# *** Sergio Martinez vs Julio Cesar Chavez Jr *** Build up Thread



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)

*Sergio Martinez vs Julio Cesar Chavez Jr*
World Middleweight Championship
15th September, 2012 - Thomas & Mack Center, Las Vegas, Nevada, United States










*The Fight Card*

*Sergio Martinez vs Julio Cesar Chavez Jr* - _WORLD Middleweight Championship_
*Roman Martinez vs Miguel Beltran Jr* - _vacant WBO Super-Featherweight_
*Guillermo Rigondeaux vs Robert Marroquin* - _WBA Super-Bantamweight_
*Matthew Macklin vs Joachim Alcine* - _10 rounds Middleweight_
Thomas & Mack Center, Las Vegas, Nevada, United States


----------



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)




----------



## Joe Ko! (Jun 8, 2012)

Chavez head is huge. He has a lot of hype now, but lets not forget how he struggled with Zbik and Duddy. I think Sergio wins quite comfortably


----------



## Post Box (Jun 7, 2012)

Fuck it, I've been a fan of Chavez for a while now so might aswell stick with him for his biggest fight. Hopefully he can get Sergio against the ropes and outwork/bully him.


----------



## Miguel2010 (Jun 5, 2012)

Sergio brutal K.O


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Martinez via Decision. If theres one thing Chavez has shown in his career, its plenty of heart and an excellent chin, cant see Maravilla taking him out.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I think Chavez wins, he'll outwork Martinez and even if he just survives the judges will be onside. Chavez got WBC and Top Rank backing, no way the judges go against him if its even remotely competitive.

Serg needs a KO so he'll have to stop being a lazy bastard and giving free rounds away. Has Chavez ever looked like his chin might not hold out, cant remember him ever getting buzzed even~????


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Duddy had him buzzed I think, cant remember which round it was though.


----------



## Twelvey (Jun 6, 2012)

It's unlikely but I'm hoping Sergio punches the fucking head clean off the weight cutting drug cheat's neck and then throws it at Jose Sillyman with such force it goes straight through his corrupt chest,, thus ridding the world of 2 despicable cunts I am not fond of. 

(Martinez by KO)


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

On the subject is their any drug testing here, I suppose at least its not in Texas


----------



## Twelvey (Jun 6, 2012)

Roe said:


> *Sergio Martinez vs Julio Cesar Chavez Jr*
> World Middleweight Championship
> 15th September, 2012 - Thomas & Mack Center, Las Vegas, Nevada, United States


Also the disparity in sexyness is vast. Sergio looks like a compassionate carer for Chavez, who he has brought out to see the bright lights after a horribly disfiguring facial accident.


----------



## Twelvey (Jun 6, 2012)

chatty said:


> On the subject is their any drug testing here, I suppose at least its not in Texas


I doubt it will be much more than the standard urine tests.


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

I think Chavez is going to out point him. He'll pressure Sergio who will drift in the middle rounds. I also don't think Sergio is as slick as people make out, and he has been dropped before. Chavez has the power to trouble him (perhaps score a knockdown) and the reach to dictate the pace of the fight

Chavez via very close decision


----------



## Miguel2010 (Jun 5, 2012)

Segio...bang....Night night manhead.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Miguel2010 said:


> Segio...bang....Night night manhead.


Pretty much.

Chavez has literally no defense at all. He'll be taking Martinez's fully loaded left hands flush. He won't be able to take them for too long.


----------



## Mandanda (Jun 2, 2012)

Well bar the very aggressive finish by JCC i wasn't impressed with him against Lee. No jab, seems easy to hit because he doesn't move head or work off angles he just bulls forward. 

He's going to rely on his sheer strength and will to win here. It's going to be a fun ride. Sergio's going to have some tough patches in the fight but when it's all said and done the cream will rise to the top and Chavez will be beaten. Now if this goes to points Sergio's gonna get robbed IMO and yes i know Jnr was down on the cards against Lee but this is a different fight and just got a bad feeling. So hope he keeps his KO streak going and takes him out for the good of the sport. 

September 15th the trash needs to be taken out!. I have no time for Jr. Dirty fighter..


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

**** CHECK HOOK BOXING'S unOFFICIAL 'MARAVILLA MARTINEZ VS JULIO JUNIOR' POLL THREAD! ****

Who U picking? :hey:hey:hey:hey:hey


----------



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)

@Chacal - Just merged your thread into this one because we already had a similar thread :good


----------



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)




----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Roe said:


> @Chacal - Just merged your thread into this one because we already had a similar thread :good


But mine was OFFICIAL


----------



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)

Chacal said:


> But mine was OFFICIAL


No it wasn't. Yours was _too_ official. Also this poll had 7 votes compared to your 1.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Roe said:


> No it wasn't.


It had official in the title.


----------



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)

Chacal said:


> It had official in the title.


Well I could sue you for false advertising then.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Roe said:


> Well I could sue you for false advertising then.


It was official to me


----------



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)

Well it's not any more.


----------



## JFT96 (Jun 13, 2012)

I would have preferred to post this in Chacal's official thread but oh well, Martinez on pts. There's a clear disparity in class for me and only JCC JR's excellent chin will keep him upright from the amount of punches he'll eat I reckon.

I never predict a robbery cos I don't like to guess what the judges will do but in such a high profile fight like this, I doubt there will be one.


----------



## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

i would have preferred to say this in he official thread, but martinez is gonna go down as a great mw.

i've got him comfortably top 40 if he beats chavez. if he can then unify with sturm i think he breaks my top 30. combine that with a couple more defences and maybe 2 more years at the top and he establishes his greatness imo.


----------



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)

JFT96 said:


> I would have preferred to post this in Chacal's official thread





lufcrazy said:


> i would have preferred to say this in he official thread


:lol:


----------



## 1971791 (Jul 14, 2012)

I don't think that Martínez can afford to give up the middle rounds this time, like he has done against Pavlik, Macklin, Williams and maybe Barker as well.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

JFT96 said:


> I would have preferred to post this in Chacal's official thread but oh well, Martinez on pts. There's a clear disparity in class for me and only JCC JR's excellent chin will keep him upright from the amount of punches he'll eat I reckon.
> 
> I never predict a robbery cos I don't like to guess what the judges will do but in such a high profile fight like this, I doubt there will be one.





lufcrazy said:


> i would have preferred to say this in he official thread, but martinez is gonna go down as a great mw.
> 
> i've got him comfortably top 40 if he beats chavez. if he can then unify with sturm i think he breaks my top 30. combine that with a couple more defences and maybe 2 more years at the top and he establishes his greatness imo.


Thanks lads 

Anyway, I'm picking Martinez late tko. Chavez's chin isn't as good as some people are making it out to be. Who has it really been tested against? Zbik? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't rate Martinez as high as some, I think his resume is quite average (Under rated by some, over rated by some), he is very skillful and I like watching his style.


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Im looking for Chacals Official Martinez vs Chavez Jr build up thread, but it seems it have dissappeared. Guess ill have to do my posting in this crappy, cheap knock off thread :conf

Anyways, ive heard that Chavez-Martinez is selling very well at this point, just goes to show you that quality fights can make big money still. Boxing would be in a lot healthier shape if the fights people really want to see can be made.


----------



## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

I think Sergio will stop Chavez. Level above.


----------



## Hook! (Jun 8, 2012)

sergio is gunna stop him


----------



## Matty lll (Jul 29, 2012)

If you'd ask me this before the Barker and Macklin fights I'd have said that Martinez would have absolutely destroyed Chavez Jr but after those fights and seeing how Barker(sort of) but mainly Macklin had some success against Martinez I think Chavez stands a much better chance now. Plus I think Chavez has improved somewhat, he's less of a unrefined brawler and is now a much better pressure fighter, Martinez likes to take rounds of and I don't think he can do that with Chavez Jr. 

Plus, Chavez is tough and won't be discourgaed if things don't go his way early on and you have to figure that with the massive size advantage Chavez will make it tough going for him late in the fight. I don't know if Chavez will win but I think he'll make it a good fight. I like both guys so that's all I'm hoping for.


----------



## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

12downfor10 said:


> It's unlikely but I'm hoping Sergio punches the fucking head clean off the weight cutting drug cheat's neck and then throws it at Jose Sillyman with such force it goes straight through his corrupt chest,, thus ridding the world of 2 despicable cunts I am not fond of.
> 
> (Martinez by KO)


Well, I can't say as that I wish actual death on Chavez Junior, but I do quite like what you're saying about Sulaiman...


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)




----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Look at Chavez gettin real. Hope they both bring that attitude to the ring on the 15th...

Just out of curiosity, do you guys think you pay too much for HBO?


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Awh fuck yeah @Wallet . Sergio is going to fucking ruin this kid. That nearly made me cum.


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

I still think Jr is gonna fuck him up in the middle rounds to snatch a points win


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Vano-irons said:


> I still think Jr is gonna fuck him up in the middle rounds to snatch a points win


That's my guess although I think Martinez might do enough for a comfortable win and have it snatched by the judges.

Because will still don't know Chavez' true level this fight could go many ways. I'm hoping Chavez is a lot bigger than Martinez and can take his shots as it should then be a bit of a war. Sergio is the better boxer but Chavez can bring some real pressure and throw a hell of a lot of punches at Martinez.


----------



## GazOC (Jun 2, 2012)

Masterclass time.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I do beleieve Martinez has to knock him out though. I honestly think he could win all 12 rounds and if Chavez is still standing he'll get a SD. Just gotta feeling the powers that be want Chavez to win this one massively.


----------



## Scotty (Jun 6, 2012)

There is a reason why Sergios last few opponents have boxed conservative behind a tight defence. 
Chavez has too machismo to try it. Probably a good job because he doesn't have the skill to pull it off either.:yep

Predict Martinez wins as Chavez is pulled out for his own good


----------



## Miguel2010 (Jun 5, 2012)

Sergio will lay this chump out.

Fact.


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

chatty said:


> That's my guess although I think Martinez might do enough for a comfortable win and have it snatched by the judges.
> 
> Because will still don't know Chavez' true level this fight could go many ways. I'm hoping Chavez is a lot bigger than Martinez and can take his shots as it should then be a bit of a war. Sergio is the better boxer but Chavez can bring some real pressure and throw a hell of a lot of punches at Martinez.


It's all about Sergio's second wind for me. If the fight is in the balance by the 9th, both will go to war which will be spectacular to watch. I'm honesty buzzing for this!


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

This fight really is jizz worthy, it deserved its own 24/7 type show imo. Definitely the best fight we've had in the middleweight division since Pavlik-Taylor.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Sportofkings said:


> This fight really is jizz worthy, it deserved its own 24/7 type show imo. Definitely the best fight we've had in the middleweight division since Pavlik-Taylor.


24/7 begins next week or the week after I believe


----------



## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

This fight is making me realise how many people are forgetting how much of a killer Martinez is and how still relatively untested JCC is. I think the Barker/Macklin fights were a showing of great potential and determination from both men, and not so much that Sergio wasn't as good as he's rated. Martinez seemed to be overly patient, but he stepped it up in the second half and when Macklin scored that 'knockdown', shit got *real*.


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content










Damn, that was an great fight.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I'm not underrating Martinez and he could well blitz Chavez but Chavez presents a different challenge in that he has so far shown a solid mandible, a high work-rate and will probably be 20lbs bigger than Martinez come fight night. I think it would be silly to write him off altogether especially as his resume is pretty solid, if unspectacular.


----------



## GazOC (Jun 2, 2012)

Size could be a factor but other than that Matrinez has just mixed in far better company than JCC and I think that will be difference on fight night.


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

chatty said:


> I'm not underrating Martinez and he could well blitz Chavez but Chavez presents a different challenge in that he has so far shown a solid mandible, a high work-rate and will probably be 20lbs bigger than Martinez come fight night. I think it would be silly to write him off altogether especially as his resume is pretty solid, if unspectacular.


If Chavez utilises the usual walk forward strategy I cannot see any other outcome that Martinez walking him onto something massive and sparking him out.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Bryn said:


> If Chavez utilises the usual walk forward strategy I cannot see any other outcome that Martinez walking him onto something massive and sparking him out.


That could well happen but if Martinez can't spark him he could be walked down as well. Chavez seems to have a decent dig although maybes not massive one punch power but if he is willing to take one to land one then he 20lbs (if he does come in as heavy as expected) could do some damage here.

All this of course is why the fight is a quality match up. we can sort of guess what Chavez brings to the table but none of us truly know until after this fight is over.


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

chatty said:


> That could well happen but if Martinez can't spark him he could be walked down as well. Chavez seems to have a decent dig although maybes not massive one punch power but if he is willing to take one to land one then he 20lbs (if he does come in as heavy as expected) could do some damage here.
> 
> All this of course is why the fight is a quality match up. we can sort of guess what Chavez brings to the table but none of us truly know until after this fight is over.


He's so basic though, I can't see him bringing anything to the table that Martinez can't handle. If he wasn't tough, well conditioned and determined he's have fuck all (you can say that about many fighters). He's certainly more of an accumulative puncher than a big banger, can't see him causing more trouble than Macklin, for example.

As you say though, it's interesting and I do take your points.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

I think if Martinez don't hurt Chavez early, he could be in trouble. He don't need to lay back and pick, he needs to come right at him and get some respect. Body shots will be big. He has the edge in footwork so he should use it...


----------



## Twelvey (Jun 6, 2012)

I really am hyped for this, Sergio is going to be way too sharp and quick for JCC and will blitz him as he plods forward. It gets interesting if JCC jnr can take those shots.


----------



## Robney (Jun 15, 2012)

Waravilla! :ibutt

Martinez by KO... even if he doesn't :bart


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Tony Weeks the referee with judges Stanley Christodoulou, Adalaide Byrd, Dave Moretti...


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

allenko1 said:


> Tony Weeks the referee with judges Stanley Christodoulou, Adalaide Byrd, Dave Moretti...


Weeks is a very good referee, no problems with him. All of the officials are very experienced, which is good, but Moretti im not sure about, hes made a few bad calls, most recently in giving the Pacquiao-Marquez 3 fight to Pacquiao. Cant complain too much though, if the officials do their fucking job :yep


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Experienced judges who shouldn't be swayed one way or the other. But now:

"Canelo" Alvarez-Josesito Lopez Joe Cortez the ref with Dick Flaherty, Burt Clements, Glenn Trowbridge judging...


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)




----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

Enjoyed the Face-off, Martinez seems to really resent Chavez for being a paper champion. Maravilla is more spiteful than I've seen him in a build up.


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

@Wallet thanks man. That was brilliant!

War Martinez!!!


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Very good edition of this, its great to have some new faces on 24/7 as well.


----------



## Twelvey (Jun 6, 2012)

Wallet said:


>


:clap: 
I'm in love with Sergio. What a man.


----------



## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Julio is such a tool at times.


