# The 10 BEST Fighters You've Ever Seen



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

...


----------



## uraharakisuke (May 16, 2013)

1-Leonard
2-Ali
3-Robinson
4-Hearns
5-Jones Jr.
6-Lennox
7-Duran
8-Chavez
9-Sweet Pea
10-(I am tempted to put either prime Wlad or Vitali in this position)...Vitali

HM-Hagler (he should be in there but it's late and I came up with this list quickly)


----------



## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

1. Jones
2. Leonard
3. Mayweather
4. Whitaker
5. Toney
6. Trinidad
7. Tyson
8. Pacquiao
9. Ali
10. Mike McCallum


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Only the ones with enough footage.......

1-Joe Louis
2-Sugar Ray Robinson
3-Sugar Ray Leonard
4-Eder Jofre
5-Roberto Duran
6-Pernell Whitaker
7-Wilfredo Gomez
8-Julio Cesar Chavez
9-Roy Jones Jr
10-Floyd Mayweather Jr


----------



## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

Hard to choose...

1. Sugar Ray Leonard
2. Roberto Duran
3. Pernell whitaker
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Lennox Lewis
6. JC superstar
7. Roy Jones
8. James Toney
9. Tommy Hearns
10. Evander Holyfield


----------



## Brickfists (Oct 17, 2012)

1.Mayweather
2.Arguello
3.Hagler
4.Morales
5.Sal Sanchez
6.Pacquioa 
7.Wilfredo Gomez
8.Holyfield
9.Trinidad
10.Barrera


----------



## JoKeR (Jun 5, 2013)

1) Jones Jr.
2) Robinson
3) Mayweather 
4) Leonard
5) Hearns
6) Duran
7) Ali 
8) Foreman
9) Whitaker
10) Hagler


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

SouthPaw said:


> 1. Jones
> 2. Leonard
> 3. Mayweather
> 4. Whitaker
> ...


Have to laugh whenever I watch something like this:
(aside from the poor song choice)






One of the most implausibly, insanely skilled fighters ever. I never talk about him really, but he's the reason I wanted to start this thread.

@Brnxhands where you at?


----------



## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Have to laugh whenever I watch something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Certain style matchups made Toney look amazing. Truly special fighter. Put a brawler in front of him and watch some of the cleanest punching you'll ever see. If only he was dedicated, he could have been something even greater than he is.


----------



## gyllespie (Jun 17, 2013)

Haven't really been a boxing fan that long. I started watching in '99. Since then the best ones I've seen are:

FMJ
Jones
Bhop
JMM
Ward
Rigo (not a lot of pro fights obviously but I've seen enough to convince me he is insanely skilled)
Lewis 
DLH
Pac
Barrera

No disrespect to guys like Leonard, Duran, SRR, Ali, etc. I wasn't a boxing fan back when these guys were active. Watching Youtube vids, to me, doesn't do justice. It doesn't answer all the questions. I can only go by what I've seen on a consistent basis.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

In no particular order:

Jones
Robinson
Whitaker
Duran
Ali
Tyson
Leonard
Toney 
Napoles
JCC

I have to give Mosley a very honorable mention because man, in his prime he really was special.






Same goes for Louis, it hurt not to put him down. In fact I may yet convince myself to take him out where Tyson is.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> *In no particular order:*
> 
> Jones
> Robinson
> ...


:twisted: :lol:


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :twisted: :lol:


Sorry bro. If it's any consolation that is a general order. Let me be more strict about it though:

Jones
Robinson
Duran
Whitaker
Ali
Leonard
Tyson
Napoles
JCC
Toney

Mosley and Joe Louis may yet veto one or two of those...


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Sorry bro. If it's any consolation that is a general order. Let me be more strict about it though:
> 
> Jones
> Robinson
> ...


Thank you. Most of us have at least like 8 or 9 of the same damn guys apparently, so that's only reason why the order is stressed.


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

I think Louis had everything, at the highest level possible for a HW.
People talk about his defense or chin, or both, but to me, in many of the kds he suffered,, it looks like he was caught distracted, really, Louis always gave me the impression that (sometimes) he was a bit unfocused, he had that cool, calm aura over him, in and out of the ring......


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Vic said:


> I think Louis had everything, at the highest level possible for a HW.
> People talk about his defense or chin, or both, but to me, in many of the kds he suffered,, it looks like he was caught distracted, really, Louis always gave me the impression that (sometimes) he was a bit unfocused, he had that cool, calm aura over him, in and out of the ring......


Very good observation Vic. The expression is common but I think it applies most aptly to Louis when we say we saw him "get caught". His trips to the canvas are like "gotcha, aw shit (boom)" type of knockdowns.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

@Bogotazo @Vic

Is it any consolation that I call him the Greatest Puncher of All-Time?






That video gives me Legit CHILLS.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> @Bogotazo @Vic
> 
> Is it any consolation that I call him the Greatest Puncher of All-Time?
> 
> ...


Was that you in the old classic who said that, if using the broadest definition of what a puncher is and does, he's the best all around package?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Was that you in the old classic who said that, if using the broadest definition of what a puncher is and does, he's the best all around package?


Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was and I included Tyson in the example along with Louis in argument over the likes of guys like Shavers and Foreman for what a great _Puncher_ is to me. Those guys had more in terms of raw power perhaps, but didn't possess anywhere near the same speed, timing, accuracy, variation and use of angles, combinations, etc.

How the fuck you remember that? :lol:


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Muhammad Ali
Lennox Lewis
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Joe Louis
George Foreman
Wladimir Klitschko
Vitali Klitschko
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Manny Pacquaio


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Vic said:


> I think Louis had everything, at the highest level possible for a HW.
> People talk about his defense or chin, or both, but to me, in many of the kds he suffered,, it looks like he was caught distracted, really, Louis always gave me the impression that (sometimes) he was a bit unfocused, he had that cool, calm aura over him, in and out of the ring......


Joe Louis was a good Heavyweight. He would not do well in the super sized 90's era though, but for a black and white Heavy he was aces.
It's not really fair to compare Louis to the super charged fighters of the 90's because that era was just too powerful and strong for Joe Louis to have been competitive in. Resume he is top 5 All Time Heavyweight. In terms of actual H2H, he would have had trouble against Morrison even, much less the athletic giants like Lewis and Wlad.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was and I included Tyson in the example along with Louis in argument over the likes of guys like Shavers and Foreman for what a great _Puncher_ is to me. Those guys had more in terms of raw power perhaps, but didn't possess anywhere near the same speed, timing, accuracy, variation and use of angles, combinations, etc.
> 
> How the fuck you remember that? :lol:


I remember everything :hey


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

FelixTrinidad said:


> Muhammad Ali
> Lennox Lewis
> Mike Tyson
> Evander Holyfield
> ...


You're making me feel really flawed now, Felix.

Top 3 ATG Heavies

01. Muhammad Ali
02. Joe Louis
03. Lennox Lewis
(Tyson between 7-9)

Top 3 H2H Heavies

01. Lennox Lewis
02. Muhammad Ali
03. Mike Tyson

Yet no Ali or Lenny.


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was and I included Tyson in the example along with Louis in argument over the likes of guys like Shavers and Foreman for what a great _Puncher_ is to me. Those guys had more in terms of raw power perhaps, but didn't possess anywhere near the same speed, timing, accuracy, variation and use of angles, combinations, etc.
> 
> How the fuck you remember that? :lol:


You definitely know your stuff, I trust everything you say regarding Duran,Leonard,Robinson etc and have learned a lot from your posts, but when you talk Heavyweights I must add my opinion.

Joe Louis was made to look like such an amazing puncher because most of the guys he fought didn't have the offensive abilities, strength, and size of the 90's tanks.

The 90's had the biggest combination of punching power and size in Heavyweight History.

It's actually quite shocking how many BIG PHYSICAL guys there were in the 90's that could also hammer.

Today's era is big too, but we are talking 230-250 Pound guys who don't really have the offensive abilities of their 90's counter parts.

If Joe was in the 90's.. I can promise his offensive punching combinations wouldn't be as impressive against the likes of Mccall,Morrison,Lewis,Bowe,Holyfield,Tyson,Tucker,Tua,Ike,Mercer, even old Foreman etc.

The Heavyweight Division is the ONE DIVISION in boxing where evolution actually happened.

The Evolutionary cut off was actually Mike Tyson.

Mike Tyson was the 1st of the Modern Heavyweights.. the first breed if you will. It was the very 1st time in boxing history where someone can actually look as bulked out as Tyson but move with insane speed and athleticism. Bowe was the 1st of the modern Super heavyweights and Lewis was the best of the modern super heavyweights.

Joe Louis was a wonderful fighter... but the real question is (if you take off the rose tinted glasses)

Can Joe Louis at 205 Pounds even survive a 240 Pound Ike Ibeabuechi who is 35 pounds heavier, with a better chin, more power, and just as tough?


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

I'm actually legitimately curious @ the Classics/History posters.


Gun to your heads.. Life on the line.

Say we use a time machine to bring back the BEST version of Joe Louis ..

will you guys really pick him to beat the Ike Ibeabuchi who fought David Tua?

I know many of you love the Black and White era.. but aren't you guys just a bit scared evolution actually happened?

I mean what if Joe Louis got KTFO in the 1st round by Ike? Will you guys REALLY be that shocked?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Can't say I really disagree in all honesty. Sometimes the weight is too significant, and it got to that point by the 1990s. Even Tyson is a very little man at 5-10, 215-220 up next to Lewis, Bowe, Wladimir and Vitali, not to mention guys like Ike and Tua. Holyfield had a little more in stature and the physical strength to hang when he got up to prime Tyson's weight.

Tell you though, I'd probably only pick a peak Tyson to knock Lewis chin off his face in 1 out every 3 tries, simply because I can't see him not at least getting one with the level he was at. Bowe, despite his considerable physical attributes, was all kinds of hittable and didn't always fight to his advantages despite being incredibly good on the inside for a SHW (where Waldo and Vitali are shit).


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Can't say I really disagree in all honesty. Sometimes the weight is too significant, and it got to that point by the 1990s. Even Tyson is a very little man at 5-10, 215-220 up next to Lewis, Bowe, Wladimir and Vitali, not to mention guys like Ike and Tua. Holyfield had a little more in stature and the physical strength to hang when he got up to prime Tyson's weight.
> 
> Tell you though, I'd probably only pick a peak Tyson to knock Lewis chin off his face in 1 out every 3 tries, simply because I can't see him not at least getting one with the level he was at. Bowe, despite his considerable physical attributes, was all kinds of hittable and didn't always fight to his advantages despite being incredibly good on the inside for a SHW (where Waldo and Vitali are shit).


Tyson was a special case.. When people talk about weight.. I think they usually exclude Tyson because he actually used his size to make it work for him.

You get what I'm saying? Like Louis never had to 'alter' his style as a 205 Pound fighter going against 240 Pound guys because he was actually considered 'above average' in weight during that era.

Even Frazier never had to alter his style against the bigger guys because he wasn't that small of a guy during his era.

Tyson was the 1st ATG Heavyweight who ACTUALLY had to invent a style to kill the giants and hence he overcame his size disadvantages.

It's hard to explain because I'm not that eloquent with words when I'm not trolling..

but a 215 Pound Modern Mike Tyson is just more powerful than a 215 Pound Version of Joe Louis in terms of physical strength as well.

Now could Joe Louis have invented his own style to kill the 230+ Pound boys if he came up in the 90's? Of course he could have... 
but in H2H we can only pick the versions of the guys we saw on Film.. and what I SAW on Film in regards to Louis is a very small ATG who said he weight at 205-210 pounds but in all reality probably weighted 200.......

Another thing is..... the big guys Louis fought were utterly shit.

The Tony Tucker who Mike Tyson dominated for 12 rounds would have beaten every single super heavy of Joe's time... possibly KO.

Will you REALLY pick Primo the Freak against Prime Tucker?
Exactly. Lol. Joe never had experience against GOOD BIG MEN who could punch just as hard as he can but also carry a 30+ pound weight advantage.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

You're crazy if you think I'm gonna disagree with that. :lol:

Tony Tucker, as well as Pinklon Thomas and Donovan Ruddock at least.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I remember everything :hey


That's kind of scary. :lol:


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> That's kind of scary. :lol:


:yep


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> :yep


You remember my face. :scaredas:


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> You remember my face. :scaredas:


That's right. Why, just have a look yourself!


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

:rofl :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Total abuse of power right there Bogo. I literally gasped. :rofl :fire


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Robinson
Jones
Whitaker
Duran
Leonard
Mayweather
Chavez
Gomez
Tyson
Hearns

Thats the best i can think of as of right now, but im sure it'll change.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Total abuse of power right there Bogo. I literally gasped. :rofl :fire


Don't worry, I saved the image just in case.

But come on...considering how fucking HORRIBLE I am with paint, you should be terrified I can do that from memory.










But don't worry.. @turbotime isn't safe either...


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Robinson
> Jones
> Whitaker
> Duran
> ...


I'm really sour about leaving Sanchez off mine.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I'm really sour about leaving Sanchez off mine.


See i was gonna include an HM list (which would include Sanchez btw), but i would probably be here still typing that shit down and a couple hours later as well :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> See i was gonna include an HM list (which would include Sanchez btw), but i would probably be here still typing that shit down and a couple hours later as well :lol:


I already am but I don't want to go messing with the OP. He's definitely Top 15-20. Chavez... was better though.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Don't worry, I saved the image just in case.
> 
> But come on...considering how fucking HORRIBLE I am with paint, you should be terrified I can do that from memory.
> 
> ...


:lol:

May cross compare later. You're probably too hard on yourself with the artwork.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I already am but I don't want to go messing with the OP. He's definitely Top 15-20. Chavez... was better though.


You something, Iron? I agree with Chavez being better, but another guy i had as an HM, whom i had higher than Sanchez as well, is Ruben Olivares.

When he was on point, dude was a fucking monster. He had a tremendous skillset.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> May cross compare later. You're probably too hard on yourself with the artwork.


This is semi-decent. I'm talking about my earlier work, should you dare to venture into the "Draw a famous boxing scene in paint" thread. By comparison, this is near-photographic transcription.


----------



## the cobra (Jun 6, 2013)

The Toney thing seems very odd to me, Hands. Above Tyson, Chavez, and Hearns? Very odd, I think. I'd like to hear you out on that.

Here's mine:

1. Ray Robinson
2. Roy Jones
3. Roberto Duran
4. Ray Leonard
5. Pernell Whitaker
6. Henry Armstrong
7. Muhammad Ali
8. Carlos Monzon
9. Thomas Hearns
10. Julio Cesar Chavez

HM: Floyd Mayweather, Jose Napoles, Marvin Hagler, Bernard Hopkins, Kid Gavilan, Manny Pacquiao, Joe Louis, Willie Pep, Salvador Sanchez, Wilfred Gomez. 

A lot of potential switch ups there, of course.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> @*Bogotazo* @*Vic*
> 
> Is it any consolation that I call him the Greatest Puncher of All-Time?
> 
> ...


Reznick needs to go back to making videos! They were so fucking well done.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> *Only other request is that you have the sac to place them in order* no matter how miniscule the differences between some of them may be. No cop outs, please.


I gotta put them in order?

Brutal.

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Salvador Sanchez
3. Roberto Duran
4. Ray Leonard
5. Julio Cesar Chavez
6. Ezzard Charles
7. Ray Robinson
8. Ricardo Lopez
9. Harold Johnson
10. Willie Pep


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

the cobra said:


> The Toney thing seems very odd to me, Hands. Above Tyson, Chavez, and Hearns? Very odd, I think. I'd like to hear you out on that.
> 
> Here's mine:
> 
> ...


