# Dan Rafael: GGG-Canelo held up by disagreement on Split/Fee (UPDATE: Talks have resumed, % favored)



## LiL Boosie (Feb 9, 2014)

> Alvarez (48-1-1), 26, dropped down to junior middleweight in September and knocked out Liam Smith in the ninth round to win another title. Alvarez suffered an avulsion fracture in his right thumb, forcing him to give up a Dec. 10 date for his next fight. Now he and Golden Boy are talking about a possible February bout, although it is more likely he will just sit out until a May 6 fight, whomever it is against.
> 
> If he wins that bout Gomez said the hope is that the long-awaited showdown with Golovkin will take place in September. Gomez said Golden Boy and Golovkin promoter Tom Loeffler of K2 Promotions have been talking about a deal, but that the biggest obstacle is Golden Boy's insistence on paying Golovkin's side a flat fee -- at least $15 million -- while Golovkin's side wants to have a stake, as much as 40 percent, in the event.


http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/story/...-chavez-jr-talking-cinco-de-mayo-weekend-bout


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

70-30 or 75-25 is fair IMO. Golovkin is the middleweight champion and Canelo is the current cash king.


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## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

Wish GGG had just taken the offer.


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## LiL Boosie (Feb 9, 2014)

Honestly think the ggg-Jacobs ppv sales will hurt ggg in negotiations when it does just 150k ppv buys


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I dont really care what they get paid but tbf GBP are being greedy fucks. They know how much the fight will make are are trying to undercut Golovkin. Problem is as she is wb last fight Canelo isnt a draw on his own, he needs good opponents to get good numbers so they are just screwing themselves over and the fans by putting poor offers in. Sit down and negotiate properly and this can be made in an afternoon.


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## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

Reminds me of how Floyd offered Pac 40 million.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Did you guys notice there's no real source in that article?

"Middleweight champion Gennady “GGG” Golovkin is said to have been....:" Is said to have been? Said by...someone from GBP perhaps?

That is a rather substantial offer. Hopefully this doesn't come back to bite them in the butt, if they wait out for a 40% cut. Still haven't heard what the purses are for the Danny Jacob's fight in NY.


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## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

LiL Boosie said:


> Honestly think the ggg-Jacobs ppv sales will hurt ggg in negotiations when it does just 150k ppv buys


Doesn't help Canelo's case when he's getting however much above 200k. Nobody's pulling in big ppv numbers so to act like only Golovkin didn't do well is stretching it.

And I take whatever GBP says with a grain of salt. They've been all over the fucking place with what they've been saying for the past year so I'm not too inclined to believe much of what they say.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Chatty said:


> I dont really care what they get paid but tbf GBP are being greedy fucks. They know how much the fight will make are are trying to undercut Golovkin. Problem is as she is wb last fight Canelo isnt a draw on his own, he needs good opponents to get good numbers so they are just screwing themselves over and the fans by putting poor offers in. Sit down and negotiate properly and this can be made in an afternoon.


You make a good point. While Alvarez is probably the biggest cash cow today, he still needs an attractive dance partner to really sell a fight. There aren't any more Cotto's or Mayweather's to help sell big numbers. The only way Alvarez gets close to those numbers he did with FM and MC, would be to face Manny Pac. And that ain't happening.

Another thing to ponder. Would Canelo be fine fighting in a division and NOT be the champ? Think he'll be fine with playing second fiddle to the strat with all the belts? I don;t think so. Not with the ego's fighters have about being the best. I don't know if people realize how important a factor that can be.


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## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

DynamicMoves said:


> Reminds me of how Floyd offered Pac 40 million.


Except GGG is not Pacquiao. Pac was a 1million PPV buys type of fighter as the A-side. GGG did 97k in his PPV.


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## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

I honestly don't care who the cash cow is. This is a 50/50 fight.


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

So, if this show will supposedly make $100m, how much should the main event be worth, and how much for the undercard? Would Golovkin really be getting much more than $15m if he demands a 40% split? Sounds like a lot of money, but maybe I'm underestimating Canelo's pulling power


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## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> Except GGG is not Pacquiao. Pac was a 1million PPV buys type of fighter as the A-side. *GGG did 97k in his PPV*.


Can people stop quoting this false number already?


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## LiL Boosie (Feb 9, 2014)

Btw

Canelo got 5 Mil for Floyd and Cotto...

He knew he had to sacrifice

GGG should do same

He is not the draw here


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

LiL Boosie said:


> Btw
> 
> Canelo got 5 Mil for Floyd and Cotto...
> 
> ...


ELCHICANO,

I agree, still Tom is probably gonna try to get as much as possible. I'm guessing that at the end of the day they'll take the 15 mil if that's all Oskee will give them.


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## LiL Boosie (Feb 9, 2014)

GGG vs Canelo is not a 1 Mil ppv sell fight

Probably 500-600K around there

15 Mil is a good amount

Canelo is 4 or 5x a bigger name then ggg

Anyways the fight will happen

But K2 needs to understand they are a clear b side

They need to stop with the 40% bs

If they want a split 25% or 30 at the most


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Take the damn money


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

I am neither pro GGG nor pro Canelo in the drama surrounding their possible fight but Canelo IS the draw out of those 2. Golovkin is mostly popular among hardcore fans. I am also not sure that Golovkin would really make that much more with a % but maybe I udnerestimate how big the fight would be :conf


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> I am neither pro GGG nor pro Canelo in the drama surrounding their possible fight but Canelo IS the draw out of those 2. Golovkin is mostly popular among hardcore fans. I am also not sure that Golovkin would really make that much more with a % but maybe I udnerestimate how big the fight would be :conf


Exactly how I see it. Canelo has proven to be at least twice the draw GGG is. How big do people think this fight is?


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## LiL Boosie (Feb 9, 2014)

Probably do around 600k ppb buys like Canelo did vs Khan

GGG is popular among hardcore fans but to say he is a star? No way

Just take the money


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Golly should have taken the money.


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## wow_junky (Jun 21, 2012)

GGG is fighting Jacobs next, can guarantee he is a significantly better opponent than Canelo has lined up, so it's no wonder GBP have circulated this rumour to start up the GGG criticisim again


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

I tried finding a legitimate source and couldn't find one. This is basically just a rumor with no foundation. One of the articles cites Dan Rafael but he hasn't posted anything about it, so I'm calling BS. Sorry OP.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

MOD Edit:



> Alvarez (48-1-1), 26, dropped down to junior middleweight in September and knocked out Liam Smith in the ninth round to win another title. Alvarez suffered an avulsion fracture in his right thumb, forcing him to give up a Dec. 10 date for his next fight. Now he and Golden Boy are talking about a possible February bout, although it is more likely he will just sit out until a May 6 fight, whomever it is against.
> 
> If he wins that bout Gomez said the hope is that the long-awaited showdown with Golovkin will take place in September. Gomez said Golden Boy and Golovkin promoter Tom Loeffler of K2 Promotions have been talking about a deal, but that the biggest obstacle is Golden Boy's insistence on paying Golovkin's side a flat fee -- at least $15 million -- while Golovkin's side wants to have a stake, as much as 40 percent, in the event.


http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/story/...-chavez-jr-talking-cinco-de-mayo-weekend-bout


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

GGG is out of pocket. He's not worth 40%. Plus 15 million may be more than 40% of the pot of money they're splitting anyways.


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## Rigondeaux (Jun 3, 2013)

I disagree with Bball. GGG is worth the 40%, because this is the biggest fight in boxing and they need each other to make it. 60/40 is reasonable in my opinion. They are taking the B side but let's not disrespect the man.


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## Rigondeaux (Jun 3, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> GGG is out of pocket. He's not worth 40%. Plus 15 million may be more than 40% of the pot of money they're splitting anyways.


If 15 mil was more then goldenboy wouldn't be offering it.


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## Rigondeaux (Jun 3, 2013)

kind of like when Floyd offered Manny 40 mil flat rate. you just don't do that for these huge fights. They need each other to take home more than they have ever before.


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Canelo needs this fight bad he is mocked fight after fight. Many casuals know GGG AND that Alvarez is a fraud. The negotiation hold up is never a good look in a manly sport.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Agree with bball, for 40% to be greater than $15m means they expect the gross to be more than $37.5m. I can't see this making $30-40m.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Rigondeaux said:


> I disagree with Bball. GGG is worth the 40%, because this is the biggest fight in boxing and they need each other to make it. 60/40 is reasonable in my opinion. They are taking the B side but let's not disrespect the man.


He should get 50/50 then because fuck it


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Rigondeaux said:


> If 15 mil was more then goldenboy wouldn't be offering it.


Promoters miscalculate how much their fights are worth all the time. They've been doing it all year


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2016)

I don't see how after costs the fight generates $37,500,000 in profit.


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## stevebhoy87 (Jun 4, 2013)

If this ends up being the best deal on the table when the time comes to make the fight, then I'd hope GGG would take it. Yeah the fight will do big number and I think if he gets a percentage deal he will make more, but this is the fight Golovkin has to make for his legacy, and if he's leaves some money on the table for me he should, to get it done and back yourself to win.

With that said the fight is aiming to be made for September, GGG position could be far stronger to negotiate come that point. I wouldn't agree that deal if I was his team this far out with that many potential variables before it happens.


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## Kush (May 24, 2013)

GGGreed better take it


$15 mil is way too much for him


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

He's not getting a 40% split vs Canelo in negotiations IMO. If that's the lowest he'll go and is set on a percentage instead of flat rate he should just say it, say GBP won't budge on the split and move on as the fight will never happen. Also don't see how the fight makes much more than $37.5m, so he's really going to be getting near the split he's requesting with the flat fee, without the risk.


