# Rubin Carter - Murderer: Innocent or Guilty



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Was having a discussion about this with Ben Doughty and a few others on his page yesterday. Due to the cluster-fuck of a case, we will probably never no the real outcome and also because of this and the fact they could not gather substantial evidence then it is probably correct that he was freed. but for those of you that have studied the case what are you thoughts on his guilt or innocence.

Evidence against:

2 witnesses identified the vehicle him and Artis were picked up in
He admittedly went searching for guns before the incident
Live rounds were found in the vehicle that matched the murder weapon
Witness identified Carter (good possibility of ulterior motives)
One of the victims gave an e-fit of Artis
carter was in the area (in a nearby bar)
Possible motive in racial reaction to his friends father being killed by a white-man earlier that night
Survivor identified Carter to brother.

Carter was never proved innocence but rather let go due to the case being based on a racist witch-hunt from local police as well as some suspicious witnesses etc.

Carter apparently had some major beef with some of the local police that had them pursuing him and looking to pin stuff on him whenever possible.


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## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Probably


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## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Here he is with fellow man of integrity, Jose Sulaiman:










@Boxed Ears


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## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

He could very well be guilty, would make a right cunt out of that film of him with big Denzel in it:yep


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## GazOC (Jun 2, 2012)

Probably guilty and he didn't beat Giardello either.:deal


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

GazOC said:


> Probably guilty and he didn't beat Giardello either.:deal


Yeah that came up as well in the debate, apparently Giardello sued them after the film and won as well. Good man.

TBF the whole film is a bit pile of shit, full of inaccuracies and made up events.


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## GazOC (Jun 2, 2012)

IIRC Giardello ended up forcing a mention at the end of the film stating the fight might not have been accuratly depicted. Denzil seemed to be really into the "worthy" movies around that point in his career and Carter certainly fitted the bill.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Someone mentioned that Denzel came to the conclusion that Carter did it as well. I haven't heard that one before but I would be interested to hear why he believes this (if it is indeed true)


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## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Guilty, he should have hung for his crimes


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## Slip (Jul 17, 2012)

Innocent.


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## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

Wallet said:


> Here he is with fellow man of integrity, Jose Sulaiman:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awwww, look at 'im. You can tell, he's just wondering 'How deep can Rubsy go into my flabby, stinky, rotting, yeasty vagina?'


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## Wiirdo (May 31, 2012)

From everything I've read about the case, it seems very likely he did it.


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## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

He did it. But he was just too slick for the courts. Too black.


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Guilty as sin:

http://graphicwitness.com/carter/index.html

http://www.martinlutherking.org/hurricane1.html

This was just one of those celebrity causes that a lot of people who should have known better got involved in and jumped on the bandwagon. This dirty SOB is guilty and should have spent his life behind bars. Was, is, and will always be a sociopathic con man with a chip on his shoulder and an entitlement complex.


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## KO KIDD (ESB EX-Patriot) (Jun 3, 2013)

Guilty


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## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

Don't know enough about the case to form an opinion, but the film was a crock of fucking shit from what I've read. Totally inaccurate. Still a very good film, just full of lies.


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

He probably did do it, that said the state was wrong because they presented a shitty case.
They have to prove guilt, the defendant doesn't have to prove innocence.
Sad part is if they handled shit properly a murderer would be in jail.


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

GazOC said:


> Probably guilty and he didn't beat Giardello either.:deal


That is right! I love that movie as Denzel is one of my favorites, but let's face it. The movie is fiction.


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

Giardello beat Carter fair and square. I am glad he sued the people who made the movie.


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## No Fear (May 28, 2013)

Is it true that Bob Dylan stopped playing the song 'Hurricane' because he no longer believed in Carter's innocence?


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

LP said:


> Guilty, he should have hung for his crimes


I've read nearly all there is to read on Rubin Carter and my feeling is he's guilty, and yeah on that basis they probably should have squished him.


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## Oneshot (Jun 6, 2013)

I'll say it's possible to frame a guilty man and if you do he should walk free, Hurricane was no angel, blame the cops though.