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)




----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

JCC training hard... http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/videohub/video/clipDeportes?id=1584415&categoryid=834455&cc=7586

:staredog


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

Wallet said:


> JCC training hard... http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/videohub/video/clipDeportes?id=1584415&categoryid=834455&cc=7586
> 
> :staredog


:lol: The bit where he's sliding around and fucking up the heavy bag pushups thing is amazing. atsch


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

:huh


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

What's your beef, son?


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

No beef, @Bryn


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

Wallet said:


> No beef, @Bryn


Thought not. :smoke


----------



## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

I find it hard to give Jr much of a chance. He looks okay against stationary opponents without lateral movement. Can he cope with Sexy Sergio and his fleet feet?


----------



## Barlivia (Jun 8, 2012)

Think the face off show with kellerman showed how immature chavez is, thought martinez made him look a bit silly at times he didn't know how to respond to him. 

Martinez takes this on points for me can't see chavez being able to deal with the head and feet movement of martinez. He won't just stand there and go toe to toe with him like lee did atsch


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

There is a chance that Martinez is underestimating him though. He seemed like he dosen't think Chavez is on is level...


----------



## ScouseLeader (May 31, 2012)

allenko1 said:


> There is a chance that Martinez is underestimating him though. He seemed like he dosen't think Chavez is on is level...


That's a fair assessment though, on Martinez's part. I think he's right, he's a really smart guy as you can tell.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

ScouseLeader said:


> That's a fair assessment though, on Martinez's part. I think he's right, he's a really smart guy as you can tell.


You got to fight the man scouse, not debate him. He will feel Chavez' punches in the ring. He will have to make his punches felt. He'll have to move, he will indeed have to use his head in there to win. Barker and Macklin are tough guys but, to compare to Chavez is not right, no matter how lightly you think he's been tested...


----------



## ScouseLeader (May 31, 2012)

allenko1 said:


> You got to fight the man scouse, not debate him. He will feel Chavez' punches in the ring. He will have to make his punches felt. He'll have to move, he will indeed have to use his head in there to win. Barker and Macklin are tough guys but, to compare to Chavez is not right, no matter how lightly you think he's been tested...


I agree there, it won't be easy for Martinez he is fighting a durable guy but I don't see Chavez being on his level. Though, I do think Martinez would be better to treat Chavez with a little more respect just in case Chavez surprises him.


----------



## Parmenides (Aug 27, 2012)

I'm hoping for a good fright from these two. Frankly, it's nice to see another big fight not involving anyone named Floyd or Manny. That's good for the sport. It would be great if these two had a war for the ages. Chavez looks huge standing next to Sergio, but right now, i think Martinez is "the man!"

Edited:

By the way this is my first post.

Asian Handicap Betting


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Cotto-Margarito I? I could see that. I can also really see Martinez running and pity-patting to a decision. Chavez can't waste time, got to get to him early and make it his fight...


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Parmenides said:


> I'm hoping for a good fright from these two. Frankly, it's nice to see another big fight not involving anyone named Floyd or Manny. That's good for the sport. It would be great if these two had a war for the ages. Chavez looks huge standing next to Sergio, but right now, i think Martinez is "the man!"
> 
> Edited:
> 
> By the way this is my first post.


Welcome. :good


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

I've got a horrible feeling that Martinez is getting robbed, he's never exactly gotten the rub of the green and Jr is the fighter that's trying to be moulded into the next ODLH...or JCC.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

@Bryn if its not a complete beatdown and gos tot the cards I reckon Jnr has this, Suliaman and Arum will be all out to make sure Jnr becomes money man


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

JCC is gonna' be huge compared to Sergio, and I reckon he has the beard to take the champions firepower.

The mid rounds will be key for me. Martinez will sting early, then it's Jr's turn. If Martinez doesn't get hurt himself I see him getting his championship rounds second wind to punch out a close but clear decision that he won't get.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

What is this "Martinez can't win a decision" nonsense. It most likely will be a close enough fight and I feel like this is a setup for when Chavez wins yall are gon say "see, told ya he couldn't win" I totally disagree. Who says they'll be the judges...


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Dan Rafael ‏@danrafaelespn
The public workout for @maravillabox on Tuesday was canceled due to "security threats." Car at his house was vanadlized.


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)




----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)




----------



## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

allenko1 said:


> You got to fight the man scouse, not debate him. He will feel Chavez' punches in the ring. He will have to make his punches felt. He'll have to move, he will indeed have to use his head in there to win. Barker and Macklin are tough guys but, to compare to Chavez is not right, no matter how lightly you think he's been tested...


Jr isn't any more proven than Macklin, imo. His best win is over Rubio and he didn't do as good a job as Pavlik, years before.

Chavez will need to land his punches to make them felt. That will be where he struggles. He's never stopped a top flight opponent. His recent opponents were cherry picked to make him look good.

Sergio looks like he's taking Jr very seriously. He recognises the improvements, but they won't be enough to make this more than a fun fight.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Macklin had one good win: Asikainen. Every fight after that he looked shite.

And Amin was past his best; no better than Zbik at that stage IMO. 

Not that it matters here but I'd pick Jr to muller Macklin.


----------



## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Macklin had one good win: Asikainen. Every fight after that he looked shite.
> 
> And Amin was past his best; no better than Zbik at that stage IMO.
> 
> Not that it matters here but I'd pick Jr to muller Macklin.


I'm not really saying Macklin is special, but his close loss to Sturm is better than any of Jr's wins for me.

And based on how matt fought Sergio, I think he could beat Jr. Different strokes, I guess.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Sturm himself is just Euro level for me as well.


----------



## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Sturm himself is just Euro level for me as well.


Do you think Jr would beat Sturm?


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Given Macklin's gameplan getting him so close I'd say 100% yes, Jr would beat Sturm no issues. In Germany he'd still likely be robbed though.

There is no way Martin Murray does anything better than Chavez Jr and he won about 4 rounds off Sturm!!! And he, IMO, is a domestic level fighter with ideas way above his station.


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Macklin is a lot better than he has been given credit for in the past. I remember after the Varon fight, people were given him some serious shit, which I thought was necessary. Then he went up another level against Sturm and Martinez, and proved he was capable of giving any fighter around trouble. He swarmed Sturm with pressure aggressive, yet utilized some really good head movement. I also thought the way in which he adapted against Martinez was class and showed he wasn't a one dimensional pressure fighter with one gameplan. He knew he was going to get destroyed if he tried to pressure Martinez, so he decided to box off the back foot more, pick his shots, get in and out. He deserves some props for the those two performances.

Fights between Sturm vs Chavez and Macklin vs Chavez, would be very close and hard to call. Chavez is strong as hell, has solid power and can take a great shot, but Sturm has the tools to give him a lot to think about. He wouldn't be as open as the like's of Zbik or Lee, he always has that excellent jab, and he still has solid boxing skill's and durability. He is also very experienced at world level. The Macklin/Gevor/Murray fights gave me the impression that Felix was past it and it was just a matter of time before he was beaten. But that performance against Zbik changed my mind, he look class, boxing the ears off him and making him quit. He had a fair easier time with him than Chavez had, who had to fight tooth and nail with Zbik. No doubt Chavez's pressure will tell against Sturm, and it will be close, but I think Felix could pull off a close decision win, legitimately. 

It'd be interesting to see Macklin's gameplan against Chavez, it'd be in his best interest's to box off the backfoot more rather than fight with the bigger, stronger Mexican. If he boxed, and his stamina held up, I reckon he could nick a close points decision. His biggest flaw is his stamina in the late rounds though, and that has effected him throughout all of his career. When Chavez come's on strong and starts landing hard shot's later on in the fight, he could very well stop Macklin. Hard to call.


----------



## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

@Sportofkings I'd forgotten Sturm's pasting of Zbik. Good call - that's a telling point.

Sergio is levels ahead of Jr.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

I'm not saying Chavez is amazing. Just that Martinez is not all that either. Arguably the worst middleweight chanpion ever including Paul Pender...okay, not Jermaine Taylor!


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> I'm not saying Chavez is amazing. Just that Martinez is not all that either. Arguably the worst middleweight chanpion ever including Paul Pender...okay, not Jermaine Taylor!


Bit of an exaggeration there, for all we know Martinez could reign till hes in his forties, his legacy isn't half done yet. out of all the lineal champs, hes better than Antefermo and Minter.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

No way is he better than Antufermo and Minter.


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> I'm not saying Chavez is amazing. Just that Martinez is not all that either. Arguably the worst middleweight chanpion ever including Paul Pender...okay, not Jermaine Taylor!


:-(


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Yeah. He's shocking and his 'ability' is completely overrated. 

Barker is so far away from world class it's unreal and he caused Martinez problems.


----------



## Back to Bill (Jun 5, 2012)

I'm not as confident as some about this fight, of course the potential robbery is at the back of my mind but even without that I'm not confident of Sergio's chances and I don't quite know why, He has the skillset to pummel Chavez's huge fat head and I really want too but I got a feeling this is going to be close and Chavez will surprise a few people.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Yeah. He's shocking and his 'ability' is completely overrated.
> 
> Barker is so far away from world class it's unreal and he caused Martinez problems.


:-(


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Chacal said:


> :-(


Who the fuck are you?


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

Based on recent performances, I think Chavez has looked the stronger of the two, I know everyone is banging on about it but I think the weight Chavez will carry on fight night will be a key factor. I dont think Martinez has the power to really KO Chavez, hurt him probably but he doesnt follow up that well and hes certainly no great finisher, so if Chavez can take his best punches then I think he can pressure and outwork him to a points job. A few fights back I was sure Martinez had this, but while he hasnt looked great Chavez has improved fight by fight.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I think Chavez has to take the fight to him early and not let him get into a flow. Martinez has suffered mid-fight lulls but I thought in his two fights against the Brits, he started slow and that could be a huge advantage point for Chavez.

Chevez is no defensive master, that's for sure but for a roach fighter he takes more care with his defensive duties when coming inside, he needs to put pressure on early and use his weight to bog Martinez down and test to see if his punches have an effect. If so then draw him into a war, if not then he is going to have to play the long game and rely on his chin a bit and trying to outpuch Maravilla.

Martinez has bigger fight experience and will use the ring, probably boxing on the back-foot initially. He will probably wait for Chavez to come into one of his punches like Williams did so Chavez has to be careful of that also. 

I'm finding it a hard pick for this one, I mean Martinez deserves to be a fairly heavy favourite but I'm not as convinced about how good he is as others are.


----------



## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

BUMPY KNUCKLES said:


> Based on recent performances, I think Chavez has looked the stronger of the two, I know everyone is banging on about it but I think the weight Chavez will carry on fight night will be a key factor. I dont think Martinez has the power to really KO Chavez, hurt him probably but he doesnt follow up that well and hes certainly no great finisher, so if Chavez can take his best punches then I think he can pressure and outwork him to a points job. A few fights back I was sure Martinez had this, but while he hasnt looked great Chavez has improved fight by fight.


Against fighters hand picked to make him look good. Lee would have lost to the last two Sergio faced.


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

@Flea Man is back, run for the hills! :err


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

dftaylor said:


> Against fighters hand picked to make him look good. Lee would have lost to the last two Sergio faced.


Yeah maybe, its still enough for me to think hes gonna out work Serg. I think Chavez would have beat the last two Serg faced, better than Serg did. We will see, I think this is a tough fight to call I've changed my mind on once or twice but I'm gonna go with Chavez this time.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Bryn said:


> @Flea Man is back, run for the hills! :err


Don't be like that :-( I'm a nice guy!


----------



## Jim Bowen (Jun 2, 2012)

Bryn said:


> @Flea Man is back, *run for the hills!* :err


It's not the hills he wants to watch out for, its the valleys. :wales


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Sergio is fucking class, end of story, Cant wait till the 22nd when he's kicking Jr's ass:yep


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Not all that a win though is it? Unproven, basic weight cutter of an opponent.


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Sportofkings said:


> Cant wait till the 22nd when he's kicking Jr's ass:yep


He's going to do it for a whole week?


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Even taking into account the fact that Jr's belt is worthless and rightfully belongs to the man he's fighting, the Mexican has to be considered a solid contender and a good win. Every fight adds a bit to the resume. Don't really get what your criticism of Martinez is coming from Flea, is giving Sergio credit too main stream for you?


He's proven himself a solid champion and is beating solid competition in a mostly entertaining fashion. Can't ask more than that. Not fair calling him shocking and calling him the worst champ,,w hens hes only five fights into his reign either.


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Wallet said:


> He's going to do it for a whole week?


You damn right :ibutt


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

Jr is gonna walk through Sergios shots, if the same Martinez that fought Barker and Macklin turns up he will get beat up, lets face it the guys being hyped up to be something he is not, what did he do to become this p4p superstar? Beat Pavlik and Williams, if that makes him great then, well fuck me.


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

Martinez might be the best looking middleweight ever I think no ****.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

He's just too overrated for my liking.



Sportofkings said:


> Even taking into account the fact that Jr's belt is worthless and rightfully belongs to the man he's fighting, the Mexican has to be considered a solid contender and a good win. Every fight adds a bit to the resume. Don't really get what your criticism of Martinez is coming from Flea, is giving Sergio credit too main stream for you?
> 
> He's proven himself a solid champion and is beating solid competition in a mostly entertaining fashion. Can't ask more than that. Not fair calling him shocking and calling him the worst champ,,w hens hes only five fights into his reign either.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Who the fuck are you?


Someone who doesn't go out of his way to underrate a fighter simply for being over rated in the first place.


----------



## ScouseLeader (May 31, 2012)

Chacal said:


> Someone who doesn't go out of his way to underrate a fighter simply for being over rated in the first place.


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

ScouseLeader said:


>


:lol: oh its on now!


----------



## Indigo Pab (May 31, 2012)

ScouseLeader said:


>


:lol: I LOVE when you post this.

WHOA NELLY


----------



## Wiirdo (May 31, 2012)

:lol: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM


----------



## Bajingo (May 31, 2012)




----------



## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

WOAH NELLY


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Chacal said:


> Someone who doesn't go out of his way to underrate a fighter simply for being over rated in the first place.


Hardly 'underrating' him just putting things as I see it. Creating some balance so to speak.


----------



## Jay (May 31, 2012)

op


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Hardly 'underrating' him just putting things as I see it. Creating some balance so to speak.


You kinda were underrating him though, but it's okay, from what other people are saying you underrate every fighter born after 1965.

Sergio is no ATG obviously, anyone who says he is can be rightly accused of overrating him, but he is one of the best p4p fighters in the world today and the best middleweight in the world bar none. Calling him the worst middleweight champion of all time, claiming he is "shocking" and has "completely overrated ability" is just retarded.


----------



## Jay (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> I'm not saying Chavez is amazing. Just that Martinez is not all that either. Arguably the worst middleweight chanpion ever including Paul Pender...okay, not Jermaine Taylor!


