# Charles Barkley(Former NBA Superstar) said that 'NFL players are just as tough as boxers'



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

I was listening to him talk about his two favorite sports. Boxing and Football(NFL). He said both sports take a lot of mental strength and is tougher than basketball. Agreed.

But than he said that 'NFL Players are just as tough as boxers' and go on to talk about how NFL players have the same mental strength and toughness as Former Heavyweight Champions.

I'm sort of skeptical on this. I know the NFL is a brutal sport, but somehow I don't think it's still quite the same as Holyfield-Bowe. But I could be wrong. 

I feel like in the NFL, people are definitely trying to hurt you, but the ultimate goal is still to advance the football. In boxing, people's ultimate goal is to hurt you. Period. Even defensive fighters are still trying to 'hurt you' to win points on the cards.


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## Kel (May 22, 2013)

It's only his opinion, don't let it affect you.

Some of those NFL guys take some nasty knocks and end up with brain trauma issues


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

It's grueling, no doubt, but I'm going to guess that the punishment of sparring and fighting and conditioning the body to give and take blows is more consistently painful and more mentally taxing. NFL players are very resilient and go through a lot in their own sport, there are parallels, but I think boxing requires more acute suffering.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> It's grueling, no doubt, but I'm going to guess that the punishment of sparring and fighting and conditioning the body to give and take blows is more consistently painful and more mentally taxing. NFL players are very resilient and go through a lot in their own sport, there are parallels, but I think boxing requires more acute suffering.


The comparison was probably more apt a decade ago. They've gradually made the NFL a lot softer than what it previously was.


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## sim_reiss (Jun 6, 2012)

NFL players are tough but no American Football game can be as grueling as a hard 12/15-rounder. It's not even close...


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

:rofl Anyone watch Open Court? Good show.


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## dodong (Jun 6, 2013)

chuck is right, there are fighters in that are making boxing look bad right now. him and tiger actually walked out of a fight that was boring the hell out of them.


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## PowerBack (Jun 4, 2013)

I think boxing requires more toughness, especially mentally.
In football you can stick to your teammates when taking the field. In boxing you are alone with your opponent.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

In boxing the hits are more common but in the NFL the hits are harder, so it's a fair assessment.


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## Leftsmash (Oct 22, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> The comparison was probably more apt a decade ago. They've gradually made the NFL a lot softer than what it previously was.


I'm unfamiliar with the changes, what are they?


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Not even close. Boxing is years and years of gruelling training that makes most quit their first time trying it out, thousands upon thousands of rounds of sparring, and then hundreds of rounds against quality opponents. I bet most top pro boxers have taken over 10,000 punches in their lives. Nothing is close to boxing like someone on ESB posted it's your very own superbowl, where you can't rely on anybody else or get subbed off, if you aren't prepared or 100% you've got to hope to hell that neither is your opponent. NFL is a slow paced team sport where everyone is wearing more body armor than soldiers fighting overseas. Boxing truly tests a man's physical capacities and mental fortitude. NFL is no different than AFL, Rugby or IHL.


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## PowerBack (Jun 4, 2013)

Leftsmash said:


> I'm unfamiliar with the changes, what are they?


The NFL are trying to eliminate helmet-to-helmet contact as much as possible.


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## ChicoTheBoy (Jun 5, 2013)

To be fair, NFL playes do this week after week during the season. 16 weeks at the least, with only a week in between games. I would say its close even though I know this is a boxing forum and most will disagree.


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## DirtyDan (May 25, 2013)

I've boxed and played football in high-school.

Boxing is more physically grueling, no doubt. Only a select few people can be able to compete in it.

I'll say this though, the hardest tackle I've taken was waaay more painful than the hardest punch.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Not even close. Boxing is years and years of gruelling training that makes most quit their first time trying it out, thousands upon thousands of rounds of sparring, and then hundreds of rounds against quality opponents. I bet most top pro boxers have taken over 10,000 punches in their lives. Nothing is close to boxing like someone on ESB posted it's your very own superbowl, where you can't rely on anybody else or get subbed off, if you aren't prepared or 100% you've got to hope to hell that neither is your opponent. NFL is a slow paced team sport where everyone is wearing more body armor than soldiers fighting overseas. Boxing truly tests a man's physical capacities and mental fortitude. NFL is no different than AFL, Rugby or IHL.


:lol: No idea. You know they've tested this stuff, a hit in the NFL is far more severe than any hit in Rugby or other contact sports. NFL players are beastly athletes who don't have to get fatigued due to the nature of the game, so they are always hitting at 100%. Without that protective gear players would be dying all over the place you idiot.

And stop putting boxing on a pedestal so much, it's just a sport. Are you somebody who quit the first time you tried it? You sound like it. I competed, and like others who have competed I can tell you that it's not that brutal once you're used to it. Punches don't hurt (apart from liver punches) and it's only really physically gruelling when you're not in shape.


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## Stephen H\sson (Dec 25, 2013)

According to some posts NFL players are tougher than AFL and rugby players how can this be if they were so much body padding. Another tough/hard sopt is GAA and the players are amateur to


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Stephen H\sson said:


> According to some posts NFL players are tougher than AFL and rugby players how can this be if they were so much body padding. Another tough/hard sopt is GAA and the players are amateur to


Because they are so much more powerful/larger than AFL/Rugby players, and they don't do any aerobic work (so they are always hitting at 100%). They've measured the forces of contact of gridiron compared to rugby and the hit in gridiron is far more forceful despite the padding. Without that padding players would be getting hit once and put in hospital. I don't think people are comprehending how large and powerful NFL players are, they are pure anaerobic athletes training for speed and power. AFL, rugby, boxing etc. all have a large endurance component so that exponentially decreases the amount of force involved in contact.


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## PowerBack (Jun 4, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Because they are so much more powerful/larger than AFL/Rugby players, and they don't do any aerobic work (so they are always hitting at 100%). They've measured the forces of contact of gridiron compared to rugby and the hit in gridiron is far more forceful despite the padding. Without that padding players would be getting hit once and put in hospital. I don't think people are comprehending how large and powerful NFL players are, they are pure anaerobic athletes training for speed and power. AFL, rugby, boxing etc. all have a large endurance component so that exponentially decreases the amount of force involved in contact.


From what I know, you can't hit guys who isn't in possession of the ball in rugby, and you can't pass the ball forward. That makes the game focus more on lateral movement and sideline-to-sideline play. Where in football teams are more focus on driving the ball straight north, because you're allowed to pass the ball and remove all obstacles that are in front of you, so you get more head on head collisions.


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Because they are so much more powerful/larger than AFL/Rugby players, and they don't do any aerobic work (so they are always hitting at 100%). They've measured the forces of contact of gridiron compared to rugby and the hit in gridiron is far more forceful despite the padding. Without that padding players would be getting hit once and put in hospital. I don't think people are comprehending how large and powerful NFL players are, they are pure anaerobic athletes training for speed and power. AFL, rugby, boxing etc. all have a large endurance component so that exponentially decreases the amount of force involved in contact.


Dudes in NFL have terrible tackling technique, they just throw themselves at each other.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MaliBua (Dec 18, 2013)

Yes.

Our real Heavyweight Champion is playing Ball.


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## PowerBack (Jun 4, 2013)

MaliBua said:


> Yes.
> 
> Our real Heavyweight Champion is playing Ball.


He sure is.


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## Rooster (Jul 14, 2013)

Getting tackled by a 230lb guy running full speed is no joke, but I don't think there's anything in football mentally that compares to taking punishing shots to the head and body for 12 rounds and staying focused. Or having a Golovkin/Kovalev-like puncher stalking you constantly, applying heavy pressure with the threat that he can knock you cold if you ease up. Then again I don't have much experience with American football.


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Some people here are saying 'I don't think people realize how hard NFL Players hit' etc.


I don't think people realize just how hard Elite Level Heavyweights hit.
First off Barkley is talking about mental toughness. I concede that maybe NFL players suffer the same amount of pain, but no way are they mentally equal to a Evander Holyfield who went 24 rounds against a 240 Pound Lennox Lewis.

We are comparing sports where one objective is to advance the ball and the other objective is to hurt someone as brilliantly as possible in order to secure a KO or Decision.

When Riddick Bowe walked into the ring that night against Evander, the objective was clear: Hurt Evander, beat him up, score big punches,see if I can hurt him enough to make sure he goes down and don't get up.

I don't give a fuck how 'tough' the NFL players are.. 
When Tom Brady walks out of that tunnel, he's not thinking of 'hurting people'.. He's thinking of how to 'advance the ball to ensure 7 points'.


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> :lol: No idea. You know they've tested this stuff, a hit in the NFL is far more severe than any hit in Rugby or other contact sports. NFL players are beastly athletes who don't have to get fatigued due to the nature of the game, so they are always hitting at 100%.* Without that protective gear players would be dying all over the place you idiot.
> *
> And stop putting boxing on a pedestal so much, it's just a sport. Are you somebody who quit the first time you tried it? You sound like it. I competed, and like others who have competed I can tell you that it's not that brutal once you're used to it. Punches don't hurt (apart from liver punches) and it's only really physically gruelling when you're not in shape.


If Prime Lennox Lewis hit one of your NFL Gods full force with just one punch, no gloves. He will die.
Die.
My Uncle worked HOS for Lewis, he said Lewis punched through walls.

Also [email protected] your false assessments of how 'hard' NFL players tackle without body gear.

What does that have to do with 'mental strength'? Which was the whole point of Barkley's little speech.

Barkley said on ESPN that NFL Players are as MENTALLY tough as Boxers. That have fuck all to do with how hard they tackle without gear.

A group of Germanic Knights might 'hit harder' than a group of cavemen who survived alongside Sabers and Mammoths, but that have fuck all to do with mental strength.


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## KLion22 (Jun 4, 2013)

Ask NFL players what is harder and most would say boxing. It's one thing to play football but another to get into combat that can end up killing you.


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## Johnstown (Jun 4, 2013)

the football players I know (many in my family) it just isn't the same mental thing to go into a game...for one...the fact that you have a team with you makes it mentally easier, also in spite of how physical it is..it isn't "fighting" something about having to fight a guy that is mentally tougher. But in spite of that many football players seem to get as much brain damage as boxers


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## Johnstown (Jun 4, 2013)

KLion22 said:


> Ask NFL players what is harder and most would say boxing. It's one thing to play football but another to get into combat that can end up killing you.


although football players have died on the field...and they get brain damage that is in some cases as bad or worse than what boxers get.


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

Conditioning Wise, Boxing Tops Football. Completely.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Charles makes a lot of uninformed statements. This is just another.


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

Put it this way, up to 12 lots of 3 minutes of action with a minute break in between compared with numerous stoppages in gridiron, and the possibility of being subbed, plus the mental side of things where you're all alone in the ring for me makes boxing a 'tougher' sport. No way I'm putting the NFL lads down though, and I'm biased with me not following the NFL


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

Stick to basketball you ringless legend


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

FelixTrinidad said:


> If Prime Lennox Lewis hit one of your NFL Gods full force with just one punch, no gloves. He will die.
> Die.
> My Uncle worked HOS for Lewis, he said Lewis punched through walls.
> 
> ...


Shut up ****** what would you and your gay ass uncle know about sports other than competitive cock sucking you ****


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Shut up ****** what would you and your gay ass uncle know about sports other than competitive cock sucking you ****


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## KWilson71 (Jun 8, 2013)

Boxing is the toughest sport but for anyone to just blow it off like its not even close have no idea how tough football is. Maybe not for the quarterback,but for the offensive and defensive lineman crashing into each other for 60 minutes should not be underestimated. 

