# Cotto-Canelo Training Clips & Build-Up (24/7 Episode 2 Added!)



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

This is the first one I've come across.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

I've yet to see anything from either guy. When is the damn 24/7 or whatever coming out? I can't wait! HBO does a fantastic job at hyping up fights. I've always loved 24/7. It's just so much better than Showtime's All Access. 

I also love watching Cotto train.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> I've yet to see anything from either guy. When is the damn 24/7 or whatever coming out? I can't wait! HBO does a fantastic job at hyping up fights. I've always loved 24/7. It's just so much better than Showtime's All Access.
> 
> I also love watching Cotto train.


Yeah I miss a good old fashioned 24/7. Cotto just barely started training, he did some work with Freddie then took a short vacation to Mexico. Canelo started a week ago or something.

Those body shots look nasty but I remember seeing mitt drills of his before and saying with @bballchump11 how none of his punching drills are on the move. Everything is stand still and load up.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> I've yet to see anything from either guy. When is the damn 24/7 or whatever coming out? I can't wait! HBO does a fantastic job at hyping up fights. I've always loved 24/7. It's just so much better than Showtime's All Access.
> 
> I also love watching Cotto train.


We are 10 weeks out from the fight. I'm stoked about this, too, but it will be another 5-6 weeks until a 24/7 comes on IF they do a full 4 episodes (like I think this fight deserves).


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah I miss a good old fashioned 24/7. Cotto just barely started training, he did some work with Freddie then took a short vacation to Mexico. Canelo started a week ago or something.
> 
> Those body shots look nasty but I remember seeing mitt drills of his before and saying with @*bballchump11* how none of his punching drills are on the move. Everything is stand still and load up.


I wonder why they don't have him do drills on the move in training.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> I wonder why they don't have him do drills on the move in training.


It really stunts his growth imo. This is a simple intervention to help him but this is why Canelo needs a new trainer imho


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> It really stunts his growth imo. This is a simple intervention to help him but this is why Canelo needs a new trainer imho


Agreed on both counts. His biggest weakness is his foot movement, or lack thereof. Hitting mitts is an ideal time to work on some movement while punching.

Either they don't know what they are doing (which I doubt) or Canelo is far too much in control of his camp (which I think is the case). Either way, change is needed.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah I miss a good old fashioned 24/7. Cotto just barely started training, he did some work with Freddie then took a short vacation to Mexico. Canelo started a week ago or something.
> 
> Those body shots look nasty but I remember seeing mitt drills of his before and saying with @bballchump11 how none of his punching drills are on the move. Everything is stand still and load up.


yeah I like watching Canelo train more than almost anybody because of how explosive he is. He's just so damn flawed though in his training where you can see the negatives in the ring (stamina, taking breaks, cement feet)


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## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah I miss a good old fashioned 24/7. Cotto just barely started training, he did some work with Freddie then took a short vacation to Mexico. Canelo started a week ago or something.
> 
> Those body shots look nasty but I remember seeing mitt drills of his before and saying with @*bballchump11* how none of his punching drills are on the move. Everything is stand still and load up.


Will they have a "Face-Off epsiode?


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> Will they have a "Face-Off epsiode?


I hope not. They're both too respectful.

The best ones did include Cotto, though, Martinez/Cotto and Margarito/Cotto.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> Will they have a "Face-Off epsiode?


It doesn't seem like it since Max interviewed both on ESPN. As Mexibox said, both are too respectful to make much drama out of it. Maybe he could throw in some shit about Cotto's brother. Even that probably wouldn't work.


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## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

Only a cunt would bring up Cotto's brother, that's all irrelevant.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

ElKiller said:


> Only a cunt would bring up Cotto's brother, that's all irrelevant.


It was part of the storyline for the Canelo-Trout lead up, Canelo said he wanted revenge for his brother's loss. But as I said, that wouldn't make any worthwhile face off content anyway.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

Canelo ALWAYS does standing still padwork he never moves his feet and that despite his feet being his big issue his entire career


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## SimplyTuck (Jun 4, 2013)

Canelo is going to destroy Cotto.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

^ Man, I hope Canelo yells like that during the fight! It'll probably freak Cotto out.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


>


Interesting and not surprising Canelo is looking for a quick-fire counter after blocking the left hook. I wonder if Cotto will try to land it at a side angle at all.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Anyone else think Canelo looks absolutely gigantic in that video?


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


>


Very nice of Roach about Frankie Gomez. When I first saw that name in the title, I was thinking Alfonso Gomez. I was thinking to myself why the fuck are they asking Roach about him. Then I was like, oh, Frankie Gomez. Roach is training him! atsch

Not sure what went on there. :lol:


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Cotto is getting annihilated. I honestly can't fucking wait. Dude is prima donna and has been beating up on oldies/hyped guys.

Canelo is going to ice this motherfucker and I can't. fucking. wait.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> Anyone else think Canelo looks absolutely gigantic in that video?


I dunno about gigantic, but he's REALLY getting some snap on the left! Canelo has always been explosive, but this looks like he's improved how much twist he's getting from his right arm. See what he's doing? He's not just blocking with his right, he's throwing his right elbow forward. This then allows his to really snap that right back with full motion, adding to the speed & power of his left counter.

Props to Canelo's trainer. I think Cotto is definitely in trouble.

If I were Cotto, and saw this video (I'm sure he has) I'd start practicing this: Feint a left hook, then drop back, wait for Canelo's left, then do a pull counter over the top.
I think Cotto has the athleticism to do this. However, if he doesn't pull back far enough, he could end up needing a liver transplant.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Cotto is getting annihilated. I honestly can't fucking wait. Dude is prima donna and has been beating up on oldies/hyped guys.
> 
> Canelo is going to ice this motherfucker and I can't. fucking. wait.


You're going to look pretty bad if this is remotely competitive.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

^ It appears that Cotto is training for a Mambo competition. :smile 

Good thing, too, as his pro boxing days may be numbered.




arty


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Found this one without the salsa music so you can hear the mittwork and whatnot.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> You're going to look pretty bad if this is remotely competitive.


Can't be worse than how you looked after your prediction of Angulo beating Canelo

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...how-he-s-going-to-win&highlight=angulo+canelo


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Can't be worse than how you looked after your prediction of Angulo beating Canelo
> 
> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...how-he-s-going-to-win&highlight=angulo+canelo


Yes it can. I said I felt like I was going to be wrong but couldn't picture it. You're doing this:



bjl12 said:


> Canelo is going to ice that mother fucker. BANK ON IT





bjl12 said:


> Canelo is going to fuck Cotto up and I couldn't be happier





bjl12 said:


> Canelo is gonna slaughter this boy. Can't fuckin wait





bjl12 said:


> Canelo is going to ice this fool with few or many punches. Guaranteed





bjl12 said:


> Can't wait till November. Dat boy in your avi gettin SMOKED out mofo





bjl12 said:


> Cotto is getting annihilated. I honestly can't fucking wait. Dude is prima donna and has been beating up on oldies/hyped guys.
> 
> Canelo is going to ice this motherfucker and I can't. fucking. wait.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yes it can. I said I felt like I was going to be wrong but couldn't picture it. You're doing this:


And I am gonna look fucking GOOD when Canelo does exactly what I've been saying.

I outright said Canelo would ice Angulo in bad fashion - which he did. Canelo was a favorite in that fight - but not big time. This is largely considered a 50/50 fight and I'm taking a similar prediction although it will happen differently. Cotto is going to try and box and he will have his moments because he can be tricky and Canelo might even get taken into deep territory briefly, but you will see Cotto's legs give way. Whether it's just once, briefly, or more than once, or longer than 10 seconds I do not know. Canelo is going to hurt Cotto.

Cotto hasn't fought someone as explosive as Canelo since...I can't even remember when. Canelo is arguably the hungriest fighter today and he knows - with Floyd retired now - there is nobody keeping himself from becoming cash cow but Cotto atm. Even better is that Canelo is, all favoritism aside, the people's champ. Canelo fights the guys the people want especially the "hard" fights.

Canelo is explosive, he's fast, his boxing is underrated, and he's going to punish Cotto beginning by the third or fourth round. Cotto has weak defense and he is too weathered to withstand what's coming. Bad fight for Cotto and this cherry pick will not go down well because Roach is comparing Cotto with Trout/Floyd/Lara...Cotto fights nothing like any of those guys. Cotto will be smaller, as fast or slower, his punching is less precise than all of the aforementioned guys, his conditioning is not as good as Lara/Floyd/Trout, and his defense is without a doubt worse than all of theirs. Canelo, on the other hand, has always been effective against fighters who don't excel defensively.

The only thing Cotto might be able to succeed on is. . . . . . counter-punching. Cotto has to have an excellent counter-punching night in order to win. And I mean absolutely excellent. But Cotto isn't a natural counter-puncher. He's going to look to land that left hook, no doubt, but he won't have the ease that he had against no-legged Sergio (literally Sergio didn't even spar for his fight w/ Canelo), Delvin who?, or Daniel Geale.

If I turn out to be wrong I will eat all of my words, but I really see Canelo punshing Cotto for all the aforementioned reasons. Cotto has to be perfect counter-punching because his jab (which is decent) will not be enough as that will be countered by Canelo quickly


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## scorpion (Jun 24, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


>


That's a terrible pace, no wonder he has shit stamina i've seen turtles run faster than that.
Also when you take into account how explosive he is, this kind of jogging does NOTHING for his endurance.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

scorpion said:


> That's a terrible pace, no wonder he has shit stamina i've seen turtles run faster than that.
> Also when you take into account how explosive he is, this kind of jogging does NOTHING for his endurance.


The fight is 2 months away and he's keeping in good shape, when your this far out it doesn't have to be sprinting. This one could just be about endurance not sprinting for explosiveness..

It's funny you have these comment for like 15 seconds of footage in a 24 hour day where hard camp hasn't even begun, canelo has been slowly working out for the past 2 months keeping in shape, and cotto just started..

You look like a dumbass with that much hate, a turtle? really, come on.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> And I am gonna look fucking GOOD when Canelo does exactly what I've been saying.
> 
> I outright said Canelo would ice Angulo in bad fashion - which he did. Canelo was a favorite in that fight - but not big time. This is largely considered a 50/50 fight and I'm taking a similar prediction although it will happen differently. Cotto is going to try and box and he will have his moments because he can be tricky and Canelo might even get taken into deep territory briefly, but you will see Cotto's legs give way. Whether it's just once, briefly, or more than once, or longer than 10 seconds I do not know. Canelo is going to hurt Cotto.
> 
> ...


I'll give Canelo full credit if he wins, I just find your insistence overly emotional. And as I said, if it's even remotely competitive Canelo has failed the bar you set up. Cotto doesn't have to be Lara or Floyd to get to Canelo and control the ring.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

People focusing too much on Canelo being static, there's going to be exchanges at mid range so it makes sense to work the pads at that distance with the feet set.

Cotto has a step in jab and has to move in range to land his shots. Canelo is quick enough to counter from a set position. Cotto ain't no Lara or Floyd who's going to take two steps back after landing a jab. He takes a step forward, which means he's moving straight into range.

If Cotto wants to land anything serious in this fight he has to commit close range and pivot into his shots. That's Canelos game and he doesn't need to be running around the ring to do it. Cotto will come to him. 

That short counter left to the body he is drilling will probably be the shot to do it, Cotto can't take body shots like that.

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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

TFG said:


> People focusing too much on Canelo being static, there's going to be exchanges at mid range so it makes sense to work the pads at that distance with the feet set.
> 
> Cotto has a step in jab and has to move in range to land his shots. Canelo is quick enough to counter from a set position. Cotto ain't no Lara or Floyd who's going to take two steps back after landing a jab. He takes a step forward, which means he's moving straight into range.
> 
> ...


Yes Canelo needs to step in and attack and for that he needs to work his feet footwork doesn't mean dancing around the ring, canelo needs to cut off the ring and picot with Cotto who does move laterally and will look to control the distance and get angles on Canelo.
YOu never saw Tyson work the pads statically on one plac ehe always moved his feet.

Cotto will come to Canelo but not in a "I stand infront of you" way but he will move so that Canelo has to move and THEn step in but on an angle kinda like he did vs Geale and Canelo needs footwork for that thre's a reason Angulo had less trouble getting close to lara than Canelo had.

I still think canelo will win but that he doesn#t seem to work on that obvious issue of his is bad


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> Yes Canelo needs to step in and attack and for that he needs to work his feet footwork doesn't mean dancing around the ring, canelo needs to cut off the ring and picot with Cotto who does move laterally and will look to control the distance and get angles on Canelo.
> YOu never saw Tyson work the pads statically on one plac ehe always moved his feet.
> 
> Cotto will come to Canelo but not in a "I stand infront of you" way but he will move so that Canelo has to move and THEn step in but on an angle kinda like he did vs Geale and Canelo needs footwork for that thre's a reason Angulo had less trouble getting close to lara than Canelo had.
> ...


It's more of an issue against guys like Lara and Floyd. His footwork stopped him being dominant against Lara and meant he couldn't really get close to Mayweather.

It's not an issue in this fight, his lack of movement is greatly exaggerated. You don't beat Lara with cement feet, it's just not possible. He didn't magically appear in front of him at close range, he worked his position so he could land his body shots. He hasn't got great footwork and it needs working on but he does just fine with it.

He's more than capable of chasing down Cotto if he needed to, but Cotto will come to him and give him the opportunities to land hard counters. Cotto isn't elusive, there's going to be points when Canelo steps in and hurts him. The most damage will be done when Canelo times Cotto when he comes in. Slip and rip.

Both Lara and Trout have better defense that Cotto and are much harder to pin down.

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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

TFG said:


> It's more of an issue against guys like Lara and Floyd. His footwork stopped him being dominant against Lara and meant he couldn't really get close to Mayweather.
> 
> It's not an issue in this fight, his lack of movement is greatly exaggerated. You don't beat Lara with cement feet, it's just not possible. He didn't magically appear in front of him at close range, he worked his position so he could land his body shots. He hasn't got great footwork and it needs working on but he does just fine with it.
> 
> ...


He worked on his footwork more for the Lara fight but apparently judging from this clipn only for that one fight.

He doesn't catch you often coming in because of his lack of movement and standing till he often also doesnt get the distance he needs to punch. Only one fight ago that was apparent vs Kirkland yes in the end he caught Kirkland but Kirkland leaned forward so badly and came straight in and that was Wolfe-less Kirkland who had been in a ton of fights and was coming off a layoff not Cotto and Canelo still needed quite a few rounds to land that one big shot and he couldn't even catch kirkland coming in as often as he should have.

Trout does not have better defence than Cotto at least not beside his legs Cotto blocks better and moves his head better than trout and has probably even better distance management


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> He worked on his footwork more for the Lara fight but apparently judging from this clipn only for that one fight.
> 
> He doesn't catch you often coming in because of his lack of movement and standing till he often also doesnt get the distance he needs to punch. Only one fight ago that was apparent vs Kirkland yes in the end he caught Kirkland but Kirkland leaned forward so badly and came straight in and that was Wolfe-less Kirkland who had been in a ton of fights and was coming off a layoff not Cotto and Canelo still needed quite a few rounds to land that one big shot and he couldn't even catch kirkland coming in as often as he should have


I don't really know what you're talking about, he hit both Angulo and Kirkland at will, with the counter shots doing the most damage.

His counter combinations against Kirkland were terrifying. He also showed fantastic feints, especially in the Angulo fight.

The right hook feint to set up the left uppercut is a nightmare for Cotto, given that they are the two best punches to hit him with.

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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

TFG said:


> I don't really know what you're talking about, he hit both Angulo and Kirkland at will, with the counter shots doing the most damage.
> 
> His counter combinations against Kirkland were terrifying. He also showed fantastic feints, especially in the Angulo fight.
> 
> ...


Angulo stood right infront of him yo yeah he could hit him at will. But Kirkland got up close Canelo isn't a great inside fighter either he has one place he wants to to be, right infront of him at midrange if you are too close he doesn#t like it, if you move laterally he doesnt like it and since he doesn't move his feet he only has his punches to stop you from moving where you want but that's not enough against high level fighters in the end he most of the time still egts the job done because he's great if you are where he wants you to be even if it's only for a few seconds but as long as you arent at that exact spot he looks several levels below him at his best

Canel wa sone of the worst matchups possible for Kirkland who wasn't even the ebst kirkland we have seen and he still gave Canelo a pretty tough fight with Kirkland's chin, his style, his wear and tear and his defence and slow start he should have gotten destroyed much easier


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## Mushin (Dec 12, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> Angulo stood right infront of him yo yeah he could hit him at will. But Kirkland got up close Canelo isn't a great inside fighter either he has one place he wants to to be, right infront of him at midrange if you are too close he doesn#t like it, if you move laterally he doesnt like it and since he doesn't move his feet he only has his punches to stop you from moving where you want but that's not enough against high level fighters in the end he most of the time still egts the job done because he's great if you are where he wants you to be even if it's only for a few seconds but as long as you arent at that exact spot he looks several levels below him at his best
> 
> Canel wa sone of the worst matchups possible for Kirkland who wasn't even the ebst kirkland we have seen and he still gave Canelo a pretty tough fight with Kirkland's chin, his style, his wear and tear and his defence and slow start he should have gotten destroyed much easier


Kirkland gave Canelo a tough fight? He got hurt from the get go, his only "good" moments came when he had Canelo on the ropes and partially landed some pitty pat shots, meanwhile Canelo was just letting him blow his load and waiting to land a hard counter which he did, spectacularly.

I do agree with you on Canelo's footwork, that's why I think Pedro Diaz would be a perfect trainer for him.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## RDJ (Jun 27, 2012)

Canelo's bag work is lazy as shit. He looks almost bored doing it.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

RDJ said:


> Canelo's bag work is lazy as shit. He looks almost bored doing it.


always the same thing I think when I watch him


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> always the same thing I think when I watch him


He trains like mayweather nice and chill.. focuses on form instead of intensity... leave the intensity for the ring.

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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> He trains like mayweather nice and chill.. focuses on form instead of intensity... leave the intensity for the ring.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


no, Mayweather is focused and engaged throughout the whole 20-40 minutes he's hitting the pads, body shield or bag. That's 20-40 minutes straight also. He doesn't take any breaks. When he's doing his mitt routine, he's constantly in his boxing stance ready to defend, punch and counter. He has to be mentally engaged throughout the whole thing and it also improves his conditioning. If Canelo is just focusing strictly on power right now, then fine. But this is the only way I've ever seen him train. By the evidence I see in the ring, I'm inclined to believe that this is how he trains the majority of the time.

