# Prime Joe Calzaghe vs Andre Ward



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Probably a bit too early as Andre has to win against Kovalev to even be considered against Joe but who do you see winning?


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

I just doubt this fight would happen. Joe would want the crown jewels and have "hand injuries" while Ward would battle his promoter over the color of the fighters underwear.

If it did happen, Joe's workrate would be incredible but he had zero power and Andre is a master at adjustments. A very close, controversial decision in which Joe lands a lot of meaningless punches and Andre lands the more accurate punches. 

Since Ward hasn't lost in decades I have to go with him. Narrowly.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

I don't see the need for Ward to win to be mentioned with Joe, either. Ward equaled Joe's best win years ago (Kessler) only in far more dominant fashion. Joe's next best wins are old Hopkins and Shot Jones. The version of Froch that Andre faced, while not as great in his prime, was certainly on par with the faded legends Joe encountered.

Beating good fighters at their best > beating great fighters past their best, IMO.


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## Slimtrae (Aug 10, 2015)

JC is far too unorthodox to predict.
Kessler said post fight "He spoiled my boxing."

Funny way to explain. 
I would PPV it. 50/50 fight.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Joe doesn't really have any advantage. Quick, awkward, and busy is enough to make the fight competitive but not enough to win the fight. He's gotten hit and dropped more often against similar or lesser opposition. Even if he pinned Ward, the Hopkins fight showed there's no way he'd be the more accurate one in exchanges. He's far less competent on the inside, less athletic, and isn't likely to hurt Ward. Not to mention Ward is great at fighting Southpaws.


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## Peter Barlow (Jun 4, 2013)

Joe Cal already schooled all the big hyped up Americans like Jeff Lacy, Roy Jones, Bernard Hopkins. What's one more to the list for Joe.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Peter Barlow said:


> Joe Cal already schooled all the big hyped up Americans like Jeff Lacy, Roy Jones, Bernard Hopkins. What's one more to the list for Joe.


He laid an ass whipping on Lacy, who was nowhere near as good as Ward. But the Jones and Hopkins fights came far too late to establish anything other than financial gain.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Calzaghe/Hopkins was close, Ward is on a different level to that Hopkins, Ward has looked unbeatable I could never pick Calzaghe to beat him


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## Peter Barlow (Jun 4, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> He laid an ass whipping on Lacy, who was nowhere near as good as Ward. But the Jones and Hopkins fights came far too late to establish anything other than financial gain.


Hopkins is still going? Brought Kovalev 12 rounds. Joe is very underrated by you Jeff. I think deep down a lot of Americans and other fans, are still hurt at what Joe did to Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins.


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## knowimuch (May 9, 2014)

Easy day at the office for Sir Joe Calzaghe, Bellewesque powah


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## Slimtrae (Aug 10, 2015)

Peter Barlow said:


> Hopkins is still going? Brought Kovalev 12 rounds. Joe is very underrated by you Jeff. I think deep down a lot of Americans and other fans, are still hurt at what Joe did to Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins.


LOL! Wasn't he an underdog against Lacy? 
He's one of those athletes that doesn't do anything great, rather alot of things good.

Not much for mythical matchups but in this case give me prime JC vs current Kov over prime Hop or RJJ.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Peter Barlow said:


> Hopkins is still going? Brought Kovalev 12 rounds. Joe is very underrated by you Jeff. I think deep down a lot of Americans and other fans, are still hurt at what Joe did to Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins.


That's a gross overestimation of how often American fight fans think about Joe Calzaghe. He was one of many to beat up a shot Roy Jones and give an old Hopkins a bit too much to handle. No fight fans are hurting over Jermain Taylor or Chad Dawson doing the same thing either, because it wasn't dominant enough to be historic.

In the grand scheme of things, Calzaghe is a footnote in history. A decent fighter. HOF worthy even. But never as important or accomplished as Brit-influenced conversations about him make him seem.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

A lot of dumb Americans these days still don't know who Calzaghe is. In order to educate people, I have to bring up the fact that he retired undefeated & beat bhop and jones (albeit old versions) and those are hardly even his best wins, they are just the most mainstream and easiest examples to point to. He really doesn't get a lot of respect over here... Not too surprising. Eubank, Kessler, Lacy and Bika make up the bulk of his resume, and it's not much. I would have liked to see that Carl Froch fight.



Bogotazo said:


> That's a gross overestimation of how often American fight fans think about Joe Calzaghe. He was one of many to beat up a shot Roy Jones and give an old Hopkins a bit too much to handle. No fight fans are hurting over Jermain Taylor or Chad Dawson doing the same thing either, because it wasn't dominant enough to be historic.
> 
> In the grand scheme of things, Calzaghe is a footnote in history. A decent fighter. HOF worthy even. But never as important or accomplished as Brit-influenced conversations about him make him seem.


To be fair he is among the best 168 pound fighters of all time.. Granted that is a pretty shallow division compared to the other divisions as far as ATGs, but still he has a place in history.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> To be fair he is among the best 168 pound fighters of all time, and that is a pretty shallow division compared to the other divisions as far as ATGs, but still he has a place in history.


He's definitely a historic fighter in terms of SMW. But he simply didn't do much of note outside of that little corner. And that's not to imply he has a bad resume, but he's not a pound-for-pound great and none of his performances suggest to me he'd be able to beat a skilled talent like Ward (who I would also call a historical footnote if he retired today; very good, but not great.) I mean you said it yourself:



tommygun711 said:


> Eubank, Kessler, Lacy and Bika make up the bulk of his resume, and it's not much.


So I'm not sure why you'd be surprised he doesn't have a lot of veneration in the US.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> He's definitely a historic fighter in terms of SMW. But he simply didn't do much of note outside of that little corner. And that's not to imply he has a bad resume, but he's not a pound-for-pound great and none of his performances suggest to me he'd be able to beat a skilled talent like Ward (who I would also call a historical footnote if he retired today; very good, but not great.) I mean you said it yourself:
> 
> So I'm not sure why you'd be surprised he doesn't have a lot of veneration in the US.


uh... did you read the very next sentence where I said it's not surprising, bogo :lol: I think he would have a close fight with Ward and it wouldnt be pretty. It would be controversial


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> uh... did you read the very next sentence where I said it's not surprising, bogo :lol: I think he would have a close fight with Ward and it wouldnt be pretty. It would be controversial


My bad I misread that line.