NFL was just sued for 765 million dollars because so many retired players have concussion issues and just problems living life like a normal person. A handful of former NFL players have committed suicide because they couldnt get the help they need. The shit is no joke


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Boxing is harder. Pro football isnt a joke. Average career 3 years ending with a broken body


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## KLion22 (Jun 4, 2013)

Barkley DKSAB.


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## DaCrooked (Jun 6, 2013)

I'd lean towards boxing, but the NFL is no joke. So many former players are brain damaged, with chronic physical issues, and can barely get out of bed and walk on their own. The game destroys your body, its takes tremendous nuts to play.


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

Barkley is right. the linemen hitting each other alone is measured as having the force of a car accident. Let alone a RB getting hit by a LB, or QB getting smashed by a LB or DL. Or WR getting blown up by a safety or CB waiting in zone.

Football is a far more damaging sport, as evidenced by the lack of longevity in the sport, and similar if not worse brain damage that former players have compared even to boxing.

People forget like excellent boxers, football players are playing usually since they are 6.


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## One to watch (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> :lol: No idea. You know they've tested this stuff, a hit in the NFL is far more severe than any hit in Rugby or other contact sports. NFL players are beastly athletes who don't have to get fatigued due to the nature of the game, so they are always hitting at 100%. Without that protective gear players would be dying all over the place you idiot.
> 
> And stop putting boxing on a pedestal so much, it's just a sport. Are you somebody who quit the first time you tried it? You sound like it. I competed, and like others who have competed I can tell you that it's not that brutal once you're used to it. Punches don't hurt (apart from liver punches) and it's only really physically gruelling when you're not in shape.


I disagree that punches don't hurt.thats crazy talk,I spar a few times a week and heavy sparring involves some punishing blows,to stomach and head.


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## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

I don't really see any controversy to be honest. 

These NFL guys take monster hits, full-bodied hits, and despite the pads and shit, it's a brutal sport. Most of the hits you don't even see coming. I think where boxing is tougher is that it's an individual sport, and if you're having a bad night, you're going to get hurt. In team sports, you can personally have a bad game but still win because it's a team effort.
An NFL player can feed off the energy of the team, which can boost his own performance but a boxer really can only rely on himself. 

I do feel that boxing overall is maybe a little tougher physically, and the head trauma is worse in boxing. On the other hand, you don't have to worry about broken necks, broken legs, fucked up knees etc. The NFL players also cram a lot of games into a relatively short period each season, so it's a lot of punishment to get through in a short space of time.


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## EvianMcGirt (Jun 9, 2013)

I can never read anything about Charles Barkley without thinking of this clip. :lol:


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

@Leftsmash Pampered ass QB's and WR's for the most part as far as where, when and how you can tackle/hit them. Being an HB is still bloodsport though.
@tezel8764 Sometimes :lol: :yep













MichiganWarrior said:


> Shut up ****** what would you and your gay ass uncle know about sports other than competitive cock sucking you ****





Sweethome_Bama said:


> Barkley is right. the linemen hitting each other alone is measured as having the force of a car accident. Let alone a RB getting hit by a LB, or QB getting smashed by a LB or DL. Or WR getting blown up by a safety or CB waiting in zone.
> 
> Football is a far more damaging sport, as evidenced by the lack of longevity in the sport, and similar if not worse brain damage that former players have compared even to boxing.
> 
> People forget like excellent boxers, football players are playing usually since they are 6.


Okay, but...






^ GOAT


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> @*Leftsmash* Pampered ass QB's and WR's for the most part as far as where, when and how you can tackle/hit them. Being an HB is still bloodsport though.
> 
> @*tezel8764* Sometimes :lol: :yep
> 
> ...


Barry is the man, but he wsn't no Earl Campbell.


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

@Hands of Iron I don't hate NFL, just it's hard for me to get into it cause I play Rugby. I have respect for both sports, imo the NFL players go for more speed and explosiveness over a short distance which packs a harder punch/impact. I can get into that Barry Sanders vid, it's always good to see a dude running the whole length of the field and stepping the whole opposition to score a try... er.. touchdown. :yep :conf

I heard a story from the states of one Samoan former NFL committing suicide years after his career finished. Really sad stuff. :-(


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> Barry is the man, but he wsn't no Earl Campbell.


No qualms. Earl is my #2 favorite HB and a completely different sort of badass. :lol: Arguably the greatest at his peak IMO.

I'm partial to Barry 'cause he's such a relative midget out there (not dissimilar to Mike Tyson as a HW) and was insanely skilled.


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## Leftsmash (Oct 22, 2012)

tezel8764 said:


> @Hands of Iron I don't hate NFL, just it's hard for me to get into it cause I play Rugby. I have respect for both sports, imo the NFL players go for more speed and explosiveness over a short distance which packs a harder punch/impact. I can get into that Barry Sanders vid, it's always good to see a dude running the whole length of the field and stepping the whole opposition to score a try... er.. touchdown. :yep :conf
> 
> I heard a story from the states of one Samoan former NFL committing suicide years after his career finished. Really sad stuff. :-(


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Seau

Later studies by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) concluded that Seau suffered from chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), a type of chronic brain damage that had also been found in other deceased former NFL players


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

tezel8764 said:


> Dudes in NFL have terrible tackling technique, they just throw themselves at each other.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Tackling is bringing someone to ground, in the NFL they use their large bodies at full speed to hit each other into the ground.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

FelixTrinidad said:


> Some people here are saying 'I don't think people realize how hard NFL Players hit' etc.
> 
> I don't think people realize just how hard Elite Level Heavyweights hit.
> First off Barkley is talking about mental toughness. I concede that maybe NFL players suffer the same amount of pain, but no way are they mentally equal to a Evander Holyfield who went 24 rounds against a 240 Pound Lennox Lewis.
> ...


You don't think there are players in the NFL who go out wanting to hurt their opponents? atsch



FelixTrinidad said:


> If Prime Lennox Lewis hit one of your NFL Gods full force with just one punch, no gloves. He will die.
> Die.
> My Uncle worked HOS for Lewis, he said Lewis punched through walls.
> 
> ...


Going out onto the field to repeatedly get hit by a car, while focusing on tactics/a play takes mental strength.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

FloydPatterson said:


> Conditioning Wise, Boxing Tops Football. Completely.


Strength and power wise, Football tops Boxing. Completely.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

One to watch said:


> I disagree that punches don't hurt.thats crazy talk,I spar a few times a week and heavy sparring involves some punishing blows,to stomach and head.


Maybe it's different for different people, but after a little while I found that I didn't notice punches other than body shots.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

tezel8764 said:


> @Hands of Iron I don't hate NFL, just it's hard for me to get into it cause I play Rugby. I have respect for both sports, imo the NFL players go for more speed and explosiveness over a short distance which packs a harder punch/impact. I can get into that Barry Sanders vid, it's always good to see a dude running the whole length of the field and stepping the whole opposition to score a try... er.. touchdown. :yep :conf
> 
> I heard a story from the states of one Samoan former NFL committing suicide years after his career finished. Really sad stuff. :-(


There are many cases like that. Leftsmash just posted one I think of Junior Seau. Also Dave Duerson (who played for arguably the best defense of all-time), Mike Webster (one of greatest Centers) had serious brain trauma.


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Strength and power wise, Football tops Boxing. Completely.


of course, your talking about a majority of boxers who weigh less than 180 lbs, which is very small for football standards. The more you weight the more power you can exert. Thats why fat ass linemen have a job.


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Maybe it's different for different people, but after a little while I found that I didn't notice punches other than body shots.


Yep, body shots are the only ones that get your attention, I don't really find myself getting hit in the head much


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> :lol: No idea. You know they've tested this stuff, a hit in the NFL is far more severe than any hit in Rugby or other contact sports. NFL players are beastly athletes who don't have to get fatigued due to the nature of the game, so they are always hitting at 100%. Without that protective gear players would be dying all over the place you idiot.
> 
> And stop putting boxing on a pedestal so much, it's just a sport. Are you somebody who quit the first time you tried it? You sound like it. I competed, and like others who have competed I can tell you that it's not that brutal once you're used to it. Punches don't hurt (apart from liver punches) and it's only really physically gruelling when you're not in shape.


They also tested the punch of GSP and it was considerably harder than the UFC Heavyweight Champ. Which means exactly nothing. Much like your "You know they've tested this stuff".

They don't get fatigued because most are on the field for minutes at a time and the pace is extremely stop-start. I've watched plenty of games and have tried it out myself and the type of hits that cause damage are few and far between. I've also played Rugby and it was much harder as it was much more constant and the hits were much more full on.

Yeah it's just a sport and the hardest sport around. No I did not quit the first time I tried it I'm still at it but have seen many come in and out just the once. If you've competed why don't you post some fights? But I know you won't cos all you do is talk shit. Just like when I said Terry Norris could bench 375 at 154lbs which you said isn't that strong. Post a video of you doing more. Given your a professional strength coach 375 should be nothing. Again I know you won't post shit.

Only physically gruelling when your not in shape? Ever sparred more than 3 rounds in a row? How about 6? or 8? or 12? Tell me it isn't physically grueling.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> They also tested the punch of GSP and it was considerably harder than the UFC Heavyweight Champ. Which means exactly nothing. Much like your "You know they've tested this stuff".
> 
> They don't get fatigued because most are on the field for minutes at a time and the pace is extremely stop-start. I've watched plenty of games and have tried it out myself and the type of hits that cause damage are few and far between. I've also played Rugby and it was much harder as it was much more constant and the hits were much more full on.
> 
> ...


You're in shape for what you're in shape for, no more no less. It's the SAID principle. If you get tired going 12 then you're simply not in shape for 12. I train rugby players, they are shit athletically compared to the guys in the NFL. When it comes to a physical contest there really isn't a comparison. And I boxed competitively, it's not as tough as you're trying to make out. Maybe when you've done it for a bit longer then maybe you'll understand. Or maybe you're just soft and you're trying to make excuses for why you find it so tough? Boxing isn't for everyone.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> You're in shape for what you're in shape for, no more no less. It's the SAID principle. If you get tired going 12 then you're simply not in shape for 12. I train rugby players, they are shit athletically compared to the guys in the NFL. When it comes to a physical contest there really isn't a comparison. And I boxed competitively, it's not as tough as you're trying to make out. Maybe when you've done it for a bit longer then maybe you'll understand. Or maybe you're just soft and you're trying to make excuses for why you find it so tough? Boxing isn't for everyone.


I knew you wouldn't post shit. Cos all you can do is talk. I've done it for 3 years and there is no other sport that I've tried that was as hard, particularly the initial phases.

I know rugby players are shit compared to most NFL players but the priorities are much different. Rugby players don't put so much emphasis on how much they weigh, how many times they can bench 220 or how wide their asses are. Also steroids is much more prevalent in the NFL. Every player on the Rugby field has enough physical strength and stamina to run and tackle for a 40 minute half (x2) that is pretty constant in it's activity level. Most NFL players would gas badly if they had to do the same thing. You know there is a reason that despite being similar to NFL the American Rugby team is a joke.


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

@Hands of Iron

The speed, the timing, the ferocity, the setting up his combinations, feints, lateral movement.

Nobody like him:
































Chisora? Scott? Jennings? :lol: Fuck outta here.