Canelo just throws a few punches, backs away and hops up and down with his hands low. It's lazy and a better trainer would have him taking less breaks. That would translate inside the ring too conditioning wise. Nacho Bernstein would force him to do exactly that.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Not sure if it's just the drill or if Canelo plans on being on the back foot on this fight. Not sure who that favors. He's not as active or crafty as Floyd defending and countering, but much more potent when he lands.

Looks great on the bag.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> no, Mayweather is focused and engaged throughout the whole 20-40 minutes he's hitting the pads, body shield or bag. That's 20-40 minutes straight also. He doesn't take any breaks. When he's doing his mitt routine, he's constantly in his boxing stance ready to defend, punch and counter. He has to be mentally engaged throughout the whole thing and it also improves his conditioning. If Canelo is just focusing strictly on power right now, then fine. But this is the only way I've ever seen him train. By the evidence I see in the ring, I'm inclined to believe that this is how he trains the majority of the time.
> 
> Canelo just throws a few punches, backs away and hops up and down with his hands low. It's lazy and a better trainer would have him taking less breaks. That would translate inside the ring too conditioning wise. Nacho Bernstein would force him to do exactly that.


You guys and your new trainer line it's getting so annoying. New trainers are over rated... cotto was a beast with his original trainer and Freddy just brought him back to his roots.

Trainers aren't the end be all answer, it depends on the fighter.

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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> You guys and your new trainer line it's getting so annoying. New trainers are over rated... cotto was a beast with his original trainer and Freddy just brought him back to his roots.
> 
> Trainers aren't the end be all answer, it depends on the fighter.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


I agree that new trainers are sometimes overrated, but not in the case of Canelo. I can spot very clear and obvious deficiencies that I can blame the trainer for. He doesn't need to drop his current one, but maybe hire an extra one like Broner did recently with Barry Hunter.

and it can't hurt. Like you said, Roach has turned many careers behind. Emanuel Steward as well.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I like it


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## Ilesey (Jun 8, 2012)

Canelo looks sharp.


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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

Canelo Looks pretty heavy


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Berliner said:


> Canelo Looks pretty heavy


Exactly what I said, but I thought he looked huge. He's wearing the same clothes so I think it's the same video too.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

RDJ said:


> Canelo's bag work is lazy as shit. He looks almost bored doing it.


It's a media workout.


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## BoxingGenius27 (Jun 8, 2013)

Canelo's gonna get whooped. Shouldn't last past the 5th or 6th


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Planning to hook with a left hook artist. Very risky and maybe dumb. Or potentially brilliant. Depends on the result


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Planning to hook with a left hook artist. Very risky and maybe dumb. Or potentially brilliant. Depends on the result


Canelo is fucking ready. So pumped. He's going to be faster, more explosive, and very clearly more powerful than Cotto.

I honestly can't fucking wait

And for all you dumb fucks out there I'm still accepting AVY bets for 1 month time period in which you will wear either the gayest pic of Cotto kissing Brian or a pic of Alvarez being a BOSS - I haven't decided yet, but I'm open to 1 month avy bets


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Excellent performance by Cotto against a C or B- level fighter, but even in this fight Cotto often elects to trade with opponents. Cotto loves to trade. He moves a bit - jockeying for position - but he loves to trade. Trading with Canelo is not a good plan.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

It is alarming though how much weight he has left to lose


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Ramonaber said:


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

The catch and counter left hook to the body is going to fold Cotto up. He's also doing a lot of footwork and upper body movement in that clip, something people on here having been saying he doesn't do...

Canelo has a faster, harder and more accurate hook to both the head and body which is why they are confident using the catch and counter strategy. Cotto doesn't have the same explosion with his shots and his chin isn't likely to be able to hold up if they ever do exchange hooks.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> It is alarming though how much weight he has left to lose


Alvarez is bigger than Golovkin lol.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

dyna said:


> Alvarez is bigger than Golovkin lol.


Canelo makes weight.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Interesting ideas from Roach. Sounds like he's going to have Cotto taking a Ward approach..fighting from the outside or in very close. As Froch put it, "he's either too far away or too close to hit". Canelo's best at mid-range for sure and he's going to have to show he's a champion by cracking either the distance (which he has a troubled history with) or showing he can fight on the inside. We'll see!


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)




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## RDJ (Jun 27, 2012)

bjl12 said:


> Canelo makes weight.


Of course, he has his own weight class.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

bjl12 said:


> It is alarming though how much weight he has left to lose


he's heavier than 168. 168 is what he needed to be for the 30 day weigh in he most likely dehydrated like for a real weigh in. Canelo will be easily over 170 on fight night it's not really alarming considering that he has been as high as 175 on fight night at 154 he will dehydrate I doubt he will diet down any further


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


>


lazyass lol


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

He has a much better pace here.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Didn't see anyone post this from almost a month ago.






Interesting to hear Cotto place Canelo as top 5 of his opponents. That's about right.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


>


Good to hear Roach recognize Canelo is clever and dangerous. I think he knows what he's looking at.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Cottos movement looks better every fight, no doubt one of the biggest test for Canelo will be Cottos smart movement and footwork


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

This is a test for cotto more then canelo.. canelo ain't no damaged fighter 

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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Doc said:


> You guys and your new trainer line it's getting so annoying. New trainers are over rated... cotto was a beast with his original trainer and Freddy just brought him back to his roots.
> 
> Trainers aren't the end be all answer, it depends on the fighter.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Steward improved Cotto's stance and punching form, Diaz improved his general boxing and re-emphasised his counter punching, Roach has got him to focus on foot positions to create opportunities to attack from preferred range. So yeah, each one helped Cotto to get back to who he was. Look at the mess of Cotto without a trainer, FFS.


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

TFG said:


> The catch and counter left hook to the body is going to fold Cotto up. He's also doing a lot of footwork and upper body movement in that clip, something people on here having been saying he doesn't do...
> 
> Canelo has a faster, harder and more accurate hook to both the head and body which is why they are confident using the catch and counter strategy. Cotto doesn't have the same explosion with his shots and his chin isn't likely to be able to hold up if they ever do exchange hooks.


You're assuming Cotto, who has excellent ring positioning, will stand in front of Canelo to let that shot in.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> You're assuming Cotto, who has excellent ring positioning, will stand in front of Canelo to let that shot in.


Cotto ends up trading in every fight he's ever been in. People think because he's with Roach that he'll all the sudden fight completely differently. All we've seen with Roach is Cotto stands in front of opponents *more* and shoots the left hook *more*. He also has fought mediocre competition so it's tough to gauge the alleged comeback. This fight will be a good metric to gauge where Cotto is and what - if anything - he's learned working w/ Roach.

My hunch is Cotto has some success early with his "gameplan" and craftiness, but Cotto has poor stamina and he's smaller and weaker than Canelo. Sooner or later, Canelo - who prefers the role of counter-puncher - is going to catch Cotto. The fight depends on how Cotto can handle those punches and how he will react.

I still like Canelo via KO/TKO late


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> He has a much better pace here.


Dude looks ready. I just hope the weight drain doesn't kill him


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

bjl12 said:


> Cotto ends up trading in every fight he's ever been in. People think because he's with Roach that he'll all the sudden fight completely differently. All we've seen with Roach is Cotto stands in front of opponents *more* and shoots the left hook *more*. He also has fought mediocre competition so it's tough to gauge the alleged comeback. This fight will be a good metric to gauge where Cotto is and what - if anything - he's learned working w/ Roach.
> 
> My hunch is Cotto has some success early with his "gameplan" and craftiness, but Cotto has poor stamina and he's smaller and weaker than Canelo. Sooner or later, Canelo - who prefers the role of counter-puncher - is going to catch Cotto. The fight depends on how Cotto can handle those punches and how he will react.
> 
> I still like Canelo via KO/TKO late


Cotto steps into range and steps around more, he's not static unless he's in his preferred position.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Doc said:


> This is a test for cotto more then canelo.. canelo ain't no damaged fighter
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Experience and educated vs youth and potential. Canelo has a lot more to lose. He cant afford this loss. Cotto has already had every test he needs, he is in fine comfortable form going into this fight. Work hard, listen to his trainer, continue with the philosophy and techniques that served him already. Nothing to lose hes already gone further than was expected by his fans


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Experience and educated vs youth and potential. Canelo has a lot more to lose. He cant afford this loss. Cotto has already had every test he needs, he is in fine comfortable form going into this fight. Work hard, listen to his trainer, continue with the philosophy and techniques that served him already. Nothing to lose hes already gone further than was expected by his fans


A loss for Cotto is the end of prima donna days...something Miguel has grown accustom to ever since he started talking about himself in the 3rd person.

A loss for Canelo is obviously not a good thing but Canelo isn't getting stopped or anything if he loses. He'll just be outboxed (***IF*** he loses). Canelo has an exciting style and has only one loss. Even a loss here, being outboxed, doesn't change a whole lot IMO. The same can be said if he brutalizes Cotto b/c Cotto is old and over-the-hill...for some reason people think his recent wins prove otherwise - they don't.

When Canelo wins...what does he do next? Wait for one of the Charlo's to become relevant? Drag down a couple of good MW's to 157? Unfortunately Canelo is in a tough spot win or lose as there are no salivating opponents left besides GGG and there's a weight disparity there that I don't think either guy will budge from.

Actually a loss for Canelo will secure him many more fights at 154/155. It would be acceptable for him to beat up on Andrade/Charlos for awhile


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> You're assuming Cotto, who has excellent ring positioning, will stand in front of Canelo to let that shot in.


Cotto steps in with his jab, but he plants his feet when he throws combinations. He doesn't throw them coming in and out of range like Pacquiao does. The examples are there to be seen in all of his last fights. Whenever the left hook is thrown his left foot is planted deep as he turns into it. In those situations he is static for a number of seconds.

Cotto can't help standing in front of Canelo. He simply won't be able to get a significant offense going without setting his feet at mid range. Which is where Canelo excels.

Cotto has never been very hard to hit, Roach certainly isn't the guy to change that. His last few opponents have been void of any fast, powerful offense.

Here is an example:










He moves, moves, moves then stops and plants his feet. He needs to plant his feet in order to dip and counter like he did right there. He is static and in the pocker for a decent amount of time here. More than enough time for the catch and shoot to the body or head.

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

People are forgetting that when Cotto "trades", it's always in an ideal position. Either on a side angle or really low in the pocket maximizing leverage and smaller height. Dropping down and going to the body in an opportune moment like that set up the left hook up top. It's not just slugging it out and seeing who's landing first, it's throwing with an opponent from a superior position. Canelo wouldn't like Cotto that close.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> People are forgetting that when Cotto "trades", it's always in an ideal position. Either on a side angle or really low in the pocket maximizing leverage and smaller height. Dropping down and going to the body in an opportune moment like that set up the left hook up top. It's not just slugging it out and seeing who's landing first, it's throwing with an opponent from a superior position. Canelo wouldn't like Cotto that close.


Those 'ideal positions' are only ideal if you're better than your opponent in that area, Cotto is not better than Canelo on the inside and mid range. He may be more technical in some areas but the intangible factors outweigh any minute advantage in technique. Canelo throws with much more explosion and power, with a wider variety of shots. He varies the angle on his upperuts and mixes head to body. Cotto doesn't have the body or chin to do that dance. Mayweather hurt him several times with uppercuts and badly hurt him with an uppercut in the last round, Canelo punches a lot, lot harder with a lot more spite. You are absolutey crazy if you think Cotto should put him self in a position to take those kind of shots off a 170lb+ Canelo. This isn't a 150lb Mayweather, Canelo is a beast.

Make no mistake about it, Cotto is going to be employing a Margarito style game plan, he knows he cant mix it up with Canelo.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> Those 'ideal positions' are only ideal if you're better than your opponent in that area, Cotto is not better than Canelo on the inside and mid range. He may be more technical in some areas but the intangible factors outweigh any minute advantage in technique. Canelo throws with much more explosion and power, with a wider variety of shots. He varies the angle on his upperuts and mixes head to body. Cotto doesn't have the body or chin to do that dance. Mayweather hurt him several times with uppercuts and badly hurt him with an uppercut in the last round, Canelo punches a lot, lot harder with a lot more spite. You are absolutey crazy if you think Cotto should put him self in a position to take those kind of shots off a 170lb+ Canelo. This isn't a 150lb Mayweather, Canelo is a beast.
> 
> Make no mistake about it, Cotto is going to be employing a Margarito style game plan, he knows he cant mix it up with Canelo.


Have we seen Canelo really function well on the inside? The smaller man should prevail on the inside and we've seen Cotto match with Mayweather on the inside. Canelo is almost purely a mid-range fighter. The moments that Cotto chooses to throw, he's either on a side angle or up against the opponent's chest, where the opponent's punches aren't as effective. And unlike the Floyd fight, he's been out of range whenever he's not throwing, instead of standing static at the end of a rangier fighter's shots like he was against Trout also. Canelo hits hard, sure, but Cotto's not just going to stand there and eat punches. If Canelo finds a way to land his shots consistently then that's to his credit; it won't be because Cotto is just there to be hit.


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

The irony, @TFG, is your gif proves my point more than yours.

Look how Cotto steps to the side out of Geale's preferred range for the hook, takes any leverage off of his right uppercut (which he's in position to slip with ease) before dipping and firing the hook. He sets his feet only when he has the position to take a calculated risk.

Canelo isn't good inside, doing all of his best work against guys that come to him in straight lines, and at mid range. He's not high output or especially great at leading because he struggles to dictate the terms of his fights - Trout and Lara both gave him problems with this, Mayweather had him fooled all night even backing him up with no real pressure, even Kirkland got him to the ropes through simple momentum.

It's not going to be easy for either man.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

TFG said:


> Cotto can't help standing in front of Canelo. He simply won't be able to get a significant offense going without setting his feet at mid range. Which is where Canelo excels.
> 
> Cotto has never been very hard to hit, Roach certainly isn't the guy to change that. His last few opponents have been void of any fast, powerful offense.
> 
> ...


Great point and awesome example. Cotto literally walks up the guy, inches away, Geale forgoes height, reach, size and lets Cotto get off with the one punch he can hurt someone with. Canelo has underrated defense and I don't have to talk about his power or explosiveness. It's a legit matchup either way


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Have we seen Canelo really function well on the inside? The smaller man should prevail on the inside and we've seen Cotto match with Mayweather on the inside. Canelo is almost purely a mid-range fighter. The moments that Cotto chooses to throw, he's either on a side angle or up against the opponent's chest, where the opponent's punches aren't as effective. And unlike the Floyd fight, he's been out of range whenever he's not throwing, instead of standing static at the end of a rangier fighter's shots like he was against Trout also. Canelo hits hard, sure, but Cotto's not just going to stand there and eat punches. If Canelo finds a way to land his shots consistently then that's to his credit; it won't be because Cotto is just there to be hit.


Cotto won't be closing the distance against Canelo the way he did versus Geale. I can guarantee that


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Cotto won't be closing the distance against Canelo the way he did versus Geale. I can guarantee that


Well Cotto let Geale come to him plenty as well and Canelo looks like he's going to try and come forward. But of course this won't be as easy as the Geale fight.


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

bjl12 said:


> Great point and awesome example. Cotto literally walks up the guy, inches away, Geale forgoes height, reach, size and lets Cotto get off with the one punch he can hurt someone with. Canelo has underrated defense and I don't have to talk about his power or explosiveness. It's a legit matchup either way


Watch the gif properly - that's not what happens at all.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> The irony, @*TFG*, is your gif proves my point more than yours.
> 
> Look how Cotto steps to the side out of Geale's preferred range for the hook, takes any leverage off of his right uppercut (which he's in position to slip with ease) before dipping and firing the hook. He sets his feet only when he has the position to take a calculated risk.
> 
> ...


You're strawmanning a bit here, as you've just described the punch sequence as if that is what we are debating. We are not, you questioned how the catch and counter would work with Cotto's movement. I showed you a perfect example of Cotto closing the distance and setting his feet before he throws, something you inferred he doesn't do. I'm well aware Cotto set up that nicely, but it's hardly the point, he was stepping in to throw regardless. In this isntance he timed Geale nicely, there's plenty of points in those fight where he did the exact same thing but doesn't land. When that happens, Canelo will counter and hurt him.

The idea that Canelo isn't a good inside fighter is ridiculous, most of his mid range explosiveness comes from when he is on the inside. Kirkland fight is a perfect example, he leans on you, then pushes off to create space for his combinations. He beat the shit out of him face to face. Cotto doesn't have the chin to take those shots that Canelo lands so easily.

So no, the GIF doesn't work against me, it quite literally showcases the exact point I was making. Unlike certain fighters like Pacquaio, Cotto sets his feet before throwing his combinations, this isn't really debateable. Your point about Cotto only taking a 'calculated' risk doesn't mean much either, seeing as he does that move multiple times during most of his fights and it's far from a 100% success rate.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Geale was a drained bum come on lol

You cotto fans reaching hard for any sign of hope. ..

Keep dreaming tho, 2 weeks and yall going to be coming in with the excuses. Guaranteed.

Canelo ain't no damaged fighter and you really think cotto going to come at canelo lol.. roach already says they are going to try and break canelo down and try and box early and pick up late... the pick up late won't happen as canelo will be happy to bix with cotto being the bigger taller and rangier fighter and cotto don't have stamina for the later rounds to pick it up and "break him down" lol what are they Margarito or what.. cotto going to box on his toes to try and frustrate canelo and try to make it close for the cards. ..

Almost there punetas, mama bichos

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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

http://www.boxingscene.com/juan-manuel-marquez-tabs-cotto-beat-canelo--97852

Marquez has Cotto winning the fight :think

@Bogotazo


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

nuclear said:


> http://www.boxingscene.com/juan-manuel-marquez-tabs-cotto-beat-canelo--97852
> 
> Marquez has Cotto winning the fight :think
> 
> @Bogotazo


Marquez is biased because he hates canelo like how bogo does...

Beristein has canelo.

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

nuclear said:


> http://www.boxingscene.com/juan-manuel-marquez-tabs-cotto-beat-canelo--97852
> 
> Marquez has Cotto winning the fight :think
> 
> @Bogotazo


JMM is usually right, even when I don't want him to be.

(sun)


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Cottos movement looks better every fight, no doubt one of the biggest test for Canelo will be Cottos smart movement and footwork


Roach really seems to be drilling that right hand. Interesting. Also like the counter hook to the uppercut. Great variation in the combos and set-ups overall.

Love how they have him moving in such a tight circle. It's effortless that way.

