# Eddie Hearn Offers Wilder Flat Fee of $12.5m To Fight Anthony Joshua



## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Has 48 hours to accept :rofl

Parker got around £8 million which is around the same as they are offering Wilder lol

More people watched Lara vs Hurd than Joshua vs Parker in USA. It doesn't have to be 60-40 but they have to at least offer Wilder $20, they negotiated with Parker for weeks but are given Wilder 48 hours for one of the biggest HW fights ever, Hearn will stall it til 2019

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/...fered-flat-fee-88m-fight-anthony-joshua-will/


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I guess this is the attempt to duck the fight. I figured this would happen. They'd pretend like they want it and then offer some bullshit.

edit: Schaefer knows the deal


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

I suspect this will be a 'take-it-or-leave-it offer' until the next 'take-it-or-leave-it offer'.

Then again, that's assuming both parties actually want the fight - and I for one sure hope they do, because I want to see it.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Gay.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Gay.


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## UK fight fan (Apr 22, 2016)

If Wilder doesn't take it, it's a duck. Like when Pacquiao ducked that flat fee from Mayweather :deal


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

UK fight fan said:


> If Wilder doesn't take it, it's a duck. Like when Pacquiao ducked that flat fee from Mayweather :deal


Both camps will look to make as much as they can. They would be fools not to.

This negotiation is probably far from over.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Huge career high pay day for Wilder which is all he should be really getting, shouldn't even be talk of a split if we are being realistic, the PPV in America on at UK time will be small, it won't generate the kind of revenue they are talking about. 

He will duck and fight Brezeale.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> Huge career high pay day for Wilder which is all he should be really getting, shouldn't even be talk of a split if we are being realistic, the PPV in America on at UK time will be small, it won't generate the kind of revenue they are talking about.
> 
> He will duck and fight Brezeale.


Eddie Hearn has been the one making the big dollar projections for the fight and his finger is a bit closer to the pulse than people guessing from the comfort of boxing forums.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


>


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> Huge career high pay day for Wilder which is all he should be really getting, shouldn't even be talk of a split if we are being realistic, the PPV in America on at UK time will be small, it won't generate the kind of revenue they are talking about.
> 
> He will duck and fight Brezeale.


So Wilder should take less than Parker?


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> So Wilder should take less than Parker?


He should accept anything higher than a career high pay day, I'm sure his team will be able to budge it up a bit. This is the reality of a fight between two fighters who are worlds apart in terms of commercial appeal and drawing power.

Who you got, Wilder or Brezeale?


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> He should accept anything higher than a career high pay day,


Why?

Should Joshua also be happy to accept "anything higher than a career high pay day" to fight Wilder?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> He should accept anything higher than a career high pay day, I'm sure his team will be able to budge it up a bit. This is the reality of a fight between two fighters who are worlds apart in terms of commercial appeal and drawing power.
> 
> Who you got, Wilder or Brezeale?


So Wilder should accept 2.2 million if offered?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> Why?
> 
> Should Joshua also be happy to accept "anything higher than a career high pay day" to fight Wilder?


Parker got 33%-35% to fight Joshua. Wilder is easily a much bigger draw than Parker. Based off that, Wilder should be getting around 40% most likely.

If I was Wilder, I'd ask for 35% just to get the fight made and the total revenue generated from the event will bring him over $12.5 million and still give Joshua his biggest payday.


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## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

So is anybody opposed to a Wilder-Ortiz rematch


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> So Wilder should accept 2.2 million if offered?


Of course not, and anyone suggesting he should hasn't got a clue.

The reality is this is big business and both camps will be looking to make as much as they can out of the fight, and not a dollar less.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> So Wilder should take less than Parker?


Does Wilder have the WBO belt?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

dyna said:


> Does Wilder have the WBO belt?


no :sad2


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## Boxalot (Jun 5, 2013)

A few facts for those moaning about the offer:

1) It’s 6x more than Wilder’s highest purse.
2) It’s significantly more than he brings to the table.
3) It’s $12.5million more than Wilder has offered to AJ.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> So Wilder should accept 2.2 million if offered?


That's his career high pay day? My god.

Tell that fool to sign the fucking papers.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> That's his career high pay day? My god.
> 
> Tell that fool to sign the fucking papers.


He'd be a fool if he does sign it.

Early days in this negotiation, I suspect. More money there to be had for Wilder, and I'n guessing Finkel will eek it out before they sign.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Parker got 33%-35% to fight Joshua. Wilder is easily a much bigger draw than Parker. Based off that, Wilder should be getting around 40% most likely.
> 
> If I was Wilder, I'd ask for 35% just to get the fight made and the total revenue generated from the event will bring him over $12.5 million and still give Joshua his biggest payday.


Rubbish, Wilder isn't a much bigger draw than anyone. The fight will be in the UK, AJ is responsible for that PPV sale and will sell around the same against any top contender, Wilder will add barely anything. If they put it on US PPV at UK time how much do you think it sells?

He has no power here, Joshua will want to control the event, Wilder has no business rejecting a flat feet that 6x higher than his highest purse, it's not Hearn and AJ's fault that Wilder isn't a draw and has no negotiating power.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> He'd be a fool if he does sign it.
> 
> Early days in this negotiation, I suspect. More money to be had for Wilder I suspect, and Finkel will eek it out before they sign.


He might be able to squeeze a bit more out of them but if you think there's going to be a much higher offer you are kidding your self. This offer reflects what each fighters brings to the table.


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## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

Listen to that crowd yell "Wilder". To believe Wilder isn't a bigger draw than anyone is sticking your head in the sand.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> He might be able to squeeze a bit more out of them but if you think there's going to be a much higher offer you are kidding your self. This offer reflects what each fighters brings to the table.


Arguing amounts and percentages here is a waste of time and energy.

The offer will have to reflect what Wilder wants or he won't accept it.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

It's going to be interesting reading this thread. Let's see who previously championed flat fee offers that now think this is unreasonable.


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## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

12.5 is low.

Nobody is serious about making this fight next.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> Rubbish, Wilder isn't a much bigger draw than anyone. The fight will be in the UK, AJ is responsible for that PPV sale and will sell around the same against any top contender, Wilder will add barely anything. If they put it on US PPV at UK time how much do you think it sells?
> 
> He has no power here, Joshua will want to control the event, Wilder has no business rejecting a flat feet that 6x higher than his highest purse, it's not Hearn and AJ's fault that Wilder isn't a draw and has no negotiating power.


Your bias is astonishing. You think Wilder isn't a bigger draw than Parker? Nobody I knew even gave a shit about that fight and assumed Parker was a bum. In fact here in America, I know more people who know Wilder than Joshua. Their ratings on Showtime reflect that.

That's not to say this is a 50/50 split, but giving Wilder a lesser percentage than Parker is an attempt to just avoid the fight.


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## McKay (Jun 6, 2012)

He earned $2.1 million fighting Ortiz. This is 6 times his highest purse to date but it's a duck by AJ :lol:?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

McKay said:


> He earned $2.1 million fighting Ortiz. This is 6 times his highest purse to date but it's a duck by AJ :lol:?


What was Parker's biggest purse?


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Your bias is astonishing. You think Wilder isn't a bigger draw than Parker? Nobody I knew even gave a shit about that fight and assumed Parker was a bum. In fact here in America, I know more people who know Wilder than Joshua. Their ratings on Showtime reflect that.
> 
> That's not to say this is a 50/50 split, but giving Wilder a lesser percentage than Parker is an attempt to just avoid the fight.


Coming from you :lol:

You prove time and time again you don't understand much about the business. Please explain to me how Wilder's apparent popularity translates into PPV sales, which is ultimately what establishes his worth. I've already asked you this question and you ignored it because you know it doesn't suit your agenda. How many PPV sales does WIlder get against AJ if the fight is in England?

Your obsessed with the idea that AJ is going to duck Wilder, you want that to happen more than the fight and don't shut up about it. You can't control your fanboyism. This is pretty simple, AJ and Hearn hold all the cards, Wilder brings little to the table in terms of revenue and his highest career pay day is $2. Why should they pay him anymore than he is worth, because you think it's unfair? The world doesn't work like that, Wilder is the bitch in these negotiations and has little power to negotiate. He either accepts the 6x career high pay day or he doesn't get the fight.

You didnt answer my other question either, who you got, Wilder or Brezeale?


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Your bias is astonishing. You think Wilder isn't a bigger draw than Parker? Nobody I knew even gave a shit about that fight and assumed Parker was a bum. In fact here in America, I know more people who know Wilder than Joshua. Their ratings on Showtime reflect that.
> 
> That's not to say this is a 50/50 split, but giving Wilder a lesser percentage than Parker is an attempt to just avoid the fight.


Coming from you :lol:

You prove time and time again you don't understand much about the business. Please explain to me how Wilder's apparent popularity translates into PPV sales, which is ultimately what establishes his worth. I've already asked you this question and you ignored it because you know it doesn't suit your agenda. How many PPV sales does WIlder get against AJ if the fight is in England?

Your obsessed with the idea that AJ is going to duck Wilder, you want that to happen more than the fight and don't shut up about it. You can't control your fanboyism. This is pretty simple, AJ and Hearn hold all the cards, Wilder brings little to the table in terms of revenue and his highest career pay day is $2. Why should they pay him anymore than he is worth, because you think it's unfair? The world doesn't work like that, Wilder is the bitch in these negotiations and has little power to negotiate. He either accepts the 6x career high pay day or he doesn't get the fight.

You didnt answer my other question either, who you got, Wilder or Brezeale?


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Wilder asks for 50-50

Fanboy yanks: This is a great negotiating tactic by Wilder

AJ offers him 6x his highest purse

Fanboy yanks: I knew it, AJ is ducking WIlder



:lol:


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> Arguing amounts and percentages here is a waste of time and energy.
> 
> The offer will have to reflect what Wilder wants or he won't accept it.


That's fine, he can go back to earning $2m a fight whilst AJ earns x10 that fighting better opposition.

As you can see, it's obvious who holds the power. I've said on here for ages Wilder isn't in a position to do much negotiation, it's unfortunately going to be a situation where he needs to take what he is given and hope he gets a lucrative rematch. It's not AJ's fault that Wilder doesn't get paid.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> Coming from you :lol:
> 
> You prove time and time again you don't understand much about the business. Please explain to me how Wilder's apparent popularity translates into PPV sales, which is ultimately what establishes his worth. I've already asked you this question and you ignored it because you know it doesn't suit your agenda. How many PPV sales does WIlder get against AJ if the fight is in England?
> 
> ...


I have a masters degree in business, so I'd say I know a good deal.

Wilder would sell a lot more than any other heavyweight would other than Anthony Joshua on ppv. I'm sure a Joseph Parker ppv would bomb against no matter who it was, but Hearn still felt he was worthy of more than 30%.

And I don't want AJ to duck Wilder. I just see all of the signs that it'll happen. You can check my post history and see that I haven't used the word duck to describe this situation recently and was using a sit back and see approach. I posted updates from both sides as things developed just in case things fell apart. I see now that AJ's side aren't that interested after all.

Now I'll shut up for now if you want since Wilder's team sent a counter offer. I want to see Hearn's response to that offer even though he said the deal was "take it or leave it". Maybe this was just Hearn throwing out a low offer intending to negotiate. But the whole, "you have 48 hours to respond" and "take it or leave it" shit is disrespectful. Parker came out asking for a lot of money and Hearn seemed to have a lot more patience making that deal.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> Wilder asks for 50-50
> 
> Fanboy yanks: This is a great negotiating tactic by Wilder
> 
> ...


I always thought Wilder was tripping asking for 50/50.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Anyone know what ratings Wilder vs. Ortiz did in the UK?


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I have a masters degree in business, so I'd say I know a good deal.
> 
> Wilder would sell a lot more than any other heavyweight would other than Anthony Joshua on ppv. I'm sure a Joseph Parker ppv would bomb against no matter who it was, but Hearn still felt he was worthy of more than 30%.
> 
> ...


If you've got a masters in business, why can't you answer my question, how much would Wilder sell on PPV against Joshua in the UK? You need to explain where all this extra revenue is coming from. The UK isn't a huge PPV market, Joshua already sells close to a million against everyone, at best Wilder will add 200k to the UK buyrate. What does it do in America, considering you said hardly anyone knows Joshua and Wilder has NEVER been on PPV? He is completely unproven as a PPV sell. You keep talking about how big of a draw he is, a draw is how many buys you generate, he's never generated a penny on PPV so it's all speculation.

Well there has been no signs that a duck will happen, you are talking rubbish. AJ directly called him out after his fight and has already offered him a 6x career high pay day. You've just done it again 'I see now that AJ's side aren't interested at all' - You do your self no favours, you claim to understand business yet come out with shit like this. You completely ignore that Parker had to negotiate hard for months in order to bump up his pay and the offer to Wilder is not far off what he got.

Wilder and his team will end up running away from this and fighting Brezeale for another $2m and people like you will defend it, jsut like you defend the absurdity that is his resume, that contains one world class fighter in nearly 40 fights. If they stick with this negotiation they can get the same pay day Parker got AND agree a lucrative rematch if he wins like he is saying he will.

Who you got, Brezeale or Wilder?


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

Fuck me, it's a first offer, and as such it's not a bad starting point. I agree that he is worth more than Parker, but he can and will negotiate his purse up. Ball's in his court now.

It's annoying, I don't give a fuck how many millions each guy gets, but neither is ducking yet


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Ivan Drago said:


> 12.5 is low.
> 
> Nobody is serious about making this fight next.


Exactly right.

Shelley Finkel has already said they would accept 40%.
A low estimate, based on other fights, puts 40% at at least 20 million.

Hearn is just blowing smoke.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> As you can see, it's obvious who holds the power.


The power? What the fuck are you even talking about?

I'll keep it as simple as I possibly can for you:

Joshua says he badly wants to unify all the titles. Wilder holds the remaining one. Joshua is making Wilder offers to try and entice him into fighting him. Until Joshua makes Wilder an offer he is willing to accept there won't be a fight.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> The power? What the fuck are you even talking about?
> 
> I'll keep it as simple as I possibly can for you:
> 
> Joshua says he badly wants to unify all the titles. Wilder holds the remaining one. Joshua is making Wilder offers to try and entice him into fighting him. Until Joshua makes Wilder an offer he is willing to accept there won't be a fight.


Erm, what happens if they don't fight?

They both risk getting KO'd right?

Wilder will make $2m a fight and Joshua will make x10 that and likely fight better competition in front of a much larger audience. You've got to consider opportunity cost here, and the alternative for Wilder is that he continues making peanuts and risks getting knocked out and losing even more say in the AJ fight. AJ has similar risks, only he will continue being the highest paid guy in the division by a distance.

Your post is completely empty, says nothing at all. You mean if they don't agree there won't be a fight? Yeah we all know that mate, I'm pointing out the reality that Joshua is the one who has the power in the negotiations, not Wilder, that's how he is able to offer a flat fee. Joshua can walk away from these negotiations much more comfortable than Wilder.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> Erm, what happens if they don't fight?


If they don't fight they don't fight. I sure hope they do but that is up to the negotiations being finalized, and until Joshua makes an offer Wilder will accept there won't be a fight.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Eddie Hearn on Wilder offer "We're the A-side of this matchup,'A 60-40 split is so disproportionate in terms of the relative values of both fighters. Our offer is five times what Deontay Wilder has made for any fight. Everything he gets in this fight is because of Anthony.''


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> Has 48 hours to accept :rofl
> 
> Parker got around £8 million which is around the same as they are offering Wilder lol
> 
> More people watched Lara vs Hurd than Joshua vs Parker in USA. It doesn't have to be 60-40 but they have to at least offer Wilder $20, they negotiated with Parker for weeks but are given Wilder 48 hours for one of the biggest HW fights ever, Hearn will stall it til 2019


I think Hearns method of determining value here is flawed. If I was Wilder I would be offended by that offer and rat fuck the whole event until they come back with something decent.

Eddie Hearn is correct in saying that Wilder is not a draw on his own whereas Joshua is a draw on his own but this MATCHUP is worth an absolute motzah for Joshua, this is the one they want to see and no other opponent comes close.

This is a huge money fight not because Wilder is a direct draw but it is because the masses want to see them fight EACH OTHER. If I was Wilder i would challenge Hearns to try make as much money with someone else if Joshua is so popular.

..........On the other hand I am not Wilder so couldn't give two fucks about money, just fight you 2 pussies. I want see either guy knocked out


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Plus Parker did not hold out long enough for better offer. After lengthy negotiations i thought he took what he could in the end but he could of got more money out of Hearn


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

I'm sure Finkel and Wilder couldn't give a flying fuck what Hearn thinks Wilder is worth.

If Hearn wants to get Joshua a crack at Wilder's title he has to offer Wilder what Wilder thinks he is worth. Otherwise Wilder won't sign.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out. But like most, I really want to see this fight.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Flat fee offers for high-profile fights have tended to end up being between a third and two thirds smaller than the eventual earnings.

Pacquiao was offered a flat fee of $40 million to fight Mayweather and ended up making around $120 million.

Frampton was offered £1 million to fight Quigg and ended up making around £1.5 million.

Golovkin was supposedly offered between $10-$15 million to fight Canelo and ended up making an estimated $33 million.

I can't recall initial flat fee offers in high-profile bouts _ever _exceeding the eventual earnings but I _can _recall a bunch of fucking idiots accusing the above fighters of 'ducking' those fights because they turned down 'career high pay days'.

My guess is that Wilder will eventually earn between $16-$20 million for the Joshua fight. This offer from Hearn is simply to skew the optics of this fight as all of the above examples were.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

I agree. This is Hearn's low-ball, first offer, even though he is trying to play tough guy by labeling it a take it or leave it offer.

