# physical strength. jack johnson vs rocky marciano



## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

i am very curious about your opinions,marciano was a very strong, compact and solid framed 185 pounder,he had a thick frame, i rate marciano as one of the strongest guys in his weight if not the strongest, rocky could match in strength with bigger men also because this guy was built for the power, he was a little pitbull,, however johnson was naturally bigger, plus he was naturally a very strong man himself also,rocky was pretty strong just jack was naturally bigger and heavier than rocky so i think that he has advantage here.i am pretty sure that the black guy in this case was clearly the stronger man, in both ways, functional physical strength in the ring and stronger out of the ring,yes, jefries was retired before he faced johnson and he was past his best, but still jim was a strong motherfucker much bigger than marciano , and johnson did handle him like a toy ... i would like to know your opinions..
thanks


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## Johnstown (Jun 4, 2013)

I suspect Johnson was stronger..he also wrestled a good bit..by the time Marciano was around boxers had stopped doing that (due to injuries)

wrestling will build allot of deep strength and also help a great deal in the clinch......


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

Marciano was really strong but Johnson was really strong and really big he would have been a HW even by today standarts and back then he was just huge and that was a time when there was even more clinching and wrestling involved in fights than back when Marciano fought and he was just manhandling about anyone


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Strength is only part of the applicable strength when it comes to boxing. Technique, weight and stamina are just as important to how functional strength appears to be.


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Damn it pp!


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## janitor (Jun 28, 2013)

Who was physicaly stronger between two guys from different eras is one of the hardest questions to give a good answer two. 

That aside I would be inclined to say Johnson. 

I think Johnson is among the strongest heavyweight champions there have ever been, perhaps even today.


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## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

I think Marciano was stronger.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

janitor said:


> Who was physicaly stronger between two guys from different eras is one of the hardest questions to give a good answer two.
> 
> That aside I would be inclined to say Johnson.
> 
> I think Johnson is among the strongest heavyweight champions there have ever been, perhaps even today.


i agree with you, and thanks guys for the answers.


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## Royal-T-Bag (Jun 5, 2013)

Johnson's physical strength was ridiculous, he could clinch you like a mutherfucker

Johnson quite a bit stronger, Rock hit much harder though


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## Johnstown (Jun 4, 2013)

Neither one of them ever did a bench press workout or a preacher curl set...so clearly they would lose to in strength to modern athletes.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Johnstown said:


> Neither one of them ever did a bench press workout or a preacher curl set...so clearly they would lose to in strength to modern athletes.


Not necessarily Marciano could apparently do over 30 pull-ups in a row with a natural walking around weight of about 200lbs. Few athletes today could do so much while at the same time having such a grinding, endurance based training program, although I think you might be trolling a bit. I THINK Johnson might be the stronger man but like others have said it's extremely difficult to tell and many other things come into play. If they were to fight I reckon Marciano would be able to bull him around the ring, center of gravity was very low and had very strong legs.


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## Johnstown (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Not necessarily Marciano could apparently do over 30 pull-ups in a row with a natural walking around weight of about 200lbs. Few athletes today could do so much while at the same time having such a grinding, endurance based training program, although I think you might be trolling a bit. I THINK Johnson might be the stronger man but like others have said it's extremely difficult to tell and many other things come into play. If they were to fight I reckon Marciano would be able to bull him around the ring, center of gravity was very low and had very strong legs.


I was joking about the bench press and curles..

actually though..someone who never did those will be pretty weak on them...even if they have a great deal of functional strength...but of course it doesn't mean much.

I think a fight between the rock and Johnson could very well come down to rule set.....1910 and the judge lets Johnson clinch and it might be a rough deal for Rocky....

1950 rules and it may well be a different story....


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## SP_Mauker (Jun 5, 2013)

Johnstown said:


> I was joking about the bench press and curles..
> 
> actually though..someone who never did those will be pretty weak on them...even if they have a great deal of functional strength...but of course it doesn't mean much.
> 
> ...


Spinks before the Holmes fights started lifting weights. From the get go he was curling 30 - 50lb dumbbells.


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## Webbiano (Jun 9, 2013)

SP_Mauker said:


> Spinks before the Holmes fights started lifting weights. From the get go he was curling 30 - 50lb dumbbells.


That's not quite the point he was trying to make. When you lift weights, generally you struggle when you first start, however you develop stability muscles each time you do weights. Although that's a fair amount. Even if he had a very small experience of lifting weights before, we'd be likely to see an improvement.