And I think the most important thing is, he's engaged every second and enjoying it.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Trout has fought both guys, he's picking Canelo. I'm pretty sure Floyd would be as well, afterall, he showed Canelo way more respect than he give to Cotto. He was happy to take everything Cotto could dish out, he wouldn't let Canelo get near him.

Roach's gameplan probably gets Cotto knocked out in this fight. Cotto has struggled with cardio his whole career, regardless of who he has had in his corner. He was in excellent shape under Diaz and still gassed. Taking Canelo into the late rounds doesn't make sense, it's Cotto who has the problem there. Canelo might take the occasional round off during the middle of the fight, but he holds his power all the way through the fight and is usually fresh in the final rounds. Despite chasing Lara around all night, he had plenty in the tank to take it to him in the last round. Mix in the body shots and Cotto is not going to be the fresher fighter.

I really can't believe how people are hyping Cotto's wins over a shot Martinez and Daniel Geale. Cotto hasn't fought anyone who hits as hard as Canelo in a long time, what's with people pretending he suddenly has the chin/body to take shots from a 170lb Canelo? Roach or not, he is the same guy who got rocked around the ring by Mayweather. In fact, I'd be surprised if he turns up in as good shape as he was in for that fight.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> JMM is usually right, even when I don't want him to be.
> 
> (sun)


JMM just likes being the "Best Mexican" fighter. He always votes against other Mexicans b/c he wants to feel important.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

TFG said:


> Trout has fought both guys, he's picking Canelo. I'm pretty sure Floyd would be as well, afterall, he showed Canelo way more respect than he give to Cotto. He was happy to take everything Cotto could dish out, he wouldn't let Canelo get near him.


Trout is usually pretty honest too. I remember Floyd saying in his May fight training camp (he fought Canelo in September...2013 I think) the he could *still* feel a Left Hook Canelo hit him with. I believe it was the Hook in Round 5 of their fight.

Anyhow, Canelo is going to gain some serious momentum w/ this fight and I think it will be competitive while it lasts until it comes to a crashing tipping point...where Canelo ices this prima donna fighter and trainer (Roach prima donna too - fuckwad)


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> JMM just likes being the "Best Mexican" fighter. He always votes against other Mexicans b/c he wants to feel important.


Except that's not true. He backs Mexicans all the time in his picks on Golpe a Golpe. God forbid he pick against your idol.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> I'm pretty sure Floyd would be as well, afterall, he showed Canelo way more respect than he give to Cotto. He was happy to take everything Cotto could dish out, he wouldn't let Canelo get near him.


What??? Floyd showed Canelo little respect at all. He went right at Canelo and backed him up. He even clowned him. It was his most offensive showing in years. He fought Cotto off because he had to and took heavy shots in return, and commented how tough it was afterwards. I can't wrap my head around people spinning that into Floyd showing Canelo respect. At all.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Trout is usually pretty honest too. I remember Floyd saying in his May fight training camp (he fought Canelo in September...2013 I think) the he could *still* feel a Left Hook Canelo hit him with. I believe it was the Hook in Round 5 of their fight.
> 
> Anyhow, Canelo is going to gain some serious momentum w/ this fight and I think it will be competitive while it lasts until it comes to a crashing tipping point...where Canelo ices this prima donna fighter and trainer (Roach prima donna too - fuckwad)


Fan boys gunna fanboy


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> What??? Floyd showed Canelo little respect at all. He went right at Canelo and backed him up. He even clowned him. It was his most offensive showing in years. He fought Cotto off because he had to and took heavy shots in return, and commented how tough it was afterwards. I can't wrap my head around people spinning that into Floyd showing Canelo respect. At all.


Well to start, you are completely and utterly wrong. Not just from my view, but from Floyd's as well. He said this in the post fight press conference and he has said it in other interviews since.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about, Floyd's most recent offensive showing was against Cotto. In a fight where he literally layed on the ropes and exchanged with him. He fought on the inside with him and stacked him around with power shots in the middle of the ring. He exchanged plenty with Cotto and he was happy too. He wanted to prove a point. He knew he could beat Cotto at his own game, why do you think he released a load of sparring before the fight? He doesn't do that with fighters he fears.

You do realise that after the Cotto fight Floyd Sr was brought into make Floyd more defensive again? Reason being that he was too offensive in the Cotto fight, which goes completely against your point.

The more defensive Floyd under Snr is what we saw against Canelo. He had no desire to exchange with Canelo, he kept him at a distance and didn't stay on the ropes for more than a second. He respected his speed and power, he knew he couldn't beat him and at that game. He didn't think that against Cotto. He damn nearly knocked him out. He didn't come close to hurting Canelo. Perfect example is when Canelo was against the ropes and Floyd refused to take the bait and attack him.

Floyd has since said that he still feels shots Canelo landed and said he is the next guy to takeover. He fought a VERY smart fight because he knew he had to. He fought recklessly against Cotto because he could. You really need to watch these fights more.

Floyd didn't 'have' to fight Cotto like that at all. That's akin to the same people saying he wasn't letting Maidana get close in the first fight. Go watch the 12th round of the Cotto fight and tell me what happens. Floyd gets on his bike and EASILY avoids Cotto, turning him and moving him wherever he wants. He could have done this the whole fight. There was points in the fight where Floyd literally waited on the ropes for Cotto to come back. He wanted that fight and he prepared for it. Did you not see the sparring from the camp. It looks exactly like the way he fought Cotto. In the pocket, outclassing him. You didn't see Floyd want to get that close to Canelo.

He also brought Canelo down to a catch weight, he was happy to concede more weight to Cotto.

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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

TFG said:


> Well to start, you are completely and utterly wrong. Not just from my view, but from Floyd's as well. He said this in the post fight press conference and he has said it in other interviews since.
> 
> I honestly have no idea what you are talking about, Floyd's most recent offensive showing was against Cotto. In a fight where he literally layed on the ropes and exchanged with him. He fought on the inside with him and stacked him around with power shots in the middle of the ring. He exchanged plenty with Cotto and he was happy too. He wanted to prove a point. He knew he could beat Cotto at his own game, why do you think he released a load of sparring before the fight? He doesn't do that with fighters he fears.
> 
> ...


Checkmate.

Bogotard has cottos nuts blinding him, so I'd take his posts with a huge grain of salt.

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## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

Doc said:


> Marquez is biased because he hates canelo like how bogo does...
> 
> Beristein has canelo.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


True lol


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> Well to start, you are completely and utterly wrong. Not just from my view, but from Floyd's as well. He said this in the post fight press conference and he has said it in other interviews since.
> 
> I honestly have no idea what you are talking about, Floyd's most recent offensive showing was against Cotto. In a fight where he literally layed on the ropes and exchanged with him. He fought on the inside with him and stacked him around with power shots in the middle of the ring. He exchanged plenty with Cotto and he was happy too. He wanted to prove a point. He knew he could beat Cotto at his own game, why do you think he released a load of sparring before the fight? He doesn't do that with fighters he fears.
> 
> ...


Floyd walked Canelo down, Floyd fought Cotto off. He was not fighting recklessly, that's ridiculous, he was getting pressed and had to use a variety of shots at range to stop Cotto from just walking in. There's no way you can convince me by typing words that Floyd showed Canelo more respect when he was attacking him and cornering him and clowning him. Canelo was one of Floyd's most offensive performances in years. He was leading with combinations ffs. I've watched the fights plenty. I don't need to watch them any more, you need to understand what respect is. Just because Floyd was forced to fight an inside fight against Cotto (like he often is against good pressure fighters) doesn't mean he said "fuck it I'll bang with this guy". Shit Floyd chose to stand in the pocket with Canelo at times and rip combinations. He was almost always backpedaling with Cotto, and yet stood right in front of Canelo and walked him down repeatedly.










That's not respect. Just because Canelo didn't land much and couldn't force a defensive fighter to take risks doesn't mean Floyd was scared of him. I can show you a multitude of fights where Floyd retreated far more often. Hatton, Pacquiao, Maidana, Guerrero, even Berto. So while each man's respective performances against Floyd have little bearing on their fight, please stop trying to spin Canelo's onesided loss into Floyd somehow being afraid of him. He played with him. End of story.


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## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

TFG said:


> Well to start, you are completely and utterly wrong. Not just from my view, but from Floyd's as well. He said this in the post fight press conference and he has said it in other interviews since.
> 
> I honestly have no idea what you are talking about, Floyd's most recent offensive showing was against Cotto. In a fight where he literally layed on the ropes and exchanged with him. He fought on the inside with him and stacked him around with power shots in the middle of the ring. He exchanged plenty with Cotto and he was happy too. He wanted to prove a point. He knew he could beat Cotto at his own game, why do you think he released a load of sparring before the fight? He doesn't do that with fighters he fears.
> 
> ...


Bogo is a bona-fide Canelo hater man. I'm beginning to think he's actually Juan Manuel Marquez. Lol


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

genaro g said:


> Bogo is a bona-fide Canelo hater man. I'm beginning to think he's actually Juan Manuel Marquez. Lol


I don't hate Canelo, I just think that statement is ridiculous. And Canelo's fans are out of control, if he wins they'll be insufferable. The new flomos.


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## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> What??? Floyd showed Canelo little respect at all. He went right at Canelo and backed him up. He even clowned him. It was his most offensive showing in years. He fought Cotto off because he had to and took heavy shots in return, and commented how tough it was afterwards. I can't wrap my head around people spinning that into Floyd showing Canelo respect. At all.


I think Cotto has an excellent chance of beating Canelo and I've already bet money on just that and will be putting more money on Cotto as the fight draws near, but my biggest concern is that Cotto's right hand might not be powerful enough to gain Canelo's respect.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

KERRIGAN said:


> I think Cotto has an excellent chance of beating Canelo and I've already bet money on just that and will be putting more money on Cotto as the fight draws near, but my biggest concern is that Cotto's right hand might not be powerful enough to gain Canelo's respect.


His right hand is an interesting thing. It was a force at 140 (remember the Torres fight), and showed up strong in the Mosley fight, but then it became a space filler for combinations and almost disappeared from his arsenal. Steward had him throwing 1-2's better and then Cotto had surgery after revealing it bothered him so long. Against Margarito and Floyd it had a decent showing. We've seen it more to the body than the head under Roach, but in the last mitt workout it looks like Roach is really making him drill the right hand. Multiple straight rights in a row, getting him to throw it with authority. The more options Cotto has the better, he'll need them.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Also interesting when Roach says "the angles are getting deeper".

*"He is stronger [than he was in previous camps]. He's hitting much harder. He's pivoting his shots a lot better. We worked a lot of sitting down, but sitting down for that one punch and then getting out right away. I don't want him to stay in front of his opponent for too long, because when you stay in front of your opponent for too long - he's going to hit you back. We're using combinations for that, and angles, and the angles are getting deeper and deeper - further away from me where I can't attack him. I think he's going to be very effective in this fight," Roach said.*


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Floyd walked Canelo down, Floyd fought Cotto off. He was not fighting recklessly, that's ridiculous, he was getting pressed and had to use a variety of shots at range to stop Cotto from just walking in. There's no way you can convince me by typing words that Floyd showed Canelo more respect when he was attacking him and cornering him and clowning him. Canelo was one of Floyd's most offensive performances in years. He was leading with combinations ffs. I've watched the fights plenty. I don't need to watch them any more, you need to understand what respect is. Just because Floyd was forced to fight an inside fight against Cotto (like he often is against good pressure fighters) doesn't mean he said "fuck it I'll bang with this guy". Shit Floyd chose to stand in the pocket with Canelo at times and rip combinations. He was almost always backpedaling with Cotto, and yet stood right in front of Canelo and walked him down repeatedly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You've barely addressed a single point I made here, and are instead going ahead with this myth that Mayweather was the most offensive he has been in years. I don't think you will find a single person on here, barring trolls, who would agree with you that Floyd was more aggressive against Canelo than he was against Cotto. It's a blatant lie fueled by bias.

Yes Floyd walked Canelo down, that was the gameplan. He walked him down very carefully, he didn't overcommit to anything and dominated the fight with his left jab and short counter right hands. You can't post any sequence from that fight that shows Floyd landing multiple combinations on the inside and powerful right hooks and left uppercuts. Floyd fought defensively from distance, he found range with the jab and pierceed his shots through then backed off. He done that all night. He followed the gameplan to the tee and fought a defensive, long range fight.

That was not the gameplan for Cotto, the gameplan for Cotto was to beat him at his own game. He wanted to beat him up on the inside and rope a dope. He knew the long right hook would be the shot to hurt Cotto with (He took that from the Mosley fight). Floyd released hours of sparring leading up to the fight, something he only ever does when he feels supremenly confident. In that footage he lays on the ropes and fights a bigger Cotto-clone in Omar Henry. He doesn't move around the ring or turn his partner, he fights exactly like he did agaisnt Cotto.

You've havent disputed any of the points put forward, why was Floyd so willing to remain on the ropes when he could have easily escaped? Why was he VERY keen on engaging Cotto on the inside, rather than holding and stalling like he did against two more dangerous opponents in Canelo and Pacquiao? How was Mayweather so easily able to evade a game Cotto in the last round, but apparently have no choice in the earlier rounds? Why does Mayweather say to this day that Canelo hits harder and is the future of boxing? You can't answer these questions because the answers directly contradict your argument.

You're also saying Floyd never fought recklessly, yet again you are trying to tell us you know about Mayweather than the man himself. He went out there trying to prove a point and it landed him in more trouble than usual, that's whats happens when you choose to beat someone at their own game. You take your own licks. After this fight Mayweather Sr was brought in specifically to deal the recklessness Floyd showed. He was there to make him more defensive, like the one we saw against Canelo. You can say all you like that Mayweather had no choice to be on the ropes but you're clearly overplaying Cotto's abilities. I can show you points in the fight where Mayweather literally stays on the ropes and invites Cotto back into the action, is something a fighter does when he doesn't have a choice, or is that a fighter dictating exactly where this fight takes place?

Respect is about respecting your opponents skills. Floyd has seen Cotto before, he has seen people beat him and he considered him a step below. That's why he didn't care about the usualy very secretive sparring, that's why he wanted to fight him close range and genuinely try to knock him out. Cotto got busted up, to the body and to the head, he was nearly knocked out and outboxed for the vast majority of the fight. Canelo was outboxed but he wasn't close to being beaten up. He wasn't stunned, wobbled or hurt to the body. Any time Mayweather backed him up, it was very a limited amount of time, then he backed off, because he wasn't willing to let Canelo stay in punching range. Especially after Canelo landed a left hook that Floyd says he still feels today.

Here's a video for you to enjoy, watch a much more reckless Mayweather genuinely trying to beat up an opponent and fighting on the inside, rather than clinching and spoiling, like he could have easily done. That's what you can do when your not fearful of the fire power coming back, you increase your own. If your worried about what your much bigger, younger and more dangerous opponents can do to you, you keep your distance and fight a disciplined fight.






^^ Look at how he is much more interested in punching and countering when Cotto his in his face, where is the evasive footwork and holding?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> You've barely addressed a single point I made here, and are instead going ahead with this myth that Mayweather was the most offensive he has been in years. I don't think you will find a single person on here, barring trolls, who would agree with you that Floyd was more aggressive against Canelo than he was against Cotto. It's a blatant lie fueled by bias.
> 
> Yes Floyd walked Canelo down, that was the gameplan. He walked him down very carefully, he didn't overcommit to anything and dominated the fight with his left jab and short counter right hands. You can't post any sequence from that fight that shows Floyd landing multiple combinations on the inside and powerful right hooks and left uppercuts. Floyd fought defensively from distance, he found range with the jab and pierceed his shots through then backed off. He done that all night. He followed the gameplan to the tee and fought a defensive, long range fight.
> 
> ...


I don't care for your essays, Floyd played with and walked down Canelo and had to fight off Cotto, that doesn't translate into Floyd fearing and respecting Canelo more. It's that simple. I don't really care to convince you of that truth.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I don't care for your essays, Floyd played with and walked down Canelo and had to fight off Cotto, that doesn't translate into Floyd fearing and respecting Canelo more. It's that simple. I don't really care to convince you of that truth.


He walked him down in one instance wtf are you talking about and that was when canelo was taking a break on ropes. .. you won't find many other instances. ... why is the fight being summarized in that sense by only one instance you are seriously reaching. Mayweather was being defensive the majority of the fight and didn't want to exchange the same way as with cotto who was happy to trade and actually walk down and try to knock him out and he got very close to.

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## Ainsley Harriot (Jul 12, 2015)

For all you bumbaclarts that haven't seen this yet.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> He walked him down in one instance wtf are you talking about and that was when canelo was taking a break on ropes. .. you won't find many other instances. ... why is the fight being summarized in that sense by only one instance you are seriously reaching. Mayweather was being defensive the majority of the fight and didn't want to exchange the same way as with cotto who was happy to trade and actually walk down and try to knock him out and he got very close to.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Lol @ taking a break. Don't quote me just to defend your hero with nonsense please. Thanks.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Lol @ taking a break. Don't quote me just to defend your hero with nonsense please. Thanks.


He also went to ropes to lure mayweather into a counter in which mayweather and Paulie are quoted as saying that as proof that the ginger is a student of the game to be able to employ old school tricks like that. This is a fact unlike your statements where you paint the picture that mayweather was walking him down for 12 rounds lmao..yeah one instance and gif is the whole story what a pendejo.

Just watch round 12 of both fights to get an idea.. Mayweather almost ktfo cotto and cotto was hugging for dear life while with canelo mayweather was running on the back foot waiting for that bell to ring not wanting to engage.

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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I agree with those saying that Floyd was a lot more offensive vs Cotto. He walked Canelo down a few times, but he was chasing after Cotto more than once and invited him to the ropes. I don't think that really has much to do with this fight though. Mayweather was different from those 2 fights and Cotto was different then than he is now. 

On another note I watched Cotto vs Geale again yesterday. I already said it before, but really had to comment on it. Cotto wastes so much energy under Freddie Roach. Canelo takes a lot of breaks, but Cotto's gas tank just slowly depletes and doesn't refresh


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> On another note I watched Cotto vs Geale again yesterday. I already said it before, but really had to comment on it. Cotto wastes so much energy under Freddie Roach. Canelo takes a lot of breaks, but Cotto's gas tank just slowly depletes and doesn't refresh


I remember you considering it wasted movement. But we haven't seen yet if that effects his conditioning in the long term since he has yet to go to a decision with Roach. For me it looks more like the natural rhythm he had at the beginning of his career. Roach seems to be saying that the angles on his pivots are getting deeper. I think that means he's going to be circling tighter. Cotto used to gas when he danced around the ring making wide circles, but he's never running with Roach. What do you think?


