# Who´s greater: Floyd Jr or Roy Jones Jr ??



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

discuss.


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## MrJotatp4p (May 23, 2013)

Depends on how you look at things. I like to judge fighters at their absolute best prime for prime. For me that would be Roy Jones over Mayweather and anyone else. No one has ever looked as dominate as him in my opinion.


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## MrBiggerthan (Jun 4, 2013)

Roy Jones- Achieved a lot more and cherry picked less. Floyd just cherry picks. Clearly I am ignoring the post prime numerous losses after he stepped down from HW and beating Ruiz, as essentially a MW.

I would love to see Floyd try fighting at higher weight classes and having ambition other than picking up cheques.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Superman Roy Jones! arty :happy :hammer :happy arty



H2H GOAT and also accomplished.


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## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

MrBiggerthan said:


> Roy Jones- Achieved a lot more and cherry picked less. Floyd just cherry picks. Clearly I am ignoring the post prime numerous losses after he stepped down from HW and beating Ruiz, as essentially a MW.
> 
> I would love to see Floyd try fighting at higher weight classes and having ambition other than picking up cheques.


This is a really retarded post. Like, really, really retarded. Floyd faced a much, much higher quality of opposition than Jones did. You also seem to forget Floyd started his career at 130 and is now beating people who probably weigh around 170 come fight night. You are very, very wrong here.


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## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

Jones. Clearly has the best top two victories (dominated a prime, undefeated, top 2 P4P champion in James Toney and a young ATG and future dominant champion in Bernard Hopkins) along with spectacular weight-jumping credentials (going from middleweight to heavyweight and toying with quality fighters throughout) and looks clearly better on film at his best. I suppose you could argue that Floyd was never beaten like Roy was, but this was only after winning a title at heavyweight and _then moving back down to solidify himself as a champion again. _

What he did was amazing, and he was a greater fighter than Mayweather, IMO.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

This is a hard one. It can be argued that Mayweather > Roy Jones in terms of H2H..they're really even. It's all down to simple opinion. 
Roy looked more *impressive* on film IMO but Mayweather is RJJ's equal H2H IMO.

I'm not much of a fan of Roy Jones' opposition honestly. 
*Jones Jr*
W Toney - signature win
W Hopkins - still young
W Malinga - old man 
W McCallum - the dude was so old, it's not THE McCallum
W Lucas 
W Griffin
W Hill - was getting over the hill
W Johnson - haven't seen the fight, I don't know how old this version of Johnson was
W Harding
W Woods
W Ruiz - Roided RJJ taking on Ruiz. Don't think it wasn't roided.
W Tarver 1 - Jones Jr was past prime but did well to beat Tarver

Everyone else were just complete contenders that any ATG would look amazing against. 
These scalps really aren't very impressive..
Roy did manage to shut out all of the contenders, but still...

*Mayweather*
W Alvarez at LMW
W Cotto - more competitive at LMW vs Mayweather than he would be at 140, 147 - fact
W Guerrero
W Ortiz
W Mosley - over the hill
W Marquez - I give Mayweather FULL credit for this win, I don't care that it's a 'fat 135lber version' of Marquez - FMJ would never lose
W Hatton
W De La Hoya - over the hill
W Judah
W Mitchell
W Gatti
W Castillox2
W Corrales
W Genaro
W Chavez

It's so clear Mayweather's resume beats Jones..however Jones has the prime scalp in Toney who's a Top 100 ATG
Mayweather shutout everybody else, even top fighters. 
Mayweather climbed up from 130, 135, 140, 147, 154 - 5 weight division champion. Has better longevity.
Roy Jones - 160, 168, 174...Heavyweight!


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

@The Undefeated Gaul You never saw the Jones vs Johnson fight!? It was the unification fight. Johnson just 1 punched the champ unbeaten Guthrie one fight before. Guthrie's career was ended that night.


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Roy destroying Floyd in the poll.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Roy also beat unbeaten Gonzalez who went on to beat that Dariusz fella.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Roy Jones Junior.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

*I will like to hear reasons why Roy Jones is greater than Floyd. They're quite even to me..
*
Their arguments will probably be:
1. Toney, Hopkins
2. Looked more impressive on film
3. TBE
4. Heavyweight

Mayweather response:

1. Legit win against ATG Toney. Hopkins was still young, and it was his experience post-Jones Jr that made him the fighter that he is
2. Mayweather had better overall competition than Jones Jr so it's harder to look more impressive, although it's agreed that in Mayweather's physical prime, he's the most impressive 130lber of all time on film. He had very good competition there as well.
3. Mayweather is TBE
4. Mayweather, who was in his athletic prime at 130lbs, took on a legit LMW who has talent and has been a pro since age 15. Roy Jones roided his eyeballs out to get to heavyweight.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> @The Undefeated Gaul You never saw the Jones vs Johnson fight!? It was the unification fight. Johnson just 1 punched the champ unbeaten Guthrie one fight before. Guthrie's career was ended that night.


I know I'm in for a good'un! I'm going to enjoy watching it!! Johnson was a beast


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Roy looked more dominant, Gaul. I don´t think Roy lost a round in his prime...well, not as often as Floyd. Many people feel Floyd lost to Castillo and even if you scored that fight for Castillo, you can´t say that Floyd dominated Floyd. Roy did that to his opponents, he dominated in a way floyd didn´t most of the time.


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## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> *I will like to hear reasons why Roy Jones is greater than Floyd. They're quite even to me..
> *
> Their arguments will probably be:
> 1. Toney, Hopkins
> ...


The "Hopkins was green" thing is getting overplayed far too much, Canelo was also young as fuck with only one real fight at the elite level. At least Hopkins proved himself to be one of the finest fighters of this generation years after Roy cleaned his clock with an injury. He had earned two solid wins going into the Jones fight over Gilbert Baptist and Wayne Powell.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

tough to say since they are very even in my eyes. I think Floyd might have the deeper resume though. jones has the elite wins in Toney and Hopkins but I think Floyd has a deeper resume outside of that. Plus Floyd being undefeated has to be considered, he has the greater longevity at this point and probably will never get knocked out like Jones did multiple times. I got to give Floyd a slight edge.


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## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

Vic said:


> Roy looked more dominant, Gaul. I don´t think Roy lost a round in his prime...well, not as often as Floyd. Many people feel Floyd lost to Castillo and even if you scored that fight for Castillo, you can´t say that Floyd dominated Floyd. Roy did that to his opponents, he dominated in a way floyd didn´t most of the time.


Indeed, guys like Guerrero, Ortiz, etc. Won their share of rounds versus Floyd, whereas when those type of fighters fought Roy they either lost every single round conclusively or got stopped.

Jones all day in this one.


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

I think they are close though.....


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hopkins was green is one of the most annoying things ever. Over 90 AM fights and 22 pro fights but he was green..?


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## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Who's dad was better? It had to be Mayweather right.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

O59 said:


> The "Hopkins was green" thing is getting overplayed far too much, Canelo was also young as fuck with only one real fight at the elite level. At least Hopkins proved himself to be one of the finest fighters of this generation years after Roy cleaned his clock with an injury. He had earned two solid wins going into the Jones fight over Gilbert Baptist and Wayne Powell.


I know Hopkins is an ATG now, but I prefer Mayweather's complete shutout at age 36 against a young Canelo who made it to the very top level and is much bigger than Mayweather physically.


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## MrJotatp4p (May 23, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I know Hopkins is an ATG now, but I prefer Mayweather's complete shutout at age 36 against a young Canelo who made it to the very top level and is much bigger than Mayweather physically.


Roy's win over Ruiz shits on the Canelo, Oscar and Mosley wins.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

MrJotatp4p said:


> Roy's win over Ruiz shits on the Canelo, Oscar and Mosley wins.


that's pretty debatable. Ruiz was always a shitty fighter and not even that great of a heavyweight. Jones may have schooled Ruiz but I mean, jones didn't do anything at heavyweight besides that. Any decent heavyweight would have crushed Roy, and Roy knew that.

Canelo at least is an unbeaten, powerful, dangerous talent that couldn't do anything to a near 37 year old. Oscar is a true all time great with experience in the game, and gave Floyd a tough fight.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

A lot of Jones' opposition were very 'Carlos Gerena' like. Mayweather was, on film, GOAT at 130 against the likes of Gerena.
Regardless of whether Jones was more impressive on film, Mayweather fought the more difficult opponents and landed 'near-shutouts/complete shutouts'. I think for greatness, I'd prefer that over complete shutouts against Gerena's.

- Actually have a think about this one guys. Roy Jones was actually matched more suitably for himself as well.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

MrJotatp4p said:


> Roy's win over Ruiz shits on the Canelo, Oscar and Mosley wins.