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Rubin Carter get done for attempted murder at some point, but he had a fight coming up, so his promoter paid off the judge or something? I do apologise if I am mistaken


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## Bil1234 (Jun 11, 2013)

He was most likely guilty. That monstrosity of film that was made about him should be put in the fiction section.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

Bil1234 said:


> He was most likely guilty. That monstrosity of film that was made about him should be put in the fiction section.


Amen ^

I've read a lot about Carter - articles from all sides and persuasions. But I heard what a crock of shit the movie was and purposefully avoided it.


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## Brownies (Jun 7, 2013)

I've had a long night 2 or 3 years ago, reading everything I could concerning the murder. My idea at the end was that he was probably guilty,


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

Brownies said:


> I've had a long night 2 or 3 years ago, reading everything I could concerning the murder. My idea at the end was that he was probably guilty,


I did similar, twice, and a few years apart, and both times came up thinking he was far more likely guilty than not. I'm glad I wasn't on his jury though, because there is room for doubt.


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## Surf-Bat (Jun 6, 2013)

Klompton said:


> Guilty as sin:
> 
> http://graphicwitness.com/carter/index.html
> 
> ...


Same with Mumia Abu Jamal. Celebrity know-nothings who haven't bothered to study the facts of the case getting involved. Nauseating.


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## Jdempsey85 (Jan 6, 2013)

GUILTY

Should have had the chair


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## Cormac (Jun 6, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Was having a discussion about this with Ben Doughty and a few others on his page yesterday. Due to the cluster-fuck of a case, we will probably never no the real outcome and also because of this and the fact they could not gather substantial evidence then it is probably correct that he was freed. but for those of you that have studied the case what are you thoughts on his guilt or innocence.
> 
> Evidence against:
> 
> ...


"And another man named Bello ,moving around mysteriously".


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## Screamin' Al Pacino (Jun 7, 2013)

_*Rubsy is a pet name for Rubin! *_


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Surf-Bat said:


> Same with Mumia Abu Jamal. Celebrity know-nothings who haven't bothered to study the facts of the case getting involved. Nauseating.


And the West Memphis Three.


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

Klompton said:


> And the West Memphis Three.


Hey, Klompton. What is the latest with the Harry Greb book?


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

The Sweet Science said:


> Hey, Klompton. What is the latest with the Harry Greb book?


Banging away at it. I had to reformat it from a 6x9 to 7x10 book which caused a delay as I had to go back and sort the pictures on each page. Very time consuming.


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## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Guilty.


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

Klompton said:


> Banging away at it. I had to reformat it from a 6x9 to 7x10 book which caused a delay as I had to go back and sort the pictures on each page. Very time consuming.


Oh, ok. Well, I think I speak for many of us here when I say that I can't wait! :happy


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## NoNeck (Jun 7, 2013)

guilty


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

I'm not sure, he might have done it but one things for sure you can't trust the police in 1960s America not to fit up the blk guy :yep



GazOC said:


> Probably guilty and he didn't beat Giardello either.:deal





Chatty said:


> Yeah that came up as well in the debate, apparently Giardello sued them after the film and won as well. Good man.
> 
> TBF the whole film is a bit pile of shit, full of inaccuracies and made up events.


I'm guessing you 2 haven't seen the fight because it was a closish fight where Giardello was taking a beating against the ropes for much of it. Carter got the better of it.

Giardello won his case based on an inaccurate depiction in the media, not on the basis of fight scoring accuracy.


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## Bil1234 (Jun 11, 2013)

Powerpuncher said:


> I'm not sure, he might have done it but one things for sure you can't trust the police in 1960s America not to fit up the blk guy :yep
> 
> I'm guessing you 2 haven't seen the fight because it was a closish fight where Giardello was taking a beating against the ropes for much of it. Carter got the better of it.
> 
> Giardello won his case based on an inaccurate depiction in the media, not on the basis of fight scoring accuracy.


