# Andre Ward vs Gennady Golovkin analysis (gifs)



## Mushin (Dec 12, 2013)

This is an analysis of a hypothetical fight between Andre Ward and Gennady Golovkin.










(I put gifs between spoiler tags so that they won't all load at the same time)

*Part 1 : THE JAB*

Let's start with the jab, since I think it would be a key factor. Golovkin averages more landed jabs per round than any other current fighter measured by compubox (40), and most of them are powerful. He throws them to break his opponents' rhythm and to keep them occupied. When they think they'll catch a break or when they try to create some distance or implement their strategy, boom, here comes the jab.



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Ward has been bothered by stiff jabs in the past.



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Of course we all know that Ward loves to throw the power jab himself.



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Particularly after he throws the right hand.



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And Golovkin has been hit with that combination because he tends to pull straight back with no head movement.



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Ward also has the jab to the body.



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I think it would be a jabbing contest for large portions of the fight, and I see Golovkin landing more jabs while Ward lands the more spectacular, head-snapping jabs.

*Part 2 : DEFENSE*

Ward has excellent defense, he has a tendency to bend at the waist and get low to avoid attacks, so that his opponent doesn't have much of a target.



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But when he does that, he's vulnerable to uppercuts.



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And Golovkin throws that shot well when his opponent gets low.



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Golovkin shows some solid defense here and there, mostly upper body movement.



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But as I said in part 1, his head movement is not consistent, Which means he's also vulnerable to uppercuts.



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And straight punches.



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Ward's defense probably wouldn't stop Golovkin from finding the target, though it would take some steam off of Golovkin's punches. Golovkin himself would be an even easier target for Ward.

*Part 3 : BODY PUNCHING*

In addition to his jab to the body, Ward throws a quick right-left combination.



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Golovkin's left hook to the body is a devastating shot.



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Both fighters mostly throw bodyshots when their opponent is stationary.

Golovkin would probably throw fewer bodyshots than usual since Ward would move a lot, but he only needs to land a few to change the fight. I don't think Ward's bodywork would have much of an effect.

*Part 4 : FOOTWORK*

Ward has excellent, educated footwork.



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But Golovkin is one of the best at cutting off the ring, he does it effortlessly. No matter how much his opponents move, Golovkin only takes a few steps and he's right there in front of them.



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I don't think Ward would be able to evade Golovkin with his footwork alone, he would have to rely on something else to keep Golovkin off of him.

*Part 5 : DISTANCE*

Like I said in the first part, both fighters would try to establish the jab (or power left hand) on the outside.

In addition to that, Golovkin has the overhand right.



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And Ward's second best weapon on the outside is the straight right.



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I don't see either man having a clear advantage at long range.

At mid-range, Ward likes to mix it up and sometimes gets caught coming in.



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Golovkin loves that distance, it's where he does his best work.



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I think Golovkin would have the upper hand at mid-range. For him it's the kill zone.

At close range, shoulder to shoulder, Golovkin doesn't seem very comfortable. When his opponents force him to fight there, he will try to push them off or he will step back to create some space.



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Ward is very good at forcing the fight on the inside, pushing his opponent back, holding with one hand and working with the other, etc.



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This is the kind of things that would bother Golovkin. I see Ward having the advantage on the inside.

Golovkin would be able to stay in range but Ward would switch from outide to inside quickly to avoid spending much time in that middle range, where Golovkin is deadly.

*Part 6 : THE CLINCH*

Hate it or love it, the clinch is a very effective way to shut down your opponent's offense. Ward uses it well.

He can clinch right after dodging punches.



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Or right after throwing punches.



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When he does that there's not much you can do, unless you're either a quick counter puncher or you're willing to get rough and fight in the clinch.

Golovkin doesn't clinch and usually accepts clinches, that tactic would be a big problem for him.



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The only way I see Golovkin dealing with that is shortening up his punches to catch Ward as he's going for the clinch, but that would be very difficult to do consistently.

*Conclusion*

I got Ward winning that fight by decision. I think he would take some damage and would be forced to work harder than he's ever worked before, Golovkin would be able to compete with him skill for skill, but Ward would win by making it an ugly fight and lowering Golovkin's workrate with his nullyfying tactics.

PS - Even though my head tells me this is what would happen, I got this strange feeling when it comes to Golovkin. He's a different animal than what we're used to seeing, it's hard to know what he's truly capable of.

Thoughts and criticism are welcome.


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## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

GGG hasn't been in with someone as tough and skilled as Ward, I could see him being overwhelmed and beaten convincingly.


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

Did you make these gifs?


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

The only fight i want to see more would be Ward-Kovalev.


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## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

I've always said this would be competitive, but Ward's ability to spoil and fight otherworldy negative would have him pull away late.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Very very good breakdown. I like your style, its simple and isolates certain variables that mean a lot on their own. I agree with every bit you gave, very apt observations on GGG's uppercuts and Ward's defense, and also on the battle of jabs. I think Ward would win the battle of jabs and, with a combination of his footwork and aggressive clinch-work, would set up his shots smarter and control the ring better and be less able to get hit by GGG than the opposite. He has more defensive options than GGG, who relies very much on his footwork (though he does angle his head behind a jab well). When I saw him fight Curtis live I saw how vulnerable he was to multiple shots as he backed straight up, whereas Ward uses his upper body much more fluidly, as you demonstrated. Ward UD is also my pick, but GGG's jab and style of pressure and accurate combination punching makes it a stiff test. I'd love to see that fight and I think Ward would shine as a result of any kind of challenge provided by GGG's style.


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## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

Nice effort with the GIFs.

But I can't help but feel it all becomes redundant when Ward beats him up pretty easily. Too big for him. And it's a shame Golovkin is having to face the prospect of him as his super-fight opponent, instead of the more appropriate Martinez.


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## From Russia (Jun 5, 2013)

elite thread


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## sim_reiss (Jun 6, 2012)

Great great thread, especially for someone like me who is keen to improve their understanding of fights from a technical standpoint. 

In terms of the jab obviously a stiff jab bothers anyone if it lands but I don’t recall anyone landing it that consistently against Ward. Ward gets the better at long and short range and ultimately it'll be his ability to keep the distance either short or long that will frustrate GGG and lead to a close but clear points win. I do agree that you can't count out GGG though...


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## ~Cellzki~ (Jun 3, 2013)

good observation. i like the effort you put into it, but no way does GGG win the battle of jabs. i don't see this fight being competitive at all. don't think Golos power will be a factor here. he'll be fighting a bigger man than he's used to fighting.


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## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

Good thread. I believe Ward would win a SD (only because I'm sure someone would have GGG ahead on points somehow). I don't think it'll be that easy of a fight for Ward. We've seen how good he is but we haven't seen how good GGG is. Maybe it'll take this kind of fight to see to show that accumulation of amateur fights. Regardless, I think this would be a great fight.


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## Emeritus (Jun 9, 2013)

Great thread! 

I think Ward beat GGG easy personally he is too good a boxer too big for him.


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

:clap: How threads should be done


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

~Cellzki~ said:


> good observation. i like the effort you put into it, but no way does GGG win the battle of jabs. *i don't see this fight being competitive at all*. don't think Golos power will be a factor here. he'll be fighting a bigger man than he's used to fighting.


:haye


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## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

I also think this is a fight in which Ward might take the fight to GGG, focus on getting off first, as to limit GGG's output.


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## EL MAS MACHO (Jun 6, 2012)

Great work TS. The spoiler alert GIFs were an excellent idea. 

Triple G has IMO the most powerful jab in boxing P4P, but Ward's is much more versatile and it's faster. I think he'll boss the fight from the outside with his jab and his faster footwork. He's too cagey to mix it up at mid-range with Golovkin and will dominate him on the outside. It's a very tough match-up for Triple G. If he can't connect with something big early on he's in for a long night. 

I hope HBO don't rush this fight. I'd rather see Golovkin try to clean out 160 and Ward move up to 175.


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## dillinja (Jun 6, 2012)

Mushin said:


> This is an analysis of a hypothetical fight between Andre Ward and Gennady Golovkin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really good post, liked the gif idea


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## Pimp C (Jun 3, 2013)

Excellent analysis. I think Ward has the edge in the jab department it's more versatile power jab and especially his jab to the body seals it for me, because it will be likely something GGG has never seen. With that said GGG's ability to cut the ring concerns me in this fight. Ward has never dealt with someone so adept at it. It will be very interesting to see how he deals with it. Ward by UD would be my pick absed on his ability to fight at more ranges than GGG mainly outside and inside.


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## EvianMcGirt (Jun 9, 2013)

Mushin said:


> (I put gifs between spoiler tags so that they won't all load at the same time)


:clap:

Can this become forum standard from now on please?

GIFs are nice and all but it's a bit of a piss take at times when you're waiting ages for a page to load. Especially when people quote the GIF heavy posts.