Even more odd than #1 and the 2nd** listed HM? :lol: :huh

We'll definitely get into it tomorrow, but there are some hidden hands I've never really tipped for the sake of long running (friendly) debates. I actually tried to go as objective and honest as I could even if I didn't fully like the results. Plus you disappeared for like -- a year. I dont regret #2 & #3 though.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Vasyl Lomachenko
Roy Jones
Guillermo Rigondeaux
Pernell Whitaker
James Toney
Mike Tyson
Floyd Mayweather
Andre Ward
Bernard Hopkins
Gamboa


----------



## the cobra (Jun 6, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Even more odd than #1 and the first listed HM? :lol: :huh
> 
> We'll definitely get into it tomorrow, but there are some hidden hands I've never really tipped for the sake of long running (friendly) debates. I actually tried to go as objective and honest as I could even if I didn't fully like the results. Plus you disappeared for like -- a year. I dont regret #2 & #3 though.


Hey, it was like..._half_ a year.

Jones at #1 makes perfect sense. I mean, it's odd coming from you, I certainly didn't expect it, but it's Jones. His case for best on film is as good as anybody's. I don't see it in Toney though, man. Brilliant as he was at what he did, aesthetically pleasing as his style was, i just can't see him as a top 10 kind of guy. Toney and no Ali? You know better than that. I don't much care for my list now either though. :lol:

I'll give you that the McCallum thing is a bit weird too, but only a bit. Here's the thing: P4P and peak for peak, I think McCallum was a shade better than Toney. Not as well suited for dealing with the big boys though, so that's a close call.

Nard's a shade better than both anyway. :yep


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Vasyl Lomachenko
> Roy Jones
> Guillermo Rigondeaux
> Pernell Whitaker
> ...


Gamboa is one of the best fighters you ever seen?


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Gamboa is one of the best fighters you ever seen?


Yep, on pure athletic talent/coordination he's pretty much on the Roy Jones level. Shame about his career so far.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Yep, on pure athletic talent/coordination he's pretty much on the Roy Jones level. Shame about his career so far.


yeah it is pretty sad. Signing with 50 has been a terrible move. I think he's taking away from his best attributes fighting at 135 also


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

the cobra said:


> Hey, it was like..._half_ a year.
> 
> Jones at #1 makes perfect sense. I mean, it's odd coming from you, I certainly didn't expect it, but it's Jones. His case for best on film is as good as anybody's. I don't see it in Toney though, man. Brilliant as he was at what he did, aesthetically pleasing as his style was, i just can't see him as a top 10 kind of guy. Toney and no Ali? You know better than that. I don't much care for my list now either though. :lol:
> 
> ...


Actually meant the _2nd_ HM which turns out to be none other than Hopkins and that's someone who hasn't gotten a ton of love from me previously to say the least. What's interesting with Toney is that I threw him on there almost as a pure ability pick and it turned out several other people had similar feelings with some even putting him higher up than that and I honestly had no idea. The symmetry probably flows a lot better if he's down there right next to McCallum and Nard (11 and 12 I suppose) but I've honestly been blown away by the mixture of natural (the very epitome?!) fighter and old school technique he was. You already know of the absolute mastery of fighting in the pocket, his head and upper body movement, counterpunching masterclass, ability to fight off the ropes... and he damn well had to be near GOAT level ability wise in those facets with the bummy wheels he had and somehow it just makes him more amazing to me. :lol: Could be onto it though as far as being cast under an aesthetics spell of sorts.


----------



## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

...Can't put them in order, forget it. 

Marcel Cerdan
Jeff Fenech
Julio Cesar Chavez
Pernell Whitaker 
Roy Jones jnr.
Floyd Mayweather jnr.
Ray Robinson
Ray Leonard
Wilfredo Gomez
Joe Louis


----------



## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

FelixTrinidad said:


> You definitely know your stuff, I trust everything you say regarding Duran,Leonard,Robinson etc and have learned a lot from your posts, but when you talk Heavyweights I must add my opinion.
> 
> Joe Louis was made to look like such an amazing puncher because most of the guys he fought didn't have the offensive abilities, strength, and size of the 90's tanks.
> 
> ...


There is a lot of truth in what you say. It's hard to really get to grips with this kind of topic because so much has changed. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that Louis was among the most skilled heavyweights of all time. That to me is a no-brainer.

But yeah, the size (and hence, probably strength) difference is a big, big factor, pardon the pun. It's really not fair on Louis though, since he was 100% natural, and these other guys are juiced to the gills. A Louis with their benefits would be 225 solid pounds, no problem.

Funnily enough, I think Tyson was the last of the old-school heavyweights. He trained more in the traditional manner and never even lifted in his prime. Honestly, to me, he was the last significant heavyweight that was 100% natural, at least before prison.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

fists of fury said:


> There is a lot of truth in what you say. It's hard to really get to grips with this kind of topic because so much has changed. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that Louis was among the most skilled heavyweights of all time. That to me is a no-brainer.
> 
> But yeah, the size (and hence, probably strength) difference is a big, big factor, pardon the pun. It's really not fair on Louis though, since he was 100% natural, and these other guys are juiced to the gills. A Louis with their benefits would be 225 solid pounds, no problem.
> 
> Funnily enough, I think Tyson was the last of the old-school heavyweights. He trained more in the traditional manner and never even lifted in his prime. Honestly, to me, he was the last significant heavyweight that was 100% natural, at least before prison.


So lifting weights counts as a PED now, gotcha.


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

1. Ray Robinson
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Roberto Duran
4. Ray Leonard
5. Pernell Whitaker
6. Muhammad Ali
7. Jose Napoles
8. Wilfredo Gomez
9. Thomas Hearns
10. Kid Gavilan

HM: Marvin Hagler, Carlos Monzon, Floyd Mayweather Jr, Mike Tyson, Ruben Olivares, Julio Cesar Chavez, Peter Manfredo Jr, Willie Pep, Michael Spinks, Jung Koo Chang, Carlos Ortiz, Luis Rodriguez, Bernard Hopkins, Henry Armstrong, etc.


----------



## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> So lifting weights counts as a PED now, gotcha.







Skip to the 10 minute mark. The guy makes a lot of sense and tell it as it is. I think it's a LOT more prevalent in sports than people would like to admit. Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JMP said:


> 1. Ray Robinson
> 2. Roy Jones Jr.
> 3. Roberto Duran
> 4. Ray Leonard
> ...


What about Kalambay?? :-( :smile


----------



## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

I would've added pacquiao and mayweather on my list but I haven't seen those guys use their skills against equal level opposition like duran vs leonard vs hearns or Holyfield vs tyson/lewis or pernell whitaker vs chavez sr.


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> What about Kalambay?? :-( :smile


There's too many to name. It gets weird, though, because some guys who pop up on the list or as an honorable mention might well find themselves at a stylistic oddity against somebody not on the list. For example, I forgot to list Eder Jofre who I would favor over Olivares. Or like you said, Kalambay, who on his best night I could see beating Bernard Hopkins and James Toney who are more rounded operators, but wouldn't be in their optimal style mode if confronted with the pure-boxing Kalambay. And take Lennox Lewis who could jab, clinch, lean on, and eventually grind Tyson down to a stoppage. Foster might well be able to get Spinks out of there, too. Incredible jab, range, and size with the ability to deliver and land with probably even more firepower.

Luis Rodriguez, from what I've seen on him, would be a really tough matchup for Napoles at welterweight. I might even favor him, but yet again, Napoles is higher on my list because he was best in the 135/140 range and was versed on more aspects of the game.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JMP said:


> There's too many to name. It gets weird, though, because some guys who pop up on the list or as an honorable mention might well find themselves at a stylistic oddity against somebody not on the list. For example, I forgot to list Eder Jofre who I would favor over Olivares. Or like you said, Kalambay, who on his best night I could see beating Bernard Hopkins, or Lennox Lewis who could jab, clinch, lean on, and eventually grind Tyson down to a stoppage. Foster might well be able to get Spinks out of there, too. Incredible jab, range, and size with the ability to deliver and land with probably even more firepower.


Yeah, you shouldn't beat yourself up over it and I realized the fault of of Tyson in there for mine as well, but I guess I'm just looking at it as him in his own element and at his best being a more impressive fighting machine than X fighter/whoever else to me.

Did notice on my flawed OP though that Roy (#1) has a win over #7 as well as the first two HMs (one well past), Duran (#2 ) has a win over #5 , Whitaker (#3) has a win over #9 , Robinson (#4) has a win over an HM, Leonard (#5 ) has wins over #2 and #10 , Floyd (#6) is there on his own accord really and maybe a bit lucky for it, Toney (#7 ) mostly there strictly on ability, has a win over an HM, Tyson (#8), Chavez (#9 ) and Hearns (#10 ) all there on their own accord - as they could all be, with the wins being a huge bonus -- , though nobody before or after ever took Duran apart like that.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

:rofl what's going on in herre?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

1. Roy Jones
2. Ray Robinson
3. Ray Leonard
4. Pernell Whitaker
5. Floyd Mayweather
6. Roberto Duran
7. Muhammad Ali
8. Thomas Hearns
9. Shane Mosley
10. Salvador Sanchez

Leaving guys like Napoles, Carlos Oritz, Hopkins, Charles off was tough :twisted


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Louis could never beat a 230 lb heavyweight. Fact.


----------



## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

Robinson
Duran
Louis
Pep
Ali
Jones Jr
Napoles
Charles
Locche
Rigo

HM: Kalambay, Burley, Whitaker, Toney, Benitez, Canto & many more.


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

LittleRed said:


> Louis could never beat a 230 lb heavyweight. Fact.


Well he can but during the 90's I think he would have lost to at least 10 fighters.

Joe Louis would have lost against
Morrison
Tucker
Ruddock
Mccall
Rahman
Tua
Ike
Lewis
Bowe
Holyfield

He's 50/50 against
Golota
Biggs
Briggs
Old Foreman

I think he can beat Michael Grant but it will be a grueling 12 round war. I slightly favor Louis over Michael Grant but only by the tiniest of margins.
We must remember Grant is much bigger than Primo and punches much harder.

Although I will heavily favor Joe Louis over Wladimir Klitschko.


----------



## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

JMP said:


> There's too many to name.


That's the problem. Limiting it to just ten makes it tough.


----------



## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

Hagler
Hearns
Jones Jnr
Tyson
Whitaker
Mayweather
Lewis
Pacquaio
Barrera
Holyfield


Only done fighters i rememebr watching ( too young for Duran and Leonard's heyday. Hagler and Hearns i have studied a bit ).


----------



## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

LittleRed said:


> Louis could never beat a 230 lb heavyweight. Fact.


I'm sure you're aware that factually speaking you're wrong.


----------



## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

Forgot Bernard atsch


----------



## the cobra (Jun 6, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Actually meant the _2nd_ HM which turns out to be none other than Hopkins and that's someone who hasn't gotten a ton of love from me previously to say the least. What's interesting with Toney is that I threw him on there almost as a pure ability pick and it turned out several other people had similar feelings with some even putting him higher up than that and I honestly had no idea. The symmetry probably flows a lot better if he's down there right next to McCallum and Nard (11 and 12 I suppose) but I've honestly been blown away by the mixture of natural (the very epitome?!) fighter and old school technique he was. You already know of the absolute mastery of fighting in the pocket, his head and upper body movement, counterpunching masterclass, ability to fight off the ropes... and he damn well had to be near GOAT level ability wise in those facets with the bummy wheels he had and somehow it just makes him more amazing to me. :lol: Could be onto it though as far as being cast under an aesthetics spell of sorts.


He's fucking lovely to watch, no doubt about that. Still, as you can see by my list, I don't even think _Floyd_ quite belongs in the top 10, and I'm pretty confident in saying that Floyd is clearly the all-around superior operator in comparison to Toney. You've got Floyd in your top 10, above Toney, but even with Floyd as a top 10 guy, I just see more space between them.

And best Hopkins beats best Toney. :deal Fuck natural talent :lol:. Discipline, variation, and control of space win out the day in that one.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

It's nice to see Sumbu Kalambay getting mentioned in here. I'm not sure I've seen a better Boxing display than the one he shown in his first fight with Mike McCallum. He was ludicrously good on the night.


----------



## the cobra (Jun 6, 2013)

I had difficulty rating Charles in this. I was trying to go mostly just off footage, but the footage PLUS the record suggest quite strongly that he's a definite top 10 guy, but I just felt like leaving him out of the discussion I guess.

Spinks though, I just totally forgot about. Wouldn't crack my top 10, but he's not far down the list. A few guys I forgot. This shit's hard to do.


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

fists of fury said:


> I'm sure you're aware that factually speaking you're wrong.


What?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> *01. Roy Jones, Jr
> *
> 
> HM: Mike McCallum, Bernard Hopkins, Kid Gavilan, Wilfredo Gomez, Jose Napoles.


:ibutt!!!!!!!


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

the cobra said:


> He's fucking lovely to watch, no doubt about that. Still, as you can see by my list, I don't even think _Floyd_ quite belongs in the top 10, and I'm pretty confident in saying that Floyd is clearly *the all-around superior operator* in comparison to Toney. You've got Floyd in your top 10, above Toney, but even with Floyd as a top 10 guy, I just see more space between them.
> 
> And best Hopkins beats best Toney. :deal Fuck natural talent :lol:. Discipline, variation, and control of space win out the day in that one.


:rofl

I'm not laughing at what you said, just that I swear we've had this discussion before. Maybe it was with JMP. :think



turbotime said:


> :ibutt!!!!!!!


lol :-(



Bogotazo said:


> Don't worry, I saved the image just in case.
> 
> But come on...considering how fucking HORRIBLE I am with paint, you should be terrified I can do that from memory.
> 
> ...


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> I'm really sour about leaving Sanchez off mine.


I´m more impressed with Miguel Canto than I´m with Sanchez footage tbh......both were awesome fighters of course, but after Chavez the best mexican on film to me is Canto.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Sanchez doesn't greatly impress me, if I'm honest. 

It's controversial, but for my money there were quite a lot of Mexicans throughout history that looked better on film than Sanchez did, and I'm not just talking about the likes of Olivares, Canto, and Zarate. This doesn't necessarily mean Sanchez's status isn't warranted, the victories speak for themselves, but he didn't look ludicrously good on film. Not to my eyes.


----------



## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

LittleRed said:


> What?


Galento
Carnera
Simon
and at least one of the Baers (Buddy I think) all weighed over 230 for their fights with Louis. No big deal, just saying.


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Sanchez doesn't greatly impress me, if I'm honest.
> 
> It's controversial, but for my money there were quite a lot of Mexicans throughout history that looked better on film than Sanchez did, and I'm not just talking about the likes of Olivares, Canto, and Zarate. This doesn't necessarily mean Sanchez's status isn't warranted, the victories speak for themselves, but he didn't look ludicrously good on film. Not to my eyes.


I'm with you on this. A number of his performances I found underwhelming. Definitely an issue with certain styles, although still an unquestionable all-time great.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Sanchez doesn't greatly impress me, if I'm honest.
> 
> It's controversial, but for my money there were quite a lot of Mexicans throughout history that looked better on film than Sanchez did, and I'm not just talking about the likes of Olivares, Canto, and Zarate. This doesn't necessarily mean Sanchez's status isn't warranted, the victories speak for themselves, but he didn't look ludicrously good on film. Not to my eyes.


Addie right?


----------



## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

In my lifetime, with my own eyes:
1. Sugar Ray Leonard
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Pernell Whitaker
4. Marvin Hager
5. Thomas Hearns
6. Meldrick Taylor
7. Mayweather
8. Julio Cesar Chavez
9. Shane Mosley
10. Erik Morales

I know I'll get crap for rating Taylor above the man who beat him. But, I feel that he was a more well rounded fighter. Handspeed, foot movement, he could win inside or outside. Of course, on the night it counted most JCC pulled off the win.

