# Floyd Mayweather, Jr. vs. Julio Cesar Chavez, Sr.



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

If there's a weight I feel JCC can win, it's 135 despite his incredibly short stint in the division (most notably his bouts with Edwin Rosario and Jose Luis Ramirez). He had a lot of quality wins at SFW, but cut a bit too rail-thin figure for my taste here in a 'fantasy fight' with Mayweather, I'm just not that confident he'd inflict the damage necessary to win but he filled out perfectly as a lightweight and was optimal both physically and skill-wise. 140 is even money IMO, and Floyd wins rather easily at anything above that.

Chavez was far too fundamentally sound to ever come out guns blazing, walking straight in and leaving himself open to a barrage of clean counters. His "relentless pressure" was more to do with his presence, technical ability to close distance and cut the ring with his offensive footwork. Textbook reactive to an opponents movement once he got within an arm's length-- a lot of mirroring, side stepping, hooking off escape routes, making an early investment to attack the body. He was selective with his shots, but he isn't going to let many opportunities go to waste: Once he's in range, the combinations are going to fly without a moments notice and they are hard, short and unpredictable. If he controls the geography of the fight, up's and keeps his work rate steady, he's got a great shot.

The aforementioned generalship would be a big ticket because while his style was practically built on breaking opponents down in tree-chopping fashion with the end game being an accumulation T/KO, we all know it isn't going to happen here. Floyd can be a grimey, tough little bastard when he has to and excels at every range near equally. It would be a complete drubbing if he managed to keep the fight on the outside for the majority, that's pretty obvious for a variety of different reasons. His combination of physical attributes and advantages, implementation of them and technique are just too great in comparison. I don't honestly think he would though... And Floyd is often even willing to put himself in positions that wouldn't favour him against an in-fighter of JCC's caliber (backing up and going to the ropes being the foremost example). We know that he isn't going to bring a tremendous amount of volume to the table either to give Chavez pause in the same manner as others as he works his way forward. I can't draw too many parallels between him and either Pernell or Meldrick.

On the otherhand, a (notoriously) slow start for Chavez and inability to ever find his rhythm and "rise the tide" could spell doom for him very early and make it look like an easy night for Floyd.






:hey


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)




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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :hey


Roger Mayweather still has nightmares about Chavez cos he took his balls.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Great topic Hands. It's interesting that you set the stage at 130. Closer to Julio's overall peak as a fighter than Floyd's, but allows Floyd more physical advantages than he'd have later in his career.

The question of ring geography is one of the principal ones. Floyd has never faced anyone as good as cutting a ring off as Julio is. But I tend to think that Floyd's footspeed makes him less susceptible to traditional ring-cutting maneuvers (although gradual pressure can work), and more susceptible to quick forward advances behind feints (like De La Hoya was able to provide). As you put very well, "a (notoriously) slow start for Chavez and inability to ever find his rhythm and 'rise the tide' could spell doom for him very early and make it look like an easy night for Floyd." I think it would mirror the Cotto fight in many ways. Floyd working his versatile jab in the early rounds, while Julio finds his rhythm and starts using his blend of offense and defense on the inside to his advantage. The question is whether that young version of Floyd, who spend much of his fight against the likes of Emmanuel Augustus against the ropes fighting him off of him, would then succumb rather than adjust, having a less than complete toolbelt he sported compared to later in his career.

Roger is no Floyd but it's always worth taking a look at those.


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## Vaitor (Apr 22, 2015)

Horrible matchup for Floyd...


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## TSOL (Dec 15, 2013)

1:55 :deal


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Watch the Castillo fight, jcc would murder Floyd at 130


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Vaitor said:


> Horrible matchup for Floyd...


No doubt mayweather gets beat, he's lucky he was in this era where it's universally recognized being a low level era and knowing when to take calculated retirements and pick the right fights.


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## Vaitor (Apr 22, 2015)

Doc said:


> No doubt mayweather gets beat, he's lucky he was in this era where it's universally recognized being a low level era and knowing when to take calculated retirements and pick the right fights.


Forget about eras... Chavez had the perfect style to beat Floyd and unlike Castillo he had way better skills... Pernell isnt even a comparison, he had better output than Floyd (and tbh, I think that by that time Julio's addictions were already a great factor)...


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## Elite (May 22, 2013)

Chavez. Too much pressure. Chavez will never let himself be in Floyds range, he'll be stalking him the whole fight in close range, once he gets Floyd to the ropes or corner he'll pick his shots and tear into him.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> Watch the Castillo fight, jcc would murder Floyd at 130


yeah he made Floyd work


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah he made Floyd work


holy shit, HBO is so annoying. They're just talking shit about Mayweather the whole fight. No wonder dumbasses think Castillo won the first fight with this biasedass commentary. Please, anybody go watch just the 12th round and tell me how Castillo could have possibly won that? Those jackasses Merchant and Lederman give it to him and that's just one example.

All this, Mayweather isn't a star, Mayweather is no Micky Ward, Mayweather is running too much, Mayweather lost his luster, Mayweather won't stand and fight, I gave Castillo that round for body shots he landed on the hip while the referee yelled break 3 times atsch


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Floyd is too quick and agile for JCC


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Great great fight, they could probably have a duology or a trilogy, thats how great i think these fights would be. 

Take the Chavez of the Rosario fight at 135, its an amazing contrast of styles. I think if anyone is gonna beat floyd at lightweight it will be an ELITE LEVEL pressure figjter. Someone that will eat all floyd has to offer. I figure Roger was a harder hitter with a straight right than Floyd. Someone who would push him back and destroy his body. Floyd is also very good on the inside and would try to land uppercuts in the pocket with JCC. Floyd would always be in the fight, trying to consistently counter but i think after a grueling fight he would end up getting broken down by Chavez's attacks and vicious pressure. 

Great fight though, two opposite styles.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> I figure Roger was a harder hitter with a straight right than Floyd.


Much harder.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> holy shit, HBO is so annoying. They're just talking shit about Mayweather the whole fight. No wonder dumbasses think Castillo won the first fight with this biasedass commentary. Please, anybody go watch just the 12th round and tell me how Castillo could have possibly won that? Those jackasses Merchant and Lederman give it to him and that's just one example.
> 
> All this, Mayweather isn't a star, Mayweather is no Micky Ward, Mayweather is running too much, Mayweather lost his luster, Mayweather won't stand and fight, I gave Castillo that round for body shots he landed on the hip while the referee yelled break 3 times atsch


That's what you're like though.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Not a very nice fight for Floyd stylistically.
Atleast he doesn't feint like Duran so getting Floyd to the ropes would take a 10 seconds instead of 2.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> That's what you're like though.


ok


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Mayweather UD


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

dyna said:


> Not a very nice fight for Floyd stylistically.
> Atleast he doesn't feint like Duran so getting Floyd to the ropes would take a 10 seconds instead of 2.


Exactly my thinking.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Much harder.


About as relevant as saying Gatti hits harder than Floyd


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

dyna said:


> Not a very nice fight for Floyd stylistically.
> Atleast he doesn't feint like Duran so getting Floyd to the ropes would take a 10 seconds instead of 2.


Not a very nice fight for Chavez considering the only fighter he fought with comparable outfighting skill beat him comfortably

Neither fighter has a stylistic advantage, it would be a contest of who is plain better


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

A wonderful match up. One thing I always loved about the Castillo fight (the first one that is) is around round 10 or 11 when it's clear Mayweather needs to do something besides stick and move, he stands right in front of Castillo and blasts away, slipping and throwing combinations in a way he hasn't in years. Makes me think he has a warrior earth underneath it all but maybe it was a hallucination. A figment in my minds eye.

One thing, even if you think Castillo is a stylistic foil for Mayweather, Chavez won't have Castillo enormous weight advantage. Castillo was ALINO- a lightweight in name only. On the other hand comparing Chavez to Castillo is like comparing Sviatoslav Richter to a regular pianist. They may be playing the same instrument but that doesn't mean the music is the same.

I haven't seen Pac-May yet but the reputed lack of action reminds me of an article the Ring did back in the day. It asked if Mayweather was becoming a new version of Roy Jones, transforming from a more fundamental, classical boxer into someone who used his exceptional gifts to render opponents incapable of fighting back. In retrospect of course this underrates Roy's boxing iq; in game theory the most unexpected move has the most utility and if you are that much faster than everybody else certainly it would be foolish to act predictable and give up an advantage. Anyway my point was Mayweather has adopted a Roy strategy, that is to limit activity in the ring. He's done it a different way, with more grabbing and subtle movement rather than with blinding counter punches and unorthodox feint but it's a winning move. Just thinking about it Mayweather has adapted to the loss of his gifts very well.

Anyway Chavez SD.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Not a very nice fight for Chavez considering the only fighter he fought with comparable outfighting skill beat him comfortably
> Neither fighter has a stylistic advantage, it would be a contest of who is plain better


Except Whitaker is a lot better on the inside than Floyd, and Floyd is also on the ropes for much longer and much more often than Pernell.
Against fighters that can bring non-stop pressure he's also extremely negative in the rematches.

Floyd is obviously uncomfortable under pressure.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> About as relevant as saying Gatti hits harder than Floyd


Uncle Roger once kayoed Floyd with a pad.

That was the reason for Floyd abandoning offense, Arum and heterosexuality - the key ingredients of his success.

So, that's a very relevant point.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> *Great topic Hands. It's interesting that you set the stage at 130. Closer to Julio's overall peak as a fighter than Floyd's, but allows Floyd more physical advantages than he'd have later in his career.*
> 
> The question of ring geography is one of the principal ones. Floyd has never faced anyone as good as cutting a ring off as Julio is. But I tend to think that Floyd's footspeed makes him less susceptible to traditional ring-cutting maneuvers (although gradual pressure can work), and more susceptible to quick forward advances behind feints (like De La Hoya was able to provide). As you put very well, "a (notoriously) slow start for Chavez and inability to ever find his rhythm and 'rise the tide' could spell doom for him very early and make it look like an easy night for Floyd." I think it would mirror the Cotto fight in many ways. Floyd working his versatile jab in the early rounds, while Julio finds his rhythm and starts using his blend of offense and defense on the inside to his advantage. The question is whether that young version of Floyd, who spend much of his fight against the likes of Emmanuel Augustus against the ropes fighting him off of him, would then succumb rather than adjust, having a less than complete toolbelt he sported compared to later in his career.
> 
> Roger is no Floyd but it's always worth taking a look at those.


Setting it at 135!

The 130 reference had to do with BBall and Zopi's quotes from the other thread and I wanted to clarify they were talking about it being his toughest fight at Super Feather although most could probably put that together themselves: Chavez obviously isn't the toughest match-up for him regardless of weight classes he's competed in. :lol: Not with monsters like Robinson, Hearns, Leonard, et al. It's certainly more fair to him though as he and Julio are naturally similarly-sized fighters. Floyd's athleticism and reach in comparison is grotesque though.



TSOL said:


> 1:55 :deal


This is probably one of my favorite Floyd interviews ever. He was dishing out crazy respect.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> About as relevant as saying Gatti hits harder than Floyd


I mean id say its relevant.

Chavez wont respect Floyd's power considering how he handled roger's. Roger was a legitimate KO artist. I think chavez would be all up in floyd's shit partly because of this.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Bullshit, Floyd is TBE. He told me so and his record is 48-0, that means he has never had any trouble with anyone. Did you know he beat Corrales @ 130? That makes him Sugar Ray Robinson at that weight. Money team all day. If Floyd isn't TBE then why he got all that money there? He got that hard word dedication thing going on, no other boxer has got that which is how come he unbeatable and is greater than Ali.
Floyd shut out Baldomir by using the sweet science of running and poking, and Baldomir is basically JCC. Floyd has the longer reach 72 inch versus 66 inch so science says that JCC would get rocked from the outside all night long baby. Floyd's hands hold up and he wins KO3, money team. Floyd has never even been hit really.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Whitaker is TBE.





dyna said:


> Except Whitaker is a lot better on the inside than Floyd, and Floyd is also on the ropes for much longer and much more often than Pernell.
> Against fighters that can bring non-stop pressure he's also extremely negative in the rematches.
> 
> Floyd is obviously uncomfortable under pressure.