In relation to the thread it's Johnson for me. I want to say it wouldn't be to close, but Marciano does hit like brick shithouse, so I'd assume he was pretty strong physically.


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## SP_Mauker (Jun 5, 2013)

Webbiano said:


> That's not quite the point he was trying to make. When you lift weights, generally you struggle when you first start, however you develop stability muscles each time you do weights. Although that's a fair amount. Even if he had a very small experience of lifting weights before, we'd be likely to see an improvement.
> 
> In relation to the thread it's Johnson for me. I want to say it wouldn't be to close, but Marciano does hit like brick shithouse, so I'd assume he was pretty strong physically.


Some people are naturally strong and can lift impressive numbers from the get go,I think Spinks was one of them. Tyson was one of them, Marciano and Johnson would have been also a long with a lot more fighters.

I would also pick Johnson.


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## Bummy Davis (Jun 6, 2013)

Johnson was very strong for his day and he may be able to lift more than Rocky, however Marciano had freakish strength in the ring and freakish power so as far as in that squared battlefield Marciano had the firepower and strength


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## Bil1234 (Jun 11, 2013)

I think Marciano was a bit stronger. Johnson was obviously very strong, however Marciano dedicated his life to being strong. In American football he was known to be a tank and would continue to grind his way forward, even with guys hanging onto him. He also managed to pushback and outmuscle strong men who were also larger than himself such as Rex Layne and Joe Louis. When Rocky didn't want to give ground, few men in history would be able to force him to give ground. I don't think Johnson was one of them. I also think Johnson would have issues keeping Rocky in his grip in the clinches, which was Johnson's bread and butter as a fighter and he based his style on it. In all of Rocky's fights, I never saw him tied up for an extended period of time when he was trying to break free. Johnson did outmuscle Jeffries, though, however I think that had more to due with Johnson using leverage rather than him actually being stronger.


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## Johnstown (Jun 4, 2013)

Bil1234 said:


> I think Marciano was a bit stronger. Johnson was obviously very strong, however Marciano dedicated his life to being strong. In American football he was known to be a tank and would continue to grind his way forward, even with guys hanging onto him. He also managed to pushback and outmuscle strong men who were also larger than himself such as Rex Layne and Joe Louis. When Rocky didn't want to give ground, few men in history would be able to force him to give ground. I don't think Johnson was one of them. I also think Johnson would have issues keeping Rocky in his grip in the clinches, which was Johnson's bread and butter as a fighter and he based his style on it. In all of Rocky's fights, I never saw him tied up for an extended period of time when he was trying to break free. *Johnson did outmuscle Jeffries, though, however I think that had more to due with Johnson using leverage *rather than him actually being stronger.


he played football??

ok....well do you think he could out leverage him?

I do think the wrestling that Johnson did would be a major advantage.


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

I think Rocky was probably stronger he was a harder puncher which I think is functional strength in boxing. Also he was built more for strength imo with his thicker limbs. If Rocky and Johnson trained to be power lifters, bench press, squat and dead lift I think Rocky would be the better power lifter.

Jack Johnson had more of a dangly type build and not really a power build imo. For tying guys up having longer arms is a mechanical advantage so Johnson was stronger in that sense.


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## Johnstown (Jun 4, 2013)

kenny black said:


> I think Rocky was probably stronger he was a harder puncher which I think is functional strength in boxing. Also he was built more for strength imo with his thicker limbs. If Rocky and Johnson trained to be power lifters, bench press, squat and dead lift I think Rocky would be the better power lifter.
> 
> Jack Johnson had more of a dangly type build and not really a power build imo. For tying guys up having longer arms is a mechanical advantage so Johnson was stronger in that sense.


yeah but stronger and power are two different things..also if we are talking about really pushing people around in the ring..than johnsons years of doing that style..and years of legit high level wrestling would be an advantage both in actually building the strength as well as advantages in leverage.


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

Yeah punching hard is not the same as lifting a heavy weight but its still a measure of physical strength, I think. The thread starter said functional strength in boxing and out of the ring strength. And looking at their builds I think Marciano was probably more built for moving real heavy weights. What I have seen of Johnson he was good at tying people up but that's a skill also and being a tall guy for his day and age probably helped him wrap guys up better.


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## Bil1234 (Jun 11, 2013)

Johnstown said:


> he played football??
> 
> ok....well do you think he could out leverage him?
> 
> I do think the wrestling that Johnson did would be a major advantage.


