# Live Fast, Die Young: The Life and Times of Harry Greb



## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Hi Guys,

I just wanted to announce that my book on Greb is finally going to be released in June. It is 697 pages, has 553 photos (several of which have never been published), 1308 footnotes, and an appendix that includes Greb's complete record including amateur bouts, professional bouts, service bouts, and exhibitions. It is the most complete fighting record ever published for Greb and records W/L newspaper decisions based on which way the majority of ringside reports voted (no wire reports have been used which should add to the accuracy of the record). Retail Price is going to be either $39.95 or $44.95 depending on whether the book ends up being printed as either a 6x9 or 7x10. It is the culmination of 11 years of work and I really think fans of boxing and history in general will enjoy it. There is a ton of contextual material on Greb's opponents and what was going on in the sport during his career particularly in the middleweight, light heavyweight, and heavyweight divisions. I will post back here again as the release date gets closer.

Steve


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## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

Awesome.

City of @Klompton


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Klompton Great to hear. Have waited for years.


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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

superb...congrats...can i buy directly from you ??


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Yes, I will have a limited number of copies to sign and sell.


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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

put me down for one please


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Absolutely! :good


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## Yiddle (Jul 10, 2012)

Excellent cant wait 

11 years !!!


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## Yiddle (Jul 10, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> @Klompton Great to hear. Have waited for years.


Flea please don't make me wait eleven years for your book on Thai fighters


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Yiddle said:


> Flea please don't make me wait eleven years for your book on Thai fighters


I hope not mate! Luckily it doesn't go as far back in time with Klompton's, whilst learning how to read and write Thai is painstaking stuff, and I imagine trawling through archives of foreign language stuff is gonna' be horrible, I'm luckily in the position where I already have addresses and contact details for three of the books subjects already (hopefully a fourth as well)

I'm planning to move there in February '14. Do a year. Come back, write, work for six months. Do another year. Repeat until finished. Gimme' half a decade at most


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## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

Thank fuck! Buzzing for this


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Can't wait!


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Klompton said:


> Yes, I will have a limited number of copies to sign and sell.


I would like to get one from you as well
Man can't wait for this


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## BoxingAnalyst (Jun 4, 2012)

@Klumpton Great work, look forward to reading this!


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

I'm so fucking pumped.


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## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

@Klompton you hero! Fuck yeah!


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

Terrific. I will read, and then persist to never rate Greb below GOAT status. Congrats


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## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

Any update on a release date?


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## Meast (Jun 3, 2012)

Been waiting years for this, hope it's coming soon.


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## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Klompton said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I just wanted to announce that my book on Greb is finally going to be released in June. It is 697 pages, has 553 photos (several of which have never been published), 1308 footnotes, and an appendix that includes Greb's complete record including amateur bouts, professional bouts, service bouts, and exhibitions. It is the most complete fighting record ever published for Greb and records W/L newspaper decisions based on which way the majority of ringside reports voted (no wire reports have been used which should add to the accuracy of the record). Retail Price is going to be either $39.95 or $44.95 depending on whether the book ends up being printed as either a 6x9 or 7x10. It is the culmination of 11 years of work and I really think fans of boxing and history in general will enjoy it. There is a ton of contextual material on Greb's opponents and what was going on in the sport during his career particularly in the middleweight, light heavyweight, and heavyweight divisions. I will post back here again as the release date gets closer.
> 
> Steve


Great stuff mate, id buy it, there can never be enough material on Harry Greb and it sounds like you've really done your homework on this one. What a fighter he was, Id pay to see some footage of the great man in action.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Klompton No hyperbole here I am literally begging you to contact me as soon as you can, please.


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## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

Wait, Pete's a King over here, now?


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## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

I actually can't fuckin' wait to get this.


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## _RAC (Jan 11, 2013)

It's finally arrived!!! I'm so excited. 

I want a signed copy though.


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## Cuarenta (Jun 1, 2013)

Does it contain footage?







No but really I will be purchasing a copy


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

delete


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

Cuarenta said:


> Does it contain footage?
> 
> No but really I will be purchasing a copy


:lol:
I almost asked the same thing.

But either way, if this book is what you say it is, Bill Paxton can step aside!


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Klompton in the house!? arty


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## Yiddle (Jul 10, 2012)

when is this available


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## Seamus (Jun 4, 2013)

Stoked. Where will it be available?


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

YES!!! When and where?? This is Abdullah from the old place. You probably gathered that by my signature at the bottom of my post. Anyway, I am thrilled about this book. I would love to have a signed copy, Klompton. I can't wait to read this book. I have been waiting for years!!


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

On another note, did anyone tell Burt Bienstock about cheeckhookboxing? I would tell him, but I got banned yesterday intentionally for making a thread about this wonderful place. Someone please let Burt know, he would love it here.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

burt is here under burt brooks.

I believe the book is out this month. On amazon?


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Hi guys,

My book is finally going to be available for purchase within the next 3 to 15 business. Sorry for the delay. I know I said it would be out two months ago but there were issues with the proofs and I had to go through three seperate revisions. I have now approved the title for publication and it will be up for purchase shortly on sites like Amazon.com and Barnes and Noble. In addition to that I will have a limited amount for sale personally if you are interested in a signed copy. I really think you guys will enjoy it. It topped out at 715 pages. As stated before it has over 500 photos, 59 pages of notes and citations, and the most complete record ever published on Greb. There are tons of great stories in here not just about Greb but also about his opponents, contemporaries, and boxing in general during the 1910s and 1920s. Many of the photos and stories have not been published since they first took place. The book is a 7x10 case laminate hard cover and retails for $39.95 (although there may be a small discount from retailers. If that is the case I will match it). Im really pleased with how it turned out and think you guys will be as well. You can keep checking for it to pop up on Amazon but as soon I see it on the site I will bump this thread.


Steve


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## Surf-Bat (Jun 6, 2013)

Klompton said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> My book is finally going to be available for purchase within the next 3 to 15 business. Sorry for the delay. I know I said it would be out two months ago but there were issues with the proofs and I had to go through three seperate revisions. I have now approved the title for publication and it will be up for purchase shortly on sites like Amazon.com and Barnes and Noble. In addition to that I will have a limited amount for sale personally if you are interested in a signed copy. I really think you guys will enjoy it. It topped out at 715 pages. As stated before it has over 500 photos, 59 pages of notes and citations, and the most complete record ever published on Greb. There are tons of great stories in here not just about Greb but also about his opponents, contemporaries, and boxing in general during the 1910s and 1920s. Many of the photos and stories have not been published since they first took place. The book is a 7x10 case laminate hard cover and retails for $39.95 (although there may be a small discount from retailers. If that is the case I will match it). Im really pleased with how it turned out and think you guys will be as well. You can keep checking for it to pop up on Amazon but as soon I see it on the site I will bump this thread.
> 
> Steve


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Can i buy a copy off of you i cannot get things of amazon delivered to me for some reason?


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## thistle1 (Jun 7, 2013)

Klompton said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I just wanted to announce that my book on Greb is finally going to be released in June. It is 697 pages, has 553 photos (several of which have never been published), 1308 footnotes, and an appendix that includes Greb's complete record including amateur bouts, professional bouts, service bouts, and exhibitions. It is the most complete fighting record ever published for Greb and records W/L newspaper decisions* based on which way the majority of ringside reports *voted (no wire reports have been used which should add to the accuracy of the record). Retail Price is going to be either $39.95 or $44.95 depending on whether the book ends up being printed as either a 6x9 or 7x10. It is the culmination of 11 years of work and *I really think fans of boxing and history in general will enjoy it. There is a ton of contextual material on Greb's opponents and what was going on in the sport during his career particularly in the middleweight, light heavyweight, and heavyweight divisions.* I will post back here again as the release date gets closer.
> 
> Steve


this is exactly the route I took in mine too. Best of Luck, which is a tidal wave of support more than I ever got from you Klompton...


