# Do you think Juan Manuel Marquez is/was juicing?



## KLion22 (Jun 4, 2013)

This is not meant to be a hate thread. It's just a simple question.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

No way of knowing.


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## ROACH (Jun 6, 2013)

Of course he's juicing. You'd have to be an idiot not to suspect him of it. He went out of his way to higher a strength and conditioning coach with a history of fraudulant practice, in which he specifically designed drug cocktails to defeat olympic style drug testing. He also tried to hide his identity. There are numerous strength and conditioning coaches available, yet he decided to go with this guy? Also, the Bradley scandal is another indication. Why is he so afraid to use VADA testing? Even personal traits of Marquez lead me to believe he would juice. I mean, the guy drank his own piss and ate his own shit. How is that not an indication?


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## KLion22 (Jun 4, 2013)

ROACH said:


> Of course he's juicing. You'd have to be an idiot not to suspect him of it. He went out of his way to higher a strength and conditioning coach with a history of fraudulant practice, in which he specifically designed drug cocktails to defeat olympic style drug testing. He also tried to hide his identity. There are numerous strength and conditioning coaches available, yet he decided to go with this guy? Also, the Bradley scandal is another indication. Why is he so afraid to use VADA testing? Even personal traits of Marquez lead me to believe he would juice. I mean, the guy drank his own piss and ate his own shit. How is that not an indication?


All valid points. I'm not a JMM lover or hater. I respect his boxing skills immensely but when I sit back and analyze this situation, I come to the conclusion that he was juicing for the reasons you mentioned to go along with his sudden increase in power against a common opponent who he never had hurt in 3 previous fights. He might've stunned Pac a few times but that was it. No KD or KO but in their last fight, he gets a vicious KD and a vicious KO win. Also, his frame looked much more cut up and bulked of late. Now, that can be the result of proper S&C but when you look at the overall picture, it just doesn't seem good for JMM.


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## Gunner (Jun 4, 2013)

I love JMM but of course I think he is. There is no _proof_, no.

But everything else points toward it being true

He hired a known PED expert. He seems to possess all of a sudden, some sort of immense power in his shots.

I mean, there would be a suspicion of him being on performance enhancing drugs after hiring a man known to deal them, but then the level in which his performance actually seemed to be enhanced :lol: cmon

Add to that, the apparently shady situation with Bradley

If it was ANYBODY else I would say yes, so yes, I think he is, I also think a lot of others are, however


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

KLion22 said:


> All valid points. I'm not a JMM lover or hater. I respect his boxing skills immensely but when I sit back and analyze this situation, I come to the conclusion that he was juicing for the reasons you mentioned to go along with his sudden increase in power *against a common opponent who he never had hurt in 3 previous fights*. He might've stunned Pac a few times but that was it. No KD or KO but in their last fight, he gets a vicious KD and a vicious KO win. Also, his frame looked much more cut up and bulked of late. Now, that can be the result of proper S&C but when you look at the overall picture, it just doesn't seem good for JMM.


Now that's just a false statement.

Like I said in another thread. JMM had always been able to at least stun Pacquiao. A few inches closer with his lead foot in 2004 with this shot, and he might have achieved the exact same results.










Or 2008, with a left:










I also can't envision a situation in which Pac running right into a perfectly timed overhand right like he did doesn't drop him.

Clearly he added muscle, but he buzzed Pac before without it.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

And for those saying JMM's power increase was "miraculous", pay closer attention to his KOs, of which he has a ratio higher than Pacquiao:






Feel free to think JMM is on PED's. Heredia has a past involving PED's and JMM is in much better shape for welterweight, in a sport where many fighters are on illegal drugs. But don't make such accusations on wrong statements.


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## KLion22 (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Now that's just a false statement.
> 
> Like I said in another thread. JMM had always been able to at least stun Pacquiao. A few inches closer with his lead foot in 2004 with this shot, and he might have achieved the exact same results.
> 
> ...


Read the sentence after the bolded part.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Doesn't Pac looked like he has juiced himself? They should have random blood test done during camp when they first suspect it.... People whinning about it later really serves no point.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

KLion22 said:


> Read the sentence after the bolded part.


Stunning someone is hurting them. And sometimes it's a fine line between being stunned, and being knocked off your feet, which Pac came pretty close to with the same punch years earlier.


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## Gunner (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> And for those saying JMM's power increase was "miraculous", pay closer attention to his KOs, of which he has a ratio higher than Pacquiao:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Come on Bogo, I'm well aware of JMM's KO ratio. I'm also aware of his power above 135

The man has 1 KO in 7 fights above LW and it was after he hired Memo. He was not a power puncher in any of these last 6 fights. In the 7th, he seemed to be. He probably beat Pacquiao worse than he has in any of the four fights in their third (in terms of domination) and saw no such success he hit him with the exact same punches on multiple occasions, and Pac was just as reckless and off balance....the power was clearly different in the fourth fight.

I mean I don't like to jump on the whole, peds = instant results but come on, it's hardly a 'wrong statement'

It's entirely possible he has gradually adjusted to the weight, or was in better physical shape than ever, and I may be inclined to believe it if the guy he hired wasn't the Pablo Escobar of PEDs.

Again, I don't want to slander the mans name, but if you put a gun to my head and ask me yes or no, it's yes.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Gunner said:


> Come on Bogo, I'm well aware of JMM's KO ratio. I'm also aware of his power above 135
> 
> The man has 1 KO in 7 fights above LW and it was after he hired Memo. He was not a power puncher in any of these last 6 fights. In the 7th, he seemed to be. He probably beat Pacquiao worse than he has in any of the four fights in the third (in terms of domination) and saw no such success....the power was clearly different in the fourth fight.
> 
> ...


That's fair, I wasn't trying to shit on your post in particular. I think he augmented his power at welter, I just think it's equally possible he did it naturally as it is that he did unnaturally. He wasn't demonstrating one-punch KO power at 135, you're correct, I just wanted to emphasize that he's had natural power all his career. Gun to my head I might answer the same, I just operate on innocent until proven guilty.


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## Gunner (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> That's fair, I wasn't trying to shit on your post in particular. I think he augmented his power at welter, I just think it's equally possible he did it naturally as it is that he did unnaturally. He wasn't demonstrating one-punch KO power at 135, you're correct, I just wanted to emphasize that he's had natural power all his career. Gun to my head I might answer the same, I just operate on innocent until proven guilty.


Nah I agree with you


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## KLion22 (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Stunning someone is hurting them. And sometimes it's a fine line between being stunned, and being knocked off your feet, which Pac came pretty close to with the same punch years earlier.


Now we are getting into semantics.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Honestly, I have no idea. 
Looking at a picture, he looked like he had the whole HGH/Steroid belly going on - no one really has a belly like that unless they're roiding. 
BUT, he says he hasn't, AND the roiding IMO wouldn't have made a difference as the shots he practiced were the ones I saw on a sparring session clip, as well as the fact that he dropped Pac using a combo that he used back in 2004, except, this one landed better and Pac was a little displaced. 
The KO was all about physics.


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

You know, the only people who I think suspect others of PEDS are people who've never achieved their own physical goals.

Marquez has barely changed in his performance and I'd say his age shows in all his fights.

But because he knocks out Pac with a very technical and timed punch.. now he is on PEDs.



He could be, but there is nothing from his performance IMO that says he is.


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## Side Step (Aug 7, 2013)

KLion22 said:


> This is not meant to be a hate thread. It's just a simple question.


