# Pick ' Em : Andre Ward vs Sergei Kovalev



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Straight pick, state your case if you like for now.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)




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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)




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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

JamieC said:


>


??


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

turbotime said:


> ??


6.40 :think


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

JamieC said:


> 6.40 :think


Kovalev was knocked flat with headgear :think


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Kovalev was knocked flat with headgear :think


By Attoev. Ward doesn't have a Mayweather chin, so he has to box this even more perfect than Floyd, against an elite boxer. It's such a great match up. The winner of this is an ATG in my eyes (yeah I said it) but moreso if it's Ward I think, not only is he coming up in weight but as I said his performance will have to be absolutely flawless.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

JamieC said:


> By Attoev. Ward doesn't have a Mayweather chin, so he has to box this even more perfect than Floyd, against an elite boxer. It's such a great match up. The winner of this is an ATG in my eyes (yeah I said it) but moreso if it's Ward I think, not only is he coming up in weight but as I said his performance will have to be absolutely flawless.


then vote you pansy


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

turbotime said:


> then vote you pansy


I can't pick :-( :lol:

This is as close to a 50/50 I can think of. If I absolutely have to pick one, I'll say Kovalev lands that one big punch he needs some time over the 12, but I say that with very little confidence. Both have elite jabs, I'm interested to see if Ward will jab with him as Kovalev's is more of a weapon and getting hit with that will really disrupt Ward's rhythm, but Ward might back himself.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

JamieC said:


> I can't pick :-( :lol:
> 
> This is as close to a 50/50 I can think of. If I absolutely have to pick one, I'll say Kovalev lands that one big punch he needs some time over the 12, but I say that with very little confidence. Both have elite jabs, I'm interested to see if Ward will jab with him as Kovalev's is more of a weapon and getting hit with that will really disrupt Ward's rhythm, but Ward might back himself.


gun to your head, vote. only other actual voters will see it.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

turbotime said:


> gun to your head, vote. only other actual voters will see it.


You did this to me.

That said if Kovalev wins I will use this vote as evidence of my picking skills.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

JamieC said:


> You did this to me.
> 
> That said if Kovalev wins I will use this vote as evidence of my picking skills.


Thats the stuff. Its a 50/50 scrap. Ward better lose that shoulder roll if he wants to evade danger, tie up like Floyd did Pac.


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## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

Ward outboxes Kovalev. SOG will be by far the most complete, mentally tough fighter Sergey has ever faced and he will end 2016 at the top.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Thats the stuff. Its a 50/50 scrap. Ward better lose that shoulder roll if he wants to evade danger, tie up like Floyd did Pac.


I'm interested to see if he'll do that, like he did Froch, Froch is similar to Kovalev in that he has (obviously not the the same degree) fight ending power if he catches you, and is rangy with an awkward jab. So Ward took that away from him by mauling him and sneaking in shots inside and breaking his resolve as much as anything. Problem is that's draining and Froch took the last couple of rounds as Ward was a bit fucked, he can't really afford to be taking shots in any round against Kovalev. Damn I can't wait for this fight.


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## jonnytightlips (Jun 14, 2012)

My heart and head say Kovalev. I'm not confident though.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

This fight is so fucking relevant.



JamieC said:


> By Attoev. Ward doesn't have a Mayweather chin, so he has to box this even more perfect than Floyd, against an elite boxer. It's such a great match up. The winner of this is an ATG in my eyes (yeah I said it) but moreso if it's Ward I think, not only is he coming up in weight but as I said his performance will have to be absolutely flawless.


Ward going ALL IN here on some real G shit and it's honestly made me stand up straight in sheer admiration. No doubt a humongous "Fuck You" to a certain camp -- and no, I'm not actually trying to go there in this thread, Jamie. :lol: Just saying. Andre lost out on prime years of his career and is looking to take the spot he probably should've had years ago. He's reaching for Greatness, and a place at the table of past Legendary USA Olympic Greats to fulfill the promise and leave an imprint on the game. It's a line that includes the likes of Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Leonard, Spinks, Whitaker, Jones and Mayweather (He's an '04 Gold Medalist remember). He's coming with daggers and clinches to carve out *his place* and this is a tremendous step to getting there.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> This fight is so fucking relevant.
> 
> Ward going ALL IN here on some real G shit and it's honestly made me stand up straight in sheer admiration. No doubt a humongous "Fuck You" to a certain camp -- and no, I'm not actually trying to go there in this thread, Jamie. :lol: Just saying. Andre lost out on prime years of his career and is looking to take the spot he probably should've had years ago. He's reaching for Greatness, and a place at the table of past Legendary USA Olympic Greats to fulfill the promise and leave an imprint on the game. It's a line that includes the likes of Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Leonard, Spinks, Whitaker, Jones and Mayweather (He's an '04 Gold Medalist remember). He's coming with daggers and clinches to carve out *his place* and this is a tremendous step to getting there.


Definitely, I bet he's pissed he didn't make the move sooner though, could have smashed Dawson at 175 and been secure in his place before 175 had Kovalev and Beterbiev, Gvozdyk, Shabranskyy etc on the come up :lol: gonna have to roll up them sleeves and get to work after this one if he wins. Like being the last survivor on COD zombies man.


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

Voted Kovalev but like Jamie & Hands it's not with great confidence; rather it's coloured by the fact I'd happily see Ward stretched out 'cause I find his fans tedious in the extreme.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Ward still ducking the harder hitting iron chinned GGGenday to fight some glass jaw who couldn't stop a 50 year old man.

I see Kovalev starting slow but gradually exhausting Ward to stop him late.
Not very confident though, Ward is live.


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## Casual Benson's Unknown (Jun 5, 2012)

The fight for the right to get sonned by Bivol

I want Kovalev to take it, I think Ward will win though, so i'm picking Kovalev because fuck my brain, heart every time baby


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

I went with Kovalev but I'm not remotely confident...it is a real 50/50. Ward has the skills to outbox Kovalev, neutralise him inside and make his boxing look distinctly average, BUT I just don't think Ward has ever had to be in with someone who has the power, weight and controlled aggression that Kovalev will bring. The closest stylistically has been Kessler, and they are also a similar size in terms of height and reach...but Kovalev is the bigger man quite clearly. Moreover he will not look to box Ward from the outside, he will look to use the jab to close in and then unload heavy punches in tight bunches.

If Ward mitigates those attacks then he really cements himself as proper P4P 1 and special talent and he might just do it. But I have to go with the fact that Ward has never faced a puncher like this and that his own punches have been given too much new praise, in regards to power, due to the anomaly that was the Dawson bout.

Of his 9 world title fights, only 2 have been stoppages and while you can point out that this includes super durable opponents like Froch and Bika, it also includes guys who have been stopped and are not especially durable...Green for example. That leads me to feel that Kovalev will not be slowed down too greatly by Ward's shots even though he will get caught on the way in and caught on the counter. Kovalev is also a smart boxer and is not going to just leave himself wide open for counters, as he showed with the controlled performance against Hopkins.

IF Kovalev drops him, it will be interesting to see how Ward reacts, if he will panic or maintain his outstanding composure.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Ward, and I don't think it'll be particularly competitive.


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## adamcanavan (Jun 5, 2012)

I think Kovalev wins and does it with surprising ease but weirdly I'm still not amazingly confident :lol: really excited for this, hope some bullshit doesn't pop up to stop this


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## knowimuch (May 9, 2014)

Ward


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## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

Great fight (if it comes off), classic Eastern Bloc style vs United States style, I've gotta go Krusher in this, though, he's a cruder version of GGG but he's bigger and still 'a version of'.


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## Crean (May 19, 2013)

My instincts are saying Kovalev. Tough fight to pick though.


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## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

Crean said:


> My instincts are saying Kovalev. Tough fight to pick though.


Agreed. I've never been a fan of Ward's but it speaks volumes to me of how good he must be when I hesitate when trying to make a choice for this fight


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## Crean (May 19, 2013)

DBerry said:


> Agreed. I've never been a fan of Ward's but it speaks volumes to me of how good he must be when I hesitate when trying to make a choice for this fight


He's a quality fighter mate, my only grievance with him is his lack of activity. He could of been one of the very greats if he was more active. He's been a pro for 12 years and has 29 fights, even allowing for the typically over active early years of a career, it still works out at just over 2 fights a year.


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## Nucking Futs (Jul 12, 2013)

Always said Ward handles him.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

I'm going to go a step further and suggest Ward has a good chance of getting a Kessler style stoppage. I would be surprised to not see a clash of heads in this fight.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Ward, points. Feel pretty strongly about this. It's going to be a pretty technical fight with a lot of jabs early on, but I think the difference ultimately is going to be Ward's speed, versatility and in-fighting.


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## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

I pick Kovalev, but then again much like a lot of folks I do have reservations. Made my choice because I believe Kovalev's power will be a factor. He isn't as just a plodding puncher. He is very patient and has a very tricky jab to set his punches up.

Ward is very skilled and has showed great adaptability in the ring. However, we still do not know much his inactivity dulled his skills. 

This really is a 50-50 fight.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I really need to see Ward in 1 more tune up fight. His athleticism looked diminished last time out. Too much weight around his torso.


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

I don't think anyone can really confidently pick until both men have their next fights. Ward looked a little rusty against Barrera, that version I'm sure would lose to Kovalev, but I think he'll look that bit better in his next outing


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Don't really like how Ward looked last time out so not too confident in my pick... Hopefully he drops the rust in his next fight so we get the super fight we're all expecting. 

True 50/50 fight IMO, glad both guys appear to be stepping up to get it made.


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## nvs (May 16, 2013)

Picked Kovalev but that is because i do not like Ward. I do appreciate his skills and it is a real 50/50 like many posters stated earlier.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Interesting to see how many people are picking Kovalev. For those choosing Kova, are they seeing Ward getting stopped then?


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

It is going to come down to Ward's ability to land something on Kovalev and get some respect. Ward is not a big puncher, but he has enough pop he's slowed guys like Froch down. If Andre can land something that gets Krusher's attention, makes him think, Andre should carry this fight.

But, if Kovalev tastes what Andre has, isn't fazed, and ups the aggression, his power will wear Andre down and woo the judges. If a fairly equal number of shots are landed, the harder shots carry the round.

It is close, and I love Andre, but I leaning slightly towards Kovalev.


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## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> I really need to see Ward in 1 more tune up fight. His athleticism looked diminished last time out. Too much weight around his torso.


But who are you picking?!

My money's on Ward. He's a special talent like Floyd; something that only comes along once in a while. I do agree that it'll be a great fight, and Kovalev has a great chance, but Ward is the winner for me.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> It is going to come down to Ward's ability to land something on Kovalev and get some respect. Ward is not a big puncher, but he has enough pop he's slowed guys like Froch down. If Andre can land something that gets Krusher's attention, makes him think, Andre should carry this fight.
> 
> But, if Kovalev tastes what Andre has, isn't fazed, and ups the aggression, his power will wear Andre down and woo the judges. If a fairly equal number of shots are landed, the harder shots carry the round.
> 
> It is close, and I love Andre, but I leaning slightly towards Kovalev.


Ward definitely has enough spite in his punches to get people's attention. But more than that it's the accuracy and spoiling. Even if Kovalev doesn't respect Ward's power he'll get frustrated that he's getting clocked and having his own game plan thwarted at the same time.

