# Check Hook Boxing's Mexican Tribute page



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Thought i'd continue the theme from the other site, where we can debate, watch and rank some of Mexico's finest hero's from years gone by:good

This is something i wrote the other site:

Julio Cesar Chavez

sex: male
birth date: 1962-07-12
division: light welterweight
stance: orthodox
height: 5′ 7½″ / 171cm
reach: 68″ / 173cm
alias:	J.C.
country: Mexico
residence: Culiacan, Sinaloa, Mexico
birth place:	Ciudad Obregon, Sonora, Mexico
birth name: Julio Cesar Chavez Gonzalez

won 107 (KO 86) + lost 6 (KO 4) + drawn 2 = 115
rounds boxed 633 KO% 74.78

Julio Cesar Chavez, the ultimate Mexican hero, had the longest unbeaten streak in boxing. He grew in Culiacan, Mexico and has always been a very sporty/athletic lad. At school he would play football and baseball, come home and play volleyball in the evening before going to the boxing gym at night, mainly because his two elder brothers didn't want him to box so he had to wait til they had finished in the gym before he could go in. Growing up there wasn't a big boxing scene in Culiacan so he asked his fathers permission whether he could pursue his dream and go to Tijuana where greater oppotunities await him. Growing up Julio's father worked on the railroad and they lived in a small shack at the side of the track and upon leaving he promised his mother he wouldn't return until he had brought her a new home. He first got really noticed when his manager contacted the president of the WBC and asked for Chavez to fight for the vacant title. He was ranked in 6th or 7th but was moved up to 2nd when Suliaman was deemed to think the fighters above him were only there because of their names. Before the fight Chavez had finished his mothers new house. At 33-1-2, Mario Martinez was a tricky boxer and was the slight favourite going in, but chavez stopped at the end of the 8th.
After winning his first title and returning home he brought his father a gold bracelet with his name on with diamond studs. It was stolen 1 day when nodding off on the train a gang set to him and threw him off the train, leaving him paralyzed down the left side of his body. Chavez would often joke with him, holding $100 bills above his left hand, so his father would try his utmost to try and grab them.

Chavez made 9 defence's of his WBC super feather title against the likes of Ruben Castillo, Roger Mayweather in 2 rounds and Juan La Porte.

In his debut at Lightweight he fought the hard hitting and, P4P one of the biggest punchers of the 80's, Edwin Rosario.



















If you like pressure fighting this is a must see fight. It was also in this fight that his red head band became famous. It was said that Rosario's mother was a witch and cast a spell over Chavez so he wore the headband to fight off evil spirits.
Chavez continued to wreck through the division and again moved up, to 140 to become a 3 weight world champion. It was in a unification fight (IBF/WBC) with Meldrick Taylor that Chavez is most well remembered. With taylor up on the cards but had been beaten throughout Chavez manages to stop him with 4 seconds left on the clock, some people claim it was an unfair stoppage but not for me, he was completely gone on his feet and Richard Steele made a good call IMO.






Chavez continued in his usual form, dominating Puerto Rican loud mouth Hector Camacho
























He then desroyed American Greg Haughen in front of a record (i think) 106,000 (correct me if im wrong, its off the top of my head) and fought ATG Pernall Whittaker to a controvsial draw.

Then it came, the streak has ended 89-0-1. Frankall Randall has shocked the world, beating Chavez and knocking him down for the first time in his career although beat him in his next fight in the re-match and following that with a TKO8 win over former opponent Meldick Taylor.

In his bid to become a 4 weigh world champ Chavez was held to a draw with Miguel Angel Gonzales and a 4th round TKO loss to rising star Oscar De La Hoya, Chavez was badly cut in sparring and shouldn't really have fought as the cut was re-opened almost straight away. Chavez earned $9million for this fight which was more than Don King paid him his whole Career. In the Re-match Chavez retired on his stool on at the end of the 8th round.

Winding down his Career Chavez lost to Ricky Hatton victim Kostya Tszyu and won the Rubber match with Frankie Randall.

Chavez holds the record for the most World title fights, 37 and was inducted into the Boxing Hall of Fame in 2011

Boxing has much to owe the ever exciting Julio Cesar Chavez, awesome fighter


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Feel free to add anything, whether it be articles or footage you wish to share:good


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Just been watching* Vicente Saldivar Vs Howard Winstone I*

''Sawed Off Marciano they call him'' :lol: cracked me up






Has anyone seen the interview in the last 3 minutes, saying quite a few ringside felt he won the fight, far from it IMO, unless it's my rose tinted glasses:yep


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

You know much about Juan Zuita LP, I been hoping to read up on him and maybes watch some fights but can only find 9 mins of the Wolgast fight. He has a quality record with some good scalps on there.


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

no mate not really, i'll have a dig around see if i can find something:good


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Great stuff LP, I'm doing a piece for the front page which focuses heavily on Ruben Olivares, gunna get it done over the next few days like, might even be tonight if I'm not up to anything, I'll post the link in here as it's a linked topic.

Chavez was so good as a boxer imo, which he didn't usually get rated for, because of his action packed style. He had a good defense and good footwork, his right cross was clearly his best punch imo, and it was very short, hurtful, and accurate. A lot was made of his left hook downstairs, and with good reason, but that right cross was even more potent.


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Great post LP, lets hope you can make it as good as the Mexican thread you had over on ESB:good


----------



## WritingPride (Jun 6, 2012)

Teeto said:


> Great stuff LP, I'm doing a piece for the front page which focuses heavily on Ruben Olivares, gunna get it done over the next few days like, might even be tonight if I'm not up to anything, I'll post the link in here as it's a linked topic.
> 
> Chavez was so good as a boxer imo, which he didn't usually get rated for, because of his action packed style. He had a good defense and good footwork, his right cross was clearly his best punch imo, and it was very short, hurtful, and accurate. A lot was made of his left hook downstairs, and with good reason, but that right cross was even more potent.


Olivares? Looking forward to seeing that.


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

WritingPride said:


> Olivares? Looking forward to seeing that.