He low-balled Parker initially and tried to justify it. But as we saw Parker was successful in upping Hearn's initial offer quite substantially.


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## Yolo Swaggins (May 16, 2013)

Negotiations have begun


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

Yolo Swaggins said:


> Negotiations have begun


Yep, that's about all that can be said at this stage.

Let's hope they can come to an agreement and we get a fight.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Eoghan said:


> Fuck me, it's a first offer, and as such it's not a bad starting point. I agree that he is worth more than Parker, but he can and will negotiate his purse up. Ball's in his court now.
> 
> It's annoying, I don't give a fuck how many millions each guy gets, but neither is ducking yet


I'll wait to see Hearn's reaction to the counter off. I'll hold off using the word duck for now.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

*Schaefer: Hearn doesn't want to make Joshua-Wilder*


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I'll wait to see Hearn's reaction to the counter off. I'll hold off using the word duck for now.


Fair enough. It's the fight we all want to see, even the most casual of Joshua fanboys will question him if the Wilder fight doesn't come off. Like Canelo, I highly doubt they will outright duck the fight, even if they will look to gain as much of an advantage as possible (which Wilder may have to accept as the B-side here)


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## Lampley (Jun 4, 2013)

Hopefully, this is a first offer that leads to something like 70/30. Wilder would be a fool to accept a flat fee.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Well, if Wilder doesn't accept, he's the one that's more at risk of losing in the future anyways.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Gotta come with a higher offer than 12.5 my man. Wilder won't receive 40% for sure, but 12.5 is hilariously low. Like not even a real offer low.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> It's going to be interesting reading this thread. Let's see who previously championed flat fee offers that now think this is unreasonable.


The flat fee was offered after Manny rejected a 50/50 split and refused drug testing... then went on to struggle in his succeeding performances. It was designed to be a slap in the face, which is what this is.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

TFG said:


> Erm, what happens if they don't fight?
> 
> They both risk getting KO'd right?
> 
> ...


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> The flat fee was offered after Manny rejected a 50/50 split and refused drug testing... then went on to struggle in his succeeding performances. It was designed to be a slap in the face, which is what this is.


Whether Manny was in the right to reject a supposed offer (that may or may not have contained a 50/50 split) on the grounds that he would be required to do additional drug testing (he never refused drug testing, just Mayweather's request for _additional_ drug testing) will long be argued.

What can't be refuted is that many people saw the flat fee offer from Mayweather as absolutely being a serious offer. For years people called Manny a ducker using his turning down of that flat fee offer as a reason the fight didn't happen. So to call it a knowing slap in the face is revising history. Lots of people knew at the time it was a bad offer but a lot of other people only woke up to that realisation when the fight actually happened and the earnings were approximated.

The strategy behind these flat fee offers is clear. Wave a large figure, publicly, in front of someone's face (a career high figure no less!) and rally people to your side in disbelief as the guy turns down your generous offer. It's an attempt to manipulate fans' opinions. And it works. That's what all of the offers I listed have in common.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Rule number one: never accept the first offer.

But now that a flat fee is being discussed, Wilder's camp should set that as a base and request a split of overall revenues. Ultimately deals get done when two parties really want them to get done. Not through the media.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Question. Why are people mentioning Parker? Am I missing something? The flat fee offer is bullshit but Parker definitely didn't earn anywhere near that much did he? And there's no percentage being proposed in a flat fee offer so why are people mentioning Wilder earning less than Parker?

Are people mentioning Parker in the context of the _Wilder-is-somehow-obliged-to-accept-a-"career-high-pay-day" _argument? A career high pay day could obviously be a single dollar more than his biggest payday which may well be less than what Parker earned for the a Joshua fight. Is that where people are coming from when theyre saying "why should Wilder accept less than Parker?"


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Whether Manny was in the right to reject a supposed offer (that may or may not have contained a 50/50 split) on the grounds that he would be required to do additional drug testing (he never refused drug testing, just Mayweather's request for _additional_ drug testing) will long be argued.
> 
> What can't be refuted is that many people saw the flat fee offer from Mayweather as absolutely being a serious offer. For years people called Manny a ducker using his turning down of that flat fee offer as a reason the fight didn't happen. So to call it a knowing slap in the face is revising history. Lots of people knew at the time it was a bad offer but a lot of other people only woke up to that realisation when the fight actually happened and the earnings were approximated.
> 
> The strategy behind these flat fee offers is clear. Wave a large figure, publicly, in front of someone's face (a career high figure no less!) and rally people to your side in disbelief as the guy turns down your generous offer. It's an attempt to manipulate fans' opinions. And it works. That's what all of the offers I listed have in common.


Again, a 50/50 split was offered and rejected. Anyone with half a brain knew that 40 million was worth less than 50%. It was a DOWNGRADED offer, based on Manny's recent performances in the ring, and at the box office. When it offered, it was also done so with the contingency that Arum be eliminated from the equation.

No one expected team PAC to really consider the offer, and it did absolutely NOTHING to move along negotiations, unless you believe that Manny negotiated himself up to nine figures and TRIPLED the initial offer.

Let Wilder reject 50/50 and then you can make the same comparison.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/984083558569533440
Hearn saying this fight will only generate $40 million total?


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

dup...


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## UK fight fan (Apr 22, 2016)

Lol at some of the renowned FloMos on here. When Pacquiao didn't accept a flat fee v Mayweather it's a duck. When Golovkin didn't against Canelo, it's a duck. 

My, my, how agendas change when their boy is a clear B side. Apparently Joshua offering a flat fee (which would be significantly closer to what Wilder would actually receive 60/40ish than Pacquiao was offered) is his way of 'ducking' the fight.

Grow up. Nobody is ducking anybody. 


With the exception of Wilder
. .. who is ducking Body Snatcher Whyte


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/984083558569533440
> Hearn saying this fight will only generate $40 million total?


I can't see this fight generating that little revenue. Do you?


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Again, a 50/50 split was offered and rejected. Anyone with half a brain knew that 40 million was worth less than 50%. It was a DOWNGRADED offer, based on Manny's recent performances in the ring, and at the box office. When it offered, it was also done so with the contingency that Arum be eliminated from the equation.
> 
> No one expected team PAC to really consider the offer, and it did absolutely NOTHING to move along negotiations, unless you believe that Manny negotiated himself up to nine figures and TRIPLED the initial offer.
> 
> Let Wilder reject 50/50 and then you van make the same comparison.


Again, you're revising history. Not only did many people expect Pacquiao to consider the offer, they chastised him for not doing so. People who held the belief that a flat fee offer, while appearing to be a high figure in isolation, was not actually representative of the amount Pacquiao could potentially earn were called 'Pactards' who were defending his ducking of the fight.

You've got your take on this, that's clear. You see a difference in my examples and that's fine, there are slight nuances in each case for sure. But I've always been against flat fee offers and always will be. That's not how business is done at this level and I maintain that every example I've given is a clear attempt to manipulate fans' opinions.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> I can't see this fight generating that little revenue. Do you?


No way in hell it only generates that little revenue.


----------



## Guest (Apr 11, 2018)

JeffJoiner said:


> Rule number one: never accept the first offer.
> 
> But now that a flat fee is being discussed, Wilder's camp should set that as a base and request a split of overall revenues. Ultimately deals get done when two parties really want them to get done. Not through the media.


Hearn has offered the flat fee as a way to push the Wilder camp towards a lower %. Pretty obvious.


----------



## Guest (Apr 11, 2018)

Hearn laid out a plan for this fight to generate more revenue. Wilder v Whyte in the UK to build Wilder in the UK Market. Joshua fighting in New York to build him in the US market. Then they do the fight in Vegas on US PPV which adds an additional revenue stream.

Wilders team didn't want to play ball. They were presented with an opportunity to bring more to the table and rejected it......but now they want to get paid like the did the work. I negotiation terms Hearn/AJ hold all the cards. They can make $25mil a fight no problem. They have other options for mega fights with Fury & Haye if he wins May 5th. Wilder has......Dominic Breazeale in fornt of 8,000 at the Barclays Center for another $2mil.


----------



## Guest (Apr 11, 2018)

Reality check. Manny Pacquiao ended up accepting a lower percentage and the exact level of drug testing that he rejected 4 years prior for the fight in 2015.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I said Floyd screwed up by not asking for 50/50 in 2012


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Rob said:


> Hearn laid out a plan for this fight to generate more revenue. Wilder v Whyte in the UK to build Wilder in the UK Market. Joshua fighting in New York to build him in the US market. Then they do the fight in Vegas on US PPV which adds an additional revenue stream.
> 
> Wilders team didn't want to play ball. They were presented with an opportunity to bring more to the table and rejected it......but now they want to get paid like the did the work. I negotiation terms Hearn/AJ hold all the cards. They can make $25mil a fight no problem. They have other options for mega fights with Fury & Haye if he wins May 5th. Wilder has......Dominic Breazeale in fornt of 8,000 at the Barclays Center for another $2mil.


Wilder specifically said he'd fight Whyte if Hearn guaranteed him the Joshua fight afterward. Hearn didn't comply.


----------



## Guest (Apr 11, 2018)

bballchump11 said:


> Wilder specifically said he'd fight Whyte if Hearn guaranteed him the Joshua fight afterward. Hearn didn't comply.


His most recent interviews said he would be down for that.


----------



## Guest (Apr 11, 2018)

bballchump11 said:


> I said Floyd screwed up by not asking for 50/50 in 2012


He did though. It was a 50/50 deal and the fight didnt happen as Pacquiao refused drug testing.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Rob said:


> His most recent interviews said he would be down for that.


Hearn also likes to talk out of both sides of his mouth


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Rob said:


> He did though. It was a 50/50 deal and the fight didnt happen as Pacquiao refused drug testing.


He did in 2010, but changed it in 2012 before Floyd went to jail.

I do think Floyd wanted the fight then, but asking for more money gave Arum an out who was making up fake stadiums and unhealable cuts as a reason to duck the fight.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Again, you're revising history. Not only did many people expect Pacquiao to consider the offer, they chastised him for not doing so. People who held the belief that a flat fee offer, while appearing to be a high figure in isolation, was not actually representative of the amount Pacquiao could potentially earn were called 'Pactards' who were defending his ducking of the fight.
> 
> You've got your take on this, that's clear. You see a difference in my examples and that's fine, there are slight nuances in each case for sure. But I've always been against flat fee offers and always will be. That's not how business is done at this level and I maintain that every example I've given is a clear attempt to manipulate fans' opinions.


When Manny rejected the 50/50, Floyd literally told him that the offer was off the table, and that he would not be seeing one nearly as fair; 40 million flat was the manifestation of this. It may be that people wanted Manny to accept the offer after losing a decision to Bradley and getting a gift decision against JMM, but no one believed that Floyd was trying to do Manny any favors. It was a low ball offer made by Floyd at an advantageous time.

The rejection of the 50/50 is much more than a "nuance"; it is the very reason that the secondary offer was disdainfully made. There exists no negotiation history between Joshua and Wilder, nor has Wilder suffered. a loss in the ring.


----------



## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Kurushi said:


> Question. Why are people mentioning Parker? Am I missing something? The flat fee offer is bullshit but Parker definitely didn't earn anywhere near that much did he? And there's no percentage being proposed in a flat fee offer so why are people mentioning Wilder earning less than Parker?
> 
> Are people mentioning Parker in the context of the _Wilder-is-somehow-obliged-to-accept-a-"career-high-pay-day" _argument? A career high pay day could obviously be a single dollar more than his biggest payday which may well be less than what Parker earned for the a Joshua fight. Is that where people are coming from when theyre saying "why should Wilder accept less than Parker?"


Parker got £7-8 million which is around $11-12 million, so they are offering a tiny bit more when no one even know who Parker was, Wilder should get at least £12m


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> Parker got £7-8 million which is around $11-12 million, so they are offering a tiny bit more when no one even know who Parker was, Wilder should get at least £12m


Thanks A! Have you got a reliable source for Parker's purse?


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> Parker got £7-8 million which is around $11-12 million, so they are offering a tiny bit more when no one even know who Parker was, Wilder should get at least £12m


Yep and when you take in mind that the Wilder fight will make more money, that ends up giving Wilder a lower split.


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

That's more than he'd get with a PPV split imo, here in the US at least.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

:rofl

Well fuck me, Wilder has shot back with an even more crazy offer! I thought Hearn's offer was just for shits and giggles, there's like 0% chance of them giving Wilder $50 Million guaranteed. Are the fans the only ones who want the fight as both sides are throwing out stupid numbers? Fucking come with reasonable offers.

https://www.boxingscene.com/joshua-team-wilder-give-me-50-million-ill-sign-tomorrow--127099

EDIT: So it is Joshua saying this, not Wilder. Thanks @Kurushi !!!


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> :rofl
> 
> Well fuck me, Wilder has shot back with an even more crazy offer! I thought Hearn's offer was just for shits and giggles, there's like 0% chance of them giving Wilder $50 Million guaranteed. Are the fans the only ones who want the fight as both sides are throwing out stupid numbers? Fucking come with reasonable offers.
> 
> https://www.boxingscene.com/joshua-team-wilder-give-me-50-million-ill-sign-tomorrow--127099


That's Joshua saying that, not Wilder. He's saying if Wilder thinks it's a $100 million fight then he'll take 50/50 right now.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> That's Joshua saying that, not Wilder. He's saying if Wilder thinks it's a $100 million fight then he'll take 50/50 right now.


Oh God good, it's early, I need sleep haha. atschatsch

Think it'll be far easier for Wilder to work up from 12.5 than work down from 50.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Oh God good, it's early, I need sleep haha. atschatsch
> 
> Think it'll be far easier for Wilder to work up from 12.5 than work down from 50.


:lol: I almost did the same thing mate. I'm so primed to read about Wilder's counter offer that I almost misread this as being it.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> :lol: I almost did the same thing mate. I'm so primed to read about Wilder's counter offer that I almost misread this as being it.


Yeah really interested in what it'll be, my guess would be around 20 million if they are going with a flat fee offer. Don't think the fight is worth less than 50 million so at the bottom end of worth Wilder would be getting a 60/40 deal and I think it'll end up worth more than 50 million.


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## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

The main road block isn't going to be the initial split, the problem is going to be the rematch split. If Hearn is demanding the same 70-30 split on the rematch, no way Wilder's team agrees to that. Wilder will take less in the first fight, but no way he agrees to take 25-30% as the undisputed champ when at that point AJ has no belt, diminished drawing power, and coming off a loss (in theory).


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Not a bad starting point but not budging from here and giving that short window is bad-faith negotiation.


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## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Not a bad starting point but not budging from here and giving that short window is bad-faith negotiation.


And they know it...


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Not a bad starting point but not budging from here and giving that short window is bad-faith negotiation.





allenko1 said:


> And they know it...


For what it's worth, Hearn claims he doesn't know where the 48 hour thing came from:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/984015773516656640


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## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

oh well, the low-balling notwithstanding. pardon me...


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Joshua sets New Guinness World Record for largest boxercise lesson. What is Wilder trying to do to promote the fight?  :lol:

https://www.boxingscene.com/photos-anthony-joshua-sets-new-guinness-world-record--127097


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> For what it's worth, Hearn claims he doesn't know where the 48 hour thing came from:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/984015773516656640


Oh alright.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> oh well, the low-balling notwithstanding. pardon me...





Bogotazo said:


> Oh alright.


Well shit, now you've got me feeling like I'm being all pedantic or something.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Well shit, now you've got me feeling like I'm being all pedantic or something.


:lol: Nah makes a huge difference so I retract


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

I ain't retractin shit...


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

UK fight fan said:


> Lol at some of the renowned FloMos on here. When Pacquiao didn't accept a flat fee v Mayweather it's a duck. When Golovkin didn't against Canelo, it's a duck.
> 
> My, my, how agendas change when their boy is a clear B side. Apparently Joshua offering a flat fee (which would be significantly closer to what Wilder would actually receive 60/40ish than Pacquiao was offered) is his way of 'ducking' the fight.
> 
> ...


Not really, Pac just showed his bitchass letting Uncle Bob tell him what to do all while picking his pocket.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> When Manny rejected the 50/50, Floyd literally told him that the offer was off the table, and that he would not be seeing one nearly as fair; 40 million flat was the manifestation of this. It may be that people wanted Manny to accept the offer after losing a decision to Bradley and getting a gift decision against JMM, but no one believed that Floyd was trying to do Manny any favors. It was a low ball offer made by Floyd at an advantageous time.
> 
> The rejection of the 50/50 is much more than a "nuance"; it is the very reason that the secondary offer was disdainfully made. There exists no negotiation history between Joshua and Wilder, nor has Wilder suffered. a loss in the ring.


Not to mention after Pac robbed Marquez they were going to pursue a rematch with Marquez and take Floyd to court, so they really weren't even looking for Floyd anymore. They knew what was up.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

But this is good as it shows negotiations are starting up.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Flat fee offers for high-profile fights have tended to end up being between a third and two thirds smaller than the eventual earnings.
> 
> Pacquiao was offered a flat fee of $40 million to fight Mayweather and ended up making around $120 million.
> 
> ...


????


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Smart on Wilder too, especially if they buy a good ref to help out Joshua.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Not to mention after Pac robbed Marquez they were going to pursue a rematch with Marquez and take Floyd to court, so they really weren't even looking for Floyd anymore. They knew what was up.


It was a pure stroke of luck that Manny was even able to patch together a couple of good showings to make the fight somewhat worthwhile again after nearly dying against JMM. They both realized that they couldn't leave that sort of money on the table and they had just about run out of time to make it happen.

