# Boxing vs UFC in the U.S.



## Lampley (Jun 4, 2013)

Last night made it very clear why boxing is struggling here and UFC is building its audience. I watched both and, although I'm not really an MMA fan, the UFC matches were so much more exciting. The biggest difference to me is that the big fights get made. There's no Mayweather/Pacquaio bullshit, no PBC issues, no waiting around for HBO to decide on its budget.

This guy fights that guy for a shot at the title, and then the title fight happens. Period! 

It didn't help that HBO knew going in they had a stinker of a fight on their hands. Scott makes for horrific viewing; they need to get tougher on matchmaking. If you don't try to win, you don't make it to HBO's airwaves.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

2017 will be a great year just from ALL of the HW's will be matched up thats why theres no point in worrying now

We will get Haye vs Parker, Joshua vs Wlad/Wilder, hopefully Wilder vs Povetkin, Ortiz in with someone decent 2017 will be carried by the HWs


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Fortuna vs Douglas was everything you could ask for.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

No such thing as tomato cans, tune up fights or cherry picking either in the UFC. ruthless no mercy match making. joe silva promised that if a fighter turned down a fight for a piss poor reason the next opponent will be even harder. the man is hated by many a fighter for it

i love full cards as well - evenly matched from first prelim to main event. something like 10-14 fights most weekends.


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## stevebhoy87 (Jun 4, 2013)

UFC definetly riding a crest of a wave at the moment at the top end. Clearly McGregor a large part of it, it's rare to get someone as controversial and good at talking and selling a fight as he is, but then has exciting fight to keep the casuals buying again and takes big risks in his matchmaking, we haven't really had that in boxing in a long time. When you add that to the politics in boxing causing issues then things aren't great.

As always though things go in cycles, we had a brilliant year in 2013 I think it was and I'm very optimistic about next 12 months, we have 2 great fights in the next 2 weeks, we have a brilliant Showtime schedule, BT have heavily backed boxing in the U.K. this week which I'm not sure if the American posters know much about but it's a big deal here, I think GGG vs Jacobs will get made, heavyweights should get exciting in the next 12 months.

Maybe I'm an eternal optimist, and they're lots we can learn from the UFC but I'm hopefully next year.


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Not a fan of the UFC/MMA, but their structure is clearly better, and it's definitely better for their fans at the moment than Boxing fans.

If Boxing had their same structure, it would be a dream come true.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> Not a fan of the UFC/MMA, but their structure is clearly better, and it's definitely better for their fans at the moment than Boxing fans.
> 
> If Boxing had their same structure, it would be a dream come true.


It's great for the fans but terrible for the fighters. The UFC circumvents and violates so many workers' rights standards. Boxing isn't great with regards to protections for fighters but the UFC is far worse.

The main takeaways are consistency in quality and promotion. There are enough top fighters to regularly churn out top fights and make sellable events out of them. Name recognition, ad space, a presence in the public's everyday lives somehow. Get casuals interested, satisfy them with a good card, they'll show up next time with more curiosity about other fighters, and invite their friends.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Kind of odd to think about when just a few years ago people were already saying that MMA was dying. The UFC has massive drawing power right now especially with Conor McG proving to be the goods as of late. Huge international fanbase on free TV regularly as well definitely helps fans in the loop in terms of who the top contenders are.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Not a fan of the UFC/MMA


As long as there are Mexicans there will always be boxing.


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## emallini (Sep 2, 2014)

We need the heavyweights to be poppin. Nothing beats heavyweight boxing.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

McGregor is far more entertaining to the casual fan than Mayweather was. And he's forced to make the big fight every time out. 

Right now UFC's biggest star is the antithesis of boxing's current and most recent biggest stars. They get what we want.

I'm not a fan, but I can see why they are succeeding.


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## Thomas Crewz (Jul 23, 2013)

Biggest difference for me is that boxing promotes fights and fighters first. UFC promotes the sport (or the brand more specifically) first and then the fights/fighters. If a crossover star arrises out of this set up, like Mcgregor, then great. If not, then people will still tune in to UFC-whatevernumber- just because it is UFC.


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## Thomas Crewz (Jul 23, 2013)

Boxing is like a big rusty, clunky old truck thats on its last legs lurching slowly, aimlessly, from one place the next. Ok it is still just about chugging along, and people who remember it in its heyday still have good feelings towards it, but it needs a revamp and fast if its gonna keep up with the new trucks on the block.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Fortuna vs Douglas was everything you could ask for.


Everything except something resembling skill.

Exciting, but it looked like a drunken street fight.


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## TeddyL (Oct 5, 2013)

They are different sports. Boxing will have its fans and WWE, UFC and the other ring sports will have their own


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

I can't get into it, it usually just turns into a sloppy boxing match. I do enjoy the small polish chick though


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## CASH_718 (Jan 24, 2016)

bballchump11 said:


> Fortuna vs Douglas was everything you could ask for.


And it was the opening fight of a sub par triple header.


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## mike_bngs (Jun 4, 2013)

Lampley said:


> Last night made it very clear why boxing is struggling here and UFC is building its audience. I watched both and, although I'm not really an MMA fan, the UFC matches were so much more exciting. The biggest difference to me is that the big fights get made. There's no Mayweather/Pacquaio bullshit, no PBC issues, no waiting around for HBO to decide on its budget.
> *
> This guy fights that guy for a shot at the title, and then the title fight happens. Period! *
> 
> It didn't help that HBO knew going in they had a stinker of a fight on their hands. Scott makes for horrific viewing; they need to get tougher on matchmaking. If you don't try to win, you don't make it to HBO's airwaves.


I would say, that this is only the case as ufc is just a brand. If there were to be sanctioning bodies that oversaw all the different mma promotions you would find exactly the same mess. I think this is something that ufc plays up to its casual fans. That McGregor dude isn't a world champion, he is a ufc champion. While he continues to be a ufc fighter he will fight who he is told to.


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

mike_bngs said:


> I would say, that this is only the case as ufc is just a brand. If there were to be sanctioning bodies that oversaw all the different mma promotions you would find exactly the same mess. I think this is something that ufc plays up to its casual fans. That McGregor dude isn't a world champion, he is a ufc champion. While he continues to be a ufc fighter he will fight who he is told to.


Good point, UFC is just one organization with one belt. There are several other MMA organizations with their own champ


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## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

mike_bngs said:


> That McGregor dude isn't a world champion, he is a ufc champion. While he continues to be a ufc fighter he will fight who he is told to.


Any UFC champion is the champion of the world. They have a near-monopoly on the world's best fighters in every division, and nobody outside of their org has access to a strong enough pool of opponents to be considered more of The Man than his division's UFC kingpin. The only big-name guy who is percieved as a potential UFC champion who has never fought in the org, is Ben Askren. And his ONE FC pool of opponents is absolutely nothing compared to the monsters at the top of the UFC WW division. Rory McDonald is easily Bellator's highest-ranked guy, and he came up (_juuuust_) short in his UFC title shot last year.

Also McGregor in particular has a lot of power over choosing his own opponents. FAR more than basically any other UFC fighter.

:hat


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## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

Haggis said:


> Any UFC champion is the champion of the world. They have a near-monopoly on the world's best fighters in every division, and nobody outside of their org has access to a strong enough pool of opponents to be considered more of The Man than his division's UFC kingpin. The only big-name guy who is percieved as a potential UFC champion who has never fought in the org, is Ben Askren. And his ONE FC pool of opponents is absolutely nothing compared to the monsters at the top of the UFC WW division. Rory McDonald is easily Bellator's highest-ranked guy, and he came up (_juuuust_) short in his UFC title shot last year.
> 
> Also McGregor in particular has a lot of power over choosing his own opponents. FAR more than basically any other UFC fighter.
> 
> :hat


Bullshit, there are loads of other fighters in other companies that are skilled.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Saw Arum Cooney and Mosley promoting the UFC on the weekend. maybe more boxers.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Saw Arum Cooney and Mosley promoting the UFC on the weekend. maybe more boxers.


I saw my Twitter feed, and they had Jhonny Gonzalez at one of their shows.


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## Thomas Crewz (Jul 23, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Saw Arum Cooney and Mosley promoting the UFC on the weekend. maybe more boxers.


Exactly. And look at how Dana White praises GGG. The two sports can easily feed off each other.

Its boxing in the US that is broken


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## Oli (Jun 6, 2013)

Boxing is more or less finished. Just doesn't have the credibility or wow factor it once had. It has become a parody of itself. 

There is simply no value in boxing for the fan. Nothing in it. It doesn't offer anything anymore. 

The only fans it has these days are those who liked boxing from back in the day like most of us. But even many of us are turned off now. 

The UFC is what's poppin in this day and age. Product, Value, excitement, marketability, credibility. The UFC has it all. Boxing is more or less redundant.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Oli said:


> There is simply no value in boxing for the fan. Nothing in it. It doesn't offer anything anymore.


If you actually like the art of boxing itself there obviously is

I can agree with all the arguments about better organization and brand marketing, but there will always be a market for those who prefer the aesthetics and mechanics of boxing. The distribution of the product doesn't say anything about the inherent quality of the product, which comes down to preference and taste.


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## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

Oli said:


> Boxing is more or less finished. Just doesn't have the credibility or wow factor it once had. It has become a parody of itself.
> 
> There is simply no value in boxing for the fan. Nothing in it. It doesn't offer anything anymore.
> 
> ...


I disagree, I prefer boxing. I watch MMA, but I'd rather watch a boxing match. The technique displayed in boxing appeals to me more. It's more aesthetically pleasing in my eyes. I enjoy MMA, I enjoy boxing more.


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## Oli (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> If you actually like the art of boxing itself there obviously is
> 
> I can agree with all the arguments about better organization and brand marketing, but there will always be a market for those who prefer the aesthetics and mechanics of boxing. The distribution of the product doesn't say anything about the inherent quality of the product, which comes down to preference and taste.


I would have agreed but massive let downs in the fights that actually do get made have changed my opinion on it.

For instance the upcoming Ward vs Kovalev is going to be a shit ass fight. That is gunna be boring as fuck with no real drama most likely. At least that's my prediction anyway. And if it comes true il just think "ah well I'm used to this now". More often than not these days I sit through a lot of boxing wanting it to be over rather being engrossed in it.

I watched the UFC at the weekend was couldn't take my eyes off any of it. And that included women fighting! For fucks sake. You simply get what you want in UFC.. an action packed fight between two good fighters both with a chance of winning. Can you say that for boxing these days?


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## Oli (Jun 6, 2013)

Mrboogie23 said:


> I disagree, I prefer boxing. I watch MMA, but I'd rather watch a boxing match. The technique displayed in boxing appeals to me more. It's more aesthetically pleasing in my eyes. I enjoy MMA, I enjoy boxing more.


Fair enough mate and even up to a year ago I'd have said the same as you. It pains me to see how far boxing has fallen. Iv followed the sport for nearly 24 years and never imagined myself saying what I'm saying now.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Oli said:


> Fair enough mate and even up to a year ago I'd have said the same as you. It pains me to see how far boxing has fallen. Iv followed the sport for nearly 24 years and never imagined myself saying what I'm saying now.


Well, you have the triumvirate at 130: Salido, Vargas, and Miura. They seem keen on beating the absolute shit out of one another for the next few years :lol:.


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> Well, you have the triumvirate at 130: Salido, Vargas, and Miura. They seem keen on beating the absolute shit out of one another for the next few years :lol:.


130lbs is fucking hot right now..

Great division to follow right now.


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## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

Oli said:


> Fair enough mate and even up to a year ago I'd have said the same as you. It pains me to see how far boxing has fallen. Iv followed the sport for nearly 24 years and never imagined myself saying what I'm saying now.