Out of the 3 that said no, 2 of them is Bogotazo, the other one is Zopiolte


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

Side Step said:


> Out of the 3 that said no, 2 of them is Bogotazo, the other one is Zopiolte


You calling me Bogotazo son?! :fire


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## Side Step (Aug 7, 2013)

ROACH said:


> Of course he's juicing. You'd have to be an idiot not to suspect him of it. He went out of his way to higher a strength and conditioning coach with a history of fraudulant practice, in which he specifically designed drug cocktails to defeat olympic style drug testing. He also tried to hide his identity. There are numerous strength and conditioning coaches available, yet he decided to go with this guy? Also, the Bradley scandal is another indication. Why is he so afraid to use VADA testing? Even personal traits of Marquez lead me to believe he would juice. I mean, the guy drank his own piss and ate his own shit. How is that not an indication?


 In Marquez's defense, he never ate his own shit. He did however drink his own urine, which might have had some type of shit in it, but the feces of shit you speak of him consuming, I'd have to say you're wrong about that. At least on camera and on record, he's never eaten his own shit. But other points you make are spot on.


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## Side Step (Aug 7, 2013)

KLion22 said:


> All valid points. I'm not a JMM lover or hater. I respect his boxing skills immensely but when I sit back and analyze this situation, I come to the conclusion that he was juicing for the reasons you mentioned to go along with his sudden increase in power against a common opponent who he never had hurt in 3 previous fights. He might've stunned Pac a few times but that was it. No KD or KO but in their last fight, he gets a vicious KD and a vicious KO win. Also, his frame looked much more cut up and bulked of late. Now, that can be the result of proper S&C but when you look at the overall picture, it just doesn't seem good for JMM.


I tell people that all the time, the hail mary ko punch wasn't the big surprise, chalk that punch to perfect timing. But that 1st knock down where he threw a He-man punch and Pacquiao flew off his feet and landed on his ass is the suspect one. Mosley connect a right against Pacquiao (as hard as it may seem to believe, he actually did land a right) and Pacquiao only budged back, but now all of a sudden this 40 year old Marquez is able to do it? Speaking of which, you mention his body, and his body is already showing belly fat, a trait that steroid users tend to have as well.


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## Side Step (Aug 7, 2013)

Gunner said:


> I love JMM but of course I think he is. There is no _proof_, no.
> 
> But everything else points toward it being true
> 
> ...


Not only that, switch the roles. If Bradley hired a known steroid cheat, all the Marquez urine drinkers would be crying that Bradley was on steroids right


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## Side Step (Aug 7, 2013)

KLion22 said:


> Read the sentence after the bolded part.


Don't even bother with him fam, Marquez can shoot himself up the butt right in front of him while sippin on a Urine Neat and he will still be in denial. Not even worth it no more. He said make a poll, and so far, he's the only one who voted for Marquez not being roided lol


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## ROACH (Jun 6, 2013)

browsing said:


> You know, the only people who I think suspect others of PEDS are people who've never achieved their own physical goals.
> 
> Marquez has barely changed in his performance and I'd say his age shows in all his fights.
> 
> ...


LOL. No, you're just naïve and young. There is a reason there aren't many 40 year old elite boxers, especially in the lower weight divisions. In this case, not only is he elite mentally, but elite physically.

When you turn 39, come back and tell me all of this is obtainable.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Absolutely not.
But Pacquaio and the Klitschkos most definitely are.

Only JMM,Floyd and Froch can be trusted,and the reason I know that to be an irrefutable fact is that they happen to be my top 3 right now.

And the age thing is not a given as Bernard is not juicing.Nothing at all to do with the fact he's in my top 6.


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## ROACH (Jun 6, 2013)

Marquez is a great fighter though, one of the best of all time.


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## Side Step (Aug 7, 2013)

Lightweight fighters retire young due to all of the wars. Baseball players retire once they get up there in age at about 38ish. We're talking about a boxer, in the light weights, with many wars, who is still "elite" (somehow after one hail mary punch) at age 40. When a baseball player, who is ready to retire, miracously becomes better with age (barry bonds), it's easy for people to say he's on roids. But in this situation, Marquez, Bogotazo still says no? So Alex Rodriguez never took steroids too since he's never been tested positive. Innocent until proven guilty right guys, A Rod has never been found guilty on any tests so who cares what people say about him.


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## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

Pains me to say it, but I think he is.


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## doylexxx (Jun 9, 2012)

ROACH said:


> Of course he's juicing. You'd have to be an idiot not to suspect him of it. He went out of his way to higher a strength and conditioning coach with a history of fraudulant practice, in which he specifically designed drug cocktails to defeat olympic style drug testing. He also tried to hide his identity. There are numerous strength and conditioning coaches available, yet he decided to go with this guy? Also, the Bradley scandal is another indication. Why is he so afraid to use VADA testing? Even personal traits of Marquez lead me to believe he would juice. I mean, the guy drank his own piss and ate his own shit. How is that not an indication?


Good Post Price Peters


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

The main thing that makes me suspect him is the whole situation with Bradley, but that could be Arum screwing around also. I don't think his performance against Pacquiao is any good indication at all or his physical transformation. Take a guy who's never lifted weights his whole life and make him cut weight to make 126, 130 and 135 and then let him eat more and lift weights to make 147 pounds, he's of course going to gain muscle.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Uncle Rico said:


> Pains me to say it, but I think he is.


I'm in your camp, and Bogotazo's .gifs are more evidence against him than for him. I put I don't know, but holy shit, Bogo's .gifs made me lean towards him haven taken steroids. I'm a huge fan of Marquez, but he's most likely been 'roiding.


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## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

I don't think so. I haven't filled in on Bradley-Marquez lately but there wasn't any reason for me to believe so before, same with Pac. People gotta stay consistent


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> The main thing that makes me suspect him is the whole situation with Bradley, but that could be Arum screwing around also. I don't think his performance against Pacquiao is any good indication at all or his physical transformation. Take a guy who's never lifted weights his whole life and make him cut weight to make 126, 130 and 135 and then let him eat more and lift weights to make 147 pounds, he's of course going to gain muscle.


One thing that gives me comfort is that if he were roiding, I know he's much smarter than to ever trust Bob Arum with tainted NSAC results. He's been royally screwed before by Bob, in his place, I wouldn't be surprised for a second for Bob to blow my cover and rescue the image of his cash cow.

"It's business."


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Innocent until proven guilty.

and if he is, oh well, he wouldn't be the only one, plus PED's don't give you boxing skills, which is what JMM has used to get where he's at today. No amount of roids would ever give him the ability to land that perfectly timed shot right at the perfect spot...that shit takes skills my friend.


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## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

I don't think he's doing anything your average big name isn't doing or avoiding doing anything your average big name isn't avoiding.


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## nufc_jay (Jun 4, 2012)

Boxed Ears said:


> I don't think he's doing anything your average big name isn't doing or avoiding doing anything your average big name isn't avoiding.


no


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> One thing that gives me comfort is that if he were roiding, I know he's much smarter than to ever trust Bob Arum with tainted NSAC results. He's been royally screwed before by Bob, in his place, I wouldn't be surprised for a second for Bob to blow my cover and rescue the image of his cash cow.
> 
> "It's business."


yeah that's a very good point. If Arum finds out Juan was roiding, he's expose it in a second.


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## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

nufc_jay said:


> no


...I miss you too, my brother. ...I miss you too.


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## igor_otsky (Jul 24, 2012)

They all eat PED for breakfast.





pork
eggs
dairy


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## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

"Juiced" PAC in 6.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah that's a very good point. If Arum finds out Juan was roiding, he's expose it in a second.


