# Whos Better Jones Jr Or SR Robinson?



## Boxing Fanatic (Jun 5, 2013)

:think

poll added


----------



## TBooze (Dec 9, 2012)

That is a little unfair. Roy Jones Jr was an exceptional fighter, and some of us felt he could have been even better. But in Boxing's Valhalla, although eating with the Greats, Jones is not eating at the top table with Robinson, Grebb, Armstrong, Charles et al...


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Roy wins h2h but Robinson put in the better work more consistently


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Robinson, Robinson.

6 feet tall weighs a fucking ton.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Robinson is greater because of what he has done but Roy at his peak was simply p4p the best fighter ever.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

dyna said:


> Robinson is greater because of what he has done but Roy at his peak was simply p4p the best fighter ever.


:happy :happy


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

dyna said:


> Robinson is greater because of what he has done but *Roy at his peak was simply p4p the best fighter ever.*


You just can't know a thing like that, you can't throw a statement like that out as fact.


----------



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

H2H: I'm going out on a limb and say that RJJ at 160 was a better boxer than Randy Turpin based on the footage that I saw.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Randy Turpin.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

RJJ at 160 is better than SRR without a spec of a doubt, but prime for prime, H2H I rate SRR higher. In terms of greatness it's no match. I have Floyd greater than RJJ by a whisker which is set to grow as Floyd reaches 50-0.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Ivan Drago said:


> You just can't know a thing like that, you can't throw a statement like that out as fact.


Roy made everyone look like cab drivers, his dominance is rather unique.
Only Hopkins managed to land double digit numbers in rounds on Roy in his prime.

Even old timers were saying they might have been a notch below in ability compared to Roy, normally nostalgy is strong enough that they'll never say that.

Few fighters look close as good as Roy did on film.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Randy Turpin.


:lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:


This is my new schtick :lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

dyna said:


> Roy made everyone look like cab drivers, his dominance is rather unique.
> Only Hopkins managed to land double digit numbers in rounds on Roy in his prime.
> 
> Even old timers were saying they might have been a notch below in ability compared to Roy, normally nostalgy is strong enough that they'll never say that.
> ...


Exactly. If Roy Jones fought a ton of white boy plodders too he'd be recognized as the GOAT as well.


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

dyna said:


> Roy made everyone look like cab drivers, his dominance is rather unique.
> Only Hopkins managed to land double digit numbers in rounds on Roy in his prime.
> 
> Even old timers were saying they might have been a notch below in ability compared to Roy, normally nostalgy is strong enough that they'll never say that.
> ...


Well you have a better argument if you're talking about fighters on film, but there are so many guys including Robinson who's peaks were never captured on film that a statement like "Roy at his peak was simply P4P the best fighter ever" is ridiculous.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> This is my new schtick :lol:


Turpin's half- blackness is the only reason he passes as a marginally good middleweight.



turbotime said:


> Exactly. If Roy Jones fought a ton of white boy plodders too he'd be recognized as the GOAT as well.


Type II muscle fiber deficiency. White people are actually overwhelmingly not flat footed, so thats the only explanation for the plod.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

At least he fought Gavilan.


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

Ray Robinson.

But Derrick Jefferson shits on both of them.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Jefferson makes both look like Tony Zale


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> At least he fought Gavilan.


 Harry Greb had more balls. Probably one of the four greatest white people ever, nevermind fighters. I havent put a Mt Rushmore together because its unclear as to whether Italians figure into it. Cellzki once told me italians do not identify. @Brnxhands ?


----------



## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

To me, nobody beats RJJ in his prime, P4P the best fighter. If they ever met at an agreed catchweight in their prime, Roy takes it. Probably makes SRR look pretty ordinary.



Bogotazo said:


> Robinson, Robinson.
> 
> 6 feet tall weighs a fucking ton.


Robinson is better because he's 6' tall and weighs a lot?


----------



## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

Imagine what Robinson would look like if he had the compounds Jones was using


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Brnxhands said:


> Imagine what Robinson would look like if he had the compounds Jones was using


Whitaker only had little baggies of coke. Hes the fighter of the 1990s.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Harry Greb had more balls. Probably one of the four greatest white people ever, nevermind fighters. I havent put a Mt Rushmore together because its unclear as to whether Italians figure into it. Cellzki once told me italians do not identify. @Brnxhands ?


Mt. Of white fighters? Probably Greb, Leonard, Pep, Ross? Or if you're into celebrity Marciano or Dempsey


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Brnxhands said:


> Imagine what Robinson would look like if he had the compounds Jones was using


Imagine what Roy Jones would look like if he kept fighting Pazienza over and over.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

The 2nd most physically impressive boxer ive seen on tape is Ray Robinson

The most impressive Roy Jones


Keep in mind we have little footage of Ray at 147

Would be like rating Floyd and never seeing him at 130


----------



## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

Cellzki is wrong. Seems to be this thing with people saying italians arent white. Some sicilians don't consider themselves white. Other than that i dont get it though. An yeah Greb had more nuts than Robinson. Regardless of what people say on here Robinson missed Burley on purpose. I know charleys son, he use to work construction with my uncle. He said he wanted the fight


Hands of Iron said:


> Harry Greb had more balls. Probably one of the four greatest white people ever, nevermind fighters. I havent put a Mt Rushmore together because its unclear as to whether Italians figure into it. Cellzki once told me italians do not identify. @*Brnxhands* ?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Mt. Of white fighters? Probably Greb, Leonard, Pep, Ross? Or if you're into celebrity Marciano or Dempsey


Didnt Dempsey have native american? Hes your baggage. :lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Didnt Dempsey have native american? Hes your baggage. :lol:


That's his White guilt kicking in. All old timey whites claim to have like 1/36th cherokee in them or something :verysad


----------



## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

Dempsey was just bad. In my eyes him and Jeffries were never "heavyweight champions". You cant skip a whole race an call yourself a champion. Dempsey was one of the worst champions ever


turbotime said:


> Mt. Of white fighters? Probably Greb, Leonard, Pep, Ross? Or if you're into celebrity Marciano or Dempsey


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Brnxhands said:


> Dempsey was just bad. In my eyes him and Jeffries were never "heavyweight champions". You cant skip a whole race an call yourself a champion. Dempsey was one of the worst champions ever


Agreed. I used to rate him over Tyson back in my young and wild days :-(


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Great white fighters? And you skip Stanley Ketchel? chumps!


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Ketchel was aight. 

Greb
Leonard
Pep
Ross
Fitzsimmons
Walker
McClarnin
Canzoneri
Ketchel
Wilde

White G's :deal


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> That's his White guilt kicking in. *All old timey whites* claim to have like 1/36th cherokee in them or something :verysad


Those people were scumbags. :lol: I hate getting wildly and inaccurately thrown into that boat of history.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Agreed. I used to rate him over Tyson back in my young and wild days :-(


Less than a year ago?? :rofl


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

Terry McGovern is the biggest white badass since Alexander The Great.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Ketchel was aight.
> 
> Greb
> Leonard
> ...


Da Beest had crazy power. I forgot who on ESB made a thread just tearing his whole record down and crazy euro butthurt ensued.


----------



## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

I had to stop posting in the classic section. They were over there saying Marvin Hart would KO Frank Bruno easy.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Less than a year ago?? :rofl


:rofl :-( Older and wiser


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Brnxhands said:


> I had to stop posting in the classic section. They were over there saying Marvin Hart would KO Frank Bruno easy.


Thats pretty bad. Thanks for clearing up the Italian/White debate.



turbotime said:


> :rofl :-( Older and wiser


25, I suppose. About the last one worth celebrating. I have a real grim and nihilistic type outlook on life, unfortunately. You think 70 is too young, and I dont care to reach it.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Thats pretty bad. Thanks for clearing up the Italian/White debate.
> 
> 25, I suppose. About the last one worth celebrating. I have a real grim and nihilistic type outlook on life, unfortunately. You think 70 is too young, and I dont care to reach it.


40 is going to be fucking awesome :happy :happy


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Next year I'll break my breakfast bacon into a 27. :yep


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

:lol: Those flashforwards are killing me right now :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> 40 is going to be fucking awesome :happy :happy


Still a bachelor and needing to be carried out of places by not one, but two mates. :lol: You fucking lightweight, you. Uh I cant handle much either.


----------



## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

I have the same outlook on life hands. I been thinkin about it alot lately. Fuccck. I'm 27 an the birthdays just arent something i look forward to anymore. Its all down hill from here


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Still a bachelor and needing to be carried out of places by not one, but two mates. :lol: You fucking lightweight, you. Uh I cant handle much either.


:lol: I wasnt being carried out we were at a party walking about :bart


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Brnxhands said:


> I have the same outlook on life hands. I been thinkin about it alot lately. Fuccck. I'm 27 an the birthdays just arent something i look forward to anymore. Its all down hill from here


Yeah bro its so fucken depressing. Im under the delusion that I can offset it by treating my body like a temple and reaching peak shape at 30.



turbotime said:


> :lol: I wasnt being carried out we were at a party walking about :bart


:lol:

Props for even posting it. That type of shit makes it easier to converse and relate to people when its not 100% anonymous. You at least have a general idea of the person on the other side.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

It's hard for me to picture a guy afraid to fight Charley Burley and Ezzard Charles could beat Roy Jones Jr.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> Props for even posting it. That type of shit makes it easier to converse and relate to people when its not 100% anonymous. You at least have a general idea of the person on the other side.