You forgot Kelly Pavlik :hey


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Jay said:


> You forgot Kelly Pavlik :hey


Yeah, Pavlik a G


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Chacal said:


> You kinda were underrating him though, but it's okay, from what other people are saying you underrate every fighter born after 1965.
> 
> Sergio is no ATG obviously, anyone who says he is can be rightly accused of overrating him, but he is one of the best p4p fighters in the world today and the best middleweight in the world bar none. Calling him the worst middleweight champion of all time, claiming he is "shocking" and has "completely overrated ability" is just retarded.


You're a cheeky bastard. Good luck. 
@Jay revoke my MOD rights please; won't be good for the image of CHB if I'm seen giving mouth back to this guy who clearly has me down to a tee.


----------



## Jay (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Look forward to me hounding your every post from now on you cheeky bastard.


Go get him flea! Don't hold back! Feel free to send him to Gulag!


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> You're a cheeky bastard. Good luck.
> @Jay revoke my MOD rights please; won't be good for the image of CHB if I'm seen giving mouth back to this guy who clearly has me down to a tee.


1) I see you.

2) Look forward to me hounding your every post on here from now on you cheeky bastard.

3) You're a cheeky bastard. Good luck. 
Jay revoke my MOD rights please; won't be good for the image of CHB if I'm seen giving mouth back to this guy who clearly has me down to a tee.

Why do you keep editing the post?


----------



## Jay (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> You're a cheeky bastard. Good luck.
> *@Jay revoke my MOD rights please; won't be good for the image of CHB if I'm seen giving mouth back to this guy who clearly has me down to a tee.*


no


----------



## Indigo Pab (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> won't be good for the image of CHB


If Jay was truly worried about that he'd step down from his role.....


----------



## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

:rofl


----------



## ScouseLeader (May 31, 2012)

This thread was pretty boring until recently :yep


----------



## Jay (May 31, 2012)

Pabby said:


> If Jay was truly worried about that he'd step down from his role.....


----------



## ScouseLeader (May 31, 2012)

Seeing as everyone is kicking off, I'd just like to say that I only mentioned wanting to be a mod like once, in passing, yet people said I was obsessed with the idea. nufc_gay made a thread and never shuts up about wanting to be a mod.

Why doesn't he get lambasted?


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

ScouseLeader said:


> Seeing as everyone is kicking off, I'd just like to say that I only mentioned wanting to be a mod like once, in passing, yet people said I was obsessed with the idea. nufc_gay made a thread and never shuts up about wanting to be a mod.
> 
> Why doesn't he get lambasted?


ScouseLeader for mod!


----------



## Jay (May 31, 2012)

ScouseLeader said:


> Seeing as everyone is kicking off, I'd just like to say that I only mentioned wanting to be a mod like once, in passing, yet people said I was obsessed with the idea. nufc_gay made a thread and never shuts up about wanting to be a mod.
> 
> Why doesn't he get lambasted?


For the love of god! Still? It's been almost 3 fucking months!!!!


----------



## Wiirdo (May 31, 2012)

ScouseLeader said:


> Seeing as everyone is kicking off, I'd just like to say that I only mentioned wanting to be a mod like once, in passing, yet people said I was obsessed with the idea. nufc_gay made a thread and never shuts up about wanting to be a mod.
> 
> Why doesn't he get lambasted?


:lol::lol:


----------



## Indigo Pab (May 31, 2012)

Chacal said:


> ScouseLeader for mod!


This.

I also enjoy lambasting Nuff tbg.


----------



## Hook! (Jun 8, 2012)

:rofl


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Chacal said:


> 1) I see you.
> 
> 2) Look forward to me hounding your every post on here from now on you cheeky bastard.
> 
> ...


Because it sounded too rude. I don't know you, let alone 'hate' you. For other posters they're used to it, to the uninitiated you might actually think I'm a horrible person and not get the joke.

And no @Jay he can't be sent to the gulag for having an opinion on my, admittedly, sometimes ignorant statements.

But yes, Martinez is more flash than substance IMO and Darren Barker was an abysmal challenger with a shocking gameplan.


----------



## Jay (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> And no @Jay he can't be sent to the gulag for having an opinion on my, admittedly, sometimes ignorant statements.


:fire

No one misbehaves on here! :-(


----------



## ScouseLeader (May 31, 2012)

Jay said:


> For the love of god! Still? It's been almost 3 fucking months!!!!


:lol: I'm just being topical.


----------



## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

I'm going with Sergio in this one. Chavez isn't ready imo and I think Sexy Serg is experienced and good enough to take advantage of Chavez' flaws. 

People are talking a lot about how Barker gave Sergio a bit of trouble. If you want to go down that route then you can see that Lee gave Chavez some bother in their fight and I for one really really don't rate Lee at all. Also, Chavez is no way going to fight a bit like Barker did. How many times does the cliche 'styles make fights' have to be said before peeps start listening to it? Barker came in with a great game plan for Sergio and was very disciplined with that which is why he had so much success. I don't think Chavez can fight that defensive disciplined compact style even if he wanted to.

Chavez likes to use his weight and bully fighters. I don't think Martinez is very susceptible to being bullied. 

Gonna be close, could be a decision either way but I like Sergio's chances of catching him at some point and finishing it.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Because it sounded too rude. I don't know you, let alone 'hate' you. For other posters they're used to it, to the uninitiated you might actually think I'm a horrible person and not get the joke.
> 
> And no @Jay he can't be sent to the gulag for having an opinion on my, admittedly, sometimes ignorant statements.
> 
> But yes, Martinez is more flash than substance IMO and Darren Barker was an abysmal challenger with a shocking gameplan.


At least you recognise what I'm saying. I don't think you're a horrible person, I was just putting my opinion down. I just think you were underrating him. He's the best of poor division by a mile.

Also, Barkers gameplan was the only reason he was competitive.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Jay said:


> :fire
> 
> No one misbehaves on here! :-(


He's not 'misbehaving' though is he?!

As I say, his time will come, I'll more dismayed that he already has been told that I don't rate anyone born after '65 which is bullshit, it's '70.


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

I think Chacal just claimed the event win here, some achievement for a newbie:clap:


----------



## Jay (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> He's not 'misbehaving' though is he?!
> 
> As I say, his time will come, I'll more dismayed that he already has been told that *I don't rate anyone born after '65 which is bullshit, it's '70.*


:conf

I was close enough.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Jay said:


> :fire
> 
> No one misbehaves on here! :-(


I'm sure the gulag will have some prisoners once the boxing is good enough for people to ask for streams


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Chacal said:


> At least you recognise what I'm saying. I don't think you're a horrible person, I was just putting my opinion down. I just think you were underrating him. He's the best of poor division by a mile.
> 
> Also, Barkers gameplan was the only reason he was competitive.


I don't rate this era at all. So for me, when I hear Sergio is a brilliant fighter it irks me.

I like Sergio don't get me wrong, but he's not all that from a technical standpoint neither does he have the reflexes to pull off what he thinks he's capable of. The fact that Barker and Macklin were competitive with him speaks volumes to me as I don't think there as good as Golovkin, Pirog or, dare I say it, Chavez Jr.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Sportofkings said:


> I think Chacal just claimed the event win here, some achievement for a newbie:clap:


:smoke


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Sportofkings said:


> I think Chacal just claimed the event win here, some achievement for a newbie:clap:


Not if I edit all his posts to 'I love Flea Man' :yep


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> He's not 'misbehaving' though is he?!
> 
> As I say, his time will come, I'll more dismayed that he already has been told that I don't rate anyone born after '65 which is bullshit, it's '70.


Ive seen your picture, you look like you in your mid 20's, yet behave like a pretentious historian snob on the forums, you have a decent bank of knowledge but its the way you go about your business putting down practically every modern champion is pretty sickening/pathetic/laughable.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Lunny my Barker thing was not a direct comparison with Chavez, just to show Sergio is not levels above everyone in the division. He's very bearable IMO.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

BUMPY KNUCKLES said:


> Ive seen your picture, you look like you in your mid 20's, yet behave like a pretentious historian snob on the forums, you have a decent bank of knowledge but its the way you go about your business putting down practically every modern champion is pretty sickening/pathetic/laughable.


Shut up you fucking window licker.


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Shut up you fucking window licker.


Lol, I thought the fact I've seen your picture would mean you wouldnt start throwing round insults, but apparently some people just dont get it.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

If anyone thinks boxing with bigger gloves, less rounds, a smaller talent pool, less regular fighting, loads of belts and the best rarely fighting the best is not an inferior product then I'm all ears.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

BUMPY KNUCKLES said:


> Lol, I thought the fact I've seen your picture would mean you wouldnt start throwing round insults, but apparently some people just dont get it.


The fact you'd judge someone on their appearance is exactly why I didn't dignify you with a proper response. What the fuck is youseeing a photograph of me supposed to mean? Oh, I shouldn't stick to my guns and my opinions because someone thinks I don't look hard, oh that's something new, get fucked.

I get more from your posts: you're borderline illiterate and your analytical ability is abysmal.


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> If anyone thinks boxing with bigger gloves, less rounds, a smaller talent pool, less regular fighting, loads of belts and the best rarely fighting the best is not an inferior product then I'm all ears.


No your right but it doesnt mean that you cant take what we see here and now and imagine them in those situations and make assments on how they would do, Martinez would whoop Basillios slow azz I think.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

BUMPY KNUCKLES said:


> No your right but it doesnt mean that you cant take what we see here and now and imagine them in those situations and make assments on how they would do, Martinez would whoop Basillios slow azz I think.


Yeah, Ray Robinson certainly used his superior speed to beat Basilio handily didn't he, oh, no wait....


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Yeah, Ray Robinson certainly used his superior speed to beat Basilio handily didn't he, oh, no wait....


Also from I've seen of SRR I would say he looks no better than SRL or Tommy Hearns, but then I know we havent seen him as a welterweight where undoubtbly he was better, but the fact is you overate the fighters of the past and underate alot of the modern guys.


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Not if I edit all his posts to 'I love Flea Man' :yep


Mate if I was you id nuke this thread altogether, cant let what transpired here get out, or your reputation on the forums would be ruined:stonk


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Sportofkings said:


> Mate if I was you id nuke this thread altogether, cant let what transpired here get out, or your reputation on the forums would be ruined:stonk


Chacal a G


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> If anyone thinks boxing with bigger gloves, less rounds, a smaller talent pool, less regular fighting, loads of belts and the best rarely fighting the best is not an inferior product then I'm all ears.


:deal I agree with this 100% - not to say that boxing is completely inferior now but it has lost a lot of steam since the 70s/80s


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

BUMPY KNUCKLES said:


> Also from I've seen of SRR I would say he looks no better than SRL or Tommy Hearns, but then I know we havent seen him as a welterweight where undoubtbly he was better, but the fact is you overate the fighters of the past and underate alot of the modern guys.


Wasn't any better than Leonard or Hearns? Two of the greatest fighters ever. What point are you trying to make?

If your knowledge isn't all that on the history of the sport (not a problem, not everyone hasn't had a girlfriend for years or the spare time to swot up, that's one thing I'd like to make clear not having a massive interest in the old timers is NOT a bad thing) surely you can't say I'm overrating the old timers because you yourself don't have the same points of comparison?

Again, Sergio would beat Basilio. Discuss.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Sportofkings said:


> Mate if I was you id nuke this thread altogether, cant let what transpired here get out, or your reputation on the forums would be ruined:stonk


I know you're winding me up but all jokes aside there are as many 'noobs' I have encouraged and many debates where I've learned something and been put right.

And I always admit if the old me started posting today I would massacre him! I used to think boxing had evolved so much (and this is the actual example I used) Audley Harrison would KILL (literally) Jack Dempsey with a JAB!

I used to think the old timers were unskilled 'tough guys' on the level of a Butterbean-esque club fighter, unwatchable and wholly inferior to the likes of Floyd Mayweather. Then I started actually watching 'em without my blinkers on and reading up and yeah, I was wrong.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Could Basilio even put on enough weight to meet the middleweight division now, I doubt he would box there in today's world, he was only 5'6'' and I think his highest weight was 157 or near enough.

We doing this fight at Light middle - it would make better sense


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

chatty said:


> :deal I agree with this 100% - not to say that boxing is completely inferior now but it has lost a lot of steam since the 70s/80s


Agree 100%.

But are there great light heavyweights I could see Ward having a stylistic advantage over? Definitely. Are there many fighters that have got me as excited as I was when I saw Gamboa's early fights? Nope, not many.

Would Nonito Donaire be all that as a featherweight/lightweight? No, not IMO, bloody good but not garnering the attention and reputation as a 'P4P phenomenon' as he is now.

I've always made the point that it's the sport that has made inferior fighters, not the other way round. These guys are not appalling stylists, they're just not as proven as their historical counterparts.

In my opinion.

Hence why Sergio Martinez has got a big challenge to his middleweight championship coming up; against, pre 1980s, a HEAVYWEIGHT!


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

chatty said:


> Could Basilio even put on enough weight to meet the middleweight division now, I doubt he would box there in today's world, he was only 5'6'' and I think his highest weight was 157 or near enough.
> 
> We doing this fight at Light middle - it would make better sense


Nah, make Martinez cut to 160 on the day of the fight, he doesn't cut a huge amount anyway. 15 rounds (more time for him to keep his second wind or simply more of a mid rounds lull) and he can wear whichever gloves he feels more comfortable in.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Lamotta was a massive middleweight for his day and sometimes really struggled to make the limit; he was more a light heavy! Chavez is what, 190 in the ring?


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> I know you're winding me up but all jokes aside there are as many 'noobs' I have encouraged and many debates where I've learned something and been put right.
> 
> And I always admit if the old me started posting today I would massacre him! I used to think boxing had evolved so much (and this is the actual example I used) Audley Harrison would KILL (literally) Jack Dempsey with a JAB!
> 
> I used to think the old timers were unskilled 'tough guys' on the level of a Butterbean-esque club fighter, unwatchable and wholly inferior to the likes of Floyd Mayweather. Then I started actually watching 'em without my blinkers on and reading up and yeah, I was wrong.


Fair point, I was the same only a couple of years ago before I started looking at the old timers and respecting their talents and records. I do think the abilities of some of the fighters for era's gone by tend to be a little overrated though. This may sound controversial but I will not watch fighters from pre 1940's because it just seems inferior, with a few exceptions. I know that their were some legendary fighters from that era and they were tough as nails, but the technique was very un refined for the most part. The golden era of boxing for me is from 40's-80's.


----------



## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> @Lunny my Barker thing was not a direct comparison with Chavez, just to show Sergio is not levels above everyone in the division. He's very bearable IMO.


Sorry, wrote that before seeing your latest reply. Wasn't meant to be a personal reply to your Barker thing, just a general one as a few people have been saying it.

I agree that Martinez is beatable and has clear flaws but I don't see Chavez as the man to do it.

Still, it's a great fight for me. Can't wait.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Its a tough one, I think having a mid fight lull against a tough ever come forward boxer like Basilio and he could bang a bit as well. The overall size advantage could be prove to be a factor here but I don't like Sergio's style in this one.

