# Rocky marciano vs foreman and tyson, both horrible matchs for him but...



## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

Of course both fights would be a nightmare for rocky but if you have to pick ...against who would have the better chance?


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

Foreman is harder match up for him imo. If Marciano can make it into the later rounds with either fighter his chances increase dramatically. And the way young Forman fought in a brawl style fight against Ron Lyle does not bode well for him.


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## fists of fury (May 24, 2013)

I think Foreman is worse. Mike may have a few timing issues against a short fighter like himself. But big 'ol George and those uppercuts...nah. I love Rocky but it would be brutal.


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## kf3 (Jul 17, 2012)

well i guess the answer is tyson, both fuck up rocky, but i cant think of 1 way he legitimately beats foreman


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Tyson is much faster so I guess he will find target much faster


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

i don´t think that being faster is a big factor here, it is a thing of styles, marciano would trade with foreman so he would keep coming and foreman would hit him once and again, foreman destroyed short guys and we never saw tyson against a guy shorter than himself so maybe he would have some problems picking the range of the distance of his fight


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## Bil1234 (Jun 11, 2013)

Foreman is worse. Rocky would have enormous issues getting past his jab and managing to stay inside for any period of time to do enough damage to trouble Foreman. It'd be almost exactly like Foreman-Frazier. Against Tyson, Marciano would actually be the slightly taller man in the ring and would be able to crowd him more easily. Tyson's handspeed would obviously pose huge issues for Rocky, though.


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> i don´t think that being faster is a big factor here, it is a thing of styles, marciano would trade with foreman so he would keep coming and foreman would hit him once and again, foreman destroyed short guys and we never saw tyson against a guy shorter than himself so maybe he would have some problems picking the range of the distance of his fight


Foremen did not always destroy short guys Qawi at 5'5 and past prime was able to hit Foreman lots. Also Peralta gave Foreman problems.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

kenny black said:


> Foremen did not always destroy short guys Qawi at 5'5 and past prime was able to hit Foreman lots. Also Peralta gave Foreman problems.


well. it maybe did happen in your fantasy world.. and qawi was not 5´5 actually he was 3´8 lmao, foreman was 40 years old and he smashed qawi like a puppet around the ring.. he did not take him even seriously.. it is why "he did hit foreman lots" funny because you said qawi was past his prime but you forgot to mention that foreman was much more past his prime.. and still kicked the ass of qawi around the ring... peralta had another style and he ran.. he was outboxing foreman, he was not an aggressive short puncher, plus foreman was pretty green at this time and peralta had a great record with tons of rounds.. a 73 foreman would have stopped him much faster


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> well. it maybe did happen in your fantasy world.. and qawi was not 5´5 actually he was 3´8 lmao, foreman was 40 years old and he smashed qawi like a puppet around the ring.. he did not take him even seriously.. it is why "he did hit foreman lots" funny because you said qawi was past his prime but you forgot to mention that foreman was much more past his prime.. and still kicked the ass of qawi around the ring... peralta had another style and he ran.. he was outboxing foreman, he was not an aggressive short puncher, plus foreman was pretty green at this time and peralta had a great record with tons of rounds.. a 73 foreman would have stopped him much faster


Well, Old Foreman was considered better in many ways then Young Foreman. Did he suddenly forget how to fight small men when he faced Qawi? Why did he not simply do to Qawi what he did to past prime Frazier? Qawi took the fight on short notice and was fatter then Foreman for that fight.

Look at how sloppy and tired young Foreman was against Ron Lyle after a few rounds in a tough fight. Then look at the level Marciano is fighting at in a tough fight against Charles in the 15th round. If Foreman does not finish Marciano early he is in deep kaka imo.

Maybe you need a refresher on that fight with Qawi.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

kenny black said:


> Well, Old Foreman was considered better in many ways then Young Foreman. Did he suddenly forget how to fight small men when he faced Qawi? Why did he not simply do to Qawi what he did to past prime Frazier? Qawi took the fight on short notice and was fatter then Foreman for that fight.
> 
> Look at how sloppy and tired young Foreman was against Ron Lyle after a few rounds in a tough fight. Then look at the level Marciano is fighting at in a tough fight against Charles in the 15th round. If Foreman does not finish Marciano early he is in deep kaka imo.
> 
> Maybe you need a refresher on that fight with Qawi.


obviously you are a complete troll foreman hater, your points are horrible .. i will not even spend my time with you anymore


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## Gunner (Jun 4, 2013)

He doesn't see the second round against either man.


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> obviously you are a complete troll foreman hater, your points are horrible .. i will not even spend my time with you anymore


My points are Foreman did not always have it all his way with smaller boxers , Qawi and Peralta. And that Foreman would have to finish off Rocky early because his stamina was no where near Marciano's. He was totally spent after 5 rounds with Lyle and collapsed partially from exhaustion in the 8th round vs Ali.

There is not very much evidence that Foreman can finish Marciano early he was hardly ever hurt and was in tough fights. Foreman would also have a much harder time hitting Marciano then guys like Charles, Moore, Walcott who were hard hitters and much more pin point punchers.

These points are all normal things to look at, so I don't know what your talking about. Its subjective how the fight would really go, but there is evidence that Marciano might have more then enough going for him to beat Foreman.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

kenny black said:


> My points are Foreman did not always have it all his way with smaller boxers , Qawi and Peralta. And that Foreman would have to finish off Rocky early because his stamina was no where near Marciano's. He was totally spent after 5 rounds with Lyle and collapsed partially from exhaustion in the 8th round vs Ali.
> 
> *There is not very much evidence that Foreman can finish Marciano early he was hardly ever hurt and was in tough fights. Foreman would also have a much harder time hitting Marciano then guys like Charles, Moore, Walcott who were hard hitters and much more pin point punchers.*
> 
> These points are all normal things to look at, so I don't know what your talking about. Its subjective how the fight would really go, but there is evidence that Marciano might have more then enough going for him to beat Foreman.


:rofl:rofl


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

I would like to know the opinion of rockysplitnose... He is a big marciano fan and still i like to read his opinions..


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

kenny black said:


> Foremen did not always destroy short guys Qawi at 5'5 and past prime was able to hit Foreman lots. Also Peralta gave Foreman problems.


i am not sure but i would say that i know you... lol are you bummy davis? just a legendary troll foreman hater from east side would have the balls to say that marciano would beat foreman late based on that the "5´2 qawi" did hit old foreman a lot (and everybody know that a 40 years old foreman was better , prime foreman was in his 40s)


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> i am not sure but i would say that i know you... lol are you bummy davis? just a legendary troll foreman hater from east side would have the balls to say that marciano would beat foreman late based on that the "5´2 qawi" did hit old foreman a lot (and everybody know that a 40 years old foreman was better , prime foreman was in his 40s)


I am not bummy davis.

Old Forman fought smarter, was better techincally and was less prone to running out of energy, but was not as dynamic. Qawi was a real short fighter much shorter then Frazier and was past prime himself and took the fight on 2 weeks notice. Qawi teed off on Foreman that fight and if Foreman was so great at beating short fighters that should not have happened.

Young Forman really destroyed Frazier, but Marciano was really nothing like Frazier, so not to much should be read into it. Marciano was a lot more cautious closing distance and closed the distance in angles not in straight lines. Punched harder with both hands and had a better chin and threw a wider variety of punches each setting up the next and really changed the pattern of his attack with many different type punches. And there was much more method to his madness then some one like Frazier and is one of the reasons why Marciano was so dominant in rematches.


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## Gunner (Jun 4, 2013)

@Rockysplitnose

Edit

that was gay


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

kenny black said:


> I am not bummy davis.
> 
> Old Forman fought smarter, was better techincally and was less prone to running out of energy, but was not as dynamic. Qawi was a real short fighter much shorter then Frazier and was past prime himself and took the fight on 2 weeks notice. Qawi teed off on Foreman that fight and if Foreman was so great at beating short fighters that should not have happened.
> 
> Young Forman really destroyed Frazier, *but Marciano was really nothing like Frazier*, so not to much should be read into it. Marciano was a lot more cautious closing distance and closed the distance in angles not in straight lines. P*unched harder with both hands and had a better chin *and threw a wider variety of punches each setting up the next and really changed the pattern of his attack with many different type punches. And there was much more method to his madness then some one like Frazier and is one of the reasons why Marciano was so dominant in rematches.


yes, it is why frazier took the shots from bob foster like nothing and destroyed him in 2 rounds, a 40 years old glass chin archie moore former mw and lhw did hurt marciano and did put his ass in the floor. lmao!!! SMOKIN JOE FRAZIER WAS ABSOLUTELY BETTER THAN MARCIANO IN EVERY DEPARTMEN OF THE ART OF BOXING EXCEPT THE RIGHT HAND, FRAZIER WAS NATURALLY 20 POUNDS BIGGER, HE WAS FASTER,STRONGER,HE HAD A MUCH BETTER CHIN, HE NEVER GOT HURT BY GUYS WHO WEIGHED LESS OF 200 POUNDS AND ROCKY DID SEVERAL TIMES, FRAZIER WAS MORE AGGRESSIVE,HE HAD AS MUCH STAMINA AND HEART,HE WAS MUCH HARDER TO OUTBOX THAN MARCIANO,(HE WOULD HAVE DESTROYED GUYS LKE CHARLES AND WALCOTT MUCH EASIER THAN ROCKY DID) HE WAS BETTER PRESSURE FIGHTER, HE DID CUT BETTER THE RING, HE WAS A BETTER BODY PUNCHER HE DID hit HARDER wiTH THE LEFT HAND THAN ROCKY, I AM PRETTY SURE THAT THE LEFT HOOK THAT FRAZIER LANDED ON ALI IN 1971 WAS HARDER THAN ANY RIGHT HAND FROM MARCIANO(YES THE KO VS WALCOTT INCLUDED), SIMPLY ALI HAD IRON CHIN. IF FRAZIER LANDED THIS SHOT ON WALCOTT STILL IN 2013 YOU WOULD BE SEARCHING HIS HEAD. MARCIANO WAS IN SHAPE AT 185 POUNDS, FOREMAN PUSHED BACK THE 214/224 POUNDS OF FRAZIER 73-76 LIKE A RAGDOLL SO ROCKY AT 185 WOULD BE A LITTLE WEAK KID NEXT TO FOREMAN SO GEORGE WOULD RAPE HIM, NOW GET OUT OF HERE


