# The Bronze Blunder.



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Well, that's it. I'm officially no longer a Wilder fan.

What an ass-fuckingly stupid fight plan he had. Almost no jab. No body work. No straight right hand.

And what's with Mark Breeland & Jay Deas? In the final rounds, they didn't even tell Wilder he was way behind. Wilder literally coasted through the final 20 seconds, when without question he had lost the fight.


I'm just dumbfounded. It was fun supporting the guy on the way up, but the circus has left town & only the clowns remain.


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

Last time I pick a puncher. I let my want for Joshua-Wilder cloud my vision. 

Anyway, this sport is disgusting. I'm ashamed to be a boxing fan.


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## homebrand (May 21, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Well, that's it. I'm officially no longer a Wilder fan.
> 
> What an ass-fuckingly stupid fight plan he had. Almost no jab. No body work. No straight right hand.
> 
> ...


The last minute Wilder was out on his feet. He got caught. I missed it myself when it was live.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

How can people be mad? Wilder KO'd Fury in the last round lol and then woke up what else is Wilder meant to do? The guy woke up after sleeping lol


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## Dustaine (Jul 25, 2012)

Shameful decision. How someone gave that fight to Wilder is beyond me.


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## Sweet Pea (Jun 22, 2013)

What the fuck happened? These comments tell me nothing


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Sweet Pea said:


> What the fuck happened? These comments tell me nothing


Fury put on a clinic except for rounds 9 and 12 when he was knocked down.

And by the way, Fury was literally unconscious for 4 seconds in the 12th and then bounced up like the fucking undertaker. Wilder was celebrating like he won and the US TV declared him winner by KO.

IN short, you won't believe it when you see it.


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

Sweet Pea said:


> What the fuck happened? These comments tell me nothing


Wilder scored KDs in the 9th and 12th rounds. But was effectively outboxed by Fury for the rest of the fight. He looked amateurish the entire night.

Seriously go watch that 12 round KD, its a thing of beauty though.


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## Dustaine (Jul 25, 2012)

Fury's spirit left his body, looked at his former recipient lying flat down there and decided to go back in and wake up.


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## Dustaine (Jul 25, 2012)

And not only that, he stunned Wilder 30 seconds later.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

The full 12th round.


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## homebrand (May 21, 2013)

FloydPatterson said:


> Wilder scored KDs in the 9th and 12th rounds. But was effectively outboxed by Fury for the rest of the fight. He looked amateurish the entire night.
> 
> Seriously go watch that 12 round KD, its a thing of beauty though.


 Come on now. Fury won most of the rounds, but it was hardly domination, like you are implying.

Fury eaked out rounds by doing his usual thing of being awkward, and landed a handful (if that) of punches a round.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

homebrand said:


> Come on now. Fury won most of the rounds, but it was hardly domination, like you are implying.
> 
> Fury eaked out rounds by doing his usual thing of being awkward, and landed a handful (if that) of punches a round.


:shifty


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## Dustaine (Jul 25, 2012)

homebrand said:


> Come on now. Fury won most of the rounds, but it was hardly domination, like you are implying.
> 
> Fury eaked out rounds by doing his usual thing of being awkward, and landed a handful (if that) of punches a round.


No, sorry. Wilder was throughly outboxed the rest of the fight.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

homebrand said:


> Come on now. Fury won most of the rounds, but it was hardly domination, like you are implying.
> 
> Fury eaked out rounds by doing his usual thing of being awkward, and landed a handful (if that) of punches a round.


come on now, fury did in fact perform a domination but lost 2 rounds in which he was KD'd, it was more then a handful and there were rounds were wilder landed all of 1 punch on fury.. thats called being dominated. In both were Fury was KD'd he then dominated the rest of the round...


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

homebrand said:


> Come on now. Fury won most of the rounds, but it was hardly domination, like you are implying.
> 
> Fury eaked out rounds by doing his usual thing of being awkward, and landed a handful (if that) of punches a round.


While Wilder landed absolutely nothing, apart from the occasional jab. Fury won every round minus the knockdowns (with the first one being an illegal blow). It absolutely was a domination, Wilder got a boxing lesson and looked every bit as amateurish as his detractors have always said. I thought there was some deceptive boxing skill with Wilder, but I was clearly wrong .


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> While Wilder landed absolutely nothing, apart from the occasional jab. Fury won every round minus the knockdowns (with the first one being an illegal blow). It absolutely was a domination, Wilder got a boxing lesson and looked every bit as amateurish as his detractors have always said. I thought there was some deceptive boxing skill with Wilder, but I was clearly wrong .


wilder is just a monster puncher due to his amateurish hail Mary bombs that no one can seem to get away from due to how unorthodox they are and also how deadly they can be because he seems to always land illegal blows which go unnoticed by refs... can't take that away from wilder, that power saved him in the ortiz fight and saved him tonight, without those KD's he wouldn't have been awarded a gift draw


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## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

There's fighting blood in Fury's blood. The blood of a fighting man, generations of fighting men from a fighting clan of a fighting people who have had to overcome fights with their fight...and blood. Warriors. Forever. Forever and ever. Together.


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## Setanta (May 24, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Fury put on a clinic except for rounds 9 and 12 when he was knocked down.
> 
> And by the way, Fury was literally unconscious for 4 seconds in the 12th and then bounced up like the fucking undertaker. Wilder was celebrating like he won and the US TV declared him winner by KO.
> 
> IN short, you won't believe it when you see it.


I DID see it, and I still don't believe it !


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## Big Yank Bal (Aug 2, 2013)

115-111 Fury 

The only round I gave Wilder besides the knockdown rounds was round 4 and even that round wasn't clear cut. The fight was close in the sense that Wilder almost got the ko in round 12 but not in terms of what the scoring should be.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Boxed Ears said:


> There's fighting blood in Fury's blood. The blood of a fighting man, generations of fighting men from a fighting clan of a fighting people who have had to overcome fights with their fight...and blood. Warriors. Forever. Forever and ever. Together.


For real.

When Fury got up after that second KO, it was like Brad Pitt in "Snatch."

Bloody travelers! "Harder than a coffin nail....."


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## Barack Obama (Jun 7, 2013)

That fight was a draw and Trump wins in landslide 2020


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## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> For real.
> 
> When Fury got up after that second KO, it was like Brad Pitt in "Snatch."
> 
> Bloody travelers! "Harder tha a coffin nail....."


He's been in snatch so many times, I'm not even sure he can appreciate what a fighting man has to fight through, Cable, to be perfectly honest with you. But I hear you, brother.


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## homebrand (May 21, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> :shifty


Lol. The chorus of Fury nut huggers. I clearly said Fury won most of the rounds. I'm just saying the summary given to someone who didn't see the fight was doing it a slight disservice.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

homebrand said:


> Lol. The chorus of Fury nut huggers. I clearly said Fury won most of the rounds. I'm just saying the summary given to someone who didn't see the fight was doing it a slight disservice.


Your summary is inaccurate though, he didn't win most of the rounds. He won all of the rounds, and continued to outbox Wilder in the rounds that contained the knockdowns. It was domination by Fury, 100%.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

A case could even be made that round 9, despite Fury going down, should possibly have been scored even.

Wilder actually fought that badly.

Not to mention, that first KD was caused by, technically, an accidental foul. (Rabbit punch due to Fury ducking down.)
It could easily have been called a "no KD" with Fury given 5 minutes to recover.


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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

Wilder got very very lucky there. Bad decision.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> Your summary is inaccurate though, he didn't win most of the rounds. He won all of the rounds, and continued to outbox Wilder in the rounds that contained the knockdowns. It was domination by Fury, 100%.


My dude, we find ourselves in agreement here. :hi:


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## homebrand (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Your summary is inaccurate though, he didn't win most of the rounds. He won all of the rounds, and continued to outbox Wilder in the rounds that contained the knockdowns. It was domination by Fury, 100%.


Mate, he didn't win all the rounds. Let's not be full of shit now. He lost at least 2 rounds, and 8-10 at that.

Even if we say he won 10 rounds out of 12, that's most of the rounds, not all the rounds. This is just factual, not even opinion.


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## Sweet Pea (Jun 22, 2013)

So one guy outboxed the other but got knocked down multiple times and everyone is scratching their heads over how it was scored s draw?


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

homebrand said:


> Mate, he didn't win all the rounds. Let's not be full of shit now. He lost at least 2 rounds, and 8-10 at that.
> 
> Even if we say he won 10 rounds out of 12, that's most of the rounds, not all the rounds. This is just factual, not even opinion.


He won all the rounds. Due to the knockdowns he lost points there, but he still outboxed Wilder in those rounds and the case can easily be made that they should have been even rounds. So let's just say he didn't lose any rounds then to be more accurate.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Sweet Pea said:


> So one guy outboxed the other but got knocked down multiple times and everyone is scratching their heads over how it was scored s draw?


Two knockdowns doesn't score you a draw, good maths kid.


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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

Sweet Pea said:


> So one guy outboxed the other but got knocked down multiple times and everyone is scratching their heads over how it was scored s draw?


Well Wilder got a pretty lucky draw.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Sweet Pea said:


> So one guy outboxed the other but got knocked down multiple times and everyone is scratching their heads over how it was scored s draw?


I know your instinct is to back the American dude, and I respect it, but he was clowned here. Fury won 9 rounds, no less than 8.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Two knockdowns doesn't score you a draw, good maths kid.


It pretty much does, unless the other guy wins just about every other round. It's likely four points in a fight decided by twelve rounds. If a judge finds another three rounds to give Wilder aside from the two 10-8 rounds, that is a draw. Getting put on your ass is a pretty big deal in the grand scheme of things, particularly in rounds that you might have actually won had you not gone down.


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## onourway (May 19, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> It pretty much does, unless the other guy wins just about every other round. It's likely four points in a fight decided by twelve rounds. If a judge finds another two rounds to give Wilder aside from the two 10-8 rounds, that is a draw. Getting put on your ass is a pretty big deal in the grand scheme of things, particularly in rounds that you might have actually won had you not gone down.


Even worse maths.