2 white guys to top it all off, luckily I didn't end up ridden with diseases and in a ditch somewhere :-(


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> 2 white guys to top it all off, luckily I didn't end up ridden with diseases and in a ditch somewhere :-(


Didnt you wake up one time with bruises on your neck? :rofl


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> It's hard for me to picture a guy afraid to fight Charley Burley and Ezzard Charles could beat Roy Jones Jr.


OOOOOOO


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> It's hard for me to picture a guy afraid to fight Charley Burley and Ezzard Charles could beat Roy Jones Jr.


By the same logic you can also say that its hard to envision a guy that was afraid to go to Germany to fight a guy like Darius Michalcwesky could beat Ray Robinson. At least Ezzard Charles and Charley Burley are ATG unlike DM who will be extremely lucky to make it to the hall of fame(by me he could go to the HOF but only as a visitor), And how did he duck Charles when Charles always fought at least two divisions above Ray? Burley yes he ducked but Charles fuck no.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Ray didn't want none of that chocolate slickness. He wouldn't even spar in the same gym as Marshall and Burley :verysad


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> By the same logic you can also say that its hard to envision a guy that was afraid to go to Germany to fight a guy like Darius Michalcwesky could beat Ray Robinson. At least Ezzard Charles and Charley Burley are ATG unlike DM who will be extremely lucky to make it to the hall of fame(by me he could go to the HOF but only as a visitor), And how did he duck Charles when Charles always fought at least two divisions above Ray? Burley yes he ducked but Charles fuck no.


Roy Jones > Gonzalez> Michaelczewski


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> By the same logic you can also say that its hard to envision a guy that was afraid to go to Germany to fight a guy like Darius Michalcwesky could beat Ray Robinson. At least Ezzard Charles and Charley Burley are ATG unlike DM who will be extremely lucky to make it to the hall of fame(by me he could go to the HOF but only as a visitor), And how did he duck Charles when Charles always fought at least two divisions above Ray? Burley yes he ducked but Charles fuck no.


Ray could go up and weight and cherry pick Joey Maxim when he had the title. How come he didn't want to do the same with Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Brnxhands said:


> I have the same outlook on life hands. I been thinkin about it alot lately. Fuccck. I'm 27 an the birthdays just arent something i look forward to anymore. Its all down hill from here


Here is a picture of the brain releasing an insane amount of endorphins right before you die, basically what "Life flashing before your eyes" is.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Here is a picture of the brain releasing an insane amount of endorphins right before you die, basically what "Life flashing before your eyes" is.


I love endorphins.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I love endorphins.


Body building will do that!


----------



## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> By the same logic you can also say that its hard to envision a guy that was afraid to go to Germany to fight a guy like Darius Michalcwesky could beat Ray Robinson. At least Ezzard Charles and Charley Burley are ATG unlike DM who will be extremely lucky to make it to the hall of fame(by me he could go to the HOF but only as a visitor), And how did he duck Charles when Charles always fought at least two divisions above Ray? Burley yes he ducked but Charles fuck no.


But Charles and Burley fought in the U.S?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> Robinson is better because he's 6' tall and weighs a lot?


:verysad

I was previewing remix:






@KillSomething


----------



## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

the surprising thing is that 5 voted for Roy.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MAG1965 said:


> the surprising thing is that 5 voted for Roy.


Name one fighter from Robinson's ledger that beats Roy Jones.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Ray could go up and weight and cherry pick Joey Maxim when he had the title. How come he didn't want to do the same with Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore


BBall in the midst of all these spambot deletions, I swear I almost deleted you and your threads and your posts forever. I am very glad I did not.

Keep on reporting my friend.


----------



## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

Jones is way more impressive on film. He's a much better fighter.


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Name one fighter from Robinson's ledger that beats Roy Jones.


 That is not a valid question since Roy spent the vast majority of his career at 175lbs whereas Ray started his at 147lbs before moving up to middleweight, apples and oranges really. A more valid question would be who on Roy`s resume during his stint at middleweight might potentially beat Sugar Ray?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> That is not a valid question since Roy spent the vast majority of his career at 175lbs whereas Ray started his at 147lbs before moving up to middleweight, apples and oranges really. A more valid question would be who on Roy`s resume during his stint at middleweight might potentially beat Sugar Ray?


Hopkins obviously.


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

SouthPaw said:


> Jones is way more impressive on film. He's a much better fighter.


 I`ll take Ray`s intangibles and indomitable will to win over Roy`s purely physical attributes as there is more to boxing than athletic ability and Robinson showed his mettle when the going got tough, Roy for all his god given ability and talent comes up short in that department.


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Hopkins obviously.


You honestly believe that the Hopkins Jones defeated would pose a threat to Robinson let alone beat him? or any version of Hopkins for that matter? We`re going to have to agree to disagree on that then, who on Hopkins resume comes anywhere close to having the same ability and skills in the ring during his middleweight reign that Robinson displayed during his own tenure at 160?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> You honestly believe that the Hopkins Jones defeated would pose a threat to Robinson let alone beat him? or any version of Hopkins for that matter? We`re going to have to agree to disagree on that then, who on Hopkins resume comes anywhere close to having the same ability and skills in the ring during his middleweight reign that Robinson displayed during his own tenure at 160?


Of course I do.

Robinson was far more inconsistent at 160 than Hopkins was. Hopkins surely wouldn't let a welterweight in Basilio or a plodder like Turpin come up and take his title.


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Of course I do.
> 
> Robinson was far more inconsistent at 160 than Hopkins was. Hopkins surely wouldn't let a welterweight in Basilio or a plodder like Turpin come up and take his title.


 Granted Ray was inconsistent at middleweight, but on his best day at the weight vs Hopkins best at 160 I`ll take the version of Ray who clobbered LaMotta into submission for the title over any version of Hopkins at middleweight. Nard is not going to step in and shut down Ray on the inside with his dirty tactics and spoiling style if Robinson is on his game and comes into the fight fully prepared and ready to rumble, I have no doubt Hopkins will give him a good fight but beat him? I just don`t see it, but then again I have never been as impressed with Hopkins as other seems to be. Ray can match him on the inside and his offence is leagues above what Nard has ever shown during his career against a lack of credible opposition for the most part at 160, throw Nard in the ring with the same opposition that Ray faced at the weight and he ain`t walking away undefeated, can`t say the same if Ray had faced Bernard`s list of opponents at middle.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Bladerunner said:


> But Derrick Jefferson shits on both of them.


Both were lucky they didin't have to face Henry Hank.

And Hank would make Jefferson scream in horror.

As far as useless P4P rankings are concerned - Pichit Sithbanprachan #1 and it's not even close.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> Granted Ray was inconsistent at middleweight, but on his best day at the weight vs Hopkins best at 160 I`ll take the version of Ray who clobbered LaMotta into submission for the title over any version of Hopkins at middleweight. Nard is not going to step in and shut down Ray on the inside with his dirty tactics and spoiling style if Robinson is on his game and comes into the fight fully prepared and ready to rumble, I have no doubt Hopkins will give him a good fight but beat him? I just don`t see it, but then again I have never been as impressed with Hopkins as other seems to be. Ray can match him on the inside and his offence is leagues above what Nard has ever shown during his career against a lack of credible opposition for the most part at 160, throw Nard in the ring with the same opposition that Ray faced at the weight and he ain`t walking away undefeated, can`t say the same if Ray had faced Bernard`s list of opponents at middle.


So it took Robinson 4 or 5 tries against Lamotta "to be on his best day" ??


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> So it took Robinson 4 or 5 tries against Lamotta "to be on his best day" ??


 What are you talking about? They fought each as often as they did as almost no one else wanted to take on either man during that timeframe so they fought each other as there was a lot of money to be made for both men by doing so. The fact that Ray while being outweighed by as much as a dozen pounds if not more in all of their bouts save the last one and him winning 5 out of 6 against one of the best aggressive swarmers in the history of the middleweight division is a hugely impressive feat in of itself. That would be equivalent of Bernard as a middleweight taking on and defeating say Dwight Qawi coming into each fight as a full fledged lightheavy and still besting him over half a dozen fights.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> What are you talking about? They fought each as often as they did as almost no one else wanted to take on either man during that timeframe so they fought each other as there was a lot of money to be made for both men by doing so. The fact that Ray while being outweighed by as much as a dozen pounds if not more in all of their bouts save the last one and him winning 5 out of 6 against one of the best aggressive swarmers in the history of the middleweight division is a hugely impressive feat in of itself. *That would be equivalent of Bernard as a middleweight taking on and defeating say Dwight Qawi coming into each fight as a full fledged lightheavy and still besting him over half a dozen fights.*


Holy fuck :rofl :rofl


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

Besides Hopkins does not resemble LaMotta stylistically in the least, Ray had problems with fighters who tried to crowd him and take the fight to him a la Basilio and Fullmer for example, not cutey spoiler types with dirty tactics trying to get inside and smother his offense as Hopkins would attempt to do. Keep in mind we are taking the best version of Robinson at middleweight against the best of Hopkins at the same weight, what exactly does Hopkins bring into the ring that Ray hasn`t seen and defeated before? Hopkins has never faced someone of the caliber of Robinson save for Roy Jones, and we all know how that fight turned out now don`t we? And keep in mind that Ray was already a veteran of well over a hundred fights by the time he stepped up to middleweight, all things considered his body of work at the weight whilst past his prime is astonishing really.


