your time. Your opponent is trying to get at you from the opening second, do you think Stevenson didn't deal with fighters like frazier trying to knock him out from the opening bell?


So much wrong with this post.

Yes I have boxed actually.

No it is actually a problem fighting with broken bones particularly if they occur early in a match.

Yes pacing is different from amateur compared to pro but there is no comparison. When in one form you'd be lucky to throw over 200 punches and the other 1000 punches isn't unheard of there is a difference and it's big.

No Stevenson never had to deal with a beast like Frazier for 45 minutes worth of fighting with small gloves on.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Bla bla bla bla bla curry bla bla bla.


I never said it's counts for nothing but have said they're different and in many instances cannot be compared. Watch Morrison fight Mercer in the amateurs then watch the pro version for an example.

Cool you don't care about Curry but it's the example I used to counter your evidence. Also don't speculate if you don't know some posters may say this and that and maybe it was possible but in reality he achieved very little and nowhere near as much as he was thought at the time.

Again the Ali and Holmes examples are just to counter what has been said.

I don't care about Lomachenko's status and personal attributes. He's going for a belt that in reality means nothing.

Anything else?


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> I never said it's counts for nothing but have said they're different and in many instances cannot be compared. Watch Morrison fight Mercer in the amateurs then watch the pro version for an example.
> 
> Cool you don't care about Curry but it's the example I used to counter your evidence. Also don't speculate if you don't know some posters may say this and that and maybe it was possible but in reality he achieved very little and nowhere near as much as he was thought at the time.
> 
> ...


'I used it as counter evidence'..which didn't mean shit atsch none of your counter examples amounted to shit when it comes to Lomachenko. The differences that you mentioned are points that I already addressed. lol 'how can you match up a novice who just came from the amateurs over a world champion?' Well ask Fidel how he matched up against McLarnin and Frankie Genaro, two ATG's in his first 9 fights! :rofl Cases like Fidel, Muangsurin, Fenech, Weir, Sahaprom as well as my understanding of Lomachenko's abilities which shits all over your understanding, makes it valid for me to say a guy who looks better on film from say, WSB, than these guys...will be just fine..we're talking about the best amateur of all time who has a pro style. The current evidence is against you. Don't shoot me for looking at things and analysing in depth rather than be the guy who would say 'Oh Donaire would beat Rigondeaux, Rigondeaux hasn't fought someone like Donaire yet, I have no reason to expect him to beat Donaire'. 'I have no reason to think a one-time olympic gold medalist can get a draw and a win over two ATG's as a "boxing novice" '. Dumbass.

:rolleyes signs of being a bitch in the quote that you edited even though your statement was literally bla bla curry bla but I know your racism is starting to show because you can't handle anything. Anyone could be calling you 'Curry boy' from now on with your Donald Curry obsession :lol:
Sure, but seeing as I don't know enough about Donald, I'd prefer to put my trust temporarily with very good posters who know their shit over your out-of-the-air speculation, from you. His legs went half way through the fight and was never the same fighter according to..everyone. He achieved a hell of a lot as it is with victories over the top guys there and looking impressive whilst doing it, so much so that this former amateur who is inferior to Lomachenko's career as an amateur, is considered better than none other than Floyd Mayweather prime-for-prime :lol:

A WBO WORLD TITLE belt against Salido in the second pro fight is huge and it's BOXING HISTORY and means a LOT, stop regurgitating Flea's baseless statement. Loma is going for the history books.