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## One to watch (Jun 5, 2013)

What is wIth all the anti golovkin shit on here?


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## nvs (May 16, 2013)

I would take the 15mil, KO Canelo and get way more in the rematch leaving crumbs to Canelo.


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## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

GGG needs to get that last belt from BJS.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Guys, there is no source. ESB is not a real source, especially when the article doesn't name one. Unless you can quote a credible source like boxingscene, espn, or post an interview with a direct quote, these random headlines from BS sites don't count.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Update: Real sources

http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/...-chavez-jr-talking-cinco-de-mayo-weekend-bout


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

I forgot how to merge threads so for now I'll keep both open now that I have a real source.


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## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

So I don't know or care about the business side, but I would assume 15 million would be more than 40% in this recent climate of boxing.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

The cable company always takes about 50% of the ppv revenue. The card would be priced around $60 to $70 for HD. 

$15,000,000/40% = 37,500,000. 

That 37.5 mill is how much the 2 fighters are splitting. That'd require the ppv to generate $75,000,000. Dividing that by an average price of $65 per buy, that'd be about 1.15 million ppv buys. 

So who expects this fight to reach that amount?


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> The cable company always takes about 50% of the ppv revenue. The card would be priced around $60 to $70 for HD.
> 
> $15,000,000/40% = 37,500,000.
> 
> ...


Damn anti GGG accountant breaking shit down so the flat fee makes sense. :handofbogo


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## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

Not gonna blame a grown man for wanting a chance at more money. I think he should take it and build his legacy, but to honest I can't think of any other good names for him at 160 that would make him more money on ppv. So....Either way he is a little fucked.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> The cable company always takes about 50% of the ppv revenue. The card would be priced around $60 to $70 for HD.
> 
> $15,000,000/40% = 37,500,000.
> 
> ...


I think it might crack a million. But that's the best case scenario and according to your numbers that's the equivalent of the percentage GGG is asking for.

The average opponent for Floyd got 5-10 million. Cotto, the 3rd biggest draw in the sport at the time, got an 8 million guarantee plus PPV upside. He made 15 million fighting Canelo and GGG is being offered the same thing despite not having as strong a PPV history. I think a 15 million flat fee is perfectly fair to Golovkin. I think since 40% probably matches that then that's also a reasonable offer but should be prepared to settle for 35%.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> *The cable company always takes about 50% of the ppv revenue. *The card would be priced around $60 to $70 for HD.
> 
> $15,000,000/40% = 37,500,000.
> 
> ...


as usual when you are talking your hate towards golovkin you are wrong

golovkin and canelo will split close to 60 percent of the ppv

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/mayweather-vs-pacquiao-purse-salaries-ppv-revenue/

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/highest-grossing-boxing-ppv-fights-of-all-times/

if they do 75mm the split is 45 million at 60 percent. basic math by a person without an accounting degree will see that a flat 15mm offer is 33 percent...ppv

then there is the gate and closed circuit which could do over 15mm minus the mgm rental

http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/9694996/floyd-mayweather-canelo-alvarez-top-grossing-ppv-fight

a 40 percent cut could easily be a conservative 22mm for golovkin, roughly 7mm more(50 percent) than the 15mm that canelo is offering and more like 25 million.

you will be doing a disservice to clients as an accounant if you are pulling numbers out of your ass

lmfao you leaving out the gate and cc like it doesnt exist


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Damn anti GGG accountant breaking shit down so the flat fee makes sense. :handofbogo


it only makes sense to idiots that know nothing about how the finance of a fight like golovkin/canelo gets split and will agree with any idiot who suits their agenda


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> as usual when you are talking your hate towards golovkin you are wrong
> 
> golovkin and canelo will split close to 60 percent of the ppv
> 
> ...


You should learn to disagree with someone without sounding like a total cock.

"Woah you were 10% off I can tell you're going to suck at your profession based on the lazy calculations you made on a boxing forum" shut the hell up.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> You should learn to disagree with someone without sounding like a total cock.
> 
> "Woah you were 10% off I can tell you're going to suck at your profession based on the lazy calculations you made on a boxing forum" shut the hell up.


rofl

what does 10 percent have to do with golovkin making 22-25mm as opposed to 15mm as i illustrated in the breakdown?

to some people it would appear that you are trying to discount the discrepancy by mentioning 10 percent when the difference is actually 50 percent of the 15mm offer

this fuken forum...


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> The cable company always takes about 50% of the ppv revenue. The card would be priced around $60 to $70 for HD.
> 
> $15,000,000/40% = 37,500,000.
> 
> ...


You're leaving out ticket sales, in a venue that will surely be standing room only.

You're also leaving out licensing rights, to Sky, BoxNation, or whomever. Even with a rebroadcast, there is a fee, I'm sure.

With Pac- Mayweather, all this extra income was estimated at over 133 million. (on top of the PPV revenue) There's no reason why Golovkin- Alvarez shouldn't do something similar or at least close.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> rofl
> 
> what does 10 percent have to do with golovkin making 22-25mm as opposed to 15mm as i illustrated in the breakdown?
> 
> ...


It's called acting like a grown man. Disagree without smearing other posters. You're nobody to talk down to people.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> You should learn to disagree with someone without sounding like a total cock.
> 
> "*Woah you were 10% off I can tell you're going to suck at your profession* based on the lazy calculations you made on a boxing forum" shut the hell up.


you are correct here

an accountant would absolutely 100 percent suck at their profession if their client lost 50 percent of their income

borderline gross negligence


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> you are correct here
> 
> an accountant would absolutely 100 percent suck at their profession if their client lost 50 percent of their income
> 
> borderline gross negligence


I'm not saying it, notice the quotes, I'm satirizing your idiotic comment, as if someone posting on a forum is taking it with professional seriousness. It's a stupid dick thing to say on your part.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I'm not saying it, notice the quotes, I'm satirizing your idiotic comment, as if someone posting on a forum is taking it with professional seriousness. It's a stupid dick thing to say on your part.


well that would be all fine and dandy if someone like pitythefool or tommygun made the miscalculation but since it was the broken record bballchump along with his hateful pac/golovkin agenda i took it as trolling on his part and had no problem posting accordingly


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> well that would be all fine and dandy if someone like pitythefool or tommygun made the miscalculation but since it was the broken record bballchump along with his hateful pac/golovkin agenda i took it as trolling on his part and had no problem posting accordingly


Bball is no troll, you just can't disagree with someone without painting them as such. Not wasting anymore space in this thread on this convo.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Bball is no troll, you just can't disagree with someone without painting them as such. Not wasting anymore space in this thread on this convo.


hahaha!!

there are numerous people here, or at least who used to post here, that have commented on bballchumps blatant hate for paq and golovkin...probably a very good reason why nobody is here anymore. are you really that clueless bogatozo?

ffs, there wasnt even a rbr for the hopkins fight on the wbf, your forum, when there was one on the british forum


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

quincy k said:


> hahaha!!
> 
> there are numerous people here, or at least who used to post here, that have commented on bballchumps blatant hate for paq and golovkin...probably a very good reason why nobody is here anymore. are you really that clueless bogatozo?
> 
> ffs, there wasnt even a rbr for the hopkins fight on the wbf, your forum, when there was one on the british forum


Those glass jawed Brits know they'll get it here on the WBF, so they hide in the crumpet forum.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Is at @Doc banned?


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## church11 (Jun 6, 2013)

Whatever man. 15 million puts him in the ballpark. He may be undercut a bit here, BUT if he's so confident and so tired of people "ducking/running" from him, he might as well take it, beat the current cash cow in boxing and become the new cash cow. 

Holding out for a few million more isn't going to do wonders for his reputation or for his zest to lure Canelo/land big fights. His last ppv #s don't hold up for shit against the #s Canelo puts up.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

I dont know how valid the claims are but it sounds like progress atleast. Im optimistic as we are supposedly arrived at this offer already and theres still plenty of time to get a good deal together signed by the pencilled in date. One side will crack eventually.

Its a mutually beneficial fight both fighters almost need each other


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

If I were him I'd probably take it


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## McKay (Jun 6, 2012)

I'm a bit behind at the moment. Is this an offer for after the Jacobs fight or is that now off?


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

McKay said:


> I'm a bit behind at the moment. Is this an offer for after the Jacobs fight or is that now off?


After


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

church11 said:


> Whatever man. 15 million puts him in the ballpark. He may be undercut a bit here, BUT if he's so confident and so tired of people "ducking/running" from him, he might as well take it, beat the current cash cow in boxing and become the new cash cow.
> 
> Holding out for a few million more isn't going to do wonders for his reputation or for his zest to lure Canelo/land big fights. His last ppv #s don't hold up for shit against the #s Canelo puts up.


I'm not him, but I do want him to speculate to accumulate. He's not getting any younger, he needs the big fights fairly soon, Canelo opens a hell of a lot of doors for him. $15 mil might not be exactly 40%, but surely it won't be far off, and it's life-changing money. What's the difference between $15m and $18m really?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> as usual when you are talking your hate towards golovkin you are wrong
> 
> golovkin and canelo will split close to 60 percent of the ppv
> 
> ...


Wrong. They always take 50%. Mayweather vs Pacquiao negotiated to get an extra portion of the revenue. I'm on my phone, so I can't go into detail. Just look up the numbers for every other fight


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> You're leaving out ticket sales, in a venue that will surely be standing room only.
> 
> You're also leaving out licensing rights, to Sky, BoxNation, or whomever. Even with a rebroadcast, there is a fee, I'm sure.
> 
> With Pac- Mayweather, all this extra income was estimated at over 133 million. (on top of the PPV revenue) There's no reason why Golovkin- Alvarez should do something similar or at least close.


