# Those favoring Canelo-please articulate how he's going to win



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Can people who favor Canelo articulate a better description of how exactly Canelo is going to win please? The pieces are just not fitting in my head. And when I only see one outcome of a fight, it usually means there's something in my blind spot.

So, here's how they're going to start:










Angulo is inevitably going to come forward. Now while Canelo's feet aren't totally useless, he can only move so many steps in either direction.










Angulo's was able to control the center of the ring against Lara, who is one of the best ring generals today.










Canelo is not nearly as good on the back foot as Lara. So in my mind, what I see happening is that Angulo inevitably closes the distance, and wins the inside war.










But this is what some people are saying; that somehow, Canelo is going to sit down on his punches and keep Angulo outside by throwing hard combinations at mid-range, and taking small side-steps.










My problem with this is, Angulo's pressure is constant. You're telling me Canelo is going to throw combinations and side-step for 3 minutes straight round after round?

If not, what is it? Is he going to just be tighter on the inside and counter-punch him (perhaps against the ropes)? Is he going to hurt him early and get him out of there before the rounds wear on? Or is he going to out-maneuver him with combinations and side-steps like some are saying?

Please illustrate it for me as I don't understand (literally, or figuratively, your choice.)


----------



## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

....well there's your answer...


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

I just read that Hunter said he's going to capitalize on Canelo's stamina issues; he's not going to let Canelo rest or take breaks. We saw some of that intense training in the "All Access." Looks like Angulo is mainly working on his stamina. 

Canelo, on the other-hand, is training all wrong for this fight. They were showing him trying to counter off the ropes in sparring. I mean that's the worst idea to have against someone like Angulo. It shows that Canelo knows it's inevitable that he will end up backed-up to the ropes, and he believes he could counter Angulo there. In addition, they have him still moving his head with his feet planted. Angulo won't be targeting his head, though. He's going to be getting on the inside--via Canelo's limited foot-work and hammer that body. They also have Canelo throwing strong combinations and resting--another fault because he should be moving after throwing combinations. Yes, those combinations will be effective, but fucking move afterwards and use that jab to keep him from advancing and throwing his own combos.

I just can't see Canelo winning this fight. I really want to see what someone has in mind for a Canelo victory.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

I hope Canelo gets destroyed.

Angulo isn't the most reliable fighter though.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Can people who favor Canelo articulate a better description of how exactly Canelo is going to win please? The pieces are just not fitting in my head. And when I only see one outcome of a fight, it usually means there's something in my blind spot.
> 
> So, here's how they're going to start:
> 
> ...


Great illustrations :lol:


----------



## Post Box (Jun 7, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> My problem with this is, Angulo's pressure is constant. You're telling me Canelo is going to throw combinations and side-step for 3 minutes straight round after round?


Yes, the later it goes the more I would favor Angulo but I seem him absorbing enough punishment early doors to at least slow him down. Alvarez hits hard enough to hurt him and I see him landing regularly enough to bust him up. Angulos eye is also a worry for me, I've had a fractured orbital myself and it still felt weak for like a year after or something ridiculous. I knew before Cotto-Margarito 2 that it would cause trouble, obviously Angulos injury isn't as serious but it's still something to look out for imo. As much as styles make fights alot of my prediction also just comes down to that I don't seem to rate Angulo as highly as others do, I just haven't seen it


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Can people who favor Canelo articulate a better description of how exactly Canelo is going to win please? The pieces are just not fitting in my head. And when I only see one outcome of a fight, it usually means there's something in my blind spot.
> 
> So, here's how they're going to start:
> 
> ...


:rofl Legendary analysis, Bog.

But I have to disagree. Gasnelo actually has a pretty good jab when he commits to it and could double and triple it when El Perro coming in, stopping is offence.










Gasnelo can also slip the straight right and come over with his money left hook that decked Baldomir among others










Also, he learnt the pull-counter trick from Floyd so he can lean away from El Perro's left to come back with a hard straight right










Gasnelo also has excellent ginger hair to convince judges ringside that close rounds are his










I don't see any other outcome but Gasnelo winning on the cards or shock hooking an overly aggressive El Perro.


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Post Box said:


> Yes, the later it goes the more I would favor Angulo but I seem him absorbing enough punishment early doors to at least slow him down. Alvarez hits hard enough to hurt him and I see him landing regularly enough to bust him up. Angulos eye is also a worry for me, I've had a fractured orbital myself and it still felt weak for like a year after or something ridiculous. I knew before Cotto-Margarito 2 that it would cause trouble, obviously Angulos injury isn't as serious but it's still something to look out for imo. As much as styles make fights alot of my prediction also just comes down to that I don't seem to rate Angulo as highly as others do, I just haven't seen it


He didn't actually fracture his orbital bone though.


----------



## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

You see it going the way I do in my head. If Angulo was a bit more reliable then I would certainly back him at those odds, I just think of incidents like Kirkland and the end of the Lara fight and it makes me wonder. 

The way I see it, Canelo has only been in with two decent fighters - Mayweather where he was outclassed, and Trout who's solid enough and fought him pretty close. In terms of the tempo he likes to fight at, both of these guys matched up pretty well for him. Angulo brings something he hasn't seen in his entire career, and something that does not match up well with his weaknesses. It's a very interesting fight.


----------



## gyllespie (Jun 17, 2013)

What I'd like to know is how Angulo going to avoid getting hit hard and often. Simply put: he can't and he won't. I can see him destroying Canelo if Saul is feather fisted. But that's not the case. Saul punches hard and precise. Mayweather and Trout were hard to find. Angulo is a stationary target. No defense whatsoever. And Angulo has shown us when he gets stung a lot by someone who hits hard Alfredo bails out. He has a puncher's chance. That's about it as far as I see in his column. He might just pull it off as I don't recall seeing Canelo taking a flush shot from a strong, true LMW. Canelo's chin is the only thing I'm worried out. Other than that he just has more tools to win. I got Canelo by UD or late stoppage but wouldn't mind seeing Angulo knock him out.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Mexi-Box said:


> I just read that Hunter said he's going to capitalize on Canelo's stamina issues; he's not going to let Canelo rest or take breaks. We saw some of that intense training in the "All Access." Looks like Angulo is mainly working on his stamina.
> 
> Canelo, on the other-hand, is training all wrong for this fight. They were showing him trying to counter off the ropes in sparring. I mean that's the worst idea to have against someone like Angulo. It shows that Canelo knows it's inevitable that he will end up backed-up to the ropes, and he believes he could counter Angulo there. In addition, they have him still moving his head with his feet planted. Angulo won't be targeting his head, though. He's going to be getting on the inside--via Canelo's limited foot-work and hammer that body. They also have Canelo throwing strong combinations and resting--another fault because he should be moving after throwing combinations. Yes, those combinations will be effective, but fucking move afterwards and use that jab to keep him from advancing and throwing his own combos.
> 
> I just can't see Canelo winning this fight. I really want to see what someone has in mind for a Canelo victory.


well he has faster hands and seemingly the tighter technique. in a fight that will be a power-punching brawl at times, that could help him. his willingness to fight on the outside. taking advantage of the fact that Angulo has to get close. he has better defense. that's just off the top of my head...


----------



## Post Box (Jun 7, 2012)

Wallet said:


> He didn't actually fracture his orbital bone though.


Oh, in that case Angulo KO1


----------



## Kid Cubano (Jun 5, 2013)

The eye bro, he has a weak cornea.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## KWilson71 (Jun 8, 2013)

These illustrations are great lol


----------



## randomwalk (Jul 13, 2013)

Has Canelo even faced a pressure fighter? I think Angulo could potentially stop Canelo. Canelo thinks he is a better boxer than he really is. He's going to try to box first then once Angulo's pressure gets to him he will attempt to counter off the ropes and get beat up. Then he will panic and not know what to do and this may end up being a war.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

gyllespie said:


> What I'd like to know is how Angulo going to avoid getting hit hard and often. Simply put: he can't and he won't. I can see him destroying Canelo if Saul is feather fisted. But that's not the case. Saul punches hard and precise. Mayweather and Trout were hard to find. Angulo is a stationary target. No defense whatsoever. And Angulo has shown us when he gets stung a lot by someone who hits hard Alfredo bails out. He has a puncher's chance. That's about it as far as I see in his column. He might just pull it off as I don't recall seeing Canelo taking a flush shot from a strong, true LMW. _*Canelo's chin is the only thing I'm worried out*_. Other than that he just has more tools to win. I got Canelo by UD or late stoppage but wouldn't mind seeing Angulo knock him out.


i would be a lot more worried about the fact that canelo only had the ability(or courage) to throw 35 punches a round against light-hitting trout whereas angulo had the abilty(or courage) to throw 75 punches a round against lara.

the only real fight that you can make an assessment on the skill set of canelo is the trout fight as all his other fights where against compromised competiton(angulo himself is compromised coming off a ko loss and being kod in two of his last four fights) and are meaningless is trying to ascertain the abilites(or lack thereof) regarding canelo.

the mayweather match was a glorified sparring session(floyd himself being compromised as he does not possess 154 power)

i give credit to canelo as he was able to turn the fight with the kd against trout after being thoroughly beaten by austin in the sixth which was statistically the most dominant round in the fight.

if you look at the punch stats and the fact that austin, for the majority of the fight controlled the center of the ring, without the kd canelo lost that fight.

http://compuboxonline.com/compubox-stats-alvarez-w-12-trout/


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> ....well there's your answer...


Which one? Canelo magically getting competent stamina to throw and side-step for 3 minutes straight, or becoming a better mover than Lara and outboxing him, or out-doing Angulo on the inside?



Flea Man said:


> I hope Canelo gets destroyed.
> 
> Angulo isn't the most reliable fighter though.


That's definitely one concern, he's inconsistent. But I think it's safe to assume he won't look like he did against Silva.



Post Box said:


> Yes, the later it goes the more I would favor Angulo but I seem him absorbing enough punishment early doors to at least slow him down. Alvarez hits hard enough to hurt him and I see him landing regularly enough to bust him up. Angulos eye is also a worry for me, I've had a fractured orbital myself and it still felt weak for like a year after or something ridiculous. I knew before Cotto-Margarito 2 that it would cause trouble, obviously Angulos injury isn't as serious but it's still something to look out for imo. As much as styles make fights alot of my prediction also just comes down to that I don't seem to rate Angulo as highly as others do, I just haven't seen it


How much will it take though? How many combinations, how many punches? And at what rate? Every second, Angulo will be marching forward.



BigBone said:


> :rofl Legendary analysis, Bog.
> 
> But I have to disagree. Gasnelo actually has a pretty good jab when he commits to it and could double and triple it when El Perro coming in, stopping is offence.
> 
> ...


This is a great break down of the punches that Canelo should use against Angulo. Stiff jabs, counter lefts around the guard, counter-rights, etc. But how many of these would he have to throw in order to keep Angulo from stepping into range and pushing him back? How many before Angulo gets hurt?



gyllespie said:


> What I'd like to know is how Angulo going to avoid getting hit hard and often. Simply put: he can't and he won't. I can see him destroying Canelo if Saul is feather fisted. But that's not the case. Saul punches hard and precise. Mayweather and Trout were hard to find. Angulo is a stationary target. No defense whatsoever. And Angulo has shown us when he gets stung a lot by someone who hits hard Alfredo bails out. He has a puncher's chance. That's about it as far as I see in his column. He might just pull it off as I don't recall seeing Canelo taking a flush shot from a strong, true LMW. Canelo's chin is the only thing I'm worried out. Other than that he just has more tools to win. I got Canelo by UD or late stoppage but wouldn't mind seeing Angulo knock him out.


If Angulo was such a stationary target, how was he still able to pressure Lara? Lara is far from featherfisted and threw in high volume at a frantic pace. Angulo gets hit for sure, but he's not static, he comes forward and stalks and smothers. He's not the sitting duck here; if anyone, Canelo is. Angulo finds haven at close quarters; where is Canelo supposed to go?



Post Box said:


> Oh, in that case Angulo KO1


:lol:

I mean shit, Margarito's eye was an orbital fracture that required surgery because muscle was packed into the fracture, and lasted 10 rounds taking clean punch after clean punch from Cotto. Angulo had a freakin cornea scratch.


----------



## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

Canelo is going to counter Angulo it might look a little bit like JMM - Katsidis. Yes Canelo will slow down later in the fight but I don't think Angulo will be able to take all the punishment long enough to capatilize on it and who knows his eye might be permanently damaged and close again


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

Angulo is chinny is the #1 factor most are leaving out.
(He has been rocked or staggered in all of his fights since his return)

Let's not forget that Angulo's gas tank is also pretty poor & has cost him in the past (Kirkland).
That high caveman brow swells up when a stuff jab is pumped in his face & Canelo has faster hands than "El Perro".

Alvarez fights nothing like Lara & Kirkland & besides they are both southpaws so no need to bring up their style.
Alvarez prob closer resembles Cintron than Perro's previous "L's" & the chinny Kermie was able to slap around a sick as shit Angulo for 12 RD's rather easily. It makes no difference to me who wins since I am a fan of both fighters stepping into the ring on Sat. My main prob with Angulo is he seems like a very delicate man mentally & he needs assurance from his people that he will do good & lacks confidence IMO. (His tweets & interviews tell some)


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> This is a great break down of the punches that Canelo should use against Angulo. Stiff jabs, counter lefts around the guard, counter-rights, etc. But how many of these would he have to throw in order to keep Angulo from stepping into range and pushing him back? How many before Angulo gets hurt?


Watching the first round of the James Kirkland fight, I'd say about... one.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> Canelo is going to counter Angulo it might look a little bit like JMM - Katsidis. Yes Canelo will slow down later in the fight but I don't think Angulo will be able to take all the punishment long enough to capatilize on it and who knows his eye might be permanently damaged and close again


JMM-Katsidis?! JMM threw a shitload of punches and was constantly moving. Canelo doesn't start strong and fade, he just constantly takes breaks.



BigBone said:


> Watching the first round of the James Kirkland fight, I'd say about... one.


:lol: That is a good fight to watch actually. Thanks. I've never seen Canelo beast out like Kirkland did though. And he had to get up off the canvas himself. You think Canelo hits as hard as Kirkland?



Hatesrats said:


> Angulo is chinny is the #1 factor most are leaving out.
> (He has been rocked or staggered in all of his fights since his return)
> 
> Let's not forget that Angulo's gas tank is also pretty poor & has cost him in the past (Kirkland).
> ...


Chinny? He got hit too much against Silva but I don't remember him being rocked. He never wobbled against Lara either and he hits at least as hard as Canelo given how he dropped Trout, it was an awkward stoppage due to a very specific injury.

Gas tank is poor?! He punched himself out against Kirkland, but he fought at a very high pace against Lara round after round. His stamina is beast and clearly superior to Canelo's.

Elaborate on the tweets and stuff, seems interesting. He seems to have strong bromances going at Virgil's gym.


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> :lol: That is a good fight to watch actually. Thanks. I've never seen Canelo beast out like Kirkland did though. And he had to get up off the canvas himself. You think Canelo hits as hard as Kirkland?


He has less raw power but more speed and accuracy, the idao of Angulo teeing off at will ignores Canelo's speed, size, punching ability and skills. I thought he did pretty well vs. Floyd, probably the best in years in the championship rounds, usually a Floyd whitewash, but those were quote competitive. Saul's gonna respond firmly to Angulo's attacks.


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

I just can't see Angulo bringing constant pressure the whole fight. His defence is just too leaky and he'll get hit way to much coming in that he's gonna have to make adjustments.

Either he does and wethers the storm until the late rounds where he can revert back to his style and capatilise on Canelo's stamina issues or he doesn't and gets stopped in the first 7 rounds.

Angulo doesn't just walk in throwing punches either he tends to cut off the ring well, paw with the jab waiting for a still target and then throws. Lara hit him time and time again with straight lefts while he did this and I can see Alvarez having no trouble having success with the jab and nailing him with the left hook which may cause a resurgence of the eye problem. Angulo will probably have little trouble maneuvering Alvarez to the ropes and teeing off to the body and while Alvarez isn't particularly effective at getting out from this position he can land some pretty nice counters like the uppercuts he caught Trout with and will go back to the body well. Alvarez's defence is pretty slick too which I think will keep him from getting caught with anything flush upstairs.

Alvarez is such a good combination puncher he's gonna love having an open target walking right at him and he will back Angulo up with these shots unlike Lara who nailed Alfredo with one or two then turned away and reset allowing Angulo to start walking him down again. I can see Angulo going down from a big combination as he showed little in the way of defence when Lara caught him and I think Alvarez will be able to land 4-5 clean punches in row. There is a little pause between when Angulo maneuvers his guy into position and waits to see if he is gonna throw and then lets his hands go which I think are the perfect opportunity for Alvarez to unload his combo's.

It seems Bogo like you believe Angulo will control the pace and distance which will be the biggest factors in him finding success. I agree mostly that at the beginning of the fight he will set the pace and will have the majority of control in terms of fighting where he wants to however I believe his defensive inefficiencies are too great for it to bring sustained success.

I may be wrong and if it goes late and Alvarez is struggling with the pace then Angulo may very well take him out. My prediction however is Alvarez within 7.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

BigBone said:


> He has less raw power but more speed and accuracy, the idao of Angulo teeing off at will ignores Canelo's speed, size, punching ability and skills. I thought he did pretty well vs. Floyd, probably the best in years in the championship rounds, usually a Floyd whitewash, but those were quote competitive. Saul's gonna respond firmly to Angulo's attacks.


I think the idea of Canelo teeing off ignores the geography. Angulo will come forward, he's more adept at closing the distance than Canelo is at constant movement to get space which he needs to punch.

