# Felix's 100 Greatest fighters of all times CountDown:#2 Lennox Lewis



## FelixTrinidad

*The 100 Greatest fighters of all times.*

*Full write ups of each fighter is available starting from Page 11.*

*#2 Lennox Lewis*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...Lennox-Lewis&p=1076304&viewfull=1#post1076304

*#3 Evander Holyfield*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...er-Holyfield&p=1054645&viewfull=1#post1054645

*#4 Vitali Klitschko *
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...tali-Klitschko&p=993261&viewfull=1#post993261

*#5 Mike Tyson: Final Edition:1999-2002*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...tion-1999-2002&p=984381&viewfull=1#post984381

*#6 Muhammad Ali*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...6-Muhammad-Ali&p=969822&viewfull=1#post969822

*#7 Khaosai Galaxy*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...Khaosai-Galaxy&p=964161&viewfull=1#post964161

*#8 Hasim Rahman*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...em-Dedication)&p=955902&viewfull=1#post955902

*
#9 Ricardo Lopez*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-Ricardo-Lopez&p=947251&viewfull=1#post947251

*#10 Peter Jackson*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-Peter-Jackson&p=914488&viewfull=1#post914488

*What is greatness to you?Entering the top 10.*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...ing-the-top-10&p=911710&viewfull=1#post911710

*#11 Prince Naseem Hamed*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...e-Naseem-Hamed&p=906044&viewfull=1#post906044

*#12 Benny Leonard*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-Benny-Leonard&p=905975&viewfull=1#post905975

*#13 Héctor Camacho*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...E9ctor-Camacho&p=901323&viewfull=1#post901323

*#14 Mike Mccallum*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-Mike-Mccallum&p=897421&viewfull=1#post897421

*#15 Rocky Marciano*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...Rocky-Marciano&p=895917&viewfull=1#post895917

*#16 Henry Cooper*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...6-Henry-Cooper&p=892903&viewfull=1#post892903

*#17 Dariusz Michalczewski*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-Michalczewski&p=885070&viewfull=1#post885070

*#18 Len Wickwar*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...18-Len-Wickwar&p=877211&viewfull=1#post877211

*#19 Sugar Ray Leonard*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...ar-Ray-Leonard&p=874468&viewfull=1#post874468

*#20 Salvador Sanchez*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...lvador-Sanchez&p=872369&viewfull=1#post872369

*#21 Tommy Hearns*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...1-Tommy-Hearns&p=866606&viewfull=1#post866606

*#22 Mike Tyson 3rd Edition*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...on-3rd-Edition&p=854910&viewfull=1#post854910

*#23 Sugar Ray Robinson*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...r-Ray-Robinson&p=851119&viewfull=1#post851119

*#24 Nicolino Locche*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...icolino-Locche&p=844464&viewfull=1#post844464

*#25 Marvin Hagler*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-Marvin-Hagler&p=840069&viewfull=1#post840069

*#26 Jack Broughton*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...Jack-Broughton&p=839976&viewfull=1#post839976

*#27 Sam Langford*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...7-Sam-Langford&p=834308&viewfull=1#post834308

*#28 Guillermo Rigondeaux*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...rmo-Rigondeaux&p=833097&viewfull=1#post833097

*#29 David Tua*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...n-29-David-Tua&p=825156&viewfull=1#post825156

*#30 Sonny Liston*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...0-Sonny-Liston&p=823894&viewfull=1#post823894

*
#31 Aaron Pryor*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...31-Aaron-Pryor&p=817781&viewfull=1#post817781

*#32 Mike Tyson(2nd Edition)*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...n(2nd-Edition)&p=811731&viewfull=1#post811731

*#34 #33
Max Schmeling and Joe Louis
*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-and-Joe-Louis&p=808339&viewfull=1#post808339

*#36 #35
Chris Eubank and Nigel Benn
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...enry-Armstrong&p=808333&viewfull=1#post808333

*
*#37 Henry Armstrong*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...enry-Armstrong&p=807275&viewfull=1#post807275

*#38 Joe Calzaghe
*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...8-Joe-Calzaghe&p=804685&viewfull=1#post804685

*#39 Carlos Monzon*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-Carlos-Monzon&p=798286&viewfull=1#post798286

*#40 Joe Frazier*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...40-Joe-Frazier&p=795763&viewfull=1#post795763

*#41 Felix Sturm*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-Sandy-Saddler&p=795757&viewfull=1#post795757

*#42 Sandy Saddler*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-Sandy-Saddler&p=793557&viewfull=1#post793557

*#43 Michael Spinks*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...Michael-Spinks&p=793220&viewfull=1#post793220

*#44 Charley Burley*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...Charley-Burley&p=793168&viewfull=1#post793168

*#45 Oscar De La Hoya*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...car-De-La-Hoya&p=792970&viewfull=1#post792970

*#48, #47,#46
Morales,Barrera,Marquez*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...6-The-3-Amigos&p=791991&viewfull=1#post791991

Get well soon Kelly!
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...8-Kelly-Pavlik&p=790588&viewfull=1#post790588

*#49 Jermain Taylor*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...Jermain-Taylor&p=790560&viewfull=1#post790560

*#50 Felix Trinidad*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...Felix-Trinidad&p=790355&viewfull=1#post790355

*#51 Wifred Benitez*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...Wifred-Benitez&p=789192&viewfull=1#post789192

*#53 #52 Lamont Brewster and Sergei Liakhovich*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...Wifred-Benitez&p=789184&viewfull=1#post789184

*#54 James Figg*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...loyd-Patterson&p=787439&viewfull=1#post787439

*#55 Floyd Patterson*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...wn-56-Joe-Gans&p=787239&viewfull=1#post787239

*#56 Joe Gans*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...wn-56-Joe-Gans&p=786903&viewfull=1#post786903

*#57 Jack Johnson*

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...7-Jack-Johnson&p=786776&viewfull=1#post786776

*#58 George Foreman*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...George-Foreman&p=784740&viewfull=1#post784740

*#59 Igor Vysotsky *
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-Igor-Vysotsky&p=784615&viewfull=1#post784615

*#60 Oliver Mccall*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-Oliver-Mccall&p=784603&viewfull=1#post784603

*#61 Bernard Hopkins*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...ernard-Hopkins&p=784036&viewfull=1#post784036

*#62 Chad Dawson*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...62-Chad-Dawson&p=783351&viewfull=1#post783351

*#63 Mike Tyson(1st Edition)*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-Igor-Vysotsky&p=781781&viewfull=1#post781781

*#64 Wladimir Klitshcko*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...Jermain-Taylor&p=781698&viewfull=1#post781698

*#65 'Irish' Andre Ward*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...40-Joe-Frazier&p=781559&viewfull=1#post781559

*#66 Henry Greb*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...enry-Armstrong&p=781375&viewfull=1#post781375

*#67 Willie Pep*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...7-Sam-Langford&p=781048&viewfull=1#post781048

*#68 Tommy Morrison*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...7-Sam-Langford&p=779907&viewfull=1#post779907

*#69 George*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-Michalczewski&p=778365&viewfull=1#post778365

*#70 Matthew Saad Muhammad*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...e-Naseem-Hamed&p=778343&viewfull=1#post778343

*#71 Antonio Margarito*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...e-Naseem-Hamed&p=776347&viewfull=1#post776347

*#72 Julian Jackson*
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...nder-Holyfield&p=775246&viewfull=1#post775246

*#73 Michael Nunn*
"Michael and the Lady'

Southpaw who never got his dues... mistreated at the Olympic Trails so
Tate won't have to lose. 
Eager to prove he was no phony... career derailed by one James Toney.
Moved up to one sixty eight... Liles proved that cruel was the Goddess Fate.
Sweat and tears at one seventy five. Doing it through hard work luck was never on his side.
Went to Germany for one last chance... Lady Destiny laughed and refused his dance.
For most people you are forgotten.. the disfavored Son.. but to me ..
Michael.. you are second to Nunn.

*
#74 Chris Byrd*

'Little Big Man'

"Light Heavy Weight in a Heavyweight's jungle.....one mistake and he shall surely stumble..
'Staring way up into the Ukrainian Giants eyes... .. twice the heart but only half the size'
'Again and again he press with rapid fire.....his momentum build as the Giant began to tire.
'little big man breaks his will....... critics am I too small still?
Have I impress you who calls me weak? Have I impress you who said my future was bleak?
You are right.. I never did have the power... but with enough desire ... I'll break down any tower.

*#75 Kid Gavilán*
First off what is the Cuban Hawk? 
Members of the genus Buteogallus are small to quite large hawks. Their wings are short to medium in length; broad and rounded; the tail is of medium length. They have coarse, heavy, rather long legs. The lores and adjacent areas are naked to varying degrees. Some feathers on the crown and nape are pointed, forming a slight crest. Adults are blackish with a white banded tail and often with some rufous in wing and (in one species) body plumage. Immature plumage is very different from adult.
The genus is present from south-western United States to Argentina, including the islands of Cuba and St Vincent. There are five species.

Physical characteristics
Small, stocky-bodied grebe with a short, thin bill and
Yellow eyes. Dark plumage, darker on the crown and back
White under tail coverts. Feet set far back on body and trail awkwardly behind body in flight.

Habitats include fresh and brackish water, from small ponds to lakes, ditches, marshes and slower moving parts of rivers.
Reproduction
Multi-brooded, will nest in any season if conditions are suitable. Lays 3 to 6 blue-white eggs that become nest staiined. Builds a foating nest of vegetation anchored to reeds. Incubation about 21 days.
Feeding habits
Eats aquatic insects, small fish, tadpoles, snails, and above water insects. Like all grebes, also eat their own feathers, which may protect the gastrointestinal track from sharp fish bones.

Conservation
This species has been classified as Near Threatened because although it can be locally common, it has a specialised habitat and consequently a moderately small range which is likely to be contracting owing to drainage and other forms of wetland destruction. However, given the dispersal capabilities of large raptors, the habitat and population is unlikely to be severely fragmented or restricted to few locations.
Very local, mainly in subtropical parts of the Americas. It may favour small temporary waters which lack predatory fish. It also occurs in swamps, shallow lakes, or oxbows, often almost overgrown with floating vegetation.
The least grebe is rare in freshwater swamps in Suriname near the coast. Birds have also been found in ponds or rivers farther in to the interior.

That's how Kid Gavilan got his name.. Now you ask.. why didn't you write anything about the actual Boxer Felix? What about Kid Gavilan?

Let me tell you why I didn't write anything about Kid Gavilan.
The reason is I want all of you people to go look up Kid Gavilan and appreciate just what a great fighter he was.
I KNOW he's great.. spend some time so you can know too.

*#76 Manny Pacquaio
*
The most sensational fighter of the last Decade. Manny Pacquaio flew through the weight divisions like super man.

I wrote a poem for Manny:

"Most people use their right hand.. Manny use his left. I could never use my left hand because that feels unnatural'.
Fighter of the Decade.. Destruction. Carnage. Pain. and Explosion. Jim Lampley loves Pacquaio more than his family.
Lampley left his daughter to be raped during the Bowe-Golota riot and Foreman had to save her. Lampley is a coward. Why does he like Gatti?
Gatti blocked punches with his face. Orlando Cruz block dicks with his. 
Pacquaio you are amazing. I miss that poster GTSK.. he was GOAT Pac fan. He made great threads about dying for Pac-Man.
Freddy Roach you talk a lot of shit. I'll leave you shaking in your boots. ***.
Pacquaio got a great resume. Fighter of the Decade. You are a human tornado.

*#77 Floyd Mayweather Jr*
This is a poem that I wrote for Floyd back in August:

"Heart and Desire, the Mayweather Way"

The warrior Mayweather going to war against Castillo with no shoulder. Floyd is the shining sun... Brilliant light . it burns my eyes so much greatness. I hurt but love heals all pain. Mayweather undefeated he is the rainmaker. I bow to his light and his skills. I want to be a baby seal living in his pocket. He will feed me bits of cheese ..
Floyd Mayweather Jr.. the great warrior. he is like the Dark Gaul. Undefeated like in that Show Spartacus. Or maybe he's Gannicus.. but with more skills. he'll never be nailed to a cross because he's too slick.
Floyd Mayweather Jr.. he will beat up Canelo. I can't wait till people say Canelo is weight drained. Floyd is 151 pounds right now.

*#78 Sergio Martinez*

Roy Jones Jr with a better chin.. Sergio Martinez establishes himself on this list as one of the MiddleWeight greats.
Brutal power combined with catlike reflexes and agility, there has rarely been a fighter that was as complete as Maravilla.
Ripping his way through the Junior Middle Weight Ranks.. Martinez was feared by all and was forced to move up into the legendary 160 Division for bigger fights..... There he delivered one of the most bone chilling knockouts in the history of Boxing.. as he laid out fellow p4per Paul Williams... that was the beginning of a fabulous run through the 160 elites.
Martinez bloodied and battered King Kelly Pavlik who twice beaten Jermain Taylor who twice beaten Bernard Hopkins........., Martinez ran off a string of fantastic victories against Dyeunk,Barker,and Macklin.....stopping all three to set up a massive show down against giant CruiserWeight Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.
The Mexican CruiserWeight was thoroughly out boxed and embarrassed throughout 11 rounds prior to scoring a knock down which Sergio recovered from to retain his MiddleWeight Crown.
Maravilla Martinez to date remains one of boxing's great role models.. He is against bullying.... while Adrien Broner is eating shit out of a toilet and putting it on twitter.. Sergio is busy saving children from being bullied and abused.

There have been talks of GayGayGay(oneshot shoutout) challenging the great Martinez(who is well past his prime).
I say put your fucking money where your mouth is.. you stupid karazhatahhan ****** bitch.
Fuck you and your fans.

*#79 Chris John*
I cried when I heard Chris John lost.. broke down and sobbed like a baby.. Not because I'm a fan of Chris John's.. but because I'm a fan of dedication and hard work.
What does consistency mean to you? What it means to me is the number 48. That's the number of fighters Chris John defeated throughout his magnificent career. A counter punching genius and a true ring master, Chris John out skilled such great technicians like Hiroyuki Enoki,Oscar León, and of course Juan Manuel Marquez. The ultra skilled Mexican was caught again and again during their brutal battle.. unable to get off first, Marquez covered into a turtle shell formation and John managed to out think the great thinker. Always one step ahead of Marquez, always leading, never following.. it was a closely contested battle but only with one clear winner.

Weather you are a puncher or a boxer.. John had the right formula to figure you out.. rarely have we seen such ingenuity and such ring guile combined into one package. 
You lost your '0' Chris....... you finally lost that zero.. But you know what? You'll never lose our respect.

*
#80 Samson Dutch Boy Gym*
I am rarely a fan of small fighters but when a small fighter achieve something that turns him into a giant.. I can not help but take notice.
Samson Dutch Boy Gym is the reason China did not take over Thailand yet........In only his 4th professional fight back in 1994.. Dutch Boy became champion and he went on to defend that championship status for a shocking 38 times...
His 38 consecutive defenses is one of the greatest stats in boxing history and shows his dedication to the art of pugilism. Dutch Boy had a granite chin, extremely fast hands, an ATG lightning jab and of course his trade mark upper cut... Leaving the game with an record of 43-0 and with the highest KO Percentage of any undefeated champion...Dutch Boy firmly establishes himself as one of the 90's greats.

He is making an ill advised come back against up coming Yemeni super star Ali Raymi... and I fear that Dutch Boy would suffer his first knock out. 
There have been complains regarding a lack of 'passing of the torch' moments in boxing.. One is coming up and it can't be missed.

Raymi might indeed take the torch from Dutch Boy.. but I must advise Raymi to cherish that torch.. for when it was lit.. it brightened the entire sky.

*#81: The Journeyman*
I'm not putting one fighter for my #81 spot. I'm putting one entity. The Journeyman.

This is a poem I dedicate to every single journeymen who ever fought, who is fighting, and who will fight in the future.

The Journeyman.

The Journeyman travels alone in the cold. Shivering and scared alone in this world.
The Journeyman sighs as he endures another defeat... but at least tonight he'll not sleep on the street. 
The Journeyman goes from town to town.. conditions worsening but he still struggles on.

The Journeyman gave this wonderboy a test..but he still came out 2nd despite his very best. 
The Journeyman fades as he watches the new champ surrounded by adoring fans....'I'll do it all over again and again........... for without me.. where would he have began?

*#82 Julio Cesar Chavez Senior*
My father once told me that he wanted me to think like Einstein, act like Mother Theresa and fight like Julio Cesar Chavez Senior. One of the greatest pressure fighters of all times.. Chavez awed and inspired with his relentless approach.. his RUTHLESS AGGRESSION(shout out to Cena) and his bone crushing body blows.
One of the great Mexicans of all times.. he was the real life Puss in Boots. Antonio Banderas with an attitude, Machete with a better right hand.... he ripped off a record of 89-0 to start his career.

He debuted against Andres Felix... and knocked him out.
But so full of anger was he that he fought Andres Felix A 2ND TIME within the span of 8 fights.. and knocked him out even FASTER.
Destroyed Ramon Flores.... with his 3rd fight.. yet SO FULL of anger was he that Chavez KNOCKED OUT Ramon's brother ROBERTO FLORES 6 months later... You might not be familiar with names like Santos and Gustavo, names like Carlos and Abarca, names like Fagasco and Mendoza.. Who are they? They were all two sport athletes (soccer and boxing) who managed to get knocked out by the great Julio.
Juilo also knocked out Meldrick Taylor.......

Great man that fought for a very beautiful Country. Viva Mexico. Viva Julio.

*#83 Frank Bruno*
' Know what I mean Arry'... 'know what I mean'? Those simple magical words are forever
imprinted into the minds of the 90's generation of British fight fans. If Ricky Hatton was the favorite son of Manchester. Frank Bruno was the 1st born of England. Beloved and adored by the British Public in a way that Princess Diana can only dream of.. Big Frank transcended boxing in the UK. Not with his skills(although they were considerable indeed) but with his smile, his personality, and his big big big heart.

I'm not going to talk about his fights or his career because for once I am in complete awe of a boxer not for his boxing but for his larger than life presence. Frank was the very definition of 'People's Champion. It wasn't the feeling that 'he was one of us' which Ricky Hatton gave off, it wasn't the 'he represents us' feeling which Muhammad Ali gave off.. no it went deeper than that.. There was something about Big Frank which made the British people love him. Loved him more than they loved any fighter hence or since.... loved him in a way that feels hearts to bursting. 
When Bruno finally conquered Mccall for that world title.........he united the entire Nation. It felt like England just got launched into space via a massive sized rocket and the entire Country was just floating around and around the Milky Way........looking down upon the rest of the World.....

Lennox Lewis was the fists of British Boxing, Joe Calzaghe was the stomach,Carl Froch was the kneecap,Ricky Hatton was the Heart,Nigel Benn was the teeth, Chris Eubank was the thighs, but Frank Bruno?

Big Frank Bruno?

He was the soul.

*#84 
Sumbu Kalambay*
I have rarely seen someone move so effortlessly in the ring.. Wonderful fighter with a wonderful set of skills which he brought to friutation at every turn. Lightning jab and great counter abilities. Sumbu was great indeed. His two battles with Nunn saw not one but two legitimate ATGS battle each other in a classic war of wills,skills,and drills.

I wrote a short poem for Sumbu.

'Amazing warrior of the African Plains... you went to Italy and you brought the pain'
'Great jab and masterful skills.. despite all that still had trouble with the billls.
Never got the glory, rarely got the pay.. that's the story of Sumbu Kalambay

*#85 Miguel Cotto*

How does it feel to live in someone's shadow? We could ask that of Kobe as he lived in Jordan's.. we could ask that of Messi as he lived in Cristiano's...and I asked that of Miguel as he continue to live in Titos........... And guess what he said back to me. "It's not that you live, but that you live well'. 
I always wondered how great Miguel could have been if he never fought Margarito that night... The Miguel of 2007-2008 looked sensational and dazzling. How much better could he have become if he didn't walk right into the fearsome Margarito? 
Miguel's attitude and laid back smile often brings me joy. He seems like a real chill guy. I loved his fights against Mayweather and Pacquaio. It showed his courage and his determination.

I'm thinking of making a poem for Miguel labelled the 'Purto Rican Assassin' ............ maybe I will write that poem after I finish this project.

*#86 James Toney*
Oscar Wilde once said 'Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.' and James Toney live by that quote every day of his life. A fat jolly foul mouthed African American who slobbers and curses while he's throwing down 360 degrees of slick ownage..... that's James Toney. Tearing through the MW Division with his incredible defense,in fighting, chin, and combinations........... Nunn, Sosa, and Mccallum aint nothing but a name for James Toney as he rendered them helpless.. He engulfed them in complete darkness and took away the lights.. refusing to give them even one glimpse of Heaven.. he send them and kept them in Hell.. Toney ravaged his body with foods.. while fighting.. Pizzas, Chips, Burgers, butter and bread, beans,bacon,ham, it all went into Jame's seemingly bottomless pit of a stomach.. 
Eating his way up to LHW.. he continued to dominate. Steve Little and Terry Porter were just more victims for Toney as he crawled closer and closer to the ultimate price:

Cruiserweight Great: Visoy Jirov. The Painter of Violence.
The two met that fateful night and what followed was perhaps one of the most jaw dropping fights in recent memory. BACK AND FORTH.. it went. BLOOD AND SPIT. SWEAT AND TEARS. Everything you ever wanted was in that fight.... The two gave it their all and Toney finally emerged victorious with the biggest win of his great career.

James Toney is the very example of a fat man being proud of being a fat man. Why lose weight when you love eating? Why bother to look good when your fists do the talking? Why care about heart attacks when you live your life in the fast lane anyways? Someone once said.. it is better to be a Lion for a day than a mouse for a year..............
James Toney is not quite a Lion.. but he sure as hell make one damn good P4P Hippopotamus. And you know what? I'm going to let you in on a little secret...

I just might ............ place my money on that Hippo to emerge victorious over the Lions..........

*#87 Ricky Hatton*
What is a hero? Is a hero braver than the ordinary man? Let me tell you what a hero is.
A hero is not braver than the ordinary man.. a hero is braver for 5 minutes longer. Ricky Hatton is a hero. He was a hero to the people, a hero to the sport, and a hero to my friend. I remember my friend often waking up and rushing into my room next door.. gushing about Hatton. He lived for Hatton fights, it motivated him and it inspired him. Win or lose.. my friend was behind Ricky Hatton all the way. THAT is the kind of greatness Ricky Hatton carries with him........ he had the people's love and what love is more important than the people?

Ricky never gave out turkeys in the ghettos.. he never saved cities from typhoons, he never lifted the Great Wall or ran a thousand miles to save a dying boy's life. He never did any of that. What he did do was inspire the commoners to be better than they were. He was a true people's champion. You drank tea? He drank tea. You eat chips? He eat chips. You drink beer? He drink beer. Everything you did he did as well. To get closer to the people, he even did cocaine and drugs.. not because he wanted to.. but because it made him look more mortal, more flawed.
I'm not going to talk about how Hatton dominated ATG Tzyu or how about Hatton stopped Castillo with a vicious body shot that broke ribs. I'm not going to talk about how Hatton was a utterly terrifying bull dog in the ring and feared by all. I'm not going to talk about how Hatton roared through the divisions and only lost to the very best. I'm not going to talk about Hatton's heart,dedication,and love of the sport.. Wait I just did. 
Ricky Hatton. A true people's champ.

*#88 Denis Lebedov*
'Animila' means Animal in Russian.. and that's exactly what the great CruiserWeight Lebedov was. An animal in the ring. 
Growing up in a fighting family, Denis learned to fight early on in life.. Having to fend off grizzlies,thugs,hooligans,and his drunken abusive Father at the same time. Denis took care of his Mother and his cousins the only way he knew how. With his fists.
Animila Lebedov went on a tear through the CW Division, pounding into submission the likes of Okoth,vychkin,makhkamov,and Bubylych. His one sided beat down of Enzo Maccarienelli got him his dream shot: A chance at P4P Legend Roy Jones Jr.

My uncle said that the greatness of Lebedev is that he doesn't just put up pressure but build it up from the beginning.

I call it 'let the beat build' ....... Let the beat build is a song by Lil Wayne where he slowly but surely rambles on and on about some mundane shit all the while letting the beat build higher and higher until it explodes.. That's the way Lebedov fights and Roy was his huckleberry. Lebedov 'let the beat build'' starting from Round 1...more and more pressure applied round by round. Not just ineffective aggressiveness but intelligent aggressiveness.. The beat build on and on until it exploded right on Roy's chin.
KO 10.. and Lebedev got the ATG win that he so deserved... He went on to outbox another P4P Legend in James Toney to end what was a spectacular and sensational career. Toney who have looked slick and masterful for so much of his career, looked lost and dazed against Lebedev and later on admitted 'Denis was one of the best fighters he's ever fought'.
A great legend and a great man. Denis 'Animila' Lebedov.

*#89 Kelly Pavlik*
Spiderman's Uncle once said 'With great power come great responsibility' .. in Kelly's case his power was something more than great.. It was gargantuan. And his responsibility? To lift the dying Middle Weight Division to it's once former glory. The good days of Hagler and Mugabi.. of Monzon and Futon.. And Kelly did just that. Ruthlessly carving into the MiddleWeight Division like it was a slab of ham.. he stomped his name on the faces of Harris,Neal,Holland,and Miranda. He stood tall and he shouted at Jermaine Taylor 'MY NAME IS KELLY and I'm coming for you' Taylor answered.

What followed was one of the most brutal two part battles in the history of the sport. Back and forth with high end drama.. knock downs and blood. Pavlik went toe to toe with Jermaine as Lennox Lewis did the HBO commentating. Kelly emerged victorious after a long and drawn out war.. knocking out Jermaine to claim the undisputed MW Crown.
WE HAVE A NEW MIDDLE WEIGHT CHAMPION AND HE'S FROM YOUNGSTOWN OHIO.. shirked Jim Lampley.......... Kelly continued to hone his skills and in the rematch once again went to war against Taylor.. this time winning a narrow UD. His time at the top was cut short by alcoholism... but when he was at the top.. there were very few that did it better.

We miss you Kelly... Hope you stop drinking and take care of your beautiful family.

*#90 Vernon Forrest*
My Biology Professor said that the 'Viper is a dangerous dangerous creature'. Vernon Forrest proves him right. One of the most dangerous and vicious of boxers.. Vernon was a time relic. A throw back to the better days of the past. A FIGHTER WHO fights anyone who dare rise up and challenge him. Jolting jab that leaves you parazled if it connects... a FLUSH right hand that snaps necks back... and a lethal upper cut which hurts bad. Vernon had it all. He was a giant for his Division and used his size to great effect. He was the school yard bully, the big dog, the black gorilla, the fearsome lion, the big Elephant that stomps. 
Dominating the likes of Shane Mosley, Adrian Stone, and Griffin.. he toyed with the Welterweight Division.. they were his meat and he was the big predator eating everyone. Using every single inch of the boxing ring to make him feel good... he never once let down... always pressuring, always attacking, always seeking.... 
When a tree falls in the middle of the woods... it might not make a sound.. but when an ENTIRE forest falls... the neighboring cities will feel the shake... The boxing world felt that shake as Mayorga twice defeated Vernon........... he never quite regained the brilliance he had prior to Mayorga.. but Forrest stands tall among this generation's greats... Gone but never forgotten..

*#91 Andrew Golota*
Someone once told me that God created Germans so the Poles would not conquer Europe... I said if Poland had just 1000 Golotas.. World War Two would have ended in 1941.......... 6'4 and 240 pounds.. Golota was the very definition of a super heavyweight with skills. Hands like a welter and moving with the grace of a light weight.. Golota skates around the ring.. doing figure 8's of beautifully interwoven boxing poetry.

Dominating the likes of Marion Wilson and Dwyane Hall.. Golota roared his way to the top of the Heavyweight Contender list.. He twice defeated ATG Riddick Bowe and was the first Pole to reach the very top of the World.. He had it all. Palaces, tanks,cars,a beautiful wife, the worship of a Nation, and skills to make others die for. His run was ended by British God Lennox Lewis and he was left forever a shell of his once great self. History do not forget what he HAS done prior to Lewis though and history never will. 
My Uncle once told me that the true uniqueness of Golota was his creativity. Instead of throwing out a lone jab.. he throws out two. Instead of punching with a straight right and following it up with a left hook.. he punches with a straight right and hit you in the Penis.

With Golota you just never know what is going to happen next and that is your downfall. He preys upon the mentally weak and with his mixture of physical/emotional/mental attacks. you can not help but fold underneath the pressure. 
As great as he is.. the question remain what could have been? If only he did a few things different......... Poland's finest and by far the most worthy of Polish warriors. Andrew 'G' Golota.

*#92 Pernell Whitakker*
Sweet Pea is sweet indeed.. Delicious southpaw who make the boxing hardcores drool and the casuals snore. Pea might have been boring for the casuals(and for me) but one cannot deny his sweetness. Candy corn jab with chocolate like movements. He give me a sweet tooth with his surreal defense. Robbed against Chavez.. he lost fair and square against Trinidad and gave Oscar a tough fight. 
To fully understand just how great Whitakker was.. one must understand how hard it would be to catch a pig dipped in butter. Catching Whitakker would be like catching a pig dipped in butter.. he EVADES punches and dodges jabs... he was the Black Neal. 
I forced myself to watch 5 of his fights and I realized that he was indeed a P4P Monster. Syrup and Jam. Basket Robbin's 91 flavors of Darkness. French Vanilla sweetner in that coffee and some hazelnuts. Pernell was everything and than some.. A true P4P GREAT.

*#93 Sakio Bika*
The deadly scorpion from Cameroon sinks his venom into the top 93. A famous TV Star and a local hero in Syndey.. Sakio Bika never needed boxing for money.. He boxed for the sheer joy of it. The sheer rush of taking punches on his granite chin and not blinking. The sheer blood pumping, heart altering, soul leaping act of violent warfare in the ring.

Bika strived for greatness from the very start.. He rushed through his division, heaping win after win on top of his resume before going over to Germany and getting a TD against German Champion Markus Beyer. Bika set his sights even higher after that and went for Welsh Legend Joe Calzaghe.. The two met in a clash that produced plenty of fireworks and high end drama. Bika came up short against Calzaghe and vowed to return stronger than ever..
He went on to destroy echapon Suwunnalird and Andre Thysse with a great display of punching and counter punching which left fans in awe of his masterful mastery of counters. Lucian Bute the legend of Romania stood in his way after and he once again showed his granite chin by absorbing Bute's best shots on a way to a very close loss.

Sakio's peak came when he upsetted undefeated crowd favorite Jean-Paul Mendy in a vicious beat down that derailed Mendy's career forever. Sakio pressed the action from the very start.. showering Mendy with a barrage of punches..pushing him back, hurting him, and eventually stopping him. It was Sakio's night and it was well deserved. Sakio was never the same after Mendy as he seem to have lost his dedication to the fine arts of pugilism. He devoted more and more time to his acting career and became a great family man,a loving husband to his beautiful wife.
Sakio Bika gave us many memorable nights.. Scopion King I honor you like you honored us with your skills and fists.

*#94 
Gary Mason
*
One of the most lethal punchers of all times.. Gary Mason holds a Knock out % of 34 KO/37 Wins. He have a shocking career of 37-1 and only had his '0' taken by ATG Lennox Lewis. Mason's punching tactics is unique in that he rarely needs to set anything up... vicious and brutal with either hand coming from all angles.. he was the very definition of an 'awkward killer'.
Anything he touches, he folds.(With the exception of Lewis).. the destroyer of destroyers... Mason holds big wins over Tillis,Ratiff, and USA Olympic Hero Tyrell Biggs.. A quiet gentleman outside the ring, Gary's hobbies include cooking meat and chopping meat. He have butcher shops and restaurants that sells meats.
A family man, a meat loving man, and a good man. That's what Mason was outside the ring.. but inside the ring he became a animal.. a stone cold killer with an attitude. Nothing was given to him for free.. everything he ever had he earned it with those giant sized mammoth fists of his... Mason is the very definition of a warrior role model. Brutal inside the circle, gentle outside. We miss you Gary. R I P.

*#95
Fernando Vargas*
Tell me what's the first image that pops into your head when you hear these words: Courage,bravery,will power,excitement. If the answer is not Fernando Vargas than you need to watch more boxing.
Young El Terrible rose up through the ranks in spectacular fashion.. Creating lethal shockwaves as he fought a barrage of elite fighters at the tender age of 19. Going head to head and toe to toe against Quartey,Marquez,Campas,and Prime Winky Wright. He defeated them all.
The Wright fight was really one for the ages as the young Vargas out worked Young Wright with controlling of the center and body combinations. Dazzling fireworks and bursts of radiant lightning in every round.. it was one of the great 90's wins and Fernando proved his true talent that night. Vargas went on a tear through the 154 Division.. Ripping and gashing his way to the footsteps of non other than PR Great Felix Tito Trinidad. 
In one of the most beautiful and violent fights of all times.. Tito and Fernando went back and forth.. doing the great PR-Mexico riviarly FULL justice.
Trinidad eventually grinded Vargas down to take a beautiful TKO Win.. a win that will go down in the record books.

Vargas's relentless attributes and ferocity earns him a place in any ranking charts.

They said you can't spell M E X I C O without M.. I say you can't spell M E X I C O .. without 'O'.......... Fernand*O*.

*
#96 Roy Jones Jr*

When you think International Rap Superstar.. you think Roy Jones Jr.. One of the most gifted and dazzling rapper/fighters that ever existed. Roy despite having a very very weak chin dominated due to his sheer reflexes and athleticism. He ripped through the MW/SMW Divisions.. dingo punching is way to victory after victory.. He lost his '0' against fellow ATG Montell Griffin but avenged it in shockingly super fashion.. LEFT HOOK and y'all musta forgot was forever imprinted in our minds..

Roy jumped up to HW and fought elite level champion John Ruiz and beaten him in surreally shocking fashion. Left hook after left hook.. upper cut followed by beautiful jab. Roy Jones Jr proved his worth against a top level fighter 30 pounds heavier than he was. Going through the divisions like a TORNADO and a RABID DOG.. he showed everyone the true meaning of 'division hopping'.. Amazing fighter.....his chin finally gave out due to his loss of reflexes but when he had his reflexes.. Roy Jones Jr was a definite top 100 fighter of all times and I have him at #96 .
Y'all musta forgot.. no Roy we did not.

*#97 Roberto Duran*

*#98 Karl Froch*
Carl once said that the Super Middle Weight Division was his 2nd love behind his wife. He have proven that by never once going below or above 168 pounds. The fearless Polish/Nottingham warrior in many ways remind us of a George Foreman as he club his way into the Boxing's elites with thundering right hands and left hooks. Again and again he will pound his opponents into submission, snarling all the while like a beast of some kind.

He knocked out high touted MiddleWeight Great Jermain Taylor in a brutal contest of wills and skills.. and went into the Super Six with vicious intent. He roared and growled his way into the Finals defeating such notable fighters like Andre Dirrel, Arthur Abraham and Danish great Mikeel Viking Kessler. There he met his styles nightmare in Andre Ward.

They say every Ali have his Frazier. Ward was Karl's Frazier... he frustrated Karl at every turn and came out victorious in a razer thin fight. Karl went on to regroup and dominate P4P fighter Lucian Bute.. putting down the great Romanian Canadian with thumping body shots. Carl continues to impress and refuses to relinquish his position as the #1 Super Middle Weight............destroying Philly superstar Mack in a one sided beat down, beating Kessler in a heart jumping rematch and finally emerging victorious against the greatest young talent the SMW Division have seen in decades.

Froch is a loving family man and his story is far from done.. Will he surpass his fellow ATG SMW British counterparts in Nigel Benn,Steve Collins, and Chris Eubank? Only time will tell... but we will enjoy watching the ride.

*99-Adonis Stevenson
*
One of the great Southpaw killers of our era, Stevenson brings lightning and thunder to every match he's ever been in. Growing up in poverty with a troubled past, Stevenson changed all that by becoming Light Heavy Weight Champion with one massive punch which destroyed fellow ATG LHW Chad Dawson's entire soul. Stevenson is a unique counter punching aggressive slick athletic fighter and controls range/distance with a phenomenal jab. Stevenson torn through the super middle weight Division with knock out after knock out and was avoided by everyone in the weight class. Ward,Froch,Bute,and Kessler all made sure they never had to fight him and instead went on to fight each other. Forced to move up, Stevenson did so with a fury...... Against 3 elite level LHWS in Dawson,Cloud,and Bellow.. Stevenson did not even lose a round. Light Heavy Weight has turned out to be his true niche and he is still writing his history as we speak.

*100- Glen Johnson.*
One of the most underated boxers of any generation, Glen Johnson stakes his claim at #100 . The Jamician is the very example of courage,dedication, and elite level volume punching. Johnson went on a tear to start off his career at MW.

Dominating 32 straight fighters with his surreal volume punching, beating out dangerous fighters like Ralph Monday,Jeff Johnson,Tom Bentley,and Gerald Reed. He suffered his first loss to Bernard Hopkins in a brutal back and forth battle and was than robbed agaisnt Sos and Kiwanuka. 
Johnson went on a 2nd run after moving up to Super Middle Weight, only to be stopped by fellow ATG Sven Ottke in a dazzling 12 round contest. Johnson reinvented his style and changed his volume punching to a more stylish approach.. His big night came against Fighter of the Decade Roy Jones Jr who he managed to outbox for 9 straight rounds prior to the brutal and vicious knock out which left Jones Jr comatose for 10 minutes.

Johnson went on to meet fellow Roy Conqueror Motell Griffin in a thrilling contest which saw Johnson emerge victorius in the 11th....
Glen Johnson retired from boxing after giving Golden Boy George Groves all that he could handle. Johnson #100


----------



## Chatty

Sven Ottke
Samson Dutch Boy Gym
Marcel Cerdan
Henry Armstrong
Ali Raymi
Jack Johnson


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul

:eye


----------



## Chatty

Oh and Lomachenko - Loma is number 1 now as he has debuted so he can be counted in pro lists. Once he beats Salido all lists will be burned as no one will be able to compete anymore.


----------



## Vic

Ali Haminny or some shit like that......that KO Artist from IRan you guys talk about....


----------



## Vic

Chatty already mentioned the guy.

Koki Kameda then.....


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Chatty said:


> Sven Ottke
> Samson Dutch Boy Gym
> Marcel Cerdan
> Henry Armstrong
> Ali Raymi
> Jack Johnson


I'll put in Johnson.. I don't have enough footage of Armstrong to make a legitimate case for him, but I'll trust your words.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Vic said:


> Ali Haminny or some shit like that......that KO Artist from IRan you guys talk about....


He's from YEMEN.. Not Iran..

Dude that's like calling Poland Germany.....Lol.


----------



## Vic

:lol: at the list, Tua, Sturm, Jirov...


----------



## Chatty

Vic said:


> Ali Haminny or some shit like that......that KO Artist from IRan you guys talk about....


I think your getting mixed up with Al Hamidi, a journeyman over here who is far better than his record looks, beat John Murray up one time for fun (true story) just to show it but mostly lets people win cause he's a nice fella.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?cat=boxer&human_id=375620


----------



## Vic

FelixTrinidad said:


> He's from YEMEN.. Not Iran..
> 
> Dude that's like calling Poland Germany.....Lol.


Same continent....both countries have short names and are muslims :conf, normal mistake my bro IMO.....


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Chatty said:


> I think your getting mixed up with Al Hamidi, a journeyman over here who is far better than his record looks, beat John Murray up one time for fun (true story) just to show it but mostly lets people win cause he's a nice fella.
> 
> http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?cat=boxer&human_id=375620


:lol: Great find.. I guess this shows the difference between an ELITE level boxing historian(Chatty) and a VERY GOOD boxing historian(Vic)


----------



## Wallet

Nasam Hassem should be higher.


----------



## Vic

Chatty said:


> I think your getting mixed up with Al Hamidi, a journeyman over here who is far better than his record looks, beat John Murray up one time for fun (true story) just to show it but mostly lets people win cause he's a nice fella.
> 
> http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?cat=boxer&human_id=375620


Possibly my mind played a trick...nto sure though, can´t remember watching this guy fighting........anyway....


----------



## Vic

Wallet said:


> Nasam Hassem should be higher.


This.
And Edison Miranda should be at the list.....


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul

Just saw Al Hamidi lost to Craig Evans. Someone who Lomachenko did a Roy Jones job on in World Amateur Championships. Craig Evans is now 140lbs and Lomachenko only 126lbs!


----------



## FelixTrinidad

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Just saw Al Hamidi lost to Craig Evans. Someone who Lomachenko did a Roy Jones job on in World Amateur Championships. Craig Evans is now 140lbs and Lomachenko only 126lbs!


Any fighters you feel like I missed out on?


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul

FelixTrinidad said:


> Any fighters you feel like I missed out on?


Ross, Pep, Walker, Armstrong, Dixon, McFarland, McGovern, Rosenbloom, Canzoneri, McLarnin, Saddler, Holman Williams, Conn, Tunney, Monzon, Wilde, Jofre, Harada, Carlos Ortiz, Gibbons bros, Arguello, Napoles, Griffith, Galivan, Bivins, Loughran, Ike Williams, Welsh, Ambers, Sanchez, Gomez, Saldivar. Harold Johnson, Nelson, Driscoll, Al Brown, Marshall, Locche, Kid Lewis, Britton, Burley, Gans, Zarate, LMR, Tiger, Perez, Canto, Basillo


----------



## FelixTrinidad

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Ross, Pep, Walker, Armstrong, Dixon, McFarland, McGovern, Rosenbloom, Canzoneri, McLarnin, Saddler, Holman Williams, Conn, Tunney, Monzon, Wilde, Jofre, Harada, Carlos Ortiz, Gibbons bros, Arguello, Napoles, Griffith, Galivan, Bivins, Loughran, Ike Williams, Welsh, Ambers, Sanchez, Gomez, Saldivar. Harold Johnson, Nelson, Driscoll, Al Brown, Marshall, Locche, Kid Lewis, Britton, Burley, Gans, Zarate, LMR, Tiger, Perez, Canto, Basillo


Give me your BEST 2 from that list and tell me if you think they rank higher than Chatty and Vic's boys (Jack Johnson/Edison Miranda)
Thank you for your time.


----------



## turbotime

Henry Greb inside the top 10.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul

FelixTrinidad said:


> Give me your BEST 2 from that list and tell me if you think they rank higher than Chatty and Vic's boys (Jack Johnson/Edison Miranda)
> Thank you for your time.


Armstrong - 3rd best of all time IMO after 1. Greb 2. Robinson. He beat Ceferino Garcia and thus had titles at 4 weight divisions where they had same day weigh ins. Monster.
Pep - monster.
Barney Ross - neck and neck with Leonard in all time rankings, with the majority having him a whisker above Leonard.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Armstrong - 3rd best of all time IMO after 1. Greb 2. Robinson. He beat Ceferino Garcia and thus had titles at 4 weight divisions where they had same day weigh ins. Monster.
> Pep - monster.
> Barney Ross - neck and neck with Leonard in all time rankings, with the majority having him a whisker above Leonard.


Thank you


----------



## bballchump11

You got Naseem above Barrera and Morales?


----------



## MadcapMaxie

Peter McNeeley
Tony Galento 
Saensak Muangsurin

Hamed should be top 5


----------



## MadcapMaxie

Also William "The Prussian" Sherriff.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c

bhop is in there twice


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Chacal said:


> bhop is in there twice


Great catch. Thank you.I think I will substitute in another fighter for Bhop's 2nd place.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Because I accidentally put in BHOP twice... I need another fighter in between Mike Mccalum and JMM.

So somebody list a fighter NO GREATER than Mike Mccallum but slightly better than JMM.


----------



## crash

Jeff Fenech,Kostya Tyzu.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

MadcapMaxie said:


> *Peter McNeeley*
> Tony Galento
> Saensak Muangsurin
> 
> Hamed should be top 5


Mcneeley should not be in any list of a top 1000 much less a top 100 sorry.
I respect the Hell out of Hamed.. but he haven't done enough to be a top 5 All Time fighter.. He was a HELL of a fighter though.. damn good. But just missing on that something magical which my top 10 have.

That something extra.. you know.


----------



## MadcapMaxie

FelixTrinidad said:


> Mcneeley should not be in any list of a top 1000 much less a top 100 sorry.
> I respect the Hell out of Hamed.. but he haven't done enough to be a top 5 All Time fighter.. He was a HELL of a fighter though.. damn good. But just missing on that something magical which my top 10 have.
> 
> That something extra.. you know.


I seriously thought this list was just for teh lulz? Otherwise it looks like you're just naming fighters you know...


----------



## FelixTrinidad

turbotime said:


> Henry Greb inside the top 10.


41 is the absolute highest I can put him due to the shocking lack of footage.
This is a historical/respesctful list which was verified by my eye test.

I respect the HELL out of Greb.. from what I read.. he was a HELL of a fighter.

But I'll be damn if I put someone with almost no footage in the top 40. 
41 and that's not definitive either. The sheer amount of quality from 40-50 is staggering in that these fighters display such an array of styles and elite level talent that it will be VERY hard to accurately rank them... Although 40-50 don't have the talent 20-30 did.. they sure were damn good fighters in their own right.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

crash said:


> Jeff Fenech,Kostya Tyzu.


Thank you.. Do you rate Fenech HIGHER than Tyzu? I personally got Fenech higher..


----------



## FelixTrinidad

I'm putting Rocky Marciano at #82 .. full credit to Madcap..

A true warrior. Very deserving of being #82 .


----------



## MadcapMaxie

FelixTrinidad said:


> Because I accidentally put in BHOP twice... I need another fighter in between Mike Mccalum and JMM.
> 
> So somebody list a fighter NO GREATER than Mike Mccallum but slightly better than JMM.


William "The Prussian" Sherriff. He reaked havoc over his long reign.

I mean the guy fought John Welch to a draw over 73 rounds. John Welch. THE John Welch.


----------



## MadcapMaxie

Or perhaps more seriously Dick Tiger.


----------



## MadcapMaxie

Kelly Pavlik above Rocky Marciano, Barney Ross and Willie Pep.

Such names.

Such list.


----------



## Drew101

Sung *Kill* Moon :deal


----------



## FelixTrinidad

MadcapMaxie said:


> Or perhaps more seriously Dick Tiger.


Once again you have contributed a great name. Tiger was such a devastating fighter. Beautiful.. just beautiful.. It's like watching brutal poetry in the ring when he fights.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Drew101 said:


> Sung *Kill* Moon :deal


There's also a very good South Korean Super Middle Weight I think.......... if he was around today .. it will be good for boxing due to marketability in S.Korea.
He won't beat Ward.. but I remember he was very skilled.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c

anthony joshua


----------



## Stick and Move

John Conteh
Lloyd Honeyghan


Ali Raymi :deal
Samson Dutch Boy Gym :deal


----------



## MadcapMaxie

FelixTrinidad said:


> There's also a very good South Korean Super Middle Weight I think.......... if he was around today .. it will be good for boxing due to marketability in S.Korea.
> He won't beat Ward.. but I remember he was very skilled.


You're right he wouldn't beat Ward. Probably because he was a Bantamweight.

I'd also add Khaosai Galaxy.


----------



## dyna

John Ruiz
Jimmy Young
Fres Oquendo

Where are they?


----------



## Stone Rose

FelixTrinidad said:


> Because I accidentally put in BHOP twice... *I need another fighter in between Mike Mccalum and JMM.*
> 
> So somebody list a fighter NO GREATER than Mike Mccallum but slightly better than JMM.


Scott Welch. Great unsung white hope and went life and death with Mickey o'Neill before being caught with a sucker punch.


----------



## Thanatos

Joshua Clottey
George Chuvalo 
Edwin Valero (even though his career was short lived)
Alexis Arguello 
Gene Tunney
Sam Langford


----------



## Vano-irons

Henry Armstrong
Bob Fitzsimmons 
Sam Langford

All three could be considered the best fighter of all time


----------



## Vano-irons

Just seen Fitzsimmons 

Jimmy Wilde a cert


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Vano-irons said:


> Just seen Fitzsimmons
> 
> Jimmy Wilde a cert


Wilde's in ring brilliance leaves one feeling awed and inspired. Awed that we can witness such dazzling skills and inspired in that we as human beings can be capable of such skills.

Great pick.
I'll put him at #90 .


----------



## FelixTrinidad

MadcapMaxie said:


> You're right he wouldn't beat Ward. Probably because he was a Bantamweight.
> 
> I'd also add Khaosai Galaxy.


I found him 
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?cat=boxer&human_id=29828

He's considered in many circles as one of the top 10-15 best SMW'S of all times skill wise.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

What everyone thinks of Tommy Morrison?
You guys think he deserves to be on this list?
His dazzling display of punching power and combinations leave me feeling awed and inspired.

But I don't know if he have the resume to crack this list.. But BY GOD he was exciting.

Anyone can make a case for The Duke at 91?


----------



## Yiddle

FelixTrinidad said:


> I'm currently at #77 .. Any advice regarding 78-100?
> Anybody I'm missing from my list that you feel is worthy of being a Top 100 fighter of all times?
> Thanks.
> 
> 1-Muhammad Ali
> 2-Sugar Ray Robinson
> 3-Ezzard Charles
> 4-Archie Moore
> 5-Joe Louis
> 6-Marvin Hagler
> 7-Sugar Ray Leonard
> 8-Tommy Hearns
> 9-Roberto Duran
> 10-Lennox Lewis
> 11-Evander Holyfield
> 12-Joe Frazier
> 13-Mike Tyson
> 14-George Foreman
> 15-Bernard Hopkins
> 16-Floyd Mayweather Jr
> 17-Manny Pacquaio
> 18-Nasam Hassem
> 19-Michael Spinks
> 20-Ricardo Lopez
> 21-Juilo Cesar Chavez Senior
> 22-Chocolate Kid
> 23-Ken Norton
> 24-Roy Jones Jr
> 25-Mike Mccalum
> 26-Antonio Tarver
> 27-JMM
> 28-Marcio Antonio Barrera
> 29-Erik Morales
> 30-Dwight Qawi
> 31-Wladimir Klitschko
> 32-Oscar De La Hoya
> 33-Vitali Klitschko
> 34-James Toney
> 35-Chris Eubank
> 36-Nigel Benn
> 37-Steve Collins
> 38-Visaly Jirov
> 39-David Haye
> 40-Pernell Whitaker
> 41-Henry Greb
> 42-Bob Foster
> 43-Michael Nunn
> 44-Gerald Mccellan
> 45-Beau Jack
> 46-Les Darcy
> 47-Bob Fitzsimmons
> 48-Carlos Ortiz
> 49-Alexander Povetkin
> 50-Jake La Motta
> 51-David Tua
> 52- Ike Ibebecuhi
> 53- Carlos Zarate
> 54-Carlos Monzon
> 55-Joe Brown
> 56-Vernon Forrest
> 57-Paul Williams
> 58-Sergio Martinez
> 59-Gennady Golevkin
> 60-Tiger Flowers
> 61-Jack Britton
> 62-Joe Calzaghe
> 63-Mikeel Kessler
> 64-Ruben Olivares
> 65-Pacnho Villa
> 66-Andre Ward
> 67-Felix Sturm
> 68-Chad Dawson
> 69-Riddick Bowe
> 70-Tony Tucker
> 71-Tyrell Biggs
> 72-Georges Carpentier
> 73-Manuel Ortiz
> 74-Larry Holmes
> 75-Jeramine Taylor
> 76-Kelly Pavlik
> 77-Shane Mosley
> 78-Jack Johnson(Credit to Chatty)
> 79-Edison Miranda(Credit to Vic)
> 80-Willie Pep (Credit to Undefeated_Gaul)
> 81-Barney Ross (Credit to Undefeated_Gaul)
> 82-Rocky Marciano(Credit to MadcapMaxie)
> 83-Dick Tiger(Credit to MadcapMaxie)
> 84-Joshua Clottey(Credit to Thanatos)
> 85-Gene Tunney(Credit to Thanatos)
> 86-Edwin Valero (Credit to Thanatos)
> 87-George Chuvalo(Credit to Thanatos)
> 88-Alexis Arguelleo(Credit to Thanatos)
> 89-John Ruiz(Credit to Thanatos)
> 90-Jimmy Wilde(Credit to Vanes)


Ted kid lewis
Jack kid berg


----------



## tommygun711

why is David Haye ranked so highly on the list? seriously? He has no business being ranked over the likes of Whitaker never mind Greb!


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> why is David Haye ranked so highly on the list? seriously? He has no business being ranked over the likes of Whitaker never mind Greb!


It's debatable. Some people feel that Whitaker should be ranked higher than Haye and others feel that Haye is above Whitakker. Two defensive cuties with extreme athletic talent and overall brilliant ring generalship.


----------



## Floyd_g.o.a.t

Naseem? :lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Floyd_g.o.a.t said:


> Naseem? :lol:


Ya.. I got him in the right place after extensive research.. Iniitally I got him around 65... but it turned out that was way too low.

The truth of the matter is... the VAST Majority of you can't even list 100 boxers you guys have watched.
I have researche this extensively and the only guy that can come up with a comparable list is probably Mcgrain and that's VERY debatable.

I got Mcgrain's list over mine by a cunt hair......two brilliant boxing minds with two great lists..

Although Mcgrain have used the help of hundreds of ESB Posters to create his list.. I had to do it by myself...

Right now I'm debating over Tommy Morrison or Matthrew Saad Muhammad.. WHO WAS the greater fighter.
It's a tough one. What do you think?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Yiddle said:


> Ted kid lewis
> Jack kid berg


Ted Kid Lewis is DEFINITELY a top 100 fighter. Great find.
Would you consider his skills above that of Tommy Morrison? They are two dazzling and SPARKLING fighters when they are on the offensive.
TAKES YOUR BREATH away with their OPTIMALIZE skills and in depth perception in regards to front foot off the back foot in relations to the key jab factors in throwing combinations. It is not so much their unique adapatavity at ring center that so pushes them to the higher ladders of offensive fighters but their KEEN insight at shot placement.
Two great fighters.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> It's debatable. Some people feel that Whitaker should be ranked higher than Haye and others feel that Haye is above Whitakker. Two defensive cuties with extreme athletic talent and overall brilliant ring generalship.


no it's not really debatable at all


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Thanatos said:


> Joshua Clottey
> George Chuvalo
> Edwin Valero (even though his career was short lived)
> Alexis Arguello
> Gene Tunney
> Sam Langford


I have to once again priase you in regards to Clottey.

He is the very definition of a Anti Boxing Grammar fighter.

Boxing grammar calls for a fighter to throw punches, Clottey shells up into a iron cast defensive rubic cube that's unsolvable. Boxing grammar calls for a fighter to attempt to win the fights he is in, Clottey instead plays by his own rules and his own definition of winning. Boxing grammar calls for a fighter to show effort and heart, Clottey refuse to focus on such mundane aspects and instead focuses on a higher level of awareness.

They say the gazelle and the cheetah evolve side-by-side in a symmetrical race to a nonexistent finish line that maintains between them a perfect balance that ensures the survival of each species. Clottey is the turtle that crawls behind them.. seeminly so insignificant that no cheetah will ever try to hurt him.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> no it's not really debatable at all


It is. .Pernell was a defensive elitist that fought bigger man and awed with his seemingly picture perfect skills. Haye is a defensive elitist that fought even bigger man and at times have you catching your breath in gasps of utter disbelief..

They say the gazelle and the cheetah evolve side-by-side in a symmetrical race to a nonexistent finish line that maintains between them a perfect balance that ensures the survival of each species. David Haye is the gazelle that have so out paced the cheetahs that no teeth or claw will ever touch him.
He proved it against the 7'2 monster in Valvuev, he proved it in top 10 HW ATG 6'6 250 Pound Wladimir Klitschko, he proved it against 6'5 Olympic Gold Medal winner Audley Harrison, and he proved it against the 240 pound Chisora.He is the cunning gazelle in a division full of cheetahs and lions.. yet he is so rarely hurt and so rarely caught.

It is not so much Haye's defensive excellence that have him as a All Time Great but how he so inter mesh his offensive skills alongside his impeccable defense in a way Whitakker never quite achieved. Pernell as great as he was defensively was a few levels beneath Haye in terms of pure offensive sets.

I had a dream last night that I died and went to the Pearly Gates and as God greeted me he asked.

"Why do you have David Haye ranked so low'? I thought I was damned but realized that I was already damned by my refusal to put Manny Pacquaio in the top 10"


----------



## Ivan Drago

I can't believe you're even considering Tommy Morrison after his performance in Rocky V, surely that rules him out of contention. Done in by a brain damaged and 'never had a prime to be past' Rocky Balboa.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Ivan Drago said:


> I can't believe you're even considering Tommy Morrison after his performance in Rocky V, surely that rules him out of contention. Done in by a brain damaged and 'never had a prime to be past' Rocky Balboa.


Actually that was a street fight... that have nothing to do with Boxing.
In the ring Tommy would have knocked out that version of Balboa easily.
Balboa was a poor man's Ike Ibeubchi.


----------



## Eoghan

Carl Frampton. Failing that, Barry McGuigan


----------



## Eoghan

Ivan Drago said:


> I can't believe you're even considering Tommy Morrison after his performance in Rocky V, surely that rules him out of contention. Done in by a brain damaged and 'never had a prime to be past' Rocky Balboa.


Coming from a man who lost to the Italian Stallion:lol:


----------



## bjl12

Chatty said:


> Oh and Lomachenko - Loma is number 1 now as he has debuted so he can be counted in pro lists. Once he beats Salido all lists will be burned as no one will be able to compete anymore.


I was just going to post in this thread about this. Thanks


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul

FelixTrinidad said:


> Wilde's in ring brilliance leaves one feeling awed and inspired. Awed that we can witness such dazzling skills and inspired in that we as human beings can be capable of such skills.
> 
> Great pick.
> I'll put him at #90 .


What about Jeff Lacy?


----------



## the cobra

Jeramine Taylor should be higher. 75 is bullshit.


----------



## adamcanavan

Audley Harrison


----------



## Mugshot

Man, this list is ace.


----------



## SP_Mauker

Dempsey and Liston


----------



## Ivan Drago

Eoghan said:


> Coming from a man who lost to the Italian Stallion:lol:


Robbed. :deal

I had him down countless times any ref worth his salt would have stopped it.

I was also drugged, they injected me with so much shit it zapped all my energy.

Plus I gave the man brain damage.

My wife's hotter.










vs










He may have 'won' an insignificant farce of a boxing match, but I'm winning at life.


----------



## Eoghan

Ivan Drago said:


> Robbed. :deal
> 
> I had him down countless times any ref worth his salt would have stopped it.
> 
> I was also drugged, they injected me with so much shit it zapped all my energy.
> 
> Plus I gave the man brain damage.
> 
> My wife's hotter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He may have 'won' an insignificant farce of a boxing match, but I'm winning at life.


Only a British ref would have stopped that! And in a 'parallel universe', your wife ended up with Rocky. You had the talent, just not the heart, you were great at giving it out, but not so great at taking it


----------



## Ivan Drago

Eoghan said:


> Only a British ref would have stopped that! And in a 'parallel universe', your wife ended up with Rocky. You had the talent, just not the heart, you were great at giving it out, but not so great at taking it


In that 'parallel universe' this happened:

_"Lundgren had punched his chest so hard that his heart hit his breastbone and had begun to swell. His blood pressure was higher than 200. It's a good thing Stallone sought medical attention, because if he hadn't, his heart would have continued to swell until it stopped"_

Of course the version of the fight you've seen is pure American propaganda the world would've been devastated seeing their hero destroyed by Russia's finest.

I took his best shots and kept coming that 'no heart' argument comes from the cruel stereoptype of Russian boxers being cold and machine-like. Completely unfounded.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

SP_Mauker said:


> Dempsey and Liston


Great great contributions.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Kind of amazing to think I only got 7 spots left.. months of hard work nearing the finish line.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> What about Jeff Lacy?


Lacy is not worthy of a top 1000 list much less top 100. Top 100 is reserved for elite level fighters who's proven beyond doubt they are ATGS in skills and in resume.
Lacy was a fucking bum dude.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul

FelixTrinidad said:


> Lacy is not worthy of a top 1000 list much less top 100. Top 100 is reserved for elite level fighters who's proven beyond doubt they are ATGS in skills and in resume.
> Lacy was a fucking bum dude.


What about Paul Spadafora?

What about Demarcus Corley?


----------



## doylexxx

too many HWs at the top

but I cant critisize , guy did his full 100 list

great work


----------



## FelixTrinidad

doylexxx said:


> too many HWs at the top
> 
> but I cant critisize , guy did his full 100 list
> 
> *great work*


Thank you. I'm almost done.. Good to see my work being appreciated.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> What about Paul Spadafora?
> 
> What about Demarcus Corley?


I'm thinking of adding in Sergio Martinez simply for his great domination of Boxing's 2nd premier Division.

What do you think?

I think Martinez definitely have a claim.


----------



## DaCrooked

I respect him for taking the time and effort to put together a list. Salute for that. But Margarito is top anything.


----------



## Hands of Iron

Sumbu Kalambay :smile


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Kalambay is a great call. ATG Talent. Worthy of a top 100 place.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

DaCrooked said:


> I respect him for taking the time and effort to put together a list. Salute for that. But Margarito is top anything.


Margarito defeated TWO PRIME Hall of Famers in Cotto and Martinez.
I think he also took BOTH their '0'S
Name me someone else who took two '0's like that in recent years?

Margarito's resume speaks for itself. Gloves or not.. this guy in his Prime had a granite chin, good power, and relentless pressure.
He also started the decline of Pacquaio.


----------



## Hands of Iron

FelixTrinidad said:


> Kalambay is a great call. ATG Talent. Worthy of a top 100 place.


Pretty definitively beat an undefeated Mike McCallum


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Here is a part of a short piece I did on Antonio Margarito. I submitted it to Bleachers Report:

"Misunderstood Champion'

Antonio Margarito at his best was a Welterweight's nightmare. Tall,rangy,granite chin, and relentless in pressure.. Margarito in many ways was a bigger version of Roberto Duran. From the flying hair, to the cocky smile, from the snarl that seem to forever be placed on their faces, to the warrior heart so fueled by their collective souls.. Antonio was Duran with a chin. Taking the zeros of Prime Cotto and Prime Martinez.. speaks of a pair of wins so unsurpassed since the days that P4P Great Roy Jones took Hopkins and Toney.... Margarito put forth what we call educated calculated pressure as oppose to ineffective aggressiveness the likes of Rios.
When Tony hits.. you hurt and that's the bottom line for any opponent that ever fought Antonio at his very best. An assassin in the ring but a gentleman outside it.. The TJ Tornado was a true icon of Mexican Solider spirit.. Never say Die. Never say quit.. We are forever in debt to the wars Margarito brought us............


----------



## FelixTrinidad

I'm torn right now between Sergio Martinez or Hector Camacho.............. Camacho got an ATG win over Leonard but Martinez have ruled the MW Division with an IRON FIST. He also beaten two ATG'S in their primes. Comacho's win over Leonard was a bit over the due date but that version of Leonard was still as good as Pavlik.
I don't know.. very very tough call.

One thing is for sure.. both are top 100 fighters of all times. It's not that which so got me frustrated but the ACTUAL placement per se of these two elite level fighters.


----------



## Hands of Iron

How about Julian Jackson, Felix? 

Wiped out perennial top three 154lb ATG Terry Norris in 2 rounds. Wasted the fantastic and crafty Herol Graham.











There's a tremendous chance he could've KTFO a 154 lb Hearns.


----------



## DaCrooked

FelixTrinidad said:


> Margarito defeated TWO PRIME Hall of Famers in Cotto and Martinez.
> I think he also took BOTH their '0'S
> Name me someone else who took two '0's like that in recent years?
> 
> Margarito's resume speaks for itself. Gloves or not.. this guy in his Prime had a granite chin, good power, and relentless pressure.
> He also started the decline of Pacquaio.


Sergio Martinez was not in his prime when he fought Margarito. He had only been boxing for about 3 or 4 years. It's just like making torrecampo an ATG because he stopped Pac.

Margarito was a cheater who got spanked by P-will, stopped by Cotto, raped by Pac, and beaten into submission by Mosely. He never moved up and fought bigger opponents. He always had a size advantage


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Hands of Iron said:


> How about Julian Jackson, Felix?
> 
> Wiped out perennial top three 154lb ATG Terry Norris in 2 rounds. Wasted the fantastic and crafty Herol Graham.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a tremendous chance he could've KTFO a 154 lb Hearns.


Fantastic find.. I must say your boxing knowledge is slowly but surely over taking that of Mcgrain's and Cobra's.

:happy

Although the last few spots will always be tough because there's just so many great fighters throughout history which I have to cut out.

It breaks my heart that I might have to cut out the likes of Adonis Stevenson and Tim Bradley... when they both hold wins over ATGS.

Jackson is a great call.

When I was a kid I was convinced Julian Jackson must have been the hardest puncher p4p that ever existed.. As I got older .. I became convinced he was not.

Now as I'm watching tapes in a quiet room of Jackson destroying Leonard Killer Terry Norris and putting the fantastic Graham to sleep.. I wonder... I just wonder if maybe............ Jackson was indeed the hardest p4p hitter to ever exist?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

DaCrooked said:


> Sergio Martinez was not in his prime when he fought Margarito. He had only been boxing for about 3 or 4 years. It's just like making torrecampo an ATG because he stopped Pac.
> 
> Margarito was a cheater who got spanked by* P-will, stopped by Cotto, raped by Pac, and beaten into submission by Mosely*. He never moved up and fought bigger opponents. He always had a size advantage


You just named 4 ATGS.....
Duran got his ass knocked out by Hearns and tkoed by Leonard. He also lost to Hagler... Losing to ATGS is no shame.

Also Margarito beat PRIME Cotto.. Did you forget that?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

DaCrooked said:


> Sergio Martinez was not in his prime when he fought Margarito. He had only been boxing for about 3 or 4 years. It's just like making torrecampo an ATG because he stopped Pac.
> 
> Margarito was a cheater who got spanked by P-will, stopped by Cotto, raped by Pac, and beaten into submission by Mosely. He never moved up and fought bigger opponents. He always had a size advantage


Once again I have to stress this:
Pacquaio is the 17th greatest fighter of all times.
Williams is the 57th
Martinez is the 58th
Mosley 77th
Cotto is the 96th.