The Hopkins fight showed me that Kova is intelligent and patient as well as having power but if he's losing rounds against Ward and not landing then a lack of respect for power evolves into an increasing desperation to chase a knockout. I'm really interested to see how Kova would react if he's behind on the scorecards and needing a knockout. I've not seen him in that position before but he probably will be in that position against Ward if he doesn't wipe him out early.

Will he get reckless and let his patience fail him or does he have a hidden talent for adapting? It would fascinating to see Ward bring out a side of Kovalev that no one thought he had but I don't think he has it and so I think Kova's only chance of winning is by stoppage and I just can't see Ward falling into Kova's traps or being irresponsible enough, through a lack of focus, to let that happen.


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## Flag Nonce (Apr 28, 2016)

The early rounds in this fight are so important. If Kovalev can't control the range and get his jab working he'll find it very hard to work his way into the fight.

It's too hard to back against Ward. He's the boss in there, the fact he's taking it says to me he really fancies getting the win but he has to be absolutely punch/clinch perfect to stay away from that power all night.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Ward is more dynamic. If one thing doesn't work early Ward can switch it up. Kovalev while a really good boxer doesn't have as many dimensions. I don't think his power will play a part, Ward walked through Froch shots and laughed, I think he's fine in the chin department. Kovalev has never seen a stick like Wards nor a fighter that fights as comfortable coming forward and backwards out of either the ortho or southpaw stance 

Ward 8-4


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## godsavethequeen (Jun 12, 2013)

Obviously Ward has stepped up a Div, is the more talented, definitely slicker has the better resume. Does the inactivity affect him in this hard to choose fight?? Mehh From what I have seen of Kov I dont see him winning this fight by a UD or a MD so he will have to get the KO and that has proven thus far not possible against Ward. 
So I agree with The Warrior above UD maybe a round closer than he has it though


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> , Ward walked through Froch shots and laughed


Kovalev is a much bigger puncher than Froch and Froch tried to box with Ward and hardly managed to land much. Kovalev will land more than Froch did and has a lot more weight in his shots.


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## rossco (Jun 9, 2013)

Kovalev's a lot sharper and a lot less predictable than Froch but I still feel Ward will be able to get in close and smother Kovalev's work, making it for shit viewing. If he can't then he's fucked, but I think he can.


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## stevebhoy87 (Jun 4, 2013)

I've not been as conflicted with who will win a fight in years. When I break it down I keep logically coming up with Kovalev but instinctively I think Ward somehow pulls it out, but I'm not exactly sure how he will manage it. Such a good fight, can't wait for it


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## TFKING (May 18, 2016)

Ward UD


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

JamieC said:


>


That was his second pro fight.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

Ward will win by decision. Can't say UD because I don't trust judges. Ward will win a decision in a good boxing match where he will outbox Kovalev. Kovalev is a boxer first, not a brawler. This will benefit Ward, like with Dawson, Abraham and Kessler, who were all boxer first fighters. Froch and Bika were a little tougher because they don't go in there and try to box, they want to fight, especially Bika.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> That was his second pro fight.


Can't train a chin though, Mayweather never looked that shaky even when Mosley banged him. My point was he has to be flawless to win as he ain't got a granite beard.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Can't train a chin though, Mayweather never looked that shaky even when Mosley banged him. My point was he has to be flawless to win as he ain't got a granite beard.


I'm pretty sure I saw Pacquiao take worst shots than he did against Torrecampo and Singsurat as he gained more weight later in his career. The likes of Morales, Marquez and Cotto caught him with some well placed punches that didn't knock him down. Of course JMM eventually cracked the chin when he himself bulked up with more muscle.

Ward took some hard shots from Froch and Abraham a few times and took them well. Ward is bigger now than he was in his 2nd pro fight.

You don't train a chin like Amir Khan's. When it's a chin like the video you showed, that's nothing. It's called adjusting to the pros, no longer fighting with headgear, no longer fighting with 12oz gloves from 152 to 165 (where Ward fought). It's now 10oz for him.

And bringing up Mayweather-Mosley as a comparison, where Mayweather was a 40-0 veteran, vs Ward when he was 1-0 is really confusing. Bringing up Mayweather at all is actually confusing, are they twins? Do they have the same DNA, same parents, are Ward and Mayweather supposed to be the same? Can you elaborate on bringing up Mayweather as a point of argument for Ward fight at 1-0?


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> I'm pretty sure I saw Pacquiao take worst shots than he did against Torrecampo and Singsurat as he gained more weight later in his career. The likes of Morales, Marquez and Cotto caught him with some well placed punches that didn't knock him down. Of course JMM eventually cracked the chin when he himself bulked up with more muscle.
> 
> Ward took some hard shots from Froch and Abraham a few times and took them well. Ward is bigger now than he was in his 2nd pro fight.
> 
> ...


Are you trolling in purpose? I'll act as for you aren't for one more reply. You can either take a punch or nah, Ward has an okay chin but it's clearly not great, headgear makes fuck all difference, I've fought with and without it and punch resistance is the same. As does whether you have had 40 fights or 2, a punch to the chin is a punch to the chin. My point about Floyd is that his chin allows his to have rounds like he did against Maidana, Ward absolutely cannot afford to take a couple of clean shots as that could be game over.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Headgear only fucks your vision and causes everyone to bash their heads.


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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Ward is more dynamic. If one thing doesn't work early Ward can switch it up. Kovalev while a really good boxer doesn't have as many dimensions. I don't think his power will play a part, *Ward walked through Froch shots and laughed, *I think he's fine in the chin department. Kovalev has never seen a stick like Wards nor a fighter that fights as comfortable coming forward and backwards out of either the ortho or southpaw stance
> 
> Ward 8-4


 Nah. He hardly took clean hard punches. And we dont have to compare Frochs power with the power of Kovalev. Its not even close.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Berliner said:


> Nah. He hardly took clean hard punches. And we dont have to compare Frochs power with the power of Kovalev. Its not even close.






























There's another gif of Ward walking through like 3 punches flush in a row without flinching. Froch also threw a left hook after the bell that Ward just laughed at.

How many rounds would you believe Jean Pascal goes against the Froch that obliterated Bute? Same level of opponent.


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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> There's another gif of Ward walking through like 3 punches flush in a row without flinching. Froch also threw a left hook after the bell that Ward just laughed at.
> 
> How many rounds would you believe Jean Pascal goes against the Froch that obliterated Bute? Same level of opponent.


I dont think you can show two gifs and a pic where he eats a jab and say "Ward walked trough Froch and laughed at him. You make it sound like it was something wich it wasnt.
First gif yeah good left hook wich sent Ward straight in to the ropes. He hardly laughed there. Second gif I dont even see a punch that landed??? I think you mean the left hook wich Ward blocked? That pic he eats a jab and I dont see him laughing. Again it wasnt some war where Ward had to take many clean hard punches. It simply didnt happen.
And Pascal always goes the rounds with Froch. Froch landed a huge number of very clean punches against him and never came close to stop Pascal. So yeah I think that Pascal goes 12 rounds with Froch. Even with the Froch who obliterated Bute.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Berliner said:


> I dont think you can show two gifs and a pic where he eats a jab and say "Ward walked trough Froch and laughed at him. You make it sound like it was something wich it wasnt.
> First gif yeah good left hook wich sent Ward straight in to the ropes. He hardly laughed there. Second gif I dont even see a punch that landed??? I think you mean the left hook wich Ward blocked? That pic he eats a jab and I dont see him laughing. Again it wasnt some war where Ward had to take many clean hard punches. It simply didnt happen.
> And Pascal always goes the rounds with Froch. Froch landed a huge number of very clean punches against him and never came close to stop Pascal. So yeah I think that Pascal goes 12 rounds with Froch. Even with the Froch who obliterated Bute.


I figured you'd say that. I'll re-watch the fight later and show the rounds that I'm referring to.

Also, surely you don't believe Froch from the first Pascal fight is anywhere close to what he became when he obliterated Bute? Bute and Pascal are pretty much the same level otherwise. So I wouldn't guffaw over Kovalevs power just yet.


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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> I figured you'd say that. I'll re-watch the fight later and show the rounds that I'm referring to.
> 
> Also, surely you don't believe Froch from the first Pascal fight is anywhere close to what he became when he obliterated Bute? Bute and Pascal are pretty much the same level otherwise. So I wouldn't guffaw over Kovalevs power just yet.


They are around the same level. Pascal clearly beat Bute. The diffirence is that Pascal is has a good chin His chin is much better than Butes. So yeah I dont think that Froch could stop him. He already landed his best punches against Pascal and never came close to stop him. I really dont think that the better version of Froch (I agree he probably got better after Pascal) would stop him. Pascals chin is just too good.


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## ISPEAKUMTROOTH (Jun 10, 2014)

One of them where im pretty sure no one is really confident in their pick.
Have went for Krusher and just think his footwork and exceptional range keeping wont allow Ward to negate too much of his work but like most im not exactly confident.
If Ward does take this then he rises to new levels and imo its a fight he needs after a pretty mediocre spell in his career.


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## uraharakisuke (May 16, 2013)

Always had the feeling Ward would clutch it out. He's really that talented.

Ward UD.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Ward's chin may not be granite but its not exactly glass though is it. Only ever been floored by Darnell boone who is one of the best journeymen of all time (gave Kovalev fits, beat Monroe & KO'd Stevenson) 

To say Ward never got hit by Froch is being dishonest. Come on. Not that it says much here because Kovalev is not a caveman and he likely hits harder than Carl.


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## noslackgiven (Apr 19, 2016)

JamieC said:


> Can't train a chin though, Mayweather never looked that shaky even when Mosley banged him. My point was he has to be flawless to win as he ain't got a granite beard.


Kovalev's chin isn't nothing to write home about either.

He was knocked cold in his last amateur fight...in full head gear.

He's been on the floor more than Ward.


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## noslackgiven (Apr 19, 2016)

Divi253 said:


> *Don't really like how Ward looked last time out* so not too confident in my pick... Hopefully he drops the rust in his next fight so we get the super fight we're all expecting.
> 
> True 50/50 fight IMO, glad both guys appear to be stepping up to get it made.


How did he look in his last fight...?

He won damn near every round.


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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> To say Ward never got hit by Froch is being dishonest. Come on. Not that it says much here because Kovalev is not a caveman and he likely hits harder than Carl.


Who said he never got hit?


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Berliner said:


> Who said he never got hit?


You said that he rarely got hit Flush by Carl.


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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> You said that he rarely got hit Flush by Carl.


Wich is true. Froch didnt land many punches wich I would call as knock out blows. A lot of sloppy shit but not many hard clean blows.
MW: Said this "*Ward walked through Froch shots and laughed"*
Acting like it was some war and like Ward actually took a lot of clean punches. He didnt as far I remember. There is nothing dishonest about it like I would lie about it. I dont think he took a lot of punishment in that fight. You actually said that I said something wich I never said. I never said that Ward didnt got hit. My main problem was that MW acted like Ward-Froch was some war were Ward showed some great chin. It wasnt.
Anyway I think that Ward has a good chin.


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## noslackgiven (Apr 19, 2016)

tommygun711 said:


> You said that he rarely got hit Flush by Carl.


Who gets hit more...Ward or Kovalev???


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Berliner said:


> Wich is true. Froch didnt land many punches wich I would call as knock out blows. A lot of sloppy shit but not many hard clean blows.
> MW: Said this "*Ward walked through Froch shots and laughed"*
> Acting like it was some war and like Ward actually took a lot of clean punches. He didnt as far I remember. There is nothing dishonest about it like I would lie about it. I dont think he took a lot of punishment in that fight. You actually said that I said something wich I never said. I never said that Ward didnt got hit. My main problem was that MW acted like Ward-Froch was some war were Ward showed some great chin. It wasnt.
> Anyway I think that Ward has a good chin.