He's also (obviously) a southpaw, possessed a higher work rate, utilized more awkward punching angles, had better lateral movement and his defensive genius was based predominantly on instinct, intuition and reflexes. Floyd's is centered on his guard and fundamentals, he doesn't break his technique. Whitaker was liable to throw his out the window at times and was by-and-large able to get away with it. He put himself at higher risk more often than Floyd, but it made him nigh-on impossible to predict and infuriating to deal with. That doesn't mean Floyd doesn't have the aforementioned qualities himself or that Pea lacked fundamentals, it's just the strongest things I take from their styles defensively. He wasn't a Freak on the level of Roy Jones, but he was similar in the sense that only Pernell Whitaker can fight like Pernell Whitaker. It wouldn't be a good move to try and teach a young amateur fighter to imitate that, you'd pick Mayweather 10 out of 10 times.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> I mean id say its relevant.
> 
> Chavez wont respect Floyd's power considering how he handled roger's. Roger was a legitimate KO artist. I think chavez would be all up in floyd's shit partly because of this.


First off, 154lb Cotto, Alvarez, Oscar, all respected Floyds power. Pacquiao who barreled through Cotto, Clottey, and Margarito was skittish and hesitant against Floyd after Floyd landed one right hand in the first round.

Secondly its not how hard you hit its how you deliver your punches, all the power in the world means little if your technique is bad or you aren't delivering your punches in a short crisp manner

Floyd stops most of the guys Roger stopped as well. Without the ko losses

If you think Chavez is waltzing through Mayweathers punches you're crazy


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## Vaitor (Apr 22, 2015)

MichiganWarrior said:


> First off, 154lb Cotto, Alvarez, Oscar, all respected Floyds power. Pacquiao who barreled through Cotto, Clottey, and Margarito was skittish and hesitant against Floyd after Floyd landed one right hand in the first round.
> 
> Secondly its not how hard you hit its how you deliver your punches, all the power in the world means little if your technique is bad or you aren't delivering your punches in a short crisp manner
> 
> ...


:rofl:rofl:rofl

Wait, You are serious! atsch

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Vaitor said:


> :rofl:rofl:rofl
> 
> Wait, You are serious! atsch
> 
> :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl


I dont allow anyone with under 1,000 posts to address me without permission.


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## Vaitor (Apr 22, 2015)

MichiganWarrior said:


> I dont allow anyone with under 1,000 posts to address me without permission.


Bullshit response from a typical nuthugger...


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Vaitor said:


> Bullshit response from a typical nuthugger...


Did I stutter?


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Chavez couldn't handle movers at any sort of level.


:lol:


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> That's what you're like though.





bballchump11 said:


> ok


You two still nip at each other? :lol:


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> You two still nip at each other? :lol:


he likes to ride my nuts from time to time


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Floyd is way too quick for JCC. Floyd UD.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Floyd is way too quick for JCC. Floyd UD.


Could very well be right tbh. Julio has no foot speed to speak of, very little agility, mediocre reflexes, completely ordinary hand speed. He was just a tremendously skilled, technical pressure fighter, one of the greatest ever on the inside, of the most committed body punchers of all-time and possessed a chin made out of granite.

It's almost surreal how much quicker Duran was of hand-and-foot in comparison even taking the 147 version compared to Julio at his lightest and leanest.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Could very well be right tbh. Julio has no foot speed to speak of, very little agility, mediocre reflexes, completely ordinary hand speed. He was just a tremendously skilled, technical pressure fighter, one of the greatest ever on the inside, of the most committed body punchers of all-time and possessed a chin made out of granite.
> 
> It's almost surreal how much quicker Duran was of hand-and-foot in comparison even taking the 147 version compared to Julio at his lightest and leanest.
> 
> ...


Only thing I'd omit there is reflexes. They weren't other-worldly but combined with his intuitive anticipation they were above average.

Yeah, Duran the sudden striker, the whirlwind of feints and aggression, really disappeared. From there he relied on his intelligence and heavy hands; more of a boxer puncher who had to think more and seek control another way.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Only thing I'd omit there is reflexes. They weren't other-worldly but combined with his intuitive anticipation they were above average.
> 
> Yeah, Duran the sudden striker, the whirlwind of feints and aggression, really disappeared. From there he relied on his intelligence and heavy hands; more of a boxer puncher who had to think more and seek control another way.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


>


:rofl


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> he likes to ride my nuts from time to time


Don't act like I don't give you credit as well though. That was a perfectly fair assessment, you are a Flomo, nothing wrong with that.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Could very well be right tbh. Julio has no foot speed to speak of, very little agility, mediocre reflexes, completely ordinary hand speed. He was just a tremendously skilled, technical pressure fighter, one of the greatest ever on the inside, of the most committed body punchers of all-time and possessed a chin made out of granite.
> 
> It's almost surreal how much quicker Duran was of hand-and-foot in comparison even taking the 147 version compared to Julio at his lightest and leanest.
> 
> ...


Well Floyd was certainly way too quick for Castillo and Maidana, who were extremely slow.

Chavez wins a decision against Floyd, let's be honest.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Well Floyd was certainly way too quick for Castillo and Maidana, who were extremely slow.
> 
> Chavez wins a decision against Floyd, let's be honest.


That would be great.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Floyd is like a conflicted James Toney, he wants to be on the ropes but he doesn't want to fight inside.
Though it seems like for Toney the ropes is a conscious decision while Floyd does it out of reflex. How much more often was Floyd on the ropes against Maidana than Toney against Holyfield?


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

Floyd via TKO. 2 Fast 2 Furious.

#TBE 
#TheMoneyTeam 
#MayVsPac2 
#Greatest130lb


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

Earmuff Defense would be enough against Julio Cesar Chavez.










On another subject, Floyd was incredibly tense in the first couple of rounds. The shot that (here) Pacquiao cracked him with, was not even that hard, but he went straight into earmuff (ala Roy Jones Jr) defense on the ropes. You noticed he did not stay in the intermediate range for a second longer the whole fight, dude wasn't taking any chances which although won the fight, made it for a stinker (considering the Pacquiao no-show) of a fight except for Round 11. 

p.s Pacquiao's shoulder seemed alright there :rolleyes, unless he literally torn the whole fucken thing off.


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

@*Bogotazo*

Considering your prediction pre-fight, were you shocked/surprised at the foot-speed difference from Floyd compared to Pac? I seriously thought Pacquiao would get there (only in round 4 & 6) but I thought he could stay there and do more damage, not like dirty Maidana, but a guy who could close the gap. Floyd's legs at 38? I was like fuck he ain't shot. :lol:

@*Hands of Iron*

Who's the better feinter between JCC & Duran? Ya'll know Floyd relies on those god-given reflexes, and considering there isn't a master feinter at Welter in this particular era atm. Would Floyd the more offensive oriented combination puncher at 130lb help him or hurt him against Chavez?


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

tezel8764 said:


> @*Bogotazo*
> 
> Considering your prediction pre-fight, were you shocked/surprised at the foot-speed difference from Floyd compared to Pac? I seriously thought Pacquiao would get there (only in round 4 & 6) but I thought he could stay there and do more damage, not like dirty Maidana, but a guy who could close the gap. Floyd's legs at 38? I was like fuck he ain't shot. :lol:
> 
> ...


It's not even a little bit close.
Duran's arguably the best feinter of all time.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

He's right mate, absolutely no contest. Duran often closed distance via feinting and exceptionally/deceptively quick foot speed. Chavez took the more fundamental approach that was outlined a bit in the OP. Floyd opening up wouldn't exactly be to his benefit, but it's the only way he's winning and he _will_ do what he needs to in order to get it or lose trying. An overtly negative strategy against JCC just isn't enough to get the job done. For some reason, people suggest he struggled with movers when he didn't pull off his usual, inevitable stoppage victory. Not really, they lost pretty much every round. Whitaker didn't beat him due to movement -- certainly had a place in doing so, but he mixed it up in Chavez's office as well. And got the better of it.



dyna said:


> It's not even a little bit close.
> Duran's arguably the best feinter of all time.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> Duran's arguably the best feinter of all time.


Ain't shit compared to Park.

Not even in the same universe as Pat "Hell" Cowdell.



Hands of Iron said:


> For some reason, people suggest he struggled with movers when he didn't pull off his usual, inevitable stoppage victory.





Bill Jincock said:


> Incidentally, Chavez rep for being one of the all-time greats at ring-cutting...he didn't really have to work too hard to get that and fight many good movers did he? a faded Castillo that no longer had the same legs, a washed up, "only here for the money" Lonnie Smith, John Duplesis...well Frankie Randall moved well against him, but that's no example to use of greatness.or the Pea fight where he was often turned with ease(no shame there mind you).
> 
> You would think he had easily cornered and widely beaten various master boxers to get that kind of credit, but no almost all of the genuinely very good fighters he fought took him on at centre-ring for the most part.





Lester1583 said:


> That's true but the more important question we need to ask ourselves is how many Jim Watt's headbutts would it take to make Chavez look like Salma Hayek?


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Ain't shit compared to Park.
> 
> Not even in the same universe as Pat "Hell" Cowdell.


Lonnie Smith fight was a chore to watch. Chavez dropped his hands and just fucking glared at him in disgust at one point in the first round.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Ain't shit compared to Park.
> 
> Not even in the same universe as Pat "Hell" Cowdell.







I also liked how the other Park fainted against that Egyptian god.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Well Floyd was certainly way too quick for Castillo and Maidana, who were extremely slow.
> 
> Chavez wins a decision against Floyd, let's be honest.


People love to throw out castillo I when Floyd wasn't 100 percent and he chose to mix it up with Maidana I. We could easily point out at the time JCC struggled and then. At least Floyd wins in his struggles... can't say the same about JCC can we?


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> People love to throw out castillo I when Floyd wasn't 100 percent and he chose to mix it up with Maidana I. We could easily point out at the time JCC struggled and then. At least Floyd wins in his struggles... *can't say the same about JCC can we?*


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

dyna said:


>


What about the other times? Is he undefeated? yeah ok then.
You don't see Floyd struggled with so and so, so therefore argument is extremely flawed?


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

JCC struggled against Whitaker and Taylor. JCC losing to me a better fighter in Floyd is the obvious pick here. Pot shot to an UD.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> What about the other times? Is he undefeated? yeah ok then.
> You don't see Floyd struggled with so and so, so therefore argument is extremely flawed?


When was the last time Floyd was 87-0?


Spoiler



Not like undefeated records mean shit


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

dyna said:


> When was the last time Floyd was 87-0?
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Have you compared their records of their first 48???? You can't be serious....


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Have you compared their records of their first 48???? You can't be serious....


k


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Lonnie Smith fight was a chore to watch. Chavez dropped his hands and just fucking glared at him in disgust at one point in the first round.


Chavez dropped his hands signaling he wants to quit - he was disgusted at himself.


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Chavez was too much of a educated combination puncher, enough to win more rounds against Floyd Mayweather. Chavez UD.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

dyna said:


> k


Tony finna boxrec your ass to death. And anybody else who gets in his way.

These threads always go like that... BBall observes and makes very vague, innocuous comments, MW gets heavily involved for a few pages and holds his own with strong educated opinions and then TLiang drops BoxRec Bombs all over enraged incarnations of Bogotazo and Flea Man. It goes on for page-after-page, for several days. Last time he was even painting homosexual sequences of them together based on a Harry Greb newspaper clipping.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> People love to throw out castillo I when Floyd wasn't 100 percent and he chose to mix it up with Maidana I. We could easily point out at the time JCC struggled and then. At least Floyd wins in his struggles... can't say the same about JCC can we?


Chavez was injured against Lockridge. And simply outboxed him instead.

The master adapter was Chavez.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Chavez was injured against Lockridge.


Would hope this is already well-known by now. I never bring up that fight without mentioning it :lol: And Julio has been _the guy_ for discussions for the last few months.