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Heavy_hands his posts always have an angry feeling about them, I don't like that.
This isn't about the content of his posts directly (as if I ever talk about content anyway)
It's always like there's some grumpy grandpa shouting at you, wether I disagree or agree with him he's just so angry. :sad5


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

dyna said:


> Heavy_hands his posts always have an angry feeling about them, I don't like that.
> This isn't about the content of his posts directly (as if I ever talk about content anyway)
> It's always like there's some grumpy grandpa shouting at you, wether I disagree or agree with him he's just so angry. :sad5


:lol: NAH MAN, simply this topic " marciano had a better chin than frazier and he did hit harder with both hands" make me mad. because it is not truth and this opinion is universal in several forums.. based on what? bullshit!! yes maybe i got a bit angry, sorry


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

the foreman haters pick moments and punctual fights of foreman Strategically combining his 2 careers, does not matter if he was in his 40s, they use flaws of old foreman in order to make a point against him, hahah he was using examples like ron lyle(lyle was 35 pounds of muscle heavier than rocky, he was much taller, he had longer reach, he was stronger and probably did hit harder than rocky), still foreman won by ko after he got dropped twice and at this time he was pretty bad mentally after zaire . he is saying that there is no evidence that rocky could be stopped early lmao, he got hurt and dropped by a 40 years old lhw... what the fuck? no evidence? do you know the difference between foreman and archie moore? foreman has all the credentials here.. marciano is the one who should be defended.
cand you see any difference between a fat former lhw and a young foreman? uh?


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> :lol: NAH MAN, simply this topic " marciano had a better chin than frazier and he did hit harder with both hands" make me mad. because it is not truth and this opinion is universal in several forums.. based on what? bullshit!! yes maybe i got a bit angry, sorry


Yea, people also seem to forget that before Marciano landed that beautiful right hand on Walcott he had landed right on Walcott all night.
It was only when Walcott was really tired and stepped into the punch that he got stopped.

I do think your reply to him was pretty much 100% right.
Frazier would have killed Marciano.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

and now i will tell you like rocky would look next to foreman..


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> :lol: NAH MAN, simply this topic " marciano had a better chin than frazier and he did hit harder with both hands" make me mad. because it is not truth and this opinion is universal in several forums.. based on what? bullshit!! yes maybe i got a bit angry, sorry


Marciano was never really hurt that bad he was caught by flash knockdowns by atgs and that's it. Frazier got knocked down twice by Bonavenva and mike burce and was on queer st many times and has been plain out stopped.

Frazier maybe had a better left hook, but Marciano left hook was also lethal and I think his left uppercut packed more wallop. And the right hand of Marciano's is possibly the most powerful right hand in history and is many levels above Frazier's. Marciano has far more two handed power and this would give him a good advantage if the two ever fought.


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## janitor (Jun 28, 2013)

Hard to say in many ways. 

Against Tyson, Marciano would certainly be able to land, and that gives him a chance. 

Foreman represents the worst stylistic match for him on paper, but I sometimes wonder if people make too much of a "just so story" out of the first Frazier Foreman fight?

Style was not the only factor that contributed to that result. 

I am sorry, but Marciano did have a better chin than Frazier, he did hit harder, and he was stronger physically. That is not to say that he was better, but I am sold on those three points. 

Marciano was a more focused on counterpunching than Frazier, and that might make things interesting here. 

So in summary, two fighters for him to steer clear of, but don't assume that either of them has an easy night.


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## Minotauro (Jun 6, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> yes, it is why frazier took the shots from bob foster like nothing and destroyed him in 2 rounds, a 40 years old glass chin archie moore former mw and lhw did hurt marciano and did put his ass in the floor. lmao!!! SMOKIN JOE FRAZIER WAS ABSOLUTELY BETTER THAN MARCIANO IN EVERY DEPARTMEN OF THE ART OF BOXING EXCEPT THE RIGHT HAND, FRAZIER WAS NATURALLY 20 POUNDS BIGGER, HE WAS FASTER,STRONGER,HE HAD A MUCH BETTER CHIN, HE NEVER GOT HURT BY GUYS WHO WEIGHED LESS OF 200 POUNDS AND ROCKY DID SEVERAL TIMES, FRAZIER WAS MORE AGGRESSIVE,HE HAD AS MUCH STAMINA AND HEART,HE WAS MUCH HARDER TO OUTBOX THAN MARCIANO,(HE WOULD HAVE DESTROYED GUYS LKE CHARLES AND WALCOTT MUCH EASIER THAN ROCKY DID) HE WAS BETTER PRESSURE FIGHTER, HE DID CUT BETTER THE RING, HE WAS A BETTER BODY PUNCHER HE DID hit HARDER wiTH THE LEFT HAND THAN ROCKY, I AM PRETTY SURE THAT THE LEFT HOOK THAT FRAZIER LANDED ON ALI IN 1971 WAS HARDER THAN ANY RIGHT HAND FROM MARCIANO(YES THE KO VS WALCOTT INCLUDED), SIMPLY ALI HAD IRON CHIN. IF FRAZIER LANDED THIS SHOT ON WALCOTT STILL IN 2013 YOU WOULD BE SEARCHING HIS HEAD. MARCIANO WAS IN SHAPE AT 185 POUNDS, FOREMAN PUSHED BACK THE 214/224 POUNDS OF FRAZIER 73-76 LIKE A RAGDOLL SO ROCKY AT 185 WOULD BE A LITTLE WEAK KID NEXT TO FOREMAN SO GEORGE WOULD RAPE HIM, NOW GET OUT OF HERE


Not sure about the needs for caps but this pretty much true. People always talk about Marciano having a better chin than Frazier but he never fought anyone with even close to Foreman's power. And any fighter with Moore level power never seem to faze Joe. I'd think Bonavena might have more pure power than anyone Rocky fought not that he was better than Charles, Walcott or Moore just heavier hands. Coming to Foreman you will get hit maybe you make him miss a fair amount but power shots will land with enough frequency to stop any man and if your giving up 40lbs and a good amount of height/reach I don't see anyone winning in those circumstances.


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## janitor (Jun 28, 2013)

Minotauro said:


> Not sure about the needs for caps but this pretty much true. People always talk about Marciano having a better chin than Frazier but he never fought anyone with even close to Foreman's power. And any fighter with Moore level power never seem to faze Joe. I'd think Bonavena might have more pure power than anyone Rocky fought not that he was better than Charles, Walcott or Moore just heavier hands.


The crucial question, is not who did Marciano face who hit as hard as Foreman, it is who is the weakest puncher that dropped either of them? 

Marciano didn't know what a knockdown felt like until he met the current heavyweight champion. 

Frazier had a solid chin, but he seems to have got dropped by people who were not world class. 

On this basis, we have to assume that Marciano had the better chin.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

janitor said:


> Hard to say in many ways.
> 
> Against Tyson, Marciano would certainly be able to land, and that gives him a chance.
> 
> ...


i am sorry but you have absolutely no proof to support that, so it is based on your imagination


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

janitor said:


> The crucial question, is not who did Marciano face who hit as hard as Foreman, it is who is the weakest puncher that dropped either of them?
> 
> Marciano didn't know what a knockdown felt like until he met the current heavyweight champion.
> 
> ...


frazier never got hurt by a guy who weighed less of 200 pounds, joe simply destroyed these type of guys, even hard punchers like foster.. marciano got dropped and hurt by a 40 years old archie moore, whe are talking about power, bonavena did hit harder, was bigger(bigger is not taller) and stronger than every guy who did hurt to rocky. the facts proves that frazier had the better chin, and i am starting to think that frazier was the harde rpuncher too, he was stronger physically for sure, he was 20 pounds of muscle bigger, he was more compact he was stronger than marciano without a doubt


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

Minotauro said:


> Not sure about the needs for caps but this pretty much true. People always talk about Marciano having a better chin than Frazier but he never fought anyone with even close to Foreman's power. And any fighter with Moore level power never seem to faze Joe. I'd think Bonavena might have more pure power than anyone Rocky fought not that he was better than Charles, Walcott or Moore just heavier hands. Coming to Foreman you will get hit maybe you make him miss a fair amount but power shots will land with enough frequency to stop any man and if your giving up 40lbs and a good amount of height/reach I don't see anyone winning in those circumstances.


 charlie goldman said that bonavena was stronger and did hit harder than marciano.. but janitor will disagree hahah however we have to believe him when he says that marciano had a better chin,was stronger and did hit harder than frazier


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## janitor (Jun 28, 2013)

> heavy_hands said:
> 
> 
> > frazier never got hurt by a guy who weighed less of 200 pounds, joe simply destroyed these type of guys,
> ...


