# Your favo(u)rite fighter(s) Top 5 Wins



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Roberto Duran

Sugar Ray Leonard (27-0)
Ken Buchanan (43-1)
Ernesto Marcel (24-2)
Carlos Palomino (27-2)
Esteban DeJesus III (52-2)*

* Not including previous defeat to Duran which you can argue (quite rightly) was actually a better version of DeJesus but I'll take the dominant rubber match unification bout. Should Barkley be here considering all circumstances? Probably. :think Marcel is incredibly underrated; went on to be Feather champ, retired after win over Alexis Arguello.

Pernell Whitaker

Julio Cesar Chavez (87-0) (#1 P4P)
Azumah Nelson (32-1) (#6 P4P)
Buddy McGirt I (59-2) (#4 P4P)
Buddy McGirt II (64-2)*
Julio Cesar Vasquez (53-1) (#1 LMW)

Arguable: Oscar De La Hoya (23-0) (#2 P4P)

* Same deal as above. I find Chavez inarguable obviously, much as I love JCC as well (Post #287 ). De La Hoya very arguable :yep @turbotime Could strongly argue both McGirt and Vasquez being better than The Professor for the W8 in both directions but again, too dominant, Nelson is an ATG and had only lost to Salvador fuckin Sanchez in a WAR with a dozen fights or so under his belt, Mario Martinez notwithstanding.

Ray Leonard

Thomas Hearns (32-0)
Marvin Hagler (62-2-2)
Wilfred Benitez (38-0-1)
Roberto Duran (72-1)
Ayub Kalule (36-0)

That ain't right. Hearns, Hagler, Duran were all pretty much #1 P4P at the time of the fights looking back at some of the polls conducted at the time. Benitez was no less than Top 5 and about as great as he'd ever be but of course any spastic can look at a Hitman or El Radar and recognize the threats they presented; Kalule's ability was exceptional and was the legit at 154 lbs.


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## JohnAnthony (Jun 6, 2013)

Manny Pac

1) Cotto
2) Morales
3) Barrera
4) Hatton
5) Margo/Oscar tied (I had horrible feelings in both that manny would get brutally ko'd in both of these.)


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## josip (Jun 4, 2013)

rahman:
lewis
sanders
purity
Meehan
barrett


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## JohnAnthony (Jun 6, 2013)

josip said:


> rahman:
> lewis
> sanders
> purity
> ...


Why is Rahman your favorite fighter?


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

Nigel Benn - 

1. G-Man
2. Barkley
3. Galvano
4. DeWitt
5. Wharton



Ricky Hatton

1. Tszyu
2. Castillo
3. Oliveira
4. Malignagni
5. Urango


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Delete


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## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

Ezzard Charles:

Archie Moore x3 (79-11-5 first time around)
Charley Burley x2 (51-5-1)
Jimmy Bivins 4-1 with each other!
Lloyd Marshall 2-1 
Joe Louis 58-1

That doesn't include Jersey Joe Walcott, Joey Maxim, Gus Lesnevich, teddy Yarosz


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## josip (Jun 4, 2013)

JohnAnthony said:


> Why is Rahman your favorite fighter?


unlike most heavyweights today he was exciting to watch.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Vano-irons said:


> Ezzard Charles:
> 
> Archie Moore x3 (79-11-5 first time around)
> Charley Burley x2 (51-5-1)
> ...


So FILTHY.

What would you switch up on Duran's at the top? I don't consider myself an authority and these things can be HOTLY debatable. I did shout Barkley and DeJesus II for that reason and many would pick both of those.


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## Archer (May 26, 2013)

Tim Bradley

1. Pacquiao (I know)
2. Marquez
3. Witter
4. Alexander
5. Peterson

Fernando Vargas

1. Quartey
2. Wright
3. Campas
4. Marquez
5. Castilljelo


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Outrage @Hands of Iron 
It's all about Guts, he has a case for GOAT.

*Prince Naseem Hamed*
W Kelley
W Bungu
W McCullough
W Vasquez
W Johnson

*Vasyl Lomachenko*
W Selimovx2 (135lber, maybe 140lb)
W Berinchyk (the 140lber)
W Valentinox2 (135lber)
W Toledox2 (140lber)
W Vodpyanovx3 (126lber)
- That's _probably_ my list from the top of my head, in terms of 'names', although the silver medalist at the olympics who lost to Vasyl are Soon-Chul and Djelkhir.

*Erik Morales*
Pacquiao 1 
Barrera 2
Jones 
Ayala 
Zaragoza

*Oscar De La Hoya*
W Mosley 2
W Trinidad 
W Whitaker
W Genaro
W Quartey


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## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

Salvador Sanchez

1. Wilfredo Gomez 
2. Danny Lopez (solid champ with multiple defenses, included in the ring's top 25 greatest punchers of all time)
3. Azumah Nelson (was green, but it's Nelson nevertheless)
4. Danny Lopez II 
5. Either Juan Laporte who would go on to be champion, or tough multiple time title challenger Ruben Castillo (was like 47-1 when Sanchez fought him)


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Rocky Marciano (49-0)

1. Jersey Joe Walcott I & II (51-16-2)
2. Ezzard Charles I & II (83-10-1)
3. Archie Moore (148-19-8)
4. Joe Louis (66-2)
5. Roland Lastarza (53-3)

HM: Rex Layne (34-1-2)


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Who's doing the honors for Floyd? @bballchump11 @MichiganWarrior @~Cellzki~ I want to see where we differ
> 
> Gennady Golovkin @Oneshot
> 
> ...


Seriously commend you for remembering all these posters favourite fighters :clap:


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## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Who's doing the honors for Floyd? @bballchump11 @MichiganWarrior @~Cellzki~ I want to see where we differ
> 
> Gennady Golovkin @Oneshot
> 
> ...


I really believe Monzon's best victory was vs Bennie Briscoe in 1972. He boxed fluidly for 15 rounds, threw every punch in the book while on the back foot, and proved that he had an anvil of a chin in surviving Briscoe's dynamite right hand in the 10th....after which he proved greatness by standing and trading with Bad Bennie for the last 5 rounds...sealing an impressive victory by refusing to play it safe...and hurting BB in the 14th and 15th. (runner up to this was Valdez ll)


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Seriously commend you for remembering all these posters favourite fighters :clap:


I'm honestly more concerned that I know that but I've been reading your guys shit for years now. :lol:



Phantom said:


> I really believe Monzon's best victory was vs Bennie Briscoe in 1972. He boxed fluidly for 15 rounds, threw every punch in the book while on the back foot, and proved that he had an anvil of a chin in surviving Briscoe's dynamite right hand in the 10th....after which he proved greatness by standing and trading with Bad Bennie for the last 5 rounds...sealing an impressive victory by refusing to play it safe...and hurting BB in the 14th and 15th. (runner up to this was Valdez ll)


Thanks for the contribution. :good I couldn't believe he survived that shot :rofl


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

@Phantom I think Monzon gets underrated on Great Chin lists personally considering the absolute bangers he was in against as well as having a career that spanned 100 bouts and 0 stoppage losses. Once he got rolling, he didn't know how to lose.


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## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> So FILTHY.
> 
> What would you switch up on Duran's at the top? I don't consider myself an authority and these things can be HOTLY debatable. I did shout Barkley and DeJesus II for that reason and many would pick both of those.


I'd probably go for DeJesus II over III, and maybe ex Super feather champ Hiroshi Kobayashi over Palomino but i won't argue too much either way


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Vano-irons said:


> I'd probably go for DeJesus II over III, and maybe ex Super feather champ Hiroshi Kobayashi over Palomino but i won't argue too much either way


A lot of quality to choose from in his top ten.

I ultimately picked Palomino because he was so absurdly dominant over him in what was his 147 coming out party against a HOF Champion who had a multi year reign and only just lost it to a surging Wilfred Benitez on a decision in PR.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

I'm gonna go with these for McCallum;











Here's why he gets called The Body Snatcher,even though he was so much more.











And purely because Kalambay's masterclass in the first fight was painful for me;


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> I'm gonna go with these for McCallum;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No Mike Watson ? Maccallum was phenomal that night


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## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

Lol David Haye isn't my favourite fighter I'm afraid! Not by a long shot.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Stone Rose said:


> No Mike Watson ? Maccallum was phenomal that night


He was mate,but I deliberately left it out as it's impossible to enjoy nowadays.It would trump at least two if not more of these performances.
Ya get me?


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> He was mate,but I deliberately left it out as it's impossible to enjoy nowadays.It would trump at least two if not more of these performances.
> Ya get me?


Yeah it was a brutal fight, broke my heart as a young un.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Stone Rose said:


> No Mike Watson ? Maccallum was phenomal that night


Feel free to list them for whoever. Over half the people I just mentioned probably won't even post in this thread. :lol: :conf I just have a bit of familiarity on who they've been trumpeting for a long time.


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## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> @Phantom I think Monzon gets underrated on Great Chin lists personally considering the absolute bangers he was in against as well as having a career that spanned 100 bouts and 0 stoppage losses. Once he got rolling, he didn't know how to lose.


Yeah, his record speaks for itself...*100 fights*..never stopped, and only down 4 times. He fought thinking that he was unbeatable...and he was.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

shaunster101 said:


> Lol David Haye isn't my favourite fighter I'm afraid! Not by a long shot.


There were more than a couple of those intentionally put in there. Haye was just a tool for some of the most memorable trolling I remember on ESB.


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## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I'm honestly more concerned that I know that but I've been reading your guys shit for years now. :lol:
> 
> Thanks for the contribution. :good I couldn't believe he survived that shot :rofl


People seem to forget what a badass Briscoe was, and how poised he was to win the title...and he would have had he been in with anyone else. I though Monzon took that shot amazingly well and was cool, calm and clever in riding out that round, just like he was vs Valdez in that 2nd round of their rematch. monzon should get the same credit for his chin that Ali gets for his.


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## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

Evander Holyfield

1. Bowe II
2. Qawi I
3. Tyson I
4. Moorer II
5. Dokes

Past the top 3 it gets more difficult to separate the next best 2. Foreman, Holmes, Qawi II, De Leon, Rahman & Ruiz all deserve a mention


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Stone Rose said:


> Yeah it was a brutal fight, broke my heart as a young un.


It's hard to watch Michael Watson nowadays,that's why McCallum's brilliance that night gets passed over here.It is one of his best though.And I felt he was robbed against Toney.I'm sure the second was the one he should've had,but I'll need to check again.


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## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

Stone Rose said:


> No Mike Watson ? Maccallum was phenomal that night


McCallum was phenomenal so many times.


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

Lennox Lewis

1. Holyfield
2. Klitchsko
3. Ruddock
4. Golota
5. Mercer


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## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

McCallum won the 2nd fight with Toney imo, close but clear.

Its a great tactical adjustment by Mike, boxing off the back foot & drawing leads off Toney.


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

Phantom said:


> McCallum was phenomenal so many times.


I know ,but that fight he outclassed a rising star in emphatic fashion. Watson was a class act but he got badly hurt and stopped despite having a lot of success himself. Maccallum looked like a force of nature that night despite being past prime.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Eder Jofre @Vic


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Éder Jofre:

-José Legra
-Bernardo Caraballo
-Johnny Caldwell
-Jose Medel I
-Piero Rollo

Joe Louis

-Max Baer
-Max Schmeling II
-Joe Walcott II
-Billy Conn I
-Primo Carnera


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## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> A lot of quality to choose from in his top ten.
> 
> I ultimately picked Palomino because he was so absurdly dominant over him in what was his 147 coming out party against a HOF Champion who had a multi year reign and only just lost it to a surging Wilfred Benitez on a decision in PR.


Yeah like I said it's very close, he has a lot of top quality wins, and you wouldn't get me to argue strongly either way as both, as well as Barkley, are acceptable IMO


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Stone Rose said:


> Lennox Lewis
> 
> 1. Holyfield
> 2. Klitchsko
> ...


I'd have it:

1. Holyfield
2. Klitschko
3. Tua
4. Tyson
5. Mercer maybe Bruno

I know Tyson wasn't a shade of himself but it is still so damn significant. Not like Lewis was prime either.


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## PowerBack (Jun 4, 2013)

Mikkel Kessler:
Froch I
Andrade
Beyer
Mundine
Magee

Thomas Hearns:
Duran
Benitez
Cuevas
Hill
Shuler

Vitali Klitschko:
Sanders
Peter
Kirk Johnson
Hide
Kevin Johnson


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Holyfield

Riddick Bowe II
Mike Tyson I
Dwight Muhammad Qawi I
George Foreman
Michael Moorer II

Roberto Duran

Sugar ray Leonard
Esteban De Jesus II
Ken Buchanan
Esteban De Jesus III
Iran Barkley

Sugar Ray Robinson

Kid Gavillan II
Jake La Motta V
Carmen Basillio II
Gene Fullmer II
Fritzie Zivic II


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Sugar Ray Robinson
> 
> Kid Gavillan II
> Jake La Motta V
> ...


I'd put Armstrong instead of Zivic. Even that version of Armstrong who was still rated the number 2 WW behind Robinson. Completely spanked him too.


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## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> There were more than a couple of those intentionally put in there. Haye was just a tool for some of the most memorable trolling I remember on ESB.


Haha - that's exactly what he was. A vehicle for winding up some idiots!


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

*Mike Jones*
Jesus Soto Karass II
10 rounds of Randall Bailey :twisted
Sebastian Andres Lujan
Henry Bruseles
Hector Munoz


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

shaunster101 said:


> Haha - that's exactly what he was. A vehicle for winding up some idiots!


You're a very funny man. :lol: I remember your PED crusade as well



bballchump11 said:


> *Mike Jones*
> Jesus Soto Karass II
> 10 rounds of Randall Bailey :twisted
> Sebastian Andres Lujan
> ...


Takes a huge dump on Duran, SRL and Pea though. 10 rounds of Bailey >>>>


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> You're a very funny man. :lol: I remember your PED crusade as well
> 
> Takes a huge dump on Duran, SRL and Pea though. 10 rounds of Bailey >>>>


Those were some of the slickest 10 rounds in history :yep


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

Eubank...


1. Benn
2. Watson
3. Rocchigiani
4. Malinga
5. Wharton


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

In no order

KO 7 Ruben Olivares- Lopez comes off the can canvas to stop an aging but still great former champion
KO 4 Sean O'Grady- a sacrificial lamb turns wolf and ruins a perfect record
W 15 David Kotey- Lopez proves its more than just heart and power in winning the title
KO 15 Mike Ayala- perhaps the most stereotypical Lopez performance, he has to knock his man out twice in this FOTY
KO 7 Art Hafey- Lopez ends the career of perennial contender Hafey, becoming the only man not named Arguello to stop him


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

MadcapMaxie said:


> I'd put Armstrong instead of Zivic. Even that version of Armstrong who was still rated the number 2 WW behind Robinson. Completely spanked him too.


I did think about it but from what I've read about the fight it was effectively an exhibition with bth guys knowing the score of what would happen if they engaged properly. Robinson really just gave Armstrong a payday, he could have probably KO'd him if he'd wanted to.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

LittleRed said:


> In no order
> 
> KO 7 Ruben Olivares- Lopez comes off the can canvas to stop an aging but still great former champion
> KO 4 Sean O'Grady- a sacrificial lamb turns wolf and ruins a perfect record
> ...


One of the most exciting fighters of the 1970s easily. Top champion and deserving IBHOF.


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## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

Ike Quartey

Oscar (fuck the jugdes)
Espana
Lopez
Forrest (fuck the judges)
Phillips


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Wilfred Benitez

Antonio Cervantes
Roberto Duran
Carlos Palomino
Randy Shields
Emilliano Villa


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> One of the most exciting fighters of the 1970s easily. Top champion and deserving IBHOF.


:deal


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Pacquiao 
Barrera
Casamayor 
Diaz
Salido

Unsure where I'd fit John if we count contested decisions.


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## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

*Julio César Chávez*
Meldrick Taylor
Edwin Rosario
Hector Camacho
Jose Luis Ramirez
Roger Mayweather


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

Floyd Patterson

Since I can't count Ellis and Quarry, Here we go.

1. Ingemar Johansson 2
2. Archie Moore
3. Oscar Bonavena
4. Ingemar Johansson 3
5. Eddie Machen/ George Chuvalo


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## McGrain (Jul 6, 2012)

Sam Langford ain't my favourite, but he's definitely the most earth-shattering.

W15 Joe Gans
KO19 Harry Wills
KO13 Sam McVey 
KO7 Joe Jeanette
KO2 Tiger Flowers (I picked this one because he was close to blind whilst KOing this particular ATG)

The list of ATG fighters that don't even make it on is long.


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## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

Bernard Hopkins

1) Felix Trinidad
2) Kelly Pavlik
3) Jean Pascal
4) Oscar De La Hoya
5) Difficult but I'm going with Howard Eastman


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

*The Immortal Khaosai Galaxy*

In no particular order:

Israel Contreras - undefeated future ATG bantamweight champion, huge puncher with epic KO wins over L.Espinosa, W.Vazquez and Ray Minus - destroyed in 5 rounds.
Elly Pical - ATG super flyweight champion and a flamboyant trash talker - never been stopped in his career - Kalulesai made him his bitch - KO 14.
David Griman - undefeated future ATG flyweight champion - never been stopped - Khaosai laughed at his punches and brutally demolished poor Griman in 5 rounds.
Yong-Kang Kim - ATG flyweight champion with legendary wins over Chitalada, Gamez and Leopard Tamakuma himself - never been stopped - KO 6.
Rafael Orono - former ATG super flyweight king - humiliated, schooled and punished - KO 5.

Honorable mention - Jiro Watanabe.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

I'll also do Cervantes:

Locche
De Jesus
Frazer
Jimenez 
Kadota?

Need help with this one...