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## lurker (May 27, 2013)

Shit. That is some thesis level write up


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## Danimal (Oct 9, 2013)

Epic Thread! 

Have to agree Ward takes it by decision, but if the fight happens soon I think he takes it comfortably. I see him being bigger, stronger, and faster than GGG. When you add that to this excellent skills analysis, I just don't see it being all that close.


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## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Fantastic thread, welcome to chb. I have Ward UD if this fight ever happens.


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## Blanco (Aug 29, 2012)

I feel Golovkin lacks some punch fluidity when throwing combination's, and trying to land consecutive shots on Ward is hard enough but lacking some punch fluidity makes it even tougher, so I do see Ward beating him to the punch every times Golovkin tries to open up.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

EvianMcGirt said:


> :clap:
> 
> Can this become forum standard from now on please?
> 
> GIFs are nice and all but it's a bit of a piss take at times when you're waiting ages for a page to load. Especially when people quote the GIF heavy posts.


Yeah it's a good idea, hope posters use this. I think I will from now on.


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## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

Nice clear, concise breakdown of the fight, really enjoyed reading that. As well as Golovkin being the smaller man i simply dont think he matches up well against Ward. Id take Ward by 10-2 / 9-3 decision, Golovkin would make him work for it though.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

~Cellzki~ said:


> good observation. i like the effort you put into it, but no way does GGG win the battle of jabs. i don't see this fight being competitive at all. don't think Golos power will be a factor here. he'll be fighting a bigger man than he's used to fighting.


I agree with you there. I think Virgil and Ward are going to specially look to take away GGG's jab in the fight.

Ward normally does and will feint with his jab plenty in the fight and counter GGG with his jab plenty in the fight
*[GIFS for yall]*


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Froch's jab is very good and longer than GGG's and Ward did a great jab at neutralizing it


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## ogle (Dec 12, 2013)

This is one of those cases where all boxing fans need to put their loyalties aside and jointly demand to the powers that be that this fight never be made. I have never not wanted a fight so bad since Jones vs Trinidad.

Let's have Ward go up to 175 for a fight with Kovavlev and the P4P crown and have Golovkin continue his dominance at 160 (for the rest of his career). Please, please, please don't make us watch this awful matchup that will only hurt both fighters.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

ogle said:


> This is one of those cases where all boxing fans need to put their loyalties aside and jointly demand to the powers that be that this fight never be made. I have never not wanted a fight so bad since Jones vs Trinidad.
> 
> Let's have Ward go up to 175 for a fight with Kovavlev and the P4P crown and have Golovkin continue his dominance at 160 (for the rest of his career). Please, please, please don't make us watch this awful matchup that will only hurt both fighters.


:huh


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> :huh


I kind of agree with him :conf you have HBO who are basically going to sacrifice the bigger boxing draw (GGG could be a PPV star imo) to try and make something out of Ward in terms of stardom that just ain't gonna happen. If GGG had already cleaned out 160 then this fight would be logical but tbh there's better fights for both men and a loss for either at this point whilst GGG is still starting out at a p4p level would be pretty damning.

Ideally I'd like HBO to really back GGG and after Adama to get him a Geale type fighter, then Sergio then a Murray, then push for Sturm/Quillin and if Ward is still at 168 then go for it but for Ward there's some cracking fights at 175, so if he could fight there and meet GGG at 168 in 18 months that would be perfect


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## One to watch (Jun 5, 2013)

Very impressive opening post.

Good observations displayed simply,it's well thought out and excellently presented.:cheers


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Great breakdown. Succinct, accessible, not verbose, every point illustrated. The spoiler tags were just a stroke of genius!

It's not out of the realms of possibility that this fight could happen at some point down the line. I agree with you and can't see anything other than a Ward decision but you've certainly given me pause for thought by emphasising some GGG's skills that I was overlooking/under-estimating.


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## ~Cellzki~ (Jun 3, 2013)

ogle said:


> This is one of those cases where all boxing fans need to put their loyalties aside and jointly demand to the powers that be that this fight never be made. I have never not wanted a fight so bad since Jones vs Trinidad.
> 
> Let's have Ward go up to 175 for a fight with Kovavlev and the P4P crown and have Golovkin continue his dominance at 160 (for the rest of his career). Please, please, please don't make us watch this awful matchup that will only hurt both fighters.





JamieC said:


> I kind of agree with him :conf you have HBO who are basically going to sacrifice the bigger boxing draw (GGG could be a PPV star imo) to try and make something out of Ward in terms of stardom that just ain't gonna happen. If GGG had already cleaned out 160 then this fight would be logical but tbh there's better fights for both men and a loss for either at this point whilst GGG is still starting out at a p4p level would be pretty damning.
> 
> Ideally I'd like HBO to really back GGG and after Adama to get him a Geale type fighter, then Sergio then a Murray, then push for Sturm/Quillin and if Ward is still at 168 then go for it but for Ward there's some cracking fights at 175, so if he could fight there and meet GGG at 168 in 18 months that would be perfect


so.... basicily, you don't want to see GGG get his ass kicked by Ward, which will result in his hype ending. you're perfectly fine with him being untested and fighting 154 lbers, yet you feel Ward should have to move up instead despite the fact the fact that he can make 168 comfortably?


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## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Brilliant post. :good


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## Danny (May 31, 2012)

This is an excellent break-down and exactly how I see it. GGG has the advantage at mid-range, he's most comfortable there and gets his hardest shots and combinations off at said range whilst Ward generally is more comfortable keeping it very long or a phone-booth fight. Long-range is interesting because most would tend to say Ward has the advantage there, he's quicker of hand and foot, very good at establishing his range and keeping it long with his jab and footwork and many would assume he's more technically skilled, however GGG as mentioned is very skilled himself, has the power jab to compete with Ward and use that left stick to cause problems and has very good footwork at cutting off the ring.

I totally agree that Ward would probably want this fight on the inside and probably win it on the inside, as I feel that's the range at which he clearly dominates GGG and he's the better ring general for me and has the craft to force a fight at that range. GGG doesn't work on the inside as he seems to struggle to find punching room and wants to push off, but as you said he also accepts clinches and doesn't do enough to keep people off him so can be spoiled. Ward is the master of that and I feel he'd crowd GGG's punching room a lot making it an inside fight for the most part and limit Golovkin's workrate as you said and just control him on the inside. I see the outside exchanges being largely even with GGG stalking behind the jab and having some success whilst Ward will do his usual thing and box comfortably off the backfoot, though not AS comfortably as other fights as in general he doesn't want to be there for large spells. I think GGG will do most of his damage with Ward coming in as you say, he can be caught and Golovkin is an under-rated power puncher.

I just think Ward's ring craft and inside ability combined with Golovkin's lack of work and know-how at that range (he seemed a bit lost like he doesn't feel at all comfortable but doesn't really know how to keep guys off him and making it an inside fight) will allow him to establish his superior skillset at close range and bring his size advantage in to play, it probably wouldn't be a great fight to watch as he'd spoil a lot but I see a clear 9-3 type decision for Ward.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

JamieC said:


> I kind of agree with him :conf you have HBO who are basically going to sacrifice the bigger boxing draw (GGG could be a PPV star imo) to try and make something out of Ward in terms of stardom that just ain't gonna happen. If GGG had already cleaned out 160 then this fight would be logical but tbh there's better fights for both men and a loss for either at this point whilst GGG is still starting out at a p4p level would be pretty damning.
> 
> Ideally I'd like HBO to really back GGG and after Adama to get him a Geale type fighter, then Sergio then a Murray, then push for Sturm/Quillin and if Ward is still at 168 then go for it but for Ward there's some cracking fights at 175, so if he could fight there and meet GGG at 168 in 18 months that would be perfect


I definitely agree that both men would benefit from letting it simmer a bit. If Golovkin can fight someone elite like Sergio or Quillin and Sturm and Murray before moving up, and Ward catches him before moving to 175, the fight is much better. But if they fought now, it would hardly be apocalyptic for either man's career, win or lose.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Awesome thread. Thanks for taking the time to organize the .gifs and provide some analysis.

With that being said, you are wrong. You neglected the fact that GGG is fucking terrible at fighting while backing up. GGG, a mid-sized MW, would get backed up fairly quickly once Ward realizes how helpless GGG is when he's not coming forward. Ward has demonstrated that he can back up larger fighters than himself at SMW, so forcing GGG on the backfoot would not be too difficult.

Ward wins a one-sided decision and, seriously, possibly stops GGG. GGG will have his moments, especially early, but he will get battered in the first half of the fight like he's never been before. This will seriously affect his confidence. How he reacts we do not know as it has never happened yet.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I definitely agree that both men would benefit from letting it simmer a bit. If Golovkin can fight someone elite like Sergio or Quillin and Sturm and Murray before moving up, and Ward catches him before moving to 175, the fight is much better. But if they fought now, it would hardly be apocalyptic for either man's career, win or lose.


