# 19 seconds 19 years ago



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)




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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

Soft stoppage.


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## It's Ovah (Jun 6, 2013)

Crikey McMikey, was it really that long ago? Tua was an absolute beast. One of the hardest punchers in history, without a doubt.

Shit stoppage though.


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## Dinamita85 (Jun 14, 2013)

Love watching tuas knockouts... What a beast


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## Boogle McDougal (Jun 8, 2012)

I had Ruiz ahead at the time of the stoppage.


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## LayItDown (Jun 17, 2013)

And yet Ruiz ended up with the more accomplished career in the end... All because of Norman "Stoney" Stone!


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Pre prime Ruiz that was still a fan friendly come forward fighter.


Prime Johny would have beaten Tua somewhere in the 2000s.
Ruiz accomplished more anyway.


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## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

Boggle said:


> I had Ruiz ahead at the time of the stoppage.


Yes, he had many good moments before the hasty stoppage by that panicky ref.


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## Wig (Jan 26, 2014)

OP been waiting seven years just to post with that title.

Anticlimax I imagine!


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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

"19 seconds 19 years ago"...i like that...must share


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> Tua somewhere in the 2000s.





It's Ovah said:


> Crikey McMikey, was it really that long ago? Tua was an absolute beast. One of the hardest punchers in history, without a doubt


Shame about such a short prime.

Good example of the wrong training regimen too - if the rumors of his training are true. @Powerpuncher

Still, Tuaman was a colorful figure and had a genuine aura of threat around him.


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## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

He can't dent Ike though.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Shame about such a short prime.
> 
> Good example of the wrong training regimen too - if the rumors of his training are true. @*Powerpuncher*
> 
> Still, Tuaman was a colorful figure and had a genuine aura of threat around him.


I don't think his problem was training as much as it was his food intake.

Also I think it's rather strange that Tua was fat against Lewis yet decided to be in a decent shape against Byrd 2 fights later.
Guess that fight mentally damaged David as he never was in that shape again.

I guess his last decent win became Fres "always robbed" Oquendo.

And here the legendary fight with 2 of my 3 favourite clinching jab artists.
Highlight of the fight is Ruiz ending the fight with a sick combination and the referee stepping in way too early :lol:





Fight could only have been better if Wladimir was the referee.

For me it eclipses Limon-Chacon IV
2 Puerto Rican legends.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> I don't think his problem was training as much as it was his food intake.


He's a notorious fat ass.

But I was referring to the rumors of him deadlifting and squatting big poundages.

Sure, he got bigger and stronger, almost immovable, but as a consequence of that, his speed and explosiveness have suffered.



dyna said:


> Also I think it's rather strange that Tua was fat against Lewis yet decided to be in a decent shape against Byrd 2 fights later.


They probably thought it'd be a good idea to match Lewis for strength and size (aside from the fact that was Tua gaining weight regardless).

I wouldn't say he was in a good shape against Byrd - slimmer, yes, but he never regained his workrate and speed - it was the same fat one-punch-at-a-time headhunter Tua, only weighing a bit less.
Kinda like Bowe who was light against Golota 2 but not nearly as good as he was against JL Gonzalez.


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## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


>


 Ruiz became champ and Tua didn't, no justice.


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## Someguy101 (Jun 4, 2013)

Premature stoppage. Haven't seen a robbery like that since Reid / Ottke.


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## Boogle McDougal (Jun 8, 2012)

I would crush David Tua in a street fight. With a good size car or a truck. I would not stop to see if he was okay. Fuck that.


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

Boggle said:


> I had Ruiz ahead at the time of the stoppage.


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Good example of the wrong training regimen too - if the rumors of his training are true. @Powerpuncher
> .


I'm not sure you can knock the training routine when to lose bodyfat they used ice baths instead of roadwork or even just walking. His trainers knew how lazy he was. Tuaman would of benefited from being in an era where he needed to box every 2 weeks, he needed to be kept busy.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> I'm not sure you can knock the training routine when to lose bodyfat they used ice baths instead of roadwork or even just walking


Sounds like a routine Toney would love.



Powerpuncher said:


> Tuaman would of benefited from being in an era where he needed to box every 2 weeks, he needed to be kept busy.


True.

Tua should have fought for a title, or a big name at least, a lot earlier.
By the time he got to Lewis, he was already pregnant.
Not that he was matched badly early, just would have benefitted from fighting more often and bigger names - I'm not sure it was possible though.


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Sound like a routine Toney would love.
> 
> True.
> *
> ...


I actually think he's matched pretty well early with Duva and with some tough names too, Ibeabuchi, Rahman, Ruiz, Maskeev even Darol Wilson and Izon were seen as decent prospects too.

People often state Tua didn't have great boxing skill but technically he's very sound pressure fighter who was defensively very sound. His biggest problem aside from being very short and pedestrian was his predictability, constantly pawing jabs and looking for the left hook to the head. He had a great right hand too when he actually got into position to throw it. If he was a 2 handed bodysnatcher that mixed in uppercuts he'd have been a much bigger threat to everyone.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> I actually think he's matched pretty well early with Duva and with some tough names too, Ibeabuchi, Rahman, Ruiz, Maskeev even Darol Wilson and Izon were seen as decent prospects too.


I'd say he was matched good and bad at the same time.

Those are good names indeed, surprisingly tough even, stylistically especially some of them - compare his rise to the title shot to say Vitali, Wilder or Briggs.

It's just that some of them were unheralded back then - he lost to Ibeabuchi who was a total unknown, Maskaev was just some russian guy, Izon was coming off a loss to a journeyman Harris and never had real hype - and they all gave him tough fights - partially cuz of Tua's own deficiencies, partlially cuz they were better than they looked like at first glance.

And Tua already hit his prime circa 95-96.

I mean, let's say Tua debuts on HBO, destroys Ruiz - then takes on a faded well-known veteran like Tucker, destroys him too - then gets a shot at Moorer, the WBA champion, whom he stops too.

And we have an undefeated hard-punching champion with a fear-inducing reputation.