Low hands, laziness at points, less than stella work rate is not the best style against this type of fighter and Basilio had a solid mandible as well so I'm not counting on a T/KO either. 

Over 15 and with 40s gloves I like Basilio. Over 12 and with modern gloves then I think Martinez could see out a points decision.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Sportofkings said:


> Fair point, I was the same only a couple of years ago before I started looking at the old timers and respecting their talents and records. I do think the abilities of some of the fighters for era's gone by tend to be a little overrated though. This may sound controversial but I will not watch fighters from pre 1940's because it just seems inferior, with a few exceptions. I know that their were some legendary fighters from that era and they were tough as nails, but the technique was very un refined for the most part. The golden era of boxing for me is from 40's-80's.


Jack Johnson, yeah, but from the Walker Law onwards it's superb. Tunney, Canzoneri, Ross, Louis, and many more make me pretty sure that McLarnin and Baer's apparent crudeness works really well with smaller gloves.

And Marco Huck, Giovanni Segura and Carl Froch show me, in every era, there are exceptions to the rule and extremely crude fighters that can beat the very best.

I'd imagine if you fighting once a month or so these fighters might be even more horrible to come up against.

I know what you mean though, of course. I've been arguing 'til I'm blue in the face the last few days that Jess Willard and Jack Dempsey would do well to last a combined two rounds combined against Prime Mike Tyson and it's still ongoing 

As for older records sometimes getting overrated, I agree when it's people just listing names rather than looking into the context of the bouts taking place.

But the same can be said for modern records. You've seen it a millions times.

POSTER: Flea, how can you not have Floyd in your top 50? You're so fucking biased.

ME: But how can you rank him over Luis Manuel Rodriguez, who has nearly as many notable victories, giving up weight, as Floyd has fights?

POSTER: I've never heard of him but I see Emile Griffith beat him 3 times out of 4 so he can't be that good.

Nah mean? :good


----------



## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

BUMPY KNUCKLES said:


> Also from I've seen of SRR I would say he looks no better than SRL or Tommy Hearns, but then I know we havent seen him as a welterweight where undoubtbly he was better, but the fact is you overate the fighters of the past and underate alot of the modern guys.


I'd pick Robinson to beat Hearns by brutal knock-out in the 6th and to out-point Ray at welter, and stop him late rounds at 160. He'd outpoint Hagler comfortably too. IMO, obviously.


----------



## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> And Marco Huck, Giovanni Segura and Carl Froch show me, in every era, there are exceptions to the rule and extremely crude fighters that can beat the very best.


Froch is a little awkward, but is he really that crude? It's aesthetically ugly, but there's some quite thoughtful technique in his work.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Lunny said:


> Sorry, wrote that before seeing your latest reply. Wasn't meant to be a personal reply to your Barker thing, just a general one as a few people have been saying it.
> 
> I agree that Martinez is beatable and has clear flaws but I don't see Chavez as the man to do it.
> 
> Still, it's a great fight for me. Can't wait.


No worries I didn't think it was just letting you know where I stood mate :good

And I agree, pumped for this one, biggest fight of the year for me, really can't pick 'em and it's a fight for the lineal middleweight championship, one of my favourites so I'm eager to see what transpires! So many variables here, and the styles guarantee excitement IMO. Can't wait!

I'm quite cynical about the HBO Face Offs but this one was incredible! Probably my joint fave with B-Hop-Pascal.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

dftaylor said:


> Froch is a little awkward, but is he really that crude? It's aesthetically ugly, but there's some quite thoughtful technique in his work.


That's exactly my point.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

dftaylor said:


> I'd pick Robinson to beat Hearns by brutal knock-out in the 6th and to out-point Ray at welter, and stop him late rounds at 160. He'd outpoint Hagler comfortably too. IMO, obviously.


But well beaten by Roy Jones. As would everyone that ever lived at middleweight.


----------



## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> But well beaten by Roy Jones. As would everyone that ever lived at middleweight.


Now I'm not sure how to take this...


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

dftaylor said:


> Now I'm not sure how to take this...


What?! You've known me for THIS long and you've never heard me wax lyrical on Roy?!


----------



## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> No worries I didn't think it was just letting you know where I stood mate :good
> 
> And I agree, pumped for this one, biggest fight of the year for me, really can't pick 'em and it's a fight for the lineal middleweight championship, one of my favourites so I'm eager to see what transpires! So many variables here, and the styles guarantee excitement IMO. Can't wait!
> 
> I'm quite cynical about the HBO Face Offs but this one was incredible! Probably my joint fave with B-Hop-Pascal.


" So many variables here, and the styles guarantee excitement IMO"

That's exactly it! There's so many questions about how these 2 fighters can cope with eachother and so many ways you can see either or them win or lose.

The face-off was class, Martinez was such a don in it. His face when he asked Chavez how he was going to beat him was great. 
@Pabby has got me well excited for the next few weeks of boxing. So much juice.


----------



## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> What?! You've known me for THIS long and you've never heard me wax lyrical on Roy?!


Actually, no. I generally avoid Jones-related conversations because, more often than not, they descend into "cherry picker" "GOAT", etc instead of any real conversation.

I'm curious why you think he's so formidable though. Technically he was a disaster even in his prime.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

dftaylor said:


> Actually, no. I generally avoid Jones-related conversations because, more often than not, they descend into "cherry picker" "GOAT", etc instead of any real conversation.
> 
> I'm curious why you think he's so formidable though. Technically he was a disaster even in his prime.


That's exactly why I think he's so formidable. Monzon wouldn't have a fucking clue what to do with him.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Lunny said:


> " So many variables here, and the styles guarantee excitement IMO"
> 
> That's exactly it! There's so many questions about how these 2 fighters can cope with eachother and so many ways you can see either or them win or lose.
> 
> ...


Sergio was superb, steely. Jr though, didn't come across as a tosser either IMO. He seemed to know Martinez is very good and Sergio seemed to recognise Chavez is a worthy challenger. Some snipes but Martinez carried it IMO, oozed class (and obviously I had a stonk on just looking at him)


----------



## Lunny (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Sergio was superb, steely. Jr though, didn't come across as a tosser either IMO. He seemed to know Martinez is very good and Sergio seemed to recognise Chavez is a worthy challenger. Some snipes but Martinez carried it IMO, oozed class (and obviously I had a stonk on just looking at him)


:lol: It's only natural. Would be gay if you didn't.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> But well beaten by Roy Jones. As would everyone that ever lived at middleweight.


What?


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Chacal said:


> What?


What?


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

The fuck has happened here? :lol:


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Lunny said:


> :lol: It's only natural. Would be gay if you didn't.


:rofl


----------



## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Gay. It's the new straight.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Sergio had the air of Gus about him in the Face Off.


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

:lol: fuck this, I'm going back to Eastside


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

I think Felix Sturm is a bit underrated on the sexiness metre, think he's defo the second sexiest middleweight in the world. Opinions? (No **** of course)


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

Vano-irons said:


> :lol: fuck this, I'm going back to Eastside


:hi:


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Sportofkings said:


> I think Felix Sturm is a bit underrated on the sexiness metre, think he's defo the second sexiest middleweight in the world. Opinions? (No **** of course)


Nah, Peter Quillin's got a massive cock I reckon, yummy!


----------



## Bajingo (May 31, 2012)

1. Martinez
2. Sturm
3. Chavez Jr

For both criteria.


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Nah, Peter Quillin's got a massive cock I reckon, yummy!


:rofl "yummy"


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

Bryn said:


> :hi:


I suppose I asked for that



Flea Man said:


> Nah, Peter Quillin's got a massive cock I reckon, yummy!





Bajingo said:


> 1. Martinez
> 2. Sturm
> 3. Chavez Jr
> 
> For both criteria.


:rofl


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Nah, Peter Quillin's got a massive cock I reckon, yummy!


Good point, Quillin cant fucked with these abs though, could do my washing on them










Shout out to Dazzling Darren Barker to, fellas got those Euro level looks:yep


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Sportofkings said:


> Good point, Quillin cant fucked with these abs though, could do my washing on them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Last line absolutely killed me off :rofl :clap:


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

chatty said:


> I think Chavez wins, he'll outwork Martinez and even if he just survives the judges will be onside. Chavez got WBC and Top Rank backing, no way the judges go against him if its even remotely competitive.
> 
> Serg needs a KO so he'll have to stop being a lazy bastard and giving free rounds away. Has Chavez ever looked like his chin might not hold out, cant remember him ever getting buzzed even~????


Excellent breakdown. I agree whole heartedly.

But I've gone for Sergio via K.O. Last three rounds. He's gonna' lay it on and even Margarito, Campas, Cuevas, folded eventually.

Unless, no, course not, that would be silly....but could Jr have a _Villasana_ level chin???


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Wait....what was this thread about again?


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Golovkin worthy of a shout


----------



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)

:rofl at this thread.

I just saw the face/off. Terrific stuff. Both look so confident and up for it. I think it's gonna be a truly great fight. Fight of the year written all over it IMO.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Sergio could probably outbox him for the twelve but I think his ego will come into play here and he'll want the KO and get drawn into a war. Chavez can fight well at short range (better than he can long) so it could come down to who has the most resilience, well at least I hope it does. If he has papas chin then that will help him.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Roe said:


> :rofl at this thread.
> 
> I just saw the face/off. Terrific stuff. Both look so confident and up for it. I think it's gonna be a truly great fight. Fight of the year written all over it IMO.


If this thread was official it wouldn't have went this off track.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Sportofkings said:


> Wait....what was this thread about again?


See the post above yours that I'm quoting :good


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

chatty said:


> Sergio could probably outbox him for the twelve but I think his ego will come into play here and he'll want the KO and get drawn into a war. Chavez can fight well at short range (better than he can long) so it could come down to who has the most resilience, well at least I hope it does. If he has papas chin then that will help him.


I don't rate Martinez as a _huge_ banger but then I did rate P-Dub as having an iron chin.

Chavez seems to be making a more concerted effort than Williams ever did at keeping his hands up and not maximising his opponents blows by walking straight into them.

Obviously he'll never be on his Dad's level but for Jr's style his Dad is the best example of all-round offensive machine; to be one, you have to blend defence so seamlessly that to the untrained eye it appears you have little.

He's improving fight by fight but it's a lot to learn for a guy that has always blocked punches with his face. Not in time
to take the edge off the heat Martinez will no doubt bring in flurries over the course of the fight.

I hope there's a stoppage, post-decision debates are always the same nowadays, shock horror that the powers that be have rigged a fight even though we had the same moan a few months prior.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I've been watching his fights over again as I want to write an article on him this week and he does try to cover up when he comes in, he just isn't very good at it and gets caught a bit. I'm not sure how much your going to teach a guy who has been pro for ten years (nearly) so now's the best time to test him. If his chin can hold out then he has a good chance because he has good stamina and can smoother quite well and judges like boxers who throw loads, no matter how many are wasted.

I don't think he'll walk onto one like Williams did though, if it comes I think it will be late after eating lots of leather. Martinez has a good chin as well and Chavez isn't a one punch banger so I'm reckoning on it going the distance.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Again, fair analysis. I'm just hoping it won't go the distance.


----------



## Indigo Pab (May 31, 2012)

Ain't nothin' gay 'bout finding certain men to be lovely.


----------



## Indigo Pab (May 31, 2012)

Anybody who doesn't mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm when looking at Luis Concepcion isn't a real man, straight up.


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

Lets not forget that Martinez has been dropped a few times as well. While the majority were down to balance (Williams, Macklin, Pavlik), it may cause a problem if it goes to points as it'll certainly be scored a 10-8, even if sexy dominates the rest of the round. And I'll reiterate my point about Martinez's sloppy middle rounds where he barely throws anything. Jr will keep coming and take these rounds with his work rate.

For what it's worth, I think both are hitting the deck in this one, and I still think Jr sneaks a points win


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Pabby said:


> Anybody who doesn't mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm when looking at Luis Concepcion isn't a real man, straight up.


Don't be gross he's a midget. I only like guys from lightweight and up.


----------



## Indigo Pab (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Don't be gross he's a midget. I only like guys from lightweight and up.


I'm not sure why you're into being so heavily outweighed. I don't know about you buddy but I want to be seen as the more masculine figure in _my_ homosexual relationships.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Pabby said:


> I'm not sure why you're into being so heavily outweighed. I don't know about you buddy but I want to be seen as the more masculine figure in _my_ homosexual relationships.


Not _More_ masculine, just on an equal level of masculinity to me.

Concepcion, as cute as his little hairdo is, would be like fucking a small boy, regardless of his power. I don't know about you but I don't to be able to get sucked off by a man who doesn't need to get on his knees to do it in _my_ homosexual relationships.

If anyone makes a joke about me and Thailand I will permaban you :lol:


----------



## Indigo Pab (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> If anyone makes a joke about me and Thailand I will permaban you :lol:


:rofl I was in the process of thinking up one.

El Nica is the same height as Vida Guerra, and I don't know about you but when Vida Guerra inevitably presents herself to the Pab I won't be telling her to back off because she isn't of sufficient height.

It'll be because she's a female.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

:rofl

But yeah, tiny chicks are great.


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

I don't know about you, but;

:rofl


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

I think I preferred this thread when it was just me posting videos to myself... :err


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Wallet said:


> I think I preferred this thread when it was just me posting videos to myself... :err


Sorry, I guess.


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

Martinez outboxes Basillio simple, the problem with Robinson was that he was only to happy to fight on the inside where it was not his advantage and could of beaten basillio from the outside with ease, which is what Martinez would do, SRR overated though I dont think he stops Hearns or Leonard and could easily loose to either.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

BUMPY KNUCKLES said:


> Martinez outboxes Basillio simple, the problem with Robinson was that he was only to happy to fight on the inside where it was not his advantage and could of beaten basillio from the outside with ease, which is what Martinez would do, SRR overated though I dont think he stops Hearns or Leonard and could easily loose to either.


Yeah, alright pal. It's lose not loose you spaz.

So, Billy Graham had serious hassle with Basilio (second time anyway) but Martinez will 'outbox him, simple'? What is it about Sergio's pretty low output style, where he takes rounds off, that makes you think he can outmanoeuvre an iron chinned stifling marauder like Basilio? If you'd said 'Basilio was a bleedernand Sergio's choppy fast punches would likely open him up' I'd see where you're coming from.

As for Robinson let's hear

-Why is he overrated?
-Why was he not all that on the inside and why was that 'his problem'? 
-Did Basilio not force Robinson to fight his fight because he had the chin to cut the ring off with no issues? And if so, how does Martinez compare to Robbo' as a puncher, in terms of variety as well as power?

I'm genuinely loving this, you're so uninformed it's unreal, but please proceed.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Chacal said:


> Sorry, I guess.


It seemed you were taking umbrage to my earlier statement that Roy Jones was pretty much unbeatable at middle. You never said why?


