# Andre Ward - 'If I beat Kovalev, then what?"



## Rockinghorseshit (Oct 4, 2013)

http://www.boxingscene.com/andre-ward-if-i-beat-sergey-kovalev-then-what--78770

Ward is obviously frightened at the prospect of moving up. Where is team slick now to defend this cowardly move?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I think Ward is waiting on whooping GGG's ass before he moves up


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

He has a point. WTF is Kovalev? I like Sergei but I'm me, a hardcore, a WBO strap won't make Ward a star :conf


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## AzarZ (Dec 17, 2013)

Hes right moving up dont make sense, fighting just one name at lhw instead of fighting numerous names at SMW. Plenty of good fights at SMW GG, Degale, Chavez, GGG.


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Then you go after Stevenson, and Hopkins, and take over 175lbs, Andre...


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

AzarZ said:


> Hes right moving up dont make sense, fighting just one name at lhw instead of fighting numerous names at SMW. Plenty of good fights at SMW GG, Degale, Chavez, GGG.


Even a froch rematch.


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## Tko6 (May 19, 2013)

Not fighting someone in case you beat them? Well that's a first. . .


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## AzarZ (Dec 17, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Even a froch rematch.


I think Froch has accepted that Ward is the better man and rather not go back n get another loss especially when there are bigger money fights out there for him. Froch is on the verge of retiring and he said he wants one big fight in America n Chavez is the perfect opponent for that. He brings ppv money, name, a good chance of winning and ending his career on a high.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Tko6 said:


> Not fighting someone in case you beat them? Well that's a first. . .


no he'd move up in weight, beat Kovalev and still have no fights left for him. At least at 168, he has DeGale who just Ko'd Gonzales, Groves, Chavez, Froch II and GGG.


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## TSOL (Dec 15, 2013)

so hes just gonna wait it out for GGG to move up? But there are a lot of fights for GGG at his own weight, 160. Ward should just move up.


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## Tko6 (May 19, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> no he'd move up in weight, beat Kovalev and still have no fights left for him. At least at 168, he has DeGale who just Ko'd Gonzales, Groves, Chavez, Froch II and GGG.


He's whining about no PPV's at LHW and he wants PPV at SMW when the only guys who bring PPV would get far more money fighting other people. Dude just plain doesn't understand that you need to raise your profile and increase your fanbase, titles and wins from 3 years ago ain't enough.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

He needs to do something. Kovalev is a high risk/low reward fight now but could be a big one soon. 

GEt in the ring Andre. You are wasting your prime. I'm literally offering you my money (again).


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Tko6 said:


> Not fighting someone in case you beat them? Well that's a first. . .


"What if I lose?" -Floyd Mayweather

"What if I win?" -Andre Ward


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Andre Ward is afraid of the superstardom that beating Kovalev and Stevenson would bring. He's much more comfortable fighting in front of his 20 fans in Oakland and we should just respect that.


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## adamcanavan (Jun 5, 2012)

Well he may end up doing the same as he is now, which is nothing. Staying at 168 doesn't make sense, moving up to 175 and beating Kovalev would do a hell of a lot for him, if he beats him


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

I tell you what I hear a little He thinks he is the big guy now and he is , but not as much as he thinks. What does he get if he beats Kovalev? A title? A good win. Ward wants to do a little what Hagler did, and I don't blame him. And Marvin is one of my favorite fighters. Ward wants to fight smaller guys moving up for a little size advantage, which he would not have at light heavyweight. Hagler always wanted to fight Leonard,Duran and Hearns, yet when Spinks called him out Marvin wouldn't budge and move up.


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## BuffDopey (May 6, 2014)

I agree. Just fight nobody instead.


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## ~Cellzki~ (Jun 3, 2013)

SOG is right beating Stevenson and BHOP would mean alot more than KovaBum.


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

MAG1965 said:


> I tell you what I hear a little He thinks he is the big guy now and he is , but not as much as he thinks. What does he get if he beats Kovalev? A title? A good win. Ward wants to do a little what Hagler did, and I don't blame him. And Marvin is one of my favorite fighters. Ward wants to fight smaller guys moving up for a little size advantage, which he would not have at light heavyweight. Hagler always wanted to fight Leonard,Duran and Hearns, yet when Spinks called him out Marvin wouldn't budge and move up.


Hagler was a small middleweight and about as big as he could get.

Spinks was a big lightheavyweight as well.

For Hagler to go to lightheavy hed have to eat himself silly and gain a huge amount of muscle just to gain enough weight

For this, Ward already weighs what? about the same as Kovalev on fight night and is about the same height?

Spinks was 6'2 1/2 and Hagler 5'9 1/2 and a lot of the time Hagler came in under the middleweight limit by 2 or 3 pounds as well.


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## gyllespie (Jun 17, 2013)

What the hell does he mean by "Then what?" 

Either you retire or keep fighting to extend your legacy. That's what. 

He doesn't have to wait for Golovkin. He can move up to fight Kovalev, beat him, then move back down to 168 to eventually meet GG.


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## DeMarco (Jun 3, 2013)

Scared of getting his jaw rattled and getting knocked unconscious. It stinks of a duck. Fuck it. Ward has outgrown a duck. Ducks will now all be called Andre.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Kovalev, Stevenson, Hopkins even Pascal and other contenders all better than doing nothing


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## BuffDopey (May 6, 2014)

I suppose from wards side, if he gets chinned for peanuts by Kovalev then he's really up shit creek.

He doesn't have the personality or style to generate bank, it's not like froch where he can lose and people will still pay to see him again because he's entertaining.

Ward will try to parlay his 0 to financial success. Sadly I think that this is going to mean a rather cynical selection of opponents from here on out


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## Twelvey (Jun 6, 2012)

Why can't he fight kovalev but stay at 168 after? He doesn't need to be 7 pounds heavier to beat him. He could train exactly the way he normally does and and just not worry about dropping weight as much. He'd still be able to fight at 168 after. Dude just needs to fight.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

Theron said:


> Hagler was a small middleweight and about as big as he could get.
> 
> Spinks was a big lightheavyweight as well.
> 
> ...


yeah but Hagler acted as though it was natural for him to fight Duran,Leonard and Hearns. Hearns might have been 6-1, but he was small boned.. Tommy's legs never looked bigger than a middleweights.


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## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

Andre needs a reality check. 

If he wants to stay at SMW and make good money then he needs to concede a little, he might have to take the smaller cut of a bigger pot, and/or leave Oakland. Yes he's the best fighter at the weight, but when the other fighters in your division are bigger draws and have bigger money options out there than fighting you, you're going to have to change something to get those fights. Sitting around whinging and waiting for a MW to move up isn't going to solve anything


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## adamcanavan (Jun 5, 2012)

Heck, why not finally make the Bute fight?


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Yawn I was wondering when the next Ward thread would pop up its been 5 days


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

AzarZ said:


> Hes right moving up dont make sense, fighting just one name at lhw instead of fighting numerous names at SMW. Plenty of good fights at SMW GG, Degale, Chavez, GGG.


There are more fights at LHW. AT SMW there's only GGG but Golovkin won't move up anytime soon by the time h does Ward will have wasted his prime and Chavez won't get by Froch seriously who wants to see Chavez get beaten down by Ward? Degale has no chance vs Ward. At LHW there's Pascal, Kovalev, Stevenson and maybe even Hopkins


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

MAG1965 said:


> I tell you what I hear a little He thinks he is the big guy now and he is , but not as much as he thinks. What does he get if he beats Kovalev? A title? A good win. Ward wants to do a little what Hagler did, and I don't blame him. And Marvin is one of my favorite fighters. Ward wants to fight smaller guys moving up for a little size advantage, which he would not have at light heavyweight. Hagler always wanted to fight Leonard,Duran and Hearns, yet when Spinks called him out Marvin wouldn't budge and move up.


Hagler also refused to meet Ray at 154 but that was because Marvin knew that without his belts,he wasn't worth mega fights,and in a way Ward faces similar problems,but you(not you personally MAG)can't compare Hearns or Duran to Ward beating Chavez.
If there's no money for GGG to unify at 160,who does Andre think is gonna pay to make any fight a PPV with him involved.
I like Ward and used to feel sorry for him,but it must hurt to know a guy you beat and probably would again is the only man making $14m bucks.
I've said it before and I'll say it again;He should move over here where he'll be supported and appreciated.
Once the International Superstar retires Andre could fill the void and we could have Ward/DeGale/Dickhead as the triumvate.


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

MAG1965 said:


> yeah but Hagler acted as though it was natural for him to fight Duran,Leonard and Hearns. Hearns might have been 6-1, but he was small boned.. Tommy's legs never looked bigger than a middleweights.


I'm not even sure Hagler was really 5'9' and a half he didn't look much taller than Mugabi and only a little bit taller than Duran. But yes I et what you mean. I do think Hagler would have automatically gained weight if he had run less the stories of the training he did were insane I'm sure he would have automatically gained weight had he done less roadwork. 
But for Hagler the bigger fights were really at MW just because of Hearns, Duran, and SRL and after he arguably lost to SRL he retired if he had continued fighting yes he should have moved up but should he really have? He had a lot of tough fights by then and was already on the decline it wouldn't have been worth his health especially since he was one of the few boxers to retire at the right time there are too many boxers who don't know when to quit


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

MAG1965 said:


> yeah but Hagler acted as though it was natural for him to fight Duran,Leonard and Hearns. Hearns might have been 6-1, but he was small boned.. Tommy's legs never looked bigger than a middleweights.


Yeah, but Hearns was a gigantic welter and Leonard was also a big welter. Hagler was a small middle.

So theyre quite close in size

Tommy did have thin legs but a big bone structure he had 8 inch wrists, those usually belong to heavies.

If you look at the things they cant change like waist size, wrist size, ankle size, and fist size, they're almost identical.

I do get what your saying Hagler fought these 3 from weight divisions below him but I do think its important that with Leonard and Hearns at least they were big welters and Hagler was a small middleweight.

With a Spinks fight it would be a small middleweight fighting a very big light heavy who went on to heavyweight.


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> Then you go after Stevenson, and Hopkins, and take over 175lbs, Andre...


This. He needs to do something to make himself appealing to viewers, then maybe people will chase him, rather than the other way around.


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## nvs (May 16, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Yawn I was wondering when the next Ward thread would pop up its been 5 days


I dont believe you were wondering anything really since wondering about something requires brain functions and activity in the brains :think:


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Hagler also refused to meet Ray at 154 but that was because Marvin knew that without his belts,he wasn't worth mega fights,and in a way Ward faces similar problems,but you(not you personally MAG)can't compare Hearns or Duran to Ward beating Chavez.
> If there's no money for GGG to unify at 160,who does Andre think is gonna pay to make any fight a PPV with him involved.
> I like Ward and used to feel sorry for him,but it must hurt to know a guy you beat and probably would again is the only man making $14m bucks.
> I've said it before and I'll say it again;He should move over here where he'll be supported and appreciated.
> Once the International Superstar retires Andre could fill the void and we could have Ward/DeGale/Dickhead as the triumvate.


With Cotto fighting Martinez for PPV, and Mayweather fighting anyone, people would pay for Chavez vs. Ward or GGG vs. Ward. Thing is he is looking for the perfect fight and perfect situation. If he fights and wins even if it is against not so great guys, he will stay active and big fights will happen.


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> I'm not even sure Hagler was really 5'9' and a half he didn't look much taller than Mugabi and only a little bit taller than Duran. But yes I et what you mean. I do think Hagler would have automatically gained weight if he had run less the stories of the training he did were insane I'm sure he would have automatically gained weight had he done less roadwork.
> But for Hagler the bigger fights were really at MW just because of Hearns, Duran, and SRL and after he arguably lost to SRL he retired if he had continued fighting yes he should have moved up but should he really have? He had a lot of tough fights by then and was already on the decline it wouldn't have been worth his health especially since he was one of the few boxers to retire at the right time there are too many boxers who don't know when to quit


Even with all his running he was full of muscle, i could not see him going to lightheavy unless he got way to bulky or got old and fatter.

This is him weighing in the range of 157-160, i dont see another 15 pounds of just muscle fitting on his frame.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

Theron said:


> Yeah, but Hearns was a gigantic welter and Leonard was also a big welter. Hagler was a small middle.
> 
> So theyre quite close in size
> 
> ...


