# Cotto-Martinez - predictions, analysis, build-up, news, etc....



## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

Quite surprised there hasn't been more talk on how this will play out. Granted, I haven't been on lately, but I would have thought there'd be more excitement around this? Back on ESB everyone was jacking off to a made-up rumour that Mayweather said Martinez' name in a sentence.

But here, Cotto is actually _fighting _him. Not by bringing him down to 154 which he so easily could have done, but by going up to middleweight (159, but whatever). Ballsy move. And by far the best and most meaningful fight that will take place this summer (probably the whole year), and we haven't got a prediction thread for it. Or maybe we have and I missed it. I don't know.

In any case, lay it all here. Your predictions, thoughts, analysis, etc. Would be nice to refer back to this thread after the result.

I'm going with Martinez stoppage, and will try and add other thoughts as the days, weeks and months pass by to June 7th.

How do you guys see it?

*Edit:* Ahh shit. Forgot to add a poll. Any way I can add it on?


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## tonys333 (Jun 5, 2013)

I think Martinez stops him in my opinion he will be to big for Cotto. Miguel has no business at Middleweight I actually wish he could have stayed at Welterweight. that said this is a really brave move from Cotto and give him major respect for taking such a challenge an it would be nice if he could actually pull it off. if he does I think we get a Floyd vs Miguel rematch though.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Miguel once again proving he's the "take all comers" champion on this era. I think he comes out trying to pressure Sergio, whose footwork has slowed considerably in the last couple of years. Jabbing to the chest to freeze Martinez, remembering the left hook downstairs on occasion. Miguel is actually the fresher fighter in there, unless all the wars from early on suddenly catch up to him.

The thing is, that while Miguel probably lands more, Sergio lands harder. The fight will be won down the stretch as Miguel is feeling Sergio's power but up on the cards. If he hangs on for the full 12, he can win a close one. But I wouldn't be surprised to see a ref stoppage with Cotto up on the cards.


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## burn1 (Jun 4, 2013)

I think Martinez will tko Cotto easily.

This is a money grab for Cotto.


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## welsh_dragon83 (Aug 11, 2013)

Good fight but foty I hope it be bigger fights than this, ATM I can't decide think it's a 50/50


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## tonys333 (Jun 5, 2013)

This is also a great fight for Cotto. If he wins against an aging Martinez so could be possible he enhances his legacy an also it could possible lead to a Floyd rematch. If he losses he will more than likely get the Canelo fight at some point down the line so it is win win for him really.


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## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

Roach will thrown in the towel as Martinez sends Cotto to the canvas multiple x's.


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## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

I also think Martinez' recent performances can be a little misleading. If he looked beatable, it was probably due to the size/strength of the opponents he was facing. 

Can't envisage Cotto being able to bring that same daunting pressure. Martinez will be far more comfortable in this fight. For once, he's the bigger stronger guy.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Good thread. I think Cotto will beast out and try to bully him. But I also wouldn't be surprised to see Martinez improve on what Trout did. Regardless, I think it will be competitive. Looking forward to this fight very much. Hopefully the NY CHB Meet comes through for this fight.


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## ChicoTheBoy (Jun 5, 2013)

I think Sergio stops him late, Cotto will do very well early, but he will gas as he always does IMO.


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## Kid Cubano (Jun 5, 2013)

If Martinez is healthy he wins by late KO or UD


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Martinez struggles with big guys. Pavlik, Barker, Macklin, Murray. All big guys who had someway of having a say in the dictation of distance. Chavez was a big guy, but he really lacked the craft to have any say in the range that their fight was fought at. What's interesting here, is that Cotto has an excellent jab, though he lacks in size. So here we find out if the key to troubling Sergio, is physical size, or distance negotiating technique.

Now, most technical predictions I've read on this fight, seem to envision Cotto going into bull mode, and rushing Sergio. I disagree. Cotto needs composure, and timing to keep touching Sergio with his left, frustrating him and forcing him into leaping forward, from there Cotto needs to dip, hook the body, then turn his hips inwards before exploding into a re-coil and nailing a head hook. He needs to use his footwork to pivot out though, dance backwards and restore distance, so he can establish a range controlling lead hand once again.

There's more too it than that, but I'd honestly have Cotto fight a patient fight, with more range than most would expect.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> Martinez struggles with big guys. Pavlik, Barker, Macklin, Murray. All big guys who had someway of having a say in the dictation of distance. Chavez was a big guy, but he really lacked the craft to have any say in the range that their fight was fought at. What's interesting here, is that Cotto has an excellent jab, though he lacks in size. So here we find out if the key to troubling Sergio, is physical size, or distance negotiating technique.
> 
> Now, most technical predictions I've read on this fight, seem to envision Cotto going into bull mode, and rushing Sergio. I disagree. Cotto needs composure, and timing to keep touching Sergio with his left, frustrating him and forcing him into leaping forward, from there Cotto needs to dip, hook the body, then turn his hips inwards before exploding into a re-coil and nailing a head hook. He needs to use his footwork to pivot out though, dance backwards and restore distance, so he can establish a range controlling lead hand once again.
> 
> There's more too it than that, but I'd honestly have Cotto fight a patient fight, with more range than most would expect.


My hesitance on having Cotto try to pick his spots and favor accuracy over volume is the way Trout was able to exploit that. Cotto could have been lighter on his feet in that fight though; it's an interesting proposition you put forth. For me the key is that Sergio is no stranger to being put down as he moves to his left. He doesn't quite weave under the way Pacquiao does and is more prone to having his feet out of position.


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## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> My hesitance on having Cotto try to pick his spots and favor accuracy over volume is the way Trout was able to exploit that. Cotto could have been lighter on his feet in that fight though; it's an interesting proposition you put forth. For me the key is that Sergio is no stranger to being put down as he moves to his left. He doesn't quite weave under the way Pacquiao does and is more prone to having his feet out of position.


He drops his hands, which opens the pathway for the jab. If you watch Pacquaio weave under shots, his posture is much more technically correct than Martinez, who tends to put too much weight on to his front foot, causing his chin to come a shade further forward than I'd advise. (Imagine if Cotto managed to snap a hook off.) Good spot mate.

Cotto showed a nice guard in the Mayweather fight, and blocked a lot of straight shots, if he can replicate that, then he'll have a great base to build on.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> He drops his hands, which opens the pathway for the jab. If you watch Pacquaio weave under shots, his posture is much more technically correct than Martinez, who tends to put too much weight on to his front foot, causing his chin to come a shade further forward than I'd advise. (Imagine if Cotto managed to snap a hook off.) Good spot mate.
> 
> Cotto showed a nice guard in the Mayweather fight, and blocked a lot of straight shots, if he can replicate that, then he'll have a great base to build on.


Yeah exactly. (Meant moving to the right, you knew what I meant though). A hook in that moment would be ideal.

What do you think was the problem against Trout? Was his guard not as tight? Not enough upper body movement?


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## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah exactly. (Meant moving to the right, you knew what I meant though). A hook in that moment would be ideal.
> 
> What do you think was the problem against Trout? Was his guard not as tight? Not enough upper body movement?


I think the gameplan was to walk through Trout. They were a little naive going into that fight, and Cotto appeared a little thicker set than he should of been or had been previously. First off, Austin is a nightmare for Cotto, any day of the week, but Cotto allowed him to fight his fight. He lacked the lateral motions to negate Trout's offense and took too may shots as a result. I was really disappointed in Cotto and Diaz that night. Especially with the Alvarez fight on the line. You'd hope they'd of been a little more meticulous.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> I think the gameplan was to walk through Trout. They were a little naive going into that fight, and Cotto appeared a little thicker set than he should of been or had been previously. First off, Austin is a nightmare for Cotto, any day of the week, but Cotto allowed him to fight his fight. He lacked the lateral motions to negate Trout's offense and took too may shots as a result. I was really disappointed in Cotto and Diaz that night. Especially with the Alvarez fight on the line. You'd hope they'd of been a little more meticulous.


Yeah they probably took him lightly. Cotto definitely looked less mobile and more heavy set. He looked much springier against Rodriguez, which is encouraging (and also more heavy handed than I anticipated.)


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Also @SJS20 I feel like size might be a factor, but it's really more of a patient stalking style with well-placed punches that throws Martinez off, because he has to do the leading himself, and finds himself open.

Just as we were talking about before, watch Martinez get caught with a left hook as he pulls out, and then a 1-2 as he's off balance moving to his right.


















Another moment where he's caught on the move:










Getting caught at close quarters:










Now Murray's height definitely helps him get his shots off over Martinez's, like the left jab over the right jab, but to me it seems more like patient pressure leading to opportunities for well-timed shots. A lot of those opportunities also arose because Martinez's movements were stifled by his bad knee, but I wouldn't be surprised to see that resurface. And even if it doesn't, Macklin was able to make their fight competitive as well through pressure.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

A thread I made on it 3 years ago, arguing that Cotto's best chance would be to emulate Barrera's gameplan against Hamed.

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?p=10861135


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## Super Kalleb (Aug 19, 2013)

I like the 2 fighters, I'll root for Cotto. 
But it will be easy for Martinez. 


Martinez TKO 6 rd. 


too much big, strong, fast and slicker for Cotto.


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## J.R. (May 21, 2013)

Nothing but a big payday for both involved. Cotto too small to provide a serious threat to Martinez... and an overall smart move by Sergio to take a stab at one more big payoff before possibly getting decapitated by Triple G and being sent into retirement.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

The only way Cotto wins is if Martinez is diminished. I know people will say if anyone is diminished it is Cotto, but Miguel seems to have a great heart and ability to motivate himself. If Cotto is not a Hall of Fame fighter, his heart is one of the greatest ever. Reminds me of Holyfield. With that said, I think Martinez will get motivated in this fight, and he has had a rest. He is bigger and fast and I think he stops Cotto late on cuts. Maybe even midrounds.


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## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

I seriously wouldn't be surprised if Cotto fails to win a single round before he gets stopped in the 8th or 9th round.


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## JohnAnthony (Jun 6, 2013)

Cotto's only chance is too walk martine down. be the bigger guy. Then i could see that left hook being the game changer.

Problem is, how is a small light middle supposed to walk down a full sized middleweight.


I see Cotto not being able to take Martinez power and getting stopped. possibly early in the 1st couple of rounds


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## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

Another issue for Cotto is that Martinez can carry his power late. When fatigued and hurt himself, he's still managed to bust up, drop and stop much bigger/durable guys than Cotto.


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## gander tasco (Jun 23, 2013)

Cotto is a better fighter, but he's not at his best vs lefties and Martinez is a bigger guy too. They'll need a good gameplan , I would focus on speed.


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## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Also @SJS20 I feel like size might be a factor, but it's really more of a patient stalking style with well-placed punches that throws Martinez off, because he has to do the leading himself, and finds himself open.
> 
> Just as we were talking about before, watch Martinez get caught with a left hook as he pulls out, and then a 1-2 as he's off balance moving to his right.
> 
> ...


Please don't judge him on the Murray fight. He must of been desperate to fight at home in Argentina because his body can't of been anymore than 60% that night. I've seen Murray fight live three times, and all three times I've been disappointed. Martinez had little to no mobility in that fight, he tried to fight using his usual style and he didn't have the tools to do it. You mention Macklin, but Matty is much bigger physically than Miguel Cotto is.

You could argue that Martinez lead against Chavez. Julio didn't offer much in the way of offense that night, and Sergio looked fantastic. Again I'd argue that was mostly due to Chavez having zero say in what range Martinez could fight him at. Let me ask you, do you think Cotto is capable of maneuvering Martinez into a corner or against the ropes? Sergio isn't exactly Joshua Clottey when it comes to footwork.


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## 2377 (Jun 6, 2013)

To me the X factor in this fight will be Martinez coming off a 1+ year layoff and a bunch of injuries. Will he look refreshed, or will he look rusty? 

Maravilla stands about 5'9" with a 73" reach, Cotto is about 5'6" and 67". A good comparison in terms of size would be to look at the Trout-Cotto fight (Austin is about as big as Sergio); obviously the fighting style is different but I don't see Miguel having any more success with Martinez than he did with Trout. 

I love the fact that Cotto is taking this fight, he's one of my favorite fighters ever and a first ballot HOF'er in my eyes. But I gotta favor Martinez big in this one if he is anywhere near his best. We'll know after a few rounds if he got old over night or not. And if he hasn't, Martinez dominates this fight.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> Please don't judge him on the Murray fight. He must of been desperate to fight at home in Argentina because his body can't of been anymore than 60% that night. I've seen Murray fight live three times, and all three times I've been disappointed. Martinez had little to no mobility in that fight, he tried to fight using his usual style and he didn't have the tools to do it.


Why so confident Martinez's movement isn't permanently stifled?



SJS20 said:


> You mention Macklin, but Matty is much bigger physically than Miguel Cotto is.


Yeah, but he's better, and Martinez is older.



SJS20 said:


> You could argue that Martinez lead against Chavez. Julio didn't offer much in the way of offense that night, and Sergio looked fantastic. Again I'd argue that was mostly due to Chavez having zero say in what range Martinez could fight him at. Let me ask you, do you think Cotto is capable of maneuvering Martinez into a corner or against the ropes? Sergio isn't exactly Joshua Clottey when it comes to footwork.


Definitely agree. Sergio's plan was brilliant against Chavez Jr. because he pushed him back often and left him incapable of doing anything. I said before the fight that he should do it and thought he would based on sparring clips. But the trick there is Jr. is less equipped to use lateral movement to circle away or pivot on the inside. Cotto has better footwork and craft on the inside. So I think Cotto may not be able to sustain an attack against Martinez against the ropes, but can patiently lead him there before landing punches and getting out. Much like Murray did. I think Sergio will be well-prepared but he's not getting any younger, has been inactive, and had a nasty knee ligament tear, and has showed moments of vulnerability while on the move previously.


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## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Why so confident Martinez's movement isn't permanently stifled?
> 
> Yeah, but he's better, and Martinez is older.
> 
> Definitely agree. Sergio's plan was brilliant against Chavez Jr. because he pushed him back often and left him incapable of doing anything. I said before the fight that he should do it and thought he would based on sparring clips. But the trick there is Jr. is less equipped to use lateral movement to circle away or pivot on the inside. Cotto has better footwork and craft on the inside. So I think Cotto may not be able to sustain an attack against Martinez against the ropes, but can patiently lead him there before landing punches and getting out. Much like Murray did. I think Sergio will be well-prepared but he's not getting any younger, has been inactive, and had a nasty knee ligament tear, and has showed moments of vulnerability while on the move previously.


He may not move the same as before, but I'd be prepared to bet on him moving better against Cotto than he did against Murray. For one, the canvas will be dry, meaning he won't be slipping over on that bad knee, and secondly the length of the lay off he's had. I think he's taken his time, and got his body right. Remember that Martinez has a background in two other sports 'Soccer' (Football to me), and cycling. Both of those obviously require the legs. If he's been using them all his life, to that level of strain and performance, don't you think he'd realize if they'd totally betrayed him? He's not stupid, and he has other avenues to make money asides from Boxing, so I doubt he'd do it if he wasn't healthy. Correct, he is older but his shorter career and base as an athlete, as opposed to a gym rat style Boxer for example, should really help his physical longevity.

Martinez vs Chavez is one of my favorite fights of the last few years. I remember, and you were right about SM's tactics. The 24/7 series showed him working inside during the brief sparring clips. I'm curious, if you're Cotto, you have Martinez moving in and out, throwing his array of punches, then dipping low and weaving out to his right hand side, how would you take that and maneuver him to the ropes? Do you think educated steps are enough? 'When he steps here, you step there?'


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## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

interesting to see so many not giving Cotto much of a chance...


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## Glove_Game (Feb 5, 2014)

Sergio Martinez TKO 11th Round while behind on the scorecards. Cotto is given Immense credit along with Roach as he puts on a gutsy display while sticking to a perfect gameplan. Sergio gets better each round before pulling it out in a FOTY candidate. This is the only fight I've ever had a dream of. This shit is going down exactly as I typed it.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> He may not move the same as before, but I'd be prepared to bet on him moving better against Cotto than he did against Murray.


Agreed.



SJS20 said:


> For one, the canvas will be dry, meaning he won't be slipping over on that bad knee, and secondly the length of the lay off he's had. I think he's taken his time, and got his body right. Remember that Martinez has a background in two other sports 'Soccer' (Football to me), and cycling. Both of those obviously require the legs. If he's been using them all his life, to that level of strain and performance, don't you think he'd realize if they'd totally betrayed him? He's not stupid, and he has other avenues to make money asides from Boxing, so I doubt he'd do it if he wasn't healthy. Correct, he is older but his shorter career and base as an athlete, as opposed to a gym rat style Boxer for example, should really help his physical longevity.


