# Best footwork today?



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Who has the best footowork in these categories?

*Avoiding the ropes:*
*Cutting off the ring:*
*Creating offensive angles:*
*Quickest feet:*
*Lateral movement:*
*Economical:*


----------



## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Economical, is Andre Ward. The man stands in the pocket, avoids punches, and puts himself in position to punch. The movements are small, subtle, and effective.

Creating offensive angles: First name that came to mind was JMM. He's excellent at establishing just enough space and angle to land hard counters. 

Lateral movement: I think Rigo has officially taken this from Floyd. At this stage, he's just a little quicker.

Staying off the ropes: Also Rigo.

Quickest feet: Rigo.

Cutting off the ring is a tough one.

Edit: I like your call of GGG for cutting off the ring. I'll take it.


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

Avoiding the ropes: Rigo

A true ring magician


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

My picks

*Avoiding the ropes:*Rigondeaux
*Cutting off the ring:*Golovkin
*Creating offensive angles:*Pacquiao
*Quickest feet:*Pacquiao
*Lateral movement:*Bernard Hopkins
*Economical:*Mayweather


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> My picks
> 
> *Avoiding the ropes:*Rigondeaux
> *Cutting off the ring:*Golovkin
> ...


interesting you still think emmanuel has the quickest feet even after all those years of PED abuse caused his legs to cramp up for various fights?


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> Economical, is Andre Ward. The man stands in the pocket, avoids punches, and puts himself in position to punch. The movements are small, subtle, and effective.
> 
> Creating offensive angles: First name that came to mind was JMM. He's excellent at establishing just enough space and angle to land hard counters.
> 
> ...





Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> Avoiding the ropes: Rigo
> 
> A true ring magician


good picks. I thought about putting Marquez for offensive angles as well. I felt like he beat Pacquiao at his own game when they fought, but I decided to put Pacquiao there since that's pretty much his whole game


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> interesting you still think emmanuel has the quickest feet even after all those years of PED abuse caused his legs to cramp up for various fights?


:lol: I thought hard about it. I was about to put Gamboa there, but his feet have gotten a lot slower during his climb in weight. Bradley has pretty quick feet also and so does Andre Dirrell. They'd be my other picks to think about


----------



## McKay (Jun 6, 2012)

Cutting off the ring - Golovkin
Avoiding the ropes - Wlad
Economical - Hopkins
Creating offensive angles - JMM
Lateral Movement - Rigondeaux

Overall though it's probably still Floyd.


----------



## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> good picks. I thought about putting Marquez for offensive angles as well. I felt like he beat Pacquiao at his own game when they fought, but I decided to put Pacquiao there since that's pretty much his whole game


It's probably just a personal preference. Manny's success has been built on his scat attack offense. You just never knew where that guy was going to be.

I've always admired subtlety. JMM's feet never moved a mile a minute like Manny's, but he was always in position to throw back hard shots. Clean, simple. I think it is that simplicity that has helped him age well.


----------



## Duffy (Jun 13, 2013)

The Hayemaker.


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

McKay said:


> Cutting off the ring - Golovkin
> Avoiding the ropes - Wlad
> Economical - Hopkins
> Creating offensive angles - JMM
> ...


???


JeffJoiner said:


> It's probably just a personal preference. Manny's success has been built on his scat attack offense. You just never knew where that guy was going to be.
> 
> I've always admired subtlety. JMM's feet never moved a mile a minute like Manny's, but he was always in position to throw back hard shots. Clean, simple. I think it is that simplicity that has helped him age well.


in other words Juan got the textbook footwork


----------



## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> My picks
> 
> *Avoiding the ropes:*Rigondeaux
> *Cutting off the ring:*Golovkin
> ...


I think that's exactly what I would have posted.

:deal


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Who has the best footowork in these categories?
> 
> *Avoiding the ropes:*
> *Cutting off the ring:*
> ...


Good thread!

*Avoiding the ropes:* Rigondeaux
*Cutting off the ring:* Golovkin
*Creating offensive angles:* Ward
*Quickest feet:* Mayweather
*Lateral movement:* Marquez
*Economical:* Hopkins

EDIT: Ah shit I forgot Pacquiao existed. Put him in for quickest and creating offensive angles. Floyd is possibly as economical as BHop as well. JMM is also good for offensive angles.


----------



## Boxing Fanatic (Jun 5, 2013)

rigo broke donaires ankles


----------



## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> My picks
> 
> *Avoiding the ropes:*Rigondeaux
> *Cutting off the ring:*Golovkin
> ...


I'd have replied with this as well. I think Rigo has the flashiest footwork if that had its own category eg. the way he uses his feet to blatantly feint direction of movement; sort of like a derivative of the ali shuffle


----------



## Hook! (Jun 8, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> My picks
> 
> *Avoiding the ropes:*Rigondeaux
> *Cutting off the ring:*Golovkin
> ...


goooood picks, some up for debate of course


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

thanks for the input guys :good


----------



## NoNeck (Jun 7, 2013)

Who has the best footowork in these categories?

