# Malignaggi: "Floyd is TBE"



## ~Cellzki~ (Jun 3, 2013)

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=new-yorkboxing&id=4758&city=newyork&src=desktop

"I think Floyd beats everyone in history, and anyone who doesn't realize that by now is stubborn, blind, stupid, or all three," he told NYFightblog. "He is the best ever."*

"Me and Floyd are not friends, I don't need to say this if I truly don't believe it,"

"I learned that way before the Canelo fight, but this kind of convinced me fully,"*

- Paulie

Discuss...


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## burn1 (Jun 4, 2013)

Figures ole feather duster Paulie would push this. It kind of ups his own stock.

Doesn't influence me one bit though. 

I'm the biggest Floyd fan of all, but I don't rate him TBE, just yet. Now when Ali's own daughter, herself an undefeated ATG, said Floyd is better(more complete) than her own father, that's a lot of ammunition.


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## ^_^ (Sep 2, 2013)

SHO's the source of money that pays for his tanning sessions and eyebrow work. Paulie also said that Pac was the GOAT ever if he beat Cotto(e).


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## PrinceN (Jun 4, 2013)

Hopkins said top 3 Paulie says TBE


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

So that's Paulie Malignaggi, Bernard Hopkins, Johnny Nelson, Teddy Atlas and an ESPN Boxing analyst, so far who say he's Top 3 minimum.


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

The Best Ever P4P or WW? 
Quite frankly he is neither.
B-Hop and RJJ both rank higher than him in the P4P spectrum and I don't think Floyd is a bettter WW than SRL, Sweetpea, Trinidad, nor Oscar, definitely isn't anywhere close to a ATG 154lber.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> The Best Ever P4P or WW?
> Quite frankly he is neither.
> B-Hop and RJJ both rank higher than him in the P4P spectrum and I don't think Floyd is a bettter WW than SRL, Sweetpea, Trinidad, nor Oscar, definitely isn't anywhere close to a ATG 154lber.


I'm almost certain they're talking H2H here.


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

He's not the best ever, BUT I can say CONFIDENTLY that he would have a chance against ANYONE from 130-147, and hell even 154 with how he looked last night. Actually not everyone, I highly doubt he could beat Hearns. H2H, if you say okay if you grabbed him and made him Hearns size, then yes he could beat him... but I don't see anyway, Mayweather would beat hearns given the height, reach, speed, and most importantly, dat jab. How would Mayweather be able to take away dat jab??? Hell nah. Hearns was a better boxer than SRL, SRL couldn't outbox him... SRL had to go for broke and become a puncher in a fight he was on his way to losing, in order to beat Hearns. Mayweather simply does not have the power. I believe its possible that he could outbox SRL, but SRL could also beat him.


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## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

He's in my top 10, and top 3 in terms of impressiveness on film. I don't think he'd ever catch Roy Jones, but he is a truly special talent.


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## Abraham (May 9, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> The Best Ever P4P or WW?
> Quite frankly he is neither.
> B-Hop and RJJ both rank higher than him in the P4P spectrum and I don't think Floyd is a bettter WW than SRL, Sweetpea, Trinidad, nor Oscar, definitely isn't anywhere close to a ATG 154lber.


WHAT??? :lol:


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Ugh.

Jones Jr
Robinson
Leonard
Mayweather
Whitaker

Best I've seen on film. Sorry Muhammad :conf


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

People are getting really hyped over this Canelo win.

There's a difference between looking great, and being great. Mayweather certainly _is_ great, but people are running away with how good he looks beating who he beats and forgetting there are plenty who have beat better.


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## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Ugh.
> 
> Jones Jr
> Robinson
> ...


:lol::lol::rofl:roflatsch

I love pissing off casual mainstream fans by saying Floyd is better than Muhammad


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> :lol::lol::rofl:roflatsch
> 
> I love pissing off casual mainstream fans by saying Floyd is better than Muhammad


:lol: People get legitimately mad at it :rofl :rofl

He's right there though :yep


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## Boxing Fanatic (Jun 5, 2013)

u cant compare prime floyd to prime ali. u just cant. prime ali probably best ever


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## BoxingAnalyst (Jun 4, 2012)

:rofl

I like Paulie but he's talking bollocks. Could you imagine Tommy Hearns fighting Mayweather at 147? he'd absolutely muller him. So would a handful more other Welterweights.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

You know what. Fuck it. I agree with Paulie :smoke until the hype of this fight draws down


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Boxing Fanatic said:


> u cant compare prime floyd to prime ali. u just cant. prime ali probably best ever


Stop.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Ali is better than Money May. 

But Mayweather is in my Top 10 without a doubt.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

BoxingAnalyst said:


> :rofl
> 
> I like Paulie but he's talking bollocks. Could you imagine Tommy Hearns fighting Mayweather at 147? he'd absolutely muller him. So would a handful more other Welterweights.


Meh, don't necessarily agree with Hearns beating Mayweather even though I know Hearns has got the style to cause Mayweather real problems.
Griffith, LMR, Napoles doesn't beat him either IMO. Not Gavilan either.


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

no not really. an i trained with paulie.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Robert Garcia and Mikey Garcia say he's TBE





 :smile


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Bare in mind guys, these guys all know who Pernell Whitaker is..


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## Gunner (Jun 4, 2013)

Not a single fighter in his eight class would ever "muller Floyd"


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> People are getting really hyped over this Canelo win.
> 
> There's a difference between looking great, and being great. Mayweather certainly _is_ great, but people are running away with how good he looks beating who he beats and forgetting there are plenty who have beat better.


Not really... every other week there is more and more people believe he is the best. Trainers to fighters.
Hell i've been saying that for going on 7 years.


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## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Robert Garcia and Mikey Garcia say he's TBE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Floyd's a clever marketing genius. He creates the term TBE, and many people buy into the concept. Once you name something, it comes into consciousness and becomes "real" to people.

Had he used the term GOAT and declare himself that it would have fallen on deaf ears, being a powerful word.

It's sort of like how people will say there was some creative accounting instead of fraud


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> People are getting really hyped over this Canelo win.
> 
> There's a difference between looking great, and being great. Mayweather certainly _is_ great, but people are running away with how good he looks beating who he beats and forgetting there are plenty who have beat better.


100%, guess for a person like me who was never sold on Canelo this shit pisses me off, Floyd is great one of the best technical fighters of my life time, but it is ridiuclous to try to claim he is the best ever, especially from his work at 147 and 154 when the best person he fought in those weight classes was Zab Judah at 147 after he lost to Carlos Baldomir.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> Floyd's a clever marketing genius. He creates the term TBE, and many people buy into the concept. Once you name something, it comes into consciousness and becomes "real" to people.
> 
> Had he used the term GOAT and declare himself that it would have fallen on deaf ears, being a powerful word.
> 
> It's sort of like how people will say there was some creative accounting instead of fraud


Nah. I thought he had GOAT skills believe he even started the GOAT talk. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people feel the same way but it was still to early back when he was 130-135.

I didn't even know anything about the "TBE" until saturday's fights and the gracia interview was months ago.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> Floyd's a clever marketing genius. He creates the term TBE, and many people buy into the concept. Once you name something, it comes into consciousness and becomes "real" to people.
> 
> Had he used the term GOAT and declare himself that it would have fallen on deaf ears, being a powerful word.
> 
> It's sort of like how people will say there was some creative accounting instead of fraud


yeah it's a beautiful idea by Floyd. I learned about this in the past with Ali and T.I. calling himself the king of the south. Or Lil Wayne pronouncing himself the best rapper alive.

Floyd keeps repeating it and prints off this phrase on hats, people will start believing it.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> Floyd's a clever marketing genius. He creates the term TBE, and many people buy into the concept. Once you name something, it comes into consciousness and becomes "real" to people.
> 
> Had he used the term GOAT and declare himself that it would have fallen on deaf ears, being a powerful word.
> 
> It's sort of like how people will say there was some creative accounting instead of fraud


I get what you mean but think about it, he's in the same tier as Whitaker as a defensive fighter. Whitaker is one of the very best ever. Mayweather I believe has a greater boxing brain than Whitaker, and thus can disarm his opponents.

@turbotime...I really don't see prime Oscar beating Floyd anymore. I dropped that idea a few weeks back by the way, not post-Canelo.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Not really... every other week there is more and more people believe he is the best. Trainers to fighters.
> Hell i've been saying that for going on 7 years.


As I said, people enamoured with how good he looks rather than who he beat. There's 0 reason to have him above Duran or Leonard or Robinson or Ali.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> @turbotime...I really don't see prime Oscar beating Floyd anymore. I dropped that idea a few weeks back by the way, not post-Canelo.


I don't either. If I was a betting man my money would be on Mayweather. His consistency is just so amazing and Oscar frankly was inconsistent as a boxer and fought down from his level a lot. I mean, Oscar has the skills to do it but I'm not betting on it.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Here are some more experts


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Ridiculous, he won a fight that everyone expected him to win !!


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## Trippy (Jun 18, 2013)

I respect Paulie's opinion, whether I disagree or agree with him. He's a top guy.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Vic said:


> Ridiculous, he won a fight that everyone expected him to win !!


because he's TBE :hey


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> As I said, people enamoured with how good he looks rather than who he beat. There's 0 reason to have him above Duran or Leonard or Robinson or Ali.


He got a great resume to back it up though. Not to mention he have been making good to great fighter looks ordinary. You don't see Duran or Leonard, SRR, Ali do that to good to great fighters as well as Floyd does. Yes they got the super big names but they also struggle with lesser guys a lot more.

Not to mention Floyd is one of the fighters that got multiple divisions locked down. There is no one 140-154 that can beat him. How often do we find a fighter that present that type of aura?

Lastly, He is damn good.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Vic said:


> Ridiculous, he won a fight that everyone expected him to win !!


Yeah, I expected it to be a boring shutout and didn't even rule out a stoppage victory for Mayweather, but it was another fight that confirmed what I've always believed about Mayweather...he can lose 5 rounds to an ok opponent and the match can be close, but he'll always win. I had these thoughts after DLH-FMJ. I got to see in that fight reasons why this is the case...what I saw wasn't in just looking at how dominant he was, but WHAT he actually did, just reading Mayweather - and this is why I think he's better than other people may think he is.


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> because he's TBE :hey


I really enjoy Floyd´s performances and I don´t even agree with people saying it was one of his greatest or THE greatest performance. IMO this was not even better than the Mosley performance....
It was a domination because he had the right guy in front of him, a guy with low volume, not really agressive, etc......I was wondering if Canelo could show something new for us, but he didn´t, he was the same Canelo.

However, these type of wins can get bigger with time. I´m thinking about what happened with Roy Jones vs Hopkins I....so, time will tell, who Canelo really is and how important was this win and this performance...


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Here are some more experts


Huge shit from Arum. he's a scumbag snake but he's seen them all.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> He got a great resume to back it up though. *Not to mention he have been making good to great fighter looks ordinary. You don't see Duran or Leonard, SRR, Ali do that to good to great fighters as well as Floyd does.* Yes they got the super big names but they also struggle with lesser guys a lot more.
> 
> Not to mention Floyd is one of the fighters that got multiple divisions locked down. There is no one 140-154 that can beat him. How often do we find a fighter that present that type of aura?
> 
> Lastly, He is damn good.


And there you go, focusing on how he looks.

You can't include 140 because Floyd has never looked up since going there. The rest of 147-154, OK, but Floyd is not the only one to do that, not by far. He missed out on his biggest challenge in Pacquiao to establish supremacy of his era. Marquez doing it for him doesn't cut it.

Beating the greater fighters is exactly what sets those guys apart. You don't lose points for struggling with lesser guys when you've climbed the highest peaks.

So yeah, no argument for TBE.


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## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I get what you mean but think about it, he's in the same tier as Whitaker as a defensive fighter. Whitaker is one of the very best ever. *Mayweather I believe has a greater boxing brain than Whitaker, and thus can disarm his opponents.*
> 
> @turbotime...I really don't see prime Oscar beating Floyd anymore. I dropped that idea a few weeks back by the way, not post-Canelo.


Floyd's defly more focused and professional in there. Pernell spent a lot of time dicking off


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Ugh.
> 
> Jones Jr
> Robinson
> ...





Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> :lol::lol::rofl:roflatsch
> 
> I love pissing off casual mainstream fans by saying Floyd is better than Muhammad


Floyd is not a better boxer than Muhammad Ali. :rolleyes


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> Floyd's defly more focused and professional in there. Pernell spent a lot of time dicking off


Very very true. It got him dropped too when it shouldn't have.


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

Tim Bradley has a better resume at 140 than Floyd, and if he beats JMM he'll have fought better fighters throughout his career than Floyd, which is crazy if you think about it. But think about how people relegate Tim to a fucking after thought, even though the man fucking cleared house at 140 went up beat Manny and if he beats Marquez, would have a pretty solid career resume, definitely HoF worthy.


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## ~Cellzki~ (Jun 3, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> Tim Bradley has a better resume at 140 than Floyd, and if he beats JMM he'll have fought better fighters throughout his career than Floyd, which is crazy if you think about it. But think about how people relegate Tim to a fucking after thought, even though the man fucking cleared house at 140 went up beat Manny and if he beats Marquez, would have a pretty solid career resume, definitely HoF worthy.


But can Timmy beat Floyd?


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## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

~Cellzki~ said:


> But can Timmy beat Floyd?


:lol::lol::rofl:roflatsch


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## BoxingAnalyst (Jun 4, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Meh, don't necessarily agree with Hearns beating Mayweather even though I know Hearns has got the style to cause Mayweather real problems.
> Griffith, LMR, Napoles doesn't beat him either IMO. Not Gavilan either.


Real problems? He'd fucking destroy him mate. I don't see how you can't figure out how bad a stylistic match up Hearns is for Mayweather. He'd ice him early.


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## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Ugh.
> 
> *Jones Jr*
> Robinson
> ...


pffffft


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

~Cellzki~ said:


> But can Timmy beat Floyd?


I honestly believe Timmy is the man at 147 best equipped physically and mentally to beat Floyd.


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## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

mayweather, technically and as an athlete is fucking incredible but he doesnt even fight the best in his own damn era. i dont see how he can be top 3


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

BoxingAnalyst said:


> Real problems? He'd fucking destroy him mate. I don't see how you can't figure out how bad a stylistic match up Hearns is for Mayweather. He'd ice him early.


Vernon Forrest and Cory Spinks would be bad matchups for Floyd as well.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> Vernon Forrest and Cory Spinks would be bad matchups for Floyd as well.


Forrest (rip) is very overrated. Old Quartey was countering and timing him like crazy.


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## BoxingAnalyst (Jun 4, 2012)

Please tell me The Undefeated Gaul is the only one here who thinks Hearns wouldn't destroy Mayweather?


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## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> Floyd's a clever marketing genius. He creates the term TBE, and many people buy into the concept. Once you name something, it comes into consciousness and becomes "real" to people.
> 
> Had he used the term GOAT and declare himself that it would have fallen on deaf ears, being a powerful word.
> 
> It's sort of like how people will say there was some creative accounting instead of fraud


Only simple minded idiots will buy into his dumb marketing concept "TBE"! LMAO SRR is rolling over in his grave!! FFS...


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## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> I honestly believe Timmy is the man at 147 best equipped physically and mentally to beat Floyd.


I agree... and Timmy will most likely beat JMM next month! Hopefully Bob Arum will make the fight.. I think Tim out Boxes Floyd! Bradley UD Floyd.. Easy work!


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Slugger3000 said:


> I agree... and Timmy will most likely beat JMM next month! Hopefully Bob Arum will make the fight.. I think Tim out Boxes Floyd! Bradley UD Floyd.. Easy work!


:rofl:rofl:rofl


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Forrest (rip) is very overrated. Old Quartey was countering and timing him like crazy.


That was the old shot Vernon. He was never the same after the shoulder injury at 147 in his prime, he would trouble Floyd.


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## ATrillionaire (Jun 11, 2013)

Over an entire career, who has lost less rounds than Mayweather? 
He doesn't have the resume to be considered TBE, but H2H, I wouldn't put my money on any fighter in history against him (same weight class).

Around here, great wins are overrated, losses are overlooked, and longevity is unappreciated (it should be one of the most important aspects one can use to judge an ATG career).


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## Golovkinfansarefags (Sep 18, 2013)

Only cunts like Bogo deny Floyd


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> Vernon Forrest and Cory Spinks would be bad matchups for Floyd as well.


You are entitled to your opinions but Spinks?!


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> Vernon Forrest and Cory Spinks would be bad matchups for Floyd as well.


Forrest is a good shout... he had an excellent jab in his prime.


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Forrest (rip) is very overrated. Old Quartey was countering and timing him like crazy.


BUT that was OLD Forrest with a fucked up arm. People don't understand that his career got messed up due to a injury to his shoulder, his left arm.. his jab arm. he had a bad torn rotator cuff injury and had to have like three surgeries.

A completely healthy Forrest is amazing.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Unless he thought Fmjr was the best ever prior to the fight, coming to this conclusion after makes very little sense. It's just Paulies opinion, and I doubt too many would agree. Fmjr is a great fighter, probably the best of his era, but not tbe. Not even close.


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

ATrillionaire said:


> Over an entire career, who has lost less rounds than Mayweather?
> He doesn't have the resume to be considered TBE, but H2H, I wouldn't put my money on any fighter in history against him (same weight class).
> 
> Around here, great wins are overrated, losses are overlooked, and longevity is unappreciated (it should be one of the most important aspects one can use to judge an ATG career).


He usually loses 4 rounds against good opposition, prime Roy didn't lose a single round for damn near 10 years. .

Honestly at WW, I think there are a lot of fighters who would cause him major problems, one off the top of my head who isn't a great fighter but I think would be a hard fight stylistically and physically is my boy Paul Williams.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> BUT that was OLD Forrest with a fucked up arm. People don't understand that his career got messed up due to a injury to his shoulder, his left arm.. his jab arm. he had a bad torn rotator cuff injury and had to have like three surgeries.
> 
> A completely healthy Forrest is amazing.


I felt his wins prior to the Mosley bout were underwhelming. Then he loses twice to Mayorga? Come on. Watch him against that guy on the Trinidad/Hopkins undercard that I forget his name, it was horribly average and nothing stoodout.


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

STB..simply the best.

no TBE for me


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## Blanco (Aug 29, 2012)

DobyZhee said:


> STB..simply the best.
> 
> no TBE for me


Chris Eubank already got a hold of the "simply the best" slogan.


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## MrJotatp4p (May 23, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> He usually loses 4 rounds against good opposition, prime Roy didn't lose a single round for damn near 10 years. .
> 
> Honestly at WW, I think there are a lot of fighters who would cause him major problems, one off the top of my head who isn't a great fighter but I think would be a hard fight stylistically and physically is my boy Paul Williams.


No not Paul. I could possibly agree with you if Williams didn't fight like he was freaking 5ft 7 inches tall. I have never seen a guy with a heavyweight reach fight like he was a small man and Floyd would have tore his ass up.


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

MrJotatp4p said:


> No not Paul. I could possibly agree with you if Williams didn't fight like he was freaking 5ft 7 inches tall. I have never seen a guy with a heavyweight reach fight like he was a small man and Floyd would have tore his ass up.


IF it is at 147 I think Paul takes it actually, stylistically it is a bad matchup because he brings pressure and punches from all angels and has the size to physically impose on Floyd. He also outside of the 1st fight with Quintana has shown that he does not stop throwing unless he is KO'd, so Floyd countering him wouldn't stop his activity. I think it would be a interesting style matchup, not to mention prime Williams had an iron jaw and superhuman stamina and activity.

Not saying he would win or it would be a lock but I think it would have been a hard fight for Floyd.


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## MrJotatp4p (May 23, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> IF it is at 147 I think Paul takes it actually, stylistically it is a bad matchup because he brings pressure and punches from all angels and has the size to physically impose on Floyd. He also outside of the 1st fight with Quintana has shown that he does not stop throwing unless he is KO'd, so Floyd countering him wouldn't stop his activity. I think it would be a interesting style matchup, not to mention prime Williams had an iron jaw and superhuman stamina and activity.
> 
> Not saying he would win or it would be a lock but I think it would have been a hard fight for Floyd.