Exactly. I mean you have the argument that Heredia's shit is "undetectable", but even Conte said that the carbon isotope ratio testing was the way to catch fighters, and that's what they're doing.


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

its boxing, he is until proven innocent.

who gives a shit pac was juicing too


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## Boxing Fanatic (Jun 5, 2013)

conte was on romes show i believe. and he said all the top boxers in the world right now r on it. rome asked him how do u know that. he said because they come to me


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## burn1 (Jun 4, 2013)

In these times, no excuse not to do *the tests*!


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## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

I used to be told on a regular basis on ESB by a certain set of "fans" that if you have never failed a test then that is conclusive evidence that you are clean


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> Innocent until proven guilty.
> 
> and if he is, oh well, he wouldn't be the only one, plus PED's don't give you boxing skills, which is what JMM has used to get where he's at today. No amount of roids would ever give him the ability to land that perfectly timed shot right at the perfect spot...that shit takes skills my friend.


Exactly.I've never heard of a steroid that can make you punch harder.
He fucked up putting the weight on for Floyd( and no, it wouldn't have made a difference), learned from it, and did it the correct way.
And bball makes an excellent point about the fact he's cutting all his career and then doesn't have to.In the days where the little guys were on the way down at 28 they knew they didn't have the same speed/pop/reflexes etc at the higher weights but with the advances that have been made,a lot of the little guys can move up and carry on,with Marquez being a top example.
This is a bit like the argument about Hopkins.
Could it not just be that economy of energy and movement along with a supreme boxing brain could explain why he's still going?


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

yes just like i believe pacquiao mayweather and bradley are too


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

oibighead said:


> I used to be told on a regular basis on ESB by a certain set of "fans" that if you have never failed a test then that is conclusive evidence that you are clean


and you used to regularly argue like the dumb fuck you are with said fans about how you can still be on PEDs even if you pass tests... what's changed?


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah that's a very good point. If Arum finds out Juan was roiding, he's expose it in a second.


either bob arum doesn't know or he's in on it.


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Exactly. I mean you have the argument that Heredia's shit is "undetectable", but even Conte said that the carbon isotope ratio testing was the way to catch fighters, and that's what they're doing.


I like to stay upto date with the world of PED's but the way things are every time i miss a few week of reading so much more new information comes out which i can't keep up with.

Here's something interesting you might be interested in... Ever hear of GHRP? (growth hormone releasing peptide) basically it's a peptide which when injected makes your body release it's natural GH when combined with a growth hormone releasing hormone that natural release is amplified x8 it is not a drug as this is natural so no testing protocol can pick it up...

now the even more interesting thing is when you're taking GHRP/GHRH and you take synthetic HGH with it your body doesn't 'register' it as synthetic hormones as it enters your body while your natural growth hormones are being released therefor it can't be picked up by any test as synthetic growth hormones.

the PED world is very interesting so much to learn.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Boxing Fanatic said:


> conte was on romes show i believe. and he said all the top boxers in the world right now r on it. rome asked him how do u know that. he said because they come to me


that's such a retarded thing for him to admit after he already got in deep crap for BALCO


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Relentless said:


> I like to stay upto date with the world of PED's but the way things are every time i miss a few week of reading so much more new information comes out which i can't keep up with.
> 
> Here's something interesting you might be interested in... Ever hear of GHRP? (growth hormone releasing peptide) basically it's a peptide which when injected makes your body release it's natural GH when combined with a growth hormone releasing hormone that natural release is amplified x8 it is not a drug as this is natural so no testing protocol can pick it up...
> 
> ...


that's tight as hell. What side effects are there to GHRP


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Relentless said:


> I like to stay upto date with the world of PED's but the way things are every time i miss a few week of reading so much more new information comes out which i can't keep up with.
> 
> Here's something interesting you might be interested in... Ever hear of GHRP? (growth hormone releasing peptide) basically it's a peptide which when injected makes your body release it's natural GH when combined with a growth hormone releasing hormone that natural release is amplified x8 it is not a drug as this is natural so no testing protocol can pick it up...
> 
> ...


Wouldn't the testosterone ratios by way out of whack with that?


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> that's tight as hell. What side effects are there to GHRP


since peptides have been out for a relatively short amount of time (10-20 years) there's not really any studies on long term effects but there are actually no side effects recorded currently for them. GHRP6 (the first generation ghrp out) the side effect is intense hunger straight after injecting but thats been fixed on the GHRP2 (the second generation ghrp).

If synthetic HGH are taken with ghrp the usual side effects that you'd get from HGH dont happen because your body is fooled into thinking it is natural as the HGH enters the body at the same time you're releasing your natural GH.


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Wouldn't the testosterone ratios by way out of whack with that?


growth hormones and testosterone aren't synergistic. Thats why often testosterone is ran at the same time as HGH


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> that's tight as hell. What side effects are there to GHRP


dude, its synthetic. It will probably fuck your body up in the long run like Meth. Wait for the long term studies to come out. People are paying their soul for the devil for stuff like this..


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Exactly.I've never heard of a steroid that can make you punch harder.
> He fucked up putting the weight on for Floyd( and no, it wouldn't have made a difference), learned from it, and did it the correct way.
> And bball makes an excellent point about the fact he's cutting all his career and then doesn't have to.In the days where the little guys were on the way down at 28 they knew they didn't have the same speed/pop/reflexes etc at the higher weights but with the advances that have been made,a lot of the little guys can move up and carry on,with Marquez being a top example.
> This is a bit like the argument about Hopkins.
> Could it not just be that economy of energy and movement along with a supreme boxing brain could explain why he's still going?


This is the thing; none of what's going on in the ring is inexplicable besides a steroids argument. No steroid gives you such a boost that it makes you do things that were never done before on a physical level in boxing. This isn't the high jump or the shot put or a sprint.


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

DobyZhee said:


> dude, its synthetic. It will probably fuck your body up in the long run like Meth. Wait for the long term studies to come out. People are paying their soul for the devil for stuff like this..


it's not synthetic it's a peptide...a protein which activates your own natural growth hormones


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## Yungboy (Jun 5, 2013)

Why can't boxers just eat healthy instead of taking drugs. Quinoa is great for protein.


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

Yungboy said:


> Why can't boxers just eat healthy instead of taking drugs. Quinoa is great for protein.


black people eat quinoa?:huh


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

Relentless said:


> it's not synthetic it's a peptide...a protein which activates your own natural growth hormones


dude, I need this shit then..

what if you don't have any natural growth hormones?


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## Yungboy (Jun 5, 2013)

DobyZhee said:


> black people eat quinoa?:huh


All black people eat exacly alike...


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Yungboy said:


> Why can't boxers just eat healthy instead of taking drugs. Quinoa is great for protein.


Quinoa may provide protein, but it doesn't make the body more efficient at using that protein for muscle synthesis.

I just had a thought: Is Bradley shooting himself in the foot by doing triple testing? JMM is doing USADA and the NSAC, Bradley is using those two plus VADA, if I remember right. That's three different organizations being able to knock on your door at any given time and take blood. I remember when they took Mosley's against Mayweather, it was a whole vial or two, not just a teaspoon or whatever. The constant poking in the arms and loss of blood may pause certain things in camp if they happen to come too close together. Just a thought, curious as to how much is too much.


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## Libertarian (Jun 2, 2012)

VADA is the only body with any credibility.


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## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

Relentless said:


> and you used to regularly argue like the dumb fuck you are with said fans about how you can still be on PEDs even if you pass tests... what's changed?