*Avoiding the ropes:* Rigo, Ward
*Cutting off the ring: GGG*
*Creating offensive angles: Floyd*
*Quickest feet: GGG, Rigo*
*Lateral movement: *Floyd
*Economical: Floyd, Rigo, BHop*


----------



## NoNeck (Jun 7, 2013)

Looks like GGG has it locked for cutting the ring off.


----------



## pipe wrenched (Jun 4, 2013)

Imo, economical is Hopkins :deal


----------



## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

Look at my avatar picture.


----------



## adamcanavan (Jun 5, 2012)

Avoiding ropes - rigo
Cutting off the ring - ggg
Creating offensive angles - lomachenko
Quickest Feet - Pacquaio
Lateral movement - lomachenko
Economical - rigo


----------



## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

adamcanavan said:


> Avoiding ropes - rigo
> Cutting off the ring - ggg
> Creating offensive angles - lomachenko
> Quickest Feet - Pacquaio
> ...


Lomachenko hasn't even turned pro yet. :haye


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Lunny said:


> Lomachenko hasn't even turned pro yet. :haye


:lol: yeah and a huge portion of footwork, especially lateral movement, is being able to sustain that foe 12 round


----------



## NoMas (Jun 7, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> My picks
> 
> *Avoiding the ropes:*Rigondeaux
> _*Cutting off the ring:*Golovkin
> ...


and colin hart (i pretty sure it was) said he had poor footwork before the macklin fight lol


----------



## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Pacquiao used to have amazing feet, not sure if they're still there now. I have 3 choices.

Offensive: golovkin - can literally cut the ring off in 3 steps.
Defensive: rigo - he ain't boring, he's just too quick to get pinned down.
Overall: Mayweather always seems to be exactly where he wants in the ring.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Pacquiao's footwork is hit and miss. It is certainly not among the best in the sport, that's for sure. Against lesser, often flat footed fighters Pacquiao is able to utilize his speed of foot and come in and out of range, setting up the counter punching opportunities (See Cotto fight). However, whenever Pacquiao faces a fighter who is more profound in the footwork department, he always comes up second best. 

Even against Mosley Pacquiao was not able to pin him down, simply because Shane knew that if he stepped to the left he would leave his opponent out of position. Against Timothy Bradley Pacquiao was constantly falling out of position into areas where he was not able to launch a counter attack. Bradley used the check hook to step the left and Pacquiao was unable to anticipate this. Finally, and probably the most clear indictment of Pacquiao's limitations in this department, the final fight with Marquez. Juan has always been able to trump Pacquiao in the footwork department, you always see Pacquiao off balance in their fights and you always see JMM rooted to the floor and ready to punch. In the moment that Pacquiao got knocked out cold, Marquez was able to position his foot outside of Pacquiao's and thus in a position to slip his leading right hand and deliver his own right hand back. You would never see someone like Rigondeaux or Mayweather do this because they always know where to position their feet in a way that suits them. 

My list looks something like this:

Avoiding ropes - Rigo
Cutting off the ring - Probably GGG even though he hasn't really faced that many fighters who show evasive lateral movement. Although I've always been impressed with his ring generalship since his amateur days. He did a good job of cutting off the ring against Dirrell, even though it's a fight he clearly lost.
Creating offensive angles - Marquez
Quickest Feet - Rigondeaux/Dirrell
Lateral movement - Mayweather. It isn't necessarily about how quickly someone can move around the ring. Floyd knows how to move and when to move.
Economical - Hopkins


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Cutting off the ring 
Avoiding the ropes 
Economical 
Creating offensive angles 
Lateral Movement"

No additions here. I just like that the category of "footwork" was thus broken down. It drive me crazy when some simply asks "who had the best footwork" as if it were just one thing.

--------------------------------

And one addition:

"Always balanced and thus ready to throw a supported punch, from either hand."

- This is REALLY important, and not at all the same as "Creating offensive angles." Most fighters lose their support when they move backwards. A few very special ones do not.

Two guys really stand out to me: Whittaker (The all-time and forever master) and Mathysee. Guys who deserve "honorable mention: Golovkin, and (screw the haters and damn the torpedoes) Wilder. Jmm is probably up there, as well.

Actually, I'm not so sure about Golovkin. He so rarely backs up that it's hard to judge.


----------



## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

I wouldn't really put Rigo in economical


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Lunny said:


> Lomachenko hasn't even turned pro yet. :haye


You don't just lose this shit when you turn pro...






He is a master


----------



## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> You don't just lose this shit when you turn pro...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't get me wrong, Lomachenko is class, but he's never even set foot in a professional ring. The difference is huge.

Sure he'll probably be a world champion in the next few years but let's not jump the gun here. What's next? Ranking him P4P before he even makes his debut?


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

The difference is far less than people think. Guys like Selimov, Bashenov and Valentino are paper title level guys in the pro game.


----------



## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

The difference is enough that it should be proven, not assumed.

Let's see how he copes turning pro before assuming anything.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

^ Slick & White !