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Cotto:

Mosley
Quintana 
Clottey
Margarito 
Judah


The Judah win edges Corley and Paulie, I think...


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## adamcanavan (Jun 5, 2012)

Carl Froch:
Bute
Pascal
Kessler
Taylor
Abraham

Duran:
Leonard I
Buchanan
Barkley
De Jesus II
De Jesus III

When Lomachenko has had 5 fights I'll do him, could do amateurs and wsb but


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Kadota?Need help with this one...


Gato Gonzalez instead of Kadota.

Mamby and H. Thompson deserve a mention.

And Battlehawk Kazama, of course.


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Sonny Liston and Jimmy Young, @Boxed Ears ???


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Gato Gonzalez instead of Kadota.
> 
> Mamby and H. Thompson deserve a mention.
> 
> And Battlehawk Kazama, of course.


I was struggling between Kadota and Gonzales and Thompson for 5th place. Thanks.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I was struggling between Kadota and Gonzales and Thompson for 5th place. Thanks.


Gato Gonzalez - Chango Carmona is a must-watch if you're a fan of Napoles.


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## adamcanavan (Jun 5, 2012)

Also chisora is one of my favourites :deal :
Scott
Helenius (we all know)
Gerber
Sexton II
Sexton I


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## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

*Antonio "Cherry Popper" Margarito*
Miguel Cotto
Sergio Martinez
Joshua Clottey
Kermit Cintron x2


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

:ibutt!!!!!!

Oscar Delahoya:!!!!!! Every win was electrifying except 1 :verysad

KO2 Rafael Ruelas (one of 3 to beat Oskee in the AMS)





KO4 Chavez SR





KO11 Fernando Vargas





SD12 Quartey





UD12 Sweet Pea Whitaker


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Lennox Lewis:

1- Andrew Golota
2-Evander Holyfield (I)
3-Vitali Klitschko
4-Razer Ruddock
5-Michael Grant


Lewis's win over Prime Mike Tyson didn't make the cut because I feel like Tyson's heart just wasn't in the fight.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Superman Roy Jones?

Hopkins at Middleweight
James Toney at Super Middleweight
Virgil Hill at 175
Griffin at 175 Rematch
John Ruiz UD at Heavyweight

Lost what,5 rounds combined in these fights.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Superman Roy Jones?
> 
> Hopkins at Middleweight
> James Toney at Super Middleweight
> ...


:ibutt

Mine would have been the same, though due to Toney's P4P status I tend to put that win above Hopkins.

5 rounds is probably generous, my God, what a fighter.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> :ibutt
> 
> Mine would have been the same, though due to Toney's P4P status I tend to put that win above Hopkins.
> 
> 5 rounds is probably generous, my God, what a fighter.


I watch the Toney fight a lot and I agree he should be #1 . Those body shots early were messing James up :yep :happy :happy


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

@Bogotazo

Check 16:35 in this vid (first round of Hall fight)


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

Haha, well, my favourite fighter is still relatively new to the scene:
Kiko Martínez
Steve Molitor
Jeremy Parodi
Raul Hirales
Kris Hughes
With a shout out to Robbie Turley too

Out of all the retired boxers:
Holyfield 1&2
Rahman
McCall
Morrison

Fucking difficult to decide that one was!


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

DrMo said:


> Ike Quartey
> 
> Oscar (fuck the jugdes)
> Espana
> ...


:rofl :lol:

No idea why you nuthug Ike so much, Oscar ruined him.


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Vic said:


> Éder Jofre:
> 
> -José Legra
> -Bernardo Caraballo
> ...


Others:

Nicolino Locche
-Cervantes I
-Eddie Perkins
-Fuji
-João Henrique
-Alfredo Urbina, maybe?

Mike Tyson

-Spinks
-Thomas
-Berbick
-Bruno I
-Holmes (yeah)


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## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

Roy Jones

Toney
Hopkins
Tarver
Ruiz
Hill


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> @Bogotazo
> 
> Check 16:35 in this vid (first round of Hall fight)


Couldn't stop watching, that ring generalship was superb. Thank you for that reminder.


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Wilfredo Gomez


-Carlos Zarate
-Alberto DAvila
-Leonardo Cruz
-Nicky Perez
-Yum


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Couldn't stop watching, that ring generalship was superb. Thank you for that reminder.


You just can't attack something like that. Foreman said it best "I don't know why these guys follow these punchers around" when talking Oskee and Jones :bowdown


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hatesrats said:


> *Antonio "Cherry Popper" Margarito*
> Miguel Cotto
> Sergio Martinez
> Joshua Clottey
> Kermit Cintron x2


Great shout my man.Still miss Margo

And @LittleRed;was looking forward to your choices here.You didn't disappoint.Great to see Danny get some much earned respect here.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Did anyone do Morales? What A G!

Pacquiao UD12
Barrera SD12
Jones KO4
Zaragoza KO10
Chavez UD12


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Couldn't stop watching, that ring generalship was superb. Thank you for that reminder.


I don't think anyone will ever complain about Roy's LHW run. The only guy he missed out on was Dariuz....
I wish I seen him fight all the MW/SMW Punchers though.. He probably would have beaten them all, but those wins would have propelled his already legendary career even further up.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

For the much missed John Lee Tapia;

1.Konadu
2.Romero
3.Soto(went distance with Hamed)
4.Julio
5.Medina(controversial)

Only my opinion and debatable.

Anyone want to give Finito and Arguello some love?


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

FelixTrinidad said:


> I don't think anyone will ever complain about Roy's LHW run. The only guy he missed out on was Dariuz....
> I wish I seen him fight all the MW/SMW Punchers though.. He probably would have beaten them all, but those wins would have propelled his already legendary career even further up.


Yeah. Benn would've been awesome. He'd have smoked him too as Benn was too wide and open for someone like Jones


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> For the much missed John Lee Tapia;
> 
> 1.Konadu
> 2.Romero
> ...


Maybe if Finito had some good wins.


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Who's doing the honors for Floyd?


Ricky
Oscar (the potshot artist)
Zab (walked down a dangerous counterpuncher)
Saul (showed us lots of new shit in this match)
Ndou (the Floyd roll was a very big deal)

why is the Hatton match first? simply because he whooped britain's favorite son. many brits have a *passive-aggressive* competitive attitude towards Americans. It's very subtle and underhanded because there's no way they could win an all out competition. they still bitter


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

- Erik Morales III
- Erik Morales II
- Naseem Hamed
- Kennedy Mckinney
- Johnny Tapia


----------



## Junito (Aug 10, 2012)

Miguel Cotto

Margarito 2
Mosley
Clottey
Pinto
Torres


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Vic said:


> Wilfredo Gomez


Where the hell is Pintor, Vic?!!!

Or Laporte?



Vic said:


> Nicolino Locche
> -Alfredo Urbina, maybe?


The hard punching Carlos Hernandez.


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Where the hell is Pintor, Vic?!!!
> 
> Or Laporte?
> 
> The hard punching Carlos Hernandez.


atsch
Did it quickly, even so I can´t believe I forgot about Pintor :lol: how that happened? The Laporte fight is not one of my faves, so I can see why I forgot that one .....

Carlos Hernandez, of course....the great venezuelan.


----------



## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Hagler:
1. Hearns. It's the shining moment in his career and a great 15 minute youtube session. 
2. Mugabi. His last win. He did it all in this fight. Nice work on the outside, slugged it out at times, and finished him late.
3. Alan Minter. Another good youtube watch, Hagler goes int Minter's back yard and dismantles him. First world title.
4. Vito Antuofermo 2. After a draw in the first fight, Hagler battered him in the rematch. Corner stoppage after 4 brutal rounds.
5. Fulgencio Obelmejias. Guy was on a KO tear before Hagler dispatched him in 8. Dominant victory as Hagler was pitching a shutout on all three cards at the time of the stoppage.

Please keep in mind that I was very young during his reign (born in 76) so a lot of my Hagler love is the result of my dad being a Hagler fan. I would be much more qualified to give an assesment of Cotto's career, as I've followed it from the start.


----------



## DirtyDan (May 25, 2013)

Felix Trinidad 
1. Oscar De la Hoya- had it 7-5 for Trinidad, don't care what anyone says
2. William Joppy
3. Fernando Vargas
4. Yori Boy Campas-(guy was supposed to be the next Chavez Sr, with a bloated record of 56-0)
5. Oba Carr or Camacho, either one is fine.(don't rate the Whitaker win since Whitaker is one of my favorite fighters and coked out of his mind in that fight)

Wilfredo Gomez
1. Carlos Zarate
2. Lupe Pintor
3. Dong-Kyun Yum
4. Leonardo Cruz
5. Rocky Lockridge(Gomez last hurrah)


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Maybe if Finito had some good wins.


Oooh! Cheeky boy!

I know what you're getting at though.I resisted to avoid comments like yours.:lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Oooh! Cheeky boy!
> 
> I know what you're getting at though.I resisted to avoid comments like yours.:lol:


:lol:

:smoke


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

For Frochy I got;

1.Bute ( @turbotime;suck it up buttercup :lol
2.Kessler II
3.Taylor
4.Pascal
5.Abraham


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

Harry Greb

Gene Tunney 40-0-1 (future HW champ)
Mike Gibbons 49-1-4 (finished his career 113-11-8)
Tommy Gibbons 39-0-1 (finished 95-5-5)
Tommy Loughran 11-1 (future light heavyweight champ 
Micky Walker 38-6 (welterweight champion)

To put simply, when he was he middleweight champion, he had beaten the WW champ (Walker), Light heavyweight champ (Loughran) and HW champion (Tunney).


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> For Frochy I got;
> 
> 1.Bute ( @turbotime;suck it up buttercup :lol
> 2.Kessler II
> ...


:lol: :-(


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> Hagler:
> 1. Hearns. It's the shining moment in his career and a great 15 minute youtube session.
> 2. Mugabi. His last win. He did it all in this fight. Nice work on the outside, slugged it out at times, and finished him late.
> 3. Alan Minter. Another good youtube watch, Hagler goes int Minter's back yard and dismantles him. First world title.
> ...


Jeff,you know I have mad respect for you friend,but Hagler was very bitter about Obelmeijas and felt he had no right getting his first shot as it was clear he'd been manoeuvred to top spot because of his connections with the WBA and to a lesser extent,Sulaiman.

Only putting it out there mate.No disrespect intended.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Superman Roy Jones?
> 
> Hopkins at Middleweight
> James Toney at Super Middleweight
> ...


That's an incredible Top 5, actually. Agree with Bogo on Toney, but I consider his skill level all-time upper echelon and at the time he was considered officially #2 behind only Whitaker, who's in my top five where that's concerned. So, jeah.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> That's an incredible Top 5, actually. Agree with Bogo on Toney, but I consider his skill level all-time upper echelon and at the time he was considered officially #2 behind only Whitaker, who's in my top five where that's concerned. So, jeah.


Toney looked good early in the fight too, but Jones countering had him shook.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

McGrain said:


> Sam Langford ain't my favourite, but he's definitely the most earth-shattering.
> 
> W15 Joe Gans
> KO19 Harry Wills
> ...


Thanks for coming through McGrain. Didn't necessarily know if he was a favorite, just that nobody aside from Clay Moyle has more to teach about him. You're like Surf Bat to Steve Compton @Klompton but better than Surf Bat if that makes sense. :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Toney looked good early in the fight too, but Jones countering had him shook.


Yeah he did but you know there's an excuse and slate for everything. :lol: No win is universally pure ever


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Yeah he did but you know there's an excuse and slate for everything. :lol: No win is universally pure ever


Toney would've had an excuse if he stopped Jones. He called McCallum the best he ever fought :lol:


----------



## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :rofl :lol:
> 
> No idea why you nuthug Ike so much, Oscar ruined him.


Remind me which of the 2 is the one running round in fishnets, going in & out of rehab every other week.

The golden girl got a gift that night, deal with it


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Will eventually quote most of these and put them in the OP. Semi-informational thread for some with fighters that have been listed and done.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

DrMo said:


> Remind me which of the 2 is the one running round in fishnets, going in & out of rehab every other week.
> 
> The golden girl got a gift that night, deal with it


Oscar messed Ike up so bad he ran back to Africa and came book looking like Oscar's old stabbings Shanna Moakler with that blonde hair :lol: Ike Bombshell Quartey


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Toney would've had an excuse if he stopped Jones. He called McCallum the best he ever fought :lol:


:rofl atsch



DrMo said:


> Remind me which of the 2 is the one running round in fishnets, going in & out of rehab every other week.
> 
> The golden girl got a gift that night, deal with it


Sorry Mo but Oskee makes light work out of Cucumber Cuevas.


----------



## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

Blond hair > lipstick, panties & a coke problem


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :rofl atsch
> 
> Sorry Mo but Oskee makes light work out of Cucumber Cuevas.


Cuevas would've been easyyyyyy money Oskee would've Ruelas'd that ass.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

DrMo said:


> Blond hair > lipstick, panties & a coke problem


Getting son'd by fighter with said coke problem.


----------



## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Sorry Mo but Oskee makes light work out of Cucumber Cuevas.


----------



## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Getting son'd by fighter with said coke problem.


Oscar waited until Ike was old, drained, semi-retired & rusty as hell & still got beat.

Unless you have a thing for trannies I don't see how anyone can give Oscar more than 4 rounds tbh.

Last post on that issue in this thread for me.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

DrMo said:


> Oscar waited until Ike was old, drained, semi-retired & rusty as hell & still got beat.
> 
> Unless you have a thing for trannies I don't see how anyone can give Oscar more than 4 rounds tbh.
> 
> Last post on that issue in this thread for me.


:rofl Waited yeah if only his parents would've waited a few years before to fuck, so Oscar would've moved to 147 sooner.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Cuevas would've been easyyyyyy money Oskee would've Ruelas'd that ass.


Duran would've done him the same if they'd fought three years earlier than they did. He was slipping Cuevas bombs and landing.devastating and demoralizing pin point counters at will. It.was fucking unbelievable.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Duran would've done him the same if they'd fought three years earlier than they did. He was slipping Cuevas bombs and landing.devastating and demoralizing pin point counters at will. It.was fucking unbelievable.


Duran/Delagoat would've went through Pip's victim's unscathed


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

atsch


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Julio Cesar Chavez:

Meldrick Taylor 1
Edwin Rosario
Mario Martinez
Rocky Lockridge
Hector Camacho


----------



## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

Cuevas-Duran would've been a bad ass fight in 1980. 

Duran in Montreal form vs a quicker & sharper Cuevas, all sorts of fireworks before Pipino gets flattened after having some success early on.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Who's doing the honors for Floyd? @bballchump11 @MichiganWarrior @~Cellzki~ I want to see where we differ
> 
> Gennady Golovkin @Oneshot
> 
> ...


 :rofl:rofl:rofl At your choice for Finito.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Just kidding Mo (sort of :lol: ) Cuev had ATG bone crunching power and was a good champ. Just totally overwhelmed by the shitstorm that was the SRL/Hearns/Benitez/Duran welterweight era


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> :rofl:rofl:rofl At your choice for Finito.



@Hatesrats did for the GMOAT


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Julio Cesar Chavez:
> 
> Meldrick Taylor 1
> Edwin Rosario
> ...


He didn't want to hurt Ramirez. Even though my favorite pic of him is from that fight


----------



## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

Napoles was the champ & then Palamino, Pipino was the highly entertaining sideshow.

Napoles is one of the best fighters on film imo


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Pacquiao
> Barrera
> Casamayor
> Diaz
> ...


Pacquiao.... X what? :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

DrMo said:


> Napoles was the champ & then Palamino, Pipino was the highly entertaining sideshow.
> 
> Napoles is one of the best fighters on film imo


Yeah Cuevas was a "titleholder" -- called him Champ out of respect.

Palomino - Benitez - SRL - Duran - SRL

Napoles was amazing. A unification between Palomino/Cuevas in the late 70s would've been nice.


----------



## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Yeah Cuevas was a "titleholder" -- called him Champ out of respect.
> 
> Palomino - Benitez - SRL - Duran - SRL
> 
> Napoles was amazing.* A unification between Palomino/Cuevas in the late 70s would've been nice*.


Not too nice for Pipino though, I reckon Palomino stops him late. He's tough enough to grind him down with that bodywork he did so well.

What Duran did to Palomino was incredible :bbb


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)




----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Toney would've had an excuse if he stopped Jones. He called McCallum the best he ever fought :lol:


Still :rofl



DrMo said:


> Not too nice for Pipino though, I reckon Palomino stops him late. He's tough enough to grind him down with that bodywork he did so well.
> 
> What Duran did to Palomino was incredible :bbb


That's why it made my top five for him.


----------



## McKay (Jun 6, 2012)

Salvador Sanchez:
1. Wilfredo Gomez
2. Azumah Nelson
3. Danny Lopez 1
4. Danny Lopez 2
5. Juan Laporte

Michael Carbajal:
1. Humberto Gonzalez
2. Muangchai Kittikasem
3. Jorge Arce
4. Melchor Cob Castro
5. Robinson Cuesta

Lennox Lewis:
1. Evader Holyfield
2. Donovan Ruddock 
3. Vitali Klitchsko
4. Andrew Golota
5. Hasim Rahman

Ken Buchanan:
1. Ismael Laguna 1
2. Jim Watt
3. Ismael Laguna 2
4. Ruben Navarro
5. Carlos Ortiz


----------



## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Jeff,you know I have mad respect for you friend,but Hagler was very bitter about Obelmeijas and felt he had no right getting his first shot as it was clear he'd been manoeuvred to top spot because of his connections with the WBA and to a lesser extent,Sulaiman.
> 
> Only putting it out there mate.No disrespect intended.