It's definitely better than Oscar and Mosley. Probably not the shutout over Canelo.
People pretend that Roy never roided to get to heavyweight in the first place. For me this takes a way a huge chunk from the win. You can have fun giving credit to roiders but it's not for me.


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## MrJotatp4p (May 23, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> It's definitely better than Oscar and Mosley. Probably not the shutout over Canelo.
> People pretend that Roy never roided to get to heavyweight in the first place. For me this takes a way a huge chunk from the win. You can have fun giving credit to roiders but it's not for me.


Jones certainly did fail a post fight drug test after beating Ruiz so he is innocent until proven guilty on that.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

MrJotatp4p said:


> Jones certainly did fail a post fight drug test after beating Ruiz so he is innocent until proven guilty on that.


That doesn't make sense?


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Remember that you all give Erik Morales pretty big credit for his win over Jesus Chavez. Mayweather deserves that same level of credit. Chavez is never named by people, he was actually a good fighter. I'm surprised that Mitchell isn't mentioned either! I know Mitchell-Mayweather was a boring fight, but Mayweather deserves credit for that win.


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## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

Roy has Toney

But Floyd has a much much deeper resume.


Also Floyd hasnt spent half his career rolling around the canvas.


Floyd is the all round better fighter as well.


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## gyllespie (Jun 17, 2013)

If you compare them prime for prime Floyd was still more rounded. Roy just had freakish offense that enabled him to blitz through his opponents. He didn't need defense since his offense was so devastating. But that's like saying you don't need a condom since you are a self-proclaimed master at pulling out. If you compare them overall, which you should since longevity matters, Floyd really has an advantage for being able to fight at a high level longer or maybe even become a greater boxer in his mid 30's. In my book old man Roy's embarrassing knockout losses keep taxing his legacy.

Both are gifted. If Roy is a tank that can wipe out an entire camp but eventually break down to wear and tear then Floyd is a cunning sniper who can slowly and methodically take out an entire army using his skills, wit, athleticism, experience, and talent. It's a close call but Floyd's longevity and ability to adjust in the ring gives him an edge over Roy.


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## MrJotatp4p (May 23, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> That doesn't make sense?


You said people pretend that ROY didn't roid up to fight Ruiz and I stated Roy didn't fail a drug test so that can't be proven. Makes perfect sense. You discredit his win against Ruiz bc you think he roided up for that fight even though he didn't fail a drug test for that fight. That doesn't make sense.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

MrJotatp4p said:


> You said people pretend that ROY didn't roid up to fight Ruiz and I stated Roy didn't fail a drug test so that can't be proven. Makes perfect sense. You discredit his win against Ruiz bc you think he roided up for that fight even though he didn't fail a drug test for that fight. That doesn't make sense.


Oh. It's still clear he roided his eyeballs out, I'm not giving him full credit for that win because it's obvious. 20lbs of muscle in a few months. I'm not bothered with the backlash you aim to give me as a result of saying this either because I don't buy the 'but you're arguing against the drugs test' bs, moving on..


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## Pimp C (Jun 3, 2013)

Too close both guys IMO are top 25 ATGs.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

For anyone who's saying it's close...remember Floyd still has 4 fights left which will take him to age 38. I actually think he'll take it to 50-0 because he'd be his own man after the Showtime contract is over, and will make a scary amount of money by that time, in which case, he'll be 39.


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## MrJotatp4p (May 23, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Oh. It's still clear he roided his eyeballs out, I'm not giving him full credit for that win because it's obvious. 20lbs of muscle in a few months. I'm not bothered with the backlash you aim to give me as a result of saying this either because I don't buy the 'but you're arguing against the drugs test' bs, moving on..


I don't have to give you backlash or waste my time on it. Moving on.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> For anyone who's saying it's close...remember Floyd still has 4 fights left which will take him to age 38. I actually think he'll take it to 50-0 because he'd be his own man after the Showtime contract is over, and will make a scary amount of money by that time, in which case, he'll be 39.


Floyd a G


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Was dead set on Roy for a long time. I was honestly flabbergasted by Floyd this month though. Not that Nelo is an alltimer or anything, just that's he's still so sickeningly good this late in the game makes me feel like he's the shit and all that, have an even higher opinion of him.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Mayweather actually passed my man Whitaker for top 5 best I've seen on film with all this consistently amazing work.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

"Best" is becoming more popular than "Greater". People starting to drop all that historical context talk and roll simply with who impresses them the most.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

It's like @Dealt_with argument for Rigondeaux as the best Cuban fighter. I thought it was fucking compelling.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

Floyd Mayweather Jr is greater. RJJ beats Floyd prime vs prime.

*RJJ:*
Hopkins(HOF)
McCallum(HOF)
Hill(HOF)
Toney
Tarver
Gonzalez
Ruiz
Woods
Harding
Griffin
R. Johnson
Sosa
Malinga
Del Valle
Vaca
Pazienza

*Mayweather:*
Hernandez (HOF)
Castillo 2x(HOF)
Marquez (HOF)
De La Hoya (HOF)
Corrales
Mosley (HOF)
Cotto (HOF)
Gatti (HOF)
Hatton (???)
Guerrero
Alvarez
Baldomir
Judah
Ortiz
C. Hernandez
Chavez
Manfredy
Corley
V. Sosa


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> Floyd Mayweather Jr is greater. RJJ beats Floyd prime vs prime.
> 
> *RJJ:*
> Hopkins(HOF)
> ...


Hernandez and Castillo aren't in the HOF :think


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> It's like @Dealt_with argument for Rigondeaux as the best Cuban fighter. I thought it was fucking compelling.


I can't take amateur boxing too seriously, as compelling an argument as it is. That Cordoba fight is still a big stain for me.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Genaro's in the World Boxing HOF :yep


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

Accomplishments: Not even close, Floyd takes it too:

10x champion in 5 weight classes. 15x champion if you include Ring/Lineal titles.

130: Lineal/WBC champion
135: Ring/WBC champion
140: WBC champion
147: 2x Ring champion/Lineal champion/2x WBC/IBF
154: Ring/2x WBC/WBA champion


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Genaro's in the World Boxing HOF :yep


:rofl Christ really? RIP Genaro but it's only because he's from California.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> I can't take amateur boxing too seriously, as compelling an argument as it is. That Cordoba fight is still a big stain for me.


Right, but I guess what I'm saying is that these days people are more inclined to bust out a H2H or Skills/Ability list than they are the old fashioned ATG list -- regardless of whatever opinions they have. It's simply more fun to talk about fighters in which there's plenty to take in and watch. Period.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Right, but I guess what I'm saying is that these days people are more inclined to bust out a H2H or Skills/Ability list than they are the old fashioned ATG list -- regardless of whatever opinions they have. It's simply more fun to talk about fighters in which there's plenty to take in and watch. Period.


Agree 100%. Napoles still looks pretty as FUCK on film though and he's a legit All-timer.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Genaro's in the World Boxing HOF :yep


Yep. I saw that before posting it. But the WBHOF and IBHOF are both pretty much shitty lists for the most part. For example, you will find Barry McGuigan in both. But the WBHOF does not have Gatti in it.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Hernandez and Castillo aren't in the HOF :think


And neither is Hopkins, Cotto, DLH, Mosley or Marquez. Maybe "HOF" next to active fighters indicate "future".


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> And neither is Hopkins, Cotto, DLH, Mosley or Marquez. Maybe "HOF" next to active fighters indicate "future".


Ehrm....Corrales and Hernandez stopped fighting awhile ago. Hopkins, Cotto, Mosley, Marquez are still active.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> :rofl Christ really? RIP Genaro but it's only because he's from California.


He is considered as a top 10 great Super Featherweight of all time, and beat a top 3 Super Featherweight of all time, Azumah Nelson.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> He is considered as a top 10 great Super Featherweight of all time, and beat a top 3 Super Featherweight of all time, Azumah Nelson.


Randy Shields is in the WBHOF.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Ehrm....Corrales and Hernandez stopped fighting awhile ago. Hopkins, Cotto, Mosley, Marquez are still active.


Lol. Do you even understand is going on in the post?

First, there's nothing next to Corrales. Hernandez is in the WBHOF.

2. I put HOF next to actual HOF'ers and fighters who have a high chance of actually getting in, AKA future HOF'ers, after they retire. You mention


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> Lol. Do you even understand is going on in the post?
> 
> First, there's nothing next to Corrales. Hernandez is in the WBHOF.
> 
> 2. I put HOF next to actual HOF'ers and fighters who have a high chance of actually getting in, AKA future HOF'ers, after they retire. *You mention*


:lol:

Is this a new form of insult? Like "moron" "idiot" "******" "bellend" etc... STFU, you mention.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

So is Marvin Hagler, so is SRL, so is Ali, so is Basilio, so is JCC, so is....you understand where I am going with this?


