# Golovkin vs. Martirosyan Finalized For May 5 on HBO, StubHub



## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Oh dear, 100 pages minimum lol

https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-tests-positive-clenbuterol-ahead-golovkin-fight--125925


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## McKay (Jun 6, 2012)

Clenelo Alvarez


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## Bernard Black (Mar 7, 2015)

@Doc


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Nooooo, not Canelo!

edit: "As part of the voluntary testing program that Canelo Alvarez insisted on ahead of his May 5 fight, one of his results came back positive for trace levels of Clenbuterol, consistent with meat contamination that has impacted dozens of athletes in Mexico over the last years.

As Daniel Eichner, Director of SMRTL, the WADA-accredited lab that conducted the tests stated in his letter today, "These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination.""


They need crack down on whatever the hell is going on in Mexico. I have no idea whether this is a cover up or a mistake.


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## Smirk (Dec 14, 2013)

Golden Boy press release and a quote from the test lab attempting to exonerate the accused man... If you are unable to see the comedy in this I'm not sure how you maintain your sanity as a fan of the sport.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

As Daniel Eichner, Director of SMRTL, the WADA-accredited lab that conducted the tests stated in his letter today

"These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination."

These guy keep getting away with it lol


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## Smirk (Dec 14, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> As Daniel Eichner, Director of SMRTL, the WADA-accredited lab that conducted the tests stated in his letter today
> 
> "These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination."
> 
> These guy keep getting away with it lol


"He tested positive. Our bad."


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

:lol:


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## pipe wrenched (Jun 4, 2013)

What the absolute fuck??


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## Boogle McDougal (Jun 8, 2012)

lol okay

so is this just gonna get swept under the rug?


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## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

It's for the greater good folks. Just pretend like this didn't happen.


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## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Fight is two months away. It'll all be forgotten by then.


Unless he tests positive again...


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Well that is completely fucked.. Like Bball said something has to be done about this.. We can't continue to have fighters test positive then say 'tainted meat' and move on from it.. There will now be a cloud of doubt above Canelo whether he really cheated or didn't.. Shit that sucks.


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## mike_bngs (Jun 4, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Well that is completely fucked.. Like Bball said something has to be done about this.. We can't continue to have fighters test positive then say 'tainted meat' and move on from it.. There will now be a cloud of doubt above Canelo whether he really cheated or didn't.. Shit that sucks.


It's surely a mistake, I'm an age when boxers walk around more than twenty pounds heavier than their fighting weight, who would expected cheating?


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

:rofl


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## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

:lol:

Move along, nothing to see here, folks. See you on May 5th still.


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## Broxi (Jul 24, 2012)

Boggle said:


> lol okay
> 
> so is this just gonna get swept under the rug?


We'll see, it's trending pretty hot in Twitter, they might try and he probably won't face any punishment but this shit is going to stick.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

A buddy of mine who is the most casual of fight fans texted me about this. A guy who pretty much only watches fights at my house and about 3 times a year. 

This is big news. And in boxing, it is hard to say there's such a thing as bad publicity.


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## Erratic (Aug 9, 2017)

Interesting...apparently the fight is still on.

I don’t know too much about the science behind this and contaminated meat and stuff. I generally just think PED use is pretty prevalent everywhere.


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## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

If that many other athletes have tested positive because of that too then I don't really think it's a big deal.


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## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

If this fight goes on then GGG also gets to use some PEDS


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Canelo Alvarez gets his meat shipped from Mexico?


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## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

How can they deduce that the test is immediately due to tainted meat?


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## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

GlassJaw said:


> If that many other athletes have tested positive because of that too then I don't really think it's a big deal.


That many athletes have also been BANNED for testing positive for it.


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## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

sugarshane_24 said:


> How can they deduce that the test is immediately due to tainted meat?


Because what other excuses do they have :lol:


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## pipe wrenched (Jun 4, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> There will now be a cloud of doubt above Canelo whether he really cheated or didn't.. Shit that sucks.


That's what's got me trippin'...

No matter what, this will be brought up...especially if Canelo does better this fight.

What a steamy pile of fucked up shit...


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## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

Guess if he suddenly has a gas tank we know what's up.


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## pipe wrenched (Jun 4, 2013)

DynamicMoves said:


> Guess if he suddenly has a gas tank we know what's up.


@Divi253

:yep


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## homebrand (May 21, 2013)

from 2016:

_NFL players are being warned about consuming meat produced in China and Mexico that potentially contains clenbuterol, which is banned under the league's performance-enhancing substance policy.

The drug-testing program's independent administrator sent a memo to players, saying "consuming large quantities of meat while visiting those particular countries may result in a positive test."

Clenbuterol is a muscle-building and weight-loss stimulant.

_
__
*Brown's case prompted NFL's meat warning*
_The unusual case of Texans LT Duane Brown, who had a suspension overturned due to bad beef, spurred the NFL to warn its players about eating meats from Mexico and China.

"Players are warned to be aware of this issue when traveling to Mexico and China," the memo read. "Please take caution if you decide to consume meat, and understand that you do so at your own risk."

*The drug-testing program again advised: "Players are responsible for what is in their bodies."*
http://www.espn.com.au/nfl/story/_/...o-much-meat-mexico-china-result-positive-test
_
Canelo didn't get the memo? Very suspect.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> How can they deduce that the test is immediately due to tainted meat?


I'm guessing it's team Canelo saying it's meat while vada is confirming that the amount found in his blood is consistent with contamination


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Canelo is a huge guy he should be at LHW but he is getting down to 160, none of these guys are stupid enough to get caught high amounts but even low amounts of something is suspicious, let GGG roid up and he will turn prime again


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## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

homebrand said:


> from 2016:
> 
> _NFL players are being warned about consuming meat produced in China and Mexico that potentially contains clenbuterol, which is banned under the league's performance-enhancing substance policy.
> 
> ...


I remember Duane Brown. In his case, he recalled all the meat he ate while he was on vacation. Can Canelo do that? Will he have to?


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

GlassJaw said:


> If that many other athletes have tested positive because of that too then I don't really think it's a big deal.


Same, this isn't really something I'd be concerned about.



bballchump11 said:


> I'm guessing it's team Canelo saying it's meat while vada is confirming that the amount found in his blood is consistent with contamination


Not only that, its a fairly common problem in Mexico.

There was a time when half of the Mexican Mens Soccer team tested positive for the same reason.


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

ITS THE MEXICAN MEAT PEOPLE


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

I believe a ton of athletes are on PEDS and wouldn#t be shocked if canelo was but I kinda belive him. Kinda like the Lucas Browne situation. Do I honestly think browne is lean 250lbs and clean?....But I do believe he got fucked over in cehcnya. Similarly I believe tainted meat and supplements are an issue and in Mexico and China tainted meat seems to be a real issue.

I just don't think someone with the money and long career of canelo would fail a test for something like Clenbuterol he is the kind of guy who cna afford designer steroids and not fucking cow boosters.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> I believe a ton of athletes are on PEDS and wouldn#t be shocked if canelo was but I kinda belive him. Kinda like the Lucas Browne situation. Do I honestly think browne is lean 250lbs and clean?....But I do believe he got fucked over in cehcnya. Similarly I believe tainted meat and supplements are an issue and in Mexico and China tainted meat seems to be a real issue.
> 
> I just don't think someone with the money and long career of canelo would fail a test for something like Clenbuterol he is the kind of *guy who cna afford designer steroids and not fucking cow boosters.*


:deal


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Canelo Alvarez gets his meat shipped from Mexico?


Canelo lives in Mexico, from what I understand he had not started his Colorado camp yet.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Amir Khan about to says hes only lost to a cheating fighter with Virgil Hunter and it should be changed to a N/C lol


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## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

It's always hard to judge these situations without knowing the science and circumstances.

As long as this fight goes ahead I don't give af though.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)




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## Kingboxer (Jul 31, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Canelo lives in Mexico, from what I understand he had not started his Colorado camp yet.


Live in Mexico, eat Mexican meat all your life but finally pop before the biggest rematch of your life where your stamina failed you the first time, brehs.

After the Luis Nery fiasco it's hard to completely give the benefit of the doubt here. Same meat situation, destroyed Yamanaka, then showed up 5lbs overweight in the rematch "clean" to repeat the outcome. It reeks of shadiness is all.

The fights going to happen either way though. Everyone's gonna run with the contaminated meat story. It's better not to think about it and just enjoy the show.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

I wonder if Canelo can have any more cards stacked in his favour?

maybe they should just gift him the decision again now and save GGG a couple brain cells


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Abel Sanchez reacts to the news that Canelo tested positive for Clenbuterol - "I have to give him the benefit of the doubt"


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Should have seen this coming.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kingboxer said:


> Live in Mexico, eat Mexican meat all your life but finally pop before the biggest rematch of your life where your stamina failed you the first time, brehs.
> 
> After the Luis Nery fiasco it's hard to completely give the benefit of the doubt here. Same meat situation, destroyed Yamanaka, then showed up 5lbs overweight in the rematch "clean" to repeat the outcome. It reeks of shadiness is all.
> 
> The fights going to happen either way though. Everyone's gonna run with the contaminated meat story. It's better not to think about it and just enjoy the show.


Think about it, we have two possible scenarios here.

1. One of boxings biggest draws chose to use taco enhancing drugs over undetectable and (I'd have to assume) way more effective designer drugs. After choosing the burger enhancers he was then stupid enough to test positive.

2. Canelo ate out somewhere that was serving tainted meat in a country where this is a well known and documented problem and tested positive as a result.

So you're telling me number 1 is the most probable here?


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Should have seen this coming.


I think you're on to something here Bogo, I read in another thread that Sly was a known racist...:think1


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## Kingboxer (Jul 31, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Think about it, we have two possible scenarios here.
> 
> 1. One of boxings biggest draws chose to use taco enhancing drugs over undetectable and (I'd have to assume) way more effective designer drugs. After choosing the burger enhancers he was then stupid enough to test positive.
> 
> ...


Ofcourse not, no. I'm just saying that with how this "tainted meat" problem has been brushed aside in the past with Nery and Morales, both guys that had been struggling with weightcuts, allowed to continue with their fights, I'm not going to just automatically assume this is an open and shut case of being an accident.

Why stick a needle in your ass and run the (however slight) risk of ruining your career and legacy, when you can eat a good ole mexican super steak and play the tainted meat card that has worked in the past :lol:

The more I type about this the more stupid as hell it sounds. Fuckin' contaminaited beef is fucking up the super fight of the year :lol: this is some dumb ass shit.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

GlassJaw said:


> If that many other athletes have tested positive because of that too then I don't really think it's a big deal.


It's the to-go excuse from Clen, athletes always use the "tainted meat" excuse regardless of the amount of Clen in their system.

Clen is also used for weight loss which makes Canelo's case more suspect since he's such a big cutter.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kingboxer said:


> Ofcourse not, no. I'm just saying that with how this "tainted meat" problem has been brushed aside in the past with Nery and Morales, both guys that had been struggling with weightcuts, allowed to continue with their fights, I'm not going to just automatically assume this is an open and shut case of being an accident.
> 
> Why stick a needle in your ass and run the (however slight) risk of ruining your career and legacy, when you can eat a good ole mexican super steak and play the tainted meat card that has worked in the past :lol:
> 
> The more I type about this the more stupid as hell it sounds. Fuckin' contaminaited beef is fucking up the super fight of the year :lol: this is some dumb ass shit.


You can open up threads about Nery and Erik, we'll look at their situations to see if it makes sense.

As far as Canelo goes, at this point in time he'd have to be plain fucken retarded to think dealing with the pushback would be worth using it when if he wants he can access superior and undetectable stuff.

It doesn't make any sense at all, you can cry about Yamanaka getting KO'd all you want that has nothing to do with this case.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Bernard Black said:


> @Doc


Not worried at all here, many mexican fighters have tested positive from this type of drug due to the meat consumption and being less regulated then USA for hormones and drugs, while back in the USA all this crap meat should be flused out of his system. It's like having a beer and driving an hour later, might be something lingering in there but nothing to see here folks.

I can see the comments may 6, drugnelo took the roids to KO ggg...

canelos outcome is completely tainted unless he loses which even then the comments would be drugnelo couldn't win even with roids..

canelo has now stepped into the twilight zone and there is no turning back, lose lose for him.. haha!


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Think about it, we have two possible scenarios here.
> 
> 1. One of boxings biggest draws chose to use taco enhancing drugs over undetectable and (I'd have to assume) *way more effective designer drugs.* After choosing the burger enhancers he was then stupid enough to test positive.
> 
> ...


What designer drugs are better at weight loss than Clen or Clen+T3?
DNP is extremely uncommon and not a designer drug so please don't use that as an example.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

dyna said:


> What designer drugs are better at weight loss than Clen or Clen+T3?
> DNP is extremely uncommon and not a designer drug so please don't use that as an example.


I'm not a drug expert Dyna, but I'm fairly confident that someone like Heredia could get him excellent results and he'd test clean. Whether its with something custom or a good schedule, hell he could pay off the testers.

It doesn't make sense for someone at that level to try to gain an illegal advantage in a sloppy way like that. Its plain retarded.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Doc said:


> Not worried at all here, many mexican fighters have tested positive from this type of drug due to the meat consumption and being less regulated then USA for hormones and drugs, while back in the USA all this crap meat should be flused out of his system. It's like having a beer and driving an hour later, might be something lingering in there but nothing to see here folks.
> 
> I can see the comments may 6, drugnelo took the roids to KO ggg...
> 
> ...


This is exactly right Doc, in a sport thats already looked at as corrupt he'll be seen as guilty regardless.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

also i dont know drugs, but i know canelo like mayweather stays in shape 24/7 365 as he is a disciplined fighter, i find it hihgly unlikely he would be using this type of substance 3 months away from a fight when it would make sense to use it a week before a fight to make weight... im not expert here but it just doesn't make any sense to think this is due to canelo wanting to cheat.

I'm unconvinced.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

The most likely culprits:

1. Mama Canelo. Loving mother, home chef. Likely more preoccupied with full flavor and generous quantities than with strict sourcing of ingredients.










2. Chepo Reynoso himself. From a family of butchers. Has a vested interest in selective contamination, if not perhaps a presumed tendency to use meat from his home country when present there.










3. The Mexican mercados/carnicerias. Below the typical standard of a multi-millionaire athlete's diet, but not necessarily excluded from their temptations. Expert witness Robert Garcia's testimony:


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

excellent research mi amigo @Bogotazo


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> The most likely culprits:
> 
> 1. Mama Canelo. Loving mother, home chef. Likely more preoccupied with full flavor and generous quantities than with strict sourcing of ingredients.
> 
> ...


Deflection from responsibility and accountability.

Poor effort


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

I'm going to Mexico in April...can't wait to stuff my face with tacos for the entire time and then leave the country ripped and lean.


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Canelo lives in Cali. Possibly his mom too. Not buying the taineted taco meat/carne asada/chicharron/tripitas story just yet. The man lives in the US.

Let's be honest a lot of foreigners and Mexicans play dumb when they are being questioned. Pretending they don't know english and shit like that. It's easy to blame Mexican meat, but the mother fucker lives in the US lol.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Notice to all elite athletes! - Mild doses of PEDS are acceptable if you train in Mehico.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I'm not a drug expert Dyna, but I'm fairly confident that someone like Heredia could get him excellent results and he'd test clean. Whether its with something custom or a good schedule, hell he could pay off the testers.
> 
> It doesn't make sense for someone at that level to try to gain an illegal advantage in a sloppy way like that. Its plain retarded.


Of course tainted meat is a plausible excuse.
But people make mistakes all the time, people don't even follow the basic procedures of nuclear plants.
Heredia and Canelo aren't infallible.

But WADA says tainted meat is plausible enough, so tainted meat it is.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Doc said:


> also i dont know drugs, but i know canelo like mayweather stays in shape 24/7 365 as he is a disciplined fighter, i find it hihgly unlikely he would be using this type of substance 3 months away from a fight when it would *make sense to use it a week before a fight to make weight*... im not expert here but it just doesn't make any sense to think this is due to canelo wanting to cheat.
> 
> I'm unconvinced.


Clenbuterol is not a diuretic or laxative.
It's a drug that's commonly used for fat loss, so it's not something you can take a few days before the fight and expect it to have a meaningful effect. There are diuretics and laxatives for that.