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> It seemed you were taking umbrage to my earlier statement that Roy Jones was pretty much unbeatable at middle. You never said why?


I don't feel comfortable saying that considering the PED allegations, his chin and the quality of opposition he faced.

1) Steroids put a * over the career of any and every fighter who has been proven to be a cheat, regardless of their excuses.

2) I can't picture him doing what he did to Percy Harris or Glen Wolfe to ATG middleweights.

3) With a chin like that, there is always a huge variable in every "fantasy fight" he is in. Obviously he had other worldly athleticism, but he can't hide that glass forever.

Obviously H2H is all speculation and pretty pointless etc, and I can see how you could argue that RJJ is the H2h GOAT, but I don't feel comfortable with them claims.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Chacal Roy didn't have a shocking chin at his very best and was too hard to tag clean consistently anyway. His training regimen was very old school from what I know, although clearly he fucked around with substances as he progressed.

And are the guys you mentioned the best guys he faced at middle? Tate gave Julian Jackson a torrid 12 rounds and Jones iced him like he was a journeyman. Beat Hopkins with one hand, a still learning but clearly world class fighter.

As for the 'roids, I agree. But Roy was a big middle and H2H, looked untouchable.

One of the very best I've ever seen on film. Thanks for the response :good


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

I somewhat agree that Robinson was overrated, if we compare him to say, God for instance.

But if we compare him with any other boxer, he is rightly considered one of the greatest fighters that ever lived. 2nd on my list only to Greb, Ray's performance against LaMotta was probably the best I've ever seen ( cue @Flea Man to direct me to a south Korean light flyweight area title fight :yep )

As much as it pains me, he would have knocked Hearns out. It would I've been an awesome fight while it lasted, with Tommy trying to keep it at range ala Leonard, but he wouldn't have held Robinson off as long as he did Leonard. No chance


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> @Chacal Roy didn't have a shocking chin at his very best and was too hard to tag clean consistently anyway. His training regimen was very old school from what I know, although clearly he fucked around with substances as he progressed.
> 
> And are the guys you mentioned the best guys he faced at middle? Tate gave Julian Jackson a torrid 12 rounds and Jones iced him like he was a journeyman. Beat Hopkins with one hand, a still learning but clearly world class fighter.
> 
> ...


Your gonna absolutely cane me for saying this, but I think Calzaghe would have beaten him at 168

Go easy on me, we're friends


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Vano-irons :rofl At Korean area reference :good

And nah, not IMO re: Jones-Calzaghe. Nothing we haven't discussed before. Not area title though and there's a Jap' involved: Chang Vs Tokashiki for me :thumbsup

And I 'take it easy' on everyone unless they're being a dick about it


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

No Martinez is nowhere near SRR in any way, I just said he would beat Basilio, and that SRR would have fought better on the outside than inside, not that he cant fight on the inside, he also had the flu when he fought Basilio. SRR is clearly a top fighter one of the best ever but what makes him goat why is he praised so holy, I understand this is the opinion of many, but I'm so sure many people just jump on the boat and dont really give it any thought, what makes him better than SRL or Hearns other than having a better chin than Hearns?


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

BUMPY KNUCKLES said:


> No Martinez is nowhere near SRR in any way, I just said he would beat Basilio, and that SRR would have fought better on the outside than inside, not that he cant fight on the inside, he also had the flu when he fought Basilio. SRR is clearly a top fighter one of the best ever but what makes him goat why is he praised so holy, I understand this is the opinion of many, but I'm so sure many people just jump on the boat and dont really give it any thought, what makes him better than SRL or Hearns other than having a better chin than Hearns?


He put his punches together better than both, he was more relentless than both. Basically, the man was so fucking cool his bed made itself in the morning. The fact that we only have footage of him past prime at a higher weight and still he looks unbelievable speaks volumes.

Also, Duran looks better than Leonard or Hearns :good Roberto is possibly the greatest fighter we have substantial footage of


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

BUMPY KNUCKLES said:


> No Martinez is nowhere near SRR in any way, I just said he would beat Basilio, and that SRR would have fought better on the outside than inside, not that he cant fight on the inside, he also had the flu when he fought Basilio. SRR is clearly a top fighter one of the best ever but what makes him goat why is he praised so holy, I understand this is the opinion of many, but I'm so sure many people just jump on the boat and dont really give it any thought, what makes him better than SRL or Hearns other than having a better chin than Hearns?


I felt Basilio won the Rematch.

He was a better short puncher than Hearns. And I agree on a few things; there's not much between the very best fighters that ever lived. Robinson's ring record far outweighs Leonard and Tommy's though.

And no, I don't think Robinson is the GOAT either.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Ray Leonard waited to find adjustments when forced off his gameplan and sometimes he suffered (Duran I) Robbo' would've just stepped to Duran and Hearns and got the job done earlier IMO.


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

Was Lamotta at middleweight a tougher challenge for SRR than Duran would have been at welterweight?


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

BUMPY KNUCKLES said:


> Was Lamotta at middleweight a tougher challenge for SRR than Duran would have been at welterweight?


Its not comparable in size because Duran was the one stepping up and the naturally smaller guy. That said Duran was a better boxer than LaMotta but again Duran won the most meaningful fight out of the trilogy, not that it was Leonards fault than Duran quit but it sort of puts a dampener on that fight and the third was a joke.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

BUMPY KNUCKLES said:


> Was Lamotta at middleweight a tougher challenge for SRR than Duran would have been at welterweight?


Not comparable.


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

BUMPY KNUCKLES said:


> Was Lamotta at middleweight a tougher challenge for SRR than Duran would have been at welterweight?


Duran was in a different league completely, and had been at welter for a few years before Leonard anyway. In comparison, LaMotta was a beast at the weight. I read he had to come down from 190-200lbs to fight at 160 which is crazy.

Robinson beat him to a pulp, Duran beat Leonard clearly first time around


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Vano-irons said:


> Duran was in a different league completely, and had been at welter for a few years before Leonard anyway. In comparison, LaMotta was a beast at the weight. I read he had to come down from 190-200lbs to fight at 160 which is crazy.
> 
> Robinson beat him to a pulp, Duran beat Leonard clearly first time around


Yeah, first fight Ray was a welter and Lamotta a natural light heavy boiling down to 160 (with great difficulty, no surprise with same day weigh in's)


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Ray dragged Donny Lalonde (of all people) down to 168! 

Robbo fought Maxim at light heavy. A guy that regularly fought as a heavyweight.


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

Lamotta was that big? From what I've seen of him theres no way he blew up to 200lbs surely not he doesnt even look like a huge middleweight to me.


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Ray dragged Donny Lalonde (of all people) down to 168!
> 
> Robbo fought Maxim at light heavy. A guy that regularly fought as a heavyweight.


And won every round against him, bar 1 IIRC

In comparison, like you said, Leonard won a light heavyweight title when both fighters weighed 168


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

BUMPY KNUCKLES said:


> Lamotta was that big? From what I've seen of him theres no way he blew up to 200lbs surely not he doesnt even look like a huge middleweight to me.


I'm thinking more 180 or so. And today's 'middleweights' have the benefit of well over a days rehydration so by todays standards he be normal sized...but would he cut to 154 with an extra day? 

I kid, I kid. But yeah, Lamotta was a monster at the weight. Imagine him in with Canelo Alvarez or Miguel Cotto, who would be (at least) middleweights in Jake's era.


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

BUMPY KNUCKLES said:


> Lamotta was that big? From what I've seen of him theres no way he blew up to 200lbs surely not he doesnt even look like a huge middleweight to me.


LaMotta himself said it on a sky sports show about Ray Robinson. He said he almost died making the weight for the fight he was stopped in. He then almost died in the ring after Robbo battered him. Beautiful to watch, but horrible to watch all at the same time


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

So by todays standard Lamotta would have been built more like a AA 160lber yes?


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

BUMPY KNUCKLES said:


> So by todays standard Lamotta would have been built more like a AA 160lber yes?


I'd guess that he'd probably fight at 154 with the 36 hour weigh ins. But yeah, a small, compact fighter at the weight


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

By Lamotta's standards Abraham might've been a light heavyweight journeyman with massive power and no I'm not using 'journeyman' in a derogatory manner.


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

Chavez Jr for instance would have probably been a light heavyweight, or even a HW (without the CW division).

Sick I know


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man, I know you do know boxing and I was half winding you up earlier, although I do still feel you are to *pro* old time fighters and seem to slate practically every fighter 90s and beyond.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> @Chacal Roy didn't have a shocking chin at his very best and was too hard to tag clean consistently anyway. His training regimen was very old school from what I know, although clearly he fucked around with substances as he progressed.
> 
> *We don't know that he didn't have a shocking chin at his best as he was rarely hit flush. What we do know is that as he aged and his reflexes slowed down, his chin got tested. And when that test came, it failed. I can see what you're saying, but I do believe that he was hiding a glass jaw all those years.*
> 
> ...


My responses in bold and underlined. I hope I'm coming across as reasonable, I don't have an agenda or bias in favor of any fighter as I try not to have a favorite (maybe other than Rigondeaux) as it just leads to false and clouded opinions that people don't take seriously.


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Jones did not have a glass jaw imo. I think its a combination of age and weight loss is what brought his chin down to the level it was. It would be wrong for anyone to say that Jones was *never* hit with a good shot throughout his career, he was just never hit consistently with a lot of shots. I mean look at the John Ruiz fight, now Rioz was never a big puncher but he packed a fair whollop, certainly enough to knock down an iron chinned warrior like Holyfield. Ruiz caught Jones with some flush right hands, that are showed clearly in the replays after the round, and Jones took them. If Jones chin was a shit as they said it was then surely he would have been out cold from a from a Ruiz jab :lol:


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

Sportofkings said:


> Jones did not have a glass jaw imo. I think its a combination of age and weight loss is what brought his chin down to the level it was. It would be wrong for anyone to say that Jones was *never* hit with a good shot throughout his career, he was just never hit consistently with a lot of shots. I mean look at the John Ruiz fight, now Rioz was never a big puncher but he packed a fair whollop, certainly enough to knock down an iron chinned warrior like Holyfield. Ruiz caught Jones with some flush right hands, that are showed clearly in the replays after the round, and Jones took them. If Jones chin was a shit as they said it was then surely he would have been out cold from a from a Ruiz jab :lol:


Yh true this.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Chacal Tate gave Jackson real trouble.

If Jones was indeed hiding a 'glass jaw' then which great middleweight has the timing and accuracy to put him out?

And yes, very reasonable and enjoying your correspondence.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Sportofkings Lou Van whatever his name was caught Roy and dropped him pre-Ruiz but he recovered quickly.


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> @Sportofkings Lou Van whatever his name was caught Roy and dropped him pre-Ruiz but he recovered quickly.


Lou Del Valle it was Flea that put him down in 98. Roy got up more pissed than anything else after it:yep

Half looked like a slip to me anyways


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> @Chacal Tate gave Jackson real trouble.
> 
> If Jones was indeed hiding a 'glass jaw' then which great middleweight has the timing and accuracy to put him out?
> 
> And yes, very reasonable and enjoying your correspondence.


I'll look for the fight.

Not sure it'd be all about the timing and power. Pressure and smart boxing could also beat him. I'm not going to lie, I'm 16 years old, I don't have a lot of knowledge about the old time boxers YET. I've seen several people argue that Jake Lamotta's pressure would cause him problems. From what I've seen, Jones' speed would win him that fight. I've seen a lot of people say Hagler would put Jones out as Jones struggled with southpaws (Del Valle dropped him, Tarver bet him 2/3, Calzaghe dominated). That combined with Haglers smart southpaw jab, right hooks and pressure would be enough to beat him. And then of course I need to say that any fighter with power would have a chance to land on his chin, just like I'd say that about Tommy Hearns if we were discussing him. Obviously you can't predict a freak KO, but it is something that needs to be mentioned when considering Jones in a H2H situation. And I'm just going to put the point out there for when people say you can't outpoint Jones. Montell Griffen was ahead on the scorecards at the time of the DQ.



Flea Man said:


> @Sportofkings Lou Van whatever his name was caught Roy and dropped him pre-Ruiz but he recovered quickly.


^


----------



## ScouseLeader (May 31, 2012)

It was the weight loss, Roy got caught clean in his prime, it's a complete myth that he didn't and I think you people are forgetting what a 'glass jaw' is.

You don't beat Hopkins, Toney and Hill with a glass jaw, I'm afraid.


----------



## Wiirdo (May 31, 2012)

Sportofkings said:


> Lou Del Valle it was Flea that put him down in 98. Roy got up more pissed than anything else after it:yep
> 
> Half looked like a slip to me anyways


Yeah wasn't rocked at all. Still a legit knockdown IMO. It wasn't a Hagler-Roldan KD.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Sportofkings said:


> Lou Del Valle it was Flea that put him down in 98. Roy got up more pissed than anything else after it:yep
> 
> Half looked like a slip to me anyways


What I see there is Jones being hit on the temple by a punch and dropping to the canvas, standing up with slightly shaky legs (as seen in the way he backs into the ropes and corner), walking out and holding for the next 30 seconds!


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Wiirdo said:


> Yeah wasn't rocked at all. Still a legit knockdown IMO. It wasn't a Hagler-Roldan KD.


So why did he hold on till the end of the round?


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Can you move this to another thread or something, Flea..? :conf


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Chacal said:


> What I see there is Jones being hit on the temple by a punch and dropping to the canvas, standing up with slightly shaky legs (as seen in the way he backs into the ropes and corner), walking out and holding for the next 30 seconds!


Didn't think it was quite that severe mate, you could be right though, maybe Jones is a glassed jaw fraud i suppose :conf:good


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Sportofkings said:


> Didn't think it was quite that severe mate, you could be right though, maybe Jones is a glassed jaw fraud i suppose :conf:good


I'm not calling him a fraud, although I did love chin trolling on esb and did it a lot about mike jones and khan, but he did hold on from the KD till the end of the round. He was not recovered.


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

Toney and Hopkins are some accomplishment, who could get to Jones at middleweight? I dont think anyone can win a boxing match with him you need a pressure fighter with power perhaps someone with JJ power, JJ would get stopped in the first half of the fight though so rule him out.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

BUMPY KNUCKLES said:


> Flea Man, I know you do know boxing and I was half winding you up earlier, although I do still feel you are to *pro* old time fighters and seem to slate practically every fighter 90s and beyond.


Thank you and I'm always the first to admit I don't actually know that much!!!! I have SHIT LOADS to learn.

But trust me, I am not biased to the older guys mate. I wouldn't waste my own time favouring them, I just go with what I see and read.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Wallet said:


> Can you move this to another thread or something, Flea..? :conf


How is this _my_ fault?! :conf


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Wallet said:


> Can you move this to another thread or something, Flea..? :conf


How is this _my_ fault?! :conf


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

As for pressure fighting against Roy it's nigh on impossible. His feet were too quick and anyone walking into him is tasting bigger shots than they can bring to the table.