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## Jdempsey85 (Jan 6, 2013)

Gta v or Harry greb book??


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Theron said:


> Can i buy a copy off of you i cannot get things of amazon delivered to me for some reason?


Absolutely. We will figure something out and make sure you get a copy.


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## he grant (Jun 12, 2013)

Klompton said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> My book is finally going to be available for purchase within the next 3 to 15 business. Sorry for the delay. I know I said it would be out two months ago but there were issues with the proofs and I had to go through three seperate revisions. I have now approved the title for publication and it will be up for purchase shortly on sites like Amazon.com and Barnes and Noble. In addition to that I will have a limited amount for sale personally if you are interested in a signed copy. I really think you guys will enjoy it. It topped out at 715 pages. As stated before it has over 500 photos, 59 pages of notes and citations, and the most complete record ever published on Greb. There are tons of great stories in here not just about Greb but also about his opponents, contemporaries, and boxing in general during the 1910s and 1920s. Many of the photos and stories have not been published since they first took place. The book is a 7x10 case laminate hard cover and retails for $39.95 (although there may be a small discount from retailers. If that is the case I will match it). Im really pleased with how it turned out and think you guys will be as well. You can keep checking for it to pop up on Amazon but as soon I see it on the site I will bump this thread.
> 
> Steve


Great news Steve ..... I've literally got some pre-cum on the end of my knob since I read this! :happy:happy:happy


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Jdempsey85 said:


> Gta v or Harry greb book??


Buy my book but buy Last of Us before you buy GTA...

HE should I send some tissues with your copy?


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## Jdempsey85 (Jan 6, 2013)

Klompton said:


> Buy my book but buy Last of Us before you buy GTA...
> 
> HE should I send some tissues with your copy?


I shall be purchasing the book.

Played the last of us one of THE greatest games of all time.

Canelo v mayweather
Gta v
Harry greb book

All in September wow


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## janitor (Jun 28, 2013)

This is one of the most anticipated books ever for me!

I am a bit surprised by the title, because it almost gives a nod to some of the myths about Greb's lifestyle, which I fancied this book might dispel. 

Anyhow, time to live fast and enjoy the ride myself!


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

janitor said:


> This is one of the most anticipated books ever for me!
> 
> I am a bit surprised by the title, because it almost gives a nod to some of the myths about Greb's lifestyle, which I fancied this book might dispel.
> 
> Anyhow, time to live fast and enjoy the ride myself!


I look at the "live fast" portion differently. By saying that I dont mean he was necessarily wild, I mean the guy packed a lifetimes worth of living into 32 years. He was so busy he rarely had time to sit still, and thats the way he liked it. But dont get me wrong, there are still some pretty wild stories that are true. But yes, most of the myths are pretty overblown. The real story is much better in my opinion.


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Jdempsey85 said:


> Played the last of us one of THE greatest games of all time.


I agree. I was BLOWN AWAY by it. The older Ive gotten the harder it is for me to sit through a game for very long but I couldnt put that one down and when I beat it I turned right around and played through it again.


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Klompton said:


> Absolutely. We will figure something out and make sure you get a copy.


Awesome man, looking forward to this more than GTA v to be honest, cant wait to read it!

Looking forward to this more than anything else right now, when do you think i could get it by most likely?


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

http://www.amazon.com/Live-Fast-You...&qid=1377394433&sr=8-1&keywords=9780615805757


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Ordered.


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## Boogle McDougal (Jun 8, 2012)

I want this book like a hog wants slop. How do I get a signed copy?


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Send me a pm with your email and when I get the first shipment I will reserve a copy for you.


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Hi Guys. Amazon just put my book on sale at their website with a deep discount (which is good because it will generate sales and they take the hit) so I would jump on it if you are interested and want to pinch pennies. Its a major value.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Buying .


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

720 pages for 28 bucks......what the! I feel like I'm ripping you off. Are we allowed to spread the word over other sites?


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

It's massive. Not just thick but big. I threaten neighbors with it.


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## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

LittleRed said:


> It's massive. Not just thick but big. I threaten neighbors with it.


You sure you're talking about Klompton's book?


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

O59 said:


> You sure you're talking about Klompton's book?


Regardless.

:jjj


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Have you gotten it? It is big. I was surprised when I got the proof. I was pretty surprised that they discounted it so much. It doesnt effect me one bit thought, I still make the same. They are the ones taking the hit. I doubt it will last so I would jump on it. I mean, even if my writing sucks the photos alone are worth that. And yes, feel free to spread the word wherever you like. Id be interested in peoples thoughts when they get it.


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Klompton said:


> Have you gotten it? It is big. I was surprised when I got the proof. I was pretty surprised that they discounted it so much. It doesnt effect me one bit thought, I still make the same. They are the ones taking the hit. I doubt it will last so I would jump on it. I mean, even if my writing sucks the photos alone are worth that. And yes, feel free to spread the word wherever you like. Id be interested in peoples thoughts when they get it.


Came here this morning. Amazon Prime membership so rush order. I'm only up to the Joe Chip fight and I've learning stuff. Worth the wait. It's like an encyclopedia Greb.


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## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

LittleRed said:


> Came here this morning. Amazon Prime membership so rush order. I'm only up to the Joe Chip fight and I've learning stuff. Worth the wait. It's like an encyclopedia Greb.


Apologies if you've already mentioned it in the thread, but when did you order the book? I'm just wondering how long it took to reach you, I'll definitely buy it as soon as I possibly can.

Great work Klompton, I'm sure it will be an amazing read and I can't wait to get it. :thumbsup


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

LittleRed said:


> Came here this morning. Amazon Prime membership so rush order. I'm only up to the Joe Chip fight and I've learning stuff. Worth the wait. It's like an encyclopedia Greb.


Good, Im glad to hear it. I hope you enjoy it. How'd you like the stories about Mike Milko? That guy was a character wasnt he? I got a kick out of his little adventure the day before his wedding LOL.


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

O59 said:


> Apologies if you've already mentioned it in the thread, but when did you order the book? I'm just wondering how long it took to reach you, I'll definitely buy it as soon as I possibly can.
> 
> Great work Klompton, I'm sure it will be an amazing read and I can't wait to get it. :thumbsup


I ordered it Saturday but I've got prime membership so two day delivery. 


Klompton said:


> Good, Im glad to hear it. I hope you enjoy it. How'd you like the stories about Mike Milko? That guy was a character wasnt he? I got a kick out of his little adventure the day before his wedding LOL.


That's some Rube Waddell shit right there. A dangerously unstable human being. But a great strory


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Milko was a badass. Its a shame he didnt develop as a pro. He was an outstanding amateur. Come to think of it Pittsburgh had several amateur standouts that for whatever reason never developed as pros. John "Honey" Foley was another.


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## Surf-Bat (Jun 6, 2013)

Klompton said:


> Milko was a badass. Its a shame he didnt develop as a pro. He was an outstanding amateur. Come to think of it Pittsburgh had several amateur standouts that for whatever reason never developed as pros. John "Honey" Foley was another.


Good call. Leo Sweeney was another. Beat Charley Burley twice. An amazing amateur.


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Hi Guys

I now have an inventory of my new biography of Harry Greb to sign and send out. If you are still interested in purchasing a signed copy PM me your address so I can calculate shipping and get back to you.


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## natonic (Jun 13, 2012)

This book is amazing. It's the size and weight of a college physics book. I learned something within 2 minutes of opening it. Turns out I walk every day past a theatre Greb fought at.


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Really? Where do you live?