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> So is Marvin Hagler, so is SRL, so is Ali, so is Basilio, so is JCC, so is....you understand where I am going with this?


Anyone going by the WBHOF is trying too hard.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> Is this a new form of insult? Like "moron" "idiot" "******" "bellend" etc... STFU, you mention.


No, I was going to keep typing, then clicked reply.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Anyone going by the WBHOF is trying too hard.


Dude, the IBHOF and the WBHOF both suck. They both have almost the same fighters inducted, with the WBHOF picking a bit more freely. Neither lists are legit. They are both a laughing stock among other sports. The W/IBHOF has a list comparable to MLB's HOF having Babe Ruth and AJ Burnett. It sucks, it's inconsistent and ridiculous how it can have Sugar Ray Robinson and Arturo Gatti. That's just insane. If you don't like one list, don't praise the other one.


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## the cobra (Jun 6, 2013)

Still Roy.

Things are getting pretty damn close though.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Surely the IBHOF is more reputable. Kev, were not going to see eye to eye on this so there is no point.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

Surely human shit is cleaner than dog shit. Turbotime, we're not going to see eye to eye on this, so there is no point.


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Roy won the poll already, wide.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> Surely human shit is cleaner than dog shit. Turbotime, we're not going to see eye to eye on this, so there is no point.


Mate you're the one acting like beating hall of famers means something :conf Like you said, Gatti is there :lol:


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

O59 said:


> The "Hopkins was green" thing is getting overplayed far too much, Canelo was also young as fuck with only one real fight at the elite level. At least Hopkins proved himself to be one of the finest fighters of this generation years after Roy cleaned his clock with an injury. He had earned two solid wins going into the Jones fight over Gilbert Baptist and Wayne Powell.


Hopkins being green, is a laughable excuse to him being clearly beat in his physical prime. Hopkins was primed far before Trinidad fight. I'd say his prime began around 95. People say well he loss a fight after Jones, so did Toney. Most fighters when they loss their first big fight, sometimes lose their next... Hopkins have a better excuse then most, as his performance again SM was due to the altitude he was fighting at, in the rematch he removed all doubt how better he was. It's a poor excuse, to me Hopkins was in his physical prime and he had skills. Craft comes with age, for instance, SRL was more crafty in the fight with Hagler than he was in his fight with Duran.. Duran got into his head among other things, which is a thing that wouldve never happened to a older SRL. Does this mean SRL wasn't prime when he fought Duran?? All because a fighter learns more tricks doesnt mean they weren't prime before. Toney vs Nunn is not more crafty then Toney vs Jirov... this can go on and on. Most people who say Hopkins was green at 28 years old, after having been a pro for 5 years have never seen his fights before RJJ and probably a little after it, they only know Hopkins past 2001, as this was when the media realized how good he was because he beat Trinidad.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Mate you're the one acting like beating hall of famers means something :conf Like you said, Gatti is there :lol:


In both lists, yet one is more reputable :lol:

But yeah, accomplishments in boxing are measured by titles won, HOF'ers beaten, how many weight classes, how many top 10 guys you beat in your division. Gotta take what is given to me, when arguing.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> In both lists, yet one is more reputable :lol:
> 
> But yeah, accomplishments in boxing are measured by titles won, HOF'ers beaten, how many weight classes, how many top 10 guys you beat in your division. Gotta take what is given to me, when arguing.


In both lists, exactly. That's why I could care less who is in the hall of fame as long as the worthy people are inducted, you said yourself both lists are shit so why give fighters a gold star for something so arbitrary :lol:


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

To me it's RJJ without a doubt. And this will put it into perspective... the two best guys of his era HE BEAT THEM when they were not old and they were on even playing fields, i.e. they fought each other when they were at similar peaks. Can't say the same for Mayweather... 

Besides having TWO ATG's ,a old ATG who is no lesser a win than old Mosley (look at who McCallum LOSS too at the time and look how he performed in his last fight against Toney coming off the loss to Jones, look at how Mosley looked coming off the loss to Mayweather) in their prime/close to peak on his win list, he also be a lot of top guys who after him went on to become world champs themselves, or already were champs. And he went up to heavy, after starting his career at 154, to beat a legit titlist in Ruiz who outweighed him by some 20's.

And Hill is a boarderline HoF'er. This is no hater post, Mayweather is a great fighter and is H2H quite a formidable foe... but honestly, if I am being real, RJJ takes it for sure. Mayweather not fighting Pac in his prime, hurts him.


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## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

I'd say Floyd. Solidly.

And prime Jones is my favorite fighter


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> In both lists, exactly. That's why I could care less who is in the hall of fame as long as the worthy people are inducted, you said yourself both lists are shit so why give fighters a gold star for something so arbitrary :lol:


Couldn't care less*

Because I think it's funny the fact that boxing fans would say "Oh WBHOF sucks, you're desperate". Man, please, that's like arguing about Micky D's and Burger King. I labeled the fighters according to whatever accomplishment they have gotten, or can potentially get. In boxing, being inducted in to the HOF is an accomplishment, so I had to highlight that while listing Mayweather's and Jones resume.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

megavolt said:


> I'd say Floyd. Solidly.
> 
> And prime Jones is my favorite fighter


And Roy Jones is my favorite fighter of all time, followed by Jermain Taylor. Floyd is my third, i'm being as objective as possible comparing their resumes and accomplishments. Floyd is greater, Roy beats Floyd prime vs prime.


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

megavolt said:


> I'd say Floyd. Solidly.
> 
> And prime Jones is my favorite fighter


Who on Mayweathers wins list is a better win than Toney or Hopkins? Hell Roy's KO of Hill is better than most of the wins on Mayweather's list. Is it old Mosley, who is akin to a old McCallum, actually McCallum did better in his losing effort against Toney than Mosley did in his fights after Mayweather with elite guys.

No disrespect to mayweather.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> Who on Mayweathers wins list is a better win than Toney or Hopkins? Hell Roy's KO of Hill is better than most of the wins on Mayweather's list. Is it old Mosley, who is akin to a old McCallum, actually McCallum did better in his losing effort against Toney than Mosley did in his fights after Mayweather with elite guys.
> 
> No disrespect to mayweather.


and McCallum >>>>>>> Mosley


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> Couldn't care less*
> 
> Because I think it's funny the fact that boxing fans would say "Oh WBHOF sucks, you're desperate". Man, please, that's like arguing about Micky D's and Burger King. I labeled the fighters according to whatever accomplishment they have gotten, or can potentially get. In boxing, being inducted in to the HOF is an accomplishment, so I had to highlight that while listing Mayweather's and Jones resume.


Yet you give Hatton, Cotto and Castillo passes into the Hall yet nothing for Toney?

It's clear you were only looking to highlight one fighter's resume. It's all good, but if this is you "being objective as possible".......


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> And Roy Jones is my favorite fighter of all time, followed by Jermain Taylor. Floyd is my third, i'm being as objective as possible comparing their resumes and accomplishments. Floyd is greater, Roy beats Floyd prime vs prime.


Based on longevity or based on resume? If Saul ends up becoming the goods, then this is a different story. But I would like to see, how this is justified. If you are going by longevity, I could see that, but the best guy of his error he never fought.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

the cobra said:


> Still Roy.
> 
> Things are getting pretty damn close though.


Please start posting more where the hell you been?


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> Based on longevity or based on resume? If Saul ends up becoming the goods, then this is a different story. But I would like to see, how this is justified. If you are going by longevity, I could see that, but the best guy of his error he never fought.


The 2 year retirement hurt Floyd.


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## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> Who on Mayweathers wins list is a better win than Toney or Hopkins? Hell Roy's KO of Hill is better than most of the wins on Mayweather's list. Is it old Mosley, who is akin to a old McCallum, actually McCallum did better in his losing effort against Toney than Mosley did in his fights after Mayweather with elite guys.
> 
> No disrespect to mayweather.


As much as I hate to say it- Toney was drained (as in, hooked up to an iv overnight like DLH drained), Hopkins green. a 2002 fight wouldve been sublime but we know how that went


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

megavolt said:


> As much as I hate to say it- Toney was drained (as in, hooked up to an iv overnight like DLH drained), Hopkins green. a 2002 fight wouldve been sublime


Blame Toney not Roy. Toney could've KO'd Roy and he'd still have some lame excuse.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Yet you give Hatton, Cotto and Castillo passes into the Hall yet nothing for Toney?
> 
> It's clear you were only looking to highlight one fighter's resume. It's all good, but if this is you "being objective as possible".......