Imagine if they fight in the summer (HBO are apparently keen to use it as a springboard for Ward) and Ward wins a 9-3 type decision. Can you imagine the GGG backlash from American fight fans? He would be written off. If he can establish his own legacy first he can drop back down to middle and carry it on, without one he suddenly loses marketability


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

bjl12 said:


> Awesome thread. Thanks for taking the time to organize the .gifs and provide some analysis.
> 
> With that being said, you are wrong. You neglected the fact that GGG is fucking terrible at fighting while backing up. GGG, a mid-sized MW, would get backed up fairly quickly once Ward realizes how helpless GGG is when he's not coming forward. Ward has demonstrated that he can back up larger fighters than himself at SMW, so forcing GGG on the backfoot would not be too difficult.
> 
> Ward wins a one-sided decision and, seriously, possibly stops GGG. GGG will have his moments, especially early, but he will get battered in the first half of the fight like he's never been before. This will seriously affect his confidence. How he reacts we do not know as it has never happened yet.


GGG is actually ok on the back foot, the stalker style has been amplified in America. It's when someone is in his face he struggles to get off. And he's not being stopped here, his chin is cast iron. I imagine Ward will maul him and use advantages on the inside to outgoing him all night, similar to the Froch fight in that respect


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Imagine if they fight in the summer (HBO are apparently keen to use it as a springboard for Ward) and Ward wins a 9-3 type decision. Can you imagine the GGG backlash from American fight fans? He would be written off. If he can establish his own legacy first he can drop back down to middle and carry it on, without one he suddenly loses marketability


Yeah I agree with you. The thing is GGG isn't doing himself any favors, I get he's being ducked but he needs to keep climbing, not take steps backwards. If he fights two solid opponents at middleweight, I'd be fine with a summer Ward clash. Partly because I'm not sure Sergio beats Cotto.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah I agree with you. The thing is GGG isn't doing himself any favors, I get he's being ducked but he needs to keep climbing, not take steps backwards. If he fights two solid opponents at middleweight, I'd be fine with a summer Ward clash. Partly because I'm not sure Sergio beats Cotto.


I agree, my ideal path is Adama (not a terrible fight under the circumstances) followed by Geale/Murray then Sergio then the alternate of Murray/Geale, then push for Sturm or maybe Quillin (or whoever emerges as a serious contender) then Ward that takes him to mid 2015 earliest. And by that point the Floyd fight could be a serious option and I'd prefer that tbh, could be a huge event for Floyd 50th bout. And Ward could still happen after possibly. Ward GGG is great fight but both have other options right now, I'd be worried about how the loser would rebuild if it were to happen this year


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

It's a great effort, and a pretty accuate technical breakdown. I can't argue with any of it.


- Except I doubt it means much in reality, if this fight ever happens. It would come down to one factor: How Ward decides to fight. 


If Ward plays it safe, he can probably dance his way to a UD, despite Golovkin being one of the best "herders" in the game.

If Ward decides to stay in the pocket and trade, he has no chance. I don't care how much he smothers Golovkin, he'll eventually get tagged. Ward is an accumulation puncher, whereas Golovkin only needs one clean shot. Plus, we know that Golovkin has a pretty tough chin.

All those other factors are just interesting details.


---------------------------

The again, what do I know? I bet the farm on David Price.

Twice.


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## Boro Chris (Sep 12, 2012)

JamieC said:


> I agree, my ideal path is Adama (not a terrible fight under the circumstances) followed by Geale/Murray then Sergio then the alternate of Murray/Geale, then push for Sturm or maybe Quillin (or whoever emerges as a serious contender) then Ward that takes him to mid 2015 earliest. And by that point the Floyd fight could be a serious option and I'd prefer that tbh, could be a huge event for Floyd 50th bout. And Ward could still happen after possibly. Ward GGG is great fight but both have other options right now, I'd be worried about how the loser would rebuild if it were to happen this year


Which of those fighters mentioned will actually fight him do you reckon?


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Boro Chris said:


> Which of those fighters mentioned will actually fight him do you reckon?


Haha that is the million dollar (probably more) question! I think the Sergio fight will happen, Sergio is a good boy but I think Geale could be tempted for the right money but the rumour is HBO aren't keen on that fight and want Kirkland instead, which just opens GGG to criticism at the expense of a really good fight. Murray has travelled as the underdog before but he's had a few opportunities for this and it hasn't happened but I think he would take it, again for a decent payday. All depends on how much HBO want to back him I guess


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

~Cellzki~ said:


> so.... basicily, you don't want to see GGG get his ass kicked by Ward, which will result in his hype ending. you're perfectly fine with him being untested and fighting 154 lbers, yet you feel Ward should have to move up instead despite the fact the fact that he can make 168 comfortably?


Umm no not at all. He's not going to get his "ass kicked" anyway and if you think losing to Ward does anything to his standing and ability then you are mistaken. What I want is for him to be given the opportunity in his natural division to clean up and then fight Ward, doing it now is pointless. And of course he makes it comfortably, hes a small middleweight. And hes not feastnig on 154lbers is he? He demolished Macklin who is a top fighter and Rosado was giving Quillin a lesson but he couldn't make a dent in GGG, everyone was bigging up Stevens on here beforehand as well but he got dealt with.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Great thread dude! Golo has a shot


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## ~Cellzki~ (Jun 3, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Umm no not at all. He's not going to get his "ass kicked" anyway and if you think losing to Ward does anything to his standing and ability then you are mistaken. What I want is for him to be given the opportunity in his natural division to clean up and then fight Ward, doing it now is pointless. And of course he makes it comfortably, hes a small middleweight. And hes not feastnig on 154lbers is he? He demolished Macklin who is a top fighter and Rosado was giving Quillin a lesson but he couldn't make a dent in GGG, everyone was bigging up Stevens on here beforehand as well but he got dealt with.


:rofl "Everyone was bigging up Stevens". who? Oneshot? :lol:
i can assure you that the majority of us had no idea who the hell stevens was prior to him fighting GGG, all we knew was that he's already been KTFO before. that win is on the same level of Broners win over Gavin Ress. to make matters worse, he actually had success against GGG and showed alot of flaws in his game.like i said, hes feasting on Jr. middleweights. Rosado, Ishida, and i hear he's getting ready to fight Kirkland.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Boro Chris said:


> Which of those fighters mentioned will actually fight him do you reckon?


None :lol:

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&opt=printable&id=54681

_BoxingScene.com has confirmed that WBO middleweight champion *Dmitry Pirog* (20-0, 15KOs) suffered a back injury in training, which in turn has forced him to *withdraw from a highly anticipated unification with IBO/WBA "regular" champion Gennady Golovkin (23-0 20KOs)*. The fight was scheduled to take place on August 25th with HBO televising.

According to promoter Artie Pelullo, Pirog injured his back while hitting a tire with a sledgehammer -a popular exercise among fighters. Pirog will be out 90 to 120 days.

The HBO card will go forward with Golovkin in the main event, according to Pelullo._

http://www.badlefthook.com/2012/9/2...golovkin-lou-dibella-comments-hbo-boxing-news

*"Who would give a flying fuck, and why are you even asking? Who knows Gennady Golovkin other than you, me and a few other people? How many people would he bring to the table? How much money would he generate? ... He is a very good fighter, but it's a fight that economically makes no sense." -- Lou Dibella*

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&opt=printable&id=58875#ixzz2B4t1Qwvj

_*The World Boxing Association announced that Daniel Geale will be stripped of his "super champion" status and Gennady Golovkin is named as its sole WBA middleweight champion.*

President Gilberto Mendoza made the declaration at the WBA's 91st Annual Convention in Jakarta.

Geale won the WBA "Super Champion" title when he unified the WBA and IBF titles by winning a decision over existing WBA "Super Champion" Felix Sturm on September 1 in Oberhausen, Germany.

*However because of Felix Sturm's long overdue mandatory obligation to Golovkin, the WBA declared the winner of Sturm/Geale bout must face the winner of Golovkin/Grzegorz Proksa by December 31.*

Golovkin defeated Proksa by stopping him in the fifth round in a very impressive performance. Geale has since declined to face Golovkin announcing he will fight Anthony Mundine in January 2013 in Australia._

_*Fight Hype: What are your thoughts about fighting Golovkin?