You truly suck at this.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

DBerry said:


> This shit is why I almost never post here @*MadcapMaxie*, these fucktards turn an interesting discussion into a vicious war, when to discuss boxing is to discuss possibilities as nothing is a given and until a match happens any opinion is merely conjecture, all opinion is purely subjective and until proven otherwise, all opinions are moot. Just come and have a laugh with me in the lounge and leave these fuckwits to their "serious" discussions :lol:


Vicious war? :lol:
Good, fuck off if you don't like talking about boxing then, the fuck are you here for? Some of us have functional pre-frontal lobes so we can make well reasoned, educational guesses at what would theoretically happen when A meets B. You're an underground punching bag so I wouldn't expect you to be able to do that. Back to the lounge and onto Johnstown's nutsack where you like to dwell :cheers


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> That's a quality video. With Whitaker his relative lack of pop meant that fighters were willing to engage and trade with him despite being made to look foolish, they felt self-conscious and hesitant but they wouldn't stop trying. Rigondeaux's power is to his own detriment. They can't touch him but they're also getting hurt, so they're not just hesitant, they're paralysed. If we had fighters willing to engage with Rigo I have a feeling he'd look a lot closer to Whitaker in what he can do, he has the balance, reflexes and boxing IQ, and Rigo has said that Whitaker is his favourite boxer. He simply doesn't get the opportunity to develop and show those different sides of his game though. If he had less power he would be a more versatile boxer.


Yeah, he wouldn't really be given much of a choice. I'm not sure how long Whitaker has been his favorite boxer since it was Ronnie Shields who says he went and bought him the DVDs to show him film of him. Before the Cordoba fight of all fights, Shields said he was going to show another side of his ability and absolutely blow people away. Fail :lol: -- I'd imagine it was that recent though because there's not really a ton that he takes from him though I think it's probably for the best that he's very much his own fighter and dominates despite not being as versatile.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Evidence said Donald Curry was going to clean up.
> 
> Also make judgements from evidence? Are you trying to take the piss? The same evidence where you and your butt buddy were saying he beats Mayweather 10:2 and beats Pep, Saddler, Arguello, Morrales etc. On your fucking bike.


Curry became the Undisputed Welterweight Champion and was considered Top 2 P4P. :lol:

And yeah, there's a pretty decent chance he'd put it in Floyd's ass at his best. Would certainly be the best jab he's ever seen (even over those versions of DLH and Cotto) and the most skilled opponent on his ledger. The guy was taking prime 154 McCallum to school. Floyd isn't ending the fight with one left hook.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Hate to say it, but Curry probably keeps Aldama from ever winning Gold in 1980.


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## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Vicious war? :lol:
> Good, fuck off if you don't like talking about boxing then, the fuck are you here for? Some of us have functional pre-frontal lobes so we can make well reasoned, educational guesses at what would theoretically happen when A meets B. You're an underground punching bag so I wouldn't expect you to be able to do that. Back to the lounge and onto Johnstown's nutsack where you like to dwell :cheers


You aren't one of them, cunt, I'm yet to see you in a reasonable discussion you piece of shit, so how about you fuck off. Half wit.


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## conradically (Jul 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Does he, really? It appears your justification for that is given right after that statement. Something I hold to be simplistic, hence why I've made assumptions based on what I know about Loma already and just used these facts about Loma to spread it over 12 rounds. *It seems ridiculous for these assumptions not to hold true for the pros.*
> 
> People actually have been thinking that me and dealt are actually the same person..hell people even have been thinking that me, dealt, Hands and Mexi-box are the same person atsch
> 
> ...


it's ridiculous to assume that the assumptions won't hold true? So, on the one hand you acknowledge that there are some "assumptions" and on the other hand you say that it would be ridiculous for the the assumptions not to hold. So your assumptions are in fact articles of faith.

Why would it be "ridiculous" to learn that Loma had a slightly flaky chin? Or that he fades late? Or that he's more troubled my the handspeed of Gamboa than, say, his arch-rival in the amateurs, the immortal "Albert Selimov"?

Wouldn't be "ridiculous" in the least.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

DBerry said:


> You aren't one of them, cunt, I'm yet to see you in a reasonable discussion you piece of shit, so how about you fuck off. Half wit.