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## Flag Nonce (Apr 28, 2016)

Ward schools and beats up another southpaw


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

This guy is not beating Ward.


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## chibelle (Jun 5, 2013)

He might scratch Wards cornea though. Rawr.


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> That's a gross overestimation of how often American fight fans think about Joe Calzaghe. He was one of many to beat up a shot Roy Jones and give an old Hopkins a bit too much to handle. No fight fans are hurting over Jermain Taylor or Chad Dawson doing the same thing either, because it wasn't dominant enough to be historic.
> 
> In the grand scheme of things, Calzaghe is a footnote in history. A decent fighter. HOF worthy even. But never as important or accomplished as Brit-influenced conversations about him make him seem.


He's a bit of an enigma in that his opposition was mostly mediocre or past-prime but there are enough intangibles in addition to the things we _*do*_ know about him to suggest he'd be a very tough night for anyone at 168, Ward included. By way of comparison: people would dismiss Fury if he'd retired after fighting Christian Hammer, and I think Calzaghe's a little similar.

He does come across as a bit of a wanker at times though, and for 46 fights his CV is pretty piss-weak.


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> This guy is not beating Ward.


You can pick any fighter and make them look bad with a few gifs. Joe was a top fighter and Ward hasn't done enough to prove he would easily beat Calzaghe. If he beats Kovalev then yeah he is clearly better.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> This guy is not beating Ward.












Its easy enough to pick out selected gifs.

This is a quality fight though, two guys who have a good all round game, both can adapt, but have good chins even though they can be hit at times,I think their styles would mesh well too. I see a fight where it swings a lot, lots of technical changes and adaptions to gameplans. The winner is the one who is faster to adapt to the adaptions imo.


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## wow_junky (Jun 21, 2012)

Kessler and Hopkins are better than any wins on Ward's resume. It's a shame JC fought mostly chaff throughout his career though.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

wow_junky said:


> Kessler and Hopkins are better than any wins on Ward's resume. It's a shame JC fought mostly chaff throughout his career though.


Are they really better wins than Froch (and eventually) Kovalev?


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Peter Barlow said:


> Hopkins is still going? Brought Kovalev 12 rounds. Joe is very underrated by you Jeff. I think deep down a lot of Americans and other fans, are still hurt at what Joe did to Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins.


I think Joe had great hand speed and ability to make adjustments. I also realize his resume is thin and 168 is a pretty new division.

Personally, I was never a big Jones fan and Hopkins had pissed me off several times prior to their fight. I rooted for Taylor over Hopkins prior to Joe facing him. Some Americans are probably different.

But I realize the difference between good versions of fighters facing each other and old guys cashing in.


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## wow_junky (Jun 21, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> Are they really better wins than Froch (and eventually) Kovalev?


He hasn't beat Kov, but that would be a better win for sure. Kessler beat Froch and JC beat the best version of Kessler, not exact science I know but it's good enough of an argument


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## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> That's a gross overestimation of how often American fight fans think about Joe Calzaghe. He was one of many to beat up a shot Roy Jones and give an old Hopkins a bit too much to handle. No fight fans are hurting over Jermain Taylor or Chad Dawson doing the same thing either, because it wasn't dominant enough to be historic.
> 
> In the grand scheme of things, Calzaghe is a footnote in history. A decent fighter. HOF worthy even. But never as important or accomplished as Brit-influenced conversations about him make him seem.


I take real issue with you there. Came in here just to read, but I take real issue.

A footnote? A decade as champion, who left the division having finally cleared it up and he's relegated to a foot note?

For a decade, he was the super middleweight division. There's huge holes in what he accomplished during that period, but he is by no means, a foot note.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Felix said:


> He's a bit of an enigma in that his opposition was mostly mediocre or past-prime but there are enough intangibles in addition to the things we _*do*_ know about him to suggest he'd be a very tough night for anyone at 168, Ward included. By way of comparison: people would dismiss Fury if he'd retired after fighting Christian Hammer, and I think Calzaghe's a little similar.
> 
> He does come across as a bit of a wanker at times though, and for 46 fights his CV is pretty piss-weak.


Yeah that I can easily see, giving a tough or awkward fight. We've seen enough of him to know he's effective with his weirdness.



Stone Rose said:


> You can pick any fighter and make them look bad with a few gifs. Joe was a top fighter and Ward hasn't done enough to prove he would easily beat Calzaghe. If he beats Kovalev then yeah he is clearly better.


You'd be hard-pressed to find Ward looking so vulnerable or inaccurate at his peak though.

I think Ward's shown quite enough to suggest he could handle someone like Calzaghe. It's Calzaghe who hasn't shown, IMO, that he's able to beat a skilled talent like Ward in his prime.

Ward is one of those extremely difficult fighters with a very high plus-minus ration. I'm not talking compubox, but he's simply very hard to clock clean, and yet he himself is very accurate. Calzaghe never seemed terribly difficult to hit, and while he could set up accurate single shots now and again, his combinations were flappy. Ward would be tighter on the inside and craftier on the outside. A guy like Kovalev has advantages in height, reach, and fight-ending power, not to mention a style of footwork that perfectly accommodates those traits.


Chatty said:


> Its easy enough to pick out selected gifs.


It's so hard to pick ones that bad for Ward, especially at his peak, that I knew as soon as I posted those gifs that someone was going to post this early career knockdown by Boone, as if it said anything about his peak abilities.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> I take real issue with you there. Came in here just to read, but I take real issue.
> 
> A footnote? A decade as champion, who left the division having finally cleared it up and he's relegated to a foot note?
> 
> For a decade, he was the super middleweight division. There's huge holes in what he accomplished during that period, but he is by no means, a foot note.


Footnote may be a bit harsh, but SMW is not a historically deep division, and I think it was of higher quality before he came and after he left. There aren't really any mythical match-ups I could put him in to pick my brain with. He's not a significant part of any other great fighters' history. If I had to tell someone the history of boxing's greatness in 100 pages, Joe would be lucky to get a mention. Doesn't make him a bad fighter.