Lomachenko definitely has the Whittaker-patented gazelle movement when backing up. However, IMO he's just a little off-balance when he throws on the inside. He leans forward a tad more than he should, and that is 1: costing him power and 2: leaving his head exposed for just a hair longer than ideal.

I'm being really picky, but this is correct.


----------



## Hook! (Jun 8, 2012)

Lunny said:


> Don't get me wrong, Lomachenko is class, but he's never even set foot in a professional ring. The difference is huge.
> 
> Sure he'll probably be a world champion in the next few years but let's not jump the gun here. What's next? Ranking him P4P before he even makes his debut?


:rofl


----------



## Gunner (Jun 4, 2013)

TBF it wouldn't be wrong to put Rigo for all of them. The mans footwork is simply astounding, his measuring of distance, footspeed, use of angles, balance, are all nothing short of magnificent. His half-steps in and out of range are sublime. The man is the human version of silk.

(started working on some gifs today will probably post somer lengthy shit about him tomorrow)


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Rigondeaux.


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Lunny said:


> Don't get me wrong, Lomachenko is class, but he's never even set foot in a professional ring. The difference is huge.
> 
> Sure he'll probably be a world champion in the next few years but let's not jump the gun here. What's next? Ranking him P4P before he even makes his debut?[/


Apparently, yes :lol:


----------



## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

Avoiding the ropes: Rigo
Cutting off the ring: Golovkin
Creating offensive angles: JMM
Quickest feet: Rigo
Lateral movement: Rigo
Economical: Ward

Simply put Rigo is a beast.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Floyd's looks so poetic


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Nobody but Bernard. BERNARD.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Nobody but Bernard. BERNARD.


Rigo, brudder. :verysad Bernard right there.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Rigo, brudder. :verysad Bernard right there.


He circles a natural counter-puncher successfully and all of a sudden he's surpassed BHop? Never :bart


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> He circles a natural counter-puncher successfully and all of a sudden he's surpassed BHop? Never :bart


Surpassed as in like, Surpassed!? No :lol: Just currently, like atm..


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Thabisco Michunu: I don't know much about him, but he looked great against Eddie Chambers. I guess one can't be considered to have GREAT footwork without a long list of top-tier wins, but still, I was really impressed.


Luke Campbell: Same caveat. Hard to say after only three pro fights, but he moves really well, both offensively & defensively.


Joe Hanks also has darned good footwork, as HW's go.



- And let's not forget Wlad Klitschko: The way he constantly dances around the rules & gets away with it is nothing short of a wonderment. :smile


----------



## Carpe Diem (Jun 6, 2013)

Rigo. He's comfortable at every spot inside the ring. He's never been off-balance either.


----------



## Carpe Diem (Jun 6, 2013)

2:40


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Surpassed as in like, Surpassed!? No :lol: Just currently, like atm..


Did Hopkins die or something? Did I miss something? Or are both still alive and well "atm"?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Carpe Diem said:


> 2:40


I love that clip.


----------



## Rigondeaux (Jun 3, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I love that clip.


I like to see Casita on team Rigondeaux


----------



## NoNeck (Jun 7, 2013)

Floyd's footwork is better than Rigo's based on Rigo getting dropped by Donaire. I've been waiting well over a decade for that to happen to Floyd.


----------



## Rigondeaux (Jun 3, 2013)

NoNeck said:


> Floyd's footwork is better than Rigo's based on Rigo getting dropped by Donaire. I've been waiting well over a decade for that to happen to Floyd.


To be fair that knockdown came from Donaire punching out of the clinch, not from bad footwork. Rigo was waiting for the ref to separate them


----------



## NoNeck (Jun 7, 2013)

Rigondeaux said:


> To be fair that knockdown came from Donaire punching out of the clinch, not from bad footwork. Rigo was waiting for the ref to separate them


Protect yourself at all times. It's no coincidence that Ortiz got knocked out by Floyd instead of vice versa.


----------



## Carpe Diem (Jun 6, 2013)

NoNeck said:


> Floyd's footwork is better than Rigo's based on Rigo getting dropped by Donaire. I've been waiting well over a decade for that to happen to Floyd.


Come on, man. Floyd is my favorite boxer, but there are things that he doesn't do as well as other boxers. Rigo is a better pure technician than Floyd.


----------



## hermit (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> :lol: I thought hard about it. I was about to put Gamboa there, but his feet have gotten a lot slower during his climb in weight


Gamboa is just showing his age since his "anti-aging" clinic got busted.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Did Hopkins die or something? Did I miss something? Or are both still alive and well "atm"?


No, he's still amongst the best.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> No, he's still amongst the best.


Hopkins is alive and on top, right, we agree :good


----------



## hermit (Jun 4, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> It's probably just a personal preference. Manny's success has been built on his scat attack offense. You just never knew where that guy was going to be.


JMM knew at least once.....


----------



## NoNeck (Jun 7, 2013)

Carpe Diem said:


> Come on, man. Floyd is my favorite boxer, but there are things that he doesn't do as well as other boxers. Rigo is a better pure technician than Floyd.