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## natonic (Jun 13, 2012)

I work in Altoona, PA (don't live there). It's the Mishler Theatre and I had no clue Greb fought there until I opened your book. Great, great book!


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Oh yeah? Thats cool. Ive never been there but Ive heard it still looks pretty much the same as when Greb fought there. Its cool when you find those kinds of connections. In researching this book I found that Billy Britton, one of Greb's opponents fought in my moms hometown which is a really small coal mining town here in Illinois. He fought at the theatre that her uncle used to work at. Then he fought in a couple of other towns close by. Ive passed by the three places he fought literally thousands of times and never knew they had boxing there much less someone who fought Greb. Another of Greb's opponents, Otis Bryant, was from Sikeston, Mo. Thats just a ways across the Mississippi from me. Ive been there dozens of times. Youd never believe they would have had boxing there, even in the 1910s and 20s when boxing was everywhere. One of these days Im going to spend some time at SEMO and in Sikeston researching Bryant. He was an interesting guy whose record is almost totally incomplete.


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## It's Ovah (Jun 6, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> I hope not mate! Luckily it doesn't go as far back in time with Klompton's, whilst learning how to read and write Thai is painstaking stuff, and I imagine trawling through archives of foreign language stuff is gonna' be horrible, I'm luckily in the position where I already have addresses and contact details for three of the books subjects already (hopefully a fourth as well)
> 
> I'm planning to move there in February '14. Do a year. Come back, write, work for six months. Do another year. Repeat until finished. Gimme' half a decade at most


Will await that with eager pleasure, Flea. SE Asian boxing, and Thai boxing in general is one of those great unplumbed depths that I've yet to really tackle, though I've at least begun, on your prompting. Keep at it, and know that you'll be adding a permanent and valuable resource to the Western reader's boxing knowledge-base when you're done.

And congratulations on completion of your project Klompton. Maybe a bit premature (or even insensitive) to ask, but any other projects in the pipeline? :hey


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

hi guys,

i just finished being interviewed about the book for a podcast airing tonight at boxingasylum.com. it was a lot fun. be sure to check it out.


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## Brownies (Jun 7, 2013)

Oh damn, I was out of town these past few weeks and didn't come here often. I'm ordering your book today ! Can't wait ! :bbb


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## Surf-Bat (Jun 6, 2013)

Klompton said:


> Oh yeah? Thats cool. Ive never been there but Ive heard it still looks pretty much the same as when Greb fought there. Its cool when you find those kinds of connections. In researching this book I found that Billy Britton, one of Greb's opponents fought in my moms hometown which is a really small coal mining town here in Illinois. He fought at the theatre that her uncle used to work at. Then he fought in a couple of other towns close by. Ive passed by the three places he fought literally thousands of times and never knew they had boxing there much less someone who fought Greb. Another of Greb's opponents, Otis Bryant, was from Sikeston, Mo. Thats just a ways across the Mississippi from me. Ive been there dozens of times. Youd never believe they would have had boxing there, even in the 1910s and 20s when boxing was everywhere. One of these days Im going to spend some time at SEMO and in Sikeston researching Bryant. He was an interesting guy whose record is almost totally incomplete.


Just found a few new ones for him. This one was particularly interesting (see footnote):


 1918-02-12Battling Ward

Opera House, Cape Girardeau, Missouri, USAWKO212Douglas Cavanaugh     referee: John Lando 
Cape County Herald. This was Bryant's "thirteenth" knockout. 


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

If anyone is interested I was interviewed for the BoxingAsylum podcast in regards to Greb. You can listen to it below. My part starts around 1:37.

boxingasylumpodcast dot tumblr dot com


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Klompton said:


> If anyone is interested I was interviewed for the BoxingAsylum podcast in regards to Greb. You can listen to it below. My part starts around 1:37.
> 
> boxingasylumpodcast dot tumblr dot com


Thanks for posting recently on this thread, if you didn't I wouldn't have ever seen this..

I really want to buy this book.


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## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

Just got the book, WOW! It's amazing. And huge, but not huge like it'll put you off, huge like it's packed full of information and rare pictures and newspaper cuttings and the like. I've read a little bit and it's really well written too.

Looking forward to getting stuck into this. Thanks @Klompton


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## Jdempsey85 (Jan 6, 2013)

Mine also came today,Its like a encyclopedia


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## Boogle McDougal (Jun 8, 2012)

I got the book in the mail last week. I had read a lot about Greb in anticipation of this project. Anything I could find, but I wasn't about to fork over the cash on the Paxton book when I knew this was in the pipeline. I figured why fuck around, be patient. The real deal is on the way. Well it was worth the wait, rest assured.

There is so much information, and so much happening at all times. It's as if you're with Greb every step of the way, and he was nothing less than a whirlwind of activity. Approaching this book I had so many questions. Just skimming around I have found pretty satisfying answers. It's great to have what finally seems to be a clear picture of this man. Sans film of course, but I have accepted that I may never see Greb in action. It doesn't really matter. People will still argue about what they've seen with their very own eyes. 

When I saw the blurb - "1308 footnotes, 59 pages of notes and citations" - I knew it was gonna be serious. Another poster's "physics book" comparison was apt, as well as the "Encyclopedia Greb." It is all of that. I have learned a lot already and I'm not even close to finished. I'm not sure where to go with discussion from here, I'm just enjoying the read. So if you're at all curious and you have questions like I did, just buy the damn book. It's all there.


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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

just ordered from amazon...looking forward to this now.
really well done fella....a remarkable achievement.


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## Jdempsey85 (Jan 6, 2013)

Mike milko fucking lunatic


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## jorodz (Sep 14, 2012)

Not that i needed convincing but you talked me into ordering it this second


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

It's an immense and quintessential piece of boxing literature.


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## johnmaff36 (Aug 3, 2012)

Got your book 2 weeks ago steve. The old man is over the moon with it and loved your message so many thanks for that.

He just phoned me to work about a query regarding Grebs record in the book, i'll PM you and you can enlighten me. No doubt it will be an oversight on his behalf.


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## janitor (Jun 28, 2013)

I have to wait till xmas day for mine, and if I am bad I will get a piece of coal instead!


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Hi Guys,

I just wanted to announce that now through January 2nd I am offering signed copies of my book for $35 and free shipping within the United States. Its a great deal compared to places like Amazon. If you are interested email me at [email protected]


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## jorodz (Sep 14, 2012)

Klompton said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I just wanted to announce that now through January 2nd I am offering signed copies of my book for $35 and free shipping within the United States. Its a great deal compared to places like Amazon. If you are interested email me at [email protected]


How bad's shipping to Canada? Cause that's a friggin steal


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

I'll have to check. Last time I checked it was ridiculous. Our shipping rates here in the states changed for international packages earlier in the year and shipping is now a ripoff even to Canada. They used to call Canada the 51st state, apparently the postal service didnt get that memo.


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## jorodz (Sep 14, 2012)

Klompton said:


> I'll have to check. Last time I checked it was ridiculous. Our shipping rates here in the states changed for international packages earlier in the year and shipping is now a ripoff even to Canada. They used to call Canada the 51st state, apparently the postal service didnt get that memo.


:lol:


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## Rise_Above (Jul 16, 2013)

Great stuff Klompton. I'll be sure to purchase when its released.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Ordered mine yesterday will be here wednesday :happy


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## jorodz (Sep 14, 2012)

@Klompton, you mind doing one for Sam Langford next?


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

jorodz said:


> @Klompton, you mind doing one for Sam Langford next?


Do you have issues with Clay Moyles?


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## jorodz (Sep 14, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Do you have issues with Clay Moyles?


:lol: not at all. my wife got me his book last christmas, just want another 600 page opus


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## Rise_Above (Jul 16, 2013)

Im currently writing something on an Aussie welterweight from the 1920's and 30's, I was wondering if you had to supply a bibliography for your Greb book Klompton?