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## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

Stone Rose said:


> You can pick any fighter and make them look bad with a few gifs. Joe was a top fighter and Ward hasn't done enough to prove he would easily beat Calzaghe. If he beats Kovalev then yeah he is clearly better.


You can make Calzaghe look bad by showing his highlight reel


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Lunny said:


> You can make Calzaghe look bad by showing his highlight reel


Refs clearly on the take


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

wow_junky said:


> He hasn't beat Kov, but that would be a better win for sure. Kessler beat Froch and JC beat the best version of Kessler, not exact science I know but it's good enough of an argument


So the best victory in Kesslers career came after he lost to Ward?


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> I take real issue with you there. Came in here just to read, but I take real issue.
> 
> A footnote? A decade as champion, who left the division having finally cleared it up and he's relegated to a foot note?
> 
> For a decade, he was the super middleweight division. There's huge holes in what he accomplished during that period, but he is by no means, a foot note.


Keep in mind I'm older than the SMW division and it was not a haven for talent. Heavy, middle, and welter are the premier divisions in boxing history. Fair or not, little guys, light heavy, etc. get overlooked.

Michael Spinks, for example, accomplished more than Joe Cal and is a far superior overall fighter, a legitimate pound for pound ATG. However, even he would likely be considered a footnote by a lot of people. He didn't rule a glamour division and there were far brighter stars during his era.

Doesn't mean Joe didn't create a lot of new fans and mean a lot to the people in the UK. Enjoy the memories, but have some perspective.


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## wow_junky (Jun 21, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> So the best victory in Kesslers career came after he lost to Ward?


Yes, do you disagree that JC beat the better version of Kessler? Or do you see Ward's win over Kessler better than JCs win over BHop?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Lunny said:


> You can make Calzaghe look bad by showing his highlight reel


Truly and consistently atrocious refereeing.


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## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Truly and consistently atrocious refereeing.


British officiating master class. Someone should put together a "best f british boxing officiating" compilation video. One of my favourites is when Enzo Macarinelli got hurt and the timekeeper just stopped the round like a minute early.

:rofl go to 13:45






We are GOAT


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## chibelle (Jun 5, 2013)

Lunny said:


> British officiating master class. Someone should put together a "best f british boxing officiating" compilation video. One of my favourites is when Enzo Macarinelli got hurt and the timekeeper just stopped the round like a minute early.
> 
> :rofl go to 13:45
> 
> ...


Germany and Texas would like to fight for GOAT status. 
But Calzaghe's refs are GOAT.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

wow_junky said:


> Yes, do you disagree that JC beat the better version of Kessler? Or do you see Ward's win over Kessler better than JCs win over BHop?


It was the same version. What changed? Was he in some tough fights between Calzaghe and Ward?

Simply put, even at a green 24 Ward was a more complete fighter than Calzaghe, as to Ward largely dominated and Calzaghe vs Kessler was more competitive.


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## Oli (Jun 6, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> I just doubt this fight would happen. Joe would want the crown jewels and have "hand injuries" while Ward would battle his promoter over the color of the fighters underwear.
> 
> If it did happen, Joe's workrate would be incredible but he had zero power and Andre is a master at adjustments. A very close, controversial decision in which Joe lands a lot of meaningless punches and Andre lands the more accurate punches.
> 
> Since Ward hasn't lost in decades I have to go with him. Narrowly.


Zero power? He had more than Ward. Calzaghes power disminished as his hands fell apart but he still had more bang than feather Ward.

Prediction- Calzaghe slaps the shit out of him.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Oli said:


> Zero power? He had more than Ward. Calzaghes power disminished as his hands fell apart but he still had more bang than feather Ward.
> 
> Prediction- Calzaghe slaps the shit out of him.


I've seen Joe's "knock outs" and nobody gets hurt at all. Jones had a paper chin by the time they fought and lasted the full 12. I see speed, but not power.

Andre doesn't have a ton, either. Enough to keep guys off him but that's it. He is facing, on average, significantly better opposition, though. Guys who are nearer their primes than the Eubanks, Jones, Hopkins, etc. that Joe faced.


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

how boring would that fight be


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

nuclear said:


> how boring would that fight be


It would be UGLY as all hell.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

I have no idea what kind of picture people are painting in their minds to justify Calzaghe outlanding Ward. He's less accurate and less defensively sound. How and why would that happen?


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## KO-KING (Nov 9, 2014)

How in the hell would Andre ward keep up the pace with jc for 12 rounds for him to take a decision, jc edges andre for me at his best, he was quiet poor vs bums and often fought with injuries against crapper fighters though... Andre ain't one of them


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## KO-KING (Nov 9, 2014)

Bogotazo said:


> I have no idea what kind of picture people are painting in their minds to justify Calzaghe outlanding Ward. He's less accurate and less defensively sound. How and why would that happen?


Sure ward would land like 30% compared to jc 20...but one threw 1000 punches whilst other throws 300


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## DirtyDan (May 25, 2013)

wow_junky said:


> He hasn't beat Kov, but that would be a better win for sure. Kessler beat Froch and JC beat the best version of Kessler, not exact science I know but it's good enough of an argument


How did JC beat the best version of Kessler? Kessler was injured going in that bout, multiple rumors and sources claiming he injured his hand.

http://www.livefight.com/news.php?news_id=314&y=2007&m=10
The real story of this coming weekend's battle to unify three world championship belts is hidden in the clenched fists of Calzaghe's Danish rival for supremacy at their poundage.

Mikkel Kessler is believed to be shielding a hand so damaged that he has been unable to spar for two weeks and is not expected to do so before climbing through the ropes at Cardiff's Millennium Stadium in the early hours of Sunday morning.

Camp Kessler are playing down whispered reports of the injury and, bone deep though the bruising is said to be, it will not jeopardise their man's appearance before the most populous fight crowd ever assembled under one roof in Britain â€" 50,000 and rising under Frank Warren's vigorous, Barnum-esque promoting.