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Doc said:


> He walked him down in one instance wtf are you talking about and that was when canelo was taking a break on ropes. .. you won't find many other instances. ... why is the fight being summarized in that sense by only one instance you are seriously reaching. Mayweather was being defensive the majority of the fight and didn't want to exchange the same way as with cotto who was happy to trade and actually walk down and try to knock him out and he got very close to.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Spot on.

Mayweather was happy to be on the ropes throwing uppercuts and hooks, it's what he had trained for.

His assesment of the Canelo fight is way off, even in this instance Mayweather backs him up, he stills ends up backing off after Canelo plays possum and hits him with a right hand. Mayweather didn't come close to hurting him.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I remember you considering it wasted movement. But we haven't seen yet if that effects his conditioning in the long term since he has yet to go to a decision with Roach. For me it looks more like the natural rhythm he had at the beginning of his career. Roach seems to be saying that the angles on his pivots are getting deeper. I think that means he's going to be circling tighter. Cotto used to gas when he danced around the ring making wide circles, but he's never running with Roach. What do you think?


yeah that could be it. I'm not convinced that conditioning wise, he'll be in better shape than he was with Pedro Diaz, but maybe the tighter circling will help with the wasted movement. It's not just the circling though, but the constant movement with his upperbody and how tense he is in general. Though Canelo is the king of being tense lol. He's lazy though and doesn't have wasted movement.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah that could be it. I'm not convinced that conditioning wise, he'll be in better shape than he was with Pedro Diaz, but maybe the tighter circling will help with the wasted movement. It's not just the circling though, but the constant movement with his upperbody and how tense he is in general. Though Canelo is the king of being tense lol. He's lazy though and doesn't have wasted movement.


I too would be surprised if he was in better shape than under Diaz.

In that camp he was doing a lot of intesive conditioning with a sport scientist. They got him in fantastic shape, and even then he still looked vulnerable at the end of the Mayweather fight.

I can understand Roach improving certain areas of his game but I don't see stamina being one of them. Cotto has always gassed, no matter who he has had in his corner.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> I too would be surprised if he was in better shape than under Diaz.
> 
> In that camp he was doing a lot of intesive conditioning with a sport scientist. They got him in fantastic shape, and even then he still looked vulnerable at the end of the Mayweather fight.
> 
> I can understand Roach improving certain areas of his game but I don't see stamina being one of them. Cotto has always gassed, no matter who he has had in his corner.


yeah exactly, and Canelo's body shots are a bitch. I did reevaulate this fight in the past week and tried to picture a Cotto who's pivoting out and letting off tricky combinations and then getting out vs Canelo. Just getting in and out and using his jab to be unpredictable. Then I actually started watching some film. He's gonna be forced to be in Canelo's range and he'll be there for too long.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah that could be it. I'm not convinced that conditioning wise, he'll be in better shape than he was with Pedro Diaz, but maybe the tighter circling will help with the wasted movement. It's not just the circling though, but the constant movement with his upperbody and how tense he is in general. Though Canelo is the king of being tense lol. He's lazy though and doesn't have wasted movement.


I'll have to rewatch it. I kind of like it because it makes him less static. I think I'd rather him be firing on all cylinders for 9 rounds and having to clinch or shell up for 3 than having him trying to conserve his energy and compromising his positioning, if I had to choose.

I also suspect that maybe he was doing too much with Pedro Diaz, even though the conditioning looked beastly. Roach said one of the things he did was get Cotto to stop running so much and cut down the mileage. Yet he's looking super slim around the waist. It's a common adjustment older fighters make.

Canelo's tenseness kind of reminds me of De La Hoya. Always balling his fist up it looks like.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I'll have to rewatch it. I kind of like it because it makes him less static. I think I'd rather him be firing on all cylinders for 9 rounds and having to clinch or shell up for 3 than having him trying to conserve his energy and compromising his positioning, if I had to choose.
> 
> I also suspect that maybe he was doing too much with Pedro Diaz, even though the conditioning looked beastly. Roach said one of the things he did was get Cotto to stop running so much and cut down the mileage. Yet he's looking super slim around the waist. It's a common adjustment older fighters make.
> 
> Canelo's tenseness kind of reminds me of De La Hoya. Always balling his fist up it looks like.


True and he can probably get away with that with Canelo as opposed to Margarito. I guess we just need a bigger sample size


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

It's all rhetoric until Canelo starts thudding this old gatekeeper with body shots and combinations. Cotto will fold up like a chair once he sees Canelo is not the C-level competition he's been fighting the past few years.

And Roach can talk all the shit he wants. He always talks shit. He talked shit in JMM 3 and JMM 4. He talked shit against Mayweather. And he talked shit about Danny Garcia w/ Khan. Roach is just a shittalker and few people hold him responsible for his whorish mouth...prolly cause he has Parkinson's, but the dude is full of shit.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> this old gatekeeper


Stop. Just stop.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah exactly, and Canelo's body shots are a bitch. I did reevaulate this fight in the past week and tried to picture a Cotto who's pivoting out and letting off tricky combinations and then getting out vs Canelo. Just getting in and out and using his jab to be unpredictable. Then I actually started watching some film. He's gonna be forced to be in Canelo's range and he'll be there for too long.


There's going to be a size disparity too. And at this level it matters. Canelo as never had trouble with any fighter that's not a slick boxer. Don't see why Cotto is any different. Yes Cotto has a nice jab, strong hook, and can counter-punch okay. But he has little defense and people grossly underestimate Canelo's strengths...limiting him to a C or C+ fighter without really watching what he does in there. Canelo is crafty and has taken the Floyd and Lara fights in stride (as well as the Kirkland, Angulo, and Trout fights).

Roach says "Cotto's fought the better competition". Is he fucking high? Cotto hasn't fought anyone yet. Some random journeyman, a Sergio Martinez who didn't even spar in training camp (couldnt because of his knees), and Danie Geale who is at best a B- fighter...and that took place at a catchweight.

Meanwhile Canelo's fought Kirkland, Lara, Angulo, Floyd, Trout.

You tell me whose ready for the step up in competition.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Floyd walked Canelo down, Floyd fought Cotto off. He was not fighting recklessly, that's ridiculous, he was getting pressed and had to use a variety of shots at range to stop Cotto from just walking in. There's no way you can convince me by typing words that Floyd showed Canelo more respect when he was attacking him and cornering him and clowning him. Canelo was one of Floyd's most offensive performances in years. He was leading with combinations ffs. I've watched the fights plenty. I don't need to watch them any more, you need to understand what respect is. Just because Floyd was forced to fight an inside fight against Cotto (like he often is against good pressure fighters) doesn't mean he said "fuck it I'll bang with this guy". Shit Floyd chose to stand in the pocket with Canelo at times and rip combinations. He was almost always backpedaling with Cotto, and yet stood right in front of Canelo and walked him down repeatedly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Comparing Floyd's defensive prowess (arguably GOAT defensive fighter and at worst Top 3 among Sweet Pea and Pep) to Cotto's defense...lol. You might want to stock up on Gatorade and water products on 11/22 because you are going to be salty.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Comparing Floyd's defensive prowess (arguably GOAT defensive fighter and at worst Top 3 among Sweet Pea and Pep) to Cotto's defense


Never happened, learn to read.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Never happened, learn to read.


Cotto won't be able to stay in the pocket w/ Canelo is what I'm saying. And it was b/c Floyd's defensive prowess that enabled him to do that. Cotto doesn't have that ability. That's what I was saying and you are being way too defensive.


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

In this thread, I'm hearing about this totally new fighter called Canelo, who is different to the guy I've watched fir years.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> In this thread, I'm hearing about this totally new fighter called Canelo, who is different to the guy I've watched fir years.


Funny you say that, because I've been asking or a while who this miraculous new fighter Canelo is facing. Apparently he's not the guy who gets hit and hurt regularly whilst gassing consistently throughout his career.

I was sure it was the same guy who got hit with the same two shots all night against Mayweather and got thoroughly outboxed by Trout.

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

TFG said:


> Funny you say that, because I've been asking or a while who this miraculous new fighter Canelo is facing. Apparently he's not the guy who gets hit and hurt regularly whilst gassing consistently throughout his career.
> 
> I was sure it was the same guy who got hit with the same two shots all night against Mayweather and got thoroughly outboxed by Trout.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


I don't think anyone's disputing Cotto's flaws. But his strengths are getting completely discounted. Canelo gasses in his fights, he's poor at transitioning from offence to defence and back, plus he's low output to the point of inaction at times. He doesn't dictate his fights, and barely won against Trout or Lara.

He's got real strengths of course, but he's not some sharp shooting assassin who will simply take Cotto out like many are claiming.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> I don't think anyone's disputing Cotto's flaws. But his strengths are getting completely discounted. Canelo gasses in his fights, he's poor at transitioning from offence to defence and back, plus he's low output to the point of inaction at times. He doesn't dictate his fights, and barely won against Trout or Lara.
> 
> He's got real strengths of course, but he's not some sharp shooting assassin who will simply take Cotto out like many are claiming.


What fight has Canelo gassed in? He looked very fresh in round 12 against Lara.

Plenty of people are disputing Cotto's believe, you your self questioned how Canelo is going to be able to catch and shoot against his 'excellent ring positioning '. It's like one of you haven't watched him fight in about 10 years.

Technical strengths don't always win you fights, not when you are this outgunned.

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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Canelos parts 24/7 were great but I also liked Cotto and Freddie talking about youth being an advantage.

Cotto-
"I was 25 once in my life, when I had this age I believed I could beat anyone , I believed was strongest person in the ring. Now I see the fight different, when things get complicated in the fight I have experience to just do it"

Freddie-
"I think Canelos youth will help him to a certain point but after that point we will take over"

Nothing mind blowing but it seems prophetic, sincere words


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> I don't think anyone's disputing Cotto's flaws. But his strengths are getting completely discounted. Canelo gasses in his fights, he's poor at transitioning from offence to defence and back, plus he's low output to the point of inaction at times. He doesn't dictate his fights, *and barely won against Trout or Lara.
> *
> He's got real strengths of course, but he's not some sharp shooting assassin who will simply take Cotto out like many are claiming.


Cotto lost to Trout


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

yeah i do think cotto has a real chance here, stylistically at least. he has to really really pump his jab and be constantly moving. Stick and move. Canelo sucks at cutting the ring off & has cement feet so don't let the mexican get his feet planted to throw those vicious combos. don't trade with Canelo. pick your spots, let loose with the left hook at times but be sure to use a lot of footwork

there are a lot of uncertainties with this fight tbh. i have no idea if Canelo's power and counters will bother Cotto. that could be a huge factor. there seems to be a lot of polarizing opinions about Canelo's power. Cotto could get stopped here. Cotto has been hurt and floored by lesser punchers than Canelo. I dunno. tough fight. i have no idea how its gonna go.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Some really nice clips of Canelo training and sparring for this fight. His accuracy and explosiveness looks scary at the moment, there's no way Cotto will want to fight up close when he feels those kind of shots.

I can't wait to see how Canelo looks and what new tricks he has up his sleeve, he always brings something. A clear sign that he is still improving as a fighter.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> Some really nice clips of Canelo training and sparring for this fight. His accuracy and explosiveness looks scary at the moment, there's no way Cotto will want to fight up close when he feels those kind of shots.
> 
> I can't wait to see how Canelo looks and what new tricks he has up his sleeve, he always brings something. A clear sign that he is still improving as a fighter.


Looks extremely quick in that first clip.


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> Cotto lost to Trout


And Cotto won rounds off Floyd, sonething Canelo can't say.


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Looks extremely quick in that first clip.


Looks lead footed too.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> And Cotto won rounds off Floyd, sonething Canelo can't say.


Canelo won rounds mayweather didn't have a 12-0 performance .. try again.

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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Doc said:


> Canelo won rounds mayweather didn't have a 12-0 performance .. try again.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Yep, he did. At best, Canelo got a round. At best. It was as comprehensive a schooling as you'll see, where even the normally circumspect Floyd was walking to Canelo and backing him up.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> And Cotto won rounds off Floyd, sonething Canelo can't say.


yeah but isn't it silly to try and downplay Canelo by saying he struggled with Trout when Trout had just beat Cotto?


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah but isn't it silly to try and downplay Canelo by saying he struggled with Trout when Trout had just beat Cotto?


I'm saying that you need to consider the respective performances and also the styles and physical limitations of both guys. Canelo beat Trout so, by that logic should have done better against Floyd than Cotto did. But he didn't because he hasn't got the traits and talents that Cotto used to trouble Floyd, and Cotto lacked the same to trouble Trout.

Canelo's biggest problem in this fight will be Cotto's movement. He will heed to be absolutely on his A-game countering to defuse the older man. And Cotto will need to ensure he comes in at angles to avoid the younger man's aggression.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> Looks lead footed too.


Yeah, but I've said that enough lol. Every drill is him standing there letting them rip. We know he can do that, not the challenge.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> I'm saying that you need to consider the respective performances and also the styles and physical limitations of both guys. Canelo beat Trout so, by that logic should have done better against Floyd than Cotto did. But he didn't because he hasn't got the traits and talents that Cotto used to trouble Floyd, and Cotto lacked the same to trouble Trout.
> 
> Canelo's biggest problem in this fight will be Cotto's movement. He will heed to be absolutely on his A-game countering to defuse the older man. And Cotto will need to ensure he comes in at angles to avoid the younger man's aggression.


that's not what I got from your original post. It seemed to me that you were just trying to downplay Canelo and name reasons why he's being overrated.


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> that's not what I got from your original post. It seemed to me that you were just trying to downplay Canelo and name reasons why he's being overrated.


I like Canelo. I think some are adding abilities to him that he hasn't shown, but he's a top class fighter. I wouldn't be surprised if he beats Cotto, but I don't think it'll be easy. Cotto can bang, even at 160, especially to the body. Canelo isn't great at dictating the terms of his fights. But he's a big guy, with excellent punch selection and poise in the ring. Miguel is going to have to be surgical in his work.


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah, but I've said that enough lol. Every drill is him standing there letting them rip. We know he can do that, not the challenge.


And of course, it accentuates his hand speed when he knows he'll land and he's at his preferred range, without a moving target.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> I like Canelo. I think some are adding abilities to him that he hasn't shown, but he's a top class fighter. I wouldn't be surprised if he beats Cotto, but I don't think it'll be easy. Cotto can bang, even at 160, especially to the body. Canelo isn't great at dictating the terms of his fights. But he's a big guy, with excellent punch selection and poise in the ring. Miguel is going to have to be surgical in his work.


you're right though in the end. I'm not really trying dispute your other points as I've stated them in the past also :thumbsup


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> And Cotto won rounds off Floyd, sonething Canelo can't say.


Well he can say that. He could even say it was a split decision if he wanted to.

He could also say he never come close to being hurt or knocked out, something Cotto definitely cannot say.

He could also say he fought a much more disicplinned and defensive Mayweather that Miguel did.

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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

TFG said:


> Well he can say that. He could even say it was a split decision if he wanted to.
> 
> He could also say he never come close to being hurt or knocked out, something Cotto definitely cannot say.
> 
> ...


thats such bullshit we all know Cotto performed better against Floyd, this is @Doc level fan boy shit.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> thats such bullshit we all know Cotto performed better against Floyd, this is @*Doc* level fan boy shit.


He probably did perform better, but he fought a much less defensive Mayweather than Canelo did, that's simply a fact.

If Mayweather had fought Cotto the way he did Canelo ie back doesn't touch the ropes for more than a second (as opposed to sitting on the ropes inviting exchanges) then the fight would have been different.

Either way, Canelo got outboxed by a much better boxer, who cares. Cotto got outboxed as well. Unfortunately for Cotto, he also got rocked to the core by Mayweather who is a complete non puncher at 154lbs. That's important when we are talking about Cotto facing a 175lb puncher. Mayweather outboxing Canelo doesn't really mean anything, Cotto can't replicate any of that. Canelo most definitely can replicate the left uppercut that hurt Cotto, it's one of his best punches.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> thats such bullshit we all know Cotto performed better against Floyd, this is @Doc level fan boy shit.


I don't know why the spin is necessary. Floyd played with Canelo. That's worse than pressing him and winning rounds and taking some hard shots in return. Cotto did what everyone wished Canelo would do. And as much as Sr. improved Floyd's movement, he wasn't backpedaling against Canelo. He stood in front of him and outboxed him with a high volume of jabs and shots off of those jabs.

Cotto lost to Trout, point to that and cut your losses instead of trying to save face for every little mark on Canelo's career.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I don't know why the spin is necessary. Floyd played with Canelo. That's worse than pressing him and winning rounds and taking some hard shots in return. Cotto did what everyone wished Canelo would do.* And as much as Sr. improved Floyd's movement, he wasn't backpedaling against Canelo*. He stood in front of him and outboxed him with a high volume of jabs and shots off of those jabs.
> 
> Cotto lost to Trout, point to that and cut your losses instead of trying to save face for every little mark on Canelo's career.


That's simply a lie though isn't it?

Every time Canelo stepped forward with a shot, Mayweather took two steps back, which is why we saw Canelo falling short a lot. Whenever his back hit the ropes, he moved laterally out of the way. I know you're going to give a speech about the one time Mayweather backed Canelo up but honestly don't waste your time, it's not relevant to the point.

How can you deny that they fought differently? I can literally show you footage of Mayweather sitting on the ropes and inviting Cotto in to play. That didn't happen in the Canelo fight did it?

You're trying to debate something that is shown quite clearly on footage and confirmed by Mayweather himself.

You've got it in your head that I'm trying to spin this into praise for Canelo. I'm not. I'm stating a clear fact that needs to be mentioned. Mayweather fought a more defensive fight against Canelo, if you disagree with that then feel free to prove me wrong, but the evidence is against you.

Cotto did do what I hope Canelo would do, but the small difference is that Mayweather allowed Cotto to do a lot of what he did. By sitting on the ropes and not moving, you are allowing him to be aggressive and throw combos. When Mayweather refuses to sit on the ropes against Canelo, he's refusing to let him do what he wants. It really is that simple, it's all there on video.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> That's simply a lie though isn't it?


No. Floyd stood in front of Canelo more than most of his opponents.


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## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

Cool episode. Really like them both, just think Martinez was Cotto's last big hoorah. 