Thanks man. Yeah Olivares, it's not only about him, but he's going to take the lions share of the article. It's actually a topic I posted about many times on ESB, but that shit hole is history now.


----------



## WritingPride (Jun 6, 2012)

Teeto said:


> Thanks man. Yeah Olivares, it's not only about him, but he's going to take the lions share of the article. It's actually a topic I posted about many times on ESB, but that shit hole is history now.


I don't tend to go deep with my boxing history but I did enjoy learning about Olivares years ago and watching his fights (Castillo etc). If I get time I'll put stuff up on Carbajal and R Lopez.

Still remember falling off my seat years ago, whilst watching a Setanta broadcast, and hearing Paul Dempsey wax lyrical about Olivares.


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

WritingPride said:


> I don't tend to go deep with my boxing history but I did enjoy learning about Olivares years ago and watching his fights (Castillo etc). If I get time I'll put stuff up on Carbajal and R Lopez.
> 
> Still remember falling off my seat years ago, whilst watching a Setanta broadcast, and hearing Paul Dempsey wax lyrical about Olivares.


brilliant, go for it

Olivares was cream of the crop when it came to punching, absolute cream of the crop.


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Edit


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Sportofkings said:


> Great post LP, lets hope you can make it as good as the Mexican thread you had over on ESB:good


Cheers mate, and i hope so, plenty of fight/fighters to talk and learn about so should be entertaining:good

Teeto, that sounds quality, look forward to it, and i agree, his straight right does get looked past more than it should, awesome fighter to watch:good


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Juan Zurita was an absolutely brilliant fighter, although that footage of Wolgast demonstrates why Wolgast is one of _the_ greats.

Have I got to bring everything over here as well?? :-(


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

There is no way Winstone won any of the Saldivar fights. The 2nd is the one brought up as 'the close one' more often than not and Saldivar won it by a fair few points.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

One of my favourite Chavez performances is against the criminally underrated Rocky Lockridge, who could box as well as he could bang and, despite the Juan Laporte fight (W.O.W) had a serviceable chin. He was robbed against Wilfredo Gomez, sparked undefeated Roger Mayweather inside a round, beaten Boza. He was quality.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

One of the hardest light fly punchers in history, scoring a massive upset in sparking one of the most slippery, skillful and greatest light flys of all time.






Here, is some very rough footage but I can't recommend it enough. First off, Ursua stopping Freddy Castillo. Then, Castillo when he beat Luis Esteba for the light fly title. I shit you not, one of the worst beatings I have ever seen, even with just this small footage. It's rough as I say, but well worth a watch.






Better quality footage, but less of it






Castillo lost his title to Netrnoi Sor Vorasingh, but later claimed the lineal Flyweight championship by beating Colombian dangerman Prudencio Cardona. He then lost it against Eleoncio Mercedes.






Castillo was a strong and hard working southpaw. Certainly one of Mexico's less appreciated champions (two weights)

As for Ursua, a freakish pure puncher. Here he is losing to Chang, _the_ greatest light fly of all time.






Both of these men fought a who's who of the lighter weights when it was normal to do so.


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

*Israel ''El Magnifico'' Vasquez*

*Birth date* 1977-12-25
*Division* featherweight
*Stance* orthodox
*Height* 5′ 4½″ / 164cm
*Reach* 66½″ / 169cm
*Alias* Magnifico, Izzy 
*Country* Mexico
*Residence* Huntington Park, California, United States
*Birth place* Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico
*Birth name* Israel Vazquez Castaneda

An unforgettable christmas present came for boxing fans in 1977 as extremely proud Mexican warrior Israel ''El Magnifico'' Vasquez was born. Izzy had a flawless amateur career which saw his record stand at 57-0(57) before he made his professional debut in Mexico City in 1995 where he won a 1st round TKO against Eduardo Rosas. His knockout winning streak continued until his 10th professional fight where, under controversial circumstances, was stopped in the 1st round against ''Home Town'' fighter Ulises Flores. Izzy was pinned on the ropes and Flores let flow a combination, most of which were blocked but in true British style the referee jumped in and stopped the fight. Not one to complain to much, Izzy got back down to business 6 weeks later and continued to work his way up the ladder.
Just three fights later he stepped up against Mexican hotshot and the undefeated 20-0(15) Oscar Larios. The outcome was BRUTAL.






His next test was in his 21st fight where he fought for the vacant WBO NABO 122 title. Izzy would lose this fight on a close split decision and i haven't seen the fight so i can't comment on it. 13 fights later and the rematch with Oscar Larios, this time things wouldn't go so smoothly for ''El Magnifico'' as he was stopped in a war in the 12th and final round of their interim WBC super bantamweight title.

_Sorry, video has been removed_:-(

It wasn't all heartbreak for Izzy as just 3 fights later he fought for the vacant IBF Super bantamweight title against brave but over matched Jose Luis Valbuena where Izzy recorded a 12th round TKO. He fought 3 defences of the IBF strap before vacating and and Challenging Oscar Larios for the Rubber match and the WBC belt. Abit of a dissapointing ending (well, not for me) as a cut forced the referee to stop the fight in the 3rd round. It was before this fight Future Hall of Fame Coach Freddie Roach hailed Vasquez as_ ''The greatest champion i've ever worked with. Nobody ever comes to the gym with a better attitude, nobody works harder or more honestly, i've never met a nicer boxer.''_ Flattering praise from Roach.






A defence against Ivan Hernandez 6 months later, who had earlier taking Montiel 7 rounds and was later to take quality Japanese southpaw Toshiaki Nishioka only 3 rounds and rising Puerto Rican and son of a legend Wilfredo Vazquez Jr 11 rounds. It took Izzy 4 rounds to dispatch ''Choko''. A good win but better was still to come.

Showing True Mexican grit and heart, being soundly beaten, outboxed and suffering 2 knockdowns against Jhonny Gonzalez, who had just moved up from 118.

_Fight removed by youtube the wankers_ :-(

Pretty much all boxing fans know the story from here as one of the most EPIC trilogies in boxing history were to take place as IBF 118 Champion Rafael Marquez were to put everything on the line for three quality fights, one after the other. The ended when Damage to Izzy's nose stopped him from being able to breathe and pulled out of the fight. This was also to be the last fight Vasquez was trained by Freddie Roach.