I disagree. Giardello clearly beat Carter in my opinion. Giardello caught most of Carter's attacks in the corner with his arms, shoulders, and gloves. He also slipped and rolled with many of the shots. Giardello outboxed Carter and the work that Carter managed to do when Giardello was on the ropes and in the corners was largely ineffective.


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Bil1234 said:


> I disagree. Giardello clearly beat Carter in my opinion. Giardello caught most of Carter's attacks in the corner with his arms, shoulders, and gloves. He also slipped and rolled with many of the shots. Giardello outboxed Carter and the work that Carter managed to do when Giardello was on the ropes and in the corners was largely ineffective.


Giardello did block some of Carter's punches but allot were getting through and he was on the ropes for too long getting pounded on without doing much off the ropes. Giardello landed some good flush stuff when he turned and got boxing in the middle of the ring, but it was few and far between and Carter definitely landed the bigger punches.

I don't have a problem with people seeing the fight and thinking Giardello edged it on cleaner work but saying it wasn't a fight that could have gone either way is wrong. If you're judging with a focus on effective aggression then Carter won big, if you're focus is clean punches it's close with more of a case for Giardello.


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Easy fight to score. Anyone who thinks Carter won doesnt know how to score a fight. He clearly did not do enough in a majority of rounds to take the decision or a championship and even he admitted he was too timid. To pretend he was bullying and beating Giardello up is pure fantasy as was testified to and proven in a court of law.

"If you're judging with a focus on effective aggression then Carter won big..." Aaaand now all your credibility is shot.


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Klompton said:


> Easy fight to score. Anyone who thinks Carter won doesnt know how to score a fight. He clearly did not do enough in a majority of rounds to take the decision or a championship and even he admitted he was too timid. To pretend he was bullying and beating Giardello up is pure fantasy as was testified to and proven in a court of law.
> 
> "If you're judging with a focus on effective aggression then Carter won big..." Aaaand now all your credibility is shot.


You're talking BS, it's a fight with many rounds which could go either way depending on what someone prefers and you lost credibility long ago with your uneducated Roy Jones Jr criticisms.

The court case had little to do with the fight and everything to do with the radio misrepresentation of Giardello. That was what the evidence was based on not the court breaking down the punch by punch action you cretin.


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## Burt Brooks (Jun 6, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> I'm not sure, he might have done it but one things for sure you can't trust the police in 1960s America not to fit up the blk guy :yep
> 
> I'm guessing you 2 haven't seen the fight because it was a closish fight where Giardello was taking a beating against the ropes for much of it. Carter got the better of it.
> 
> Giardello won his case based on an inaccurate depiction in the media, not on the basis of fight scoring accuracy.


WRONG< WRONG< WRONG...Guilty as sin...Political correctness run amuck...


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> You're talking BS, it's a fight with many rounds which could go either way depending on what someone prefers and you lost credibility long ago with your uneducated Roy Jones Jr criticisms.
> 
> The court case had little to do with the fight and everything to do with the radio misrepresentation of Giardello. That was what the evidence was based on not the court breaking down the punch by punch action you cretin.


Yeah see how far that "Carter won big" argument gets you among people who arent blind...

Actually there were sworn depositions taken expressly in regards to the fight itself and the judging and refereeing of it as well as the media perceptions of it at the time. The lawsuit wasnt about the radio it was about a specific three minute segment of the film that misrepresented the fight and claimed the decision was racially motivated. The case was settled by the filmmakers and a note was placed on future releases of the fight stating that liberties had been taken and that it didnt necessarily represent a factual account.

Lets see, Ill go with "Roy was an overprotected cherry picker who took advantage of a sweet heart contract with his exclusive network to pad his career" in light of things like Roycotts and overwhelming evidence to support it, OVER "Rubin Carter really won a clear decision and won it big if you base the fight on effective aggression" when you are the ONLY person, even among Carter supporters, who Ive ever heard try to float that little turd and which is so patently false that a defamation suit was filed and settled out of court over. Even Carter stated Giardello won the fight fair and square:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...qY1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=nrUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4610,7463532

The director of the film did as well:

Norman Jewison: "We just dealt with the last few seconds of the fight, where it seemed that Rubin had it. But, going back over it, there's no doubt about it, Giardello won it."