Hence my disclaimer at the bottom. I really don't know a lot about the circumstances involving many of Marvin's fights. Just what I've pieced together from ESPN Classic, Youtube, and stories from my dad and his friends. No need to put "no disrespect" when giving me insight. I know you mean no disrespect.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Pacquiao.... X what? :lol:


4 :ibutt

First two by a point. Third by at least 3 points, and the 4th via divine justice.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Nice ones, McKay. :good

Buchanan is an All-Time Great. :yep


----------



## McKay (Jun 6, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol: :smile


atsch


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Still :rofl
> 
> That's why it made my top five for him.


JT is a salty bastard :rofl


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

McKay said:


> atsch


Fixed, man. on my quote. That stuff happens.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

@McKay @MGS Sanchez is a legitimate ATG based on what he did and not so much what could've been although that definitely lingers. To have Gomez, Nelson, Lopez x2 and LaPorte/Castillo by Age 23 you have to be incredibly lucky to have that type of opposition available and even better to pull it off.


----------



## McKay (Jun 6, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Fixed, man. on my quote. That stuff happens.


Cheers brother! I always end up mixing those 2 names up.

Yeah it really is crazy. I don't think anybody ever had as good a record as Sanchez by the age of 23. It was insane, obviously there's gonna be a bit of 'what if?' with any fighter who dies so young, but Sanchez' record speaks for itself.


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Bernard Hopkins

Really tricky in all honesty, bearing in mind all the different factors. I can explain in greater detail if needed...

1. Trinidad
2. Tarver
3. Pavlik
4. Pascal
5. ODLH


I almost put Winky in there, ahead of Oscar.


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

I guess I'll do the other lopez, since flea is unavailable...

Sorjaturong
Alvarez II
Sanchez
Grigsby
Korean midget #7


----------



## Freedom2014 (Nov 5, 2013)

Wladimir Klitschko

Chris Byrd
Sultan Ibragimov
Ruslan Chagaev
David Haye
Alexander Povetkin


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Floyd Mayweather Jr

Castillo
Corrales
Canelo
Oscar
Judah


----------



## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

nobody going to question Machen as my 5th pick?


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

FloydPatterson said:


> nobody going to question Machen as my 5th pick?


What would be the other options ? Yvon Durelle?


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> He didn't want to hurt Ramirez. Even though my favorite pic of him is from that fight


My favorite punch from Julio is on that fight...when he backs up against the ropes and lands that hard counter right hand that drops Ramirez.

What a beautiful shot that was.


----------



## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

Vic said:


> What would be the other options ? Yvon Durelle?


I honestly had no idea Patterson fought him, wow


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

FloydPatterson said:


> I honestly had no idea Patterson fought him, wow


And he fought Durelle the first time when Durelle was relatively in his peak form....


----------



## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

Vic said:


> And he fought Durelle the first time when Durelle was relatively in his peak form....


Just boxrec'd it, he only had 9 fights when they fought the first time as well


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Vicente Saldivar:

Ulltiminio "Sugar" Ramos
Ismael Laguna
Johnny Famechon
Jose Legra
Howard Winstone x3


----------



## Setanta (May 24, 2013)

Liston
Foreman
Lyle
Frazier (3)
Spinks


----------



## godsavethequeen (Jun 12, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Superman Roy Jones?
> 
> Hopkins at Middleweight
> James Toney at Super Middleweight
> ...


Jones fights were awesome I could watch them over and over. A shame he did not quit while he was ahead.. ATG every day of the year.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

godsavethequeen said:


> Jones fights were awesome I could watch them over and over. A shame he did not quit while he was ahead.. ATG every day of the year.


How nice you guys agree on something for once


----------



## godsavethequeen (Jun 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> How nice you guys agree on something for once


He has a distain for Pac and I do for Floyd. I take nothing away from Floyd for his skill and Turbo does not for Pac ( I think lol ) 
As for the Jones thing. Boxing at that time in the UK was very domestic orientated. However I remember seeing alot of Jones's fights on a Chanel 4 program late night. 
It was very like the first time I saw Nirvana on the Word, you thought WoW. And I thought the very same about Jones.
What annoys me the most is the people that make the fights ( and trust me its not the fighter ) did not make the Calazaghe fight earlier.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


>


Looking at this highlight video, i have to say again and again that in this fight, Chavez showed some BRILLIANT defense on the inside many times.

But of course, those HBO nuthugging **** wouldn't say a single word about it and instead would cream their pants over many of Taylors punches that were blocked, slipped, and rolled with.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Looking at this highlight video, i have to say again and again that in this fight, Chavez showed some BRILLIANT defensse on the inside many times.
> 
> But of course, those HBO nuthugging **** wouldn't say a single word about it and instead would cream their pants over many of Taylors punches that were blocked, slipped, and rolled with.


:lol:

Yeah, Chavez had an ATG Chin but he wasn't taking flush shots like THAT. He, along with Tyson and Duran are the greatest offensive machines with the best built-in defensive abilities able to slip, roll and counter with devastating results. Tyson was no in-fighter though like he's inaccurately categorized, straight up bob and weave mid-range combination bomber.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

godsavethequeen said:


> He has a distain for Pac and I do for Floyd. I take nothing away from Floyd for his skill and Turbo does not for Pac ( I think lol )
> As for the Jones thing. Boxing at that time in the UK was very domestic orientated. However I remember seeing alot of Jones's fights on a Chanel 4 program late night.
> It was very like the first time I saw Nirvana on the Word, you thought WoW. And I thought the very same about Jones.
> What annoys me the most is the people that make the fights ( and trust me its not the fighter ) did not make the Calazaghe fight earlier.


Cheers, man. Turbo is one of my favorite posters -- just avoid Mayweather/Pacquiao stuff. :lol:


----------



## godsavethequeen (Jun 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Cheers, man. Turbo is one of my favorite posters -- just avoid Mayweather/Pacquiao stuff. :lol:


I do now lol. I hated being classed a Pactard so I felt it best just to shut the [email protected]#k up...Although when I see some stupid CANT say something ridiculous ( like Bradley WON lmao ) I do see red

Turbo and BBall are both good posters, Problem here is there are some trolls that continually make threads to stir up shit or keep going over old ground.


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

JohnAnthony said:


> Manny Pac
> 
> 1) Cotto
> 2) Morales
> ...


All of those wins suck, except MAB, as the opponents were at terrible points in their career when they took the fights. Also, catchweights/rehydration limits...no OSDT. etc, etc, etc


----------



## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Some more of my favourite fighters Heavyweights only. I'll leave George Foreman to @Kally and I think someone already did Holyfield...

*Muhammad Ali*

1. George Foreman
2. Joe Frazier II & III
3. Sonny Liston I & II
4. Ken Norton II & III
5. Jimmy Ellis

HM: Floyd Patterson

*Max Baer*

1. Max Schmeling
2. Primo Carnera
3. Tony Galento
4. Tommy Farr
5. Pat Comiskey

*Tommy Morrison*

1. George Foreman
2. Razor Ruddock 
3. Carl Williams
4. Joe Hipp
5. Pinklon Thomas


----------



## godsavethequeen (Jun 12, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> All of those wins suck, except MAB, as the opponents were at terrible points in their career when they took the fights. Also, catchweights/rehydration limits...no OSDT. etc, etc, etc


As I said earlier it is idiots like you that piss me off when talking about Pacquiao. You must be a hater ( plain and simple ) as there is NO one doing OSDT in boxing. Whats worse is you seem to be under the delusion that the others ( MAB, Morrales, Marg, ODLH, Cotto and Hatton ) did any type of RBT before they fought Paccos they did NOT. 
Yeah Yeah we have heard peoples opinions like yours numerous times. Pac used a catch weight blah blah blah. Yet you never tell the whole story do ya?? I ain't going in to it anymore as there is no point, you stick to trolling...


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Mike Tyson

Tony Tucker (34-0)
Razor Ruddock I (25-1)
Pinklon Thomas (29-1)
Michael Spinks (31-0)
Larry Holmes (48-2)

Holmes and Spinks are obviously the best names, but I'd take the other three at least as being more potent, considerable challenges at the time he fought them. All of them were the highest rated contenders he could've fought ATT.


----------



## DirtyDan (May 25, 2013)

Carlos Ortiz
1. Duilio Loi
2. Ismael Laguna
3. Kenny Lane
4. Sugar Ramos
5. Flash Elorde

ATG Resume, arguably PR's greatest fighter, although Gomez is the most popular.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

DirtyDan said:


> Carlos Ortiz
> 1. Duilio Loi
> 2. Ismael Laguna
> 3. Kenny Lane
> ...


Thanks for the contributions. Holding PR down in this thread. :lol: :deal

And yeah, Carlos is undeniable even though I love the Wilfred's (Gomez and Benitez both) more as fighters.


----------



## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

PowerBack said:


> Thomas Hearns:
> Duran
> Benitez
> Cuevas
> ...


Would it be acceptable to include SRL 2?


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

godsavethequeen said:


> As I said earlier it is idiots like you that piss me off when talking about Pacquiao. You must be a hater ( plain and simple ) as there is NO one doing OSDT in boxing. Whats worse is you seem to be under the delusion that the others ( MAB, Morrales, Marg, ODLH, Cotto and Hatton ) did any type of RBT before they fought Paccos they did NOT.
> Yeah Yeah we have heard peoples opinions like yours numerous times. Pac used a catch weight blah blah blah. Yet you never tell the whole story do ya?? I ain't going in to it anymore as there is no point, you stick to trolling...


Most fighters don't jump weight classes overnight and maintain or even increase power, speed, and stamina...and then refuse to take part in the biggest fight in a quarter century over a fear of needles. That's called *legitimate suspicion*.

Many fighters do OSDT nowadays. OSDT = Olympic *STYLE* Drug Testing, meaning it's not OLYMPIC DRUG TESTING...It's OLYMPIC STYLE. So it's random blood/urine during training camps up until the fight. Yes, that is Olympic STYLE Drug Testing.

MAB was an excellent win, and I said that. Morales should've been obliterated in his first fight with Pac, but Manny is that bad. Roach and his cherry picking, lolz. But Manny on that juice was able to beat the warrior in their 2nd and 3rd bouts...Margarito, who I've LONG been outspoken on, really did nothing his entire career besides own a granite chin (or so it seemed). His career performance was against Cotto and then in his very next fight...he got demolished by an over-the-hill Mosley, AND he was caught with plaster in his wraps...meaning Margs was never shit. Cotto, following the plaster battering, lost a close decision with Clottey (was given a gift win in reality) and looked hesitant/scared...the CW was a good mental edge and the Pacman succeeded again. DLH lost cleanly to Floyd and then looked like shit, having his orbital bone broken, by Steve "feather fisted" Forbes. DLH proceeded to weigh less than Manny on fight night...walking corpse. Ricky Hatton, the same fighter who literally almost got KTFO in every single fight following the Floyd check hook, was built to order for a fast, juiced fighter with some pop.

There's the whole fucking story. And Yes I'm an admitted Pacquiao hater because I do believe he juiced. Unlike some other bandwagon fans in here, I preserve praise for those athletes who display integrity in their performances AND training. Similarly, I do not love Floyd Mayweather because I hate Pacquiao. I just hate Pacquiao. How Pacman's feats are beloved by some and yet his persistence on refusing to submit to RBT (which lasted Y E A R S) are overlooked is simply beyond me. I don't think I would hate him as much if he didn't have the fanboys that he has, as I don't like RJJ/Mosley/other PED cheats, but I don't hate those guys.


----------



## godsavethequeen (Jun 12, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Most fighters don't jump weight classes overnight and maintain or even increase power, speed, and stamina...and then refuse to take part in the biggest fight in a quarter century over a fear of needles. That's called *legitimate suspicion*.
> 
> Many fighters do OSDT nowadays. OSDT = Olympic *STYLE* Drug Testing, meaning it's not OLYMPIC DRUG TESTING...It's OLYMPIC STYLE. So it's random blood/urine during training camps up until the fight. Yes, that is Olympic STYLE Drug Testing.
> 
> ...


I rest my case YOU are just a HATER


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Lomachenko:
1. Gold medal in Beijing against Frenchie, KO1 in a final
2. Revenge against Selimov in Beijing
3. Beating Toledo in London, Toledo is a beast and already had a taste of Lomachenko
4. Schooling against Valentino in the WSB
5. Pro debut against Ramirez, GOAT pro debut.
@Hands of Iron


----------



## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Mike Tyson
> 
> Tony Tucker (34-0)
> Razor Ruddock I (25-1)
> ...


Just out of curiosity why have Tucker so high?


----------



## JohnAnthony (Jun 6, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Most fighters don't jump weight classes overnight and maintain or even increase power, speed, and stamina...and then refuse to take part in the biggest fight in a quarter century over a fear of needles. That's called *legitimate suspicion*.
> 
> Many fighters do OSDT nowadays. OSDT = Olympic *STYLE* Drug Testing, meaning it's not OLYMPIC DRUG TESTING...It's OLYMPIC STYLE. So it's random blood/urine during training camps up until the fight. Yes, that is Olympic STYLE Drug Testing.
> 
> ...


Your post doesnt go into the whole story.

You could do what you've done with every fighters resume in history if you wanted to.

You just obviously hate Manny Pac so are hugely bias

What would your top 5 be?

Pick any fight, and I'll show you how you can troll and tear it apart.


----------



## Slick and Jewish (Nov 6, 2013)

*Tim Bradley*
- Manny Pacquiao
- Juan Manuel Marquez
- Devon Alexander
- Joel Casamayor
- Lamont Peterson

*John Conteh*
- Vicente Rondon
- Jorge Ahumada
- Chris Finnegan
- Tom Bogs
- Yaqui Lopez


----------



## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

Slick and Jewish said:


> *Tim Bradley*
> - Manny Pacquiao
> - Juan Manuel Marquez
> - Devon Alexander
> ...


Witter has to be in that list instead of Joel.


----------



## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

Great thread. 
James Toney.

Nunn
McCallum
Jirov
R. Johnson
Barkley

Feel like he won the first fight with Peter too damnit ;-) 
Fought a heavy in the pocket while past his best. Toney!!!


----------



## PowerBack (Jun 4, 2013)

Lunny said:


> Would it be acceptable to include SRL 2?


Thought of it. But no, the official result is a draw and it is already subjective enough to determine top 5 wins, legacy, greatness etc. We must assume that the judges saw something to legitimize the draw. Overall it is just hard for me to include draws/losses to a boxer's resume, even though the general opinion is that they won.


----------



## PowerBack (Jun 4, 2013)

Freedom2014 said:


> Wladimir Klitschko
> 
> Chris Byrd
> Sultan Ibragimov
> ...


Not Peter instead of Haye?
And why is Povetkin so low? He is/was a better win than Chagaev and Ibragimov imo.


----------



## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

PowerBack said:


> Thought of it. But no, the official result is a draw and it is already subjective enough to determine top 5 wins, legacy, greatness etc. We must assume that the judges saw something to legitimize the draw. Overall it is just hard for me to include draws/losses to a boxer's resume, even though the general opinion is that they won.


:sad2 It still hurts.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

DrMo said:


> Just out of curiosity why have Tucker so high?


Really not much to the order on his as with some of the others. Flip it upside down and I wouldn't really notice.



Hoshi said:


> Great thread.
> James Toney.
> 
> Nunn
> ...


http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?24768-The-10-BEST-Fighters-You-ve-Ever-Seen


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> Lomachenko:
> 1. Gold medal in Beijing against Frenchie, KO1 in a final
> 2. Revenge against Selimov in Beijing
> 3. Beating Toledo in London, Toledo is a beast and already had a taste of Lomachenko
> ...


Thanks, D. :lol: :good

Was actually a serious inquiry, and I've only seen #4 /#5.

Didn't realize you were a big Whitaker and Toney fan either until the other top ten best thread.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Thanks, D. :lol: :good
> 
> Was actually a serious inquiry, and I've only seen #4 /#5.
> 
> Didn't realize you were a big Whitaker and Toney fan either until the other top ten best thread.


Toney at his best was pure boxing, hit and not get hit. His defence was otherwordly against an aggressive guy and the great thing about it is that he still wanted to put the hurt on, not just avoid punches. The most important thing is that he wanted to kick some ass, his defence was always part of his offence.


----------



## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

*Young Corbett III* - and he was a 5'7 natural WW

Billy Conn
Mickey Walker
Fred Apostoli
Ceferino Garcia
Gus Lesnevich


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> Toney at his best was pure boxing, hit and not get hit. His defence was otherwordly against an aggressive guy and the great thing about it is that he still wanted to put the hurt on, not just avoid punches. The most important thing is that he wanted to kick some ass, his defence was always part of his offence.


Agree, 100. There were few fighters as wholly enjoyable to watch.


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Vysotsky said:


> *Young Corbett III* - and he was a 5'7 natural WW
> 
> Billy Conn
> Mickey Walker
> ...


YC 3 is sick good. Havs you done Steele?

Has anyone done Armstrong? McLarnin? Chang?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

godsavethequeen said:


> Jones fights were awesome I could watch them over and over. A shame he did not quit while he was ahead.. ATG every day of the year.





Hands of Iron said:


> How nice you guys agree on something for once


arty :hammer arty


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Oskee ud10 Trinidad as well.


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Does anyone else on here think Roy Jones @ HW could actually go 4-1 against Wladimir's 'top 5 wins'


Chris Byrd
Sultan Ibragimov
Ruslan Chagaev
David Haye
Alexander Povetkin

I actually see HW Roy beating them all outside of Haye.


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

And no I'm not trying to say how good Roy was at HW.. I'm saying how shit Wlad's resume is.


----------



## Drew101 (Jun 30, 2012)

Yeah, I'll play.