Of course it doesn't make sense to you, a drug that's commonly used for weight loss being caught in the system of a notorious weight cutter and who comes into training camps heavy.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Notice to all elite athletes! - Mild doses of PEDS are acceptable if you train in Mehico.


Tainted meat is plausible...
But a huge weight cutter being caught with Clen is very suspicious.


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## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Well that is completely fucked.. Like Bball said something has to be done about this.. We can't continue to have fighters test positive then say 'tainted meat' and move on from it.. There will now be a cloud of doubt above Canelo whether he really cheated or didn't.. Shit that sucks.


Funny Canelo tests positive, yet there is a "cloud of dust" whether cheated or not. Pacquiao never failed shit yet he is for sure juicing. Fucking dumbasses. :lol:


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Bjj_Boxer said:


> Funny Canelo tests positive, yet there is a "cloud of dust" whether cheated or not. Pacquiao never failed shit yet he is for sure juicing. Fucking dumbasses. :lol:


I've never said Pacquiao "is for sure juicing."

Don't quote me about stupid things. Thanks.


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## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

https://sports.yahoo.com/canelo-alvarez-caught-embarrassing-situation-failed-ped-test-clenbuterol-222205202.html said:


> Alvarez was training in his native Mexico when the positive test was discovered. Alvarez twice failed tests, on Feb. 17 and Feb. 20, both for trace amounts of the drug. Both the Feb. 17 sample and the Feb. 20 sample were received at the lab on Feb. 21.


Twice, if it hasn't been mentioned yet.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Canelo before Training camp:


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

This entire thread is a wild boar. (That works better when you SAY it.  )

Just ring the damned bell, already, and let 'em fight.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I'm not a drug expert Dyna, but I'm fairly confident that someone like Heredia could get him excellent results and he'd test clean. Whether its with something custom or a good schedule, hell he could pay off the testers.
> 
> It doesn't make sense for someone at that level to try to gain an illegal advantage in a sloppy way like that. Its plain retarded.


People make mistakes all the time. How likely is it that a rich top athlete who clearly knows about the tainted meat would still eat something that would be a risk? Why is that more likely?


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/970789594710073345


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/970775000675430401


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/970771662680612867


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Nothing to see here folks.

Chepo is a keen butcher and a lover of traditional Mexican meat. We know the meat is overran with it and the levels suggest contamination. Good enough for me, I never believe it for a second when fighters fail for shitty drugs like this that would make no sense to use. No way Canelo was just randomly start popping peds, it'd be a thought out process with a doctor. No one who knows anything about performance enhancers would start dishing out trace elements of Clen. If it was any other drug then you'd have no argument but this excuse makes sense.

Case cleared.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

TFG said:


> Nothing to see here folks.
> 
> Chepo is a keen butcher and a lover of traditional Mexican meat. .












Nothing to see here folks.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

dyna said:


> Tainted meat is plausible...
> But a huge weight cutter being caught with Clen is very suspicious.


You're acting like Canelo balloons up in weight between fights like Rios or Maidana. He's not fighting at 155 anymore, you know that right?


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## Bernard Black (Mar 7, 2015)

Doc said:


> also i dont know drugs, but i know canelo like mayweather stays in shape 24/7 365 as he is a disciplined fighter, i find it hihgly unlikely he would be using this type of substance 3 months away from a fight when it would make sense to use it a week before a fight to make weight... im not expert here but it just doesn't make any sense to think this is due to canelo wanting to cheat.
> 
> I'm unconvinced.


That's not how clen works.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Deflection from responsibility and accountability.
> 
> Poor effort


If it were up to me he'd need damn good proof to prevent the fight being cancelled. Just poking fun


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## Bernard Black (Mar 7, 2015)

Pedrin1787 said:


> You're acting like Canelo balloons up in weight between fights like Rios or Maidana. He's not fighting at 155 anymore, you know that right?


He is still over 175 in the ring.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

JamieC said:


> People make mistakes all the time. How likely is it that a rich top athlete who clearly knows about the tainted meat would still eat something that would be a risk? Why is that more likely?


It is more likely because it is a known issue in the country where he lives.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Bernard Black said:


> He is still over 175 in the ring.


Is that what he weighed for the 1st fight?


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> It is more likely because it is a known issue in the country where he lives.


'a known issue - such a shame the millionaire pro athlete has no way to avoid this known issue. Some might say that's incredibly convenient or being wilfully negligent.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

JamieC said:


> 'a known issue - such a shame the millionaire pro athlete has no way to avoid this known issue. Some might say that's incredibly convenient or being wilfully negligent.


I find it even more unlikely that the millionaire athlete, with his vast resources, would make such a sloppy and amateurish attempt at cheating.

Still, if this was the case, he lost a lot more than he gained.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I find it even more unlikely that the millionaire athlete, with his vast resources, would make such a sloppy and amateurish attempt at cheating.
> 
> Still, if this was the case, he lost a lot more than he gained.


People make mistakes all the time. Otherwise nobody would get caught because believe me you don't have to be at his level of wealth and fame to have a team working for you to help you dope but people still get caught.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

JamieC said:


> People make mistakes all the time. Otherwise nobody would get caught because believe me you don't have to be at his level of wealth and fame to have a team working for you to help you dope but people still get caught.


My point is that he could afford people that don't make these mistakes.

At the end of the day, whether he cheated or not doesn't matter, if he wins he won't get proper credit.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

He could have eaten contaminated meat but lets be real anyone expecting this fight to be cancelled or Canelo to be punished is in lala land.

We saw before Floyd Manny that a huge fight goes ahead no matter if one is caught essentially doping. They even made rules up so Floyd could get away with it.. 

Problem is I suspect a high percentage of boxers will be doping in someway, whether to lose weight, improve stamina, train harder, etc its just part and parcel of profeasional sports, when theres millions on the line people are gonna find a way to let the millions flow. This aint just in boxing either, its happening in most sports.

I mean I couldnt say Canelo is definitely juicing on purpose but this seems like the most convenient excuse of moment for boxers because theyve seen a few get away with it. 

The juicers are ahead of the testers but they still get caught out cause practices change and the testers are always improving. Its a massive game of cat and mouse but sometimes the cat prevails. 

Anyway, we'll have a good hundred page argument on this issue and nothing will happen then a couple of months down the line someone else will get caught similarly and itll all go round again.


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## Lampley (Jun 4, 2013)

These excuses are hilarious. People have been getting busted for Clen for decades and always rely on some bogus contamination rationale. World class athletes have been caught; why should Canelo be any different?

This contaminated Mexican meat problem has been trumpeted for many years. Canelo is a famous, very wealthy athlete with the ability to source his food from anywhere in the world. And yet, he chose uncle fester's roadside beef stand? Unlikely. When you combine the hot test plus his known cutting plus his stamina problems (an area where Clen helps), it's much more likely that he's a peds abuser than this is some (extraordinarily stupid) mistake.

Every Canelo win of recent vintage now has to be questioned. It's a shame.


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## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> It is more likely because it is a known issue in the country where he lives.


You mean the USA?


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

I know too many Mexicans that play dumb when caught red handed with some shit. I


Pedrin1787 said:


> It is more likely because it is a known issue in the country where he lives.


He doesn't live in Mexico anymore he lives in Cali. So does his trainers.


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> My point is that he could afford people that don't make these mistakes.
> 
> At the end of the day, whether he cheated or not doesn't matter, if he wins he won't get proper credit.


Yeah so can Olympic teams and countless other athletes that have been caught.

I don't know if he's cheated or not btw


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

You all think Canelo eats some pre prepared shit in a tupperware box year-round? I dont care how rich you are, it doesn't stop you indulging in a family BBQ or two.

Is it reckless? Well you can say that, but eating any form of meat in Mexico is reckless. That's the level of carelessness we're talking about.

We will likely never know, but you simply cannot rule this out as a plausible excuse. You can't rule it out that he cheated either. Weigh up the evidence and believe what you find most likely.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

2manyusernames said:


> You mean the USA?





BobDigi5060 said:


> I know too many Mexicans that play dumb when caught red handed with some shit. I
> 
> He doesn't live in Mexico anymore he lives in Cali. So does his trainers.


Nice use of google buds. If you follow him on social media you'll see that he spends a considerable amount of time in his home state of Guadalajara. That is where his family lives.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Yeah so can Olympic teams and countless other athletes that have been caught.
> 
> I don't know if he's cheated or not btw


I can't confirm if he cheated or not either, I just find the tained meat more probable.

Still the damage is done regardless. I really don't care as long as the fight is not cancelled, and like @Chatty said, it most likely won't.


----------



## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

I got a ***** avatar cause i said this fight wouldnt happen in 2018 ☺


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Drunkenboat said:


> I got a ***** avatar cause i said this fight wouldnt happen in 2018 ☺


You said Canelo would duck Golovkin for two years, I gave you the 2018 because I felt sorry for you.


----------



## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> You said Canelo would duck Golovkin for two years, I gave you the 2018 because I felt sorry for you.


Haha look at your avatar!


----------



## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

Clenbuterol has fat burning properties and athletes have been known to use it to help them drop body fat and weight quickly.

Canelo and weight cutting hmmmm.....


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> Is it reckless? Well you can say that, but eating any form of meat in Mexico is reckless. That's the level of carelessness we're talking about.
> 
> We will likely never know, but you simply cannot rule this out as a plausible excuse. You can't rule it out that he cheated either. Weigh up the evidence and believe what you find most likely.


Yeah this is how I feel ultimately, on the surface the proof (or lack thereof) swings either way so I just shrug and add him to the very long list of elite fighters caught a failed test with or widely suspected of juicing. I won't be thinking of this during the fight unless there's anything highly unusual and find either type of mistake about equally likely.


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Nice use of google buds. If you follow him on social media you'll see that he spends a considerable amount of time in his home state of Guadalajara. That is where his family lives.


Well duh, he has to spend some time in Mexico, otherwise he doesn't have an excuse. And he has to make it publicly known, hence posting on Instagram. Simple really.


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> I know too many Mexicans that play dumb when caught red handed with some shit. I
> 
> He doesn't live in Mexico anymore he lives in Cali. So does his trainers.


You are dumb my friend, he lives in mexico and trains in California...

his house and car collection is all in mexico when not it camp he is in mexico living it up.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

2manyusernames said:


> Well duh, he has to spend some time in Mexico, otherwise he doesn't have an excuse. And he has to make it publicly known, hence posting on Instagram. Simple really.


'Hence posting on Instagram'

This is sounding more conspiratorial than than the actual excuse :lol:

Turns out Chepo is actually vegan.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

The talk of millionaire athlete that doesn't know better is a little off. Because if that millionaire is told by someone he trusts, that was he's eating or taking is all good, then there really are no questions. 

The fact is he test positive. We'll see what happens from here...


----------



## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

This guy is a multi-millionare, why is he still buying this Mexican meat? He can easily purchase quality meat from other countries. SMH

WBA tells Luis Ortiz to fuck off, but sucks Canelo's nuts.

Whatever, money talks but LMAO


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

At this point I think though the fighters and teams have responsibility if anything is to be done it needs to come from the commissions and sanctioning bodies. Being so they are all useless in their own rights I dont expect it but all of them like to work in a grey area, basically so they can amend their rules as they feel.

Simply remove the grey areas. If you fail a test you get so much of a ban - all circumstance, that way the fighters have no excuses and 'accidents' become a thing of the past.

If they have doubts on these sort of things then sinpky have a set rule for how much of each substance can be allowed in your system before it becomes a bannable offence. Its not exactly hard to do. 

Yeah the second part invites some use as the Heredias of the world will use it to full advantage but at present they do anyway but at least it removes doubt.


----------



## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

lab said its within levels of contamination anyway.

those saying he shouldnt be eating meat in Mexico...You realize your asking a Mexican to not eat carne asada in his own country...


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

nuclear said:


> lab said its within levels of contamination anyway.


Lab also says it's within levels of someone taking performance enhancing drugs to cheat.


----------



## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

2manyusernames said:


> Lab also says it's within levels of someone taking performance enhancing drugs to cheat.


got a source?


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

nuclear said:


> got a source?


Yeah, the fact that they test for it in the first place :lol:


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

And that it's banned atsch


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

2manyusernames said:


> Yeah, the fact that they test for it in the first place :lol:


so the lab didnt actually say what you said. k.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> My point is that he could afford people that don't make these mistakes.
> 
> At the end of the day, whether he cheated or not doesn't matter, if he wins he won't get proper credit.


And owners of nuclear plants get subsidies so they can follow proper procedure and they still fail to do it.
What's a Mexican fighter in a fringe sport next to a billion dollar power plant?

People aren't perfect, mistakes are made.
Money or no money.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> You're acting like Canelo balloons up in weight between fights like Rios or Maidana. He's not fighting at 155 anymore, you know that right?


Just because he doesn't let himself go like Rior or Maidana doesn't mean he has to spend his whole camp cutting weight.
Canelo is a big guy even at 160.


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

nuclear said:


> so the lab didnt actually say what you said. k.


Yes they do, it's on their website under the list of banned substances.


----------



## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

2manyusernames said:


> Yes they do, it's on their website under the list of banned substances.


https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-tests-positive-clenbuterol-ahead-golovkin-fight--125925

_As Daniel Eichner, Director of SMRTL, the WADA-accredited lab that conducted the tests stated in his letter today, "These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination."_


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

dyna said:


> And owners of nuclear plants get subsidies so they can follow proper procedure and they still fail to do it.
> What's a Mexican fighter in a fringe sport next to a billion dollar power plant?
> 
> People aren't perfect, mistakes are made.
> Money or no money.


The top draw of the sport, let me remind you that not long ago boxings top draw was also the highest paid athlete in all sports.

Also, I'd assume managing a single fighters clen intake is considerably less complicated than managing a billion dollar power plant.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

I wonder if they will actually release the exact amount of Clen in his system that he's been caught with (twice)


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

nuclear said:


> https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-tests-positive-clenbuterol-ahead-golovkin-fight--125925
> 
> _As Daniel Eichner, Director of SMRTL, the WADA-accredited lab that conducted the tests stated in his letter today, "These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination."_


I haven't denied that to be true, so I'm not sure why you're posting that. However, the values are also within the range of someone taking banned drugs to cheat, and you seem to be denying that...


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

dyna said:


> Just because he doesn't let himself go like Rior or Maidana doesn't mean he has to spend his whole camp cutting weight.
> Canelo is a big guy even at 160.


You said he's a notorious weight cutter, while this would definately apply for his custom made 155 weight class, I don't think it applies to 160. He did not look to have a signifcant weight advantage over Gennady in fight one. He'd be dwarfed by top 168 pounders.


----------



## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

2manyusernames said:


> I haven't denied that to be true, so I'm not sure why you're posting that. However, the values are also within the range of someone taking banned drugs to cheat, and you seem to be denying that...


you seem to be unable to find a source backing up your claims

lets just let canelo take all the clen he wants. give him and ggg dick pills and instead of fighting they reenact @Pedrin1787 's avatar

winner gets oscar's lace underwear

loser gets a fishnet

KO bonus is oscar's wig


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

nuclear said:


> you seem to be unable to find a source backing up your claims
> 
> lets just let canelo take all the clen he wants. give him and ggg dick pills and instead of fighting they reenact @Pedrin1787 's avatar
> 
> ...


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> The top draw of the sport, let me remind you that not long ago boxings top draw was also the highest paid athlete in all sports.
> 
> Also, I'd assume managing a single fighters clen intake is considerably *less complicated than managing a billion dollar power plant.*


No, people fail to even follow very basic procedures like checking IDs or not sticking random USBs that lay on the street in their work PCs.
Doctors don't wash their hands, Jared the Subway guy straight up told people he liked raping young girls.
People make mistakes all the time, regardless of their wealth. Regardless of how easy or difficult it is to make a mistake. Overconfidence, stupidity, forgetfulness etc.


----------



## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

Pedrin1787 said:


>


easter euro with the racist trainer vs the roidhead redhead


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

dyna said:


> No, people fail to even follow very basic procedures like checking IDs or not sticking random USBs that lay on the street in their work PCs.
> Doctors don't wash their hands, Jared the Subway guy straight up told people he liked raping young girls.
> People make mistakes all the time, regardless of their wealth. Regardless of how easy or difficult it is to make a mistake. Overconfidence, stupidity, forgetfulness etc.


Or eat contaminated meat in a country where its use by cattle ranchers is fairly widespread.