However, this revelation will offer hugely relevant encouragement to Calzaghe and all those betting heavily on the Welshman to add Kessler's WBC and WBA titles to his collection.

2 years later, Kessler fights a green Ward in the s6 and gets his ass handed to him in more dominant fashion, then would later go on to win the belt again by beating Froch, the best win of his career.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> It would be UGLY as all hell.


May end up THIS ugly.


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

rjjfan said:


> May end up THIS ugly.


:lol:


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

KO-KING said:


> How in the hell would Andre ward keep up the pace with jc for 12 rounds for him to take a decision, jc edges andre for me at his best, he was quiet poor vs bums and often fought with injuries against crapper fighters though... Andre ain't one of them


By controlling Calzaghe and shutting down his offense. Ward has great tactics against southpaws, his lead hand shuts down the southpaw right jab and makes his opponent pause while he feints and sets up shots.










That would severely impede Calzaghe's control of distance at long range, which leaves Ward to have his way with him on the inside. Joe almost surrenders at close quarters.










Whenever someone brings up volume as the key to winning a fight against a superior skilled fighter, I don't buy it. 9 times out of 10 the superior skilled fighter finds a way to reduce that volume, whether by control of distance, spoiling, their own pressure, or countering well enough to make the opponent hesitate. Ward does all of those things very well. Froch threw almost as much as Calzaghe did against Hopkins and still lost handily. Ward is not a fighter who gets overwhelmed or flustered at activity because he's not a strictly outside fighter, he can stand his ground and still be defensively sound. Ward would just roll with/catch those inaccurate combos and come back with the cleaner work. Those wide punches in bunches would be doing Ward a favor.




















http://imgur.com/height%3D329%3Bid%3Dvl51vFY%3Btype%3Dgifv%3Bwidth%3D503


You need more than a thousand slaps to beat Ward and Calzaghe doesn't have much else.


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## Kieran (Jun 6, 2012)

It's funny, when Ward was in his prime he would always lose these mythical match-up polls against Calzaghe. Now that he has visibly declined and barely done anything for five years, he always comes out on top. Riddle me that one.


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## KO-KING (Nov 9, 2014)

Bogotazo said:


> By controlling Calzaghe and shutting down his offense. Ward has great tactics against southpaws, his lead hand shuts down the southpaw right jab and makes his opponent pause while he feints and sets up shots.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Calzaghe was much much more than a thousand slaps

And you keep posting gifs like they show anything

Dawson was drained to shit and gun shy

Bhop was a top fighter still near his prime and he clearly lost the fight as he couldn't keep up the pace and couldn't keep off jc jab

Froch is slow as shit, can't adapt


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

KO-KING said:


> Calzaghe was much much more than a thousand slaps


I'm willing to hear it. He was quick, busy, awkward. What else?



KO-KING said:


> And you keep posting gifs like they show anything
> 
> Dawson was drained to shit and gun shy


They show Ward's tactical preparedness to deal with a Southpaw, Calzaghe's vulnerability at close quarters, Ward's dominance there, and Ward's ability to evade and counter wide shots. I've yet to see you give any reason Calzaghe would beat Ward.



KO-KING said:


> Bhop was a top fighter still near his prime and he clearly lost the fight as he couldn't keep up the pace and couldn't keep off jc jab


Hopkins was 43, it was impossible for him to be in his prime. That's an absurd assertion. He did not clearly lose the fight, which was very close, Hopkins landed the cleaner punches. He couldn't keep up the pace because he had old legs. That's why Dawson and Taylor were able to have similar success pushing him back at range. Ward's reflexes and movement are on another level while the IQ and skill-set is not so far behind.



KO-KING said:


> Froch is slow as shit, can't adapt


Nobody is equating them, but both he and Calzaghe threw wide and Ward is ace at throwing the tighter shots on response. Volume is the only argument brought up thus far and as I just showed by comparing Calzaghe and Froch's numbers against Hopkins and Ward, there's not a huge difference and both show a vulnerability to being countered by the more accurate and defensively sound fighter.


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## KO-KING (Nov 9, 2014)

Bogotazo said:


> I'm willing to hear it. He was quick, busy, awkward. What else?
> 
> They show Ward's tactical preparedness to deal with a Southpaw, Calzaghe's vulnerability at close quarters, Ward's dominance there, and Ward's ability to evade and counter wide shots. I've yet to see you give any reason Calzaghe would beat Ward.
> 
> ...


Jc was very good at adapting, he always changed things up when one thing wasn't working, you keep mentioning wide shots, like jc only threw wide shots, he only threw them when he felt comfortable and most of the time they were targeted at the body not head and ward wouldn't be able to counter Calzaghe like froch, he had an excellent 1 2, which would give ward trouble all night, his foot work was excellent and he could move in and out and that would trouble ward.

Wards the better inside fighter true, but Calzaghe is the better outside fighter and he would dominate there and in the middle it'll be ugly as hell and neither will look good in the middle, and jc had a solid chin there's no way of getting around this would be a 50/50 fight and in a 50/50 fight am backing the guy who can steal rounds down the stretch and ward doesn't have the best engine.

No one is saying ward can't deal with southpaws, he can, but Dawson ain't half the fighter Calzaghe is, especially not the version ward fought


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

KO-KING said:


> Jc was very good at adapting, he always changed things up when one thing wasn't working,


I've heard this said a lot, but don't know of many examples. Mind mentioning some?



KO-KING said:


> you keep mentioning wide shots, like jc only threw wide shots, he only threw them when he felt comfortable and most of the time they were targeted at the body not head and ward wouldn't be able to counter Calzaghe like froch,


But he threw plenty of wide shots against Hopkins in a fight that was too close to be comfortable in. That's why I posted those gifs. Calzaghe's combinations were often wide and slapping.


























Kessler did it, Hopkins did it, repeatedly, I'm sure Ward could take advantage of the same thing.



KO-KING said:


> Jc was very good at adapting, he always changed things up when one thing wasn't working,


I've heard this said a lot, but don't know of many examples. Mind mentioning some?



KO-KING said:


> he had an excellent 1 2, which would give ward trouble all night, his foot work was excellent and he could move in and out and that would trouble ward.