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## rockyssplitnose (Jun 7, 2012)

heavy_hands said:


> I would like to know the opinion of rockysplitnose... He is a big marciano fan and still i like to read his opinions..


LOL wondered what @Gunner was on about there but just seen - hehehe thought this thread may have been started as an attempt to bait me in :lol: so I purposely held off from responding - and it's a bit late right now so give me a while to think on it and respond old combateo - and @Gunner this sounds gay but I love the guy :smile


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> the foreman haters pick moments and punctual fights of foreman Strategically combining his 2 careers, does not matter if he was in his 40s, they use flaws of old foreman in order to make a point against him, hahah he was using examples like ron lyle(lyle was 35 pounds of muscle heavier than rocky, he was much taller, he had longer reach, he was stronger and probably did hit harder than rocky), still foreman won by ko after he got dropped twice and at this time he was pretty bad mentally after zaire *. he is saying that there is no evidence that rocky could be stopped early lmao, he got hurt and dropped by a 40 years old lhw... what the fuck? no evidence?* do you know the difference between foreman and archie moore? foreman has all the credentials here.. marciano is the one who should be defended.
> cand you see any difference between a fat former lhw and a young foreman? uh?


Do you think because Marciano was knocked down by one of the greatest knock out artists of all times in Moore means his chin is overrated? Marciano took a short count and quickly recovered, he was not seriously hurt by a pin point power punch that he walked into.

Foreman was knocked out by Ali who was no great puncher. And in danger of being ktfo by Lyle, through the fight he was on queer street more often then Marciano was in his entire career.

I don't know where you get this idea that Foreman can just knock out Marciano, its not that simple. Marciano was never really hurt that bad where Foreman was.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

:lol:
@heavy_hands goin in!


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

kenny black said:


> Do you think because Marciano was knocked down by one of the greatest knock out artists of all times in Moore means his chin is overrated? Marciano took a short count and quickly recovered, he was not seriously hurt by a pin point power punch that he walked into.
> 
> Foreman was knocked out by Ali who was no great puncher. And in danger of being ktfo by Lyle, through the fight he was on queer street more often then Marciano was in his entire career.
> 
> I don't know where you get this idea that Foreman can just knock out Marciano, its not that simple. Marciano was never really hurt that bad where Foreman was.


can you understand that archie moore was a great puncher at lhw? can you understand that a puncher at lhw is not even an average puncher against hws? bob foster did hit as hard if not harder than moore shot for shot.. and he never did hurt frazier... simply frazier took every shot from him and smashed him in 2 rounds.. archie lasted much longer in his 40s against marciano.. and he had a fucking glass chin.. it proved that the chin and the power of rocky are overrated. can you understand that foreman got stopped by ali but it has nothing to do with the power of ali or the chin of foreman? foreman got gassed, ali had super stamina, iron chin, THE REACH and THE STYLE TO TIRE FOREMAN AND HE HAD THE STYLE TO AVOID THE POWER SHOTS FROM HIM EARLY, foreman took shots from harder punchers than ali without problems in norton,frazier,cooney,morrison,stewart... marciano would tarde with foreman , he should fight him in the close distance and he would get simply killed!!! foreman was above him in every department in this type of fight of styles, foreman was much bigger,much stronger, he had much longer reach, he did hit harder, he had the better chin, and he was 40 pounds heavier


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

janitor said:


> > He got hurt/dropped by guys who were less than world class!
> >
> > Marciano didn't.
> 
> ...


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> can you understand that archie moore was a great puncher at lhw? can you understand that a puncher at lhw is not even an average puncher against hws?
> 
> Let me repeat this for you! Marciano was down for a one count and was not hurt by the punch!! Fighters that are considered to have the best chins in history have been hurt worse then Marciano ever was. Marciano has one of the best chins in the history of boxing make no mistake about it.
> 
> ...




Foreman did have a longer reach, but so did everyone Marciano fought and he never lost. So I don't see how having a longer reach then Marciano is a recipe to beat him. Not only that he was a lot fucking slower then these other fighters Marciano fought.

Maybe Forman hit harder but that is not really known. Marciano's power was tested to be enough to move 1000 pounds 1 foot off the ground and the way boxers were completely polaxed and disconected from their consiousnes, the way he punched the 300 pound heavy bag around with ease, sheered teeth, broke blood vessals, broke bones and caused tumors I would not doubt that this punch test conducted by the testing company of America to be true. Can you imagine being hit by a fist that had enough explosive energy to knock 1OOO pounds 1 foot into the air? that is how hard Marciano hit. And Rocky carried this power into the deep waters, into the 15th round if need be. Young Foreman did not like the deep waters in a tough fight. And he really would not like it with a buzz saw like Marciano he wouldn't.

And for the last time you can't say that young Foreman had a better chin then Marciano because Marciano was never hurt. He was knocked down,but never really hurt and Foreman was. Maybe it would be Marciano would have knocked Foreman out early. After all Ali knocked him out and Lyle knocked 7 shades of shit out of him. Why the fuck does Foreman knock out Marciano early? because punched out a past prime Frazier? Wtf does that have to do with anything!?


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

kenny black said:


> Foreman did have a longer reach, but so did everyone Marciano fought and he never lost. So I don't see how having a longer reach then Marciano is a recipe to beat him. Not only that he was a lot fucking slower then these other fighters Marciano fought.
> 
> Maybe Forman hit harder but that is not really known. Marciano's power was tested to be enough to move 1000 pounds 1 foot off the ground and the way boxers were completely polaxed and disconected from their consiousnes, the way he punched the 300 pound heavy bag around with ease, sheered teeth, broke blood vessals, broke bones and caused tumors I would not doubt that this punch test conducted by the testing company of America to be true. Can you imagine being hit by something that had enough explosive energy to knock 1OOO pounds 1 foot into the air? that is how hard Marciano hit. And Rocky carried this power into the deep waters, into the 15th round if need be. Young Foreman did not like the deep waters in a tough fight. And he really would not like it with a buzz saw like Marciano he wouldn't. I
> 
> ...


:lol::happy:rofl congratulations, you are the new greatest of all time troll :hi:


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

kenny black said:


> Foreman did have a longer reach, but so did everyone Marciano fought and he never lost. So I don't see how having a longer reach then Marciano is a recipe to beat him. Not only that he was a lot fucking slower then these other fighters Marciano fought.
> 
> Maybe Forman hit harder but that is not really known. *Marciano's power was tested to be enough to move 1000 pounds 1 foot off the ground* and the way boxers were completely polaxed and disconected from their consiousnes, the way he punched the 300 pound heavy bag around with ease, sheered teeth, broke blood vessals, broke bones and caused tumors I would not doubt that this punch test conducted by the testing company of America to be true. Can you imagine being hit by a fist that had enough explosive energy to knock 1OOO pounds 1 foot into the air? that is how hard Marciano hit. And Rocky carried this power into the deep waters, into the 15th round if need be. Young Foreman did not like the deep waters in a tough fight. And he really would not like it with a buzz saw like Marciano he wouldn't.
> 
> ...


http://translate.googleusercontent....8.html&usg=ALkJrhiPksgd5MmcITF97_U2vUnzLzPtFw
When Klitschko lands a direct hit on the dummy, the punch is the equivalent of 700 kilograms (1543 pounds). Comparable to a person being hit by a car traveling at 45 km/h.

Wlad punches 1.5 times as hard as Marciano.
(Unless you suddenly think a test doesn't matter in which case you were bullshitting about Marciano)

Obviously Wlad isn't foreman but I'd say their power is roughly equal.
Marciano hits hard, Foreman hits much harder.

Also this was Wladimir right before the Pienata fight, not a prime Wlad who hit a lot harder.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Also why are Marciatards always talking about the broken bloodvessels? 
It's just medical jargon for a bruise.

Little girls can bruise you, nothing special about an inshape man with thin glovev to bruise another guy


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

dyna said:


> http://translate.googleusercontent....8.html&usg=ALkJrhiPksgd5MmcITF97_U2vUnzLzPtFw
> When Klitschko lands a direct hit on the dummy, the punch is the equivalent of 700 kilograms (1543 pounds). Comparable to a person being hit by a car traveling at 45 km/h.
> 
> Wlad punches 1.5 times as hard as Marciano.
> ...


Your missing something though those punch tests are pounds per square inch or psi. The testing Marciano was involved in back in the day measured the explosive energy of his punch and how far into the air it could knock a weight off the ground . They calculated that Marciano's punch had enough kinetic energy to send 1000 pounds 1 foot into the air! That is not the same as psi. I don't know what the punch of Marciano would generate in psi it would have to be far higher then 1000 psi though.

Just imagine the explosive force it would require to send 1000 pounds air born. Its not surprising when people talk of the most devastating knock outs they have seen in their entire lives Marciano's knock outs often come up more then others. Marciano's great power also can be seen in the eye ball test this was not just a 185 power punching boxer.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

kenny black said:


> Your missing something though those punch tests are pounds per square inch or psi. The testing Marciano was involved in back in the day measured the explosive energy of his punch and how far into the air it could knock a weight off the ground . They calculated that Marciano's punch had enough kinetic energy to send it 1 foot into the air! That is not the same as psi. I don't know what the punch of Marciano would generate in psi it would have to be far higher then 1000 psi though.


Are you a fucking idiot?
psi refers to pressure and ft lbs refers to torque.

But I can do some math.
According to the article Wlad his punching power is like a Smart going 45 km/h.
"This is comparable to the collision of a smart, hitting with a speed of 45 km / h on a pedestrian." (direct quote)

I'll look up the mass of a smart and do the calculations how high Wlad could punch 1000 pounds.
Give me a moment.