Yeah I don't think his legs are useless, or that he's shot, or that he's coming in unprepared. Far from it. I just think that there's a good chance it starts bothering him again, even if he doesn't re-injure it. For someone who depends so much on movement, it's a concern.



SJS20 said:


> Martinez vs Chavez is one of my favorite fights of the last few years. I remember, and you were right about SM's tactics. The 24/7 series showed him working inside during the brief sparring clips. I'm curious, if you're Cotto, you have Martinez moving in and out, throwing his array of punches, then dipping low and weaving out to his right hand side, how would you take that and maneuver him to the ropes? Do you think educated steps are enough? 'When he steps here, you step there?'


Martinez's general pattern of movement is pretty easy to track IMO. He circles to his left, feints with his upper body like a pecking bird, gains space that way as you follow him, jabs, then moves to his right as he throws his left straight to the body or up top. What Cotto needs to do is keep him at the end of his jab, control the center on his toes as he did against Yuri Foreman, look to throw the left jab over his, and the right hand while Martinez circles to his left. But he can't follow Martinez around, he needs to step back and go side to side and go in when it suits him (when Martinez is on the move). When Martinez goes to throw and move rightwards, Cotto needs to duck down and throw a left to the body or up top, catching Martinez as he tries to turn out, and following up with combinations.

The key IMO is not to trap Martinez on the ropes, but get him to commit to exiting on either side, and throwing in the direction of his escape route before stepping out and restarting the process of light-footed stalking behind a jab and changing levels.


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## sg-85 (Jun 21, 2012)

:bump

http://www.worldboxingnews.net/news...o-on-the-verge-of-official-announcement.html?

Will be in NYC for that weekend. :happy


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## ElTrigueno (Jun 6, 2013)

Good! Would love to see that...


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## sg-85 (Jun 21, 2012)

> NEW YORK (AP) - Miguel Cotto will move up in weight to challenge Sergio Martinez of Argentina for his piece of the middleweight title June 7 at Madison Square Garden, promoters announced Thursday.
> 
> Cotto will try for his fourth weight division title on the eve of the annual Puerto Rican Day Parade in New York. He faces a fighter who has lost only once in 14 years, though Martinez has looked vulnerable in recent fights and will be 39 when he enters the ring.
> 
> ...


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...efend-160-pound-title-against-cotto/5641289/?

:bbb:happy


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## PabstBlueRibbon (Jun 6, 2013)

With the fight up for grabs in the championship rounds Martinez stops a fatigued Cotto.


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## sg-85 (Jun 21, 2012)

Head - Martinez, Heart - War COTTO!


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## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Martinez late tko on cuts, Cotto has no chance.


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## igor_otsky (Jul 24, 2012)

sg-85 said:


> Head - Martinez, Heart - War COTTO!


war cotto!!!:ibutt

sergio would get the nod tho.. unles he gets careless and get chavezed in the 12th.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

sg-85 said:


> Head - Martinez, Heart - War COTTO!


:deal I would love to see Cotto pull off one last memorable performance. His career has already been so great, this would be a huge boost too.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Some good articles interviewing Roach on Cotto and Martinez.

-----

http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles/17997-roach-talks-about-cotto-sergio-pt-i










Fight fans in the NYC area, and beyond, are wanting the i's to be dotted and the t's crossed, and the announcement to be made already. They know that a June 7 clash at the Madison Square Garden big room between Sergio Martinez, the Argentine heart-breaker who always makes for exciting fights, because of a tendency to have fun, and drop his hands, and Puerto Rican jewel Miguel Cotto is a can't miss rumble.

Lou DiBella will co-promote with Top Rank and Bob Arum, as Sergio's handler. I asked the New York based dealmaker where the fight stands. "Ask Cotto and Top Rank," he said. "The holdup's not on our end." So I did.

Is Cotto-Martinez close, Bob?

"That's gonna happen," Arum said.

"The deal is still not in place," said Cotto advisor Gaby Penagaricano to me. "Although we are very close."

The 33-year-old Cotto, no stranger to trainer musical chairs, will again be trained by Freddie Roach; the two seemed to jell nicely in their first waltz together, for an Oct. 5 tangle against Delvin Rodriguez.

Cotto looked nastier, quicker of hand and foot and more sold on using his sharp left hook than we'd seen previously...

I asked Freddie what would happen if and when Cotto gets in with Martinez, who last fought in April 2013 (UD12 win over Martin Murray), and turns 39 on Feb. 21. The trainer told me that Cotto will attend Pacman's next bout, and then training will begin the day after.

"Martinez may be on the downside, but still has a lot of speed, is still a very capable guy," he said. "He's never been a great fighter, he's always been a great athlete. I wouldn't call him a great boxer. I think Cotto's boxing ability will just overwhelm Sergio, with Cotto in shape. Me and Cotto worked so well together the first fight together. He has a lot of respect for me and the program we had was really, really good. And we're gonna do that again.

"Going in to the Rodriguez fight, I said, 'Who the eff picked this guy to fight, he's an awkward guy.' But he followed the plan so well, he made it look easy." But, as I noted to Roach, after Cotto blew out Delvin, some smartypantses came out and said that Delvin was a bum, and the fight proved nothing. The trainer said that the win was meaningful, because it shows what Cotto in shape can do, and what they can do as a team.

"Miguel told me, if he was in that kind of shape for Mayweather, he would have beat Mayweather," Roach said.

(Part 2) http://www.thesweetscience.com/news...cotto-martinez-talks-catchweight-hooking-pt-2










There won't be three bigger fights this year than the Sergio Martinez-Miguel Cotto fight, which will, unless it goes off the rails in the ninth inning of negotiations, take place June 7 at the Madison Square Garden big room.

Many folks I talk to seem to think that Sergio Martinez, a natural at middleweight, will get the better of Cotto. Needless to say, Cotto's trainer Freddie Roach spits in their eye. He explained to me why the 2014 Miguel Cotto is a dangerous animal, and a better version of the guy we saw losing to Floyd Mayweather and Austin Trout.

"He wasn't getting along with his trainer, and when you don't get along with your trainer, it's not a good situation," Roach told me. Dedham Freddie knows Cotto and trainers are like Kardashians and marriage but he says Cotto hasn't said no to anything and they get along. Cotto has been present for 5 AM runs and he expects the same for this camp, he said.

The left hook to the body, what Roach calls Cotto's best shot, returned against Delvin Rodriguez last October.

"Why'd you stop throwing that shot?" Roach said he asked the Puerto Rican.

"I don't know," Cotto confessed.

"You won't do it if you don't practice it," Roach counseled the fighter.

He said ex trainer Pedro Diaz hadn't pushed him to use it, so, Roach said he did, and will. That is his "bread and butter" which Martinez would have to respect, he stated. There was no bread, and no butter, from Cotto in the Austin Trout fight, but he's now back in form, Freddie said. "The Austin Trout fight, Miguel didn't show up for it," Freddie noted.

Delivering that left hook to the body against a lefty is harder, Freddie admitted, but he will explain the technical necessities to make sure it lands properly, he said. "It's a little more difficult against a lefty, you have to set it up better, you have to use a little decoy. I think we can beat Martinez down the middle. I had a gameplan with Chavez Jr. against Sergio. His defense is pretty poor, if you exchange with him, let your hands go with him, he's very hittable. Chavez didn't do that till the last round, you saw what happened! And, Chavez only trained five days for that fight. So, I will have a guy who comes in great shape and will listen to me and use the gameplan, and I think we're gonna have a good fight.

"I like Martinez, he's a good guy. At one point I saw him, and said hi, and he said, 'I thought you didn't like me.' It's just talk," Roach said, candidly. "I don't dislike anybody. But I think I have the better fighter."

Regarding that weight class...Roach said the catchweight will be 159 pounds. "My guy is going to come in the ring about 154, 155, that's his best fighting weight. Weight doesn't win fights, boxing ability does. Sergio is actually a small guy himself, he's always said he's a welterweight."


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

http://www.boxingscene.com/sergio-martinez-roach-help-ill-knock-cotto-out--75502

http://www.boxingscene.com/sergio-martinez-cotto-tougher-chavez-jr--75506


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## sg-85 (Jun 21, 2012)

Shouldnt ticketmaster / the garden websites have info up their sites by now for the fight, you know just general info, sale dates etc, or does it normally go up on the day the tickets go on sale (tomorrow)?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

sg-85 said:


> Shouldnt ticketmaster / the garden websites have info up their sites by now for the fight, you know just general info, sale dates etc, or does it normally go up on the day the tickets go on sale (tomorrow)?


I think probably then. Though the fight is a long way off.

Fuck, ticket sales already? Dammit.


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## sg-85 (Jun 21, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I think probably then. Though the fight is a long way off.
> 
> Fuck, ticket sales already? Dammit.


Yeah it does seem quite early but i've gotta be on the ball with this, dont wanna miss out, flights/hotel are already sorted but the only updates i keep seeing is on the scene or wbn saying "tickets available at ticketmaster or thegarden.com" but nothing is showing on those sites.

Suppose im gonna have to be patient for one more day then.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

sg-85 said:


> Yeah it does seem quite early but i've gotta be on the ball with this, dont wanna miss out, flights/hotel are already sorted but the only updates i keep seeing is on the scene or wbn saying "tickets available at ticketmaster or thegarden.com" but nothing is showing on those sites.
> 
> Suppose im gonna have to be patient for one more day then.


Ah shit. Time to notify the NY Meet thread. Thanks.


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## sg-85 (Jun 21, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Ah shit. Time to notify the NY Meet thread. Thanks.


No problem.


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## sg-85 (Jun 21, 2012)

Tickets now on sale. 

Got my 2 lower tier tickets! Will be going to my first fight in America, what a place to start at the legendary MSG! 

:happy :bbbarty:hammer:bluesuitbama


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

sg-85 said:


> Tickets now on sale.
> 
> Got my 2 lower tier tickets! Will be going to my first fight in America, what a place to start at the legendary MSG!
> 
> :happy :bbbarty:hammer:bluesuitbama


Nice man. I'm gonna get my tickets tonight with my boys.


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## Dipset (Jun 9, 2013)

Sergio is a hoe...but if he wins he deserves for Floyd Mayweather to move up & beat the grey hairs off him...


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## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

Says the following:


Martinez shouldn't be too upset about Cotto's demands because, the fact is, Cotto is the bigger draw
Cotto is very dedicated and great to work with
Have a good gameplan for the fight and hopes for a stoppage
Martinez has a lot of speed, but as he's getting older he might lose some of it. But still acknowledges he's quick.
Unlike Chavez, this time he has a more dedicated fighter to implement his gameplan. Chavez could have got the win if he turned up to the gym a few more days. Cotto is a better technician than Chavez, and it'll be shown in the fight. 
Cotto has big fights ahead of him if he wins - maybe Mayweather rematch.


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## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

Says the following:


Cotto doesn't remember, but the way he treats people bothers him. The way he walks in the building, etc.
This is a game of men. But the type of stuff Cotto is asking for, isn't the stuff of men. Let's just fight. 
Plans on being more active. When he's more active, Cotto will be less active, and the fight will go his way.
Wants to keep his feet on the ground and not worry about who's the draw. Just wants the first bell to ring.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

He actually said Cotto has an ego that doesn't fit in the building :lol:

Interesting to hear Martinez say that when he's active, Cotto will be passive. That's what Cotto exhibited in the Trout fight, staying at the end of Trout's punches too often instead of changing the range. Can't afford to allow that space to Martinez.


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## Vino Veritas (May 17, 2013)

Fuck I hope Martinez retires Cotto.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Behind Sexy 100%

I don't even know why so many people like Cotto, he's always seemed like a complete prick to me. Most on here who have met him seem to back this up.


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## r1p00pk (Jun 13, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Behind Sexy 100%
> 
> I don't even know why so many people like Cotto, he's always seemed like a complete prick to me. Most on here who have met him seem to back this up.


I have no idea why anybody would like a guy who has fought nearly everyone and who fights a certain way that entertains people either , guess we both will never know :rolleyes


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

r1p00pk said:


> I have no idea why anybody would like a guy who has fought nearly everyone and who fights a certain way that entertains people either , guess we both will never know :rolleyes


He's not that much of an action fighter :conf


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## r1p00pk (Jun 13, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> He's not that much of an action fighter :conf


you may not enjoy his style but many others do. I enjoyed him the most before the first margarito fight but still choose to support him because his style still is entertaining. People like body punchers anyway.


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## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> He actually said Cotto has an ego that doesn't fit in the building :lol:


:rofl My bad.


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## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

Cotto is one of my favorite fighters but Martinez's size and the fact that he is a power punching lefty will be too much for Cotto.
Be fucking awesome if Cotto can pull it off though :ibutt


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## Unloco (Sep 19, 2013)

great fight , cotto at his best can make it a very competetive fight , i think he will suprise some people 
im a fan of both guys so i win either way


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Cotto's body attack is being massively overrated again everywhere I'm seeing. He looks good doing it to the Jennings of the world and that's it really. Hell I look like Chavez against my brother.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

Montero said:


> To me the X factor in this fight will be Martinez coming off a 1+ year layoff and a bunch of injuries. Will he look refreshed, or will he look rusty?
> 
> Maravilla stands about 5'9" with a 73" reach, Cotto is about 5'6" and 67". A good comparison in terms of size would be to look at the Trout-Cotto fight (Austin is about as big as Sergio); obviously the fighting style is different but I don't see Miguel having any more success with Martinez than he did with Trout.
> 
> I love the fact that Cotto is taking this fight, he's one of my favorite fighters ever and a first ballot HOF'er in my eyes. But I gotta favor Martinez big in this one if he is anywhere near his best. We'll know after a few rounds if he got old over night or not. And if he hasn't, Martinez dominates this fight.


sergio is 5´10 not 5´9 i have been next to him, i am 6´1 and he is actually 5´10


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## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Cotto's body attack is being massively overrated again everywhere I'm seeing. He looks good doing it to the Jennings of the world and that's it really. Hell I look like Chavez against my brother.


:lol:

Nah, he is a solid body puncher. But I agree that it'll factor very little against Martinez.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

r1p00pk said:


> you may not enjoy his style but many others do. I enjoyed him the most before the first margarito fight but still choose to support him because his style still is entertaining. People like body punchers anyway.


Cotto's style is entertaining, his demeanor is swagalicious but quiet, he's consistently fought the best, and there's a vulnerability about him fans can relate to. He's not invincible and that makes his heart all the more admirable to watch.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Cotto's body attack is being massively overrated again everywhere I'm seeing. He looks good doing it to the Jennings of the world and that's it really. Hell I look like Chavez against my brother.


And the Judahs, and the Corleys, and the Clotteys, and the Quintanas, and the Shane Mosleys. and the Mayweathers of the world....

So glad Roach is bringing it back.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

fact is that cotto did not look good against 147 floyd and 154 trout and now hes going to get a shot at the 160 lineal belt?

fucking boxing

tonight i get condit/woodley, shields/lombard, gastelum/story and lawler/hendricks in which all four bouts can go either way and three of the four fights i would much rather see than sergio against the faded cotto who would get worked over by any of the top seven ranked 154s.

its like the only intrigue of this fight is to see if sergio is just faded or completely shot.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> sergio is 5´10 not 5´9 i have been next to him, i am 6´1 and he is actually 5´10


Interestingly Cotto says Sergio's "not too big" and is gonna come in light.

http://www.boxingscene.com/cotto-come-light-says-martinez-not-too-big--75585

Them next to each other:


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

Martinez KO 9.


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## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Interestingly Cotto says Sergio's "not too big" and is gonna come in light.
> 
> http://www.boxingscene.com/cotto-come-light-says-martinez-not-too-big--75585
> 
> Them next to each other:


The heights can't accurately be distinguished from the pic. But it's clear who has the much bigger frame. Pic shows easily they're a couple of divisions apart.


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## Primadonna Kool (Jun 14, 2012)

Allot of people feel like Martinez is on a slip physically.

Cotto for me has maintain decent form for many years, he has not really dramatically decreased.

I originally predicted that Martinez was beat down Cotto but: You never know Cotto could some how get to Martinez.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> And the Judahs, and the Corleys, and the Clotteys, and the Quintanas, and the Shane Mosleys. and the Mayweathers of the world....
> 
> So glad Roach is bringing it back.


Judah and Corley wee the "PR" special if ya know what I mean :hey


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Judah and Corley wee the "PR" special if ya know what I mean :hey


:lol:


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## Mohak (Mar 12, 2014)

Martinez UD.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Cotto has started camp.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Cotto's English has improved a whole lot...