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

I didnt supply a bibliography for two reasons: 1. I cited my sources in a notes section at the book of the book and any book I quoted from I cited there. 2. I didnt utilize very many books at all as sources in my research.


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## Rise_Above (Jul 16, 2013)

So mainly newspaper reports?


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Rise_Above said:


> So mainly newspaper reports?


Klompton uses newspapers all the way; many, many primary sources in fact.

This is the best way IMO. Hard for me to do so for my book so luckily I have friends who can read Thai!


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Rise_Above said:


> So mainly newspaper reports?


Yes I tried to get every newspaper from every town Greb appeared in so I would have as many eyewitness reports as possible. Greb's legacy had been so distorted by the time he was being mentioned in books that they are basically regurgitations of old untruths.


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## Rise_Above (Jul 16, 2013)

Ive been trawling newspapers for a few weeks now and have found some great first hand accounts for something Im writing. Out of curiosity, what other sources did you use for your book? Any relatives of Greb or did you strictly stick to his fights. 

One last thing, is your book available for e reader anywhere?


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## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

Got this for Christmas and I'm a few chapters in. Excellent so far

One question I have tho is regarding Greb's debut. Compton claims that Greb made his professional debut against Red Cumpston in a 'mysterious 6 rounder', and the pair fought a month later (Greb winning by KO) 'which are listed on early records for Greb, and even one published in the Pittsburg newspapers after his death' (I'm quoting from footnote 13 of chapter 2). 

I'm just wondering which Pittsburg newspapers this was in? Red Mason's account is full of factual mistakes as Steve says so I feel we have to take his recollection with a pinch of salt. Greb himself made no mention of the distance fight, instead focusing on the KO.

Neither of these bouts were covered by local newspapers, but the KO 'third' fight we have a referee account which seems legit, but are we sure the two fought over a 6 round distance? Boxrec have the Kirkwood fight Greb's debut (which has long been up for debate, I know), but can we categorically say the Greb fought Red Cumpston on the 5th April 1913, a fight which we have no idea who won for lack of newspaper coverage or first hand accounts of the fight?


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Vano-irons said:


> Got this for Christmas and I'm a few chapters in. Excellent so far
> 
> One question I have tho is regarding Greb's debut. Compton claims that Greb made his professional debut against Red Cumpston in a 'mysterious 6 rounder', and the pair fought a month later (Greb winning by KO) 'which are listed on early records for Greb, and even one published in the Pittsburg newspapers after his death' (I'm quoting from footnote 13 of chapter 2).
> 
> ...


Yes I believe the evidence is very strong that this six rounder took place. The simple fact that his earliest published records list the bout is enough for me alone as the Pittsburgh papers were very good at keeping records and the Post actually published its own record book for a while. These papers consistently list this bout on his record from their earliest publication to his death. However this is also corroborated by anecdotal accounts and circumstantial evidence as well (for instance the Dec 7, 1913 Pittsburgh Press makes mention of him turning pro against Cumpston after having defeated Cumpston in the amateurs he beat Cumpston in the pro bout as well and that Cumpston wanted revenge for this loss so Greb gave him another match and knocked him out). I think Mason's account is basically factual except for the fact that the location of the bout is incorrect and that the third bout was held a month later not a week later. I find this minor mistakes for an older man recounting minor events 13 years earlier. Also the fact that they (Cumpston and Greb) were already listed as ex-amateurs BEFORE the third Cumpston bout. I will have to dig up the early records that mention this bout.


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## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

Klompton said:


> Yes I believe the evidence is very strong that this six rounder took place. The simple fact that his earliest published records list the bout is enough for me alone as the Pittsburgh papers were very good at keeping records and the Post actually published its own record book for a while. These papers consistently list this bout on his record from their earliest publication to his death. However this is also corroborated by anecdotal accounts and circumstantial evidence as well (for instance the Dec 7, 1913 Pittsburgh Press makes mention of him turning pro against Cumpston after having defeated Cumpston in the amateurs he beat Cumpston in the pro bout as well and that Cumpston wanted revenge for this loss so Greb gave him another match and knocked him out). I think Mason's account is basically factual except for the fact that the location of the bout is incorrect and that the third bout was held a month later not a week later. I find this minor mistakes for an older man recounting minor events 13 years earlier. Also the fact that they (Cumpston and Greb) were already listed as ex-amateurs BEFORE the third Cumpston bout. I will have to dig up the early records that mention this bout.


Thanks for the reply. After reading that I tend to agree with you. All the evidence points to the fight taking place. Mason's account is just an old man recalling something and it is slightly wrong which is understandable given the timeframe.

Really enjoying the book so far, and I'll no doubt be asking a few more questions at some point just to brush up on my knowledge


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

im glad u are enjoying it. ask away any time. its my pleasure.


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## Surf-Bat (Jun 6, 2013)

My review: What can I say that hasn't been said already? It's fantastic. I loved every page. It's "everything there will ever be to know about Harry Greb" and then some. It's the final word. I really admire the passion, perseverance and hard work that went into this. Definitely a labor of love across the board, which is something I can really appreciate. 

The book really captured the times in a way that completely absorbed me. With WW I raging in the background we get to follow Harry throughout his high velocity life. Every moment seemed to need to be filled for him or his head would explode. You had to admire that kind of energy. How he managed to stay so focused on boxing and build his life around it is something that you just don't see today, where pugilism is nothing more than a lucrative pastime to be engaged in a couple times per year. 

With so many fights to cover, Compton was faced with the daunting task of trying to make each fight report something worth reading. The risk of redundancy and regurgitated phrasing must have presented a gargantuan obstacle to overcome. Amazingly, the author manages to accomplish a way of presenting each fight in a fresh and interesting manner. By the way, the description of the Greb-Walker fight was exhausting. No newspaper account of any fight has ever pulled me in deeper than that. Very gripping and vivid. 

One definitely walks away with a bit less respect for Gene Tunney, Johnny Wilson, Mike McTigue and Al McCoy (not that there was much for McCoy in the first place). Their out of the ring demands, tippy-toeing and straight up circumventions get tiresome after awhile. In light of that, one really begins to appreciate and respect the fighting ethics of men like Greb, Benny Leonard, Jeff Smith and Mike Gibbons, all of whom would fight anyone at any time, didn't drag their feet or make prima donna demands. 

I hated to see this ride end.


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Wow thanks man! That means a lot! Im really glad you enjoyed it!

Speaking of Greb's early career: Here is a little bit of trivia that never made it into the book: KO Kirkwood aka Ray Woods aka Ray Kirkwood later went to hollywood, acted for a time, and eventually became a movie producer. He acted in such films as "The Sea Wolf" and "The Egg Crate Wallop."


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## janitor (Jun 28, 2013)

Santa left this under the tree for me!


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## Surf-Bat (Jun 6, 2013)

Klompton said:


> Wow thanks man! That means a lot! Im really glad you enjoyed it!
> 
> Speaking of Greb's early career: Here is a little bit of trivia that never made it into the book: KO Kirkwood aka Ray Woods aka Ray Kirkwood later went to hollywood, acted for a time, and eventually became a movie producer. He acted in such films as "The Sea Wolf" and "The Egg Crate Wallop."


Interesting indeed. I looked up the film. Looks like DeWitt Van Court had a role too (as well as other fighters): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0010083/


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## McGrain (Jul 6, 2012)

Jdempsey85 said:


> Mike milko fucking lunatic


:lol: literally my favourite thing about the book.


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## Jdempsey85 (Jan 6, 2013)

Loving it the story about that guy with a gun greb comes along and kos him!