I thought he did the worst against Floyd of any of his recent opponents. He had a big 12 round rally, probably the only round he won clear.


----------



## Elliot (Jun 4, 2013)

11/2 at skybet, might be worth a punt.


----------



## Ricky42791 (Jun 7, 2013)

I don't think you can call El Perro "Chinny" he can be hurt but he's not chinny but any means. Kirkland is a huge puncher and Angulo lost because of poor stamina rather than a shaky chin, that Lara eye injury was a freak thing. He was eating Lara's left straights all night but all of a sudden one stops him? Its obvious that his eye got fucked up in some weird way for him to turn around like that in a fight he was doing so well in.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Ivan Drago said:


> I just can't see Angulo bringing constant pressure the whole fight. His defence is just too leaky and he'll get hit way to much coming in that he's gonna have to make adjustments.


So why didn't this happen against Lara? He's a better mover, threw in higher volume than Canelo does, and hits roughly just as hard, looking at how they both dropped Trout.

(Not trying to be an ass when I respond, trying to get to the bottom of these issues with genuine questions.)



Ivan Drago said:


> Either he does and wethers the storm until the late rounds where he can revert back to his style and capatilise on Canelo's stamina issues or he doesn't and gets stopped in the first 7 rounds.


I think Canelo's stamina issues are constant though. He doesn't start fast and fade over time, he just always takes breaks. It's built into his rhythm. I don't think he will be out-gunned until late in the fight like the typical boxer vs puncher dynamic.



Ivan Drago said:


> Angulo doesn't just walk in throwing punches either he tends to cut off the ring well, paw with the jab waiting for a still target and then throws. Lara hit him time and time again with straight lefts while he did this and I can see Alvarez having no trouble having success with the jab and nailing him with the left hook which may cause a resurgence of the eye problem. Angulo will probably have little trouble maneuvering Alvarez to the ropes and teeing off to the body and while Alvarez isn't particularly effective at getting out from this position he can land some pretty nice counters like the uppercuts he caught Trout with and will go back to the body well. Alvarez's defence is pretty slick too which I think will keep him from getting caught with anything flush upstairs.


Yeah I agree, Angulo doesn't throw until he's closed the distance. That does give Canelo time to pick his shots. But once Angulo presses him against the ropes, you think Canelo will be able to simply out-craft him on the inside? Angulo is very used to punching with opponents on the ropes and Canelo's head movement is almost purely defensive. Those occasional counter-uppercuts he threw against Trout were after lots of inactive moments just trying to bob and weave. Angulo will dig to the body like crazy.



Ivan Drago said:


> Alvarez is such a good combination puncher he's gonna love having an open target walking right at him and he will back Angulo up with these shots unlike Lara who nailed Alfredo with one or two then turned away and reset allowing Angulo to start walking him down again. I can see Angulo going down from a big combination as he showed little in the way of defence when Lara caught him and I think Alvarez will be able to land 4-5 clean punches in row. There is a little pause between when Angulo maneuvers his guy into position and waits to see if he is gonna throw and then lets his hands go which I think are the perfect opportunity for Alvarez to unload his combo's.


So you think he can throw and move for 3 minutes over and over? I think he needs to reset more than Lara does. Lara punched and moved, punched and moved. I don't see Canelo standing his ground and avoiding an inside fight. Canelo often takes breaks of his own damn accord with no need. Someone pointed out that Canelo averaged about 35 punches against Trout, and Lara many more (against either Trout or Angulo). It's principally an issue of volume for me. Canelo has the skill, the punching form, the IQ, the power, but I haven't seen him move enough, work inside enough, or throw enough punches in volume for me to think he's not going to get pressed and outworked.



Ivan Drago said:


> It seems Bogo like you believe Angulo will control the pace and distance which will be the biggest factors in him finding success. I agree mostly that at the beginning of the fight he will set the pace and will have the majority of control in terms of fighting where he wants to however I believe his defensive inefficiencies are too great for it to bring sustained success.
> 
> I may be wrong and if it goes late and Alvarez is struggling with the pace then Angulo may very well take him out. My prediction however is Alvarez within 7.


I think early Canelo does have the advantage. But as I said, his stamina problems are built into his rhythm, not just about fading late. @bballchump11 knows about this.

I will say, the last time I used logic like this (the puncher will come forward, the boxer will not escape) was Matthysse-Garcia, and I was wrong. So maybe I'm underestimating the superior talent and it won't be so simple as the swarmer getting inside and wreaking havoc as the boxer-puncher gasses and stands still. How much Canelo can dish out *consistently* and how much Angulo is prepared to take or bypass that will determine the winner (along with distance and pace, as you said, which I think will be distinct Angulo advantages).


----------



## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

I'm curious as to how some of you figure Angulo is going to stand up to Canelo's accurate and powerful shots...I think Canelo busts him up, if Angulo had more defense I guess I could see it, but he's there to be hit and Canelo is going to hit him often.


----------



## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

Canelo is going to work Angulo's body hard early...I suspect he may get dropped by a body shot.


----------



## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

Reppin501 said:


> I'm curious as to how some of you figure Angulo is going to stand up to Canelo's accurate and powerful shots...I think Canelo busts him up, if Angulo had more defense I guess I could see it, but he's there to be hit and Canelo is going to hit him often.


He got hit often by Lara - but he was able to track down the much more mobile man and hurt him on several occassions, with the fight coming to an unfortunate end.

I think this raises a number of questions:

1) is Canelo going to be able to move as well as Lara? If not he's going to end up in a firefight trying to keep the distance.

2) How is Canelo's punch resistance? Canelo has tidy enough defence, but isn't the slickest. If he has to stand and fight with Angulo he's going to get hit. And let's face it, before Trout, Canelo had been on the hype job diet, feasting on has beens, never was's and smaller men. He didn't take many punches against trout, and Floyd isn't even a noted puncher at WW, let alone 154. Can he take El Perro's power?

3) Can he handle the work rate this fight will require? Without the movement to evade Angulo's attacks, Canelo is going to have to throw a lot of leather to subdue the pressure. In previous fights we've seen Saul take breaks an maintain a low punch output. How's he going to handle having to consistently throw punches for 3 minutes of a round.

Those questions make this fight interesting.


----------



## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

@Bogotazo If Canelo is forced to he will up his volume he doesn't because he knows he will fade he knows how good/bad his stamina is so he paces himself. That means if Angulo survives the first 6-9 rounds he has a chance if he keeps the fight at a fast pace but no Canelo doesn't gas THAT fast and he will throw more punches if he has to. In the end it comes down to wether Canelo will hurt Angula badly or even stop him before the high pace of the fight gets to him or if Angulo can weather the storm and I don't think he will be able to and he will either get seriously hurt so that he can't do much for the rest of the fight himself or his eye closes and he loses via TKO


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

PivotPunch said:


> @Bogotazo If Canelo is forced to he will up his volume he doesn't because he knows he will fade he knows how good/bad his stamina is so he paces himself. That means if Angulo survives the first 6-9 rounds he has a chance if he keeps the fight at a fast pace but no Canelo doesn't gas THAT fast and he will throw more punches if he has to. In the end it comes down to wether Canelo will hurt Angula badly or even stop him before the high pace of the fight gets to him or if Angulo can weather the storm and I don't think he will be able to and he will either get seriously hurt so that he can't do much for the rest of the fight himself or his eye closes and he loses via TKO


I believe Canelo had to take a few rounds off 2 or 3 rounds into the Alfonso Gomez fight. Only sprung back into action the round he stopped Gomez IIRC


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> @Bogotazo If Canelo is forced to he will up his volume he doesn't because he knows he will fade he knows how good/bad his stamina is so he paces himself. That means if Angulo survives the first 6-9 rounds he has a chance if he keeps the fight at a fast pace but no Canelo doesn't gas THAT fast and he will throw more punches if he has to. In the end it comes down to wether Canelo will hurt Angula badly or even stop him before the high pace of the fight gets to him or if Angulo can weather the storm and I don't think he will be able to and he will either get seriously hurt so that he can't do much for the rest of the fight himself or his eye closes and he loses via TKO


I've never seen him up the volume out of necessity in response to pressure. So he might sacrifice later stamina for an early offensive, but I don't think his breaks are only to pace himself, I think he trains and conditions himself to throw throw throw, step back and breathe; throw throw throw, step back and breathe. It's what he's habituated to.

You may prove right, but the assumption he can allocate his energy and breathing in such a way is a bit of an assumption.


----------



## Primadonna Kool (Jun 14, 2012)

Angulo is a mutated punching bag that has figured out how to throw punches back.

Angulo will bring some serious pressure, but in my opinion Canelo is quite a physically tough kid.

I just think stylistically, Angulo will give Canelo too much opportunities to land. Angulo's defence is, just putting his gloves infront of his face to impersonate a punching bag. 

There is very little lateral movement, very little side steps or angle changes when coming in: Nothing.


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> So why didn't this happen against Lara? He's a better mover, threw in higher volume than Canelo does, and hits roughly just as hard, looking at how they both dropped Trout.
> 
> (Not trying to be an ass when I respond, trying to get to the bottom of these issues with genuine questions.)


He threw in higher volume but rarely, and with little effect, to the body which Alvarez will do. The power is hard to judge but Alvarez certainly has a harder jab and will be throwing 3-4 hard shots where Lara was throwing a jab or two followed by a hard straight left or a quick right hook without much snap in it which was used to pivot away, he also occasionally mixed in an uppercut which didn't seem to land much. I also think they will get involved in more exchanges because of Canelo's poor movement which will take out more than readjusting and cutting off the ring again.



> I think Canelo's stamina issues are constant though. He doesn't start fast and fade over time, he just always takes breaks. It's built into his rhythm. I don't think he will be out-gunned until late in the fight like the typical boxer vs puncher dynamic.


I don't think his stamina is as bad as people make out and I think he'll stop it before that happens.



> Yeah I agree, Angulo doesn't throw until he's closed the distance. That does give Canelo time to pick his shots. But once Angulo presses him against the ropes, you think Canelo will be able to simply out-craft him on the inside? Angulo is very used to punching with opponents on the ropes and Canelo's head movement is almost purely defensive. Those occasional counter-uppercuts he threw against Trout were after lots of inactive moments just trying to bob and weave. Angulo will dig to the body like crazy.


He may not out craft him but his defence is tighter and he can go to the body just as well so he'll hold is own in most exchanges and although he doesn't rely on it he is a big strong guy I think he'll be able to create seperation better than the likes of Lara. I look forward to these exchanges as I think Canelo, although he shouldn't rely on it and is a dangerous thing to plan, can catch Angulo with the uppercut or the left hook while he digs downstairs and might buzz Angulo off it or knock him down.



> So you think he can throw and move for 3 minutes over and over? I think he needs to reset more than Lara does. Lara punched and moved, punched and moved. I don't see Canelo standing his ground and avoiding an inside fight. Canelo often takes breaks of his own damn accord with no need. Someone pointed out that Canelo averaged about 35 punches against Trout, and Lara many more (against either Trout or Angulo). It's principally an issue of volume for me. Canelo has the skill, the punching form, the IQ, the power, but I haven't seen him move enough, work inside enough, or throw enough punches in volume for me to think he's not going to get pressed and outworked.


No I don't think he'll move all that much but I think he spots openings very well though and that's where he'll change the dynamic as the openings are always there versus Angulo and he'll keep on finding them and will be able to back Angulo up as a result. If he catches Angulo during the pause that I mentioned before with a commited serious of punches and keeps doing it I don't think Angulo will be as quick to chase after him like was vs Lara after catching one or two shots again and again in high volume. To me, it's not the volume but rather the quality if shots the Alvarez hits you with that'll deter Angulo and swing it in Canelo's favor.

I think Angulo would be better to reduce the pressure slightly and be a little smarter with the way he comes in to ensure he lasts until late in the fight and then crank up the pressure.



> I think early Canelo does have the advantage. But as I said, his stamina problems are built into his rhythm, not just about fading late. @bballchump11 knows about this.
> 
> I will say, the last time I used logic like this (the puncher will come forward, the boxer will not escape) was Matthysse-Garcia, and I was wrong. So maybe I'm underestimating the superior talent and it won't be so simple as the swarmer getting inside and wreaking havoc as the boxer-puncher gasses and stands still. How much Canelo can dish out *consistently* and how much Angulo is prepared to take or bypass that will determine the winner (along with distance and pace, as you said, which I think will be distinct Angulo advantages).


Well you see I picked Garcia so you should just bow down to my superior picking ability. I pretty much agree except I think it's the quality of shot (which obviously has to be sustained to a reasonable frequency) that Alverez will throw rather than simply the volume, along with Angulo's ability to keep coming undeterred and pacing and distance. Also the gameplan that Hunter will give Angulo and the ability to adjust that gameplan.


----------



## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

:rofl Those fucking pics.

@Bogotazo I bet you a month's avatar bet that Canelo beats Angulo.


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Angulo´s power is good. But I honestly believe that Canelo is the more powerful puncher between the two and he´s the best counter-puncher too, let´s remember that he caught Trout with some counters when he was against the ropes very well. 
Canelo´s head movement is also better. I´m on the fence though, not confortable picking Canelo, Angulo has his advantages.


----------



## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> I believe Canelo had to take a few rounds off 2 or 3 rounds into the Alfonso Gomez fight. Only sprung back into action the round he stopped Gomez IIRC


I have to watch that fight but anyway Canelo is young and improves every fight (at least he has up to this point) and I think he beats Angulo


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Lunny said:


> :rofl Those fucking pics.
> 
> @Bogotazo I bet you a month's avatar bet that Canelo beats Angulo.


Only if the avatars are one of the scenarios depicted in the paint graphics.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

:lol: I like the illustration. 

and I feel that stylistically, Angulo is a big issue for Canelo. I just think that he isn't a willing to die like a Margarito. I think they said he didn't break any bones after visiting the doctor, but their still may be some scar tissue there. 

Canelo is not going to be able to out maneuver Angulo, but he's got enough fire power to bomb him out. Lara has much better footwork than Canelo, but his pace can also be a little sporadic as well. He shelled up a lot of times and just withstood Angulo's onslaught. I think this bodes well for Canelo. 

Lara was countering Angulo coming in immediately when the bell rang. Canelo will do the same but with combinations.


----------



## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Only if the avatars are one of the scenarios depicted in the paint graphics.


:rofl If I can paint my own scene of the fight for your avatar (all SFW and that) then you have a deal.


----------



## DaCrooked (Jun 6, 2013)

Canelo will win easliy. Solid defense and accurate counter punching will beat brawler with leaky defense


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I think the idea of Canelo teeing off ignores the geography. Angulo will come forward, he's more adept at closing the distance than Canelo is at constant movement to get space which he needs to punch.
> 
> I thought he did the worst against Floyd of any of his recent opponents. He had a big 12 round rally, probably the only round he won clear.


glass vision


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

IMO Canelo got the better defense, boxing IQ, and while he doesn't move as well as Lara, he got the size to keep Angulo from bullying him around. I think Canelo is just a sharper puncher, and his defense will allow him to counter punch Angulo. 

Angulo got the better camp and better trainer but i don't think he is there long enough for him where he doesn't have a defense problem.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I think if I rewatch Canelo/Mosley, I'll have a much better idea of what's going to happen. Mosley came forward a decent amount in this fight and backed Canelo to the ropes some. He also didn't use too much headmovement like Floyd and Trout


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Fantastic work Bogo!! The more I think about it, the more I am leaning towards El Perro. I think Alvarez will have more success against fighters with a 'cutie' style, those that do not press him much, and allow him to use his very underrated boxing ability. But against a hard hitting pressure fighter with a study chin, he's in a lane he hasn't driven before. I am a big fan of both guys. Angulo is the kind of guy who has to work his ass off for stardom, if it even comes. It's hard not to root for those types versus the #1 pick who gets a major signing bonus, car, and commercials right out of the gate, to use a basketball analogy. My number one concern when it comes to two fighters I enjoy is that neither gets seriously hurt, and the winner's win isn't tainted by terrible judges.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Ivan Drago said:


> He threw in higher volume but rarely, and with little effect, to the body which Alvarez will do. The power is hard to judge but Alvarez certainly has a harder jab and will be throwing 3-4 hard shots where Lara was throwing a jab or two followed by a hard straight left or a quick right hook without much snap in it which was used to pivot away, he also occasionally mixed in an uppercut which didn't seem to land much. I also think they will get involved in more exchanges because of Canelo's poor movement which will take out more than readjusting and cutting off the ring again.
> 
> I don't think his stamina is as bad as people make out and I think he'll stop it before that happens.
> 
> ...


after his seventh round knockdown trout averaged more punches/round thrown than before the knockdown(70/64) and averaged the same connect percentage(20 percent).

http://compuboxonline.com/compubox-stats-alvarez-w-12-trout/

below is a good description of a boxer that throws "quality" shots that weakens his opponent, as opposed to an opponent getting stronger, that leads to a "quality" ko.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/James_Kirkland_vs._Brian_Vera

perhaps you are confusing canelo alvarez with james kirkland


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

quincy k said:


> after his seventh round knockdown trout averaged more punches/round thrown than before the knockdown(70/64) and averaged the same connect percentage(20 percent).
> 
> http://compuboxonline.com/compubox-stats-alvarez-w-12-trout/
> 
> ...


Completely different style fight and with the open scoring Trout knew he had to press.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Ivan Drago said:


> Completely different style fight and with the open scoring Trout knew he had to press.


then why didnt trout "press" against lara when he suffered his kd?

when on to throw the least amount of punches in the eleventh and twelfth round while lara maintained his same pace

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/view.php?pg=lara-trout-compubox

perhaps canelo, since he knew that he had already "won" the fight, elected to not go for the KO and coast to victory against a guy that called him out in front of national tv after the cotto fight and claimed that he was all but average?

okay.

by the way, im sure that trout knew even before he was knocked down that he was well behind on the cards.