Pretty sure Canelo will have enough in the tank to get past Miguel.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

TFG said:


> That's simply a lie though isn't it?
> 
> Every time Canelo stepped forward with a shot, Mayweather took two steps back, which is why we saw Canelo falling short a lot. Whenever his back hit the ropes, he moved laterally out of the way. I know you're going to give a speech about the one time Mayweather backed Canelo up but honestly don't waste your time, it's not relevant to the point.
> 
> ...


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

americanelo! what a coincidence that his moms from guadalajara too :lol:


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

http://www.boxingscene.com/roach-wants-cotto-stay-away-from-ropes-all-night--98011

So Cottos plan is to survive into the later rounds and break canelo down, margarito style, yeah lol ok at a previous comment Roach made... also they plan not to chill on ropes at all with this new comment, cotto going to be tired as fuck trying to employ the slickster style. All these gameplans they keep posting about just solidifies my pick, Canelo TKO Mid to Late.

Their best chance was to go at canelo hard and catch him early, but them saying that they plan to survive early and break him down late sounds retarded as cotto sucks in the later rounds... now them saying not to chill on ropes means cotto has to have some good movement and will get tired...

Can;t wait


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> No. Floyd stood in front of Canelo more than most of his opponents.


Wrong again.

He stood on the tip of his range and back peddled whenever Canelo threw.

Mayweather backed Canelo up very carefully at a few points in the fight, but this was only when Canelo wasn't throwing. As soon as Canelo threw back he would retreat.

Listen to the man himself and stop thinking you know more than him and his team. Gameplans are important.

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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


>


You can show me one gif of Mayweather backing Canelo up, and the funniest thing is that moments after that sequence Canelo hits Mayweather and sends him backpeddling again.

I can show you about 15 gifs of Mayweather laying on the ropes exchanging with Cotto.

I can show you plenty of gifs that show Mayweather backing Cotto up and beating him up.

So yeah, enjoy your single gif. Bogo has been assessing the entire fight in that one sequence.

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

This whole "Floyd goes to the ropes willingly" thing is outdated. We saw what happened against Maidana. Just like has happened numerous times against various pressure fighters. Floyd's default is to retreat in linear fashion. If he's doing so, it's because he's being made to. Only in his two rematches have we seen Floyd truly do the minimal effort and clinch and escape with a skittish decision win.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> This whole "Floyd goes to the ropes willingly" thing is outdated. We saw what happened against Maidana. Just like has happened numerous times against various pressure fighters. Floyd's default is to retreat in linear fashion. If he's doing so, it's because he's being made to. Only in his two rematches have we seen Floyd truly do the minimal effort and clinch and escape with a skittish decision win.


It's not outdated, its a fact. Floyd choose to fight off the ropes in that fight. He prepared his whole camp around that idea. Why was he throwing hooks and uppercuts off the ropes instead of clinching or moving? Go watch the 12th Round for an idea of how he could have fought. Mayweather fought completely differently against Canelo. The fact you can't admit that is pathetic.

You prove my point with the Maidana example. What did Floyd say after the first fight? He said don't expect the second fight to look the same. Guess what? It didn't. Floyd choose to move more and not hang around on the ropes.

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> It's not outdated, its a fact. Floyd choose to fight off the ropes in that fight. He prepared his whole camp around that idea. Why was he throwing hooks and uppercuts off the ropes instead of clinching or moving? Go watch the 12th Round for an idea of how he could have fought. Mayweather fought completely differently against Canelo. The fact you can't admit that is pathetic.
> 
> You prove my point with the Maidana example. What did Floyd say after the first fight? He said don't expect the second fight to look the same. Guess what? It didn't. Floyd choose to move more and not hang around on the ropes.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


Of course he fought differently against Canelo. But the elements that could have made the fight look very similar wasn't pressing because of Canelo's lack of effective aggression. What's truly pathetic is all the excuse-making and spin being given to that fight to make Canelo's effort look more worthwhile and admirable than Cotto's. It wasn't. End of story. Move on. I'm tired of reading this fanboyish shit.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Of course he fought differently against Canelo. But the elements that could have made the fight look very similar wasn't pressing because of Canelo's lack of effective aggression. What's truly pathetic is all the excuse-making and spin being given to that fight to make Canelo's effort look more worthwhile and admirable than Cotto's. It wasn't. End of story. Move on. I'm tired of reading this fanboyish shit.


You're the only one making this into some fanboy shit because you know you can't win the debate. The facts are against you.

You refuse to believe that Mayweather wanted to be on the ropes against Cotto because it doesn't fit your agenda. He trained his whole fucking camp on the ropes with sparring partners who fight like Cotto ffs. The fight was a carbon copy of his sparring.

Mayweather had plenty of chances to escape from the ropes and choose not to.

He had plenty of chances to clinch, he choose to punch instead.

Cotto doesn't have the same success against the Canelo Mayweather fought, that should be obvious.

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

It's fanboyish to desperately try to justify and explain away Canelo's substantially inferior performance. I'm tired of reading it and discussing it, so I won't do so any longer.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> It's fanboyish to desperately try to justify and explain away Canelo's substantially inferior performance. I'm tired of reading it and discussing it, so I won't do so any longer.


Nice response.

I particularly like the way you addressed all the important points that prove you completely wrong...

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## Twelvey (Jun 6, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> It's fanboyish to desperately try to justify and explain away Canelo's substantially inferior performance. I'm tired of reading it and discussing it, so I won't do so any longer.


I find it ridiculous because Floyd dropped more rounds against Cotto, I can't see Floyd ever intentionally dropping more rounds. Neither of them fights like Floyd anyway and have both improved since that fight so it's of limited use as reference other than to establish Cotto is better on the front foot and Floyd didn't want to trade with a young, explosive and big 154 pounder.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

TFG said:


> You can show me one gif of Mayweather backing Canelo up, and the funniest thing is that moments after that sequence Canelo hits Mayweather and sends him backpeddling again.
> 
> I can show you about 15 gifs of Mayweather laying on the ropes exchanging with Cotto.
> 
> ...


how do you not understand this?

Canelo is bigger than Cotto, a lot more physical, its no surprise that Floyd fought a defensive fight vs Canelo. He took advantage of Canelo's cement feet, his lack of ability in cutting off the ring, and Canelo's terrible ability to punch on the move. Cotto on the other hand was quicker on the trigger, was quicker on his feet and was just better on the move than Canelo was. Floyd, imo, made a concious decision to brawl, but I also think that Cotto forced a lot of it onto him.

on the other hand canelo wasn't able to pressure floyd successfully. didn't have the stamina nor the gameplan to get it done.

bottom line, Cotto did better than Canelo, took more shots in the process but thats also because he took more RISKS than Canelo did.. tentative performance from nelo


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Twelvey said:


> I find it ridiculous because Floyd dropped more rounds against Cotto, I can't see Floyd ever intentionally dropping more rounds. Neither of them fights like Floyd anyway and have both improved since that fight so it's of limited use as reference other than to establish Cotto is better on the front foot and *Floyd didn't want to trade with a young, explosive and big 154 pounder.*


My whole point from the beginning. Floyd didn't feel comfortable trading with Canelo so he choose not to.

He wasn't particularly comfortable exchanging with Cotto shot to shot, but he knew he could beat him on the inside, so he stuck to his plan and fought a lot of the fight there.



tommygun711 said:


> how do you not understand this?
> 
> Canelo is bigger than Cotto, a lot more physical, its no surprise that Floyd fought a defensive fight vs Canelo. He took advantage of Canelo's cement feet, his lack of ability in cutting off the ring, and Canelo's terrible ability to punch on the move. Cotto on the other hand was quicker on the trigger, was quicker on his feet and was just better on the move than Canelo was. Floyd, imo, made a concious decision to brawl, but I also think that Cotto forced a lot of it onto him.
> 
> ...


I think you are really confused, let me show you why.

You admit in your very first line that Floyd fought a more defensive fight against a more physical Canelo, yeah? You then tell us Floyd made a conscious decision to BRAWL (MY ENTIRE FUCKING POINT atsch)

But somehow that has no reflection on Cotto doing better than Canelo? Get the fuck out of here. You're telling us Mayweather choose to brawl with Cotto but then refuse to believe that had helped Cotto perform better than Canelo? Think about what you are saying. You've just said Mayweather choose to fight Cotto's fight, which OBVIOUSLY increase Cotto's chances of performing well. You admit that Floyd fought a style that is horrible for Canelo, but refuse to believe that had a factor on him not performing as well as Cotto? Makes no sense at all. You fight someone with a style that suits them, it increases their chances of doing well. Fight someone with a style that they hate and it decreases their chances. If Floyd had not made the decision to brawl with Cotto, he would have won wider, correct?

Canelo pressured Floyd at plenty of points during the fight, the reason he stopped was because Floyd was moving out of the way and fighting very smart defensively. If Mayweather had hung around the ropes more and wanted to fight on the inside like he did with Cotto, Canelo would have done better? You can't possibly disagree with this given your previous post.

Floyd himself said he felt Canelo's power and wanted none of it, that's why he was more defensive. He clearly showed more respect for Canelo's youth, size and power.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Floyd gives his narcissist view on the fight 
http://www.fighthype.com/mayweather...o.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

"So, you know, the so-called biggest fighters that they got left in the sport, just know that, I'm just saying when Cotto and Canelo fight, just know that they both faced me and you know what I did," stated retired undefeated former pound-for-pound king Floyd Mayweather, who shared his thoughts on the November 21 showdown between WBC middleweight champion Miguel Cotto and former jr. middleweight champion Canelo Alvarez. Having fought and beaten both fighters, Mayweather has firsthand knowledge of what both fighters will bring to the table when they step into the ring to face each other. Though he stopped short of giving a prediction, his comments suggest that he might be slightly leaning towards Canelo to pull of the victory.

"When I faced Canelo, it was more of a chess match. People try to say the Canelo fight was easier. It was just that it was a chess match and I was Bobby Fischer, the better chess player. As far as the Cotto fight, Cotto took more punishment than Canelo took from me, a lot more punishment, and taking punishment like that is wear and tear on the body," Mayweather explained during a recent conversation with FightHype.com. "That's why when Cotto came right back to fight, he lost to Austin Trout. I thought it was close enough to go either way. Actually, I thought it was a draw, to be honest. People didn't expect me to sit right there and bang with Cotto. A lot of people, they say, 'All Mayweather do is run.' Well, I do run; I run right to the bank and cash my check."


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## BoxingGenius27 (Jun 8, 2013)

I thought Cotto won the Trout fight


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> It's fanboyish to desperately try to justify and explain away Canelo's substantially inferior performance. I'm tired of reading it and discussing it, so I won't do so any longer.


 @TFG

This is good stuff, you unloading on Bozotazo the same way Margo did to cotto and got the same outcome...

NO MAS

Rather exit the fight then continue cause he knows he getting his ass whoop

Lmao










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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Floyd gives his narcissist view on the fight
> http://www.fighthype.com/mayweather...o.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
> 
> "So, you know, the so-called biggest fighters that they got left in the sport, just know that, I'm just saying when Cotto and Canelo fight, just know that they both faced me and you know what I did," stated retired undefeated former pound-for-pound king Floyd Mayweather, who shared his thoughts on the November 21 showdown between WBC middleweight champion Miguel Cotto and former jr. middleweight champion Canelo Alvarez. Having fought and beaten both fighters, Mayweather has firsthand knowledge of what both fighters will bring to the table when they step into the ring to face each other. Though he stopped short of giving a prediction, his comments suggest that he might be slightly leaning towards Canelo to pull of the victory.
> ...


Boss response... Mayweather chose to fight in a style that would suit cotto more and cotto still got his ass whooped and nearly ktfo in his own game ... that fight was actually a really good fight because mayweather chose to fight offensively and nearly ktfo cotto in round 12..

With canelo he had the perfect game plan sort of like maidana 2... run away from exchanges and pot shot the hell out him.. I ain't giving this kid no room to get me.

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Twelvey said:


> I find it ridiculous because Floyd dropped more rounds against Cotto, I can't see Floyd ever intentionally dropping more rounds. Neither of them fights like Floyd anyway and have both improved since that fight so it's of limited use as reference other than to establish Cotto is better on the front foot and Floyd didn't want to trade with a young, explosive and big 154 pounder.


:deal


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## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Bogotazo said:


> I don't hate Canelo, I just think that statement is ridiculous. And Canelo's fans are out of control, if he wins they'll be insufferable. The new flomos.


Don't be ridiculous Bogo. FLomos are legendary when it comes to retardism :SOK


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## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Doc said:


> He walked him down in one instance wtf are you talking about and that was when canelo was taking a break on ropes. .. you won't find many other instances. ... why is the fight being summarized in that sense by only one instance you are seriously reaching. Mayweather was being defensive the majority of the fight and didn't want to exchange the same way as with cotto who was happy to trade and actually walk down and try to knock him out and he got very close to.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


I wouldn't even consider that "waking someone down". Canelo was stepping back slowly while May was stepping forward at the same pace. Canelo was just thinking about countering. May was moving forward but at a distance, while still being defensive.


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## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

TFG said:


> He probably did perform better, but he fought a much less defensive Mayweather than Canelo did, that's simply a fact.
> 
> If Mayweather had fought Cotto the way he did Canelo ie back doesn't touch the ropes for more than a second (as opposed to sitting on the ropes inviting exchanges) then the fight would have been different.
> 
> Either way, Canelo got outboxed by a much better boxer, who cares. Cotto got outboxed as well. Unfortunately for Cotto, he also got rocked to the core by Mayweather who is a complete non puncher at 154lbs. That's important when we are talking about Cotto facing a 175lb puncher. Mayweather outboxing Canelo doesn't really mean anything, Cotto can't replicate any of that. Canelo most definitely can replicate the left uppercut that hurt Cotto, it's one of his best punches.


Canelo vs May and Cotto vs May is a pointless comparison in many ways. Cotto did perform better than Canelo and May was more cautious vs Canelo but at the end of the day, it really came down to the lack of experience Canelo had. Up to that point, Canelo had only fought Trout in terms of "quality" level opponent. Cotto on the other had was a seasoned vet. This Canelo at age 25 is not the same guy who fought May barely turning 23. Canelo not performing as good as Cotto doesn't really tell us much, when you consider the time.


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## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Bogotazo said:


> This whole "Floyd goes to the ropes willingly" thing is outdated. We saw what happened against Maidana. Just like has happened numerous times against various pressure fighters. Floyd's default is to retreat in linear fashion. If he's doing so, it's because he's being made to. Only in his two rematches have we seen Floyd truly do the minimal effort and clinch and escape with a skittish decision win.


Of course.

May does like to lay on the ropes at times though. Especially when he feels he's in control and in no danger. He catches oxygen and then proceeds to counter but knowing he's in control.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> I wouldn't even consider that "waking someone down". Canelo was stepping back slowly while May was stepping forward at the same pace. Canelo was just thinking about countering. May was moving forward but at a distance, while still being defensive.


You're right but I was trying to be reasonable and give Bozotazo something at least, since most of his points are retarded... the main argument he had aome pages back was that may walked canelo down the whole fight. .. so I said only in one instance can you kind of make that assumptiom... but whole fight? I mean how stupid can someone be... haters man.

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Cotto will have to box and move as well as he did in the Mosley fight to win this fight. However, this Canelo is better than that Mosley...and that Cotto was better than this Cotto.

Thoughts?


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Who deleted posts from here

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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Cotto will have to box and move as well as he did in the Mosley fight to win this fight. However, this Canelo is better than that Mosley...and that Cotto was better than this Cotto.
> 
> Thoughts?


Mosley beat cotto tho... and yes at this point canelo is better then mosely was in that instance

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Cotto will have to box and move as well as he did in the Mosley fight to win this fight. However, this Canelo is better than that Mosley...and that Cotto was better than this Cotto.
> 
> Thoughts?


That Cotto's version of "boxing" was very limited. Cotto back then had 2 modes: plod forward with his head down behind a jab and attack the body, or bounce around and occasionally pause to jab or counter before running the clock some more. Cotto no longer disconnects the two; his defensive and offensive movement have fused. He's either in range to hit you, at a side angle, or out of range. In and out. Before it was either just forward, or backward.

Whether that works better for him remains to be seen. I think it's an advantage.

I'm also not sure this Canelo is better than that Mosley. He might have different advantages that benefit him more in this particular fight, but all around, that Mosley was more skilled, was faster, had similar power, and an iron chin.


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Doc said:


> Mosley beat cotto tho... and yes at this point canelo is better then mosely was in that instance
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Now I know you're trolling.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> That Cotto's version of "boxing" was very limited. Cotto back then had 2 modes: plod forward with his head down behind a jab and attack the body, or bounce around and occasionally pause to jab or counter before running the clock some more. Cotto no longer disconnects the two; his defensive and offensive movement have fused. He's either in range to hit you, at a side angle, or out of range. In and out. Before it was either just forward, or backward.
> 
> Whether that works better for him remains to be seen. I think it's an advantage.
> 
> I'm also not sure this Canelo is better than that Mosley. He might have different advantages that benefit him more in this particular fight, but all around, that Mosley was more skilled, was faster, had similar power, and an iron chin.


Still the same cotto... smoke and mirrors since the Margo, Pacquiao and mayweather beatings

Canelo is better then that version of mosely no doubt over all.. you can say some good things of mosely over nelo like iron chin.. but mosely wasn't prime anymore.. cotto got beat by an old mosely.. Bob father secured the win for him...

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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> Now I know you're trolling.


Rewatch it, it was a close fight. . Wtf you think I'm just talking shit.










Two judges has cotto by one round.. so don't start with trolling remarks..










I took moselys work rate and power punches instead of cottos boxing and jabs..

If you want to counter go ahead but don't jump straight to trolling.. your not talking to some bum son

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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> Now I know you're trolling.


http://www.boxinginsider.com/headlines/shane-mosely-i-would-love-to-rematch-cotto/

No doubt that turned out to be a disappointment for the legendary fighter, but it appears that it's lineal middleweight champ Miguel Cotto who is most on Mosley's mind these days.

"I would love to rematch Cotto, though," he claimed, "since I, like many others - and CompuBox stats - think I beat him. Lol."

There's no doubt about it, the Mosley-Cotto match back in 2007 was a close one. While it's true Cotto walked away with a unanimous decision win, it was a thin one - and in Cotto's adopted home of Madison Square Garden, as well.

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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

@Doc - it was a close fight, 100% true, but trying to make out Shane won it is pure trolling. Shane was my guy then and it was that fight that proved to me they Cotto was the real thing. CompuBox is rarely my go to reference, since it's quantitative instead of qualitative.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> @Doc - it was a close fight, 100% true, but trying to make out Shane won it is pure trolling. Shane was my guy then and it was that fight that proved to me they Cotto was the real thing. CompuBox is rarely my go to reference, since it's quantitative instead of qualitative.