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## Jdempsey85 (Jan 6, 2013)

So Chris Eubank + Harry Greb carried a cane :lol:


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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

to my shame i am only now giving the book my full attention...wonderful start to it....i have a mental image of pius, harrys father as being very like an eddie kessler type character from boardwalk empire.
one thing that confused me so far....and bear with me if i am missing something obvious...is that it is guessed in the booked that greb had his first pro bout with stoney ritz in 1912, although the book states this cannot be collaborated....but in march 1913 greb took part in an amateur tournament....so could the 1912 pro bout with ritz have taken place before this ?
were there many boxers at the time who could have gone to amateur after pro bouts....i'm guessing answer has to do with records of the time and boxers changing names ??


btw....an amazing amount of such great photos and i love the way they are spread through the book in order to what you are reading, and not lumped in the middle of the book like most books are where you have to search back to reference the photo you are looking at.
really looking forward to rest of this.


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Hi Doug,

Glad you are enjoying it! The Stoney Ritz fight cannot be corroborated because of the possibility that Greb was using an alias and the simple fact that it is not mentioned in the Wheeling newspapers for 1912/1913. The basic premise, if the story is true, is that Greb briefly ran away from home, went to Wheeling, had a pro fight against Ritz and then returned to Pittsburgh. The fight never made it on the books and sometime later Greb entered the amateur ranks which is documented. I doubt this story will be proven or dis proven and Im not sure what to believe myself.


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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

if I ask too many questions please tell me 

maybe this will answer itself later as I read on.....but after skipper manning handed management of greb over to red mason, did he continue to train greb ?

also...mike milko...what a story that was 

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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

doug.ie said:


> if I ask too many questions please tell me
> 
> maybe this will answer itself later as I read on.....but after skipper manning handed management of greb over to red mason, did he continue to train greb ?
> 
> ...


Ask away, no bother at all.

I dont think Skipper Manning worked with Greb after he turned pro. I dont really think he managed him. I believe he was more of an early informal tutor.


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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

so was red mason training greb as well as managing / matchmaking ?
or was it al grayber who was doing main training ? (even though he was an active boxer himself)

edit : as I read on...was red robinson acting as his trainer early on?

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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

must have been so hard following boxing back then...if you didnt see a fight you could read 3 different newspapers the next day and get different results and reports of who did what

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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Luckily with Greb he was so consistent that for the most part you dont have to worry about divergent newspaper reports.

I think Red Mason was more of a conditioner than a trainer. That being said Greb was primarily self taught, picking up what he could use from anyone he could learn from. He never had a "trainer" per se, in fact in those days boxing was different from today where fighters have a set trainer. Most fighters in that era didnt have a set trainer. You often see written in the old newspaper reports phrases such as "Greb arrived with his trainer Leo Caghil today." This didnt mean that Leo Caghil was training Greb. It meant that Caghil was a sparring partner. Sparring partners were often called "trainers" in those days. This misconception led Paxton to label Caghil Greb's boxing trainer. Nothing could be further from the truth. Greb learned to fight by going to the gym and working with or watching other fighters such as Grayber, Crouse, Ray, Robinson, and many others and of course by fighting the stellar competition he faced. When he became a truly great fighter he was extremely adept at picking out opponents weaknesses and devising a strategy to beat them. He either did this on the fly, in the ring, or worked on it in camp prior to the bouts. Guys like Red Mason, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Willie Lewis, and George Engel served merely to refine certain aspects of his game and condition him, they did not serve as a trainer in the traditional sense of the word. Neither did Grayber, Crouse, Ray, and Robinson who all worked with Greb when he was coming up, using him as a sparring partner and imparting wisdom on him but none worked as a formal trainer for him.

I believe this to be very common during this era based on what I have read and what I have seen on film.


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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

thanks....this is a wonderful read.
a boxing reporter named jim jab ...wonder if that was his real name

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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Jim Jab's real name was Alfred Cratty. He was a doctor who administered to whores in the red light district when he wasnt being Pittsburgh's chief carmudgeon and conspiracy theorist. In my opinion he was the worst boxing writer in Pittsburgh at the time.


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## Surf-Bat (Jun 6, 2013)

"I monkeyed with him. But you couldn't learn him anything. Harry was just a natural-born fighter."-- Jack "Pappy" Metz, amateur trainer of Greb, Fritzie Zivic, Jack Zivic, etc. Pittsburgh Post-Gazette 1/30/1948


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

There were about a dozen guys who claimed to have early on worked with Greb but if you picture a cramped, crowded basement gym with a handful of old heads barking encouragement or tips at the young hopefuls training there you probably have a pretty good idea just how formal this "training" was that they gave Greb. Even Metz would later admit that he never helped Greb because Greb was, as Surf pointed out, a natural fighter.


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## Duo (Jun 14, 2012)

Surf-Bat said:


> "I *monkeyed* with him. But you couldn't learn him anything. Harry was just a natural-born fighter."-- Jack "Pappy" Metz, amateur trainer of Greb, Fritzie Zivic, Jack Zivic, etc. Pittsburgh Post-Gazette 1/30/1948


"Monkeyed" was Pappy's code for teaching the laws of the jungle censored out of the works of Edgar Rice Burroughs by Frank Munsey for Argosy. But Metz somehow obtained a copy of the unedited Tarzan of the Apes manuscript as Burroughs originally wrote it, and used it to teach pugilistic blasphemy to Greb and Fritzie. Between Harry and Fritzie, 97% of all boxing's extracurricular tricks were applied in the squared circle. One has to wonder if Metz was being modest, or pleading the Fifth while teaching the Filth. (Champ Thomas was a mere "Grasshopper," compared to these guys. Nowadays, cheating is nothing more than butting and PED use.)


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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

wow.....deaf / mute 'silent' martin...who was guided in his corner in fights by equally mute / deaf manager fred meinken...using sign language !!

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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

doug.ie said:


> wow.....deaf / mute 'silent' martin...who was guided in his corner in fights by equally mute / deaf manager fred meinken...using sign language !!
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2


Yup, decades before Gene Hairston needed lights on the corner posts to indicate the end of a round.

BTW I picture Pius as being much more stern and less loveable than Kessler (from one of my favorite shows, even if they take a lot of license with the facts).


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## Surf-Bat (Jun 6, 2013)

Klompton said:


> There were about a dozen guys who claimed to have early on worked with Greb but if you picture a cramped, crowded basement gym with a handful of old heads barking encouragement or tips at the young hopefuls training there you probably have a pretty good idea just how formal this "training" was that they gave Greb. Even Metz would later admit that he never helped Greb because Greb was, as Surf pointed out, a natural fighter.


Indeed he was! Metz worked with Harry Palmer too and several other successful Pittsburgh boys. He was a much loved and admired figure who got mad and sorta disowned any of his amateurs who went pro. Strange, huh? He called Jack Zivic the best fighter he ever trained.


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Fritzie gets more press but even he would admit that his brothers Jack and Pete were probably better than him.


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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

i'm only half way through it, and i know i am going to treasure this book.

amazes me how by 1918 greb had gone through so many trilogies and series in the pittsburgh area...losing some..getting revenge later...by the time end of 1918 comes in the book you feel like you have read about a very long career that must be coming to a natural end...but he was only starting really and coming into his prime.....with the way boxing is in the modern age you think of boxers having hard fights as wearing them down or ageing them...but greb just thrived and improved on wars...sometimes 3 in a week....its kinda mind-blowing reading it.
what a year 1919 was for him...such great reading....and getting married (fantastic wedding dinner (breakfast) photo too in book) and boarding a train to next fight venue that evening !!....like the book says he really did live every minute.
i wonder if he were around today would modern trainers ruin his natural style and try to make him more orthodox...i keep thinking as i am reading too that he was ran down most of the time in some of them before-end of 1919 fights, as he's had a couple of bad times with the boils on his head, which i think is a sign of being ran down...i'm guessing in them days a lot of boxers may have been ran down like that.
again...its mind blowing to read about all his wars before end of 1919 and he was improving all the time....just doesnt compute 
its was good to read the part where you explained the feeling of the times when in syracuse greb addressed the crowd one evening from the ring saying he would never fight a 'nig*er'...another book may have moved on from that but you explained the tensions surrounding the red summer of 1919 and how things were then...it put it into proper context.
nice little sub-stories too with interesting info...like jack dempsey suffering broken ribs against john lester johnson...pre- doc kearns days.
up to 1918-19 i couldnt help but wonder if red was best manager for him seeing as he seemed to be boxing in the same area so much and multiple times against opponents he had bested..but things changed a lot in 1919 in fairness.
in short...i'm loving this book.....totally engrossed in it.