I think you might be confusing quick feet with good footwork. Look at how Floyd outmanuevered Juan Marquez, who also has great footwork. Rigo's feet are quicker, but I see no evidence that he has better footwork than Floyd and he lacks the body of work. Rigo is one my favorites btw.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Hopkins is alive and on top, right, we agree :good


In some facets sure, but at this point, I think Rigo's athletic gifts and the way he supplements them into his overall technique is a bit too overwhelming, brilliant as Bernard still is at 48.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> In some facets sure, but at this point, I think Rigo's athletic gifts and the way he supplements them into his overall technique is a bit too overwhelming, brilliant as Bernard still is at 48.


I've thought it over and might agree with your analysis even before I read it :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I've thought it over and might agree with your analysis even before I read it :lol:


:lol: :-(

I've been binge watching Toney fights the last couple days. Who needs elite footwork :ibutt

It may be my least favorite aspect of the sport honestly, despite it's unquestionable value and importance. Seriously mayne, Give me Bernard of the Trinidad fight and now you're talking some GOAT level stuff. He's never needed physical gifts, but he wasn't exactly lacking there either in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Floyd's looks so poetic


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol: :-(
> 
> I've been binge watching Toney fights the last couple days. Who needs elite footwork :ibutt


:lol: War stationary slicksters! :ibutt



Hands of Iron said:


> It may be my least favorite aspect of the sport honestly, despite it's unquestionable value and importance. Seriously mayne, Give me Bernard of the Trinidad fight and now you're talking some GOAT level stuff. He's never needed physical gifts, but he wasn't exactly lacking there either in the grand scheme of things.


I find that so funny, because it's probably my most appreciated quality :smile I suppose I'm easily impressed with offensive and defensive angles, ring generalship, and balance. It all starts at the feet after all, it facilitates everything else, so when someone can be masterful _and_ innovative, I'm instantly impressed. I guess that's why I give JMM and Hopkins and Duran so much love.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> :lol: War stationary slicksters! :ibutt


That's quotable, man! :lol:

I used to have a bunch of career sets I bought back in 2009 that I lent to a friend, Toney was one of them. His house got broken into and all of my shit stolen along with his tv, Xbox, etc. :verysad These days though there is so much shit that's been uploaded to YouTube that makes it extremely convenient.



> And that so funny, because it's probably my most appreciated quality :smile I suppose I'm easily impressed with offensive and defensive angles, ring generalship, and balance. It all starts at the feet after all, it facilitates everything else, so when someone can be masterful _and_ innovative, I'm instantly impressed. I guess that's why I give JMM and Hopkins and Duran so much love.


I think its cause mine was pretty shit. :lol: I'm actually pretty fleet footed for a wb, but mastering coordination, balance, positioning and placement, etc is no small task. The level these guys do it at is simply surreal and we just chat shit about it like nothing.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> That's quotable, man! :lol:
> 
> I used to have a bunch of career sets I bought back in 2009 that I lent to a friend, Toney was one of them. His house got broken into and all of my shit stolen along with his tv, Xbox, etc. :verysad These days though there is so much shit that's been uploaded to YouTube that makes it extremely convenient.
> 
> I think its cause mine was pretty shit. :lol: I'm actually pretty fleet footed for a wb, but mastering coordination, balance, positioning and placement, etc is no small task. The level these guys do it at is simply surreal and we just chat shit about it like nothing.


I'll be stalking the Toney posts you've made in the last few days to revisit his career, what a fighter.

Yeah it's surreal how seamless they make it all come together. Which is why the best of the best are just otherworldly.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I'll be stalking the Toney posts you've made in the last few days to revisit his career, what a fighter.
> 
> Yeah it's surreal how seamless they make it all come together. Which is why the best of the best are just otherworldly.


Yeah, JMP posted a thread on his slurring speech yesterday (which he's always sort of had) that was turned into almost a tribute thread of sorts. :lol:

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...es-Toney-before-Prizefighter-tournament/page2


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Yeah, JMP posted a thread on his slurring speech yesterday (which he's always sort of had) that was turned into almost a tribute thread of sorts. :lol:
> 
> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...es-Toney-before-Prizefighter-tournament/page2


Yeah, part of me thinks it's bad, part of me kind of thinks he was always somewhat unintelligible.

Good job getting up to your old tricks and hijacking threads. It's what you do best.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah, part of me thinks it's bad, part of me kind of thinks he was always somewhat unintelligible.
> 
> Good job getting up to your old tricks and hijacking threads. It's what you do best.


Yes, but it's all BOXING baby. :happy


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Yes, but it's all BOXING baby. :happy


:yep

Ladies and gentlemen and other, he's back!


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> :yep
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen and other, he's back!