5 months later came the re-match. The new man in his corner is quality Mexican Trainer Rudy Perez who is better known as the trainer of modern day legend Marco Antonio Barrera through his many glory years. The tactics were different, the result was different and war was even better.






19 months out of the ring and after a well deserved break from the ring, Vasquez came back to fight Angel Antonio Priolo in what was a warm up for a 4th fight with Rafael Marquez which has so far proven and hopefully to be Israel's last fight.
There have been talks and rumours and ''El Magnifico'' making a comeback but hopefully they just that. He has nothing left to prove. He currently lives with his Girlfriend, who owns a Hairdresses in Huntington Park, California. He spends alot of time working with helping keeping kids off the streets in East LA with various youth projects.

You gotta Love Izzy


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Good work Flea, i'll give a watch in the morning:good

I put the Izzy piece in here because he's retired, i know he's modern but thought he deserves his slot


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

I have a question. Traditionally, what is Mexico's strongest weight division? In Britian it is probably Flyweight, with Middle (Super Middle included) up there.


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

I'm not to sure mate, probably can't narrow it down like that because the talent pool is so rich.

i mean Feather you got Sanchez, Saldivar, Barrera, Morales, Marquez to start off with


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

Yeah I would have imagined it would have been the lighter weights. That featherweight list has some crazy talent. Bantam too, with Zarate, Olivaries, Zamora, Harrera etc


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

yep, and more recently Rafa


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Still can't get on 2nd page :fire


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Bantam for me, with Feather and fly shortly afterward.

Bantam:
Ruben Olivares
Carlos Zarate
Chucho Castillo
Rafael Herrera
Raul Macias
Rafael Marquez
Rodolfo Martinez
Alfonso Zamora
Lupe Pintor

Among others.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

This thread should be for ANY Mexican fighters of any real quality. As a massive fan of Izzy (3rd Marquez fight is one of my alltime favourites) I'm well chuffed he's made it into the thread :good


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

:good

Cheers Flea, appreciate it


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Still showing with ......... on forum screen :think


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

i know, i sent supermanintights a PM, needs to get sorted. 

Just then i clicked on your name, viewed all posts then clicked on the 1 you just wrote and managed to get on the page, annoying though


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Change to 40 posts per page, and it's less of an issue.


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Wallet said:


> Change to 40 posts per page, and it's less of an issue.


you're never gunna drop this are you


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Teeto said:


> you're never gunna drop this are you


What?

I've never mentioned it before.


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Wallet said:


> What?
> 
> I've never mentioned it before.


oh my mistake, I thought you was on that Tommyv Shit where you say all of the people who don't use 40 posts per page are gay etc

my mistake


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Page 2 been fixed :happy


----------



## Graham Norton (Jun 7, 2012)

It's the ..... in the title that seems to confuse it for some reason


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

LP

Gunna finish when I get back, going for a scran with my mate, it's nearly done mate.


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

:good i'm off out for abit anyway mate


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

my article's been submitted, WAR Olivares


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Where man, can't see it on main page.


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Roe said he'll put it up tomorrow, it's very long like and he'll probably have to dig out all kinds of pictures of all the historic fighters that I'm rambling on about. I did one about Margarito too which he said he's gunna put up first.


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)




----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Quality stuff, u see my bit on Izzy


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

yeah LP, brilliant posts, you covered everything, you said it yourself, you gotta love Izzy, him and Rafael, legends.


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

so what's the deal with you and Mexican fighters then LP? Is it just that you have a lot of love for the Mexican fighters, or do you have some Mexican blood in you? 

Who's your fave Mexican fighter my man?


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Cheers mate, i got 1 on Tapia over on eastside, i'l up date it and bring it over in the week.

Just love watching them mate, i mean the thing i like about boxing is to me there is something Honorable about 2 man facing off, 1 on 1 and just fighting with your fists. No arsing about if ya know what i mean and no-1 does that better than Mexicans, always give it their all. Thats on top of all the great fighters/fights that they have given us.

Barrera and Sanchez are my favourite, but as i'm learning more about the elder generations finding alot of love for most of them:good

Who's your fav Mexican


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Mexican_LP said:


> Cheers mate, i got 1 on Tapia over on eastside, i'l up date it and bring it over in the week.
> 
> Just love watching them mate, i mean the thing i like about boxing is to me there is something Honorable about 2 man facing off, 1 on 1 and just fighting with your fists. No arsing about if ya know what i mean and no-1 does that better than Mexicans, always give it their all. Thats on top of all the great fighters/fights that they have given us.
> 
> ...


nice,

it's hard for me to say you know. In his prime, Barrera was my favourite fighter, out of any current fighter, he was just my flat out fave. At the time it kinda made me not so much of a fan of Morales, but it was weird because I was always confident that Morales was always gunna win, everytime he fought someone, except for when he fought Barrera, I was always confident Barrera would up his game vs Morales and beat him, but in general, I thought Morales was just the dogs bollocks at the time, whereas with Barrera I was always kinda worried he might not be consistent and could slip up and ose now and then, it worried me a bit because he was my fave fighter. Their first fight, along with Duran-Leonard 1 is probably my fave fight ever. Duran-Leonard 1 is probably my number 1 but it's close.

As they got older though it's weird because I think I've turned into more of a Morales fan in their older days, he's just so much of a warrior, we're talking about proper fucking greatness when we're talking about Erik Morales. You know what I mean? What a fucking legend. I used to get into arguments on ESB classic because as it got shitter and shitter, people were talking madness about Morales being on some average level shit.

I think if I was saying who the best Mexican fighter ever is I would probably have to say Olivares or Sanchez, it's hard to say though, so many legends, and we bviously were robbed of seeing the best of Sanchez. Olivares was one who wasn't the most consistent but fuck me, I've never seen punching like it.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

What's it about? Bantamweights of the 60s?