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## Jdempsey85 (Jan 6, 2013)

The kirk vs ray incident was quite violent!Should have happened to Mayweather after the Ortiz shambles


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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

just finished it.
it was an absolute pleasure and privilege to read that.

I have a few questions tumbling around my head after reading it all. .but main one is. what happened to the films of his fights?..book mentions a few filmings (gibbons, walker, ted moore milk fund fight, etc) ..he was shown at the cinema

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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Hi sorry Im just seeing this. 

Thank you so much for your kind words and Im really glad you enjoyed it.

Yes I had a lot of fun researching and writing about Greb's early career and was surprised just how deep and competetive it was long before he ever got close to a title shot. I felt it was important to frame the 1919 incident with Panama Joe Gans within its proper context because in his book Kevin Smith tried to build Gans up at Greb's expense, fabricated one incident and then insinuated that Greb was either racist or scared of Gans despite later tacking on a short blurb about the red summer of 1919 (so he knew the circumstances under which Greb refused to face Gans but largely ignored them). As I said in the book, in reality Greb probably had little to no idea who Gans was and had already faced better fighters than Gans. His use of the N-word should also not be taken out of context as pointing to him being racist. That word was used a lot more openly and without the negative connotations than we can possibly imagine today (my grandmother isnt racist at all and she still uses the word, it was, by and large, a term that people were simply brought up with) and to Greb's credit when he saw that Gans was offended by its use he apologized, again, not out of fear but out of the same mutual respect he always showed black fighters.

As to the films, well, they went the same way MANY MANY films have gone. Something like 90 percent of ALL FILMS prior to WW2 have been lost. Not just boxing but ALL FILMS. That should give you an idea of just how precarious the status of films from Greb's lifetime are. These films were highly flammible, could spontaneously combust, and were given to deterioration even in good conditions. In short they were seen as more of a short term money making venture and werent designed to be preserved for posterity. Here is a short list I made of fights that were filmed but are now lost. There are many more. As you can see, Greb isnt the only victim of this tragedy:

Al Corbett Vs Red Chapman 
Archie Bradley Vs Harry Stone
Arthur Pelkey Vs. Luther McCarty
Battling Nelson Vs Terry McGovern
Battling Nelson Vs Dick Hyland
Benny Bass Vs Harry Blitman
Benny Bass Vs Red Chapman
Bill Squires Vs. Mike Williams
Billy Conn Vs. Tony Zale
Billy Papke Vs Georges Bernard
Billy Papke Vs Jim Sullivan
Billy Wells Vs Bandsman Blake
Bob Fitzsimmons Vs Gus Ruhlin
Bob Fitzsimmons Vs Jack O'Brien
Carl Morris Vs Mike Schreck
Danny Frush Vs Johnny Kilbane
Eddie McGoorty Vs Dave Smith
Fernand Quendreux Vs Astier
Frank Klaus Vs Marcel Moreau
Frank Moran Vs Billy Wells
Frankie Genaro Vs Bushy Graham
Fred Fulton Vs Carl Morris
Fred Fulton Vs Charlie Weinert
Freddie Welsh Vs Jack Daniels
Freddie Welsh Vs Willie Ritchie
Georges Carpentier Vs Billy Wells
Georges Carpentier Vs George Gunther
Georges Carpentier Vs Gunboat Smith
Georges Carpentier Vs Jim Sullivan
Georges Carpentier Vs Joe Jeanette
Gunboat Smith Vs Arthur Pelkey
Gunner Moir Vs Tiger Smith 
Harry Greb Vs Tommy Gibbons
Harry Greb Vs Ted Moore
Harry Greb Vs Mickey Walker
Harry Wills Vs Jack Sharkey
Henry Armstrong Vs. Lew Jenkins
Hughie Mehegen Vs Matt Wells
Jack Delaney Vs Tony Marullo
Jack Dempsey Vs Fred Fulton
jack Dempsey Vs Carl Morris
Jack Johnson exhibition while in prison
Jack Johnson Vs Bob Roper
Jack Sharkey Vs. Jimmy Maloney 2
Jim Coffey Vs Jim Flynn
Jim Corbett Vs Jim Jeffries
Jim Corbett Vs Kid McCoy (not sure if this is the staged fight they did before a back drop or the real one)
Jim Jeffries Vs Bob Fitzsimmons (The lighting was too bad to make the film commercially successful)
Jimmy Britt Vs Johnny Summers
Jimmy Clabby Vs Frank Logan
Jimmy Slattery Vs Jack Lynch
Jimmy Slattery Vs Jack Burke
Joe Bonds Vs Dick O'Brien
Joe Louis Vs Lou Nova
Johnny Kilbane Vs George Chaney
Johnny Risko Vs Victorio Campollo
Kid McCoy Vs Peter Maher
Luis Firpo Vs Sailor Maxted
Luis Firpo Vs Jack McAuliffe
Luther McCarty Vs Al Palzer
Marcel Cerdan Vs. Holman Williams
Maxie Rosenbloom Vs Leo Kelly 1
Maxie Rosenbloom Vs Leo Kelly 2
Maxie Rosenbloom Vs George Simpson
Mickey Walker Vs Dave Shade
Mike Gibbons Vs Soldier Bartfield
Mike Gibbons Vs Young Ahearn
Packey McFarland Vs Matt Wells
Paul Berlenbach Vs Mike McTigue
Paul Berlenbach Vs Young Stribling
Pedlar Palmer Vs Dick Burge
Pete Latzo Vs Joe Dundee
Ray Bronson Vs Sid Sullivan
Rocky Kansas Vs Jimmy Goodrich
Saint Didier Vs Joe Gans (not that Joe Gans)
Ruby Goldstein Vs Tony Vaccarelli
Sam Langford Vs Iron Hague
Sam Langford Vs Jack Lester
Sam Langford Vs Sam McVea Paris 1911
Sam Langford Vs Sam McVea Sydney 1912
Stanislaus Loayza Vs Phil McGraw
Ted Kid Lewis Vs Marcel Thomas
Terry McGovern Vs George Dixon
Terry McGovern Vs Young Corbett
Tiger Flowers Vs Ray Neuman
Tom Heeney Vs Otto Von Porat
Tom Sharkey Vs Kid McCoy
Tommy Burns Vs Bill Squires 2
Willie Lewis Vs Jack Costello (Im fairly certain I have some of this but I cant confirm who Lewis is fighting as I dont know what Costello looks like)
Young Griffo VS Battling Charles Barnett
Young Griffo V Campbell
Young Kloby Vs Eddie Shevlin 1 and 2
1918 Interallied Boxing Tournament
Jimmy Wilde Vs Digger Evans
Cal Delany Vs E. J. Swinnerton
Augie Ratner Vs S. I. Fullerton
Bomb. Billy Wells Vs. Joe Beckett
Mike O'Dowd Vs Sgt W. Ring
Eddie Coulon Vs Peakes
Johnny Basham Vs Tierney
Pal Moore Vs Jimmy Wilde
Bomb. Billy Wells Vs Eddie McGoorty
Joe Beckett Vs R. G. Stephenson
Mike O'Dowd Vs Dick SMith


As you can see we are extremely lucky to have the wonderful films that still exist. Boxing fans are quite simply spoiled as our sport has more film coverage dating back 120 years than any other sport by far. In fact I would venture to guess that there is more footage of boxing than of all other sports combined prior to WW2.