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

The Martinez training camp video was cool. Some of what he said: 

-He doesn't think the height will matter much, since Martinez has beaten fighters taller than himself as has Cotto, and thinks the difference will be mental, strategic.
-His knee is almost 100%, and is alternating cycling with running in order to reinforce the ligaments and avoid too much wear 
-Characterizes the Cotto fight as not a final chapter but a chance to make himself a name before his career is over 
-Talks about the team of fighters and how Kiko Martinez's recent win energized the camp
-He really looks forward to fighting in the atmosphere of MSG, how it's a dream and glory can't be any closer to his grasp
-Says he looks to fulfill his contract with HBO to fight twice more


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## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

I wish the winner of Chavez Jr-GGG is his farewell fight.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> I wish the winner of Chavez Jr-GGG is his farewell fight.


Win or lose (so long as it's not a bad loss) I would love that.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

what I think about this fight is that if Sergio were respectful of Cotto as a challenge, he would have won easily. But his disrespect changes it for me. Cotto is not a man you disrespect and think is an easy fight. He is too good for that. I am not saying he beats Sergio, but I think this is a good fight.


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

I wanna say Sergio is done, but then you look at Cotto and He hasn't been all that since PAC starched him


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## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

Cotto by KO.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Sexy at his open media workout on the slip ropes:


__
http://instagr.am/p/n6U526GfqJ/


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## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

The undercard for this is so awful smh


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## bhopheadbut (Jun 16, 2013)

sergio talks about his injuries


> "I was on crutches for a long time. Until December, I was walking on crutches. I was struggling. I used crutches since my surgery on October 31 until December 18. During all that time I was unable to lean on my right leg at all."
> The description of the added injuries seems to justify the harshness of the treatment.
> "I had a partially torn meniscus. I had a breakage in the femoral capsule, right behind the knee. I had a post-operation infection right before the [Martin] Murray fight. I had partially broken cartilage, where the cartilage became like a small saw on my tibia. I had an injury in my ligaments as well, a distension of the ligaments. I also had chondromalacia patellae, which is the injury that occurs beneath the kneecap. That's why they couldn't find an integral solution, because there were many injuries together. And recovering from that, being 39 years of age, was difficult. But thanks to the doctors I am fine."
> And judging by the treatment and the series of surgeries prior to that, it seems that Martinez has a lot to be thankful for.
> ...


http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/338259-sergio-martinez-i-feared-i-would-never-walk-again

and a clip of him training in madrid in spanish so no idea what he is on about

http://as.com/videos/2014/05/01/portada/1398924280_976889.html


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## ChicoTheBoy (Jun 5, 2013)

Easy work for Sergio, Cottos last two fights are very un impressive. A loss to trout (who is overrated) and a win over Delvin Rodriguez. Martinez will win, possibly dominate.


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## Rooster (Jul 14, 2013)

Chacal said:


> The undercard for this is so awful smh


Yeah, just read the full line-up. A bunch of FNF at best.

The continuation of Andy Lee's 2 year tune-up career vs the unknown son of someone who actually mattered.
The explosive Yuri Foreman vs never heard of him
Vasquez jr vs Sonsona is an okay fight but only really acceptable as the first fight in an already stacked tv card.

The fights are sort of interesting in their own right but fuck if they belong on PPV. I get the shit card from the promoters' viewpoint though. Anyone who is going to buy the card is probably going to buy it regardless of the line-up so why not get some exposure for other stable fighters for next to nothing.


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## ImElvis666 (Jul 20, 2012)

Rooster said:


> Yeah, just read the full line-up. A bunch of FNF at best.
> 
> The continuation of Andy Lee's 2 year tune-up career vs the unknown son of someone who actually mattered.
> The explosive Yuri Foreman vs never heard of him
> ...


Yeah it's an absolutely disgraceful ppv card. The main event is nothing special either seeing as both are way past their best and they are weight class apart. No neutrals are going to get this in.


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

i dont think martinez will be as mobile as he's been in the past. he definitely wont be jumping all over the place. i see him catching miguel with something big early in the fight. cotto will try to press the action, but he just doesnt have the fire power or the chin to stand and trade with martinez. i see martinez knocking cotto out. martinez is just a better fighter. much better fighter.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

kd three times(could make a case for five) in his last three fights.

two reconstructive knee surgeries and two broken left hands in consecutive fights along with an injured shoulder 

39 year-old who never had one-punch power who relies heavily on movement, speed and output

i know its small cotto who cant beat 154s lara, canelo, trout, andrande, charlo and probably still loses to vanes but how is sergio a 2-1 favorite here?

probably even money that some part of sergio breaks in the ring or breaks before he even gets into the ring


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> kd three times(could make a case for five) in his last three fights.
> 
> two reconstructive knee surgeries and two broken left hands in consecutive fights along with an injured shoulder
> 
> ...







you sound as though you're purely ignorant. discúlpate y salte.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> you sound as though you're purely ignorant. discúlpate y salte.


i figured some ignorant person such as yourself would make reference to sergios one and only one punch ko

manny was never a one punch guy either and kod hatton

hopkins kod lipsey

mccal kod lewis

lagrate, pendejo


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> i figured some ignorant person such as yourself would make reference to sergios one and only one punch ko
> 
> manny was never a one punch guy either and kod hatton
> 
> ...


martinez developed as fighter very late in his career. when he finally became a complete fighter, he had excellent power. even this version of martinez will be too much for cotto. a little 147 pounder stopped cotto, what do u think a solid 160 pounder is going to do to him? let me answer that for you: he's gonna get in that ass.


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> i figured some ignorant person such as yourself would make reference to sergios one and only one punch ko
> 
> manny was never a one punch guy either and kod hatton
> 
> ...


manny's power is ridiculous. he wobbled the granite chinned margarito several times, he put mosley down with a single punch, he brutalized cotto for the better part of 12 rounds before the referee mercifully stepped in. he beat morales into submission and beat the fuck out of barrera. fighters with little power cant do that. its hard to knock good boxers out cold. u need devastating power to be able to do so. ricky hatton was battled tested and possessed a very good chin. manny laid that boy out.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> martinez developed as fighter very late in his career. when he finally became a complete fighter, he had excellent power. even this version of martinez will be too much for cotto. a little 147 pounder stopped cotto, what do u think a solid 160 pounder is going to do to him? let me answer that for you: he's gonna get in that ass.


im not betting on this fight and i agree with everything you are saying about cotto but there is a difference between power and one punch power. sergio generally obtained his kos through an accumulation of damage by his great work rate as opposed to tommy hearns one punch ko-type power.

im just pointing out that there is probably a great likelihood that you will not be seeing sergio throwing 700 punches(his normal workrate) in this fight due to his injuries which will change the dynamic of what kind of fighter he is.

like vintage pacquiao a good part of his defense was his offense


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> martinez developed as fighter very late in his career. when he finally became a complete fighter, he had excellent power. even this version of martinez will be too much for cotto. a little 147 pounder stopped cotto, what do u think a solid 160 pounder is going to do to him? let me answer that for you: he's gonna get in that ass.


TBF, Manny isn't a one punch guy at 140lbs/147lbs...Manny caught hatton with a perfect punch...Just like Martinez did to Williams in their rematch, and Marquez to Pacquiao in their 4th.


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## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

quincy k said:


> i figured some ignorant person such as yourself would make reference to sergios one and only one punch ko
> 
> manny was never a one punch guy either and kod hatton
> 
> ...


Are you for real? Do you not understand the concept of a one punch knock out?

Now how do you say a dude hasn't got one punch knockout power when there's footage out there SHOWING YOU of his one punch knock out against iron chinned Paul Williams. How do you dispute that? And then go as far as to say Pacquiao hasn't got one punch knockout power after what he did to Hatton and also the shots he landed on Mosley and Cotto.

If you have one punch knockout power, it doesn't mean you knock blokes out cold left right and center, even Golovkin doesn't do that and he's regarded as one of the heaviest hitters. It means you have the power to spark out a dude cold, and both Pacquiao and Martinez have shown that against high level points.

How can you even argue against that by saying "I knew you'd show evidence of his only one punch knock out power, but he doesn't have true one punch knock out power?"

MIND BOGGLIN'



Zopilote said:


> TBF, Manny isn't a one punch guy at 140lbs/147lbs...Manny caught hatton with a perfect punch...Just like Martinez did to Williams in their rematch, and Marquez to Pacquiao in their 4th.


:lol: this is proper amazing to me. Absolutely unreal. So these guys don't have one punch knockout power, they just hit them with a perfect punch?

Isn't that what one punch KO's are? Clean shots on the button? Some right bollocks being talked here. Either you have power or you don't. You land a shot on a dude cold and if it's the right angle, the right velocity, with enough behind it, he's going to sleep. Trying to refute that against guys like Pacquiao and Martinez and saying "well they don't hit THAT hard" is unreal. There's fucking evidence out there, man.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> manny's power is ridiculous. he wobbled the granite chinned margarito several times, he put mosley down with a single punch, he brutalized cotto for the better part of 12 rounds before the referee mercifully stepped in. he beat morales into submission and beat the fuck out of barrera. fighters with little power cant do that. its hard to knock good boxers out cold. u need devastating power to be able to do so. ricky hatton was battled tested and possessed a very good chin. manny laid that boy out.


well, if you knew anything about morales(i was living in baja when this fight went down) then you would know that eric was a major tj partier(coke) around this time and even got a girl pregnant who ended up working at adilitas.

thats why during this particular period(mid 90`s) mexicans revered morales over jmm and barrera, they could relate to him

if you believe that paq possessed one punch ko power then thats your opinion.

imo, the one punch ko of hatton is an aberration the same as sergios one punch of pw.

around this same time, nick diaz essentially one punched kod robbie lawler 
( who has never been kod on his feet, therafter) and no one would ever think that diaz is a ko artist.

shit happens


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Flash Jab said:


> Are you for real? Do you not understand the concept of a one punch knock out?
> 
> Now how do you say a dude hasn't got one punch knockout power when there's footage out there SHOWING YOU of his one punch knock out against iron chinned Paul Williams. How do you dispute that? And then go as far as to say Pacquiao hasn't got one punch knockout power after what he did to Hatton and also the shots he landed on Mosley and Cotto.
> 
> ...


do you connotate bernard hopkins as having one punch power?






i dont think anyone would say that bhop has one punch power

lipsey never fought again

MIND BOGGLIN' to think that anyone that follows boxing would think that because a fighter one punh kos a guy that it automatically makes him having one punch ko power


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## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

quincy k said:


> and no one would ever think that diaz is a ko artist.


Please stop talking shit.






Please? Don't lump Diaz in with your silly 'aberration' bullshit. He's a concussive puncher and he mixes his punches up well, it's like you don't understand how a punch works. You don't have a certain amount of power and if you land on anyone's chin, it's A vs. B. It's also about timing, if they see the punch coming, where it lands, how much force, speed, etc. If you knock out a bloke cold with your punch, you've got one punch knockout power. Case fucking closed. It's whether you can land it that counts and how the opponent is set up for it.

But I wouldn't disregard someone and say "oh that's not true one punch knockout power" when both of them hold some of the most vicious knockouts in the 21st century in any sport. That's just insulting.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Flash Jab said:


> Are you for real? Do you not understand the concept of a one punch knock out?
> 
> Now how do you say a dude hasn't got one punch knockout power when there's footage out there SHOWING YOU of his one punch knock out against iron chinned Paul Williams. How do you dispute that? And then go as far as to say Pacquiao hasn't got one punch knockout power after what he did to Hatton and also the shots he landed on Mosley and Cotto.
> 
> ...


:conf

I don't consider guys like Pac (at higher weights) and Martinez as one punch KO artists, like say the likes of Jackson, Hearns, ect, ect, ect...Why is that so hard to understand?


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Flash Jab said:


> Please stop talking shit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


daley gassed there after taking multiple shots as opposed to a one-punch ko

this is a one punch ko






diaz beats guys through an acculmulation of punches.

and if you knew what i was talking about you would know that robbie lawler has never been kod after that fight.

shit happens

you are completely clueless to even mention nick diaz with the words one punch ko


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## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> :conf
> 
> I don't consider guys like Pac (at higher weights) and Martinez as one punch KO artists, like say the likes of Jackson, Hearns, ect, ect, ect...Why is that so hard to understand?


Because they knocked out Hatton and Williams brutally?

And they both have other KO's and stoppages on their records along with impressive knockdowns?

Whatever I'mma pull away from the table before my head explodes. I can't argue with a person who tries to refute a dude's one punch knockout by saying he doesn't have one punch knockout power. There's no logic there. There's direct evidence.


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Flash Jab said:


> Because they knocked out Hatton and Williams brutally?
> 
> And they both have other KO's and stoppages on their records along with impressive knockdowns?
> 
> Whatever I'mma pull away from the table before my head explodes. I can't argue with a person who tries to refute a dude's one punch knockout by saying he doesn't have one punch knockout power. There's no logic there. There's direct evidence.


Do you consider guys like Wilfred Benitez and Pernell Whitaker as one punch KO artists too?


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Flash Jab said:


> Because they knocked out Hatton and Williams brutally?
> 
> And they both have other KO's and stoppages on their records along with impressive knockdowns?
> 
> Whatever I'mma pull away from the table before my head explodes. I can't argue with a person who tries to refute a dude's one punch knockout by saying he doesn't have one punch knockout power. There's no logic there. There's direct evidence.







pauli "one punch ko" malignaggi


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

Martinez KO 9


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## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

quincy k said:


> daley gassed there after taking multiple shots as opposed to a one-punch ko
> 
> this is a one punch ko
> 
> ...


I just can't stand an absolutely retarded opinion like "DIAZ DOESN'T HAVE ONE PUNCH KNOCKOUT POWER"

Like the evidence of him one punch KOing Lawler who's never been KO'd since like you say would actually backup that evidence more. But apparently it's not and it's a magical thing and a fluke in a fight where two blokes are trying to punch eachother, the other one lands and then he gets knocked out. Like there's some kind of phantom fucking punch god out there.

The Daley fight's a bit murky I'll admit on how it ends, I can't really tell if he lands a shot at the end but I don't think even the heaviest punchers, there's many guys who have such one punch knockout power as you say that they end a big deal of their fights by clean knockout. Because it's not just about power. It's punch placement. It's very rare to land them shots anyway.

But man have your opinion even if it's a load of shit. I just think it's hilarious to try and refute a dude for not having one punch knockout power despite actual factual documented evidence out there of both Pacquiao and Martinez landing massive shots on Hatton and Williams respectively and KOing them cold. Isn't that what a one punch knockout is or am I mis-speaking?

And I'd even go as far to listen to your argument if their career wasn't littered with impressive KO's anyway and KNOWN for their concussive power. It's more about punch placement, it's not like a fucking level of power from "shit, to knockout power, to every punch he lands is a 1pko". It's more about placement and timing.

It just annoys me. What a great thread this was, then you get on page 6 and people say Martinez doesn't have one punch power. Like are you for fucking real?



quincy k said:


> pauli "one punch ko" malignaggi


You are quite clearly delusional. Paulie Malignaggi injured his hands and that's why he has no pop in his punches. It's pretty simple, if a fist, and object with enough force in it really, hits your fucking chin with the right timing, velocity and power, you're going out. Paulie had injured hands, Hopkins hands don't seem remotely as powerful as what they were either, but Hopkins is a fucking freak anyway so I don't know if that's injured hands or he has some weird deal with a higher power to lose power the older he gets for the maintaining some of his more important attributes.

I mean why not pull up Joe Calzaghe knockouts from the past and now and say "HAHA DOESN'T HAVE ONE PUNCH KNOCKOUT POWER NOW DOES HE?"

No because he injured his fucking hands. You're moving the goal posts now. Your opinion on 1pko is astounding.


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## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

It'd be foolish to dismiss Sergio's one punch KO ability, especially in this fight. You're all over complicating the point though.

Sergio developed his power as he gained more belief in his own ability to knock someone out. After his KO of Williams, you saw him set his feet, and throw punches with more conviction than he had before. Now this didn't produce a highlight reel of one punch KO's but it did lead to solid knock out victories over big guys such as Barker and Macklin. Now, bear in mind Cotto is not impervious to hurt, as we've seen in several fights. Also bear in mind the potential/probable difference in size, and most importantly weight.

To dismiss the idea of Sergio being able to stop Cotto with a single shot, is idiotic IMO.


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## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Do you consider guys like Wilfred Benitez and Pernell Whitaker as one punch KO artists too?