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> What's it about? Bantamweights of the 60s?


which? the article? Nah, it's about punching technique and generating power as opposed to having natural power. I've harped on about it on ESB before Flea, not sure if you saw the posts or not like, you probably did, I did this as more of an article like, threw a personal story in there and that. I put them on my fb for mates to read and that now so I put a few explanations in there that won't needed for good fans like yourselves. But hey.


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

My favorite mexican is probably a bit forgotten these day.










Jose Medel


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Today, I'm feeling Saldivar>Olivares, even with rare footage of both fresh in the mind (Laguna/Chucho III)

As great as Olivares was, Saldivars consistency can be deemed a clear edge IMO. I'll take Chavez as no.1. You could even have Saldivar>Sanchez quite easily IMO.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Vic-JofreBrasil said:


> My favorite mexican is probably a bit forgotten these day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As you know, I'm a fan. Such a crafty puncher, an expert at setting traps, and a heavy hitter in either hand.

Look at the quality of opposition: arguably the best of any Mexican fighter. IMO, has the greatest single win of any Mexican: Fighting Harada!

I did a piece on LP's thread, and on Raul Macias, and Avelar; I'll bring them over tomorrow :thumbsup


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Today, I'm feeling Saldivar>Olivares, even with rare footage of both fresh in the mind (Laguna/Chucho III)
> 
> As great as Olivares was, Saldivars consistency can be deemed a clear edge IMO. I'll take Chavez as no.1. You could even have Saldivar>Sanchez quite easily IMO.


good points, there's a lot to consider like

I didn't mean that Olivares was the greatest Mexican ever, just that I think he very possibly is the best Mexican. Very hard to say though, so many legends, and Olivares was never as consistent as some of the others.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Teeto said:


> which? the article? Nah, it's about punching technique and generating power as opposed to having natural power. I've harped on about it on ESB before Flea, not sure if you saw the posts or not like, you probably did, I did this as more of an article like, threw a personal story in there and that. I put them on my fb for mates to read and that now so I put a few explanations in there that won't needed for good fans like yourselves. But hey.


I look forward to reading it. Especially as I consider Olivares to have real raw power as well as technique.


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> I look forward to reading it. Especially as I consider Olivares to have real raw power as well as technique.


:good he surely did, I've never gotten over that performance over Lionel Rose to this day:lol: ever


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Teeto said:


> good points, there's a lot to consider like
> 
> I didn't mean that Olivares was the greatest Mexican ever, just that I think he very possibly is the best Mexican. Very hard to say though, so many legends, and Olivares was never as consistent as some of the others.


I love him. Not as much as I love Chucho Castillo though. Herrera was absolutely brilliant as well. Olivares is so obvious a choice when thinking of great bantamweights and Mexicans that it's easy to forget how closely matched those three were!


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Teeto said:


> :good he surely did, I've never gotten over that performance over Lionel Rose to this day:lol: ever


That's the _one_ for me as well :good


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> I love him. Not as much as I love Chucho Castillo though. Herrera was absolutely brilliant as well. Olivares is so obvious a choice when thinking of great bantamweights and Mexicans that it's easy to forget how closely matched those three were!


best bantamweight era ever mate


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

You know what, the thing i love about Barrera most was that mean streak he had, pure hatred, i always think if i was a boxer i'd be like that:yep just train with hatred. But when i watch Morales fight, it's like, fucking hell, this is the man, he oozes everything a warrior should be about and i love that. Kinda in awe just watching him

Yea bring them over Flea, they was class :good


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

one of AlFrancis' mates commented on a vid he uploaded on his fb saying 'this is what Rudkin faced, the best Japanese fighter ever, the best Australian fighter ever, and maybe even the best Mexican fighter ever'

I know we always say how unlucky Rudkin was, but when you see it written out like that it's fucking bananas, so fucking unlucky!


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Teeto, I actually came to that realisation recently as well: once a Barrera fan but now possibly more of an 'El Terrible' fanboy :lol: _Maybe,_ might just be because he's fresh in the mind.


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Mexican_LP said:


> You know what, the thing i love about Barrera most was that mean streak he had, pure hatred, i always think if i was a boxer i'd be like that:yep just train with hatred. But when i watch Morales fight, it's like, fucking hell, this is the man, he oozes everything a warrior should be about and i love that. Kinda in awe just watching him
> 
> Yea bring them over Flea, they was class :good


:good


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Teeto said:


> one of AlFrancis' mates commented on a vid he uploaded on his fb saying 'this is what Rudkin faced, the best Japanese fighter ever, the best Australian fighter ever, and maybe even the best Mexican fighter ever'
> 
> I know we always say how unlucky Rudkin was, but when you see it written out like that it's fucking bananas, so fucking unlucky!


shame really Hatton get loads of Plaudits for getting Knocked CLEAN out by Mayweather and Pacquiao but Rudkin doesn't get much of a mention


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Teeto, I actually came to that realisation recently as well: once a Barrera fan but now possibly more of an 'El Terrible' fanboy :lol: _Maybe,_ might just be because he's fresh in the mind.


that's exactly how I feel man, it's kinda like the Benn-Eubank for me, I loved Benn, always will, but after they retired, I'm all Eubank, what a guy. I think it;s because Eubank seems to not be able to leave the sport behind, he really bleeds boxing, even though he pretends not to, it's blatant, and he was a warrior. Sorry for going off on a non-Mexican tangent there.


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Mexican_LP said:


> shame really Hatton get loads of Plaudits for getting Knocked CLEAN out by Mayweather and Pacquiao but Rudkin doesn't get much of a mention


haha true

have you ever seen Rudkin-Rose mate? One of the best fights you'll see.


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Teeto said:


> haha true
> 
> have you ever seen Rudkin-Rose mate? One of the best fights you'll see.


I haven't mate, but will give it a watch, remember reading it was quite close though wasn't it. TBH the only bits i've seen of Rudkin is against Harada, and think that was only the 2nd part of the fight, it was on the piece Flea done on him :good


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Mexican_LP said:


> I haven't mate, but will give it a watch, remember reading it was quite close though wasn't it. TBH the only bits i've seen of Rudkin is against Harada, and think that was only the 2nd part of the fight, it was on the piece Flea done on him :good


sound, if you get round to watching it it will have you on the edge of your seat, proper high drama


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Teeto said:


> haha true
> 
> have you ever seen* Rudkin-Rose* mate? * One of the best fights you'll see.*


100% agree.....that fight is beautiful. Awesome performance by Rose......