If Wilder has 2 KDs and wins 2 rounds then he loses 114-112.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

onourway said:


> Even worse maths.
> If Wilder has 2 KDs and wins 2 rounds then he loses 114-112.


Shyt, I had gone and corrected myself after double-checking. Too late, I guess. You caught me. Didn't think there was anyone else here atm. LOL

Point stands, though. Judges aren't going to score shutouts for a guy barely winning rounds. They just aren't, wrong as that sounds.


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## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

My opinion, Fury should have got the W. Wilder will always get to say he put Fury to sleep though, because he did. I've been in my share of fights. I'd rather be the guy that put the other guy to sleep. Just being honest.

Fury is a good fighter, no disrespect to him. I actually wanted Fury to win because I enjoy his personality way more then Wilder's personality. Fury legit won that fight on the scorecards.


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## homebrand (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> He won all the rounds. Due to the knockdowns he lost points there, but he still outboxed Wilder in those rounds and the case can easily be made that they should have been even rounds. So let's just say he didn't lose any rounds then to be more accurate.


He didn't win all the rounds.

What does floored mean to you? :think1


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

What a fucking mad fight. Glad I watched live.

Yes, going by the rules, Fury won...... but let´s be honest the rules are just that, written rules by some men, I feel weird calling this fight a robbery when Fury got seriously hurt twice and really was OUT COLD in that last round. That right hand can´t hit you not even once ffs. The guy is limited but what a puncher.

And Jack Reiss is the best referee in the sport, a lot of other guys would call it out when Fury was sleeping like a baby there. I got worried about Fury´s health in that knockdown.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Mrboogie23 said:


> My opinion, Wilder should have got the W. Wilder will always get to say he put Fury to sleep though, because he did. I've been my share of fights. I'd rather be the guy that put the other guy to sleep. Just being honest.
> 
> Fury is a good fighter, no disrespect to him. I actually wanted Fury to win because I enjoy his personality way more then Wilder's personality.


Are you saying that you felt the count was too long?


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Mrboogie23 said:


> My opinion, Wilder should have got the W. Wilder will always get to say he put Fury to sleep though, because he did. I've been my share of fights. I'd rather be the guy that put the other guy to sleep. Just being honest.
> 
> Fury is a good fighter, no disrespect to him. I actually wanted Fury to win because I enjoy his personality way more then Wilder's personality.


A fight isn't scored by who you would rather be, it is a sporting contest with rules and a scoring system. Fury won easily, without question. Anyone saying otherwise simply doesn't know how to score a fight.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Vic said:


> What a fucking mad fight. Glad I watched live.
> 
> Yes, going by the rules, Fury won...... but let´s be honest the rules are just that, written rules by some men, I feel weird calling this fight a robbery when Fury got seriously hurt twice and really was OUT COLD in that last round. That right hand can´t hit you not even once ffs. The guy is limited but what a puncher.
> 
> And Jack Reiss is the best referee in the sport, a lot of other guys would call it out when Fury was sleeping like a baby there. I got worried about Fury´s health in that knockdown.


It doesn't matter what you feel, the facts are that Fury didn't lose. Fury proved his greatness by getting up from that, what a mad man.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

The most accurate scorecard would probably have Fury winning, but anyone pretending that he put on some sort of clinic is delusional.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

homebrand said:


> He didn't win all the rounds.
> 
> What does floored mean to you? :think1


He outboxed Wilder for every second of the fight. The first knockdown was clearly behind the head, and Wilder was badly hurt in the last round. Wilder landed three significant punches for the whole fight, a jab that bloodied Fury, then the two punches that decapitated Fury before the resurrection.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> The most accurate scorecard would probably have Fury winning, but anyone pretending that he put on some sort of clinic is delusional.


If you're landing punches while your opponent isn't landing a thing then that is boxing, that is a clinic. If you're clearly winning every round then that's a clinic.


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## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> A fight isn't scored by who you would rather be, it is a sporting contest with rules and a scoring system. Fury won easily, without question. Anyone saying otherwise simply doesn't know how to score a fight.


HOLY SHIT! I'm a massive idiot. I meant to say that Fury should have got the W. I'll edit. I'm sure I made lots of folks angry with my dumb mistake.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> If you're landing punches while your opponent isn't landing a thing then that is boxing, that is a clinic. If you're clearly winning every round then that's a clinic.


Each guy did very little landing. Fury landed a touch more and looked better doing it (two knockdowns notwithstanding). He really is an effective ring general more than anything.


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## thegee (Feb 10, 2017)

JUst watched the 12th round knock-down from the the crowds view. Fromthe time of getting back on his feet to resuming the fight took approx 15 seconds, which for anyone who as fought, is a lifetime. Regards Mervyn the Gee


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## homebrand (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> He outboxed Wilder for every second of the fight. The first knockdown was clearly behind the head, and Wilder was badly hurt in the last round. Wilder landed three significant punches for the whole fight, a jab that bloodied Fury, then the two punches that decapitated Fury before the resurrection.


Sorry.

Fury did not win ALL the rounds. 
Fury did not win EVERY second of the fight.

Besides, this is getting off my original point which was the fight is worth watching to someone who hasn't seen it, it wasn't some sort of uncompetitive beat down along the lines of Calzaghe/Lacy. The rounds went to Fury, but not by uncompetitive domination: it was a mostly tense fight, Fury winning with great concentration and discipline. The analogy I'd give was I'd say he was balancing on a high wire, knowing the slightest mistake could mean him falling off to his doom. It was tense and competitive, despite Fury scoring most of the rounds.


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> It doesn't matter what you feel, the facts are that Fury didn't lose. Fury proved his greatness by getting up from that, what a mad man.


Fury didn´t lose in fact, it was a draw.


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## Sweet Pea (Jun 22, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I know your instinct is to back the American dude, and I respect it, but he was clowned here. Fury won 9 rounds, no less than 8.


:lol:I was trolling a little, but c'mon, nationality plays exactly zero role in my boxing opinions.


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Fury was great, GREAT, at defending and he looked really slick in there. And I am a fan now after that crazy knockdown and the dude getting up suddenly like a movie character haha.

He did not land enough to say he won clearly though when he had two knockdowns against him, Boxing is not only defense you know.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

homebrand said:


> Sorry.
> 
> Fury did not win ALL the rounds.
> Fury did not win EVERY second of the fight.
> ...


I think it was very similar to Calzaghe-Lacy. Fury was giving him a boxing lesson, Wilder looked lost and was discouraged and rocked while catching punches with his face from every angle. The only difference was the knockdowns, with the illegal knockdown in round 9 giving Wilder some confidence.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Vic said:


> Fury was great, GREAT, at defending and he looked really slick in there. And I am a fan now after that crazy knockdown and the dude getting up suddenly like a movie character haha.
> 
> He did not land enough to say he won clearly though when he had two knockdowns against him, Boxing is not only defense you know.


He was landing his jab continuously. You would have an argument if Wilder was landing something himself, but he was literally landing nothing. Wilder had no defense or offence so it was a clear victory for Fury. You have no grounds to say he didn't do enough when Wilder did zero.


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## Tko6 (May 19, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> I think it was very similar to Calzaghe-Lacy. Fury was giving him a boxing lesson, Wilder looked lost and was discouraged and rocked while catching punches with his face from every angle. The only difference was the knockdowns, *with the illegal knockdown in round 9* giving Wilder some confidence.


What the fuck are you talking about? Fury was twisting his head all over the place and got caught behind the ear. Nothing illegal about it all. Protect yourself at all times, remember?


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Tko6 said:


> What the fuck are you talking about? Fury was twisting his head all over the place and got caught behind the ear. Nothing illegal about it all. Protect yourself at all times, remember?


What the fuck are you talking about? Wilder hammer fisted him to the back of the head. Protect yourself at all times doesn't mean block illegal blows or else it's your fault.


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## Kampioni (May 16, 2013)

Havent seen a better heavyweight fight in a long while. This will be one to remember for me.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Tko6 said:


> What the fuck are you talking about? Fury was twisting his head all over the place and got caught behind the ear. Nothing illegal about it all. Protect yourself at all times, remember?


http://www.abcboxing.com/abc-regulatory-guidelines/

A foul is an action by a boxer, identified by the referee, that does not meet the standard of a fair blow or the conduct of a responsible professional fighter. Fouls may include, but are not limited to, the following types of contact or acts:
1. Hitting an opponent below the navel or behind the ear;

Just because it's rarely enforced doesn't mean it's not illegal.


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## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

Dealt_with said:


> What the fuck are you talking about? Wilder hammer fisted him to the back of the head. Protect yourself at all times doesn't mean block illegal blows or else it's your fault.


Hammerfist? He did once and it certainly wasn't the 9th round knockdown. 


dyna said:


> http://www.abcboxing.com/abc-regulatory-guidelines/
> 
> A foul is an action by a boxer, identified by the referee, that does not meet the standard of a fair blow or the conduct of a responsible professional fighter. Fouls may include, but are not limited to, the following types of contact or acts:
> 1. Hitting an opponent below the navel or behind the ear;
> ...


Fury ducked into Wilder's punch.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

dyna said:


> http://www.abcboxing.com/abc-regulatory-guidelines/
> 
> A foul is an action by a boxer, identified by the referee, that does not meet the standard of a fair blow or the conduct of a responsible professional fighter. Fouls may include, but are not limited to, the following types of contact or acts:
> 1. Hitting an opponent below the navel or behind the ear;
> ...


But it has to be intentional. That rabbit punch was clearly accidental, due to Fury's movement.

IN FACT: looking at it again, above, Fury actually ducked illegally low. The rules clearly state you can't duck your head below your opponent's belt line. 
(for this very reason. Also, remember Kovalev vs Cleverly? Same problem / different controversy.) 
Well, take a look. Fury did it twice in succession.

Like I said earlier, it could rightly have been call not a KD, and Fury given 5 minutes, but no way was it a foul.


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## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

Wilder was abysmal. 

Don’t get me wrong, I was/am fully aware of his limitations and by no means was I expecting a devestating performance from him (I actually predicted just a points win for him with the help of the judges). 