I hear ya, I enjoy MMA. I've done BJJ. My brother got a bronze in BJJ at the pan am games. My family has all rolled a bit, but my family also loves boxing more. Just the mastery of striking, it looks better in my opinion.


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## Oli (Jun 6, 2013)

Mrboogie23 said:


> I hear ya, I enjoy MMA. I've done BJJ. My brother got a bronze in BJJ at the pan am games. My family has all rolled a bit, but my family also loves boxing more. Just the mastery of striking, it looks better in my opinion.


Ironically enough good strikers are my favourite style of MMA fighters. That and Kickboxers/Muay Thai MMA guys. Wrestlers and submission artists are much less my style.

But I'm relatively new to the sport and it has taken hold of me in a way that boxing has failed to do for some time now.


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## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

Oli said:


> Ironically enough good strikers are my favourite style of MMA fighters. That and Kickboxers/Muay Thai MMA guys. Wrestlers and submission artists are much less my style.
> 
> But I'm relatively new to the sport and it has taken hold of me in a way that boxing has failed to do for some time now.


I hear ya, I agree about the strikers in MMA. I'd rather watch a good striker than a wrestler/grappler any day. Following along those same lines is why I'd rather watch boxing. Just better hand striking technique overall. Granted some of the boxing techniques aren't suitable for an MMA fight but I'd still rather watch a master boxing, infighter like Toney go to work than someone in a Thai clinch.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Oli said:


> I would have agreed but massive let downs in the fights that actually do get made have changed my opinion on it.
> 
> For instance the upcoming Ward vs Kovalev is going to be a shit ass fight. That is gunna be boring as fuck with no real drama most likely. At least that's my prediction anyway. And if it comes true il just think "ah well I'm used to this now". More often than not these days I sit through a lot of boxing wanting it to be over rather being engrossed in it.
> 
> I watched the UFC at the weekend was couldn't take my eyes off any of it. And that included women fighting! For fucks sake. You simply get what you want in UFC.. an action packed fight between two good fighters both with a chance of winning. Can you say that for boxing these days?


It's high-level boxing between two undefeated top pound for pound fighters. Even if the outcome isn't dramatic and exciting, it's going to be high level and display skill that not everyone (that probably no one today, in fact) can emulate. That's enough for me. Shutting down a skilled and devastating puncher like Kovalev, if that's what Ward ends up doing, has to be done with elite level timing, precision, and versatility. That's just one but an important side of the beauty of boxing.

If you're asking if boxing has delivered any wars lately, then sure. LSC-Frampton, Salido-Vargas, Thurman-Porter, Gonzales-Cuadras, Vargas-Ali, GGG-Brook, JSK-Kamegai were all entertaining fights. Despite this being one of boxing's worst years.

If you just want action then yeah, UFC is definitely the place to go. The wild swings and lack of defense ensure anyone throwing hands is going to get clocked.


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## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

Mrboogie23 said:


> Bullshit, there are loads of other fighters in other companies that are skilled.


Skilled sure, but take a look at the p4p lists, or the rankings irrespective of orgs. 90% plus of the elite are signed with the UFC.

And nobody can build a good enough resume outside of the UFC to be considered The Man. The onus is always on a Bellator champion to cross over and prove himself against his division's UFC champion, not the other way round. :good

:hat


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## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> If you just want action then yeah, UFC is definitely the place to go. *The wild swings and lack of defense ensure anyone throwing hands is going to get clocked.*


:lol:

And the 4 ounce gloves, and the multiple other avenues of attack to have to defend against.

Plus, there is plenty of top-shelf striking in the UFC, both offensive and defensive. Watch Jose Aldo vs Frankie Edgar, Aldo puts on a counterstriking masterclass against a high-volume, technically-sound pressure fighter. I don't understand how anybody can be a striking fan and turn his nose up at fights like Wonderboy-Hendricks, Lawler-McDonald, Joanna-Claudia etc. It just seems like snobbishness and insecurity to me. :conf

:hat


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## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

Oli said:


> Boxing is more or less finished. Just doesn't have the credibility or wow factor it once had. It has become a parody of itself.
> 
> There is simply no value in boxing for the fan. Nothing in it. It doesn't offer anything anymore.
> 
> ...


American young guys who are becoming combat sports fans now, aren't becoming boxing fans. Why would they? Boxing doesn't give a single fuck about them as fans.

:hat


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## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

UFC has a great ranking system and they are the only premier sanctioning body of MMA. The only way it can fracture and make it resemble something like boxing is if stars like McGregor and a returning Rousey (who would hypothetically beat Nunes) decided to dump the UFC belts in the trash and jump to Bellator :lol:


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## Oli (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> It's high-level boxing between two undefeated top pound for pound fighters. Even if the outcome isn't dramatic and exciting, it's going to be high level and display skill that not everyone (that probably no one today, in fact) can emulate. That's enough for me. Shutting down a skilled and devastating puncher like Kovalev, if that's what Ward ends up doing, has to be done with elite level timing, precision, and versatility. That's just one but an important side of the beauty of boxing.
> 
> If you're asking if boxing has delivered any wars lately, then sure. LSC-Frampton, Salido-Vargas, Thurman-Porter, Gonzales-Cuadras, Vargas-Ali, GGG-Brook, JSK-Kamegai were all entertaining fights. Despite this being one of boxing's worst years.
> 
> If you just want action then yeah, UFC is definitely the place to go. The wild swings and lack of defense ensure anyone throwing hands is going to get clocked.


I think that's an oversimplification of the truth mate.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Oli said:


> I think that's an oversimplification of the truth mate.


There's plenty in UFC you get in terms of styles that you don't get in boxing, for sure. But I think the casual MMA fan just wants to see blood and isn't hard to impress.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

We need to clone this man and bring him back:


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

rjjfan said:


> We need to clone this man and bring him back:


Already happened:









The experiment has failed.

You can't clone chaos.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Already happened:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed, tricky thing science is.


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## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> There's plenty in UFC you get in terms of styles that you don't get in boxing, for sure. But I think the casual MMA fan just wants to see blood and isn't hard to impress.


The casual MMA fan just wants to see top fighters throwing down against each other in competitive, pick 'em matches. Not top fighters avoiding each other for years while taking on a succession of pointless squash matches whose only purpose is to pad and inflate one guy's record.

It's funny how the boxing snobs organize their twin complaints about MMA.

1) There's no technique! It just looks like two drunks scrapping outside a bar! The casual fan just wants to see blood and violence, they don't give a fuck about skills or technique!

or:

2) It's boring, all they do is roll on the ground! Who wants to see _*that *_shit?

How do you reconcile those two critiques? :lol:

And as far as the casual fan goes, the fighter who made the most of a name for himself last weekend was Khabib Nurmagomedov. Whose fight was an absolute mauling on the ground, and who impressed the casuals as being a terrifying monster. :lol:


__
 http://instagr.am/p/BMu70cZj2X9/

:hat


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## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

Haggis said:


> The casual MMA fan just wants to see top fighters throwing down against each other in competitive, pick 'em matches. Not top fighters avoiding each other for years while taking on a succession of pointless squash matches whose only purpose is to pad and inflate one guy's record.
> 
> It's funny how the boxing snobs organize their twin complaints about MMA.
> 
> ...


Haggis, their hand technique is not anywhere the level of pro boxers. Period. I've done both with some pretty decent pro fighters. Heard of Jackson Wink? My city has put out loads of champions in boxing and MMA. Even MMA fighters will tell that their hand striking isn't on the level of high level boxers, and guess what, that's okay. No one is saying MMA is some piece of shit product, it's not, I respect it, I watch it. I'd just rather watch a boxing match and guess what, that's fine.


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## gumbo2176 (May 17, 2013)

There's not been a boxing card or UFC card in my part of the world in ages, but just from watching them on TV, it seems the UFC cards do draw a hell of a lot more folks to them. Even my wife commented that she couldn't believe the amount of people in many of those auditoriums when they do a pan shot of the crowd.

Sometimes the UFC fights can get a bit on the boring side, but considering most of them are only 3 rounds and they are out the cage, it is bearable. As a long time boxing fan I prefer the standup art of fighting that it showcases and not all the BJJ, two sweaty guys on the mat looking like they are having a bromance.

Also as a boxing first fan, I find most UFC fighters aren't all that good at the striking aspect of their sport. To hear people say the Diaz brothers are great strikers just floors me since any journeyman boxer would eat their lunch. But if they got the boxer on the ground, my money would be on them.


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## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

gumbo2176 said:


> There's not been a boxing card or UFC card in my part of the world in ages, but just from watching them on TV, it seems the UFC cards do draw a hell of a lot more folks to them. Even my wife commented that she couldn't believe the amount of people in many of those auditoriums when they do a pan shot of the crowd.
> 
> Sometimes the UFC fights can get a bit on the boring side, but considering most of them are only 3 rounds and they are out the cage, it is bearable. As a long time boxing fan I prefer the standup art of fighting that it showcases and not all the BJJ, two sweaty guys on the mat looking like they are having a bromance.
> 
> Also as a boxing first fan, I find most UFC fighters aren't all that good at the striking aspect of their sport. To hear people say the Diaz brothers are great strikers just floors me since any journeyman boxer would eat their lunch. But if they got the boxer on the ground, my money would be on them.


This


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## Lampley (Jun 4, 2013)

I don't think the two sports need to be at odds with each other. It's not like they both have multiple events per week. If boxing were as healthy as MMA, you'd be able to string together 4-5 very nice combat sports cards per month. They really ought to be sharing a demographic, but being a boxing fan requires patience that a lot of people don't care to exercise. There's a reason boxing skews so much older.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

I don't know man, every time I see an MMA match it just seems like a sloppy striking plus wresltin match with kicking thrown in there.

I mean it's like if they suddenly added a soccer goal and a field goal post to a basket ball court and made a new sport where you allow two teams to score anyway they want.

You're gonna see some sloppy ass dribbling and shooting, and some sloppy ass kicking. That's what MMA is to me.

I understand its maturing and technique is getting better but I'd much rather see two guys that trained on one thing and have mastered it.


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## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I don't know man, every time I see an MMA match it just seems like a sloppy striking plus wresltin match with kicking thrown in there.
> 
> I mean it's like if they suddenly added a soccer goal and a field goal post to a basket ball court and made a new sport where you allow two teams to score anyway they want.
> 
> ...


It's because many of these guys train in multiple disciplines whereas boxers focus on one thing. It allows them to become specialists. In MMA, specialists, like wrestlers, BJJ guys have to learn other disciplines. It's not a specialist discipline, it's more of a jack of all trades deal. Which is cool.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Mrboogie23 said:


> It's because many of these guys train in multiple disciplines whereas boxers focus on one thing. It allows them to become specialists. In MMA, specialists, like wrestlers, BJJ guys have to learn other disciplines. It's not a specialist discipline, it's more of a jack of all trades deal. Which is cool.


Yep, I respect them for that, and I can see why that's exciting for some people to watch.

But me, I'll take two guys getting in there with only their fists and seeing what they can do to come out on top.


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## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Yep, I respect them for that, and I can see why that's exciting for some people to watch.
> 
> But me, I'll take two guys getting in there with only their fists and seeing what they can do to come out on top.


Completely agree.


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## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

Mrboogie23 said:


> Haggis, their hand technique is not anywhere the level of pro boxers. Period.


Hand technique of the current HW champion:









Hand technique of the last HW champion, a HW ATG who reigned for a decade:










Ah, I'm just fuckin' with ya. :lol:

No shit that MMA fighter's punches aren't as evolved as boxer's. You realize that people aren't watching MMA just for the punching? Or that the very nature of the sport requires a completely different set of punching skills and techniques that boxing fans almost always completely dismiss? Floyd puts on masterclasses in the ring, but how much do you think his lean-back shoulder roll technique is worth when Jose Aldo can simply kick his lead leg into bolivian? Every punching-focused fighter in MMA has to deal with that and retool his entire punching technique - from the _most basic fundamentals_ up - accordingly. Boxing snobs might scoff at and ridicule Wonderboy's hands-by-his-waist, feet-miles-apart style, but in pure fighting terms it's better than any boxer's style because it doesn't assume that his opponent's skillset is so limited.