"You know, listen man, does the fight make a lot of sense? He's a serious fighter, a champion, but what is it worth to me? What am I gonna get out of that? I got a team of people gonna advise me that he's not really known in the U.S. What does that mean? They say this guy won't generate money. I don't know what that means. I didn't get into boxing to avoid guys. I'm not afraid of no man except God. He's just a regular guy, another human being. I only fear God; no other man. If I got people advising me that fight isn't worth a lot of money... you know.... what I do? -- Peter Quillin*_






http://www.boxingscene.com/dibella-sergio-martinez-not-fight-golovkin-next--67194

_*Promoter Lou DiBella, who guides the career of WBC middleweight champion Sergio Martinez (51-2-2, 28KOs), states that his fighter will not face WBA/IBO champion Gennady Golovkin (27-0, 24KOs) in his next return fight.*. Martinez last fought in April and suffered several injuries during the decision win over Martin Murray. Martinez will likely not return until 2014 and *DiBella says he won't put his fighter in the ring, after such a long layoff, with Golovkin.*

"Sergio will be out for at least a year. You saw his last fight, he won it on guts and will and balls alone. He had no knee, he had no hand, and I'm not sending a champion who is 38-years-old - after a year plus layoff - into a ring with this guy. I'm not saying they will never fight. I'm not speaking for Sergio, who is a grown as man and controls his own career. The successor to Sergio Martinez has already been determined and the next great middleweight is Triple G," DiBella said._

http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/sport/story/256269.html

_*Martin Murray has denied reports he is to fight unbeaten WBA middleweight champion Gennady Golovkin in Monte Carlo on February 1,* but confirmed they will be fighting on the same bill.

Several reports emerged in the British press on Sunday which stated the Brit had been handed a title shot against Golovkin, although Murray later revealed via his Twitter account that was not in fact the case.

A fight between the pair had been mooted to take place in the United States, but Murray could not obtain a visa.

However, Golovkin's manager Oleg Hermann believes Murray is running scared of his fighter and indicated that, even as mandatory challenger, is refusing to fight him.

*Murray does not want to box Golovkin and for a long time he's refused to do so." Hermann said. "Gennady primarily wanted to go against Murray, and we were glad that the WBA ordered this fight. Unfortunately, Murray refuses to go against Golovkin. We changed our plan and we're negotiating with another opponent."*_


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Awesome thread. Thanks for taking the time to organize the .gifs and provide some analysis.
> 
> With that being said, you are wrong. You neglected the fact that GGG is fucking terrible at fighting while backing up. GGG, a mid-sized MW, would get backed up fairly quickly once Ward realizes how helpless GGG is when he's not coming forward. Ward has demonstrated that he can back up larger fighters than himself at SMW, so forcing GGG on the backfoot would not be too difficult.
> 
> Ward wins a one-sided decision and, seriously, possibly stops GGG. GGG will have his moments, especially early, but he will get battered in the first half of the fight like he's never been before. This will seriously affect his confidence. How he reacts we do not know as it has never happened yet.


that's for sure
check out 32:00


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I definitely agree that both men would benefit from letting it simmer a bit. If Golovkin can fight someone elite like Sergio or Quillin and Sturm and Murray before moving up, and Ward catches him before moving to 175, the fight is much better. But if they fought now, it would hardly be apocalyptic for either man's career, win or lose.


See the second post on this page. I don't understand the denial.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

~Cellzki~ said:


> :rofl "Everyone was bigging up Stevens". who? Oneshot? :lol:
> i can assure you that the majority of us had no idea who the hell stevens was prior to him fighting GGG, all we knew was that he's already been KTFO before. that win is on the same level of Broners win over Gavin Ress. to make matters worse, he actually had success against GGG and showed alot of flaws in his game.like i said, hes feasting on Jr. middleweights. Rosado, Ishida, and i hear he's getting ready to fight Kirkland.


hhmm well thats not true, i wont dig them out but these are some people's predictions/analysis:

"Stevens is only 5'7" but he has a 71 1/2" reach. So he has the advantages of a short fighter, without the typical main disadvantage:

He can more easily get inside and go to the body, or land the UC, yet still land from outside if he needs to. (he'd better not against Gennady.) But he'll be harder for Golovkin to KO than any of his past opponents simply because punches lose power when thrown downwards. (and they gain power when thrown slightly upwards, as your whole body can fully support them. This is a proven fact.)

Stevens also has a DEADLY uppercut, which, as I've said before, is the single punch Golovkin is often wide-open for. The fact that it will be coming from a short fighter, and thus harder to see coming, makes it all the more lethal.

I'd also say that, punch for punch, Stevens probably actually hits harder than ever Golovkin. Sadly, he is kind of stationary, but that might not matter if he can bully his way inside and keep the fight in a phone booth.

Anybody who thinks this will be an easy night for Golovkin just hasn't been paying attention."

"I don't know Vic I"m gonna say Curtis gets the upset as well."

"Me too

He's being sold WAY short by folk"

Found these in about 2 minutes, there are more.

What flaws did he show in GGGs game? He landed a couple of monster hooks that did sweet fuck all, other than that he just tucked up and accepted his fate. Is Rosado a jr middle when hes teaching Quillin a boxing lesson or just when he fights GGG? And HBO are pushing the Kirkland fight over the Geale fight for reasons unknown


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> that's for sure
> check out 32:00


he wasnt even flustered :conf

Ward will be best to push him back, as in physically get him tied up, maul him back to the ropes and use those sneaky hooks and quick jabs to offset anything GGG wants to do


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## Badlok (Jun 8, 2013)

Great work on the thread!


You should post more often


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## ogle (Dec 12, 2013)

~Cellzki~ said:


> yet you feel Ward should have to move up instead despite the fact the fact that he can make 168 comfortably?


Ward has the skill and talent to be an all time great and has the size and style to be effective moving up in weight. Golovkin is just too small for him.

Golovkin is a very good fighter who probably isn't ATG material even at middle and lacks the frame or style to be effective at any weight above 160. Ward is just too big for him.

Ward-Golovkin is a very weird fight:
Ward doesn't want the fight
Golovkin doesn't want the fight
Ward fans don't want the fight
Golovkin fans don't want the fight
Casual fans don't want the fight

The only people who want this fight besides Golovkin haters are HBO, team Golovkin and some people on internet boxing boards. In other words, everybody who _shouldn't _want for this fight to be made.

This is a terrible mismatch. If Golovkin absolutely has to fight a bigger guy, let him fight Froch where he at least has a chance to win.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

ogle said:


> Ward has the skill and talent to be an all time great and has the size and style to be effective moving up in weight. Golovkin is just too small for him.
> 
> *Golovkin is a very good fighter who probably isn't ATG material even at middle and lacks the frame or style to be effective at any weight above 160. Ward is just too big for him*.
> 
> ...


I get what you're saying but he does have ATG potential, if he can get the fights. And i think he can be effective at 168, he fought 165 as an amateur and he has a couple of strings to his bow, but styles wise Ward holds the advantage. GGG might be the better ring general in terms of controlling ring position and tempo, but Ward will happily get inside and work away. If he was fighting the myth that is Andre Dirrell I'd give him a good chance as over 12 he'd catch up with a mover like Dirrell and turn it into his fight


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## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Awesome thread. Thanks for taking the time to organize the .gifs and provide some analysis.
> 
> With that being said, you are wrong. You neglected the fact that GGG is fucking terrible at fighting while backing up. GGG, a mid-sized MW, would get backed up fairly quickly once Ward realizes how helpless GGG is when he's not coming forward. Ward has demonstrated that he can back up larger fighters than himself at SMW, so forcing GGG on the backfoot would not be too difficult.
> 
> Ward wins a one-sided decision and, seriously, possibly stops GGG. GGG will have his moments, especially early, but he will get battered in the first half of the fight like he's never been before. This will seriously affect his confidence. How he reacts we do not know as it has never happened yet.


What makes you believe that Golovkin would be so easy to back up, i mean dont get me wrong i think Ward takes this matchup but your kidding yourself if you believe Golovkin will tamely give ground. Froch awkward footwork has always been a weakness, Kessler was a more static target than previous years when he faced Ward, lazy ass Dawson, plodding Abraham, take your pick ive not seen Ward in with a fighter with the footwork that Golovkin possess. Just because Ward has backed up super middleweights (hes a large supermiddleweight himself), doesnt mean he's going to find it easy to push back Golovkin who will grip his feet to the matt and will take full advantage of his low center of gravity and decent balance, its not all about physical strength.

Ward would win with fleet footwork mixed in with a sharp jab followed by spoiling. He wins by boxing maturely not by trying to prove himself the stronger fighter or by trying to bully Golovkin, if Ward trys to maul Golovkin and physically push him back he's likely to be caught by nasty lefts to body and head. Golovkin would revel in being able to make himself a small target with a low center of gravity whilst always being poised to throw vicious hooks to the body. Ward wins but not like you are suggesting, certai ly not early in the fight anyway, Ward will treat Golovkin with far more respect than you seem to think.