This is a pointless argument imo. It depends what you see as a one punch knockout artist, cuz personally I don't think even the heaviest hitters have knockouts littered with ice cold knockouts, because it's more about timing and placement. I mean a heavier hitter especially is gonna have a harder time to knock a dude out cold when you think about it considering the dude is gonna be wary of the power and not as likely to be as caught cold. They'll feel the power, they'll get knocked out, the ref may stop it, but 1pko is more so about timing and this one punch knockout thing just becomes a murky situation. It's more likely to happen when one guy doesn't respect the other's power or he's not good enough or smart enough to avoid his shots, or maybe doesn't have his timing. Let's strip away the 'one punch knockout artist' bullshit because I don't believe in that fallacy really. There's power and there's getting the power to the chin, both different things. But I believe in one punch knockout power and if there's actual evidence of a dude knocking another out cold, then he's fucking got it. Don't try to refute it by saying "oh it's Paulie Malignaggi he's got no power." Yeah but why hasn't he got any power? Because his hands are fucked. It's ridiculous. That's not a fair argument at all.

This is just a proper unreal argument I can't believe I'm having :lol: I feel like I'm in a fucking pub with one time Hatton fans or something.


----------



## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> well, if you knew anything about morales(i was living in baja when this fight went down) then you would know that eric was a major tj partier(coke) around this time and even got a girl pregnant who ended up working at adilitas.
> 
> thats why during this particular period(mid 90`s) mexicans revered morales over jmm and barrera, they could relate to him
> 
> ...


he wasnt knocking these guys out cold because they were/are high caliber boxers. they all had very good chins. when manny fought lesser opponents, he knocked them out. he stopped diaz, hatton and cotto. he's not considered a ko artist because he's fighting top guys. we're talking some of the best fighters of all time. manny steward said that barrera was the most complete fighter he'd ever seen. morales was an excellent fighter. marquez at 130 and below was unbelievably skilled. his determination is awesome. pacquiao wobbled maragrito and broke his face. u think someone with mediocre power can do that? they fought at 150 and margarito was in amazing shape. he was ripped to shreds. he looked huge in there. and it's not just pacquiao's speed, it's his power as well. if it were just the speed, khan would also be a huge puncher. u think khan couldve knocked mosley down with a single punch? u think he couldve busted margarito's face? i certainly dont.


----------



## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> It'd be foolish to dismiss Sergio's one punch KO ability, especially in this fight. You're all over complicating the point though.
> 
> Sergio developed his power as he gained more belief in his own ability to knock someone out. After his KO of Williams, you saw him set his feet, and throw punches with more conviction than he had before. Now this didn't produce a highlight reel of one punch KO's but it did lead to solid knock out victories over big guys such as Barker and Macklin. Now, bear in mind Cotto is not impervious to hurt, as we've seen in several fights. Also bear in mind the potential/probable difference in size, and most importantly weight.
> 
> To dismiss the idea of Sergio being able to stop Cotto with a single shot, is idiotic IMO.


williams had a pretty good chin too. to knock him out with a single punch is really something. there's no doubt in my mind that martinez can stop cotto. didnt he break a bone in chavez's face? dudes with little power can't do that.


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> TBF, Manny isn't a one punch guy at 140lbs/147lbs...Manny caught hatton with a perfect punch...Just like Martinez did to Williams in their rematch, and Marquez to Pacquiao in their 4th.


who then in your opinion possesses one-punch knockout power? what's the definition of one-punch knockout power?


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> It'd be foolish to dismiss Sergio's one punch KO ability, especially in this fight. You're all over complicating the point though.
> 
> Sergio developed his power as he gained more belief in his own ability to knock someone out. After his KO of Williams, you saw him set his feet, and throw punches with more conviction than he had before. Now this didn't produce a highlight reel of one punch KO's but it did lead to solid knock out victories over big guys such as Barker and Macklin. Now, bear in mind Cotto is not impervious to hurt, as we've seen in several fights. Also bear in mind the potential/probable difference in size, and most importantly weight.
> 
> *To dismiss the idea of Sergio being able to stop Cotto with a single shot, is idiotic IMO.*


Oh i've never dismissed that thought at all...It wouldn't suprise me one bit if Sergio stopped Cotto in a similar fashion as Williams.

I just don't consider him a one punch KO artist, like a Julian Jackson and the like, ya know?


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> who then in your opinion possesses one-punch knockout power? what's the definition of one-punch knockout power?


Julian Jackson, Danny Lopez, Naseem Hamed, Ruben Olivares, Tito Trinidad, Thomas Hearns, ect, ect, ect...


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## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Oh i've never dismissed that thought at all...It wouldn't suprise me one bit if Sergio stopped Cotto in a similar fashion as Williams.
> 
> I just don't consider him a one punch KO artist, like a Julian Jackson and the like, ya know?


You're right mate. He's a solid puncher, not a concussive one.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Flash Jab said:


> I just can't stand an absolutely retarded opinion like "DIAZ DOESN'T HAVE ONE PUNCH KNOCKOUT POWER"
> 
> Like the evidence of him one punch KOing Lawler who's never been KO'd since like you say would actually backup that evidence more. But apparently it's not and it's a magical thing and a fluke in a fight where two blokes are trying to punch eachother, the other one lands and then he gets knocked out. Like there's some kind of phantom fucking punch god out there.
> 
> ...


well, what about chris bryd, he has some one punch kos

did he injure his hands as well?

and why doesnt nick diaz have anymore one punch kos after robbie?

let me guess, he injured his hands as well?

keith holmes?

bad hands?

felix sturm and carlos molina

they got some one punch kos as well

let me guess...

bad hands?


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> williams had a pretty good chin too. to knock him out with a single punch is really something. there's no doubt in my mind that martinez can stop cotto. didnt he break a bone in chavez's face? dudes with little power can't do that.


agreed.

but imo the one punch ko of williams was not the norm and was the anomoly and his record proves that


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> Julian Jackson, Danny Lopez, *Naseem Hamed*, Ruben Olivares, Tito Trinidad, Thomas Hearns, ect, ect, ect...


then how come he couldnt hurt barrera? manny pacquiao mopped the floor with him.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> then how come he couldnt hurt barrera? manny pacquiao mopped the floor with him.


why couldnt tyson hurt lewis?

50 percent ko ratio oliver mcall mopped the floor with him


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> Julian Jackson, Danny Lopez, Naseem Hamed, Ruben Olivares, Tito Trinidad, Thomas Hearns, ect, ect, ect...


youre talking about guys with all time great power. we just have a different definition of one-punch knockout power. what you call one-punch ko power, i'd call freakish power.


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> why couldnt tyson hurt lewis?
> 
> 50 percent ko ratio oliver mcall mopped the floor with him


it was a dumb comparison. :S


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> then how come he couldnt hurt barrera? manny pacquiao mopped the floor with him.


Pacquiao didn't exactly KO'ed him cold with one shot now did he? He beat the shit out of him for 11 straight rounds and forced a stoppage.

Nassem couldn't get him with a hard flush shot, due to Barrera's excellent defense that night...Had Naseem caught him with a shot like the ones Pacquiao was catching Barrera with, you bet he would have KO'ed him.


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> youre talking about guys with all time great power. we just have a different definition of one-punch knockout power. what you call one-punch ko power, i'd call freakish power.


Exactly.

Guys with freakish power = one punch KO _artists_.

Thats how i see it anyway.

Just to be clear, i NEVER intended to say that Pacquiao and Martinez don't have any power, it's obvious that they do. I Just don't consider them one punch KO artists.


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> Pacquiao didn't exactly KO'ed him cold with one shot now did he? He beat the shit out of him for 11 straight rounds and forced a stoppage.
> 
> Nassem couldn't get him with a hard flush shot, due to Barrera's excellent defense that night...Had Naseem caught him with a shot like the ones Pacquiao was catching Barrera with, you bet he would have KO'ed him.


we could go back and forth forever. i see what you mean. :cheers


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> we could go back and forth forever. i see what you mean. :cheers


:good

It's all good.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> he wasnt knocking these guys out cold because they were/are high caliber boxers. they all had very good chins. when manny fought lesser opponents, he knocked them out. he stopped diaz, hatton and cotto. he's not considered a ko artist because he's fighting top guys. we're talking some of the best fighters of all time. manny steward said that barrera was the most complete fighter he'd ever seen. morales was an excellent fighter. marquez at 130 and below was unbelievably skilled. his determination is awesome. pacquiao wobbled maragrito and broke his face. u think someone with mediocre power can do that? they fought at 150 and margarito was in amazing shape. he was ripped to shreds. he looked huge in there. and it's not just pacquiao's speed, it's his power as well. if it were just the speed, khan would also be a huge puncher. u think khan couldve knocked mosley down with a single punch? u think he couldve busted margarito's face? i certainly dont.


there is a difference between a person that has one punch power and a guy that has power.

paq undoubtedly has power

he is just not the type of person who you would connotate as having one punch power(especially at 147) the same a sergio.

the both would damage guys after an accumulation of shots do to their great work rate.


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> there is a difference between a person that has one punch power and a guy that has power.
> 
> paq undoubtedly has power
> 
> ...


yeah, at 147 he's definitely not a huge puncher. sergio isnt a huge puncher either, but they both have very respectable power.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Cotto on the slip bag:


__
http://instagr.am/p/n87wzyGfnN/

Highlights from Martinez's camp:


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## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

quincy k said:


> there is a difference between a person that has one punch power and a guy that has power.
> 
> paq undoubtedly has power
> 
> ...


Then why did Pacquiao put Hatton, Marquez, Cotto and Mosley on their arses multiple times?

None of those knockdowns were down to an accumulation of shots either.

Christ, you just have no idea what you're on about if you seriously think Pacquiao scores his knockouts with his work rate and accumulation. In many ways it's become one of his worst qualities.

And Martinez's record is littered with knockdowns like that too. If you can knock a guy down, you can knock him out. Cuz it's anatomy. You land a shot that lands on the chin, it makes them lose control of their legs, they go down, if they recover they get back up. A lot of it is also about timing and if the opponent see's the shot. I like the theory that it's the shots you don't see that hurt you the most, and if you're in the ring with a banger, you might get hurt but knowing it's coming or what he's hitting you with is half the battle. That's why it's hard to completely knock a dude out if you're a massive puncher, believe it or not. If a figher trains for you, knows you're a banger, then they know what to expect. It's if they can hit you without you seeing it which is the danger, and Pacquiao is blindingly fast often. It's almost always his counter punching that gets these knockdowns and knockouts, and wouldn't you know it? They don't see it coming.

Like seriously mate I don't mean to offend but you're talking so much bollocks it's unreal.

Like, there's a good reason why Pacquiao isn't starching these guys like he used to, and it's not just because he's showing mercy. When the guy comes to him, he's very good at countering and taking them out, it's when they back off and go into survival mode that he finds it hard to KO guys. He's never been a beast coming forward in terms of knocking guys out. But that doesn't mean he doesn't have one punch power, because that often comes from shots the guy just doesn't see because they're either throwing, they're fast or they don't know how to defend. It's not a power scale like you think it is. That's why he's not taking them out, but to say he doesn't have one punch knockout power. It's unbelievable to me. Like what evidence do you need to have that Pacquiao has that power?










Like is this not enough? Would you like a sketch? A painting? A re-enacment? A documentary? A sonnet? What do you want?


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> then how come he couldnt hurt barrera? manny pacquiao mopped the floor with him.


Hamed really didn't land that cleanly on Barrera all that often. Barrera had a really good chin. It took a while for Pacquiao to really beat him down. More of an attrition type thing. I guarantee you wouldn't be able to take the beating Pacquiao dished out to Barrera.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Flash Jab said:


> Then why did Pacquiao put Hatton, Marquez, Cotto and Mosley on their arses multiple times?
> 
> None of those knockdowns were down to an accumulation of shots either.
> 
> ...


well, how about another one punch ko other than hatton?


 Lb St Kg | *↑*date*↓* | ratings off on|print

dateLbopponentLbW-L-Dlast 6location2014-04-12145Timothy Bradley145½*31*-*0*-*0*

MGM Grand, Grand Garden Arena, Las Vegas, Nevada, USAWUD1212
referee: Kenny Bayless | judge: Michael Pernick 116-112 | judge: Glenn Trowbridge 118-110 | judge: Craig Metcalfe 116-112 
WBO welterweight title (supervisor: Francisco Valcarcel) 2013-11-24145Brandon Rios146½*31*-*1*-*1*

Cotai Arena, Venetian Resort, Macao, Macao S.A.R., ChinaWUD1212
referee: Genaro Rodriguez | judge: Lisa Giampa 119-109 | judge: Michael Pernick 120-108 | judge: Manfred Kuechler 118-110 
vacant WBO International welterweight title 2012-12-08147Juan Manuel Marquez143*54*-*6*-*1*

MGM Grand, Grand Garden Arena, Las Vegas, Nevada, USALKO612
time: 2:59 | referee: Kenny Bayless | judge: Adalaide Byrd 47-46 | judge: Steve Weisfeld 47-46 | judge: John Keane 47-46 2012-06-09147Timothy Bradley146*28*-*0*-*0*

MGM Grand, Grand Garden Arena, Las Vegas, Nevada, USALSD1212
referee: Robert Byrd | judge: Duane Ford 113-115 | judge: C.J. Ross 113-115 | judge: Jerry Roth 115-113 
WBO welterweight title (supervisor: Istvan Kovacs) 2011-11-12143Juan Manuel Marquez142*53*-*5*-*1*

MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada, USAWMD1212
referee: Tony Weeks | judge: Dave Moretti 115-113 | judge: Robert Hoyle 114-114 | judge: Glenn Trowbridge 116-112 
WBO welterweight title (supervisor: Francisco Valcarcel)
Contracted weight: 144 lbs. 2011-05-07145Shane Mosley147*46*-*6*-*1*

MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada, USAWUD1212
referee: Kenny Bayless | judge: Duane Ford 120-107 | judge: Dave Moretti 120-108 | judge: Glenn Trowbridge 119-108 
WBO welterweight title (supervisor: Leon Panoncillo)
Mosley knocked down once in round 3 2010-11-13144½Antonio Margarito150*38*-*6*-*0*

Cowboys Stadium, Arlington, Texas, USAWUD1212
referee: Laurence Cole | judge: Oren Shellenberger 119-109 | judge: Juergen Langos 120-108 | judge: Glen Rick Crocker 118-110 
vacant WBC light middleweight title (supervisor: Jose Sulaiman) 2010-03-13145¾Joshua Clottey147*35*-*3*-*0*

Cowboys Stadium, Arlington, Texas, USAWUD1212
referee: Rafael Ramos | judge: Levi Martinez 119-109 | judge: Nelson Vazquez 119-109 | judge: Duane Ford 120-108 
WBO welterweight title 2009-11-14144Miguel Cotto145*34*-*1*-*0*

MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada, USAWTKO1212
time: 0:55 | referee: Kenny Bayless | judge: Adalaide Byrd 109-99 | judge: Duane Ford 108-99 | judge: Dave Moretti 108-100 
WBO welterweight title 2009-05-02138Ricky Hatton140*45*-*1*-*0*

MGM Grand, Grand Garden Arena, Las Vegas, Nevada, USAWKO212 

in fact,

how about just another ko?


----------



## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

quincy k said:


> well, how about another one punch ko other than hatton?


You mean more evidence of a one punch KO than an actual one punch KO?

There's a bunch of other KO's on his record, I can't say anything about them since the first Pacquiao match I watched was Marquez II, but that doesn't change the fact that Pacquiao has the power to knock down his opponents and as shown by Hatton, the power to take them out completely. It's only because they go on the backfoot he can't finish them.

But we will never agree so we might as well stop. Your idea of one punch knockout is a power level. There's no power at all, power and then one punch KO power, which I frankly don't agree with. Either you have power or you don't. Pacquiao has power. If you have the power to knock out your opponent cold, you have one punch knock out power. Simple. You can bring up all these examples of Hopkins and Malignaggi and poke fun at whatever hand injuries they have or how they don't have it now but at some point they had it, and age, injuries or just not landing that shot perfectly changes that. I don't believe in a one punch knockout artist because it's harder to knock out guys cold when you're feared and respected for your power. How many guys did Tyson knock out? How many of them were ice cold as opposed to just absolute decimation and a stoppage or unable to get up?

But I really feel you've pissed on a great thread with your stupid insight to one punch KOing, when it's such a simple thing. If you have the power to knock a dude down, you have the power to KO him, it's just shot placement. One punch knockouts are rare, and to say Martinez and Pacquiao don't have it is flat out ridiculous. I mean, Martinez is fighting Cotto anyway for fuck sake, who got flash KD's twice against Pacquiao with counter shots he did not see. After the second one, Cotto was done. Now if Pacquiao can knock Hatton spark out and hurt Cotto that much, why is that not down to how great Cotto's chin is and resilience rather than Pacquiao not having one punch knockout power when he's clearly demonstrated it, even in fight against top competition. Plus to get a 1pko against top level opponents is a very hard thing to do in it's own right.

What if Cotto hadn't went on the backfoot and kept coming at Pacquiao like Hatton did? You think he'd keep getting up after 12 knockdowns?