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Tony finna boxrec your ass to death. And anybody else who gets in his way.
> 
> These threads always go like that... BBall observes and makes very vague, innocuous comments, MW gets heavily involved for a few pages and holds his own with strong educated opinions and then TLiang drops BoxRec Bombs all over enraged incarnations of Bogotazo and Flea Man. It goes on for page-after-page, for several days. Last time he was even painting homosexual sequences of them together based on a Harry Greb newspaper clipping.


HOI: "I've got miracle lyrical capability all in me with the agility to escape a killer bee colony"


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Tony finna boxrec your ass to death. And anybody else who gets in his way.
> 
> These threads always go like that... BBall observes and makes very vague, innocuous comments, MW gets heavily involved for a few pages and holds his own with strong educated opinions and then TLiang drops BoxRec Bombs all over enraged incarnations of Bogotazo and Flea Man. It goes on for page-after-page, for several days. Last time he was even painting homosexual sequences of them together based on a Harry Greb newspaper clipping.


I usually get insulted by some no mark and I lose interest, however I enjoy reading your guys comments and learning


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Tony finna boxrec your ass to death. And anybody else who gets in his way.
> 
> These threads always go like that... BBall observes and makes very vague, innocuous comments, MW gets heavily involved for a few pages and holds his own with strong educated opinions and then TLiang drops BoxRec Bombs all over enraged incarnations of Bogotazo and Flea Man. It goes on for page-after-page, for several days. Last time he was even painting homosexual sequences of them together based on a Harry Greb newspaper clipping.


:rofl
you forgot the personal insults comes flying after the boxrec bombs, and fleaman posting of my videos


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tezel8764 said:


> @*Bogotazo*
> 
> Considering your prediction pre-fight, were you shocked/surprised at the foot-speed difference from Floyd compared to Pac? I seriously thought Pacquiao would get there (only in round 4 & 6) but I thought he could stay there and do more damage, not like dirty Maidana, but a guy who could close the gap. Floyd's legs at 38? I was like fuck he ain't shot. :lol:
> 
> ...


I was a bit shocked. From round one you could see the difference in sharpness in movement. Pacquiao was as flat footed as he was in Bradley 2, didn't expect that.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> I usually get insulted by some no mark and I lose interest, however I enjoy reading your guys comments and learning


There are times when I really enjoy your posts. If you were the 'good' version of yourself all the time, you'd be a phenomenal poster IMO.

You troll a bit too much though, but the knowledge is clearly there! Hope you can turn the corner.


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Tony finna boxrec your ass to death. And anybody else who gets in his way.
> 
> These threads always go like that... BBall observes and makes very vague, innocuous comments, MW gets heavily involved for a few pages and holds his own with strong educated opinions and then TLiang drops BoxRec Bombs all over enraged incarnations of Bogotazo and Flea Man. It goes on for page-after-page, for several days. Last time he was even painting homosexual sequences of them together based on a Harry Greb newspaper clipping.


:lol:


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> First off, 154lb Cotto, Alvarez, Oscar, all respected Floyds power. Pacquiao who barreled through Cotto, Clottey, and Margarito was skittish and hesitant against Floyd after Floyd landed one right hand in the first round.


None of those guys are quite on the same level of durability as Chavez I'd say. And they are all inferior opponents. No doubt Floyd has a certain snap to his punches but this would be different against Chavez.



> Secondly its not how hard you hit its how you deliver your punches, all the power in the world means little if your technique is bad or you aren't delivering your punches in a short crisp manner


Roger had great delivery with his combinations too though, and was landing all kinds of crisp HARD combos on Chavez, especially in their second fight.. The power still wasn't enough to ward Chavez off, so I don't think Floyd will do any better at trying to keep Chavez off.



> If you think Chavez is waltzing through Mayweathers punches you're crazy


I wouldn't say waltzing through, but he will be applying pressure like Floyd has never dealt with before, and on a technical level that would be different to the likes of Maidana or Jesus Chavez. I'm just saying that he will be able to deal with Floyd's power at 135 and come through it.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> I usually get insulted by some no mark and I lose interest, however I enjoy reading your guys comments and learning


I think this one is quite a bit different though. Usually in these threads it's Floyd up against an SRL or Duran and there's a hefty amount of ATG and Resume talk involved to stack the deck against him. That doesn't really work with Chavez: His best wins were Meldrick Taylor, Edwin Rosario, Rocky Lockridge, Mario Martinez, Jose Luis Ramirez. Hector Camacho and Uncle Roger (x2) right there on the peripheral. While MT certainly had ATG potential, was a tremendously successful amateur, had achieved top P4P status at the pro level and possessed the fastest hands known to man, it isn't quite the same thing as beating a prime Ray Leonard or a quartet consisting of Thomas Hearns, Wilfred Benitez, Marvin Hagler and Roberto Duran.

For the record, I did have JCC winning rnds 2, 10, 11 and 12 (w/ the thunderous right hand that dropped and shook him to his core), so yeah Taylor would've won, but it wasn't the total shutout version of events that HBO paints. Rosario wasn't even yet 25-years-old at the time and was one of the most devastating punchers of the era, on the way back up after splitting a pair of fights with Jose Luis Ramirez (1984 Fight of the Year) and favored to beat Chavez who was making his 135 debut but perhaps just a bit diminished post-hand surgery. Come to think of it, Edwin Rosario vs. Jose Luis Castillo [one of Floyd's very best win(s)] would be scintillating as fuck. Comparable level range right there to put it in perspective. Nobody today knows who Lockridge or Martinez really are. At the time and during Chavez's era, top level fighters who could give anyone hassle. Lockridge was robbed against Wilfredo Gomez full stop and beat Eusebio Pedroza in their first fight IMO, I yet to watch the second one. That is/would already be HOF level resume material. Mario Martinez's best win was Azumah Nelson, but boxrec wouldn't tell somebody that.

Chavez and Floyd is just an all-around great comparison. They draw a lot for themselves from their level of in-ring skill and ability, resume depth and dominant consistency. Come back @bballchump11 :cry This isn't a Floyd bashing thread, I wouldn't let it become one.



SJS20 said:


> :lol:


You're picking Floyd here, right?


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I think this one is quite a bit different though. Usually in these threads it's Floyd up against an SRL or Duran and there's a hefty amount of ATG and Resume talk involved to stack the deck against him. That doesn't really work with Chavez: His best wins were Meldrick Taylor, Edwin Rosario, Rocky Lockridge, Mario Martinez, Jose Luis Ramirez. Hector Camacho and Uncle Roger (x2)


Ahem... Laporte, Alli, Castillo, and lopez as well :deal


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> Ahem... Laporte, *Alli*, Castillo, and lopez as well :deal


:rofl






Poor bastard. That wasn't a bad stoppage, it was an inevitable one and based on mercy. The overhead camera replay between rounds is sweet. Awesome fucking fighter. Haugen too, what an absolute beat down.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

@Hands of Iron

What do you think about his performance against Francisco Tomas Da Cruz?? One of his lesser known fights, but one of my all time favorite performances by Julio. His hand speed and accuracy were ridiculous on that fight.


----------



## TSOL (Dec 15, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> he chose to mix it up with Maidana I


lil floyd seriously wouldn't have fought him if he wore cleto reyes. what a ***


----------



## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

Its floyds fight to lose, hes got everything he needs to beat JCC jr, hes the better fighter. Coupled with JCC Jr's slow start, that puts him up on rounds and now up to JCC to gain back after Mayweather has had time figuring him out. If mayweather gets injured or fights the wrong fight (using less movement or too low output) then he can lose on the cards. I would pick mayweather to win a rematch after correcting those mistakes.


----------



## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

tezel8764 said:


> Earmuff Defense would be enough against Julio Cesar Chavez.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[email protected] celebrity casuals in the background standing up and cheering for ineffective aggression. noobs.


----------



## Vaitor (Apr 22, 2015)

elterrible said:


> Its floyds fight to lose, hes got everything he needs to beat JCC jr, hes the better fighter. Coupled with JCC Jr's slow start, that puts him up on rounds and now up to JCC to gain back after Mayweather has had time figuring him out. If mayweather gets injured or fights the wrong fight (using less movement or too low output) then he can lose on the cards. I would pick mayweather to win a rematch after correcting those mistakes.


Err... the thread is about a fantasy match between JCC Sr. and Floyd, no JCC Jr...


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> @Hands of Iron
> 
> What do you think about his performance against Francisco Tomas Da Cruz?? One of his lesser known fights, but one of my all time favorite performances by Julio. His hand speed and accuracy were ridiculous on that fight.


The one at the outdoor venue? :lol: Yea, the slip-and-counter clinic at close range was just filthy in that fight. Da Cruz is at the bottom of his _notable_ 130 lb ledger of wins but phenomenal in terms of performances. He put in a lot of quality work at super feather (Lockridge, Martinez, LaPorte, Mayweather, Castillo, Da Cruz).


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Vaitor said:


> Err... the thread is about a fantasy match between JCC Sr. and Floyd, no JCC Jr...


Both had fights at lightweight though.

What about Guillermo Jones vs Mayweather @ 147 or 154?


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> The one at the outdoor venue? :lol: Yea, the slip-and-counter clinic at close range was just filthy in that fight. Da Cruz is at the bottom of his _notable_ 130 lb ledger of wins but phenomenal in terms of performances. He put in a lot of quality work at super feather (Lockridge, Martinez, LaPorte, Mayweather, Castillo, Da Cruz).


Yep..that one. :deal

Probably my favorite performance by Julio at 130lbs, the quality of the opponent not taken into consideration.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Yep..that one. :deal
> 
> Probably my favorite performance by Julio at 130lbs, the quality of the opponent not taken into consideration.


Well, it's not like Da Cruz was a bum or something. He was world rated at the time, at least. That's honestly the extent of my knowledge on the guy though, haven't seen any other fights of his. Just keeping it real.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> JCC struggled against Whitaker and Taylor. JCC losing to me a better fighter in Floyd is the obvious pick here. Pot shot to an UD.


Whitaker and Taylor were much different to Floyd, much much different. I shouldn't have to point out the differences to you. Both also were better combo punchers than Floyd for me.


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> I think this one is quite a bit different though. Usually in these threads it's Floyd up against an SRL or Duran and there's a hefty amount of ATG and Resume talk involved to stack the deck against him. That doesn't really work with Chavez: His best wins were Meldrick Taylor, Edwin Rosario, Rocky Lockridge, Mario Martinez, Jose Luis Ramirez. Hector Camacho and Uncle Roger (x2) right there on the peripheral. While MT certainly had ATG potential, was a tremendously successful amateur, had achieved top P4P status at the pro level and possessed the fastest hands known to man, it isn't quite the same thing as beating a prime Ray Leonard or a quartet consisting of Thomas Hearns, Wilfred Benitez, Marvin Hagler and Roberto Duran.
> 
> For the record, I did have JCC winning rnds 2, 10, 11 and 12 (w/ the thunderous right hand that dropped and shook him to his core), so yeah Taylor would've won, but it wasn't the total shutout version of events that HBO paints. Rosario wasn't even yet 25-years-old at the time and was one of the most devastating punchers of the era, on the way back up after splitting a pair of fights with Jose Luis Ramirez (1984 Fight of the Year) and favored to beat Chavez who was making his 135 debut but perhaps just a bit diminished post-hand surgery. Come to think of it, Edwin Rosario vs. Jose Luis Castillo [one of Floyd's very best win(s)] would be scintillating as fuck. Comparable level range right there to put it in perspective. Nobody today knows who Lockridge or Martinez really are. At the time and during Chavez's era, top level fighters who could give anyone hassle. Lockridge was robbed against Wilfredo Gomez full stop and beat Eusebio Pedroza in their first fight IMO, I yet to watch the second one. That is/would already be HOF level resume material. Mario Martinez's best win was Azumah Nelson, but boxrec wouldn't tell somebody that.
> 
> ...


First mate, you're spot on. The Chavez - Taylor fight has become one of the biggest myths in Boxing. People would have you believe that Chavez took a complete pasting for 11 rounds and 2 minutes. The truth is that Julio was losing a tough, competitive fight, and he pulled it out late. That stoppage doesn't happen, unless Taylor had taken the 11 rounds of punches which he'd received.