You're leaving out the fact that GGG and Canelo aren't the only ones who have to get paid.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Explains it all here. Mayweather vs Pacquiao was a unique fight and they specifically bargained to take a higher percentage of the ppv revenue because of how big the fight was

Edit: my phone is being dumb. Search "
*Mayweather vs Canelo Purse: How Golden Boy Can Afford to Pay Floyd $41.5 Million"*
*On bleacher report.*


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Wrong. They always take 50%. Mayweather vs Pacquiao negotiated to get an extra portion of the revenue. I'm on my phone, so I can't go into detail. Just look up the numbers for every other fight


the networks at 50 percent also pick up all the expenses(advertisign and promotoin)

i also like the fact that you automatically assume that both golovkin and canelo wont negotiate to get an extra portion


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> You're leaving out the fact that GGG and Canelo aren't the only ones who have to get paid.


what does this have to do with the fact that you conveniently left out the gate, cc and other sources of income like foreign rights and merchandise?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> the networks at 50 percent also pick up all the expenses(advertisign and promotoin)
> 
> i also like the fact that you automatically assume that both golovkin and canelo wont negotiate to get an extra portion


Mayweather and Canelo couldn't get more, so what makes you think Canelo and GGG can?

And the promoters spend a lot on promotion. GBP spent about $20 million marketing Mayweather vs Ortiz


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> what does this have to do with the fact that you conveniently left out the gate, cc and other sources of income like foreign rights and merchandise?


I did for simplicity.

They have to pay out large expenses to many people coming from gate, merchandise, ppv, etc. I just used all the money from those other sources to cover expenses and paid the fighters the whole share of ppv revenue that's left over. I'm actually being optimistic.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Didn't we learn our lesson when Pac was offered a flat fee of 40 million by Mayweather and everyone accused him of ducking when he turned it down and then he went on to earn over three times as much as that when the fight eventually was made? 

Even Frampton got more than the flat fee he was initially offered by Hearn. Flat fees are always a disingenuous offer unless someone can provide me with examples to the contrary. If GBP thought for a second that 15 million was more than 40% they wouldn't offer it. Period. That's assuming this is legitimate and not a rumour manafactured by GBP themselves.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Mayweather and Canelo couldn't get more, so what makes you think Canelo and GGG can?
> 
> And the promoters spend a lot on promotion. GBP spent about $20 million marketing Mayweather vs Ortiz


what makes you think that they cant? it is the biggest fight of 2017 and sure as hell gbp has already negotiated this with the networks. you assuming that the 50 percent is set in stone leaves a lot of money on the table


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I did for simplicity.
> 
> They have to pay out large expenses to many people coming from gate, merchandise, ppv, etc. I just used all the money from those other sources to cover expenses and paid the fighters the whole share of ppv revenue that's left over. I'm actually being optimistic.


so the fighters get nothing off the gate and thats why you left it out?

oh my

thats bizarrre if not entirely stupid


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> what makes you think that they cant? it is the biggest fight of 2017 and sure as hell gbp has already negotiated this with the networks. you assuming that the 50 percent is set in stone leaves a lot of money on the table


It's not bigger than Mayweather vs Canelo


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> so the fighters get nothing off the gate and thats why you left it out?
> 
> oh my
> 
> thats bizarrre if not entirely stupid


Profit = revenue - expenses.

Ppv percentages are mostly based off profit. The fighters aren't getting 100% of the money coming through. If you want to estimate how much they'll spend over the fight and subtract that from all of the revenue streams, then go ahead.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> It's not bigger than Mayweather vs Canelo


so because canelo/mayweather is bigger than canelo/golovkin there is no way that there can be a 60/40 split when this has already been done?

thats like saying hbo/showtime fighters cannot make a fight becasue they are on different networks


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> *I did for simplicity.*
> 
> They have to pay out large expenses to many people coming from gate, merchandise, ppv, etc. I just used all the money from those other sources to cover expenses and paid the fighters the whole share of ppv revenue that's left over. I'm actually being optimistic.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/bo...t-Rematch-22m-richest-fight-British-soil.html

the non-ppv revenue was close to 35 percent of the revenue taken in for the froch/groves fight

there is no "simplicity" to that

you left out this substatial revenue and now you are perversely trying to defend why you did so


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Profit = revenue - expenses.
> 
> Ppv percentages are mostly based off profit. The fighters aren't getting 100% of the money coming through. If you want to estimate how much they'll spend over the fight and subtract that from all of the revenue streams, then go ahead.


you left out the gate and other revenue streams

the fact that the fighters arent getting 100 percent is not the argument


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> so because canelo/mayweather is bigger than canelo/golovkin there is no way that there can be a 60/40 split when this has already been done?
> 
> thats like saying hbo/showtime fighters cannot make a fight becasue they are on different networks


It has been done once out of several ppvs. It's not logical to assume that they'd get that kind of deal


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> you left out the gate and other revenue streams
> 
> the fact that the fighters arent getting 100 percent is not the argument


Add all the expenses and all the revenue and tell me what get


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> It has been done once out of several ppvs. It's not logical to assume that they'd get that kind of deal


its not logical to assume that they wont when you are taking millions of dollars at stake


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Add all the expenses and all the revenue and tell me what get


i gave you the simple froch/groves breakdown...you cant figure it out? if the gate was not a signifcant part of a fights revenue, or any sporting event for that matter, then boxing wouldnt exist

again, what does this have do do with you failing to calculate the other revenue streams?


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

HBO charge 7.5% for handling the distribution and advertising of a PPV show.

http://www.boxingscene.com/why-arum-turned-down-hbo-ppv-handle-pacquiao-vargas-himself--110184


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> i gave you the simple froch/groves breakdown...you cant figure it out? if the gate was not a signifcant part of a fights revenue, or any sporting event for that matter, then boxing wouldnt exist
> 
> again, what does this have do do with you failing to calculate the other revenue streams?


The gate isn't nearly as large as ppv revenue. Mayweather vs Canelo had about $20 million gate. The ppv revenue was about $150 million


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> its not logical to assume that they wont when you are taking millions of dollars at stake


Lol OK whatever. Believe what you want


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> The gate isn't nearly as large as ppv revenue. Mayweather vs Canelo had about $20 million gate. The ppv revenue was about $150 million


what does this have to do with the fact that you only calculated the ppv revenue when insinuating that the 15mm offer is the same as 40 percent?

whereas i gave an educated breakdown on how golovkin, using your ppv numbers, could obtain 22mm and more like 25mm...50 percent more than the 15mm offer


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> what does this have to do with the fact that you only calculated the ppv revenue when insinuating that the 15mm offer is the same as 40 percent?
> 
> whereas i gave an educated breakdown on how golovkin, using your ppv numbers, could obtain 22mm and more like 25mm...50 percent more than the 15mm offer


My God. I'm not going to argue with you over my phone. Especially when you're not good at it


----------



## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

And here I was complaining about Archie Moore only getting $800 (yes, $800) to beat Joey Maxim for the undisputed LHW title (whereas Maxim got $100K)


----------



## wow_junky (Jun 21, 2012)

quincy k said:


> what does this have to do with the fact that you only calculated the ppv revenue when insinuating that the 15mm offer is the same as 40 percent?
> 
> whereas i gave an educated breakdown on how golovkin, using your ppv numbers, could obtain 22mm and more like 25mm...50 percent more than the 15mm offer


I think bballchump11 is saying the other revenue will cover all other expenses, so it's not unrealistic to allocate all PPV revenue solely to the fighters. Obviously not 100% accurate but it's not a bad way of looking at it.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

LiL Boosie said:


> Btw
> 
> Canelo got 5 Mil for Floyd and Cotto...
> 
> ...


Bit dof a different situation tbf. Canelo was about 23/24 when he fought Floyd and a loss did no damage whatsoever as he was fully expected to lose and lose wide. Was a bit of a no lose situation whereas Golovkin is 33 and a loss basically ends his career as far as being involved in elite level fights. Thats basically the best payday they are getting cause no one in or around middleweight is a draw or a big name fighter that'll attract mainstream attention. They put their eggs in this basket so are gonna rag it out till they get what they want.

60/40 is fair imo, Canelo is the bigger name but he can't draw very well with no dance partner. Everyone wins if this fight gets made and if the proficts mean GGG gets less than 15 million then he can't complain afterwards as thats what he wanted.


----------



## Montezuma (May 17, 2013)

I think GGG should just take it. Use that indignation and sense of injustice to fuel him and then give Canelo a prolonged career-ending beating. Oscar De La Hoya is a massive hyprocrite. I remember hearing about him moaning about the state of boxing and how Golden Boy was going to help out fighters. GGG is being shafted here but he should just take the money and solve this problem in the ring.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Canelo draws twice as much as Golovkin-Lemieux against someone like Smith. Golovkin would be getting more with 15 million dollars than almost any Mayweather opponent. Think about that. Everyone considers Mayweather the ultimate meal ticket and yet he's got money to live like a rockstar for the rest of his life right in front of him. 15 million fucking dollars when your highest PPV was 190k. Sergio Martinez never got a payday so high even with PPV upside despite being on 2 PPV's that made 350,000 and 475,000. 40% isn't greedy but not making this fight over a few *potential* million in a bad market would suck.