There is NO SHAME in going 2-4 against 5 Bonafide ATGS.
He fought a total of SIX WARS against ATGS..
Duran was like 1-5 against ATGS.

It is intellectually dishonest for me to say Margarito is not a great fighter when he holds wins
over two top 100 fighters during their youth/primes.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

If you don't count Margarito's win over Martinez..

you can not count Roy Jones's win over Hopkins................


----------



## DaCrooked

FelixTrinidad said:


> Once again I have to stress this:
> Pacquaio is the 17th greatest fighter of all times.
> Williams is the 57th
> Martinez is the 58th
> Mosley 77th
> Cotto is the 96th.
> 
> There is NO SHAME in going 2-4 against 5 Bonafide ATGS.
> He fought a total of SIX WARS against ATGS..
> Duran was like 1-5 against ATGS.
> 
> It is intellectually dishonest for me to say Margarito is not a great fighter when he holds wins
> over two top 100 fighters during their youth/primes.


If Martinez was in his prime, than Pacqauio was in his when he got stopped by Torrecampo. He cheated against Cotto. He spent his whole damn career at WW picking on smaller men. His shitty, ass no skilled style was totally based on him being larger than his opponent.


----------



## Bogotazo

Haven't you never watched a non-heavyweight fight from start to finish until last Saturday?


----------



## Bogotazo

Williams and Martinez inside the top 100 fighters ever?!

Floyd and JMM in the top 20? 

I'm sorry this list is garbage.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Bogotazo said:


> Haven't you never watched a non-heavyweight fight from start to finish until last Saturday?


Ya.. but that doesn't mean I can't do research regarding the fighters I ranked..

I put together a variety of posts from all the top posters on ESB(CHB),NSB,Boxing A, Boxrec, etc Saddo etc..
All the Bleacher reports.. etc

Personal emails from my Uncle and Dan Rafael, Kellerman,Lampley. etc

I got more than enough information to make a top 100 list.

As most classics posters will tell you.. you don't REALLY need footage... to rank a fighter high.:hey


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Bogotazo said:


> Williams and Martinez inside the top 100 fighters ever?!
> 
> Floyd and JMM in the top 20?
> 
> I'm sorry this list is garbage.


Ya I accept that. All writers need their critics. I accept criticism. I'm not a Nazi.


----------



## Bogotazo

FelixTrinidad said:


> Ya.. but that doesn't mean I can't do research regarding the fighters I ranked..
> 
> I put together a variety of posts from all the top posters on ESB(CHB),NSB,Boxing A, Boxrec, etc Saddo etc..
> All the Bleacher reports.. etc
> 
> Personal emails from my Uncle and Dan Rafael, Kellerman,Lampley. etc
> 
> I got more than enough information to make a top 100 list.
> 
> As most classics posters will tell you.. you don't REALLY need footage... to rank a fighter high.:hey


The only reason you don't need footage of certain fighters is because you have footage of the fighters they beat.

Second-hand accounts aren't good enough. You're not making a top 100 list, you're amalgamating one out of other people's.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

DaCrooked said:


> If Martinez was in his prime, than Pacqauio was in his when he got stopped by Torrecampo. He cheated against Cotto. He spent his whole damn career at WW picking on smaller men. His shitty, ass no skilled style was totally based on him being larger than his opponent.


If it REALLY bothers you that much regarding Margarito being a top 100 fighter.. I'll personally investigate his career again just for you. I guess a case could be made he falls into 101-104... there's a HELLA lot of great fighters from 90-110.. some will be left out. It's just math.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Bogotazo said:


> The only reason you don't need footage of certain fighters is because you have footage of the fighters they beat.
> 
> Second-hand accounts aren't good enough. You're not making a top 100 list, you're amalgamating one out of other people's.


Well that's why I'm not done yet Bogotazo.. Give me time.. The list is NOT complete.............. Rankings are SUBJECT to change.
I'm watching some of these fighters as we speak... Trust me.. The list WILL be perfect.


----------



## Bogotazo

FelixTrinidad said:


> Well that's why I'm not done yet Bogotazo.. Give me time.. The list is NOT complete.............. Rankings are SUBJECT to change.
> I'm watching some of these fighters as we speak... Trust me.. The list WILL be perfect.


Oh alright. Sorry for being harsh on the outset.

I've started compiling my own list after seeing yours. So thanks for the inspiration.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Bogotazo said:


> Haven't you never watched a non-heavyweight fight from start to finish until last Saturday?


I want to correct this. I said I never watched a NON HW FIGHT from START to FINISH .. prior to Pac-Rios.

That does not mean my knowledge is not sufficient.
Sure I skipped parts of Round 3/4/5 in regards to Leonard-Hearns I... but I still watched the vast majority of that fight.. enough for me to understand the skills on display.

Same thing with say Mayweather/Castillo.
Ya I skipped parts of Rounds 2, 5, etc... but I watched ENOUGH to get a adequate knowledge of their skills etc.
Plus I'm watching them all now............ This list will be perfect.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Bogotazo said:


> Oh alright. Sorry for being harsh on the outset.
> 
> *I've started compiling my own list after seeing yours.* So thanks for the inspiration.


I am VERY eager to see your list.


----------



## Vic

Did you include Adrian Diaconu and Edison Miranda already ?


----------



## Vic

How about Jan Zaveck to complete this fantastic list of yours ?


----------



## Vic

@FelixTrinidad, how about Cornelius Bundrage to complete your great list of ATGs ?

Ken Norton above Roy Jones, sounds about right, people simply don´t have balls to say that, you have them, good one.
Edison Miranda is greater than Roy though.....this list is not compelte without this.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Vic said:


> Did you include Adrian Diaconu and *Edison Miranda* already ?


Yes and I gave you credit for it. Diaconu was a bum.. sorry, I watched like a few minutes of his fights and he is utterly shit.

But Miranda impressed the Hell out of Me. I actually did a piece on him in Bleacher Reports.

Here is part of the article I wrote(which I submitted)

'They said all dreams must start somewhere.. For Edison's his dreams started in the dirt farm he grew up in. Having to kill cattles for meat and survival, having to eat lizards and rats just to get by.. Miranda knows the true meaning of suffering.. Instead of giving in to proverty.. he channeled that energy into one of the most exciting packages the 160-168 Divisions ever seen. 
Someone once told me.. 'I see a lot of Matthrew Saad Muhammad in Edison Miranda' I told him.. 'I see a lot of Edison Miranda in Matthrew Saad Muhammad'.. it's not just the way Miranda jabs.. but the rocket like precision and laser beam like energy which he put into these jabs.. The true definition of a boxer-puncher-mover.. Edison's dazzling skills and brilliance is a welcome relief to these begging for the talent that seem so far removed from today's boxing world... ....


----------



## Vic

FelixTrinidad said:


> 79-Edison Miranda(Credit to Vic)


You are a great man, Felix. :deal :good


----------



## Bogotazo

FelixTrinidad said:


> I am VERY eager to see your list.


Not nearly ready enough.



FelixTrinidad said:


> I want to correct this. I said I never watched a NON HW FIGHT from START to FINISH .. prior to Pac-Rios.
> 
> That does not mean my knowledge is not sufficient.
> Sure I skipped parts of Round 3/4/5 in regards to Leonard-Hearns I... but I still watched the vast majority of that fight.. enough for me to understand the skills on display.
> 
> Same thing with say Mayweather/Castillo.
> Ya I skipped parts of Rounds 2, 5, etc... but I watched ENOUGH to get a adequate knowledge of their skills etc.
> Plus I'm watching them all now............ This list will be perfect.


Yeah you need to watch full fights bro. Your knowledge is dependent on your viewing the fights. Getting "a feel" for fighters just isn't enough.

The way I got my knowledge is evaluating eras and rivalries. So I'd look at a particular weight class in a particular decade with a slew of highly regarded fighters. I'd look at some of their lead up quality fights (and the lead of fights of their _opponents)_), to get a sense of what to expect, then watch them face off against each other. The Fab 4 was perfect for this. The Golden Age of Heavyweights was also great. Watch guys like Bonavena and Cooper, then watch Ali fight them, watch Foster and Quarry, then watch them fight Frazier, then watch Frazier and Ali fight. It's time consuming but that's the best way to do it. That way you can see how far up the ladder these guys were in their time, and all time.

My advice anyway.


----------



## Luf

FFS


----------



## DirtyDan

David Haye should be higher.

Edison Miranda as well, it's an insult to not put him in the top 50 greatest boxers of all time.


----------



## MadcapMaxie

What a shockingly good list.

Terry Norris deserves a top 100 spot.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

DirtyDan said:


> *David Haye should be higher.
> *
> Edison Miranda as well, it's an insult to not put him in the top 50 greatest boxers of all time.


No.. David Haye is a great fighter but he is right where he should be. Fantastic fighter though.

Here is part of a article I did on David Haye.. Bleacher Report Submission.

" Someone once told me that God created the Lions so Hyenas will know their place in life, David Haye's very existence just made that person a liar. Haye is the hyena that taunts the lions of the Division in such ways that the lions are often left confused and befuddled as to how their supposed prey managed to evade their snapping jaws time and time again.. A combination of sheer offensive power and defensive wizardly.. Haye managed to move through the weight classes with ease.. leaving a trail of destruction along the way.. His in ring acuteness is only heightened when the challenges loom larger. Movement and foot work only a slight par below that of Robinson and Duran..... it is not so much his unique style of counter punching but his UNIQUE style of creating counters WITHIN the counters that so set him apart from the rest of boxing's counter elites... A true phenom and a once in a generation talent that has been often plagued with injury yet still managed to deliver the most classic of knock outs and most heart thumping of fights .. Haye's very mastery of the boxing arts leaves one smiling..


----------



## FelixTrinidad

MadcapMaxie said:


> What a shockingly good list.
> 
> Terry Norris deserves a top 100 spot.


Moved him to #45 .. Guy was a true phenom at 154 and arguably on par with Mike Maccallum in terms of SHEER abilities.


----------



## MadcapMaxie

FelixTrinidad said:


> Moved him to #45 .. Guy was a true phenom at 154 and arguably on par with Mike Maccallum in terms of SHEER abilities.


Also AZUMAH NELSON!!! Can't believe you don't have him


----------



## FelixTrinidad

I'm moving Vitali Klitschko up 10 places because of the riot.. That was pure gangster.


----------



## Vic

FelixTrinidad said:


> I'm moving Vitali Klitschko up 10 places because of the riot.. That was pure gangster.


How about Kirk Johnson and Fres Oquendo to those 2 last spots, man ?


----------



## dyna

Vic said:


> How about Kirk Johnson and *Fres Oquendo* to those 2 last spots, man ?


And put John Ruiz as 99, Fres at 100.

Ruiz is still Kirk his papi.
(Yes, they were lowblows. And it was falling into Ruiz' lap in the end)


----------



## FelixTrinidad

I just realized my list isn't perfect because I have some old timers that nobody even heard of or seen.

I will fix this.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Vic said:


> How about Kirk Johnson and Fres Oquendo to those 2 last spots, man ?


Those guys have done nothing of note... Sorry.


----------



## Eoghan

FelixTrinidad said:


> I'm currently at #77 .. Any advice regarding 78-100?
> Anybody I'm missing from my list that you feel is worthy of being a Top 100 fighter of all times?
> Thanks.
> 
> The 100 Greatest Boxers of all times.
> 1-Muhammad Ali
> 2-Sugar Ray Robinson
> 3-Ezzard Charles
> 4-Archie Moore
> 5-Joe Louis
> 6-Marvin Hagler
> 7-Sugar Ray Leonard
> 8-Tommy Hearns
> 9-Roberto Duran
> 10-Lennox Lewis
> 11-Evander Holyfield
> 12-Joe Frazier
> 13-Mike Tyson
> 14-George Foreman
> 15-Bernard Hopkins
> 16-Floyd Mayweather Jr
> 17-Manny Pacquaio
> 18-Nasam Hassem
> 19-Michael Spinks
> 20-Ricardo Lopez
> 21-Juilo Cesar Chavez Senior
> 22-Vitali Klitschko
> 23-Ken Norton
> 24-Roy Jones Jr
> 25-Mike Mccalum
> 26-Antonio Tarver
> 27-JMM
> 28-Marcio Antonio Barrera
> 29-Erik Morales
> 30-Dwight Qawi
> 31-Wladimir Klitschko
> 32-Oscar De La Hoya
> 33-Ike Quartey
> 34-James Toney
> 35-Chris Eubank
> 36-Nigel Benn
> 37-*Steve Collins*
> 38-Visaly Jirov
> 39-David Haye
> 40-Pernell Whitaker
> 41-Henry Greb
> 42-Bob Foster
> 43-Michael Nunn
> 44-Gerald Mccellan
> 45-Terry Norris(Credit to MadMaxie)
> 46-Razer Ruddock
> 47-Bob Fitzsimmons
> 48-Glen Johnson
> 49-Alexander Povetkin
> 50-Jake La Motta
> 51-David Tua
> 52- Ike Ibebecuhi
> 53-Tommy Morrison
> 54-Carlos Monzon
> 55-Joe Brown
> 56-Vernon Forrest
> 57-Paul Williams
> 58-Sergio Martinez
> 59-Gennady Golevkin
> 60-Tiger Flowers
> 61-Leon Spinks
> 62-Joe Calzaghe
> 63-Mikeel Kessler
> 64-Ruben Olivares
> 65-Gary Mason
> 66-Andre Ward
> 67-Felix Sturm
> 68-Chad Dawson
> 69-Riddick Bowe
> 70-Tony Tucker
> 71-Tyrell Biggs
> 72-Edwin Valero
> 73-Manuel Ortiz
> 74-Larry Holmes
> 75-Jeramine Taylor
> 76-Kelly Pavlik
> 77-Shane Mosley
> 78-Jack Johnson(Credit to Chatty)
> 79-Edison Miranda(Credit to Vic)
> 80-Willie Pep (Credit to Undefeated_Gaul)
> 81-Barney Ross (Credit to Undefeated_Gaul)
> 82-Rocky Marciano(Credit to MadcapMaxie)
> 83-Dick Tiger(Credit to MadcapMaxie)
> 84-Joshua Clottey(Credit to Thanatos)
> 85-Gene Tunney(Credit to Thanatos)
> 86-Edwin Valero (Credit to Thanatos)
> 87-George Chuvalo(Credit to Thanatos)
> 88-Alexis Arguelleo(Credit to Thanatos)
> 89-John Ruiz(Credit to Thanatos)
> 90-Jimmy Wilde(Credit to Vanes)
> 91-William Joppy
> 92-Jack Dempsey (Credit to SP-Mauler)
> 93-Sonny Liston(Credit to SP-Mauler)
> 94- Antonio Margarito
> 95-Sumbu Kalambay(Credit to Hands of Iron)
> 96-Miguel Cotto
> 97-Julian Jackson(Credit to Hands of Iron)
> 98-Frank Bruno


I am crying tears of joy at #37- my dad's hero. Well, I'd have liked to have seen him above the guys he beat twice, but there you go


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Eoghan said:


> I am crying tears of joy at #37- my dad's hero. Well, I'd have liked to have seen him above the guys he beat twice, but there you go


Ya... you are 100% right.. It is absurd to put Collins BELOW Benn and Eubank when he beat them both.

Great point and Imma change it..


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Eoghan said:


> I am crying tears of joy at #37- my dad's hero. Well, I'd have liked to have seen him above the guys he beat twice, but there you go


I bumped him up to #29 ...


----------



## Vic

FelixTrinidad said:


> Those guys have done nothing of note... Sorry.


Fine! Keep being stuborn!

How about Derrick Jefferson ?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

I think I got Manny Pacquaio too low .. I'm going to do some more research.

He is history's only Eight Division Champion.. I need to seriously consider putting him in top 10.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Vic said:


> Fine! Keep being stuborn!
> 
> How about Derrick Jefferson ?


I admire your efforts Vic.. but you must remember to conduct research PRIOR to randomly throwing out names at me.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=7884&cat=boxer

According to Boxrec.. Jefferson was knocked the fuck out by Izon,Williamson,Oleg,AND Wladimir.

His best win is Bert Cooper(who according to Boxrec got 25 losses himself !!!).

No Jefferson isn't even Hall of Fame much less ATG Top 100.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

I need to replace Manuel Ortiz and Joe Brown....... two good fighters.. but after thinking it over I realized I made a mistake in putting them at top 100.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Replaced Brown and Ortiz with Dariusz Michalczewski and Sven Ottke.

Dariuz and Sven's combined stats:

*44 consecutive Title Defenses.*


----------



## Drew101

Witherspoon been mentioned yet as a condidate?


----------



## Hands of Iron

Drew101 said:


> Witherspoon been mentioned yet as a condidate?


I posted a fantastic interview with Sumbu Kalambay on the last page of Flea's thread in Historical. Doesn't seem the sport cost him a single brain cell. He's a complete class act too.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Drew101 said:


> Witherspoon been mentioned yet as a condidate?


Thinking about replacing someone and putting in Witherspoon. I'm going to do write ups of each fighter like Mcgrain did.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Hands of Iron said:


> I posted a fantastic interview with Sumbu Kalambay on the last page of Flea's thread in Historical. Doesn't seem the sport cost him a single brain cell. He's a complete class act too.


So what you are saying is I should have him ahead of Antonio Margarito?
:huh but Margarito defeated a PRIME Cotto.
I'll think about this one.


----------



## Hands of Iron

FelixTrinidad said:


> So what you are saying is I should have him ahead of Antonio Margarito?
> :huh but Margarito defeated a PRIME Cotto.
> I'll think about this one.


Kalambay virtually shutout a Prime McCallum (32-0).

No offense, but Cotto(e) cant hold McCallum's jockstrap at anything side from taking a knee.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Hands of Iron said:


> Kalambay virtually shutout a Prime McCallum (32-0).
> 
> No offense, but Cotto(e) cant hold McCallum's jockstrap at anything side from taking a knee.


Interesting............ but Margarito also took Sergio's '0' I'll think about this as I review both fighters.
:hey


----------



## Hands of Iron

FelixTrinidad said:


> Interesting............ but Margarito also took Sergio's '0' I'll think about this as I review both fighters.
> :hey


As long as the FOUR KINGS of:

Mike McCALLUM
James TONEY
Michael NUNN
Sumbu KALAMBAY

are all included, I think we'll be ok.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Hands of Iron said:


> As long as the FOUR KINGS of:
> 
> Mike McCALLUM
> James TONEY
> Michael NUNN
> Sumbu KALAMBAY
> 
> are all included, I think we'll be ok.


Ya I'll probably include Nunn........ Roy ducked him so that counts as a Win on my list.


----------



## MadcapMaxie

Felix you HAVE to include Azumah Nelson. Dude was a beast.


----------



## Hands of Iron

FelixTrinidad said:


> Ya I'll probably include Nunn........ Roy ducked him so that counts as a Win on my list.


So McCallum gets additional wins over Duran and Hearns? :hey


----------



## FelixTrinidad

MadcapMaxie said:


> Felix you HAVE to include Azumah Nelson. Dude was a beast.


Ya he was a beast. I'm watching his highlights now. He KO people good man.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Thinking about moving Sergio Martinez higher.. Guy is 51-2.. that is beast numbers.


----------



## Slick and Jewish

FelixTrinidad said:


> I'm currently at #77 .. Any advice regarding 78-100?
> Anybody I'm missing from my list that you feel is worthy of being a Top 100 fighter of all times?
> Thanks.
> 
> The 100 Greatest Boxers of all times.
> 1-Muhammad Ali
> 2-Sugar Ray Robinson
> 3-Lennox Lewis
> 4-Manny Pacquaio
> 5-Joe Louis
> 6-Floyd Mayweather Jr
> 7-Sugar Ray Leonard
> 8-Tommy Hearns
> 9-Roberto Duran
> 10-Ezzard Charles
> 11-Evander Holyfield
> 12-Joe Frazier
> 13-Mike Tyson
> 14-George Foreman
> 15-Bernard Hopkins
> 16-Marvin Hagler
> 17-Archie Moore
> 18-Nasam Hassem
> 19-Michael Spinks
> 20-Ricardo Lopez
> 21-Juilo Cesar Chavez Senior
> 22-Vitali Klitschko
> 23-Ken Norton
> 24-Tim Bradley
> 25-Mike Mccalum
> 26-Antonio Tarver
> 27-JMM
> 28-Marcio Antonio Barrera
> 29-Steve Collins
> 30-Dwight Qawi
> 31-Wladimir Klitschko
> 32-Oscar De La Hoya
> 33-Ike Quartey
> 34-James Toney
> 35-Chris Eubank
> 36-Nigel Benn
> 37-Eric Morales
> 38-Visaly Jirov
> 39-David Haye
> 40-Pernell Whitaker
> 41-Henry Greb
> 42-Bob Foster
> 43-Michael Nunn
> 44-Gerald Mccellan
> 45-Terry Norris(Credit to MadMaxie)
> 46-Razer Ruddock
> 47-Bob Fitzsimmons
> 48-Glen Johnson
> 49-Alexander Povetkin
> 50-Jake La Motta
> 51-David Tua
> 52- Ike Ibebecuhi
> 53-Tommy Morrison
> 54-Carlos Monzon
> 55-Dariusz Michalczewski
> 56-Vernon Forrest
> 57-Paul Williams
> 58-Sergio Martinez
> 59-Gennady Golevkin
> 60-Roy Jones Jr
> 61-Leon Spinks
> 62-Joe Calzaghe
> 63-Mikeel Kessler
> 64-Ruben Olivares
> 65-Gary Mason
> 66-Andre Ward
> 67-Felix Sturm
> 68-Chad Dawson
> 69-Riddick Bowe
> 70-Tony Tucker
> 71-Tyrell Biggs
> 72-Edwin Valero
> 73-Sven Ottke
> 74-Larry Holmes
> 75-Jeramine Taylor
> 76-Kelly Pavlik
> 77-Shane Mosley
> 78-Jack Johnson(Credit to Chatty)
> 79-Edison Miranda(Credit to Vic)
> 80-Willie Pep (Credit to Undefeated_Gaul)
> 81-Barney Ross (Credit to Undefeated_Gaul)
> 82-Rocky Marciano(Credit to MadcapMaxie)
> 83-Dick Tiger(Credit to MadcapMaxie)
> 84-Joshua Clottey(Credit to Thanatos)
> 85-Gene Tunney(Credit to Thanatos)
> 86-Edwin Valero (Credit to Thanatos)
> 87-George Chuvalo(Credit to Thanatos)
> 88-Alexis Arguelleo(Credit to Thanatos)
> 89-John Ruiz(Credit to Thanatos)
> 90-Jimmy Wilde(Credit to Vanes)
> 91-William Joppy
> 92-Jack Dempsey (Credit to SP-Mauler)
> 93-Sonny Liston(Credit to SP-Mauler)
> 94- Antonio Margarito
> 95-Sumbu Kalambay(Credit to Hands of Iron)
> 96-Miguel Cotto
> 97-Julian Jackson(Credit to Hands of Iron)
> 98-Frank Bruno


Sugar Nikolai Valuev


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Slick and Jewish said:


> Sugar Nikolai Valuev


I'll think about it.


----------



## Pimp C

:rofl:lol::rofl
Best list ever. You know what Felix. I think me and you got off on the wrong foot. You're ok in my book.:cheers I do have some suggestions Glen Johnson Tyson Furry and Ricardo Mayorga.


----------



## Floyd_g.o.a.t

Check out Joe Gans if he's already not been mentioned.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Pimp C said:


> :rofl:lol::rofl
> Best list ever. You know what Felix. I think me and you got off on the wrong foot. You're ok in my book.:cheers I do have some suggestions Glen Johnson Tyson Furry and Ricardo Mayorga.


I got Glen Johnson.. Great great suggestion man.
He knocked out Roy Jones Jr who was the fighter of the decade...You know he also won every round prior to the KO right?


----------



## Vic

FelixTrinidad said:


> I got Glen Johnson.. Great great suggestion man.
> He knocked out Roy Jones Jr who was the fighter of the decade...You know he also won every round prior to the KO right?


Oleg Maskaev ?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

I know this might be controversial but I'm thinking about taking out Henry Greb.. because of the utter lack of film footage.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Fuck it. I'm starting over..

And this time I will do a mini biography Mcgrain style .. of every boxer from 100 to 1.


----------



## OttkeRuiz

Sultan Ibragimov


----------



## FelixTrinidad

#100  (Greatest fighters of all times count Down)

#100 
Glen Johnson









One of the most underated boxers of any generation, Glen Johnson stakes his claim at #100 . The Jamician is the very example of courage,dedication, and elite level volume punching. Johnson went on a tear to start off his career at MW. 
Dominating 32 straight fighters with his surreal volume punching, beating out dangerous fighters like Ralph Monday,Jeff Johnson,Tom Bentley,and Gerald Reed. He suffered his first loss to Bernard Hopkins in a brutal back and forth battle and was than robbed agaisnt Sos and Kiwanuka. 
Johnson went on a 2nd run after moving up to Super Middle Weight, only to be stopped by fellow ATG Sven Ottke in a dazzling 12 round contest. Johnson reinvented his style and changed his volume punching to a more stylish approach.. His big night came against Fighter of the Decade Roy Jones Jr who he managed to outbox for 9 straight rounds prior to the brutal and vicious knock out which left Jones Jr comatose for 10 minutes. Johnson went on to meet fellow Roy Conqueror Motell Griffin in a thrilling contest which saw Johnson emerge victorius in the 11th....

Glen Johnson retired from boxing after giving Golden Boy George Groves all that he could handle. Johnson #100.


----------



## the cobra

FelixTrinidad is an amazing person.

Not the actual Felix Trinidad, mind you. This poster guy. He does McGrain-type shit, but, you know, shitty-like. 

Amazing.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#99 
Adonis Stevenson
*









One of the great Southpaw killers of our era, Stevenson brings lightning and thunder to every match he's ever been in. Growing up in poverty with a troubled past, Stevenson changed all that by becoming Light Heavy Weight Champion with one massive punch which destroyed fellow ATG LHW Chad Dawson's entire soul. Stevenson is a unique counter punching aggressive slick athletic fighter and controls range/distance with a phenomenal jab. Stevenson torn through the super middle weight Division with knock out after knock out and was avoided by everyone in the weight class. Ward,Froch,Bute,and Kessler all made sure they never had to fight him and instead went on to fight each other. Forced to move up, Stevenson did so with a fury...... Against 3 elite level LHWS in Dawson,Cloud,and Bellow.. Stevenson did not even lose a round. Light Heavy Weight has turned out to be his true niche and he is still writing his history as we speak.


----------



## Theron

FelixTrinidad said:


> I'll put in Johnson.. I don't have enough footage of Armstrong to make a legitimate case for him, but I'll trust your words.


So you don't have Marcel Cerdan in you list?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#98 Carl Froch*










Carl once said that the Super Middle Weight Division was his 2nd love behind his wife. He have proven that by never once going below or above 168 pounds. The fearless Polish/Nottingham warrior in many ways remind us of a George Foreman as he club his way into the Boxing's elites with thundering right hands and left hooks. Again and again he will pound his opponents into submission, snarling all the while like a beast of some kind.

He knocked out high touted MiddleWeight Great Jermain Taylor in a brutal contest of wills and skills.. and went into the Super Six with vicious intent. He roared and growled his way into the Finals defeating such notable fighters like Andre Dirrel, Arthur Abraham and Danish great Mikeel Viking Kessler. There he met his styles nightmare in Andre Ward.

They say every Ali have his Frazier. Ward was Karl's Frazier... he frustrated Karl at every turn and came out victorious in a razer thin fight. Karl went on to regroup and dominate P4P fighter Lucian Bute.. putting down the great Romanian Canadian with thumping body shots. Carl continues to impress and refuses to relinquish his position as the #1 Super Middle Weight............destroying Philly superstar Mack in a one sided beat down, beating Kessler in a heart jumping rematch and finally emerging victorious against the greatest young talent the SMW Division have seen in decades.

Froch is a loving family man and his story is far from done.. Will he surpass his fellow ATG SMW British counterparts in Nigel Benn,Steve Collins, and Chris Eubank? Only time will tell... but we will enjoy watching the ride.


----------



## DirtyDan

Where's Koki Kameda?


----------



## Theron

C'mon don't compare Froch to Foreman man, shit aint cool


----------



## Leftsmash

:lol: Philly superstar Yusuf Mack.

I love it.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#97 Roberto Duran*










What can I say about the legendary Hands of Stone that people haven't said already? Everyone know about his dominance in the light weights prior to moving up and taking one of the greatest '0's of all times. Ferocious, vicious,powerful,and tenacious... Hands of Stone deliver hands of pain to all comers. Great fighter that gave great fights and great memories.


----------



## Theron

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#97 Roberto Duran*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about the legendary Hands of Stone that people haven't said already? Everyone know about his dominance in the light weights prior to moving up and taking one of the greatest '0's of all times. Ferocious, vicious,powerful,and tenacious... Hands of Stone deliver hands of pain to all comers. Great fighter that gave great fights and great memories.


97... No, just no. :huh:bart:ibutt
Roberto Duran edges past Adonis Stevenson and Karl Froch coming in at 97, hear how that sounds man...
Just not right


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#96 
Roy Jones Jr*










When you think International Rap Superstar.. you think Roy Jones Jr.. One of the most gifted and dazzling rapper/fighters that ever existed. Roy despite having a very very weak chin dominated due to his sheer reflexes and athleticism. He ripped through the MW/SMW Divisions.. dingo punching is way to victory after victory.. He lost his '0' against fellow ATG Montell Griffin but avenged it in shockingly super fashion.. LEFT HOOK and y'all musta forgot was forever imprinted in our minds..

Roy jumped up to HW and fought elite level champion John Ruiz and beaten him in surreally shocking fashion. Left hook after left hook.. upper cut followed by beautiful jab. Roy Jones Jr proved his worth against a top level fighter 30 pounds heavier than he was. Going through the divisions like a TORNADO and a RABID DOG.. he showed everyone the true meaning of 'division hopping'.. Amazing fighter.....his chin finally gave out due to his loss of reflexes but when he had his reflexes.. Roy Jones Jr was a definite top 100 fighter of all times and I have him at #96 .
Y'all musta forgot.. no Roy we did not.


----------



## the cobra

FelixTrinidad said:


> When you think International Rap Superstar.. you think Roy Jones Jr..


:lol:



> Y'all musta forgot.. no Roy we did not.


:rofl


----------



## Leftsmash

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#96
> Roy Jones Jr*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you think International Rap Superstar.. you think Roy Jones Jr.. One of the most gifted and dazzling rapper/fighters that ever existed. Roy despite having a very very weak chin dominated due to his sheer reflexes and athleticism. He ripped through the MW/SMW Divisions.. dingo punching is way to victory after victory.. He lost his '0' against fellow ATG Montell Griffin but avenged it in shockingly super fashion.. LEFT HOOK and y'all musta forgot was forever imprinted in our minds..
> 
> Roy jumped up to HW and fought elite level champion John Ruiz and beaten him in surreally shocking fashion. Left hook after left hook.. upper cut followed by beautiful jab. Roy Jones Jr proved his worth against a top level fighter 30 pounds heavier than he was. Going through the divisions like a TORNADO and a RABID DOG.. he showed everyone the true meaning of 'division hopping'.. Amazing fighter.....his chin finally gave out due to his loss of reflexes but when he had his reflexes.. Roy Jones Jr was a definite top 100 fighter of all times and I have him at #96 .
> Y'all musta forgot.. no Roy we did not.


:rofl

And Felix, please don't repeat the myth about Roy having a glass jaw, his punch resistance only went to shit after dropping weight too fast.
And Roy should be down in the mid 20s :yep.

Otherwise that was awesome.


----------



## Pimp C

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#96
> Roy Jones Jr*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you think International Rap Superstar.. you think Roy Jones Jr.. One of the most gifted and dazzling rapper/fighters that ever existed. Roy despite having a very very weak chin dominated due to his sheer reflexes and athleticism. He ripped through the MW/SMW Divisions.. dingo punching is way to victory after victory.. He lost his '0' against fellow ATG Montell Griffin but avenged it in shockingly super fashion.. LEFT HOOK and y'all musta forgot was forever imprinted in our minds..
> 
> Roy jumped up to HW and fought elite level champion John Ruiz and beaten him in surreally shocking fashion. Left hook after left hook.. upper cut followed by beautiful jab. Roy Jones Jr proved his worth against a top level fighter 30 pounds heavier than he was. Going through the divisions like a TORNADO and a RABID DOG.. he showed everyone the true meaning of 'division hopping'.. Amazing fighter.....his chin finally gave out due to his loss of reflexes but when he had his reflexes.. Roy Jones Jr was a definite top 100 fighter of all times and I have him at #96 .
> Y'all musta forgot.. no Roy we did not.


:rofl:lol::rofl:lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#95
Fernando Vargas*










Tell me what's the first image that pops into your head when you hear these words: Courage,bravery,will power,excitement. If the answer is not Fernando Vargas than you need to watch more boxing.
Young El Terrible rose up through the ranks in spectacular fashion.. Creating lethal shockwaves as he fought a barrage of elite fighters at the tender age of 19. Going head to head and toe to toe against Quartey,Marquez,Campas,and Prime Winky Wright. He defeated them all.
The Wright fight was really one for the ages as the young Vargas out worked Young Wright with controlling of the center and body combinations. Dazzling fireworks and bursts of radiant lightning in every round.. it was one of the great 90's wins and Fernando proved his true talent that night. Vargas went on a tear through the 154 Division.. Ripping and gashing his way to the footsteps of non other than PR Great Felix Tito Trinidad. 
In one of the most beautiful and violent fights of all times.. Tito and Fernando went back and forth.. doing the great PR-Mexico riviarly FULL justice.
Trinidad eventually grinded Vargas down to take a beautiful TKO Win.. a win that will go down in the record books.

Vargas's relentless attributes and ferocity earns him a place in any ranking charts.

They said you can't spell M E X I C O without M.. I say you can't spell M E X I C O .. without 'O'.......... Fernand*O*.


----------



## Leftsmash

Ruiz & Valuev need to be in there, Ruiz of course for his wins over Holyfield, Rahman and Golota.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#94

Gary Mason
*










One of the most lethal punchers of all times.. Gary Mason holds a Knock out % of 34 KO/37 Wins. He have a shocking career of 37-1 and only had his '0' taken by ATG Lennox Lewis. Mason's punching tactics is unique in that he rarely needs to set anything up... vicious and brutal with either hand coming from all angles.. he was the very definition of an 'awkward killer'.
Anything he touches, he folds.(With the exception of Lewis).. the destroyer of destroyers... Mason holds big wins over Tillis,Ratiff, and USA Olympic Hero Tyrell Biggs.. A quiet gentleman outside the ring, Gary's hobbies include cooking meat and chopping meat. He have butcher shops and restaurants that sells meats.
A family man, a meat loving man, and a good man. That's what Mason was outside the ring.. but inside the ring he became a animal.. a stone cold killer with an attitude. Nothing was given to him for free.. everything he ever had he earned it with those giant sized mammoth fists of his... Mason is the very definition of a warrior role model. Brutal inside the circle, gentle outside. We miss you Gary. R I P.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Leftsmash said:


> Ruiz & Valuev need to be in there, Ruiz of course for his wins over Holyfield, Rahman and Golota.


They are there.. Ruiz and Valuev are both great champions... only haters who hate on their style/religion/nationality thinks otherwise.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#93 Sakio Bika

*










The deadly scorpion from Cameroon sinks his venom into the top 93. A famous TV Star and a local hero in Syndey.. Sakio Bika never needed boxing for money.. He boxed for the sheer joy of it. The sheer rush of taking punches on his granite chin and not blinking. The sheer blood pumping, heart altering, soul leaping act of violent warfare in the ring.

Bika strived for greatness from the very start.. He rushed through his division, heaping win after win on top of his resume before going over to Germany and getting a TD against German Champion Markus Beyer. Bika set his sights even higher after that and went for Welsh Legend Joe Calzaghe.. The two met in a clash that produced plenty of fireworks and high end drama. Bika came up short against Calzaghe and vowed to return stronger than ever..
He went on to destroy echapon Suwunnalird and Andre Thysse with a great display of punching and counter punching which left fans in awe of his masterful mastery of counters. Lucian Bute the legend of Romania stood in his way after and he once again showed his granite chin by absorbing Bute's best shots on a way to a very close loss.

Sakio's peak came when he upsetted undefeated crowd favorite Jean-Paul Mendy in a vicious beat down that derailed Mendy's career forever. Sakio pressed the action from the very start.. showering Mendy with a barrage of punches..pushing him back, hurting him, and eventually stopping him. It was Sakio's night and it was well deserved. Sakio was never the same after Mendy as he seem to have lost his dedication to the fine arts of pugilism. He devoted more and more time to his acting career and became a great family man,a loving husband to his beautiful wife.
Sakio Bika gave us many memorable nights.. Scopion King I honor you like you honored us with your skills and fists.


----------



## Rattler

1. Harry Greb
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Sam Langford
5. Ezzard Charles
6. Joe Gans
7. Bob Fitzsimmons
8. Mickey Walker
9. Muhammad Ali
10. Roberto Duran
11. Archie Moore
12. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
13. Joe Louis
14. Benny Leonard
15. Willie Pep
16. Barney Ross
17. Sugar Ray Leonard
18. Pernell Whitaker
19. Charley Burley
20. George Dixon
21. Terry McGovern
22. Marvin Hagler
23. Stanley Ketchel
24. Tony Canzoneri
25. Sandy Saddler
26. Holman Williams
27. Jimmy McLarnin
28. Packey McFarland
29. Billy Conn
30. Carlos Monzon
31. Roy Jones Jr.
32. Joe Walcott
33. Eder Jofre
34. Jack Britton
35. Tommy Hearns
36. Gene Tunney
37. Jimmy Wilde
38. Tommy Gibbons
39. Julio Cesar Chavez
40. Kid Gavilan
41. Emile Griffith
42. Jose Napoles
43. Ike Williams
44. Evander Holyfield
45. Bernard Hopkins
46. Jimmy Bivins
47. Michael Spinks
48. Tommy Ryan
49. Tommy Loughran
50. Alexis Arguello
51. Manny Pacquiao
52. Ruben Olivares
53. Carlos Ortiz
54. Jack Dillon
55. Fighting Harada
56. Ted Kid Lewis
57. Salvador Sanchez
58. Lou Ambers
59. Wilfredo Gomez
60. Rocky Marciano
61. Harold Johnson
62. Young Corbett III
63. Carmen Basilio
64. Mike Gibbons
65. Freddie Steele
66. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
67. Bob Foster
68. Freddie Welsh
69. Carlos Zarate
70. Miguel Canto
71. Abe Attell
72. Vicente Saldivar
73. Dick Tiger
74. Manuel Ortiz
75. Oscar De La Hoya
76. Larry Holmes
77. Wilfred Benitez
78. Mike McCallum
79. Azumah Nelson
80. Panama Al Brown
81. Marco Antonio Barrera
82. Erik Morales
83. Jim Driscoll
84. Lloyd Marshall
85. Smokin' Joe Frazier
86. Juan Manuel Marquez
87. Fritzie Zivic
88. Lennox Lewis
89. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
90. James Toney
91. Pascual Perez
92. Teddy Yarosz
93. Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
94. Jack Kid Berg
95. Nicolino Locche
96. Pete Herman
97. Mike Tyson
98. Tiger Flowers
99. Bob Montgomery
100. Beau Jack


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#93 Sakio Bika
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The deadly scorpion from Cameroon sinks his venom into the top 93. A famous TV Star and a local hero in Syndey.. Sakio Bika never needed boxing for money.. He boxed for the sheer joy of it. The sheer rush of taking punches on his granite chin and not blinking. The sheer blood pumping, heart altering, soul leaping act of violent warfare in the ring.
> 
> Bika strived for greatness from the very start.. He rushed through his division, heaping win after win on top of his resume before going over to Germany and getting a TD against German Champion Markus Beyer. Bika set his sights even higher after that and went for Welsh Legend Joe Calzaghe.. The two met in a clash that produced plenty of fireworks and high end drama. Bika came up short against Calzaghe and vowed to return stronger than ever..
> He went on to destroy echapon Suwunnalird and Andre Thysse with a great display of punching and counter punching which left fans in awe of his masterful mastery of counters. Lucian Bute the legend of Romania stood in his way after and he once again showed his granite chin by absorbing Bute's best shots on a way to a very close loss.
> 
> Sakio's peak came when he upsetted undefeated crowd favorite Jean-Paul Mendy in a vicious beat down that derailed Mendy's career forever. Sakio pressed the action from the very start.. showering Mendy with a barrage of punches..pushing him back, hurting him, and eventually stopping him. It was Sakio's night and it was well deserved. Sakio was never the same after Mendy as he seem to have lost his dedication to the fine arts of pugilism. He devoted more and more time to his acting career and became a great family man,*a loving husband to his beautiful wife.*
> Sakio Bika gave us many memorable nights.. Scopion King I honor you like you honored us with your skills and fists.


:rofl


----------



## Earl-Hickey

this is awesome


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#92 Pernell Whitakker*









Sweet Pea is sweet indeed.. Delicious southpaw who make the boxing hardcores drool and the casuals snore. Pea might have been boring for the casuals(and for me) but one cannot deny his sweetness. Candy corn jab with chocolate like movements. He give me a sweet tooth with his surreal defense. Robbed against Chavez.. he lost fair and square against Trinidad and gave Oscar a tough fight. 
To fully understand just how great Whitakker was.. one must understand how hard it would be to catch a pig dipped in butter. Catching Whitakker would be like catching a pig dipped in butter.. he EVADES punches and dodges jabs... he was the Black Neal. 
I forced myself to watch 5 of his fights and I realized that he was indeed a P4P Monster. Syrup and Jam. Basket Robbin's 91 flavors of Darkness. French Vanilla sweetner in that coffee and some hazelnuts. Pernell was everything and than some.. A true P4P GREAT.


----------



## One to watch

Rattler said:


> 1. Harry Greb
> 2. Sugar Ray Robinson
> 3. Henry Armstrong
> 4. Sam Langford
> 5. Ezzard Charles
> 6. Joe Gans
> 7. Bob Fitzsimmons
> 8. Mickey Walker
> 9. Muhammad Ali
> 10. Roberto Duran
> 11. Archie Moore
> 12. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
> 13. Joe Louis
> 14. Benny Leonard
> 15. Willie Pep
> 16. Barney Ross
> 17. Sugar Ray Leonard
> 18. Pernell Whitaker
> 19. Charley Burley
> 20. George Dixon
> 21. Terry McGovern
> 22. Marvin Hagler
> 23. Stanley Ketchel
> 24. Tony Canzoneri
> 25. Sandy Saddler
> 26. Holman Williams
> 27. Jimmy McLarnin
> 28. Packey McFarland
> 29. Billy Conn
> 30. Carlos Monzon
> 31. Roy Jones Jr.
> 32. Joe Walcott
> 33. Eder Jofre
> 34. Jack Britton
> 35. Tommy Hearns
> 36. Gene Tunney
> 37. Jimmy Wilde
> 38. Tommy Gibbons
> 39. Julio Cesar Chavez
> 40. Kid Gavilan
> 41. Emile Griffith
> 42. Jose Napoles
> 43. Ike Williams
> 44. Evander Holyfield
> 45. Bernard Hopkins
> 46. Jimmy Bivins
> 47. Michael Spinks
> 48. Tommy Ryan
> 49. Tommy Loughran
> 50. Alexis Arguello
> 51. Manny Pacquiao
> 52. Ruben Olivares
> 53. Carlos Ortiz
> 54. Jack Dillon
> 55. Fighting Harada
> 56. Ted Kid Lewis
> 57. Salvador Sanchez
> 58. Lou Ambers
> 59. Wilfredo Gomez
> 60. Rocky Marciano
> 61. Harold Johnson
> 62. Young Corbett III
> 63. Carmen Basilio
> 64. Mike Gibbons
> 65. Freddie Steele
> 66. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
> 67. Bob Foster
> 68. Freddie Welsh
> 69. Carlos Zarate
> 70. Miguel Canto
> 71. Abe Attell
> 72. Vicente Saldivar
> 73. Dick Tiger
> 74. Manuel Ortiz
> 75. Oscar De La Hoya
> 76. Larry Holmes
> 77. Wilfred Benitez
> 78. Mike McCallum
> 79. Azumah Nelson
> 80. Panama Al Brown
> 81. Marco Antonio Barrera
> 82. Erik Morales
> 83. Jim Driscoll
> 84. Lloyd Marshall
> 85. Smokin' Joe Frazier
> 86. Juan Manuel Marquez
> 87. Fritzie Zivic
> 88. Lennox Lewis
> 89. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
> 90. James Toney
> 91. Pascual Perez
> 92. Teddy Yarosz
> 93. Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
> 94. Jack Kid Berg
> 95. Nicolino Locche
> 96. Pete Herman
> 97. Mike Tyson
> 98. Tiger Flowers
> 99. Bob Montgomery
> 100. Beau Jack


Bizarre list.

How can we take it seriously when you don't include gary mason or sakio bika.


----------



## Hands of Iron

#92 ? Jesus :-(


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#91 Andrew Golota*










Someone once told me that God created Germans so the Poles would not conquer Europe... I said if Poland had just 1000 Golotas.. World War Two would have ended in 1941.......... 6'4 and 240 pounds.. Golota was the very definition of a super heavyweight with skills. Hands like a welter and moving with the grace of a light weight.. Golota skates around the ring.. doing figure 8's of beautifully interwoven boxing poetry.

Dominating the likes of Marion Wilson and Dwyane Hall.. Golota roared his way to the top of the Heavyweight Contender list.. He twice defeated ATG Riddick Bowe and was the first Pole to reach the very top of the World.. He had it all. Palaces, tanks,cars,a beautiful wife, the worship of a Nation, and skills to make others die for. His run was ended by British God Lennox Lewis and he was left forever a shell of his once great self. History do not forget what he HAS done prior to Lewis though and history never will. 
My Uncle once told me that the true uniqueness of Golota was his creativity. Instead of throwing out a lone jab.. he throws out two. Instead of punching with a straight right and following it up with a left hook.. he punches with a straight right and hit you in the Penis. With Golota you just never know what is going to happen next and that is your downfall. He preys upon the mentally weak and with his mixture of physical/emotional/mental attacks. you can not help but fold underneath the pressure. 
As great as he is.. the question remain what could have been? If only he did a few things different......... Poland's finest and by far the most worthy of Polish warriors. Andrew 'G' Golota.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#90 Vernon Forrest*










My Biology Professor said that the 'Viper is a dangerous dangerous creature'. Vernon Forrest proves him right. One of the most dangerous and vicious of boxers.. Vernon was a time relic. A throw back to the better days of the past. A FIGHTER WHO fights anyone who dare rise up and challenge him. Jolting jab that leaves you parazled if it connects... a FLUSH right hand that snaps necks back... and a lethal upper cut which hurts bad. Vernon had it all. He was a giant for his Division and used his size to great effect. He was the school yard bully, the big dog, the black gorilla, the fearsome lion, the big Elephant that stomps. 
Dominating the likes of Shane Mosley, Adrian Stone, and Griffin.. he toyed with the Welterweight Division.. they were his meat and he was the big predator eating everyone. Using every single inch of the boxing ring to make him feel good... he never once let down... always pressuring, always attacking, always seeking.... 
When a tree falls in the middle of the woods... it might not make a sound.. but when an ENTIRE forest falls... the neighboring cities will feel the shake... The boxing world felt that shake as Mayorga twice defeated Vernon........... he never quite regained the brilliance he had prior to Mayorga.. but Forrest stands tall among this generation's greats... Gone but never forgotten..


----------



## Theron

One to watch said:


> Bizarre list.
> 
> How can we take it seriously when you don't include gary mason or sakio bika.


:lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#89 Kelly Pavlik*









Spiderman's Uncle once said 'With great power come great responsibility' .. in Kelly's case his power was something more than great.. It was gargantuan. And his responsibility? To lift the dying Middle Weight Division to it's once former glory. The good days of Hagler and Mugabi.. of Monzon and Futon.. And Kelly did just that. Ruthlessly carving into the MiddleWeight Division like it was a slab of ham.. he stomped his name on the faces of Harris,Neal,Holland,and Miranda. He stood tall and he shouted at Jermaine Taylor 'MY NAME IS KELLY and I'm coming for you' Taylor answered.

What followed was one of the most brutal two part battles in the history of the sport. Back and forth with high end drama.. knock downs and blood. Pavlik went toe to toe with Jermaine as Lennox Lewis did the HBO commentating. Kelly emerged victorious after a long and drawn out war.. knocking out Jermaine to claim the undisputed MW Crown.
WE HAVE A NEW MIDDLE WEIGHT CHAMPION AND HE'S FROM YOUNGSTOWN OHIO.. shirked Jim Lampley.......... Kelly continued to hone his skills and in the rematch once again went to war against Taylor.. this time winning a narrow UD. His time at the top was cut short by alcoholism... but when he was at the top.. there were very few that did it better.

We miss you Kelly... Hope you stop drinking and take care of your beautiful family.


----------



## fists of fury

God bless this man. This list should be stickied. :smile


----------



## Pimp C

More! More! More!


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#88 Denis Lebedov*









'Animila' means Animal in Russian.. and that's exactly what the great CruiserWeight Lebedov was. An animal in the ring. 
Growing up in a fighting family, Denis learned to fight early on in life.. Having to fend off grizzlies,thugs,hooligans,and his drunken abusive Father at the same time. Denis took care of his Mother and his cousins the only way he knew how. With his fists.
Animila Lebedov went on a tear through the CW Division, pounding into submission the likes of Okoth,vychkin,makhkamov,and Bubylych. His one sided beat down of Enzo Maccarienelli got him his dream shot: A chance at P4P Legend Roy Jones Jr.

My uncle said that the greatness of Lebedev is that he doesn't just put up pressure but build it up from the beginning.

I call it 'let the beat build' ....... Let the beat build is a song by Lil Wayne where he slowly but surely rambles on and on about some mundane shit all the while letting the beat build higher and higher until it explodes.. That's the way Lebedov fights and Roy was his huckleberry. Lebedov 'let the beat build'' starting from Round 1...more and more pressure applied round by round. Not just ineffective aggressiveness but intelligent aggressiveness.. The beat build on and on until it exploded right on Roy's chin.
KO 10.. and Lebedev got the ATG win that he so deserved... He went on to outbox another P4P Legend in James Toney to end what was a spectacular and sensational career. Toney who have looked slick and masterful for so much of his career, looked lost and dazed against Lebedev and later on admitted 'Denis was one of the best fighters he's ever fought'.
A great legend and a great man. Denis 'Animila' Lebedov.


----------



## Eoghan

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#88 Denis Lebedov*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Animila' means Animal in Russian.. and that's exactly what the great CruiserWeight Lebedov was. An animal in the ring.
> Growing up in a fighting family, Denis learned to fight early on in life.. Having to fend off grizzlies,thugs,hooligans,and his drunken abusive Father at the same time. Denis took care of his Mother and his cousins the only way he knew how. With his fists.
> Animila Lebedov went on a tear through the CW Division, pounding into submission the likes of Okoth,vychkin,makhkamov,and Bubylych. His one sided beat down of Enzo Maccarienelli got him his dream shot: A chance at P4P Legend Roy Jones Jr.
> 
> My uncle said that the greatness of Lebedev is that he doesn't just put up pressure but build it up from the beginning.
> 
> I got it 'let the beat build' ....... Let the beat build is a song by Lil Wayne when he slowly but surely rambles on and on about some mundane shit all the while letting the beat build higher and higher until it explodes.. That's the way Lebedov fights and Roy was his huckleberry. Lebedov 'let the beat build'' starting from Round 1...more and more pressure applied round by round. Not just ineffective aggressiveness but intelligent aggressiveness.. The beat build on and on until it exploded right on Roy's chin.
> KO 10.. and Lebedev got the ATG win that he so deserved... He went on to outbox another P4P Legend in James Toney to end what was a spectacular and sensational career. Toney who have looked slick and masterful for so much of his career, looked lost and dazed against Lebedev and later on admitted 'Denis was one of the best fighters he's ever fought'.
> A great legend and a great man. Denis 'Animila' Lebedov.


Was?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Eoghan said:


> Was?


Grammar is not my strong point.
Boxing is.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> Grammar is not my strong point.
> Boxing is.


Neither of them are.


----------



## Eoghan

FelixTrinidad said:


> Grammar is not my strong point.
> Boxing is.


Not so much the grammar, but you don't think he'll be back...?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Eoghan said:


> Not so much the grammar, but you don't think he'll be back...?


OHHHHHHHHH.. Nah he's done. 
That injury according to some sources was a lot more lethal than it appeared.(as if that was even possible)


----------



## One to watch

FelixTrinidad said:


> OHHHHHHHHH.. Nah he's done.
> That injury according to some sources was a lot more lethal than it appeared.(as if that was even possible)


Lethal....

You mean he died from his injuries.

Fuck,I'm learning so much in this thread.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#87 Ricky Hatton*










What is a hero? Is a hero braver than the ordinary man? Let me tell you what a hero is.
A hero is not braver than the ordinary man.. a hero is braver for 5 minutes longer. Ricky Hatton is a hero. He was a hero to the people, a hero to the sport, and a hero to my friend. I remember my friend often waking up and rushing into my room next door.. gushing about Hatton. He lived for Hatton fights, it motivated him and it inspired him. Win or lose.. my friend was behind Ricky Hatton all the way. THAT is the kind of greatness Ricky Hatton carries with him........ he had the people's love and what love is more important than the people?

Ricky never gave out turkeys in the ghettos.. he never saved cities from typhoons, he never lifted the Great Wall or ran a thousand miles to save a dying boy's life. He never did any of that. What he did do was inspire the commoners to be better than they were. He was a true people's champion. You drank tea? He drank tea. You eat chips? He eat chips. You drink beer? He drink beer. Everything you did he did as well. To get closer to the people, he even did cocaine and drugs.. not because he wanted to.. but because it made him look more mortal, more flawed.
I'm not going to talk about how Hatton dominated ATG Tzyu or how about Hatton stopped Castillo with a vicious body shot that broke ribs. I'm not going to talk about how Hatton was a utterly terrifying bull dog in the ring and feared by all. I'm not going to talk about how Hatton roared through the divisions and only lost to the very best. I'm not going to talk about Hatton's heart,dedication,and love of the sport.. Wait I just did. 
Ricky Hatton. A true people's champ.


----------



## Leftsmash

fists of fury said:


> God bless this man. This list should be stickied. :smile


I was just thinking that, @Bogotazo, this is worthy of a sticky. :lol:


----------



## Leftsmash

Eoghan said:


> Not so much the grammar, but you don't think he'll be back...?


PEDs or not, Guillermo absorbed his soul.


----------



## Eoghan

Leftsmash said:


> PEDs or not, Guillermo absorbed his soul.


He'll be back alright, just will he be 'back'?


----------



## Leftsmash

Eoghan said:


> He'll be back alright, just will he be 'back'?


One thing's for sure, he won't be the same.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#86 James Toney*










Oscar Wilde once said 'Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.' and James Toney live by that quote every day of his life. A fat jolly foul mouthed African American who slobbers and curses while he's throwing down 360 degrees of slick ownage..... that's James Toney. Tearing through the MW Division with his incredible defense,in fighting, chin, and combinations........... Nunn, Sosa, and Mccallum aint nothing but a name for James Toney as he rendered them helpless.. He engulfed them in complete darkness and took away the lights.. refusing to give them even one glimpse of Heaven.. he send them and kept them in Hell.. Toney ravaged his body with foods.. while fighting.. Pizzas, Chips, Burgers, butter and bread, beans,bacon,ham, it all went into Jame's seemingly bottomless pit of a stomach.. 
Eating his way up to LHW.. he continued to dominate. Steve Little and Terry Porter were just more victims for Toney as he crawled closer and closer to the ultimate price:

Cruiserweight Great: Visoy Jirov. The Painter of Violence.
The two met that fateful night and what followed was perhaps one of the most jaw dropping fights in recent memory. BACK AND FORTH.. it went. BLOOD AND SPIT. SWEAT AND TEARS. Everything you ever wanted was in that fight.... The two gave it their all and Toney finally emerged victorious with the biggest win of his great career.

James Toney is the very example of a fat man being proud of being a fat man. Why lose weight when you love eating? Why bother to look good when your fists do the talking? Why care about heart attacks when you live your life in the fast lane anyways? Someone once said.. it is better to be a Lion for a day than a mouse for a year..............
James Toney is not quite a Lion.. but he sure as hell make one damn good P4P Hippopotamus. And you know what? I'm going to let you in on a little secret...

I just might ............ place my money on that Hippo to emerge victorious over the Lions..........


----------



## Brnxhands

i rank him in the top 20. hes sitting ahead of floyd, manny and bernard


----------



## Theron

Toney didn't come near to rendering McCallum helpless, those were some of his hardest fights. 
If you wanna write for ESPN etc im just saying try to make it more accurate, I know when i'm reading 
peoples articles and i see lies or extreme exaggerations i don't usually come back a second time and usually
stop reading their stuff


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#85 Miguel Cotto
*









How does it feel to live in someone's shadow? We could ask that of Kobe as he lived in Jordan's.. we could ask that of Messi as he lived in Cristiano's...and I asked that of Miguel as he continue to live in Titos........... And guess what he said back to me. "It's not that you live, but that you live well'. 
I always wondered how great Miguel could have been if he never fought Margarito that night... The Miguel of 2007-2008 looked sensational and dazzling. How much better could he have become if he didn't walk right into the fearsome Margarito? 
Miguel's attitude and laid back smile often brings me joy. He seems like a real chill guy. I loved his fights against Mayweather and Pacquaio. It showed his courage and his determination.

I'm thinking of making a poem for Miguel labelled the 'Purto Rican Assassin' ............ maybe I will write that poem after I finish this project.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#84 
Sumbu Kalambay*










I have rarely seen someone move so effortlessly in the ring.. Wonderful fighter with a wonderful set of skills which he brought to friutation at every turn. Lightning jab and great counter abilities. Sumbu was great indeed. His two battles with Nunn saw not one but two legitimate ATGS battle each other in a classic war of wills,skills,and drills.

I wrote a short poem for Sumbu.

'Amazing warrior of the African Plains... you went to Italy and you brought the pain'
'Great jab and masterful skills.. despite all that still had trouble with the billls.
Never got the glory, rarely got the pay.. that's the story of Sumbu Kalambay.


----------



## Bogotazo

Theron said:


> Toney didn't come near to rendering McCallum helpless, those were some of his hardest fights.
> If you wanna write for ESPN etc im just saying try to make it more accurate, I know when i'm reading
> peoples articles and i see lies or extreme exaggerations i don't usually come back a second time and usually
> stop reading their stuff


atsch

Watch the fucking fights FT.

Oh why do I bother.


----------



## Hands of Iron

He's just doing this all for fun. Some of the pictures he's chosen are also priceless. :rofl


Bet on Lennox Lewis having beat at least a Dozen of his Top 100.


----------



## Leftsmash

Hands of Iron said:


> He's just doing this all for fun. Some of the pictures he's chosen are also priceless. :rofl
> 
> Bet on Lennox Lewis having beat at least a Dozen of his Top 100.


Yeah :lol: It's funny people still haven't got it. Those pictures were class though, Golota, Hatton, pretty much all are awesome photos :rofl


----------



## Vic

Where is Edison Miranda ??


----------



## Hands of Iron

Leftsmash said:


> Yeah :lol: It's funny people still haven't got it. Those pictures were class though, Golota, Hatton, pretty much all are awesome photos :rofl


The Golota pic :rofl :rofl

I laughed for around 20 minutes yesterday over that


----------



## Hands of Iron

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#94
> 
> Gary Mason
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most lethal punchers of all times.. Gary Mason holds a Knock out % of 34 KO/37 Wins. He have a shocking career of 37-1 and only had his '0' taken by ATG Lennox Lewis. Mason's punching tactics is unique in that he rarely needs to set anything up... vicious and brutal with either hand coming from all angles.. he was the very definition of an 'awkward killer'.
> Anything he touches, he folds.(With the exception of Lewis).. the destroyer of destroyers... Mason holds big wins over Tillis,Ratiff, and USA Olympic Hero Tyrell Biggs.. A quiet gentleman outside the ring, Gary's hobbies include cooking meat and chopping meat. He have butcher shops and restaurants that sells meats.
> A family man, a meat loving man, and a good man. That's what Mason was outside the ring.. but inside the ring he became a animal.. a stone cold killer with an attitude. Nothing was given to him for free.. everything he ever had he earned it with those giant sized mammoth fists of his... Mason is the very definition of a warrior role model. Brutal inside the circle, gentle outside. We miss you Gary. R I P.





FelixTrinidad said:


> *#91 Andrew Golota*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone once told me that God created Germans so the Poles would not conquer Europe... I said if Poland had just 1000 Golotas.. World War Two would have ended in 1941.......... 6'4 and 240 pounds.. Golota was the very definition of a super heavyweight with skills. Hands like a welter and moving with the grace of a light weight.. Golota skates around the ring.. doing figure 8's of beautifully interwoven boxing poetry.
> 
> Dominating the likes of Marion Wilson and Dwyane Hall.. Golota roared his way to the top of the Heavyweight Contender list.. He twice defeated ATG Riddick Bowe and was the first Pole to reach the very top of the World.. He had it all. Palaces, tanks,cars,a beautiful wife, the worship of a Nation, and skills to make others die for. His run was ended by British God Lennox Lewis and he was left forever a shell of his once great self. History do not forget what he HAS done prior to Lewis though and history never will.
> My Uncle once told me that the true uniqueness of Golota was his creativity. Instead of throwing out a lone jab.. he throws out two. Instead of punching with a straight right and following it up with a left hook.. he punches with a straight right and hit you in the Penis. With Golota you just never know what is going to happen next and that is your downfall. He preys upon the mentally weak and with his mixture of physical/emotional/mental attacks. you can not help but fold underneath the pressure.
> As great as he is.. the question remain what could have been? If only he did a few things different......... Poland's finest and by far the most worthy of Polish warriors. Andrew 'G' Golota.


:lol:


----------



## the cobra

FelixTrinidad said:


> #100 Glen Johnson
> 
> He suffered his first loss to Bernard Hopkins in a brutal back and forth battle





> *#97 Roberto Duran*
> 
> *#96 Roy Jones Jr*
> *
> #94 Gary Mason*





> When you think International Rap Superstar.. you think Roy Jones Jr.





> They said you can't spell M E X I C O without M.. I say you can't spell M E X I C O .. without 'O'.......... Fernand*O.*





>





>





> Let the beat build is a song by Lil Wayne where he slowly but surely rambles on and on about some mundane shit





> Ricky never gave out turkeys in the ghettos.. he never saved cities from typhoons, he never lifted the Great Wall or ran a thousand miles to save a dying boy's life. He never did any of that.





> You drank tea? He drank tea. You eat chips? He eat chips. You drink beer? He drink beer. Everything you did he did as well. To get closer to the people, he even did cocaine





> pizzas, Chips, Burgers, butter and bread, beans,bacon,ham, it all went into Jame's seemingly bottomless pit of a stomach..





> James Toney is the very example of a fat man being proud of being a fat man.





> I wrote a short poem for Sumbu.
> 
> 'Amazing warrior of the African Plains... you went to Italy and you brought the pain'
> 'Great jab and masterful skills.. despite all that still had trouble with the billls.
> Never got the glory, rarely got the pay.. that's the story of Sumbu Kalambay.





> Grammar is not my strong point.
> Boxing is.


:rofl:rofl:rofl

So much gold in this thread.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#83 Frank Bruno*










' Know what I mean Arry'... 'know what I mean'? Those simple magical words are forever
imprinted into the minds of the 90's generation of British fight fans. If Ricky Hatton was the favorite son of Manchester. Frank Bruno was the 1st born of England. Beloved and adored by the British Public in a way that Princess Diana can only dream of.. Big Frank transcended boxing in the UK. Not with his skills(although they were considerable indeed) but with his smile, his personality, and his big big big heart.

I'm not going to talk about his fights or his career because for once I am in complete awe of a boxer not for his boxing but for his larger than life presence. Frank was the very definition of 'People's Champion. It wasn't the feeling that 'he was one of us' which Ricky Hatton gave off, it wasn't the 'he represents us' feeling which Muhammad Ali gave off.. no it went deeper than that.. There was something about Big Frank which made the British people love him. Loved him more than they loved any fighter hence or since.... loved him in a way that feels hearts to bursting. 
When Bruno finally conquered Mccall for that world title.........he united the entire Nation. It felt like England just got launched into space via a massive sized rocket and the entire Country was just floating around and around the Milky Way........looking down upon the rest of the World.....

Lennox Lewis was the fists of British Boxing, Joe Calzaghe was the stomach,Carl Froch was the kneecap,Ricky Hatton was the Heart,Nigel Benn was the teeth, Chris Eubank was the thighs, but Frank Bruno?

Big Frank Bruno?

He was the soul.


----------



## Leftsmash

That has to be the most campiest photo of Bruno I've ever seen.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#82 Julio Cesar Chavez Senior*









My father once told me that he wanted me to think like Einstein, act like Mother Theresa and fight like Julio Cesar Chavez Senior. One of the greatest pressure fighters of all times.. Chavez awed and inspired with his relentless approach.. his RUTHLESS AGGRESSION(shout out to Cena) and his bone crushing body blows.
One of the great Mexicans of all times.. he was the real life Puss in Boots. Antonio Banderas with an attitude, Machete with a better right hand.... he ripped off a record of 89-0 to start his career.

He debuted against Andres Felix... and knocked him out.
But so full of anger was he that he fought Andres Felix A 2ND TIME within the span of 8 fights.. and knocked him out even FASTER.
Destroyed Ramon Flores.... with his 3rd fight.. yet SO FULL of anger was he that Chavez KNOCKED OUT Ramon's brother ROBERTO FLORES 6 months later... You might not be familiar with names like Santos and Gustavo, names like Carlos and Abarca, names like Fagasco and Mendoza.. Who are they? They were all two sport athletes (soccer and boxing) who managed to get knocked out by the great Julio.
Juilo also knocked out Meldrick Taylor.......