I don't think he had a big bone structure, he always looked leaner when he went up in weight. He had a big upper body, but very thin legs, which meant when he got bigger, he had trouble with his legs getting tired in later rounds with that big upperbody. But still, Hagler was perfect size for a middleweight, and he was very solid. I still thought it odd how Hagler got mad at Hearns in 1982 for getting out of their first scheduled fight, yet Tommy really did that because he didn't want to move up in weight so high so fast after welterweight. That fight was scheduled for May of 1982, so Tommy was not yet near a middleweight.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> I'm not even sure Hagler was really 5'9' and a half he didn't look much taller than Mugabi and only a little bit taller than Duran. But yes I et what you mean. I do think Hagler would have automatically gained weight if he had run less the stories of the training he did were insane I'm sure he would have automatically gained weight had he done less roadwork.
> But for Hagler the bigger fights were really at MW just because of Hearns, Duran, and SRL and after he arguably lost to SRL he retired if he had continued fighting yes he should have moved up but should he really have? He had a lot of tough fights by then and was already on the decline it wouldn't have been worth his health especially since he was one of the few boxers to retire at the right time there are too many boxers who don't know when to quit


he did retire at a perfect time, and Ray knew when to fight him. He fought actively up to the Hearns fight, then he was off a year, that inactivity meant he would have lost to a guy like Herol Graham had he not had the Leonard fight. Although he was scheduled for a Hearns rematch at the time Leonard came out to say he would fight Hagler.


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## griffin (Aug 7, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> no he'd move up in weight, beat Kovalev and still have no fights left for him. At least at 168, he has DeGale who just Ko'd Gonzales, Groves, Chavez, Froch II and GGG.


Could always do what Floyd is doing and fight between two weight classes.

Froch 2, GGG and Groves coming of a ko loss are unlikely to happen any time soon.

Froch doesn't seem to want the rematch he would rather Chavez in Vegas, and GGG team seem to only talk about 168 lbs for big money fights such as Chavez and Froch.

Right now I would rather see him fight Kovalev than sit around doing nothing.


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

Theron said:


> Even with all his running he was full of muscle, i could not see him going to lightheavy unless he got way to bulky or got old and fatter.
> 
> This is him weighing in the range of 157-160, i dont see another 15 pounds of just muscle fitting on his frame.


I also don't see him going all the way up to 175 but maybe to about 170? His chin most likely wouldn't have been the issue so if he could have added about 10lbs without losing speed he could have done well if his power would have still been there. I mean yes he was muscular but he looked more muscular than he was because he had so little fat his bodyfat % is ridiculously low that makes him look even more muscular than he was. He would have probably been fatter at LHW but he would have probably still been leaner than many boxers. Yes he would have been a little bulky and not really a "true" LHW but it might have worked not the same he was at MW but he might had been able to become a 2 division champ


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

griffin said:


> Could always do what Floyd is doing *and fight between two weight classes.*
> 
> Froch 2, GGG and Groves coming of a ko loss are unlikely to happen any time soon.
> 
> ...


:deal

I mean why not, in the ring he weighs what a lightheavyweight does or more.

Fighting at 168, weight drain, then fight at lightheavy just weightdrain 1 or 2 pounds. Easy.

But still fuck weight draining, weigh in the ring what weight class your fighting at :-(


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## griffin (Aug 7, 2013)

~Cellzki~ said:


> SOG is right beating Stevenson and BHOP would mean alot more than KovaBum.


While Stevenson and Hopkins are on Showtime why not beat Kovalev?

I mean he could always beat Kovalel first before fighting those 2.


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## JohnAnthony (Jun 6, 2013)

The Mayweather Mentality is Strong in this One!

Give me a Keith Thurman Mentality over an Andre Ward Any Day.

Bitch Ass Move, you fight Kovalev because life isnt' all about Money, Some people do a Sport in order to create a legacy and prove they're the best.


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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

then you fight another guy.


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## Post Box (Jun 7, 2012)

If he's that bothered about the lack of opponents at 175 then just move back down after you beat Kovalev. It's as simple as that.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I think Ward is waiting on whooping GGG's ass before he moves up


GGG himself would be pretty small at 168lbs and I want GGG to unify at 160lbs first..by the time he unifies all of the rising stars will be gunning for GGG, there's a whole legacy to run at this weight. I suppose GGG can always move up to fight Ward, Froch, Chavez and come back down again..



turbotime said:


> He has a point. WTF is Kovalev? I like Sergei but I'm me, a hardcore, a WBO strap won't make Ward a star :conf


It won't make him a star, he's already a star, but it will be a meaningful fight in his career, beating a monster at 175lbs. 
Ward doesn't know it yet but he's going to move up to 175lbs when Mekhontsev and Beterbiev arrives to rule the roost.

Ward should continue fighting bums while Chavez Jr, GGG and Froch all fight eachother, make their money and are ready to lose to Ward.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

So basically he has retired right?

Doesn't want to move to 175 or down to 160 and no one at 168 is worth fighting and if they are then they dont want to fight.

Well he had a semi decent career, maybes he can get a job on the announce table.


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## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

Ward doesn't half talk some shite. He can't see where the money fights are in a division with Stevenson, Kovalev, Hopkins, Pascal...

Not being able to make fights because fighters are on different networks is the biggest turd we've been served in boxing recently, and we get served a lot of turd.


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## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

Chatty said:


> So basically he has retired right?
> 
> Doesn't want to move to 175 or down to 160 and no one at 168 is worth fighting and if they are then they dont want to fight.
> 
> Well he had a semi decent career, maybes he can get a job on the announce table.


This. WTF is Ward thinking here?

All I ever see from Ward is him whinging that people want him to have big fights and he doesn't want to. Either shit or get off the pot.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

He could drop back down a weight class like Mayweather did after Oscar, Cotto and Canelo after having been catapulted 1000 miles closer to stardom than he is now.

No, Kovalev probably isn't a PPV fight. Ward, you're not a PPV fighter though. It's unfortunate but it's true. Beating SuperKova would be a massive statement though. Taking this fight at 175 outside of Oakland would immediately shut the haters up. Immediately. Kova's seen as the #1 #2 in his division. No part of this fight doesn't make sense.

It's so frustrating liking a fighter as much as I like Ward but hearing him say shit like this.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I don't understand the people on here defending him tbh. Why the fuck would you say it is a good idea for him to sit on his arse and fight nobody rather than take a fight?

All I can surmise about these posters is that they aren't actually fans of the sport.


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## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

MAG1965 said:


> With Cotto fighting Martinez for PPV, and Mayweather fighting anyone, people would pay for Chavez vs. Ward or GGG vs. Ward. Thing is he is looking for the perfect fight and perfect situation. If he fights and wins even if it is against not so great guys, he will stay active and big fights will happen.


I'm not sure he's looking for the perfect fight. He's just looking for cash. This is the guy who was going to drag pavlik out of the bar for a fight, and then bigged up Julio Cheech and Chong Chavez (despite him being schooled by a small MW), only to turn against him when it was clear he wasn't getting the fight.

He has the attitude of Mayweather but with the drawing ability of a special needs arts student.


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## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)

shaunster101 said:


> He has the attitude of Mayweather but with the drawing ability of a special needs arts student.


:rofl


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> I'm not sure he's looking for the perfect fight. He's just looking for cash. This is the guy who was going to drag pavlik out of the bar for a fight, and then bigged up Julio Cheech and Chong Chavez (despite him being schooled by a small MW), only to turn against him when it was clear he wasn't getting the fight.
> 
> He has the attitude of Mayweather but with the drawing ability of a special needs arts student.


So much gold in there I'm not going to even highlight any.
Hasn't Bernard already said he won't fight Ward BTW?

And MAG,you really think GGG would be a PPV event over there? Ward is far too good to be even considering fighting Chavez,as it is a disgraceful mismatch when it's abundantly clear that Jr is only at 168 because they couldn't get him down to 160 any longer?
He has size to hide flaws at 160,and flaws growing out of flaws at 168.The fight with Froch is a better sell because Jr has a slight chance.
GGG hasn't fought a name yet and is still fighting in Reservation Casinos.I just don't see how that fight attracts a single casual at this point.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Andre and Calzaghe should get together and drown their butthurt over a few shandies.
They all seem awfully salty over Cash picking up that $14m.


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## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

He needs to just get in the ring and fight the top names on hbo or showtime. Forget ppv for now because right now he is not a ppv fighter.


Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Lunny said:


> This. WTF is Ward thinking here?
> 
> All I ever see from Ward is him whinging that people want him to have big fights and he doesn't want to. Either shit or get off the pot.


Lmao! What big fights please list them

Froch wont fight him, Golovkin wont fight him, Hopkins wont fight him, Stevenson is on a different network, so that leaves Kovalev

Please tell me what.big fights is Ward missing out on

He cleared out super middkeweight, that leaves light hea y and Kovalev as the only interesting fight


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Andre and Calzaghe should get together and drown their butthurt over a few shandies.
> They all seem awfully salty over Cash picking up that $14m.


:rofl It's an awful waste of his prime but when so much of the blame seems to lie with the man himself and his piss-poor attitude, it's hard not to laugh.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Chatty said:


> So basically he has retired right?
> 
> Doesn't want to move to 175 or down to 160 and no one at 168 is worth fighting and if they are then they dont want to fight.
> 
> Well he had a semi decent career, maybes he can get a job on the announce table.


Lol. Ward is an olympic gold medalist, hasnt lost fight since he was 12 and cleaned out his division before he was 28.

Semi-decent? No son he is arguably the greatest super middleweight of all time, not quite hof yet but only because looking back most would realize there was nothing special about Froch, Kessler and Abraham


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

Rockinghorseshit said:


> http://www.boxingscene.com/andre-ward-if-i-beat-sergey-kovalev-then-what--78770
> 
> Ward is obviously frightened at the prospect of moving up. Where is team slick now to defend this cowardly move?


Andre if you beat Kovalev you have a legit win at 175 and Stevenson can't run from you. It can't do anything but positive. SMH


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Juiceboxbiotch said:


> Andre if you beat Kovalev you have a legit win at 175 and Stevenson can't run from you. It can't do anything but positive. SMH


Stevenson is with showtime. It was made clear in the article


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## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

Ward already defeated a clone of Kovalev in Rodriguez. Easy work, didn't lose a round, E-Rod was the same size as Kovalev or bigger too. He was dominated almost exclusively by Ward's power jab.


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## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Lmao! What big fights please list them
> 
> Froch wont fight him, Golovkin wont fight him, Hopkins wont fight him, Stevenson is on a different network, so that leaves Kovalev
> 
> ...


Why not fight Kovalev then?

And the network thing is a massive turd sandwich. Work out a deal. Fighters blaming matchmaking on their networks and promoters isn't acceptqble. Why does everyone swalloww this stuff like it's fair enough?


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Lol. Ward is an olympic gold medalist, hasnt lost fight since he was 12 and cleaned out his division before he was 28.
> 
> Semi-decent? No son he is arguably the greatest super middleweight of all time, not quite hof yet but only because looking back most would realize there was nothing special about Froch, Kessler and Abraham


You are a retard. At this point Ward has beaten Froch, Kessler and a drained as fuck Dawson. He is nowhere near HOF. He has the talent to do so but not gonna get there sitting on his arse which is exactly the point.

Anateur credentials dont count in the pros.


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Stevenson is with showtime. It was made clear in the article


:conf
Ward is out of opponents. Now, if he wants a big fight he needs to do something that doesn't make sense, like rematch Froch. He's stuck under his ill-advised contract and the only people who want to fight him are unknown or he already kicked their ass and there is no interest.

It's a bummer.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Lunny said:


> Why not fight Kovalev then?
> 
> And the network thing is a massive turd sandwich. Work out a deal. Fighters blaming matchmaking on their networks and promoters isn't acceptqble. Why does everyone swalloww this stuff like it's fair enough?


Nah promoters dominate boxing. Theres only a few fighters who command enough draw to go against their promoters demands. Ward is trying to leave dibella and dibella is sticking it to him for his insolence


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Juiceboxbiotch said:


> :conf
> Ward is out of opponents. Now, if he wants a big fight he needs to do something that doesn't make sense, like rematch Froch. He's stuck under his ill-advised contract and the only people who want to fight him are unknown or he already kicked their ass and there is no interest.
> 
> It's a bummer.


I think Ward would love to fight Froch but Froch doesnt want it. He wants easy fights and huge pay days. His fans call him cash and could care less if he fights tough opponents. Hopefully Chavez does the impossible and sparks him. Cant have a coward who doesnt want to fight the best at number 2 in the division


----------



## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

That damn Lou dibella strong arming ward


----------



## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

lol. There's always gonna be someone Ward is ducking.


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> I think Ward would love to fight Froch but Froch doesnt want it. He wants easy fights and huge pay days. His fans call him cash and could care less if he fights tough opponents. Hopefully Chavez does the impossible and sparks him. Cant have a coward who doesnt want to fight the best at number 2 in the division


I think Froch will take the fight in England. But I can't be the only one not really interested in that fight. It has the same outcome as before IMO

Why are you so interested in seeing that again? Why aren't you interested in seeing Ward take on bigger challenges in stead of staying in a division he already completely dominated?