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Holy fuck :rofl :rofl


 What is so amusing? Stylistically speaking Qawi is similar to a certain extent to LaMotta, both were pressure fighters with a sound defence and incredibly strong physically and very effective on the inside against their opponents when they managed to close the distance. Qawi`s offence was more polished and he was a better two handed fighter granted but I was simply illustrating my point that Ray whilst a mere welter managed to get the better of a massive middleweight in Jake five times out of six in their series, if you don`t think that is impressive then I don`t know what to tell you.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> What is so amusing? Stylistically speaking Qawi is similar to a certain extent to LaMotta, both were pressure fighters with a sound defence and incredibly strong physically and very effective on the inside against their opponents when they managed to close the distance. Qawi`s offence was more polished and he was a better two handed fighter granted but I was simply illustrating my point that Ray whilst a mere welter managed to get the better of a massive middleweight in Jake five times out of six in their series, if you don`t think that is impressive then I don`t know what to tell you.


Yet you're educating me on styles when Holyfield made the Qawi fights far harder than they needed to be. When Roy Jones made every fight look easy.

Give me the Hopkins that beat Trinidad over the Robinson that beat Lamotta 5 times out of 7.


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Yet you're educating me on styles when Holyfield made the Qawi fights far harder than they needed to be. When Roy Jones made every fight look easy.
> 
> Give me the Hopkins that beat Trinidad over the Robinson that beat Lamotta 5 times out of 7.


 Where does Holyfield even enter the discussion here? You are not making any sense with that analogy so I don`t know why you even brought it up.

Don`t get me wrong I have alot of respect for Hopkins' defense and overall strategic ability to win fights even though he does not impress me all that much.... I have to give credit where it's due and he would be a hard fight for anyone in history.

Given that, how would you implement a plan against a peak Robinson? Where would you attack? It would'nt be as simple as going to your right to offset his right hand. Robinson is very adept at firing knockout blows from either side.

Maybe force the fight to the inside? Maybe...but the toll to be paid would be very high. Robinson knows a little about fighting in any situation in the ring... Watch the beginning of the thirteenth round of his fight with LaMotta, they come together for a clinch, Robinson bends his knees enough to get the room for a nice right uppercut, then two very short, but very hard left hooks to get jake off of him...it's a beautiful sequence.

Robinson by points for me, his ring IQ, experience, firepower and speed would be deciding factors in the fight and gain him the victory.


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

Now as to why I voted Ray as the better fighter than Roy Jones here is why:

Roy at middleweight was an amazing force due to his speed and concussive power. He is a legitimate threat to any ATG at the weight.

But a few things to consider about SRR, in comparison...

Robinson always made a concentrated effort to go to the body. Robinson knew that by going 'downstairs' he could change the coarse of a fight. He thought in terms of accumulating damage to the opponent...Where as Jones threw hard punches...Robinson threw with intent.

A better 'feel' for the ring...Generally speaking, Robinson knew where he was in the ring. Jones would often find himself languishing on the ropes or in corners. It is a tactical mistake to allow an opponent to dictate where you are fighting in the ring. Robinson knew where he was due to an edge in experience over Jones.

He is battle tested...Ray had the experience of having fought the best fighters in a difficult era. Who is harder to overcome someone who has been tested or untested? Robinson uses the left jab much more often to set up power punches and combinations. Ray had a more concise delivery of shorter blows than Jones. Roy would rely on timing, speed, and brilliant physical gifts to at times jump in with powerful and bewildering blows...But Robinson is perhaps the better combination power puncher.

During the fight with Hopkins, Jones would wait until his opponent finished firing his combinations before firing back...Robinson as stated before, had the penchant for firing between an opponent's offense.

It seems to me, that Robinson's legacy and reality speak loudly enough for themselves.


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Roy Jones > Gonzalez> Michaelczewski


You dont get wins by proxy. You either did it or you didnt. In this case Gonzalez(RIP) did it ,Jones didnt.


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> Ray could go up and weight and cherry pick Joey Maxim when he had the title. How come he didn't want to do the same with Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore


Again just using your logic here, Roy could go up in weight and cherry pick John Ruiz for a belt. How come he didnt do the same with Lennox Lewis.


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> But Charles and Burley fought in the U.S?


Ray did a tour in Europe fighting in several countries and Roy couldnt even go to Germany to face a guy he would most certainly beat with ease.


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Both were lucky they didin't have to face Henry Hank.


Oh Indeed.

Hank operated on a level Robinson and Jones could only dream of.:yep


----------



## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> The 2nd most physically impressive boxer ive seen on tape is Ray Robinson
> 
> The most impressive Roy Jones
> 
> ...


You nearly went a whole post without mentioning Floyd then. Nearly.

My answer to the original question is Ray Robinson , i reckon he'd starch Roy, never fought anyone remotely on Robinsons level.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> Again just using your logic here, Roy could go up in weight and cherry pick John Ruiz for a belt. How come he didnt do the same with Lennox Lewis.


Sure, if Ruiz was a cherrypick then Holyfield was not an ATG


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

dyna said:


> Sure, if Ruiz was a cherrypick then Holyfield was not an ATG


That shit doesnt even make sense, as its usual the case with you.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

dyna said:


> Sure, if Ruiz was a cherrypick then Holyfield was not an ATG


dude, are you kidding? Beating up a washed up Holyfield is not so impressive. I honestly dont know why you even post shit like this.

It most certainly WAS a cherry pick. Jones knew his only success at heavyweight would be beating Ruiz, and that's it. That's why he moved down. Any decent heavyweight would have crushed him.


----------



## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

I can no longer distinguish between who's trolling and who's legitimately making bad arguments


----------



## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> I`ll take Ray`s intangibles and indomitable will to win over Roy`s purely physical attributes as there is more to boxing than athletic ability and Robinson showed his mettle when the going got tough, Roy for all his god given ability and talent comes up short in that department.







We've gone over this a million times. Jones dead at the weight and badly drained. His legs are gone by round 4. He has to fight off the ropes and he clearly wins.


----------



## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> dude, are you kidding? Beating up a washed up Holyfield is not so impressive. I honestly dont know why you even post shit like this.
> 
> It most certainly WAS a cherry pick. Jones knew his only success at heavyweight would be beating Ruiz, and that's it. That's why he moved down. Any decent heavyweight would have crushed him.


Look at the ratings at HW at the time. Ruiz was clearly a top 5 HW


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

SouthPaw said:


> Look at the ratings at HW at the time. Ruiz was clearly a top 5 HW


But he still wasn't a quality HW or anything, this kind of thing should be universal knowledge. He was far from elite, this is coming from somebody that IS FROM Massachusetts. Jones went in and beat a limited fighter and then left HW before he got crushed. come on now.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Give me the Hopkins that beat Trinidad over the Robinson that beat Lamotta 5 times out of 7.


Jesus christ I've heard it all now. LaMotta>Trinidad.


----------



## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> But he still wasn't a quality HW or anything, this kind of thing should be universal knowledge. He was far from elite, this is coming from somebody that IS FROM Massachusetts. Jones went in and beat a limited fighter and then left HW before he got crushed. come on now.


See. YOU get to define quality. Joey Maxim wasn't a QUALITY LHW and Robinson quit on his stool...and he never tried to go back up after he lost.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

SouthPaw said:


> See. YOU get to define quality. Joey Maxim wasn't a QUALITY LHW and Robinson quit on his stool...and he never tried to go back up after he lost.


uh, what? Holding a fight like that over SRR's head is retarded. Maxim was a very good fighter and definitely better than Ruiz overall. Robinson was winning that fight until the heat bullshit, if i'm right. So I kind of give SRR a pass for that. SRR had already moved up from welterweight to take on some huge challenges so you can't even say about not wanting to go back up, he already climbed that mountain and fought guys out of his natural weight class


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

SouthPaw said:


> See. YOU get to define quality. Joey Maxim wasn't a QUALITY LHW and Robinson quit on his stool...and he never tried to go back up after he lost.


Joey Maxim is a hall of famer and his resume is better than anyone Roy Jones faced at Light heavyweight and miles better than Ruiz the guy Roy cherrypicked a title from. Not only was Maxim a better fighter than Ruiz but he also beat better heavyweights than Ruiz(JJ Walcott for example), a past his prime Ray could still compete with the best and even in his final days as a fighter when he was just a shell of his former self he still would show things like heart, toughness and resilience(never being stopped other than that time with Maxim) while Jones past his best goes around getting knocked out by almost everyone he faces , .... I like Jones but you damn nutthuggers who think hes god with boxing gloves make me look like an hater which i'm far from being one(i'm actually a fan).

As for the all Ray cherrypciked Maxim stuff, Maxim was the LHW champion in a time where there was only one champion per division, Ray didnt cherrypicked him he moved up and fought the champ and was beating the champ until the doctor stopped the fight due to the ill effects the heat caused on Ray, Roy cherrypicked one of the worse heavyweight titlists in the history of the division and then instead of making an attempt at true greatness by challenging Lewis for the lineal legitimate heavyweight championship he chose to came back to light heavy and in two fights he was getting stopped by the likes of Tarver and Johnson.


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

SouthPaw said:


> We've gone over this a million times. Jones dead at the weight and badly drained. His legs are gone by round 4. He has to fight off the ropes and he clearly wins.