Floyd could have come back with the 40 million dollar offer after that JMM ko, but he knew that it was never realistic and, therefore, didn't bother wasting any more time.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> It was a pure stroke of luck that Manny was even able to patch together a couple of good showings to make the fight somewhat worthwhile again after nearly dying against JMM.


Thank goodness for Timmeh.


----------



## UK fight fan (Apr 22, 2016)

turbotime said:


> Not really, Pac just showed his bitchass letting Uncle Bob tell him what to do all while picking his pocket.


Yet Pacquiao ended up earning about 3x as much as Mayweather's flat fee offer.

Toodle pip Flomo :lol:atsch


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

UK fight fan said:


> Yet Pacquiao ended up earning about 3x as much as Mayweather's flat fee offer.
> 
> Toodle pip Flomo :lol:atsch


I'd love for you to find a post where I defended any flat fee offer at a high level.


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## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

That's an extremely hard offer to turn down I would think. But considering it's Hearn I think he knows he could give more to Wilder and that Wilder's team knows that too and would turn this down and Hearn could say it's not their fault. If it's PPV which it would be in UK and maybe even US, don't both fighters normally get a percentage of that? Not just a flat fee? All that being said I don't have the slightest clue how the boxing business actually runs and all that so yeah we'll jjust have to wait and see what happens


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

I would counter with 20 mill. 12.5 million is too low for a fight like this.


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## Tarking Rubbish (Jun 28, 2017)

FloydPatterson said:


> I would counter with 20 mill. 12.5 million is too low for a fight like this.


You say that but you don't know. I'm not into the whole business side of boxing, but how can anyone guess what this fight makes when NEITHER fighter has ever done a PPV in US.

I'd speculate that Wilder's team haven't attempted to do a PPV with him because it would bury them in negotiations for the AJ fight.


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## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

I don't know who's ducking who or what direction this negotiation goes. All I can say is, if Wilder takes this fight and wallops AJ, he'll get all the money he could ask for in his next fight. Either a rematch with AJ, a duel with Fury or even a routine defense against Whyte.


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## Lampley (Jun 4, 2013)

Under no circumstances should or will Wilder accept a flat fee. It's a non-offer, really, and not indicative of Hearn truly wanting the fight. *Hopefully*, it's merely a first step in a serious negotiation.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Dan Rafeal
"...to be offered a flat fee is not a real offer. *It's an offer meant for the Joshua team to be able to run around and say, "Hey, we made an offer, and Team Wilder turned it down." It's called playing games*, and it's nothing new in boxing.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

Hearn not fancying the possibility of Joshua defending in Russia has probably provided Finkel and Wilder with a fraction more leverage.


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## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> Dan Rafeal
> "...to be offered a flat fee is not a real offer. *It's an offer meant for the Joshua team to be able to run around and say, "Hey, we made an offer, and Team Wilder turned it down." It's called playing games*, and it's nothing new in boxing.


When Dan is saying something like that, you know it's a bad deal...


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Hearn- "Why overpay for this fight [Wilder vs Joshua] when it's high risk. That's the difference between this fight from those other fights."

"You can have a no risk for for $20 million or you can have a high risk fight $30 million."


----------



## Brighton Bomber (May 25, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Hearn- "Why overpay for this fight [Wilder vs Joshua] when it's high risk. That's the difference between this fight from those other fights."
> 
> "You can have a no risk for for $20 million or you can have a high risk fight $30 million."


So despite Finkel saying they would have a counter offer 48 hours after Hearns offer here we are 5 days later and still no offer from Finkel or Wilder.

Hearn confirmed Parker didn't get 33% and Wilder is not worth 40% but is willing to talk but again no response from team Wilder.

Hearn has also heard that Wilder may have already signed to fight Breazeale and agreed a date, if true WTF!

Hearn will be going to the US next week to try and make a deal face to face as they haven't contacted him at all since he made his initial offer.

Hearn seems to be the only one trying to make a fight at the moment. While he is making offers, planning to fly to the US, Wilder, looking at his Instagram is having fun at Coachella with his GF.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Brighton Bomber said:


> So despite Finkel saying they would have a counter offer 48 hours after Hearns offer here we are 5 days later and still no offer from Finkel or Wilder.
> 
> Hearn confirmed Parker didn't get 33% and Wilder is not worth 40% but is willing to talk but again no response from team Wilder.
> 
> ...


Hearn also is a big liar :think1


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Oh shit


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/989243629632827392


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Crazy if true..

https://www.boxingscene.com/team-wilder-send-50-million-offer-joshua-unification--127535


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

:lol: I know the negotiations side of boxing pisses people off a lot but for some reason it's very fun following the silliness of the Joshua/Wilder saga.

I highly doubt Joshua has been sent an offer for 50 million.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Man looks like Haymon and Wilder have a shit load of promoting to do in the next several months. Though Haymon has been involved with the biggest events in boxing history revenue wise. He would know how to generate the money for the purses.


----------



## Wig (Jan 26, 2014)

£50m vs $50m will be the next soap opera for the plebs to froth over


----------



## Guest (Apr 25, 2018)




----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Rob said:


>


Hearn better play along


----------



## Guest (Apr 25, 2018)

bballchump11 said:


> Hearn better play along


well apparently there was no contract. the email was sent directly from Wilder and there was no actual contract.....but Joshua has 24 hours to accept.


----------



## Guest (Apr 25, 2018)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/989270004406382593


----------



## Guest (Apr 25, 2018)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/989269303806582787


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Rob said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/989269303806582787





Rob said:


> well apparently there was no contract. the email was sent directly from Wilder and there was no actual contract.....but Joshua has 24 hours to accept.


Well hopefully they can get everything settled. It's good to see that they agreed to the money which was the biggest issue.


----------



## Guest (Apr 25, 2018)

bballchump11 said:


> Well hopefully they can get everything settled. It's good to see that they agreed to the money which was the biggest issue.


Its not a genuine offer.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/boxing/11346744/finkel-50m-take-it-or-leave-it

http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/boxing/11346731/hearn-wilder-50m-offer-a-pr-move


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Rob said:


> Its not a genuine offer.


call the bluff


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Send the damn contract team Wilder, an email won't do. If there is a contract and it says $50 million guaranteed, Joshua needs to sign it and let's make the fight. The 24 hour deadline is bullshit though.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Outlandish stuff but both parties seem willing to get something done.


----------



## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

Hard to tell how real the offer is at this stage. If nothing else it is getting the fight plenty of media attention. Everybody is talking about it.

The two teams are meant to meet up in the US on Friday anyway, aren't they?

Logically by the weekend we'll know a whole lot more.


----------



## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Outlandish stuff but both parties seem willing to get something done.


That's my take. Deals are made when two sides actually want to make a deal. It seems like both sides want this fight to happen.

It will take a lot of offers going back and forth, I'd imagine, but I like the odds of this happening.


----------



## Guest (Apr 26, 2018)

Divi253 said:


> Send the damn contract team Wilder, an email won't do. If there is a contract and it says $50 million guaranteed, Joshua needs to sign it and let's make the fight. The 24 hour deadline is bullshit though.


Well there is a bit more to it than that.


----------



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

I've just emailed a $100M offer to Wilder to grapple in jujitsu, he has 3 hours to accept. Legit offer.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

JeffJoiner said:


> That's my take. Deals are made when two sides actually want to make a deal. It seems like both sides want this fight to happen.
> 
> It will take a lot of offers going back and forth, I'd imagine, but I like the odds of this happening.


We can hope...


----------



## Boxalot (Jun 5, 2013)

So basically Wilder has sent an email to Hearn littered with spelling mistakes saying he has 24 hours to sign but hasn’t sent a contract. What a load of rubbish:rofl 

This basically means in 24 hours he’ll release a statement saying Hearn has bottled it and Dom Brezeale will be announced incredibly quickly. Amazingly, his fans will buy this bullshit and accuse AJ of ducking. 

Wilder’s team is truly an embarrassment.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Boxalot said:


> So basically Wilder has sent an email to Hearn littered with spelling mistakes saying he has 24 hours to sign but hasn't sent a contract. What a load of rubbish:rofl
> 
> This basically means in 24 hours he'll release a statement saying Hearn has bottled it and Dom Brezeale will be announced incredibly quickly. Amazingly, his fans will buy this bullshit and accuse AJ of ducking.
> 
> Wilder's team is truly an embarrassment.


Hearn sent an offer and Wilder sent a counter offer. They're meeting face to face this week. The contract can be worked out then. If they agree with the money, then they can move onto the next step of drawing up contracts.

Or he can come up with his next excuse like how he wants £50 million instead of $50 million


----------



## Boxalot (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Hearn sent an offer and Wilder sent a counter offer. They're meeting face to face this week. The contract can be worked out then. If they agree with the money, then they can move onto the next step of drawing up contracts.
> 
> Or he can come up with his next excuse like how he wants £50 million instead of $50 million


:rofl

You Wilder fans are incredible. Genuinely up there with Pactards.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Boxalot said:


> :rofl
> 
> You Wilder fans are incredible. Genuinely up there with Pactards.


What's wrong with what I said. Wilder fans actually want to see the fight. AJ fans just come up with excuses for why it can't or won't happen.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Boxalot said:


> :rofl
> 
> You Wilder fans are incredible. Genuinely up there with Pactards.


You Joshua fans are delusional. Genuinely up there with Trump supporters.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Hearn sent an offer and Wilder sent a counter offer. They're meeting face to face this week. The contract can be worked out then. If they agree with the money, then they can move onto the next step of drawing up contracts.
> 
> Or he can come up with his next excuse like how he wants £50 million instead of $50 million


They have to build a new stadium before the fight can happen.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> They have to build a new stadium before the fight can happen.


:lol: damn, I hope Joshua doesn't get a cut that requires 6 months to heal also.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> :lol: damn, I hope Joshua doesn't get a cut that requires 6 months to heal also.


Anything can happen during heeevy training.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

My prediction:

Aj accepts the offer, then 2 weeks before the fight, he has some minor legal issue, and his travel visa gets suspended.

"Gosh darn it, we REALLY wanted to fight Wilder ! "




(And yes, in fairness, this is already a tried & true Wilder tactic, if you choose to actually believe such nonsense.)


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

@bballchump11 @Cableaddict @steviebruno

Sorry to interrupt your circle jerk guys but just so that we're clear, do you think Deontay's email is an actual actionable offer or a PR stunt like Eddie's $12.5 million offer?


----------



## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

So they've set a deadline to accept the offer that ends BEFORE the two teams are set to meet for negotiations. Yeah, that makes sense.

It's all bullshit posturing from both sides. A PR battle to ensure the other side gets the blame for the fight not happening when Wilder fights Brezeale and Joshua fights Povetkin next.

You'd think people would've learned to ignore all this stuff after the MMAyweather vs Pacquiao nonsense.


----------



## Casual Benson's Unknown (Jun 5, 2012)

Wilder and team want it, AJ wants it

Hearn doesn’t

Wilder inside 6 imo


----------



## Boxalot (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> What's wrong with what I said. Wilder fans actually want to see the fight. AJ fans just come up with excuses for why it can't or won't happen.


Allow me to break it down for you:

In any offer of a guarantee for $50million for a fight of this magnitude there will be many stipulations in the contract that are non negotiable, especially when the person making the offer most likely doesn't have the $50million to guarantee. Examples in this situation:

- Fight has to be at Venue X 
- No upside to you on the guarantee
- Fight has to be on HBO PPV which, presumably, they've secured with the network before making the offer otherwise it'd be an empty offer.
- No rematch clause. More simply if Team Wilder are confident on winning the fight, they wouldn't want a rematch clause inputed as they'd be able to pull Team AJ's pants down in negotiations for a rematch.

In addition to this, there will be a number of clauses in the contract where there are - presumably - room for negotiation. In this situation, these would likely include:

- Ring size
- Gloves
- Press your commitments. To break it down in detail, in order to produce the kind of revenue Team Wilder would need in order to make a $50million guarantee be worthwhile to them they'd definitely need AJ to commit to a gruelling worldwide press tour which would affect camp.

All of the above are absolutely standard examples of what would be involved in making an official offer of this amount for a fight of this magnitude. *None* of the above was put in the offer. As far as we've been made aware, the offer consisted of Wilder himself (not even his manager!) emailing Eddie Hearn and Rob McCracken saying "I'm offering $50million guarantee to AJ sign fite bi 2moro or no deal blud".

From Team AJ's side, they'd want to know all of the above details plus a load more. For starters, they'll want proof that Team Wilder actually have $50million guaranteed and they'd want assurances the money would be kept in escrow until after the fight.

Also, the two teams are scheduled to sit down later this week in order to thrash out a deal. If the offer was a genuine offer rather than an attempt to gain PR points with morons who don't understand how business works then they'd have presented it at that meeting. If they couldn't wait until then they'd have drafted a proper offer in principle that contained sufficient detail. It would have also been spelled correctly ffs and sent by Wilder's manager.

If I obtained Wilders e-mail address I could drop him an email guaranteeing him $1billion to fight me. Do I have $1billion? I fucking wish.

Deontay Wilder has already agreed to fight Dominic Brezeale. This is the worst kept secret in boxing and they've even gone to the lengths of persuading the WBC to make it a mandatory defence despite 1) Brezeale being #2 in their rankings behind Dillian Whyte (another man Wilder is avoiding), and 2) Brezeale NEVER having fought a final eliminator. What will happen is Wilder and his team will come out and say Hearn didn't sign the $50mil guarantee (despite there being nothing to sign) so they had no choice but to fight their mandatory in a fight nobody wants to see or lose the belt. It's worth noting he fought his mandatory in another shit fight a few months ago so his mandatory wouldn't actually be due yet, but that's another matter entirely. You and all other Wilder fans will continue to explicably believe this.

Hearn is a massive cunt and I can't stand him. The fact he's actually more in the right in this situation shows how much of a clusterfuck Wilder and his team are.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> @bballchump11 @Cableaddict @steviebruno
> 
> Sorry to interrupt your circle jerk guys but just so that we're clear, do you think Deontay's email is an actual actionable offer or a PR stunt like Eddie's $12.5 million offer?


PR. It's basically a request that Joshua and his team stop trying to negotiate through the media for a fight that THEY are delaying.


----------



## Boxalot (Jun 5, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> PR. It's basically a request that Joshua and his team stop trying to negotiate through the media for a fight that THEY are delaying.


AJ sent Team Wilder a confidential offer. Wilder then made the offer public...


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> PR. It's basically a request that Joshua and his team stop trying to negotiate through the media for a fight that THEY are delaying.


So it's PR but whereas Eddie's PR was "gay", this PR is good because it's aimed at stopping Hearn trying to negotiate the fight through the media?


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> So it's PR but whereas Eddie's PR was "gay", this PR is good because it's aimed at stopping Hearn trying to negotiate the fight through the media?


Joshua was the one who spouted off about the 50 million. Team Wilder basically pulled his card, knowing that Joshua would back down while highlighting the ridiculousness of the 12.5 million offer. If Joshua himself won't take 50 flat, why would they offer 1/4 of that to Wilder? That is the question that they are posing here.

I never said that it was "good" PR, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Boxalot said:


> AJ sent Team Wilder a confidential offer. Wilder then made the offer public...


The offer was confidential, but Hearn had already publicly announced that they were going to make an offer to Wilder before doing so.


----------



## Wig (Jan 26, 2014)

Boxalot said:


> Allow me to break it down for you:
> 
> In any offer of a guarantee for $50million for a fight of this magnitude there will be many stipulations in the contract that are non negotiable, especially when the person making the offer most likely doesn't have the $50million to guarantee. Examples in this situation:
> 
> ...


tl;dr


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Joshua was the one who spouted off about the 50 million. Team Wilder basically pulled his card, knowing that Joshua would back down while highlighting the ridiculousness of the 12.5 million offer. If Joshua himself won't take 50 flat, why would they offer 1/4 of that to Wilder? That is the question that they are posing here.
> 
> *I never said that it was "good" PR, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from*.


Well, I'm getting it from the fact that you're critical of Hearn's PR but supportive/complimentary of Deontay's PR as if they're not both designed to sway public perception.

First you said it was a "request that Joshua and his team stop trying to negotiate through the media for a fight that THEY are delaying."

Now you're saying something completely different, that the point of Deontay's PR is to pose the question that "if Joshua himself won't take 50 flat, why would they offer 1/4 of that to Wilder?"

But carry on revising what Deontay means. It reminds me of earlier in the thread when you revised what Mayweather's intentions were in offering Pac $40 million.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Well, I'm getting it from the fact that you're critical of Hearn's PR but supportive/complimentary of Deontay's PR as if they're not both designed to sway public perception.
> 
> First you said it was a "request that Joshua and his team stop trying to negotiate through the media for a fight that THEY are delaying."
> 
> ...


I'm not supportive of anything except seeing the fight. IMO, one side is more willing to make that happen. I couldn't care any less about who's scoring points in a negotiation.

I think that it's pretty obvious what team Wilder is doing here, just as it was obvious what Hearn was up to. They used the same type of flat offer, with the exact type of deadline for accepting. They don't expect team Joshua to accept the 50 million, they just want them to shut the hell up.

You're getting all in your feelings over silliness, after first trying to justify the 12.5 offer....


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> I'm not supportive of anything except seeing the fight. IMO, one side is more willing to make that happen. I couldn't care any less about who's scoring points in a negotiation.
> 
> *I think that it's pretty obvious what team Wilder is doing here, just as it was obvious what Hearn was up to*. They used the same type of flat offer, with the exact type of deadline for accepting. They don't expect team Joshua to accept the 50 million, they just want them to shut the hell up.
> 
> You're getting all in your feelings over silliness, after first trying to justify the 12.5 offer....