Ward has not stopped anyone of note and every single piece of evidence would suggest he's something between featherfisted and average when it comes to power, the thought of him stopping Golovkin on anything other than facial damage is frankly laughable. As is your expectation that Golovkin would lose heart if he were to find himself in a losing situation, ive not seen a shred of evidence of Golovkin ever getting disheartened, if anything i believe he will still be trying to knock Ward the fuck out even late in the fight.

Its a credit to Golovkins ability and dominance at middleweight that his name is being thrown about with a top3 p4p talent who fight a division higher, it would be better if Golovkin cleared up at Middleweight whilst Ward looked at facing Stevenson or Kovalov.


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## ogle (Dec 12, 2013)

who are the ATGs are 168 that were as small as Golovkin (who is 5'9, I don't buy that 5'10 1/4 shit)?

James Toney and Roy are the only one I can think of and their skillset was so much different than Golovkin's that there really is no comparison.


even at 160, does Golovkin even beat a guy like prime Pavlik? Does he even beat prime Jermaine Taylor?

Now don't get me wrong, maybe he does beat both of those guys and I'm not saying he can't be an all time great, it's just that, like Ward said, I see a lot of holes in his game. I would rather watch Golovkin than guys like Monzon or Hagler, but he'll never be in their league. 

What makes Golovkin so exciting is his durability, strength and power combined with his great boxing skills. At 168 the skills will still be there but the the strength and power will not, and he will be giving serious height and reach to go with it. 

Froch v Golovkin would be a really fun fight where nobody knows what would happen and would be a big draw and would help both fighters careers.

Ward v Golovkin would be a really boring fight where everybody knows exactly what would happen, that nobody would pay to watch and it would make Ward look like a bullying coward and Golovkin look like a stiff, overhyped smurf.


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## Piye (Sep 4, 2013)

Great analysis but I can only see this fight ending in wards favour. Ward is faster bigger stronger and technically more skilled he completely dominates a good GGG and kills the GGG hype. This fight should happen I've seen a lot of calls for Floyd to jump two weight classes to fight Golovkin a fight Golovkin probably wins due to size but a lot of excuses why Golovkin shouldn't move up one weight class to fight ward. Double standards are disgusting.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Ward can come up with a plan and execute the right technique to breakdown the relatively unrefined Golovkin. I found Sergio Martinez breakdown of how he would fight GGG interested as well.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Piye said:


> Great analysis but I can only see this fight ending in wards favour. Ward is faster bigger stronger and technically more skilled he completely dominates a good GGG and kills the GGG hype. This fight should happen I've seen a lot of calls for Floyd to jump two weight classes to fight Golovkin a fight Golovkin probably wins due to size but a lot of excuses why Golovkin shouldn't move up one weight class to fight ward. Double standards are disgusting.


It's not double standards is it, it's one weight class for Floyd as well, he's already became undisputed champ at 154 really and the Floyd fight is a more interesting fight for GGG I think


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

ogle said:


> who are the ATGs are 168 that were as small as Golovkin (who is 5'9, I don't buy that 5'10 1/4 shit)?
> 
> James Toney and Roy are the only one I can think of and their skillset was so much different than Golovkin's that there really is no comparison.
> 
> ...


He's the same height as hagler? And yes I would pick him over Pavlik and Taylor. If he was able to get Sergio, Murray and Sturm or Quillin in the ring with him and beat other contenders like Geale he would go down as a great middleweight champ, even though it's a weak era. Saying that if Sergio gets back to his old self it becomes a really interesting fight, Sergio of the Murray fight just doesn't have the legs


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## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

Piye said:


> Great analysis but I can only see this fight ending in wards favour. Ward is faster bigger stronger and technically more skilled he completely dominates a good GGG and kills the GGG hype. This fight should happen I've seen a lot of calls for Floyd to jump two weight classes to fight Golovkin a fight Golovkin probably wins due to size but a lot of excuses why Golovkin shouldn't move up one weight class to fight ward. Double standards are disgusting.


Ward doesnt seem all that keen on moving up to face Kovalov or Stevenson, works both ways my friend. Only stupid people would expect Mayweather to move upto middleweight to face Golovkin and ive not seen many if any calls for him to do so, actually if any. The only disgusting thing i see is the hypocrisy in your post, Golovkin should move up to face bigger fighters but Ward and Mayweather shouldn't???


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## Boro Chris (Sep 12, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> None :lol:
> 
> http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&opt=printable&id=54681
> 
> ...


Says it all really. The guys 32 and has fought fighters barely better than fringe.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Boro Chris said:


> Says it all really. The guys 32 and has fought fighters barely better than fringe.


I think the job he did on a top middleweight in Macklin has made it even harder for him than it was before


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## ogle (Dec 12, 2013)

Hagler had a 74 inch reach and was a better boxer. I don't see Golovkin having any chance against Hagler head to head although I think he would have beaten all of Hagler's successful title defenses in a more dominant fashion than Hagler did.

I'd favor Golovkin over Taylor by late knockout, but I think he'd be behind on the cards when he kayoed him

I'd have to take Pavlik over GGG. I don't even think it would be that close.


but anyway, I didn't say GGG was too small for 160, I said he is too small for 168. I bet Golovkin could make 154 if he really wanted to. He's a little dude.


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## Boro Chris (Sep 12, 2012)

ogle said:


> Hagler had a 74 inch reach and was a better boxer. I don't see Golovkin having any chance against Hagler head to head although I think he would have beaten all of Hagler's successful title defenses in a more dominant fashion than Hagler did.
> 
> I'd favor Golovkin over Taylor by late knockout, but I think he'd be behind on the cards when he kayoed him
> 
> ...


Can't really see Pavlik beating GGG. Not that Golovkin has proved himself against the very best,
just that Pavlik was never that good imo.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

~Cellzki~ said:


> so.... basicily, you don't want to see GGG get his ass kicked by Ward, which will result in his hype ending. you're perfectly fine with him being untested and fighting 154 lbers, yet you feel Ward should have to move up instead despite the fact the fact that he can make 168 comfortably?





DOM5153 said:


> Ward doesnt seem all that keen on moving up to face Kovalov or Stevenson, works both ways my friend. Only stupid people would expect Mayweather to move upto middleweight to face Golovkin and ive not seen many if any calls for him to do so, actually if any. The only disgusting thing i see is the hypocrisy in your post, Golovkin should move up to face bigger fighters but Ward and Mayweather shouldn't???


Floyd's already spanned five divisions, he's completely maxed out. Everyone saw his fight night weight against Canelo and he isn't even close to being a modern Light Middleweight. Maybe if he fought prior to the mid-80s when same day weigh-in's were still in effect. As far as Ward/Golovkin, the difference there is that Andre has already cleaned out 168 and there's nothing left for him, whereas Golovkin hasn't remotely been given the opportunity to do the same at 160. Do people truly believe he hasn't wanted fights against Martinez (A fight Dibella has vehemently gotten upset over even being mentioned), Pirog (who pulled out of their scheduled bout), Sturm (who avoided facing mandatory Golovkin for upwards of over a year), Quillin (who claims he isn't worth the risk when he really could've just mentioned network issues), Geale (who threw his WBA strap in the trash), Murray (who turned down his own mandatory shot)? You've got be to be wildly biased to not accept what's transpired here. He's managed to get two official "Top 10" rated guys in the ring and they've been utterly demolished in one-sided fashion. It's a fuckin shame about Pirog becsuse most people rated his skills... This was the fight Golovkin signed to fight for his HBO DEBUT before he had even established himself on the network and shown audiences what he was capable of.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JamieC said:


> I think the job he did on a top middleweight in Macklin has made it even harder for him than it was before


It's just retarded when people will spin the whole line about him not bringing anything to the table and then in the same breath say he hasn't beaten anyone. ??? So how exactly is he supposed to go about doing that? Tell me very specifically how that works. And by the way, who at this point in time are the bigger 'draws' in the Middleweight division? He might've even surpassed Martinez at this point. His fights have drawn ratings for HBO. Who are all these more lucrative fights at this point for these guys and why aren't they stepping up? Ah, but Sergio's about to pin one down. It'll be very interesting to see what Dibella comes up with after that, hopefully HBO rejects anything other than a Golovkin fight.


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## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Floyd's already spanned five divisions, he's completely maxed out. Everyone saw his fight night weight against Canelo and he isn't even close to being a modern Light Middleweight. Maybe if he fought prior to the mid-80s when same day weigh-in's were still in effect. As far as Ward/Golovkin, the difference there is that Andre has already cleaned out 168 and there's nothing left for him, whereas Golovkin hasn't remotely been given the opportunity to do the same at 160. Do people truly believe he hasn't wanted fights against Martinez (A fight Dibella has vehemently gotten upset over even being mentioned), Pirog (who pulled out of their scheduled bout), Sturm (who avoided facing mandatory Golovkin for upwards of over a year), Quillin (who claims he isn't worth the risk when he really could've just mentioned network issues), Geale (who threw his WBA strap in the trash), Murray (who turned down his own mandatory shot)? You've got be to be wildly biased to not accept what's transpired here. He's managed to get two official "Top 10" rated guys in the ring and they've been utterly demolished in one-sided fashion. It's a fuckin shame about Pirog becsuse most people rated his skills... This was the fight Golovkin signed to fight for his HBO DEBUT before he had even established himself on the network and shown audiences what he was capable of.