And it's not like every boxing match is some technical masterclass. Far from it. Most boxing matches are pretty sloppy, and there's an unfortunate *epidemic* of blatant mismatches. Nothing worse than a 10 round undercard fight between two guys you've never heard of and don't give a fuck about, where two rounds into the fight you can see that one guy doesn't have the skill or heart to win rounds, and the other guy doesn't have the power or will to KO him.



Mrboogie23 said:


> No one is saying MMA is some piece of shit product, it's not, I respect it, I watch it. I'd just rather watch a boxing match and guess what, that's fine.


*Plenty* of boxing snobs cry all day about how worthless MMA is. :lol: Although to be fair it's generally not routinely dismissed as a soon-to-disappear fad any more, as the last few years have seen it explode WAY past that point.

I'd rather watch an MMA card anyday, and I used to be a *hardcore *boxing fan. Because I know when I tune into the UFC, I'll see top contenders fighting each other. I'll see fights of actual divisional significance on the undercard. And the prelims will be full of 50/50 fights where the booking isn't "We need someone for the kid to look good against, bring in some 5-13, 42 year old part-time fighter so he can get another bullshit KO and run his record to a sweet 18-0." :good

How many fight fans watch every fight in a boxing card? Only the REAL hardcores, because why would you bother? 95% of the time you just look at their records and know at a glance who is going to win. Because the fight has been booked not for a good sporting contest for the fans, but *specifically *for one of them to win it and pad his record.

How many MMA fans watch all 10 fights in a UFC PPV? _Plenty_, and why? Because the matchmaking is fantastic, and almost every fight is competitive on paper and features two guys who are actually here to win the fight, and who are hungry to move up a level. Like it _should _be - but isn't in boxing. :good

:hat


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## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I don't know man, every time I see an MMA match it just seems like a sloppy striking plus wresltin match with kicking thrown in there.
> 
> I mean it's like if they suddenly added a soccer goal and a field goal post to a basket ball court and made a new sport where you allow two teams to score anyway they want.
> 
> ...


It's a fight. It's not a "new sport." And there are plenty of world-class strikers competing in MMA. Plus, there's nothing like an evenly-matched fight between two guys who are capable everywhere the fight goes, where they have a good fight that flows naturally all over the cage as each guy searches for anywhere that he might have an advantage. :good

:hat


----------



## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

Haggis said:


> Hand technique of the current HW champion:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with the idea of your post broski. Just saying for me personally, I'd rather watch boxing. I'm a hand striking snob. Greg Jackson used to use my brother to tool up wrestlers that wanted to go in and think they were tough guys but couldn't throw a punch to save their lives. My family is a bunch of boxers first but we all messed with MMA. I like MMA, I genuinely do, just would rather watch a proper left hook from boxer.

Not that a dope take down with some ground and pound, or some sly ass rolling and submission is any less entertaining, I enjoy that stuff too, but for me, the boxer is a thing of beauty. (A good one anyway.)


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Haggis said:


> It's a fight. It's not a "new sport." And there are plenty of world-class strikers competing in MMA. Plus, there's nothing like an evenly-matched fight between two guys who are capable everywhere the fight goes, where they have a good fight that flows naturally all over the cage as each guy searches for anywhere that he might have an advantage. :good
> 
> :hat


It definitely is a relatively new sport. There's rules and timed rounds that did not exist until very recently.


----------



## Slimtrae (Aug 10, 2015)

Cableaddict said:


> Everything except something resembling skill.
> 
> Exciting, but it looked like a drunken street fight.


Not a fan of street fights?? Word going around is that cableaddict is one helluva street fighter!!

After 3 or 4 beers... .he has a helluva fight getting up off the street!!:deadmanny


----------



## Slimtrae (Aug 10, 2015)

JK!


----------



## gumbo2176 (May 17, 2013)

UFC puts me in mind of 2 highly skilled street fighters and the only rules they have to obey are, No Biting, No Kicking In The Nuts, and No Eye Gouging. Other than that, it seems anything goes.


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

gumbo2176 said:


> UFC puts me in mind of 2 highly skilled street fighters and the only rules they have to obey are, No Biting, No Kicking In The Nuts, and No Eye Gouging. Other than that, it seems anything goes.


No small joint manipulation.

No back-of-the-head or spine/throat strikes.

No kicking or kneeing the head of a downed opponent. :good

:hat


----------



## jonnytightlips (Jun 14, 2012)

Boxing's biggest problem is the promoters and fighters being absolute pussies. The UFC didn't string along McGregor and the likes for years to make shitloads of money and then make a big fight like boxing does. I'm sick to the fucking teeth of boxing's excuses. Promoters not working each other, hiding behind television deals and letting fights marinate. Not every big fight needs to be a massive fuckin event. 

Boxing has definitely fallen behind in terms of popularity I'd say now. In my experience anyway. People could name more UFC fighters than they could active boxers. 

Boxing has itself to blame for this.


----------



## gumbo2176 (May 17, 2013)

Haggis said:


> No small joint manipulation.
> 
> No back-of-the-head or spine/throat strikes.
> 
> ...


Hell, now you're taking all the fun out of it.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

jonnytightlips said:


> Boxing's biggest problem is the promoters and fighters being absolute pussies. The UFC didn't string along McGregor and the likes for years to make shitloads of money and then make a big fight like boxing does. I'm sick to the fucking teeth of boxing's excuses. Promoters not working each other, hiding behind television deals and letting fights marinate. Not every big fight needs to be a massive fuckin event.
> 
> Boxing has definitely fallen behind in terms of popularity I'd say now. In my experience anyway. People could name more UFC fighters than they could active boxers.
> 
> Boxing has itself to blame for this.


Boxing is too widespread for one bald fuck like White to control it all.

I agree with you though, these promoters are killing the sport with the way they do business.


----------



## jonnytightlips (Jun 14, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Boxing is too widespread for one bald fuck like White to control it all.
> 
> I agree with you though, these promoters are killing the sport with the way they do business.


I know. But one governing body would help a lot. I've seen people bring up the argument before that it helps sales of a fight if there is a belt of some sort on the line but I think that's bollocks as well. At the end of the day do fans really give a fuck about alphabet trinkets. I don't think so.

Fact is throughout every division there are good fights to be made. For example, the likes of David Lemieux, Andy Lee, Curtis Stevens and BJS might never win a title again and in Stevens case ever but why not have these people fight each other. You'd be fairly confident of none of them ever getting in the ring with each other.

On the middleweight division a few years ago you had Barker, Murray, Macklin, Lee all campaigning around the world level and not one fight between those got made which is a fuckin joke.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

jonnytightlips said:


> On the middleweight division a few years ago you had Barker, Murray, Macklin, Lee all campaigning around the world level and not one fight between those got made which is a fuckin joke.


Sergio ran through them all though.


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Haggis said:


> Any UFC champion is the champion of the world. They have a near-monopoly on the world's best fighters in every division, and nobody outside of their org has access to a strong enough pool of opponents to be considered more of The Man than his division's UFC kingpin. The only big-name guy who is percieved as a potential UFC champion who has never fought in the org, is Ben Askren. And his ONE FC pool of opponents is absolutely nothing compared to the monsters at the top of the UFC WW division. Rory McDonald is easily Bellator's highest-ranked guy, and he came up (_juuuust_) short in his UFC title shot last year.
> 
> Also McGregor in particular has a lot of power over choosing his own opponents. FAR more than basically any other UFC fighter.
> 
> :hat


Disagree, Pride by far had the best fighters. UFC rules cater to grapplers, as compared to others where you can punish stuffed takedowns.


----------



## The Kraken (Apr 19, 2014)

The thing is, people would always rather see this






than this






when it comes to world class hands, once they get over the power, they start to understand the technique, even the casuals know


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

The Kraken said:


> The thing is, people would always rather see this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This was like watching two drunks outside the bar


----------



## The Kraken (Apr 19, 2014)

paloalto00 said:


> This was like watching two drunks outside the bar


Alvarez is a wrestler first and a Mixed martial artist second, McGregor was a boxer first and a martial artist second, it shows, the casuals are mesmerised that Conor decked Eddie so easy

Yet they now think Conor could stand a chance against Mayweather because he knocked out Alvarez






Eddies trainer Mark Henry, after saying McGregor couldn't box with Alvarez (a wrestler) the KO result suddenly changed his mind to McGregor being able to beat Mayweather in boxing


----------



## The Kraken (Apr 19, 2014)

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/tyson-fury-tweet.png?w=607&strip=all


----------



## The Kraken (Apr 19, 2014)

Haggis said:


> No small joint manipulation.
> 
> No back-of-the-head or spine/throat strikes.
> 
> ...


Absolutely, I think Tito Ortiz in his prime would have manhandled Lee Murray in the octagon, but on the streets in a scrap, he "Lit up Tito like a Christmas tree"

There are some animals out there who would literally bite half your face off given the chance, I guess Murray coming out to the Octagon in a hannibal mask wasn't just for show


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

The Kraken said:


> Alvarez is a wrestler first and a Mixed martial artist second, McGregor was a boxer first and a martial artist second, it shows, the casuals are mesmerised that Conor decked Eddie so easy
> 
> Yet they now think Conor could stand a chance against Mayweather because he knocked out Alvarez
> 
> ...


I've come to the conclusion that the vast majority of the MMA community doesn't know shit, coaches and fighters includeded


----------



## The Kraken (Apr 19, 2014)

paloalto00 said:


> I've come to the conclusion that the vast majority of the MMA community doesn't know shit, coaches and fighters includeded


They try their best, I did see one prospect using a shoulder roll effectively, Joe Rogan was stunned, since he was the one who said it woudn't work in MMA, forget the guys name


----------



## The Kraken (Apr 19, 2014)

GSP was the one who introduced the jab to mainstream MMA


----------



## The Kraken (Apr 19, 2014)

This is one of my fv finishes though


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

paloalto00 said:


> Disagree, Pride by far had the best fighters. UFC rules cater to grapplers, as compared to others where you can punish stuffed takedowns.


PRIDE doesn't exist anymore, and hasn't for years. When PRIDE collapsed, the UFC wasn't even on Fox yet.

:hat


----------



## The Kraken (Apr 19, 2014)




----------



## The Kraken (Apr 19, 2014)

Haggis said:


> PRIDE doesn't exist anymore, and hasn't for years. When PRIDE collapsed, the UFC wasn't even on Fox yet.
> 
> :hat


You know when Dave Boy McAuley and the likes of Baby ake used to fight, they wore 6 oz gloves ,same weight as PRIDE gloves


----------



## The Kraken (Apr 19, 2014)

The Kraken said:


> This is one of my fv finishes though


Tito actually has a good guard here, Chuck was just too much of a demon


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

paloalto00 said:


> UFC rules cater to grapplers, as compared to others where you can punish stuffed takedowns.


You could just as easily say that the UFC environment caters to strikers, so it's a wash. It's much easier to trap someone like Wonderboy or McGregor against the ropes in a ring than it is to corner him inside an octagon. :good

:hat


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Haggis said:


> PRIDE doesn't exist anymore, and hasn't for years. When PRIDE collapsed, the UFC wasn't even on Fox yet.
> 
> :hat


Pride was around when Gracie was making a name in UFC. Ironically, he was getting whooped in pride


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

paloalto00 said:


> Pride was around when Gracie was making a name in UFC. Ironically, he was getting whooped in pride


Mate, that's the dark ages. :lol:

This is now. Because PRIDE existed and had most of the best fighters 15 years ago, doesn't mean that the UFC doesn't have a near-monopoly on the top level of the sport in 2016.