George Foreman was one of the hardest punchers of all time and he couldn't KO Frazier. I believe that's because Frazier respected his power but couldn't do anything about it.

I mean I'm showing an absolute example of a one punch knockout to prove a dude has it, and you're bringing up Paulie Malignaggi who has broken hands now and saying "show me more." How is that fair? Having one punch knockout power does not mean "oh the dude goes on a tear and 1pko's everyone fight after fight". It's a rare thing, I don't know too many true 1pko artists.

But I could go round in circles with this so I'll just bite my tongue. You obviously have a different take on it, no matter how retarded it is. I can't do any more than show you a bloke out cold on the floor due to another dude knocking him unconscious mate. That's a pretty clear example. And to put that down as a fluke when you're missing the point is just as I said before, mind boggling.

It's like you seem to think I'm saying Pacquiao or Martinez are one punch knockout artists. No, I'm saying they have the power to knock you out cold _because_ they've shown clear as day crystal examples as well as showing their power to knock guys down not with accumulating damage, yes they have stoppages because of that, but they have many more examples of catching guy's cold, putting them down and hurting them. Paul Williams and Ricky Hatton are the examples of that, I'm not gonna youtube all of Pacquiao and Martinez's KO's on their resume to prove my point further (and you probably wouldn't see my point anyway by your retorts) because even the hardest hitters don't have a ton of them. If they do that's a true one punch knock out artist, but I'm not saying either man is. I'm saying they have that power, and I don't understand how you can write it off and then bring up Malignaggi or even say "show me another".

tl;dr


















"these guys don't have one punch knockout power"


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

  156½Edson Espinoza156½*debut*

Monumental Plaza de Toros, Mexico City, Distrito Federal, MexicoWTKO14
 time: 2:58 2011-04-09158James Kirkland158*27*-*0*-*0*

MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada, USAWTKO18


Nobuhiro Ishida  Global ID*24450*sexmalebirthdate1975-08-18 (age 38)suspensionsreportmanager/agentregisterdivisionheavyweightrating130 / 1111

2 / 4stanceorthodoxheight6′ 1½″ / 187cmreach72″ / 183cm
US ID060107countryJapanresidenceOsaka, Osaka, Japanbirth placeKumamoto, Japanwon *25* (KO 10) + lost *10* (KO 1) + drawn *2* = *37*
rounds boxed *277* KO% *27.03* 

"like manny pacquiao and sergio martinez i dont consider nobuhiro ishida to have one punch knockout power even though he has kod fighters with one punch"

a prime sergio(dzin,chavez,pavlik) would in all likelihood ko small cotto but do to his injuries he only sits as a -200, roughly what he went off at against chavez jr.

and chavez jr would beat the wholly living shit out of cotto


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## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

Cotto is going to suffer by far, his most brutal and one sided loss, to Sergio.

Cotto won't have the power to trouble Sergio, and Sergio will walk him down.


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## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

martinez by stoppage

the size difference is too much. And martinez has that awkward angle and speed, so he is going to land a few flush. Martinez has been fighting guys who are 175-180 pounds. Cotto is too small.


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## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

Flash Jab said:


> You mean more evidence of a one punch KO than an actual one punch KO?
> 
> There's a bunch of other KO's on his record, I can't say anything about them since the first Pacquiao match I watched was Marquez II, but that doesn't change the fact that Pacquiao has the power to knock down his opponents and as shown by Hatton, the power to take them out completely. It's only because they go on the backfoot he can't finish them.
> 
> ...


I think theres more to power than just one punch KO's. Youre talking about foreman not being able to do it to fraizer... but by that logic are you saying Marquez has better power p4p than foreman because he one punch KOed pac?


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## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

elterrible said:


> I think theres more to power than just one punch KO's. Youre talking about foreman not being able to do it to fraizer... *but by that logic are you saying Marquez has better power p4p than foreman because he one punch KOed pac?*












How is that by my logic? What.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bhopheadbut said:


> sergio talks about his injuries
> 
> http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/338259-sergio-martinez-i-feared-i-would-never-walk-again
> 
> ...


Interesting stuff about the knee, fascinating about the cartilage reformation and stuff.

I posted a vid with a brief summary/translation here:

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-up-news-etc&p=1202905&viewfull=1#post1202905


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

Uh oh!!!!

"I'm just the same as I was when there was no knee problem." - @maravillabox says after 9 months of recuperation from surgery.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Tarman (Jun 16, 2012)

Not Cotto related but what a crazy night that was


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

:smile Didnt think id really care for this fight but im pretty hyped


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## Concrete (Oct 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


>


Cotto looks so focused. I think so many people are calling for Cotto to get beat down that I think he surprises many. I want to call for the upset but I just can't. One thing I am interested in seeing is that Martinez has gotten off by being the better athlete then all his latest opponent who have been big strong stiffs. I wonder if facing a smaller quicker opponent then he has been fighting will give him more problems then expected.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Concrete said:


> Cotto looks so focused. I think so many people are calling for Cotto to get beat down that I think he surprises many. I want to call for the upset but I just can't. One thing I am interested in seeing is that Martinez has gotten off by being the better athlete then all his latest opponent who have been big strong stiffs. I wonder if facing a smaller quicker opponent then he has been fighting will give him more problems then expected.


Yeah interesting point about athleticism, it would be interesting to see them both operate with a similar quickness of foot. I think Cotto plans on coming in lean.


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## PJ. (Jun 6, 2013)

I hope Margarito gets a ringside seat


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## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah interesting point about athleticism, it would be interesting to see them both operate with a similar quickness of foot. I think Cotto plans on coming in lean.


With a 159 pound limit, Cotto can't help but come in lean.


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

Somehow....I would be ok with the winner fighting Brickfist


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Thanks a lot for those @Theron! I look forward to watching them.


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## efc_dynasty (Jul 27, 2013)

thanks for those vids mate !


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

I get the sense HBO is backing Martinez here.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Miguel shadowboxing during today's media workout:


__
http://instagr.am/p/ojh_uvGfu1/


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## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

@Bogotazo Seems like there is an emphasis on getting into position to land the right hand. Might just be me, but I think he is looking physically very good; strong, reasonably quick, light on his feet, and athletic.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

JMP said:


> @Bogotazo Seems like there is an emphasis on getting into position to land the right hand. Might just be me, but I think he is looking physically very good; strong, reasonably quick, light on his feet, and athletic.


Yeah I like what I'm seeing. I predict the right hand will play more of a part than people think. I like his footwork getting an angle on either side and the use of the lead hand to measure and parry. The in and out movement is also great because it can offset Martinez's commitment to his shots. Martinez pulls away naked and they look like they're trying to exploit that also.

Thanks for posting this man! I'm hyped :ibutt


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## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

Delete


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## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

JMP said:


> @Bogotazo Seems like there is an emphasis on getting into position to land the right hand. Might just be me, but I think he is looking physically very good; strong, reasonably quick, light on his feet, and athletic.


The guy Cotto is sparring there is so much shorter, smaller & less reach than Sergio, I can't help but think the sparring would be counterproductive.


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

Roach claims Martinez has no defense and Cotto will win by stoppage by the 4th. "He's a great athlete but not a great boxer." One thing is for sure, Martinez's defense has been pretty damn leaky lately. He doesn't have an inherent stance-based defense with his low-hands style. I imagine his reflexes are fading and he's getting hit a lot more because of it. So Roach is not entirely wrong in his assessment, maybe not for the right reasons.


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## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

That sparring video made me smile, have they considered what to do if Sergio decides to stand and punch with Cotto?


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Martinez decision! 

Lets go :bbb


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

PetetheKing said:


> Roach claims Martinez has no defense and Cotto will win by stoppage by the 4th. "He's a great athlete but not a great boxer." One thing is for sure, Martinez's defense has been pretty damn leaky lately. He doesn't have an inherent stance-based defense with his low-hands style. I imagine his reflexes are fading and he's getting hit a lot more because of it. So Roach is not entirely wrong in his assessment, maybe not for the right reasons.


In Roach's mind if you have your hands down against one of his offensive fighters, you won't win. Chavez Jr. fucked up his chance but showed what he had the potential to do with Martinez up against the ropes. I wouldn't say having your hands down makes you a "poor boxer" because there's a method to the madness, but if they don't have a backup plan when that's exploited then it can be considered a flaw. Martinez overs up well on the inside but he's naked pulling away.

I think I'm going to gif every time Martinez has been knocked down since Williams 1 and pinpoint what his vulnerabilities are.



KERRIGAN said:


> The guy Cotto is sparring there is so much shorter, smaller & less reach than Sergio, I can't help but think the sparring would be counterproductive.


This is obviously more akin to shadow boxing than sparring. Just moving and picking spots without committing.


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## PJ. (Jun 6, 2013)

F Martinez.. war Cotto!!!!


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> That sparring video made me smile, have they considered what to do if Sergio decides to stand and punch with Cotto?


Seems to me like they'd step back and deny him the ability to sit down on his shots. Cotto was pressuring but also seemed willing to bounce around in there and dictate the pace.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Alright, here it is, all of Martinez's knockdowns, suffering at least one in 5 of his last 8 fights. As I said before he pulls away naked and that's the main flaw of his hands-down style, he's not quite as graceful during his lateral escapes, or in awkward moments on the inside.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

Sergio an this guy have nothing in common as far as size. Cotto is a great guy. You can tell by the way he respects people.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

A great guy for Cotto so spar with if he is still sparworthy is Winky Wright.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

MAG1965 said:


> A great guy for Cotto so spar with if he is still sparworthy is Winky Wright.


Winky's not really mobile though. And keeps a famously tight guard. Kind of the opposite of Martinez.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Winky's not really mobile though. And keeps a famously tight guard. Kind of the opposite of Martinez.


that is true, but the speed and size would mimic better. I liked seeing how Cotto was trying to right hand when his sparring partner moved to the left. That right hand is the key for Cotto. Wonder if he can hurt Martinez with it.


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## r1p00pk (Jun 13, 2013)




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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> In Roach's mind if you have your hands down against one of his offensive fighters, you won't win. Chavez Jr. fucked up his chance but showed what he had the potential to do with Martinez up against the ropes. I wouldn't say having your hands down makes you a "poor boxer" because there's a method to the madness, but if they don't have a backup plan when that's exploited then it can be considered a flaw. Martinez overs up well on the inside but he's naked pulling away.


Oh, I wouldn't make that statement either. There's certainly a method to the madness as you say. You're right, and I think Roach sees Martinez as being pretty hittable because frankly he has been in his last 3-4 fights. Some of it might be Martinez's legs but a lot of it comes down to his reflexes I think. He can't pull back in time. Pacquaio is having a lot of the same troubles lately in my opinion, but he at least tries to keep his gloves up. But Pac doesn't pull back from punches in the same way. When you're an aggressive fighter this is probably more of a technical flaw. Relying on your reflexes for defense is always a dangerous game.

Let's also be honest and recognize Roach has been saying something rather far-fetched stuff lately. He said Bradley and Rios were the same action-type fighters basically. Martinez is more than just an athlete but I think he has some flaws.

I wonder about Martinez's ranginess and power. He's clearly bigger and faster so Cotto has be technical sound and really strategically strong . You'd think his margin of error would be a little less considering Martinez's size.


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## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

all that being said, saying and thinking that his fighter will win in 4 rounds is probably the wrong way for Roach to look at things...


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

r1p00pk said:


>


Looking sharp. That right hand is looking good. Cotto also seems comfortable and happy in this environment.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Alright, here it is, all of Martinez's knockdowns, suffering at least one in 5 of his last 8 fights. As I said before he pulls away naked and that's the main flaw of his hands-down style, he's not quite as graceful during his lateral escapes, or in awkward moments on the inside.


Macklin doing the Charlie Zelenoff, "Declaration of Victory". :lol:


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

KERRIGAN said:


> Macklin doing the Charlie Zelenoff, "Declaration of Victory". :lol:


:lol:


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## Mushin (Dec 12, 2013)

I think Cotto will have some success early but Martinez should win by KO, if he's not completely washed up.


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## MrJotatp4p (May 23, 2013)

Cotto is going to get his ass tore up from the round 1 on. Even at this stage of Martinez's career he will still be too much and lets not act like he didn't just lose to Trout recently either who isn't as good as a faded Martinez. I honestly see Cotto getting caught with an uppercut early and put on his ass in round 2. Martinez isn't playing around around and is up for this fight.


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

i believe if martinez loses badly,they will make a martinez-pac fight with a ridiculous catchweight

sent from my mom's landline using tapatalk


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## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

DobyZhee said:


> i believe if martinez loses badly,they will make a martinez-pac fight with a ridiculous catchweight


There would be no demand for such a fight if Martinez loses badly to Cotto.

:doby


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## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

Martinez will pelt Cotto with jab/left cross combo's as he tries to get close...I don't see Cotto going the distance.


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## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

KERRIGAN said:


> There would be no demand for such a fight if Martinez loses badly to Cotto.
> 
> :doby


When has that stopped Bob.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

KERRIGAN said:


> The guy Cotto is sparring there is so much shorter, smaller & less reach than Sergio, I can't help but think the sparring would be counterproductive.


That's Roach's assisstent trainer it isn't really sparring it's more like drills I'm sure he has the right sparring partners for Martinez (as far as that's possible Martinez is quite unique)


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## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Cotto is getting stopped a bleeding mess imo.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> i believe if martinez loses badly,they will make a martinez-pac fight with a ridiculous catchweight
> 
> sent from my mom's landline using tapatalk


too bad. The catchweights ruin that fight and any fight. They are not as legit. What is Roy Jones had beaten a 200 pound Tyson. Should that help his legacy?


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

They tried to say Froch vs. Groves would be a war like Hagler and Hearns. I think this one is more like it. I think Martinez will be totally overconfident, and I want to see how he reacts if his punches do not hurt Cotto as much as he thinks in the first few rounds.


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

MAG1965 said:


> They tried to say Froch vs. Groves would be a war like Hagler and Hearns. I think this one is more like it. I think Martinez will be totally overconfident, and I want to see how he reacts if his punches do not hurt Cotto as much as he thinks in the first few rounds.


i think martinez is going to be smart about this. i think he s gonna study cotto for a few rounds. martinez cant move the way he used to so, in a way, he has to develop a new style. he's going to pick his shots more. martinez packs a serious punch at 160. cotto, at 147, wasnt even considered a big puncher.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> cotto, at 147, wasnt even considered a big puncher.


There is what he did to Rodriguez though. It was odd to see him impacted so much by the weight of Cotto's shots. Obviously Cotto was able to hit him cleaner than he can most elite opponents, but I was surprised to see a guy known for gritting out tough fights at 154 to be blasted out by little Miguel.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> i think martinez is going to be smart about this. i think he s gonna study cotto for a few rounds. martinez cant move the way he used to so, in a way, he has to develop a new style. he's going to pick his shots more. martinez packs a serious punch at 160. cotto, at 147, wasnt even considered a big puncher.


it is a interesting fight. I can see how Martinez might have an easy time hurting Cotto on size, but that might make it so that Cotto fights back out of defense, and Martinez might get caught since I think Cotto punches harder than Martinez thinks or respects. if Martinez comes in and tries to figure out Cotto, that is his best bet. Cotto might need some opportunities which Martinez being overconfident would provide.


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

martinez done guys..you heard it here first

sent from my mom's landline using tapatalk


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

Don't want to overact but seemed like Martinez was training all wrong. I guess rehabiliting and strengthening your shoulders and legs but hammer/bicep curls aren't going to do you anything good for fighting. I saw that and then saw Cotto's team and it was night and day. Cotto's conditioning coach elicited with a quote about how much of boxing training is so dated and I felt that captured the differences between the two teams. I don't know when that was taped but if I saw that kind of lifting much earlier in the camp I wouldn't think much of it but we're getting kind of close to the fight now... 

The funny thing is when I saw Martinez punching the bag before they showed his gym-workouts I thought he looked kind of slower in the hand-speed department. If that was the case now I know why.


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> martinez done guys..you heard it here first
> 
> sent from my mom's landline using tapatalk


assholes everywhere have been saying this for a while. u must be drinkin'.


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## r1p00pk (Jun 13, 2013)

PetetheKing said:


> Don't want to overact but seemed like Martinez was training all wrong. I guess rehabiliting and strengthening your shoulders and legs but hammer/bicep curls aren't going to do you anything good for fighting. I saw that and then saw Cotto's team and it was night and day. Cotto's conditioning coach elicited with a quote about how much of boxing training is so dated and I felt that captured the differences between the two teams. I don't know when that was taped but if I saw that kind of lifting much earlier in the camp I wouldn't think much of it but we're getting kind of close to the fight now...
> 
> The funny thing is when I saw Martinez punching the bag before they showed his gym-workouts I thought he looked kind of slower in the hand-speed department. If that was the case now I know why.


well judging from how muscular his arm has been through his whole career , he's been doing that type of arm workouts his whole career. the typical boxing only body tends to lack the triceps for arms like canelo, Roy Jones etc.that is just from boxing I mean. Martinez is up in age we shouldn't be surprised that his hand speed has slowed. Pure speculation of course, not saying your wrong either I just believe that these are the type of workouts he's been doing ever since he moved up to 160.