Ill have to rewatch the fight to be honest but I remember Froch catching him clean a few times. Ward was bullying him and outclassing him on the inside. The fight demonstrates Ward's strength and physicality imo.


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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Ill have to rewatch the fight to be honest but I remember Froch catching him clean a few times. Ward was bullying him and outclassing him on the inside. The fight demonstrates Ward's strength and physicality imo.


Yeah he did catch him a few times. Just really not that often because as you said Ward was outboxing him from the outside or schooled him even more when he got close. Froch basically mostly landed some sloppy arm punches. Sure also some good punches but I wouldnt take that fight as a prove for a great chin... Thats what I basically want to say. Wards defence was just too good for that. 
With Kovalev I think he can do the same on the inside... but when Kovalev keeps it long he can be very dangerous for Ward. Great fight and I dont know who I would pick to win it.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Berliner said:


> With Kovalev I think he can do the same on the inside... but when Kovalev keeps it long he can be very dangerous for Ward. Great fight and I dont know who I would pick to win it.


I think Ward's advantages in this fight would be his versatility and his in fighting. Kovalev does not really fight that well on the inside from what i can tell. They both have great jabs so I expect them to both have success at long range. Kovalev will be dangerous at any range but the issue for Kovalev is that I think Ward can beat him to the punch and outmanuver him, possibly even walk him down at times on the inside. I got Ward on points.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Ward did seem to tire by the end of the fight as Froch took the last few rounds.
But maybe Andre was also partly coasting on his big lead and didn't take risks he did not have to take.

One thing is certain, you can't coast when in the ring against Kovalev because once he starts landing it's quickly over.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Berliner said:


> Wich is true. Froch didnt land many punches wich I would call as knock out blows. A lot of sloppy shit but not many hard clean blows.
> MW: Said this "*Ward walked through Froch shots and laughed"*
> Acting like it was some war and like Ward actually took a lot of clean punches. He didnt as far I remember. There is nothing dishonest about it like I would lie about it. I dont think he took a lot of punishment in that fight. You actually said that I said something wich I never said. I never said that Ward didnt got hit. My main problem was that MW acted like Ward-Froch was some war were Ward showed some great chin. It wasnt.
> Anyway I think that Ward has a good chin.







36:30 Froch lands a right hook after the bell and Ward just looks at him.

It was actually a pretty rough and tumble fight. Ward made it an issue to get inside Froch arm length and bully him on the inside. And took alot of punches doing so. Alot of good exchanges, more than I remembered

That said, Froch is a clubber who wears on opponents. Kovalev punches with far better technique. Definitely the best technically schooled fighter Ward has fought, but one shot or two shots won't faze Ward. He's gonna have to beat Ward boxing.


----------



## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

Ward beats him no problem


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

2manyusernames said:


> But who are you picking?!
> 
> My money's on Ward. He's a special talent like Floyd; something that only comes along once in a while. I do agree that it'll be a great fight, and Kovalev has a great chance, but Ward is the winner for me.


It's tough man. The Ward I saw last time looked too slow with his feet and upperbody movement, and didn't seem to compensate with that much added strength. He could smother and tie up Kovalev like he did Froch and win. He needs to show the same strength he had at 168 though to do it.


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## noslackgiven (Apr 19, 2016)

bballchump11 said:


> It's tough man. T*he Ward I saw last time looked too slow with his feet and upperbody movement,* and didn't seem to compensate with that much added strength. He could smother and tie up Kovalev like he did Froch and win. He needs to show the same strength he had at 168 though to do it.


What fight were you watching?


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> It's tough man. The Ward I saw last time looked too slow with his feet and upperbody movement, and didn't seem to compensate with that much added strength. He could smother and tie up Kovalev like he did Froch and win. He needs to show the same strength he had at 168 though to do it.


hes still the same fighter...just a fighter going into a higher weight class. ward probably cant fight the way he did at 168 because he wont have the cardio with the excess weight

154 mosely was a different fighter than 147 mosely

mcgregor is a great example of how a fighter jumping up a weight class didnt compensate and adjust his fight plan for the additional weight

conner looked great the first seven minutes of the fight, gassed, and then proceeded to get beat down.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

noslackgiven said:


> What fight were you watching?


Compare Ward from last fight the Ward from the super 6. He was slower. It only makes sense because of the layoff and weight jump.


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## noslackgiven (Apr 19, 2016)

bballchump11 said:


> Compare Ward from last fight the Ward from the super 6. He was slower. It only makes sense because of the layoff and weight jump.


I didn't see that at all.

His stamina was impressive to me for a change.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

noslackgiven said:


> I didn't see that at all.
> 
> His stamina was impressive to me for a change.


yeah Ward finished the fight pretty strong. You know what, I have only watched that fight once. I'll go rewatch it.


----------



## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Straight pick, state your case if you like for now.


I voted *Kovalev only because I couldn't see the poll results. To me this one could go either way. *


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Ward. I think he's just too good. Kovalev has great straight punches but he seems very vulnerable to ambushes, there's just something about his reflexes that seem off. Agnew, Caparello, and Pascal seemed to catch Kovalev completely off guard at times. Then again, I thought that before the Hopkins fight, and John David Jackson had Kovalev drilling for his rushing in, and that's how Kovalev stepped back and caught Hopkins lunging with his right hand. But Ward is more athletic and is able to do more against straight punches than a defensive Hopkins was able to do. He can bend at the waist and go in and out more. His athleticism seems to be a bit diminished like in his last fight, but I don't think he looked as bad as some people say, just rusty. So assuming his body is right where it needs to be, I pick Ward to outbox him. He's too dynamic. He's a complete fighter. I wouldn't be surprise if Kovalev won and caught him on the outside, but Ward is too smart to be nullified so easily.

That being said this statement by John David Jackson really interests me.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Are you trolling in purpose? I'll act as for you aren't for one more reply. You can either take a punch or nah, Ward has an okay chin but it's clearly not great, headgear makes fuck all difference, I've fought with and without it and punch resistance is the same. As does whether you have had 40 fights or 2, a punch to the chin is a punch to the chin. My point about Floyd is that his chin allows his to have rounds like he did against Maidana, Ward absolutely cannot afford to take a couple of clean shots as that could be game over.


I know what headgear is for, it's for headbutts/cuts/minimize bruising, not impact of punch. Idc if you've fought, me too, i've boxed for 8 years, who cares? You also left out what I said about the difference of the size of the gloves in the amateurs and pro.

Saying that it doesn't matter comparing a fighter with 40 fights to a fighter with 2 fights is plain stupid. You can grow and discover how to recover faster, what to do when you get hurt, how to avoid actually going down. Floyd did a veteran tactic by holding on to dear life. A pro with 2 fights wouldn't likely have such quick thinking clinching, they'll panic.

Still, comparing Floyd to Ward in any way is idiotic. They're two different fighters and what happened in the Mayweather vs Maidana fight has nothing to do with Ward's gameplan in the Kovalev fight. The logic behind bringing up Floyd for this discussion is mind blowing.


----------



## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

ISPEAKUMTROOTH said:


> One of them where im pretty sure no one is really confident in their pick.
> Have went for Krusher and just think his footwork and exceptional range keeping wont allow Ward to negate too much of his work but like most im not exactly confident.
> If Ward does take this then he rises to new levels and imo its a fight he needs after a pretty mediocre spell in his career.


I'm confident Ward wins 8-4 at worst.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> I know what headgear is for, it's for headbutts/cuts/minimize bruising, not impact of punch. Idc if you've fought, me too, i've boxed for 8 years, who cares? You also left out what I said about the difference of the size of the gloves in the amateurs and pro.
> 
> Saying that it doesn't matter comparing a fighter with 40 fights to a fighter with 2 fights is plain stupid. You can grow and discover how to recover faster, what to do when you get hurt, how to avoid actually going down. Floyd did a veteran tactic by holding on to dear life. A pro with 2 fights wouldn't likely have such quick thinking clinching, they'll panic.
> 
> Still, comparing Floyd to Ward in any way is idiotic. They're two different fighters and what happened in the Mayweather vs Maidana fight has nothing to do with Ward's gameplan in the Kovalev fight. The logic behind bringing up Floyd for this discussion is mind blowing.


Zzzzzzz yep you can definitely learn how to take a punch better, that makes sense


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## Vaitor (Apr 22, 2015)

50/50... Edging to Kovalev because Ward has been retired and recently hes been fighting nobodies, so he will not be enough-ly on point to efficiently box Sergey for 12 rounds... Either Krusher starts dealing enough damage to edge a decision or T/KO Andre


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## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

Two years ago I would have picked Ward, but based on the Sullivan Barrera fight I would now pick Kovalev.

If Ward looks sharp in his next fight, I'd then pick Ward again.


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## mick557 (Jun 6, 2013)

Ward to smother his way to close decision.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Kovalev looks terribly lethargic in there


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I think Ward will scrape it, maybes a 7/5, 8/4 type division that may split people. I think he'll out hustle Kovalev on the inside and not allow him to get into a rhythm. I could see Kovalev having moments though, maybes even dropping Ward but I think Ward will win through in he end. Its a quality fight and I can't wait to see it.


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

I think it will be close early on, infighting and body shots will have Ward pull away clearly late


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Ward. Olympic gold medallist, better boxer.


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## knowimuch (May 9, 2014)

turbotime said:


> Kovalev looks terribly lethargic in there


Just watched it, he better have learned a thing or two in that fight because based on that performance I am more confident in my pick of Ward


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Said Ward before Kovalev vs chilemba, and ill say Ward now. Close chess match that I expect ward to win 7-5 or 8-4 ish. Ward's speed and jab will be the main differences here. Hes more versatile, much better on the inside. Kovalev can knock anyone out but the safe money would be on the better more complete boxer in Andre Ward.


----------



## Atlanta (Sep 17, 2012)

I'll take Ward in this one. I think he's the superior technician and that will beat out Kovalev's power advantage. Ward UD


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Ward. Olympic gold medallist, better boxer.


Yep, Zou Shiming is a pound for pound entrant. Oh wait...


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Ward is too technically sound for Kovalev I feel. His jab is excellent and he knows how to hop in, get his punch off and smother yours


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## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

Ward may just walk down Kovalev and KO him after Chilemba exposed his feather fists


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

I still got Kovalev.

I think he took Chilemba too lightly, and had too much fun being back home. He won't make that mistake against Ward.
Plus, Chilemba seems to have a granite chin. I doubt Ward has one quite that solid.

I also know 2 of the 4 things JDJ s talking about, and agree they will be Ward's downfall.

I just don't see Ward making it 12 rounds. Not unless he owns the ref, and that's not likely.


----------



## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

I need to see Ward's next fight. Neither of them looked impressive in their last outings


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Have to say Ward looked better vs Barrera compared to Kovalev's performance today. Was not impressed at all with Kovalev. His finishing ability was not there, this is one of the only times ive seen Kovalev get befuddled with another opponent's jab. Cedric Agnew also took the jab away and troubled Kovalev. Hopefully it was just an off performance due to Sergei getting sick in training. His defense also looked pretty bad. Ward has to be licking his chops right now.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Lots on the Ward-wagon now.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Lots on the Ward-wagon now.