All good points but I do think with him giving up his height and jab it would render all his other qualities against a guy like Floyd. I like Paul though and I use to always wonder why he didn't just fight tall and throw 200 jabs a fight. SMH


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## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

Boxing Fanatic said:


> u cant compare prime floyd to prime ali. u just cant. prime ali probably best ever


Thats absurd. Of course you can compared them. Ali in his prime was almost stopped by a smaller henry cooper. There are a lot of things floyd does better than ali, a lot. Ali has a hell of a resume, I am not saying floyd is ahead of him, but to say you cant compare the two or to suggest they are not in the same league in terms of talent is insane.


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## pipe wrenched (Jun 4, 2013)

MrJotatp4p said:


> All good points but I do think with him giving up his height and jab it would render all his other qualities against a guy like Floyd. I like Paul though and I use to always wonder why he didn't just fight tall and* throw 200 jabs a fight*. SMH


:yep

Gonna be the same "curse" for that Willie Nelson dude ... Has such physical gifts, but don't use them to his advantage at all :conf


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## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> I honestly believe Timmy is the man at 147 best equipped physically and mentally to beat Floyd.


he'd definitely make Mayweather work


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Paulie has always been on Floyd's jock, and now he gets paid to hype Floyd. Excuse me if this means exactly nothing. Hopkins is still the best of this era and is higher on the ATG rankings, and I still think Pac is higher on the ATG rankings than Floyd due to better competition (I'm more of a Floyd than Pac fan as well). It remains to be seen if Floyd will continue to challenge himself after taking the surprising step up against Canelo. If he did something crazy like beating GGG at middleweight then I wouldn't argue against anything anybody said about Floyd.


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

turbotime said:


> I felt his wins prior to the Mosley bout were underwhelming. Then he loses twice to Mayorga? Come on. Watch him against that guy on the Trinidad/Hopkins undercard that I forget his name, it was horribly average and nothing stoodout.


he arguably beat Mayorga the second fight, imo. and that was with an damaged arm. Mayorga shouldve loss the 2nd fight, watch it again... in any case all because he loss to Mayorga, has no barrings on a fight with Mayweather, which is a completely different type of fight. Hearns loss to Barkley twice, who was crude and not very skilled, but hd power, and loads of heart. your underrating his boxing ability, he's one of those guys who had the tendency of performing at the level of those he fights. even in his TKO loss to Mayorga, he looked like a killer, even Mayorga had to say this black guy hits hard. I dont necessarily know how he loss to him, its a mystery, but i believe he would be trouble for mayweather.... even Uncle Roger said it.


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> IF it is at 147 I think Paul takes it actually, stylistically it is a bad matchup because he brings pressure and punches from all angels and has the size to physically impose on Floyd. He also outside of the 1st fight with Quintana has shown that he does not stop throwing unless he is KO'd, so Floyd countering him wouldn't stop his activity. I think it would be a interesting style matchup, not to mention prime Williams had an iron jaw and superhuman stamina and activity.
> 
> Not saying he would win or it would be a lock but I think it would have been a hard fight for Floyd.


Williams get horribly outboxed, unless he gets smart and starts using his jab and maintains distance, but mix it up to get mayweathers respect. those counters mayweather does with his right wont work if williams doesnt give up his height like an idiot.


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## Royal-T-Bag (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Ugh.
> 
> Jones Jr
> Robinson
> ...


dead on, me too. actually add prime toney when he's on his game and willie pep for me.


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> People are getting really hyped over this Canelo win.
> 
> There's a difference between looking great, and being great. Mayweather certainly _is_ great, but people are running away with how good he looks beating who he beats and forgetting there are plenty who have beat better.


Spot on. It was Canelo Alvarez. A solid, but FAR from great fighter.

Mayweather's one of the all time greats and there's no denying he's a very special fighter, but this TBE talk is reaching the Pacquiao GOAT level circa 2009/2010. It's not warranted. Not at all. And it's fucking laughable.


----------



## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

JMP said:


> Spot on. It was Canelo Alvarez. A solid, but FAR from great fighter.
> 
> Mayweather's one of the all time greats and there's no denying he's a very special fighter, but this TBE talk is reaching the Pacquiao GOAT level circa 2009/2010. It's not warranted. Not at all. And it's fucking laughable.


he is in the running as far as all around skills are concerned, thats fo sho. he aint the best ever, there is more criteria for such a status, one that is impossible for Mayweather at this point unless he goes on to do things which are unexpected. if he went up to 160 fought GGG and Sergio then moved up to 168 and beat Ward... and Froch, hell just Ward.. that would be a crazy achievement... he would definitely in my mind be in the top 15 with this but not TBE. What is feeaking crazy is that RJJ actually did something like that! The guy started his career at 154, and ends up beating a good title holder in ruiz at heavy.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

JMP said:


> Spot on. It was Canelo Alvarez. A solid, but FAR from great fighter.
> 
> Mayweather's one of the all time greats and there's no denying he's a very special fighter, but this TBE talk is reaching the Pacquiao GOAT level circa 2009/2010. It's not warranted. Not at all. And it's fucking laughable.


:bowdown

Thank you!


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> he is in the running as far as all around skills are concerned, thats fo sho. he aint the best ever, there is more criteria for such a status, one that is impossible for Mayweather at this point unless he goes on to do things which are unexpected. if he went up to 160 fought GGG and Sergio then moved up to 168 and beat Ward... and Froch, hell just Ward.. that would be a crazy achievement... he would definitely in my mind be in the top 15 with this but not TBE. What is feeaking crazy is that RJJ actually did something like that! The guy started his career at 154, and ends up beating a good title holder in ruiz at heavy.


I've suggested Mayweather fighting a top middleweight. I would never in a million years hold it against him if he didn't, nor would I hold it against him if he did and ended up losing. The challenge though has so much reward. More than anything the current 140-154 pound crop (which is very historically mediocre) can offer to him and his mythical ranking. It'd be some old school undersized Duran-Hagler/Napoles-Monzon type stuff if he fought Golovkin.

I also think its a shame how casual and bandwagon fans now underrate P4P kings Whitaker and Jones (some fools I've talked to don't even know who Whitaker is and know Jones more for his rap songs). Mayweather is absolutely one of the top fighters I have ever seen on film, but for my money, those two were even better. Wish Roy would've retired after capturing the HW belt or after beating Tarver.


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> :bowdown
> 
> Thank you!


I'd favor Mayweather over Whitaker clearly at 154, but even Sweet Pea beat a better fighter at the weight than Mayweather did last weekend. Of course this opens up the quality of performance vs. quality of opponent debate and which one you weigh more when assessing and comparing victories, but to me, Julio Cesar Vasquez > Canelo Alvarez.


----------



## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

JMP said:


> Spot on. It was Canelo Alvarez. A solid, but FAR from great fighter.
> 
> Mayweather's one of the all time greats and there's no denying he's a very special fighter, but this TBE talk is reaching the Pacquiao GOAT level circa 2009/2010. It's not warranted. Not at all. And it's fucking laughable.


I can't recall anyone but Pacnuts calling Manny the GOAT. I'm not saying Floyd is the GOAT, but I see a lot more professional boxers and pundits claiming he's damn close if not there. IMO it wasn't the fact that Canelo was such a great opponent ( we wont know till his career dwindles down), but rather that Floyd just further illustrated the ability to nullify almost any boxers advantages. No style has beat him in the past and much greater size, along with power, didn't do it either. It seems that in order for Floyd to lose he would have to fight at much greater weight disparities than the equivalent greats like SRR, SRL and RD did.


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> he is in the running as far as all around skills are concerned, thats fo sho. he aint the best ever, there is more criteria for such a status, one that is impossible for Mayweather at this point unless he goes on to do things which are unexpected. if he went up to 160 fought GGG and Sergio then moved up to 168 and beat Ward... and Froch, hell just Ward.. that would be a crazy achievement... he would definitely in my mind be in the top 15 with this but not TBE. What is feeaking crazy is that RJJ actually did something like that! The guy started his career at 154, and ends up beating a good title holder in ruiz at heavy.


Speculation is always required when comparing great athletes from different eras. Fighters don't fight 15 rds anymore nor have same day weigh ins. But, it doesn't take a genius to see that Floyd would have no problem doing either and being second to none on any given day. Anyone who thinks Floyd wouldn't get down and dirty if he was ever put in that position during a fight is deluded. Problem is that his ATG defense stifles opponents offense and no one can out box Floyd. He's like the perfect virus; he'll silently kill you.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

JMP said:


> Spot on. It was Canelo Alvarez. A solid, but FAR from great fighter.
> 
> Mayweather's one of the all time greats and there's no denying he's a very special fighter,* but this TBE talk is reaching the Pacquiao GOAT level circa 2009/2010*. It's not warranted. Not at all. And it's fucking laughable.


No it's not :lol: Literally one person has said he's TBE and there were a ton of know nothing cunts running about saying Manny was the best, ever.


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> I can't recall anyone but Pacnuts calling Manny the GOAT. I'm not saying Floyd is the GOAT, but I see a lot more professional boxers and pundits claiming he's damn close if not there. IMO it wasn't the fact that Canelo was such a great opponent ( we wont know till his career dwindles down), but rather that Floyd just further illustrated the ability to nullify almost any boxers advantages. No style has beat him in the past and much greater size, along with power, didn't do it either. It seems that in order for Floyd to lose he would have to fight at much greater weight disparities than the equivalent greats like SRR, SRL and RD did.


Mayweather's definitely shown the wherewithal to deal with a multitude of styles and challenges, you're right. He's adjusted after difficulty, recovered after being hurt, and somehow seems to be completely unfazed in moments where a lot of fighters would tense up, open up and make careless mistakes, or panic. It's really a pleasure watching him fight, hence me rewatching the Canelo fight Sunday and Monday.

That said, I don't know if he would need to fight at a greater weight disparity to lose than Robinson, Leonard, and Duran. In today's era, sure. I can't see anybody beating him at 147-154. I'd have to go up to Golovkin at 160 to find a guy I'd favor over Mayweather. But historically speaking (and of course all of this is just fantasy), he's never fought an all-time great in their prime. I'm not certain he would beat somebody like Chavez at 135 or guys like Napoles, Whitaker, Duran, etc. At that weight. I wouldn't favor him. At WW, he wouldn't be out of his depth against anybody, but no way could I see him beating equal weight guys with serious physical advantages and their own dynamism like Hearns, Robinson, and Gavilan. Lengthy guys with movement and boxing skills like Rodriguez and Griffith present massive stylistic difficulties for Mayweather. Even a peak Donald Curry would be hell. Forrest is a big problem, along with a number of others at 147. The higher you go up from 130 where I favor Floyd over everybody, the more guys I see being able to defeat him.

It really is a testament to his quality as a fighter than we have to bring up historically brilliant guys like this. Its like an honor in itself. You'd never see somebody starting a debate about Thurman or Alexander against the greats because its like "well no shit they'd get pancaked" haha.


----------



## Abraham (May 9, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> he arguably beat Mayorga the second fight, imo. and that was with an damaged arm. Mayorga shouldve loss the 2nd fight, watch it again... in any case all because he loss to Mayorga, has no barrings on a fight with Mayweather, which is a completely different type of fight. Hearns loss to Barkley twice, who was crude and not very skilled, but hd power, and loads of heart. your underrating his boxing ability, he's one of those guys who had the tendency of performing at the level of those he fights. even in his TKO loss to Mayorga, he looked like a killer, even Mayorga had to say this black guy hits hard. I dont necessarily know how he loss to him, its a mystery, but i believe he would be trouble for mayweather.... even Uncle Roger said it.


In the first fight, Forrest just got caught. In the second, I think he won by a bit, but he just didn't know what do with Mayorga's style. That's what separates a fighter like Vernon from a fighter like Floyd. FMJ would NEVER lose to a guy as poorly skilled as Mayorga. Circular reasoning doesn't always work in boxing, of course. I agree that Forrest may have troubled FMJ a bit, but I don't see him winning.


----------



## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

turbotime said:


> No it's not :lol: Literally one person has said he's TBE and there were a ton of know nothing cunts running about saying Manny was the best, ever.


I'm not going to argue about how many people claimed GOAT or TBE status, but when you have a lot of fans and ESPN polls and "experts" putting them both in the top 5 at one point or another (Pacquiao in 2010, Mayweather now) it's comical. And you can't say these lists are on ability alone because they have Harry Greb in them. And who the fuck is going to rate Greb on ability when all we hhave are newspaper clippings and a couple videos where he resembles a backyard boxer more than a top tier modern pro?


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

JMP said:


> I'm not going to argue about how many people claimed GOAT or TBE status, but when you have a lot of fans and ESPN polls and "experts" putting them both in the top 5 at one point or another (Pacquiao in 2010, Mayweather now) it's comical. And you can't say these lists are on ability alone because they have Harry Greb in them. And who the fuck is going to rate Greb on ability when all we hhave are newspaper clippings and a couple videos where he resembles a backyard boxer more than a top tier modern pro?


Sorry but IMO someone saying Mayweather is the best they've seen is far less ridiculous than people saying Pacquiao is the GOAT period


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## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Sorry but IMO someone saying Mayweather is the best they've seen is far less ridiculous than people saying Pacquiao is the GOAT period


Yes, and I'd agree wholeheartedly with you there. I'm just saying people tend to get caught up in the moment and that things need to be put in and analyzed in proper perspective. I don't care which one is more ridiculous of a statement, I'm saying both are going overboard IMO.

This kind of shit holds true in other sports too. Take Miguel Cabrera is baseball now. One of the ATG peaks, but I've talked to people saying he's the best of their lifetime when in reality he doesn't compare to Barry Bonds and falls short of 1994 Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell. Or in 2010 when people were having Kobe Bryant vs. Michael Jordan debates.

Perspective is all I'm saying. Mayweather IS one of the very greatest (and one of the most impressive on film), but IMO, things have been going a little far in the aftermath of the Canelo victory. If that makes me a hater to anybody, fine. I don't really give a fuck.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

JMP said:


> Yes, and I'd agree wholeheartedly with you there. I'm just saying people tend to get caught up in the moment and that things need to be put in and analyzed in proper perspective. I don't care which one is more ridiculous of a statement, I'm saying both are going overboard IMO.
> 
> This kind of shit holds true in other sports too. Take Miguel Cabrera is baseball now. One of the ATG peaks, but I've talked to people saying he's the best of their lifetime when in reality he doesn't compare to Barry Bonds and falls short of 1994 Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell. Or in 2010 when people were having Kobe Bryant vs. Michael Jordan debates.
> 
> Perspective is all I'm saying. Mayweather IS one of the very greatest (and one of the most impressive on film), but IMO, things have been going a little far in the aftermath of the Canelo victory. If that makes me a hater to anybody, fine. I don't really give a fuck.


Good post, and this hardly makes you a hater.

Is that Jose Naps in your avi?


----------



## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

JMP said:


> Mayweather's definitely shown the wherewithal to deal with a multitude of styles and challenges, you're right. He's adjusted after difficulty, recovered after being hurt, and somehow seems to be completely unfazed in moments where a lot of fighters would tense up, open up and make careless mistakes, or panic. It's really a pleasure watching him fight, hence me rewatching the Canelo fight Sunday and Monday.
> 
> That said, I don't know if he would need to fight at a greater weight disparity to lose than Robinson, Leonard, and Duran. In today's era, sure. I can't see anybody beating him at 147-154. I'd have to go up to Golovkin at 160 to find a guy I'd favor over Mayweather. But historically speaking (and of course all of this is just fantasy), he's never fought an all-time great in their prime. I'm not certain he would beat somebody like Chavez at 135 or guys like Napoles, Whitaker, Duran, etc. At that weight. I wouldn't favor him. At WW, he wouldn't be out of his depth against anybody, but no way could I see him beating equal weight guys with serious physical advantages and their own dynamism like Hearns, Robinson, and Gavilan. Lengthy guys with movement and boxing skills like Rodriguez and Griffith present massive stylistic difficulties for Mayweather. Even a peak Donald Curry would be hell. Forrest is a big problem, along with a number of others at 147. The higher you go up from 130 where I favor Floyd over everybody, the more guys I see being able to defeat him.
> 
> It really is a testament to his quality as a fighter than we have to bring up historically brilliant guys like this. Its like an honor in itself. You'd never see somebody starting a debate about Thurman or Alexander against the greats because its like "well no shit they'd get pancaked" haha.


It's clearly apparent Floyd could never match those past greats just by resume, due to the weaker talent pool at this time, but other factors are strong indicators of how far his talent might get him against ATGs. IMO the only fighter qualities that will be Floyd is someone who can walk through his punches, effectively cut off the ring and have the power to break down his body. He would have to be able to hurt Floyd just by busting up his arms, ribs, etc. In this day in age, that seemingly would only come from a division such as MW or SMW.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JMP said:


> Yes, and I'd agree wholeheartedly with you there. I'm just saying people tend to get caught up in the moment and that things need to be put in and analyzed in proper perspective. I don't care which one is more ridiculous of a statement, I'm saying both are going overboard IMO.
> 
> This kind of shit holds true in other sports too. Take Miguel Cabrera is baseball now. One of the ATG peaks, but I've talked to people saying he's the best of their lifetime when in reality he doesn't compare to Barry Bonds and falls short of 1994 Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell. Or in 2010 when people were having Kobe Bryant vs. Michael Jordan debates.
> 
> Perspective is all I'm saying. Mayweather IS one of the very greatest (and one of the most impressive on film), but IMO, things have been going a little far in the aftermath of the Canelo victory. If that makes me a hater to anybody, fine. I don't really give a fuck.


It'll calm down, and it doesn't really mean anything. This and that ESPN thing has you all out of sorts man. :lol:

OT: 1999-2000 Pedro _was_ the best ever. I saw it. :yep

Yea @LittleRed Deal with it. :deal


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> It'll calm down, and it doesn't really mean anything. This and that ESPN thing has you all out of sorts man. :lol:
> 
> OT: 1999-2000 Pedro _was_ the best ever. I saw it. :yep
> 
> Yea @LittleRed Deal with it. :deal


IMO when fighters, trainers and pundits are claiming or tinkering with the thought him possibly being up in the top 5 and maybe best ever if he wins out impressively, then I don't see the talk settling down. There will be much further analysis into his rank on the ATG list. More metrics will be identified to held assess this effort across barriers such as era differences. Fact is that I have seen a major shift in how many people view Floyds ranking in history. A few years ago he was maybe top 50 and within a few fights pros are talking about him being the best ever H2H.


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## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Good post, and this hardly makes you a hater.
> 
> Is that Jose Naps in your avi?


Yeah. From what I've been reading, he's not doing all that great these days. Apparently he's a bit demented now, too.


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## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> It'll calm down, and it doesn't really mean anything. This and that ESPN thing has you all out of sorts man. :lol:
> 
> OT: 1999-2000 Pedro _was_ the best ever. I saw it. :yep
> 
> Yea @LittleRed Deal with it. :deal


I don't know why, but ESPN shit always gets me going haha. I remember feeling a minute away from a stroke when Skip Bayless would talk about Carmelo being better than LeBron.

1999-2000 Pedro though was Godly. Definitely the best pitcher I've ever seen in my lifetime.

Oh, and I think you mentioned something about this last weekend, but as much of a mindfuck May weather's skills are, his longevity is even more of a mindfuck to me. He's been doing this for 16+ years. I think he's better right now than he was when he fought, say, Ricky Hatton. What 36 year old has handspeed and total body reflexes like Mayweather? His longevity is stupid good.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

JMP said:


> I don't know why, but ESPN shit always gets me going haha. I remember feeling a minute away from a stroke when Skip Bayless would talk about Carmelo being better than LeBron.
> 
> 1999-2000 Pedro though was Godly. Definitely the best pitcher I've ever seen in my lifetime.
> 
> *Oh, and I think you mentioned something about this last weekend, but as much of a mindfuck May weather's skills are, his longevity is even more of a mindfuck to me. He's been doing this for 16+ years. I think he's better right now than he was when he fought, say, Ricky Hatton. What 36 year old has handspeed and total body reflexes like Mayweather? His longevity is stupid good.*


:lol:

I was loaded and really emotional Saturday night. I would've fought a motherfucker who didn't appreciate that display. It was probably the most amped I will ever be again in my lifetime over a boxing match. Serious. Unless he fights Broner.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dillyyo said:


> IMO when fighters, trainers and pundits are claiming or tinkering with the thought him possibly being up in the top 5 and maybe best ever if he wins out impressively, then I don't see the talk settling down. There will be much further analysis into his rank on the ATG list. More metrics will be identified to held assess this effort across barriers such as era differences. Fact is that I have seen a major shift in how many people view Floyds ranking in history. A few years ago he was maybe top 50 and within a few fights pros are talking about him being the best ever H2H.