That's his best asset in this fight, jumping in awkwardly with straight punches. But again, Ward's footwork is even better, and he's not easy to hit. It could trouble Ward, but beat him? I don't think Calzaghe has the defense or the control of distance to outland Ward with accurate shots.



KO-KING said:


> Wards the better inside fighter true, but Calzaghe is the better outside fighter


Not sure that's true. Ward's jab is better, his use of the lead hand is better, and his control of distance is far more precise.



KO-KING said:


> and he would dominate there and in the middle it'll be ugly as hell and neither will look good in the middle, and jc had a solid chin there's no way of getting around this would be a 50/50 fight and in a 50/50 fight am backing the guy who can steal rounds down the stretch and ward doesn't have the best engine.


But I just showed you plenty of gifs in which he and Froch are exchanging at mid-range and Ward gets the best of it with accurate counters and head movement. It's exactly in those moments that Ward would get the better of the exchanges. Do you think Calzaghe would be landing better in exchanges standing straight up and slapping while Ward bobs & weaves and turns into his shorter shots?

Ward had enough power to rock Kessler's and Froch's head back, he'd get Calzaghe's respect, and he certainly has no worse of an engine than Hopkins did. Again, an iron chin and sheer volume are not smart aspects to bank on. Chin, volume, and good straight punches aren't enough to make this a 50/50 fight. Ward is more well-rounded, harder to hit, more accurate, and more defensively sound.



KO-KING said:


> No one is saying ward can't deal with southpaws, he can, but Dawson ain't half the fighter Calzaghe is, especially not the version ward fought


Right, I don't think it's going to be as one-sided as Dawson was at all. But the fight shows Ward's skillset lends itself to neutralizing southpaws. Ward has fought as good or better opposition than Calzaghe and never struggled to adapt, while Calzaghe showed plenty of vulnerability in his best performances. There's no good reason to actually favor Calzaghe.


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## KO-KING (Nov 9, 2014)

Bogotazo said:


> I've heard this said a lot, but don't know of many examples. Mind mentioning some?
> 
> But he threw plenty of wide shots against Hopkins in a fight that was too close to be comfortable in. That's why I posted those gifs. Calzaghe's combinations were often wide and slapping.
> 
> ...


Firstly Roy Jones fight was a joke and no one in their right mind thinks Calzaghe tried his best in that fight after 4 5 rounds

Against Hopkins he did slap, but Hopkins didn't counter those side slaps majority of the time

Against Kessler he fought differently inside the first 4 then he did for the majority of the fight there after

He adjusted in the bika fight to adjust to his awkward style, something ward couldn't do vs bika, let's not ignore that ward struggled vs wide slaps vs bika (no I don't really think you can apply that thinking between bika and jc.. But since you want to approach it like this... I just want to show its possible too) then again you probably scored the fight like the judges and thought it was a masterclass

And what makes wards footwork better than Calzaghes, ward controls the distance better, but Calzaghe controlled the ring better and where the fight was taking place

You should watch the Hopkins fight back, it was competitive but not close, he lost most of the rounds second half of the fight... And yes it was to slight adjustments made by Calzaghe.. Let's not pretend Hopkins was shot when his next fight was one of his best ever... Then again you're not exactly reasonable on this topic, cause last time we were talking about a similar topic you tried to convince me that Sergio was prime vs cotto


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

KO-KING said:


> Firstly Roy Jones fight was a joke and no one in their right mind thinks Calzaghe tried his best in that fight after 4 5 rounds


Good thing that gif is from the very first round.



KO-KING said:


> Against Hopkins he did slap, but Hopkins didn't counter those side slaps majority of the time


He did enough to make the fight razor close, and Ward would take greater advantage. He would't be 43 years old. It's a consistent habit that works against him in exchanges against Ward.



KO-KING said:


> Against Kessler he fought differently inside the first 4 then he did for the majority of the fight there after


He went from throwing straight punches and falling in, to adding aggressive slap flurries behind them. He still got hit way too much throughout that fight, I don't know how anyone can watch that and not think Ward wouldn't counter and catch him repeatedly.



KO-KING said:


> He adjusted in the bika fight to adjust to his awkward style, something ward couldn't do vs bika, let's not ignore that ward struggled vs wide slaps vs bika (no I don't really think you can apply that thinking between bika and jc.. But since you want to approach it like this... I just want to show its possible too) then again you probably scored the fight like the judges and thought it was a masterclass


Ward did struggle a bit in that fight but he still won it handily. Calzaghe looked very awkward himself though and so many incidences show him struggling with clinch fighting and roughhouse tactics.Ward struggled too because he's not quite as long as Joe and came up against someone almost as good at the dirty infighting as he was.

It's his only less than stellar showing. He dominated better competition and never looks more hittable than Calzaghe does in his best wins. If you want to compare common opponents, Ward looked FAR better against Kessler than Calzaghe did against Bika.

No need to snidely accuse me of bias, I'm discussing technique here and nobody has given a good reason as to why Ward would struggle against the less defensively sound and less accurate Calzaghe. But I appreciate you at least making arguments.



KO-KING said:


> And what makes wards footwork better than Calzaghes, ward controls the distance better, but Calzaghe controlled the ring better and where the fight was taking place


I've never seen Ward not control the ring well. He cuts if off when he wants to, controls the center when he wants to, and only fights off the ropes when he feels like it, always getting the better of it. So the worst you could say is that it's as good as Calzaghe's, while his control of distance is superior. Not to mention the fact Ward's legs are springier (at least at 168), and is off balance lunging far less often. So overall, Ward's footwork is better.



KO-KING said:


> You should watch the Hopkins fight back, it was competitive but not close, he lost most of the rounds second half of the fight... And yes it was to slight adjustments made by Calzaghe.. Let's not pretend Hopkins was shot when his next fight was one of his best ever...


I just did watch it and was even less impressed with Calzaghe on second viewing. Horrid fight in which Hopkins took no risks on the outside and Calzaghe barely did anything except occasionally jab and flurry when he'd finally pin Hopkins while shelling up on the inside and hoping Cortez split them up as soon as possible. He'd make a spirited effort against Ward but he's just not dynamic enough for me to think he actually beats Ward. Let's not pretend Hopkins wasn't 43. Calzaghe did well against a great fighter but his strengths played into weaknesses against Hopkins that Ward doesn't have.