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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

thanks...again ...great info

such a great collection of photos in the book, but the one i liked most was the 1921 happy littleton one where they are posing before the fight.....greb looks granite in it and you just know you are looking at someone special.

the book talks of the nose operation being the main factor in his death, but could the eye removal operation have contributed ?

do you know what became of his daughter ?

told you i had a lot of questions


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

No I dont think the eye operation was at issue. There were a lot of factors that contributed to his death: the car crash, the dangerous use of nitrous oxide at that time in anaesthesia, etc. We wont really know for certain what the actual cause of death was but I dont think the eye operation had anything to do with it.

His daughter was raised by Greb's sister Ida. She didnt remember much about her father. She lived in and around Pittsburgh all of her life. She eventually married a man named Phillip Wohlfarth and finally died in 2001.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Klompton said:


> No I dont think the eye operation was at issue. There were a lot of factors that contributed to his death: the car crash, the dangerous use of nitrous oxide at that time in anaesthesia, etc. We wont really know for certain what the actual cause of death was but I dont think the eye operation had anything to do with it.
> 
> His daughter was raised by Greb's sister Ida. She didnt remember much about her father. She lived in and around Pittsburgh all of her life. She eventually married a man named Phillip Wohlfarth and finally died in 2001.


Left a review on amazon co uk site today; thanks so much for bringing this book into our lives...and check your email when you get a chance :good


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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

Klompton said:


> His daughter was raised by Greb's sister Ida. She didnt remember much about her father.


thats a shame.

if in a hundred years time boxing historians do research on greb...then your book will be a reference for sure.

thanks for answering my questions.

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*wonder if greb would have enjoyed watching armstrong's and willie pep's careers had he lived


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Thanks man. Im really glad you enjoyed it so much. Yes its sad that Ida didnt remember much about her father but she was only seven when he died so its understandable.


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## johnmaff36 (Aug 3, 2012)

Gentlemen, I haven't got round to reading the book yet as my ol man still has it but id like to ask a question to anyone who has read both books, or Steve himself, (the one from a few years back). Whats sets this book apart from the other Grab book?

I tell you why I ask. I have a friend who is massively into Greb. Hes an ex-pro himself and sparred some some great fighters in his day, world champs like Villasana and Esparragoza and he does know his stuff, but since I brought him to attention of Steves book he seems to be, how can I put it, somewhat dismissive and at first thought it was the same book he has. Then he claimed it must be a rip off of the other book when he realised it wasn't the same one. Now don't get me wrong, hes not being nasty, he just hasn't read Steves book and I have explained to him the time,effort and work put into this but I cant really explain it properly as ive yet to read it.
Im sure once he reads it himself he see the differences and going by the reviews on here, its certainly a cracking read, but fuck that, im not giving it to him first before I read it.

If anyone could give me bullet points on what sets this book apart from the other it would be greatly appreciated.

Im sure Steve knows I don't mean any disrespect by asking this, its purely to get my point across without actually having read it just yet and to get a bit of peace


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

I'll let the others who have read both answer this question but I will say that I didnt rip anyone off. In fact Paxton wrote me more than once asking me questions (which I didnt answer) about Greb before I knew he was writing a book. My book is as thoroughly researched as any book on any boxer ever written. Im not boasting it just is. But more to the point, anyone who thinks I simply followed Paxton needs to realize I started my book long before he even dreamed of writing a book on Greb. His book's genesis began with his website which was in existence before I began working on my book but the plethora of factual mistakes on both his website and in his book illustrate that my work was in no way derivative. Furthermore my book and the numerous places it deviates from Paxton's are supported by a massive amount of first hand sources. Not a mere sprinkling of first hand sources glued together by inaccurate wire reports, James Fairs slanderously inaccurate biography, and old mistake riddled magazine articles. This is obvious when you compare the books from top to bottom. 

An illustration of this can be seen in Paxton's description of Greb's birth and mine. Paxton describes Greb being born in a car on a street corner. Ludicrous. There were handful of cars in 1894 and most if not all were in the hands of their inventors. Paxton cribbed this little story from an old magazine article that reproduced a certified copy of Greb's birth certificate. The address of his birth is given as the corner of Dauphin and Fitch. The article stated that Greb was so tough he was born in the back seat of a car on the way to the hospital. Wrong, and had Paxton done the research I had he would have known. Dauphin and Fitch streets changed names by the time Greb was a young child. One became Millvale Ave (the street on which Greb was born) and the other became Alhambra Way (I think, Id have to go back and check my plat map). Anyway, a quick look at plat maps before Greb's birth and later in his life reveal that the corner of Dauphin and Fitch became 138 N. Millvale Ave when the street names changed. 138 N. Millvale Ave is the address that Greb's parents lived at before he was born and after he died. Greb was born at home. The certificate lists Mary Werle as administering during his birth. Werle was a seamstress who worked part time as a midwife and brought Greb's sister into this world. Greb was born at home under the care of a midwife, not in a car. Had I simply been aping Paxton I would have gotten that wrong. 

Another example is Paxton's belief that Greb married his childhood sweetheart, and that she was the same sweetheart he had in 1915 or 1916. Incorrect. Greb had been seeing his future wife only about a year or so when they married. She was so young when they married that she needed her mothers permission on the marriage license. In 1915 or 1916 she would have been about 14 years old or so. Highly unlikely that her mother would have let her run around with a boxer at that age (This is besides the fact that Greb's girlfriend in 1915/1916 was from a different part of Penn. than his wife). I could literally go on and on but the bottom line is my book is far better researched, far more comprehensive, and far more accurate than Paxton's in addition to being the same price and almost four times as long.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

johnmaff36 said:


> Gentlemen, I haven't got round to reading the book yet as my ol man still has it but id like to ask a question to anyone who has read both books, or Steve himself, (the one from a few years back). Whats sets this book apart from the other Grab book?
> 
> I tell you why I ask. I have a friend who is massively into Greb. Hes an ex-pro himself and sparred some some great fighters in his day, world champs like Villasana and Esparragoza and he does know his stuff, but since I brought him to attention of Steves book he seems to be, how can I put it, somewhat dismissive and at first thought it was the same book he has. Then he claimed it must be a rip off of the other book when he realised it wasn't the same one. Now don't get me wrong, hes not being nasty, he just hasn't read Steves book and I have explained to him the time,effort and work put into this but I cant really explain it properly as ive yet to read it.
> Im sure once he reads it himself he see the differences and going by the reviews on here, its certainly a cracking read, but fuck that, im not giving it to him first before I read it.
> ...


Not being rude but your friend doesn't know what he's talking about.

I have both: loved the Paxton book but saw some problems with it.

Now I've read the new book Paxtons is laughably bad, flimsy, not comprehensive, it's just an awful, awful book.

I loved 'Live Fast, Die Young', it's an important book and truly the definitive article on Greb

EDIT: Massive props to your mate for sparring those two though, I love the 80s featherweights!


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Just waiting for it to arrive, cant wait to read it!


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## AlFrancis (Jun 6, 2012)

Mine arrived yesterday, I'll be making a start on it tonight.