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

quincy k said:


> then why didnt trout "press" against lara when he suffered his kd?
> 
> when on to throw the least amount of punches in the eleventh and twelfth round while lara maintained his same pace
> 
> ...


I really don't put any value in punch stats especially when predicting a fight between such a different stylistic matchup.


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Canelo is not Lara. At some point, and I expect early, Canelo will sit down on his shots and hurt Angulo. This is going to be a coming party Cinnamon. CAN'T FUCKIN WAITTTTT


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Ivan Drago said:


> I really don't put any value in punch stats especially when predicting a fight between such a different stylistic matchup.


punch stats are one of the main factors i use in handicapping a fight because more often than not the guy that lands the most punches in the most rounds wins the fight.

first and most important factor for me is what fighter is being promoted in the fight(ie chavez/vera 1)


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Lunny said:


> :rofl If I can paint my own scene of the fight for your avatar (all SFW and that) then you have a deal.


Deal.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Canelo is not Lara. At some point, and I expect early, Canelo will sit down on his shots and hurt Angulo. This is going to be a coming party Cinnamon. CAN'T FUCKIN WAITTTTT


Lara hit Angulo with plenty of hard shots.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

BigBone said:


> glass vision


Nah. Canelo looked fucking helpless.


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

I wonder IF #TeamAngulo has been working in the clinch since he is working with Ward's team....
Angulo seems to lose all control once he is stunned or put into any type of stress.

Again I wish him the best, Just don't see him winning this fight in anyway.

I can't get over that Silva fight to be honest.


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Lara hit Angulo with plenty of hard shots.


I completely agree, but Lara and Canelo have very different builds. If Canelo sits on his shots, like he's capable of doing, he'll sit down with the intention to move forward. Lara sat down on a few counters but kept moving (he was giving territory to Angulo because he prefers fighting off the backfoot and using his defense). Canelo likes to kind of mix it up, fight at a slower pace, so I expect him to *NEED* to back Angulo up once in awhile. I think Angulo will come forward the whole fight (as we all know) and he will start the fight strong. I see him hitting, and possibly minorly hurting Canelo early. If Canelo responds like the Cinnamon champ he is (and I think he will), he's going to make adjustments and start planting his body into his shots. Trust me, Angulo will be wishing Lara was in front of him.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> I completely agree, but Lara and Canelo have very different builds. If Canelo sits on his shots, like he's capable of doing, he'll sit down with the intention to move forward. Lara sat down on a few counters but kept moving (he was giving territory to Angulo because he prefers fighting off the backfoot and using his defense). Canelo likes to kind of mix it up, fight at a slower pace, so I expect him to *NEED* to back Angulo up once in awhile. I think Angulo will come forward the whole fight (as we all know) and he will start the fight strong. I see him hitting, and possibly minorly hurting Canelo early. If Canelo responds like the Cinnamon champ he is (and I think he will), he's going to make adjustments and start planting his body into his shots. Trust me, Angulo will be wishing Lara was in front of him.


I think Canelo has the tools, I just question whether he has enough to be constantly doing it. He will have no room to not be working.


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I think Canelo has the tools, I just question whether he has enough to be constantly doing it. He will have no room to not be working.


Yeah man I'm sooooo hyped for this fight. Supposed to be chilling with my girl on Saturday, but if that falls through..no shits given. Right to the theaters for an excellent night of boxing :bbb


----------



## gyllespie (Jun 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> i would be a lot more worried about the fact that canelo only had the ability(or courage) to throw 35 punches a round against light-hitting trout whereas angulo had the abilty(or courage) to throw 75 punches a round against lara.


That really isn't a concern of mine since Canelo will find many clear opportunities to land his punches on Angulo. Saul's body shots will do the most damage (assuming he can land them which is likely). When Canelo finds his target easy to hit his offense overwhelms his opponents. Trout is nothing special but Canelo showed some good boxing ability in that fight. You don't need _great _boxing ability to beat someone like Angulo. IF Canelo can avoid or be able to take Angulo's best shots, there's really nothing Alfredo can do to win. He's just too limited and is past his prime. I've been wrong many times but I feel good about putting my money on Saul as the guy with more tools in his box _should_ get the victory. Saying Angulo puts Lara through hell AND convincingly beats Canelo is like suggesting to me AA is a top 3 LMW which I find hard to believe.


----------



## gyllespie (Jun 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I think Canelo has the tools, I just question whether he has enough to be constantly doing it. He will have no room to not be working.


I don't think he needs to throw 100 punches per round to limit Angulo's attack. Canelo's offense will serve as his defense. If he can land effective body shots it will slow down Angulo significantly. Canelo's head movement will give Angulo problems. If Angulo gets close and is able to land more shots than he should I have a feeling Canelo will resort to tying him up.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

gyllespie said:


> That really isn't a concern of mine since Canelo will find many clear opportunities to land his punches on Angulo. Saul's body shots will do the most damage (assuming he can land them which is likely). When Canelo finds his target easy to hit his offense overwhelms his opponents. Trout is nothing special but Canelo showed some good boxing ability in that fight. You don't need _great _boxing ability to beat someone like Angulo. IF Canelo can avoid or be able to take Angulo's best shots, there's really nothing Alfredo can do to win. He's just too limited and is past his prime. I've been wrong many times but I feel good about putting my money on Saul as the guy with more tools in his box _should_ get the victory. Saying Angulo puts Lara through hell AND convincingly beats Canelo is like suggesting to me AA is a top 3 LMW which I find hard to believe.


you are going to lay -800 on saul canelo alvarez?

i would wait as i presume that line will come down.

if canelo cannot hurt angulo the way he could not hurt mosley then there is nothing canelo can do to win because the pressure and workrate of angulo will eventually break him


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

quincy k said:


> if canelo cannot hurt angulo the way he could not hurt mosley then there is nothing canelo can do to win because the pressure and workrate of angulo will eventually break him


I agree... But also factor in that Angulo does not have anywhere near Shane Mosley's incredible punch resistance.


----------



## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

Wins via shady judging

sent from my mom's landline using tapatalk


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

gyllespie said:


> I don't think he needs to throw 100 punches per round to limit Angulo's attack. Canelo's offense will serve as his defense. If he can land effective body shots it will slow down Angulo significantly. Canelo's head movement will give Angulo problems.* If Angulo gets close and is able to land more shots than he should I have a feeling Canelo will resort to tying him up.*


I think Angulo has more experience in that area and will probably be bigger and stronger.



bjl12 said:


> Yeah man I'm sooooo hyped for this fight. Supposed to be chilling with my girl on Saturday, but if that falls through..no shits given. Right to the theaters for an excellent night of boxing :bbb


Oh shit, forgot about the theaters, might do that.


----------



## gyllespie (Jun 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> you are going to lay -800 on saul canelo alvarez?
> 
> i would wait as i presume that line will come down.
> 
> if canelo cannot hurt angulo the way he could not hurt mosley then there is nothing canelo can do to win because the pressure and workrate of angulo will eventually break him


Nah. It was just an expression. I don't gamble. I just have a feeling the ginger will win this quite convincingly. He's got enough experience and tools to get it done.

Mosley was fighting to survive if memory serves. I think a lot of people tend to overrate Angulo based on his last fight (which he lost). Lara has a tendency to fight down to a lesser opponent's skill level. I don't think Canelo will have a bad day at the office with Angulo. Could happen but not likely.

You're predicting a KO for Angulo?


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Nah. Canelo looked fucking helpless.


But he didn't. He landed a good number of sneaky left hooks, a couple of overhand rights, some success to the body by both hands, well timed jabs, an uppercut here and there. 4-5-12 were rounds you could give him, 1-3 were close technical ones for Floyd, 6-11 he got schooled but kept the pressure on, overall a very nice showing for a 23yo, I mean 3 years the junior of Lomachenko, and did moves Vasyl could've used to win on Satuday, but lacked. Besides not getting busted up by the end unlike most Floyd opponents and actually finishing like a champ in the 12th, only a couple of occasions Money could land 2 punches in a row. For a green Mexican fighter who decided to box with the master boxer, his defense was quite impressive. The fight had so many more positives than negatives, he was never gonna win, but the way he lost is something he can build on in the gym. I can PM you the 60FPS HD torrent of the fight, gives a pretty nice view.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I think Canelo has the tools, I just question whether he has enough to be constantly doing it. He will have no room to not be working.


The right tools are nothing in the hand of the wrong craftsman. :smile


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Watch round 7 and 8. Mosley starts pressing hard in those round


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

BigBone said:


> But he didn't. He landed a good number of sneaky left hooks, a couple of overhand rights, some success to the body by both hands, well timed jabs, an uppercut here and there. 4-5-12 were rounds you could give him, 1-3 were close technical ones for Floyd, 6-11 he got schooled but kept the pressure on, overall a very nice showing for a 23yo, I mean 3 years the junior of Lomachenko, and did moves Vasyl could've used to win on Satuday, but lacked. Besides not getting busted up by the end unlike most Floyd opponents and actually finishing like a champ in the 12th, only a couple of occasions Money could land 2 punches in a row. For a green Mexican fighter who decided to box with the master boxer, his defense was quite impressive. The fight had so many more positives than negatives, he was never gonna win, but the way he lost is something he can build on in the gym. I can PM you the 60FPS HD torrent of the fight, gives a pretty nice view.


People give Canelo credit for sneaking some shots in here and there, which deserves credit, but on the night I didn't give him a round. 12 is one you could give him though. His ring generalship was poor, he was laying on the ropes falling prey to Floyd's rangerfinder. You would think Floyd was the bigger man. It was embarrassing for him. He can't throw and step in any direction more than two steps at the same time.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Watch round 7 and 8. Mosley starts pressing hard in those round


Angulo will bring more intense pressure to the table compared to shot Mosley lol.


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Angulo will bring more intense pressure to the table compared to shot Mosley lol.


W/Much less punch resistance than Shane tho.
(Mosley took some shots body & head that Angulo would fold to)


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Angulo will bring more intense pressure to the table compared to shot Mosley lol.


I'm not adding an opinion to that post. I'm just trying to show an example of Canelo getting pressured and letting people watch it and form their own opinions. Shane came forward, clinched with Canelo, had Canelo on the ropes and both of them fought with their gloves touching. It's the best recent example to watch


----------



## Kid Cubano (Jun 5, 2013)

Angulo's face will be grossly swollen by round 6.
He will beg Hunter to stop the fight.
Lara ruined him forever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> People give Canelo credit for sneaking some shots in here and there, which deserves credit, but on the night *I didn't give him a round*. 12 is one you could give him though. His ring generalship was poor, he was laying on the ropes falling prey to Floyd's rangerfinder. You would think Floyd was the bigger man. It was embarrassing for him. He can't throw and step in any direction more than two steps at the same time.


U some Floytard bro? Gasnelo's gonna do to El Puppy what Floyd did to him.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I'm not adding an opinion to that post. I'm just trying to show an example of Canelo getting pressured and letting people watch it and form their own opinions. Shane came forward, clinched with Canelo, had Canelo on the ropes and both of them fought with their gloves touching. It's the best recent example to watch


yeah but it doesn't hold any bearing to Angulo-Canelo. Shot to Shit Mosley should never be brought up because he didn't bring any effective pressure. Angulo brings a lot more power to the table, and can actually pull the trigger. Mosley was just a shell of his former self against Canelo.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> yeah but it doesn't hold any bearing to Angulo-Canelo. Shot to Shit Mosley should never be brought up because he didn't bring any effective pressure. Angulo brings a lot more power to the table, and can actually pull the trigger. Mosley was just a shell of his former self against Canelo.


This is how you analyze fights. You look at fights of both fighters and try to find guys with similar styles or will fight similarly. We've seen Canelo in with 2 slick boxers in his last fights and a JWW in Josesito Lopez. The Mosley fight is the best fight to look at in relation to Angulo that you'll find for Canelo.

You can look at the pressure Shane is bringing and try to imagine that, but with the same size and workrate as Angulo. That's how you analyze. I didn't point at the film and give an opinion. I could have put the film up as proof to why Angulo would win


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

It seems Canelo's strategy is what a lot of his backers are saying. He says knows he's strong and brings constant pressure, but the plan is to counter and hit hard


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I'm not adding an opinion to that post. I'm just trying to show an example of Canelo getting pressured and letting people watch it and form their own opinions. Shane came forward, clinched with Canelo, had Canelo on the ropes and both of them fought with their gloves touching. It's the best recent example to watch


Yeah you know what to look for, thanks for posting. I'll check it out in a bit. Few examples so it's valuable.


----------



## r1p00pk (Jun 13, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> This is how you analyze fights. You look at fights of both fighters and try to find guys with similar styles or will fight similarly. We've seen Canelo in with 2 slick boxers in his last fights and a JWW in Josesito Lopez. The Mosley fight is the best fight to look at in relation to Angulo that you'll find for Canelo.
> 
> You can look at the pressure Shane is bringing and try to imagine that, but with the same size and workrate as Angulo. That's how you analyze. I didn't point at the film and give an opinion. I could have put the film up as proof to why Angulo would win


bball knows his shit :deal :bbb


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

why would anyone make any reference to the mosley/canelo fight?

the last time we saw shane before canelo he was begging naz to stop the fight against paq






and in as much trouble against 140 pound cano in round nine as he ever was against 154 canelo in his very next fight


----------



## Danny (May 31, 2012)

The fatal error you're making here IMO is assuming that because Angulo is a come-forward pressure fighter and likes to put guys on the backfoot that Canelo is just going to conform to that. Lara may have done so but typically he's much happier to adopt that kind of style in a fight, whereas Canelo throws more punches, hits harder in combination and is more aggressive. He'll bust Angulo up anytime he looks to try and close the distance and back him up IMO, forcing Angulo to try and trade with him from the center of the ring where Canelo's power, speed, accuracy in combination and better technique will see him stop Angulo.


----------



## Concrete (Oct 5, 2013)

More illustrations please!!!


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

gyllespie said:


> Nah. It was just an expression. I don't gamble. I just have a feeling the ginger will win this quite convincingly. He's got enough experience and tools to get it done.
> 
> Mosley was fighting to survive if memory serves. I think a lot of people tend to overrate Angulo based on his last fight (which he lost). Lara has a tendency to fight down to a lesser opponent's skill level. I don't think Canelo will have a bad day at the office with Angulo. Could happen but not likely.
> 
> You're predicting a KO for Angulo?


i am not overrating angulo i just think very little of canelo.

if this were james kirkland, yes, i would be predicting a win over canelo.

i just dont know whats left of angulos punch resistance to make a play other than an action one on alfredo.

fwiw, both shane and cintron had about the same odds as they are now giving angulo


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah you know what to look for, thanks for posting. I'll check it out in a bit. Few examples so it's valuable.


Thanks man and no prob. I think it has some good footage in it 


r1p00pk said:


> bball knows his shit :deal :bbb


Thanks man :good 


quincy k said:


> why would anyone make any reference to the mosley/canelo fight?
> 
> the last time we saw shane before canelo he was begging naz to stop the fight against paq
> 
> ...


why are you guys picking Angulo getting so up in arms? If you actually watch the rounds, it could make a good case for your side. Canelo looked a little fatigued and Mosley smothered Canelo a few times and kept Canelo from getting full leverage on his shots.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Thanks man and no prob. I think it has some good footage in it
> 
> Thanks man :good
> why are you guys picking Angulo getting so up in arms? If you actually watch the rounds, it could make a good case for your side. Canelo looked a little fatigued and Mosley smothered Canelo a few times and kept Canelo from getting full leverage on his shots.


not getting up in arms at all and my apologies if im coming off that way.

im just trying to point out that compromised fighters should be given very little weight when trying to cap a fight.

the only fight that i think that one can draw any correlations to is canelo/trout as austin was prime.

mosley, floyd(a sparring session with no pressure whatsover by either fighter), josesito, baldomir, cintron, gomez...all these fights should be given little credence as they were all compromised in one way or another

they would mean absolutely nothing if canelo were to fight andrade, lara, james, vanes, molina, charlo, as all these guys are prime and legit 154s.


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

quincy k said:


> the only fight that i think that one can draw any correlations to is canelo/trout as austin was prime.


The only correlation between Austin Trout and El Perro is this gif


----------



## Kid Cubano (Jun 5, 2013)

Concrete said:


> More illustrations please!!!












Ok, first Angulo comes aggressive after Canelo










Then Canelo turns around and hit him in the eye










Angulos eye starts swelling and he claims to be thumbed










They might KO each other a couple of times.










Until Canelo starts dominating a one eyed perro.










Finally Angulo quits but Schaefer tells him to blame Lara for that injure.
They embrace each other and credit each for being a warrior.
Canelo climbs number 2 p4p at ring magazine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

BigBone said:


> The only correlation between Austin Trout and El Perro is this gif


jajaja!

pretty funny

i wouldnt try to draw any correlation to austin and angulo as well as alfredo is coming off a tko loss and having been tkod in two of his last four fights whereas austin was undefeated.

alfredo angulo is just another compromised boxer that canelo is fighting that is more than just a coincidence


----------



## BoxingJabsBlog (Sep 20, 2013)

Regardless of how I feel about the fight, I have to give it up to you guys for bringing the entertainment to illustrate your points

-------------------

www.boxingjabs.com


----------



## Carpe Diem (Jun 6, 2013)

Ivan Drago said:


> He threw in higher volume but rarely, and with little effect, to the body which Alvarez will do. The power is hard to judge but Alvarez certainly has a harder jab and will be throwing 3-4 hard shots where Lara was throwing a jab or two followed by a hard straight left or a quick right hook without much snap in it which was used to pivot away, he also occasionally mixed in an uppercut which didn't seem to land much. I also think they will get involved in more exchanges because of Canelo's poor movement which will take out more than readjusting and cutting off the ring again.
> 
> I don't think his stamina is as bad as people make out and I think he'll stop it before that happens.
> 
> ...