Oh wait, no that one is very unlikely, he owns a house in San Diego you know.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> You said he's a notorious weight cutter, while this would definately apply for his custom made 155 weight class, I don't think it applies to 160. He did not look to have a signifcant weight advantage over Gennady in fight one. *He'd be dwarfed by top 168 pounders.*


Yes he'd get dwarfed by fighters who are bordering 190 pounds on fight night.
Canelo was anywhere from 171-174 at 155, you don't think he gained at least a few lbs in his move to MW?
That's already 175 pounds, that's Carl Froch's walk around weight.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

nuclear said:


> easter euro with the racist trainer vs the roidhead redhead


I'll buy the PPV twice if Abel comes in wearing his Klan hood.


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

nuclear said:


> you seem to be unable to find a source backing up your claims


:lol: It's on their list of banned substances. They test athletes to make sure they're not taking this performance enhancing drug :lol: What the hell else do you want?!

"Clenbuterol is an anabolic agent that prohibited at all times (i.e., both in- and out-of-competition). There is no threshold under which this substance is not prohibited.

At present, and based on expert opinions, there is no plan for WADA to introduce a threshold level for clenbuterol."

Happy? Probably not.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> You all think Canelo eats some pre prepared shit in a tupperware box year-round? I dont care how rich you are, it doesn't stop you indulging in a family BBQ or two.
> 
> Is it reckless? Well you can say that, but eating any form of meat in Mexico is reckless. That's the level of carelessness we're talking about.
> 
> We will likely never know, but you simply cannot rule this out as a plausible excuse. You can't rule it out that he cheated either. Weigh up the evidence and believe what you find most likely.


Shit Mayweather is richer than them all and is eating McDonalds lol


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Or eat contaminated meat in a country where its use by cattle ranchers is fairly widespread.
> 
> Oh wait, no that one is very unlikely, he owns a house in San Diego you know.


Basically your argument is that he has the brains and money behind to him to afford not testing positive if he's using it.
But not enough money or brains to get his meat from a better source.

And yet his lazier Mexican junk food eating brothers in Chavez Jr and Rios don't have Clen in their system.


----------



## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

2manyusernames said:


> :lol: It's on their list of banned substances. They test athletes to make sure they're not taking this performance enhancing drug :lol: What the hell else do you want?!
> 
> "Clenbuterol is an anabolic agent that prohibited at all times (i.e., both in- and out-of-competition). There is no threshold under which this substance is not prohibited.
> 
> ...


yes its so cut and dry

guess ill take your word over the director of the lab doing the testing


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

dyna said:


> Basically your argument is that he has the brains and money behind to him to afford not testing positive if he's using it.
> But not enough money or brains to get his meat from a better source.
> 
> And yet his lazier Mexican junk food eating brothers in Chavez Jr and Rios don't have Clen in their system.


I can see him having a meal without the gear to test it for clen on hand and saying "chinge su madre" (fuck it).


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

nuclear said:


> yes its so cut and dry
> 
> guess ill take your word over the director of the lab doing the testing


It's not cut and dry, is my point, it could be meat or cheat. And it's not my word, it's that of the lab who banned it :lol: the same folk you're quoting!


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Canelo said he's moving his camp to Mexico and doing more stringent testing, so that's good.

I wish vada made him submit more proof though so he could clear his name or be found guilty. This thing just allows anybody training in Mexico to cheat.

And maybe some of those guys who defended Povetkin for cheating vs Wilder would defend Canelo.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Canelo said he's moving his camp to Mexico and doing more stringent testing, so that's good.
> 
> I wish vada made him submit more proof though so he could clear his name or be found guilty. This thing just allows anybody training in Mexico to cheat.
> 
> And maybe some of those guys who defended Povetkin for cheating vs Wilder would defend Canelo.


Povetkin's so funny.
First he get tested and it was plausible that he only took meldonium before the ban.
New fight scheduled, tests positive again and this time for a completely different drug :lol:

Food contamination is plausible enough, it's ok if Canelo only gets a slap on the wrist. I don't believe him but shit can happen.

Stiverne was caught with stuff from some work-out pills and the sanctioning bodies didn't give a shit, would be strange if they suddenly cared about some Clen. Espcially with such a convenient excuse.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

dyna said:


> Povetkin's so funny.
> First he get tested and it was plausible that he only took meldonium before the ban.
> New fight scheduled, tests positive again and this time for a completely different drug :lol:
> 
> ...


 Lol yeah Stiverne's situation was straight ignored. How did he clear his name?


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

Didn't Erik Morales get banned for testing positive for clenbuterol?


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Lol yeah Stiverne's situation was straight ignored. How did he clear his name?


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

2manyusernames said:


> Didn't Erik Morales get banned for testing positive for clenbuterol?


Maybe, but they didn't even bother announcing the test results until after the fight had taken place.

Nothing to see, show must go on.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Canelo's cow...


Spoiler


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

__
http://instagr.am/p/Bf9w9MDnAAJ/


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

:lol:

Povetkin = piece of shit
Ortiz = piece of shit
Canelo = Well, now, see, things are complicated you see.

Never change WBF.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> :lol:
> 
> Povetkin = piece of shit
> Ortiz = piece of shit
> ...


Oh yeah I forgot all three situations had the same exact circumstances.

If Ortiz and Povetkin own houses in San Diego they're innocent in my book.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


>


Wish Skip was there.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4045696

"*Therapeutic dose (20, 40 and 80 micrograms/man)* of clenbuterol hydrochloride, a beta 2-adrenergic stimulant, was orally administered to healthy volunteers, and the unmetabolized drug in plasma and urine was determined by enzyme immunoassay. *The plasma levels of clenbuterol reached the maximum value of 0.1, 0.2 and 0.35 ng/ml *respectively, in a dose-dependent manner within 2.5 h, which lasted for over 6 h after the administration. The half-life of clenbuterol in plasma was estimated to be about 35 h. *When the drug was orally administered repeatedly to men twice a day, the plasma level reached the plateau within 4 d after the initial administration. At that time, the plasma levels of the unchanged form were 0.2 to 0.3 ng/ml and 0.5 to 0.6 ng/ml at doses of 20 and 40 micrograms/man, respectively."*










"specimen 4121793 contains approximately 0.6-0.8ng/ml of Clen..."

"values within range of what is expected from meat contamination"

So are they saying that you can get an effective dose of Clenbuterol simply from eating contaminated meat?
One of his positive tests had a high enough value that it wouldn't have been out of place for somebody on a mild Clen cycle.

These aren't trace amounts, it's literally an effective dose.


----------



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

So, if you want to get away with PEDs you can say "I´m mexican, my meat has peds" and all will be good...

The fight should be postponed at least.


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

dyna said:


> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4045696
> 
> "*Therapeutic dose (20, 40 and 80 micrograms/man)* of clenbuterol hydrochloride, a beta 2-adrenergic stimulant, was orally administered to healthy volunteers, and the unmetabolized drug in plasma and urine was determined by enzyme immunoassay. *The plasma levels of clenbuterol reached the maximum value of 0.1, 0.2 and 0.35 ng/ml *respectively, in a dose-dependent manner within 2.5 h, which lasted for over 6 h after the administration. The half-life of clenbuterol in plasma was estimated to be about 35 h. *When the drug was orally administered repeatedly to men twice a day, the plasma level reached the plateau within 4 d after the initial administration. At that time, the plasma levels of the unchanged form were 0.2 to 0.3 ng/ml and 0.5 to 0.6 ng/ml at doses of 20 and 40 micrograms/man, respectively."*
> 
> ...


Francisco Vargas failed a test pre-Salido with 1.3ng/ml and was given the benefit of the doubt that it was from contaminated meat.

Fight went ahead and no suspension or action taken against Vargas.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

dyna said:


> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4045696
> 
> "*Therapeutic dose (20, 40 and 80 micrograms/man)* of clenbuterol hydrochloride, a beta 2-adrenergic stimulant, was orally administered to healthy volunteers, and the unmetabolized drug in plasma and urine was determined by enzyme immunoassay. *The plasma levels of clenbuterol reached the maximum value of 0.1, 0.2 and 0.35 ng/ml *respectively, in a dose-dependent manner within 2.5 h, which lasted for over 6 h after the administration. The half-life of clenbuterol in plasma was estimated to be about 35 h. *When the drug was orally administered repeatedly to men twice a day, the plasma level reached the plateau within 4 d after the initial administration. At that time, the plasma levels of the unchanged form were 0.2 to 0.3 ng/ml and 0.5 to 0.6 ng/ml at doses of 20 and 40 micrograms/man, respectively."*
> 
> ...


I found this regarding a u17 World Cup that took place in Mexico.



> In 14 out of 47 meat samples (30%), clenbuterol was detected at concentrations between 0.06 and 11 µg/kg. A total of 109 urine samples out of 208 doping control specimens (52%) yielded clenbuterol findings at concentrations ranging from 1-1556 pg/ml, and only 5 out of 24 teams provided urine samples that did not contain clenbuterol. At least one of these teams was on a strict 'no-meat' diet reportedly due to the known issue of clenbuterol contamination in Mexico. Eventually, owing to the extensive evidence indicating meat contamination as the most plausible reason for the extraordinary high prevalence of clenbuterol findings, none of the soccer players were sanctioned.


Science guys (if we even have any here) correct me if my assumption is wrong, but from what I understand some of the tested meat had higher than 80 micrograms of clenbuterol per kilo.

You also had some positive tests come back with higher amounts of clenbuterol than Canelo's.

Only 5 of 24 teams came back completely clean.

Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dta.1471/full


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I found this regarding a u17 World Cup that took place in Mexico.
> 
> Science guys (if we even have any here) correct me if my assumption is wrong, but from what I understand some of the tested meat had higher than 80 micrograms of clenbuterol per kilo.
> 
> ...


@V-2 is my go to guy for that.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I found this regarding a u17 World Cup that took place in Mexico.
> 
> Science guys (if we even have any here) correct me if my assumption is wrong, but from what I understand some of the tested meat had higher than 80 micrograms of clenbuterol per kilo.
> 
> ...


Some of those kids could have very well been on Clen which explains such high concentrations.

And the study only mentions clen concentrations of up to 11 ug/kg.

If we take "When the drug was orally administered repeatedly to men twice a day, the plasma level reached the plateau within 4 d after the initial administration. At that time, the plasma levels of the unchanged form were 0.2 to 0.3 ng/ml and 0.5 to 0.6 ng/ml at doses of 20 and 40 micrograms/man, respectively." from the study I've previously linked then to get 0.6 ng/ml with that meat you'd have to eat 4 kg of contaminated meat twice per day for a few days. (total 8kg per day)

Even at 80 micrograms/kg that's at least 1kg of meat per day over a period of 4 days to get 0.6 ng/ml.
And 80ug/kg seems like a rather sensationalist number since the study you linked only mention up to 11 ug/kg.

Now some of those footie kids may have legit tested positive thanks to dirty meat. (the ones with just a few picograms) but no way the guys with up to 1.5 ng/ml in their system are clean.
Numbers don't add up.

Besides if the meat has enough Clen in it to be an effective dose the athlete is responsible for knowing what he's putting in his body. You can't just blame the meat when it's putting you at an unfair advantage.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Vic said:


> So, if you want to get away with PEDs you can say "I´m mexican, my meat has peds" and all will be good...
> 
> The fight should be postponed at least.


What should happen is this:

If you are found with any banned substance, you get suspended for 6 months, or whatever. It doesn't matter if it was intentional or not you still have an illegal edge.

If you can give a reasonable excuse, then you ONLY get the suspension.

If you can't give a reasonable excuse, then you get fined something like half of your next fight's income. 
(That way, high-level fighters get spanked just as hard as low-level fighters.)


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

dyna said:


> Some of those kids could have very well been on Clen which explains such high concentrations.
> 
> And the study only mentions clen concentrations of up to 11 ug/kg.
> 
> ...


Found a more thorough one.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/rcm.6485/full

A couple of things that are interesting:



> Particularly the scenario of the oral intake of clenbuterol via contaminated meat is plausible as demonstrated in a study by Hemmersbach _et al_. in 1995 where calves received the drug until 1 or 6 days prior to slaughtering and consumers' urine samples were tested 'positive' for clenbuterol with urinary concentrations between 30 and 850 pg/mL.


Canelo's results are in this range.



> The ingestion of contaminated meat produced until slaughtering under clenbuterol-based growth-promoted farming might contain nearly racemic mixtures of clenbuterol and thus mimics a drug administration in the presented assay.


It sounds like timing and how the ranchers treat their cattle has a lot to do with it.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Forgot to mention in my previous post that they conclude that there is no clear way to determine if the athlete tests positive due to drug administration or tainted meat.



> The enantiomeric depletion of clenbuterol in animal tissue after ingestion was demonstrated in the past and considered as a potential tool to support anti-doping authorities in deciding whether or not a suspension is required for an athlete whose doping control sample produced an AAF with clenbuterol. If the enantiomeric ratio found in the urine specimen is not consistent with those commonly observed in samples collected after therapeutic use of the drug, reasonable doubt as to the intentional ingestion of the prohibited substance is given and the athlete's guilt questionable. The approach however has proved so far suboptimal as the ratio of clenbuterol enantiomers in edible tissue is substantially influenced by the time course of drug administration to the animal. In other words, an enantiomeric ratio of (−)-/(+)-clenbuterol lower than 1 is definitely inconsistent with a drug administration (if the drug was based on a racemic mixture) and should therefore be considered in favor of the athlete; in contrast, a ratio higher than 1 does not necessarily prove clenbuterol drug abuse as the enantiomeric depletion is time-dependent, i.e., the ingestion of contaminated meat produced until slaughtering under clenbuterol-based growth-promoted farming might contain nearly racemic mixtures of clenbuterol and thus mimics a drug administration in the presented assay.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Forgot to mention in my previous post that they conclude that there is no clear way to determine if the athlete tests positive due to drug administration or tainted meat.


Or gay sex. (given your avatar, I'm surprised you didn't think of this!)

Or does that fall under the heading of "tainted meat?"

And BTW: Ewwww ......... :sad5


----------



## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

The timing of this is just too suspicious


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Or gay sex. (given your avatar, I'm surprised you didn't think of this!)
> 
> Or does that fall under the heading of "tainted meat?"
> 
> And BTW: Ewwww ......... :sad5


:lol:

@dyna gonna come in here talking about how many ng/ml of clenbuterol needs to be found in a load for the gay sex to be an excuse.


----------



## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

dyna said:


> It's the to-go excuse from Clen, athletes always use the "tainted meat" excuse regardless of the amount of Clen in their system.
> 
> Clen is also used for weight loss which makes Canelo's case more suspect since he's such a big cutter.


I guess I should have added since he lived in Mexico lol I would not be surprised


----------



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Eat CLEN, TREN hard ANAVAR give up!


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Drug testing is becoming a bit of a political thing these days. Mayweather, Canelo, Stiverne, and others can come in roided to the gills yet certain other dudes get crucified for this shit.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> Drug testing is becoming a bit of a political thing these days. Mayweather, Canelo, Stiverne, and others can come in roided to the gills yet certain other dudes get crucified for this shit.


When was Mayweather ever "roided to the gills"?

I notice that you didn't mention JMM...


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> When was Mayweather ever "roided to the gills"?
> 
> I notice that you didn't mention JMM...


Marquez hasn't done anything blatant like using an illegal IV or failing a test. I like how you are mentioning Marquez but questioning Mayweather all in the same sentence. :lol:


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> Marquez hasn't done anything blatant like using an illegal IV or failing a test. I like how you are mentioning Marquez but questioning Mayweather all in the same sentence. :lol:


Right, nothing blatant except undergo puberty at age 40 after hiring a known steroid expert.


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Right, nothing blatant except undergo puberty at age 40 after hiring a known steroid expert.


Not defending him, but he hasn't tested positive nor been caught trying to mask his shit. Dudes I mentioned already been caught. As I said, it's hilarious that you question Mayweather but talk about Marquez with skepticism. :lol:


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> Marquez hasn't done anything blatant like using an illegal IV or failing a test. I like how you are mentioning Marquez but questioning Mayweather all in the same sentence. :lol:


You're the same guy excusing Povetkin over and over


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> You're the same guy excusing Povetkin over and over


He had a good excuse the first time, and the evidence fell in line in the end, as the testing agency agreed. Weirdly enough, Povetkin/Wilder was postponed the first time. Surprised it isn't happening here.