Match him against a couple of made to order contenders - whom Tua crushes easily in a spectacular fashion.
Put him against a fading fat Bowe to produce an epic slugfest.
And then put him against an aging Holyfield.

And there you have it - a champion with a solid run, well-known names under his belt, future HoF'er and todays fans arguing about him being a potential ATG (they would do that).



Powerpuncher said:


> People often state Tua didn't have great boxing skill but technically he's very sound pressure fighter who was defensively very sound. His biggest problem aside from being very short and pedestrian was his predictability, constantly pawing jabs and looking for the left hook to the head. He had a great right hand too when he actually got into position to throw it. If he was a 2 handed bodysnatcher that mixed in uppercuts he'd have been a much bigger threat to everyone.


Tuaman gradually abandoned his body attack after the Ruiz fight - his left hook to the body was simply brutal in the early days.

He actually could throw some good uppercuts - but rarely used them.
Same as his right hand, which was, as you say, a pretty good punch in his arsenal.

And his defense, just as his handspeed, was way above average - it's not the chin only that made Tua almost impossible to drop/hurt.

And yes, he would KO both Marciano and Dempsey's dancer legs.
Brutally and quickly.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Tua would still have the problem of being pretty slow on his feet.
The only thing that would have always hindered any hypothetical version of Tua. (unless he became a Chavez like ring-cutter)

As a finisher he was very nice, how many people he dropped ever actually made it to the final bell?
For some reason I really love how he finished Oquendo.
6:00 onwards





Yes he would KO the poor Marciano.
And for Dempsey he would be like a power punching Willie Meehan.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> As a finisher he was very nice, how many people he dropped ever actually made it to the final bell?


Yup, that was one of Tua's best qualities.
That was one of the reasons he was so feared in his prime - he was an excellent finisher.

It became obvious how far Tua had slipped by the time he rematched Rahman - if I remember correctly he hurt Rahman a couple of times but couldn't finish him and generally looked like a declining fighter.

And after that he was never the same.


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## It's Ovah (Jun 6, 2013)

dyna said:


> As a finisher he was very nice, how many people he dropped ever actually made it to the final bell?


I made a thread about that a while back, before the Barrett fight. Someone mentioned an obscure fighter from early in his career, but aside from that literally everyone he dropped he stopped almost immediately after. Fearsome puncher. Guys who got hurt by him simply didn't recover.


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> I'd say he was matched good and bad at the same time.
> 
> Those are good names indeed, surprisingly tough even, stylistically especially some of them - compare his rise to the title shot to say Vitali, Wilder or Briggs.
> 
> ...


Agree with all that, it was a little murderer's row circuit of unknown in sorts in the mid 90s. Wilder's typical of today, 15 or so bums, a few failed old contenders that are happy to lie down, before a genuine title fight against either Wlad or a weak belt holder. It's not really sport when it gets to that stage, it's almost pre-arranged. There was a piece by an ex promoter about how he tried to fix every fight and from a business perspective he felt most fights were pre arranged fixes, worth a read

http://deadspin.com/why-i-fixed-fights-1535114232



Lester1583 said:


> I mean, let's say Tua debuts on HBO, destroys Ruiz - then takes on a faded well-known veteran like Tucker, destroys him too - then gets a shot at Moorer, the WBA champion, whom he stops too.
> 
> And we have an undefeated hard-punching champion with a fear-inducing reputation.


Yes although that's your typical hyped padded record to an extent where he'd need to sign his life away to DKP. Tua's stars never really aligned to get the stylistically suited title shot, although he should of done better against Byrd.



Lester1583 said:


> Match him against a couple of made to order contenders - whom Tua crushes easily in a spectacular fashion.
> Put him against a fading fat Bowe to produce an epic slugfest.
> And then put him against an aging Holyfield.


Holyfield seemed to handle him relatively easily in sparring, although Tua is probably less inclined to try in sparring. The style suits Bowe, he likes fighting inside, winging away with his uppercuts not having to move his head or get past jabs and right hands. Tua's power is something he's never encountered ofcourse.

He'd probably be better advised to go all in against Tyson.

And there you have it - a champion with a solid run, well-known names under his belt, future HoF'er and todays fans arguing about him being a potential ATG (they would do that).



Lester1583 said:


> Tuaman gradually abandoned his body attack after the Ruiz fight - his left hook to the body was simply brutal in the early days.
> 
> He actually could throw some good uppercuts - but rarely used them.
> Same as his right hand, which was, as you say, a pretty good punch in his arsenal.
> ...


Agree with all of this. I think he could of worked on his feinting too. A unique talent that was unfulfilled. It's a waste of talent, but boxing and sport are full of such stories.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> Holyfield seemed to handle him relatively easily in sparring, although Tua is probably less inclined to try in sparring. The style suits Bowe, he likes fighting inside, winging away with his uppercuts not having to move his head or get past jabs and right hands. Tua's power is something he's never encountered ofcourse.
> He'd probably be better advised to go all in against Tyson.


Not saying Tua would beat Holyfield and Bowe - just that these were more winnable fights for him/the ones that would have showcased his strengths better.
Unlike Lewis who was the worst possible match-up for him, despite the usual "glass chin/hard puncher" argument.
Not only the Lewis loss was predictable - it also was a severe blow to Tua's reputation.
And it was his only title shot.

Tyson is a missed opportunity - one of the most talked fights of the late 90's/early 00's.



Powerpuncher said:


> There was a piece by an ex promoter about how he tried to fix every fight and from a business perspective he felt most fights were pre arranged fixes, worth a read
> http://deadspin.com/why-i-fixed-fights-1535114232


Interesting read - a good companion to The Great White Hype movie.



Powerpuncher said:


> It's not really sport when it gets to that stage, it's almost pre-arranged.


True.

But that's one of the reasons boxing is boxing - dirty, chaotic, primitive, corrupt and undeniably manly - it's still the modern day equivalent of gladiator fights.

But then again what sport is free of all of those vices?


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> definitely


Blasphemy I know, and it won't happen ever, but Lewis can be rated above Louis.