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## janitor (Jun 28, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> janitor said:
> 
> 
> > ok janitor then if wladimir klitschko gets knocked out by floyd mayweather it is much better than if he gets knocked out by tyson fury.. after all mayweather is much higher than fury, doe snot matter who is naturally bigger and who hits harder h2h .. he is greater right? :lol:
> ...


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

You are not that good at basic math are you? 1000 pounds pressure does not move 1000 pounds nowhere. They are the same amount of pressure so 1000 psi punch would not send 1000 pounds anywhere. Its the same thing as if you press your hands together with equal force. Sorry to burst your bubble wiz kid.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Fortwo
730 kg for first gen Smart.
780-820 kg for second gen cabrio

45km/h= 12.5 m/s

0,5*730*12.5^2=57000 joule kinetic energy.

Gravitational potential energy= mgh
1000 pounds = 453.59237 kg.

453.59237*9.81*h=57000 (Kinetic energy is converted into gravitational energy when you propel it upwards)
h=12.8 meters

:huh
Calculations aren't wrong but if a straight right from Wlad is really like a Smart going 45km/h he would punch 1000 pounds 13 meters up in the air...
That seems like a hyperbole.

For the people without reading comprehension like kenny black: the example in the article of a smart going 45km/h is a hyperbole.


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

dyna said:


> Also why are Marciatards always talking about the broken bloodvessels?
> It's just medical jargon for a bruise.
> 
> Little girls can bruise you, nothing special about an inshape man with thin glovev to bruise another guy


Heh heh, The blood vessels Marciano broke required surgery and was serious shit, it was no bruise lol.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

kenny black said:


> You are not that good at basic math are you? 1000 pounds pressure does not move 1000 pounds nowhere. They are the same amount of pressure so 1000 psi punch would not send 1000 pounds anywhere. Its the same thing as if you press your hands together with equal force. Sorry to burst your bubble wiz kid.


You're clearly an idiot.

1000 psi isn't 1000 pounds.
Also a boxing glove isn't a sqaure inch, it's way more than a square inch.
If I turn my baby hands into a fist and punch somebody in the face my fist already has a surface area of a few sqaure inch.

But saying 1000 psi wouldn't be able to move 1000 pound already shows you're an idiot.
In a frictionless environment you can accelerate any object there is by blowing at it, especially if you can generate 1000 psi pressure in your lungs.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

And again I'll mention how much of an idiot you are.
They didn't do any pressure testing.









They probably weighed the mass of the head of the dummy and looked at the peak acceleration.

Who says besides you that the test is done in psi (and you don't even know what psi is), the 1543(700kg) pounds from Wlad his punch might as well have been foot-pound (ft lbs)*
Only you're claiming that so that you can keep the myth of Marciano his mythical punching power alive.

Edit:was most likely in ft lbs


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

dyna said:


> You're clearly an idiot.
> 
> 1000 psi isn't 1000 pounds.
> Also a boxing glove isn't a sqaure inch, it's way more than a square inch.
> ...


You obviously don't know what the fuck your talking about either there is no way Wlad can punch 1000 pounds 13 meters into the air, that would be a hell of an uppercut. All I know is if a punch can knock 1000 pounds 1 foot into the air it is harder then 1000 psi.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

kenny black said:


> *You obviously don't know what the fuck your talking about either there is no way Wlad can punch 1000 pounds 13 meters into the air*, that would be a hell of an uppercut. All I know is if a punch can knock 1000 pounds 1 foot into the air it is harder then 1000 psi.


If you had any sort of reading comprehension you'd know that I called it a hyperbole from the article.
You know what a hyperbole is?

And again you're showing you're an idiot.
1000 lb ft is a measurement of energy and 1000 psi is pressure.

You can't compare these two if those are the only 2 values you have


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Also you haven't shown that you know what psi is.

1000 psi is extremely easy to achieve if the surface area you're putting pressure on is a millimetre^2.
It's extremely hard to achieve if the surface area you're putting pressure on is a few kilometre^2, doubt that's even possible. (ergo much harder than getting 1000 pounds 1 foot in the air)

Edit:translation error vierkante mm =/= cubic mm.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

dyna said:


> Also you haven't shown that you know what psi is.
> 
> 1000 psi is extremely easy to achieve if the surface area you're putting pressure on is a millimetre^2.
> It's extremely hard to achieve if the surface area you're putting pressure on is a few kilometre^2, doubt that's even possible. (ergo much harder than getting 1000 pounds 1 foot in the air)
> ...


man, ignore the troll.. his post are crazy and biased, forget him


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Also Foreman would never be knocked down by an ex lhw in his 40s.
If Foreman and Marciano would have met, Foreman would have beaten Rocky so hard Rocky would have retired before the third round.

What is Rocky going to do when he wants to come forward and Foreman just pushes him away?
T-rex Rocky would never be able to reach Foreman with his little arms and Marciano would be stopped before the ref has time to warn Foreman for pushing.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

dyna said:


> Also Foreman would never be knocked down by an ex lhw in his 40s.
> If Foreman and Marciano would have met, Foreman would have beaten Rocky so hard Rocky would have retired before the third round.
> 
> What is Rocky going to do when he wants to come forward and Foreman just pushes him away?
> T-rex Rocky would never be able to reach Foreman with his little arms and Marciano would be stopped before the ref has time to warn Foreman for pushing.


hahah just an all time great troll would have the courage to say that marciano would ko george foreman early lol, i think that even rocky splitnose(not a troll, just a big rocky fan) disagree with him. larry holmes himself (he did hate foreman) said that george could be beaten by durable boxers but he would destroy every guy who came to him. even the biggest rocky fans are very humble when they talk about the fantasy match foreman vs rocky haha because they know the truth. jesus poor marciano


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> hahah just an all time great troll would have the courage to say that marciano would ko george foreman early lol, i think that even rocky splitnose(not a troll, just a big rocky fan) disagree with him. larry holmes himself (he did hate foreman) said that george could be beaten by durable boxers but he would destroy every guy who came to him. even the biggest rocky fans are very humble when they talk about the fantasy match foreman vs rocky haha because they know the truth. jesus poor marciano


Yea, almost universally acknowledged that Foreman beats (if not destroys) every fighter that has to come forward.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

dyna said:


> Also Foreman would never be knocked down by an ex lhw in his 40s.
> If Foreman and Marciano would have met, Foreman would have beaten Rocky so hard Rocky would have retired before the third round.
> 
> What is Rocky going to do when he wants to come forward and Foreman just pushes him away?
> T-rex Rocky would never be able to reach Foreman with his little arms and Marciano would be stopped before the ref has time to warn Foreman for pushing.


i am very curious about That would have thought marciano on foreman if he was not died in 1973-74. joe louis and dempsey said after of the fight foreman vs norton, that george was the strongest hw and the hardest puncher that they saw ever. if these 2 guys said it... foreman was no joke...


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> i am very curious about That would have thought marciano on foreman if he was not died in 1973-74. joe louis and dempsey said after of the fight foreman vs norton, that george was the strongest hw and the hardest puncher that they saw ever. if these 2 guys said it... foreman was no joke...


Marciano would have been a very happy man knowing he never had to share a division with Big George.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Toxie Hall knocked Marciano down, imagine what Foreman would do to the t-rex
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...t8pAAAAIBAJ&sjid=TSMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4828,3585694
Shame it's such a shit quality scan but it's clear that Rocky got knocked down.
And they were possibly wearing 16 ounce gloves as that was mentioned.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Found a better scanned newspaper

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...GYrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3dkEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6440,2150014
Rocky Marciano got knocked down by the then virtually unknown Toxie Hall with 16 ounce gloves on :lol:

Give me one instance of Joe Frazier being knocked down by someone wearing 16 ounce gloves


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

dyna said:


> Found a better scanned newspaper
> 
> http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...GYrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3dkEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6440,2150014
> Rocky Marciano got knocked down by the then virtually unknown Toxie Hall with 16 ounce gloves on :lol:
> ...


lol!!! janitor toxie hall is your all time great


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

dyna said:


> Also you haven't shown that you know what psi is.
> 
> 1000 psi is extremely easy to achieve if the surface area you're putting pressure on is a millimetre^2.
> It's extremely hard to achieve if the surface area you're putting pressure on is a few kilometre^2, doubt that's even possible. (ergo much harder than getting 1000 pounds 1 foot in the air)
> ...


Yeah, I know what psi is its pounds per square inch which is self explanatory. I just don't know what the results would be of Wlads punch on a 1000 pound weight would be and either do you, even though we know how hard he punches in terms of psi.


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## janitor (Jun 28, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> lol!!! janitor toxie hall is your all time great


There is big difference between doing it in sparring, and doing it in an actual fight. 

If we start getting into things that have happened in sparring, then it gets a lot more strange than Toxie Hall dropping Marciano!


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## janitor (Jun 28, 2013)

dyna said:


> Found a better scanned newspaper
> Give me one instance of Joe Frazier being knocked down by someone wearing 16 ounce gloves


There are stories about him being dropped by Carlos Monzon in sparring.

Things much stranger than fiction happen in sparring.


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

dyna said:


> Toxie Hall knocked Marciano down, imagine what Foreman would do to the t-rex
> http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...t8pAAAAIBAJ&sjid=TSMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4828,3585694
> Shame it's such a shit quality scan but it's clear that Rocky got knocked down.
> And they were possibly wearing 16 ounce gloves as that was mentioned.


Your grasping at straws Marciano had one of the greatest chins of all times.