Yes, Marciano played both football and baseball before boxing. I think Johnson could indeed outleverage the Rock, however I still think Marciano was the stronger of the two.


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## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

Bil1234 said:


> I think Marciano was a bit stronger. Johnson was obviously very strong, however Marciano dedicated his life to being strong. In American football he was known to be a tank and would continue to grind his way forward, even with guys hanging onto him. He also managed to pushback and outmuscle strong men who were also larger than himself such as Rex Layne and Joe Louis. When Rocky didn't want to give ground, few men in history would be able to force him to give ground. I don't think Johnson was one of them. I also think Johnson would have issues keeping Rocky in his grip in the clinches, which was Johnson's bread and butter as a fighter and he based his style on it. In all of Rocky's fights, I never saw him tied up for an extended period of time when he was trying to break free. Johnson did outmuscle Jeffries, though, however I think that had more to due with Johnson using leverage rather than him actually being stronger.




I agree with this.. the same way that Ali outleveraged Foreman...not that he was stronger than Foreman (no one was).


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

kenny black said:


> Yeah punching hard is not the same as lifting a heavy weight but its still a measure of physical strength, I think. The thread starter said functional strength in boxing and out of the ring strength. And looking at their builds I think Marciano was probably more built for moving real heavy weights. What I have seen of Johnson he was good at tying people up but that's a skill also and being a tall guy for his day and age probably helped him wrap guys up better.


jack johnson had thicker bones in the arms than marciano, his frame in the arms and upper body looks bulker than rocky´s


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> jack johnson had thicker bones in the arms than marciano, his frame in the arms and upper body looks bulker than rocky´s


Johnson was strong also, but bigger muscles don't always equal greater strength. I am not an expert on what type of muscles are stronger, but when I look at Marciano I think he would have been stronger.

I think punching power is a type of functional strength in boxing. If punching power is not a type of functional strength in boxing then I would say Johnson was stronger.


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## Johnstown (Jun 4, 2013)




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## Johnstown (Jun 4, 2013)

kenny black said:


> Johnson was strong also, but bigger muscles don't always equal greater strength. I am not an expert on what type of muscles are stronger, but when I look at Marciano I think he would have been stronger.
> 
> I think punching power is a type of functional strength in boxing. If punching power is not a type of functional strength in boxing then I would say Johnson was stronger.


In general I would agree...but I have been I the ring with guys who could shove you around and where impossible to move yet didn't hit very hard...and other guys who cracked hard (well usually snappy and a bit explosive) but you could manhandle around a bit.....

but usually if a guy was really strong..he was also pretty heavy handed as well.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

kenny black said:


> Johnson was strong also, but bigger muscles don't always equal greater strength. I am not an expert on what type of muscles are stronger, but when I look at Marciano I think he would have been stronger. I think punching power is a type of functional strength in boxing. If punching power is not a type of functional strength in boxing then I would say Johnson was stronger.


 i never said anything about bigger muscles, for example tyson was packed of muscle, he was like a bodybuilder and he was pushed back by anyone, i said that johnson looked bulker(frame(more robust bones), arms, upper body) than rocky, and the hitting power and strength are completely different things, thomas hearns did hit like a truck and he was fragile physically like a glass. i am talking about strength, . functional physical strength in the boxing is in the clinch for example, i am pretty sure that johnson could push back marciano and rocky could not do the same thing with jack


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## rockyssplitnose (Jun 7, 2012)

heavy_hands said:


> i never said anything about bigger muscles, for example tyson was packed of muscle, he was like a bodybuilder and he was pushed back by anyone, i said that johnson looked bulker(frame(more robust bones), arms, upper body) than rocky, and the hitting power and strength are completely different things, thomas hearns did hit like a truck *and he was fragile physically like a glass. i* am talking about strength, . functional physical strength in the boxing is in the clinch for example, i am pretty sure that johnson could push back marciano and rocky could not do the same thing with jack


:lol: hahaha classic combateo - he was fragile like-a-de-glass!!? Hahaha. Tend to think Jack Johnson could manhandle pretty much anyone myself - he did it with ease in his own career and didnt even look like he was even trying - other fighters have been obviously strong as well but you can see it with other fighters that they are really exerting their strength and as with everything else he did Johnson was able to physically dominate people while probably only exerting about 25% of his real full strength - Johnson is for me the most under rated heavyweight champion of all time - if he'd have been allowed to really show exactly how good he was and just how much strength he had then he would've crushed people up and then blasted them to smithereens like they were nothing IMO