Heavyweights these days (Bar K2) are fucking lazy cunts. :-(


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

tezel8764 said:


> @*Hands of Iron*
> 
> The speed, the timing, the ferocity, the setting up his combinations, feints, lateral movement.
> 
> ...


Nice GIFs :yep

Holmes really didn't want to risk his shot at 49-0 by fighting Pinklon Thomas (top left). He thought he was going to EZ work himself into it by 'picking' Michael Spinks, who in turn solidified his ATG P4P standing. Thomas would lose a decision against Trevor Berbick (who Tyson destroyed in two that same year). I think the Bonecrusher Smith unification fight when he was fresh off winning the WBA strap against Witherspoon was probably the only poor fight from '86 to '91 -- Smith lost every round, but was put off from doing anything but holding for the most part. Still though, Heavyweights should Not be able to move like this:






The height difference is pretty amusing.


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Tyson was a FUCKING Beast. This is why all four versions of him made my top 100 ATG List.

He would have dominated Wlad. People talking about how Tucker went 12. They forget Prime Tucker also lost all 12 rounds.
Wlad might 'survive' 12, but he'll lose 1-11.

If you try to 'win', you will get KTFO.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

FelixTrinidad said:


> Tyson was a FUCKING Beast. This is why all four versions of him made my top 100 ATG List.
> 
> He would have dominated Wlad. People talking about how Tucker went 12. They forget Prime Tucker also lost all 12 rounds.
> Wlad might 'survive' 12, but he'll lose 1-11.
> ...


Yeah, Wlad can clinch and bear hug all he wants really, he isn't going to win many rounds if he can't land any punches and if all is fair, would probably see a point deduction or two for his excessive illegal holding. Tyson's far too active and quick on his feet, he would slip his jab to get in range with pretty relative ease IMO. Wladimir would'nt lay on anywhere near the punishment necessary to put Tyson out, he doesn't have enough variation to his game.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> I knew you wouldn't post shit. Cos all you can do is talk. I've done it for 3 years and there is no other sport that I've tried that was as hard, particularly the initial phases.
> 
> I know rugby players are shit compared to most NFL players but the priorities are much different. Rugby players don't put so much emphasis on how much they weigh, how many times they can bench 220 or how wide their asses are. Also steroids is much more prevalent in the NFL. Every player on the Rugby field has enough physical strength and stamina to run and tackle for a 40 minute half (x2) that is pretty constant in it's activity level. Most NFL players would gas badly if they had to do the same thing. You know there is a reason that despite being similar to NFL the American Rugby team is a joke.


Endurance is the inverse of strength/power. It's just how the human body is. Sure a rugby player can run a bit longer but they're not as strong or powerful. They'd get hurt quickly against an NFL player. You're comparing apples to oranges, it's pointless and it just further demonstrates your stupidity.


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Man why you gotta ruin a good thread from a great poster by spurting your bullshit Dealt_With?


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Yeah, Wlad can clinch and bear hug all he wants really, he isn't going to win many rounds if he can't land any punches and if all is fair, would probably see a point deduction or two for his excessive illegal holding. Tyson's far too active and quick on his feet, he would slip his jab to get in range with pretty relative ease IMO. Wladimir would'nt lay on anywhere near the punishment necessary to put Tyson out, he doesn't have enough variation to his game.


 That's why H2H Tyson is so scary. The ONLY thing I question will be if he have the mental strength to go all out in a back and forth war against another elite fighter.

But I am confident in this:

No preparation. If you just randomly put Prime Tyson and Prime Holyfield,Lewis, against each other. Prime Tyson KTFO both of them. Especially Lewis.

Now in an ACTUALLY training camp scenario.. it's a different story. But I just don't think ANY ATG HW would be ready for what Prime Tyson brings without a very long training camp.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

FelixTrinidad said:


> That's why H2H Tyson is so scary. The ONLY thing I question will be if he have the mental strength to go all out in a back and forth war against another elite fighter.
> 
> But I am confident in this:
> 
> ...


Think it says anything that Tyson was considered #1 "P4P"? Like officially and shit, when they actually started published rankings for it. Guys like Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Michael Nunn, Evander Holyfield (off his CW run), Azumah Nelson, et al were running around at that time. You know Heavyweights aren't getting that type of love. Tyson was considered the 'most skilled' fighter in boxing. :lol: :yep I think he'd do it today as well... Prime? Absolutely on Mayweather/Ward/Rigondeaux level, are you kidding?


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Think it says anything that Tyson was considered #1 "P4P"? Like officially and shit, when they actually started published rankings for it. Guys like Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Michael Nunn, Evander Holyfield (off his CW run), Azumah Nelson, et al were running around at that time. You know Heavyweights aren't getting that type of love. Tyson was considered the 'most skilled' fighter in boxing. :lol: :yep I think he'd do it today as well... Prime? Absolutely on Mayweather/Ward/Rigondeaux level, are you kidding?


Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jr would have had a trilogy if Prime Mike Tyson was around.

All three fights would have taken place on his undercard.


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## Robney (Jun 15, 2012)

They use 20lbs of protective gear for what's basically a kind of rugby. Not really comparable with boxing if you ask me.


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Robney said:


> They use 20lbs of protective gear for what's basically a kind of rugby. Not really comparable with boxing if you ask me.


Ya great point. NFL is more on par with the Premier League in my honest opinion.

If you really break it down the NFL is just a bunch of fat guys wearing armor and tackling each other in an effort to get a pig's anus across the field.


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## 2377 (Jun 6, 2013)

Boxing requires more consistent toughness. 

There is no teammate, no pads, no helmet, no injury timeout, no halftime, no 45 second play clock or 2nd string to give you a breather. Football plays about 8 seconds at a time, almost a minute between plays. There are unnecessary roughness penalties.

I can go on and on here.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Endurance is the inverse of strength/power. It's just how the human body is. Sure a rugby player can run a bit longer but they're not as strong or powerful. They'd get hurt quickly against an NFL player. You're comparing apples to oranges, it's pointless and it just further demonstrates your stupidity.


Knew you'd avoid the questions about posting your videos.

Also if comparing rugby to the NFL is apples and oranges and demonstrates my stupidity why were you the one who tried to counter the point? Again and again. You're very predictable Dealt with you regurgitate the same lines over and over and will blatantly dodge certain things and result to ad hominens because you have nothing really to say. I said I've done both NFL and Rugby and said Rugby was harder. You said that you train rugby players and they ain't shit compared to NFL players (Which professional team do you do strength and conditioning for btw?) but then go on to say they are completely different and I'm an idiot for not realizing yet you yourself compared them. It's called being a hypocrite.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Knew you'd avoid the questions about posting your videos.
> 
> Also if comparing rugby to the NFL is apples and oranges and demonstrates my stupidity why were you the one who tried to counter the point? Again and again. You're very predictable Dealt with you regurgitate the same lines over and over and will blatantly dodge certain things and result to ad hominens because you have nothing really to say. I said I've done both NFL and Rugby and said Rugby was harder. You said that you train rugby players and they ain't shit compared to NFL players (Which professional team do you do strength and conditioning for btw?) but then go on to say they are completely different and I'm an idiot for not realizing yet you yourself compared them. It's called being a hypocrite.


No, you made the comparison and then I told you why your comparison was wrong. And why the fuck would I post a video or tell you what team I work for? :lol: I may as well just tell you my name and address.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Robney said:


> They use 20lbs of protective gear for what's basically a kind of rugby. Not really comparable with boxing if you ask me.


yeah those guys are just so protected


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## DaCrooked (Jun 6, 2013)

Robney said:


> They use 20lbs of protective gear for what's basically a kind of rugby. Not really comparable with boxing if you ask me.


This statement is about as ignorant as saying boxers wear pillows on their fist so its really not that tough.


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## Blanco (Aug 29, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah those guys are just so protected


Or you could have showed him this classic one,even though its college football :yep


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

DaCrooked said:


> This statement is about as ignorant as saying boxers wear pillows on their fist so its really not that tough.


I've actually heard people say that more than once


Blanco said:


> Or you could have showed him this classic one,even though its college football :yep


:yep even better


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## PowerBack (Jun 4, 2013)

FelixTrinidad said:


> Some people here are saying 'I don't think people realize how hard NFL Players hit' etc.
> 
> I don't think people realize just how hard Elite Level Heavyweights hit.
> First off Barkley is talking about mental toughness. I concede that maybe NFL players suffer the same amount of pain, but no way are they mentally equal to a Evander Holyfield who went 24 rounds against a 240 Pound Lennox Lewis.
> ...


Tom Brady is a quarterback??? :gsg


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## Robney (Jun 15, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah those guys are just so protected


Now imagine that without the helmet, shoulder- and kneepads and you have a good old rugby match.
If American Football is that tough, then how "extreme" is rugby?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Robney said:


> Now imagine that without the helmet, shoulder- and kneepads and you have a good old rugby match.
> If American Football is that tough, then how "extreme" is rugby?


you mean imagine that with smaller and slower athletes?


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## Undefeated (Nov 23, 2013)

Charles Barkley DKSAB, soccer players(Calzaghe, Martinez, Hatton) make better boxers than US football players(Mitchell) in boxing you dont get a break every 5 seconds like in US football plus people talk like boxings a tough man contest its not you need skill ,stamina and mental strength if it was a tough man contest guys like Chad Dawson, Victor Ortiz and Wlad Klitschko wouldnt be anywhere near as succesfull as they have been.


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

Blanco said:


> Or you could have showed him this classic one,even though its college football :yep


:lol: Pads


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Undefeated said:


> Charles Barkley DKSAB, soccer players(Calzaghe, Martinez, Hatton) make better boxers than US football players(Mitchell) in boxing you dont get a break every 5 seconds like in US football plus people talk like boxings a tough man contest its not you need skill ,stamina and mental strength if it was a tough man contest guys like Chad Dawson, Victor Ortiz and Wlad Klitschko wouldnt be anywhere near as succesfull as they have been.


Um Andre Ward was a football player, so was Tim Bradley and Devon Alexander. In fact im pretty sure most US boxers played some level of football not that in any way they correspond with eachother.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

tezel8764 said:


> :lol: Pads












Mcgahee was on the ground for 5 minutes after this motionless except for his hands twitching


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Boxing is tough, but I never played American Football so don´t know how violent it can be.....some of these gifs make it look rough and hard, but on the other hand they are using helmuts and other stuff, so :think, I don´t know.....I would say that maybe is not all that tough when you have all this armour but maybe it is....


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah those guys are just so protected


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

They definitely take punishment, but the mental part is miles apart. When I was playing football, you had a sense of security because you had others to back you up. In boxing you're all on your own, when you go to a show in your opponents home town; nothing is more terrifying than knowing people want to see you get hurt


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

paloalto00 said:


> They definitely take punishment, but the mental part is miles apart. When I was playing football, you had a sense of security because you had others to back you up. In boxing you're all on your own, when you go to a show in your opponents home town; nothing is more terrifying than knowing people want to see you get her


This is the biggest dif to me

If i missed an assignment in football usually someone was there to cover my ass. You make a mistake in boxing thats your ass


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

tezel8764 said:


> :lol: Pads


That's not an impressive hit because he's not in an athletic position, he's standing straight up. A strong breeze could've knocked him down in that position.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Mcgahee was on the ground for 5 minutes after this motionless except for his hands twitching


That's a far more powerful hit than the rugby one, dude was getting low in an athletic position and he still got blasted


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## Rockinghorseshit (Oct 4, 2013)

Rugby League would be a better comparison for hits but it's still not the same.