The worst one has to be Mayweather/Pacquiao, though. That should've been changed to a N/C, easily. One guy took too many roids that he felt he needed to mask it. :lol:


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> Not defending him, but he hasn't tested positive nor been caught trying to mask his shit. Dudes I mentioned already been caught. As I said, it's hilarious that you question Mayweather but talk about Marquez with skepticism. :lol:


I'm not sure you know what the term 'roided to the gills' actually means...

Why won't you defend JMM? Are you skeptical of him?


----------



## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

It's just too convenient for him to have something like that in his system that we know helps with breathing/stamina. We've seen him start wearing the mask (can't remember if he's worn one before-wouldn't be surprised if he has at some point but that's beside the point) and for this camp he's going to train in Colorado at high altitude. He and everyone knows his stamina issues and now of all times he gets found with this in his system, despite having eaten the same meat all his life? I'm not gonna automatically say he's guilty but it does look very bad.


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> I'm not sure you know what the term 'roided to the gills' actually means...
> 
> Why won't you defend JMM? Are you skeptical of him?


Yes, I am, but as I said, the only evidence we have is acne and a sketchy trainer. There is no skepticism with Canelo and Mayweather's case. They've been caught.


----------



## V-2 (Jan 1, 2017)

bballchump11 said:


> @V-2 is my go to guy for that.


:lol:

I've tried to stay out of this one. Dyna's got it.

Clen is more anti-catabolic than necessarily anabolic though. You aren't getting jacked on fucking clenbuterol and if you're already out of shape it isn't going to do much for fat loss either, the side effects (shakes, heart palpitations, cramps if you don't supplement large doses of taurine) can actually be quite detrimental to stamina as well. It's a drug for already-fit athletic people either trying to shed last bits of stubborn body fat and/or maintain their strength and lean mass while cutting weight on a caloric deficit.

Pretty meh, it certainly isn't serious enough (to me) for it to impact whether or not I give Canelo credit for a hypothetical win over Golovkin and that'll have been due to his boxing ability and skills anyway. People get pretty hysterical over this shit and what they decide is up to them but I mean _it is_ on the banned substances list, so.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

V-2 said:


> :lol:
> 
> I've tried to stay out of this one. Dyna's got it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input :thumbsup

And the Coli forum still isn't allowing new registrations.


----------



## V-2 (Jan 1, 2017)

bballchump11 said:


> Thanks for the input :thumbsup
> 
> And the Coli forum still isn't allowing new registrations.


Yeah, they shut it down from time-to-time because the level of traffic on there gets absolutely overwhelming. It's first and foremost a sports and hip-hop forum but also serves as pretty much THE place on the internet with a central focus on black identity, politics, issues and culture. You're free to get as aggressively militant as you want on there, which is why @MichiganWarrior is loving it. :lol:


----------



## Gully Foyle (May 7, 2016)

There is enough circumstantial shit to say that he dopes, but in reality we don't know anything only Canelo and his closest camp truly know. 

Either way, the fight is already tainted.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

V-2 said:


> Yeah, they shut it down from time-to-time because the level of traffic on there gets absolutely overwhelming. It's first and foremost a sports and hip-hop forum but also serves as pretty much THE place on the internet with a central focus on black identity, politics, issues and culture. You're free to get as aggressively militant as you want on there, which is why @MichiganWarrior is loving it. :lol:


:lol: so if I make a thread about Remy Ma's diss song, I won't get a bunch of shitheads getting mad


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Conte has his biases but still worth considering his insight.

https://www.boxingscene.com/victor-conte-reacts-canelo-testing-positive-clenbuterol--125934


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Conte has his biases but still worth considering his insight.
> 
> https://www.boxingscene.com/victor-conte-reacts-canelo-testing-positive-clenbuterol--125934





> "[Canelo and Golovkin] fought six months ago. What have they been doing since then? For four months, they had the green light to do whatever they wanted.
> 
> "Here, we end up with this dog-ate-my-homework type of excuse and everyone thinks (Canelo) was doing drugs. It is plausible that he did not intentionally cheat. Nobody can say for sure if there was intent or not. He could have used Clenbuterol for three months and there are still traces in his body. Or he could have eaten tainted meat.


Whilst Canelo may well have done that it's inaccurate to say they were free to dope.

Both are subject to random year round testing through the WBC Clean Boxing Program. It would be insane to deliberately take a known, detectable banned substance for 3 months straight with that in place.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Ivan Drago said:


> Whilst Canelo may well have done that it's inaccurate to say they were free to dope.
> 
> Both are subject to random year round testing through the WBC Clean Boxing Program. It would be insane to deliberately take a known, detectable banned substance for 3 months straight with that in place.


I didn't know that, thanks. I remember the WBC having some sort of new initiative a while back but wasn't aware it was that extensive or that these two were on it (or just forgot).


----------



## Gully Foyle (May 7, 2016)

Where can I get chembuterol?

Is this prescription only in US? I wanna get ripped and huge like Canelo.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Gully Foyle said:


> Where can I get chembuterol?
> 
> Is this prescription only in US? I wanna get ripped and huge like Canelo.


Clen doesn't make you huge and albuterol is safer.


----------



## Gully Foyle (May 7, 2016)

dyna said:


> Clen doesn't make you huge and albuterol is safer.


What does it do? Is Albuterol prescription only?


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Gully Foyle said:


> What does it do? Is Albuterol prescription only?


At lower doses it opens up your airways.
At higher doses it increases your metabolic rate making it easier to cut fat.

Those two substances are mostly used by bodybuilders during their cut.
There's also the (far) more effective DNP, but DNP is easy to overdose and overdosing on DNP = fatal hyperthermia. Even an ice bath is barely effective in such a case(if you're lucky). Which is why it's barely used anymore.

Basically first you have the bulking phase, then you have the cutting phase and Clen/Albuterol are used during the cutting phase.
If you want to bulk you should get real steroids.


----------



## pipe wrenched (Jun 4, 2013)

I would like to ask a couple questions because I'm completely ignorant when it comes to most of this stuff...

After reading all the good posts in here, and because it sounds reasonable to me that this is not a short term effect substance (like it won't help you in the last week or so), what would he be taking this now for anyways? Would it be to help keeping from ballooning in the down time between fights?

And secondly, what does this do for cattle etc? I would have thought a farmer want his cattle to weigh as much as possible? :lol: Fug if I know..


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I didn't know that, thanks. I remember the WBC having some sort of new initiative a while back but wasn't aware it was that extensive or that these two were on it (or just forgot).


Applies to WBC Champs and fighters ranked in their top 15, those who don't sign up are removed from the rankings.


----------



## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

pipe wrenched said:


> I would like to ask a couple questions because I'm completely ignorant when it comes to most of this stuff...
> 
> After reading all the good posts in here, and because it sounds reasonable to me that this is not a short term effect substance (like it won't help you in the last week or so), what would he be taking this now for anyways? Would it be to help keeping from ballooning in the down time between fights?
> 
> And secondly, what does this do for cattle etc? I would have thought a farmer want his cattle to weigh as much as possible? :lol: Fug if I know..


It seems that the biggest benefit of taking this substance now is more to do with his airways/breathing for when he would go to Colorado. Clen is known for users to be able to lose weight but maintain muscle mass which I think they might think could be beneficial, thinking him to be too big against GGG. Obviously Canelo's biggest liability in his fights is his stamina so it's a perfect scenario where you can "use" or eat just enough to open your airways if you plan on going to high altitude to work on stamina. I'm not going so far to say it's no doubt intentional ingestion, but there's too many red flags right now, especially when Canelo has said he doesn't eat red meat during camps. So it's pretty weird that suddenly he has these sorts of levels of it in his system.


----------



## pipe wrenched (Jun 4, 2013)

Muff said:


> It seems that the biggest benefit of taking this substance now is more to do with his airways/breathing for when he would go to Colorado. Clen is known for users to be able to lose weight but maintain muscle mass which I think they might think could be beneficial, thinking him to be too big against GGG. Obviously Canelo's biggest liability in his fights is his stamina so it's a perfect scenario where you can "use" or eat just enough to open your airways if you plan on going to high altitude to work on stamina. I'm not going so far to say it's no doubt intentional ingestion, but there's too many red flags right now, especially when Canelo has said he doesn't eat red meat during camps. So it's pretty weird that suddenly he has these sorts of levels of it in his system.


Interesting...
Even tho I had read the parts about at lower doses it having effect on breathing, I had not thought at all about his going to Colorado...

* note to self.... 1+1=2 ... Dumb ass...

:lol:


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Muff said:


> It seems that the biggest benefit of taking this substance now is more to do with his airways/breathing for when he would go to Colorado. Clen is known for users to be able to lose weight but maintain muscle mass which I think they might think could be beneficial, thinking him to be too big against GGG. Obviously Canelo's biggest liability in his fights is his stamina so it's a perfect scenario where you can "use" or eat just enough to open your airways if you plan on going to high altitude to work on stamina. I'm not going so far to say it's no doubt intentional ingestion, but there's too many red flags right now, especially when Canelo has said he doesn't eat red meat during camps. So it's pretty weird that suddenly he has these sorts of levels of it in his system.


I read that Clen has a half life of a couple days max. Are we saying that Canelo completed a full cycle before hand just to prepare for his training camp, with year round random testing?


----------



## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

PEDrin1787. Case closed.

But jokes aside, what kind of dumb fuck decides to risk eating meat (in a country well known for being tainted) and lose a payday? How is that more likely than Canelo, who is known for weight cutting and stamina issues, taking the substance and blaming it on tainted meat if he gets caught?


----------



## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

It takes a huge leap in reason to believe this was some nefarious plan to get ahead.


----------



## scorpion (Jun 24, 2013)

https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-hand-wraps-golovkin-fight-illegal--125995

Well it looks like Canelo might have stacked his wraps too.
Fuck i'm sort of a fan but the closer we get to the fight the more i'm hoping Nelo gets KTFO.


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

scorpion said:


> https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-hand-wraps-golovkin-fight-illegal--125995
> 
> Well it looks like Canelo might have stacked his wraps too.
> Fuck i'm sort of a fan but the closer we get to the fight the more i'm hoping Nelo gets KTFO.


Well now there's some good excuses for GGG fans to latch on to when Canelo wins the fight, or laugh at when GGG wins the fight....

win win for ggg, lose lose for clenelo


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

scorpion said:


> https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-hand-wraps-golovkin-fight-illegal--125995
> 
> Well it looks like Canelo might have stacked his wraps too.
> Fuck i'm sort of a fan but the closer we get to the fight the more i'm hoping Nelo gets KTFO.


Sanchez says it's illegal and the commission tells him that they were legal the night of the fight and later on when he complained about it to them. I'll need somebody who knows more about hand wrapping to explain this one to me.

Sanchez's credibility is at 0 with me, so I'm not taking his word for shit.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

DynamicMoves said:


> PEDrin1787. Case closed.
> 
> But jokes aside, what kind of dumb fuck decides to risk eating meat (in a country well known for being tainted) and lose a payday? How is that more likely than Canelo, who is known for weight cutting and stamina issues, taking the substance and blaming it on tainted meat if he gets caught?


Who said the case was closed?

The traces found in his samples are within meat contamination range, and there are no real effective ways to tell, using only the urine sample, whether the substance came from a clenbuterol dose or meat.

The only thing I'm saying is that Canelo has the resources to use whatever he wants without testing dirty. The advantages he got from using the substance fucken weeks before his fight are minimal compared to the damage in bad publicity he's getting for testing positive. It makes no sense for him to rely on the tainted meat excuse.

It makes more sense to me that the dude had some meat, maybe from a source he knows and has had meat from before with no issues, thinking that there wouldn't be any issues.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

scorpion said:


> https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-hand-wraps-golovkin-fight-illegal--125995
> 
> Well it looks like Canelo might have stacked his wraps too.
> Fuck i'm sort of a fan but the closer we get to the fight the more i'm hoping Nelo gets KTFO.


Abels gonna ride that positive test hard. Can't really blame him.


----------



## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Who said the case was closed?
> 
> The traces found in his samples are within meat contamination range, and there are no real effective ways to tell, using only the urine sample, whether the substance came from a clenbuterol dose or meat.
> 
> ...


*PED*rin1787.

Yeah, I agree, he has resources, enough so he doesn't have to risk a payday by eating potentially contaminated meat "fucken weeks before his fight".


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

DynamicMoves said:


> *PED*rin1787.
> 
> Yeah, I agree, he has resources, enough so he doesn't have to risk a payday by eating potentially contaminated meat "fucken weeks before his fight".


I wish your posts were more dynamic.


----------



## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I wish your posts were more dynamic.


Me too. I've retired from being Dynamic, maybe I should change my name to StaticMoves.


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

DynamicMoves said:


> *PED*rin1787.
> 
> Yeah, I agree, he has resources, enough so he doesn't have to risk a payday by eating potentially contaminated meat "fucken weeks before his fight".


you know these dudes eat at moms house are you going to look like a bitch and question your mom and tell her you aren't going to eat her corner store carniceria meat because your too much of a pretentious little *** that only eats organic kobe beef from the most healthiest japanese specimens? or are you just going to enjoy that great birria, posole, menudo, tacos, burritos, tortas your momma made you?

gtfo here, you are over thinking this...


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I wish your posts were more dynamic.


bro, static/dynamic fields comes up in my job daily and that was such an awesome come back.... hahahah!


----------



## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

Doc said:


> you know these dudes eat at moms house are you going to look like a bitch and question your mom and tell her you aren't going to eat her corner store carniceria meat because your too much of a pretentious little *** that only eats organic kobe beef from the most healthiest japanese specimens? or are you just going to enjoy that great birria, posole, menudo, tacos, burritos, tortas your momma made you?
> 
> gtfo here, you are over thinking this...


Fuck man, if it was me in that situation my Mom would kick my ass if I was risking that kind of payday by eating tainted meat.
Don't know where you're getting "organic kobe beef from the most healthiest japanese specimens" from, there is plenty of untainted meat.


----------



## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

bballchump11 said:


> Sanchez says it's illegal and the commission tells him that they were legal the night of the fight and later on when he complained about it to them. I'll need somebody who knows more about hand wrapping to explain this one to me.
> 
> Sanchez's credibility is at 0 with me, so I'm not taking his word for shit.


http://checkhookboxing.com/index.php?threads/stacking-gauze-and-tape.48140/


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

A boxingscene thread opening post notes the following:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=774829

*Any amount of Clenbuterol is doping, says WADA*

Alberto Contador's lawyers will need to re-think their Tour de France doping defence. A WADA official reminded them that an athlete with any amount of the drug Clenbuterol is considered positive.

"Just because it's small doesn't mean it's not doping," WADA's Christiane Ayotte told the New York Times. "This is just the dopers adjusting or mis-adjusting to the testing."

Ayotte runs the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) lab outside of Montreal. She commented on the recent cases of athletes testing positive for small amounts of Clenbuterol. The drug helps breathing and weight loss.

Recent cases:
- China's Fuyu Li: 50-100 picograms
- Italy's Alessandro Colò: 200 picograms
- Spain's Alberto Contador: 50 picograms 
- Germany's Dimitrij Ovtcharov: 75 picograms 
- *Mexico's Saul "Canelo" Alvarez: 600-800 piocgrams*

Cyclists Li and Colò both received suspensions from their federations. Germany acquitted table tennis player Ovtcharov, but WADA has since appealed the decision. All of the athletes argued that the Clenbuterol came from eating contaminated beef.

The WADA lists Clenbuterol as a banned substance regardless of how it was ingested. Contador maintains his innocence and claims that the beef that his Astana team bought in Irún, Spain, caused the positive result.










0.6-0.8 nanogram = 600-800 picograms

It is alarming how the media tries to fool the public by calling it "*Just traces*" and alot of people just fall for it. All the previously mentioned athletes had much less Clenbuterol in their samples and yet got suspended, you have to wonder how much meat Canelo must have eaten to have 12-14 times the amount of Clenbuterol in his system?

In an article from GQ 18 months ago Canelo claimed that he wouldnt eat any red meat during training camp:

*The Real-Life Diet of Canelo Álvarez, Who Can't Eat Much*

Still, boxing has one huge piece of prep work that's easy to forget about: staying in your weight class. Weight is everything in boxing, and maintaining that number is a slog. "I eat bread only once a week," says Saúl "Canelo" Álvarez via a translator, "or maybe a serving of rice. But no more than once a week."