:hat


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Haggis said:


> You could just as easily say that the UFC environment caters to strikers, so it's a wash. It's much easier to trap someone like Wonderboy or McGregor against the ropes in a ring than it is to corner him inside an octagon. :good
> 
> :hat


The octagon definitely favors wrestlers. You can pin on a cage, ropes have give and the fight is usually reset since they rnd up out if the ring. Courture vs Vera is a good example


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Haggis said:


> Mate, that's the dark ages. :lol:
> 
> This is now. Because PRIDE existed and had most of the best fighters 15 years ago, doesn't mean that the UFC doesn't have a near-monopoly on the top level of the sport in 2016.
> 
> :hat


Based on what? They have better marketing of course, but quality? The champs have a very short half life


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

paloalto00 said:


> The octagon definitely favors wrestlers. You can pin on a cage, ropes have give and the fight is usually reset since they rnd up out if the ring. Courture vs Vera is a good example


It favours strikers with good movement. But a ring is just a ridiculous and stupid environment for an MMA fight anyway.

:hat


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

paloalto00 said:


> Based on what? They have better marketing of course, but quality? The champs have a very short half life


Based on the fact that it's very difficult for anyone outside of the UFC to be regarded as the #1 guy in the world. Ben Askren is clearly elite and might well be good enough to wear UFC WW gold, but he's fighting absolute nobodies on the Asian regional scene. If anyone is going to think of Askren as The Man at 155 pounds across all orgs, how is he going to get there? Who is he going to fight?

Also, champs have a short half life a) because of the nature of the sport, and b) because it's tough defence after tough defence. PRIDE champions tended to have longer reigns, but they also had a steady diet of non-title fights and ridiculous gimmicky squash matches against guys with no business being in with top-level elite MMA fighters.

:hat


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Haggis said:


> *Based on the fact that it's very difficult for anyone outside of the UFC to be regarded as the #1 guy in the world*. Ben Askren is clearly elite and might well be good enough to wear UFC WW gold, but he's fighting absolute nobodies on the Asian regional scene. If anyone is going to think of Askren as The Man at 155 pounds across all orgs, how is he going to get there? Who is he going to fight?
> 
> :hat


Probably because of the marketing...like I said. We've seen UFC guys get beat by newcomers all the time


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

paloalto00 said:


> Probably because of the marketing...like I said. We've seen UFC guys get beat by newcomers all the time


We have also seen highly-regarded guys from other orgs come over and flop when they step in the cage against ranked UFC competition. And as time has gone on, the gap between the UFC and the other orgs has only widened. Bellator isn't even trying to go head to head on quality MMA, they're doing some high-level fights and their biggest cards are based around freakshow/novelty fights.

:hat


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Haggis said:


> We have also seen highly-regarded guys from other orgs come over and flop when they step in the cage against ranked UFC competition.
> 
> :hat


Examples? Also UFC has stricter rules when it comes to strikes


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

paloalto00 said:


> Examples?


Cro Cop, Wandy, Shogun, Melendez, Nick Diaz.

:hat


----------



## The Kraken (Apr 19, 2014)

Haggis said:


> Cro Cop, Wandy, Shogun.
> 
> :hat


Careful now, Cro cop was on the slide when Gonzaga headkicked him


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

The Kraken said:


> Careful now, Cro cop was on the slide when Gonzaga headkicked him


Sure he was, but he was expected to make a lot more noise than he did. It was thought that he was guaranteed to pose a serious threat to the title, at least. Nobody expected him to get annihilated by a career journeyman and end up with pretty much no notable wins in the UFC. I mean his best feel-good win in the Octagon was probably Gonzaga 2.

:hat


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Haggis said:


> Cro Cop, Wandy, Shogun, Melendez, Nick Diaz.
> 
> :hat


Cro cop, and wanderlai were already past it. Nick came from small time gigs


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Haggis said:


> Sure he was, but he was expected to make a lot more noise than he did. It was thought that he was guaranteed to pose a serious threat to the title, at least. Nobody expected him to get annihilated by a career journeyman and end up with pretty much no notable wins in the UFC. I mean his best feel-good win in the Octagon was probably Gonzaga 2.
> 
> :hat


You're using the knowledge of casuals to fuel your sorry argument....


----------



## It's Too Big (Jun 28, 2013)

I dunno about in the USA, but here in UK I feel UFC is getting more popular than boxing. Not enough big fights being made in boxing, which is resulting in interest in the sport dwindling, even from fairly hardcore fans like myself. If the fights start getting made then great, but I think the purses in UFC/Bellator aren't on the level of boxing which makes it easier to make the big fights. Because of so much money in boxing, you got top 10 guys asking for stupid pay for not really beating many good fighters. I am no expert on the matchmaking and purses in UFC/MMA, so don't quote me on that, but I believe there's some truth to what I have said.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)




----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


>


This makes me feel better about being short


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

I wouldn't exactly call Shogun a flop. Though tapping to Forrest and Sonnen was outright embarrassing for an ATG.....


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

turbotime said:


> I wouldn't exactly call Shogun a flop. Though tapping to Forrest and Sonnen was outright embarrassing for an ATG.....


He wouldn't know, he's being a Wiki warrior right now


----------



## Kampioni (May 16, 2013)

UFC is currently succeeding. Hate to say it but I have been watching more UFC fights this year than boxing. Terrible fuckin year for boxing.


----------



## E R Vegas (May 16, 2013)

Thomas Crewz said:


> Biggest difference for me is that boxing promotes fights and fighters first. UFC promotes the sport (or the brand more specifically) first and then the fights/fighters. If a crossover star arrises out of this set up, like Mcgregor, then great. If not, then people will still tune in to UFC-whatevernumber- just because it is UFC.


This is a great point.

A part of that is that the UFC is like the NFL or NBA. With rare exceptions, you know a guy who gets to that level is pretty legit. So, watching a UFC event, you know you're getting the big leagues, which is great for casuals.

They have a regular rotation of guys who are in the "league," and fight several times a year. You can watch a few events, read a blog or something here and there and have a half decent idea of what's going on, just like with the big team sports.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

I hate to say it, but I watched a full UFC card for the first time in a long time the other week and Boxing just can't really compete any more unless there is serious reform. We need more competitive under cards, less belts and champions fighting champions. It won't happen though.


----------



## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

Get ready for the MMA belts fracturing as Bellator signs Fedor.

And in true Bellator fashion, they will probably make his debut match with Mitrione for the vacant HW title


----------



## Irländsk (Jun 3, 2013)

UFC destroys boxing in every way at the moment.
The top guys always fight each other in the UFC. In boxing it's a very rare event, and usually ends in a disappointing bore of a fight when it finally does happen.
Cherry picking and greed have ruined boxing.


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

KOTF said:


> Get ready for the MMA belts fracturing as Bellator signs Fedor.
> 
> And in true Bellator fashion, they will probably make his debut match with Mitrione for the vacant HW title


Well you called the match, but 2016 Fedor has no impact on the legitimacy of the UFC HW belt. :good

(Mitrione's gonna KO him anyway)

:hat


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Irländsk said:


> UFC destroys boxing in every way at the moment.


Unless you actually prefer boxing.


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> It definitely is a relatively new sport. There's rules and timed rounds that did not exist until very recently.


We can argue semantics. It's a new sport in the sense that the current format and specific ruleset haven't been around for very long. But it's not something like your example, that just got made up out of thin air. It's just an amalgamation of fight sports.

And specialists in different disciplines can turn the fight into their specialty anyway. Hendricks vs Wonderboy is a classic wrestler vs striker matchup. But Hendricks couldn't get the takedown or even close the distance, so Wonderboy effortlessly carved him up in what essentially ended up as a straight kickboxing match. But the appeal of that fight wasn't to see Hendrick's competent-level striking on display vs a kickboxing world champion. It was to see if this elite wrestler could crack the stylistic puzzle of an elite kickboxer/karate guy who loves to fight at long range.

Styles make fights - can this guy's fighting style impose itself on that guy's completely different fighting style? Which base discipline is most effective against the widest range of styles? We don't watch it to see guys who are masters of everything. We watch it to see who can adapt, who can fight smart, and which skillset asks the toughest questions of the most opponents. :good

:hat


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Haggis said:


> We can argue semantics. It's a new sport in the sense that the current format and specific ruleset haven't been around for very long. But it's not something like your example, that just got made up out of thin air. It's just an amalgamation of fight sports.
> 
> And specialists in different disciplines can turn the fight into their specialty anyway. Hendricks vs Wonderboy is a classic wrestler vs striker matchup. But Hendricks couldn't get the takedown or even close the distance, so Wonderboy effortlessly carved him up in what essentially ended up as a straight kickboxing match. But the appeal of that fight wasn't to see Hendrick's competent-level striking on display vs a kickboxing world champion. It was to see if this elite wrestler could crack the stylistic puzzle of an elite kickboxer/karate guy who loves to fight at long range.
> 
> ...


I think this is what it used to be, and when I first heard of MMA that's the idea I had in mind. Instead if pretty much has turned into people being shitty at a little bit of everything.


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

paloalto00 said:


> I think this is what it used to be, and when I first heard of MMA that's the idea I had in mind. Instead if pretty much has turned into people being shitty at a little bit of everything.


If you're elite at nothing, you won't go far in the sport. The lower ranks of the UFC are FILLED with guys who are decent/competent at everything. The higher ranks are filled with guys who are world class at one aspect of fighting, and good enough at the others that they can usually force the fight into their world.

Conor is mediocre at BJJ and offensive wrestling by UFC standards. But he is a devastating striker, so he has found success. Khabib's striking is wild and crude. But once he clasps two hands around an opponent's limb, he won't lose a five-second stretch of the fight from then on. If you think that the sport at the top level is guys being mediocre at everything, then either you're not watching, or you're not understanding what you are seeing. :good

:hat


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Haggis said:


> If you're elite at nothing, you won't go far in the sport. The lower ranks of the UFC are FILLED with guys who are decent/competent at everything. The higher ranks are filled with guys who are world class at one aspect of fighting, and good enough at the others that they can usually force the fight into their world.
> 
> Conor is mediocre at BJJ and offensive wrestling by UFC standards. But he is a devastating striker, so he has found success. Khabib's striking is wild and crude. But once he clasps two hands around an opponent's limb, he won't lose a five-second stretch of the fight from then on. If you think that the sport at the top level is guys being mediocre at everything, then either you're not watching, or you're not understanding what you are seeing. :good
> 
> :hat


I agree that those who come from a discipline and use the others to enable their art would be at the top, Conor and Joanna. At this point they're far and few between though.


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

paloalto00 said:


> I agree that those who come from a discipline and use the others to enable their art would be at the top, Conor and Joanna. At this point they're far and few between though.


Are they, though? There are many fighters at the top of the divisions who have very impressive world-level credentials in other combat sports. Joanna with Muay Thai/kickboxing, Maia and Werdum with BJJ, Wonderboy with kickboxing, Khabib with *****, Romero with wrestling, it goes on and on. :good

:hat


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Haggis said:


> We can argue semantics. It's a new sport in the sense that the current format and specific ruleset haven't been around for very long. But it's not something like your example, that just got made up out of thin air. It's just an amalgamation of fight sports.
> 
> And specialists in different disciplines can turn the fight into their specialty anyway. Hendricks vs Wonderboy is a classic wrestler vs striker matchup. But Hendricks couldn't get the takedown or even close the distance, so Wonderboy effortlessly carved him up in what essentially ended up as a straight kickboxing match. But the appeal of that fight wasn't to see Hendrick's competent-level striking on display vs a kickboxing world champion. It was to see if this elite wrestler could crack the stylistic puzzle of an elite kickboxer/karate guy who loves to fight at long range.
> 
> ...