Mayweather - Chavez is a tough one. I've always favored JCC at 135, because he'd be so much stronger, and that version of Floyd wouldn't of yet developed the experience to necessarily compensate. The flip side is that Mayweather would fire more combinations and obviously be even quicker than he still is. Really it comes down to if you feel that Mayweather can do enough to evade/cull Chavez' attacks. Could he move around the ring for the whole fight without being cornered by Chavez? I doubt it. Julio had great craft too (Even if he couldn't hit a speedball to save his life...) so it's not a case of a Baldomir leaping in, or (and I hate to say it) a Hatton, who was banking on a small feint followed by his speed of foot to land a leaping shot. It's a fighter who understood angles, and how the correct placement of shots can soften a fighter.

Imagine the Castillo game plan, but with a fighter who then used his feet to open up shots to the body when Mayweather was trapped?

Above 135, I favor Mayweather. I think he gets a little stronger, and can hold his own a little better in close, whilst still keeping all his prior advantages in speed. Chavez has a harder time maneuvering a bigger Mayweather around the ring, and probably gets hit by too many in the process, because I don't re-call his defense being as good at higher weights.

Peak Chavez beats Mayweather because it's at 135.
Peak Mayweather? Depends on what you think was a peak Mayweather.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> phenomenal





Zopilote said:


> Probably my favorite performance by Julio at 130lbs


Unlce Roga's destruction is a better win than any of Floyd's super feather wins.
Not that anyone cares with all the talk of "The Consensus TBE at 130!"

Uncle Roga managed to hurt Chavez - he was that hard of a hitter.

Atypical fight for the measured Chavez - that leaping right hand almost made Hagler's hair grow back.

This preformance receives four Will Grigsby's out five from me.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

SJS20 said:


> The Chavez - Taylor fight has become one of the biggest myths in Boxing.


Not as big as the Myth of a Ruined Meldrick.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Ha imagine what Pretty Boy Floyd would do. Mayweather actually used to spar Frankie Randall in the 90's and said that he would could outbox at 17 years old.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Whitaker and Taylor were much different to Floyd, much much different. I shouldn't have to point out the differences to you. Both also were better combo punchers than Floyd for me.


Of course i know that i just find it funny that people kept throwing Maidana I, and JLC I as comparisons.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Unlce Roga's destruction is a better win than any of Floyd's super feather wins.
> Not that anyone cares with all the talk of "The Consensus TBE at 130!"
> 
> Uncle Roga managed to hurt Chavez - he was that hard of a hitter.
> ...


Pity Floyd was never able to live up to Roger Mayweathers lofty legacy, the Ko artist with the 48% Ko percentage.


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Atypical fight for the measured Chavez - that leaping right hand almost made Hagler's hair grow back.
> .


:rofl


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Pity Floyd was never able to live up to Roger Mayweathers lofty legacy, the Ko artist with the 48% Ko percentage.


If we could somehow get Reggie Johnson involved here that'd be fucking awesome.


----------



## Rockinghorseshit (Oct 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Not as big as the Myth of a Ruined Meldrick.


What do you mean? Meldrick was ruined pretty much after that fight from the beating he took? He slurs so much to this day.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Vaitor said:


> :rofl:rofl:rofl
> 
> Wait, You are serious! atsch
> 
> :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl


Wait, You are serious-sly retarded.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Tough fight for both. I think the physical advantage may play a part in FLoyd's favor here. Chavez would still be the smaller man.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Rockinghorseshit said:


> What do you mean? Meldrick was ruined pretty much after that fight from the beating he took? He slurs so much to this day.


It was his move to the 151.5 division that ruined him.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Rockinghorseshit said:


> What do you mean? Meldrick was ruined pretty much after that fight from the beating he took? He slurs so much to this day.


Meldrick was still a top fighter after the Chavez loss.

Moving up in weight and fighting big hard-punching welters/Norris is what ruined Taylor.

Getting stopped by Steele is not the same as getting brutalized by Espana and Terrible Terry at the weight you don't belong.


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Not as big as the Myth of a Ruined Meldrick.


Terry Norris had a lot to do with that.

You think he was the same guy after JCC?

Edit : Just seen your post above. :cheers


----------



## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

As much as I hate to agree with the Flomo retards on this thread I'd bet on Floyd. Yes Castillo gave him a hard time but Castillo was bigger and stronger than Chavez rehydrating upto 150lbs and was a world class fighter in his own right. Chavez is obviously better as a boxer but being a smaller man maybe doesn't push Floyd back as easily as Castillo did. The first fight could be scored anywhere between 8-4 Floyd to 7-5 Castillo if you give JLC every benefit of the doubt. But even if he you did give JLC the benefit of the doubt Floyd showed he didn't have major issues with the style in the rematch, which was as clear as day. Also while I don't entirely buy Floyd's 'injuries', he did have hand problems around this time and was complaining of pain in his corner. 

Ultimately I don't think Chavez can hit Floyd enough to break him down or outland him.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> As much as I hate to agree with the Flomo retards on this thread I'd bet on Floyd. Yes Castillo gave him a hard time but Castillo was bigger and stronger than Chavez rehydrating upto 150lbs and was a world class fighter in his own right. Chavez is obviously better as a boxer but being a smaller man maybe doesn't push Floyd back as easily as Castillo did. The first fight could be scored anywhere between 8-4 Floyd to 7-5 Castillo if you give JLC every benefit of the doubt. But even if he you did give JLC the benefit of the doubt Floyd showed he didn't have major issues with the style in the rematch, which was as clear as day. Also while I don't entirely buy Floyd's 'injuries', he did have hand problems around this time and was complaining of pain in his corner.
> 
> Ultimately I don't think Chavez can hit Floyd enough to break him down or outland him.


Heartbreaking.

But I can completely see the viewpoint despite some comrades disagreeing and they don't even fanboy Chavez like I do. I said something kind of similar in the OP as it relates to a fight at 130 lbs. Julio was almost stick-figure small at that weight, which didn't pose any particular problems for him against the quality fighters he _did_ beat, but Floyd is on a different tier. If he's going to do it at all, I think it'd be at 135 when he was a bit more filled out and still had fresh wheels. One advantage Mayweather ordinarily has that he wouldn't here - and I suppose vice versa - is in regards to Stamina. Chavez isn't going to run out of gas, he had every tool required of an elite pressure fighter. I look at them both as being perfectly suited to fight in a 15-round era.

Great post there too, SJS.



SJS20 said:


> Julio had great craft too (Even if he couldn't hit a speedball to save his life...)


:rofl


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Actually wouldn't be surprised to find Julio ran through a few speedballs during "The Summer of '93". He took a good deal of time off for his standards after dismantling Greg Haugen and Terrence Alli before stepping back in against Whitaker later that September.


----------



## Rockinghorseshit (Oct 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Actually wouldn't be surprised to find Julio ran through a few speedballs during "The Summer of '93". He took a good deal of time off for his standards after dismantling Greg Haugen and Terrence Alli before stepping back in against Whitaker later that September.


Heroin and Cocaine?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Rockinghorseshit said:


> Heroin and Cocaine?


I think he was actually 'only' into coke and booze.


----------



## Rockinghorseshit (Oct 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I think he was actually 'only' into coke and booze.


A speedball is a mix of Heroin and Coke.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Rockinghorseshit said:


> A speedball is a mix of Heroin and Coke.


I know what it is horseshit, I was taking SJS's comment in a different way to poke at Chavez's out of the ring lifestyle after he beat the piss out of Camacho and subsequently fell off hard within a year.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> Ha imagine what Pretty Boy Floyd would do. Mayweather actually used to spar Frankie Randall in the 90's and said that he would could outbox at 17 years old.


Well past his best!


----------



## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Heartbreaking.
> 
> But I can completely see the viewpoint despite some comrades disagreeing and they don't even fanboy Chavez like I do. I said something kind of similar in the OP as it relates to a fight at 130 lbs. Julio was almost stick-figure small at that weight, which didn't pose any particular problems for him against the quality fighters he _did_ beat, but Floyd is on a different tier. If he's going to do it at all, I think it'd be at 135 when he was a bit more filled out and still had fresh wheels. One advantage Mayweather ordinarily has that he wouldn't here - and I suppose vice versa - is in regards to Stamina. Chavez isn't going to run out of gas, he had every tool required of an elite pressure fighter. I look at them both as being perfectly suited to fight in a 15-round era.
> 
> ...


Bare in mind I'm a well known Mayweather fan who's been rating him far higher than most well before these Flomos signed up. 1 thing to note though is Floyd is naturally bigger. If you look at his tactics when he's generally felt most threatened, ie Pacquaio, Castillo 2 and DLH we can be fairly certain he'd be very negative in this fight too.


----------



## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

A lot of people love to think prime Chavez would beat Floyd. A lot of people are completely wrong.

Floyd would get a pretty easy UD.


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

Juiceboxbiotch said:


> A lot of people love to think prime Chavez would beat Floyd. A lot of people are completely wrong.
> 
> Floyd would get a pretty easy UD.


I could envision him getting a comfortable win 8-4 ish

But easy? No. Julio was too good of an infighter


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Well past his best!


I know :smile


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Juiceboxbiotch said:


> A lot of people love to think prime Chavez would beat Floyd. A lot of people are completely wrong.
> 
> Floyd would get a pretty easy UD.


Its all subjective and opinionated though so nobody is wrong here.

Id say youre wrong for saying that floyd will easily school chavez with no issues.. that makes no sense.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> *Bare in mind I'm a well known Mayweather fan* who's been rating him far higher than most well before these Flomos signed up. 1 thing to note though is Floyd is naturally bigger. If you look at his tactics when he's generally felt most threatened, ie Pacquaio, Castillo 2 and DLH we can be fairly certain he'd be very negative in this fight too.


So am I, there are just a handful of fighters that I like better (Duran, Chavez, Whitaker to name a few) and happen to often draw direct comparisons and debates involving Floyd. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm a bigger fan of SRL or Roy, but I'll usually draw the line and side with them in most arguments.


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> So am I, there are just a handful of fighters that I like better (Duran, Chavez, Whitaker to name a few) and happen to often draw direct comparisons and debates involving Floyd. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm a bigger fan of SRL or Roy, but I'll usually draw the line and side with them in most arguments.


why is it all 3 of the guys you mentioned are people AROUND FLOYD's SIZE that would give him trouble

In descending order of toughness for Floyd: Robearto(e), Pernell, Cesar


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## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Hands of Iron said:


> So am I, there are just a handful of fighters that I like better (Duran, Chavez, Whitaker to name a few) and happen to often draw direct comparisons and debates involving Floyd. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm a bigger fan of SRL or Roy, but I'll usually draw the line and side with them in most arguments.


Yo Hands, Chavez recently came out on ESPN and said he'd beat Mayweather :smile. You should check it out. It's in Spanish though. Pretty interesting stuff all around. They spoke about his legacy and all. Even your boy Whitaker was brought up :deal.


----------



## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Its all subjective and opinionated though so nobody is wrong here.
> 
> Id say youre wrong for saying that floyd will easily school chavez with no issues.. that makes no sense.


Well... I say "pretty easy." We all know Chavez was a bastard. But he doesn't get inside on Mayweather as much as he wants or needs to.


----------



## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

Great match up and I think Chavez takes it. Most fighters work rate slows down after so many counters from Mayweather, but Chavez had an iron chin and wouldn't be phased and would keep coming. I think he would break down Floyd eventually.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Juiceboxbiotch said:


> Well... I say "pretty easy." We all know Chavez was a bastard. But he doesn't get inside on Mayweather as much as he wants or needs to.


sorry but if Floyd wins it won't be easy it will be a war

i could easily see them splitting a trilogy or a duology, these would be classic fights

lesser fighters than Chavez have been able to get on the inside with Floyd, given Chavez's inside ability and his offensive footwork, skillset, I think he would rough Floyd up plenty of times.