You seem to think I have an issue with this. :lol:Floyd is my last sporting Hero standing. The time for anyone else passed a good decade ago.


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> You seem to think I have an issue with this. :lol:Floyd is my last sporting Hero standing. The time for anyone else passed a good decade ago.


No, I was just disputing any chance of the "delusional behavior" dying down any time soon, IMO. I welcome such speculation. :rasta


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## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> I was loaded and really emotional Saturday night. I would've fought a motherfucker who didn't appreciate that display. It was probably the most amped I will ever be again in my lifetime over a boxing match. Serious. Unless he fights Broner.


I can only get fucked up for fights that don't mean anything to me. During big fights, I feel like I have to be 100% on top of my game haha. Plus when I've gotten a good deal of liquor in me, there's a good chance I'll walk out on the fight and look to do something belligerent outside instead.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

BoxingAnalyst said:


> Real problems? He'd fucking destroy him mate. I don't see how you can't figure out how bad a stylistic match up Hearns is for Mayweather. He'd ice him early.


No I just don't think so. Mayweather's boxing IQ is greater than Hearns. Benitez managed to survive Hearns with his defensive abilities, I feel that Mayweather is smarter than Benitez. Mayweather is offensively more tactical than Benitez although Benitez has more punching power.

I used to feel Hearns would win, but I think that is taking a surface value approach.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> IMO when fighters, trainers and pundits are claiming or tinkering with the thought him possibly being up in the top 5 and maybe best ever if he wins out impressively, then I don't see the talk settling down. There will be much further analysis into his rank on the ATG list. More metrics will be identified to held assess this effort across barriers such as era differences. Fact is that I have seen a major shift in how many people view Floyds ranking in history. A few years ago he was maybe top 50 and within a few fights pros are talking about him being the best ever H2H.


Meh, IMO, he's going to finish his career next to Roy Jones in terms of ranking i.e 30th ish. Although I personally feel he's better than Whitaker, he doesn't have a monstrous career like Whitaker.


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## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

He is one of the greatest in my opinion. I don't do these p4p lists or have a top 20 list etc. but certainly Mayweather is up there with the very best.


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## Abraham (May 9, 2013)

Mayweather may not be the overall GOAT, but there are things he brings that are on a GOAT level. He is easily a top 5 ATG defensive fighter. The man has been wobbled twice in 17 years of fighting, 45 fights. TWICE! That's quite remarkable. He is top 3 or so in terms of ring IQ.


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## ATrillionaire (Jun 11, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> He usually loses 4 rounds against good opposition, prime Roy didn't lose a single round for damn near 10 years. .
> QUOTE]
> 
> I think it's safe to say that Roy Jones has lost more rounds over a career than FMJ. I rate longevity very highly.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

I do honestly believe that some figures in boxing, especially Golden Boy + Showtime peeps are going to say Mayweather is at least Top 3 because from a business perspective, it really is going to drag in more numbers. 

In real life, he is actually top 10 H2H. 
At his weight classes, who are his opponents?
SRR, SRL, Hearns, Duran, Galivan, Napoles, Whitaker, Chavez, Benitez, Galivan, Griffith, Rodriguez
These are his only real competitors. 
Mayweather is better than Whitaker..although Whitaker probably is a fraction better defensively skilled.
Mayweather is better than Benitez. 
Mayweather would beat Duran. People have been thinking this before the Canelo fight anyway. It's almost blasphemous to say Mayweather would lose to a 135lb Duran. I don't care. 
Mayweather beats Chavez - a lot of people believe that anyway. 
He beats Griffith and Rodriguez, they just don't possess the ring IQ and their physical strength is not something that would worry Floyd too much at welterweight
Mayweather can probably beat Hearns too, possibly
Mayweather would time Napoles


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

JMP said:


> I don't know why, but ESPN shit always gets me going haha. I remember feeling a minute away from a stroke when Skip Bayless would talk about Carmelo being better than LeBron.
> 
> 1999-2000 Pedro though was Godly. Definitely the best pitcher I've ever seen in my lifetime.
> 
> Oh, and I think you mentioned something about this last weekend, but as much of a mindfuck May weather's skills are, his longevity is even more of a mindfuck to me. He's been doing this for 16+ years.* I think he's better right now than he was when he fought, say, Ricky Hatton*. What 36 year old has handspeed and total body reflexes like Mayweather? His longevity is stupid good.


:deal


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

burn1 said:


> Figures ole feather duster Paulie would push this. It kind of ups his own stock.
> 
> Doesn't influence me one bit though.
> 
> I'm the biggest Floyd fan of all, but I don't rate him TBE, just yet. Now when Ali's own daughter, herself an undefeated ATG, said Floyd is better(more complete) than her own father, that's a lot of ammunition.


What a stupid comment


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I do honestly believe that some figures in boxing, especially Golden Boy + Showtime peeps are going to say Mayweather is at least Top 3 because from a business perspective, it really is going to drag in more numbers.
> 
> In real life, he is actually top 10 H2H.
> At his weight classes, who are his opponents?
> ...


That's an amazing feat really.


----------



## 941jeremy (Jun 12, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> IF it is at 147 I think Paul takes it actually, stylistically it is a bad matchup because he brings pressure and punches from all angels and has the size to physically impose on Floyd. He also outside of the 1st fight with Quintana has shown that he does not stop throwing unless he is KO'd, so Floyd countering him wouldn't stop his activity. I think it would be a interesting style matchup, not to mention prime Williams had an iron jaw and superhuman stamina and activity.
> 
> Not saying he would win or it would be a lock but I think it would have been a hard fight for Floyd.


I always felt that Williams would give Floyd his roughest outing ever and probably even defeat him. Also even a past prime Williams still had an iron chin, he looked like shit vs Lara but still walked through flush power shots all night.


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

Dillyyo said:


> Speculation is always required when comparing great athletes from different eras. Fighters don't fight 15 rds anymore nor have same day weigh ins. But, it doesn't take a genius to see that Floyd would have no problem doing either and being second to none on any given day. Anyone who thinks Floyd wouldn't get down and dirty if he was ever put in that position during a fight is deluded. Problem is that his ATG defense stifles opponents offense and no one can out box Floyd. He's like the perfect virus; he'll silently kill you.


I think Hearns could outbox him. That's my opinion


----------



## LittleRed (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> It'll calm down, and it doesn't really mean anything. This and that ESPN thing has you all out of sorts man. :lol:
> 
> OT: 1999-2000 Pedro _was_ the best ever. I saw it. :yep
> 
> Yea @LittleRed Deal with it. :deal


:fire

That Britney Spears look alike! He's not even the best pitcher of his era!


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)




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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

1:59 - TBE loool


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## burn1 (Jun 4, 2013)

Floyd's probably smart enough to have trademarked "TBE", and incorperated it as a brand.

So, in that sense, Floyd is TBE!


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

#TBE


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## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

turbotime said:


> #TBE


Sheep!!!!!


----------



## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> It's almost blasphemous to say Mayweather would lose to a 135lb Duran. I don't care.


:rofl

Yet Jose Luis Castillo can take Mayweather to the absolute wire? A clearly inferior fighter to Duran?

I'd pick all of the Fabulous Four in their pomp against Mayweather. Your entire post is vastly underrating those fighters. Everything in this post is very vague mate; and baseless. Out of that list I'd pick Robinson, Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Napoles, and Chavez over Floyd. The rest are extremely close, interesting fights. LMR-Mayweather would be the absolute shit.

EDIT: By the way, I'm not trying to criticize or put down Castillo. He's brilliant, but him and Duran are two utterly different beasts. Roberto can go over 70 fights, cleaning house at lightweight and dominating everybody, losing once to an excellent opponent who he stopped twice in rematches, beat one of the H2H greats at a different weight division in his absolute prime, and win various fights against top opponents years above his best with a spare tire and it's "blasphemous" to say this walking textbook of offensive-and-defensive boxing would beat Floyd Mayweather?


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

O59 said:


> :rofl
> 
> Yet Jose Luis Castillo can take Mayweather to the absolute wire? A clearly inferior fighter to Duran?
> 
> ...


I always thought that was Eve in you avi, :lol: who is that?


----------



## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

tezel8764 said:


> I always thought that was Eve in you avi, :lol: who is that?


Stevie Nicks, member of Fleetwood Mac. :good


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## burn1 (Jun 4, 2013)

NM.


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

O59 said:


> :rofl
> 
> Yet Jose Luis Castillo can take Mayweather to the absolute wire? A clearly inferior fighter to Duran?
> 
> ...


The Castillo fight isn't a good gauge of mayweathers ability at 135, he supposedly had a torn rotator cuff midway through the fight, and complained about his shoulder in fight as early as the 4th round. In any case, in the rematch Mayweather removed all doubt my friend. A uninjured mayweather is a difficult fight for anyone in the history of boxing. You seem to judge Duran by his good performances, i.e. the rematches he won not the first fight which he got dominated and KD. Why can't you do the same with Mayweather and castillo, count the rematch where he handled and outboxed castillo and dont hold the fight where he was injured against him.

Duran could be outboxed, lets not forget this. Does this mean mayweather can do it? He has the skill for it, thats for sure... but Duran has the skill also to beat him. But he was not invincible.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

@Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) Skip Bayless gives a shout out to Danny Garcia :yep


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

O59 said:


> :rofl
> 
> Yet Jose Luis Castillo can take Mayweather to the absolute wire? A clearly inferior fighter to Duran?
> 
> ...


:deal


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

*Julio Cesar Chavez: "Mayweather is among the 5 best fighters ever"*

He just said that in the ESPN show "A LOS GOLPES".....


----------



## canucks9314 (May 23, 2013)

Sr or jr?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Nope.


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

canucks9314 said:


> Sr or jr?


Sr.


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Nope.


Can I post the video over here ? What are the rules for that ??


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Vic said:


> Can I post the video over here ? What are the rules for that ??


The rules are fairly liberal. Post away.


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> The rules are fairly liberal. Post away.







At 27:52


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

He says Sugar Ray Leonard was better, but praises Floyd for having a better defense, talks about how you can't see his jab, and how he's a complete fighter, with the only thing lacking being aggressiveness. Also says that he's glad to have his opponents weigh 15 pounds more because he benefits from the speed advantage.


----------



## ~Cellzki~ (Jun 3, 2013)

Jesus, every body is taking notice of #TBE :yep


----------



## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

I don't think Floyd benefit from speed advantage because his opponents are heavier. He benefits from speed advantage because he's just faster. That's it. A fighter can weigh 15lbs more than Floyd and be faster than him. Roy Jones Jr vs Mayweather Jr at 154-160 comes to mind, Meldrick Taylor, maybe SRL as well.

Ortiz, Canelo, Guerrero, etc. weren't slower because of their weight, Canelo is pretty fast pretty much against any one else including Trout. Floyd was just faster because he just is, his reflexes are better, his muscle memory works faster, weight has nothing to do with it.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

real recognize real


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> I don't think Floyd benefit from speed advantage because his opponents are heavier. He benefits from speed advantage because he's just faster. That's it. A fighter can weigh 15lbs more than Floyd and be faster than him. Roy Jones Jr vs Mayweather Jr at 154-160 comes to mind, Meldrick Taylor, maybe SRL as well.
> 
> Ortiz, Canelo, Guerrero, etc. weren't slower because of their weight, Canelo is pretty fast pretty much against any one else including Trout. Floyd was just faster because he just is, his reflexes are better, his muscle memory works faster, weight has nothing to do with it.


I don't think he's implying he's solely faster because of of the weight difference, but someone 15 pounds heavier is not likely to be faster, and he relies on his speed anyway.


----------



## pipe wrenched (Jun 4, 2013)

:deal


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

It's funny. A few weeks ago people were offended at the notion of Floyd being anywhere near the top 5 ever...saying he's somewhere around #30-35 . Now, however, because a bunch of pros/ATG's have come out saying he's top 5 or top 3, it's all the sudden an acceptable idea.

Seriously though, Floyd's one of the best to ever lace a pair up. Where he sits exactly, I don't know, but I think he would have made a competitive match with anyone in his best weight class, prime for prime (and he would've won most of the time)


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> real recognize real


you should go back to your old avi of Floyd and Cesar:yep


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> you should go back to your old avi of Floyd and Cesar:yep


:yep good idea. I'll switch it up soon


----------



## gyllespie (Jun 17, 2013)

He's the most difficult puzzle to solve. If that equates to being the best...maybe he is. I've been a fan of boxing for only 15 yrs and in that time frame he's the best I've seen. Roy Jones and Bhop are not far behind.


----------



## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I don't think he's implying he's solely faster because of of the weight difference, *but someone 15 pounds heavier is not likely to be faster*, and he relies on his speed anyway.


And I disagree with that. I don't think weight matters. Like I said, there are fighters who could outweigh Floyd by 15-25lbs, or who Floyd could outweigh by 15lbs(Though I have never seen that) and still be faster. Floyd is faster than his opponents regardless of weight. He was faster than Judah, and I forgot which common opponent of Pacquiao and Mayweather said it, that Mayweather is faster than Pacquiao. Judah and Pacquiao are both very light and very fast. Floyd could be faster than Ward, but not faster than the same sized Dirrell. You get me? Weight does not matter.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> And I disagree with that. I don't think weight matters. Like I said, there are fighters who could outweigh Floyd by 15-25lbs, or who Floyd could outweigh by 15lbs(Though I have never seen that) and still be faster. Floyd is faster than his opponents regardless of weight. He was faster than Judah, and I forgot which common opponent of Pacquiao and Mayweather said it, that Mayweather is faster than Pacquiao. Judah and Pacquiao are both very light and very fast. Floyd could be faster than Ward, but not faster than the same sized Dirrell. You get me? Weight does not matter.


Floyd wasn't faster than Judah imo. He beat him all with head


----------



## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> As I said, people enamoured with how good he looks rather than who he beat. There's 0 reason to have him above Duran or Leonard or Robinson or Ali.


Well say what you will but I watched SRL makebDuran quit mid fight, don't get me wrong I respect and appreciate Duran, but I find it odd that you say there's "0"" reason to pace him above Duran. i consider watching him get frustrated and quit against a far less defensively skilled fighter a reason. I mean I get the nostalgia of the older guys but Floyd is every bit the fighter any of those guys are and until someone shows me he can be beat, I just don't buy it.


----------



## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Floyd wasn't faster than Judah imo. He beat him all with head


Floyd was beating Judah to the punch. People see those 2 rounds where Judah was very explosive, that's not being faster, that's Floyd on Defense, trying to see what Judah has. After that, basically Mayweather was potshotting him to death and Judah couldn't even throw any punches because of fear of getting countered quickly.

Okay found it, it was Shane Mosley who said Mayweather is faster than Pacquiao.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=518572


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Like I said before

Roy Jones
Ray Robinson
Ray Leonard
Floyd Mayweather
Pernell Whitaker

#TBE


----------



## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

"It must be the way he throws his punches. He's not that fast; he's not faster than ever. He has decent speed, but it's not like, "Oh my God, this guy is so fast." *I felt Mayweather was faster than Pacquiao*. Pacquiao threw more rapid punches, but Mayweather was faster." - Shane Mosley

Credit to Fighthype.


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> Floyd was beating Judah to the punch. People see those 2 rounds where Judah was very explosive, that's not being faster, that's Floyd on Defense, trying to see what Judah has. After that, basically Mayweather was potshotting him to death and Judah couldn't even throw any punches because of fear of getting countered quickly.
> 
> Okay found it, it was Shane Mosley who said Mayweather is faster than Pacquiao.
> 
> http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=518572


Mosley was referring to the overall element of speed though. Handspeed-wise, Floyd may not be the fastest (but he's among them). However, his mental processing, body movement, foot movement, etc., the "whole package", Floyd's the fastest current fighter for sure. I think Mosley was referring to the "whole package"


----------



## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Mosley was referring to the overall element of speed though. Handspeed-wise, Floyd may not be the fastest (but he's among them). However, his mental processing, body movement, foot movement, etc., the "whole package", Floyd's the fastest current fighter for sure. I think Mosley was referring to the "whole package"


Mosley was referring to Pacquiao though. This interview was after he fought Pacquiao.


----------



## ^_^ (Sep 2, 2013)

Mosley said Floyd hit harder than Pacquiao. Marquez said that Pacquiao hits harder than Floyd.


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

^_^ said:


> Mosley said Floyd hit harder than Pacquiao. Marquez said that Pacquiao hits harder than Floyd.


Shove it up your ass, kid


----------



## ^_^ (Sep 2, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Shove it up your ass, kid


Not that I don't commend you for your unwavering, irrational hate, but I'm just quoting what fighters have said about Pac's power.

:conf


----------



## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

^_^ said:


> Mosley said Floyd hit harder than Pacquiao. Marquez said that Pacquiao hits harder than Floyd.


All of those fights were very different from each other. In this case, neither Mosley or Marquez could be lying, maybe they are both telling the truth. Mayweather outboxed Marquez he didn't use his size or power, while Pacquiao brawled and fought with Marquez, which lead to harder punches being thrown, while Floyd was content with outboxing him and not going all out.

Pacquiao landed 30% of his punches on Mosley, while Mayweather was a lot more accurate with 44%, throwing 300 less than Pacquiao did against Mosley, and landing not too far from as many as Pacquiao landed.


----------



## ^_^ (Sep 2, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> All of those fights were very different from each other. In this case, neither Mosley or Marquez could be lying, maybe they are both telling the truth. Mayweather outboxed Marquez he didn't use his size or power, while Pacquiao brawled and fought with Marquez, which lead to harder punches being thrown, while Floyd was content with outboxing him and not going all out.
> 
> Pacquiao landed 30% of his punches on Mosley, while Mayweather was a lot more accurate with 44%, throwing 300 less than Pacquiao did against Mosley, and landing not too far from as many as Pacquiao landed.


There was a late round where I think Floyd went for the KO, but quickly found out that JMM wasn't going anywhere, so I think JMM definitely felt Floyd's best shots. But yeah, you make some great points.


----------



## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

^_^ said:


> There was a late round where I think Floyd went for the KO, but quickly found out that JMM wasn't going anywhere, so I think JMM definitely felt Floyd's best shots. But yeah, you make some great points.


For some reason, Floyd decided to stay in front of Mosley and go "toe to toe" with a high guard, the more dangerous puncher and bigger man. But prior to that he fought Marquez on the outside and used his legs a lot. Almost as if to say "I'm bigger than Marquez, but i'm not going to fight like the big man, i'm going to show i'm smarter." Maybe that's what Floyd wanted to prove, he wanted to beat Marquez in a way that no one can say "Oh he beat him with his size and power". He used his legs and stayed on the outside, humiliating Marquez in a pure boxing match. Yet, a completely different fighter showed up for Mosley, he went basically as "toe to toe" as it gets for a Floyd fight, and wanted no part of using his legs.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Another high praise from another Legend. Prolly even bigger one that bhop for JCC is often ranked in a lot of people's top ten. TBE!


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> For some reason, Floyd decided to stay in front of Mosley and go "toe to toe" with a high guard, the more dangerous puncher and bigger man. But prior to that he fought Marquez on the outside and used his legs a lot. Almost as if to say "I'm bigger than Marquez, but i'm not going to fight like the big man, i'm going to show i'm smarter." Maybe that's what Floyd wanted to prove, he wanted to beat Marquez in a way that no one can say "Oh he beat him with his size and power". He used his legs and stayed on the outside, humiliating Marquez in a pure boxing match. Yet, a completely different fighter showed up for Mosley, he went basically as "toe to toe" as it gets for a Floyd fight, and wanted no part of using his legs.


Floyd definitely made the decision to sit down on his punches when he fought Mosley. The brit commentator mentioned how Floyd had mean intention behind his punches, which you don't always see. You could see it in Floyd's facial expression too. It was subcommunicating, "fuck you, n****".