 One fight does not a warrior make. Ray showed his mettle consistently throughout his entire career even when he was nothing more than a mere shell of his former self, Jones on the other hand came up short each and every time he was tested after the first Tarver fight. There is simply no comparison whatsoever between the two when discussing intangibles such as heart, toughness and will to win, none.


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

SouthPaw said:


> See. YOU get to define quality. Joey Maxim wasn't a QUALITY LHW and *Robinson quit on his stool*...and he never tried to go back up after he lost.


 Wrong again. The ring doctor stopped the fight because Ray was suffering from heat prostration and had to go to the hospital afterwards, he did not quit of his own volition.


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Jesus christ I've heard it all now. LaMotta>Trinidad.


 Indeed, because Hopkins applying that same strategy he used against a predictable Trinidad would work on a far superior fighter such as Ray Robinson.:lol:


----------



## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> Joey Maxim is a hall of famer and his resume is better than anyone Roy Jones faced at Light heavyweight and miles better than Ruiz the guy Roy cherrypicked a title from, a past his prime Ray could still compete with the best while Jones past his best goes around getting knocked out by almost everyone he faces.... I like Jones but you damn nutthuggers who think hes god with boxing gloves make me look like an hater which i'm far from being.
> 
> Maxim was the LHW champion in a time where there was only one champion per division, Ray didnt cherrypicked him he moved up and fought the champ and was beating the champ until the doctor stopped the fight due to the ill effects the heat caused on Ray, Roy cherrypicked one of the worse heavyweight titlists in the history of the division and then instead of making an attempt at true greatness by challenging Lewis for the lineal legitimate heavyweight championship he chose to came back to light heavy and in two fights he was getting stopped by the likes of Tarver and Johnson.


Arturo Gatti is a HoF...that doesn't mean shit.

He cherrypicked an slow talentless fighter and quit on his stool.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> It's hard for me to picture a guy afraid to fight Charley Burley and Ezzard Charles could beat Roy Jones Jr.


You mean two guys who are probably even better than Roy? :lol:

I'll take the guy who was "afraid" of Charles or Burley over the guy who was afraid to fight Richard Hall without being roided to his eyeballs.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> One fight does not a warrior make. Ray showed his mettle consistently throughout his entire career even when he was nothing more than a mere shell of his former self, Jones on the other hand came up short each and every time he was tested after the first Tarver fight. There is simply no comparison whatsoever between the two when discussing intangibles such as heart, toughness and will to win, none.


Thats hilariously retarded. The fact Roy who was the superman in his prime continues to take the beatings he takes shows his heart. Heart is often synonymous with stupidity ask Mayweather. Roy has taken some helacious beatings and has never quit not once


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> You mean two guys who are probably even better than Roy? :lol:
> 
> I'll take the guy who was "afraid" of Charles or Burley over the guy who was afraid to fight Richard Hall without being roided to his eyeballs.


Lol stop. You know if a prime Roy fought Charles or burley your ass aint layin no money down, lets keep the discussion realistic buddy

You are talking about the H2H goat here


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Jesus christ I've heard it all now. LaMotta>Trinidad.


Still waiting on how you said Corrales was washed up :lol:


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Name one fighter from Robinson's ledger that beats Roy Jones.


Turpin.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> *You mean two guys who are probably even better than Roy? :lol:*
> 
> I'll take the guy who was "afraid" of Charles or Burley over the guy who was afraid to fight Richard Hall without being roided to his eyeballs.


:lol: Stop it.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> Joey Maxim is a hall of famer and his resume is better than anyone Roy Jones faced at Light heavyweight and miles better than Ruiz the guy Roy cherrypicked a title from. Not only was Maxim a better fighter than Ruiz but he also beat better heavyweights than Ruiz(JJ Walcott for example), a past his prime Ray could still compete with the best and even in his final days as a fighter when he was just a shell of his former self he still would show things like heart, toughness and resilience(never being stopped other than that time with Maxim) while Jones past his best goes around getting knocked out by almost everyone he faces , .... I like Jones but you damn nutthuggers who think hes god with boxing gloves make me look like an hater which i'm far from being one(i'm actually a fan).
> 
> As for the all Ray cherrypciked Maxim stuff, Maxim was the LHW champion in a time where there was only one champion per division, Ray didnt cherrypicked him he moved up and fought the champ and was beating the champ until the doctor stopped the fight due to the ill effects the heat caused on Ray, Roy cherrypicked one of the worse heavyweight titlists in the history of the division and then instead of making an attempt at true greatness by challenging Lewis for the lineal legitimate heavyweight championship he chose to came back to light heavy and in two fights he was getting stopped by the likes of Tarver and Johnson.


Unm theres a reason why there hadnt been a middleweight to heavyweight champ in 100 years

Please tell us your strategy for how Roy was supposed to beat Lennox Lewis.

Dont compare that to Ray Robinson fighting fucking joey maxim lol


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> Turpin.


:rofl :rofl :rofl


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> Turpin.


Umm no. You ok?


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

SouthPaw said:


> Arturo Gatti is a HoF...that doesn't mean shit.
> 
> He cherrypicked an slow talentless fighter and quit on his stool.


A talentless fighter wouldnt beat the likes of Floyd Patterson, Jersey Joe Walcott, Jimmy Bivins, Bob Satterfield among others,comparing him to Gatti or Ruiz is dumb and just shows your ignorance when it comes to the history of the sport.


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> *Thats hilariously retarded*. The fact Roy who was the superman in his prime continues to take the beatings he takes shows his heart. Heart is often synonymous with stupidity ask Mayweather. Roy has taken some helacious beatings and has never quit not once


 As are you, clearly. A fighter repeatedly taking sustained beatings against inferior opposition in fights he is not competitive in does not show heart, it shows a punching bag who doesn`t know when to pack it in and call it a day. 
Matthew Saad Muhammad is one of my all-time favourite fighters, but it doesn`t change the fact that past his prime he was showing not so much heart as a stubbornness and incapability to admit to himself that he was too far gone to keep fighting at the top, and thus he got beaten and stopped several times against inferior fighters who he would have decapitated in his prime.

This applies to Roy as well, taking a beating in of itself does not show toughness and heart. Fighting back however and giving it your all while taking said beatings does however show some mettle, this has not been the case with Roy as it was with Robinson who even when far over the hill often dug down deep and pulled out the victory, and if he didn`t he at least fought to the best of abilities to the final bell.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> A talentless fighter wouldnt beat the likes of Floyd Patterson, Jersey Joe Walcott, Jimmy Bivins, Bob Satterfield among others,comparing him to Gatti or Ruiz is dumb and just shows your ignorance when it comes to the history of the sport.


Rofl your dumbass does know Floyd Patterson was robbed dont you? That the decision was booed for like 10 minutes afterwards.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> As are you, clearly. A fighter repeatedly taking sustained beatings against inferior opposition in fights he is not competitive in does not show heart, it shows a punching bag who doesn`t know when to pack it in and call it a day.
> Matthew Saad Muhammad is one of my all-time favourite fighters, but it doesn`t change the fact that past his prime he was showing not so much heart as a stubbornness and incapability to admit to himself that he was too far gone to keep fighting at the top, and thus he got beaten and stopped several times against inferior fighters who he would have decapitated in his prime.
> 
> This applies to Roy as well, taking a beating in of itself does not show toughness and heart. Fighting back however and giving it your all while taking said beatings does however show some mettle, this has not been the case with Roy as it was with Robinson who even when far over the hill often dug down deep and pulled out the victory, and if he didn`t he at least fought to the best of abilities to the final bell.


I guess since Charles went 6-12 before he retired means he was just a talentless punchbag as well.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

http://books.google.com/books?id=Wi...a=X&ei=3gpHUsqNAsrSyAHMxoGoBA&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAg

Joey pretty much stunk the joint out against a green Patterson


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> http://books.google.com/books?id=Wi...a=X&ei=3gpHUsqNAsrSyAHMxoGoBA&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAg
> 
> Joey pretty much stunk the joint out against a green Patterson


Floyd only had like 11 fights didn't he :lol:


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> BBall in the midst of all these spambot deletions, I swear I almost deleted you and your threads and your posts forever. I am very glad I did not.
> 
> Keep on reporting my friend.


oh damn that would have sucked :lol: I put a lot of work into my Boxer's purse thread


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Still waiting on how you said Corrales was washed up :lol:


still waiting on you to show me a better version of walcott than the one that fought rocky, but that won't happen either :lol: :lol::lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> still waiting on you to show me a better version of walcott than the one that fought rocky, but that won't happen either :lol: :lol::lol:


The Walcott that stopped Charles :deal


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> I guess since Charles went 6-12 before he retired means he was just a talentless punchbag as well.


Reading comprehension really isn`t your strong suit is it? It is not the losses that one must look at, but the manner in which said fighters lost and how they performed in defeat against what kind of opposition. And sad as it is to say, in his last half a dozen fights Charles was indeed reduced to being a talentless punchbag by then, although the fact that he was likely fighting while suffering from the disease that would ultimately take his life gives him a slight pass in my book.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Floyd only had like 11 fights didn't he :lol:


14 i believe. 19 years old.