Who the fuck are you? :huh


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## ROACH (Jun 6, 2013)

Fuck PEDs. REAL DUDES don't need that bullshit. REAL DUDES can train anywhere, even on some gay ass motorbike. No PEDs necessary.


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

oibighead said:


> Who the fuck are you? :huh


the guy you idolize to be:deal


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## gyllespie (Jun 17, 2013)

He is suspicious. But leave him alone. It's bad enough he doesn't get the credit he deserves (imo he should be a PPV star by now but he isn't). He isn't any more suspicious than Nonito Donaire who at one point was working with Conte and was showing incredible KO power. If you're gonna point your finger aim at those who refuse stringent drug testing because at this point all we can ask is for fighters to take and pass the best test available.


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> This is the thing; none of what's going on in the ring is inexplicable besides a steroids argument. No steroid gives you such a boost that it makes you do things that were never done before on a physical level in boxing. This isn't the high jump or the shot put or a sprint.


that's pretty much it. No PED's will make malignaggi punch like thurman nor maidana as fast as pacquiao nor will it teach you to time a punch nor counter punch precisely.


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

Yungboy said:


> Why can't boxers just eat healthy instead of taking drugs. Quinoa is great for protein.


they do eat healthy peds arent a substitute they're additions.


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## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

Relentless said:


> the guy you idolize to be:deal


:rolleyes Not clever or funny tbh


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Dinamita said:


> VADA is the only body with any credibility.


yes because it was founded by this guy



Boxing Fanatic said:


> conte was on romes show i believe. and he said all the top boxers in the world right now r on it. rome asked him how do u know that. he said because they come to me


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

I think the majority are JMM definitely included in that.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Relentless said:


> since peptides have been out for a relatively short amount of time (10-20 years) there's not really any studies on long term effects but there are actually no side effects recorded currently for them. GHRP6 (the first generation ghrp out) the side effect is intense hunger straight after injecting but thats been fixed on the GHRP2 (the second generation ghrp).
> 
> If synthetic HGH are taken with ghrp the usual side effects that you'd get from HGH dont happen because your body is fooled into thinking it is natural as the HGH enters the body at the same time you're releasing your natural GH.


would you have to switch to the synthetic kind or could you just stay with the peptides


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## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

Everyone is on the juice except for Paulie Malignaggi


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

oibighead said:


> :rolleyes Not clever or funny tbh


doesn't change the fact your pasty white ass wants to be me.


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## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

Relentless said:


> doesn't change the fact your pasty white ass wants to be me.


:lol: as if


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> would you have to switch to the synthetic kind or could you just stay with the peptides


No you don't have to you can stay on peptides for as long as you want. Although synthetic HGH is more effective and of course much much more expensive.

unless you can get pharmaceutical grade HGH most of it is fake or underdosed etc etc and pharma grade costs thousands so most intermediate level athletes or amateurs stick to ghrp's.

I'm currently using GHRP to recover from my shoulder injury in my right arm which is nearly better after using for a month. I had the exact same injury on my left arm which took about 2 years to fully recover.


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

oibighead said:


> :lol: as if


you know it i've seen how you hate your own peeps and how you love people who have more money and look better than you. You probably saw my pics in the lounge and my cars that's why wanna be me.:deal


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Relentless said:


> No you don't have to you can stay on peptides for as long as you want. Although synthetic HGH is more effective and of course much much more expensive.
> 
> unless you can get pharmaceutical grade HGH most of it is fake or underdosed etc etc and pharma grade costs thousands so most intermediate level athletes or amateurs stick to ghrp's.
> 
> I'm currently using GHRP to recover from my shoulder injury in my right arm which is nearly better after using for a month. I had the exact same injury on my left arm which took about 2 years to fully recover.


I don't need it now, but in the future, I think I'll look more into that. I remember my friend trying to convince me to buy some 160 dollar bs from GNC that would naturally increase my testosterone and HGH :lol:

I didn't buy it luckily, but I know it wouldn't be as effective as the peptides


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## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

Relentless said:


> you know it i've seen how you hate your own peeps and how you love people who have more money and look better than you. You probably saw my pics in the lounge and my cars that's why wanna be me.:deal


Just finished having dinner mate, did yours come out the microwave? :hey


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> I don't need it now, but in the future, I think I'll look more into that. I remember my friend trying to convince me to buy some 160 dollar bs from GNC that would naturally increase my testosterone and HGH :lol:
> 
> I didn't buy it luckily, but I know it wouldn't be as effective as the peptides


read up on peptides brah I'll give you some links to some basic information later tonight.

supplement companies are always advertising products to do what steroids or HGH does but it's all bullshit.


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## Side Step (Aug 7, 2013)

oibighead said:


> Just finished having dinner mate, did yours come out the microwave? :hey


nice breasts....and ain't talking about the chicken....aw fuck it, those are some nice titties


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## Carpe Diem (Jun 6, 2013)

It's possible. He was in the best shape of his career for that fight. It's very unlikely for an athlete to be in the best shape of his life in his late 30's than he was in his 20's.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Carpe Diem said:


> It's possible. He was in the best shape of his career for that fight. It's very unlikely for an athlete to be in the best shape of his life in his late 30's than he was in his 20's.


He's looked MUCH better. JMM of the 2nd Pac fight is even a bit past it.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Relentless said:


> read up on peptides brah I'll give you some links to some basic information later tonight.
> 
> supplement companies are always advertising products to do what steroids or HGH does but it's all bullshit.


thanks, maybe I should take them now and hope I grow a couple inches :lol:


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

oibighead said:


> I used to be told on a regular basis on ESB by a certain set of "fans" that if you have never failed a test then that is conclusive evidence that you are clean


When a baseless accusation is constantly used as a means to antagonize and discredit a mans career while in his prime as well as the supporter base you deserved the appropriate reaction.

i bet many would say there was cause for suspicion given how mannys careers turned out. But at the time the roids slur campaign was way out of line


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

oibighead said:


> Just finished having dinner mate, did yours come out the microwave? :hey


cool made up story ******


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> thanks, maybe I should take them now and hope I grow a couple inches :lol:


Listen man.. Peptides are 100% safe there are no side effects BUT there are no studies on the long term effects on them.

Anything you decide to take read up as much as you can about it, don't rely on forums and other peoples opinions, read actual studies with actual documentations.

I've wanted to take GHRP for years because of my previously injured shoulder but i never understood it properly and was too lazy to read up on it but after i injured my right shoulder i didn't wanna go through the same long process again so I studied peptides and steroids as much as i could until i got an understanding of it.


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## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> When a baseless accusation is constantly used as a means to antagonize and discredit a mans career while in his prime as well as the supporter base you deserved the appropriate reaction.
> 
> i bet many would say there was cause for suspicion given how mannys careers turned out. But at the time the roids slur campaign was way out of line


Yeh, it was used as ammo for one side against another. Alot was said.