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Chatty said:


> You are a retard. At this point Ward has beaten Froch, Kessler and a drained as fuck Dawson. He is nowhere near HOF. He has the talent to do so but not gonna get there sitting on his arse which is exactly the point.
> 
> Anateur credentials dont count in the pros.


Arguably the grestest super middleweight of sll times is not a semi-decent career. its a really good career, I thinj you are just blinded by the fact he did it without breaking much of a sweat

Now hes 30, hardly ancient, miles and miled above his peers who are afraid to fight him and probably has given his style 5-7 peak years left.

If a lumbering caveman like Froch can maintain in this cesspool of a division at 37 Ward will certainly have an easy run for a long time yet


----------



## griffin (Aug 7, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> I think Ward would love to fight Froch but Froch doesnt want it. He wants easy fights and huge pay days. His fans call him cash and could care less if he fights tough opponents. Hopefully Chavez does the impossible and sparks him. Cant have a coward who doesnt want to fight the best at number 2 in the division


Should just fight Kovalev then, Froch likely won't fight him, Chavez probably makes more money against GGG or Froch, that doesn't leave many options for Ward at 168 lbs.

Kovalev is a top 3 belt holder at the weight above would be a good win for Ward.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Theron said:


> Even with all his running he was full of muscle, i could not see him going to lightheavy unless he got way to bulky or got old and fatter.
> 
> This is him weighing in the range of 157-160, i dont see another 15 pounds of just muscle fitting on his frame.
> [/IMG]


Why would he need to gain another 15 pounds?
Roy didn't weigh over 200 pounds when he got a hw strap.
Armstrong was 133 when he got the welterweight title.
Robinson was 157 pounds when he fought Maxim
The Barbados Demon was 147 pounds when he stopped the man who would KO Jack Johnson a year later.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> I think Ward would love to fight Froch but Froch doesnt want it. He wants easy fights and huge pay days. His fans call him cash and *could care less* if he fights tough opponents. Hopefully Chavez does the impossible and sparks him. Cant have a coward who doesnt want to fight the best at number 2 in the division


Please observe 00:49 - 02:06. Do it for the Queen if not for me.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Juiceboxbiotch said:


> I think Froch will take the fight in England. But I can't be the only one not really interested in that fight. It has the same outcome as before IMO
> 
> Why are you so interested in seeing that again? Why aren't you interested in seeing Ward take on bigger challenges in stead of staying in a division he already completely dominated?


I dont but I dont like Ward being disrespected when the clear number 2 in the division is afraid of him

Ward would gladly fight in England but as he says Froch wants nothing to do with it.

All we heard from his fans for months was how this fight would be different in England and how Wards not provwn because he doesnt fight away from home yet turn yellow when the fights on the table

Same goes for golovkin and his weakass fans

I havent seen much of Kovalev could he challenge Ward?


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> I dont but I dont like Ward being disrespected when the clear number 2 in the division is afraid of him
> 
> Ward would gladly fight in England but as he says Froch wants nothing to do with it.
> 
> ...


I think it's pretty irrelevant that Froch doesn't want to fight Ward again. When the #1 guy already beat the #2 guy convincingly, there aren't gonna be a whole lot of people calling for the rematch other than the #2 guys most butt-hurt, nut-hugging supporters.

The right thing to do right now for Ward is move up and fight Kovalev for his belt.

The right thing to do right now for Froch is come to Vegas and fight Chavez, or go to MSG to fight GGG.

And where's the GGG hate come from? I can understand being annoyed with some of his fans, but GGG doesn't do anything but kick ass. He and his people are trying to make bigger fights but for some reason only Daniel Geale is stepping up...


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Juiceboxbiotch said:


> I think it's pretty irrelevant that Froch doesn't want to fight Ward again. When the #1 guy already beat the #2 guy convincingly, there aren't gonna be a whole lot of people calling for the rematch other than the #2 guys most butt-hurt, nut-hugging supporters.
> 
> The right thing to do right now for Ward is move up and fight Kovalev for his belt.
> 
> ...


Golovkin trainer said he was the best from 154-168. Ward said ok lets do it and suddenly they turn yelliw as well

Again I see alot of talk around Ward but nobody actually wanting to fight him.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

GGG should unify the division first before moving up.
He's only had like 2 or 3 fights against top 10 middleweights or so (Macklin, and maybe 2 more.)


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

Ward vs. Boone II would make about as much sense as Ward vs. Froch II at this point. Maybe even more... Boone has a KO over Stevenson... why not? :lol:


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Golovkin trainer said he was the best from 154-168. Ward said ok lets do it and suddenly they turn yelliw as well
> 
> Again I see alot of talk around Ward but nobody actually wanting to fight him.


And Ward said he wants a Heavyweight title... He already beat all the supposed best at 168, why isn't he taking a step toward heavy with a couple good fights at 175? He'd rather sit and defend his 168 straps against dudes he already beat? Momentum killer man.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Juiceboxbiotch said:


> And Ward said he wants a Heavyweight title... He already beat all the supposed best at 168, why isn't he taking a step toward heavy with a couple good fights at 175? He'd rather sit and defend his 168 straps against dudes he already beat? Momentum killer man.


He wants money fights. 175 is just as dead as 168 you get past Kovalev. Btw has Kovalev team shown interest?


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> He wants money fights. 175 is just as dead as 168 you get past Kovalev. Btw has Kovalev team shown interest?


I honestly don't know if Kovalev has shown interest :lol:. But I would be interested in almost any opponent for Ward at 175. Anybody. Just take a tiny step at some progress in stead of pointing the finger elsewhere.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> He wants money fights. 175 is just as dead as 168 you get past Kovalev. Btw has Kovalev team shown interest?


Then why would he want Golovkin who isn't a big money fight either?
Atleast at 175 there's Kovalev, Hopkins and Stevenson.

I just want Ward to fight again.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Realistically speaking what sort of purse could Ward make fighting Pascal in Canada or Braehmer in Germany? I'm amazed that he made almost 2 million against Edwin.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Arguably the grestest super middleweight of sll times is not a semi-decent career. its a really good career, I thinj you are just blinded by the fact he did it without breaking much of a sweat
> 
> Now hes 30, hardly ancient, miles and miled above his peers who are afraid to fight him and probably has given his style 5-7 peak years left.
> 
> If a lumbering caveman like Froch can maintain in this cesspool of a division at 37 Ward will certainly have an easy run for a long time yet


Super Middleweight is a bit of a shit division historically, its only been around 30 years and its never really had many dominant champions as middleweight and LHW were considered better and more legit weight classes for a good chunk of that 30. Its not like it has a heavy history to contend against.

He's still not the best, his resume isn't great but he is young and with a style for longevity, he may not be able to stay there for much longer and even if he does there is not a lot left in the division for him to improve his standings.

But as I have been saying, if he aint going to fight then it is matterless, until he sorts his promotion problems out and starts fighting again he is completely irrelevant at this point. If he doesn't have a fight in the next 5 months he loses his standings to Froch, even though he is better Froch is beating better competition than him consistently.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Super Middleweight is a bit of a shit division historically, its only been around 30 years and its never really had many dominant champions as middleweight and LHW were considered better and more legit weight classes for a good chunk of that 30. Its not like it has a heavy history to contend against.
> 
> He's still not the best, his resume isn't great but he is young and with a style for longevity, he may not be able to stay there for much longer and even if he does there is not a lot left in the division for him to improve his standings.
> 
> But as I have been saying, if he aint going to fight then it is matterless, until he sorts his promotion problems out and starts fighting again he is completely irrelevant at this point. If he doesn't have a fight in the next 5 months he loses his standings to Froch, even though he is better Froch is beating better competition than him consistently.


You view Groves as better than 185lb Rodriguez? Based on?

And if the second best pound for pound fighter in the world is irrelevant why are their so many threads aout him

Btw you beat the man to be the man, Froch doesnt seem interested in that so thatll never happen


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

You usually spit the truth n I like you. But the bottom line is GGG has business to handle in his weight class it's takin long as hell but that's what it is ward has nomore business left in his weight class. I don't care about fighters movin up. It's on then when they choose to. An who cares what his trainer said. Ward said out his own mouth he would end up at heavy when it's all said n done. See we can go back n forth all day in this.


MichiganWarrior said:


> Golovkin trainer said he was the best from 154-168. Ward said ok lets do it and suddenly they turn yelliw as well
> 
> Again I see alot of talk around Ward but nobody actually wanting to fight him.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> You view Groves as better than 185lb Rodriguez? Based on?
> 
> And if the second best pound for pound fighter in the world is irrelevant why are their so many threads aout him
> 
> Btw you beat the man to be the man, Froch doesnt seem interested in that so thatll never happen


1, They are about the same, neither are majorly proven at the level but Bute, Mack, Kessler, Groves x2 >>>>>> Dawson & Rdriguez - dont think anyone could deny that.

2, he's irrelevant because he is doing fuck all and the threads about him are about him doing fuck all.

3, Ward refuses to move from Oakland where he can draw a couple of family members whereas Froch can draw tens of thousands away, Ward was asked about the rematch on numerous occasions and said he would only fight at home so he effectively said no himself.


----------



## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

Juiceboxbiotch said:


> I think it's pretty irrelevant that Froch doesn't want to fight Ward again. When the #1 guy already beat the #2 guy convincingly, there aren't gonna be a whole lot of people calling for the rematch other than the #2 guys most butt-hurt, nut-hugging supporters.
> 
> The right thing to do right now for Ward is move up and fight Kovalev for his belt.
> 
> ...


This. A Froch fight is pure shit


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

The idea that Froch doesn't want the rematch is bullshit, he just doesn't want it in Jokeland. Is he going to forgo millions if not tens of millions of dollars/pounds to fight in Oakland? Probably not and Ward can't arrange a fight at the minute anyway so it's moot


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## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

@MichiganWarrior acting like one of the biggest fanboys I've ever seen. It's all a bit cringe.

Not much difference between Froch and Ward here. There's just a lot of jealously.

Froch wants big money fights, but there's none left at home so he's going to (once again) travel abroad to get one.

Ward wants big money fights, there aren't any for him at his weight class, but he doesn't want to leave his division or his backyard to get it. Instead he's moaning about not having to go to 175, while calling out a MW who still has unfinished business in his own division.

If you want something you need to go out and make it happen. Sitting at home and whinging about how no one will take a massive paycut to fight you isn't going to achieve anything.

I wish he'd just sort his attitude out, take a dose of reality and get back in the ring. He's not big draw, he's not a star and he's not a PPV fighter. When he accepts this and starts looking at how to become those things then he might start making progress. It's a pain in the arse to see such a promising career go so stale. I understand he's got promotional issues, but his misplaced sense of entitlement is all part of the reason he's largely irrelevant now.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> @MichiganWarrior acting like one of the biggest fanboys I've ever seen. It's all a bit cringe.
> 
> Not much difference between Froch and Ward here. There's just a lot of jealously.
> 
> ...


Utter nonsense. Ward said if the offer was good he'd fight Froch in England and said hes tried to start negotiations with Froch in regards to him slapping him around again but Frochy poo wont pick up the mobile

As for Froch traveling, Chavez jr? Oh shiiit the road warrior.

The middleweight youre referring to spent 2 years whining abouy how nobody would fight him while Wards screaming fight me

Now suddenly he has "unfinished business". Daniel Geale lollololol

The hypocrisy is frankly exhausting.


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## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

JohnAnthony said:


> The Mayweather Mentality is Strong in this One!
> 
> Give me a Keith Thurman Mentality over an Andre Ward Any Day.
> 
> Bitch Ass Move, you fight Kovalev because life isnt' all about Money, Some people do a Sport in order to create a legacy and prove they're the best.


He's already done that, there's no debate if he's the best...he's at a point now where he's looking to fight for money, he wants big fights. If Kovalev beats Stevenson or does something to get know, I'm sure that would change things but as of now, there's no reason for this fight.


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## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Utter nonsense. Ward said if the offer was good he'd fight Froch in England and said hes tried to start negotiations with Froch in regards to him slapping him around again but Frochy poo wont pick up the mobile
> 
> As for Froch traveling, Chavez jr? Oh shiiit the road warrior.
> 
> ...


Hmmmmmmmm that post started badly and didn't get any better. Hard to know where to even start.

"Ward says" . . . The guy has done nothing but talk guff for the last 6 months. He's claiming he's being ducked and trying to get fights but he's in the middle of suing his promoter. He claimed Chavez was a great opponent, until he looked more likely to fight Froch and then he turned in to a crap cherry pick. It's goes on.