But at the very least I expected more assertiveness against a style which can be taken advantage of with higher workrate. The very few times he did throw in volume (and they were so few!) he knocked Fury down twice.


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## Tko6 (May 19, 2013)

dyna said:


> http://www.abcboxing.com/abc-regulatory-guidelines/
> 
> A foul is an action by a boxer, identified by the referee, that does not meet the standard of a fair blow or the conduct of a responsible professional fighter. Fouls may include, but are not limited to, the following types of contact or acts:
> 1. Hitting an opponent below the navel or behind the ear;
> ...


Except the ref ruled it legal enough to call it a knockdown and not even Fury himself is complaining.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

DynamicMoves said:


> Hammerfist? He did once and it certainly wasn't the 9th round knockdown.
> 
> Fury ducked into Wilder's punch.


Is an unintentional headbut not a foul?
Why would an unintentional rabbit not be a foul?


Cableaddict said:


> But it has to be intentional. That rabbit punch was clearly accidental, due to Fury's movement.
> 
> IN FACT: looking at it again, above, Fury actually ducked illegally low. The rules clearly state you can't duck your head below your opponent's belt line. (for this very reason) Well, take a look. He did it twice in succession.
> 
> Like I said earlier, it could rightly have been call not a KD, and Fury given 5 minutes, but no way was it a foul.


Accidental fouls are still fouls.

And two wrongs don't make a right.



Tko6 said:


> Except the ref ruled it legal enough to call it a knockdown and not even Fury himself is complaining.


A ref not calling a foul, unintentional or not doesn't make it legal.
What do you think of Duran's knockout blow on Buchanan's balls? (which may or may not have been intentional)
By your logic it's not a foul because the ref ruled it legal enough to count Buchanan out.


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## Tko6 (May 19, 2013)

dyna said:


> Is an unintentional headbut not a foul?
> Why would an unintentional rabbit not be a foul?
> 
> Accidental fouls are still fouls.
> ...


Why are you arguing this nonsense? No-one cares. Not the fighters themselves, nor other pro's, or the media, or anyone. You're acting lie you just uncovered some mighty secret that no-one else knows. Newsflash, literally no-one gives a fuck apart from people concerned that you're trying to portray a fighter as a cheat when he's not. Fury's head was all over the place and he got caught with a wild swing, end of. He didn't even dispute the knockdown himself at the time, and he still doesn't now. Give it up ffs.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

DynamicMoves said:


> Hammerfist? He did once and it certainly wasn't the 9th round knockdown.
> 
> Fury ducked into Wilder's punch.


You're allowed to duck, the obligation is for the other fighter to not punch you in the back of the head. Wilder was punching down at Fury's head. It's very clear and there is no debate, it was a foul.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Tko6 said:


> Why are you arguing this nonsense? No-one cares. Not the fighters themselves, nor other pro's, or the media, or anyone. You're acting lie you just uncovered some mighty secret that no-one else knows. Newsflash, literally no-one gives a fuck apart from people concerned that you're trying to portray a fighter as a cheat when he's not. Fury's head was all over the place and he got caught with a wild swing, end of. He didn't even dispute the knockdown himself at the time, and he still doesn't now. Give it up ffs.


So because Wilder is a wild puncher it's to be expected and excused? Is Fury the sort of guy to complain? He didn't even complain about the absurd decision, that doesn't mean he doesn't know that he was robbed blind in the US.


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## Barack Obama (Jun 7, 2013)

New boxing phrase: "wilder derangement syndrome".


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## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

Fury definitely should have won that fight. I don't know how he came back from that knockdown. Kudos to Jack Reiss for actually giving a count


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Nice to see @Dealt_with putting people straight in here who seemingly have no idea how a boxing match works.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Cableaddict said:


> Well, that's it. I'm officially no longer a Wilder fan.
> 
> What an ass-fuckingly stupid fight plan he had. Almost no jab. No body work. No straight right hand.
> 
> ...


Wilder was looking for one right hand he got it in the 12th Fury got up, if you thought Wilder was going to do anything else you must not watch him

If that right hand left hook actually put Fury out we would all be saying Wilder is a beast, but Fury has a granite chin and amazing recovery skills, did you think Wilder was going to break him down with tactics and stop him? Lol


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Its crazy remember the Jacobs vs Pirog fight, Jacobs actually wasnt out he just took a few seconds to realise what happened then tried to get up (not saying he would have survived) but the ref pushed him back down

The exact same thing easily could have happened to Fury, Fury should have won and im glad the ref let him get up but I wouldnt have complained if the ref stopped it he didnt move for a few seconds he looked out, so Wilder basically did what he had to do, unless Wilder can somehow abandon his windmill when he hurts someone hes not going to beat Fury, he has to keep the punches straight, as a half hearted Wilder fan I cant be mad lol he did what he had to do it didnt work


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

dyna said:


> Is an unintentional headbut not a foul?
> .


An unintentional headbutt is an "unintentional foul" so sure, if you want to nit-pick. However it is NOT a foul in the context being discussed, and you know this. It's not subject to a warning or a points deduction. At most, it can result in the ref calling a "no contest."

Hello?

C'mon, Dyna, you know boxing. Stop losing your mind trying to defend a hopeless position.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> Wilder was looking for one right hand he got it in the 12th Fury got up, if you thought Wilder was going to do anything else you must not watch him
> 
> *If that right hand left hook actually put Fury out we would all be saying Wilder is a beast,* but Fury has a granite chin and amazing recovery skills, did you think Wilder was going to break him down with tactics and stop him? Lol


If that right hand left hook actually put Fury out we would all be saying Wilder is a beast, but we'd still be saying that he looked like total ass for 12 rounds and just got lucky.

Even die-hard Wilder supporters like me are saying this.

Because it's true. Wilder has gotten worse over the years. I think perhaps Mark Breeland is a shit trainer. 
Yes, that would be my guess.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> You're allowed to duck, the obligation is for the other fighter to not punch you in the back of the head. Wilder was punching down at Fury's head. It's very clear and there is no debate, it was a foul.


Sorry, D.W., but this time you're 100% wrong.

See my posts above. (Or just check any official rules list.)


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Sorry, D.W., but this time you're 100% wrong.
> 
> See my posts above. (Or just check any official rules list.)


You're making the claim the punch to the back of the head was unintentional? I don't buy that, Wilder aimed a punch down at the back of his head. Maybe Wilder was trying to throw an uppercut, but because he looked down and punched down, and landed on the back of the head.. how can you conclude that it was anything but an intententional illegal punch? Yes Wilder throws crazy looping windmill punches at times, so maybe it wasn't intentional. But as I said, he doesn't get a pass based on his sloppy technique, you isolate the punch and the incident as it happens without giving any other context and parameters to measure against. In boxing rules the person is generalised and the incident is isolated.

If it's an illegal punch (and it clearly was) then that means that Fury wins even with the absurd scorecards. Bad scorecards ruin boxing, and illegal blows that aren't recognised ruin boxing.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> You're making the claim the punch to the back of the head was unintentional? I don't buy that, Wilder aimed a punch down at the back of his head. Maybe Wilder was trying to throw an uppercut, but because he looked down and punched down, and landed on the back of the head..* how can you conclude that it was anything but an intententional illegal punch? ...*.


Because when he started the punch, it was aimed at Fury's temple. Do you expect him to stop in mid punch because Fury went illegally low?

Don't let your Wilder Hate turn you into a fool. Wilder looked bad enough in this fight, no need to invent things.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Cableaddict said:


> If that right hand left hook actually put Fury out we would all be saying Wilder is a beast, but we'd still be saying that he looked like total ass for 12 rounds and just got lucky.
> 
> Even die-hard Wilder supporters like me are saying this.
> 
> ...


Got lucky? Wilder's whole career has to been to look for 1 punch, it took him til the 12th round for Fury to be tired enough to not react to it but he still found it, Wilder was never good in the first place he just has a crazy right hand and good speed, plus he added a left hook on the end which means he improved

Die hard supporter that stops supporting his guy when he nearly loses? Lol you do realise Fury is a crazy awkward boxer who is 6 foot 9? Wilder not hitting him doesnt mean Wilder is a bum, you cant train for people like Fury


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> A case could even be made that round 9, despite Fury going down, should possibly have been scored even.
> 
> Wilder actually fought that badly.
> 
> ...


Sorry dude, but no. That's not how scoring works. If Fury dominated the rest of that round he could have had a 10-9 in Wilder's favor at best, unless he scored a knockdown himself.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Because when he started the punch, it was aimed at Fury's temple. Do you expect him to stop in mid punch because Fury went illegally low?
> 
> Don't let your Wilder Hate turn you into a fool. Wilder looked bad enough in this fight, no need to invent things.


No, I expect him not to punch in a downwards trajectory, to land directly on the back of his opponents head. See Lomachenko vs Rigondeaux for a way to throw legal punches when someone is ducking. I have no Wilder hate, I was hoping he would win before the fight because I thought it would be better for boxing/the heavyweight division. I like Wilder a lot as an athlete and as a person, I'm really disappointed that his boxing skills are worse than I thought.


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## alternative hypothesis (Oct 29, 2018)

Uncle Rico said:


> Wilder was abysmal.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I was/am fully aware of his limitations and by no means was I expecting a devestating performance from him (I actually predicted just a points win for him with the help of the judges).
> 
> But at the very least I expected more assertiveness against a style which can be taken advantage of with higher workrate. The very few times he did throw in volume (and they were so few!) he knocked Fury down twice.


You say you are fully aware of Wilder's limitations and then act surprised by them. Wilder doesn't box. He knocks people out. That is what he does. He is very good at it too and was only a fraction of a second from knocking Fury out.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> Got lucky? Wilder's whole career has to been to look for 1 punch,


That's just not true, and you clearly haven't seen much of him prior to maybe Fraudley.

But he's literally been getting more & more 1-dimensional with eery passing fight, & I'm done defending the clown, so whatever .......


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Juiceboxbiotch said:


> Sorry dude, but no. That's not how scoring works. If Fury dominated the rest of that round he could have had a 10-9 in Wilder's favor at best, unless he scored a knockdown himself.