CompuBox is a helpful tool not a deciding factor. .. of course.

Close fight I had mosely.. watched it and scored it while I followed cotto back then but I had still had mosely who I followed less.

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> Still the same cotto... smoke and mirrors since the Margo, Pacquiao and mayweather beatings
> 
> Canelo is better then that version of mosely no doubt over all.. you can say some good things of mosely over nelo like iron chin.. but mosely wasn't prime anymore.. cotto got beat by an old mosely.. Bob father secured the win for him...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Nah.


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## til20 (Oct 2, 2013)

Roach giving Canelo more respect than a lot of his fighter's opponents, but still ultimately calling for the KO. 

His predictions can be hit or miss, but I feel like he's usually more right than wrong. He predicted Cotto would easily handle Martinez and was exactly right, for instance.

I hope he's right since I'm a big Cotto fan, but my head tells me Canelo will take it.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

*Canelo Finishes Up Camp With 172-Rounds of Sparring 
*
http://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-finishes-up-camp-with-172-rounds-sparring--98121

The last day of sparring was finished up in San Diego, California. Mexican superstar Saul "Canelo" Alvarez is ready for the anticipated fight against Miguel Cotto on November 21 at the Mandalay Bay Events Center Las Vegas. A total of 172 rounds were completed in a training camp, according to manager/co-trainer Jose "Chepo" Reynoso.

Alvarez will travel on Monday from San Diego to Las Vegas for the start of fight week. On Tuesday, he and Cotto will make the official grand arrivals at the Mandalay Bay. On Wednesday the final press conference will be held, with Friday's weigh-in as the last pre-fight activity.

The only thing left to do is stay on weight. The fight takes place at a catch-weight of 155-pounds and Cotto's WBC middleweight champion will be at stake.

"Today is the last day of a great camp. It was very interesting, great atmosphere, intense because the fight will be intense because of the commitment that is required. It was a very nice camp and the sparring sessions are now complete. The following week, we only need to tweak a few minor details and watch the weight," Reynoso told ESPN Deportes.

"We are prepared for whatever happens. Saul is fine, physically and mentally. We are going to arrive with a good physical preparation and winning mentality. We did things well, we worked with responsibility and enthusiasm, very quiet. We are ending the week very happy. I welcome and appreciate the availability Saul always [in camp and he] never complained about doing anything."


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

How are you guys gonna watch it? Buy the ppv, go to a bar/someones house or by "other means"


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

nuclear said:


> How are you guys gonna watch it? Buy the ppv, go to a bar/someones house or by "other means"


Dont know yet but this is the best card of 2015 no doubt


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## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Bogotazo said:


> Nah.


No te aguites Bogo! Canelo is cool. Remember that he grew up watching Cotto..:hey.

It's just the passing of the torch!


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## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

Roach with his mind games...


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Dont know yet but this is the best card of 2015 no doubt


:haye


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

nuclear said:


> How are you guys gonna watch it? Buy the ppv, go to a bar/someones house or by "other means"


at home, the atmosphere will be incredible....hopefully they bring drums in because that really ramps up the fight. My Volume will be all the way up


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


>


no **** but Canelo's quads and ass look good here

He has a good trunk and I doubt Cotto will hurt him much, however Cotto will outbox this young man


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

That might be the worst face off so far.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> That might be the worst face off so far.


I had a feeling it'd be bad. I watched the first minute last night and just decided to go to sleep instead


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Canelo cotto are boring.. idk what you all expected. Same robotic responses every time... Kellerman could have at least brought in some drama about the catchweight, all the demands etc.. 

At least they make up for it with good exciting styles.

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> No te aguites Bogo! Canelo is cool. Remember that he grew up watching Cotto..:hey.
> 
> It's just the passing of the torch!


Yeah as much as I want Cotto to win, Canelo winning would really be a proper passing of the torch.


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

Canelo should have brought Margarito in that bitch and sat him next to him. LOL
Shit would have been epic.

Kneeguel gonna bow out.


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> Canelo should have brought Margarito in that bitch and sat him next to him. LOL
> Shit would have been epic.
> 
> Kneeguel gonna bow out.


You're an idiot.


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

dftaylor said:


> You're an idiot.


LOL


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## Vaitor (Apr 22, 2015)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> *Canelo should have brought Margarito in that bitch and sat him next to him. LOL
> Shit would have been epic.*
> 
> Kneeguel gonna bow out.


:rofl


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

FloydPatterson said:


> no **** but Canelo's quads and ass look good here
> 
> He has a good trunk and I doubt Cotto will hurt him much, however Cotto will outbox this young man


Crazy to me how some people rate Cotto. He's not Lara. He's not Mayweather. He couldn't keep Margarito off of him and he couldn't get to Lara. Yet he's somehow supposed, years later against very limited opposition, supposed to dominant a hungry young fighter who literally takes on all challenges.

Yeah, sorry, you are grossly overestimating the previous cohort of fighters (Floyd, Manny, Cotto). This is another chapter of the "yeah, but they couldn't have hung with champions of the past". Canelo is going to be tested and Cotto will be crafty, but I expect Canelo to thud Cotto at some point and it won't just be once.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Yeah the only real exciting part was Roach trying to get under their skin a bit. Both fighters are too respectful.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah the only real exciting part was Roach trying to get under their skin a bit. Both fighters are too respectful.


No he wasn't, roach is roach. .. his last name suits him.

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> No he wasn't, roach is roach. .. his last name suits him.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


What?


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## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

Bogotazo said:


> What?


El dice que Roach es un cucaracha!


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## Vaitor (Apr 22, 2015)

ElKiller said:


> El dice que Roach es un cucaracha!


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## BoxingGenius27 (Jun 8, 2013)

Max Kellerman is horrible in face-off's. He needs to be replaced ASAP


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

BoxingGenius27 said:


> Max Kellerman is horrible in face-off's. He needs to be replaced ASAP


What is he even good at?


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

i thought the face off was pretty funny. 

"who do you think has better technique?"

"well look at his face"


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## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

nuclear said:


> i thought the face off was pretty funny.
> 
> "who do you think has better technique?"
> 
> "well look at his face"


Because it's true. Torres, Corley, Judah. They've all put Cotto on queer street. I love Cotto but those are the facts. Canelo ain't getting stopped. Maybe Cotto wins a decision. But that's his only chance. Is a decision.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

ElKiller said:


> El dice que Roach es un cucaracha!


Jeje si, but that doesn't contradict what I was saying.


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## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> What is he even good at?


Love em or hate em, Lampley & Kellerman are professionals and put their sentences together eloquently and clearly. Just take a look at the speech Lampley came up with when describing JMM's win over Pacquiao. One of the great speeches and made up from the spot, they can be dicks but they are good at what they do.


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## BoxingGenius27 (Jun 8, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> What is he even good at?


As of late, not much.

I remember when he first started out, he was much better than Larry Merchant, but it's been going downhill since, IMO.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

genaro g said:


> Because it's true. Torres, Corley, Judah. They've all put Cotto on queer street. I love Cotto but those are the facts. Canelo ain't getting stopped. Maybe Cotto wins a decision. But that's his only chance. Is a decision.


Haha exactly.. that was pretty good actually.. and since cotto understands all he could do is smile nervously as he knows that's true.

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## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

Doc said:


> Haha exactly.. that was pretty good actually.. and since cotto understands all he could do is smile nervously as he knows that's true.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Canelo is very good about not taking big shots. Even tho Floyd completely outboxed, we havnt seen Canelo visibly shaken up since Jose Cotto in his HBO, which wasn't anywhere close to how hurt and rocked Cotto was vs ever single top opponent in Torres, Corley, Judah, Pacquiao and even Mayweather.

Even tho Cotto may have more experience and be the superior technician and ring general, he is the one who is more than likely to be hurt by a single shot. Canelo is very good about avoiding those fight changing punches that Cotto is accustomed to taking.

Both fighters look like they have had an amazing camp but I have to be honest in saying I'm more impressed with Cotto. He is in a very good place right now. He looks extremely dangerous. Canelo will have to show us a little more than what he has if he wants to pull this one off.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

genaro g said:


> Even tho Cotto may have more experience and be the superior technician and ring general, he is the one who is more than likely to be hurt by a single shot. Canelo is very good about avoiding those fight changing punches that Cotto is accustomed to taking.


Lots of people have this opinion and it baffles me. Cotto has lost every major fight he's been in and in the last five years he's been mediocre at best. Roach is also clearly on the downhill with losses w/ Provodnikov and Manny, split with Khan (after losing and getting battered) and having the wrong gameplan with JCC Jr. and then blaming the fighter. Again it wouldn't be a big deal but I could literally find over 1,000 articles where Roach talks about how he's going to dominate Mayweather in some way even though he's lost against Floyd w/ ODLH and Manny (great fighters), but always find an excuse for why the loss happened. Roach can't accept that he's not the guy he talks himself to be. Trainer of the year once or twice, sure, anymore than that is just politics.

Roach is an opportunistic businessman. Cotto beat a Martinez who DIDN'T SPAR ONE SINGLE ROUND DURING CAMP b/c he physically couldn't with the knees. He fought some random journeyman and a C+ MW at a catchweight. Sorry. That doesn't do it for me. Prior to that he was dominated by Floyd and by Trout in different ways.

Canelo's coming into this fight with Kirkland, Lara, Angulo, Trout, and Floyd as his recent opposition. Yeah, I'll take Canelo's recent stretch BIG time over Cotto's. I don't understand how, but so many people buy into Roach and his antics. Roach is a fucking moron. He lives vicariously through his fighters and wishes he had their careers because he was a complete bum as a fighter himself.

And we don't know if Cotto is a superior technician or ring general. Cotto was dictated to against Trout, Floyd, Manny, Margs, etc. Canelo has only be dictated to by the greatest fighter in the last 25 years (or so). There's no shame in losing your first megafight against a standout talent...Canelo just had the way wrong gameplan - it happens, no big deal. Even Tom Brady loses once in a while.

Canelo is going to have to adjust a bit to some of the things Cotto does, but Cotto is not Lara or Floyd. He doesn't move or defend like them. He also can't bang like Kirkland. Cotto has little to offer aside from craftiness and a good jab. Canelo is going to - *again* - surprise/shock a lot of people. By no means I am trying to hype up Canelo here, but you guys are all buying stock in a fraudulent company that is manipulating it's quarterly stats. Cotto is not the horse Roach talks him to be. That'll be evident pretty quickly and Canelo will have his way with the old timer.

Like I said though at least Cotto has the grudge match payout w/ Margs coming up. He'll win that one


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## LayItDown (Jun 17, 2013)

genaro g said:


> Canelo is very good about not taking big shots. Even tho Floyd completely outboxed, we havnt seen Canelo visibly shaken up since Jose Cotto in his HBO, which wasn't anywhere close to how hurt and rocked Cotto was vs ever single top opponent in Torres, Corley, Judah, Pacquiao and even Mayweather.


In his HBO?


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## Chex31 (May 30, 2013)

Floyd_g.o.a.t said:


> Love em or hate em, Lampley & Kellerman are professionals and put their sentences together eloquently and clearly. Just take a look at the speech Lampley came up with when describing JMM's win over Pacquiao. One of the great speeches and made up from the spot, they can be dicks but they are good at what they do.







:deal


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

bjl12 said:


> Lots of people have this opinion and it baffles me. Cotto has lost every major fight he's been in and in the last five years he's been mediocre at best. Roach is also clearly on the downhill with losses w/ Provodnikov and Manny, split with Khan (after losing and getting battered) and having the wrong gameplan with JCC Jr. and then blaming the fighter. Again it wouldn't be a big deal but I could literally find over 1,000 articles where Roach talks about how he's going to dominate Mayweather in some way even though he's lost against Floyd w/ ODLH and Manny (great fighters), but always find an excuse for why the loss happened. Roach can't accept that he's not the guy he talks himself to be. Trainer of the year once or twice, sure, anymore than that is just politics.
> 
> Roach is an opportunistic businessman. Cotto beat a Martinez who DIDN'T SPAR ONE SINGLE ROUND DURING CAMP b/c he physically couldn't with the knees. He fought some random journeyman and a C+ MW at a catchweight. Sorry. That doesn't do it for me. Prior to that he was dominated by Floyd and by Trout in different ways.
> 
> ...


How has Cotto lost every majro fight hes been in when he beat Mosley and upset Martinez it was only n hindsight that people thought it wa obvious because of Martinez' knee but when the fight at anounced Martinez was the much bigger lineal MW champ and Cotto a not so big 154 fighter who was past his best as well.

by your logic Canelo has lost every major fight as well and his biggest win is Lara


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## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

Chex31 said:


> :deal


Incredible!


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

genaro g said:


> Canelo is very good about not taking big shots. Even tho Floyd completely outboxed, we havnt seen Canelo visibly shaken up since Jose Cotto in his HBO, which wasn't anywhere close to how hurt and rocked Cotto was vs ever single top opponent in Torres, Corley, Judah, Pacquiao and even Mayweather.
> 
> Even tho Cotto may have more experience and be the superior technician and ring general, he is the one who is more than likely to be hurt by a single shot. Canelo is very good about avoiding those fight changing punches that Cotto is accustomed to taking.
> 
> Both fighters look like they have had an amazing camp but I have to be honest in saying I'm more impressed with Cotto. He is in a very good place right now. He looks extremely dangerous. Canelo will have to show us a little more than what he has if he wants to pull this one off.


I agree with that. Cotto is far more vulnerable to single shots. But as much as he is vulnerable, we've also see him weather the rocky moments. A lot of that has to do with confidence as much as physical fortitude, and I think he's riding a high right now, so it would have to be a pretty perfect shot or relentless onslaught to stop him IMO.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Chex31 said:


> :deal


(sun)


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

See this is the problem for me, thinking he can survive the fight 'because he is riding high right now'. He's riding high because he's fought three guys who were tailor made for him and none of whom could punch. In fact, he hasn't fought a legit puncher in years. 

Roach really does know how to sucker people in, he's made slight adjustments to Cotto and showcased them against three guys ANY version of Miguel Cotto would have beaten soundly.

We've already seen Cotto riding high when he beat Margarito and fought Mayweather off of the best camp of his life, in the best condition of his life coming off the most rewarding victory of his career. That didn't stop him almost getting put down by a relatively weak punching 150lber. Yet we are meant to believe that because he's with Roach and confident he will suddenly have no problem absorbing shots from a big hitting 175lb fighter ten years younger than him. 

There doesn't need to be anything perfect about the shot Canelo could put Cotto down with. There's a good chance a grazing shot to the temple or any clean uppercut could hurt him.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

TFG said:


> See this is the problem for me, thinking he can survive the fight 'because he is riding high right now'. He's riding high because he's fought three guys who were tailor made for him and none of whom could punch. In fact, he hasn't fought a legit puncher in years.
> 
> Roach really does know how to sucker people in, he's made slight adjustments to Cotto and showcased them against three guys ANY version of Miguel Cotto would have beaten soundly.
> 
> ...


Canelo is fucked he'll need a lucky punch to destroy this middle weight monster... may God be with him.

#pray4canelo

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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> How has Cotto lost every majro fight hes been in when he beat Mosley and upset Martinez it was only n hindsight that people thought it wa obvious because of Martinez' knee but when the fight at anounced Martinez was the much bigger lineal MW champ and Cotto a not so big 154 fighter who was past his best as well.
> 
> by your logic Canelo has lost every major fight as well and his biggest win is Lara


The Martinez fight was not a major fight. Nobody considered it that. Sergio Martinez hadn't fought in over 1 year and was 39 or 40 years old. He wasn't even able to SPAR during TRAINING CAMP because his legs were so bad. If you don't understand how that works you need to check back into ESB. I can't give anyone full credit over literally beating damaged goods. So that is not a big win in my mind and I don't how it could be in anyone's head.

Yes everyone expected Martinez to smash Cotto, but everyone also expected a Martinez who could fight. Having ACL surgeries on both knees at that age and being UNABLE to spar is telling enough of his physical condition. Again had it been GGG or Floyd to do it, I would've disregarded the win no matter what anyone whines.

The Mosley fight has also already been discussed because it was basically 50/50. There's no clear winner in that fight. Also, Mosley was already on the decline at that point. I think a prime Mosley beats Cotto, but it's still close because styles make fights.

My logic is based off fighters being able to fight. Kirkland was a live dog and although he got smoked everyone knew he had a puncher's chance because...he's extremely limited and that's how he fights. He also chose to fight w/o his old abusive trainer which was probably a good thing considering she assaults her fighters. Lara is still a force at 154. Trout is still a solid 154 pounder. Canelo essentially retired Angulo. Canelo also gained valuable experience in beating Mosley.

It's really not rocket science. The only way Cotto wins this fight is movement because that's Canelo's biggest and clearest flaw. The issue is that Cotto has never been a good mover - never. Cotto also likes to trade punches and use his movement to get the better punch which works great when you're the bigger guy (such was the case for entire 147 career and some of 154), however, Canelo will definitely be bigger and stronger come fight night.

Don't forget it's 35 year old Cotto coming into the fight looking like he got his ass whooped during sparring, not as-yet-to-prime Canelo.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I agree with that. Cotto is far more vulnerable to single shots. But as much as he is vulnerable, we've also see him weather the rocky moments. A lot of that has to do with confidence as much as physical fortitude, and I think he's riding a high right now, so it would have to be a pretty perfect shot or relentless onslaught to stop him IMO.


That's no "high" he's riding. It's a giant lie that Roach sold him because Roach is, at the end of the day, a selfish bastard trying to compensate for his shitty pro career and his health stuff. Roach talks every one of his fighters up and just insults other fighters making it seem like it's a mismatch and his guy is clearly the better man. Great matchmaker Roach is, would've been an EXCELLENT promoter and is a pretty good trainer too. He's selling yet another lie here though. And the shame of it is that the fighters are the ones who pay for his lies, not him.


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

bjl12 said:


> The Martinez fight was not a major fight. Nobody considered it that. Sergio Martinez hadn't fought in over 1 year and was 39 or 40 years old. He wasn't even able to SPAR during TRAINING CAMP because his legs were so bad. If you don't understand how that works you need to check back into ESB. I can't give anyone full credit over literally beating damaged goods. So that is not a big win in my mind and I don't how it could be in anyone's head.
> 
> Yes everyone expected Martinez to smash Cotto, but everyone also expected a Martinez who could fight. Having ACL surgeries on both knees at that age and being UNABLE to spar is telling enough of his physical condition. Again had it been GGG or Floyd to do it, I would've disregarded the win no matter what anyone whines.
> 
> ...