Wellz if you really want a quick revisit of his 160-168 days my favorites would be

Iran Barkley (challenging for Iran's 168 strap, TOTAL domination Floyd-Gatti style but better and against a more dangerous opponent)

Mike McCallum I (One of the greatest fights in boxing history against an aging ATG who still came in with a 42-1 record, a defeat he avenged and Toney as a 5-2 underdog; James took this in the championship rounds IMO)

Michael Nunn (As a 20-1 underdog against 36-0 P4P #2 in Nunn's home town; all-time comeback KO triumph to win MW title)

Tim Littles (24-0, Top 5 SMW contender, drama breaks out when Toney's badly cut in the third and he has to rise to the occasion)

Prince Charles Williams/Reggie Johnson (tie) (Perhaps his greatest "Lights Out" KO or a close one against a top 29-1 MW challenger less than two months after winning it against Nunn -- who actually puts Toney on the canvas early!)

:deal


----------



## Mattaru (Oct 13, 2013)

*Hugging: *Presenting, the heavyweight champion of the world, it's Wladimirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Klitschkooooooooo!


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I miss this guy


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I miss this guy


Me too :-(


----------



## bobalachko (Jun 20, 2013)

*Avoiding the ropes: Rigo
Cutting off the ring: Golovkin*
*Creating offensive angles: Sergio*
*Quickest feet: Mayweather*
*Lateral movement:*Hopkins
*Economical:* Wlad


----------



## techks (Jun 4, 2013)

TBH, everyone looks great shadowboxing or hitting the bag. Floyd really shined with his footwork against Hernandez, DLH, Baldomir, Canelo, Mosley, really most of his fights and every big win.

Avoiding ropes: Rigo. Martinez when healthy but not as masterful/technical.
Cutting ring: How many people actually do this well. Think about it. Its a dying art. GGG but he doesn't impress me there much. Personal opinion.
Offensive angles: JMM
Quickest: Pacquiao
Lateral: Cant go wrong with either Hops, Floyd, Ward or Rigo
Economical: Hopkins, Ward

Great thread


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Canelo for each category. The Reynoso's have done a remarkable job developing Canelo's footwork.


----------



## Drew101 (Jun 30, 2012)

Wild card choice for cutting off the ring: Shinsuke Yamanaka. Shin's pretty good off the back foot, too.


----------



## DaveyBoyEssexUK (Jun 8, 2013)

Frankie Gavin


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

techks said:


> TBH, everyone looks great shadowboxing or hitting the bag. Floyd really shined with his footwork against Hernandez, DLH, Baldomir, Canelo, Mosley, really most of his fights and every big win.
> 
> Avoiding ropes: Rigo. Martinez when healthy but not as masterful/technical.
> Cutting ring: How many people actually do this well. Think about it. Its a dying art. GGG but he doesn't impress me there much. Personal opinion.
> ...


yeah good point. I was looking at some fighter's shadowboxing so I could help refine my technique and found that one. I just thought Floyd looked so smooth in it. Here's a good one of Zab






I like watching fighter's train because that's when you get to see their technique at their most perfect and get to see more of their arsenal of weapons and how they drill them. @Bogotazo and @O59 and @SJS20 do yall ever do that?


----------



## Pimp C (Jun 3, 2013)

Avoiding the ropes: Rigo
Cutting off the ring: Not sure
Creating offensive angles: JMM
Quickest feet: Rigo
Lateral movement: Rigo
Economical:Ward Hopkins PBF


----------



## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

Carpe Diem said:


> 2:40


I have Rigo down as the best in 3 of those categories but that was simply amazing.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah good point. I was looking at some fighter's shadowboxing so I could help refine my technique and found that one. I just thought Floyd looked so smooth in it. Here's a good one of Zab
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Definitely BBall, you can see them work on things in a more pure form, out of the context of an opponent. It's why training clips and mitt work are always like candy to me.


----------



## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

Pimp C said:


> Avoiding the ropes: Rigo
> Cutting off the ring: Not sure
> Creating offensive angles: JMM
> Quickest feet: Rigo
> ...


Cutting off the ring - Provodnikov, Kovalev, Golovkin, Cotto, Matthysse, Ward, Canelo are just a few names that spring instantly to mind, i agree with the Rigo picks though.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Definitely BBall, you can see them work on things in a more pure form, out of the context of an opponent. It's why training clips and mitt work are always like candy to me.


I got a new video for you to post in your boxer's demonstration's thread :hey


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I got a new video for you to post in your boxer's demonstration's thread :hey


:ibutt Post it!

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...ead-of-Fighters-Breaking-Down-Their-Technique

I'll definitely be taking a look after class. I love me some Ward.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> :ibutt Post it!
> 
> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...ead-of-Fighters-Breaking-Down-Their-Technique
> 
> I'll definitely be taking a look after class. I love me some Ward.


:yep I actually haven't watched it yet myself. I'm trying to but my friend is on the phone


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> :yep I actually haven't watched it yet myself. I'm trying to but my friend is on the phone


Darn friend. :verysad

I'll post it and hope it's not a sex tape. What a twist that would be.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Darn friend. :verysad
> 
> I'll post it and hope it's not a sex tape. What a twist that would be.


:lol: that'd be crazy if it was


----------



## techks (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah good point. I was looking at some fighter's shadowboxing so I could help refine my technique and found that one. I just thought Floyd looked so smooth in it. Here's a good one of Zab
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Love looking at Hopkins shadowbox so you're not alone. You cant really see his feet in this video but the way he moves looks so nautural.