He kept his shots lighter on JUAN as he was weary of JUAN's counters


----------



## ^_^ (Sep 2, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> Floyd definitely made the decision to sit down on his punches when he fought Mosley. The brit commentator mentioned how Floyd had mean intention behind his punches, which you don't always see. You could see it in Floyd's facial expression too. It was subcommunicating, "fuck you, n****".
> 
> He kept his shots lighter on JUAN as he was weary of JUAN's counters


Nancy?

:think


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> He says Sugar Ray Leonard was better, but praises Floyd for having a better defense, talks about how you can't see his jab, and how he's a complete fighter, with the only thing lacking being aggressiveness. Also says that he's glad to have his opponents weigh 15 pounds more because he benefits from the speed advantage.


I remember where I used to get jumped saying that Floyd have a better defense than SRL and Whitaker. 
As for Chavez saying that "you can't see his Jab", I like to add that is hard as hell to see his lead right as well.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Reppin501 said:


> Well say what you will but I watched SRL makebDuran quit mid fight, don't get me wrong I respect and appreciate Duran, but I find it odd that you say there's "0"" reason to pace him above Duran. i consider watching him get frustrated and quit against a far less defensively skilled fighter a reason. I mean I get the nostalgia of the older guys but Floyd is every bit the fighter any of those guys are and until someone shows me he can be beat, I just don't buy it.


Do you not know the infamy of Duran's terrible condition that night? I've read he had to lose 60 pounds from the moment the rematch was signed, after ballooning up to 230lbs. The way you talk about that event makes it sound like you're not familiar with what Duran did before or since to separate himself from most of history's greats.

Duran beat and competed against the greater fighters. That's it. It's simply too bad Floyd never had the chance to test himself against anyone near SRL's level. We can all think what we want about a fighter privately, but when it comes to handing out rankings for greatness, what a man has done is the only thing I can count. What he might have done or what others imagine he could have done mean 0 in a sport like boxing.

Could you say Floyd was more consistent? Yes. But greater? He never got the chance to prove it.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> And I disagree with that. I don't think weight matters. Like I said, there are fighters who could outweigh Floyd by 15-25lbs, or who Floyd could outweigh by 15lbs(Though I have never seen that) and still be faster. Floyd is faster than his opponents regardless of weight. He was faster than Judah, and I forgot which common opponent of Pacquiao and Mayweather said it, that Mayweather is faster than Pacquiao. Judah and Pacquiao are both very light and very fast. Floyd could be faster than Ward, but not faster than the same sized Dirrell. You get me? Weight does not matter.


I think it does. It's not a hard and fast rule, but in terms of body movement and feet, being leaner allows you to move quicker *generally.*


----------



## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Do you not know the infamy of Duran's terrible condition that night? I've read he had to lose 60 pounds from the moment the rematch was signed, after ballooning up to 230lbs. The way you talk about that event makes it sound like you're not familiar with what Duran did before or since to separate himself from most of history's greats.
> 
> Duran beat and competed against the greater fighters. That's it. It's simply too bad Floyd never had the chance to test himself against anyone near SRL's level. We can all think what we want about a fighter privately, but when it comes to handing out rankings for greatness, what a man has done is the only thing I can count. What he might have done or what others imagine he could have done mean 0 in a sport like boxing.
> 
> Could you say Floyd was more consistent? Yes. But greater? He never got the chance to prove it.


It's not that wholly disagree, I just think to say it so definitively, is a bit of a stretch. I don't take exception to the point per se, I just disagree with the idea that "0 case can be made".


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Reppin501 said:


> It's not that wholly disagree, I just think to say it so definitively, is a bit of a stretch. I don't take exception to the point per se, I just disagree with the idea that "0 case can be made".


I think 0 case can be made. Any good case, anyhow. There's not a single opponent on Mayweather's list that can challenge the man's resume. They're at least 15-20 spots apart on any respectable ATG list.


----------



## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

**** What's up with the Floyd love all the sudden?? ****

It seems like everyone and their mother is sucking Floyd off now days... People are claiming Floyd is top 10 all time, Top 5 all time, top 3 all time! Hell even some ppl are claiming he's TBE (The Best Ever).. Boxing fans are soo fickle.. He beat Canelo "Fucking" Alvarez. The guy that got rocked by Miguel Cotto's Brother! A guy that has been hyped to no end and is barely above average IMO..

Floyd is a great boxer.. But lets not forget he ducked alot of fighters when they were dangerous! Im not saying he wouldn't of beat them but we will never know. He didn't wanna mix it up with Manny when he was a force, when he was nasty. He didn't wanna fight Sergio when he looked unbeatable @ 154. He didn't wanna fight Margarito when he was making a splash @ 147 back in the day. Floyd chose to fight Canelo because he gained alot of wealth and he saw holes in his game that he could exploit. When Floyd wants to fight a guy it's because he knows he could beat him.. He didn't feel that way about a Prime Manny.. He showed fear and used to get mad when someone brought him up..

So to recap Floyd is a great pure boxer but he did duck some fights... He's not TBE or close to it. I would rank him top 25 all-time.


----------



## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

Slugger, you really are one sad bastard. Bore off.


----------



## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

Just my 2 cents.. He'd go 2-2 with the fab four! IMO.. He would be in that class. Thats not an insult by any means.. Those guys were fucking amazing!


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

All the sudden??! :ibutt


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

O59 said:


> :rofl
> 
> Yet Jose Luis Castillo can take Mayweather to the absolute wire? A clearly inferior fighter to Duran?
> 
> ...


When will people learn that every fight is different. I see so many people say that castillo did this to Floyd so therefore..... It doesn't work like that. How many people out performed Floyd in common opponents and when they fight floyd they get taken to school?
Not to mention that Floyd's shoulder is jacked up so how is that even a good example to use???
There's an aspect that people OFTEN overlook and is that fighters can rise to the occasion. For example: If Floyd knows there is a lot on the line, he would perform almost flawlessly. Same as when people are fighting Floyd, they have that HUNGER to pop that cherry and instant become a legend in the history books.

People need to understand that everyone who fights Floyd is going to fight their heart out. Everyone is going to be hungry. *Floyd doesn't have easy fights *and as much shit that he says about his opponents. It psyche him up as well.

Also if people want to say that Casillo is no Duran than what about Duran losing to lesser guys than Castillo???

Also a lot of people are really factoring a lot of popularity factor into who they think is great. like the case of Willie Pep. People exaggerate the hell out of his ability and then you watch him on film is like ok?... he abuse fighting on the backfoot and ducks constantly. Then you look at his record and is like a lot of fights yay.


----------



## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> All the sudden??! :ibutt


I've never seen so many people claiming he's TBE or top 3 all time! :lol: He had to beat the Great Canelo Alvarez to get this status.. It's mind blowing.


----------



## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

I rarely pay much attention to these kinds of quotes but that's a rather big gun firing.


----------



## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

Some people forget how Sugar Ray Robinson would fight Once a month..


----------



## uraharakisuke (May 16, 2013)

I would like to see JCC's top 5 if that's the case.

:bart


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Slugger3000 said:


> Some people forget how Sugar Ray Robinson would fight Once a month..


Against white boy stiffs.

Seriously though, nobody beat more white HOFers. It's all you find in his highlight reels. :lol:


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

BC he is TBE (skillwise) 
People want to say that he only have 45 fights. Then should know that he had a ton of amateur fights and a lot of the guys he competed with in golden gloves to the cuban amateurs are better than most of the classic legends padded tomatoe cans.
If Floyd were to fight a ton of guys with 10-5 records he would be 200-0.

Also plus at what Bhop said. That he is beating great fighters today that will rule the division if he wasn't there. It is not that they suck but is just that he is that damn good.

I know i have said this a lot but I saw this shit coming 7 years ago watching Floyd fight that i know he is TBE. Everyone tries to call me a f**king nuthugger and i DKSAB on a daily basis.
There are a lot of fighters that is great is some areas but Floyd is great at everything and he does it with Average power. You got guys like Hearns with size advantage, Hagler beating up smaller guys, and SRL who is popular and Duran's eye appealing ko power. It is easy to assume that "OH THEY WILL DESTROY ANYONE".


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

I still like Pernell over Floyd peak-for-peak, but he's doing something special maintaining an elite level for so long. Pea was doing coke.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Slugger3000 said:


> Some people forget how Sugar Ray Robinson would fight Once a month..


against sparring partner level guys. DOn't get me wrong. I think SRR is an absolute beast but it is what it is. Lack of amateur background back in the days, A lot of guys fight pro to make a quick dollar.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Slugger3000 said:


> It seems like everyone and their mother is sucking Floyd off now days... People are claiming Floyd is top 10 all time, Top 5 all time, top 3 all time! Hell even some ppl are claiming he's TBE (The Best Ever).. Boxing fans are soo fickle.. He beat Canelo "Fucking" Alvarez. The guy that got rocked by Miguel Cotto's Brother! A guy that has been hyped to no end and is barely above average IMO..


Didn't you say that Alvarez was going to beat him?


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I still like Pernell over Floyd peak-for-peak, but he's doing something special maintaining an elite level for so long. Pea was doing coke.


Floyd is just as good as Pernell.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

uraharakisuke said:


> I would like to see JCC's top 5 if that's the case.
> 
> :bart


I think it goes Robinson, Ali, Leonard, himself, Floyd :lol:


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Boxing fans are fickle. A bad loss makes you a bum, a big win makes you the GOAT.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> When will people learn that every fight is different. I see so many people say that castillo did this to Floyd so therefore..... It doesn't work like that. How many people out performed Floyd in common opponents and when they fight floyd they get taken to school?
> Not to mention that Floyd's shoulder is jacked up so how is that even a good example to use???
> There's an aspect that people OFTEN overlook and is that fighters can rise to the occasion. For example: If Floyd knows there is a lot on the line, he would perform almost flawlessly. Same as when people are fighting Floyd, they have that HUNGER to pop that cherry and instant become a legend in the history books.
> 
> ...


Who?


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Who?


Mid part to towards the end of his career. You can argue that Dejesus was on Castillo level.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Who?


Joppy

:hey


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

*Floyd Mayweather:"Floyd Mayweather is the best fighter ever"*

:deal

:lol:, these threads are getting out of the hand


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Look at Dejesus's record before he fought Duran. It didn't suggest that he had a top notch win before he fought Duran and he even lost to only guy that really stand out and he was able to beat Duran.


1972-10-30Doc McClendon*10*-*11*-*1*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWPTS1010
 1972-09-18Raymundo Dias*23*-*9*-*9*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWPTS1010
1972-07-28Chuck Wilburn*10*-*1*-*0*

Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USAWUD1010
1972-07-08Angel Robinson Garcia*121*-*59*-*20*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWPTS1010
1972-05-01Josue Marquez*25*-*6*-*1*

Felt Forum, New York, New York, USAWTKO1212
1972-04-10George Foster*13*-*5*-*1*

Felt Forum, New York, New York, USAWTKO810
1972-02-14Percy Hayles*31*-*24*-*6*

Hiram Bithorn Stadium, San Juan, Puerto RicoWUD1010
1971-12-10Antonio Gomez*36*-*3*-*0*

Caracas, VenezuelaLPTS1010
1971-10-30Milton Mendez*0*-*5*-*1*

Caracas, VenezuelaWKO510
1971-10-20Frank Leroy*2*-*6*-*0*

Caracas, VenezuelaWKO710
1971-10-06Leonel Hernandez*14*-*1*-*0*

Caracas, VenezuelaWPTS1010
1971-09-04Josue Marquez*24*-*5*-*0*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWPTS1212
1971-08-07Victor Ortiz*11*-*3*-*0*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWKO410
1971-07-24Josue Marquez*24*-*4*-*0*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWPTS1212
1971-06-05Armando Mendoza*12*-*1*-*0*

Nuevo Circo, Caracas, VenezuelaWTKO710
1971-05-05Gustavo Briceno*11*-*4*-*2*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWPTS1010
1971-04-12Johnny Harp*6*-*2*-*2*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWPTS1010
1970-10-19Jose Llano*5*-*0*-*1*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWKO710
1970-09-30Johnny Sandoval*3*-*4*-*1*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWPTS1010
1970-07-09Tommy Shaffer*16*-*25*-*4*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWKO810
1970-05-12Coverly Kid Daniels*1*-*4*-*1*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWKO610
1970-04-30Jose Jimenez*5*-*5*-*3*

Ponce, Puerto RicoWPTS1010
1970-04-06Ike Estrada

San Juan, Puerto RicoWKO510
1970-03-28Bobby Parnell*4*-*25*-*1*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWKO110
1970-02-28Braulio Rodriguez*5*-*1*-*0*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWTKO810
1970-02-14Chino Guerrero*1*-*0*-*0*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWTKO310
1970-01-24Martin Cuello*0*-*1*-*0*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWKO210
1969-11-22Ivelaw Eastman*8*-*7*-*0*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWKO56
1969-10-19Kid Matt Sheffield*2*-*5*-*1*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWTKO26
1969-09-27Ramon Montes*2*-*0*-*0*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWKO36
1969-08-23Johnny Sandoval*3*-*3*-*0*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWPTS66
1969-08-02Francisco Maldonado*0*-*1*-*0*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWKO36
1969-07-21Braulio Rodriguez*1*-*0*-*0*

San Juan, Puerto RicoWKO46
1969-02-10El Tarita

San Juan, Puerto RicoWKO26


[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
referee: 
Harold Valan
 8-2 | judge: 
John Maschio
 9-1 | judge: 
Joe Eppy
 7-3 

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
time: 1:11 | referee: 
Arthur Mercante
Puerto Rican lightweight title

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"][/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
time: 1:33 | referee: 
Mark Conn
Foster was knocked down once in the 2nd, 3rd, and 6th rounds.

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"]
[/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
Puerto Rican lightweight title

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"][/TD]

[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: c, colspan: 11"]
Puerto Rican lightweight title

[/TD]
[TD="class: right"][/TD]


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Again people exaggerate the classics way too much. By reading the forum you would think that Duran can do a Shin-Hadoken or something but yet he lost to Dejesus.

Again I AM NOT TRYING TO HATE on DURAN BUT I AM MERELY TRYING TO PROVE A POINT.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

"*Like I said before*, I didn't give this sport my whole life to say another fighter is better than me."


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Again people exaggerate the classics way too much. By reading the forum you would think that Duran can do a Shin-Hadoken or something but yet he lost to Dejesus.
> 
> Again I AM NOT TRYING TO HATE on DURAN BUT I AM MERELY TRYING TO PROVE A POINT.


Well, you made a point that you can look up a record online. You say DeJesus was on Castillo's level. Is that based on watching him fight, or a quick look up of his record? Do you believe forming an opinion based on looking up a record is the same as having seen the fights? :huh


----------



## uraharakisuke (May 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I think it goes Robinson, Ali, Leonard, himself, Floyd :lol:


:lol:atsch

The thing is, Floyd could have been considered top 5 ever if he actually pushed himself and took the fights someone like SRL did.

As it is now we have a very talented boxer who you really can't rate anywhere near top 5 due to his competition. Not even in a H2H sense considering the best indicator of skill is top level opponents; take The Prince for example, looked spectacular untill MAB. Not saying Floyd is not spectacular, he is, but he is beginning to be overrated.

I actually rate Manny on Floyd's level.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

I'm going to say this again. If one did not think this of Floyd prior to his bout w/ Canelo, then saying it now is a bit outlandish. Beating someone like Alvarev, who may have a very high ceiling eventually, should not be the fight to put one that much closer to the top. FMjr had already beaten much better fighters then Alvarez.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Mal said:


> Well, you made a point that you can look up a record online. You say DeJesus was on Castillo's level. Is that based on watching him fight, or a quick look up of his record? Do you believe forming an opinion based on looking up a record is the same as having seen the fights? :huh


I have seen him on youtube. Yes he looks slick and black. As if Casamayor wasn't? And records tells you a lot.
Boxrec, background checks and youtube is what i use when i bet on boxing and if it is a newcomer.... guess what... no footage and boxrec is all you got. Then you have to click on who their opponents fought and who the opponents' fought and etc.


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

It's "all of A sudden" not "all of the sudden"


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Believe or not. I try to keep it as real as possible when it comes to boxing. People just sees me as a nuthugger but i am making valid points. 
And just like what i said about Floyd 7 years ago. More people will start realizing it.


----------



## gyllespie (Jun 17, 2013)

Slugger3000 said:


> It seems like everyone and their mother is sucking Floyd off now days... People are claiming Floyd is top 10 all time, Top 5 all time, top 3 all time! Hell even some ppl are claiming he's TBE (The Best Ever).. Boxing fans are soo fickle.. He beat Canelo "Fucking" Alvarez. The guy that got rocked by Miguel Cotto's Brother! A guy that has been hyped to no end and is barely above average IMO..


If you compare Pac-Margarito to Floyd-Canelo you might be able to appreciate just how great of a win Floyd earned. Canelo was hands down the best fighter at 154 (and will reclaim the throne when Floyd moves down to 147). While Pac's win over Marg was impressive to a certain degree, Marg was nowhere near the top of the division. Top 25 sounds normal for Floyd but if someone wants to call him the GOAT it's not crazy when you consider: overall skillset, longevity, dominance, marketability, titles won, and champions he's beaten. He's been getting a lot of love lately. And why not? He's been hated so much for years. It's about time people really start to separate his skills from his personality. Appreciate the appreciation!


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

LOL!

"I don't care about what you do good, I do everything great!" - Floyd
My new favorite. So cocky but you can't tell him otherwise.


----------



## mrtony80 (Jun 8, 2013)

I said beforehand that the Alvarez fight would be a fight in which EVERYBODY would have their eyes on Mayweather. A lot of people were waiting to see if he'd finally lose, but it ended up being one of his flagship wins. I think people are in awe at almost unparalleled the level of consistency and focus he has maintained throughout his career. I don't think he'd be easily dispatched by any of the fab 4, or any other historical fighters in his weight range.


----------



## mrtony80 (Jun 8, 2013)

Oh, and I apologize for getting all serious in your joke thread, dyna.


----------



## mrtony80 (Jun 8, 2013)

The Alvarez fight was a moment of clarity for a lot of people.


----------



## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

:lol:


----------



## BogoaSissy (Sep 19, 2013)

One of the reasons I'm a Floyd fan is he's so great and people like Bogo give him no respect. Floyd is not in my Top 10, I made a quick list last year and had him at 19 but it's not a idiotic statement to consider Floyd the greatest.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

dynasore over Mayweather threads.


----------



## BogoaSissy (Sep 19, 2013)

Deal with it


----------



## BogoaSissy (Sep 19, 2013)

Mal said:


> Well, you made a point that you can look up a record online. You say DeJesus was on Castillo's level. Is that based on watching him fight, or a quick look up of his record? Do you believe forming an opinion based on looking up a record is the same as having seen the fights? :huh


You are such a cunt dick taker.


----------



## BogoaSissy (Sep 19, 2013)

If someone thinks Floyd and Manny are on the same level it's so laughable, Floyd would have humiliated Manny.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> I have seen him on youtube. Yes he looks slick and black. As if Casamayor wasn't? And records tells you a lot.
> Boxrec, background checks and youtube is what i use when i bet on boxing and if it is a newcomer.... guess what... no footage and boxrec is all you got. Then you have to click on who their opponents fought and who the opponents' fought and etc.


Sure, I totally understand that. With the lack of complete fights available, it's difficult to fully gauge a fighter of yesteryear. But the eyeball test trumps any online record lookup. Casamayor is Casamayor, not certain what you brought him out of the blue on.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

BogoaSissy said:


> You are such a cunt dick taker.


Hello one shot...


----------



## BogoaSissy (Sep 19, 2013)

Mal said:


> Hello one shot...


God, I wish I could punch you in the face


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

BogoaSissy said:


> God, I wish I could punch you in the face


Why would you punch God in the face? He didn't make you stupid, that's all on you friend.


----------



## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

TBE should never replace GOAT. And I am unanimous in that.


----------



## BogoaSissy (Sep 19, 2013)

Mal said:


> Why would you punch God in the face? He didn't make you stupid, that's all on you friend.


Die you racist piece of shit, time running on Gaylovkin, hopefully a black person punches you and rapes you.