They're just flip-flopping pussies


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

dyna said:


> They're just flip-flopping pussies


I knew from the start what time it was/


----------



## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

I do think that the Ward that turned up against Barrera would lose to Kovalev, but that he was rusty and that he should improve on that. What's Kovalev's reason?


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> I knew from the start what time it was/


I've been saying it from when people were still banging on about Froch not giving him a rematch.(And I'll have umpteen posts to prove it)
Although I'll be honest,before last night I thought it would be very close but Chilemba did very well doing things Ward can do to a much higher standard.
Unless Ward has a bad outing,those of us who wanted to bet on Ward won't be getting the same value I hoped for.
Still love the Krusher too though,and it's still the best fight that's signed right now.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Said Ward before Kovalev vs chilemba, and ill say Ward now. Close chess match that I expect ward to win 7-5 or 8-4 ish. Ward's speed and jab will be the main differences here. Hes more versatile, much better on the inside. Kovalev can knock anyone out but the safe money would be on the better more complete boxer in Andre Ward.


7-5 was always my pick too Tommy.
As I've said,I thought you'd get fairly good odds on Ward in what looked a 50/50 but I don't even want to check them now because I'll regret not getting an early bet on.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

noslackgiven said:


> How did he look in his last fight...?
> 
> He won damn near every round.


I loved the way Ward fought in a different style last time.
Showed he has some versatility to fall back on.
In fact it was one of his more viewer-friendly fights IMO.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Slightly favoring Ward in this one.


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## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

After the Chilemba fight, I'm now favouring Ward.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

A little perspective:

As a pro, Ali got KD'd by Frazier, Cooper (who actually KO'd him) Banks, and Wepner. WEPNER, fer chissakes.

How did THAT turn out down the road?


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> How did THAT turn out down the road?


I was about to make an extremely inappropiate comment.
But I'll leave that to somebody other than me.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)




----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Lots on the Ward-wagon now.


Always happens after a fight.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> I've been saying it from when people were still banging on about Froch not giving him a rematch.(And I'll have umpteen posts to prove it)
> Although I'll be honest,before last night I thought it would be very close but Chilemba did very well doing things Ward can do to a much higher standard.
> Unless Ward has a bad outing,those of us who wanted to bet on Ward won't be getting the same value I hoped for.
> Still love the Krusher too though,and it's still the best fight that's signed right now.


Agreed, Had Ward when i made this thread, was too busy betting on other things though :-(


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

dyna said:


> I was about to make an extremely inappropiate comment.
> But I'll leave that to somebody other than me.


For once. :lol:


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I still have to see Ward's next fight


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## CASH_718 (Jan 24, 2016)

turbotime said:


> Lots on the Ward-wagon now.


People are so fickle. If Ward gets hit a couple of times by Brand then everyone will jump back on the Kovalev bandwagon.


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## CASH_718 (Jan 24, 2016)

bballchump11 said:


> I still have to see Ward's next fight


Even if Ward looks like shit vs Brand for whatever reason (I know nothing about Brand he could be really good, or not) I still have to pick him vs Kovalev. The Kovalev and Ward that are going to come in vs each other will be the best version of both fighters we have ever seen. Both guys have the physical tools and both guys are mentally strong and confident.


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## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

Wards the much more skilled fighter defensively at least. Depends if Ward can take Kovalevs power and if he hits hard enough to get Kovs respect. I'm not too sure on either of those issues.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

CASH_718 said:


> Even if Ward looks like shit vs Brand for whatever reason (I know nothing about Brand he could be really good, or not) I still have to pick him vs Kovalev. The Kovalev and Ward that are going to come in vs each other will be the best version of both fighters we have ever seen. Both guys have the physical tools and both guys are mentally strong and confident.


I still have to see how Ward handles that weight. His torso looked too big in his last fight and in turn made his headmovement slower. Then of course he was more flat footed. He didn't really excel in the inside against Barrera either.


----------



## Nucking Futs (Jul 12, 2013)

Said Ward handles him when it was first spoke about, said the same thing after the Barrera fight and guess what, I'm still saying it now.


----------



## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> A little perspective:
> 
> As a pro, Ali got KD'd by Frazier, Cooper (who actually KO'd him) Banks, and Wepner. WEPNER, fer chissakes.
> 
> How did THAT turn out down the road?


He's dead? :huh :conf


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

I picked Ward to win this fight before the Smith fight. Sticking to my pick.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

http://www.boxingscene.com/arum-kovalev-said-gvozdyk-only-guy-who-beat-him--106609


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> http://www.boxingscene.com/arum-kovalev-said-gvozdyk-only-guy-who-beat-him--106609


Haven't heard of him. Is he any good?


----------



## stevebhoy87 (Jun 4, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Haven't heard of him. Is he any good?


Yeah he's very good, skilled fighter with a lot of power. Obviously Arum going for the oversell to an extent but he's the goods, I'm pretty sure of that.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Haven't heard of him. Is he any good?


Only seen him once, undercard of Pac Bradley 3. Small sample size.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

@Divi253 Thanks! From that fight, which, yeah, isn't a great deal to go on, he looks like he's got very sound fundamentals and a fair bit of power and he also seems pretty big for the weight. Was getting caught quite a lot with jabs though even after he first had Mohammedi staggering.

@stevebhoy87 For sure this is probably Arum in damage control after Rameriez had to pull out. Postol/Crawford was an unlikely candidate for a PPV as it was but without Gilberto I can see why he's trying push the undercard.

Still, this guy looks really promising. In fact the LHW as a division seems promising. Seems to be really heating up. Everyone is really focused on Kovalev/Ward right now, understandably, but there's some really tasty match ups to be made after that (provided promotional hurdles can be overcome).


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Yeah he got touched up a bit but showed good fundamentals, liked how he stuck with his jab. Not bad for his 10th fight, looking forward to seeing him against Karpency.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Yeah he got touched up a bit but showed good fundamentals, liked how he stuck with his jab. Not bad for his 10th fight, looking forward to seeing him against Karpency.


I remember a UK commentator during the Cleverly/Karpency fight describing Tommy as having 'sparring partner syndrome', meaning he never really comes to win but gives the opponent a good work out. Seeing as Gvozdyk is still professionally fresh I'd say it's a decent fight for him to try a few new things while looking impressive against someone with some high level experience.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> A little perspective:
> 
> As a pro, Ali got KD'd by Wepner. WEPNER, fer chissakes.


Except he didnt really. That slapping right hook to Ali's body wasn't a hard shot at all.


----------



## mick557 (Jun 6, 2013)

Not a great start to this...

http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/duva...ng-hell-350255


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

mick557 said:


> Not a great start to this...
> 
> http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/duva...ng-hell-350255


http://www.boxingscene.com/kovalevs-promoter-frustrated-expresses-doubt-on-ward-fight--107558

Saw that, although I'm not 100% sure on the issue.. Is it simply an argument over where to stage the fight, with Duva saying they agreed to the MGM Grand but now Roc Nation want to fight at the new T-Mobile Arena?

Negotiations are a living hell because they're looking at a new arena? She doubts the fight will happen because of a disagreement, initially, on the site for the fight? Seriously?!


----------



## mick557 (Jun 6, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> http://www.boxingscene.com/kovalevs-promoter-frustrated-expresses-doubt-on-ward-fight--107558
> 
> Saw that, although I'm not 100% sure on the issue.. Is it simply an argument over where to stage the fight, with Duva saying they agreed to the MGM Grand but now Roc Nation want to fight at the new T-Mobile Arena?
> 
> Negotiations are a living hell because they're looking at a new arena? She doubts the fight will happen because of a disagreement, initially, on the site for the fight? Seriously?!


Not really reading to much into the venue thing but surely he should be showing up for the presser especially the first one.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Duva I swear to god you cunt.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Except he didnt really. That slapping right hook to Ali's body wasn't a hard shot at all.


Ali was put flat on his ass by a 180 lber.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

mick557 said:


> Not really reading to much into the venue thing but surely he should be showing up for the presser especially the first one.


Yeah it's quite close to his last fight but if they agreed to do a presser for the fight today there's no reason for anyone to not show, especially Ward in Cali where I'm sure he currently is... But that doesn't seem like the main gripe in either article, main issue appears to be the venue which should be easy to get sorted.. So I'm still unsure how negotiations are a living hell, with that as the example..


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

http://www.boxingscene.com/video-kovalevs-promoter-explains-issues-with-ward-fight--107560


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Still favor Ward.


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

Divi253 said:


> http://www.boxingscene.com/kovalevs-promoter-frustrated-expresses-doubt-on-ward-fight--107558
> 
> Saw that, although I'm not 100% sure on the issue.. Is it simply an argument over where to stage the fight, with Duva saying they agreed to the MGM Grand but now Roc Nation want to fight at the new T-Mobile Arena?
> 
> Negotiations are a living hell because they're looking at a new arena?  She doubts the fight will happen because of a disagreement, initially, on the site for the fight? Seriously?!


From the above video it seems like Kovalev's team are happy with the T-Mobile Arena.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

2manyusernames said:


> From the above video it seems like Kovalev's team are happy with the T-Mobile Arena.


Yeah I thought it was about the T-mobile arena vs MGM but it sounds like T-mobile vs something else..

She says it's something petty or small but also acts like the whole fight is at risk, we need details.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




----------



## Windmiller (Jun 6, 2013)

This fight should be in Oakland or New York, both guys sell zero tickets in Vegas


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> 36:30 Froch lands a right hook after the bell and Ward just looks at him.
> 
> It was actually a pretty rough and tumble fight. Ward made it an issue to get inside Froch arm length and bully him on the inside. And took alot of punches doing so. Alot of good exchanges, more than I remembered
> 
> That said, Froch is a clubber who wears on opponents. Kovalev punches with far better technique. Definitely the best technically schooled fighter Ward has fought, but one shot or two shots won't faze Ward. He's gonna have to beat Ward boxing.


Yeah this was a better fight than I remember. Lest we forgot Froch is an animal? Kovalev won't come at him like Froch did


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

It's starting to sound like the fight won't be happening ANYWHERE. 

They'll probably squabble long enough to lose the T Mobile arena, and I can't see Duva letting the fight happen in Oakland.


----------



## Robney (Jun 15, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> It's starting to sound like the fight won't be happening ANYWHERE.
> 
> They'll probably squabble long enough to lose the T Mobile arena, and I can't see Duva letting the fight happen in Oakland.


I'm afraid for this too. Then Ward pushing for Oakland/Caiz Sr/Feldman/Sammon/Morrow, which would never happen of course, so negotiations fail.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Duva bottling it again like she did with the Adonis fight. :-(


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Not a good start. RocNation and Ward look bad here. Hopefully it's just mind games and the issues can be resolved easily and promptly.


----------



## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Windmiller said:


> This fight should be in Oakland or New York, both guys sell zero tickets in Vegas


The site fee and the gambling money is what's worthwhile to the casinos. They couldn't care less about the gate.


----------



## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

While I understand Duva's frustration (and RNS seems to be complete tools, while Ward is a bit of a primadonna), I don't see any sense in bad mouthing them. That will just fan the fires of indignation.

***When pressed to describe how negotiations with Roc Nation Sports have gone so far Duva put it this way:

"Living hell is a pretty good description. There are nice people who work for Roc Nation but the leadership is incapable of dealing in good faith."

The upstart promotional company, founded by rap entrepreneur Jay-Z two years ago, has had its share of issues with more established promoters, including Star Boxing. Although the Kovalev-Ward fight was originally planned (by Duva and recently resigned RNS COO Dave Itskowitch) to take place at the T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas, RNS has since changed its mind so the site of the event is to be determined at a time when tickets should be going on sell.