But, personally I do think JMM is suspicious (same as manny was)


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## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

Relentless said:


> cool made up story ******


Enjoy your 'cars' mate :lol:


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

oibighead said:


> Enjoy your 'cars' mate :lol:


hey my car pictures contain me driving the cars with my name on the number plates your pasty white ass doesn't even have the balls to show his face coz you're an ugly motherfucker. :deal


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Relentless said:


> Listen man.. Peptides are 100% safe there are no side effects BUT there are no studies on the long term effects on them.
> 
> Anything you decide to take read up as much as you can about it, don't rely on forums and other peoples opinions, read actual studies with actual documentations.
> 
> I've wanted to take GHRP for years because of my previously injured shoulder but i never understood it properly and was too lazy to read up on it but after i injured my right shoulder i didn't wanna go through the same long process again so I studied peptides and steroids as much as i could until i got an understanding of it.


thanks for the advice man. Are they expensive. I'm a cheap guy :yep


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## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

Relentless said:


> hey my car pictures contain me driving the cars with my name on the number plates your pasty white ass doesn't even have the balls to show his face coz you're an ugly motherfucker. :deal


Its really cute and all that you are trying to boast about your life online to someone you dont even know. Im seriously impressed, really.

But I just heated up my jacuzzi and am about to get in, so have a good evening fella. :thumbsup


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

oibighead said:


> Its really cute and all that you are trying to boast about your life online to someone you dont even know. Im seriously impressed, really.
> 
> But I just heated up my jacuzzi and am about to get in, so have a good evening fella. :thumbsup


I'm just telling my fan about some of the things i own:hey


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

and cool google image pic brah


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## ROACH (Jun 6, 2013)

oibighead said:


> Its really cute and all that you are trying to boast about your life online to someone you dont even know. Im seriously impressed, really.
> 
> But I just heated up my jacuzzi and am about to get in, so have a good evening fella. :thumbsup


Is your girl topless in that photo?


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## ROACH (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> thanks for the advice man. Are they expensive. I'm a cheap guy :yep


What the fuck is wrong with you? Getting on all that bullshit? Damn, I guess you really are a rich boy, college kid. Why don't you just work out and put on muscle? It ain't hard.


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

ROACH said:


> What the fuck is wrong with you? Getting on all that bullshit? Damn, I guess you really are a rich boy, college kid. Why don't you just work out and put on muscle? It ain't hard.


from what i've seen dude is already muscular and ripped as fuck.


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## Yungboy (Jun 5, 2013)

What are some drugs that can make you hit harder?


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## ROACH (Jun 6, 2013)

Relentless said:


> from what i've seen dude is already muscular and ripped as fuck.


Maybe you ain't seen right because why would he be talkin about putting more shit on when he already got it? He tryin to look like one of them gay ass bodybuilders?


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## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

ROACH said:


> Is your girl topless in that photo?


No, bikini :lol:


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## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

Relentless said:


> and cool google image pic brah


Only because you've been begging to see my white ass for ages. Google me bro. :lol:










Im gonna stop doing this now, moron. :rofl


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## ROACH (Jun 6, 2013)

Damn, ya'll rich mother fuckers.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Relentless said:


> that's pretty much it. No PED's will make malignaggi punch like thurman nor maidana as fast as pacquiao nor will it teach you to time a punch nor counter punch precisely.


Right, and steroids won't make the biggest guy in the gym hit 50 homeruns. But what if that big guy already has the tools? Won't the steroids help, THEN? Didn't steroids help Bonds get to 73? Why can't similar gains be made in boxing, provided the user is already gifted?


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

he is not on peds. why would he risk it. You work out and build the upper body it will show. It is hard work. Not peds.


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## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

I don't know if Marquez could live with himself having KO'd Pacquiao needing the help of juicing, especially when he was mostly getting his ass handed to him this time around. Then again, he could see it as retribution for Pacquiao's apparent PED using. Who knows, but I don't doubt he did a lot of strength work, he's hit that shot on Pacquiao previously so the strength could've just been the reason he KO'd him, along with the shots Pacquiao's taken at WW recently (and he's done well to take them, but shots from Mosley/Cotto/Margarito aren't without lasting effects.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Flash Jab said:


> I don't know if Marquez could live with himself having KO'd Pacquiao needing the help of juicing, especially when he was mostly getting his ass handed to him this time around. Then again, he could see it as retribution for Pacquiao's apparent PED using. Who knows, but I don't doubt he did a lot of strength work, he's hit that shot on Pacquiao previously so the strength could've just been the reason he KO'd him, along with the shots Pacquiao's taken at WW recently (and he's done well to take them, but shots from Mosley/Cotto/Margarito aren't without lasting effects.


So why didn't Marquez KTFO Fedchenko?

No he isn't juicing, he was always a bad style for Pacquiao and Pacquiao got comfy fighting tailor mades and wash ups.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

MAG1965 said:


> he is not on peds. why would he risk it. You work out and build the upper body it will show. It is hard work. Not peds.


Why are you so sure?


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> Right, and steroids won't make the biggest guy in the gym hit 50 homeruns. But what if that big guy already has the tools? Won't the steroids help, THEN? Didn't steroids help Bonds get to 73? Why can't similar gains be made in boxing, provided the user is already gifted?


of course it helps the difference isn't as significant as a featherfisted boxer becoming a dynamite puncher.



MAG1965 said:


> he is not on peds. why would he risk it. You work out and build the upper body it will show. It is hard work. Not peds.


why wouldn't or shouldn't he do it? and if he were to admit to using peds would you hate him for it?


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

Flash Jab said:


> I don't know if Marquez could live with himself having KO'd Pacquiao needing the help of juicing, especially when he was mostly getting his ass handed to him this time around. Then again, he could see it as retribution for Pacquiao's apparent PED using. Who knows, but I don't doubt he did a lot of strength work, he's hit that shot on Pacquiao previously so the strength could've just been the reason he KO'd him, along with the shots Pacquiao's taken at WW recently (and he's done well to take them, but shots from Mosley/Cotto/Margarito aren't without lasting effects.


He couldn't live with himself?:rofl

boxing fans are the naivest people around.

actually it might not just be boxing i saw on TV people crying when lance armstrong admitted using PEDs:lol:


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Relentless said:


> of course it helps the difference isn't as significant as a featherfisted boxer becoming a dynamite puncher.


So can they help a good puncher become a dynamite puncher?


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

oibighead said:


> Only because you've been begging to see my white ass for ages. Google me bro. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> So can they help a good puncher become a dynamite puncher?


it can help a good puncher become a more harder hitter who can punch hard for longer and load up on shots quicker but that's also to do with the types of training that goes into it.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Relentless said:


> *He couldn't live with himself?*:rofl
> 
> boxing fans are the naivest people around.
> 
> actually it might not just be boxing i saw on TV people crying when lance armstrong admitted using PEDs:lol:


Right :rofl :rofl :rofl

The horror of having millions of dollars and a ticket to the IBHOF. How would he sleep?


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Why are you so sure?


They test them for it, and he just looks like he is getting bigger and stronger. This peds paranoia was started by Floyd to get advantage over Manny and use it as a way not to fight him.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

Relentless said:


> of course it helps the difference isn't as significant as a featherfisted boxer becoming a dynamite puncher.
> 
> why wouldn't or shouldn't he do it? and if he were to admit to using peds would you hate him for it?


would I hate him for it? No.. But I would wonder why he thought he would need that. I just don't think he is using peds.


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

MAG1965 said:


> would I hate him for it? No.. But I would wonder why he thought he would need that. I just don't think he is using peds.


why wouldn't he need it? if he can become stronger, faster, have better endurance and stamina and agility why not?


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## Jonnybravo (Jun 4, 2013)

Defo been on insulin as he has a slin gut


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

This thread could be anyone though


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

I think so, but so are many other fighters. I am in favor of year-round random testing for all top boxers.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Can anyone provide news or an update as to the testing fiasco for the Bradley fight? Having been on the road for a while, haven't kept up. Last I recall, TB wanted either USADA or VADA, and to this date, been nothing? Thanks all!