So hard to do this list. I made about 20 changes. Could sit here all day making changes and will still be guaranteed to leave off a favorite.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

frankenfrank said:


> P4P :
> 1. Sam Langford
> 2. Henry Armstrong
> 3. James Toney
> ...


:deal


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

fists of fury said:


> Galento
> Carnera
> Simon
> and at least one of the Baers (Buddy I think) all weighed over 230 for their fights with Louis. No big deal, just saying.


Lies!


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Honestly I don't know who sim thompkins is?


----------



## miniq (Jul 12, 2013)

I've never seen any with my own eyes :'(

Oh well got another 65 years left to do that


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

LittleRed said:


> Honestly I don't know who sim thompkins is?


Where's your list, Red?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :deal


:lol: Fwanky


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

1.SRR
2. SRL 
3. RJJ
4. Ali
5. Hearns
6. Mayweather
7. Lomachenko
8. Duran
9. Hagler
10. Monzon vs Whitaker 
Honourable mention: Cruiser Holyfield, Light Heavyweight Spinks


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :lol: Fwanky


Loved that guy :lol:



The Undefeated Gaul said:


> 1.SRR
> 2. SRL
> 3. RJJ
> 4. Ali
> ...


Your boy Dw tore Monzon a new asshole in that other Random MW thread. :rofl


----------



## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

I feel bad that I left off Arguello. Has anyone mentioned him yet?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

People listing Ali over Mayweather? ffs. Ali's lazy arse was almost smoked out by big bad Cooper.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> People listing Ali over Mayweather? ffs. Ali's lazy arse was almost smoked out by big bad Cooper.


that was Cassius Clay

Ali beat Sir Cooper more convincingly :smile


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> that was Cassius Clay
> 
> Ali beat Sir Cooper more convincingly :smile


Shavers and Frazier whacked up Ali too :-(


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> People listing Ali over Mayweather? ffs. Ali's lazy arse was almost smoked out by big bad Cooper.


Not a chance, bro. Ali doesnt do a ton for me, honestly.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

No me neither. I love him but as far as best I've seen I think I could actually list a few more guys ove him now that I've had a think about it :err


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Where's your list, Red?


My what now? Where's @Boxed Ears list huh?


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Shavers and Frazier whacked up Ali too :-(


yeah but he beat him. in those fights he showed heart and chin (especially past his best) which are attributes that I include when I list the best. And at least he fought the best out there unlike fucking lil floyd

"manny pacquiao you're next"

"I-I never said that :err"


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> yeah but he beat him. least he fought the best out there unlike fucking lil floyd
> 
> "manny pacquiao you're next"
> 
> "I-I never said that :err"


What was Ali doing at 37? Getting worked over by baby Spinks and Berbick :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> No me neither. I love him but as far as best I've seen I think I could actually list a few more guys ove him now that I've had a think about it :err


So change it. :deal

No racist but looking at the ten fighters I listed, Duran and Chavez look so ridiculously out of their league in terms of physical attributes and dimensions, speed, reflexes, etc. so god help how fuckin skilled they actually were to fuck with these boys. Those are some of the most freakish fighters the ring has ever seen


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> So change it. :deal
> 
> No racist but looking at the ten fighters I listed, Duran and Chavez look so ridiculously out of their league in terms of physical attributes and dimensions, speed, reflexes, etc. so god help how fuckin skilled they actually were to fuck with these boys.


:lol: I could throw Hopkins on there but he was a bit ugly at times like Ali so I'm not sure who I'd put on there and I'm so off the Finito train it's ridiculous :lol: Gomez looks real nice on film as did a rejuvenated Barrera. I just don't know and I don't want to make it look like I'm all about the "Slick" brigade


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> What was Ali doing at 37? Getting worked over by baby Spinks and Berbick :lol:


making fun of a guy with parkinsons syndrome (which we know he had by then)?

for shame.

What the fuck is Floyd doing beating up a dude who should've never been champ and arguably lost his fight? Big fucking deal


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> So change it. :deal
> 
> No racist but looking at the ten fighters I listed, Duran and Chavez look so ridiculously out of their league in terms of physical attributes and dimensions, speed, reflexes, etc. so god help how fuckin skilled they actually were to fuck with these boys. Those are some of the most freakish fighters the ring has ever seen


eh, their speed and reflexes weren't that bad. sure you've seen the "rey of bending" vid for Chavez


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> making fun of a guy with parkinsons syndrome (which we know he had by then)?
> 
> for shame.
> 
> What the fuck is Floyd doing beating up a dude who should've never been champ are arguably lost his fight? Big fucking deal


Anyone scoring the fight for Trout shouldn't be scoring fights. It was competitive but a clear Canelo W and then Floyd boxed him up easy right after.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

MGS said:


> eh, their speed and reflexes weren't that bad. sure you've seen the "rey of bending" vid for Chavez


Who said they were bad? :lol: The others were GOAT level in those facets. Duran kicked Leonard's ass anyway.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Anyone scoring the fight for Trout shouldn't be scoring fights. It was competitive but a clear Canelo W and then Floyd boxed him up easy right after.


No shit he boxed him easy. Trout arguably boxed him. The guy got his championship from Hatton's lil bro. The fuck did anyone think Canelo was gonna do.

Alright, people who scored the fight for Trout shouldn't score fights, people who thought Canelo could win shouldn't watch period.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> No shit he boxed him easy. Trout arguably boxed him. The guy got his championship from Hatton's lil bro. The fuck did anyone think Canelo was gonna do.
> 
> Alright, people who scored the fight for Trout shouldn't score fights, people who thought Canelo could win shouldn't watch period.


That just speaks to how great Mayweather is. We have a welterweight that people want to see against Middleweights.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Who said they were bad? :lol: The others were GOAT level in those facets. Duran kicked Leonard's ass anyway.


my bad, ridiculously out of the their league made it sound bad to me :yep


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> That just speaks to how great Mayweather is. We have a welterweight that people want to see against Middleweights.


That was jr middle bro.

I don't really care about him going up to middle myself. There are still good fights are 147/154. Don't take this the wrong way, I acknowledge Floyd as a great, skilled fighter. But come on, Guerrero, Ortiz, Canelo, Mosley, fucker didnt even make weight against an already smaller Marquez. I'm not that high on him.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

MGS said:


> my bad, ridiculously out of the their league made it sound bad to me :yep


So it's actually a compliment to their skills isnt it? They're there. Duran is *#2*! :lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> That was jr middle bro.
> 
> I don't really care about him going up to middle myself. There are still good fights are 147/154. Don't take this the wrong way, I acknowledge Floyd as a great, skilled fighter. But come on, Guerrero, Ortiz, Canelo, Mosley, fucker didnt even make weight against an already smaller Marquez. I'm not that high on him.


I know it was junior middle but he's a natual welterweight these days. He loses weight on fight day sometimes ffs


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

If you arent elchavito you're someone similar.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :lol: I could throw Hopkins on there but he was a bit ugly at times like Ali so I'm not sure who I'd put on there and I'm so off the Finito train it's ridiculous :lol: Gomez looks real nice on film as did a rejuvenated Barrera. I just don't know and I don't want to make it look like I'm all about the "Slick" brigade


So you purposely compromised your list to include enough variation of races and nationalities. :lol: :verysad

I wanna see @bballchump11 s :deal


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

Ali's just no.1 He beat so many top 20 even top 10 heavys, and at the time, you look at the guys who were ranked top 10 and he beat pretty much all of them. I mean this fucking guy took shots from Liston, Frazier, Foreman, then when he was completely past his best, Shavers, Lyle...and he still fucking won. Can't say he ducked anybody, pulled any bitch moves with rematches. Motherfucker even beat the government :lol: Just a bad, bad motherfucker.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> So you purposely compromised your list to include enough variation of races and nationalities. :lol: :verysad
> 
> I wanna see @bballchump11 s :deal


:lol: I really didn't but since you brought it up and looking back at the list it's largely of the slick brigade :conf


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :lol: I really didn't but since you brought it up and looking back at the list it's largely of the slick brigade :conf


Yeah well.. Looking at WHO they are, I'm gonna have to say tough shit if its a problem for anyone. I'm obviously not black either.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Loved that guy :lol:
> 
> Your boy Dw tore Monzon a new asshole in that other Random MW thread. :rofl


I sewed it back up..

that sounds gross.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Anyone scoring the fight for Trout shouldn't be scoring fights.


Calling out at least half of CHB's #TMT squad here. :lol: :yep


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Calling out at least half of CHB's #TMT squad here. :lol: :yep


:lol: I think @bballchump11 did :-(


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I sewed it back up..
> 
> that sounds gross.


Didnt think he was terribly off, aside from the aggression bit. Monzon was as calm and calculating as fuck and inevitably managed to dictate the terms of just about everyone he ever fought. The fuck if he wasnt going to keep you on the end of that jab. By the mid-rounds he'd typically have his timing down and start mixing a variation of accurate shots in and he only kept warming the longer it went on.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Monzon is so underwhelming on film. Anotherr guy who does nothing for me.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> Ali's just no.1 He beat so many top 20 even top 10 heavys, and at the time, you look at the guys who were ranked top 10 and he beat pretty much all of them. I mean this fucking guy took shots from Liston, Frazier, Foreman, then when he was completely past his best, Shavers, Lyle...and he still fucking won. Can't say he ducked anybody, pulled any bitch moves with rematches. Motherfucker even beat the government :lol: Just a bad, bad motherfucker.


No one is saying his resume isn't class. Other fighters just look better :conf


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Monzon is so underwhelming on film. Anotherr guy who does nothing for me.


I like Monzon, though he's definitely acquired taste.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Reminds me of Whitaker. People hated watching Pernell. I think he is aces. Pea :ibutt!!!!!!


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Reminds me of Whitaker. People hated watching Pernell. I think he is aces. Pea :ibutt!!!!!!


Who's your top five most Enjoyable to watch? That might be even more difficult for me.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Who's your top five most Enjoyable to watch? That might be even more difficult for me.


No idea on that, really


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

I DO love watching Olivares. I underrate him on my list of fighters I watch but I always end up watching him. Morales too. Fucking wildboys.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> No one is saying his resume isn't class. Other fighters just look better :conf


against lesser opposition :ibutt


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> against lesser opposition :ibutt


So you admit Floyd looks better :deal


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

:lol:


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> So you purposely compromised your list to include enough variation of races and nationalities. :lol: :verysad
> I wanna see @bballchump11 s :deal


:yep I'll do mine soon. I'm watching Garcia/Mattyhsse again 


turbotime said:


> :lol: I think @bballchump11 did :-(


:lol: 115-112 Trout homie. When I rewatched it a month later, I had it closer though, but didn't score it. Overall, it looked like Canelo won, but round bu round idk.

Same thing happened with the Rosado/Love fight. It looked like Rosado won, but Love may have won more rounds overall.


----------



## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

No mentions for Ezzard Charles or Billy Conn?


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> So you admit Floyd looks better :deal


the thread asks who are the best though. not just who looks good against b+ fighters.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

Vysotsky said:


> No mentions for Ezzard Charles or Billy Conn?


i got charles in mine.

not roy jones, or james toney, ya know all those dudes got busted :yep


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> the thread asks who are the best though. not just who looks good against b+ fighters.


Floyd has more Hall of Fame level fighters on his resume than Ali does.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Floyd has more Hall of Fame level fighters on his resume than Ali does.


:huh


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Oh lord :rofl


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> :huh


Foreman, Norton, Frazier, Liston?

vs

Delahoya, Hatton, Cotto, Castillo, Mosley, Corrales, Hernandez, Gatti etc.

and Floyd did it through more weights effortlessly whereas Ali was struggling with oafs like Cooper and Shavers.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Foreman, Norton, Frazier, Liston?
> 
> vs
> 
> ...


thats that floyd fan shit just speculating him to the top.

you forgot moore, patterson and i think bob foster btw


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> thats that floyd fan shit just speculating him to the top.
> 
> you forgot moore, patterson and i think bob foster btw


Oh yeah jeez Moore. But Floyd gets no credit from you for beating "small Marquez" though :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Foreman, Norton, Frazier, Liston?
> 
> vs
> 
> ...


I wish frankenfrank was here to dispel all this ALI stuff. :yep It wouldn't be a good look if I were to spill those kernels of truth to the brainwashed masses.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I wish frankenfrank was here to dispel all this ALI stuff. :yep It wouldn't be a good look if I were to spill those kernels of truth to the brainwashed masses.


Ali was great. One of the best. Floyd is near perfect though and it shows even at this stage. The guy has literally had 3 versions of himself and hardly loses rounds. Hard to deny him.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Oh yeah jeez Moore. But Floyd gets no credit from you for beating "small Marquez" though :lol:


you're the one who brought up the hall of fame not me. at least moore is actually IN there though :lol:


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I wish frankenfrank was here to dispel all this ALI stuff. :yep It wouldn't be a good look if I were to spill those kernels of truth to the brainwashed masses.


that guy? he didnt dispel shit :ibutt


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> you're the one who brought up the hall of fame not me. at least moore is actually IN there though :lol:


Maybe if they fought at light heavyweight you could call Moore HOF level.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Maybe if they fought at light heavyweight you could call Moore HOF level.


maybe if ALL of those guys you mentioned actually get in you can do the same

either way. Ali HOFers > Lil Floyd


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> maybe if ALL of those guys you mentioned actually get in you can do the same
> 
> either way. Ali HOFers > Lil Floyd


I said Hall of Fame level and they will get in. Do you consider Chuvalo Hall of Fame level ? Or are you just going to keep nuthugging Ali


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> I said Hall of Fame level and they will get in. Do you consider Chuvalo Hall of Fame level ? Or are you just going to keep nuthugging Ali


If I did I would've mentioned him a few posts back :yep


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> the thread asks who are the best though. not just who looks good against b+ fighters.





MGS said:


> I gotta put them in order?
> 
> Brutal.
> 
> ...


:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Love it.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> I said Hall of Fame level and they will get in. Do you consider Chuvalo Hall of Fame level ? Or are you just going to keep nuthugging Ali


I really want this issue


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
> 
> Love it.


Lomachenko >>>>> Lopez


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I really want this issue


Man, I had SO many RING mags in the late 90s probably up until 2008. Loved them and bought it every month. For one Birthday I told my bro I wanted him to buy me a bunch of back issues by EBAY :lol: I'd take them to school all of the time. the Mag is still pretty good actually.

I have one special edish that is a top 10 best fights of the 1990s. Can't even find it anywhere. Chavez/Taylor was #1 then Holy/Bowe and Carbs/Gonzales


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Lomachenko >>>>> Lopez


He has the same quality as Lopez :lol:


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I really want this issue


A GLASS JAW?!!?

atsch


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Q


Bogotazo said:


> A GLASS JAW?!!?
> 
> atsch


:rofl :rofl Holy fuck I didn't even notice that.
@turbotime You've told me of the collection and I'm jelly


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

I used to like Vasyl Lomachenko until today. And I mean that, too.

#WARSALIDO


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JMP said:


> I used to like Vasyl Lomachenko until today. And I mean that, too.
> 
> #WARSALIDO


What happened today?

Did you know Michael Nunn was an elite P4P fighter and heavily favored when Toney KO'ed his ass? :smile


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> What happened today?
> 
> Did you know Michael Nunn was an elite P4P fighter and heavily favored when Toney KO'ed his ass? :smile


Seeing him rated over the more demonic Charles Manson lookalike in your avatar was it for me. I'm done with him. DONE!