It can't be that obvious to _you_ as you've come up with two different explanations already. But it is obvious yes, they're both posturing publicly knowing that the real negotiating will be done behind closed doors.

Did Wilder even mention a deadline of 24 hours? I didn't hear that in the video or see it in the tweet. Hearn also didn't seem to know where the 48 hours thing that was attributed to him came from.

I'm not "getting all in my feelings" as you put it. I quite enjoy the back and forths that these PR stunts generate but I see them both as being the same thing, obvious posturing, which is why you won't be able to back up your claim that I justified the 12.5 offer. To the contrary I criticised Hearn's offer as being a way to skew the public's opinion and compared it to previous flat-fee offers explaining how poor they are.

I doubt you're getting all in your feelings either, it's just funny to me that you see the PR moves as having different intentions and that you're critical of one and not of the other. You're obviously a very loyal Wilder fan and I don't mean that in a snide way.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> It can't be that obvious to _you_ as you've come up with two different explanations already. But it is obvious yes, they're both posturing publicly knowing that the real negotiating will be done behind closed doors.
> 
> Did Wilder even mention a deadline of 24 hours? I didn't hear that in the video or see it in the tweet. Hearn also didn't seem to know where the 48 hours thing that was attributed to him came from.
> 
> ...


Odd, I've been called a loyal Wilder fan AND a Wilder hater. I just call it as I see it.

The two reaaons I gave are one in the same; the question that team Wilder is posing is a rhetorical one: if you won't take my fifty mil, why are you spouting off about me rejecting your offer, which was a fraction of what I am offering you?

In other words, shut up and make me a real offer.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Odd, I've been called a loyal Wilder fan AND a Wilder hater. I just call it as I see it.
> 
> The two reaaons I gave are one in the same; the question that team Wilder is posing is a rhetorical one: if you won't take my fifty mil, why are you spouting off about me rejecting your offer, which was a fraction of what I am offering you?
> 
> In other words, shut up and make me a real offer.


That is odd. Why did someone call you a Wilder hater? But I agree. Wilder's PR move is, by nature of it being posturing, rhetorical.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> @bballchump11 @Cableaddict @steviebruno
> 
> Sorry to interrupt your circle jerk guys but just so that we're clear, do you think Deontay's email is an actual actionable offer or a PR stunt like Eddie's $12.5 million offer?


No because Hearn's offer was meant to be turned down. Obviously AJ isn't going to turn down $50 million. And Wilder isn't dumb enough to offer him money he doesn't have.



Casual ******'s Unknown HOOOOOK said:


> Wilder and team want it, AJ wants it
> 
> Hearn doesn't
> 
> Wilder inside 6 imo


It really seems that way


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

Fair play to Wilder for calling the AJ bluff.

I feel more confident it will get made now as it'll look bad on AJ/Hearn if it doesn't get signed now.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Boxalot said:


> Allow me to break it down for you:
> 
> In any offer of a guarantee for $50million for a fight of this magnitude there will be many stipulations in the contract that are non negotiable, especially when the person making the offer most likely doesn't have the $50million to guarantee. Examples in this situation:
> 
> ...


The biggest hurdle from both sides was the money. Why send a big long drawn out contract for all of those things you mentioned, when they haven't been agreed to yet? Wilder sent an email first to get a consensus on the money. Once Hearn/AJ agree to that, they can move onto the next steps. That'll be very easy since they're meeting face to face this week.

Many times in making a deal, both sides will just send things back in bullet points to be agreed upon until the final contract is written up.

And stop letting Hearn's propaganda about the Breazeale fight get to you. That dickwad has been coming up with plans to avoid Wilder this whole time.






He's been talking about Miller and Povetkin for weeks while asking Wilder to fight Whyte.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> He's been talking about Miller and Povetkin for weeks while asking Wilder to fight Whyte.


Yep.

It's obvious Hearn is afraid to make this fight. Once Joshua gets totally humiliated by the Tuscaloosa Tornado, Hearn's cash cow will start giving only skim milk. Gotta' milk that bitch for as long as he can.....


----------



## Kezza (Aug 13, 2017)

bballchump11 said:


> And stop letting Hearn's propaganda about the Breazeale fight get to you. That dickwad has been coming up with plans to avoid Wilder this whole time.


Are you saying its just a coincidence Breazeale has been made mandatory when Hearn said weeks ago that Wilder's team had that fight agreed?


----------



## Kezza (Aug 13, 2017)

Cableaddict said:


> Yep.
> 
> It's obvious Hearn is afraid to make this fight. Once Joshua gets totally humiliated by the Tuscaloosa Tornado, Hearn's cash cow will start giving only skim milk. Gotta' milk that bitch for as long as he can.....


Even though Wilder's been the one treading water for 10 years....


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Kezza said:


> Are you saying its just a coincidence Breazeale has been made mandatory when Hearn said weeks ago that Wilder's team had that fight agreed?


I'm sure Breazeale is the backup plan, but Wilder isn't looking to fight him next. Wilder hasn't even mentioned Breazeale except to say that he doesn't want to fight him.

Hearn on the other hand keeps publicly talking about Jarrell Miller and Povetkin. He just yesterday said he wanted Joshua to fight Miller before he fights Wilder. Then Hearn keeps insisting Wilder fight Whyte before the Joshua fight. It's extremely silly to pretend like Wilder already signed the Breazeale fight while ignoring all of the plans Hearn has.


----------



## Kezza (Aug 13, 2017)

bballchump11 said:


> I'm sure Breazeale is the backup plan, but Wilder isn't looking to fight him next. Wilder hasn't even mentioned Breazeale except to say that he doesn't want to fight him.
> 
> Hearn on the other hand keeps publicly talking about Jarrell Miller and Povetkin. He just yesterday said he wanted Joshua to fight Miller before he fights Wilder. Then Hearn keeps insisting Wilder fight Whyte before the Joshua fight. It's extremely silly to pretend like Wilder already signed the Breazeale fight while ignoring all of the plans Hearn has.


Do you think Stiverne fought himself into a position to become mandatory challenger? Just because Wilder tells the world he doesn't want to fight Breazeale doesn't mean that's what he's telling his team, just like in the second Stiverne "fight".


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Kezza said:


> Do you think Stiverne fought himself into a position to become mandatory challenger? Just because Wilder tells the world he doesn't want to fight Breazeale doesn't mean that's what he's telling his team, just like in the second Stiverne "fight".


Stiverne unfairly got another shot. Shit even Wilder was pissed and questioning why Stiverne was the mandatory again. You might have to ask Don King about that.










And tbf, Stiverne was going to fight Povetkin for that spot, but he got busted for PEDs.


----------



## Kezza (Aug 13, 2017)

bballchump11 said:


> Stiverne unfairly got another shot. Shit even Wilder was pissed and questioning why Stiverne was the mandatory again. You might have to ask Don King about that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WBC got a funny habit of giving Wilder piss easy mandos it seems :think1

You mean Povetkin got busted but then got found not guilty and sued the fuck outta Wilder. Don't worry though AJ will beat him for Wilder.

Why didn't Wilder ever fight Wlad or Vitali? All he had to do was get into a mandatory position like Fury did. Instead he waited for them to retire and fought shitty Stiverne. But yeh AJ is a ducker, right?


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Kezza said:


> WBC got a funny habit of giving Wilder piss easy mandos it seems :think1
> 
> You mean Povetkin got busted but then got found not guilty and sued the fuck outta Wilder. Don't worry though AJ will beat him for Wilder.
> 
> Why didn't Wilder ever fight Wlad or Vitali? All he had to do was get into a mandatory position like Fury did. Instead he waited for them to retire and fought shitty Stiverne. But yeh AJ is a ducker, right?


A juiced up Povetkin wasn't easy. And Povetkin was going to fight Stiverne after the whole meledonium case for a final eliminator to become the mandatory and failed another test for another drug.

And your last point has nothing to do with this conversation.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

https://www.boxingscene.com/hearn-wilder-provide-proof-funds-proper-contract--127561



> "I got an email from Deontay Wilder, basically offering a 50/50 split of the fight, which isn't of interest, but with a 50 million guarantee which is of interest," Hearn told iFL TV.
> 
> "It said to please respond by tomorrow, which makes it feel like a PR move, especially since it has come from Deontay. But we have to take it seriously.
> 
> ...


Hopefully venue and the 'other rights' do not stop this, if Haymon does indeed put up $50 million guaranteed for Joshua.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

https://www.boxingscene.com/wilder-manager-contacts-hearn-reacts-publicity-stunt-claim--127564



> *Dear Eddie,*
> 
> *With all due respect you know Al and I for a long time and you know this is not a publicity stunt. I assure you that we're serious and we would be glad to sit down with you and provide proper security for the funding and work out all the details.*
> 
> ...


Hopefully Wilder's team do not skip out on the meeting completely if Joshua's team refuse to say they'll accept the $50 million, as I don't think they're going to accept it without knowing more... Thought money was the holdup, but it's looking like money may not be the only factor in them agreeing..


----------



## Kezza (Aug 13, 2017)

bballchump11 said:


> A juiced up Povetkin wasn't easy. And Povetkin was going to fight Stiverne after the whole meledonium case for a final eliminator to become the mandatory and failed another test for another drug.
> 
> And your last point has nothing to do with this conversation.


When did Wilder beat a Juiced up Povetkin??? We all now know he wasn't juiced up as Wilder has been sued for not fighting him.

Shit, 40 fights in a 10 year career with only 1 world level win is embarrassing.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> https://www.boxingscene.com/wilder-manager-contacts-hearn-reacts-publicity-stunt-claim--127564
> 
> Hopefully Wilder's team do not skip out on the meeting completely if Joshua's team refuse to say they'll accept the $50 million, as I don't think they're going to accept it without knowing more... Thought money was the holdup, but it's looking like money may not be the only factor in them agreeing..


Very reasonable really.

Hearn is skeptical for good reason and wants to see proof. He also doesn't want to blindly accept a deal.

Wilder's team also don't want to waste their time writing up contracts if Hearn doesn't agree on the money from the get go.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Kezza said:


> When did Wilder beat a Juiced up Povetkin??? We all now know he wasn't juiced up as Wilder has been sued for not fighting him.
> 
> Shit, 40 fights in a 10 year career with only 1 world level win is embarrassing.


It seems like you're interested in a different discussion.


----------



## Kezza (Aug 13, 2017)

bballchump11 said:


> It seems like you're interested in a different discussion.


As you keep saying AJ is ducking Wilder, i'm just showing you that AJ aint ducking nobody and if anybody has got history of avoiding world class opposition its Wilder.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Very reasonable really.
> 
> Hearn is skeptical for good reason and wants to see proof. He also doesn't want to blindly accept a deal.
> 
> Wilder's team also don't want to waste their time writing up contracts if Hearn doesn't agree on the money from the get go.


Yeah I understand Hearn not wanting to sign unless he knows the money is there, although they could probably sue if Finkel was lying and couldn't pay them the money... Also understand Finkel not wanting to waste time if they offer Joshua $50 million but they still refuse the fight because they cannot choose the venue... Just hope they meet and actually get the shit signed.


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## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

Great noises from the Wilder camp. Hearn sounds like he's squirming. AJ will be true to his word I believe and accept a 50 mil offer.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

__
http://instagr.am/p/BiDOIrnHsHQ/


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Very reasonable really.
> 
> Hearn is skeptical for good reason and wants to see proof. He also doesn't want to blindly accept a deal.
> 
> *Wilder's team also don't want to waste their time writing up contracts if Hearn doesn't agree on the money from the get go.*


Rubbish, the money is dependent on the terms of contract, if he terms are unfavourable, they will probably want more money. That's why you present an offer, not just a number. This stinks of an easy way out for Wilder but I hope not, they're trying to use AJ's words against him and present a public offer that can't be rejected, whilst behind close doors they will likely be asking for a lot more than they are letting on. This all means nothing until a proper offer is made, Brezeale still a real possibility here.

They are massively overestimating the size of the fight as well, it could realistically make 60m gate and PPV included.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BiDOIrnHsHQ/


This is why it looks like bullshit.

'Do you accept YES or NO?'

Doesn't work like that mate, get your representatives to send an offer. Everyone knows this isn't how fights are made, it looks more and more like a publicity stunt when you see this, Wilder's not stupid, he knows the fight can't be agreed on the basis of the email he sent, so what's his agenda here?


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

TFG said:


> This is why it looks like bullshit.
> 
> 'Do you accept YES or NO?'
> 
> Doesn't work like that mate, get your representatives to send an offer. Everyone knows this isn't how fights are made, it looks more and more like a publicity stunt when you see this, Wilder's not stupid, he knows the fight can't be agreed on the basis of the email he sent, so what's his agenda here?


You are correct, but at the same time, Wilder is not trying to get the deal signed sealed & delivered. - He's clearly just trying to get AJ himself on record as saying he want's the fight, under these basic terms.

Hearn could still gum up the works. Heck, Finkel & Haymon could still gum up the works, but at least both fighters would be on record as wanting this to happen. That can't exactly hurt the process, going forward.


----------



## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

I'm scoring this thing 1-1 at the moment.

Hearn has been travelling along smugly since his $12.5m offer to Wilder, believing he had the high ground.

But the counter offer has removed Hearn's swagger and clearly placed him in the land of uncertainty.

Now it's either standoff time or sit down to make a deal time. How things play out from here is anyone's guess.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> You are correct, but at the same time, Wilder is not trying to get the deal signed sealed & delivered. - He's clearly just trying to get AJ himself on record as saying he want's the fight, under these basic terms.
> 
> Hearn could still gum up the works. Heck, Finkel & Haymon could still gum up the works, but at least both fighters would be on record as wanting this to happen. That can't exactly hurt the process, going forward.


AJ commented straight away saying 'lets go', why isn't that good enough, what exactly do they want him to say?

AJ said that sounds good, Hearn said it sounds good too, he just needs to see an offer, see guarantee of the money and hammer out the terms of the deal.

No need for any of this other shit from Wilder, he knows how it works. As you say, it sounds like he wants a full agreement to this before anything has even been discussed, which suggests they are going to pull some dodgy shit.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I agree with Hearn here

https://www.boxingscene.com/hearn-50m-offer-bluff-wilders-team-meet-me--127574

"Hearn requested that meeting after Haymon and Finkel canceled a meeting that they scheduled a couple weeks ago for Thursday. Finkel indicated in an email to Hearn, a copy of which was obtained by BoxingScene.com, that a meeting would be "non-productive" if Hearn won't first commit to accepting their offer (https://www.boxingscene.com/wilder-manager-contacts-hearn-reacts-publicity-stunt-claim--127564).

"Unless their offer is a complete bluff, they have to meet me," Hearn told BoxingScene.com on Thursday, before a press conference to promote the Daniel Jacobs-Maciej Sulecki card Saturday night at Barclays Center in Brooklyn. "Otherwise, they look like fools.""


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




----------



## Boxalot (Jun 5, 2013)

http://www.skysports.com/boxing/new...ks-have-taken-a-bizarre-turn-says-eddie-hearn

So Team Wilder refuses to send a contract, refused to meet up and are fighting Brezeale next. Wish I could say I was surprised but it's exsctly as I thought.


----------



## Yolo Swaggins (May 16, 2013)

Incoming excuses for wilders BS


Boxalot said:


> http://www.skysports.com/boxing/new...ks-have-taken-a-bizarre-turn-says-eddie-hearn
> 
> So Team Wilder refuses to send a contract, refused to meet up and are fighting Brezeale next. Wish I could say I was surprised but it's exsctly as I thought.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Boxalot said:


> http://www.skysports.com/boxing/new...ks-have-taken-a-bizarre-turn-says-eddie-hearn
> 
> So Team Wilder refuses to send a contract, refused to meet up and are fighting Brezeale next. Wish I could say I was surprised but it's exsctly as I thought.


So you just blindly believe what Eddie Hearn says?

Can I interest you in some New Jersey swampland I have for sale? It's a great deal, I promise!


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Boxalot said:


> http://www.skysports.com/boxing/new...ks-have-taken-a-bizarre-turn-says-eddie-hearn
> 
> So Team Wilder refuses to send a contract, refused to meet up and are fighting Brezeale next. Wish I could say I was surprised but it's exsctly as I thought.


 that's shitty


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

https://www.boxingscene.com/hearn-wilders-team-selling-him-dream-upside-exist--127602



> "I have to see a contract," Hearn said. "It's not even really the money. We don't want to be involved in a show where you have to try and achieve the money. So what I'm saying is, if they need to get $50 million to show me, they could do it very easily. They can go and raise the finances from a bank. You can do anything you want. But it's not say a situation of, 'Where's the fight? Oh, we'll let you know.' And then go out and say to Barclays or to MGM or to Abu Dhabi or to Saudi Arabia, 'Who wants Anthony Joshua?' They don't have the right to do that.
> 
> "So we'd prefer it to go, 'All right, it's MGM, Las Vegas.' They don't even have to give us a date. It could be October. 'These are the broadcasters. All right, you've got your broadcasters that you're involved with. That's fine. This is how the media tour will work. These are your obligations.' That's how you start conversations. Not, 'Here's $50 million. Do you agree or not? You've got 24 hours. Go!' "





> "I think it's a massive fight, but there's ways to generate the numbers that you or your fighter or client wouldn't want you to do," Hearn said. "I'll give you an example. Maybe I can get $80 million from Saudi Arabia to take this fight there. Do I want to do the fight over there? Not particularly. Does Anthony? No. Maybe I could get a sponsorship of $15 million from a new virtual currency that might be a bit dodgy. Do I wanna have my fighter associated with that brand? No, I do not, regardless of the money.
> 
> "So maybe they wanna charge $100,000 for a seat in the front row. Do I wanna be involved with that? No, I don't. So it's about protecting our business, Anthony Joshua's brand and all the things that we've dealt with along the way. And until we know how they intend to raise that finance, we can't even begin to make decisions."