It is definitely a new sport, sure wrestling, jujitsu, boxing, ect. have been around forever but MMA is something different and new. I'm not nit picking here it's just a fact.

You can watch for whatever reason you want to watch. I personally find boxing a little more refined and the whole "who would win if a wrestler fought a black belt" thing kind of gimmicky.


----------



## It's Too Big (Jun 28, 2013)

I would like to see an event with world title level boxing and mma both on the same card. There must be a gap somewhere for this to happen with both sports competing against one another. Maybe a lot harder to organise in reality though.


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Bogo loud and proud about not knowing the nuances of MMA


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

UFC and MMA in general is not where I (and most) thought they would be in 2016, not at all.... but damn this year was horrible for boxing, boxing people are the ones to be blamed though, nobody else.....


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Being one organization helps, they pick and choose who they bring in and they all fight under one umbrella. I personally can't get into watching it, but it's perfect for the casual fight fan


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> It is definitely a new sport, sure wrestling, jujitsu, boxing, ect. have been around forever but MMA is something different and new. I'm not nit picking here it's just a fact.
> 
> You can watch for whatever reason you want to watch. I personally find boxing a little more refined and the whole "who would win if a wrestler fought a black belt" thing kind of gimmicky.


I tuned into UFC for this exact gimmick back in the day, but unfortunately it's turned into sloppy boxing and wrestling


----------



## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

KOTF said:


> Get ready for the MMA belts fracturing as Bellator signs Fedor.
> 
> And in true Bellator fashion, they will probably make his debut match with Mitrione for the vacant HW title


Fedor won't accomplish anything in Bellator and will only be there to try and improve ratings. He won't influence the division past this first fight. I say that as an enormous fan of the legend.


----------



## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

paloalto00 said:


> I think this is what it used to be, and when I first heard of MMA that's the idea I had in mind. Instead if pretty much has turned into people being shitty at a little bit of everything.


It really isn't though. The only top p4p guys in the UFC that seems to have even focus in almost all areas are Jon Jones and Aldo. I certainly wouldn't call him shitty at everything after he out wrestled an Olympic level wrestler like he was his little brother. And we saw what happened to Aldo against a guy who could time him in striking.

Yea. No top guys are complete amateurs anywhere, but most of them only have 1 or 2 real specialties which are supported by acceptable skills everywhere else.


----------



## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

paloalto00 said:


> I think this is what it used to be, and when I first heard of MMA that's the idea I had in mind. Instead if pretty much has turned into people being shitty at a little bit of everything.


Triple post.


----------



## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

paloalto00 said:


> I think this is what it used to be, and when I first heard of MMA that's the idea I had in mind. Instead if pretty much has turned into people being shitty at a little bit of everything.


Triple post


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

7 pages of posts on a boxing forum and nobody has pointed out the nuances of the fact that a fighter cannot simply utilise a regular boxing stance in an MMA fight, hence why the striking doesn't appease boxing fans. They haven't worked out why the guy can't simply stand in the pocket with his hands up and throw a combination.


----------



## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

Crean said:


> 7 pages of posts on a boxing forum and nobody has pointed out the nuances of the fact that a fighter cannot simply utilise a regular boxing stance in an MMA fight, hence why the striking doesn't appease boxing fans. They haven't worked out why the guy can't simply stand in the pocket with his hands up and throw a combination.


Cuz they all suck and boxing stances are super hard?


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> Cuz they all suck and boxing stances are super hard?


Apparently that's what some people would have you believe.


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> It really isn't though. The only top p4p guys in the UFC that seems to have even focus in almost all areas are Jon Jones and Aldo. I certainly wouldn't call him shitty at everything after he out wrestled an Olympic level wrestler like he was his little brother. And we saw what happened to Aldo against a guy who could time him in striking.
> 
> Yea. No top guys are complete amateurs anywhere, but most of them only have 1 or 2 real specialties which are supported by acceptable skills everywhere else.


The top dogs right now are the ones who came from a single discipline, Conor and Joanna. It's been a trend, at least the gyms I've walked into is that they spend the 2 hours in the gym doing everything but not excelling at it


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

This fight had EVERYONE talking about it


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

paloalto00 said:


> The top dogs right now are the ones who came from a single discipline, Conor and Joanna. It's been a trend, at least the gyms I've walked into is that they spend the 2 hours in the gym doing everything but not excelling at it


McGrgeor never came from a single discipline. Not in any different way to every other MMA fighter anyway.

Very few MMA fighters actually came from a pure MMA background. They didn't walk into an MMA gym at 12 years old or whatever. The vast majority anyway.


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Crean said:


> McGrgeor never came from a single discipline. Not in any different way to every other MMA fighter anyway.
> 
> Very few MMA fighters actually came from a pure MMA background. They didn't walk into an MMA gym at 12 years old or whatever. The vast majority anyway.


The vast majority of fighters I've met came into the sport in the 20s late teens


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

paloalto00 said:


> The vast majority of fighters I've met came into the sport in the 20s late teens


So what is your point?

Are you saying the top dogs came from a single discipline or are you saying the vast majority came from single disciplines?


----------



## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

paloalto00 said:


> The top dogs right now are the ones who came from a single discipline, Conor and Joanna. It's been a trend, at least the gyms I've walked into is that they spend the 2 hours in the gym doing everything but not excelling at it


Because that's how you learn the sport.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Bogo loud and proud about not knowing the nuances of MMA


Feel free to correct anything I've said although I haven't really made any statements that require being familiar with "nuances".


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Feel free to correct anything I've said although I haven't really made any statements that require being familiar with "nuances".


One can know many facts about something and still not 'get it'.


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

paloalto00 said:


> The top dogs right now are the ones who came from a single discipline, Conor and Joanna. It's been a trend, at least the gyms I've walked into is that they spend the 2 hours in the gym doing everything but not excelling at it


Conor is the mainstream superstar and Joanna is a fan favourite, but McGregor doesn't have any real background or achievements in anything but MMA. Joanna was a world champion level female kickboxer/Muay Thai who was trained by elite kickboxing legends though.

Re. your point, the top 5 rated p4p fighters in the official UFC are:

1) Mighty Mouse - wrestling background of sorts, but he is elite everywhere and is basically his division's best at every aspect of fighting in MMA. His best pure wrestling accolade was 2nd at the state championships in high school, yet he adapted his game to MMA to the point where he easily outwrestled and KO1 an Olympic gold medallist.

2) McGregor - a little bit of amateur boxing, nothing close to international level. He's an MMA striker, not a boxing-based guy.

3) Dominic Cruz - wrestled in high school, didn't wrestle in college due to an ankle injury. Picked up some amateur boxing and kickboxing, no real combat-sports achievements outside of MMA.

4) Daniel Cormier - Two-time Olympian in wrestling.

5) Jose Aldo - No combat-sports achievements outside of MMA. Played a lot of soccer growing up, and attributes his ridiculously quick and powerful leg kicks to that.

6) Stipe Miocic - Wrestled in college and was a Cleveland Golden Gloves champion, but his main sporting success pre-MMA was in baseball.

And then we have Jon Jones, who wrestled through high school but went to a community college after he got his girlfriend pregnant.

So out of the top 7 p4p fighters, only two of them had world-level combat sports experience before turning their hand to MMA. Primarily because it's so difficult to become truly world-level at something, and then as an adult switch focus, learn competence in every other facet, and re-learn your original sport to adapt it to the cage. World-level kickboxing is no good if you can't stuff a takedown. Olympic-level wrestling is no good if you can't consistently get in on a striker's hips. Etc etc etc. :good

:hat


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## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Feel free to correct anything I've said although I haven't really made any statements that require being familiar with "nuances".


Every card you watch, all you do is bitch about how there's no technique and you find it crude and it "hurts your eyes" and you think the outcome of every fight is just a random coinflip.

Well there is nothing crude about Wonderboy's striking technique, and if you watched UFC200, you watched an absolute clinic in defensive counterstriking when Aldo shut down Frankie Edgar. The striking skill is there and on display. You just don't care to see it, because you are too invested in being a boxing snob at all costs.

:hat


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## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

Haggis said:


> Conor is the mainstream superstar and Joanna is a fan favourite, but McGregor doesn't have any real background or achievements in anything but MMA. Joanna was a world champion level female kickboxer/Muay Thai who was trained by elite kickboxing legends though.
> 
> Re. your point, the top 5 rated p4p fighters in the official UFC are:
> 
> ...


Its one reason I feel we will see some really dangerous guys come out of Russia over the next decade. They are growing up on Sport ***** and Combat *****. It isn't MMA, but if you are high level at it, you will be comfortable trading strikes, and have grappling strength like you can't believe WITH a lifetime of training movement between the phases of a fight.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> One can know many facts about something and still not 'get it'.


So tell me what I'm not getting? Do I have to be a hardcore fan to "get it"?


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> So tell me what I'm not getting? Do I have to be a hardcore fan to "get it"?


No, you just have to open your mind and not be such a closed-off snobby cunt. Recognize that *no* boxer is going to walk into the cage and dominate with pure boxing, and that many/most of the pure boxing fundamentals (like the back-foot shoulder roll) are next to useless in the cage because of kicks and takedowns. Boxing is far too limited to work by itself in the top levels of MMA, and therefore no MMA fighter will *ever* look like a pure boxer. For example, they will ALWAYS have their feet further apart and their hands lower to allow them to suddenly sprawl at any moment to defend someone shooting in on them. So their boxing fundamentals will look wrong to you and you will shit all over them for it - but they are not boxing. They're _fighting_.

That doesn't mean that none of them can throw hands at all - it just means that they have a shitload of other options and things to worry about outside of punches coming back at them, and that impacts their entire approach to striking. How difficult is that to understand?

:hat


----------



## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

Haggis said:


> No, you just have to open your mind and not be such a closed-off snobby cunt. Recognize that *no* boxer is going to walk into the cage and dominate with pure boxing, and that many/most of the pure boxing fundamentals (like the back-foot shoulder roll) are next to useless in the cage because of kicks and takedowns. Boxing is far too limited to work by itself in the top levels of MMA, and therefore no MMA fighter will *ever* look like a pure boxer. For example, they will ALWAYS have their feet further apart and their hands lower to allow them to suddenly sprawl at any moment to defend someone shooting in on them. So their boxing fundamentals will look wrong to you and you will shit all over them for it - but they are not boxing. They're _fighting_.
> 
> That doesn't mean that none of them can throw hands at all - it just means that they have a shitload of other options and things to worry about outside of punches coming back at them, and that impacts their entire approach to striking. How difficult is that to understand?
> 
> :hat


Don't forget that it also means head movement is limited. don't want to be one of the people who tried to be like Mike and weave instead a kick from hell. an exaggerated danger but head movement is different


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## Crean (May 19, 2013)

Conor barely had any boxing experience, particularly from a competition point of view.

He entered a boxing gym at age 12 and had quit by 15. He was not an underage star, he didn't enter any competition of note. He was not on the radar at irish underage level by a long shot.


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## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

Crean said:


> Conor barely had any boxing experience, particularly from a competition point of view.
> 
> He entered a boxing gym at age 12 and had quit by 15. He was not an underage star, he didn't enter any competition of note. He was not on the radar at irish underage level by a long shot.


Kind of a shame. the more he gets into it better his hands look. that left looks like it's from hell as well


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> Kind of a shame. the more he gets into it better his hands look. that left looks like it's from hell as well


Yeah, maybe it is a shame. His coach at the time, a well known boxing coach from a great boxing family in Ireland said that at the time McGregor had a ridiculous appetite for work for such a young guy. He was disappointed when he told him he couldn't come down to the gym as regularly cos he was doing the MMA stuff. He thinks with the drive and work ethic he would of probably eventually made olympic level, but hard to tell seeing as though he walked out at 15.


