# Floyd Mayweather vs Thomas Hearns



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Being posted before but I wonder what the consensus is now....


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

Hearns is the worst matchup for Floyd if he beats Hearns he would probbaly beat about anyone


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## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

PivotPunch said:


> Hearns is the worst matchup for Floyd


Aye, I'd be hard pressed to think of a worse one. :lol: But RJJ may just be trying something here...I don't know, with him. He's very subtle...


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Boxed Ears said:


> Aye, I'd be hard pressed to think of a worse one. :lol: But RJJ may just be trying something here...I don't know, with him. He's very subtle...


I'm as subtle as a rusty pipe wrench :lol:


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## Abraham (May 9, 2013)

Mayweather has shown the ability to adapt and deal with every style. I found it funny that people think a Hearns win over him is automatic. I can't call it, but one thing I know for sure is, Mayweather wouldn't make it easy for Hearns.


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## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

rjjfan said:


> I'm as subtle as a rusty pipe wrench :lol:


:lol::lol::lol:


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Hearns by KO is fucking ludicrous.


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## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

This is the worst style match up for floyd. Winky wright would be a bad one too. 

Floyd is an ATG though. Just because hearns and SRL would beat him at 147 doesnt mean he isnt an ATG, those guys are naturally much bigger. Hearns knocked out a cruiserweight for christ sake.


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## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

Abraham said:


> Mayweather has shown the ability to adapt and deal with every style. I found it funny that people think a Hearns win over him is automatic. I can't call it, but one thing I know for sure is, Mayweather wouldn't make it easy for Hearns.


A KO I think is very very unlikely. But a hearns UD I am very confident of, hearns is THE style I would pick to beat floyd. A good jab and speed can win rounds with floyd. Floyd would still be very much in the fight, so I partially agree with you that people shouldnt act like hearns would destroy him.


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## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

Just a question but why do people think Hearns would be a tougher fight for Mayweather than Leonard or Duran would be?


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Abraham said:


> Mayweather has shown the ability to adapt and deal with every style. I found it funny that people think a Hearns win over him is automatic. I can't call it, but one thing I know for sure is, Mayweather wouldn't make it easy for Hearns.


:deal

The Benitez-Hearns fight from what I recall, to me was 10 rounds to 5. But I'll be watching it again later on. Mayweather I believe is smart enough to adjust and win extra rounds.


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## thesandman (Jun 4, 2013)

Flash Jab said:


> Just a question but why do people think Hearns would be a tougher fight for Mayweather than Leonard or Duran would be?


He was 6'1" tall with a 78" reach. 
Out boxed ray Leonard for the best part of 15 rounds. 
Hit like a mule with either hand.

He won a title at 175 before winning at 160. Knocking the guy (Andries) down a shitload of times.

It's just really hard to see how Floyd would take this. 
Floyd is probably more skilled and a bit quicker. But this is a fight where the other guy has a lot of advantages. And unlike most of Floyd's opponents is more than good enough to take advantage of them.


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## thesandman (Jun 4, 2013)

The other consideration is Floyd is only getting to 147 and 154 at the end of his career. 

Floyd's absolute best is probably below that.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Flash Jab said:


> Just a question but why do people think Hearns would be a tougher fight for Mayweather than Leonard or Duran would be?


I suspect it has something to do with Tommy's height and long jab,and if there's one punch that Floyd occasionally gets caught with and has an aversion to,it's the right hand behind the jab. @elterrible hit the nail on the head though.If Floyd loses fantasy match ups at 147 to Tommy and Ray,it doesn't mean he's not an ATG because he most definitely is and this sport will be all the poorer when he leaves.
Floyd won't be poor though,and that's a comforting thought when I get in my 8 year old car every day.


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## From Russia (Jun 5, 2013)

Tommy is my fucking favorite boxer. It was impossible to outbox Tommy, you can only pressure and KO him. Yeah, his chin wasnt ATG, but i doubt that Mayweather have the power of SRL or Hagler to KO him. Hearns is the worst nightmare for Floyd.


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## kf3 (Jul 17, 2012)

worst possible matchup for mayweather below mw.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

I think prime McCallum would give Floyd a great deal to think about at 154.


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## Blanco (Aug 29, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> I think prime McCallum would give Floyd a great deal to think about at 154.


McCallum was just too big/skilled for Money, I think putting Money in fantasy matches against the ATG's at 154 and above isn't fair.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Blanco said:


> McCallum was just too big/skilled for Money, I think putting Money in fantasy matches against the ATG's at 154 and above isn't fair.


If you've seen any of my posts this week mate, you'll see that I think all this talk of 160 is unfair and amounts to nothing more than a witch hunt to try and come up with a way to see Floyd beaten.
My reference to McCallum was only a suggestion since people keep saying Hearns is the ultimate nightmare for Floyd.


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## Blanco (Aug 29, 2012)

@PityTheFool Oh okay gotcha.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Blanco said:


> @PityTheFool Oh okay gotcha.


All good here buddy.


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

he aint winning this one, Hearns UD.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

for someone as such a big fan of RJJ, you sure do have it in for Mayweather. :verysad


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## TBooze (Dec 9, 2012)

At 154 I do not see Lil Floyd winning. Hearns may blast him out with the right if Mayweather's chin is not up to the job (an intangible, that no one really knows yet), but even if Pretty Boy goes 12, I think Hearns is as good a boxer as we have seen in the last 30 years. Even when seven/eight years and 20lbs past his pomp, he could still outbox someone as good a boxer as unbeaten Virgil Hill.