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Vic-JofreBrasil said:


> 100% agree.....that fight is beautiful. Awesome performance by Rose......


yeah man, absolutely fantastic


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Rudkin beat Rose IMO. Rose Vs Chucho is in full on YouTube.


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

I had it for Rose by a point


----------



## AlFrancis (Jun 6, 2012)

Recently watched the second Castillo Herrera fight, I had Chucho winning.


----------



## AlFrancis (Jun 6, 2012)

Mexican_LP said:


> I haven't mate, but will give it a watch, remember reading it was quite close though wasn't it. TBH the only bits i've seen of Rudkin is against Harada, and think that was only the 2nd part of the fight, it was on the piece Flea done on him :good


Just posted the full version of the Harada Rudkin fight on Youtube if you're interested. It's better quality than the British HL version that was up there.


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

AlFrancis said:


> Just posted the full version of the Harada Rudkin fight on Youtube if you're interested. It's better quality than the British HL version that was up there.


nice 1 mate, will give it a watch, have you got your own youtube channel


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

you've got a mention in my article that's waiting to go up al


----------



## AlFrancis (Jun 6, 2012)

Mexican_LP said:


> nice 1 mate, will give it a watch, have you got your own youtube channel


 




Here's the link for the Harada fight, the rest of them are on this channel (juzzerbell)


----------



## AlFrancis (Jun 6, 2012)

:


Teeto said:


> you've got a mention in my article that's waiting to go up al


 Nice one, look forward to reading it! :good


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

:good


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

ok well it's up

http://checkhookboxing.com/content.php?168-Powerful-Generations


----------



## AlFrancis (Jun 6, 2012)

Just heard that perennial bantam contender Jesus Pimentel has just undergone surgery for stomach cancer, hope it all goes well for him.


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

AlFrancis said:


> Just heard that perennial bantam contender Jesus Pimentel has just undergone surgery for stomach cancer, hope it all goes well for him.


fuckinghell

all the best to him


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Quality fighter, I wish him the very best.


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Damn guys....Medel vs Pimentel is not avaliable on YT anymore...that is one of my favorite fights !


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

No way??! atsch That was one of the best bits of my Medel piece on ESB :| Love that fight, great action, both men hurt...class!


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Medel vs McGowan also is gone !


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

It's okay, _I_ have that :good


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> It's okay, _I_ have that :good


:good

Btw, I´m Going to watch Sahaprom vs Chuvatana right now......


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

:bowdown *Enjoy!* IMO, a 10 out of 10 fight.


----------



## AlFrancis (Jun 6, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> No way??! atsch That was one of the best bits of my Medel piece on ESB :| Love that fight, great action, both men hurt...class!


I've got that!


----------



## AlFrancis (Jun 6, 2012)

Never seen this before, have a look at this fellas channel


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Great channel, he has just uploaded an early Rafael Marquez fight (stoppage loss, bit iffy) as well :good


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

AlFrancis said:


> Never seen this before, have a look at this fellas channel


fantastic Al, I'm at work but catching a glimpse of this here on my break, had to skip through it like, looks very routine the way Olivares went about this one. Thanks for the post.


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

AlFrancis said:


> Never seen this before, have a look at this fellas channel


Nice 1 :good


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

He has a great channel.


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> As you know, I'm a fan. Such a crafty puncher, an expert at setting traps, and a heavy hitter in either hand.
> 
> Look at the quality of opposition: arguably the best of any Mexican fighter. IMO, has the greatest single win of any Mexican: Fighting Harada!
> 
> I did a piece on LP's thread, and on *Raul Macias*, and Avelar; I'll bring them over tomorrow :thumbsup


Something for this thread:

Macias vs Nava I and II





Macias vs Nate Brooks


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Wow!!!! Thank you so much @Vic-Jofre Brasil ! 

I'll shake your hand when I get to Santos  :thumbsup


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Wow!!!! Thank you so much @Vic-Jofre Brasil !
> 
> I'll shake your hand when I get to Santos  :thumbsup


haha, :good......:deal:


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Vic-JofreBrasil said:


> haha, :good......:deal:


Great footage of Raton. Reminds me of Saldivar: paces himself well, but when he's in a rhythm he's all over his man.

Great to see decent footage of Nate Brooks as well. Matched too hard, what a shame.

I got Park-Canto II through: it was the first fight :-( atsch Also, the guy didn't have Chucho sparking Herrera.

But I did get Chucho Vs Caraballo! Man, Castillo floors Bernando two or three times with his JAB!


----------



## AlFrancis (Jun 6, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Great footage of Raton. Reminds me of Saldivar: paces himself well, but when he's in a rhythm he's all over his man.
> 
> Great to see decent footage of Nate Brooks as well. Matched too hard, what a shame.
> 
> ...


Where did you get the Castillo Caraballo footage flea?


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

AlFrancis said:


> Where did you get the Castillo Caraballo footage flea?


:rofl Look who the first fighter is!

http://www.classicfights.net/classics.html


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Great footage of Raton. Reminds me of Saldivar: paces himself well, but when he's in a rhythm he's all over his man.
> 
> Great to see decent footage of Nate Brooks as well. Matched too hard, what a shame.
> 
> ...


Oh Flea, any chance of upload this someday ?


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Damn, this site you posted is great btw !! Wow.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Vic-Jofre Brasil 100% chance I will upload  Laptop being a piece of shit at the moment though :lol: 

Shame about Park-Canto II though :|


----------



## AlFrancis (Jun 6, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> :rofl Look who the first fighter is!
> 
> http://www.classicfights.net/classics.html


Some fights I'll be ordering from there, Ruben, Lionel and Chucho. Wonder if he'll trade me for his Rudkin fights of mine :lol:
By the way, having a bit of trouble getting the Poppraigram fight up but I'll sort it out.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Just get him to check thefootage first. He thought he had Chucho KO3 Herrera, but didn't, and as I say Park D15 Canto didn't show up :-(


----------



## AlFrancis (Jun 6, 2012)

I've been after the Olivares Bastidas fight, RB had that on his list but didn't actually have it when I ordered it. He did send me an Eddie Perkins one instead though. Thanks though, I'll check with him.