These great too.


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

techks said:


> Love looking at Hopkins shadowbox so you're not alone. You cant really see his feet in this video but the way he moves looks so nautural.


Check out Bernard after he injures his right shoulder in his second fight with Antwun Echols from 31:12 until the end of that round.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

techks said:


> Love looking at Hopkins shadowbox so you're not alone. You cant really see his feet in this video but the way he moves looks so nautural.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These are real nice

I do a move just like this at 3:57 :smile 





at :29


----------



## techks (Jun 4, 2013)

Very fast hands if thats you. (In Virgil Hunter rape whisper) "That bag is ready to be whupped"


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

yeah that's me, don't tell anybody though  :yep thanks


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Darn friend. :verysad
> 
> I'll post it and hope it's not a sex tape. What a twist that would be.


holy shit man. i'm watching it now and it's really good. Andre Ward is so smart

edit: There's so much to talk about.






@JMP Ward mentions something we've been saying about Canelo all the time and his footwork at 12:32

@SJS20 He mentions feinting at 5:42 and how he uses them

@Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) he talks about Floyd's stab to the stomach at 3:22


----------



## Pimp C (Jun 3, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> These are real nice
> 
> I do a move just like this at 3:57 :smile
> 
> ...


Very sharp cuz. I knew you had good hand speed from your shadow boxing at the family re union but this enforces it. Keep up the great work.:cheers


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Pimp C said:


> Very sharp cuz. I knew you had good hand speed from your shadow boxing at the family re union but this enforces it. Keep up the great work.:cheers


thanks man  I was out of shape then from all the McDonalds :yep, but I'm going hard now


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> holy shit man. i'm watching it now and it's really good. Andre Ward is so smart
> 
> edit: There's so much to talk about.
> 
> ...


I went through a phase where I'd watch everything like this, over and over till I had the concept nailed, I'd then go to the gym and practice.

I think I over did it, I use tribute videos more so now, just to get motivated to fight really, literally just came across this beauty...


----------



## techks (Jun 4, 2013)

SJS! Good to see you man we haven't talked in a while. Was I just some cheap whore to you? Jk


----------



## Masters (May 20, 2013)

Danny Garcia.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> I went through a phase where I'd watch everything like this, over and over till I had the concept nailed, I'd then go to the gym and practice.
> 
> I think I over did it, I use tribute videos more so now, just to get motivated to fight really, literally just came across this beauty...


Yeah I'm kinda on the stage right now myself with practicing the stuff over and over. I remember you saying though that you didn't do it at full intensity though.

I'm still developing too and trying to learn the right way, but if you drill these things over and over at fight speed just enough for you to rely on it in a fight, then I think you should be good. I've seen different philosophies from different trainers.

Idk if one is wrong or if it's just different ways of teaching

that video is real nice btw :good


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

techks said:


> SJS! Good to see you man we haven't talked in a while. Was I just some cheap whore to you? Jk


I've been here a little more lately, matey. Hope you're alright! We'll be chatting a little more from now on, stopped posting really when I started to train six days a week, it was all the Boxing I could take. I've cut to three days for now, and I'm finding this place pretty therapeutic...


bballchump11 said:


> Yeah I'm kinda on the stage right now myself with practicing the stuff over and over. I remember you saying though that you didn't do it at full intensity though.
> 
> I'm still developing too and trying to learn the right way, but if you drill these things over and over at fight speed just enough for you to rely on it in a fight, then I think you should be good. I've seen different philosophies from different trainers.
> 
> Idk if one is wrong or if it's just different ways of teaching


I never used to do much at speed, just work on the form and use my mind to envision scenarios where it could go right, and go wrong, then re-act to that. Always favored the idea of being mentally prepared, calm. Now I up the speed, working in layers mate, start out watching the form, gradually repeating at greater speed, first just light and quick, ending with full power and then going down through the gears, finishing at the same slow pace I started.

Everyone's different, I just wanted to be conscious that I wasn't drilling the wrong thing. Get it right, then speed it up.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> I've been here a little more lately, matey. Hope you're alright! We'll be chatting a little more from now on, stopped posting really when I started to train six days a week, it was all the Boxing I could take. I've cut to three days for now, and I'm finding this place pretty therapeutic...
> 
> I never used to do much at speed, just work on the form and use my mind to envision scenarios where it could go right, and go wrong, then re-act to that. Always favored the idea of being mentally prepared, calm. Now I up the speed, working in layers mate, start out watching the form, gradually repeating at greater speed, first just light and quick, ending with full power and then going down through the gears, finishing at the same slow pace I started.
> 
> Everyone's different, I just wanted to be conscious that I wasn't drilling the wrong thing. Get it right, then speed it up.


sounds really good to me :good I may try to do more of that myself


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> @JMPWard mentions something we've been saying about Canelo all the time and his footwork at 12:32


Ward and Hunter know their stuff.