Why don't those cunts just lose the helmet?


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Rockinghorseshit said:


> Rugby League would be a better comparison for hits but it's still not the same.
> 
> Why don't those cunts just lose the helmet?


Because players would be dying on the field. No exaggeration. As it is they still end up with similar neurological problems as professional boxers who have taken too many beatings.


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## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Because players would be dying on the field. No exaggeration. As it is they still end up with similar neurological problems as professional boxers who have taken too many beatings.


Christ, it'd be brutal. Imagine somebody without a helmet taking a massive hit from Ray Lewis with both running full speed at each other. The impact of their back and head hitting the ground...

Head to head collisions would be way more devastating than they already are with helmets. You're 100% on about people dying.


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## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

ChicoTheBoy said:


> To be fair, NFL playes do this week after week during the season. 16 weeks at the least, with only a week in between games. I would say its close even though I know this is a boxing forum and most will disagree.


what do boxers do when they spar? They dont take punches only on fight night


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## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

tezel8764 said:


> :lol: Pads


Those guys are bitch made and soft.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JMP said:


> Christ, it'd be brutal. Imagine somebody without a helmet taking a massive hit from Ray Lewis with both running full speed at each other. The impact of their back and head hitting the ground...
> 
> Head to head collisions would be way more devastating than they already are with helmets. You're 100% on about people dying.


Who was the most dominant athlete of the Year 2000 in popular (American) sport?

Pedro Martinez, Shaquille O'Neal, Tiger Woods or Ray Lewis.

You're talking about the very arguable peak GOAT of each profession, at least at their particular positions for the MLB/NBA/NFL guys. While it's true Ray Ray tended to get just a bit overrated in his final years based on what he used to be, there's absolutely nothing about him from '97 to '04 that suggests anything but being an obvious candidate for the greatest linebacker (particular middle/inside) in history. I saw that motherfucker live too.


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

All Scientific research shows that if Lennox Lewis and Ray Lewis swapped places.. Ray Lewis would not have been a top 10 HW ATG, but Lennox would have been GOAT WR.

It's science. Lennox was the #1 Prospect in North America and everyone wanted him to play American Football, but he said that he will rather box.

Now I'M NOT SAYING RAY LEWIS would have FAILED in boxing, I'm just saying he would not have been a top 10 ATG HW. I think he would have been a Hall of Fame Heavyweight.

I think Ray Lewis would have been as good as Ray Mercer.


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

JMP said:


> Christ, it'd be brutal. Imagine somebody without a helmet taking a massive hit from Ray Lewis with both running full speed at each other. The impact of their back and head hitting the ground...
> 
> Head to head collisions would be way more devastating than they already are with helmets. You're 100% on about people dying.


HI JMP. You are a great poster.

But anyways yo Dealt_With is just blowing smoke out his ass. nobody's dying for shit dude.

I played Football and I don't even use helmets and I'm still alive and well.

The fact of the matter is this:

Let me ask you this ok?

Will you rather play a 5 minute NFL Game against Ray Lewis's team

or

Fight a 3 minute round against Prime Mike Tyson.

The end.


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Who was the most dominant athlete of the Year 2000 in popular (American) sport?
> 
> Pedro Martinez, Shaquille O'Neal, Tiger Woods or Ray Lewis.
> 
> You're talking about the very arguable peak GOAT of each profession, at least at their particular positions for the MLB/NBA/NFL guys. While it's true Ray Ray tended to get just a bit overrated in his final years based on what he used to be, there's absolutely nothing about him from '97 to '04 that suggests anything but being an obvious candidate for the greatest linebacker (particular middle/inside) in history. I saw that motherfucker live too.


Ray Lewis was a monster. But Dealt_with straight up moron.

Think about it this way.

I know you not a big dude but you are probably strong enough. So they buckle your ass up ok?

You have two choices.

1- Go through '5 plays' as part of a Pro NFL Team vs another PRO NFL Team.
You are a RB. Just 5 plays. You got a entire team with you though. Everybody's got everybody's back.

2- Go 5 minutes against Prime Riddick Bowe. 
If you get knocked out, they will prop you back up and keep doing this to you until the 5 minutes are up.

The point is.. Boxing is MENTALLY tougher than NFL.

NFL is the 2nd toughest sport mentally behind Boxing.. but it's a distant second imo.

Boxing's mental strength is just surreal.


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## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Who was the most dominant athlete of the Year 2000 in popular (American) sport?
> 
> Pedro Martinez, Shaquille O'Neal, Tiger Woods or Ray Lewis.
> 
> You're talking about the very arguable peak GOAT of each profession, at least at their particular positions for the MLB/NBA/NFL guys. While it's true Ray Ray tended to get just a bit overrated in his final years based on what he used to be, there's absolutely nothing about him from '97 to '04 that suggests anything but being an obvious candidate for the greatest linebacker (particular middle/inside) in history. I saw that motherfucker live too.


That might honestly be the most difficult question you've ever asked. How do you even go about it? Bring up Shaq's dominance, but then you have to go ahead and wrap your head around Martinez (doing it in the steroid era), Woods making it look like a cakewalk, and Lewis being simply incredible. Same goes for if you want to start an argument in favor of any of them, too.

Who would you go with? Actually, let me rephrase that...whose dominance in their particular sport/position would you be most surprised to see replicated or surpassed in your lifetime?


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## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

FelixTrinidad said:


> HI JMP. You are a great poster.
> 
> But anyways yo Dealt_With is just blowing smoke out his ass. nobody's dying for shit dude.
> 
> ...


Is neither an option? I know I would get hospitalized in either scenario. I haven't really gave the issue in the thread much thought. I never played football in high school so I can't comment from personal experience. I boxed, but it was typically with headgear. All I know is that the mental and physical grind from boxing was insanely tough. Makes you seriously question yourself and dig deep to where you didn't think you could.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JMP said:


> That might honestly be the most difficult question you've ever asked. How do you even go about it? Bring up Shaq's dominance, but then you have to go ahead and wrap your head around Martinez (doing it in the steroid era), Woods making it look like a cakewalk, and Lewis being simply incredible. Same goes for if you want to start an argument in favor of any of them, too.
> 
> Who would you go with? Actually, let me rephrase that...whose dominance in their particular sport/position would you be most surprised to see replicated or surpassed in your lifetime?


Probably Pedro, in all honestly. He was shattering records that had stood for 120 years that were recorded in absolute dead ball eras, even if a portion of them were of the sabermetric variety which I kind of casually endorse. I used to do a lot of extensive write ups on all that shit on other forums that feels completely lost on me now :lol: In terms of his skill set and weapons at his disposal, with the power pitching and pin-point control combination he possessed, he was practically unstoppable. Even the stamina issues that plagued him soon after were hardly an issue. It wasn't really anything for him to throw 135+ and go all nine when they needed him to. He could dial it up and fuck with both Randy Johnson for velocity and Greg Maddux in terms of accuracy simultaneously. The movement on his four-seam fastball was pretty much beyond absurd and definitely enhanced from ET-like fingers, his circle change was the best in history bar none, both in terms of delivery and the break on it just before reaching the plate that a change up really has no business having... his curve (merely the third best in his arsenal) was better than the vast majority's top out-pitch. It's really no surprise that he has the MLB record of ten consecutive 10+ K games and nobody else -- not Johnson, Ryan, Koufax, Clemens comes within more than 3 games of that mark. He's also tied for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th longest streaks of the sort and all pretty much took place during his peak. Also tied for the single season record of 15+K games in 1999, something he did in like eight fewer starts than Ryan


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## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Probably Pedro, in all honestly. He was shattering records that had stood for 120 years that were recorded in absolute dead ball eras, even if a portion of them were of the sabermetric variety which I kind of casually endorse. I used to do a lot of extensive write ups on all that shit on other forums that feels completely lost on me now :lol: In terms of his skill set and weapons at his disposal, with the power pitching and pin-point control combination he possessed, he was practically unstoppable. Even the stamina issues that plagued him soon after were hardly an issue. It wasn't really anything for him to throw 135+ and go all nine when they needed him to. He could dial it up and fuck with both Randy Johnson for velocity and Greg Maddux in terms of accuracy simultaneously. The movement on his four-seam fastball was pretty much beyond absurd and definitely enhanced from ET-like fingers, his circle change was the best in history bar none, both in terms of delivery and the break on it just before reaching the plate that a change up really has no business having... his curve (merely the third best in his arsenal) was better than the vast majority's top out-pitch. It's really no surprise that he has the MLB record of ten consecutive 10+ K games and nobody else -- not Johnson, Ryan, Koufax, Clemens comes within more than 3 games of that mark. He's also tied for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th longest streaks of the sort and all pretty much took place during his peak. Also tied for the single season record of 15+K games in 1999, something he did in like eight fewer starts than Ryan


Great post. That was a serious educational experience.

I need to venture into the advanced statistics of Pedro and the other pitchers from back in the beginning of the 2000s. I was only about 10 at the time, so I really only watched while knowing basic statistics and basic facts (i.e., Pedro was the best pitcher, Bonds/Griffry the best five tool players, McGwire and Sosa the big HR guys).

It wasn't until Bonds started shattering records that I paid attention to advanced statistics and most of them are of the hitting variety such as runs created, isolated power, etc.

What amazes me about Pedro is that he was displaying the dominance over the best crop of hitters probably ever, a majority of whom were chemically enhanced. Even going by raw numbers, nobody has compared since. Johnson had the absurd strikeout totals, but never had the ERA or WHIP. Clemens was incredible, but Pedro peaked higher. Maddux's peak year came before Pedro. And then Glavine and the rest of the crop don't compare great as they were.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JMP said:


> Great post. That was a serious educational experience.
> 
> I need to venture into the advanced statistics of Pedro and the other pitchers from back in the beginning of the 2000s. I was only about 10 at the time, so I really only watched while knowing basic statistics and basic facts (i.e., Pedro was the best pitcher, Bonds/Griffry the best five tool players, McGwire and Sosa the big HR guys).
> 
> ...


 @Rattler is really good for this stuff and its probably all fresher in his mind. I think he actually may rate Maddux higher in terms of peak which is hardly ridiculous. I just don't remember Maddux as fondly, whereas every Pedro outing was treated as it's own event. I'll try to put together something comprehensive and detailed for you that best illustrates just how dominant he was when I get the time. All of it is out there... some are the most basic, such as the MLB records for raw stats like WHIP and BAA, some sabermetric and others weighed against the league average. His ERA is his "losses" in 2000 was lower than the NL League Leader's in the non-DH league. I believe it was also something like 3 whole runs below the league average, just way beyond preposterous. Also had twice as many strikeouts as hits allowed


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## Rattler (May 16, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> @Rattler is really good for this stuff and its probably all fresher in his mind. I think he actually may rate Maddux higher in terms of peak which is hardly ridiculous. I just don't remember Maddux as fondly, whereas every Pedro outing was treated as it's own event. I'll try to put together something comprehensive and detailed for you that best illustrates just how dominant he was when I get the time. All of it is out there... some are the most basic, such as the MLB records for raw stats like WHIP and BAA, some sabermetric and others weighed against the league average. His ERA is his "losses" in 2000 was lower than the NL League Leader's in the non-DH league. I believe it was also something like 3 whole runs below the league average, just way beyond preposterous. Also had twice as many strikeouts as hits allowed


Greg Maddux was a surgeon who methodically picked apart a batting order.