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

r1p00pk said:


> well judging from how muscular his arm has been through his whole career , he's been doing that type of arm workouts his whole career. the typical boxing only body tends to lack the triceps for arms like canelo, Roy Jones etc.that is just from boxing I mean. Martinez is up in age we shouldn't be surprised that his hand speed has slowed. Pure speculation of course, not saying your wrong either I just believe that these are the type of workouts he's been doing ever since he moved up to 160.


You could be right. But in terms of the 24/7 training Cotto camp looks far superior regardless of whether Martinez usually does or doesn't train like that. It shouldn't make a ton of difference come fight night (Especially if that's something he usually does) but it was something a little surprising, and not really the kind of thing I'd want to see so close to the fight if I was a Martinez fan. I was thinking this especially because he's fighting a smaller guy and you'd think quickness and mobility would be something he'd key more on...


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## ChicoTheBoy (Jun 5, 2013)

PetetheKing said:


> You could be right. But in terms of the 24/7 training Cotto camp looks far superior regardless of whether Martinez usually does or doesn't train like that. It shouldn't make a ton of difference come fight night (Especially if that's something he usually does) but it was something a little surprising, and not really the kind of thing I'd want to see so close to the fight if I was a Martinez fan. I was thinking this especially because he's fighting a smaller guy and you'd think quickness and mobility would be something he'd key more on...


He could be going for that early KO also...Cottos camp is probably far more advanced true, but Cotto changes camps like he changes underwear. May not be the best thing either. Sergio will probably be somewhere in between his Jr and Murray performances, just a matter of if Cotto can handle that.


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## r1p00pk (Jun 13, 2013)

PetetheKing said:


> You could be right. But in terms of the 24/7 training Cotto camp looks far superior regardless of whether Martinez usually does or doesn't train like that. It shouldn't make a ton of difference come fight night (Especially if that's something he usually does) but it was something a little surprising, and not really the kind of thing I'd want to see so close to the fight if I was a Martinez fan. I was thinking this especially because he's fighting a smaller guy and you'd think quickness and mobility would be something he'd key more on...


of course, his new s&c coach seems to be doing a good job. I was hoping the delvin fight would've been longer to answer the stamina question but then we'd all be saying how Cotto is done for not knocking a guy like delvin out. Cotto seems to look quite fresh ever since he started with roach in terms of how lean he is. he's still chubby at the weight but not to the point where he usually is. Cotto came into camp looking to be near fight shape compared to how when he did the trailer for the trough fight? anybody see how fat he looked in it? my god I was shocked. I personally think that Cotto looks like he could shock everyone and really win but I've watched enough fights to know that 24/7s and Showtime's version of it don't always show who the winner is.


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## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

ChicoTheBoy said:


> but Cotto changes camps like he changes underwear.


After watching that 24/7, I don't think Cotto wears underwear. :sad5


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


>


Even if this were not Cotto but just some guy posing up there, that is a great picture.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Martinez showing off his jab (video):


__
http://instagr.am/p/ov-9l2mfgQ/

Workout photos:


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)




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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

I know it doesn't mean much, but Cotto is looking really, really good in his training camp. He's looking very lean and athletic. I'm very excited for this fight; I hope Cotto pulls the upset.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

*Sergio Martinez not Allowed to Wear a Knee Brace*

http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles-frontpage/18712-first-glovegate-now-bracegate-sergio-knee-braces-a-no-go-in-nyc

Before anyone goes on about Miguel Cotto making demands, the source says it's a ruling by the New York State Athletic Commission. The source also says that Lou Dibella said, "Sergio is pissed."

It's kind of funny because Chavez Jr. wearing a knee brace during his fight with Martinez struck my mind.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

absolute bullshit


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Ahh, shit, I forgot about the dedicated thread. @Bogotazo, if you don't mind, I'd like this to be merged with that thread. Damn, totally forgot atsch.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Wow, this is just as cowardly as Mayweather requesting his Foe to wear pillows..

Pathetic..

WE all know Cotto had a hand in this... with all his drama queen antics


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> Wow, this is just as cowardly as Mayweather requesting his Foe to wear pillows..
> 
> Pathetic..
> 
> WE all know Cotto had a hand in this... with all his drama queen antics


Making your opponent handicapped with 1 leg isn't as bad as making him wearing extra padding on his gloves. Maidana's gloves had less padding than Floyd's

edit: other way around


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## BoxingJabsBlog (Sep 20, 2013)

Flat out fucking bullshit.

Sergio needs to wear the long leg sleeve tights that some guys wear for fashion and try to sneak it through.


Man what f'n bullshit though


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> absolute bullshit


I don't like Martinez, but I actually agree. The source said Dibella had the mindset that NFL and NBA athletes wear them; it's pretty much settled that they aren't performance enhancing. Martinez says he feels 100%, but wanted to use the brace to protect his injured knee. The source said he wanted to wear them on both knees. NYSAC cited a ruling by the Medical Advisory Board in 2013 :conf.


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Ridiculous.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> WE all know Cotto had a hand in this... with all his drama queen antics


Right, because being the A-Side in promotional negotiations is the same thing as forcing an athletic commission to handicap your opponent :rolleyes


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

That sucks, he should be allowed to wear the brace.


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## R00ster (Jan 29, 2014)

KERRIGAN said:


> There would be no demand for such a fight if Martinez loses badly to Cotto.
> 
> :doby


:rofl:rofl:rofl Oh my fucking god dude, what the hell is this?!


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## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Stupid decision by the NYSAC. Hopefully they come to their senses soon.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

JMP said:


> Stupid decision by the NYSAC. Hopefully they come to their senses soon.


I doubt it. It's too close to fight night. I'm assuming they would have to prematurely call the Medical Advisory Board to a meeting and who knows what else to overturn the 2013 ruling.

The only thing I can say is Martinez says his knees are 100% in the article.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Also, this is a bit irrelevant, but this caught my eye:










Any possible relation to judge Dave Moretti?


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## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

R00ster said:


> :rofl:rofl:rofl Oh my fucking god dude, what the hell is this?!


That is actually the poster, "DobyZhee", partaking in one of his favourite activities. :yep

It is actually available as a smilie on this forum's list of smilies.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles-frontpage/18712-first-glovegate-now-bracegate-sergio-knee-braces-a-no-go-in-nyc
> 
> Before anyone goes on about Miguel Cotto making demands, the source says it's a ruling by the New York State Athletic Commission. The source also says that Lou Dibella said, "Sergio is pissed."
> 
> It's kind of funny because Chavez Jr. wearing a knee brace during his fight with Martinez struck my mind.


Hope Martinez knocks his ass out.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

dyna said:


> Hope Martinez knocks his ass out.


Martinez has all the advantages except heart. This fight looks like a slugfest. If it is not, then Cotto will lose early. But if Cotto can go a few rounds, it will be a good fight and he will push Martinez. I wonder how the lack of a knee brace will affect Martinez strategy. Fighting mad cannot help Sergio. Cotto knows what he is doing.


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## r1p00pk (Jun 13, 2013)

MAG1965 said:


> Martinez has all the advantages except heart. This fight looks like a slugfest. If it is not, then Cotto will lose early. But if Cotto can go a few rounds, it will be a good fight and he will push Martinez. I wonder how the lack of a knee brace will affect Martinez strategy. Fighting mad cannot help Sergio. Cotto knows what he is doing.


hard to tell who has more heart considering the Chavez Jr nearly knocked Martinez out but managed to fight it out. I'd say both guys have a great ability to survive and really push through the pain.


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## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


>


Cottos got his game face on. Its gonna be sweet seeing Martinez get knocked the fuck out. Even sweeter than when i said Pac and Khan were gonna get knocked out. Jr. Did me proud by puttin Sergio on his ass. Now Cottos gonna finish the job. EASY WORK!


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## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

MAG1965 said:


> *Martinez has all the advantages except heart*. This fight looks like a slugfest. If it is not, then Cotto will lose early. But if Cotto can go a few rounds, it will be a good fight and he will push Martinez. I wonder how the lack of a knee brace will affect Martinez strategy. Fighting mad cannot help Sergio. Cotto knows what he is doing.


Martinez has great mettle, proved it against Paul Williams, Murray and Chavez big time. He also showed some poise and will against Pavlik turned the tables and upped his workrate when Pavlik was sneaking back into the fight and finished the final four rounds like the champ he was to become. Cotto is an insanely brave fighter, one of the biggest hearts of the last decade, so I wouldnt consider it a big insult to consider him the fighter with the bigger will. But Martinez definitely has enough to last it out against Cotto if the fight gets hard.


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## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Don't' see the reason why the New York State Athletic Commission are being dicks about the knee brace. They've already stated that they dont think its performance enhancing, but think its some kind of indication that a fighter shouldn't be licensed. It's just a precautionary measure for a fighter who's had serious knee problems, and doesn't want it hindering his performance's like before. Not wearing a knee brace doesn't mean that Sergio's knee is any better shape for fighting than if he was wearing one, it just makes the commission appear to look better, which if true makes them assholes imo. They dont give a shit about his health, just their own rep. Fuck em.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Michael said:


> Don't' see the reason why the New York State Athletic Commission are being dicks about the knee brace. They've already stated that they dont think its performance enhancing, but think its some kind of indication that a fighter shouldn't be licensed. It's just a precautionary measure for a fighter who's had serious knee problems, and doesn't want it hindering his performance's like before. Not wearing a knee brace doesn't mean that Sergio's knee is any better shape for fighting than if he was wearing one, it just makes the commission appear to look better, which if true makes them assholes imo. They dont give a shit about his health, just their own rep. Fuck em.


I can understand the angle; if you can't fight with a brace, you shouldn't be fighting at all. Problem is this is coming to light _now._ I think that's a fault on Sergio's Camp's part for not looking into it sooner.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I can understand the angle; if you can't fight with a brace, you shouldn't be fighting at all. Problem is this is coming to light _now._ I think that's a fault on Sergio's Camp's part for not looking into it sooner.


I agree. He assumed he could use it which he probably could have in Vegas. Chavez had one against him, and Michael Spinks did always use one in his fights if I remember correctly, but I am not sure that would matter to Martinez about Spinks so many years ago. Either way it could affect Martinez fight plan a little and his confidence when he is moving. Cotto might even try and aggravate that knee somehow and get Martinez out of his rhythm.


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## Vino Veritas (May 17, 2013)

Ridiculous ruling and should be challenged. If Martinez has passed the physical and a brace is deemed not performance enhancing, there's no reason why he shouldn't be permitted to wear it. If Martinez is licensed to fight then it should be up to him whether or not he chooses to wear a brace. 

Fuck I hope Martinez wrecks Cotto. Cotto could barely drop a one-legged Yuri Foreman, so even if Sergio's knee gives way I still think Cotto doesn't have enough to finish it.


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

Fucking dicks in the commisionthe boxers have to pass medical tests anyway so what's the fucking issue? 
Seriously if I was Sergio I'd threaten to pull out of the fight this is too big of a fight that they would risk it not happening :conf


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

MAG1965 said:


> Martinez has all the advantages except heart. This fight looks like a slugfest. If it is not, then Cotto will lose early. But if Cotto can go a few rounds, it will be a good fight and he will push Martinez. I wonder how the lack of a knee brace will affect Martinez strategy. Fighting mad cannot help Sergio. Cotto knows what he is doing.


sergio went into the murray fight injured and did so because he could not back out of a fight in argentina

"He was never fully recovered from the knee surgery," said DiBella, noting that the injury made it very hard for Martinez to plant his feet. "The knee was OK early in the training camp but it wasn't perfect. But with three weeks left in camp, it got much worse. He probably would have postponed the fight if was in a normal arena. He was damaged goods going in against Murray."

i dont remember sergio ever complaining about getting robbed against cintron when they took away his knockdown so he doesnt appear to be the kind of guy that makes excuses.

plenty of heart form where i stand


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

quincy k said:


> sergio went into the murray fight injured and did so because he could not back out of a fight in argentina
> 
> "He was never fully recovered from the knee surgery," said DiBella, noting that the injury made it very hard for Martinez to plant his feet. "The knee was OK early in the training camp but it wasn't perfect. But with three weeks left in camp, it got much worse. He probably would have postponed the fight if was in a normal arena. He was damaged goods going in against Murray."
> 
> ...


He has heart. Most fighters have heart, it takes that just to get in the ring and risk being knocked out, I just meant when you think about Cotto you think he is all heart, and sometimes that heart gets him in wars and in situations where he gets in a slugfest and takes a beating. But he comes right back and signs to fight another great guy right after. Most guys would not be in a big fight again after so many tough wars. I would have expected him not to recover after the first Margarito fight, and the Pacman fight.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

genaro g said:


> Cottos got his game face on. Its gonna be sweet seeing Martinez get knocked the fuck out. Even sweeter than when i said Pac and Khan were gonna get knocked out. Jr. Did me proud by puttin Sergio on his ass. Now Cottos gonna finish the job. EASY WORK!


I'm hoping for this too. He's looking really well in training camp.


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## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

"Cotto was toooooo small" will be the talk of the forum on Sun morning.
Martinez is gonna steam roll Miguel just like The Roach predicted except in reverse.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hatesrats said:


> "Cotto was toooooo small" will be the talk of the forum on Sun morning.
> Martinez is gonna steam roll Miguel just like The Roach predicted except in reverse.


Well I better not hear "too old"


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## Hook! (Jun 8, 2012)

I'm backing cotto UD.


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## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Well I better not hear "too old"


:lol: ... Maybe "Shot knee" :good


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## Royal-T-Bag (Jun 5, 2013)

Sergio is gonna toy with Cotto and knock him out, I will be absolutely shocked if he doesn't win by domination followed by KO or stoppage.


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

Man, I don't care about this fight at all. I want Cotto to win though.


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## Thawk888 (Jun 8, 2013)

Sergio by murder. Unless Cotto(e) got that shit in em'.


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## Yungboy (Jun 5, 2013)

Martinez is gonna beat the breaks off of Cotto!!! He's going batter him. We'll see Cottos face balloon up as usual. Don't know if Freddy'll throw in the towel or will Cotto be knocked unconscious.


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## Yungboy (Jun 5, 2013)

Cotto training is looking good so that might have him the fight longer than originally predicted. Martinez stops him in 9!


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## Windmiller (Jun 6, 2013)

Posting it here because Verdejo is on the undercard, look at all the fans the guy has already.

He also got Tito Trinidad's stamp of approval last week


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## VG_Addict (Mar 13, 2013)

Somewhat OT, but this summer is packed with great fights. You got Martinez-Cotto, Gamboa-Crawford, and Russel-Lomachenko in June, Golovkin-Geale, Lara-Canelo, and Fury-Chisora II in July, and Brook-Porter and Kovalev in August.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Cotto on the mitts:


__
http://instagr.am/p/oyrZ6nmfir/

Seems to be working that straight right.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Martinez should win, size advantage, he's fast, decent pop, but his messed up knees and Cotto working with Roach make this an intriguing fight.

Sent from my Nexus 5


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Anyone got that pic of Daddy Margarito carrying his 2 sons Cotto and Martinez? I remember seeing it on here or ESB back when the fight was announced. Googled it already, but couldn't find it.

Sent from my Nexus 5


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Cotto is looking much trimmer than I've seen him in a long time.


















































Interview with Cotto, Freddie, and clips from the media workout:

http://www.boxingscene.com/video-cotto-roach-talk-martinez-open-workout--78543


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Fighthub highlights from each one's media workout:


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## Broxi (Jul 24, 2012)

Martinez TKO9, I'd be surprised by any result other than a mid-late rounds stoppage.


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## sg-85 (Jun 21, 2012)

Cotto UD, both fighters to suffer KD's.


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## r1p00pk (Jun 13, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Cotto is looking much trimmer than I've seen him in a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


holy shit, haven't seen him like that since the PAC weigh in and even then he looks healthy and fine here


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

sg-85 said:


> Cotto UD, both fighters to suffer KD's.


I could totally see this.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Man, Cotto's training camp is looking so good it's crazy. He's looking so fit and fresh (no ****). A lot of writers have been talking about Cotto finding a so called "fountain of youth." Well, he's looking damn good right now. Healthy as all hell and very lean. I loved the segement of 24/7 where they talked about Cotto's lack of a proper coach and leader.