*Breakfast*
Egg whites with ham and orange juice

*Lunch*
Chicken with carrots, squash, broccoli and cauliflower

*Snacks*
Apples, cucumbers, grapes, jicama

*Dinner*
Protein shake with no carbs

read more: https://www.gq.com/story/canelo-alvarez-real-life-diet

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I haven't read him actually say he doesn't red meat, only the following.

"Routine is everything for me because boxing is very much driven by routine. It requires a certain kind of discipline to become a great boxer," says Alvarez, who wakes up at 6 a.m., trains for two hours, eats a lean breakfast, takes a quick power nap, and trains for another three hours. "I'm very disciplined about my diet when I train.* I only eat lean proteins and veggies, like salmon and veggies."* Part of the afternoon is also spent working out strategies for the next fight.

https://www.muscleandfitness.com/at...rez-prepares-epic-fight-julio-cesar-chavez-jr

Yet during the Cotto camp Reynoso is clearly preparing meat for them.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

Doc said:


> I'm unconvinced.


That's about as surprising as finding out that Hugh Hefner wasn't a virgin.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

First photos from Cotto's training camp have been released:


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> A boxingscene thread opening post notes the following:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


Any boxing related numbers from other athletes available?


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Doc said:


> Any boxing related numbers from other athletes available?


What for?


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Even more bizarre the WBA 'stands with canelo'. Ffs....


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> What for?


Boxers have different metabolic rates so amounts show up in 10-fold.


----------



## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

Canelo has the motive
Anybody important said he lost first fight
If he loses this his career is headn towards shitter
Known weight cutter
Known stamina issues


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

dyna said:


> Boxers have different metabolic rates so amounts show up in 10-fold.


Interesting


----------



## wow_junky (Jun 21, 2012)

dyna said:


> Boxers have different metabolic rates so amounts show up in 10-fold.


What? How does that work?


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> A boxingscene thread opening post notes the following:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


I see where Ayotte is coming from, if the meat you consumed is giving you full doses of clenbuterol thats pretty much the same as taking a dose, even if it was ingested via meat.

Still its up to the commision to determine the outcome, and it looks like they won't suspend anyone. Something I agree with considering the sport, I'd have to assume this substance gives cyclists more of an advantage than a boxer.

As far as Canelo's levels go, if you look at my post a few pages back you'll see that a study in 1995 resulted in levels of up to 850 picograms in humans that ate clenbuterol tainted meat. You can't completely rule out meat for Canelo's levels.


----------



## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

Why do athletes waste money on clenbuterol when they can just eat a dirty taco?


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Drunkenboat said:


> Why do athletes waste money on clenbuterol when they can just eat a dirty taco?


Judging by your avy, you probably have a dirty taco.


----------



## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Judging by your avy, you probably have a dirty taco.


You chose it, son.


----------



## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

GGG on the positive test.





Sanchez on the positive test.





Tom Loeffler on the hand wraps.


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

dyna said:


> Boxers have different metabolic rates so amounts show up in 10-fold.


Source or STFU


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Wait, what was the issue with the wraps?


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Wait, what was the issue with the wraps?


Served with tainted horse meat and a bed of lettuce.


----------



## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

Kurushi said:


> Wait, what was the issue with the wraps?


Was gauze then tape then gauze then tape. Called stacking, illegal in some states, might not be in others, kind of a grey area it seems.


----------



## LiL Boosie (Feb 9, 2014)

All this talk is nonsense

1. Fight is still happening, PERIOD

2. Team GGG running their mouths. If they have legit concerns, pull out of the fight. But guess what? They won't

If anything this will almost 1000% show Canelo is clean come fight night, cause he's going to get tested many, many times from now to May5th

Nothing to see here, fight will go on


----------



## Smirk (Dec 14, 2013)

Willful ignorance is a powerful thing but the shadow of malaise will certainly follow.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Smirk said:


> Willful ignorance is a powerful thing but the shadow of malaise will certainly follow.


Deep.


----------



## Smirk (Dec 14, 2013)

Financially Dependent Groups: We stand by Canelo!

Employees of Said Groups: Benefit of the doubt!

Idolizers:


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Smirk said:


> Financially Dependent Groups: We stand by Canelo!
> 
> Employees of Said Groups: Benefit of the doubt!
> 
> Idolizers:


Rational people:

:dberry


----------



## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

On second thought it looks pretty sketchy how in the article they are already chalking it up to be from tainted meat. And the fact that Canelo's camp would have know about that and could have avoided it. I don't know anything about peds and the levels in his system and all that shit. But who knows. Honestly if any top boxer tested positive for a ped i would not be surprised


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

One thing that annoys me is how quickly the commissions are to brush this away. Luis Ortiz vs Wilder was canceled right away and then Ortiz had to submit in proof afterward. Lamont Peterson got his rematch with Khan canceled and later had to get his doctor's note to clear his name. Canelo should have to at least submit something to the VADA, WBC, NSAC or somebody. I don't want any clouds over his win come May.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> One thing that annoys me is how quickly the commissions are to brush this away. Luis Ortiz vs Wilder was canceled right away and then Ortiz had to submit in proof afterward. Lamont Peterson got his rematch with Khan canceled and later had to get his doctor's note to clear his name. Canelo should have to at least submit something to the VADA, WBC, NSAC or somebody. I don't want any clouds over his win come May.


if wilder would have got caught i think the fight continues... preferential treatment is real in all aspects of life unfortunately.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> if wilder would have got caught i think the fight continues... preferential treatment is real in all aspects of life unfortunately.


Good point. At least he's moving his camp to Colorado now


----------



## Gully Foyle (May 7, 2016)

Boxing is business first and sport second. The way they gonna treat this issue will prove it. Canelo could have been juicing his balls out for 3 months, and just got off the needle in time for final leg of training camp, but we will never find out about it. WBC, NSAC, promoters they are all riding the gravy train, so they'll do everything to sweep it under the rug. GGG meanwhile needs to raise as much stink as possible and negotiate himself a better slice of the pie out of this mess. 

As for Canelo he must have felt it would give him that needed edge, draw was close, just little bit more stamina and he can win.


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Good point. At least he's moving his camp to Colorado now


last i heard colorado was cancelled and back to the regular spot of san Diego.. i could have sworn i saw an article but can no longer find.

maybe the clen and mask is all he needed to improve stamina as i was shocked to hear colorado was cancelled...

lets see how clenelo does without the high elevation training, he might be running same game plan with a little more volume.

hope im wrong colorado sounded like a good plan.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> last i heard colorado was cancelled and back to the regular spot of san Diego.. i could have sworn i saw an article but can no longer find.
> 
> maybe the clen and mask is all he needed to improve stamina as i was shocked to hear colorado was cancelled...
> 
> ...


He could have just avoided this all by hiring Heredia


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Anyone really think the super professional Team Canelo would fall into this accidentally? Mega million dollar fight, probably the biggest most significant fight that Canelos career will face.


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## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)




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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


>


I actually like Clenelo better if we are giving out names.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Anyone really think the super professional Team Canelo would fall into this accidentally? Mega million dollar fight, probably the biggest most significant fight that Canelos career will face.


To be fair, we all are talking shit, but Mexico is a bigass country with 127 million people. It's sweet for us behind a keyboard to just say that he should have shipped in all of his beef, but how many people really do that?


----------



## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> To be fair, we all are talking shit, but Mexico is a bigass country with 127 million people. It's sweet for us behind a keyboard to just say that he should have shipped in all of his beef, but how many people really do that?


It's just that as this issue with meat there is known, it is laughable to think that a multi millionaire with a massive team of experts around him and Golden Boy as his backers, would simply be eating at any old place in Mexico, knowing that he is on the verge of a mega fight, with drug tests coming and that the country they are eating in has a notorious problem with drugs getting into food.

The levels also indicate that it would have needed him to be eating kilos of contaminated meat.

He might be innocent, but it looks dodgy as fuck.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

wow_junky said:


> What? How does that work?





Bjj_Boxer said:


> Source or STFU


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Strike said:


> It's just that as this issue with meat there is known, it is laughable to think that a multi millionaire with a massive team of experts around him and Golden Boy as his backers, would simply have him eating at any old place in Mexico knowing that he is on the verge of a mega fight, with drug tests coming and that the country they are eating in has a notorious problem with drugs getting into food.
> 
> The levels also indicate that it would have needed him to be eating kilos of contaminated meat.
> 
> He might be innocent, but it looks dodgy as fuck.


Yeah I ultimately agree, but it's just a shitty situation all around. Hopefully the Olympic committee get on Mexico over this.


----------



## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> Yeah I ultimately agree, but it's just a shitty situation all around. Hopefully the Olympic committee get on Mexico over this.


Aye, I am never going to get on board with the idea that "everyone is doping", but a situation like this just reeks.


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

dyna said:


>


T'was a shitty joke


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Doc said:


> I actually like Clenelo better if we are giving out names.


How about Alvaroids?


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Smirk said:


> Willful ignorance is a powerful thing but the shadow of malaise will certainly follow.


We will not go quietly into the night.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=408294849614949


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## nvs (May 16, 2013)




----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)




----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

nvs said:


>


:lol::clap


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## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

From BoxingScene:

" *I've watched him since 2010 when he fought Cotto's brother. I have openly said that he was a HOF because of the tough fights he has taken. But if you look at him in 2010 in that Cotto fight in which he was hurt, you see a skilled young man but not quite as explosive and electric. Fighters have the right to improve&#8230;. But he struggled in some fights around that time. He couldn't stop a smaller Lovemore Ndou and Alphonso Gomez gave him a scrap with a controversial ending. I noticed they wanted Canelo to be a welterweight and he just couldn't make the weight. He fought his title shot at junior middleweight at a catchweight. That was some serious privilege to get your 1st title shot at a catchweight vs a welterweight. My point is making weight has always seemed to be an issue with him.*

*Then in around 2012 he became much more explosive and dense. He did a number on Cintron and Mosley. I'm not saying he was on anything but I am saying his improvement wasn't gradual it was very noticeable. In 2015 by the time he fought the HOF Cotto, Canelo was a full fledged monster hovering around 155lbs. His body and performances looked awesome in my opinion. Again fighters have a right to improve but when one test positive for a PED it causes speculation."*


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Drunkenboat said:


> From BoxingScene:
> 
> " *I've watched him since 2010 when he fought Cotto's brother. I have openly said that he was a HOF because of the tough fights he has taken. But if you look at him in 2010 in that Cotto fight in which he was hurt, you see a skilled young man but not quite as explosive and electric. Fighters have the right to improve&#8230;. But he struggled in some fights around that time. He couldn't stop a smaller Lovemore Ndou and Alphonso Gomez gave him a scrap with a controversial ending. I noticed they wanted Canelo to be a welterweight and he just couldn't make the weight. He fought his title shot at junior middleweight at a catchweight. That was some serious privilege to get your 1st title shot at a catchweight vs a welterweight. My point is making weight has always seemed to be an issue with him.*
> 
> *Then in around 2012 he became much more explosive and dense. He did a number on Cintron and Mosley. I'm not saying he was on anything but I am saying his improvement wasn't gradual it was very noticeable. In 2015 by the time he fought the HOF Cotto, Canelo was a full fledged monster hovering around 155lbs. His body and performances looked awesome in my opinion. Again fighters have a right to improve but when one test positive for a PED it causes speculation."*


canelo has always been explosive and has struggled with movers... even in recent times guys such as khan made him look normal until he got caught with a huge punch... he went toe to toe with cotto and only managed a nice boxing exhibition, no magical clen making him look awesone, its the matchmaking, the guys who excelled against are those who play into his style including GGG...


----------



## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

Doc said:


> canelo has always been explosive and has struggled with movers... even in recent times guys such as khan made him look normal until he got caught with a huge punch... he went toe to toe with cotto and only managed a nice boxing exhibition, no magical clen making him look awesone, its the matchmaking, the guys who excelled against are those who play into his style including GGG...


Why did he lose against GGG in your opinion?


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

https://www.boxingscene.com/wbc-doctor-on-canelo-everything-points-contamination--126163

Canelo and his team have claimed food contamination as the root cause for the positive tests. The boxer has taken more recent tests, which came up negative for the drug.

Antonio Fernández Hernandez, who is a doctor for the WBC, has reviewed the facts of the incident and he believes it's clearly a case of food contamination.

At the same time, Hernandez believes Canelo's handlers should have been more careful - especially since the issue of clenbuteral is well known in Mexico.

"Canelo has everything at hand... doctors, nutritionists, a physical trainer, so this is an oversight. The amount [of clenbuteral] they found is very little, it was an accident, a mistake by his team.. because he probably ingested contaminated meat," explained Hernandez.

"I have to clarify something, clenbuterol is a hormone that helps eliminate fat and increase muscle. However, the amount that was found in Canelo was minimal, which means that it's a feeding problem and his team is responsible. We have to remember that this is not the first time [that this has happened to an athlete in Mexico.]

"Take into account that in Mexico almost all of meat is contaminated, so athletes must consume select meat. If anyone is tested, he will come up with detectable levels of clenbuterol [after eating a contaminated meal], and this time it was Canelo's turn and that is why there is so much noise."


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

So if Canelo's team showed negligence, shouldn't they face some penalty?


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

His levels of clenbuterol we're still off the charts.


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

Too much money to be made for this to not be swept under the rug.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> So if Canelo's team showed negligence, shouldn't they face some penalty?


They should.
His levels were high enough that they mimicked therapeutic doses.
By not punishing Canelo the anti-doping bodies are basically saying it's fine to get caught with Clenbuterol as long as you have an excuse ready.

And the WBC has shown a lot of bias towards Mexican fighters in the near past (including giving Arreola unlimited title shots) it doesn't really surprise me that a doctor for the WBC with a Mexican sounding name is excusing one of his fellow countrymen.
And it doesn't even have to be a case Mexican bias, Povetkin went from an indefinite ban to being the face of the We Be Clean program within a year. Stiverne also failed a test and was cleared almost directly.

https://www.badlefthook.com/2017/11...red-by-wbc-will-return-to-rankings-in-january

Basically the WBC is crooked as fuck, even without potential Mexican bias.
Their doctor clearing Canelo has no meaning at all.


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> So if Canelo's team showed negligence, shouldn't they face some penalty?


Yes, chepo should be banned from ever singing a song leading up to a fight during press conferences, interviews, and documentaries.


----------



## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

Drunkenboat said:


> From BoxingScene:
> 
> " *I've watched him since 2010 when he fought Cotto's brother. I have openly said that he was a HOF because of the tough fights he has taken. But if you look at him in 2010 in that Cotto fight in which he was hurt, you see a skilled young man but not quite as explosive and electric. Fighters have the right to improve&#8230;. But he struggled in some fights around that time. He couldn't stop a smaller Lovemore Ndou and Alphonso Gomez gave him a scrap with a controversial ending. I noticed they wanted Canelo to be a welterweight and he just couldn't make the weight. He fought his title shot at junior middleweight at a catchweight. That was some serious privilege to get your 1st title shot at a catchweight vs a welterweight. My point is making weight has always seemed to be an issue with him.*
> 
> *Then in around 2012 he became much more explosive and dense. He did a number on Cintron and Mosley. I'm not saying he was on anything but I am saying his improvement wasn't gradual it was very noticeable. In 2015 by the time he fought the HOF Cotto, Canelo was a full fledged monster hovering around 155lbs. His body and performances looked awesome in my opinion. Again fighters have a right to improve but when one test positive for a PED it causes speculation."*


He may be guilty of doping...but this comes off stupid, really stupid. I cringe to ask but who is the genius who shared this wisdom?


----------



## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

Drunkenboat said:


> Why did he lose against GGG in your opinion?


Here we go with the "I don't like the result, so I'm just going to make one up and expect everyone to pretend it's what happened"...great argument, these are always fun.


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## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> His levels of clenbuterol we're still off the charts.


But they weren't though...


----------



## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

Reppin501 said:


> Here we go with the "I don't like the result, so I'm just going to make one up and expect everyone to pretend it's what happened"...great argument, these are always fun.


Everybody who is anybody said GGG won. It was a close fight, but a fight GGG clearly won. We went over it round by round after the fight.


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## Kobayashi Maru (Mar 13, 2018)

Drunkenboat said:


> Everybody who is anybody said GGG won. It was a close fight, but a fight GGG clearly won. We went over it round by round after the fight.


Canelo landed the cleaner shots but Golovkin landed the greater volume and was the one on the front foot. Who won is entirely subjective, this isn't the olympics but Golovkin did enough to win in my book. These findings will not wash however and all Canelo's fights past and future will now have a tainted cloud over them.