Yeah, that middleweight complained he couldn't get good fights - but all the while he was taking regular fights, across different continents with whoever they could get to build his profile and raise his earning power. Ward could learn a thing or two.

As for the Froch rematch, where exactly is this bigmoney coming from? The fight itself is a bit of a forgone conclusion, and there's little demand for it. If it's in America it's not going to be a PPV fight, and Ward doesn't put bums in seats so it's not going to give either fighter a respectable purse. And even if Ward meant what he said about coming to the UK (even though he's said he wouldn't) then it's not a big fight here - Froch - Degale would be bigger. No one knows who Ward is over here, which again goes back to the point of him not making things happen . . .

We just had the biggest fight in British history (kinda) a few weeks ago - boxing got more press coverage here than at any other point in my life. Ward could've been over here in fight week raising his profile, been in every newspaper and on tv in millions of homes making sure everyone knows who he is and that he's the real champ. Could've really raised interest in that rematch. Instead he was in Oakland while two less talented SMWs we're fighting in front of 80k people and splitting an $18m purse.

And I know you try to use humour and sarcasm to disguise your lack of a coherent argument, but it's pretty transparent. You say 'ohhhhh geale' but he's a far cry better than the opponent ward has got lined up. At least he's getting in the ring and making things happen. And the same for 'Chavez in Vegas - road warrior'; it may not be the best opponent for Froch but he's actually doing something, travelling further for a fight than Ward ever has and earning more than Ward's biggest payday - while accomplishing a personal goal.

But by all means please do keep telling us how dre is doing the right thing by doing nothing and it's all the other fighters out there trying to make things happen who are wrong.


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## DaveyBoyEssexUK (Jun 8, 2013)

How many title defences has Ward made?? Theres a few fights to be made at 168 but he needs to accept hes not the money man and have some humility like the so called humble christian that he is


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## DaveyBoyEssexUK (Jun 8, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> Hmmmmmmmm that post started badly and didn't get any better. Hard to know where to even start.
> 
> "Ward says" . . . The guy has done nothing but talk guff for the last 6 months. He's claiming he's being ducked and trying to get fights but he's in the middle of suing his promoter. He claimed Chavez was a great opponent, until he looked more likely to fight Froch and then he turned in to a crap cherry pick. It's goes on.
> 
> ...


 *CLAPS* Bravo Bravo!


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

JamieC said:


> The idea that Froch doesn't want the rematch is bullshit, he just doesn't want it in Jokeland. Is he going to forgo millions if not tens of millions of dollars/pounds to fight in Oakland? Probably not and Ward can't arrange a fight at the minute anyway so it's moot


Beat me to it mate.Froch wants a big paying fight in Vegas but big paying fights and Vegas are allergic to Ward.
Shameful that such a talented fighter is scraping around for loose change in his own country while Cash is a distant #2 but the only show in town.


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## DaveyBoyEssexUK (Jun 8, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Beat me to it mate.*Froch wants a big paying fight in Vegas but big paying fights and Vegas are allergic to Ward.*
> Shameful that such a talented fighter is scraping around for loose change in his own country while Cash is a distant #2 but the only show in town.


And that will always be a shadow over Wards name


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## 2377 (Jun 6, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> He needs to do something. Kovalev is a high risk/low reward fight now but could be a big one soon.
> 
> GEt in the ring Andre. You are wasting your prime. I'm literally offering you my money (again).


THIS.

Honestly GGG has plenty of unfinished business at middelweight; he's not going to be moving up to 168 anytime soon. So if Ward plans on sitting idle until Golovkin moves up, he's gonna waiting a while.

Ward just needs to fucking fight! His people should be on the phone RIGHT NOW neogtiating a rematch with Froch IN LONDON at Wembley. That's a fairly easy fight for Andre, it's a huge payday, and HBO will definitely approve it.


----------



## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

Montero said:


> THIS.
> 
> Honestly GGG has plenty of unfinished business at middelweight; he's not going to be moving up to 168 anytime soon. So if Ward plans on sitting idle until Golovkin moves up, he's gonna waiting a while.
> 
> Ward just needs to fucking fight! His people should be on the phone RIGHT NOW neogtiating a rematch with Froch IN LONDON at Wembley. That's a fairly easy fight for Andre, it's a huge payday, and HBO will definitely approve it.


Froch vs Ward doesn't get close to selling out Wembley and doesn't generate the same PPV ££££ as the Groves rematch. Plus, is Ward really going to accept less money than Froch is they were to have a rematch? I also can't see HBO putting up too much money for an afternoon fight, which it would be in US time.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

ward is like winky back in the 90s

wright had to fight out of his natural weight class because there just wasnt any money at 154.


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> @MichiganWarrior acting like one of the biggest fanboys I've ever seen. It's all a bit cringe.
> 
> Not much difference between Froch and Ward here. There's just a lot of jealously.
> 
> ...


Absolutely spot on, as evidenced by the haste with which MW leapt in to denounce it. Fucking fanboys... atsch


----------



## Pimp C (Jun 3, 2013)

Beating Kovalev would make even more people duck him than there already are.:deal It's a no win situation for Ward.


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> Hmmmmmmmm that post started badly and didn't get any better. Hard to know where to even start.
> 
> "Ward says" . . . The guy has done nothing but talk guff for the last 6 months. He's claiming he's being ducked and trying to get fights but he's in the middle of suing his promoter. He claimed Chavez was a great opponent, until he looked more likely to fight Froch and then he turned in to a crap cherry pick. It's goes on.
> 
> ...


Another great post. The conversation's so one-sided it's like a gang rape...


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## nvs (May 16, 2013)

@shaunster101 spitting the truth in this bitch :deal


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## DaveyBoyEssexUK (Jun 8, 2013)

Pimp C said:


> Beating Kovalev would make even more people duck him than there already are.:deal It's a no win situation for Ward.


It would certainly help his legacy so it is good overall, plus im sure theres a few who would fight Ward but again thats more down to ward himself


----------



## Nucking Futs (Jul 12, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> Hmmmmmmmm that post started badly and didn't get any better. Hard to know where to even start.
> 
> "Ward says" . . . The guy has done nothing but talk guff for the last 6 months. He's claiming he's being ducked and trying to get fights but he's in the middle of suing his promoter. He claimed Chavez was a great opponent, until he looked more likely to fight Froch and then he turned in to a crap cherry pick. It's goes on.
> 
> ...


What he said


----------



## 2377 (Jun 6, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> Froch vs Ward doesn't get close to selling out Wembley and doesn't generate the same PPV ££££ as the Groves rematch. Plus, is Ward really going to accept less money than Froch is they were to have a rematch? I also can't see HBO putting up too much money for an afternoon fight, which it would be in US time.


It's at least worth looking into. If not Wembley, than another smaller venue. I'm sure they could negotiate pay and Ward could demand over half the purse since he'd be coming to the UK and after all, he dominated the first fight. HBO could also negotiate putting the fight on later in the night over there so it's not too early in the USA.

All I'm saying is that when Ward claims he doesn't have options, there's nobody out there, etc - there's a makable, winnable, easy payday rematch with Froch right there. It would help Ward shake off some ring rust, silence a few critics of him never fighting abroad, and get him some more title belts. ANYTHING is better than not fighting.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

The two Andres should fight each other, the winner gets three years off from boxing.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Montero said:


> It's at least worth looking into. If not Wembley, than another smaller venue. I think a Ward-Froch rematch in the UK could draw 50K+ fans at the gate. I'm sure they could negotiate pay and Ward could demand over half the purse since he'd be coming to the UK and after all, he dominated the first fight. HBO could also negotiate putting the fight on later in the night over there so it's not too early in the USA.
> 
> All I'm saying is that when Ward claims he doesn't have options, there's nobody out there, etc - there's a makable, winnable, easy payday rematch with Froch right there. ANYTHING is better than not fighting.


Ward can't ask for more money than Froch when its Carl 'Cash' Froch who is putting the bums in seats. It would be harsh on Cash if Andre got more money for only selling seats to his mom, dad and missus and leave Froch to sell the rest.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

There's still plenty of opponents to fight in the super middleweight division, so he shouldn't move up quite yet. I'd be down for a Chavez fight. DeGale sounds good. Froch. Etc. After he beats all of em he should move to light heavy and then whoop Kovalev/Stevenson. Ward is almost too skilled for his own good. He can't get any fights because nobody wants to fight the guy.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> "What if I lose?" -Floyd Mayweather
> 
> "What if I win?" -Andre Ward


:rofl:deal:yep


----------



## 2377 (Jun 6, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Ward can't ask for more money than Froch when its Carl 'Cash' Froch who is putting the bums in seats. It would be harsh on Cash if Andre got more money for only selling seats to his mom, dad and missus and leave Froch to sell the rest.


That's why Ward would have to come to the UK and fight on Froch's terms. Let's be real, even though Ward shutout Froch when they fought a few years back and is considered THE champ at 168, Froch would be the "A side" of the promotion. So Ward makes concessions - he comes to the UK, fights in Froch's backyard where 99% of the fans will be there for Froch. I don't think a 50/50 split would be out of the question, but Ward could try to negotiate a 55/45 or "45/45/winner takes 10% more" type of scenario.

Like I said before, it's worth looking into for Team Ward. ANYTHING is better than not fighting.


----------



## DaveyBoyEssexUK (Jun 8, 2013)

Montero said:


> That's why Ward would have to come to the UK and fight on Froch's terms. Let's be real, even though Ward shutout Froch when they fought a few years back and is considered THE champ at 168, Froch would be the "A side" of the promotion. So Ward makes concessions - he comes to the UK, fights in Froch's backyard where 99% of the fans will be there for Froch. I don't think a 50/50 split would be out of the question, but Ward could try to negotiate a 55/45 or "45/45/winner takes 10% more" type of scenario.
> 
> Like I said before, it's worth looking into for Team Ward. ANYTHING is better than not fighting.


Ward is his own worst enemy going right back to before the Super Six demanding that showtime have all his fight at home or he wouldnt enter and now that attitude is hurting his career


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

DaveyBoyEssexUK said:


> Ward is his own worst enemy going right back to before the Super Six demanding that showtime have all his fight at home or he wouldnt enter and now that attitude is hurting his career


I never heard of that demand. His fights were on US soil, but I thought that was more Showtime keeping the fights in prime time than anything. You have a source for this?

And agreed, Andre has been his own worst enemy in not being more active.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> I'm not sure he's looking for the perfect fight. He's just looking for cash. This is the guy who was going to drag pavlik out of the bar for a fight, and then bigged up Julio Cheech and Chong Chavez (despite him being schooled by a small MW), only to turn against him when it was clear he wasn't getting the fight.
> 
> He has the attitude of Mayweather but with the drawing ability of a special needs arts student.


there is something about him where he thinks he has arrived at superstar status, and he is not quite there yet. That can be a problem. He overprices himself or his status, and then has to realize he isn't quite as marketable as he thought. There are a few more fights he has to win to be a Mayweather or Pacman.


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## DaveyBoyEssexUK (Jun 8, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> I never heard of that demand. His fights were on US soil, but I thought that was more Showtime keeping the fights in prime time than anything. You have a source for this?
> 
> And agreed, Andre has been his own worst enemy in not being more active.


I believe Lou DiBella said Goosen demanded that ward have his fights at home which was put in Andre`s contract pre tournament. Was ages back but i`ll look for the source( but the fact ward did have all his fights at home kinda backs that up a bit)


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

DaveyBoyEssexUK said:


> I believe Lou DiBella said Goosen demanded that ward have his fights at home which was put in Andre`s contract pre tournament. Was ages back but i`ll look for the source( but the fact ward did have all his fights at home kinda backs that up a bit)


Two in Oakland, one in LA and one in NY. Two home, one close, and then NY to make the Froch fight as prime time for both countries as possible. Not saying he shouldn't have traveled, I just don't know if he actually made the demand (in which case I lose some respect) or simply took advantage of the opportunity (which any fighter would do). I've always felt it was the latter.


----------



## DaveyBoyEssexUK (Jun 8, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> Two in Oakland, one in LA and one in NY. *Two home, one close, and then NY* to make the Froch fight as prime time for both countries as possible. Not saying he shouldn't have traveled, I just don't know if he actually made the demand (in which case I lose some respect) or simply took advantage of the opportunity (which any fighter would do). I've always felt it was the latter.


Well we know we are not going to see eye to eye on the home thing lol


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Chatty said:


> I don't understand the people on here defending him tbh. Why the fuck would you say it is a good idea for him to sit on his arse and fight nobody rather than take a fight?
> 
> All I can surmise about these posters is that they aren't actually fans of the sport.


nobody is saying that. Ward cant really fight anybody right now because of his lawsuit.