Exactly. In order to not have a 10-8 scored against you after getting dropped, you have to come back and dominate the round. An "even" round can't logically be viewed as even if one guy got put on his ass.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> That's just not true, and you clearly haven't seen much of him prior to maybe Fraudley.
> 
> But he's literally been getting more & more 1-dimensional with eery passing fight, & I'm done defending the clown, so whatever .......


Which Wilder fight do you feel best displays Wilder's versatility in the ring? What is his best performance?


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Which Wilder fight do you feel best displays Wilder's versatility in the ring? What is his best performance?


Let me work on that for you.

It will take some time, and I fear it will be a big waste as most folks don;t even want to consider the truth.

Well... maybe if I get a chance.


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## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

alternative hypothesis said:


> You say you are fully aware of Wilder's limitations and then act surprised by them. Wilder doesn't box. He knocks people out. That is what he does. He is very good at it too and was only a fraction of a second from knocking Fury out.


Yeah, sometimes it helps if you read the entire post.

Him not having the ability to box, is precisely why I was disappointed in him thinking he _could_. And his most valuable asset of being able to knock people out, is precisely why I mentioned he should have been more assertive. The few times he did throw punches in bunches, he made that power count because one or two of them at least managed to connect.


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

My score was 115-111 to Fury. On first watch, I made notes that rounds 1, 2 and 5 were close, so I rewatched 2 and 5 because I scored them to Fury and wanted to double check if there was a way it would be fair to go to 10-10 or the other way. Round 2...nope. It was more clearly Fury on the second watch. Round 5...Fury and AT A PUSH...if you wanted to give Wilder every advantage in the scoring...10-10.

So I would accept 115-112 as a score, and if you were ridiculously generous and wanted to give him a share of round 2...disagree totally, but it's not disgusting bias, and it felt closer on first watch. So I could just, just accept 115-113.

The two most dominant rounds of the fight were 4 and 10 to Fury. More one sided that the 10-8 rounds Wilder got. Also...the 9th round KD should have been deemed an unintentional foul and not counted. 

The reason I consider this a robbery is that there is no justifiable way 2,3,4,6,7,8,10 and 11 to Wilder. There isn't for 5 either, but at least it would not be blatant cheating if someone thought his misses were aggression that warranted more worth than they did. Let's say you gave Wilder the 5th and a totally undeserved share of round 2...

The score would be 114-113 to Fury. To have it a draw is not acceptable. To have it to Wilder by any margin is outrageous. To have it 115-111 to Wilder is criminal.


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

Strike said:


> My score was 115-111 to Fury. On first watch, I made notes that rounds 1, 2 and 5 were close, so I rewatched 2 and 5 because I scored them to Fury and wanted to double check if there was a way it would be fair to go to 10-10 or the other way. Round 2...nope. It was more clearly Fury on the second watch. Round 5...Fury and AT A PUSH...if you wanted to give Wilder every advantage in the scoring...10-10.
> 
> So I would accept 115-112 as a score, and if you were ridiculously generous and wanted to give him a share of round 2...disagree totally, but it's not disgusting bias, and it felt closer on first watch. So I could just, just accept 115-113.
> 
> ...


I don't think it's that black and white man. For example, ESPN scored it 114-112 for Wilder. This has been said over and over, but people scoring at ringside aren't hearing the commentary and aren't getting different camera angles. Even watching with the sound muted, you have a different experience than anyone sitting ringside.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Let me work on that for you.
> 
> It will take some time, and I fear it will be a big waste as most folks don;t even want to consider the truth.
> 
> Well... maybe if I get a chance.


I think that it's sorta telling that someone who considered himself a Wilder fan doesn't have an offhand reference to a great all around performance of his. I like Wilder, too, but he is what he is.

He probably looked his best against Stiverne x2. Quick, heavy jab. Straight punches. Solid footwork. He's probably never been more comfortable on that type of stage.

I don't fault him for looking bad against Fury because I remember how awkward someone as technically sound as Lennox Lewis looked when he had to deal with Vitaly's height. It's not easily for tall guys to suddenly have to give away leverage.


----------



## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

Juiceboxbiotch said:


> I don't think it's that black and white man. For example, ESPN scored it 114-112 for Wilder. This has been said over and over, but people scoring at ringside aren't hearing the commentary and aren't getting different camera angles. Even watching with the sound muted, you have a different experience than anyone sitting ringside.


It is cut and dry to me and ESPN should be fucking ashamed of themselves. To have 112 for Fury is inexcusable. Utterly. I watched it on a Russian website today, so understood nothing of the commentary. The fucking cretin who scored it 115-111 for Wilder scored Wilder round 4. :lol: It was one of the most one sided rounds in the fight.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

It IS a robbery by definition because there can be no rationale for scoring the fight 115-111 for Wilder outside of corruption. Not even incompetence explains a 115-111 for Wilder.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> It IS a robbery by definition because there can be no rationale for scoring the fight 115-111 for Wilder outside of corruption. Not even incompetence explains a 115-111 for Wilder.


But what was he robbed of? A close decision victory, in which he was decked twice and nearly kod? A draw? 115-111 for Fury is really just a difference of two rounds from the final result of the fight (draw), and it's not like Fury was out there kicking the living shit out of Wilder and having rounds stolen from him. This isn't Lewis/Holyfield 1.

115-111 Wilder is one inept card... something we see in just about every big fight nowadays. Fury got the nod (rightfully) on one card, and would have gotten the nod on a second card had he not gotten himself decked hard in the last round, so Tyson Fury was ultimately robbed by a left hook.

Tyson Fury would have been a rightful winner, but he simply did not perform outside the margin of human error to the point that we can cry conspiracy.

Good, entertaining fight. They can do it again.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> That's just not true, and you clearly haven't seen much of him prior to maybe Fraudley.
> 
> But he's literally been getting more & more 1-dimensional with eery passing fight, & I'm done defending the clown, so whatever .......


But you don't think it has anything to do with him fighting far better opposition?

Of course Wilder is going to have a great jab against a C level fighter that he dwarfs physically, obviously he's going to be able to show some boxing skills and box from a distance. The difference now is that he is finally fighting top level opposition, and not by coincidence, the two best guys he fought made him look silly for the majority of the fight. It's not because he's abandoned some of his skillset, he'd have to have those skills to begin with, and he's never shown that he has against good enough competition.

His limitations now are a product of his pathetically slow development as a pro. If you fight complete bums for 40 fights, you're going to develop bad habits, you're going to neglect certain areas of your game and ultimately stagnate your growth.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> But what was he robbed of? A close decision victory, in which he was decked twice and nearly kod? A draw? 115-111 for Fury is really just a difference of two rounds from the final result of the fight (draw), and it's not like Fury was out there kicking the living shit out of Wilder and having rounds stolen from him. This isn't Lewis/Holyfield 1.
> 
> 115-111 Wilder is one inept card... something we see in just about every big fight nowadays. Fury got the nod (rightfully) on one card, and would have gotten the nod on a second card had he not gotten himself decked hard in the last round, so Tyson Fury was ultimately robbed by a left hook.
> 
> ...


I mean you can reiterate the knockdowns, but it doesn't discount the other 10 rounds. You also know too much about the sport to insinuate that being decked twice alone determines the result of a 12 round fight.

In answer to your question, Fury was robbed of equal opportunity.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I mean you can reiterate the knockdowns, but it doesn't discount the other 10 rounds. You also know too much about the sport to insinuate that being decked twice alone determines the result of a 12 round fight.
> 
> In answer to your question, Fury was robbed of equal opportunity.


The other ten rounds consisted of Fury controlling distance with negativity and outlanding Wilder 7 to 6. He was winning with ring generalship, which is far more subjective than left and right hands.

He was robbed of an equal opportunity? Fine. We can go with that, but I'm not going to be outraged by something like that because scoring in boxing routinely sucks and I've seen worse cards, worse robberies... fights stolen from far more dominant performers.

Some would say Wilder was robbed of a ko...


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> The other ten rounds consisted of Fury controlling distance with negativity and outlanding Wilder 7 to 6. He was winning with ring generalship, which is far more subjective than left and right hands.


He was winning by controlling the ring, making Wilder miss and landing sharp jabs followed by occasional right hands. Often referred to as 'boxing'.

Bottom line, he was winning. So far I've not seen anyone argue otherwise.



> He was robbed of an equal opportunity? Fine. We can go with that, but I'm not going to be outraged by something like that because scoring in boxing routinely sucks and I've seen worse cards, worse robberies... fights stolen from far more dominant performers.


I'm not outraged. I'm just saying that a scorecard of 115-111 is impossible to justify and incompetence alone isn't likely to have been the cause. :sad


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> He was winning by controlling the ring, making Wilder miss and landing sharp jabs followed by occasional right hands. Often referred to as 'boxing'.
> 
> Bottom line, he was winning. So far I've not seen anyone argue otherwise.
> 
> I'm not outraged. I'm just saying that a scorecard of 115-111 is impossible to justify and incompetence alone isn't likely to have been the cause. :sad


I've seen boxing done better. Alot better. And both guys were doing their fair share of missing. A judge isn't always going to respond well to a 6'9" 260 lb guy fighting negatively and doing the bare minimum required to bank rounds. Tough.

But he still had it won, which begs the question:

Are you calling it a conspiracy, then? Suggesting that the Mexican judge was paid off?


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> I've seen boxing done better. Alot better. And both guys were doing their fair share of missing. A judge isn't always going to respond well to a 6'9" 260 lb guy fighting negatively and doing the bare minimum required to bank rounds. Tough.


I'm not arguing it's the greatest boxing display I've ever seen, I'm arguing that he was clearly better than Wilder on the night. I find it strange how you're pursuing this. It's almost like you had a dog in the fight.



> Are you calling it a conspiracy, then? Suggesting that the Mexican judge was paid off?