Great man that fought for a very beautiful Country. Viva Mexico. Viva Julio.


----------



## JMP

If I made a list of the 100 greatest threads of all-time, this would be a contender for GOAT status. Some brilliant stuff, Felix. Pure gold.


----------



## Hands of Iron

JMP said:


> If I made a list of the 100 greatest threads of all-time, this would be a contender for GOAT status. Some brilliant stuff, Felix. Pure gold.


You've seen the Roy Jones vs Uncle thread, right?


----------



## JMP

Hands of Iron said:


> You've seen the Roy Jones vs Uncle thread, right?


No, I haven't. I'm eager to now, though :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron

JMP said:


> No, I haven't. I'm eager to now, though :lol:


:rofl

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=411116



FelixTrinidad said:


> *Do any of you feel bad for the low level opponents Roy Jones Jr toyed with? My Uncle
> 
> First off, I want to say Roy Jones Jr
> 
> is one of the most naturally athletic fighters ever. But it really got under my skin when he embarrass and mock the opponents that were really just part time boxers.
> 
> Mocking James Toney is one thing, but mocking my uncle's friend is another.
> 
> My uncle's friend was a part time Mall Cop that was raising 5 kids to put through college. He boxed for fun at the local gym but was approached by Roy's people as one of his 'HBO' Opponents. He was really excited, but he never had no boxing training like Roy did.
> 
> He was a huge fan of Roy's and was so excited to not only meet but fight his idol.
> 
> Every morning he will wake up at 4 am and jog and train and skip rope. 8 AM Work at the mall, come home at 6 Pm. Train and Jog until 9 PM. Spend time with his five kids.
> 
> They all loved him and he was the nicest guy. He was always strapped for cash but never once failed to help my uncle out when my uncle needed him.
> 
> his entire family was at the arena cheering him on, and Roy just embarrassed him. It wasn't like Carl Froch beating up Bute.
> 
> Roy was just dancing and laughing and dingo punching him and never letting him do anything. It wasn't even fair because he was just a part time mall cop.
> 
> After the fight, Roy came over and laughed in his face, and said
> 
> 'Thanks for the match brah'
> 
> My Uncle's friend cried himself to sleep for the entire year. It was devastating because he found out his idol was a fucking jack ass
> 
> I wanna see Roy Jones Jr do that shit to Rakim Oaks..*


----------



## JMP

:rofl


----------



## Zopilote

Hands of Iron said:


> :rofl
> 
> http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=411116


:rofl:rofl:rofl

Thats gold!


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#81 : The Journeyman.*

I'm not putting one fighter for my #81 spot. I'm putting one entity. The Journeyman.

This is a poem I dedicate to every single journeymen who ever fought, who is fighting, and who will fight in the future.

The Journeyman.

The Journeyman travels alone in the cold. Shivering and scared alone in this world.
The Journeyman sighs as he endures another defeat... but at least tonight he'll not sleep on the street. 
The Journeyman goes from town to town.. conditions worsening but he still struggles on.

The Journeyman gave this wonderboy a test..but he still came out 2nd despite his very best. 
The Journeyman fades as he watches the new champ surrounded by adoring fans....'I'll do it all over again and again........... for without me.. where would he have began?


----------



## Hands of Iron

JMP said:


> :rofl





Zopilote said:


> :rofl:rofl:rofl
> 
> Thats gold!


 :lol: :rofl



FelixTrinidad said:


> My uncle was in S AFRICA for a nature documentary and his friend who is a boxing trainer there and scout for the Olympics pretty much confirmed Tiger Muhammad is the real deal.
> 
> He's only 13 and already 6'3, he is expected to hit around 6'8-6'9 and content for the Heavyweight championship of the world. He is already a huge favorite for Rios 2016, assuming he don't turn pro than. I know you can't turn pro at 16 but numerous scouts already said he can beat a top 50 HW NOW.
> 
> Beat Writer Timor Inevereiser (Goggle Translator):
> 
> *In today's boxing world of politics, dying interest from America, and big fights not being made a diamond in the rough have been found. His name is Rezereka Deres Muhammad or 'Tiger Muhammad' for short. A 13 year old wonderkid who already tower over his peers at an impressive 6'3, he packs 200 pounds of muscles and if he continues to grow at his projected pace, he will be a big unit indeed. That is not what makes him special though, it is his blazing pace, his supreme power and his uncanny reflexes. Everything he does in the ring speaks of magic, he is like a Young Lionel Messi, a young Kobe Bryant, a young dare we say it? Muhammad Ali. His foot work and his raw abilities shocks and entertain at the same time. What a gift Tiger is to us and to the boxing world. We will follow his progression with relish."*
> 
> I called his trainer/family member:
> 
> Well first things first. Can I have some sparring/footage of this wonder kid?
> 
> *Yes of course. It will be made aviable very soon.*
> 
> How much 'power' do you say he have right now at age 13?
> 
> *I have been in contact and worked the camps of Tyrell Biggs, Lennox Lewis, K2 Brothers, Oliver Mccall, David Tua, Mike Tyson, and Michael Moorer. I can say that he at age 13 hits just as hard as any one of them in terms of single volume output.*
> 
> Wow that is amazing.
> 
> *Ya, obviously he got major weakness now in terms of combination but we are working on it he's only 13.*
> 
> Is it legal to fight at such a young age?
> 
> *No. Not professionally. But we are looking in Europe maybe we can debut as a 17 year old or hopefully 16. We don't wanna enter Rios 2016, we really don't. He will kill every Olympian at 2016 so we don't want to hurt anyone. We just want to turn pro as soon as possible. We don't want to hurt anymore.*
> 
> Wow. How do you think he'll do against Anthony Joshua or Erislandy Savon those Olympians?
> 
> *I don't want to brag but he will kill Savon. And hurt Joshua really badly. He's already much better than they are.*
> 
> What is the 'ceiling' for this kid? In your opinion? Ceiling?
> 
> *Twice as good as the best version of Muhammad Ali. That is his ceiling. A future 6'7-6'8 250 pound super heavy who moves like a middleweight.*
> 
> Eli Deteres-former trainer: *"Tiger is the fastest fighter I ever seen, I can't believe he's only 13, his handspeed is shockingly Roy Jones Jr like and he have the power of a top 15 HW even right now'*
> 
> Scotty Brokes-former trainer
> 
> *"It's a good thing Wladmir will be retired (hopefully) when Muhammad turn pro, he's got it all and I am going to go on record saying this "If you put him in a ring against a top 50 HW TOMMOROW, he will win by ko'*
> 
> This guy is the future people.





mannyman said:


> What a fucking name. Its basically a combination of two of the best sportsmen of ALL time. He's got a lot to live up to, good luck!





Someone88 said:


> TS do you have any articles on this prospect?





duffgun100 said:


> I would like to see a video of him. It would be great to have a young talented kid coming to the heavyweight division


----------



## JMP

That's incredible :rofl I'm literally laughing my ass off reading about Tiger Muhammad. Wonder if he'll ever crack this list in the future? I have to assume his floor is above everybody else's ceiling.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

* #80 Samson Dutch Boy Gym*


























I am rarely a fan of small fighters but when a small fighter achieve something that turns him into a giant.. I can not help but take notice.
Samson Dutch Boy Gym is the reason China did not take over Thailand yet........In only his 4th professional fight back in 1994.. Dutch Boy became champion and he went on to defend that championship status for a shocking 38 times...
His 38 consecutive defenses is one of the greatest stats in boxing history and shows his dedication to the art of pugilism. Dutch Boy had a granite chin, extremely fast hands, an ATG lightning jab and of course his trade mark upper cut... Leaving the game with an record of 43-0 and with the highest KO Percentage of any undefeated champion...Dutch Boy firmly establishes himself as one of the 90's greats.

He is making an ill advised come back against up coming Yemeni super star Ali Raymi... and I fear that Dutch Boy would suffer his first knock out. 
There have been complains regarding a lack of 'passing of the torch' moments in boxing.. One is coming up and it can't be missed.

Raymi might indeed take the torch from Dutch Boy.. but I must advise Raymi to cherish that torch.. for when it was lit.. it brightened the entire sky.


----------



## fists of fury

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#81 : The Journeyman.*
> 
> I'm not putting one fighter for my #81 spot. I'm putting one entity. The Journeyman.
> 
> This is a poem I dedicate to every single journeymen who ever fought, who is fighting, and who will fight in the future.
> 
> The Journeyman.
> 
> The Journeyman travels alone in the cold. Shivering and scared alone in this world.
> The Journeyman sighs as he endures another defeat... but at least tonight he'll not sleep on the street.
> The Journeyman goes from town to town.. conditions worsening but he still struggles on.
> 
> The Journeyman gave this wonderboy a test..but he still came out 2nd despite his very best.
> The Journeyman fades as he watches the new champ surrounded by adoring fans....'I'll do it all over again and again........... for without me.. where would he have began?


:happy:happy 
Brought a tear to my eye, Felix. Best list ever.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Hey fuck you son. Don't put porn in my top 100 ATG thread you piece of fucking shit.

Fuck you and your whores.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#79 Chris John*










I cried when I heard Chris John lost.. broke down and sobbed like a baby.. Not because I'm a fan of Chris John's.. but because I'm a fan of dedication and hard work.
What does consistency mean to you? What it means to me is the number 48. That's the number of fighters Chris John defeated throughout his magnificent career. A counter punching genius and a true ring master, Chris John out skilled such great technicians like Hiroyuki Enoki,Oscar León, and of course Juan Manuel Marquez. The ultra skilled Mexican was caught again and again during their brutal battle.. unable to get off first, Marquez covered into a turtle shell formation and John managed to out think the great thinker. Always one step ahead of Marquez, always leading, never following.. it was a closely contested battle but only with one clear winner. 
Weather you are a puncher or a boxer.. John had the right formula to figure you out.. rarely have we seen such ingenuity and such ring guile combined into one package. 
You lost your '0' Chris....... you finally lost that zero.. But you know what? You'll never lose our respect.


----------



## the cobra

FelixTrinidad said:


> * #80 Samson Dutch Boy Gym*


----------



## Eoghan

FelixTrinidad said:


> * #80 Samson Dutch Boy Gym*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am rarely a fan of small fighters but when a small fighter achieve something that turns him into a giant.. I can not help but take notice.
> Samson Dutch Boy Gym is the reason China did not take over Thailand yet........In only his 4th professional fight back in 1994.. Dutch Boy became champion and he went on to defend that championship status for a shocking 38 times...
> His 38 consecutive defenses is one of the greatest stats in boxing history and shows his dedication to the art of pugilism. Dutch Boy had a granite chin, extremely fast hands, an ATG lightning jab and of course his trade mark upper cut... Leaving the game with an record of 43-0 and with the highest KO Percentage of any undefeated champion...Dutch Boy firmly establishes himself as one of the 90's greats.
> 
> He is making an ill advised come back against up coming Yemeni super star Ali Raymi... and I fear that Dutch Boy would suffer his first knock out.
> There have been complains regarding a lack of 'passing of the torch' moments in boxing.. One is coming up and it can't be missed.
> 
> Raymi might indeed take the torch from Dutch Boy.. but I must advise Raymi to cherish that torch.. for when it was lit.. it brightened the entire sky.


How is he even worth of a shot at Raymi when he is only 80th P4P ATG? Joke fight


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#78 Sergio Martinez*


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content










Roy Jones Jr with a better chin.. Sergio Martinez establishes himself on this list as one of the MiddleWeight greats.
Brutal power combined with catlike reflexes and agility, there has rarely been a fighter that was as complete as Maravilla.
Ripping his way through the Junior Middle Weight Ranks.. Martinez was feared by all and was forced to move up into the legendary 160 Division for bigger fights..... There he delivered one of the most bone chilling knockouts in the history of Boxing.. as he laid out fellow p4per Paul Williams... that was the beginning of a fabulous run through the 160 elites.
Martinez bloodied and battered King Kelly Pavlik who twice beaten Jermain Taylor who twice beaten Bernard Hopkins........., Martinez ran off a string of fantastic victories against Dyeunk,Barker,and Macklin.....stopping all three to set up a massive show down against giant CruiserWeight Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.
The Mexican CruiserWeight was thoroughly out boxed and embarrassed throughout 11 rounds prior to scoring a knock down which Sergio recovered from to retain his MiddleWeight Crown.
Maravilla Martinez to date remains one of boxing's great role models.. He is against bullying.... while Adrien Broner is eating shit out of a toilet and putting it on twitter.. Sergio is busy saving children from being bullied and abused.

There have been talks of GayGayGay(oneshot shoutout) challenging the great Martinez(who is well past his prime).
I say put your fucking money where your mouth is.. you stupid karazhatahhan ****** bitch.
Fuck you and your fans.


----------



## Zopilote

:rofl


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#77 Floyd Mayweather Jr*










This is a poem that I wrote for Floyd back in August:

"Heart and Desire, the Mayweather Way"

The warrior Mayweather going to war against Castillo with no shoulder. Floyd is the shining sun... Brilliant light . it burns my eyes so much greatness. I hurt but love heals all pain. Mayweather undefeated he is the rainmaker. I bow to his light and his skills. I want to be a baby seal living in his pocket. He will feed me bits of cheese ..
Floyd Mayweather Jr.. the great warrior. he is like the Dark Gaul. Undefeated like in that Show Spartacus. Or maybe he's Gannicus.. but with more skills. he'll never be nailed to a cross because he's too slick.
Floyd Mayweather Jr.. he will beat up Canelo. I can't wait till people say Canelo is weight drained. Floyd is 151 pounds right now.


----------



## the cobra

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#77 Floyd Mayweather Jr*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to be a baby seal living in his pocket. He will feed me bits of cheese ..


No doubt.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#76 Manny Pacquaio*









The most sensational fighter of the last Decade. Manny Pacquaio flew through the weight divisions like super man.

I wrote a poem for Manny:

"Most people use their right hand.. Manny use his left. I could never use my left hand because that feels unnatural'.
Fighter of the Decade.. Destruction. Carnage. Pain. and Explosion. Jim Lampley loves Pacquaio more than his family.
Lampley left his daughter to be raped during the Bowe-Golota riot and Foreman had to save her. Lampley is a coward. Why does he like Gatti?
Gatti blocked punches with his face. Orlando Cruz block dicks with his. 
Pacquaio you are amazing. I miss that poster GTSK.. he was GOAT Pac fan. He made great threads about dying for Pac-Man.
Freddy Roach you talk a lot of shit. I'll leave you shaking in your boots. ***.
Pacquaio got a great resume. Fighter of the Decade. You are a human tornado.


----------



## Divi253

Ah man this thread is gold. That Pacquiao one literally had me in tears :rofl You have a great way with words.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#75 Kid Gavilán*









First off what is the Cuban Hawk? 
Members of the genus Buteogallus are small to quite large hawks. Their wings are short to medium in length; broad and rounded; the tail is of medium length. They have coarse, heavy, rather long legs. The lores and adjacent areas are naked to varying degrees. Some feathers on the crown and nape are pointed, forming a slight crest. Adults are blackish with a white banded tail and often with some rufous in wing and (in one species) body plumage. Immature plumage is very different from adult.
The genus is present from south-western United States to Argentina, including the islands of Cuba and St Vincent. There are five species.

Physical characteristics
Small, stocky-bodied grebe with a short, thin bill and
Yellow eyes. Dark plumage, darker on the crown and back
White under tail coverts. Feet set far back on body and trail awkwardly behind body in flight.

Habitats include fresh and brackish water, from small ponds to lakes, ditches, marshes and slower moving parts of rivers.
Reproduction
Multi-brooded, will nest in any season if conditions are suitable. Lays 3 to 6 blue-white eggs that become nest staiined. Builds a foating nest of vegetation anchored to reeds. Incubation about 21 days.
Feeding habits
Eats aquatic insects, small fish, tadpoles, snails, and above water insects. Like all grebes, also eat their own feathers, which may protect the gastrointestinal track from sharp fish bones.

Conservation
This species has been classified as Near Threatened because although it can be locally common, it has a specialised habitat and consequently a moderately small range which is likely to be contracting owing to drainage and other forms of wetland destruction. However, given the dispersal capabilities of large raptors, the habitat and population is unlikely to be severely fragmented or restricted to few locations.
Very local, mainly in subtropical parts of the Americas. It may favour small temporary waters which lack predatory fish. It also occurs in swamps, shallow lakes, or oxbows, often almost overgrown with floating vegetation.
The least grebe is rare in freshwater swamps in Suriname near the coast. Birds have also been found in ponds or rivers farther in to the interior.

That's how Kid Gavilan got his name.. Now you ask.. why didn't you write anything about the actual Boxer Felix? What about Kid Gavilan?

Let me tell you why I didn't write anything about Kid Gavilan.
The reason is I want all of you people to go look up Kid Gavilan and appreciate just what a great fighter he was.
I KNOW he's great.. spend some time so you can know too.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#74 Chris Byrd
*










'Little Big Man'

"Light Heavy Weight in a Heavyweight's jungle.....one mistake and he shall surely stumble..
'Staring way up into the Ukrainian Giants eyes... .. twice the heart but only half the size'
'Again and again he press with rapid fire.....his momentum build as the Giant began to tire.
'little big man breaks his will....... critics am I too small still?
Have I impress you who calls me weak? Have I impress you who said my future was bleak?
You are right.. I never did have the power... but with enough desire ... I'll break down any tower.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#73 Michael Nunn*









"Michael and the Lady'

Southpaw who never got his dues... mistreated at the Olympic Trails so
Tate won't have to lose. 
Eager to prove he was no phony... career derailed by one James Toney.
Moved up to one sixty eight... Liles proved that cruel was the Goddess Fate.
Sweat and tears at one seventy five. Doing it through hard work luck was never on his side.
Went to Germany for one last chance... Lady Destiny laughed and refused his dance.
For most people you are forgotten.. the disfavored Son.. but to me ..
Michael.. you are second to Nunn.


----------



## Danny

The journeyman poem was actually beautiful, as was the Chris Byrd one.

This is my favourite boxing related thread of all time.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#72 Julian Jackson*










Question. Why did Felix post a picture of a giant breasted average looking girl in place of Julian Jackson?

Answer: Because that is what Julian Jackson is.. A giant breasted average looking girl. His power is his giant breasts. 
For you see, a average looking girl with giant sized breasts can still at times steal the boyfriend of a gorgeous looking girl with average breasts.
Those breasts are the equalizer.

Lennox Lewis is a big titty(power) girl, with a beautiful face and a great personality(boxing skills)

Julian Jackson is a big titty girl with an average face and average personality(boxing skills) but so great is his power that he can equalize ALL of that.

For Jackson's power is not just great it's ATG Elite..

He hits you and you can collapse into a heap of shit. He hits you and it feels like your world just exploded. That is his equalizer. At any time, any moment, he can end you like he ended Graham. Bang and you are out. Bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang..

Those giant tits swaying back and forth is the great equalizer for that average looking/average personality girl. She can at times still 'punch above her weight' so to speak and snag a guy much better looking than her simply because those massive breasts is too tempting to say no to.. Now in the long term she will inevitably lose to the true beautys of this world.. but every once in a while... those tits are simply too much to refuse.


----------



## Danny

:lol: Dat analogy.


----------



## Hands of Iron

"Ohhh Noooooo!" ?? :rofl


----------



## Hands of Iron




----------



## PityTheFool

This is exactly why I was very vocal about Felix being freed from the Gulag.


Absolute gold.I salute you my friend.:good:


----------



## the cobra

Hands of Iron said:


>


Damn, man. It's like he hits you and you can collapse into a heap of shit.

Amazing titties.


----------



## Hands of Iron

the cobra said:


> Damn, man. It's like he hits you and you can collapse into a heap of shit.
> 
> Amazing titties.


Pretty fast hands too. Imagine he'd been blessed with the greatest chin in boxing history. I mean like, able to take peak Tyson combinations to the jaw without blinking while at 154 lbs.


----------



## the cobra

Hands of Iron said:


> Pretty fast hands too. Imagine he'd been blessed with the greatest chin in boxing history. I mean like, able to take peak Tyson combinations to the jaw without blinking while at 154 lbs.


He'd have ruled the world.

The Drayton KO is so badass.


----------



## Hands of Iron

the cobra said:


> He'd have ruled the world.
> 
> The Drayton KO is so badass.


McCallum still would've found a way.

Has Felix rate McCallum yet? Felix, I hope you take into consideration McCallum took this man's bombs and stopped him while he was 29-0 with 27 KOs.

He also beat prime Toney.


----------



## dyna

I sometimes imagine a being with the body of Tua, the skillset of McCallum and the determination of Marciano.
It's scary, an iron chinned Jackson is also scary but not like the Tuaminator type of scary.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#71 Antonio Margarito*










What is the difference between courage and bravery?
Bravery is when you do something dangerous and you are not even scared.
Courage is when you are smart enough to be scared but do it anyways.

Margarito was never smart. He never had 'courage' because he never once felt fear.
Antonio Margarito is bravery personified. He'll walk through walls just to land 
one punch, he'll use his own face as a shield and slowly but surely grind you down.
Margarito was the true meaning of 'fighting without fear' and he stamped out his legacy
in boxing lore. Taking the zeros of both Sergio Martinez and Miguel Cotto in devasting fashion.. Margarito broke down their wills and their desire.. left them empty husks and dead weight. Martinez went on to become a dominant MiddleWeight champion and Cotto went on to become a superstar.......... both suffered their first and biggest defeats at the hands of Margarito.

What really made Tony a great fighter as oppose to just a 'very good one' was his unique method of conserving energy. He conserved energy by not having a defense.Most fighters would have to work on offensive boxing and defensive tactics. hence working twice as much as Margarito. For Antonio.. his face was his defense.. he simply out lasted Cotto and Martinez because while they had to think about avoiding punishment as well as dishing it out.. Margarito simply dished out punishment.

Tragedy struck shortly after the Cotto fight when Tony was accused of using certain kinds of wraps.. Heart broken and demoralized by this cruel World.. Toney gave up on the sport and was never the same after.

Antonio was not the greatest... but yet..if you sit in a dark room...with a big flat screen tv in front of you, a cold beer by your side and volume turned way up.. and you put in that Cotto-Margarito fight.....with Max Kellerman commentary.. for that one night? He was indeed the greatest of them all.


----------



## the cobra

Hands of Iron said:


> McCallum still would've found a way.
> 
> Has Felix rate McCallum yet? Felix, I hope you take into consideration McCallum took this man's bombs and stopped him while he was 29-0 with 27 KOs.
> 
> He also beat prime Toney.


*#16. Mike McCallum
*









Mike McCallum was called the bodysnatcher because he used his clubbing power and ripping hooks to snatch away his opponents bodies. He was like an alien who came in and stole and took over your body with violence. ATG Julian Jackson? Snatched. ATG Sumbu Kalambay? Snatched. Herol Graham? Snatched. Donald Curry? Snatched. Michael Watson? Snatched. Even great Fat Man James Toney before he got fat got his fat body snatched away by the bodysnatcher. This Jamaican hero spent most of his career being ducked and dodged by the best of him, so infamous and feared and was his legendary and feared bodysnatching abilities.

when you think international reggae superstar...you think Mike McCallum...and then he snatches your body away.


----------



## tommygun711

:lol: :rofl Worst list I've ever seen in my entire life.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

the cobra said:


> *#16. Mike McCallum
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike McCallum was called the bodysnatcher because he used his clubbing power and ripping hooks to snatch away his opponents bodies. He was like an alien who came in and stole and took over your body with violence. ATG Julian Jackson? Snatched. ATG Sumbu Kalambay? Snatched. Herol Graham? Snatched. Donald Curry? Snatched. Michael Watson? Snatched. Even great Fat Man James Toney before he got fat got his fat body snatched away by the bodysnatcher. This Jamaican hero spent most of his career being ducked and dodged by the best of him, so infamous and feared and was his legendary and feared bodysnatching abilities.
> 
> when you think international reggae superstar...you think Mike McCallum...and then he snatches your body away.


:lol: Fantastic fucking write up.

I highly disagree with your placement and rankings but great write up.
Mccallum as talented as he was.. is NOT A TOP 16 FIGHTER OF ALL TIMES.


----------



## the cobra

FelixTrinidad said:


> :lol: Fantastic fucking write up.
> 
> I highly disagree with your placement and rankings but great write up.
> Mccallum as talented as he was.. is NOT A TOP 16 FIGHTER OF ALL TIMES.


I was just copping your style, man. I thought, "how would Felix describe him?" and it came to me. You're an inspiration.

And I just put him at 16 to appease the Hands, ya know? He's a big fan and all.


----------



## Hands of Iron

the cobra said:


> I was just copping your style, man. I thought, "how would Felix describe him?" and it came to me. You're an inspiration.
> 
> And I just put him at 16 to appease the Hands, ya know? He's a big fan and all.


:lol:

Yeah I was quite pleased with that.


----------



## PityTheFool

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> Yeah I was quite pleased with that.


How funny is Felix here.Iron chinned and funny as fuck! Margarito in here is just comedic genius.
He can join our gang,what you think Bud?


----------



## Hands of Iron

PityTheFool said:


> How funny is Felix here.Iron chinned and funny as fuck! Margarito in here is just comedic genius.
> He can join our gang,what you think Bud?


Honestly thought he already had. Me and Turbo embraced him and his ways a long time ago. Spring 2012 like.


----------



## PityTheFool

Hands of Iron said:


> Honestly thought he already had. Me and Turbo embraced him and his ways a long time ago. Spring 2012 like.


I didn't know you had until here but over there I often said he was an iron chinned poster with my favourite attribute,the ability to make me laugh.

So he's in?
Will you tell him or will I?:lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron

PityTheFool said:


> I didn't know you had until here but over there I often said he was an iron chinned poster with my favourite attribute,the ability to make me laugh.
> 
> So he's in?
> Will you tell him or will I?:lol:


Yeah, we used to fuck around and talk nothing but Heavyweights with Felix for like several months. I think I lost him a bit when I stopped talking about Tyson and the sort and focused on the smaller guys.


----------



## PityTheFool

Hands of Iron said:


> Yeah, we used to fuck around and talk nothing but Heavyweights with Felix for like several months. I think I lost him a bit when I stopped talking about Tyson and the sort and focused on the smaller guys.


I'll have to run it by the big guy but I think we can open the books for Felix.
@FelixTrinidad ! You gettin this?


----------



## r1p00pk

this cant be real


----------



## FelixTrinidad

PityTheFool said:


> I'll have to run it by the big guy but I think we can open the books for Felix.
> 
> @FelixTrinidad ! You gettin this?


You guys are good posters.. Hand is very knowledgeable.. as is most of you.
Cobra I think is another poster who knows boxing. I enjoy reading most of you guys posts.

Obviously my list is going to be different from Mcgrains..Great minds don't always think alike.
Mcgrain is all about the flash.. I'm about the actual SUBSTANCE.

I respect the Hell out of McGrain's list and what he have done though.. but to be fair to myself.. Mcgrain had the help of hundreds of ESB'S best boxing minds.. Me? I had to do it by myself.

Mcgrain is just the leader of 10,000 waves as they form a Ocean of Boxing Knowledge.
Me? I'm the actual Ocean.


----------



## Pedderrs

If Gerry "slicker than Toney" Penalosa isn't in the top 10 then it's a bullshit list. It's looking good so far though.


----------



## Hands of Iron

PityTheFool said:


> I'll have to run it by the big guy but I think we can open the books for Felix.
> 
> @FelixTrinidad ! You gettin this?


You ever see his letter grades for Tyson opponents? :lol:



FelixTrinidad said:


> vs Trevor Berbick 1986: Grade: F Are you serious? giving him that high of a grade? I'm not trying to insult you but come on dude.
> 
> 1- He was high on cocaine that night. I'll link you sources. He was coming off back to back arrests on possession.
> 
> 2- THE GUY was fucking knocked the fuck out by Bernardo Mercado ST the cruiserweight Gordon and Snipes for Christs Sake.
> 
> WTF man he had 5 losses LEADING INTO THE TYSON FIGHT and you givehim a B+?? Seriously a B+? Thisguy was a borderline gatekeeper
> 
> vs Bonecrusher Smith 1987: Grade: D-Bonecrusher Smith was a fucking Gatekeeper too.
> 
> vs Larry Holmes1988: Grade: F
> 
> You can't say Larry got better afterwards hence trying to make Mike Tyson look good.
> 
> Do you know the story of larry vs tyson?
> 
> Holmes was paid millions by Don King to getout of retirement asap and fight Mike because they wanted Holmes name on Mike's list. He was suppose to retire immediatly afterwards but he got sucked back into boxing and did very well when he was fully motivated and trained. The version of Holmes that fought Mike had zero training and basically just stepped out of his house for a pay day.
> 
> vs Tony Tubbs 1988: I can not believe you gave this guy a fucking B+
> 
> C+ at best
> 
> vs Michael Spinks 1988: Grade: C+ this guy was a LHW for god's sake.
> 
> vs Frank Bruno 1989: Grade: B Ya Bruno is legit the version of Bruno isn't as good as the Bruno that fought Lewis though
> 
> vs Carl Williams 1989: Grade: D he was shot He was knocked out by hercules after Holmes
> 
> Tyson fought a bunch of god damn bums dude. This is why He is overrated.
> 
> Americans gave him all the props in the world for fighting bums because he can ko them in a great fashion
> 
> Im not denying his skills but it is what it is
> 
> The best fighter he ever fought was Holyfield. Holyfield was the only A fighter he ever fought that was still an A fighter when the match happened
> 
> the 2nd best was a semi shot Lewis in 2002
> 
> I gave that semi shot past prime Lewis of 2002 a B-grade


----------



## PityTheFool

Hands of Iron said:


> You ever see his letter grades for Tyson opponents? :lol:


Mmm.Are you saying to me that a probationary phase as an associate is the way to go here Brother?

You know nothing happens without your say so.


----------



## Hands of Iron

PityTheFool said:


> Mmm.Are you saying to me that a probationary phase as an associate is the way to go here Brother?
> 
> You know nothing happens without your say so.


Nah, I think he's been reformed. That was a long, long time ago,

Plus I'm not going to be around that much pretty soon, I don't think. Sort of bored of it all. :verysad


----------



## dyna

I really hope Johny Ruiz is in the list.


----------



## PityTheFool

hands of iron said:


> nah, i think he's been reformed. That was a long, long time ago,
> 
> plus i'm not going to be around that much pretty soon, i don't think. Sort of bored of it all. :verysad


DON'T LEAVE ME!!! :frochcry


----------



## Hands of Iron

PityTheFool said:


> DON'T LEAVE ME!!! :frochcry


That Undefeated Gaul episode rubbed me the wrong way, man. I'd be surprised if turbo ever came back... think the ban was actually lifted already, early.


----------



## PityTheFool

Hands of Iron said:


> That Undefeated Gaul episode rubbed me the wrong way, man. I'd be surprised if turbo ever came back... think the ban was actually lifted already, early.


Come on Brother!
Didn't you see my Johnie Cochrane style turning if the tables for turbo today.
Don't fucking make me start sounding all gay n shit but you know you're an integral part of my CHB life.
And the fact I'm saying it here and not in a PM should be considered.

And for anyone who thinks I'm
Being a poofter with Hands here,fuck y'all cos I'm marrying @Bogotazo so I can come to the NY meet.
So that puts the gay accusations to sleep...poirmenentlee.


----------



## PityTheFool

PityTheFool said:


> DON'T LEAVE ME!!! :frochcry


 @Hands of Iron ;

I'll kill myself you bastard! In front of my kids!

Don't you fuckin leave me!


----------



## Hands of Iron

PityTheFool said:


> @Hands of Iron ;
> 
> I'll kill myself you bastard! In front of my kids!
> 
> Don't you fuckin leave me!


:lol:

I always toy with the idea but never take more than a few days or week away.


----------



## PityTheFool

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> I always toy with the idea but never take more than a few days or week away.


You've got 2 mins to decide.
It's 3AM here and it's just me and my 4yo.
I'll go in and wake her up and cut my throat in front of her.
I mean what kind of man could live with putting a child through that?
I never thought you'd be one of em':verysad


----------



## Hands of Iron

PityTheFool said:


> You've got 2 mins to decide.
> It's 3AM here and it's just me and my 4yo.
> I'll go in and wake her up and cut my throat in front of her.
> I mean what kind of man could live with putting a child through that?
> I never thought you'd be one of em':verysad


I'll stick to 5K posts and then make decision :smoke


----------



## Bogotazo

PityTheFool said:


> Come on Brother!
> Didn't you see my Johnie Cochrane style turning if the tables for turbo today.
> Don't fucking make me start sounding all gay n shit but you know you're an integral part of my CHB life.
> And the fact I'm saying it here and not in a PM should be considered.
> 
> And for anyone who thinks I'm
> Being a poofter with Hands here,fuck y'all cos I'm marrying @Bogotazo so I can come to the NY meet.
> So that puts the gay accusations to sleep...poirmenentlee.


That's right baby #NYMarriageLicense #Mr .Pity-Tazo #7ChildrenMinimum #CheckHookWedding


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#70 Matthew Saad Muhammad*

I'm not gonna write a poem or write a short biography for MSM. I'm not even gonna talk about him. What I'm going to do is put a video of just one round.
One round. Watch this round. This round symbolizes Matt's entire career better than any words ever can.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#69 George*

No.. not George Foreman.... This 'George'.

He is the only NON-BOXER on the list. I wasn't going to do this because I felt like it will ruin the legitimacy of this thread, but I was so overcome with emotions that I just had to.
I'm only doing this once.. but by God I had to do it.

George the Terrier

A plucky foot-high Jack Russell terrier named George saved five New Zealand children from two marauding pitbulls, but was so severely mauled in the fight he had to be destroyed, according to his devastated owner.
George was playing with the group of children as they returned home from buying sweets at a neighborhood shop in the small North Island town of Manaia last Sunday when the two pitbulls appeared and lunged toward them

This dog wasn't even a foot high and was maybe a third the size of one of those pit bulls. George was a pet dog, never meant to fight, never meant to kill, never meant to be mean or vicious.. yet he leaped into the jaws of death so children can live.

I know this list is for boxers.. but I'm talking about the 100 Greatest FIGHTERS of all times and to me George was one hell of a fighter.


----------



## fists of fury

Damn, never knew about this courageous warrior. Prime Mayweather would want no part of this scrapper. R.I.P, champ.


----------



## JMP

Fuck, RIP George. 

Dogs hold a special place in my heart.


----------



## PowerBack

Could a prime George have beaten a prime Duran?


----------



## dyna

PowerBack said:


> Could a prime George have beaten a prime Duran?


It's certainly mention worthy


----------



## rossco

Someone posted your Floyd Mayweather poem in the lounge a few months ago. The baby seal bit had me in tears.


----------



## rossco

R.I.P. Dod


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#68 Tommy Morrison*










My friend once said in front of me 'Man that Tommy Morrison was such a Big White Hope' .. I calmly went to the back of the gym, got a baseball bat, came out and beat the living shit out of my friend. I spat on his face afterwards and left. 
Tommy Morrison was no 'White Hope' and I'll baseball fuck anyone who says he was.

Morrison fought against that degrading label of the 90's his entire career and earned his way into my top 100 with his heart and fists. One of the most lethal left hookers in the history of boxing(2nd only to the great Tua in my opinion) , Morrison refused TV Contracts, promotions,and media coverage as he earned his way to the top. He refused to go the Cooney route, he carved his own route...hook after hook, body after body. That was the Morrison way.
Destroying such big names like James Tillis and Pink Tomas.. Morrison worked his way up to a shot against one of the most legendary fighters of all times. Big George Foreman. In a thrilling 12 round contest between two of the biggest punchers of all times... Morrison emerged victorious after a dazzling boxing clinic which left the once 'Big' Big George looking quite small.

Tommy continued his winning ways.. etching ever closer to world title glory(with a minor road bump along the sides). Knocking out Tomashek,Toia,and Scott.. Morrison earned a well deserved win against Purrity but was somewhat robbed on the cards. Purrity would go on to knock out ATG Wladimir Klitschko a few years later. Tommy and Ruddock soon meet afterwards in a titanic monstrous battle of the massive punchers. Fists flew and blood spilled, the end result was once again a Tommy KO.

Morrison finally got his shot at glory against Lennox Lewis and for the first time in his life.. was thoroughly outboxed on route to a vicious 6 round beat down.
Tommy was never the same afterwards... but losing to Lennox by no means tarnish his great legacy.. As my Father always said 'Reach for the stars because if you fail you can at least say you touched the skies..
Tommy touched the skies..........and the World was better for it.


----------



## the cobra

Dogs are the shit. Rest in peace, noble George.



> Originally posted by *FelixTrinidad*
> My friend once said in front of me 'Man that Tommy Morrison was such a Big White Hope' .. I calmly went to the back of the gym, got a baseball bat, came out and beat the living shit out of my friend. I spat on his face afterwards and left.
> Tommy Morrison was no 'White Hope' and I'll baseball fuck anyone who says he was.


:rofl


----------



## Phantom

tommygun711 said:


> Neither of them are.


:deal


----------



## Leftsmash

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#69 George*
> 
> No.. not George Foreman.... This 'George'.
> 
> He is the only NON-BOXER on the list. I wasn't going to do this because I felt like it will ruin the legitimacy of this thread, but I was so overcome with emotions that I just had to.
> I'm only doing this once.. but by God I had to do it.
> 
> George the Terrier
> 
> A plucky foot-high Jack Russell terrier named George saved five New Zealand children from two marauding pitbulls, but was so severely mauled in the fight he had to be destroyed, according to his devastated owner.
> George was playing with the group of children as they returned home from buying sweets at a neighborhood shop in the small North Island town of Manaia last Sunday when the two pitbulls appeared and lunged toward them
> 
> This dog wasn't even a foot high and was maybe a third the size of one of those pit bulls. George was a pet dog, never meant to fight, never meant to kill, never meant to be mean or vicious.. yet he leaped into the jaws of death so children can live.
> 
> I know this list is for boxers.. but I'm talking about the 100 Greatest FIGHTERS of all times and to me George was one hell of a fighter.


RIP George.


----------



## turbotime

I'm dying here this can't possibly get any better I'm losing my shit at Pea's pic :rofl :rofl


----------



## Leftsmash

turbotime said:


> I'm dying here this can't possibly get any better I'm losing my shit at Pea's pic :rofl :rofl


Couldn't even get one of him in his prime instead we get the ancient one sitting next to Judah who looks like he's about to take a "selfie".


----------



## FelixTrinidad

turbotime said:


> I'm dying here this can't possibly get any better I'm losing my shit at Pea's pic :rofl :rofl


Glad you are back man.. Oscar definitely made my list.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#67 Willie Pep*










For the great Pep.. I wrote a Haiku.
A Haiku is a poem in the 5-7-5 format.

The Haiku of Willie Pep

Little Wisp WOW
featherweight thunder wow wow
amazing Willie


----------



## turbotime

FelixTrinidad said:


> Glad you are back man.. Oscar definitely made my list.


 Great thread my man and I know you can do better than an Oscar drag pic :-(


----------



## LittleRed

Why has no one mentioned this thread?!?


----------



## pipe wrenched

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#76 Manny Pacquaio*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The most sensational fighter of the last Decade. Manny Pacquaio flew through the weight divisions like super man.
> 
> I wrote a poem for Manny:
> 
> "Most people use their right hand.. Manny use his left. I could never use my left hand because that feels unnatural'.
> Fighter of the Decade.. Destruction. Carnage. Pain. and Explosion. Jim Lampley loves Pacquaio more than his family.
> Lampley left his daughter to be raped during the Bowe-Golota riot and Foreman had to save her. Lampley is a coward. Why does he like Gatti?
> Gatti blocked punches with his face. Orlando Cruz block dicks with his.
> Pacquaio you are amazing. I miss that poster GTSK.. he was GOAT Pac fan. He made great threads about dying for Pac-Man.
> Freddy Roach you talk a lot of shit. I'll leave you shaking in your boots. ***.
> Pacquaio got a great resume. Fighter of the Decade. You are a human tornado.


:lol: :rofl :lol:

Jackson's giant titties :lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#66 Henry Greb*










I am taking a massive risk here putting the 'Great Greb' this low.
My critics will naturally use this to attack my writings and my authencity.
They will use this to attack my supposed boxing knowledge and my accuracy.
They will say

'Felix have a great list.. but wait the one flaw to his list is that he got
GREB AT 66.

'What? Are you serious? GREB at 66? I thought his list was great but not 
anymore.. One mistake ruins the whole thing for me. No no. Felix is not legit.

Keep your panties up B.. let me explain myself first.
First of all.. I have NO evidence of any Greb fight outside of some
incredibly weird looking sparring footage on youtube. The only thing I know about 
Greb all came from 'eye witness' accounts.

They use words like 'Amazing' 'Destruction' 'Power' 'Speed' 'KNOCK OUT Brilliance'
'Devastion' .......But wait.. are we talking about Ali Raymi or Henry Greb?
These very words are used to describe Ali Raymi right now... the difference is that we have actual fight footage of Raymi and fight footage prove that Ali Raymi is a top 150 fighter of all times.... not top 100 and certainitly no where near #1 .... Yet if we only used these eye witness accounts of Raymi? 100 years from now.. he might have been considered GOAT.....

Every great writer needs to take a risk.. a plunge into the unknown. I'm taking my plunge by putting Greb at only #66 .. So string me up.. cut my dick off and nail me to a cross. You can hurt me.. You can mock me.. but you WILL not break me. I WILL not put Greb any higher... Come hell or high water.


----------



## turbotime

Agreed. Henry is definitely up there ATG wise.


----------



## pipe wrenched

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#66 Henry Greb*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am taking a massive risk here putting the 'Great Greb' this low.
> My critics will naturally use this to attack my writings and my authencity.
> They will use this to attack my supposed boxing knowledge and my accuracy.
> They will say
> 
> 'Felix have a great list.. but wait the one flaw to his list is that he got
> GREB AT 66.
> 
> 'What? Are you serious? GREB at 66? I thought his list was great but not
> anymore.. One mistake ruins the whole thing for me. No no. Felix is not legit.
> 
> Keep your panties up B.. let me explain myself first.
> First of all.. I have NO evidence of any Greb fight outside of some
> incredibly weird looking sparring footage on youtube. The only thing I know about
> Greb all came from 'eye witness' accounts.
> 
> They use words like 'Amazing' 'Destruction' 'Power' 'Speed' 'KNOCK OUT Brilliance'
> 'Devastion' .......But wait.. are we talking about Ali Raymi or Henry Greb?
> These very words are used to describe Ali Raymi right now... the difference is that we have actual fight footage of Raymi and fight footage prove that Ali Raymi is a top 150 fighter of all times.... not top 100 and certainitly no where near #1 .... Yet if we only used these eye witness accounts of Raymi? 100 years from now.. he might have been considered GOAT.....
> 
> Every great writer needs to take a risk.. a plunge into the unknown. I'm taking my plunge by putting Greb at only #66 .. So string me up.. cut my dick off and nail me to a cross. You can hurt me.. You can mock me.. but you WILL not break me. I WILL not put Greb any higher... Come hell or high water.


I def agree with the reasoning....

It's almost like it's boxing Politically Correct to always have these old dudes @ the top of these lists, going only on witness accounts from way back in the day....

Fuck it ... :conf


----------



## the cobra

He uses a fucking wisp from warcraft. :rofl

Felix, you're doing special things here, man.


----------



## turbotime

How about my man Oba Carr?






31:55 in

...basically why Oscar had to invent the check hook. What a fighter, had Trinidad down early too and beat Chavez conqueror Randall.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#65 'Irish' Andre Ward*










Andre Ward is the greatest SMW of our generation.
He have received a lot of criticism for fighing at home.
I disagree with the critics. Nothing wrong with defending your castle.
This poem is for you Andre. Keep doing your thang Big Dog.

'Oakland Love'

I love my home I'll never leave.
You want a match? Come and you shall receive.
Oakland Oakland I shall Defend.
I'll stay snuggled here till the bitter end.
Even if I was 10 Million in debt.
I'll not leave Oakland.. not one step.
Don't you mistake Carson City for an away fight.
It's only 7 hours... I got home that very night.
I love my City I love my bed. 
30,000 in Nottingham? Nah I'll do 6,000 instead.
Hey guys guess what I'm vacationing in Dubai!!!
Just kidding .. staying right here eating my home grown pie.

I am Andre Ward.. and I love my province.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

turbotime said:


> How about my man Oba Carr?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 31:55 in
> 
> ...basically why Oscar had to invent the check hook. What a fighter, had Trinidad down early too and beat Chavez conqueror Randall.


Holy shit that was great. Oba Carr's mini rap song is >than Austin Trout's entire career.


----------



## turbotime

FelixTrinidad said:


> Holy shit that was great. Oba Carr's mini rap song is >than Austin Trout's entire career.


Yeah just for your consideration, he'd hang in any era


----------



## JMP

turbotime said:


> Yeah just for your consideration, he'd hang in any era


Oba would've been a standout in this one.


----------



## turbotime

JMP said:


> Oba would've been a standout in this one.


He'd finally be champ :verysad


----------



## Leftsmash

I hope Tua is in this list.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#64 Wladimir Klitshcko*










It's not that I don't like Wlad.. I just don't like his fans.
The bottom line is we are witnessing one of the best '2nd tier' ATG Heavy of any era. By 2nd tier, I mean a tier a below the likes of Lewis,Tyson,Holyfield,Ali,Louis,Holmes.. in skillset and in resume...

Wladimir have great power, an ATG Jab, high end ring intelligence, and a unique method of defense which have now protected his extremely weak chin for a long time. What Wlad does not have is: aggression, inside game, ability to adapt,variety and quite frankly the mentality of a 1st Tier Heavy. That being said his run has been long,boring,dull, but also impressive.

This is the poem I wrote for Wlad.........:

* Pride of Ukrainia*
Titan out of Kazakh walking tall....gentle giant with a tendency to fall. Mocked and ridiculed for his cautious ways, mock on he smiles .. I'll be appreciated one day.
Great Champion with that laser jab, right hand so hard stops Zeus with a tab. Prostitutes,drugs and assault? Let the Mannys and the Floyds break the laws.

'I live clean and I live right' My soul is bright and my heart is light. That's the Wladimir code..his spirit's been wounded but he never once broke. Sanders lefts left him gasping, Brewster hooks left him crying, Purrity strength let him falling, but he never once left quitting.

Lost two fathers, heart bleeding with sorrow, big brother Vitali let him know there'll always be a tomorrow. Thank you Emmanuel for giving me hope thank you Dad for giving me life.. I'll live to the fullest and make you both proud.. I been down but I'll never be out.

I watched Floyd and I watched Manny, I watched Bernard and I watched Juan.. but to me there's only one.

Wladimir Klitschko I'm proud to say... you sir are MY CHAMPION OF THE DECADE.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#63 Mike Tyson(1st Edition)*









One thing I noticed about a lot of Tyson fans throughout the years is that they genuinely believe that there are actually multiple dimensions of Mike Tysons in existence.There's 'He's Young Doe Mike', there's 'Iron Mike', there's 'Post Douglas Mike' there's 'Thug Mike, there's 'Money Mike, there's 'Shot Mike, there's 'Corpse Mike' and there's 'Hollywood Mike'

Initially I was skeptical of all this and just put it down to delusional Miketards....but after conducting my own research I realized that posters like 'KidDynamite' was right all along.. There REALLY IS multiple variations of Mike Tyson.

There's actually dozens of them.. I had to split them down and narrow them down to 'four'.

Tyson 1st Edition(mid to late 80's)
Tyson 2nd Edition(early 90's)
Tyson 3rd Edition(mid 90's)
Tyson 4th Edition( Late 90's-early 2000's)

Coming in at #63 is Mike Tyson(1st Edition).......
Savagery and fire. Pain and blood. A human whirlwind of fists. That's what 1st Edition Mike was. Brutal and beautiful at the same time, he dominated the Heavyweight ranks at a very young age. Going through a slew of 80's fighters like the finest of knifes through the softest of butter. Frazier,Ratiff,Berbick,Thomas,Holmes.. he didn't beat them.. he butchered them. One of the greatest swamers of all times.. his combinations,hand speed, body punching, head movement, and timing left fighter after fighter befuddled and confused. We never seen such a human force of destruction and we probably never would again. Although 1st Edition Mike lacked the cunning and patience of the later editions(will get to that as they appear further up the rankings).. he was still one of the greatest fighters of any era. A true phenom.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#62 Chad Dawson*










American history is filled with elite fighters(mostly Black) who never had the chance to win a title. Chad Dawson was not one of them. In part due to his Show Time/HBO Backings but mostly because of his sheer abilities and skills. Chad Dawson's slaughter of Boxing's premier 175 Division began with a clinic against Jason Naugler, moved on to Jamie Hearn who never landed a punch, jumped to Eric Harding, and culminated in a dazzling performance against Tomasz Adamek. 
Adamek(one of the greatest fighters of this era) lost from the starting bell and despite putting up a valiant effort, was outclassed throughout the fight. Dawson's ingenuity showed in his subtle footwork, his intellectual control of distance, his sensational counter punching, and his seemingly endless workrate. A true master piece put on by Dawson, and Adamek for one of the very few times in his life came out second best.

Dawson's contempt of boxing royalty continued as he effortlessly dominated another great fighter in Antonio Tarver. Faster, more aggressive, sharper, more accurate, better movement, and a more indepth range of offensive arsenal. Dawson never looked back as he shot down another boxing great.

A third legend was added to Chad's trophy cabinet as the never aging Bernard Hopkins finally showed his age against Chad in a shockingly gutless performance which saw the great Bernard looking for a way out from the opening bell. Hopkins did attempt to make a fight out of it in the rematch but was utterly out classed by a bigger and more skilled opponent. 
Dawson's peak ended after Hopkins and weather it's due to complacency or simply frustration at the lack of big money fights.. Chad mentally quit on himself and never regained the brilliance of his earlier years.


----------



## tommygun711

Word. Chad Dawson over Mike Tyson, Pernell Whitaker, Greb, & Wlad (not to forget all the other guys)


----------



## turbotime

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#65 'Irish' Andre Ward*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andre Ward is the greatest SMW of our generation.
> He have received a lot of criticism for fighing at home.
> I disagree with the critics. Nothing wrong with defending your castle.
> This poem is for you Andre. Keep doing your thang Big Dog.
> 
> 'Oakland Love'
> 
> I love my home I'll never leave.
> You want a match? Come and you shall receive.
> Oakland Oakland I shall Defend.
> I'll stay snuggled here till the bitter end.
> Even if I was 10 Million in debt.
> I'll not leave Oakland.. not one step.
> Don't you mistake Carson City for an away fight.
> It's only 7 hours... I got home that very night.
> I love my City I love my bed.
> 30,000 in Nottingham? Nah I'll do 6,000 instead.
> Hey guys guess what I'm vacationing in Dubai!!!
> Just kidding .. staying right here eating my home grown pie.
> 
> I am Andre Ward.. and I love my province.


:rofl

@bballchump11


----------



## bballchump11

turbotime said:


> :rofl
> 
> @bballchump11


:lol: that's pretty good


----------



## tommygun711

> 30,000 in Nottingham? Nah I'll do 6,000 instead.


If he fought in Nottingham he'd get robbed


----------



## Drew101

FelixTrinidad said:


> Lennox Lewis was the fists of British Boxing, Joe Calzaghe was the stomach,Carl Froch was the kneecap,Ricky Hatton was the Heart,Nigel Benn was the teeth, Chris Eubank was the thighs, but Frank Bruno?
> 
> Big Frank Bruno?
> 
> He was the soul.


:rofl

Fucking...*amazing*.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#61 Bernard Hopkins*










Young Tortoise ever so slow...Young Tortoise hurry up and go!
Roy Jones Hare is winning this race..
Everyone's passing you.. you're such a disgrace!
Tortoise is patient and tortoise is sly..
Watching all these rabbits fly on by.
For Tortoise knows it's all patience and will
The roads ahead are mostly up hill
Tortoise getting older..now gaining ground
Roy Jones hare he's slowing down.
'I'll think I'll just rest a bit'
'I'm just napping I definitely won't quit'
Roy Jones hare now looking back with doubt.
It's been a decade how is Tortoises still not out.
Roy Jones hare sighs looking at the long hard road.
Tortoise still so young but Roy's getting oh so old.
Tortoise is gaining now.. he's only behind half a lap!
Roy Jones hare carelessly fall into the hunter's trap.
Tortoise calmly pasts him by... that's one dead looking rabbit my oh my.

Andre Ward Rabbit he LOOKS SO FAST!.
Tortoise smiles not worried because he's build to last.


----------



## the cobra

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#61 Bernard Hopkins*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Young Tortoise ever so slow...Young Tortoise hurry up and go!
> Roy Jones Hare is winning this race..
> Everyone's passing you.. you're such a disgrace!
> Tortoise is patient and tortoise is sly..
> Watching all these rabbits fly on by.
> For Tortoise knows it's all patience and will
> The roads ahead are mostly up hill
> Tortoise getting older..now gaining ground
> Roy Jones hare he's slowing down.
> 'I'll think I'll just rest a bit'
> 'I'm just napping I definitely won't quit'
> Roy Jones hare now looking back with doubt.
> It's been a decade how is Tortoises still not out.
> Roy Jones hare sighs looking at the long hard road.
> Tortoise still so young but Roy's getting oh so old.
> Tortoise is gaining now.. he's only behind half a lap!
> Roy Jones hare carelessly fall into the hunter's trap.
> Tortoise calmly pasts him by... that's one dead looking rabbit my oh my.
> 
> Andre Ward Rabbit he LOOKS SO FAST!.
> Tortoise smiles not worried because he's build to last.


Word. :deal


----------



## Theron

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#61 Bernard Hopkins*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Young Tortoise ever so slow...Young Tortoise hurry up and go!
> Roy Jones Hare is winning this race..
> Everyone's passing you.. you're such a disgrace!
> Tortoise is patient and tortoise is sly..
> Watching all these rabbits fly on by.
> For Tortoise knows it's all patience and will
> The roads ahead are mostly up hill
> Tortoise getting older..now gaining ground
> Roy Jones hare he's slowing down.
> 'I'll think I'll just rest a bit'
> 'I'm just napping I definitely won't quit'
> Roy Jones hare now looking back with doubt.
> It's been a decade how is Tortoises still not out.
> Roy Jones hare sighs looking at the long hard road.
> Tortoise still so young but Roy's getting oh so old.
> Tortoise is gaining now.. he's only behind half a lap!
> Roy Jones hare carelessly fall into the hunter's trap.
> Tortoise calmly pasts him by... that's one dead looking rabbit my oh my.
> 
> Andre Ward Rabbit he LOOKS SO FAST!.
> Tortoise smiles not worried because he's build to last.


:clap:


----------



## turbotime

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#61 Bernard Hopkins*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Young Tortoise ever so slow...Young Tortoise hurry up and go!
> Roy Jones Hare is winning this race..
> Everyone's passing you.. you're such a disgrace!
> Tortoise is patient and tortoise is sly..
> Watching all these rabbits fly on by.
> For Tortoise knows it's all patience and will
> The roads ahead are mostly up hill
> Tortoise getting older..now gaining ground
> Roy Jones hare he's slowing down.
> 'I'll think I'll just rest a bit'
> 'I'm just napping I definitely won't quit'
> Roy Jones hare now looking back with doubt.
> It's been a decade how is Tortoises still not out.
> Roy Jones hare sighs looking at the long hard road.
> Tortoise still so young but Roy's getting oh so old.
> Tortoise is gaining now.. he's only behind half a lap!
> Roy Jones hare carelessly fall into the hunter's trap.
> Tortoise calmly pasts him by... that's one dead looking rabbit my oh my.
> 
> Andre Ward Rabbit he LOOKS SO FAST!.
> Tortoise smiles not worried because he's build to last.


Oh hell yes :bowdown


----------



## MadcapMaxie

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#61 Bernard Hopkins*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Young Tortoise ever so slow...Young Tortoise hurry up and go!
> Roy Jones Hare is winning this race..
> Everyone's passing you.. you're such a disgrace!
> Tortoise is patient and tortoise is sly..
> Watching all these rabbits fly on by.
> For Tortoise knows it's all patience and will
> The roads ahead are mostly up hill
> Tortoise getting older..now gaining ground
> Roy Jones hare he's slowing down.
> 'I'll think I'll just rest a bit'
> 'I'm just napping I definitely won't quit'
> Roy Jones hare now looking back with doubt.
> It's been a decade how is Tortoises still not out.
> Roy Jones hare sighs looking at the long hard road.
> Tortoise still so young but Roy's getting oh so old.
> Tortoise is gaining now.. he's only behind half a lap!
> Roy Jones hare carelessly fall into the hunter's trap.
> Tortoise calmly pasts him by... that's one dead looking rabbit my oh my.
> 
> Andre Ward Rabbit he LOOKS SO FAST!.
> Tortoise smiles not worried because he's build to last.


Wow that was fucking mint. Good shit Felix keep 'em coming.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#60 Oliver Mccall*










If Jake Lamotta was bigger,Black,and crazy.. he would be Oliver Mccall.
The ironest of iron men, granite personafied,diamond mixed with corundum. Mccall has displayed a freakish ability to take punishment to such a degree, he could be called a sadist. Does he relish in the pain? Was it ever a sexual thing with him? What made his brain so different from the other boxers? Whatever it was, Oliver Mccall has shown that not only could he take the punches of Lewis,Mercer,and Tyson.. he begged for more. 
Roy jones Jr once ironically said 'I can't be touched I can't be stopped'............I think the best way to describe 
Mccall would be to use that lyric with one minor word change.

'I CAN be touched... I can't be stopped'


----------



## FelixTrinidad

* #59 Igor Vysotsky *

First of all I am one of these people who very rarely put much stock in amateur 
boxing. I feel that the Pro Ranks is an entirely different game and while having a great 
amateur career is certainly a good thing, it is by no means a guarantee you will go on to 
replicate that success in the Pro-Ranks. But, as with every norm there are always 
exceptions, and in the case of amateur boxing there are three:
Igor Vysotsky and the much more famous Cuban duet of Stevenson/Savon.

Igor Vysotsky was the man who famously defeated the great Stevenson not 
once but twice(the 2nd time by knockout).Klittards love to talk about how if the Soviet Curtain has fallen down. they 
would have done this and they would have done that.. and for the longest time I just put 
it down to delusional fanboyism.. Eventually I read some posts from the poster 'Vysotsky' 
regarding his namesake and conducted my own research.I can say without a doubt Igor Vystotsky is the real deal and I know that how 
well he performed in the amateurs does not indicate how well he would have been in the Pros... but I firmly believe he would have been one of the most dominant champions of all 
times.

What made Vysotsky so dangerous? What was his style?

At only 6 feet Vysotsky wasn't the tallest Heavyweight.. but he was unique in that he carried around 220-225 pounds of muscles on a very big frame. An utter bully on 
the inside and a genius counter puncher from afar... Igor was like a bigger version of Joe Frazier who also set traps to lure you in. His pressure is such that you must engage
(I would have loved to see a Pro version of Igor vs Wladimir).......he created his own style of bob and weave in that he will often slip punches while going sideways with his 
whole body as oppose to just head movement.It is in some ways similar to Tyson and Fraziers except that he added more caution and elusiveness. Vysotsky had brutal power in both hands.. ending more than half of his amateur bouts by knockout and he was relentless in his attacks. What made his attacks so unique was that at times he would turn into a 
counter puncher mid way through the actual engagement instead of meeting you head first like he did initially. This caused havoc and confusion among his many victims (Stevenson included) and ultimately led to his opponent's demise.

If Igor was allowed to turn pro..he would have seen his best years from around 1970-1975... putting him against an aging Ali, Joe Frazier,a young Foreman,Ken 
Norton and Larry Holmes.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#58 George Foreman*










Fearsome monster who could not be slayed.
Boxing's Goliath none could stand in his way.
Smokin Joe with the vicious left hook
Two quick rounds was all that it took.
Ken Norton with skills so sublime.
6 Minutes and he lost his prime.
Who could slay the beast who even stood a chance?
An aging Muhammad was invited to the dance.
Confused and tired.. the beast fought on
No longer seeing punches he was finally put down.
They lied to me they said this was my Jungle
It was a set up it was always Ali's rumble.

Soul fleeting his body...the monster left.
Heart broken and tired the monster slept.

The monster came back but respect no longer given
'Obese clown' you are no longer Boxing's great villian
Monster's now just a old old man.. couldn't keep up
with Young Vander's fast fast hands. Outboxed by Tommy
Retire now! Old man to the young champions you must bow!.
Speed like lightning Moorer won round after round.
The silence was deafening.. hardly a sound.
Suddenly Old Man became monster for just once more.
Young Champion never felt power like this before.

Big George smiles and he's finally at peace
Ghosts of Zaire finally release.

For just one night... there's no Muhammmad Ali
For just one night there's only me.


----------



## turbotime

Moooooreee!!!


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#57 Jack Johnson*









'Catcher Free man? Not today'

'I am the first Black Champion. You will not make me bow'
'I see my brothers fall. Oh no Catcher Freeman on the prowl'
'Come get me if you can. I'm no slave of the Southern White Man'
'Catcher Freeman you want to put me down? Parade me naked around Town?
' I sleep with masta's daughter. I loved it so.'
'I think she did as well because she never said no'
'Or maybe she did.. but no means yes'
' Trust me ... when it comes to wommin Big Jack knows best'
I'm the champion I'm ducked by the Whites.
'Trying to lynch me? Give me sleepless nights?
I AM NOT SCARED. I WILL NOT shake.
'I slept with master's sister too right by that lake'
'Catcher Freeman... You listen I'M HERE TO STAY.
Catcher freeman defeat me? No ... Not today.


----------



## dyna

Wasn't Joe Gans the first black champion?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

dyna said:


> Wasn't Joe Gans the first black champion?


Who the hell is Joe Gans?


----------



## dyna

FelixTrinidad said:


> Who the hell is Joe Gans?


http://coxscorner.tripod.com/gans.html


----------



## FelixTrinidad

dyna said:


> http://coxscorner.tripod.com/gans.html


Sorry.. that don't work well with my poem.

Maybe I'll consider him in a future ranking if I deem him worthy of being called an ATG.

Oh it says he's a *light weight*.. Ya no.

Jack Johnson was the first Black Champion.


----------



## dyna

FelixTrinidad said:


> Sorry.. that don't work well with my poem.
> 
> Maybe I'll consider him in a future ranking if I deem him worthy of being called an ATG.


He's considered to be one of the three lightweight greats.
In the early 1900s considered the greatest fighter ever and McGrain got him at p4p nr 8


----------



## FelixTrinidad

dyna said:


> He's considered to be one of the three lightweight greats.
> In the early 1900s considered the greatest fighter ever and McGrain got him at p4p nr 8


Very interesting....... I'll read up on what Mcgrain has to say..That little scrapper.

I'll conduct my own research and rank him accordingly. Thanks for letting me know about this Joe Gans.

Great contribution.


----------



## Mugshot

FelixTrinidad said:


> Who the hell is Joe Gans?


:lol: I finally get what's going in here. And it's hilarious.


----------



## Drew101

dyna said:


> Wasn't Joe Gans the first black champion?


That would be George Dixon. :deal


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#56 Joe Gans*





Unfortunately there's not much footage available of the great Joe Gans.. I did come up with this highlight clip though and I got to say.. Mcgrain was right all along. What a fighter!!!

Mcgrain showered these praises on Gans:

."""" It can be argued that Gans represents the culmination of boxing technique and that since his reign fighters have done nothing more than flesh out the bones of the technical blueprint he embodied.""""""

Despite the highlights being extremely blurry and unclear.. I can still see the brilliance of Gans. With soulful music blasting in the background.. I see a flurry of punches thrown at ultra charged speed. I read up on Mcgrain's long long list of opponents Gans have defeated and although very few footage can be found of those opponents as well. I naturally assume they are greats. I mean after all.. How can you not be great if you are good enough to fight against the great Joe Gans?

Sam Langford said that 'Gans was the greatest fighter he's ever seen'
Despite the fact that Langford died in 1956 and missed out on every fighter after that date.. I take Langford's words for it.. because so great was Langford's greatness.

Pauli Malginini also said Floyd Mayweather is the greatest fighter he's ever seen. But hey..Who do I trust? Pauli or Sam Langford? Exactly.

Every fighter who ever fought against Gans said Gans was great.
Ironically every fighter who ever fought against Pacquaio also said Pacquaio was great.

Interesting.

Let's not think too much about that... It might hurt our brains. It's just all agree GANS AND PACQUAIO ARE BOTH GREAT.


----------



## the cobra

Like the truly great researcher and writer he is, Felix notes an oversight of his and_ immediately_ alters his list to fix it. Class.


----------



## JMP

Your poetry was superb to begin with, Felix, but it's actually improving leaps and bounds as the placings continue. The Foreman, Ward, Hopkins, and Johnson ones are fucking awesome.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#55 Floyd Patterson*










Was I too much of a gentleman in a brute's game?
Perhaps my gentle nature was the one to blame?
I never was fill with savagery or rage.
Is that what's needed for boxing's greatest stage?
Others wanted wealth I just wanted to appreciate the night sky.
Never needed much money just enough to get on by.
Ali's fists and insults shattered my dreams.
Pushed to anger but never let out one scream.
As I looked back at my life so rich and vast.
No matter what they say.. I KNOW nice guys DON'T finish last.


----------



## tommygun711

Can't wait for the Muhammad Ali write up.


----------



## Drew101

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#55 Floyd Patterson*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was I too much of a gentleman in a brute's game?
> Perhaps my gentle nature was the one to blame?
> I never was fill with savagery or rage.
> Is that what's needed for boxing's greatest stage?
> Others wanted wealth I just wanted to appreciate the night sky.
> Never needed much money just enough to get on by.
> Ali's fists and insults shattered my dreams.
> Pushed to anger but never let out one scream.
> As I looked back at my life so rich and vast.
> No matter what they say.. I KNOW nice guys DON'T finish last.


Damn...


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#54 James Figg*

As I read the 'All Time Great' lists of other esteemed writers like myself.. I often see a high number of 'old school'fighters occupying the upper echelons of these lists. As I mentioned several times before, very little to no footage could be found of these fighters.

The most common reasoning and criteria given were :
1-Eye Witnesses reports validate the greatness of these fighters.
2-We can only judge greatness according to era.