But if he could fight, it'd be better for him to fight at his natural weight class with more doable fights than to move up for one opponent. If yall read the article, you'll see how he mentioned that Hopkins and Stevenson are on Showtime.

Yeah and I do agree that he should just fight at both weightclasses or move back down after he fights Kovalev though. He probably feels that once he moves up in weight, he's there to stay


----------



## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

DaveyBoyEssexUK said:


> Well we know we are not going to see eye to eye on the home thing lol


I just don't see anywhere else to put the Froch fight other than NY. Showtime was the lead network, after all.

The LA fight was 500 miles from Oakland and in an Armenian stronghold (I was surprised at the number of AA fans), but there was no need for a second Oakland fight. He should have crossed an ocean. I've always conceded that (I'm not MW).


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## Rasputin (May 17, 2013)




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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

quincy k said:


> ward is like winky back in the 90s
> 
> wright had to fight out of his natural weight class because there just wasnt any money at 154.


Only difference being was that Winky got a passport and served a good apprenticeship on the road when he couldn't get fights whilst Ward has the benefit of being a recognised champion but refuses to leave California.But I do see where you're coming from.Unappreciated skill and neglect in their homeland.


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## DaveyBoyEssexUK (Jun 8, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> I just don't see anywhere else to put the Froch fight other than NY. Showtime was the lead network, after all.
> 
> The LA fight was 500 miles from Oakland and in an Armenian stronghold (I was surprised at the number of AA fans), but there was no need for a second Oakland fight. He should have crossed an ocean. I've always conceded that (I'm not MW).


Heck i know your not MW! SMW is slowly creeping back to Britain soon you`ll have Groves and Degale at the top Ward needs to fight one of them or Froch but the money is in the Uk.

Btw have you noticed a resurgence in the lower weights i.e SFW BW SBW and FW in Britain?


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Rasputin said:


>


What the fuck has a scene from the Sopranos got to do with this HBO commentator's affairs?


----------



## AzarZ (Dec 17, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> There are more fights at LHW. AT SMW there's only GGG but Golovkin won't move up anytime soon by the time h does Ward will have wasted his prime and Chavez won't get by Froch seriously who wants to see Chavez get beaten down by Ward? Degale has no chance vs Ward. At LHW there's Pascal, Kovalev, Stevenson and maybe even Hopkins


Hopkins n Stevenson are ruled out as theyre on SHO and he cant get out of his contract. That leaves only Pascal and Kovalev. Not really much for him at lhw.


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## Rasputin (May 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> What the fuck has a scene from the Sopranos got to do with this HBO commentator's affairs?


lol. It reminded me of the Sopranos too.


----------



## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

DaveyBoyEssexUK said:


> Heck i know your not MW! SMW is slowly creeping back to Britain soon you`ll have Groves and Degale at the top Ward needs to fight one of them or Froch but the money is in the Uk.
> 
> Btw have you noticed a resurgence in the lower weights i.e SFW BW SBW and FW in Britain?


168 has never been big here. A couple stars passing through, but it has always been bigger in the UK.

I haven't noticed a ton of the resurgence. I'm busy enough right now that catching all the domestic broadcasts is a little tough. But, I'm always happy to see boxing grow and improve.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

'



> Ward says" . . . The guy has done nothing but talk guff for the last 6 months. He's claiming he's being ducked and trying to get fights but he's in the middle of suing his promoter.


Thats neither here nor there regardless of whether he is suinf his promoter his promoter has an obligation to fet him fights as Ward stats in the article. Now I know this is deflection to account for you and your country mens cowardice but come now you can do better than promotional issues. If Froch was serious about ever gettinf in the ring with Ward whatever issues Ward was/is having would be sorted out quickly but we knoe thats simply not case. Froch as a coward does hid behind Wards supposed penchant for not leaving his home despite clapping him around one handed in Atlantic City 3,000 miles away from Oakland but in reality had no intention of fightinf Ward, thats just not honorable. I know in the uk thats consider clever, here its showinf a yellow belly and his and his loathsome fans petulant behavior is getting quite tiresome. Its why you have no champions, you fighters have no belly for the sport and your fans are so shell shocked from so many of your fighters failing at the biggest level youre just qs cowardly as they are



> claimed Chavez was a great opponent, until he looked more likely to fight Froch and then he turned in to a crap cherry pick. It's goes on.


Umm it wss you and your fans who derided Chavez same with Pavlik. It was "fight Carl in Britain in front of our best screaming drunks, nobody can beat our fighters when we start singing bastardized showtunes from the 50's! Look how well our soccer team does!"

Now its a great fight for Froch's career. Apparently itll be a great money maker for him.

So where are him and rachel taking you out dor dinner since you know youre more interested in him fighting chavez junior instead of taking on the best fighter of his generation?



> ah, that middleweight complained he couldn't get good fights - but all the while he was taking regular fights, across different continents with whoever they could get to build his profile and raise his earning power. Ward could learn a thing or two.


So fighting trash fighters across no mans land in front of nobody and almost zero coverage raised his profile more than beating the pound for pound second best fighter in his sport?

Beating asumo Adama is better than fighting Andre mutherfucking Ward

Holy shit boy really?! Bwahahhshshsha

Btw you think anyone knows who Daniel Geale is? Whose next for Golovkin? Chavez jr? Then Cotto? Exciting fights. I bet youllc enjoy them



> And even if Ward meant what he said about coming to the UK (even though he's said he wouldn't)


A lie, but carry on


> hen it's not a big fight here - Froch - Degale would be bigger. No one knows who Ward is over here, which again goes back to the point of him not making things happen . .


So a fight with the number 2 pound for pound fighter in the world wouldnt sell? Redemption against the man who beat him one handed wouldnt sell?

Wait for months you and your friends were saying how Ward doesnt travel, yet now the fight doesnt matter and it wont sell and its a forgone conclusion errrr

1. When Froch does retire dont say that Ward ducked him in England at the height of his illustrious reign, because I know thats whats gonna happen

2. Thats a real shitty excuse of a fanbase ole carly has. Only caring how much his next purse is instead of fighting the best



> e just had the biggest fight in British history


Nobody cares. Its like saying it was the biggest fight in xMalaysian history or Sri Lankan history. You have as many legit champs as eachother. Every week theres two Brit bums going at it infront of thousands. And thats ehy I cant totally blame Froch, his cowardly behavior is encouraged. Mediocrity is celebrated. Give me 10 khans instead one carl froch any day

Yawn this bores me. You failed to bring up any points of Ny points of any worth, I fear if I talk to you any longer the cowardice will rub off on me as well


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Only difference being was that Winky got a passport and served a gohod apprenticeship on the road when he couldn't get fights whilst Ward has the benefit of being a recognised champion but refuses to leave California.But I do see where you're coming from.Unappreciated skill and neglect in their homeland.


False. Ward has said on one occasion
that he is willing to fight Froch and or Kessler in their home locations depending on the offer e

Why does this lie keep being bandied about?


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

AzarZ said:


> Hopkins n Stevenson are ruled out as theyre on SHO and he cant get out of his contract. That leaves only Pascal and Kovalev. Not really much for him at lhw.


Ward is far too inactive to feel this entitled. Pascal and Kovalev are like the cream of the crop that Ward could get now. Froch wasn't really interested in the first Groves fight or the Mack fight but he took them because that's what you're supposed to do. Ward just needs to get in there with anyone atm. Shit, if a fight with SuperKova is on the table then he should snap it up immediately. It's more than he deserves at this point tbh. And I say that as a Ward fan.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> False. Ward has said on one occasion
> that he is willing to fight Froch and or Kessler in their home locations depending on the offer e
> 
> Why does this lie keep being bandied about?


As of this moment,Ward has never got a passport whilst Winky did.

But this "if the offer's right" and "tell Froch to stop using my name" followed now by "Froch won't pick up the phone" really has to stop.
Ward is clearly the best fighter in the division and fights out of the main country for top boxing.So let him make an offer of upwards of $10m since Ward is the man but Froch is a multi-million dollar fighter.
You're refusing to acknowledge the contradictions here when they're right in front of you.Froch is a big earner and would gladly fight Ward if the necessary money is in order.It just seems to make you awful salty that Ward can tell Froch not to use his name but can use Froch's when the well is dry even though we're all admitting that Andre has a 99% chance of winning.
It's not for Froch to make the offer.Let's see Ward offer the required sheckles THEN say Froch is scared.Until you acknowledge the mistakes Andre is making and change your tack,you're leaving yourself wide open to abuse here,and you know I'm not into that with you.
But you must acknowledge the whole picture,not just what you want to see.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> As of this moment,Ward has never got a passport whilst Winky did.
> 
> But this "if the offer's right" and "tell Froch to stop using my name" followed now by "Froch won't pick up the phone" really has to stop.
> Ward is clearly the best fighter in the division and fights out of the main country for top boxing.So let him make an offer of upwards of $10m since Ward is the man but Froch is a multi-million dollar fighter.
> ...


Its an internet forum. Whatever you Brit savages throw my way means little to me when im exposing your cowardice

Now you ssy its up to Wards team to make an offer? First tthats ridiculous. Second we have a comment from Hearn dating back to 2012 saying Ward was interested in a fight in England

Lsstly, whst would it take in your mind to get Froch and his cowardly fsnbase behind a fight with GOD?

80-20 with the fight in Carls living room with Rachel as ref and his mom as Andres cutman lol?

Please tell how does andre turn those yellow stomachs a more brave color?


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Its an internet forum. Whatever you Brit savages throw my way means little to me when im exposing your cowardice
> 
> Now you ssy its up to Wards team to make an offer? First tthats ridiculous. Second we have a comment from Hearn dating back to 2012 saying Ward was interested in a fight in England
> 
> ...


Try to be civil with you and that's what I get.
You're bringing up the same shit time after time and refuse to acknowledge that it's your own countrymen who have rejected Ward.
Have you ever travelled to Cali to get behind your man?


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> There's still plenty of opponents to fight in the super middleweight division, so he shouldn't move up quite yet. I'd be down for a Chavez fight. DeGale sounds good. Froch. Etc. After he beats all of em he should move to light heavy and then whoop Kovalev/Stevenson. Ward is almost too skilled for his own good. He can't get any fights because nobody wants to fight the guy.


"Nobody wants to fight the guy"

Well said guvna, well said.


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## DaveyBoyEssexUK (Jun 8, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> As of this moment,Ward has never got a passport whilst Winky did.
> 
> But this "if the offer's right" and "tell Froch to stop using my name" followed now by "Froch won't pick up the phone" really has to stop.
> Ward is clearly the best fighter in the division and fights out of the main country for top boxing.So let him make an offer of upwards of $10m since Ward is the man but Froch is a multi-million dollar fighter.
> ...


Well put, whats Andre got to lose here?? other than 0 but hes a level above Froch he cant be scared can he?


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Its an internet forum. Whatever you Brit savages throw my way means little to me when im exposing your cowardice
> 
> Now you ssy its up to Wards team to make an offer? First tthats ridiculous. Second we have a comment from Hearn dating back to 2012 saying Ward was interested in a fight in England
> 
> ...


And given that Ward has beaten Froch and only brings pauper's wages to the table alongside the fact that we all know Ward almost certainly wins the fight means that of course it's down to Ward to make the offer.He's the one desperate for money fights.
Not many people will hold it against Froch for not fighting Ward again for less than a fourteenth of his current wage.But even true Ward fans who actually pay to see the guy are saying he's shitting his career away.
You can't see the wood for the decaying auto factories.Head down to Oakland and support the guy then your opinion will have relevance here.
I was actually going to ask you why you keep playing this silly role when you're capable of so much better,but I'm starting to think that you can't help it.
Much better to come on and sound like a fool than actually engage in proper discussion though? I guess you're stuck in that rut.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> "Nobody wants to fight the guy"
> 
> Well said guvna, well said.


14 million bucks will buy a lot of icepacks and bitches to alternate holding them.I'm sure that swelling will be fine soon enough.
Not to mention that he broke Ward's hand with his jaw.
And because your countrymen reject a superb fighter,Haymon probably wouldn't touch him even if he does get out of the Goosen deal.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

DaveyBoyEssexUK said:


> Well put, whats Andre got to lose here?? other than 0 but hes a level above Froch he cant be scared can he?


Thanks mate,but it's only gonna fall on deaf reversed baseball cap covered ears.


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## DaveyBoyEssexUK (Jun 8, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Thanks mate,but it's only gonna fall on deaf reversed baseball cap covered ears.


Ofcourse it will :cheers


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## AzarZ (Dec 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Ward is far too inactive to feel this entitled. Pascal and Kovalev are like the cream of the crop that Ward could get now. Froch wasn't really interested in the first Groves fight or the Mack fight but he took them because that's what you're supposed to do. Ward just needs to get in there with anyone atm. Shit, if a fight with SuperKova is on the table then he should snap it up immediately. It's more than he deserves at this point tbh. And I say that as a Ward fan.