Great post. A lot of you guys have already pointed out all the things that i think Canelo will do or think he can do against Angulo. I'll just add in that I think Canelo will do a better job at counter-punching against the ropes than Lara did against Angulo. We've seen Canelo being walked back against the ropes before, but it's not often we've seen his opponents just barged in on him and landed barrage of punches(Lopez did landed a few flurries on him in spurts, but that was about it).

We've seen Floyd and Trout pot-shots him at a safe and long distance because they were hesitated of being countered in return. Canelo does a better job at moving his upper-body against the ropes than Lara does. Lara tends to just use the high guard defense and let Angulo outworked him on the inside. Canelo won't able to use the same lateral movements as Lara showed against Angulo, but he'll retaliate with better counter shots when Angulo move in within punching range.


----------



## Setanta (May 24, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Can people who favor Canelo articulate a better description of how exactly Canelo is going to win please? The pieces are just not fitting in my head. And when I only see one outcome of a fight, it usually means there's something in my blind spot.
> 
> So, here's how they're going to start:
> 
> ...


Cintron kept Angulo honest for good stretches with his jab. Canelo's is probably better and improving. Ask Trout. :smile

And Canelo has the greater power of the two. Angulo has more power when he has room to swing and arc, but on short crisp shots, the kind that will predominate if Angulo tries to get too close, Canelo has more power and accuracy.

I'm not convinced that the Irish Mexican has as much of a stamina problem as folks think. Witness his 12th round against Floyd. ANd If anyone tires down the stretch, whether from overwork or over-absorption of punishment, I think it will be Angulo.

I see Angulo as having something of a chance early to maybe land something big and get lucky, but I'm more leaning toward Canelo surviving any onslaught and stopping Angulo late or getting the clear UD.

Now if Lawrence Cole is reffing or CJ is judging, well...

...anything could happen.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

I'd like to see where people are getting this idea Canelo can counter well off the ropes. He has like one counter right uppercut against Trout to show for this. 


Will Canelo's shorts predominate if Angulo gets close? Won't Angulo smother and position him and hammer his body? Isn't he more experienced on the inside? 

I feel like I'm going to be wrong but I wish I could get into your guys' head and see what you're seeing. This is so odd. I just can't SEE IT IN MY MIND awgt34hrgt


----------



## Indigo Pab (May 31, 2012)

I entered this thread with a great idea for making fun of you further when it comes to your views on this fight, then I read the OP and I've forgotten what I had planned entirely. All I now know is :rofl :rofl :rofl


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

Why compare Canelo/Angulo to Lara or Trout or even Kirkland in any scenario???
They were southpaws who fought in absolutely 100% different styles than either Alvarez or Angulo will be facing on Sat.


----------



## Setanta (May 24, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I'd like to see where people are getting this idea Canelo can counter well off the ropes. He has like one counter right uppercut against Trout to show for this.
> 
> Will Canelo's shorts predominate if Angulo gets close? Won't Angulo smother and position him and hammer his body? Isn't he more experienced on the inside?
> 
> I feel like I'm going to be wrong but I wish I could get into your guys' head and see what you're seeing. This is so odd. I just can't SEE IT IN MY MIND awgt34hrgt





Pabby said:


> I entered this thread with a great idea for making fun of you further when it comes to your views on this fight, then I read the OP and I've forgotten what I had planned entirely. All I now know is :rofl :rofl :rofl


:bbb

Mod spat ? :fight

:bbb


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Pabby said:


> I entered this thread with a great idea for making fun of you further when it comes to your views on this fight, then I read the OP and I've forgotten what I had planned entirely. All I now know is :rofl :rofl :rofl


:lol: I'm glad you're just discovering this now.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hatesrats said:


> Why compare Canelo/Angulo to Lara or Trout or even Kirkland in any scenario???
> They were southpaws who fought in absolutely 100% different styles than either Alvarez or Angulo will be facing on Sat.


When you're trying to get inside, stance doesn't matter as much. The closer you are, the less angles matter. The question is more about ring generalship. Lara is the superior ring general, yet got cornered. It's really all we have to go on.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Watch round 7 and 8. Mosley starts pressing hard in those round


Just watched. My observations are

1. It's not hard to get Canelo to the ropes

2. But once he's there, he can tighten up on the inside and rip awesome combos (forgot how good his punching form was). It might straight up turn into a war of attrition.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> not getting up in arms at all and my apologies if im coming off that way.
> 
> im just trying to point out that compromised fighters should be given very little weight when trying to cap a fight.
> 
> ...


so you don't want to compare Angulo to Mosley. You want to prepare him to an athletic southpaw who fights at range. Makes sense



Bogotazo said:


> Just watched. My observations are
> 
> 1. It's not hard to get Canelo to the ropes
> 
> 2. But once he's there, he can tighten up on the inside and rip awesome combos (forgot how good his punching form was). It might straight up turn into a war of attrition.


yeah man I was watching some of the fight and got real excited. This Saturday's fight is gonna be good


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> so you don't want to compare Angulo to Mosley. You want to prepare him to an athletic southpaw who fights at range. Makes sense
> 
> yeah man I was watching some of the fight and got real excited. This Saturday's fight is gonna be good


Yeah man, no matter what, fists will fly.


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

Angulo is getting iced


----------



## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

gyllespie said:


> What I'd like to know is how Angulo going to avoid getting hit hard and often. Simply put: he can't and he won't. I can see him destroying Canelo if Saul is feather fisted. But that's not the case. Saul punches hard and precise. Mayweather and Trout were hard to find. Angulo is a stationary target. No defense whatsoever. And Angulo has shown us when he gets stung a lot by someone who hits hard Alfredo bails out. He has a puncher's chance. That's about it as far as I see in his column. He might just pull it off as I don't recall seeing Canelo taking a flush shot from a strong, true LMW. Canelo's chin is the only thing I'm worried out. Other than that he just has more tools to win. I got Canelo by UD or late stoppage but wouldn't mind seeing Angulo knock him out.


canelo's speed is going to be too much for angulo. Also his defense is pretty good too. He outboxes angulo and as the fight wears on, angulo will weaken from being constantly hit and missing his shots


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Angulo is going to be absolutely relentless in this fight. it seems like Cotto Margerito 1 all over again. I can't see Angulo falling into Canelos boxing game.Canelo will use a lot of jabs and speed. Right hand power shots will land on Angulo. Probably make or break the fight in the centre of the ring


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> so you don't want to compare Angulo to Mosley. You want to prepare him to an athletic southpaw who fights at range. Makes sense
> 
> yeah man I was watching some of the fight and got real excited. This Saturday's fight is gonna be good


i dont think you understand

its irreleveant if mosely is a southpaw, orthodox or ambidextrous because at this juncture in his career he was no longer competitive at 147 let alone 154. just look how he struggled against cano in his very next fight and how he wanted to quit against paq in his fight prior to canelo.

i have no idea why people are making any references to any of canelos fights other than trout because all his other fights were against compromised competiton.

like you mentioned before its actually bad for canelo because he shouldve gotten that version of shane out of there.

i should know because i bet on canelo to stop mosely and is really when i began to be very critical of alvarez who was supposed to be some mostorous puncher but punched no harder than 147 paq(mosleys opinion after fighting both men).


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Angulo is going to be absolutely relentless in this fight. it seems like Cotto Margerito 1 all over again. I can't see Angulo falling into Canelos boxing game.Canelo will use a lot of jabs and speed. Right hand power shots will land on Angulo. Probably make or break the fight in the centre of the ring


angulo caught a lot of heat for quitting against lara and i think that he is going to try and make ammends for that against canelo

if he does not get hurt and is there in the sixth round i think he may to be too much for canelo who has never been in a war.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Just watched. My observations are
> 
> 1. It's not hard to get Canelo to the ropes
> 
> 2. But once he's there, he can tighten up on the inside and rip awesome combos (forgot how good his punching form was). It might straight up turn into a war of attrition.


its easy to look good against that version of mosley. at this stage in his career canelo, or anyone for that matter, can punch mosley with impunity with no fear of retribution.

lets see canelo do that to a prime 154 because i dont remember him ever doing that(successfully fighting off the ropes) in the trout fight.

perhaps he had a bad night against austin because he certainly did not have a good one.

erislandry lara would be an example of a fighter having a good night against austin trout


----------



## BoxingJabsBlog (Sep 20, 2013)

Canelo should take a cue from the boxing lesson he just got. Stand right in front of Angulo in the center of the ring and box his ears. If he starts the fight already on the back foot, it will not end well. He will be gased by the 6th round

-------------------

www.boxingjabs.com


----------



## ATrillionaire (Jun 11, 2013)

Canelo wins easy.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> its easy to look good against that version of mosley. at this stage in his career canelo, or anyone for that matter, can punch mosley with impunity with no fear of retribution.
> 
> lets see canelo do that to a prime 154 because i dont remember him ever doing that(successfully fighting off the ropes) in the trout fight.
> 
> ...


Well that's the key, if he can get pushed back by Mosley, one would think a strong big junior middle could as well. It also means Canelo isn't completely unused to fighting at close range, unlike say Pacquiao who holds against anyone regardless of level on the inside, but the question is if he'll be any good against someone more adept there than a shot Mosley.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Well that's the key, if he can get pushed back by Mosley, one would think a strong big junior middle could as well. It also means Canelo isn't completely unused to fighting at close range, unlike say Pacquiao who holds against anyone regardless of level on the inside, but the question is if he'll be any good against someone more adept there than a shot Mosley.


Thanks for trying to explain it to him. I didn't have the patience


----------



## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

countering off the ropes is what made Angulo quit against Lara.
I know he doesn't have the length or stamina to outbox him like Cintron did so that is off the table.
Going at him and attacking him worked for Kirkland and for Jorge Silva (who I felt beat Angulo)

To me knowing his stamina issues, and that he is a pretty good combo thrower who has some pop when he starts. I would opt to go at Angulo and do everything to take him out early, I think he has the skill to implement a modified version of what Kirkland did.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Thanks for trying to explain it to him. I didn't have the patience


i was trying to give canelo the benefit of the doubt that he was taking it easy on shane out of respect.

the same way paq couldve pressed shane for the ko if he wanted to but didnt.


----------



## Salty Dog (Jun 5, 2013)

gyllespie said:


> What I'd like to know is how Angulo going to avoid getting hit hard and often. Simply put: he can't and he won't. I can see him destroying Canelo if Saul is feather fisted. But that's not the case. Saul punches hard and precise. Mayweather and Trout were hard to find. Angulo is a stationary target. No defense whatsoever. And Angulo has shown us when he gets stung a lot by someone who hits hard Alfredo bails out. He has a puncher's chance. That's about it as far as I see in his column. He might just pull it off as I don't recall seeing Canelo taking a flush shot from a strong, true LMW. Canelo's chin is the only thing I'm worried out. Other than that he just has more tools to win. I got Canelo by UD or late stoppage but wouldn't mind seeing Angulo knock him out.


Precisely this ^^^.

The way Canelo has been marketed, if he can't find a way to beat Angulo, we finally know he ain't the goods and he deserves to get KTFO.


----------



## Pork N Chili (Jun 3, 2013)

While I'm taking the risk of picking Angulo to stop Alvarez, I just got to thinking: what if Alvarez doesn't try and outbox Angulo like people are thinking. Then I realized, "Oh shit, he might try to push Angulo back and make Angulo fight off the back foot." While it might seem unlikely (mostly because Angulo is probably stronger than Canelo) Cintron and Kirkland were successful against Angulo by pushing him back and forcing him to fight on the back foot. This, to me, seems like Canelo's best chance at beating up Angulo.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Pork N Chili said:


> While I'm taking the risk of picking Angulo to stop Alvarez, I just got to thinking: what if Alvarez doesn't try and outbox Angulo like people are thinking. Then I realized, "Oh shit, he might try to push Angulo back and make Angulo fight off the back foot." While it might seem unlikely (mostly because Angulo is probably stronger than Canelo) Cintron and Kirkland were successful against Angulo by pushing him back and forcing him to fight on the back foot. This, to me, seems like Canelo's best chance at beating up Angulo.


Angulo by ko will pay well probably around +900 so what risk are you talking about here?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Pork N Chili said:


> While I'm taking the risk of picking Angulo to stop Alvarez, I just got to thinking: what if Alvarez doesn't try and outbox Angulo like people are thinking. Then I realized, "Oh shit, he might try to push Angulo back and make Angulo fight off the back foot." While it might seem unlikely (mostly because Angulo is probably stronger than Canelo) Cintron and Kirkland were successful against Angulo by pushing him back and forcing him to fight on the back foot. This, to me, seems like Canelo's best chance at beating up Angulo.


Oh shit, forcing the pressure fighter on the back foot. Hadn't thought of that. Of course. Classic tactic. That would be very interesting to see. I think it may not come to mind because people see Angulo as stronger and willing to oblige Canelo and push back rather than retreat, but you never know.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Also seems like people are developing this idea that Canelo will sit on his shots, as if Lara didn't...not true










Plenty examples of him loading up and putting his weight behind his power punches.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Hatesrats said:


> Angulo is chinny is the #1 factor most are leaving out.
> (He has been rocked or staggered in all of his fights since his return)
> 
> Let's not forget that Angulo's gas tank is also pretty poor & has cost him in the past (Kirkland).
> ...


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Pork N Chili said:


> While I'm taking the risk of picking Angulo to stop Alvarez, I just got to thinking: what if Alvarez doesn't try and outbox Angulo like people are thinking. Then I realized, "Oh shit, he might try to push Angulo back and make Angulo fight off the back foot." While it might seem unlikely (mostly because Angulo is probably stronger than Canelo) Cintron and Kirkland were successful against Angulo by pushing him back and forcing him to fight on the back foot. This, to me, seems like Canelo's best chance at beating up Angulo.


Interesting idea, but Cintron and Kirkland are both better boxers than Canelo. Good enough, at least, to stop Angulo's body attack. Canelo would only be able to do this if he maintained a very high punch output, keeping Angulo at distance while he plods forward, but Canelo doesn't have that kind of stamina. This fight will almost assuredly take place in a phone booth, with Canelo against the ropes most of the time.


----------



## ChicoTheBoy (Jun 5, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Hatesrats said:
> 
> 
> > Angulo is chinny is the #1 factor most are leaving out.
> ...


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> That's the key right there, I think. Canelo is slow of foot, but fast of hand, and of course he hits a ton. He's not going to NEED foot speed, since Angulo has to take the fight to him, and once they are toe-to-toe, the guy with the faster hands and stronger punch wins.
> 
> There won't be any finesse to this fight, it will be rock 'em sock 'em, and I just don't see how Angulo can possibly win it, unless he gets lucky and lands a liver or kidney shot, right on the button.


Lara had faster hands, and I'd say he hits about as hard as Canelo. The problem for Canelo is volume.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

^ well, yeah that's what I'm saying as well. -but while lack of volume will stop Canelo from pushing Angulo back, it won't likely be enough of a problem that Angulo will be able to land enough to take the fight. 

And there's another factor that nobody is thinking about:

Forget the silly public sparring / training sessions, those probably don't reflect what really going on in the gym. Canelo recently got humiliated by Floyd. MASSIVELY, publicly humiliated. That shit either messes you up, or it makes you stronger. So, it COULD mean that Canelo gained some humility, and a new attitude towards training. While his trainers don't seem to be all that bright, still, we might actually see a "new & improved" Canelo on Saturday.

I personally doubt it, but it IS another factor to consider. 

Heck, even if Canelo was unable to learn any new tricks, perhaps he simply did more road work, or more plyometrics, or whatever, and thus improved his stamina. That alone would obviously make a HUGE difference in this fight.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Lara had faster hands, and I'd say he hits about as hard as Canelo. The problem for Canelo is volume.


you will never convince a canelo fan that alvarez does not punch any harder than anyone else at 154.

you can give them all the facts that support canelos average power but its the red hair that has them blinded.

mosley said that paq hits as hard as canelo(albeit with eight ounce as opposed to ten) and nobody ever proclaimed paq to be a devastating puncher at 147; he took guys out with volume


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> ^ well, yeah that's what I'm saying as well. -but while lack of volume will stop Canelo from pushing Angulo back, it won't likely be enough of a problem that Angulo will be able to land enough to take the fight.
> 
> And there's another factor that nobody is thinking about:
> 
> ...


so let me get this straight.

what you are saying is that on the cusp of stardom and fighting what was universally recognized as the best fighter in the world and of our era canelo did not take his training serious for floyd?

and now hell be new and improved because of humility? plyometrics?

good grief you canelo nuthuggers have taken this to another level of stupidity


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

In before the "Angulo has a glass jaw" trend begins on late Sat. Early Sun morning.
That said... #GuerraCanelo #GuerraElPerro


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

What people are forgetting is that Alvarez couldn't stop Matt Hatton, took 12 rounds of drubbing to stop Ryan Rhodes, couldn't finish a shot Shane Mosley etc etc

Sure he dropped Trout (nice shot)

But his best stopages have come against grossly outweighed fighters or never were any great shake fighters. Maybe Alfonso Gomez is the best stoppage on his record.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> ^ well, yeah that's what I'm saying as well. -but while lack of volume will stop Canelo from pushing Angulo back, it won't likely be enough of a problem that Angulo will be able to land enough to take the fight.
> 
> And there's another factor that nobody is thinking about:
> 
> ...