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

Anyway, just thought I should point it out that mcgregor doesn't really come from a boxing background. Many pundits and commentators who should know better just splurge out that he came from a hardcore boxing background and that he was an accomplished boxer at some point. But, he simply wasn't. Not to say he couldn't be, but he left before that had the chance to happen.


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> Don't forget that it also means head movement is limited. don't want to be one of the people who tried to be like Mike and weave instead a kick from hell. an exaggerated danger but head movement is different


That's true.










Great stuff in a boxing ring and I'm sure it doesn't "hurt Bogo's eyes" - but look at how upright the stance is, how happy he is to stand on one foot, and how much distance there is between his gloves (perfectly positioned for boxing) and his waist. He does that against anybody with a decent wrestling background, and in two seconds he's flat on his back eating punches and elbows.

Or this -










Awesome head movement on the way in and the stuff of a boxing ATG - but look at Tyson's head as he closes distance initially. What does he leave himself near-suicidally open to?










:hat


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Haggis said:


> No, you just have to open your mind and not be such a closed-off snobby cunt. Recognize that *no* boxer is going to walk into the cage and dominate with pure boxing, and that many/most of the pure boxing fundamentals (like the back-foot shoulder roll) are next to useless in the cage because of kicks and takedowns. Boxing is far too limited to work by itself in the top levels of MMA, and therefore no MMA fighter will *ever* look like a pure boxer. For example, they will ALWAYS have their feet further apart and their hands lower to allow them to suddenly sprawl at any moment to defend someone shooting in on them. So their boxing fundamentals will look wrong to you and you will shit all over them for it - but they are not boxing. They're _fighting_.
> 
> That doesn't mean that none of them can throw hands at all - it just means that they have a shitload of other options and things to worry about outside of punches coming back at them, and that impacts their entire approach to striking. How difficult is that to understand?
> 
> :hat


Youre on ignore, arent you wasti g your time?

But youre 100% right here though. Besides true boxing not being workable in the octagon, when there are so many tenets to the sport it is forgivable if a fighter did not display a top level striking anyway.

Look how Tim Kennedy was taken apart this weekend, you would have believed Kennedy was a punk without realizing what a great wrestling ability he has.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Crean said:


> 7 pages of posts on a boxing forum and nobody has pointed out the nuances of the fact that a fighter cannot simply utilise a regular boxing stance in an MMA fight, hence why the striking doesn't appease boxing fans. They haven't worked out why the guy can't simply stand in the pocket with his hands up and throw a combination.


They're two different sports, no one expects an MMA fighter to go in there with a pure boxing stance and have much success.

Still, it's not a reach to say that the punching in boxing, a sport that has existed for more than 100 years and is pretty much focused on punching, is at least a tad more refined than that of a sport that started in the 90s by throwing sumo wrestlers in cage or whatever against Kenpo Karate black belts.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Youre on ignore, arent you wasti g your time?
> 
> But youre 100% right here though. Besides true boxing not being workable in the octagon, when there are so many tenets to the sport it is forgivable if a fighter did not display a top level striking anyway.
> 
> Look how Tim Kennedy was taken apart this weekend, you would have believed Kennedy was a punk without realizing what a great wrestling ability he has.


Nothing of what I've said has to do with how effective a top boxer would be if he crossed over into MMA. (Though the mixed results suggest the transition is much easier that way than an MMA fighter would have coming into boxing). The boxing that is used in MMA is still of a below average standard and that's why I don't prefer it. I'm not stopping anyone from enjoying MMA or the UFC.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Crean said:


> 7 pages of posts on a boxing forum and nobody has pointed out the nuances of the fact that a fighter cannot simply utilise a regular boxing stance in an MMA fight, hence why the striking doesn't appease boxing fans. They haven't worked out why the guy can't simply stand in the pocket with his hands up and throw a combination.


I've seen many bouts where the MMA fighter is indeed standing side-on like a boxing stance and they were still able to sprawl effectively. I think this is something of a myth.


































Even when squared up I've rarely seen a substantial difference in stance out of which using conventional boxing technique would be undoable.


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Nothing of what I've said has to do with how effective a top boxer would be if he crossed over into MMA. (Though the mixed results suggest the transition is much easier that way than an MMA fighter would have coming into boxing). The boxing that is used in MMA is still of a below average standard and that's why I don't prefer it. I'm not stopping anyone from enjoying MMA or the UFC.


All I'm saying - Boxing is only one part of MMA, it's nonsense to be watching/judging MMA for the boxing skill only. Boxing cannot be properly fleshed out under MMA rules without giving away too much to your opposition. Simple as that. If you ever want to enjoy the sport of Mixed Martial Arts, start to learn the details of Jiu Jitsu, Judo, Wrestling, Kick Boxing, Karate as well then you can make judgmental critical points and statements while not appearing a complete noob and one eyed spectator.

The sport is evolving at a crazy fast rate as well, which is amazing to witness from it's humble beginnings. We may see boxing implemented better in the future but for now it's not the most important part of mixed martial arts.


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Haggis said:


> That's true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These fantasy scenarios don't work in reality. You're assuming the wrestler has Mayweather type defense


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I've seen many bouts where the MMA fighter is indeed standing side-on like a boxing stance and they were still able to sprawl effectively. I think this is something of a myth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because most people don't know what the fuck they're talking about. I was a state alternate on the wrestling team, I've also won GG in San Antonio (novice) and Texas games (novice).


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> All I'm saying - Boxing is only one part of MMA, it's nonsense to be watching/judging MMA for the boxing skill only. Boxing cannot be properly fleshed out under MMA rules without giving away too much to your opposition. Simple as that. If you ever want to enjoy the sport of Mixed Martial Arts, start to learn the details of Jiu Jitsu, Judo, Wrestling, Kick Boxing, Karate as well then you can make judgmental critical points and statements while not appearing a complete noob and one eyed spectator.
> 
> The sport is evolving at a crazy fast rate as well, which is amazing to witness from it's humble beginnings. We may see boxing implemented better in the future but for now it's not the most important part of mixed martial arts.


There's nothing noobish or one-eyed at looking at MMA and being turned off by their low level of boxing. You keep implying that I'm somehow disrespecting the sport by saying that I don't prefer it due to the fact the punching offensive and defensive technique is FAR below that of boxing. I'm not. I can appreciate when someone employs an interesting grappling technique or an effective kick etc. It just doesn't compensate for me. And from what I've seen boxing is a critical component of MMA even if wrestling or BJJ is considered more essential, since most bouts I see end up looking like slow-paced boxing matches plus a few kicks with a few takedowns that don't result in anything. The biggest star in the UFC has the best hands and he'd get beaten by Van Heerden in a boxing match :conf Though I agree the boxing has been improving a lot. I've noticed that.

I don't _have_ to love it. Neither do all boxing fans. They offer different things. Go enjoy it, nobody's stopping you.


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## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> There's nothing noobish or one-eyed at looking at MMA and being turned off by their low level of boxing.


Why do you watch a mixed martial arts match and look for a boxing match?



Bogotazo said:


> You keep implying that I'm somehow disrespecting the sport by saying that I don't prefer it due to the fact the punching offensive and defensive technique is FAR below that of boxing. I'm not.


No, we say you disrespect the sport because every time you watch a card, you come on here and whine about how the striking "hurts your eyes" and most fights "look like slow-paced boxing matches" and how whoever wins seems random to you. (No, that's just what happens when fights are booked competitively rather than being 95% squash matches.) You can say "I appreciate this or that" all you want - but all you ever seem to do is whine about how it's not boxing. You just come off as a snobby cunt and a one-eyed hater.



Bogotazo said:


> The biggest star in the UFC has the best hands and he'd get beaten by Van Heerden in a boxing match :conf Though I agree the boxing has been improving a lot. I've noticed that.


McGregor doesn't have the best hands in the UFC. He's in the discussion for sure, but Joanna has better technique and Rumble has more frightening power.

Anyhoo, right at this moment in time, the UFC's biggest star is a striker. Two years ago, it was a judoka with no striking at all. Two years before that, an all-rounder with a wrestling base. Two years before that, a D1 national champion wrestler. Swings and roundabouts. Different aspects gain more and less prominence. Wasn't so long ago that power wrestlers dominated, now strikers are coming back. Maybe boxing's importance in the cage will rise in the future. :conf

:hat


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## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

paloalto00 said:


> These fantasy scenarios don't work in reality. You're assuming the wrestler has Mayweather type defense


He doesn't have to have Mayweather defence. Can Tyson defend an ankle pick? Is he prepared to deal with an Imanari roll?

:hat


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


>


This guy is an elite-level kickboxer who uses his kicks to maintain distance and keep wrestlers out of grappling range. His stance is nothing like a boxer's, and if you watched him fight live you'd cry about his hands being so low and his feet being so far apart.



Bogotazo said:


>


This is actually the HW division's most effective boxer getting fucked up by a relentless power wrestler with competent striking. JDS barely throws any kicks, uses his wrestling only defensively, and isn't interested in fighting on the ground. He likes to throw fists, and he had a lot of success with it. Until he ran into a guy who kept coming forward and threatening with *both *strikes *and *takedowns. JDS laid Cain out with one punch their first meeting, and then took two of the most horrific beatings you'll ever see in a sanctioned contest. Why? Because Cain was far more well-rounded and mixed his attacks up far better.

:hat


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Haggis said:


> He doesn't have to have Mayweather defence. Can Tyson defend an ankle pick? Is he prepared to deal with an Imanari roll?
> 
> :hat


And I assume they're prepared to defend what Tyson is bringing?


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Haggis said:


> This guy is an elite-level kickboxer who uses his kicks to maintain distance and keep wrestlers out of grappling range. His stance is nothing like a boxer's, and if you watched him fight live you'd cry about his hands being so low and his feet being so far apart.
> 
> This is actually the HW division's most effective boxer getting fucked up by a relentless power wrestler with competent striking. JDS barely throws any kicks, uses his wrestling only defensively, and isn't interested in fighting on the ground. He likes to throw fists, and he had a lot of success with it. Until he ran into a guy who kept coming forward and threatening with *both *strikes *and *takedowns. JDS laid Cain out with one punch their first meeting, and then took two of the most horrific beatings you'll ever see in a sanctioned contest. Why? Because Cain was far more well-rounded and mixed his attacks up far better.
> 
> :hat


Go ahead and explain how that worked out for Aldo vs Conor. This shit only works out on paper, you're not going to magically get a takedown. I agree that it depends on the fighter, but if you can't defend yourself on your feet..then it's going to be a short night


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> You keep implying that I'm somehow disrespecting the sport by saying that I don't prefer it due to the fact the punching offensive and defensive technique is FAR below that of boxing. I.


because youre looking at something more complex than your one eyed boxing brain can appreciate. surely you can see my point


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> because youre looking at something more complex than your one eyed boxing brain can appreciate. surely you can see my point


I've seen enough of MMA to appreciate non-boxing aspects of combat, which I've already stated. You're basically saying that if you don't like MMA it's only because you don't understand it, which is a dogmatic and elitist viewpoint. "If only you understood it, you'd like it. You don't like it, therefore you must not understand it."


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Bogotazo, take the Boxing goggles off. Muay Thai, Kickboxing, and Boxing die hards all say the same shit about striking in MMA.


----------



## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

I'm not too big on UFC but it definitely is better for the fans than boxing as far as fights we want to see getting made. They don't seem to be able to tip toe around one guy for years like you can in boxing


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

Haggis said:


> That's true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


doubt tyson would be put on the defensive by romero's boxing though


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> Bogotazo, take the Boxing goggles off. Muay Thai, Kickboxing, and Boxing die hards all say the same shit about striking in MMA.