I put 3 clear question marks next to Hatton.

I also clearly said who I think will be inducted in the HOF. Knowing how inconsistent the IBHOF is, I can actually see how Toney doesn't get in but Gatti and Hill did, and I could see how Castillo and Cotto could get in. I am not judging who is a HOF'er or who isn't. I am going by who the writers will probably deem worthy of a HOF'er.

I thought it was ridiculous, absolutely abusive, how the FOTD of 2000-2009 was given to Manny Pacquiao. That is just insane and unbelievable, but then you look at the writers/journalists who voted him in, and then you're like "Oh, I get it". The IBHOF, the BWAA, whatever, it's all favoritism in the end.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> I put 3 clear question marks next to Hatton.
> 
> I also clearly said who I think will be inducted in the HOF. Knowing how inconsistent the IBHOF is, I can actually see how Toney doesn't get in but Gatti and Hill did, and I could see how Castillo and Cotto could get in. I am not judging who is a HOF'er or who isn't. I am going by who the writers will probably deem worthy of a HOF'er.
> 
> I thought it was ridiculous, absolutely abusive, how the FOTD of 2000-2009 was given to Manny Pacquiao. That is just insane and unbelievable, but then you look at the writers/journalists who voted him in, and then you're like "Oh, I get it". The IBHOF, the BWAA, whatever, it's all favoritism in the end.


I thought Pac deserved it. Morales, Barrera, Marquez, Lehdwaba, Hatton, Delahoya, Cotto, Larios....c'mon, that's an epic resume. And since you love Hall of famers he beat about 6 of them very badly.

No one did more through more weight classes.


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## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Blame Toney not Roy. Toney could've KO'd Roy and he'd still have some lame excuse.


We're discussing among the elite ATG spots here, so you gotta be much more nitpicky about their achievements; whether it be their fault or not the opponent in front of them is the benchmark of their greatness-


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

megavolt said:


> We're discussing among the elite ATG spots here, so you gotta be much more nitpicky about their achievements; whether it be their fault or not the opponent in front of them is the benchmark of their greatness-


So when was Toney getting IV'd?


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## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

For what its worth, Corrales was not as highly rated as Toney, but the win over him was almost as squeaky clean as you can get, although in the lead up to the fight there were some instances where Corrales complained of making weight


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## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> So when was Toney getting IV'd?


the night before the fight, post weigh in. at least that's what I've read


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## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

Vic said:


> discuss.


I pick RJJ as the better, china chin and all.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

megavolt said:


> the night before the fight, post weigh in. at least that's what I've read


Literally the only place I've read this from and google'd it is you like 3 years ago on EESB :lol:


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## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Literally the only place I've read this from and google'd it is you like 3 years ago on EESB :lol:


are you for real :rofl

i swear I've read it somewhere i'll check it out

edit:

google: james toney jones drained "hooked up"

with the quotations- it forces those 2 words to be linked


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Spam I guess? @Bogotazo


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Great article on Jones/Toney



> Roy Jones Jr. did himself no favor with his calculated domination of James Toney last Friday night. He was terrific, all right. Actually, he was too terrific for his own good. Watching Jones so thoroughly befuddle the guy thought to be the next Marvin Hagler, we had to wonder who will pay to see Jones in the ring with, say, Chris Eubank. Or with anyone. Poor Jones-he means well, but he fights himself out of every division he enters.
> 
> There is nothing left for him to do but fight exhibitions, which is what the bout for Toney's IBF super middleweight title in Las Vegas so entirely resembled. It wasn't a boxing match in the ordinary sense; it was a solo act, a one-man show, with the champion reduced to the role of stagehand. Toney, whose reputation for ring terror had established him as boxing's new force, was mostly incidental to this performance.
> 
> ...


Kind of like the position Mayweather is in now.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Spam I guess? @Bogotazo


Got em. Thank you.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> I thought Pac deserved it. Morales, Barrera, Marquez, Lehdwaba, Hatton, Delahoya, Cotto, Larios....c'mon, that's an epic resume. And since you love Hall of famers he beat about 6 of them very badly.
> 
> No one did more through more weight classes.


And yet Mayweather beat 3 of those guys in the same span, two in better shape/younger(DLH, Hatton), beat Marquez handily, wins against Castillo 2x, Corrales, Gatti, Judah, Baldomir, C. Hernandez, Chavez, Corley. No losses, no trilogies. Pacquiao fought to a Draw with Marquez, majority of media/fans had him losing the Marquez rematch, lost to peak Morales, then beat a past it Morales after he came off the Raheem fight.

Sorry, but the true FOTD was Floyd Mayweather Jr. The writers association did everything in their power to not give the award to the "boring" feather-fisted Floyd. Pacquiao got it simply because he was more exciting and got more KO's, that's it, it's called favoritism of styles. The true best fighter of 2000-2009 was Floyd Mayweather. And he still continues to be the best fighter from 2010-2013, he will most likely be the best up to 2015. Floyd can fight the kind of top 3 opposition he's fighting now, until 2019, and stay winning and undefeated, and still not get FOTD of 2010-2019, because of the way he beats them, which is a "Boring UD" and not exciting, which is unfair.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> And yet Mayweather beat 3 of those guys in the same span, two in better shape/younger(DLH, Hatton), beat Marquez handily, wins against Castillo 2x, Corrales, Gatti, Judah, Baldomir, C. Hernandez, Chavez, Corley. No losses, no trilogies. Pacquiao fought to a Draw with Marquez, majority of media/fans had him losing the Marquez rematch, lost to peak Morales, then beat a past it Morales after he came off the Raheem fight.
> 
> Sorry, but the true FOTD was Floyd Mayweather Jr. The writers association did everything in their power to not give the award to the "boring" feather-fisted Floyd. Pacquiao got it simply because he was more exciting and got more KO's, that's it, it's called favoritism of styles. The true best fighter of 2000-2009 was Floyd Mayweather. And he still continues to be the best fighter from 2010-2013, he will most likely be the best up to 2015. Floyd can fight the kind of top 3 opposition he's fighting now, until 2019, and stay winning and undefeated, and still not get FOTD of 2010-2019, because of the way he beats them, which is a "Boring UD" and not exciting, which is unfair.


Barrera and Marquez were still better though. Blame Mayweather and he could've had the closer to prime Cotto.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> Hopkins being green, is a laughable excuse to him being clearly beat in his physical prime. Hopkins was primed far before Trinidad fight. I'd say his prime began around 95. People say well he loss a fight after Jones, so did Toney. Most fighters when they loss their first big fight, sometimes lose their next... Hopkins have a better excuse then most, as his performance again SM was due to the altitude he was fighting at, in the rematch he removed all doubt how better he was. It's a poor excuse, to me Hopkins was in his physical prime and he had skills. Craft comes with age, for instance, SRL was more crafty in the fight with Hagler than he was in his fight with Duran.. Duran got into his head among other things, which is a thing that wouldve never happened to a older SRL. Does this mean SRL wasn't prime when he fought Duran?? All because a fighter learns more tricks doesnt mean they weren't prime before. Toney vs Nunn is not more crafty then Toney vs Jirov... this can go on and on. Most people who say Hopkins was green at 28 years old, after having been a pro for 5 years have never seen his fights before RJJ and probably a little after it, they only know Hopkins past 2001, as this was when the media realized how good he was because he beat Trinidad.


It's not a laughable excuse. Like Mayweather, Hopkins was actually prime during a later age i.e 2000+. Mayweather although not in his physical prime like he was at 130lbs, he's BETTER as a fighter now. For Hopkins, something like experience is a key element to him as a fighter.


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## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

As good as Jones was, he has alot of very bad losses. (Regardless of when they occurred, they are on his record and that does affect his standings as an ATG)


Good offence vs generally average opposition is not that impressive. 


Toney, is an excellent win (although he struggled badly with the weight, was his own fault though not Jones), 

and Hopkins was a good one as well, although Hopkins wasnt the same fighter back then.


Jones had a fan friendly fighting style but never did enough to fully cement his legacy before he decided to rip it apart by spending the "second half" rolling around on the canvas.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

oibighead said:


> As good as Jones was, he has alot of very bad losses. (Regardless of when they occurred, they are on his record and that does affect his standings as an ATG)
> 
> Good offence vs generally average opposition is not that impressive.
> 
> ...


IMO Roy Jones can lose 100 fights in a row from now on, it won't affect his standing whatsoever. His legacy is already set and he knows that.


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## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> IMO Roy Jones can lose 100 fights in a row from now on, it won't affect his standing whatsoever. His legacy is already set and he knows that.


Disagree, but its subjective obviously.

Skill wise, he is one of the best offensively of all time.