----------



## Elliot (Jun 4, 2013)

Everything is exaggerated for the week after a fight, how many people have been unbeatable future [insert weight here] champions the week after they fought?


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

BogoaSissy said:


> Die you racist piece of shit, time running on Gaylovkin, hopefully a black person punches you and rapes you.


Does your mother know you post like this?


----------



## BogoaSissy (Sep 19, 2013)

Mal said:


> Does your mother know you post like this?


Does your mom know you treat Golovkin like an unbeatable ATG while hating Floyd cause he's black?


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Believe or not. I try to keep it as real as possible when it comes to boxing. People just sees me as a nuthugger but i am making valid points.
> And just like what i said about Floyd 7 years ago. More people will start realizing it.


And one day people will realise that you're right about Castillo being greater/better than Saddler based on your studies of boxrec. Wait no, everybody will still know you're an absolute retard who DKSAB.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

BogoaSissy said:


> Does your mom know you treat Golovkin like an unbeatable ATG while hating Floyd cause he's black?


What have I said about Ggg that makes you post like a little angry, girl? What have I said about Fmjr for that matter? Hating on fighters or whorshipping them is what immature newbies like you do. Sorry friend, I don't play that game you do.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Also a lot of people are really factoring a lot of popularity factor into who they think is great. like the case of Willie Pep. People exaggerate the hell out of his ability and then you watch him on film is like ok?... he abuse fighting on the backfoot and ducks constantly. Then you look at his record and is like a lot of fights yay.


Now this clown is saying Willie Pep is overrated. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so unbelievable.


----------



## BogoaSissy (Sep 19, 2013)

Mal said:


> What have I said about Ggg that makes you post like a little angry, girl? What have I said about Fmjr for that matter?


Face to face you would piss your panties so fuck you coward. I'm tired of fans like you acting like that *** Golovkin is the GOAT. You are going to cry when Stevens KOs your Nazi.


----------



## lurker (May 27, 2013)

What does it mean? The Best Ever... meaning skill-wise and on paper, he is the ultimate boxer. Sure, why not? If it's merely fantasy fights.

My frustration stems from the opportunities he's had in the era that passed up (intentionally or otherwise). Imagine if he fought those whom people said could beat him at those times, such as: Paul Williams, Mosley (after he beat margarito), Cotto (after he beat mosley) and then ended up outboxing Pacquiao (when he was still p4p king).
But no. We have to be content with H2H debates, fantasy fights and trust that his skills make him TBE. 

THere was no lack of great opponents in his career. Circumstances have robbed him of the greatness he deserves imo.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

BogoaSissy said:


> Face to face you would piss your panties so fuck you coward. I'm tired of fans like you acting like that *** Golovkin is the GOAT. You are going to cry when Stevens KOs your Nazi.


Again, what did I say about Ggg?


----------



## BogoaSissy (Sep 19, 2013)

Mal said:


> Again, what did I say about Ggg?


You said if someone thought that Lara would beat Golovkin they didn't know what they were watching, fuck you cunt your hero hasn't fought anyone to be unbeatable.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

BogoaSissy said:


> You said if someone thought that Lara would beat Golovkin they didn't know what they were watching, fuck you cunt your hero hasn't fought anyone to be unbeatable.


Thats not what I said little man. Feel free to quote it. Do you understand context? Are you capable of understanding what you read? Are you always acting like a 10yo?


----------



## Junito (Aug 10, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> "*Like I said before*, I didn't give this sport my whole life to say another fighter is better than me."


That's a great quote


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

mrtony80 said:


> I said beforehand that the Alvarez fight would be a fight in which EVERYBODY would have their eyes on Mayweather. A lot of people were waiting to see if he'd finally lose, but it ended up being one of his flagship wins. I think people are in awe at almost unparalleled the level of consistency and focus he has maintained throughout his career. I don't think he'd be easily dispatched by any of the fab 4, or any other historical fighters in his weight range.


I disagree on the consistency and focus part, he's looked ordinary and uninterested against some opponents (Augustus, Castillo, Baldomir, Guerrero, Cotto). He should've dominated and stepped on the pedal against those guys. Then you look at his toughest opponent in years (Canelo) and Floyd puts on imo the best performance of his career. It's very frustrating as a boxing fan to see the most talented guy in the sport fight for money instead of legacy for so many years, he could've been considered above the fab 4 historically speaking if he had always been eager to fight the best. He simply doesn't have that rivalry or big name opponent there, that Pac fight was a perfect opportunity to break Pac's run and put his name seriously in this sort of discussion.


----------



## BogoaSissy (Sep 19, 2013)

Mal said:


> Thats not what I said little man. Feel free to quote it. Do you understand context? Are you capable of understanding what you read? Are you always acting like a 10yo?


Ha little man, fuck you in your pussy. I said I didn't think Golovkin would be able to trap Lara and hurt him and your gay Nazi ass flipped out, slick black said the same shit and your dick eating self said he was racist.

Your mom should be pissed on for you.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

O59 said:


> :rofl
> 
> Yet Jose Luis Castillo can take Mayweather to the absolute wire? A clearly inferior fighter to Duran?
> 
> ...


Mayweather was the clear victor in the second fight. Castillo is a monster, I think it's Mayweather's best win. 
If you have Mayweather down as just an amazing defensive fighter i.e just behind or with Whitaker in terms of defensive skills, I'm more inclined to have Hearns win. 
Mayweather's forte is not even in his defensive abilities, it's in his boxing brain, his ability to adapt and adjust. I don't believe Mayweather will fight to put on a show as much as he would to win, which will mean that with anyone, he'd just be making the adjustments necessary to win on the night - we saw it with Cotto, with Mosley etc. Benitez is a great defensive fighter, but Mayweather is just a different animal than Benitez, he's certainly smarter, mentally he's stronger than anyone I've ever seen in the boxing ring. Benitez survived Hearns. Hearns has a brilliant ability to outbox, but Hearn's IQ is lower than Mayweather's, Mayweather could adjust to Hearns and leave him pretty clueless.

I'm really not underrating those fighters...if you imagined 'Whitaker' in these matchups, then you can see why I'd have Whitaker above some of them..but Mayweather although probably not a better defensive fighter where skills are concerned although that's debatable too, he's just a better fighter than Whitaker (Whitaker just has the better resume).

The problem is, falling into the trap of underrating Mayweather actually, based on the competition that he faced.

I believe in the more recent years, Mayweather has perfected this. I think he's actually in his prime NOW although he was in his sheer athletic prime at 130lbs.

I think either man could win.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> I disagree on the consistency and focus part, he's looked ordinary and uninterested against some opponents (Augustus, Castillo, Baldomir, Guerrero, Cotto). He should've dominated and stepped on the pedal against those guys. Then you look at his toughest opponent in years (Canelo) and Floyd puts on imo the best performance of his career. It's very frustrating as a boxing fan to see the most talented guy in the sport fight for money instead of legacy for so many years, he could've been considered above the fab 4 historically speaking if he had always been eager to fight the best. He simply doesn't have that rivalry or big name opponent there, that Pac fight was a perfect opportunity to break Pac's run and put his name seriously in this sort of discussion.


How do you think a fight with Paul Williams would've went?
I agree completely with that post and I think he would've beaten Pacquaio quite easily.Loved his performance on Saturday and been a big fan for years,but that wonderful performance was against a guy whose biggest win was against the guy who out pointed a shot Cotto,which puts a bit of perspective on it.
The greatest fighter of his generation and I'll be sad when he quits as he's one of the few guys I get excited about watching fight but once this calms down,you can't suddenly catapult Floyd into top 5 ATG because he beat a green Canelo.
And he would've most likely beat Paul for me.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Slugger3000 said:


> Just my 2 cents.. He'd go 2-2 with the fab four! IMO.. He would be in that class. Thats not an insult by any means.. Those guys were fucking amazing!


Well then you can understand that if you have him 2-2 with the fab four, some people will think he's Top 3 ever.

I think H2H he's Top 10. ATG rankings, 30's..just below someone like RJJ. I think he's surpassed Jofre and Arguello.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> dynasore over Mayweather threads.


:rofl Dying here


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Been here from the start :happy


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Like I said before
> 
> Roy Jones
> Ray Robinson
> ...


One thing that confuses me is that people believe Monzon beats Roy Jones and Hagler, yet Monzon is on no ones list.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

uraharakisuke said:


> :lol:atsch
> 
> The thing is, Floyd could have been considered top 5 ever if he actually pushed himself and took the fights someone like SRL did.
> 
> ...


...Prince did not look spectacular before MAB. He looked particularly poor in his prior fights to MAB. It was really hard to predict Hamed because of how non-textbook his style was. It's like we didn't really have a proper yardstick up until we realised that he does get hit a lot, a good technician will take advantage of his defense.

Mayweather just doesn't really have any limitations.


----------



## Thomas!! (Nov 9, 2012)

skill-wise he's one of TBE that's for sure.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :rofl Dying here


:yep

Respond to me foo :verysad I haven't even gone anywhere yet


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> All the sudden??! :ibutt





Slugger3000 said:


> I've never seen so many people claiming he's TBE or top 3 all time! :lol: He had to beat the Great Canelo Alvarez to get this status.. It's mind blowing.





turbotime said:


> Been here from the start :happy


What I'm saying. I can't speak for anyone else and their wagoning ways. Remember all the bullshit we had to endure and argue for and about Floyd before.everyone woke up? :lol: That was almost a daily battle.


----------



## mrtony80 (Jun 8, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> I disagree on the consistency and focus part, he's looked ordinary and uninterested against some opponents (Augustus, Castillo, Baldomir, Guerrero, Cotto). He should've dominated and stepped on the pedal against those guys. Then you look at his toughest opponent in years (Canelo) and Floyd puts on imo the best performance of his career. It's very frustrating as a boxing fan to see the most talented guy in the sport fight for money instead of legacy for so many years, he could've been considered above the fab 4 historically speaking if he had always been eager to fight the best. He simply doesn't have that rivalry or big name opponent there, that Pac fight was a perfect opportunity to break Pac's run and put his name seriously in this sort of discussion.


So...because he didn't stop guys you think he should have, you consider him inconsistent and unfocused? :huh


----------



## ATrillionaire (Jun 11, 2013)

Unfocused against Baldomir? While absolutely boring, it was a masterpiece performance. Dude looked like he was in the matrix.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

mrtony80 said:


> So...because he didn't stop guys you think he should have, you consider him inconsistent and unfocused? :huh


I obviously can't be sure,but I think he means Floyd was so far ahead of some opponents he went through the motions on occasion.
Could be wrong though.


----------



## Rigondeaux (Jun 3, 2013)

"Hard Work..."


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> And one day people will realise that you're right about Castillo being greater/better than Sandler based on your studies of boxrec. Wait no, everybody will still know you're an absolute retard who DKSAB.


:rofl


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

uraharakisuke said:


> :lol:atsch
> 
> The thing is, Floyd could have been considered top 5 ever if he actually pushed himself and took the fights someone like SRL did.
> 
> ...


Up until a little while ago it was a majority who considered Pac's resume just above Floyd's. Since then, he's beaten Guerrero and Canelo, and suddenly he's leapfrogging the fab 4.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

mrtony80 said:


> So...because he didn't stop guys you think he should have, you consider him inconsistent and unfocused? :huh


No he was so far ahead of opponents like Baldomir and Guerrero that he had no excuse not to be more aggressive. A safety first performance against Oscar or Canelo is completely acceptable because they are dangerous opponents. He let Augustus and Cotto do more to him than was acceptable for a fighter who is that far ahead skill wise. And many believe Castillo beat him in the first fight, while there's no doubt that Floyd beat Castillo in the second fight.
So he clearly hasn't been consistent, or focused/switched on for certain fights. If he has been consistent then he's clearly not as unbeatable as made out to be. I think he needs serious challenges to bring out his best, fighters that he knows can hurt him.


----------



## mrtony80 (Jun 8, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> I obviously can't be sure,but I think he means Floyd was so far ahead of some opponents he went through the motions on occasion.
> Could be wrong though.


Even if that is what he meant, how does it equate to being inconsistent and unfocused? Fighting careful isn't a weakness by any means. It might be boring at times, but it can't be considered a weakness. Remember, this is supposed to be the Sweet Science. Hit and not be hit.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> How do you think a fight with Paul Williams would've went?
> I agree completely with that post and I think he would've beaten Pacquaio quite easily.Loved his performance on Saturday and been a big fan for years,but that wonderful performance was against a guy whose biggest win was against the guy who out pointed a shot Cotto,which puts a bit of perspective on it.
> The greatest fighter of his generation and I'll be sad when he quits as he's one of the few guys I get excited about watching fight but once this calms down,you can't suddenly catapult Floyd into top 5 ATG because he beat a green Canelo.
> And he would've most likely beat Paul for me.


I think a rangy fighter who is busy is the sort of style that can give Floyd the most trouble. Williams is a fighter who didn't use his reach to his advantage, and never worked his way inside intelligently. Because of that I think Floyd would've won fairly comfortably.
I don't think Canelo can be considered green despite his biological age, he has some legit wins on his record. He didn't disgrace himself against Floyd and I think he'll be champ again for sure.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

mrtony80 said:


> Even if that is what he meant, how does it equate to being inconsistent and unfocused? Fighting careful isn't a weakness by any means. It might be boring at times, but it can't be considered a weakness. Remember, this is supposed to be the Sweet Science. Hit and not be hit.


When you are that far ahead of an opponent the not hit part doesn't take any effort, so you need to put your energy into the hitting part. If Floyd fights a raw novice and is safety first that's not an exhibit of the sweet science, thats just a poor/lazy performance. Floyd against Gatti is what should happen.


----------



## mrtony80 (Jun 8, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> No he was so far ahead of opponents like Baldomir and Guerrero that he had no excuse not to be more aggressive. A safety first performance against Oscar or Canelo is completely acceptable because they are dangerous opponents. He let Augustus and Cotto do more to him than was acceptable for a fighter who is that far ahead skill wise. And many believe Castillo beat him in the first fight, while there's no doubt that Floyd beat Castillo in the second fight.
> So he clearly hasn't been consistent, or focused/switched on for certain fights. If he has been consistent then he's clearly not as unbeatable as madeo out to be. I think he needs serious challenges to bring out his best, fighters that he knows can hurt him.


Why didn't Lomachenko stop guys he totally outclassed?


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

mrtony80 said:


> Why didn't Lomachenko stop guys he totally outclassed?


Because he has only fought in 3/5 round fights with big gloves and headgear? Are you seriously that stupid? Stoppages in WSB are less common than in the amateurs because of the level of competition, and Lomachenko hurt everyone he fought despite being the smaller guy.
Judge Vasyl on his power when he turns pro, and as an amateur he showed more power than the likes of Rigondeaux and GGG.

And can you please not bring up Vasyl, this is a thread about Floyd. Thanks.


----------



## mrtony80 (Jun 8, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Because he has only fought in 3/5 round fights with big gloves and headgear? Are you seriously that stupid? Stoppages in WSB are less common than in the amateurs because of the level of competition, and Lomachenko hurt everyone he fought despite being the smaller guy.
> Judge Vasyl on his power when he turns pro, and as an amateur he showed more power than the likes of Rigondeaux and GGG.
> 
> And can you please not bring up Vasyl, this is a thread about Floyd. Thanks.


I knew it wouldn't take you long to start insulting. I would ask about Whitaker, but fuck it...we're done here.


----------



## JohnAnthony (Jun 6, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> :lol::lol::rofl:roflatsch
> 
> I love pissing off casual mainstream fans by saying Floyd is better than Muhammad


you piss off more than casual fans by saying such statements.

Ali was fortunate enough to be in an era where he got to fight and beat 3 of the greatest heavyweights of all time (in there prime)

Its not even close who deserves to be considered better.


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

uraharakisuke said:


> I actually rate Manny on Floyd's level.


atsch


----------



## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Mayweather was the clear victor in the second fight. Castillo is a monster, I think it's Mayweather's best win.
> If you have Mayweather down as just an amazing defensive fighter i.e just behind or with Whitaker in terms of defensive skills, I'm more inclined to have Hearns win.
> Mayweather's forte is not even in his defensive abilities, it's in his boxing brain, his ability to adapt and adjust. I don't believe Mayweather will fight to put on a show as much as he would to win, which will mean that with anyone, he'd just be making the adjustments necessary to win on the night - we saw it with Cotto, with Mosley etc. Benitez is a great defensive fighter, but Mayweather is just a different animal than Benitez, he's certainly smarter, mentally he's stronger than anyone I've ever seen in the boxing ring. Benitez survived Hearns. Hearns has a brilliant ability to outbox, but Hearn's IQ is lower than Mayweather's, Mayweather could adjust to Hearns and leave him pretty clueless.
> 
> ...


How would Mayweather take away Hearns obvious height, reach, and jab advantage? How? Hearns was no Williams, this man knew how to use his height. His only flaws from what I could see was his over willingness to engage his opponent and thus give up his height and somewhat of a stamina issue, but that was with 15 rounds, with 12 it would be no problem. Hearns outboxed SRL, until the 14th rd I believe... now if this was 12 rds Hearns wouldve got the victory! Sure SRL had him hurt which lead to the stoppage, BUT Hearns was exhausted, and no doubt that helped SRL a lot, of course his exhaustion was caused by SRL's pressure.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Merged.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

mrtony80 said:


> I knew it wouldn't take you long to start insulting. I would ask about Whitaker, but fuck it...we're done here.


And I knew you couldn't talk about boxing without your vagina hurting and you crawling away like the little pussy you are :verysad
Why bring up Vasyl when we were talking about Floyd?
And Whitaker always put it on his opponents even though he couldn't hurt them. So yeah.. best to fuck off.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> How would Mayweather take away Hearns obvious height, reach, and jab advantage? How? Hearns was no Williams, this man knew how to use his height. His only flaws from what I could see was his over willingness to engage his opponent and thus give up his height and somewhat of a stamina issue, but that was with 15 rounds, with 12 it would be no problem. Hearns outboxed SRL, until the 14th rd I believe... now if this was 12 rds Hearns wouldve got the victory! Sure SRL had him hurt which lead to the stoppage, BUT Hearns was exhausted, and no doubt that helped SRL a lot, of course his exhaustion was caused by SRL's pressure.


If I knew the answer, then I would have the blueprint. :lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> One thing that confuses me is that people believe Monzon beats Roy Jones and Hagler, yet Monzon is on no ones list.


:think

Probably because there are fighters who looked great in more weight classes.


----------



## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

My only argument is that people always give their favorite fighters, or the old greats the benefit of the doubt -- but almost never do this for the recent greats. Like Duran, Duran quits vs SRL which is absolutely a bitch made move. This doesn't mean he is not as great as he is, just it was a bitch made move. Sure he won the first fight, but a lot of that was helped by SRL fighting Duran's fight, he was his own undoing. SRL, in my eyes, was a puncher boxer, and he figured he is the bigger man and will be able to bully Duran and beat him on the inside... afterall while SRL had excellent boxing skills, he was also a guy who loved to go for the KO, he had pop. That didn't work out and Duran beat him in a close but clear decision. So SRL says you know what I'm going to make this more easy for me, I'm going to use my superior boxing skills to outbox him. So he does it and clowns Duran while doing it, and Duran gives up. Of course after the fight every excuse in the world is given, from stomach cramps, to SRL running/taunting/fighting like a bitch and Duran didn't sign up for this, Duran was had to lose a lot of weight, Duran this and that... there were so many excuses you have no idea. But how does any of these excuses explain him quitting? The reason he quit is simple, he was being humiliated and probably didn't want to give SRL the satisfaction of a decision win at the time. 

I do not for one second believe that if SRL had engaged Duran in and intelligent fight like he did in the first fight, that he would've got the victory. I think Duran would've beat him, as that was Duran's dominate and he wouldve ate him up again on the inside. It's easy to make excuses when a guy gives you another look, and you can't figure it out. Everytime someone loses they always had some excuse, and if it wasnt a real injury in the fight, I always look at that as ego talking. It's interesting how all the fights Duran loss, in his own mind, is due to lack of dedication and training. So for those single fights he dominated, during preparations he was doing things so godly different than the fights where he won and dominated... it can't be that these guys had advantages, or fought in a way that he simply could not handle or adapt. Duran has been outboxed before and beat, surely by great fighters so there is no shame in that. But call it what it is, or consider the bad performance of everyone being the result of some excuse. I think Duran wanted a rematch right after that, but SRL turned it down. But then again SRL said in Legendary Nights Documentary that he asked for the rematch right away after the first fight because he knew Duran was partying lol. So one has to look at this, but lets be serious here, if SRL decided to fight Duran's fight I don't see him winning. For me its the same as the Toney loss to RJJ, if RJJ fought Toney's fight he gets KO'd. 