The radio representation was discussed but that was not the crux of the suit:

Les Keiter, who called the fight: "The scene was absolutely, totally fictitious," Keiter said. "I never said any of that. Not even close."
I have my call of the fight on tape. I played it for several of the sports writers here in Hawaii. Giardello, in my scoring, was the clear-cut winner. Now, it was a reasonably close fight. But the 15th round was just the reverse of what was shown. It was all Giardello, with his boxing and his counterpunching."

So I would suggest you watch the actual fight, not the one in the movie (which seems to be all youve seen) and then get back to us. You might want to watch a few hundred other fights though and maybe even read a book or two about scoring as well as get your eyes checked because this was an easy fight to score and your score goes pretty contrary to not only the facts but the vast majority of people who actually saw the fight.


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Klompton said:


> Yeah see how far that "Carter won big" argument gets you among people who arent blind...
> 
> Actually there were sworn depositions taken expressly in regards to the fight itself and the judging and refereeing of it as well as the media perceptions of it at the time. The lawsuit wasnt about the radio it was about a specific three minute segment of the film that misrepresented the fight and claimed the decision was racially motivated. The case was settled by the filmmakers and a note was placed on future releases of the fight stating that liberties had been taken and that it didnt necessarily represent a factual account.
> 
> ...


I have scored the fight, have you? I posted a scorecard on ESB Classic a few years ago. You're patronising tone is hilarious considering you've never boxed at any level, meaning you essentially don't understand the mechanics of the sport. The fact you have the nerve you criticise boxers when you've never had the balls to step in the ring says allot about you.

Anyway Scoring is subjective to the extent that it is about criteria and what you value. What you've posting regarding the court case was about the incorrect media depiction from Denzil's movie as I said and not an actual assessment of the fight. It was partly regarding the commentators views on the fight that were misrepresented but again the court isn't actually assessing whether or not it could have gone the other way. A bit irrelevant bring it up as to whether it was a fight that could have gone the other way or not then isn't it?

Personally I'm not a Carter fan and don't feel strongly 1 way or another about him, where as you are emotionally a critic as you seem to be for many boxers and personally attack other posters who disagree with you.



Burt Brooks said:


> WRONG< WRONG< WRONG...Guilty as sin...Political correctness run amuck...


Maybe he was but if you trust the police not to fit a man up you must have lived a privileged existence Burt


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

What a child. "Youve never boxed so you cant talk about boxing nyah!" You know absolutely nothing about me and yet youre going to come on here and make a statement like "considering youve never boxed at any level" REALLY? And you got this information where? Much to the contrary, I assure you. Furthermore, even if I had never laced up a glove, it doesnt take an ex boxer to judge boxing, judge boxers, or even comment on the sport. As you should well know before even making such a statement. I would submit that the vast majority of people who have judged and criticised the sport and its participants NEVER laced on a glove, and frankly without them the sport wouldnt exist. So think about that while you pontificate about how anybody who has ever taken a punch on the nose with a boxing glove should be banned from laying eyes on or ushering an opinion about your beloved sport. And while you are thinking about it come back here and post your scorecard so we can all have a laugh at how inept you are.


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

Powerpunchers argument got shut down so he resorted to that lol. Tell us about your pro career Powerpuncher an the mechanics it takes at the elite level


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Well this escalated quickly... Can we all agree that he beat Fernandez and lost to tiger?


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Klompton said:


> What a child. "Youve never boxed so you cant talk about boxing nyah!" You know absolutely nothing about me and yet youre going to come on here and make a statement like *"considering youve never boxed at any level" REALLY? And you got this information where? Much to the contrary, I assure you.* Furthermore, even if I had never laced up a glove, it doesnt take an ex boxer to judge boxing, judge boxers, or even comment on the sport. As you should well know before even making such a statement. I would submit that the vast majority of people who have judged and criticised the sport and its participants NEVER laced on a glove, and frankly without them the sport wouldnt exist. So think about that while you pontificate about how anybody who has ever taken a punch on the nose with a boxing glove should be banned from laying eyes on or ushering an opinion about your beloved sport. And while you are thinking about it come back here and post your scorecard so we can all have a laugh at how inept you are.