Roy was just as good at catching/parrying shots when he needed to. This guy wasn't up to much (although undefeated) and Roy let him punch himself out. He then gave the referee a chance to save the guy before hurting him badly just to show he could. Levels above or not, you have to be a pretty special fighter to take the piss like this even against fringe opposition.






Hagler would be the best bet for me as well. Dick Tiger could be outmanouvered.


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Chacal said:


> I'm not calling him a fraud, although I did love chin trolling on esb and did it a lot about mike jones and khan, but he did hold on from the KD till the end of the round. He was not recovered.


Fair enough, I do see your point on the knockdown now that I watch it again, I remember the first time I watched it years, there was water int the ring, and I thought that it could have caused the knockdown. Roy did hold on a bit but seemed sound enough as he got up. Still doesn't make a good case for calling Jones's chin glass, the fact remains that he wasn't knocked out till he was in his mid 30's andoy has taken some shots though after going a big weight loss. Even considering the Del Valle KD, Roy has taken shots through his career, and even stood up to a few heavyweight punches. I would argue till I was blue in the face that Roy's chin wasn't half as bad as made out :good


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

People forget that he beat Tarver first time as well. Close as Hell, but he still had enough in him to not get destroyed that time.

How do people see Sergio's hands down, reflexive based southpaw style faring against Jones? And how do we see Chavez's pressure fighting against a prime Jones? Happy now @Wallet Spector?


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Hagler could prove a challenge but he had a tough time with Leonard's movement and didn't close him down quick enough, maybes that wasn't the best version of Marvin but you you can get an idea of how that bout may go using that.

I'm thinking someone who can drag him into the trenches - McClellan, Benn maybes - make a fight out of it although I'm not favouring either of those over him neither


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> As for pressure fighting against Roy it's nigh on impossible. His feet were too quick and anyone walking into him is tasting bigger shots than they can bring to the table.
> 
> Roy was just as good at catching/parrying shots when he needed to. This guy wasn't up to much (although undefeated) and Roy let him punch himself out. He then gave the referee a chance to save the guy before hurting him badly just to show he could. Levels above or not, you have to be a pretty special fighter to take the piss like this even against fringe opposition.
> 
> ...


Yes, I've seen that video, Brannon looks so much like Tim Bradley. But he's nothing special and didn't apply smart pressure. I do think that someone with consistent body work to slow Jones down, relentless intelligent pressure and the chin to take everything Jones throws and keep firing back, like Lamotta, would STAND A CHANCE. (I am not saying Lamotta would beat him. I think the speed difference would be too vast, but I wouldn't count him out.)



Sportofkings said:


> Fair enough, I do see your point on the knockdown now that I watch it again, I remember the first time I watched it years, there was water int the ring, and I thought that it could have caused the knockdown. Roy did hold on a bit but seemed sound enough as he got up. Still doesn't make a good case for calling Jones's chin glass, the fact remains that he wasn't knocked out till he was in his mid 30's andoy has taken some shots though after going a big weight loss. Even considering the Del Valle KD, Roy has taken shots through his career, and even stood up to a few heavyweight punches. I would argue till I was blue in the face that Roy's chin wasn't half as bad as made out :good


At least you see what I'm saying now, he held on till the end of the round and his guard and knees buckled when he went down. And Del Valle wasn't some monstrous puncher. It's clear that you are a fan of Jones, and I respect your defending him, but c'mon. He obviously never had that good a chin. Maybe it wasn't AS bad in his prime, age must have worsened it a bit, but Iron Chinned Warriors don't suddenly start getting sparked by Glen Johnson over night.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Chacal said:


> I'll look for the fight.
> 
> Not sure it'd be all about the timing and power. Pressure and smart boxing could also beat him. I'm not going to lie, I'm 16 years old, I don't have a lot of knowledge about the old time boxers YET. I've seen several people argue that Jake Lamotta's pressure would cause him problems. From what I've seen, Jones' speed would win him that fight. I've seen a lot of people say Hagler would put Jones out as Jones struggled with southpaws (Del Valle dropped him, Tarver bet him 2/3, Calzaghe dominated). That combined with Haglers smart southpaw jab, right hooks and pressure would be enough to beat him. And then of course I need to say that any fighter with power would have a chance to land on his chin, just like I'd say that about Tommy Hearns if we were discussing him. Obviously you can't predict a freak KO, but it is something that needs to be mentioned when considering Jones in a H2H situation. And I'm just going to put the point out there for when people say you can't outpoint Jones. Montell Griffen was ahead on the scorecards at the time of the DQ.
> 
> ^


I will say that Griffin didn't outpoint Jones. He got sparked. So yeah, I'll agree that you might be able to get ahead of Jones on the cards.

Also, Griffin was a very good fighter.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> People forget that he beat Tarver first time as well. Close as Hell, but he still had enough in him to not get destroyed that time.
> 
> How do people see Sergio's hands down, reflexive based southpaw style faring against Jones? And how do we see Chavez's pressure fighting against a prime Jones? Happy now @Wallet Spector?


Chavez walks into Jones' fast punches and gets KO'd with ease. Martinez would get caught with shots from the faster Jones while trying to show off his reflexes, Jones beats him either by late stoppage and wide UD. But either man could always land a freak punch to put his lights out. :deal



chatty said:


> Hagler could prove a challenge but he had a tough time with Leonard's movement and didn't close him down quick enough, maybes that wasn't the best version of Marvin but you you can get an idea of how that bout may go using that.
> 
> I'm thinking someone who can drag him into the trenches - McClellan, Benn maybes - make a fight out of it although I'm not favouring either of those over him neither


Both men could stand a chance and could both land the one punch needed, but Jones would most likely dominate them both.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> I will say that Griffin didn't outpoint Jones. He got sparked. So yeah, I'll agree that you might be able to get ahead of Jones on the cards.
> 
> Also, Griffin was a very good fighter.


Griffin was outpointing him till the DQ. But Jones was amazing in the rematch.


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Chacal said:


> Yes, I've seen that video, Brannon looks so much like Tim Bradley. But he's nothing special and didn't apply smart pressure. I do think that someone with consistent body work to slow Jones down, relentless intelligent pressure and the chin to take everything Jones throws and keep firing back, like Lamotta, would STAND A CHANCE. (I am not saying Lamotta would beat him. I think the speed difference would be too vast, but I wouldn't count him out.)
> 
> At least you see what I'm saying now, he held on till the end of the round and his guard and knees buckled when he went down. And Del Valle wasn't some monstrous puncher. It's clear that you are a fan of Jones, and I respect your defending him, but c'mon. He obviously never had that good a chin. Maybe it wasn't AS bad in his prime, age must have worsened it a bit, but Iron Chinned Warriors don't suddenly start getting sparked by Glen Johnson over night.


Never said his chin was iron, but it wasn't glass either imo, and that whole 'his chin was exposed when his reflexes went' theory just doesnt cut it for me either. Whatever, we'll agree to disagree anyways.


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> How is this _my_ fault?! :conf


Never said it was.

Just you're a mod, and I was hoping you could move the posts to a different thread.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Sportofkings said:


> Never said his chin was iron, but it wasn't glass either imo, and that whole 'his chin was exposed when his reflexes went' theory just doesnt cut it for me either. Whatever, we'll agree to disagree anyways.


:good :good

Thanks for a civil discussion lads, you don't get this kind of shit on ESB.


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

On the first Jones-Griffin, Griffin's awkwardness cause Roy problems early on in in their first fight, but Roy started to figure him out as time went by, I had it dead even by the time it came to the 9th round, but it wouldn't have ended any other way than a Jones knockout anyways, and I do think the DQ was harsh.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Chacal said:


> Yes, I've seen that video, Brannon looks so much like Tim Bradley. But he's nothing special and didn't apply smart pressure. I do think that someone with consistent body work to slow Jones down, relentless intelligent pressure and the chin to take everything Jones throws and keep firing back, like Lamotta, would STAND A CHANCE. (I am not saying Lamotta would beat him. I think the speed difference would be too vast, but I wouldn't count him out.)
> 
> At least you see what I'm saying now, he held on till the end of the round and his guard and knees buckled when he went down. And Del Valle wasn't some monstrous puncher. It's clear that you are a fan of Jones, and I respect your defending him, but c'mon. He obviously never had that good a chin. Maybe it wasn't AS bad in his prime, age must have worsened it a bit, but Iron Chinned Warriors don't suddenly start getting sparked by Glen Johnson over night.


There's a massive difference between dentable and pure glass. Jones was not Rene Arredondo or Amir Khan level of chin. And as I say, pretty redundant when you consider he was hard to tag clean.

Chartchai Chionoi took bombs from all sorts of monsters, but it was the light hitting Erbito Salavarria that starched him inside a round.

Archie Moore was sparked numerous times in his career, from middleweight to heavyweight.

My point is that the Del Valle knockdown and Jones' post Ruiz performances are not indictative of him at his very best. Most would disagree and say light heavyweight was his best division but that's when his level of opposition was largely piss poor and he started clowning in fights and coasting against no hopers, which I'm not a fan of at all. At middleweight, assuming he can make it safely with same day weigh in's, he'd beat all the greats IMO.

For the rare occasions at his best you can see him troubled you can find moments in the careers of Hagler, Monzon, any great middleweight, where they were briefly stifled by a lesser fighter than Roy Jones. Fact is he was among the P4P best for a decade, and has good scalps from middleweight to heavyweight. That's some old timer shit right there.

I do not rank Roy Jones in my top 40 boxers of all time. That is a totally different question to H2H hypothetical (largely waste of time) discussions. The only thing they're good for is to spur on discussion so fact and opinion can be shared, tangents explored and vitriol spewed  :good


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I dont think having an iron chion tells the whole story though, sometimes willpower can drag a man through - just look at Tyson, he was always able to take alot of punichment and even in his KO's to Douglas, Holy, lewis he took a fair bit of whacking before he succumbed yet against Williams and McBride he didn't have the will to fight on. I dont think his chin let him down but more his brain.

Obviously Jones is a lot different and he got well chinned off Tarver yet i dont think he was the same after, it was probably on his mind every time he boxed.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Chacal said:


> Chavez walks into Jones' fast punches and gets KO'd with ease. Martinez would get caught with shots from the faster Jones while trying to show off his reflexes, Jones beats him either by late stoppage and wide UD. *But either man could always land a freak punch to put his lights out.* :deal
> 
> Both men could stand a chance and could both land the one punch needed, but Jones would most likely dominate them both.


I tend not to explore that avenue as it's true of every single fighter that ever lived, even the greatest chins and defensive stylists in history.





















It wouldn't need to be a 'lucky shot' or a Hail Mary either. Any top class middleweight could feasibly outpoint Jones on any given night.

But in a hypothetical discussion of both men at their bests=Jones all the way, if I was betting. 
@Wallet This tangent will fizzle out as soon as something else noteworthy crops up in the build up I'm sure. And you know me, probably not the best person to ask in terms of recognising this sorta' thing as an issue


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> People forget that he beat Tarver first time as well. Close as Hell, but he still had enough in him to not get destroyed that time.
> 
> How do people see Sergio's hands down, reflexive based southpaw style faring against Jones? And how do we see Chavez's pressure fighting against a prime Jones? Happy now @Wallet Spector?


Sergs hands down athleticish style is all very well against slower compepetion, Roy could fight like that only 10 times faster and throw proper combinations, this means Sergio gets caught from the off and probably gets TKO'd anytime in the second hald of the fight. Chavez would walk onto shots and it could really end at any point, both easyish wins for Roy I reckon.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Regarding the Ruiz fight, I think Jones gets more plaudits than he deserves for this fight. Sure it earned him an ABC belt but I don't consider him a real HW champion as Ruiz was as poor a champ as your going to see, slow, not much pop, overrated at the time because he beat and drew with a ageing well past his best Holy.

i would be guessing lewis, Wlad and even Byrd would have laid waste to him had he challenged another belt holder although Wlad was prone topoor chin syndrome at that time


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> There's a massive difference between dentable and pure glass. Jones was not Rene Arredondo or Amir Khan level of chin. And as I say, pretty redundant when you consider he was hard to tag clean.
> 
> Chartchai Chionoi took bombs from all sorts of monsters, but it was the light hitting Erbito Salavarria that starched him inside a round.
> 
> ...


I get everything you are saying. My main reason for not feeling comfortable with it was the PEDS!


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

chatty said:


> Regarding the Ruiz fight, I think Jones gets more plaudits than he deserves for this fight. Sure it earned him an ABC belt but I don't consider him a real HW champion as Ruiz was as poor a champ as your going to see, slow, not much pop, overrated at the time because he beat and drew with a ageing well past his best Holy.
> 
> i would be guessing lewis, Wlad and even Byrd would have laid waste to him had he challenged another belt holder although Wlad was prone topoor chin syndrome at that time


Just a win over a decent heavyweight contender IMO. An inferior ledger against bigger men than Harold Johnson, Jimmy Bivins, Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles etc etc


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)




----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

First 24/7 I have enjoyed in quite a while. Didn't know Jnr had to send his dad to rehab and he comes across really well in this. Martinez seems to have some neglection issues.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Brilliant episode IMO.

Is it just me or does the Ariza thing reek of Roach not liking his, ahem, _supplements_ and Jr. liking 'em? :think

Freddie sounds really bad compared to even two years ago, it's sad to see.

Martinez is just an athletic specimen and if he does walk around at light heavy or so it's clear to see he still has a fair bit of training to do to get into tip top shape and he's pretty much a 'natural' middleweight. However, he is the athletic specimen you think he'd be, who has gravitated towards boxing. I like his all round mix of training tactics, all fine tuning his mind and body.

Chavez Jr is still way too erratic. Training at 02:00 am and in his front room? He is taking this seriously but he obviously lives and trains at his own pace. Never an encouraging trait in a fighter. But he's so big, it creates extra intrigue that wouldn't be there if he had the same skillset but was 20lbs lighter.

Really hope Floyd takes on Canelo in December and then Floyd Vs Sergio next May. That is the super fight I really wanna' see now, Pacquiao and Floyd are on separate paths now IMO.

Would love to see Mayweather take on the challenge I think he'd handle Martinez.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

For me the longer Sergio stays at middleweight the less likely the fight will be. I don't see Floyd moving up anymore at his age and Martinez has been a 160 boxer for 3 years now and whilst he isn't a huge middleweight I feel the extra few pounds he would cut at this stage of his career could cause him a massive disadvantage.

Personally I'd rather Martinez focus on cleaning up the middleweights than Floyd and if Floyd wants to make the jump then fine.

I agree with the Roach comment as well, I remember in the build up to the Bradley and Garcia fights I thought he looked and sounded a lot worse than he has the previous year (six months prior) and if we can notice it then surely his boxers can, considering they work with him intensely (some of them anyway) 2-3 times a year. This is a big fight for Roach as well considering his elite boxers are on a massive losing run: 

Pacquaio (Bradley, Marquez in reverse robbery's) and khan (Peterson and Garcia) and have looked to have regressed somewhat - lower stamina, lower output, technically exposed somewhat and although this can be contributed by opponents and other factors you still have to look at Roach's parkinsons as an effective factor at somepoint.