KO-KING said:


> Then again you're not exactly reasonable on this topic, cause last time we were talking about a similar topic you tried to convince me that Sergio was prime vs cotto


No I didn't, don't talk bullshit just because you want your beloved Joe to have a shot in the minds of fans on here. Stick to talking technique instead of looking desperate with personal attacks.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

This isn't too difficult, really.

Who has the better defense? Ward.
Who's quicker? Ward.
Who is more accurate? Ward. 
Who is better on the inside? Ward.
Who is better on the outside? Ward, or even. 
Who has better footwork? Ward, or even. 
Whose power likely bothers the other more? Even.
Who fought the better competition? Even.

Calzaghe has no technical advantages. Pure metrics like reach and output are higher, but they don't translate into better defense or more accuracy, so they're essential to his strategy but not likely to grant him the victory. Ward is just too dynamic, too skilled, too hard to hit, too versatile for Calzaghe to beat over 12 rounds.


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> Keep in mind I'm older than the SMW division and it was not a haven for talent. Heavy, middle, and welter are the premier divisions in boxing history. Fair or not, little guys, light heavy, etc. get overlooked.
> 
> Michael Spinks, for example, accomplished more than Joe Cal and is a far superior overall fighter, a legitimate pound for pound ATG. However, even he would likely be considered a footnote by a lot of people. He didn't rule a glamour division and there were far brighter stars during his era.
> 
> Doesn't mean Joe didn't create a lot of new fans and mean a lot to the people in the UK. Enjoy the memories, but have some perspective.


Fu


Bogotazo said:


> This isn't too difficult, really.
> 
> Who has the better defense? Ward.
> Who's quicker? Ward.
> ...


youre sleeping on calzaghe. Come back to me if ward beats kovalev cos if he doesn't he's far more of a foot note than calzaghe is . Wards best win is still froch who everyone knows would've been bounced around by calzaghe .

Calzaghe's win over Kessler was a thing of beauty as well whilst wards was an ugly hold and head butt fest . Conveniently forgotten.

Like I say if ward beats kov then you can talk about him being on a different level to calzaghe .

Huge ward fan here by the way


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Stone Rose said:


> youre sleeping on calzaghe. Come back to me if ward beats kovalev cos if he doesn't he's far more of a foot note than calzaghe is . Wards best win is still froch who everyone knows would've been bounced around by calzaghe .


No argument there, Ward is also a historical footnote as of now. I'm not sleeping on shit, I'm weighing resumes as they are. Does Calzaghe even have a best win? None stand out as truly remarkable.



Stone Rose said:


> Calzaghe's win over Kessler was a thing of beauty as well whilst wards was an ugly hold and head butt fest . Conveniently forgotten..


You mean Calzaghe got hit a bunch and Ward didn't. Ward's performance was more dominant and more of a masterclass. Aesthetics don't define greatness.



Stone Rose said:


> Like I say if ward beats kov then you can talk about him being on a different level to calzaghe .


I can say it now because he was more dominant and showed more skill against a similar if not better level of opposition. I'm not saying he's leagues above but he's indisputably harder to hit and more accurate.


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## KO-KING (Nov 9, 2014)

Bogotazo said:


> Good thing that gif is from the very first round.
> 
> He did enough to make the fight razor close, and Ward would take greater advantage. He would't be 43 years old. It's a consistent habit that works against him in exchanges against Ward.
> 
> ...


That fight wasn't razor thin close, and ward has similar stamina to a 43 year old Hopkins

My ass he won handily and kessler vs ward was slower than kessler vs Joe, and even then the ref was pure shit in ward fight

When have you seen ward fight someone with as good as footwork as Calzaghe or someone as quick as Calzaghe

And I'll admit I don't remember which one it was but you did argue that either Sergio was in his prime or his knees was fine... If it's the latter I take my initial content back as it's not relevant

Joe's the better outside fighter 
He's faster 
Throws more flurries that will steal rounds 
Footwork I personally believe is better, but I'll give ground and say even 
Calzaghe better work rate 
Calzaghe better stamina
Calzaghe better chin 
Even in terms of power 
Accuracy ward 
Defense ward 
Inside fighter ward

Competition probably even, I'll edge ward once he beats Kovalev, but ward has never fought a Calzaghe but Calzaghe fight similar in Hopkins

But of course wards better in every aspect apart from stamina in your mind

Anyone that thinks this fight isn't close is damn wrong

Am done with this argument, you take Hypothetical fights way to seriously and are way too stubborn to even talk sports to, don't pretend that makes you smarter just makes you annoying as hell on occasion


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

KO-KING said:


> That fight wasn't razor thin close, and ward has similar stamina to a 43 year old Hopkins


Many people think Hopkins won that fight. He landed the cleaner punches and got a split decision.

Ward definitely has a better stamina than a 43 year old Hopkins, you can't compare them. Ward has a higher output and expends more energy with his footwork.



KO-KING said:


> My ass he won handily and kessler vs ward was slower than kessler vs Joe, and even then the ref was pure shit in ward fight


What, you think Bika arguably won 7 rounds? No way.

You think the ref would have given Kessler any chance in hell? I might as well bring up half of Joe's BS stoppages. A few butts were not the reason Ward dismantled Kessler (any more than an injured hand gave Calzaghe his victory), and Calzaghe doesn't have a performance that systematic. Kessler being "a bit slower", which I don't even see as true, is not the reason Ward did so much better. He's a more complete fighter with the better defense.



KO-KING said:


> When have you seen ward fight someone with as good as footwork as Calzaghe or someone as quick as Calzaghe


I can say the same for Joe. The difference is Ward dominates much more frequently against a similar string of opposition.



KO-KING said:


> Joe's the better outside fighter


Nope, equal at best. Ward uses control with the lead hand better, has a better jab, controls the distance better, has a better straight to the body, and defends better on the outside. Calzaghe does have a better straight though and the reach advantage.