With that said, if we are thinking about a hypothetical fantasy fight between two ATG's we have to consider them WHEN THEY WERE AT THEIR BEST. We can't use Castillo 1 as an example, Mayweather was injured and removed all doubt with the rematch showing it was due to injury/being off -- can't use Dejesus 1 as an example, as Duran removes all doubt in the rematch.. sure some people will say Dejesus was doing coke and more interested in banging anything that walks by this time based on his victory, but no one knows that for sure and he didn't fight like it, KD Duran in the first round. So these fights when they werent at their best shouldnt even be in the discussion, why people mention them is really not a good argument. I understand that they present styles which help to form a argument and give reasonable doubt on how each would perform in a fantasy fight -- but they removed all doubt in their rematch, showing the first was not a inability or weakness, just an off showing due to lack of preparation or injury. I happen to think Duran and Mayweather would be close fight, Duran has beaten the better guys, so by principle I have to give him the edge. Hearns to me is the only guy I think mayweather had no chance.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> :think
> 
> Probably because there are fighters who looked great in more weight classes.


But Roy Jones is considered better H2H than Monzon..

*SRR, SRL, Monzon, RJJ, Sanchez, Spinks, Ali, Duran, Hearns, Mayweather, Charles - I can't narrow it down to 10, only 11 for now*
....From those who I have seen/recall at the moment, in no particular order.

Would like to hear what people's Top 10's are, H2H.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> But Roy Jones is considered better H2H than Monzon..
> 
> *SRR, SRL, Monzon, RJJ, Sanchez, Spinks, Ali, Charles, Hearns, Mayweather*
> ....From those who I have seen/recall at the moment.
> ...


No Duran? I'd probably switch Duran for Charles and Monzon for Whitaker and you'd in all likely lood have my top 10


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> No Duran? I'd probably switch Duran for Charles and Monzon for Whitaker and you'd in all likely lood have my top 10


Yeah, having Whitaker outside the top ten H2H doesn't sit right with me. He's in my top five.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

@Hands of Iron
@turbotime

I just find it impossible to take Monzon out. 
I don't see any reason to take Spinks out either. 
Actually I can take Charles out and throw either Whitaker or Duran in.
When we're talking H2H we're not necessarily talking most skilled. But I guess H2H we're talking prime for prime, in which case Duran pips it over Whitaker for me.

EDIT: SRR, SRL, Monzon, RJJ, Sanchez, Spinks, Ali, Duran, Hearns, Mayweather, Charles - I can't narrow it down to 10, only 11 for now

Without saying Mayweather who is a sure thing for my H2H Top 10, who the fuck can be taken out of this list? I have no idea right now..


----------



## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

So let me get this straight... TBE punches like a 12 year old female??


----------



## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

Floyd is not even the best of our generation.. Prime Manny, Murks that ass!


----------



## gander tasco (Jun 23, 2013)

Gotta love post-fight hyperbole.


----------



## Takamura (Sep 6, 2013)

lurker said:


> What does it mean? The Best Ever... meaning skill-wise and on paper, he is the ultimate boxer. Sure, why not? If it's merely fantasy fights.
> 
> My frustration stems from the opportunities he's had in the era that passed up (intentionally or otherwise). Imagine if he fought those whom people said could beat him at those times, such as: Paul Williams, Mosley (after he beat margarito), Cotto (after he beat mosley) and then ended up outboxing Pacquiao (when he was still p4p king).
> But no. We have to be content with H2H debates, fantasy fights and trust that his skills make him TBE.
> ...


I agree with everything you said but:

@ Bolded

He did fight Mosley after he beat Margo, granted not immediately but still


 2010-05-01147Floyd Mayweather Jr146*40*-*0*-*0*

MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada, USALUD1212
referee: Kenny Bayless | judge: Dave Moretti 109-119 | judge: Robert Hoyle 110-118 | judge: Adalaide Byrd 109-119  2009-01-24147Antonio Margarito145¾*37*-*5*-*0*

Staples Center, Los Angeles, California, USAWTKO912
time: 0:43 | referee: Raul Caiz Sr | judge: James Jen-Kin 80-71 | judge: Max DeLuca 79-72 | judge: Nelson Vazquez 78-73 
WBA Super World welterweight title (supervisor: George Martinez) 


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Slugger3000 said:


> So let me get this straight... TBE punches like a 12 year old female??


Sluggles you wouldn't even be able to handle lil Wayne Sam Watson or the Biebs let alone Money Man himself.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

BogoaSissy said:


> Ha little man, fuck you in your pussy. I said I didn't think Golovkin would be able to trap Lara and hurt him and your gay Nazi ass flipped out, slick black said the same shit and your dick eating self said he was racist.
> 
> Your mom should be pissed on for you.


Bring up the quotes. Yours and mine. I'd be happy to show you exactly where you misunderstand. Then maybe you wouldn't act like a spoiled, angry 10yo.

And feel free to post the quote where you think i called him racist. Thanks buddy.:cheers


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Mal said:


> Bring up the quotes. Yours and mine. I'd be happy to show you exactly where you misunderstand. Then maybe you wouldn't act like a spoiled, angry 10yo.
> 
> And feel free to post the quote where you think i called him racist. Thanks buddy.:cheers


Next time oneshot comes around, you don't even need to even go to the level of clarifying that you weren't racist. 
He has a weird eerie hate for Golovkin and also in general, European fighters.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Next time oneshot comes around, you don't even need to even go to the level of clarifying that you weren't racist.
> He has a weird eerie hate for Golovkin and also in general, European fighters.


I was trying to be a little diplomatic with him. Hoping that's there's a slight chance he can cut this crap out. Guess I was wrong. Point taken good sir! Just hope he gets IP banned from now on.


----------



## PrinceN (Jun 4, 2013)

*Johnny Nelson and Spencer Fearon Discuss Greatness of Mayweather*

:deal


----------



## jaymon112 (May 24, 2013)

Johnny always looking swag.


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

PrinceN said:


> :deal


I like his point about enjoying the moment, and how you're shitting on people's childhood memories by saying Floyd is better than chars like Ali, Tyson, and SRL.



jaymon112 said:


> Johnny always looking swag.


brits wear a suit much better than Americans, who wrongfully default to a black suit 90% of the time


----------



## PrinceN (Jun 4, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> I like his point about enjoying the moment, and how you're shitting on people's childhood memories by saying Floyd is better than chars like Ali, Tyson, and SRL.


yep people just need to enjoy this shit we might never see a fighter like him again


----------



## mrtony80 (Jun 8, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> And I knew you couldn't talk about boxing without your vagina hurting and you crawling away like the little pussy you are :verysad
> Why bring up Vasyl when we were talking about Floyd?
> And Whitaker always put it on his opponents even though he couldn't hurt them. So yeah.. best to fuck off.


Your problem is you turn into a sniveling little hoe throwing insults like a child because someone brings up a point you don't like. Everyone knows it, I'm not the only one to say so. Everyone knows Lomachenko is to you what Justin Bieber is to a 10 year old girl. I hope for his safety you are never within 50 feet of him.


----------



## heavyweightcp (Jun 11, 2013)

*Floyd is a great fighter but best ever no*

Floyd is one of the greatest fighters to ever live.

Floyd is a ATG but he is not the greatest fighter of all time

I do think floyd would beat roberto duran at 147

and he would beat Henry amstrong at 147

I dont think floyd could beat ray robinson or sugar ray leonard or tommy hearns Emile Griffith would also beat floyd.
I do think floyd would beat pernell at 147

one of my favorite fighters of all time would get taken apart by floyd is Julio Cesar chavez

kid Gavilan and floyd would be a great fight.

i think floyd beats carmen basillo down.

I also think floyd batters alexis arguello .

i see floyd beat barney ross by UD.

i see floyd beating shane mosley in his pime.

i also see floyd beating Tito Trinidad by UD.

I think Oscar de la hoya at 147 would give floyd problems but i see floyd winning.

Floyd is again of the greatest of all time but to say he is the best ever no.


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

mrtony80 said:


> Your problem is you turn into a sniveling little hoe throwing insults like a child because someone brings up a point you don't like. Everyone knows it, I'm not the only one to say so. Everyone knows Lomachenko is to you what Justin Bieber is to a 10 year old girl. I hope for his safety you are never within 50 feet of him.


out of all my years on esb and months here this is the first time mr tony has said something that makes me :lol::lol::rofl:roflatsch


----------



## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

Floyd is summoning his Ali. That's all. 


He is not the best fighter ever. Floyd Jr probably couln't beat prime Floyd Snr :lol: - maybe...


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

PrinceN said:


> :deal


Great interview. Lads know their shit.

From the GOAT actor =

"Simplicity and making it look easy is the mark of the greatest creators on Earth" - Dustin Hoffman (who stole it From Brando) @Hands of Iron


----------



## PJ. (Jun 6, 2013)

My effin goodness. This is insane. Floyd is great but the best ever? No. He has clearly avoided challenges and has himself said that if handpicking brings him more money, then keep handpicking them. Where does Canelo rank ATG at 154? There you go


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

@turbotime

I've never been much of a Hoffman fan, though there's a lot of stuff I haven't seen. :verysad

All these mentions today is giving me a semi though, keep them cumming.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

:jjj


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :jjj


:lol:

In about an hour or so.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> In about an hour or so.


Straw Dogs!? Was banned for a long time.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

I'm not conviced whatsoever that Griffith beats Floyd.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)




----------



## gander tasco (Jun 23, 2013)

Leonard, hearns, Duran, Oscar (prime), Shane (prime), Whitaker beat Floyd

possible // 50/50 - Pacquiao, Chavez, Winky wright, Vernon Forrest,


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

That's pretty good. The only guys you see beating Floyd are the ones with a significant size advantage over him.

I'd pick Hearns, Leonard, and Robinson to lose if they were matched against Roy at 168


----------



## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

PJ. said:


> My effin goodness. This is insane. Floyd is great but the best ever? No. He has clearly avoided challenges and has himself said that if handpicking brings him more money, then keep handpicking them. Where does Canelo rank ATG at 154? There you go


Floyd hasn't 'clearly' avoided anyone. Stop fooling yourself into believing that. Because that line of argument can easily be debunked with just a little bit of research. No. Floyd isn't the best ever and it's got nothing to do with who hasn't fought of his era.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Straw Dogs!? Was banned for a long time.


Havent seen it brah :verysad I didnt really care for Rain Man though


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Havent seen it brah :verysad I didnt really care for Rain Man though


Youve seen to much moustached DDL and not enough prime DH


----------



## heavyweightcp (Jun 11, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I'm not conviced whatsoever that Griffith beats Floyd.


emile griffith had a great jab punching power and had freak strength for a welterweight and was also very skilled i think he would beat floyd


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Youve seen to much moustached DDL and not enough prime DH


True. :lol:


----------



## Royal-T-Bag (Jun 5, 2013)

I agree he's not even top 10 for me and I'm one of his biggest fans but you're going about this wrong by matching him at his physical limit with naturals in those weight classes who are also ATG's.....match him with greats at Lightweight and Superfeatherweight

Floyd vs Arguello @130
Floyd vs JCC Sr @130
Floyd vs Duran @ 135
Floyd vs Carlos Ortiz @135
Floyud vs Benny Leonard @135
Floyd vs Azumah Nelson @130
Floyd vs Flash Elorde @130
Floyd vs Corrales @130 (oh wait we know that one) 
Floyd vs Genaro Hernandez @130 (oh wait we know that one too)
Floyd vs Bobby Chacon @130
Floyd vs Canzoneri @135
Floyd vs Joe Gans @135
Floyd vs Ike Williams @135


----------



## heavyweightcp (Jun 11, 2013)

Royal-T-Bag said:


> I agree he's not even top 10 for me and I'm one of his biggest fans but you're going about this wrong by matching him at his physical limit with naturals in those weight classes who are also ATG's.....match him with greats at Lightweight and Superfeatherweight
> 
> Floyd vs Arguello @130
> Floyd vs JCC Sr @130
> ...


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> The Best Ever P4P or WW?
> Quite frankly he is neither.
> B-Hop and RJJ both rank higher than him in the P4P spectrum and I don't think Floyd is a bettter WW than SRL, Sweetpea, Trinidad, nor Oscar, definitely isn't anywhere close to a ATG 154lber.


just saw this post and its spot on, hes a good fighter, probably top 30/35 but come on guys, top 10? really?


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

*I can't consider Sugar Ray Robinson an atg*

He was a very good, maybe even great fighter no doubt, but I can't consider him an atg because he cherry picked most of his opposition. There's no reason Charley Burley should be missing from his resume. He wanted to cherry pick Joey Maxim for the LHW title (and failed), but he was no where to be seen when Archie Moore captured the title. Ray Robinson spent most of his career fighting flat footed guys who were tailormade for him. And he definitely wanted nothing to do with Ezzard Charles.

Is he a HOF? Yeah of course he is. Atg? I'm not so sure about that


----------



## Capaedia (Jun 6, 2013)

Maxim was a flash in the pan hypejob and he still brutally stopped Robinson!


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

good LORD you got to be fucking kidding me. Look at his fucking resume and tell me that aint the resume of an ATG.

and posting a picture of him getting knocked out the ropes doesnt prove shit


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> good LORD you got to be fucking kidding me. Look at his fucking resume and tell me that aint the resume of an ATG.
> 
> and posting a picture of him getting knocked out the ropes doesnt prove shit


His resume is full of whiteboy stiffs, fall back.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Missed the entire Murderer's row. Unbelievable. Lamotta? Lost to him. Basilio? Lost to him. :-(

1-1 with Randy TURPIN :rofl


----------



## Boogle McDougal (Jun 8, 2012)

You trollin?


----------



## Rooster (Jul 14, 2013)

Preach. 19 losses? Nah, son.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> He was a very good, maybe even great fighter no doubt, but I can't consider him an atg because he cherry picked most of his opposition. There's no reason Charley Burley should be missing from his resume. He wanted to cherry pick Joey Maxim for the LHW title (and failed), but he was no where to be seen when Archie Moore captured the title. Ray Robinson spent most of his career fighting flat footed guys who were tailormade for him. And he definitely wanted nothing to do with Ezzard Charles.
> 
> Is he a HOF? Yeah of course he is. Atg? I'm not so sure about that


Robinson: "I'm too pretty to fight Burley"


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)




----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)




----------



## ^_^ (Sep 2, 2013)

OP had the audacity to call out the consensus GOAT on ducking when his god ducked a 5' 4" midget?

:rofl


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

and if hes not trolling, idk why this dudes making a big deal out of some losses. i mean he is an eagles fan :smile


----------



## Relentless (Nov 24, 2012)

floyd is still a bitch who cherry picked his way to the top. look at him now he didn't fight the guys we all (the none cock suckers) wanted him to fight and now the only ones left to fight him are B level or even c level fighters like khan and alexander.


----------



## sailracing (Jun 23, 2013)

OP wants to make the point that what is said about Floyd can be said about SRR


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> good LORD you got to be fucking kidding me. Look at his fucking resume and tell me that aint the resume of an ATG.
> 
> and posting a picture of him getting knocked out the ropes doesnt prove shit


yeah I looked at his resume, in fact I looked twice. I didn't see Burley, Charles or Moore there


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

sailracing said:


> OP wants to make the point that what is said about Floyd can be said about SRR


----------



## sailracing (Jun 23, 2013)

To me Floyd has a case of being the TBE but not the TGE
SRR is still the TGE, and arguably TBE


----------



## sailracing (Jun 23, 2013)

turbotime said:


>


Yeah I'm sorry TT if it seemed obvious to you


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Turbo was venting real vitriol. :yep


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah I looked at his resume, in fact I looked twice. I didn't see Burley, Charles or Moore there


fuck you and your trolling


----------



## MGS (Jun 14, 2013)

Robinson on All Access: "Name 10 hall of famers Floyd Mayweather has beat. Just 10"

:yep


----------



## sailracing (Jun 23, 2013)

Floyd = John Coltrane
SRR = Louis Armstrong
I don't know which one is TBE seriously


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> His resume is full of whiteboy stiffs, fall back.


Is there any other kind of stiffs?


----------



## Boogle McDougal (Jun 8, 2012)

sailracing said:


> Floyd = John Coltrane
> SRR = Louis Armstrong
> I don't know which one is TBE seriously


Why, because Floyd is a virtuoso with a heroin problem?
BTW who is TBA? LMK ASAP, THX


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

SRL >>>>>>


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Lol at 19 losses. "Everybody beatin' Ray Robinson, but ain't nobody beatin' me!" -FMJ


----------



## Mugshot (Jun 11, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> He was a very good, maybe even great fighter no doubt, but I can't consider him an atg because he cherry picked most of his opposition. There's no reason Charley Burley should be missing from his resume. He wanted to cherry pick Joey Maxim for the LHW title (and failed), but he was no where to be seen when Archie Moore captured the title. Ray Robinson spent most of his career fighting flat footed guys who were tailormade for him. And he definitely wanted nothing to do with Ezzard Charles.
> 
> Is he a HOF? Yeah of course he is. Atg? I'm not so sure about that


Fuck off.

I guess Mayweather is a little bitch too for not fighting the LHWs Adonis Stevenson and Sergey Kovalev.


----------



## sailracing (Jun 23, 2013)

Boggle said:


> Why, because Floyd is a virtuoso with a heroin problem?
> BTW who is TBA? LMK ASAP, THX


no sir, I meant Floyd is a just a boxing virtuoso, I am trying ignore what he does or says outside of the ring
TBA? did you mean TBE?


----------



## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

Bball taking a page from MVC back when he used to troll the Classic section on ESB. Well played, sir.


----------



## pipe wrenched (Jun 4, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


>


:rofl :lol:

What the fug is that noise about?? :lol:!!


----------



## Boogle McDougal (Jun 8, 2012)

sailracing said:


> no sir, I meant Floyd is a just a boxing virtuoso, I am trying ignore what he does or says outside of the ring
> TBA? did you mean TBE?


Nah, I meant TBA. Dude's on all sorts of cards. Never seen 'em fight.


----------



## pipe wrenched (Jun 4, 2013)

^_^ said:


> OP had the audacity to call out the consensus GOAT on ducking when his god ducked a 5' 4" midget?
> 
> :rofl


Why do ya'll hard core Pac fans call him midget and yellow and shit?? :huh:

Ya'll the only ones ever does it ...:yep


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mugshot said:


> Fuck off.
> 
> I guess Mayweather is a little bitch too for not fighting the LHWs Adonis Stevenson and Sergey Kovalev.


Floyd has never even sniffed at LHW. SRR cherry picked his only fight there and lost :deal


----------



## Mugshot (Jun 11, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Floyd has never even sniffed at LHW. SRR cherry picked his only fight there and lost :deal


And still that's more than Mayweather did, stupid fuck.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mugshot said:


> And still that's more than Mayweather did, stupid fuck.


oh really? Who did Sugar Ray Robinson beat to win his lightweight title?


----------



## Mugshot (Jun 11, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> oh really? Who did Sugar Ray Robinson beat to win his lightweight title?


He became the uncrowned champion when he beat Sammy Angott. Go on home, boy.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mugshot said:


> He became the uncrowned champion when he beat Sammy Angott. Go on home, boy.


oh just like he was the uncrowned champion when he "almost" beat Joey Maxim


----------



## Mugshot (Jun 11, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> oh just like he was the uncrowned champion when he "almost" beat Joey Maxim


I never said that. Maxim wasn't even the best LHW at the time. Angott was the very best LW in the world when Robinson beat him.

And how can you talk shit when Mayweather has never fought above 154lbs?