Legacy wise, you cant disregard 10 years of straight awful just because he had 10 good years prior. Half his career he was great, the other half terrible.


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> It's not a laughable excuse. Like Mayweather, Hopkins was actually prime during a later age i.e 2000+. Mayweather although not in his physical prime like he was at 130lbs, he's BETTER as a fighter now. For Hopkins, something like experience is a key element to him as a fighter.


No completely and utterly disagree. Hopkins was prime staring at 95. Period. Anyone who thinks his prime started at 2000++, I have to say, respectfully, DKSAB. Most of his MW title defensive happened before that time, when he was KOing LEGIT MW's. I mean for sucks sake, one win that has become big for him, is Glen Johnson who he fought in 97, it is a win that age well considering how masterful that performance was. Hopkins was in his physical prime when he fought RJJ, had been a professional for 5 years, and was 28 years old. Of course he got better -- so did RJJ, as one can say he was not prime at 160. So both were close to peak, if you want to go at it from this perspective. Needless to say his defeat of Hop's has aged rather well considering what Hops accomplished. The 2000+ were the tail end of his prime, he loss to Taylor in 2005 for Godsakes LOL, he wouldve KO'd Taylor back in 97. Hopkins come out party into the big leagues shouldve been years before Trinidad, but thats how it goes, if you are not flashy, you have to beat a guy that is a the flavor of the month to be recognized.

All because the media recognized Hopkins after he beat Tito doesn't mean his prime came in around that period, no. My God just watch the Johnson fight from 97, hell even the Segundo Mercado rematch from 95 if you'd like. You try to tell me that hopkins is not prime in the Johnson, come up with a real good argument. And you tell me if that Hopkins doesn't KO Taylor.

Hopkins was in his physical prime in 93, he had the majority of the skills he would have, just he never fought a guy like RJJ before. He was just lacking more experience. His loss to Jones didn't have anything to do with it though, he would always lose to Jones, its just a style doesnt compliment his well. Just like he would always struggle with Calzaghe, fast handed dynamic fighters who fight in a broken rhythm will always give his fits. I will agree though a fight in 2002 wouldve been great, but by that time RJJ was on the decline, although close to prime. RJJ prime started at SMW -- 94-95ish - 2001... after that he was on a decline, although he would have been close to peak then and that was enough to beat hopkins.


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## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

oibighead said:


> Disagree, but its subjective obviously.
> 
> Skill wise, he is one of the best offensively of all time.
> 
> Legacy wise, you cant disregard 10 years of straight awful just because he had 10 good years prior. Half his career he was great, the other half terrible.


I disagree. Losing in your prime is taken into consideration but losing regardless to who it is does not 'delete' the good wins a boxer had.

Does Jones losing to Lebedev mean he didn't beat Toney/Hopkins?
Does Toney losing to Lebedev mean he didn't beat Nunn/McCallum?

Of course not! Achievements still stand. Beating great fighters is and always will be FAR more important than losses or longevity etc


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Floyd is greater than Roy. He's accomplished more and done it all whilst remaining undefeated. Why do people insist on ignoring losses in these arguments? 

Floyd will rank higher on ATG lists when he retires and that's all that really matters.


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

TFG said:


> Floyd is greater than Roy. He's accomplished more and done it all whilst remaining undefeated. Why do people insist on ignoring losses in these arguments?
> 
> Floyd will rank higher on ATG lists when he retires and that's all that really matters.


Well... I think longevity comes into play here, Mayweather has him beat on that department for sure. I just think RJJ has the better wins in his prime. But I can understand an argument for Mayweather.

I wouldnt say he accomplished more, unless you are reducing RJJ achievements severely. The only thing Mayweather has on RJJ is longevity, Mayweather didnt fall from grace yet and still has his "O". Right now mayweather very well could come to best RJJ, depending on who he beats. But to say he accomplished more, I'd like to hear the argument.


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> IMO Roy Jones can lose 100 fights in a row from now on, it won't affect his standing whatsoever. His legacy is already set and he knows that.


Agreed.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> No completely and utterly disagree. Hopkins was prime staring at 95. Period. Anyone who thinks his prime started at 2000++, I have to say, respectfully, DKSAB. Most of his MW title defensive happened before that time, when he was KOing LEGIT MW's. I mean for sucks sake, one win that has become big for him, is Glen Johnson who he fought in 97, it is a win that age well considering how masterful that performance was. Hopkins was in his physical prime when he fought RJJ, had been a professional for 5 years, and was 28 years old. Of course he got better -- so did RJJ, as one can say he was not prime at 160. So both were close to peak, if you want to go at it from this perspective. Needless to say his defeat of Hop's has aged rather well considering what Hops accomplished. The 2000+ were the tail end of his prime, he loss to Taylor in 2005 for Godsakes LOL, he wouldve KO'd Taylor back in 97. Hopkins come out party into the big leagues shouldve been years before Trinidad, but thats how it goes, if you are not flashy, you have to beat a guy that is a the flavor of the month to be recognized.
> 
> All because the media recognized Hopkins after he beat Tito doesn't mean his prime came in around that period, no. My God just watch the Johnson fight from 97, hell even the Segundo Mercado rematch from 95 if you'd like. You try to tell me that hopkins is not prime in the Johnson, come up with a real good argument. And you tell me if that Hopkins doesn't KO Taylor.
> 
> Hopkins was in his physical prime in 93, he had the majority of the skills he would have, just he never fought a guy like RJJ before. He was just lacking more experience. His loss to Jones didn't have anything to do with it though, he would always lose to Jones, its just a style doesnt compliment his well. Just like he would always struggle with Calzaghe, fast handed dynamic fighters who fight in a broken rhythm will always give his fits. I will agree though a fight in 2002 wouldve been great, but by that time RJJ was on the decline, although close to prime. RJJ prime started at SMW -- 94-95ish - 2001... after that he was on a decline, although he would have been close to peak then and that was enough to beat hopkins.


Well very late 90's. Yeah but they were shit opponents and Hopkins is not the type of fighter that would be his best when younger. I'm not talking about physical prime I'm talking about how good he actually was as a fighter.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

The Superman existed, and his name was Roy Jones Jr


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## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

Hoshi said:


> I disagree. Losing in your prime is taken into consideration but losing regardless to who it is does not 'delete' the good wins a boxer had.
> 
> Does Jones losing to Lebedev mean he didn't beat Toney/Hopkins?
> Does Toney losing to Lebedev mean he didn't beat Nunn/McCallum?
> ...


Think you should re-read what I wrote as you are replying to points I didnt make/


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

oibighead said:


> As good as Jones was, he has alot of very bad losses. (Regardless of when they occurred, they are on his record and that does affect his standings as an ATG)
> 
> Good offence vs generally average opposition is not that impressive.
> 
> ...


whats the second half of his career, do tell?


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> The Superman existed, and his name was Roy Jones Jr


:deal


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## gyllespie (Jun 17, 2013)

When Roy moved out of his prime and faced adversity he couldn't find ways to adjust. He struggled with Tarver the first time and performed even worse in the rematch. When he suffered a cut from the Calzaghe fight he wilted, seemingly became mentally destroyed. Once his speed and power declined he became powerless. Floyd has moved out of his prime and has remained dominant if not become an even better boxer because he's able to rely more on timing and ring IQ since he isn't as fast as he once was. An out of prime Roy gets knocked out when he gets hurt. Floyd, at any stage of his career, has gotten stronger when he faces adversity.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

gyllespie said:


> *When Roy moved out of his prime and faced adversity he couldn't find ways to adjust. *He struggled with Tarver the first time and performed even worse in the rematch. When he suffered a cut from the Calzaghe fight he wilted, seemingly became mentally destroyed. Once his speed and power declined he became powerless. Floyd has moved out of his prime and has remained dominant if not become an even better boxer because he's able to rely more on timing and ring IQ since he isn't as fast as he once was. An out of prime Roy gets knocked out when he gets hurt. Floyd, at any stage of his career, has gotten stronger when he faces adversity.


What the hell does that even mean?

*He beat Tarver* after winning a heavyweight title. Name me one other fighter who jumped 3 weights, won a title, moved back down and won their crown back the next fight.


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## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

God Jones > $ Mayweather


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

I'm a fan of both but RJJ is a level above athletically and about 10 times the puncher, I mean just think:

If RJJ was the same size as FMJ how would he do against:

JLC
DLH
Hatton
Judah
Cotto

If FMJ was the same size as RJJ, how would he do against:

Toney
Hopkins
Hill
Harding
Ruiz
Malinga

RJJ would outright look better, stopping most of Mayweather's opponents without dropping rounds. Mayweather would beat most of RJJ's opponents but he wouldn't shut out Toney or win 10-2 against BHOPs, or take out Hill or Malinga.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> What the hell does that even mean?
> 
> *He beat Tarver* after winning a heavyweight title. Name me one other fighter who jumped 3 weights, won a title, moved back down and won their crown back the next fight.