Going by these points........... numerous fighters from the 1940's, 1930's and 1920's were placed in the upper ranks. It seem as if the further back we go, the more amazing some of these fighters get. So I thought to myself 'Why just research the 1920's? FORGET THAT. Imma do one better.
I'm going 1700's!

I give you James 'You Dig' Figg.

The 'Earl of of Peterborough' was so impressed by Figg.. he decided to sponsor him. The Earl called Figg 'a great fighter' 'best I ever seen' (eye witness shoutout and by an EARL, not just any eye witness)
Captain Godfrey(a Captain) said that 'Figg was my teacher, he left many bruises on my body'
There is no footage of Godfrey either.. but I'm naturally going to assume that he's a great fighter because it will support my rankings more.
Figg beat up Godfrey so bad.. Godfrey called him 'Teacher' and actually started training under him. Amazing.

One of Figg's most famous matches was against fellow ATG Ned 'The Beast' Sutton. (Who also made pipes)
The bout generated massive interest and SIR Robert Walpole himself was in attendance.

Figg and Sutton apparently DUELED with SWORDS prior to the actual boxing match.(Imagine that)

Eye Witnesses(shout out) have this to say about the match:
Sutton landed a blow that was so powerful that Figg was knocked clean off the stage and into the audience. Figg recovered and went on to punch Sutton to the floor.

Judging by eye witness reports we can conclude two things:
1-Sutton got monstrous ATG Power
2-Figg got unbelievable recovery rate.

Figg also held and defended his title for almost 20 YEARS!!!. Consistency,brutality,and power. Figg meets all the criteria that Greb did:

'Great Eye Witness Accounts'
'Dominance of his own era'
"His opponents went on to achieve great things during that era themselves'

So why isn't he on most people's lists? :huh

James Figg.. Ya Digg?


----------



## Ivan Drago

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#54 James Figg*
> 
> As I read the 'All Time Great' lists of other esteemed writers like myself.. I often see a high number of 'old school'fighters occupying the upper echelons of these lists. As I mentioned several times before, very little to no footage could be found of these fighters.
> 
> The most common reasoning and criteria given were :
> 1-Eye Witnesses reports validate the greatness of these fighters.
> 2-We can only judge greatness according to era.
> 
> Going by these points........... numerous fighters from the 1940's, 1930's and 1920's were placed in the upper ranks. It seem as if the further back we go, the more amazing some of these fighters get. So I thought to myself 'Why just research the 1920's? FORGET THAT. Imma do one better.
> I'm going 1700's!
> 
> I give you James 'You Dig' Figg.
> 
> The 'Earl of of Peterborough' was so impressed by Figg.. he decided to sponsor him. The Earl called Figg 'a great fighter' 'best I ever seen' (eye witness shoutout and by an EARL, not just any eye witness)
> Captain Godfrey(a Captain) said that 'Figg was my teacher, he left many bruises on my body'
> There is no footage of Godfrey either.. but I'm naturally going to assume that he's a great fighter because it will support my rankings more.
> Figg beat up Godfrey so bad.. Godfrey called him 'Teacher' and actually started training under him. Amazing.
> 
> One of Figg's most famous matches was against fellow ATG Ned 'The Beast' Sutton. (Who also made pipes)
> The bout generated massive interest and SIR Robert Walpole himself was in attendance.
> 
> Figg and Sutton apparently DUELED with SWORDS prior to the actual boxing match.(Imagine that)
> 
> Eye Witnesses(shout out) have this to say about the match:
> Sutton landed a blow that was so powerful that Figg was knocked clean off the stage and into the audience. Figg recovered and went on to punch Sutton to the floor.
> 
> Judging by eye witness reports we can conclude two things:
> 1-Sutton got monstrous ATG Power
> 2-Figg got unbelievable recovery rate.
> 
> Figg also held and defended his title for almost 20 YEARS!!!. Consistency,brutality,and power. Figg meets all the criteria that Greb did:
> 
> 'Great Eye Witness Accounts'
> 'Dominance of his own era'
> "His opponents went on to achieve great things during that era themselves'
> 
> So why isn't he on most people's lists? :huh
> 
> James Figg.. Ya Digg?


I digg.

Great inclusion, you have widened my boxing knowledge Felix thank you. I'm laughing :lol:, but also learning :think.


----------



## Stick and Move

Can't forget James Figg impressive record of 269 wins 1Loss to ATG Ned Sutton, with whom he beat in a rematch.


----------



## Juiceboxbiotch

Petchsamuthr Duanaaym ukdahan


----------



## dyna

Stick and Move said:


> Can't forget James Figg impressive record of 269 wins 1Loss to ATG Ned Sutton, with whom he beat in a rematch.


He's like Lo*man*chenko his dad


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#53 #52 Lamont Brewster and Sergei Liakhovich*









Matt Mcgrain had this to say about Erik Morales and Marco Antonio Barrera.

""
There are no ties on this list.
Nevertheless some fighters are so closely linked that it is not possible to write about one without discussing the other. How, in the end, do you go about separating Erik Morales and Marco Antonio Barrera? They couldn't even do it themselves"""

Initially I didn't get what he was rambling about and just put it down as over sensationalization........

Yet, as I work my way further up and up this list... I encountered a roadblock similiar to Mcgrain's.

Lamont Brewster and Sergei Liakhovich. Mcgrain was right after all... how is it possible to discuss one without discussing the other? Two of the modern Heavyweight greats who gave us one of the most heart stopping trilogies of all times. It's not a 'trilogy' in the traditional sense of the word. Because they actually only fought once. It's a trilogy in that the fight was so great calling it in it's singular form will be an extreme insult.

A combined 475 pounds of Heavyweight Muscles.. the two stormed through the Heavyweight Division on route to each other. So powerful was this two headed Godzilla that they at the end had to turn against one another, berefted of their Motras and Ghidorahs.

What followed was a blood curling fight of the highest cruelty. The two warriors looked into a mirror as they stood across the ring.. so simliar were they in greatness.Punches that had Wladimir Klitschko flopping on the ground like a gutted fish was absorbed by Liakhovich as he pressed for more... Punches that wiped out Ed White in just 1 round... was absorbed by Brewster for 12..In many ways this was a bigger, more savaged and more skilled version of Toney-Maccallum. The counters and the slips were still there.. but while Toney-Maccallum would simply reset.. Lamont and Sergei bombed each other with titanic sized missles... The ring generalship was still there but while Toney-Maccallum would simply retreat behind their jabs.. Lamont and Sergei met each other in the middle and dished out elephantine like punishment. Sergei emerged victorious at the end, but the real winners were the fans.

I personally have Brewster above Sergei by one single spot.. but it is highly debatable and millions of boxing fans worldwide have talked continously over which one of these greats was truely better.

It matters not. There are two things that we can all agree on.

1-They were Heavyweights
2-They were Magnificent.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#51 Wifred Benitez*










4+1

Maybe I never did have Tommy's power.
Yet many opponents will tremble will cower.
Maybe I never had Duran's story.
Yet that night it was me covered in glory.
Maybe I never had Leonard's flash
Maybe to me there are things more important than cash?
For this sport I gave my health.
The Island's love my greatest wealth.

Someone once said he saw Leonard-Benitez live.
'A member of the Fab Four' It sure was worth the drive.
 I smiled sadly wanting to say , 'No he watched two members of the Fab Five'


----------



## JoKeR

^^ Good shit.


----------



## the cobra

I wonder where @FelixTrinidad is going to rank Felix Trinidad? :think


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#50 Felix Trinidad.*

I'm not going to talk about Tito's amazing career because the vast majority of you should be familiar with the dazzling Purto Rican superstar already.
Instead I would like to share a little story in regards to why I choose the name 'FelixTrinidad'(on forums and as a nickname in life)

My favorite boxer is Lennox Lewis, I am not Purto Rican, I rarely care what happens at Welterweight, and I am not even a Trinidad fan. So why did I choose his name?

When I was 11 years old and still in the 8th Grade...I had a crush on this Purto Rican girl name Camila. She was 3 years older and had the most hauntingly beautiful brown eyes. Heart shaped face and a smile to melt any heart. Her little brother who was 13.. just happened to be the biggest Tito Trinidad fan. He loved Trinidad and was as heart broken as a 11 year old boy could be when Tito lost to Hopkins and retired. When he heard Tito was coming back.. it was one of the happiest days of his life.. A week later he was diagnosed with cancer. His family had to spend all their money on his treatments and as it became more and more obvious he wasn't going to have much longer.. he told his big sister one day that he wanted to go see a Trinidad fight prior to dying.

She told me this one day as I stare adoringly into her soulful eyes and I decided right there and than that I was going to save up enough money to get him front row tickets to the next Tito fight.
I estimated that I would need around $1100 for this to happen. Air fare, Hotel, tickets(This was prior to Mayorga-Tito being announced but I somehow remembered thinking that for sure Tito's next fight will be at MSG)

For the first and last time in my life.. I didn't ask my Mom for money. I didn't ask anyone. Instead as a 11 year old boy.. I sold lemonades. 25 Cents per drink. I sold lemonades every single day for almost a year.......and I slowly saved up. I ended up selling 4,400 cups of freshly squeezed lemonade mixed with sugar.
I took all that money and I went to my grandfather.......and I told him what it was for. It was the first time I seen my grandfather cry. We got Camila's little brother the whole package. He had the most fun ever and he watched Trinidad be great for one last night as Tito beat Mayorga in style. He passed away 3 months later.

I took this name as a 'nick name' in real life. Everybody knows me as Felix Trinidad........ I spar and will enter the amateur ranks soon as 'Felix Trinidad. Not because I'm a huge fan of Tito's.. in fact I can hardly be considered a fan at all. I took this name because it reminded me of courage and determination.. courage and determination that I know I will soon need as I embark on my amateur journey into this most brutal of sports.

I never did get that beautiful Purto Rican girl.. but if you ask me would I sell all these lemonades again? 
With all my heart............... yes. Yes I would.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

As a interlude I would like to apologize in advance to the fans of Henry Armstrong.


----------



## Mugshot

You beautiful soul.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#49 Jermain Taylor*










Taylor is the first fighter to grace the upper half of Boxing's greatest. A tremendously gifted fighter with one of the greatest jabs captured on film.. Taylor twice defeated ATG Middleweight Legend Bernard Hopkins. Perhaps it was Taylor's athleticism and hand speed that so confused the legendary Hopkins, perhaps it was Taylor's power and length, perhaps it was Taylor's ring generalship and his ability to gauge Hopkin's every move prior to Hopkins making it, or perhaps Taylor was just greater. Whatever it was, Taylor won 14 of 24 rounds on route to two of the greatest victories in modern boxing.

It will be selling Jermain short to claim his two wins over Hopkins was all that he had. His slaughter of Marquez, his underrated war with Winky where he showed savagery and skills in equal measure, and his win over Joppy are all good wins. But it is the two defining conquests of Hopkins that so elevate Taylor above the fighters that made up 100-50. Outside of Lennox Lewis's back to back conquests of fellow ATG Evander Holyfield, I find myself hard pressed to find any other fighter who had consecutive wins of such high caliber as Jermaine's over Bernard's. A true ring artist and a pugilist poet of the highest order.. Jermain Taylor deserves more credit than he received and it is my duty to rank him accordingly.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

In light of Kelly's recent addictions, I wrote a letter to him. I'm one of his biggest fans but I need to dumb myself down so he could understand. I need to speak in Kelly Language. Hope you get well soon K-Man.

Dear Kelly
I'm writing you hopefully you all right
Drinking is bad man find other things to do at night
Maybe sex or jack off or something.. get them apple bottom
Big booty girls or maybe play some hold em
Hey man you a father.. don't you have a daughter
I wanna be a father one day too 
Take her to school and watch her be cute
Like that's important man family stuff.
I know quitting is hard I know it's tough.
But you were MW Champ man you knocked out Taylor
Think about your wife man .. don't you love her.
I don't wanna see you become a bum.
Man dude why can't you quit you this dumb?
I'm sorry I don't mean to call you stupid.
You were my hero man..I need a cupid
I like this girl.. you think she like me?
She like Purto Rican they so pretty.
Man you gotta stop drinking Kelly please.
That's like worst than catching a disease.
Be ok.. please stop. I rememer the days you were on top.
Dude I love you man. I got you on my top 100 List
I just watched a porno...the things you can do with your fist.
I rather you be fisting than drinking though.
it's winter, if you get drunk we can't find you in the snow.


----------



## JMP

Wasn't Kelly Pavlik rated 89th, as well?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

JMP said:


> Wasn't Kelly Pavlik rated 89th, as well?


Ya.. but his drinking problem just resurfaced...............so I'm thinking of merging the letter and write up.

The issue right now is deciding weather Kelly is top 90 or top 50.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

JMP said:


> Wasn't Kelly Pavlik rated 89th, as well?


Great catch btw....
Now the real debate begins..

How can Kelly be ranked at 89 if he beat Jermain twice who beat ATG Hopkins twice(back to back).
BUT than Hopkins destroyed Pavlik.........................:huh
I'll need to ponder this.


----------



## MadcapMaxie

FelixTrinidad said:


> Ya.. but his drinking problem just resurfaced...............so I'm thinking of merging the letter and write up.
> 
> The issue right now is deciding weather Kelly is top 90 or top 50.


I know this list is mostly for the lulz but Pavlik isn't even top 500.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

MadcapMaxie said:


> I know this list is mostly for the lulz but Pavlik isn't even top 500.


Ok I'll play along... But just out of curiosity who do you have ranked higher Pavlik or Taylor?


----------



## Duffy

KFTusassunda said:


> 1putas vip lima relatos cortos xxxmenores veteranas con la vagina abierta vaginas de jovencitas 100 free gratis Better start liking girls now fullmovie  nxnn secretarÃ*as xvideosrosarinos borrachas violadas ala fuerza videos porno desvirgando niÃ±as porno juvenil de 13a 16 relatos eroticos vacaciones en la playa sdpa galleries serviporno de colombianas arjentinass peluda cuca gayviendohombredormidoylomanoseavideoenespaÃ±ol.    mujeres culean con perrosBer prono chupando vajinarafael alencar folladoSexo en mÃ©xico gratis en 3gpnotiblog videos caserosPorno formosalas conejitas de mardelinterracial de colombianas infragantipedro morenodesnudo verga paradaanal no soportado por el dolorChicas guatemaltecas de corte porno jaen jovencitas lesbianas de girardot viejas argentinas culiando videos latinos borrachos desnudos minimodel porn pics leg and round ass oiled domination pics madura beatiful pussy videos de pornografia de costa rica virgenes para ver cucas de 12 anos sangrando siendo desvirgadas videos pornos gratis en 3gp. chupandolachocha videosvergonesnegrosgays http www beeg free com llega borracho y se folla a su prima dormida html licras ajustadas marcando panocha fotos vajina con pelos vaginas en tanga Â´prno flaquitas golosas CULOS DENEGRASBIEN ABIERTOS. abuelitas teniendo sexo porno con perros en videos latin dingoz culo sexo casero vouyurista vaginas en las playas nudistas buscandovideos pornos teen 18 tracey coleman gallery ver video completo con caballos. petardas com pe videos de putas de alamo ver peliculas de vidos de p0rno con jovencitas niÃ±as de 13 folladas madres ensenandoles a sus ijas acojer young hairy strip pantyhose in clothed transparents mexseco panochas escuriendo de mojadas. colegiana se masturba con la tangahttp co msn com ocid iehpmilftoomniÃ±as virjenes putas cojiendodonde encontrar fotos porno de indigenas de Guatemalacamara oculta teniendo sexo en lugares rarosvideos xxxjaponesasabusas en el autobusred u0020tubever videos pornos caserosnenas penetradasvideos pornos muy violento www videos la mujer por n no oxo garficos hosexotubeniÃ±as fresas cogieandrea tenuta peliculas porno videos porno de laisha wilkins perez comwww xnxx com www porno espanolabout InPrivatevideos porno gratis xvideos xalapeÃ±osseÃ±oras cojiendo en hoteles VIDEOS PORNOS SEÃ'ORAS ESPIANDO VERGASelpajote com xvideos vergas descumunales gay gratiswww espiando a mi mujer cambiandose PELUDAS EN LA PLAYAjulie csah porno foPapa se monta un trio con sus dos hijas las pollas mas grandes en accionputa de cabimas pijudos cojiendopijas de chicos guapos mujere con la popola grande y lechera y sexi xxxxxxxx   mujerescojydaspoelculobyoladas teens colegialas de dinamarca putas suizas colegialas desnudas google ww como niÃ±as con ****** nativos de Ã¡frica COJIENDO nylons secretaris plumper foto big gordas descargar videos porno mp4 para celular vaginas eyaculando FOTODECULOSROTOS atrebidas masturbadose. www vaquerasexi20 masajes eroticon en tegucigalpaxvideos gays ejipsegimnasta voyeur calzon debajo del leotardo mama y ija bideos pornosjizz de galilea montijo VIDECHICAENUDASgoogleyoutubewww youporn com youtube porno zooxxxlas putas Hombres cachondos con la verga parada en el pantalonimagenes vaginas llenas de semen naked susana zavaleta


Agreed.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#48-#46
The Three Amigos
Morales,Barrera,Marquez
*










'Dragon Slayers"
Three proud warriors marches out.
Hearts pounding for the upcoming bout.
Blood mixed with sweat and tears,
each pushed away their deepest fears.
Pac-Dragon's lair just ahead.. 
the dragon's angry the dragon's not been fed.
Marco leaps first! So strong and brave. 
Pac Dragon engulfed him. THIS IS MY CAVE!
Eric told Juan 'you stay behind, 
if things go bad the entrance easy to find'
Enganged in titantic battle with the beast.......
back and forth neither will ease.
Alas Eric wasn't strong enough,
Pac Dragon was too big just too too tough.
As the 2nd warrior fell Pac Dragon stared 
Juan never wavered he returned that glare.
The two engaged, what followed was pain.
Price was paid for every inch gain.
How long must this fight go on?
No end in sight...from dusk to dawn.
Suddenly wait Juan catches dragon by suprise!!
Dragon's falling! He's down! Juan's life prize!!

So happy so wonderful yet suddenly Juan felt so cold.
'Without my dragon.......what use am I to this world?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#45 Oscar De La Hoya
*










Chicano kid with Olympic Gold
The world watches as his story unfold.
So slick was Whitaker so fast so great.
Did Oscar win enough rounds? I counted eight.
Aging Mexican legend and young boy wonder.
Chavez brought a hammer, Oscar brought thunder.
Young lion take old lion's place.
Elder legend vanishes blood dripping from face.

Tito and Mosley. Golden Boy's moment in the sun?
Won two fights yet didn't even get one.
Could have taken the lesser road.
Stardom rises as Oscar got old.
Speed and reflexes no longer the same.
Heart and courage all that's remain.
Could have taken any fight hundreds in que.
Instead took on P4P one and two.
Lighter shade of brown..eyes like spring,smile like June
Sometimes I miss him while relaxing on a Sunday afternoon.


----------



## turbotime

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#45 Oscar De La Hoya
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chicano kid with Olympic Gold
> The world watches as his story unfold.
> So slick was Whitaker so fast so great.
> Did Oscar win enough rounds? I counted eight.
> Aging Mexican legend and young boy wonder.
> Chavez brought a hammer, Oscar brought thunder.
> Young lion take old lion's place.
> Elder legend vanishes blood dripping from face.
> 
> Tito and Mosley. Golden Boy's moment in the sun?
> Won two fights yet didn't even get one.
> Could have taken the lesser road.
> Stardom rises as Oscar got old.
> Speed and reflexes no longer the same.
> Heart and courage all that's remain.
> Could have taken any fight hundreds in que.
> Instead took on P4P one and two.
> Lighter shade of brown..eyes like spring,smile like June
> Sometimes I miss him while relaxing on a Sunday afternoon.


----------



## the cobra

#45 's _way_ too good a rank for De La Hoya. My only complaint about this otherwise immaculate list.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#44 Charley Burley*










Charley Burley
Born in the wrong era that was my curse.
I had skills to rule the Universe.
Walking by hotels where the White Champions sleep
My heart bleeds, unfairness so deep
You offer condolences, but I don't want your pity.
I just want to fight the best from every city.
Others got the shots.. their resumes so thin.
Yet the better me was ignored what was my sin?
My talent was great yet all I received was jests and leers.
I build the buildings but I'm left climbing the stairs.


----------



## turbotime

the cobra said:


> #45 's _way_ too good a rank for De La Hoya. My only complaint about this otherwise immaculate list.


Shaddup.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#43 Michael Spinks*









'KO 1'
My legacy is not knocked out in one.
Never forget about my light heavyweight run.
Boxing's ring general with hands of stone.
I'm not Duran but pound for pound I'll hold my own.
What about Qawi or how I knocked out Johnson in four?
But I guess all you remember was Tyson and me on the floor.

Study me a bit I'm not just Iron's high light reel.
Your life forgotten because of one night
Yourself in my shoes how would you feel?
I'm a heavyweight? I guess you forgot the light.

Go back in time and take a look.
Back in the days I had an entire division shook.

My name is Michael Spinks, but you'll just link me to Mike.
I can tell you about ..forget it.. 'KO 1' am I right?


----------



## the cobra

turbotime said:


> Shaddup.


I have a new, sexified avatar and this is all you have to say? :bart

Felix, put Rachael Cordingley at #42 , just to fuck with people.


----------



## the cobra

Oh, and that Spinks poem is quality.


----------



## turbotime

the cobra said:


> I have a new, sexified avatar and this is all you have to say? :bart
> 
> Felix, put Rachael Cordingley at #42 , just to fuck with people.


B Hops >>> Rachel



the cobra said:


> Oh, and that Spinks poem is quality.


Yeah that was tight. Me and @Hands of Iron are disgusted monthly with how people only think Spinks was some chickenshit that Tyson knocked out.


----------



## the cobra

turbotime said:


> B Hops >>> Rachel














> Yeah that was tight. Me and @*Hands of Iron* are disgusted monthly with how people only think Spinks was some chickenshit that Tyson knocked out.


This is the greatest thread of all time. :deal Sublime poetry and just stupidly brilliant comedic lines nestled in all over the place, not even drawing attention to themselves. Over and over again, just effortlessly hilarious. Like this:



> Originally posted by *FelixTrinidad*
> For the first and last time in my life.. I didn't ask my Mom for money.


_Seriously._


----------



## turbotime

the cobra said:


> This is the greatest thread of all time. :deal Sublime poetry and just stupidly brilliant comedic lines nestled in all over the place, not even drawing attention to themselves. Over and over again, just effortlessly hilarious. Like this:
> 
> _Seriously._


Genius thread and these poems are really great.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#42 Sandy Saddler*









Why does Felix have a picture of 'Sandy' from the American Musical 'Grease' instead of Sandy the Boxer?
How are they even related?

I'm going to explain right now. Listen.

Sandy the Boxer and Sandy from 'Grease' delivers the most important of life lessons.
Despite having the same 'First Name' they were actual polar opposites(initially).
Sandy the Boxer was widely criticized and hated for fighting too dirty, not respecting media members, and despite being one of the hardest punchers of all times,he was rarely thrilling to the casual fans. 
Sandy the 'Grease' girl was widely accepted by the casuals, beautiful,blonde,smart,and ambitious. She was the 'mainstream' girl but she fell in love with a 'side stream boy'. The Thug Danny.

Pressure mounted on both Sandys... The Boxer Sandy was told to be more thrilling, he was told to stop with his rough tactics, and he was told that he should follow and do what the mainstream media at the time wanted him to do. Fight the way they wanted him to fight. The Grease Girl Sandy felt pressure in that she didn't think her real personality could go well with Danny's. She was too 'good' for Danny and wasn't a 'greaser' girl.

The difference was that the boxer Sandy never once changed. He never once gave in to peer pressure and he always was himself. He lived being himself, he died being himself. He was never false. He never lived a lie. The 'Greaser' Sandy changed to 'fit in' with the 'bad boys and girls', she lived a lie. Ironically 'Danny' decided to become 'good' at the end to be with her.. but when he saw that she changed to someone of his 'old style' he reverted back into street punk mode and the two drove off probably to some poor and obscure life.

Be yourself people. Everybody else is already taken.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#41 Felix Sturm*









Felix is one of these fighters who are rarely appreciated and will always be underrated by most boxing fans. One of the greatest middleweights of all times(According to Ring Magazines.. they got him 7th), Sturm has lived a life of unfair criticism and scrutiny. They said he never left home, yet for his biggest fight he traveled all the way to Vegas and fought the great De La Hoya. They said he never took risks, yet how do you become a four time Middle Weight champion(only one behind Robinson) if you never took risks?
Felix brings with him an ATG jab, brilliant footwork, brutal power, athleticism combined with a utterly granite chin and ring cunning to match any champion.

As for all modern fighters of the middleweight Division.. comparisons have to be directly made to the legendary Bernard Hopkins. He is the odometer to which all others are judged and for that we must take a look back at what could have been.

Felix Sturm out fought and out jabbed a strangely lifeless De La Hoya back in 2004,instead of taking on Felix.. Hopkins took on the bigger money fight in Oscar. 
Bernard went on to lose against Jermaine Taylor in back to back contests. Sturm got a better jab than Taylor, he was more athletic, he had more power, a much better chin,more ring generalship, and more stamina.. In many ways he was what Taylor should have been.If the poor Man's version of Sturm managed to beat Hopkins in back to back contests, what would the actual Sturm do?

Felix dominated the WBA and IBF titles.. repeatly looking for challenges that were not there. Throughout his prime he begged for fighters to come and face him in Germany but none answered. Wright,Trinidad,Hopkins,Taylor,Pavlik and later on Martinez all refused to fly over and fight in front of a 50,000 strong crowd. Rather they stayed at home and fought in front of 11,000-18,000.Despite the lack of chances, Sturm still managed to build up an impressive resume and rightfully earned his Ring Magazine Rankings at #7 . A past prime Felix recently destroyed Prime Champion Darren Barker in 2 rounds. Hitting Barker so hard... Barker broke his back.

Something that I find interesting: Oscar De La Hoya is the owner of Ring Magazine, he and Sturm fought and Oscar lost the fight. Yet despite past hatreds Oscar STILL put Sturm at #7 . Greatness recognize greatness. Maybe some of you don't,maybe it's time to get out under the rock and take a look at this world. It's bright and beautiful out here.. and so is Sturm.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#40 Joe Frazier*









'Let me tell you about the day I met Smokin Joe'
'Walked into his gym my heart aglow'
'There I found a Boxing Hero.
'Shivering in temperature well below zero'
'He greeted me with a warm smile '
'Have a cup of coffee, let's talk a while'
'I was surprised when he said this was where he live.
'Family and friends don't they have anything to give?
He smiled and calmly reply.
'This place is cold but at least it's dry'
'Come see this picture of my greatest night'
'I remember this was from the first fight!
'Yes he smiled, suddenly standing tall.
'I was the first that made the great one fall'
'I spend some time but had to go'
'He walked me out in the falling snow'
He passed away shortly after.. 
I'll never forget how he met struggles with laughter.
Philadelphia finally honoring his namesake.
That statue came way too late.


----------



## elterrible

number 39 is either Chris John or Glen Johnson. I got them at a near tie.


----------



## Deborahduff

*Some words about diet plan with healthy fruit juice.*

Hello to all forum users. Quite a fascinating discussion right here of the current problem. It ought to be noted that recently, I myself started to apply the new juice diet. Outcome I was very surprised. In just a couple weeks, I lost TEN pounds. It's simply an incredible result for me. I had never sought this short time. I want to share with everyone one of my favorite  juice diets for weight loss recipes  Health Juice Recipe: 1 little to medium beetroot. Beetroot greens can be quite potent. If you do choose to use them, make an effort to get younger greens and use only two or three Three leaves at a time. 1 red tomato 4 carrots, discard greens as they are toxic 2 firm yellow pears 2 red apples 3 thick slices pineapple (wash before cutting) 4 brussel sprouts 4 white or purple cauliflower florets 2 arugula (rocket) leaves 6 Broccoli florets Method of preparing: Wash and prepare Fruit and veggies: Trim beetroot ends, peel thinly, and slice into chunks. Quarter tomato. Trim carrot ends and discard greens. Quarter the pears and apples (don't peel, but discard all seeds). Peel pineapple slices, discarding rind. Cut slices into strips. Bunch right up arugula (rocket) before juicing. Juicing: Add all of the vegetables and fruit to your juicer or perhaps juice extractor and juice. To discover the best add arugula, results, broccoli, apple and cauliflower with carrots. I hope you prefer this recipe!


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Deborahduff said:


> Hello to all forum users. Quite a fascinating discussion right here of the current problem. It ought to be noted that recently, I myself started to apply the new juice diet. Outcome I was very surprised. In just a couple weeks, I lost TEN pounds. It's simply an incredible result for me. I had never sought this short time. I want to share with everyone one of my favorite  juice diets for weight loss recipes  Health Juice Recipe: 1 little to medium beetroot. Beetroot greens can be quite potent. If you do choose to use them, make an effort to get younger greens and use only two or three Three leaves at a time. 1 red tomato 4 carrots, discard greens as they are toxic 2 firm yellow pears 2 red apples 3 thick slices pineapple (wash before cutting) 4 brussel sprouts 4 white or purple cauliflower florets 2 arugula (rocket) leaves 6 Broccoli florets Method of preparing: Wash and prepare Fruit and veggies: Trim beetroot ends, peel thinly, and slice into chunks. Quarter tomato. Trim carrot ends and discard greens. Quarter the pears and apples (don't peel, but discard all seeds). Peel pineapple slices, discarding rind. Cut slices into strips. Bunch right up arugula (rocket) before juicing. Juicing: Add all of the vegetables and fruit to your juicer or perhaps juice extractor and juice. To discover the best add arugula, results, broccoli, apple and cauliflower with carrots. I hope you prefer this recipe!


You the same motherfucker who posted that dirty slut Ukrainian porn shit in my great thread?
Fuck your whores and your prunes.


----------



## SP_Mauker

FelixTrinidad said:


> You the same motherfucker who posted that dirty slut Ukrainian porn shit in my great thread?
> Fuck your whores and your prunes.


link??


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#39 Carlos Monzon*










I personally feel that Monzon is the 39th greatest fighter of all times. Without question. But I'm going to do something unique here in posting an article that goes against the praises heaped on Monzon.

I disagree with the following but it is still an interesting read nevertheless.

July 1975

WBA Middleweight Champion Carlos Monzon (TKO 10) over Tony Licata.

Sports Illustrated

Carlos Monzon made his American debut at Madison Square Garden, in front of 13,496
boxing fans. Monzon, undefeated in his last '78' bouts, over the past 11 years, 
has a truly brilliant dosier. With a sculptured face, 6' 0" tall body, and perfect
physique, he resembles French actor, Jean-Paul Belmondo.

But that is where the excellence ends.

For those who say Carlos Monzon is a legend. That he is not.
He is mere footnote, the product of Latin generosity and emotion.

Oh yes, Carlos Monzon is heavy on the eyes. He is sloppy. He is slew.
He has no leverage, nor the slightest notion of how to achieve it.

His lack of velocity is stupefying and, on the evidence of this fight,
the next combination that he throws, will be his first.

His posing against Tampa-based Tony Licata, a 23 year-old Middleweight with 
moderate accomplishments, resembled a 'cigar-store Indian'.

The 32 year-old Champion, at 6' 0" and 160 lbs, is lean and strong.
But anything else than that, we have not found it. The one word we can
say that describes this so-called Argentinian Legend is, 'overrated'.

His victory over Tony Licata, improved the glamorous looking
Monzon to 84-3-9 (58 KO's). But, boxing does not seem to be his 
top priority, that is reserved for his after-fight partying.

Despite the unimpressive performance, Trainer Gil Clancy stated that
Monzon would give Sugar Ray Robinson a very difficult time. 
'He's very strong and extremely difficult to fight' Clancy said.

We think not. The one place Carlos Monzon would not be difficult for
Sugar Ray Robinson, is in the ring. Outside the ring, maybe.


----------



## Brnxhands

this is one long ass troll thread, damn bro


----------



## PityTheFool

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#39 Carlos Monzon*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I personally feel that Monzon is the 39th greatest fighter of all times. Without question. But I'm going to do something unique here in posting an article that goes against the praises heaped on Monzon.
> 
> I disagree with the following but it is still an interesting read nevertheless.
> 
> July 1975
> 
> WBA Middleweight Champion Carlos Monzon (TKO 10) over Tony Licata.
> 
> Sports Illustrated
> 
> Carlos Monzon made his American debut at Madison Square Garden, in front of 13,496
> boxing fans. Monzon, undefeated in his last '78' bouts, over the past 11 years,
> has a truly brilliant dosier. With a sculptured face, 6' 0" tall body, and perfect
> physique, he resembles French actor, Jean-Paul Belmondo.
> 
> But that is where the excellence ends.
> 
> For those who say Carlos Monzon is a legend. That he is not.
> He is mere footnote, the product of Latin generosity and emotion.
> 
> Oh yes, Carlos Monzon is heavy on the eyes. He is sloppy. He is slew.
> He has no leverage, nor the slightest notion of how to achieve it.
> 
> His lack of velocity is stupefying and, on the evidence of this fight,
> the next combination that he throws, will be his first.
> 
> His posing against Tampa-based Tony Licata, a 23 year-old Middleweight with
> moderate accomplishments, resembled a 'cigar-store Indian'.
> 
> The 32 year-old Champion, at 6' 0" and 160 lbs, is lean and strong.
> But anything else than that, we have not found it. The one word we can
> say that describes this so-called Argentinian Legend is, 'overrated'.
> 
> His victory over Tony Licata, improved the glamorous looking
> Monzon to 84-3-9 (58 KO's). But, boxing does not seem to be his
> top priority, that is reserved for his after-fight partying.
> 
> Despite the unimpressive performance, Trainer Gil Clancy stated that
> Monzon would give Sugar Ray Robinson a very difficult time.
> 'He's very strong and extremely difficult to fight' Clancy said.
> 
> We think not. The one place Carlos Monzon would not be difficult for
> Sugar Ray Robinson, is in the ring. Outside the ring, maybe.


Felix,you and me have always been cool here,and @turbotime will tell you I shouted loudly for your freedom....

But take that fucking post back rapido! Monzon is a genuine top 20 contender.

You better have Ray top 3 to make up for this kiddo.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

PityTheFool said:


> Felix,you and me have always been cool here,and @turbotime will tell you I shouted loudly for your freedom....
> 
> But take that fucking post back rapido! Monzon is a genuine top 20 contender.
> 
> You better have Ray top 3 to make up for this kiddo.


There are a LOT of great fighters between 40-20 though.. I just felt like it was interesting actually reading 'negative' things every once in a while regarding certain ATG fighters ya know?
I never read that SI Article before and is curious as to why the writer wrote the things he did. Could he have been just a 'hater'? Or did he see something the rest of us did not?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#38 Joe Calzaghe*









The boogeyman of Boxing's 168 Division, Joe Calzaghe is hands down the greatest super middle weight of all times. Joe dominated the storied Division in emphatic fashion, forever putting his foot down in a giant stomp of greatness. Defending his title a record 21 times with honor and courage, Joe was rarely in a close fight and wiped out all competition. He decimated Prime Lacy, brutalized Prime Kessler, and went up in weight to take down the legendary Bernard Hopkins. Hopkins would go on to break records of his own at the 175 Divison. Calzaghe to this day is still under appreciated and loathed by many for the beating he put on a Past Prime Roy Jones Jr. As a boxing fan I can afford to be bias, as a boxing writer I can not. I have Joe firmly in the top 40 among all the greats and he sure as Hell earned it.

'Super Joe'
Joe Calzaghe the Prince of Wales.
Comparable to Roy but 08 tipped the scales.
Calzaghe won 11 of 12 rounds.
Now now Roy fans stop those frowns!
Cherry Picking wasn't his style!
You call it avoiding I call it guile.
He's known as the Welsh energy bunny.
His ferocity reminds me of a heavyweight name Sonny
He beat Kessler and Hopkins as well.
His defense was sublime,you can't pentrate that shell.
Punches? He threw 10,000 + one.
Jeff Lacy lost before it even begun.
Calzaghe Calzaghe he's so great..
All you fans still under appreciate.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#37 Henry Armstrong
*










Henry Armstrong
Little Titan with perpetual motion.
Boxing's whirlwind raw emotion.
Little Titan who conquered all.
No matter the challenge, he answered every call.
Little Titan he knew no retreat.
Fast hands combined with a slow heart beat.
Little Titan knew no fear.
For his generation truly without peer.


----------



## Trash Bags

margarito? sturm? u said sturm has an "utterly granite chin." an old and faded castilljo knocked him out. just how is his chin granite? your list is weird.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Trash Bags said:


> margarito? sturm? u said sturm has an "utterly granite chin." an old and faded castilljo knocked him out. just how is his chin granite? your list is weird.


Yes.. let's just ignore all the poems and great fighters on this list and nit pick the fighters you think is not great but have no evidence of them not being great.

Felix Sturm is ranked 7th on RING MAGAZINE's top Middleweights of ALL TIMES.

Who do I trust?
ATG,Multi-Billionaire,Drug Lord, Sexual Bomb Oscar De La Hoya or online posters?
I'll take Oscar thank you.


----------



## Trash Bags

FelixTrinidad said:


> Yes.. let's just ignore all the poems and great fighters on this list and nit pick the fighters you think is not great but have no evidence of them not being great.
> 
> Felix Sturm is ranked 7th on RING MAGAZINE's top Middleweights of ALL TIMES.
> 
> Who do I trust?
> ATG,Multi-Billionaire,Drug Lord, Sexual Bomb Oscar De La Hoya or online posters?
> I'll take Oscar thank you.


im not saying u should trust me. watch the fight and judge for yourself.


----------



## Trash Bags

FelixTrinidad said:


> Yes.. let's just ignore all the poems and great fighters on this list and nit pick the fighters you think is not great but have no evidence of them not being great.
> 
> Felix Sturm is ranked 7th on RING MAGAZINE's top Middleweights of ALL TIMES.
> 
> Who do I trust?
> ATG,Multi-Billionaire,Drug Lord, Sexual Bomb Oscar De La Hoya or online posters?
> I'll take Oscar thank you.


there is actual evidence of him not having an "utterly granite chin." i didnt just make that shit up.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#36 #35
Chris Eubank and Nigel Benn*










Their names are as linked to each other as Louis/Schmeling, Barrera/Morales,and Ali/Frazier. They both had numerous big wins between them.Taking the scalps of Watson,Malinga,McClellan,DeWitt,and Barkley were no small feats. But their legacy is defined by their brutal wars against each other and the compelling hatred that fueled those wars.

Here is a great article that give readers insight into that very hatred.
http://talksport.com/boxing/dark-si...iest-feud-between-benn-and-eubank-13100362628


----------



## Vic

Yeah, Armstrong is number 37, ffs!


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#34 #33
Max Schmeling and Joe Louis*










Never has two heavyweights been so entwined together in rankings and in history as Joe and Max. Their skills as inseparable as their lives. Joe Louis was the Black American and Max was the White German who was used as a political figurehead by Adolf 'HitMan' Hitler. Schmeling was a true student of the game, an ardent scholar of pugilism and the sheer micro mechanics needed to succeed at the highest level. Joe was flash and talent reincarnated in the ring. What Max achieved and mastered through focus and work, Joe simply mastered through natural genius. Perhaps it was because of this natural genius that Joe Louis was dominated in their first encounter. Out boxed, out fought, out worked, and eventually stopped. Schemling put together one of the greatest performances in the history of our sport.

Louis's lost had a massive effect on African-Americans and they were devastated beyond belief. It also had a darker undertone in that Nazi Germany prevailed while 'Freedom and democracy' did not. What that let do was a very motivated Joe Louis who in the rematch delivered a series of combinations and punches which would have put most Heavyweights to sleep. As Schmeling went down amist a barrage of body shots and head shots.. it seem as if the entire world roared for freedom re achieved.

Who was the greater fighter? I personally felt that it was Max Schmeling. Schmeling delivered a sustained beating prior to the knock out in their 1st fight. Schmeling outboxed and completely destroyed Joe Louis,while Louis in the 2nd fight simply blew Schmeling out. We got to see the best of both men and to my eyes.. Schmeling's prolonged dominance outweigh Louis's one round magic. I had to put Louis ahead because the rest of his resume outshines Schmeling's. Both were great fighters and both will forever be remembered as two sides of the same coin.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#32 Mike Tyson(2nd Edition)*








Mike Tyson(2nd Edition version Tillman to Ruddock) reappears on the list with another version of himself. This time at #32 .
This edition of Tyson was a much more defined version as compared to the wild Berbick-Spinks child that graced this list earlier. No longer a wild animal, Tyson became an ultra smooth offensive to defensive technician who managed to integrate both in a sublime showing of skills and grace. He destroyed Tillman, vanquished Stewart and took down one of the greatest punchers in pugilism history in Ruddock.

Tyson still at times waste energy with his seemingly meaningless head movement but is now becoming more and more of a complete fighter as he applies pressure without being overredugeonactive in terms of his raw symmetry of trigonometry side movement in the vacuum of the ring. It really is too bad how he wasted what could have been his true prime in prison. What might we have seen? We will never know. What we do know is, this 2nd Edition of Iron Mike was superior to the 1st and one of the greatest fighters to grace the ring.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#31 Aaron Pryor*









Here is the truth, I must confess.
I never liked Aaron, I loved the rest.
He was part of those fab four years.
But I always felt like he was behind his peers.
Never thought that he was great.
Always thought of him as second rate.
Until the day I decided to go back.
Watch a few more fights fill up the knowledge I lack.
What I saw made my eyes open in wonder.
Aaron was lightning, fire,whirlwind and thunder.
I guess he'll never be ranked above Ray.
Still finish 2nd to Tommy on his best Day.
Yet his skills so impossible for me to deny.
Haven't been this captivated since Catcher in the Rye.
Sugar was fantastic yet even Ray in his Prime
Would have had some trouble catching Hawk Time.


----------



## pipe wrenched

Overredugeonactive? :!:


----------



## the cobra

FelixTrinidad said:


> Yet his skills so impossible for me to deny.
> Haven't been this captivated since Catcher in the Rye.


:lol:


----------



## JMP

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#32 Mike Tyson(2nd Edition)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike Tyson(2nd Edition version Tillman to Ruddock) reappears on the list with another version of himself. This time at #32 .
> This edition of Tyson was a much more defined version as compared to the wild Berbick-Spinks child that graced this list earlier. No longer a wild animal, *Tyson became an ultra smooth offensive to defensive technician who managed to integrate both in a sublime showing of skills and grace.* He destroyed Tillman, vanquished Stewart and took down one of the greatest punchers in pugilism history in Ruddock.
> 
> Tyson still at times waste energy with his seemingly meaningless head movement but is now becoming more and more of a complete fighter as he applies pressure without being overredugeonactive in terms of his raw symmetry of trigonometry side movement in the vacuum of the ring. It really is too bad how he wasted what could have been his true prime in prison. What might we have seen? We will never know. What we do know is, this 2nd Edition of Iron Mike was superior to the 1st and one of the greatest fighters to grace the ring.


:happy


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#30 Sonny Liston*










Do not condemn what you don't understand.
Fear,lack of solace, blood on my hand.
Am I sick? A thug with skillful fists?
Dark images of bleeding wrists.
Every day is pain but still defend titles with ease. 
Shivering in summer despite the warm breeze.
I'm fine with being called a gangster,scum, all the things you hate.
Just remember to also call me an All time Great.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#29 David Tua*









One of the colossal punchers in Boxing History, David Tua knocks his way into the top 30 with an emphatic bang.
Stocky and build like a Panzer Tank.. Tua was every Heavyweight's worst nightmare in that he could absorb what you gave but not vice versa.Ruiz tried to trade with Tua and was promptly slaughtered. Wilson and Izon soon followed. Oleg Maskaev(who stopped Vitali Klitschko in the Amateurs) attempted to outbox the Iron Bull but ended up gored and bloodied. Nate Tubbs who stopped Corrie Sanders who than went on to dominate Wladimir Klitschko.......was also a victim of Tua's power. Heavyweight Champion Michael Moorer fell victim in a similar fashion as Ruiz's,adding to David's impressive resume.

What made David special and unique from other big punchers is that he wasn't really a pressure fighter perse as he was more of a hunting cat who patiently stalks you until the final rush. A Somoan Leopard high up in the trees,looking down at you with feral eyes and a mouth full of teeth, when Tua strikes .. he rarely misses.For those of you who still doubt.. take a look at these two videos and judge for yourself just how great Tua really was.


----------



## Leftsmash

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#29 David Tua*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the colossal punchers in Boxing History, David Tua knocks his way into the top 30 with an emphatic bang.
> Stocky and build like a Panzer Tank.. Tua was every Heavyweight's worst nightmare in that he could absorb what you gave but not vice versa.Ruiz tried to trade with Tua and was promptly slaughtered. Wilson and Izon soon followed. Oleg Maskaev(who stopped Vitali Klitschko in the Amateurs) attempted to outbox the Iron Bull but ended up gored and bloodied. Nate Tubbs who stopped Corrie Sanders who than went on to dominate Wladimir Klitschko.......was also a victim of Tua's power. Heavyweight Champion Michael Moorer fell victim in a similar fashion as Ruiz's,adding to David's impressive resume.
> 
> What made David special and unique from other big punchers is that he wasn't really a pressure fighter perse as he was more of a hunting cat who patiently stalks you until the final rush. A Somoan Leopard high up in the trees,looking down at you with feral eyes and a mouth full of teeth, when Tua strikes .. he rarely misses.For those of you who still doubt.. take a look at these two videos and judge for yourself just how great Tua really was.


:happy


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#28 Guillermo Rigondeaux*









How do I justify a seemingly unjustifiable entry on a otherwise impeccable list? My eye test and my gut feelings contribute to Rigondeaux being so high up among a elite gathering of great pugilists. I have watched every single Rigondeaux fight twenty times. I have memorized his every facet of brilliance, his nano second movements, his twitch and blinks, his trap settings and his counters. I have imprinted him into my conscience and rarely have I seen such magnificent amagreatfantasticism. 
What the casual sportswriter call boring, I call electrifying. What they call running, I call fighting off the back foot. What they call crowd displeasing, I call CROWD PLEASING. I don't expect the people to embrace Rigondeaux like I have, I don't expect these so called sickening 'boxing fans' to appreciate Rigondeaux like I do.

Maybe the casuals are blind to the Mike Tyson like aura Rigo currently possesses. Maybe their eyes just aren't trained to see the savagery Duran like pressure he put forth. Maybe their puny intelligence refuse to admit Rigo's cautious boxing is actually slugging at the highest level. Maybe they just hate dwarfs. Or maybe they just can't admit to the fact we got a modern fighter so good .... he has become more than good. He has become great.


----------



## Hands of Iron

Best entry yet :rofl :happy


----------



## the cobra

:lol:

A bit odd though, considering that he's _basically_ just Floyd Mayweather, and Floyd's on the list already.


----------



## Pedderrs

A bit odd though, considering he has one notable win and will probably be on the end of a knockout loss sooner rather than later.


----------



## Hands of Iron

@the cobra You bastard :lol: :yep


----------



## the cobra

Hands of Iron said:


> @*the cobra* You bastard :lol: :yep

















:smug:lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron

the cobra said:


> :smug:lol:


"They're both slick, black, throw counterpunches n stuffs"

There are a select few technical wizards here and I certainly aint one of them but Holy Fuck :rofl


----------



## Hands of Iron

Gotta admit Felix fucking killed it with the description tho :lol: Perfect photo again too


----------



## SJS20

the cobra said:


> :lol:
> 
> A bit odd though, considering that he's _basically_ just Floyd Mayweather, and Floyd's on the list already.


I was sitting here like :sad5:fire:twisted:fuckoff:bogoc:haye

Then I read the rest of the page...


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c

Pedderrs said:


> A bit odd though, considering he has one notable win and will probably be on the end of a knockout loss sooner rather than later.


Who's going to beat him?


----------



## Hands of Iron

Chacal said:


> Who's going to beat him?


Addie is just mad at me because he thinks I was genuinely shitting on Marvin Hagler so he's taking it out on James Toney and Guillermo Rigondeaux in various threads.


----------



## Hands of Iron

SJS20 said:


> I was sitting here like :sad5:fire:twisted:fuckoff:bogoc:haye
> 
> Then I read the rest of the page...


Add on whizzard :thumbsup

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...t-Ken-Hershman&p=828404&viewfull=1#post828404


----------



## tommygun711

Its premature to rate him this highly though. I expect years of dominance from him. Hes seemingly improving with every fight

I dont see anyone beating Rigo right now. Santa Cruz would have the best chance imo but he will get torched as well, If he wants some.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#27 Sam Langford*










I wasn't even going to have Langford on this list, until I read this story and started crying. This is a great story on Langford:

Enjoy.

"
By 1944, Langford was blind, all but forgotten and living in poverty in a dingy tenement in Harlem, N.Y. In January of that year, sportswriter Al Laney of the New York Herald Tribune decided to write a story about Langford, a great boxer who had seemingly vanished from the face of the earth.

The search proved futile for quite a while. Many people Laney questioned were not even aware of who Langford was. At least a dozen others but claimed that Langford was dead. Eventually Laney learned that Langford was in fact alive and residing in a building in his city on 139th St. A woman who resided in the building led Laney to a tiny, dirty bedroom at the end of a dark hallway on the third floor. There, Laney found Langford, just one month shy of his fifty-eighth birthday, sitting on the edge of his bed, listening to an old radio.

Langford had 20 cents in his pocket and was subsisting on a few dollars he received each month from a foundation for the blind. Twice a day, two young boys would come by and take him to a restaurant for breakfast and a second meal late in the afternoon. Langford told Laney that he the rest of his time sitting alone in his dark bedroom with only his radio for company.

When he'd gathered the information he needed for his story, Laney went back to the office and banged out the story on his typewriter for the paper. But he didn't stop there: He was so moved by Langford's situation that he initiated a drive with a group of New York businessmen and -women that raised $10,892 for a trust fund for Langford. In April of 1945, the money was invested in an insurance company so that Langford would receive an annuity of $49.18 a month for life.

In 1952, Langford moved back to Boston and quietly lived out the remaining years of his life in a private nursing home. He passed away on January 12, 1956, just two months before his seventieth birthday and only ten weeks after being enshrined in the Boxing Hall of Fame. At the time of his induction, Langford was the only non-world titleholder to be so honored.

Sam Langford never regretted his chosen profession and expressed no bitterness or remorse over the loss of his eyesight. He maintained a keen sense of humor and kind disposition throughout his life and always said that boxing provided him with a wealth of memories. In a statement attributed to him a few months before his death, he said, "Don't nobody need to feel sorry for old Sam. I had plenty of good times. I been all over the world. I fought maybe 600 fights, and every one was a pleasure!"


----------



## MadcapMaxie

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#27 Sam Langford*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't even going to have Langford on this list, until I read this story and started crying. This is a great story on Langford:
> 
> Enjoy.
> 
> "
> By 1944, Langford was blind, all but forgotten and living in poverty in a dingy tenement in Harlem, N.Y. In January of that year, sportswriter Al Laney of the New York Herald Tribune decided to write a story about Langford, a great boxer who had seemingly vanished from the face of the earth.
> 
> The search proved futile for quite a while. Many people Laney questioned were not even aware of who Langford was. At least a dozen others but claimed that Langford was dead. Eventually Laney learned that Langford was in fact alive and residing in a building in his city on 139th St. A woman who resided in the building led Laney to a tiny, dirty bedroom at the end of a dark hallway on the third floor. There, Laney found Langford, just one month shy of his fifty-eighth birthday, sitting on the edge of his bed, listening to an old radio.
> 
> Langford had 20 cents in his pocket and was subsisting on a few dollars he received each month from a foundation for the blind. Twice a day, two young boys would come by and take him to a restaurant for breakfast and a second meal late in the afternoon. Langford told Laney that he the rest of his time sitting alone in his dark bedroom with only his radio for company.
> 
> When he'd gathered the information he needed for his story, Laney went back to the office and banged out the story on his typewriter for the paper. But he didn't stop there: He was so moved by Langford's situation that he initiated a drive with a group of New York businessmen and -women that raised $10,892 for a trust fund for Langford. In April of 1945, the money was invested in an insurance company so that Langford would receive an annuity of $49.18 a month for life.
> 
> In 1952, Langford moved back to Boston and quietly lived out the remaining years of his life in a private nursing home. He passed away on January 12, 1956, just two months before his seventieth birthday and only ten weeks after being enshrined in the Boxing Hall of Fame. At the time of his induction, Langford was the only non-world titleholder to be so honored.
> 
> Sam Langford never regretted his chosen profession and expressed no bitterness or remorse over the loss of his eyesight. He maintained a keen sense of humor and kind disposition throughout his life and always said that boxing provided him with a wealth of memories. In a statement attributed to him a few months before his death, he said, "Don't nobody need to feel sorry for old Sam. I had plenty of good times. I been all over the world. I fought maybe 600 fights, and every one was a pleasure!"


Truth be told with his record he has a right to be the number 1 P4P GOAT. For me tho the most amazing thing about him is him as a person. Great guy, great fighter.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

MadcapMaxie said:


> Truth be told with his record he has a right to be the number 1 P4P GOAT. For me tho the most amazing thing about him is him as a person. Great guy, great fighter.


He was a damn good fighter. Damn good.

I can't put him higher than 27th, but let me tell you something. He was a damn good fighter and a damn good human being.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#26 Jack Broughton*








The finding Father of our great sport makes his mark on my list at 26. The creator of virtually every set of rules that sparked the flames for pugilism,without Broughton, this sport would not have existed.
A vicious counter puncher who was the first to fight off the backfoot as oppose to just simply retreating,Broughton destroyed all opposition with relative ease. The legendary Captain Godfrey said that 'he never seen Broughton lose' and that 'Broughton was the biggest puncher that fought during his era'. Because of Broughton's incredible success as a fighter, he was heavily funded and that enabled him to create the original rules of pugilism.

One of Broughton's most legendary fights was against the masterful defensive technician George Stevenson. In this bout Broughton proved that a Boxer/Puncher will always rule supreme over just a defensive minded fighter. He dominated from the opening bell, pressuring Stevenson and trapping him into corners, blasting away with rights and body combinations he utterly broke and demoralized the Original Whitaker in Stevenson. Stevenson was put down numerous times and was finally deemed unfit to continue. He died soon after due to the injuries Broughton inflicted upon him.

What made Broughton such a unique fighter was his ability to utilize varying styles and put them into the most efficient usage. His control of distance and punch angles was impeccable and his footwork often got him out of tricky situations that might have otherwise trapped an inferior fighter. It is a delicious treat to boxing fans everywhere as we imagine what would have happened if Jack Broughton squared off against Pernell Whitaker,Sugar Ray Robinson,Michael Spinks,Mike Tyson, or even Lennox Lewis. Since his exact size and weight class remains unknown, we can just imagine him against anybody in fantasy head to heads. How delightful!


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#25 Marvin Hagler*








For me to talk about the skills,careers, and achievements of Hagler/Leonard/Hearns will be mundane and tiresome. Everyone who knows anything about boxing knows about these 3 legends. What I want to do is talk about something unique regarding each one of these three. What I will say is personal opinion and should by no means be used as any sort of factual standing.

Marvin Hagler is the 25th greatest fighter of all times. There is no doubt about that. Marvin Hagler is also a hypocrite who blatantly ducked Spinks the same way he accused Leonard and Hearns of ducking him. The difference is that both Leonard and Hearns eventually fought him and he never took the chance against Spinks.
Hagler will often say that Hearns and Leonard are scared of him because he was high risk low reward, because they didn't dare to be great. When asked about what he thinks regarding the fact that both Leonard and Hearns were natural welterweights that needed to move up.. Hagler typically just ignore the questions or simply start mumbling and rambling about 'challenges' and 'greatness'. It's ironic that 3 of Hagler's 5 best wins all came from lightweights and welterweights when he himself never dared to be great by going against the legendary Spinks.
If a lightweight in Duran could go up against a top 3 (All Time)MW in Hagler, than a Middleweight in Hagler could very well go up against a top 3(All Time) Light Heavy Weight in Spinks. I never once doubt Marvin's resume or greatness, that is why he is #25 . I do feel like he was scared of Spinks and his ego wouldn't allow him to do what Duran/Hearns/Leonard did with him. Which was 'move up in pursue of FURTHER greatness'.


----------



## MadcapMaxie

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#25 Marvin Hagler*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For me to talk about the skills,careers, and achievements of Hagler/Leonard/Hearns will be mundane and tiresome. Everyone who knows anything about boxing knows about these 3 legends. What I want to do is talk about something unique regarding each one of these three. What I will say is personal opinion and should by no means be used as any sort of factual standing.
> 
> *Marvin Hagler is the 25th greatest fighter of all times. There is no doubt about that. Marvin Hagler is also a hypocrite who blatantly ducked Spinks the same way he accused Leonard and Hearns of ducking him. The difference is that both Leonard and Hearns eventually fought him and he never took the chance against Spinks.
> Hagler will often say that Hearns and Leonard are scared of him because he was high risk low reward, because they didn't dare to be great. When asked about what he thinks regarding the fact that both Leonard and Hearns were natural welterweights that needed to move up.. Hagler typically just ignore the questions or simply start mumbling and rambling about 'challenges' and 'greatness'. It's ironic that 3 of Hagler's 5 best wins all came from lightweights and welterweights when he himself never dared to be great by going against the legendary Spinks.
> If a lightweight in Duran could go up against a top 3 (All Time)MW in Hagler, than a Middleweight in Hagler could very well go up against a top 3(All Time) Light Heavy Weight in Spinks. I never once doubt Marvin's resume or greatness, that is why he is #25 . I do feel like he was scared of Spinks and his ego wouldn't allow him to do what Duran/Hearns/Leonard did with him. Which was 'move up in pursue of FURTHER greatness'.*


Lol stfu.


----------



## turbotime

God damn :good


----------



## tommygun711

Hagler was a small middleweight who had no business fighting at LHW.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> Hagler was a small middleweight who had no business fighting at LHW.


Right and lightweight Duran had business fighting at MW against one of the greatest MW'S of all times?
Hagler wasn't a 'small' MW.. .btw. Cut that shit out.
Just because you are 5'9 doesn't make you a small MW. Hagler was thick and very powerfully build. In fact I don't know if he could have made 154 today even with the 24 hour weight in like I originally thought... He was a legit MW. I'm not saying he was a big MW.. but he was a average sized MW.
Duran was a big lightweight and a average sized Welterweight. Duran went up TWO DIVISIONS and lost to Hagler.

Hagler should have went up TWO Divisions and at least gave Spinks a chance to JINX him the fuck out.


----------



## dyna

:deal

FelixTrinidad is the truth.
Here is my token of appreciation


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Marvin Hagler was an ATG and deserves the 25th spot on my amazing list, but to look at him as some sort of Saint is pathetic and quite frankly a bit insulting to intelligent thinkers like myself and Mcgrain.
Hagler didn't want to go up and fight Spinks because he know that there was a SERIOUS chance he could have gotten knocked the fuck out. Now does this diminish his greatness? Hell no. He is still an ATG(25th overall).. does this make him seem hypcritical when he's talking about 'challenges' and pressuring Leonard to go up and fight him? Yes it does.

Once again.. beating up on smaller but still ELITE level fighters does not make those wins any less significant.
Hopkins beat up Trinidad and De La Hoya.. Those were very good wins.(Not ATG but very good).. But if Hopkin's had retired after Taylor, he very well opened himself up for criticism. The fact that he went on to 175 and fought an array of good fighters speak volumes.

Now do I think the Hopkins of TODAY will fight someone like Spinks if Spinks was around? Of course not.
Do I think the Hopkins who fought Taylor would have went up to fight someone like Spinks? Yes.
Do I think Spinks will than knock Hopkins the fuck out? Of course.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

dyna said:


> :deal
> 
> FelixTrinidad is the truth.
> Here is my token of appreciation


:cheers

Lennox will definitely make an apparance on this list........................


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> Right and lightweight Duran had business fighting at MW against one of the greatest MW'S of all times?
> Hagler wasn't a 'small' MW.. .btw. Cut that shit out.
> Just because you are 5'9 doesn't make you a small MW. Hagler was thick and very powerfully build. In fact I don't know if he could have made 154 today even with the 24 hour weight in like I originally thought... He was a legit MW. I'm not saying he was a big MW.. but he was a average sized MW.
> Duran was a big lightweight and a average sized Welterweight. Duran went up TWO DIVISIONS and lost to Hagler.
> 
> Hagler should have went up TWO Divisions and at least gave Spinks a chance to JINX him the fuck out.


No. But Duran had no business fighting at welterweight either. It's a different mentality. The reason Duran jumped up in weight the way he did is so he could get the big money fights. Just because Duran did it doesn't mean Hagler would be OBLIGATED to do it. You can't expect Hagler to go up Hagler didn't need a fight like that in his career, nor did he need McCallum. By the time the Spinks

Hagler certainly was a small MW. He couldn't just jump to LHW and be effective up there.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> No. But Duran had no business fighting at welterweight either. It's a different mentality. The reason Duran jumped up in weight the way he did is so he could get the big money fights. Just because Duran did it doesn't mean Hagler would be OBLIGATED to do it. You can't expect Hagler to go up Hagler didn't need a fight like that in his career, nor did he need McCallum. By the time the Spinks
> 
> *Hagler certainly was a small MW.* He couldn't just jump to LHW and be effective up there.


No he wasn't. Stop saying that. He was NOT a small MW.
A SMALL fighter for his class is Chris Byrd @ HW.
I don't think you know how to judge class size properly.
Is Canelo a small 154 Pounder? Dude's only 5'7.


----------



## dyna

Nobody is obligated to jump up 1 or 2 division, but in the end it is what seperates a great fighter with the top 15 greatest.

Armstrong, Duran, Charles, Moore, Fitzsimmons, Langford, Robinson, Greb these men defied size and therefore should be rewarded for their courage to go up and defy the odds.
Hagler as great as a counterpuncher he was will never be like these men.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> No he wasn't. Stop saying that. He was NOT a small MW.
> A SMALL fighter for his class is Chris Byrd @ HW.
> *I don't think you know how to judge class size properly.*
> Is Canelo a small 154 Pounder? Dude's only 5'7.


I don't think you know how to rate fighters properly.



dyna said:


> Nobody is obligated to jump up 1 or 2 division, but in the end it is what seperates a great fighter with the top 15 greatest.
> 
> Armstrong, Duran, Charles, Moore, Fitzsimmons, Langford, Robinson, Greb these men defied size and therefore should be rewarded for their courage to go up and defy the odds.
> Hagler as great as a counterpuncher he was will never be like these men.


If he moved up to fight Spinks and then possibly get sparked out then it wouldn't make a difference anyway.

At that stage of his career his 'greatness" was the last thing he had in mind.


----------



## dyna

Also to be fair to Hagler, M.Spinks would stylistically be a total disaster for Marvin.


----------



## Leftsmash

I can't wait for Ruiz's entry.


----------



## Leftsmash

tommygun711 said:


> No. But Duran* had no business fighting at welterweight either*. It's a different mentality. The reason Duran jumped up in weight the way he did is so he could get the big money fights. Just because Duran did it doesn't mean Hagler would be OBLIGATED to do it. You can't expect Hagler to go up Hagler didn't need a fight like that in his career, nor did he need McCallum. By the time the Spinks
> 
> Hagler certainly was a small MW. He couldn't just jump to LHW and be effective up there.


:whaaaat

He may have been out of his prime weight where he was the most effective but by the time he was at welter he was decently sized and fit into the weight rather well and of course carried his power reasonably well against his opponents, not the case of someone who went into a weightclass they had no business at, i.e Oscar at MW.


----------



## turbotime

dyna said:


> Nobody is obligated to jump up 1 or 2 division, but in the end it is what seperates a great fighter with the top 15 greatest.
> 
> Armstrong, Duran, Charles, Moore, Fitzsimmons, Langford, Robinson, Greb these men defied size and therefore should be rewarded for their courage to go up and defy the odds.
> Hagler as great as a counterpuncher he was will never be like these men.


Agreed. Hagler really should've tried it at least once or twice. Why not? Like someone said what did he have to lose? Its why he isn't as great as some other fab 4 members


----------



## Hands of Iron

Hagler dudes butthurt again. :rofl


----------



## FloydPatterson

Hands of Iron said:


> Hagler dudes butthurt again. :rofl


----------



## turbotime

Hands of Iron said:


> Hagler dudes butthurt again. :rofl


:yep


----------



## Hands of Iron

turbotime said:


> :yep


http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...ttle-girl-quot&p=833209&viewfull=1#post833209

:lol: 

Should've just used Pea from the beginning. Would be really unfair and less amusing though.


----------



## turbotime

Hands of Iron said:


> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...ttle-girl-quot&p=833209&viewfull=1#post833209
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Should've just used Pea from the beginning. Would be really unfair and less amusing though.


:rofl Few guys are beyond ridicule. Hagler for some reason, is one of them.


----------



## tommygun711

as far as Hagler and Spinks are concerned, nah Hagler would look ridiculous at LHW. he was most comfortable dominating everyone at MW so why take a fight with a puncher like Spinks that could potentially spark him out? Would do nothing for Marvin and imo at his state of his career he wouldn't look himself at LHW.



Leftsmash said:


> :whaaaat
> 
> He may have been out of his prime weight where he was the most effective but by the time he was at welter he was decently sized and fit into the weight rather well and of course carried his power reasonably well against his opponents, not the case of someone who went into a weightclass they had no business at, i.e Oscar at MW.


I simply think he was more of an animal at lightweight rather than Welterweight. Hit harder, was just ALOT more menacing, etc. imo he's overrated at MW & welterweight.


----------



## Hands of Iron

Leonard and Palomino are probably his two greatest performances for me, both at 147. DeJesus III is up there though.


----------



## turbotime

tommygun711 said:


> as far as Hagler and Spinks are concerned, nah Hagler would look ridiculous at LHW. he was most comfortable dominating everyone at MW so why take a fight with a puncher like Spinks that could potentially spark him out? *Would do nothing for Marvin *and imo at his state of his career he wouldn't look himself at LHW.


Seriously?