Foreman was dropped in exhibition twice also, but I don't see how that really matters. I am just bringing it up because your making a big deal of Marciano getting dropped in a sparring session, which is childish.


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## janitor (Jun 28, 2013)

kenny black said:


> Your grasping at straws Marciano had one of the greatest chins of all time.


They missed a bit of a trick. 

Marciano was down in the Savold fight, but it doesn't seem to have been caused by a punch. 

It looks like he just missed and over carried.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

janitor said:


> They missed a bit of a trick.
> 
> Marciano was down in the Savold fight, but it doesn't seem to have been caused by a punch.
> 
> It looks like he just missed and over carried.


Not even hit by a punch?
Damn, so weak even a gust of wind already knocks the t-rex down.

:lol:


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## janitor (Jun 28, 2013)

dyna said:


> Not even hit by a punch?
> Damn, so weak even a gust of wind already knocks the t-rex down.
> 
> :lol:


It looks like he missed a punch at Savold and over carried. 

Despite evolution, a T rex could kill any five land animals alive today in the same night.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

dyna said:


> Not even hit by a punch?
> Damn, so weak even a gust of wind already knocks the t-rex down.
> 
> :lol:


:rofl


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

janitor said:


> it looks like he missed a punch at savold and over carried.
> 
> despite evolution, a t rex could kill any five land animals alive today in the same night.


yeah, but marciano did not have the advantages of the real trex, just his short arms lol


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## Johnstown (Jun 4, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> i don´t think that being faster is a big factor here, it is a thing of styles, marciano would trade with foreman so he would keep coming and foreman would hit him once and again, foreman destroyed short guys and we never saw tyson against a guy shorter than himself so maybe he would have some problems picking the range of the distance of his fight


Tyson did fight some shorter guys...and generally seemed like the felt kinda awkard with them...yeah...Rocky stands a much better chance with Tyson than Foreman.


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## Johnstown (Jun 4, 2013)

dyna said:


> http://translate.googleusercontent....8.html&usg=ALkJrhiPksgd5MmcITF97_U2vUnzLzPtFw
> When Klitschko lands a direct hit on the dummy, the punch is the equivalent of 700 kilograms (1543 pounds). Comparable to a person being hit by a car traveling at 45 km/h.
> 
> Wlad punches 1.5 times as hard as Marciano.
> ...


you don't really understand that test man..sorry. Go back to math class..or maths if your a brit.

also..why would wlad hit harder now than back than? his skills got better....not his power...


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Johnstown said:


> you don't really understand that test man..sorry. Go back to math class..or maths if your a brit.
> 
> also..why would wlad hit harder now than back than? his skills got better....not his power...


The article said like a smart going 45km/h, in which case my math was right. The article was just using a wrong comparison.
And a Smart going 45km/h has 57000 joule kinetic energy.

Your second line is bullshit as I never said that.
"not a prime Wlad who hit a lot harder."

Unless you think Wladimir this year was prime.


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## Sangria (Jul 7, 2012)

"Size is not matter!" (every post from 2008-2013) - Heavy_Hands aka CombateDeBoxeo


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

Sangria said:


> "Size is not matter!" (every post from 2008-2013) - Heavy_Hands aka CombateDeBoxeo


hahah nice to see you again, you was an all time great troll, or hall of fame for sure a tyson fanboy, but i did think that you was more serious in the present .. obviously i was wrong... of course that the size is a factor.. if not a welterweight would beat a hw.. a small great fighter would beat a big bum, but a great big fighter always will beat a great smaller fighter.


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## Sangria (Jul 7, 2012)

Chill, dude. Just replaying fond memories of ESB. Tyson fanboys can be over the top sometimes but Foreman fanboys who use a theory like "great big fighter always beat great smaller fighter" shows how clueless they really are. Too many factors to play with. Is it height and weight? Height, weight and reach? Reach and weight? I don't hold the analogy too highly. Keep up the good work, hombre!


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

Sangria said:


> Chill, dude. Just replaying fond memories of ESB. Tyson fanboys can be over the top sometimes but Foreman fanboys who use a theory like "great big fighter always beat great smaller fighter" shows how clueless they really are. Too many factors to play with. Is it height and weight? Height, weight and reach? Reach and weight? I don't hold the analogy too highly. Keep up the good work, hombre!


good question.. in my opinion the bigger man is the man with the bigger frame.. not the weight, or anything..


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## hazza (Sep 2, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> the foreman haters pick moments and punctual fights of foreman Strategically combining his 2 careers, does not matter if he was in his 40s, they use flaws of old foreman in order to make a point against him


that sounds just like Tyson haters too. they use the 90s and 00s, totally leave out what he did in the 80s. as for the poll, I voted Tyson, but I think Marciano would not go 3 with either man. Tyson vs foreman would be a much better fight. better yet, Tyson vs liston, now that I would have loved to have seen.


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## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

Heavy Hands, why do you hate Marciano so much?


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## hazza (Sep 2, 2013)

Johnstown said:


> Tyson did fight some shorter guys...and generally seemed like the felt kinda awkard with them...yeah...Rocky stands a much better chance with Tyson than Foreman.


like who? buster mathis? koed him. tony tobbs? koed him. alex stewart? koed him. these guys were all about the same height as mike. I don't think he ever fought anyone shorter than he was. mike is 5'10" (I know he's listed as 5'11 3/4" but he isn't, I've seen him in person and he's not 6 ft) can't remember ever anyone fighting him shorter than that.


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## Danny (May 31, 2012)

I feel he probably has the better chance against Tyson. Size is a big factor here and style, obviously there are comparison's to be drawn from the Frazier fight when matching Marciano up with Foreman and they are true for the most part. Regardless of whether people think Marciano is physically stronger than Frazier, or has a better chin, or a better offence (more two-fisted, more power, better counter-puncher*), I still don't feel he has the necessary strength in any of those attributes to compete with Foreman, who is physically a lot stronger, hits a lot harder and is a lot more durable and imposing in his size.

I don't see a small heavyweight with a come-forward brawler/swarming style ever beating Foreman, he's too big, strong, powerful and durable to back up and would most likely destroy anybody with that style in 5 or 6 rounds, including Marciano for my money. Rocky is an under-rated boxer IMO but set in his habits I believe and would likely still try and come forward and swarm Foreman and I just don't think it would work. Foreman is a better boxer than given credit for too behind that stiff jab.

I would still favour Tyson over Marciano of course, I just don't see any conceivable way he can beat Foreman or even make it seriously competitive, whereas I think with Tyson he could potentially make him struggle to time him a little bit as people have mentioned being that he's a lot smaller a fighter than Tyson is used to fighting and targeting, and could likely frustrate Tyson a bit with his physical strength and bullying tactics and try and force his way in to the fight in that manner. I also think he could do more work to tire Tyson than he could against Foreman so he might be able to drag him late in to the fight and give himself a chance that way.

*Disclaimer, I am mentioning these are previous claims by other posters, not saying they're true myself before people try and call me on it! Huge Frazier fan so I probably wouldn't say any of that. ^_^


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

@Danny another factor is that Tyson often got lazy on the inside

Marciano could throw those awkward shots on the inside that Tyson wasn't use to dealing with and dare I say rough him up?


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

hazza said:


> *that sounds just like Tyson haters too. they use the 90s and 00s, t*otally leave out what he did in the 80s. as for the poll, I voted Tyson, but I think Marciano would not go 3 with either man. Tyson vs foreman would be a much better fight. better yet, Tyson vs liston, now that I would have loved to have seen.


agreed


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

Phantom said:


> Heavy Hands, why do you hate Marciano so much?


are you serious? marciano was a fucking gentleman, hte man was a warrior.. the best cruiserweight of all time.. the guy would destroy any fighter under 200 pounds, i pick jack johnson against him but the version of johnson who weighed above 200 pounds. simply he is overrated by fanboys and trolls, marciano pfp was a monster!! i defend him strongly when people pick roy jones over him.. rocky would destroy his ribs


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## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> are you serious? marciano was a fucking gentleman, hte man was a warrior.. the best cruiserweight of all time.. the guy would destroy any fighter under 200 pounds, i pick jack johnson against him but the version of johnson who weighed above 200 pounds. simply he is overrated by fanboys and trolls, marciano pfp was a monster!! i defend him strongly when people pick roy jones over him.. rocky would destroy his ribs


Ok,...for the better part of what you said, ok..:good


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## rockyssplitnose (Jun 7, 2012)

Time for me to chime in Combateo! :smile

REGARDS FOREMAN:

Frazier had no trouble finding Foreman's head even with big telegraphed wound up hooks and was catching Foreman flush and surprising him

And initially it was Foreman who was having to back up a bit and try to change angles etc

And against Chuvalo Foreman was having to do a fair bit of bouncing backwards to get away from Chuvalo landing the hurtful shots and Foreman was finding himself being outlanded 3-2-1 to begin with.

And when he did try to take the upper hand he wasn't protecting his body and was taking hurt clubbing hooks to his ribs and belly for his efforts

Foreman seemed to be fighting a bit frantic where as Chuvalo didn't look to be overly worried.

foreman had a habit of getting nailed by a shot and then not learning from it and tightening up his guard a little.

People talk about Foreman's jab but Chuvalo was timing him with his own jab and counters

Foreman is fairly naive in his methods sometimes doing things like almost sucking in his belly to try to pull back from hits to it

Took until the 3rd to even hurt Chuvalo so I don't reckon the usual 2 round blast outs are always likely - and the stoppage against Chuvalo the first time he did get a little rattled was ridiculously hasty!? Chuvalo was fine he was simply standing his ground in the corner anticipating what George was throwing !?