The only reason i can see they gave the fight to Maxim was because Floyd was the young phenom and because Maxim survived he "won"

In reality Floyd was landing all the meaningful punches, pressing the fight, and snapping Maxims head back. Maxim was pawing with the jab and holding


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> Reading comprehension really isn`t your strong suit is it? It is not the losses that one must look at, but the manner in which said fighters lost and how they performed in defeat against what kind of opposition. And sad as it is to say, in his last half a dozen fights Charles was indeed reduced to being a talentless punchbag by then, *although the fact that he was likely fighting while suffering from the disease that would ultimately take his life gives him a slight pass in my book.*


:lol: assuming gets you nowhere.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Umm no.


Umm yes, why not? Even a peak Jones managed to lose to Montell Griffin after all.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> The Walcott that stopped Charles :deal


okay, they are comperable, pretty much the same on film but whatever


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Rofl your dumbass does know Floyd Patterson was robbed dont you? That the decision was booed for like 10 minutes afterwards.


So was Castillo against Mayweather and we still get to hear your modern day slave ass grunting" theres no blueprint!!! Theres no Blueprint!!!!" like a fucking retard, now stop trying to sent pics of your baby dick to some ugly ass immigrant and go back to work 12 hour shifts before i call your massa.:lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> okay, they are comperable, pretty much the same on film but whatever


so what wars were Corrales in before the Mayweather fight ? :lol:


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> Again just using your logic here, Roy could go up in weight and cherry pick John Ruiz for a belt. How come he didnt do the same with Lennox Lewis.


err. uh

Randy Turpin 


poorface said:


> I can no longer distinguish between who's trolling and who's legitimately making bad arguments


:hey


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> Umm yes, why not? Even a peak Jones managed to lose to Montell Griffin after all.


No a peak Jones was on his way to stopping Griffin and became overzealous and hit him while he was on the ground and disqualified.

Stop it


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> so what wars were Corrales in before the Mayweather fight ? :lol:


all of the emoticions do nothing for you, just so you know. just makes you look really obnoxious.

from what I remember, the Juuko, Robert Garcia and John Brown fights were all tough fights. Martinet put up a fight to Corrales as well.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> all of the emoticions do nothing for you, just so you know. just makes you look really obnoxious.
> 
> from what I remember, the Juuko, Robert Garcia and John Brown fights were all tough fights. Martinet put up a fight to Corrales as well.


Juuko and Brown lost almost every round :lol: They were very easy fights for Corrales.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> So was Castillo against Mayweather and we still get to hear your modern day slave ass grunting" theres no blueprint!!! Theres no Blueprint!!!!" like a fucking retard, now stop trying to sent pics of your baby dick to some ugly ass immigrant and go back to work 12 hour shifts before i call your massa.:lol:


Lmao. Stay off wkipedia son, or ill son you again.


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

Jones goes life and death with a guy like Montell griffin, looks clueless and like shit against the average Eric Harding and then gets knocked out left and right by guys like Tarver, Johnson,Green,Lebedev and somehow these guys think hes the H2H best ever, i love Roy but hes becoming the most overrated fighter in boxing.


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> :lol: assuming gets you nowhere.


 And that is your rebuttal to what I said? What are you 15? People close to Charles suspected after he was diagnosed with ALS that there was a high probability that he had been fighting while in the early stages of the disease as some of the symptoms associated with ALS where on display at the tail end of his career. There is no way of proving this obviously but I have spoken with someone who knew Ezzard very well and who saw him train including at the end and according to him he was exhibiting symptoms of the disease while he was still fighting, namely in the last half dozen fights of his career give or take. If you are going to debate against me you`re going to have to do better than this.


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Lmao. Stay off wkipedia son, or ill son you again.


You're the one using google not me dumbass, did you even seen the fight i bet you haven't you're two busy being a modern day slave working 12 hour shifts and trying to bang some ugly ass immigrant with two kids.:lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> And that is your rebuttal to what I said? What are you 15? People close to Charles suspected after he was diagnosed with ALS that there was a high probability that he had been fighting while in the early stages of the disease as some of the symptoms associated with ALS where on display at the tail end of his career. There is no way of proving this obviously but I have spoken with someone who knew Ezzard very well and who saw him train including at the end and according to him he was exhibiting symptoms of the disease while he was still fighting, namely in the last half dozen fights of his career give or take. If you are going to debate against me you`re going to have to do better than this.


Again, it's another assumption on your friend's behalf.

Regardless we're straying off topic. So you think Hopkins would let someone like tiny ass Basilio come up and beat him like Robinson did? no.

There was good reasn Robinson would rather fight Lamotta 6 times than anyone like Marshall, Charles, Burley, Booker or Williams.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> No a peak Jones was on his way to stopping Griffin and became overzealous and hit him while he was on the ground and disqualified.


Exactly the kinds of things that happen when a fighter can't keep his poise in a rough fight with an award opponent.

Turpin was also awkward, as were several other of Robinson's standout opponents (i.e: Fullmer).


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> Jones goes life and death with a guy like Montell griffin, looks clueless and like shit against the average Eric Harding and somehow and then gets knocked out left and right by guys like Tarver, Johnson,Green,Lebedev and somehow these guys think hes the H2H best ever, i love Roy but hes becoming the most overrated fighter in boxing.


Kids dont do drugs


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> Exactly the kinds of things that happen when a fighter can't keep his poise in a rough fight with an award opponent.
> 
> Turpin was also awkward, as were several other of Robinson's standout opponents (i.e: Fullmer).


You puttin money down on Turpin against Roy? You hopin Roy smashes Turpin into the ground like he did Griffin that he disqualifies himself?


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Kids dont do drugs


Says the crackbaby posting with a needle hanging from his arm :lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> Exactly the kinds of things that happen when a fighter can't keep his poise in a rough fight with an award opponent.
> 
> Turpin was also awkward, as were several other of Robinson's standout opponents (i.e: Fullmer).


The only thing awkward about Turpin was how bad his technique was. Standing with your gloves at your chest and pulling straight back would get you murdered by a counter puncher like Roy Jones.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

turbotime said:


> The only thing awkward about Turpin was how bad his technique was. Standing with your gloves at your chest and pulling straight back would get you murdered by a counter puncher like Roy Jones.


Every pre-fight indication was that Roy would murder Griffin as well. If that fight hadn't taken place, you would also be scoffing at any notion that Griffin could ever trouble Roy.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> Every pre-fight indication was that Roy would murder Griffin as well. If that fight hadn't taken place, you would also be scoffing at any notion that Griffin could ever trouble Roy.


Jones was winning the fight atsch


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Jones was winning the fight atsch


Not only winning but on his way to a stoppage win

Fight 2 he obliterates Griffin


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Not only winning but on his way to a stoppage win
> 
> Fight 2 he obliterates Griffin


At the time of the DQ Jones was probably ahead by 3 or 4 points.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> You puttin money down on Turpin against Roy? You hopin Roy smashes Turpin into the ground like he did Griffin that he disqualifies himself?


Turpin has proven he can successfully spoil an ultra-talented fighter.

Jones has shown he can be spoiled, even by a non-great.

Are you guaranteeing that Roy never, ever gets frustrated even in the slightest by Turpin, contrary to what we've seen from both of them?


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

turbotime said:


> At the time of the DQ Jones was probably ahead by 3 or 4 points.


He was actually down in one card and ahead by one point in another and by two in third one,hardly the performance of a H2H GOAT against a smaller fighter with no power.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> oh damn that would have sucked :lol: I put a lot of work into my Boxer's purse thread


And your username. It would have been awful. Just letting you know.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> Turpin has proven he can successfully spoil an ultra-talented fighter.
> 
> Jones has shown he can be spoiled, even by a non-great.
> 
> Are you guaranteeing that Roy never, ever gets frustrated even in the slightest by Turpin, contrary to what we've seen from both of them?


Id pick Roy by early stoppage.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> And your username. It would have been awful. Just letting you know.


:yep well thanks for double checking the profile before u deleted it


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> :yep well thanks for double checking the profile before u deleted it


Yeah I was trying to delete the thread you reported. These spambots are crazy.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> He was actually down in one card and ahead by one point in another and by two in third one,hardly the performance of a H2H GOAT against a smaller fighter with no power.


Youre an idiot. So Marquez isnt an ATG because he struggled with Juan diaz and got dropped by Katsidis? Sit down euro.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Jones was winning the fight atsch


Point being? Are you saying this to imply that he wasn't troubled by Griffin?



turbotime said:


> At the time of the DQ Jones was probably ahead by 3 or 4 points.


No he wasn't.

None of them judges had him "3 or 4" points ahead - he was ahead by only a point on one card and actually behind on another.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> He was actually down in one card and ahead by one point in another and by two in third one,hardly the performance of a H2H GOAT against a smaller fighter with no power.


But with the 2nd knockdown in round 9 that's another point or so.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> Point being? Are you saying this to imply that he wasn't troubled by Griffin?
> 
> No he wasn't.
> 
> None of them judges had him "3 or 4" points ahead - he was ahead by only a point on one card and actually behind on another.


Yes because judges never get it wrong especially when viewing a fight where one guy is supposed to annihilate the other but doesnt

Ala Patterson vs Maxim discussion i had with the unemployed portugues kid


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Youre an idiot. So Marquez isnt an ATG because he struggled with Juan diaz and got dropped by Katsidis? Sit down euro.


You're too busy trying to find your baby dick to take a pick and sent to an ugly ass immigrant mother of two, you're so frustrated with it that you cant even read straight, where did i said Roy isnt an ATG?