If you want to use the word conspiracy, then sure. I'm suggesting the Mexican was dishonest in his scoring. I don't know if he was paid off, I don't know if he has reason to dislike Fury, but incompetence alone doesn't explain how you get to 115-111.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I'm not arguing it's the greatest boxing display I've ever seen, I'm arguing that he was clearly better than Wilder on the night. I find it strange how you're pursuing this. It's almost like you had a dog in the fight.
> 
> If you want to use the word conspiracy, then sure. I'm suggesting the Mexican was dishonest in his scoring. I don't know if he was paid off, I don't know if he has reason to dislike Fury, but incompetence alone doesn't explain how you get to 115-111.


Yeah, I was rooting for Wilder. I still would have scored it for Fury, though, fully aware that I was being -in some way- conned into giving him full 10 point rounds for landing seven punches and staying away from his opponent. Some judges don't like being conned and score a few rounds for the other guy to keep the fight close.

For what it's worth, the "corrupt" judge had Wilder up by only two points going in to the last round, then had to give Wilder the 10-8 for a knockdown that he certainly did not predict. The kd highlighted what was just an obligatory bad scorecard, imo.

As far as paying off a judge, Deontay Wilder just doesn't strike me as someone looking to win a fight on the cards.


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## Boxfan (Jul 26, 2013)

Barack Obama said:


> That fight was a draw and Trump wins in landslide 2020


Thats one statement of fact and probably a correct prediction.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> Yeah, I was rooting for Wilder. I still would have scored it for Fury, though, fully aware that I was being -in some way- conned into giving him full 10 point rounds for landing seven punches and staying away from his opponent. Some people don't like being conned and score a few rounds for the other guy to keep the fight close.


Well then your tone makes sense now. You wanted Wilder to win. That's fine.

But to suggest Tyson was conning people with his performance is troubling. Deeply disrespectful. But I get it, you're not happy the man you was supporting was bettered. I've been there. I still don't think the appropriate response is to bring down the opponent, who hadn't fought a worthwhile fight in 3 years...but hey-ho.

You've spoken a lot about Fury's performance, now tell me about Wilder's....



> For what it's worth, the "corrupt" judge had Wilder up by only two points going in to the last round, then had to give Wilder the 10-8 for a knockdown that he certainly did not predict. The kd highlighted what was just sn obligatory bad scorecard, imo.


It's lunacy to have Wilder up by 2 points going into the final round. Can't be justified by any reasonable measure.



> As far as paying off a judge, Deontay Wilder just doesn't strike me as someone looking to win a fight on the cards.


I never suggested Wilder personally paid off anybody.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Well then your tone makes sense now. You wanted Wilder to win. That's fine.
> 
> But to suggest Tyson was conning people with his performance is troubling. Deeply disrespectful. But I get it, you're not happy the man you was supporting was bettered. I've been there. I still don't think the appropriate response is to bring down the opponent, who hadn't fought a worthwhile fight in 3 years...but hey-ho.
> 
> ...


I'll go bad card with you, but I will not go conspiracy and corruption with you; not with this sort of fight. That is all I'm saying.

Perhaps con is too strong a word, but Fury's style is exactly why people were reluctant to give him full credit for beating Klitschko in the first place. His style just has a flukish aura about it, where the story becomes less about he's doing, more about what his opponent isn't doing.

Which leads to your question... I thought Wilder fought poorly and spent too long looking for one shot. But he wasn't going to touch Fury up consistently anyway, if Wlad himself couldn't muster any sustained offense. He did well in putting him down twice and nearly stopped him while giving up 50 pounds.

Tall guys don't know what to do when they are suddenly looking up at their opponent, and it's made worse when that opponent is an awkward, annoyingly negative guy with good footwork, upper body movement, and loose arms.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

I disagree with you that Tyson Fury’s performance was negative and I think it’s naive to disregard the possibility of corruption in boxing of all sports, otherwise I don’t want to argue too vehemently here. I think you’re a good poster and I respect your opinions, but I do feel you aren’t quite giving Fury the credit he deserves. This was not another Klitschko performance. He landed some lovely shots and showed hearts and powers of recovery like I’ve never seen. But let’s face it, a couple more pages of us going back and forth isn’t likely to change your mind, so maybe we should just respectfully disagree on that particular point.

Do you think that’s fair enough?


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## Werety (Aug 22, 2013)

Why are people acting surprised that Wilder was getting soundly outboxed? He found a way to land his punch of doom that no one else would've even gotten up from. Not to mention the ref gave Fury a lot of extra time to clear his head after he got up from the KD which may very well have saved him from being finished. Fury definitely won but that punch alone makes it a close fight in my eyes (obviously not on the scorecards, Fury clearly won). A rematch to me is still 50/50 even after watching the results of the first fight.


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## desertlizard (Dec 29, 2015)

I think both guys are bums even AJ is there's no one worth watching at the division sadly but fury put the moves here and he did deserve the W


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> I think that it's sorta telling that someone who considered himself a Wilder fan doesn't have an offhand reference to a great all around performance of his. ......


I wouldn't do it without specific details, fight-by-fight. That will take time.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I disagree with you that Tyson Fury's performance was negative and I think it's naive to disregard the possibility of corruption in boxing of all sports, otherwise I don't want to argue too vehemently here. I think you're a good poster and I respect your opinions, but I do feel you aren't quite giving Fury the credit he deserves. This was not another Klitschko performance. He landed some lovely shots and showed hearts and powers of recovery like I've never seen. But let's face it, a couple more pages of us going back and forth isn't likely to change your mind, so maybe we should just respectfully disagree on that particular point.
> 
> Do you think that's fair enough?


We'll just have to disagree, then. The guy landed 84 punches over twelve rounds and hardly threw anything meaningful with the intent of hurting his opponent. This is a 6'9" 260 lb man we are talking about. If that isn't a negative performance, I don't know what is. People like Floyd Mayweather would routinely get criticized for being negative. Tyson Fury makes Floyd look like Ray Leonard and is getting praised for it.

We can agree to disagree. That's okay. Everyone seems to be averse to discussions around here for whatever reason, which seems odd for a message board.


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## Philly Shell (Sep 4, 2018)

Boxed Ears said:


> There's fighting blood in Fury's blood. The blood of a fighting man, generations of fighting men from a fighting clan of a fighting people who have had to overcome fights with their fight...and blood. Warriors. Forever. Forever and ever. Together.


Delightfully understated.


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## Nigelbro (May 22, 2013)

Wilder said in a post fight interview that he is used to people ducking his punches but Fury was slipping them and putting his head straight back in the pocket. Take from that what you wil. 
I find it interesting that the first KD came from a duck - jab, paw, overhand - he forced Fury to duck. It was a good move regardless of where it landed. He also had lower punch accuracy than he usually has, is that poor by Wilder or a credit to Tyson?


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> We'll just have to disagree, then. The guy landed 84 punches over twelve rounds and hardly threw anything meaningful with the intent of hurting his opponent. This is a 6'9" 260 lb man we are talking about. If that isn't a negative performance, I don't know what is. People like Floyd Mayweather would routinely get criticized for being negative. Tyson Fury makes Floyd look like Ray Leonard and is getting praised for it.
> 
> We can agree to disagree. That's okay. Everyone seems to be averse to discussions around here for whatever reason, which seems odd for a message board.


Nothing can be achieved by continually reiterating the same points. If we continued, that's what would happen. I am happy to have a discussion but I don't really know where to go from here. Tyson soundly outboxed your guy amd yet you are more interested in downplaying Fury's performance rather than criticising Wilder's. That tells me we disagree on a fundamental level. That's why I suggested agreeing to disagree, not because I'm averse to discussion.


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## alternative hypothesis (Oct 29, 2018)

We get served up a truly memorable heavyweight contest and yet people waste their time trying to detract from it. Why?


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

alternative hypothesis said:


> We get served up a truly memorable heavyweight contest and yet people waste their time trying to detract from it. Why?


Blows my mind.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

alternative hypothesis said:


> We get served up a truly memorable heavyweight contest and yet people waste their time trying to detract from it. Why?


Yes. Let's have a perpetual moment of silence as we fail, as a boxing message board, to even bother discussing one of the more significant fights within the boxing landscape.

All can be true and we could still have gotten a tremendous heavyweight contest. It could have been a wildly compelling fight. Wilder could have fought poorly. Fury could have outboxed Wilder in a negative way. We could all have been on the edge of our seat watching to see if Wilder could land one big shot to undo an entire night's work, and then felt the rush of Fury rising from the canvas and beating the count...

... But let's just refrain from talking about the fight and stating obvious things because someone's feelings might get hurt.

Good stuff.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Nigelbro said:


> Wilder said in a post fight interview that he is used to people ducking his punches but Fury was slipping them and putting his head straight back in the pocket. Take from that what you wil.
> I find it interesting that the first KD came from a duck - jab, paw, overhand - he forced Fury to duck. It was a good move regardless of where it landed. He also had lower punch accuracy than he usually has, is that poor by Wilder or a credit to Tyson?


Both. Fury is pretty hard to hit cleanly, but Wilder is also accustomed to having a great deal of leverage to land his shots, which he simply did not have against Fury. Fury also jabbed with Wilder, which took away Deontay's ability to probe and measure his right hand.


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## nvs (May 16, 2013)

Same people here who thought Wilder won probably contradict themselves and rightfully so think Bradley won against Provodnikov.
Now thay i think about it Bradley Provodnikov is a good example.
Bradley almost KO’d several times but still managed to win because the judges scored the fight correctly.


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## Dustaine (Jul 25, 2012)

nvs said:


> Same people here who thought Wilder won probably contradict themselves and rightfully so think Bradley won against Provodnikov.
> Now thay i think about it Bradley Provodnikov is a good example.
> Bradley almost KO'd several times but still managed to win because the judges scored the fight correctly.


If you are comparing this fight to Bradley vs Provo you shouldn't be discussing boxing. Leave now.


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## nvs (May 16, 2013)

Dustaine said:


> If you are comparing this fight to Bradley vs Provo you shouldn't be discussing boxing. Leave now.


I am comparing the fact that like Fury, Bradley was close getting KO'd.
Bradley won the fight since that fight scored properly by the judges and i think the result was fair unlike wilder vs Fury.
My point in a nutshell was that Wilder vs Fury and Bradley vs Provodnikov share similarities yet the result is totally different.

You can elaborate what you think that was wrong what i wrote?