From 1997 to 2000, Pedro Martinez was probably the greatest peak pitcher in the history of baseball. He didn't carve teams up, he dominated them - while pitching in a pro-hitters park and league during one of the greatest hitter's era's in baseball.

Maddux's greatness is his consistency. Pedro's greatness is his dominance.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Rattler said:


> Greg Maddux was a surgeon who methodically picked apart a batting order.
> 
> From 1997 to 2000, Pedro Martinez was probably the greatest peak pitcher in the history of baseball. He didn't carve teams up, he dominated them - while pitching in a pro-hitters park and league during one of the greatest hitter's era's in baseball.
> 
> Maddux's greatness is his consistency. Pedro's greatness is his dominance.


There you go @JMP

Ever see what Pedro was up to in *2001* before he partially tore his rotator cuff and we lost the arguable GOAT as we knew him forever? Through the first couple months of the season, he was posting a 1.44 ERA and K/9 of something like 13.44. Well on his way to another season that would've stacked right up with '97, '99 and '00. Still came back and snagged another two ERA titles in 2002 and 2003 even at a very noticeably diminished capacity.


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## PowerBack (Jun 4, 2013)

Robney said:


> They use 20lbs of protective gear for what's basically a kind of rugby. Not really comparable with boxing if you ask me.


It is pretty clear that you don't know shit about the sport.


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## Stiffjab (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Maybe it's different for different people, but after a little while I found that I didn't notice punches other than body shots.


Im guessing Coach still has you in the beginners classes, for good reason.

Watch a full game of NRL "state of origin" and tell me the NFL is tougher, please.


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## PowerBack (Jun 4, 2013)

Robney said:


> Now imagine that without the helmet, shoulder- and kneepads and you have a good old rugby match.
> If American Football is that tough, then how "extreme" is rugby?


You can't pass the ball forward in rugby, which is what is happening here.


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## PowerBack (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Mcgahee was on the ground for 5 minutes after this motionless except for his hands twitching


That game was a slaughter. Steelers-Ravens football.


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## Stiffjab (May 21, 2013)

Stiffjab said:


> Im guessing Coach still has you in the beginners classes, for good reason.
> 
> Watch a full game of NRL "state of origin" and tell me the NFL is tougher, please.


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## Stiffjab (May 21, 2013)

The only difference between a big hit in the NRL and the NHL is the pads and helmet.


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## Stiffjab (May 21, 2013)




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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Stiffjab said:


> Im guessing Coach still has you in the beginners classes, for good reason.
> 
> Watch a full game of NRL "state of origin" and tell me the NFL is tougher, please.


League isn't even as tough as Union. I train a professional Union team.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Stiffjab said:


> The only difference between a big hit in the NRL and the NHL is the pads and helmet.


The NRL contains very few world class athletes. Almost all NFL players are. Compare strength, compare 20/40yard or metre dash, compare vertical jump height. You think a population of Australia is going to produce a national competition on the level of the US/NFL? You're clueless.


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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

this has become a "who has the Longer dick thread" like childen.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Berliner said:


> this has become a "who has the Longer dick thread" like childen.


Girth FTW.


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## Gunner (Jun 4, 2013)

Berliner said:


> this has become a "who has the Longer dick thread" like childen.


Not a sentence I like to associate with children tbf


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## Undefeated (Nov 23, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Um Andre Ward was a football player, so was Tim Bradley and Devon Alexander. In fact im pretty sure most US boxers played some level of football not that in any way they correspond with eachother.


But where those guys in with a chance of turning pro though wasnt Seth Mitchell a good college player but an injury ruined his chance of a shot in the NFL, and the soccer guys i mentioned i think all had to make a choice in there late teens to either be a footballer or boxer and those 3 chose boxing Ricky Hatton was even in the Man City youth team.


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## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

Why is it when anyone mentions the NFL, it always (always) turns into a Rugby v NFL thread by page 2? Both are tough, as is boxing.


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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

fists of fury said:


> Why is it when anyone mentions the NFL, it always (always) turns into a Rugby v NFL thread by page 2? Both are tough, as is boxing.


because insecure guys have to act like Little children.

and who cares anyway? what is the big deal if one Sport is tougher than the other? stuipid nothing more.


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

Darren Barker against Daniel Geale deserves a mention in this thread on the day Dazzling Darren retires


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

PowerBack said:


> That game was a slaughter. Steelers-Ravens football.


yeah man, it's one of the most memorable games I've ever seen. It seemed like every single tackle in the game could be heard. You just kept hearing the smashing of the pads hitting everytime through the TV. Even when they would block for each other (Hines Ward)


Hands of Iron said:


>


I hate Dunta Robinson. His bitchass does stuff like that all the time. he did a dirty hit the very next year against the Eagles again on brent Celek



Dealt_with said:


> That's a far more powerful hit than the rugby one, dude was getting low in an athletic position and he still got blasted


yeah no doubt, he saw Ryan Clark coming, lowered his center of gravity and braced for the hit and still got blasted.


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## 2377 (Jun 6, 2013)

On and on the argument goes, but no matter what side you're on I think we can all agree that the NFL is probably the closest thing to boxing (in terms of toughness, violence, sacrifice made by the athletes, etc) of all the American team sports. When people say that the best American heavyweights are in the NBA, I laugh my ass off. Kobe Bryant in a boxing ring? Yeah right.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Montero said:


> On and on the argument goes, but no matter what side you're on I think we can all agree that the NFL is probably the closest thing to boxing (in terms of toughness, violence, sacrifice made by the athletes, etc) of all the American team sports. When people say that the best American heavyweights are in the NBA, I laugh my ass off. Kobe Bryant in a boxing ring? Yeah right.


athleticism wise the NBA has many great athletes that could have made good boxers if they started when they were young. If you want an athlete to switch over in their 20's then, I'd go with the NFL.


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## 2377 (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> athleticism wise the NBA has many great athletes that could have made good boxers if they started when they were young. If you want an athlete to switch over in their 20's then, I'd go with the NFL.


Being a great athlete is only one of many factors in regards to building a great boxer. I think the typical NFL player has much more of these factors than the average NBA player. For a team sport, I just feel that football is more synonymous with boxing than the rest.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Montero said:


> Being a great athlete is only one of many factors in regards to building a great boxer. I think the typical NFL player has much more of these factors than the average NBA player. For a team sport, I just feel that football is more synonymous with boxing than the rest.


I don't disagree with that, I'm just saying you shouldn't dismiss basketball players either. I've played against some freak athletes who aren't even good enough to start on a D1 basketball team who are over 6'0. There are probably a decent number of NBA players that could have been good at this if they were trained to do so at a young age.


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## Stiffjab (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> League isn't even as tough as Union. I train a professional Union team.


Is that the game where they spend 90% of the time kicking penalties, drop goals or kicking for touch?

But you train a professional Union team so you can't be wrong. Such a solid argument atsch


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## One to watch (Jun 5, 2013)

Rugby league is a very tough sport.
The 'rugby for northerners' is athletic,fast and hard.the players are immensely fit and don't carry fat.

You get hit in rugby league,it's going to fucking hurt.as I'm sure it does in American football and I can vouch it does in boxing.

By the way,anyone saying being punched in boxing doesn't hurt apart from liver shots is bullshitting or never been in a competitive spar let alone fight.


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## hermit (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah those guys are just so protected


Top athletes in brutal games. Hard to compare but all know the carnage. The NFL has done a good job until now of hiding it. I heard an interview with Bernie Kosar and how his physical ailments affected his life. Not a pretty picture. He may have gotten away without the head trauma but the rest of his body is racked with pain.


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## hermit (Jun 4, 2013)

FelixTrinidad said:


> All Scientific research shows that if Lennox Lewis and Ray Lewis swapped places.. Ray Lewis would not have been a top 10 HW ATG, but Lennox would have been GOAT WR.
> 
> It's science. Lennox was the #1 Prospect in North America and everyone wanted him to play American Football, but he said that he will rather box.
> 
> ...


OH GOD. PLEASE POST A LINK TO THIS "SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH". :rofl


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## 2377 (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I don't disagree with that, I'm just saying you shouldn't dismiss basketball players either. I've played against some freak athletes who aren't even good enough to start on a D1 basketball team who are over 6'0. There are probably a decent number of NBA players that could have been good at this if they were trained to do so at a young age.


Valid point. I guess I'm just saying that I feel America's best heavyweights are in the NFL, not the NBA. That's not to say there aren't some guys in the NBA that could've been quality HW contenders, I just think the skill set in the NFL is more applicable - thus those guys would have greater potential (as a rule, there are always exceptions).


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Montero said:


> Valid point. I guess I'm just saying that I feel America's best heavyweights are in the NFL, not the NBA. That's not to say there aren't some guys in the NBA that could've been quality HW contenders, I just think the skill set in the NFL is more applicable - thus those guys would have greater potential (as a rule, there are always exceptions).


yeah I definitely got what you're saying.


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Montero said:


> Valid point. I guess I'm just saying that I feel America's best heavyweights are in the NFL, not the NBA. That's not to say there aren't some guys in the NBA that could've been quality HW contenders, I just think the skill set in the NFL is more applicable - thus those guys would have greater potential (as a rule, there are always exceptions).


I still think Boxing is just on another level.

What I mean is this:
If I was to bet my LIFE on either Lennox Lewis becoming a NFL Star or Ray Lewis becoming a HW TOP 10 ATG.
Say Lennox never picked up boxing, just continued on to football. Say Ray never picked up football and started boxing at age 10.
I would still say Lennox's chances of NFL Success is higher than Ray becoming an ATG.

It's not just Lennox.
I would say Mike Tyson's chance of success in the NFL is probably >than Adrien Peterson's chance as a HW superstar.(Even if Peterson started at age 10)
Etc.


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

As for the 'brain damaged' Theory.

It's insanely flawed but Dealt_With is too retarded to understand why.

You are taking a massive pool of NFL Players over the last 20 years.. and literally every single incident is being reported.

You are taking a much smaller pool of boxers. Of course the stats will be less.
There are literally hundreds of journeymen level boxers with some sort of injury, but it's never reported.
A 3rd string NFL player who suffers brain damage is still being reported and added to the stats.

If you actually track EVERY single boxer who ever boxed starting from 1960-Current.. the # of injuries is definitely higher than NFL.
But it's impossible to keep track of this, when it is very easy to keep track of NFL injuries because it is a team sport under one league.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

hermit said:


> Top athletes in brutal games. Hard to compare but all know the carnage. The NFL has done a good job until now of hiding it. I heard an interview with Bernie Kosar and how his physical ailments affected his life. Not a pretty picture. He may have gotten away without the head trauma but the rest of his body is racked with pain.


yeah I had no idea how bad the quality of life of former players was until a few years ago. They really kept that a secret.

:verysad


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah I had no idea how bad the quality of life of former players was until a few years ago. They really kept that a secret.
> 
> :verysad


NFL is a brutal sport. This is a fact. But I still find it hard to agree with the people who say the NFL players are as mentally tough as boxers.

I think the mental strength of boxers are without peer in regards to any Team Sport.

Evander Holyfield was saying that when he fought Lewis... every time he lost concentrate for just 1 second.. he was hurt badly. In that 5th round, Evander literally just took his eyes off Lennox for a split second and Lennox was battering him all over the ring, you could hear those shots and you could tell how painful it was for Holyfield.