It's his weight cut that gives him no gas tank.

A move to 160 would liberate him.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> ^ well, yeah that's what I'm saying as well. *-but while lack of volume will stop Canelo from pushing Angulo back, it won't likely be enough of a problem that Angulo will be able to land enough to take the fight.*


But why not? This is the precise problem I can't wrap my head around. If it doesn't push Angulo back, what stops him from throwing 70 punches at Canelo's head and body?



Cableaddict said:


> And there's another factor that nobody is thinking about:
> 
> Forget the silly public sparring / training sessions, those probably don't reflect what really going on in the gym. Canelo recently got humiliated by Floyd. MASSIVELY, publicly humiliated. That shit either messes you up, or it makes you stronger. So, it COULD mean that Canelo gained some humility, and a new attitude towards training. While his trainers don't seem to be all that bright, still, we might actually see a "new & improved" Canelo on Saturday.
> 
> ...


This is the biggest reason my gut (not my head) is leaning towards Canelo. The smarter fighter with a marked capacity to improve looking to erase people's memory of such a one-sided loss and letdown. My hesitation is that he showed no improvements against Floyd. Maybe he planned for some that didn't work out because Floyd was that good, But seriously, instead of a plan A, plan B, and plan C, he just looked like he was going to show up and did what he felt like.When Floyd backed him up, he looked clueless. Not just inexperienced, but unprepared. So I used to have faith that he could improve drastically fight to fight after the head movement he showed against Trout, but that's faith he'll have to earn back from me.


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Josesito Lopez vs. Canelo Alvarez

1st round: Canelo expends all his energy sitting on his punches and throwing powerful combinations to Josesito. These punches deter Lopez from bringing any reliable offense--Canelo's power is too much.

2nd round: Canelo is tired and Josesito initiates his gameplan, albeit poorly because he's (I don't like using this word, but for lack of a better one) afraid of Canelo's assault and doesn't keep the pressure but moves into and out of Canelo's range.






Watch rounds 2, especially at 23:23 and beyond. Josesito should've kept on pressuring Canelo, but he keeps backing up. When he backed up, it enabled Canelo to find his perferred distance and tee-off on Josesito. Canelo had no answer when little Josesito started pressuring him to the ropes. He found success, and I believe Angulo can improve upon this success in 10-fold.

Canelo will, as he stated his gameplan is to punch hard, be throwing several combinations in round 1, but he will inevitably need to take a round off after. Round 2 is most likely when Angulo will start to bring effective pressure. We'll see how Canelo comes out, though, but it's inevitable that he will need to take a round off to rest. It's there that Angulo will find the most success.
@Bogotazo, you can find some good things in Canelo vs. Josesito, even for the mismatch it was. I know you posted that picture of Josesito backing Canelo to the ropes, but he actually found a lot of success there in round 2. What'll happen when a big, pressure fighter like Angulo forces Canelo to stay there? :bbb


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I remember making this GIF and posting it whenever I could back when Cotto-Canelo was being talked about. I was like FINISH IT MIGUEL, *FINISH IT*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just made a few more to go with the rest of the gang. The more the merrier.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hahaha @Mexi-Box you read my mind! Round 2 is a perfect example of what Canelo can't afford to do. I also like your observation on the way he backs up. One could mistake it for patience, but I think he just doesn't know how to consistently press. There's always a break in his rhythm.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Canelo just isn't very good.


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Hahaha @Mexi-Box you read my mind! Round 2 is a perfect example of what Canelo can't afford to do. I also like your observation on the way he backs up. One could mistake it for patience, but I think he just doesn't know how to consistently press. There's always a break in his rhythm.


Josesito set it up beautifully with the two over-the-top straights. Too bad he didn't stay in close distance with Canelo. Yeah, I guess pressuring conflicted with his style, and I'm 100% sure they didn't bring the gameplan to pressure and stay on top Canelo because of Josesito's size limitation.

Oh, another good .gif at round 4. Tall Josesito ducking Canelo's jab. Something that Angulo will have to do over the course of the fight. :cheers


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Also seems like people are developing this idea that Canelo will sit on his shots, as if Lara didn't...not true
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe Canelo will throw more combos and find more openings while doing so especially to the body. They recorded Lara throwing like 4 body punches after 5 rounds


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I believe Canelo will throw more combos and find more openings while doing so especially to the body. They recorded Lara throwing like 4 body punches after 5 rounds


Yeah big neglect on Lara's part, though I can understand why.

Check those Lopez gifs :hey


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

lara was going to the body okay in the first four rounds
that is until he got clipped in the fourth by angulos short counter left






what happens if canelo, who nobody knows what his punch resistance to this point is because all his fights to this point, other than trout, have been against compromised competiton, gets clipped by angulos overhand right while throwing his left hook to the body?

so many questions for a whopping -600 favorite


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

quincy k said:


> lara was going to the body okay in the first four rounds
> that is until he got clipped in the fourth by angulos short counter left
> 
> 
> ...


The Josesito .gifs Bogo posted definitely show Canelo in a bad position against a fighter much smaller and less powerful than Angulo. What'll happen when Canelo tastes real 154 lb. power (not saying Trout because he's big but feather-fisted as hell)? As you said, too many questions for a huge underdog in this fight :bbb!


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Just made a few more to go with the rest of the gang. The more the merrier.


I remember rewatching this fight and being impressed with Canelo's defense, but he does get backed up too easily. I mentioned this in my Trout/Canelo breakdown with the same exact pic of Canelo on the ropes against Lopez :yep

I feel you though man, Angulo is a big stylistically nightmare for Canelo. After watching those rounds of Canelo/Mosley, I got worried also. I was really picking Angulo to win, but time made me lean toward Canelo.


----------



## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

I have Angulo stoppage.
Canelo fights in spurts. (average stamina) Wich could give Angulo chances to actually get close and throw plenty shots. Plus Canelo doesnt has the feets to keep away from Angulo for the whole fight. And whe dont even know how hard Canelo punches. He got many of his knock outs against welterweights or average light middleweights.
What worries me is Canelos straight right hand. Angulo tends to go in in straight lines without throwing. So He might walk in to a straight right from canelo.
I really cant see an easy night for Canelo. He will have his hands full with Angulo.


----------



## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogo, that was the greatest opening post i've ever seen on this site


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

The fight will look like the Lopez one. Canelo stops Angulo IMO, sharper shooter, if there is one thing Canelo does well, is that his combinations are good against guys that are not movers, and Canelo hits harder, I feel. Better defensive moves too....


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> I believe Canelo will throw more combos and find more openings while doing so especially to the body.


Exactly my thought. 
Angulo will be there, in front of him, combinations will work, I have no doubt that Canelo will have the better ones.


----------



## Pimp C (Jun 3, 2013)

I gave a mini breakdown of this fight in another thread. Canelo will target Angulo's eye which is suspect. He won't need to out maneuver Angulo that much because he's so easy to hit. If feel he will keep this fight in the middle of the ring for the most part holding his ground with and effective jab subtle footwork and feinting. He will catch Angulo as he comes in with combos look to counter and and tie up when Angulo tries to work on the inside. Look for Canelo to do a lot of holding in this fight to try and frustrate Angulo and also take mini breaks. Canelo being the house fighter will have the ref on his side so he will break the action on the inside. When they break Canelo will always be first. Canelo will win most of the exchanges and land the more crowd pleasing shots. 

At the end of the day Angulo's eye will be a question mark and Canelo has adequate defense with good head movement to not take too much from Angulo upstairs. Angulo's only chance will be to target Canelo's body and try to make him gas but Canelo's holding tactics combined with him being the house fighter with the help of the ref will limit this and be Angulo's undoing. Canelo is simply in another class than the likes of Angulo and should win this fight by wide UD or TKO.


----------



## VG_Addict (Mar 13, 2013)

I think Canelo has underrated counter punching ability.


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

VG_Addict said:


> I think Canelo has underrated counter punching ability.


Yeah, he landed some pretty good ones against Trout..


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Pimp C said:


> I gave a mini breakdown of this fight in another thread. Canelo will target Angulo's eye which is suspect. He won't need to out maneuver Angulo that much because he's so easy to hit. If feel he will keep this fight in the middle of the ring for the most part holding his ground with and effective jab subtle footwork and feinting. He will catch Angulo as he comes in with combos look to counter and and tie up when Angulo tries to work on the inside. Look for Canelo to do a lot of holding in this fight to try and frustrate Angulo and also take mini breaks. Canelo being the house fighter will have the ref on his side so he will break the action on the inside. When they break Canelo will always be first. Canelo will win most of the exchanges and land the more crowd pleasing shots.
> 
> At the end of the day Angulo's eye will be a question mark and Canelo has adequate defense with good head movement to not take too much from Angulo upstairs. Angulo's only chance will be to target Canelo's body and try to make him gas but Canelo's holding tactics combined with him being the house fighter with the help of the ref will limit this and be Angulo's undoing. Canelo is simply in another class than the likes of Angulo and should win this fight by wide UD or TKO.


http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:321173

https://www.google.com/search?q=eri...AWVu4CQCw&sqi=2&ved=0CCMQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=633

both eric morales and hasim rahman suffered similar soft tissue eye injuries(no fractures) where there wasnt scar tissue involved and did fine, thereafter.

not saying that will be the case with angulo/canelo but if you are betting that it will history has proven otherwise.

in fact, canelo suffered scar tissue against mosley himself(and showed to fight very well with the cut).

some guys get cut and completely fall apart(winky/bernard).


----------



## Pimp C (Jun 3, 2013)

quincy k said:


> http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:321173
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=eri...AWVu4CQCw&sqi=2&ved=0CCMQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=633
> 
> ...


You could be right but Angulo has a history of cuts does he not?


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> It's his weight cut that gives him no gas tank.
> 
> A move to 160 would liberate him.


Aye.

Pretty sure Brother Naz said this before the Mosley fight too.

He's too big for 154 but his frame is too small for 160, for me.


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

Pimp C said:


> You could be right but Angulo has a history of cuts does he not?


Angulo defo has been cursed with a very strong brow area that is always a problem for fighters with his style.


----------



## VG_Addict (Mar 13, 2013)

If Canelo moves up to 160, a fight with Chavez Jr. would be HUGE. It would probably have to be at a catchweight, though.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

quincy k said:


> so let me get this straight.
> 
> what you are saying is that on the cusp of stardom and fighting what was universally recognized as the best fighter in the world and of our era canelo did not take his training serious for floyd?
> 
> ...


WTF, dude? I don't even like Canelo.

Canelo is a pretty boy who's been given everything by the powers-that-be, and surrounded by yes men for years. You don't understand that? Sometimes it takes a huge slap in the face to wake these guys up. - Look at Chavez Jr, post Martinez.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> WTF, dude? I don't even like Canelo.
> 
> Canelo is a pretty boy who's been given everything by the powers-that-be, and surrounded by yes men for years. You don't understand that? Sometimes it takes a huge slap in the face to wake these guys up. - Look at Chavez Jr, post Martinez.


chavez jrs best performance was the one before sergio when he anniliated andy lee.

to think that canelo needed a slap in the face to be 100 percetn for floyd, and will now somehow be new and improved, is really a topic not worthy of debate


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

whatever, dude.


Let's talk on Sunday. :deal


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Pimp C said:


> You could be right but Angulo has a history of cuts does he not?


i dont remember him cutting against cintron or kirkland.

and i dont remember canelo ever cutting a guy, either, just him getting cut against mosley on the headbut.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> whatever, dude.
> 
> Let's talk on Sunday. :deal


if canleo wins please tell me youre not going to come here on sunday and brag about how prophetic you were on your -600 are you?

its a -600

nobody talks about how smart they were on a -600


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

?


----------



## saul_ir34 (Jun 8, 2013)

Kid Cubano said:


> Angulo's face will be grossly swollen by round 6.
> He will beg Hunter to stop the fight.
> Lara ruined him forever.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Cubans... so desperate for attention.

Do you think Lara should get .5 a win added on to his record for this? I guess it would still be the same though as Sergio then gets .5 of Laras "win" over PW.


----------



## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

I think Canelo is going to fight a calm fight using his jab and slowly get his rhythm. I think he jabs and breaks down Angulo and swells his face a little by the 3rd or 4th round, and starts to land body punches by the middle rounds as he starts to mix up his punches up and down, yet focusing on Angulo's body, and I think Angulo is busted up and goes down with a left hook to the body in about 8 or 9 rounds. Angulo might land a few punches, but I think Canelo takes them well and will prove to be not the bigger puncher, but the physically stronger man. I don't think Floyd hurt Canelo at all or wore him out. I think the left hook to the body is the key for Canelo, which is all set up by the jab early.


----------



## Kid Cubano (Jun 5, 2013)

saul_ir34 said:


> Cubans... so desperate for attention.
> 
> Do you think Lara should get .5 a win added on to his record for this? I guess it would still be the same though as Sergio then gets .5 of Laras "win" over PW.


Everything you care is about the money they get, does Angulo pays your rent?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

So just to be clear, most of these articulations are based on things Canelo hasn't shown a previous capacity for, yes? Clinching, combination-punching in high volume while side-stepping, countering off the ropes, etc.? Banking on his capacity to learn and improve?


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> So just to be clear, most of these articulations are based on things Canelo hasn't shown a previous capacity for, yes? Clinching, combination-punching in high volume while side-stepping, countering off the ropes, etc.? Banking on his capacity to learn and improve?


:lol: I'm not gonna lie, when I was asking people to tell me why Canelo was going to beat Trout, they did the same thing. They just added attributes and skills he didn't have like "Canelo is going to counter Trout's jab with his left hook to the body" or how Canelo was going to pressure Trout the whole fight and knock him out (without getting tired)


----------



## Hook! (Jun 8, 2012)

we will see canelo's beautiful combinations in full force tonight


----------



## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

I think Canelo will fight in spurts, bagging enough early rounds to carry him to the end of the fight. I believe he has the ability to hurt Angulo with power combos; minimizing the dog's efforts of overwhelming/pressuring him.

I'm basing this on the belief that Angulo's punch resistance/durability, is an area of weakness in this matchup. If I'm wrong, however, and Angulo brushes off Canelo's attack, then things will get very, _very_ interesting. Especially if Canelo gasses and can't create space.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> So just to be clear, most of these articulations are based on things Canelo hasn't shown a previous capacity for, yes? Clinching, combination-punching in high volume while side-stepping, countering off the ropes, etc.? Banking on his capacity to learn and improve?


GBP picked a guy whos gonna walk into Canelos punches and is really not all that durable. Atleast not Margarito durable. I see Canelo firing off combos and sudestepping never giving Angulo a chance to set and throw with power. Canelo is a really goid combination puncher and defensively responsible. Hes thick and Angulo womt be anle to shove him around.

I got canelo in 8


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Canelo will be hit. But he is the more powerful guy IMO, and has the better defense. Most rounds will look close, but I see Canelo landing some clean ones that will make Angulo hit the canvas, I think Canelo´s body punches will land quite easily....I see the same that happened against Lopez, but maybe tougher, Angulo will make it harder than Lopez did, for sure actually, but in the end, the same outcome.
Canelo is not busy but when he throws, against guys who are not good movers, his combinations generally are pretty good.


----------



## Carpe Diem (Jun 6, 2013)

What do you have to say now, Bogo?:smile


----------



## artful (May 10, 2013)

LolZ Bogo.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Something like that


----------



## Carpe Diem (Jun 6, 2013)

Bullshit stoppage, but Angulo wasn't winning anyway.


----------



## Brownies (Jun 7, 2013)

Brownies said:


> I'm the only one picking Canelo so far... :verysad I think he's got the chin/power/accuracy to trouble Angulo fast, even if the latter is known as the brawler.


:rofl


----------



## Atlanta (Sep 17, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Can people who favor Canelo articulate a better description of how exactly Canelo is going to win please? The pieces are just not fitting in my head. And when I only see one outcome of a fight, it usually means there's something in my blind spot.
> 
> So, here's how they're going to start:
> 
> ...


All of that MS paint excellence for nothing.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Carpe Diem said:


> What do you have to say now, Bogo?:smile


thats its time for canelo to fight a guy not coming off a tko loss and losing two of his last four by tko?

step up and fight lara, andrade or kirkland


----------



## Brownies (Jun 7, 2013)

quincy k said:


> thats its time for canelo to fight a guy not coming off a tko loss and losing two of his last four by tko?
> 
> step up and fight lara, andrade or kirkland


The guy fought Mayweather !


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

damn I got this one right


----------



## Carpe Diem (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> damn I got this one right


Didn't you agreed with Bogo that Canelo wouldn't win?


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Carpe Diem said:


> Didn't you agreed with Bogo that Canelo wouldn't win?


naw, but I was agreeing with a lot of the things he was saying. I thought Angulo would provide a lot of trouble stylistically, but he wasn't good enough to pull it off.



bballchump11 said:


> :lol: I like the illustration.
> 
> and I feel that stylistically, Angulo is a big issue for Canelo. I just think that he isn't a willing to die like a Margarito. I think they said he didn't break any bones after visiting the doctor, but their still may be some scar tissue there.
> 
> ...


----------



## artful (May 10, 2013)

:lol::lol:


Flea Man said:


> I hope Canelo gets destroyed.
> 
> Angulo isn't the most reliable fighter though.





Flea Man said:


> I believe Canelo had to take a few rounds off 2 or 3 rounds into the Alfonso Gomez fight. Only sprung back into action the round he stopped Gomez IIRC





Flea Man said:


> Canelo just isn't very good.


:lol::lol::rofl:roflatsch bum.