I'll wait bitch :bart


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> Turpin has proven he can successfully spoil an ultra-talented fighter.
> 
> Jones has shown he can be spoiled, even by a non-great.
> 
> Are you guaranteeing that Roy never, ever gets frustrated even in the slightest by Turpin, contrary to what we've seen from both of them?


Robinson is not Roy Jones. They are totally different fighters. Ray isn't that great of a counter puncher he is more of a stalking boxer puncher, whereas Roy is more fleet-footed and counter-striker.

I'd take Roy by a mid rounds stoppage.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Id pick Roy by early stoppage.


And what was your prediction heading into the 1st Griffin fight?


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Ala Patterson vs Maxim discussion i had with the unemployed portugues kid


The unemploeyd portuguese kid doesnt need to work hes his own boss, think of him spending most of his days at the beach enjoying life while your modern day slave ass has to work 12 hours shifts just to break even. now get of my nuts before i call your master :lol:


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> You're too busy trying to find your baby dick to take a pick and sent to an ugly ass immigrant mother of two, you're so frustrated with it that you cant even read straight, where did i said Roy isnt an ATG?
> 
> I'll wait bitch :bart


Stop stalkin my threads freshie.

Questioning Jones H2H ability because he sleep walked against Montell Griffin before battering him to the ground would be like denigrating Marquez because e struggled with lesser fighters before battering them into the ground

Quite frankly youre a moron if you dont recognize Roys ability eurofag


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

Roy didnt had any excuse but it seems his nutthuggers have plenty.


----------



## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Robinson is not Roy Jones. They are totally different fighters. Ray isn't that great of a counter puncher he is more of a stalking boxer puncher, whereas Roy is more fleet-footed and counter-striker.
> 
> I'd take Roy by a mid rounds stoppage.


Agreed.

I'm all for fighters from past generations beating guys from the current era if they're good enough, but Jones is a different animal to most people, from any era. He beats Turpin.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> The unemploeyd portuguese kid doesnt need to work hes his own boss, think of him spending most of his days at the beach enjoying life while your modern day slave ass has to work 12 hours shifts just to break even. now get of my nuts before i call your master :lol:


I work hard for mah money. Its why i have a bachelors and get to go to Japan for 3 months paid for. Ya DiiiiG?


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Stop stalkin my threads freshie.
> 
> Questioning Jones H2H ability because he sleep walked against Montell Griffin before battering him to the ground would be like denigrating Marquez because e struggled with lesser fighters before battering them into the ground
> 
> Quite frankly youre a moron if you dont recognize Roys ability eurofag


I'm still waiting where did i said Roy isnt an ATG?

Stop looking for your baby dick and go look for the post where i said that.

Like i said i'll wait :bart


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

O59 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I'm all for fighters from past generations beating guys from the current era if they're good enough, but Jones is a different animal to most people, from any era. He beats Turpin.


No offense to Turpin either, but the whole "jab, hold, pull straight back" would get him hurt.

It's hurting my brain people comparing him to Griffin, not that Griffin is an ATG or even HOF, just different styles completely.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Yes because judges never get it wrong especially when viewing a fight where one guy is supposed to annihilate the other but doesnt


Judges are probably more likely to be swayed by a big money-making name than a lively underdog.

Either way, what makes the judges wrong in this case? It was a close, competitive fight through 8 rounds and generally acknowledged as such, by judges, commentators, and viewers alike.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> I'm still waiting where did i said Roy isnt an ATG?
> 
> Stop looking for your baby dick and go look for the post where i said that.
> 
> Like i said i'll wait :bart


Lol you little portuguese weasel, when did i say you said Roy wasnt an ATG?


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> Judges are probably more likely to be swayed by a big money-making name than a lively underdog.
> 
> Either way, what makes the judges wrong in this case? It was a close, competitive fight through 8 rounds and generally acknowledged as such, by judges, commentators, and viewers alike.


And what happened after the 8th?


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> I work hard for mah money. Its why i have a bachelors and get to go to Japan for 3 months paid for. Ya DiiiiG?


You're a modern day slave that has to work 12 hours a day.

You have guy telling you what to do, probably some white dude.

Its like Tupac said "Real N#### do what they want , Bitch N#### do what they told."

We all know which one you are :lol:


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> And what happened after the 8th?


Roy lost.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> Roy lost.


Why did Roy lose?


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> > Again, it's another assumption on your friend's behalf.
> 
> 
> Well considering he knew Ezzard for over 30 years and saw his career ark from his prime to the very end when he was shot to bits and up until his death in 75`, I`d say his opinion carry`s some weight. And since other people in Ezzard`s circle had alluded to as much I`ll give him a pass to a certain extent.
> ...


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Lol you little portuguese weasel, when did i say you said Roy wasnt an ATG?





MichiganWarrior said:


> Youre an idiot. So Marquez isnt an ATG because he struggled with Juan diaz and got dropped by Katsidis? Sit down euro.


Here bitch ass modern day slave you just used Marquez as an example to what you thought i was saying about Roy, Dumbass bitch no wonder you need to have a guy yelling orders at you all day everyday.:lol:


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> You're a modern day slave that has to work 12 hours a day.
> 
> You have guy telling you what to do, probably some white dude.
> 
> ...


Yes the unemployed and the lazy usually dont have bosses. Although your country is pretty much a welfare state that takes its orders from Germany.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> Here bitch ass modern day slave you just used Marquez as an example to what you thought i was saying about Roy, Dumbass bitch no wonder you need to have a guy yelling orders at you all day everyday.:lol:


again when did i say you said Roy wasnt an ATG Pepe?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> turbotime said:
> 
> 
> > Well considering he knew Ezzard for over 30 years and saw his career ark from his prime to the very end when he was shot to bits and up until his death in 75`, I`d say his opinion carry`s some weight. And since other people in Ezzard`s circle had alluded to as much I`ll give him a pass to a certain extent.
> ...


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Yes the unemployed and the lazy usually dont have bosses. Although your country is pretty much a welfare state that takes its orders from Germany.


I dont give a shit about my country baby dick ******, i only care about myself and my family and i cant complain, i do whatever i want to do when i want to. you on the other hand have to work twelve hour shifts probably with one of those gag balls in your mouth and a dildo up your ass while some white dude yells at your fat ass to go faster.:lol:


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> again when did i say you said Roy wasnt an ATG Pepe?


So if i didnt said why you bitchin? you jealous bitch? its not my fault that you have to resort to take pics of your dick just to try to get into the pants of some bootleg cheap 5 dollar immigrant whore or that you have to work like a modern day slave to pay off the college you failed to finish, be mad at you or your mother for not going for an abortion dont get mad at me for your failures bitch :lol:


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Why did Roy lose?


He blatantly fouled him.


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Raging B(_)LL said:
> 
> 
> > > You really riding the excuse train all the way to town aren't you :lol: And you say Mayweather cherry picks his fights but it's ok for Ray because he fought on a different side of the country atsch
> ...


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> turbotime said:
> 
> 
> > Raging B(_)LL said:
> ...


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> turbotime said:
> 
> 
> > Raging B(_)LL said:
> ...


----------



## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

dyna said:


> Bernard barely dehydrated.
> Against Roy he was 163 pounds, those 3 pounds he could have gotten back from a big meal and a good drink.
> 
> Do you really think a man with the longetivity of Hopkins was a drainer?


There is zero proof he was 163 in the ring for that fight. It's unlikely as his first career fight was at 175.


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Raging B(_)LL said:
> 
> 
> > turbotime said:
> ...


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

dyna said:


> Raging B(_)LL said:
> 
> 
> > turbotime said:
> ...


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> turbotime said:
> 
> 
> > Raging B(_)LL said:
> ...


----------



## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> You're a modern day slave that has to work 12 hours a day.
> 
> *You have guy telling you what to do, probably some white dude.*
> 
> ...


This is a real silly and immature post.


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Raging B(_)LL said:
> 
> 
> > turbotime said:
> ...


----------



## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

I see what Blade Runner is trying to say in his posts, it's pretty obvious.

"Modern day slave."

"Taking orders from a white man."

This is clearly a racist trying to (not so) subtly call a black person a slave, in a bad way.

Disgusting. I never did like the guy, always came off as fake when I saw him post in ESB.


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> I see what Blade Runner is trying to say in his posts, it's pretty obvious.
> 
> "Modern day slave."
> 
> ...


crycrycrycrycrycry

Cry me a fucking river.

If you dont like it report it or put me on ignore.

And MW is not black hes white.

I kept the same ESB nick here.

You're the one that changed yours.

If anyone's fake is your butthurt ass.

Now dont be a groupie keep it movin :deal


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

This was a fun thread till you motherfuckers got all serious. I'll just blame tommygun.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Raging B(_)LL said:


> turbotime said:
> 
> 
> > Raging B(_)LL said:
> ...


----------



## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Name one fighter from Robinson's ledger that beats Roy Jones.


I don't know if that kind of question proves anything But it does go with my Duran comparisons of who did he beat. Could Robinson have beaten Hearns opponents Duran,Benitez,Cuevas and Hill? Probably not. Then again name a guy I think might beat Jones on the ledger of Robinson? Joey Maxim. You didn't say who Robinson beat but on his ledger. By the same way, can we really say Tarver would have beaten Robinson? Or are the post Ruiz opponents off limits?


----------



## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> crycrycrycrycrycry
> 
> Cry me a fucking river.
> 
> ...


What's with all the posts saying "Taking orders from a white man"? Who cares about the color? Only some one immature.