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Q
> 
> :rofl :rofl Holy fuck I didn't even notice that.
> 
> @turbotime You've told me of the collection and I'm jelly


:rofl there is a RING mag with Oskee and Rafael on the front and they kept saying the big O couldn't take a shot :rofl what the fuck.

I think I remember the top 10 I've read that mag so much :yep

Chavez/Taylor
Bowe/Holy
Carbs/Chiq
Barrera/McKinney
Ruelas/Gatti
Gatti/Rodriguez
Ward/Burton
Holy/Tyson 1

Damn I'm stumped on the rest. Naz/Kelly was an honorable mention that's how stacked the decade was :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> He has the same quality as Lopez :lol:


Better, probably


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :rofl there is a RING mag with Oskee and Rafael on the front and they kept saying the big O couldn't take a shot :rofl what the fuck.
> 
> I think I remember the top 10 I've read that mag so much :yep
> 
> ...


The 90s man... :jjj

Also the time of MJ and Hakeem @JMP

Barry Sanders.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JMP said:


> Seeing him rated over the more demonic Charles Manson lookalike in your avatar was it for me. I'm done with him. DONE!


Still though, who fights an Orlando Salido in their 2nd pro fight? I think he's exciting for the sport tbh


----------



## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I really want this issue


Fuck Toney looking good there.


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Still though, who fights an Orlando Salido in their 2nd pro fight? I think he's exciting for the sport tbh


I can't knock him or not be a fan. It's just...the Pactardation shifted to him and while he might warrant it somebody, I feel it's getting over the top.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> The 90s man... :jjj
> 
> Also the time of MJ and Hakeem @*JMP*
> 
> Barry Sanders.


What were the other two? I think it was Gatti/Robinson and ..>?? @ 1:40s


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> The 90s man... :jjj
> 
> Also the time of MJ and Hakeem @JMP
> 
> Barry Sanders.


The 1990s was the shit. Most of my original sports heroes were at the peak of their powers in the 90s.

First jersey I ever bought was a David Robinson one. It was made by Champion, I believe. Funny enough, as a little kid, I rooted against Hakeem because I was such a big Admiral fan, but I grew to love him and practiced his moves in the backyard.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
> 
> Love it.


surprised how long you took :happy



turbotime said:


> People listing Ali over Mayweather? ffs. Ali's lazy arse was almost smoked out by big bad Cooper.


I got you there though. Ali > Mayweather


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> surprised how long you took :happy
> 
> I got you there though. Ali > Mayweather


Sorry but I stopped reading after you listed Ali at 1 then Lopez later just made laugh :lol: :rofl


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JMP said:


> The 1990s was the shit. Most of my original sports heroes were at the peak of their powers in the 90s.
> 
> First jersey I ever bought was a David Robinson one. It was made by Champion, I believe. Funny enough, as a little kid, I rooted against Hakeem because I was such a big Admiral fan, but I grew to love him and practiced his moves in the backyard.


I was a Barkley/Suns fan :lol: It was more about fear and bitter respect as it was actually happening.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Sorry but I stopped reading after you listed Ali at 1 then Lopez later just made laugh :lol: :rofl


aw. turbo needs a hug.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> What were the other two? I think it was Gatti/Robinson and ..>?? @ 1:40s


Never gets old. Kills me that you're a Morales guy though. MAB! :ibutt


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I was a Barkley/Suns fan :lol: It was more about fear and bitter respect as it was actually happening.


I wish I would've paid more attention to Barkley when I was a little kid. His attitude and intensity used to intimidate me. Watching him over the past five or six years, though...what an absurd offensive and rebounding machine.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Never gets old. Kills me that you're a Morales guy though. MAB! :ibutt


?

I thought Barrera won the fight. I rate Barrera quite highly especially after this fight and his masterclasses later on as far as films go.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

MGS said:


> aw. turbo needs a hug.


I got his bro hug right here.

He's banging Natalie Portman though.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I got his bro hug right here.
> 
> He's banging Natalie Portman though.


:horse

You know why she is awesome? She also finds me posting on CHB endearing :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JMP said:


> I wish I would've paid more attention to Barkley when I was a little kid. His attitude and intensity used to intimidate me. Watching him over the past five or six years, though...what an absurd offensive and rebounding machine.


Barkley was a lot like James Toney. :lol: Seriously. I mean besides defensively, just so naturally talented, skilled, freakishly athletic in certain areas for his build and LAZY.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> ?
> 
> I thought Barrera won the fight. I rate Barrera quite highly especially after this fight and his masterclasses later on as far as films go.


Thought? :verysad Not debatable


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Thought? :verysad Not debatable


MAB fan........Is it because Barrera was considered the next JCC until the Jones debacles?


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

GOAT


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> MAB fan........Is it because Barrera was considered the next JCC until the Jones debacles?


Nah I'm just playing


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Nah I'm just playing


Looking back this just re-enforces Morales' GOATness with his top 5 vs the other 2 Mexi's :yep


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> aw. turbo needs a hug.


Watch more boxing :good


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Looking back this just re-enforces Morales' GOATness with his top 5 vs the other 2 Mexi's :yep


I'm going to bed. :fire :cry


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I'm going to bed. :fire :cry


:lol: :hi: Night babe!


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Watch more boxing :good





turbotime said:


> What was Ali doing at 37? Getting worked over by baby Spinks and Berbick :lol:


wait a minute wait a minute....:fire

what was *YOUR NUMBER 1 DOING AT 37? SHIT, WHAT WAS HE DOING AT 35? *



turbotime said:


> 1. Roy Jones












*ALI = GOAT*


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Ali is better than Jones.

Prime Ali was the HW Equalivant of Jones except with better technique and a better chin.

Fuck that shit with Jones y'all musta forgot reflexes.

Y'all musta forgot about this


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Ali beating Prime Foreman as a severe underdog is >than Jone's entire fucking career.


Ali beating Prime Foreman(considering the situation) is on par or close enough with Duran W Leonard.


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

and yes Ali dances around Prime Lennox and wins a competitive but clear 7-5.

and yes he would have called Lewis a British Uncle Tom.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

FelixTrinidad said:


> and yes Ali dances around Prime Lennox and wins a competitive but clear 7-5.
> 
> and yes he would have called Lewis a British Uncle Tom.


:yep 
:bbb


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> wait a minute wait a minute....:fire
> 
> what was *YOUR NUMBER 1 DOING AT 37? SHIT, WHAT WAS HE DOING AT 35? *
> 
> ...


Ali isn't the GOAT of anything. Roy Jones at his peak was untouchable. Ali at his peak was running off to jail and going nuts and death with Cooper atsch


----------



## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Looking back this just re-enforces Morales' GOATness with his top 5 vs the other 2 Mexi's :yep


shit how did i forget the boxing god!?

all praise be to morallah


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Relentless said:


> shit how did i forget the boxing god!?
> 
> all praise be to morallah


:bowdown


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> *Ali isn't the GOAT of anything.* Roy Jones at his peak was untouchable. Ali at his peak was running off to jail and going nuts and death with Cooper atsch


:rofl I love it when you talk dirty.

Damn.

#GauntletThrownDown


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :rofl I love it when you talk dirty.
> 
> Damn.
> 
> #GauntletThrownDown


Ali nuthuggers watch too much damned ESPN :-(


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

The lists are all a bit similar...


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Looking back this just re-enforces Morales' GOATness with his top 5 vs the other 2 Mexi's :yep


:eye

How does he go down greater than Marquez and Canto?
Chavez, Olivares, Sanchez, Saldivar, Canto, Marquez, Zarate..


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> :eye
> 
> How does he go down greater than Marquez and Canto?
> Chavez, Olivares, Sanchez, Saldivar, Canto, Marquez, Zarate..


I meant against Marquez/Barrera

Chavez, Olivares, Sanchez, Saldivar/Canto, Zarate, Morales, Marquez :deal


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> I meant against Marquez/Barrera
> 
> Chavez, Olivares, Sanchez, Saldivar/Canto, Zarate, Morales, Marquez :deal


My version of Marquez has 2-1-1 against Pacquiao and wins over John and Norwood. That perhaps explains it?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> My version of Marquez has 2-1-1 against Pacquiao and wins over John and Norwood. That perhaps explains it?


Possibly then. Though John does nothing for me even on paper and I felt Maquez lost to Norwood.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Addie right?


Stunning guess work, Bogotazo.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Stunning guess work, Bogotazo.


I must say I saw you had changed your username in the Mod lounge some time ago, but didn't commit it to memory. The discolored Barrera portrait, the dispassionate tone, the mild lack of love for a fighter's look on film...you might as well have posted a nude pic of Noni.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> I meant against Marquez/Barrera
> 
> Chavez, Olivares, Sanchez, Saldivar/Canto, Zarate, Morales, Marquez :deal


Saldivar's comp was a lot better than Canto's. :huh I mean you do list him first but no dash IMO. Saldivar's record has a real neatness quaility to it that I appreciate. :yep


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Ali isn't the GOAT of anything. Roy Jones at his peak was untouchable. Ali at his peak was running off to jail and going nuts and death with Cooper atsch


hall of fame wins...what they were doing at 37...what do you got next turbo :lol:

one for the road:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MGS said:


> hall of fame wins...what they were doing at 37...what do you got next turbo :lol:
> 
> one for the road:


Jones has dominant wins over higher rated fighters as well. Just like Floyd does vs Ali's wins over plodders and guys who just got shot :lol: atsch


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Ali-Liston is farcical. He lost to the best version of Frazier he fought and dropped two of three to Norton. Then there's the ring ropes scandal with Foreman.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Cutting gloves to bide time to answer the bell and clear his head. :rofl atsch


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Cutting gloves to bide time to answer the bell and clear his head. :rofl atsch


:rofl :rofl


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

This thread has gone a very different place than I expected. Is Senor Pepe here?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

LittleRed said:


> This thread has gone a very different place than I expected. Is Senor Pepe here?


Blame it on these crazed Ali nuthuggers.


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

I would pick Louis against Ali.


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

I would pick Tim Witherspoon against Ali.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> :eye
> 
> How does he go down greater than Marquez and Canto?
> Chavez, Olivares, Sanchez, Saldivar, Canto, Marquez, Zarate..


Add Morales and Barrera after Marquez and before Zarate, and our lists are identical. :good


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Add Morales and Barrera after Marquez and before Zarate, and our lists are identical. :good


Are you an Ali nuthugger bro? I dont know, he just doesnt seem the type to really do it for you like that.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Are you an Ali nuthugger bro? I dont know, he just doesnt seem the type to really do it for you like that.


I respect the hell out of Ali, and recognize his accomplishments, skills and his legacy and do believe that he is the GOAT of the Heavies.

But as far as his Boxing style goes, im not much of a fan.

I'm more of a Frazier, Tyson, Louis type guy when it comes to the Heavies.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> I respect the hell out of Ali, and recognize his accomplishments, skills and his legacy and do believe that he is the GOAT of the Heavies.
> 
> But as far as his Boxing style goes, im not much of a fan.
> 
> I'm more of a Frazier, Tyson, Louis type guy when it comes to the Heavies.


That's why you're Zopilote. :yep

TBTH I absolutely respect Ali :lol: atsch I really wouldn't put him in my top ten (or fifteen) on film but it's mostly just a piss take. this thread Died quick after what was said on the last page.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> That's why you're Zopilote. :yep
> 
> TBTH I absolutely respect Ali :lol: atsch I really wouldn't put him in my top ten (or fifteen) on film but it's mostly just a piss take. this thread Died quick after what was said on the last page.


:yep

Ali RARELY went to the body...Which is a big no no for me....You know how much i love my body snatchin' fighters. :deal


----------



## the cobra (Jun 6, 2013)

Ali would break Tyson.


Just saiyan.


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

the cobra said:


> Ali would break Tyson.
> 
> Just saiyan.


No! No bad the cobra!

1. Ali
2. Whitaker
3. Lopez
4. Khaosai
5. Canizales
6. Packey
7. Sithbrangpachan
8. Monzon
9. Chang
10. Carlos ortiz


----------



## the cobra (Jun 6, 2013)

LittleRed said:


> No!


Yes!



> No bad the cobra!


:twisted



> 1. Ali
> 2. Whitaker
> 3. Lopez
> 4. Khaosai
> ...


*YES! *:happy


----------



## frankenfrank (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :deal


Det woz old , not exactly 2d topic & not from hir . 
Naw I hev it :

McCall
Duran
McCallum
Carbajal
Sanchez
LaPorte
Camacho
Chavez
Tua
Mosley / Froch

or samsing laik zet

end i sink det Holyfield , Orlin Norris , James Toney , Muhammad Qawi kud hev izili ripleict sam in dis list .


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Yeah I'm gonna have to put McCallum in the top ten.



Sorry Hearnz, you ducked him anyway.


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

the cobra said:


> Yes!
> 
> :twisted
> 
> *YES! *:happy


That's an autocorrect mistake. Should be packey packey. Fixing.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Yeah I'm gonna have to put McCallum in the top ten.
> 
> Sorry Hearnz, you ducked him anyway.


Everyone talks about Hearns being the best 154lbser, FUCK THAT. The Body Snatcher is the best for me. :deal


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

:lol: Niccas gettin crazeh in hurr.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Everyone talks about Hearns being the best 154lbser, *FUCK THAT. The Body Snatcher* is the best for me. :deal


That's why you're Zopilote. :deal


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :lol: Niccas gettin crazeh in hurr.







The crowd reaction was pure awesomeness. Turn it up


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Ali-Liston is farcical. He lost to the best version of Frazier he fought and dropped two of three to Norton. Then there's the ring ropes scandal with Foreman.


was Ali at his best by then? still won both those trilogies. Its not scandal,
and he only got a few extra seconds against Cooper.
Farcical...heh. Your number 1 failed a drug test. Next.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Great stuff.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)




----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

:lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)




----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)




----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Two 200+ reply threads in back-to-back days. :deal

EDIT: Technically the same day in my t-zone.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Amazing what being an inner RoyBoy can doy for your mojo :deal


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Amazing what being an inner RoyBoy can doy for your mojo :deal


Shit ton of people didn't even list theirs. :verysad

80z/90z >>>>>> Today's bullshit. When there's no fight on, it isn't close.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hell 10 years ago was better than this and most werre still 90s stars.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Hell 10 years ago was better than this and most werre still 90s stars.


Fuck yea it was. 2003. Jesus Christ :verysad


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Blame it on these crazed Ali nuthuggers.


I have to do this:

Prime Roy Jones Jr will have 20+ Losses against Ali's Resume

Prime Ali would have ZERO losses against Roy's resume.


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

But in all seriousness............ are some of you trolling regarding Ali?

Roy is not better than Ali.. come on .

He's not better H2H. He's definitely not better resume..

I actually don't even know if he's even better P4P.


Ali is Boxing. In most cases nut hugging shouldn't be allowed but in the case of Muhammad Ali who transcends boxing.. nut hugging is not only allowed it should be required.

What the fuck is going on ?

Ali does things no Heavyweight should be capable of doing. 


Foreman was 10x more dangerous than Hopkins and Ali fought Peak Foreman way past his own prime.

Why are we talking about Norton as if he's some fucking bum?

Norton was an ATG Heavyweight. He would have brutally fucked Toney's shit in.


We seriously gonna pretend fucking Middleweight Fucks are better than legendary heavyweights now?

No.. they are not better.

Not resume
Not skills
certainly not in direct h2h
not heart


Fuck out of here if you think Roy Jones Jr had more heart than Ali... or if you think Toney had more heart than Frazier.
Fuck that bullshit.

Ali had 100x the heart Roy did. 
Frazier had 100x the heart Toney did.


P4P don't exist. It's mythical.

Resume exist.
Resume wise.. Ali rapes Jones.

I would LOVE to see HW Roy fight Ali of Terrell fight.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

Boom.