It's mind boggling how the root of Canelo's technical problems lie in his flawed footwork, yet even after getting schooled at the Floyd Mayweather Boxing University, they continue to stand in one place and bang away with flashy combinations. No top 154/160 pounder is going to stand there like Josesito Lopez and allow Canelo to unload like that with 10-punch combinations. Don't they realize how limited he is on his feet? Actually, it probably shows how limited they are at training fighters. He needs to get the fuck out of there ASAP.


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Smitty mentioned Mike McCallum to Andre Ward in that video when they were discussing the jab to the stomach. Here's the feature he was talking about.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JMP said:


> Smitty mentioned Mike McCallum to Andre Ward in that video when they were discussing the jab to the stomach. Here's the feature he was talking about.


Mike McCallum was part of a handful of fights that could make the short list of being the most skilled ever. Mike McCallum is on the short list of the most skilled fighters ever. McCallum-Toney I & II, McCallum-Curry, McCallum-Graham, McCallum-Kalambay I & II. What he did to Julian Jackson and Michael Watson was fucking incredible too.


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Mike McCallum was part of a handful of fights that could make the short list of being the most skilled ever. Mike McCallum is on the short list of the most skilled fighters ever. McCallum-Toney I & II, McCallum-Curry, McCallum-Graham, McCallum-Kalambay I & II. What he did to Julian Jackson and Michael Watson was fucking incredible too.


Good shouts. McCallum has definitely had his share of masterclass fights with other great/underrated technicians. What strikes me about these type of fights is not just the wide array of skills these guys had or their technique, but also their relaxation levels and fluidity. A lot of the better technicians now (not to take anything away from them), look robotic and rigid by comparison. McCallum, Toney, and the like make it look almost effortless at times the way their whip their punches out, roll, slip, duck, and counter. "Naturals" as Toney would say and as you alluded to a couple days back, I believe.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JMP said:


> Good shouts. McCallum has definitely had his share of masterclass fights with other great/underrated technicians. What strikes me about these type of fights is not just the wide array of skills these guys had or their technique, but also their relaxation levels and fluidity. A lot of the better technicians now (not to take anything away from them), look robotic and rigid by comparison. McCallum, Toney, and the like make it look almost effortless at times the way their whip their punches out, roll, slip, duck, and counter. "Naturals" as Toney would say and as you alluded to a couple days back, I believe.


 Those two guys respect the hell out of eachother and that's a beautiful thing to see because, well, you know how James can be.

McCallum on Toney:

*Best overall: James Toney*_ -- He wasn't a complete fighter the first time we fought, and I still believe I won that fight. But he learned in that fight and he got better. He grew with each fight. By our third fight, he was a different fighter, a complete fighter. He was someone who could do it all, fight inside or outside, work offense and defense at the same time, just like me when I was younger. I like to think that I helped James mature as a fighter._

Toney on McCallum:

*Best Overall: Mike McCallum*_ -- That's an easy choice, right off the top of my head it's the Body Snatcher. He was the best fighter I fought at middleweight, super middleweight and cruiserweight. Out of all the fighters I fought, I respect him the most because he made me think about everything I tried to do. Before McCallum I was just runnin' in on everyone, but he made me slow down and think for the first time.

*Best Boxer: McCallum* -- Yup, it's him again. It's between McCallum and Michael Nunn, but I gotta go with McCallum because he was a master boxer who wasn't afraid to stand his ground. Nunn was mostly fast. I admit that he outboxed me for about nine rounds, but my body shots slowed him down. I told him during the fight 'I'm gonna catch you!' And I did.

*Smartest: McCallum: Come on, who do you think it is? Who's the one fighter I truly respect? You got it, the Body Snatcher, Mike McCallum*. I fought my share of boxers who thought they were clever like Roy Jones, Michael Nunn, Montell Griffin, and Reggie Johnson, but they were all scared to really fight. McCallum boxed, he fought, he defended, and he didn't run all over the ring. He could do all that because he was smart._

I believe McCallum's reasoning re: Roy Jones was that he was a little too old (understatement of the century, not to mention it being at fucking Light Heavyweight) while Toney said it was because he had to drop 44 lbs in six weeks. Nine rounds is bullshit tho and he short changing himself, he won 8, 9, 10 very clearly.

@Bogotazo :rofl :yep


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Those two guys respect the hell out of eachother and that's a beautiful thing to see because, well, you know how James can be.
> 
> McCallum on Toney:
> 
> ...


:lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> :lol:


My hands are clean, I didn't bring the topic back up bruh. :smile Best believe I will pounce all over that shit though.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

The topic is footwork and the likes of McCallum and fucking James Toney are dominating the 8th page. :rofl :lol:

I'm sorry @bballchump11


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

HOI strikes again.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> HOI strikes again.