Eusebio Pedroza:

1. Rocky Lockridge II (a bit more definitive than the first,;, against a more experienced version of Lockridge. Lockridge's credentials at 130 make this victory the best of Pedroza's career, imo )

2. Patrick Ford (Ford had given Sanchez fits no too long before, and was in good form here. But Pedroza was in the zone and broke down a legit contender in brutal, efficient and aesthecially pleasing fashion. Definitely Alcaran's best performance, imo.)

3. Juan LaPorte (foul-fest though it was, Pedroza survived some serious fire that night to come on at the end.)

4. Ruben Olivares (Yeah, yeah...Rockabye Ruben was well past his best at this point. But as victories over Jose Luis Ramirez and Shig Fukiyama proved, he could still fight a bit and a was dangerous guy to face. Pedroza dominated him, and then blasted him out with as pretty a combination of lefts as you're ever likely to see.)

5. Jorge Lujan (In his final defense, as he showed signs of fading, he still had enough left to defeat former bantam titleholder and general pain-in-the-ass-to-fight Lujan, overcoming an inspired effort to defeat his countryman after fifteen fast paced rounds. Given where he was in his career and the quality of his opponent, it's a damned good win, imo.)


----------



## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> I'm gonna go with these for McCallum;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome!! Do you think he deserved the nod over Toney in the rematch? Close one wasn't it? Brill fighter, loved his spar with Hearns from the Kronk footage. He'd have beaten Hearns at 154 imo.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Toney edged it. Going to rewatch the first two sometime this week though.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

If anything I remember the first actually being more conclusive for Toney. Could probably swap the results of I & II


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hoshi said:


> Awesome!! Do you think he deserved the nod over Toney in the rematch? Close one wasn't it? Brill fighter, loved his spar with Hearns from the Kronk footage. He'd have beaten Hearns at 154 imo.


Thanks Hoshi.I think Mike is the GOAT at 154 and in the rematch I think Mike deserved the nod more than he deserved a draw in the first fight.Some people talk about Mike as a brilliant defensive fighter(which he was) but I think he had an almost flawless all round game.

Glad you enjoyed it.:good:


----------



## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> If anything I remember the first actually being more conclusive for Toney. Could probably swap the results of I & II


Both close if I'm honest, no shame in that though. He hurt Mike in the first fight a few times though, impressive with a chin like McCallum's.






All the other defensive counter punchers I have seen none impressed me more. Mayweather and the rest are long gone after a quick pocket exchange, Toney stays there firing combinations, knowing he has a chin to take whatever.


----------



## PowerBack (Jun 4, 2013)

FelixTrinidad said:


> Does anyone else on here think Roy Jones @ HW could actually go 4-1 against Wladimir's 'top 5 wins'
> 
> Chris Byrd
> Sultan Ibragimov
> ...


What if what if. All of them are better than Ruiz and you didn't include Peter, who was imo better than Haye when Wlad fought him the 1st time.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Hoshi said:


> Both close if I'm honest, no shame in that though. He hurt Mike in the first fight a few times though, impressive with a chin like McCallum's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Definitely no shame, he was in against one of the best fighters ever. I truly do remember giving him 7-5 on the first bout though. The second I've only seen once, and it was quite a bit more tactical. No problem giving Mike that one really. And yeah, his far more stationary style and nature made him infinitely entertaining. :lol: This is also why I actually prefer to watch Whitaker fights at 147 over 135 for the most part. @turbotime


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Definitely no shame, he was in against one of the best fighters ever. I truly do remember giving him 7-5 on the first bout though. The second I've only seen once, and it was quite a bit more tactical. No problem giving Mike that one really. And yeah, his far more stationary style and nature made him infinitely entertaining. :lol: This is also why I actually prefer to watch Whitaker fights at 147 over 135 for the most part. @turbotime


I got watching Pea and Roy last night once I posted that Jones vid for Bogo. It was awesome arty


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> I got watching Pea and Roy last night once I posted that Jones vid for Bogo. It was awesome arty


As Pea moved up in weight and started losing some foot speed and his legs, you'd find him staying in the pocket for much longer periods and putting himself at greater risk, slipping shots on instinct and head/upper body movement, finding countering opportunities from all sorts of fucked angles, it was brilliant. I actually like big Floyd too. It's incredible to see these guys hold their ground and still dominate exchanges in the pocket or against the ropes. Floyd was doing that at the lower weights as well though too. Toney is definitely the top drawer beast there though @Hoshi


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> As Pea moved up in weight and started losing some foot speed and his legs, you'd find him staying in the pocket for much longer periods and putting himself at greater risk, slipping shots on instinct and head/upper body movement, finding countering opportunities from all sorts of fucked angles, it was brilliant. I actually like big Floyd too. It's incredible to see these guys hold their ground and still dominate exchanges in the pocket or against the ropes. Floyd was doing that at the lower weights as well though too. Toney is definitely the top drawer beast there though @Hoshi


Yeah this new Mayweather is awesomely strong. Whitaker was a tiny guy though in comparison. Not a lot of muscle to him really


----------



## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

LittleRed said:


> YC 3 is sick good. Havs you done Steele?
> 
> Has anyone done Armstrong? McLarnin? Chang?


*Freddie Steele

*Fred Apostoli MW Champion
Ken Overlin MW Champion
Ceferino Garcia WW & MW Champion
Solly Kreiger MW Champion
Gus Lesnevich LHW Champion

*Holman Williams

*Charley Burley
Archie Moore
Lloyd Marshall
Eddie Booker
Bert Lytell

*Teddy Yarosz*

Billy Conn
Archie Moore
Lloyd Marshall
Ken Overlin
Solly Kreiger

*Ken Overlin
*
Ezzard Charles
Fred Apostoli
Al Hostak
Ceferino Garcia
Steve Belloise


----------



## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

Some quality threads today pal, just bookmarked this and the '10 best fighters you've ever seen' to keep me from boredom at work. Popkins was another great thread starter, shame he ain't around now.

Looking through some fighters that I want to learn more on, I always end up back watching Toney though :lol::lol:

Napoles is who I'm looking at watching more of.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Yeah this new Mayweather is awesomely strong. Whitaker was a tiny guy though in comparison. Not a lot of muscle to him really


 He's like 2001-2004 Barry Bonds right now. @JMP



Hoshi said:


> Some quality threads today pal, just bookmarked this and the '10 best fighters you've ever seen' to keep me from boredom at work. Popkins was another great thread starter, shame he ain't around now.
> 
> Looking through some fighters that I want to learn more on, I always end up back watching Toney though :lol::lol:
> 
> Napoles is who I'm looking at watching more of.


So James is your favorite fighter? :lol:

I'm trying, man. I had been a Lounge Rat for months until last week. Have to thank @Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) @Bogotazo @turbotime @bballchump11 @FelixTrinidad for indirectly restoring the passion.


----------



## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

*Soldier Bartfield - *His Top 5 is better than 99% of the ATG boxers in this thread

Harry Greb
Mike Gibbons
Jack Britton
Ted Kid Lewis
Billy Papke


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> He's like 2001-2004 Barry Bonds right now. @JMP
> 
> So James is your favorite fighter? :lol:
> 
> I'm trying, man. I had been a Lounge Rat for months until last week. Have to thank @Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) @Bogotazo @turbotime @bballchump11 @FelixTrinidad for indirectly restoring the passion.


You're still strangely absent from the torches thread. I assume the fair is over, yes?


----------



## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> You're still strangely absent from the torches thread. I assume the fair is over, yes?


I have an epic Jaime Lannister avatar to rock when Thrones resumes next year Bogo


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> You're still strangely absent from the torches thread. I assume the fair is over, yes?


Its way too late to get involved. :-(


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Hoshi said:


> I have an epic Jaime Lannister avatar to rock when Thrones resumes next year Bogo


You used to have the Corleone avi on ESB, no?


----------



## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> He's like 2001-2004 Barry Bonds right now. @JMP
> 
> So James is your favorite fighter? :lol:
> 
> I'm trying, man. I had been a Lounge Rat for months until last week. Have to thank @Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) @Bogotazo @turbotime @bballchump11 @FelixTrinidad for indirectly restoring the passion.


What shall I start with on Napoles? Full youtube fights to search for of which opponents? Cheers.


----------



## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> You used to have the Corleone avi on ESB, no?


With a daft yellow hat aye


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hoshi said:


> I have an epic Jaime Lannister avatar to rock when Thrones resumes next year Bogo


:ibutt

It's so fucking weird you say that because I had a dream I got into a swordfight with him, and he was just as good with his left hand now. Didn't remember until now.



Hands of Iron said:


> Its way too late to get involved. :-(


Uh, no.

Go. Now please.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> He's like 2001-2004 Barry Bonds right now. @JMP
> 
> So James is your favorite fighter? :lol:
> 
> I'm trying, man. I had been a Lounge Rat for months until last week. Have to thank @Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) @Bogotazo @turbotime @bballchump11 @FelixTrinidad for indirectly restoring the passion.


:yep you welcome


----------



## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

Hoshi said:


> What shall I start with on Napoles? Full youtube fights to search for of which opponents? Cheers.


Start with both the Cokes fights who was a terrific boxer himself.


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Vysotsky said:


> Start with both the Cokes fights who was a terrific boxer himself.


Yeah, cokes 1, Lopez 2, the urbina blowout. Just a quick primer.


----------



## Drew101 (Jun 30, 2012)

@ Hands of Iron

Tough to cut this down to five, but here we go...

*Henry Armstrong*

1. Barney Ross
2. Lou Ambers
3. Baby Arizmendi 
4. Sammy Angott
5. Lew Jenkins (just in terms of the ass kicking that was delivered)


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Brilliant, man. Agree @turbotime ? This is your boy.

Which Arizmendi win, Drew? :smile


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Nope Joyce is far greater than Jenkins.


----------



## Drew101 (Jun 30, 2012)

1st victory. Arizmendi was fighting at his best weight, and they were both at/near their primes.
@turbotime...Zivic is better than Jenkins and Joyce, but Armstring didn't obliterate Willie or Fritzie in quite the same way that he vaporized Lew. :bart


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Which reminds me...Ike Williams!! :ibutt!!!

KO6 Beau Jack
UD Kid Gavilan
KO6 Bob Montgomery
UD Willie Joyce
UD Samy Angott


What a G


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

LittleRed said:


> Yeah, cokes 1, Lopez 2, the urbina blowout. Just a quick primer.


Think I'm gonna engage in this myself.


----------



## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Which reminds me...Ike Williams!! :ibutt!!!
> 
> KO6 Beau Jack
> UD Kid Gavilan
> ...


Ike was a mean cat. When he unloaded on Jack that was something else.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Ike was a mean cat. When he unloaded on Jack that was something else.


Brutal, maybe my fave standing stoppage.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Brutal, maybe my fave standing stoppage.


He dropped fucking KID GAVILAN. atsch That happened one other time in 140+ fights


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> He's like 2001-2004 Barry Bonds right now. @JMP


Mayweather's great, but Barry Bonds was in God mode from 2001-2004 :yep He was making Major League pitching look like t-ball :lol:


----------



## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> He dropped fucking KID GAVILAN. atsch That happened one other time in 140+ fights


Yeah Basilio who beat Ike. Which reminds me....

*Carmen Basilio*

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Tony DeMarco
3. Billy Graham
4. Ike Williams
5. Johnny Saxton


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> He dropped fucking KID GAVILAN. atsch That happened one other time in 140+ fights


Man and almost had Joyce gone too. Look at the guys Joyce fought, and look how many times he was stopped.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JMP said:


> Mayweather's great, but Barry Bonds was in God mode from 2001-2004 :yep He was making Major League pitching look like t-ball :lol:


:rofl :deal


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Yeah Basilio who beat Ike. Which reminds me....
> 
> *Carmen Basilio*
> 
> ...





turbotime said:


> Man and almost had Joyce gone too. Look at the guys Joyce fought, and look how many times he was stopped.


Y'all know WTF you're talking about. The conversations on here move and transition so flawlessly because of this


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Y'all know WTF you're talking about. The conversations on here move and transition so flawlessly because of this


Ike was pretty old by then fighting Basilio and he really had no business moving up and beating Kid G. The only guy who bested more of a prime Ike was The man Joyce himself. Which is why I rate him so highly for Armstrong. Joyce schooled a top 4/5 lightweight numerous times here, it needs to be rewarded.


----------



## Takamura (Sep 6, 2013)

*Floyd Mayweather
*
Diego Corrales
Miguel Cotto
Ricky Hatton
Shane Mosley
Jose Luis Castillo


----------



## Takamura (Sep 6, 2013)

*Miguel Cotto
*
Shane Mosley
Joshua Clottey
Carlos Quintana
Zab Judah
Antonio Margarito


----------



## Takamura (Sep 6, 2013)

*Manny Pacquiao
*
Miguel Cotto
Erik Morales 2
Marco Antonio Barrera 1
Juan Manuel Marquez 1
Ricky Hatton


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> He dropped fucking KID GAVILAN. atsch That happened one other time in 140+ fights





MadcapMaxie said:


> Yeah Basilio who beat Ike.


I read somewhere that Carlos Malacara and Julio Cesar Jimenez also knocked Gavilan down.


----------



## Takamura (Sep 6, 2013)

*Takamura Mamoru

*David Eagle
Bryan Hawk
Peter Rabbitson
The Bear (check my avi)
Yajima Yoshiaki


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Dennis Lebedev

Top 5 Wins
Roy Jones Jr (Fighter of the Decade)
James Toney (P4P Champion/Defensive Elitist)
Enzo Maccarinelli
Santander Silgado
Alexander Alekseev


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> He's like 2001-2004 Barry Bonds right now. @JMP
> 
> So James is your favorite fighter? :lol:
> 
> I'm trying, man. I had been a Lounge Rat for months until last week. Have to thank @Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) @Bogotazo @turbotime @bballchump11 @FelixTrinidad for indirectly restoring the passion.


So my Angelo Dundee at the end of the twelfth style PM to you the other week about us leaving the lounge and coming back here to clean up had no effect? :lol:

At least you're back and on fire.That'll do for me.:good


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> So my Angelo Dundee at the end of the twelfth style PM to you the other week about us leaving the lounge and coming back here to clean up had no effect? :lol:
> 
> At least you're back and on fire.That'll do for me.:good


:lol: atsch

That was actually pretty direct. I didn't answer the bell though :-( I think Breaking Bad still had a few weeks to go at that point. It was the day after Floyd/Canelo


----------



## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

LittleRed said:


> Yeah, cokes 1, Lopez 2, the urbina blowout. Just a quick primer.


Thanks @Vysotsky @LittleRed


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Hoshi said:


> Thanks @Vysotsky @LittleRed


Yeah, they got you covered on that already. Amazing thing about Napoles 147 title reign aside from being more naturally cut out for 140 is that he wasn't even in his prime for a good chunk of it.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bitch.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Hoshi said:


> Great thread.
> *James Toney.
> 
> Michael Nunn (36-0)
> ...





turbotime said:


> *Superman Roy Jones?
> 
> Bernard Hopkins (22-1) at Middleweight
> James Toney (44-0) at Super Middleweight
> ...


This is ill, son. The last two months of 2013 are "Jones and Toney Appreciation Observation"


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> This is ill, son. The last two months of 2013 are "Jones and Toney Appreciation Observation"


Makes me sad really. Imagine trying to sell fighters like Ruiz, Johnson, Jirov on film? Amazing at the time. We'll have arm chair analysts saying they weren't shit though.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Makes me sad really. Imagine trying to sell fighters like Ruiz, Johnson, Jirov on film? Amazing at the time. We'll have arm chair analysts saying they weren't shit though.


:verysad

Nunn, McCallum, Hopkins and Toney (for Jones CV) look incredible at least.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :verysad
> 
> Nunn, McCallum, Hopkins and Toney (for Jones CV) look incredible at least.


Watch Johnson vs Guthrie just before the Jones fight. But Jones didn't fight the punchers :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Watch Johnson vs Guthrie just before the Jones fight. But Jones didn't fight the punchers :lol:


I'll make it a point to watch that. Gonna be up all night anyway


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Makes me sad really. Imagine trying to sell fighters like Ruiz, Johnson, Jirov on film? Amazing at the time. We'll have arm chair analysts saying they weren't shit though.


nevermind :verysad


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

This guy still mad about Ali :lol: 

Don't you remember that tribute I made for Sal? Call it off for his sake. This has been a pretty good thread.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> This guy still mad about Ali :lol:
> 
> Don't you remember that tribute I made for Sal? Call it off for his sake. This has been a pretty good thread.


i was going in line with what he said maaaan


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Thank you.

I was mostly just trolling anyway.


----------



## ChicoTheBoy (Jun 5, 2013)

Not gonna do a whole list,

But one of my favorite fights was Casamayor and his win vs. Katsidas was one of my favorites of all time. I thought he was done multiple times in the fight before the KO.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Julio Cesar Chavez:
> 
> Meldrick Taylor 1
> Edwin Rosario
> ...


Rosario was a P4P guy at the time as well. People see the destruction of him, but he was actually favored to win. 135 JCC was a nasty skilled MF.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> Julio Cesar Chavez:
> 
> Meldrick Taylor 1
> Edwin Rosario
> ...


surprised to see Azabache ahead of Uncle Roger

great fight too. good inside action


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

MGS said:


> surprised to see Azabache ahead of Uncle Roger
> 
> great fight too. good inside action


Was also thinking of Uncle Roger, but Azabache was very highly regarded around that time, and was favored to win and he would go on and give another ATG in Azumah Nelson a very tough fight after.

Plus, the Azabache fight was pretty much the fight which put Julio on the map.

and yeah, it was a great fight indeed. One of my all time favorites.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Was also thinking of Uncle Roger, but Azabache was very highly regarded around that time, and was favored to win and he would go on and give another ATG in Azumah Nelson a very tough fight after.
> 
> Plus, the Azabache fight was pretty much the fight which put Julio on the map.
> 
> and yeah, it was a great fight indeed. One of my all time favorites.