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> His resume is full of whiteboy stiffs, fall back.





turbotime said:


> Missed the entire Murderer's row. Unbelievable. Lamotta? Lost to him. Basilio? Lost to him. :-(
> 
> 1-1 with Randy TURPIN :rofl


see at least yall understand what's going on


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mugshot said:


> I never said that. *Maxim wasn't even the best LHW at the time*. Angott was the very best LW in the world when Robinson beat him.
> 
> And how can you talk shit when Mayweather has never fought above 154lbs?


great at least we can agree on that point that he cherry picked Joey Maxim


----------



## Mugshot (Jun 11, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> great at least we can agree on that point that he cherry picked Joey Maxim


Maxim is still a Hall of Fame LHW, mongrel. Again, more than Mayweather has ever done.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

:lol: This thread is hilarious.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Floyd = TBE


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Burley...Marshall, Williams? No thanks said Robinson.

Bring on old, small, Henry Armstrong though. :suicide


----------



## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)




----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

tezel8764 said:


>


:rofl :lol:


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mugshot said:


> Maxim is still a Hall of Fame LHW, mongrel. Again, more than Mayweather has ever done.


Oh I see. It's fine for SRR to duck a legit atg for a HOF who's tailormade for him. If he got stopped by Maxim in the 13th round, I'd hate to see what Archie Moore or Ezzard Charles would do to him



turbotime said:


> Burley...Marshall, Williams? No thanks said Robinson.
> 
> Bring on old, small, Henry Armstrong though. :suicide


:yep :deal


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

tezel8764 said:


>


:rofl


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Omg Tezel :rofl :rofl


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)




----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Turbo was venting real vitriol. :yep


:lol: no the timeline is completely off but there are ring walks for UFC so I was killing time


----------



## ^_^ (Sep 2, 2013)

Floyd Sr. said that SRR would have whooped on Floyd.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Randy Turpin.


----------



## pipe wrenched (Jun 4, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


>


:stonk

:lol: hahaha!


----------



## ~Cellzki~ (Jun 3, 2013)

tezel8764 said:


>


:rofl


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Overanalyzation at it's worst... atsch


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Why are people just giving sarcastic responses? 

It's as though bballchump has told your dad that he's a prick or something. Calm the fuck down and discuss. 


Well, regardless...SRR still fought in a tough era.

Jake LaMotta 6 times 
Gene Fullmer 3 times 
Carmen Basilio 2 times 
Randy Turpin 2 times 
Fritzie Zivic 2 times 
Sammy Angott 3 times 
Kid Gavilan 2 times 
Henry Armstrong 1 time 
Bobo Olson 4 times 
Joey Maxim 1 time 
Rocky Graziano 1 time 
Joey Giardello 1 time 

12 Hall of Famers a total of 28 fights

- 5-1 against LaMotta who was bigger than him. 
His loss to Joey Maxim - he was ahead on the cards and retired through heat exhaustion, even the referee had to be replaced. SRR was the busier of the two so was exhausted quicker in this instance.

Pretty much all of his losses came at a weight where he was not prime. It was after his 3 year retirement too, he wasn't at his best by any means and was actually just getting worse.
Come on, later on in his career he even lost to the likes of Denny Moyer. This wasn't a prime SRR lol


----------



## PrinceN (Jun 4, 2013)

there sure was a blueprint on how to beat SRR


----------



## canucks9314 (May 23, 2013)

tezel8764 said:


>


:lol:


----------



## pijo (Jun 24, 2012)

Floyd should of proved himself by fighting Castillo another 4 times.


----------



## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

In all seriousness there is a reason that Ike Williams when he was champ (ATG Lightweight, HOFer) wanted no part of a 18 year old Robinson. He was 123-1-1 at one stage. Only loss was against Lamotta who outweighed him by 14 pounds (at the weigh in that is) and Robinson avenged that loss 5 times and managed to stop him, perhaps the most durable Middleweight ever. GOAT for a reason. In his prime there was no blueprint to beat him, the only reason he lost 19 times was becuase for the most part he was way past his prime getting outworked by guys like Fullmer and Basilio over 15 rounds.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

This is either a troll thread

or this forum has reached its lowest ebb and turned to complete shit. 

No room for any middle ground on this.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

SRR certainly did know his limitations.
Langford, Greb and Fitzsimmons had less limitations in regards to being able to fight bigger men and those men did it in an extremely impressive way.

So that's 3 men who make case for being greater than SRR.
That still makes SRR nr4 as an ATG, if you give Armstrong the benefit of the doubt that's still 5.

After Archie Moore, nobody fought as much top 10 contenders as SRR, and SRR did it in a much more dominant fashion than Moore.
So at worst SRR is a top 5 ATG.


----------



## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> good LORD you got to be fucking kidding me. Look at his fucking resume and tell me that aint the resume of an ATG.
> 
> and posting a picture of him getting knocked out the ropes doesnt prove shit


This thread is so trollish that it isn't worthy of a reply.


----------



## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

Chatty said:


> This is either a troll thread
> 
> or this forum has reached its lowest ebb and turned to complete shit.
> 
> No room for any middle ground on this.


I think it's a bit of both, really. This thread totally degrades CHB.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Why are people just giving sarcastic responses?
> 
> It's as though bballchump has told your dad that he's a prick or something. Calm the fuck down and discuss.
> 
> ...


Lamotta was featherfisted and still managed to KO SRR if the fight was under modern rules (These days you can't be saved by the bell)
Who the fuck is Fullmer?
Basilio sounds like Castillo and C comes after the B and Floyd (an ex SFW) already beat Castillo with one arm and since C is after B Castillo>Basilio
SRR went 1-1 with Turpin and the loss negates the win
Zivic already lost to Burley in a more dominant fashion the first time and nobody rates Burley as nr1 ATG
Sammy Angott was like Ruiz or Wlad, jab jab hug, jab jab hug, jab jab hug except he was featherfisted. Nobody gives RJJ credit for beating Ruiz, nobody should give SRR credit
I seriously hope you're just joking by giving SRR credit for fighting a kid.
SRR couldn't even stop an ex featherweight who got KTFO by fucking http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=9532&cat=boxer
Archie Moor also beat Bobo
Maxim was featherfisted
Graziano was a bleeder and would be TKOd by Floyd so useless win
Joey Giardello you're seriously going to give SRR credit for fucking losing to a guy who lost every few fights?

5-1 against Lamotta with corrupt judges and when you could still get saved by the bell.
Lamotta also lost every few fights, he was beatable enough for even a guy like Pacman.

When SRR finally gave away his size advantages he started losing.

I take my words back, SRR is an atg when you make it a top 250 or something


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

dyna said:


> Lamotta was featherfisted and still managed to KO SRR if the fight was under modern rules (These days you can't be saved by the bell)
> Who the fuck is Fullmer?
> Basilio sounds like Castillo and C comes after the B and Floyd (an ex SFW) already beat Castillo with one arm and since C is after B Castillo>Basilio
> SRR went 1-1 with Turpin and the loss negates the win
> ...


i know your trolling but still this is the a shoe in for worst post of the year.


----------



## Illuminaughty (Aug 19, 2013)

I like bballchump's posts. I think this is out of character for him


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

*I can't consider Floyd Mayweather Jnr an atg*

He was a very good, maybe even great fighter no doubt, but I can't consider him an atg because he cherry picked most of his opposition. There's no reason Antonio Margarito should be missing from his resume. He wanted to cherry pick every title he won, but he was no where to be seen when Sergio Martinez called him out. Floyd Mayweather spent most of his career fighting shot or smaller guys who were tailormade for him. And he definitely wanted nothing to do with Manny Pacquaio. 

Is he a HOF? Yeah of course he is. Atg? I'm not so sure about that 










:conf


----------



## Boogle McDougal (Jun 8, 2012)

Yeah, where was Floyd when Archie Moore was champ? Wasn't even swimming around his father's balls. I call that a blatant duck, but in the interest of social harmony, I won't take him to task for it.

Edit: You edited your post - the point still stands.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Boggle said:


> Yeah, where was Floyd when Archie Moore was champ? Wasn't even swimming around his father's balls. I call that a blatant duck, but in the interest of social harmony, I won't take him to task for it.


:deal


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

I've never been overly impressed with the footage I've seen of Robinson; yes I know most of it is during the later stages of his career but the point still stands. Now I know people don't just go off the footage but off paper reports and eye witnesses etc. but I still dispute that he is the unbeatable killer posters on this forum (most of whom are sheep and go with the majority opinion) like to think he is. I mean of course he was a great fighter. Evidently he could box, but he was also ferocious on the inside and threw explosive combinations like perhaps not other!

How good was his opposition? Well obviously pretty good having fought and beat guys like Turpin, Gavilan and Lamotta. However his resume isn't flawless and I'd favour guys like Leonard, Hearns and McCallum over the majority of his opposition. I'd favour Hearns over Robinson outright. For me it's unfathomable the way people vehemently adhere to the idea Robinson is the goat and unbeatable h2h.

Taking everything into consideration and by that I mean; resume, video footage, physical attributes, flaws in potential rivals, eras that type of thing, I'd have to say Robinson is one of the best fighters of all time. Do I think he's the greatest of all time? Probably not, there are too many variables for me to call one man the GOAT.


----------



## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

What a fucking Left Hook.


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

If we're going off of nothing but footage, then Robinson can't carry Jones Junior's boots.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

What's with these threads? Floyd is up there p4p all time, he just hasn't had the best record. If he keeps fighting the likes of Canelo and winning well then that issue will be rectified. 
Some people seem to think Floyd is flawless and immune to valid criticism regarding his choice of opponents over the years.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Chatty said:


> i know your trolling but still this is the a shoe in for worst post of the year.


You know it's true, deep in your heart.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

I dare any one of ya to tell me Tex Cobb isn't an ATG.

I fuckin dare ya!


----------



## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

dyna said:


> You know it's true, deep in your heart.


You dyna, are the King of Trolls.


----------



## Johnstown (Jun 4, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> What's with these threads? Floyd is up there p4p all time, he just hasn't had the best record. If he keeps fighting the likes of Canelo and winning well then that issue will be rectified.
> Some people seem to think Floyd is flawless and immune to valid criticism regarding his choice of opponents over the years.


read the other thread that was written 11 hours before this about Robinson.....try to figure out what OP is doing here...


----------



## Dustaine (Jul 25, 2012)

Chatty said:


> He was a very good, maybe even great fighter no doubt, but I can't consider him an atg because he cherry picked most of his opposition. There's no reason Antonio Margarito should be missing from his resume. He wanted to cherry pick every title he won, but he was no where to be seen when Sergio Martinez called him out. Floyd Mayweather spent most of his career fighting shot or smaller guys who were tailormade for him. And he definitely wanted nothing to do with Manny Pacquaio.
> 
> Is he a HOF? Yeah of course he is. Atg? I'm not so sure about that
> 
> ...


Your opinion is not relevant.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

1 more thing, any other all time great would have jumped on the pacquiao fight in a heartbeat.. add that fight and sprinkle on some other opportunities like margarito, williams and prime cotto and you have a great resume


----------



## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

BUMPY said:


> I've never been overly impressed with the footage I've seen of Robinson; yes I know most of it is during the later stages of his career but the point still stands. Now I know people don't just go off the footage but off paper reports and eye witnesses etc. but I still dispute that he is the unbeatable killer posters on this forum (most of whom are sheep and go with the majority opinion) like to think he is. I mean of course he was a great fighter. Evidently he could box, but he was also ferocious on the inside and threw explosive combinations like perhaps not other!
> 
> How good was his opposition? Well obviously pretty good having fought and beat guys like Turpin, Gavilan and Lamotta. However his resume isn't flawless and I'd favour guys like Leonard, Hearns and McCallum over the majority of his opposition. I'd favour Hearns over Robinson outright. For me it's unfathomable the way people vehemently adhere to the idea Robinson is the goat and unbeatable h2h.
> 
> Taking everything into consideration and by that I mean; resume, video footage, physical attributes, flaws in potential rivals, eras that type of thing, I'd have to say Robinson is one of the best fighters of all time. Do I think he's the greatest of all time? Probably not, there are too many variables for me to call one man the GOAT.


The guy beat 10 HOF fighters, just 3 shy of the record 13 and fought 200 times. When you fight that often and fight dozens of HOF quality fighters, Champs and Ex-Champs you are bound to run into the wrong fighter at the wrong time. I seriously doubt Leonard, Hearns or McCallum would've faired so well over such a long career. When Leonard was getting gift dec over Hagler and Hearns Robinson was knocking out Bobo, ultra durable Fullmer and beating Basilio. 3 Champions and HOFers.

Heanrs probably would've been KO'd by Robinson too durable, too aggressive and hard hitting.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Johnstown said:


> read the other thread that was written 11 hours before this about Robinson.....try to figure out what OP is doing here...


Try to figure out what the OP is doing in the other thread... Also a Floyd fan making a point about Floyd not being considered as great as he should be.

Edit: I've just seen that Chatty doesn't understand the point of Bball's thread, I thought it was pretty obvious.


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

I still do consider him great, but I do agree that most of his opposition was tailored for him


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

I can't believe that people don't understand the point of this thread.
Let me spell it out for you dummies, OP is saying that every fighter's record can be picked apart, and is saying things people say about Floyd. His point being that Floyd gets unfairly criticised in an ATG sense.
Which I don't agree with. But people are obviously stupider than I thought around here.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> I dare any one of ya
> I fuckin dare ya!


:cheersRights


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Nah Y'all I'm just trolling. I'm packing out of here for a while once breaking Bad is done (its the only thread I really bother with currently) so thought I'd have a bit fun before I disappear.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

paloalto00 said:


> I still do consider him great, but I do agree that most of his opposition was tailored for him


Ofcourse his opposition is tailored for him when he's clearly the nr1 of his generation.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> I dare any one of ya to tell me Tex Cobb isn't an ATG.
> 
> I fuckin dare ya!


ATG Chin, which may actually be better than being an ATG. Unless you're an ATG with an ATG Chin, that's the ultimate man!


----------



## Arran (Jun 21, 2012)

clearly number 2 behind calzaghe...but still great. him ducking pac always leaves a question mark...even though i think he would have won easily on points.


----------



## ^_^ (Sep 2, 2013)

Purposeful Troll Thread Accidentally Reveals Truth About Floyd-Margarito Duckage!

:shifty

:amir


----------



## Rooster (Jul 14, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> I can't believe that people don't understand the point of this thread.
> Let me spell it out for you dummies, OP is saying that every fighter's record can be picked apart, and is saying things people say about Floyd. His point being that Floyd gets unfairly criticised in an ATG sense.
> Which I don't agree with. But people are obviously stupider than I thought around here.


Quoted for everyone to see. FFS, how can anyone not see the sarcasm/joke?


----------



## Brownies (Jun 7, 2013)

I agree with Dealt_with... every resume can be picked apart and it's stupid to say things like : Oh ! Dempsey was trash... He didn't even fight Wills ! While it is true that he should've fought Wills... He's not trash because of that just like Mayweather is still an ATG even if he didn't fought Pacquiao.

BUT : I can't keep myself from typing a list of Joey Maxim's top 5 win... sorry but the guy gets treated like trash sometimes !

Sugar Ray robinson
Floyd Patterson
Jersey Joe Walcott
Jimmy Bivins
Freddie Mills


----------



## techks (Jun 4, 2013)

Get Op's message.

Duran lost to Laing

Hagler lost to Watts

Ali got dropped by Cooper

Blahblahblah

Everyone has their criticisms and bias for/towards fighters it just comes with what they do. All this "Its unfair the criticism Floyd gets for his opposition!" kinda makes sense since he never fought a prime ATG or solid A fighter. Whether that is Floyd's fault or not its a stain on his "unblemished" record. U think SRL didn't get people saying, "Well, he aint Ali...."? Just what star athletes go through and all Floyd can do is beat the best he can. No reason he shouldn't have at least Martinez and/or GGG as one of his last fights if SRL can face Hagler. See, comparisons happen though I stick with what I said.


----------



## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

Margarito-Mayweather would've been fascinating. I really do wish Floyd had fought Williams/Margarito/Cotto/Pac when they were hot. Unfortunately there's no one left for him. It's pretty clear that the only way he loses now is purely down to age or getting caught (both still unlikely).


----------



## techks (Jun 4, 2013)

Funny, but TBH if he jumped on the opportunity to beat Pacquiao like I think he would've then eventually beaten or at least fought Martinez and/or GGG no question he's ATG in my mind. Just my opinion if one considers him an ATG fine but no question is he HOF material guy had a great career just lacks another signature win or two. He looked great against Canelo and happy that fight happened but that aint gonna solidify an ATG spot for Floyd IMHO. Great fight BTW.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Flash Jab said:


> Margarito-Mayweather would've been fascinating. I really do wish Floyd had fought Williams/Margarito/Cotto/Pac when they were hot. Unfortunately there's no one left for him. It's pretty clear that the only way he loses now is purely down to age or getting caught (both still unlikely).


Or if he moved up to middleweight, like the other greats did


----------



## Abraham (May 9, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> What's with these threads? Floyd is up there p4p all time, he just hasn't had the best record. If he keeps fighting the likes of Canelo and winning well then that issue will be rectified.
> Some people seem to think Floyd is flawless and immune to valid criticism regarding his choice of opponents over the years.


And people who criticize him over who he _should have_ fought can only come up with guys he would have beaten anyway. Some people act like he ducked a plethora of dangerous fighters.


----------



## Arran (Jun 21, 2012)

yeah but pac wasnt just another fighter 3-4 years ago


----------



## Rexrapper 1 (Jun 4, 2013)

techks said:


> Funny, but TBH if he jumped on the opportunity to beat Pacquiao like I think he would've then eventually beaten or at least fought Martinez and/or GGG no question he's ATG in my mind. Just my opinion if one considers him an ATG fine but no question is he HOF material guy had a great career just lacks another signature win or two. He looked great against Canelo and happy that fight happened but that aint gonna solidify an ATG spot for Floyd IMHO. Great fight BTW.


Damn so Floyd has to jump to middleweight just to be an ATG? He has already fought in 5 divisions and he isn't a big welterweight. Also what if GGG turns out to be a hype job? Would Floyd get any credit for the win?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Merged to avoid a Pacweather wilderness from emerging.


----------



## ^_^ (Sep 2, 2013)

Some fucking Flomo at Champs Sports was talking about Mayweather-Canelo and legit said out loud that Floyd invented the phrase "Hard work, dedication!" and said that Floyd could put a patent on it. I mean, no one has ever strung together the words hard work and dedication.

:rofl


----------



## rossco (Jun 9, 2013)

There is no fucking way Floyd is the best ever, i dont care who say's it. His resume doesn't cut it. He's a great talent fighting in an average era.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> If we're going off of nothing but footage, then Robinson can't carry Jones Junior's boots.


Jones would've slapped Basilio and Lamotta all over in the same night. :deal


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Jones would've slapped Basilio and Lamotta all over in the same night. :deal


Lamotta wouldn't have even landed a punch


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Randy Turpin.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

why the fuck did you merge my thread in here? My thread had nothing to do with Mayweather


----------



## burn1 (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> why the fuck did you merge my thread in here? My thread had nothing to do with Mayweather


:lol:
Where is your op(# or link)?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Randy Turpin.


:lol: atsch


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

burn1 said:


> :lol:
> Where is your op(# or link)?


my magnificent thread and one about *SRR*(not mayweather), started here
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...-Floyd-is-TBE-quot/page20&p=529313#post529313


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Turpin was actually a pretty tragic case and a formidable MW in his prime. @turbotime just bludgeoning the dude though.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Abraham said:


> And people who criticize him over who he _should have_ fought can only come up with guys he would have beaten anyway. Some people act like he ducked a plethora of dangerous fighters.


With boxing we're not allowed to assume anything though, otherwise Lomachenko is the GOAT :yep
I think Floyd would've beaten Pac and Marg but he doesn't automatically get those names on his record.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Randy Turpin.


His IBHOF photo:


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> With boxing we're not allowed to assume anything though, otherwise Lomachenko is the GOAT :yep
> I think Floyd would've beaten Pac and Marg but he doesn't automatically get those names on his record.


You're not going to tell us right now you've been lieing to us the whole time about Loma?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> With boxing we're not allowed to assume anything though, otherwise Lomachenko is the GOAT :yep
> I think Floyd would've beaten Pac and Marg but he doesn't automatically get those names on his record.