Anyone who _really_ knew what they were doing (and did it at an even high level) made Foreman look a bit open and unsure of himself

Peralta didn't have to move very much at all (for the most part he didn't really struggle at all power or strength wise

One thing I noticed from watching lots of foreman fights (contrary to what people always say) is that I think the way to bother Foreman and give him problems is to come forward and come at Foreman confidently with punches

Plus Foreman needed his arms free to have any way of controlling his opponents and I think Rocky pounding and clubbing at the arms in close could neutralise Foreman's ability to use his arms and open gloves to keep people off etc

Foreman had neither the anticipation or reflexes or timing to do anything evasive or use any blocks or slips etc so had to be reliant on controlling the arms with open gloves and pushing people away to a safe distance - at times he would throw out a 1-2 but then he would keep both hands out there and try to push the guy away because he didn't have the know how to do anything else

These are all areas I think Rocky Marciano would capitalise against foreman and I just think the combination of Marciano just being too good at everything for Foreman plus having sufficient bull like strength and power himself for Foreman NOT to be able to have a get out of jail card for once

Marciano by stoppage over Foreman


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

rockyssplitnose said:


> Time for me to chime in Combateo! :smile
> 
> REGARDS FOREMAN:
> 
> ...


lol this one is my old friend, my dear.. i like your love for your hero, but you forget that chuvalo was a natural 215-220 pounder rmonster, bigger,stronger, probably as fast if not faster than the slow rocky, and he was tougher than marciano, and foreman was raping him against the ropes, imagine the poor marciano with his 185 pounds lol, frazier, was bigger 30 pounds heavier than marciano when he faced foreman and george had no problem pushing him back, frazier was faster than marciano could ever dream, foreman himself was faster than marciano despite the difference of size, rocky would not have even the chance to land on the chin of foreman, he would get frustrated once and again by foreman pushing him back, and his poor shots to the arms would be effective against cruisers like him, but it would be like a chiguagua biting a lion lol, peralta has nothing to do here because he was boxing around foreman and he was nothing like marciano in style haha, you did your try but my dear.. even yourself know the end for rocky here lmao


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## rockyssplitnose (Jun 7, 2012)

heavy_hands said:


> lol this one is my old friend, my dear.. i like your love for your hero, but you forget that chuvalo was a natural 215-220 pounder rmonster, bigger,stronger, probably as fast if not faster than the slow rocky, and he was tougher than marciano, and foreman was raping him against the ropes, imagine the poor marciano with his 185 pounds lol, frazier, was bigger 30 pounds heavier than marciano when he faced foreman and george had no problem pushing him back, frazier was faster than marciano could ever dream, foreman himself was faster than marciano despite the difference of size, rocky would not have even the chance to land on the chin of foreman, he would get frustrated once and again by foreman pushing him back, and his poor shots to the arms would be effective against cruisers like him, but it would be like a chiguagua biting a lion lol, peralta has nothing to do here because he was boxing around foreman and he was nothing like marciano in style haha, you did your try but my dear.. even yourself know the end for rocky here lmao


Hehehe combateo love your Rocky "slow" comments hahaha - Chuvalo was about as slows chugger as you could get!?? Rocky would look positively fast next to him!? :lol: can't believe you think Chuvalo was faster (??) than Rocky that's crazy man?? But then you can't go back on all the old slower than de snail comments of the last few years and yeah Chuvalo was as tough as a Rock but I'm afraid at world level he did get stopped by Two top hitters he faced who were elite level? Rocky didn't because he was that tough but also just flat out better on a different level altogether - ps Foreman _was not_ raping Chuvalo on the ropes he had hit hurt and stationary (and he was definitely hurt) but he was also standing firm and hanging tough and watching everything that was coming and anticipating everything coming back - the referee shit his pants and stopped it and the instant he did you can see Chuvalo totally amazed that he did - Chuvalo himself said if every referee had stopped his fights that easily that he would've lost every fight by a stoppage - he thought Foreman may have been starting to get a bit gassed just at that point aswell which is another area Marciano would've held an advantage

Ps Frazier was no way faster than Marciano and he was a hundred times easier to time and anticipate because he did everything and in an obvious 1-2-3-4 pattern and built everything up to a telegraphed left hook which and he walk face first into Foreman - Frazier fought as dumb a fight as it is possible to fight against Foreman - Marciano would never do that Marciano kept his eye on the ball at all times which Frazier didn't do - Frazier bobbing and weaving was done blindly and was done whether he knew what was coming back or not - pps peralta did not box solely around Foreman he spent a large bulk of the fight at close enough quarters with Foreman to be trading - he wasn't tapping and running - watch the fight again you will see he didn't need to run he stood in the pocket a lot and gave as a good as he got and Peralta was no Rocky Marciano

PPPS will come back with more on Tyson in a bit but will await you response to this post also - and when you respond can you use the "Rocky is slow Lika de snail" phrase for me :smile:bbb


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

The Foreman Chuvalo fight was stopped early. Chuvalo claimed his wife was at his fight for the first time, If I remember correctly. And she went into hysterics screaming and caused a big panic. Chuvalo was in no shape or form really hurt, not by his standards not by the type of punishment he could absorb.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

rockyssplitnose said:


> Hehehe combateo love your Rocky "slow" comments hahaha - Chuvalo was about as slows chugger as you could get!?? Rocky would look positively fast next to him!? :lol: can't believe you think Chuvalo was faster (??) than Rocky that's crazy man?? But then you can't go back on all the old slower than de snail comments of the last few years and yeah Chuvalo was as tough as a Rock but I'm afraid at world level he did get stopped by Two top hitters he faced who were elite level? Rocky didn't because he was that tough but also just flat out better on a different level altogether - ps Foreman _was not_ raping Chuvalo on the ropes he had hit hurt and stationary (and he was definitely hurt) but he was also standing firm and hanging tough and watching everything that was coming and anticipating everything coming back - the referee shit his pants and stopped it and the instant he did you can see Chuvalo totally amazed that he did - Chuvalo himself said if every referee had stopped his fights that easily that he would've lost every fight by a stoppage - he thought Foreman may have been starting to get a bit gassed just at that point aswell which is another area Marciano would've held an advantage
> 
> Ps Frazier was no way faster than Marciano and he was a hundred times easier to time and anticipate because he did everything and in an obvious 1-2-3-4 pattern and built everything up to a telegraphed left hook which and he walk face first into Foreman - Frazier fought as dumb a fight as it is possible to fight against Foreman - Marciano would never do that Marciano kept his eye on the ball at all times which Frazier didn't do - Frazier bobbing and weaving was done blindly and was done whether he knew what was coming back or not - pps peralta did not box solely around Foreman he spent a large bulk of the fight at close enough quarters with Foreman to be trading - he wasn't tapping and running - watch the fight again you will see he didn't need to run he stood in the pocket a lot and gave as a good as he got and Peralta was no Rocky Marciano
> 
> PPPS will come back with more on Tyson in a bit but will await you response to this post also - and when you respond can you use the "Rocky is slow Lika de snail" phrase for me :smile:bbb


hhaha
man are you serious? joe frazier was clearly faster than marciano withh feet and hands, clearly, chuvalo was not as tough, he was tougher than marciano, punchers like foreman or frazier could not drop him, even ali in his prime with his fast combinations could not break him down, and rocky was dropped by a 4o years old former middleweight-lhw archie moore , of course marciano is greater than chuvalo and pfp he is the better fighter with a wider arsenal of blows but h2h rocky did not have the size,strength,weight or chin of chuvalo, marciano did no thave the natural size to compete with foreman.. he would get destroyed.. it would not be that close.. a beating.., these both men would trade blows, it for sure, marciano did not know another way to fight, he was slow like crap and he was short like a welterweight so noway he could outpoint foreman, george was bigger,stronger,probably even faster, tougher, he hits harder and he was as great if not greater than marciano. the smaller great man would lose

o i forgot the magic words haha (marciano was slow like a turtle)


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

also.. you say that frazier fought a dumb fight.. joe frazier fought like he knew... not better or worse.. simply he could not beat foreman... probably marciano would look dumb too... but he would be doing what he can...


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## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

kenny black said:


> I am not bummy davis.
> 
> Old Forman fought smarter, was better techincally and was less prone to running out of energy, but was not as dynamic. Qawi was a real short fighter much shorter then Frazier and was past prime himself and took the fight on 2 weeks notice. Qawi teed off on Foreman that fight and if Foreman was so great at beating short fighters that should not have happened.
> 
> Young Forman really destroyed Frazier, but Marciano was really nothing like Frazier, so not to much should be read into it. Marciano was a lot more cautious closing distance and closed the distance in angles not in straight lines. Punched harder with both hands and had a better chin and threw a wider variety of punches each setting up the next and really changed the pattern of his attack with many different type punches. And there was much more method to his madness then some one like Frazier and is one of the reasons why Marciano was so dominant in rematches.


You've had good arguments but this is a little over the top. This seems a bit of like a Bruce Lee fan talking.


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## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

heavy_hands said:


> also.. you say that frazier fought a dumb fight.. joe frazier fought like he knew... not better or worse.. simply he could not beat foreman... probably marciano would look dumb too... but he would be doing what he can...


I'm banning you.


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## kenny black (Jun 5, 2013)

Mr. Brain said:


> You've had good arguments but this is a little over the top. This seems a bit of like a Bruce Lee fan talking.