When asked if the fight venue was the only "sticking point" left to iron out with RNS, Duva said:

"Today it's the site, tomorrow it'll be something else. There will be sticking points up until when these guys step into the ring and then I can finally sit back and allow the months of frustration to be erased in one fight."***

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/...-showdown-despite-promotional-sticking-points


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Here's the press conference where most of the quotes floating about came from:


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Ill be seriously pissed if this fight gets cancelled. I thought they had actually signed pre contracta to this? 

If so why was none of this sorted then and if not why make all the noise about definitely happening. 

Fuck boxing at times. All I wanted from this year was Ward/Kovalev, Gonzalez/Estrada II and GGG/Cabelo and I had little hopes for the latter anyway. Is that too much to ask?

I mean weve still had some good fights this year and its been the best year in a few but come on man, we need this big career defining fights to happen on occasion.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Kathy Duva should just shut the hell up


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Kathy Duva should just shut the hell up


As if this is Duva's fault? Maybe RN should just go with what they agreed upon initially, no?


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Ill be seriously pissed if this fight gets cancelled. I thought they had actually signed pre contracta to this?
> 
> If so why was none of this sorted then and if not why make all the noise about definitely happening.
> 
> ...


Yeah I thought they signed an agreement already, and if they did, there shouldn't be an issue unless this shit wasn't actually sorted back then..

I can see why they pulled him a week ago from the press conference since it was so close to his last fight, shouldn't have agreed to it at first.. But if they agreed to a site stick to it.


----------



## Brownies (Jun 7, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Kathy Duva should just shut the hell up


She always seem upset at other promoters and I don't think badmouthing them in the media is helping anyone.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

It's not great form from Duva to bad mouth RN but people should watch the kick off press conference first. She's being asked directly what it's like dealing with RN at an event at which not only did Ward not show up to but also Hunter or any sort of representative from RN at all. Kovalev isn't there on his own. They could have sent someone. It's as if RN are deliberately being difficult. At least that's the perception. Whatever bad form Duva's exhibiting RN look a lot lot worse.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

So this is actually a site issue? Im at work so a lot of things are blocked so someone please fill me in.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> It's not great form from Duva to bad mouth RN but people should watch the kick off press conference first. She's being asked directly what it's like dealing with RN at an event at which not only did Ward not show up to but also Hunter or any sort of representative from RN at all. Kovalev isn't there on his own. They could have sent someone. It's as if RN are deliberately being difficult. At least that's the perception. Whatever bad form Duva's exhibiting RN look a lot lot worse.


That's shitty. reminiscent of the Bute fight that Froch had to take when Ward wouldn't


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

turbotime said:


> So this is actually a site issue? Im at work so a lot of things are blocked so someone please fill me in.


That's what I've read so far. Rn is now looking into NY possibly.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Mal said:


> That's what I've read so far. Rn is now looking into NY possibly.


Barclays would be very cool. Not worthy of MSG though


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> It's not great form from Duva to bad mouth RN but people should watch the kick off press conference first. She's being asked directly what it's like dealing with RN at an event at which not only did Ward not show up to but also Hunter or any sort of representative from RN at all. Kovalev isn't there on his own. They could have sent someone. It's as if RN are deliberately being difficult. At least that's the perception. Whatever bad form Duva's exhibiting RN look a lot lot worse.


From the video posted earlier Ward's team let them know a week ago they wouldn't be at the press conference because it was too close to Ward's last fight, so she knew about it at least a week before yesterday.. Ward's team shouldn't have agreed to it at first, if they did, but they gave her notice so they weren't completely blindsided by his team not showing yesterday.

So I'm not sure they're trying to be difficult, especially deliberately..


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> So this is actually a site issue? Im at work so a lot of things are blocked so someone please fill me in.





Mal said:


> That's what I've read so far. Rn is now looking into NY possibly.


They're looking into NY? Where did you read that? I've only read that they cannot do it in Oakland or Russia.

I think part of the problem is the guy Duva had the verbal agreement with is no longer with Roc Nation Sports..



> After striking a deal for Kovalev-Ward in October, Duva said she and former Roc Nation Sports executive David Itskowitch agreed that 20,000-seat T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas was the best venue for the bout.





> In a stunning development, Dave Itskowitch, COO of the boxing division of Jay Z's Roc Nation Sports, abruptly stepped down from his position on Thursday nearly two years after he arrived with a splashy announcement and the creation of a new boxing venture.


http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/...ing-coo-david-itskowitch-resigned-on-thursday

http://www.latimes.com/sports/boxin...e-ward-las-vegas-hbo-20160809-snap-story.html


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Barclays would be very cool. Not worthy of MSG though


Yeah, I like that venue. Rumor is, it won't bring in any more money than it would in LV though.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> They're looking into NY? Where did you read that? I've only read that they cannot do it in Oakland or Russia.
> 
> I think part of the problem is the guy Duva had the verbal agreement with is no longer with Roc Nation Sports..
> 
> ...


Might've been a tweet or something I saw. can't recall.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Mal said:


> Might've been a tweet or something I saw. can't recall.


Gotcha. Hopefully it gets sorted soon.. Would probably be best to just have it in Vegas even though the guy she was working with is no longer with the company, and it appears they don't have it in written form.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Gotcha. Hopefully it gets sorted soon.. Would probably be best to just have it in Vegas even though the guy she was working with is no longer with the company, and it appears they don't have it in written form.


Yeah, hope so! Be a huge shame is something insignificant derails this fight.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Mal said:


> Yeah, I like that venue. Rumor is, it won't bring in any more money than it would in LV though.


That's what I was worried about. I honestly think Kovalev should just concede to Oakland or Duva get Barclays done, they ain't making money in Vegas (I don't think)


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

turbotime said:


> That's what I was worried about. I honestly think Kovalev should just concede to Oakland or Duva get Barclays done, they ain't making money in Vegas (I don't think)


I think they should just continue with what they agreed upon. Unless there's undeniable proof it's more lucrative, and worth the efforts, to move it elsewhere.


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## Antsu (Jun 4, 2013)

Ward will win dominant fashion


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

http://www.boxingscene.com/ward-kovalev-release-nba-schedule-clarify-venue--107612

@Mal they are indeed looking at NY.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> http://www.boxingscene.com/ward-kovalev-release-nba-schedule-clarify-venue--107612
> 
> @Mal they are indeed looking at NY.


As long as they can get this done quickly, that's all that matters to me. This doesn't look good for RN though. A freshmen promotion changing an agreed upon venue will make some think twice about working with them.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mal said:


> As if this is Duva's fault? Maybe RN should just go with what they agreed upon initially, no?


Duva is blowing the situation out of proportion and the only thing complaining to the media will do is make things more complicated. How about she handles whatever issue there is and shut the hell up. She was also just telling everybody in another interview later that day that the fight will happen and everything is fine.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Mal said:


> As long as they can get this done quickly, that's all that matters to me. This doesn't look good for RN though. A freshmen promotion changing an agreed upon venue will make some think twice about working with them.


Yeah I think the issue came in when the dude who made the agreement with her left, as it doesn't appear they have it in writing. It would be easiest for them to just do the T-Mobile Arena, but with someone new in charge I can see how the new person would want to look at all options first. Not quite sure why the last guy left, could have been on bad terms?

In the end they just need to figure something out quick... Duva needs to say if she's willing to go elsewhere or not, and Roc Nation Sports need to say whether they're okay with T-Mobile Arena and just looking to see if there are better options or if they're completely against that for some reason.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Duva is blowing the situation out of proportion and the only thing complaining to the media will do is make things more complicated. How about she handles whatever issue there is and shut the hell up. She was also just telling everybody in another interview later that day that the fight will happen and everything is fine.


I can see your point. Guessing she let this out due to frustration. It still doesn't excuse RN from trying to do a bait and switch w/ venues.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> *Duva is blowing the situation out of proportion and the only thing complaining to the media will do is make things more complicated*. How about she handles whatever issue there is and shut the hell up. She was also just telling everybody in another interview later that day that the fight will happen and everything is fine.


Maybe. Maybe not. If Team Ward are actually trying to derail the fight, (I'm not saying they are, but it's a real possibility) then they will want to blame Duva for everything after the dust settles. Duva bringing everything out into the open makes that much harder for them.

Roc Nation's interest in this fight is more about image & respectability than about money. They've already paid Ward WAAAAAAY more money than they could ever hope to recoup. Clearly this is because they "bought" him for the prestige of having him in their stable, not as a money-maker.


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## mick557 (Jun 6, 2013)

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sport...-arena-las-vegas-hbo-20160810-snap-story.html

Hopefully this is true but don't see anywhere else reporting this.


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## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

I voted Kovalev because it's more fun.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mal said:


> I can see your point. Guessing she let this out due to frustration. It still doesn't excuse RN from trying to do a bait and switch w/ venues.


Yeah true, but I'd prefer she not go out and do something to antagonize the other side. You're right though about RocNation.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

mick557 said:


> http://www.latimes.com/sports/sport...-arena-las-vegas-hbo-20160810-snap-story.html
> 
> Hopefully this is true but don't see anywhere else reporting this.


Lance Pugmire was by far the most reliable source during the Mayweather/Pacquiao negotiations. I'd take his word for it


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Yeah true, but I'd prefer she not go out and do something to antagonize the other side. You're right though about RocNation.


We're both right


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## mick557 (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Lance Pugmire was by far the most reliable source during the Mayweather/Pacquiao negotiations. I'd take his word for it


Will know for sure when tickets go on sale.

It was meant to be tomorrow before all this happened.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Maybe all of this drama was just designed to get people talking about the fight.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Maybe all of this drama was just designed to get people talking about the fight.


Easily could be... Seems like it was blown out of proportion immediately when in the same interviews she was saying she thought the fight would still happen..


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Duva now saying they are certain there will be a Ward vs Kovalev fight on November 19th.

http://www.boxingscene.com/kovalevs-promoter-andre-ward-fight-absolutely-go-1119--107644


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Maybe all of this drama was just designed to get people talking about the fight.


Nah Wards afraid of Kovalev right dumbass?


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Looking more positive now after an unfortunate hiccup. Fingers crossed there are no other issues.


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## Crean (May 19, 2013)

Kovalev


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Nah Wards afraid of Kovalev right dumbass?


Your Mama still lets you go on the computer?

I thought she took it away for a while. At least until you finish your homework....


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

I see Ward smothering Kovalev and falling into his shots. I don't think it will be as competitive as we think


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

I want Kovalev to win since i like his style.

think its 60-40 Ward though


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Ward by at least two round but probably more.
And will still have plenty love for the Hammer afterwards.


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## bobalachko (Jun 20, 2013)

I would like Kovalev win because I think Ward inactivity is bad for boxing but Ward to many skills.


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## desertlizard (Dec 29, 2015)

any update of the fight?


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Your Mama still lets you go on the computer?
> 
> I thought she took it away for a while. At least until you finish your homework....