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Clearly the money isn't the only issue and whatever purse they guarantee won't be enough until they see the contract with every detail. Fight ain't happening next.


----------



## Yolo Swaggins (May 16, 2013)

I don’t understand why they need a promise to move forward?
a written contract is the only thing that has integrity


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Yolo Swaggins said:


> I don't understand why they need a promise to move forward?
> a written contract is the only thing that has integrity


Honestly I think they're just trying to prove Joshua wrong as he said "If it is a $100 million fight and they are happy with taking 60-40, I'll take 50-50. Give me $50 million dollars up front and I swear I'll take that fight tomorrow,".

If he sticks with that word, they get to control everything and he gets his $50 million. If there's more to it than just giving him $50 million which it seems like it is, they get to say they offered exactly what Joshua said he wanted and he'd sign the next day, but isn't. Most will see there's more to it than the purse, but that is what Joshua said and they're going to use his words against him. IMO.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Utter embarrassment from Wilder and his team of mongs.

@bballchump11 Brezeale v WIlder who you got?


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

TFG said:


> AJ commented straight away saying 'lets go', why isn't that good enough, what exactly do they want him to say?


I want him to say exactly what Wilder is asking: To say he wants the fight.

"Let's go" could mean anything, like "let's argue" or "let's start negotiations."

You seriously didn't understand Wilder's point?


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

This is bullshit. Everyone involved acting like divas.

I'm tapping out from this saga till it's signed.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> I want him to say exactly what Wilder is asking: To say he wants the fight.
> 
> "Let's go" could mean anything, like "let's argue" or "let's start negotiations."
> 
> You seriously didn't understand Wilder's point?


This is absolute rubbish.

He has said at every turn since his last fight that he wants Wilder next, he has already made Wilder an offer, and he is actively trying to engage in this offer whilst still saying 'lets go'. The hold up here is Wilder and his team refusing to meet and negotiate the offer.

You can focus on pedantic wording all you want, but AJ and Hearn are doing nothing wrong and are showing they want to make the fight. They've been sent an offer that had no terms, no location for the fight, no broadcast details etc with no guarantee of money. They are asking to discuss these details and are saying they are very interested. Team Wilder are saying no, we want a yes or no in 24 hours, no details, no terms.

I think it's you who doesn't understand the point. He's asking Joshua for a yes or no answer so that he can hold him to the answer publicly when the fight doesn't get made, that's what this whole thing is about, PR nonesense. Currently Wilder looks set to fight a guy AJ battered 5 fights ago, whereas as AJ will fight another top challenger. If this Brezeale fight happens, he is completely at fault.


----------



## Boxalot (Jun 5, 2013)

TFG said:


> This is absolute rubbish.
> 
> He has said at every turn since his last fight that he wants Wilder next, he has already made Wilder an offer, and he is actively trying to engage in this offer whilst still saying 'lets go'. The hold up here is Wilder and his team refusing to meet and negotiate the offer.
> 
> ...


There's no point arguing with Wilder fans mate, they're the worst I've ever seen on any forum.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

I'm going to wait a little while to see Wilder and team's response before fulling committing to a take on this but it's looking really bad for Wilder at the moment if the rumours are true.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

:lol: I was laughing my ass off throughout this. Hearn is a smarmy cunt but fair play to him for sticking around for quarter of an hour of this. I'm not that familiar with Tha Boxing Voice but is this usually how they conduct themselves? It's like arguing with posters on here.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

If Hearn flew all the way to NY for a contract meeting, simply because the Bronze Bambi made a very loud tweet, then he's dumber than some folks on this forum.





And Shelley Finkel is no beginner when it comes to negotiations, nor does he have a record of pulling bullshit moves.

Remember, folks, the Devil wears a really nice suit and has a winning smile. 
"The greatest trick he ever pulled ....."


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Wilder's team don't want this. Absolute jokers :rofl


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Only good thing is Hearn said he believes the fight will happen next and he said between September and December, I think he said showtime have a date in November, I wonder if AJ will sit out til then


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> If Hearn flew all the way to NY for a contract meeting, simply because the Bronze Bambi made a very loud tweet, then he's dumber than some folks on this forum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Honestly I don't know how you keep this act up so relentlessly


----------



## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Hearn is getting owned






https://www.boxingscene.com/wilder-manager-hearn-accept-well-send-proof-contract--127631


----------



## Boxalot (Jun 5, 2013)

Wilder fans - can you please finally admit your man and his team are an embarrassment, that the Brezeale fight has been signed all along and that they’re to blame for this not happening?


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> Hearn is getting owned
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Drop mic


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> Hearn is getting owned
> 
> 
> 
> ...


On the surface of it, that email seems pretty easy to debunk. In any of those examples did Hearn _refuse_ to send a contract or refuse to hold a meeting? The third example even says "after some negotiations". I'm hoping they don't think that email is their ace in the hole.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Boxalot said:


> There's no point arguing with Wilder fans mate, they're the worst I've ever seen on any forum.


Wilder fans are the worst you've ever seen? You must be new to all this internet boxing forum stuff...


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## Boxalot (Jun 5, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> Wilder fans are the worst you've ever seen? You must be new to all this internet boxing forum stuff...


Been on forums since the mid 00's mate. They're worse than Pactards. There's no reasoning with them at all. At least you could understand why people bothered to follow and support Pacquiao, but Wilder has done nothing worth supporting.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Kurushi said:


> On the surface of it, that email seems pretty easy to debunk. In any of those examples did Hearn _refuse_ to send a contract or refuse to hold a meeting? The third example even says "after some negotiations". I'm hoping they don't think that email is their ace in the hole.


It says he didnt send a contract so who knows

Im not even on Wilder's side with this I just know Hearn wants to squeeze 1 more fight in so im more against Hearn lol


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## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

This shit is ridiculous. It's Mayweather- Pacquiao all over again. Both sides are being divas


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## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Boxalot said:


> Been on forums since the mid 00's mate. They're worse than Pactards.


That is just not true. Personal opinions of fighters aside. Not even in the same UNIVERSE as Pacquiao fanboys, Oscar fanboys. Klitschko supporters, guys who think every single fighter from the 20's to the 50's would knock out contemporary fighters with half a punch etc. You're out of line for even saying it. Miss me with all that shit...


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> It says he didnt send a contract so who knows
> 
> Im not even on Wilder's side with this I just know Hearn wants to squeeze 1 more fight in so im more against Hearn lol


I honestly don't think either side want it next.


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## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Kurushi said:


> I honestly don't think either side want it next.


I think they want it. But only their way. It's getting silly now I agree, but if it leads to the fight being made THIS YEAR then i'll deal with it...


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> I think they want it. But only their way. It's getting silly now I agree, but if it leads to the fight being made THIS YEAR then i'll deal with it...


I think they would _take_ it if they could get it their way but Hearn didn't expect Wilder to take 12.5 and Wilder and team didn't expect Joshua and team to take 50 without the paperwork.

The fight will absolutely happen. If it happens next I'll be surprised. We may see it signed this year but it's got to be 2019 I'd think for the actual event.


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## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Kurushi said:


> I think they would _take_ it if they could get it their way but Hearn didn't expect Wilder to take 12.5 and Wilder and team didn't expect Joshua and team to take 50 without the paperwork.
> 
> The fight will absolutely happen. If it happens next I'll be surprised. We may see it signed this year but it's got to be 2019 I'd think for the actual event.


Could be with both sides wanting it their way. Hearn pulled the first stunt. Now Wilder counters. It's kinda fun...


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> Could be with both sides wanting it their way. Hearn pulled the first stunt. Now Wilder counters. It's kinda fun...


It is fun yeah. It's promotional foreplay to these cats. Makes the eventual fight more enjoyable for the fans and more lucrative for them.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

This whole thing has just become a media circus.

Good for business if the circus ever actually comes to town.

For that we will have to wait and see.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Boxalot said:


> Wilder fans - can you please finally admit your man and his team are an embarrassment, that the Brezeale fight has been signed all along and that they're to blame for this not happening?


You honestly don't get it. They just pulled the exact thing that team Joshua did, just so they could stop prancing about with their own silly offer.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)




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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> This whole thing has just become a media circus.
> 
> Good for business if the circus ever actually comes to town.
> 
> For that we will have to wait and see.


OK - Is it 50 mill + shares?

You know the fight is going to happen. Obviously flat fees are BS and 50 mill is a lot of money. BUT nobody hates Americans more than the UK squad so I bet there will be more to be earned than that, especially if DW keeps talking shit.

What did Tony make for Wlad? 40 mill? In @TFG 's words "He should take a career high payday" if that is actually true.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> You honestly don't get it. They just pulled the exact thing that team Joshua did, just so they could stop prancing about with their own silly offer.


There are definitely two sides to the sham that is taking place.


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> Hearn is getting owned
> 
> 
> 
> ...


terribly formatted email, who wrote this shit???


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> OK - Is it 50 mill + shares?
> 
> You know the fight is going to happen. Obviously flat fees are BS and 50 mill is a lot of money. BUT nobody hates Americans more than the UK squad so I bet there will be more to be earned than that, especially if DW keeps talking shit.
> 
> What did Tony make for Wlad? 40 mill? In @TFG 's words "He should take a career high payday" if that is actually true.


I know the fight is going to happen?

No. I wish I did though.

All I see at present is two teams posturing each other.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> I know the fight is going to happen?
> 
> No. I wish I did though.
> 
> All I see at present is two teams posturing each other.


What did Tony make vs Wlad do you know?


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> What did Tony make vs Wlad do you know?


Purses are close enough to the bottom of my interests.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> Purses are close enough to the bottom of my interests.


Fair enough brother but you know what it is.

Should it happen in Wembley or Vegas, IYO?


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Fair enough brother but you know what it is.
> 
> Should it happen in Wembley or Vegas, IYO?


I honestly couldn't care where it happens. So long as it does. Makes no difference to me.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> I honestly couldn't care where it happens. So long as it does. Makes no difference to me.


:lol:


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> :lol:


Why would it make a difference to me where it was held and what they get paid?


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> Why would it make a difference to me where it was held and what they get paid?


You do realize you're in a thread about negotiations right?


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> You do realize you're in a thread about negotiations right?


Yeah, I do, and like I said earlier, all I see at present is two teams posturing each other.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> Yeah, I do, and like I said earlier, all I see at present is two teams posturing each other.


Awesome. We get it, as long as it happens...move along now.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Awesome. We get it, as long as it happens...move along now.


Correct, as long as it happens. But what I see at present is two teams that are not as yet in negotiation.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> Correct, as long as it happens. But what I see at present is two teams that are not as yet in negotiation.


Yeah, in your heart of hearts, theyre ignoring eachother?


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Yeah, in your heart of hearts, theyre ignoring eachother?


In my heart of hearts they have not begun any form of meaningful negotiation yet. It is pure posturing so far IMO.


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

I think depending on how Big "Chunky" Baby looks tonight, both camps will begin negotiations. 

If Baby looks good, Anthony is going to fight him


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> Hearn is getting owned
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He's not telling the whole story here though is he?

Hearn made Wilder an offer and IMMEDIATELY scheduled a face to face meeting for the offer to be discussed and/or negotiated. There was no deadline like people claimed and he made it clear they were up for negotiation. He didn't require a yes or not before the meeting was going to happen.

Wilder has made an offer personally, one that clearly needs to be discussed and along with his team is now refusing to have a meeting to negotiate said offer. This fight only happens if they get together in a room and hammer it out, there's only one team trying to do that at the moment.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

TFG said:


> He's not telling the whole story here though is he?
> 
> Hearn made Wilder an offer and IMMEDIATELY scheduled a face to face meeting for the offer to be discussed and/or negotiated. There was no deadline like people claimed and he made it clear they were up for negotiation. He didn't require a yes or not before the meeting was going to happen.
> 
> Wilder has made an offer personally, one that clearly needs to be discussed and along with his team is now refusing to have a meeting to negotiate said offer. This fight only happens if they get together in a room and hammer it out, there's only one team trying to do that at the moment.


True, Wilder talking to social media is a bitch move he does look abit scared


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> True, Wilder talking to social media is a bitch move he does look abit scared


It all comes down to the meeting, all the other stuff is irrelevant.

The fight gets made if they put their heads together and hammer it out in a room, that's how it works. If one team is refusing to do that, it's probably because they're not as interested in making the fight as they say. That's the only way a fight like this gets made, not over Instagram.

Until his team agree to a proper meeting, they are ducking the fight, regardless of whether the money is legit or not.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

FloydPatterson said:


> I think depending on how Big "Chunky" Baby looks tonight, both camps will begin negotiations.
> 
> If Baby looks good, Anthony is going to fight him


Would be an American debut atleast...


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

__
http://instagr.am/p/BiIBZXSnBmX/


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BiIBZXSnBmX/


My god, Wilder is monumentally stupid.

The difference is that he is refusing all contact and won't negotiate the deal. What difference would it make exactly if AJ said 'yes I agree' on social media, as opposed to 'lets roll', is there a specific keyword that he needs to say or something? Either way the fight isn't getting made until they sit down and talk about it.

Notice you won't see any of his team justify the reason for not meeting.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BiIBZXSnBmX/


Hearn and Joshua said they're interested in the offer and scheduled a meeting to discuss it. Wilder's team do not turn up. It would be mental to accept an offer before knowing any of the details. Wilder's team do not want this, if Wilder does, which I reckon he probably does, he needs to kick Finkel to the kerb and make the fight.


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## Yolo Swaggins (May 16, 2013)

Wilders team chatting shit
Hopefully there is some kind if constructive dialogue during the next week


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## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

God, please, please, please make this fight happen...


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

To be honest, both sides are screwing this up right now. I wouldn't be able to throw blame strictly at one team if this falls apart.

Wilder should have met with Hearn on Friday. I know that weasel hadn't agreed to the deal yet, but those things can be smoothed over much easier in person. Plus Stephen Espinoza offered to mediate the negotiations. I'm sure with him there, he'd help things get running smoothly like how Leslie Moonves helped mediate Mayweather vs Pacquiao.

But Hearn is trying to trick people here, and it appears most people aren't buying his bullshit except for some AJ stans. Saying shit like "They didn't send me a contract" is just a diversion. Of course they didn't send you a contract. That's not how you do business. Hearn didn't send a contract either with his $12.5 million offer. He knows you agree to terms and then write up a contract. So him even saying that right away is just him trying to manipulate fans and the media.

I'm glad he showed up with the intent of negotiating in New York (he was in NY mainly for the Jacobs fight). But he just needs to say that he accepts the money and then he can worry about the particulars of the fight afterward. Wilder's team already said they would send the proof of funds and a contract afterward. So what's the issue? Agree to the money and then if you have any issues with the details of the fight, work on that then. The money was the biggest sticking point in the first place. 

And the whole proof of funds thing is retarded. Wilder's manager was involved in the 4 biggest fights in boxing history. He also was able to get half a billion dollars to fund the PBC.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2115599131912338



Whyte to Wilder


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> To be honest, both sides are screwing this up right now. I wouldn't be able to throw blame strictly at one team if this falls apart.
> 
> Wilder should have met with Hearn on Friday. I know that weasel hadn't agreed to the deal yet, but those things can be smoothed over much easier in person. Plus Stephen Espinoza offered to mediate the negotiations. I'm sure with him there, he'd help things get running smoothly like how Leslie Moonves helped mediate Mayweather vs Pacquiao.
> 
> ...


You are pathetic :lol:

Lapping up Shirley Winkles excuses like the fanboy you are. Wilder and his team are a joke, simple as that. You don't negotiate fights over instagram, you do it in the boardroom, which Wilder is refusing. That simple.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

TFG said:


> You are pathetic :lol:
> 
> Lapping up Shirley Winkles excuses like the fanboy you are. Wilder and his team are a joke, simple as that. You don't negotiate fights over instagram, you do it in the boardroom, which Wilder is refusing. That simple.


You're clueless.

And pathetic.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> You're clueless.
> 
> And pathetic.


I'd say you're a troll, but I'm not even sure you are, just a pure stupid cunt who actively deters people from posting in here.

You have the worst boxing knowledge of anyone I have seen try to break down fights. You're not a fan of the sweet science, you don't understand intangibles or 'nuances' like you think, you're a fucking idiot.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Why did team Wilder put up a 24hr deadline whilst cancelling the meeting, knowing full well it would be impossible to agree to the deal within that time period?

Almost as if they are full of shit, isn't it?


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> You are pathetic :lol:
> 
> Lapping up Shirley Winkles excuses like the fanboy you are. Wilder and his team are a joke, simple as that. You don't negotiate fights over instagram, you do it in the boardroom, which Wilder is refusing. That simple.


I'm not really interested in talking to your bias ass. Every topic you speak about, you latch onto one side very strongly and fail to look at any argument that refutes your views. No objectivity at all.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> But Hearn is trying to trick people here, and it appears most people aren't buying his bullshit except for some AJ stans. Saying shit like "They didn't send me a contract" is just a diversion. Of course they didn't send you a contract. That's not how you do business. Hearn didn't send a contract either with his $12.5 million offer. He knows you agree to terms and then write up a contract. So him even saying that right away is just him trying to manipulate fans and the media.