How many spots up the ATG list does a win over Margs put him?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> His IBHOF photo:


Best looking eurobum Ive seen probably


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Best looking eurobum Ive seen probably


Awww :verysad

Poor Randy, why did you attempt to murder your own daughter?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Awww :verysad
> 
> Poor Randy, why did you attempt to murder your own daughter?


Nah just keeping with the thread :lol: That's fucked up. I never heard that before.....when


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Nah just keeping with the thread :lol: That's fucked up. I never heard that before.....when


The same day he offed himself, I assume. Randy didn't see beyond 1966.


----------



## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Awww :verysad
> 
> Poor Randy, why did you attempt to murder your own daughter?


damn this guy is fed up. He tried to kill his 4 yr old daughter, shot her twice it seems, then offed himself. Must've had some brain damage.

But on the upside Randy was half black, it explains why he was able to beat Robinson the first time. Having half afro ancestry, gave him genetic insights on SRR's skillsets, like that stuff Bernard Hopkins was referring too... this ultimately lead to SRR's defeat, as it had been a LONG time since he fought another black even partial black out of fear that they would know.


----------



## gander tasco (Jun 23, 2013)

> Originally Posted by *Abraham*
> 
> And people who criticize him over who he _should have_ fought can only come up with guys he would have beaten anyway. Some people act like he ducked a plethora of dangerous fighters.


Pac, cotto (prime), margo (prime) , mosley (a few years younger) were all dangerous fights for Floyd. Those fights were all there for him to get made and he basically brushed them aside.


----------



## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

gander tasco said:


> Pac, cotto (prime), margo (prime) , mosley (a few years younger) were all dangerous fights for Floyd. Those fights were all there for him to get made and he basically brushed them aside.


Mosley was the one who didn't take Mayweather's offer to fight him on 2 occasions... the first in 99 and the second in 2005. All the rest were top rank fighters, and there was bad blood between Arum and Mayweather, it's all smoke and mirrors, honestly from Arum. Arum didn't want Mayweather to fight Cotto, when Cotto was a champ at 140 and Mayweather had defeated Gatti... Cotto didnt want to fight Mayweather then either... cotto even said, on the build up to his fight with Mayweather he really didn't even try to peruse a fight with Mayweather, until he left Top Rank.

That leaves us with Pac and a Margo fight. No way these fights were going to happen, due to the issues between not only Mayweather and Bob Arum, who still owed mayweather hundreds of thousands of dollars, but the issues between both his company and GBP -- we still see the issues which stopped fights between top fighters recently. This is a business, and there is a bunch of issues. Mayweather wanted the fight in 09, around that time, he just asked for drug testing, Pac declined... the specifics of what Mayweather asked for, which was for him too, while mayweather accepted all of Pacs demands. However, if you ask me, it was a hoe ass move for Mayweather to ask for Olympic style drug testing anyways. It was a bitch-made move, even if there is cheaters in the sport in overwhelming number. He wanted the fight, but asking for that, showed he was scared of pac to some degree, but he still believed, that he could defeat him. However, even in being a bitch move, it has changed the sport, and blood testing has caught a lot of cheats since then... so it had an overall good effect even if he was bitchness.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> Arum didn't want Mayweather to fight Cotto, when Cotto was a champ at 140 and Mayweather had defeated Gatti... Cotto didnt want to fight Mayweather then either... cotto even said, on the build up to his fight with Mayweather he really didn't even try to peruse a fight with Mayweather, until he left Top Rank.


I wouldn't doubt that Cotto or other fighters weren't really genuine about fighting Mayweather, but Mayweather wasn't blameless in some of these situations either. I remember Mayweather was being interviewed during one of HBO's PPV events (not one in which he had fought) and he said he wasn't interested in fighting Cotto because he was "too green." Meanwhile he fought some nobody named Bruseles around that same time, and then went on to fight Gatti who he had previously dismissed as a "paper champ."


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Snakefist said:


> damn this guy is fed up. He tried to kill his 4 yr old daughter, shot her twice it seems, then offed himself. Must've had some brain damage.
> 
> But on the upside Randy was half black, it explains why he was able to beat Robinson the first time. Having half afro ancestry, gave him genetic insights on SRR's skillsets, like that stuff Bernard Hopkins was referring too... this ultimately lead to SRR's defeat, as it had been a LONG time since he fought another black even partial black out of fear that they would know.


:lol: Exactly.

Robinson actually fought Tiger Jones too in his comeback from retirement after the Maxim fight and LOST, before regaining the Mw title.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Yo in all seriousness Snake, I think the versions of Benitez and Hearns that SRL beat were far and away better H2H fighters than anyone on Robbie's record aside from Kid Gavilan, who's probably an equal. Of course, his is also much, much deeper.


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## Johnstown (Jun 4, 2013)

burn1 said:


> Figures ole feather duster Paulie would push this. It kind of ups his own stock.
> 
> Doesn't influence me one bit though.
> 
> I'm the biggest Floyd fan of all, but I don't rate him TBE, just yet. Now when Ali's own daughter, herself an undefeated ATG, said Floyd is better(more complete) than her own father, that's a lot of ammunition.


Lalia Ali an all time great :lol:


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

Sittin Sonny said:


> I wouldn't doubt that Cotto or other fighters weren't really genuine about fighting Mayweather, but Mayweather wasn't blameless in some of these situations either. I remember Mayweather was being interviewed during one of HBO's PPV events (not one in which he had fought) and he said he wasn't interested in fighting Cotto because he was "too green." Meanwhile he fought some nobody named Bruseles around that same time, and then went on to fight Gatti who he had previously dismissed as a "paper champ."


I never heard him call Cotto "too green", so I can't completely confirm or deny that. But what I do know, from what I could see, during that time, no one wanted to fight mayweather at 140 BUT Gatti. Hatton who was lineal champ after beating Kosta... they were all there in attendance, and neither one of them wanted the fight at that time. Cotto, was a little green at the time he beat Gatti... he came into his prime around the time he fought Abdullaev, and mayweather was still in that division... so... yeah. Cotto wasnt scared, but he had no intentions on fighting mayweather, and Arum was NOT going to feed a great prospect who appeals to the Rican demographics to Mayweather before he could make some money from. Mayweather was with top rank at the time.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

@Snakefist , Gatti didn't want to fight Floyd either. He was forced to since Floyd was his mandatory :yep


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## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Yo in all seriousness Snake, I think the versions of Benitez and Hearns that SRL beat were far and away better H2H fighters than anyone on Robbie's record aside from Kid Gavilan, who's probably an equal. Of course, his is also much, much deeper.


I would agree, not counting Armstrong as he had one foot in the grave when SRR fought him. Although Lamotta maybe getting underrated here.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> How many spots up the ATG list does a win over Margs put him?


An ATG list is completely subjective. But obviously beating Marg would've been far better than having Baldomir there, so he would be higher up. What Floyd really needed is the win over Pac, a victory over prime Cotto would've been meaningful as well. Especially considering he struggled with the elderly version of Cotto at times.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

nobody is gonna remember Margarito except for being a cheater in the future. They'll know Mayweather was the lineal champ in 4 different divisions though


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## techks (Jun 4, 2013)

Rexrapper 1 said:


> Damn so Floyd has to jump to middleweight just to be an ATG? He has already fought in 5 divisions and he isn't a big welterweight. Also what if GGG turns out to be a hype job? Would Floyd get any credit for the win?


SRR did

SRL did

even Duran did

If Floyd's so great he can too but he has to, really for a challenge. He's been facing bigger guys his whole career not a big deal and if he's so great he can pick off a few solid wins at MW but in no way do I expect him to fight for a title. GGG aint Hagler. Nor is Martinez and Floyd is a business man doubt he fights either. Glad he did beat Canelo when people made a big deal about the size.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> He says Sugar Ray Leonard was better, but praises Floyd for having a better defense, talks about how you can't see his jab, and how he's a complete fighter, with the only thing lacking being aggressiveness. Also says that he's glad to have his opponents weigh 15 pounds more because he benefits from the speed advantage.


Ray Leonard IS better. There are more guys that Leonard could handle than Floyd could because he would go for it. But still, he started out heavier so it's to be expected.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Ray Leonard IS better. There are more guys that Leonard could handle than Floyd could because he would go for it. But still, he started out heavier so it's to be expected.


I doubt Leonard would beat the guys Mayweather beat at 130 lbs.
But that would have been more because of Leonard being severely weightdrained then.

In the end comparing a prime welter to a prime sfw is rather unfair.
And most people here know Leonard is greater anyway


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

dyna said:


> I doubt Leonard would beat the guys Mayweather beat at 130 lbs.
> But that would have been more because of Leonard being severely weightdrained then.
> 
> In the end comparing a prime welter to a prime sfw is rather unfair.


Leonard stopped the types of fighters Floyd fought at 130 in guys like Benitez, Green and outboxed a guy in Hagler that a guy like Floyd missed out on in Pacquiao. Not laying blame, but Leonard proved more.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Leonard stopped the types of fighters Floyd fought at 130 in guys like Benitez, Green and outboxed a guy in Hagler that a guy like Floyd missed out on in Pacquiao. Not laying blame, but Leonard proved more.


Yea, editted my post already that Leonard is greater anyway.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

dyna said:


> Yea, editted my post already that Leonard is greater anyway.


:smoke


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

How the hell could Garcia not have seen any Ray Leonard or Ali tapes!?!?! At least Robert knows the deal.


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## browsing (Jun 9, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> An ATG list is completely subjective. But obviously beating Marg would've been far better than having Baldomir there, so he would be higher up. What Floyd really needed is the win over Pac, a victory over prime Cotto would've been meaningful as well. Especially considering he struggled with the elderly version of Cotto at times.


Cotto was struggling and beaten by an elder version of Floyd Mayweather you mean.

Margarito was pounded into oblivion by Pac and whpped by Mosley, a win over Margarito means nothing.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Ugh.
> 
> Jones Jr
> Robinson
> ...


Damn fine list.



> Best I've seen on film. Sorry Muhammad :conf


:lol:


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

This is the type of topic to send @Bogotazo into a rage.



Bogotazo said:


> Who the fuck has he beaten?!


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

Stuff Bogo, Glass muthafuka when it comes to non-latino bias.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)




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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:


:rofl tommy gun got a wet cooch over that.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

O59 said:


> :rofl
> 
> Yet Jose Luis Castillo can take Mayweather to the absolute wire? A clearly inferior fighter to Duran?
> 
> ...


ORRIRAY, Where Are You?!!!!


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

I'm downloading Mayweather vs De La Hoya in 1080i as we speak. _(20 Gig cunt)_ Beautiful sharpness and colors, you can even see De La Hoya sweat dripping out as he gets hits by a right hand pull counter from Mexican Floyd Mayweather Jr.










Cool Fight. What ever happened to James Brown? Dude was a cool presenter, Lennox with his slick suit and Max Kellerman still trying to be black "Real recognize real" :rofl fuck outta here.

SD was bullshit though.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

:lol: Max a G


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## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

tezel8764 said:


> I'm downloading Mayweather vs De La Hoya in 1080i as we speak. _(20 Gig cunt)_ Beautiful sharpness and colors, you can even see De La Hoya sweat dripping out as he gets hits by a right hand pull counter from Mexican Floyd Mayweather Jr.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


James Brown is exclusively with CBS/Showtime..This was when he was on Fox for football and a free agent otherwise.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> This is the type of topic to send @Bogotazo into a rage.


:lol:

I've made peace with the fact Paulie is a diehard flomo. One of these days I'm going to reveal our top secret conversations though, just not yet. The world's not ready.


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## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

Floyd gets underrated as it stands now, but as time goes on he will be better appreciated. Not to mention the fact that he's dominating guys right now, even though he's far past his physical prime...


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> :lol:
> 
> I've made peace with the fact Paulie is a diehard flomo. One of these days I'm going to reveal our top secret conversations though, just not yet. The world's not ready.


thafuck :twisted


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## Peter Barlow (Jun 4, 2013)

Reppin501 said:


> Not to mention the fact that he's dominating guys right now, even though he's far past his physical prime...


I wonder why that is......:think


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Reppin501 said:


> Floyd gets underrated as it stands now, but as time goes on he will be better appreciated. Not to mention the fact that he's dominating guys right now, even though he's far past his physical prime...


Can't wait to tell the nooblets 20 years from now how great Money May was and how big a star he was :deal


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## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

Floyd beats Over-rated Canelo and now he's TBE... LMAO, Bahahahahhahahaha

Nothing to see here kids.. Paulie is not the most honest person. Remember Cano beat his punk ass from pillar to post and Paulie got a gift decision. Paulie really thought he won that fight.. DELUSIONAL!


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## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Can't wait to tell the nooblets 20 years from now how great Money May was and how big a star he was :deal


He's not a GLOBAL ICON like Manny!


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## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

turbotime said:


>


Who the fuck crossed out "TBE"? The Fuck


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Slugger3000 said:


> He's not a GLOBAL ICON like Manny!


No one cares what people from the PI think


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## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

turbotime said:


> No one cares what people from the PI think


I will go out on a limb and say Manny is even more popular in the States..


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Slugger3000 said:


> I will go out on a limb and say Manny is even more popular in the States..


PPV numbers suggest otherwise.


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## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

turbotime said:


> PPV numbers suggest otherwise.


Dopes buying PPV's to see Floyd get knocked out don't count! They aren't fans.. Id say that's 60% of the ppl buying his fights.. =D


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> :lol:
> 
> I've made peace with the fact Paulie is a diehard flomo. One of these days I'm going to reveal our top secret conversations though, just not yet. The world's not ready.


:lol:

I'll either be gone or dead by the time all of the research and film studying your planning on doing is fully realized.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Slugger3000 said:


> Dopes buying PPV's to see Floyd get knocked out don't count! They aren't fans.. Id say that's 60% of the ppl buying his fights.. =D


:lol: Nah TMT is a real thing nowadays :deal


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Slugger3000 said:


> Dopes buying PPV's to see Floyd get knocked out don't count! They aren't fans.. Id say that's 60% of the ppl buying his fights.. =D


can u please change ur avi. its been the same shitty johnny depp for like 2 years


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

bjl12 said:


> can u please change ur avi. its been the same shitty johnny depp for like 2 years


:rofl

Does have a point, Slug. It's almost become part of your identity though.


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

Slugger3000 said:


> Who the fuck crossed out "TBE"? The Fuck


Fuck ya.


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## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

Floyd is one of the smartest fighters ever, that is for sure. And hes almost always like 10 pounds smaller than his opponent, his entire career, even going back to Corales and Castillo. Yeah I pick guys like Hearns, SRL, Winky to beat him but those are way bigger guys. Trying to find someone who can beat him who is the same size as him and you are talking like Duran, Whitaker, and those arent guarantees either and amongst the best ever p4p, so when you got to find them to find someone who has a chance at beating floyd, you know what level he is.


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## ~Cellzki~ (Jun 3, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> can u please change ur avi. its been the same shitty johnny depp for like 2 years


:lol::lol:


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

tezel8764 said:


> Fuck ya.


You sure you don't really want elterrible's avatar instead? :verysad


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## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

ATrillionaire said:


> Over an entire career, who has lost less rounds than Mayweather?
> He doesn't have the resume to be considered TBE, but H2H, I wouldn't put my money on any fighter in history against him (same weight class).
> 
> Around here, great wins are overrated, losses are overlooked, and longevity is unappreciated (it should be one of the most important aspects one can use to judge an ATG career).


Who lost less rounds? Ward and Jones Jr.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> I'll either be gone or dead by the time all of the research and film studying your planning on doing is fully realized.


Not if my winter break has anything to say about it :ibutt


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## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

~Cellzki~ said:


> http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=new-yorkboxing&id=4758&city=newyork&src=desktop
> 
> "I think Floyd beats everyone in history, and anyone who doesn't realize that by now is stubborn, blind, stupid, or all three," he told NYFightblog. "He is the best ever."*
> 
> ...


TBE, not sure about that but BOOT? Yes.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Not if my winter break has anything to say about it :ibutt


Well most people with any sense know a grip of guys have better wins at the top of their ledgers than Floyd. Better give McCallum his due, Bogo. Especially after that rant. :lol:


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

^_^ said:


> SHO's the source of money that pays for his tanning sessions and eyebrow work. Paulie also said that Pac was the GOAT ever if he beat Cotto(e).


:lol:


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> You sure you don't really want elterrible's avatar instead? :verysad


Will do.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

:lol:


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Floyd just lacks charisma. He got a lot of good points but he just comes off arrogant.


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

Mali lost to Broner..badly

His opinion is null and void


Sent from my mom's landline
using Tapatalk


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## rossco (Jun 9, 2013)

Most boxers and trainers don't know shit about boxing history to be honest. Mike Tyson has G boxing knowledge though.

Billy Nelson thinks Joe Calzaghe is the greatest British boxer ffs. How can a top trainer in the sport be that fucking ignorant.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

MadcapMaxie: "Robinson/Greb/Langford/Armstrong is TBE"


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## KO_VALEV (Feb 5, 2014)

~Cellzki~ said:


> http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=new-yorkboxing&id=4758&city=newyork&src=desktop
> 
> "I think Floyd beats everyone in history, and anyone who doesn't realize that by now is stubborn, blind, stupid, or all three," he told NYFightblog. "He is the best ever."*
> 
> ...







*"If Manny Pacquiao beats Miguel Cotto, I'm telling you. Man, you might be the best fighter EVER. If Manny Pacquiao beats Miguel Cotto, you have to consider he may be the best fighter in history."
*
:lol:


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

sounds like Paulie wants a fight with Floyd. Could happen. I could see Floyd pick Paulie.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


>


Sorry Jeff:










Hopkins was 38.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine's_Annual_Ratings:_Pound_For_Pound--2000s


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Sorry Jeff:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:yep


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## Mr Magic (Jun 3, 2013)

That'll be SRR, thank you very much!


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Christ, Floyd's been on the p4p list for like 15 years.


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

I like Paulie but he has no sense of history.


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> He was a very good, maybe even great fighter no doubt, but I can't consider him an atg because he cherry picked most of his opposition. There's no reason Charley Burley should be missing from his resume. He wanted to cherry pick Joey Maxim for the LHW title (and failed), but he was no where to be seen when Archie Moore captured the title. Ray Robinson spent most of his career fighting flat footed guys who were tailormade for him. And he definitely wanted nothing to do with Ezzard Charles.
> 
> Is he a HOF? Yeah of course he is. Atg? I'm not so sure about that


This is a satire to make a point I'm venturing. It doesn't work because it's so asinine and so out of this world barring just one quip you've presented. One that hardly deserves the weight it gets in mentions. But it exists, at the very least. Nothing when comparing Floyd's supposed cherry-picks.


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Brownies said:


> *I agree with Dealt_with... every resume can be picked apart *and it's stupid to say things like : Oh ! Dempsey was trash... He didn't even fight Wills ! While it is true that he should've fought Wills... He's not trash because of that just like Mayweather is still an ATG even if he didn't fought Pacquiao.
> 
> BUT : I can't keep myself from typing a list of Joey Maxim's top 5 win... sorry but the guy gets treated like trash sometimes !
> 
> ...


I dare ya to try pick apart Grebs record.

But anyway for Floyd to be the best ever hed have to be the best at whatever you rank fighters on.

So hed have to have the best record or be the best fighter on film, whatever you pick on.

Can anyone make a proper case for that?


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Mayweather is the guy fighting flat footed guys tailor made for him.

Get back to me when Floyd has fought someone as skilled as Kid Gavilan @bballchump11


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

On resume he is nowhere near.

On head to head he has a better chance but I aint ever seen his fight at the levels other greats have so I wouldn't know how to tell. Its easier to look unbeatable if your competition is a fair bit lesser and this is where he fails in convincing people.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

PetetheKing said:


> This is a satire to make a point I'm venturing. It doesn't work because it's so asinine and so out of this world barring just one quip you've presented. One that hardly deserves the weight it gets in mentions. But it exists, at the very least. Nothing when comparing Floyd's supposed cherry-picks.


Yeah, you pretty much said nothing.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Mayweather is the guy fighting flat footed guys tailor made for him.
> 
> Get back to me when Floyd has fought someone as skilled as Kid Gavilan @bballchump11


That guy doesn't exist.


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