Wards in a contractual dispute though and thats the reason why hes inactive.


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## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

MAG1965 said:


> there is something about him where he thinks he has arrived at superstar status, and he is not quite there yet. That can be a problem. He overprices himself or his status, and then has to realize he isn't quite as marketable as he thought. There are a few more fights he has to win to be a Mayweather or Pacman.


:deal

Yep. He has the talent and some great wins, but he hasn't had that big crossover fight - which Pacquiao and Mayweather both had against ODLH. Unfortunately for him he doesn't have that fight available to him - he's already cleaned out his division comfortably, and there's no big 'stars'at that weight. Even if Golovkin came up to fight him or he rematches Froch, even if he went up and beat Kovalev at 175, while they're all great wins, they're not going to be that superfight he's looking for.

I just think the guy needs to be realistic about his career. Not every top fighter can be a massive star, it doesn't work like that. There more to it than just talent. I can understand being annoyed if fighters you've proven you're superior to are getting more money, attention and better fights but you've just got to get your head down and keep working. By all means get your promotional issues sorted, get the best deal that gives you the best chance to make money. But you can't just sit on the sidelines sniping at everyone else. It's not a good look and just makes you seem bitter.

The way he took a piss on the Froch groves fight is a prime example. A fight of that size that crosses over into the mainstream can only have a positive impact on boxing. But he couldn't acknowledge that, he had to play it down. Are you telling me he doesn't want to be fighting in front of 80k fans and making $13m for a fight? This is a guy that was going to fight Kelly Pavlik because it'd earn him a few quid. He's the champion in the division that Froch - Groves was happening in - he should have been glad it was happening, there was potentially a new opponent in his division who bought some money to the table. The fight was getting huge amounts of media attention, his face could have been in the papers and beamed into millions of sports fan's living rooms every day for a week with the caption '_Andre Ward: Unbeaten SMW Champion'_ beneath it, but he wasn't interested.

Boxing can suck, between the politics and the careful match making it can be difficult to make the best fights. Fighters are looking for the best risk to reward ratio, making sure that if they're taking an almost unwinnable fight then it's really going to have to pay a fair bit better than what they can get else where for an easier fight. Therefore if you're an elite fighter you're going to have to bring a lot to the table in order to get the opponents in to make the best fights fights. This is a problem that both Ward and Golovkin are having at the moment, but GGG is out there playing the game. At the moment Ward is playing no risk/no reward.

From a selfish point of view it's annoying because I'd want to see Ward fighting 3 times a year, improving and putting on great displays. But that doesn't look like happening any time soon. In the meantime I wish he'd stop with the talking until he does some walking because he isn't doing himself any favours.


----------



## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> '
> 
> Thats neither here nor there regardless of whether he is suinf his promoter his promoter has an obligation to fet him fights as Ward stats in the article. Now I know this is deflection to account for you and your country mens cowardice but come now you can do better than promotional issues. If Froch was serious about ever gettinf in the ring with Ward whatever issues Ward was/is having would be sorted out quickly but we knoe thats simply not case. Froch as a coward does hid behind Wards supposed penchant for not leaving his home despite clapping him around one handed in Atlantic City 3,000 miles away from Oakland but in reality had no intention of fightinf Ward, thats just not honorable. I know in the uk thats consider clever, here its showinf a yellow belly and his and his loathsome fans petulant behavior is getting quite tiresome. Its why you have no champions, you fighters have no belly for the sport and your fans are so shell shocked from so many of your fighters failing at the biggest level youre just qs cowardly as they are
> 
> ...


You really have fallen off.


----------



## 941jeremy (Jun 12, 2013)

He'll basically be in the same situation that Kovalev is currently in. Its a shit division for HBO fighters. He's likely better off at 168.


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## DaveyBoyEssexUK (Jun 8, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> And given that Ward has beaten Froch and only brings pauper's wages to the table alongside the fact that we all know Ward almost certainly wins the fight means that of course it's down to Ward to make the offer.He's the one desperate for money fights.
> Not many people will hold it against Froch for not fighting Ward again for less than a fourteenth of his current wage.But even true Ward fans who actually pay to see the guy are saying he's shitting his career away.
> You can't see the wood for the decaying auto factories.Head down to Oakland and support the guy then your opinion will have relevance here.
> I was actually going to ask you why you keep playing this silly role when you're capable of so much better,but I'm starting to think that you can't help it.
> Much better to come on and sound like a fool than actually engage in proper discussion though? I guess you're stuck in that rut.


Thats the difference between MW and JJ


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> 14 million bucks will buy a lot of icepacks and bitches to alternate holding them.I'm sure that swelling will be fine soon enough.
> Not to mention that he broke Ward's hand with his jaw.
> And because your countrymen reject a superb fighter,Haymon probably wouldn't touch him even if he does get out of the Goosen deal.


Nobody rejects Ward. Ward is competing with Saul Alvarez, Mayweather, Khan, Pacquiao, Marquez, Mikey Garcia, Nonito Donaire, and 80% of the top 10 p4p

Its a bit different than competing against James DeGale and...and...who again?

Mayweather couldnt sell out Van Andel in his hometown against Famoso Hernandez. Infact Ward is more popular in Oakland than Floyd ever was in Michigan as to why he moved to vegas.

So no son popularity and super stardom doesnt come on the cheap like it does in Britain. Some fighters never get appreciated until theyre gone (Pernell Whitaker)

But its what keeps our fighters hungry. We dont abide by paper champs here. If Froch was American hed have swam from Nottingham to America to rematch Ward instead of lying in the media and all that sisdy behavior


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

@shaunster

Froch vs Groves crossed over in to the mainstream lol!

Where? It was shown in the afternoon in America.


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## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> @shaunster
> 
> Froch vs Groves crossed over in to the mainstream lol!
> 
> Where? It was shown in the afternoon in America.


You're Sergio Martinez.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> You're Sergio Martinez.


And youve always been Gary Lockett

Now tell me what does crossover star on a tiny island have to do with the price of Jordans in brooklyn?


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Maybe Ward can put his ego aside and fight on some undercards against some absolute glass jawed bums to put in some highlight reel KOs and build a bigger fanbase.
Isn't it for example possible for Ward to fight on a Mayweather undercard against a glass jawed bum and get a highlight reel KO, that should make casuals interested.


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## DaveyBoyEssexUK (Jun 8, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Nobody rejects Ward. Ward is competing with Saul Alvarez, Mayweather, Khan, Pacquiao, Marquez, Mikey Garcia, Nonito Donaire, and 80% of the top 10 p4p
> 
> *Its a bit different than competing against James DeGale and...and...who again?
> 
> *Oh but Virgil was so certain Gonzalez would beat Degale, Gonzalez got outclassed despite the shit stoppage, i guess Gonzalez is now in a dark cell shining.....


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## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> And youve always been Gary Lockett


:rofl

The last thing a shot poster loses is his power . . .


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## DaveyBoyEssexUK (Jun 8, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> @shaunster
> 
> Froch vs Groves crossed over in to the mainstream lol!
> 
> Where? It was shown in the afternoon in America.


so 890,000 views in America in the afternoon isnt good??? lol!!


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

DaveyBoyEssexUK said:


> so 890,000 views in America in the afternoon isnt good??? lol!!


Klitchko vs Haye did 1.2 million on a same day replay in the afternoon

HBO numbers are pretty consistent because the only people who watch hbo boxing are boxing fans so the numbers stay between 900k-1.5 million with only slight variances

In actuality Froch vs Groves underperformed


----------



## DaveyBoyEssexUK (Jun 8, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Klitchko vs Haye did 1.2 million on a same day replay in the afternoon
> 
> HBO numbers are pretty consistent because the only people who watch hbo boxing are boxing fans so the numbers stay between 900k-1.5 million with only slight variances
> 
> In actuality Froch vs Groves underperformed


Actually its pretty good considering Groves isnt as well know as Haye and Klitchko and that it was a semi domestic fight in Britain, whats the best Ward has achieved?


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Nobody rejects Ward. Ward is competing with Saul Alvarez, Mayweather, Khan, Pacquiao, Marquez, Mikey Garcia, Nonito Donaire, and 80% of the top 10 p4p
> 
> Its a bit different than competing against James DeGale and...and...who again?
> 
> ...


Have you been to see him? Still waiting.
You could save yourself a lot of finger energy by just sticking to the matter at hand.
And your generalisations should maybe head a bit closer to home when your own countrymen are saying the only reason you have such a hardon for Ward is because he justifies your delusional persona?
I try to have a measured debate and you revert to the same old shit.Keep that "son" stuff for the ghett-ow.You ain't sonning anyone here.You're only coming across as a shot poster with nothing new to say.
Now rinse and repeat
Quote me again when you're ready to talk about attending a Ward fight.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Klitchko vs Haye did 1.2 million on a same day replay in the afternoon
> 
> HBO numbers are pretty consistent because the only people who watch hbo boxing are boxing fans so the numbers stay between 900k-1.5 million with only slight variances
> 
> *In actuality Froch vs Groves underperformed*


I'm sure that'll come as a real comfort to Andre and upset Froch so much he'll lose concentration and need to start counting them Benjis from the start again.
As I'm sure Ward will agree.It's all about the money.


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## GGGunbeatable (May 29, 2014)

bballchump11 said:


> I think Ward is waiting on whooping GGG's ass before he moves up


Ward was down against Boone. :rofl: Now imagine what GGG does to him. :lol:


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

GGGunbeatable said:


> Ward was down against Boone. :rofl: Now imagine what GGG does to him. :lol:


So Was Kovalev...


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## GGGunbeatable (May 29, 2014)

dyna said:


> So Was Kovalev...


As amateur, kind of like Fury against Cunningham, after running into the fist. It was the impact of the fist, he wasn't even hurt. Ward couldn't take this strenght, Kovalev can take it. GGG knocks Ward out till round 4 or 5.


----------



## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> :deal
> 
> Yep. He has the talent and some great wins, but he hasn't had that big crossover fight - which Pacquiao and Mayweather both had against ODLH. Unfortunately for him he doesn't have that fight available to him - he's already cleaned out his division comfortably, and there's no big 'stars'at that weight. Even if Golovkin came up to fight him or he rematches Froch, even if he went up and beat Kovalev at 175, while they're all great wins, they're not going to be that superfight he's looking for.
> 
> ...


I agree. 3 time a year is what a top guys should fight at. The Froch fight and Froch's career where he fights everyone and loses to a few guys will get him in the Hall of Fame. I do think that winning the 175 pound title is something he has to do. A 2 time champion is something special still,and then he can have a few defenses and end up better known. Roy Jones didn't have those defining fights, but eventually after fighting and having defenses if we look at his resume he has Hopkins,Hill,McCallum and Toney on his record. Ward should fight and stay active and even if he does not have huge huge fights, he will have big fights which add to his legacy. He will not find the perfect fight waiting, and then if he does, he will be so inactive he might lose. I remember my favorite guy Hearns knew Ray would fight Hagler at 160, so he challenged Andries for the 175 pound belt and then won the middleweight belt later that year. Andries and Roldan were not huge fights, but he stayed active and kept himself in the talk about fighting Hagler and Ray.


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Ward will eventually move up..


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

dyna said:


> Why would he need to gain another 15 pounds?
> Roy didn't weigh over 200 pounds when he got a hw strap.
> Armstrong was 133 when he got the welterweight title.
> Robinson was 157 pounds when he fought Maxim
> The Barbados Demon was 147 pounds when he stopped the man who would KO Jack Johnson a year later.


Roy didnt weigh over 200 pounds but he was a big guy, a natural lightheavy. Size wise Jones and Ruiz were much closer than Hagler and Spinks

Again with Armstrong and Ross, the size difference was more the weight, their height looked pretty similar Ross just a bit taller, (plus all credit to Armstrong anyway fighting bigger guys, he was amazing, it's why hes in everyones at least top 10).

Theres a gap between Maxim and Spinks at lightheavyweigh, atleast in my view, dont you think. 
Robinson the pretty much universally regarded no 1 P4P of all time vs Maxim who idk where do you rank him? I've never seen Maxim put ahead of Spinks.

And Hagler usually around 1-3 in middleweight lists against Spinks whos usually regarded like top 5? in the lightheavyweight standings.
Plus in the ring you could tell Maxim was a little thicker but they looked near even size wise.

Hey, the Demon was a damn freak, the reason he could do that was cause of his crazy power. 
Hagler had mild power at middleweight, hes not knocking out Spinks.

If Walcott didnt have freakish power and mild power do you think he would have won that fight.