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

rockyssplitnose said:


> :lol: hahaha classic combateo - he was fragile like-a-de-glass!!? Hahaha. Tend to think Jack Johnson could manhandle pretty much anyone myself - he did it with ease in his own career and didnt even look like he was even trying - other fighters have been obviously strong as well but you can see it with other fighters that they are really exerting their strength and as with everything else he did Johnson was able to physically dominate people while probably only exerting about 25% of his real full strength - Johnson is for me the most under rated heavyweight champion of all time - if he'd have been allowed to really show exactly how good he was and just how much strength he had then he would've crushed people up and then blasted them to smithereens like they were nothing IMO


 i agree my former sparring partner


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> i never said anything about bigger muscles, for example tyson was packed of muscle, he was like a bodybuilder and he was pushed back by anyone, i said that johnson looked bulker(frame(more robust bones), arms, upper body) than rocky, and the hitting power and strength are completely different things, thomas hearns did hit like a truck and he was fragile physically like a glass. i am talking about strength, . functional physical strength in the boxing is in the clinch for example, i am pretty sure that johnson could push back marciano and rocky could not do the same thing with jack


 I think Marciano had more of a strong mans build if you look at their legs hips through the torso and put that together with Marciano's shorter levers he would likely be a stronger power lifter imo. The thread starter wanted to know who would have been stronger out of the ring.

In the ring Marciano's strength was more functional for punching then Johnsons and Johnson was the stronger grappler.

Just because you can lift heavy weight don't mean you can punch and it don't mean you can grapple either. I had more grappling strength then lots of guys who were strong weight lifters. Some guys who were strong weight lifters were like play dough on the mats.


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## KuRuPT (Jun 10, 2013)

I really can't take anybody seriously who thinks Marciano was stronger functionally than Johnson. There is just no way.


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

KuRuPT said:


> I really can't take anybody seriously who thinks Marciano was stronger functionally than Johnson. There is just no way.


Functional strength is a type of strength that serves itself for the activity you do. For a boxer hitting hard is functional strength.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

kenny black said:


> I think Marciano had more of a strong mans build if you look at their legs hips through the torso and put that together with Marciano's shorter levers he would likely be a stronger power lifter imo. The thread starter wanted to know who would have been stronger out of the ring.
> 
> In the ring Marciano's strength was more functional for punching then Johnsons and Johnson was the stronger grappler.
> 
> Just because you can lift heavy weight don't mean you can punch and it don't mean you can grapple either. I had more grappling strength then lots of guys who were strong weight lifters. Some guys who were strong weight lifters were like play dough on the mats.


 i never said anything about legs or who would have been a better weight lifter in a fantasy , i said that jack had a bulker upper body than marciano, funny because you did put the photo of the most slim version of johnson that you could find and you did post the best image of rocky.. just laughable... i know how to play to the same game.. like i said.. hitting power has nothing to do with strength, 2 different things, marciano did hit harder but johson was the stronger man, in the clinch or lifting weights
.


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> i never said anything about legs or who would have been a better weight lifter in a fantasy , i said that jack had a bulker upper body than marciano, funny because you did put the photo of the most slim version of johnson that you could find and you did post the best image of rocky.. just laughable... i know how to play to the same game.. like i said.. hitting power has nothing to do with strength, 2 different things, marciano did hit harder but johson was the stronger man, in the clinch or lifting weights
> .


I don't know why you think punching power has nothing to do with functional strength in boxing? Punching is one of the main parts of the sport. Yet you think grappling is functional strength in boxing.

And I thought the picture of Jack Johnson I posted was good. He was a physical specimen in that picture and more ripped then the pictures of him you posted.

And yes Johnson is a little bigger then Marciano but he was a lighter puncher which I think makes him less functionally strong then Marciano in a important aspect of boxing. And I doubt Johnson would have been a better weight lifter then Marciano who with his short limbs has a great build for manipulating weights.


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## Seamus (Jun 4, 2013)

Another man-watching thread...

There are those who prefer the company of men.. at all times and in all situations. You know who you are.


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Seamus said:


> Another man-watching thread...
> 
> There are those who prefer the company of men.. at all times and in all situations. You know who you are.


I'll just call off those dinner reservations for two...


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## Brownies (Jun 7, 2013)

Watching the two fight, I'd say Johnson who looked unmovable in clinches. Marciano was stong, no doubt about it, but Johnson impresses me more in that area.


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