From yourself, so you were either lying then or just now to save face.


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Brnxhands said:


> Powerpunchers argument got shut down so he resorted to that lol. Tell us about your pro career Powerpuncher an the mechanics it takes at the elite level


Have you seen the fight, otherwise how would you know if it got shut down or not?


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

When did I ever say Ive never boxed??? And please explain how that would or would not influence my (and the vast majority of people who have seen that fight) opinion??? I guess Carter admitting he lost doesnt hold much weight with you. I guess all of these guys "never boxed" so they didnt know what they were looking at: Unofficial poll of ringside scribes - 14 for Giardello, 3 for Carter (also reported as 15-5 for Giardello) referee: Bob Polis 72-66 | judge: Jim Mina 71-66 | judge: Dave Beloff 70-67 or maybe they were all racist and it was a racist conspiracy to keep an innocent little daisy like Carter from succeeding in life, just like him getting framed for murder... right?


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Klompton said:


> When did I ever say Ive never boxed??? And please explain how that would or would not influence my (and the vast majority of people who have seen that fight) opinion??? I guess Carter admitting he lost doesnt hold much weight with you. I guess all of these guys "never boxed" so they didnt know what they were looking at: Unofficial poll of ringside scribes - 14 for Giardello, 3 for Carter (also reported as 15-5 for Giardello) referee: Bob Polis 72-66 | judge: Jim Mina 71-66 | judge: Dave Beloff 70-67 or maybe they were all racist and it was a racist conspiracy to keep an innocent little daisy like Carter from succeeding in life, just like him getting framed for murder... right?


Losing your memory because you said so on ESB

Ahh judges are always right are they and they should never be questioned, how much retardation are you aiming for tonight? And what does home town favour have to do with racist conspiracies, over sensitive much?


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## hhascup (Jun 26, 2012)

I lived only a few blocks away from the bar that this happened. I also knew both John Artis and Rubin Carter a little.

Artis ran the hurdles for Central High School a few years before and I ran distance races for Passaic County Tech, both schools were located in Paterson at the time.

I met Carter several years before at the Riverside Oval in Paterson and he even pitched some softball. One time he and several of his friends went across the street of the ball field and went bowling. I followed him and he asked me to keep score, which I did. Also, when he pitched he used to let me sit with his team, he called me kid.

When I was in high school they let me go to the court house several times to do a report on the case. It was some long days, but I reported back what I saw and heard. They had several family members of the people that were killed on the stand. It was pretty sad and some of the items they showed were still full of blood.

I also knew Lt. Vince DeSimone some, and several of my friends knew him very well and they all said he was a honest cop and would never have done what the picture stated he did. Just read the site that Cal Deal has and you can make your own judgement.

Carter was on his way down as a boxer when this happened, just look at his record.

Cal Deal did a GREAT JOB in getting the material together and I read his site many times over the years.

http://www.graphicwitness.com/carter/index.html

I read just about everything about this case and I believe that both John Artis and Rubin Carter were and still are Guilty!


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> Losing your memory because you said so on ESB
> 
> Ahh judges are always right are they and they should never be questioned, how much retardation are you aiming for tonight? And what does home town favour have to do with racist conspiracies, over sensitive much?


Then you will have no problem finding that quote and posting it here. Link or STFU.

Soooo, the judges and the vast majority are wrong. Just you are right...

Im still waiting on your scorecard and an explanation of why nobody can properly judge a boxing match unless hes been a boxer. I need a good laugh tonight.