----------



## p.townend (May 17, 2013)

Chavez was a great fighter but so is Floyd. For me Floyd is all wrong for Chavez and it would be a pretty one sided points win for mayweather.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> why is it all 3 of the guys you mentioned are people AROUND FLOYD's SIZE that would give him trouble


Because they're on the upper echelon of the most skilled practitioners in history IMO. And they're all - including Floyd - between 5'6-5'8 and similarly sized to me. Or were anyway, I'm into bodybuilding so no welter anymore. Manlets support Manlets. Once you get below Super Feather, you're talking _midgets and anorexics_ with a few exceptions here and there. 130-147 has always been my boxing sweet spot regardless.



Bogotazo said:


> Yeah, Duran the sudden striker, the whirlwind of feints and aggression





Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> In descending order of toughness for Floyd: Robearto(e), Pernell, Cesar


The most definitive one-fight peak in the history of boxing? :lol:



And that's in spite of looking god damn immortal skill-wise in recent fights against Carlos Palomino and Esteban DeJesus (III) the two previous years, making his presence known at 147 and capping off a run as Lightweight Don, respectively. Robearto(e) was never so ripped, conditioned and motivated in his life. "The Charles Manson" was the best look he ever sported. With the Marlboro-styled trunks n shit... Motherfucker. He was so furious he ate flush power shots from Sugar Ray Leonard like they were cornflakes but still slipped and rolled like 500 punches with his Advanced DefenseÂ© (I'll never forget that, Leon).


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Jesus Chavez gets his licks in.

But Floyd beats Julio Cesar Chavez 'easy'.

Some people DKSAB.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Jesus Chavez gets his licks in.
> 
> But Floyd beats Julio Cesar Chavez 'easy'.
> 
> Some people DKSAB.


I have to re-watch this fight.


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

Forgot to mention Armstrong

In descending order of toughness for Floyd: Robearto(e), Henry, Pernell, Cesar


----------



## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Pretty unoriginal thread sparked from another.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All I'm getting is bells and whistles. If there was ever an youtube interview that needed subtitles, that was the one.


----------



## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

If Pernell could beat Chavez (and he did despite the official D12), then Floyd Jr can. It's shame, JCC Sr. & Alexis Arguello are two of my favorites but I think Floyd Jr. would nullify both the latino powerhouses with his defense.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Mr. Brain said:


> _If Pernell could beat Chavez_ (and he did despite the official D12), then Floyd Jr can. It's shame, JCC Sr. & Alexis Arguello are two of my favorites but I think Floyd Jr. would nullify both the latino powerhouses with his defense.


How often did Pernells back touch the ropes against Chavez?
How often did Floyd's back touch the ropes against Jesus/Maidana/Castillo/etc.

Floyd and Whitaker aren't similar at all.


----------



## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

dyna said:


> How often did Pernells back touch the ropes against Chavez?
> How often did Floyd's back touch the ropes against Jesus/Maidana/Castillo/etc.
> 
> Floyd and Whitaker aren't similar at all.


Just say'n.


----------



## Vaitor (Apr 22, 2015)

Flea Man said:


> Jesus Chavez gets his licks in.
> 
> But Floyd beats Julio Cesar Chavez 'easy'.
> 
> Some people DKSAB.


This


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Mr. Brain said:


> If Pernell could beat Chavez (and he did despite the official D12), then Floyd Jr can. It's shame, JCC Sr. & Alexis Arguello are two of my favorites but I think Floyd Jr. would nullify both the latino powerhouses with his defense.


1. Whitaker beat chavez at welter, and arguably not at Chavez's absolute prime.
2. Whitaker does not= Floyd at all, thats just a lazy comparison since they are both pure boxers 
3. Nobody has an easy night with prime Arguello and Chavez


----------



## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> sorry but if Floyd wins it won't be easy it will be a war
> 
> i could easily see them splitting a trilogy or a duology, these would be classic fights
> 
> lesser fighters than Chavez have been able to get on the inside with Floyd, given Chavez's inside ability and his offensive footwork, skillset, I think he would rough Floyd up plenty of times.


Floyd doesn't do "war."


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Jesus Chavez gets his licks in.
> 
> But Floyd beats Julio Cesar Chavez 'easy'.
> 
> Some people DKSAB.


Jesus wasn't exactly a scrub. And he was definitely KO'd


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

This fight is so damn tough. I keep thinking how Chavez is a stylistic nightmare for Mayweather. But at the same time, if you had to pick a type of fighter to beat Chavez, wouldn't Mayweather fit somewhat into that mold? This is tough. And yes Floyd was a quick starter at the lower weights, while Chavez was slow. They gave Roger sweeping the first 3-4 rounds vs Chavez in the rematch.

I could see a trilogy between them at 135 like @tommygun711 said when they split fights.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Juiceboxbiotch said:


> Floyd doesn't do "war."


why dont you ask Jesus Chavez or Maidana or Castillo or Augustus that

Floyd has been in his fair share of dog fights.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Mr. Brain said:


> All I'm getting is bells and whistles. If there was ever an youtube interview that needed subtitles, that was the one.


He's basically bigging up Chavez because he got stopped in two rounds and quit on his stool in his fights with him.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> This fight is so damn tough. I keep thinking how Chavez is a stylistic nightmare for Mayweather. But at the same time, if you had to pick a type of fighter to beat Chavez, wouldn't Mayweather fit somewhat into that mold?


Someone like Crying Freeman Lockridge would be better.


----------



## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> He's basically bigging up Chavez because he got stopped in two rounds and quit on his stool in his fights with him.


Strange to hear a Mayweather bragging about someone other than themselves. Of the May clan Floyd Sr. is the worst; he accomplished the least and brags the most.


----------



## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> why dont you ask Jesus Chavez or Maidana or Castillo or Augustus that
> 
> Floyd has been in his fair share of dog fights.


The Chavez fight is the exception. Those other fights were not wars or dogfights.


----------



## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

dyna said:


> How often did Pernells back touch the ropes against Chavez?
> How often did Floyd's back touch the ropes against Jesus/Maidana/Castillo/etc.
> 
> Floyd and Whitaker aren't similar at all.


You're right, but it can be argued that Floyd's defense is just as, if not more effective than Pea's defense and he knows how to effectively land while implementing his defense. The only way he stays on the ropes unwillingly is if the opponent is a much bigger guy who likes to smother and fight inside. Most times on the rope Floyd is using the very skill that make him and Ali special; vision/spacial awareness. I don't see JCC consistently trapping Floyd and just teeing off and landing while taking flush shots. I think people underestimate the effectiveness of accuracy in shots that are delivered at very quick speeds and from any angle one's defense permits. If it wasn't so effective then I don't see how the guy hasn't lost yet.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Juiceboxbiotch said:


> The Chavez fight is the exception. Those other fights were not wars or dogfights.


ok whatever dude

castillo augustus and maidana brought it to floyd on the inside

Augustus-mayweather was definitely a dog fight


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

SJS20 said:


> Terry Norris had a lot to do with that.


Norris did the right thing.

Those porno-trunks of Taylor were beyond outrageous.

It was obvious they were controlling Meldrick's mind.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> Mayweather 119-109


Which pity round does Chavez win?


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Which pity round does Chavez win?


I can't even remember posting that.On reflection,I may have been hasty.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Someone like Crying Freeman Lockridge would be better.


:rofl


----------



## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

dyna said:


>


Too bad Chavez (and Steele) ruined Taylor in this fight. Taylor (pre Chavez) should be in conversations of fighters who might have been able to beat Floyd. 
Taylor was so fast and tough, he hit hard and had world class heart, his combos were out of this world. Had Steele let him go to the end of the fight he would have won and history would have given the kudos he deserved.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Mr. Brain said:


> Too bad Chavez (and Steele) ruined Taylor in this fight. Taylor (pre Chavez) should be in conversations of fighters who might have been able to beat Floyd.
> Taylor was so fast and tough, he hit hard and had world class heart, his combos were out of this world. Had Steele let him go to the end of the fight he would have won and history would have given the kudos he deserved.


He got stopped. Deal with it.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> It was his move to the 151.5 division that ruined him.


Those fights - G.Brown. L. Garcia, Superman Davis - they are readily available.

You can see Meldrick was still the same Meldrick - blindingly fast, careless defensively, hot-headed and average punching.

Those fighters weren't better than McGirt, even though they weren't bad fighters - the problem was they were bigger and punched harder - and Taylor was a guy who was a career light welter who began his career as a lightweight - in addition to not being a master boxer.

Still he was doing fine against them - then he moves up in weight and challenges Norris - brave and suicidal.

Norris destroys him.

Meldrick moves down in weight and gets destroyed in a brutal fashion by an underrated obscure Espana, who was more or less a Forrest/Quartey-level fighter.

Not the kind of stuff that prolongs fighter's career.

Hardly the case of "Baw god! Those 2 seconds saved his life! Poor Taylor was never the same after the great El Boolsheeto layed his hands on him!"


----------



## PJ. (Jun 6, 2013)

JCC Sr pulverizes Floyd. The epitome of a pressure fighter who gave absolutely no fcks about his opponent's punching power (Rosario, Roger Mayweather). Now I expect Flomitos to come to the rescue but if Maidana and Castillo had Floyd on his bike, imagine what an ATG at cutting the ring would do to Floyd. Also, Floyd has no knockout punching power like the Black Mamba. 

Chavez Sr T(KO).

Also, the stoppage Chavez Sr got against Taylor is probably one of the best calls in the history of boxing.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> I can't even remember posting that.On reflection,I may have been hasty.


You didn't post it. :lol: I do that too often to you, and it isn't right.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> You didn't post it. :lol: I do that too often to you, and it isn't right.


Cruel!:sad5
You know my memory's already shot to shit!


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

@SJS20

https://imgflip.com/gifgenerator


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> :rofl :rofl
> 
> Chavez Accuracy and Defense still underrated though. :deal


Fucking blasphemy.


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> @SJS20
> 
> https://imgflip.com/gifgenerator


Always been shocked at that, Calzaghe never used one either. Not sure if Joe would even skip rope.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

SJS20 said:


> Always been shocked at that, Calzaghe never used one either. Not sure if Joe would even skip rope.


Supposedly by the mid-1980s when his career was beginning to fake flight at 130 lbs, the only gym work training he put in was sparring at 10 rounds per day, six days a week. There's a cool little featurette at the beginning of this video that provides a great snapshot of a particular time and era in boxing history.






And then after that, @Zopilote .... They proceed to shit on him the whole fucking time during the fight. It's been a long time since I've seen it but I remember Leonard's commentary being particularly horrid here. I mean, first time in against a southpaw, a contender not a bum, his footwork here was a little mediocre, but how awful could it really be when he drops the cunt in the first round and proceeds to finish him off by the mid-rounds. :lol:


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> - Fuck off, Francis.


Your post adds nothing new to the storaro-brilliance that was this post:
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...ssion-Thread&p=2353051&viewfull=1#post2353051 
This thread, also known as "Temple ov El Boolsheeto", is the only place on this site you're legally allowed to discuss the Great JC.

Boxing hasn't died since Floyd left, by the way, you just need to go deeper, as Leo liked to say in Total Eclipse.

It was sad to see you looking all lost and sleepy in the Quigg-Frampton thread though.
Dem brits and their soccer.

Hop on the Cruiserweight Express, it will deliver you to destination Happiness in no time:
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-Express-***&p=1926110&viewfull=1#post1926110

Knowing that you're old as hell though, you probably wanna reminisce about dinosaurs and civil war-era fighters.
Here ya go:
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?66636-Legendary-Legends.

Thank me later via PM.
But no pictures of naked Chacal this time.


----------



## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> Always been shocked at that, Calzaghe never used one either. Not sure if Joe would even skip rope.


That surprises me. I figured Joe would be a speed bag master; the guy in the gym just rolling the bag with a goofy grin loving all the attention.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Your post adds nothing new to the storaro-brilliance that was this post:
> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...ssion-Thread&p=2353051&viewfull=1#post2353051
> This thread, also known as "Temple ov El Boolsheeto", is the only place on this site you're legally allowed to discuss the Great JC.


And of course, I've never been in that thread once, nevermind at a time to randomly stumble upon that post. Pretty awesome coincidence.