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## sg-85 (Jun 21, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I could totally see this.


I can't see Cotto not getting wobbled at some point throughout the fight. If anything i hope he's the one to suffer the flash KD. Question is how are Sergio's glass knees gonna hold up for 12 rounds.

So hyped for this fight, fly out to NY tomorrow! :ibutt :happy


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Interesting to hear Roach say Cotto is a harder puncher than Julio in that B-Scene interview.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

sg-85 said:


> I can't see Cotto not getting wobbled at some point throughout the fight. If anything i hope he's the one to suffer the flash KD. Question is how are Sergio's glass knees gonna hold up for 12 rounds.
> 
> So hyped for this fight, fly out to NY tomorrow! :ibutt :happy


You gonna meet up with the rest of us that are going? PM me your facebook if you want to meet up.


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## sg-85 (Jun 21, 2012)

I find that hard to believe. Roach likes to hype his own fighters to the max, but Cotto does look in outstanding condition for this one so who knows.


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## sg-85 (Jun 21, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> You gonna meet up with the rest of us that are going? PM me your facebook if you want to meet up.


Not on FB, will pm you though. :cheers


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## welsh_dragon83 (Aug 11, 2013)

r1p00pk said:


> holy shit, haven't seen him like that since the PAC weigh in and even then he looks healthy and fine here


Is that such a good thing because he ain't going to be as quick as Sergio, so should he have bulked up?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

welsh_dragon83 said:


> Is that such a good thing because he ain't going to be as quick as Sergio, so should he have bulked up?


He looks like he did against Rodriguez, strong but trim and light on his feet. Bulking up too much wouldn't have done him much good, it would have made him slower and he needs to be able to move. Controlling the range is key for him in this fight.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

sg-85 said:


> I can't see Cotto not getting wobbled at some point throughout the fight. If anything i hope he's the one to suffer the flash KD. Question is how are Sergio's glass knees gonna hold up for 12 rounds.
> 
> So hyped for this fight, fly out to NY tomorrow! :ibutt :happy


dont forget sergios left hand that he has now broken in his last two fights.


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## El-Terrible (Jun 5, 2013)

Sergio has looked a little soft around the middriff, he also relies a lot on movement with single punches and keeps his hands down -with his stance I can see Cotto attacks starting with right jab/hook and quick left hooks to the body to work well on Martinez. Cotto's left hook to the body is his best shot and I think can be key to the fight...Martinez' movemenet will be a problem in the 2nd half of the fight - if this is close after 8 rounds I can see Cotto winning it down the stretch - however Martinez is favourite for me, though I would be surprised if he gets the KO, he simply doesn't have the zing in his punches in his last few fights


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Interesting to hear Roach say Cotto is a harder puncher than Julio in that B-Scene interview.


roach also said that julio only trained five days for sergio.


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## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

"If Miguel decides to attack, it will be a short night for him,” Martinez said later “If he decides to box, it will be a much shorter night.” - Sergio Martinez


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Cotto looks strong. He's been in the gym working out and not giving a damn about making weight. The closer this gets, the more excited I am. Going to be a good show from two champions. 

I hope all of you who go send out some pictures for us.


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## Boogle McDougal (Jun 8, 2012)

They're really not gonna let Sergio wear a knee brace? That's fucked up, to say the least. They're actually endangering his safety, the opposite of what a commission is supposed to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Boggle said:


> They're really not gonna let Sergio wear a knee brace? That's fucked up, to say the least. They're actually endangering his safety, the opposite of what a commission is supposed to do.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's actually the Medical Advisory Board who made the ruling. I'm pretty sure, correct me if I'm wrong, that there would be a board of doctors making that ruling.


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## Boogle McDougal (Jun 8, 2012)

Mexi-Box said:


> It's actually the Medical Advisory Board who made the ruling. I'm pretty sure, correct me if I'm wrong, that there would be a board of doctors making that ruling.


I think you are correct. I read that they were determining shit like this on a case by case basis. It's asinine. He's almost 40 and coming off consecutive knee surgeries. Why deny him?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## r1p00pk (Jun 13, 2013)

quincy k said:


> roach also said that julio only trained five days for sergio.


I thought he meant he only trained 5 days with him. the rest were him at home with that other guy.


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## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

I've seen photos of Martinez, and he looks a little soft to me. Miguel looks excellent.

There's so many variables in this fight, it's going to be amazing to watch. Got to ride with Sergio though, spent the last two years trying to fight like him,


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> roach also said that julio only trained five days for sergio.


Yep. He said he sparred 5 days and did mitts for 4 days. He's said that ever since the loss.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Martinez is allowed to wear his brace now apparently.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

“I don’t know who brought up the issue about the sheath I am wearing on my knee. Whether it was the commission or Cotto’s team directly I am not sure,” Martinez rhetorically wonders. “The only one who will pay for it though is Miguel Cotto on June 7th.” - Sergio Martinez


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## R00ster (Jan 29, 2014)

Hatesrats said:


> "I don't know who brought up the issue about the sheath I am wearing on my knee. Whether it was the commission or Cotto's team directly I am not sure," Martinez rhetorically wonders. "The only one who will pay for it though is Miguel Cotto on June 7th." - Sergio Martinez


Nice.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

The uppercut is going to be a key for Martinez. If he can hit the body and come upstairs with an uppercut, that would really be a problem for Miguel


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

MAG1965 said:


> The uppercut is going to be a key for Martinez. If he can hit the body and come upstairs with an uppercut, that would really be a problem for Miguel


Can´t remember Martinez hitting someone often with uppercuts though...


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Vic said:


> Can´t remember Martinez hitting someone often with uppercuts though...


He used them against Murray and Chavez, but they weren't particularly impressive though.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> He used them against Murray and Chavez, but they weren't particularly impressive though.


Who do you back and who do you favor Bball?


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

Vic said:


> Can´t remember Martinez hitting someone often with uppercuts though...


he threw some in other fights, not the best, but in this fight I can see them effective as well as bodypunching. Cotto being smaller changes the dynamics of the fight. Martinez will be the puncher din this fight, and if he fights smart he can pick his shots if the rounds go by. I don't know what I think about Roach saying Chavez ruined Sergio. I suppose it might make Sergio question himself. He seems a little too seasoned for that.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Who do you back and who do you favor Bball?


Maravilla on both 

I watched Cotto/Margarito II and Martinez/Murray on OnDemand today and I originally had Martinez beating Murray, but on second watch not so sure about that :yep

I just have a hard time envisioning Cotto winning. I think he'll have a hellacious time trying to cross no man's land vs Martinez and I don't like his chances on the outside


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

If Martinez is in good form. Let's say 80-90% of what he was in the Chavez fight then I have trouble envisioning how Cotto can win. Let's be honest, Cotto got out-boxed by Trout. And Martinez is a better boxer than Trout, and even if you disagree with that you can not dispute that he is a bigger puncher who's more dangerous and more athletic. Even if you think Roach can improve upon the Cotto from the Trout fight, he still is facing a superior fighter who's simply more dangerous. Yes Martinez has vulnerabilities within his athletic style, but if his legs, reflexes, and body are in solid form then he should win. I have a hard time believing that the much smaller man can stop Martinez. Can he sustain a high-pace and strategy throughout against a southpaw boxer-puncher that goes to the body, and throws straight hard punches while changing angles? It's a dubious proposition. 

Let's us not forget that even with Cotto's seemingly evident advantages in terms of strength & conditioning and preparation. Stamina has always been something of a minor weakness of his. Martinez, regardless of his state of form is always in top condition. The guy is a former bicyclist. He throws a lot of punches and he has top-notch stamina. I don't doubt that Cotto can exploit Martinez for stretches. Despite his height and short reach I still think he can position himself to tag Martinez a fair amount. The question is how much of an impact can he make with his power at MW, and how frequently and consistently can he do it? Cotto training suggests he's positioning to step in and throw the right hand. Cotto has never had a really great right hand. After all my ramblings. The truth is I'm not sure what Martinez has left. DiBella said he looked the way he did prior to the Chavez fight which is a good sign. But from what I've seen from the training and 24/7. Cotto looks better, and I have no idea if Martinez's legs/reflexes are gone. 

If Martinez's legs are gone, Cotto can out-point him. I have to assume Martinez will be in relatively strong form and favor him pretty confidently against Cotto. It's good news that he had the badly injured knee days and shoulder days before the Murray fight because he looked awful in that fight. If he's healed up and 90% of what he once was he'll win.


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

MAG1965 said:


> Martinez has all the advantages except heart. .


Straight bullshit. How can you possible say this after the 12th round of the Chavez fight, or the Murray fight where he fought with torn knee and screwed up shoulder. If anything Martinez has proven more heart and Cotto has been my favorite fighter of the last decade.


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

Watching the media-workouts and seeing pictures/mitt-work. I have to say Cotto looks the best I've seen him in years! That's the only variable throwing me off with this fight.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

PetetheKing said:


> Watching the media-workouts and seeing pictures/mitt-work. I have to say Cotto looks the best I've seen him in years! That's the only variable throwing me off with this fight.


On paper Sergio has all the advantages. But Roach looks like he's gotten Cotto in very good shape, physically and mentally and tactically.

Check this out if you have the time:

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...d-its-tactical-significance-to-Cotto-Martinez


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Old ass thread before Martinez was old and injured.

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?p=10861135


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Great interview by Freddie. Talks a lot about emphasizing ring generalship.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

HBO just put these up:


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## MrJotatp4p (May 23, 2013)

No doubt about it people are easily fooled. If you think for one second Roach has made drastic changes for Cotto then you are sadly mistaken. Its all fun and games until Cotto gets hit and out boxed from the outside. He will have to work his way inside on Martinez and he will have to pay the price for that and I don't think Cotto is willing to do that over and over again for however long this fight last. He got out boxed by Trout and had Trout gone to that uppercut earlier in the fight he may have had it easier in the ring as well. 

Bogo with the size advantage the jab is going to play a huge role in this fight. Cotto doesn't have the size or quickness in my opinion to win that battle. I believe Roach is simply counting on Martinez getting caught while pulling out which could happen but even that won't be enough. He can say what he wants about the 12th round with Chavez but his guy got his ass whipped that night and Martinez was exchanging and bringing it to Chavez who was much bigger and powerful. Cotto gets dominated in this fight and I don't see it no other way. Martinez is Up for this and he has always giving us something to talk about when he is motivated. Can't wait and after the first round you will know shit is real.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Watching round 6 of Martinez-Chavez, and it's hard for Chavez to miss Martinez any time he throws, especially in the second half. Roach sounds like a dick when he says Martinez has no defense and is easy to hit when you let your hands go, but I'm starting to see holes in Martinez's inside game. Jabs, right hands, left uppercuts all tag Sergio up top, and Martinez is sometimes inaccurate on the counter attack. Martinez's movement was so good that this round was one of the clear exceptions but I see a bit of a blueprint in that round as ring generalship seems to be and needs to be the focus for Cotto in this fight. And take note, it obviously has nothing to do with his knees or injuries.


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## MrJotatp4p (May 23, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Watching round 6 of Martinez-Chavez, and it's hard for Chavez to miss Martinez any time he throws, especially in the second half. Roach sounds like a dick when he says Martinez has no defense and is easy to hit when you let your hands go, but I'm starting to see holes in Martinez's inside game. Jabs, right hands, left uppercuts all tag Sergio up top, and Martinez is sometimes inaccurate on the counter attack. Martinez's movement was so good that this round was one of the clear exceptions but I see a bit of a blueprint in that round as ring generalship seems to be and needs to be the focus for Cotto in this fight. And take note, it obviously has nothing to do with his knees or injuries.


All true but Cotto isn't Chavez and doesn't have the chin, height and reach that Chavez has. Cotto gets my respect for even stepping up to this class but its a step too far and Martinez has enough to blast this dude out of there. Cotto can't win this fight on the outside nor mid range. Martinez is too active and he can adjust better than Cotto who is still vulnerable to the uppercut. We will see the same Cotto we seen against Trout and Trout is just not on Martinez level. Of course Cotto is in shape and is always in shape for his fights. Nothing more and nothing less and at this stage of his career he has reached his ceiling and Roach can't fight for him.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Round 11 is also a template, obviously.



MrJotatp4p said:


> Bogo with the size advantage the jab is going to play a huge role in this fight. Cotto doesn't have the size or quickness in my opinion to win that battle. I believe Roach is simply counting on Martinez getting caught while pulling out which could happen but even that won't be enough. He can say what he wants about the 12th round with Chavez but his guy got his ass whipped that night and Martinez was exchanging and bringing it to Chavez who was much bigger and powerful. Cotto gets dominated in this fight and I don't see it no other way. Martinez is Up for this and he has always giving us something to talk about when he is motivated. Can't wait and after the first round you will know shit is real.


Martinez's jab is key but Cotto's timing has always served him well when closing the distance, picking his spots to step forward. Has there ever been an opponent he couldn't cut the ring off of? No, except maybe Manny, who's lateral movement is much smoother and defensively sound than Martinez's, but even he was backed up and pressed at times against a poorly prepared Cotto. Trout clinched him and bullied him back a bit to negate his pressure, but Cotto was employing the wrong strategy and stance and didn't seem fit for that fight. Roach doesn't need to make drastic changes, just the right ones. This fight is going to be competitive. I'm backing Cotto to win but even if he loses I have no doubt he will test Martinez. This has nothing to do with injuries. Roach himself in interviews said "I think the injuries are bullshit and we're going to get the best Martinez". People always underestimate Cotto because nothing stands out as athletically special but his skills and timing and rhythm do a lot for him. Martinez is a great middleweight champion and he has many advantages and is rightly favored, but Cotto is going to bring it in this fight. You can just tell.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

MrJotatp4p said:


> All true but Cotto isn't Chavez and doesn't have the chin, height and reach that Chavez has. Cotto gets my respect for even stepping up to this class but its a step too far and Martinez has enough to blast this dude out of there. Cotto can't win this fight on the outside nor mid range. Martinez is too active and he can adjust better than Cotto who is still vulnerable to the uppercut. We will see the same Cotto we seen against Trout and Trout is just not on Martinez level. Of course Cotto is in shape and is always in shape for his fights. Nothing more and nothing less and at this stage of his career he has reached his ceiling and Roach can't fight for him.


The reach and height are irrelevant because the inside is where Chavez Jr. did his work. He cut the ring off and threw tight inside punches that drew blood from Martinez later on in the fight.

This will not be the same Cotto against Trout. Actually read the breakdown in the thread you posted in, the stances look completely different from Trout to Rodriguez, and Cotto looks in much better shape, very trim and no lovehandles despite the fact he's going up to 160. Even if Martinez wins I'll give him credit for fighting a very well-prepared Cotto.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yep. He said he sparred 5 days and did mitts for 4 days. He's said that ever since the loss.


how many times was paq supposed to ko jmm?

i still remember when roach said that hopkins should retire when he walked back to the wrong corner against calzaghe.

vanes was also supposed to be the best 154 a couple years ago


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## MrJotatp4p (May 23, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> The reach and height are irrelevant because the inside is where Chavez Jr. did his work. He cut the ring off and threw tight inside punches that drew blood from Martinez later on in the fight.
> 
> This will not be the same Cotto against Trout. Actually read the breakdown in the thread you posted in, the stances look completely different from Trout to Rodriguez, and Cotto looks in much better shape, very trim and no lovehandles despite the fact he's going up to 160. Even if Martinez wins I'll give him credit for fighting a very well-prepared Cotto.


Its not irrelevant bc Martinez is better on the outside and with his hand speed, and reach it plays a huge factor.


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## bhopheadbut (Jun 16, 2013)

i'd remember sergio having success on the inside with uppercuts against jr, but thats irrelevant as jr was just a giant walking punching bag in that fight.sergio's fights have gone through the same rhythms since the bunema fight strong start,middle round slump and late rounds rally if cotto can start strong he stands a good chance of winning on the cards, but sergio is going to be so much physically stronger and i doubt cottos punch will have much effect on him i find it hard to envision a cotto win.If sergio is at 80% of his best he wins especially if he can still throw combos smoothly at different angles like he used to


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## chibelle (Jun 5, 2013)

Cotto will make it close in the early rounds. Eventually Martinez will get a stoppage in the mid rounds.

I will be surprised if Cotto last pass the 10th round. 8-2 scorecard when the stoppage happens.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Can someone articulate how cotto is going to win? I just don't see it. 

There is nothing cotto can do that Martinez hasn't seen.. They are only hoping for a diminished Martinez due to injury... Other then that he's getting laid out. Martinez beat the shit out of Murray in the championship rounds with a fractured hand cotto will be easy work. 

It would be funny for cotto who struggled against Welters and Jr MWs to now take out the best 160 pounder. I just don't see it. 