Fitzsimmons comes close.
Lost to Jeffries by 11th round KO (Fair to assume he was better than Ruiz) 
4 fights later Fitzsimmons won the lhw title at a 170 pound catchweight.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

dyna said:


> Fitzsimmons comes close.
> Lost to Jeffries by 11th round KO (Fair to assume he was better than Ruiz)
> 4 fights later Fitzsimmons won the lhw title at a 170 pound catchweight.


If only this were horse shoes.


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## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

Mayweather is the greater fighter.

These are two of the greatest athletes sport has ever witnessed, though I'd give the edge to Jones in his prime, they were both (Mayweather still is) incredible specimens. You could argue that both fighters at their peaks in their best divisions were unbeatable.

Jones holds the best win in Toney, and some other good ones including Hopkins and win over a Heavyweight in Ruiz. But Mayweather now has an accumulation of significant wins which Jones just can't match; Hernandez, Corrales, Castillo x2, Gatti, Judah, De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez, Mosley, Cotto, Guerrero, Alvarez. That's 15 years of shutting out very good and in some cases great fighters.

The longevity of Mayweather is important too. Once Jones lost his athletic edge; he started to lose and by knockout. Mayweather in my opinion started gradually, very gradually losing his super-human athleticism after the Hatton fight, the decline has been minimal to be fair but a decline nonetheless. Now the difference is that Mayweather has shown the innate ability to adapt - not just to his opponents style of fighting - but the way he fights and his lifestyle in general. Over the years Floyd has been in some tough fights and shown that he isn't just a flashy slickster who doesn't like to fight but that he's a champion that can take it on the chin and rumble with the best of them on the inside or outside. 

So for me, Mayweather is the more complete fighter, and edges Jones in just about every department.


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## gyllespie (Jun 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> What the hell does that even mean?
> 
> *He beat Tarver* after winning a heavyweight title. Name me one other fighter who jumped 3 weights, won a title, moved back down and won their crown back the next fight.


It means he couldn't find ways to adjust in order to overcome adversity. He didn't have a second gear. He always fought with just one plan which was to blitz through his opponent with freakish speed and power. I have no idea why RJJ fans admire his win over Ruiz so much. It is a nice accomplishment but damn, you guys make it sound like he beat a Klitschko (no way Roy would've fought either one at the time). Also, I never said he lost to Tarver in the first match. I said he struggled and then got KTFO in the rematch. And then lost again in a rubber match. Mayweather struggled with Castillo and came back stronger by achieving a convincing win in their rematch. Both are ATGs though. I just feel Floyd is clearly the better fighter when you fully consider the sweet science.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

gyllespie said:


> It means he couldn't find ways to adjust in order to overcome adversity. He didn't have a second gear. He always fought with just one plan which was to blitz through his opponent with freakish speed and power. I have no idea why RJJ fans admire his win over Ruiz so much. It is a nice accomplishment but damn, you guys make it sound like he beat a Klitschko (no way Roy would've fought either one at the time). Also, I never said he lost to Tarver in the first match. I said he struggled and then got KTFO in the rematch. And then lost again in a rubber match. Mayweather struggled with Castillo and came back stronger by achieving a convincing win in their rematch. Both are ATGs though. I just feel Floyd is clearly the better fighter when you fully consider the sweet science.


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

gyllespie said:


> It means he couldn't find ways to adjust in order to overcome adversity. He didn't have a second gear. He always fought with just one plan which was to blitz through his opponent with freakish speed and power. I have no idea why RJJ fans admire his win over Ruiz so much. It is a nice accomplishment but damn, you guys make it sound like he beat a Klitschko (no way Roy would've fought either one at the time). Also, I never said he lost to Tarver in the first match. I said he struggled and then got KTFO in the rematch. And then lost again in a rubber match. Mayweather struggled with Castillo and came back stronger by achieving a convincing win in their rematch. Both are ATGs though. I just feel Floyd is clearly the better fighter when you fully consider the sweet science.


O god, I doubt you have seen many of RJJ fights. It's sad that guys like you talk about RJJ as if he was skilled or didn't have a great boxing mind. Watch his fight with Harding, and see how he adapted against a person with a style and size which gave him trouble... look at his fight against Hill, and how he adapted. He had a second gear, is it his fault for being too damn good for most guys? Any time a guy showed him a different look while he was in his prime, he was able to overcome it. You're acting like he was 1 dimensional or something..

RJJ could lead with the jab, lead with a left hook, lead with a right hand, lead with a body shot, fight off the ropes well, etc. When he fought he could use later movement, he could fight on the back-foot, he could lead, he could counter punch, etc. It's just if you are comparing all this to mayweather, Mayweather could do the similar things had an edge on a certain type of defense, as RJJ defense was nearly solely based on his foot movement and reflexes. But Mayweather had good reflexes too in his prime. RJJ problem was that, unlike mayweather who adapted to his physical decline and stopped leading with hooks from outside, RJJ never adapted, and Tarver was able to catch him, when he through with him with a straight punch. Mayweather tried to do something like that with shane mosley and almost got KD.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Floyd. He came out dominating and he is still dominating.


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## charlie harper (May 18, 2013)

Close but I like Mayweather by a bit .


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## KWilson71 (Jun 8, 2013)

I picked Floyd and honestly didnt think twice about it. But depends on what you value more, a deep resume or the big wins. Floyd's longevity gives him the edge imo.


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## the cobra (Jun 6, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Please start posting more where the hell you been?


I been doing things n' such. :toney1

I will though, turbo, I will..._for you._acman

:hatton


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Floyd got more big names. I mean last time i checked in here that more "big names" = higher ATG ranking 

But in more serious note..... my imo
Floyd got a lot more names on his resume
more lb4lbers
Undefeated
Never lost to someone lesser than him
Longevity
More skilled


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## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> whats the second half of his career, do tell?


The second decade of his career obviously.


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## Boxing Fanatic (Jun 5, 2013)

roy has beat guys floyd tries to avoid like hopkins and toney when they were still good. and he dominated them


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## Blanco (Aug 29, 2012)

Floyd had a better career probably but at their best Roy was just a notch above Floyd, thing is though that sometimes I feel watching back on Roy's past fights during his p4p #1 reign that he would purposely not go all out on his opposition cause he knew how much better he was than everybody he fought.


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## Bill Butcher (Aug 27, 2013)

I`m not sure who is greater, both have been just as dominant and both could have did a bit more with their talent, especially from a fans perspective.

I do think Mayweather was/is the _better _boxer though, just my opinion.


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## charlie harper (May 18, 2013)

Roy has the best two wins (Toney).

Mayweather had more A wins and a better overall career. 

For me, it's Mayweather by a bit.


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## Bill Butcher (Aug 27, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> And yet Mayweather beat 3 of those guys in the same span, two in better shape/younger(DLH, Hatton), beat Marquez handily, wins against Castillo 2x, Corrales, Gatti, Judah, Baldomir, C. Hernandez, Chavez, Corley. No losses, no trilogies. Pacquiao fought to a Draw with Marquez, majority of media/fans had him losing the Marquez rematch, lost to peak Morales, then beat a past it Morales after he came off the Raheem fight.
> 
> Sorry, but the true FOTD was Floyd Mayweather Jr. The writers association did everything in their power to not give the award to the "boring" feather-fisted Floyd. Pacquiao got it simply because he was more exciting and got more KO's, that's it, it's called favoritism of styles. The true best fighter of 2000-2009 was Floyd Mayweather. And he still continues to be the best fighter from 2010-2013, he will most likely be the best up to 2015. Floyd can fight the kind of top 3 opposition he's fighting now, until 2019, and stay winning and undefeated, and still not get FOTD of 2010-2019, because of the way he beats them, which is a "Boring UD" and not exciting, which is unfair.


Mayweather fucked himself by retiring for 18 months and handing the p4p no1 spot to Pacquiao, he always has been a better fighter than Pacquiao, a blind man can see that, but his behaviour was unacceptable and he deservedly paid the price by losing out on the FOTD award.

If Floyd never retired after the Hatton fight, Pacquiao would never have overtook him. Floyd gave Manny the FOTD award as much as Pac winning it with his excellent wins and fights. Floyd never cared enough about his legacy to stay in the game and earn the award, if he wasn't bothered enough to put in the time to seal the deal then why are fans even trying to argue for him ? Mayweather is the better fighter but Pac deserved the award, the end.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Skill pays the bills.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Jones's very best wins are Toney, Hopkins, Ruiz. Then comes Tarver, Hill, Griffin, McCallum. Then Woods, Kelly, Del Valle, Reggie Johnson.