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## DaCrooked (Jun 6, 2013)

Nope. Pac **** need to let it go and accept that their fighter's amateurish skills and charging in face first got him KOed. You don't run face first into right hand from a pro boxer and expect not to get KOed.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

DaCrooked said:


> Nope. Pac **** need to let it go and accept that their fighter's *amateurish skills *and charging in face first got him KOed. You don't run face first into right hand from a pro boxer and expect not to get KOed.


Let's not say stupid shit the other way now.


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

MAG1965 said:


> They test them for it, and he just looks like he is getting bigger and stronger. This peds paranoia was started by Floyd to get advantage over Manny and use it as a way not to fight him.


are you aware that the toughest and most strictest testing protocols have been previously beaten?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Mal said:


> Can anyone provide news or an update as to the testing fiasco for the Bradley fight? Having been on the road for a while, haven't kept up. Last I recall, TB wanted either USADA or VADA, and to this date, been nothing? Thanks all!


Apparently Bradley is doing double (or maybe even triple) testing with VADA, USADA, and the NSAC.

Here's an article:

*Will Arum's proposed Nevada testing endanger Marquez vs. Bradley?
By Gabriel Montoya*

*There's no question that once WBO welterweight champion Timothy Bradley and the legendary Juan Manuel Marquez are done hitting each other October 12 at the Thomas & Mack Center in Las Vegas, Nevada, we'll have a potential "Fight of the Year" on our hands., However, there is a question whether the fight will happen at all. While it's has been officially announced, there is a question as to who will conduct anti-doping tests for the fight. The answer to that question may very well decide if the fight takes place or not.

Amidst the pleasant Top Rank press conference at the old school opulent Beverly Hills Hotel, Timothy Bradley, dressed sharply in a blue-grey tailored summer suit, sporting a beard with his signature bald head was a fiery king on Thursday. He wasn't so much answering questions regarding who would be handling the testing so much as laying down the law of his particular kingdom: VADA and USADA testing as per his contract or no fight.

"It's USADA and VADA," Bradley told a gathered group of reporters as a production assistant mic'd him up for interview sessions with HBO and ESPN. "It's both. Both companies is in my contract."

"Bob just told me thirty minutes ago you aren't doing either," I informed the champ.

"No. We are," he glared.

"I'm just telling you what Bob told me," I said, getting a glimpse into what he has in store for Marquez October 12.

"I don't care what Bob say," he said with a shrug and headed off for his next close-up, every bit "The Champ."

(The full exchange courtesy of @InlandEmpireBox Alex Martinez 



)

Heading into his previous fight, against Ruslan Provodnikov, Bradley had declared all future opponents would submit to random blood and urine testing throughout training camp and after the fight. When the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) declined to conduct testing for the contest, the Voluntary Anti-Doping Association (VADA) stepped in. Satisfied with their work and perhaps turned off by the less than spotless track record of USADA testing in professional boxing, most notably the case of Erik Morales vs. Danny Garcia 2 (http://www.maxboxing.com/news/max-b...oy-and-positive-drug-test-management-part-one), Bradley asked for VADA heading into this fight.

Marquez asked for USADA testing and a compromise was made to do both.

"I don't know how you do VADA and USADA in the same fight," Arum said to me after the press conference.

Using both presents a significant issue considering that both agencies collect blood and urine samples to be tested as many as eight times a camp. In this scenario, VADA and USADA could both take blood samples at the time. While the samples taken may not overall seem terribly excessive, that is still a lot of needles going into both men throughout the testing period.

"I thought about it but I don't care. I don't care," said Bradley about the amount of blood to be taken.

Thirty minutes previous to speaking with Bradley, Bob Arum had told me and two other reporters that the VADA/USADA compromise was now at an impasse. He had decided that neither VADA nor USADA would be used. In their place will be a testing protocol based on VADA and USADA's paid for by Bob Arum and presumably designed by someone at the Nevada Athletic Commission.

"Neither side can agree on VADA or USADA so we're having Nevada do the testing, I'll pay for it and that it," said Arum. "The Nevada commission is taking over the testing. Who they use and what they use, etc. except they are going to do complete random blood and urine testing. For this fight."

"For this fight" raises a question that as of print time, the NAC member contacted, Bill Brady, had not responded to: Is changing the anti-doping protocol for one single fight against commission rules? This is not the same scenario as having an independent anti-doping agency testing in addition to a local commission's testing on the night of a fight. Allowing the fight camps to have such a stipulation is within the rules. But a state commission allowing its protocols and standards to be changed for one fight only at a promoters' expense raises questions.

"The idea . . . we talked to the Nevada commission and they are going to do it as vigorously as VADA and USADA do it, maybe more so," said Arum. "This is not something for a promoter. This is something for the regulatory commission. And as long as [testing] is totally vigorous, these fighters don't understand. There's no VADA. No USADA. As long as the testing is the same as [those agencies] are doing, as long as the tests are administered by the commission, that's as good as you're going to get."

That's not necessarily true. In a logical and perfect world, the state commissions charged with overseeing boxing would follow WADA Code and have anti-doping testing that is both year round and state-of-the-art. But this is boxing which is very far from logic or perfection. Each state has different rules about everything. Some states don't test at all. And when they do, it's not a lock they'll test for PEDs. Some only test for recreational drugs.

The truth is that whenever USADA or VADA have been conducting tests for fights in Nevada or elsewhere, both agencies conducted more stringent and state-of-the-art testing than any state commission. That's because each group uses World Anti-Doping Agency-accredited sample collectors and labs. Nevada uses Quest Diagnostics, which uses neither WADA-trained and accredited sample collectors or labs. The labs USADA and VADA use, either the UCLA Olympic Testing Lab or the Sports Medicine Research and Testing Laboratory (SMRTL) in Salt Lake City, Utah, can conduct tests for drugs of choice like the endurance building blood doping agent EPO, or Human Growth Hormone (HGH) and synthetic testosterone. Quest Diagnostics does not have that capability.

"So maybe they'll use another lab for this," said Arum when I explained this to him.

That Arum did not know this rudimentary detail raises yet another important question: who is designing this protocol that will, according to Arum, be based on VADA and USADA's? Who is the "PED expert" in charge of detailing what drugs need to be tested for and how often? It took VADA roughly a year to put together its protocols with people such as WADA co-founder Richard Pound, former Tower of Power bass player, BALCO founder and anti-doping activist Victor Conte as well as co-creators of CIR Dr. Rodrigo Aguilera and Dr. Don Catlin weighing in at various stages along the way. In the recent Lucian Bute-Jean Pascal promotion, testing was also an issue. Unable to come to an agreement over VADA versus USADA, both promotional companies lost valuable testing time as they tried to come to an agreement, find a lab and put together a protocol agreed upon by all parties.

The point is that it's not as easy as paying someone to "do it like VADA or USADA."

Another question is whether or not this promotion's testing protocol will follow WADA Code or Nevada's. For example, WADA allows for a 4:1 T/E ratio which is in essence, an allowance of four times the amount of testosterone that your body produces, at any given time in or out of competition. Nevada has a 6:1 T/E ratio for reasons still unclear.

http://www.maxboxing.com/news/max-boxing-news/new-york-nevada-and-the-61-te-ratio-problem-in-boxing-

Nevada also has a controversial recent history of allowing therapeutic use exemptions (TUE) for synthetic testosterone for MMA fighters. In several cases, the TUE was not revealed until after the bout. Could that happen here?

Arum said he had spoken to both Nevada chairman Bill Brady and Executive Director Keith Kizer about the plan, which apparently began forming last week.