Anyways I hope they come to a deal.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Bit dof a different situation tbf. Canelo was about 23/24 when he fought Floyd and a loss did no damage whatsoever as he was fully expected to lose and lose wide. Was a bit of a no lose situation whereas Golovkin is 33 and a loss basically ends his career as far as being involved in elite level fights. Thats basically the best payday they are getting cause no one in or around middleweight is a draw or a big name fighter that'll attract mainstream attention. They put their eggs in this basket so are gonna rag it out till they get what they want.


That's another very good point.

- And after Golovkin KTFO Canelo, the other top guys (with the exception of Jacobs) will probably STILL duck him right into retirement.

Golovkin needs & deserves to get paid what he's worth.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Golovkin needs & deserves to get paid what he's worth.


15 million is probably above what he's worth in all honesty. Love the guy but he's not the A-side here.


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

Cableaddict said:


> That's another very good point.
> 
> - And after Golovkin KTFO Canelo, the other top guys (with the exception of Jacobs) will probably STILL duck him right into retirement.
> 
> Golovkin needs & deserves to get paid what he's worth.


His "worth" is relative. GGG was only worth 5mill in the Brook fight(his biggest purse to date).
15 mill seems to be 3x his worth. He should just take the money and reap the benefits of a victory over Canelo.


----------



## sosolid4u09 (Jan 28, 2013)

I dont give two shits about who gets paid what. I just wanna see the fight. But 15m doesnt sound like a lowball offer! I reckon they can resolve this


----------



## Guest (Dec 23, 2016)

Only Golovkin retards will defend this.


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

If GGG turns down 15 million, it would be a dumb move on his part. That's a lot of money to turn down, plus his name gets bigger once he destroys the ginger bitch.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

wow_junky said:


> I think bballchump11 is saying the other revenue will cover all other expenses, so it's not unrealistic to allocate all PPV revenue solely to the fighters. Obviously not 100% accurate but it's not a bad way of looking at it.


no

here is the froch/groves breakdown and how foolish one would be to think that the gtae and other revenue streams are irrelevant becasue of expenses.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/bo...t-Rematch-22m-richest-fight-British-soil.html


----------



## Casual Benson's Unknown (Jun 5, 2012)

Rob said:


> Only Golovkin retards will defend this.


This is very similar to Hearn vs McGuigan negotiations, turning down a good offer isn't ducking, the fight can't happen yet so they don't need to accept this offer if they feel they can get a %


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> no
> 
> here is the froch/groves breakdown and how foolish one would be to think that the gtae and other revenue streams are irrelevant becasue of expenses.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/bo...t-Rematch-22m-richest-fight-British-soil.html


They don't charge as much for ppv. A much larger portion of the revenue comes from ppv in the US


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Explains it all here. Mayweather vs Pacquiao was a unique fight and they specifically bargained to take a higher percentage of the ppv revenue because of how big the fight was
> 
> Edit: my phone is being dumb. Search "
> *Mayweather vs Canelo Purse: How Golden Boy Can Afford to Pay Floyd $41.5 Million"*
> *On bleacher report.*


Here you losers go *http://tinyurl.com/lebdjzo*










Read this article. It comprehensibly covers how Mayweather vs Canelo received money from foreign sales, ppv, gate, sponsors, closed circuit, merchandising, etc


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Here you losers go *http://tinyurl.com/lebdjzo*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.mmamania.com/2015/7/5/88...makes-bank-from-pacquiao-fight-with-estimated

manny pacqioua and floyd mayweather took in a combined $370mm off of $600mm revenue...61 percent

if canelo and golovkin can reach the same percentages, with a 75mm ppv and 15mm in other revenues, a 40 percent split to golovkin off of 61 percent would be 21.5mm, close to 45 percent more than the 15mm offer


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> http://www.mmamania.com/2015/7/5/88...makes-bank-from-pacquiao-fight-with-estimated
> 
> manny pacqioua and floyd mayweather took in a combined $370mm off of $600mm revenue...61 percent
> 
> if canelo and golovkin can reach the same percentages, with a 75mm ppv and 15mm in other revenues, a 40 percent split to golovkin off of 61 percent would be 21.5mm, close to 45 percent more than the 15mm offer


They won't get 61%. The margin for that fight was much greater too. The net profit percentage for Mayweather vs Pacquiao was massive. So that'd give them more to split.

Canelo vs GGG will have more expenses as a percentage of sales


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

I can't be the only forum member who's lost track of the conversation over the last few pages of this thread. There's a lot of numbers being thrown about, a lot of percentages. 

Keeping in mind that this 15mil offer might never actually have been made, I'm still looking for an argument that flat-fee offers are a better way of going about making a fight than negotiating a percentage. 

In the past we've seen flat-fee offers appear generous on the surface and then, in retrospect, appear low ball. There are examples of this, that's not up for debate. So do we have examples to the contrary? Honest question. 

Technically, I'm not against Golovkin earning 15mil for this fight. I've just never seen a flat-fee offer that exceeds the eventual % the fighter earned. It's media posturing. It's a number that people can wrap their forum posts around. It's a text-bite that can be circulated to fuel the hype. It's in no way a legitimate promotional stance. 

Question: if 15mill is anywhere near 40% then why not just negotiate forty-fucking-percent?


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

Why are people comparing this to Floyd/PAC? Those two were bonafide superstars who were selling million view PPV's without each other. Their fight was expected to shatter the records and that is why the 40 million was a low ball offer. This fight is not guaranteed to do as much. GGG is nowhere near the name Canelo is. 15 million is a generous offer. You also have to look at the plus side of the exposure this will give GGG. If he beats Canelo as badly as I expect he will increase his name value by a lot. It would be really stupid for him not to take this offer...if it was real to begin with


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bjj_Boxer said:


> Why are people comparing this to Floyd/PAC? Those two were bonafide superstars who were selling million view PPV's without each other. Their fight was expected to shatter the records and that is why the 40 million was a low ball offer. This fight is not guaranteed to do as much. GGG is nowhere near the name Canelo is. 15 million is a generous offer. You also have to look at the plus side of the exposure this will give GGG. If he beats Canelo as badly as I expect he will increase his name value by a lot. It would be really stupid for him not to take this offer...if it was real to begin with


because it set a precedent for how network(s) are not set in the percentage they need to receive for a fight.

im fairly positive that gbp has already negotiated the split with hbo on a canelo/golovkin fight and one would have to be ignorant, or clueless, to believe that there is no chance that they are not trying to receive the same percentages that floyd/pac received...if they have already not received it

also, golovkins contract with hbo could be finished so team golovkin might have additional leverage if gennady were to threaten to jump to showtime as the case with canelos contract that was signed in 2014 which is approaching fight five

https://sundaypuncher.com/dont-get-...fighting-danny-jacobs-22d79fb14c64#.cxovwmyro

http://ucnlive.com/canelo-alvarez-to-sign-historic-agreement-with-hbo/


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> They won't get 61%. The margin for that fight was much greater too. The net profit percentage for Mayweather vs Pacquiao was massive. So that'd give them more to split.
> 
> Canelo vs GGG will have more expenses as a percentage of sales


please explain why the margins with a canelo/golovkin fight would be any much different than the mayweather/pacqioua fight

there might be less advertising...but what else


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> I can't be the only forum member who's lost track of the conversation over the last few pages of this thread. There's a lot of numbers being thrown about, a lot of percentages.
> 
> Keeping in mind that this 15mil offer might never actually have been made, I'm still looking for an argument that flat-fee offers are a better way of going about making a fight than negotiating a percentage.
> 
> ...


A flat fee guarantees GGG his purse. It present 0 risk. He shows up and makes $15 million. Asking for a percentage is riskier, but presents a higher return. If this fight does around 800K, that's pretty good. That's more than Margarito vs Cotto II and Martinez vs Chavez. That's also not enough to pay GGG his $15 million however.

And plenty of fighters have been paid on flat fees. Big stars usually don't get paid like that, but their opponents do.

And to put things into perspective like @Bogotazo did, here's some a frame of reference on what these fighters usually get for ppv.

Cotto guaranteed $8,000,000 against Floyd Mayweather and received over $10,000,000 overall.
Cotto guaranteed $4,000,000 against Pacquiao and received $12,000,000
Chavez guaranteed $3,000,000 against Martinez
Canelo guaranteed $5,000,000 Mayweather and received 10-12 million overall
Bernard Hopkins guaranteed $4,000,000 De La Hoya and received 10-15 million overall
Mosley received $6.7 million against Mayweather


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

http://www.espn.com.mx/boxeo/nota/_/id/2903265/canelo-solo-espera-por-firma-de-chavez-jr

Canelo working on getting the Jr fight signed as well. Offering a 6 mil guarantee according to ESPN Deportes.

Imagine that Canelo Chavez Jr and Canelo GGG in one year.

God bless you Oskee, you really are saving boxing one line of high quality coke at a time.

@Kush


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> please explain why the margins with a canelo/golovkin fight would be any much different than the mayweather/pacqioua fight
> 
> there might be less advertising...but what else


Mayweather vs Paquiao didn't really spend as much on promoting as you'd expect. I'll throw out a completely hypothetical number and say that they spent $20 million promoting the fight.

Now I'll say that Canelo and GGG will spend about $5 million promoting the fight.

Mayweather/Pacquiao grossed over $400 million from ppv. 400-20 = 380. 380/400 is A 95% margin.

For my hypothetical Canelo/GGG fight. Lets say that they generate $80 million. 80-5=75 after promotion expenses. 75/80= 93.75% margin.