Floyd has depth more spread out. De La Hoya, Hatton, Castillo, Corrales, Cotto are his strongest wins. After that is a long list of quality champions and contenders. Canelo, Mosley, Hernandez, Augustus, Chavez, Judah, Ortiz, Guerrero.

Personally I give a lot of weight to truly ATG wins and RJJ's take the cake, with a solid list of names to substantiate his greatness beyond those wins.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Jones's very best wins are Toney, Hopkins, Ruiz. Then comes Tarver, Hill, Griffin, McCallum. Then Woods, Kelly, Del Valle, Reggie Johnson.
> 
> Floyd has depth more spread out. De La Hoya, Hatton, Castillo, Corrales, Cotto are his strongest wins. After that is a long list of quality champions and contenders. Canelo, Mosley, Hernandez, Augustus, Chavez, Judah, Ortiz, Guerrero.
> 
> Personally I give a lot of weight to truly ATG wins and RJJ's take the cake, with a solid list of names to substantiate his greatness beyond those wins.


You forgot JMM!


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Jones's very best wins are Toney, Hopkins, Ruiz. Then comes Tarver, Hill, Griffin, McCallum. Then Woods, Kelly, Del Valle, Reggie Johnson.
> 
> Floyd has depth more spread out. De La Hoya, Hatton, Castillo, Corrales, Cotto are his strongest wins. After that is a long list of quality champions and contenders. Canelo, Mosley, Hernandez, Augustus, Chavez, Judah, Ortiz, Guerrero.
> 
> Personally I give a lot of weight to truly ATG wins and RJJ's take the cake, with a solid list of names to substantiate his greatness beyond those wins.


We prolly going to collide heads on this but i think when Jones beat Bhop which imo is not nearly as good as he evolved later... is at this same level with Canelo.


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## Blanco (Aug 29, 2012)

"Roy Jones is the hardest fighter to fight cause he's hard to hit and hits hard"

classic one liner by Larry Merchant


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> We prolly going to collide heads on this but i think when Jones beat Bhop which imo is not nearly as good as he evolved later... is at this same level with Canelo.


He wasn't what he would later become but BHop had the better fundamentals and was a very, very crafty fighter at that point. 
The fight before:






We simply have yet to see what Canelo will amount to. I'm worried about that actually.

But I do get your point.



tliang1000 said:


> You forgot JMM!


Damn I knew there was a name missing, must have been a subconscious deletion.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> He wasn't what he would later become but BHop had the better fundamentals and was a very, very crafty fighter at that point.
> The fight before:
> 
> 
> ...


From my Pov, i think he'll wreck everyone at 154, not sure about 160 with he would definitely go in the future.

And really you can throw gatti in one of his good wins too.. propelled him into a ppv star and as much crap people give Gatti about his skills, he is a accomplished fighter.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> From my Pov, i think he'll wreck everyone at 154, not sure about 160 with he would definitely go in the future.
> 
> And really you can throw gatti in one of his good wins too.. propelled him into a ppv star and as much crap people give Gatti about his skills, he is a accomplished fighter.


The Gatti win is on part with the Pazienza win IMO. Not great but not bad.

Canelo I think is really vulnerable at 154. He earned his ranking after the Trout win, but there are a number of fighters I think beat him. Lara is too skilled and consistent and fast, Angulo is too relentless, and Kirkland might even find him and chase him down once he hurt him. Not to mention it's not certain he beats Cotto.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> The Gatti win is on part with the Pazienza win IMO. Not great but not bad.
> 
> Canelo I think is really vulnerable at 154. He earned his ranking after the Trout win, but there are a number of fighters I think beat him. Lara is too skilled and consistent and fast, Angulo is too relentless, and Kirkland might even find him and chase him down once he hurt him. Not to mention it's not certain he beats Cotto.


I think Lara have the best chance to beat him out of the four you listed.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> I think Lara have the best chance to beat him out of the four you listed.


Agreed. The most equipped.


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## Blanco (Aug 29, 2012)

I feel Canelo beats everybody at 154 outside of Money, we'll see how Martirosyan and Andrade develop as fighters, they both have the size to cause Canelo some serious problems though.


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Jones's very best wins are Toney, Hopkins, Ruiz. Then comes Tarver, Hill, Griffin, McCallum. Then Woods, Kelly, Del Valle, Reggie Johnson.
> 
> Floyd has depth more spread out. De La Hoya, Hatton, Castillo, Corrales, Cotto are his strongest wins. After that is a long list of quality champions and contenders. Canelo, Mosley, Hernandez, Augustus, Chavez, Judah, Ortiz, Guerrero.
> 
> Personally I give a lot of weight to truly ATG wins and RJJ's take the cake, with a solid list of names to substantiate his greatness beyond those wins.


Some of those Mayweather victories are on par with with some of the guys RJJ fought that arent getting mentioned... like Jorge Castro ( who is actually a better win than Kelly, Del Valle... Merqui Sosa, Julio Gonzales...

Reggie Johnson is a better win than that, he was levels above Kelly, Del Valle, and Woods... he was one of the guys that HBO was pushing RJJ to fight, as a guy who would give him challenges.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> Some of those Mayweather victories are on par with with some of the guys RJJ fought that arent getting mentioned... like Jorge Castro ( who is actually a better win than Kelly, Del Valle... Merqui Sosa, Julio Gonzales...
> 
> Reggie Johnson is a better win than that, he was levels above Kelly, Del Valle, and Woods... he was one of the guys that HBO was pushing RJJ to fight, as a guy who would give him challenges.


As soon as I put him in the last bracket I knew I should have move him up.

Again, Mayweather has plenty of depth. Corley, N'Dou as well could compete with some of RJJ's.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

What about the Druken master Augustus? He gets robbed constantly but i don't think anyone likes to fight him in his prime.


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> As soon as I put him in the last bracket I knew I should have move him up.
> 
> Again, Mayweather has plenty of depth. Corley, N'Dou as well could compete with some of RJJ's.


Corley is a good shout, also Carlos Hernandez. I was just trying to even it, not to mention every guy in ones resumes... I'm a mayweather fan as well as a RJJ fan, but I try to be objective. Both Mayweather and Jones couldve achieved more, but Jones beat the two best guys of his era before they were old... the same can not be said of Mayweather, and that is just a fact that can't be downplayed.


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> What about the Druken master Augustus? He gets robbed constantly but i don't think anyone likes to fight him in his prime.


Micky Ward.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> This is a hard one. It can be argued that Mayweather > Roy Jones in terms of H2H..they're really even. It's all down to simple opinion.
> Roy looked more *impressive* on film IMO but Mayweather is RJJ's equal H2H IMO.
> 
> I'm not much of a fan of Roy Jones' opposition honestly.
> ...


it is hard to compare resumes. Recently Floyd has added to his resume with Mosley,Delahoya,Cotto and Canelo. Jones fought Hopkins,Toney,Hill and McCallum. Those are his great fighters on his resume. It is Mosley,Delahoya and Marquez vs. Hopkins,Toney,Hill and McCallum. If all were prime I would say Roy beats Floyd unless Floyd had Pacman on his resume. I picked Floyd in the poll yet after looking at the resume maybe I should have picked Jones. Floyd has gotten better and has great fundamental skills over Roy, which is why he is fighting better at the end of his career and using experience in a way Roy never did.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> Corley is a good shout, also Carlos Hernandez. I was just trying to even it, not to mention every guy in ones resumes... I'm a mayweather fan as well as a RJJ fan, but I try to be objective. Both Mayweather and Jones couldve achieved more, but Jones beat the two best guys of his era before they were old... the same can not be said of Mayweather, and that is just a fact that can't be downplayed.


Agreed, I mean you could pull underrated guys from each list, though Floyd will have more. But as you said, RJJ dominated, not just beat but dominated, two ATG's in their physical prime. He distinguished himself in his own era in a way Floyd never did.


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## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Agreed, I mean you could pull underrated guys from each list, though Floyd will have more. But as you said, RJJ dominated, not just beat but dominated, two ATG's in their physical prime. He distinguished himself in his own era in a way Floyd never did.


which imo floyd could've probably outdone had he beat pac back in 2010.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Agreed, I mean you could pull underrated guys from each list, though Floyd will have more. But as you said, RJJ dominated, not just beat but dominated, two ATG's in their physical prime. He distinguished himself in his own era in a way Floyd never did.


Well they were not ATG greats at the time. 
JMM can be considered as semi-in prime and future ATG
Canelo could possbily live up to the hype and have a dominating career.