:cry


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## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> :cry


You are a miserable cunt :finger


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

DBerry said:


> You are a miserable cunt :finger


Cool story


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## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Cool story


Oxygen thief :fuckoff


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

conradically said:


> it's ridiculous to assume that the assumptions won't hold true? So, on the one hand you acknowledge that there are some "assumptions" and on the other hand you say that it would be ridiculous for the the assumptions not to hold. So your assumptions are in fact articles of faith.
> 
> Why would it be "ridiculous" to learn that Loma had a slightly flaky chin? Or that he fades late? Or that he's more troubled my the handspeed of Gamboa than, say, his arch-rival in the amateurs, the immortal "Albert Selimov"?
> 
> Wouldn't be "ridiculous" in the least.


Well given that Loma was able to take big punches from natural 140lbers with ease when he was small for the 132lb division, don't you think so? This guy has never been down from a headshot.

Since he trains for 15 rounders, and is known as a complete athletic freak, so much so that different commentators always mention it, and he is noted to be barely out of breath after a fight which is 5 rounds long and THEREFORE a faster pace than a 12 round fight, don't you think it'd be weird as hell?

Well given that he's faced extremely fast, extremely athletic guys, it seems ridiculous that speed is something that he'd struggle with. Selimov is a monster through and through and is suited towards the pro game.

People were also doubting his punching power, but they were set straight, and then later on, this happened and now they're silent now on his power, but they ahvent seen anything yet, and hopefully they wont have to as I'd prefer to watch a longer Loma fight followed by a late KO than an early one:
[video]http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1855783/Vasyl_Lomachenko_vs_Jose_Ramirez_2.gif[/video]


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Feel like I'm in a Johnstown thread now.


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## conradically (Jul 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Well given that Loma was able to take big punches from natural 140lbers with ease when he was small for the 132lb division, don't you think so? *This guy has never been down from a headshot*.
> 
> Since he trains for 15 rounders, and is known as a complete athletic freak, so much so that different commentators always mention it, and he is noted to be barely out of breath after a fight which is 5 rounds long and THEREFORE a faster pace than a 12 round fight, don't you think it'd be weird as hell?
> 
> ...


Neither had Argenis Mendez until last night. Rigo had never been down in his illustrious amateur career with hundreds of fights. In a little more than 10 fights in the pros he has been down twice. Think about that for a second. 2 out of 13, versus 0 out of 400.

Was Andre Ward knocked down in the amateurs? Haven't heard about it. In the pros, versus journeyman Darnell Boone he was down and in bad shape. Ward took big punches in the light heavy division in the amateurs and went down to super-middle in the pros. Same deal.

So, "never having been knocked down" in the amateurs means virtually nil.

As for "sparring 15 rounds" and "athleticism", I mean, really.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

conradically said:


> Neither had Argenis Mendez until last night. Rigo had never been down in his illustrious amateur career with hundreds of fights. In a little more than 10 fights in the pros he has been down twice. Think about that for a second. 2 out of 13, versus 0 out of 400.
> 
> Was Andre Ward knocked down in the amateurs? Haven't heard about it. In the pros, versus journeyman Darnell Boone he was down and in bad shape. Ward took big punches in the light heavy division in the amateurs and went down to super-middle in the pros. Same deal.
> 
> ...


And Marroquin actually hurt him worse (twice) than either of his official KDs to Cordoba and Donaire.


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## conradically (Jul 12, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> You've never boxed have you? It's no problem fighting with broken bones when you have one fight every few months. Broken bones and weight draining happens in the amateurs as well and you don't have months to recuperate. You go put on some headgear and get punched with big gloves by some local bum, then think about what happens when you get punched by a world class 220lb boxer. Do you honestly think you can have 400+ fights around the world against world class comp, the best fighting the best, on consecutive days.... *and have not faced adversity*? When there's three rounds there isn't much time to stake your claim either, unlike in the pros where you can slow the pace down and take your time. Your opponent is trying to get at you from the opening second, do you think Stevenson didn't deal with fighters like frazier trying to knock him out from the opening bell?


adversity that is exceedingly short-lived. adversity over before you know it. 3 or 4 minutes of adversity. Gutting it out for a minute.