I think Mayweather goes the distance, but I cannot see him picking up more than four rounds.


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Hearns UD.

If you ain't called sugar you ain't beating Tommy at 147


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Luf said:


> Hearns UD.
> 
> If you ain't called sugar you ain't beating Tommy at 147


:deal

I'd love to have seen Jose Napoles with Tommy though.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

..50:50 fight.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Hearns assassinates Floyd, lets just be honest Floyd has no shot whatsoever



Blanco said:


> McCallum was just too big/skilled for Money, I think putting Money in fantasy matches against the ATG's at 154 and above isn't fair.


yet somehow him fighting 154 pounders at catchweights is supposed to be fair.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

rjjfan said:


> :deal
> 
> I'd love to have seen Jose Napoles with Tommy though.


I can't see Napoles winning against Hearns.


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## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

Bahahahahahah, LMAO, LOLZ @ the ppl that picked Money!!


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

thesandman said:


> He was 6'1" tall with a 78" reach.
> Out boxed ray Leonard for the best part of 15 rounds.
> Hit like a mule with either hand.
> 
> ...


Very well stated. Aside from Hearns' ridiculous physical advantages, he was a hell of a boxer too.


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## Abraham (May 9, 2013)

Jesus Christ...98% of fighters would have been at least grazed by that last punch Canelo threw.


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## TBooze (Dec 9, 2012)

Abraham said:


> Jesus Christ...98% of fighters would have been at least grazed by that last punch Canelo threw.


Tommy is not just in the top 2% of fighters, but the top .00002%... And I am still probably doing him an injustice!


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## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

Abraham said:


> Jesus Christ...98% of fighters would have been at least grazed by that last punch Canelo threw.


I could of got out of the way of that... All Floyd did was lean against the ropes!


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## TBooze (Dec 9, 2012)

Slugger3000 said:


> I could of got out of the way of that... All Floyd did was lean against the ropes!


Well yeah, I too could duck that punch, as like me you would be on the way down from the initial jab!


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## Abraham (May 9, 2013)

TBooze said:


> Well yeah, I too could duck that punch, as like me you would be on the way down from the initial jab!


:lol:


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## Pimp C (Jun 3, 2013)

Hearns is a stylistic nightmare for PBF. Hearns by UD or KO.:deal


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## JoKeR (Jun 5, 2013)

Floyds ability to make adjustments would give him more than just a shot of beating anybody south of 147. He would surprise a ton of people on this forum if these fantasy fights ever took place.

I agree Hearns is a tough one however. His long loooong jab, amazing power, skill set and speed would without question trouble Floyd. It would be interesting to see how Floyd would adapt.


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## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Hearns by KO is fucking ludicrous.


Had Hearns not fought Duran, it's possible we'd say about a proposed match that it's crazy to say Hearns knocks Duran out. But, regardless, of course great fighters should not be written off against other greats. But I don't know how Floyd matches up worse with another great in this weight range. As Sand said, Floyd's probably best at 130 and we're proposing what may be simply an unfair match in Hearns, matching size and skill. It's an ATG who was at his best at 154 and not much under his best at 147, arguably. Tommy's weaknesses have simply not shown to be vulnerable with Mayweather's strengths, but Mayweather's considerably few weakness look to be vulnerable to Tommy's strengths, I'd say.


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## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Hearns, if for nothing other than at their absolute lightest championship form he was 17 pounds heavier than him. He has so much natural size on Floyd. As for styles, it would be very difficult to outbox Hearns. In his prime the best option was to try and go through him, and that was also a bit of a nightmare. Hearns for me.


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## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

rjjfan said:


> :deal
> 
> I'd love to have seen Jose Napoles with Tommy though.


I just said that it would be very difficult to outbox Tommy in his prime but then you went and threw out the name of a man who would be in contention for the job.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

As Boxed Ears alluded to before, I guess the main purpose of this thread is to show that when opinions regarding Floyd as The Bestest Ever begins to surface, its impossible to take them seriously when there are monsters like Hearns, Leonard, Napoles, Duran, not to mention SRR. Floyd is great, an ATG, but TBE?? Really??


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## NoNeck (Jun 7, 2013)

It seems like the consensus is now Hearns by decision. It used to be a dismissive Hearns KTFO PBF.


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## Royal-T-Bag (Jun 5, 2013)

Hearns is my all time favorite. Hearns is a horrible style match up for him, Mayweather will go down as a greater fighter but Hearns was just too big for him and would KO him. The fact that we match Floyd, an ATG at super featherweight with an ATG who went up to cruiserweight with success just shows his greatness.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Boxed Ears said:


> Had Hearns not fought Duran, it's possible we'd say about a proposed match that it's crazy to say Hearns knocks Duran out. But, regardless, of course great fighters should not be written off against other greats. But I don't know how Floyd matches up worse with another great in this weight range. As Sand said, Floyd's probably best at 130 and we're proposing what may be simply an unfair match in Hearns, matching size and skill. It's an ATG who was at his best at 154 and not much under his best at 147, arguably. Tommy's weaknesses have simply not shown to be vulnerable with Mayweather's strengths, but Mayweather's considerably few weakness look to be vulnerable to Tommy's strengths, I'd say.