The next few months will be a big factor in Roach's career as Pacquaio looks likely to fight Marquez and we have markers to see how he performs against a constant foe, Chavez making his big elite fight breakthrough, Matiroysan stepping up to the plate against Lara and possibly Khan looking to resurrect his career (probablys a soft one).


----------



## Twelvey (Jun 6, 2012)

chatty said:


>


Cheers, good episode that. I think Chavez is going to get busted up quite badly in this. Snr jumping in and stopping the fight would be the biggest EVT win ever. 
Also I know it's only for the camera and unlikely to be an accurate measuring stick but JCC jnr always looks poor on the pads.


----------



## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

Not long now. I hope Martinez annihilates him.


----------



## Miguel2010 (Jun 5, 2012)

Sergio is gonna smack the shit out of Chavez!

Get on the K.O/T.K.O


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Seen that little clip of Julio when he was making his pro debut, jesus he was skinny! Just goes to show how much maturation and hard work in the gym has changed his body to what it is now.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Heres one of two of Chavez's amateur fights. Both were against Jorge Paez Jnr in exhibition like bouts:


----------



## Hook! (Jun 8, 2012)

so excited


----------



## ...HandsOfStone... (Jun 9, 2012)

OK, first post on this forum.  Here's my take on what should be an incredible evening of boxing

12 months ago no one was giving Jr much of a chance here. However he has shown some improvments in his work and an ability to walk down, walk through and wear fringe level opponents down, largely down to his size (weight) advantage on fight night.

Martinez is a supreme athlete who uses lateral movement, circling opponents, fighting off the back foot and drawing them onto that backhand left and loping right. What his last two fights against Macklin and Barker has shown us is that a figher who refuses to chase Martinez around the ring and attempt to control him with the jab can have success and a possible blueprint for an eleite fighter to follow. Someone like Mayweather, or even perhaps Canelo could inplement such a gameplan however Jr certainly can't. I think Jr's come forward style will play right into Martinez's hands who'll circle and draw him onto the big shots.

Sure Chavez has shown a solid chin but I'd be amazed if he can walk through what Martinez throws at him.

Martinez to bust Chavez up and stop him mid fight.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@...HandsOfStone... Are you who I think you are? :good


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Dan Rafael ‏@danrafaelespn
Arum now speaking. Says there are less than 900 tix left for Martinez-Chavez, all upper bowl. Closed circuit sales now being opened. #boxing

Article Link - http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&opt=printable&id=56770#ixzz25gNYwhLX
This is a legal waiver. By copying and using the material from this article, you agree to give full credit to BoxingScene.com or provide a link to the original article.

Sergio Martinez (49-2-2, 28KOs) is counting down the days until his challenge of WBC middleweight champion Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. (46-0-1, 32KOs), which takes place on September 15th at the Thomas & Mack Center in Las Vegas. In his latest fight blog, Martinez explains some the slow starts in some of his recent fights.

If you could have one fight back to do over, which one would it be and why? In your past couple of fights, you finished very strong but seemed to start slow or require some adjustments. Did you misjudge your opponents, or are there other explanations?

"The one fight I would do over is the Antonio Margarito fight which happened February 19th 2000 at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas. I was knocked out in the seventh round and that is the only fight I truly believe I lost. I was also a puppy compared to what I am today and Margarito was a seasoned fighter at that point. For that particular loss my purse was $800 US. I did not come to my own as a fighter and did not have my trainers Gabriel Sarmiento and Pablo Sarmiento with me so I was a different fighter at that point in my career. I believe if Antonio Margarito and I fought again later on in my career, it would've been a different outcome. In my mind it would be similar to the Pacquiao-Magarito match where Margarito just came forward and the speed of Pacquaio is what ultimately beat Margarito.

"In the Barker fight I hurt my left elbow in training camp 4 days before the fight so for that particular fight I was fighting one handed the whole fight. If you look at the tape of the fight you will see that I mostly threw punches with one arm. I believe if I did not sustain that injury right before the fight the knockout would've came a lot earlier.

"In the Matthew Macklin fight, I expected Macklin to come forward like he has done in the past and we trained for that. But in this particular fight Macklin came in with a different game plan and he started to box which is was different then what we planned but we adjusted to his fight plan and then started to wear him down slowly until the knockout late in the fight."


----------



## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

Just watched the Face Off. Best by far imo.


----------



## Meast (Jun 3, 2012)

Flash Jab said:


> Just watched the Face Off. Best by far imo.


Same, good stuff!


----------



## Back to Bill (Jun 5, 2012)

I still have this awful feeling that unless Sergio stops Chavez jr, he's going to get robbed?


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Bill said:


> I still have this awful feeling that unless Sergio stops Chavez jr, he's going to get robbed?


Ye i get that feeling, and I don't think he stops jcc jr so he's going to have to make it clear


----------



## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

I remain unconvinced about Jr's chin. Sure he can take a shot, but he's never stopped a top-level opponent and he's never been hit by a top-level opponent. He's in for some serious punishment against Sergio.


----------



## Twelvey (Jun 6, 2012)

dftaylor said:


> I remain unconvinced about Jr's chin. Sure he can take a shot, but he's never stopped a top-level opponent and he's never been hit by a top-level opponent. He's in for some serious punishment against Sergio.


I agree with this. Rubio has a good dig but he doesn't hit with the speed Sergio has and from the angles Sergio is going to bring.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I sort of agree, I don't think there is evidence there that Chavez has a granite jaw as he hasn't fought an elite boxer yet or a massive puncher but so far he has held his chin well and it looks sturdy. We'll not know for sure until Martinez starts to land on it though, much about Chavez is unknown at this point. The answers will come next week though.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

This is definitely a Martinez thread. Something tells me he's gonna have to pull this one out his behind. Both guys have to be disicplined in this fight. Neither can just show up and win...


----------



## Twelvey (Jun 6, 2012)

Jnr hasn't got the mindset of a champion imo.


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

:err


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

He certainly is rather large, I think his Saturday Night Fever hair-do makes him look like he's got an extra inch on Serg'.


----------



## Back to Bill (Jun 5, 2012)

Wallet said:


> :err


Jesus Christ, Chavez's head is the same size as Andre the giants, looks like him as well.


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

You worried for your boy @Wallet? I think Serg' will come through a tough night the victor, but I think that people are rightfully concerned that Serg' will get robbed. He's notoriously been on the wrong side of the judges and he's up against one of the most built up and protected fighters there is, the WBC are all about Jr.


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Bryn said:


> You worried for your boy @Wallet? I think Serg' will come through a tough night the victor, but I think that people are rightfully concerned that Serg' will get robbed. He's notoriously been on the wrong side of the judges and he's up against one of the most built up and protected fighters there is, the WBC are all about Jr.


A bit, yeah. Although less so after seeing some of the footage of Chavez training.

He can't allow it to go to the cards. I really can't see him getting a decision. He needs to box smart, wear Chavez down and take him out in the late rounds for me.

Rigondeaux's fight is back on btw.


----------



## Barlivia (Jun 8, 2012)

Only 1 winner of this fight if preparations are anything to go on!


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Chavez is going to come into the ring huge.

Hopefully Martinez is smart and boxes him early and wears him down because going to war could see anything happen.

I've got a feeling this is going to be a good fight though. I think chavez will turn up and earn some respect even if he does lose.


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

chatty said:


> I've got a feeling this is going to be a good fight though.* I think chavez will turn up and earn some respect even if he does lose.*


I'm expecting a decent fight too, I think it's got all the makings of one. I think you're spot on with the bold bit too, this is an opportunity for Jr to really win over alot of the doubters. Granted, there are a fair few less doubters than there were 18 months ago, but this is a prime opportunity to really show us what he is capable of against a top pound-for-pounder. Win or lose.


----------



## Lilo (Jun 4, 2012)

I'm telling you this is Haye/Chisora all over again.

Martinez is superior in speed, power, experience and 'levels' just like Haye was. Chavez's asset is his chin (and size/weight) just like Chisora's was. I'll ask the same question I asked then, *How exactly is Chavez (Chisora) going to win?* Will he stop Martinez? Something Paul Williams, Kelly Pavlik, an undefeated LMW champion, and two Euro champions couldn't get close to. Will he outpoint Martinez? Well he certainly can't outbox him. So he's going to walk through Sergio's shots and 'outwork' him? :lol: This is what Chisora pickers said! So Chavez has to walk through punches (that have knocked out many top ten fighters) in order to reply with weaker punches? Yeah good luck with that JCC.
:conf

Chavez's best win was a KO over Andy Lee who's best win is McEwan. Sergio has sparked two European champions (who have at worst just as good as Lee) and gets shit for it.


----------



## Wickio (Jun 3, 2012)

Lilo said:


> I'm telling you this is Haye/Chisora all over again.
> 
> Martinez is superior in speed, power, experience and 'levels' just like Haye was. Chavez's asset is his chin (and size/weight) just like Chisora's was. I'll ask the same question I asked then, *How exactly is Chavez (Chisora) going to win?* Will he stop Martinez? Something Paul Williams, Kelly Pavlik, an undefeated LMW champion, and two Euro champions couldn't get close to. Will he outpoint Martinez? Well he certainly can't outbox him. So he's going to walk through Sergio's shots and 'outwork' him? :lol: This is what Chisora pickers said! So Chavez has to walk through punches (that have knocked out many top ten fighters) in order to reply with weaker punches? Yeah good luck with that JCC.
> :conf
> ...


Agree with every word, this fight is Sexy Sergio's for the taking.


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

Lilo said:


> I'm telling you this is Haye/Chisora all over again.
> 
> Martinez is superior in speed, power, experience and 'levels' just like Haye was. Chavez's asset is his chin (and size/weight) just like Chisora's was. I'll ask the same question I asked then, *How exactly is Chavez (Chisora) going to win?* Will he stop Martinez? Something Paul Williams, Kelly Pavlik, an undefeated LMW champion, and two Euro champions couldn't get close to. Will he outpoint Martinez? Well he certainly can't outbox him. So he's going to walk through Sergio's shots and 'outwork' him? :lol: This is what Chisora pickers said! So Chavez has to walk through punches (that have knocked out many top ten fighters) in order to reply with weaker punches? Yeah good luck with that JCC.
> :conf
> ...


:think


----------



## Lilo (Jun 4, 2012)

Bryn said:


> :think


:huh


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

Lilo said:


> :huh


Just that you're making me doubt Jr's chances even more.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Lilo said:


> I'm telling you this is Haye/Chisora all over again.
> 
> Martinez is superior in speed, power, experience and 'levels' just like Haye was. Chavez's asset is his chin (and size/weight) just like Chisora's was. I'll ask the same question I asked then, *How exactly is Chavez (Chisora) going to win?* Will he stop Martinez? Something Paul Williams, Kelly Pavlik, an undefeated LMW champion, and two Euro champions couldn't get close to. Will he outpoint Martinez? Well he certainly can't outbox him. So he's going to walk through Sergio's shots and 'outwork' him? :lol: This is what Chisora pickers said! So Chavez has to walk through punches (that have knocked out many top ten fighters) in order to reply with weaker punches? Yeah good luck with that JCC.
> :conf
> ...


I'm not saying your wrong but there is a few differences. I think most people recognise that Martinez is a favourite and is likely to win but don't want to write Junior off without seeing what he is made of first. Chavez is naturally bigger guy and it is a factor that has to be taken into consideration, if Chavez can take his shots then he has a much better chance of walking him down as Barker and Macklin couldn't.

Also Martinez middleweight resume isn't nothing great as yet. Williams and Dzinzuruk weren't really middleweights and only have two wins at the weight between the pair (Kolle and Winky) whereas Barker and Macklin are unproven at world level. Pavlik was a good win but that was a lot harder bout than it is made out to be and you could argue he was winning until the cut came about.

Martinez also has lulls in fights which is not a good idea against a guy who has a high work rate and throws a lot of punches. The judging is just speculation but Martinesz has been done on this before and Chavez is one of the promoters golden boys so its valid to have it at the back of anyones minds.

That said most of the advantages do go in Martinez favour, he's faster, has better skills and has operated at a much higher level down the weights. he has a decent chin although he has hit the canvas a few times and can bang a bit as well.

I think Chavez has to drag him into a fight whilst not neglecting his defence like Williams did. he also needs to dictate the game and not just follow Martinez around the ring, instead letting Martinez come forward before switching offensively, take advantage of his lulls if he has one again and use his weight if he gets in clinches etc to wear Sergio down.

Like I said in an earlier post its an interesting fight simply because of what we don't know about Chavez, he could get knocked out in the first round and it wouldn't be a massive surprise but he could just go the twelve and give Sergio enough trouble to make it close on the cards.


----------



## Lilo (Jun 4, 2012)

@chatty

To look at Martinez's MW record like that (which I don't believe you do) is utter nitpicking. He KO'd (brutally) 'the most avoided' boxer and beat the lineal champ (cut or no cut). Macklin is proven at world level as his Sturm fight showed.

Re 'Martinez's lulls' - this is true but again, like Haye/Chisora its similar to Haye's 'stamina issues'; getting hit with powerful, deceiving accurate punches will render these lulls irrelevant IMO. He'll be that fucked that he won't be able to do anything should they come around.

There's a chance of a robbery but that's a cynic's view and I try to be positive.

"Chavez can bang" ? Really? Because he stopped Andy Lee? Come on Chatty; Bryan fucking Vera had already stopped him.

You're spot on with the penultimate paragraph but he has never displayed this type of intelligence before in a fight. He's influenced by his father and fights like him too albeit a much poorer version.

For me, the key will be that he'll take so much punishment trying to force it that by the time a lull comes around he'll be on a stretcher or have all the fight beaten out of him. His chin is nowhere near as proven as Chisora's and Martinez probably punches harder than Haye at HW (you know what I mean)


----------



## Lilo (Jun 4, 2012)

Looking at the poll most agree Sergio will win. I'm not saying this is a groundbreaking pick! :lol:

Just the media and a lot of lunatics on ESB see this as a 50/50ish fight a la Haye/Chisora. Its annoying but natural I suppose.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

@Lilo I am nitpicking a bit, I do rate Martinez as the best middleweight and he has a far better record than everyone in the division, I'm just making the point that most guys he has fought have been of similar size so it makes the fight a bit more interesting in that he is effectively fighting a guy naturally two divisions bigger (Martinez a LMW and Chavez a SMW).

I don't think I said Chavez can bang did I, he is more of accumulation puncher, I don't think I've seen him take anyone out with one punch and i think if anyone has a big KO it'll be Martinez.