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## Brownies (Jun 7, 2013)

You got me pumped guys, just scored the fight :

Giardello-Carter
1-0
1-0
0-1 
0-1 
1-0
1-0
1-0
1-0
0-1
0-1
1-0
1-0
1-0 
0-1
0-1


69-66


Judge 1 : 69-64
Judge 2 : 70-67
Ref : 72-66


I hate 10-10 or 5-5 rounds and try to always pick a winner and it favours Carter here. I felt Giardello was competitive in every round and won his rounds clearer generally. Carter was inconsistant, sometime jabbing (fast jab by the way) and sometime following Joey for entire rounds, running into jabs, left hook to the jaw and more importantly, body punches in the second half of the fight. Carter showed a lot of determination, good power and he was a competitive challenger.

Giardello looks like a master boxer in this fight... He does it all ! Good movement to keep his distance, clever clinching, good left hook, good upperbody movement to escape punched after going to the body, good inside fighting... The better man won.

This fight was more competitive than close, despite my scoring. I can't give Carter more points than that, I gave him some close rounds and can't say the same for Joey who put some good work in many rounds I was him losing.

I'll probably look at some more Giardello fights this week-end, he was a fun fighter to watch and a terrific boxer.


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## Burt Brooks (Jun 6, 2012)

Brownies said:


> You got me pumped guys, just scored the fight :
> 
> Giardello-Carter
> 1-0
> ...


And REMEMBER Joey Giardello was THIRTY FOUR years old, and had 127 bouts for this fight. And he WON...


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Brownies said:


> You got me pumped guys, just scored the fight :
> 
> Giardello-Carter
> 1-0
> ...


You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Carter just waited in too many rounds while Giardello was working. You can be generous and give Carter rounds and he still falls short because the majority rounds that were won clearly were won by Giardello. Carter made it interesting, and I did have it fairly close, but to give any more rounds to Carter would be impossible unless you were operating on some sort of bias or just didnt know what you were looking at. Ive always felt that the fight was there for Carter to TAKE and he simply didnt. He didnt kick it up a notch when he had to in order to take control and just allowed Giardello (who I thought looked vulnerable) to stay out in front. Here is an old fighter, whose legs arent what they once were, and who was never known for his stamina. If you are the younger guy and a challenger to boot you put pressure on and make the old guy work while trying to show the judges that you are there to take the title. Carter didnt do that. He allowed Giardello to get off, get out in front, and stay there. He even admitted that. He stated specifically that he waited too long because he had never gone 15 rounds and in hindsight he should have started earlier. According to that article I posted above hes on tape as saying that he lost fair and square. There was no controversy until 30+ years later when that stupid movie came out and distorted the truth.

If you want to see some good Giardello this weekend I recommend his fights with Gil Turner and Willie Troy. Those were the first two fights I saw of his. I'll say this though, if you become a Giardello aficionado and start watching a bunch of his fights you will see he could be maddeningly inconsistent. Probably because he hated to train and used to spend a lot of time with the boys.


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## Brownies (Jun 7, 2013)

Burt Brooks said:


> And REMEMBER Joey Giardello was THIRTY FOUR years old, and had 127 bouts for this fight. And he WON...


Good point Burt, I forgot to mention that. Can you imagine getting that sort of achievement and having some people telling you won because of corruption, racism, etc... decades later !



Klompton said:


> If you want to see some good Giardello this weekend I recommend his fights with Gil Turner and Willie Troy. Those were the first two fights I saw of his. I'll say this though, if you become a Giardello aficionado and start watching a bunch of his fights you will see he could be maddeningly inconsistent. Probably because he hated to train and used to spend a lot of time with the boys.


Thanks for the suggestions, Klompton. No matter what he's done and say, I'm a fan of James Toney so I can handle my share of inconsistency...


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Giardello-Turner is fantastic. Flea has it.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Havn't read the thread yet, but regardless of whether Carter did the murders in question is moot point for me. He was a piece of shit human being who didn't deserve to be free. Fuck him.


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## zoe (May 16, 2013)

hhascup said:


> I lived only a few blocks away from the bar that this happened. I also knew both John Artis and Rubin Carter a little.
> 
> Artis ran the hurdles for Central High School a few years before and I ran distance races for Passaic County Tech, both schools were located in Paterson at the time.
> 
> ...