It's impossible for me to "take the boxing goggles off" and magically think that exchanges like this


































indicate expertise or even proficiency.

I can check it out once in a while but I just can't fall in love with a sport that falls very short on showing me what I love best about fighting.


----------



## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

Can someone ask/tell him:



Bogotazo said:


>


Horrific punching form for sure.

Who the fuck are these guys, and what are the chances that red and black shorts is a lifelong wrestler?



Bogotazo said:


>


Anderson Silva is 40 in that fight, trying to do his Matrix/Roy Jones shit that he was brilliant at for years, only to find out that he's old now. And what exactly is wrong with Bisping's punching technique there? He's throwing pretty good in the pocket - he tags Anderson 3x and shows good reach knowledge.



Bogotazo said:


>


Are we claiming that Jose Aldo can't strike now? :lol:



Bogotazo said:


>


Duffee's lack of punching technique is a running joke among MMA fans. He gets by on enormous first-round power and explosive speed. He's never gotten close to sniffing a title shot - he's a "KO or get KOed" action fighter. And again - what is wrong with Mir's counter that just about decapitates him? Shouldn't that _please _you - that Duffee's terrible form was immediately punished by a left hook that would have dropped a horse? :huh

But if we're trading gif for gif - the HW champion of the world, everybody. Nothing to do his whole career except train how to punch, comes up with this:










I actually watched the Wlad-Fury fight. Yep - what a technical masterclass that one was. Nothing sloppy as fuck about that fight _at all_. :lol:

:hat


----------



## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

Haggis said:


> Can someone ask/tell him:
> 
> Horrific punching form for sure.
> 
> ...


chris "he (anderson silva) may want to go back to japan where the competitions a little easier" leben


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

Bogotazo said:


> It's impossible for me to "take the boxing goggles off" and magically think that exchanges like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

nuclear said:


> __
> Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
> Show Content


OK that one is comical for sure. :rofl Had the crowd and Rogan laughing as well, IIRC. :good

:hat


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## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

:hat


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Haggis said:


> Can someone ask/tell him:
> 
> Horrific punching form for sure.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty damn sure the one in red and black is Chris Leben. Supposedly, the dude started out boxing and transitioned to wrestling or something. I've been watching MMGay before it became all trendy and shit.


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## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> I'm pretty damn sure the one in red and black is Chris Leben. Supposedly, the dude started out boxing and transitioned to wrestling or something. I've been watching MMGay before it became all trendy and shit.


I thought it looked like Leben, but didn't recognize the fight. :conf He wasn't usually THAT crude, until he got hurt and went into zombie mode. :lol:

Can't really haul him out to shit on MMA in 2016 anyway. He's from the dark ages of the sport, when you could get by with being just a wrestler and nothing else, or just a tough-guy brawler with an iron chin and heavy hands. There are no contenders who look like that anymore. :good

And I'm pretty sure that Leben started out with whiskey and transitioned into meth. :yep

:hat


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Haggis said:


> I thought it looked like Leben, but didn't recognize the fight. :conf He wasn't usually THAT crude, until he got hurt and went into zombie mode. :lol:
> 
> Can't really haul him out to shit on MMA in 2016 anyway. He's from the dark ages of the sport, when you could get by with being just a wrestler and nothing else, or just a tough-guy brawler with an iron chin and heavy hands. There are no contenders who look like that anymore. :good
> 
> ...


I know a lot of dudes from those times, but I barely know any of the new guys. I stopped watching shortly after the era of Chuck "beer belly" Liddell and Tim "shits his pants" Sylvia.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)




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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Haggis said:


> Can someone ask/tell him:
> 
> Horrific punching form for sure.
> 
> ...


Haggis you had me until the Fury stuff, it's fairly common to clock yourself with an uppercut at some point and that fight wasn't sloppy as fuck, it wasn't a great example of exchanging combos but the feints and footwork from Fury were very good and those are often the things that separate novice boxers from those with a bit about them, for example those are the nuances that MMA strikers just don't have time to pick up.


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

We still didn´t see a top notch boxer going into MMA like we did with wrestlers, jiu-jitsu and even some kickboxers...


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Vic said:


> We still didn´t see a top notch boxer going into MMA like we did with wrestlers, jiu-jitsu and even some kickboxers...


Your avatar makes me wanna choke slam puppies.

I hope Jofre rips your arms off, inserts Garrincha's legs' wooden replica and sends you to San Marino, so that the real (only) Ronaldo could senna you off a cliff.

It's because of sell outs like you Brazil's best futebol player is Hormone Hobbit's ball boy.

You are forbidden to watch boxing from now on.

Only Johnstown's sparring videos.

Until you die and reborn as Cotto's eyebrows.


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Your avatar makes me wanna choke slam puppies.
> 
> I hope Jofre rips your arms off, inserts Garrincha's legs' wooden replica and sends you to San Marino, so that the real (only) Ronaldo could senna you off a cliff.
> 
> ...


:lol:

How about this now though ?


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## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

I always thought that in order to understand fighting, you had to study all aspects of it.

Boxing is my greatest sporting love. I also sit up to watch UFC cards. I watch all countdown shows, embedded, the same as I watch all 24/7s and fight camp 360s.

Different sports, both full of great athletes who deserve nothing but respect.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Vic said:


> How about this now though ?


You can't trust a guy who says he's Brazilian but looks like Matthysse's folk-singing brother.

Sadistically desecrate Maradona's church by vomitting blasphemies upon his altar in the name of Roberto Dinamite.

Then we'll talk.


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## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


>


:lol::lol::lol: WOW


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> You can't trust a guy who says he's Brazilian but looks like Matthysse's folk-singing brother.
> 
> Sadistically desecrate Maradona's church by vomitting blasphemies upon his altar in the name of Roberto Dinamite.
> 
> Then we'll talk.


I look like Matthysse´s folk singing brother ?LOL that´s a good one, you crack me up Lester. I have a new signature...


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## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

GlassJaw said:


> :lol::lol::lol: WOW


That one is ridiculous for sure. :lol:

Look at the clock though. It's the end of the fight, they are two no-name guys buried deep on the undercard, both gassed and in a neutral position. Nobody is going to win before time runs out, so they come to some kind of unspoken mutual agreement to just start flailing away at each other with no hope of hurting each other. It's hardly representative of MMA striking any more than a GIF of a boxer punching himself in the face is representative of boxing punching. :good

:hat


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## Haggis (May 16, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Haggis you had me until the Fury stuff, it's fairly common to clock yourself with an uppercut at some point and that fight wasn't sloppy as fuck, it wasn't a great example of exchanging combos but the feints and footwork from Fury were very good and those are often the things that separate novice boxers from those with a bit about them, for example those are the nuances that MMA strikers just don't have time to pick up.


It's fair enough.

I find it ridiculous when boxing snobs like Bogo constantly shit on MMA and give it no respect at all. Especially when there is a LOT of high-quality striking on display at the top level, and when boxing techniques just plain don't work in a mixed martial arts ruleset. Nobody is ever going to look like a pure boxer and operate with success at a high level in MMA, boxing is just plain too constricted by its ruleset. Kickboxing is far better because of the skills it confers in managing distance. But the plain truth is that if you show up to a fight that includes kicks and all you're bringing is punches, then any half-decent kicker is going to eat you alive because he'll kick the living shit out of you from a distance that you can't answer him from. So boxing fans are NEVER going to see high-level boxing in MMA, because MMA is all about what works and boxing is no better than judo or straight wrestling or any other one-dimensional combat sport skillset.

The other annoying thing is when boxing snobs pretend like every boxing match is a thing of beauty. It's not. There are PLENTY of low-action, boring fights with sloppy technique. Wlad and Fury basically stood and stared at each other for 12 rounds, with some hugging thrown in. Both of them landed less than a quarter of their punches, and between them they combined to land 138 punches in 36 minutes of fighting. Less than 4 punches per minute, between _both_ of them. Wlad landed a little bit more than 4 punches per round. That's a boring fight, not a technical masterclass. :conf

:hat


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

The moment UFC took over:


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> The moment UFC took over:


:lol:


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Vic said:


> We still didn´t see a top notch boxer going into MMA like we did with wrestlers, jiu-jitsu and even some kickboxers...


Thats a fact. For all the talk of superior techique in boxing, They do not and would not survive on their own in mma so its clearly not necessary to train as good as Roman Gonzalez in the cage. This debate has been done to death. Ad infinitum no one wins.

I will say though, boxing fans have to move the goal posts to get anywhere in a debate. They have to cite the marquess of Queensbury rules and MMA fans only have cite REAL fighting.


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Thats a fact. For all the talk of superior techique in boxing, They do not and would not survive on their own in mma so its clearly not necessary to train as good as Roman Gonzalez in the cage. This debate has been done to death. Ad infinitum no one wins.
> 
> I will say though, boxing fans have to move the goal posts to get anywhere in a debate. They have to cite the marquess of Queensbury rules and MMA fans only have cite REAL fighting.


How is it a fact of he hasn't been done? The striking is piss poor and those who do come from a kickboxing background do fairly well at getting back to their feet


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)




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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

The large growth from it too is that you don't have to be punched in the face to be considered a good "fighter". I see more people doing mms fights but refuse to get into a boxing ring


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## CASH_718 (Jan 24, 2016)

> Boxing is better than the UFC/MMA. The only people who think otherwise don't watch boxing and are casually UFC fans because UFC is the "cool" thing to watch with their ffliction shirts on. UFC had a great run but now it had been bought out and is completely commercial while boxing has the best fighting the best and in spite of human cum dumpsters like Steven A Smith, Shannon Sharpe and Teddy Atlas being "shock jock" sports personalities who just try to say something to go viral, the facts speak for themselves.
> 
> Manny Pacquiao fought on ESPN on Saturday night vs a complete nobodyvand drew in 4.4 million viewers!!! And in spite of Teddy Atlas trying to makevtge entire event about him and drying that the fight was a robberry( how was he watching the fight and judging it while screaming for 36 minutes straight) and then Steven A Smith who didn't even know the names of former world champions on Horn's, he thought his opinion mattered enough to repeat everything Atlas said and ev3n went so far as to say "this is why UFC is better" as if there has never bee a bad decision in the UFC or MMA.
> 
> ...


And I posted about 30 highlights of separate fights from the last two years.


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## OneTime (Nov 10, 2014)

Cool


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

CASH_718 said:


> And I posted about 30 highlights of separate fights from the last two years.


You sad virgin, get a life asap


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## CASH_718 (Jan 24, 2016)

A.C.S said:


> You sad virgin, get a life asap


Find out what pussy tastes like, you worthless waste of air. Ignore list you go, blow job fan boy.

Try saying one intelligent thing in your life youn27 year fourfold sexually frustrated virgin that has nothing better to do that insult kids below to age if 10 because you are having and argument with their father on an internet forum. If you acted like that in the real world, you'd have to teeth. Have a shitty life, bye.


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## CASH_718 (Jan 24, 2016)

And like everyone in ACS' real life, he's ignored on the internet too. Truly pathetic.

All of a sudden writing an intellegent essay about a sport you care about, trying to inform others and bring others to the sport doesn't make you smart and doing something productive.... its get you called a virgin and that you need a life..... by an admitted virgin with no life. See tue problem with the world today? Enjoy your shitty, misinformed, pussyless life, pal. Stick to two sentence hate filled, fact deprived posts.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

I hope you link Bazooka - Chacon IV and some UFC fan goes TLDW


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## CASH_718 (Jan 24, 2016)

dyna said:


> I hope you link Bazooka - Chacon IV and some UFC fan goes TLDW


No, just highlights of fightnfrom the past two years. I was talking about the current state of Ufc and boxing, with boxing stepping up there game bug time and the UFC seems to be stagnant.