Mostly cuz no, Jersey Joe is not that great, Baer ain't shit and fuck numbers.

Lewis had almost everything to be rated even higher than he is today - but he robbed himself of that.

The Vitali win and the fact thay he retired at the right time have improved his standings significantly - not becasue Vitali was so much better than other Lewis' opponents - he wasn't - but because Lewis will forever be seen as the Master to the Klitschkos - who, like it or not, are a notable era of boxing.

Who woulda thought in the early 90's he'd be rated above Tyson?


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## Mr Magic (Jun 3, 2013)

I've heard stories of Andrzej Golatta absolutely toying with David Tua in sparring.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

It's Ovah said:


> Fearsome





dyna said:


> finisher





Powerpuncher said:


> it was a little murderer's row circuit of unknown in sorts in the mid 90s.


Sanders was one of them.

Been rewatching him lately, especially his points decisions.

He was an interesting fighter.

Most opinions of him are usually based on his two better known past-prime efforts against Rahman and Wolodya.

He actually wasn't some kind of poor man's Tyson/G-Man - early onslaught/bad stamina/loses to anybody after 3 rounds.

If an opponent allowed him to unload on himself/was weak enough, then Sanders would waste him quickly but Sanders was more of a physically gifted (in some areas) backfoot boxer-puncher - think Pac against Rios - not a pure front runner/puncher.

And he had no problem going the distance when he was younger - it was only in his later fights that he lost his stamina - probably bad training habits played their part too.

Excellent handspeed for a heavyweight - up there with the best of them - his combos looked like a cross between Pac & Ali - effortless, varied, natural, ko punches hidden in lightning-fast flurries.

Wouldn't say he was as naturally heavy handed as the division's biggest bangers - but that combination of speed, southpaw angles and B+ power made him a top puncher.

Good movement - especially on the backfoot.

Defense was his major weakness - he basically had none - not that he was easy to hit but his defensive skills were severely lacking, he rarely even held his hands high - his feet, judging of distance, reach and a threat of power were his defense.

Solid but not an undentable chin.

I'd say his absolute prime ended in 1995 and then he eroded further due to inactivity in 1998-1999.

He was considered as an opponent for Moorer back when he was a champion - that was a winnable fight for Sanders.

A dangerous fringe contender and a classic dark horse in hypothetical fights.


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## Bill Jincock (Jun 19, 2012)

Sanders will forever be known as Wlad's daddy.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> He actually wasn't some kind of poor man's Tyson/G-Man - early onslaught/bad stamina/loses to anybody after 3 rounds.


Often said that he just bull-rushed Wlad, if you read the stories you'd expect something like a G-Man-Jackson 2 or Tyson-Spinks kind of fight.
In reality Wlad got countered by a hard left after he landed a right hand and that's where it all went downhill. Then every shot Wlad threw was quickly countered by Corrie's left.



Spoiler



Just kidding
Wladimir got butted and Sanders should have been DQ'd 








:shitstir:shitstir


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## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


>


Your thread title was "19 seconds..." I knew exactly what fight it was.


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## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

Dinamita85 said:


> Love watching tuas knockouts... What a beast


They're a guilty pleasure of mine!


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Tuaman gradually abandoned his body attack after the Ruiz fight - his left hook to the body was simply brutal in the early days.
> He actually could throw some good uppercuts - but rarely used them.
> Same as his right hand, which was, as you say, a pretty good punch in his arsenal.


Been rewatching some of Tuaman's earliest fights.

Really unusual to see him fighting as a two-handed fighter - not throwing some right hands that all just serve as a disguise/preparation for his main weapon - but literally fighting as genuine two-handed fighter not dependent on one punch - throwing left hook-right uppercut combinations and even strictly right hand combos.

Only flashes of what could have been though.

Funny, it almost looked as if Tua was uncomfortable doing that - not bad but not natural.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

No footage of Sanders - Johnny Nelson, of course.

I'm suspecting Greb was black.


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## SwollenGoat (May 17, 2013)

never ever get tired of seeing that

omf,im in the boxing forum atsch


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## SwollenGoat (May 17, 2013)

Boggle said:


> I had Ruiz ahead at the time of the stoppage.


:rofl


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Sanders was one of them.
> 
> Been rewatching him lately, especially his points decisions.
> 
> ...


He was talented but like you say defensively flawed. Which fights do you think show he wasn't a frontrunner? As I'm not convinced that he wasn't really.

The problem with Sanders career was his management built him up on gatekeepers and fringe contenders but he never got pushed on to fighting top 10 guys and get title shots. Well until Klit's managers thought he'd be an easy warm up for Wlad. Maybe he needed to sign with Don King to help his career like Botha did. He certainly could have beat Botha and Schulz and Moorer were toss ups.

I suspect he didn't really like boxing though, at least he wasn't dedicated.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> Which fights do you think show he wasn't a frontrunner? As I'm not convinced that he wasn't really.


Any pre-Rahman decision win basically - Dixon, Lane, Rose.

Except the Nikolai Kulpin fight - it was the first time Sanders looked visibly tired in the fight and the first fight in which Sanders showed signs of decline.

The problem is - they were all just cannon fodder - so it's not like they challenged him that much - but still you can the pattern of his longer fights - dance a bit early, throw some combinations, if an opponent is weak/caught something big-finish him quickly, if not - settle into the groove - backfoot fighting, occasional flurries, occasional bursts of aggression.

Ross Puritty is the most recognized name among those who lasted the distance with Sanders and is the best example of Sanders not going for the KO early - really like a low-level Pac-Rios.
It's a rather monotonious fight though.



Powerpuncher said:


> The problem with Sanders career was his management built him up on gatekeepers and fringe contenders but he never got pushed on to fighting top 10 guys and get title shots. Well until Klit's managers thought he'd be an easy warm up for Wlad. Maybe he needed to sign with Don King to help his career like Botha did. He certainly could have beat Botha and Schulz and Moorer were toss ups.


He was avoided according to him.

Probably was the case of no reward at all/high risk.