In the NFL, no matter how much you slice it. The concentration comes from one burst and than you break. There is no sustained level of mental strength involved.
In boxing you are talking 12-15 Rounds of pure mental stamina. The '1 minute breaks' in between rounds is nothing compared to the breaks in an NFL Game.

You can't compare a 3 minute boxing round at the elite level with a burst of insane activity that lasts 10 seconds.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

my bad @FelixTrinidad, I'm not really saying they're on the same level. I was mostly arguing NFL vs Rugby, and the people saying just because they're wearing "armor" means they're pussies.

I always tell my friends how boxing is so mentally tough. You can break your hand, nose, orbital bone, etc in a fight and there are no time outs or substitutions. You not only get tired and fatigued, but you get punched in the face while doing it and bleeding. If you got a concussion, you don't come out the game. You have to keep fighting and continue getting hit in the face










Boxers do little things like hold, spit their mouth piece out, or lowblow just to get a couple seconds to breath. It's just you there in that fight. If you make 1 mistake in another sport, you got a team to fall back on or you can make it up next possession. In boxing, if you make one mistake, not just you can lose the fight, you can lose your life.

Mentally boxing is absolutely tougher than the NFL, but the NFL still takes plenty of toughness as well


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> my bad @*FelixTrinidad*, I'm not really saying they're on the same level. I was mostly arguing NFL vs Rugby, and the people saying just because they're wearing "armor" means they're pussies.
> 
> I always tell my friends how boxing is so mentally tough. You can break your hand, nose, orbital bone, etc in a fight and there are no time outs or substitutions. You not only get tired and fatigued, but you get punched in the face while doing it and bleeding. If you got a concussion, you don't come out the game. You have to keep fighting and continue getting hit in the face
> 
> ...


I think they are equaly mentally tough and there is shit that goes on in the trenches in the NFL that people won't talk about more because its a group thing more than the individual thing in boxing.

They both require supreme mental focus, strength, and ability to apply skill. It is just they are completely different sports. When we accept they are different lanes then true discussion can happen. Loss of mental focus is what allowed Hine Ward to end the Bengels CB's season with a broken jaw and concussion because he didn't respect that Hines was going to block. Lack of focus is what got that dude from the packer's career ended when he was jogging down the field and sapp blocked him from the blind side destroying his vision for the rest of his life.

Hell just this year a dude got his finger torn off in the NFL and continued to play.
Rashad Johnson


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

Boxing, hockey and NFL football are the toughest mainstream sports. Some shit like bullriding lol isnt mainstream but its still a sport and tougher than all three. In boxing you get more direct blunt force trauma and in nfl you take less direct trauma but still take huge hits and after your done both your brain and body will be beat. Both are tough.


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## hermit (Jun 4, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> I think they are equaly mentally tough and there is shit that goes on in the trenches in the NFL that people won't talk about more because its a group thing more than the individual thing in boxing.
> 
> They both require supreme mental focus, strength, and ability to apply skill. It is just they are completely different sports. When we accept they are different lanes then true discussion can happen. Loss of mental focus is what allowed Hine Ward to end the Bengels CB's season with a broken jaw and concussion because he didn't respect that Hines was going to block. Lack of focus is what got that dude from the packer's career ended when he was jogging down the field and sapp blocked him from the blind side destroying his vision for the rest of his life.
> 
> ...


Exactly. People are making apple to orange comparisons. Boxers are, in theory, protected by commissions from continuing too long. Most never see any real money and quit before the damage mounts. They are, in theory, watched more closely for these symptoms. The NFL has been hiding this shit for years. They knew. I'm in no position to question any top athlete's mental toughness.


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## hermit (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah I had no idea how bad the quality of life of former players was until a few years ago. They really kept that a secret.
> 
> :verysad


I prettymuch put in my post to bama what I was going to say here.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

'Mental toughness' isn't something that's quantifiable anyway. If someone is a top athlete in any sport then chances are they tick all the boxes for 'mental toughness' however you define it. There would be top tennis players far more 'mentally tough' than some boxers. 
Don't give up, endure through pain, self belief in the face of adversity, psychological skills to work through any situation.. Etc etc.
Not many athletes are going to get to the top of their sport if they don't have those things. I understand we're on a boxing forum but how about some objectivity and honesty here. There would be thousands of athletes 'mentally tougher' than the likes of Dawson and Judah (at times) so how tough is boxing really? Take it on an athlete by athlete basis.


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## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

FelixTrinidad said:


> As for the 'brain damaged' Theory.
> 
> It's insanely flawed but Dealt_With is too retarded to understand why.
> 
> ...


Good points.


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## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> 'Mental toughness' isn't something that's quantifiable anyway. If someone is a top athlete in any sport then chances are they tick all the boxes for 'mental toughness' however you define it. There would be top tennis players far more 'mentally tough' than some boxers.
> Don't give up, endure through pain, self belief in the face of adversity, psychological skills to work through any situation.. Etc etc.
> Not many athletes are going to get to the top of their sport if they don't have those things. I understand we're on a boxing forum but how about some objectivity and honesty here. There would be thousands of athletes 'mentally tougher' than the likes of Dawson and Judah (at times) so how tough is boxing really? Take it on an athlete by athlete basis.


There is truth to what you say, but I think if you had to somehow do a study, you'd find that boxing requires greater mental toughness than most sports. To take the Tennis argument then yes, it requires great mental toughness and athletes have to battle through nerves, fatigue, injuries etc. 
In boxing though, they have the same obstacles and are getting punched in the face on top of that. Pain makes cowards of men, and in boxing pain is a day-to-day aspect of life.


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## Stylez (Jun 6, 2013)

I think football players are actually tougher than boxers, or should I say they have to display more toughness. Boxing may be a tougher sport, but football players have to display more toughness. I say this because it's a team sport with a set schedule. Furthermore, a lot of the money is not guarenteed. So if a football players suffers a bad injury on Sunday, the pressure from his coaches and teammates will make him suck it up and play again the following week. Boxers can quit anytime they want during a fight, and can take time off to heal before their next fight. Pacquiao was concussed against Marquez and was able to take months off before returning to action. If a football player is concussed, he's back in a week or two.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> I think they are equaly mentally tough and there is shit that goes on in the trenches in the NFL that people won't talk about more because its a group thing more than the individual thing in boxing.
> 
> They both require supreme mental focus, strength, and ability to apply skill. It is just they are completely different sports. When we accept they are different lanes then true discussion can happen. Loss of mental focus is what allowed Hine Ward to end the Bengels CB's season with a broken jaw and concussion because he didn't respect that Hines was going to block. Lack of focus is what got that dude from the packer's career ended when he was jogging down the field and sapp blocked him from the blind side destroying his vision for the rest of his life.
> 
> ...


Yeah I get what you're saying. I guess it's just too hard to compare the two


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Stylez said:


> I think football players are actually tougher than boxers, or should I say they have to display more toughness. Boxing may be a tougher sport, but football players have to display more toughness. I say this because it's a team sport with a set schedule. Furthermore, a lot of the money is not guarenteed. So if a football players suffers a bad injury on Sunday, the pressure from his coaches and teammates will make him suck it up and play again the following week. Boxers can quit anytime they want during a fight, and can take time off to heal before their next fight. Pacquiao was concussed against Marquez and was able to take months off before returning to action. If a football player is concussed, he's back in a week or two.


man this isn't even comparable. Boxer's are much more vulnerable financially than NFL players


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> Yeah I get what you're saying. I guess it's just too hard to compare the two


You can't compare them apples to apples, you just have to recognize its a apple to oranges comparison.
When you do that you can respect both sports and the toughness that both sports require.
On top of that you can be more objective and say, hey in boxing you get hit more but you get hit with hands. 
In football you get hit less, but you get hit by a person's full body at very high speeds, and from the head to the toe, not just the waist up to the head like in boxing.


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> man this isn't even comparable. Boxer's are much more vulnerable financially than NFL players


Depends, a top young boxer can start his career early and make bank.
Broner and Canelo already have money and career success in boxing, as well as Spence, and etc.
In football by law you are forced to work for free until you are 21 years of age. So the true stars in boxing get their earning potential, the potential of football players is in limbo with havign to make it out of college still healthy.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> Depends, a top young boxer can start his career early and make bank.
> Broner and Canelo already have money and career success in boxing, as well as Spence, and etc.
> In football by law you are forced to work for free until you are 21 years of age. So the true stars in boxing get their earning potential, the potential of football players is in limbo with havign to make it out of college still healthy.


yeah, but there is more money available for football and better resources for you to succeed with highschool teams and such. With boxing, you not only have to be good, but also be lucky enough to have a good manager/promoter.

Now it's true that some good highschool players may not find the best recruiters, but it's easier imo to get to a good school than it is to get to a good promoter. Then once you go pro, you can make a good living just playing on the practice team



> Practice squad players earn significantly less than players on the active roster, but they still take home a solid weekly paycheck. N*FL practice squad players make a minimum of $6,000 per week they are on the practice squad*. There is no limit to how much a team can pay a player on the practice squad. Some will offer a higher weekly salary in order to entice better players to sign, although the practice squad contracts do count against the salary cap.


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## Leftsmash (Oct 22, 2012)

fists of fury said:


> There is truth to what you say, but I think if you had to somehow do a study, you'd find that boxing requires greater mental toughness than most sports. To take the Tennis argument then yes, it requires great mental toughness and athletes have to battle through nerves, fatigue, injuries etc.
> In boxing though, they have the same obstacles and are getting punched in the face on top of that. *Pain makes cowards of men*, and in boxing pain is a day-to-day aspect of life.


This.


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah, but there is more money available for football and better resources for you to succeed with highschool teams and such. With boxing, you not only have to be good, but also be lucky enough to have a good manager/promoter.
> 
> Now it's true that some good highschool players may not find the best recruiters, but it's easier imo to get to a good school than it is to get to a good promoter. Then once you go pro, you can make a good living just playing on the practice team


My point is this you have more kids playing football up to college than all the boxers in the US coming up probably over 100x, and only a fraction of them even get to the point where they get paid and that is after surgery going up.

Even a low end boxer gets paid.


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## Stylez (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> man this isn't even comparable. Boxer's are much more vulnerable financially than NFL players


It doesn't matter. The nature of the sport compels football players to continually play with serious injuries well before they are healed. Even if you're a top level NFL player, you will return early from injury if it's a big game. A top level boxer can postpone their fight if there is a real injury concern. RG III returned less than 9 months from a torn ACL. Sergio Martinez will be out of action for 14 months from his less serious knee injury. Yes, boxers in general get paid crap. However, the sport of boxing allows its participants more flexibility in terms of recovering from injury than is the case with football.


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## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

I wonder if anybody on here has played his RPG game Barkley Shut Up and Jam Gaiden


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

I use to play Barkley shut up an jam for super nintendo back in the day all day. That game was the shit


KOTF said:


> I wonder if anybody on here has played his RPG game Barkley Shut Up and Jam Gaiden


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

fists of fury said:


> There is truth to what you say, but I think if you had to somehow do a study, you'd find that boxing requires greater mental toughness than most sports. To take the Tennis argument then yes, it requires great mental toughness and athletes have to battle through nerves, fatigue, injuries etc.
> In boxing though, they have the same obstacles and are getting punched in the face on top of that. Pain makes cowards of men, and in boxing pain is a day-to-day aspect of life.