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> @Vic-Jofre Brasil 100% chance I will upload  Laptop being a piece of shit at the moment though :lol:
> 
> Shame about Park-Canto II though :|


You are the man @Flea Man ! I´m uploading Galindez vs Ahumada V right now....
you typed my name with a space between Jofre and Brasil...that´s why didn´t show up in the mentioned thing hahaha

edit- it´s Galindez vs Ahumada V actually Flea.....


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

AlFrancis said:


> I've been after the Olivares Bastidas fight, RB had that on his list but didn't actually have it when I ordered it. *He did send me an Eddie Perkins one instead though.* Thanks though, I'll check with him.


Which one Al ?? Perkins vs Sorimachi is not on YT anymore sadly.......
Btw, I remember your thread that day on the other forum about the time took to upload, I converted the videos to mp4 like Flea said adn things are much faster then....mp4.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Vic-JofreBrasil got it now :good

Shit though, my laptop has some Internet 101 error. A quick google search says it's an absolute bastard :lol: So I can't really view/steal your longer videos at the mo....or upload any of my own :twisted I have more Pedroza to share as well.


----------



## AlFrancis (Jun 6, 2012)

Vic-JofreBrasil said:


> Which one Al ?? Perkins vs Sorimachi is not on YT anymore sadly.......
> Btw, I remember your thread that day on the other forum about the time took to upload, I converted the videos to mp4 like Flea said adn things are much faster then....mp4.


The one I've got is an early one against Carl Hubbard.
By the way, one of the mods on ESB felt it necessary to delete that thread for some reason and nobody would own up to it and give me an explanation despite pming them all.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Wow! Don't think I've seen that @AlFrancis and by the way @Vic-JofreBrasil I commented on a few of your YouTube vids, cheers mate :good

My laptop is still being shocking. So can't upload anything at the mo'. Have another bulldozing performance from the ever enjoyable Tae-Shik Kim as well :yep Fair play to the DVD matey, he's said he'll sort me out for the disappointment over Park-Canto II.

You guys spotted anything cool on there? I know I want Accavallo Vs the Jap' matey when he gets battered. Saw that on there, hopefully he's actually got it


----------



## AlFrancis (Jun 6, 2012)

AlFrancis said:


> The one I've got is an early one against Carl Hubbard.
> By the way, one of the mods on ESB felt it necessary to delete that thread for some reason and nobody would own up to it and give me an explanation despite pming them all.


I'll try converting them Vic, thanks.


----------



## AlFrancis (Jun 6, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Wow! Don't think I've seen that @AlFrancis and by the way @Vic-JofreBrasil I commented on a few of your YouTube vids, cheers mate :good
> 
> My laptop is still being shocking. So can't upload anything at the mo'. Have another bulldozing performance from the ever enjoyable Tae-Shik Kim as well :yep Fair play to the DVD matey, he's said he'll sort me out for the disappointment over Park-Canto II.
> 
> You guys spotted anything cool on there? I know I want Accavallo Vs the Jap' matey when he gets battered. Saw that on there, hopefully he's actually got it


Just had another quick scan over it again and Sixto Escobar-Harry Jeffra 3 stuck out for me. Always wondered what these fellas looked like on film along with the likes of Lou Salica, Harold Dade etc'.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

WTF?! There's some Sixto?! I'm emailing him now :good


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

I've asked him to check out Escobar footage, as well as checking out Accavallo-Tanabe. Anyone seen that before??


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

And fuck me he has Luis Manuel Rodriguez Vs Holly Mims footage listed!!!


----------



## Burt Brooks (Jun 6, 2012)

chatty said:


> You know much about Juan Zuita LP, I been hoping to read up on him and maybes watch some fights but can only find 9 mins of the Wolgast fight. He has a quality record with some good scalps on there.


Juan Zurita was a top fighter in a great era of lightweights...I saw him at MSG lose a decision to a prime Beau Jack...Juan beat the TOUGH Sammy Angott for the NBA lightweight title in 1944. Juan Zurita, had about 154 bouts against the great talent of the 1940s, beating most everybody except the great lightweights as Henry Armstrong, Beau Jack.and Ike Williams and the underated Slugger White...Zurita today would be lightweight champion, most assuredly...


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Burt Brooks I doubt he'd campaign at lightweight today, but he'd certainly be a solid champion is today's less dangerous waters.


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Wow! Don't think I've seen that @AlFrancis and by the way @Vic-JofreBrasil I commented on a few of your YouTube vids, cheers mate :good
> 
> My laptop is still being shocking. So can't upload anything at the mo'. Have another bulldozing performance from the ever enjoyable Tae-Shik Kim as well :yep Fair play to the DVD matey, he's said he'll sort me out for the disappointment over Park-Canto II.
> 
> You guys spotted anything cool on there? I know I want Accavallo Vs the Jap' matey when he gets battered. Saw that on there, hopefully he's actually got it


:good @Flea Man
I´ll upload some Kuniaki Shibata footage probably tommorow....and Ohba vs Hanagata.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

I think I have everything of Shibata...what did you get? 

Have tried contacting RB to see of he knows of Park-Canto II :think


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Jofre vs Jose Medel, the HL, the mexican bantamweight mentioned before in this thread, not too well remembered anymore these days......just check out how tough he was, Jofre always said that this was his toughest fight ever, even more than the bouts with Harada in his opinion.....






the full fight is on YT as well folks......


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> I think I have everything of Shibata...what did you get?
> 
> Have tried contacting RB to see of he knows of Park-Canto II :think


vs Villaflor, Escalera, Marcel and Arredondo......


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Maybe I don't have the Arredondo fight....the other 3 are not good ones for Kuniaki :lol: Unkess it's the _first_ Villaflor fight :good


----------



## Burt Brooks (Jun 6, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> @Burt Brooks I doubt he'd campaign at lightweight today, but he'd certainly be a solid champion is today's less dangerous waters.