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

Nigelbro said:


> I find it interesting that the first KD came from a duck - jab, paw, overhand - he forced Fury to duck. It was a good move regardless of where it landed.


I cannot agree that something is a good punch "regardless of where it landed". So a low blow is a good punch if it lands after being set up by a jab? No way. Fury was not below the waistline when it landed, he took evasive action that was legal, slipped a punch and was hit with a rabbit punch that is illegal. Now, I don't think Wilder intended it at all, he was just throwing and trying to land...fair enough. Also, I don't have a big issue with it being given as a KD...but technically it should have been deemed an unintentional foul and not a KD.

Here are two screen grabs I did of the shot landing, taken from two different replays and it is clear as day that it's a rabbit punch, and that Fury does not have his head at an illegally low level either.


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## alternative hypothesis (Oct 29, 2018)

steviebruno said:


> Yes. Let's have a perpetual moment of silence as we fail, as a boxing message board, to even bother discussing one of the more significant fights within the boxing landscape.
> 
> All can be true and we could still have gotten a tremendous heavyweight contest. It could have been a wildly compelling fight. Wilder could have fought poorly. Fury could have outboxed Wilder in a negative way. We could all have been on the edge of our seat watching to see if Wilder could land one big shot to undo an entire night's work, and then felt the rush of Fury rising from the canvas and beating the count...
> 
> ...


That glass you can only see as half empty others are seeing as half full.


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## Nigelbro (May 22, 2013)

Strike said:


> I cannot agree that something is a good punch "regardless of where it landed". So a low blow is a good punch if it lands after being set up by a jab? No way. Fury was not below the waistline when it landed, he took evasive action that was legal, slipped a punch and was hit with a rabbit punch that is illegal. Now, I don't think Wilder intended it at all, he was just throwing and trying to land...fair enough. Also, I don't have a big issue with it being given as a KD...but technically it should have been deemed an unintentional foul and not a KD.
> 
> Here are two screen grabs I did of the shot landing, taken from two different replays and it is clear as day that it's a rabbit punch, and that Fury does not have his head at an illegally low level either.
> 
> ...


That's not what I meant. I agree that it is an illegal punch.
I was referring to the set up, Wilder making Fury duck. He said that most people duck his punches as they are smaller than him, the greatest challenged with Fury was his ability to slip with very little head movement and then fire back with counter combos. In the instance we are talking about I think that Wilder just instinctively threw because he didn't get as many opportunities as he is used to.
And as for the video floating around that said the punch missed then it must be a miracle that Tyson has a lump behind his ear the size of a tennis ball.


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## HumansSuck (Nov 4, 2015)

Haven't seen it yet but I'm assuming Fury shut down Wilder's jab like he did Klitschko's jab. It's not easy to stick the jab on someone who slips easier than you, is longer than you and counters you with their own speed.

That's the unique thing about Fury. Vitali had a similar advantage. Being that big you can fight off the back foot and still hit someone with a stiff jab. This gives you all the defensive advantages as well as the offensive advantage of being in range to counter.


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## Davie (Dec 21, 2017)

steviebruno said:


> Yes. Let's have a perpetual moment of silence as we fail, as a boxing message board, to even bother discussing one of the more significant fights within the boxing landscape.
> 
> All can be true and we could still have gotten a tremendous heavyweight contest. It could have been a wildly compelling fight. Wilder could have fought poorly. Fury could have outboxed Wilder in a negative way. We could all have been on the edge of our seat watching to see if Wilder could land one big shot to undo an entire night's work, and then felt the rush of Fury rising from the canvas and beating the count...
> 
> ...


They maybe just read the threads where you discuss religion and realised there is absolutely zero chance you will concede as little as an inch of ground and thought better of it.

Is it the topic or the poster they are refusing to engage with Stevie?


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

alternative hypothesis said:


> That glass you can only see as half empty others are seeing as half full.


LOL

Why not give Tyson Fury credit for who he is, instead of making him into something he isn't? He's great at what he does. We don't need to make him into some virtuoso performer... a creator of masterpieces that are too taboo to even discuss.

The contrast between him and Deontay Wilder is a wildly entertaining spectacle and one that I would love to see again.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Davie said:


> They maybe just read the threads where you discuss religion and realised there is absolutely zero chance you will concede as little as an inch of ground and thought better of it.
> 
> Is it the topic or the poster they are refusing to engage with Stevie?


Fine, don't talk to me. Talk to each other, then. A f*cking heavyweight title fight happened and the place is a ghost town. At least give me something to read.


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## Davie (Dec 21, 2017)

steviebruno said:


> Fine, don't talk to me. Talk to each other, then. A f*cking heavyweight title fight happened and the place is a ghost town. At least give me something to read.


The boards are dominated by people talking about Fury vs Wilder, what are you talking about.

There's just no poiint flogging a dead horse.

Fury outboxed your man, that's all that needs to be said on the matter. It was a fine boxing performance and exactly the tactics and game plan required for the opponent he faced.
Feel free to refute that, I'll argue it with you all day


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Strike said:


> I cannot agree that something is a good punch "regardless of where it landed". So a low blow is a good punch if it lands after being set up by a jab? No way. Fury was not below the waistline when it landed, he took evasive action that was legal, slipped a punch and was hit with a rabbit punch that is illegal. Now, I don't think Wilder intended it at all, he was just throwing and trying to land...fair enough. Also, I don't have a big issue with it being given as a KD...but technically it should have been deemed an unintentional foul and not a KD.
> 
> Here are two screen grabs I did of the shot landing, taken from two different replays and it is clear as day that it's a rabbit punch, and that Fury does not have his head at an illegally low level either.


Did the blow look illegal in live action? To me, it almost looked like Wilder landed a grazing shot before that one which made Fury lose his balance. If the ref interpreted it that way, he may also interpreted that Fury was already on the way down and the rabbit punch was nothing more than another grazing shot which caught him as he was going down.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Davie said:


> The boards are dominated by people talking about Fury vs Wilder, what are you talking about.
> 
> There's just no poiint flogging a dead horse.
> 
> ...


Why do guys keep calling Wilder "my man"? That's rather silly.

Link me to the discussions so I can read them. Thanks.


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> Did the blow look illegal in live action? To me, it almost looked like Wilder landed a grazing shot before that one which made Fury lose his balance. If the ref interpreted that way, he may also interpreted that Fury was already on the way down and the rabbit punch was nothing more than another grazing shot which caught him as he was going down.


To me it immediately looked like it was back of the head. But, like I said, I don't have some huge issue over it...it was not an intentional foul, it happened quickly and Fury did not complain. But, the reality is that it was a foul shot, and had that been called as such, it changes things on the scorecards significantly. Even assuming that the round was scored to Wilder, it would have made it a win to Fury at the final result.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Strike said:


> To me it immediately looked like it was back of the head. But, like I said, I don't have some huge issue over it...it was not an intentional foul, it happened quickly and Fury did not complain. But, the reality is that it was a foul shot, and had that been called as such, it changes things on the scorecards significantly. Even assuming that the round was scored to Wilder, it would have made it a win to Fury at the final result.


It's on the back of the head. Absolutely. But grazing back of the head shots are routinely ignored when a guy already appears to be on the way down. The punch landed as part of a combination, which is how the ref could have possibly misinterpreted the situation.


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> It's on the back of the head. Absolutely. But grazing back of the head shots are routinely ignored when a guy already appears to be on the way down. The punch landed as part of a combination, which is how the ref could have possibly misinterpreted the situation.


Yeah he could have done, but it was not a case of him already going down, he had just slipped a shot and it was solely that rabbit punch that put him down. I think the ref just missed it, saw a punch thrown, didn't quite see where it landed, but saw Fury drop. Other than that, the ref did a fantastic job, so no big criticism of him.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

[QUOTE="Strike, post: 3594679, member: 66"Here are two screen grabs I did of the shot landing, taken from two different replays and* it is clear as day that it's a rabbit punch, and that Fury does not have his head at an illegally low level either.*
[/QUOTE]

2 problems with your analysis:

1: It's not a rabbit punch, it's a standard right cross. When the punch started, fury's head was up and Wilder aimed at his temple. It's Fury's fault for putting his head there.

It's an unintentional foul, as clear as day.

2: If you go a few frames further, you wll clearly see that Fury went even further down, blatantly gainst the rules, and he did it twice in a row.

Whatever anyone wants that to mean.

-----------------------------

IMO it should not have been scored a KD, but also Fury should have been given a warning.

- But as others have said, you can't blame Jack Reese. That was a tough one, and he did a great job overall.


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> 1: It's not a rabbit punch, it's a standard right cross. When the punch started, fury's head was up and Wilder aimed at his temple. It's Fury's fault for putting his head there.


:lol: By definition, it is a rabbit punch. It doesn't matter whether it was "Fury's fault" or not...if the shot lands in a place that is illegal, it is an unintentional foul. If someone goes to throw a body shot, but the opponent moves and gets hit in the balls, it remains a low blow even if it was an accident and caused by the person who got hit. Wilder was not aiming for a rabbit punch, he was aiming for Fury's temple or jawline, but Fury's duck meant it landed in an illegal spot.



Cableaddict said:


> 2: If you go a few frames further, you wll clearly see that Fury went even further down, blatantly gainst the rules, and he did it twice in a row.


 Yes, he went further down because he had been punched in the back of the head. :lol: The force of the punch pushed his head down. There was nothing remotely against the rules, his head was never below waist line until he was punched below waist line.



Cableaddict said:


> IMO it should not have been scored a KD, but also Fury should have been given a warning.


Ludicrous. Ducking and weaving is part of boxing defence. It breaks the rules if you duck your head below the waistline. He didn't do this.

Here are frame shots as the punch is thrown, as it lands and after it has landed. None of this is Wilder's fault, but that does not stop it being a foul..it is unintentional.

Here are their positions as Wilder throws...Fury is rolling and his chin is level with Wilder's lower chest. The top of Fury's head is just below Wilder's chin...not even CLOSE to being an illegal duck.










Here is their position as the punch lands on Fury. The top of Fury's head is now level with Wilder's chest, and Fury's chin is now in line with Wilder's belly button. Perfectly legal duck, classic bob and weave.