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

To the people saying Canelo’s past fights are now suspect: how exactly would this stuff help him? Would it improve his stamina? Because honestly, I’ve never noticed any sudden improvement in his stamina at all. It’s been noticeably one of his biggest weakness. 

And I don’t even like Canelo.


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## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

Reppin501 said:


> But they weren't though...


Compared to others who have gotten busted for Clen, his levels were way over theirs. So either he ate an insane amount of meat or he somehow got a very concentrated dose. Either is highly unlikely.


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## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> To the people saying Canelo's past fights are now suspect: how exactly would this stuff help him? Would it improve his stamina? Because honestly, I've never noticed any sudden improvement in his stamina at all. It's been noticeably one of his biggest weakness.
> 
> And I don't even like Canelo.


Hes known for weight advantages, catch weights and weight cutting


----------



## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> To the people saying Canelo's past fights are now suspect: how exactly would this stuff help him? Would it improve his stamina? Because honestly, I've never noticed any sudden improvement in his stamina at all. It's been noticeably one of his biggest weakness.
> 
> And I don't even like Canelo.


In my experience Clen isnt a great choice for improving stamina, in bodybuilding circles it's used to lose fat which when you're a big fighter for your weight it can be useful. @V-2


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Drunkenboat said:


> Hes known for weight advantages, catch weights and weight cutting


That is true, however, I've always felt that all that weight cutting has been one of the major reasons for his stamina problems.


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## V-2 (Jan 1, 2017)

Dazl1212 said:


> In my experience Clen isnt a great choice for improving stamina, in bodybuilding ciorcles its used to lose fat which when you're a big fighter for your weight it can be useful. @V-2





V-2 said:


> Clen is more anti-catabolic than necessarily anabolic though. You aren't getting jacked on fucking clenbuterol and if you're already out of shape it isn't going to do much for fat loss either, the side effects (shakes, heart palpitations, cramps if you don't supplement large doses of taurine) can actually be quite detrimental to stamina as well. It's a drug for already-fit athletic people either trying to shed last bits of stubborn body fat and/or maintain their strength and lean mass while cutting weight on a caloric deficit.
> 
> Pretty meh, it certainly isn't serious enough (to me) for it to impact whether or not I give Canelo credit for a hypothetical win over Golovkin and that'll have been due to his boxing ability and skills anyway. People get pretty hysterical over this shit and what they decide is up to them but I mean _it is_ on the banned substances list, so.


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## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

Its whether he could make weight without it that's the issue for me. It'll enable him to keep his calories low without going into starvation mode.


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## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> That is true, however, I've always felt that all that weight cutting has been one of the major reasons for his stamina problems.


The two are not mutually exclusive.


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## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

2manyusernames said:


> The two are not mutually exclusive.


This


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

The more I think on this, the more I think team Clenelo did this on purpose, to TRY to get banned for a while.

Think about it: He has almost no chance of beating Golovkin, and an official loss would do massive harm to his drawing power. Best for them to say "Gosh darn it, we really REALLY wanted the rematch, but this BS drug ban.... Oh, darn it all..... "

Then they still do the re-match later on, once the ban is lifted and Golovkin is even older and slower.


Brilliant.


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## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

Conspiracy theorists...............LOL


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## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

It's already been proven by many experts that Canelo is innocent. Just do the fucking research smh. Let me help you out...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7711351 " Experiments in animals with oral clenbuterol have shown augmentation in muscle bulk across numerous species, but human studies cannot confirm similar muscle mass enlargement in healthy men"

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/106002809502900114?journalCode=aopd "Despite the lack of EVIDENCE in human trials...."





 For the Spanish homies. You're welcome..













You're welcome!


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## ashishwarrior (Jul 10, 2012)

If only we could do this to athletes




Clanelo be like wtf man come on hurry


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## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

BobDigi5060 said:


> His levels of clenbuterol we're still off the charts.


No they were not you fool! That's because you're using picograms. That's like you telling a chick that your dick is 100 millimeters long, just to make it sound like it's big. Eventually when she see's it, she will realize you have a 4 INCH dick.


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## ashishwarrior (Jul 10, 2012)

MEXAMELAC said:


> No they were not you fool! That's because you're using picograms. That's like you telling a chick that your dick is 100 millimeters long, just to make it sound like it's big. Eventually when she see's it, she will realize you have a 4 INCH dick.


Ssshhh I don't want my lady seeing theses boards
Hush man
I have been getting away with it for years 
We switched form metric you see 
She was confused with it all


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> It's already been proven by many experts that Canelo is innocent. *Just do the fucking research smh. Let me help you out...*
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7711351 " Experiments in animals with oral clenbuterol have shown augmentation in muscle bulk across numerous species, but human studies cannot confirm similar muscle mass enlargement in healthy men"
> 
> ...


1. Nobody is taking Clen to increase muscle mass.

2. Those studies don't prove innocence whatsoever.
Let's use EPO as an example.

https://www.wiley.com//WileyCDA/PressRelease/pressReleaseId-106621.html
"*EPO Doping in Elite Cycling: No Evidence of Benefit, But High Risk of Harm*"

Does that mean that everybody who has been caught with EPO is innocent because 1 or 2 studies couldn't find evidence of it having any benefit at all?

The concentration which Canelo tested positive at was also consistent with therapeutic doses.

Clen is most commonly used either for breathing or weight loss.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

dyna said:


> Let's use EPO as an example.
> 
> https://www.wiley.com//WileyCDA/PressRelease/pressReleaseId-106621.html
> "*EPO Doping in Elite Cycling: No Evidence of Benefit, But High Risk of Harm*"
> ...


If its possible to test positive for EPO due to eating meat from the local livestock it's at least questionable.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> If its possible to test positive for EPO due to eating meat from the local livestock it's at least questionable.


Look at the exact argument MEXAMELAC made or at least tried to imply.
"It's already been proven by many experts that Canelo is innocent. Just do the fucking research smh. _Let me help you out_..."
He then proceeds to link 1 article that states there's no evidence for Clen increasing muscle mass in humans and 1 study that says there's no evidence of Clen increasing performance.

Thus he implies that Canelo is innocent by making an argument for Clen not actually enhancing anything.
You can replace Canelo in that post with somebody who tested positive for EPO and replace the studies about Clen with studies about EPO and you have the exact same argument.
And it could be any other substance on the banned list, with EPO I just know there are studies that show no benefit.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

dyna said:


> Look at the exact argument MEXAMELAC made or at least tried to imply.
> "It's already been proven by many experts that Canelo is innocent. Just do the fucking research smh. _Let me help you out_..."
> He then proceeds to link 1 article that states there's no evidence for Clen increasing muscle mass in humans and 1 study that says there's no evidence of Clen increasing performance.
> 
> ...


Without EPO beef I don't see how they'd be the same argument.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

@dyna you're on form in this thread mate. Is this a particular area of interest of yours?


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> @dyna you're on form in this thread mate. Is this a particular area of interest of yours?


Just a broken clock that's right from time to time.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

Gotta love when people ask, "What indication is there that a _performance enhancing_ drug enhances someone's performance?" It's in the damn title, FFS!


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

dyna said:


> 1. Nobody is taking Clen to increase muscle mass.
> 
> 2. Those studies don't prove innocence whatsoever.
> Let's use EPO as an example.
> ...


Using EPO as an example makes no sense because EPO has no relevance to the contamination in meat in Mexico. If he had failed a PED test for EPO, then they'd be talking about something completely different and the amount found in his body could also be different. Long story short, I'm going to go with what the studies say and what REAL scientist think, who are experts in PED's. Not info based on some random poster or examples that have nothing to do with Clen. There's an investigation going right now and eventually they will get to the bottom of things. But based on the reports, the opinions of experts, the timing, the trace amounts and what Clen is, I highly doubt he's guilty. So this isn't necessarily "MY ARGUMENT". I'm presenting legitimate facts and info that can help people understand the situation and what we're dealing with here.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> Using EPO as an example makes no sense because EPO has no relevance to the contamination in meat in Mexico. If he had failed a PED test for EPO, then they'd be talking about something completely different and the amount found in his body could also be different. Long story short, I'm going to go with what the studies say and what REAL scientist think, who are experts in PED's. Not info based on some random poster or examples that have nothing to do with Clen. There's an investigation going right now and eventually they will get to the bottom of things. But based on the reports, the opinions of experts, the timing, the trace amounts and what Clen is, I highly doubt he's guilty. So this isn't necessarily "MY ARGUMENT". I'm presenting legitimate facts and info that can help people understand the situation and what we're dealing with here.


You aren't representing facts, one of the tests had Canelo testing 600 picograms, that's clearly consistent with therapeutic doses.
If that's a "trace" amount then it's simply not possible to differentiate tainted meat and somebody who's actually using Clen.
And of course investigations... Povetkin only had to wait 9 months to become the face of the We Be Clean program after his 2nd failed test. Stiverne's positive test was also swepped under the rug because testing positive from fitness pills is 100% fine of course.

Here are some others who tested positive and Canelo

Recent cases:
- Fuyu Li: 50-100 picograms
- Alessandro Colò: 200 picograms
- Alberto Contador: 50 picograms
- Dimitrij Ovtcharov: 75 picograms
- Canelo Alvarez: 600-800 piocgrams

Fuyu Li lives in a country that also frequently has Clen contimation in meat, yet his amounts were at the very least 6 times as low as Canelo's. That's besides Canelo saying in the past that he eats barely if any beef. :lol:

Also you used studies to make the argument that since Clen doesn't build muscle (nobody uses it for that) and that there's no evidence of a performance enhancing effect that therefore Canelo must be innocent. (besides the fact that Clen is most commonly used for weight loss)
Of course you can just replace Clen in that example with EPO and then transform the excuse into somebody slipping EPO pills in your water.
"why would I use EPO, somebody poisoned me. There aren't even studies that show it enhances performance"


----------



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

dyna said:


> You aren't representing facts, one of the tests had Canelo testing 600 picograms, that's clearly consistent with therapeutic doses.
> If that's a "trace" amount then it's simply not possible to differentiate tainted meat and somebody who's actually using Clen.
> And of course investigations... Povetkin only had to wait 9 months to become the face of the We Be Clean program after his 2nd failed test. Stiverne's positive test was also swepped under the rug because testing positive from fitness pills is 100% fine of course.
> 
> ...


Hey, maybe Mexican meat is just 6 times better than Chinese meat. :bart


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

dyna said:


> You aren't representing facts, one of the tests had Canelo testing 600 picograms, that's clearly consistent with therapeutic doses.
> If that's a "trace" amount then it's simply not possible to differentiate tainted meat and somebody who's actually using Clen.
> And of course investigations... Povetkin only had to wait 9 months to become the face of the We Be Clean program after his 2nd failed test. Stiverne's positive test was also swepped under the rug because testing positive from fitness pills is 100% fine of course.
> 
> ...


Dude you're writing waaaaaaaay too much for something that's real simple lol. At the end of the day, you can believe whatever you want. That "picograms" argument has been debunked many times already. Watch the videos I posted. Do you even realize what a picogram is? Seems to me that you're really sensitive about this issue and trying real, real hard to present an argument based on pseudo science that's been recycled a million times. I've seen that elementary crap a week ago. If you believe you know more than Victor Conte and Heredia than good for you bro :clap. I used an example of this earlier. All you're doing is telling chicks that your dick is 100 millimeters long but it's still 4 inches atsch. Do you not understand how small 600 picograms are? Do you have the info of when these dudes were tested and how long Clen was in their system when those measures were taken? You're missing the whole point. You haven't provided SHIT but the same recycled argument that most fools have been using the past week .:lol: That shit is all over twitter. And stick to Clen. You can talk about Steroids and EPO and HGH with your buddies at home when you're dissecting cockroaches later. This is about Clen and nothing more. Update your shit already :thumbsup.

By the way, nice Pic of Justin Gatlin. The guy who was banned for PED use. Is he the one who motivated you to become a PED expert? He must have taught you a lot about picograms eh? :lol:


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> Dude you're writing waaaaaaaay too much for something that's real simple lol. At the end of the day, you can believe whatever you want. That "picograms" argument has been debunked many times already. Watch the videos I posted. Do you even realize what a picogram is? Seems to me that you're really sensitive about this issue and trying real, real hard to present an argument based on pseudo science that's been recycled a million times. I've seen that elementary crap a week ago. If you believe you know more than Victor Conte and Heredia than good for you bro :clap. I used an example of this earlier. All you're doing is telling chicks that your dick is 100 millimeters long but it's still 4 inches atsch. Do you not understand how small 600 picograms are? Do you have the info of when these dudes were tested and how long Clen was in their system when those measures were taken? You're missing the whole point. You haven't provided SHIT but the same recycled argument that most fools have been using the past week .:lol: That shit is all over twitter. And stick to Clen. You can talk about Steroids and EPO and HGH with your buddies at home when you're dissecting cockroaches later. This is about Clen and nothing more. Update your shit already :thumbsup.
> 
> By the way, nice Pic of Justin Gatlin. The guy who was banned for PED use. Is he the one who motivated you to become a PED expert? He must have taught you a lot about picograms eh? :lol:


600 picograms is 0.6 ng.
And 0.6ng is consistent with therapeutic doses.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4045696

"Therapeutic dose (20, 40 and 80 micrograms/man) of clenbuterol hydrochloride, a beta 2-adrenergic stimulant, was orally administered to healthy volunteers, and the unmetabolized drug in plasma and urine was determined by enzyme immunoassay. The plasma levels of clenbuterol reached the maximum value of 0.1, 0.2 and 0.35 ng/ml, respectively, in a dose-dependent manner within 2.5 h, which lasted for over 6 h after the administration. The half-life of clenbuterol in plasma was estimated to be about 35 h. When the drug was orally administered repeatedly to men twice a day, the plasma level reached the plateau within 4 d after the initial administration. At that time, the plasma levels of the unchanged form were 0.2 to 0.3 ng/ml and 0.5 to 0.6 ng/ml at doses of 20 and 40 micrograms/man, respectively."

You can keep on repeating the same thing over and over again like you're the Mexican Trump but at the end of the day, 0.6ng is consistent with therapeutic doses.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

dyna said:


> 600 picograms is 0.6 ng.
> And 0.6ng is consistent with therapeutic doses.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4045696
> ...


 Again another outdated argument LOL! I saw that on YT like a week ago LOL. All of the answers to your outdated sources are explained in the video I posted above. I'm not going to sit here and explain the whole shit to you. All the info is there for you to put the puzzle together. Showing me stuff that doesn't coincide with Canelo's case makes absolutely no sense going over. It's OBVIOUS that you cant read and you continue to post studies that have nothing to do with Canelo. Do you even read what you post, or do you just get stuff from YT and twitter and recycle this garbage over and over? Did you take the time to read the dosages and how it was administered and how that compares to Canelo and his levels? You don't even understand what you're arguing LOL

http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/...drug-clenbuterol-ahead-gennady-golovkin-fight

The full report is in that article.








"THESE VALUES ARE ALL WITHIN THE RANGE OF WHAT IS EXPECTED FROM MEAT CONTAMINATION". That's the report from Dr. Daniel Eichner

Victor Conte (VADA ADVISER) when asked if he believes Canelo "Yes I do, because these are trace amounts...you need to UNDERSTAND (which obviously you don't), that trace is considered parts for millions....so these are way, way down...these are VERY low concentrations"

Memo Heredia (PED Expert) " Based on the studies and the amounts Canelo had, the traces were EXTREMELY low. IMO Canelo is innocent. We are talking about Clen that has a half life of approximately 28-36Hrs. Taking this into account, and doing calculations, plus urinary concentrations, the traces are so low that it is not possible that Canelo could have taken a pill of that amount 1 day or 5 days prior. The report stated (see above) that the levels were 0.6-0.8 ng/ml and then 0.06-0.08 ng/ml and what does that mean? It means that it is IMPOSSIBLE...IMPOSSIBLE for Canelo to have taken this substance, days prior with less than a nanogram in his urine. Based on these facts, Canelo didn't take anything illegal and it was meat contamination"

Do not fucking understand what they are saying? You need to forget about your PICOgrams and understand that it means nothing because we are talking about a specific case in Canelo, with a specific time frame and a specific dosage. Unless you know this, you will NOT comprehend shit...which is your case. What makes this even more pathetic, is that I know for a FACT you're using arguments that have been posted at least a WEEK ago. The irrelevant article you just posted above and the stupid Picograms have been out there for at least a fucking week and they have been explained and debunked, but yet you're still using the same shit. Why? Well that's because YOU don't even understand what you're posting. Instead of being a hard head hater, just read the facts and listen to the experts. None of these people have connections with Canelo nor are they part of his camp and these guys are KNOWN PED experts who have been doing this for years illegally. Unless something NEW comes up during the investigation (info you clearly don't have), Canelo will not be found guilty because that elementary argument you've been recycling does not apply to him, nor is it relevant to his case. If Canelo is guilty, we will all find out eventually. And if you don't care about the info presented or the analysis of people who actually know this shit, then it doesn't matter because nobody will convince you. Just let it go already and let things take its course.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Hey, Memo & Conte say they believe Canelo! 