Did you even bother to read the above posts though? :bart This stuff is much more exciting than anything going on today. :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JMP said:


> Good shouts. McCallum has definitely had his share of masterclass fights with other great/underrated technicians. What strikes me about these type of fights is not just the wide array of skills these guys had or their technique, but also their relaxation levels and fluidity. A lot of the better technicians now (not to take anything away from them), look robotic and rigid by comparison. McCallum, Toney, and the like make it look almost effortless at times the way their whip their punches out, roll, slip, duck, and counter. "Naturals" as Toney would say and as you alluded to a couple days back, I believe.


It was actually amazing how difficult it was for fighters to land clean with any type of consistency on McCallum considering he was naturally pretty flat footed and come forward -- he had nice little economical movements and angles he'd take to get out of range after exchanges, was rarely ever squared up, constantly moving his upper body... Superb Ring IQ, great body punching (no shit), jab, accuracy. Some people find him a bit boring, but he's one of my all time favorite 'technicians'. @PityTheFool is the biggest fan of his I know on here.

Oh yeah, absolute first class Iron Chined Warrior.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> HOI strikes again.


I'll fuck off for a while, I think. :deal :lol:


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> holy shit man. i'm watching it now and it's really good. Andre Ward is so smart
> 
> edit: There's so much to talk about.
> 
> ...


that video made me like boxing even more

Andre has become one of those guys you must be a fan of if you're into the science of boxing


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Did you even bother to read the above posts though? :bart This stuff is much more exciting than anything going on today. :lol:


Of course, the whole thing! Shame HOI, why wouldn't I.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Of course, the whole thing! Shame HOI, why wouldn't I.


Cause nobody likes my classic fighters or wants to talk about them. :verysad I'm giving Toney and McCallum love because I don't really consider them much beneath the likes of the Fab 5 (including Benitez), Pea, Chavez, et al. in an ability sense especially and you can only talk those guys so much. Only PityTheFool and @turbotime will willingly put in effort with it, and they're fighting. JMP and the cobra with a bit of a push.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> It was actually amazing how difficult it was for fighters to land clean with any type of consistency on McCallum considering he was naturally pretty flat footed and come forward -- he had nice little economical movements and angles he'd take to get out of range after exchanges, was rarely ever squared up, constantly moving his upper body... Superb Ring IQ, great body punching (no shit), jab, accuracy. Some people find him a bit boring, but he's one of my all time favorite 'technicians'. @PityTheFool is the biggest fan of his I know on here.
> 
> Oh yeah, absolute first class Iron Chined Warrior.


Perfectly put mate.I honestly believe that McCallum would've caught up with Tommy at 154 and I think he could've gave Marvin hell too.
He was much,much more than a great body puncher.He had a complete package and made it look easy.

He's not underrated by people who know their stuff,but he should be a household name.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> that video made me like boxing even more
> 
> Andre has become one of those guys you must be a fan of if you're into the science of boxing


yeah man, he's just so damn smart, charismatic and happy to explain and break things down for us fans. That's what makes him a good commentator like Paulie and Roy, but Ward has more dimensions to his game than those two.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Here's an old post I made from ESB and why I voted Mayweather number 1 for economical footwork:

And Mayweather Ortiz showed very good subtle footwork by Floyd. Not too much movement, but precise and well educated foot placement.









Floyd throws his lead right here, and moves right foot to the right a little and he comes up at a whole different angle.









Floyd moves his left foot to the left outside of Ortiz's right foot so he can get the right position of his straight right









Ortiz comes at Floyd and Floyd is able to move and avoid Ortiz to set up his counter right hand as Ortiz charges in









again Ortiz charges in and Floyd moves back at an angles to set up the lead right









This is just like the first one









Floyd ducks below to avoid Ortiz's punch and pivots so he doesn't pop up at the same spot and to keep Ortiz off balance


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Cause nobody likes my classic fighters or wants to talk about them. :verysad I'm giving Toney and McCallum love because I don't really consider them much beneath the likes of the Fab 5 (including Benitez), Pea, Chavez, et al. in an ability sense especially and you can only talk those guys so much. Only PityTheFool and @turbotime will willingly put in effort with it, and they're fighting. JMP and the cobra with a bit of a push.


They're fighting! What now?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> They're fighting! What now?


Third degree Burnz

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?25425-ricky-burns/page5


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Third degree Burnz
> 
> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?25425-ricky-burns/page5


:-(


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

JMP said:


> Ward and Hunter know their stuff.
> 
> It's mind boggling how the root of Canelo's technical problems lie in his flawed footwork, yet even after getting schooled at the Floyd Mayweather Boxing University, they continue to stand in one place and bang away with flashy combinations. No top 154/160 pounder is going to stand there like Josesito Lopez and allow Canelo to unload like that with 10-punch combinations. Don't they realize how limited he is on his feet? Actually, it probably shows how limited they are at training fighters. He needs to get the fuck out of there ASAP.


Yeah man it's funny, right when Ward was talking, I got this exact video stuck in my head. Damn Canelo is so skilled and explosive, but damn man. It's like he's wearing some 50 pound shoes






He doesn't have to be exceptionally quick on his feet or even more that much. He just needs to learn how to use them. They need to bring in another coach into that camp ASAP or Canelo just needs to drop them all together. They have nothing left to they can teach him


----------