"They said to me that as long as I pay for it, they will do testing as extensive, if not more so, as those organizations do," stated Arum. "If that means, using another lab, they have no contract with the labs they are using."

The validity of the latter statement remains to be seen.

Arum raised the idea that this new proposed testing, paid for by Arum, is the way to go. The commission gets the money they need for better testing, the fighters get the assurance that their opponent is clean and the sport's health and safety gets an upgrade. For one night.

"The only role I have is to pay for it," said Arum. "And this is the only solution for this drug testing. Otherwise, there is no solution. Otherwise, you have crazy shit like what happened in Brooklyn with Morales because there is no state authority. I'm a lawyer. I understand what state authority means. Now the commission acts on the basis of state authority. It's a legally authorized regulatory body and they have to handle everything regarding a fight and if the fighters want drug testing, they are the ones that should do it. They can't do it half-assed. They have to do it real."

But let's remember: this is for one fight only. Once this fight is over, so is Arum's payment for better testing. The commission will return to its normal protocols.

"It's wrong for the promoter to be involved, except to pay for it, and it's wrong for these organizations, without any authority to do it, because all you do is confusion, said Arum, referring to the cases of Andre Berto and Lamont Peterson, two fighters who tested positive for banned substances prior to their respective rematches last year. "Now, if God forbid somebody comes up positive and the commission is handling it, then the commission rules whichever way the commission rules."

This feels like a red herring argument. The decision to use Nevada, despite Tim Bradley's contract which says otherwise, has nothing to do with VADA's effectiveness or ineffectiveness as a testing organization. In the cases of Berto and Peterson, both fighters tested positive for banned substances under VADA testing and both saw their million dollar fights cancelled because of it. Neither man was punished for their offense by a state commission for the offense.

In the case of Peterson, when he tested positive, he admitted he had synthetic testosterone in his system when he initially fought and beat Amir Khan for his junior welterweight titles. Despite that admission, the D.C. commission never punished Peterson and instead gave him a license to fight there the next year. Berto was given a pass for having Nandrolone in his system in a private California commission hearing.

If we are discussing everyone doing their correct jobs, (testers testing, regulators regulating, promoters promoting), then the blame in those failures must fall firmly on the D.C. and California commissions not the testing agency who successfully carried out their mission.

Those precedents those raise another question: If a fighter tests positive prior to the bout, is the fight off?

"Not necessarily. Not necessarily," Arum said. "Maybe somebody is a positive before the fight and there is an explanation for the positive that the commission will accept. And the commission will say "Ok we'll fine you and the fight goes on." It's the commission that decides under their rules."

That is an odd reply considering Arum stated that he did not want what happened in Brooklyn with Morales and Garcia 2 to happen in this fight. Morales tested positive twice for Clenbuterol in the weeks leading up to his fight with Danny Garcia yet was allowed to fight by the New York State Athletic Commission, USADA and the promoter of record Golden Boy. Arum's reply sounds a lot like what happened in Brooklyn.

The future complicity of other state commissions regarding "Arum Testing," remains to be seen. It's uncertain how each will react to Arum telling them his fighter thinks they're not up to standard (whatever that standard that is deemed to be) and so here is payment for better testing, the details of which is to be handled by . . . who exactly?

"If the state commissions have other rules, then they will follow their other rules," said Arum. "I know the Nevada commission has its rules and we will follow its rules. But they are the regulatory authority for this fight. And whatever they decide they decide. Now if in New York there are other rules, I would go and say we were doing the fight in New York and the fighters wanted drug testing, I'd go to Malvena [Lathan, Executive Director of the New York State Athletic Commission] and say "get your medical people to do it the same way that USADA and VADA do it and all the results go to you and you handle it. And she would probably say 'Ok as long as you are going to pay for it, we'll do it."

Again, the latter statement remains to be seen.

With Tim Bradley and his manager Cameron Duncan confirming that VADA and USADA testing is in Bradley's contract (Bradley's wife, Monica, confirmed the same in Lance Pugmire's L.A. Times piece on the subject), the question remains: what happens next?

None of this appears to bring clarity to the cloudy issue of anti-doping testing in boxing. Arum is not solving the problem but instead he is essentially creating yet another agency for one night only. Perhaps all this raises the most important question of all: A boxing promoter paying a state commission directly to oversee stringent anti-doping tests for his multi-million dollar main event? What could possibly go wrong?*


----------



## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Apparently Bradley is doing double (or maybe even triple) testing with VADA, USADA, and the NSAC.
> 
> Here's an article:


I believe that info is out of date. Both Bradley and Marquez are doing the enhanced NSAC testing Arum is paying for. Bradley is paying out of pocket for VADA testing for himself (which seems to undermine the notion that it was in fact contractually guaranteed to him). USADA is not testing either fighter because they claim they have a rule against testing alongside another agency. Both fighters have begun the NSAC testing and presumably Bradley has with VADA as well.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

poorface said:


> I believe that info is out of date. Both Bradley and Marquez are doing the enhanced NSAC testing Arum is paying for. Bradley is paying out of pocket for VADA testing for himself (which seems to undermine the notion that it was in fact contractually guaranteed to him). USADA is not testing either fighter because they claim they have a rule against testing alongside another agency. Both fighters have begun the NSAC testing and presumably Bradley has with VADA as well.


Right, Bradley said in that video he's testing VADA out of his own pocket.

That's a dumb rule on USADA's part.

Then again, the double (or triple) testing could be a lot of needles and a lot of blood...


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Apparently Bradley is doing double (or maybe even triple) testing with VADA, USADA, and the NSAC.
> 
> Here's an article:
> 
> ...


Hey, thanks Bogotazo! I read this a little bit back on Max I think. I saw someone say it's out of date at this point, but don't know for certain. Thanks though! I don't know if marquez is on anything legal or illegal, or just some supplements most don't know about. But while his physical prowess is out of the ordinary for a pro athlete, he's not an ordinary athlete. JMM is one to be appreciated for now. Should something prove naysayers correct in the future, that too will be written in the annals of prosperity,


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Mal said:


> Hey, thanks Bogotazo! I read this a little bit back on Max I think. I saw someone say it's out of date at this point, but don't know for certain. Thanks though! I don't know if marquez is on anything legal or illegal, or just some supplements most don't know about. But while his physical prowess is out of the ordinary for a pro athlete, he's not an ordinary athlete. JMM is one to be appreciated for now. Should something prove naysayers correct in the future, that too will be written in the annals of prosperity,


:thumbsup


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Right, Bradley said in that video he's testing VADA out of his own pocket.
> 
> That's a dumb rule on USADA's part.
> 
> Then again, the double (or triple) testing could be a lot of needles and a lot of blood...


From everything I have been able to get my eyes one on the net, and yes, I realize how crazy that sounds , I haven't found anything realistic to oppose VADA testing procedures over USADA. All I can think of is VADA is still relatively new as a tester. So not really that hard to see why some may choose a more established entity like USADA. These guys are businessmen and think like businessmen first. But they are still fans.  You don't get into the biz to this level without loving it.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Mal said:


> From everything I have been able to get my eyes one on the net, and yes, I realize how crazy that sounds , I haven't found anything realistic to oppose VADA testing procedures over USADA. All I can think of is VADA is still relatively new as a tester. So not really that hard to see why some may choose a more established entity like USADA. These guys are businessmen and think like businessmen first. But they are still fans. You don't get into the biz to this level without loving it.