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

all you gotta do is look at whos at the top of the page man. tells you everything. :bbb


----------



## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

I see McCallum getting quite a few votes lately. Flavour of the month? I honestly found him relatively boring to watch. Not to say he was a very good (maybe even great) fighter, but to be on a top 10 list I think you have to be something really special. Personally I never saw that "specialness" in Mike.


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

In no order

Muhammad Ali
Larry Holmes
Roberto Duran
Salvador Sanchez
Alexis Arguello
Sugar Ray Leonard
Thomas Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Julio Ceasar Chavez
Pernell Whitaker


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I must say I saw you had changed your username in the Mod lounge some time ago, but didn't commit it to memory. The discolored Barrera portrait, the dispassionate tone, the mild lack of love for a fighter's look on film...you might as well have posted a nude pic of Noni.


:yep Very good.

You mention a "mild lack of love" for how certain fighters look on film, but I have been watching Masao Ohba as of late and I have been very impressed with him. Offensively speaking, anyhow. I love the way he triples his jab and mixes up his offense with lead right hands and the occasional left hook to the body. Lovely technique. He does tend to back up in straight lines with his chin up in the ring lights though. That isn't usually a recipe for success.

I look forward to watching more of Ohba.



> I see McCallum getting quite a few votes lately. Flavour of the month? I honestly found him relatively boring to watch. Not to say he was a very good (maybe even great) fighter, but to be on a top 10 list I think you have to be something really special. Personally I never saw that "specialness" in Mike.


I tend to agree with this.

Mike achieved more and had a greater career overall, but Kalambay genuinely looked special in some of his fights. I thought he made McCallum and Graham look like C level opposition at times.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

@Pedderrs Great to see you back, Addie.

I actually did give Kalambay a shout way back on the fourth page. :yep I like all of the guys who came on at MW in the post-Hagler era (Toney, McCallum, Kalambay, Nunn), all incredibly talented and a lot of fights were being made back then.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

^^ Surreal performance
















:lol: :yep


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)




----------



## JohnH (May 22, 2013)

1. Hagler.
2. Hearns.
3. Tyson.
4. Benn.
5. Duran.
6. Leonard.
7. Lewis.
8. Jones Jr.
9. W Klitschko.
10. Nunn.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

@JohnH Loving the "Second To" selection.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

@Teeto It's Time. :deal


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> ^^ Surreal performance
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was the one who crafted that Michael Nunn highlight. :yep


----------



## Rexrapper 1 (Jun 4, 2013)

1.Roy Jones Jr
2.Sugar Ray Leonard
3.Pernell Whitaker 
4.Roberto Duran
5.Floyd Mayweather Jr
6.Sugar Ray Robinson
7.Muhammad Ali
8.James Toney
9.Salvador Sanchez 
10.Jose Napoles 

HM: Julio Cesar Chavez Sr, Joe Louis, Bernard Hopkins, Tommy Hearns, Ezzard Charles and Tyson


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

@Hands of Iron

ok, I'm doing this purely on how great they looked to me, not on resume etc

In no order though sorry my man-

Sugar Ray Robinson
Roberto Duran
Pernell Whitaker
Ruben Olivares
Muhammad Ali
Roy Jones jr
Ezzard Charles
Jung Koo Chang
Sugar Ray Leonard
Floyd Mayweather jr

I really wanted to leave out Mayweather and put in Yoko Gushiken but it would have been too biased :lol:


----------



## McGrain (Jul 6, 2012)

Sugar Ray Robinson
Roy Jones Junior
Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Roberto Duran
Tony Canzoneri
Pernell Whitaker
Sugar Ray Leonard
Floyd Mayweather
Carlos Monzon

Or some shit.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Julio Cesar Chavez Sr
Myung Woo Yuh
Masao Ohba
Sumbu Kalambay
Paul Hodkinson
Jung Koo Chang
Johnny Tapia
Barry McGuigan
Marco Antonio Barrera
Gerry Penalosa

Simple as.

HM: Orlando Canizales, Yoko Gushiken, Bert Cooper, Lionel Rose (vs Fighting Harada)


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> I was the one who crafted that Michael Nunn highlight. :yep


Hah, what a coincidence. :good



Teeto said:


> @Hands of Iron
> 
> ok, I'm doing this purely on how great they looked to me, not on resume etc
> 
> ...





McGrain said:


> Sugar Ray Robinson
> Roy Jones Junior
> Muhammad Ali
> Joe Louis
> ...


Ya Dig?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

@Luf Isn't this your kind of deal now?


----------



## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> @Luf Isn't this your kind of deal now?


yeah man :good

Robinson
Whittaker
Jones Jr
Armstrong
Duran
R Leonard
Hearns
B Leonard
Pep
Ali


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Of all time: (in terms of just how impressive they look)

1.Robinson
2.Duran
3.Jones Jr
4.Pernell Whitaker
5. Mike Tyson
6.Sugar Ray Leonard
7.Ali
8.Hearns
9.Toney
10.Napoles

That list would probably completely change if asked again, really difficult thing to narrow down to 10 fighters of fighters that just look sick


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

If we take each fighter at their peak, and rate them in that order I'll have


Roy Jones Junior

Roberto Duran

Sugar Ray Leonard

Sugar Ray Robinson

Muhammad Ali

Mike Tyson

Pernell Sweat Pea

Julio Cesar Chavez

Floyd Mayweather Junior

James Toney


I came close to giving the number ten spot to guys like Shane Mosley, Winky Wright, Marvin Hagler, etc.

I'd also guess that had Rigondeuax turned pro four years before he had, I might be hard pushed to include him in this list.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Duran at #2 ?! :stonk :happy

We're about the exact same in terms of names.


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Duran at #2 ?! :stonk :happy
> 
> We're about the exact same in terms of names.


Watching Duran, you get a real sense that he was born to fight.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

SJS20 said:


> Watching Duran, you get a real sense that he was born to fight.


So you really do admire his practically seamless blend and transition of offense/defense, immense array and use of feints, educated pressure, superiority in close quarters, etc? :yep I'm not saying you ever said he was shit or anything :lol: I'm just a bit surprised so high. He was unquestionably a lot more raw (though never down to the stereotypical level) in the early years of his LW reign, but Christ did he ever put it together on the back half and his venture into 147.


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> So you really do admire his practically seamless blend and transition of offense/defense, immense array and use of feints, educated pressure, superiority in close quarters, etc? :yep I'm not saying you ever said he was shit or anything :lol: I'm just a bit surprised so high. He was unquestionably a lot more raw (though never down to the stereotypical level) in the early years of his LW reign, but Christ did he ever put it together on the back half and his venture into 147.







Skill, spirit and ferocity.

Watching Duran actually changed the way that I train. I used to focus on technique, drill punches over and over, watch in the mirror, stop, adjust my body and repeat. Slow and cautious, only using speed during sparring, not during preparation. Now I train ferocious, intention behind every shot.

The transition you mention is just wonderful, the mesh is why I'd love to see Duran vs Chavez, just as much as I'd love to see any other metaphorical super fight. Feinting (You're very good at seeing things) is probably my favorite attribute for a fighter to have, Marquez, Alexis, Duran. To feint and make the other re-act as you want them too, is mastery. It can over come any deficit in speed, it's wonderful.

Lightweight Duran showed savagery, and Welterweight Duran showed a touch more craft to supplement that.

How many lightweights do you know of, who could push Hagler the way he did?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

All 3 of us are very close in our lists.


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

@Hands of Iron.

By 'seen' do you mean watch full fights of? 
Or like 'highlights' or 'live'?


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

FelixTrinidad said:


> @Hands of Iron.
> 
> By 'seen' do you mean watch full fights of?
> Or like 'highlights' or 'live'?


If it's who we've seen in the flesh, then I'll be forced to include Senchenko...


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Meldrick Taylor is another. Man, he looked so amazing despite what happened in the Chavez fight. His combos and movement. God damn.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

FelixTrinidad said:


> @Hands of Iron.
> 
> By 'seen' do you mean watch full fights of?
> Or like 'highlights' or 'live'?


Full fights, brother.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

SJS20 said:


> Skill, spirit and ferocity.
> 
> Watching Duran actually changed the way that I train. I used to focus on technique, drill punches over and over, watch in the mirror, stop, adjust my body and repeat. Slow and cautious, only using speed during sparring, not during preparation. Now I train ferocious, intention behind every shot.
> 
> ...


Silly good post. Love the added perspective of your own training.


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Silly good post. Love the added perspective of your own training.


I should be fighting next June.

You sitting through to watch Mikey and Donaire?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

SJS20 said:


> I should be fighting next June.
> 
> You sitting through to watch Mikey and Donaire?


Im watching, but I dissapear from posting. The RBR stuff is too hectic.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> All 3 of us are very close in our lists.


Surprising to me, especially the Toney picks. Thought you guys would consider his wheels and footwork too inferior to make a Top 10. What he did do though (repeated over and over already) he did extraordinarily well. Mindblowing well.



turbotime said:


> Meldrick Taylor is another. Man, he looked so amazing despite what happened in the Chavez fight. His combos and movement. God damn.


The best display of his talent may actually be the Chavez fight itself. HBO was pretty awful though.


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Surprising to me, especially the Toney picks. Thought you guys would consider his wheels and footwork too inferior to make a Top 10. What he did do though (repeated over and over already) he did extraordinarily well. Mindblowing well.
> 
> The best display of his talent may actually be the Chavez fight itself. HBO was pretty awful though.


I struggle to think of someone fighting better out of the pocket.

Mayweather is in the conversation, but he had such speed. Toney never really enjoyed the luxuary of being super human in that department. (Not that he was slow, not by any means.)

I'm considering going to see Toney in prizefighter, but I'm torn over it.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> All 3 of us are very close in our lists.





SJS20 said:


> I struggle to think of someone fighting better out of the pocket.
> 
> Mayweather is in the conversation, but he had such speed. Toney never really enjoyed the luxuary of being super human in that department. (Not that he was slow, not by any means.)
> 
> I'm considering going to see Toney in prizefighter, but I'm torn over it.


Yeah, Floyd can definitely more than hold his ground there, Toney basically lived there. :lol: His head and upper body movement was just awesome, the short right hand counters, inside right uppercuts and hooks to the body. And yeah, definitely not slow just not nearly as polished in the footwork dept as would probably be prefered and could be exploited. His hand speed though was exceptionally above average imo. They're both @MichiganWarrior 's though.

EDIT: Referencing his 160-168 days.



bballchump11 said:


> 01. Meldrick Taylor


:ibutt


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Yeah, Floyd can definitely more than hold his ground there, Toney basically lived there. :lol: His head and upper body movement was just awesome, the short right hand counters, inside right uppercuts and hooks to the body. And yeah, definitely not slow just not nearly as polished in the footwork dept as would probably be prefered and could be exploited. His hand speed though was exceptionally above average imo.
> 
> EDIT: Referencing his 160-168 days.


Yep, Toney set up shop there and was quite comfortable. In his prime he wasn't too far behind Floyd in terms of speed IMO.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> The best display of his talent may actually be the Chavez fight itself. HBO was pretty awful though.


Yeah the fight was really close. If Taylor had moer responsible defense he'd have been a true great because he was stylin on Chavez when he wanted to but would ratherr punch him in the face instead, sadly.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Yeah the fight was really close. If Taylor had moer responsible defense he'd have been a true great because he was stylin on Chavez when he wanted to but would ratherr punch him in the face instead, sadly.


I really wish Jones had just fought Toney flat footed at ring center for 12 rounds and proved himself more of a man. :verysad






I watched that fight in hindsight knowing the result and still hoped for a Michael Nunn-type finish. :lol:

@McGrain wrote about this fight, I think.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I really wish Jones had just fought Toney flat footed at ring center for 12 rounds and proved himself more of a man. :verysad
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lol:

We saw what happened at center ring when they stood there :deal


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Yeah the fight was really close. If Taylor had moer responsible defense he'd have been a true great because he was stylin on Chavez when he wanted to but would ratherr punch him in the face instead, sadly.


Philly product.

Where he come from was his end.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> Philly product.
> 
> Where he come from was his end.


Very true. Watching some of his highlights this morning Man he was good


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :lol:
> 
> We saw what happened at center ring when they stood there :deal


:lol:

He's not beating Roy, Ever.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

SJS20 said:


> Philly product.
> 
> Where he come from was his end.





turbotime said:


> Very true. Watching some of his highlights this morning Man he was good


What an absolutely Monstrous win that would've been. Chavez was damn prime, all right. Meldrick was already Top 5 fighter at the time.


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> What an absolutely Monstrous win that would've been. Chavez was damn prime, all right. Meldrick was already Top 5 fighter at the time.


Taylor vs Camacho?


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Taylor struggled with Howard Davis speed. I just might take Cacho.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

LittleRed said:


> Taylor struggled with Howard Davis speed. I just might take Cacho.


Really is a pick 'em, isn't it? It actually slipped that they were both beltholders around the same time, though Taylor was better suited for 140 and Hector had fallen off a good bit.


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Really is a pick 'em, isn't it? It actually slipped that they were both beltholders around the same time, though Taylor was better suited for 140 and Hector had fallen off a good bit.


It's rapt too close to call. Would've been a heck of a fight around '88 when Taylor was coming into his own and Camacho was starting to slip.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

You guys are nuts. Taylor outfights Camacho in every round.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> You guys are nuts. Taylor outfights Camacho in every round.


He'd definitely work harder for it.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Plus me and @LittleRed don't like fantasy fights. We're hindsight guys.


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

I'm all about hindsight. Turbo have you seen Taylor-Davis.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

I've seen pretty much every Taylor fight available. Camacho/Taylor vs Davis does very little in my fight analysis.


----------



## the cobra (Jun 6, 2013)

Camacho in his prime was better than Taylor in his prime.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> I've seen pretty much every Taylor fight available. Camacho/Taylor vs Davis does very little in my fight analysis.


Firm


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> I've seen pretty much every Taylor fight available. Camacho/Taylor vs Davis does very little in my fight analysis.


Because Taylor improved or because Camacho is better than Davis and a southpaw? 


the cobra said:


> Camacho in his prime was better than Taylor in his prime.


:deal

is that krillin in Dragon Ball?


----------



## the cobra (Jun 6, 2013)

LittleRed said:


> :deal
> 
> is that krillin in Dragon Ball?


:lol:

I changed it totally on a whim late two days ago, forgot I did it, and then posted, and laughed hysterically. I don't know, it was just funny to see Krillin there. _Kid Krillin_ at that. It made me happy.

It'll stay for a while because of that.


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

the cobra said:


> :lol:
> 
> I changed it totally on a whim late two days ago, forgot I did it, and then posted, and laughed hysterically. I don't know, it was just funny to see Krillin there. _Kid Krillin_ at that. It made me happy.
> 
> It'll stay for a while because of that.


Never seen Dragon Ball. But I find it funny.


----------



## the cobra (Jun 6, 2013)

LittleRed said:


> Never seen Dragon Ball. But I find it funny.


You seen DBZ though, or at least DBZ Abridged. This was an old pic I had saved on my computer, and I just happened by it when looking for a different avatar. So it goes.

Dragon Ball's good shit. If you've got the time, you should check it out.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

LittleRed said:


> Because Taylor improved or because Camacho is better than Davis and a southpaw?


A mix of what you said L. The Rosario and Haugen fights tell me much more about Camacho at that point in time.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

LittleRed said:


> *Never seen Dragon Ball.* But I find it funny.


YeH Cobra mentioned his avatar guy in another thread but I didn't have a clue what he was on about. :lol:


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

the cobra said:


> You seen DBZ though, or at least DBZ Abridged. This was an old pic I had saved on my computer, and I just happened by it when looking for a different avatar. So it goes.
> 
> Dragon Ball's good shit. If you've got the time, you should check it out.