Here is Fury AFTER the punch has connected and passed by. Even now, AFTER the force of the punch has pushed his head further down, the back of his head is inline with the top of Wilder's belt line and his chin is just below the bottom of the belt line. At this point, Fury is on his way down from the punch.










So...he didn't ever duck illegally low. He was hit on the back of the head as he took classic, legal action to evade an incoming punch. It was not intentional by Wilder, which is why it was an UNINTENTIONAL foul and not a foul. After the punch landed and he was falling down, his head was still only just at belt level/below belt level.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Strike said:


> :lol: By definition, it is a rabbit punch. It doesn't matter whether it was "Fury's fault" or not...if the shot lands in a place that is illegal, it is an unintentional foul. If someone goes to throw a body shot, but the opponent moves and gets hit in the balls, it remains a low blow even if it was an accident and caused by the person who got hit. Wilder was not aiming for a rabbit punch, he was aiming for Fury's temple or jawline, but Fury's duck meant it landed in an illegal spot.
> 
> Yes, he went further down because he had been punched in the back of the head. :lol: The force of the punch pushed his head down. There was nothing remotely against the rules, his head was never below waist line until he was punched below waist line.
> 
> ...


And you're telling me that, at the exact time of this screen grab, Wilder was aiming for the back of Fury's head?

*****, please ......


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## Tko6 (May 19, 2013)

From what I've seen, Wilder fans are the black version of Klitards. They wouldn't give a fuck about him or this fight if he was a white dude from eastern Europe.


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## Alf (Jul 26, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> We'll just have to disagree, then. The guy landed 84 punches over twelve rounds and hardly threw anything meaningful with the intent of hurting his opponent. This is a 6'9" 260 lb man we are talking about. If that isn't a negative performance, I don't know what is. People like Floyd Mayweather would routinely get criticized for being negative. Tyson Fury makes Floyd look like Ray Leonard and is getting praised for it.
> 
> We can agree to disagree. That's okay. Everyone seems to be averse to discussions around here for whatever reason, which seems odd for a message board.


FYI, the British forum is consistently far more active and tends to have far more knowledgeable posters. That isn't meant as a dig at this one, but I do come here sometimes and every thread tends to move along so much slower, that it's difficult to get any good discussion going.

Maybe pop your head into that one and get involved if you feel the discussion is moving too slow here.


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> And you're telling me that, at the exact time of this screen grab, Wilder was aiming for the back of Fury's head?
> 
> *****, please ......


Jesus fucking christ. No. Here is what I said in the very post you just quoted...



Strike said:


> *Wilder was not aiming for a rabbit punch, he was aiming for Fury's temple or jawline..*.





Strike said:


> *None of this is Wilder's fault,* but that does not stop it being a foul..it is unintentional.





Strike said:


> *It was not intentional by Wilder*, which is why it was an UNINTENTIONAL foul and not a foul.


How do you read those lines and read it as me saying Wilder was aiming for the back of Fury's head? :lol:

It does not matter where he was aiming. It matters where it lands. If you aim for the ribs, but hit the balls...it's a low blow...intentional or unintentional. If you accidentally hit someone behind the head because they duck, it is an unintentional foul. You are not penalised for it, because it was an accident, but the person should not be counted as if the blow that dropped them was legal, because it wasn't. It's that simple. And those are the rules of the sport.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Strike said:


> Yeah he could have done, but it was not a case of him already going down, he had just slipped a shot and it was solely that rabbit punch that put him down. I think the ref just missed it, saw a punch thrown, didn't quite see where it landed, but saw Fury drop. Other than that, the ref did a fantastic job, so no big criticism of him.





Alf said:


> FYI, the British forum is consistently far more active and tends to have far more knowledgeable posters. That isn't meant as a dig at this one, but I do come here sometimes and every thread tends to move along so much slower, that it's difficult to get any good discussion going.
> 
> Maybe pop your head into that one and get involved if you feel the discussion is moving too slow here.


You were right. I completely missed out on an entire post-fight discussion. I'd actually never gone in the British section. LOL


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

The lack of a left hand was shocking. Fury leaned over to his right to avoid the right hand all night, and Wilder didn't throw a left hook.

The ONE time he threw a decent one was the end of the 8th. It hit Fury in the body and hurt him. You'd think a guy would be like "hey, that worked" and try it again, but nope.


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## alternative hypothesis (Oct 29, 2018)

JeffJoiner said:


> The lack of a left hand was shocking. Fury leaned over to his right to avoid the right hand all night, and Wilder didn't throw a left hook.
> 
> The ONE time he threw a decent one was the end of the 8th. It hit Fury in the body and hurt him. You'd think a guy would be like "hey, that worked" and try it again, but nope.


What did Wilder go within a whisker of knocking Fury out with in the 12th, his dick?


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

alternative hypothesis said:


> What did Wilder go within a whisker of knocking Fury out with in the 12th, his dick?


Why did he literally wait 11 1/2 rounds to throw it?


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> The lack of a left hand was shocking. Fury leaned over to his right to avoid the right hand all night, and Wilder didn't throw a left hook.
> 
> The ONE time he threw a decent one was the end of the 8th. It hit Fury in the body and hurt him. You'd think a guy would be like "hey, that worked" and try it again, but nope.


He knocked him into 2019 with a left hook. Fury just came back for the Christmas presents.


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## alternative hypothesis (Oct 29, 2018)

Cableaddict said:


> Why did he literally wait 11 1/2 rounds to throw it?


Wilder is very limited. We all knew that before the fight and Fury was like an eel most of the night. He just wasn't there to be hit. The absolute irony that Wilder is being so heavily criticized when only a totally inhuman resurrection saved Fury from being KOed. atsch


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

alternative hypothesis said:


> What did Wilder go within a whisker of knocking Fury out with in the 12th, his dick?


The 12th was started with a right hand and the left grazed him on the way down. I should have been more clear, the left to the body hurt Fury badly. There were no more lefts to the body.


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

Strike said:


> I cannot agree that something is a good punch "regardless of where it landed". So a low blow is a good punch if it lands after being set up by a jab? No way. Fury was not below the waistline when it landed, he took evasive action that was legal, slipped a punch and was hit with a rabbit punch that is illegal. Now, I don't think Wilder intended it at all, he was just throwing and trying to land...fair enough. Also, I don't have a big issue with it being given as a KD...but technically it should have been deemed an unintentional foul and not a KD.
> 
> Here are two screen grabs I did of the shot landing, taken from two different replays and it is clear as day that it's a rabbit punch, and that Fury does not have his head at an illegally low level either.


Bro he ducked into that. Wilder's punch is moving forward and Fury's head is moving DOWN. Technically a rabbit punch by way of where it landed on the head, but a fully legal blow by way of the fact that Fury put his head in that position while the punch was being thrown. This is a "protect yourself at all times" moment... not an illegal blow.


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## alternative hypothesis (Oct 29, 2018)

JeffJoiner said:


> The 12th was started with a right hand and the left grazed him on the way down. I should have been more clear, the left to the body hurt Fury badly. There were no more lefts to the body.


"The left grazed him on the way down" atsch






Get your eyes checked.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

alternative hypothesis said:


> "The left grazed him on the way down" atsch
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Try looking at multiple angles instead of just being a dick. The left did not land flush at all. Did more than graze, but was nowhere near flush.


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## artful (May 10, 2013)

Clean effective punching first and foremost then if the rounds were close you go to effective aggression,ring generalship, defence. Fury didn't con anything yes some of the early rounds were close on punches landed (even though compu box tends to score grazing blows) but Fury was the ring general had better defence so those rounds go to him kinda simple really, unless you make up your own scoring criteria.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

artful said:


> Clean effective punching first and foremost then if the rounds were close you go to effective aggression,ring generalship, defence. Fury didn't con anything yes some of the early rounds were close on punches landed (even though compu box tends to score grazing blows) but Fury was the ring general had better defence so those rounds go to him kinda simple really, unless you make up your own scoring criteria.


Exactly. The fight took place at the pace and distance Fury dictated for the most part. Either the Mexican judge was paid off or he's from the Harold Lederman "whoever is going forward wins the round" school of thought, neither is acceptable.


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## alternative hypothesis (Oct 29, 2018)

JeffJoiner said:


> The 12th was started with a right hand and the left grazed him on the way down. I should have been more clear, the left to the body hurt Fury badly. There were no more lefts to the body.


So one minute you say "the left grazed him."

Then next minute it "did more than graze."



JeffJoiner said:


> Try looking at multiple angles instead of just being a dick. The left did not land flush at all. Did more than graze, but was nowhere near flush.


The left was a decent shot. Why do you think people world wide have made such a fuss about Fury getting up? Because he got 'grazed'?

Quit with the pretending. It is just plain sad. atsch


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## artful (May 10, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> Exactly. The fight took place at the pace and distance Fury dictated for the most part. Either the Mexican judge was paid off or he's from the Harold Lederman "whoever is going forward wins the round" school of thought, neither is acceptable.


Well most casual's think like that, ohh he got knocked down twice you have to take the belt etc.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

alternative hypothesis said:


> So one minute you say "the left grazed him."
> 
> Then next minute it "did more than graze."
> 
> ...


Pretending what? I was at the freaking fight, Fury fell directly towards me. The left didn't land flush, what is so difficult to see about that and what is your point? Or do you even have one?

Pick your own adjective: it slipped a bit, it bounced, it grazed, whatever it did, it didn't land flush. The right hand was clean. If the left was also clean, there's no way Fury gets up.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

artful said:


> Well most casual's think like that, ohh he got knocked down twice you have to take the belt etc.


I hate the "you have to take the belt from the champion" crap. Once the opening bell rings, the belt is on the line, which means it is in limbo, technically neither man's belt.

Score each round as you should.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

JeffJoiner said:


> Try looking at multiple angles instead of just being a dick. The left did not land flush at all. Did more than graze, but was nowhere near flush.


The left was brutal. To describe it as a grazing shot is pure fantasy.