> Q:You were one of the most avoided heavyweight fighters of your time. According to you, why?
> 
> CS: Well, because I am a southpaw fighter and most are right handed. You know, orthodox fighters donâ€™t like to fight guys like me, because they have too much trouble trying to avoid a hard straight left hand. It also explains why I had not many opportunities to fight for a world title.
> 
> ...


Sanders beat Botha 4 (thrice by KO) times in the amateurs, if I remember correctly.



Powerpuncher said:


> HI suspect he didn't really like boxing though, at least he wasn't dedicated.


I think he liked boxing but liked golf too.



> Sanders: I've done OK in my career but this is a tough sport and there aren't as many chances out there as some people believe. I've always had ability but I think I've lacked in confidence and it has been hard for me to motivate myself at times. I've been lazy in training, too.
> 
> It took away from my boxing career a lot because I had to play two sports but at the same time, playing golf helped me to stay calm and focus in the ring. You could say Golf completed me as an athlete. Plus, I love to play it, this sport brings me so much serenity.
> 
> Some people think it is a little strange that I'm a golfer but it teaches you about life - one day you finish two up and the next day you finish one down. Same thing in boxing.


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## andyZor (Jun 22, 2013)

Ruiz was winning the fight till that left hook landed


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

It's always interesting to watch a fighter heavily dependent on a left hook facing a southpaw.

Especially a southpaw as big as L.Jackson who outweighed Tuaman by almost a hundred pounds.

L.Jackson a tricky southpaw survivor with a Judah-like stance - so Tua had to rely on a punch he rarely ever threw in his career - lead right hand, straight mostly.

Again, very unusual to see Tua so active, almost in a Frazier-like mode.
His right hand was weak compared to the left back then - almost did no serious damage to the cagey L.Jackson.
Tua connected with his left hook only once - L.Jackson went down almost immediately.

Fast forward 1 year and Tua is facing a dancing journeyman with an outrageous haircut Sean Hart.
By that time Tua already hit his prime - much improved right hand - to a b-level of power - strong body punching, right hands to the body, left hand uppercuts, much improved punch-picking, combinations, refined defense, even occasional Tyson's right hand combinations, excellent workrate/constant pressure.

Just a perfect fighter for his dimensions and physical attributes.

Sadly, Ruiz quietly ruined him forever.


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## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

Bill Jincock said:


> Sanders will forever be known as Wlad's daddy.


:yep


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> bull-rushed. No escape. Blood-thirsty beast.


Ruiz-Anis - the Tyson-Spinks of the 90's or the dark side of the Quiet Man?


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

:lol:, handy I made that gif back in October
Faster than Tyson's fastest KO.

:deal


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Wlad is up there with the hardest punchers.
> He's not *the* hardest puncher.
> Plenty of heavyweights hit hard - Ruddock, Maskaev, Foreman, Cooney, Tua, Morrison, etc - different kinds of power but still.
> Not all of them were as good or benefitted from tag-teaming in a mediocre era.


The sickest body puncher of the division, the paradoxical Courage Tshabalala who sparred Tua, Rahman, Grant, Brewster, etc said Maskaev was the hardest puncher he's ever faced:



> What very few people know is that every time he hit me and I caught that hook, my whole side vibrated. It was the strangest feeling ever. I have been around and fought, sparred some hard hitters but Oleg's power was out of sight. I pi**ed blood after that fight.


Tshabalala - Dokiwari is the biggest fight of the 90's that never happened.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> The sickest body puncher of the division, the paradoxical Courage Tshabalala who sparred Tua, Rahman, Grant, Brewster, etc said Maskaev was the hardest puncher he's ever faced:
> 
> Thsabalala - Dokiwari is the biggest fight of the 90's that never happened.


Interesting stuff. I have it on good authority the hardest left hooker was The Duke Morrison. Above Tyson, Cooper and Tua. Pinklon Thomas said he hit so hard he thought his gloves were loaded and that he easily hit harder than Tyson.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Mr Magic said:


> I've heard stories of Andrzej Golatta absolutely toying with David Tua in sparring.


I heard he was exceptional at sparring but never heard him pacifically against Tuaman. He showed he had enormous potential...shame he's an absolute nutter. Maybe Tua made him see demons like Ibeabuchi?


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

This is the true undisputed reason Lewis never fought Ruiz.

http://i.imgur.com/IsFgukE.gifv


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> This is the true undisputed reason Lewis never fought Ruiz.


If only Wolodya could fight off the back foot as well as the Quite man - he'd be an ATG by now - instead of being a forgettable transitional champ.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> If only Wolodya could fight off the back foot as well as the Quite man - he'd be an ATG by now - instead of being a forgettable transitional champ.


I didn't think I would have ever said it.
But post-Stoney Ruiz should have been there much sooner.

His style no longer as abstract as it once was but now it resembled something what could only be described as the Puerto Rican Chavez, inside fighting replaced the mauling for which he was known for.


Spoiler















And that was a prime Chagaev, not the corpse that was destroyed by hepatitis that Wlad and Sasha fought.
Shame Ruiz was just too old by the time Stoney left.

Nice uppercuts on the inside by Johny though
Chagaev is easily Wlad's most overrated win.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> And that was a prime Chagaev, not the corpse that was destroyed by hepatitis that Wlad and Sasha fought.
> Chagaev is easily Wlad's most overrated win.


That's true actually.

It's always kinda susprising to see Chagaev listed as one of Wova's best wins, as it was a well-known fact among the ex-soviet fans that injury and disease finished Chagaev as a top heavy.

He was a shadow of his former self by the time Klitschko beat him.



dyna said:


> His style no longer as abstract as it once was but now it resembled something what could only be described as the Puerto Rican Chavez, inside fighting replaced the mauling for which he was known for.


People try to erase memories of Ruiz.

But they can't.

He's the Total Recall of boxing.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> The sickest body puncher of the division


Witherspoon - Mercer is a good example of a fighter taking a consistent body beating and yet not even slowing down, let alone showing signs of being bothered by them.

Heard it was considered controversial by some.

I'd say it was more like a close fight that could have gone either way.

A draw would have been a more appropriate result probably.