Shit I've read the manga. Just haven't seen the anime. Seen DBZ but never touched the manga. One of those things. 


turbotime said:


> A mix of what you said L. The Rosario and Haugen fights tell me much more about Camacho at that point in time.


Yeah I forgot how early the rosario fight was really. Short prime for camacho but a long career. Unkayoable at lay. But of course taylor does not need a knockout to win. 


Hands of Iron said:


> YeH Cobra mentioned his avatar guy in another thread but I didn't have a clue what he was on about. :lol:


The abridged series on YouTube tells you everything you need to know.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

LittleRed said:


> Shit I've read the manga. Just haven't seen the anime. Seen DBZ but never touched the manga. One of those things.
> 
> Yeah I forgot how early the rosario fight was really. Short prime for camacho but a long career. Unkayoable at lay. But of course taylor does not need a knockout to win.
> 
> The abridged series on YouTube tells you everything you need to know.


Camacho got the most out of his prime IMO how much better does it get with wins over Rosario/ramirez and Haugen ? He wasn't beating Chavez then he moved up and got the Oskee, Lenny and tito paydays. Crazy.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

And now he's been shot dead. 

:conf


Life is so fragile.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Ive said that so much did you just say that to make me whimper? Did you? I thought this was America!?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Of course not :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

LittleRed said:


> Shit I've read the manga. Just haven't seen the anime. Seen DBZ but never touched the manga. One of those things.
> 
> Yeah I forgot how early the rosario fight was really. Short prime for camacho but a long career. Unkayoable at lay. But of course taylor does not need a knockout to win.
> 
> The abridged series on YouTube tells you everything you need to know.


Is it worth it? :think


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Is it worth it? :think


The abridged series? I'm not sure if it works if you haven't seen the anime. But each episode is only like 10 minutes and covers a lot of time. Chock full of references to everything internety.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Cool


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Looking back, Mike Tyson looked phenomenal.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

SJS20 said:


> Looking back, Mike Tyson looked phenomenal.


Yeah, without looking at the OP I don't even remember how I ordered them anymore :lol:

Jones
Manos
Sweet Pea
SRR
SRL
FMJ
Lights Out
JCC
Iron Mike
Body Snatcher


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Yeah, without looking at the OP I don't even remember how I ordered them anymore :lol:
> 
> Jones
> Manos
> ...


Pacquaio should have more mentions in all honesty, you could take a few of his performances, and if we're basing solely on filmed dominance, then he'd deserve a shout.

Cotto being one that jumps out at me


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

SJS20 said:


> Pacquaio should have more mentions in all honesty, you could take a few of his performances, and if we're basing solely on filmed dominance, then he'd deserve a shout.
> 
> Cotto being one that jumps out at me


Or Barrera I.

He didnt really get much of any mentions, did he? @SouthPaw I think


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Toney is getting overrated.....but when you think that he still wasn´t stopped to this day fighting HWs and everything, it´s alright.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

:lol: :yep


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

I'm grieving over the fact that Toney lost to Jason Gavern today. Fuck that.


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

JMP said:


> I'm grieving over the fact that Toney lost to Jason Gavern today. Fuck that.


Toney got to meet Anthony Joshua though.


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

FelixTrinidad said:


> Toney got to meet Anthony Joshua though.


Thanks for cheering me up. It's like when John F. Kennedy had the honor of meeting Bill Clinton:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JMP said:


> Thanks for cheering me up. It's like when John F. Kennedy had the honor of meeting Bill Clinton:


Just stop it. I'm not in the mood to talk about this Prizefighter stuff. :-(


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Here is my official 10 greatest fighters I ever seen. (At least 5+ fights) I went back and rewatched some more Leonard and Whitakker.

so

1- Muhammad Ali
2-Roy Jones Jr
3-Pernell Whitakker
4-Lennox Lewis
5-Sugar Ray Leonard
6-Mike Tyson
7-Manny Pacquaio
8-Oscar De La Hoya
9-Evander Holyfield
10-Wladimir Klitschko


----------



## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Still havn't done this :lol:

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Pernell Whitaker
?. Muhammad Ali
?. Roy Jones Jr
?. Sugar Ray Leonard
?. Salvador Sanchez
?. Tommy Hearns
?. Roberto Duran
?. James Toney
?. Joe Louis
?. Marvin Hagler

HM: Mayweather, Marciano (Yes really), Chavez, Gomez, Nelson, Charles, McCallum,Taylor, Holyfield, Tyson...good lord I could go on all day. I'm not happy with my list other than number 1 and 2 so everything else is in no particular order.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Still havn't done this :lol:
> 
> 1. Sugar Ray Robinson
> 2. Pernell Whitaker
> ...


Yeah, I'm not happy with my list either. Fuck this thread, it needs to die.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

And I need to flat out stop posting here but I get dragged in easily.


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands got the best fighters ever .. I looked up all his fighters and they are indeed special.

I know Hands that at times you get a bit down due to how good the past eras were(and they really were)

Don't worry..... man.. I'll get that Roy Jones Jr Express started when it's fight week time (Dec 21st)
:happy


----------



## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Yeah, I'm not happy with my list either. Fuck this thread, it needs to die.


Yeah I already want to make some changes. Shit is too difficult.


----------



## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

It's intellectually dishonest to have Louis/Tyson/Ali in your top 10 and Lennox no where in sight when even most Boxing Experts and historians admit Lennox would have been 50/50 against Peak Tyson and a very live dog against Ali..
Lewis flat out KO Joe Loius.. it's not even close....... it really isn't.. I know a lot of old timers and wannabe 'classic posters' will ramble off some absurd lines which they stole from Mcgrain or some of those ESB Historians.. lines along the likes of 'Loius was a LETHAL finisher, AMAZING COMBINATIONS, SOME OF THE BEST PUNCHING TACTICS I EVER SEEN'.. of course not one of these posters actually seen Louis fights in it's entirety because the guy was a lot more flawed than Lennox, had a chin only a slight tier above Wlad's and fought an array of 5'11 190 pound CruiserWeights...


----------



## Yiddle (Jul 10, 2012)

Today and Not in any order 

M.Hagler
B.Ross
R.Duran
P.Whitaker
R.Robinson
L.Holmes
J.Louis
E.Jofre
K.Gavilan
S. Sanchez


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I really wish Jones had just fought Toney flat footed at ring center for 12 rounds and proved himself more of a man. :verysad
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lol: At watching that video back. Showing clips of zale - graziano as if this fight would be any indication :rofl


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :lol: At watching that video back. Showing clips of zale - graziano as if this fight would be any indication :rofl


Did this need to be resurrected? :verysad

I don't like this thread.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Did this need to be resurrected? :verysad
> 
> I don't like this thread.


Where is your list :-(


----------



## McGrain (Jul 6, 2012)

01 - Sugar Ray Robinson
02 - Roy Jones
03 - Roberto Duran
04 - Pernell Whitaker
05 - Ray Leonard
06 - Muhammad Ali
07 - Joe Louis
08 - Ray Leonard
09 - Willie Pep
10 - Wilfredo Gomez

Kid Gavilan and Floyd Mayweather are next up.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Where is your list :-(


Quoted a few times throughout the thread, no?

I actually had a big opening post too. I got in one of my little ****** moods in here it looks like.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Quoted a few times throughout the thread, no?
> 
> I actually had a big opening post too. I got in one of my little ****** moods in here it looks like.


Buy a mood ring, it'll let you know when you should post.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Buy a mood ring, it'll let you know when you should post.


:rofl


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

McGrain said:


> 01 - Sugar Ray Robinson
> 02 - Roy Jones
> 03 - Roberto Duran
> 04 - Pernell Whitaker
> ...


This is a nice list. Even if Sasha is overrated.


----------



## SamO408 (May 13, 2013)

Chavez
Oskie
Whitaker
Holyfield
Floyd
Jones
JMM
Mosley
Tyson
Toney


----------



## SamO408 (May 13, 2013)

Wait a minute.... @Hands of Iron

Is this an all time greatest fighters list, or greatest fighters weve actually seen fighting?


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Duran
Jones
Leonard
Whitaker
Chang
Robinson
Wilfredo Gomez
Harada
Louis
Rodriguez

Hard pick. Jeff Fenech was close. Nearly had Kalambay in there for a few incredible performances, same as Salvador Sanchez and Ernesto Marcel. Ricardo Lopez is one of the best I've seen, but he didn't find anyone impressive enough to make the grade. I've not just gone on aesthetics. Ali very nearly made the grade as well, but as Louis is the greatest puncher I've ever seen, and punching is a pretty vital part of boxing, then he had to make the cut, even though I see Ali as the greater fighter.

Louis took Arguello's spot.

But I went with the guys where there is more footage of them looking amazing against either better opposition or looking consistently amazing.

EDIT: The above isn't really in a strict order, just a top 10. Although Duran would probably be the best fighter I've ever seen on film.

ANOTHER EDIT: Removed Chavez, inserted Tyson. ANOTHER EDIT: Removed Tyson, added LMR


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Jones has dominant wins over higher rated fighters as well. Just like Floyd does vs Ali's wins over plodders and guys who just got shot :lol: atsch


This is one of the worst posts I've ever seen.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

FelixTrinidad said:


> *But in all seriousness............ are some of you trolling regarding Ali?*
> 
> Roy is not better than Ali.. come on .
> 
> ...


Quite a bit.


----------



## Mr Magic (Jun 3, 2013)

Surprised by the lack of Roberto Duran in all you gentlemen's lists.

He was the definition of a fighter, rough rugged and supremely skilled.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Mr Magic said:


> Surprised by the lack of Roberto Duran in all you gentlemen's lists.
> 
> He was the definition of a fighter, rough rugged and supremely skilled.


He's in most people's lists. He's at the top of mine.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Quite a bit.


I could easily see Ali above Jones, for all these reasons.

But I don't have him that high....questionable perhaps.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Mr Magic said:


> Surprised by the lack of Roberto Duran in all you gentlemen's lists.
> 
> He was the definition of a fighter, rough rugged and supremely skilled.


He was my #2 .


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> He was my #2 .


Any objections to my list? :hey


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Any objections to my list? :hey


No, they're all awesome. Especially with Tyson and Chavez both right on the peripheral.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Is Sal' really better on film than Marcel?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> I could easily see Ali above Jones, for all these reasons.
> 
> But I don't have him that high....questionable perhaps.


This could've been a pretty good quality thread - and it is in spurts - but I sabotaged it with a lot of blatant trolling.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> This could've been a pretty good quality thread - and it is in spurts - but I sabotaged it with a lot of blatant trolling.


Well I'm here now so dissect my list bish :yep :good


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Robinson
Duran
Jones
Whitaker
Hearns
Leonard
Louis
Tyson
Pep
GGG (come at me brah :lol

HM: Ali, Jofre, Gomez, Sanchez


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> I could easily see Ali above Jones, for all these reasons.
> 
> But I don't have him that high....questionable perhaps.





Flea Man said:


> Well I'm here now so dissect my list bish :yep :good


:rofl

You have a lot of the same fighters though. I can't critique someone picking Joe Louis or LMR.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> :rofl
> 
> You have a lot of the same fighters though. I can't critique someone picking Joe Louis or LMR.


Fair do's.


----------



## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

Ali, SRR, Hearns, SRL, Rigondeaux, Lennox Lewis, Joe Louis, Armstrong, Mayweather, ah nah forget McCallum I forgot and RJJ he's of course in the list
This list is completely subjective and I think you can only make a subjective list


----------



## gumbo2176 (May 17, 2013)

Fighters I've actually seen fight in my lifetime either live or on TV:

Duran
Leonard
Hagler
Ali
Foreman
JCC
Tyson
Frazier
RJ Jr.
Salvador Sanchez short career, but great fighter.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> Ali, SRR, Hearns, SRL, Rigondeaux, Lennox Lewis, Joe Louis, Armstrong, Mayweather, ah nah forget McCallum I forgot and RJJ he's of course in the list
> This list is completely subjective and I think you can only make a subjective list


Switch a few of those names around in order and you get the exact reason I can't do this and stick to it.

I prefer to go on my own personal favourites,and Barrera at #2 rarely goes down well.


----------



## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> Switch a few of those names around in order and you get the exact reason I can't do this and stick to it.
> 
> I prefer to go on my own personal favourites,and Barrera at #2 rarely goes down well.


It's in no order that would be too hard to to even if I'm completely subjective I couldn't make an order in the top 10 that's impossible


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> Switch a few of those names around in order and you get the exact reason I can't do this and stick to it.
> 
> I prefer to go on my own personal favourites,and Barrera at #2 rarely goes down well.


I think it'd be alright in the end. We're all gonna die anyway.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> I think it'd be alright in the end. We're all gonna die anyway.


:lol: Very true.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

No order because that'd be way too difficult:

Ali
Whitaker
SRR
SRL
Tyson
Duran
Louis 
Sanchez
Hagler
Tapia


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> No order because that'd be way too difficult:
> 
> Ali
> Whitaker
> ...


Sanchez over Marcel? Even though we have footage of Sal' struggling when forced to lead?


----------



## McGrain (Jul 6, 2012)

turbotime said:


> This is a nice list. Even if Sasha is overrated.


Nonsense. She is one of the four things you can't overate. The others are SCOTTISH whisky, Greb, Christmas dinner.


----------



## Bill Jincock (Jun 19, 2012)

Y'all musta forgot


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Sanchez over Marcel? Even though we have footage of Sal' struggling when forced to lead?


Not enough footage of Marcel for my liking, and frankly I don't know if he is any better than Sanchez.. Saw him against Arguello (green?) Duran (green) and then 2 other fights against Shibata and Gomez

We also have footage of Sal destroying Gomez and Nelson


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

McGrain said:


> Nonsense. She is one of the four things you can't overate. The others are SCOTTISH whisky, Greb, Christmas dinner.


Watch her in entourage :-( I'll give you the other 3. Canadian Whisky as well......with ginger ale? :err


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

SamO408 said:


> Chavez
> Oskie
> Whitaker
> Holyfield
> ...


A wild Sam appears!


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Switch a few of those names around in order and you get the exact reason I can't do this and stick to it.
> 
> I prefer to go on my own personal *favourites,and Barrera at #2 rarely goes down well.*


Certainly not when you're getting pasted up by JJ


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Any objections to my list? :hey


Louis who is basically Arguello who is basically Zarate sticks out like a dick on a cake.

P4P Jofre would destroy him.

Ortiz would outpoint him.

Benny would school him.

Gans would outpoint, school and destroy him.

And fuck textbook too.


----------



## McGrain (Jul 6, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Watch her in entourage :-( I'll give you the other 3. Canadian Whisky as well......with ginger ale? :err


:sad5


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

McGrain said:


> :sad5


:bronesgoat


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

Of fighters that I have watched a significant amount of footage

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Roberto Duran
4. Joe Louis
5. Sugar Ray Leonard
6. Marvin Hagler
7. Pernell Whitaker
8. Roy Jones Jr
9. Manny Pacquiao
10. Floyd Mayweather Jr

HM: LaMotta, Rigo, Locche, JC Chavez, Frazier, Marciano

I got a lot of legends whose careers I have yet to truly watch unfold and analyse but that's my list as of now.

I think I'm missing something with Tyson. :conf


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Ivan Drago said:


> I think I'm missing something with Tyson. :conf


Elaborate.

my interpretation of this thread is purely just looking at all of these fighters at their absolute prime.. you don't see anything special about late 80s Tyson?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Yeah, I could probs take out Mosley and put Tyson in. I just love Shane a lot though


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> Not enough footage of Marcel for my liking, and frankly I don't know if he is any better than Sanchez.. Saw him against Arguello (green?) Duran (green) and then 2 other fights against Shibata and Gomez
> 
> We also have footage of Sal destroying Gomez and Nelson


Gomez (small featherweight) Nelson (greener than Arguello)

If you want to play it like that.