'vulnerable with Mayweather's strengths' - his main strength is in his boxing brain, his ability to figure out his opponent, this can interrupt Hearns' natural plan to outbox Mayweather. Mayweather is much better at bringing the fight down to his level, than Benitez. After this, his second main strength is in his defensive abilities.

People site the Duran fight as the reason, but I site the Benitez fight. Duran was already past prime, went in there with the wrong strategy and got KO'd against a rangey fighter with great boxing skills and power. Mayweather is better defensively IMO, and the fault Benitez made was that he didn't actually do enough to win rounds, that was his real problem during the fight. Mayweather marries offensive strategy and defense better than Benitez, and is mentally the strongest in the ring, ever. Benitez is a mental midget who never trained enough, so doesn't know enough about operating on higher, boat burning levels - which is where Mayweather will always have the edge.

I think it's extremely naive to think that Mayweather would get knocked out by Tommy Hearns.

I guess for me it's a 50:50 fight.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Royal-T-Bag said:


> Hearns is my all time favorite. Hearns is a horrible style match up for him, Mayweather will go down as a greater fighter but Hearns was just too big for him and would KO him. *The fact that we match Floyd, an ATG at super featherweight with an ATG who went up to cruiserweight with success just shows his greatness.*


:deal


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## thesandman (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> 'vulnerable with Mayweather's strengths' - his main strength is in his boxing brain, his ability to figure out his opponent, this can interrupt Hearns' natural plan to outbox Mayweather. Mayweather is much better at bringing the fight down to his level, than Benitez. After this, his second main strength is in his defensive abilities.
> 
> People site the Duran fight as the reason, but I site the Benitez fight. Duran was already past prime, went in there with the wrong strategy and got KO'd against a rangey fighter with great boxing skills and power. Mayweather is better defensively IMO, and the fault Benitez made was that he didn't actually do enough to win rounds, that was his real problem during the fight. Mayweather marries offensive strategy and defense better than Benitez, and is mentally the strongest in the ring, ever. Benitez is a mental midget who never trained enough, so doesn't know enough about operating on higher, boat burning levels - which is where Mayweather will always have the edge.
> 
> ...


A 50/50 fight how exactly?
Other than saying "Floyd has a great brain", you've stated not a single way Floyd can win this fight.

How do you know Hearns plan would be to outbox Mayweather? Maybe his plan would be to KTFO Mayweather, based on the fact that despite Hearns rep as having a shaky chin - it was overstated. Hagler tagged him in a barnburner. Leonard stopped him in the 14th. Barkley was a middleweight\LHW, and Hearns wasn't at his best.

Do you think Floyd could stop Hearns? I don't. 
Do you think he could outbox him, if SRL couldn't?

Perhaps Benitez didn't do enough to win rounds, because if you go too aggressive against Hearns, you generally end up waking up wondering when the fight is about to start.

I don't think it's naive to believe Floyd gets KO'd against Hearns. If there's a person in history I'd pick to KO any fighter at 147, it's Hearns.

Mayweather is a bloody good fighter. I think he's no easy fight for anybody, at any weight he's fought at. I just think he has too much to overcome here.


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## thesandman (Jun 4, 2013)

NoNeck said:


> It seems like the consensus is now Hearns by decision. It used to be a dismissive Hearns KTFO PBF.


Hearns by ridiculously easy KO.
Lock it in.


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## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

thesandman said:


> A 50/50 fight how exactly?
> Other than saying "Floyd has a great brain", you've stated not a single way Floyd can win this fight.
> 
> How do you know Hearns plan would be to outbox Mayweather? Maybe his plan would be to KTFO Mayweather, based on the fact that despite Hearns rep as having a shaky chin - it was overstated. Hagler tagged him in a barnburner. Leonard stopped him in the 14th. Barkley was a middleweight\LHW, and Hearns wasn't at his best.
> ...


Mhmm.



The Undefeated Gaul said:


> 'vulnerable with Mayweather's strengths' - his main strength is in his boxing brain, his ability to figure out his opponent, this can interrupt Hearns' natural plan to outbox Mayweather. Mayweather is much better at bringing the fight down to his level, than Benitez. After this, his second main strength is in his defensive abilities.
> 
> People site the Duran fight as the reason, but I site the Benitez fight. Duran was already past prime, went in there with the wrong strategy and got KO'd against a rangey fighter with great boxing skills and power. Mayweather is better defensively IMO, and the fault Benitez made was that he didn't actually do enough to win rounds, that was his real problem during the fight. Mayweather marries offensive strategy and defense better than Benitez, and is mentally the strongest in the ring, ever. Benitez is a mental midget who never trained enough, so doesn't know enough about operating on higher, boat burning levels - which is where Mayweather will always have the edge.
> 
> ...


With respect, Gaul, I think it's extremely naive to think it's "ludicrous" that Mayweather could get knocked out by Tommy Hearns. But I support your right to your opinion, my brother. :deal


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Who would be the nearest opponent Fliyd has faced that you could say presented similar problems that Tommy would?

Again, I hate these threads where as a Floyd fan,I need to go against him in a way,but I don't think it's a 2 round blowout.
The problem for Floyd is that one of the few punches he has trouble with is a solid right behind an accurate jab, and it's testament to his brilliance that he gets caught with it do rarely...
But this is Tommy Fuckin Hearns man.What guy can you think of at WW/JMW that has a better,more powerful and accurate 1-2.
I can't see how Floyd holds him off for 12 rounds,but he has a great chin,although again,it's *Tommy Hearns!*
But I still maintain it's no quick blowout.Floyd would not disgrace himself.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Who would be the nearest opponent Fliyd has faced that you could say presented similar problems that Tommy would?
> 
> Again, I hate these threads where as a Floyd fan,I need to go against him in a way,but I don't think it's a 2 round blowout.
> The problem for Floyd is that one of the few punches he has trouble with is a solid right behind an accurate jab, and it's testament to his brilliance that he gets caught with it do rarely...
> ...