Flea,Juan Zurita fought as a lightweight from 1939 at age of 22, til he retired in 1945 at age of 28 years old...He weighed all the prime years about 134 pounds, and when i saw him lose to Beau Jack in 1944...So today he had to fight at LW 134 pounds...


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Burt Brooks then he'd be fighting guys weighing well over the welterweights of his day. Weight cutting is prevalent today, and I think he'd follow suit or be well outsized. Seeing as he was a more than comfortable featherweight, I imagine he'd cut down to that limit. He _did_ fight Casanova, Wolgast (one of their fights I think) and Sixto Escobar weighing in around or under the featherweight limit. Not too many fighters fight at their natural weight nowadays.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Burt Brooks then he'd be fighting guys weighing well over the welterweights of his day. Weight cutting is prevalent today, and I think he'd follow suit or be well outsized.


----------



## Burt Brooks (Jun 6, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> @Burt Brooks then he'd be fighting guys weighing well over the welterweights of his day. Weight cutting is prevalent today, and I think he'd follow suit or be well outsized.


Flea, beg to differ...Zurita tought FW Midget Walgost when he was about 17 years or so of age at 126 lbs, but he NATURALLY morphed into a 134 pound lightweight after that. In his prime years he would have had to starve to make 126 pounds...A LW yesterday is a LW today...Of course todays Lwts weigh in a day before,and cn enter the ring 10 pounds heavier than 135 but were they to have fought in the 1940s golden era ,they would weigh in at the same weight as Juan Zurita...


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Burt Brooks you're completely wrong. Lightweights today are the welterweights of yesteryear cutting to the lightweight limit, for the most part. You seem to think people come in at their natural weight then miraculously put on an extra 10lbs or so just because they have an extra day, like it's an accident.You're wrong.

Zurita would be much smaller than say, Brandon Rios, who weighs in over 150 for some of his lightweight fights. Juan Manuel Marquez was over 145 for some of his lightweight defences.

Would be better for Zurita to be a strong 135lb fighter fighting at the featherweight limit: as Yuriorkis Gamboa was doing up until recently. Even then, someone like Salido or Juan Manuel Lopez weigh in over 140lbs there.


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Teeto said:


>


Just watched this, thought i'd seen it before but it's not in my boxset. Class performance from Olivares, demolition job :deal


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Mexican_LP said:


> Just watched this, thought i'd seen it before but it's not in my boxset. Class performance from Olivares, demolition job :deal


yeah man, amazing


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Anybody have Ruben Olivares vs Jose Luis Ramirez :think


----------



## Burt Brooks (Jun 6, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> @Burt Brooks you're completely wrong. Lightweights today are the welterweights of yesteryear cutting to the lightweight limit, for the most part. You seem to think people come in at their natural weight then miraculously put on an extra 10lbs or so just because they have an extra day, like it's an accident.You're wrong.
> 
> Zurita would be much smaller than say, Brandon Rios, who weighs in over 150 for some of his lightweight fights. Juan Manuel Marquez was over 145 for some of his lightweight defences.
> 
> Would be better for Zurita to be a strong 135lb fighter fighting at the featherweight limit: as Yuriorkis Gamboa was doing up until recently. Even then, someone like Salido or Juan Manuel Lopez weigh in over 140lbs there.


I'm wrong about a lot of things but not this issue...Juan Zurita left the featherweight class in 1939 when he was 22 years old...He started from then on fighting at the lightweight poundage of 134 pounds from then on til he retired in 1945 at the age of 28...He was a lightweight who weighed the same as Beau Jack, Henry armstrong, Ike williams and other lws of that time...Zurita whom I saw had about 100 bouts at his natural mature 
134 pound weight...
P.S. Jake LaMotta started his pro career fighting as a LH. But he chose to get down to under 160 lbs for all his fights cause he had an advantage in strength over the middleweights...A LW is a LW if he fights at 134-5 pounds and that was the weight I saw Juan Zurita lose to Beau Jack in 1944...


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Montiel left hook was devastating in that 2nd round


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Burt Brooks well of course I'm not disputing you are wrong there Sir. As I say, I only disagree with the hypothesis that he'd fight in the lightweight division as we know it today if he was coming up in the modern era.

Of course, that's a moot point so I'll agree to disagree: but hopefully you see the point I'm trying to male. I do agree with you that he'd have a very good chance with the best fighters of today in any of the divisions he chose to fight in between feather, super feather or lightweight :good


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Montiel always reminded me of Benny Leonard how he always seems to keep the same distance from his opponent and throws loads of single, very hard shots. Love Fernando Montiel.


----------



## Burt Brooks (Jun 6, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> @Burt Brooks well of course I'm not disputing you are wrong there Sir. As I say, I only disagree with the hypothesis that he'd fight in the lightweight division as we know it today if he was coming up in the modern era.
> 
> Of course, that's a moot point so I'll agree to disagree: but hopefully you see the point I'm trying to male. I do agree with you that he'd have a very good chance with the best fighters of today in any of the divisions he chose to fight in between feather, super feather or lightweight :good


 Flea, I don't understand your dispute with my contention that Juan Zurita ,were he fighting today, as well as Ike williams, Beau Jack, Bob Montgomery, Sammy Angott etc, would have been LIGHTWEIGHT's today, by today's rules of weighing in one day before at 135 pounds and coming into the ring the next night fightime


----------



## Burt Brooks (Jun 6, 2012)

Burt Brooks said:


> Flea, I don't understand your dispute with my contention that Juan Zurita ,were he fighting today, as well as Ike williams, Beau Jack, Bob Montgomery, Sammy Angott etc, would have been LIGHTWEIGHT's today, by today's rules of weighing in one day before at 135 pounds and coming into the ring the next night fightime


----at whatever weight they pigged food in their system...Zurita, would be a LW today, and with today's rules, Juan would come ito the ring many pounds heavier...
So, Juan was a LW then and would be a TOP lightweight today albeit heavier ringside...