This seems to have turned into me defending Hagler which I didnt set out to do.

Was saying that atleast with Hearns and Leonard there wasnt some huge size advantage that Hagler had.
And there wasnt much reason for Hagler to fight Spinks.


----------



## cachibatches (Jun 4, 2013)

Andre Ward is not afraid of anyone. But Kovalev is only a budding star and needs to define himself against lesser fighters first. Call him in a couple of years. 

By the way, much love for both guys and great fight if it happens.


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## XavierHollywood (Jun 5, 2013)

AzarZ said:


> Hes right moving up dont make sense, fighting just one name at lhw instead of fighting numerous names at SMW. Plenty of good fights at SMW GG, Degale, Chavez, GGG.


but he aint fighting anyone at SMW either.....


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

GGGunbeatable said:


> Ward was down against Boone. :rofl: Now imagine what GGG does to him. :lol:


GGG got his asswhooped by a homosexual in the Olympics. Ward would rape him


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## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> GGG got his asswhooped by a homosexual in the Olympics. Ward would rape him


But it's the amateurs, so why does it matter?


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## Arran (Jun 21, 2012)

@MichiganWarrior

you keep saying hearn is on tape saying Ward would fight in England

..however, when he was over here for....Froch v Kessler II I think......he stated 3 times in his interview after the fight that the re-match would have to be in the USA. So lets not talk bollocks.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

AzarZ said:


> Wards in a contractual dispute though and thats the reason why hes inactive.


Yeah, I appreciate that the legal disputes and the shoulder injury are largely responsible for his inactivity over the last couple of years but it has, nevertheless, affected his earning power. Ward should feel privileged if he was to actually get offered the Kovalev fight.


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

AzarZ said:


> Hopkins n Stevenson are ruled out as theyre on SHO and he cant get out of his contract. That leaves only Pascal and Kovalev. Not really much for him at lhw.


It's still more than at SMW. And the contract I believe runs out in 2016 so a Stevenson fight is possible later on or if the Stevenson loses by then fighting the guy who beat him would also be a good fight. Ward would become a 2 divisional champ (and LHW is more prestigous than SMW) and could fight Kovalev and Pascal, it's worth it. At SMW there is literally no interesting fight beside GGG and Golovkin is a MW and who knows anyway when/if Golovkin moves up.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

shaunster101 said:


> Hmmmmmmmm that post started badly and didn't get any better. Hard to know where to even start.
> 
> "Ward says" . . . The guy has done nothing but talk guff for the last 6 months. He's claiming he's being ducked and trying to get fights but he's in the middle of suing his promoter. He claimed Chavez was a great opponent, until he looked more likely to fight Froch and then he turned in to a crap cherry pick. It's goes on.
> 
> ...


Christ it's like Tyson-Spinks, he never stood a chance


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## Gesta (Jun 6, 2013)

He should stay in Oakland watching the big fighters duke it out on his coach , then in 20 years he can complain that everyone was against him and the reason he did not get the big paydays was because everyone was racist


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Gesta said:


> He should stay in Oakland watching the big fighters duke it out on his coach , then in 20 years he can complain that everyone was against him and the reason he did not get the big paydays was because everyone was racist


I wouldnt really call it racism being deathly afraid of black American fighters, just learning from experience losing to them

Ward should come out and say he'll hold back a bit, fight every fight one handed, give you white boys a chance, then maybe you find the balls to fight him


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## Arran (Jun 21, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> I wouldnt really call it racism being deathly afraid of black American fighters, just learning from experience losing to them
> 
> Ward should come out and say he'll hold back a bit, fight every fight one handed, give you white boys a chance, then maybe you find the balls to fight him


ward aint even leaving jokeland, its irrefutable


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## AzarZ (Dec 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Yeah, I appreciate that the legal disputes and the shoulder injury are largely responsible for his inactivity over the last couple of years but it has, nevertheless, affected his earning power. Ward should feel privileged if he was to actually get offered the Kovalev fight.


If he can still safely make the SMW limit while fighting Kov then he should definitely look at taking that fight.



PivotPunch said:


> It's still more than at SMW. And the contract I believe runs out in 2016 so a Stevenson fight is possible later on or if the Stevenson loses by then fighting the guy who beat him would also be a good fight. Ward would become a 2 divisional champ (and LHW is more prestigous than SMW) and could fight Kovalev and Pascal, it's worth it. At SMW there is literally no interesting fight beside GGG and Golovkin is a MW and who knows anyway when/if Golovkin moves up.


If he beats Kov hes still in the same place with hardly anyone to fight on hbo. I agree its worth it for his legacy n that theres not much challenge at SMW outside of Groves, but Ward wants the money n the high profile fights, he seems to feel that a bout with Kovalev or Pascal isnt as appealing as other options at SMW n its true. As a lot of the options at smw are ppv fights n if he's waiting on 2016 then by that time GGG may have moved up and Groves, Degale n Chavez jnr at least one of them should have fought him by then.


----------



## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

AzarZ said:


> If he can still safely make the SMW limit while fighting Kov then he should definitely look at taking that fight.
> 
> If he beats Kov hes still in the same place with hardly anyone to fight on hbo. I agree its worth it for his legacy n that theres not much challenge at SMW outside of Groves, but Ward wants the money n the high profile fights, he seems to feel that a bout with Kovalev or Pascal isnt as appealing as other options at SMW n its true. As a lot of the options at smw are ppv fights n if he's waiting on 2016 then by that time GGG may have moved up and Groves, Degale n Chavez jnr at least one of them should have fought him by then.


Groves has no chance vs Ward. And he wouldn't be in the same place he would be the #1 LHW. And how is a fight with Chavez interesting?


----------



## AzarZ (Dec 17, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> Groves has no chance vs Ward. And he wouldn't be in the same place he would be the #1 LHW. And how is a fight with Chavez interesting?


Would he? stevensons seen as the best at lhw even though he showed a lot of flaws in his last fight. Groves has an awkward style that can pose problems for ward. although groves needs to sort out his stamina issue n improve on his inside game before he can b a threat. He has a slight reach advantage over ward, hes big SMW so he shouldnt get bullied in the clinches n he has decent upper body movement that can help nullify wards jab. I don't give Chavez a shot at all but it definitely is a high profile fight for Ward.


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

AzarZ said:


> Would he? stevensons seen as the best at lhw even though he showed a lot of flaws in his last fight. Groves has an awkward style that can pose problems for ward. although groves needs to sort out his stamina issue n improve on his inside game before he can b a threat. He has a slight reach advantage over ward, hes big SMW so he shouldnt get bullied in the clinches n he has decent upper body movement that can help nullify wards jab. I don't give Chavez a shot at all but it definitely is a high profile fight for Ward.


Well yes Stevenson is the lineal champ but Ward would have the best win at LHW and would basically be regarded as the guy to beat. How is a slight reach advantage going to help Groves? Ward doesn't have long reach many guys he fights have more reach than him that isn't some new scenario for him. Groves has stamina issues Ward would break him he would get inside and bully him on the inside he would bully him. Froch is also a big SMW and Ward bullied him, Kessler was also a decent sized SMW, and Rodriguez was a huge SMW who didn't even bother to make weight and Ward bullied them on the inside and he would the exact same thing to Groves. The difference is that Groves' stamina would make it 10 times worse for him since Ward never tires and his style would make Groves even sooner exhausted he would absolutely break him, horrible matchup for Groves. Ward landed his jab against Chad Dawson, it would find it's target vs Groves. And Ward doesn't even rely on the jab at least not if he fights Groves on the inside which he'll do he will find his way to the inside vs Ward. 
Chavez is a walking sandbag filled with money, I don't believe he's a horrible fighter but I don't really want to see him fight Ward


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## jonnytightlips (Jun 14, 2012)

Ward is a fuckin clown.


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## AzarZ (Dec 17, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> Well yes Stevenson is the lineal champ but Ward would have the best win at LHW and would basically be regarded as the guy to beat. How is a slight reach advantage going to help Groves? Ward doesn't have long reach many guys he fights have more reach than him that isn't some new scenario for him. Groves has stamina issues Ward would break him he would get inside and bully him on the inside he would bully him. Froch is also a big SMW and Ward bullied him, Kessler was also a decent sized SMW, and Rodriguez was a huge SMW who didn't even bother to make weight and Ward bullied them on the inside and he would the exact same thing to Groves. The difference is that Groves' stamina would make it 10 times worse for him since Ward never tires and his style would make Groves even sooner exhausted he would absolutely break him, horrible matchup for Groves. Ward landed his jab against Chad Dawson, it would find it's target vs Groves. And Ward doesn't even rely on the jab at least not if he fights Groves on the inside which he'll do he will find his way to the inside vs Ward.
> Chavez is a walking sandbag filled with money, I don't believe he's a horrible fighter but I don't really want to see him fight Ward


Yeah a win over Dawson even though he was drained n Kovalev does make him the guy to beat. Wards in a tough spot either way if he stays or moves up, but at SMW he has more chance of banking a decent money fight.

Groves like to stay on the outside n use his reach n speed to his advantage coupled with his athleticism he'll use to potshot n get in and out against Ward. If Groves can learn to improve on those weaknesses he'll be a good fight for Ward. I understand that but for Ward, Chavez would be a dream fight it will boost his popularity in America with the casuals n with the Mexican crowd. Unfortunately for Ward, he's too much of a high risk/low reward fight for Chavez.


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

AzarZ said:


> Yeah a win over Dawson even though he was drained n Kovalev does make him the guy to beat. Wards in a tough spot either way if he stays or moves up, but at SMW he has more chance of banking a decent money fight.
> 
> Groves like to stay on the outside n use his reach n speed to his advantage coupled with his athleticism he'll use to potshot n get in and out against Ward. If Groves can learn to improve on those weaknesses he'll be a good fight for Ward. I understand that but for Ward, Chavez would be a dream fight it will boost his popularity in America with the casuals n with the Mexican crowd. Unfortunately for Ward, he's too much of a high risk/low reward fight for Chavez.


Groves isn't even that tall he's what 5'11? He isn't that super tall and he also hasn't got that good of a jab there's no chance in hell he can potshot Ward I'm not sure anyone can Ward is one of the best technical boxers in the game right now Groves isn't on his level. Kessler couldn't outbox Ward and Groves won't do it either. Ward outjabbed and outcountered Chad Dawson who wasn't only the #1 LHW but also taller than Groves and a better pure boxer Groves isn't going to potshot Ward with any success

And I just checked Groves has a 72 inch reach that's not a lot he has short reach himself Groves is neither tall nor has long reach I don't get were you got that from. He has only a reach advantage because apparently Ward has Mike Tyson esque 71inch reach probably everyone even his shorter opponents had longer reach than him or at least an equal reach he has been fighting men with more reach his entire career and Groves isn't even tall or has much reach himself


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## MaliBua (Dec 18, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> GGG got his asswhooped by a *homosexual* in the Olympics. Ward would rape him


Who was it?


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## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

GGGunbeatable said:


> Ward was down against Boone. :rofl: Now imagine what GGG does to him. :lol:


That same Boone put Kovalev down and stopped Adonis Stevenson..


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

MaliBua said:


> Who was it?


Gaydarbek Gaydarbekov :hey

Sometime on ESB told me that he's retired from boxing and is just chilling in Russia. They also mentioned how he was gay, but Idk if they where serious or just making fun of his name


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Gaydarbek Gaydarbekov :hey
> 
> Sometime on ESB told me that he's retired from boxing and is just chilling in Russia. They also mentioned how he was gay, but Idk if they where serious or just making fun of his name


That might be the gayest name ever.


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## MaliBua (Dec 18, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Gaydarbek Gaydarbekov :hey
> 
> Sometime on ESB told me that he's retired from boxing and is just chilling in Russia. They also mentioned how he was gay, but Idk if they where serious or just making fun of his name


Ok.

I thought that was just hilarious.:lol:


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> I wouldnt really call it racism being deathly afraid of black American fighters, just learning from experience losing to them
> 
> Ward should come out and say he'll hold back a bit, fight every fight one handed, *give you white boys a chance*, then maybe you find the balls to fight him


Cut the shit.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Cut the shit.


Muah


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

dyna said:


> That might be the gayest name ever.


Tyson Gay?

Wouldn't say that to Mike's face though.


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Tyson Gay?
> 
> Wouldn't say that to Mike's face though.


Gaylord Perry. There's also a Gaylord, Michigan...


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

I'm a Ward fan but that's slipping everyday he doesn't fight and every time he says something stupid like this.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Felix said:


> Gaylord Perry. There's also a Gaylord, Michigan...