> Boxing hasn't died since Floyd left, by the way, you just need to go deeper, as Leo liked to say in Total Eclipse.
> 
> It was sad to see you looking all lost and sleepy in the Quigg-Frampton thread though. Dem brits and their soccer.


I wuz. I haven't been able to get it up for boxing anymore.



> Hop on the Cruiserweight Express, it will deliver you to destination Happiness in no time:
> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-Express-***&p=1926110&viewfull=1#post1926110
> 
> Knowing that you're old as hell though, you probably wanna reminisce about dinosaurs and civil war-era fighters.
> ...


Meh, maybe... And 29 this month! :yikes Every raging narcissist gets their comeuppance eventually, but I still ain't got a sliver of flab or wrinkle on me, homie. ðŸ˜Ž


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> And of course, I've never been in that thread once, nevermind at a time to randomly stumble upon that post. Pretty awesome coincidence.


Yeah, right.

Almost as awesome as Francis Ford Mangiafuoco randomly stumbling upon Pinocchio Storaro and stealing him from Jeppeto Bertolucci.



Hands of Iron said:


> I haven't been able to get it up for boxing anymore.


Happens to everyone.

But if you really loved it the fire will never truly die.

Just as your HGH-pumped posts on noir and gay cinema rekindled my passion for great movies.



Hands of Iron said:


> Meh, maybe...


Even @Zopilote follows Cruisers.
Think about that for second.
How awesome the division above lightweight has to be, if even a Mexican follows it?



Hands of Iron said:


> And 29 this month!


- You're getting old, John!











Hands of Iron said:


> I still ain't got a sliver of flab or wrinkle on me, homie. ðŸ˜Ž


Botox.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

28 this month. I am an old bastard.


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Sr crushes Floyd. Prime Floyd couldn't keep JLC off of him and while JLC is no slouch he's also definitely no JCC Sr. I'll take Chavez everyday no matter the odds


----------



## Hook! (Jun 8, 2012)

this fight would have brought the very best out of Floyd, he says a lot himself no one really brought the very best out of himself. Would've been a great fight IMO.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

bjl12 said:


> Sr crushes Floyd. Prime Floyd couldn't keep JLC off of him and while JLC is no slouch he's also definitely no JCC Sr. I'll take Chavez everyday no matter the odds


It's a good thing too, because JCC isn't going to possess the hefty weight advantage his sparring partner punching bag Castillo did over Floyd. Even Pedderrs has second thoughts about this fight because of that; he shouldn't but it's worth mentioning.


----------



## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Pretty unoriginal thread sparked from another.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Money vs Chavez would = Pea wee vs Chavez. If you wanna consider it a draw, well go right ahead. I love Chavez, a least he knows how to knock people out, but styles make fights. Mayweather would naturalize Chavez power and pressure with boring precision.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

I wanted to make a joke about depending on what gloves Floyd would let him wear but iirc JCC had brittle hands and already used Mayweather approved padding gloves.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Mr. Brain said:


> Money vs Chavez would = Pea wee vs Chavez. If you wanna consider it a draw, well go right ahead. I love Chavez, a least he knows how to knock people out, but styles make fights. Mayweather would naturalize Chavez power and pressure with boring precision.





dyna said:


> Except Whitaker is a lot better on the inside than Floyd, and Floyd is also on the ropes for much longer and much more often than Pernell.
> Against fighters that can bring non-stop pressure he's also extremely negative in the rematches.
> 
> Floyd is obviously uncomfortable under pressure.





Hands of Iron said:


> He's also (obviously) a southpaw, possessed a higher work rate, utilized more awkward punching angles, had better lateral movement and his defensive genius was based predominantly on instinct, intuition and reflexes. Floyd's is centered on his guard and fundamentals, he doesn't break his technique. Whitaker was liable to throw his out the window at times and was by-and-large able to get away with it. He put himself at higher risk more often than Floyd, but it made him nigh-on impossible to predict and infuriating to deal with. That doesn't mean Floyd doesn't have the aforementioned qualities himself or that Pea lacked fundamentals, it's just the strongest things I take from their styles defensively. He wasn't a Freak on the level of Roy Jones, but he was similar in the sense that only Pernell Whitaker can fight like Pernell Whitaker.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Botox.


:lol:

No.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

@Muff You got somethin to say, bruh? â˜º


----------



## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> @*Muff* You got somethin to say, bruh? â˜º


I would favor Floyd.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Muff said:


> I would favor Floyd.


ðŸ˜'


----------



## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> ðŸ˜'


It pains me to say it


----------



## desertlizard (Dec 29, 2015)

defo worth watching, their styles are so different


----------



## knowimuch (May 9, 2014)

How would JCC Jr vs Mayweather go


----------



## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

Mayweather. Wouldn't be a very fun fight to watch, unless you are a student of intricate footwork. I'd enjoy it.


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> Mayweather. Wouldn't be a very fun fight to watch, unless you are a student of intricate footwork. I'd enjoy it.


Maybe not for Floyd fans but most of us would enjoy Chavez slowing FLoyd down with his bodywork and putting on a methodical beat-down until the inevitable stoppage.


----------



## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

ElKiller said:


> Maybe not for Floyd fans but most of us would enjoy Chavez slowing FLoyd down with his bodywork and putting on a methodical beat-down until the inevitable stoppage.


OK. Sure


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> OK. Sure


You got that right. This ain't little Jesus Chavez we're talking about.:deal


----------



## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> Mayweather. Wouldn't be a very fun fight to watch, unless you are a student of intricate footwork. I'd enjoy it.


That's a matter of degree, it'd be action-packed for a Mayweather fight, a bit like Cotto or Maidana, but perhaps a tad boring compared with most ChÃ¡vez fights


----------



## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

Eoghan said:


> That's a matter of degree, it'd be action-packed for a Mayweather fight, a bit like Cotto or Maidana, but perhaps a tad boring compared with most ChÃ¡vez fights


.... Maybe. Maybe it's like JLC 1 or Maidana 1..... Maybe it's more like JLC 2 or Maidana 2. Chavez is better than either, but let's not act like people got close to Mayweather when he wasn't ok with it.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dead Links


----------



## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

They're both retired. :rofl


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

tezel8764 said:


> They're both retired. :rofl


You think this would've made 180+ posts in Historical Forum? :rofl Not that this place isn't deader than disco itself.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> .... Maybe. Maybe it's like JLC 1 or Maidana 1..... Maybe it's more like JLC 2 or Maidana 2. Chavez is better than either, but let's not act like people got close to Mayweather when he wasn't ok with it.


If Maidana can counter Floyd's counter once...Chavez can do it more than once.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Shine Like Storaro


Mmm.








Lester1583 said:


> Your post adds nothing new.


Looking through the first six pages or so again, I'm pretty content. Content With Life! Life's Good, Lester. Real Good. Not much to post about anymore, film thread ideas done and smoked out too. Bernie lost but Bird and Blade Runner are GOAT. What's left to do?


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> What's left to do?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Mmm.


This album>>>>


----------



## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

knowimuch said:


> How would JCC Jr vs Mayweather go


Lt Heavy JCC JR. may have a chance, just barely.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Chavez was at his peak at 140.

Mayweather UD all day, I could see them exchanging knockdowns.


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

I got Sr. on this one, bad stylistic match up for Floyd


----------



## Antsu (Jun 4, 2013)

I would put my money on guy who dominated never generation


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Meldrick Taylor x2 (Top 5 P4P)
> Edwin Rosario (Top 5 P4P)
> Rocky Lockridge
> Mario Martinez
> ...


It's a decent enough top end CV. Not something you can just say as a standalone comment and get a clearly well-made point across or anything, but it's good.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Julio Cesar Vasquez.


Whitaker's resume is so fresh.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Whitaker's resume is so fresh.


Ok for a guy who barely scraped by a one-armed McGirt.

No young hungry lions on his resume.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)




----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Ok for a guy who barely scraped by a one-armed McGirt.
> 
> No young hungry lions on his resume.


Nah, not any young lions but JCC, Zoom, Skirt and JCV were all 29-31 and on no worse than the back end.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

@Bogotazo -- Pernell Whitaker's P4P rated opponents:

Azumah Nelson
Buddy McGirt
Julio Cesar Chavez, Sr.
Oscar De La Hoya


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> @Bogotazo -- Pernell Whitaker's P4P rated opponents:
> 
> Azumah Nelson
> Buddy McGirt
> ...


Lovely list.

Currently editing clips of Oski backing up Floyd. Totally different to the in-the-pocket turning of old Sweat Pea.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Ok for a guy who barely scraped by a one-armed McGirt.
> 
> No young hungry lions on his resume.


I actually saw Gary Jacobs the last time I went to a boxing gym.
So maybe no hungry cubs,but he does have an arrogant Jew on there.And if I remember right,he phoned in that performance.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Totally different to the in-the-pocket turning of old Sweat Pea.


The Whitaker-Mayweather comparisons are so superficial, they basically scream of noobness.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> The Whitaker-Mayweather comparisons are so superficial, they basically scream of noobness.


Agreed.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> The Whitaker-Mayweather comparisons are so superficial, they basically scream of noobness.


There's actually more to add to the list of differences that Dyna and I rattled off.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> It's a decent enough top end CV. Not something you can just say as a standalone comment and get a clearly well-made point across or anything, but it's good.


Castillo as well.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dead Links


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> top end CV.


- You're my idol!
- Relax, bro. I know.









Leonard
Duran x2
JL Ramirez
Prime Rosario
Mancini
Boza-Edwards
Roach
Davis Jr

And the list goes on.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> - You're my idol!
> - Relax, bro. I know.
> 
> 
> ...


His face and demeanor after the Boolsheeto beat down of Frankie Mitchell. :rofl


----------



## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> The Whitaker-Mayweather comparisons are so superficial, they basically scream of noobness.


Whatever Sweet Pea could do to Chavez, Money could do also. Noobness be damned.


----------



## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> - You're my idol!
> - Relax, bro. I know.
> 
> 
> ...


"- You're my idol! - Relax, bro. I know."

Real conversation?


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> His face and demeanor after the Boolsheeto beat down of Frankie Mitchell. :rofl





Lester1583 said:


> One-sided.
> 
> Long overdue.
> 
> ...





Zopilote said:


> :yep
> 
> I'm sure they also shared a couple of lines afterwards.
> 
> ...


Even Mexicans loved Macho - such a beautiful voice:


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> - Stole my mother's TV to watch the Macho fight:


They showed Leonard during Camacho-Davis Jr..

Ray looked terrified.

He already knew.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

:rofl Stop making me laugh, you cunt. Your posts are a conspiracy to make my nasolabial folds more prominent. You're trying to age me dude, and I won't have it.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> :rofl Stop making me laugh, you cunt. Your posts are a conspiracy to make my nasolabial folds more prominent. You're trying to age me dude, and I won't have it.


:lol:

The issue is like above with Mr.Brain: Some posters will think Lester's awesomeness is based on truth.

Not realising he's the major satirist (and surrealist) in pugilistic prose.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> My nasolabial folds are worse than Refn's forray into Hollywood.


Macho Ain't Having It:




Leonard's eyes at 0:10.

@bballchump11


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Leonard knew that going against a faster fighter would get him exposed.


----------



## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Macho Ain't Having It:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Who was the old guy giving Camacho lip?


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> Leonard knew that going against a faster fighter would get him exposed.


Xpert post, D.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Mr. Brain said:


> Whatever Sweet Pea could do to Chavez, Money could do also. Noobness be damned.


Sweat Pea was southpaw, but I see a much more difficult fight for Floyd!


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Macho Ain't Having It:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol Leonard was defeated at the press conference. RIP Camacho


----------



## Brownies (Jun 7, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> The Whitaker-Mayweather comparisons are so superficial, they basically scream of noobness.


Slick and black man. No matter how much you try to complicate things, slick and black.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> Benton


Notice the automatic shoulder raise at the end - decades of training:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Antsu said:


> I would put my money on guy who dominated never generation


What does this mean?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I have to re-watch this fight.


:rofl Like fucking hell you do. "Jesus Chavez cornered Floyd" is one of the most memorable and repeated things I think you've ever said. Honestly what I remember most about that fight were the...



bballchump11 said:


> Uppercuts.