Michigan warriors mom is too busy out looking for work to watch her little baby on the pc


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Fuck Duva seriously


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

Ward by decision. Kovalev will land some shots and win some early rounds... but overall he'll have a really hard time landing consistently. Ward's jab and movement will have Kovalev frustrated and tired by the 8th or 9th where Ward takes complete control and sweeps the last part of the fight to win convincingly. Some will say he made it look easy.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Smirk (Dec 14, 2013)

Got my tickets yesterday. Anyone else going?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Kovalev got no love for Ward:

http://www.boxingscene.com/kovalev-on-andre-ward-f-him-ill-all-i-kick-his-ass--108470

Ward on Kovalev (vid):

http://www.boxingscene.com/video-andre-ward-goes-into-detail-on-sergey-kovalev-ppv-clash--108468

Kovalev on Ward (vid):

http://www.boxingscene.com/video-sergey-kovalev-three-part-interview-on-andre-ward--108466


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Is it just me or do sometimes you get the heights completely wrong of fighters, I thought Kovalev was 6'3 and Ward 6'0, so I thought Kovalev would have a big height advantage, didnt realise they were the exact same height, I can see Ward schooling him now


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

60/40 fight in Ward's favour so says the poll (after 104 votes).


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## Smith (May 21, 2013)

I just cant see Ward losing this, as much as if love too. Hes just to good, id favour him against most cruisers as well tbh.

Must be that slick white irish thing.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I'll post my current feelings on this fight from another thread:

I've been thinking about this fight more and more lately and I'm finding hard to pick Ward. If Kovalev was a natural super middleweight and Ward fought him at 168, I'd pick him. Kovalev may be too big though and Ward could outbox him for large stretches, but Kovalev is so accurate. With that accuracy and power, it's hard not to succumb to him.

Ward's answer would be to smother him and fight him up close. Kovalev's inside game is inferior to Ward's, but I've yet to see Ward really impose his will on the inside at 175.

I need to see this guy again





[


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> Is it just me or do sometimes you get the heights completely wrong of fighters, I thought Kovalev was 6'3 and Ward 6'0, so I thought Kovalev would have a big height advantage, didnt realise they were the exact same height, I can see Ward schooling him now


Height doesn't matter much, only reach. In fact, if reach is the same, then the shorter fighter has more advantages than the taller fighter.

FWIW, Sergey has a 1.5" reach advantage on Ward. Not all that significant, especially given Ward's mobility.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Height doesn't matter much, only reach. In fact, if reach is the same, then the shorter fighter has more advantages than the taller fighter.


Huh? Why?


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## Savagekat (May 17, 2013)

I'm honestly a little bit surprised by all the people picking Kovalev in this thread. He is a beast, but I am picking Ward to outbox him. We have seen that a top level boxer will beat a top level puncher many times before, yet people seem to forget. I suppose it is easy to get caught up in the hype that is associated with power. Ward UD. Kov's one of my favorite fighters to watch, but he will be outclassed. I will gladly eat crow and acknowledge his greatness should he manage to win.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Huh? Why?


1: It's harder to punch downward with power.

2: It's harder for the taller man to fight on the inside, limiting his offense options

3: A larger torso is a bigger traget for body punches.

4: It's harder to see punches coming from under, vs from over.

5: In general, a shorter man will naturally have better balance & leverage, and typically can move faster.

There are more. Do some Googling. Or just watch some prime Mike Tyson fights. Or Tommy Burns. Or D.M. Quawi. Or Joe Frazier, or Marciano ....

The main advantage the taller man has, assuming again that reach and weight are the same, is that he can pull back with his head, which means less energy expended for defense. (Assuming he doesn't leave his body open.) A taller man might also have a slight advantage in leverage, having a longer kinetic chain, but this is debatable since other factors play a role in overall energy transfer.

I suppose the taller man would also have an easier time of landing a pull counter, or an OH right over the opponents jab, but those are negated but other punches which favor the shorter man. (Such as the elbow-down short hook.)


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

And now for a fighter who breaks most of the above "rules: Robert Easter Jr. Man, just watch that guy work on the inside. It's unreal.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> 1: It's harder to punch downward with power.


I disagree. Fighters often lose power having to punch upward and gravity is on your side when you punch downwards. Dempsey even recommends using "falling weight" in his manual. Taller fighters can actually get more leverage on shots against a shorter man because they're punching downwards at a lower target.



Cableaddict said:


> 2: It's harder for the taller man to fight on the inside, limiting his offense options


Not if they have the same reach. In fact height on the inside can be an advantage if reach is the same because the head can be tucked at a farther angle. A longer torso also means better upper body flexibility.




























Cableaddict said:


> 1: It's harder to punch downward with power.


I disagree. Fighters often lose power having to punch upward and gravity is on your side when you punch downwards. Dempsey even recommends using "falling weight" in his manual.



Cableaddict said:


> 3: A larger torso is a bigger traget for body punches.


True.



Cableaddict said:


> 4: It's harder to see punches coming from under, vs from over.


True, but unless the height difference is dramatic, it shouldn't make that much of a difference.



Cableaddict said:


> 5: In general, a shorter man will naturally have better balance & leverage, and typically can move faster.


The taller man usually has longer legs and can take wider steps than a shorter man, meaning they move better.

I think the advantages of height outweigh the disadvantages if reach and weight are equal.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I disagree. Fighters often lose power having to punch upward and gravity is on your side when you punch downwards. Dempsey even recommends using "falling weight" in his manual. Taller fighters can actually get more leverage on shots against a shorter man because they're punching downwards at a lower target.
> .


I went to school for Kinesiology. We tested this stuff. The reason punching upwards give more power is because you can get more leg under the punch. The kinetic chain straighter & stronger, and that's a HUGE factor in delivering energy. You can also find this information online.

I don't know anything about the Dempsey idea, but it sound like he's referring to a way for taller fighters to get more power than they would normally have. That doesn't mean "more power than a shorter man punching upwards." It's a different discussion.



Bogotazo said:


> A longer torso also means better upper body flexibility.


Agreed. This is related to my point about a tall fighter being able to pull his head back. I have to think how this would help in other ways, but you are probably correct.

QUOTE="Bogotazo, post: 2680344, member: 1727"] The taller man usually has longer legs and can take wider steps than a shorter man, meaning they move better.
[/QUOTE]

Except the taller man has a higher center of gravity, so is less balanced.... Also, (you have me thinking about this now) suppose you're a tall fighter and you want to throw a switch (shift) punch? You have to be further away from your opponent in order to bring you back foot forward. Not so good.
Perhaps, though, longer legs mean getting away / closing the distance faster, as Wilder is so good at. I agree this can be considered an advantage.

=============

It's kind of a fascinating subject, and makes a good discussion, but there's plenty of data online about this subject if one digs around for a while.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> I went to school for Kinesiology. We tested this stuff. The reason punching upwards give more power is because you can get more leg under the punch. The kinetic chain is stronger. You can also find this information online. I don't know anything about the Dempsey idea, but it sound like he's referring to a way for taller fighters to get more power than they would normally. That doesn't mean more power than a shorter man punching upwards.
> 
> I don't feel like taking time with the rest. Folks can believe what they want, or they can do some research on the subject. It's all available.


You tested whether punching upwards or downwards was more effective? What school was this?

Why would more leg be under the punch if the pivot is going forwards and necessarily affected by gravity? You can dig more on the pivot punching downwards. "Sitting down" on punches to increase power creates a naturally downward trajectory.

I guess you don't have to answer if you don't want to take the time but I think most in boxing would disagree that punching upwards is more effective.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)




----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

@Bogotazo and @Cableaddict doing some sparring for the Sugars I see.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

*


Bogotazo said:



You tested whether punching upwards or downwards was more effective? What school was this?

Click to expand...

*
UMass. 1981. It was my own research study, for my Masters thesis. I was an amateur boxer at the time, so naturally....
*


Bogotazo said:



I guess you don't have to answer

Click to expand...

*


Bogotazo said:


> if you don't want to take the time but I think most in boxing would disagree that punching upwards is more effective.


Yes, it would be very time-consuming, and derail this thread. And there simply is no question about this, no matter who these "most" people are that you refer to. You don't even need fancy equipment to test this, at a basic level: Just take a heavy magazine in your left hand (if you're a righty) and drop / punch it as hard as you can. Do it slightly upwards, then slightly downwards. (Do NOT lean forward, as that of course changes the kinetic chain.) You won't even have to measure anything, you'll feel the difference immediately. End of discussion.

All of the other factors are certainly open to debate / discussion, though, and would make a very interesting thread.


----------



## Brighton Bomber (May 25, 2013)

If I am forced to pick a winner I would go with Ward. It's a tough fight to call, neither have fought anyone as good as the other. 

It will be interesting to see what tactic they both use for this fight, I'm really not sure how it will play out. Will Kovalev box and move like he did with BHop, taking away Ward's inside game and drawing Ward on to his counters and power? Or will he fight his usual style and stalk Ward down and break him down with his scary power?

What will Ward do? He is a boss on the inside but does he risk being so aggressive and giving Kovalev chances to land something big on the way in? Or does Ward adopt a more defensive approach hoping to move and counter?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> UMass. 1981. It was my own research study, for my Masters thesis. I was an amateur boxer at the time, so naturally....
> 
> Yes, it would be very time-consuming, and derail this thread. And there simply is no question about this, no matter who these "most" people are that you refer to. You don't even need fancy equipment to test this, at a basic level: Just take a heavy magazine in your left hand (if you're a righty) and drop / punch it as hard as you can. Do it slightly upwards, then slightly downwards. (Do NOT lean forward, as that of course changes the kinetic chain.) You won't even have to measure anything, you'll feel the difference immediately. End of discussion.
> 
> All of the other factors are certainly open to debate / discussion, though, and would make a very interesting thread.


Slightly upwards is a different thing than someone who might have a significant height advantage over you. I've punched enough heads, bags, and mitts to feel a difference myself, But I'd be interested in reading your thesis, if you don't mind posting it, so that I can understand the more detailed scientific aspects of your argument without you having to spend time explaining it all.


----------



## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

Honestly I haven't picked yet. This is a 50-50 fight. If this was Ward 5 years ago I would say Ward would win a decision probably 8-4ish. But with his layoffs and fighting sub par competition, who knows if he will still have it when he faces the top dog again. I'm more of a fan of Kovalev so I'm going to be rooting for him, but I'm not saying 100% he will win the fight right now. I'll make my pick week of the fight after I re watch their last couple fights


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> Is it just me or do sometimes you get the heights completely wrong of fighters, I thought Kovalev was 6'3 and Ward 6'0, so I thought Kovalev would have a big height advantage, didnt realise they were the exact same height, I can see Ward schooling him now


Depends on the shoes they're wearing.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)




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## chuckscap (Oct 3, 2016)

Kovalev by KO in the 8th


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## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


>


Didn't know Ward was such a deep thinking poet? Must be cuz there is no way he's speaking in a literal sense his fists couldn't shut a paper bag. Hell he can't even manage to shut his own fist half the time throwing that slapping, hand still open left hook.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Vysotsky said:


> Didn't know Ward was such a deep thinking poet? Must be cuz there is no way he's speaking in a literal sense his fists couldn't shut a paper bag. Hell he can't even manage to shut his own fist half the time throwing that slapping, hand still open left hook.


Slaps or not slaps, Ward's idol is Henry Maske.

He's a threat to be reckoned with.


----------



## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Slaps or not slaps, Ward's idol is Henry Maske.
> 
> *He's a threat to be reckoned with*.