What we have seen is Marcel fight better off the fromt foot as well as being an incredible boxer.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Bill Jincock said:


> Y'all musta forgot


:clap:


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Certainly not when you're getting pasted up by JJ


Or stopped by a body shot by Bernard "Big Valero" Hopkins:bart


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Bill Jincock said:


> Y'all musta forgot


Good shout,and TBF if I posted a 10 he'd be in there.
People were afraid of the man's shadow.


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Elaborate.
> 
> my interpretation of this thread is purely just looking at all of these fighters at their absolute prime.. you don't see anything special about late 80s Tyson?


Special yeah of course. He destroyed a lot of guys in a manner few others in boxing history have replicated. However I don't think he ever destroyed anyone special, anyone that was or should have been a real challenge to him, and when he didn't blow the guy out in the first round and was in a boxing match he was very skillful but I just don't think top 10 ever skillful. Not the same level as Duran, Ali, Mayweather etc.

I loved him when I was young, you'd be insane not to, and still do but I just believe he's overrated by a lot of people.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Bill Jincock said:


> Y'all musta forgot


Yawn


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Or stopped by a body shot by Bernard "Big Valero" Hopkins:bart


:stonk

@Pitythecunt :verysad


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Watch her in entourage :-( I'll give you the other 3. Canadian Whisky as well......with ginger ale? :err


She's a brain-dead skank with a millionaire boyfriend. There are species of shrubbery that can act better than Sasha. Many of them are sexier, as well.And wait - Is there really such a thing as Scottish whiskey? Isn't it all, by definition, SCOTCH? Using the term "scottish whiskey" seems to make as much sense as putting Sasha Grey in a serious film or TV show.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Gomez (small featherweight) Nelson (greener than Arguello)
> 
> If you want to play it like that.
> 
> What we have seen is Marcel fight better off the fromt foot as well as being an incredible boxer.


Nelson did not look green did he. 
Gomez, an undefeated featherweight who was coming off a nice winning streak ending with LaPorte. For somebody that was "green" Nelson looked pretty damn good.

He was extremely poised for a 12-0 pro. but sure he was green too.. Still a great win IMO.

You realize I'm not the only one that has Sanchez in my list, right? you may as well jump on me for having Tapia in there too :bart


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

:55s in, awesome


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> :stonk
> 
> @Pitythecunt :verysad


C'mon turbo.You can't run down the court like Isiah Thomas calling me bitch and then be upset because I'm Larry Bird.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> C'mon turbo.You can't run down the court like Isiah Thomas calling me bitch and then be upset because I'm Larry Bird.


:lol: That was a great analogy.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Ivan Drago said:


> Special yeah of course. He destroyed a lot of guys in a manner few others in boxing history have replicated. However I don't think he ever destroyed anyone special, anyone that was or should have been a real challenge to him, and when he didn't blow the guy out in the first round and was in a boxing match he was very skillful but I just don't think top 10 ever skillful. Not the same level as Duran, Ali, Mayweather etc.
> 
> I loved him when I was young, you'd be insane not to, and still do but I just believe he's overrated by a lot of people.


I figured it would have been the competition that would be the deal breaker.. My issue is that when he was at his absolute prime, there wasn't anybody "special" for him to KO. The main opportunity that he missed (due to timing) was fighting Holyfield when they were both basically at their best.

But I agree that his lack of competition has to be factored in, the same way that it has to be factored in against Floyd Mayweather. Instead of schooling people over 12 rounds, Tyson would KO people in the first round. Apples and oranges, they both require tremendous amounts of skill.

Remember that this list just isn't about skills; it's about the top 10 best FIGHTERS period. doesn't necessarily mean skills as a pure boxer.

I think the way that Tyson would rip the body, his explosiveness, the way he would absolutely destroy opposition with his combination punching puts him in the top 10 imo.


----------



## Bill Jincock (Jun 19, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Yawn


:-(

no respect for technical ability in here.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Bill Jincock said:


> :-(
> 
> no respect for technical ability in here.


May, Whitaker, Leonard in my top 5 atsch


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> I figured it would have been the competition that would be the deal breaker.. My issue is that when he was at his absolute prime, there wasn't anybody "special" for him to KO. The main opportunity that he missed (due to timing) was fighting Holyfield when they were both basically at their best.
> 
> But I agree that his lack of competition has to be factored in, the same way that it has to be factored in against Floyd Mayweather. *Instead of schooling people over 12 rounds, Tyson would KO people in the first round. Apples and oranges, they both require tremendous amounts of skill.*
> 
> ...


You know, I get that. I always try and remember that it's a sport and the goal is to win and the two main ways to do this are by KO or decision. I don't show bias to fighters that can school a guy over 12 rounds over a KO artist because ultimatelly they have achieved the same outcome. I'm not holding Tyson's destructiveness against him I just never saw it against a great fighter in prime. As you say that's not his fault as with many other greats but it still doesn't change the fact.

I agree with all your points apart from the subjective ones, I just rate his fighting ability lower than you. I always thought his defense wasn't as elusive as a lot of people say but he did have a ridiculously versatile offensive arsenal. You have most likely studied his career more than me so perhaps I'll change my view over time.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Ivan Drago said:


> You know, I get that. I always try and remember that it's a sport and the goal is to win and the two main ways to do this are by KO or decision. I don't show bias to fighters that can school a guy over 12 rounds over a KO artist because ultimately they have achieved the same outcome.


True. I personally don't think it's fair to say Floyd was more skilled than Tyson; they were skilled in different fields. What I will say is that Floyd was more versatile. Tyson was great in the dimension that he mastered though. Instead of potshotting Tyson would go for the kill. I think they are equivalent, in different ways.

*



I'm not holding Tyson's destructiveness against him I just never saw it against a great fighter in prime. As you say that's not his fault as with many other greats but it still doesn't change the fact.

Click to expand...

*Well, can't you say the same thing against Floyd? The "great" fighters he beat were Marquez, DLH and Mosley, and you can discredit all of those wins, one way or another. I'd argue none of those fighters were at their best, so you could say Floyd never schooled a great fighter at their prime. Comparatively speaking Tyson beat Spinks and Holmes, both of whom you can discredit.

Sure he never KO'd a great fighter at their best. He did beat Tony Tucker though who I thought was an impressive, athletically gifted HW. One of his most underrated wins imo



> I always thought his *defense *wasn't as elusive as a lot of people say but he did have a ridiculously versatile offensive arsenal..












:hey


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> :lol: That was a great analogy.


I know a white supremacist who might agree with you when he's up and about.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :55s in, awesome


:lol: What the fuck is Shane doing in this thread?


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> Nelson did not look green did he.
> Gomez, an undefeated featherweight who was coming off a nice winning streak ending with LaPorte. For somebody that was "green" Nelson looked pretty damn good.
> 
> He was extremely poised for a 12-0 pro. but sure he was green too.. Still a great win IMO.
> ...


How did Arguello look green? He may not have been the patient fighter he would become but his tactics against Marcel were much better than if he had been. In fact, Nelson was also more gung-ho against Sanchez than he would be later in his career. And Arguello> Nelson

And he'd just sparked Legra inside a round. So he was more accomplished and experienced than Azumah was. And Marcel had less trouble with Arguello than Sanchez did with Nelson. Okay, Marcel didn't get the stoppage. But he didn't need one either.

And yeah, I know you're not the only one, but I'm asking you because I know you. It goes out to everyone.

Looking at the stylistic matchups, I'm not sure Sanchez would've fared very well against Shibata at all.

I rank Sanchez as the greater featherweight, but in terms of skill on film, Marcel trumps him IMO.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> I know a white supremacist who might agree with you when he's up and about.


Hands :-(


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Hands :-(


Now that's YOU saying that,not me.

:tyson


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> True. I personally don't think it's fair to say Floyd was more skilled than Tyson; they were skilled in different fields. What I will say is that Floyd was more versatile. Tyson was great in the dimension that he mastered though. Instead of potshotting Tyson would go for the kill. I think they are equivalent, in different ways.
> 
> 
> Well, can't you say the same thing against Floyd? The "great" fighters he beat were Marquez, DLH and Mosley, and you can discredit all of those wins, one way or another. I'd argue none of those fighters were at their best, so you could say Floyd never schooled a great fighter at their prime. Comparatively speaking Tyson beat Spinks and Holmes, both of whom you can discredit.
> ...


They were both obviously on a significantly higher level than their opponents for their best prime wins/performances and the ways they went about showing that were very different but I think that Floyds skill set is greater overall than Tyson's, he's just more of a complete package.

I prefer Tyson in the personality stakes if that's any consolation.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Tyson. Man, he should've made my top 10. As should've Ali.

Both are more impressive than Floyd.


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

Have not seen any mention of Ricardo Lopez, the closest to perfect fighter to ever set foot in the square circle!


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

ElKiller said:


> Have not seen any mention of Ricardo Lopez, the closest to perfect fighter to ever set foot in the square circle!


Uh-oh...:lol:

And BTW,I agree with your sentiment greatly.


----------



## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

1) Harry Greb
2) Joe Gans
3) Benny Leonard
4) Bob Fitzsimmons 
5) George Dixon
6) Stanley Ketchel
7) Jim Jefferies
8) Terry McGovern
9) Sam Langford
10) Floyd Mayweather Jr.


----------



## Niftymole (Aug 14, 2014)

*Hell Yeah*

I definitely agree with you on that one man! :cheers


----------



## Capaedia (Jun 6, 2013)

tezel8764 said:


> 1) Harry Greb
> 2) Joe Gans
> 3) Benny Leonard
> 4) Bob Fitzsimmons
> ...


I'd have put Gypsy Jem Mace in over Floyd :-(

Shit list m8


----------



## chibelle (Jun 5, 2013)

Seen as in live TV or live arena (not counting old film or fighters that fought before my puberty)

1. Leonard
2. Duran
3. RJJ
4. Hagler
5. Tyson
6. Pea
7. Floyd
8. Pac
9. Rigo
10. Hearns

RJJ and Tyson is definitely the most athletically gifted boxer I ever saw. But it takes more than athleticism to be a great boxer.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> I know a white supremacist who might agree with you when he's up and about.





turbotime said:


> Hands :-(





PityTheFool said:


> Now that's YOU saying that,not me.
> 
> :tyson


:lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

chibelle said:


> Seen as in live TV or live arena (not counting old film or fighters that fought before my puberty)
> 
> 1. Leonard
> 2. Duran
> ...


Wow


----------



## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Have to laugh whenever I watch something like this:
> (aside from the poor song choice)
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

tezel8764 said:


> 1) Harry Greb
> 2) Joe Gans
> 3) Benny Leonard
> 4) Bob Fitzsimmons
> ...


good list. I'd pick Greb to KO GGG :hey


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

What an ignorant wanker.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> What an ignorant wanker.


don't talk about my boy tezel8764 like that


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> good list. I'd pick Greb to KO GGG :hey


Greb wit dem parries.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Greb wit dem parries.


:yep GOAT


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> :yep GOAT


Don't rate Tunney, Walker, Loughran, The Gibbons' then?

If GGG was wearing 4oz gloves, fighting 10+ times a year, he wouldn't operate the same as he does now.

Of course, you may think the superior era is the one where guys barely fight, and when they do they rarely fight the best.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Don't rate Tunney, Walker, Loughran, The Gibbons' then?
> 
> If GGG was wearing 4oz gloves, fighting 10+ times a year, he wouldn't operate the same as he does now.
> 
> Of course, you may think the superior era is the one where guys barely fight, and when they do they rarely fight the best.


yeah Greb has the best resume ever and is a top 3 or maybe number 1 atg ever, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Please don't try to convince me he's a H2H monster though. If you try that, I'll have to assume you're talking out of your ass


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah Greb has the best resume ever and is a top 3 or maybe number 1 atg ever, yadda, yadda, yadda.
> 
> Please don't try to convince me he's a H2H monster though. If you try that, I'll have to assume you're talking out of your ass


I do like his spins, and parries to get inside, on the real though.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah Greb has the best resume ever and is a top 3 or maybe number 1 atg ever, yadda, yadda, yadda.
> 
> Please don't try to convince me he's a H2H monster though. If you try that, I'll have to assume you're talking out of your ass


I'm asking you; don't you rate those fighters?

Because if you do, you have to admit that he must have been a very formidable fighter.

I never rank Greb head-to-head, but you were fishing, giving it the 'I'm bigger than that' routine, and now I'm calling you out on it. Of course, you're going to try and deflect, because otherwise you'd have to admit you have no clue whatsoever what you're talking about.

As we know from Vic Darchinyan, Carl Froch, Ricardo Mayorga, Vitali Klitschko, Ruslan Provodnikov, Joe Calzaghe, to have ANY measure of success in the last ten years you need to be fundamentally sound.

Oh, no, you don't.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> I do like his spins, and parries to get inside, on the real though.


yeah nobody can fucks with that. I'll have to practice that in the gym


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah nobody can fucks with that. I'll have to practice that in the gym


:yep Being your aggressive self with that kind of technique is deadly.

I can't evem think of the last great parrier :verysad


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> I'm asking you; don't you rate those fighters?
> 
> Because if you do, you have to admit that he must have been a very formidable fighter.
> 
> ...


This is a thread about the 10 BEST fighters you've seen and I see fighters like Mike Tyson here or Roy Jones who don't have the best resume, but are getting ranked higher than many fighters ranked higher than them all time. Harry Greb is on the opposite spectrum. He ranks higher than a lot of these fighters, but we have absolutely no footage of him. And the little footage we do of him looks like complete shit. I don't mean to sound ignorant, but he looks like garbage on the little film we have.

Is he just screwing around, or just a light sparring? Most likely, but even still wtf. If you rank Greb high H2H on your list then like I said you're talking out of your ass. You don't know how good he is. You just read and heard that he's good.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> This is a thread about the 10 BEST fighters you've seen and I see fighters like Mike Tyson here or Roy Jones who don't have the best resume, but are getting ranked higher than many fighters ranked higher than them all time. Harry Greb is on the opposite spectrum. He ranks higher than a lot of these fighters, but we have absolutely no footage of him. And the little footage we do of him looks like complete shit. I don't mean to sound ignorant, but he looks like garbage on the little film we have.
> 
> Is he just screwing around, or just a light sparring? Most likely, but even still wtf. If you rank Greb high H2H on your list then like I said you're talking out of your ass. You don't know how good he is. You just read and heard that he's good.


You've missed my point.

We have footage of his opponents. If we can agree that his opponents looked good on film, we have to admit that he must have been a formidable fighter.

I never judge on whether Greb could do this, or do that. But by the same standards, your sarky comment regarding GGG-Greb shouldn't have been made either. We can't say whether he'd win, but shouldn't rip him and say he'd lose either.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> This is a thread about the 10 BEST fighters you've seen and I see fighters like Mike Tyson here or Roy Jones who don't have the best resume, but are getting ranked higher than many fighters ranked higher than them all time. Harry Greb is on the opposite spectrum. He ranks higher than a lot of these fighters, but we have absolutely no footage of him. And the little footage we do of him looks like complete shit. I don't mean to sound ignorant, but he looks like garbage on the little film we have.
> 
> Is he just screwing around, or just a light sparring? Most likely, but even still wtf. If you rank Greb high H2H on your list then like I said you're talking out of your ass. You don't know how good he is. You just read and heard that he's good.


I will also say; did you see my list? Are there any antiquated stylists on there? Even though I've seen a lot of footage of them.