Agree with all your points, massive shame about Pirog as well.


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> It's just retarded when people will spin the whole line about him not bringing anything to the table and then in the same breath say he hasn't beaten anyone. ??? So how exactly is he supposed to go about doing that? Tell me very specifically how that works. And by the way, who at this point in time are the bigger 'draws' in the Middleweight division? He might've even surpassed Martinez at this point. His fights have drawn ratings for HBO. Who are all these more lucrative fights at this point for these guys and why aren't they stepping up? Ah, but Sergio's about to pin one down. It'll be very interesting to see what Dibella comes up with after that, hopefully HBO rejects anything other than a Golovkin fight.


It's about money Hands. I know I'm going to sound like a HW Elitist again, but this is why Boxing need a selling HW Division.

I'm going to do a little comparison between Lennox and GGG. First off, Prime Lennox will brutally KO GGG in 20 seconds, I know it's not relevant but I always like to put that out there.

Anyways on to the main point. Lewis was feared and avoided by the TOP GUNS ala Holyfield,Bowe and perhaps Tyson for a while, but he still got to build his resume with the 2nd tier guns because of money.

Did you know Tony Tucker was afraid to fight Lennox, until they gave him 7 MillionUSD or something.. Inflation wise it's 11+ Million now.
He got millions just to fight a young relatively unknown big punching heavyweight.

I can guarantee you that if Peter Quillien was suddenly offered 8 million USD to fight GGG. He'll take it in a heart beat.

These guys are fighting for peanuts now compared to the Heavyweights of the 90's. Of course they will avoid each other to sell the '0'.

People think Adrien Broner get 'paid' well for a young star.. 2nd tier Heavyweights like Ruddock were getting paid Broner money.. so they fought everyone.

NOBODY WILL DUCK ANYONE if there is enough money.
That's the bottom line.

Are people scared of Triple ***? Yes they are.
Will they fight him if they were given 90's Heavyweight Money?
100%.

No money in Boxing= current situation.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> that's for sure
> check out 32:00


Although it's a short burst, it is very evident that Gennady does NOT like fighting backing up. A guy like Ward will pick this up immediately, if not before the fight through film, and put it into action. Keep in mind, Gennady is a mid-sized MW and will likely be small at SMW. We also don't know how well his power will translate at SMW.

All signs indicate Ward toys with Gennady for me


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

DOM5153 said:


> Froch awkward footwork has always been a weakness, Kessler was a more static target than previous years when he faced Ward, lazy ass Dawson, plodding Abraham, take your pick ive not seen Ward in with a fighter with the footwork that Golovkin possess.


This is all revisionary shit on your part. Every single fight you listed: Froch, Kessler, Abraham, Dawson...they were all regarded as legitimate matchups prior to the fight. Ward exposed his opponents and made the fights uneven.



DOM5153 said:


> Just because Ward has backed up super middleweights (hes a large supermiddleweight himself), doesnt mean he's going to find it easy to push back Golovkin who will grip his feet to the matt and will take full advantage of his low center of gravity and decent balance, its not all about physical strength.


This could be a legitimate point, but I don't agree with your logic. Froch is no joke man...seriously. And Ward kept himself outside of Froch's range or smothered him. Also, and more importantly, I have yet to see anyone really compete with Ward in the clinch. I see Ward doing a lot of inside fighting with Gennady (keeping Golovkin's power at bay) and it's easier for a bigger man to wear a smaller man down that way. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen but I could definitely see something like this play out. Add in that stab-jab to the stomach that Ward is fond of...and Gennady might be in waters he's never been.



DOM5153 said:


> Ward would win with fleet footwork mixed in with a sharp jab followed by spoiling. He wins by boxing maturely not by trying to prove himself the stronger fighter or by trying to bully Golovkin, if Ward trys to maul Golovkin and physically push him back he's likely to be caught by nasty lefts to body and head.


I do not think Ward won't respect Gennady - he will. Golovkin has a strong amateur pedigree and ain't no fucking pushover. The guy's legit. But I think Ward will identify a serious weak point in Gennady's game is fighting on the backfoot. And I see him trying to utilize this time and again. Not because he wants to be "da man" but because it is a good point of attack for Ward.



DOM5153 said:


> Ward has not stopped anyone of note and every single piece of evidence would suggest he's something between featherfisted and average when it comes to power, the thought of him stopping Golovkin on anything other than facial damage is frankly laughable. As is your expectation that Golovkin would lose heart if he were to find himself in a losing situation, ive not seen a shred of evidence of Golovkin ever getting disheartened, if anything i believe he will still be trying to knock Ward the fuck out even late in the fight.


The stoppage is possibly a longshot, but I'm just saying we've never really seen Gennady tested...ever. Ward would frustrate him, counter him, hit him cleanly in the face. How will Golovkin deal with this adversity? We don't know and so I think there's a chance he would go "all-out" and leave himself wide open. BTW the shots Ward hit Edwin Rodriguez with would KO *MANY, MANY, MANY* SMW and even some LHW. Edwin has some chin on him.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> It's just retarded when people will spin the whole line about him not bringing anything to the table and then in the same breath say he hasn't beaten anyone. ??? So how exactly is he supposed to go about doing that? Tell me very specifically how that works. And by the way, who at this point in time are the bigger 'draws' in the Middleweight division? He might've even surpassed Martinez at this point. His fights have drawn ratings for HBO. Who are all these more lucrative fights at this point for these guys and why aren't they stepping up? Ah, but Sergio's about to pin one down. It'll be very interesting to see what Dibella comes up with after that, hopefully HBO rejects anything other than a Golovkin fight.


Exactly, the people that moan about his opponents need to moan at Sergio, Sturm, Murray and Quillin who have all publicly avoided GGG (Sergio gets a pass til after the Cotto fight, then it has to happen). GGG cant force them into the ring and they've made it clear they dont want it for whatever reason, the only thing we can do is hope HBO force their hand.

On a side note, I dont think a Floyd GGG match is ridiculous. Floyd is a unified champ the weight below (regardless of his fight night weight) so should GGG continue to build his profile, this could be the huge fight boxing needs especially if it's Floyd trying to go for 50-0. Wily slick veteran against new era massive puncher. I wouldnt mind it a catchweight or whatever, but i think in terms of styles match ups and getting people into boxing, this fight is more interesting than a Ward bout, but i think the Ward bout is more likely, but imagine the hype for Floyd-GGG in 18 months should GGG become undisputed champ and defend in style. Would be bigger than "The One"


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

GGG fans want him as far away from Ward as possible. I remember Ward laughing at GGG when he was getting busted up vs Rosado.

GGG fans have no faith in their fighter as to why theyd rather hom fight Floyd Mayweather who fought 50% of his career at 130 vs fightig Ward who is only one weight class higher and a logical fight


Pathetic really but thats the confidence you establish in a fan base when youre 32 and your best win is Matthew Macklin


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> GGG fans want him as far away from Ward as possible. I remember Ward laughing at GGG when he was getting busted up vs Rosado.
> 
> GGG fans have no faith in their fighter as to why theyd rather hom fight Floyd Mayweather who fought 50% of his career at 130 vs fightig Ward who is only one weight class higher and a logical fight
> 
> Pathetic really but thats the confidence you establish in a fan base when youre 32 and your best win is Matthew Macklin


Apparently GGG's been trying to get better fights (don't know for certain b/c of promoters lowballing people), but I think GGG's a good fighter. There's nothing wrong with him doing what Ward does - being a 1 division champ. I don't see anyone currently at 160 that beats GGG. Unless Sergio visits the fountain of youth. . .

Nothing wrong with calling out Floyd for that check + promotional stage + possibility of winning and becoming headliner


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## ogle (Dec 12, 2013)

I can't believe anybody thinks Floyd could have a chance against GGG. There is a pretty good chance if that fight happens Floyd seriously dies.

If Golovkin continues to dominate 4 fights a year for the next two years than he will be able to bring enough money to get guys like Quillin and Geale, who he will destroy. Martinez will be long gone so GGG will be "the man". Sturm is the only guy who will never fight him no matter what.