He definitely is but in recent outings i can't help but notice
1) His right hand is non existent he literally went entire rounds in the Berrera fight without throwing it.
2) He is effective at landing his highly praised left hook but it's solely a point scoring blow. He outright slaps with it the majority of the time and often times his fist isn't even closed.
3) One of the best jabs in the sport though.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

*It's work time!!! Kicked off training camp on Monday...*
*







































*


----------



## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

I've bitten the bullet and voted Ward . I think it'll be very close though and Ward will have by far his toughest fight. I also think his inactivity and poor opposition these last few years are a real danger .If that doesn't affect him and he's at his best I reckon he'll win an 8-4 type decision.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Stone Rose said:


> I've bitten the bullet and voted Ward . I think it'll be very close though and Ward will have by far his toughest fight. I also think his inactivity and poor opposition these last few years are a real danger .If that doesn't affect him and he's at his best I reckon he'll win an 8-4 type decision.


Yeah I also think it will be like 8-4, with Ward getting possibly dropped or hurt along the way.


----------



## Slick Ric (Apr 7, 2015)

I'm surprised to see the poll so lopsided for Ward. This is pretty much a pick 'em fight for me.


----------



## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

Cormega said:


> I'm surprised to see the poll so lopsided for Ward. This is pretty much a pick 'em fight for me.


The problem with a yes no system. If you're 55-45 in favor of one fighter, you can still only say yes or no.


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## wow_junky (Jun 21, 2012)

If in doubt, back the better boxer, in this case it's Ward. 

Him moving up in weight does complicate things, but I can't think of an example where a world class boxer has lost to a world class puncher even when moving up


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

wow_junky said:


> If in doubt, back the better boxer, in this case it's Ward.
> 
> Him moving up in weight does complicate things, but I can't think of an example where a world class boxer has lost to a world class puncher even when moving up


I don't disagree with "back the better boxer" as a general rule, but -

Hopkins wasn't a world-class boxer?

Campillo didn't suck, either.

OK, both were past their primes, but both were also COMPLETELY owned. In both cases it wasn't even slightly competitive.
--------------------------

How about Paulie vs Broner & Paulie vs Porter? - Those guys weren't EVEN world class punchers, but they both managed to wear down Paulie, and IMO Paulie WAS a world class boxer. (others will disagree, but screw 'em. :lol: )


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## wow_junky (Jun 21, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> I don't disagree with "back the better boxer" as a general rule, but -
> 
> Hopkins wasn't a world-class boxer?
> 
> ...


Understand where you are coming from, I am thinking the better boxer will win if the two are on the same level. Kov is a level above Camp and BHop, BHop (the better of the two) was top 3 at 175, Ward and Kov are arguably top 3 p4p


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Kovalev talking about his mate Pascal


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Kovalev a straight G


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## Slick Ric (Apr 7, 2015)

dyna said:


> Kovalev a straight G


Indeed.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

After calling Pascal a piece of shit I like the idea of Kovalev scrolling through a selection of emojis trying to find one that accurately represents a children house.


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## homebrand (May 21, 2013)

it should be competetive, hopefully close, but i'm surprised by the amount of people picking Kovalev. i don't see it as a 50/50 fight, i'd say Ward starts 60/40 favourite. He's just more skilled in every department. Kovalev holds the advantage in power, but Ward has the skils to deal with it, imo.

that said, i want Kovalev to win.


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## Jon_Snow (Sep 10, 2016)

Such a difficult fight to call, Ward is the superior boxer but has been hurt in the past and is mobing up a division to fight a massive puncher whose boxing skills are under-rated, Ward's build up to this fight hasn't been the best but Kovalev didnt look his best against Chilemba either who is a spoiler like Ward. 

I'm fighting the urge to say the better boxer will win and that skills pay the bills and thus a Ward win on points but i think Kovalev will catch him and hurt him and won't let him off the hook. So Kov TKO in about the 6th


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## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> I don't disagree with "back the better boxer" as a general rule, but -
> 
> Hopkins wasn't a world-class boxer?
> 
> ...


Pauly was unlucky not to get the decision against Broner, I thought he edged it, myself.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Lol worth watching just for Jeff Mayweather.

Why do so many people pronounce it "Kovalov"??






Dude at 1:40 gives good insight but says "smuggle" lol


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Lol worth watching just for Jeff Mayweather.
> 
> Why do so many people pronounce it "Kovalov"??
> 
> ...


Because Kovelev is love.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


>


Damn Ward and his trainer just LOVE to play the victim card.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Is it just me or is Shane sounding less punchy?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

What are the best promos people have seen for this fight? I'm hyped enough as it is but there's nothing like a well executed promo to get the pulse up.


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## Someguy101 (Jun 4, 2013)

This is a fascinating fight. Hard to pick.

Ward is the better boxer.

But by round 12 Ward was struggling with Frochs pace. Fans can cry but its accurate. 

Pascal and Froch went life and death.

Kovalev deatroyed Pascal. Twice.

Ward has been inactive and his footwork is clearly diminished.



If this were 3 years ago I would pick Ward. Barely. But picking Ward after his lst few taxi driver opponents is like picking Haye to beat Fury or Joshua after beating his.

I am picking Kovalev. He went for the KO vs Chilemba and looked bad. He will be patient and punish Ward from the outside like he did Hopkins.


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## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Is it just me or is Shane sounding less punchy?


That's Shane sounding less punchy? The fuck has he sounded like before now? James Toney?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> That's Shane sounding less punchy? The fuck has he sounded like before now? James Toney?


He never spoke that clearly to be honest. For a while though he was really slurring his words, I don't hear him slurring there, just sounding like a dad.


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## Lampley (Jun 4, 2013)

Buddy has put on a few. ...

I can't wait for this fight. It won't make up for a horrible past few months, but at least it's something to look forward to.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=346599005685462


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Nice clip. Thx, Bogo.


Deadly technique there, right from the shoulder. That's a really strong kinetic chain.

Also notice how high Sergey is keeping his elbows? Higher than usual, I think. (No time to study his old fights right now.) I imagine this is to help nullify a Ward inside counter attack.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


>


I wish people would stop with this shit. "These Cubans who come over here and don't like to sell out".

Yudel Johnson
Rances Barthelemy
Yukrokis Gamboa
Sulivan Barrera
Y. Gonzales 
Yoan Pablo Hernandez

all of them are exciting and offensive Cuban fighters. Who are the "boring" ones? Lara, Rigo and Abril? Ok, fuck off. Wait until Arlen Lopez defects.


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## CASH_718 (Jan 24, 2016)

Bogotazo said:


> Lol worth watching just for Jeff Mayweather.
> 
> Why do so many people pronounce it "Kovalov"??
> 
> ...


Floyd wishes he had half the personality his uncle had.


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## OneTime (Nov 10, 2014)

CASH_718 said:


> Floyd wishes he had half the personality his uncle had.


*uncles


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## conradically (Jul 12, 2013)

great video on Kovalev - Ward from Lee Wylie.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Throwback


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## mick557 (Jun 6, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

Kovalev has Gvozdyk and Usyk as sparring partners. Anyone know who Ward is using?


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## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)




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## chuckscap (Oct 3, 2016)

Vysotsky said:


> Kovalev has Gvozdyk and Usyk as sparring partners. Anyone know who Ward is using?


Mayweather's girlfriend


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## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

chuckscap said:


> Mayweather's girlfriend


lol Just saw that Fonfara is in his camp.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Vysotsky said:


> Kovalev has Gvozdyk and Usyk as sparring partners. Anyone know who Ward is using?


Ward spars with Jesus.

I hear he provides a pretty tough workout. - really hard to hit, unless you can nail him in the corner.

:shifty


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> Ward spars with Jesus.
> 
> I hear he provides a pretty tough workout. - really hard to hit, unless you can nail him in the corner.
> 
> :shifty


Nice. But nail him against the post would have worked better.


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## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

I have a funny feeling Ward is going to make Kovalev look stupid and run rings around him. We'll see though.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Not sure if I buy this "Andre's past prime" talk. He's still in it as far as I'm concerned.


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)




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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)




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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

I'm watching the My Fight thing and was wondering about why Kovalev's mum is still living in his childhood home. Can someone please provide some context about that? Does he/can he share his earnings with her or is it not as simple as that? Are there limits on how he can share his wealth or is that not relevant because she just wants to live where she wants to live and stay connected with her community and financial comfort isn't relevant? I'm assuming there are perhaps cultural aspects involved but I'm just curious.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> I'm watching the My Fight thing and was wondering about why Kovalev's mum is still living in his childhood home. Can someone please provide some context about that? Does he/can he share his earnings with her or is it not as simple as that? Are there limits on how he can share his wealth or is that not relevant because she just wants to live where she wants to live and stay connected with her community and financial comfort isn't relevant? I'm assuming there are perhaps cultural aspects involved but I'm just curious.


It seems like they renovated it and have greater access to it. So they didn't used to have a shower, now they have a shower. One room was being rented out to an older lady, which they seem to now control like the rest of the house. So it seems like they fixed it up and have less people living there, and after all that doesn't seem like a bad place to live.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Looking at the start of this video, I think Ward might try keeping Kovalev's right hand at home by stretching out his lead hand like he loves to do, and shooting straight right hands down the pipe. It might be the punch Kovalev is expecting the least.






Floyd did something similar to Oscar


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Looking at the start of this video, I think Ward might try keeping Kovalev's right hand at home by stretching out his lead hand like he loves to do, and shooting straight right hands down the pipe. I*t might be the punch Kovalev is expecting the least.*


- Unless Sergey is reading this thread. :smile

BTW, that move is technically illegal, even though a lot of well-established fighters get away with it. It will be interesting to see what the ref in this fight does. (Same for excessive holding.)

Do we know yet who the ref will be? I can't find anything online.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

During the big OKC-Warriors game TNT gave Andre Ward two minutes in the 2nd quarter to discuss the Kovalev fight


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Full undercard announced:

http://www.boxingscene.com/sergey-kovalev-vs-andre-ward-undercard-announced--110611


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Full undercard announced:
> 
> http://www.boxingscene.com/sergey-kovalev-vs-andre-ward-undercard-announced--110611


Not a lot of big names on that card, but there could be quite a few great fights.

Great to See Darmani Rock back in action so soon. This is a HW to keep an eye on. Aggressive, thudding power in both hands, can switch to southpaw... He's a little undisciplined, but that makes him more fun to watch. Too bad he's not on the main card.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)




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## Thomas Crewz (Jul 23, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> - Unless Sergey is reading this thread. :smile
> 
> BTW, that move is technically illegal, even though a lot of well-established fighters get away with it. It will be interesting to see what the ref in this fight does. (Same for excessive holding.)
> 
> Do we know yet who the ref will be? I can't find anything online.


Pretty sure its only illegal if you are pushing your glove into your opponents face/ eyes. Checking you opponents glove like Floyd is doing isnt illegal.

Not 100% on that though so open to being proved wrong


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Thomas Crewz said:


> Pretty sure its only illegal if you are pushing your glove into your opponents face/ eyes. Checking you opponents glove like Floyd is doing isnt illegal.
> 
> Not 100% on that though so open to being proved wrong


Correct, it's illegal to hold you hand straight out. That's what Ward & Wlad do a lot.

I wasn't referring to Floyd, I was referring to the video Bogotazo linked earlier.


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## gumbo2176 (May 17, 2013)

My heart says Kovalev, but my brain says Ward, especially if I was to put money on the fight.

I like the fact Kovalev is a fighter that likes to fight and has over twice as many bouts over the same amount of time as Ward. Ward's inactivity is epic.


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## mick557 (Jun 6, 2013)

Robert Byrd has been confirmed as the ref for the fight.
.


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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

Kovalev KO. Easy work.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


>


Great fashion sence from The Great.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Both JDJ and Virgil Hunter were very objective and complimentary in deciding these advantages.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

Still cant make my fucking mind up, its what title fights should be all about.