----------



## Hands of Iron

turbotime said:


> :rofl Few guys are beyond ridicule. Hagler for some reason, is one of them.


Pulled it off with Toney. Fucking James Toney :rofl :smug

Loading up telegraphed counters on me, like I give a fuck.


----------



## Hands of Iron

turbotime said:


> Seriously?


He's always serious. Look at how the Hagler entry was treated on this thread... Gets rated #25 , Hagler fans still whine. :lol:


----------



## dyna

Hands of Iron said:


> He's always serious. Look at how the Hagler entry was treated on this thread... Gets rated #25 , Hagler fans still whine. :lol:


McGrain got Hagler at 34 with Monzon, Roy Jones, and Whitaker ahead of him.
I wonder how the Haglards feel about that.
(Shame he doesn't have Hearns ahead of Hagler too :sad5)

:lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron

dyna said:


> McGrain got Hagler at 34 with Monzon, Roy Jones, and Whitaker ahead of him.
> I wonder how the Haglards feel about that.
> (Shame he doesn't have Hearns ahead of Hagler too :sad5)
> 
> :lol:


:lol: :conf

All of this stuff is completely meaningless to me.


----------



## Leftsmash

People are still taking this thread and FelixTrinidad of all people too serious :lol:


----------



## tommygun711

turbotime said:


> Seriously?


If he lost, then what would it do for him? Honestly, Marvin would look like shit at 175. I would give him little to no chance against Spinks. He would be even slower, and even more of a slugger than he was in the Leonard fight.

He would probably be bitter about it and say he should've stayed at 160.
@Hands of Iron i'm not really whining I'm saying that it's kind of dumb to say that Marvin ducked Spinks like it's a black eye on his career or something.


----------



## Leftsmash

tommygun711 said:


> If he lost, then what would it do for him? Honestly, Marvin would look like shit at 175. I would give him little to no chance against Spinks. He would be even slower, and even more of a slugger than he was in the Leonard fight.
> 
> He would probably be bitter about it and say he should've stayed at 160.
> 
> @Hands of Iron i'm not really whining I'm saying that it's kind of dumb to say that Marvin ducked Spinks like it's a black eye on his career or something.


:lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron

I hope Rigo doesn't change his style for anybody.


----------



## Hands of Iron

Leftsmash said:


> People are still taking this thread and FelixTrinidad of all people too serious :lol:


People take themselves and their opinions on boxing too serious.


----------



## MadcapMaxie

FelixTrinidad said:


> No he wasn't. Stop saying that. He was NOT a small MW.
> A SMALL fighter for his class is Chris Byrd @ HW.
> I don't think you know how to judge class size properly.
> Is Canelo a small 154 Pounder? Dude's only 5'7.


Hagler never dehydrated nor took diuretics and he could still get as low as 156 without much problem. In today's day and age 154 wouldn't have been a problem for him. Once he secured the MW title he said he was going to be around for a long time he had no interest in other weight classes.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#24 Nicolino Locche*










Floyd Mayweather before Floyd Mayweather even existed, Nicolino defines the very essence of slickness. Perhaps the greatest defensive technician to ever box, Locche's mastery of the art made him the oil butter shea. One of the most underrated fighters in the history of pugilism, Locche was unbelievably gifted. His ability to make opponents miss and look foolish is eye dazzling. I am very rarely impressed by defensive wizards, Locche is the exception. I am not only impressed but I am also a fan. For once, I am willing to watch defensive poetry in motion without being bored. Locche is what Rigo wishes he could become.
If Sergio Martinez cummed in Pernell Whitaker's vagina, the result would be Nicolino Locche.


----------



## Lester1583

turbotime said:


> :rofl Few guys are beyond ridicule. Hagler for some reason, is one of them.


Hagler is the manliest man in boxing - bald, chiseled, menacing, unbreakable.

Leonard is a bitch/runner.
Duran is a quitter.
Hearns is glass.
Ali is overrated.
Greb is outdated.
Oscar is gay.
Jones is a ducker
Mayweather is not Whitaker
Whitaker is not Mayweather

Hagler never lost - all of his losses were robberies.

Hagler Hagler Hagler Hagler Hagler


----------



## Hands of Iron

turbotime said:


> Agreed. Hagler really should've tried it at least once or twice. Why not? Like someone said what did he have to lose? Its why he isn't as great as some other fab 4 members


Rigo ain't exactly keen on moving up either, which I know is one of your little issues. You love the weight jumpers, and I do as well. At this point, holding firm on that just isn't doing anything to help himself. Remember his stance on 126 with our boy Abbie before he got starched? :lol: :-( I thought it was kind of dumb. Not that the fight was ever on the table or anything.

On that, I'm worried he gets KO'ed again.


----------



## Hands of Iron

Lester1583 said:


> Hagler is the manliest man in boxing - bald, chiseled, menacing, unbreakable.
> 
> Leonard is a bitch/runner.
> Duran is a quitter.
> Hearns is glass.
> Ali is overrated.
> Greb is outdated.
> Oscar is gay.
> Jones is a ducker
> Mayweather is not Whitaker
> Whitaker is not Mayweather
> 
> Hagler never lost - all of his losses were robberies.
> 
> Hagler Hagler Hagler Hagler Hagler


It's actually amazing how much this ISN'T off base. I can respect the qualities you mentioned though. :lol:


----------



## Theron

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#24 Nicolino Locche*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Floyd Mayweather before Floyd Mayweather even existed, Nicolino defines the very essence of slickness. Perhaps the greatest defensive technician to ever box, Locche's mastery of the art made him the oil butter shea. One of the most underrated fighters in the history of pugilism, Locche was unbelievably gifted. His ability to make opponents miss and look foolish is eye dazzling. I am very rarely impressed by defensive wizards, Locche is the exception. I am not only impressed but I am also a fan. For once, I am willing to watch defensive poetry in motion without being bored. Locche is what Rigo wishes he could become.
> *If Sergio Martinez cummed in Pernell Whitaker's vagina, the result would be Nicolino Locche.*


:rofl


----------



## Theron

FelixTrinidad said:


> Right and lightweight Duran had business fighting at MW against one of the greatest MW'S of all times?
> Hagler wasn't a 'small' MW.. .btw. Cut that shit out.
> Just because you are 5'9 doesn't make you a small MW. Hagler was thick and very powerfully build. In fact I don't know if he could have made 154 today even with the 24 hour weight in like I originally thought... He was a legit MW. I'm not saying he was a big MW.. but he was a average sized MW.
> Duran was a big lightweight and a average sized Welterweight. Duran went up TWO DIVISIONS and lost to Hagler.
> 
> Hagler should have went up TWO Divisions and at least gave Spinks a chance to JINX him the fuck out.


He was a smaller middleweight, full of muscle and sometime still coming in under the middleweight limit.
Going up to the lightheavies for Hagler and Duran going up to welter and middle isn't exactly the same,
Hagler was about as big as he was gonna get while Duran was a skinny lightweight and looked very
natural at welterweight and middleweight wasn't a gigantic stretch for him either. Hagler didn't have amazing 
power at middle and wasn't very tall there either, so going up to lightheavy is just stupid where he gives up
height, weight, reach, power, i mean really everything and also going against Spinks.. Hes a top 3 lightheavy ATG
c'mon, just so you can see him knocked out, which is the real reason your saying this anyway.


----------



## turbotime

Hands of Iron said:


> Rigo ain't exactly keen on moving up either, which I know *is one of your little issues*. You love the weight jumpers, and I do as well. At this point, holding firm on that just isn't doing anything to help himself. Remember his stance on 126 with our boy Abbie before he got starched? :lol: :-( I thought it was kind of dumb. Not that the fight was ever on the table or anything.
> 
> On that, I'm worried he gets KO'ed again.


:lol: Snide :nono

Mares started lower than Rigo did and has a better resume than Rigo does. Rigo has a long way to go still IMO


----------



## turbotime

tommygun711 said:


> If he lost, then what would it do for him? Honestly, Marvin would look like shit at 175. I would give him little to no chance against Spinks. He would be even slower, and even more of a slugger than he was in the Leonard fight.
> 
> He would probably be bitter about it and say he should've stayed at 160.
> 
> @Hands of Iron i'm not really whining I'm saying that it's kind of dumb to say that Marvin ducked Spinks like it's a black eye on his career or something.


He doesn't have to weigh in at the full 175 lb limit so long as Spinks isn't over.


----------



## dyna

SRR came in at 157 to get the lhw crown.
Atleast he tried, even if it was Maxim he fought.

Marvin Hagler full of muscle often weighed in at 157 too without diuretics, beet juice and dehydration.
He could have fought at welter if he was in todays boxing environment.

Now that I've finally seen the truth I can't take him serious as a mw anymore so I'm not going to rate him at mw anymore.
Right now he's my nr.10 all time welterweight between Jimmy Mclarlin and Jack Britton, but since he was so small it does enhance his greatness.
Imo he makes a case for being the nr 24 p4p all time fighter.

:lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron

turbotime said:


> :lol: Snide :nono
> 
> Mares started lower than Rigo did and has a better resume than Rigo does. Rigo has a long way to go still IMO


Catchweights and Rehydro Clauses. :deal


----------



## RDJ

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#91 Andrew Golota*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone once told me that God created Germans so the Poles would not conquer Europe... I said if Poland had just 1000 Golotas.. World War Two would have ended in 1941.......... 6'4 and 240 pounds.. Golota was the very definition of a super heavyweight with skills. Hands like a welter and moving with the grace of a light weight.. Golota skates around the ring.. doing figure 8's of beautifully interwoven boxing poetry.
> 
> Dominating the likes of Marion Wilson and Dwyane Hall.. Golota roared his way to the top of the Heavyweight Contender list.. He twice defeated ATG Riddick Bowe and was the first Pole to reach the very top of the World.. He had it all. Palaces, tanks,cars,a beautiful wife, the worship of a Nation, and skills to make others die for. His run was ended by British God Lennox Lewis and he was left forever a shell of his once great self. History do not forget what he HAS done prior to Lewis though and history never will.
> My Uncle once told me that the true uniqueness of Golota was his creativity. Instead of throwing out a lone jab.. he throws out two. Instead of punching with a straight right and following it up with a left hook.. *he punches with a straight right and hit you in the Penis*. With Golota you just never know what is going to happen next and that is your downfall. He preys upon the mentally weak and with his mixture of physical/emotional/mental attacks. you can not help but fold underneath the pressure.
> As great as he is.. the question remain what could have been? If only he did a few things different......... Poland's finest and by far the most worthy of Polish warriors. Andrew 'G' Golota.


:lol::lol::lol:

Great thread, some absolute gems in here.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#23 Sugar Ray Robinson
*









It is very rare that a boxing writer have to explain to the ignorant masses on why a boxer is ranked too low. In most cases it is why a boxer is ranked too high. I know without a shred of doubt the duty falls upon my weary shoulders in giving a reasonable explanation on the placement of Robinson at 23 instead of at 1 or 2.

First off let me start off by saying Robinson is one of the greatest fighters of all times. There is a reason he is at number 23 among the hundreds of thousands of boxers who have taken up the art of pugilism. He is a masterful offensive wrecking machine, a granite chinned warrior with brutal power in both hands, a dazzling boxer when he wanted to be and have some of the sweetest oh so sweet punching combinations caught on film. He is number 23, he is not number 1 or even top 10.
Robinson for all his brilliance had a total of 19 losses in 192 fights. Even if you shrink that math down by the activity of modern standards it does not scream out true top 10 greatness.

You cut that 192 in half. That's 96 you divide that by 2 that's 43.. Which is around the standards for modern fighters in terms of fights.(43-55ish)
You divide 19 by half that's around 9. You divide 9 in half.. that's around 4-5. So Robinson's modern standards record is 43-5. He's obviously faced tougher competition than Mayweather and Calzaghe so there was no way he'll be undefeated. But was Robinson's competition really that much better than Pacquaio's? Or Hopkins? (Fighters who suffered around the same number of losses deflated by modern value) In fact Pacquaio's stunning 55-5 record might actually look more impressive considering that one of those losses was a outright robbery. In reality Pacquaio is 56-4... having beaten a slew of top fighters and taking on all challenges.(Just like Robinson) I have Pacquaio at #76 , Robinson's overall brilliance and resume have him at number 23 due to his stronger resume, longevity, and better skillset upon eye viewing. It is impossible though to place Robinson any higher.

Another thing to take into account is the fact that Robinson was a massive Welterweight. Not only because of his 5'10-5'11 height but in terms of his overall bulk and shoulder width. In truth, Robinson was a MiddleWeight. He managed to bullied the smaller welters due to his work horse like running outside the ring which enabled him to make the 147 weight class for much longer than was normal. Another thing is weight rules was nowhere near as enforced during that bygone era as it is today. It was perfectly reasonable to assume Robinson came in to 147 fights as a 160 fighter.
Robinson's true measure of greatness came at 160(his natural weightclass) and the one time he stepped up he was viciously beaten at light heavy weight. This indicate that Robinson's 'multi-weight' abilities might have been a bit inflated by history. I am by no means saying Robinson isn't great. Robinson is great. So great he have made number 23 on my list. I am simply saying he is NO GREATER than 23. And there is no shame in that.


----------



## Felix

The top 22 ought to be interesting.


----------



## Pedderrs

Has Lomachenko already been?


----------



## dyna

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#23 Sugar Ray Robinson
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is very rare that a boxing writer have to explain to the ignorant masses on why a boxer is ranked too low. In most cases it is why a boxer is ranked too high. I know without a shred of doubt the duty falls upon my weary shoulders in giving a reasonable explanation on the placement of Robinson at 23 instead of at 1 or 2.
> 
> First off let me start off by saying Robinson is one of the greatest fighters of all times. There is a reason he is at number 23 among the hundreds of thousands of boxers who have taken up the art of pugilism. He is a masterful offensive wrecking machine, a granite chinned warrior with brutal power in both hands, a dazzling boxer when he wanted to be and have some of the sweetest oh so sweet punching combinations caught on film. He is number 23, he is not number 1 or even top 10.
> Robinson for all his brilliance had a total of 19 losses in 192 fights. Even if you shrink that math down by the activity of modern standards it does not scream out true top 10 greatness.
> 
> You cut that 192 in half. That's 96 you divide that by 2 that's 43.. Which is around the standards for modern fighters in terms of fights.(43-55ish)
> You divide 19 by half that's around 9. You divide 9 in half.. that's around 4-5. So Robinson's modern standards record is 43-5. He's obviously faced tougher competition than Mayweather and Calzaghe so there was no way he'll be undefeated. But was Robinson's competition really that much better than Pacquaio's? Or Hopkins? (Fighters who suffered around the same number of losses deflated by modern value) In fact Pacquaio's stunning 55-5 record might actually look more impressive considering that one of those losses was a outright robbery. In reality Pacquaio is 56-4... having beaten a slew of top fighters and taking on all challenges.(Just like Robinson) I have Pacquaio at #76 , Robinson's overall brilliance and resume have him at number 23 due to his stronger resume, longevity, and better skillset upon eye viewing. It is impossible though to place Robinson any higher.
> 
> Another thing to take into account is the fact that Robinson was a massive Welterweight. Not only because of his 5'10-5'11 height but in terms of his overall bulk and shoulder width. In truth, Robinson was a MiddleWeight. He managed to bullied the smaller welters due to his work horse like running outside the ring which enabled him to make the 147 weight class for much longer than was normal. Another thing is weight rules was nowhere near as enforced during that bygone era as it is today. It was perfectly reasonable to assume Robinson came in to 147 fights as a 160 fighter.
> * Robinson's true measure of greatness came at 160(his natural weightclass) and the one time he stepped up he was viciously beaten at light heavy weight. *This indicate that Robinson's 'multi-weight' abilities might have been a bit inflated by history. I am by no means saying Robinson isn't great. Robinson is great. So great he have made number 23 on my list. I am simply saying he is NO GREATER than 23. And there is no shame in that.


I got a giant smirk the moment I read this. :cheers


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> But was Robinson's competition really that much better than Pacquaio's? Or Hopkins?


Uh, yes it was :rofl


----------



## turbotime

tommygun711 said:


> Uh, yes it was :rofl


Robinson never fought anyone as good as Roy Jones jr.


----------



## tommygun711

turbotime said:


> Robinson never fought anyone as good as Roy Jones jr.


and RJJ never fought anyone as good as SRR. Good point Turbo! :happy


----------



## turbotime

tommygun711 said:


> and RJJ never fought anyone as good as SRR. Good point Turbo! :happy


Roy can't fight himself.


----------



## tommygun711

turbotime said:


> Roy can't fight himself.


:lol:


----------



## Chatty

turbotime said:


> Roy can't fight himself.


Why not? Tyson Fury managed to fit a bout with himself into the middle of another fight he was having.


----------



## Pedderrs

Chatty said:


> Why not? Tyson Fury managed to fit a bout with himself into the middle of another fight he was having.


Fighting one guy at once isn't really Tyson's style. I remember him calling out Tony Bellew, offering to fight him in-between rounds.


----------



## Hands of Iron

tommygun711 said:


> and RJJ never fought anyone as good as SRR. Good point Turbo! :happy





turbotime said:


> Roy can't fight himself.


He fought someone even better. :yep


----------



## Pedderrs

Hands of Iron said:


> He fought someone even better. :yep


I disagree with you, Hands of Toney.
@The Undefeated Gaul is definitely trollin' hard when it comes to Lomachenko. He's not f'real.


----------



## Lunny

FelixTrinidad said:


> Gary Mason holds a Knock out % of 34 KO/37 Wins.


That's not a percentage you bellend.


----------



## tommygun711

Hands of Iron said:


> He fought someone even better. :yep


lol. gud 1 m8. I didn't know Ruiz was better than SRR.


----------



## Hands of Iron

tommygun711 said:


> and RJJ never fought anyone as good as SRR. Good point Turbo! :happy





tommygun711 said:


> lol. gud 1 m8. I didn't know Ruiz was better than SRR.


:lol:

It actually crossed my mind to include Ruiz somehow, but my brain is mush right now.
@Pedderrs He forreal.


----------



## dyna

Didn't club fighter Graziano manage to drop SRR?
Shame Graziano never fought in our era but we had Ricardo Mayorga and Mayorga got destroyed by Oscar Dela Hoya and Oscar didn't get dropped by a club fighter despite having ring rust and coming off a damaging loss so it can be argued that Oscar was better than SRR.
Oscar (SRR his superior) in turn got stopped by a very light Hopkins so that means Hopkins is atleast better than SRR.
Roy Jones beat Hopkins with just his left. (So Roy would kill SRR)


----------



## turbotime

Hands of Iron said:


> He fought someone even better. :yep


:yep


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Pedderrs said:


> Has Lomachenko already been?


Lomachenko got a glass chin. I'm 99% sure he's hiding a fragile mandible. It's actually insulting to me and my hard work to even discuss Lomachenko in a thread regarding the 100 greatest fighters of all times.

Lomachenko's ceiling is basically a poor man's Morales.


----------



## Kid Generic Alias

turbotime said:


> Agreed. Hagler really should've tried it at least once or twice. Why not?


Because mental midgets don't take risks.


----------



## MadcapMaxie

I know this is a piss take but the only thing Robinson was viciously beaten by at Light Heavy was the heat. If Maxim wasn't so durable he'd have been KO'd 10 times over the amount of punches he took.


----------



## MadcapMaxie

Kid Generic Alias said:


> Because mental midgets don't take risks.


You're a poor troll.


----------



## turbotime

Kid Generic Alias said:


> Because mental midgets don't take risks.


:smug


----------



## Kid Generic Alias

MadcapMaxie said:


> You're a poor troll.


*adds to own personal list of things to not give a fuck about.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#22 Mike Tyson 3rd Edition*










(1995-1997)
Tyson makes yet another appearance on this list with the third variation of himself. 95-97 Mike was a entirely different fighter from Spinks Mike or Ruddock Mike. What was once a unique athlete who relied on his speed and his natural gifts to win fights has become an unstoppable tank. A force of nature. He was once lightning and laser, now he is thunder and nuke. Tyson got bigger, Tyson got meaner, Tyson got more vicious, and yes Tyson got better.

I will like to point out that despite legions of fans falsely claiming 80's Mike was the best Mike, most of these posters often use pictures of Mid 90's and late 90's Mike when describing his viciousness. Case in point:

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...red-of-Maidana&p=815073&viewfull=1#post815073

BballChump11(a great poster) used a picture of mid 90's Mike to portray an image of terror.

Hands of Iron(one of Tyson's biggest fans and another great poster) himself was impressed with mid 90's Mike by saying

*"Jesus Mike had some guns on him post-prison".*

It's interesting how Hands of Iron will show his awe and admiration of Tyson POST PRISON. It's because he secretly know that the older Mike got, the stronger Mike got. Just like fine wine.

Fists of Fury(yet another great poster) will often use pictures of Mike in his avatars .. yet most of these pictures were pictures of 90's Mike.

I feel like most of these Tyson fans subconsciousness know that Mid 90's Mike was a great fighter but their inner fan boyism refuse to allow them to admit this because of course Tyson went on to lose against Holyfield..

Case in point 2:

Mike Tyson destroyed his four opponents leading up to Holyfield with a average of 2.0 rounds per fighter. 
Tyson during his supposed true prime (86-88) took an average of 5.0 Rounds per fighter.

Tyson's opponents Post-Prison was terrified of him in a way that nobody's been since Spinks. He was a ravaging killer, a destroyer of minds, a beast, a monster, and he had no fear. The gun shy Choir Boy who struggled against Douglas was long gone, buried beneath a fiery dragon who devoured any that stood in his way.

Tyson's four opponents Post-Prison leading up to the Holyfield fights had a combined record of 129-8. Among them was World Champion Frank Bruno,heavy slugger Peter Mcneeley,Slickster Bruce Sheldon, and the ferocious Buster Mathis Jr. Tyson demolished them all. When I was growing up, I always thought of Tyson as overrated. Than as I got older I realized that he was actually underrated. Now as a wise 21 year old Boxing Historian I realized that not only is Tyson one of the greatest fighters of all times(All four variations) His true prime has also been misunderstood. I intent to fix that with this list. Or at least give it an effort worthy of Iron Mike.


----------



## Liu Kang

Liu Kang acknowledges these great warriors of Earth Realm however, Liu Kang is Champion of Earth Realm. Liu Kang is the greatest.


----------



## jaymon112

Hands of Iron said:


> He fought someone even better. :yep


----------



## FelixTrinidad

jaymon112 said:


>


Fact:
Joe Calzaghe is higher on the ATG List than Roy Jones Jr.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#21 Tommy Hearns*









Standing across the Hands of Stone.
Kronk's finest, Detroit's very own.
He looked at fearsome Duran and felt no fear.
Tonight he was the wolf and Manos was the deer.
Deadly Roberto with those glaring eyes.
Hitman's right hand and instant demise.
So full of rage and so full of anger.
Against Tommy's power he had no answer.
Perhaps this was the peak of Cobra's glory.
Yet it's just one drop in his overall story.
For the few who don't know, research a little more.
Mayweather genius? I'll take Tommy in four.
Ok perhaps Floyd might get past nine.
But four sounded like such a nice rhyme.


----------



## dyna

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#21 Tommy Hearns*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Standing across the Hands of Stone.
> Kronk's finest, Detroit's very own.
> He looked at fearsome Duran and felt no fear.
> Tonight he was the wolf and Manos was the deer.
> Deadly Roberto with those glaring eyes.
> Hitman's right hand and instant demise.
> So full of rage and so full of anger.
> Against Tommy's power he had no answer.
> Perhaps this was the peak of Cobra's glory.
> Yet it's just one drop in his overall story.
> For the few who don't know, research a litte more.
> Mayweather genius? I'll take Tommy in four.
> Ok perhaps Floyd might get past nine.
> But four sounded like such a nice rhyme.


:deal

Tommy Hearns beyond Hagler, I love you Felix.
:happy


----------



## Theron

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#21 Tommy Hearns*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Standing across the Hands of Stone.
> Kronk's finest, Detroit's very own.
> He looked at fearsome Duran and felt no fear.
> Tonight he was the wolf and Manos was the deer.
> Deadly Roberto with those glaring eyes.
> Hitman's right hand and instant demise.
> So full of rage and so full of anger.
> Against Tommy's power he had no answer.
> Perhaps this was the peak of Cobra's glory.
> Yet it's just one drop in his overall story.
> For the few who don't know, research a litte more.
> Mayweather genius? I'll take Tommy in four.
> Ok perhaps Floyd might get past nine.
> But four sounded like such a nice rhyme.


:clap:


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#21 Tommy Hearns*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Standing across the Hands of Stone.
> Kronk's finest, Detroit's very own.
> He looked at fearsome Duran and felt no fear.
> Tonight he was the wolf and Manos was the deer.
> Deadly Roberto with those glaring eyes.
> Hitman's right hand and instant demise.
> So full of rage and so full of anger.
> Against Tommy's power he had no answer.
> Perhaps this was the peak of Cobra's glory.
> Yet it's just one drop in his overall story.
> For the few who don't know, research a little more.
> Mayweather genius? I'll take Tommy in four.
> Ok perhaps Floyd might get past nine.
> But four sounded like such a nice rhyme.


:cheers nice.

Tommy in 4 is extremely reasonable by the way.


----------



## turbotime

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#21 Tommy Hearns*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Standing across the Hands of Stone.
> Kronk's finest, Detroit's very own.
> He looked at fearsome Duran and felt no fear.
> Tonight he was the wolf and Manos was the deer.
> Deadly Roberto with those glaring eyes.
> Hitman's right hand and instant demise.
> So full of rage and so full of anger.
> Against Tommy's power he had no answer.
> Perhaps this was the peak of Cobra's glory.
> Yet it's just one drop in his overall story.
> For the few who don't know, research a little more.
> Mayweather genius? I'll take Tommy in four.
> Ok perhaps Floyd might get past nine.
> But four sounded like such a nice rhyme.





dyna said:


> :deal
> 
> Tommy Hearns beyond Hagler, I love you Felix.
> :happy


People finally starting to see the light that is @FelixTrinidad


----------



## tommygun711

Hearns one of the deadliest welterweights of all time


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> Hearns one of the deadliest welterweights of all time


Yes. He is definitely an ATG. He almost cracked the top 20. If he had beaten Hagler, I would have rated him at 15-17.


----------



## dyna

"More skilled than Mayweather
Gets KTFO"
-A great poster.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> Yes. He is definitely an ATG. He almost cracked the top 20. If he had beaten Hagler, I would have rated him at 15-17.


yeah that would've been an incredible win.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#20 Salvador Sanchez*









Perhaps the most gifted Mexican fighter of all times, one of my favorites enter this prestigious list at 20. I have been a long time fan of Salvador Sanchez and studied his fights in intimate detail. Like a lover one might say. Licking every facet of his mate's body. Every inch of her. From her toes to her vagina up to her breasts and her mouth. That is how I studied Sanchez's fights. What a fighter he was.

He brought power,speed,combinations,and amazing technical skills into the ring with him in every fight. Blasting his way through opposition he was often a paradox of himself. Fluidity one moment, brutality and surreal aggression the next. In perhaps one of the greatest displays seen in regards to actual ring generalship, Snatchz completely and utterly befuddled the great veteran champion Lopez. Picking him apart round after round and eventually finishing with a masterful display of offense. Dirty Sanchez was at times, illegal he was not.
He showed amazing composure against the brilliant and skillful gangster thug Gomez. Mocked and insulted at every turn, Sanchez calmly took Gomez to school via a display of tactical brilliance sprinkled with pain and agony. What truly set my heart aglow every time I watch this beautiful Mexican doing his wonderful pugilism dance of glory was how he incorporate a form of boxing complexity only the very skilled of eyes(like mine) could see. It sets me apart from the common man in yet another area as I am able to decipher the micro seconds of movement and tactical abasis that made Sanchez who he was. I often feel that I am one of the selected few who was blessed by the Boxing Gods to have an accurate measure of what is true greatness and Sanchez is the very definition of that word.

One of the greatest fight I ever seen was Sanchez vs Nelson. Two ATG'S who fought a brutal war in which they went back and forth with everything they got. The highest crescendos of fighting's border was shattered in that fight. Boundaries was expanded until the very volumes of space corrupted and than it was expanded again. The two managed to defy the laws of physics and biochemistry during those brutal yet beautiful rounds, a fight in which H2O does not equal water.

It is a shame that Sanchez died so young, oh what wonders we could have seen. I am just thankful for the treats that he did gave us. 
I remember my Uncle telling me that when he watched Salvador as a young boy he thought that Sanchez was so great he could have 'avoided bullets, swam the Pacific Ocean, eat a whole cow, and survive any car crash. Just the other day he told me 'Hey Felix 3 out of 4 ain't bad'
We miss you Salvador 'D' Sanchez. You deserve your place on my list.


----------



## Nyanners :sad5

Your list is fucking clown shoes.


----------



## Pedderrs

The list is that bad it's a bit silly to single out any one entry, but I think having Sal Sanchez at #20 is, as Flash Jab says, fucking clown shoes.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul

Salvador Sanchez...Becerra problems.


----------



## Theron

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Salvador Sanchez...Becerra problems.


C'mon Sanchez was still only 18 and didn't have much experience and it was the first time he went 12 rounds, take him from a later fight in his career and he'd beat him.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul

Theron said:


> C'mon Sanchez was still only 18 and didn't have much experience and it was the first time he went 12 rounds, take him from a later fight in his career and he'd beat him.


lol was just trolling: http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?32295-Vicente-Saldivar-vs-Lomachenko


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#19 Sugar Ray Leonard*









'Coach'

I walked out the gym on that cold rainy night.
Waiting for my coach, my inspiration my light.
He smiled and waved me into that car.
The seat smelled of dust and tar.
Ray, why don't you give me your hand.
Why I didn't run, I'll never understand.
Confused and unsure as he edged closer.
He grabbed me and suddenly over me he hover.
I know this is wrong I tried to resist.
I cried out, I screamed, I clinched my fist.
Broken trust and a shattered dream.
Was I fooled from the start, not what it seem?
How could he do this to the one he taught?
Duran,Hagler,Hearns,yet this was the hardest battle fought.


----------



## Theron

What's the whole story bout Ray and the coach molesting or whatever it was? I've never heard it fully before


----------



## Kush

Great list

RIP George


----------



## Kush

Theron said:


> What's the whole story bout Ray and the coach molesting or whatever it was? I've never heard it fully before


Ray was getting blowjobs from his coach when he was a kid
Allegedly


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Yep. Ray said that the coach will randomly start putting Ray's dick in his mouth and stuff. It was horrific. Ray will just be sitting in the car and the coach will suddenly unzip Ray's pants and put Ray's dick in his mouth. Surreal. 
That being said .. there is a lot of doubt and talks regarding two issues:

1- Did this actually happened or is Ray just making it up to sell his book.
2-Did Ray allow it to happen because he liked it.
Bama is in the '2' crowd.


----------



## pipe wrenched

:lol:

I knew where you were headed as soon as I saw 'Coach'.

Keep 'em coming, Felix. We inside the top 20 now :scaredas:


----------



## PityTheFool

#77 ;Floyd Mayweather
#76 ;Manny Pacquaio
#71 ;Antonio Margarito

:rofl
How can you not love this guy?


----------



## MadcapMaxie

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#19 Sugar Ray Leonard*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Coach'
> 
> I walked out the gym on that cold rainy night.
> Waiting for my coach, my inspiration my light.
> He smiled and waved me into that car.
> The seat smelled of dust and tar.
> Ray, why don't you give me your hand.
> Why I didn't run, I'll never understand.
> Confused and unsure as he edged closer.
> He grabbed me and suddenly over me he hover.
> I know this is wrong I tried to resist.
> I cried out, I screamed, I clinched my fist.
> Broken trust and a shattered dream.
> Was I fooled from the start, not what it seem?
> How could he do this to the one he taught?
> Duran,Hagler,Hearns,yet this was the hardest battle fought.


Lelz


----------



## MadcapMaxie

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> lol was just trolling: http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?32295-Vicente-Saldivar-vs-Lomachenko


Yep I'm just trolling see guys look I'm just trolling wasn't it funny? ahahah yep I'm just trolling most of the time but only when I say I'm trolling but wasn't my trolling funny guys? I'll provide essay length answers to back up my trolling and get butthurt if you insult me buy dont worry I'm just trolling.....please believe me.


----------



## PityTheFool

I can even ignore the bullshit placing and rubbish tribute to Ray because Felix's list has been a scream.


----------



## Hands of Iron

PityTheFool said:


> I can even ignore the bullshit placing and rubbish tribute to Ray because Felix's list has been a scream.


No Mike McCallum yet


----------



## PityTheFool

Hands of Iron said:


> No Mike McCallum yet


Are you expecting him now?:lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron

PityTheFool said:


> Are you expecting him now?:lol:


Absolutely. I have faith in Felix.

He put Rigondeaux at #28 at the height of my bitching and moaning for him in various other threads. that entry still makes my eyes water :rofl


----------



## PityTheFool

Hands of Iron said:


> Absolutely. I have faith in Felix.
> 
> He put Rigondeaux at #28 at the height of my bitching and moaning for him in various other threads. that entry still makes my eyes water :rofl


This list certainly isn't eye-friendly(in a good way)


----------



## Hands of Iron

PityTheFool said:


> This list certainly isn't eye-friendly(in a good way)


Azumah Nelson isn't going to make it.


----------



## PityTheFool

Hands of Iron said:


> Azumah Nelson isn't going to make it.


And why on earth should he? :lol:

Has Arguello missed the boat?


----------



## MadcapMaxie

PityTheFool said:


> And why on earth should he? :lol:
> 
> Has Arguello missed the boat?


Top 20 for Nelson is ridiculous but top 100 most certainly. Top 70 really. I'm just pissed I know Marciano isn't going to make it. Lewis will be number 1 no question.


----------



## PityTheFool

MadcapMaxie said:


> Top 20 for Nelson is ridiculous but top 100 most certainly. Top 70 really. I'm just pissed I know Marciano isn't going to make it. Lewis will be number 1 no question.


Maxie,if it was anyone other than Felix I'd be all over this,but you have to admit,it's hilarious at times.

Didn't you notice how well I took his ridiculous placing and horrendous poem about Ray?


----------



## Hands of Iron

MadcapMaxie said:


> Top 20 for Nelson is ridiculous but top 100 most certainly. *Top 70 really.* I'm just pissed I know Marciano isn't going to make it. Lewis will be number 1 no question.


:deal


----------



## Hands of Iron

Leonard got shit on really bad in this :lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad

PityTheFool said:


> Maxie,if it was anyone other than Felix I'd be all over this,but you have to admit,it's hilarious at times.
> 
> Didn't you notice how well I took his *ridiculous placing* and *horrendous poem* about Ray?


There are just so many great fighters it's always going to be debatable. My list is just like Mcgrain's.. it sparks debate and thought. I know a lot of people over at NSB who LAUGHS at Mcgrain's list. Laughs. Like out loud laugh. It's just tough to make a top 100 list.

They are all such great fighters.

Sugar Ray Leonard is an AMAZING fighter. I rank him at 19 and I can't really go any higher because of the sheer quality of the first 18 fighters.(No not Robin Reid).

I am thankful that you did not take offense to the poem, as I was writing it I realized immediately that some Leonard fans might take the poem the 'wrong way'. I am not trying to promote homosexuality or **** rape in any way shape or form. I was simply trying to put myself in Leonard's shoes and attempt to express some of what I THINK he felt that night.

I enjoy reading your posts Pity the Fool. It is thought provoking and highly entertaining.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

MadcapMaxie said:


> Top 20 for Nelson is ridiculous but top 100 most certainly. Top 70 really. I'm just pissed I know Marciano isn't going to make it. Lewis will be number 1 no question.


Nelson is a great fighter. I also enjoy reading some of your posts. You are a knowledgeable poster. I have Nelson at 101, he just missed out. If Glen Johnson hadn't knocked Roy into a coma, Nelson would have taken his place. Both are fantastic fighters and it was a treat reviewing their careers.


----------



## Hands of Iron

FelixTrinidad said:


> Nelson is a great fighter. I also enjoy reading some of your posts. You are a knowledgeable poster. I have Nelson at 101, he just missed out. If Glen Johnson hadn't knocked Roy into a coma, Nelson would have taken his place. Both are fantastic fighters and it was a treat reviewing their careers.


Love the intro






Great doc


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Hands of Iron said:


> Love the intro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great doc


This thread aside.................

That is actually an amazing doc. Thank you for sharing it. I will be watching it as I eat. I love eating and watching boxing documentaries at the same time.


----------



## Hands of Iron

FelixTrinidad said:


> This thread aside.................
> 
> That is actually an amazing doc. Thank you for sharing it. I will be watching it as I eat. I love eating and watching boxing documentaries at the same time.


It really is pretty enjoyable bro, and not so long at 52 mins.

I can't wait to see where Spinks ends up on this list. Few have ever accomplished so much in so few fights. Cleaned out one of the stronger LHW eras in history, rates for many as the #1 H2H LHW on film of all-time and beat an undefeated Holmes at Heavyweight on top of it. '76 Olympic Gold Medalist. Fucking awesome career.


----------



## PityTheFool

Hands of Iron said:


> It really is pretty enjoyable bro, and not so long at 52 mins.
> 
> I can't wait to see where Spinks ends up on this list. Few have ever accomplished so much in so few fights. Cleaned out one of the stronger LHW eras in history, rates for many as the #1 H2H LHW on film of all-time and beat an undefeated Holmes at Heavyweight on top of it. '76 Olympic Gold Medalist. Fucking awesome career.


I can't remember if I said the exact same thing on this thread or a similar comment on another,but I remember commenting on Jinx lately.

And Felix,you and me are always good mate.Turbo likes to take all the credit but I was mentioning the ridiculousness of this forum without you on many occasions.
This list has been highly entertaining.


----------



## Lester1583

Hands of Iron said:


> Cleaned out one of the stronger LHW eras in history,


Barely cleaned out the corpses of one of the weakestt eras in history.

Yaqui was shot, Gregory drained, M.Johnson was a feather fister, E.Davis beat him.

The rest are unknowns.



Hands of Iron said:


> rates for many as the #1 H2H LHW on film of all-time


He's #7 on my list.

Right below Joey DeGrandis.

Spinks was a poor man's Rocchigiani.



Hands of Iron said:


> beat an undefeated Holmes at Heavyweight on top of it


Robbery.



Hands of Iron said:


> '76 Olympic Gold Medalist


Blatant robbery.



Hands of Iron said:


> Fucking awesome career.


Amazingly horrible career.

Spinks is not even a top 15 at light heavy.


----------



## PityTheFool

And worth noting the performance young Nelson put up against Chava in what, his fourteenth or fifteenth fight?


----------



## Hands of Iron

Shut up Lester :lol:

Holmes did win the second fight though.


----------



## Hands of Iron

PityTheFool said:


> And worth noting the performance young Nelson put up against Chava in what, his fourteenth or fifteenth fight?


He's probably one of my least talked about favorites.


----------



## Lester1583

Hands of Iron said:


> Holmes did win the second fight though.


He definitely lost.

I know, I've boxrec'd it.

Maybe even by KO.

I'm still not sure.


----------



## PityTheFool

Hands of Iron said:


> He's probably one of my least talked about favorites.


Rocky,there's one thing I want you to do for me....


----------



## PityTheFool

Hands of Iron said:


> Shut up Lester :lol:
> 
> Holmes did win the second fight though.


Proof that civility and a nice smile (or lack thereof) can go a long way.(Holmes)


----------



## Hands of Iron

PityTheFool said:


> Rocky,there's one thing I want you to do for me....


Fenech II is legendary stuff for me personally. Probably a top tener in terms of favorite individual performances


----------



## PityTheFool

Hands of Iron said:


> Fenech II is legendary stuff for me personally. Probably a top tener in terms of favorite individual performances


I feel an appreciation week coming on...


----------



## Lester1583

Hands of Iron said:


> Fenech II is legendary stuff for me personally. Probably a top tener in terms of favorite individual performances


Cowdell who gave Sanchez all he could handle - now that was impressive stuff by Azumah.


----------



## PityTheFool

Lester1583 said:


> Cowdell who gave Sanchez all he could handle - now that was impressive stuff by Azumah.


I actually had an old VHS of that.Pat was pretty upset after that one(when he got up)


----------



## Hands of Iron

PityTheFool said:


> I feel an appreciation week coming on...


Not quite yet, especially after how I was going on about Whitaker in LEON's Ring IQ thread. Someone like @Pedderrs would probably take it as me just hyping an opponent of a 'real' favorite ala McCallum with Toney which you and I both know is completely ridiculous. I have a very deep respect for Nelson all his own, great fighter. It's actually not all that different from Mike thinking about it. He gave Sanchez all he could handle as a novice, blasted two ATGs into another dimension on their own turf (and fuck yeah I rate that win over Gomez even at 126, he was boxing quite well if you ask me), gave rematches to both Villasana and Martinez to leave no question, took out both Ruelas and Leijas when he was well past. He's a Beast flat out and a class act... The post fight rant on McGuigan was hilarious. Fairly underrated defensively too if you ask me.

I wonder how @Flea Man be rating him. No amount of mentions can attract @Flea Man to the WBF. I know he's a HUGE Fenech guy who'd probably point out Jeff's terribly brittle hands and shit training camp for the rematch, it evens out though considering Nelson's bout with malaria before the first that Fenech absolutely won. To go down under and pull that shit off, c'mon man... :yep



Lester1583 said:


> Cowdell who gave Sanchez all he could handle - now that was impressive stuff by Azumah.


That uppercut. :jayz

Maybe my second favorite to.. well, you know the one.

I haven't seen the Jim McDonnell fight. Or LaPorte actually for that matter tbh.


----------



## Lester1583

Hands of Iron said:


> fuck yeah I rate that win over Gomez even at 126, he was boxing quite well if you ask me


Says more about Azumah than Gomez - Gomez wasn't even half the fighter he was 4 four years ago,:yep

I like an early Azumah more - he never was as relentless as he was against Sanchez.

Fuck technical stuff - wild unstoppable beasts is where it's at.

The same goes for Duran, by the way.



Hands of Iron said:


> LaPorte


He's the reason of Lockridge's tears.

LaPorte make McCall look like Khan - unbreakable chin.

Pedroza robbed him:ibutt

Been ages since I watched it but if I remember correctly the tank-like Laporte made Azumah run like a bitch:bbb


----------



## Hands of Iron

Lester1583 said:


> Says more about Azumah than Gomez - Gomez wasn't even half the fighter he was 4 four years ago,:yep
> 
> I like an early Azumah more - he never was as relentless as he was against Sanchez.


I agree, Azumah probably shouldn't of needed to rally. He was hardly perfect, but it makes him interesting as well.



> Fuck technical stuff - wild unstoppable beasts is where it's at.
> 
> The same goes for Duran, by the way.


I believe you here.



> He's the reason of Lockridge's tears.
> 
> LaPorte make McCall look like Khan - unbreakable chin.
> 
> Pedroza robbed him:ibutt
> 
> Been ages since I watched it but if I remember correctly Laporte made Azumah run like a bitch:bbb


:lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#18 Len Wickwar*









Len Wickwar have a total of 339 wins. Yes. 339 wins. Sugar Ray Robinson have a total of 173 wins. Wickwar have almost twice as many wins as Sugar Ray Robinson. Think about that for a second and let that sink in.
Known as the 'Forgotten Assassin', Wickwar boxed a total of 3962 rounds. It's staggering how difficult this feat was. Just imagine getting that many wins. To put matters into perspective think about this:

Floyd Mayweather Jr have 45 wins. He debuted in 1996. That's 2.5 wins a year. Floyd will have to box for another 100 years just to get 200 more wins. And he'll STILL BE AT 245.

I want people to think about this. This stat is one of the most unbelievable stats in sports history. 339 wins.

Let's do a little more homework:
Mayweather Jr 45 Wins
Manny Pacquiao 55 Wins
Roberto Duran 103 Wins
= 203 Wins

Len Wickwar 339 Wins


----------



## Eoghan

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#18 Len Wickwar*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Len Wickwar have a total of 339 wins. Yes. 339 wins. Sugar Ray Robinson have a total of 173 wins. Wickwar have almost twice as many wins as Sugar Ray Robinson. Think about that for a second and let that sink in.
> Known as the 'Forgotten Assassin', Wickwar boxed a total of 3962 rounds. It's staggering how difficult this feat was. Just imagine getting that many wins. To put matters into perspective think about this:
> 
> Floyd Mayweather Jr have 45 wins. He debuted in 1996. That's 2.5 wins a year. Floyd will have to box for another 100 years just to get 200 more wins. And he'll STILL BE AT 245.
> 
> I want people to think about this. This stat is one of the most unbelievable stats in sports history. 339 wins.
> 
> Let's do a little more homework:
> Mayweather Jr 45 Wins
> Manny Pacquiao 55 Wins
> Roberto Duran 103 Wins
> = 203 Wins
> 
> Len Wickwar 339 Wins


All this with six years out cos of WWII as well. Great find!


----------



## Eoghan

War Wickwar！


----------



## Lester1583

Hands of Iron said:


> I'm your biggest fan
> I'll follow you until you love me
> Loma-Lomachenko
> 
> Baby, there's no other superstar
> You know that I'll be your
> Loma-Lomachenko


On a completely unrelated note.

1983:



> Nearly two dozen boxing champions of last two decades had gathered for the World Boxing Council's 20th anniversary dinner at the United Nations building.
> 
> More than a dozen champions from Ali era were asked the same question at the dinner - aside from yourself, who was the best fighter of your time?
> 
> Of the 14 champions polled, nine named Ali.
> Ali, of course, couldn't vote for himself.
> With four other champions each preferring a gladiator other than Ali, they produced one vote each for Leonard, Duran, Griffith and the late Salvador Sanchez and the late Sonny Liston.
> 
> Leonard was named by Monzon.
> "Leonard was the best, a complete boxer and puncher," Monzon said. "He was valiant and he was also intelligent."
> 
> Duran who declined to answer the question, was chosen by Torres.
> "Duran is smart, one of the few fighters to use his intelligence inside," Torres said.
> 
> Sanchez was selected by Bob Foster.
> "Sanchez was like a machine," Forster said. "He reminded me of myself in that he took his time and set up his opponent. I liked the way he moved, he never threw a wild punch."
> 
> Griffith was named by Carlos Ortiz
> "Griffith won five titles against the best fighter," Ortiz said. "Ali was a great promoter with good boxing ability, but Griffith was a great all-around fighter.".
> 
> Griffith, Leonard, Arguello, Hearns, Benvenuti, Jofre, Holmes, Norton, Frazier chose Ali.
> 
> When the "champ" himself was asked, Ali spoke first of Floyd Patterson, saying, "Patterson was scientific; he was fast."
> But then the "champ" himself shook his head.
> "Sonny Liston, he hit too hard. He beat Patterson twice," Ali said of the man he dethroned as champion and then he winked. "I'm the only guy who beat Liston when he was good."


----------



## elterrible

Dont forget bro's

17 is up already, hes still on 18 officially.

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...fighters-of-all-times-CountDown-17-Robin-Reid

Shaq coming in at number 9 soon but you didnt hear it from me.


----------



## turbotime

Lester1583 said:


> On a completely unrelated note.
> 
> 1983:


The champs of yesteryear REALLY paid attention to their boxing


----------



## PityTheFool

This list is magnificent.Greb and Pep placed perfectly.
@FelixTrinidad; can I get a nicer Part II about Ray?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

PityTheFool said:


> This list is magnificent.Greb and Pep placed perfectly.
> 
> @FelixTrinidad; *can I get a nicer Part II about Ray?*


I'll try my best................


----------



## FelixTrinidad

PityTheFool said:


> This list is magnificent.Greb and Pep placed perfectly.
> 
> @FelixTrinidad; can I get a nicer Part II about Ray?


 * Sugar Ray Leonard*
I'm out of ideas for a boxing poem.
Tonight going out, won't be at home.
I said I'll do a 2nd tribute to Sugar Ray.
But I'm stuck with no rhymes what should I Say?
I better finish this fast.
Writer's Block coming, my thoughts won't last.
Just watching Benitez TKO and I was so drawn.
Going in depth about his resume will take to dawn.
Night in Montreal was he deceived?
Did the brawl take away from what he achieved?
Rematch wiped away all doubt.
Made Iron Man quit, who would have thought?
Hearns so menacing with power to break bone.
Leonard broke him like he broke Hands of Stone.
They see that cocky smile, what arrogance and pride!
Dig deeper and resilience is what lays inside.
Tragedy struck, took away his prime.
Came back against Marvin and beat Father Time.
Aging warriors meet once more.
Slow,sluggish,not like it was before.
Yet somehow Leonard/Hearns turned back the clock.
Dazed and hurt yet still they fought.
Reflexes gone,easy to hit but neither will fold.
This was their last great story told.
Duran fans love to give Roberto wings, make him soar!
But the truth is, we all know who was the best of the fab four.


----------



## PityTheFool

FelixTrinidad said:


> * Sugar Ray Leonard*
> I'm out of ideas for a boxing poem.
> Tonight going out, won't be at home.
> I said I'll do a 2nd tribute to Sugar Ray.
> But I'm stuck with no rhymes what should I Say?
> I better finish this fast.
> Writer's Block coming, my thoughts won't last.
> Just watching Benitez TKO and I was so drawn.
> Going in depth about his resume will take to dawn.
> Night in Montreal was he deceived?
> Did the brawl take away from what he achieved?
> Rematch wiped away all doubt.
> Made Iron Man quit, who would have thought?
> Hearns so menacing with power to break bone.
> Leonard broke him like he broke Hands of Stone.
> They see that cocky smile, what arrogance and pride!
> Dig deeper and resilience is what lays inside.
> Tragedy struck, took away his prime.
> Came back against Marvin and beat Father Time.
> Aging warriors meet once more.
> Slow,sluggish,not like it was before.
> Yet somehow Leonard/Hearns turned back the clock.
> Dazed and hurt yet still they fought.
> Reflexes gone,easy to hit but neither will fold.
> This was their last great story told.
> Duran fans love to give Roberto wings, make him soar!
> But the truth is, we all know who was the best of the fab four.


Attaboy Felix! :good


----------



## FelixTrinidad

I don't want to make a thread specifically for this so I'm going to put this video here.

This is an amazing song. One of the underrated classics. My cousin told me girls in the hood was crying over this back in the days.
Tears everywhere the moment this song came on.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Prime Claudette Ortiz brutally KO all these 'Hip Hop' bitches today. Maybe Keri Hilton can last until the third round.


----------



## pipe wrenched

Sabelle






:blurp


----------



## FelixTrinidad

pipe wrenched said:


> Sabelle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :blurp


Thanks. That was a great song. I actually never heard it before. 
Burning this into my latest mix.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#17 Dariusz Michalczewski*









The nightmare of Roy Jones Jr's existence during the entire duration of Roy's 175 run, Dariusz enters the list at 17.
Dariusz Michalczewski defended his WBO light heavyweight title 23 times and was one of the most brilliant LHW'S of all times. His supreme jab,footwork,ring generalship and power enabled him to counter all styles and brush aside all opposition with relative ease. Charging all the way to an impressive 48-0 record prior to his first defeat, Dariusz was truly one of the LHW greats.

A massive puncher with sharp timing and acute angle usage, DM was legitimately feared by his opposition. Two of Michalczewski's victories stand out when analyzing how a potential Jones-DM fight would have gone.
Montell Griffin, who managed to beat Roy Jones Jr and gave Roy all sorts of troubles even prior to the DQ, was himself thoroughly humiliated by Michalczewski's relentless pressure,fortitude,and stamina. The tricks and tactics that worked so well against Roy failed utterly against Michalczewski as Griffin was brutally tkoed in 4. The slick Graciano Rocchigiani, a fighter Roy had little interest in facing was also a KO Victim of Michalczewski's as he put up a better fight than Griffin but still eventually succumbed to the savage aggression that became such a trademark of Dariusz's reign of terror.

Here is a few interesting excerpts regarding the whole DM-Jones Jr situation:

Quote

""The WBA immediately stripped DM of the WBA title as they did not recognize the WBO title at the time and the IBF ordered him to fight William Guthrie within 30 days of winning the belt off Hill. This would have been impossible for DM to do in such a short amount of time. So there was no way he could have kept the titles. The powers that be bent over backwards at the time to screw DM and give RJJ the belts and he was seen as a potential cash cow for the sanctioning bodies.""

End Quote

Quote

"After beating Hill, Michalczewski knocked out 14 consecutive opponents, all in defense of his Lineal/WBO titles. In 1998, he defeated Drake Thadzi, in 1999 he defeated Montel Griffin, and in 2000 he defeated Graciano Rocchigiani.
Darius would attempt for six years to secure a bout with his American counterpart, Roy Jones Jr, without success. After his titles were stripped from Dariusz, Jones would win Michalczewski's belts and spuriously declare himself "undisputed world champion". Jones steadfastly refused all offers for a lucrative fight with Darius and even made an attempt to ban the mention of Michalczewski's name on his home network, HBO. Seth Abraham, president and CEO of HBO, refused Jones demand and in 2002 a fan poll showed that the fight fans most wanted to see was Darius Michalczewski vs Roy Jones Jr. Jones continued to refuse offers for the fight however. One of his motivations may have been due to the fact that the offers were for the fight to be held in Europe, where Jones feared he could only win by a knockout.

End Quote.

After reviewing significant amounts of detailed evidence in regards to this case, my verdict is that Jones Jr was guilty of clearly avoiding Dariusz Michalczewski.This means that Roy's resume is added to Dariusz's, which propels him to the 17th spot due to Roy's incredible achievements.


----------



## PityTheFool

I'm so impressed with DM's placing above Ray that I want to join the Raymi Express Felix.
Roy ducking Dariusz=Roy lost is absolute genius.
This thread has HOF potential.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

PityTheFool said:


> I'm so impressed with DM's placing above Ray that I want to join the Raymi Express Felix.
> Roy ducking Dariusz=Roy lost is absolute genius.
> This thread has HOF potential.


I try to keep it objective and legitimate. I respect the hell out of Mcgrain. The HELL.

But let's just look at his '17'.

George Dixon

Who the fuck is George Dixon?
This guy was a 4'11 midget that fought in the freaking 1800's Little House on the Prairie style.
Probably fought guys that were part time corn breeders and grape pickers.
:lol:

How would George Dixon do against Prime Dariusz?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

FelixTrinidad said:


> I try to keep it objective and legitimate. I respect the hell out of Mcgrain. The HELL.
> 
> But let's just look at his '17'.
> 
> George Dixon
> 
> Who the fuck is George Dixon?
> This guy was a 4'11 midget that fought in the freaking 1800's Little House on the Prairie style.
> Probably fought guys that were part time corn breeders and grape pickers.
> :lol:
> 
> *How would George Dixon do against Prime Dariusz?*


Brutal KO1 within the first 20 seconds. 19 seconds to actually find the pygmy and 1 second to knock him the fuck out.
:deal


----------



## Hands of Iron

PityTheFool said:


> I'm so impressed with DM's placing above Ray that I want to join the Raymi Express Felix.
> Roy ducking Dariusz=Roy lost is absolute genius.
> This thread has HOF potential.


Fingers still crossed on The BODY SNATCHER.

Automatic wins over Hearns and Duran on top of beating James Toney, Julian Jackson, Sumbu Kalambay, Donald Curry, Michael Watson, Steve Collins, Herol Graham, Milton McCrory, Ayub Kalule, David Braxton... GOAT @ 154 lbs, Top 10 ATG Technician, Never Stopped...


----------



## FelixTrinidad

WATCH OUT.

Here comes the VOLVO to make a splash in America's Luxury Car Market.





:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I need this song!


----------



## turbotime

Hands of Iron said:


> Fingers still crossed on The BODY SNATCHER.
> 
> *Automatic wins over Hearns and Duran* on top of beating James Toney, Julian Jackson, Sumbu Kalambay, Donald Curry, Michael Watson, Steve Collins, Herol Graham, Milton McCrory, Ayub Kalule, David Braxton... GOAT @ 154 lbs, Top 10 ATG Technician, Never Stopped...


:rofl :yep


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#16 Henry Cooper*









Sir Henry Cooper(a Knight) enters this list for the sole reason of beating the Great Muhammad Ali in his prime. Cooper met Clay as a massive under dog and more than held his own for four rounds until he exploded in orgasmic fury and landed a punch that would have rocked Zeus. Ali was effectively knocked out cold. His entire body and brain was gone. His chemical parts forced the unconscious Clay up on to his feet but everyone can tell Clay was already knocked out cold. His body was just reacting in the same way someone reacts after being shot 100 times. You often see this in war movies, when the dead soldier is still twitching on the ground despite being dead. Ali was gone and knocked out. He was finished.

What happened after that was a crime of evil and an act of treason by Dundee. The great Dundee showed his criminal side by applying smelling salt to reawaken Ali's brain. Smelling Salt was illegal in England and that should have been a DQ right there. If Dundee didn't know the rules, that was his fault. It's up to him to know the rules of pugilism and the most likely scenario is that he did know it but knew that was the only way to snap Ali's dead body back into focus.
The smelling salt jolted Ali into consciousness again and he went on to defeat the valiant Cooper on a lucky cut. History might have gone against Cooper and said he 'lost' to Ali. But there are always learned scholars and boxing writers like myself who will never forget and we sure as Hell will place Cooper accordingly.
Henry Cooper got a legitimate Knockout Victory over Prime Muhammad Ali. That one win alone eclipse Duran/Leonard. Ali was a greater fighter than Leonard. In fact Ali is one of the 10 greatest fighters of all times. Cooper knocking him out solidifies his own position as a top 16 ATG.

For a modern day comparison,imagine if Broner's trainer has given Broner something illegal after the 2nd knock down. Imagine Broner being rejuvenated by that substance and going on to KO Maidana. Will this be controversial? Yes or no? 
Case point. Case close.


----------



## the cobra

Hands of Iron said:


> Fingers still crossed on The BODY SNATCHER.
> 
> Automatic wins over Hearns and Duran on top of beating James Toney, Julian Jackson, Sumbu Kalambay, Donald Curry, Michael Watson, Steve Collins, Herol Graham, Milton McCrory, Ayub Kalule, David Braxton... GOAT @ 154 lbs, Top 10 ATG Technician, Never Stopped...


With the addition of Cooper, it's too late now, much too late. He had the perfect opportunity, too. :verysad



the cobra said:


> *#16. Mike McCallum
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike McCallum was called the bodysnatcher because he used his clubbing power and ripping hooks to snatch away his opponents bodies. He was like an alien who came in and stole and took over your body with violence. ATG Julian Jackson? Snatched. ATG Sumbu Kalambay? Snatched. Herol Graham? Snatched. Donald Curry? Snatched. Michael Watson? Snatched. Even great Fat Man James Toney before he got fat got his fat body snatched away by the bodysnatcher. This Jamaican hero spent most of his career being ducked and dodged by the best of him, so infamous and feared and was his legendary and feared bodysnatching abilities.
> 
> when you think international reggae superstar...you think Mike McCallum...and then he snatches your body away.


----------



## Theron

International reggae superstar :lol:


----------



## PityTheFool

Hands of Iron said:


> Fingers still crossed on The BODY SNATCHER.
> 
> Automatic wins over Hearns and Duran on top of beating James Toney, Julian Jackson, Sumbu Kalambay, Donald Curry, Michael Watson, Steve Collins, Herol Graham, Milton McCrory, Ayub Kalule, David Braxton... GOAT @ 154 lbs, Top 10 ATG Technician, Never Stopped...


I'm starting to worry now.It's unlikely that the guy who is the GOAT at 154 is going to come higher than Sir 'Enry,the guy you couldn't cut with an open razor.
If Angelo hadn't pulled that shit with the glove Clay would've gone to Nam like the rest of us did.
History would have been very different.The Rumble In The Jungle would've been The Woosh In Shephard's Bush.


----------



## pipe wrenched

PityTheFool said:


> I'm so impressed with DM's placing above Ray that I want to join the Raymi Express Felix.
> Roy ducking Dariusz=Roy lost is absolute genius.
> This thread has HOF potential.


Yeah, that and the "KO" of Rochigiani think)


----------



## PityTheFool

pipe wrenched said:


> Yeah, that and the "KO" of Rochigiani think)


Reminded me of when Ray "KO'd" Duran.

Didn't Rocchigiani win a fortune from the WBC?
That must've hurt old Jose for a few weeks until he shafted a few fighters to balance the books.


----------



## pipe wrenched

PityTheFool said:


> Reminded me of when Ray "KO'd" Duran.
> 
> Didn't Rocchigiani win a fortune from the WBC?
> That must've hurt old Jose for a few weeks until he shafted a few fighters to balance the books.


I'm not sure,but DM's "acting" was one of the worse I ever seen to get that DQ :!:


----------



## Melocure

Where's Robin Reid?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#15 Rocky Marciano
*









Someone once told me that there will never be another Mike Tyson. Rocky Marciano proved that someone a liar.
The vicious storm that was Marciano torn his way through the Heavyweight Division like a angry cloud. He dismantled and demoralized all challengers on route to a perfect 49-0. Toying with such ATG Talents like Joe Louis,Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore. Marciano was the killer of the Black Murderer's row. Feared by his enemies and worshiped by his fans, Marciano brought with him a sense of violent urgency so rarely seen yet forever remembered.

Iron fists controlled by a genius mind, Marciano's adaptability at ring central mobility symmetric foot work ergo on to a series of body combinations that often leave one crippling. His mind was a wondrous weapon as he broke down flaws and decipher program codes like the most brilliant of scientists. Walcott lasted 13 in the 1st fight, he lasted 1 in the 2nd. Charles lasted 15 in the 1st fight, he lasted 8 in the 2nd. Perhaps his beat down of the legendary Joe Louis was what elevated his standing in my eyes to the top 15 instead of the top 20. Louis was thoroughly dismembered and gelded by Marciano, he was never in the fight and never once looked good. The gulf in class was astronomical. The gulf in power garguatnatucal. The gulf in speed, ridiculous. The gulf in ring intelligence, insurmountable. Rocky Marciano would never beat Lennox Lewis. But he sure as hell beat Joe Louis and looked amazing doing it.

I compare Marciano with another undefeated fighter name Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Here is where it stands. Listen.

This is an opinion. Floyd Mayweather Jr is greater than Rocky Marciano.

Now this is a fact: Rocky Marciano would brutally KO Mayweather's entire resume.. including Mayweather himself. All within 1-2 rounds.
Mayweather Jr on the other hand.. would suffer double digit losses against Marciano's resume and would get knocked out by Marciano.

We can argue all day if Marciano really deserves to be ranked 'above Floyd'. 
What we can't argue is that Marciano would beat Floyd 10 out of 10 times.

Will we ever see another Marciano again? My heart says yes. I just hope that it will be during my life time.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

I just realized there is only one Black fighter in the top 20 so far.


----------



## One to watch

This is comic genius.

If only boxing was as popular as football then this countdown would be good enough for mainstream print.

An ironic top 100 by Felix Trinidad.


----------



## KERRIGAN

This list is based on how physically attracted Felix is to the fighters, isn't it?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

KERRIGAN said:


> This list is based on how physically attracted Felix is to the fighters, isn't it?


No, than the entire list would just be Black Heavyweights.


----------



## dyna

FelixTrinidad said:


> No, than the entire list would just be Black Heavyweights.


You're forgetting about Sergio Martinez and Oscar Delahoya?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#14 Mike Mccallum*








The reason Mccallum's name took so long to activate on this list was because I have been running thousands of simulations in regards to how a Mccallum vs Robinson Match up at 154 would be like. After running a total of 5,454 simulations. I have come to the most accurate RBR break down of a Mccallum vs Robinson Match up at JMW.
In addition to The Cobra's brilliant write up, I will like to add a comprehensive RBR of Mccallum vs Robinson. This might not be 100% accurate, but it's as close as you can possibly get short of a time machine.

Round 1
Robinson is the smaller man tonight, how would he adjust. Robinson moves forward aggressively, throwing body combinations right away. No jabs needed. Mccallum easily dodges Robinson's attempts, OH Big LEFT HOOK by Mccallum and ROBINSON is hurt. He is HURT. He left himself way too open. Mccallum moves in for the kill but Robinson got a CHIN on him. Granite chin as Robinson taking bomb after bomb from Mccallum. This is horrifying stuff, Mccallum hitting Robinson with everything including the kitchen sink but Robinson REFUSES to go down. Mccallum ends the round with another series of power punches but Robinson smiles gamely.
*10-9 Mccallum*

Round 2
Robinson refuse to adjust and come forward aggressively again. throwing a series of combinations.. Mccallum easily avoids the punches and OH COUNTERS with a HUGE LEFT HOOK and Robinson ONCE AGAIN hurt. Vicious body shots by the Body Snatcher.. oh you can hear it from the 10th row.. oh and Robinson smiles and roars in defiance. OH blood is pouring out of Robinson's mouth, Mccallum might have broken a rib. Robinson throws caution to the wind as he fights back like a wild man. Mccallum hit with a good right hand but his granite chin matches Robinson's power. Robinson ends the round strong with good pressure and landing a few jabs.
*10-9 Mccallum*

Round 3
Robinson STILL refuse to adjust. He is no coward. This man have no fear. No respect. He charges forward yet again and walks into another left hook by Mccallum. OH Vicious upper cut combination and Robinson is badly hurt again.. he's staggering.. OH OH OH .. Robinson caught with the big right hand. . "Oh no, that's what we were worried about!!!!!!!!! Down goes Robinson and he is out cold. OH he's out cold. He's not getting up Jim. And Mccallum got his revenge. It happened it happened. HE DONE BROKE HIS LEGS. *KO 3 Mccallum.*


----------



## PityTheFool

Felix,you never disappoint me kiddo.:good

@Hands of Iron;Our boy did the right thing.Mike KO'ng Candy Cane Robinson in 3.Genius!

Michaelchzweski and Mike McCallum just a couple of places apart.
Just how it should be.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

PityTheFool said:


> Felix,you never disappoint me kiddo.:good
> 
> @Hands of Iron;Our boy did the right thing.Mike KO'ng Candy Cane Robinson in 3.Genius!
> 
> *Michaelchzweski* and Mike McCallum just a couple of places apart.
> Just how it should be.