----------



## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

Reppin501 said:


> I'm curious as to how some of you figure Angulo is going to stand up to Canelo's accurate and powerful shots...I think Canelo busts him up, if Angulo had more defense I guess I could see it, but he's there to be hit and Canelo is going to hit him often.





Reppin501 said:


> Canelo is going to work Angulo's body hard early...I suspect he may get dropped by a body shot.


Called that shit...but I still expected Angulo to give him more problems, Canelo fought pissed off from start to finish. Canelo was awesome tonight...even showed he had a better chin that he's given credit for, he took some good shots.


----------



## KWilson71 (Jun 8, 2013)

KWilson71 said:


> I'm surprised how many people are picking Angulo,it will be a tough fight for sure but I can't see him winning. Too easy to hit,The combinations Canelo couldn't get off against Trout or Floyd will be there all night against Angulo. Noticeable speed advantage. Going to hold on the inside. Has more than enough power to gain Angulo's respect. I think he's going to look very impressive.





KWilson71 said:


> I don't see Canelo on the backfoot as much as Lara was. IMO he's physically stronger and can hold his ground against Angulo alot better,I think he will look to hold on the inside and not mix it up as much as Lara did at times.
> 
> I also believe Canelo will do a better job at punishing Angulo coming in with some good combos. I don't see his eye holding up for too long.


Even though alot of us picked Canelo comfortably. I don't think any of us expected him to look that good


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Fair play to those who called it right(and if you look at my Angulo thread you'll see I was one of them)

But without taking anything away from Canelo,I fell asleep and missed the first five rounds and when it was over,the UK guys said Angulo looked like there was something up with him from the first bell.I just thought he was getting dominated when I tuned in.
Is it true that he seemed doomed or was there some truth to him being noticeably out of sorts?

And I fucking HATE when you lose the over by seconds.

And Bogo picked it wrong.Big deal.Cut the guy some slack please.


----------



## DaCrooked (Jun 6, 2013)

KWilson71 said:


> Even though alot of us picked Canelo comfortably. I don't think any of us expected him to look that good


I did. I saw the kid at times do a respectable job of avoiding Mayweather's shots. No way in hell a slow ass Angulo was going to be able to find him.


----------



## Setanta (May 24, 2013)

Carpe Diem said:


> Bullshit stoppage, but Angulo wasn't winning anyway.


What the fuck was bullshit about it ?

Did you catch Mago's fight a few weeks ago ?

Bet he wishes it had been stopped in the middle of the ninth, so he could piss without assistance now.

Angulo was not even competitive.

I predicted Canelo would stop Alfredo or get a very clear UD, but I thougt the affair would have been a bit more competitive.


----------



## TSOL (Dec 15, 2013)

i thought Canelo would win...but damn not like that.


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Angulo was taking the middle of the ring later on in the fight, mainly due to Canelo gassing out and wanted to take a break. But Canelo was a lot stronger and more powerful than most of us gave him credit. he looks stronger for this fight than we've ever seen him before IMO. each of his punches, combo after combo. He had world class strength in his shots.


----------



## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Fair play to those who called it right(and if you look at my Angulo thread you'll see I was one of them)
> 
> But without taking anything away from Canelo,I fell asleep and missed the first five rounds and when it was over,the UK guys said Angulo looked like there was something up with him from the first bell.I just thought he was getting dominated when I tuned in.
> Is it true that he seemed doomed or was there some truth to him being noticeably out of sorts?
> ...


He fucking punished his body...I mean fucking wicked body shots, when the videos are put up on YouTube, check it out. He hurt him early to the body and just kept pounding it..but I'm not talking about your regular "good body work" like Floyd would do, I'm talking about ripping the body...like I said when you get a chance to see the whole fight, you'll see what I'm talking about. Furthermore, Canelo came out from the opening bell fucking pissed, just hammering him from the jump. Angulo never had a chance, he wasn't ready for this Canelo.


----------



## Setanta (May 24, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Canelo just isn't very good.


Actually, it appears he is, Flea.


----------



## Setanta (May 24, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Angulo was taking the middle of the ring later on in the fight, mainly due to Canelo gassing out and wanted to take a break. But Canelo was a lot stronger and more powerful than most of us gave him credit. he looks stronger for this fight than we've ever seen him before IMO. each of his punches, combo after combo. He had world class strength in his shots.


At no time did Canelo gas.

He got bored a couple of times, moved to the ropes, looked away from Angulo and looked like he was about to start chatting with someone in the crowd.

He took a few smacks from Alfie, turned back and responded with a few of his own, at least twice as hard, and then clowned his opponent.

He did all of that, but he never gassed.


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Well we all look at the fight differently. But it seemed clear to me Canelo was running out of energy. He kept a very measured pace to save himself for 12 rds he was clearly under a lot of strain. He lost a lot of bounce of his step but tonight he wasn't really in danger of running out completely. Angulo just couldn't push Canelo deep enough


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Fair play to those who called it right(and if you look at my Angulo thread you'll see I was one of them)
> 
> But without taking anything away from Canelo,I fell asleep and missed the first five rounds and when it was over,*the UK guys said Angulo looked like there was something up with him from the first bell.*I just thought he was getting dominated when I tuned in.
> Is it true that he seemed doomed or* was there some truth to him being noticeably out of sorts?
> *


I'm virtually sure that Angulo was paid to "take a dive." His arm speed, even in the first round, was insanely slow, even by Angulo standards. While Canelo did look sharp & powerful, he basically had a heavy bag workout.

The fight was boring as hell. I'm still waiting for Angulo to start fighting.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Well we all look at the fight differently. But it seemed clear to me Canelo was running out of energy. He kept a very measured pace to save himself for 12 rds he was clearly under a lot of strain. He lost a lot of bounce of his step but tonight he wasn't really in danger of running out completely. Angulo just couldn't push Canelo deep enough


Canelo was tired almost the whole fight, but I have to give him credit. He fights pretty well when he's tired. It'll cost him vs a better opponent though


----------



## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Canelo was tired almost the whole fight, but I have to give him credit. He fights pretty well when he's tired. It'll cost him vs a better opponent though


You're my dude, but I disagree with this...he looked fast, sharp, and strong the whole fight. I understand what you mean by "looks" tired, but I think thats more based on his physical appearance, because I agree once he starts sweating he "looks" tired, but he damn sure didn't fight tired.


----------



## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> I'm virtually sure that Angulo was paid to "take a dive." His arm speed, even in the first round, was insanely slow, even by Angulo standards. While Canelo did look sharp & powerful, he basically had a heavy bag workout.
> 
> The fight was boring as hell. I'm still waiting for Angulo to start fighting.


I'm sorry Cableaddict, but you are full of shit.

There are much safer ways to take a dive man... for instance, literally taking a dive. Wouldn't that be much safer than stubbornly getting your fucking ass handed to you for 10 rounds? Come on man...


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Reppin501 said:


> You're my dude, but I disagree with this...he looked fast, sharp, and strong the whole fight. I understand what you mean by "looks" tired, but I think thats more based on his physical appearance, because I agree once he starts sweating he "looks" tired, but he damn sure didn't fight tired.


He doesn't get completely gassed and vulnerable like a Cotto, but he does tire a little. He started to get sloppier and drop his hands more and looked like a guy who was fatigued. But looks can be deceiving I guess


----------



## Carpe Diem (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Canelo was tired almost the whole fight, but I have to give him credit. He fights pretty well when he's tired. It'll cost him vs a better opponent though


That opponent would have to be a very active aggressor with faster hands than Angulo. Cotto might be that guy. I think Canelo-Lara is still a competitive fight.


----------



## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

I agree that Lara may be able to gas him, making him chase and throw bigger shots to try and level the playing field after losing a few rounds early.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Carpe Diem said:


> That opponent would have to be a very active aggressor with faster hands than Angulo. Cotto might be that guy. I think Canelo-Lara is still a competitive fight.


yeah and I think Kirkland is the only guy who could pull it off at 154, but he can't take the punch like Angulo.

Lara should be able to get in and out with his footwork and pinpoint counters though on Canelo


----------



## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> He doesn't get completely gassed and vulnerable like a Cotto, but he does tire a little. He started to get sloppier and drop his hands more and looked like a guy who was fatigued. But looks can be deceiving I guess


Canelo was tired. Early too. But he paced himself well and his stamina has much improved from before.. Him hanging in the pocket on the ropes rolling shots was a way to catch a breather. He wasnt outta gas but noticeably fatigued.

I think i overrated Virgil. What was the game-plan? I didnt see one. And how do you not swing for the fences when Canelo comes at you lile that in the first rd. TAKE HIS HEAD OFF! Angulo was too dumb to notice what was happening. Pitiful way he acted post-fight as well.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

genaro g said:


> Canelo was tired. Early too. But he paced himself well and his stamina has much improved from before.. Him hanging in the pocket on the ropes rolling shots was a way to catch a breather. He wasnt outta gas but noticeably fatigued.
> 
> I think i overrated Virgil. What was the game-plan? I didnt see one. And how do you not swing for the fences when Canelo comes at you lile that in the first rd. TAKE HIS HEAD OFF! Angulo was too dumb to notice what was happening. Pitiful way he acted post-fight as well.


yeah I fully agree with you. The guy knows how to handle himself while tired. He should learn not to display it as much though

and Virgil wanted Angulo to apply pressure and "let his offense be his defense" but I think early in the fight, Angulo got gunshy. I thought Canelo was about to get a first or second round stoppage there. It was vicious


----------



## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


>


Nobody wants to see Lara on ppv. Hes not getting the fight. He has unfinished business with Martirosyan, Angulo and Molina. Have fun fighting Ishe Smith wow that is going to put me to sleep.


----------



## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah I fully agree with you. The guy knows how to handle himself while tired. He should learn not to display it as much though
> 
> and Virgil wanted Angulo to apply pressure and "let his offense be his defense" but I think early in the fight, Angulo got gunshy. I thought Canelo was about to get a first or second round stoppage there. It was vicious


Ur right, he makes it much too obvious that he is winded. I like Canelos team but i think they could use some assisstance. Canelo is just such a student of the game, he has learned and absorbed so much in just a few years. And not making weight is final warning that he needs a conditioning coach.

Virgils game-plan was absolute shit. He shoulda turned Angulp into a monster during camp. Make him mad, relentless, a ruthless killer. Canelo slapped him with a few shots and angulo doesnt seem to mind. Angulo shoulda been the one coming out the gate like thay. What a crock Virgil is running over there. Brilliant guy but has some serious blind spots.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

What, because he beat Angulo? Wow, that's a talrnt affirmer right there.


Setanta said:


> Actually, it appears he is, Flea.


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

Oh dear. Whoops.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

genaro g said:


> Ur right, he makes it much too obvious that he is winded. I like Canelos team but i think they could use some assisstance. Canelo is just such a student of the game, he has learned and absorbed so much in just a few years. And not making weight is final warning that he needs a conditioning coach.
> 
> Virgils game-plan was absolute shit. He shoulda turned Angulp into a monster during camp. Make him mad, relentless, a ruthless killer. Canelo slapped him with a few shots and angulo doesnt seem to mind. Angulo shoulda been the one coming out the gate like thay. What a crock Virgil is running over there. Brilliant guy but has some serious blind spots.


I agree with you man. I know he loves his team, but I've mentioned how he should bring another trainer in or work with Pedro Diaz or maybe Nacho to help with his footwork. If he can punch on the more, he'd be really dangerous. And Canelo was looking to get Ariza or Heredia as a conditioning coach before the Mayweather fight, but idk what happened with that

and I don't think Virgil was the issue, but obviously he's not the best trainer for Angulo in the first place


Flea Man said:


> What, because he beat Angulo? Wow, that's a talrnt affirmer right there.


you picked him to lose by KO. Can you give the guy any credit?


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> I agree with you man. I know he loves his team, but I've mentioned how he should bring another trainer in or work with Pedro Diaz or maybe Nacho to help with his footwork. If he can punch on the more, he'd be really dangerous. And Canelo was looking to get Ariza or Heredia as a conditioning coach before the Mayweather fight, but idk what happened with that
> 
> and I don't think Virgil was the issue, but obviously he's not the best trainer for Angulo in the first place
> you picked him to lose by KO. Can you give the guy any credit?


No I fucking didn't you stupid cunt. I said I wanted him to lose. I did not predict Angulo to win.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

allenko1 said:


> well he has faster hands and seemingly the tighter technique. in a fight that will be a power-punching brawl at times, that could help him. his willingness to fight on the outside. taking advantage of the fact that Angulo has to get close. he has better defense. that's just off the top of my head...


well @Mexi-Box?


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> well @Mexi-Box?


Well, hey, you were right. :smile


----------



## Oli (Jun 6, 2013)

OP get in here and articulate how you didn't see Canelo winning this easily.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Reppin501 said:


> He fucking punished his body...I mean fucking wicked body shots, when the videos are put up on YouTube, check it out. He hurt him early to the body and just kept pounding it..but I'm not talking about your regular "good body work" like Floyd would do, I'm talking about ripping the body...like I said when you get a chance to see the whole fight, you'll see what I'm talking about. Furthermore, Canelo came out from the opening bell fucking pissed, just hammering him from the jump. Angulo never had a chance, he wasn't ready for this Canelo.





Cableaddict said:


> I'm virtually sure that Angulo was paid to "take a dive." His arm speed, even in the first round, was insanely slow, even by Angulo standards. While Canelo did look sharp & powerful, he basically had a heavy bag workout.
> 
> The fight was boring as hell. I'm still waiting for Angulo to start fighting.


Thanks guys.Two opposing views with Reppin saying Canelo has been watching my boy Mike McCallum videos(@Hands Of Iron !) and Cable saying the TV guys were right(although they didn't say it quite that strongly!:lol

I have to admit,the All Access eps had me taking to Angulo in a big way(no fucking ****!) so I'd hate to think he took the dive here,but I don't think Canelo would throw that about easily and conversely,Reppin has always been a reliable poster to me as well.

Other's opinions on @Cableaddict and @Reppin501's opposing views without me having to look through the whole thread please?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Carpe Diem said:


> What do you have to say now, Bogo?:smile


That Canelo was impressive, Angulo looked lethargic, and it was a bad stoppage. Angulo started coming on later than I thought, but he was indeed. I'd guess Canelo had enough to win the fight, but we'll never know, and Angulo was definitely coming on, not looking tired while Canelo's output was dropping.


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> That Canelo was impressive, Angulo looked lethargic, and it was a bad stoppage. Angulo started coming on later than I thought, but he was indeed. I'd guess Canelo had enough to win the fight, but we'll never know, and Angulo was definitely coming on, not looking tired while Canelo's output was dropping.


Good to see you, @Bogotazo. Yeah, you get some right and you get some wrong. People talking about "those who picked Angulo DKSAB" should take their asses back to ESB. You came up with some good ass points, but Angulo...

Oh well, at least find solace that @Kid Cubano's boy got straight embarrassed by Canelo. Look at the video, man, Lara was hurting bad.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

No sure why people are underrating Canelo for. He'll beat Lara, and Cotto imo.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> Good to see you, @Bogotazo. Yeah, you get some right and you get some wrong. People talking about "those who picked Angulo DKSAB" should take their asses back to ESB. You came up with some good ass points, but Angulo...
> 
> Oh well, at least find solace that @Kid Cubano's boy got straight embarrassed by Canelo. Look at the video, man, Lara was hurting bad.


I knew Angulo was going to take a shit load of punishment, but there were a few things different. One is that Canelo's volume was greater than I anticipated. Two is that Angulo was lethargic, not bullying or stalking Canelo with the foot-speed he used against Lara and throwing what looked like arm punches from the start instead of committing right away. Three is that the referee would be so quick to stop it without so much as a wobble from Angulo.


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> That Canelo was impressive, Angulo looked lethargic, and it was a bad stoppage. Angulo started coming on later than I thought, but he was indeed. I'd guess Canelo had enough to win the fight, but we'll never know, and Angulo was definitely coming on, not looking tired while Canelo's output was dropping.


atsch Do you have to be the Dealt_with of the week, Bogo?

- coming on my ass, Canelo gave Angulo a hellacious beating in the 9th to the point of the ref calling the doctor in between rounds
- Virgil Hunter told Angulo show something or I'm going to stop the fight & stayed near the ropes with the towel for the 10th
- Canelo started the 10th with 2 huge right hands Angulo couldn't react to as Weeks was about to step in, 20 seconds later a huge uppercut landed at will rocking Angulo

Any fucking surprise that Weeks stepped in after him, the trainer and the doctor looked to protect the beaten up fighter from being the next Magomed Abdusalamov? You guys like boxers fighting for their lives in coma?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

BigBone said:


> atsch Do you have to be the Dealt_with of the week, Bogo?
> 
> - coming on my ass, Canelo gave Angulo a hellacious beating in the 9th to the point of the ref calling the doctor in between rounds
> - Virgil Hunter told Angulo show something or I'm going to stop the fight & stayed near the ropes with the towel for the 10th
> ...


Don't compare me to that fuckwit, I never claimed Angulo was going to be the GOAT or anything like that.

Angulo was doing better as the fight went on, he CLEARLY did better in the second half than the first. That's a simple fact. Like I said, I think Canelo probably had enough left to win, but we just don't know.

Virgil told him to show something? Well how can he show something if the referee stops the fight off of one punch while he's still trying to come forward?

What do you mean "didn't react to"? He was coming forward clear-headed looking for an opportunity to score a KO.

Mogamed Abdusalamov was a fighter who was complaining about pains in body parts that were uninjured and claimed to feel pain and not be able to see out of an eye that had no abbrasions to it. He also looked more hurt at times than Angulo was (never wobbled). Signs were there the doctor simply missed, and he wasn't given the proper care quickly enough afterwards. Completely different situation.