Savage.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> What does this mean?


Never generation = Millennials :smile


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Unlce Roga's destruction is a better win than any of Floyd's super feather wins. Not that anyone cares with all the talk of "The Consensus TBE at 130!"
> 
> Uncle Roga managed to hurt Chavez - he was that hard of a hitter.
> 
> ...


Chavez would definitely have better days in terms of trunks though.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Poll Added.


----------



## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

If Meldrick Taylor could go as close as he did to beating Chavez on points, I'd assume that Floyd would be able to last the whole 12 rounds and win on points too.

**I haven't read through previous responses, but I would assume I am not the only one to make this point?**


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Say, how would Chavez deal with Floyd's underrated strength on the inside.

Sure he isn't exactly clamoring inside fighting, but he seems to hold his own even against bigger guys.

Hatton was beaten in his own game, Maidana wasn't exactly keeping Floyd pinned down an entire round, Castillo was successful but it wasn't enough to completely control the fight.

Chavez best chance would be inside fighting, but how would he do when he gets on the inside and Floyd is also formidable there.


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

KERRIGAN said:


> If Meldrick Taylor could go as close as he did to beating Chavez on points, I'd assume that Floyd would be able to last the whole 12 rounds and win on points too.
> 
> **I haven't read through previous responses, but I would assume I am not the only one to make this point?**


Chavez managed to goad Taylor in a brawl though. He was ahead because he went all out and was landing a higher ratio of powerpunches.

Floyd will avoid as much exchange as possible and try to potshot or counter one at a time.

In that scenario, the activity and workrate will be in Chavez favor.


----------



## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Chavez managed to goad Taylor in a brawl though. He was ahead because he went all out and was landing a higher ratio of powerpunches.
> 
> Floyd will avoid as much exchange as possible and try to potshot or counter one at a time.
> 
> In that scenario, the activity and workrate will be in Chavez favor.


In these kind of hypothetical match ups, each fighter is supposed to be at their best, so I would assume Floyd's hands wouldn't be so brittle, which is largely what has marred the latter part of his career.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

I think if anyone says that either guy easily wins, they're full of shit. It's a razor close fight either way.


----------



## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

Chavez struggled with lesser boxers than Mayweather, moreso than Mayweather struggled with lesser boxers than Chavez when he was healthy and around prime, but he also likes to fight off the ropes, and at his own pace. If there ever were a Chavez-Mayweather fight, there'd definitely be a rematch, maybe even a trilogy


----------



## knowimuch (May 9, 2014)

What weights are we talking about? Favor Floyd at WW and SFW (he simply looked marvelous there) the rest is a toss-up


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

knowimuch said:


> What weights are we talking about?


Stated in the OP.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

We already saw this fight when Mayweather fought Baldomir.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> We already saw this fight when Mayweather fought Baldomir.


You're in the wrong barrio for that sort of lip, hombre.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Chavez would definitely have better days in terms of trunks though.


It's weird that Roger had a much more entertaining style than the rest of the fam.

@Lester1583

I remember the first time I saw Roger was on a late night card on ITV that was one of those wonderful unscheduled treats for us downtrodden boxing fans.
Was Hearns top of the bill? Roldan or Barkley?
@Flea Man ?

I know Roger was on the undercard but his moniker was so cool it may be a big reason why I hate Kobe and like hearing how overrated he was.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> You're in the wrong barrio for that sort of lip, hombre.


It was funny though.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Floyd kills brawlers. That check hook will be working over time. 39 have tried. There is no blueprint.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> It was funny though.


I'm still a bit put off by your blasé 119-109 Floyd hit-and-run in here tbh, mate.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I'm still a bit put off by your blasé 119-109 Floyd hit-and-run in here tbh, mate.


You should know by now that if it didn't happen in the last 18 hours I have no knowledge of it.
And if I did say it,I was probably just repaying some misquote you Punk'd me with.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I'm still a bit put off by your blasé 119-109 Floyd hit-and-run in here tbh, mate.


You bastard! :lol:


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I'm still a bit put off by your blasé 119-109 Floyd hit-and-run in here tbh, mate.


You know you really have to stop taking advantage of my shot memory.
I was assaulted by a first responder yesterday.Im having a bad week!


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> You know you really have to stop taking advantage of my shot memory.
> I was assaulted by a first responder yesterday.Im having a bad week!


All I'm saying is that JCC combined a steady enough work rate and good two-handed power with elite offensive footwork, defensive capabilities, body attack, combination punching, stamina and chin to give Floyd Mayweather a considerable night's work, and then I long-windedly waxed lyrical about how he can win the fight. He deserves better than some "119-109" type shit. That dude JLC was one of his punching bags.

And you got what by a first responder??


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Floyd got better as he aged, the Chavez that fought Taylor would win the fight and the rematch.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> All I'm saying is that JCC combined a steady enough work rate and good two-handed power with elite offensive footwork, defensive capabilities, body attack, combination punching, stamina and chin to give Floyd Mayweather a considerable night's work, and then I long-windedly waxed lyrical about how he can win the fight. He deserves better than some "119-109" type shit. That dude JLC was one of his punching bags.
> 
> And you got what by a first responder??


Yeah,a 119-109 that I never even came up with!


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

KERRIGAN said:


> In these kind of hypothetical match ups, each fighter is supposed to be at their best, so I would assume Floyd's hands wouldn't be so brittle, which is largely what has marred the latter part of his career.


Floyd's hand problems extend all the way back to his SFW heyday.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Floyd's hand problems extend all the way back to his SFW heyday.


To the amateur days, according to his dad.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

This would be like Chavez-Whitaker only with Chavez feeling the shots.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> To the amateur days, according to his dad.


Manos de Vaso.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Manos de Vaso.


Hands of glass cup??

Manos de Vidrio.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Hands of glass cup??
> 
> Manos de Vidrio.


It's the thought that counts. I was originally going to say Cristal. :lol: You've missed out on shit this week. Not in this thread though, unfortunately. Been dead for a year almost.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> This would be like Chavez-Whitaker only with Chavez feeling the shots.


Why is mayweather a harder hitter than whitaker?



















Also, I think Hoi touched on it earlier, but its a completely different fight stylistically to whitaker-chavez.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Both fighters break both of their hands.
Afterwards it becomes a fight that would resemble Quarry vs Wladimir


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

dyna said:


> Afterwards it becomes a fight that would resemble Quarry vs Wladimir


You are saying that knowing that Quarry would KO Wlad, right?

Big 1 dimensional punchers were canon fodder to Quarry.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> You are saying that knowing that Quarry would KO Wlad, right?
> 
> Big 1 dimensional punchers were canon fodder to Quarry.


I said Wlad, not Foreman.

And no way any fighter below 160 with broken hands KOs Floyd.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

dyna said:


> I said Wlad, not Foreman.
> 
> And no way any fighter below 160 with broken hands KOs Floyd.


Quarry would destroy Wlad


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Quarry would destroy Wlad


With arms _that short?_

_







_


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> Why is mayweather a harder hitter than whitaker?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Floyd was a devastating one punch knockout artist.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Floyd was a devastating one punch knockout artist.


:lol: 2/4 of those gifs you posted are knockdowns.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Find his stay-busy fights far more interesting than most of Duran's efforts, aside from his biggest fights.
> 
> JC was like a machine.
> 
> ...


Sneaky right hands.

Duplessis a Solid Super Lightweight... 36-1...25 knockouts. His only loss a _controversial_ decision to Louie Lome-- DOWN GOES DUPLESSIS!!!

I don't know if it's fair to call that 'stay busy' fight though. Boolsheeto kind of redefined it for his era. In fact, if you take Duplessis corner into consideration as part of the team, it's a great win.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Floyd was a devastating one punch knockout artist.





tommygun711 said:


> :lol: 2/4 of those gifs you posted are knockdowns.


They weren't balance shots. It was Floyd's otherworldly power that resulted in the knockdowns.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> Also, I think Hoi touched on it earlier, but its a completely different fight stylistically to whitaker-chavez.


Well, we touched on how Floyd and Whitaker differ stylistically (significantly) which bears a strong correlection, I suppose. It's likely a tougher fight for Floyd regardless due to the fact that it'd 87/88 JCC at 135, not the '93 incarnation at 145, who while not the same fighter, still possessed an elite set of skills. Is anyone rating any of Floyd's W's over it?


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> They weren't balance shots. It was Floyd's otherworldly power that resulted in the knockdowns.


Due to the amount of people who say silly things on this board, it's hard to tell if your serious or playing around. Guessing the latter.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Is anyone rating any of Floyd's W's over it?


no. They'd be dumb to do so. And Floyd doesn't have a win better than Vasquez. Pea did it without a catchweight. I might be overrating McGirt but he's also better than most of Floyd opponents.

Pea's workrate is one thing that is a HUGE, huge difference stylistically when you look at Floyd's conservative output.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> no. They'd be dumb to do so. And Floyd doesn't have a win better than Vasquez. Pea did it without a catchweight. I might be overrating McGirt but he's also better than most of Floyd opponents.
> 
> Pea's workrate is one thing that is a HUGE, huge difference stylistically when you look at Floyd's conservative output.


http://checkhookboxing.com/index.ph...lio-cesar-chavez-sr.65675/page-2#post-1985927

Floyd may well prove too skilled and difficult for Chavez to solve. Whitaker left nothing for you to solve, really.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs is on some 119-109 PityTheFool nonsense, but we know where his heart would be.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> http://checkhookboxing.com/index.ph...lio-cesar-chavez-sr.65675/page-2#post-1985927
> 
> Floyd may well prove too skilled and difficult for Chavez to solve. Whitaker left nothing for you to solve, really.


chavez doesnt solve he systematically destroys people and would destroy floyd's shoulders and arms


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Pedderrs is on some 119-109 PityTheFool nonsense, but we know where his heart would be.


Floyd isn't all that likable unless you like your heroes throwing 100 dollar bills at the camera and uploading pictures of all their money on social networking sites, but the kid is a fuckin' phenomenal fighter. Ludicrously fast and a damn near impenetrable defense at his best. I just think Chavez would find it difficult to pin him down. And the times he would manage to close the distance and be in range to unload to body and head, I can't see too many shots landing too cleanly or too often. It's no secret that Chavez struggled with speed and movement. Floyd has both in abundance, and we also know he has the capacity to take a big shot when required. Chavez isn't knocking Floyd out with a single shot. He broke fighters down. I just don't see him landing with enough regularity to do that here. I'm a doubter. Chavez would be second best at long range and/or mid range. He needs to close the distance and work the body.

You know where my heart would be, but my head says Floyd by decision at ANY weight.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> chavez doesnt solve he systematically destroys people and would destroy floyd's shoulders and arms


He also doesn't swing wildly, and is very selective with his shots and rarely wastes punches he isn't in good position to land on top of being defensively responsible unless a guy has literally nothing behind his punches. Dude aint no Mexican Warrior, he's a fucking technician. Floyd's technique and accuracy is too good to just walk through, those punches visibly have some bite on them given the reaction the majority of his opponents. Chavez also starts far more slowly than I'd prefer here. You just can't forfeit frames to someone like Floyd.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Floyd isn't all that likable unless you like your heroes throwing 100 dollar bills at the camera and uploading pictures of all their money on social networking sites, but the kid is a fuckin' phenomenal fighter. Ludicrously fast and a damn near impenetrable defense at his best. I just think Chavez would find it difficult to pin him down. And the times he would manage to close the distance and be in range to unload to body and head, I can't see too many shots landing too cleanly or too often. It's no secret that Chavez struggled with speed and movement. Floyd has both in abundance, and we also know he has the capacity to take a big shot when required. Chavez isn't knocking Floyd out with a single shot. He broke fighters down. I just don't see him landing with enough regularity to do that here. I'm a doubter. Chavez would be second best at long range and/or mid range. He needs to close the distance and work the body.
> 
> You know where my heart would be, but my head says Floyd by decision at ANY weight.