Lester1583 said:


> Still, Tuaman was a colorful figure and had a genuine aura of threat around him.


And a top 10 ATG fighter according to Povetkin.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

If only everything about Mercer was as good as his jab or chin, even if it was just his dedication.


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## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

Is it weird that in hindsight I sort of respect Ruiz. He fought everyone, sure it wasn't always pretty but dude was a fighter.


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## LeapingHook (Jan 2, 2014)

It's unlikely he'll get up, like no shit lol.


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## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

Phantom said:


> Yes, he had many good moments before the hasty stoppage by that panicky ref.


That stoppage was worse than Chavez-Taylor. atsch


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## Lampley (Jun 4, 2013)

Mrboogie23 said:


> Is it weird that in hindsight I sort of respect Ruiz. He fought everyone, sure it wasn't always pretty but dude was a fighter.


I feel the same way. He was a nuisance in some ways but that's why I respect him; he'd fight anyone and not bring a lot of bullshit to the negotiating table.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Witherspoon - Mercer is a good example of a fighter taking a consistent body beating and yet not even slowing down, let alone showing signs of being bothered by them.
> 
> Heard it was considered controversial by some.
> 
> ...


Disagree. I scored that fight for Witherspoon 6-4 or 7-3. pretty bad decision.


----------



## Kid Generic Alias (Oct 29, 2013)

dyna said:


> I don't think his problem was training as much as it was his food intake.
> 
> Also I think it's rather strange that Tua was fat against Lewis yet decided to be in a decent shape against Byrd 2 fights later.
> Guess that fight mentally damaged David as he never was in that shape again.
> ...


Only Fres Oquendo could out-spoil & out-clinch John Ruiz.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> Disagree. I scored that fight for Witherspoon 6-4 or 7-3. pretty bad decision.


6-4 isn't really a bad decision though, Tommy.

Got no problem with anynone scoring this fight for Timmah - his body attack, as was said, was consistent and he looked better in the first half.

But he did fade in the second half of the fight and Mercer landed some shots of his own too, even if they looked a bit less accurate.

It all bolis down to one thing though.

How did you score Holmes - Witherspoon?

If you scored it for a guy who looked like an upside down light bulb, then your opinion on any Witherspoon fight is invalid by default.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> This kind of fights are essential for rising prospect's development.
> 
> Marion Wilson, Boone, Baptist, Sanderline Williams, etc.
> 
> The slick old *****, as Jones would put it (he's Russian - they're all racists over there).





Powerpuncher said:


> But we both know what memories can bring, they bring Diamonds and Rust.


Like Lewis - Levi Billups, for example.

Do you remember that one?

The most left hooks thrown by Lewis in a fight? 
Probably.

The most pathetic left hooks by a future ATG heavyweight thrown in a fight?
Definitely.

No snap, just slaps, as Floyd would put it.

I've always prefered the flat-top Lewis over the trunks up to armpits Lewis but he was from a finished product back then.

Overly aggressive and defensively sloppy.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Mrboogie23 said:


> Is it weird that in hindsight I sort of respect Ruiz. He fought everyone, sure it wasn't always pretty but dude was a fighter.





Lampley said:


> I feel the same way. He was a nuisance in some ways but that's why I respect him; he'd fight anyone and not bring a lot of bullshit to the negotiating table.





dyna said:


> When he touches my hand
> An' talk ruiz talk
> I got a knocking in my knees
> And a wobble in my walk
> ...


The Rahman win solidified Ruiz's ATG status.

Plenty of people thought Rahman is going to win cuz Ruiz "isn't good, bum, no skills", etc.

And Ruiz proved on that night that he was trickier/harder to beat than many thought of him.

He was devastating_(ly dull)_, relentless_(ly boring) _ and merciless_(ly dirty)_.

He didn't care about fancy stuff.

He was all about winning.


----------



## Bratwurzt (May 16, 2013)

doug.ie said:


> "19 seconds 19 years ago"...i like that...must share


Sounds like my last fuck.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


>


After having received a near lethal dose of Matchroom hype, I felt a sudden urge to rewatch some Timmah Witherspoon.

Who's fights with Page, Pinklon and others only reaffirmed common opinion that Holmes wasn't the best fighter of his era.

More consistent, smarter, better businessman, more disciplined, better ducker, better longevity - that he was.

Unequivocally above his contemporaries, like Klitschko/Tyson/Louis were in their own time?

As the inverted lightbulb himself would put it: "Hell no! I couldn't carry their jockstrap!"


----------



## sasquatch (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Sanders was one of them.
> 
> Been rewatching him lately, especially his points decisions.
> 
> ...


you only consider anders a b plus puncher?
tell that to vitali


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> After having received a near lethal dose of Matchroom hype, I felt a sudden urge to rewatch some Timmah Witherspoon.
> 
> Who's fights with Page, Pinklon and others only reaffirmed common opinion that Holmes wasn't the best fighter of his era.
> 
> ...


I don't think Holmes is that much of a pear, but maybe a certain other HW champ has set my standards too high.












Spoiler


----------



## Tage_West (May 16, 2013)

dyna said:


> I didn't think I would have ever said it.
> But post-Stoney Ruiz should have been there much sooner.
> 
> His style no longer as abstract as it once was but now it resembled something what could only be described as the Puerto Rican Chavez, inside fighting replaced the mauling for which he was known for.
> ...


i remember people where up in arms about it when it was announced. he was finished. still can't believe he is still fighting now and holding a title(ish)


----------



## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

dyna said:


> I don't think his problem was training as much as it was his food intake.
> 
> Also I think it's rather strange that Tua was fat against Lewis yet decided to be in a decent shape against Byrd 2 fights later.
> Guess that fight mentally damaged David as he never was in that shape again.
> ...


It's Holyfield's fluent German that impresses me the most. And he comes off in English as that southern sounding black dude...


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> Hollywood years.


When protected white heavyweights ruled boxing and dem black folks knew how to behave themselves.

- Those were the days.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Sanders was one of them.
> 
> Been rewatching him lately, especially his points decisions.
> 
> ...