And somebody found one doctor to put the best possible light on it, that light being "further investigation is needed." The doctor then went on to say "Hey, thanks for the new Mercedes!" 


Well, that settles it then!


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

This video from September 2017 looks awfully prophetic now:


----------



## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Problem is it doesnt matter about the dosage these guys use masking agents, Povetkin managed to get away with it once lol


----------



## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

Dyna kicking some ass in this thread
:nasir


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## Brownies (Jun 7, 2013)

I don't have time to read the whole 15 pages, so I'm sure a link to this article has been posted, but here it is anyway : 
*Adverse analytical findings with clenbuterol among U-17 soccer players attributed to food contamination issues.*

I thought the good ol' food contamination argument was sketchy at first, but there's seems to be a lot of clenbuterol in Mexican meat, specifically. 30 percent of the meat they analyzed was contaminated with the drug and they had trouble finding U-17 mexican soccer teams who didn't have contaminated players. So, guilty or not. I think the correct answer is we don't know.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Brownies said:


> I think the correct answer is we don't know.


That's where I'm at with it. I'm pissed off with the WBC and NSAC that they're just accepting the excuse with no fight. The burden should be on Canelo to at least attempt to prove that he ate contaminated meat. And if that excuse is accepted, he needs to pay a fine for negligence in my opinion.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Cableaddict said:


> Hey, Memo & Conte say they believe Canelo!
> 
> And somebody found one doctor to put the best possible light on it, that light being "further investigation is needed." The doctor then went on to say "Hey, thanks for the new Mercedes!"
> 
> Well, that settles it then!


No you're right. I rather believe Cableaddict because you always have great insight and info regarding Clen. Your speculations and assumptions disprove any science or anything any PED expert says. Just because it's you right?





. This dude probably got a Mercedes as well.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

bballchump11 said:


> That's where I'm at with it. I'm pissed off with the WBC and NSAC that they're just accepting the excuse with no fight. The burden should be on Canelo to at least attempt to prove that he ate contaminated meat. And if that excuse is accepted, he needs to pay a fine for negligence in my opinion.


You do realize that they are investigating it right now right? And that Canelo already stated that he's cooperating with the investigation?


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Brownies said:


> I don't have time to read the whole 15 pages, so I'm sure a link to this article has been posted, but here it is anyway :
> *Adverse analytical findings with clenbuterol among U-17 soccer players attributed to food contamination issues.*
> 
> I thought the good ol' food contamination argument was sketchy at first, but there's seems to be a lot of clenbuterol in Mexican meat, specifically. 30 percent of the meat they analyzed was contaminated with the drug and they had trouble finding U-17 mexican soccer teams who didn't have contaminated players. So, guilty or not. I think the correct answer is we don't know.


Just in case you missed it as well. there were more than 100 players who failed drug test for Clen during that World Cup from DIFFERENT COUNTRIES. The World Cup was in Mexico by the way. All of them were exonerated.


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## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

A.C.S said:


> Problem is it doesnt matter about the dosage these guys use masking agents, Povetkin managed to get away with it once lol


Povetkin did not take Clen and the reason Povektin "got away with it" is because the drug he used was not included in the list of banned substances. Povetkin later failed another test for an ANABOLIC STEROID. It actually helps to read about stuff before commenting. :thumbsup


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> You do realize that they are investigating it right now right? And that Canelo already stated that he's cooperating with the investigation?


Right when Canelo was busted, within seconds everybody in charge just said "Oh yeah it's the meat. Nothing to see here". Well it may possibly well be the meat, but I'd say the burden of proof is on Canelo. Berto tested positive for a drug and had a very small amount in his system. He claimed it was contamination, but they canceled the fight and suspended him.

Like I said, if they're just going to accept Canelo's excuse of meat contamination, I'd at least like to see him pay a fine for negligence. This is an open invitation to every fighter to train in Mexico and juice.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

MEXAMELAC said:


> Povetkin did not take Clen and the reason Povektin "got away with it" is because the drug he used was not included in the list of banned substances. Povetkin later failed another test for an ANABOLIC STEROID. It actually helps to read about stuff before commenting. :thumbsup


Still doesnt go against my point these guys use masking agents and Clen is out the system fast and Povetkin tested positive for Meldonium which was banned from January you retard helps to read up before commenting lol


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Drunkenboat said:


> Dyna kicking some ass in this thread
> :nasir


Not really, he keeps on saying the same thing over and over as if it proves something, he gave good info but it doesn't prove anything at all.

Is Canelos 600 - 800 pg/ml possible via meat contamination?
*Yes
*
Do we have a clear way, as of today, to differentiate between ingestion of clenbuterol via contaminated meat and tablet form?
*No
*
You could go on all day about the cyclists testing for lower doses, but if you look at Canelo's 20-FEB sample, he matches their levels. How do we know when these guys ingested the clen?

Not to mention the U17 soccer players that tested as high as 1556 pg/ml (almost double Canelo's) when they were at a tournament in Mexico. None of them were banned due to the high number of positive tests.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Brownies said:


> I don't have time to read the whole 15 pages, so I'm sure a link to this article has been posted, but here it is anyway :
> *Adverse analytical findings with clenbuterol among U-17 soccer players attributed to food contamination issues.*
> 
> I thought the good ol' food contamination argument was sketchy at first, but there's seems to be a lot of clenbuterol in Mexican meat, specifically. 30 percent of the meat they analyzed was contaminated with the drug and they had trouble finding U-17 mexican soccer teams who didn't have contaminated players. So, guilty or not. I think the correct answer is we don't know.


I brought this up multiple times but it doesn't fit the narritive so....


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## Brownies (Jun 7, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I brought this up multiple times but it doesn't fit the narritive so....


I'm tired of the meat excuse, but in this case I'm OK with it. There are too many articles published before Canelo was busted that agree with the prevalence of clenbuterol in mexican meat to put too much doubt on it. I mean, even the NFL warned its players against mexican and chinese meat because of it.


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Brownies said:


> I'm tired of the meat excuse, but in this case I'm OK with it. There are too many articles published before Canelo was busted that agree with the prevalence of clenbuterol in mexican meat to put too much doubt on it. I mean, even the NFL warned its players against mexican and chinese meat because of it.


If only Canelo had received the same warning, right?


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

dyna said:


> Look at the exact argument MEXAMELAC made or at least tried to imply.
> "It's already been proven by many experts that Canelo is innocent. Just do the fucking research smh. _Let me help you out_..."
> He then proceeds to link 1 article that states there's no evidence for Clen increasing muscle mass in humans and 1 study that says there's no evidence of Clen increasing performance.
> 
> ...


What you will notice, all the WADA director did was say it's consistent with eating contaminated meats. He didn't say that's what it was, just that it's consistent. Saul's tests are also consistent with someone cycling off the clen. Which should be addressed IMO. But it seems many are trying to suggest the director's statement as a justification, or end of investigation statement. Which it is neither of.


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## Brownies (Jun 7, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> If only Canelo had received the same warning, right?


I'm saying he might have farted, but he farted on a farm next to 25 cows, so what can you do ?


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## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Brownies said:


> I'm saying he might have farted, but he farted on a farm next to 25 cows, so what can you do ?


Shit somewhere else...


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

The only quantifiable way to find out if clen has any effect is for one of our own, that is, @Strike , to record himself doing a Max bench and squat, record the weights, go to Mexico and stuff down their meat and when he comes back, record how much his bench and squats has improved or not. Naked pics of his girlfriend before and after would also help in this important and useful information.


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## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

dyna said:


> ... like you're the Mexican Trump ...


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## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> You do realize that they are investigating it right now right?


Here's the lead "investigator" hard at work:


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## Kid Cubano (Jun 5, 2013)

Someone once told me: everybody is getting juiced in boxing, one way or another.Just some people get catch when using the wrong stuff at the wrong time.Low profile boxers sometimes get caught with the cheap stuff easy to track. High profile boxers have the money to get the good stuff hard to track.
Personally i don't see Canelo intentionally getting into something as basic as clenbuterol unless they were already counting on the mexican meat story.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

You have to wonder how bad this issue has mentally set back 'Nelo in camp.

Just saw him training and thought sure ly he must be distracted by all this.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1965463380148130


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## Kid Cubano (Jun 5, 2013)

A question to my mexicans friends:
If we run an aleatory test on mexican population, will everyone will test positive to clenbuterol? assuming people selected are regular meat consumers. And assuming regular people doesn't have access to prime /expensive meat probably free of drugs or organic.


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/976623558385217538


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

nuclear said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/976623558385217538


Both sound pissed, Canelo that his dumb ass team and himself allowed this to happen and the shit storm is has created towards his image. GGG for seeing that a opponent which he struggled to beat for the first time in many dozens fights may have cheated with steroids...

both are going to come in with mixed feelings and we'll see who has the fire burning inside them more.

Can't wait, this has the taken the big drama show to a new level.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Kid Cubano said:


> Someone once told me: everybody is getting juiced in boxing, one way or another.Just some people get catch when using the wrong stuff at the wrong time.Low profile boxers sometimes get caught with the cheap stuff easy to track. High profile boxers have the money to get the good stuff hard to track.
> Personally i don't see Canelo intentionally getting into something as basic as clenbuterol unless they were already counting on the mexican meat story.


Don't assume Canelo's team knows what the fuck they're doing, just because they have a large bankroll.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I hope Canelo gets his credit when he knocks out GGG


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Fuck Canelo, remember he avoided the fight for years lol. 

Son of a bitch.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Well the silver lining is that now the build-up isn't the boring go-through-the-motions promotion I thought it would be.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

No surprise some choose to root for a drug cheat over a clean fighter.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Mal said:


> No surprise some choose to root for a drug cheat over a clean fighter.


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## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-temporarily-suspended-by-nsac-due-failed-tests--126500


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

I have to wonder if Canelo will even worry about it. He'd probably just end up moving the fight to Texas if the suspension really sticks.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Muff said:


> https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-temporarily-suspended-by-nsac-due-failed-tests--126500


They read @Mal posts so they did this.

Nothing will happen.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)




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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Muff said:


> https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-temporarily-suspended-by-nsac-due-failed-tests--126500


Temporarily suspended till May 5th.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

rjjfan said:


> Temporarily suspended till April 20th.


FTFY


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## pipe wrenched (Jun 4, 2013)

rjjfan said:


> Temporarily suspended till May 5th.


:lol: ... I have no doubt


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

This "suspension" is bullshit. The NSAC is essentially answering Team Golovkin'a claim that they are doing nothing about the failed drug test. This fight will go on as planned for May 5th, clenbuterol or no clenbuterol.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Ok Nevada :lol:


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## Nigelbro (May 22, 2013)

So.

Now we know what we always feared, this sport and all sports in general a rife with this shit.
If you take 2 steps back and look at the big picture you can see that certain pros can’t go the distance and are notorious for it. This is a tell tale sign of anabolics. I’m no doctor but I’m talking about the crudest and rudest forms of peds that people don’t even bother masking. Power and speed peds.
Every other sport has retrospective penalties so think about this.
McGregor gases early against a weed smoker twice and has Hulk Hoganesqe comeback abilities. Dole bludger to world champ in record speed? Fuck off.
Danny Green loses his paper IBO title to Tarver, who tests positive in his very next fight and the title becomes vacant. Other sports amend the record books but no, Green shuts his mouth because they were both juiced to the gills in their fight. The IBO didn’t test them and were complicit in the whole thing. Once Green/Fenech separated he began to get delirious by the 8th round.
Canelo was visibly fucked and came back to win some late rounds and that’s why I scored it to him by one round. I gave him the win because I am his fanboy - not anymore.

I hope GGG takes this out in the first round.


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Canelo is suspended until the hearing where he will have a chance to represent himself and "sway" the board towards allowing him to continue fight... this is just a formality, the fight will go on.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

rjjfan said:


> Temporarily suspended till May 5th.


Suspended until April 10th, when he will meet with the Nevada Commission for a final decision on his case.

https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-temporarily-suspended-by-nsac-due-failed-tests--126500


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Muff said:


> https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-temporarily-suspended-by-nsac-due-failed-tests--126500


I wonder how this effects their training... Will one if them left off the gas and be distracted in some type of way? I feel so.

They wouldn't suspend him for some tainted meat bullshit excuse. His levels of "tainted meat" via clen we're off the fucking charts. If the fight goes on it's a pass because he's the present and future cash cow for Vegas. It won't mean shit. If the fight is cancelled or postponed it's because they couldn't do him any favors.


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Fuck you Canelo dick riders and sympathizers. You know who you are. Mrs. Byrd is a crook, that 118-110 scorecard is criminal. Calling GGG into the ring only to fight a year and a half later, two fucked up scorecards, and testing positive for clen just reaks of insecurity and dishonesty. GGG outlander him by over 50 punches. He tests positive before the biggest fight of his life... Look at the big picture and tell me something is not wrong here.

Like I said they wouldn't suspend him if there wasn't some shady shit going on with this man.


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## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

If you make millions, you get a suspension.
If you make tens of millions, your fitness coach can keep you pumped with magic shakes and you can avoid tests due to fear of needles.
If you make hundreds of millions, you can be caught red-handed while hooked up to two ivs and be granted a dispensation after the actual fight takes place.


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## Sawspan (May 17, 2013)

Nigelbro said:


> So.
> 
> Now we know what we always feared, this sport and all sports in general a rife with this shit.
> If you take 2 steps back and look at the big picture you can see that certain pros can't go the distance and are notorious for it. This is a tell tale sign of anabolics. I'm no doctor but I'm talking about the crudest and rudest forms of peds that people don't even bother masking. Power and speed peds.
> ...


I think Green getting delirious in the 8th round had more to do with temperatures inside Challenge stadium being in excess of 45 degrees as the airconditioning died.


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## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

Caught with *SIX HUNDRED* picograms and the man _might_ only get a short suspension (if that) only to resume his career.
Only in professional boxing :lol::rofl


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## church11 (Jun 6, 2013)

I like Canelo, but the guys got an asterisk in my books now.


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## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

thehook13 said:


> You have to wonder how bad this issue has mentally set back 'Nelo in camp.
> 
> Just saw him training and thought sure ly he must be distracted by all this.
> 
> ...


Gets caught with not 6 or 60, but 600 picograms of anabolic steroids and is not only still talking but actually calling people bitches.
What an absolute degenerate and subhuman piece of scum :lol:


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

REDC said:


> Caught with *SIX HUNDRED* picograms and the man _might_ only get a short suspension (if that) only to resume his career.
> Only in professional boxing :lol::rofl


B-b-b-but boxers are different to other athletes....


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## mick557 (Jun 6, 2013)

Muff said:


> https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-temporarily-suspended-by-nsac-due-failed-tests--126500


So is he still subject to random testing while suspended...


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## venom (Mar 24, 2018)

hate all you want. fights happening. and canelo's getting the KO


#cleanelo


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> Suspended until April 10th, when he will meet with the Nevada Commission for a final decision on his case.
> 
> https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-temporarily-suspended-by-nsac-due-failed-tests--126500


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> Canelo is suspended until the hearing where he will have a chance to represent himself and "sway" the board towards allowing him to continue fight... this is just a formality, the fight will go on.


That's what I thought should have happened to begin with.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Suspended from what exactly?


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

venom said:


> hate all you want. fights happening. and canelo's getting the KO
> 
> #cleanelo


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## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

This suspension is most likely just for show. Hopefully they do actually investigate this and find out if he's telling the truth or not


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## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

I don't see what they can investigate, if Canelo is telling the truth those tacos hit the shitter over a month ago.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

ElKiller said:


> I don't see what they can investigate, if Canelo is telling the truth those tacos hit the shitter over a month ago.


Exactly, they can't prove anything. Even if he was telling the truth that beef is long gone...

It's a formality.