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Mexican_LP said:


> Anybody have Ruben Olivares vs Jose Luis Ramirez :think


Doesn't exist. Body shot kayo.

@Burt Brooks wasn't imagining them as being born 20 years ago, only transporting those brilliant 135lb specimens into today's game and not seeing them put on any extra weight to take 'em past their optimum 135lbs. Today's lightweights would be bigger than the lightweights of that era (not that I'd bother Ike Williams much for one) and wouldn't make the limit on the same day of the fight. IMO, the likes of Gamboa, Salido, even Nonito Donaire would be lightweights in Williams' day. That is what they fight at in the ring, and that means so much more to me than Donalre weighing in at 118lbs the day before. How is he a bantamweight if he's weighing 132lbs on fight night?

I say let the 135lbers fight the guys who weigh 135 on fight night (or at least not 145-155 as many do today). That would be today's 'featherweights', and some even at a lower weight than that. Today's weightclasses are all about 'I'm bigger than you' in stark contrast to the great era's you witnessed in your youth, when it was more often than not 'I'm more skilled than you'.

IMO, all of those fighters would be lesser competitors if they'd started their careers in the last decade. I hold fighting near your natural weight very high in my 'what makes a good fighter' internal dialogues...IMO they would be lesser fighters for bulking up and cutting to the lightweight limit.


----------



## Burt Brooks (Jun 6, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Doesn't exist. Body shot kayo.
> 
> @Burt Brooks wasn't imagining them as being born 20 years ago, only transporting those brilliant 135lb specimens into today's game and not seeing them put on any extra weight to take 'em past their optimum 135lbs. Today's lightweights would be bigger than the lightweights of that era (not that I'd bother Ike Williams much for one) and wouldn't make the limit on the same day of the fight. IMO, the likes of Gamboa, Salido, even Nonito Donaire would be lightweights in Williams' day. That is what they fight at in the ring, and that means so much more to me than Donalre weighing in at 118lbs the day before. How is he a bantamweight if he's weighing 132lbs on fight night?
> 
> ...


Flee, one moh time...Are you saying today's lightweight's before a weighin are bigger than a Beau Jack, Ike Williams, Juan Zurita., weeks before a fightand have to lose 10 pounds before a fight by more VIGEROUS training than the oldtimers who fought every couple of weeks ? Than after the weigh-in a day before the fight go on a binge to gain the same weight they were before the weighin ? Doesn't make sense...I'll say this again the lightweights of my youth in the 1940s, were just as bib and STRONG as the lightweights of today...a Beau Jack, built like a fire hydrant ,when not in training walked around at 150 or so pounds. The big difference was the oldtimers had to weighin the SAME DAY of the fight [morning] and by the time of the bout had less time to" FATTEN"up and were in shape to go 15 rounds at full speed...But when they were not in training they weighed the same amount...In general....


----------



## Bajingo (May 31, 2012)

My understanding is that it's not "fattening up" but dehydration. So someone like Rios walks around at about 170, gets into shape so he weighs around 150, then loses the remaining weight the week before the fight not through training really, but by not eating or drinking. He steps on the scales and between then and the fight will rehydrate and eat a lot to return to his real weight of 150. 

With a same day weigh-in he just couldn't do that. He'd have to fight at welterweight minimum, a lightweight weighing in at 135 on the day of the fight as they used to, would be able to cut more weight through dehydration and drop to featherweight or even lower but still enter the ring at the same weight and in the same condition.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Burt Brooks why can't you understand walking around at 150 and fighting over 150 is a totally different thing!?! Did Ike, Montgomery Et al weigh over 150 in the ring? With only a few hours to dehydrate I doubt it.

My point is lightweight today is not lightweight as you knew it back in the day. Maybe you're not aware how fighters exploit the (often36 hour) rehydration periods.

Boxing today is a wholly inferior product to the sport you experienced as a young man, that is the point I'm trying to make.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Bajingo said:


> My understanding is that it's not "fattening up" but dehydration. So someone like Rios walks around at about 170, gets into shape so he weighs around 150, then loses the remaining weight the week before the fight not through training really, but by not eating or drinking. He steps on the scales and between then and the fight will rehydrate and eat a lot to return to his real weight of 150.
> 
> With a same day weigh-in he just couldn't do that. He'd have to fight at welterweight minimum, a lightweight weighing in at 135 on the day of the fight as they used to, would be able to cut more weight through dehydration and drop to featherweight or even lower but still enter the ring at the same weight and in the same condition.


I will add that weighing in on the day around welter that Ike Williams would still batter Rios :deal


----------



## Burt Brooks (Jun 6, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> @Burt Brooks why can't you understand walking around at 150 and fighting over 150 is a totally different thing!?! Did Ike, Montgomery Et al weigh over 150 in the ring? With only a few hours to dehydrate I doubt it.
> 
> My point is lightweight today is not lightweight as you knew it back in the day. Maybe you're not aware how fighters exploit the (often36 hour) rehydration periods.
> 
> Boxing today is a wholly inferior product to the sport you experienced as a young man, that is the point I'm trying to make.


Flea, whatever !!! My point is that fighting by the rules of the 8 division days of the 1940s, when a boxer weighed in at 135 the morning of their fight, an Ike williams, Beau Jack, Bob Montgomery, Juan Zurita, Willie Joyce,kicks hell out of today's crop of lightweights, whatever weight they gained after their morning weigh-in. Same rules....HEAVIER DOESN'T MEAN BETTER...


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Burt Brooks yeah that's what I've been saying all this time anyway.


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Carlos Zarate at the Alvarez Vs Lopez presser


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Just watched Julio Cesar Chavez vs Jose Luis Ramierez last night. Its great to see Julio reverted into the boxer vs the bull in Ramriez. Excellent watch, Kevin Rooney was doing the commentary with the HBO team and he was absolutely shite though :lol:


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

@Sportofkings

dont have that fight, is it on _The Tube_ :think if not can you up load


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Mexican_LP said:


> @Sportofkings
> 
> dont have that fight, is it on _The Tube_ :think if not can you up load







The rest of the fight is on the uploaders channel if you cant find it at the side bar :good


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

thanks @Sportofkings


----------