I was being incredibly generous to GGG and Canelo there in my example and their margin still wasn't more. Remember that the split of ppv is paid on profit. A higher profit margin allows more money to be split for both fighters


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> http://www.espn.com.mx/boxeo/nota/_/id/2903265/canelo-solo-espera-por-firma-de-chavez-jr
> 
> Canelo working on getting the Jr fight signed as well. Offering a 6 mil guarantee according to ESPN Deportes.
> 
> ...


lol Oscar may go broke. People are crapping on the fight, and I'm one of them. However, that is a risky fight for Canelo. I just think it makes sense for either team


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> lol Oscar may go broke. People are crapping on the fight, and I'm one of them. However, that is a risky fight for Canelo. I just think it makes sense for either team


 Dude you paid for frikin Mayweather vs Alberto, this fight will do alright.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Dude you paid for frikin Mayweather vs Alberto, this fight will do alright.


I think so too. Chavez's prestige has gone down, but the Mexican fanbase is strong in American. Then enough casuals will hear the name and tune in.


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> because it set a precedent for how network(s) are not set in the percentage they need to receive for a fight.
> 
> im fairly positive that gbp has already negotiated the split with hbo on a canelo/golovkin fight and one would have to be ignorant, or clueless, to believe that there is no chance that they are not trying to receive the same percentages that floyd/pac received...if they have already not received it
> 
> ...


Name the boxers who have made 15 million in the past 10 years...there aren't that much. Stop acting like 15 million is chump change. Stop acting like GGG is gonna make significantly more otherwise. Again, if GBP really offered him this fight and he turns it down, he is a fucking idiot.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bjj_Boxer said:


> Name the boxers who have made 15 million in the past 10 years...there aren't that much. Stop acting like 15 million is chump change. Stop acting like GGG is gonna make significantly more otherwise. Again, if GBP really offered him this fight and he turns it down, he is a fucking idiot.


what does the past 10 years have to do with golovkin trying to max out his profits for a fight with canelo

floyd offered pac 40mm and it ended up being about a quarter of what manny ended up receiving


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> what does the past 10 years have to do with golovkin trying to max out his profits for a fight with canelo
> 
> floyd offered pac 40mm and it ended up being about a quarter of what manny ended up receiving


In no way can you compare the financially biggest fight in boxing to a fight that would be lucky to crack 1.2 million.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> In no way can you compare the financially biggest fight in boxing to a fight that would be lucky to crack 1.2 million.


so what youre saying is that there is no way that canelo and golovkin can negotiate 60 percent of the revenue with hbo ppv

oh

okay


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> so what youre saying is that there is no way that canelo and golovkin can negotiate 60 percent of the revenue with hbo ppv


No, that's a different argument. They could, and the disparity between the percentage and the flat fee wouldn't be nearly as great as it was for Pacquiao. In fact there is a chance the flat fee turns out superior, which was an impossibility for Pacquiao.


----------



## Slimtrae (Aug 10, 2015)

Just fight.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> No, that's a different argument. They could, and the disparity between the percentage and the flat fee wouldn't be nearly as great as it was for Pacquiao. *In fact there is a chance the flat fee turns out superior, which was an impossibility for Pacquiao.*


hahaha

rofl lmfao many of your buddies here were claiming that paq ducked floyd when manny rejected the 40mm offer while those that dont have mayweather cock up our ass knew that the offer was bogus

i dont have time nor do i give a shit to look up and caption some of your buddies qoutes but everyone here knows what im saying is true...the very few that even come to this forum anymore.

the fuken irony...now youre saying yourself that the 40mm flat floyd offer would never match the split


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> No, that's a different argument. They could, and the disparity between the percentage and the flat fee wouldn't be nearly as great as it was for Pacquiao. In fact there is a chance the flat fee turns out superior, which was an impossibility for Pacquiao.


the argument is not the difference between pac and golovkins flat fee offer, the argument is that your buddy bballchump is implying that golovkin is holding up the fight because he wont accept 15mm when ive broken down, with bballchumps own ppv projections, how golokvin can get 22-25mm.

and lmfao if you think oscar and gbp are going to leave money on the table, their own money, as opposed to haymon who is losing other peoples money.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Mayweather vs Paquiao didn't really spend as much on promoting as you'd expect. I'll throw out a completely* hypothetical *number and say that they spent $20 million promoting the fight.
> 
> Now I'll say that Canelo and GGG will spend about $5 million promoting the fight.
> 
> ...


so we are talking, with your numbers, a 93.75% as opposed to a 95% margin and this is the reason why canelo and golovkin cannot get 60 percent of the ppv like pac and mayweather did.

a whopping 1.25 percent?

i mean...youre just pulling "hypothetical" numbers out of your ass with no references to any financial statements whatsoever to justify your position that pac and mayweathers *profit margin *is going to be much greater than canelo and golovkin

again, show me exactly how and why floyd and paqs profit margin is going to be "much greater" than golovkin and canelo using *tangible facts *as opposed to *hypothetical *scenarios


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> what does the past 10 years have to do with golovkin trying to max out his profits for a fight with canelo
> 
> floyd offered pac 40mm and it ended up being about a quarter of what manny ended up receiving


Yeah Golovkin is not Pac and Canelo isn't Floyd, you're an idiot to think GGG will make significantly more than 15 million in any scenario.


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> the argument is not the difference between pac and golovkins flat fee offer, the argument is that your buddy bballchump is implying that golovkin is holding up the fight because he wont accept 15mm when ive broken down, with bballchumps own ppv projections, how golokvin can get 22-25mm.
> 
> and lmfao if you think oscar and gbp are going to leave money on the table, their own money, as opposed to haymon who is losing other peoples money.


You realize that at Pac's PEAK, he was making 22-25 million right? Do you honestly think GGG can make that much? You're deluded...


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bjj_Boxer said:


> Yeah Golovkin is not Pac and Canelo isn't Floyd, you're an idiot to think GGG will make significantly more than 15 million in any scenario.


so i guess bob arum is an idiot

http://www.boxingscene.com/arum-rips-golden-boys-flat-fee-offer-golovkin-bullsht--109223


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bjj_Boxer said:


> You realize that at Pac's PEAK, he was making 22-25 million right? Do you honestly think GGG can make that much? You're deluded...


what does pacquioa have to do with a gennady golovkin/canelo alvarez fight

this is as dumb as trying to defend the offer by comparing how many other fighters have received 15mm offers over the last 10 years


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> *so i guess bob arum is an idiot *
> 
> http://www.boxingscene.com/arum-rips-golden-boys-flat-fee-offer-golovkin-bullsht--109223


That's news to you?


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> what does pacquioa have to do with a gennady golovkin/canelo alvarez fight
> 
> this is as dumb as trying to defend the offer by comparing how many other fighters have received 15mm offers over the last 10 years


It has everything to do with it you fucking mong...PAC and Floyd were special when it came to PPV. They were selling 1million view PPV's...and PAC was making 25 million with those numbers. Yet you think GGG deserves 25 million :rofl Jesus you are fucking stupid


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bjj_Boxer said:


> That's news to you?


so i guess what you are saying is that one of the most successful promoters in the history of boxing is an idiot?

a fuken harvard law graduate?


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> so i guess what you are saying is that one of the most successful promoters in the history of boxing is an idiot?
> 
> a fuken harvard law graduate?


When he talks about shit that doesn't involve him, yes. Arum is known for spitting bullshit, or are you not aware of that?


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bjj_Boxer said:


> It has everything to do with it you fucking mon
> g...PAC and Floyd were special when it came to PPV. They were selling 1million view PPV's...and PAC was making 25 million with those numbers. Yet you think GGG deserves 25 million :rofl Jesus you are fucking stupid


so then gbp should have no problem giving them the 40 percent instead of the 15mm

see how easy that was?


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bjj_Boxer said:


> When he talks about shit that doesn't involve him, yes. Arum is known for spitting bullshit, or are you not aware of that?


so bob arum is the only boxing promoter that spits bullshit?

you essentially called bob arum an idiot...a fuken harvard law graduate who is probably smarter than 99.9999 percent of the US population

bogatozo is a law student and the fuk all if he is going to call any harvard law graduate an idiot, let alone one of the most successful boxing promoters in the history of the sport...you idiot


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> so then gbp should have no problem giving them the 40 percent instead of the 15mm
> 
> see how easy that was?


So why not accept a career high payday?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> hahaha
> 
> rofl lmfao many of your buddies here were claiming that...


Nothing I claimed so there's no point bringing it up to me.



quincy k said:


> the argument is not the difference between pac and golovkins flat fee offer, the argument is that your buddy bballchump is implying that golovkin is holding up the fight because he wont accept 15mm when ive broken down, with bballchumps own ppv projections, how golokvin can get 22-25mm


I'm not saying GGG shouldn't negotiate for a percentage but 22-25 is extremely optimistic and 15 million is a guaranteed payday bigger than 95% of Floyd Money Mayweather's opponents.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

I think all this shit is pointless. Tom is gonna try to get the most he can for GGG, Oscar will do the same for Canelo. At the end of the day GGG is gonna take what he can get, trust me.


----------



## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

quincy k said:


> so i guess bob arum is an idiot
> 
> http://www.boxingscene.com/arum-rips-golden-boys-flat-fee-offer-golovkin-bullsht--109223


I love how Bob decries this and Mayweather-Pacquiao but says nothing about the bullshit "offer" he made for Donaire-Mares, which was even more ludicrous.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Nothing I claimed so there's no point bringing it up to me.
> 
> I'm not saying GGG shouldn't negotiate for a percentage but 22-25 is extremely optimistic and 15 million is a guaranteed payday bigger than 95% of Floyd Money Mayweather's opponents.