----------



## I am tyler (Dec 20, 2012)

BigBone said:


> atsch Do you have to be the Dealt_with of the week, Bogo?
> 
> - coming on my ass, Canelo gave Angulo a hellacious beating in the 9th to the point of the ref calling the doctor in between rounds
> - Virgil Hunter told Angulo show something or I'm going to stop the fight & stayed near the ropes with the towel for the 10th
> ...


I've got to agree with some points here. I didn't see Angulo coming on at all. Alvarez won every single round, and while he may have been getting caught slightly more, he was still thoroughly dominating the fight.


----------



## Post Box (Jun 7, 2012)

Does this mean I know more about boxing than @Bogotazo?


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

The stoppage was fine. Angulo had nothing and Alvarez was toying with him. Good on Weeks preventing serious injury to Angulo.

Virgil Hunter "i told the ref if ge lands another combination stop the fight"


Canelo " i could have fought 10 more rounds"



Says it all


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> The stoppage was fine. Angulo had nothing and Alvarez was toying with him. Good on Weeks preventing serious injury to Angulo.
> 
> Virgil Hunter "i told the ref if ge lands another combination stop the fight"
> 
> ...


Virgil said that he would stop the fight if he landed another 2-3 punches, and said that when complaining about the stoppage because it was just one shot, so that point doesn't legitimize the stoppage at all.

I don't believe Canelo but his stamina did impress me. High output and good movement.



genaro g said:


> Canelo was successful in crowding Angulos work. And when Angulos had the range, his head was flying left and right from that jab of Canelo which Lara didnt use as effective. Point is Angulo looks much better coming forward, launching bombs at a mover. Angulo didnt know where the punches were coming from and was too dumb or stuck on the game-plan to really do anything meaningful.* He shoulda came after Canelo that first rd and landed something meaningful to gain some respect.*


Absolutely agree with that.



Post Box said:


> Does this mean I know more about boxing than @Bogotazo?


Perhaps! I got to go look at my record the past year or so. Wasn't bad. But it seems the more time I spend confiding in an outcome, the less true it becomes. If I write a one-line prediction, it's solid. If I make a thread on it, it's doomed.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Virgil said that he would stop the fight if he landed another 2-3 punches, and said that when complaining about the stoppage because it was just one shot, so that point doesn't legitimize the stoppage at all.


Virgil was ready to stop the fight. Doesnt matter what he was waiting for. Canelo landed a vicious uppercut and Weeks rightfully jumped in. Canelo was toying with him. At one point he was talking and motioning to the crowd while against the ropes. Hell the fight shoulda been stopped earlier. Complete whitewash


----------



## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Virgil said that he would stop the fight if he landed another 2-3 punches, and said that when complaining about the stoppage because it was just one shot, so that point doesn't legitimize the stoppage at all.
> 
> I don't believe Canelo but his stamina did impress me. High output and good movement.
> 
> ...


I honestly thought the stoppage was fine. They were concerned about Angulo taking too much punishment as early as the 4th rd. Angulo had a couple moments but he was getting beat senseless really. I didnt mind the stoppage.

Bottom line tho, Angulo was completely shocked at the way Canelo attacked him right from the ring of the first bell. I truly think Virgils game-plan was to get Canelo into deep waters so Angulo refrained from opening up too early. And with Canelos speed and jab, he literally had nothing to worry about, no respect for Angulos punching power. After that first rd Virgil shoulda slapped him n said "you gonna let him hit u like that? Hit that mother fucker back! Go get him!" At one point Virgil was screaming "this guy cant beat u!" over and over like uhh ok? Thats all ur gonna say... they lost this fight in the gym.


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> What do you mean "didn't react to"?


What do you think? He stopped having any sort of reaction to punches coming, and that's why the referee is there, to stop the fighter from taking punishment if the fighter can't.


----------



## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

I said it Canelo was too good. Canelo gets bashed regularly on this forum he got after being the first to beat Trout he did after getting outboxed by the best boxer of the last few years and now after beating the shit out of Angulo in almost every round he gets critized. Angulo isn't the greatest boxers but he gave Lara hell in his last fight how was this performance not impressive what is Canelo supposed to do. And that the fans boo'd him for the stoppage is ridiculous it wasn't canelo who stopped the fight and as much as I like Angulo the stoppage was the right thing to do Canelo even defended almost every punch when he was tired the stoppage was the right thing to do I wouldn't have been surprised if the fight got stopped earlier


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

It takes a mover to exploit Saul's flat feet


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Virgil was ready to stop the fight. Doesnt matter what he was waiting for. Canelo landed a vicious uppercut and Weeks rightfully jumped in. Canelo was toying with him. At one point he was talking and motioning to the crowd while against the ropes. Hell the fight shoulda been stopped earlier. Complete whitewash


Ok, Virgil complaining about the stoppage means he actually wanted it and a guy having better success late without ever being hurt should have gotten stopped earlier. Ok MW.



genaro g said:


> I honestly thought the stoppage was fine. They were concerned about Angulo taking too much punishment as early as the 4th rd. Angulo had a couple moments but he was getting beat senseless really. I didnt mind the stoppage.
> 
> Bottom line tho, Angulo was completely shocked at the way Canelo attacked him right from the ring of the first bell. I truly think Virgils game-plan was to get Canelo into deep waters so Angulo refrained from opening up too early. And with Canelos speed and jab, he literally had nothing to worry about, no respect for Angulos punching power. After that first rd Virgil shoulda slapped him n said "you gonna let him hit u like that? Hit that mother fucker back! Go get him!" At one point Virgil was screaming "this guy cant beat u!" over and over like uhh ok? Thats all ur gonna say... they lost this fight in the gym.


You'd be hard pressed to show me a stoppage where a fighter is having late success and the referee steps in after one punch when the fighter hadn't appeared stunned the whole fight.

I thought the plan might be to take him into deep waters, but in the 2nd round Virgil was telling him to "come alive" and "wake up". It shocked me how Angulo failed to commit to his punches early on, that had little to do with anything Canelo was doing.



BigBone said:


> What do you think? He stopped having any sort of reaction to punches coming, and that's why the referee is there, to stop the fighter from taking punishment if the fighter can't.


If a fighter's still being competitive and isn't hurt, he should be allowed to go on. It's not like he was doing worse before the stoppage, on the contrary, he was doing his best work yet starting to land more.


----------



## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

Dont know what to tell u Bogo. Ur mind was just blown tonight! Lol


----------



## Hook! (Jun 8, 2012)

ez prediction 
what next for both men?


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

genaro g said:


> *Dont know what to tell u Bogo.* Ur mind was just blown tonight! Lol


tell him what's on your mind DANI™-Amir


----------



## gyllespie (Jun 17, 2013)

I'm not going to give flak to those who thought Angulo would win. I just think you guys were overthinking it. Sometimes it's just simple math. Even if you believe Canelo is an average fighter, Angulo is still levels below him in terms of skill. It's not hard to see, especially when you consider the fact that Angulo is past his prime. Canelo is no FMJ but he has good enough defense to avoid most of Angulo's best shots. What could Angulo do to avoid Canelo's offense? Nothing.


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> If a fighter's still being competitive and isn't hurt, he should be allowed to go on. It's not like he was doing worse before the stoppage, on the contrary, he was doing his best work yet starting to land more.


Today, you don't understand the concept of boxing. Protect yourself at all times, he wasn't able to no matter if on his feet or not, so the ref stopped it. UK TV was relieved the ref did what Virgil was about to before too late, Angulo lives to fight another day.


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

BigBone said:


> Today, you don't understand the concept of boxing. Protect yourself at all times, he wasn't able to no matter if on his feet or not, so the ref stopped it. *UK TV was relieved the ref did what Virgil was about to before too late, Angulo lives to fight another day.*
> 
> 
> __
> ...


to be fair UK is known for joke stoppages


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

BigBone said:


> Today, you don't understand the concept of boxing. Protect yourself at all times, he wasn't able to no matter if on his feet or not, so the ref stopped it. UK TV was relieved the ref did what Virgil was about to before too late, Angulo lives to fight another day.


Protect yourself at all times doesn't mean block every punch while trying to go for a KO after never being hurt at any point of the fight. Was Margarito stopped in the first Cotto fight for taking all those shots? Was Chavez Jr. stopped after taking a hellacious beating for 11 rounds against Martinez? Was Broner stopped after getting dropped twice and getting battered and wobbled several times going into the 12th? No.


----------



## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> tell him what's on your mind DANI™-Amir


Im not ever picking against Floyd again. I thought Floyd would bang with the real el perro which is Guerrero and shit would get crazy. Floyd shouldnt be allowed to train with his daddy, that shit aint fair.

Cant wait to predict when Khan is going to lose.

And you know Timmy is gonna fuck Pacs shit up.

My boy Cotto im scared for fightin that big ol fruitcake southpaw.

Its gonna be a tough year


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Protect yourself at all times doesn't mean block every punch while trying to go for a KO after never being hurt at any point of the fight. Was Margarito stopped in the first Cotto fight for taking all those shots? Was Chavez Jr. stopped after taking a hellacious beating for 11 rounds against Martinez? Was Broner stopped after getting dropped twice and getting battered and wobbled several times going into the 12th? No.


Just stop, okay? You are making a bigger fool out of yourself with each post, like Gaul and Dealt_with last week. Do yourself a favor and stop talking nonsense. Protect yourselves at all times, he couldn't so the ref stepped in, trainer was about to, doctor looked to stop it too. I'm waving off this argument, go recuperate and analyze the tape of this thread.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

BigBone said:


> Just stop, okay? You are making a bigger fool out of yourself with each post, like Gaul and Dealt_with last week. Do yourself a favor and stop talking nonsense. Protect yourselves at all times, he couldn't so the ref stepped in, trainer was about to, doctor looked to stop it too. I'm waving off this argument, go recuperate and analyze the tape of this thread.


How am I making a fool out of myself by stating facts about the norm of stoppages? Again, Chavez Jr. took equally severe punishment, was even less competitive leading up to the 12th, and the fight wasn't stopped. Margarito was not stopped despite taking clean blow after clean blow from Cotto. Clearly you don't understand that the standard, the norm, is different to what Weeks did tonight.


----------



## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> How am I making a fool out of myself by stating facts about the norm of stoppages? Again, Chavez Jr. took equally severe punishment, was even less competitive leading up to the 12th, and the fight wasn't stopped. Margarito was not stopped despite taking clean blow after clean blow from Cotto. Clearly you don't understand that the standard, the norm, is different to what Weeks did tonight.


Ur wrong Bogo. Margarito was way more competitive than Angulo was here. Chavez fight, i dont believe Sergios output was as high as Canelos and id bet Caneo is much heavier handed. Martinez is just fast but not heavy like Canelos. Broner fight doesnt even compare. This was a straight beat down, head-snapping all night, Canelo couldnt miss. It was a demolition. Angulo had a good moment but it quickly ended and Canelo began toying with him. Let it go bogo!


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

genaro g said:


> Ur wrong Bogo. Margarito was way more competitive than Angulo was here. Chavez fight, i dont believe Sergios output was as high as Canelos and id bet Caneo is much heavier handed. Martinez is just fast but not heavy like Canelos. Broner fight doesnt even compare. This was a straight beat down, head-snapping all night, Canelo couldnt miss. It was a demolition. Angulo had a good moment but it quickly ended and Canelo began toying with him. Let it go bogo!


Angulo had way more than "a good moment'. Martinez beat the piss out of Jr. for 11 rounds, not 9, and it wasn't stopped. Broner was dropped twice and wobbled at least twice, Angulo was never stunned. Margarito came on around the 7th, Angulo around the same time (not as well, but not too far off). He was answering Canelo's punches with taunts. No reason to fight the stop at that moment in my opinion.


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

Why is it always the disappointed haters/fanboys with the delusions? :lol:

Had it been stopped in the 9th by doc/Virg would ANYONE REALLY be complaining besides drunk Mexicans? Only thing that happened between the break and the end was Angulo getting bombed at will and Tony looking to step in at any time. I'm sure Canelo could've broken a few bones on Angulo's iron head for you blood thirsty ppl., but then again, this is boxing, and the ref did what rules mandated him to, protect the fighter if he can't stop getting hit anymore. 

Anyone having seen the 9th round, the break and the 10th has no real basis calling this an early stoppage. Leavander wasn't even battered this bad. He's dead R.I.P.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

BigBone said:


> Why is it always the disappointed haters/fanboys with the delusions? :lol:


Why would I hate Canelo and who said Angulo was near one of my favorite fighters?



BigBone said:


> Had it been stopped in the 9th by doc/Virg would ANYONE REALLY be complaining besides drunk Mexicans?


Yes, the same people who are complaining now, who are more than just myself.



BigBone said:


> Only thing that happened between the break and the end was Angulo getting bombed at will and Tony looking to step in at any time. I'm sure Canelo could've broken a few bones on Angulo's iron head for you blood hungry retards, but then again, this is boxing, and the ref did what rules mandated him to, protect the fighter if he can't stop getting hit anymore.


Or Angulo could have continued doing better. But we'll never know, thanks to Weeks stopping a fighter who was never hurt or down at any point.



BigBone said:


> Anyone having seen the 9th round, the break and the 10th has no real basis calling this an early stoppage. Leavander wasn't even battered this bad. He's dead R.I.P.


Stop using an unrelated death to justify an unwarranted stoppage of a fighter who was never hurt in the fight. It's cheap and sick.


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

Angulo wasn't able to comply with boxing rule no1: protect yourself at all times.

END OF FUCKING STORY.

Many have died who finished the fight with better reaction to punches than Angulo in R10. It's sick, but it's a fact. Others live like this:


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Man, everyone at the theater was pissed about the stoppage.


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Excellent points Bogo. Many more severe beatdowns recently have gone ahead. Jcc jr was getting punished far more one sided. Ref was well within his rights but it was a weak stoppage.

Angulo had some good moments mid fight.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Excellent points Bogo. Many more severe beatdowns recently have gone ahead. Jcc jr was getting punished far more one sided. Ref was well within his rights but it was a weak stoppage.
> 
> Angulo had some good moments mid fight.


:thumbsup


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

Just got round to watching the fight. What a performance by Alvarez, pretty much went the way I thought it would although the stoppage was maybe a little premature Angulo was doing nothing defensively and his offense wasn't bothering Alvarez at all.

I was surprised at how poor Angulo's pressure was. I said he'd have a better chance if he took his foot of the gas early with the pressure, which he did, and then upped it as the fight progressed, which he did, but Alvarez dealt with it superbly by landing his offence at will. Still though why Angulo just followed him around rather than cut off the ring is beyond me and I was expecting a much more intense attack the times he managed to get Canelo on the ropes but Alvarez just completely shut it down.

Okay moan about the stoppage but you can't take away from Alvarez's performance.


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

Just reading over some of this thread. Hate it when this happens the stoppage has completely overshadowed what Alvarez did in the ring. 

:-(


----------



## Gunner (Jun 4, 2013)

Gunner said:


> Face forward pressure fighter vs Heavy handed counter puncher will only ever end one way, and that's badly for the guy who eats leather as a hobby
> 
> I've said that so many times I should probably put it in my signature


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

To be honest I don't think Angulo was having more 'success' in the second half of the fight, he definitely wasn't coming into it.

He nicked round 8 because Alvarez allowed him to get in some offense by dropping his output and not moving off the ropes the way he had been. It had nothing to do with what Angulo was doing. Stamina? Bravado? Who knows but even then it almost seemed like he looked more impressive losing the round than Angulo did winning it the way he rolled and slipped Angulo's shots whilst on the ropes and taunted his best work i.e looking away disinterested while Angulo tried to land bombs. The crowd were eating it up. You could make an argument that Canelo won the round as defense is a scoring criteria and he showed some brilliant defense in that round. He then followed it up by putting in a great round 9 where he reverted back to his combinations, stiff jab and dictated the pacing and distance for the entire round keeping the fight in the centre of the ring for the whole round.

Angulo had 1 round where he looked competitive and that's because Alvarez let him and then went back to being dominated in the next round. He was not coming into the fight.

The entire fight was fought on Alvarez's terms even when Angulo started to back up Canelo about 4/5 rounds in IIRC he was still doing nothing effective offensively, everything was being rolled, slipped, parried or blocked he landed hardly anything clean and nothing anywhere close to troubling Alvarez. I don't want to hear we'll never know what would've happened because we all know exactly what would've happened if Angulo was allowed to continue fighting the way he did Weeks and Hunter were concerned from the opening rounds and rightfully so.


----------



## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> How am I making a fool out of myself by stating facts about the norm of stoppages? Again, Chavez Jr. took equally severe punishment, was even less competitive leading up to the 12th, and the fight wasn't stopped. Margarito was not stopped despite taking clean blow after clean blow from Cotto. Clearly you don't understand that the standard, the norm, is different to what Weeks did tonight.


No disrespect but your position here is just butthurt talking, you got one wrong, own it and move on. It wasn't a "bad stoppage", Angulo wasn't "coming on", Canelo wasn't "fading"...that's shit people viewing the fight through skewed eyes are trying to tell themselves, but simply not true. Canelo beat the fuck out of Angulo from the opening bell until the stoppage.


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

Reppin501 said:


> No disrespect but your position here is just butthurt talking, you got one wrong, own it and move on. It wasn't a "bad stoppage", Angulo wasn't "coming on", Canelo wasn't "fading"...that's shit people viewing the fight through skewed eyes are trying to tell themselves, but simply not true. Canelo beat the fuck out of Angulo from the opening bell until the stoppage.


Haha, best bit is the butthurt Angulo fans trying to mask the embarrassing defeat Canelo handed to Angulo and to their fight pick with the stoppage that did more good to Angulo than bad.