Hearns has been known to come out strong and Floyd is sensitive to feints early. I think a 2 round blowout is very possible (though I can also see a more drawn out affair.)


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

That double jab to the body followed by the right is just sick!!!


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## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

Hearns UD. Mayweather is not someone to take lightly though.

On another note, the mentions of McCallum at 154, I'd pick McCallum to stop Hearns or certainly outpoint him at 154.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Wouldn't be surprised if Hearns Duran'd him. I don't know how Floyd is going to get close enough to land anything without taking something in return. Hearns was excellent at controlling distance, had very fast hands and his power was insane at Welter. The only way to beat Hearns is to fight him like Leonard or Hagler or KO him. I don't see Floyd abandoning what he's done for so long and I don't see him taking him out.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Hoshi said:


> Hearns UD. Mayweather is not someone to take lightly though.
> 
> On another note, the mentions of McCallum at 154, I'd pick McCallum to stop Hearns or certainly outpoint him at 154.


I think he'd stop him, with his chin and great body attack he'd eventually walk him down. This in spite of the fact Hearns looked really good against him in sparring.


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## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

MadcapMaxie said:


> I think he'd stop him, with his chin and great body attack he'd eventually walk him down. This in spite of the fact Hearns looked really good against him in sparring.


I agree pal. Saw that sparring vid from the Kronk on YouTube, Toney vs McClellan was on it too. Brilliant.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Hoshi said:


> I agree pal. Saw that sparring vid from the Kronk on YouTube, Toney vs McClellan was on it too. Brilliant.


Yeah, Toney-G Man got a bit heated, Gerald started really throwing bombs but watching you could see Toney was stylistic kryptonite for McClellan. Would've taken him to school if they fought.


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## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Yeah, Toney-G Man got a bit heated, Gerald started really throwing bombs but watching you could see Toney was stylistic kryptonite for McClellan. Would've taken him to school if they fought.


Absolutely, not what to do against Toney. Would have been very one sided imo.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

thesandman said:


> A 50/50 fight how exactly?
> Other than saying "Floyd has a great brain", you've stated not a single way Floyd can win this fight.
> 
> How do you know Hearns plan would be to outbox Mayweather? Maybe his plan would be to KTFO Mayweather, based on the fact that despite Hearns rep as having a shaky chin - it was overstated. Hagler tagged him in a barnburner. Leonard stopped him in the 14th. Barkley was a middleweight\LHW, and Hearns wasn't at his best.
> ...


Well, my belief is firmly set that Mayweather can adapt to and neutralise fighters and do what's necessary to win, so Mayweather will create a construct where his opponents will become predictable. I first realised this in 07' but thought I was just trying to connect imaginary dots. 
Mayweather has a good chin, defensively he's harder to hit than a fat old Duran who uses the wrong strategy. People need to stop bringing Duran into this. Mayweather would be able to deal with his most lethal punches and land sneaky blows to counter. For the first three rounds I highly doubt Mayweather will engage. Hearns will land the onslaught and Mayweather will be straight up on the defense, figuring Hearns out.

Hearns going to KFTO Floyd early just means Floyd will KTFO Hearns later in the fight.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Floyd doesn't have the range to outbox Hearns and he sure as hell can't outbrawl him.
Actually I don't think anybody would ever outbox Hearns at 147, you had to force a fight and for that you will get Hearns his best punches coming at you.

Stylistically an extremely shitty match up for Floyd thanks to Hearns his range, control of range, speed and power. 160 and south from 160 this is probably the hardest match up for Floyd.(Apart from Roy Jones who would murder Floyd)

It's ludicrous to write Floyd off against (almost) any man south from 154 but in the case of Hearns-Floyd I can only see one winner.


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## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

Mal said:


> That double jab to the body followed by the right is just sick!!!


My favourite ko ever. It's perfect.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Over 12 rounds, can even be SRR and Leonard really be favoured over Hearns?
Leonard already lost (imo) to Hearns over 12 but that was at 160 though. Over 12 rounds primevprime he would have to up the pace faster sooner but that would also mean he'd receive much more flak. Over 15 rounds he had much more time to wait as his stamina was superior but over 12 rounds the stamina advantage would be a lot smaller.

With SRR I think it's either he gets outboxes or realizes he's being outboxed and forces Hearns in a war where SRR has the advantages.


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## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

Royal-T-Bag said:


> Hearns is my all time favorite. Hearns is a horrible style match up for him, _*Mayweather will go down as a greater fighter*_ but Hearns was just too big for him and would KO him. The fact that we match Floyd, an ATG at super featherweight with an ATG who went up to cruiserweight with success just shows his greatness.