Kenny Porter explaining contracts in boxing and using Garcia vs Rios as the example.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I'm not really interested in talking to your bias ass. Every topic you speak about, you latch onto one side very strongly and fail to look at any argument that refutes your views. No objectivity at all.


Just call a spade a spade and stop being so ridiculously bias. It's really not difficult, you're annoyed because your guy is starting to look like a clown.

Try and be objective for just a minute. How does this fight get made, an instagram agreement? Saying yes instead of 'lets roll'? No. It gets made by a meeting between the relevant parties in which they discuss contract details.

Who's stopping that from happening, Hearn or Wilder and his team? You're meant to be highly educated, give me a fucking break. It's not hard to work out what's going on here. You're scraping the barrel quoting Shirley Winkel 'This is how contracts work, Eddie Hearn did the same to us' - objectively false, Eddie scheduled a face to face meeting immediately to discuss said offer and work on negotiations.

You're only mad at me because I told you Wilder would be fighting Brezeale next weeks ago and you got all stroppy about it :lol:


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Kenny Porter explaining contracts in boxing and using Garcia vs Rios as the example.


Complete rubbish.

Hearn didn't send a contract with his offer because he was willing to meet up face to face and discuss the offer, that's called a negotiation. He didn't require a yes or no before that meeting, he didn't give a 24hr deadline, he didn't refuse to engage.

Completely different, you are just too inherently bias to comprehend basic facts.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

@bballchump11



> But Hearn is trying to trick people here, and it appears most people aren't buying his bullshit except for some AJ stans. Saying shit like "They didn't send me a contract" is just a diversion. Of course they didn't send you a contract. That's not how you do business. Hearn didn't send a contract either with his $12.5 million offer. He knows you agree to terms and then write up a contract. So him even saying that right away is just him trying to manipulate fans and the media.


Lets break this down shall we, seeing as you are suddenly an expert in how contracts work now, when a couple of days ago you agreed with Hearn.



> Hearn didn't send a contract either with his $12.5 million offer.


Nope he didn't, but if Wilders team has said yes we are interested, like Hearn and AJ have done, he'd have sent a draft contract over immediately and carried on with a meeting to discuss the terms. He didn't say yes or no with no terms in 24hrs because he knows that not how you do business.



> Of course they didn't send you a contract. That's not how you do business.


Yes it is, as soon as you have established that the other party is interested, you send a draft contract and that's when the finer details and terms are negotiated.



> He knows you agree to terms and then write up a contract.


Woah, slow down. What terms are you speaking of that need to be agreed, Wilder hasn't given any terms has he?

You've hit the nail on the head here and disproven your own argument. We don't know where they want the fight to take place, we don't know the broadcasters, we don't know where the money is coming from, we don't know if there is a rematch clause, these are all terms that we don't know.

How do those terms get agreed if they won't meet and discuss them or even reveal what they are? This is why you shouldn't be so bias and desperate to create an argument in favour of Wilder, because now you just look silly. You said you agree terms then draft the contract, the team proposing the deal should already have the terms drafted, as the terms will usually effect the monetary side of the deal.



> So him even saying that right away is just him trying to manipulate fans and the media.


Right, so by asking for a meeting to try and get the fight made (the only way it does get made) Hearn is trying to manipulate the fans and media, yet the guy demanding a yes or no answer to a deal without any terms, within 24hrs on INSTAGRAM is the genuine one? Why do they want a yes or no answer to the deal before discussing any terms? So that when they do sit down and the terms aren't in Hearn's favour, they can claim they AJ has pulled out of the fight after agreeing, it's a pretty basic PR move that's clearly fooled you.



> and it appears most people aren't buying his bullshit except for some AJ stans.


Delusional.

Watch the latest FIghtHype video in which Eddie explains over and over again why they need to see the terms of the deal and meet face to face. The comments are OVERWHELMINGLY pro Hearn, and this is on an American network aimed at American fans. What evidence do you have that most people aren't buying it?

And buying what exactly, that they need to meet and discuss the deal, how ridiculous :lol:


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

TFG said:


> @bballchump11
> 
> Lets break this down shall we, seeing as you are suddenly an expert in how contracts work now, when a couple of days ago you agreed with Hearn.
> 
> ...


Why didn't Hearn wait for negotiations to start before making a public offer?


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Why didn't Hearn wait for negotiations to start before making a public offer?


This doesn't even make sense.

Negotiations start when there's an offer on the table. Hearn put out his offer directly to Wilder's management, not the media. If they showed any interest in said offer, then they would have started discussing terms. There's zero chance Hearn would have refused to send a draft contract or refuse a meeting.

It was Wilder and his team who leaked Hearn's offer, not the other way around. Your post makes no sense, looks like you're trying too hard.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

TFG said:


> This doesn't even make sense.
> 
> Negotiations start when there's an offer on the table. Hearn put out his offer directly to Wilder's management, not the media. If they showed any interest in said offer, then they would have started discussing terms. There's zero chance Hearn would have refused to send a draft contract or refuse a meeting.
> 
> It was Wilder and his team who leaked Hearn's offer, not the other way around. Your post makes no sense, looks like you're trying too hard.


You just finished saying that negotiations only get done at the table. Hearn publicly announced *to the media* that they were going to make an offer to Wilder before doing so; why was this done? And why did they try to lowball Wilder with an insulting offer?


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> You just finished saying that negotiations only get done at the table. Hearn publicly announced *to the media* that they were going to make an offer to Wilder before doing so; why was this done? And why did they try to lowball Wilder with an insulting offer?


Holy fuck, you're reaching a bit here aren't you? :lol:

Hearn said they were making an offer because AJ called out Wilder who said he has never received an offer, ergo Hearn declares they will make an offer to him, to show the public that they intend to make the fight. He then send this offer privately to Wilder's manager. This is at a time when plenty of people were claiming AJ was going to duck and there was doubts over Hearn making said offer.

You say negotiations are only done at the table then ask why Hearn sent an offer, an offer isn't a negotiation, it's an invitation to treat and enter into a negotiation period. So you asked why Hearn said publicly he is going to make an offer, that's an absurdly stupid question but I've answered it for you anyway.

As for the insulting offer, it was on the low end, but not insulting at all, it was where you'd expect their starting offer to be at. This fight may realistically only generate 60-70m, if AJ gets 50, that could be 10m for Wilder, yet 12.5m guaranteed is insulting? Even if it does 70m, 20m isn't a million miles away. Hearn made it clear the offer was up for negotiation, Wilder could have gotten more out of it.

Ask anyone who is involved in business, you never refuse a meeting with someone you want to do business with, that's literally 101, it's baffling that you can't see the issue.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

TFG said:


> Holy fuck, you're reaching a bit here aren't you? :lol:
> 
> Hearn said they were making an offer because AJ called out Wilder who said he has never received an offer, ergo Hearn declares they will make an offer to him, to show the public that they intend to make the fight. He then send this offer privately to Wilder's manager. This is at a time when plenty of people were claiming AJ was going to duck and there was doubts over Hearn making said offer.
> 
> ...


They were so pissed off about Wilder calling out AJ that they made an offer that they knew would only lead to bad faith negotiations, at best? How does this make sense to you?

And in what world should Joshua receive an 80/20 split for such a fight? If the fight "only did 60-70 million", why on earth would Joshua get 50 of it?

You seem to think that any sort of negotiation produces a fight. Bad faith negotiations only delay fights from happening.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> They were so pissed off about Wilder calling out AJ that they made an offer that they knew would only lead to bad faith negotiations, at best? How does this make sense to you?
> 
> And in what world should Joshua receive an 80/20 split for such a fight? If the fight "only did 60-70 million", why on earth would Joshua get 50 of it?
> 
> You seem to think that any sort of negotiation produces a fight. Bad faith negotiations only delay fights from happening.


So you're blaming this lack of negotiation on Hearns original offer rather than Wilder and his team refusing to meet up and discuss an offer they claim to be making? That's an interesting spin but I appreciate you need something.

The reality is that AJ v Wilder is a monumental mismatch in terms of drawing power, AJ brings everything in that fight. Wilder earns $2m a fight, AJ earns more than 10x that. That's not Joshua's fault is it? It's not his fault Wilder isn't a draw. Joshua would get 50m because that's what Wilder is offering, can you at least try and keep up? Whatever is left would go to Wilder. It's entirely possible that Wilder could end up with less than what Hearn offers, especially if the PPV doesn't do great in the US. That suggests the offer isn't as insulting as you claim.

As for an offer that they knew would lead to 'bad faith', that's simply a cop out and a terrible excuse. If they want to get upset because they got offered 6x their highest purse then that's on then, they're still the one stalling the fight whether they are pissed off or not. The offer was open to negotiation, they knew that. It doesn't matter anyway, when you're the clear B side you've got to expect to work for the right deal, Parker did. At the moment the deal is from Wilder and his team are refusing to reveal any terms, meet face to face or negotiate at all, that's what we have currently.


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## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Wow...


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

TFG said:


> So you're blaming this lack of negotiation on Hearns original offer rather than Wilder and his team refusing to meet up and discuss an offer they claim to be making? That's an interesting spin but I appreciate you need something.
> 
> The reality is that AJ v Wilder is a monumental mismatch in terms of drawing power, AJ brings everything in that fight. Wilder earns $2m a fight, AJ earns more than 10x that. That's not Joshua's fault is it? It's not his fault Wilder isn't a draw. Joshua would get 50m because that's what Wilder is offering, can you at least try and keep up? Whatever is left would go to Wilder. It's entirely possible that Wilder could end up with less than what Hearn offers, especially if the PPV doesn't do great in the US. That suggests the offer isn't as insulting as you claim.
> 
> As for an offer that they knew would lead to 'bad faith', that's simply a cop out and a terrible excuse. If they want to get upset because they got offered 6x their highest purse then that's on then, they're still the one stalling the fight whether they are pissed off or not. The offer was open to negotiation, they knew that. It doesn't matter anyway, when you're the clear B side you've got to expect to work for the right deal, Parker did. At the moment the deal is from Wilder and his team are refusing to reveal any terms, meet face to face or negotiate at all, that's what we have currently.


Joshua himself said that he would accept 50 milllion "if it was a 100 million dollar fight", so the argument that you are making in his favor isn't even a position that he had taken. He himself said that he would accept 50/50 as long as he got his money, so your 80/20, again, is way out of line for a fight of this magnitude.

No one is stupid. Team Wilder was NEVER going to accept 12.5 while Joshua basically got a blank check to pocket everything else. The offer did not start negotiations; the only attempt there was to try and silence Wilder, who had been calling out Joshua relentlessly, while AJ kept telling us that he wasn't ready yet.

The 50 million dollar figure was conjured up by Joshua... yet this, according to you, is 150% more than he typically makes for a fight. Why is he anticipating, asking, or hoping for such an increase in pay while fighting such a "non draw" as Wilder?


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Joshua himself said that he would accept 50 milllion "if it was a 100 million dollar fight", so the argument that you are making in his favor isn't even a position that he had taken. He himself said that he would accept 50/50 as long as he got his money, so your 80/20, again, is way out of line for a fight of this magnitude.
> 
> No one is stupid. Team Wilder was NEVER going to accept 12.5 while Joshua basically got a blank check to pocket everything else. The offer did not start negotiations; the only attempt there was to try and silence Wilder, who had been calling out Joshua relentlessly, while AJ kept telling us that he wasn't ready yet.
> 
> The 50 million dollar figure was conjured up by Joshua... yet this, according to you, is 150% more than he typically makes for a fight. Why is he anticipating, asking, or hoping for such an increase in pay while fighting such a "non draw" as Wilder?


Stevie you are confused and not making sense. All I can recommend is that you read back through the posts and try to work out what's going on. Your first paragraph is completely random and doesn't address anything I said to you. Joshua was laughing at the idea this was a 100m fight, that's why he asked for 50m. If the fight generates 60m, Wilder walks away with 10...

You are trying way too hard and showing extreme bias. You could easily talk about the obvious road block here in that Wilders team are REFUSING to meet, but youd rather make stuff up and talk about 'bad faith' which is nonsense. Hearn is trying to make the fight, Wilder and his team are not, it's that simple.

Try not to be such a fanboy like Bball, you yanks are coming out with some creative bullshit.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

'They knew that offer would lead to bad faith negotiations' :lol:

Cry him a fucking river. The original offer was fine, if he wanted more he could have negotiated more. We've moved on now and are focusing on Wilders offer. His offer doesn't exist as he is refusing to reveal any terms and is refusing to meet. Thats what is currently stopping the fight from happening, that's the reality. You won't address this and are instead making excuses about something that is no longer important.

Focus on the now and who is stopping the fight from happening.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

TFG said:


> Stevie you are confused and not making sense. All I can recommend is that you read back through the posts and try to work out what's going on. Your first paragraph is completely random and doesn't address anything I said to you. Joshua was laughing at the idea this was a 100m fight, that's why he asked for 50m. If the fight generates 60m, Wilder walks away with 10...
> 
> You are trying way too hard and showing extreme bias. You could easily talk about the obvious road block here in that Wilders team are REFUSING to meet, but youd rather make stuff up and talk about 'bad faith' which is nonsense. Hearn is trying to make the fight, Wilder and his team are not, it's that simple.
> 
> Try not to be such a fanboy like Bball, you yanks are coming out with some creative bullshit.


You are completely out of your mind and arguing all over the place. On one hand, you argue that the 12.5 million was on the low end and a "starting point" for negotiations, and now you are arguing that 10 million is reasonable for Wilder. An 83/17 split is somehow reasonable here? Which is it?

Why should the fight do 60 million, anyway, if Wilder is bringing nothing to the table? Why would Joshua be in line for a 150% increase for a Dillian Whyte level B-side? Did he do similar numbers with Whyte? Please answer without humiliating yourself any further.

I am disappointed that Deontay did not go and mediate, but if the other guy is going to offer BS and try to justify it, he may as well take a couple more fights and try to increase the offer to something more reasonable than your 83/17 split before coming to the table. Wilder has been relentlessly calling out Joshua for more than a year, to the point that team Joshua actually warned him to stop talking or there would be no fight. When they finally do respond, they make a comical offer that clowns like you run around with, pretending that it was some sort of start to a negotiation. It wasn't. A joke is what it was.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> You are completely out of your mind and arguing all over the place. On one hand, you argue that the 12.5 million was on the low end and a "starting point" for negotiations, and now you are arguing that 10 million is reasonable for Wilder. An 83/17 split is somehow reasonable here? Which is it?
> 
> Why should the fight do 60 million, anyway, if Wilder is bringing nothing to the table? Why would Joshua be in line for a 150% increase for a Dillian Whyte level B-side? Did he do similar numbers with Whyte? Please answer without humiliating yourself any further.
> 
> I am disappointed that Deontay did not go and mediate, but if the other guy is going to offer BS and try to justify it, he may as well take a couple more fights and try to increase the offer to something more reasonable than your 83/17 split before coming to the table. Wilder has been relentlessly calling out Joshua for more than a year, to the point that team Joshua actually warned him to stop talking or there would be no fight. When they finally do respond, they make a comical offer that clowns like you run around with, pretending that it was some sort of start to a negotiation. It wasn't. A joke is what it was.


No Stevie you are confused, plain and simple. This is what happens when you reach around for bullshit to defend your guy.

Where did I say 10m was reasonable? You are flat out making stuff up. I'll break this down one last time for you. You are saying 12.5m is an insulting offer, Wilder is now offering Joshua 50m. That means Wilders purse will be whatever is left. If the fight generates 60m, that's means Wilder is left with 10m. That suggests 12.5m isn't that much of an insulting offer doesn't it? I said specifically it was low but not far away at all, certainly not insulting to the point he should spit his dummy out and duck the fight.

Wilder brings more than Dillian Whyte, but that doesn't mean AJ isn't the A side in this fight by a huge margin. Joshua is only getting 50m because Wilder has offered him it. If this fight is on in the UK, it won't draw significantly more than the Parker fight.

Yeah Wilder has been calling out AJ for months only to produce this pathetic public display when it comes to actually making the fight. Hearns offer WAS an invitation to negotiate whether you like it or not, that is simply a fact, though I know you generally don't work with those. At the very best Wilder is worth a little bit more than what is being offered by Hearn. You have no argument, none.

If Wilder wants to run away and fight more bums for peanuts then that's on him, but don't try and spin that on AJ. They are interested in Wilders offer, he just won't reveal what it is. You refuse to address this though because you know you can't defend it. Thats the reason the fight won't happen right now, if Wilder and his team meet with Hearn there's a good chance it gets made.

As usual you argue from a place completely devoid of fact and reality. You won't even talk about Wilders offer you clown :lol:


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Apparently I am 'completely out of my mind' for believing that Wilder should meet with Hearn and talk about the offer or in other words make the fucking fight :lol:

Hearns original offer being too low is not an excuse for Wilders current negotiation tactic. 

Wilder fans are on another level, this is pactard level of idiocy.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

TFG said:


> No Stevie you are confused, plain and simple. This is what happens when you reach around for bullshit to defend your guy.
> 
> Where did I say 10m was reasonable? You are flat out making stuff up. I'll break this down one last time for you. You are saying 12.5m is an insulting offer, Wilder is now offering Joshua 50m. That means Wilders purse will be whatever is left. If the fight generates 60m, that's means Wilder is left with 10m. That suggests 12.5m isn't that much of an insulting offer doesn't it? I said specifically it was low but not far away at all, certainly not insulting to the point he should spit his dummy out and duck the fight.
> 
> ...