Some say JMM wants the comfort of USADA because Angel works there, others say Conte (who works for VADA) has beef with Angel so they might not want to go with VADA, but with the NSAC, JMM isn't safe if he's dirty and gets caught.


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## godsavethequeen (Jun 12, 2013)

I ain't voting. Even though he KO'd Pac I would like to think he did it on his ability. JMM is a ATG as is Pac, shame JMM wants no part of a 5th fight though.
How many times did Robinson fight LaMotta 6 times


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Some say JMM wants the comfort of USADA because Angel works there, others say Conte (who works for VADA) has beef with Angel so they might not want to go with VADA, but with the NSAC, JMM isn't safe if he's dirty and gets caught.


Not surprising. Little petty, personal beefs have been the bane of boxing as far as I can remember. It's a sport of egos, both in the ring, and out. And one side wants to win, both inside and out.


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

Mal said:


> Hey, thanks Bogotazo! I read this a little bit back on Max I think. I saw someone say it's out of date at this point, but don't know for certain. Thanks though! I don't know if marquez is on anything legal or illegal, or just some supplements most don't know about. But while his physical prowess is out of the ordinary for a pro athlete, he's not an ordinary athlete. JMM is one to be appreciated for now. Should something prove naysayers correct in the future, that too will be written in the annals of prosperity,


Here's the most up-to-date article I've seen on the issue, though the author is much more optimistic about the NSAC testing than me: http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles-frontpage/17060-source-bradley-marquez-ped-tests-begin


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## DaCrooked (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Let's not say stupid shit the other way now.


Nothing stupid about asshole. Pac does amateur shit and it got him KOed.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

DaCrooked said:


> Nothing stupid about asshole. Pac does amateur shit and it got him KOed.


Pac's flawed but nobody gets to that level on just being fast and hitting hard. He's got solid skills. Plenty of maneuvers to let him land his left, counter with his right, and circle away from opponent's shots.


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## Salty Dog (Jun 5, 2013)

If he did, it was to level the playing field. 

In light of the self -righteous mewling that accompanied the failed Pac -Floyd negotiations, I find the topic quite ridiculous.

KTFO6. Deal with it.


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

Salty Dog said:


> If he did, it was to level the playing field.
> 
> In light of the self -righteous mewling that accompanied the failed Pac -Floyd negotiations, I find the topic quite ridiculous.
> 
> KTFO6. Deal with it.


deal with what?

is being a ped user a bad thing? why are you acting like your mother died or something deal with it.


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Apparently Bradley is doing double (or maybe even triple) testing with VADA, USADA, and the NSAC.
> 
> Here's an article:
> 
> ...


sounds to me like bradley is the one with something to hide.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Relentless said:


> sounds to me like bradley is the one with something to hide.


I think he fucked up somehow and VADA/USADA wasn't actually in his contract. Wouldn't be surprised if Arum just told him he was and Bradley didn't check himself. It would explain why JMM said extra testing wasn't in the contract and claimed Bradley was showing fear.


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## DaCrooked (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Pac's flawed but nobody gets to that level on just being fast and hitting hard. He's got solid skills. Plenty of maneuvers to let him land his left, counter with his right, and circle away from opponent's shots.


He has some skills, but he still does a lot of amateurish tactics. Pacquaio is clearly faster, stronger, and more powerful than Marquez and yet he went life and death with him everytime until he finally got stopped. Why?? Because he low level skills and ring IQ, compared to elites like Mayweather, JMM, Hopkins etc..


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

DaCrooked said:


> He has some skills, but he still does a lot of amateurish tactics. Pacquaio is clearly faster, stronger, and more powerful than Marquez and yet he went life and death with him everytime until he finally got stopped. Why?? Because he low level skills and ring IQ, compared to elites like Mayweather, JMM, Hopkins etc..


Just because he's not among the very smartest doesn't mean he's unskilled. That was my point. If he only had amateurish skills, JMM wouldn't have had to work for his wins and it wouldn't be an ATG victory, which it is.


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## Salty Dog (Jun 5, 2013)

Relentless said:


> deal with what?
> 
> is being a ped user a bad thing? why are you acting like your mother died or something deal with it.


Huh?


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

Salty Dog said:


> Huh?


don't play dumb bitch ass white boy.


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## Don Simon (Jun 5, 2013)

I hope not. But suspicions have been raised.


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## Collie (Aug 16, 2013)

DaCrooked said:


> He has some skills, but he still does a lot of amateurish tactics. Pacquaio is clearly faster, stronger, and more powerful than Marquez and yet he went life and death with him everytime until he finally got stopped. Why?? Because he low level skills and ring IQ, compared to elites like Mayweather, JMM, Hopkins etc..


Styles make fights too, don't forget.

I think JMM is probably on something, as are many/most top boxers and sportspeople.


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## Salty Dog (Jun 5, 2013)

Relentless said:


> don't play dumb bitch ass white boy.


no you


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## On the Money (Jun 10, 2013)

He's not been caught, just like the guy he knocked out.


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## Yungboy (Jun 5, 2013)

Now that I look at his body In there third fight, and his body in their 4th fight, I don't see a drastic difference. His arms looked bigger, he could of just had better conditioning this time around.

I don't know if its true, but my dad told me Marquez took 4 months to prepare for that fourth fight. Sometimes motivation can put you into really good shape. I don't put it past nobody cheating, but I don't think I should assume everybody's a cheat either. Some people have morals and I know if I was fighting competivly I'd never use any kind PED.


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## Jonnybravo (Jun 4, 2013)

Like Tyson said at any top level sport, people will do anything to get that edge to win. So stop being so naive that boxers would not do it!


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## Side Step (Aug 7, 2013)

Jonnybravo said:


> Like Tyson said at any top level sport, people will do anything to get that edge to win. So stop being so naive that boxers would not do it!


The guy drank his own urine and "ate his own shit" (according to several posters here), so taking steroids doesn't seem like an unlikely possibility of doing anything to get that edge, drinking urine and "ate his own shit" is "doing anything to get that edge" as is.


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## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

Yungboy said:


> Now that I look at his body In there third fight, and his body in their 4th fight, I don't see a drastic difference. His arms looked bigger, he could of just had better conditioning this time around.
> 
> I don't know if its true, but my dad told me Marquez took 4 months to prepare for that fourth fight. Sometimes motivation can put you into really good shape. I don't put it past nobody cheating, but I don't think I should assume everybody's a cheat either. Some people have morals and I know if I was fighting competivly *I'd never use any kind PED*.


thats coz you're young and naive... not a bad thing of course but I've sniffed coke and taken ecstasy/mdma so PEDs doesn't sound like a big deal to me.


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## Gunner (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> The main thing that makes me suspect him is the whole situation with Bradley, but that could be Arum screwing around also. I don't think his performance against Pacquiao is any good indication at all or his physical transformation. Take a guy who's never lifted weights his whole life and make him cut weight to make 126, 130 and 135 and then let him eat more and lift weights to make 147 pounds, he's of course going to gain muscle.


I kind of agree that it's well within Arums scope to intentionally fuck Juan over in this fashion and cast suspicion on him

However that still leaves the issue with Memo


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Gunner said:


> I kind of agree that it's well within Arums scope to intentionally fuck Juan over in this fashion and cast suspicion on him
> 
> However that still leaves the issue with Memo


true, it sucks he has to associate himself with him. Memo is highly qualified working with former Gold Medal Track stars and he speaks spanish, so it works perfectly, but he's also known as the guy who "has made over 20 undetectable drugs"


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## KLion22 (Jun 4, 2013)

57% say yes. Only 17% say no.


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