I don't understand why 'getting punched in the face' is considered a big deal. They wouldn't be a boxer if it concerned them that much. Getting punched in the face doesn't make you any more tired and I don't believe it hurts. Pain is perception and easily handled, it's fatigue that makes cowards of men. I think marathon runners are 'tougher' than boxers personally.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> I don't understand why 'getting punched in the face' is considered a big deal. They wouldn't be a boxer if it concerned them that much. Getting punched in the face doesn't make you any more tired and I don't believe it hurts. Pain is perception and easily handled, it's fatigue that makes cowards of men. I think marathon runners are 'tougher' than boxers personally.


:lol: fuck off. I think you've just been trolling people on this forum over the past year with the ridiculous shit you say. It's consistent shit too. You can't be this serious


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> :lol: fuck off. I think you've just been trolling people on this forum over the past year with the ridiculous shit you say. It's consistent shit too. You can't be this serious


I'm 100% serious. I know we fap over boxers on a boxing forum but the idea of being 'tough' is bullshit, in boxing or any other sport. You do what you have to do, what you choose to do. If you're prepared for it you don't need to be 'tough'. A bunch of emotional pussies on here tbh.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> I'm 100% serious. I know we fap over boxers on a boxing forum but the idea of being 'tough' is bullshit, in boxing or any other sport. You do what you have to do, what you choose to do. If you're prepared for it you don't need to be 'tough'. A bunch of emotional pussies on here tbh.


man you said a fricken marathon runner is tougher than boxers. You said getting punched in a the face isn't a big deal. I mean really man. The gig is up. You've been trolling this whole time @Abraham @Johnstown @MadcapMaxie don't waste your time with this anymore


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## Abraham (May 9, 2013)

There is no way in hell dealt_with has boxed before with that school of thought...no fucking way.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> man you said a fricken marathon runner is tougher than boxers. You said getting punched in a the face isn't a big deal. I mean really man. The gig is up. You've been trolling this whole time
> @Abraham @Johnstown @MadcapMaxie don't waste your time with this anymore


Damn right a marathon is mentally tougher than boxing. Running at the edge for 2+ hours is tougher than 12x3 minute rounds with breaks. Getting punched in the face isn't a big deal at all. I know pro boxers who think they're training 'hard' because they're running 10km. The hardest thing about boxing is making weight.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Abraham said:


> There is no way in hell dealt_with has boxed before with that school of thought...no fucking way.


I don't think you guys have boxed before if you think boxing is that tough. Getting punched in the face is nothing after only a few sparring sessions, only body punches can make you pause and say "shit". I can't even imagine how easy it is for a professional getting paid a lot of money and dedicating their life to it.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Abraham said:


> There is no way in hell dealt_with has boxed before with that school of thought...no fucking way.


blocking punches in boxing still hurts atsch

Paulie's jab would hurt like shit. And yes I've boxed plenty of times @Dealt_with
I can show you videos of me training where you've shown no proof or evidence of anything you do


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> I don't think you guys have boxed before if you think boxing is that tough. Getting punched in the face is nothing after only a few sparring sessions, only body punches can make you pause and say "shit". I can't even imagine how easy it is for a professional getting paid a lot of money and dedicating their life to it.


...so turn professional and earn heaps then because it's so easy and not tough. With your superior knowledge of the kinetic chain, VO2max, strength and conditioning shouldn't be no thang.


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## Abraham (May 9, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> I don't think you guys have boxed before if you think boxing is that tough. Getting punched in the face is nothing after only a few sparring sessions, only body punches can make you pause and say "shit". I can't even imagine how easy it is for a professional getting paid a lot of money and dedicating their life to it.


I've boxed plenty. Yes, body shots are more bothersome than headshots, but for you to say boxing isn't tough? You've gotta be fucking kidding, dude. There's a lot more than getting hit that makes boxing tough. I don't think ANY boxer, including those far more accomplished than you would make such an outrageous claim. If it came so easy to you, then why aren't you out there making millions right now? You're definitely trolling. There is no way you can possibly be this stupid and stubborn.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> ...so turn professional and earn heaps then because it's so easy and not tough. With your superior knowledge of the kinetic chain, VO2max, strength and conditioning shouldn't be no thang.


Again with your little mind, assuming that everybody thinks the same and has the same motivations as you.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Again with your little mind, assuming that everybody thinks the same and has the same motivations as you.


....what's the problem you said it's easy and not tough, you've said you've competed why not take a couple hours a day so in the long run you earn millions? Shit is eeeee-zzzzzzz right?


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> man you said a fricken marathon runner is tougher than boxers. You said getting punched in a the face isn't a big deal. I mean really man. The gig is up. You've been trolling this whole time
> @Abraham @Johnstown @MadcapMaxie don't waste your time with this anymore


Funny this isn't even close to the most absurd shit he's said.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> ....what's the problem you said it's easy and not tough, you've said you've competed why not take a couple hours a day so in the long run you earn millions? Shit is eeeee-zzzzzzz right?


Yeah.. even you're not that stupid.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Yeah.. even you're not that stupid.


"PEDs don't actually enhance performance" Dealt with


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> "PEDs don't actually enhance performance" Dealt with


Not in boxing and a lot of sports. You do know that there is no such thing as a 'Performance enhancing drug' right? There's a list of 'banned substances' with little science behind the rationale, and it doesn't take different sports into account.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Not in boxing and a lot of sports. *You do know that there is no such thing as a 'Performance enhancing drug' right?* There's a list of 'banned substances' with little science behind the rationale, and it doesn't take different sports into account.


LOL man you continue to out-do your stupidity.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> LOL man you continue to out-do your stupidity.


Okay then, go to the WADA, USADA, ASADA lists and find where it says 'performance enhancing drugs'. It's a list of prohibited substances you dumbass, with no science behind including them on there. Many of the things on there don't even exist, it's a case of saying 'if something like this exists then don't use it because we don't know what it does'.


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

90 percent of gym rats in the country are loaded with more shit than even the top pros. where are they and why arent they champs?because it doesnt increase performance.. people on here dont know shit about peds. i agree with you


Dealt_with said:


> Okay then, go to the WADA, USADA, ASADA lists and find where it says 'performance enhancing drugs'. It's a list of prohibited substances you dumbass, with no science behind including them on there. Many of the things on there don't even exist, it's a case of saying 'if something like this exists then don't use it because we don't know what it does'.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Brnxhands said:


> 90 percent of gym rats in the country are loaded with more shit than even the top pros. where are they and why arent they champs?because it doesnt increase performance.. people on here dont know shit about peds. i agree with you


Unless they're competing in sports that doesn't really mean anything either tbf. But it's true that less successful athletes are more likely to use prohibited substances, very common at the college level and with amateur athletes. The more high profile substances are useful for putting on muscle mass for the sake of it, but that has very little to do with athletic performance (often detrimental to performance in a lot of sports) most of the time.


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

i was meaning amatuers my bad had a few beers, npc amateur bodybuilders cycles are even more fuckin crazy than alot of pros, i know some out in long island and its straight up crazy, cant even win a regional show. all come down to starting at a young age, more years perfecting the better you are at any craft. bodybuilding is obviously not the activity the activity to use the best example of this lol, but im sayin some just have a better genetic makeup. Trained with a fromer fighter, use to be on all year long no brake off cycle. He was always around top 15 level, but could never cut it at the top pro level. drugs dont help much in boxing


Dealt_with said:


> Unless they're competing in sports that doesn't really mean anything either tbf. But it's true that less successful athletes are more likely to use prohibited substances, very common at the college level and with amateur athletes. The more high profile substances are useful for putting on muscle mass for the sake of it, but that has very little to do with athletic performance (often detrimental to performance in a lot of sports) most of the time.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Brnxhands said:


> i was meaning amatuers my bad had a few beers, npc amateur bodybuilders cycles are even more fuckin crazy than alot of pros, i know some out in long island and its straight up crazy, cant even win a regional show. all come down to starting at a young age, more years perfecting the better you are at any craft. bodybuilding is obviously not the activity the activity to use the best example of this lol, but im sayin some just have a better genetic makeup.


Bodybuilders are essentially the Only type of example where "PEDs" as they're known actually directly contribute to success/performance considering the vast majority of these banned substances are just various forms of synthetic testosterone and ancillary compounds that restore the body's natural test production when cycling off. Obviously, if you're injecting loads of exogenous testosterone into your body, natural production of it is going to cease. I feel bad for a lot of these stupid ass kids that use that shit with no PCT on hand and wind up with terrible gyno and shrunken nuts :lol: A lot of them pop orals like Dbol or Anadrol like candy. A lot of water bloat and a pissed off liver.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Funny this isn't even close to the most absurd shit he's said.


that's very true. With the Lomachenko stuff, I just though that maybe he was a REALLLY big fan. And when he said he'd beat Mayweather 10-2, maybe he's just an irrational hater. Then he said that crap about PEDs and I got suspicious. Now I'm just like wtf :blood


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

i know hands. i been bodybuilding since i was 12. Stopped at 23. You gotta be a fuckin not to be poppin orals. Some say its not as bad as some think, some people think there terrible. I think think there terrible.


Hands of Iron said:


> Bodybuilders are essentially the Only type of example where "PEDs" as they're known actually directly contribute to success/performance considering the vast majority of these banned substances are just various forms of synthetic testosterone and ancillary compounds that restore the body's natural test production when cycling off. Obviously, if you're injecting loads of exogenous testosterone into your body, natural production of it is going to cease. I feel bad for a lot of these stupid ass kids that use that shit with no PCT on hand and wind up with terrible gyno and shrunken nuts :lol: A lot of them pop orals like Dbol or Anadrol like candy. A lot of water bloat and a pissed off liver.


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

And by the way what do you think of the tyson holy fights? Would holy always take him?


Hands of Iron said:


> Bodybuilders are essentially the Only type of example where "PEDs" as they're known actually directly contribute to success/performance considering the vast majority of these banned substances are just various forms of synthetic testosterone and ancillary compounds that restore the body's natural test production when cycling off. Obviously, if you're injecting loads of exogenous testosterone into your body, natural production of it is going to cease. I feel bad for a lot of these stupid ass kids that use that shit with no PCT on hand and wind up with terrible gyno and shrunken nuts :lol: A lot of them pop orals like Dbol or Anadrol like candy. A lot of water bloat and a pissed off liver.


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

Ill also say this. Post prison tyson was definitely cycling. I always thought it an still do. So what changed? Why wasnt he the same fighter? Or why wasnt he better? Definitely past it yeah, layoff yeah. It didnt help him because he lost his technique. He abandoned it. An no drugs could help him. It doesnt help fighters become superman like people think


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Brnxhands said:


> And by the way what do you think of the tyson holy fights? Would holy always take him?


Fuck no lol.


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

lol maybe. tyson was findin him over top at will with the right hand in the second fight, looked like he figured him out until the dq


Hands of Iron said:


> Fuck no lol.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Brnxhands said:


> lol maybe. tyson was findin him over top at will with the right hand in the second fight, looked like he figured him out until the dq


His skills were just so depressingly diminished post-prison that I can't even watch it these days. He was already dipping off notably in the Ruddock fights even though he beat the piss out of that dude and pretty much ruined him. Tyson would've stopped him prime-for-prime, decisioned him in '91 (though I think it's about 50/50) and lose to him post-prison.


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

One of flaws of the D'Amato Peek-A-Boo style was the susceptibility to the uppercut, you can slip jabs and duck from right hands but the Uppercut was a clear weakness. It's where Buster Douglas & Lennox Lewis did the most damage against Mike.

