This thread is very repetitive mate,because there's no serious argument that can be made for Ward.
I didn't eat crow after he beat the International Superstar in a close,competitive fight to go on to become a fan for all this shit.
Seems like Cash put a real big up his ass with the same one hitting the boy from the valleys.
I understand Ward's envy but you must remain dignified.


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

I actually like Ward, I just don't understand what's stopping him from moving up in weight. Unless it's the legal issues he's been facing are hindering his ability to make fights then I don't know. :conf


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> This thread is very repetitive mate,because there's no serious argument that can be made for Ward.
> I didn't eat crow after he beat the International Superstar in a close,competitive fight to go on to become a fan for all this shit.
> Seems like Cash put a real big up his ass with the same one hitting the boy from the valleys.
> I understand Ward's envy but you must remain dignified.


Everyone's pretty much in agreement about Ward, with one notable exception. I'd never really encountered JeffJoiner much before but he's been making a lot of sense. Very amicable posts.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Felix said:


> Everyone's pretty much in agreement about Ward, with one notable exception. I'd never really encountered JeffJoiner much before but he's been making a lot of sense. Very amicable posts.


Jeff's one of the best posters on here mate and the only one I know (not saying there's no others) who regularly pays to watch Ward.
Even if he wasn't a long time forum pal,I'd still say he's the one best qualified to comment on Andre.


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## ImElvis666 (Jul 20, 2012)

Rockinghorseshit said:


> http://www.boxingscene.com/andre-ward-if-i-beat-sergey-kovalev-then-what--78770
> 
> Ward is obviously frightened at the prospect of moving up. Where is team slick now to defend this cowardly move?


What's cowardly about not wanting to move up in a division when you're comfortable at your current weight? Ridiculous agenda-driven nonsense.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Felix said:


> Gaylord Perry. There's also a Gaylord, Michigan...


Aye, they probably have more boxing champs than the UK as well


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

ImElvis666 said:


> What's cowardly about not wanting to move up in a division when you're comfortable at your current weight? Ridiculous agenda-driven nonsense.


With great slick blackness comes great responsibility


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## ImElvis666 (Jul 20, 2012)

I have you on ignore. Quoting me is pointless.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

ImElvis666 said:


> I have you on ignore. Quoting me is pointless but I agree black fighters are judged harshly compared to others.


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## nvs (May 16, 2013)

@MichiganWarrior number one DREtard


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## Oli (Jun 6, 2013)

Tko6 said:


> Not fighting someone in case you beat them? Well that's a first. . .


:lol: The mans a fraud who doesn't want big fights it's as simple as that. May aswel retire, there is nothing out there for him. And nobody cares.


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

GGG would be more lucrative so he should go after that. Not sure if GGG wants to fight so it's understandable why Andre asks what do I get for fighting Kovalev. He's right. Not a lot. He should've fought Bute when he had the chance.


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

PetetheKing said:


> GGG would be more lucrative so he should go after that. Not sure if GGG wants to fight so it's understandable why Andre asks what do I get for fighting Kovalev. He's right. Not a lot. *He should've fought Bute when he had the chance*.


100%. At the time Froch fought Bute a lot of people saw Bute as favourite, and a lot thought he'd be a decent challenge for Ward. As Bute's stock has fallen so dramatically since Froch mauled him, it's become popular to dismiss him. Either way, if Ward had taken that fight it would've achieved several things:

i) He'd be the one to take Bute's '0'.
ii) He'd have removed any lingering doubts about why he'd not fought Bute.
iii) It would've helped raise his profile.
iv) It would've left Froch somewhat 'frozen out'-the Bute fight was 'make-or-break' for Froch in many ways. Now he's the #1 money man at 168, and one of the top in the world.
v) Unified the belts

I'm sure there are other things too. Point is, Bute was a very winnable fight for Ward, and while there's no question of his ability, his reluctance to fight people will unfortunately only leave question marks over him once he retires, a la Calzaghe.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Felix said:


> 100%. At the time Froch fought Bute a lot of people saw Bute as favourite, and a lot thought he'd be a decent challenge for Ward. As Bute's stock has fallen so dramatically since Froch mauled him, it's become popular to dismiss him. Either way, if Ward had taken that fight it would've achieved several things:
> 
> i) He'd be the one to take Bute's '0'.
> ii) He'd have removed any lingering doubts about why he'd not fought Bute.
> ...


I dont think Ward would have beaten him the same way either, plus how much of Bute pre-fight is left now? His confidence in himself is shattered. It would have been a good fight, i think as long as Ward wasnt tagged coming in in the first half the second half would have looked a bit like Ward Dawson, late stoppage or pulling away on the cards, but we'll never know


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

JamieC said:


> I dont think Ward would have beaten him the same way either, plus how much of Bute pre-fight is left now? His confidence in himself is shattered. It would have been a good fight, i think as long as Ward wasnt tagged coming in in the first half the second half would have looked a bit like Ward Dawson, late stoppage or pulling away on the cards, but we'll never know


Well, yeah...much as I take Froch's comments about him 'ending careers' with a huge pinch of salt, I think there's very definitely an argument for it in Bute's case. Possibly with Groves too, but it's too early to tell. People are very quick-too quick-to forget that Bute was favoured by many to be too much for Froch. He was supposed to sap Froch with body work, and to be too fast. Like you, I certainly don't think Ward-Bute would've played out like Froch-Bute (although admittedly how many expected the result we saw?), but we'll never know now, and there are unanswered questions as to why that fight wasn't made.


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Felix said:


> Well, yeah...much as I take Froch's comments about him 'ending careers' with a huge pinch of salt, I think there's very definitely an argument for it in Bute's case. Possibly with Groves too, but it's too early to tell. People are very quick-too quick-to forget that Bute was favoured by many to be too much for Froch. He was supposed to sap Froch with body work, and to be too fast. Like you, I certainly don't think Ward-Bute would've played out like Froch-Bute (although admittedly how many expected the result we saw?), but we'll never know now, and there are unanswered questions as to why that fight wasn't made.


Bute was many people's no.1 in the division (including Boxing Monthly) and on ESB it was 70-75/30-25 in the polls on the world and british forums in favour of Bute, he was a clear favourite. I think its fair to say Ward should have won knowing what we know now, but it's unfair to use hindsight and I was intrigued as to how Ward would deal with the uppercuts, especially to the body as if he has one visible weakness it's that he can sometimes lean forward when rushing in


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

JamieC said:


> I dont think Ward would have beaten him the same way either, plus how much of Bute pre-fight is left now? His confidence in himself is shattered. It would have been a good fight, i think as long as Ward wasnt tagged coming in in the first half the second half would have looked a bit like Ward Dawson, late stoppage or pulling away on the cards, but we'll never know


Do you remember the slaughtering I took at the old place for saying Bute would never be the same mate?
That was a genuine case of entering the ring and leaving with your opponent's heart in one hand and his balls in the other.
Ward would have done Bute but I don't think he would have shattered him like Froch did.
Not that it counts for much,but it would have changed so much if Ward had taken that fight.


----------



## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Do you remember the slaughtering I took at the old place for saying Bute would never be the same mate?
> That was a genuine case of entering the ring and leaving with your opponent's heart in one hand and his balls in the other.
> Ward would have done Bute but I don't think he would have shattered him like Froch did.
> Not that it counts for much,but it would have changed so much if Ward had taken that fight.


Presumably Ward would've been paid quite well for a Bute fight, especially seeing as at that time he was coming hot off the back of a triumphant turn in the Super 6, and his stock was as high as it's ever been. A three-way unification? Do you think fighting (and presumably beating) Bute would've left Ward more inclined to move up than he currently is?


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> Do you remember the slaughtering I took at the old place for saying Bute would never be the same mate?
> That was a genuine case of entering the ring and leaving with your opponent's heart in one hand and his balls in the other.
> Ward would have done Bute but I don't think he would have shattered him like Froch did.
> Not that it counts for much,but it would have changed so much if Ward had taken that fight.


I remember and you were right. Bute was a machine that fed off confidence, if it was close that's one thing but he just got manhandled and his work couldnt dent Froch. He enters every fight worried now i think. Ward should have moved up after the last name in Bute was crossed off for him, now hes stuck (well in his mind he is)


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Felix said:


> Presumably Ward would've been paid quite well for a Bute fight, especially seeing as at that time he was coming hot off the back of a triumphant turn in the Super 6, and his stock was as high as it's ever been. A three-way unification? Do you think fighting (and presumably beating) Bute would've left Ward more inclined to move up than he currently is?


As far as I can remember,Bute offered to go to Oakland so Ward would have been the home fighter. @JamieC makes a similar point and maybe he would have gone up.
People will ask why it's OK to say Froch is a one-weight fighter but not Ward,but Froch isn't struggling for big fights and isn't acclaimed as a possible ATG.
Froch said he could go as high as 170-172 for a big fight against a Hopkins,but Carl's legacy is safe and is pretty overwhelming given his stylistic approach,but Ward is sitting pissing away a legacy that at this point,is the definition of underwhelming when you look at what a capable fighter he is.
IMO,he HAS to move up as a fight against anyone other than GGG means nothing to his legacy.
I just can't comprehend how a fight with Chavez for Ward is acceptable.


----------



## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> As far as I can remember,Bute offered to go to Oakland so Ward would have been the home fighter.
> @JamieC makes a similar point and maybe he would have gone up.
> People will ask why it's OK to say Froch is a one-weight fighter but not Ward,but Froch isn't struggling for big fights and isn't acclaimed as a possible ATG.
> Froch said he could go as high as 170-172 for a big fight against a Hopkins,but Carl's legacy is safe and is pretty overwhelming given his stylistic approach,but Ward is sitting pissing away a legacy that at this point,is the definition of underwhelming when you look at what a capable fighter he is.
> ...


Chavez would be acceptable for Ward if he was a top undefeated contender or a belt-holder at 168. He's still a solid fighter but he's unproven at 168 and Ward should be looking to cement his legacy. Chavez doesn't do that. The only reason Froch gets a pass is because he's more beatable than Ward, the styles should create an exciting match-up, and he's made it quite clear the fight's more about him fighting in Vegas than anything else.

Like you say; Ward should be looking to prove himself, not just resting on his laurels and bitterly sniping at guys who ARE active. His remark about 'what if' he beats Kovalev are astonishing. It's literally the first time I've known a boxer to duck a guy 'in case he wins'.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Felix said:


> Chavez would be acceptable for Ward if he was a top undefeated contender or a belt-holder at 168. He's still a solid fighter but he's unproven at 168 and Ward should be looking to cement his legacy. Chavez doesn't do that. The only reason Froch gets a pass is because he's more beatable than Ward, the styles should create an exciting match-up, and he's made it quite clear the fight's more about him fighting in Vegas than anything else.
> 
> Like you say; Ward should be looking to prove himself, not just resting on his laurels and bitterly sniping at guys who ARE active. His remark about 'what if' he beats Kovalev are astonishing. It's literally the first time I've known a boxer to duck a guy 'in case he wins'.


Froch's career is also very close to an end so he can take a last cash grab.
He has nothing much to prove.

Ward is in his prime and is seen as the p4p heir to the throne so he still has things to prove.
Unless he doesn't want to become the new p4p king...


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Bute was many people's no.1 in the division (including Boxing Monthly) and on ESB it was 70-75/30-25 in the polls on the world and british forums in favour of Bute, he was a clear favourite. I think its fair to say Ward should have won knowing what we know now, but it's unfair to use hindsight and I was intrigued as to how Ward would deal with the uppercuts, especially to the body as if he has one visible weakness it's that he can sometimes lean forward when rushing in


It would've been a cagey, possibly quite ugly affair, I reckon. In one way I'm glad it never happened, because I don't think it would've been too interesting, but in some ways the division needed it.


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

dyna said:


> Froch's career is also very close to an end so he can take a last cash grab.
> He has nothing much to prove.
> 
> Ward is in his prime and is seen as the p4p heir to the throne so he still has things to prove.
> Unless he doesn't want to become the new p4p king...


Froch has been written off a few times now, so I think you're right; he's proven himself. Picked up a couple of losses, but come back from them. He's always kept himself in great shape, but he's 37 and rightfully looking to cash out.

Ward's lost all the momentum he'd accumulated coming off the back of the Super 6, and he seems to be trying to sabotage his own career. He should just bite the bullet, take smaller purses to get out of his contract if that's what's needed, and keep himself active.


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## Doyley10 (Aug 3, 2012)

shaunster101 said:


> I'm not sure he's looking for the perfect fight. He's just looking for cash. This is the guy who was going to drag pavlik out of the bar for a fight, and then bigged up Julio Cheech and Chong Chavez (despite him being schooled by a small MW), only to turn against him when it was clear he wasn't getting the fight.
> 
> He has the attitude of Mayweather but with the drawing ability of a special needs arts student.


:lol:


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