Please tell me where you have the information from that he didn't spar for that fight?
Martinez looked in better shape in that fight than he did in the Murray fightso yeah while he was past it so he seemingly at least could train and his knee went after the left hook from Cotto stunned him.

If the Mosley fight was 50/50 then what was Canelo vs lara?

Kirkland sounds punchy, had gym wars in every sparring seassion, a ton of brutal fights, a style and a lack of punch resistance that made a fight with Canelo impossible to win to begin with and the last time he fought without Ann Wolfe he got ko'd in the first round by fucking Ishida. How was he a live dog literally everything was against him.

I dont claim that i expect Cotto to win but you are biased as fuck


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

sergio martinez was a -250 favorite over small cotto

nobody knew that sergios knees were that bad because there was very little line movement in the fight

miguel is going to get beat down saturday night


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Floyd_g.o.a.t said:


> Love em or hate em, Lampley & Kellerman are professionals and put their sentences together eloquently and clearly. Just take a look at the speech Lampley came up with when describing JMM's win over Pacquiao. One of the great speeches and made up from the spot, they can be dicks but they are good at what they do.


No it wasn't. Hahahaha. That was written while Max was interviewing JMM and Pac, and was being piped in over the autocue.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

quincy k said:


> sergio martinez was a -250 favorite over small cotto
> 
> nobody knew that sergios knees were that bad because there was very little line movement in the fight
> 
> miguel is going to get beat down saturday night


Had people KNOWN Sergio couldn't even spar for his training camp...that line would've been different. Plus the Sergio camp didn't want that getting out prefight since they knew Sergio had only a couple fights left anyway


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> That's no "high" he's riding. It's a giant lie that Roach sold him because Roach is, at the end of the day, a selfish bastard trying to compensate for his shitty pro career and his health stuff. Roach talks every one of his fighters up and just insults other fighters making it seem like it's a mismatch and his guy is clearly the better man. Great matchmaker Roach is, would've been an EXCELLENT promoter and is a pretty good trainer too. He's selling yet another lie here though. And the shame of it is that the fighters are the ones who pay for his lies, not him.


Yeah, no. It's clear Cotto is confident in his movements and is in a far better place mentally and technically than he was under Santiago or any arguably any other trainer.


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## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

dftaylor said:


> No it wasn't. Hahahaha. That was written while Max was interviewing JMM and Pac, and was being piped in over the autocue.


I don't believe :bart


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah, no. It's clear Cotto is confident in his movements and is in a far better place mentally and technically than he was under Santiago or any arguably any other trainer.


Same was said under Diaz before the Mayweather fight.

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> Same was said under Diaz before the Mayweather fight.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


And he put on a better performance than people expected.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> And he put on a better performance than people expected.


Got beaten clearly and then beaten again by Austin Trout in the very next fight.

'riding high' with Roach confidence doesn't change your punch resistance, no matter how much you want it to, so saying that you think Canelo needs to land the 'perfect' shot to get him out of there is flat out retarded. If you're going to make such statements, back them up with analysis of Cotto's chin, not how happy he looks doing the mitts with Freddie.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> Got beaten clearly and then beaten again by Austin Trout in the very next fight.
> 
> 'riding high' with Roach confidence doesn't change your punch resistance, no matter how much you want it to, so saying that you think Canelo needs to land the 'perfect' shot to get him out of there is flat out retarded. If you're going to make such statements, back them up with analysis of Cotto's chin, not how happy he looks doing the mitts with Freddie.


Have you ever boxed? Mentality has a lot to do with how you hold up when you get hurt. Whether you go in panic mode or stay calm and clinch or reset or fight back determines whether you get hit again, and whether you get stopped. So yes, confidence has a lot to do with getting stopped. When Cotto backed off after getting dropped against Pacquiao a 2nd time, what chance he had left flew out the window. When he was undefeated and fought back against Torres despite getting hurt and dropped multiple times, his confident had a lot to do with that. It's not a damn crime to suggest Cotto won't fold should he get hit with a bad shot. I didn't say Canelo needed to land the perfect shot, to stop him he needs to either catch him with a perfect one or follow up with relentless pressure. Which is how most people knock most people out because it isn't easy at the top level.

Canelo fans need to stop bitching every time someone says anything vaguely pro Cotto in here. It's getting embarrassing.


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

bjl12 said:


> Had people KNOWN Sergio couldn't even spar for his training camp...that line would've been different. Plus the Sergio camp didn't want that getting out prefight since they knew Sergio had only a couple fights left anyway


I'll ask you again what's your source that Martinez couldn't spar


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> I'll ask you again what's your source that Martinez couldn't spar


An interview I saw on YT from Jeff Mayweather. Don't care to find it tbh


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Canelo's a hair over 160 right now:

http://www.boxingscene.com/de-la-hoya-catch-weight-huge-advantage-canelo--98222

Cotto at 157.8:

http://www.boxingscene.com/miguel-cotto-tips-1578-pounds-7-day-weigh---98192


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Have you ever boxed? Mentality has a lot to do with how you hold up when you get hurt. Whether you go in panic mode or stay calm and clinch or reset or fight back determines whether you get hit again, and whether you get stopped. So yes, confidence has a lot to do with getting stopped. When Cotto backed off after getting dropped against Pacquiao a 2nd time, what chance he had left flew out the window. When he was undefeated and fought back against Torres despite getting hurt and dropped multiple times, his confident had a lot to do with that. It's not a damn crime to suggest Cotto won't fold should he get hit with a bad shot. I didn't say Canelo needed to land the perfect shot, to stop him he needs to either catch him with a perfect one or follow up with relentless pressure. Which is how most people knock most people out because it isn't easy at the top level.
> 
> Canelo fans need to stop bitching every time someone says anything vaguely pro Cotto in here. It's getting embarrassing.


I'm reading @TFG posts and trying to understand where he is bitching all i see is factual statements being met with no responses because a particular someone rather make it personal then refute any points. Evidence of a defeated man by the way.

It's almost time, Cotto bout to get his ass whipped this saturday.. I noticed you are slightly favoring cotto now so the confidence keeps going down as the time nears.

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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

I wonder how much not having to care about weight adds to Cotto's confidence.

And why does he shave his legs?


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## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

LayItDown said:


> In his HBO?


HBO debut, sorry. Vs Jose Cotto, Miguel Cottos older brother.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

dyna said:


> I wonder how much not having to care about weight adds to Cotto's confidence.
> 
> And why does he shave his legs?


Shaved legs is a confidence booster. Makes him feel better about himself and adds to his confidence which adds to boxing abilities increasing such as punch resistance.

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## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I agree with that. Cotto is far more vulnerable to single shots. But as much as he is vulnerable, we've also see him weather the rocky moments. A lot of that has to do with confidence as much as physical fortitude, and I think he's riding a high right now, so it would have to be a pretty perfect shot or relentless onslaught to stop him IMO.


I think we will see the best Miguel Cotto. I don't think he will doubt himself for a single second. As long as Roach never doubts him. I don't see him getting stopped and I see him surprising us, including Canelo. He is just too motivated to let this kid walk through him. Plus he's not an old man. His legs look strong, his power and speed is there.

Unfortunately, there may be some truth to Canelo being a bit lazy in camp, you can see it in all the breaks that he takes throughout his workouts so that worries me a little.

Overall it's gonna come down to Canelo's ability to out jab Cotto and cutting the ring off, not letting Cotto escape or grab and turn him. Their styles mesh so well with Canelo having the speed edge and Cotto having the timing edge. Cotto is the better mover and Canelo is more planted with explosive combinations. What we're expecting is Canelo to press Cotto and land some explosive hard shots that Cotto will eventually succumb to and look to just box and outpoint Canelo. But If Cotto can land crisp hard head snapping or thudding body shots that we aren't used to seeing Canelo take and be able to command the pace and not let Canelo fight when he wants to, then we might begin to think, oh shit is this really happening?

Canelo's job is to be Canelo. Use his speed, youth and explosiveness and track down Cotto and hurt him, systematically break him down and counter him. That's what he should do. Cotto must win the jab war, lead Canelo into traps, and grab or get out when Canelo wants to fight or unleash a combo. Cotto needs to show his strength and bully the kid, grab him, twist him around and show him, hey..I'm stronger kid. Fight Canelo when he wants to rest and take advantage of his stamina issues. If anybody has been watching them train, you'd have to say this is going to be much closer than anticipated.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

I just saw the 24/7. It wasn't as good as the Martinez/Cotto one.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> I'm reading @TFG posts and trying to understand where he is bitching all i see is factual statements being met with no responses because a particular someone rather make it personal then refute any points. Evidence of a defeated man by the way.
> 
> It's almost time, Cotto bout to get his ass whipped this saturday.. I noticed you are slightly favoring cotto now so the confidence keeps going down as the time nears.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Anytime someone mentions anything positive about Cotto, you or one of your boyfriends is like NAH SAME OLD COTTO HE'S GONNA LOSE STOP BELIEVING THE LIE BLAH BLAH. Really stupid. Cotto has confidence right now. Anyone can see that. Not rocket science. End of story.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Anytime someone mentions anything positive about Cotto, you or one of your boyfriends is like NAH SAME OLD COTTO HE'S GONNA LOSE STOP BELIEVING THE LIE BLAH BLAH. Really stupid. Cotto has confidence right now. Anyone can see that. Not rocket science. End of story.


Lol

Sorry man.. I just don't see it.. to me same old cotto but compromised opponents.. I can see where looking at those fights can be interpreted as new confidence I mean if my guy was being slapped around the ring and got beat up at jr MW by trout then became a middle weight champ later I'd probably be preaching the same shit. But smoke and mirrors my friend. The sooner you accept that, the easier it will be to let go... that boy going to get retired.

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## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

What are Canelo's strengths in this fight? I don't mean what fanboys think they are, but where is he clearly superior to Cotto on Saturday? 

He is the quicker-handed, better combination puncher

He is the younger man. 

What else? Definitively. Don't come with no bullshit...


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## Vaitor (Apr 22, 2015)

allenko1 said:


> What are Canelo's strengths in this fight? I don't mean what fanboys think they are, but where is he clearly superior to Cotto on Saturday?
> 
> He is the quicker-handed, better combination puncher
> 
> ...


Those and countering, slightly more power... Cotto has better body-punching, footwork, ringcraft and overall is a more well rounded boxer... It will be a matter of styles and how the fight develops more than "stats"...


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

genaro g said:


> I think we will see the best Miguel Cotto. I don't think he will doubt himself for a single second. As long as Roach never doubts him. I don't see him getting stopped and I see him surprising us, including Canelo. He is just too motivated to let this kid walk through him. Plus he's not an old man. His legs look strong, his power and speed is there.
> 
> Unfortunately, there may be some truth to Canelo being a bit lazy in camp, you can see it in all the breaks that he takes throughout his workouts so that worries me a little.
> 
> ...


Yeah great points on each man's strengths. That part in bold is interesting because Cotto has done that, and so has Canelo. Cotto picked up Floyd early in their fight when he was against the ropes, and Canelo did to Lara too I think, and often likes to spin opponents around. The in-ring personalities will be an interesting combination.


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

> A video posted by Saul Alvarez (@canelo) on Nov 16, 2015 at 5:13pm PST


One things for sure, Saul is in _shape_


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## Plutus (May 6, 2015)

I didn't give Cotto a chance until this week. Saul looks drained. Cotto by tko


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

"not yet ready for 160" my ass.
He already looks as lean as he can be.

Just hope he comes in over 155 and Cotto doesn't cancel the fight.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> What are Canelo's strengths in this fight? I don't mean what fanboys think they are, but where is he clearly superior to Cotto on Saturday?
> 
> He is the quicker-handed, better combination puncher
> 
> ...


canelo has far better skin and better punch resistance which will be the key in the fight.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Umm.... anyone else think Canelo looks a little sickly skinny, like drained? Damn, his cheeks look gaunt as fuck. He might always look like this the week leading up to the fight, though. :conf

I just keep remembering that he wanted the fight at 156 or 157 lbs. IIRC. Seriously though, he looks like he's more than ready to move up to middleweight now. I think he'll die if he tries to make 154 again.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> Umm.... anyone else think Canelo looks a little sickly skinny, like drained? Damn, his cheeks look gaunt as fuck. He might always look like this the week leading up to the fight, though. :conf
> 
> I just keep remembering that he wanted the fight at 156 or 157 lbs. IIRC. Seriously though, he looks like he's more than ready to move up to middleweight now. I think he'll die if he tries to make 154 again.


No not at all.. he looks better then at 152...

He looks cut up definitely but not unhealthy like 152 vs mayweather..

Imo they should go 160 fully in his next fight against a Rosado or journeyman like that... lemiex would be good too

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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Doc said:


> No not at all.. he looks better then at 152...
> 
> He looks cut up definitely but not unhealthy like 152 vs mayweather..
> 
> ...


Actually, Rosado would be a perfect fight. I'd love to see that one. Yeah, he did look even worse at 152 lbs. He had dry spit caked on his face and had to sit down during the weigh-in. Looked like Denis Leary on crack.


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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

Doc said:


> No not at all.. he looks better then at 152...
> 
> He looks cut up definitely but not unhealthy like 152 vs mayweather..
> 
> ...


Yeah but he probably still has to lose a few pounds. When Canelo says he is too small for middleweight it is just bullshit.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Canelo looks really in shape. Does his torso usually look that built? His face looks a bit drawn though yeah, and he'll only have to drain further.


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## Plutus (May 6, 2015)

It's probably nearing time for him to cash out. He doesn't have the length to do well at 160 and is too drained at 154. Maybe 2 fights with Cotto if they are competitive and then feed him some cans at 160 before having GGG slaughter him.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Canelo looks really in shape. Does his torso usually look that built? His face looks a bit drawn though yeah, and he'll only have to drain further.


I think the only time I saw him that defined was during the weigh-in for the Mayweather fight. I'm actually starting to worry because of what you said. You just reminded me that he still has to drain even further. His cheeks look really gaunt, but honestly, I haven't paid attention to him the week leading up to the fight. I hope he makes weight fine and we get a good fight.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Plutus said:


> It's probably nearing time for him to cash out. He doesn't have the length to do well at 160 and is too drained at 154. Maybe 2 fights with Cotto if they are competitive and then feed him some cans at 160 before having GGG slaughter him.


Canelo is about the same size as ggg going off of pictures when he was a 20 year old kid and they sparred since then he has matured and is still growing into his weight.. his style doesn't call for height and reach of a lee anyways and will always be able to box with the best of them..

Cash out? Dumbest shit I've read you will be seeing canelo as the face of boxing for years to come...



















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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Berliner said:


> Yeah but he probably still has to lose a few pounds. When Canelo says he is too small for middleweight it is just bullshit.


He didn't say he's to small he says he's not ready yet when his body still allows him to make 154.. when it doesn't let him he will go to 160...

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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Canelo looks really in shape. Does his torso usually look that built? His face looks a bit drawn though yeah, and he'll only have to drain further.


He's in tremendous shape but like everyone else I am concerned about the weight he has to lose yet


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Plutus said:


> It's probably nearing time for him to cash out. He doesn't have the length to do well at 160 and is too drained at 154. Maybe 2 fights with Cotto if they are competitive and then feed him some cans at 160 before having GGG slaughter him.


Canelo's prefers fighting backwards and counter-punching. His preferred style of fighting is perfectly suitable for a shorter guy with short reach - it will have no effect.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Las Vegas Arrival pics:

http://www.boxingscene.com/photos-cotto-canelo-make-grand-arrivals-las-vegas--98269


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Ring Magazine article.

"Cotto: Real or Illusion?"

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/404315-cotto-real-or-illusion-from-the-ring-magazine

Casey Stengel is enshrined in the National Baseball Hall of Fame for having managed the New York Yankees to 10 American League pennants and seven World Series championships, including a record five in a row from 1949 to 1953.

Yes, that would be the same Casey Stengel who in 1962 guided the expansion New York Mets to an historically awful 40-120 record in which they finished 60Â½ games behind the pennant-winning San Francisco Giants. If he were still around, it would be reasonable to assume that the â€œOld Perfessorâ€ would say it makes a big difference being able to write Mickey Mantleâ€™s name onto a lineup card instead of Marv Throneberryâ€™s.

It is much the same with boxing trainers. An astute, knowledgeable trainer can help a talented but perhaps underperforming fighter go to the next level, but even Hall of Fame cornermen canâ€™t make pugilistic Throneberrys into Mantles. There has to have been some good material to begin with for any celebrated trainer to work his magic.

There are only two absolute certainties regarding the Nov. 21 title bout at Las Vegasâ€™ Mandalay Bay between 35-year-old Miguel Cotto, THE RING middleweight champion, and 10-years-younger Canelo Alvarez. One is that Cottoâ€™s celebrated trainer, Freddie Roach, the only man ever to win Trainer of the Year from the Boxing Writers Association of America seven times, has worked with more than 20 world champions and is already in the International Boxing Hall of Fame. The other is that Cotto, the only Puerto Rican fighter ever to have won world titles in four weight classes, also will be inducted regardless of the outcome of his showdown with Alvarez.

If the reputations of the respective trainers were the sole determining factor of who wins this much-anticipated matchup, Cotto would probably be the pronounced favorite. The resume of Alvarezâ€™s trainer, Jose â€œChepoâ€ Reynoso, includes Canelo but no one else of note.

It should be noted, however, that Reynoso has been with Alvarez since the red-haired Mexican turned pro at the improbably tender age of 15, and that Roach, more of a troubleshooter who takes on established fighters at various stages of their careers, will be the chief second for Cotto for only the fourth time. In his three fights with Roach, Cotto â€" who had lost back-to-back decisions to Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Austin Trout with then-trainer Pedro Diaz â€" has been almost spectacularly impressive in dispatching Delvin Rodriguez, Sergio Martinez and Daniel Geale.

All of which begs a question: Has Cottoâ€™s seeming career revival owed at least in part to astute matchmaking as much as to Roachâ€™s ministrations? It has been suggested that Cottoâ€™s current winning streak has been crafted against opponents it would have been difficult for him to not look good against.

Opinions will differ, of course, and THE RING sought input from trainers Teddy Atlas, Ken Adams, Naazim Richardson and Tommy Brooks, as well as from former heavyweight champions Evander Holyfield and Larry Holmes, all of whom have their own thoughts on the matter.

ITâ€™S ROACH

Count Adams and Brooks among those who believe Cottoâ€™s recent resurgence owes in large part to Roachâ€™s keen eye for making the proper adjustments and refinements, both technically and psychologically.