Turbotime is one of my favorite posters but Roy Jones Jr clearly avoided DM. I don't care if he 'could have' beaten DM, he avoided him. 
There should have been a unification fight, but instead Cautious Roy was content dingo punching my Uncle's friend.


----------



## Hands of Iron

Reluctant Roy*


----------



## PityTheFool

FelixTrinidad said:


> Turbotime is one of my favorite posters but Roy Jones Jr clearly avoided DM. I don't care if he 'could have' beaten DM, he avoided him.
> There should have been a unification fight, but instead Cautious Roy was content dingo punching my Uncle's friend.


"Overrated Roy Jones Junior"

You're singing to the choir buddy.Roy made Calzaghe look good and that's unforgivable.


----------



## Theron

;''HE DONE BROKE HIS LEGS''! :good :ibutt


----------



## Brickfists

I gotta give it to ya Felix, this is an epic troll thread, the work you have put into it has been nothing short of outstanding.


----------



## turbotime

PityTheFool said:


> "Overrated Roy Jones Junior"
> 
> You're singing to the choir buddy.Roy made Calzaghe look good and that's unforgivable.


:rofl

Shot Roy Jones had Superr Joe looking up at the lights.


----------



## Eoghan

FelixTrinidad said:


> No, than the entire list would just be Black Heavyweights.


Fuck, that list would be Joshua all the way with a brief shout out to Lennox


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#13 Héctor Camacho*









Very few people beat Sugar Ray Leonard. Very few people beat Roberto Duran. Nobody beat both. Not only did Camacho beat both, he beat Duran twice.
The flashy show boating Original Mayweather of Dance swagged and oozed his way through the competition with a grace and air of arrogance that would never be forgotten.Camacho fought them all, Vinnie Paz,Duran,Leonard,De La Hoya, Trinidad,Chavez.....his resume of fights taken read like a who's who of boxing greats. His wins against Paz,Leonard, and Duran X2 stands out even more.

Roy Jones beat a bloated blown up Paz who was way past his prime. It was considered one of Roy's greatest performances. Camacho beat a Prime Vinnie at his best weight. Roberto Duran was able to beat Iran Barkley, Camacho out classed him through 24 brutal rounds. Sugar Ray Leonard managed to beat Tommy Hearns,Marvin Hagler, Roberto Duran, and Wilfred Benítez. Camacho knocked him out.

Why did we all love and adore the Macho man? It wasn't just his addictive personality and his incredible usage of the 'N' word. It was because of his iron heart and that relentless will. Blinding hand speed combined with magnificent foot work and a granite chin. Camacho wrote his own chapter in boxing lore and he did it not with a pen, but with a 500 Carat Diamond paint brush. Forever thinking outside the box, always one step ahead of his competition, perception and flow, rhyme and adaptability. It is not so much the pull counters but the ability to foresee the pull counters which made him great. He stopped Leonard because he was faster, more in tune, and had greater timing. He beat Duran twice because he was smarter and had better control. He imagined a game plan and he stuck by it. Duran was never able to adjust.

13 is often viewed as a unlucky number. But we sure are lucky that we got to see Hector fight.


----------



## pipe wrenched

THat Fire Man outfit of his .. I ... :lol:










RIP , Macho :yep


----------



## turbotime

Delahoya whooped Camacho's ass so bad


----------



## PityTheFool

I'm looking forward to seeing Edwin Rosario, the man who stole Macho's balls,in the top 10.


This list just never fails to deliver.Well done Felix.


----------



## FloydPatterson

Yeah buddy!


----------



## dyna

Still waiting for John Ruiz :bart


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#12 Benny Leonard*










The greatest Jewish fighter of all times. Benny Leonard was a fantastic lightweight.
He is linked to Lennox Lewis in fate and destiny. Now how could that be? What do these two have in common? Lewis was a giant. Benny was quite small.Lewis was a Black Brit of Jamaican Descent, Leonard was a Jewish person from Eastern Europe. Lewis had a great jab. Benny's was all right.

Let me tell you why they are linked in fate and destiny. Now listen.
Both Lewis and Leonard's Mother played a vital role in their lives growing up. They raised and cared for them, they were the inspiration and light. When Benny Leonard was at the end of his career, his Mother told him to retire. He promised her he would. He honored her. The honor did not last long. Leonard went against his loving Mother's wishes and staged a comeback. He was tko6ed by FUTURE champion Jimmy McLarnin of the UK. An aging Eastern European legend was Tko6ed by a future champion from the UK because he went against his Mother's wishes.

Lennox Lewis meanwhile was the aging UK Legend who tko6ed a future champion FROM Eastern Europe and than listened to his Mother and retired as a WHH(Wealthy,Healthy,Happy) triple crown ATG.

How can we not see the connections? Both fighters ended their careers on a tko6. The spirits of Eastern Europe and the UK floated through their last fights. With different results for each man, but the same regions was represented. I am shocked that nobody picked up on this.

I could go on and on about how great Benny Leonard was. I could tell you about his resume. I could tell you about the wondrous set of skills that he carried with him. But why would I do that? I'll just be regurgitating things every TRUE boxing fan should already know.

What I just told you today, I'm pretty sure has never been told. We learn something new every day. I hope this is the new thing I taught you all.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#11 Prince Naseem Hamed*









The little dynamite with fists of thunder barely missed out on the top 10. If it wasn't for his loss against Barrerra, he would have taken that 10th spot. One of the most exciting fighters to ever grace this sport, Prince had it all. Granite chin, blinding speed,flashy style,brutal power, memorizing combinations, and a Heavyweight's personality in a featherweight's body. He was the definition of magnetic. You WANT to see him fight, not because you want to see him fight but because you want to SEE HIM FIGHT. That was his drawing power. He was an event. He transcended entertainment and he walked the walk.

Winning his first title against the highly touted Freddy Cruz in vicious stoppage fashion, the Prince went on a tear through the divisions. Tough man Ramírez was made to be not so tough against Naseem's rock hard fists, the vicious bull Robinson tamed by the most beautiful of matadors, Molina,Johnson,Hardy, one after the other fell to his onslaught. One after the other fell grasping and gasping for air that would not come. Butchering the tough Argentinian Cabrera was just a night's work for the Prince, Badillo never stood a chance. Stopping the amazing Vazquez and outboxing the Slickster McCullough just adds to his overwhelming resume. Ingle and Soto put up brave fights but was eventually solved by Naseem's ring intelligence and for lack of a better word 'grit'. Sadly nobody beats Father Time and Marco Antonio Barrera proved these words true yet again when he beat the Prince.

I often pondered how a Prime Naseem vs Barrera fight would have gone. Would Barrera had figured out those flashy combinations? Would he have managed to evade those lighting fast punches? How would he have done against Naseem's footwork and ring control? Would he have survived the pressure and onslaught of a younger Prince? We would never know. One thing is for certain, two things is for sure. Naseem was a HELL of a Prince and he was just one win away from being a King.


----------



## Kel

The prince wasn't that old in the Barrera fight


----------



## FelixTrinidad

This is not true. Fighters age very differently.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


----------



## PityTheFool

Does this mean my second favourite fighter of all times makes the top 10 Felix?

Wow! Barrera in the top 10.You make me feel like a proud father my boy!:good


----------



## dyna

Let's hope Ruiz is still in it :hey


----------



## FelixTrinidad

PityTheFool said:


> Does this mean my second favourite fighter of all times makes the top 10 Felix?
> 
> Wow! Barrera in the top 10.You make me feel like a proud father my boy!:good


Barrera's already been ranked. I spended a lot of time researching Barrera. He's a great fighter.
To me Barrera beating Naseem is the same as Khan beating Barrera. 
I wouldn't say Naseem was shot but he was definitely past prime.

Anyways Barrera is a fantastic fighter and gave us many great memories. True class.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> To me Barrera beating Naseem is the same as Khan beating Barrera.
> I wouldn't say Naseem was shot but he was definitely past prime.


Not even close to being the same thing


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> Not even close to being the same thing


:lol: Ok.

The Prince's prime was in 1997. He fought Barerra in 2001.
Barerra's prime was from 00-03. He fought Khan in 09.
Neither fighter was shot. Both were past prime. Maybe MAB was a bit more 'past prime' against Khan than the Prince was against him, but the fact remain. 
MAB did NOT fight the best version of Prince.
Khan did NOT fight the best version of MAB.


----------



## FloydPatterson

Just realized my boy was on this list, big ups Felix


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> :lol: Ok.
> 
> The Prince's prime was in 1997. He fought Barerra in 2001.
> Barerra's prime was from 00-03. He fought Khan in 09.
> Neither fighter was shot. Both were past prime. Maybe MAB was a bit more 'past prime' against Khan than the Prince was against him, but the fact remain.
> MAB did NOT fight the best version of Prince.
> Khan did NOT fight the best version of MAB.


Word, so Hamed's prime only lasted a year? And you don't see a difference between Hamed's form in 2001 compared to barrera in 09? I mean seriously?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> Word, *so Hamed's prime only lasted a year?* And you don't see a difference between Hamed's form in 2001 compared to barrera in 09? I mean seriously?


Why is this so shocking? Riddick Bowe's prime only lasted a year as well. He's still a great fighter and almost made my list. I have Bowe in the 104-106 range.
I never said Barrera was 'closer' to his prime against Khan than Hamed against Barrera.
I said the Hamed Barrera beat was NOT PRIME HAMED.


----------



## Zopilote

FelixTrinidad said:


> Why is this so shocking? Riddick Bowe's prime only lasted a year as well. He's still a great fighter and almost made my list. I have Bowe in the 104-106 range.
> I never said Barrera was 'closer' to his prime against Khan than Hamed against Barrera.
> I said the Hamed Barrera beat was NOT PRIME HAMED.


Won't argue with Hamed not being prime or not.

But the KHan comparison is not exactly that good, my friend.

Barrera actually put on a Boxing clinic against Hamed, outclassing him..While Trash Khan needed a headbutt causing a horrible cut on an already damaged Barrera, while having his personal paid off ref conviniently stopping the fight on the 5th round (when it should have been stopped waay sooner) to make sure Trash Khan could get the "win".


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> Why is this so shocking? Riddick Bowe's prime only lasted a year as well. He's still a great fighter and almost made my list. I have Bowe in the 104-106 range.
> I never said Barrera was 'closer' to his prime against Khan than Hamed against Barrera.
> I said the Hamed Barrera beat was NOT PRIME HAMED.


Riddick Bowe's prime lasted longer than a year you jack wagon.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Zopilote said:


> Won't argue with Hamed not being prime or not.
> 
> *But the KHan comparison is not exactly that good*, my friend.
> 
> Barrera actually put on a Boxing clinic against Hamed, outclassing him..While Trash Khan needed a headbutt causing a horrible cut on an already damaged Barrera, while having his personal paid off ref conviniently stopping the fight on the 5th round (when it should have been stopped waay sooner) to make sure Trash Khan could get the "win".


:rofl:hey


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> Riddick Bowe's prime lasted longer than a year you jack wagon.


No.. it did not rofl. His prime lasted the year of his Holyfield fight and after that he was past prime.
Name another performance after Holyfield I which showed an elite level ATG?
He was an elite level ATG against Holyfield in the first fight, if he never achieved that again.. that means his prime was over.

Dude.. do you like hate the Prince or what?
Hamed gave more to boxing than all your heroes ever did.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> No.. it did not rofl. His prime lasted the year of his Holyfield fight and after that he was past prime.
> Name another performance after Holyfield I which showed an elite level ATG?
> He was an elite level ATG against Holyfield in the first fight, if he never achieved that again.. that means his prime was over.
> 
> Dude.. do you like hate the Prince or what?
> Hamed gave more to boxing than all your heroes ever did.


Yeah sure, the Holyfield fight took a lot out of him, I'll give you that. I'm not even arguing that. but he was also "prime" for a number of fights before that. He was in his prime CONDITION that night. Still, his prime lasted longer than just 1 year, that's bullshit.

Do I hate Hamed? Nope, fun fighter to watch but Barrera basically beat Hamed at his best and would've beat any other version of Hamed as well. To compare that VERY CAPABLE version of Hamed to the Barrera that lost to Khan? atsch


----------



## Pedrin1787

Hamed at #11 ? WTF


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> Yeah sure, the Holyfield fight took a lot out of him, I'll give you that. I'm not even arguing that. but he was also "prime" for a number of fights before that. He was in his prime CONDITION that night. Still, his prime lasted longer than just 1 year, that's bullshit.
> 
> Do I hate Hamed? Nope, fun fighter to watch but Barrera basically beat Hamed at his best and would've beat any other version of Hamed as well. To compare that VERY CAPABLE version of Hamed to the Barrera that lost to Khan? atsch


Wrong. Bowe's prime lasted from Biggs to Holyfield I. That's around 1 year. His prime lasted one year.
How do we prove this? Easy. Bowe started looking like an ATG Talent from the Biggs fight till the end of Holyfield I.
He never looked as good as he did PRIOR to this stretch or AFTER this stretch. Ergo, video evidence proves that this is his prime.

As for your delusional ramblings in regards to the Prince being 'in his prime' against Barrera. No he was not. His prime ended after 97. He fought Barrera in 2001.. This isn't rocket science.

I bet you are one of these people who thinks Lewis was in his 'prime' against Tyson too.

But I respect you a lot, it's always fun debating with a fellow pugilist specialist.. even though I know the end result is me delivering a verbal TKO5.

Everything you said is opinion backed with very little evidence .Everything I say is also opinion, but backed with A LOT OF evidence. Ergo my opinions is worth more than yours.

An opinion is like a asshole, everyone have one.
But not everyone's asshole tastes the same.


----------



## The Wanderer

Felix, if there's one thing I love most about your list it's the consistency.

I mean, Camacho ranks in the top 15, higher than Leonard and Duran because he beat versions of them that were shot to shit, (Camacho barely slid by a Duran who had been a pro fighter for 28 years, or longer than Hamed had been alive by the time Hamed quit the sport) and then you turn around and have Hamed ranked almost 40 places higher than a guy who clowned him and made him look like a complete fucking amateur.

But then what would I expect from someone who thinks Henry Cooper belongs in the top 20 for knocking Ali on his butt for a couple of seconds and is sure that Cooper would have knocked him out and Ali would have been able to recover or come back without dastardly cheating on Dundee's part, and ranks heavyweights like Joe Louis and George Foreman far lower, despite them accomplishing much more impressive feats. I guess I should just be pleasantly surprised that Sonny Banks and Doug Jones aren't also in your top 10 heavyweights or something. :rolleyes


----------



## FelixTrinidad

* What is greatness to you?*

I realize that my list might not be 'appealing' to the sheep that exist in this current boxing media. True greatness is not defined by meaningless stats from 100 years ago, true greatness is not defined by newspaper writings or glorious praises lavished upon a fighter by men who know nothing about boxing. True greatness is measured by eye test,resume,Head to Head abilities, and historical impact. That is true greatness.
Henry Greb is a top 100 Fighter of all times. Greb is not even close to the greatest. The biggest issue with these sheep ranks that have so plagued the boxing world is that they refuse to admit the single biggest flaw in their logic upon analyzing fighters of the past.

Someone who seen Greb will OF COURSE say Greb is the 'greatest' fighter he's ever seen.. because he haven't yet seen Ali. Someone who have seen Greb will of COURSE say Greb was amazing and unbeatable because he haven't yet seen Prime Tyson or Prime Jones. Someone who seen Robinson will of COURSE say that Robinson is one of the most fantastic to ever do it because he haven't yet seen Calzaghe.

My list is not based on personal feelings or on sheep think. My list is not based on random ramblings of old men from 90 years ago. My list is not based on the list of others and what the majority thinks is 'proper'. I'm not a proper person, my list is not a 'proper' list. But I can guarantee you that it is the most accurate and the most truthful list you will ever read. I might not know how to break down a fight like Bogotazo, I might not know history like Theron or The Cobra. I might not be as passionate as Hands of Iron. I might not be as articulate and I might not write as beautifully as Mcgrain.

But I am something none of these posters are. I am the spirit of pugilism. My list comes from the heart and it comes from the very essence of what I feel is great. The following 10 fighters define that very essence. They are the 10 greatest fighters of humanity's greatest sport.


----------



## MadcapMaxie

Imma call the top 2 being 

1. Lennox Lewis
2. Ali Raymi

Felix if you don't have Marciano at some point I will be VERY dissappointed and may cry a little.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

MadcapMaxie said:


> Imma call the top 2 being
> 
> 1. Lennox Lewis
> 2. Ali Raymi
> 
> Felix if you don't have Marciano at some point I will be VERY dissappointed and may cry a little.


http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...Rocky-Marciano&p=895917&viewfull=1#post895917


----------



## PityTheFool

I trust you Felix.Hamed at 11 and SRL at 17(?) shows spirit and individuality.
McCallum better make that Top 10 though my friend,because I know for a fact there's only 9 spaces up for grabs.


----------



## dyna

Ruiz better make that top 10.


----------



## Theron

Freddie Steele in the top 10?


----------



## MadcapMaxie

FelixTrinidad said:


> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...Rocky-Marciano&p=895917&viewfull=1#post895917


How da fuck I miss that. Cheers Felix the Rock is worthy of top 15 :smile


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#10 Peter Jackson*










Known as the 'Black Prince', Jackson was one of the greatest heavyweights the Boxing World has ever seen. Born on the island of Saint Croix on 23 September 1860, Jackson was a fighter grown. He worked as a deck hand on a pirate ship and was known to have actually stopped a mutiny with his bare fists. Eye witness accounts said that he stopped the attempted murder of the captain by knocking out all 3 culprits and than knocked out the Captain when he attempted to have the culprits lynched.

Blessed with extraordinary stamina, two handed power, a vicious jab, and cunning ring maneuvers. Jackson was unstoppable on his way to the top of the Australian/British Scene. He went back and forth against knock out artist Tome Lees for 30 straight rounds before finally catching him with a short hook that send Lees sprawling on to the ground, and just like that a new Australian champion was born. The Black Prince went on to win what was than the highly regarded British Title by knocking out Jem Smith in the 2nd round. His accuracy and the sheer guile of his aggression left Smith confused and disoriented after a few exchanges in the opening minute and Smith never recovered.

Perhaps Jackson's greatest moment came in the draw against James Corbett. Shamelessly ducked by John L. Sullivan because Jackson was Black, Corbett never showed that level of cowardice and answered the challenger with a resounding roar. The two magnificent heavyweights went against each other for 61 rounds. Think back to Gatti-Ward. Now add 50 pounds to their frames. Now amplify their skills by 10x. Now amplify the rounds by 6x. Now amplify the brutality by 15x and you have Jackson-Corbett. The two gave their entire souls that night in a brutal orgy of violence and desire. The end result was a draw for neither one could continue. They simply collapsed under the weight of immensity that could barely be imagined.

Jackson finished his career at 99-3. He got the single most impressive win to loss to number of fights ratio in Boxing History. There are some fighters who won more but lost more as well. There are some fighters who lost less but won less. Jackson's 99-3 stands alone. He won the most and loss the least in correlation to the number of fights that he had. A mathematical triumph over any other stat.

When I think of Jackson, I often think of what Joe Louis could have been if he was blessed with a more sturdy chin, if he had more speed and stamina. The Prince was truly one of the most gifted fighters to grace our sport, the nod is given to him at number 10.


----------



## kf3

peter jackson turned down a title shot, first black hw to get a shot and he refused it. does this blatant duck mean corbett will be top 10 also?

now naz can be in the top 10 and your list becomes the best ever


----------



## FelixTrinidad

kf3 said:


> peter jackson turned down a title shot, *first black hw to get a shot and he refused it.* does this blatant duck mean corbett will be top 10 also?
> 
> now naz can be in the top 10 and your list becomes the best ever


Where is the proof in this? You do realize he was threatened by lynch mobs right?


----------



## kf3

FelixTrinidad said:


> Where is the proof in this? You do realize he was threatened by lynch mobs right?


yes i am well aware of all that, it was a crappy contract offer even if it wasn't in the south, but doesn't change the fact he refused his title shot. the proof is that everyone involved acknowledged it happened, since you know about the threats i'm assuming you know it happened already too.

also i am not at all convinced he would actually have been lynched, johnson wasn't that long after and his neck survived beating the white favourite more than once.

mostly i was just trying to get naz in the top 10


----------



## FelixTrinidad

The Wanderer said:


> Felix, if there's one thing I love most about your list it's the consistency.
> 
> I mean, Camacho ranks in the top 15, higher than Leonard and Duran because he beat versions of them that were shot to shit, (Camacho barely slid by a Duran who had been a pro fighter for 28 years, or longer than Hamed had been alive by the time Hamed quit the sport) and then you turn around and have Hamed ranked almost 40 places higher than a guy who clowned him and made him look like a complete fucking amateur.
> 
> But then what would I expect from someone who thinks *Henry Cooper belongs in the top 20 for knocking Ali on his butt for a couple of seconds and is sure that Cooper would have knocked him out and Ali would have been able to recover or come back without dastardly cheating on Dundee's part,* and ranks heavyweights like Joe Louis and George Foreman far lower, despite them accomplishing much more impressive feats. I guess I should just be pleasantly surprised that Sonny Banks and Doug Jones aren't also in your top 10 heavyweights or something. :rolleyes


 I love Ali as much as anyone, he is one of my idols. But he did cheat against Cooper, and he was on queer street from that KD. He was gone.

Joe Louis was a great fighter and is one of the GREATEST of all times as proven by the fact that he made my list, but he was completely dominated by both Schmeling and Marciano. It wasn't 'lucky punch' either, it was an all out beat down. This goes against him.


----------



## The Wanderer

FelixTrinidad said:


> I love Ali as much as anyone, he is one of my idols. But he did cheat against Cooper, and he was on queer street from that KD. He was gone.


Ali was definitely not together right after being hit, but he had a minute to recover, and fighters, including Ali, have certainly come back from worse. (Ali for example has said that he has no memory of the fight with Ernie Shavers after Shavers hit him with a monster shot in the 2nd round, yet he finished the fight on his feet and got the decision.)



> Joe Louis was a great fighter and is one of the GREATEST of all times as proven by the fact that he made my list, but he was completely dominated by both Schmeling and Marciano. It wasn't 'lucky punch' either, it was an all out beat down. This goes against him.


I don't know how you can count the Marciano fight against Joe, who'd been a pro almost 20 years at that point, and not count Cooper getting his ass kicked by Zora Foley, Floyd Patterson, and Ingemar Johannson. Doesn't splitting fights with Joe Bygraves, or Joe Erskine count against Cooper? Losing to Amos Johnson and Peter Bates don't take away from his record? But losing to Rocky Marciano, that's terrible. Don't know how Joe even made it to the top 100 after that sin. :rolleyes

How about Camacho getting his ass beat unmercifully by Chavez in his prime? Why does that leave Chavez in the 80s and Camacho at 13? Why is Pacquiao 25 places below Barrera despite slapping Marco from one side of the ring to the other then?

I've seen some strange ass lists and rankings in my time, but I usually don't say anything if it's at least consistent. Some guys rate defense higher, some guys love power, some love speed and skills and it biases them. But this looks more like just writing down names on a page as they come to you, without even any sort of unifying criteria.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

The Wanderer said:


> Ali was definitely not together right after being hit, but he had a minute to recover, and fighters, including Ali, have certainly come back from worse. (Ali for example has said that he has no memory of the fight with Ernie Shavers after Shavers hit him with a monster shot in the 2nd round, yet he finished the fight on his feet and got the decision.)
> 
> I don't know how you can count the Marciano fight against Joe, who'd been a pro almost 20 years at that point, and not count Cooper getting his ass kicked by Zora Foley, Floyd Patterson, and Ingemar Johannson. Doesn't splitting fights with Joe Bygraves, or Joe Erskine count against Cooper? Losing to Amos Johnson and Peter Bates don't take away from his record? But losing to Rocky Marciano, that's terrible. Don't know how Joe even made it to the top 100 after that sin. :rolleyes
> 
> How about Camacho getting his ass beat unmercifully by Chavez in his prime? Why does that leave Chavez in the 80s and Camacho at 13? Why is Pacquiao 25 places below Barrera despite slapping Marco from one side of the ring to the other then?
> 
> I've seen some strange ass lists and rankings in my time, but I usually don't say anything if it's at least consistent. Some guys rate defense higher, some guys love power, some love speed and skills and it biases them. But this looks more like just writing down names on a page as they come to you, without even any sort of unifying criteria.


 Look I respect your opinions but the Cooper-Ali incident wasn't a case of 'maybe' it's a case of cheating. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I'm not saying Ali would have gotten knocked out in the next round if he didn't use smelling salt. I'm saying that he already lost just by using smelling salt.
Smelling salt was illegal in that fight. You get it? It doesn't matter if Ali could have won the fight or not without the salt. That's totally irrelevant. He used an illegal substance and should have lost on the spot because he used something that was not allowed. It should have been a Cooper win and I count it that way.


----------



## The Wanderer

And what I was saying is that even if you count it as a win, it outranks all the negatives of Cooper's career? Makes him rank above fighters with dozens of notable wins who weren't beat by nobodies, faded contenders, and has beens?

I gotta respect the effort that went into making the list, I wouldn't because it's too much work, and not taking it too seriously there have been some really fun to read things in here, but I felt the Camacho and Cooper rankings, and the attempts to justify them, were so gratuitously wrong I had to question them.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

The Wanderer said:


> And what I was saying is that even if you count it as a win, it outranks all the negatives of Cooper's career? Makes him rank above fighters with dozens of notable wins who weren't beat by nobodies, faded contenders, and has beens?


It sort of does. Roberto Duran got his ass kicked every time he stepped up to true elite level competition within his tier. The ONLY exception was Leonard I. I mean if you really look at Duran's career, he lost against every ATG he ever faced with the exception of Leonard I. I think he's like 1-7 against ATG'S. That's a pretty bad record. But that Leonard I win made him a top 100 fighter of all times.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

The Wanderer said:


> And what I was saying is that even if you count it as a win, it outranks all the negatives of Cooper's career? Makes him rank above fighters with dozens of notable wins who weren't beat by nobodies, faded contenders, and has beens?
> 
> *I gotta respect the effort that went into making the list, I wouldn't because it's too much work, and not taking it too seriously there have been some really fun to read things in here, but I felt the Camacho and Cooper rankings, and the attempts to justify them, were so gratuitously wrong I had to question them.*


 Thank you for the kind words and I accept your criticism. This list isn't for everybody, and I do realize Hector along with Henry are two wildcards among a otherwise impeccable and brilliant list. I guess I put a bit too much personal feeling into it when ranking them, but every list will have 1-2 'favorites' and that goes for any historian. This list isn't flawless, no list ever is. I'm learning from my own list and I feel like my boxing knowledge has multiplied since I first started this project.


----------



## The Wanderer

FelixTrinidad said:


> It sort of does. Roberto Duran got his ass kicked every time he stepped up to true elite level competition within his tier. The ONLY exception was Leonard I. I mean if you really look at Duran's career, he lost against every ATG he ever faced with the exception of Leonard I. I think he's like 1-7 against ATG'S. That's a pretty bad record. But that Leonard I win made him a top 100 fighter of all times.


Duran was also older, smaller, and started earlier than any of the ATGs he faced. By the time he fought Leonard, he already had more fights than any of the other fab 4 would in their entire careers. You don't think that deserves some consideration? You can talk about Bowe's prime only lasting a year but fault other people for losses that happened after decades of ring wear?

If Pacquiao lost to Adonis Stevenson tomorrow would that make Adonis' career better than Pacquiao's? If not, then, other than the difference in weight classes, how is it different from Duran vs Benitez or Hagler?


----------



## The Wanderer

FelixTrinidad said:


> Thank you for the kind words and I accept your criticism. This list isn't for everybody, and I do realize Hector along with Henry are two wildcards among a otherwise impeccable and brilliant list. *I guess I put a bit too much personal feeling into it when ranking them, but every list will have 1-2 'favorites' and that goes for any historian. This list isn't flawless, no list ever is. I'm learning from my own list and I feel like my boxing knowledge has multiplied since I first started this project*.


Too true. Even doing top 10s, or ranking a single category like heavyweight, I sometimes wind up looking at my picks and wind up feeling differently, or surprise myself as I look up the records of certain fighters and their opposition, check out the fights, and see just how things went down. I've discovered a lot of fighters that I never heard of and just seemed like another random name on an ATG's record were surprisingly good fighters who got made to look bad by who they were fighting. There are many similar cases for every fighter, where they have wins that get completely overlooked until you start investigating those names. Afterward you start wondering why it isn't a bigger deal.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

The Wanderer said:


> Duran was also older, smaller, and started earlier than any of the ATGs he faced. By the time he fought Leonard, he already had more fights than any of the other fab 4 would in their entire careers. You don't think that deserves some consideration? You can talk about Bowe's prime only lasting a year but fault other people for losses that happened after decades of ring wear?
> 
> *If Pacquiao lost to Adonis Stevenson tomorrow would that make Adonis' career better than Pacquiao's? If not, then, other than the difference in weight classes, how is it different from Duran vs Benitez or Hagler?*


A much better example would be if a 2012 Pacquaio(slightly past prime but still good) lost to a 154 Pounder. And in that case, I will count it against Pacquaio. Pacquaio losing against Stevenson would be like Duran losing against Saad Muhammad.The physical disadvantages Duran had against Benitez(if any) and Hagler can't even be compared to Pacquaio/Stevenson. Come on now.


----------



## The Wanderer

Yeah, I was definitely exaggerating for effect. Still, for Duran to start off as a 120 pounder and have much of any success at 154 and 160 is pretty astonishing for the history of the sport. There's a reason why it makes some people consider Armstrong as a strong contender for p4p #1 , despite the relatively short time he was successful, and despite how his career didn't start as anything special.

There aren't too many guys who start around 120 that I'd say I'm disappointed in when they can't beat a Jr. Middle or Middleweight champion, let alone someone in their prime and an ATG at that weight. Can't say there's anyone active at lightweight that I can think of who I'd hold it against if he couldn't beat guys like Canelo or Lara, let alone Wilfredo Benitez or Tommy Hearns.

Some people definitely overrate Duran, but some people definitely underrate him too, and because of standards they wouldn't hold anyone else to.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#9 Ricardo Lopez*










Two fighters have dominated the Minimumweight Division over the last 30 years. Ricardo Lopez and Ali Raymi. The difference in that Lopez did it in such a fashion and for such a long period of time, his greatness dwarfs that of Raymi's in the modern sense. Technically.
The brilliant and bountiful Lopez defended his WBC Title a record 21 times. Perhaps the most fantastic fighter ever caught on tape, Lopez made everything look easy and mundane. Someone once said that "Roy Jones Jr looks like he was moving in hyper speed while everyone else was in normal speed. Floyd Mayweather looks like he is moving in normal speed while everyone else is moving in slow motion. Ricardo Lopez looks like he is moving in hyper speed while everyone else is moving in slow motion." Finishing his career at a shocking 51-0, Lopez was never really challenged and retired as one of the most accomplished fighters to ever grace the sport.

Perhaps one of Lopez's greatest feats lays in his utter decimation of different Nations throughout his career. Mexico have always produced tough and fearless warriors at the lower weights. Lopez knew this and he started his career in Mexico for this very purpose. To challenge himself against Mexico's toughest. He rammed through 26 consecutive Mexicans on route to a easy 26-0. He than went on to the Land of the Rising Sun and beat up back to back Japanese fighters, took a boat, and ended up in South Korea where he mastered Kyung-Yun Lee. He decided to go to a much poorer Asian country next because 'rough places make rough fighters'.... Pretty Boy Lucas fell without putting up much of a fight. After a short stint in Thailand, Lopez went on to fight in the modern jewel that is Taiwan. He went toe to toe against Rocky Lin and emerged victorious once again. Flying across the oceans to land in Columbia, Lopez brought his road warrior mentality with him and beat up Columbia's finest in Kermin Guardia. Blazing hand speed and a granite chin wasn't enough to overcome Lopez's impeccable defense,lightning combinations, and two fist power.

The brilliant Nicawagagaagagren Rosendo Alvarez put up two ATG Level performances but was only able to squeak out a draw and a SD Lost as the result. Will Grigsby showed heart and grit in a losing effort and was added to the very long list of victims Lopez gathered.

Ricardo Lopez is the only fighter to have literally remain undefeated throughout his entire life. He never lost as an amateur, and he never lost as a pro. Perhaps the lack of appreciation comes from the fact he fought in a Division where there lays no real interest. Perhaps if he had moved up to higher weights, he might have gained more acclaim. But we can not judge based on size, we must judge based on strength of resume, the eye test, and longevity. In those criteria, Lopez shines brighter than all but 8 others. Lopez might not have been the greatest, but he's about as close as Mexico ever got to that cherished number one spot.


----------



## Zopilote

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#9 Ricardo Lopez*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two fighters have dominated the Minimumweight Division over the last 30 years. Ricardo Lopez and Ali Raymi. The difference in that Lopez did it in such a fashion and for such a long period of time, his greatness dwarfs that of Raymi's in the modern sense. Technically.
> The brilliant and bountiful Lopez defended his WBC Title a record 21 times. Perhaps the most fantastic fighter ever caught on tape, Lopez made everything look easy and mundane. Someone once said that "Roy Jones Jr looks like he was moving in hyper speed while everyone else was in normal speed. Floyd Mayweather looks like he is moving in normal speed while everyone else is moving in slow motion. Ricardo Lopez looks like he is moving in hyper speed while everyone else is moving in slow motion." Finishing his career at a shocking 51-0, Lopez was never really challenged and retired as one of the most accomplished fighters to ever grace the sport.
> 
> Perhaps one of Lopez's greatest feats lays in his utter decimation of different Nations throughout his career. Mexico have always produced tough and fearless warriors at the lower weights. Lopez knew this and he started his career in Mexico for this very purpose. To challenge himself against Mexico's toughest. He rammed through 26 consecutive Mexicans on route to a easy 26-0. He than went on to the Land of the Rising Sun and beat up back to back Japanese fighters, took a boat, and ended up in South Korea where he mastered Kyung-Yun Lee. He decided to go to a much poorer Asian country next because 'rough places make rough fighters'.... Pretty Boy Lucas fell without putting up much of a fight. After a short stint in Thailand, Lopez went on to fight in the modern jewel that is Taiwan. He went toe to toe against Rocky Lin and emerged victorious once again. Flying across the oceans to land in Columbia, Lopez brought his road warrior mentality with him and beat up Columbia's finest in Kermin Guardia. Blazing hand speed and a granite chin wasn't enough to overcome Lopez's impeccable defense,lightning combinations, and two fist power.
> 
> The brilliant Nicawagagaagagren Rosendo Alvarez put up two ATG Level performances but was only able to squeak out a draw and a SD Lost as the result. Will Grigsby showed heart and grit in a losing effort and was added to the very long list of victims Lopez gathered.
> 
> Ricardo Lopez is the only fighter to have literally remain undefeated throughout his entire life. He never lost as an amateur, and he never lost as a pro. Perhaps the lack of appreciation comes from the fact he fought in a Division where there lays no real interest. Perhaps if he had moved up to higher weights, he might have gained more acclaim. But we can not judge based on size, we must judge based on strength of resume, the eye test, and longevity. In those criteria, Lopez shines brighter than all but 8 others. Lopez might not have been the greatest, but he's about as close as Mexico ever got to that cherished number one spot.


 @Flea Man

:yep


----------



## LittleRed

Truth. Was Khaosai Galaxy ranked yet?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

LittleRed said:


> Truth. Was Khaosai Galaxy ranked yet?


Who the Hell is Khaosai Galaxy? Lol.. sounds like a Comic book super hero.
Is he any good?


----------



## Flea Man

Zopilote said:


> @Flea Man
> 
> :yep


The fact he says 'we must judge based on strength of resume' proves he has no clue what he's talking about.

I hope Felix dies of a brain tumour.


----------



## Flea Man

FelixTrinidad said:


> Who the Hell is Khaosai Galaxy? Lol.. sounds like a Comic book super hero.
> Is he any good?


How can you compile a list of 'greatest fighters' if you don't know fuck all about boxing history? You soppy cunt.


----------



## Flea Man

FelixTrinidad said:


> It sort of does. Roberto Duran got his ass kicked every time he stepped up to true elite level competition within his tier. The ONLY exception was Leonard I. I mean if you really look at Duran's career, he lost against every ATG he ever faced with the exception of Leonard I. I think he's like 1-7 against ATG'S. That's a pretty bad record. But that Leonard I win made him a top 100 fighter of all times.


What about Ernesto Marcel? You have no clue about the history of boxing and therefore your 'countdown' is utterly without merit.


----------



## Hands of Iron

Flea Man said:


> What about Ernesto Marcel? You have no clue about the history of boxing and therefore your 'countdown' is utterly without merit.


:lol:

This was my favorite entry:



FelixTrinidad said:


> *#28 Guillermo Rigondeaux*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do I justify a seemingly unjustifiable entry on a otherwise impeccable list? My eye test and my gut feelings contribute to Rigondeaux being so high up among a elite gathering of great pugilists. I have watched every single Rigondeaux fight twenty times. I have memorized his every facet of brilliance, his nano second movments, his twitch and blinks, his trap settings and his counters. I have imprinted him into my conscience and rarely have I seen such magnificent amagreatfantasticism.
> 
> What the casual sportswriter call boring, I call electrifying. What they call running, I call fighting off the back foot. What they call crowd displeasing, I call CROWD PLEASING. I don't expect the people to embrace Rigondeaux like I have, I don't expect these so called sickening 'boxing fans' to appreciate Rigondeaux like I do.
> 
> Maybe the casuals are blind to the Mike Tyson like aura Rigo currently possesses. Maybe their eyes just aren't trained to see the savagery Duran like pressure he put forth. Maybe their puny intelligence refuse to admit Rigo's cautious boxing is actually slugging at the highest level. Maybe they just hate dwarfs. Or maybe they just can't admit to the fact we got a modern fighter so good .... he has become more than good. He has become great.


----------



## Flea Man

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> This was my favorite entry:


Pretty good trolling actually, I take my negative comments back, I just thought he was an idiot.


----------



## Lester1583

FelixTrinidad said:


> Who the Hell is Khaosai Galaxy? Lol.. sounds like a Comic book super hero.
> Is he any good?


The most destructive fighter to ever walk the earth.


----------



## Flea Man

Lester1583 said:


> The most destructive fighter to ever walk the earth.


Shut it.


----------



## dyna

Flea Man said:


> The fact he says 'we must judge based on strength of resume' proves he has no clue what he's talking about.
> 
> I hope Felix dies of a brain tumour.


First thought that crossed my mind when I read the title was you :lol:

Felix is just comic relief, don't get all winded up :lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad

dyna said:


> First thought that crossed my mind when I read the title was you :lol:
> 
> Felix is just *comic relief*, don't get all winded up :lol:


 Perhaps, but than why would I include all the poems(most of which actually made sense and had decent flow) and there is a LARGE amount of fighters on this list who are ATG'S in ANYONE'S books.. not just mine.......................

Anyways, thanks for support. This list is how I really feel and regardless of weather or not it will go down in history, I can say I tried my best to create a ranking of what I feel is the 100 greatest members of the greatest sport on Earth.


----------



## Flea Man

dyna said:


> First thought that crossed my mind when I read the title was you :lol:
> 
> Felix is just comic relief, don't get all winded up :lol:


Yeah, sorry I thought he was genuine. An idiot, but genuine.


----------



## Hands of Iron

Flea Man said:


> What about Ernesto Marcel?


Reminds me of a quote from Lora



> I'd rather take away Duran's talent than his best win. The man was a cunt and we'd have been better off seeing him beat into the ground by Marcel and Buchanan.
> 
> No top ten for him then.


----------



## Trash Bags

I must applaud you, Felix. I may not agree with some of your entries, but it takes hard work and dedication to compile a list with a hundred names on it. Good job, man! You're obviously a true fan of the sport.


----------



## PityTheFool

Finito at number 9.One of my all time favourites and well deserving of his eight places above SRL.
This is a thread that just keeps giving.


----------



## Flea Man

PityTheFool said:


> Finito at number 9.One of my all time favourites and well deserving of his eight places above SRL.
> This is a thread that just keeps giving.


I hope I'm reading this correctly as a joke?


----------



## dyna

Flea Man said:


> I hope I'm reading this correctly as a joke?


:lol:

It's a fact that Finito is one of ten best men to have ever walked on Earth.
Style > substance :yep

(Ofcourse he's joking)


----------



## turbotime

:lol: It took Ricardo Lopez being top 10 to bring Flea outta hiding.


----------



## Flea Man

turbotime said:


> :lol: It took Ricardo Lopez being top 10 to bring Flea outta hiding.


I've been around! Just not in the WBF


----------



## turbotime

Flea Man said:


> I've been around! Just not in the WBF


:lol: Good to have you back my brother ! This thread is worth a read through trust me :yep


----------



## Flea Man

turbotime said:


> :lol: Good to have you back my brother ! This thread is worth a read through trust me :yep


I will if I get the time. Any mad placings?


----------



## turbotime

Flea Man said:


> I will if I get the time. Any mad placings?


Lopez at #9 bugged me :lol:

Do it for the poems, they are legit.


----------



## PityTheFool

Flea Man said:


> I hope I'm reading this correctly as a joke?


You need to have a read through the whole thread mate.
It would raise a smile at a child's funeral.You need to understand that Felix has a special place in our hearts here and this thread is a perfect example of why.:good


----------



## Flea Man

PityTheFool said:


> It would raise a smile at a child's funeral


:rofl


----------



## LittleRed

FelixTrinidad said:


> Who the Hell is Khaosai Galaxy? Lol.. sounds like a Comic book super hero.
> Is he any good?


Look up a highlight. The Thai Tyson but unlike Tyson he never lost focus. 7 year reign, 19 defenses. 49-1. The most physically gifted little guy who ever lived. The greatest fighter, regardless of martial art, that Asia produced. He would fit well in the top 10. Maybe even top 5.


----------



## dyna

Flea Man normal mode: Nicest person on here.
Flea Man when Finito* gets mentioned: Cereal killer with no remorse, baddest dude around.

*God


----------



## turbotime

tommygun711 said:


> Hagler was a small middleweight who had no business fighting at LHW.


Nah. Napoles was a small middleweight.


----------



## Flea Man

LittleRed said:


> Look up a highlight. The Thai Tyson but unlike Tyson he never lost focus. 7 year reign, 19 defenses. 49-1. The most physically gifted little guy who ever lived. The greatest fighter, regardless of martial art, that Asia produced. He would fit well in the top 10. Maybe even top 5.


Shut it. I ain't biting.

Bish.


----------



## Flea Man

dyna said:


> Flea Man normal mode: Nicest person on here.
> Flea Man when Finito* gets mentioned: Cereal killer with no remorse, baddest dude around.
> 
> *God


I deny that I have ever killed a box of Golden Grahams.


----------



## Flea Man

I know you guys are kidding but to the uninitiated I do love Ricardo Lopez.

He just ain't that great.


----------



## Lester1583

LittleRed said:


> Look up a highlight. The Thai Tyson but unlike Tyson he never lost focus. 7 year reign, 19 defenses. 49-1. The most physically gifted little guy who ever lived. The greatest fighter, regardless of martial art, that Asia produced. He would fit well in the top 10. Maybe even top 5.


Brutally avenged his only loss (to a much bigger fighter) which was the most blatant robbery in Asian boxing history.

Only 3 of his title fights went the full distance - those 3 survivors ran so fast they made Usain Bolt look like Valuev.

For years wanted to unify titles but has been ducked shamelessly by other champions.

Was basically a two-division champion - he just let his weaker brother hold the bantam title while Khaosai was busy destroying ATG after ATG in one of the talent richest weight classes ever.

Great fighter with big power but even bigger heart.


----------



## Flea Man

Lester1583 said:


> Brutally avenged his only loss (to a much bigger fighter) which was the most blatant robbery in Asian boxing history.
> 
> Only 3 of his title fights went the full distance - those 3 survivors ran so fast they made Usain Bolt look like Valuev.
> 
> For years wanted to unify titles but has been ducked shamelessly by other champions.
> 
> Was basically a two-division champion - he just let his weaker brother hold the bantam title while Khasaoi was busy destroying ATG after ATG in one of the talent richest weight classes ever.
> 
> Great fighter with big power but even bigger heart.


Die.


----------



## tommygun711

turbotime said:


> Nah. Napoles was a small middleweight.


ehh im not really going to debate it since you're late


----------



## turbotime

tommygun711 said:


> ehh im not really going to debate it since you're right


Mhm.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

LittleRed said:


> Look up a highlight. The Thai Tyson but unlike Tyson he never lost focus. 7 year reign, 19 defenses. 49-1. The most physically gifted little guy who ever lived. The greatest fighter, regardless of martial art, that Asia produced. He would fit well in the top 10. Maybe even top 5.


 Thank you so much for introducing this fighter to me. I have been watching his fights and reading up on him over the last few hours. This guy is surreal. That left hand gotta be the hardest left hand in the history of boxing . I don't think any South Paw hit harder than he did. Fucking brutal. He's literally painting violence and mayhem in the ring with his fists.


----------



## Lester1583

FelixTrinidad said:


> This guy is surreal. That left hand gotta be the hardest left hand in the history of boxing . I don't think any South Paw hit harder than he did. Fucking brutal. He's literally painting violence and mayhem in the ring with his fists.


Excellent observations, Felix.


----------



## Flea Man

Lester1583 said:


> Excellent observations, Felix.


Run into traffic bish.


----------



## Lester1583

Flea Man said:


> Run into traffic


Relax, Flea. You're too tense.

Maybe some music might help ya?


----------



## MadcapMaxie

Lester1583 said:


> Relax, Flea. You're too tense.
> 
> Maybe some music might help ya?


:rofl what?! Khaosai is a man of many talents.


----------



## Shocked Quartz

Lester1583 said:


> Relax, Flea. You're too tense.
> 
> Maybe some music might help ya?


As usual, @Flea Man doesn't have a clue what he's talking about when it comes to lighter weight fighters of a certain vintage (post bronze age). This guy was the truth. Not only was he super fly, you'd have to be super high not to have him in the P4P top 10 of all time. Greatest little man that ever lived. When he was hitting people smack hard in the face it was like he had red hot woks on the end of his arms rather than gloves.

It was like he was created by Capcom for a beat 'em up, but was too overpowered, so they made him into a real life boxer, Weird Science style.

Say he'd have fought someone like Miguel Canto, he'd have hit Canto so hard he would probably never have been able to walk again. Word is that the loss on his record to Sak Galaxy is because they got the two of them mixed up.


----------



## Flea Man

Shocked Quartz said:


> As usual, @Flea Man doesn't have a clue what he's talking about when it comes to lighter weight fighters of a certain vintage (post bronze age). This guy was the truth. Not only was he super fly, you'd have to be super high not to have him in the P4P top 10 of all time. Greatest little man that ever lived. When he was hitting people smack hard in the face it was like he had red hot woks on the end of his arms rather than gloves.
> 
> It was like he was created by Capcom for a beat 'em up, but was too overpowered, so they made him into a real life boxer, Weird Science style.
> 
> Say he'd have fought someone like Miguel Canto, he'd have hit Canto so hard he would probably never have been able to walk again. Word is that the loss on his record to Sak Galaxy is because they got the two of them mixed up.


Why does everyone always troll me (where is the crying emoticon)?

All jokes aside, Kongtoranee showed that Canto would've ran rings around Khaosai, despite being a small fly with no punch (which Kong DID have admittedly)


----------



## Flea Man

Khaosai is nowhere near as good a singer as Samart Payakaroon though.


----------



## Flea Man

Lester1583 said:


> Relax, Flea. You're too tense.
> 
> Maybe some music might help ya?


Hilarious post. Love you.


----------



## turbotime

Lester1583 said:


> Barely cleaned out the corpses of one of the weakestt eras in history.
> 
> Yaqui was shot, Gregory drained, M.Johnson was a feather fister, E.Davis beat him.
> 
> The rest are unknowns.
> 
> He's #7 on my list.
> 
> Right below Joey DeGrandis.
> 
> Spinks was a poor man's Rocchigiani.
> 
> Robbery.
> 
> Blatant robbery.
> 
> Amazingly horrible career.
> 
> Spinks is not even a top 15 at light heavy.





Hands of Iron said:


> Shut up Lester :lol:
> 
> Holmes did win the second fight though.


:lol: aces


----------



## Hands of Iron

turbotime said:


> :lol: aces


Lester is seriously one of my favorite guys on here, unbelievably funny if you catch his references and sometimes even I don't even know what the fuck he's on about. :rofl He rolls with my passionate, exaggerated half-trolling really well. Next to possibly only you.


----------



## turbotime

Lester1583 said:


> Barely cleaned out the corpses of one of the weakestt eras in history.
> 
> Yaqui was shot, Gregory drained, M.Johnson was a feather fister, E.Davis beat him.
> 
> The rest are unknowns.
> 
> He's #7 on my list.
> 
> Right below Joey DeGrandis.
> 
> Spinks was a poor man's Rocchigiani.
> 
> Robbery.
> 
> Blatant robbery.
> 
> Amazingly horrible career.
> 
> Spinks is not even a top 15 at light heavy.





Hands of Iron said:


> Lester is seriously one of my favorite guys on here, unbelievably funny if you catch his references and sometimes even I don't even know what the fuck he's on about. :rofl He rolls with my passionate, exaggerated half-trolling really well. Next to possibly only you.


:smug you sweetheart

Guys like Lester and bokaj are needed here more.


----------



## Pedderrs

Cocks are out.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#8 Hasim Rahman*









Black Lion stalker of the Plain.
American Heroes and legends he slain.
Fear evident in their shivers and cries.
Who shall fight this beast?Not I! Not I!
He hunts and roars, Afro Warriors stood still.
British Lion grew fat and too lazy to kill.
Along came one Maryland Boy.
African-American bright smile and coy.
He vowed vengeance for his slain brothers.
He knew that it was up to him, he had no others.
He readied his rifle and he muttered a prayer.
With a shout he charged right into the lion's lair.
The boy took aim and the bullet flew straight.
The Great Lion dodged but a half second too late.
The monster falls dead, boy becomes legend and lore.
America was FREE! Young men can fight once more!
This was Rahman's day, he showed the world he had what it takes.
Celebrations,feasts,but wait.. the lion awakes................


----------



## Kurushi

Hey, @FelixTrinidad. You got any acrostics?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Kurushi said:


> Hey, @FelixTrinidad. You got any acrostics?


Ya.. I saved that one for Muhammad Ali.


----------



## Kurushi

Carl was the guy who tried to convince me that skill could take a back-seat to heart
and he succeeded
rarely do I see warriors rise up above the gifted
lo and behold Froch is there
fighting from a depth that I wish I could recognise
reaching for a height I wish I could aspire to
one man
coming from behind
he wins, inexcplicably


----------



## Lester1583

Hands of Iron said:


> Or LaPorte actually for that matter tbh.





Lester1583 said:


> Been ages since I watched it but if I remember correctly the tank-like Laporte made Azumah run like a bitch:bbb


Just rewatched it.

Laporte was strong as hell - you can almost smell Azumah's fear.

As as soon as Azumah tasted Laporte's power (Laporte rocked Nelson early in the first round) he knew Laporte was too much of a man for him to handle and switched to jab and box tactics.

Nelson pulled a Klitchko basically.:verysad


----------



## PityTheFool

The Rock at #8 .Brilliant!
You'd have more chance of winning the lottery jackpot three times in a year than you would have of predicting this list.
Genius.


----------



## Trash Bags

wow...


----------



## Flea Man

turbotime said:


> :smug you sweetheart
> 
> Guys like Lester and bokaj are needed here more.


I won't bother then. If Lester is all you need :-(

Where da fuck is Bokaj by the way?!?! Love that guy.
@Pedderrs is one of my faves.


----------



## turbotime

Flea Man said:


> I won't bother then. If Lester is all you need :-(
> 
> Where da fuck is Bokaj by the way?!?! Love that guy.
> 
> @Pedderrs is one of my faves.


:lol: we mentioned you countless times over the months and not once did it get acknowledged

Cunt


----------



## dyna

So is Ruiz still in the race?
After all he did beat Rahman.


----------



## Leftsmash

dyna said:


> So is Ruiz still in the race?
> After all he did beat Rahman.


I'm eagerly awaiting the entry.


----------



## On the Money

Whose #1 Frank Bruno? atsch


----------



## Pedderrs

Flea Man said:


> I won't bother then. If Lester is all you need :-(
> 
> Where da fuck is Bokaj by the way?!?! Love that guy.
> 
> @Pedderrs is one of my faves.


Thanks Flea.

Did those DVDs arrive? I sent them off ages ago.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

For comparison's sake this is Mcgrain's list up to the 8 spot.

*Mcgrain's top 100 (100-8)*
08 - Joe Gans
09 - Joe Louis
10 - Roberto Duran.
11 - Benny Leonard
12 - Mickey Walker
13 - Willie Pep
14 - Barney Ross
15 - Archie Moore
16 - Ray Leonard
17 - George Dixon
18 - Terry McGovern
19 - Packey McFarland
20 - Pernell Whitaker
21 - Tony Canzoneri
22 - Jimmy McLarnin
23 - Sandy Saddler
24 - Stanley Ketchel
25 - Charley Burley
26 - Holman Williams
27 - Billy Conn
28 - Gene Tunney
29 - Roy Jones
30 - Joe Walcott
31 - Carlos Monzon
32 - Jimmy Wilde
33 - Eder Jofre
34 - Marvin Hagler
35 - Julio Cesar Chavez
36 - Tommy Gibbons
37 - Kid Gavilan
38 - Jack Britton
39 - Emile Griffith
40 - Jose Napoles
41 - Alexis Arguello
42 - Michael Spinks
43 - Tommy Loughran
44 - Thomas Hearns
45 - Jimmy Bivins
46 - Ike Williams
47 - Floyd Mayweather
48 - Manny Pacquiao
49 - Tommy Ryan
50 - Jack Dillon
51 - Bernard Hopkins
52 - Carlos Ortiz
53 - Fighting Harada
54 - Ruben Olivares
55 - Evander Holyfield
56 - Young Corbett III
57 - Mike Gibbons
58 - Ted Kid Lewis
59 - Freddie Welsh
60 - Freddie Steele
61 - Lou Ambers
62 - Salvador Sanchez
63 - Wilfredo Gomez
64 - Vicente Saldivar
65 - Rocky Marciano 
66 - Abe Attell
67 - Manuel Ortiz
68 - Harold Johnson
69 - Dick Tiger
70 - Luis Manuel Rodriguez
71 - Carmen Basilio
72 - Carlos Zarate
73 - Miguel Canto
74 - Oscar De La Hoya
75 - Azumah Nelson
76 - Mike McCallum
77 - Lary Holmes
78 - Bob Foster
79 - Teddy Yarosz
80 - Jim Driscoll
81 - Panama Al Brown
82 - Pascual Perez
83 - Lloyd Marshall
84 - Jake LaMotta
85 - Juan Manuel Marquez
86 - Wilfred Benitez
87 - Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
88 - Erik Morales
89 - Marco Antonio Barrera
90 - Young Griffo
91 - Fritzie Zivic
92 - Joe Frazier
93 - Pete Herman
94 - Lennox Lewis
95 - Jack "Kid" Berg
96 - Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
97 - James Toney
98 - Nicolino Locche
99 - Jung Koo Chang
100-George Foreman

*Felix's top 100(100-8)*
#8 Hasim Rahman
#9 Ricardo Lopez
#10 Peter Jackson
#11 Prince Naseem Hamed
#12 Benny Leonard
#13 Héctor Camacho
#14 Mike Mccallum
#15 Rocky Marciano
#16 Henry Cooper
#17 Dariusz Michalczewski
#18 Len Wickwar
#19 Sugar Ray Leonard
#20 Salvador Sanchez
#21 Tommy Hearns
#22 Mike Tyson 3rd Edition
#23 Sugar Ray Robinson
#24 Nicolino Locche
#25 Marvin Hagler
#26 Jack Broughton
#27 Sam Langford
#28 Guillermo Rigondeaux
#29 David Tua
#30 Sonny Liston
#31 Aaron Pryor
#32 Mike Tyson(2nd Edition)
#34 #33
Max Schmeling and Joe Louis
#36 #35
Chris Eubank and Nigel Benn
#37 Henry Armstrong
#38 Joe Calzaghe
#39 Carlos Monzon
#40 Joe Frazier
#41 Felix Sturm
#42 Sandy Saddler
#43 Michael Spinks
#44 Charley Burley
#45 Oscar De La Hoya
#48, #47,#46
Morales,Barrera,Marquez
#49 Jermain Taylor
#50 Felix Trinidad
#51 Wifred Benitez
#53 #52 Lamont Brewster and Sergei Liakhovich
#54 James Figg
#55 Floyd Patterson
#56 Joe Gans
#57 Jack Johnson
#58 George Foreman
#59 Igor Vysotsky
#60 Oliver Mccall
#61 Bernard Hopkins
#62 Chad Dawson
#63 Mike Tyson(1st Edition)
#64 Wladimir Klitshcko
#65 'Irish' Andre Ward
#66 Henry Greb
#67 Willie Pep
#68 Tommy Morrison
#69 George
#70 Matthew Saad Muhammad
#71 Antonio Margarito
#72 Julian Jackson
#73 Michael Nunn
#74 Chris Byrd
#75 Kid Gavilán
#76 Manny Pacquaio
#77 Floyd Mayweather Jr
#78 Sergio Martinez
#79 Chris John
#80 Samson Dutch Boy Gym
#81: The Journeyman
#82 Julio Cesar Chavez Senior
#83 Frank Bruno
#84 Sumbu Kalambay
#85 Miguel Cotto
#86 James Toney
#87 Ricky Hatton
#88 Denis Lebedov
#89 Kelly Pavlik
#90 Vernon Forrest
#91 Andrew Golota
#92 Pernell Whitakker
#93 Sakio Bika
#94 Gary Mason
#95 Fernando Vargas
#96 Roy Jones Jr
#97 Roberto Duran
#98 Karl Froch
#99 Adonis Stevenson
#100 Glen Johnson


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#7 Khaosai Galaxy *










The hardest P4P puncher of all times, Khaosai Galaxy bursts onto the list at #7 . Nicknamed the 'Thai Tyson' and with good reason, Khaosai dominated the lower weights for decades. Creating fear and havoc among all comers, he displayed a collective gathering of synergetic skills,brutality,art,and dash. His ability to chase down opponents only further enhanced by his sheer determination and single mind approach to devastation. The World's smartest pitbull, Khaosai only need hear the word 'go' and he will not let up until the victim is left torn and lifeless inside the square ring.

Khaosai's glorious reign began when he walked down and stopped undefeated Eusebio Espinal for the WBA Title. What followed was the greatest choke hold in his Division's history. Khaosai defended his WBA Title an amazing 19 times over the next 7 years.Lee,Orono,Monserrat,Contreras,Pical,Sup Chun,Chung, Payakaroon and Llano were just some of the greats he went through during that time. Kenji Matsumura perhaps gave Khao his toughest challenge during his title reign. The tough and cagey Japanese warrior employed a variety of ambush tactics that caught Khaosai unaware at times, despite his initial confusion against a new style, Khaosai proved his greatness and soon adjusted. Khaosai ended his fighting days against fellow knockout artist Armando Castro and finished his career at 47-1.

It's not often that we see a SouthPaw of such unique skills and punching power in boxing. Although this particular niche of boxers have become more and more common place over the years, actual hard punching South Paws are still a rarity. The only left hand fighters that came close to emulating Khaosai's brilliance and savagery are Adonis Stevenson and Manny Pacquaio. The LHW Canadian carries many of Khaosai's raw power and laser like accuracy, but even the great Adonis falls far short of the genuine article. Pacquaio came closer. Pacquiao's left is almost as sharp although lacking Khaosai's use of angles and speed, Pacquaio's overall offensive abilities although not quite touching Khaosai's, have managed to enter the same ballpark. Yet even watching Pacquaio, you can't feel but that you are getting a watered down version of Galaxy.

Khaosai's incredible granite chin combined with his fearless approach and lightning like left makes him a H2H nightmare for any fighter in the history of the lower weights. He's rightfully earned his place among the best in history, critics be damned.


----------



## Flea Man

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#7 Khaosai Galaxy *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The hardest P4P puncher of all times, Khaosai Galaxy bursts onto the list at #7 . Nicknamed the 'Thai Tyson' and with good reason, Khaosai dominated the lower weights for decades. Creating fear and havoc among all comers, he displayed a collective gathering of synergetic skills,brutality,art,and dash. His ability to chase down opponents only further enhanced by his sheer determination and single mind approach to devastation. The World's smartest pitbull, Khaosai only need hear the word 'go' and he will not let up until the victim is left torn and lifeless inside the square ring.
> 
> Khaosai's glorious reign began when he walked down and stopped undefeated Eusebio Espinal for the WBA Title. What followed was the greatest choke hold in his Division's history. Khaosai defended his WBA Title an amazing 19 times over the next 7 years.Lee,Orono,Monserrat,Contreras,Pical,Sup Chun,Chung, Payakaroon and Llano were just some of the greats he went through during that time. Kenji Matsumura perhaps gave Khao his toughest challenge during his title reign. The tough and cagey Japanese warrior employed a variety of ambush tactics that caught Khaosai unaware at times, despite his initial confusion against a new style, Khaosai proved his greatness and soon adjusted. Khaosai ended his fight against fellow knockout artist Armando Castro and finished his career at 47-1.
> 
> It's not often that we see a SouthPaw of such unique skills and punching power in boxing. Although this particular niche of boxers have become more and more common place over the years, actual hard punching South Paws are still a rarity. The only left hand fightes that came close to emulating Khaosai's brilliance and savagery are Adonis Stevenson and Manny Pacquaio. The LHW Canadian carries many of Khaosai's raw power and laser like accuracy, but even the great Adonis falls far short of the genuine article. Pacquaio came closer. Pacquiao's left is almost as sharp although lacking Khaosai's use of angles and speed, Pacquaio's overall offensive abilities although not quite touching Khaosai's, have managed to enter the same ballpark. Yet even watch Pacquaio, you can't feel but that you are getting a watered down version of Galaxy.
> 
> Khaosai's incredible granite chin combined with his fearless approach and lightning like left makes him a H2H nightmare for any fighter in the history of the lower weights. He's rightfully earned his place among the best in history, critics be damned.


You didn't even know about him until the other day!!!

No mentions of the struggles he had with journeymen or fringe contenders here?

Khaosai is overrated :deal


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Flea Man said:


> You didn't even know about him until the other day!!!
> 
> No mentions of the struggles he had with journeymen or fringe contenders here?
> 
> Khaosai is overrated :deal


You got to at least admit, this guy P4P is probably the hardest SouthPaw Puncher of all times. No small feat.


----------



## Flea Man

FelixTrinidad said:


> You got to at least admit, this guy P4P is probably the hardest SouthPaw Puncher of all times. No small feat.


Big ass weight cutter. A tank at 115 and that contributed to his power as much as anything else. He was a clubber.


----------



## Lester1583

.


----------



## Lester1583

FelixTrinidad said:


> The hardest P4P puncher of all times


Truer words have never been spoken.


----------



## LittleRed

This list is pretty close to perfection.


----------



## Vic

I hope you are saving Edison Miranda for the top 5, Felix.


----------



## Flea Man

Felix is just LittleRed and Lester taking turns to wind me up.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Vic said:


> I hope you are saving Edison Miranda for the top 5, Felix.


Miranda is a great fighter.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

There are currently 19 users browsing this thread. *(1 members and 18 guests)*

:rofl:rofl


----------



## FelixTrinidad

There are currently 63 users browsing this thread. (1 members and* 62 guests*)

:rofl:rofl


----------



## LittleRed

FelixTrinidad said:


> There are currently 63 users browsing this thread. (1 members and* 62 guests*)
> 
> :rofl:rofl


Sorry wasn't logged in.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

There are currently 102 users browsing this thread. (2 members and *100 guests*)

:smile


----------



## FelixTrinidad

HomeForumBoxingWorld Boxing Forum Felix's 100 Greatest fighters of all times CountDown:#7 Khaosai Galaxy
Thread Information
There are currently 203 users browsing this thread. (1 members and *202 guests*)
FelixTrinidad
Tags for this Thread
Add / Edit Tags
None
View Tag Cloud

Looks like my list went from domestic to international.

Even the people that supported me thought my list was 'just for trolls and for laughs'.
Now they know it's 100% serious. I can't wait till I complete it and ESPN edit and than publish it.
The world laughed at Einstein when he said Earth was round and not flat, but Einstein was right. The Earth WAS ROUND and IT'S NOT FLAT.


----------



## larryx

lmfao


----------



## the cobra

FelixTrinidad said:


> The world laughed at Einstein when he said Earth was round and not flat, but Einstein was right. The Earth WAS ROUND and IT'S NOT FLAT.


:rofl


----------



## turbotime

More!


----------



## turbotime

I'm picking Anthony Joshua in a crazy upset to be #1


----------



## MadcapMaxie

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#7 Khaosai Galaxy *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The hardest P4P puncher of all times, Khaosai Galaxy bursts onto the list at #7 . Nicknamed the 'Thai Tyson' and with good reason, Khaosai dominated the lower weights for decades. Creating fear and havoc among all comers, he displayed a collective gathering of synergetic skills,brutality,art,and dash. His ability to chase down opponents only further enhanced by his sheer determination and single mind approach to devastation. The World's smartest pitbull, Khaosai only need hear the word 'go' and he will not let up until the victim is left torn and lifeless inside the square ring.
> 
> Khaosai's glorious reign began when he walked down and stopped undefeated Eusebio Espinal for the WBA Title. What followed was the greatest choke hold in his Division's history. Khaosai defended his WBA Title an amazing 19 times over the next 7 years.Lee,Orono,Monserrat,Contreras,Pical,Sup Chun,Chung, Payakaroon and Llano were just some of the greats he went through during that time. Kenji Matsumura perhaps gave Khao his toughest challenge during his title reign. The tough and cagey Japanese warrior employed a variety of ambush tactics that caught Khaosai unaware at times, despite his initial confusion against a new style, Khaosai proved his greatness and soon adjusted. Khaosai ended his fighting days against fellow knockout artist Armando Castro and finished his career at 47-1.
> 
> It's not often that we see a SouthPaw of such unique skills and punching power in boxing. Although this particular niche of boxers have become more and more common place over the years, actual hard punching South Paws are still a rarity. The only left hand fighters that came close to emulating Khaosai's brilliance and savagery are Adonis Stevenson and Manny Pacquaio. The LHW Canadian carries many of Khaosai's raw power and laser like accuracy, but even the great Adonis falls far short of the genuine article. Pacquaio came closer. Pacquiao's left is almost as sharp although lacking Khaosai's use of angles and speed, Pacquaio's overall offensive abilities although not quite touching Khaosai's, have managed to enter the same ballpark. Yet even watching Pacquaio, you can't feel but that you are getting a watered down version of Galaxy.
> 
> Khaosai's incredible granite chin combined with his fearless approach and lightning like left makes him a H2H nightmare for any fighter in the history of the lower weights. He's rightfully earned his place among the best in history, critics be damned.