 :rofl I swear when I read this a minute ago I burst out laughing, no disrespect to Floyd but he is not going to surpass Tommy`s achievements in my eyes based on what he has accomplished so far in his career. Floyd being unbeaten does not make him the greater fighter between the two, and Tommy`s losses to two bonafide legends of the ring in Ray Leonard and Marvin Hagler actually make me hold him in higher esteem, sometimes there is greater glory to be gained from a brave defeat than a one-sided victory. Add in his resume filled with quality opponents of a higher caliber ranging from welterweight all the way up to light-heavyweight and it is a no contest, I cannot fathom how anyone can dispute this.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Royal-T-Bag said:


> Mayweather will go down as a greater


absoultely not. Hearns' beat the likes of Duran, Cuevas, Hill, and Benitez, those wins kind of trump anything Floyd has done


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> :rofl I swear when I read this a minute ago I burst out laughing, no disrespect to Floyd but he is not going to surpass Tommy`s achievements in my eyes based on what he has accomplished so far in his career. Floyd being unbeaten does not make him the greater fighter between the two, and Tommy`s losses to two bonafide legends of the ring in Ray Leonard and Marvin Hagler actually make me hold him in higher esteem, sometimes there is greater glory to be gained from a brave defeat than a one-sided victory. Add in his resume filled with quality opponents of a higher caliber ranging from welterweight all the way up to light-heavyweight and it is a no contest, I cannot fathom how anyone can dispute this.


Imo, Hearns is still a bit above the ATG rankings compared to Floyd but it's close.
Floyd can retire as the greater fighter but as of now he still needs a few good wins.


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## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

dyna said:


> Imo, Hearns is still a bit above the ATG rankings compared to Floyd but it's close.
> Floyd can retire as the greater fighter but as of now he still needs a few good wins.


 I`m confused, you said that Hearns is above him in the ATG rankings yet Floyd is the greater fighter? Seems like a contradiction to me, perhaps you should elaborate.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> I`m confused, you said that Hearns is above him in the ATG rankings yet Floyd is the greater fighter?


Never said that.
I said Floyd can retire as the greater fighter provided he gets a few extra quality wins.

Also I'm not Royal T-bag, and he didn't say Floyd is greater already (though it can be implied)
He probably expects Floyd to rack up enough quality wins to be considered greater


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## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

dyna said:


> Never said that.
> I said Floyd can retire as the greater fighter provided he gets a few extra quality wins.
> 
> Also I'm not Royal T-bag, and he didn't say Floyd is greater already (though it can be implied)
> He probably expects Floyd to rack up enough quality wins to be considered greater


I see. Well to each his own but I really don`t see anyone on the boxing horizon opponent wise currently that could potentially propel Floyd over Tommy on the all-time rankings list, the talent pool is simply not deep enough in terms of who could actually give him a run for his money. Sadly this while not at all his fault will be the main factor that keeps him lower on the totem pole in the historical rankings.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

So I guess Floyd being TBE is laid to rest?


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## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

dyna said:


> Over 12 rounds, can even be SRR and Leonard really be favoured over Hearns?
> Leonard already lost (imo) to Hearns over 12 but that was at 160 though. Over 12 rounds primevprime he would have to up the pace faster sooner but that would also mean he'd receive much more flak. Over 15 rounds he had much more time to wait as his stamina was superior but over 12 rounds the stamina advantage would be a lot smaller.
> 
> With SRR I think it's either he gets outboxes or realizes he's being outboxed and forces Hearns in a war where SRR has the advantages.


I think Hearns would beat both Rays over 12 rounds man. Floyd is an ex featherweight it's no surprise that he'd lose to one of the greatest welterweights ever.


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## Marcus Browne (Jun 6, 2013)

Floyd loses in the same style Forrest would have stopped him!


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## Royal-T-Bag (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> absoultely not. Hearns' beat the likes of Duran, Cuevas, Hill, and Benitez, those wins kind of trump anything Floyd has done


take out a Duran who was really never shit all at 154 and they're equal on resume. DLH better than Cuevas, Castillo better than Hill, Canelo about equal to Hill but likely to be better when his career is done, Mosley by a landslide UD equal to MD over Benitez. Add in Corrales, Hatton, Hernandez, Cotto and the overall body of work of Mayweather actualy looks equal. the no losses and dominant fashion he's won nearly every fight in will gain him favor over time as well again whether or not you agree with it doesn't matter.

tommy is my favorite fighter of all time and he would KO Mayweather H2H but you gotta realize history will reflect a lot better on mayweather especially if guys like Canelo, Guerrero, Ortiz go on to grab more titles and achieve future success. You already got respectable pundits and fighters making outlandish claims about Mayweather being top 3 ever (ridiculous to me by the way, he's nowhere near top 3 not even top 10 for that matter), Tommy never got that kind of praise in his prime or at the end of his career. 10 years from now you will see Mayweather in the top 10 ATG lists of every publication whether or not you agree with it that's what's going to happen. Common consesus will be against you in ranking Mayweather ahead of Tommy.


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## Royal-T-Bag (Jun 5, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> :rofl I swear when I read this a minute ago I burst out laughing, no disrespect to Floyd but he is not going to surpass Tommy`s achievements in my eyes based on what he has accomplished so far in his career. Floyd being unbeaten does not make him the greater fighter between the two, and Tommy`s losses to two bonafide legends of the ring in Ray Leonard and Marvin Hagler actually make me hold him in higher esteem, sometimes there is greater glory to be gained from a brave defeat than a one-sided victory. Add in his resume filled with quality opponents of a higher caliber ranging from welterweight all the way up to light-heavyweight and it is a no contest, I cannot fathom how anyone can dispute this.


 see my post above this one for explanation....whether you agree or not doesn't change the fact that he's already regarded higher by many and that 10 years of marinating on his career will see him in the top 10 ATG of every publication regardless if you or I agree or not.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Royal-T-Bag said:


> take out a Duran who was really never shit all at 154


Wrong again, bro. Duran was clearly something at 154 because of his victories over Cuevas, Moore and Barkley. That win is better than anything Floyd can do in the future.