@*Hands of Iron* I think Holy had his number, but I'm not sure about the Crusierwight version in 1991 by 1996 he had been at his weight comfortably and been through a couple of wars which battle hardened him for a past-peak Tyson in 1996. Mentally is where it's at, and I think that's where Holyfield has it over Tyson. You could probably elaborate more on the styles technical-wise you nerd cunt. (j/ks)


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Tyson-Ruddock II was an awesome two-way battle. One of my favourite Heavyweight fights of the 90s.

Is that you in your avatar @Hands of Iron


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

I only watched the douglas fight twice. Hurt me to much to watch lol. I just revisited the holy fights that why i asked. I dont like seein my guys lose either


Hands of Iron said:


> His skills were just so depressingly diminished post-prison that I can't even watch it these days. He was already dipping off notably in the Ruddock fights even though he beat the piss out of that dude and pretty much ruined him. Tyson would've stopped him prime-for-prime, decisioned him in '91 (though I think it's about 50/50) and lose to him post-prison.


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

Yeah thats him. Angel manfredy Jr


Pedderrs said:


> Tyson-Ruddock II was an awesome two-way battle. One of my favourite Heavyweight fights of the 90s.
> 
> Is that your in your avatar @*Hands of Iron*


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Brnxhands said:


> Ill also say this. Post prison tyson was definitely cycling. I always thought it an still do. So what changed? Why wasnt he the same fighter? Or why wasnt he better? Definitely past it yeah, layoff yeah. It didnt help him because he lost his technique. He abandoned it. An no drugs could help him. It doesnt help fighters become superman like people think


I think taking those substances is symptomatic of a lazy mindset, a search for shortcuts because you're not willing to work. And boxing is so dependant on skills and technique, the more a sport relies on skill then the less difference those substances are going to make anyway. Tyson, Toney and Tarver all fall into what I'm saying here. Tyson was likely a psychopath anyway and psychopaths have been shown to have higher levels of testosterone naturally. Female doping is a different issue, that's where it can make a big difference imo.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

> Note- Pedders has been banished from the express due to his admission that he has only been watching boxing for 6 months, please ignore this poster and his opinions.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

tezel8764 said:


> One of flaws of the D'Amato Peek-A-Boo style was the susceptibility to the uppercut, you can slip jabs and duck from right hands but the Uppercut was a clear weakness. It's where Buster Douglas & Lennox Lewis did the most damage against Mike.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Brnxhands said:


> I only watched the douglas fight twice. Hurt me to much to watch lol. I just revisited the holy fights that why i asked. I dont like seein my guys lose either


Yeah, I was literally just talking about this a couple days ago in the other forum, then heavy_hands got all spastic and I just walked away from it.



Pedderrs said:


> Tyson-Ruddock II was an awesome two-way battle. One of my favourite Heavyweight fights of the 90s.
> 
> Is that your in your avatar @Hands of Iron


Yeah, one of mine too. Tyson was awfully dirty, though. :lol: Probably my favorite fight as far as crushing the myth of what happens if you just "stand up to him". Ruddock had 20 lbs on him as well, ate the smash like nothing.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Yeah, I was literally just talking about this a couple days ago in the other forum, then heavy_hands got all spastic and I just walked away from it.
> 
> Yeah, one of mine too. Tyson was awfully dirty, though. :lol: Probably my favorite fight as far as crushing the myth of what happens if you just "stand up to him". Ruddock had 20 lbs on him as well, ate the smash like nothing.


Ruddock might be the most pronounced examples ever of a fighter falling in love with his power. He was given the nickname 'Razor' because of his slashing jab. It was compared to Larry Holmes' jab in the early days, and, to be fair, if you watch his fight with Mike Weaver then that's not as absurd as it sounds.






Lateral movement, double jabs, body shots, combinations, etc. Completely unrecognisable to the one-paced plodder we saw fight Tyson twice. He's a bit green in the Weaver bout, but if he had learned how to use his power without completely disregarding everything else then he may have had more success against the top guys. Purely speculation, but it's rare you see such a pronounced change in style like that.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Brnxhands said:


> i know hands. i been bodybuilding since i was 12. Stopped at 23. You gotta be a fuckin not to be poppin orals. Some say its not as bad as some think, some people think there terrible. I think think there terrible.


It's always only been sort of an on-and-off hobby for me, never any kind of goals in terms of doing it competitively so I never dabbled into gear though it was sort of tempting at one point. It's just incredibly easy for me to gain with the most fuckin basic amino and plain old dextrose supplementation :lol: But I'm also short (like Lomachenko-sized), have smallish joints and fill out pretty easily. Just barely started again a couple weeks ago. This place is sort of a hindrance though. :think


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

Lol yeah i thought i hear you mention it before. I met Kevin levrone when i was 12 years old. An I was hooked. I was real big at 14. I was 5'9 then and im still a little over 5'9 now but i was bigger at 14 lol. I dont really care anymore. I still lift but I gotta watch. Over the years my shoulders got bad. I did alot of heavy ass behind the neck militarys.Laterals dont bother me so thats all my shoulder work.


Hands of Iron said:


> It's always only been sort of an on-and-off hobby for me, never any kind of goals in terms of doing it competitively so I never dabbled into gear though it was sort of tempting at one point. It's just incredibly easy for me to gain with the most fuckin basic amino and plain old dextrose supplementation :lol: But I'm also short (like Lomachenko-sized), have smallish joints and fill out pretty easily. Just barely started again a couple weeks ago. This place is sort of a hindrance though. :think


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Brnxhands said:


> Yeah thats him. Angel manfredy Jr


:rofl

Yeah, it's either that or skinhead member of the AB, which would be more racially accurate. But who knows, they have half native and full Jewish motherfuckers operating near the top of their outfit. :lol:



Pedderrs said:


> Ruddock might be the most pronounced examples ever of a fighter falling in love with his power. He was given the nickname 'Razor' because of his slashing jab. It was compared to Larry Holmes' jab in the early days, and, to be fair, if you watch his fight with Mike Weaver then that's not as absurd as it sounds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, his jab was almost completely nonexistent in the Tyson fights amongst other things.I really didn't even think a rematch was warranted. He landed some good shots on Tyson coming in, a couple of counters that didn't hit the sweet spot but for the most part just took punishment and looked to hold on. Had him losing every round I think aside from maybe the sixth, with a KD in there (two of them officially).



Brnxhands said:


> Lol yeah i thought i hear you mention it before. I met Kevin levrone when i was 12 years old. An I was hooked. I was real big at 14. I was 5'9 then and im still a little over 5'9 now but i was bigger at 14 lol. I dont really care anymore. I still lift but I gotta watch. Over the years my shoulders got bad. I did alot of heavy ass behind the neck militarys.Laterals dont bother me so thats all my shoulder work.


Aren't you gonna hit 30 soon? Start caring. You love your booze too much though huh? :lol: :-( 27 comes in March and I'm not playing any games.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Yeah, his jab was almost completely nonexistent in the Tyson fights amongst other things.I really didn't even think a rematch was warranted. He landed some good shots on Tyson coming in, a couple of counters that didn't hit the sweet spot but for the most part just took punishment and looked to hold on. Had him losing every round I think aside from maybe the sixth, with a KD in there (two of them officially).


Ruddock thought he could blast everybody out with a half hook/half uppercut dubbed 'The Smash'. It was enough to decapitate Smith and Dokes, but you're going to need more than that against the likes of Tyson. One thing you can say about Tyson, even post-prison, is that he could hold a shot.



> lol maybe. tyson was findin him over top at will with the right hand in the second fight, looked like he figured him out until the dq


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## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> I don't understand why 'getting punched in the face' is considered a big deal. They wouldn't be a boxer if it concerned them that much. Getting punched in the face doesn't make you any more tired and I don't believe it hurts. Pain is perception and easily handled, it's fatigue that makes cowards of men. I think marathon runners are 'tougher' than boxers personally.


Let's look at it another way.

How many people do you see boxing for fun?


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## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Ruddock might be the most pronounced examples ever of a fighter falling in love with his power. He was given the nickname 'Razor' because of his slashing jab. It was compared to Larry Holmes' jab in the early days, and, to be fair, if you watch his fight with Mike Weaver then that's not as absurd as it sounds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah. Ruddock regressed as a fighter.


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## freelaw (May 20, 2013)

My dad is tougher than your dad.


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## Stiffjab (May 21, 2013)

freelaw said:


> My dad is tougher than your dad.


My grandad buttfucked your ancestors


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## freelaw (May 20, 2013)

Stiffjab said:


> My grandad buttfucked your ancestors


Your grandad was DP'd by a koala and a wombat.


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## Stiffjab (May 21, 2013)

freelaw said:


> Your grandad was DP'd by a koala and a wombat.


I'm not sure but I think I was bath salted this afternoon by a naked midget riding a pelican.


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## freelaw (May 20, 2013)

Stiffjab said:


> I'm not sure but I think I was bath salted this afternoon by a naked midget riding a pelican.


Them bathsalts are helluva drug.


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## Stiffjab (May 21, 2013)

freelaw said:


> Them bathsalts are helluva drug.


He said something about a zeitgeist and how doing what he said would mean I'm safe for now.

He made me do bad things to good people.....


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## freelaw (May 20, 2013)

Stiffjab said:


> He said something about a zeitgeist and how doing what he said would mean I'm safe for now.
> 
> He made me do bad things to good people.....


They often play in the NFL if you know what I mean.. They tell you you're safe for now and then boom goes the dynamite...


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## Stiffjab (May 21, 2013)

What's the time in Bulgaria? I need to make an important call to @Deal_With and tell him his mother called and said she knows he's not staying over at mine tonight like he told her.


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## superman1692 (Jun 3, 2013)

I'd figured it out! Dealt_with is Tiger Muhammad! Who incidentally is the son of Rakim Oaks.


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Damn right a marathon is mentally tougher than boxing. Running at the edge for 2+ hours is tougher than 12x3 minute rounds with breaks. Getting punched in the face isn't a big deal at all. I know pro boxers who think they're training 'hard' because they're running 10km. The hardest thing about boxing is making weight.


:lol:. I just ran for 3 hours last week. It takes mental strength. But to compare it to boxing is absurd and it shows you are a moron.

A better comparison to Boxing will be the first day of 'The Long Walk'.. in where if you stop you die.
Now that's a better mental comparison.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> The NRL contains very few world class athletes. Almost all NFL players are. Compare strength, compare 20/40yard or metre dash, compare vertical jump height. You think a population of Australia is going to produce a national competition on the level of the US/NFL? You're clueless.





bballchump11 said:


> athleticism wise the NBA has many great athletes that could have made good boxers if they started when they were young. If you want an athlete to switch over in their 20's then, I'd go with the NFL.


Not that it's really anything to do with the quotes, but this was God awful this afternoon. Couldn't of happened to a better Linebacker either.


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## 941jeremy (Jun 12, 2013)

I'd have to agree with Sir Charles. There are a large number of players who are just as tough as boxers. If you've ever played the sport then you'd know how mentally tough that you're required to be.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Not that it's really anything to do with the quotes, but this was God awful this afternoon. Couldn't of happened to a better Linebacker either.


damn man that hurt me physically


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> damn man that hurt me physically


He plays for a team I absolutely loathe too, but fuck that mess... He's probably the best inside linebacker in the NFL. atsch That shit kind of ruined my night.


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Glass Legs.


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