Very interesting post. :good

Now I wanna' go watch old Sanders fights. There's no way I'll ever find the time, but I definitely WANT to.


----------



## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

Boggle said:


> I had Ruiz ahead at the time of the stoppage.


This fuckin shit still kills me every time I come to this thread


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> - Sheeet!


Johnny Nelson's trip to South Africa.

When corner matters:


> I should have realised all was not well when the driver holding my name plate at Johannesburg Airport looked at me up and down and crossed himself.
> A few others had a similar reaction when they met me and it was only when I saw Sanders at the weigh-in I realised why they were concerned.
> He was a huge white guy, four inches taller than me, over 18st and in great physical shape.
> Crossing myself wouldn't be enough - I needed a church full of Hail Marys and a miracle or two.
> ...


Heavyweights are kings:



> I knew the odds were stacked against me from the first round.
> Sanders threw a punch that missed but he caught me with his forearm and I was flung across the ring from rope to rope.
> It was like having a rock slam into you.
> He was a monster and, as a southpaw, he was an awkward monster.
> ...


Happy ending:



> He slowed so much that at one stage I slipped inside of his punches and kissed him on the top of his head.


----------



## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Johnny Nelson's trip to South Africa.
> 
> When corner matters:
> 
> ...


:rofl are they actually legit interviews? A fair bit of hyperbole going on there. And Sanders slow? hmmm


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> :rofl are they actually legit interviews? A fair bit of hyperbole going on there. And Sanders slow? hmmm


Excerpts from his book.

No hyperbole at all.

Nelson was that fast.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Nelson has long arms.


----------



## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Excerpts from his book.
> 
> No hyperbole at all.
> 
> Nelson was that fast.


There are a few distorted memories then 'Sanders was 4 inches taller than me', 'in great physical shape' etc, I suppose he wasn't too hard to hit


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> There are a few distorted memories then 'Sanders was 4 inches taller than me', 'in great physical shape' etc, I suppose he wasn't too hard to hit


Nelson was smaller back then - 5â€² 3â€³, 160 pounds and white.

"Great physical shape" was an obvious reference to Sanders' mustache.

Did you know that Nelson retired Henry Maske? 
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...m-for-Boxing&p=2368091&viewfull=1#post2368091

Nelson's an interesting inspirational story.

From a laughing stock to an ATG champion.

If only Akinwande was as determined as him...


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> too hard to hit


Witter, Hamed, Graham, Rhodes, etc - Ingle, the king trainer of underachieving fighters or an under appreciated visionary?


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


>


Most people still argue over Chavez-Taylor.

But I know what fight haunts @dyna's nightmares:


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Just saw a video of Tua throwing a right counter uppercut.

Khan can beat Canelo. 

Anything is possible.


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

The best 19 second KO in the history of 19 second KO's.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Everything was awesome about the 90's heavyweights.

Even the journeymen were great - Wilson, Freight Train Lain, Butler, Billups, etc.

Tough, durable, hard-punching, dangerous, cagey - everything you want from a stepping stone.


----------



## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

Boggle said:


> I had Ruiz ahead at the time of the stoppage.


He had piled up points second after second.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Mullets, Mustaches, Manliness!

Gargantuan dose of sexual tyrannosaurus' testosterone:





@dyna, almost as good as Ruiz-Kirk Johnson!
@Hands of Iron, fuck these lounge tranny pervs, this mad brutality will make your hair grow back!
@Zopilote , feeling a bit down after Uchiyama's loss to the walking contaminated meat? How about a heavyweight explosion?! Try not to scream too loud - no one must know your secret.


----------



## knowimuch (May 9, 2014)

I thought the thread would be about my conception


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> @Hands of Iron, fuck these lounge tranny pervs, this mad brutality will make your hair grow back!


It's already growing back. Because I'm allowing it to. You have been following that whole mess? See it's taking focus away from boxing and Lester don't like that shit. Fuck trannies (no pun), that ain't my fuckin scene man. Ugh.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

...


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Everything was awesome about the 90's heavyweights.
> 
> Even the journeymen were great - Wilson, Freight Train Lain, Butler, Billups, etc.
> 
> Tough, durable, hard-punching, dangerous, cagey - everything you want from a stepping stone.


True that brother.

Terrence Lewis, Danell Nicholson and Jesse Ferguson comes to mind.

And I'm starting to miss Jimmy Thunder.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

How is that moustache even legal?


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> How is that moustache even legal?


Apartheid.

They are banned now.

Hence the complete suckage of the South African heavyweight boxing.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


>


Listen to these punches. Children of the 90's. What music they make.













Golota vs Mark Hunt's lost brother.

What an impressive fighter technically was Golota.
Combinations, jab, could move, body punches, diverse, not stiff, serviceable defense.
Almost everything you want from a heavyweight.

"He's been lifting for strength.
I think we know what he's been lifting.
The fork"
Sums up the Tongan underachiever pretty well.

The fight itself is a classic action.
Drama, power, bizarreness, bloood.

Sean O'Grady and Al Albert were great too.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

I remember that fight I think.
It's the one where Golota bit him right?

Edit:Or was that another?


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> I remember that fight I think.
> It's the one where Golota bit him right?
> 
> Edit:Or was that another?


Yup, that's the one with the bite.

Or maybe passionate french kissing?


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


>


Marion Wilson though.

How many KO records did he spoil?


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

All of them


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> All of them


What's interesting is that Wilson wasn't some kind of undentable freak.

I've seen him hurt.

And yet all these moral victories.

That's skills.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


>


Speaking of love.

2 questions.

How did you score Golota-Ruiz?

Was Ruiz-Oquendo the hardest fight for you emotionally?


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

I think I had it for Golota by 1 point.
But I don't exactly remember my scorecard anymore, may need to revisit.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> - O Stoney, where art thou?


Tuaman's bone-crushing debut:





At cruiser.

Imagine Johnny vs Tua at this weight.

Ali-Frazier all over again.