> DLH better than Cuevas


Not that washed up version of DLH, hell no. 


> Castillo better than Hill, Canelo about equal to Hill but likely to be better when his career is done


ok not really, I think you're underrating Hill here. Remember he had a very good record by the time he retired and had a few quality wins.



> Add in Corrales, Hatton, Hernandez, Cotto and the overall body of work of Mayweather actualy looks better.


A washed up version of Corrales? A shopworn Cotto? (who still performed well granted) The problem is that Floyd doesn't have a nemesis the way that Hearns did. Floyd never ALMOST beat an All Time Great, like hearns almost did to Leonard. AS a matter of fact, you could score the second fight to Hearns.



> Mosley by a landslide UD equal to MD over Benitez.


Did you just say a SHOT version Mosley is equal as a win over Benitez?? Even a prime version of Mosley would NOT be better than Benitez! Are you kidding me? Hearns won that fight convincingly, it should have been a UD. Benitez> Mosley, they aren't even close to being equal. Get that shit straight man, if you're going to analyze them like this keep in mind that a fucking SHOT version of Mosley is nowhere close to a near-prime Benitez.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Royal-T-Bag said:


> take out a Duran who was really never shit all at 154 and they're equal on resume. DLH better than Cuevas, Castillo better than Hill, Canelo about equal to Hill but likely to be better when his career is done, Mosley by a landslide UD equal to MD over Benitez. Add in Corrales, Hatton, Hernandez, Cotto and the overall body of work of Mayweather actualy looks equal. the no losses and dominant fashion he's won nearly every fight in will gain him favor over time as well again whether or not you agree with it doesn't matter.
> 
> tommy is my favorite fighter of all time and he would KO Mayweather H2H but you gotta realize history will reflect a lot better on mayweather especially if guys like Canelo, Guerrero, Ortiz go on to grab more titles and achieve future success. You already got respectable pundits and fighters making outlandish claims about Mayweather being top 3 ever (ridiculous to me by the way, he's nowhere near top 3 not even top 10 for that matter), Tommy never got that kind of praise in his prime or at the end of his career. 10 years from now you will see Mayweather in the top 10 ATG lists of every publication whether or not you agree with it that's what's going to happen. Common consesus will be against you in ranking Mayweather ahead of Tommy.


Duran was past his best at 154, but to say he "was never really shit at all" is crazy when just the year before he beat Cuevas, and gave Hagler a competitive fight at 160, and savagely beat Davey Moore. Hearns ended him like never before or since.

There is the Leonard rematch, which most consider a win for Hearns, when Leonard was coming off of his performance against Hagler and his KO victory against Lalonde.

Benitez had only lost once prior to Leonard in his whole career and had just come off of beating a version of Duran fresher than the one that beat Cuevas and Hagler and Moore. Prime for prime his ranking competes easily with Mosley, and hadn't suffered the losses and the aging Mosley had.

De La Hoya may rank higher than Hill, but he's not that far apart in terms of H2H ability on the night. Hill hadn't suffered a single loss yet.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Wrong again, bro. Duran was clearly something at 154 because of his victories over Cuevas, Moore and Barkley. That win is better than anything Floyd can do in the future.
> 
> Not that washed up version of DLH, hell no.
> 
> ...


Washed up Corrales?! Holy fuck me. And in the same breath are giving credit to beating that version of Cuevas.

Your bias is UNREAL :rofl


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Washed up Corrales?! Holy fuck me. And in the same breath are giving credit to beating that version of Cuevas.
> 
> Your bias is UNREAL :rofl


Well, I think Cuevas was better than Corrales at that point. Neither were prime of course. But Cuevas still had SOMETHING. I feel Corrales was more washed up.

And sorry if you don't agree with Hearns being better than floyd, but he is. Regardless of Cuevas or Corrales. Stop bitching man you're looking sad the way you're following me around.


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## Bill Butcher (Aug 27, 2013)

I doubt anybody with any reasonable knowledge of boxing would pick Floyd as the expected winner here. I voted Hearns by KO but in a 12 rounder I give Mayweather a decent shot to survive the 12 rounds but only at the cost of giving up at least 10 rounds being ultra defensive trying to avoid getting beat up but unable to avoid being totally outboxed from range. My feeling is though that Hearns TKO`s Floyd in the late rounds while being miles ahead on the cards. Terrible match up for Floyd, even worse than a pre New Orleans Duran, at least Roberto is similar in size to Floyd, Tommy is just ALL wrong for him.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Well, I think Cuevas was better than Corrales at that point. Neither were prime of course. But Cuevas still had SOMETHING. I feel Corrales was more washed up.
> 
> And sorry if you don't agree with Hearns being better than floyd, but he is. Regardless of Cuevas or Corrales. Stop bitching man you're looking sad the way you're following me around.


How was Corrales washed up he was unbeaten and went on to win major titles after :lol: Do you actually watch this era of boxing?