Did you read The Sixteenth Round, and if so what did you think about it?

That book has been on my list for a while, but I've still never read it.


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## hhascup (Jun 26, 2012)

I read it years ago, it was pretty good But it's his side of the story!


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

zoe said:


> Did you read The Sixteenth Round, and if so what did you think about it?
> 
> That book has been on my list for a while, but I've still never read it.


Its got a lot of lies in it also. All the way down to doctoring his military photo.


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Klompton said:


> Then you will have no problem finding that quote and posting it here. Link or STFU.
> 
> Soooo, the judges and the vast majority are wrong. Just you are right...
> 
> Im still waiting on your scorecard and an explanation of why nobody can properly judge a boxing match unless hes been a boxer. I need a good laugh tonight.


You've never boxed, you've said as much, I'm not bothering going through your posts to find you saying so, because you know you did and I know you did and that's all the counts. Pretend you have if you want to save face but why do you feel the need to twist the truth? Be honest about who you are.

If you want to dig through Carter threads on ESB, you can find my card and yourself stating you've never boxed. If you're that interested, which you aren't you're just trying to wiggle out of being in your box.

I never said everyone who disagreed with me was wrong, that was your standpoint, a standpoint of someone who's never boxed and someone with an agenda.



Brownies said:


> You got me pumped guys, just scored the fight :
> 
> Giardello-Carter
> 1-0
> ...


It's been a long time since I've seen this fight but if 2 of your rounds go the other way. A few of these rounds I've seen go the other way from a hazy recollection (for both fighters). Giardello struck me as someone with allot of skill but not much strength.


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## Brownies (Jun 7, 2013)

Powerpuncher said:


> Giardello struck me as someone with allot of skill but not much strength.


It's not that bad. I'd say similar to guys like Ward or a older Hopkins. They hit with more than enough force to get respect... but they lack that extra snap. Many of Giardello's left to the body made a lot of noise when they landed and you could clearly see Carter affected by them. It's like Whitaker vs Chavez, Pernell is known as featherfisted but he landed some damn hard body punches that night.


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> You've never boxed, you've said as much, I'm not bothering going through your posts to find you saying so, because you know you did and I know you did and that's all the counts. Pretend you have if you want to save face but why do you feel the need to twist the truth? Be honest about who you are.
> 
> If you want to dig through Carter threads on ESB, you can find my card and yourself stating you've never boxed. If you're that interested, which you aren't you're just trying to wiggle out of being in your box.
> 
> ...


Like I said, post a link or STFU. You cant because I never said it so you wont. But, as I said before, enlighten us on how having boxed makes you more qualified to judge a fight, if indeed you have boxed "powerpuncher". But hey, don't take my word for it. Contact Britt Van Buskirk who owned and operated the Tough Enough gym in Carbondale IL where I was a member and trained. Britt was one of the early pioneers of women's boxing (and next to Lucia Rijker the best female boxer Ive ever seen). She hung the first defeat on Sumya Anani when she was past her prime and lost to Rijker when she was damn near twenty years past her prime. She trained Jihaad Baker there. Jihaad boxed heavyweight in both the St. Louis Golden Gloves and was seen on USA in several Toughman Man competitions. I was his sparring partner despite weighing only 146 to 154 pounds at the time. So why in the hell would I go on a board populated by people from the CBZ and old HouseofBoxing forums where I had talked about boxing in the past and say that I had never boxed? So like I said: Post a link or STFU and admit you lied.

As for youre assessment of Brownies card, his point was that he was generous to Carter and that you really couldn't give Carter anymore rounds than what he felt he awarded. Which is exactly the case. Carter was competitive but the rounds were easy to score and the bottom line is that Giardello won more of them and did so more convincingly than Carter who saved too much in the tank. You wont post your card, you have a hazy recollection, and its been a long time since you've seen the fight BUT you are just dead sure that Carter won. Talk about a joke. Like I said, watch the actual fight instead of having a hazy recollection of the minute reenactment in the movie. You might be surprised to see that you are wrong, just like you are wrong about putting words in my mouth that I never said and never would have.