I actually think Quillin has a point: why should he give up his belt for no money?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Although it's a short burst, it is very evident that Gennady does NOT like fighting backing up. A guy like Ward will pick this up immediately, if not before the fight through film, and put it into action. Keep in mind, Gennady is a mid-sized MW and will likely be small at SMW. We also don't know how well his power will translate at SMW.
> 
> All signs indicate Ward toys with Gennady for me


Yeah man I'm with you on that as well. If you had to create a fighter to beat GGG, Ward would be very similar to that fighter. The only think I'd like more from him is maybe a better lead right hand. GGG gets hit with those on occasions especially when his lead hand is low


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> GGG fans want him as far away from Ward as possible. I remember Ward laughing at GGG when he was getting busted up vs Rosado.
> 
> GGG fans have no faith in their fighter as to why theyd rather hom fight Floyd Mayweather who fought 50% of his career at 130 vs fightig Ward who is only one weight class higher and a logical fight
> 
> Pathetic really but thats the confidence you establish in a fan base when youre 32 and your best win is Matthew Macklin


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz just ignore everything GGG fans have said in this thread


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> Yeah man I'm with you on that as well. If you had to create a fighter to beat GGG, Ward would be very similar to that fighter. The only think I'd like more from him is maybe a better lead right hand. GGG gets hit with those on occasions especially when his lead hand is low


Tbf if you had to create a fighter to beat anyone Ward would always be a good place to start, most versatile fighter in the game?


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Golovkin could score the upset but the smart money is on ward.


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## Setanta (May 24, 2013)

Inside the distance, GGG.

Judges, Ward.

Most likely outcome, Ward by UD.



As there is nothing much left for Ward at 168, he might think about Stevenson or Kovalev, with maybe Pascal as an intro to the division first.

GGG has lots of options left at 160.


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## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> 1. This is all revisionary shit on your part. Every single fight you listed: Froch, Kessler, Abraham, Dawson...they were all regarded as legitimate matchups prior to the fight. Ward exposed his opponents and made the fights uneven.
> 
> 2. This could be a legitimate point, but I don't agree with your logic. Froch is no joke man...seriously. And Ward kept himself outside of Froch's range or smothered him. Also, and more importantly, I have yet to see anyone really compete with Ward in the clinch. I see Ward doing a lot of inside fighting with Gennady (keeping Golovkin's power at bay) and it's easier for a bigger man to wear a smaller man down that way. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen but I could definitely see something like this play out. Add in that stab-jab to the stomach that Ward is fond of...and Gennady might be in waters he's never been.
> 
> ...


1. Not really, Kessler has been described as robotic by many although i believe his footwork to be underrated, Abraham has always been a plodder, Froch has always had awkward clunky footwork, Dawson is flat out lazy. Wards footwork is far above what those fighters can offer, Golovkin cuts off the ring very well with his footwork and is quite obviously a level above those guys in that regard. Not revisionary just an honest observation. Ward didnt expose them as anything other than not elite, they were quite obviously still legitimate opponents.

2. Of course Froch isnt a joke but he can only fight at mid range, his lack of balance coupled with his lack of agility made it a comfortable night for Ward whenever he found himself inside of Froch' range. Ward is an incredibly smart fighter and was able to push Froch around, i simply cant imagine Golovkin not doing damage when Ward gets close enough, i dont think ive ever seen Froch throw a hard punch on the inside whereas Golovkin doesnt need that much distance to get hurtful punches off.

3. This is a fair point, i think its an entirely different ball game keeping Golovkin backing up, at some point Golovkins going to set his feet again and either launch a hard jab or hook which Ward is going to have to avoid, those punches are damaging even if you take them on the arms. IMO Ward has to take a step back and Golovkin will be able to resume trying to cut the ring off. I think if the fight ever comes off Abel Sanchez would have to ensure that Golovkin continues to punch even when Ward holds or spoils.

4. Disagree completely, Ward hit him with everything but the kitchen sink but didn't seem to make a dent in him or stop him from trying to brawl widely. Golovkin is far more measured with his approach and wouldnt be taking the punches Edwin was. If it gets desperate Ward may be able to hurt Golovkin but in truth how many world class fighters has Ward stopped?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Tbf if you had to create a fighter to beat anyone Ward would always be a good place to start, most versatile fighter in the game?


yeah that's a good point actually. He could run into some trouble though if he has to face a Roy Jones or Calzaghe, but hey that's a different discussion :yep


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah that's a good point actually. He could run into some trouble though if he has to face a Roy Jones or Calzaghe, but hey that's a different discussion :yep


True but how often do those unorthodox fighters come about at the elite level of the game? My man Carl was p4p whilst being awkward and unorthodox and Ward still managed to adjust and take a risk in coming forward through mid range to take the fight away. I think Roy and Joe probably both best him, but who is around that could cause him those issues? Ilike Kovalevs punching style as its accurate but can come at some weird angles (ie hes always dangerous) but i dont think that would be enough. Theres some dangerous 175 prospects coming through (great trio in Beterbiev, Browne and Hooper) but they're a long way off. Ward is probably going to be the best of this coming post Pac-Floyd era along with GGG (weirdly again a fight that could happen like Floyd-Pac)


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## Mushin (Dec 12, 2013)

Thanks to everyone who commented, glad you enjoyed it.



Bogotazo said:


> Very very good breakdown. I like your style, its simple and isolates certain variables that mean a lot on their own. I agree with every bit you gave, very apt observations on GGG's uppercuts and Ward's defense, and also on the battle of jabs. I think Ward would win the battle of jabs and, with a combination of his footwork and aggressive clinch-work, would set up his shots smarter and control the ring better and be less able to get hit by GGG than the opposite. He has more defensive options than GGG, who relies very much on his footwork (though he does angle his head behind a jab well). When I saw him fight Curtis live I saw how vulnerable he was to multiple shots as he backed straight up, whereas Ward uses his upper body much more fluidly, as you demonstrated. Ward UD is also my pick, but GGG's jab and style of pressure and accurate combination punching makes it a stiff test. I'd love to see that fight and I think Ward would shine as a result of any kind of challenge provided by GGG's style.


Thank you, very good breakdown as well.



~Cellzki~ said:


> good observation. i like the effort you put into it, but no way does GGG win the battle of jabs. i don't see this fight being competitive at all. don't think Golos power will be a factor here. he'll be fighting a bigger man than he's used to fighting.


I didn't say Golovkin would win the battle of the jabs, I said I think he would land more jabs but Ward would land the more spectacular looking jabs. So who would win depends on what you like.



Danny said:


> I totally agree that Ward would probably want this fight on the inside and probably win it on the inside, as I feel that's the range at which he clearly dominates GGG and he's the better ring general for me and has the craft to force a fight at that range. GGG doesn't work on the inside as he seems to struggle to find punching room and wants to push off, but as you said he also accepts clinches and doesn't do enough to keep people off him so can be spoiled. Ward is the master of that and I feel he'd crowd GGG's punching room a lot making it an inside fight for the most part and limit Golovkin's workrate as you said and just control him on the inside. I see the outside exchanges being largely even with GGG stalking behind the jab and having some success whilst *Ward will do his usual thing and box comfortably off the backfoot, though not AS comfortably as other fights as in general he doesn't want to be there for large spells*. I think GGG will do most of his damage with Ward coming in as you say, he can be caught and Golovkin is an under-rated power puncher.


That's one of the things I find interesting in this matchup, the slick boxer with faster hands and feet usually dominates on the outside, but in this case I see Golovkin's jab preventing Ward from taking control at that range.



bjl12 said:


> Awesome thread. Thanks for taking the time to organize the .gifs and provide some analysis.
> 
> With that being said, you are wrong. You neglected the fact that GGG is fucking terrible at fighting while backing up. GGG, a mid-sized MW, would get backed up fairly quickly once Ward realizes how helpless GGG is when he's not coming forward. Ward has demonstrated that he can back up larger fighters than himself at SMW, so forcing GGG on the backfoot would not be too difficult.
> 
> Ward wins a one-sided decision and, seriously, possibly stops GGG. GGG will have his moments, especially early, but he will get battered in the first half of the fight like he's never been before. This will seriously affect his confidence. How he reacts we do not know as it has never happened yet.


Thank you.

I did mention that Golovkin sometimes backs up in straight line with no head movement, and gets caught clean with straight punches down the pipe. I also said that Ward would take advantage of Golovkin not being comfortable when his opponent pushes him back. I definitely don't see Golovkin getting battered though, I think you're seriously underestimating him. Take it for what it's worth but here are some thoughts from someone who's been in the ring with both :








ogle said:


> who are the ATGs are 168 that were as small as Golovkin (who is 5'9, I don't buy that 5'10 1/4 shit)?
> 
> James Toney and Roy are the only one I can think of and their skillset was so much different than Golovkin's that there really is no comparison.


Well super middleweight is a pretty young division, it's not one of the original 8 weightclasses, so you won't find many ATGs who fought there. But if you look at the current or past champions, many of them are Golovkin's height or close to it : Nigel Benn is listed at 5'9½, Eubank at 5'10, Kessler and Calzaghe at 5'11, Bika at 5'11½.