I actually have no qualms with anyone who picks Hearns but youre being ridiculous here. I voted for Hearns BTW


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> How was Corrales washed up he was unbeaten and went on to win major titles after


I think he wasn't at his best, which is my point. Been through alot of fights at that point, and a few wars. Sure he was still certainly a servicable fighter but no great win IMO.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> I think he wasn't at his best, which is my point. Been through alot of fights at that point, and a few wars. Sure he was still certainly a servicable fighter but no great win IMO.


Unreal stuff right here :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Unreal stuff right here :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl


quality reply. excuse me but I'm gonna play GTA now. have fun riding Floyd's cock.


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## Bill Butcher (Aug 27, 2013)

Flash Jab said:


> Just a question but why do people think Hearns would be a tougher fight for Mayweather than Leonard or Duran would be?


For the record I think all 3 guys beat Mayweather convincingly, the reason Hearns wins easiest is because of his size and boxing ability from range. Any success Floyd could ever hope to have vs Leonard & Duran would have to come from boxing at range, he`d have some success vs SRL & Duran here IMO but just nowhere near enough to win the fight. Its common sense to accept that Floyd doesn't want to get too close to any of these 3 guys, he isn't strong or big enough so the distance is the key to survival, that`s why Hearns is Floyd`d nightmare IMO, because he`ll box Floyd`s ears off all day long from distance, no matter were the fight ends up Tommy holds too much of an advantage.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> quality reply. excuse me but I'm gonna play GTA now. have fun riding Floyd's cock.


Tell me all about the wars Corrales has had prior to the Floyd fight when you get back, thanks.


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## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> Wrong again, bro. Duran was clearly something at 154 because of his victories over Cuevas, Moore and Barkley. That win is better than anything Floyd can do in the future.
> 
> Not that washed up version of DLH, hell no.
> 
> ...


Corrales was in his prime versus Mayweather, not washed up! :lol: He was unbeaten and on probably the best streak of his career. Where did that come from?


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## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

Hearns UD in a stink-fest as Mayweather tries to Jimmy Young him but acts perplexed that he doesn't get the decision


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## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Tell me all about the wars Corrales has had prior to the Floyd fight when you get back, thanks.


Diego at that point was doing nothing but destroying his opponents, washed up. :rofl


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

O59 said:


> Corrales was in his prime versus Mayweather, not washed up! :lol: He was unbeaten and on probably the best streak of his career. Where did that come from?


He got some strong nostalgia goggles.


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## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

dyna said:


> He got some strong nostalgia goggles.


If Corrales was "washed up" versus Mayweather then Duran against Hearns was a mummified corpse who had no business being within one-hundred feet of a boxing ring.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

O59 said:


> Diego at that point was doing nothing but destroying his opponents, washed up. :rofl


I'm absolutely dumbfounded. Cuevas was the one who was shot but it was Corrales who "I feel wasn't at their best so I think he was washed up" :rofl What is happening here?


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun doing a great tilang impression in here.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Duran was past his best at 154, but to say he "was never really shit at all" is crazy when just the year before he beat Cuevas, and gave Hagler a competitive fight at 160, and savagely beat Davey Moore. Hearns ended him like never before or since.
> 
> There is the Leonard rematch, which most consider a win for Hearns, when Leonard was coming off of his performance against Hagler and his KO victory against Lalonde.
> 
> ...


Benitez Duran are unquestionably greater wins. Hill is a ridiculously good win too. On par with Canelo and DLH IMO


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## Royal-T-Bag (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Wrong again, bro. Duran was clearly something at 154 because of his victories over Cuevas, Moore and Barkley. That win is better than anything Floyd can do in the future.
> 
> Not that washed up version of DLH, hell no.
> 
> ...


i see we're not being rational here and using nostalgic bias.....Benitez was rated lower at the time of the Hearns fight than Mosley was at the time of the Mayweather fight. he was just as shot as the mosley that mayweather fought. Neither went on to do anything significant afterwards. Benitez is the slightly better fighter though so even though he wasn't ranked as high as Mosley when he fought Floyd I rank both wins equal to me as both are borderline top 50 ATG's.

Corrales was prime when Mayweather beat him, how was he shot? He was an undefeated 23 year old who was destroying everyone with no wear and tear. He was ranked ahead of Floyd on the P4P list and was favored to beat Floyd. He also had the best wins of his career after the mayweather fight proving that he was indeed prime.

Hill was a very good fighter but you're overating him, Mayweather win vs greenish Canelo is easily equal to the Hearns win vs greenish Virgil Hill who had yet to beat a notable fighter unless you count czycz. Canelos career as of right now is better than Hills at the time he lost to Hearns, not debatable.

IMO history will reflect just as positively on Mayweathers 0 as they will Hearns' losing battles with ATG's.

Look we can discuss this all day but even if you don't agree with it you better accept that the consensus will be Mayweather is ranked higher. At no point in Hearns career were people debating the GOAT status or even top 5 ever status which many respectable pundits and fighters are presently doing with Mayweather (not me for the record).

Again no bias here I like Hearns better, he's literally my favorite fighter who ever lived....he would KO Mayweather and I think right now both are failrly closely ranked somewhere around the top 25-30 ATG. I just know that 10 years from any ATG list by any major publication like Ring, ESPN etc.... will have Mayweather higher than Hearns whether or not you or I agree, when his carer has been given 10 years of reflection it will bolster his ranking more.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

dyna said:


> Over 12 rounds, can even be SRR and Leonard really be favoured over Hearns?
> Leonard already lost (imo) to Hearns over 12 but that was at 160 though. Over 12 rounds primevprime he would have to up the pace faster sooner but that would also mean he'd receive much more flak. Over 15 rounds he had much more time to wait as his stamina was superior but over 12 rounds the stamina advantage would be a lot smaller.
> 
> With SRR I think it's either he gets outboxes or realizes he's being outboxed and forces Hearns in a war where SRR has the advantages.