Is it true Chavez trained on beer and avocados? :yep


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Is it true Chavez trained on beer and avocados? :yep


No clue, but if thats the case, his ATG status rises up! :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> No clue, but if thats the case, his ATG status rises up! :lol:


I don't think Mexico will ever top him, and that isn't because it hasn't historically and consistently turned out great talent. In an ability/H2H/On film sense, JCC is a Top 10 ATG. He fought the best of his time, even when he was both clearly faded (Whitaker) and past it (DLH x2, Tsyzu). He was great at a lot of things, but as with most fighters there's always something I really dig and for him it's that pure, almost unmatchable infighting skill.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Azabache was very highly regarded around that time, and was favored to win and he would go on and give another ATG in Azumah Nelson a very tough fight after.


I'd say you could easily claim that Azabache won the first fight against Azumah.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> I'd say you could easily claim that Azabache won the first fight against Azumah.


Yes but then it totally screws up my idea of Nelson only having lost to ATG Sanchez when he met Whitaker at 135.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

:lol:


----------



## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

Toney

Nunn
Jirov
McCallum 1
Barkley
Ruiz

Who would have thought a kid that had 30 amateur fights an couldnt win the ohio state fair( a tough ass competition back in the day but still) would go on to do what he did. When im old an people ask who the best fighter ive ever seen it will always be jt. He was more natural a fighter than floyd, roy and pernell, an had nowhere near the early schooling and pedigrees they had. an arguably had as impressive a career as them imo. Dont know why people rate hopkins over himeither. Roy had one an out at heavy, james was a 5'9 bloated former middle who camped out an stayed at heavy in a era of huge heavys, james was cut from a different cloth


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Brnxhands said:


> Toney
> 
> Nunn
> Jirov
> ...


:deal

Reggie Johnson quality too

I thought you were dead or something son :lol: Shit I need a break from this place like that. Forum addiction :-(


----------



## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

lol yeah man I hear you. I have a lot going on over here lately , family shit an other stress all good though. a break will do your mind right. reading this site makes me wanna kill somebody sometime


Hands of Iron said:


> :deal
> 
> Reggie Johnson quality too
> 
> I thought you were dead or something son :lol: Shit I need a break from this place like that. Forum addiction :-(


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Brnxhands said:


> lol yeah man I hear you. I have a lot going on over here lately , family shit an other stress all good though. a break will do your mind right. reading this site makes me wanna kill somebody sometime


Toney's probably got a trio of wins that could easily compete for being the best of the last couple decades-plus (1990-on). :yep


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Did you have him winning McCallum 2 electric boogaloo HoI?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

LittleRed said:


> Did you have him winning McCallum 2 electric boogaloo HoI?


Nope, that's a McCallum win for me.

I had Toney taking the first though by a couple rounds. If he'd been credited with that KD then he would've took it officially.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

A lot of my favourite fighters really don't have great resumes.

Myung Woo Yuh, Orlando Canizales, Gerry Penalosa, etc. 

Sigh.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> A lot of my favourite fighters really don't have great resumes.
> 
> Myung Woo Yuh, Orlando Canizales, Gerry Penalosa, etc.
> 
> Sigh.


MAB won all three fights. We're good Addie.


----------



## shenmue (Aug 4, 2012)

Maidana

1.Ortiz
2.Lopez
3.Karass
4.Morales
5.Cayo

he needs some more big names on his record, came close vs Khan and IMO beat Kotelnik but i can't put that on the list because its officially a loss. Hopefully he KO's the Problem on DEC 14th. only real blemish was his really poor performance vs Devon but he had trainer problems (no main trainer for last 4 weeks of camp and on fight night) and he was in poor shape. Garcia and Ariza are and will do a good job on him for future fights.


----------



## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

His skill set was elite and his toughness was elite. Hell there still tryin to knock him out. Its rare to have that combination of skill and toughness. Best of my era. I didnt see his fight he had in the uk but heard he got robbed. damn shame even it was a meaningless fight.


Hands of Iron said:


> Toney's probably got a trio of wins that could easily compete for being the best of the last couple decades-plus (1990-on). :yep


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> MAB won all three fights. We're good Addie.


You can call me Pedderrs, you cunt.

Do you remember that crazy bastard Bill_Butcher? Scottish lad? He still tries to convince people that Morales put on a clinic in the rematch. I think he had Morales winning by at least 4 rounds.


----------



## IsaL (Jun 5, 2013)

*OSCAR DE LA HOYA

*1. *Fernando Vargas
*Although at the time Vargas was my 2nd favorite fighter, and it was a bitter sweet fight, the fight had everything a boxing fan could ask for. Skills, bruteness, real bad blood, drama, competiveness, doubt, and a KO.

2. *Pernell Whitaker
*Oscar De La Hoya was the challenger moving up in weight and fighting the P4P#1 or 2 fighter, and true reigning WW champion. Whitaker is an ATG with a style to trouble anyone, especially DLH who doesn't excel against defensive minded fighters, but his heart, and relentlesness neutralized Whitaker's great and sometimes underrated offesnse, allowing himself to land the more compelling punches.

3. *Genaro Hernandez* (RIP)
The Battle for Los Angeles. Oscar De La Hoya up and coming against undefeated champ El Chicanito. Hernandez was talking a lot leading up to the fight, be littleing De La Hoya who clearly established superiority in their bout, and not only beat Hernandez but made him quit.

4. *Rafael Ruelas
*I'm not sure if De La Hoya was the favorite in this fight, but even if he was there was a lot of questions unanswered, and Ruelas posed his biggest challenege and threat up until that time. Both big lightweights, Ruelas perhaps having the upper-hand in pro experience and light weight IBF champion. Oscar BLASTED him away for an easy KO win.

5. *Felix Trinidad
*Oscar fought an almost flawless fight and was robbed. The only close rounds were rounds 4, and 10. I gave Oscar round 10. The only clear rounds for Tito were 11th and 12th. Oscar demonstrated his superiority, his ability to box, and his incredible and often underrated handspeed and foot work. In that fight he boxed as good as some of the top pure boxers in the sport imo.


----------



## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

Vysotsky said:


> *Freddie Steele
> 
> *Fred Apostoli MW Champion
> Ken Overlin MW Champion
> ...


Fantastic. :clap:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Brnxhands said:


> His skill set was elite and his toughness was elite. Hell there still tryin to knock him out. Its rare to have that combination of skill and toughness. Best of my era. I didnt see his fight he had in the uk but heard he got robbed. damn shame even it was a meaningless fight.


You've been missing out man, it's been like James Toney month here thanks to my relentless hijacking of threads.



Pedderrs said:


> You can call me Pedderrs, you cunt.
> 
> Do you remember that crazy bastard Bill_Butcher? Scottish lad? He still tries to convince people that Morales put on a clinic in the rematch. I think he had Morales winning by at least 4 rounds.


I can't get used to Pedderrs though :-( You're Addie, the really knowledgable, really young looking lad with the striking resemblance to Tom Cruise. :yep

Yeah, I know Bill :lol: The ratio of Morales to MAB fans on most boxing forums is also woefully uneven. MAB is a top 3 Mexican Great in terms of ability and skills to me (along with JCC and probably Olivares). His resume is pretty damn good as well.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> You've been missing out man, it's been like James Toney month here thanks to my relentless hijacking of threads.
> 
> I can't get used to Pedderrs though :-( You're Addie, the really knowledgable, really young looking lad with the striking resemblance to Tom Cruise. :yep
> 
> Yeah, I know Bill :lol: The ratio of Morales to MAB fans on most boxing forums is also woefully uneven. MAB is a top 3 Mexican Great in terms of ability and skills to me (along with JCC and probably Olivares). His resume is pretty damn good as well.


You're trying to make me happy tonight, aren't you? First you tell me MAB won all three of his fights with bitter rival Erik Morales and now you say he's among the top three Mexicans of all time in terms of ability.

I do pretty much agree with you though. In terms of ability, the best Mexican fighters of all time in my mind were JCC, Olivares, MAB, JMM, and Saldivar. I've not got a lot of footage of Saldivar, but what I do have is very impressive. He was good.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> You're trying to make me happy tonight, aren't you? First you tell me MAB won all three of his fights with bitter rival Erik Morales and now you say he's among the top three Mexicans of all time in terms of ability.
> 
> I do pretty much agree with you though. In terms of ability, the best Mexican fighters of all time in my mind were JCC, Olivares, MAB, JMM, and Saldivar. I've not got a lot of footage of Saldivar, but what I do have is very impressive. He was good.


Perhaps, and your sigh gave me the idea to make things a bit more upbeat but I'm actually being honest in regards to MAB vs Morales and his abilities. Definitely things I've said before.

On another note, do you find it irritating when people try to write off say JCC's record by saying his best win over someone like Meldrick Taylor wasnt a "HOF or ATG" even though the fighter he was in the ring with that night was an Elite talent, properly rated P4P and probably actually better than a great number of scalps that have been had over 'name' guys? This is part of my plight with say Toney KO11 Nunn. Rosario is another underrated guy these days, hellacious puncher with some damn good skills, rightly favored with JCC going to 135. I didnt have him beating Camacho I dont think, but he fucked him up for life. Just crushed Livingstone Bramble prior to the Chavez fight as well and he was completely dismantled and taken apart.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Perhaps, and your sigh gave me the idea to make things a bit more upbeat but I'm actually being honest in regards to MAB vs Morales and his abilities. Definitely things I've said before.
> 
> On another note, do you find it irritating when people try to write off say JCC's record by saying his best win over someone like Meldrick Taylor wasnt a "HOF or ATG" even though the fighter he was in the ring with that night was an Elite talent, properly rated P4P and probably actually better than a great number of scalps that have been had over 'name' guys? This is part of my plight with say Toney KO11 Nunn. Rosario is another underrated guy these days, hellacious puncher with some damn good skills, rightly favored with JCC gong


I think Arguello and Chavez are in the same boat in terms of resume. They both tore through the divisions beating very good fighters but who aren't considered to be among the best the divisions have seen. Guys like Juan LaPorte, Alfredo Escalera, Jose Luis Ramirez, Edwin Rosario, Ray Mancini, etc. The impressive thing about these two fighters isn't necessarily any single victory but rather the consistency they showed to repeatedly clean out division after division. Arguello cleared out 126lbs to 135lbs whereas JCC dominated between 130-140lbs. They fought and beat everyone put in front of them. To continually win Boxing matches at the highest level over a 8-10 year period is arguably more impressive than just having 2-3 big names.

And yes, Toney's win over Nunn and JCC's over Taylor is arguably as good as it gets. Both were elite level talents, among the best fighters on the planet, when they were defeated. Perhaps what is even more impressive about those two particular wins also is that both Nunn and Taylor probably put in arguably their best performances but still lost. Perhaps Nunn was better against Tate, but then again Tate was no Toney.


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Consistency. Bores people. Carlos Ortiz anyone?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> I think Arguello and Chavez are in the same boat in terms of resume. They both tore through the divisions beating very good fighters but who aren't considered to be among the best the divisions have seen. Guys like Juan LaPorte, Alfredo Escalera, Jose Luis Ramirez, Edwin Rosario, Ray Mancini, etc. The impressive thing about these two fighters isn't necessarily any single victory but rather the consistency they showed to repeatedly clean out division after division. Arguello cleared out 126lbs to 135lbs whereas JCC dominated between 130-140lbs. They fought and beat everyone put in front of them. To continually win Boxing matches at the highest level over a 8-10 year period is arguably more impressive than just having 2-3 big names.


At the end of the day, I _do_ agree here. For the fun of the forum experience and depending on which fighters I'm going on about I tend to roll with and emphasize whatever is convenient. :lol: The truth is when I'm taking part of debates and what not over greatness or H2H ability I can talk endlessly about it for days but I'm really not looking to reach a definitive conclusion, I'd rather leave it open ended and return later to it all over again. At least where my favorite fighters or topics are concerned.



> And yes, Toney's win over Nunn and JCC's over Taylor is arguably as good as it gets. Both were elite level talents, among the best fighters on the planet, when they were defeated. Perhaps what is even more impressive about those two particular wins also is that both Nunn and Taylor probably put in arguably their best performances but still lost. Perhaps Nunn was better against Tate, but then again Tate was no Toney.


There ya go! :happy :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

LittleRed said:


> Consistency. Bores people. Carlos Ortiz anyone?


But Chavez does have great top wins, against fighters who were in great form at weights they were quite comfortable and proven.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

LittleRed said:


> Consistency. Bores people. Carlos Ortiz anyone?


Carlos Ortiz, around 40th all time for me. 
Laguna 
Ramos
Elorde
Locche (clear victory)
Loi

His competition were just awesome, not forgetting guys like Bizarro, Lane, Brown. It was just a very solid era!


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

I think Ortiz had 16 consecutive fights against ranked opposition. That's mind boggling.


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> But Chavez does have great top wins, against fighters who were in great form at weights they were quite comfortable and proven.


Chavez beat nothing but 64 tijuana cab drivers and 21 tomato cans. A face first, no skill brawler, inaccurate punches and single shots. Overrated @Pedderrs knows.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> A lot of my favourite fighters really don't have great resumes.
> Myung Woo Yuh, Orlando Canizales, Gerry Penalosa, etc.
> Sigh.


Great resumes are overrated.

Mr. Yuh doesn't need a great resume.

He is the great resume.

He is the greatest most dominant light flyweight of all time.

Monzon wishes he was as cool as Mr.Yuh.

Yuh-Murillo is the most brutal vicious KO ever.

Mr.Yuh never ducked anyone - ATG fighters ducked Mr.Yuh.

The Merciless Master of flies - that's his resume.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Carlos Ortiz, around 40th all time for me.
> Ramos
> Brown. It was just a very solid era!


I'm not sure about Ramos instead of Brown.

Ramos was an excellent fighter but his best days were at feather.

Old Bones was old and past-prime but he was the defending champion and a career lightweight.

By the way, just found the footage of the controversial Ortiz - Sugar Ramos 1:


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

Jersey Joe Walcott

1. Ezzard Charles 
2. Joe Louis? :smile
3. Jimmy Bivins
4. Harold Johnson?
5. Joey Maxim

I really like his style but I don't really know a whole about him. I'm sure one of you historians will find some atg/contender i missed out on :yep


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

LittleRed said:


> Chavez beat nothing but 64 tijuana cab drivers and 21 tomato cans. A face first, no skill brawler, inaccurate punches and single shots. Overrated @*Pedderrs* knows.


WADMF


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

LittleRed said:


> Chavez beat nothing but 64 tijuana cab drivers and 21 tomato cans. A face first, no skill brawler, inaccurate punches and single shots.





Hands of Iron said:


> Rosario is another underrated guy these days, hellacious puncher with some damn good skills, rightly favored with JCC going to 135. I didnt have him beating Camacho I dont think, but he fucked him up for life. Just crushed Livingstone Bramble prior to the Chavez fight as well and he was completely dismantled and taken apart.


LittleRed knows his boxing.

Chavez was terrified of Rosario's power - he switched to pure boxing mode as soon as Rosario touched him with a jab.
Pathetic Wlad-like performance.

Akinobu "Yakuza Enforcer" Hiranaka crushed Rosario in 1 round. Easily.

Hiranaka-san was a true warrior.

Chavez was a pale imitation of Carlos Maussa.


----------



## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

You actually had me for a second.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

fists of fury said:


> You actually had me for a second.


Lester is a real jokester.

His knowledge impresses me though.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> You're trying to make me happy tonight, aren't you? First you tell me MAB won all three of his fights with bitter rival Erik Morales and now you say he's among the top three Mexicans of all time in terms of ability.
> 
> I do pretty much agree with you though. In terms of ability, the best Mexican fighters of all time in my mind were JCC, Olivares, MAB, JMM, and Saldivar. I've not got a lot of footage of Saldivar, but what I do have is very impressive. He was good.


JCC, Olivares, Finito, Saldivar, and Sanchez for me.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Chavez is a Top 10 ATG where ability and skills are concerned. As far as I'm concerned.
@Zopilote I have no idea why you disagree with this so strongly. We've already laid out all of the reasons. Whitaker's people didn't want to see him in the late 80s.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Chavez is a Top 10 ATG where ability and skills are concerned. As far as I'm concerned.
> 
> @Zopilote I have no idea why you disagree with this so strongly. We've already laid out all of the reasons. Whitaker's people didn't want to see him in the late 80s.


Don't disagree with that at all.

Around 87-88ish, there was a very good chance Julio could of gotten then win IMO.

But the early 90s Pea would edge him out IMO.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Don't disagree with that at all.
> 
> Around 87-88ish, there was a very good chance Julio could of gotten then win IMO.
> 
> But the early 90s Pea would edge him out IMO.


Still a very difficult fight. Whitaker's legs were also fresher and he fought off the backfoot a lot more often at 135, was at his own peak there but god damn Julio looked comparably slowed and lethargic by late 1993. The KOs of Haugen and Ali prior to were nice touches though. Julio must have had one hell of a Summer 1993. I have to think it would be much more competitive just based on how much better Chavez was in the mid-to-late 80s -- Pernell still wasn't showing any truly bad slippage by the time they fought.

EDIT: See @MEXAMELAC I can keep it real.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Not that they went about it in the greatest of ways :lol: Duva and Whitaker had people from the WBC approaching them at the weigh-in of the first Ramirez fight trying to force them to sign an agreement to meet Chavez if he won. Fuck, it would've been so much better though.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Not that they went about it in the greatest of ways :lol: Duva and Whitaker had people from the WBC approaching them at the weigh-in of the first Ramirez fight trying to force them to sign an agreement to meet Chavez if he won. Fuck, it would've been so much better though.


How about OLIVARES KO2 Ramirez...........................


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> JCC, Olivares, Finito, Saldivar, and Sanchez for me.