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Klompton said:


> Like I said, post a link or STFU. You cant because I never said it so you wont. But, as I said before, enlighten us on how having boxed makes you more qualified to judge a fight, if indeed you have boxed "powerpuncher". But hey, don't take my word for it. Contact Britt Van Buskirk who owned and operated the Tough Enough gym in Carbondale IL where I was a member and trained. Britt was one of the early pioneers of women's boxing (and next to Lucia Rijker the best female boxer Ive ever seen). She hung the first defeat on Sumya Anani when she was past her prime and lost to Rijker when she was damn near twenty years past her prime. She trained Jihaad Baker there. Jihaad boxed heavyweight in both the St. Louis Golden Gloves and was seen on USA in several Toughman Man competitions. I was his sparring partner despite weighing only 146 to 154 pounds at the time. So why in the hell would I go on a board populated by people from the CBZ and old HouseofBoxing forums where I had talked about boxing in the past and say that I had never boxed? So like I said: Post a link or STFU and admit you lied.
> 
> As for youre assessment of Brownies card, his point was that he was generous to Carter and that you really couldn't give Carter anymore rounds than what he felt he awarded. Which is exactly the case. Carter was competitive but the rounds were easy to score and the bottom line is that Giardello won more of them and did so more convincingly than Carter who saved too much in the tank. You wont post your card, you have a hazy recollection, and its been a long time since you've seen the fight BUT you are just dead sure that Carter won. Talk about a joke. Like I said, watch the actual fight instead of having a hazy recollection of the minute reenactment in the movie. You might be surprised to see that you are wrong, just like you are wrong about putting words in my mouth that I never said and never would have.


You have reading comprehension problems, either that or it's yourself that puts words in other peoples mouths. I've never said I was dead sure Carter won I said it's a fight that could go either way and that I scored it to Carter the 1 time I watched it. BTW as you're asking for mine, do you have a scorecard as you haven't posted it yet are asking for mine.

Brownies a;sp never said he was generous to Carter either, just that he had Carter winning the closer rounds on his card.

You know full well I'm not going to go through you inane posts, but like I said you and I both know the truth about you, even if you want to build an internet persona now. The post you made though was regarding you calling a fighter a coward/ducker or something to that affect, you were asked if you haven't boxed how could you pass judgement and you said yourself you hadn't competed but still could have an opinion.


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## Brownies (Jun 7, 2013)

And now people, time to agree to disagree. We're going nowhere with this.


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## Jdempsey85 (Jan 6, 2013)

@CKNW: Professional boxer Rubin “Hurricane” Carter has died at age 76. He spent almost 20 years in prison for a wrongful triple murder conviction.

@shotfighter26 (Harold Lederman): So sorry to hear of the death of Rubin "Hurricane" Carter. The Patterson, NJ middleweight was one of the hardest punchers I ever saw. RIP.

Where is he going heaven or hell?


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

RIP to Carter


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## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

RIP


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I dunno I can't buy into all the RIPing, I'm sure I would get stick if I put a RIP Fred West up or something so why should this be any different.


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## Duo (Jun 14, 2012)

Chatty said:


> I dunno I can't buy into all the RIPing, I'm sure I would get stick if I put a RIP Fred West up or something so why should this be any different.


Ditto. Here's who I'm RIPing:


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Looking at the boxer other than the person, I thank Carter for the viewing pleasure he's given me.

Benton-Carter is one of my favourite 10 round fights ever.


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## thistle1 (Jun 7, 2013)

I have NO Idea...

I can't comment one way or the other... but some people have some pretty strong veiws for either verdict. all I can say, is the same I truly offer for ALL my fellow man GOD have mercy on his soul!!!


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## Rockinghorseshit (Oct 4, 2013)

RIP Carter.


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## Trail (May 24, 2013)

Michael said:


> He could very well be guilty, would make a right cunt out of that film of him with big Denzel in it:yep


:deal:lol:


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