Not sure what you're getting at Dyna.
Are you saying that Leonard's win over Hearns isn't really that significant because it was over 15 rounds and he'd lose over 12 prime for prime?
Only asking now.


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## Royal-T-Bag (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> *Duran was past his best at 154, but to say he "was never really shit at all" is crazy when just the year before he beat Cuevas, and gave Hagler a competitive fight at 160, and savagely beat Davey Moore. Hearns ended him like never before or since.*
> 
> There is the Leonard rematch, which most consider a win for Hearns, when Leonard was coming off of his performance against Hagler and his KO victory against Lalonde.
> 
> ...


bro hill hadn't beaten one significant fighter, canelos current resume is better than Hills at the time of the Hearns loss.

Cuevas was done when Duran got him, Moore was thrown in too deep too early, the close fight with Hagler was hella legit though and I concede he wasn't nothing at all at 154 but he clearly was not the same beast. Hearns KO of Duran is still the most impressive KO ever though.

You're right about the Leonard rematch, even Leonard himself now admits Hearns deserved that.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

It's amazing to me, how Hill made the HOF before Hamed and Corrales.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Royal-T-Bag said:


> bro hill hadn't beaten one significant fighter, canelos current resume is better than Hills at the time of the Hearns loss.
> 
> Cuevas was done when Duran got him, Moore was thrown in too deep too early, the close fight with Hagler was hella legit though and I concede he wasn't nothing at all at 154 but he clearly was not the same beast. Hearns KO of Duran is still the most impressive KO ever though.
> 
> You're right about the Leonard rematch, even Leonard himself now admits Hearns deserved that.


My point was just that he wasn't nothing at the weight.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Not sure what you're getting at Dyna.
> Are you saying that Leonard's win over Hearns isn't really that significant because it was over 15 rounds and he'd lose over 12 prime for prime?
> Only asking now.


No, what I'm saying that Hearns is a better 12 round fighter than he is over 15 rounds.
It's still as significant as prime Hearns in a 15 rounder is still the nr3 welter ever.

The Hearns win is still the second best win at welterweight ever. (Behind Duran-Leonard) So in historical context it will always be as significant as it always was.
What I sort of implied is that Hearns would be better suited in our era with 12 rounders than Leonard (Not trying to say Leonard would do bad or something, he'd still only be beatable by probably less than 5 fighters ever in his prime)

But for greatness this doesn't matter as you can only fight and beat the fighters who were in front of you as it was back then and we don't have timemachines yet so what matters in the end is that Leonard did better in the era he shared with Hearns and therefore is the greater fighter and will always be the greater fighter.
Thinking about them in a 12 rounder in their prime is just a fantasy I would have liked to see.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

dyna said:


> No, what I'm saying that Hearns is a better 12 round fighter than he is over 15 rounds.
> It's still as significant as prime Hearns in a 15 rounder is still the nr3 welter ever.
> 
> The Hearns win is still the second best win at welterweight ever. (Behind Duran-Leonard) So in historical context it will always be as significant as it always was.
> ...


Ah.Gotcha.
Cheers for clearing that up.Makes a lot more sense when you put it like that.


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## DudeGuyMan (Jul 24, 2012)

Hearns. Styles and talents aside, this is a HUGE welter who would eventually win a legit title at 175 versus a small welter who won his first title at 130.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> It's amazing to me, how Hill made the HOF before Hamed and Corrales.


I get people's problem with Hill,but he was a solid champion who was consistent champ for five years and ended up a two weight champ and became champ on three or four occasions.
He lost to the top names but he gets a bum rap in my view and did well in a very unloved division.And consider that he won his first title around 92 and in his last fight some 15 years later,he went the distance with Arslan in another title fight.
I'm not suggesting he's an ATG but he was a solid,consistent performer over many years,and a good ambassador for the non-elite level champions.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> I get people's problem with Hill,but he was a solid champion who was consistent champ for five years and ended up a two weight champ and became champ on three or four occasions.
> He lost to the top names but he gets a bum rap in my view and did well in a very unloved division.And consider that he won his first title around 92 and in his last fight some 15 years later,he went the distance with Arslan in another title fight.
> I'm not suggesting he's an ATG but he was a solid,consistent performer over many years,and a good ambassador for the non-elite level champions.


Absolutely but Hamed and Corrales' careers are undoubtedly on Hill's level.


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## thesandman (Jun 4, 2013)

Royal-T-Bag said:


> see my post above this one for explanation....whether you agree or not doesn't change the fact that he's already regarded higher by many and that 10 years of marinating on his career will see him in the top 10 ATG of every publication regardless if you or I agree or not.


Mate, you bag Hearns for an MD over Benitez, but make no mention of the fact Floyd only beat ODLH by SD.

If you want to take stats over using your eyes, that's fine by me. But at least use them equally.

The Benitez MD was poor judging. 
So was the Floyd/ODLH SD IMO.

Oscar was done at this point in time though. 
His last few fights were terrible.

The last Mosley fight was the last time he was a proper fighter.

Sturm, Hopkins and everything after he was a semi retired fighter, fighting using his name to cash out.


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