KO-KING said:


> He's faster


If he is, not by much. Ward's timing is better.



KO-KING said:


> Throws more flurries that will steal rounds


He's less accurate, which can easily carry more weight when Ward lands the sharper punches. That volume is reduced by Ward moving, getting on the inside, and stopping that right jab with his lead hand. Again, when someone brings up volume as the answer against a more skilled fighter, 9 times out of 10 it doesn't work because that volume gets reduced.



KO-KING said:


> Calzaghe better work rate
> Calzaghe better stamina
> Calzaghe better chin
> Even in terms of power


Again, all this just amounts to Calzaghe's chances being based solely on being busier. Froch had all these advantages and more against Ward given his power (which he trades the speed for) and look what it got him.



KO-KING said:


> Accuracy ward
> Defense ward


These are things that actually tell the story of the fight. Things like speed, power, reach, they mean nothing on their own. Defense is how often you get hit, accuracy is how often you can hit your opponent. If Calzaghe gets hit with more scoring shots than Ward in a majority of rounds, he loses the fight. You need serious power or dimensional advantages to overcome both a gap in defense and accuracy that Joe just doesn't have.



KO-KING said:


> Am done with this argument, you take Hypothetical fights way to seriously and are way too stubborn to even talk sports to, don't pretend that makes you smarter just makes you annoying as hell on occasion


I'm just debating with examples of technique, you're the one who tried to get personal about it and are now getting all mad. Sorry I made you upset.


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## Wordup (May 16, 2013)

Thread title says prime Prime Joe. he wasn't at his prime fighting Hopkins or Jones, even when fighting Lacy he had china hands. His prime is going back to when he could throw a punch without breaking something.

I'd say a 50/50 fight, with a younger pre fucked up hands Joe.


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## Jimbob (May 26, 2013)

I remember copping a load of shit on ESB for saying that Ward was going to beat Kessler and people were going to be shocked at how easy he'd do it. Calzaghe wouldn't be too much different, Ward is simply a level above.


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## knowimuch (May 9, 2014)

Lot of heresy regarding Calzzz in this thread


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## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

I once loved Joe and thought he could topple a prime RJJ, how times change, I'm not so sure his legacy has really aged all that well. I'd make Ward a fairly comfortable favourite although I think the fight could possibly go either way. People seem to bringing up Wards stamina but I've not seen anything to suggest it's terrible.


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## James14 (Dec 27, 2015)

Unfortunately for Calzaghe, he's pretty left with a legacy of ifs, buts and maybe's. Ward hasn't exactly made the most of his ability career wise either. But if he beats Kovalev then that shits all over anything Calzaghe can lay claim to.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> By controlling Calzaghe and shutting down his offense. Ward has great tactics against southpaws, his lead hand shuts down the southpaw right jab and makes his opponent pause while he feints and sets up shots.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn Bogo. I was somewhat on the fence, but nobody has given anywhere near as a good as a case as you're putting.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Damn Bogo. I was somewhat on the fence, but nobody has given anywhere near as a good as a case as you're putting.


pretty soon the wbf will be just you, bogo, a few cameo appearances by the worst poster here your buddy michigan warrior, and a few stragglers here and there

you can make a case that it has already come to that


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Stone Rose said:


> Fu


I made an articulate, well reasoned post. Joe is definitely a long way down the ladder from Spinks in boxing history and Spinks is most noteworthy for being the first light heavy champion to win the heavyweight belt. Heck, most casuals only know him for getting KO'd by Tyson.

I'm glad Joe created a stir in the UK. I think a decent part of the red hot boxing scene in the UK started with him and Lewis.

But you'd have to be telling one hell of a story about boxing to get around to Joe's part.


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## chibelle (Jun 5, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> I made an articulate, well reasoned post. Joe is definitely a long way down the ladder from Spinks in boxing history and Spinks is most noteworthy for being the first light heavy champion to win the heavyweight belt. Heck, most casuals only know him for getting KO'd by Tyson.
> 
> I'm glad Joe created a stir in the UK. I think a decent part of the red hot boxing scene in the UK started with him and Lewis.
> 
> But you'd have to be telling one hell of a story about boxing to get around to Joe's part.


Not sure what is more cringe worthy, the overrating of JC or his slapping... Hum I mean.... Punching technique.

No -- it's his "KO" highlight reel. Most women can't get KO from a slap but JC's opponents apperantly can.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

chibelle said:


> Not sure what is more cringe worthy, the overrating of JC or his slapping... Hum I mean.... Punching technique.
> 
> No -- it's his "KO" highlight reel. Most women can't get KO from a slap but JC's opponents apperantly can.


I'm not a huge fan of Joe Cal, but I can appreciate the fact that he brought in a lot of fans, many of which stuck around.

Those fans over rating him is grating, though.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> pretty soon the wbf will be just you, bogo, a few cameo appearances by the worst poster here your buddy michigan warrior, and a few stragglers here and there
> 
> you can make a case that it has already come to that


The quality of posting will surely increase if that's the case. Hopefully you lead the effort.


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> I made an articulate, well reasoned post. Joe is definitely a long way down the ladder from Spinks in boxing history and Spinks is most noteworthy for being the first light heavy champion to win the heavyweight belt. Heck, most casuals only know him for getting KO'd by Tyson.
> 
> I'm glad Joe created a stir in the UK. I think a decent part of the red hot boxing scene in the UK started with him and Lewis.
> 
> But you'd have to be telling one hell of a story about boxing to get around to Joe's part.


I quoted by mistake , hence the ' fu '.


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> I'm not a huge fan of Joe Cal, but I can appreciate the fact that he brought in a lot of fans, many of which stuck around.
> 
> Those fans over rating him is grating, though.


Poor little brits thinking they know as much as us .

It isn't particularly over rating him to think he has a chance against ward. Ward has managed to do what you lot always belittled calzaghe with and done fuck all for years . 
I'll stick with what I said earlier if ward beats kovalev he will be clearly better than calzaghe. If he loses badly then he'll be more of a footnote than bogo claims calzaghe is.