Well, I don't really know what's up for debate about that post. Marciano was the harder puncher with both fists and threw a wider variety of punches. I believe his chin was greater, he was never really hurt so you cant say with any authority that his chin was worse then fighters that were ktfo and on queer st. Marciano hardly spent a moment on queer st. Marciano really did mix up his attack and like joe Louis said he threw every punch in the library not just the book. Watch Marciano when he is really unleashing the kitchen sink on a boxer and you will see he was very good at changing the pattern of punches up on his opponent, to get the final shots in. And Marciano applied a different type of pressure then Frazier did.

You see people say things like Marciano was to short but he was taller then Tyson. He was not very heavy but his power was the real thing. Maybe in general super heavy weights hit harder ,but it is not a rule, nature don't work that way, nature don't give a fuck. Look at Mickey Mantle he was about Marciano's size and he was the hardest hitter of all time in base ball, for example.


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## rockyssplitnose (Jun 7, 2012)

heavy_hands said:


> hhaha
> man are you serious? joe frazier was clearly faster than marciano withh feet and hands, clearly, chuvalo was not as tough, he was tougher than marciano, punchers like foreman or frazier could not drop him, even ali in his prime with his fast combinations could not break him down, and rocky was dropped by a 4o years old former middleweight-lhw archie moore , of course marciano is greater than chuvalo and pfp he is the better fighter with a wider arsenal of blows but h2h rocky did not have the size,strength,weight or chin of chuvalo, marciano did no thave the natural size to compete with foreman.. he would get destroyed.. it would not be that close.. a beating.., these both men would trade blows, it for sure, marciano did not know another way to fight, he was slow like crap and he was short like a welterweight so noway he could outpoint foreman, george was bigger,stronger,probably even faster, tougher, he hits harder and he was as great if not greater than marciano. the smaller great man would lose
> 
> o i forgot the magic words haha (marciano was slow like a turtle)


We're talking about the Frazier that fought Foreman here right??

Compare the prime Frazier her against Quarry with the Frazier in the second film against Foreman (obviously just observe how Frazier is looking up to the moment he starts to get yo-yo'd - if you can't see the difference then you can't be saved - Frazier did not fight his usual fight at all - he fought a fight of no imagination, no thought, no respect! No angles used and far too much time getting his own shots off and absolutely NO variation whatsoever just doing the same predictable thing over and over - ps if Marciano didn't have the size to compete with Foreman then neither did Peralta? but oh yeah Peralta gave Foreman all the problems in the world so yeah nobody 189lbs could ever compete with George I remember :smile






Compare the way prime frazier went about things with this slow predictable chugging effort






Ps have a proper look at this video and tell me that Rocky Marciano just wouldn't be able to compete with this guy :lol:


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## rockyssplitnose (Jun 7, 2012)

heavy_hands said:


> also.. you say that frazier fought a dumb fight.. joe frazier fought like he knew... not better or worse.. simply he could not beat foreman... probably marciano would look dumb too... but he would be doing what he can...


Ps what were you saying about Marciano being too small to compete with Foreman?? :smile


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## rockyssplitnose (Jun 7, 2012)

PPS does Marciano looka de slow lika de turtle in these vids against his fast and sharp opponents??


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## rockyssplitnose (Jun 7, 2012)

Tyson would be worse than Foreman - Tyson would hold an important edge in hand speed in the early going - Marciano would have to weather some heavy $h1t in the early going - Tyson didn't stand off like foreman did he came at you quick and looked to attack - Tyson was a machine although I think that there are other things which make a Marciano Tyson match a bit more interesting aswell:

I have a theory that Tyson was only really suited to (and actually drilled solely for fighting tall rangy boxers who couldn't or wouldn't punch) - I think he was drilled to be aggressive and scary to make people back up and box and hurt them early to dissuade them from risking committing too much to aggressive shots of their own - his whole approach wasn't was designed for only fighting guys who would basically only box and run for survival.

The peek-a-boo and the side-to-side head movement only really geared toward dodging long straight shots, jabs and straight right hands and his signature right hook to the body right uppercut under the chin signature move was also geared towards the body position needed to land it on upright guys of 6'3" and 6'4" upwards

I don't think any of the things Tyson did so well against those guys in the 80's and 90's point to him being in anyway effective against a guy of equal height and stature to himself - and a guy as aggressive as himself, and especially a guy with more heart and guts in there than him.

I don't think he really had a good inside game because he literally wasn't expected to need much of one because the division was full of guys at the time who didn't dally have or need one themselves because - and intact Tyson could look pretty lazy in the clinch as a result 

Also because everything was geared towards him being trained to fight guys who fought in retreat he was just not accustomed to getting nailed back full on by someone who dug their heels in and met him head on which is why he ended up looking so so shocked when the few times early in his career anyone did actually hit him back and also why it didn't take long for him to come apart at the seems when Holyfield fought him back 

I think Tyson would be so unaccustomed to fighting someone of his own height and someone who would actually relish the inside slugfest would really make Tyson look bad and I think Marciano would get literally on his chest and shoulder like he did with Rex layne dig his heels in and not give mike the room to get his shots off at that coming in range Tyson was so used to working at - no doubt about it anyone with Tyson's hand speed and power is a danger every second - see Tyson Botha for instance

Tyson did have enough fights where he was made to look bad or at the very least wasn't able to just blast people away to convince me that he could be made to wilt equally as much as he was capable of being the explosive knockout artist - he didn't dominate Tillis, he had a good old strap with Mitch Green, Ribalta hung tough, Tucker didn't get blown away and lifted Tyson up off his feet with the only real punch he threw in anger, Bruno had Tyson hurt in the 1st round and a very good finisher may have really got Tyson in big trouble at that moment - Holyfield obviously showed the way to beat Tyson by fighting with him and beating him at his own game and not fighting scared - the less said about Douglas the better - personally I think Tyson was drugged in that fight but the Holyfield fight that was legit and Holy just proved how to beat Tyson - Botha was giving Tyson a very good fight back also but was just lacking in the natural talent level to follow it through and Tyson produced one of the best one punch get outs ever anyway and the Ruddock fights showed that again it was possible to dig in and have a fight with Tyson.

But over all essentially I think that Tyson had faster hands that got on the target quicker, was more accurate, had much better form and technique and was a more explosive come at you fighter so I see him being far more dangerous at 5-second intervals whereas foreman is more likely to stand off and is also more l
I kelly to wilt in terms of stamina and is more susceptible to being rocked by shots because Tyson had a lower centre of gravity than him


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

rockyssplitnose said:


> Ps what were you saying about Marciano being too small to compete with Foreman?? :smile


Qawi wasn't that much smaller than Marciano though.
Prime +-175 lbs maybe 180 or so if he didn't have to make a weight limit.

And Qawis height was so low the awkwardness was likely an advantage besides being a defensive advantage.
And while Marciano isn't really tall either, he's still a lot taller than Qawi.

Braxton was also reachier and better defensively.
You can only really compare Qawi to other guys with a beerbarrel built, Barbados Walcott and Sam Langford.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

dyna said:


> Qawi wasn't that much smaller than Marciano though.
> Prime +-175 lbs maybe 180 or so if he didn't have to make a weight limit.
> 
> And Qawis height was so low the awkwardness was likely an advantage besides being a defensive advantage.
> ...


he forgt (magically) to mention that foreman was 40 when he faced qawi and qawi weighed 222 pounds when he faced foreman, not 185... i was going to answer his biased posts gladly until i saw that he did post the fight foreman vs qawi at example, so happy new year rocky splitnose:hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi:


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## rockyssplitnose (Jun 7, 2012)

heavy_hands said:


> he forgt (magically) to mention that foreman was 40 when he faced qawi and qawi weighed 222 pounds when he faced foreman, not 185... i was going to answer his biased posts gladly until i saw that he did post the fight foreman vs qawi at example, so happy new year rocky splitnose:hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi:


Don't give me that horse $h1t combateo! George May have been...well he was actually 39 but Qawi was no whipper snapper himself at 35 and it makes no odds how many pounds his extra fat added up to - fact is he was a 5'6" light heavyweight in reality and he was embarrassing Foreman at times especially in the first round - Clancy couldn't understand why Foreman wasn't using his jab in the first - that's because Qawi rocked him with the first few punches he threw and then proceeded hurt him again and again with right hands and this was a guy who'd barely been in a ring with anyone approaching Foreman's size - and as far as Dyna saying he was reachier!?!? Hahaha he had a 71" reach for christs sake!? You think 3 inches matters a jot when you're only 5'6"!? And what the hell has Barbados Walcott got to do with this he was a fr1gg1n welterweight - a 5'1" welterweight??? Sorry combateo my old sparring partner you'll have to come up with something a bit better than that


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## rockyssplitnose (Jun 7, 2012)

dyna said:


> Qawi wasn't that much smaller than Marciano though.
> Prime +-175 lbs maybe 180 or so if he didn't have to make a weight limit.
> 
> And Qawis height was so low the awkwardness was likely an advantage besides being a defensive advantage.
> ...


You say that prime Qawi wasn't that much smaller than Marciano yet that backs up the point that a guy naturally even smaller, lighter, and much shorter easily treats George as a punch bag yet Marciano naturally bigger, heavier, quite a bit taller wouldn't be able to compete on the basis of him being too _small???_. Go figure:huh


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

rockyssplitnose said:


> You say that prime Qawi wasn't that much smaller than Marciano yet that backs up the point that a guy naturally even smaller, lighter, and much shorter easily treats George as a punch bag yet Marciano naturally bigger, heavier, quite a bit taller wouldn't be able to compete on the basis of him being too _small???_. Go figure:huh


Foreman was quite a different boxer in his comeback and also a bit past it. (To be fair, Qawi might have been more past it in that fight considering the enormous bulk he was carrying and he was coming of a damaging loss)
The shortness of Qawi was only an advantage and made him hard to hit, he was defensively much better than Marciano and he also had more reach.