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> how many times was paq supposed to ko jmm?
> 
> i still remember when roach said that hopkins should retire when he walked back to the wrong corner against calzaghe.
> 
> vanes was also supposed to be the best 154 a couple years ago


Well if we're going to discredit trainers for every bad call they've ever made, none of them would be shit.



MrJotatp4p said:


> Its not irrelevant bc Martinez is better on the outside and with his hand speed, and reach it plays a huge factor.


I'm saying the difference in height and reach between Jr. and Cotto isn't that relevant because Cotto won't get much done on the outside besides step in with his jab over Martinez's, and even then he'd be closing the distance while doing so, and the inside is where Jr. had success, on the outside utilizing his height and reach.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Doc said:


> Can someone articulate how cotto is going to win? I just don't see it.
> 
> There is nothing cotto can do that Martinez hasn't seen.. They are only hoping for a diminished Martinez due to injury... Other then that he's getting laid out. Martinez beat the shit out of Murray in the championship rounds with a fractured hand cotto will be easy work.
> 
> ...


well I think Sergio will turn up in his best form for this fight. He seems very irritated with Cotto's attitude towards the fight and I think he will put together a similar performance to the Chavez fight.

If he is injured, then that is obviously Cotto's best chance. I've noticed that most of the time Martinez has been in trouble has been with the right hand. Cotto's right hand seems to be a bit improved and it looks like he's training to land it against Martinez, but I expect Cotto's jab to be his most effective weapon here. It will get him inside, and more importantly it will disrupt Martinez's rhythm.

Something else Cotto should really look to do is destroy Martinez's body. It will limit Martinez's movement and more importantly limit Martinez's defense. Bring that big left hook to the body back.

Martinez I think holds a stylistic advantage over Cotto, he should be able to stay on the outside and hit Cotto with those awkward combinations. Neither are great defensively so I expect there to be some moments for both guys. I'm picking Martinez by late stoppage or decision.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> well I think Sergio will turn up in his best form for this fight. He seems very irritated with Cotto's attitude towards the fight and I think he will put together a similar performance to the Chavez fight.
> 
> If he is injured, then that is obviously Cotto's best chance. I've noticed that most of the time Martinez has been in trouble has been with the right hand. Cotto's right hand seems to be a bit improved and it looks like he's training to land it against Martinez, but I expect Cotto's jab to be his most effective weapon here. It will get him inside, and more importantly it will disrupt Martinez's rhythm.
> 
> ...


Cotto has one of the worst rights.. He is dependent on his left hook something that a southpaw could care less about... The right is the pudding on the cake.. Cotto doesn't have it though.. He's always pity patted his right hands and his lefts are thrown with big intentions... Too bad he can't do the same with the right..

Let's hope for cottos sake he can get in those left hooks into Martinez like he did DROD but I doubt it...

Oh well should be exciting seeing a demolition job regardless.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

If Cotto's smart, he'll get into a clinch with Sergio and throw him to the floor. If he can tweak that knee, then his offense becomes a much more viable option.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Doc said:


> Cotto has one of the worst rights.. He is dependent on his left hook something that a southpaw could care less about... The right is the pudding on the cake.. Cotto doesn't have it though.. He's always pity patted his right hands and his lefts are thrown with big intentions... Too bad he can't do the same with the right..
> 
> Let's hope for cottos sake he can get in those left hooks into Martinez like he did DROD but I doubt it...
> 
> ...


Yeah, but from what I've seen in training, he will be looking to use it against Sergio which is a good idea. Maybe Roach has sharpened his right a bit. I think cotto will definitely get his left hook in at some point


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> If Cotto's smart, he'll get into a clinch with Sergio and throw him to the floor. If he can tweak that knee, then his offense becomes a much more viable option.


cotto is too classy for that

hell lean and grapple but a flagrant foul? no.

miguel has spent a career establishing his good name and i cant see him jeopardizing it for one fight


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Watching round 6 of Martinez-Chavez, and it's hard for Chavez to miss Martinez any time he throws, especially in the second half. Roach sounds like a dick when he says Martinez has no defense and is easy to hit when you let your hands go, but I'm starting to see holes in Martinez's inside game. Jabs, right hands, left uppercuts all tag Sergio up top, and Martinez is sometimes inaccurate on the counter attack. Martinez's movement was so good that this round was one of the clear exceptions but I see a bit of a blueprint in that round as ring generalship seems to be and needs to be the focus for Cotto in this fight. And take note, it obviously has nothing to do with his knees or injuries.


Martinez has been hittable for a long time. His defense is purely reflex and legs-based. He takes chances as an aggressive counter-puncher. Sort of Tony Canzeroni esque you could say. He's not as slick as he leads people to believe. He fights with a lot of swagger, but he's not a defensive-wizard by any stretch. I've thought it and said it quite a bit, though, he looked his best against Chavez. Cotto's dimensions are still concerning. He's a small, short-armed fighter. Chavez Jr is a 6 foot SMW.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

PetetheKing said:


> Martinez has been hittable for a long time. His defense is purely reflex and legs-based. He takes chances as an aggressive counter-puncher. Sort of Tony Canzeroni esque you could say. He's not as slick as he leads people to believe. He fights with a lot of swagger, but he's not a defensive-wizard by any stretch. I've thought it and said it quite a bit, though, he looked his best against Chavez. Cotto's dimensions are still concerning. He's a small, short-armed fighter. Chavez Jr is a 6 foot SMW.


Yep. As I said the outside won't see much success for Cotto, he has to take the fight where his small size is an advantage, and where Martinez is naked and can't glide away from the punches. A few pages back I posted the 5 fights from the last 8 Martinez has suffered knockdowns, almost all of them are while he's puling away laterally with no hands up.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Vintage Cotto against a mobile southpaw with a height and reach advantage (closer to his own size of course). Very good punch selection when he has Quintana on the ropes. Love the way he was stepping into the right hand lead, either in the center or against the ropes when Quintana outstretched his right jab. Good anticipation of counter-punches as well. Cotto caught a good few punches on the way in but he would always throw a combination to punish Quintana for it. His southpaw straight lefts were also on point like they were when he finished Judah.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> Cotto has one of the worst rights.. He is dependent on his left hook something that a southpaw could care less about... The right is the pudding on the cake.. Cotto doesn't have it though.. He's always pity patted his right hands and his lefts are thrown with big intentions... Too bad he can't do the same with the right..
> 
> Let's hope for cottos sake he can get in those left hooks into Martinez like he did DROD but I doubt it...
> 
> ...


Cotto's right rocked Rodriguez who is known for his chin at 154. It has improved since he had his shoulder operated, leading up to that it was missing.

He's always pity patted his right hands? No. Just no.


























It will never be his best punch but to assume it won't play a role in this fight is just wrong, especially looking at his training camp and his last fight and vintage Cotto's use of the right hand.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Good article on Cotto's bag of tricks:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2014/6/5...ing-technique-analysis-jab-left-hook-southpaw

This moment stood out to me more than any other in that fight, switching stances seamlessly.


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## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

“Regardless of what Freddie Roach says, Cotto will get beat up on Saturday night. Freddie Roach is a joker and a big talker. He was saying how a cyclist cannot beat a world champion, and look at what happened with Chavez,” - Sergio Martinez,


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

if martinez is at 100%, all cotto can do is pray he gets knocked out quickly.


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## Vino Veritas (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Good article on Cotto's bag of tricks:
> 
> http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2014/6/5...ing-technique-analysis-jab-left-hook-southpaw
> 
> This moment stood out to me more than any other in that fight, switching stances seamlessly.


Marg was never quick on his feet so I don't think the supposed bag of tricks are as relevant against fighters who aren't there to be hit.

The switching of stances isn't impressive either, as he doesn't stick with the switch for an extended period of time. He only does it in that gif with the sole intent of getting out of harm's way. Compare that with Marvin who'd switch and stay in the pocket and bang away. That was a true skill.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Vino Veritas said:


> Marg was never quick on his feet so I don't think the supposed bag of tricks are as relevant against fighters who aren't there to be hit.
> 
> The switching of stances isn't impressive either, as he doesn't stick with the switch for an extended period of time. He only does it in that gif with the sole intent of getting out of harm's way. Compare that with Marvin who'd switch and stay in the pocket and bang away. That was a true skill.


That kind of ability to change the angle while punching in different stances in uncommon. And Cotto is plenty experienced in banging away in the southpaw stance.


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## Vino Veritas (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> That kind of ability to change the angle while punching in different stances in uncommon. And Cotto is plenty experienced in banging away in the southpaw stance.


I don't know, all he did in that gif was throw a left from a southpaw stance and then revert back to an orthodox right. It's not hard but is uncommon because you can get caught off balance and dropped by a shot that ordinarily wouldn't faze you, hence why most fighters don't do it.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> if martinez is at 100%, all cotto can do is pray he gets knocked out quickly.


well hes not 100 percent, never will be and thats why this fight has been made

the question is if a 70 percent 39-year-old sergio is enough to beat small cotto who would lose to all five of the top 154s


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## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

Say Cotto survives until the final bell...
Does anyone think Martinez could get a fair shake in NYC if the fight is close???


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Vino Veritas said:


> I don't know, all he did in that gif was throw a left from a southpaw stance and then revert back to an orthodox right. It's not hard but is uncommon because you can get caught off balance and dropped by a shot that ordinarily wouldn't faze you, hence why most fighters don't do it.


It was uncommon, well-timed, and sexy. Period. No need to dismiss and unfairly bring up Hagler and shit.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> It was uncommon, well-timed, and sexy. Period. No need to dismiss and unfairly bring up Hagler and shit.


Sexy? Wtf.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

24/7 episode 2 finally got posted by HBO:


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

This Gavin Macmillan clown needs a shot in the face. Roach the greatest trainer in the history of the sport? atsch


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Old ass thread before Martinez was old and injured.
> 
> http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?p=10861135


You seemed to advocate a Diaz-esque approach back then.

Do you still think Martinez is just as skilled or more skilled than Cotto? I'd say that opinion seems to have changed, too.

I don't think Martinez is more skilled, certainly more athletically-inclined. He's obviously has certain attribute-advantages too, and I'd say he's probably a better counter-puncher.

If Cotto is just as skilled as Martinez he's done for it. Roach's entire belief-system and strategy is predicated on Martinez's lack of skills and defensive vulnerabilities. He keeps saying he's got the guy that's boxed his whole life.


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## Vino Veritas (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> It was uncommon, well-timed, and sexy. Period. No need to dismiss and unfairly bring up Hagler and shit.


I guess I'm just not as easily impressed as you are.

What's wrong with bringing Hagler up?


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

In the 24/7, Martinez said Cotto is a short dude with a nice face. :staredog


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

"Cotto and Martinez are both my children, take away the two undefeated" - Margerito


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

i really hope martinez wins this. he deserves it. he's an old school fighter. he came up the hard way.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> "Cotto and Martinez are both my children, take away the two undefeated" - Margerito


Yep, El papa DE cotto / Martinez

Margaritos children preparing for a good sibling fight... Who will win. Stay tuned

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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

If Martinez has his skills still, then Cotto is in trouble probably, but I think a good tactic by Cotto would be to blitz Martinez and see if he can stop him early. He should see how cold Martinez is during ring announcements.


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

The wizard seems to be backing Martinez. Counter left-hand and straighter punchers winning out is basically his reasoning. "geometry, timing, and Impact."
Uses footage of the Pac fight to make his point interestingly enough. A fight where his current trainer was on the other side discussing his bad habits and helping his fighter exploit them.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

PetetheKing said:


> You seemed to advocate a Diaz-esque approach back then.
> 
> Do you still think Martinez is just as skilled or more skilled than Cotto? I'd say that opinion seems to have changed, too.
> 
> ...


Martinez is not more skilled. Cotto is more skilled on the inside which is where the fight will be decided, unless Cotto never gets a chance to get there.


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## Peter Barlow (Jun 4, 2013)

Could this be the first time two homosexuals fight each other on a Boxing PPV? It seems to be a widely held view about both. I forgot though Mayweather - Cotto, both are at least bisexuals. Imagine it would ruffle a few feathers with certain people, no pun intended.
@Sweethome_Bama is the resident expert on closet homosexuals what your thoughts Bama?


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## Peter Barlow (Jun 4, 2013)

Hope Sexy Sergio does the business on him, hes one of my favourite fighters but he might be past his best. Credit to Cotto to for having the balls to jump up in weight, very old school he deserves the big payday.


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## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Teddy Atlas thinks Cotto will win...


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## Peter Barlow (Jun 4, 2013)

Whats Tony saying here any Spanish speakers?


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## sasquatch (Jun 4, 2013)

i dont think it will be close, martinez will keep punching with striaghts and cotto wont be able to set himself up adn get his in. martinez points winning nearly every round.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Mugsy said:


> Whats Tony saying here any Spanish speakers?


He says "What I can tell you is that they're both my sons, I took away each one's 0...nah it's a good fight, Cotto like Martinez is a good fighter. But I think, from my point of view, that it's too much weight for Cotto, but I think it's a good fight. (On Martinez) I think it's age and all that, he doesn't run, he uses a bicycle for conditioning (mumbles something about an advantage or disadvantage and being big or great for boxing? seems margo is wearing braces or something), I only pick him because of the weight. (On who gave him more trouble technically) Look, Cotto took a lot of my punches. Maravilla I stopped in 7 rounds but the truth is...I think it's just a good fight. Each one does their thing well. Cotto's a good fighter, Maravilla does move more but Cotto has to chase him down to grab the victory. (Then he talks about his promotional stuff)"


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## Peter Barlow (Jun 4, 2013)

Cheers Bogo. Is he promoting ? I heard hes involved with Miguel Vasquez.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> Teddy Atlas thinks Cotto will win...


:fire

This better be that twice a day shit..


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Mugsy said:


> Whats Tony saying here any Spanish speakers?


Margarito is a motherfucking G. What's funny is that I just bought a new pair of glasses. I bought them at Wal-Mart for like $60. They're called Fatheadz and they look exactly like the ones Margarito is wearing in this interview; the only difference is that mine are less black around the lenses :lol:.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Mugsy said:


> Cheers Bogo. Is he promoting ? I heard hes involved with Miguel Vasquez.


It's hard to understand him, but from what I heard him say, he had a kid so he stopped for a while. He's going to come back and make some moves soon, though.

I remember they had a fighter from his promotional stable, if I remember correctly, featured on Solo Boxeo. It was his nephew or cousin, I forgot which, and he won a WBC youth title or something like that. It was a very, very long time ago, though. I'm not sure if it was his promotion or he was just training/aiding him, though.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> A thread I made on it 3 years ago, arguing that Cotto's best chance would be to emulate Barrera's gameplan against Hamed.
> 
> http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?p=10861135


Theres a lot of differences, size and all, but also the speed gap is a lot bigger with cotto-martinez. watch barrera-hamed, and while hamed is faster, its only slightly, prime barrera was fast and he didnt have any problems catching hamed whenever he wanted to. I think barrera kept a lot tighter defense than cotto will be able to manage. I can see cotto getting caught with a bomb and getting stopped, where as barrera never did....... but yeah his best chance is to box martinez and catch him off balance, better chance than trying to brawl with him for sure


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

This is Bogo, signing off.

WAR COTTO :ibutt


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## D-U-D-E (Jul 31, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


>


:jjj

War Sergio :ibutt

The Sexy one will shine tonight.


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## Brickfists (Oct 17, 2012)

I cannot wait for this fucking fight.

I'm picking Cotto.


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## RollinShots (Jun 6, 2013)

hope martinez smashes him cotto iss too much a crybaby for my tastes


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## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

Martinez wide Ud, think Cotto will have enough to last the duration.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

Cotto will make a valiant effort, but Martinez is too big and fast for him....and the fight will end with Cotto being rescued by the ref some where between rounds 8 and 10...and after taking massive punishment after a competitive first few rounds.


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## Rooster (Jul 14, 2013)

Roughly 6 hours until The Marvelous One makes a lot of Cotto fans sad. Late rounds KO, injuries or not.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Rooster said:


> Roughly 6 hours until The Marvelous One makes a lot of Cotto fans sad. Late rounds KO, injuries or not.


Sad? More like placed on suicide watch. Aha...

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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

martinez via tko inside 7.


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## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

Props to Cotto you proved a bunch of MoFo's wrong including myself.
(Sergio was beat pillar to post...)


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hatesrats said:


> Props to Cotto you proved a bunch of MoFo's wrong including myself.
> (Sergio was beat pillar to post...)


Thanks for the props man. You've always been one to give credit where it's due. And I can say with honesty that I would have given Martinez credit as well because I know Roach was so well-prepared.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## BoxingGenius27 (Jun 8, 2013)

Bump for those doubting the new Roach and Cotto like they've done before

Cotto via left hook KO 6


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