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## conradically (Jul 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Yeah, the amateurs does count for something, or are you taking the piss saying it counts for nothing? The fact that he trains 15 rounders and his athleticism has always been commented on over 3 and 5 rounds is evidence to suggest that he would be able to manage 12 rounders, more so than someone like Floyd Mayweather fighting 12 rounds when he had only went 6 rounds before when he fought a high number of bums.
> 
> All of what you listed is nothing Mayweather had to go through by the time he got the fight against Genaro.
> 
> ...


monsters? do you mean "monster" as in big? or as in monstrously talented?


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

conradically said:


> Neither had Argenis Mendez until last night. Rigo had never been down in his illustrious amateur career with hundreds of fights. In a little more than 10 fights in the pros he has been down twice. Think about that for a second. 2 out of 13, versus 0 out of 400.
> 
> Was Andre Ward knocked down in the amateurs? Haven't heard about it. In the pros, versus journeyman Darnell Boone he was down and in bad shape. Ward took big punches in the light heavy division in the amateurs and went down to super-middle in the pros. Same deal.
> 
> ...


:nono 
Lomachenko was very small for the 132lb division. He fought natural 140lbers. That's what adds weighting. He hasn't even looked rocked in the slightest. I acknowledge this is the factor with the most uncertainty behind it, but I think its more accurate to say he does have a good chin given the evidence.
Also I feel Rigondeaux's chin is underrated. Rigondeaux stumbled onto a shot by Cordoba. Look at the position Rigondeaux was in against a comparably huge Donaire. Anyone would get knocked down from that shot. Rigondeaux got up straight away.

Darnell Boone is a tricky dude, I really rate that guy. He knocked out Adogis Rapistson

Yes whats the problem, he's known for his athleticism and stamina.


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## Antsu (Jun 4, 2013)

conradically said:


> So, "never having been knocked down" in the amateurs means virtually nil.


How does people even know if someone has been knocked down in their amateur career. Fighter will probably say he hasent been down even if he has and I found it hard to believe that someone, has seen his every amateur fight


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Antsu said:


> How does people even know if someone has been knocked down in their amateur career. Fighter will probably say he hasent been down even if he has and I found it hard to believe that someone, has seen his every amateur fight


Well no one can ever know everyhting for sure but I've seen around 50 fights of Loma, I've never seen him hurt let alone knocked down.

This is the last post I'm making today.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Curry became the Undisputed Welterweight Champion and was considered Top 2 P4P. :lol:
> 
> And yeah, there's a pretty decent chance he'd put it in Floyd's ass at his best. Would certainly be the best jab he's ever seen (even over those versions of DLH and Cotto) and the most skilled opponent on his ledger. The guy was taking prime 154 McCallum to school. Floyd isn't ending the fight with one left hook.


He won some belts against who exactly? Marlon Starling? Who else he beat? He lost to all the best fighters he fought. Also was considered or what actually ranked top 2?

In either case it doesn't matter he was all hype. Even in the McCallum fight he was the favourite despite losing to Honeyghan. Then he won another title only to lose it in his very first defence.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> 'I used it as counter evidence'..which didn't mean shit atsch none of your counter examples amounted to shit when it comes to Lomachenko. The differences that you mentioned are points that I already addressed. lol 'how can you match up a novice who just came from the amateurs over a world champion?' Well ask Fidel how he matched up against McLarnin and Frankie Genaro, two ATG's in his first 9 fights! :rofl Cases like Fidel, Muangsurin, Fenech, Weir, Sahaprom as well as my understanding of Lomachenko's abilities which shits all over your understanding, makes it valid for me to say a guy who looks better on film from say, WSB, than these guys...will be just fine..we're talking about the best amateur of all time who has a pro style. The current evidence is against you. Don't shoot me for looking at things and analysing in depth rather than be the guy who would say 'Oh Donaire would beat Rigondeaux, Rigondeaux hasn't fought someone like Donaire yet, I have no reason to expect him to beat Donaire'. 'I have no reason to think a one-time olympic gold medalist can get a draw and a win over two ATG's as a "boxing novice" '. Dumbass.
> 
> :rolleyes signs of being a bitch in the quote that you edited even though your statement was literally bla bla curry bla but I know your racism is starting to show because you can't handle anything. Anyone could be calling you 'Curry boy' from now on with your Donald Curry obsession :lol:
> Sure, but seeing as I don't know enough about Donald, I'd prefer to put my trust temporarily with very good posters who know their shit over your out-of-the-air speculation, from you. His legs went half way through the fight and was never the same fighter according to..everyone. He achieved a hell of a lot as it is with victories over the top guys there and looking impressive whilst doing it, so much so that this former amateur who is inferior to Lomachenko's career as an amateur, is considered better than none other than Floyd Mayweather prime-for-prime :lol:
> ...