As I said Martinez is rightly a heavy favourite, I'm just not writing chavez chances off just yet, he has proved a competent challenger (even though officially he is the champ in boxings bullshit eyes) and has beaten a decent line of fringe contenders. he is worthy of his shot and in five days time we will know exactly what level he is capable of win or lose.


----------



## Miguel2010 (Jun 5, 2012)

Read a few bits here an there watched a few vids in build up to this one......I think that Chavez has no chance of getting to the body of Martinez, due to Martinez's quickness and low sideways looking stance and head movement...Chavez will be puzzled by this and then make mistakes himself leaving open gaps for Sergio to pump his left hook into that melon like bonce Jnr has on top of his shoulders.

No way this goes past 8 rounds.

Martinez mid rounds K.O/T.K.O


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

@Bajingo

Can you get a vBookie thread up for this and the other big fights this weekend, please? Can anyone do it, or has it got to be you? I'm sure @DonBoxer has made a few.


----------



## Bajingo (May 31, 2012)

Bryn said:


> @Bajingo
> 
> Can you get a vBookie thread up for this and the other big fights this weekend, please? Can anyone do it, or has it got to be you? I'm sure @DonBoxer has made a few.


Any of the mods can do it, or at least that's what I was told. I'll try and get some threads up today.


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

Cheers dude. :good


----------



## DonBoxer (Jun 6, 2012)

I will get on it asap. Sorry i have been kinda shit for the last month guys. I was down London for a few weeks and my charger broke so had no laptop, got back and had shit for uni to sort out then this last week has been talking to banks every day because some cunts been taking money out of my accounts.

What fights you wanting @Bryn, i will get them done first.


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

DonBoxer said:


> I will get on it asap. Sorry i have been kinda shit for the last month guys. I was down London for a few weeks and my charger broke so had no laptop, got back and had shit for uni to sort out then this last week has been talking to banks every day because some cunts been taking money out of my accounts.
> 
> What fights you wanting @Bryn , i will get them done first.


Cheers dude, I'm just after the Martinez and Alvarez fights. :good


----------



## Shocked Quartz (Jul 24, 2012)

This fight reminds me of the Froch - Abraham build up. The fact is, if Jr didn't have his size and strength then he wouldn't have a pot to piss in here. The fact that Chavez Jr has no jab and plows forward in a straight line means this fight adds up to an easy matador/bull type scenario for Martinez. In the early going all he has to do is throw chopping punches around Jr's guard as he comes in, duck out, then rinse and repeat. When Jr uses head movement, it isn't to react to punches or create a consistently hard target, it's almost like he throws it in there because he's been told it's a good thing to do.

Martinez will probably conserve his energy early on if smart, frustrate and sting before turning up the heat in the middle rounds. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts pushing Chavez Jr back later in the fight and it will be interesting to see how Chavez Jr reacts if this happens after he's been unable to build any momentum. I think if Jr gets in close he could have success but only if Martinez has tired and slowed down significantly, Jr takes quite a long to get shots off on the inside.

Chavez Jr has probably been the beneficiary of a lot of corruption in his career and, if only for that, I hope that he gets cut down to size on Saturday. Martinez wants to do him damage because, IMO, Chavez Jr represents everything he hates, having come up the hard way himself. I think Martinez, whilst very good, is a bit overrated and would fall victim to a rugged fighter who is really on their game. Chavez Jr doesn't have the timing or rhythm to trouble him consistently. 

Beat Chavez Jr and Martinez is really in the big time and he knows it. If he does a spectacular job here, he could get Mayweather at 154 I reckon. Then again, that would probably be the reason he doesn't get that fight. 

On a side point, those ridiculous Chavez training videos and sequences on 24/7 show to me that they are not only trying to lure Martinez into a false sense of security but that they are providing a ready made excuse should he lose, namely that he wasn't preparing properly.


----------



## Gary Barlow (Jun 6, 2012)

Martinez will stop Chavez Jnr, im all over the 3/1 odds.


----------



## Miguel2010 (Jun 5, 2012)

Gary Barlow said:


> Martinez will stop Chavez Jnr, im all over the 3/1 odds.


Good luck mate...Im having a bit of that myself!!!


----------



## scrappylinks (Jun 2, 2012)

Gary Barlow said:


> Martinez will stop Chavez Jnr, im all over the 3/1 odds.


changing my pick to chavez jnr


----------



## ScouseLeader (May 31, 2012)

scrappylinks said:


> changing my pick to chavez jnr


:lol:


----------



## Miguel2010 (Jun 5, 2012)




----------



## Miguel2010 (Jun 5, 2012)




----------



## scrappylinks (Jun 2, 2012)

put mad vcash on sergio by ko


----------



## Lilo (Jun 4, 2012)

Gary Barlow said:


> Martinez will stop Chavez Jnr, im all over the 3/1 odds.


Hmmm despite previous posts I may also be changing my pick... :think

Barlow did you bet on Haye/Chisora?


----------



## Miguel2010 (Jun 5, 2012)

Anyone got a link for final presser from yesterday???


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

He mad.


----------



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)

I love Lou DiBella.


----------



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)

Miguel2010 said:


> Anyone got a link for final presser from yesterday???


----------



## Miguel2010 (Jun 5, 2012)

Thanks mate.....

Yeah, hes fucking pissed right off man!!!

Like this shit...FUCK YEAH!!!!FUCK YEAH!!!!!


----------



## Miguel2010 (Jun 5, 2012)

Ahh man you gotta love Maravilla.......

GEEZER!!!!


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Article Link - http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&opt=printable&id=57084#ixzz26Sqv02Gd
This is a legal waiver. By copying and using the material from this article, you agree to give full credit to BoxingScene.com or provide a link to the original article.

By Rick Reeno

BoxingScene.com has received confirmation that veteran trainer Naazim Richardson will be working the corner of Sergio Martinez on Saturday night at the Thomas & Mack Center in Las Vegas - as Martinez will attempt to capture the WBC middleweight crown from undefeated Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. Martinez is trained by Pablo Sarmiento.

Richardson is best known as the trainer of Bernard Hopkins and Shane Mosley. He is also the man who prevented Felix Trinidad from improperly wrapping his hands before a high-stakes fight with Hopkins in 2001, and Richardson discovered the illegal inserts that were placed in Antonio Margarito's handwraps prior to his fight with Shane Mosley in 2009.

Martinez's longtime adviser, Sampson Lewkowicz, gave a brief explanation on why they brought in Richardson.

"We didn't want to take any chances. We are taking every precaution before this fight. We don't want another Antonio Margarito [incident] to happen. We are taking every measure to ensure that Sergio Martinez receives a fair fight," Lewkowicz told BoxingScene.com.

Richardson will be present when Chavez wraps his hands tomorrow night and he will assist Sarmiento in the corner, says Lewkowicz.


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Richardson has been used as a hired gun by quite a lot by fighters recently. It's great how he's developed this little niche role of Hand wrap checker guy, along with his usual role's as Trainer/Strategist :good


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Weigh in at 11:30pm: http://www.primetimelive.co.uk/news/live-stream-chavez-jr-vs-martinez-weigh-in/#.UFM_yGJ5nK0.twitter


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)




----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Just a matter of times now. The football games will take all day tomorrow...


----------



## Havik (Jun 4, 2012)

Martinez coming out for the weigh in right now. Live stream here: http://www.badlefthook.com/2012/9/1...live-streaming-weigh-in-video-sept-14-6-30-pm


----------



## Havik (Jun 4, 2012)

159lbs for Martinez, looking good.
JCC jr weighs in at 158 with the crowd chanting his name.


----------



## Havik (Jun 4, 2012)

Interviews: Martinez says he wants a war tomorrow. 
Chavez says that Martinez told him he would take his head off during the trash talking after the weigh-in. He made the weight easy because he trained hard. He'll beat Martinez by fighting round per round, boxing.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Chavez looks skinny. But he did make the weight...


----------



## Casual Benson's Unknown (Jun 5, 2012)

What is the likelyhood of the 2 main events clashing tomorrow? Hopefully it doesn't happen, but if it does I think i'm just going to watch the Boxnation card until watching Martinez/Chavez on my Laptop.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Unknown Poster said:


> What is the likelyhood of the 2 main events clashing tomorrow? Hopefully it doesn't happen, but if it does I think i'm just going to watch the Boxnation card until watching Martinez/Chavez on my Laptop.


It could. TV people know how to work that but, they are both coming on at 8 my local time. Canelo/Lopez card more likely to have knockouts so they might be a little earlier than the pay per view fight...


----------



## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

I would just like to say, one more time: Fuck Primetime. They're having a laugh.


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Chavez weighed in at 158, odd weight for him to come in at, even if he is a diuretic using muhfucka. You'd have expected him to try and weigh in at the limit so he could have been less dehydrated. Maybe hes just putting in serious work to make the weight more comfortably though. I don't know.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

i think he'll be ok. with ariza there, he won't let him come in there in less than top condition for this occasion...


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

man, the main events could come on at about 4:30-5 o'clock. Yall gon be up?


----------



## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

I hope Sergio fucking mullers him.


----------



## Casual Benson's Unknown (Jun 5, 2012)

I've stayed up until the early hours for far worse cards than the Canelo one, i'll be up. 

I don't think the Tarver/Kayode card finished until gone 5, and that was an appalling night of boxing.

EDIT: Just after 6 am it finished.


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

Anyone got the pics of the weigh in?


----------



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)




----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)




----------



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)

:lol: Sergio is seriously pumped for this fight.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)




----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Macklin...


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)




----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)




----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)




----------



## Twelvey (Jun 6, 2012)

Chavez looks ill as usual.


----------



## Meast (Jun 3, 2012)

12downfor10 said:


> Chavez looks ill as usual.


:lol: true


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

I've never seen Martinez so pumped up


----------



## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

158!? Chavez looks really gaunt.


----------



## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

Vano-irons said:


> I've never seen Martinez so pumped up


You're in for a treat.


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

Vano-irons said:


> I've never seen Martinez so pumped up





Flash Jab said:


> You're in for a treat.


WAR Maravilla! :ibutt


----------



## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Chavez actually looks ill. Martinez, who automatically made women orgasm and men pop a woody when he took off his top, looks incredibly healthy.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Looks like the judges might not be a factor afterall. Sulaiman has been kicking off because the nevada state commision didn't consult him on the judging panel.

Damn, I knew Sulaiman and his Mexican biddys were close but I didn't know he was actually Juniors Godfather.

All on the scene


----------



## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

Cannot wait to see Rigondeaux fight too, that guy is amazing.


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

are the 24/7 and face/offs in this thread


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

LP said:


> are the 24/7 and face/offs in this thread


yeah somewhere, I dont think the 3rd episode is yet but ill find it and post it in a minute


----------



## Vano-irons (Jun 6, 2012)

I was actually tipping Jr to pull off an upset in this one. He has improved remarkably, and his workrate and strength, I felt anyway, could give Martinez some trouble. But no. Martinez is gonna tap that arse hard


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

chatty said:


> yeah somewhere, I dont think the 3rd episode is yet but ill find it and post it in a minute


Legend


----------



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)

LP said:


> are the 24/7 and face/offs in this thread


I'm sure they are somewhere but I'll put them up now to make them easier to see :good


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

http://sosoboxing.com/boxing-video-...s-sergio-martinez-hbo-247-episode-3-overtime/


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

Roe said:


> I'm sure they are somewhere but I'll put them up now to make them easier to see :good


sound, you can send that v cash over at some point as well


----------



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)

Face off - 



24/7 Ep 1 - 



24/7 Ep 2 - 



24/7 Overtime (part 1) - 



24/7 Overtime (part 2) -


----------



## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

And the face off is probably the best HBO has ever done, its fucking fantastic.


----------



## 084 (Jun 5, 2012)

cheers guys


----------



## Twelvey (Jun 6, 2012)

I feel worse than Chavez looks, drank snakebowls last night (fishbowls with a pint of snake bite in), I don't know how I'm going to stay up tonight.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

12downfor10 said:


> I feel worse than Chavez looks, drank snakebowls last night (fishbowls with a pint of snake bite in), I don't know how I'm going to stay up tonight.


More snakebowls will probably help:lp


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

allenko1 said:


> man, the main events could come on at about 4:30-5 o'clock. Yall gon be up?


Hell yes.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I'm on babysitting duties all weekend so my plan is to go to bed about 9ish then get up at 4, Doubt it will work but the thought is there


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

Wallet said:


> Hell yes.


Fancy some fight night later, @Wallet ? I'm thinking in the leading hours up to the undercard.


----------



## Wallet (May 31, 2012)

Bryn said:


> Fancy some fight night later, @Wallet ? I'm thinking in the leading hours up to the undercard.


I can't.

I haven't got the internets working on my Xbox here yet.


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

Wallet said:


> I can't.
> 
> I haven't got the internets working on my Xbox here yet.


I'm gutted, but that sounds like a massive duck to me.
@Teeto can verify whether or not this counts as an EVT win for me, as I'm still not sure how it works.

@Buff Orpington


----------



## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

@Bryn

it will have to go to the EVT committee, it's a close call

@Amir Orpington


----------



## Scotty (Jun 6, 2012)

I cannot figure out if Chavez Jr is super relaxed or totally shitting himself.


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

Mr.Gilfoid said:


> I cannot figure out if Chavez Jr is super relaxed or totally shitting himself.


:lol: I can see what you mean.


----------



## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

The 5 posters who picked Chavez by decision are shitting themselves right about now.


----------



## Barlivia (Jun 8, 2012)

I can't wait for this! I know they're robbing fuckers but I've just ordered it off crimetime. My broadband isn't worth talking about so no way I could _*order the legal, official, paid for, Primetime stream*_ . When it comes to fights like these though I couldn't care less about the money


----------



## Bryn (Jun 2, 2012)

What a legend, but I did edit your post a little bit @Barlivia


----------



## Barlivia (Jun 8, 2012)

Bryn said:


> What a legend, but I did edit your post a little bit @Barlivia


Cheers for that! My mistake I never thought of that atsch


----------



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)

Finally sticking my neck out and making a prediction for this fight. Martinez is gonna dominate early on, Chavez then looks to be getting stronger from rounds 5 to 9 before he starts to fade and sexy Sergio walks him on to a huge overhand right and flattens him in the 10th.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Roe said:


> Finally sticking my neck out and making a prediction for this fight. Martinez is gonna dominate early on, Chavez then looks to be getting stronger from rounds 5 to 9 before he starts to fade and sexy Sergio walks him on to a huge overhand right and flattens him in the 10th.


Sergio is a southpaw


----------



## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)

Chacal said:


> Sergio is a southpaw


:huh and?

Oh I see you mean with the overhand right bit. Yeah well maybe a left is more likely but I reckon Sergio might switch at times tonight anyway.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Roe said:


> :huh and?
> 
> Oh I see you mean with the overhand right bit. Yeah well maybe a left is more likely but I reckon Sergio might switch at times tonight anyway.


Yeah that's the bit I meant, s'all good.


----------