In this moment you are better served to admit you were wrong and move on. A character building moment potentially.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> The left was brutal. To describe it as a grazing shot is pure fantasy.
> 
> In this moment you are better served to admit you were wrong and move on. A character building moment potentially.


I have to agree. Whichever left you guys are talking about.

You can hear the first left, even if you were outside mowing the lawn at the time. That would have been enough to end most fights right there.

the second left also landed to some degree, since you can see Fury's trajectory speed up after it hit. It probably would not have been a KO punch by itself, but surely contributed. It cannot be considered "glancing" by my definition of the word.

-------------

But the thing is: Why is anybody even arguing about this point? It doesn't matter at all.


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## alternative hypothesis (Oct 29, 2018)

The entire world are in agreement. Except for one sad soul who, for reasons only he could understand, is trying to pretend otherwise.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> I have to agree. Whichever left you guys are talking about.
> 
> But the thing is: Why is anybody even arguing about this point? It doesn't matter at all.


Good question. Looking back at the posts it appears to have been triggered by people trying to criticize the effectiveness of Wilder's left hand from the right-left combination that floored Fury in the 12th.

As we saw, the combination sent Fury crashing to the canvas and it appeared as though he was temporarily unconscious. How Fury managed to get up is already part of boxing folklore and to question either of the punches that sent him there is just plain absurd.


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

Juiceboxbiotch said:


> Bro he ducked into that. Wilder's punch is moving forward and Fury's head is moving DOWN. Technically a rabbit punch by way of where it landed on the head, but a fully legal blow by way of the fact that Fury put his head in that position while the punch was being thrown. This is a "protect yourself at all times" moment... not an illegal blow.


No. Ducking is protecting yourself, he is not turning away, and where it lands matters. It's not intentional, but it should be ruled out as a KD.


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## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

Strike said:


> No. Ducking is protecting yourself, he is not turning away, and where it lands matters. It's not intentional, but it should be ruled out as a KD.


Well I'm convinced. Was always of the opinion that if a fighter moves his head or body into a position where they get hit like that it's their fault and shouldn't be counted against the opponent, but a kd is clearly a special case. 
While we are on this topic though, you could start a thread and fill it with a lot of kd that shouldn't be counted and a lot that should. Like Parker vs Whyte.


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

DynamicMoves said:


> Well I'm convinced. Was always of the opinion that if a fighter moves his head or body into a position where they get hit like that it's their fault and shouldn't be counted against the opponent, but a kd is clearly a special case.
> While we are on this topic though, you could start a thread and fill it with a lot of kd that shouldn't be counted and a lot that should. Like Parker vs Whyte.


It should not be counted against the opponent, so no penalty. Just an accidental foul, so no KD, no penalty...time to recover...fight on. Simples.


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

Strike said:


> It should not be counted against the opponent, so no penalty. Just an accidental foul, so no KD, no penalty...time to recover...fight on. Simples.


And that's it. End of debate. Simple. Fact. #StrikeIsRightBecauseHeIsStrike


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> The left was brutal. To describe it as a grazing shot is pure fantasy.
> 
> In this moment you are better served to admit you were wrong and move on. A character building moment potentially.


Look at the replay. The second left did not land cleanly. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, I've done it before and will again. Graze was a poor choice in words, but it wasn't a solid shot either.

And, if the left was so brutal, that only furthers my point that Deontay should've thrown it more often rather than being the one trick pony he was.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> Good question. Looking back at the posts it appears to have been triggered by people trying to criticize the effectiveness of Wilder's left hand from the right-left combination that floored Fury in the 12th.
> 
> As we saw, the combination sent Fury crashing to the canvas and it appeared as though he was temporarily unconscious. How Fury managed to get up is already part of boxing folklore and to question either of the punches that sent him there is just plain absurd.


I'm simply saying the second left hand, the one thrown while Fury was on the way down, did not land cleanly. That's it.

My initial point was that Deontay should've thrown the left, particularly downstairs, more often. Then dickwad goes on some rant and sidetracks the thread.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> I'm simply saying the second left hand, the one thrown while Fury was on the way down, did not land cleanly. That's it.
> 
> My initial point was that Deontay should've thrown the left, particularly downstairs, more often. Then dickwad goes on some rant and sidetracks the thread.


The left hand landed clean enough to accelerate Fury's crashing to the floor. If he had only been hit with the right I suspect he would have got up quicker, easier and people wouldn't be talking about it like he had just raised himself from the dead.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> The left hand landed clean enough to accelerate Fury's crashing to the floor. If he had only been hit with the right I suspect he would have got up quicker, easier and people wouldn't be talking about it like he had just raised himself from the dead.


True. Deontay definitely should've thrown the left more. The one downstairs at the end of 8 really hurt Fury, too. Tyson was leaning over to his right all night to avoid the right hand. A feint with the right then a strong left would've landed time and again.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> The left hand landed clean enough to accelerate Fury's crashing to the floor.* If he had only been hit with the right I suspect he would have got up quicker, easier and people wouldn't be talking about it like he had just raised himself from the dead*.


Of course, if Fury hadn't ducked illegally low, (or at least been trying to) Wilder would have landed a clean right cross to his temple, and Fury would probably STILL be on the canvas. :lol:


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Of course, if Fury hadn't ducked illegally low, (or at least been trying to) Wilder would have landed a clean right cross to his temple, and Fury would probably STILL be on the canvas. :lol:


I think we are in different rounds here. I am talking about the 12th.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> I think we are in different rounds here. I am talking about the 12th.


OK then !


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> Of course, if Fury hadn't ducked illegally low, (or at least been trying to) Wilder would have landed a clean right cross to his temple, and Fury would probably STILL be on the canvas. :lol:


Still wheeling this drivel out? Do you actually know the rules of the sport? I notice after I answered your ludicrous post on the other thread, you vanished. Ducking your head to chest height or even belly button height is not illegally low. It has to be below belt line, which Fury was never doing.

Here is Fury's position as Wilder throws...his head is just below Wilder's chin. No illegal ducking...not EVEN CLOSE. It's called bobbing and weaving.










Here is the punch landing in the 9th...










Yeah, illegally low ducking that. Look how far below the waistline he is. :lol:


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Strike said:


> Still wheeling this drivel out? Do you actually know the rules of the sport? I notice after I answered your ludicrous post on the other thread, you vanished. Ducking your head to chest height or even belly button height is not illegally low. It has to be below belt line, which Fury was never doing.
> 
> Here is Fury's position as Wilder throws...his head is just below Wilder's chin. No illegal ducking...not EVEN CLOSE. It's called bobbing and weaving.
> 
> ...


I still don't think the rabbit punch would have been all that clear to see in live action. It's not like Wilder reached around and karate chopped him in the brain stem. It almost looks legal, even in freeze frame, and was probably much harder to spot given the action that immediately preceded it.


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> I still don't think the rabbit punch would have been all that clear to see in live action. It's not like Wilder reached around and karate chopped him in the brain stem. It almost looks legal, even in freeze frame, and was probably much harder to spot given the action that immediately preceded it.


I agree. My point was simply that Cableaddict blathering on about Fury ducking illegally low was ridiculous.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Strike said:


> I agree. *My point was simply that Cableaddict blathering on about Fury ducking illegally low was ridiculous*.


No, it's not. And if you can't see it, then you don't belong here.

Dude ....


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> No, it's not. And if you can't see it, then you don't belong here.
> 
> Dude ....


:lol:

My God. You've actually been shown a picture of Fury in which he is chest height as the punch lands, but you're sticking with it being "illegally low". :lol: You literally don't know the rules of the sport.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> No, it's not. And if you can't see it, then you don't belong here.
> 
> Dude ....


He's just shown you picture evidence that directly contradicts what you are saying. It's not a point of debate, it's a fact.

Either admit you're a troll, shut the fuck up and embrace being stupid, or admit you are wrong about him ducking illegally low.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

TFG said:


> He's just shown you picture evidence that directly contradicts what you are saying. It's not a point of debate, it's a fact.
> 
> Either admit you're a troll, shut the fuck up and embrace being stupid, or admit you are wrong about him ducking illegally low.


And again, for the cheap seats: Fury continued lower after that screen grab, and he ducked way below Wilder's belt several other times when no punch landed.

What's wrong with you guys?


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> And again, for the cheap seats: Fury continued lower after that screen grab, and he ducked way below Wilder's belt several other times when no punch landed.
> 
> What's wrong with you guys?


That's not possible.

The screengrab shows the punch landing when Fury's head is chest height, that's when the incident happens. Fury's head goes lower after that screengrab because that's how the transfer of force works...


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> And again, for the cheap seats: Fury continued lower after that screen grab,


Well duh. He got punched, the punch moved his head further down. :lol: But even after the punch has landed and gone past him, his head is STILL not below waistline. Here is a still after the punch has landed and as he is on his way to the canvas...oh look not below waist line...the back of his head (where the punch landed) is in line with the top of Wilder's belt line, the front of his head is just below it, so his head is in line with the waist. This is as he is falling to the floor.










You've utterly embarrassed yourself here. Where Fury's head went after the punch that floored him is fucking irrelevant anyway...of course it went below the waist, because he got put on the floor. Oh look here is Michael Spinks ducking illegally low against Tyson...










It seems boxers were always cheating like that against Tyson. I think Larry Holmes should have been DQ'd for this blatant, illegally low ducking...


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

TFG said:


> That's not possible.
> 
> The screengrab shows the punch landing when Fury's head is chest height, that's when the incident happens. Fury's head goes lower after that screengrab because that's how the transfer of force works...


This is through the looking glass shit. Like genuinely surreal...is he seriously just someone who has created a troll character for the purpose of talking on boxing forums for years? Nobody can be this incapable of grasping something as simple as what a photograph shows...surely?


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Strike said:


> Well duh. He got punched, the punch moved his head further down. :lol: But even after the punch has landed and gone past him, his head is STILL not below waistline. Here is a still after the punch has landed and as he is on his way to the canvas...oh look not below waist line...the back of his head (where the punch landed) is in line with the top of Wilder's belt line, the front of his head is just below it, so his head is in line with the waist. This is as he is falling to the floor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:middlefinger:lol:


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