Fitting you would be writing this at the same time as mine above. :lol: That's doubt and objectivity. Bit ironic that what I'd ordinarily consider strengths and skills in JCC's make-up and arsenal could actually play against him to some degree.


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

He could of beat a 160lb Junior before Sergio did. See the Baldomir fight, and repeat.

Is JCC Sr vs Duran confirmed for the undercard of Crawford vs Postol?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

SJS20 said:


> He could of beat a 160lb Junior before Sergio did. See the Baldomir fight, and repeat.
> 
> *Is JCC Sr vs Duran confirmed for the undercard of Crawford vs Postol?*


:rofl I think so, mate. I love how Top Rank announced it as if it's not a complete circus and then this question comes off half legitimately.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Fitting you would be writing this at the same time as mine above. :lol: That's doubt and objectivity. Bit ironic that what I'd ordinarily consider strengths and skills in JCC's make-up and arsenal could actually play against him to some degree.


Indeed. Chavez is precious about his work; he won't throw unless he's confident he will land. Floyd won't be in that space for long and when he is, he's difficult to hit cleanly. Floyd has pop too. He isn't a knockout artist obviously, but he has enough snap and venom in his punches to deter even the toughest of fighters from mindlessly coming forward with little regard for defence. Julio would have to slow Floyd down with a consistent body attack in the first half of the fight and hope he's slowed his man down enough that he'll have to stand his ground. I know we see Floyd sitting in the pocket more these days, but that didn't used to be the case. The more Chavez is frustrated and trying to figure out how to get off with his offense, the less occupied he will be about his defence too -- which will make him a sucker for some sweet right hand leads and left jabs. Points, points and more points! He may have more success late on, but it's too late by then.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Indeed. Chavez is precious about his work; he won't throw unless he's confident he will land.


OP. :deal

Next time I'll just say educated pressure, ring generalship, work rate and leave it at that  How you gonna dissuade me and then come with paragraphs?!



> Floyd won't be in that space for long and when he is, he's difficult to hit cleanly. Floyd has pop too. He isn't a knockout artist obviously, but he has enough snap and venom in his punches to deter even the toughest of fighters from mindlessly coming forward with little regard for defence. Julio would have to slow Floyd down with a consistent body attack in the first half of the fight and hope he's slowed his man down enough that he'll have to stand his ground. I know we see Floyd sitting in the pocket more these days, but that didn't used to be the case. The more Chavez is frustrated and trying to figure out how to get off with his offense, the less occupied he will be about his defence too -- which will make him a sucker for some sweet right hand leads and left jabs. Points, points and more points! He may have more success late on, but it's too late by then.


We did see Floyd stand his ground at times at the lower weights but I'd be hard pressed to believe he didn't choose to be there against the likes of Jesus Chavez, who did little to work his way into exchanges aside from following him around the ring and got brutalized for his efforts. I guess if Floyd truly wanted to stink his way to victory, he could do it with his movement (albeit more choppy, less fluid/impressive than Pea's) and constantly tying up whenever Julio got close, but I see Floyd as a fighter, not a spoiler. He can afford a low output here though if JCC's collapses accordingly.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

This thread needs to die.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> This thread needs to die.


I know right, especially with threads such as this on the forum:

http://checkhookboxing.com/index.ph...se-little-g-being-a-little-bitch-again.84047/

:rolleyes


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I know right, especially with threads such as this on the forum:
> 
> http://checkhookboxing.com/index.ph...se-little-g-being-a-little-bitch-again.84047/
> 
> :rolleyes


At least it got shut down. This fantasy fight is basically a fanboy haven for narrow mindedness.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> OP. :deal
> 
> Next time I'll just say educated pressure, ring generalship, work rate and leave it at that  How you gonna dissuade me and then come with paragraphs?!
> 
> We did see Floyd stand his ground at times at the lower weights but I'd be hard pressed to believe he didn't choose to be there against the likes of Jesus Chavez, who did little to work his way into exchanges aside from following him around the ring and got brutalized for his efforts. I guess if Floyd truly wanted to stink his way to victory, he could do it with his movement (albeit more choppy, less fluid/impressive than Pea's) and constantly tying up whenever Julio got close, but I see Floyd as a fighter, not a spoiler. He can afford a low output here though if JCC's collapses accordingly.


I don't read your self-congratulatory essays, punk.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> I don't read your self-congratulatory essays, punk.


:rofl


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I don't read your self-congratulatory essays, punk.


:rofl


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> At least it got shut down. This fantasy fight is basically a fanboy haven for narrow mindedness.


How would you know with your less-than-zero contribution here. :-( Used to be my homie, used to be my ace, now I wanna slap the taste out your mouth... then I'd get taken to the ground, but um... This thread actually hadn't been done, believe it or not. Not a CHB rendition anyway. It's been intelligent, engaging, informative, measured and fun. I would've been fine letting it die on several different occasions.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> How would you know with your less-than-zero contribution here. :-( Used to be my homie, used to be my ace, now I wanna slap the taste out your mouth... then I'd get taken to the ground, but um... This thread actually hadn't been done, believe it or not. Not a CHB rendition anyway. It's been intelligent, engaging, informative, measured and fun. I would've been fine letting it die on several different occasions.


:rofl Weren't the same people in this thread pretty much the same people who banged on about this at the old house?

Even if its not a thread with this title it is still tirelessly brought up :verysad


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :rofl Weren't the same people in this thread pretty much the same people who banged on about this at the old house?
> 
> Even if its not a thread with this title it is still tirelessly brought up :verysad


There are _damn fine_ posts throughout this piece. And you know the shit never stays on topic. I not sure what ya want from me bruh, I've tried to talk about Roy in two separate threads. The fuck if I'm gonna be on about this Bossnelo/Little G "modern fight game" shit. I have another Penalosa masterpiece to watch today.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> There are _damn fine_ posts throughout this piece. And you know the shit never stays on topic. I not sure what ya want from me bruh, I've tried to talk about Roy in two separate threads. The fuck if I'm gonna be on about this Bossnelo/Little G "modern fight game" shit. I have another Penalosa masterpiece to watch today.


You watching the Saucedo fight brah?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> You watching the Saucedo fight brah?


Believe that's the one, hopefully some time today.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Anyone with thoughts of "well chavez will just break him down to the arms and the shoulders and hips etc etc" really need to have a word with themselves atsch


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Anyone with thoughts of "well chavez will just break him down to the arms and the shoulders and hips etc etc" really need to have a word with themselves atsch


It's a ludicrous thought. If Baldo couldn't do it...


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> It's a ludicrous thought. If Baldo couldn't do it...


Nor Oskee


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Anyone with thoughts of "well chavez will just break him down to the arms and the shoulders and hips etc etc" really need to have a word with themselves atsch


that would be part of Chavez's tactics, and Duran's tactics. Of course it would take more than that to beat floyd. just saying its part of what they would do. This is what old school pressure fighters do.

Makes me wonder if you have even ever boxed before if you are questioning this line of attack. If mayweather shells up like that it wouldnt bode well for him vs chavez or duran.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> that would be part of Chavez's tactics, and Duran's tactics. Of course it would take more than that to beat floyd. just saying its part of what they would do. This is what old school pressure fighters do.
> 
> Makes me wonder if you have even ever boxed before if you are questioning this line of attack. If mayweather shells up like that it wouldnt bode well for him vs chavez or duran.


Turbo may look like a twink but he got skills. Floyd's shoulders and arms are made out of cast-iron bruh, but he's not gonna find Chavez as easy to target with those right hand counters out of the shell like he does everyone else, and you have to land punches to win fights, so... perhaps not that effective, but it would have to play some part if JC Superstar is taking a decision. You can't back Floyd into the ropes and not try and take advantage of it, even as particular as Chavez was with his punch output in terms of openings.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Notice the automatic shoulder raise at the end - decades of training:


:lol: that's a good catch actually. It's just complete instinct. He feels hurt, he raises his shoulder no matter the situation. I feel bad for anybody who tries to surprise him and slaps him on the shoulder. They may eat a counter right


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Turbo may look like a twink but he got skills. Floyd's shoulders and arms are made out of cast-iron bruh, but he's not gonna find Chavez as easy to target with those right hand counters out of the shell like he does everyone else, and you have to land punches to win fights, so... perhaps not that effective, but it would have to play some part if JC Superstar is taking a decision. You can't back Floyd into the ropes and not try and take advantage of it, even as particular as Chavez was with his punch output in terms of openings.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Chavez: "I always fought the best and he didn't"

Sorry mate, Floyd's win column is better than yours.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Chavez: "I always fought the best and he didn't"
> 
> Sorry mate, Floyd's win column is better than yours.


I Dunno addie. Its close.

Dunno if floyd really has wins better than prime taylor, ramirez, lockridge, laporte, rosario and camacho. Most of floyds best wins are over guys past their prime besides corrales and castillo


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

What's funny is that I know 2 guys in particular who's gameplan was to punch Floyd in the shoulder and arms to break him down.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> TurboTwink.


Turbo looks like a tough guy.

To curl.

With one hand.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Chavez: "I always fought the best and he didn't"
> 
> Sorry mate, Floyd's win column is better than yours.


Actually saw that interview the other day and cringed most of the way through.



Lester1583 said:


> Turbo looks like a tough guy.
> 
> To curl.
> 
> With one hand.


What's yer height and weight?


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

@mike_bngs Good pick, dude. :thumbsup


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Turbo may look like a twink but he got skills. Floyd's shoulders and arms are made out of cast-iron bruh, but he's not gonna find Chavez as easy to target with those right hand counters out of the shell like he does everyone else, and you have to land punches to win fights, so... perhaps not that effective, but it would have to play some part if JC Superstar is taking a decision. You can't back Floyd into the ropes and not try and take advantage of it, even as particular as Chavez was with his punch output in terms of openings.


:rofl @tommygun711 of course I've boxed before amateur in tournaments around north america and underground "professionally" :lol: if you will. Mayweather is too smart a fighter IMO to sit back against someone like Chavez and let him punch him wherever Chavez well pleased. Not to mention he also had a size advantage. Chavez was actually pretty economical with his punches, not like Duran, Duran threw a lot of "throw away" punches and I give Duran a better shot than I do CHavez.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Turbo looks like a tough guy.
> 
> To curl.
> 
> With one hand.


Post a pic mister


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Turbo knows what's up.

Chavez is getting Baldomir'd. Dooran too.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> What's yer height and weight?


I don't want to intimidate you.



turbotime said:


> Post a pic mister


Camping. Last summer:


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :rofl @tommygun711 of course I've boxed before amateur in tournaments around north america and underground "professionally" :lol: if you will. Mayweather is too smart a fighter IMO to sit back against someone like Chavez and let him punch him wherever Chavez well pleased. Not to mention he also had a size advantage. Chavez was actually pretty economical with his punches, not like Duran, Duran threw a lot of "throw away" punches and I give Duran a better shot than I do CHavez.




In all seriousness, that's a Truly BAD Motherfucker right there.


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## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :hey


The first time I fought him.....the second time I fought him I was whooping his ass. Yeah, Roger didn't want to talk about the first fight since he got embarrassed and knocked out early in the fight and then he quit in the second fight and was never "whooping his ass". It was the other way around. Roger is an idiot


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> In all seriousness, that's a Truly BAD Motherfucker right there.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


>


:lol: Poor Roboito


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> :lol: Poor Roboito


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

You guys fucked up. :-(


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

GlassJaw said:


> The first time I fought him.....the second time I fought him I was whooping his ass. Yeah, Roger didn't want to talk about the first fight since he got embarrassed and knocked out early in the fight and then he quit in the second fight and was never "whooping his ass". It was the other way around. Roger is an idiot


I give him a pass and find it more humorous than anything. He was pretty damn competitive in the fight up at 140. I don't take his prediction seriously as he pretty much hints nephew would lose on account of what happened to him in there, which is laughable. That's Uncle Rog.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Let it dieeeeee


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Let it dieeeeee


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> In all seriousness, that's a Truly BAD Motherfucker right there.


Pick a different photo from a different fight please.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> Pick a different photo from a different fight please.


It's my favorite photo of him *by far*.

Kind of surprised JCC took this with 63.2% of the vote tbh.


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