"If the fight does 60 million, Wilder walks away with 10". Who does that sound like? I promise I'm not making this up. The fight isn't going to only to do 60 million, and even if it did, that would be Wilder's problem to deal with. Deontay Wilder isn't negotiating against himself. He knows, and Joshua knows as well, that the fight is worth more than that. This is exactly why Hearn tried to con Wilder into taking relative peanuts when compared to Joshua's blank check.

... But why, @TFG , oh why would the fight do "only" 60 million and be considered somewhat of a failure in doing so? Did Joshua/Whyte do 60 million? Parker? Takam? Shall I continue? Wilder may not be a huge draw, but you people will have to start respecting what he does bring to the table or you will continue to make yourself look like a confused court jester. The world wants to see this fight. There is a real buzz here that was absent from Eric Molina (LOL). The fight will sell; it is the biggest heavyweight fight that we will see for 10 years.

... Joshua is getting fat from those 20 million dollar paydays and is simply trying to get a few more while holding off the grumbling boxing world. Dumb, flat offers are useful in silencing and pacifying the most braindead segment of his fans.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> "If the fight does 60 million, Wilder walks away with 10". Who does that sound like? I promise I'm not making this up. The fight isn't going to only to do 60 million, and even if it did, that would be Wilder's problem to deal with. Deontay Wilder isn't negotiating against himself. He knows, and Joshua knows as well, that the fight is worth more than that. This is exactly why Hearn tried to con Wilder into taking relative peanuts when compared to Joshua's blank check.
> 
> ... But why, @TFG , oh why would the fight do "only" 60 million and be considered somewhat of a failure in doing so? Did Joshua/Whyte do 60 million? Parker? Takam? Shall I continue? Wilder may not be a huge draw, but you people will have to start respecting what he does bring to the table or you will continue to make yourself look like a confused court jester. The world wants to see this fight. There is a real buzz here that was absent from Eric Molina (LOL). The fight will sell; it is the biggest heavyweight fight that we will see for 10 years.
> 
> ... Joshua is getting fat from those 20 million dollar paydays and is simply trying to get a few more while holding off the grumbling boxing world. Dumb, flat offers are useful in silencing and pacifying the most braindead segment of his fans.


It sounds like me using basic math to tell you the purse Wilder would be left with. You said I claimed that was reasonable, can you show me that please because what you just quoted doesn't say that at all :think1

Why are you so fixated with talking about Hearns offer? We have a new one on the table that EVERYONE is interested in. The old offer doesn't matter anymore Stevie. You're only talking about that becayse you can't defend what is going on currently.

We should be talking about Wilders offer which is a very good one for AJ. Why aren't we? Because Winkel and co are blowing smoke up everyone's arse and refusing to reveal any of the terms and will not negotiate the offer. It wasn't rejected, they just asked to see it. Thats as reasonable as it gets. The onus is on them to produce the offer.

It's not difficult, there's a favourable offer on the table that all parties are interested in. Wilder and his team are REFUSING to engage in that. Until they do, it's on them. Don't be surprised if Wilder runs off and fights Brezeale.

You started this by trying to criticise Eddie for publicly stating that he was going to make an offer :lol:


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

TFG said:


> It sounds like me using basic math to tell you the purse Wilder would be left with. You said I claimed that was reasonable, can you show me that please because what you just quoted doesn't say that at all :think1
> 
> Why are you so fixated with talking about Hearns offer? We have a new one on the table that EVERYONE is interested in. The old offer doesn't matter anymore Stevie. You're only talking about that becayse you can't defend what is going on currently.
> 
> ...


For the fourth time, why would the fight do a *low estimate* of 60 million if Joshua is bringing everything to the table, @TFG ?

Maybe smilies represent actual language for court jesters, but I don't follow.

Thanks.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> For the fourth time, why would the fight do a *low estimate* of 60 million if Joshua is bringing everything to the table, @TFG ?
> 
> Maybe smilies represent actual language for court jesters, but I don't follow.
> 
> Thanks.


Why are you dodging everything else? What you're asking is a deflection that has nothing to do with Wilder refusing to meet and reveal his offer. You are still stuck on Hearns original offer which was open to negotiation, a fact you continually deny.

I've already answered your question on this, you were probably too busy deflecting to notice. AJ is the huge A side here whether you like it or not. The original offer was low but not far off what he should realistically expect.

If Wilder wants more than that then he should have taken the risks Joshua took on his career, he shouldn't have fought bums for 10 years. He could have taken on Wlad and got control long before AJ. He still has the opportunity to negotiate Hearns offer to a better amount, but for now he is the one making an offer and everyone is interested. What's the current hold up Stevie can you answer this question please?

The fact you won't even comment on Wilder and his latest offer says it all really, you want to talk about anything but and make excuses for what is happening currently. Hearns original offer is not an excuse for refusing a meeting and refusing to reveal any terms of the offer.


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## Yolo Swaggins (May 16, 2013)

meaningfull negotiations wont begin until both teams attend a meeting
Where they can discuss the details

wilders team have avoided this for whatever reason by not turning up to set meeting.


Those are the facts.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Yolo Swaggins said:


> meaningfull negotiations wont begin until both teams attend a meeting
> Where they can discuss the details
> 
> wilders team have avoided this for whatever reason by not turning up to set meeting.
> ...


Yep. I negotiate contracts for a living (not boxing ones admittedly) and do not understand how Team Wilder's approach can be seen as anything near constructive. Hearn made an offer, Wilder refused. Wilder made an offer, Hearn and Joshua expressed interest, Team Wilder shut down further discussion. If they want the fight, why?


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Yep. I negotiate contracts for a living (not boxing ones admittedly) and do not understand how Team Wilder's approach can be seen as anything near constructive. Hearn made an offer, Wilder refused. Wilder made an offer, Hearn and Joshua expressed interest, Team Wilder shut down further discussion. If they want the fight, why?





TFG said:


> Why are you dodging everything else? What you're asking is a deflection that has nothing to do with Wilder refusing to meet and reveal his offer. You are still stuck on Hearns original offer which was open to negotiation, a fact you continually deny.
> 
> I've already answered your question on this, you were probably too busy deflecting to notice. AJ is the huge A side here whether you like it or not. The original offer was low but not far off what he should realistically expect.
> 
> ...


I am not in favor of Wilder refusing to negotiate, but a mediation is a bit different than a negotiation. In a mediation, there is an independent arbitrator which hears both sides and basically tells you what you are worth. In this environment, Wilder has no chance of getting market value for what he brings to this fight. A mediation often does not lead to a fight, as one side invariably walks away unhappy with the valuation. What's more, the mediation can actually be used against him in future negotiations.

For now, Deontay Wilder should continue to do exactly what he is doing; continue to call out Joshua publicly and get him to bite whileule giving up more of the purse. He's close.

A mediation is only needed when two guys can't come together after a negotiation. These two haven't even started negotiating yet


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

pretty simple at 5:00


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> pretty simple at 5:00


Mate, Warren HATES Hearn. The idea of getting an impartial opinion on something that Hearn is involved in, from Frank Warren...is laughable. Warren used to use a column in a national UK newspaper just to attack and criticise boxers who had the nerve to either not sign with him or leave him. He is a very petty man who multiple times threatened legal action to ESB if British posters criticised Warren shows in the UK etc. :lol:

It's good that he is not allowing Hearn to monopolise the UK scene, and at times I find his rants entertaining, but the guy is biased as fuck.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Strike said:


> Mate, Warren HATES Hearn. The idea of getting an impartial opinion on something that Hearn is involved in, from Frank Warren...is laughable. Warren used to use a column in a national UK newspaper just to attack and criticise boxers who had the nerve to either not sign with him or leave him. He is a very petty man who multiple times threatened legal action to ESB if British posters criticised Warren shows in the UK etc. :lol:
> 
> It's good that he is not allowing Hearn to monopolise the UK scene, and at times I find his rants entertaining, but the guy is biased as fuck.


I think I remember hearing something about their feud. What he's saying is still on point though. There's not much to discuss when it comes to the money. Agree to it and the rest will be worked out


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Strike said:


> Mate, Warren HATES Hearn. The idea of getting an impartial opinion on something that Hearn is involved in, from Frank Warren...is laughable. Warren used to use a column in a national UK newspaper just to attack and criticise boxers who had the nerve to either not sign with him or leave him. He is a very petty man who multiple times threatened legal action to ESB if British posters criticised Warren shows in the UK etc. :lol:
> 
> It's good that he is not allowing Hearn to monopolise the UK scene, and at times I find his rants entertaining, but the guy is biased as fuck.


I don't pay much attention to the British scene and even I knew there was beef between Hearn and Warren. atsch


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> I think I remember hearing something about their feud. What he's saying is still on point though. There's not much to discuss when it comes to the money. Agree to it and the rest will be worked out


Aye, but Hearn asked for a meeting. Just saying "$50 million" on social media is meaningless. That said, I don't trust Hearn's word either...and I sure as fuck don't trust Haymon. So it's basically a load of "he said, she said" from two parties who are as untrustworthy as fuck. :lol:

If they have that much money for a guarantee, then why the fuck has Wilder being earning less than $2 million for basically every fight bar his last?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Strike said:


> Aye, but Hearn asked for a meeting. Just saying "$50 million" on social media is meaningless. That said, I don't trust Hearn's word either...and I sure as fuck don't trust Haymon. So it's basically a load of "he said, she said" from two parties who are as untrustworthy as fuck. :lol:
> 
> If they have that much money for a guarantee, then why the fuck has Wilder being earning less than $2 million for basically every fight bar his last?


I think both sides have decent points and both are being hard headed. Wilder's team is saying what's the point of meeting if you haven't agreed on the biggest sticking point?

But at the same time, cancelling a meeting like they isn't showing a good effort to make the fight. They could have probably figured everything out there.

If both sides really want the fight, it can be made. And I'm guessing Haymom found some naive investors to get the money.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Strike said:


> Aye, but Hearn asked for a meeting. Just saying "$50 million" on social media is meaningless. That said, I don't trust Hearn's word either...and I sure as fuck don't trust Haymon. So it's basically a load of "he said, she said" from two parties who are as untrustworthy as fuck. :lol:
> 
> If they have that much money for a guarantee, then why the fuck has Wilder being earning less than $2 million for basically every fight bar his last?


All true points.

And yet, all AJ had to say was "Yes, I accept your offer. Send us a contract to review." And that would have been it.

But Hearn would no longer be the big cheese, and he obviously can't have that. - Just as Al Haymon has destroyed many fights due to HIS ego.

This is all very obvious.

The only thing that we can't know for sure is if AJ wants the fight, and is being held back by his people, or if he's also ducking Wilder. I suspect the former.


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> All true points.
> 
> And yet, all AJ had to say was "Yes, I accept your offer. Send us a contract to review." And that would have been it.


Aye true.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Wilder and team look really bad here.

Hearn made the first offer thinking it wouldn't be accepted. Flat fee offers are always low ball as has been proved repeatedly. As I said from the beginning it was a PR move aimed at getting public opinion on their side. Had Wilder and team _actually _expressed an interest in the $12.5 million offer there's no doubt that meetings and negotiations would have happened.

Wilder's offer was also made thinking it wouldn't be accepted. Again, it was a PR move aimed at getting public opinion on their side and nothing else. The problem is that both Joshua and Hearn expressed a lot of interest in it. Joshua said "Let's roll" and Hearn said "we're very interested in the offer let's talk". I don't believe that could have been the reaction Wilder and team were expecting because the subsequent cancellation of the meeting (that it's quite reasonable to assume could have led to the fight getting signed) made Wilder's team look like they weren't serious about the offer and that they didn't want the fight. Whatever they were expecting it can't have been what happened because, as an indicator of _not _wanting to get the fight made, that meeting cancellation is head and shoulders above anything else that's happened.

People can split hairs about Joshua and team's non-explicit acceptance of the offer being the same thing as declining it (obviously it isn't the same thing) but the margin between "let's roll", "we're very interested, let's talk" and "yes we accept" is so small that to cancel the meeting because of it makes it look like Wilder's move backfired with Joshua and Hearn essentially calling his bluff and then Wilder and team left looking like their mouths wrote a cheque that their asses couldn't cash.

It makes _zero _sense to cancel that meeting when the interest in the offer was so clearly expressed.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

https://www.boxingscene.com/joshua-wilder-hearn-reveals-postitive-talks-70-chance-deal--127770

Eddie Hearn, promoter for IBF, IBO, WBA, WBO heavyweight champion Anthony Joshua (21-0, 20 KOs), has revealed that his most recent discussions to make a showdown with WBC champion Deontay Wilder (40-0, 39 KOs) have been very positive.

The two sides have been haggling over the money in recent weeks.

Initially, Hearn issued an offer of $12.5 million to Wilder - which the unbeaten champion and his team felt was far too low.

Team Wilder countered with a guaranteed offer of $50 million.

Hearn and Joshua wanted to proof of funds - which they apparently received from Wilder co-manager Shelly Finkel.

The two sides have been in communication over the past two days, with very positive talks, and Hearn believes the fight is now much closer to coming off.

Asked how likely the fight was to be agreed, Hearn exclusively told Sky Sports: "70 percent."

"Their side has been very vocal in letting the media know about everything that is happening. We've had some positive conversations over the past day or so. Negotiations are ongoing and we're all hopeful to reach an agreement."

Hearn issued some additional questions to Team Wilder, which the British promoter believes will be a true turning point in getting a deal wrapped up.

" I will go back with some very simple questions, which hopefully they can answer, to put us in a position to know whether it is worth talking. We sent them [on Tuesday] night. They can't not answer those questions. I believe they want to make the fight," Hearn said.

If a deal is not reached for whatever reason, Joshua will likely make a mandatory defense against Alexander Povetkin of Russia.

The WBA recently ordered Joshua to make a mandatory defense against Povetkin.

"Povetkin is the guy we have to fight next," Hearn explained. "If we fight Wilder, Povetkin will wait. Would we apply for a voluntary? Maybe. Would the WBA allow it? Maybe. But, really, it is Wilder or Povetkin. We are talking to Miller, but mainly we are talking to Povetkin because he is the guy we'll have to fight if we don't fight Wilder."


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Lol Wilder didn't offer $50 million thinking it wouldn't be accepted plus 50/50 on any profits after that.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Fast Eddie sez: 

"Gosh darn it, we really wanna' fight Wilder, honest we do, but those bastards are MAKING us fight the aging, non-roided Povetkin."


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> Lol Wilder didn't offer $50 million thinking it wouldn't be accepted plus 50/50 on any profits after that.


There is a real contradiction in what Wilder's team has said of late.

1. Wilder deserves 50/50.
2. We guarantee AJ $50 million MINIMUM.

Right, so why did Wilder earn just $2.1 million for Ortiz, and less than $1 million for some world title defences? IF his team can guarantee 50 mill for AJ and stick to the notion that Wilder warrants a 50/50 split...that means that they are putting up $100 million. So why the fuck was Wilder earning 2% of this projected purse for world title fights organised by the same team? It means one of three things...

Either that money was never available until AJ was the potential opponent, meaning that this huge sum is covered because of AJ. Wilder vs every other opponent in his career could never generate enough to cover a $100 million collected purse, thus...AJ IS the fucking draw, and by their own maths Wilder does not warrant 50/50.

OR...Wilder is not getting the same as AJ, and AJ's guarantee of $50 million is much more than what Wilder is getting...soooo...they recognise Wilder does not warrant 50/50.

OR...finally...they have the money, it's nothing to do with AJ, and they have just been ripping Wilder off for his entire world championship reign and paying him $1 million purses where he is generating enough to warrant 15-20 times that on his own. :lol:

All of that said, I don't really give a fuck, and just want to see this fight.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Strike said:


> There is a real contradiction in what Wilder's team has said of late.
> 
> 1. Wilder deserves 50/50.
> 2. We guarantee AJ $50 million MINIMUM.
> ...


Wilder's team said they'd take less money for the fight and would agree to 60/40 split. The $50 million offer originated from Joshua. He said that he'd sign immediately if they could guarantee him that and didn't care about the split. So that's what they basically did. I doubt WIlder himself is getting $50 million guarantee. If he is, then Haymon really tricked some poor investors :yep


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> Wilder's team said they'd take less money for the fight and would agree to 60/40 split. The $50 million offer originated from Joshua. He said that he'd sign immediately if they could guarantee him that and didn't care about the split. So that's what they basically did. I doubt WIlder himself is getting $50 million guarantee. If he is, then Haymon really tricked some poor investors :yep


That still means they contradicted themselves. They spent months saying it should be 50/50. BUT...who cares, so long as it gets made.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

The $50m offer is pretty simple, when you're offering that amount of money on the back of someone that earns 2m a fight, you need to to see the terms of the deal before saying I accept that OFFER. The terms will usually influence the monetary amount, and could easily be conflicting to the point that the deal is no longer worth it. 

Why is it not ok for Hearn to say we are very interested, lets talk, as oppose to, yes I agree to the offer? Both of those options should lead to the same thing, face to face negotiations. 

Team Wilder want that official yes I accept so they can use it against Hearn to the public, it's just more PR games. You shouldn't accept any deal like this without seeing the terms, especially when it's all played out in the public and you know Haymon and co are playing games to try and get more leverage. 

Hearn has clearly made them look silly with this offer, the likely conclusion I see now is he will up his original offer and the fight gets made by Matchroom.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

The first casualty in this Joshua-Wilder thing was truth. Thankfully I recognized that and got over it early days, and it has spared me the frustration others have been suffering and taking out on each other.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> The first casualty in this Joshua-Wilder thing was truth. Thankfully I recognized that and got over it early days, and it has spared me the frustration others have been suffering and taking out on each other.