22-25mm is not extremely optimistic as ive broken it down for you and how that it could be obtained using bballchumps ppv projections.

do you know the intrinsic difference between 15mm and 22-25mm?

it called roughly four david lemeuix fights, or a little over a year, to a fighter that might have three more years left in him

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/10/...llion-lemieux-1-5-million-hbo-ppv-boxing-news

its like a grown man trying to discuss business with little boys here


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> 22-25mm is not extremely optimistic as ive broken it down for you and how that it could be obtained using bballchumps ppv projections.
> 
> do you know the intrinsic difference between 15mm and 22-25mm?
> 
> ...


This is what you said:



quincy k said:


> *if they do 75mm* the split is 45 million at 60 percent. basic math by a person without an accounting degree will see that a flat 15mm offer is 33 percent...ppv


That requires the fight to do better than a million buys. It's possible but Canelo-Cotto only did 900k despite Cotto being a much higher draw than GGG. Possibly because of a number of factors but it's not a good market for PPV. If it makes 900k, it comes out to 15,120,000 for GGG (40% of 60% of $63,000,000 in revenue from 900,000 buys averaged at 70$, assuming the cable/promotional split carries over from the Pacweather figures as a rough standard).

Nobody is saying that 15 million is a guaranteed better payout than 40% or that GGG shouldn't try to get more, but that it's not a bad or unfair pay day at all considering he's not a draw and that fighting the sport's biggest ever financial draw was rarely more lucrative than this flat fee. So top patting yourself on the back like an asshole as if you've just solved the world's hardest equation.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> This is what you said:
> 
> That requires the fight to do better than a million buys. It's possible but Canelo-Cotto only did 900k despite Cotto being a much higher draw than GGG. Possibly because of a number of factors but it's not a good market for PPV. If it makes 900k, it comes out to 15,120,000 for GGG (40% of 60% of $63,000,000 in revenue from 900,000 buys averaged at 70$, assuming the cable/promotional split carries over from the Pacweather figures as a rough standard).
> 
> Nobody is saying that 15 million is a guaranteed better payout than 40% or that GGG shouldn't try to get more, but that it's not a bad or unfair pay day at all considering he's not a draw and that fighting the sport's biggest ever financial draw was rarely more lucrative than this flat fee. So top patting yourself on the back like an asshole as if you've just solved the world's hardest equation.


i never said that the 15mm was unfair or a bad payday...i simply pointed out how the broken-record- golovin-paq-hating bbalchump left out the non ppv revenue

and the 75mm was bballchumps figure not mine

i dont know what the fight is going to do so im not going into full-on-retard-golovkin-attack mode

my guess using the theories of logic is the reason that gbp doesnt want to give the 40 and only will do the 15 is because they themselves think that theyll make more giving the later

why is this so hard for you to understand?


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> This is what you said:
> 
> That requires the fight to do better than a million buys. It's possible but Canelo-Cotto only did 900k despite Cotto being a much higher draw than GGG. Possibly because of a number of factors but it's not a good market for PPV. If it makes 900k, it comes out to 15,120,000 for GGG (40% of 60% of $63,000,000 in revenue from 900,000 buys averaged at 70$, assuming the cable/promotional split carries over from the Pacweather figures as a rough standard).
> 
> Nobody is saying that 15 million is a guaranteed better payout than 40% or that GGG shouldn't try to get more, but that it's not a bad or unfair pay day at all considering he's not a draw and that fighting the sport's biggest ever financial draw was rarely more lucrative than this flat fee. So top patting yourself on the back like an asshole as if you've just solved the world's hardest equation.


why the fuk would i pat myself on the back regarding a debate on this forum that no one even participates on anymore?

like the numerous other forum members that left the wbf i could give two fuks about this place

about a month ago an established forum member point-black told you to fuk off and go ahead and ban him

i was embarrased for you being the chief moderator here


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> i never said that the 15mm was unfair or a bad payday...i simply pointed out how the broken-record- golovin-paq-hating bbalchump left out the non ppv revenue


That has nothing to do with me or what I posted. Glad we cleared that up.



quincy k said:


> why the fuk would i pat myself on the back regarding a debate on this forum that no one even participates on anymore?
> 
> like the numerous other forum members that left the wbf i could give two fuks about this place
> 
> ...


Feel free to leave then. Bye!


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> That has nothing to do with me or what I posted. Glad we cleared that up.
> 
> Feel free to leave then. Bye!


okay,

i guess ill be on the list of the numerous other posters that no longer come here.

that will leave you, bballchump, michigan warrior and a few of your other buddies


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> so we are talking, with your numbers, a 93.75% as opposed to a 95% margin and this is the reason why canelo and golovkin cannot get 60 percent of the ppv like pac and mayweather did.
> 
> a whopping 1.25 percent?
> 
> ...


You're ability to connect logical things is embarrassing. Critical thinking


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> i never said that the 15mm was unfair or a bad payday...i simply pointed out how the broken-record- golovin-paq-hating bbalchump left out the non ppv revenue
> 
> and the 75mm was bballchumps figure not mine
> 
> ...


Lol it's funny how stupid you are.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

quincy k said:


> why the fuk would i pat myself on the back regarding a debate on this forum that no one even participates on anymore?
> 
> like the numerous other forum members that left the wbf i could give two fuks about this place
> 
> ...


Bobo just clapped your pussy boy


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Is at @Doc banned?


been MIA for a while...

usually show up for a bit when there is Canelo news...


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## Crean (May 19, 2013)

If I was GGG I would take the $15m guarantee.

I wouldn't allow any catch weight bullshit though.

Get it signed, knock the kid out and take your cheque.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Can't put a price on the winner becoming DA MAN in boxing. I understand hard bargaining but its an absolute shame if this fight doesn't go through because of a few million on top of their guarantees.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Bjj_Boxer said:


> So why not accept a career high payday?


Because he has a fight w/ Danny Jacobs set?


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

Realistically, what do we see Canelo Vs GGG doing?

Maybe a million buys , at a push.

That's 70m-80m revenue. The promoters need a cut of that. Realistically the two fighters are looking at 40-50m between them. In that scenario, 15m guarantee ain't bad for GGG.


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## Drew (Jan 6, 2016)

Crean said:


> Realistically, what do we see Canelo Vs GGG doing?
> 
> Maybe a million buys , at a push.
> 
> That's 70m-80m revenue. The promoters need a cut of that. Realistically the two fighters are looking at 40-50m between them. In that scenario, 15m guarantee ain't bad for GGG.


Plus he'll become a bigger star with bigger PPV numbers after. Say GGG makes $2m for the Jacobs fight well that could treble to $6m if he had fought and beat Canelo first, that's $4m difference he's missed out on.

Those numbers are obviously not gonna be right but the point stands, the Lemieux fight did 150,000 buys if he beats Canelo you would think his future PPV's would at least double.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Am I the only one who doesn't care at all about this fight? Jacobs is a better fighter than Canelo. Jacobs would beat Canelo easily IMO.


----------



## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

Crean said:


> Realistically, what do we see Canelo Vs GGG doing?
> 
> Maybe a million buys , at a push.
> 
> That's 70m-80m revenue. The promoters need a cut of that. Realistically the two fighters are looking at 40-50m between them. In that scenario, 15m guarantee ain't bad for GGG.


With the GGG-Jacobs fight, in addition to the USA PPV, the fight is being screened in 100+ countries, there has to be some coin from that.


----------



## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't care at all about this fight? Jacobs is a better fighter than Canelo. Jacobs would beat Canelo easily IMO.


I think Jacobs has a better chance of beating Golovkin than Canelo does, it would be pretty sweet for Golovkin to burst Goldenboys bubble though...


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

KERRIGAN said:


> With the GGG-Jacobs fight, in addition to the USA PPV, the fight is being screened in 100+ countries, there has to be some coin from that.


A lot of those countries won't be showing it as a PPV though.


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## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

Crean said:


> A lot of those countries won't be showing it as a PPV though.


No doubt, but there must be television licensing fees they pay and whilst they won't be a fortune, when you multiple that by 100, it must add up to something noticeable.


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't care at all about this fight? Jacobs is a better fighter than Canelo. Jacobs would beat Canelo easily IMO.


:rofl boxing hipster


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

KERRIGAN said:


> No doubt, but there must be television licensing fees they pay and whilst they won't be a fortune, when you multiple that by 100, it must add up to something noticeable.


its impossible to converse with people about matters of money who have no money at all nor ever had any money. and in all likelihood...probably a negative net worth

http://www.espn.com/blog/dan-rafael/post/_/id/11353/purses-for-the-big-fight-weekend-in-vegas

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2014/08/purses-rios-925k-chaves-25k-vargas-125k-novikov-105k/

"The figures written a Nevada contract are not necessarily the real number for big PPV guys. They get most of their money off PPV generally. So if Manny's "official" purse is $8 million fine. But he is guaranteed in his contract with Top Rank (which is not something the commission would have or release if it did) something like $20 million or whatever. The money is the money. One of the reasons for the disparity is because Manny is not a US citizen and is often paid a large amount of his money through his Filipino promotional company and deals in the Philippines for things like the television revenue there. So while it looks like a big difference it is not in reality."

"So folks can keep on drinking the kool aid. But they dont get how the business actually works when it comes to fighters from overseas. I once covered a world title fight in Vegas with a champion from South Africa in say about 2002. His Nevada contract for a world title fight said his official purse was like $1,000. But he was making more like $50,000 because of the TV money from South Africa. You can do anything with numbers. What is written on the Nevada paper for big time fights isn't worth the paper it is written on," Rafael would put things in perspectve.

if there is no difference between 15mm and 40 percent...just give the 40 percent.

its really that easy for people that are not colorblind like bballchump and michiganwarrior


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> its impossible to converse with people about matters of money who have no money at all nor ever had any money. and in all likelihood...probably a negative net worth
> 
> http://www.espn.com/blog/dan-rafael/post/_/id/11353/purses-for-the-big-fight-weekend-in-vegas
> 
> ...