Nobody is going to read your rambling shit. You think Lomachenko will do well cool, idgaf.

He's winning a belt that was vacant a fight ago. It means nothing. The only thing that means anything is the opponent he's facing.

I don't care what you think of me but know most on here think you're a sensitive, snitching little ****** who cries to the mods the second you can't handle something.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Curry became the Undisputed Welterweight Champion and was considered Top 2 P4P. :lol:


That left hook that dropped McCrory is right up there with the best left hooks in history.

Pure perfection.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Nobody is going to read your rambling shit. You think Lomachenko will do well cool, idgaf.
> 
> He's winning a belt that was vacant a fight ago. It means nothing. The only thing that means anything is the opponent he's facing.
> 
> I don't care what you think of me but know most on here think you're a sensitive, snitching little ****** who cries to the mods the second you can't handle something.


Then why were you reading then? Why are you even on here and why are you conversing with me if you can't read points that provide a little heat to your current position? I report racism only. You truly are a shit poster atsch

It means something if the holder of the world title itself is someone like Salido. Lomachenko's legacy with the title starts right there with Salido, it's not as if he's fighting Orlando Cruz for a vacant title. I don't think you've ever been to school or anything before, your lack of intellect is scary.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I promise.


Broke your promise you little dweeb.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> Broke your promise you little dweeb.


What promise?


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> A lot of people were shocked that Lomachenko was fighting Ramirez in his pro debut, in a 10 rounder against an experienced pro who had never been stopped. Some even picked Ramirez so don't act like it was completely expected. After the Salido fight we'll hear the same shit about "The result was expected.. Salido is shot.. Gamboa/Rigo/Garcia etc. will chop up this amateur". Promise you'll come back after Lomachenko has had 10 fights and ranked p4p #1 , and tell me that you were wrong and you're sorry etc.?


@pedo


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> What promise?


See above you liar


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Tonight didn't enhance Loma's reputation. He said it himself in the post fight interview. 'This isn't his weight class. This isn't a big win for me'. Loma's own words, not mine.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Tonight didn't enhance Loma's reputation. He said it himself in the post fight interview. 'This isn't his weight class. This isn't a big win for me'. Loma's own words, not mine.


He's humble. You don't understand that. He outskilled Rigo, he is pound for pound number one and that was his tenth fight. I mean you rate Garcia, and his resume is absolute garbage compared to Loma's. You're not honest and you're not consistent with your criteria. Shame on you.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

I said from the beginning. This was a mismatch. Dragging up an old man 2 divisions. Disgraceful.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I said from the beginning. This was a mismatch. Dragging up an old man 2 divisions. Disgraceful.


Rigo asked for it, Rigo said size didn't make a difference, Rigo (who many said was more skilled than Floyd) was completely outskilled. 
Everyone has Lomachenko as p4p number one or two. 
I said that Lomachenko would be pound for pound in ten fights. You laughed and put that as your sig. You said you'll promise to apologise when what I said came true. Here we are, and you have shown how weak and dishonest you are.


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