And I am a 2006 poster from Boxingscene, not ESB. I have about 500 posts on ESB from 2009-present. I came to this site because I like it better than ESB. The little time I spent there I saw how obnoxious you are, being a 2004(?) poster, one would think you'd be one of the more matured and cool-headed posters. You were far from that.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MAG1965 said:


> I don't know if that kind of question proves anything But it does go with my Duran comparisons of who did he beat. Could Robinson have beaten Hearns opponents Duran,Benitez,Cuevas and Hill? Probably not. Then again name a guy I think might beat Jones on the ledger of Robinson? Joey Maxim. You didn't say who Robinson beat but on his ledger. By the same way, can we really say Tarver would have beaten Robinson? Or are the post Ruiz opponents off limits?


What? Ray would knock Duran's head off. Cuevas? :lol:

Who did Cuevas beat that gives you the slightest sense he could hang with Robinson? Very odd post from you.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

SouthPaw said:


> There is zero proof he was 163 in the ring for that fight. It's unlikely as his first career fight was at 175.






3:20

Roy is talking how Hopkins isn't above 166.
No proof of my 163 number but 6 pounds isn't much drained weight either.
Onwards from 6:45 Roy said he was much bigger than Hopkins, that he could beat him up with one hand because he was so much bigger.

Not that much proof but maybe if I have some more time anytime soon I can watch more of his stuff looking for commentary that is backing my words up.
Also I don't see much reason for Roy to lie about Hopkins weight.


----------



## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

dyna said:


> 3:20
> 
> Roy is talking how Hopkins isn't above 166.
> No proof of my 163 number but 6 pounds isn't much drained weight either.
> ...


Again, that was Roy being ROy. He was always going to make an excuse for Hopkins because that's one of his biggest wins.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

turbotime said:


> What? Ray would knock Duran's head off. Cuevas? :lol:
> 
> Who did Cuevas beat that gives you the slightest sense he could hang with Robinson? Very odd post from you.


 @Hands of Iron I need back up here because this is weird.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

SouthPaw said:


> Again, that was Roy being ROy. That rivalry goes back years. He was always going to make an excuse for Hopkins because that's one of his biggest wins.


Why would he make an excuse for Hopkins when it would be better legacywise for Roy if Hopkins was closer in weight rather than straight admitting he was much bigger?
Doesn't seem to make that much sense.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> This was a fun thread till you motherfuckers got all serious. I'll just blame tommygun.


hahahaha, not my fault


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Trolling about SRR is fun as hell :lol:


----------



## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

dyna said:


> Why would he make an excuse for Hopkins when it would be better legacywise for Roy if Hopkins was closer in weight rather than straight admitting he was much bigger?
> Doesn't seem to make that much sense.


Legacy doesn't give a shit if you both were the same weight. Lamotta gets full credit for beating Robinson despite being way heavier(and he deserves it)


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Trolling about SRR is fun as hell :lol:


I posted on my twitter Money was a better boxer than Ali holy shit people were pissed :lol: I was literally taking a crap as I posted it


----------



## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> What? Ray would knock Duran's head off. Cuevas? :lol:
> 
> Who did Cuevas beat that gives you the slightest sense he could hang with Robinson? Very odd post from you.


yeah I suppose it was odd. It is more about styles of fights, and the fact is that I doubt Robinson would beat them more thourougly than Hearns did.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MAG1965 said:


> yeah I suppose it was odd. It is more about styles of fights, and the fact is that I doubt Robinson would beat them more thourougly than Hearns did.


Cuevas/Robinson is possibly one of the most one sided beatdowns a H2H matchup could ask for.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

SouthPaw said:


> Legacy doesn't give a shit if you both were the same weight. Lamotta gets full credit for beating Robinson despite being way heavier(and he deserves it)


If Lamotta beat a man like Danny Garcia he wouldn't get much credit because he was way heavier.
He gets the credit because p4p Robinson is one of the best of all time, if Robinson was just some average welterweight Lamotta would have never gotten credit.

Edit:I'm not calling Garcia average, he's good but not the kind of good that can beat way bigger men who are also good.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> I posted on my twitter Money was a better boxer than Ali holy shit people were pissed :lol: I was literally taking a crap as I posted it


:rofl man I would make a thread like that, but I'm afraid people would take me too seriously. When I made my thread about Ray before, I wanted it to sound serious so it wasn't a dead give away though


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> @Hands of Iron I need back up here because this is weird.


I'm behind you.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> :rofl man I would make a thread like that, but I'm afraid people would take me too seriously. When I made my thread about Ray before, I wanted it to sound serious so it wasn't a dead give away though


People get way too worked up over what is "the Best" vs "the most accomplished"

There are tangibles involved that people don't realize when discussing #TBE :yep


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> I posted on my twitter Money was a better boxer than Ali holy shit people were pissed :lol: I was literally taking a crap as I posted it


He is better boxer than Ali lol. :yep

You guys should leave my hero alone and run with that instead.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> He is better boxer than Ali lol. :yep
> 
> *You guys *should leave my hero alone and run with that instead.


:verysad


----------



## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

dyna said:


> If Lamotta beat a man like Danny Garcia he wouldn't get much credit because he was way heavier.
> He gets the credit because p4p Robinson is one of the best of all time, if Robinson was just some average welterweight Lamotta would have never gotten credit.
> 
> Edit:I'm not calling Garcia average, he's good but not the kind of good that can beat way bigger men who are also good.


Hopkins is one of the best MWs ever.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

SouthPaw said:


> Hopkins is one of the best MWs ever.


Point taken there.
Guess I'll just have to find proof of Hopkins his fightnight weight in another fight rather than Roy his commentary


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :verysad


Explain? :verysad


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

You guys :-(


----------



## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

How many fighters can say they were the greatest of all-time in two weight divisions?

How many can say they knocked a fighter like Gene Fullmer out cold - with a single punch?

How many can say they _toyed _with a fighter as great as Kid Gavilan?

I'm going with Robinson here. He *was* the greater fighter. Whether he would do better H2H against Jones' opponents or how Roy would do against his is irrelevant to me in deciding a fighter's greatness. It's all subjective and you're comparing two men fighting in two utterly different conditions. One has the advantage of 24-hour weigh-ins, taking breaks for months between fights, and has the opportunity to peak for fight-night after a long training camp.

The other weighed-in the day of the fight, was competing every other month and had to be in optimum shape maybe two or three weeks after a difficult battle and _still_ looked excellent while doing it.

I can see why people consider Jones flat out better, but I'm always gonna say the same thing in these sort of threads unless it's Robinson up against Harry Greb.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> You guys :-(


:lol: I didnt mean it like that. Dont hurt me. White americans are the minority on this forum.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol: I didnt mean it like that. Dont hurt me. White americans are the minority on this forum.


Then behave :nono


----------



## Abraham (May 9, 2013)

Prime Jones wouldn't have lost a round against any fighter in SRR's era.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)




----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Then behave :nono


The 29th is tomorrow.


----------



## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

RJJ and ATG, but Robinson never tuned into a jello-jaw like Jones did.


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

How did this became racial. Both guys are black; Ray fought as many (probably more) non white guys than z Roy. 

Turpin, Armstrong, Gavilan, Basora, Tiger Wade, Tommy Bell, Jackie Wilson, costner, young Gene Buffalo, Henry brimm, Ray barnes.

off the top of my head


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Abraham said:


> Prime Jones wouldn't have lost a round against any fighter in SRR's era.


okay I definitely think Robinson is ALOT greater than Jones, but this is fucking ridiculous. If Jones fought in SRR's era he would be among the best, probably top 5 or 10.


----------



## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

On basis on resume, no contest, Robbie. But RJJ would do well in SRR's era too, but any atg would be good in any era... I mean they are called ATG for a reason.

With that said, this is not a fair poll, mainly because we don't have film on SRR when he was in his absolute prime... but we do have tape on RJJ in his absolute prime. So if we are going by that, then ofc RJJ looks better -- SRR's prime was when he was at 147... we only have seen him at MW and so on.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

LittleRed said:


> *How did this became racial.* Both guys are black; Ray fought as many (probably more) non white guys than z Roy.
> 
> Turpin, Armstrong, Gavilan, Basora, Tiger Wade, Tommy Bell, Jackie Wilson, costner, young Gene Buffalo, Henry brimm, Ray barnes.
> 
> off the top of my head


:lol:


----------



## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

turbotime said:


>


Damn man, this going to make me cry nucca.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

@LittleRed It became racial about right here:



turbotime said:


> Randy Turpin.





turbotime said:


> Exactly. If Roy Jones fought a ton of white boy plodders too he'd be recognized as the GOAT as well.


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

For shame. @turbotime should know better. Maybe he does...


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

He does. :lol:

I'm equally guilty, just didn't kick start this one.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> Damn man, this going to make me cry nucca.


Beautiful though right :yep


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Snitches up in here :verysad


----------



## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Cuevas/Robinson is possibly one of the most one sided beatdowns a H2H matchup could ask for.


I cannot argue with this. Probably a 5 or 6th round knockout. Although I do think Hearns is one of the toughest fights for Robinson more at about 154 and if Tommy fights a smart fightl like Benitez.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MAG1965 said:


> I cannot argue with this. Probably a 5 or 6th round knockout. Although I do think Hearns is one of the toughest fights for Robinson more at about 154 and if Tommy fights a smart fightl like Benitez.