Get out of here clown


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Get out of here clown


lmfao, you conveniently forgot to include the gate and cc and only forecast the ppv revenue when valueing this fight.

thats about as dumb as when you insinuated that you never claimed that golovkin was ducking lara

http://checkhookboxing.com/index.ph...ication-or-ggg-next.91786/page-3#post-2831686


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> lmfao, you conveniently forgot to include the gate and cc and only forecast the ppv revenue when valueing this fight.
> 
> thats about as dumb as when you insinuated that you never claimed that golovkin was ducking lara
> 
> http://checkhookboxing.com/index.ph...ication-or-ggg-next.91786/page-3#post-2831686


You're too stupid to talk about this with. If anybody else wants to reopen this conversation, then I'd happily do it


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> You're too stupid to talk about this with. If anybody else wants to reopen this conversation, then I'd happily do it


too stupid is being dumb enough to disregard cc, tv rights and the live gate when you projected the value of a golovkin/canelo fight.

http://archivo.eluniversal.com.mx/d...-oficializa-su-cambio-a-tv-azteca-162902.html

there is a whole lot of money when you are talking about 18mm people

so much money that gbp would only committ to three fights in the new tvazteca deal

http://www.proboxing-fans.com/canelo-alvarez-fights-to-be-broadcast-on-tv-azteca-in-mexico_041015/

im sure someone with an advertising and accounting background(actual real-world unike yours) can give a logical estimate on how much commercial revenue tv azteca and gbp would make on a golovkin fight where probably close to 40mm people would be watching in mexico alone

http://www.espn.com.mx/boxeo/nota/_/id/2797508/tuvo-canelo-audiencia-de-18-millones-en-mexico

2016 superbowl audience and 30 second commercial cost at 5mm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_TV_ratings


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## stevebhoy87 (Jun 4, 2013)

Crean said:


> Realistically, what do we see Canelo Vs GGG doing?
> 
> Maybe a million buys , at a push.
> 
> That's 70m-80m revenue. The promoters need a cut of that. Realistically the two fighters are looking at 40-50m between them. In that scenario, 15m guarantee ain't bad for GGG.


They'd get a good site fee from a vegas casino or the cowboys stadium, would be sold around the world, be big money in Mexico for the fight (though obviously Canelo will take all that), sponserships etc.

This fight will do good numbers, $15m is a reasonable offer, I do think a 40% might make more,though not guarenteed, and if it comes down to it I think Golovkin should take it instead of losing out on the fight, but also if I was him wouldn't be signing for it 8 months in advance and not trying to negotiate the best possible deal in the mean time, that would be stupid. If Golden boy dig there heels in though and that's best he's offered, I think he should take it for the good of his career


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## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> Canelo needs this fight bad he is mocked fight after fight. Many casuals know GGG AND that Alvarez is a fraud. The negotiation hold up is never a good look in a manly sport.


Canelo has fought far better opposition than GGG...not sure how you arrive at this idea that somehow Canelo "needs" this fight more than GGG does.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Reppin501 said:


> Canelo has fought far better opposition than GGG...not sure how you arrive at this idea that somehow Canelo "needs" this fight more than GGG does.


You think Canelo wlil be fine sitting around the MW division as nothing but a contender, w/o a belt at all? You did see his last fight, the belt grab against Smith?

What you aren't considering Rep is, after all of canelo's tough talk, inviting golovkin into the ring, saying he don'y f*** around, he has to fight Golvokin, or that will haunt him. Golovkin has two things Canelo needs. 1. A world title at MW (If he's going to fight there), and 2. the chance to clear his 'chickening out' against Golovkin, which many see that as.

Who needs who isn;t as simple as just looking at who fought the bigger names. Circumstances and situations change how things are perceived, when one looks only at the surface.

However, if you mean canelo doesn't need Golovkin to make a ton of money, then you are correct.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> too stupid is being dumb enough to disregard cc, tv rights and the live gate when you projected the value of a golovkin/canelo fight.
> 
> http://archivo.eluniversal.com.mx/d...-oficializa-su-cambio-a-tv-azteca-162902.html
> 
> ...


No thanks


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Crean said:


> :rofl boxing hipster


You what?


----------



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Reppin501 said:


> Canelo has fought far better opposition than GGG...not sure how you arrive at this idea that somehow Canelo "needs" this fight more than GGG does.


The Godfather of Mexican Boxing seems to think so:

ASTANA. KAZINFORM - Boxing legend Julio Cesar Chavez Sr. shared his thoughts on why Mexican boxer Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez needs to fight Kazakhstani middleweight champion Gennady Golovkin, Kazinform has learnt from Sports.kz. He believes that Canelo needs a very good B-Side to complement his superstar status when it comes to a PPV event. Chavez said that he [Canelo] definitely needs Golovkin to sell one million on PPV. "There must be a complement [to himself]. The fight with 'Macho' Camacho was a complement to myself, the fight with Whitaker was a compliment to myself," he said. Canelo who sustained a hand injury during his knockout victory over British boxer Liam Smith will not be able to fight until yearend at least. He is very unlikely to fight Golovkin until September 2017.

Все права защищены. Используйте активную ссылку на inform.kz http://www.inform.kz/en/julio-cesar...ds-golovkin-to-sell-1-million-on-ppv_a2951425


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

I read in an article (think it was a fat Dan piece) that Canelo "wanted to face the best possible JCC Jr". Why then is he insisting on the 164.5 catchweight, the hypocritical, self-contradictory ginger fanny?


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Felix said:


> I read in an article (think it was a fat Dan piece) that Canelo "wanted to face the best possible JCC Jr". Why then is he insisting on the 164.5 catchweight, the hypocritical, self-contradictory ginger fanny?


yeah that is nonsense especially if it's true that he paid Chavez Jr an extra million dollars to lose that half pound.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Reppin501 said:


> Canelo has fought far better opposition than GGG...not sure how you arrive at this idea that somehow Canelo "needs" this fight more than GGG does.


I never said he needed it more. He needs the fight to save face because they know GGG is the guy to beat. Tell me I'm wrong.


----------



## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

KOTF said:


> And here I was complaining about Archie Moore only getting $800 (yes, $800) to beat Joey Maxim for the undisputed LHW title (whereas Maxim got $100K)


Dat split doe.... 98.74/1.26!


----------



## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

If the $15 mil offer is true, K2 knows that has a possibility of being only 20-25% of the eventual split... naturally, it probably sounds like a shit offer. It's a lot of money, a career high pay-day, all that... but just like that $40 mil offer Mayweather tried to get Pacquiao to agree to, it's a bullshit low-ball and K2 isn't fucking retarded. GBP with have to do better to get the fight done if they really even want to.


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah that is nonsense especially if it's true that he paid Chavez Jr an extra million dollars to lose that half pound.


yeah, Canelo seems to have taken a page from the Mayweather playbook. SMH.


----------



## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

Mal said:


> You think Canelo wlil be fine sitting around the MW division as nothing but a contender, w/o a belt at all? You did see his last fight, the belt grab against Smith?
> 
> What you aren't considering Rep is, after all of canelo's tough talk, inviting golovkin into the ring, saying he don'y f*** around, he has to fight Golvokin, or that will haunt him. Golovkin has two things Canelo needs. 1. A world title at MW (If he's going to fight there), and 2. the chance to clear his 'chickening out' against Golovkin, which many see that as.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with your premise, I got the impression in the post I quoted that Canelo (if he wants validation) needs this fight, when in reality he's taken several tough fights and has a really good resume for his age. I agree he needs to make this fight, and the fans are demanding the fight, I just think he's more than established himself as a fighter via his resume.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Reppin501 said:


> I don't disagree with your premise, I got the impression in the post I quoted that Canelo (if he wants validation) needs this fight, when in reality he's taken several tough fights and has a really good resume for his age. I agree he needs to make this fight, and the fans are demanding the fight, I just think he's more than established himself as a fighter via his resume.


There's no question who is more established or who has the better resume. That's the easy part.

The idea of 'who needs who' isn't simply settled by who has a better resume. It's a ever changing philosophy based on leverage, public opinion, whether a fighter wants titles or not, and other minute tidbits that can change the landscape.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Man, Golovkin managed to secure the Jacobs fight for March and its starting to look like he might legitimately be able to get Saunders and Canelo too.

If that happens that's an incredible year. If he gets those fights and wins then he'll be the first undisputed (including lineal) champ in any division for ten years and will have equalled Hopkins record for most MW defenses.

Really hope it can happen for him. It's been a hard road in securing fights for GGG but if he can wrap up middleweight by 2018 then I'd love to see him move up for a short campaign at SMW.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Talks back underway. Both sides seem eager for September. Oscar now preferring a percentage given GGG's low PPV numbers, which Loeffler seems to like.

http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/18981412/talks-resume-gennady-golovkin-canelo-alvarez-showdown


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Man, Golovkin managed to secure the Jacobs fight for March and its starting to look like he might legitimately be able to get Saunders and Canelo too.
> 
> If that happens that's an incredible year. If he gets those fights and wins then he'll be the first undisputed (including lineal) champ in any division for ten years and will have equalled Hopkins record for most MW defenses.
> 
> Really hope it can happen for him. It's been a hard road in securing fights for GGG but if he can wrap up middleweight by 2018 then I'd love to see him move up for a short campaign at SMW.


For the middleweight division, B-Hop unified it 2001, just right after the 9/11 attacks. so it's after 16 years right?