To me Floyd hands down got this... He got a lot more big names. Plus he lost to no one and still going strong. Losses diminishes a resume as well.


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## Sister Sledge (Oct 22, 2012)

As good as Roy was, he was always a flawed fighter. I always though an elite, or close to elite boxer could beat him because he made a lot of mistakes, but the fact that he fought no-hopers always bailed him out. Mayweather just has a better skillset. Jones' resume doesn't compare to Floyds. Roy ducked the best fighters in multiple multiple weight classes. The win over Hopkins doesn't really mean much because B-Hop wasn't a great fighter at the time, while Roy already was. Also, we all know that Toney wasn't cloase to being at the top of his game when he fought Roy. That wasn't RJJ's fault, though.


So Sayeth the Sister, So Sayeth the Sledge.


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## Sister Sledge (Oct 22, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Agreed, I mean you could pull underrated guys from each list, though Floyd will have more. But as you said, RJJ dominated, not just beat but dominated, two ATG's in their physical prime. He distinguished himself in his own era in a way Floyd never did.


B-Hop was not an ATG at the time. Did you see how much he struggled with Bercado and barely got a draw? He barely had amature experience, and basically was learning on the job. You are also giving Roy too much credit for beating Toney. Hell, Dave Tiberi beat Toney, but wuz robbed.


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## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

I know exactly who it is and I'm not going to tell you.


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## BoxingJabsBlog (Sep 20, 2013)

What a tremendous topic.


To physically superior fighters who dominate (dominated in Roy's) in the exact opposite ways. Offense vs. Defense. To me, that's where Floyd, unfortunately and unfairly, will suffer in the eyes of casual boxing fans. Those highlight packages of Roy destroying guys and making them look silly look better than Floyd standing in front of a 23 year of bull and making him miss 70% of his punches. At least they do to the casual fan. 

I think Floyd wins out and any potential tie he'll win out because he still has 4 fights to add to his legacy.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

BoxingJabsBlog said:


> What a tremendous topic.
> 
> To physically superior fighters who dominate (dominated in Roy's) in the exact opposite ways. Offense vs. Defense. To me, that's where Floyd, unfortunately and unfairly, will suffer in the eyes of casual boxing fans. Those highlight packages of Roy destroying guys and making them look silly look better than Floyd standing in front of a 23 year of bull and making him miss 70% of his punches. At least they do to the casual fan.
> 
> I think Floyd wins out and any potential tie he'll win out because he still has 4 fights to add to his legacy.


good post and point. I didn't even bother to throw that one in there even thought i wanted to and not going to waste my breath.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

MAG1965 said:


> it is hard to compare resumes. Recently Floyd has added to his resume with Mosley,Delahoya,Cotto and Canelo. Jones fought Hopkins,Toney,Hill and McCallum. Those are his great fighters on his resume. It is Mosley,Delahoya and Marquez vs. Hopkins,Toney,Hill and McCallum. If all were prime I would say Roy beats Floyd unless Floyd had Pacman on his resume. I picked Floyd in the poll yet after looking at the resume maybe I should have picked Jones. Floyd has gotten better and has great fundamental skills over Roy, which is why he is fighting better at the end of his career and using experience in a way Roy never did.


I don't give Floyd real credit for the Mosley or De La Hoya fight, both were past it. 
McCallum was too old to compete with a fast athletic fighter, I can't give Roy much credit for that win, Virgil Hill was on his way out too, Hopkins as I've said earlier, at that point of his career, was too young - experience makes a fighter like Bernard
On the best signature wins alone, Roy will win it because of Toney, but there's far more to Mayweather's resume than that..so I can't say I agree with the criteria you're using i.e Mosley,Delahoya and Marquez vs. Hopkins,Toney,Hill and McCallum.

Other then that, I repeat again, Roy Jones fought fighters on the level of 'Carlos Gerena' on Floyd's resume. Floyd has good names from 98 to now. It's easier to look more impressive when you're against a Carlos Gerena...Mayweather is considered GOAT at 130lbs with performances like that. This is a really serious point. It's not fair to give excessive points to Roy for dominating Gerenas..

The names on Roy's resume are quite impressive, but that's only if you refuse to consider their condition..
Also, I don't believe Roy deserves as much credit for the Ruiz win. Why reward Roids? Roids made him bigger, and gives you a strong level of aggression etc. it helps in more ways than size.

When Roy lost his speed and athleticism, he lost a good proportion of his game. Mayweather can lose his speed and athleticism and he'll just fight more like Rigondeaux to make up for it. Mayweather is a thinking fighter, and is at his fighting-best right now. So that makes an even more profound statement when looking at how Roy was against opponents and how Floyd used to be against opponents.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

BoxingJabsBlog said:


> What a tremendous topic.
> 
> To physically superior fighters who dominate (dominated in Roy's) in the exact opposite ways. Offense vs. Defense. To me, that's where Floyd, unfortunately and unfairly, will suffer in the eyes of casual boxing fans. Those highlight packages of Roy destroying guys and making them look silly look better than Floyd standing in front of a 23 year of bull and making him miss 70% of his punches. At least they do to the casual fan.
> 
> I think Floyd wins out and any potential tie he'll win out because he still has 4 fights to add to his legacy.


Yup good post!


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> which imo floyd could've probably outdone had he beat pac back in 2010.


Yeah it would have been the best single win between them.



tliang1000 said:


> Well they were not ATG greats at the time.
> JMM can be considered as semi-in prime and future ATG
> Canelo could possbily live up to the hype and have a dominating career.
> 
> To me Floyd hands down got this... He got a lot more big names. Plus he lost to no one and still going strong. Losses diminishes a resume as well.


Toney was P4P #2 at the time, undefeated, and had smoked Iran Barkley in an ATG performance.

Hopkins wasn't an ATG yet but he was elite in his division and on film exhibited great fundamentals and ability.

"Big Names" doesn't mean quality wins by default, and in any case RJJ has the best two. A green BHop is better than a faded DLH, and that's arguably Floyd's strongest win.

Loses don't actually subtract from a resume. You don't act like someone didn't beat fighter A because he later loses to fighters B and C.



Sister Sledge said:


> B-Hop was not an ATG at the time. Did you see how much he struggled with Bercado and barely got a draw? He barely had amature experience, and basically was learning on the job. You are also giving Roy too much credit for beating Toney. Hell, Dave Tiberi beat Toney, but wuz robbed.


You mean Segundo *M*ercado? Bernard had already gotten himself to the top of the division competing with Jones for a vacant title shot.

So if Toney loses to someon else it's worth nothing to beat him? I guess there go the Mosley, De La Hoya, Judah, Marquez, Ortiz, Gatti, Cotto, Guerrero, Corley, N'Dou, Castillo, Sosa, Hernandez, Augustus, Baldomir, and Bruseles wins!!


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah it would have been the best single win between them.
> 
> Toney was P4P #2 at the time, undefeated, and had smoked Iran Barkley in an ATG performance.
> 
> ...


I disagree and is like our debate about in prime corrales and castillo vs MAB and morales except you are now pitching on the other side of the fence now. You're main justification was that they have beaten more names or elites which Castillo and Corrales only have 3 top wins. Now Jones really only have three top wins vs Floyd who's who resume.

I'm not going to debate too much about this but i definitely do not agree with any of your points in that post.


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## LuckyLuke (Jun 6, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Roy also beat unbeaten Gonzalez who went on to beat that *Dariusz *fella.


When he was clearly past it.


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## LuckyLuke (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> "Big Names" doesn't mean quality wins by default, and in any case RJJ has the best two. A green BHop is better than a faded DLH, and that's arguably Floyd's strongest win.
> 
> L


Really?
I mean Hoya lost 3 out of his last 4 fights. This cant be Mayweathers best win.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> I disagree and is like our debate about in prime corrales and castillo vs MAB and morales except you are now pitching on the other side of the fence now. You're main justification was that they have beaten more names or elites which Castillo and Corrales only have 3 top wins. Now Jones really only have three top wins vs Floyd who's who resume.
> 
> I'm not going to debate too much about this but i definitely do not agree with any of your points in that post.


I don't think I really changed my viewpoint, quality wins is above all. MAB and EM both had more than Castillo and Corrales, and I think RJJ has higher quality wins than Floyd, even if he loses out on depth.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

LuckyLuke said:


> Really?
> I mean Hoya lost 3 out of his last 4 fights. This cant be Mayweathers best win.


But he had a size advantage and was the most skilled out of his top wins. Who do you think is his very best win? Corrales maybe? Castillo possibly.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Too many alts in here :lol:


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

LuckyLuke said:


> When he was clearly past it.


But Gonzales was a can.


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