I just think Qawi stylistically is much better suited to fight Foreman than Marciano, Qawi was able to duck from punches Marciano couldn't even dream of ducking.
Stylistic clashes can negate a lot of size but I just think Rocky wouldn't have any sort of stylistic advantage to trouble Foreman.

Marciano would have to come forward without being able to duck as low as Qawi could, and when punches hit Qawi it was often on top of his head because he was so low to the ground already meanwhile Marciano has a much bigger chance to get hit right on the chin.
He's also slower than the Camden Buzzsaw so while Braxton was able to land before Foreman could, Marciano would have a harder time to do that besides having less reach than Qawi already.

In the end there's a difference between being shorter, and being so short that it starts making it awkward for your opponent to punch you.
Marciano was short, Dwight was that awkward short.
Example is that once Qawi ducks a bit he's literally impossible to be hit by Foreman his uppercut (if Foreman is standing straight), Marciano isn't short enough to do the same.
Rocky would have to worry bigtime about uppercuts which simply didn't trouble Dwight quite as much as they would have troubled a taller man.

Marciano would beat Qawi for sure but I think the Buzzsaw was simply better suited to fight Foreman than the Rock.

(Maybe if Qawi was prime he would have beaten George that night, so size is not everything indeed. I just don't think Marciano has the attributes to negate that size disadvantage)


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

rockyssplitnose said:


> Don't give me that horse $h1t combateo! George May have been...well he was actually 39 but Qawi was no whipper snapper himself at 35 and it makes no odds how many pounds his extra fat added up to - fact is he was a 5'6" light heavyweight in reality and he was embarrassing Foreman at times especially in the first round - Clancy couldn't understand why Foreman wasn't using his jab in the first - that's because Qawi rocked him with the first few punches he threw and then proceeded hurt him again and again with right hands and this was a guy who'd barely been in a ring with anyone approaching Foreman's size - and as far as Dyna saying he was reachier!?!? Hahaha he had a 71" reach for christs sake!? You think 3 inches matters a jot when you're only 5'6"!? *And what the hell has Barbados Walcott got to do with this he was a fr1gg1n welterweight - a 5'1" welterweight???* Sorry combateo my old sparring partner you'll have to come up with something a bit better than that


Mentioned him because he's only one of the few boxers with a build as stocky as Qawi.
Marciano was lanky compared to Qawi and it's extremely hard to compare the 2 fighters because of the height difference.

The little extra 3 inch reach is always a nice extra.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

rockyssplitnose said:


> Don't give me that horse $h1t combateo! George May have been...well he was actually 39 but Qawi was no whipper snapper himself at 35 and it makes no odds how many pounds his extra fat added up to - fact is he was a 5'6" light heavyweight in reality and he was embarrassing Foreman at times especially in the first round - Clancy couldn't understand why Foreman wasn't using his jab in the first - that's because Qawi rocked him with the first few punches he threw and then proceeded hurt him again and again with right hands and this was a guy who'd barely been in a ring with anyone approaching Foreman's size - and as far as Dyna saying he was reachier!?!? Hahaha he had a 71" reach for christs sake!? You think 3 inches matters a jot when you're only 5'6"!? And what the hell has Barbados Walcott got to do with this he was a fr1gg1n welterweight - a 5'1" welterweight??? Sorry combateo my old sparring partner you'll have to come up with something a bit better than that


 actually i laugh when i listen people using the fight foreman vs qawi like an example of anything.. foreman never did take qawi seriously because he wwas sure to beat him with a hand in the back that´s all, it is why he took a few shots.. but we are talking about a prime foreman vs rocky marciano, george would be hungry ,aggressive, and he would prepared to destroy marciano, not beat him.. kill him!! the only chance of rocky against a much bigger man is working the body and it would be impossible with foreman, he would push back marciano like a rag doll and once that rocky felt the type of strength and hitting power that he was facing he would be worried to survive and protect himself more than for the victory


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

marciano fought a war to beat a bum like roland, hell marciano fought wars to beat pretty small guys, The people think that Marciano was superman or anysuperhero that with his heart he will beat always any rival without mattering that it is much stronger, bigger, more powerful and thougher. marciano would lose badly in this one.. mercy stoppage


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## rockyssplitnose (Jun 7, 2012)

heavy_hands said:


> marciano fought a war to beat a bum like roland, hell marciano fought wars to beat pretty small guys, The people think that Marciano was superman or anysuperhero that with his heart he will beat always any rival without mattering that it is much stronger, bigger, more powerful and thougher. marciano would lose badly in this one.. mercy stoppage


Hahaha :lol::lol::lol: I wouldn't call the LaStarza fight _a war??_. LaStarza spent the fight boxing cleverly in retreat?? Let's be honest if he had stood and traded with Marciano he would've been beaten a lot quicker - NO WAY IN THE WORLD was that fight _a war!!??_. That's just crazy if that was a war then you must have a very low opinion of a war - LaStarza basically boxed in retreat and with each passing round his margin for error was getting smaller and smaller - from the 6th round on he was being hammered from pillar to post!? That's not a war - ps anybody who knows anything about boxing knows that LaStarza was not 'a bum' - he was amongst the cleverest losing challengers in heavyweight title history!?


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

rockyssplitnose said:


> hahaha :lol::lol::lol: I wouldn't call the lastarza fight _a war??_. Lastarza spent the fight boxing cleverly in retreat?? Let's be honest if he had stood and traded with marciano he would've been beaten a lot quicker - no way in the world was that fight _a war!!??_. That's just crazy if that was a war then you must have a very low opinion of a war - lastarza basically boxed in retreat and with each passing round his margin for error was getting smaller and smaller - from the 6th round on he was being hammered from pillar to post!? That's not a war - ps anybody who knows anything about boxing knows that lastarza was not 'a bum' - he was amongst the cleverest losing challengers in heavyweight title history!?


 please.. More biased impossible haha, the question is simple, do you think that marciano would lose against anyone? Uh my friend? Haha and we will get all we need to know..


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## rockyssplitnose (Jun 7, 2012)

heavy_hands said:


> please.. More biased impossible haha, the question is simple, do you think that marciano would lose against anyone? Uh my friend? Haha and we will get all we need to know..


How many people do you think prime Foreman would lose to?? :yep


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## rockyssplitnose (Jun 7, 2012)

heavy_hands said:


> please.. More biased impossible haha, the question is simple, do you think that marciano would lose against anyone? Uh my friend? Haha and we will get all we need to know..


Ps how many 'losing title challengers' ruling out any who were champions in other divisions - how many would you say were as clever a boxer/and as in form/coupled with as good a win-loss ratio as LaStarza?? - and I'm not going size or strength or anything related to size or strength here (I know how obsessed you are with those attributes) - just solely on how many losing challengers you would class as being as clever pure boxers (and in form) as LaStarza?? I would be interested in hearing a genuine non-biased answer from you on that without you reverting to using examples half based on them having big power or big size of course :smile. Ps if peralta could give Foreman the fits he gave him then I'd go out on a limb and say the infinitely more qualified LaStarza would give Foreman more problems still


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

rockyssplitnose said:


> How many people do you think prime Foreman would lose to?? :yep


prime ali, maybe larry holmes in his absolute peak of shape, lewis would have his chance in a rematch, he should be motivated and fighting smart , not aggressive.

waiting for your picks over rocky...


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## rockyssplitnose (Jun 7, 2012)

heavy_hands said:


> prime ali, maybe larry holmes in his absolute peak of shape, lewis would have his chance in a rematch, he should be motivated and fighting smart , not aggressive.
> 
> waiting for your picks over rocky...


So you only pick 2 possibles/maybes?!?! Well you can't point the finger at anyone else for laying down their arguments as to why a fighter they rank highly would beat any given fighter - it would be like me belittling the fact that you think no one would beat Ali just because? For whatever it's worth you already know that I think Marciano was the best (or at least for me the least likely to lose to any other given heavyweight champion in history) - there are certain guys who I think would have more of a higher chance than others of beating Marciano but I do think more often than not Marciano would be least likely to lose than any other heavyweight champion I can think of


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Foreman was more willing to go to war. So when rocky comes in foreman will happily meet him and end his night.

Tyson was better defensively and didn't feature in as many wars. But with him being quicker, stronger, harder and more durable I don't see rocky beating him.


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

rockyssplitnose said:


> so you only pick 2 possibles/maybes?!?! Well you can't point the finger at anyone else for laying down their arguments as to why a fighter they rank highly would beat any given fighter - it would be like me belittling the fact that you think no one would beat ali just because? For whatever it's worth you already know that i think marciano was the best (or at least for me the least likely to lose to any other given heavyweight champion in history) - there are certain guys who i think would have more of a higher chance than others of beating marciano but i do think more often than not marciano would be least likely to lose than any other heavyweight champion i can think of


 hahah so marciano would beat anyone.. It is all i need


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## rockyssplitnose (Jun 7, 2012)

heavy_hands said:


> hahah so marciano would beat anyone.. It is all i need


Hey combateo if you get this sounds like just a weeks ban - make sure you get yourself back on here when you can mate won't be quite the same without my old sparring partner on here - Godspeed


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## heavy_hands (Jun 6, 2013)

rockyssplitnose said:


> Hey combateo if you get this sounds like just a weeks ban - make sure you get yourself back on here when you can mate won't be quite the same without my old sparring partner on here - Godspeed


peace my old friend..


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