I said all along that it was all PR.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

"But Hearn said" :lol:


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> "But Hearn said" :lol:


Who is that joker :lol: The guy has no evidence proof of funds were sent, so why is he saying Hearn is lying? He's got no inside info and I've never even heard of the guy

Wilder's team are making a mess of this. All they need to do is either front up the money, meet Hearn and Joshua and discuss the terms of the _very serious offer_ or accept they are the B side and take Joshua's offer. This is why Haymon has had to come in and try and sort this out.


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## marklbs (May 2, 2018)

JamieC said:


> Who is that joker :lol: The guy has no evidence proof of funds were sent, so why is he saying Hearn is lying? He's got no inside info and I've never even heard of the guy
> 
> Wilder's team are making a mess of this. All they need to do is either front up the money, meet Hearn and Joshua and discuss the terms of the _very serious offer_ or accept they are the B side and take Joshua's offer. This is why Haymon has had to come in and try and sort this out.


The sharp minded individual cannot differentiate between the content of an article and the actual quotes of Hearn.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Who is that joker :lol: The guy has no evidence proof of funds were sent, so why is he saying Hearn is lying? He's got no inside info and I've never even heard of the guy
> 
> Wilder's team are making a mess of this. All they need to do is either front up the money, meet Hearn and Joshua and discuss the terms of the _very serious offer_ or accept they are the B side and take Joshua's offer. This is why Haymon has had to come in and try and sort this out.


Hearn admitted to getting proof of funds


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## marklbs (May 2, 2018)

bballchump11 said:


> Hearn admitted to getting proof of funds


When was this?


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> Hearn admitted to getting proof of funds


Did he? I missed this, you got a link?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Did he? I missed this, you got a link?





marklbs said:


> When was this?


Sorry, I think I got the story mixed up. Here's the article I was referring to, but the quote isn't from Hearn saying he received them

https://www.boxingscene.com/joshua-wilder-hearn-reveals-postitive-talks-70-chance-deal--127770


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I'll slap anybody who brings up Breazeale again

https://www.boxingscene.com/barry-hearn-wants-joshua-delay-wilder-fight-explains-why--127935

*Barry Hearn Wants Joshua To Delay Wilder Fight, Explains Why*

Anthony Joshua should consider waiting 12 months before fighting Deontay Wilder in a world heavyweight title unification fight, according to Barry Hearn.

However, veteran promoter Hearn will stay out of the decision-making process, he promised, when he meets WBO, IBF, IBO and WBA champion Joshua on Tuesday for talks about the next steps in his career.

Matchroom chairman Hearn has put his son Eddie in charge of guiding Joshua's career, but he still takes a view of what would be the smartest next step.

Wilder, who holds the WBC version of the title, last month made the unusual move of emailing Joshua directly to insist his backers had the money - worth
£35.9 million [$50 million] - for a bout which could take place later this year.

Hearn junior explained that he still required plenty of assurances before committing to any deal.

However, his father mentioned the possibility of Manchester United's Old Trafford ground hosting a future Joshua fight, saying: "It's possible.

"I have a meeting with Anthony Joshua on Tuesday with Eddie, before Eddie goes off to New York.

"The decision is numbers - it's a numbers game and it's nothing to do with boxing. It's purely to do with 'that's what you get if you fight Alexander Povetkin, that's what you get if you fight Jarrell Miller, that's what you get if you fight Deontay Wilder in England, that's what you get if you fight Deontay Wilder in America. And I don't fight, so it's your call because you're the guv'nor, you're running heavyweight boxing.'

"The Deontay Wilder fight, if I was Anthony Joshua, I'd be leaving that for a little while.

"Not because I'm worried about Deontay Wilder but at this moment in time maybe I'm looking at 500,000 to 600,000 pay-per-view buyers. In a year, done properly I might be looking at two million, two and a half million pay-per-view buyers."










Joshua has said he is "95 percent" certain to fight American Wilder this year, but a deal has yet to be agreed.

Barry Hearn said: "I said to Anthony: 'If you had six months to live I would say go and fight Deontay Wilder, take the most money, but if you're saying to me that you've got a legacy plan then I'm saying let's capitalise on it properly.'

"That's his decision and his team's, because I don't do the boxing. But it's a credible way of doing business. If you start letting the fans be the matchmaker you'll end up being skint.

"When you talk about Anthony Joshua, I believe he's planning another eight years at the top.

"So if he is, and he takes that view, the only thing that can derail him is getting beaten. That fear of getting beaten is what pushes him in the gym every day.

"The reason our meeting is starting at two o'clock tomorrow is so that he can fit a gym session in in the morning. While he's got that attitude I don't have a worry about anyone beating Anthony Joshua.

"I just have the worry over whether I'm getting the maximum amount of money for my client, because that's my job. His job is knocking people out."


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Oh is this is why they haven't accepted the $50 million?

https://www.boxingscene.com/hearn-joshua-wants-wilder-he-wants-fight-uk--128039


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## Guest (May 11, 2018)

bballchump11 said:


> Oh is this is why they haven't accepted the $50 million?
> 
> https://www.boxingscene.com/hearn-joshua-wants-wilder-he-wants-fight-uk--128039


They haven't rejected the offer.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Rob said:


> They haven't rejected the offer.


They haven't accepted either


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## Kezza (Aug 13, 2017)

bballchump11 said:


> They haven't accepted either


You don't accept anything if you don't know the terms and conditions, anybody that does is an idiot.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Kezza said:


> You don't accept anything if you don't know the terms and conditions, anybody that does is an idiot.


And it's impossible to know the terms and conditions if people won't even meet with you to discuss them. Good thing Wilder's team saw sense and decided to actually talk business instead of posting on Instagram and cancelling meetings.


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## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

I actually would rather see it in the UK for the crowd aspect being this is the biggest heavyweight fight in like 15 years. But really I don't care where it's at as long as they agree and get the fight done!


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Kezza said:


> You don't accept anything if you don't know the terms and conditions, anybody that does is an idiot.


You can accept the money and worry about the rest afterward.


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## Guest (May 12, 2018)

bballchump11 said:


> You can accept the money and worry about the rest afterward.


Which is what they are doing right now.


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## errsta (May 16, 2013)

Fight in Australia or New Zealand and be done with it


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah...

It's all just a bunch of noise, no matter what we think.


If Eddie Hearn wanted this fight to happen in 2018, the contracts would already be signed.

the end,


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Rob said:


> Which is what they are doing right now.


Let's keep our fingers crossed


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Do y'all want to bring up Breazeale again?


__
http://instagr.am/p/Biw1uAaAwtQ/


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## Guest (May 14, 2018)

bballchump11 said:


> Do y'all want to bring up Breazeale again?
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Biw1uAaAwtQ/


Having a meeting with your mandatorys team and the mandatory coming out and saying the fight is agreed and going to happen within a certain timeframe are 2 very different things.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Rob said:


> Having a meeting with your mandatorys team and the mandatory coming out and saying the fight is agreed and going to happen within a certain timeframe are 2 very different things.


I hear that, but I didn't hear that type of rational talk when Breazeale name kept getting brought up as Wilder's next opponent.


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## Guest (May 14, 2018)

bballchump11 said:


> I hear that, but I didn't hear that type of rational talk when Breazeale name kept getting brought up as Wilder's next opponent.


Because the fight is agreed with provisional dates. It's levels ahead of this.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Rob said:


> Because the fight is agreed with provisional dates. It's levels ahead of this.


According to Eddie Hearn right? Who doesn't promote Wilder or Breazeale.


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## Guest (May 14, 2018)

bballchump11 said:


> According to Eddie Hearn right? Who doesn't promote Wilder or Breazeale.


No. Breazeale said it on Twitter.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I had a feeling that Hearn was going to try and use the venue as a way to delay the fight

https://www.boxingscene.com/hearn-provides-update-on-joshua-vs-wilder-negotiations--128438



> Wilder wants the contest to take place in the United States, while Joshua is standing firm on having the event in the UK.
> 
> "We're talking,"said Hearn, the head of Matchroom Sports, which represents Joshua, "which I guess is positive. We're in a situation where Anthony Joshua, me, as well and his trainer/manager Rob McCracken feel like he and we have earned the right to do this fight in the UK. We feel that he's the A-side in the fight, he's got three of the four championship belts.
> 
> ...


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

Do either side really want this fight to happen any time soon? It's a question you have to ask yourself.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

This is positive. There's no reason Wilder shouldn't take this fight in the UK.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Apparently the $50 million is real, Hearn has confirmed according to this. But the Wilder fight MUST be in the UK, now.

Joshua, Hearn Stand Firm: Wilder Fight Must Be in The UK


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Apparently the $50 million is real, Hearn has confirmed according to this. But the Wilder fight MUST be in the UK, now.
> 
> Joshua, Hearn Stand Firm: Wilder Fight Must Be in The UK


Hearn is saying UK for 2 reasons.

1. He knows that the $50 million offer is contingent on the fight being in Vegas because that's where the fight makes the most money. They can't guarantee that much anywhere else.

2. Hearn realizes that, so he's hoping it'll make Team Wilder rescind the offer and give them and out. BUT if they happen to accept the UK, it'll give Joshua his home crowd, ref and judges.

It's clear to any true fan that Hearn wants to stall this fight. Even his dad, the actual owner of Matchroom advised Joshua to stall the fight for another year.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Hearn is saying UK for 2 reasons.
> 
> 1. He knows that the $50 million offer is contingent on the fight being in Vegas because that's where the fight makes the most money. They can't guarantee that much anywhere else.
> 
> ...


I think they want the fight to be bigger, but don't want to be seen as the ones stalling the fight. They figured they had a good out with the $50 million offer, but since that's real something else needs to stop it...


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Hearn is saying UK for 2 reasons.
> 
> 1. He knows that the $50 million offer is contingent on the fight being in Vegas because that's where the fight makes the most money. They can't guarantee that much anywhere else.
> 
> ...


How is Hearn wanting the fight in the UK a stalling move? AJ is the one who is the draw, he dictates where the fight takes place, it's as simple as that.

He's saying UK because they are the A side and that's where they want the fight. This bullshit 50 million dollar offer means nothing, there was never a guarantee he would accept the terms, Wilder and his team are the still the ones who need to accept what they can get here, or he loses out.

You try way too hard which is why no one takes you seriously in boxing debates, you can't separate your fanboyism from common sense, and then there's also the clear race issue with you.

You've been gagging to be able to see that AJ and Hearn are ducking from day one, ever though all the signs pointed to the opposite.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

TFG said:


> How is Hearn wanting the fight in the UK a stalling move? AJ is the one who is the draw, he dictates where the fight takes place, it's as simple as that.
> 
> He's saying UK because they are the A side and that's where they want the fight. This bullshit 50 million dollar offer means nothing, there was never a guarantee he would accept the terms, Wilder and his team are the still the ones who need to accept what they can get here, or he loses out.
> 
> ...


An a-side wanting the fight in his home country being called a stalling tactic is one of the more bizarre arguments I've seen in this whole saga.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> An a-side wanting the fight in his home country being called a stalling tactic is one of the more bizarre arguments I've seen in this whole saga.


Yep.

Not much sense being talked by certain people on here, desperate to frame the negotiations in a certain way from the get go.

If Wilder doesn't accept the fight in the UK, that'd be the first sign of an actual duck. He's in no position to dictate where the fight takes place.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

TFG said:


> Yep.
> 
> Not much sense being talked by certain people on here, desperate to frame the negotiations in a certain way from the get go.
> 
> If Wilder doesn't accept the fight in the UK, that'd be the first sign of an actual duck. He's in no position to dictate where the fight takes place.


Well, cancelling meetings after making an offer was a sign that Wilder's team wanted to dictate the pace of negotiations. You can't really get more stalled than "we're offering you 50 million but won't talk to you about it".

I'm glad negotiations are happening now but it's funny because there must be dozens of articles out there plus thousands of comments saying Joshua turned down 50 million when no so thing has happened. It's almost like people _don't_ want the fight to happen to bolster their side of the argument.

Any offer certainly wouldn't be contingent on geographical location (unless there's solid proof to suggest otherwise). And Joshua wanting the fight in the UK should in no way be a roadblock to getting the fight made.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

A side is the team bringing more money. That is Wilder and his $50 million guarantee which Hearn said was legit and real. And why are y'all bringing up cancelled meetings when they've been negotiating since? It's like y'all having been catching up with any news. 


And I'll talk to Kurisho but no interest in talking to that other biased clown.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Vegas is where the party is at. Come on now don't be homers and I'm speaking as fans of both fighters


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I had a feeling that Hearn was going to try and use the venue as a way to delay the fight
> 
> https://www.boxingscene.com/hearn-provides-update-on-joshua-vs-wilder-negotiations--128438


Clearly, the best solution is to just build a new stadium.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Clearly, the best solution is to just build a new stadium.


:lol:


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Wilder says he'll fight in the UK if he gets 40%. That new goal post is met. Let's see how far Hearn pushes it back


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

Would it be on the same time then? Cause that would be on like 5 pm central in America. Honestly I don't mind fights on early like that so then I don't drink too much before the main even starts lol


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

So Wilder is now the A side because he offered 50 million :lol:

Wilder will never be the A side in this fight, AJ is generating all the money, he is the star. He never at ANY point said he would surrender everything if he was given 50 million, that's why the terms were always going to be important. Wilder has no right to dictate where the fight takes place, if AJ doesn't want to surrender promotion rights and fight in America for 50 million he doesn't have to, and he never at any point said he would accept that deal. He can make a similar amount of money fighting in a stadium here, without giving up the show to the B side fighter. That's the perk of being the most valuable fighter, and the actual A side, if Wilder walsk away he goes back to 2 million purses, AJ goes back to 10x that.

If Wilder walks away from the UK fight, he is ducking, plain and simple. Time to stop fucking around and sign the fight, the 50m was a clever stunt but that ship has sailed, you aren't going to be controlling the show, and you aren't going to dictate where the fight takes place.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

TFG said:


> So Wilder is now the A side because he offered 50 million :lol:
> 
> Wilder will never be the A side in this fight, AJ is generating all the money, he is the star. He never at ANY point said he would surrender everything if he was given 50 million, that's why the terms were always going to be important. Wilder has no right to dictate where the fight takes place, if AJ doesn't want to surrender promotion rights and fight in America for 50 million he doesn't have to, and he never at any point said he would accept that deal. He can make a similar amount of money fighting in a stadium here, without giving up the show to the B side fighter. That's the perk of being the most valuable fighter, and the actual A side, if Wilder walsk away he goes back to 2 million purses, AJ goes back to 10x that.
> 
> If Wilder walks away from the UK fight, he is ducking, plain and simple. Time to stop fucking around and sign the fight, the 50m was a clever stunt but that ship has sailed, you aren't going to be controlling the show, and you aren't going to dictate where the fight takes place.


Sign under what terms? Wilder is following the correct playbook thus far, maneuvering himself far beyond 10-15% that the 12.5 million would have amounted to, and also far beyond what a mediator would offer him.

That 12.5 was also a clever stunt, but also now off of the table.


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## Kezza (Aug 13, 2017)

bballchump11 said:


> A side is the team bringing more money. That is Wilder and his $50 million guarantee which Hearn said was legit and real. And why are y'all bringing up cancelled meetings when they've been negotiating since? It's like y'all having been catching up with any news.
> 
> And I'll talk to Kurisho but no interest in talking to that other biased clown.


If Wilder was the A side he'd be earning $10m+ every fight, the only reason why this fight makes huge money is because of AJ. Wilder-Ortiz should've been a huge fight and Wilder got paid peanuts for it, if AJ had fought Ortiz he would've got paid 10 times what Wilder did.

I do think AJ should just offer Wilder 40% to get the fight agreed in the UK though, I just want this fight sorted and if that's what it takes to bring Wilder here then its worth it.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

https://www.boxingscene.com/hearn-joshua-povetkin-deal-close-wilders-time-running-out--128685
*Hearn: Joshua-Povetkin Deal Close, Wilder's Time Running Out*

https://www.boxingscene.com/alexander-povetkin-expects-fight-anthony-joshua-fall--128709
*Alexander Povetkin Expects To Fight Anthony Joshua in The Fall*

https://www.boxingscene.com/hearn-joshua-fighting-uk-ball-wilders-court--128745
*Hearn: Joshua is Fighting in The UK, The Ball in Wilder's Court*


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Boxalot said:


> Deontay Wilder has already agreed to fight Dominic Brezeale. This is the worst kept secret in boxing and they've even gone to the lengths of persuading the WBC to make it a mandatory defence despite 1) Brezeale being #2 in their rankings behind Dillian Whyte (another man Wilder is avoiding), and 2) Brezeale NEVER having fought a final eliminator. What will happen is Wilder and his team will come out and say Hearn didn't sign the $50mil guarantee (despite there being nothing to sign) so they had no choice but to fight their mandatory in a fight nobody wants to see or lose the belt. It's worth noting he fought his mandatory in another shit fight a few months ago so his mandatory wouldn't actually be due yet, but that's another matter entirely. You and all other Wilder fans will continue to explicably believe this.





Kezza said:


> Are you saying its just a coincidence Breazeale has been made mandatory when Hearn said weeks ago that Wilder's team had that fight agreed?





Rob said:


> No. Breazeale said it on Twitter.


Didn't I tell yall that Eddie Hearn is a huge liar? "I heard that Wilder has already agreed to fight Breazeale" :lol: shut the fuck up.

According to Arum, Mikey Garcia is going to fight Linares next. Frank Warren confirmed it


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Wilder is a real one and Joshua is on that bullshit. His team knows Wilder wins because Joshua isn't ready. He needs a little more experience


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Glad they got the fight made with Fury...


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