Finito did look pretty good against the competition available to him, but no better than MAB looked against the likes of Enrique Sanchez or Jesus Salud. Lopez made a career out of fighting opponents on a comparable level to those two.

He should have made the jump to Light Flyweight much earlier than he did whilst the division was bursting with talent.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

adamcanavan said:


> Carl Froch:
> Bute
> Pascal
> Kessler
> ...


:deal


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Finito did look pretty good against the competition available to him, but no better than MAB looked against the likes of Enrique Sanchez or Jesus Salud. Lopez made a career out of fighting opponents on a comparable level to those two.
> 
> He should have made the jump to Light Flyweight much earlier than he did whilst the division was bursting with talent.


Of course.

But despite the competition he had, Finito's skills were still there...His feints, counters, footwork, combinations, parrying, ability to fight off the back and front foot, defense, accuracy, ect, ect, ect....Dude was textbook perfect.

Barrera is high up there with the lot tho, no doubt. :good


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

LMR - The H2H-beast.

In no order:

Griffith x4
Paret x2
Carter x2
Cokes
Benton


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Will get round to this for Saad


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Kamikaze Harada.

In no order:

Jofre x2
Pone Kingpetch x2
Ebihara
Rudkin
Famechon

Now that's a resume.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Saldivar, Saldivar, Saldivar


Chucho Castillo.

Olivares
Herrera x2
Rose
Medel
Pimentel

And that's a resume of a real underrated fighter.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Saldivar, Saldivar, Saldivar


:lol:


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Saldivar x 3

the fuck? :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Saldivar x 3
> 
> the fuck? :lol:


Howard Winstone x 3

"I'll never lose to a whiteboy." -- Vicente Saldivar



Vicente Saldivar said:


> Fili-Box is a disgrace.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Howard Winstone x 3
> 
> "I'll never lose to a whiteboy." -- Vicente Saldivar


:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

Saldivar a G!!

well played, my friend.


----------



## sweet_scientist (Jun 16, 2013)

Based on fights we have on film:

Kid Gavilan


Billy Graham III - Edged out a supremely skilled Billy Graham who put on a great performance himself
Gil Turner - Detonated a wrecking ball that was ripping through the welterweight division
Chuck Davey - Totally outclassed an up and comer with solid boxing ability (and a lot of hype too)
Carmen Basilio - Not Kid's best performance and I think he was starting to tail off here, but a quality win over a quality foe
Johnny Bratton II - Declared a draw, but Kid beat Johnny down. Could have put their third fight, which was an annihilation, but I prefer this one where I think both men performed better


Buddy McGirt


Simon Brown - Simon was ready to be taken, but no one expected one of the best boxing displays ever seen
Frankie Warren II - Revenge fight which was handled in one sided fashion
Tony Baltazar - Bar a knockdown, Buddy was pretty flawless again against this big hitter
Patrizio Oliva - Buddy showing Oliva that this ain't the Olympics
Genaro Leon - Buddy had to dig deep to survive this Margarito-eque brute. Dominated the fight, but had some scary moments late.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

sweet_scientist said:


> Based on fights we have on film:
> 
> Kid Gavilan
> 
> ...


Awesome stuff.

Gavilan-Graham is a skills showcase galore. Pretty underrated welter, and probably worthy of being in the all-time 'chin' talk too. Favorite performance is him taking apart an undefeated Turner in his hometown. No robberies that night.  Keed cleaned house in the early '50s welter scene and taking ability into account as well, it's hard for me to see him as anything less than the #2 or #3 guy there, all-time. Robinson's best win(s) by some distance I'd think.


----------



## sweet_scientist (Jun 16, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Awesome stuff.
> 
> Gavilan-Graham is a skills showcase galore. Pretty underrated welter, and probably worthy of being in the all-time 'chin' talk too. Favorite performance is him taking apart an undefeated Turner in his hometown. No robberies that night.  Keed cleaned house in the early '50s welter scene and taking ability into account as well, it's hard for me to see him as anything less than the #2 or #3 guy there, all-time. Robinson's best win(s) by some distance I'd think.


Cheers mate. Gavilan was indeed fantastic. One of the best welters ever for sure.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> I wanna know what Kalambay is
> I want you to show me
> I wanna feel what Kalambay is
> I know you can show me
> Aaaah woah-oh-ooh


Joey Archer:

Griffith x2
Tiger
Carter
Mims
Monon

Honorable mention: Gaylord Barnes - two times.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

:rofl

Kalambay is from the Congo, right? Yeah, I'm not sure I do. :scaredas:


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Kalambay is from the Congo, right?


Kalambay is a 100% Italian.

Just like Hagler.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

_*Gerry "Slicker than Toney" Penalosa
*_
1. Jhonny Gonzalez
2. Hiroshi Kawashima
3. Ratanachai Sor Vorapin
4. Tomas Rojas
5. Rolando Pascua


----------



## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

Golovkin

1. Macklin - Should have been given a decision against Sturm, strong showing against Martinez. Decent fringe world class / European level boxer was utterly destroyed in 3 rounds by a rampaging Golovkin.
2. Rosado - Golovkin whilst suffering with flu beat Rosado down for 7 rounds, would go on to give Quillin hell fighting back from an early knockdown to wobble and bully the WBC champion before being stopped under questionable circumstances ( i agreed with the stoppage)
3. Proksa - Solid fringe world class / European level boxer with highly unorthodox style, holds a world class victory over Sylvester but then suffered an upset loss to Kerry Hope, bounced back to stop Hope but was then destroyed and broken down by Golovkin over five rounds.
4. Stevens - Former super middleweight who came in with a big punching reputation but has largely failed to live upto early expectation. Made a lot of noise in the build upto the fight as did his fans. Showed resistance for the first couple of rounds before a heavy knockdown all but finished his challenge. 
5. Ishida - Solid Journeyman, has a big victory over Kirkland, other than that he has lost every time he has stepped upto world level.

Conclusion is that Golovkin needs the bigger fights.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Is this Nunn that I'm feeling
> Is this the Nunn that I've been searching for
> Is this Nunn or am I dreaming
> This must be Nunn
> ...


Check this resume out.

A.Gomez:

Cervantes
Dejesus
Saijo
D. Hawkins
Smecca


----------



## sweet_scientist (Jun 16, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Check this resume out.
> 
> A.Gomez:
> 
> ...


His nick name was 'cocina casera' :yep


----------



## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> @Phantom *I think Monzon gets underrated on Great Chin lists *personally considering the absolute bangers he was in against as well as having a career that spanned 100 bouts and 0 stoppage losses. Once he got rolling, he didn't know how to lose.


And this amazes me....the guy had a world class set of whiskers and unbelieveable recooperative powers...but Duran and others like him who got starched in their careers always get recognition...


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Chartchai "No Muay Thai" Chionoi:

McGowan x2
Burruni
Seki
Hanagata
Alacran x2


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

And his father - Pone G:

Harada
Perez x2
Ebihara
Seki
Noguchi


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl
> 
> Saldivar a G!!
> 
> well played, my friend.


:lol:

Not ready for this thread to be dead.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

DOM5153 said:


> Golovkin
> 
> 1. Macklin - Should have been given a decision against Sturm, strong showing against Martinez. Decent fringe world class / European level boxer was utterly destroyed in 3 rounds by a rampaging Golovkin.
> 2. Rosado - Golovkin whilst suffering with flu beat Rosado down for 7 rounds, would go on to give Quillin hell fighting back from an early knockdown to wobble and bully the WBC champion before being stopped under questionable circumstances ( i agreed with the stoppage)
> ...


Gotten a little better.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Jimmy Young:

1. Foreman
2. Norton
3. Lyle
4. Ali 
5. Shavers
Honorable mention: Marvin Stinson & Michael Dokes.

Funny how if he had been given credit for his victories over Norton, Ali and Shavers his perception as a heavyweight champ would be completely different. There is no argument for Ali winning vs Young, and Norton didn't really do enough either. Based off all of the accounts I've read of Young vs Shavers, Young handily beat him.


----------



## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Gotten a little better.


Indeed, his resume now looks solid but unspectacular, hopefully that will change if he can get the likes of Cotto and Canelo in the ring. I cant remember the last time i broke down a post like that, think ive got lazy as of recent.:smile


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

DOM5153 said:


> Indeed, his resume now looks solid but unspectacular, hopefully that will change if he can get the likes of Cotto and Canelo in the ring. I cant remember the last time i broke down a post like that, think ive got lazy as of recent.:smile


Totally feel you, bro. I haven't really talked boxing since around the time this thread was created. :lol: Only just recently in the Floyd/Pac subforum, but not really discussing only them.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Rigondeaux

Donaire




Agbeko
Cordoba
Ramos
Amagasa


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Hands of Iron said:


> Chavez is a Top 10 ATG where ability and skills are concerned. As far as I'm concerned.
> 
> @*Zopilote* I have no idea why you disagree with this so strongly. We've already laid out all of the reasons. Whitaker's people didn't want to see him in the late 80s.


Are you talking about fighting Chavez? I remember talking to this dude several years back on Youtube and he mentioned that he had a boxing Mag from the 80's (not sure if it was RING), where they talked to Duva about Pernell. He told me that they asked him about a fight vs Chavez and that his response was "Pernell is not ready for Chavez". I never forgot the quote. They eventually went with Taylor instead. This cat knew a shit load about Chavez and just 80's boxing in general. He even mentioned that you could buy the Mag online. I've been trying to look for this dude on YT but I can't find him. I think his account was cancelled. I wanted to find out more on that.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Chacal said:


> Rigondeaux
> 
> Donaire
> 
> ...


Lousy fuck Agbeko got Rigo booted from HBO.

"Let's kill eachother in the ring"

:rolleyes



MEXAMELAC said:


> Are you talking about fighting Chavez? I remember talking to this dude several years back on Youtube and he mentioned that he had a boxing Mag from the 80's (not sure if it was RING), where they talked to Duva about Pernell. He told me that they asked him about a fight vs Chavez and that his response was "Pernell is not ready for Chavez". I never forgot the quote. They eventually went with Taylor instead. This cat knew a shit load about Chavez and just 80's boxing in general. He even mentioned that you could buy the Mag online. I've been trying to look for this dude on YT but I can't find him. I think his account was cancelled. I wanted to find out more on that.


Yes, that's what I'm on about. I used to have a few newspaper articles on that bit. Whenever I fall out with boxing from time-to-time, I either lose or trash stuff. Just not caring. It certainly wasn't Chavez that held it up from happening and to the point, it would make absolutely no sense to end up fighting him anyway as a lesser version of himself at welterweight and it wasn't like, "Oh I lost my 0, now I can take the Whitaker challenge" No. He still had it, was as popular as ever and had everything to lose. Taking the Meldrick Taylor fight (who was Top 5 P4P at the time as well) was just ballsy as shit too. Don King was/is a slimy cunt, and JCC was his boy, but he wasn't ever really averse to putting his marquee fighters in with the best.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> _*Gerry "Slicker than Toney" Penalosa
> *_
> 1. Jhonny Gonzalez
> 2. Hiroshi Kawashima
> ...


:rofl

Where have you gone, Addie?


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Hands of Iron said:


> Lousy fuck Agbeko got Rigo booted from HBO.
> 
> "Let's kill eachother in the ring"
> 
> ...


True, true. What's your opinion of Finito? Where would you place him on a Top 10 Mex list? It seems he isn't brought up often. Maybe because he was small :bart.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> I used to have a few newspaper articles on that bit


Happened in 1987-1988, if I'm not mistaken.

Before Pea got robbed against Ramirez.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

MEXAMELAC said:


> True, true. What's your opinion of Finito? Where would you place him on a Top 10 Mex list? It seems he isn't brought up often. Maybe because he was small :bart.


Around 10, brother. It's just a resume issue, I think he was magnificent in terms of ability.



Lester1583 said:


> Happened in 1987-1988, if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> Before Pea got robbed against Ramirez.


Can't really blame him tbh, was Whitaker even considered _Whitaker_ at that point? I mean Duva would go about changing his mind in a hurry sometimes. He said the same thing about Holyfield fighting Tyson, and then they were all but demanding the fight within a year. I don't think for a second Whitaker himself had any doubts, I believe Julio quickly jumped to 140 for a second clash with Uncle Roger (who had a title), whilst Pea wanted to avenge his "loss" to Ramirez.

EDIT: And that was put forth by someone on ESB many years ago, as a theory or sorts, and one I always bought as most likely scenario.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Hands of Iron said:


> Around 10, brother. It's just a resume issue, I think he was magnificent in terms of ability.
> 
> Can't really blame him tbh, was Whitaker even considered _Whitaker_ at that point? I mean Duva would go about changing his mind in a hurry sometimes. He said the same thing about Holyfield fighting Tyson, and then they were all but demanding the fight within a year. I don't think for a second Whitaker himself had any doubts, I believe Julio quickly jumped to 140 for a second clash with Uncle Roger (who had a title), whilst Pea wanted to avenge his "loss" to Ramirez.
> 
> EDIT: And that was put forth by someone on ESB many years ago, as a theory or sorts, and one I always bought as most likely scenario.


Oh shit seriously? Do you have a Top 10 off the top? I'd like to see who you have. :deal


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

MEXAMELAC said:


> Oh shit seriously? Do you have a Top 10 off the top? I'd like to see who you have. :deal


Sure thing.

01. Chucho Castillo @Zopilote
02. Vicente Fernandez
03. Kid Azteca
04. Baby Arizmen...

:lol:

So long as you don't hold me to it. This actually used to be harder than my cock on utterly unnecessary doses of sildenafil.

Julio Cesar Chavez [GMOAT]

Ruben Olivares
Vicente Saldivar
Salvador Sanchez

Miguel Canto
Juan Manuel Marquez
Marco Antonio Barrera
Erik Morales

Carlos Zarate
Ricardo Lopez

Not _solely_ on record even though I used it to downgrade Finito and the brackets aren't intended to illustrate a difference in class per se, if just means that I'll routinely swap the orders around for the fighters listed within them and why I'm not doing any sort of definitive numerical order. Olivares and Saldivar is really interesting, though I like Ruben at his best. Vicente was dominantly consistent. I thought MAB won all three fights too but am biased. @Bogotazo will likely throw a fit over this as I'm sure he rates Juan no lower than #2 . Top 5 abouts is a great achievement here though and he's etched with the other two amigos for cosmetic purposes, he's beat Pacquiao a bazillion times at various stages.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Hands of Iron said:


> Sure thing.
> 
> 01. Chucho Castillo @*Zopilote*
> 02. Vicente Fernandez
> ...


:lol:

Yeah It's a tough list. That's why I rarely attempt to do any list for any sport. I just rather see what everyone else has and then I'll start adding or omitting names and then file them in my head. The Barrera/Morales/Marquez is always tough. That unfinished list at the top has some good ones also. Especially Vicente Fernandez lol.
@Bogotazo says Marquez beat Bradley though...:smile


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

MEXAMELAC said:


> :lol:
> 
> Yeah It's a tough list. That's why I rarely attempt to do any list for any sport. I just rather see what everyone else has and then I'll start adding or omitting names and then file them in my head. The Barrera/Morales/Marquez is always tough. That unfinished list at the top has some good ones also. Especially Vicente Fernandez lol.
> @Bogotazo says Marquez beat Bradley though...:smile


Indeed he does. :yep


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Sure thing.
> 
> 01. Chucho Castillo @Zopilote
> 02. Vicente Fernandez
> ...


Excellent list! Almost mirrors mine, except I have Saldivar at 2 and Olivares at 3, and Erik at 6, Marco at 7...at least for now that's how my list is. :yep


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Excellent list! Almost mirrors mine, except I have Saldivar at 2 and Olivares at 3, and Erik at 6, Marco at 7...at least for now that's how my list is. :yep


I still find it silly difficult, dude.

I really want to get to the bottom of these matters though too, with legit sources. We talked about this shit back in 2012:



MEXAMELAC said:


> Are you talking about fighting Chavez? I remember talking to this dude several years back on Youtube and he mentioned that he had a boxing Mag from the 80's (not sure if it was RING), where they talked to Duva about Pernell. He told me that they asked him about a fight vs Chavez and that his response was "Pernell is not ready for Chavez". I never forgot the quote. They eventually went with Taylor instead. This cat knew a shit load about Chavez and just 80's boxing in general. He even mentioned that you could buy the Mag online. I've been trying to look for this dude on YT but I can't find him. I think his account was cancelled. I wanted to find out more on that.





Hands of Iron said:


> Yes, that's what I'm on about. I used to have a few newspaper articles on that bit. Whenever I fall out with boxing from time-to-time, I either lose or trash stuff. Just not caring. It certainly wasn't Chavez that held it up from happening and to the point, it would make absolutely no sense to end up fighting him anyway as a lesser version of himself at welterweight and it wasn't like, "Oh I lost my 0, now I can take the Whitaker challenge" No. He still had it, was as popular as ever and had everything to lose. Taking the Meldrick Taylor fight (who was Top 5 P4P at the time as well) was just ballsy as shit too. Don King was/is a slimy cunt, and JCC was his boy, but he wasn't ever really averse to putting his marquee fighters in with the best.





Lester1583 said:


> Happened in 1987-1988, if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> Before Pea got robbed against Ramirez.





Hands of Iron said:


> Can't really blame him tbh, was Whitaker even considered _Whitaker_ at that point? I mean Duva would go about changing his mind in a hurry sometimes. He said the same thing about Holyfield fighting Tyson, and then they were all but demanding the fight within a year. I don't think for a second Whitaker himself had any doubts, I believe Julio quickly jumped to 140 for a second clash with Uncle Roger (who had a title), whilst Pea wanted to avenge his "loss" to Ramirez.
> 
> EDIT: And that was put forth by someone on ESB many years ago, as a theory or sorts, and one I always bought as most likely scenario.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I still find it silly difficult, dude.
> 
> I really want to get to the bottom of these matters though too, with legit sources. We talked about this shit back in 2012:


Respect for having Canto in the top 5, where he belongs.