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> For the middleweight division, B-Hop unified it 2001, just right after the 9/11 attacks. so it's after 16 years right?


iirc B-Hop did most of the hard work, collecting belts and gradually becoming undisputed between 2001-2004. Then Taylor became undisputed by beating him for all the belts the year after. So it would be around 12 years.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Talks back underway. Both sides seem eager for September. Oscar now preferring a percentage given GGG's low PPV numbers, which Loeffler seems to like.
> 
> http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/18981412/talks-resume-gennady-golovkin-canelo-alvarez-showdown


This is positive and, funnily enough, what I was after yesterday.

_"We always thought a percentage deal would make the most sense and be the most fair, and if they're willing to discuss that now, it makes a lot of sense," - Loeffler
_​He's quoted saying that so it's most likely there _was_ an offer of some amount as a flat fee as he's used the phrases "if they're willing to discuss that_ now_" and "we _always thought a percentage deal _would make the most sense".

Hopefully they can agree on something everyone's happy with now and get the fight made.

I don't trust Oscar not liking a June fight for GGG though. It's only 4 weeks after Canelo fights and would be over 3 months before Mexican independence weekend . Golovkin fighting in June shouldn't be an issue at all.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> This is positive and, funnily enough, what I was after yesterday.
> 
> _"We always thought a percentage deal would make the most sense and be the most fair, and if they're willing to discuss that now, it makes a lot of sense," - Loeffler
> _​He's quoted saying that so it's most likely there _was_ an offer of some amount as a flat fee as he's used the phrases "if they're willing to discuss that_ now_" and "we _always thought a percentage deal _would make the most sense".
> ...


Agreed, they shouldn't be forced to wait.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Yall need to listen to the CPA :yep

De La Hoya has offered Golovkin $15 million but said he is taking that offer off the table and "thinking about doing a percentage split to get the fight done."

That would placate Golovkin and also shield De La Hoya from having to pay out $15 million, even if the fight does not perform as well as he hopes.

"I'm going to talk to Canelo about it on Friday and figure out the structure," De La Hoya said. "We have to look at today's market. I'm not sure what the numbers are for his fight [against Jacobs], but I hear they're low. For me to take a huge risk on a guarantee is absurd."


----------



## Atlanta (Sep 17, 2012)

Kurushi said:


> iirc B-Hop did most of the hard work, collecting belts and gradually becoming undisputed between 2001-2004. Then Taylor became undisputed by beating him for all the belts the year after. So it would be around 12 years.


Bhop unified 3 belts (IBF, WBC, WBA) against Tito right after 9/11. He unified the 4th(WBO) against DLH (who won it from Felix Sturm)

Taylor won the unified championship after Hopkins defended it once against Howard Eastman.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

awesome news... 70 30 or 60 40 should be aimed for to make the fight.. anything less and dlh is ducking.


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

GGG should go for Saunders' belt in June and leave Canelo nothing at MW, then they can talk September and percentages. 

Golden Boy cannot be trusted and "fight needs preparation" comes particularly funny from two-face DLH who once had 5 world titles fights in a single year. GGG-Canelo needs no extra promotion, they should fight in May and June and promote the shit out of September, anything else is BS.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

BigBone said:


> GGG should go for Saunders' belt in June and leave Canelo nothing at MW, then they can talk September and percentages.
> 
> Golden Boy cannot be trusted and "fight needs preparation" comes particularly funny from two-face DLH who once had 5 world titles fights in a single year. GGG-Canelo needs no extra promotion, they should fight in May and June and promote the shit out of September, anything else is BS.


Canelo doesn't care about belts, but I agree GGG should take on Saunders in June then try for Canelo later in the year.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Loeffler was on AM 710 Los Angeles yesterday and sounded confident the fight would take place in September. Said GGG is willing to fight anywhere so GBP can pick the venue and that GBP he believes GB will stick to their numerous assertions the fight will take place this September.


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## TeddyL (Oct 5, 2013)

People keep talking about how he should fight BJS June 10th and then Canelo in September. That is not going to happen.

'They' are not going to invest in starting the required promotion with GGG having a fight like that upcoming. If it was May then fine but June 10th is too far over the line for a fight of this magnitude in order to maximise revenue. To do otherwise would be to throw away money.

I highly doubt GGG's team do not agree with this. They are using the BJS June 10 threat as a negotiation tool and also as a way of making it appear that Canelo 'ducked' him should they not accept the deal that Golden Boy offers them.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Canelo doesn't care about belts, but I agree GGG should take on Saunders in June then try for Canelo later in the year.


I have to agree. I doubt Canelo gives a fuck about the belt. Read on Twitter that they're looking at Lemieux in September.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/845509329151180800


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## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

If fighting Saunders in June means the Canelo fight is off then GGG should wait until September for his next fight. 

It will be great for him to get all the belts and fight in June but the Canelo fight needs to happen this year and it should absolutely be his main priority. Saunders will still be there, or at least the WBO title will be.


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## wow_junky (Jun 21, 2012)

What if GGG waits on Canelo for a September fight and then JCC stomps him? GGG has then wasted a few mil he could have earned in an interim fight


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## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

wow_junky said:


> What if GGG waits on Canelo for a September fight and then JCC stomps him? GGG has then wasted a few mil he could have earned in an interim fight


That wouldn't harm him as much as you think because he will still have 2 very good options;

1) Still fight Canelo in September however he can demand much more of the purse now and in turn probably make more money than before.
2) He could fight Billy Joe Saunders in September, same plan as June but just a few months later.

However on another note, having said all that Canelo will not lose to Chavez Jr. Think about it what threat will Chavez Jr, who is fighting at his lowest weight in years, pose to Canelo who will be fighting at his most comfortable weight in years. Julio is 31 and does not take care of his body outside of the ring, in ring years he is probably that of a fading fighter now. Canelo whoops his ass.


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## wow_junky (Jun 21, 2012)

Floyd_g.o.a.t said:


> That wouldn't harm him as much as you think because he will still have 2 very good options;
> 
> 1) Still fight Canelo in September however he can demand much more of the purse now and in turn probably make more money than before.
> 2) He could fight Billy Joe Saunders in September, same plan as June but just a few months later.
> ...


Canelo is also giving up his biggest advantage (size), that can't be underestimated


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## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

wow_junky said:


> Canelo is also giving up his biggest advantage (size), that can't be underestimated


Agreed.

The size difference is apparent but Julio always seemed like a huge Middleweight and reasonably comfortable at Super Middle, for him to drain down to 165 lbs will cause him damage. Especially seeing as he's not fought below 168 for over 4 years. I don't think the size will matter in the ring as Canelo will re-hydrate 15lbs easy. Canelo tears him up.


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

wow_junky said:


> Canelo is also giving up his biggest advantage (size), that can't be underestimated


The fight will be similar to Canelo vs. Angulo. It's not gonna be close.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

*Golovkin-Saunders Unlikely For June, GGG To Wait For Canelo*

http://www.boxingscene.com/golovkin-saunders-unlikely-june-ggg-wait-canelo--115494

http://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-trainer-weve-fought-smarter-better-foes-golovkin--115484


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> *Golovkin-Saunders Unlikely For June, GGG To Wait For Canelo*
> 
> http://www.boxingscene.com/golovkin-saunders-unlikely-june-ggg-wait-canelo--115494
> 
> http://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-trainer-weve-fought-smarter-better-foes-golovkin--115484


Interesting development.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Be hilarious if Canelo fought the winner of Murata vs Ndam next.


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## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

Don't like that decision at all, if it was indeed a decision on their part not to go through with the June fight. I think all the stuff Canelo has been saying/doing over the months has finally worn thin with GGG and he just wants to shut him up.


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## Atlanta (Sep 17, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> *Golovkin-Saunders Unlikely For June, GGG To Wait For Canelo*
> 
> http://www.boxingscene.com/golovkin-saunders-unlikely-june-ggg-wait-canelo--115494
> 
> http://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-trainer-weve-fought-smarter-better-foes-golovkin--115484


He's going to stay waiting


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> *Golovkin-Saunders Unlikely For June, GGG To Wait For Canelo*
> 
> http://www.boxingscene.com/golovkin-saunders-unlikely-june-ggg-wait-canelo--115494
> 
> http://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-trainer-weve-fought-smarter-better-foes-golovkin--115484


This sucks, I hate it when good fighters "wait" for big stars. That's why I was glad when Floyd fucked off.

GGG is not getting any younger, I think this is a mistake.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bad decision to wait


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Muff said:


> Don't like that decision at all, if it was indeed a decision on their part not to go through with the June fight. I think all the stuff Canelo has been saying/doing over the months has finally worn thin with GGG and he just wants to shut him up.


it's actually more likely that the manager noticed ggg is on the decline and is forced to take what he can get now before he loses and the canelo money train leaves the station.

ggg has been very vocal that his goal is yo grab all belts and this move is clearly a money play by the manager since i still believe gggs life goal is more important then canelo money...

but you never know money is a big motivator then a fake belt... we already know he'd whoop Saunders and is truly the number 1 guy at 160 so he may just really want that big paycheck specially after the PPV flop.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Canelo vs Saunders coming up


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Don't like GGG waiting for a possible Canelo payday putting off the unification he's been wanting so bad.. Watch him end up not getting the Canelo fight and sit on the shelf for no reason. 

What injury did GGG suffer?


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## TeddyL (Oct 5, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Don't like GGG waiting for a possible Canelo payday putting off the unification he's been wanting so bad.. Watch him end up not getting the Canelo fight and sit on the shelf for no reason.
> 
> What injury did GGG suffer?


General soreness they said


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