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## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

I just hope I don't get too drunk before the fight with my anxiety building up.


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## Thomas Crewz (Jul 23, 2013)

Well worth a watch this:






By Connor Reubush. Good MMA and boxing writer/fight breakdown video maker.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Berliner said:


> Kovalev KO. Easy work.


...And there goes Kovalev's chances.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Simulating this fight on my historically accurate PS3.

From the simulator that brought you accurate predictions for Wilder-Stiverne, Matthysse-Peterson, Alexander-Maidana, Khan-Maidana, Garcia-Judah, Canelo-Trout, Mayweather-Cotto, Wlad-Haye, Bute-Froch, and Pacquiao-Bradley:










Round 1: Kovalev has the higher output behind the jab, but Ward is keeping a tight guard, standing pretty close, and landing some sharp counters now and then. Kovalev winging some hard shots to the head and body early. Close round Kovalev probably edged

Round 2: Ward is pressing a little bit more and landing his shots going in and out. Also landing a counter-jab more frequently. Kovalev lands a good right hand counter that lets him come forward again and land some shots. Very close round, I'd say Ward edged it.

Round 3: Ward comes out pressing even harder. He stuns Kovalev with a left uppercut! After holding Kovalev tries to go back on the attack but gets pushed back again. Big exchange as the two try to time straight punches from the outside. Ward targeting the body with his jab. Hard counter combo by Kovalev up top. Close round, can't call it.

Round 4: Kovalev counters Ward as he comes forward. kovalev landing punches at range. Ward a bit too static at times, but he's keeping the fight in the center of the ring. Kovalev having much more success picking straight shots at range and lands solid rights. He backs Ward into a corner and Ward has to fight him off. He's cut on the left cheek. Kovalev round.

Round 5: Ward starts the round more active with multiple jabs and body-head combos on the inside. Kovalev having a hard time getting to Ward's body. A lot of feinting and posing from both. Ward lands a sharp counter 1-2. He jabs Kovalev coming in and seems to have more sense of distance. They trade jabs. Ward's round I think. The commentators are saying at this point it's a hard round to score.

Round 6: Kovalev still looking for that body but not getting it. Ward Pot-shotting. Kovalev only landing jabs. Big left hook from Ward. Ward landing shots behind the jab. Counter right from Kovalev. That left uppercut has been landing a lot from Ward. They trade jabs. Ward close. "Tough to get a sense of who's really up, and that's a testament to both guys."

Round 7. Ward is backed onto the ropes and the two exchange punches. Kovalev finding new success to the body. Nice counter left uppercut by Ward as Kovalev comes in. Kovalev now pushing Ward back with volume. He doesn't land every shot but some are getting through. He has Ward on the ropes again, making him fight, but Ward escapes. Again Ward is caught on the ropes and escapes. Kovalev round.

Round 8. Ward starts the round landing sharp counters and landing a big left hand up top. Ward using his jab, Kovalev answering with his. Nice counter-right from Ward. Big counter-right from Kovalev as Ward comes forward. They trade jabs. Kovalev landing right hands. Ward lands some jabs, Kovalev answers. Close round, not sure.

Round 9: Ward comes out with sharp punches, a jab to the body and right up top. Kovalev answers with straights to the body. Ward backs Kovalev up by the ropes and lands a straight to the body. More body shots from Ward before stepping back and going back to the jab. Ward shoves Kovalev They exchange, and Ward knocks Kovalev down with a right uppercut! End of the round.

Round 10. Kovalev comes out swinging, throwing punches in bunches and hammering the body. Ward tries to shove him but Kovalev doesn't stop coming. Ward has more success once he closes the distance. Close round.

Round 11: The commentators Kovalev coming forward behind straight punches. Ward relying on his jab. Big right uppercut from Ward and he starts to come forward. Kovalev reestablishes range with his jab. He catches Ward coming inwith a right hand. More jabs from Kovalev. Body shot from Kovalev. Sharp straight counters from Ward.

Round 12: Kovalev misses a big right hand as he backs Ward into the ropes. Ward comes forward and lands a body shot and uppercut. Kovalev returns with his own uppercut. Ward landing accurate sharp shots to the body and head, but Kovalev answering. Kovalev goes to the body. Big counter uppercut from Ward. Sharp counter jab from Ward. Right from Kovalev.

*The result: Ward by Unanimous Decision*









*
Punch-Stats:*


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## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Simulating this fight on my historically accurate PS3.
> 
> From the simulator that brought you accurate predictions for Wilder-Stiverne, Matthysse-Peterson, Alexander-Maidana, Khan-Maidana, Garcia-Judah, Canelo-Trout, Mayweather-Cotto, Wlad-Haye, Bute-Froch, and Pacquiao-Bradley:
> 
> ...


Is it using the Ward of old or the Ward of now? Idk how that thing works and how up to date it is with the fighter.


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## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

I imagine Ward would body spam in Fight Night


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## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/799715442835136518


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## The Kraken (Apr 19, 2014)

I'm a Calzaghe fanboy so there's a BIG part of me that wants Kovalev to deck him for legacy purposes, but the honest boxing fan in me sees Ward as a boxing savant in the ring, people talk about his last performances being unimpressive but that's all relative, ullivan Barrera for example is not a bum, he was a big strong undefeated well schooled boxer-puncher, but Ward completely shut him down and his sharpness at times was frightening,

I think Ward is on another level skillwise but One to Watches post is interesting, if he considers Arthur Abraham a murderous puncher then he might be in for a BIG surprise


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## Slimtrae (Aug 10, 2015)

Nice article in the CHB news forum " most murderous punchers Ward faced"

Miranda is a hard puncher...but imo they are looping shot where he never really learned how to turn his shots over.

Abraham was the hardest. ..but Krusher throws his bombs over and over. ..never going into that shell defence Arthur would do-which gives time to recoop.
Froch nor Kessler can prepare him.
The closest bomb thrower to Kov imo is either MW GGG or Pavlik.
Ward hasn't faced either. He will be at his best...but Kov will be the hardest puncher he will ever face....provided he doesn't go CW or HW.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Muff said:


> Is it using the Ward of old or the Ward of now? Idk how that thing works and how up to date it is with the fighter.


Ward and Kovalev are both created characters, so I was able to customize them myself. Part of the pride I have in running the simulation is that if the outcome is accurate, that means I accurately gauged the fighters' style and attributes. For Ward aging I took away some points off his foot speed and head movement and I think a bit of handspeed. They ended up really close in the parameters of foot and handspeed with Ward only having a slight edge. Ward had greater accuracy, block strength, and head movement while Kovalev had much greater power and the better chin.

It's actually a really good simulation given how many different stats there are and the AI differentiates a lot of different styles. I set Ward as "boxer" and Kovalev as "boxer-puncher".


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## EL MAS MACHO (Jun 6, 2012)

Radio Raheem being a troll as usual. Didn't he piss Virgil off too?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## The Kraken (Apr 19, 2014)

Bogotazo said:


>


Atlas is full of shit


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

http://www.boxingscene.com/marquez-barrera-morales-side-with-andre-ward-beat-kovalev--110856

http://www.boxingscene.com/video-jackson-duva-react-kovalev-vs-ward-weigh--110879


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## The Kraken (Apr 19, 2014)

I think Kovalev will lose, but I also still think Atlas is full of shit


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Berliner said:


> Kovalev KO. Easy work.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Finally a fucking fight. let's go!


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Ward and Kovalev are both created characters, so I was able to customize them myself. Part of the pride I have in running the simulation is that if the outcome is accurate, that means I accurately gauged the fighters' style and attributes. For Ward aging I took away some points off his foot speed and head movement and I think a bit of handspeed. They ended up really close in the parameters of foot and handspeed with Ward only having a slight edge. Ward had greater accuracy, block strength, and head movement while Kovalev had much greater power and the better chin.
> 
> It's actually a really good simulation given how many different stats there are and the AI differentiates a lot of different styles. I set Ward as "boxer" and Kovalev as "boxer-puncher".


Interesting.

- but you listed all the bouts it got right. How many did it get wrong? (Be honest, now!)

Well, probably better than Dwyer, at least. :lol:


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## BrotherMouzone (Oct 28, 2014)

Have voted - here is my prefight analysis and prediction for tonight's fight: http://masterclassboxing.blogspot.com/2016/11/ward-vs-kovalev-prefight-analysis-and.html


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## ChampionsForever (Jun 5, 2013)

Ward by points, I just hope it's a good fight though.


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## desertlizard (Dec 29, 2015)

big respect for Ward and stepping into the ring against the bigger man, but my money is on kovalev, all talk reduces to a shit pipe tonight


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

desertlizard said:


> big respect for Ward and stepping into the ring* against the bigger man,* but my money is on kovalev, all talk reduces to a shit pipe tonight


Stronger man, not bigger.

They are exactly the same size & weight. (and Ward doesn't appear to be carryng any fat at all.)


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## desertlizard (Dec 29, 2015)

Cableaddict said:


> Stronger man, not bigger.
> 
> They are exactly the same size & weight. (and Ward doesn't appear to be carryng any fat at all.)


yeah stronger man, i was just pointing out Kov being the one at LHW as opposite ward coming from SMW plus we don't know yet how they ll' weigh in tonight


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## Dave (Jun 1, 2012)

Always respected Ward for his skills and levels but tbh ignored him where possible due to his boring wins. I feel bad now, having spent a bit of time catching up with his life story, Virgil taking him on as a god-son e.t.c, now I feel like i've been groomed to like him, x-factor style. I really hope for a decent fight now, i'll be gutted to witness a UDP win for Ward, but i've warmed to the guy a lot today.


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## Slimtrae (Aug 10, 2015)

Pernell picked Kov, ok.


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

Can't even work out who I want to win this fight never mind who I think will . I'm swinging slightly towards Ward on both .


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1878695212364373


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## Arran (Jun 21, 2012)

Just gone balls deep on Kovalev rounds 1 to 3, cant fucking afford it...and im fucked if it doesnt come in....which it likely wont. Im hoping ward feels kovalevs power and retreats.


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

Arran said:


> Just gone balls deep on Kovalev rounds 1 to 3, cant fucking afford it...and im fucked if it doesnt come in....which it likely wont. Im hoping ward feels kovalevs power and retreats.


What odds ?


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## Arran (Jun 21, 2012)

Stone Rose said:


> What odds ?


well 300 returns 5700, cant remember the exact odds without checking my phone which is now upstairs


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

Arran said:


> well 300 returns 5700, cant remember the exact odds without checking my phone which is now upstairs


Good luck arran I'd be very surprised but kov does punch like a mule


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1878695212364373


Johnny Nelson stands alone. :lol:


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## KO-KING (Nov 9, 2014)

Ward is just the better fighter, Kovalev is good but not great, Andre is great, size advantage won't be much. 

Kovalev can't Ko ward with one punch, he can hurt him sure, but Andre ties him up if that happens. 

Ward points 116-112


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Interesting.
> 
> - but you listed all the bouts it got right. How many did it get wrong? (Be honest, now!)
> 
> Well, probably better than Dwyer, at least. :lol:


It got a handful wrong. Marquez-Bradley, Hopkins-Dawson (although it creepily had Hopkins by 2nd round KO, which was the round the foul happened, leading to a No Contest in which Hopkins defended his belt  ) and I think one or two other ones (one also involving Dawson I think). I forgot to add Broner-Malignaggi also, and Cotto-Canelo. So I'm still happy with the overall record.


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