Most mexican boxing fans I know don't have him ranked nearly that high.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> sources





> Evander Holyfield remembered how his pal Pernell Whitaker, now a lightweight champion, was told by a World Boxing Council official that if he dethroned Jose Luis Ramirez in Paris in 1988, he next had to fight Julio Cesar Chavez with Don King as the promoter.
> 
> "If you don't," the W.B.C. official said, "there's no fight."
> 
> ...


http://www.nytimes.com/1990/12/20/sports/sports-of-the-times-holyfield-a-stand-up-champion.html


----------



## Azadi (Jan 28, 2014)

*Terry norris *
leonard
mugabi 
curry 
brown
daniels

*khan*
maidana 
alexander 
judah 
kotelnik 
malignaggi/collazo


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Respect for having Canto in the top 5, where he belongs.
> 
> Most mexican boxing fans I know don't have him ranked nearly that high.


No doubt. Juan feels he should be Top 5 for his numerous wins over Manny.



Lester1583 said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/1990/12/20/sports/sports-of-the-times-holyfield-a-stand-up-champion.html


That's one of them, quality work Lester. That's actually what I was referencing here last year off memory:



Hands of Iron said:


> Not that they went about it in the greatest of ways :lol: Duva and Whitaker had people from the WBC approaching them at the weigh-in of the first Ramirez fight trying to force them to sign an agreement to meet Chavez if he won. Fuck, it would've been so much better though.


They called the WBC's bluff because there was already network money involved and it would've caused a complete shitstorm. That's not any real way to do business, though I don't see why fighting Julio - at that point the #1 lightweight in the world after the Rosario thrashing - would've been an issue if they felt he was ready for him. Hadn't Ramirez also taken up residence in France? Could've played a role in regards to the cards. And Re: the article, Chavez actually beat Ramirez for that belt to unify the WBA/WBC before vacating both and moving up for a Black Mamba II title fight at 140 while Whitaker had it out in the rematch for the empty strap he should've won the first time.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Will get round to this for Saad


:ibutt


----------



## saul_ir34 (Jun 8, 2013)

Morales-Pac I
JMM-Diaz I
Hopkins-Pavlik
Arce-Hussein
Any of the Vasquez-Marquez fights. Both favorites who killed each other.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> :ibutt


1. Conteh 1--Conteh had looked shot beforehand but put in arguably his best ever performance, giving Saad no chance but to box his way in, impossible against one of the most cultured left hands in boxing history. Alas, Saad gained a foothold and scored a few knockdowns in the 14th to get a close win in one of the most beautiful light heavyweight championship fights in history.

2. Yaqui Lopez 1--People look at the classic rematch--and rightly so--but Saad's performance in the first is one of his most disciplined. A great display of jabbing.

3. Marvin Johnson 1--A classic Saad showing here. A competitive fight that the Olympian is up in, Saad rallies in the 12th and final round, encapsulating his entire career in a few minutes and scoring a stoppage over his exhausted and broken foe.

4. Marvin Johnson 2--Both show improvements here. Johnson has punched his way to the top, showing that a KO loss over a fellow prospect on the way up doesn't mean that much in the grand scheme of things, and Saad shows he's still the better man, destroying Johnson without needing to. Tremendous shootout.

5. Ritchie Kates--Getting completely sparked early doors only to better the performance of your contemporaries says a lot about your place in the era. Saad gets crushed with an overhand right, drags himself up--ddemonstrating powers of recovery that Larry Holmes would applaud--and punches Kates to a standstill. Kates was one of the trickiest contenders of the era, and IMO--rather than Yaqui Lopez--the best 175lber of this time never to win a world title.

There are others. Saad's knockout of the very-talented Lotti Mwale is probably the best lead uppercut KO of all time. His second fight with Yaqui Lopez probably the most insane war he was ever in and his career in a nutshell. But for me, these five show the different strands of Saad's career perfectly.


----------



## Squire (May 17, 2013)

Wladimir Klitschko

Chris Byrd (1 or 2, 2 is maybe more significant)
David Haye
Sam Peter 1
Sultan Ibragimov
Alexander Povetkin

Chagaev could replace Povetkin or Ibragimov but I'd definitely have Peter 1 on the list, if Wlad wasn't the underdog going in it was a 50:50 fight at best and he picked himself up three times to win a clear decision. It was the fight that made me a fan


----------



## Kissan (May 18, 2013)

Squire said:


> Wladimir Klitschko
> 
> Chris Byrd (1 or 2, 2 is maybe more significant)
> David Haye
> ...


That list almost mirrors mine.
Byrd (1 or 2)
Peter 1
Chagaev
Haye
Povetkin


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> my cock on utterly unnecessary doses of sildenafil.





Zopilote said:


> Respect for having Canto in the top 5, where he belongs.


Is he greater than the man who was rated way higher by his contemporaries when they both were active?

Z-Machine's reign of terror was so devastating he made Tyson look like Ottke.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Is he greater than the man who was rated way higher by his contemporaries when they both were active?
> 
> Z-Machine's reign of terror was so devastating he made Tyson look like Ottke.


Canto had a more solid resume and had the better achievements at his weight class IMO.

I think its fair to rank Canto higher.


----------



## kirk (Jun 4, 2013)

Fernando Vargas 

1 - Ike (due to the manner of the win)
2 - Winky (controversial yes, but winky was an elite fighter with vast experience getting a desperate title shot, while Vargas had barely been past 7 rounds twice in his career at that point? I don't care how close it was its a damn good showing/win given the context)
3 - Castillejo (Context : Vargas was at this point already a long ways from the vargas that brought him to the world level. In fact, watching this fight was cringeworthy to see how far vargas had fallen. However, even a faded vargas beat an opponent who, while not near elite, had beaten solid fighters like Karmazin, and even after losing to vargas moved up to middleweight to be the only fighter to ever stop Sturm. Given that Vargas was past his best, and that Castillejo nicked some solid wins, I think its one of Vargas's more noteworthy wins)
4 - Campas (Context, and Manner of victory. Vargas had boxed a total of 36 rounds in 14 fights as a pro before taking on the much more experienced IBF champion, who was making the 4th or 5th defense of his title and had TKO' Marquez a handful of fights earlier. Vargas dominated the fight, outthinking and outboxing Campas until the champion said no mas) 
5 - Marquez - By default (Vargas does not have a deep resume)


----------



## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

Miguel Angel Cotto

Ricardo Torres - Two undefeated hard hitting boxer punchers going at it in what was a hellacious war. It showed Cotto is vulnerable enough to make for a dramatic show. Fights like this don't come around too often.

Zab Judah - It was Cottos boricuas vs Zab's brooklynites. The energy and excitement at the garden that night was amazing. Another teeter totter war of Zabs lightning fast uppercuts and left hands and Cottos thudding body shots. Another unforgetful battle.

Shane Mosley - Another step up for Cotto vs a young(er) Shane Mosley that showed us a new look from Cotto. We saw that he could be more disciplined and box and slug when he needed to. Timing the faster Mosley, this was a crowd pleasing, technical match between two HOF fighters.

Antonio Margito II - It was refreshing to see Cotto face the ghosts of Margarito and implement the tactical game-plan of Pedro Diaz. It was the first time you saw this side of Cotto, whom made it obvious that he felt Margarito used the plaster-of-paris-like blocks found in his gloves prior to the Mosley fight in their first fight in Las Vegas. Cotto sought to damage Margarito and targeted the already damaged eye caused by Pacquiao. Seeing Cotto stand there in the ring and stare Margarito down at the end of the fight was quite a moment.

Sergio Martinez - Cotto went into this as the underdog, being the smaller man entering a weight vs the man who dominated the MW division for years with his blazing speed and power. In his second fight with new trainer Roach, Cotto made history becoming the first Puerto Rican to win world titles in 4 weight divisions, and did so in dominant and spectacular fashion.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Canto had a more solid resume and had the better achievements at his weight class IMO.
> I think its fair to rank Canto higher.


I think it's arguable.

Zarate's resume gets underrated these days.
He wasn't rated the best fighter in the world, above Duran and Monzon, for his irresistible mustache only.

The switch-hitting Rodolfo Martinez and Ferreri were more or less on par with Oguma and Betulio.

Zamora was one of the best fighters in the world back then (even if his stock has dropped in the last decades) and Zarate unified division in a brutal fashion.

Pintor and Davila are bonafide second-tier bantam champions - along with Canizales, Chandler, Rose, etc - and Zarate beat them both and put himself in the upper echelon of bantam greats - along with Olivares, Jofre, Yamanaka, etc.

Add in contenders like Segiundo Sosa, Nestor Jimenez, Guevara and the mythical Kpalongo.

And he was utterly dominant prior to Gomez - no need for rematches, no sub-par fights.
Unlike other one-weight champions like Monzon, Galindez, Canto, Sanchez.
All other good bantams of his era had to live in his shadow.

Zarate never recovered from his first loss - and that's the biggest criticism of his career.

He was never the same fighter mentally after Gomez demolished him - he was still in his physical prime when he retired - but that Pintor performance was totally unconvincing and uncharacteristic of him.

He got mosley'd basically.

It's a good question actually.
@Flea Man
@LittleRed
@Vic
@Bill Jincock

Show some love for Z-Machine.


----------



## Indigo Pab (May 31, 2012)

Cristian Mijares

Alexander Munoz
Jose Navarro
Jorge Arce
Chatchai Sasakul
Victor Terrazas (fuck you it was a robbery)/Topo Rosas

Based on a mixture of importance, context, and his performance in those fights. A couple of them are too tight to have in a specific order and thus I didn't do so.


----------



## Bill Jincock (Jun 19, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> I think it's arguable.
> 
> Zarate's resume gets underrated these days.
> He wasn't rated the best fighter in the world, above Duran and Monzon, for his irresistible mustache only.
> ...


Zarate's standing does seem to have suffered the most of the Mexican greats in recent years, where Saldivar and Canto have gained ground.He seems to quite often get placed below the last crop of greats now...Morales, Barrera, Marquez.

Personally, i think he was a better fighter than those guys in his prime and would still rank him higher.I can see why things have changed though and that outside of the drama of actually following a destructive run like that first-hand he kind of falls down a bit.

He's a one division champ that fell away quickly after a bad loss and retired while still in his prime.Those recent greats have all hung around longer, won titles in multiple weight classes and had multiple famous great fights with the other high-profile fighters of their era.

Zarate didn't really do that, partly because at Bantam he was too dominant against the talented fighters that might have presented a worthwhile foe for a series of fights...Martinez, Davila, Zamora etc and also because the division had burned out a bit from the early 70s greats and the 80s guys were yet to really emerge.When he did fight someone that could have provided a classic series in Pintor, he was on the comeback, didn't look at his best and promptly retired in protest at the debatable decision loss.Bad idea.He could have rematched Pintor, improved and then gone after Gomez again.Maybe fight Chandler, Davila, Lujan first.

Good results\performances against those guys and hanging around for another few years of top fights could have made all the difference in his stature not fading as it seems to have.

Of course in his favour, you have to consider it was a tougher era to move about the weights in than the past 15-20 years.More excellent and potentially great bigger fighters around to fuck you up if you moved up.Gomez, Arguello etc

Gomez was his nearest rival and he turned out to be good enough to get a dominant win first time out, killing immediate chances of a series to enhance both their names with(good for Gomez though!) whereas the recent guys got someone they were pretty evenly matched with initially, which could be marketed into subsequent superfights(Barrera-Morales and Pac-Marquez, but also Morales vs Pac initially).Though Barrera still managed to get beat down twice by Jones and Pac:smile so he's a bit different.

I'm more of a H2H and ability in prime guy, so i still rate Zarate higher, but i can see why he's fallen down the pecking order a bit for some.It's the same for Chucho Castillo and Rafael Herrera(or Gilberto Roman) to me not inferior fighters to the recent greats that have surpassed them in a lot of these rankings, but i can see why they have.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Bill Jincock said:


> Zarate's standing does seem to have suffered the most of the Mexican greats in recent years, where Saldivar and Canto have gained ground.He seems to quite often get placed below the last crop of greats now...Morales, Barrera, Marquez.
> 
> Personally, i think he was a better fighter than those guys in his prime and would still rank him higher.I can see why things have changed though and that outside of the drama of actually following a destructive run like that first-hand he kind of falls down a bit.
> 
> ...


Canto or Zarate, who would you rank higher?


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Bill Jincock said:


> Personally, i think he was a better fighter than those guys in his prime and would still rank him higher.
> 
> I'm more of a H2H and ability in prime guy, so i still rate Zarate higher, but i can see why he's fallen down the pecking order a bit for some.It's the same for Chucho Castillo and Rafael Herrera(or Gilberto Roman) to me not inferior fighters to the recent greats that have surpassed them in a lot of these rankings, but i can see why they have.


One thing that rarely gets brought up is Zarate's durability - I'd say despite Olivares being the usual suspect for the weak-chinned mexican bantam great, Zarate is on par with Saldivar in that regard.
Who's chin also is somewhat questionable.

Not that they were hiding glass - and they never lost cuz of their chins but both were hurtable and potentially stoppable, in my opinion. In prime that is.
Although Saldivar was tougher mentally compared to Zarate -just declined physically rather quickly.
Barrera is closest to Zarate both mentally and chin-wise.

Zarate was a fragile technical version of Arguello.

Regarding JMM, MAB, EM and Zarate rankings.
Prime for prime Zarate looked the most complete and unbeatable fighter of the 4.
Complete maybe not the right word - more like better at dealing with wider range of styles.


----------



## Bill Jincock (Jun 19, 2012)

toss up between Canto and Zarate in an all-time Mexican list imo.I don't have a strong opinion on one over the other tbh.

I think Saldivar and Zarate had good solid chins, just probably not anything special in an all-time sense.Morales is probably the only one of all these guys that had a great chin(outside of the obvious Chavez and Sanchez who were a level above even him durability-wise), he was hit flush so often that if he hadn't he would have been down and\or wobbled a lot more.Maybe Canto did too, he was certainly tougher than someone like zapata, but he never took enough punishment to say for sure imo.


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

Some of my favourites:

*Canelo*

Lara
Trout
Angulo
Lopez
Mosely (Vazquez II maybe?)

*Maidana*

Broner
Ortiz
Morales
Lopez
Cayo

*Khan*

Alexander
Maidana
Peterson
Malignaggi
Judah

*Calzaghe*

Kessler
Hopkins
Bika
Eubank
Lacy

*Ali*

Foreman
Frazier III
Frazier II
Liston I
Norton II

*Marciano*

Moore
Walcott II
Walcott I
Louis
Charles I


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> I think it's arguable.
> 
> Zarate's resume gets underrated these days.
> He wasn't rated the best fighter in the world, above Duran and Monzon, for his irresistible mustache only.
> ...


Been ages since I watched a Zarate fight tbh. I desperately need to do a Zarate marathon to refresh my memories. I think he was better than Morales and Barrera, but not than Marquez in the rating the great mexican lists and all.


----------



## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

*Soldier Bartfield 
*Harry Greb
Jack Britton
Ted Kid Lewis
Mike Gibbons
Billy Papke

*Vicente Salvidar*
Ismael Laguna
Sugar Ramos
Johnny Famechon
Jose Legra
Howard Winstone

*Teddy Yarosz*
Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore
Lloyd Marshall
Ken Overlin
Lou Brouillard


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Vysotsky said:


> *Soldier Bartfield
> *Harry Greb
> Jack Britton
> Ted Kid Lewis
> ...


I remember you asked about this fight once, somebody finally posted on YT recently.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Is he greater than the man who was rated way higher by his contemporaries when they both were active?
> 
> Z-Machine's reign of terror was so devastating he made Tyson look like Ottke.


As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti, you've made a great case for Carlos here and it's all highly plausible mate. The top four are really the only untouchables for me. That fifth spot could be dependent on a whole lot of different angles and facets, where certain emphasis is placed by people and whatnot. Sterling stuff from Lora and yourself.


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Zarate fought few top contenders (but to be fair the Ring sometimes didn't know it's ass from its elbow in regards to little guys) but he was so dominant. Canto had several close calls, whereas Zarate worked like a bored plumber, tearing shit up left and right. And Zamora was hell on wheels.

Honestly I love them both.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti, you've made a great case for Carlos here and it's all highly plausible mate. The top four are really the only untouchables for me. That fifth spot could be dependent on a whole lot of different angles and facets, where certain emphasis is placed by people and whatnot. Sterling stuff from Lora and yourself.


Yup...Chavez, Saldivar, Olivares, Sanchez..the four kings of Mexico.


----------



## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

Vic said:


> I remember you asked about this fight once, somebody finally posted on YT recently.


Holy fuck yes, i love you, i love this place and i love all the like-minded boxing obsessed bastards who reside here. Seriously, big thanks man.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Vysotsky said:


> *Vicente Salvidar*
> Ismael Laguna
> Sugar Ramos
> Johnny Famechon
> ...





Zopilote said:


> Yup...Chavez, Saldivar, Olivares, Sanchez..the four kings of Mexico.


How badass was it for Saldivar to casually walk onto the scene after retirement, handle Legra convincingly and snatch one of his titles right back from Famechon on top of the quality-packed 1964-67 run as champion? It's a shame he got stopped by Shibata in his next fight though I love what that does for Marcel, who one-sidedly schooled him in a robbery draw in Japan. I count that in the W column for him to be honest, it's on film.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> How badass was it for Saldivar to casually walk onto the scene after retirement, handle Legra convincingly and snatch one of his titles right back from Famechon on top of the quality-packed 1964-67 run as champion?