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

DirtyDan said:


> How did JC beat the best version of Kessler? Kessler was injured going in that bout, multiple rumors and sources claiming he injured his hand.
> 
> http://www.livefight.com/news.php?news_id=314&y=2007&m=10
> The real story of this coming weekend's battle to unify three world championship belts is hidden in the clenched fists of Calzaghe's Danish rival for supremacy at their poundage.
> ...


Do boxers usually spar much in the two weeks before a fight ?

Also,Kessler said immediately after the fight that he wasn't injured.


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> No argument there, Ward is also a historical footnote as of now. I'm not sleeping on shit, I'm weighing resumes as they are. Does Calzaghe even have a best win? None stand out as truly remarkable.
> 
> You mean Calzaghe got hit a bunch and Ward didn't. Ward's performance was more dominant and more of a masterclass. Aesthetics don't define greatness.
> 
> I can say it now because he was more dominant and showed more skill against a similar if not better level of opposition. I'm not saying he's leagues above but he's indisputably harder to hit and more accurate.


When you say things like calzaghe had a thousand slaps and nothing else it makes you sound like you think he's leagues above. Maybe watch your wording bogo.

I think Wards great by the way .


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Stone Rose said:


> When you say things like calzaghe had a thousand slaps and nothing else it makes you sound like you think he's leagues above. Maybe watch your wording bogo.
> 
> I think Wards great by the way .


Yeah that was a bit harsh, I was responding more to the suggestion that volume was all he needed to beat Ward. Jumping in and out from the outside with varied straight punches is a better strategy IMO. Make it ugly from the outside and make Ward lunge. Hard to escape that inevitable clinch though.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Stone Rose said:


> Poor little brits thinking they know as much as us .
> 
> It isn't particularly over rating him to think he has a chance against ward. Ward has managed to do what you lot always belittled calzaghe with and done fuck all for years .
> I'll stick with what I said earlier if ward beats kovalev he will be clearly better than calzaghe. If he loses badly then he'll be more of a footnote than bogo claims calzaghe is.


Not belittling Brits. Ward facing Kovalev is something beyond what Joe ever attempted and ambition goes a long way with me.

Joe's awkward style would be a pain to deal with. I've always said that.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Stone Rose said:


> I quoted by mistake , hence the ' fu '.


I thought you meant "fuck you" and was shocked, haha. Thanks for clearing that up.

I know we differ sometimes, but that's part of the fun of being a fan.


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## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

Ward would make him pay for his wide wild punches, he'd counter the sh!t out of him...I respect Joe as a fighter but he gets his sh!t pushed in by Ward.


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## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah that was a bit harsh, I was responding more to the suggestion that volume was all he needed to beat Ward. Jumping in and out from the outside with varied straight punches is a better strategy IMO. Make it ugly from the outside and make Ward lunge. Hard to escape that inevitable clinch though.


Volume and the idea that Ward would fade badly enough to let Joe into the fight, Joe's best attribute would be his awkwardness for sure, it would be one hell of a messy fight, possible head clashes etc. It would be really interesting to see who would get the better of these exchanges, logic dictates that the fighter with the better technique would win these exchanges, Joe wasn't an ordinary fighter in that respect though. Would have loved to see this fight.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Still see Calzaghe winning.


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## errsta (May 16, 2013)

Trick question...Prime Calzaghe would only fight an old Ward which we have yet to see.


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## homebrand (May 21, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> That's a gross overestimation of how often American fight fans think about Joe Calzaghe. He was one of many to beat up a shot Roy Jones and give an old Hopkins a bit too much to handle. No fight fans are hurting over Jermain Taylor or Chad Dawson doing the same thing either, because it wasn't dominant enough to be historic.
> 
> In the grand scheme of things, Calzaghe is a footnote in history. A decent fighter. HOF worthy even. But never as important or accomplished as Brit-influenced conversations about him make him seem.


racist. reported.


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## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> That's a gross overestimation of how often American fight fans think about Joe Calzaghe. He was one of many to beat up a shot Roy Jones and give an old Hopkins a bit too much to handle. No fight fans are hurting over Jermain Taylor or Chad Dawson doing the same thing either, because it wasn't dominant enough to be historic.
> 
> In the grand scheme of things, Calzaghe is a footnote in history. A decent fighter. HOF worthy even. But never as important or accomplished as Brit-influenced conversations about him make him seem.


This


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## Powerplow (May 13, 2013)

Stone Rose said:


> You can pick any fighter and make them look bad with a few gifs. Joe was a top fighter and Ward hasn't done enough to prove he would easily beat Calzaghe. If he beats Kovalev then yeah he is clearly better.


True, but those few gifs are an accurate account of joe's horrendous style.


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## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> But he threw plenty of wide shots against Hopkins in a fight that was too close to be comfortable in. That's why I posted those gifs. Calzaghe's combinations were often wide and slapping.


Most times I think nicknames that fighters are crowned with via forums and boxing message boards are ridiculous but Calslappy was fitting.

He slapped. Quite often.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Seriously, Americans claiming Brits overrate their fighters is hypocritical as fuck.


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## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Seriously, Americans claiming Brits overrate their fighters is hypocritical as fuck.


cuz Jeff Lacy?


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Mrboogie23 said:


> Most times I think nicknames that fighters are crowned with via forums and boxing message boards are ridiculous but Calslappy was fitting.
> 
> He slapped. Quite often.











nice slap there


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## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> nice slap there


Obviously he didn't slap all the time but you're in denial if you are trying to say he didn't throw some slaps in his combos.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Mrboogie23 said:


> Obviously he didn't slap all the time but you're in denial if you are trying to say he didn't throw some slaps in his combos.


didnt try to say anything - just posted a clip of Calzaghe throwing a crisp left hand.

I think Calzaghe had better form before he hurt his hands.


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## Mrboogie23 (Jun 4, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> didnt try to say anything - just posted a clip of Calzaghe throwing a crisp left hand.
> 
> I think Calzaghe had better form before he hurt his hands.


:good


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## Powerplow (May 13, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> nice slap there


One of joes best wins, but I don't really rate it. Eubank abit over the hill by this point and if memory serves me right he took this fight on sort notice, 3 weeks out from a bout he was supposed to have at lhw.


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