----------



## CASH_718 (Jan 24, 2016)

dyna said:


> Pre prime Ruiz that was still a fan friendly come forward fighter.
> 
> Prime Johny would have beaten Tua somewhere in the 2000s.
> Ruiz accomplished more anyway.


Doubtful. Tua would've got him in between clinches somewhere in those 12 rounds. Plus the mental edge that Tua would've had over Ruin would've been hard to over come.


----------



## CASH_718 (Jan 24, 2016)

CASH_718 said:


> Doubtful. Tua would've got him in between clinches somewhere in those 12 rounds. Plus the mental edge that Tua would've had over Ruin would've been hard to over come.


And thus is one case where accomplishment means nothing. Was the point of being accomplished if no one will remember you and if they do its in a completely negative way.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

CASH_718 said:


> Doubtful. Tua would've got him in between clinches somewhere in those 12 rounds. Plus the mental edge that Tua would've had over Ruin would've been hard to over come.





CASH_718 said:


> And thus is one case where accomplishment means nothing. Was the point of being accomplished if no one will remember you and if they do its in a completely negative way.


The gauntlet has been thrown down.

Defend Johnny's honor or relinquish your avatar, Sir @dyna The Troll-Burster III.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> Horrific Revelation of Malice


The Marion Wilson fight was one of the main weapons used by his detractors against Ibeabuchi.

Hurt, struggled, MD robbery win - those were the words that had been thrown at the poor cameronian boy back in the day.

Technological progress destroyed liars' lifes.
But not their will to suck.

Nothing controversial about the fight.
Nothing particularly interesting too.

Sloppy effort by Ike, trademark spoiling from Wilson.

Wilson was better on the inside, Ike on the outside.

A typical "young prospect goes the full dictance with a cagey veteran, doesn't look impressive, learns new things, improves" kind of fight.

Only for the Ike & Wilson fans.
Strictly for historical purposes.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> - Sup, D?!


The only Best I've faced that matters.

The Quiet Man:



> Best Jab.
> Tony Tucker: Not a lot of my opponents were known for their great jabs and I usually out-jabbed my opponent. I'd say, Tony Tucker. He kept throwing and firing his jab to set-up good combinations.
> 
> Best Defense.
> ...


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> The only Best I've faced that matters.
> 
> The Quiet Man:


Never read more honest words than that.

To the point, honest and effective

That's all Ruiz ever was and that's why he's the quiet man.

Only thing missing is the other forgotten king of the heavyweight division, Ruiz as quiet about him as the audience was.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> NOnly thing missing is the other forgotten king of the heavyweight division, Ruiz as quiet about him as the audience was.


He was too fast & skilled for the unwashed masses.

But his legacy will live on:


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> He was too fast & skilled for the unwashed masses.
> 
> But his legacy will live on:


You JUST know Maidana looked at the tapes of Toney-Oquendo before the Broner/Mayweather fights.


----------



## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> He can't dent Ike though.


Watched that fight a few months back...such a good fight


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Reppin501 said:


> Watched that fight a few months back...such a good fight


One of the best heavyweight fights ever.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

What's more amazing, Ibeabuchi's punch output or the fact he *outbrawled a prime *David Tua?


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> What's more amazing, Ibeabuchi's punch output or the fact he *outbrawled a prime *David Tua?


I think what was the most impressive was Ibeabuchi's progress.

You never would've guessed from watching his previous fights that he could pull off such a monumental effort.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


>


Watching Ruiz - Oquendo right now.

Ants in pants, horripilation and heebie-jeebies.


----------



## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

I get Fres Oquendo and Ossie Ocasio confused.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Rigo who?


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Still the biggest upset win for the British heavyweight boxing:





- Get up, kid. There'll be another (pay)day.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Witherspoon.

15-0 when he beat Holmes.

A heavyweight who peaked the fastest?


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Witherspoon.
> 
> 15-0 when he beat Holmes.
> 
> A heavyweight who peaked the fastest?


Spinks beating Ali.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> Spinks beating Ali.


Yes, technically.

Never considered Leon more than merely a good cruiser and a black mark on Ali's career, to be honest.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

One of the sickest heavyweight KO's evah:





Shades of Jackson - Graham.


----------



## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Yes, technically.
> 
> Never considered Leon more than merely a good cruiser and a black mark on Ali's career, to be honest.


Yes,...a black mark. I don't care if Leon was merely a good cruiser, or the second coming of Joe Louis...there was no excuse for losing to a guy with what, 6-7 pro bouts. If there was a better fighter than Leon in there with Ali that night, he would have ko'ed Ali.


----------



## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

[QUOTE="Lester1583, post: 2536269, member: 386"*]Listen to these punches. Children of the 90's. What music they make.*





Golota vs Mark Hunt's lost brother.

What an impressive fighter technically was Golota.
Combinations, jab, could move, body punches, diverse, not stiff, serviceable defense.
Almost everything you want from a heavyweight.

"He's been lifting for strength.
I think we know what he's been lifting.
The fork"
Sums up the Tongan underachiever pretty well.

The fight itself is a classic action.
Drama, power, bizarreness, bloood.

Sean O'Grady and Al Albert were great too.[/QUOTE]
I thank, you and Bela thanks you as well for that.:smile


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Morrison was a great fighter.

Not talent-wise.

But the way a heavyweight should be.

Hard-punching, exciting, brave and vulnurable.

The kind of fighter that makes people like boxing.

Every sport needs such athletes.

His left hook was a textbook perfection - leg drive, high guard, correct range of motion.


----------



## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Morrison was a great fighter.
> 
> Not talent-wise.
> 
> ...