And look at Golovkin standing next to light heavyweight champion Kovalev, there doesn't seem to be a big difference in height or even size.


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## ogle (Dec 12, 2013)

wow, look how small Kovalev looks in that pic. He looks so big in the ring.

noticeably bigger than GGG, and I have heard that Kov could make 168 if he wanted to.


I'll give you Benn and Eubank but neither of those guys could make 154, Golovkin can. They were also waaaaaay faster.

Golovkin would have all of the problems that Abraham ran into at 168.


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## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

ogle said:


> wow, look how small Kovalev looks in that pic. He looks so big in the ring.
> 
> noticeably bigger than GGG, and I have heard that Kov could make 168 if he wanted to.
> 
> ...


So you're saying GGG is just a puncher?


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## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

ogle said:


> wow, look how small Kovalev looks in that pic. He looks so big in the ring.
> 
> noticeably bigger than GGG, and I have heard that Kov could make 168 if he wanted to.
> 
> ...


The only thing they have in common is power and size, similarities end there.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2014)

quality thread. My gut tells me that allot of what Ward does well comes from confidence, and that confidence will be shook when he feels GGG power even at 168, and thats why I favour GGG.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Muff said:


> So you're saying GGG is just a puncher?


When people say this it just proves they DKSAB. I mean seriously. Huge difference between GGG and Abraham.


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## Pimp C (Jun 3, 2013)

Rob said:


> quality thread. My gut tells me that allot of what Ward does well comes from confidence, and that confidence will be shook when he feels GGG power even at 168, and thats why I favour GGG.


I doubt GGG punches harder than Kessler or Abraham at 168.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

JamieC said:


> True but how often do those unorthodox fighters come about at the elite level of the game? My man Carl was p4p whilst being awkward and unorthodox and Ward still managed to adjust and take a risk in coming forward through mid range to take the fight away. I think Roy and Joe probably both best him, but who is around that could cause him those issues? Ilike Kovalevs punching style as its accurate but can come at some weird angles (ie hes always dangerous) but i dont think that would be enough. Theres some dangerous 175 prospects coming through (great trio in Beterbiev, Browne and Hooper) but they're a long way off. Ward is probably going to be the best of this coming post Pac-Floyd era along with GGG (weirdly again a fight that could happen like Floyd-Pac)


don't worry, I agree with you. I know Roy and Calzaghe aren't common commodities


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## ogle (Dec 12, 2013)

Golovkin is not Abraham. Golovkin is a great fighter and Abraham was not.

But the 160 lbs Abraham relied on his power and having at least not much of a reach disadvantage to have the success he did at middle. Golovkin's straight ahead style and slow hands mean that he is doomed when he meets guys who can handle his power and has a reach advantage.

I'm going to say it again, Golovkin is a great 160lber. He is fun to watch at 160. Golovkin at 168 will not be the same fighter. 

Let's not ruin a once in a generation fighter just because people have decided that good fighters are "supposed" to move up in weight.


People who hate Golovkin and are demanding he move up cause they want to see him lose I have no problem with. But the Golovkin fans who want to see him go to 168 just make no sense. If GGG does end up going up then I will blame them for ruining the most entertaining fighter to come along in years. And I will say, "told you so".


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> don't worry, I agree with you. I know Roy and Calzaghe aren't common commodities


Ward is a frustrating fighter to like, i think he has the ability to become a true ATG, but outside the ring issues are holding him up in his prime, and tbf although it sounds harsh he has to take some of the blame for the contractual issues. the injuries cant be helped but the promotional issues are annoying as theres so many great fights out there for him, especially at 175


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## ogle (Dec 12, 2013)

JamieC said:


> but the promotional issues are annoying as theres so many great fights out there for him, especially at 175


I don't think he really wants to fight at 175. I bet you if he ever fights Stephenson or Kov, it will be at some catchweight like 170 or something.


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## Mushin (Dec 12, 2013)

ogle said:


> Golovkin is not Abraham. Golovkin is a great fighter and Abraham was not.
> 
> But the 160 lbs Abraham relied on his power and having at least not much of a reach disadvantage to have the success he did at middle. Golovkin's straight ahead style and slow hands mean that he is doomed when he meets guys who can handle his power and has a reach advantage.
> 
> ...


I know sparring is just sparring, but the fact that Golovkin has been in the ring with light-heavyweights (Kovalev and Cloud) and cruiserweights (Afolabi) and they all praise his power and ability, makes me confident that he can at least move up to 168 and do well.

His consistent jab and ability to cut the ring off will make up for his reach (which is only one inch shorter than Ward's according to boxrec).


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## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

Short and sweet of it; master boxer gives powerhouse GGG a boxing lesson.


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## timurgepard (Nov 18, 2013)

Are you guys so scared of GGG that even made an analysis? Why he is good guy.

First. GGG said he will GO DOWN himself to 154 (at which he personally suits better as he foughts at 154 in amateurs) to fight Floyd. Floyd is NOT going 2 divisions up as someone (who's so scared) believes. he is 154 champion. Greatest of greates. Pound for pound champ. Why he should run then from someone who is going down.

Second. If Ward is going DOWN himself? Or UP? NOPE. He is such slick person that made Rodrigez to struggle from underweight by not allowing him rise weight at the fight day.

Third. If Ward wants to fight Golovkin he should go DOWN or wait his chance which is easy as he fights very rare and often has damages (where they come from? He barely box in close distance. Clinch more). I wouldnt listen such insidious guy as Ward, who is scared of moving up himself. Kovalev or Adonis destroyes him themselves. Why did he say that few thing left to him in boxing. Why not go up since you were fighting at LHW in amateurs.

I personally dont like both Ward and Mayweather. Ward being slightly better as person, is still slippery. GGG told him WAIT I have business at 160, but he is saying that GGG is not ready everywhere... as if he dont want to fight him at atll. :huh


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

timurgepard said:


> Are you guys so scared of GGG that even made an analysis? Why he is good guy.
> 
> First. GGG said he will GO DOWN himself to 154 (at which he personally suits better as he foughts at 154 in amateurs) to fight Floyd. Floyd is NOT going 2 divisions up as someone (who's so scared) believes. he is 154 champion. Greatest of greates. Pound for pound champ. Why he should run then from someone who is going down.
> 
> ...


yeah GGG fought in the amateurs at 154...in 2002. He fought in the Olympics at middleweight though while Floyd fought at featherweight in the Olympics for comparison.

GGG said he'd go up in weight to fight Ward, so what's the issue? Ward has made it clear he can't go down and GGG has said he'll come up. If he says there's no issue, why are you upset?


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## timurgepard (Nov 18, 2013)

This fight will happen If ggg completes his mission of belt unification. He has his own goals. Fight with Ward now is risky and only for satisfaction of haters.

Why do you hate someone who is not top p4p, who is not making billions, who havent even made belt unification and who wants to fight everybody who is coming to his weight, no matter from 154 or 168.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

timurgepard said:


> This fight will happen If ggg completes his mission of belt unification. He has his own goals. Fight with Ward now is risky and only for satisfaction of haters.
> 
> Why do you hate someone who is not top p4p, who is not making billions, who havent even made belt unification and who wants to fight everybody who is coming to his weight, no matter from 154 or 168.


who am I hating?


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## Mushin (Dec 12, 2013)

timurgepard said:


> Are you guys so scared of GGG that even made an analysis? Why he is good guy.
> 
> First. GGG said he will GO DOWN himself to 154 (at which he personally suits better as he foughts at 154 in amateurs) to fight Floyd. Floyd is NOT going 2 divisions up as someone (who's so scared) believes. he is 154 champion. Greatest of greates. Pound for pound champ. Why he should run then from someone who is going down.
> 
> ...


I have trouble understanding your post. Are you saying that we shouldn't discuss a hypothetical Ward vs Golovkin fight because it's not fair to Golovkin? He said himself that he's moving up after one more year at 160 so I don't see what your problem is.


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## PabstBlueRibbon (Jun 6, 2013)

Ward destroys Golovkin I'm not interested in this fight in the slightest


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## HowLongWillYouMournMe? (Dec 7, 2013)

Ward is very "too slick, too white" but there is no way he could win against GGG .. he was down against journeymen and got hit against an old Abraham .. now imagine what GGG does when he hits Ward .. and yes, he will hit him several times. GGG by brutal knockout in round 5.


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## KING (Oct 21, 2013)

Mushin said:


> This is an analysis of a hypothetical fight between Andre Ward and Gennady Golovkin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is excellent, props for putting all that together.

Can't believe I missed this thread.


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## Mushin (Dec 12, 2013)

KING said:


> This is excellent, props for putting all that together.
> 
> Can't believe I missed this thread.


Thanks.


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