Canzoneri didn't even make my list!

Roy Jones did.

Of course, I'm just an old timer apologist.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> You've missed my point.
> 
> We have footage of his opponents. If we can agree that his opponents looked good on film, we have to admit that he must have been a formidable fighter.
> 
> I never judge on whether Greb could do this, or do that. But by the same standards, your sarky comment regarding GGG-Greb shouldn't have been made either. We can't say whether he'd win, but shouldn't rip him and say he'd lose either.


I wasn't implying he'd lose to GGG, but I'm more laughing at the fact that somebody would put Greb on their list of "The Best fighters they've seen" which I think he was joking about anyways. I'm also laughing at the fact that somebody would say for sure that he'd beat say Bernard Hopkins or Carlos Monzon.

Styles make fights in boxing and you can't always pick the greater fighter or guy with the better resume to win. You have to look at film of a fighter a lot of times and see them deal with different scenarios in order to predict a matchup and we have none of that with Greb.



Flea Man said:


> I will also say; did you see my list? Are there any antiquated stylists on there? Even though I've seen a lot of footage of them.
> 
> Canzoneri didn't even make my list!
> 
> ...


this thread is 28 pages long and I've read maybe 3 pages of it


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> I wasn't implying he'd lose to GGG, but I'm more laughing at the fact that somebody would put Greb on their list of "The Best fighters they've seen" which I think he was joking about anyways. I'm also laughing at the fact that somebody would say for sure that he'd beat say Bernard Hopkins or Carlos Monzon.
> 
> Styles make fights in boxing and you can't always pick the greater fighter or guy with the better resume to win. You have to look at film of a fighter a lot of times and see them deal with different scenarios in order to predict a matchup and we have none of that with Greb.


Yeah, but we do have footage of Tunney. I would say, although I wouldn't defend it too staunchly, that if Greb can get close to and out-speed Tunney, he can do the same to Monzon. We have footage of Tunney, and to say he isn't a great out-boxer and didn't have great timing would be a ridiculous stance to take.

Monzon is for me the most overrated of the middleweight champions (outside of Ketchel).


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> I wasn't implying he'd lose to GGG, but I'm more laughing at the fact that somebody would put Greb on their list of "The Best fighters they've seen" which I think he was joking about anyways. I'm also laughing at the fact that somebody would say for sure that he'd beat say Bernard Hopkins or Carlos Monzon.
> 
> Styles make fights in boxing and you can't always pick the greater fighter or guy with the better resume to win. You have to look at film of a fighter a lot of times and see them deal with different scenarios in order to predict a matchup and we have none of that with Greb.
> 
> this thread is 28 pages long and I've read maybe 3 pages of it


I just posted mine a couple of pages back. Take a look.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

@bballchump11 @Flea Man

Guys!

:verysad

This is a little e-beef that shouldn't be happening, but does. Consistently. How did it ever start off so wrong? :lol:


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> @bballchump11 @Flea Man
> 
> Guys!
> 
> ...


I don't respect his opinions, but he's a nice enough guy. Nothing against him personally at all.

Do you not agree that we can see that Greb could react all different kinds of styles by having footage of his opponents who were brilliant in their chosen styles? Even if we couldn't predict how a fight would go, to say 'we don't know how Greb would react/adapt etc etc' is ignorant?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> I don't respect his opinions, but he's a nice enough guy. Nothing against him personally at all.
> 
> Do you not agree that we can see that Greb could react all different kinds of styles by having footage of his opponents who were brilliant in their chosen styles? Even if we couldn't predict how a fight would go, to say 'we don't know how Greb would react/adapt etc etc' is ignorant?


There's really no doubt I agree with that in terms of the abilities that would've been required for him to have in order to not only deal, but beat many of them quite convincingly to boot. It's a particular argument I have never gotten myself involved in, though. I've talked to bballchump about Greb off the record before and there's no doubt he does respect him.

I know you don't take it personally, there's just been a bunch of disagreements with you two getting snippy at each other in all sorts of threads. I wonder how many I've actually missed :lol: Your 'Worst Posters' thread in the Lounge confirmed it.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> There's really no doubt I agree with that in terms of the abilities that would've been required for him to have in order to not only deal, but beat many of them quite convincingly to boot. It's a particular argument I have never gotten myself involved in, though. I've talked to bballchump about Greb off the record before and there's no doubt he does respect him.
> 
> I know you don't take it personally, there's just been a bunch of disagreements with you two getting snippy at each other in all sorts of threads. I wonder how many I've actually missed :lol: Your 'Worst Posters' thread in the Lounge confirmed it.


He's certainly a decent poster. I just do not respect his opinions, he operates on bias.

I used to be the same. I picked Hagler to KO Greb with the first jab he landed at one point. Then I pulled my head out of my ass.


----------



## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> What an ignorant wanker.


Go back to Bangkok.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tezel8764 said:


> Go back to Bangkok.


What's it gotta' do with you? Wasn't even talking to you.


----------



## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

:rofl Just fuckin around Flea.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Tezel ain't ever serious.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tezel8764 said:


> :rofl Just fuckin around Flea.


Sorry. Always get the feeling you troll me because you've got a problem with me :lol:


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Too much tension in this thread...

Vasiliy Hi-Tech Lomachenko





Everybody else has a lowly 2nd-10th place.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

I've seen a lot of posts in here but no actual lists. Or, at least, nothing that resemblences a list more than it does the end result of someone unzipping their trousers, taking a dump on the keyboard and posting it.

When one of you actually posts something that contains some semblence of intelligence then, if you're lucky, I might consider telling you why it's wrong and how much of a fuck up you are.

Anyway, here's my list:

1. Valuev
2. Povetkin
3. Tsyzu
4. Korobov
5. Boystov
6. Beterbiev
7. Lebedev
8. Selimov
9. Kovalev
10. Pirog

Don't bother replying. You're wrong and I've just put every member of the forum on ignore.


----------



## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Tezel ain't ever serious.


Bro I remember my battles with Klittards over at ESB :lol:, at the end realized I wasted hours on end arguing with dudes who were never gonna change their mind on their Ali vs Klitschko, Klitschko vs Lewis threads, Heavyweight Blog etc. There was a poster that suggested that Ali only fought Crusierweights and that Klitschko was superior due to his opponents average weight was higher than Ali's opposition :rofl.

Now I just lay back and chillax, read some RBR threads, some Historic Threads and post from time to time that way I don't get stressed out. :smoke


----------



## TSOL (Dec 15, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> I've seen a lot of posts in here but no actual lists. Or, at least, nothing that resemblences a list more than it does the end result of someone unzipping their trousers, taking a dump on the keyboard and posting it.
> 
> When one of you actually posts something that contains some semblence of intelligence then, if you're lucky, I might consider telling you why it's wrong and how much of a fuck up you are.
> 
> ...


good list, should replace boystov with ibragimov though


----------



## chibelle (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Wow


thanks


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Albert Fucking Selimov


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> There's really no doubt I agree with that in terms of the abilities that would've been required for him to have in order to not only deal, but beat many of them quite convincingly to boot. It's a particular argument I have never gotten myself involved in, though. I've talked to bballchump about Greb off the record before and there's no doubt he does respect him.
> 
> I know you don't take it personally, there's just been a bunch of disagreements with you two getting snippy at each other in all sorts of threads. I wonder how many I've actually missed :lol: *Your 'Worst Posters*' thread in the Lounge confirmed it.


what thread is this?


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Sorry. Always get the feeling you troll me because you've got a problem with me :lol:


see I knew he was playing around the whole time and I came and posted this



bballchump11 said:


> good list. I'd pick Greb to KO GGG :hey


as a joke. Obviously he doesn't think Greb is the best fighter he's ever seen since that's the only footage he's seen of him. I wasn't indicating that he'd lose or anything from my sarcasm. But you do what you always do, come in and act all snobbish and try to belittle other's opinions when really our opinions aren't far off on this subject. 
You can go around thinking you're just this great historian and glorify fighters who you never seen fight while I'll concentrate on the technical side of boxing.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Greb is probably the best fighter any of us have NEVER seen. :lol:


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

I kinda' skimmed through this thread.

Surprised to not see Gene Tunney on anyone's list. - Not even in the honorable mentions?

The guy beat Dempsey twice (OK, there was that long count, but he still outboxed Dempsey) and he beat Harry Greb 3X. (or was it 4X?) He also KO'd Tommy Gibbons, who retired at 57 (48) -4

Tunney had a career record of 65 (48) -1.

OK, it looks like he also fought a lot of cans, but so did everyone back then. He looks REALLY good in the Dempsey fight, like a matador fighting a rabbid bull from hell.

The dude deserves a little respect, I think.


----------



## KO KIDD (ESB EX-Patriot) (Jun 3, 2013)

Antonio Tarver

Ricardo Mayorga

Edison Miranda

Humberto Soto

Oneil Bell

Travis Walker

Juan Diaz


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Greb is probably the best fighter any of us have NEVER seen. :lol:


Unless you haven't seen Kalule's dark side.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> what thread is this?


http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...osters-in-the-World-Boxing-and-British-forums


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...osters-in-the-World-Boxing-and-British-forums


:yep it's interesting when you can be labeled as one of the best posters and worst posters in different threads. I'm as polarizing as the Yankees


----------



## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...osters-in-the-World-Boxing-and-British-forums


That was a snitch thread man, all the rats came out.


----------



## saul_ir34 (Jun 8, 2013)

I find it funny some of you are mentioning fighters you were definitely not alive to actively follow. Meaning you are basically riding the bangwagon.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

saul_ir34 said:


> I find it funny some of you are mentioning fighters you were definitely not alive to actively follow. Meaning you are basically riding the bangwagon.


I took it to mean, fighters you have seen film of.. If we are talking strictly just watching LIVE then all of our lists would be different.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> see I knew he was playing around the whole time and I came and posted this
> 
> as a joke. Obviously he doesn't think Greb is the best fighter he's ever seen since that's the only footage he's seen of him. I wasn't indicating that he'd lose or anything from my sarcasm. But you do what you always do, come in and act all snobbish and try to belittle other's opinions when really our opinions aren't far off on this subject.
> You can go around thinking you're just this great historian and glorify fighters who you never seen fight while I'll concentrate on the technical side of boxing.
> ...


What about all the fighters and fights I've seen fight that hardly anyone else has seen?

I have conceded many times I don't know that much. But I have seen you make claims for certain fighters being greater than others when you have no points of reference.

No worries, I know who I'd rather be.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> I kinda' skimmed through this thread.
> 
> Surprised to not see Gene Tunney on anyone's list. - Not even in the honorable mentions?
> 
> ...


He probably only beat Greb once.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> I kinda' skimmed through this thread.
> 
> Surprised to not see Gene Tunney on anyone's list. - Not even in the honorable mentions?
> 
> ...


What Flea said.
Even boxrec says it:
The SD "loss"
"The decision in Tunney's favor was hotly disputed. Regis Welsh of the Pittsburgh Post thought that Greb was robbed as did various other experts, including Commissioner William Muldoon, who called the verdict "unjustifiable". 19 of 23 newspapermen at ringside believed Greb should not have left the ring without his crown. 15 voted for Greb, 4 for Tunney and 4 voted for a draw. Greb was the aggressor and Tunney the counterpuncher. Greb was made to observe the rules closely and this undoubtedly curbed his usual "free-wheeling" style."

The "draw"
"Two out of three Cleveland papers scored it for Greb (the other called it a draw).Stuart M. Bell from Cleveland Plain Dealer scored for Greb 6-3-1, the Massilon(Ohio)Evening Independent scored it for Greb;
Lima News (AP) called it a win for Greb, but reported that many ringsiders thought Tunney had the edge; Ray Coll in Pittsburgh Gazette-Times scored it a draw;
Zanesville Signal (INS wire) gave edge to Greb 5-4-1; Wisconsin Rapids Daily Tribune/Milwaukee Journal (United News wire) said newspapermen gave Greb "all but the tenth round"; Jim Jab from Pittsburg Press scored for Greb 7-3."

The other 2 were in favour of Tunney.
So Tunney is 2-3 against Greb

He beat a fat old Dempsey.
Fatboy Willie Meehan also has 2 wins over Dempsey. (Their last fight was just 1 year before the Willard fight, and Dempsey lost)


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

dyna said:


> What Flea said.
> Even boxrec says it:
> The SD "loss"
> "The decision in Tunney's favor was hotly disputed. Regis Welsh of the Pittsburgh Post thought that Greb was robbed as did various other experts, including Commissioner William Muldoon, who called the verdict "unjustifiable". 19 of 23 newspapermen at ringside believed Greb should not have left the ring without his crown. 15 voted for Greb, 4 for Tunney and 4 voted for a draw. Greb was the aggressor and Tunney the counterpuncher. Greb was made to observe the rules closely and this undoubtedly curbed his usual "free-wheeling" style."
> ...


 @Cableaddict notes that Tunney fought a lot of cans, but everyone did in those days.

That is true to an extent, but the very best fought a LOT of the very best, and that is why Tunney lags behind.

He does look very good on film though. So does Tommy Gibbons.

Carpentier does not :lol:


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> *it's interesting when you can be labeled as one of the best posters and worst posters in different threads.* I'm as polarizing as the Yankees


Happens to me all the time. :lol:

- Probably for good reason. :sad5


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

dyna said:


> What Flea said.
> Even boxrec says it:
> The SD "loss"
> "The decision in Tunney's favor was hotly disputed. Regis Welsh of the Pittsburgh Post thought that Greb was robbed as did various other experts, including Commissioner William Muldoon, who called the verdict "unjustifiable". 19 of 23 newspapermen at ringside believed Greb should not have left the ring without his crown. 15 voted for Greb, 4 for Tunney and 4 voted for a draw. Greb was the aggressor and Tunney the counterpuncher. Greb was made to observe the rules closely and this undoubtedly curbed his usual "free-wheeling" style."
> ...


I never knew all this.

- But I disagree about the Dempsey win. I'm too lazy to check, but IIRC Dempsey was only in his early 30's at the time. - And again, Tunney looks really, REALLY good in the footage.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> I never knew all this.
> 
> - But I disagree about the Dempsey win. I'm too lazy to check, but IIRC Dempsey was only in his early 30's at the time. - And again, Tunney looks really, REALLY good in the footage.


Dempsey had been inactive before the first bout (three years out living the good life) He came back after that and beat Sharkey (didn't look great but although the finish was controversial he showed he could still bang) but had clearly lost a step. I think Dempsey is overrated anyway.

There are issues about Gibbons as well; seems Tunney waited until he was pretty much done before agreeing to face him.
@Klompton knows all about it.


----------



## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> I never knew all this.
> 
> - But I disagree about the Dempsey win. I'm too lazy to check, but IIRC Dempsey was only in his early 30's at the time. - And again, Tunney looks really, REALLY good in the footage.


Dempsey wasn't hugely out of shape, but was coming back after being off for a while. Wasn't the same Dempsey.

I still believe Tunney could have beat him prime for prime though, I rate Tunney pretty highly.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Theron said:


> Dempsey wasn't hugely out of shape, but was coming back after being off for a while. Wasn't the same Dempsey.
> 
> *I still believe Tunney could have beat him prime for prime though*, I rate Tunney pretty highly.


Same as. Dempsey struggled with smaller, faster fighters.

Put him in with a lummox and he looked like a destroyer.


----------



## ChampionsForever (Jun 5, 2013)

The best prime fighter I've seen in the last 10 years is Pac. The run he went on was unreal, you DO NOT do that to guys like Oscar (old or not) Hatton AND Cotto. He destroyed them.


----------



## ChampionsForever (Jun 5, 2013)

People naming James Toney over Pac? how the fuck do you work that one out?


----------