â€œIf a trainer knows his stuff, itâ€™s very possible to (have a major positive influence),â€ said Adams, a 30-year veteran of the United States Army who coached the 1988 USA boxing team and later worked with six fighters who won world titles in the pros. â€œYou have to be repetitious about doing things. You have to drill those things into your fighter until they become second nature. If you can do that, you can turn a guy around. It all comes down to how willing a fighter is to listen to what youâ€™re telling him.

â€œFreddie Roach has turned other fighters around and it looks to me that heâ€™s helped turn Cotto around too. A lot of it is because the guys he has worked with had faith in him when he got them. His reputation, which is deserved, was such that they believed he was capable of taking them to that next level. Half the battle is a fighter being receptive to what youâ€™re trying to convey to him. Cotto is smart enough to know that what heâ€™d been doing wasnâ€™t working as well as it once did. He went to Freddie and, well, you can see the results.â€

Brooks is even more resolute in saying that Roach has had a positive effect on Cottoâ€™s career uptick.

â€œIn my opinion, Freddie should get most if not all of the credit because he brought Cotto back to the basic fundamentals,â€ said Brooks, who has worked with, among others, Holyfield, Tyson and Meldrick Taylor. â€œI mean, what did Pernell Whitaker and Mike Tyson have in common? Well, both were very talented but they had different kinds of talent. Whitaker was a master boxer and Tyson could knock a guy out with one shot.

â€œIf you have that kind of power, it becomes easy to get dependent on it. Cotto, I think, had gotten used to just knocking guys out. He had forgotten about how to use his boxing skills to set his man up for the knockout. Freddie got Cotto back to those fundamentals.â€

ITâ€™S NOT ROACH

Less convinced are Atlas, Richardson, Holyfield and Holmes, all of whom said it takes more than a new trainerâ€™s dictated shift in direction to instantly improve any fighter.

â€œThe first thing you have to look at is who has (Cotto) been fighting,â€ said Atlas, now an analyst for Premier Boxing Champions on ESPN and a bit of a contrarian by nature. â€œItâ€™s easy for any trainer to become the flavor of the month or the flavor of the year of whatever if heâ€™s working with a fighter who already has a substantial body of work. Some fighters might have gone stale for a while. But if you match them up right, theyâ€™re going to look good no matter whoâ€™s training them. Thatâ€™s not the answer some people want to hear but itâ€™s the truth.

â€œIâ€™m not sure what Freddie has done with Cotto just yet. I donâ€™t know if itâ€™s a mirage. Cotto knocked out a shot Delvin Rodriguez who was an older guy and who was never an elite-type fighter. He knocked out a completely shot Sergio Martinez who was, like, 42 years old (actually 39) and coming off knee surgery. In his last fight, he knocked out (Daniel) Geale, whoâ€™s in his mid-30s, was forced to come down in weight and has been known to quit. He quit against (Gennady) Golovkin. These are the guys that Cotto dispatched since heâ€™s been with Freddie.

â€œLook, Freddie is touted as one of the top guys in the business and he is. Being able to make necessary adjustments is part of his makeup. I consider myself to be one of the trainers who can do that. But, really, this next fight against Alvarez will be more of an accurate barometer of where Cotto is now.â€

Richardson, best known for his work with Hopkins, said that â€œFreddie Roach is an outstanding coach but I think we have to question the quality of the opponents Miguel has been beating since heâ€™s been with Freddie. Miguel looked great against Sergio Martinez but how much of that was Miguel being good or Sergio being bad? And I donâ€™t think Miguel should get too much credit for the Geale fight.

â€œIâ€™m not doubting Freddie but I just donâ€™t know what Miguel has left off of those three fights. But weâ€™ll find out against Canelo. Canelo is a young, strong bull. Heâ€™s for real.â€

Holyfield was one of boxingâ€™s most persistent tinkerers, having worked with trainers Georgie Benton, Lou Duva, Don Turner, Emanuel Steward, Brooks and Ronnie Shields. He also employed at various times conditioning coach Tim Hallmark, ballet instructor Marya Kennett, strength coach Chasee Jordan and computer analysts Logan Hobson and Bob Canobbio. But Holyfield said anyone who has fought as long and as well as Cotto probably already knows all he could ever learn from any late addition to his corner team.

â€œIf enough time has gone by, you already know what you know, especially if youâ€™ve made a connection with the people youâ€™ve worked with in the past,â€ Holyfield said. â€œIf somebody new comes in and tells you to do something you donâ€™t know, you might hesitate. And if you hesitate, youâ€™re going to get hit because youâ€™re trying to figure out what to do instead of just doing what you already know and do well.

â€œIâ€™m not going to say Freddie Roach hasnâ€™t helped Cotto. Freddie has something that resonates with certain individuals. Itâ€™s not just Cotto; heâ€™s done it with other fighters. But it donâ€™t make no difference what kind of coach you are if the fighter donâ€™t believe in you, donâ€™t trust you and donâ€™t do what you ask him to do. If thatâ€™s the kind of relationship you have, it donâ€™t matter how much the trainer knows. Itâ€™s a situation that wonâ€™t work.â€

Holmes more or less is of the same opinion but perhaps more stridently so.

â€œItâ€™s mind over matter,â€ Holmes said. â€œIf Cotto donâ€™t mind, it donâ€™t matter (who trains him). The man can fight. I donâ€™t think thereâ€™s too many trainers who can teach you to fight better if youâ€™ve been fighting all your life and fighting successfully.

â€œA lot of traines, they donâ€™t know sâ€"t. I watch all these guys fight. Thereâ€™s only a couple that know how to jab. They throw roundhouse punches. Cotto does too. How is Freddie Roach going to teach him the right way to jab when he wasnâ€™t a jabber himself? Iâ€™m not going to give too much credit to any trainer. If a fighter donâ€™t have it in him heâ€™s not going to do it unless he wants to do it.â€


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Plutus said:


> It's probably nearing time for him to cash out. He doesn't have the length to do well at 160 and is too drained at 154. Maybe 2 fights with Cotto if they are competitive and then feed him some cans at 160 before having GGG slaughter him.


You don't need length to compete, Saul will have to change his style as he moves up.
Better footwork/ringcutting is going to be needed, if he can improve his punching on the move or his footspeed too that would be great.

This should have been the tapes Saul should have studied when he was younger.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hope Cotto tries this counter to the uppercut, as I expect Canelo will be looking for it.










Missing an uppercut can be a dangerous thing:


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Canelo looks really in shape. Does his torso usually look that built? His face looks a bit drawn though yeah, and he'll only have to drain further.


Cutting water will make you look more defined, it's what bodybuilders do to look good on competitions.


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## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

dyna said:


> You don't need length to compete, Saul will have to change his style as he moves up.
> Better footwork/ringcutting is going to be needed, if he can improve his punching on the move or his footspeed too that would be great.
> 
> This should have been the tapes Saul should have studied when he was younger.


Qawi was a long armed freak.

Holyfield mentioned how odd it was to be fighting a guy that short, but who had longer reach than Holyfield had himself.


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## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

dyna said:


> I wonder how much not having to care about weight adds to Cotto's confidence.
> 
> And why does he shave his legs?


Bryan likes it.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Hope Cotto tries this counter to the uppercut, as I expect Canelo will be looking for it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stop with your geale gifs lmao bogo come on...hahaha

Canelo wouldn't even throw an upper like that and usually does it planted.. and it's left uppercut he throws more often where cotto can likely only counter with a right hand which is no good at all...

Geale through that as he was being hunted in a combo while retreating you won't see the same look from nelo.

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> Stop with your geale gifs lmao bogo come on...hahaha
> 
> Canelo wouldn't even throw an upper like that and usually does it planted.. and it's left uppercut he throws more often where cotto can likely only counter with a right hand which is no good at all...
> 
> ...


I didn't say he'd throw it like Geale did I? Cotto doesn't even use that counter in that gif. But countering an uppercut with a left hook is generally effective. Don't try and comment technically on boxing, it isn't your strong suit.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

So who else thinks the promotion for this has been weak as hell?


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I didn't say he'd throw it like Geale did I? Cotto doesn't even use that counter in that gif. But countering an uppercut with a left hook is generally effective. Don't try and comment technically on boxing, it isn't your strong suit.


You can't counter left upper with a left hook, it wouldn't be effective because nelo would have his right hand up unless he's a dumb ass and keeps it low but thats boxing 101, don't know why geale left his hand down but he was trying a combo.. your gif shows a right upper being met with a counter left playing to Cotto's strenghts is all I'm saying... canelo wouldn't give same the same look.

That's a blanket statement to make man, I don't know shit about technical stuff? I'm insulted now you dick.

I like to analyze stuff like this.. your a meanie man.

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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> You can't counter left upper with a left hook, it wouldn't be effective because nelo would have his right hand up unless he's a dumb ass and keeps it low but thats boxing 101, don't know why geale left his hand down but he was trying a combo.. your gif shows a right upper being met with a counter left playing to Cotto's strenghts is all I'm saying... canelo wouldn't give same the same look.
> 
> That's a blanket statement to make man, I don't know shit about technical stuff? I'm insulted now you dick.
> 
> ...


you can counter a left uppercut with a left hook the same way you counter a left hook with a left hook. That's if the left uppercut thrower doesn't have his right hand in place well enough.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> you can counter a left uppercut with a left hook the same way you counter a left hook with a left hook. That's if the left uppercut thrower doesn't have his right hand in place well enough.


Yeah of course.. if they aren't defending properly boxing 101.. geale had his hand down.. because geale is not a level

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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> So who else thinks the promotion for this has been weak as hell?


Man the last 2 weeks this shit has been a complete embarassment.
If the PPV numbers aren't well, I wouldn't be surprised if Canelo walks from Oscar.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> You can't counter left upper with a left hook, it wouldn't be effective because nelo would have his right hand up unless he's a dumb ass and keeps it low but thats boxing 101, don't know why geale left his hand down but he was trying a combo.. your gif shows a right upper being met with a counter left playing to Cotto's strenghts is all I'm saying... canelo wouldn't give same the same look.
> 
> That's a blanket statement to make man, I don't know shit about technical stuff? I'm insulted now you dick.
> 
> ...


Sorry if I insulted you, but you nitpick every pro-Cotto statement possible. So my bad if I was a dick.

But Canelo doesn't have to throw it like Geale, it's about timing. if Canelo mistimes a counter or Cotto throws at the same time, the right hand is always going to be dropped for a left hook. Especially since Cotto ducks low on the inside.

Countering a right uppercut with a left hook is actually common:










The left uppercut is indeed more dangerous, which is why Cotto can't put his earmuffs on and wait at the end of his punches like he did against Trout/Floyd.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> Yeah of course.. if they aren't defending properly boxing 101.. geale had his hand down.. because geale is not a level
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


yeah but sometimes a fighter can have their right hand up and the punch still get through. I don't think Canelo has to fear this counter, but I'm just saying that it's possible.

An example that I can't remember off the top of my head was a fighter had his right hand up to protect the side of the head, but the hook caught him more around the temple and cheek area.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> Man the last 2 weeks this shit has been a complete embarassment.
> If the PPV numbers aren't well, I wouldn't be surprised if Canelo walks from Oscar.


yeah I'm pumped for the fight and we all are obviously because we're hardcores, but the promotion has been bad. I don't even know what the commercial looks like. Not just I haven't seen a commercial, I don't know what it looks like. They at least had Hopkins on FirstTake to promote the GGG fight. I've seen nothing for this. Maybe they're targeting the latino audience strictly.


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## Vaitor (Apr 22, 2015)

Promotion this side of the wall has been as usual for a fight this big, at least on TV... then again, we dont have PPVs...


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah I'm pumped for the fight and we all are obviously because we're hardcores, but the promotion has been bad. I don't even know what the commercial looks like. Not just I haven't seen a commercial, I don't know what it looks like. They at least had Hopkins on FirstTake to promote the GGG fight. I've seen nothing for this. Maybe they're targeting the latino audience strictly.


They had Oscar on SportsNation, but that devolved into him shitting on Floyd and then when Marcellus called out how he said Floyd shot a faded Cotto, why should anyone watch Canelo fight a even more faded one or why should anyone trust Oscar outright if he admits he lied during his build up to fighting Floyd, Oscar got quiet.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

@Bogotazo have you seen a left upper be counter by a left hook? The khan one is another example of right hand being down. I know right upper can easily be counter by a left hook if the right doesn't get to defense mode...

I was saying canelo wouldn't be throwing much right uppers because it exposes him for a left hook cottos strong suit. So then would cotto counter a left upper cut from canelo by his dominant left hook?

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> @Bogotazo have you seen a left upper be counter by a left hook? The khan one is another example of right hand being down. I know right upper can easily be counter by a left hook if the right doesn't get to defense mode...
> 
> I was saying canelo wouldn't be throwing much right uppers because it exposes him for a left hook cottos strong suit. So then would cotto counter a left upper cut from canelo by his dominant left hook?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


I wasn't talking about the left uppercut to being with though. My initial post was about countering the right uppercut. The left is a different story, Bball is right in that the opponent has to drop their right hand a bit for the left hook to land. A right hand counter works better for a left uppercut.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Vaitor said:


> Promotion this side of the wall has been as usual for a fight this big, at least on TV... then again, we dont have PPVs...


maybe I need to watch more TV. I've been streaming and DVRing a lot of my shows.



Sweethome_Bama said:


> They had Oscar on SportsNation, but that devolved into him shitting on Floyd and then when Marcellus called out how he said Floyd shot a faded Cotto, why should anyone watch Canelo fight a even more faded one or why should anyone trust Oscar outright if he admits he lied during his build up to fighting Floyd, Oscar got quiet.


:rofl DAMMMMN I need to look for that. Marcellus is so right about that too.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Another fight I think is relevant:






I know Lopez isn't half the boxer Cotto is, and Lopez does have occasional success ambushing, it appears Canelo has no problem being offensive against a shorter man trying to box him. He might be planning to be very offensive form the get go. Cotto can't stand in front unless he's inside.


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Another fight I think is relevant:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think Cotto should be making it a habit of getting on the inside with Canelo. I think Canelo is the superior in fighter and being on the inside will give Nelo the opportunity to put that weight on him, physically walk him back and setup his own countering opportunities.

His only hope, cotto, seems to be playing the keep away game and I don't think he has the mental discipline or legs to do it.


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## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I wasn't talking about the left uppercut to being with though. My initial post was about countering the right uppercut. The left is a different story, Bball is right in that the opponent has to drop their right hand a bit for the left hook to land. A right hand counter works better for a left uppercut.


Canelo has two good hands. Cotto just one. I think this will be the difference.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Another fight I think is relevant:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is a young Canelo. Pre-Trout, Floyd, Lara, Angulo, Kirkland. The funny thing is I haven't seen Canelo fight offensively like this save for Angulo.

Cotto is going to ambush, as you say, and then use tons of lateral movement. He will not stand in front of Canelo or I'd be stunned if he does. Canelo will have to get some paws on Cotto for sure, but it should be a good one. I still like Canelo mid-late and in big fashion


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I wasn't talking about the left uppercut to being with though. My initial post was about countering the right uppercut. The left is a different story, Bball is right in that the opponent has to drop their right hand a bit for the left hook to land. A right hand counter works better for a left uppercut.


Ahhh got it now.. yes canelo better be careful with right hands because Cotto gots a good counter left.. but also cotto must be careful with his left because canelo can counter hard with a right.. like @genaro g mentioned canelo is a 2 handed fighter with equal devastating power and cotto just has his left hand and his right hand is not very good.

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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> This is a young Canelo. Pre-Trout, Floyd, Lara, Angulo, Kirkland. The funny thing is I haven't seen Canelo fight offensively like this save for Angulo.
> 
> Cotto is going to ambush, as you say, and then use tons of lateral movement. He will not stand in front of Canelo or I'd be stunned if he does. Canelo will have to get some paws on Cotto for sure, but it should be a good one. I still like Canelo mid-late and in big fashion


Cottos best chance is to frustrate on defense, lateral movement and yes ambush and hope his stamina is on point. .. canelo going to wreck his shit if he starts slowing down which he will..

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

http://www.latimes.com/sports/boxin...canelo-alvarez-boxing-20151119-htmlstory.html


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> http://www.latimes.com/sports/boxin...canelo-alvarez-boxing-20151119-htmlstory.html


how much of that do you believe is true?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> how much of that do you believe is true?


Don't know, I posted it more for the build up video (despite the cringeworthy intro) than the article.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Don't know, I posted it more for the build up video (despite the cringeworthy intro) than the article.


Have you made a solid pick yet? I saw that you were slightly favouring Cotto but it seemed a little uncertain. Are you still going for Cotto?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Have you made a solid pick yet? I saw that you were slightly favouring Cotto but it seemed a little uncertain. Are you still going for Cotto?


Yeah I slightly favor Cotto. So he's my pick. That's as solid as it can get lol.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Have you made a solid pick yet? I saw that you were slightly favouring Cotto but it seemed a little uncertain. Are you still going for Cotto?


Of course he is but as the date nears it becomes more apparent that it's a pick with his heart and his mind is leaning towards nelo he just don't want to tell us. . It's ok @Bogotazo I'll be here for you to cry on my shoulder

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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> Of course he is but as the date nears it becomes more apparent that it's a pick with his heart and his mind is leaning towards nelo he just don't want to tell us. . It's ok @Bogotazo I'll be here for you to cry on my shoulder
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


Lol thanks but I'll be alright. I just always doubt my initial pick the closer the fight gets. Always happens. Was never super confident from the beginning though. It's a great match-up.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

@*Bogotazo* @*Doc* Yep, quality fight. All the conversation about the recent politics aside this is a quality fight and potentially one of the best fights of the year. I'm picking Canelo but I'm happy as a fan that it's happening at all, whoever wins.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> @*Bogotazo* @*Doc* Yep, quality fight. All the conversation about the recent politics aside this is a quality fight and potentially one of the best fights of the year. I'm picking Canelo but I'm happy as a fan that it's happening at all, whoever wins.


Yeah we're going to see a really great fight. I'm pumped.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


>


Totally would have paid more attention at school if videos like this were on the syllabus.


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

Whether its @Bogotazo or @Doc I'm going to enjoy the post fight reactions


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


>


That makes a lot of sense.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


>


Cotto is in a bad spot here.


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## jonnytightlips (Jun 14, 2012)

Fuckin hell im pumped. The ending of that 24/7 was brilliant.


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## r1p00pk (Jun 13, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


>


Damn not available in Canada still


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Ivan Calderon and Oscar breaking it down


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