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## johnmaff36 (Aug 3, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Not being rude but your friend doesn't know what he's talking about.
> 
> I have both: loved the Paxton book but saw some problems with it.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you Flea Man (I know your not being rude), he doesn't know what hes talking about regarding the book but I cant give him a good argument about it having yet to read it myself. It seems to me that having read the book from the 40s (I don't know it myself but he says he has it) plus the Paxton book, has made him a bit of an authority, so to speak, on Greb and he does know his stuff on Harry (in our wee part of the world), but im beginning to think he maybe somewhat jealous of this new book out that he hasn't been aware off until I brought it to his attention.

I know, or should I say, im 100% confident having read the posts on here regarding Steves book, that he will concede to its superiority over Paxtons once he has read it but,again, im fked if im lending him it before ive got a chance to read it. My old man is taking his time reading it but has told me (as ive already told steve) that's its the best boxing book hes read.

Im only really looking bullet points to throw his way regarding the difference in the 2 books,and I suppose im being lazy asking this in here, but thanks for the reply
anyway


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

johnmaff36 said:


> I completely agree with you Flea Man (I know your not being rude), he doesn't know what hes talking about regarding the book but I cant give him a good argument about it having yet to read it myself. It seems to me that having read the book from the 40s (I don't know it myself but he says he has it) plus the Paxton book, has made him a bit of an authority, so to speak, on Greb and he does know his stuff on Harry (in our wee part of the world), but im beginning to think he maybe somewhat jealous of this new book out that he hasn't been aware off until I brought it to his attention.
> 
> I know, or should I say, im 100% confident having read the posts on here regarding Steves book, that he will concede to its superiority over Paxtons once he has read it but,again, im fked if im lending him it before ive got a chance to read it. My old man is taking his time reading it but has told me (as ive already told steve) that's its the best boxing book hes read.
> 
> ...


Trust me, if he's read those, he just knows regurgitated myths about Greb.

I'm not over egging Klomptons book at all when I say this but it blows all the myths out the water, fills in all the gaps, explains EVERY FUCKING FIGHT using as many primary sources as pissible and brings many things to light about Grebs career, opponents and life that none of us even knew were out there.

Klompton is THE authority on Greb. And he's put it into an epic tome for us all to catch up with him :good

P.S The Paxton book really is abysmal. I enjoyed it when I read it but now it's pathetic, it really is. Not being harsh to Paxton, I'm sure it took a lot of time and effort to put it together but if you're putting out a product with many, many flaws it's not worth putting it out there IMO


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

Above is a picture illustrating what I am talking about. Pius Greb bought that property on April 4, 1892 for $540 from John Douglas Long of McKeesport. At the time it had no address. It was simply listed as the corner of Dauphin and Fitch. As can be seen here Fitch became Millvale Ave and Dauphin became Broad. Greb's parents lived there the rest of their lives and it remained in the family until the 1950s.


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## Royal-T-Bag (Jun 5, 2013)

that's fucking excellent dude. will cop, respect.


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## Surf-Bat (Jun 6, 2013)

That's Garfield, right? Dang, look at all those Irish and German surnames! Pittsburgh definitely had its ethnic enclaves back then. Right next to Garfield was Bloomfield, an Italian neighborhood (and still is to this day I think).


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)




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## Jdempsey85 (Jan 6, 2013)

Just finished this Greb Bible,Incredible.Its the 1st time ive read a book where im literally on the edge of my seat reading the fight reports vs Norfolk,Tunney,Walker...etc.

The injuries Greb sustained throughout his fighting days were a shock yet he was back in the ring within a couple of weeks not fully healed.

Tunney,Mctigue and Wilson all come across really poorly,Adrien Broner is a angel compared to these.

A quality book thanks


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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

I was posting this on esb but just in case you see it here first...

@klomton

i know we have been over this bit before....the street tussle that greb and walker had in the early hours of the morning after their fight....and how it probably didnt happen......but i have been reading bits online taken from doc kearns memoirs 'days of wine and bloody noses' and he recalls it almost the same as walker did.


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## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

Paxton's book on Greb was awful. It was incredibly poorly written and didn't flow at all.


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

doug.ie said:


> I was posting this on esb but just in case you see it here first...
> 
> @klomton
> 
> i know we have been over this bit before....the street tussle that greb and walker had in the early hours of the morning after their fight....and how it probably didnt happen......but i have been reading bits online taken from doc kearns memoirs 'days of wine and bloody noses' and he recalls it almost the same as walker did.


I answered this on ESB but: Considering no version of that story has Kearns present I fail to see how he could be considered a credible witness. More to the point he wrote that memoir decades after Walker concocted that story and as such its no suprise that his version would be so similar since he cribbed it directly from Walker. Some people want desperately for that story to be true, not the least of which is Walker, but in reality in a ring, with rules, and referee to protect him Walker got his ass royally handed to him and sprouted so many leaks after Greb beat him to ribbons that he looked like a salt shaker. Walker was so spent after the fight, having completely shot his bolt and left everything in the ring, that when he lost he buried his head in his towel and cried. He was then taken to polyclinic hospital where he had his numerous cuts stitched and was then taken back to his hotel where his sparring partners took turns applying ice packs to him. Does anyone logically and realistically believe that a guy this exhausted and beat up miraculously got up, spent the night getting roaring drunk, and then in the wee hours of the morning picked a fight with the bigger, fresher, stronger, faster guy who just hours before handed him a royal ass kicking? Never mind the fact that the guys who were actually with Greb all stated to a man the story was false, and nobody but Walker, and much later Kearns, placed Walker anywhere near Greb and co until nearly a decade after Greb's death...


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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

I believe you klompton.
must give your book a second read...it deserves it.

not only has film of greb v walker gone...it was also broadcast on radio which must have been good to listen to...especially blow by blow format of them days


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

doug.ie said:


> I believe you klompton.
> must give your book a second read...it deserves it.
> 
> not only has film of greb v walker gone...it was also broadcast on radio which must have been good to listen to...especially blow by blow format of them days


It was also the first time that fighters were interviewed ringside before/after a fight which is now a standard of the sport.


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## doug.ie (Jun 3, 2012)

@Klompton.....this is a little off topic here, but didnt know where else to post, and thought you were the man to ask.

i've been looking for a little info on al roberts.....a few months after greb beat mickey shannon in 1920, roberts beat him, killing him as roberts head hit the post seemingly from a knockdown blow from roberts....now i read that roberts was arrested after the fight and charged with manslaughter, but have no other info after that as to what happened....thought you might know.

i've gone over that part in your book, a nice photo of shannon and it does mention he died in a bout later......little bits of info from the book like mike gibbons training shannon while they were in an army camp together are great.......also, shannon climbing into the ring to beat bob roper after ropers opponent couldnt continue due to a foul...shannon who fought on the undercard already that night beat roper...thats boxing folklore right there ...wonder how they allowed that to happen ?


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## Klompton (Jun 27, 2012)

doug.ie said:


> @Klompton
> i've been looking for a little info on al roberts.....a few months after greb beat mickey shannon in 1920, roberts beat him, killing him as roberts head hit the post seemingly from a knockdown blow from roberts....now i read that roberts was arrested after the fight and charged with manslaughter, but have no other info after that as to what happened....thought you might know.


Shannon, whose real name was Ray McMillan and was from Cumberland, MD near Pittsburgh was well known in the Pittsburgh and Cumberland areas. He had been a standout athlete and really seemed to be going places when he died. I cant remember if his head hit the post or the floor of the mat, I thought it was the floor. Anyway he went into a coma and died and Roberts was arrested. Like similar cases he was released shortly thereafter because it was it was difficult to make the charges stick or prove any wrongdoing on anyones part. It was simply an unfortunate event.



doug.ie said:


> also, shannon climbing into the ring to beat bob roper after ropers opponent couldnt continue due to a foul...shannon who fought on the undercard already that night beat roper...thats boxing folklore right there ...wonder how they allowed that to happen ?


The show must go on. LOL


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