Apologies for ever doubting this list. It is nigh perfect. Galaxy top 10? Fuck yeah.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

turbotime said:


> More!


Damn bro... BOXING SCENE just called us out.

"""*and other users are agreeing with him and giving him props looooooool.

i felt so poor, dirty, and mildly retarded just by being in that site.

eewwww.

its like the somalia of boxing websites. so glad to be here in the industrial first world boxing website.

WAR BOXINGSCENE!!!!"""""""""""""
*

:rofl


----------



## turbotime

FelixTrinidad said:


> Damn bro... BOXING SCENE just called us out.
> 
> """*and other users are agreeing with him and giving him props looooooool.
> 
> i felt so poor, dirty, and mildly retarded just by being in that site.
> 
> eewwww.
> 
> its like the somalia of boxing websites. so glad to be here in the industrial first world boxing website.
> 
> WAR BOXINGSCENE!!!!"""""""""""""
> *
> 
> :rofl


Boxingscene has fucking Pac-Boy as one of their star posters :rofl I'd love for guys like PacBoy, Makaveli to come here and try it out. Their other superstars Maniac and thuggery tried and they got laughed off the site :smoke

New England and Capaedia are literally the only good posters. I'm being serious.


----------



## Hands of Iron

Boxing Scene can't even remotely fuck with the posters on this forum.


----------



## Drew101

turbotime said:


> Boxingscene has fucking Pac-Boy as one of their star posters :rofl I'd love for guys like PacBoy, Makaveli to come here and try it out. Their other superstars Maniac and thuggery tried and they got laughed off the site :smoke
> 
> New England and Capaedia are literally the only good posters. I'm being serious.


Isn't Joe MacKKKenzie aka Freedom2013 a star poster there...?


----------



## dyna

When I wanted to check how much of a Klittardia paradise boxingscene was I made an account there and posted some Klitschko hate stuff.
Got banned for being accused of being an alt :lol:

These guys over there are funny :yep
hwblogger (Aquamarine, elroy, copernicus) also regularly posts there.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Drew101 said:


> Isn't Joe MacKKKenzie aka Freedom2013 a star poster there...?


He's tuned down his racism quite a bit though, I mean he still likes White Fighters and Non-Black fighters more than Blacks, but that's the same as me liking Black British Heavyweights more than smaller Mexican fighters or White fighters. It's just a preference.

The really racist guys are on ESB now. There's this guy name Kevin Willis or something and another name Bert Cooper, who don't even bother to hid it. Some of the posts were quite shocking. Posts like 'Great Black Hope' 'Bow down to your Slavic God Wlad' and 'They fighting for Crack money'... it's highly offensive. 
NSB got by far the most Pac-Tards though and Floyd-Haters.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

dyna said:


> When I wanted to check how much of a Klittardia paradise boxingscene was I made an account there and posted some Klitschko hate stuff.
> Got banned for being accused of being an alt :lol:
> 
> These guys over there are funny :yep
> hwblogger (Aquamarine, elroy, copernicus) also regularly posts there.


Some of these Klittards actually support Lewis in debates as long as it's not against a Klitschko. The reason I think is because you can use the 'size argument' with Lewis and apply it to Wladimir. Except of course it doesn't work like that.
Lewis is the BMW M5 to Wladimir's Audi A8.


----------



## dyna

FelixTrinidad said:


> Some of these Klittards actually support Lewis in debates as long as it's not against a Klitschko. The reason I think is because you can use the 'size argument' with Lewis and apply it to Wladimir. Except of course it doesn't work like that.
> Lewis is the BMW M5 to Wladimir's Audi 8.


Yea, they often have a secret love for Lewis his you know.
They will kiss his butt provided it's not a Vitali thread.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#6 Muhammad Ali*









*M*esmerizing grace you showed in the ring.
*U*nified generations, presence of a King.
*H*unger, desire, your iron will.
*A*lways fighting, you refused to be their Emmett Till
*M*any attempted to take you down.
*M*any attempted to rob your crown.
*a*nd yet they failed one after the other
*d*auntless courage, we'll never see another.


----------



## dyna

Please let John Ruiz still be in the race, after all he was ducked by literally everybody.


----------



## Lester1583

dyna said:


> Please let John Ruiz still be in the race, after all he was ducked by literally everybody.


Ali never looked as amazing as the prime Ruiz dancing, jabbing and outboxing the beastly Kobozev.


----------



## superman1692

FelixTrinidad said:


> The world laughed at Einstein when he said Earth was round and not flat, but Einstein was right. The Earth WAS ROUND and IT'S NOT FLAT.


----------



## Kurushi

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#9 Ricardo Lopez*





LittleRed said:


> Was Khaosai Galaxy ranked yet?





FelixTrinidad said:


> Who the Hell is Khaosai Galaxy? Lol.. sounds like a Comic book super hero.





Flea Man said:


> How can you compile a list of 'greatest fighters' if you don't know fuck all about boxing history? You soppy cunt.





FelixTrinidad said:


> *#7 Khaosai Galaxy*


:rofl Fucking hilarious. This place wouldn't be the same without you FT.


----------



## Junito

Hasim Rahman :lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Lester1583 said:


> Ali never looked as amazing as the prime Ruiz dancing, jabbing and outboxing the beastly Kobozev.


:lol:.

On a serious note, Prime Ruiz was a very good fighter. I'm talking mid to late 90's. Elite level fighter. The Ruiz Roy fought was a mere shell of his former self.


----------



## dyna

FelixTrinidad said:


> :lol:.
> 
> On a serious note, Prime Ruiz was a very good fighter. I'm talking mid to late 90's. Elite level fighter. The Ruiz Roy fought was a mere shell of his former self.


Don't forget Ruiz got robbed a lot contrary to popular belief.
Kobozev fight, Danell Nicholson fight (Ruiz deserved the win, Danell was also lucky the doctor didnt stop the fight), first Holyfield fight. (Only reason Ruiz got a rematch is that everybody knew Ruiz was the winner the first night) and the first Valuev fight.
Luckily Ruiz got revenge on Holyfield by making Holyfield collapse in his lap during the 11th round of the second fight, nobody ever gave Holyfield such jelly legs again.

Skip to 56:55





Ruiz also dominated and stopped Tony Tucker who gave Tyson and Lewis tough battles while never going down against those 2 monsters, he did go down against Ruiz.


----------



## bailey

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#38 Joe Calzaghe*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The boogeyman of Boxing's 168 Division, Joe Calzaghe is hands down the greatest super middle weight of all times. Joe dominated the storied Division in emphatic fashion, forever putting his foot down in a giant stomp of greatness. Defending his title a record 21 times with honor and courage, Joe was rarely in a close fight and wiped out all competition. He decimated Prime Lacy, brutalized Prime Kessler, and went up in weight to take down the legendary Bernard Hopkins. Hopkins would go on to break records of his own at the 175 Divison. Calzaghe to this day is still under appreciated and loathed by many for the beating he put on a Past Prime Roy Jones Jr. As a boxing fan I can afford to be bias, as a boxing writer I can not. I have Joe firmly in the top 40 among all the greats and he sure as Hell earned it.
> 
> 'Super Joe'
> Joe Calzaghe the Prince of Wales.
> Comparable to Roy but 08 tipped the scales.
> Calzaghe won 11 of 12 rounds.
> Now now Roy fans stop those frowns!
> Cherry Picking wasn't his style!
> You call it avoiding I call it guile.
> He's known as the Welsh energy bunny.
> His ferocity reminds me of a heavyweight name Sonny
> He beat Kessler and Hopkins as well.
> His defense was sublime,you can't pentrate that shell.
> Punches? He threw 10,000 + one.
> Jeff Lacy lost before it even begun.
> Calzaghe Calzaghe he's so great..
> All you fans still under appreciate.


Truly fantastic post


----------



## tommygun711

I wonder who this cocksucker has above Ali.


----------



## Flea Man

tommygun711 said:


> I wonder who this cocksucker has above Ali.


Samson Dutchboy Gym


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#5 Mike Tyson: Final Edition:1999-2002*










I'm not going to write a long article about why the 99-02 version of Tyson was the greatest version. Why won't I? Because millions of enraged and insane Tyson fan boys will simply crawl in and go against my article. Calling me a ignorant moronic retard, calling me a liar, accusing me of being bias. Perhaps putting the 99-02 version of Tyson so high up on this list to boost Lennox's own profile.

Forget all that. What I will do is simply prove to everyone via mathematical formula why 99-02 Tyson was Peak Tyson.

A common misconception is that Tyson was best at 214-220 pounds. This is false. In fact the bigger he got, the better he got.

*Let's take a look at what a Young Skinny Tyson was able to do against actual heavyweights:*

vs 
James Smith(233 Pounds) Unable to knock him out.
Tony Tucker(6'5 and 223) Unable to knock him out.
Frank Bruno(230 Pounds) Tyson was badly hurt and was almost knocked out.
Buster Douglas(234 Pounds) Tyson was utterly destroyed and knocked out.
Razer Ruddock(230 Pounds) Tyson went life and death against Ruddock twice.

*Now let's take a look at what bigger,stronger,and heavier Tyson was able to do against super sized heavyweights later on in his career:*
vs
Frans Botha(237 Pounds) Tyson knocked Botha out in 5 rounds.
Julius Francis(248 Pounds) Tyson destroyed him in 2 rounds.
Lou Savarese(244 Pounds) Tyson knocked him out in 1 round.
Andrew Golota(242 Pounds) Tyson destroyed him in 3 rounds.
Brian Nielsen(264 Pounds) Tyson destroyed him in 7 rounds.

Young Tyson fought against 5 good big men and had a total of 6 fights against them. Their average weight was around 230ish. Young Tyson was only able to deliver one true knock out. He was troubled and hurt numerous times and actually knocked out by one of those big men.

Tyson packed on muscles and added weight to his body. Older Tyson from 99-02 went against 5 super heavyweights with an *average weight of 247 pounds.* Which is roughly around 17 pounds heavier than the big men Young Tyson struggled against. Yet older Tyson managed to destroy these 5 big men with relative ease. Was never troubled, and was never hurt.

Simple mathematics indicate that Older Tyson had much more success against opponents that once troubled him. He got bigger,wiser, had more experience, and was an unstoppable machine tank. The truth is Prime Tyson was from 99-02 and that version of Tyson would have beaten the vast majority of Heavyweights in history.


----------



## LittleRed

I approve of this message.


----------



## turbotime

INb4 Tyson haters and religious nuts trying to argue against Science.


----------



## Hands of Iron

turbotime said:


> INb4 Tyson haters and religious nuts trying to argue against Science.


I'm sure he actually did hit harder. Everything else had gone to shit though. I'll take Tyson in the top five however I can get him.


----------



## Brnxhands

Yeah late 90's real early 2000s tyson hit harder than when he was younger. That fuckin Botha ko no joke


----------



## turbotime

Hands of Iron said:


> I'm sure he actually did hit harder. Everything else had gone to shit though. I'll take Tyson in the top five however I can get him.


:lol: You got him 3 times in there now :-(


----------



## Hands of Iron

Brnxhands said:


> Yeah late 90's real early 2000s tyson hit harder than when he was younger. That fuckin Botha ko no joke


Imagine him being able to utilize it with the same level of timing, speed, velocity and variation he had at his actual peak? As a non-plodder with exceptional defense? Then you may of actually seen the fighter some build him up to be.


----------



## Hands of Iron

turbotime said:


> :lol: You got him 3 times in there now :-(


:rofl :rofl Seriously. So great he made the top 100 four times! :deal Can feel my little green eyes starting to get watery. Felix is a Scholar and a Gent.


----------



## FelixTrinidad




----------



## FelixTrinidad




----------



## tommygun711

Stay on topic chump ^


----------



## pipe wrenched

.


----------



## tommygun711

pipe wrenched said:


> .


.


----------



## PityTheFool

LittleRed said:


> I approve of this message.


It's a brilliant link to the top spot.Saw it coming a mile away and that's unusual for Felix's Top 100.


----------



## superman1692

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#5 Mike Tyson: Final Edition:1999-2002*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not going to write a long article about why the 99-02 version of Tyson was the greatest version. Why won't I? Because millions of enraged and insane Tyson fan boys will simply crawl in and go against my article. Calling me a ignorant moronic retard, calling me a liar, accusing me of being bias. Perhaps putting the 99-02 version of Tyson so high up on this list to boost Lennox's own profile.
> 
> Forget all that. What I will do is simply prove to everyone via mathematical formula why 99-02 Tyson was Peak Tyson.
> 
> A common misconception is that Tyson was best at 214-220 pounds. This is false. In fact the bigger he got, the better he got.
> 
> *Let's take a look at what a Young Skinny Tyson was able to do against actual heavyweights:*
> 
> vs
> James Smith(233 Pounds) Unable to knock him out.
> Tony Tucker(6'5 and 223) Unable to knock him out.
> Frank Bruno(230 Pounds) Tyson was badly hurt and was almost knocked out.
> Buster Douglas(234 Pounds) Tyson was utterly destroyed and knocked out.
> Razer Ruddock(230 Pounds) Tyson went life and death against Ruddock twice.
> 
> *Now let's take a look at what bigger,stronger,and heavier Tyson was able to do against super sized heavyweights later on in his career:*
> vs
> Frans Botha(237 Pounds) Tyson knocked Botha out in 5 rounds.
> Julius Francis(248 Pounds) Tyson destroyed him in 2 rounds.
> Lou Savarese(244 Pounds) Tyson knocked him out in 1 round.
> Andrew Golota(242 Pounds) Tyson destroyed him in 3 rounds.
> Brian Nielsen(264 Pounds) Tyson destroyed him in 7 rounds.
> 
> Young Tyson fought against 5 good big men and had a total of 6 fights against them. Their average weight was around 230ish. Young Tyson was only able to deliver one true knock out. He was troubled and hurt numerous times and actually knocked out by one of those big men.
> 
> Tyson packed on muscles and added weight to his body. Older Tyson from 99-02 went against 5 super heavyweights with an *average weight of 247 pounds.* Which is roughly around 17 pounds heavier than the big men Young Tyson struggled against. Yet older Tyson managed to destroy these 5 big men with relative ease. Was never troubled, and was never hurt.
> 
> Simple mathematics indicate that Older Tyson had much more success against opponents that once troubled him. He got bigger,wiser, had more experience, and was an unstoppable machine tank. The truth is Prime Tyson was from 99-02 and that version of Tyson would have beaten the vast majority of Heavyweights in history.


I think you've destroyed any credibility you may have had with this load of rubbish.


----------



## dyna

Daily reminder that Tyson (final edition) ducked John Ruiz


----------



## FelixTrinidad

superman1692 said:


> I think you've destroyed any credibility you may have had with this load of rubbish.


Prove my theory wrong.


----------



## One to watch

Julius Francis and Brian Nielsen don't compare well with razor ruddock,buster Douglas,tony tucker,frank Bruno etc.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

One to watch said:


> Julius Francis and Brian Nielsen don't compare well with razor ruddock,buster Douglas,tony tucker,frank Bruno etc.


You are right, they don't compare well. Francis and Nielsen are 20+ pounds bigger. Buster Douglas was a good little man, Nielsen was a good big man. There is a difference.


----------



## LittleRed

PityTheFool said:


> It's a brilliant link to the top spot.Saw it coming a mile away and that's unusual for Felix's Top 100.


It's just perfect really. I'm ashamed to say it took me a while to see why he did it but it just makes so much sense.


----------



## pipe wrenched

tommygun711 said:


> .


Exactly :deal


----------



## Lester1583

dyna said:


> Don't forget Ruiz got robbed a lot contrary to popular belief.
> Kobozev fight, Danell Nicholson fight (Ruiz deserved the win, Danell was also lucky the doctor didnt stop the fight)


Robinson-like combinations from Ruiz in the Nicholson fight.

And those smooth defensive skills - ATG stuff.



dyna said:


> Daily reminder that Tyson (final edition) ducked John Ruiz


To this day Lewis refuses to talk about Ruiz - we all know why.


----------



## PowerBack

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#5 Mike Tyson: Final Edition:1999-2002*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not going to write a long article about why the 99-02 version of Tyson was the greatest version. Why won't I? Because millions of enraged and insane Tyson fan boys will simply crawl in and go against my article. Calling me a ignorant moronic retard, calling me a liar, accusing me of being bias. Perhaps putting the 99-02 version of Tyson so high up on this list to boost Lennox's own profile.
> 
> Forget all that. What I will do is simply prove to everyone via mathematical formula why 99-02 Tyson was Peak Tyson.
> 
> A common misconception is that Tyson was best at 214-220 pounds. This is false. In fact the bigger he got, the better he got.
> 
> *Let's take a look at what a Young Skinny Tyson was able to do against actual heavyweights:*
> 
> vs
> James Smith(233 Pounds) Unable to knock him out.
> Tony Tucker(6'5 and 223) Unable to knock him out.
> Frank Bruno(230 Pounds) Tyson was badly hurt and was almost knocked out.
> Buster Douglas(234 Pounds) Tyson was utterly destroyed and knocked out.
> Razer Ruddock(230 Pounds) Tyson went life and death against Ruddock twice.
> 
> *Now let's take a look at what bigger,stronger,and heavier Tyson was able to do against super sized heavyweights later on in his career:*
> vs
> Frans Botha(237 Pounds) Tyson knocked Botha out in 5 rounds.
> Julius Francis(248 Pounds) Tyson destroyed him in 2 rounds.
> Lou Savarese(244 Pounds) Tyson knocked him out in 1 round.
> Andrew Golota(242 Pounds) Tyson destroyed him in 3 rounds.
> Brian Nielsen(264 Pounds) Tyson destroyed him in 7 rounds.
> 
> Young Tyson fought against 5 good big men and had a total of 6 fights against them. Their average weight was around 230ish. Young Tyson was only able to deliver one true knock out. He was troubled and hurt numerous times and actually knocked out by one of those big men.
> 
> Tyson packed on muscles and added weight to his body. Older Tyson from 99-02 went against 5 super heavyweights with an *average weight of 247 pounds.* Which is roughly around 17 pounds heavier than the big men Young Tyson struggled against. Yet older Tyson managed to destroy these 5 big men with relative ease. Was never troubled, and was never hurt.
> 
> Simple mathematics indicate that Older Tyson had much more success against opponents that once troubled him. He got bigger,wiser, had more experience, and was an unstoppable machine tank. The truth is Prime Tyson was from 99-02 and that version of Tyson would have beaten the vast majority of Heavyweights in history.


I see what you did there! Smart move Felix, smart move.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#4 Vitali Klitschko *










The behemoth from Ukraine is the single greatest boxer Eastern Europe ever produced. It might be too early, but I'm going to venture and say that he is the single greatest boxer Eastern Europe WILL ever produce. Standing at 6'8 and carrying with him a massive 250 pound frame yet with Ali like quickness and Jones Jr like reflexes, Vitali was about as close to unbeatable as they came. His achievements ran one after the other in a marathon to greatness:

Utterly and masterfully dissecting the engima Kevin Johnson. Snatching the soul of Herbie Hide. Stopping the magnificently brilliant Corrie Sanders. Destroying a Prime Samuel Peter. Forcing the heavy punching Chris Arreola into tears and reducing him from a tough man to a scared little girl. And recently, years past his best and glories lone gone, Vitali managed to beat a savage animal in Dereck Chisora.

The fighter most often compared to Vitali Klitschko is Muhammad Ali. As great as Ali was, he would never had stood a chance against a far bigger version of himself. Vitali's lean back taunting style often brings to mind the way Ali so taunted his opponents with a combination of fleet foot movements,hand speed,and lightning fast jabs. Vitali in ring brings to mind what Ali could have been if he was 6'8 and 250 instead of a mere 6'3 and mortal like 215. It is impossible to knock Vitali out unless you are Lennox Lewis. It is impossible to make Vitali quit unless you are Chris Byrd. It is impossible to beat Vitali unless you are Lennox Lewis or Chris Byrd. That's the bottom line. Truths are hard for American Media to admit. To them, Ali and Louis are the shining beacons of leaping over prejudice. The condundrumific Black Man over riding the eroeticersial lash of the American pre 1980's hatred. Their Sun riders and their moon landers are mere shadows of glorious inhabitiants reflecting within the very souls of Cassius Clay. Truth hurts but even candles burn out and for one to deny such existence is to deny gravity itself.

Vitali fought his whole life in the ring and right now it seem as if he is fighting for something far greater outside the ring. He is fighting for the freedom of his people. A Ukrainian William Wallace and I'll ride alongside him any day as shall all of you. I cannot promise that he will lead his people to victory. But I can promise this: If he shall fall, I'll be the one to throw his sword before the final charge.


----------



## the cobra

#3 : Michael Grant
#2 : Zeljko Mavrovic
#1 : ...


----------



## Setanta

FelixTrinidad said:


> *The 100 Greatest fighters of all times.*
> 
> *Full write ups of each fighter is available starting from Page 11.*
> 
> *#4 Vitali Klitschko *
> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...tali-Klitschko&p=993261&viewfull=1#post993261
> 
> *#5 Mike Tyson: Final Edition:1999-2002*
> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...tion-1999-2002&p=984381&viewfull=1#post984381
> 
> *#6 Muhammad Ali*
> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...6-Muhammad-Ali&p=969822&viewfull=1#post969822
> 
> *#7 Khaosai Galaxy*
> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...Khaosai-Galaxy&p=964161&viewfull=1#post964161
> 
> etc etc etc....
> 
> *100- Glen Johnson.*
> One of the most underated boxers of any generation, Glen Johnson stakes his claim at #100 . The Jamician is the very example of courage,dedication, and elite level volume punching. Johnson went on a tear to start off his career at MW.
> 
> Dominating 32 straight fighters with his surreal volume punching, beating out dangerous fighters like Ralph Monday,Jeff Johnson,Tom Bentley,and Gerald Reed. He suffered his first loss to Bernard Hopkins in a brutal back and forth battle and was than robbed agaisnt Sos and Kiwanuka.
> Johnson went on a 2nd run after moving up to Super Middle Weight, only to be stopped by fellow ATG Sven Ottke in a dazzling 12 round contest. Johnson reinvented his style and changed his volume punching to a more stylish approach.. His big night came against Fighter of the Decade Roy Jones Jr who he managed to outbox for 9 straight rounds prior to the brutal and vicious knock out which left Jones Jr comatose for 10 minutes.
> 
> Johnson went on to meet fellow Roy Conqueror Motell Griffin in a thrilling contest which saw Johnson emerge victorius in the 11th....
> Glen Johnson retired from boxing after giving Golden Boy George Groves all that he could handle. Johnson #100


Decent list, Felix.

I might switch #88 (Lebedov) and #89 (Pavlik), but I'd have to think about it more, and maybe rewatch some of Lebedov's earlier work.

But other than that, I don't think I'd tinker much with it.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Lebedov's wins over ATG'S Toney and Jones gives him the edge.


----------



## superman1692

You put Vitali at no. 4???? Who the fuck has he beaten to warrant that spot?? You put him above Ali?? Mother of god..........


----------



## MadcapMaxie

2. Ali Raymi
1. Lennox Lewis


----------



## dyna

superman1692 said:


> You put Vitali at no. 4???? Who the fuck has he beaten to warrant that spot?? You put him above Ali?? Mother of god..........


You're the idiot.
Vitali has a 95.7% win ratio, Ali has a 91.8% win ratio: Vitali is better proven by math.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Chacal said:


> Who's going to beat him?


Anybody can lose. Damn bro what the FUCK is up with your love for Cubans?

You like Michiganwarrior but midget version and instead of dreaming about BBC you dream about BCC.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

superman1692 said:


> You put Vitali at no. 4???? *Who the fuck has he beaten to warrant that spot??* You put him above Ali?? Mother of god..........


Herbie Hide
Kevin Johnson
Sam Peter
Corrie Sanders
Dereck Chisora
Chris Arreloa
Ross Purrity


----------



## JamieC

Why have you put so much time and effort into this troll list? Bizarre


----------



## FelixTrinidad

JamieC said:


> Why have you put so much time and effort into this troll list? Bizarre


Prove to me that it's a troll list. Just because a list is different from yours doesn't make it a troll list.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

JamieC said:


> Why have you put so much time and effort into this troll list? Bizarre


Is your favorite fighter Carl Froch? Didn't he get utterly destroyed and embarrassed by Andre Ward? Both made the list btw.
Once again, just because a list is DIFFERENT from other lists, don't make it a troll list.


----------



## tommygun711

So going by this you think Ali would lose to Vitali? That contradicts your past posts where you would say prime Ali would beat any HW ever.


----------



## JamieC

FelixTrinidad said:


> Is your favorite fighter Carl Froch? Didn't he get utterly destroyed and embarrassed by Andre Ward? Both made the list btw.
> Once again, just because a list is DIFFERENT from other lists, don't make it a troll list.


Suuuuuuure :good


----------



## superman1692

dyna said:


> You're the idiot.
> Vitali has a 95.7% win ratio, Ali has a 91.8% win ratio: Vitali is better proven by math.


And this is the problem with Klittards. Nothing but a bunch of boxrec/stats nerds, and never actually bother to look beyond numbers.


----------



## dyna

superman1692 said:


> And this is the problem with Klittards. Nothing but a bunch of boxrec/stats nerds, and never actually bother to look beyond numbers.


Math is absolute :lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad

superman1692 said:


> And this is the problem with Klittards. Nothing but a bunch of boxrec/stats nerds, and never actually bother to look beyond numbers.


 Wait so just because me and Dyna are big time Vitali Klitschko fans that makes us Klittards?
What both me and Dyna have done is refute your logic with math and stats.

Hey... Kobe Bryant scored 81 points in a game.. now you gonna tell me that stat is shit because it was against the raptors?
If it's so shit how come Jordan never scored 81 points against the raptors?


----------



## The Wanderer

FelixTrinidad said:


> Herbie Hide
> Kevin Johnson
> Sam Peter
> Corrie Sanders
> Dereck Chisora
> Chris Arreloa
> Ross Purrity


Sooooo.... nobody, then?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

The Wanderer said:


> Sooooo.... nobody, then?


Corrie Sanders and Ross Purrity both have wins over a bonafide HW ATG. Keep that in mind.


----------



## MadcapMaxie

3. Jimmy Young
2. Ali Raymi
1. Lennox Lewis


I'm calling it right now.


----------



## TSOL

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#4 Vitali Klitschko *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is fighting for the freedom of his people. A Ukrainian William Wallace and I'll ride alongside him any day as shall all of you. I cannot promise that he will lead his people to victory. But I can promise this: If he shall fall, I'll be the one to throw his sword before the final charge.


I respect that guy so much now. That guy went right into what looks like a war zone. We all know Ali transcended boxing, I wonder if we can say Vitali's surpassed him in that respect.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

TSOL said:


> I respect that guy so much now. That guy went right into what looks like a war zone. We all know Ali transcended boxing, I wonder if we can say Vitali's surpassed him in that respect.


Vitali surpassed Ali in every respect with the exception of getting knocked the fuck out by Henry Cooper.


----------



## TSOL

FelixTrinidad said:


> Vitali surpassed Ali in every respect with the exception of getting knocked the fuck out by Henry Cooper.


:lol:


----------



## turbotime

FelixTrinidad said:


> Vitali surpassed Ali in every respect with the exception of getting knocked the fuck out by Henry Cooper.


:rofl


----------



## The Wanderer

FelixTrinidad said:


> Corrie Sanders and Ross Purrity both have wins over a bonafide HW ATG. Keep that in mind.


A "certified" heavyweight ATG with a glass jaw.

But how could I doubt Herbie Hide, conqueror of the great Conroy Nelson and Jeff Lampkin? He of the 7 knockdowns against Bowe?

Or Ross Puritty, who has a loss to every semi-notable heavyweight of the 90s? I'm surprised that beating him didn't likewise propel Byrd, Grant, Kirk Johnson, Larry Donald, King Ipitan, or Timo Hoffmann into your top ranks as well. :lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad

The Wanderer said:


> A "certified" heavyweight ATG with a glass jaw.
> 
> But how could I doubt Herbie Hide, conqueror of the great Conroy Nelson and Jeff Lampkin? He of the 7 knockdowns against Bowe?
> 
> *Or Ross Puritty, who has a loss to every semi-notable heavyweight of the 90s? I'm surprised that beating him didn't likewise propel Byrd, Grant, Kirk Johnson, Larry Donald, King Ipitan, or Timo Hoffmann into your top ranks as well*. :lol:


This logic makes zero sense. Miguel Cotto have lost numerous times, he lost to Mayweather and Pacquaio. Both are ATGS. So by your logic, when someone list Cotto as a big win for Pacquaio, you can go 'well Margarito beat up Cotto too' I'm surprised Margarito isn't on your list of ATGS(actually he is on MY list,but you get the point).


----------



## On the Money

Peak Vitali H2H is #1 or close as.


----------



## rossco

TSOL said:


> I respect that guy so much now. That guy went right into what looks like a war zone. We all know Ali transcended boxing, I wonder if we can say Vitali's surpassed him in that respect.


Vitali is a brave warrior Unlike the scared draft evading coward, Cassius Clay. Cassius ran away from war like his coward ass alter ego 'Muhammad Ali' ran away from the bombs of big Georgie Foreman before he got lucky with a couple of slaps.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

rossco said:


> Vitali is a brave warrior Unlike the scared draft evading coward, Cassius Clay. Cassius ran away from war like his coward ass alter ego 'Muhammad Ali' ran away from the bombs of big Georgie Foreman before he got lucky with a couple of slaps.


The issue is that Vitali is fighting for the wrong causes. Ali fought for the right ones.

That being said, Vitali is still showing amazing courage and his beliefs, however misguided they are, is to be admired.


----------



## Cableaddict

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Armstrong - 3rd best of all time IMO after 1. Greb 2. Robinson. He beat Ceferino Garcia and thus had titles at 4 weight divisions where they had same day weigh ins. Monster.
> Pep - monster.
> Barney Ross - neck and neck with Leonard in all time rankings, with the majority having him a whisker above Leonard.


Hard to argue with this.

- though I don't know nuthin' about Barney Ross except his incredible bout with Armstrong. (the original Rios-Alvarado, but with more skill) 
I guess I'll have to check him out now. I hope there's more footage of him than of Greb.


----------



## rossco

FelixTrinidad said:


> The issue is that Vitali is fighting for the wrong causes. Ali fought for the right ones.
> 
> That being said, Vitali is still showing amazing courage and his beliefs, however misguided they are, is to be admired.


 :lol: I was being sarcastic mate.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

rossco said:


> :lol: I was being sarcastic mate.


:verysad sort of wishing that you weren't..............

:lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Cableaddict said:


> Hard to argue with this.
> 
> - though I don't know nuthin' about Barney Ross except his incredible bout with Armstrong. (the original Rios-Alvarado, but with more skill)
> I guess I'll have to check him out now. * I hope there's more footage of him than of Greb*.


Biggest issue with Mcgrain's list as compared to mine. I also honor the old timers but I honor them in the right places and give them the justified rankings. Mcgrain along with many others will often stack the top 25 with a huge amount of old time historic fighters.The problem is that most of those fighters does not deserve the rankings bestowed upon them by so many rose tinted writers who has become more 'fanboy' than historian.


----------



## rossco

:lol:


FelixTrinidad said:


> :verysad sort of wishing that you weren't..............
> 
> :lol:


No doubt there's a few mongs on this forum that would agree with what I wrote. Half of ESB would :lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Here's a clue to my next boxer.
He's linked to this song.


----------



## The Wanderer

FelixTrinidad said:


> This logic makes zero sense. Miguel Cotto have lost numerous times, he lost to Mayweather and Pacquaio. Both are ATGS. So by your logic, when someone list Cotto as a big win for Pacquaio, you can go 'well Margarito beat up Cotto too' I'm surprised Margarito isn't on your list of ATGS(actually he is on MY list,but you get the point).


My logic is that when someone spends their whole career losing to nobodies and B listers and gets a lucky win over a bigger name fighter, that doesn't erase the fact that they spent the rest of their career losing to nobodies and B listers. That one win doesn't elevate them or make them suddenly a notable victory or a great fighter. They're still the same guy who lost all those times, just now they have a single bright spot on their resume.

There's no shame in Cotto losing to the 2 greatest fighters of his generation. It is, however, a drawback to one's career to _consistently_ lose to C and D class fighters, which Puritty did. If you can't see the difference between loses to Derek Isaman, John Sargent, and Cleveland Woods as compared to losing to Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao, then I think it's time for you to find a new sport. You don't really get this one.


----------



## Flea Man

Cableaddict said:


> Hard to argue with this.
> 
> - though I don't know nuthin' about Barney Ross except his incredible bout with Armstrong. (the original Rios-Alvarado, but with more skill)
> I guess I'll have to check him out now. I hope there's more footage of him than of Greb.


I have Ross at #10 
@The Undefeated Gaul was right to give him his props.


----------



## turbotime

rossco said:


> :lol:
> 
> No doubt there's a few mongs on this forum that would agree with what I wrote. Half of ESB would :lol:


:rofl more than half.

I was impressed with that troll attempt :good


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul

Flea Man said:


> I have Ross at #10
> 
> @*The Undefeated Gaul* was right to give him his props.


Where do you have Pep?
------------------------------------------------
@FelixTrinidad


----------



## rossco

turbotime said:


> :rofl more than half.
> 
> I was impressed with that troll attempt :good


Cheers Turbo. I'm usually a bit more subtle with my trolling :lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Where do you have Pep?
> ------------------------------------------------
> 
> @FelixTrinidad


Joshua looks fucking massive. I want him to move up to Chisora level by the end of this year. There is a small chance he can still catch Wladimir if Wladimir decides to stick around too long. With Vitali just wasting money on his political dreams, maybe the Klitschkos will have to fight on for a few more years.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#3 Evander Holyfield*










Everybody knows how great Evander Holyfield was. We all know of his iron will, his indomitable spirit, and his awe inspiring courage. We know of his fights against Bowe,Lewis,and Tyson. We know his resume and we know his skills. I will like to present a story that lead to the birth of this legend.

Little Evander was born in a small shitty town in the incredibly poor state of Alabama. Think Ukraine. Now think dumpster. Now imagine Ukraine having sex with the dumpster. We have Alabama. This is where Evander was born. The story of Evander doesn't really take place in Alabama, I just wanted to talk shit about the state. The story of Evander actually started in Atlanta(another poor place).

Young Evander never had to deal with the street dangers and drugs a young Tyson/Lewis/Bowe went through. The reason being that Evander found a place called the 'Warren Memorial Boys Club' early on in his life and proceeded to engulfed his childhood in that precious threshold instead of out on the dangerous city blocks. Evander's first true love was American Football. He had a natural talent for it and won numerous trophies as a kid. What he found one afternoon just outside the Boy's Club changed his life and the history of Heavyweight Boxing forever. A small forbidden fenced in area with gladiator like teenagers and man staring at each other as the blood dripped down their faces. Brutal fists connecting with already broken noses and thunderous body shots heard from miles away. It was a heavyweight training ground ran by Carter Morgan. Carter Morgan was White. Evander was Black. Evander fell in love with the sport on first sight and abandoned all thoughts of pigskin. He fought every day from than on for the next 40 years of his life.

People talk about Tyson and Cus, Emmanuel and Tommy, yet Morgan's influence and contribution to the legendary Holyfield was every bit as important. Holyfield would stare at Morgan every day as he sat outside that fenced complex. He noticed the intense glare of Morgan's soulful eyes, the electric touch Morgan's hands seem to conjure whenever he stroked another boy's shoulders. The pure admiration and love other men gave Morgan as he spoke. Holyfield fell in love. Not homosexual love,but the love a young boy have for a Father figure. A large part of why Evander joined that boxing complex was because he wanted Morgan as a Father. The Dad he never had. Everything about Morgan screamed at Evander's tender spirit, a spirit in want of leaderships, and a spirit in want of a gentle hand. Morgan gave Evander that hand and Holyfield grasped it in a move that would shake up the upper Tiers of Boxing's Divisions for the next two decades.


----------



## SimplyTuck

What a shit thread.


----------



## turbotime

#theGoods


----------



## tommygun711

Fucking hell. LEWIS #1 even tho ali would whoop him.


----------



## TSOL

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#82 Julio Cesar Chavez Senior*
> One of the great Mexicans of all times.. he was the real life Puss in Boots. Antonio Banderas with an attitude


this motherfucker :rofl


----------



## turbotime

tommygun711 said:


> Fucking hell. LEWIS #1 even tho ali would *whoop *him.


Sit down.


----------



## tommygun711

turbotime said:


> Sit down.


uh what? Ali would decisively beat him, u sit down.


----------



## turbotime

tommygun711 said:


> uh what? Ali would decisively beat him, u sit down.


Like he decisively beat Norton all those times?


----------



## tommygun711

turbotime said:


> Like he decisively beat Norton all those times?


he beat Norton decisively in the second fight. and Norton does not equal Lewis. Totally different styles. Not to mention it was in his second career when he are talking about the 60s version, specifically 65-67.


----------



## turbotime

tommygun711 said:


> he beat Norton decisively in the second fight. and Norton does not equal Lewis. Totally different styles. Not to mention it was in his second career when he are talking about the 60s version, specifically 65-67.


So when light heavyweight Cooper almost had him KTFO? There is no one on Ali's "prime" resume that Lewis wouldn't handle with ease. Moore? Patterson? Lulz.


----------



## tommygun711

turbotime said:


> So when light heavyweight Cooper almost had him KTFO? There is no one on Ali's "prime" resume that Lewis wouldn't handle with ease. Moore? Patterson? Lulz.


Why even bring up Norton when that isn't prime Ali. Or Cooper for that matter. He hadn't developed and matured by the time he cut up Cooper the first time, second time he did it he beat the fuck outta him with no controversy at all.

Lewis does not handle Liston with ease. Everyone on prime Lewis's resume, Ali would beat as well. Don't use that argument cause it doesn't work.

anyway yeah Ali would beat him clearly, just too great.


----------



## turbotime

tommygun711 said:


> Why even bring up Norton when that isn't prime Ali. Or Cooper for that matter. He hadn't developed and matured by the time he cut up Cooper the first time, second time he did it he beat the fuck outta him with no controversy at all.
> 
> Lewis does not handle Liston with ease. Everyone on prime Lewis's resume, Ali would beat as well. Don't use that argument cause it doesn't work.
> 
> anyway yeah Ali would beat him clearly,* just too great*.


This last bit made me chuckle real nice. He'd have beaten Liston easily too if Liston agreed to throw their fights.


----------



## tommygun711

turbotime said:


> This last bit made me chuckle real nice. He'd have beaten Liston easily too if Liston agreed to throw their fights.


There's nothing really funny about it. I don't think Lewis has the style to really beat Ali. Ali was so varied. He would outjab Lewis despite being the smaller guy. Lewis would not knock him out. He would give Lewis constant movement, and throw tons of combos to set off his rhythm. I think Ali is head and shoulders above all HWs, a totally special fighter.

And you're always taking my words out of context. I never said EASY. I don't think any HW beats Lewis so easy. but Ali would do it clearly. 8-4 type decision.

On Liston: no concrete evidence that either fights were fixed. Just alot of speculation.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> Fucking hell. LEWIS #1 even tho ali would whoop him.


Regardless of weather or not I think Lewis will beat Ali, the fact remain that greatness does not equal H2H superiority.
Roy Jones Jr H2H could possibly beat Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore etc... He is nowhere near their greatness.

Ali could possibly beat Evander Holyfield H2H, but he is not as great as Evander.


----------



## dyna

This is my reaction about Holyfield on #3 .









#JohnRuiz

Also ofcourse Holyfield is greater than Ali.
One is a heavyweight that got KTFO by a lightheavyweight. (Ali-Cooper)
The other is a lightheavyweight who KTFO a heavyweight. (Holyfield-Tyson)

It's easy.
#Holyfield the truth also.


----------



## dyna

If Liston got KOd by an arm punch from a retreating Ali, Lewis would KO him like Bob Foster KOd Dick Tiger.


----------



## Theron

dyna said:


> This is my reaction about Holyfield on #3 .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #JohnRuiz
> 
> Also ofcourse Holyfield is greater than Ali.
> *One is a heavyweight that got KTFO by a lightheavyweight. (Ali-Cooper)
> The other is a lightheavyweight who KTFO a heavyweight. (Holyfield-Tyson)*
> 
> It's easy.
> #Holyfield the truth also.


:huh, KTFO mean Knocked The Fuck Out, Ali got knocked down by Cooper and got saved by the bell and he was up quick anyway.

Then went on to beat him..


----------



## dyna

Theron said:


> :huh, KTFO mean Knocked The Fuck Out, Ali got knocked down by Cooper and got saved by the bell and he was up quick anyway.
> 
> *Then went on to beat him*..


Not without the help of smelling salts which were illegal in England,
Ali lost that bout.


----------



## Theron

dyna said:


> Not without the help of smelling salts which were illegal in England,
> Ali lost that bout.


Not really cause nothing happened further about the smelling salts.

Even without them Ali would of most likely been fine, he gained his senses back quickly after each of the times he got knocked down in his career and the break inbetween the round would have still been enough for him to regain some of his senses and stay away from Cooper for a little while if he still needed to when the round began.


----------



## PityTheFool

Lol at everyone who never saw this coming.:lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Theron said:


> *Not really cause nothing happened further about the smelling salts. *
> 
> Even without them Ali would of most likely been fine, he gained his senses back quickly after each of the times he got knocked down in his career and the break inbetween the round would have still been enough for him to regain some of his senses and stay away from Cooper for a little while if he still needed to when the round began.


 I like reading your posts, but you missed the point on that one.
The most common complain regarding Ali-Cooper was not that Ali used smelling salt TO RECOVER, but that Ali should have lost the moment HE USED IT.
I think most people believed that Ali could have beaten Cooper even without the smelling salt and the 'recovery' claims were overblown. The point is that it is ILLEGAL to use it at all in England and he should have lost the moment he started to use it. That is blatant cheating and pretty outrageous.
Of course their excuse was that they didn't know the rules in England, but that's pretty ignorant on Dundee's part. Ali should have a legitimate loss to Cooper on his great resume.Furthermore, the circumstances in which Ali used the salt DO cause some concern. I think MOST people do believe that Ali could beat Cooper without the salts, but the fact remain he was still in some trouble.

Example:
Lewis-Tua.
Say in Round 10, Lewis swallowed a pill and continue to beat up Tua for two more rounds. The pill was illegal. Lewis should have been DQED, but at least the circumstances does not indicate Lewis needed the pill.

Lewis-Vitali
Say the fight kept on going, but Lewis swallowed a pill in Round 6. The pill was illegal. Lewis should have been DQED AND the circumstances work against him too.He was in a tough fight.

Regardless, if the pill was illegal, Lewis should be under investigation.


----------



## tommygun711

@FelixTrinidad Sounds like alot of hypothetical bs, ali came back to cut cooper up, ali eliminated any trace of controversy in the rematch.

Ali with his great recuperative powers would have came back anyways. Honestly. Coopers entire legacy is based on that moment and getting robbed by bugner. Ali did what he had to do.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> @FelixTrinidad Sounds like alot of hypothetical bs, ali came back to cut cooper up, ali eliminated any trace of controversy in the rematch.
> 
> Ali with his great recuperative powers would have came back anyways. Honestly. Coopers entire legacy is based on that moment and getting robbed by bugner. Ali did what he had to do.


Only Siths deal in absolutes.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> Regardless of weather or not I think Lewis will beat Ali, the fact remain that greatness does not equal H2H superiority.
> Roy Jones Jr H2H could possibly beat Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore etc... He is nowhere near their greatness.
> 
> Ali could possibly beat Evander Holyfield H2H, but he is not as great as Evander.


Ali has a better resume than both. Much greater fighter. Not only is he a better boxer he's just a better HW.


----------



## SJS20

Lennox Lewis would of always been a problem for Muhammad Ali.


----------



## tommygun711

SJS20 said:


> Lennox Lewis would of always been a problem for Muhammad Ali.


thats fine but do you think Ali at least wins?

I see an 8-4 7-5 type technical fight that is largely controlled by Ali's speed & superior jab.


----------



## SJS20

tommygun711 said:


> thats fine but do you think Ali at least wins?
> 
> I see an 8-4 7-5 type technical fight that is largely controlled by Ali's speed & superior jab.


I do, Ali was a bigger man than people seem to remember, I think he takes the early rounds because he pops his jab off quicker than Lewis at first, who then adjusts his own timing to pull it level going into the championship rounds. If I had to pick a HW to pull though in championship rounds, I can't really see past Ali.


----------



## Theron

FelixTrinidad said:


> I like reading your posts, but you missed the point on that one.
> The most common complain regarding Ali-Cooper was not that Ali used smelling salt TO RECOVER, but that Ali should have lost the moment HE USED IT.
> I think most people believed that Ali could have beaten Cooper even without the smelling salt and the 'recovery' claims were overblown. The point is that it is ILLEGAL to use it at all in England and he should have lost the moment he started to use it. That is blatant cheating and pretty outrageous.
> Of course their excuse was that they didn't know the rules in England, but that's pretty ignorant on Dundee's part. Ali should have a legitimate loss to Cooper on his great resume.Furthermore, the circumstances in which Ali used the salt DO cause some concern. I think MOST people do believe that Ali could beat Cooper without the salts, but the fact remain he was still in some trouble.
> 
> Example:
> Lewis-Tua.
> Say in Round 10, Lewis swallowed a pill and continue to beat up Tua for two more rounds. The pill was illegal. Lewis should have been DQED, but at least the circumstances does not indicate Lewis needed the pill.
> 
> Lewis-Vitali
> Say the fight kept on going, but Lewis swallowed a pill in Round 6. The pill was illegal. Lewis should have been DQED AND the circumstances work against him too.He was in a tough fight.
> 
> Regardless, if the pill was illegal, Lewis should be under investigation.


I'm talking about how Dyna said that Holyfield is greater than Ali cause Ali was knocked down by a lightheavyweight and because Holyfield knocked out Tyson.

Even though Tyson was past his prime.
And Ali did get knocked down but that was it smelling salts or not next round he smacked Cooper to a bloody mess and then beat him again after that.

His argument just didnt make any sense


----------



## Bogotazo

FelixTrinidad said:


> Only Siths deal in absolutes.


Then with that statement, you join their ranks.


----------



## dyna

Theron said:


> I'm talking about how Dyna said that Holyfield is greater than Ali cause Ali was knocked down by a lightheavyweight and because Holyfield knocked out Tyson.
> 
> Even though Tyson was past his prime.
> And Ali did get knocked down but that was it smelling salts or not next round he smacked Cooper to a bloody mess and then beat him again after that.
> 
> His argument just didnt make any sense












And down goes Ali

Edit:Also you don't know if Ali would have survived the next round if he didn't use smelling salts because that never happened, he cheated and should have been disqualified instantly.
If Lewis suddenly did a 3 punch Golota-esque combo on Tua's nuts in the 11th round and the ref counts Tua out, is that a win for Lewis? Hell no it's not because he obviously cheated.
Lewis is the better man and would beat Tua in the rematch but if he low blowed Tua he doesn't win, it's cheating and cheaters don't deserve the win.


----------



## turbotime

Ali nuthuggers shook up :lol:


----------



## dyna

Is Duran better than Buchanan?
Yes.
Did Duran beat Buchanan?
No, because the KO blow was a punch to the groin.
Would Duran beat him in the rematch?
Yes
Conclusion:
Duran should have still lost because he cheated the win.

Is Ali better than Cooper?
Yes (probably)
Did Ali beat Cooper the first time?
No, because he cheated. Smelling salts should have been an instant DQ.
Did Ali beat him in the rematch?
Yes
Conclusion:
Ali is 1-1 against Cooper.


----------



## TSOL

dyna said:


> Is Duran better than Buchanan?
> Yes.
> Did Duran beat Buchanan?
> No, because the KO blow was a punch to the groin.
> Would Duran beat him in the rematch?
> Yes
> Conclusion:
> Duran should have still lost because he cheated the win.


its weird though cause the bell rang and buchanon was still swinging at duran, who was grabbed by the ref as he threw that punch back.
buchanon lost like every rnd anyway.


----------



## TSOL

dyna said:


> Also ofcourse Holyfield is greater than Ali.
> One is a heavyweight that got KTFO by a lightheavyweight. (Ali-Cooper)
> The other is a lightheavyweight who KTFO a heavyweight. (Holyfield-Tyson)
> 
> It's easy.
> #Holyfield the truth also.


if Ali "lost" cause of the salts his corner opened up for him, Evan Fie-I mean Holyfield should've been DQ'd for the headbutts

can't believe you went there atsch:rofl


----------



## PivotPunch

No you can't defend Ali for the smelling slat thing while this isn't a serious thread he should have lost. Saying it's ok that Ali took smelling salts is like saying it's ok for a fighter to take steroids or amphetamines for a fight. Dundee wasn't dumb of course he knew it was illegal he was just smart enough to do everything to save Ali and it worked but you can't tell me he didn't know he was doing something illegal. It was cheating, period.


----------



## tommygun711

dyna said:


> Is Duran better than Buchanan?
> Yes.
> Did Duran beat Buchanan?
> No, because the KO blow was a punch to the groin.
> Would Duran beat him in the rematch?
> Yes
> Conclusion:
> Duran should have still lost because he cheated the win.
> 
> Is Ali better than Cooper?
> Yes (probably)
> Did Ali beat Cooper the first time?
> No, because he cheated. Smelling salts should have been an instant DQ.
> Did Ali beat him in the rematch?
> Yes
> Conclusion:
> Ali is 1-1 against Cooper.


Those fights were still won by Ali and Duran when its all said and done. Ali smoked Cooper in a rematch and eliminated any scent of controversy; if he never rematched cooper you might have a case.


----------



## dyna

tommygun711 said:


> Those fights were still won by Ali and Duran when its all said and done. Ali smoked Cooper in a rematch and eliminated any scent of controversy; if he never rematched cooper you might have a case.


So if you win the rematch it's ok to have cheated in the first match?
Smelling salts should have been an instant DQ, regardless of the rematch.


----------



## tommygun711

dyna said:


> So if you win the rematch it's ok to have cheated in the first match?
> Smelling salts should have been an instant DQ, regardless of the rematch.


You act like Ali maliciously did it himself. No, that was Dundee who did the same thing except with the gloves in Thomas vs Tyson.

Knowing Ali's recuperative powers he probably would have come back strong to cut cooper up and stop him anyway.

Winning dominantly in a rematch where the first fight had some controversy definitely helps.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> You act like Ali maliciously did it himself. No, that was Dundee who did the same thing except with the gloves in Thomas vs Tyson.
> 
> Knowing Ali's recuperative powers he probably would have come back strong to cut cooper up and stop him anyway.
> 
> Winning dominantly in a rematch where the first fight had some controversy definitely helps.


 This makes no sense. You can't just say 'oh a fighter is excused' because his trainer did it. They are part of one team, one affect the other in action(but not in words).


----------



## dyna

tommygun711 said:


> You act like Ali maliciously did it himself. No, that was Dundee who did the same thing except with the gloves in Thomas vs Tyson.
> 
> Knowing Ali's recuperative powers he probably would have come back strong to cut cooper up and stop him anyway.
> 
> Winning dominantly in a rematch where the first fight had some controversy definitely helps.


So if your trainer does it it's suddenly ok?
If Dundee shot Cooper would that have been ok?
If Dundee injected Ali with steroids without telling Ali exactly what he's injecting is that ok?

It's not about what would have happened if it didn't happen, it's about what happened.
And Ali's corner cheated.

Also Golota was putting a beating on Bowe, do you think it should have been a KO win just because Golota was winning?
No you don't think that, why the double standard with Ali?


----------



## tommygun711

dyna said:


> So if your trainer does it it's suddenly ok?
> If Dundee shot Cooper would that have been ok?
> If Dundee injected Ali with steroids without telling Ali exactly what he's injecting is that ok?


:rofl Get the fuck out of here dude. Those are all extremes



> It's not about what would have happened if it didn't happen, it's about what happened.


Right. And ali whooped his ass the next round. we know about ali's reserve.



> Also Golota was putting a beating on Bowe, do you think it should have been a KO win just because Golota was winning?
> No you don't think that, why the double standard with Ali?


Completely different and you know it, lol...


----------



## dyna

tommygun711 said:


> :rofl Get the fuck out of here dude. Those are all extremes
> Right. And ali whooped his ass the next round. we know about ali's reserve.
> Completely different and you know it, lol...


Do I deny that Ali whooped him the second time?
No.
Does that excuse Dundee's use of smelling salts?
No it does not.

The first Cooper win should have been a DQ loss unless you don't believe the rules of boxing.
I'm not saying Ali wasn't going to win anyway, all I'm saying is that according to the rules of boxing Ali should have been disqualified that night.
At worst it should be changed to a NC.


----------



## tommygun711

dyna said:


> Do I deny that Ali whooped him the second time?
> No.
> Does that excuse Dundee's use of smelling salts?
> No it does not.
> 
> The first Cooper win should have been a DQ loss unless you don't believe the rules of boxing.
> I'm not saying Ali wasn't going to win anyway, all I'm saying is that according to the rules of boxing Ali should have been disqualified that night.
> At worst it should be changed to a NC.


No, you misread. I meant the very next round, Ali cut him to smithereens. Cooper's fragile pale skin was always a handicap and would have always made him lose vs Ali.

I don't consider it anymore than a fluke. Like I said the rematch eliminates alot of the controversy because Ali just got caught when he was clowning. he turned it up the very next round and proved Cooper wasn't in his class.


----------



## dyna

@tommygun711
Be fair, we both know James Toney whooped John Ruiz.
We both know that James Toney would have won regardless of steroids used.

Yet it's still a NC and not a W for Toney?
Why?
Because he cheated.

Why do you give Ali a preferential treatment?


----------



## dyna

tommygun711 said:


> No, you misread. I meant the very next round, Ali cut him to smithereens. Cooper's fragile pale skin was always a handicap and would have always made him lose vs Ali.
> 
> I don't consider it anymore than a fluke. Like I said the rematch eliminates alot of the controversy because Ali just got caught when he was clowning. he turned it up the very next round and proved Cooper wasn't in his class.


So do you or don't you think Ali should have been DQd?

I have a feeling we're both arguing about something different.
I'm not saying there's a controversy who's better or not, only that cheaters don't deserve to win.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> Fucking hell. LEWIS #1 even tho ali would whoop him.












I'm a huge fan of both Ali and Frazier. But after watching their fights again because of this thread, I'm now more than a little skeptical in regards to how they will do against modern Heavys.

Just watch the highlights. It seem as if Lewis and Mercer are both moving in hyper speed and Ali/Frazier are both moving in slow motion. Both Lewis and Mercer also look like monsters compared to Ali/Frazier. It doesn't even seem like the same weight Divisions.


----------



## dyna

FelixTrinidad said:


> I'm a huge fan of both Ali and Frazier. But after watching their fights again because of this thread, I'm now more than a little skeptical in regards to how they will do against modern Heavys.
> 
> Just watch the highlights. *It seem as if Lewis and Mercer are both moving in hyper speed and Ali/Frazier are both moving in slow motion. Both Lewis and Mercer also look like monsters compared to Ali/Frazier. It doesn't even seem like the same weight Divisions.*


One of the Ali nuthuggers will probably mention that Larry Holmes also beat Mercer to refute your claim that Lewis is so much better than Ali.
What they ofcourse will forget is that Larry Holmes totally whooped Ali and made him quit!!!


----------



## MadcapMaxie

dyna said:


> One of the Ali nuthuggers will probably mention that Larry Holmes also beat Mercer to refute your claim that Lewis is so much better than Ali.
> *What they ofcourse will forget is that Larry Holmes totally whooped Ali and made him quit!!!*


:lol: Shut up you godamn fool


----------



## TSOL

FelixTrinidad said:


> . It seem as if Lewis and Mercer are both moving in hyper speed and Ali/Frazier are both moving in slow motion.


the fuck outta here :lol:

trolling or not

gtfo


----------



## MadcapMaxie

FelixTrinidad said:


> I'm a huge fan of both Ali and Frazier. But after watching their fights again because of this thread, I'm now more than a little skeptical in regards to how they will do against modern Heavys.
> 
> Just watch the highlights. It seem as if Lewis and Mercer are both moving in hyper speed and Ali/Frazier are both moving in slow motion. Both Lewis and Mercer also look like monsters compared to Ali/Frazier. It doesn't even seem like the same weight Divisions.


2 can play at that Felix

Here's Lewis getting KO'd by a crack addict with no teeth.






Here's club fighter Hashim Rahman KOing Lewis with ease. See the glass go everywhere?






Here's Lewis fighting Zeljko "Big Bum" Mavrovic






VS

Ali KOing top 10 All Time Heavyweight Sonny Liston in 1 round






Ali KOing another top 10 All Time HW Foreman who Lennox ducked as an old man






Here's Ali stopping another top 10 all time HW in Frazier






I think the gap in quality is vast just like my girth.


----------



## dyna

MadcapMaxie said:


> :lol: Shut up you godamn fool


All I said was 100% right.

Holmes beat an Ali who was still ranked in the top 10 and made him quit.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

MadcapMaxie said:


> 2 can play at that Felix
> 
> Here's Lewis getting KO'd by a crack addict with no teeth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's club fighter Hashim Rahman KOing Lewis with ease. See the glass go everywhere?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's Lewis fighting Zeljko "Big Bum" Mavrovic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VS
> 
> Ali KOing top 10 All Time Heavyweight Sonny Liston in 1 round
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ali KOing another top 10 All Time HW Foreman who Lennox ducked as an old man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's Ali stopping another top 10 all time HW in Frazier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the gap in quality is vast just like my girth.


Rahman did knock the fuck out of Lewis. 
Lewis of course KTFO out of Rahman as well.

Of course in H2H'S we take the best versions of every fighter.

Although Lewis did manage to avenge both defeats, to Ali's credit he also avenged his defeats against Frazier/Norton.
Ali is one of the greatest Heavyweights of all times and have an amazing amount of qualities. We all know this.

But it's nut fucks like yourself at times(not always, most times you are reasonable) and other bat jobs that put these old timers on such a mountain peak that it screams absurdity. I already ranked Ali as a top 10 ATG. That's based on resume and historical impact. In actual H2H?

Ali would have had 10+ losses during the 90's if he had to go through this:
Lewis
Holyfield
Tyson
Bowe
Mercer
Tua
Moorer
Ike
Ruddock
Morrison
Bruno
Tucker

I will pick 6'5 Tony Tucker to KO Norton,Quarry,Williams,and Zora Folley.


----------



## tommygun711

dyna said:


> All I said was 100% right.
> 
> Holmes beat an Ali who was still ranked in the top 10 and made him quit.


a fucking shot Ali. shut up already... and dundee stopped it, ali didn't quit



FelixTrinidad said:


> Ali would have had 10+ losses during the 90's if he had to go through this:
> Lewis
> Holyfield
> Tyson
> Bowe
> Mercer
> Tua
> Moorer
> Ike
> Ruddock
> Morrison
> Bruno
> Tucker
> I will pick 6'5 Tony Tucker to KO Norton,Quarry,Williams,and Zora Folley.


Thats your opinion. Most people would take Ali over all of those guys. seriously. Ali wouldn't have 10+ losses, to who exactly? :lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> a fucking shot Ali. shut up already... and dundee stopped it, ali didn't quit
> 
> Thats your opinion. Most people would take Ali over all of those guys. seriously. Ali wouldn't have 10+ losses, to who exactly? :lol:


 I went overboard on the 10+ losses comment, but Ali would have had multiple losses if he fought during the 90's. Here is a list of people that will probably beat Ali:
Lewis
Bowe
Tyson
Holyfield
Mercer

Here is a list of people that will be live dogs against Ali:
Ruddock
Morrison
Bruno
Ike
Tua
Byrd
Tucker
Biggs
Briggs
Moorer

He won't have 10+ losses, but he sure will have at least 5+.


----------



## SamO408

TSOL said:


> the fuck outta here :lol:
> 
> trolling or not
> 
> gtfo


Good lord that's some beautiful combo work
I've never seen another heavy come close to that speed and precision. Absolutely spectacular


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> I went overboard on the 10+ losses comment, but Ali would have had multiple losses if he fought during the 90's. Here is a list of people that will probably beat Ali:
> Lewis
> Bowe
> Tyson
> Holyfield
> Mercer


You will find that you are in the minority here. Ali doesn't lose against fucking Mercer. Seriously get the fuck outta here with that shit Felix. How is he going to beat Ali? To beat Ali you have to be a pressure fighter of Frazier's quality or you're likely fucked.

Holyfield gets beat. Ali would outbox him with his longer reach and find the mark with his jab with great frequency. He'd decision Holy.

Bowe gets outboxed. He gets beat to the punch and outjabbed.

Tyson in the 90s is exactly the kind of slugger/puncher Ali would capitalize on.

Lewis IMO has the best chance out of anyone there but I think he likely gets decisioned in a technical fight. Close fight, something like 8-4.



> Here is a list of people that will be live dogs against Ali:
> Ruddock
> Morrison
> Bruno
> Ike
> Tua
> Byrd
> Tucker
> Biggs
> Briggs
> Moorer


Those all get beat. Gtfo with the 5+ losses shit. Ali proved time and time again you have to be more than a puncher to win the fight. Rudduck, Morrison, Bruno Tua, Briggs all get whooped. Why would Biggs, who is a bad Ali clone at best, have a chance against Ali? Who did Tucker ever beat to compare to Ali? Glass chinned Moorer has a chance against Ali? Ok Felix.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> You will find that you are in the minority here. Ali doesn't lose against fucking Mercer. Seriously get the fuck outta here with that shit Felix. How is he going to beat Ali? To beat Ali you have to be a pressure fighter of Frazier's quality or you're likely fucked.
> 
> Holyfield gets beat. Ali would outbox him with his longer reach and find the mark with his jab with great frequency. He'd decision Holy.
> 
> Bowe gets outboxed. He gets beat to the punch and outjabbed.
> 
> Tyson in the 90s is exactly the kind of slugger/puncher Ali would capitalize on.
> 
> Lewis IMO has the best chance out of anyone there but I think he likely gets decisioned in a technical fight. Close fight, something like 8-4.
> 
> Those all get beat. Gtfo with the 5+ losses shit. Ali proved time and time again you have to be more than a puncher to win the fight. Rudduck, Morrison, Bruno Tua, Briggs all get whooped. Why would Biggs, who is a bad Ali clone at best, have a chance against Ali? Who did Tucker ever beat to compare to Ali? Glass chinned Moorer has a chance against Ali? Ok Felix.


 Damn you going NUTS! Calm down and at least discuss this in a civil manner ok!!!!.

1-Ray Mercer WAS a Frazier like fighter. He applied amazing pressure,had a great jab,great body work,and an granite chin. He was also bigger than Frazier,stronger,and overall rougher on the inside. He didn't have the head movement of Frazier but he applied pressure just as well. His chin and endless body work+stamina will give Ali an incredibly tough fight.

2-Ali would be suckered into a brawl against Holyfield and Holyfield will easily prevail in that scenario. Stop talking as if Holyfield was some poor man's Quarry or something. Holyfield would be hands down the most SKILLED fighter Ali ever fought.

3-Bowe is just too big for Ali. He's like a giant version of Frazier,except he's got a granite chin. If a 5'10 version of Bowe managed to almost knock Ali out and give Ali 3 amazing fights, what would a 6'5 240 pound version of Frazier do?

4- Did Ali face punchers?Yes. Did he beat them? Yes.
Did he face punchers with the size and strength of Tua.Ruddock,Bruno,Morrison,Ike etc etc? Outside of a mentally unstable Foreman, no he did not.

Ike was 240 pounds man. You talking about Ali fighting punchers like Ernie Shavers. Who throw one hard shot at a time and had half the strength of guys like Ike,who would throw vicious punches in combinations.

I'm not saying Ali will LOSE to any of them in a H2H, I'm saying that if he fought in that era the way he fought in the 60's and 70's(against all comers) he will lose at least 5+.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> 1-Ray Mercer WAS a Frazier like fighter. He applied amazing pressure,had a great jab,great body work,and an granite chin. He was also bigger than Frazier,stronger,and overall rougher on the inside. He didn't have the head movement of Frazier but he applied pressure just as well. His chin and endless body work+stamina will give Ali an incredibly tough fight.


Felix, just because Mercer has an impressive performance against Lewis doesn't mean he'd give Ali so much trouble. Who is the best fighter Mercer beat? It's got to be Morrison, Damiani, old Witherspoon and Ferguson. He doesn't have the credentials. I loved watching Mercer fight but he's not in even Frazier's class, fuck off with that. You don't have any basis for saying that. Mercer wasn't as great as an inside as Frazier, didn't have Frazier's left hook, or his gas tank. He got outboxed by old Larry Holmes and Ferguson for gods sake. He's way too inconsistent. He wouldn't beat Ali. Next.



> 2-Ali would be suckered into a brawl against Holyfield and Holyfield will easily prevail in that scenario. Stop talking as if Holyfield was some poor man's Quarry or something. Holyfield would be hands down the most SKILLED fighter Ali ever fought.


Why exactly would Ali be suckered into a brawl? When did this happen to prime Ali? Ali would have no issue outboxing Holyfield to a clear decision. Ali was usually very disciplined and would have no problem in a brawl either, he could slug when he needed to. Never insinuated that he was on Quarry's level but if you actually know me you know I love Holyfield. It's a stylistic thing though. Holyfield struggled against awkward fighters and I think Ali would be no exception.