B... b... Angulo was winning the fight yo! :lol:

TKO10


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Reppin501 said:


> No disrespect but your position here is just butthurt talking, you got one wrong, own it and move on. It wasn't a "bad stoppage", Angulo wasn't "coming on", Canelo wasn't "fading"...that's shit people viewing the fight through skewed eyes are trying to tell themselves, but simply not true. Canelo beat the fuck out of Angulo from the opening bell until the stoppage.


Nobody here is butthurt. The stoppage was shit. I already said Canelo probably had enough to win, it has less to do with who won and more to do with the fact the fight simply shouldn't have been stopped. Angulo was absolutely coming on, I just re-watched the rounds, nothing skewed about it. Canelo was winning and beating the shit out of Angulo, doesn't mean the stoppage was right.



BigBone said:


> Haha, best bit is the butthurt Angulo fans trying to mask the embarrassing defeat Canelo handed to Angulo and to their fight pick with the stoppage that did more good to Angulo than bad.
> 
> B... b... Angulo was winning the fight yo! :lol:
> 
> TKO10


Who said Angulo was winning the fight? At this point you're just a troll.


----------



## Iron Chin (Jul 31, 2013)

Come on man, take your lumps about this one and move on. When you try to pass your fan fiction off as etched in stone fact this is what is going to happen when you're wrong.


----------



## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

BigBone said:


> Angulo wasn't able to comply with boxing rule no1: protect yourself at all times.
> 
> END OF FUCKING STORY.


:lol: Angulo couldn't protect himself the moment the first bell rang. Guess the ref should have stepped in then, huh.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Ivan Drago said:


> To be honest I don't think Angulo was having more 'success' in the second half of the fight, he definitely wasn't coming into it.
> 
> He nicked round 8 because Alvarez allowed him to get in some offense by dropping his output and not moving off the ropes the way he had been. It had nothing to do with what Angulo was doing. Stamina? Bravado? Who knows but even then it almost seemed like he looked more impressive losing the round than Angulo did winning it the way he rolled and slipped Angulo's shots whilst on the ropes and taunted his best work i.e looking away disinterested while Angulo tried to land bombs. The crowd were eating it up. You could make an argument that Canelo won the round as defense is a scoring criteria and he showed some brilliant defense in that round. He then followed it up by putting in a great round 9 where he reverted back to his combinations, stiff jab and dictated the pacing and distance for the entire round keeping the fight in the centre of the ring for the whole round.
> 
> ...


I didn't agree with the stoppage neither, but i agree 100% with your post.

Angulo was getting his ass kicked the entire fight, i honestly couldn't see him doing anything to turn the fight around in those last rounds, had the ref not stepped in.


----------



## Pimp C (Jun 3, 2013)

I have no idea why people thought Angulo would beat Canelo? It was an easy fight to predict and I was spot on. Canelo beat the shit outta Angulo too good too much speed and Angulo is a punching bag and slow.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Pimp C said:


> I have no idea why people thought Angulo would beat Canelo? It was an easy fight to predict and I was spot on. Canelo beat the shit outta Angulo too good too much speed and Angulo is a punching bag and slow.


Especially after Floyd called Canelo a "different breed"

Not many guys Floyd has praised like that


----------



## Pimp C (Jun 3, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Especially after Floyd called Canelo a "different breed"
> 
> Not many guys Floyd has praised like that


Canelo is a good fighter he has skills. He got a boxing lesson by the best boxer in the world but so does everyone else but Canelo IMO didn't embarrass himself against PBF. He looks to have his confidence back and has bounced back in an impressive win.


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> I didn't agree with the stoppage neither, but i agree 100% with your post.
> 
> Angulo was getting his ass kicked the entire fight, i honestly couldn't see him doing anything to turn the fight around in those last rounds, had the ref not stepped in.


I have no qualms with the stoppage my natural reaction was surprise and I thought it was premature but on reflection when you watch him take the flush shots he took over 9 rounds and think back to Magomed and see the concern Weeks, Hunter and the doctor were showing throughout the whole fight, coupled with the fact Angulo was doing nothing to try and limit the punishment he was taking can we blame Weeks?

He doesn't know what kind of internal, potentially long term damage Angulo may be sustaining and he made sure to consult with the Doctor and Hunter throughout the fight it wasn't like he just reacted to a big shot. It was a carefully considered stoppage, perhaps early in the eyes of some, but a fighters health is paramount for the referee and Angulo gets to go home to his daughter with, hopefully, only superficial injuries.


----------



## Carpe Diem (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> That Canelo was impressive, Angulo looked lethargic, and it was a bad stoppage. Angulo started coming on later than I thought, but he was indeed. I'd guess Canelo had enough to win the fight, but we'll never know, and Angulo was definitely coming on, not looking tired while Canelo's output was dropping.


Angulo was coming on, but he couldn't hurt Canelo and there was nothing that suggests that it would've happened in the next two rounds. The stoppage was a bit premature, but Angulo wasn't doing anything effective to let the fight go on. As others have stated, Canelo knows how to fight back when he's tired, and he showed at times when he got a bit winded and still remained focus enough to landed the harder shots on Angulo. Overall, Canelo did a lot of things that i predicted he would. At times, he rolled with some of Angulo's punches when he was on the ropes, and he landed some solid counter-combination.


----------



## LuckyLuke (Jun 6, 2013)

Pimp C said:


> Canelo is a good fighter he has skills. He got a boxing lesson by the best boxer in the world but so does everyone else but Canelo IMO didn't embarrass himself against PBF. He looks to have his confidence back and has bounced back in an impressive win.


Angulo is not an impressive win. His best wins are now Trout and Angulo. Thats means he is a top 8 p4p fighter now. GBP bias style.


----------



## Pimp C (Jun 3, 2013)

LuckyLuke said:


> Angulo is not an impressive win. His best wins are now Trout and Angulo. Thats means he is a top 8 p4p fighter now. GBP bias style.


He's not a top 10 P4P boxer I never said he was. It was an impressive demolition job and comeback win for Canelo.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> No I fucking didn't you stupid cunt. I said I wanted him to lose. I did not predict Angulo to win.


chill out with the insults. You don't want to piss me off. And you didn't actually pick anybody to win, but based off your posts, what do they seem to imply?

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...going-to-win&p=1036597&viewfull=1#post1036597


----------



## Vino Veritas (May 17, 2013)

I'm gonna have to watch this fight again as I didn't see Canelo dominating the entire fight as some people are saying he had.

He bashed Angulo over the first couple of rounds. As he was slowly getting backed up over the next few his output diminished and he didn't do much to win a round thru 6-8. He had his best round in quite a while in 9 and then managed a couple of nice shots in 10 to have it waved off. Canelo spent far too much time in that fight getting backed up given that Angulo almost exclusively threw arm punches.


----------



## DaCrooked (Jun 6, 2013)

Pimp C said:


> I have no idea why people thought Angulo would beat Canelo? It was an easy fight to predict and I was spot on. Canelo beat the shit outta Angulo too good too much speed and Angulo is a punching bag and slow.


Come on Pimp. We know why idiots picked Angulo. PBF schooled Canelo and made it look easy. Some fools would rather poke their eyes out then acknowledge Floyd's skill and greatness so they convinced themselves that "oh Canelo must not be that good since Floyd dominated him" When are they going to learn that that she slow ass mexican heavy bags like Margarito and Angulo lose badly to skilled boxers.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Vino Veritas said:


> I'm gonna have to watch this fight again as I didn't see Canelo dominating the entire fight as some people are saying he had.
> 
> He bashed Angulo over the first couple of rounds. As he was slowly getting backed up over the next few his output diminished and he didn't do much to win a round thru 6-8. He had his best round in quite a while in 9 and then managed a couple of nice shots in 10 to have it waved off. Canelo spent far too much time in that fight getting backed up given that Angulo almost exclusively threw arm punches.


naw Canelo dominated the whole fight. Even when he was taking breathers, he would still avoid almost everything Angulo threw and would come back and land very heavy shots of his own.


----------



## Pimp C (Jun 3, 2013)

DaCrooked said:


> Come on Pimp. We know why idiots picked Angulo. PBF schooled Canelo and made it look easy. Some fools would rather poke their eyes out then acknowledge Floyd's skill and greatness so they convinced themselves that "oh Canelo must not be that good since Floyd dominated him" When are they going to learn that that she slow ass mexican heavy bags like Margarito and Angulo lose badly to skilled boxers.


:yep


----------



## Vino Veritas (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> naw Canelo dominated the whole fight. Even when he was taking breathers, he would still avoid almost everything Angulo threw and would come back and land very heavy shots of his own.


I just watched it again and agree with you. Canelo was landing quality shots with nothing of note landing from Angulo. Very good performance from Canelo.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Vino Veritas said:


> I just watched it again and agree with you. Canelo was landing quality shots with nothing of note landing from Angulo. Very good performance from Canelo.


:thumbsup I could see why you may think Angulo was coming on though when watching it live and amped up. I just thought Canelo was never in any trouble though


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Pimp C said:


> He's not a top 10 P4P boxer I never said he was. It was an impressive demolition job and comeback win for Canelo.


agreed. i thought canelo looked very good and couldve done well against any of the 154s last night

he and gbp really need to stop with this compromised opponents crap if they dont want the continued criticism

trout had no problem fighting lara

molina had no problem fighting lara and kirkland

vanes had no problem fighting lara and andrade

ffs, if canelos good enough to fight live competition be done with it already
theres andrade, lara, molina, vanes, james, charo...all guys in their prime


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

Ivan Drago said:


> I just can't see Angulo bringing constant pressure the whole fight. His defence is just too leaky and he'll get hit way to much coming in that he's gonna have to make adjustments.
> 
> Either he does and wethers the storm until the late rounds where he can revert back to his style and capatilise on Canelo's stamina issues or he doesn't and gets stopped in the first 7 rounds.
> 
> ...





Ivan Drago said:


> He threw in higher volume but rarely, and with little effect, to the body which Alvarez will do. The power is hard to judge but Alvarez certainly has a harder jab and will be throwing 3-4 hard shots where Lara was throwing a jab or two followed by a hard straight left or a quick right hook without much snap in it which was used to pivot away, he also occasionally mixed in an uppercut which didn't seem to land much. I also think they will get involved in more exchanges because of Canelo's poor movement which will take out more than readjusting and cutting off the ring again.
> 
> I don't think his stamina is as bad as people make out and I think he'll stop it before that happens.
> 
> ...


What I predicted would happen. Stuff in green I feel I got right, the stuff in red I was wrong about.


----------



## Pork N Chili (Jun 3, 2013)

Pork N Chili said:


> While I'm taking the risk of picking Angulo to stop Alvarez, *I just got to thinking: what if Alvarez doesn't try and outbox Angulo like people are thinking. Then I realized, "Oh shit, he might try to push Angulo back and make Angulo fight off the back foot."* While it might seem unlikely (mostly because Angulo is probably stronger than Canelo) Cintron and Kirkland were successful against Angulo by pushing him back and forcing him to fight on the back foot. This, to me, seems like Canelo's best chance at beating up Angulo.


----------



## ATrillionaire (Jun 11, 2013)

ATrillionaire said:


> Canelo wins easy.


----------



## Setanta (May 24, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> What, because he beat Angulo? Wow, that's a talrnt affirmer right there.


No, Flea, he was a good fighter BEFORE he blanked Alfie as well as AFTER.


----------



## Setanta (May 24, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah and I think Kirkland is the only guy who could pull it off at 154, but he can't take the punch like Angulo.
> 
> Lara should be able to get in and out with his footwork and pinpoint counters though on Canelo


If Lara gets hurt like he did twice against the slower Angulo, Canelo will finish him off rather quickly.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Setanta said:


> If Lara gets hurt like he did twice against the slower Angulo, Canelo will finish him off rather quickly.


I think Lara will be able to use his legs to stay alive if that was to happen. He recovered very well when Angulo dropped him


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

This is what sucks... (For me)
Seeing 2 of your favs go at it & one takes such a pummeling as did Angulo.
Had "El Perro" lost a 12rd match on points like most anticipated shit would have been cool
But "Canelo" decided to turn up the heat & truly punished Alfredo for 9.? Rds.

As much as I'd like to see Angulo back inside the ring, Not sure it's the best idea maybe it's time Angulo goes w/his gut & calls it a career like was initially going to post the Lara fight.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Angulo was getting severely beaten, he wasn't going to come back. Canelo had more pop and more fresh at the time of the stoppage. I thought the stoppage was alright for Virgil was about to stop the fight himself.

As i was watching the fight i thought a corner stoppage was going to end the fight.


----------



## Setanta (May 24, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> That Canelo was impressive, Angulo looked lethargic, and it was a bad stoppage. Angulo started coming on later than I thought, but he was indeed. I'd guess Canelo had enough to win the fight, but we'll never know, and Angulo was definitely coming on, not looking tired while Canelo's output was dropping.


I think you were watching a different fight, Bog.

I gave Canelo every round. Rewatching 8, I could see a case for giving Alfredo that one round, He was aggressive, but Canelo was in complete control, he let him land a few smacks while he was almost saying to himself, "that's it, that's tha big punches I been hearing so much about ?" During Angulo's 'onlaught' Canelo looked distracted, looked at somebody in the crowd, was about to start a conversation, but thought, "later, I have to deal with this guy first."

And then he came off the ropes and did more damage with a smaller number of much harder punches than Alfredo's entire flurry.

If you were looking for a sympathy round, this was it. No other round was remotely close.

Round 9 was again one-sided, and in the opening half minute of the 10th, Canelo was rocking Angulo with head-snapping shots, the final one of which was too much for Tony Weeks.

Magomed Abdusalamov is sitting in a hospital right now, waiting for a nurse to come and help him piss, and wishing that his fight had been stopped.

The stoppage was good. Angulo could continue but why ?

He had no chance of winning. His best shots had little effect on Canelo and his shots were getting more pathetic.

"We'll never know ?"

The only thing we'll never know is whether we were going to get a full KO, a corner stoppage or a fucked-uo Angulo dragging his assover the finish line.

And we 'll never know what neurological damage might have been inflicted over those last eight minutes.

Watch it again, even if it's only from round 6 on, Bog.


----------



## Setanta (May 24, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I think Lara will be able to use his legs to stay alive if that was to happen. He recovered very well when Angulo dropped him


Maybe, but as I mentioned earlier in this thread and BEFORE last night's fight, Canelo hits harder than Angulo, especially at close range.

I don't see any 154 lber who gets as hurt as Lara was in his Angulo fight, surviving against Canelo.


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

Like this man....

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?37625-Canelo-Angulo-GIFs-(heavy-load)


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Setanta said:


> I think you were watching a different fight, Bog.
> 
> I gave Canelo every round. Rewatching 8, I could see a case for giving Alfredo that one round, He was aggressive, but Canelo was in complete control, he let him land a few smacks while he was almost saying to himself, "that's it, that's tha big punches I been hearing so much about ?" During Angulo's 'onlaught' Canelo looked distracted, looked at somebody in the crowd, was about to start a conversation, but thought, "later, I have to deal with this guy first."
> 
> ...


I wasn't watching a different fight, Canelo did win every round, I never contested that.

8 was very competitive. That moment against the ropes was Canelo clowning, but he wasn't throwing back. He did land harder when he threw back, but Angulo's follow up to the body and head a minute later were serious shots landed. 9 was Canelo's but in lower volume.

Really baffles my why people keep bringing up Mogamed, the dude claimed he couldn't see out of an otherwise unperturbed eye and pain in his leg, getting stunned numerous times in the fight, and ended up having a fractured skull. Completely different scenario.

If a fighter can still compete and hasn't been hurt, I find it hard to justify stopping it, particularly where Weeks did. But it's his discretion and I respect that, he was there up close.


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

TKO10


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

Anyone else not really concerned about an Alvarez/Lara fight??
I respect Erislandy's skillset & even enjoy watching him fight hell I even gave/give him props in a Vs. Mayweather thread & said I think "his style" could trouble Floyd's for a couple Rds maybe even win some... That said.

He seems too fragile & I don't see him being able to stay on his feet & move all night long.
A good body attack & smart aggressive pressure I say Saul takes him.
(Not too concerned about Lara's firepower)

I know the popular thing to say is Lara will "School" Canelo Alvarez, But Erislandy is not Rigo.
Anyway back to the program.


----------



## Setanta (May 24, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I wasn't watching a different fight, Canelo did win every round, I never contested that.
> 
> 8 was very competitive. That moment against the ropes was Canelo clowning, but he wasn't throwing back. He did land harder when he threw back, but Angulo's follow up to the body and head a minute later were serious shots landed. 9 was Canelo's but in lower volume.
> 
> ...


Angulo was certainly capable of continuing, but he was taking a lot of punishment, so what would have been the point ? He wasn't going to turn things around and there was every chance he would have been stopped on some other count shortly after.

Finally, his corner had just told him that he was contemplating stopping the fight.

Mago was not apparently hurt and was answering back right toill the end. In fact, the last two rounds of his fight were more competitive than most of Angulos.

So Weeks might well have considered the cumulative effect of the blows Canelo was landing.

IMO, this stoppage was well within the bounds of legitimacy.


----------



## Setanta (May 24, 2013)

Hatesrats said:


> Anyone else not really concerned about an Alvarez/Lara fight??
> I respect Erislandy's skillset & even enjoy watching him fight hell I even gave/give him props in a Vs. Mayweather thread & said I think "his style" could trouble Floyd's for a couple Rds maybe even win some... That said.
> 
> He seems too fragile & I don't see him being able to stay on his feet & move all night long.
> ...


I think Canelo has this and I don't see anyone at 154 to trouble him.

160 is where he should shortly be looking and there are interesting matchups for him there.


----------