I see what you are trying to say here but affraid to really speak your mind.

I got your back.

Yes, consistency is overrated and both Sanchez and Saldivar have better wins than Chavez.
No matter how many times you try to refresh his boxrec page with tears in your eyes.

Add in that there's not much between them H2H-wise and the whole Chavez is the GMOAT theory looks less and less convincing with each repeated viewing of the Alamodome rape.

Edit your rankings, HoI.
I won't tell anybody.

Here, I'll show you how it's done.

Repeat after me.

1. Sanchez
2. Olivares
3. Saldivar
4. El Gato

See, it's easy.

Now you do it.

And if anybody starts asking: "Surely, Chavez is a top 5 mexican fighter, brah?"
You just say to them: "Shut da fuck up or I'll kidazteka you till you love me, ******"
And they'll fuck right off.

- Till next time!


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> How badass was it for Saldivar to casually walk onto the scene after retirement, handle Legra convincingly and snatch one of his titles right back from Famechon on top of the quality-packed 1964-67 run as champion? It's a shame he got stopped by Shibata in his next fight though I love what that does for Marcel, who one-sidedly schooled him in a robbery draw in Japan. I count that in the W column for him to be honest, it's on film.


Saldivar retiring for good after Famechon would have been perfect.


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

Andy Lee:

1. Matt Korobov TKO 6
2. Brian Vera II UD 10
3. Craig McEwan TKO 10
4. Carl Daniels KO 3 (purely for the KO)
5. John Jackson KO 5 (purely for the KO)


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> I see what you are trying to say here but affraid to really speak your mind.
> 
> I got your back.
> 
> ...


:lol:

This could be framed.



Zopilote said:


> Saldivar retiring for good after Famechon would've been perfect.


He got a bit overzealous, I guess. Lester is throwing mad stones at the throne above. It's true I suppose, though I don't see a whole terrible lot really being between them myself and boxrec would be atrocious in recognizing the talent, ability and threats presented by the likes of MT and El Chapo. Taylor was sort of Nunn-ish in a way, dazzling shooting star talent that never fully manifested itself into ATG material but for a time was on the precipice of greatness when they ran into Chavez and Toney, respectively. You can't give all the credit to JCC's fists though given how he went on to perform against Aaron Davis but it was a combination of that, too many gym wars, some bad management and the general talent of the era surrounding him. Nunn was certainly better defensively but looked to be sliding just a bit by '91 whereas TNT was still on the upswing. I don't buy Rosario being some sort of shell just because he was a geriatric 24 y/o, had split with and lost a back-and-forth war with JLR, knocked the Macho out of Hector for life and crushed Bramble. The dude was packing dynamite and had exceptional boxing ability to go with. For Chavez to destroy him so thoroughly in his 135 debut is impressive as hell. Where is @TBooze with his 1980s 'P4P lists'? :yep I guarantee El Chapo was within the top six or seven at the time of that fight.

Sanchez's top wins are great too, but we'd be lying to say Gomez was anywhere near the same fighter at 126, or that he got peak a Nelson as a 13-fight novice (Azabache edged him well after IMO and we saw him against Julio). Certainly caught him off guard, was live as shit and nobody could've known what he was in for and yet he dealt with him, so no real credit taken. Danny Lopez was a damn good, legit champion with top level power, an iron will (and porous defense) who was an open book for an aggressive counter-puncher with Sal's durability and chin though with that we're just stating the obvious: Chava was on a completely different tier, but I don't think Little Red was better as a fighter than either of the aforementioned Chavez foes, in an ability sense anyway.

With that said, he's still got the H2H and Consistency arguments going for him.


----------



## mick557 (Jun 6, 2013)

Cotto

Mosley
Martinez
Margarito
Clottey
Malignaggi


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> 1. Conteh 1--Conteh had looked shot beforehand but put in arguably his best ever performance, giving Saad no chance but to box his way in, impossible against one of the most cultured left hands in boxing history. Alas, Saad gained a foothold and scored a few knockdowns in the 14th to get a close win in one of the most beautiful light heavyweight championship fights in history.
> 
> 2. Yaqui Lopez 1--People look at the classic rematch--and rightly so--but Saad's performance in the first is one of his most disciplined. A great display of jabbing.
> 
> ...


Awesome.

I need to revisit pretty much all of these.


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

JMM

1)KTFO6
2)Pac3
3)Pac1
4)Pac2
5)Chris John


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> I don't buy Rosario being some sort of shell just because he was a geriatric 24 y/o, had split with and lost a back-and-forth war with JLR, knocked the Macho out of Hector for life and crushed Bramble. The dude was packing dynamite and *had exceptional boxing ability *to go with. For Chavez to destroy him so thoroughly in his 135 debut is impressive as hell.


Ok, now you're just being tliang.



Hands of Iron said:


> I don't think Little Red was better as a fighter than either of the aforementioned Chavez foes, in an ability sense anyway.


 @LittleRed, He fuckin' said it! He fuckin' said eeet!

What you're gonna do about it?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Ok, now you're just being tliang.
> 
> @LittleRed, He fuckin' said it! He fuckin' said eeet!
> 
> What you're gonna do about it?


Don't front on the man's capable smoothness. I'm surprised you ain't bring up the wrist injury. He was supposed to lose to Bramble really, and nobody could've anticipated him being taken apart like that by Chavez. No one really did. Found Boozer's lists, he was #5 .


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> nobody could've anticipated him being taken apart like that by Chavez. No one really did.


 @Bill Jincock did.

He saw the future through Kalule's eyes.



Hands of Iron said:


> Found Boozer's lists, he was #5 .


Still not as shocking as Esparragoza at #2 .


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> @Bill Jincock did.
> 
> He saw the future through Kalule's eyes.
> 
> Still not as shocking as Esparragoza at #2 .


Better win: Martinez or Lockridge? They're always grouped close. Mario seemed to trouble almost everyone not JCC, but Lockridge had great versatility to his game. Speaking of injuries, I don't think it would've been nearly as competitive if not for Julio busting a knuckle early on. That was a different sort of performance.

@Zopilote?

FTR I'd go with Taylor, Rosario, Lockridge, Martinez, Ramirez to answer the thread question. I don't think he was all too invested in beating up his compadre though.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

@Hands of Iron

Evander Holyfield:

1. Riddick Bowe II - The first one is one of my favorite fights of all time and probably the most skill I've ever seen exhibited between two heavyweights (barring Ali-Frazier I). Holyfield fought his heart out and probably fought the wrong fight. In the rematch, Holy had a sound gameplan and was able to outbox the bigger man in another great fight.

2. Dwight Muhammad Qawi I - What really makes this one special, and makes it better than his other wins is that Holy was a novice with only 11 pro fights. Qawi was the best & baddest cruiserweight at the time and Holyfield outboxed, outfought and pretty decisively beat him in an absolute war. Qawi showed amazing poise here for a novice.
. 
3. Mike Tyson I - What needs to be said about this one? Tyson opened as a goddamn 25-1 favorite! Holyfield was seen as shot, and Tyson was supposed to knock him out in a few rounds according to certain experts. What happened instead was an absolute clinic. Holyfield shows the world how to smother a power puncher like Tyson. Holy showed he was the real deal.

4. George Foreman - This was imo the best version of Old Foreman. Not the one that was getting battered by Morrison or the fatter one that arguably beat Briggs. Probably the most trim version, also. Prior to this fight Old Foreman just KO'd Cooney and a capable Bert Cooper. So he was a credible fighter. What was billed as a joke turned out to be a real war. Funnily enough, Holy claims George hit him the hardest out of all his opponents.

5. Mercer/Douglas/Moorer/Holmes/Stewart



mick557 said:


> Cotto
> 
> Mosley
> Martinez
> ...


I don't see how Margarito could possibly be rated that high in Cotto's wins. Margacheato just got #rekt by Mosley and then Packy fucked up his eye. I don't agree. Judah, Randall Bailey, are better than that version of Margacheeto.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Better win: Martinez or Lockridge? They're always grouped close. Mario seemed to trouble almost everyone not JCC, but Lockridge had great versatility to his game. Speaking of injuries, I don't think it would've been nearly as competitive if not for Julio busting a knuckle early on. That was a different sort of performance.
> 
> @Zopilote?
> 
> FTR I'd go with Taylor, Rosario, Lockridge, Martinez, Ramirez to answer the thread question. I don't think he was all too invested in beating up his compadre though.


Lockridge.

He was the unofficial top guy of the division at the time.

I saw that fight again the other night. Its not as competitive as many claim IMO and I have to laugh at the dipshits who claim Julio got a gift. Julio put on a clinic. His uppercuts were fantastic in that fight.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Better win: Martinez or Lockridge? They're always grouped close. Mario seemed to trouble almost everyone not JCC, but Lockridge had great versatility to his game. Speaking of injuries, I don't think it would've been nearly as competitive if not for Julio busting a knuckle early on. That was a different sort of performance.


Lockridge is a better win historically.
Nobody knows who Azabache is.

Lockridge's best win is Pedroza.
Azabache's best win is Azumah.

The Lockridge fight shows that Chavez wasn't an unstoppable bull.
The Azabache fight shows that Chavez wasn't an outboxable bull.

I'd say Lockridge was a slightly better fighter at his best.
But only slightly.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> FTR


Was it Chavez's controversial loss to Laporte that finally convinced you that JC's not Sanchez's level?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Lockridge.
> 
> He was the unofficial top guy of the division at the time.
> 
> I saw that fight again the other night. Its not as competitive as many claim IMO and I have to laugh at the dipshits who claim Julio got a gift. Julio put on a clinic. His uppercuts were fantastic in that fight.


It wasn't no MD for certain.

I saw the Haugen and Ali fights again the other night. So god damn awesome, even past his best. Pacheco and Czyz were whining incessantly about Chavez taking the 5th round off against Terrance for a good minute-plus before he absolutely unloads a vintage combo on him and knocks him back into the ropes, has him wobbling all over the ring the last 30 seconds. Of course, he put him down almost immediately to start 6th and a mildly controversial -and inevitable - stoppage ensues. Am I a sick person for deriving so much joy and unrestrained glee from seeing.him beating another man's liver in absolute mince meat? :rofl I mean I was almost laughing out loud excitedly at every clean connect.



Lester1583 said:


> Was it Chavez's controversial loss to Laporte that finally convinced you that JC's not Sanchez's level?


I didn't realise you were such a big Sanchez fan. :lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Oscar delahoya

Shane Mosley
Felix Trinidad
Julio Cesar Chavez
Pernell Whitaker
Rafael Ruelas


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> I didn't realise you were such a big Sanchez fan. :lol:


Chava died for Chavez's sins.

That's why I don't mad at him for disgracing entire country of Mexico in the 90's.

We all should learn to forgive - that's what Salvador would want us to do.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Oscar delahoya
> 
> Shane Mosley
> Felix Trinidad
> ...


DrMo was in this thread banging on about Ike Quartey, fish nets and high heels.



Lester1583 said:


> Chava died for Chavez's sins.
> 
> That's why I don't mad at him for disgracing entire country of Mexico in the 90's.
> 
> We all should learn to forgive - that's what Salvador would want us to do.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> It wasn't no MD for certain.
> 
> I saw the Haugen and Ali fights again the other night. So god damn awesome, even past his best. Pacheco and Czyz were whining incessantly about Chavez taking the 5th round off against Terrance for a good minute-plus before he absolutely unloads a vintage combo on him and knocks him back into the ropes, has him wobbling all over the ring the last 30 seconds. Of course, he put him down almost immediately to start 6th and a mildly controversial -and inevitable - stoppage ensues. Am I a sick person for deriving so much joy and unrestrained glee from seeing.him beating another man's liver in absolute mince meat? :rofl I mean I was almost laughing out loud excitedly at every clean connect.
> 
> I didn't realise you were such a big Sanchez fan. :lol:


Hard NOT to enjoy watching Julio beating the shit out of another man..

Such beautiful brutality :yep


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> @*Bill Jincock* did.
> 
> He saw the future through Kalule's eyes.
> 
> Still not as shocking as Esparragoza at #2 .


Jincock dropped Â£20 large on this fight.








Zopilote said:


> Hard NOT to enjoy watching Julio beating the shit out of another man..
> 
> Such beautiful brutality :yep


Haugen in particular never really had a chance, but it's still up there in terms of performances.


----------



## Bill Jincock (Jun 19, 2012)

:smile

Bramble was a good example of a fighter getting called a granite-chinned badass before there was really nearly enough evidence for it.Fragile Howard Davis jr looked like Hagler when he was taking Rosario's punches in comparison to that effort.Bramble just more or less quits too, if i remember rightly afterward he claimed he couldn't continue because he'd been thumbed.Talk about your reputation being totally destroyed in one fight.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> DrMo was in this thread banging on about Ike Quartey, fish nets and high heels


Oh the butthurt!


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Ã‰der Jofre

Johnny Caldwell
Jose Legra
Bernardo Caraballo
Jose Medel I
Piero Rollo


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Ok, now you're just being tliang.
> 
> @LittleRed, He fuckin' said it! He fuckin' said eeet!
> 
> What you're gonna do about it?


Since Lopez was shot his statement is true. Sadly.

So I'll let it go. For now...


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Vic said:


> Ã‰der Jofre


You already did Jofre once, Vic.
Your memory fails you - you're getting old, Vic, you're getting old.

Jofre won't get any greater, no matter how many times you list Legra's robbery in a win column.

Here's a harder task for you - name top 5 wins of the *third* greatest brazilian fighter.


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> You already did Jofre once, Vic.
> Your memory fails you - you're getting old, Vic, you're getting old.
> 
> Jofre won't get any greater, no matter how many times you list Legra's robbery in a win column.
> ...


Waldemar Santana?


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Oscar delahoya
> 
> Shane Mosley
> Felix Trinidad
> ...


Throwing in a lot of losses in there :rofl


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> You already did Jofre once, Vic.
> Your memory fails you - you're getting old, Vic, you're getting old.
> 
> Jofre won't get any greater, no matter how many times you list Legra's robbery in a win column.
> ...


Haha I did ? My memory is a fucking mess right now.

Oh, easy.

*JoÃ£o Henrique*:

Eddie Perkins
Maurice Cullen
Juan Alberto Aranda
Mario Molina
Vicente Derado

:cheers


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Vic said:


> Oh, easy.
> *JoÃ£o Henrique*:
> Eddie Perkins


On the footage available of Henrique he respects Locche's bone-crushing power so much, for a moment I thought Little Nico is gonna kill him with the first punch he connects cleanly.
All of Joao's actions screamed: "Diego is greater than Pele".
Henrique is directly responsible for the 1990 World Cup fiasco.
Are you sure you wanna rate a fighter with that attitude so high?

Secondly, he looks suspiciously like one those domestic fighters who used to steal Perkins' bike.

And most importantly, Henrique got knocked out by Bruno "Action Jabson" Arcari which automatically disqualifies him from any serious discussion.
While the criminally underrated M. De Oliveira drew with the discombobulating Wajima.

Food for thought?

You bet Neymar's glass spine it is.


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> On the footage available of Henrique he respects Locche's bone-crushing power so much, for a moment I thought Little Nico is gonna kill him with the first punch he connects cleanly.
> All of Joao's actions screamed: "Diego is greater than Pele".
> Henrique is directly responsible for the 1990 World Cup fiasco.
> Are you sure you wanna rate a fighter with that attitude so high?
> ...


From what IÂ´ve read the win Henrique got against Perkins was fair, granted I never found a foreign newspaper giving some opinion about the resutls, only brazilian ones. 
Miguel de Oliveira certainly gets underrated since he actually should have at least one win agains Wajima, he got robbed in the rematch in my opinion.


----------



## Perry (Feb 11, 2015)

Ali

Frazier 2
Liston 1
Foreman
Williams
Shavers


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Perry said:


> Ali
> 
> Frazier 2
> Liston 1
> ...


Williams? Williams was shot in both senses of the word; had a gunshot wound & was severely past his prime.

Lyle, Terrell, Bugner, Patterson and Chuvalo have to be considered better than that version of Williams.

Ali didn't face this version of Williams, that's for sure:


----------



## LeapingHook (Jan 2, 2014)

Hmm...

Zarate
Pintor
Davila
Laporte
Kobayashi/Kyun Yum (I'm not sure which is better)


----------



## Perry (Feb 11, 2015)

The Williams fight is considered as being Ali's finest top physical peak. The primest Ali which we saw very little of since his best period he could not fight. Dundee also considered this as Ali at his best. As such this fight should be on everyone's list.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Perry said:


> The Williams fight is considered as being Ali's finest top physical peak. The primest Ali which we saw very little of since his best period he could not fight. Dundee also considered this as Ali at his best. As such this fight should be on everyone's list.


If you have Ali as your favourite fighter of course?
It's his Floyd-Castillo moment.


----------



## the cobra (Jun 6, 2013)

Pac:

1. Barrera I
2. Cotto
3. Marquez II
4. Bradley II
5. Morales II


B-Hop:

1. Trinidad
2. Tarver
3. Pascal II
4. Pavlik
5. Holmes (or Winky, I guess)


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## Perry (Feb 11, 2015)

I have many all time fav fighters. As hwt Ali comes out on top in my book. Tremendous physical capabilities...speed, reflexes, timing, best legs in hwt history...his legs alone would get him out of trouble, best jab, Then add to this chin, courage, will to win, stamina, and boxing smarts second to none. At his best a very difficult fighter for anyone to last 15 rounds with let alone beat.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Perry said:


> The Williams fight is considered as being Ali's finest top physical peak. The primest Ali which we saw very little of since his best period he could not fight. Dundee also considered this as Ali at his best. As such this fight should be on everyone's list.


Yeah, it's a great performance for sure but Ali has fought plenty of fighters better than that version of Williams. That's why it's not in Ali's top 5 wins.


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