By the way.. If we're talking about purely just skill, what makes Holyfield more skilled than Patterson? Or Holmes?


> Bowe is just too big for Ali. He's like a giant version of Frazier,except he's got a granite chin. If a 5'10 version of Bowe managed to almost knock Ali out and give Ali 3 amazing fights, what would a 6'5 240 pound version of Frazier do?


Garbage argument, Felix. Bowe isn't a 6'5 240 LB version of Frazier. He's much different and you know that. Just because he fought on the inside doesn't mean he's anything like Frazier. Bowe let himself get outjabbed by Holyfield so Ali will be able to do the same goddamn thing except he will lace his own combinations together like Holyfield did, and



> Ike was 240 pounds man. You talking about Ali fighting punchers like Earnie Shavers. Who throw one hard shot at a time and had half the strength of guys like Ike,who would throw vicious punches in combinations.


Really your whole argument revolves around them being bigger? When you take the shots of Shavers who is known as one of (if not THE) hardest HW puncher of all time then it's likely the same shit with all of the punchers you named.



> I'm not saying Ali will LOSE to any of them in a H2H, I'm saying that if he fought in that era the way he fought in the 60's and 70's(against all comers) he will lose at least 5+.


The 70s was just as strong if not stronger than the 90s, so I don't think so. Just because they were bigger doesn't make them better.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> Felix, just because Mercer has an impressive performance against Lewis doesn't mean he'd give Ali so much trouble. Who is the best fighter Mercer beat? It's got to be Morrison, Damiani, old Witherspoon and Ferguson. He doesn't have the credentials. I loved watching Mercer fight but he's not in even Frazier's class, fuck off with that. You don't have any basis for saying that. Mercer wasn't as great as an inside as Frazier, didn't have Frazier's left hook, or his gas tank. He got outboxed by old Larry Holmes and Ferguson for gods sake. He's way too inconsistent. He wouldn't beat Ali. Next.
> 
> Why exactly would Ali be suckered into a brawl? When did this happen to prime Ali? Ali would have no issue outboxing Holyfield to a clear decision. Ali was usually very disciplined and would have no problem in a brawl either, he could slug when he needed to. Never insinuated that he was on Quarry's level but if you actually know me you know I love Holyfield. It's a stylistic thing though. Holyfield struggled against awkward fighters and I think Ali would be no exception.
> 
> Garbage argument, Felix. Bowe isn't a 6'5 240 LB version of Frazier. He's much different and you know that. Just because he fought on the inside doesn't mean he's anything like Frazier. Bowe let himself get outjabbed by Holyfield so Ali will be able to do the same goddamn thing except he will lace his own combinations together like Holyfield did, and
> 
> Really your whole argument revolves around them being bigger? When you take the shots of Shavers who is known as one of (if not THE) hardest HW puncher of all time then it's likely the same shit with all of the punchers you named.
> 
> The 70s was just as strong if not stronger than the 90s, so I don't think so. Just because they were bigger doesn't make them bigger.


 No, listen to me. I am not saying Prime Ali would lose 5+. I am saying if Ali had his career during the 90's stretch, he will lose 5+. This is based on his own persona,the way he takes on fights,and the fact he will fight all comers. He fought EVERYONE during the 60's and 70's.. Which means that's his mindset. He will naturally fight everyone during the 90's and the end result is he will have a lot more losses than the 60's-70's stretch.

Young Ali would basically be fighting against Prime Bowe,Prime Tyson, Young Lewis, Prime Tucker, etc etc. Prime Ali would be fighting against the likes of Bruno,Morrison,Prime Holyfield,Mercer etc etc. Older and faded 70's version of Ali would have to deal with Young Vitali,Prime Tua,Ike,Prime Lewis, etc etc.
You take that Ali timeline from 60's-70's and put him in the 90's starting from 1990-2000? He will be hit with multiple losses. Now if he had careful match making like the vast majority of Heavyweights do? Than yes of course he could go undefeated,but there is no way in hell he can duplicate the 'fight all comers' mentality that he had during the 60's/70's and hope to survive in the 90's. No way.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> Felix, just because Mercer has an impressive performance against Lewis doesn't mean he'd give Ali so much trouble. Who is the best fighter Mercer beat? It's got to be Morrison, Damiani, old Witherspoon and Ferguson. He doesn't have the credentials. I loved watching Mercer fight but he's not in even Frazier's class, fuck off with that. You don't have any basis for saying that. Mercer wasn't as great as an inside as Frazier, didn't have Frazier's left hook, or his gas tank. He got outboxed by old Larry Holmes and Ferguson for gods sake. He's way too inconsistent. He wouldn't beat Ali. Next.
> 
> Why exactly would Ali be suckered into a brawl? When did this happen to prime Ali? Ali would have no issue outboxing Holyfield to a clear decision. Ali was usually very disciplined and would have no problem in a brawl either, he could slug when he needed to. Never insinuated that he was on Quarry's level but if you actually know me you know I love Holyfield. It's a stylistic thing though. Holyfield struggled against awkward fighters and I think Ali would be no exception.
> 
> By the way.. If we're talking about purely just skill, what makes Holyfield more skilled than Patterson? Or Holmes?
> 
> Garbage argument, Felix. Bowe isn't a 6'5 240 LB version of Frazier. He's much different and you know that. Just because he fought on the inside doesn't mean he's anything like Frazier. Bowe let himself get outjabbed by Holyfield so Ali will be able to do the same goddamn thing except he will lace his own combinations together like Holyfield did, and
> 
> Really your whole argument revolves around them being bigger? When you take the shots of Shavers who is known as one of (if not THE) hardest HW puncher of all time then it's likely the same shit with all of the punchers you named.
> 
> The 70s was just as strong if not stronger than the 90s, so I don't think so. *Just because they were bigger doesn't make them better*.


 I never said it did. It wasn't just that they were bigger, but that they had a lot of skills as well. I'm not saying fucking Tyson Fury can beat Joe Frazier. I'm not saying Mariuz Wach can beat Ken Norton. What I'm saying is that Ike Ibeabuchi(a 2nd tier 90's fighter) would most likely fuck up Ernie Shavers(a 2nd tier 60's-70's fighter). I'm saying that David Tua would most likely fucking kill Jerry Quarry. The 2nd tier was STRONGER in the 90's because they had more size and they were just as skilled(some even more so).
We judge an era from 1 to 20. Not from 1 to 5. Of course from 1 to 5, the 60's-70's might even be better than the 90's. But from 6-20? 90's hands down.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> No, listen to me. I am not saying Prime Ali would lose 5+. I am saying if Ali had his career during the 90's stretch, he will lose 5+. This is based on his own persona,the way he takes on fights,and the fact he will fight all comers. He fought EVERYONE during the 60's and 70's.. Which means that's his mindset. He will naturally fight everyone during the 90's and the end result is he will have a lot more losses than the 60's-70's stretch.
> 
> Young Ali would basically be fighting against Prime Bowe,Prime Tyson, Young Lewis, Prime Tucker, etc etc. Prime Ali would be fighting against the likes of Bruno,Morrison,Prime Holyfield,Mercer etc etc. Older and faded 70's version of Ali would have to deal with Young Vitali,Prime Tua,Ike,Prime Lewis, etc etc.
> You take that Ali timeline from 60's-70's and put him in the 90's starting from 1990-2000? He will be hit with multiple losses. Now if he had careful match making like the vast majority of Heavyweights do? Than yes of course he could go undefeated,but there is no way in hell he can duplicate the 'fight all comers' mentality that he had during the 60's/70's and hope to survive in the 90's. No way.


So which HW in history could go through someone's era and just clean it up and go undefeated? What you're saying is unreasonable. Lewis himself couldn't do it without getting KTFO'd and he never fought Bowe or prime versions of Holyfield and Tyson.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> So which HW in history could go through someone's era and just clean it up and go undefeated? What you're saying is unreasonable. Lewis himself couldn't do it without getting KTFO'd and he never fought Bowe or prime versions of Holyfield and Tyson.


 No Heavyweight could. I'm saying that if we use the same timeline, Ali would go through Lewis's era with a lot more losses than Lewis. Same time line.


----------



## tommygun711

Jerry Quarry gets killed by Tua? Not really he could fuck around and get outboxed. Quarry was a real good boxer.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> No Heavyweight could. I'm saying that if we use the same timeline, Ali would go through Lewis's era with a lot more losses than Lewis. Same time line.


I don't think that's the case at all. You think Mercer "probably" beats Ali though so I don't know if I need to keep talking to you.

Going by the same retarded logic Lewis would get a shit ton of losses if he went through Ali's timeline.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> I don't think that's the case at all. *You think Mercer "probably" beats Ali *though so I don't know if I need to keep talking to you.
> 
> Going by the same retarded logic Lewis would get a shit ton of losses if he went through Ali's timeline.


 Ray Mercer at his very best will have a shot at beating Ali and will have even more of a shot at beating Frazier. I don't know if you are under estimating Mercer or over estimating Frazier but that is a lot more of a 50/50 fight than you think. Mercer was bigger,stronger,had a better chin,and applied great pressure. He had a better jab too and at his very best could neutralize a lot of Joe's hooks. Joe would have to apply an insane work rate against Mercer to keep Mercer off him and will actually have to box Mercer.
Styles make fights, the styles of the 90's are horrible for the 70's guys. It really is.

Think about this: 
Tony Tucker is a awkard angled 6'5 230 pound fighter who have a cast granite chin and very good boxing skills. Name me one fighter Ali fought who was of that mold? 
Styles make fights. Just because Ali is 'greater' than some of these 90's fighters don't mean he will win.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> Ray Mercer at his very best will have a shot at beating Ali and will have even more of a shot at beating Frazier. I don't know if you are under estimating Mercer or over estimating Frazier but that is a lot more of a 50/50 fight than you think


Who did Mercer beat that is comparable to Ali and Frazier?


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> Who did Mercer beat that is comparable to Ali and *Frazier*?


He beat Tommy Morrison.

I just don't see Frazier beating Mercer.
I have mercer by mid round KO. Too powerful, explosive, and he's got that nice shotgun left jab to give Frazier absolute fits. I don't think Frazier can take Mercer's best shot, to be honest. Mercer could take a shot better in his prime then when he was pushing 50 years old. I think Mercer roughs him up on the inside and uses his usual dirty tactics to take Frazier out of his regular gameplan.

Mercer TKO7


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> He beat Tommy Morrison.
> 
> I just don't see Frazier beating Mercer.
> I have mercer by mid round KO. Too powerful, explosive, and he's got that nice shotgun left jab to give Frazier absolute fits. I don't think Frazier can take Mercer's best shot, to be honest. Mercer could take a shot better in his prime then when he was pushing 50 years old. I think Mercer roughs him up on the inside and uses his usual dirty tactics to take Frazier out of his regular gameplan.
> 
> Mercer TKO7


Morrison was nowhere near as good as frazier dude. Morrison had a glass jaw and horrible stamina yet he was still beating the breaks off of mercer for a while.

Frazier is a much better inside fighter than mercer, and more consistent. Mercer best performances are when he is losing like against lewis. Not once did he beat a fighter like frazier/ of that caliber.

Mercer also has never shown this explosive power that you're rambling about. Never stopped anybody with great durability. He was always more of an accumulative puncher.


----------



## TSOL

SamO408 said:


> Good lord that's some beautiful combo work
> I've never seen another heavy come close to that speed and precision. Absolutely spectacular


 it really is. Ali was an artist


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> Morrison was nowhere near as good as frazier dude. Morrison had a glass jaw and horrible stamina yet he was still beating the breaks off of mercer for a while.
> 
> Frazier is a much better inside fighter than mercer, and more consistent. Mercer best performances are when he is losing like against lewis. Not once did he beat a fighter like frazier/ of that caliber.
> 
> *Mercer also has never shown this explosive power that you're rambling about*. Never stopped anybody with great durability. He was always more of an accumulative puncher.


 So you are basically saying Mercer did not have explosive offense?


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> So you are basically saying Mercer did not have explosive offense?


No dont twist my words. He was a solid hitter but he wasnt a 1 punch knockout artist or even a 3 punch KO artist. The most famous KO of his was that left uppercut against francisco damiani. Most of his stoppages came from accumulation. Again this is a guy that got beat by average fighters.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> No dont twist my words. He was a solid hitter but he wasnt a 1 punch knockout artist or even a 3 punch KO artist. The most famous KO of his was that left uppercut against francisco damiani. Most of his stoppages came from accumulation.* Again this is a guy that got beat by average fighters.*


 So did a lot of fighters. That's besides the point, Ray Mercer's style is deadly against Ali. Mercer would have also beaten the vast majority of Ali's opponents. Look, let's do this ok.

Which fighter on Ali's resume outside of Foreman,Holmes,and maybe Frazier would have troubled Mercer? Mercer goes through the rest like hot knife go through butter. He's also a very live dog against Frazier. I say 40/60. Or 50/50.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> So did a lot of fighters. That's besides the point, Ray Mercer's style is deadly against Ali. Mercer would have also beaten the vast majority of Ali's opponents. Look, let's do this ok.


No, not when you get DECISIVELY beat by old Larry Holmes and fucking Jesse Ferguson. Mercer was just way too inconsistent, for some reason you're ignoring this. Way too often Mercer showed up out of shape, way too often he dropped crucial rounds. At his best Mercer was a VERY, VERY poor man's version of Sonny Liston and Ali whooped his ass.



> Which fighter on Ali's resume outside of Foreman,Holmes,and maybe Frazier would have troubled Mercer? Mercer goes through the rest like hot knife go through butter. He's also a very live dog against Frazier. I say 40/60. Or 50/50.


Really? Mercer goes through Liston like butter? He goes through Norton, Lyle, Shavers, Patterson, Chuvalo, Quarry, Mac Foster and Ernie Terrell like butter? Fuck off Felix you don't know what you're talking about. I would pick alot of those guys to BEAT Mercer.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> No, not when you get DECISIVELY beat by old Larry Holmes and fucking Jesse Ferguson. Mercer was just way too inconsistent, for some reason you're ignoring this. Way too often Mercer showed up out of shape, way too often he dropped crucial rounds. At his best Mercer was a VERY, VERY poor man's version of Sonny Liston and Ali whooped his ass.
> 
> Really? Mercer goes through Liston like butter? He goes through Norton, Lyle, Shavers, Patterson, Chuvalo, Quarry, Mac Foster and Ernie Terrell like butter? Fuck off Felix you don't know what you're talking about. I would pick alot of those guys to BEAT Mercer.


 atsch MAC FUCKING FOSTER is going to beat Prime Ray Mercer? Chuvalo? The guy who blocked punches with his face? Terrell? 6'6 210 pound string bean? Dude, come on.. you are giving Mercer too little credit.
Chuavlo could never do well with a great piston jab, he gets murdered by those jabs. He also had bad inside fighting abilities. Mercer would UD him easy. Terrell is a poor man's Tony Tucker. Mercer would do well against the ACTUAL Tony Tucker. Quarry? He's a poor man's Morrison, Mercer beat the ACTUAL MORRISON.
Look I am willing to accept the fact that Foreman/Frazier could possibly beat Mercer, but fuck off with that Quarry/Foster shit.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> atsch MAC FUCKING FOSTER is going to beat Prime Ray Mercer? Chuvalo? The guy who blocked punches with his face? Terrell? 6'6 210 pound string bean? Dude, come on.. you are giving Mercer too little credit.
> Chuavlo could never do well with a great piston jab, he gets murdered by those jabs. He also had bad inside fighting abilities. Mercer would UD him easy. Terrell is a poor man's Tony Tucker. Mercer would do well against the ACTUAL Tony Tucker. Quarry? He's a poor man's Morrison, Mercer beat the ACTUAL MORRISON.
> Look I am willing to accept the fact that Foreman/Frazier could possibly beat Mercer, but fuck off with that Quarry/Foster shit.


Mercer turned in too many inconsistent/ spotty performances for you to rate him this highly. Seriously.

I would pick Mercer over Chuvalo & Foster, sure. They wouldn't be easy fights though, at all. Chuvalo would press him all the way. Foster was a banger in his own right. but Terrell? Not too sure about that, Terrell was a very skilled boxer, he could very easily outbox Mercer seeing as Ferguson did easily. Quarry outboxed bangers like Mercer all the time so I think he could get the job done. Not even saying it would be easy, it would probably look like the Ron lyle fight to be honest. Damiani, a fighter similar to Quarry outboxed Mercer until he got caught with a freak left uppercut that broke his nose.

Also you're completely wrong about Quarry being the poor man's Morrison, 100% completely wrong, that's all there is to it. Quarry was a superior boxer-mover to Morrison. He had a better chin. Better stamina. Better boxing abilities. Morrison was better offensively and hit harder, that's it really.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> Mercer turned in too many inconsistent/ spotty performances for you to rate him this highly. Seriously.
> 
> I would pick Mercer over Chuvalo & Foster, sure. They wouldn't be easy fights though, at all. Chuvalo would press him all the way. Foster was a banger in his own right. but Terrell? Not too sure about that, Terrell was a very skilled boxer, he could very easily outbox Mercer seeing as Ferguson did easily. Quarry outboxed bangers like Mercer all the time so I think he could get the job done. Not even saying it would be easy, it would probably look like the Ron lyle fight to be honest. Damiani, a fighter similar to Quarry outboxed Mercer until he got caught with a freak left uppercut that broke his nose.
> 
> Also you're completely wrong about Quarry being the poor man's Morrison, 100% completely wrong, that's all there is to it. Quarry was a superior boxer-mover to Morrison. He had a better chin. Better stamina. Better boxing abilities. Morrison was better offensively and hit harder, that's it really.


 Fair post. That still doesn't refute my first point.

Ali's resume looked as good as it did because of the 60's-70's. If he had fought that way during the 90's and early 2000's, he would have lost a lot more.
The 90's boys punched a lot harder and had much more size. Ali's body would have been damaged far beyond repair if he had fought in the modern era.
That was my point. During the old days, Ali still managed to beat up Shavers when Ali was old and very past prime because his body didn't absorb as much punishment. If he had fought in the 90's the way he had taken on all comers during the 60's-70's, he would have been done by 1997.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> Fair post. That still doesn't refute my first point.


lol. Comparing Morrison to Quarry? Comparing Mercer to Frazier? You've been outposted, Felix. The 90s guys aren't really better than the 70s guys at all. Get that shit straight. Just because they're bigger and possibly hit harder doesn't mean they are better fighters.



> Ali's resume looked as good as it did because of the 60's-70's.


What a horrible point. Ali's resume looks so good because he was an incredible fighter. The 70s was a VERY strong era. Stop it with this revisionist BS. Next.



> If he had fought that way during the 90's and early 2000's, he would have lost a lot more.


That's your opinion, I think Ali's skill and talent, not to mention his heart and durability, and most importantly SPEED would put him far and above the 90s guys that you seem to love.



> The 90's boys punched a lot harder and had much more size.


It doesn't mean they were necessarily BETTER though. They were stronger and hit harder. Give me Frazier, Liston, Foreman, Holmes, Norton, and Lyle over ALL of the 90s guys you were talking about earlier.



> That was my point. During the old days, Ali still managed to beat up Shavers when Ali was old and very past prime because his body didn't absorb as much punishment.


:lol: He took massive fucking punishment Felix. What are you even talking about? He beat Shavers because he was a great fighter. His body took a shit ton of punishment from Frazier and all the other wars he had up until that point.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> lol. Comparing Morrison to Quarry? Comparing Mercer to Frazier? You've been outposted, Felix. The 90s guys aren't really better than the 70s guys at all. Get that shit straight. Just because they're bigger and possibly hit harder doesn't mean they are better fighters.
> 
> What a horrible point. Ali's resume looks so good because he was an incredible fighter. The 70s was a VERY strong era. Stop it with this revisionist BS. Next.
> 
> That's your opinion, I think Ali's skill and talent, not to mention his heart and durability, and most importantly SPEED would put him far and above the 90s guys that you seem to love.
> 
> It doesn't mean they were necessarily BETTER though. They were stronger and hit harder. Give me Frazier, Liston, Foreman, Holmes, Norton, and Lyle over ALL of the 90s guys you were talking about earlier.
> 
> :lol: He took massive fucking punishment Felix. What are you even talking about? He beat Shavers because he was a great fighter. His body took a shit ton of punishment from Frazier and all the other wars he had up until that point.


 The 90's boys didn't hit harder. They hit MUCH harder.

Ernie Shavers: KO ratio against 215+ fighters. 47%

*39 of Ali's opponents* could have fought in today's CRUISERWEIGHT Division.

91% of Lennox Lewis's opponents were bigger than Muhammad Ali's.
88% of Wladimir Klitschkos opponents were bigger than Muhammad Ali's.

Does bigger mean better? No. Does bigger mean harder punching? Most likely. Ali never tested himself against the hitters of 90's caliber outside of George Foreman. Shavers was a massive puncher, but there are at least 10 Heavyweights that fought during the 90's who had bigger punching power.

Morrison,Bruno,Tua,Ike,Lewis,Bowe,Tyson, all punched harder.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> The 90's boys didn't hit harder. They hit MUCH harder


Just an opinion, felix. I don't think it's that big of a difference since Ali still fought plenty of bangers. Shavers was a huge hitter and could stack up against the 90s hitters. same with foreman.



> Does bigger mean better? No. Does bigger mean harder punching? Most likely.


Not a complete fact. None of us really know FOR SURE who is the harder hitter. There isn't much difference between Shavers and the guys that you're talking about as far as power is concerned though.



> Ali never tested himself against the hitters of 90's caliber outside of George Foreman. Shavers was a massive puncher, but there are at least 10 Heavyweights that fought during the 90's who had bigger punching power.


Again this is just your opinion, when it comes to Shavers and the guys of the 90s, there isn't really much separating them. Your argument is trash. The 90s guys were bigger. that's it. Doesn't mean they hit harder than Foreman or Shavers. Get over it.

The bottom line is that Ali still had great durability and heart, and judging from his performances against the hard hitters he did fight, I'd say he would do fine against the 90s guys.


----------



## dyna

FelixTrinidad said:


> The 90's boys didn't hit harder. They hit MUCH harder.
> 
> *Ernie Shavers: KO ratio against 215+ fighters. 47%
> 
> 39 of Ali's opponents could have fought in today's CRUISERWEIGHT Division.
> 
> 91% of Lennox Lewis's opponents were bigger than Muhammad Ali's.
> 88% of Wladimir Klitschkos opponents were bigger than Muhammad Ali's.*
> 
> Does bigger mean better? No. Does bigger mean harder punching? Most likely. Ali never tested himself against the hitters of 90's caliber outside of George Foreman. Shavers was a massive puncher, but there are at least 10 Heavyweights that fought during the 90's who had bigger punching power.
> 
> Morrison,Bruno,Tua,Ike,Lewis,Bowe,Tyson, all punched harder.


FelixTrinidad suddenly turns hwblogger.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> Just an opinion, felix. I don't think it's that big of a difference since Ali still fought plenty of bangers. Shavers was a huge hitter and could stack up against the 90s hitters. same with foreman.
> 
> Not a complete fact. None of us really know FOR SURE who is the harder hitter. There isn't much difference between Shavers and the guys that you're talking about as far as power is concerned though.
> 
> Again this is just your opinion, when it comes to Shavers and the guys of the 90s, there isn't really much separating them. Your argument is trash. The 90s guys were bigger. that's it. Doesn't mean they hit harder than Foreman or Shavers. Get over it.
> 
> The bottom line is that Ali still had great durability and heart, and judging from his performances against the hard hitters he did fight, I'd say he would do fine against the 90s guys.


 Fine. Do you agree with the following statements than. Since the following is not 'opinion' but fact.

*The 90's punchers have knocked out BIGGER MEN than the 60's and 70's punchers.*
The 90's punchers have proven themselves against big men. The 60's/70's have not.

Regardless of weather you think they can or not, the fact is they haven't. THAT'S FACT.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> Fine. Do you agree with the following statements than. Since the following is not 'opinion' but fact.
> 
> *The 90's punchers have knocked out BIGGER MEN than the 60's and 70's punchers.*
> The 90's punchers have proven themselves against big men. The 60's/70's have not.
> 
> Regardless of weather you think they can or not, the fact is they haven't. THAT'S FACT.


felix i already conceded that they were bigger, that goes without saying. again, power/size is only one aspect of boxing. The 70s guys to me had better ability.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> felix i already conceded that they were bigger, that goes without saying. again, power/size is only one aspect of boxing. The 70s guys to me had better ability.


 I like your posts and enjoy debating high level boxing knowledge with you. That is why I don't use insults as I often do when speaking to inferior human beings. I view you as a 2nd tier historian as compared to a lot of the rest(who are mostly 3rd and 4th tier).

That being said, you are once again making the common mistake of sidetracking the main issues.

Main Issue:
What you said was the Ali era was more skilled than the 90's, you admit that the 90's had bigger men and punchers. What I SAID was that Ali would not have done anywhere near as well in the 90's not because of skills, but because his body would not have been able to withstand the punishment the 90's punchers would dish out. You than listed a bunch of 'punchers' Ali beat, which I counter by saying that the overall punching quality of the Ali era was far inferior to the 90's. 
The point is that Ali would have had numerous losses because he simply can't withstand the punishment the likes of Lewis,Bowe,Holyfield,Tyson,Tua,Ike,Ruddock,Morrison etc would dish out. It have nothing to do with 'skills', Ali's chin would not have been able to take the collective damage from the 90's era. 
If he was hit by Morrison the way he was hit by Shavers, he would have been knocked the fuck out. If he was hit by Lewis the way he was hit by Foreman, he would have been knocked the fuck out.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

It's absurd that people think Ali would have done as well during the 90's and early 2000's as he did during the 60's and 70's. Absurd.
The 2nd half of Ali's career, when he was getting hit a lot in every fight pitted him against:
Wepner,Lyle,Bugner,Frazier,Coopman,Young, Norton, Evangelista,and Shavers. He went 'undefeated' during that stretch.

If Ali started his career in 1990, the version of Ali that went through the above run would have been fighting around 97-03(2nd half of his career)
Looking at the top fighters from 97-03, Ali would have been thrown against Lewis,Golota,Tua,Ike,Byrd,Young Vitali and Young Wladimir.
Could Ali beat all of them during his prime? Yes. Could the mid to late 70's version of Ali beat any of them? Hell fucking no. 
He would have had 5-6 losses during that stretch in itself. 

Ali's 60's resume was well earned and you put that version of Ali into the 90's? He would do well from 1990-1997. But that 2nd part of Ali's career? Which if he was in the 90's, would have been from 97-03? He would have been brutalized.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

*#2 Lennox Lewis*










Lennox Lewis have the honor of being the only modern day HW to defeat every man he ever faced. He avenged both his fluke defeats in spectacular fashion and have a great resume.

In the case of Lennox, it is not 1 or 2 wins that stands out but his amazing collective body of work that really puts him ahead of the pack. Lewis in his 15th fight fought a undefeated power puncher name Gary Mason. Gary Mason was 35-0 with 34 Knock outs. Let's think for a moment about just how special that is.

Gary Mason's 'padded record' stage consists Tyrell Biggs, James Tillis, Lorenzo Boyd, Alfonzo Ratliff, Ricky Parkey, Donnie Long, James Pritchard, Mark Wills, Everett Martin, Louis Pergaud, Hughroy Currie, Terry Armstrong, David Jaco and Jess Harding. Compare those fights to the fighters Detontay Wilder knocked out and you will see the sheer skill difference between the two.Mason had a 99% knock out ratio heading into the Lewis fight. Lewis was a virtual youngster and he ended up knocking out the knock out artist.

Lewis went on to ko Biggs and Weaver and put up a string of very good performances before entering a 4 men elimination tournament which consisted of

Bowe-Holyfield
Lewis-Ruddock.
Razer Ruddock was one of the most feared punchers in the division and a solid favorite to beat the relatively unknown Brit. Lennox ended up destroying Ruddock in 2 rounds. What followed was one of the most despicable acts known to mankind as Riddick Big ***** Bowe decided to duck Lennox and throw his belt into the trashcan. Cheating Lewis of a possible career defining trilogy. Bowe was dominated by Lewis in the Olympics and never ever wanted to get within 200 miles of Lewis's fists ever again.
Lewis lost motivation, but still managed to come from behind and knock out Frank Bruno (who is a very solid HW and would have been champion today). He also beat Tony Tucker, who is one of the most under rated heavies of the last 3 eras, Tucker went the distance with a prime Tyson and had Tyson fighting confused for stretches.

He lost to Oliver Mccall via a debatable stoppage, regrouped and came back to dominate another underrated fighter in Tommy Morrison. Prime Ray Mercer followed. I hear some people joke about how Mercer was a split decision nail biting fight. These people don't know **** about boxing and should re watch the fight. The match was close and a prime Mercer fought his heart out, but lost steam starting from Round 5 and was eating Lewis right hands, combinations, along with long jabs to the face again and again.
Lewis-Mercer was a very competitive 7-3 affair.

Lewis went on to beat Mccall in the rematch, Lennox caused some sort of mental melt down from Mccall(some people say drugs, I say Lewis's right hand)
Lennox went on to KO the very feared Golota in one round. Golota beat the living crap out of Riddick Bowe for 2 straight fights. His low blows was disgraceful, but it don't change the fact Golota won 90% of the rounds and beat Bowe half to death.
Lewis was a under dog and knocked out Golota in 1 round.

Zeijko Mavorvic was a undefeated iron chin super champion from Europe and Lennox beat him 9-3. At best you can say it was a 8-4 fight. Zeljko had a lot of talent, heart and chin. What happened after the Lewis fight was a shame, a damn shame. To this day, Lewis was the only guy to have beaten Mavrovic, so many others tried, they all failed. With the exception of Lennox.
Prime Shannon Briggs was knocked down numerous times and destroyed by Lennox in the fifth. Some of the most surreal shoulder roll defense was shown by Lewis in that fight. A decade later, a shot Briggs went 12 with a Prime Vitali.

Lewis dominated and embarrassed a still elite Holyfield and won 10-2 on every score card imaginable to the human race. He was cheated by sand Devil Demon Don King. He went on to beat Holyfield again, albeit not as dominant as the first time.

Michael Grant was hyped beyond belief. This ****er was the original Lucian Bute of the HW'S and he was Froched by Lennox. Grant was also 6'8 and a giant super HW with great athletic abilities. People say Golota and Grant didn't do anything after Lennox fought them, of course they didn't. Lewis broke them, they were done.

Lennox went on to fight murderous super puncher David Tua and made Tua look like some kind of fat sparring partner. I had it 12-0 Lewis in the widest most dominant performance of all times when it comes to UD'S.

If you think Wladimir dominated Haye, go watch Lewis-Tua, that is what true domination is all about. Oh btw, that version of Tua would have knocked out Haye in 4-5 Rounds tops.

Lewis avenged his defeat against Rahman by throwing quite possibly one of the most ruthless 1-2 in boxing history and went on to dominate Mike Tyson. Lewis vs Mike is like Calzaghe vs Jones.
Both Mike and Jones was shot, but Calzaghe and Lewis were past their best days as well.

Lennox retired by beating Vitali, despite being a very fat 256+ and heavily under trained. HBO repeatly mentioned how fat and how under conditioned Lewis looked.
Lewis against a Prime Vitali was a war and Lennox was coming on strong in the end. Rounds 4-6, Lennox was pouring it on and Vitali would not have survived past the 8th if the fight was not stopped.
Lennox Lewis is amazing.


----------



## kf3

i am totally in favor of jofre and harada being joint #1 , good stuff

not exactly a conventional list but you clearly put effort in.


----------



## PityTheFool

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#2 Lennox Lewis*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lennox Lewis have the honor of being the only modern day HW to defeat every man he ever faced. He avenged both his fluke defeats in spectacular fashion and have a great resume.
> 
> In the case of Lennox, it is not 1 or 2 wins that stands out but his amazing collective body of work that really puts him ahead of the pack. Lewis in his 15th fight fought a undefeated power puncher name Gary Mason. Gary Mason was 35-0 with 34 Knock outs. Let's think for a moment about just how special that is.
> 
> Gary Mason's 'padded record' stage consists Tyrell Biggs, James Tillis, Lorenzo Boyd, Alfonzo Ratliff, Ricky Parkey, Donnie Long, James Pritchard, Mark Wills, Everett Martin, Louis Pergaud, Hughroy Currie, Terry Armstrong, David Jaco and Jess Harding. Compare those fights to the fighters Detontay Wilder knocked out and you will see the sheer skill difference between the two.Mason had a 99% knock out ratio heading into the Lewis fight. Lewis was a virtual youngster and he ended up knocking out the knock out artist.
> 
> Lewis went on to ko Biggs and Weaver and put up a string of very good performances before entering a 4 men elimination tournament which consisted of
> 
> Bowe-Holyfield
> Lewis-Ruddock.
> Razer Ruddock was one of the most feared punchers in the division and a solid favorite to beat the relatively unknown Brit. Lennox ended up destroying Ruddock in 2 rounds. What followed was one of the most despicable acts known to mankind as Riddick Big ***** Bowe decided to duck Lennox and throw his belt into the trashcan. Cheating Lewis of a possible career defining trilogy. Bowe was dominated by Lewis in the Olympics and never ever wanted to get within 200 miles of Lewis's fists ever again.
> Lewis lost motivation, but still managed to come from behind and knock out Frank Bruno (who is a very solid HW and would have been champion today). He also beat Tony Tucker, who is one of the most under rated heavies of the last 3 eras, Tucker went the distance with a prime Tyson and had Tyson fighting confused for stretches.
> 
> He lost to Oliver Mccall via a debatable stoppage, regrouped and came back to dominate another underrated fighter in Tommy Morrison. Prime Ray Mercer followed. I hear some people joke about how Mercer was a split decision nail biting fight. These people don't know **** about boxing and should re watch the fight. The match was close and a prime Mercer fought his heart out, but lost steam starting from Round 5 and was eating Lewis right hands, combinations, along with long jabs to the face again and again.
> Lewis-Mercer was a very competitive 7-3 affair.
> 
> Lewis went on to beat Mccall in the rematch, Lennox caused some sort of mental melt down from Mccall(some people say drugs, I say Lewis's right hand)
> Lennox went on to KO the very feared Golota in one round. Golota beat the living crap out of Riddick Bowe for 2 straight fights. His low blows was disgraceful, but it don't change the fact Golota won 90% of the rounds and beat Bowe half to death.
> Lewis was a under dog and knocked out Golota in 1 round.
> 
> Zeijko Mavorvic was a undefeated iron chin super champion from Europe and Lennox beat him 9-3. At best you can say it was a 8-4 fight. Zeljko had a lot of talent, heart and chin. What happened after the Lewis fight was a shame, a damn shame. To this day, Lewis was the only guy to have beaten Mavrovic, so many others tried, they all failed. With the exception of Lennox.
> Prime Shannon Briggs was knocked down numerous times and destroyed by Lennox in the fifth. Some of the most surreal shoulder roll defense was shown by Lewis in that fight. A decade later, a shot Briggs went 12 with a Prime Vitali.
> 
> Lewis dominated and embarrassed a still elite Holyfield and won 10-2 on every score card imaginable to the human race. He was cheated by sand Devil Demon Don King. He went on to beat Holyfield again, albeit not as dominant as the first time.
> 
> Michael Grant was hyped beyond belief. This ****er was the original Lucian Bute of the HW'S and he was Froched by Lennox. Grant was also 6'8 and a giant super HW with great athletic abilities. People say Golota and Grant didn't do anything after Lennox fought them, of course they didn't. Lewis broke them, they were done.
> 
> Lennox went on to fight murderous super puncher David Tua and made Tua look like some kind of fat sparring partner. I had it 12-0 Lewis in the widest most dominant performance of all times when it comes to UD'S.
> 
> If you think Wladimir dominated Haye, go watch Lewis-Tua, that is what true domination is all about. Oh btw, that version of Tua would have knocked out Haye in 4-5 Rounds tops.
> 
> Lewis avenged his defeat against Rahman by throwing quite possibly one of the most ruthless 1-2 in boxing history and went on to dominate Mike Tyson. Lewis vs Mike is like Calzaghe vs Jones.
> Both Mike and Jones was shot, but Calzaghe and Lewis were past their best days as well.
> 
> Lennox retired by beating Vitali, despite being a very fat 256+ and heavily under trained. HBO repeatly mentioned how fat and how under conditioned Lewis looked.
> Lewis against a Prime Vitali was a war and Lennox was coming on strong in the end. Rounds 4-6, Lennox was pouring it on and Vitali would not have survived past the 8th if the fight was not stopped.
> Lennox Lewis is amazing.


Have to admit Felix,in a list full of surprises, this is the biggest.
What number did you have Cotto at?


----------



## pipe wrenched

Woo Hoo...Lennox the Mother Fuckin Lion :horse


----------



## On the Money

Several poor showings in Lewis's career, not just tko2 and ko5, several lackluster displays. And he'd have been nothing without Manny Steward although you can say the same about Wladimir.


----------



## Leftsmash

FelixTrinidad said:


> *#2 Lennox Lewis*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lennox Lewis have the honor of being the only modern day HW to defeat every man he ever faced. He avenged both his fluke defeats in spectacular fashion and have a great resume.
> 
> In the case of Lennox, it is not 1 or 2 wins that stands out but his amazing collective body of work that really puts him ahead of the pack. Lewis in his 15th fight fought a undefeated power puncher name Gary Mason. Gary Mason was 35-0 with 34 Knock outs. Let's think for a moment about just how special that is.
> 
> Gary Mason's 'padded record' stage consists Tyrell Biggs, James Tillis, Lorenzo Boyd, Alfonzo Ratliff, Ricky Parkey, Donnie Long, James Pritchard, Mark Wills, Everett Martin, Louis Pergaud, Hughroy Currie, Terry Armstrong, David Jaco and Jess Harding. Compare those fights to the fighters Detontay Wilder knocked out and you will see the sheer skill difference between the two.Mason had a 99% knock out ratio heading into the Lewis fight. Lewis was a virtual youngster and he ended up knocking out the knock out artist.
> 
> Lewis went on to ko Biggs and Weaver and put up a string of very good performances before entering a 4 men elimination tournament which consisted of
> 
> Bowe-Holyfield
> Lewis-Ruddock.
> Razer Ruddock was one of the most feared punchers in the division and a solid favorite to beat the relatively unknown Brit. Lennox ended up destroying Ruddock in 2 rounds. What followed was one of the most despicable acts known to mankind as Riddick Big ***** Bowe decided to duck Lennox and throw his belt into the trashcan. Cheating Lewis of a possible career defining trilogy. Bowe was dominated by Lewis in the Olympics and never ever wanted to get within 200 miles of Lewis's fists ever again.
> Lewis lost motivation, but still managed to come from behind and knock out Frank Bruno (who is a very solid HW and would have been champion today). He also beat Tony Tucker, who is one of the most under rated heavies of the last 3 eras, Tucker went the distance with a prime Tyson and had Tyson fighting confused for stretches.
> 
> He lost to Oliver Mccall via a debatable stoppage, regrouped and came back to dominate another underrated fighter in Tommy Morrison. Prime Ray Mercer followed. I hear some people joke about how Mercer was a split decision nail biting fight. These people don't know **** about boxing and should re watch the fight. The match was close and a prime Mercer fought his heart out, but lost steam starting from Round 5 and was eating Lewis right hands, combinations, along with long jabs to the face again and again.
> Lewis-Mercer was a very competitive 7-3 affair.
> 
> Lewis went on to beat Mccall in the rematch, Lennox caused some sort of mental melt down from Mccall(some people say drugs, I say Lewis's right hand)
> Lennox went on to KO the very feared Golota in one round. Golota beat the living crap out of Riddick Bowe for 2 straight fights. His low blows was disgraceful, but it don't change the fact Golota won 90% of the rounds and beat Bowe half to death.
> Lewis was a under dog and knocked out Golota in 1 round.
> 
> Zeijko Mavorvic was a undefeated iron chin super champion from Europe and Lennox beat him 9-3. At best you can say it was a 8-4 fight. Zeljko had a lot of talent, heart and chin. What happened after the Lewis fight was a shame, a damn shame. To this day, Lewis was the only guy to have beaten Mavrovic, so many others tried, they all failed. With the exception of Lennox.
> Prime Shannon Briggs was knocked down numerous times and destroyed by Lennox in the fifth. Some of the most surreal shoulder roll defense was shown by Lewis in that fight. A decade later, a shot Briggs went 12 with a Prime Vitali.
> 
> Lewis dominated and embarrassed a still elite Holyfield and won 10-2 on every score card imaginable to the human race. He was cheated by sand Devil Demon Don King. He went on to beat Holyfield again, albeit not as dominant as the first time.
> 
> Michael Grant was hyped beyond belief. This ****er was the original Lucian Bute of the HW'S and he was Froched by Lennox. Grant was also 6'8 and a giant super HW with great athletic abilities. People say Golota and Grant didn't do anything after Lennox fought them, of course they didn't. Lewis broke them, they were done.
> 
> Lennox went on to fight murderous super puncher David Tua and made Tua look like some kind of fat sparring partner. I had it 12-0 Lewis in the widest most dominant performance of all times when it comes to UD'S.
> 
> If you think Wladimir dominated Haye, go watch Lewis-Tua, that is what true domination is all about. Oh btw, that version of Tua would have knocked out Haye in 4-5 Rounds tops.
> 
> Lewis avenged his defeat against Rahman by throwing quite possibly one of the most ruthless 1-2 in boxing history and went on to dominate Mike Tyson. Lewis vs Mike is like Calzaghe vs Jones.
> Both Mike and Jones was shot, but Calzaghe and Lewis were past their best days as well.
> 
> Lennox retired by beating Vitali, despite being a very fat 256+ and heavily under trained. HBO repeatly mentioned how fat and how under conditioned Lewis looked.
> Lewis against a Prime Vitali was a war and Lennox was coming on strong in the end. Rounds 4-6, Lennox was pouring it on and Vitali would not have survived past the 8th if the fight was not stopped.
> Lennox Lewis is amazing.


My man!


----------



## FloydPatterson




----------



## Primadonna Kool




----------



## the cobra

The plot thickens after a surprise twist.


----------



## LittleRed

Nothing has ever surprised me more.


----------



## Leftsmash

tommygun711 said:


> Jerry Quarry gets killed by Tua? Not really he could fuck around and get outboxed. Quarry was a real good boxer.


Quarry leaves on a stretcher, doesn't have the speed of Byrd, the length and long range weaponry of Lewis as well as power to keep him off. It would be his worst KO loss ever.


----------



## Mugshot

@FelixTrinidad

Jimmy Barry. World Paperweight Champion. 72 fights, zero losses. If you multiplied that by like 2. That would be 144 fights and ZERO losses. Multiply by 3, maybe? 216 wins... ZERO losses.

4? 288 fights. Zero losses.

5? 360 fights. Still no losses.

It wasn't so much that he just never tasted defeat. It's that he was INCAPABLE of doing so. Because he was The Greatest.


----------



## MadcapMaxie

Ali Raymi is number 1.


----------



## dyna

Biggest twist in the history of CHB.

I really have no idea who will be number 1, but I still hope it will be John Ruiz


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c

MadcapMaxie said:


> Ali Raymi is number 1.


:deal


----------



## MadcapMaxie

Chacal said:


> :deal


There can be only one. Raymi has walked the path of the warrior and now resides a top the mountain...of awesome-nessssssSSSSS


----------



## tommygun711

Leftsmash said:


> Quarry leaves on a stretcher, doesn't have the speed of Byrd, the length and long range weaponry of Lewis as well as power to keep him off. It would be his worst KO loss ever.


lol you won't find me agreeing with that. Quarry IMO would be able to outmove and outbox Tua; he would be tough enough and had the heart to trade with him although that wouldn't be his tactic here. He would move, counterpunch, hold when necessary, etc. He was significantly faster than Tua.

And you don't need to be Byrd or Lewis to beat Tua. Rahman almost got the job done but he got hit after the bell and never recovered. He outboxed Tua in the rematch and should've got the W. Maskaev was doing well till Tua's power bailed him out.

I see a competitive decision win for Quarry.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> lol you won't find me agreeing with that. Quarry IMO would be able to outmove and outbox Tua; he would be tough enough and had the heart to trade with him although that wouldn't be his tactic here. He would move, counterpunch, hold when necessary, etc. He was significantly faster than Tua.
> 
> And you don't need to be Byrd or Lewis to beat Tua. Rahman almost got the job done but he got hit after the bell and never recovered. He outboxed Tua in the rematch and should've got the W. Maskaev was doing well till Tua's power bailed him out.
> 
> I see a competitive decision win for Quarry.


:lol: Holy jesus christ. Tua would KO Quarry so bad that Quarry might actually DIE in the ring. Stop it Tommy. Lol.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> :lol: Holy jesus christ. Tua would KO Quarry so bad that Quarry might actually DIE in the ring. Stop it Tommy. Lol.


whatever. you can't refute any of my points. Quarry was a good boxer-mover when he wanted to be. He could throw some fluid combos. Rahman and Maskaev outboxed Tua for portions of the fight. I think Quarry could do the same. Quarry was really really tough. You had to be more than a bomber to beat Quarry. Nobodys dieing.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> *whatever. you can't refute any of my points.* Quarry was a good boxer-mover when he wanted to be. He could throw some fluid combos. Rahman and Maskaev outboxed Tua for portions of the fight. I think Quarry could do the same. Quarry was really really tough. You had to be more than a bomber to beat Quarry. Nobodys dieing.


 I REFUTED your points! Yo lost the debate and than stopped talking.

Remember? You said that Ali era were more skilled, I said that 90's era had bigger men? You agreed.

I than said that the 90's modern heavys have proven they can KNOCKOUT big men, the Ali era guys haven't proved that. So we can talk all we want about Shaver's 'legendary power', but the truth is he have never knocked out a guy as big as Shannon Briggs. His KO Ratio against 215+ pound guys was around 47%.

You than stopped replying.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> I REFUTED your points! You lost the debate and than stopped talking.
> 
> Remember? You said that Ali era were more skilled, I said that 90's era had bigger men? You agreed.
> 
> I than said that the 90's modern heavys have proven they can KNOCKOUT big men, the Ali era guys haven't proved that. So we can talk all we want about Shaver's 'legendary power', but the truth is he have never knocked out a guy as big as Shannon Briggs. His KO Ratio against 215+ pound guys was around 47%.
> 
> You than stopped replying.


I already agreed that (OBVIOUSLY) the bigger guys were in the 90s what else would I add to that? :huh


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> I already agreed that (OBVIOUSLY) the bigger guys were in the 90s what else would I add to that? :huh


No... PAY ATTENTION!!!
That leads up to the MAIN POINT. Which is that I said Ali would not do well during the 90's due to the bigger punchers and the damage he will take.
That's the main point. You said that Ali have proven he can beat bigger punchers. You than listed a bunch of punchers from his era. I than said that the 60's 70's guys don't punch ANYWHERE near as hard as the 90's guys. I than showed stats which stated the 60's and 70's punchers did a lot worst against fighters 215+ pounds and up. Which means their punching power isn't as big as the 90's guys.
Ali took shots from Shavers, that don't mean he can take shots from Morrison. That's the whole point. My point is that Ali would have gotten knocked out numerous times during the 90's.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> I already agreed that (OBVIOUSLY) the bigger guys were in the 90s what else would I add to that? :huh


Look man. Just admit the 90's guys were not only bigger but also punched much harder.

George Foreman(the greatest puncher of the 70's) can't even KO weak chin Morrison. He actaully got beat by Morrison and never once hurted Morrison.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> Which is that I said Ali would not do well during the 90's due to the bigger punchers and the damage he will take


I didn't feel the need to repeat myself but the guys Ali faced are comparable to the 90s punchers.



> You said that Ali have proven he can beat bigger punchers. You than listed a bunch of punchers from his era. I than said that the 60's 70's guys don't punch ANYWHERE near as hard as the 90's guys. I than showed stats which stated the 60's and 70's punchers did a lot worst against fighters 215+ pounds and up. Which means their punching power isn't as big as the 90's guys.


Size aint everything though, just because they knocked out bigger guys doesn't make them the bigger punchers. The 70s guys didn't have as many opportunities to fight these big guys like the 90s HWs did, so it's up for the imagination.

Ali took shots from Shavers, that don't mean he can take shots from Morrison. That's the whole point. My point is that Ali would have gotten knocked out numerous times during the 90's.[/QUOTE]

its kind of redundant at this point. I think Shavers and Morrison relatively hit around the same. as I said there's no way to know who hit harder. I already said all of this though so that's why i didnt reply to your other post which was just a rehash of everything you said.

On Morrison-Foreman, okay yeah, but that was old Foreman. i have no doubt young foreman would spark Morrison out.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> I didn't feel the need to repeat myself but the guys Ali faced are comparable to the 90s punchers.
> 
> Size aint everything though, just because they knocked out bigger guys doesn't make them the bigger punchers. They didn't have as many opportunities to fight these big guys like the 90s HWs did, so it's up for the imagination.
> 
> Ali took shots from Shavers, that don't mean he can take shots from Morrison. That's the whole point. My point is that Ali would have gotten knocked out numerous times during the 90's.


 I rehash my stuff because you are acting as if the stats I shown does not exist. The way you post, it's like you ignored the actual FACTS.

Opinion:
Shavers hit just as hard as Tua.
Fact:
Shavers have a 47% KO ratio against 215+ men and have never knocked out someone as big as John Ruiz.

Fact:Tua's KO ratio is much much higher against 215+ men.

Opinion:
Foreman's power hits just as hard as Lewis(maybe even harder)

Fact:
Foreman was unable to KO Tommy Morrison or Shannon Briggs. Two fighters who went down 8+ times against Lewis and both ended up knocked out by him.

It's your OPINION that the Ali era hit 'just as hard'.
But FACTS show you that that the Ali era doesn't hit as hard.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> Opinion:
> Shavers hit just as hard as Tua.
> Fact:
> Shavers have a 47% KO ratio against 215+ men and have never knocked out someone as big as John Ruiz.
> 
> Fact:Tua's KO ratio is much much higher against 215+ men.


But knocking out bigger men isn't always a barometer for who hit harder. that's where your argument falls apart. As an overall fighter Tua was better than Shavers as he was more durable and would probably KO Shavers.



> Fact:
> Foreman was unable to KO Tommy Morrison or Shannon Briggs. Two fighters who went down 8+ times against Lewis and both ended up knocked out by him.


Foreman was old as shit against them though, his delivery system was nowhere near his 70s delivery system. Alot of it had to do with Morrison literally RUNNING away from George. a younger George would have cut the ring off on Morrison and knocked him out. throw those guys in with Young Foreman and its a different story. Lewis was in his prime. It also has to do with styles. Another fun fact is that Lewis got rocked by Briggs and Foreman never really did.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> *But knocking out bigger men isn't always a barometer for who hit harder. *that's where your argument falls apart. As an overall fighter Tua was better than Shavers as he was more durable and would probably KO Shavers.
> 
> Foreman was old as shit against them though, his delivery system was nowhere near his 70s delivery system. Alot of it had to do with Morrison literally RUNNING away from George. a younger George would have cut the ring off on Morrison and knocked him out. throw those guys in with Young Foreman and its a different story. Lewis was in his prime. It also has to do with styles. Another fun fact is that Lewis got rocked by Briggs and Foreman never really did.


 What the Hell? Yes it is.

If you are able to knock out a 200 pound man with a straight right hand and I'm only able to knock out a 160 pound man with a straight right hand and we keep doing this on a regular basis(taking away the various chin equations). That proves you hit harder than I do.
This is simple math.

Yes the occassional 'iron chin, glass jaw' example is always in existence, but if we do it on a regular basis and there are enough examples to overshadow the occasional anamoly, than that proves you hit harder.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

also @tommygun711

Before you even think about how 'there just wasn't enough 215+ pound guys for the Ali era to 'test themselvs against'. Shavers had more than enough fights against 215+ pound men to test his power.

He fought 215+ pound men 23 times. His KO ratio? 47%.
Shavers is the 2nd hardest hitter of the 60's and 70's. Yet against men 215+ pounds, he is only able to knock out around half of them.
That speaks volumes.

His power was overrated. Don't get me wrong, his power was very good against the small guys of his era, but the times he fought the 'big guys' of his era(although even those would be considered average among the modern era) he was only able to be average in power.


----------



## tommygun711

FelixTrinidad said:


> What the Hell? Yes it is.
> 
> If you are able to knock out a 200 pound man with a straight right hand and I'm only able to knock out a 160 pound man with a straight right hand and we keep doing this on a regular basis(taking away the various chin equations). That proves you hit harder than I do.


no its really not. There isn't as much of a difference between the super HWs of the 90s and the guys or the 70s, other than them being stronger/bigger which doesn't always result in having a better chin. A huge muscular guy from the 90s could have a glass jaw and a skinny HW from the 70s could have an iron jaw. the chin equation is very much into play.


----------



## Leftsmash

tommygun711 said:


> lol you won't find me agreeing with that. Quarry IMO would be able to outmove and outbox Tua; he would be tough enough and had the heart to trade with him although that wouldn't be his tactic here. He would move, counterpunch, hold when necessary, etc. He was significantly faster than Tua.
> 
> And you don't need to be Byrd or Lewis to beat Tua. Rahman almost got the job done but he got hit after the bell and never recovered. He outboxed Tua in the rematch and should've got the W. Maskaev was doing well till Tua's power bailed him out.
> 
> Quarry get's laid out.
> 
> I see a competitive decision win for Quarry.


Quarry was significantly faster than Tua? Yeah right! He had decent handspeed when up against slower punchers on the inside like Lyle but given Jerry's weakness against more explosive ones, holding is not going to help against Tua.

Rahman had good power as well as more than a half decent jab when he needed to use it, Quarry doesn't have that so that's irrelevant. Maskaev another puncher with decent height and length on Tua, could dish it out but can't take it.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Leftsmash said:


> Quarry was significantly faster than Tua? Yeah right! He had decent handspeed when up against slower punchers on the inside like Lyle but given Jerry's weakness against more explosive ones, holding is not going to help against Tua.
> 
> Rahman had good power as well as more than a half decent jab when he needed to use it, Quarry doesn't have that so that's irrelevant. Maskaev another puncher with decent height and length on Tua, could dish it out but can't take it.


 Tua would actually have done very well during the Ali era. It would have been something amazing to see him go toe to toe against Foreman and Frazier.


----------



## tommygun711

Leftsmash said:


> Quarry was significantly faster than Tua? Yeah right! He had decent handspeed when up against slower punchers on the inside like Lyle but given Jerry's weakness against more explosive ones, holding is not going to help against Tua.
> 
> Rahman had good power as well as more than a half decent jab when he needed to use it, Quarry doesn't have that so that's irrelevant. Maskaev another puncher with decent height and length on Tua, could dish it out but can't take it.


I guess i just disagree then. Quarry would see himself at a prettt signicant hand speed advantage. Lyle was more skilled than Tua btw and quarry fuckin handled him.

Jerrys weakness against explosive punchers? What...?

You really think rahman is better than quarry? Not only did quarry move better than The Rock but he threw much better combinations and varied his offense compared to Hasim. Quarry had a decent jab. Quarry could definitely replicate Rahmans performances, for sure, imo hed do better.


----------



## It's Ovah

tommygun711 said:


> no its really not. There isn't as much of a difference between the super HWs of the 90s and the guys or the 70s, other than them being stronger/bigger which doesn't always result in having a better chin. A huge muscular guy from the 90s could have a glass jaw and a skinny HW from the 70s could have an iron jaw. the chin equation is very much into play.


I don't think you're quite grasping the averaging out process Felix is talking about. A middleweight, _on average_, can take a better punch than a welterweight. A cruiserweight, _on average_, can take a better punch than a middleweight. A large heavyweight, _on average_, can take a better punch than a borderline one (provided the large HW is naturally that size and not blown up with muscle or fat). You acknowledge, as we all do, that there are always exceptions, but by that same token, you also seem to acknowledge that the rule holds true more often than not.

Fight certain sized opponents enough of the time and you start to eliminate the exceptions and get a better overall picture of the way things stand. It's one of the few domains where stats begin to have some relevance.


----------



## It's Ovah

tommygun711 said:


> I guess i just disagree then. *Quarry would see himself at a prettt signicant hand speed advantage. *


One of the biggest misconceptions people have with Tua was that he had slow hands. He did not. In fact his explosive handspeed was one of the biggest factors in how hard he hit. Watch the Darroll Wilson fight (it's only one round so there's no excuse not to). Watch Tua reel off three consecutive left hooks, _hard_, in under a second, then come back and say with a straight face that he had slow hands. It can't be done.

Tua had slow other things that would get him in trouble against better boxing opponents, but slow hands was not one of them.


----------



## tommygun711

Quarry is still faster doe


----------



## LittleRed

Tuas knockout percentage against guys 215 pounds or less was 73%. Against guys over 215 it was 73%.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

It's Ovah said:


> I don't think you're quite grasping the averaging out process Felix is talking about. A middleweight, _on average_, can take a better punch than a welterweight. A cruiserweight, _on average_, can take a better punch than a middleweight. A large heavyweight, _on average_, can take a better punch than a borderline one (provided the large HW is naturally that size and not blown up with muscle or fat). You acknowledge, as we all do, that there are always exceptions, but by that same token, you also seem to acknowledge that the rule holds true more often than not.
> 
> Fight certain sized opponents enough of the time and you start to eliminate the exceptions and get a better overall picture of the way things stand. It's one of the few domains where stats begin to have some relevance.


 Exactly. That's why it befuddles me when people talk like Shavers was a harder hitter than Lewis/Tua/ etc etc.

Shavers had a 47% KO ratio against the 23 fighters he faced that were over 215 pounds. I think this speaks volumes because the occasional granite chin here and there is likely, but overall when you fight a big enough number of a certain type of fighter, it evens out.

The bottom line is, Shavers wasn't even able to crack 50% against 'normal sized' heavyweights. This leads me to believe he would have been pretty fucked during the 90's.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> no its really not. There isn't as much of a difference between the super HWs of the 90s and the guys or the 70s, other than them being stronger/bigger which doesn't always result in having a better chin. A huge muscular guy from the 90s could have a glass jaw and a skinny HW from the 70s could have an iron jaw. the chin equation is very much into play.


It's Ovah already explained this to you. I will shorten it even more.
When you fight ENOUGH fighters to have a sizable sample, the occasional 'glass jaw' 'iron chin' thing goes out the window.

If you put 100 220+ Pound Men together and 100 190 pound men together. On AVERAGE the 220+ pound men would have the better chins and punch harder. ON AVERAGE.


----------



## turbotime

It's Ovah said:


> One of the biggest misconceptions people have with Tua was that he had slow hands. He did not. In fact his explosive handspeed was one of the biggest factors in how hard he hit. Watch the Darroll Wilson fight (it's only one round so there's no excuse not to). Watch Tua reel off three consecutive left hooks, _hard_, in under a second, then come back and say with a straight face that he had slow hands. It can't be done.
> 
> Tua had slow other things that would get him in trouble against better boxing opponents, but slow hands was not one of them.


Slow Tua :lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad

tommygun711 said:


> I guess i just disagree then. Quarry would see himself at a prettt signicant hand speed advantage. Lyle was more skilled than Tua btw and quarry fuckin handled him.
> 
> Jerrys weakness against explosive punchers? What...?
> 
> You really think rahman is better than quarry? Not only did quarry move better than The Rock but he threw much better combinations and varied his offense compared to Hasim. Quarry had a decent jab. Quarry could definitely replicate Rahmans performances, for sure, imo hed do better.


Quarry isn't better than Rahman. What the hell? Look stop it. Ok just stop it.

I know a lot of classics posters like to pay respect to the old timers(and I do too). I respect that. But stop acting like 190 pound men from the 60's could beat 230+ pound men of the modern era. Ali was at least 215+ pounds so he was at the very least a real Heavyweight, Quarry was fighting at 188-195. Rahman had a better jab, much more power, equal ring IQ, and had decent footwork for such a big heavy dude. Rahman would also outweight Quarry by god damn 40+ pounds. How will Quarry even win the clinches? Quarry was a warrior(RIP) and a true tribute to the sport, but Rahman would brutally knock him out around the 4th.


----------



## turbotime

Great post on the Lion too, Felix. King Lennox :happy


----------



## FelixTrinidad

For those of you interested in actual fighting weights.

http://www.fightsrec.com/

is better than Boxrec. Just type in the name of the fighter in the 'search area and read through his stats history. It's pretty cool stuff.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

On the Money said:


> Several poor showings in Lewis's career, not just tko2 and ko5, several lackluster displays. And he'd have been nothing without Manny Steward although you can say the same about Wladimir.


 Lennox Lewis had an overall higher ring intelligence than Wladimir and would have adjusted even without Manny. Manny(RIP) was a very good Robin to Lennox's Batman.

Wladimir on the other hand would not have been able to adjust his style without Manny and owe Manny his life.


----------



## Stone Rose

I've enjoyed this list Felix although i'm still not sure if you're having a laugh or a bit strange, probably a bit of both.

Can't fault Lennox though, fuckin loved the guy and h2h one of the biggest, hardest motherfuckers to ever grace the ring.


----------



## Stone Rose

And On The Money, which great fighter didnt have a few off nights ? Lewis had fewer than the vast majority. Name those off nights ?

And he already was somebody before Manny. What's wrong with a trainer bringing out the best in a fighter ?


----------



## It's Ovah

tommygun711 said:


> Quarry is still faster doe


His overall mobility was greater, I'll give you that. Tua was a plodder most of the time, mentally as well as physically, but when he exploded he was lightning fast. It was that combination of stocky flat-footedness and sudden speed that caught a lot of opponents out, most notably John Ruiz and (nearly) Lennox himself. The man had speed, enough to catch anybody clean, but only in bursts.


----------



## Mugshot

Jimmy Barry. The Little Tiger. The Greatest. You know it to be true. Never lost. Ever.


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Mugshot said:


> Jimmy Barry. The Little Tiger. The Greatest. You know it to be true. Never lost. Ever.


Impressive record. BUT no footage, so it's really hard to judge his true skills. I want my list to be as accurate as possible, so can't put anyone on this list who have no footage.


----------



## Mugshot

FelixTrinidad said:


> Impressive record. BUT no footage, so it's really hard to judge his true skills. I want my list to be as accurate as possible, so can't put anyone on this list who have no footage.


Greb, Figg, George. (George's capability has long been subject to controversy. The resume is there. We know that. But how truly in heat were some of the bitches he went down on in the tough ghettos in which he grew up in? We may never know.)


----------



## dyna

:happy


----------



## turbotime

moooooar!


----------



## FelixTrinidad

Stone Rose said:


> I've enjoyed this list Felix although i'm still not sure if you're having a laugh or a bit strange, probably a bit of both.
> 
> Can't fault Lennox though, fuckin loved the guy and h2h one of the biggest, hardest motherfuckers to ever grace the ring.


Ya I really wish Lewis was in this era. I think the following he would have gathered from England in this particular era would have been something.

Imagine he and Wladimir having a trilogy (London,Vegas,Kiev)........ Of course it would most likely have ended at London after a third round KO WIN for Lewis.


----------



## Tko6

Soooooooo. . .


----------



## Hands of Iron

Tko6 said:


> Soooooooo. . .


Forum sorely misses this sort of content.


----------



## dyna

I'm still waiting somewhere deep in my basement


----------



## Kurushi

My personal favourite part of this thread:



LittleRed said:


> Was Khaosai Galaxy ranked yet?





FelixTrinidad said:


> Who the Hell is Khaosai Galaxy? Lol.. sounds like a Comic book super hero. Is he any good?





Flea Man said:


> How can you compile a list of 'greatest fighters' if you don't know fuck all about boxing history? You soppy cunt.





FelixTrinidad said:


> *#7 Khaosai Galaxy *
> 
> The hardest P4P puncher of all times, Khaosai Galaxy bursts onto the list at #7 . Nicknamed the 'Thai Tyson' and with good reason, Khaosai dominated the lower weights for decades. Creating fear and havoc among all comers, he displayed a collective gathering of synergetic skills,brutality,art,and dash. His ability to chase down opponents only further enhanced by his sheer determination and single mind approach to devastation. The World's smartest pitbull, Khaosai only need hear the word 'go' and he will not let up until the victim is left torn and lifeless inside the square ring.
> 
> Khaosai's glorious reign began when he walked down and stopped undefeated Eusebio Espinal for the WBA Title. What followed was the greatest choke hold in his Division's history. Khaosai defended his WBA Title an amazing 19 times over the next 7 years.Lee,Orono,Monserrat,Contreras,Pical,Sup Chun,Chung, Payakaroon and Llano were just some of the greats he went through during that time. Kenji Matsumura perhaps gave Khao his toughest challenge during his title reign. The tough and cagey Japanese warrior employed a variety of ambush tactics that caught Khaosai unaware at times, despite his initial confusion against a new style, Khaosai proved his greatness and soon adjusted. Khaosai ended his fighting days against fellow knockout artist Armando Castro and finished his career at 47-1.
> 
> It's not often that we see a SouthPaw of such unique skills and punching power in boxing. Although this particular niche of boxers have become more and more common place over the years, actual hard punching South Paws are still a rarity. The only left hand fighters that came close to emulating Khaosai's brilliance and savagery are Adonis Stevenson and Manny Pacquaio. The LHW Canadian carries many of Khaosai's raw power and laser like accuracy, but even the great Adonis falls far short of the genuine article. Pacquaio came closer. Pacquiao's left is almost as sharp although lacking Khaosai's use of angles and speed, Pacquaio's overall offensive abilities although not quite touching Khaosai's, have managed to enter the same ballpark. Yet even watching Pacquaio, you can't feel but that you are getting a watered down version of Galaxy.
> 
> Khaosai's incredible granite chin combined with his fearless approach and lightning like left makes him a H2H nightmare for any fighter in the history of the lower weights. He's rightfully earned his place among the best in history, critics be damned.





Flea Man said:


> You didn't even know about him until the other day!!!


----------



## Kurushi

I miss FT. Genuinely entertaining. Remember the RBR he did of Mayweather vs Canelo?



FelixTrinidad said:


> I'm still on Round 1. Gonna watch Round 2 tomorrow. Floyd is an ATG. He's like lobster, you don't just gulp an entire lobster in one bite. You savor it slowly.


----------