Tommy is a H2H monster as well :deal


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> I posted on my twitter Money was a better boxer than Ali holy shit people were pissed :lol: I was literally taking a crap as I posted it


because you're wrong, there's literally no way to say mayweather is better


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> because you're wrong, there's literally no way to say mayweather is better


technically superior yes.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> technically superior yes.


but lots of fighters have great technique, that's not what makes fighters great. you're not really saying anything new here. Ali's technique was not his strong point. Anyone who leans back from punches with his hands down like that obviously doesn't have the best technique. everybody knows Ali is better overall.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> but lots of fighters have great technique, that's not what makes fighters great. you're not really saying anything new here. Ali's technique was not his strong point. Anyone who leans back from punches with his hands down like that obviously doesn't have the best technique. everybody knows Ali is better overall.


He ranks higher but in terms of on film I see Floyd with the better stuff is all.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Ray isn't that great of a counter puncher he is more of a stalking boxer puncher, whereas Roy is more fleet-footed and counter-striker.


I can't agree with that assessment - yes, Robinson is certainly more aggressive and more willing to take chances, but to say he "isn't that great of a counter puncher" isn't accurate either. He has shown quick feet and very good counterpunching ability in several of his fights, such as the title fight with LaMotta.

Either way, trying to counterpunch Turpin could potentially turn out even worse for Roy. Turpin may leave a lot of theoretical openings, but so did Griffin - the question is whether Roy is willing to step in and take advantage of them. While trying to time Griffin, Roy ended up getting outworked in several rounds and lured into sucker punches. Turpin was probably even more awkward and unpredictable than Griffin, and had more power behind his punches as well.



turbotime said:


> No offense to Turpin either, but the whole "jab, hold, pull straight back" would get him hurt.


Griffin pulled straight back a lot against Roy, and generally left a lot of openings for Roy to take advantages of, but Roy was too tentative to step in with his punches and follow through on a lot of those openings.



turbotime said:


> It's hurting my brain people comparing him to Griffin, not that Griffin is an ATG or even HOF, just different styles completely.


Their strategies weren't radically different - they lured the more talented fighter into coming forward, then surprised him with unpredictable bursts. Both of them scored well with the jab and got away with a lot of looping punches because the more talented fighter had so much trouble trying to predict their attacks.

Still, if you want to see an opponent who more closely resembles Griffin, try Holley Mims.


----------



## Bladerunner (Oct 22, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Snitches up in here :verysad


Bitches can dish it but cant take it.:deal


----------



## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

Sugar Ray Robinson.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> I can't agree with that assessment - yes, Robinson is certainly more aggressive and more willing to take chances, but to say he "isn't that great of a counter puncher" isn't accurate either. He has shown quick feet and very good counterpunching ability in several of his fights, such as the title fight with LaMotta.


Sorry, I can agree with this.



> Either way, trying to counterpunch Turpin could potentially turn out even worse for Roy. Turpin may leave a lot of theoretical openings, but so did Griffin - the question is whether Roy is willing to step in and take advantage of them. While trying to time Griffin, Roy ended up getting outworked in several rounds and lured into sucker punches. Turpin was probably even more awkward and unpredictable than Griffin, and had more power behind his punches as well.


Roy was winning that fight until Griffin took a dive. He had already had Griffin down and stunned too. I doubt Turpin could have beaten a fighter like Griffin or Toney.



> Griffin pulled straight back a lot against Roy, and generally left a lot of openings for Roy to take advantages of, but Roy was too tentative to step in with his punches and follow through on a lot of those openings.


So tentative that he stopped him in 2 minutes. Like I said before, Jones was on his way to winning the fight before the dive.



> They're strategies weren't radically different - they lured the more talented fighter into coming forward, then surprised him with unpredictable bursts. Both of them scored well with the jab and got away with a lot of looping punches because the more talented fighter had so much trouble trying to predict their attacks.
> 
> Still, if you want to see an opponent who more closely resembles Griffin, try Holley Mims.


Great shout on Mims, very slick. Much slicker than Turpin that is for sure.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Bladerunner said:


> Bitches can dish it but cant take it.:deal


:yep :-(


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Snitches up in here :verysad


:rofl

It's only on the first page of the thread.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :rofl
> 
> It's only on the first page of the thread.


:nono


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Roy was winning that fight until Griffin took a dive.


He wasn't "winning until Griffin took a dive," he had been behind early in the fight and had only just pulled ahead on two of the official cards at the time in which he lost the fight. Even then he was still behind on one of the judges' cards and at least two of the commentators' cards.

Griffin fairly clearly won at least four rounds and did enough to be given one or two of the closer rounds. The best Roy deserved was to be ahead by a point heading into the 9th round (4 rounds apiece, with an extra point for the KD in round 7), and more realistically he probably should've been behind by a point or two.

I don't know what "taking a dive" is supposed to mean in this case? The guy had his head spun around by a blatant foul (_two_ fouls, to be exact).



turbotime said:


> He had already had Griffin down and stunned too.


And each time, Griffin came back to win the next round (or several rounds) clearly. Dropping or stunning him did not guarantee that the result was a forgone conclusion.



turbotime said:


> I doubt Turpin could have beaten a fighter like Griffin or Toney.


Why not? Griffin wasn't all that spectacular, and Toney has lost (officially and unofficially) against even lesser fighters than Turpin.



turbotime said:


> So tentative that he stopped him in 2 minutes.


You mean 9 rounds + 2 minutes. And yes, he was tentative enough that he needed _two_ fights and an official loss before he came through with a win.



turbotime said:


> Like I said before, Jones was on his way to winning the fight before the dive.


This is exactly the kind of speculation that you criticized earlier in this thread.

You may have been confident that Roy was "on his way to winning," but _Roy himself_ wasn't - he was still frustrated enough to blatantly foul a guy even at a moment in the fight when he had the upper hand.


----------



## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

I still know who's better. And I'm still not sayin'.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> He wasn't "winning until Griffin took a dive," he had been behind early in the fight and had only just pulled ahead on two of the official cards at the time in which he lost the fight. Even then he was still behind on one of the judges' cards and at least two of the commentators' cards.
> 
> Griffin fairly clearly won at least four rounds and did enough to be given one or two of the closer rounds. The best Roy deserved was to be ahead by a point heading into the 9th round (4 rounds apiece, with an extra point for the KD in round 7), and more realistically he probably should've been behind by a point or two.
> 
> ...


Several rounds clearly? You need to watch the fight and come back.

And what was so special about Turpin? Turpin did nothing at light heavyweight and lost to far lesser fighters than Griffin and Toney. Turpin may have been "awkward" but in the worst way possible. Griffin is just a better boxer. I know you don't like Roy but you're starting to chat shit. Roy was on his way to winning.

Take the point away for the foul, he still would've been up.


----------



## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

Sugar Ray Robinson!!!! End of thread...


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Several rounds clearly? You need to watch the fight and come back.
> 
> And what was so special about Turpin? Turpin did nothing at light heavyweight and lost to far lesser fighters than Griffin and Toney. Turpin may have been "awkward" but in the worst way possible. Griffin is just a better boxer. I know you don't like Roy but you're starting to chat shit. Roy was on his way to winning.
> 
> Take the point away for the foul, he still would've been up.


You're just ranting now. Roy was clearly outscored in rounds 2, 3, 4, and 8. I can "watch the fight and come back" and he'll still have lost those rounds. Even the scorecards that had Roy winning acknowledged that fact. If you can't acknowledge it either, then you're just not being honest about what happened in the fight.

Turpin "doing nothing" at LHW is also inaccurate - he was a rated contender there several times throughout the '50s. He was every bit as credible at that weight as Drake Thadzi was, and probably moreso than Dave Tiberi ever was at _any_ weight. And in addition to being awkward, he was also strong, rangy, and could hit - all traits that Griffin lacked.

Accusing me of "chatting shit" is rather hypocritical, given that you're the one who started this discussion by making an absurd claim that no one among Robinson's 100-plus opponents (including numerous HOFers) could ever beat Roy.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> You're just ranting now. Roy was clearly outscored in rounds 2, 3, 4, and 8. I can "watch the fight and come back" and he'll still have lost those rounds. Even the scorecards that had Roy winning acknowledged that fact. If you can't acknowledge it either, then you're just not being honest about what happened in the fight.
> 
> Turpin "doing nothing" at LHW is also inaccurate - he was a rated contender there several times throughout the '50s. In addition to being awkward, he was also strong, rangy, and could hit - all traits that Griffin lacked.
> 
> Accusing me of "chatting shit" is rather hypocritical, given that you're the one who started this discussion by making an absurd claim that no one among Robinson's 100-plus opponents (including numerous HOFers) could ever beat Roy.


Give Griffin 4 rounds all you want, he'd be behind and on his way to losing since Jones was touching, dropping and hurting him as the fight went on :deal.

Being rated as a contender means doing something at the weight all of a sudden..... :conf


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Give Griffin 4 rounds all you want, he'd be behind and on his way to losing since Jones was touching, dropping and hurting him as the fight went on :deal.


Again, using the same sort of speculation that you criticized earlier in this thread. If Roy was "on his way" then he should've followed through on it, instead of fouling himself into a loss.



turbotime said:


> Being rated as a contender means doing something at the weight all of a sudden..... :conf


He earned his rating by KOing other rated contenders.

Again, what had Thadzi done heading into his fight with Toney? What did Tiberi do at any weight, ever?


----------