I always liked Morrison...always always enjoyed seeing him on ESPN on his way up. He was, as you've so well described him Lester, a fan/tv friendly, exciting, colorful fighter, who was fortunate, despite his brutal ko defeats, to have come along in the era he was in. My admiration for him peaked however, when he defeated George Foreman. This was a special win for him LMHO, because he revealed an extra dimension that I frankly didn't think he had. He showed that he had the discipline, maybe born of a healthy, common sense fear of Old George, to adopt an entirely new style,...a new approach...a "stick and move" style...and to stick with it throughout...hence the *discipline*......and emerge an upset winner. This win's significance, was amplified in importance when, over a year later, Old George ko'ed hotshot Michael Moorer to make history as the oldest heavyweight titlist. Seems that Moorer...in that humiliating defeat, didn't have that necessary discipline,...the prerquisite ring smarts that Tommy displayed...and therefore Morrison's accomplishment was made even more impressive. Sure Tommy ran non stop all the way, and failed to even come close to hurting Foreman, but *he won*!! Tommy's coach surely turned into a pumpkin after that...right after that as a matter of fact vs Michael Bentt, but to me, he covered himself with glory in fighting a smart, disciplined fight...a smart, effective strategy vs George...and won my undying respect as a result.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Phantom said:


> Respect for Tommy Gunn


Just goes to show how hard it is to predict boxing.

A glass-chinned straight-forward slugger with suspect stamina vs An undentable puncher who can pace himself.

The result is obvious.

And yet...

Wouldn't call what Tommy did running.

It's interesting and speaks volumes about Foreman's presense that the thought of stopping/outslugging him never even crossed Morrison's mind.
Himself a murderous puncher and an aggressive fighter.

Big George was pushing Morrison away with such ridiculous ease, it was awe-inspiring to watch.
Truly a once in a lifetime mountain of a man.


----------



## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Just goes to show how hard it is to predict boxing.
> 
> A glass-chinned straight-forward slugger with suspect stamina vs An undentable puncher who can pace himself.
> 
> ...


Fascinating, one of a kind sport boxing is...Jimmy Young's win over Big George was also notable in that Foreman looked almost twice Jimmy's size....able to shove Jimmy about as though Young were a middleweight....and how Jimmy displayed his slick brilliance in so casually making George look like a clueless dummy. I don't think I've ever seen George look so big and powerful as in that San Juan bout.


----------



## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

You can only imagine what Foreman would have done to Tommy back in the 70's....the version that Young beat would have decapitated Morrison IMO.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Phantom said:


> You can only imagine what Foreman would have done to Tommy back in the 70's....the version that Young beat would have decapitated Morrison IMO.


Also much more susceptible to big counters.

I would favour him to destroy Morrison, but that Foreman was so open and if walks into a full counter hook....
Tommy not as durable as Lyle, but ever so dangerous.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> I would favour him to destroy Morrison


Morrison-Moorer - now that would've been a very hard fight to predict.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

A 265¼ Anthony Wade throwing a jumping jab is one of the greatest feats of agility ever caught on film.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> Oquendo has never been outlanded in any of his losses.


Let that sink in, people.


----------



## Jim Kelly (Jul 12, 2012)

tema tua were after a tyson fight after the bruno or seldon fight. Kevin barry was chasing don king for the fight but tema tyson rejected it.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Tua vs Kali Meehan - New Zealand 1989:




@dyna


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Tua vs Kali Meehan - New Zealand 1989:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fastest I've ever seen him.

Also the wildest.

Tyson-esque


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> The greatest heavyweight trilogy of all time


An underrated win by Tua





Not that N.Tubbs was anything special - a minor hard punching underachiever.

But this was one of Tuaman's last and best body punching displays.

It also shows how immensely strong and powerful Tua was - notice that against Sanders N.Tubbs fought as an aggressor - he didn't even try to do that here.

As a side note, Clay Bey - Etienne is literally a bootleg version of Toney-Barkley.
Only much more competitive.
Good ol' c-level heavyweight action.


----------



## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Tua vs Kali Meehan - New Zealand 1989:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


David and Goliath affair. Kali was sure a gawky kid back then.

Thanks for posting - first time I have ever seen it.


----------



## Erratic (Aug 9, 2017)

I like watching Tua-Ruiz 3 times when I have a minute to waste


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

This one goes out to all my Merciless freaks out there.

Holla if ya hear me!

Mercer - young and thin - the army days:




@tommygun711


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Akinwande - Herbie Hide amateurs




@dyna


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Phantom said:


> Yes,...a black mark. I don't care if Leon was merely a good cruiser, or the second coming of Joe Louis...there was no excuse for losing to a guy with what, 6-7 pro bouts. If there was a better fighter than Leon in there with Ali that night, he would have ko'ed Ali.


He was already ill.

What is worth taking into consideration is that he beat Leon second time round. Even taking into account Neon Leon's fondness of the night life, shot Ali had no business beating him.


----------



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

I was talking to a guy who sparred Tua. He was blown away by the size of his legs, he kept saying. He made it to the 2nd round of sparring with Tua but just couldn't take anymore.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

rjjfan said:


> He was blown away by the size of his legs, he kept saying.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> Tears of remembrance


Yugoslavian Titanium





No subtitles - just 100% eastern euronness:





Legacy of Rage:





Lewis' top 1 win.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Atomic Bull amateur fight


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

45 today.

Forever Strong


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> 45 today.
> 
> Forever Strong


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


>


Mustachesterone Booster:




Don't boxrec the result.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Mustachesterone Booster:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Holy fuck, what a fight....


----------



## Erratic (Aug 9, 2017)

Lester1583 said:


> Yugoslavian Titanium
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lewis just hit him with bombs, it was nuts how many uppercuts and right crosses Mavrovic ate flush.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Forgotten prospect
Forgotten upset





@dyna


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## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Mustachesterone Booster:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn, Coetzer was tough!


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## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Forgotten prospect
> Forgotten upset
> 
> 
> ...


I remember Courage claiming to have some kind of amateur record of 71-1, 69 KOs, or something like that.

Didn't Tua later KO him too?


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Sittin Sonny said:


> Didn't Tua later KO him too?


No, Tua KO'd Darrol Wilson who beat Tshabalala in a short seesaw slugfest and upset Shannon Briggs.


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## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> No, Tua KO'd Darrol Wilson who beat Tshabalala in a short seesaw slugfest and upset Shannon Briggs.


Thanks.

That was an enjoyable time for HWs - a lot of very interesting prospects came and went, and so many of them actually fought one another (a novel concept compared to more recent years).

Here's another crossroads fight from that era:


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