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## CASH_718 (Jan 24, 2016)

For what reason is this put in the Maybe Conor subforum? Go job Bozotazo. It's a convo about the current state of boxing as compared to ufc. This forum sucks seriously. What a joke and the mods are useless cunt.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

CASH_718 said:


> Find out what pussy tastes like, you worthless waste of air. Ignore list you go, blow job fan boy.
> 
> Try saying one intelligent thing in your life youn27 year fourfold sexually frustrated virgin that has nothing better to do that insult kids below to age if 10 because you are having and argument with their father on an internet forum. If you acted like that in the real world, you'd have to teeth. Have a shitty life, bye.


Ignore lol what a pussy, who rants on facebook about boxing and ufc lol that means you just have a bunch of guys on there, weirdo.


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

its kinda funny to think that boxing actually has the best win in boxing vs mma fights.

when far past prime ray mercer knocked out tim sylvia, tim was actually ranked in the top 10

nitpicking but yeah.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Boxing









UFC


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Boxing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That shit was beyond suspect


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

nuclear said:


> its kinda funny to think that boxing actually has the best win in boxing vs mma fights.
> 
> when far past prime ray mercer knocked out tim sylvia, tim was actually ranked in the top 10
> 
> nitpicking but yeah.


Let´s only remember that that´s the same Ray Mercer who was submitted by fucking Kimbo Slice, a known bum in the MMA world (even though a real nice guy RIP Kimbo).

I have a better ground game than Kimbo had (not kidding at all), I honestly believe I could choke Ray Mercer.


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Vic said:


> Let´s only remember that that´s the same Ray Mercer who was submitted by fucking Kimbo Slice, a known bum in the MMA world (even though a real nice guy RIP Kimbo).
> 
> I have a better ground game than Kimbo had (not kidding at all), I honestly believe I could choke Ray Mercer.


I have a better ground game than Floyd, I still wouldn't take my chances with him on the street


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## TimboSlice (Feb 17, 2018)

There's a bizarre black/white disparity for fighting I've noticed in America. White guys are drawn to UFC/MMA and black guys more to boxing. In MMA you've got Dillashaw, Rockhold, Miocic, Garbrandt, Cerrone, Thompson, Ferguson, Lawler. These come off the back of Couture, Liddell, Carwin, Schaub, Sonnen, Coleman, Shamrock, Hughes.

All are just off the top of my head as a casual MMA guy. Where's America's great white hope in boxing, in any class? I don't know the demographics well but I'm willing to bet it draws a much more middle class, affluent, "bro" audience than boxing does, and I don't understand why.


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

TimboSlice said:


> There's a bizarre black/white disparity for fighting I've noticed in America. White guys are drawn to UFC/MMA and black guys more to boxing. In MMA you've got Dillashaw, Rockhold, Miocic, Garbrandt, Cerrone, Thompson, Ferguson, Lawler. These come off the back of Couture, Liddell, Carwin, Schaub, Sonnen, Coleman, Shamrock, Hughes.
> 
> All are just off the top of my head as a casual MMA guy. Where's America's great white hope in boxing, in any class? I don't know the demographics well but I'm willing to bet it draws a much more middle class, affluent, "bro" audience than boxing does, and I don't understand why.


It has to deal with the cage, board shorts, and gloves. It has a cool factor to it, Pride was much more extreme but with less popularity. Knockouts of course are more common


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

Vic said:


> Let´s only remember that that´s the same Ray Mercer who was submitted by fucking Kimbo Slice, a known bum in the MMA world (even though a real nice guy RIP Kimbo).
> 
> I have a better ground game than Kimbo had (not kidding at all), I honestly believe I could choke Ray Mercer.





paloalto00 said:


> I have a better ground game than Floyd, I still wouldn't take my chances with him on the street


thing is, ray mercer was in his mid or late 40s when they fought. no business beating a top 10 mma hw


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

nuclear said:


> thing is, ray mercer was in his mid or late 40s when they fought. no business beating a top 10 mma hw


People don't realize that MMA is sport, those gloves do have similar padding as a 10 oz boxing glove, and the pacing makes a huge difference. One shot is all it takes with a bare knuckle


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## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

I think UFC is in the same boat as boxing now. No huge stars for big PPV numbers. Their biggest start just made like 10 times his highest purse by fighting in boxing and now doesn't seem to want to fight. Dana is even trying to promote boxing now.


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## superman1692 (Jun 3, 2013)

TimboSlice said:


> There's a bizarre black/white disparity for fighting I've noticed in America. White guys are drawn to UFC/MMA and black guys more to boxing. In MMA you've got Dillashaw, Rockhold, Miocic, Garbrandt, Cerrone, Thompson, Ferguson, Lawler. These come off the back of Couture, Liddell, Carwin, Schaub, Sonnen, Coleman, Shamrock, Hughes.
> 
> All are just off the top of my head as a casual MMA guy. Where's America's great white hope in boxing, in any class? I don't know the demographics well but I'm willing to bet it draws a much more middle class, affluent, "bro" audience than boxing does, and I don't understand why.


White Americans just ain't as good as their European counterparts, and they've also become sissies the more wealthier they got over time. And they prefer to shoot guns instead of learning how to actually fight.

That's why all the white fighters you see in boxing now, are from Europe.


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/972757477472157696


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## Lampley (Jun 4, 2013)

UFC definitely has the bro thing going in the way it markets itself, and it also has a bit of a skinhead component. I struggled connecting with the really dedicated fanbase. Joe Rogan is the ultimate bro. 

But the monopoly control and absence of a free agent system hurts that sport. UFC needs a competitor.


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## boranbkk (Jun 7, 2012)

:sad


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## church11 (Jun 6, 2013)

boranbkk said:


> :sad


If he goes through with it it's going to be a tough night for me as a Floyd fan


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## boranbkk (Jun 7, 2012)

church11 said:


> If he goes through with it it's going to be a tough night for me as a Floyd fan


It'll a tough night for Floyd. I'm not buying it, it's just floyd fluff I think.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

boranbkk said:


> :sad


Oh my freaking gawd. What.


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## boranbkk (Jun 7, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Oh my freaking gawd. What.


I know it's nuts isn't it!

TBH I think it's fluff, but even if he really is thinking about it in a serious way I think once he starts training and seeing that you just can't pick up even some of the most basic techniques to be effective in a few months or years...he'll bin the idea but he'll still play along. There will be loads of images of him training MT, BJJ etc but very little video particularly of him kicking cos it'll get torn apart.

He knows this...it'll be hype another way of staying in the media and maybe building up to something....dare I say it a Conner rematch?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

boranbkk said:


> I know it's nuts isn't it!
> 
> TBH I think it's fluff, but even if he really is thinking about it in a serious way I think once he starts training and seeing that you just can't pick up even some of the most basic techniques to be effective in a few months or years...he'll bin the idea but he'll still play along. There will be loads of images of him training MT, BJJ etc but very little video particularly of him kicking cos it'll get torn apart.
> 
> He knows this...it'll be hype another way of staying in the media and maybe building up to something....dare I say it a Conner rematch?


I think his intention is to fight a bum and see how far he can take it but at any moment he could bow out, I wouldn't be surprised if he picks up injuries either. Unless his troll game has elevated a thousand percent he looks serious enough. My only problem is he's old. But there's no denying money, limelight, attention, and the excitement tempt him.


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## church11 (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I think his intention is to fight a bum and see how far he can take it but at any moment he could bow out, I wouldn't be surprised if he picks up injuries either. Unless his troll game has elevated a thousand percent he looks serious enough. My only problem is he's old. But there's no denying money, limelight, attention, and the excitement tempt him.


if he was a prime floyd...not even in the boxing sense but just in the young athlete sense...i'd have a least a shred of belief that he could pull this off or at least make it interesting. but at his age, and his compromised hands (his only weapon in MMA really), i just can't see a path to victory. tyron will help him gain MINIMAL skills/awareness for wrestling/take-down defence, but c'mon...i see no point to this other than money...and if that's the case, he should make it Conor in order to maximize the profit.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

church11 said:


> if he was a prime floyd...not even in the boxing sense but just in the young athlete sense...i'd have a least a shred of belief that he could pull this off or at least make it interesting. but at his age, and his compromised hands (his only weapon in MMA really), i just can't see a path to victory. tyron will help him gain MINIMAL skills/awareness for wrestling/take-down defence, but c'mon...i see no point to this other than money...and if that's the case, he should make it Conor in order to maximize the profit.


It would take a year. Depends on the opponent I guess though. A guy who can't wrestle and had a losing record or something is feasible. Beyond that, what Floyd gains in experience he starts losing in youth. He's in his freaking 40's.


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## boranbkk (Jun 7, 2012)

You guys think if he kept the hype going tethered is an ultimate plan or a rematch with Conner in the boxing ring? Is that the plan? 

Lots of people since that fight have been saying how Conner was more competitive than most people thought he’d be, whether you believe it or not. By training MMA for a while maybe a vehicle to it...who knows Floyd a master at this stuff. Floyd understands fighting and he knows he will not be effective in MMA.


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/974591740505096193
biggest promotion in the world.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Boxing is making the comeback! UFC has no stars right now


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## pipe wrenched (Jun 4, 2013)

nuclear said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/974591740505096193
> biggest promotion in the world.


Man I can't stand UFC, boxing junkie to the core....but that is some serious bull shit to do to anybody right there.

Do they not have a back up fighter like boxing I guess? That's dumb as shit..


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

pipe wrenched said:


> Man I can't stand UFC, boxing junkie to the core....but that is some serious bull shit to do to anybody right there.
> 
> *Do they not have a back up fighter like boxing I guess? * That's dumb as shit..


Povetkin fails test but still gets a last minute Duhaupas.
Boxing truly is different.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

nuclear said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/974591740505096193
> biggest promotion in the world.


When you think they are able to sell out o2 arena with mostly minnows and then broadcast it across the world. How would they be able to justify leaving fighters out on their own like that. It seems incredibly unprofessional for a promotion that demands the utmost peofessionalism from its 'employees'***

Fair enough if its some fat untrained laird in a backarse promotion in a pubs function centre. But you would imagine drink and t shirt sales alone would cover a good portion of these shitty purses.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Some cool graphics here:

https://sports.bwin.com/en/news/infographics/ufc-vs-boxing-graphic

Can anyone find/make a PPV comparison for 2017?


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

I don't mind UFC being more popular, the fan base is rather annoying and I don't want them seeping into the boxing scene.


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## Batkilt (Jun 6, 2012)

pipe wrenched said:


> Man I can't stand UFC, boxing junkie to the core....but that is some serious bull shit to do to anybody right there.
> 
> Do they not have a back up fighter like boxing I guess? That's dumb as shit..


They used to pay fighters when they weren't at fault for a fight falling through. Hell, on occasion they paid the fighter who did cause it to fall through, depending on the circumstances. They gradually shifted away from that in the latter years of Zuffa, and now if your fight is cancelled you don't get paid.


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## mike_bngs (Jun 4, 2013)

paloalto00 said:


> I don't mind UFC being more popular, the fan base is rather annoying and I don't want them seeping into the boxing scene.


Yeah but if they do it will be due to interest, the mongs I know that love mma like it cos it's just violence. My fb was crawling with complaints about AJ vs Parker as no one was left unconscious.


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## Batkilt (Jun 6, 2012)

mike_bngs said:


> Yeah but if they do it will be due to interest, the mongs I know that love mma like it cos it's just violence. My fb was crawling with complaints about AJ vs Parker as no one was left unconscious.


Essentially why casual MMA fans don't like Demetrius Johnson; he's perceived as being boring - even if his fights aren't - and "a midget." Conversely, GSP was a PPV star, despite the lack of violent finishes, as he's charismatic.


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