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## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)




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## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

church11 said:


> I like Canelo, but the guys got an asterisk in my books now.


For sure, he only has himself to blame, at best Canelo and his team have been incredibly unprofessional and very stupid. At worst it's a blatant attempt to gain an advantage using performance enhancing drugs. If that is the case they haven't used a strong enough masking agent and have been caught red handed. It's another asterisk in the golden boy / Canelo shit show to go with the dodgy officiating that have become part and parcel of his career.

I absolutely sympathize with Golovkin on this, I don't necessarily agree with him speaking out and using words like terrorist etc but then it's taken that kind of strong stance on this to get the required authorities to react. That's the problem here, Golovkin has had to cause a stir to get a reactive response. At no point did it look like anyone was going to take a proactive stance on this. Everyone seemed more than willing to sweep this under the rug so they can have there pockets lined come fight night. This needs a proper investigation with a proper punishment upon the findings. Even if the positive test has come about through tainted meat a punishment needs to be handed out for the sheer irresponsibility and stupidity of not sourcing the meat correctly.

The fight will still go ahead, personally I believe that it was tainted meat, even if he is guilty there is too much money at stake and the powers that be will ensure this is swept under the carpet, I think the lax response to date confirms that. As for the fight itself I think Canelo is catching Golovkin at the right time, we know Golovkin can't win officially on the cards and i dont think he can stop Canelo.


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## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

GlassJaw said:


> This suspension is most likely just for show. Hopefully they do actually investigate this and find out if he's telling the truth or not


Exactly right it's just for show. The only reasonable way to investigate this is for team Canelo to communicate where they have purchased the meat for in last god knows how many months. Test the meat and if it has traces of the drug in the meat voila you have your alibi. Problem being that this drug I understand is used widespread for cattle across Mexico (could be wrong?) and this method relies on team Canelo being honest with the information they give. If he has cheated (I don't think he has intentionally) I don't think it would be too difficult for them to falsify the information they give to investigators nor would it be too difficult to produce some "tainted" meat for evidences sake. Above else I think it would be nigh on impossible to prove Canelo guilty beyond reasonable doubt, especially since it was only trace amounts that were found, a small enough reading to chalk down to tainted meat.


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## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> Dude you're writing waaaaaaaay too much for something that's real simple lol. At the end of the day, you can believe whatever you want. That "picograms" argument has been debunked many times already. Watch the videos I posted. Do you even realize what a picogram is? Seems to me that you're really sensitive about this issue and trying real, real hard to present an argument based on pseudo science that's been recycled a million times. I've seen that elementary crap a week ago. If you believe you know more than Victor Conte and Heredia than good for you bro :clap. I used an example of this earlier. All you're doing is telling chicks that your dick is 100 millimeters long but it's still 4 inches atsch. Do you not understand how small 600 picograms are? Do you have the info of when these dudes were tested and how long Clen was in their system when those measures were taken? You're missing the whole point. You haven't provided SHIT but the same recycled argument that most fools have been using the past week .:lol: That shit is all over twitter. And stick to Clen. You can talk about Steroids and EPO and HGH with your buddies at home when you're dissecting cockroaches later. This is about Clen and nothing more. Update your shit already :thumbsup.
> 
> By the way, nice Pic of Justin Gatlin. The guy who was banned for PED use. Is he the one who motivated you to become a PED expert? He must have taught you a lot about picograms eh? :lol:


Sounds like you are all up in Canelo's ass bruh


----------



## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

church11 said:


> I like Canelo, but the guys got an asterisk in my books now.


He's got one _helluva_ humongous asterisk and not just in your book. :yep



DOM5153 said:


> The fight will still go ahead, *personally I believe that it was tainted meat*, even if he is guilty there is too much money at stake and the powers that be will ensure this is swept under the carpet, I think the lax response to date confirms that. As for the fight itself I think Canelo is catching Golovkin at the right time, we know Golovkin can't win officially on the cards and i dont think he can stop Canelo.


If he tested positive for, say, traces of 5 picogram -such as Contador, who was still *stripped* of an *Olympic* title and *banned for 2 years- *then I'd agree but we're talking *600-800* picogram here :lol:






I think you could force-feed someone 50 pounds of highly clenbuterol treated beef and his/her clenbuterol values would still be way lower than 600-800 picograms.


----------



## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

REDC said:


> He's got one _helluva_ humongous asterisk and not just in your book. :yep
> 
> If he tested positive for, say, traces of 5 picogram -such as Contador, who was still *stripped* of an *Olympic* title and *banned for 2 years- *then I'd agree but we're talking *600-800* picogram here :lol:
> 
> ...


Shit I thought we were talking trace amounts, must admit I've not read Into this too much. Canelo clearly has some explaining to do.


----------



## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

DOM5153 said:


> Shit I thought we were talking trace amounts, must admit I've not read Into this too much. Canelo clearly has some explaining to do.


I believe 1 nanogram is the WADA treshold so his levels are officially considered traces - although through the roof compared to Contador. The Spaniard's career is forever tainted over 5 picogram and he lost his Olympic medal along with a 2-year ban.
Yeah, he has some explaining to do and then some.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

REDC said:


> I believe 1 nanogram is the WADA treshold so his levels are officially considered traces - although through the roof compared to Contador. The Spaniard's career is forever tainted over 5 picogram and he lost his Olympic medal along with a 2-year ban.
> Yeah, he has some explaining to do and then some.


There's no Treshold for Clen.

But there's a "MINIMUM REQUIRED PERFORMANCE LEVELS FOR DETECTION AND IDENTIFICATION OF NON-THRESHOLD SUBSTANCES" which is set at 0.2 ng/ml.
https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/defa...v1-Minimum-Required-Performance-Levels-EN.pdf


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

REDC said:


> He's got one _helluva_ humongous asterisk and not just in your book. :yep
> 
> If he tested positive for, say, traces of 5 picogram -such as Contador, who was still *stripped* of an *Olympic* title and *banned for 2 years- *then I'd agree but we're talking *600-800* picogram here :lol:


I read Contador came back with 50pg/ml

https://arbitrationlaw.com/file-dow...FjAFegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw2bKAMC7-6NTY0hiIM928AZ



> *I think you could force-feed someone 50 pounds of highly clenbuterol treated beef and his/her clenbuterol values would still be way lower than 600-800 picograms.*


You haven't been reading the thread have you?

I wonder how cases of clen poisonings due to the consumption of tainted meat occur then? I'm guessing you have people eating the whole cow.

They've shown levels of up to 850 pg/ml from tainted meat in a study done in germany.

I'm pretty sure they weren't trying to kill their subjects in that study, take a look at the levels of poisoning victims here.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9213863/

"Urine measurements of clenbuterol were positive for all analyzed cases (50 +/- 42 ng/ml)."


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Dan was talking about a great possibility that this fight could be off....


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Dan was talking about a great possibility that this fight could be off....


I truly doubt it...


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

The didn't advertise the fight yesterday on HBO and the company that was presenting the rematch in theaters has removed the fight from their upcoming showings. 

GGG v Jacobs II is a likely replacement for Cinco de Mayo.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Dan was talking about a great possibility that this fight could be off....












I doubt it but I don't rule it out.


----------



## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Exactly, *they can't prove anything.* Even if he was telling the truth that beef is long gone...
> 
> It's a formality.


Err, they don't need to prove anything anymore. Burden of proof now is on _Canelo_ to try and proof that it was contaminated meat.

Just like Contador, who couldn't. Poor fucker was subsequently suspended for 2 years, lost his Tour de France title along with a _huge_ fine. All because of 50 picogram, 12 to 16 times _less_ than the amount found in Canelo's body.

Looking at Contador's case, what would you suggest to be fair punishment for Canelo?


----------



## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

Anyone what WADA's stance is on this? Will they bring the case to the CAS to try and get him suspended?


----------



## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

If the fight doesnt take place then I win the bet with whoever I made the avatar bet


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

REDC said:


> Err, they don't need to prove anything anymore. Burden of proof now is on _Canelo_ to try and proof that it was contaminated meat.
> 
> Just like Contador, who couldn't. Poor fucker was subsequently suspended for 2 years, lost his Tour de France title along with a _huge_ fine. All because of 50 picogram, 12 to 16 times _less_ than the amount found in Canelo's body.
> 
> Looking at Contador's case, what would you suggest to be fair punishment for Canelo?


I'd probably look at Vargas' case instead.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Drunkenboat said:


> If the fight doesnt take place then I win the bet with whoever I made the avatar bet


Fuck off ******, we said 2018.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

People bang on about whether it was or wasn't "contaminated meat" but even if it was that doesn't mean it was consumed accidentally or without knowledge of it being contaminated.

Even if it was contaminated meat Canelo could still have consumed it as a way of ingesting clen. People need to understand this and stop dividing the ingestion method as meat=innocent other methods=guilty.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> People bang on about whether it was or wasn't "contaminated meat" but even if it was that doesn't mean it was consumed accidentally or without knowledge of it being contaminated.
> 
> Even if it was contaminated meat Canelo could still have consumed it as a way of ingesting clen. People need to understand this and stop dividing the ingestion method as meat=innocent other methods=guilty.


:lol:

So rather than take a tablet, where he knows the exact dose he's taking, he running around eating meat in hopes of taking an effective dose?

You know that there is no way to tell with todays lab tech right?


----------



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

REDC said:


> Looking at Contador's case, what would you suggest to be fair punishment for Canelo?


Forced to fight GGG on may 5 with shoelaces tied together.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

No doubt in my mind Canelo is on the juice. This hogmeat bullshit is the easiest excuse to make and every fucker has been at it with that excuse when nabbed. 

Nothing will be doen though, as long as there is money to be made then the commision will look past it. How many fights have actually been stopped from happening due to fail peds tests? How many times have we seen it brushed under the carpet. Were at a point in boxing where no one even really gives a shit if they are on peds anymore because its accepted that the majority are juiced to the gills anyway.

Fights that I can think were cancelled were Wilder v Povetkin/Ortiz because Wilder refused to fight, Khan v Peterson II cause Khan refused to fight, Berto/Ortiz II because Ortiz refused to fight. I cant thibk of a single example of where the commision has shut a fight down, though there probably is some. Its usually atthe fighters discression.

We watched the biggest named boxer of this generation get caught juicing in the lead up to the biggest fight in years and was brushed away as nothing. No need to think the same will happen here. Only way this gight isnt made is if GGG says so. 

Boxings overall dealings on PED use is as pathetic as they come tbh.


----------



## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I'd probably look at Estrada's case instead.


Please elaborate?


----------



## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

Chatty said:


> No doubt in my mind Canelo is on the juice. This hogmeat bullshit is the easiest excuse to make and every fucker has been at it with that excuse when nabbed.
> 
> Nothing will be doen though, as long as there is money to be made then the commision will look past it. How many fights have actually been stopped from happening due to fail peds tests? How many times have we seen it brushed under the carpet. Were at a point in boxing where no one even really gives a shit if they are on peds anymore because its accepted that the majority are juiced to the gills anyway.
> 
> ...


WADA could/should bring the case before the Court of Arbitration for Sport to have him suspended.
If the NSAC doesn't suspend him why would WADA let him/them get away with it?

*''The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) has filed today a declaration to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in Lausanne against the Spanish Cycling Federation's (RFEC) decision in the case of Alberto Contador. Mr. Contador was acquitted following a positive test for clenbuterol during an in-competition test carried out on July 21, 2010.''*

_"As always, *WADA will respect CAS decisions and continue to exercise its right to appeal at CAS any further case when it believes the Code has not been correctly followed.*"_

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/n...s-statement-of-appeal-to-cas-in-contador-case
https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/news/2012-02/wada-statement-on-contador-decision-from-cas-0


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

REDC said:


> Please elaborate?


:lol:

I didn't realize I fucked up the name, needed some coffee.

Fransisco Vargas.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

REDC said:


> WADA could/should bring the case before the Court of Arbitration for Sport to have him suspended.
> If the NSAC doesn't suspend him why would WADA let him/them get away with it?
> 
> *''The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) has filed today a declaration to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in Lausanne against the Spanish Cycling Federation's (RFEC) decision in the case of Alberto Contador. Mr. Contador was acquitted following a positive test for clenbuterol during an in-competition test carried out on July 21, 2010.''*
> ...


I don't understand why contador is the example to follow here.

This is not cycling, Contador did not eat Mexican meat.

You could look at Erik Morales' case and Bandido Vargas' case (both excused, both boxers).

You can look at the U17 soccer players that played in a tournament held in Mexico (also all excused, highest level tested was at 1500 pg/ml)

http://www.espn.com/general/story?i...FjABegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw2pSJqz_9vKFwxchDJTCub3

Or you could look at NFL player Duane Brown's case.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/new...d-meat-clenbuterol/1soax7sy3jst814bqefpleo5ci

All tested positive due to tainted Mexican meat, all excused.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> :lol:
> 
> So rather than take a tablet, where he knows the exact dose he's taking, he running around eating meat in hopes of taking an effective dose?
> 
> You know that there is no way to tell with todays lab tech right?


What are you on about? What is the point you're making and how does it counter the point I'm making? Speak more clearly Ped.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> What are you on about? What is the point you're making and how does it counter the point I'm making? Speak more clearly Ped.


That its retarded to try to go on a cycle of clen via meat instead of a controlled dose in a tablet.

Pee tests cannot tell the difference.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> That its retarded to try to go on a cycle of clen via meat instead of a controlled dose in a tablet.
> 
> Pee tests cannot tell the difference.


Who the hell said that he didn't, in fact, use a "controlled dose in a tablet"? Team Canelo? What if he ingested tablets _and _ingested dirty meat as a cover?

Guess you've completely bought the story...


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Who the hell said that he didn't, in fact, use a "controlled dose in a tablet"? Team Canelo? What if he ingested tablets _and _ingested dirty meat as a cover?
> 
> Guess you've completely bought the story...


There you go again Stevie, leaping to conclusions without reading the context.



Kurushi said:


> People bang on about whether it was or wasn't "contaminated meat" but even if it was that doesn't mean it was consumed accidentally or without knowledge of it being contaminated.
> 
> Even if it was contaminated meat Canelo could still have consumed it as a way of ingesting clen. People need to understand this and stop dividing the ingestion method as meat=innocent other methods=guilty.


Kurushi is saying that maybe Canelo eat tainted meat AS a PED.

How retarded would that be? Canelo could use tablets all day and the pee test would be the same. No need to use meat in the actual ingestion, only as the excuse.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> There you go again Stevie, leaping to conclusions without reading the context.
> 
> Kurushi is saying that maybe Canelo eat tainted meat AS a PED.
> 
> How retarded would that be? Canelo could use tablets all day and the pee test would be the same. No need to use meat in the actual ingestion, only as the excuse.


If he's training and eating in Mexico and ingesting pills already, why bother to have clean meat shipped in to camp?


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> If he's training and eating in Mexico and ingesting pills already, why bother to have clean meat shipped in to camp?


That wasn't the scenario Kurushi brought up.

If he's taking pills he's taking pills. The tainted meat would probably throw off his doses though.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> That wasn't the scenario Kurushi brought up.
> 
> If he's taking pills he's taking pills. *The tainted meat would probably throw off his doses though*.


... Which could possibly have contributed to his absurdly high levels?


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> ... Which could possibly have contributed to his absurdly high levels?


Who said they where absurdly high? They were under 1 ng/ml.

Also if you're signed up for year wide random testing, and you're trying to hide you clen use, why throw something unpredictable like tainted meat into the mix? Again, retarded.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Who said they where absurdly high? They were under 1 ng/ml.
> 
> Also if you're signed up for year wide random testing, and you're trying to hide you clen use, why throw something unpredictable like tainted meat into the mix? Again, retarded.


... But eating meat in Mexico before a world title fight on Cinco De Mayo, PPV,_ isn't _retarded?

.... Whilst being signed up for year wide random testing?


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> ... But eating meat in Mexico before a world title fight on Cinco De Mayo, PPV,_ isn't _retarded?


This is the 2nd time you change the scenario buddy.

I read your "Noah's Arc was real!" thread. Once you make up your mind about something, it's done.

I think I made my point about Kurushi's post well enough.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

... You also just made an argument against Canelo's tainted meat defense. Well done.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> This is the 2nd time you change the scenario buddy.
> 
> I read your "Noah's Arc was real!" thread. Once you make up your mind about something, it's done.
> 
> I think I made my point about Kurushi's post well enough.


... I notice that you are now arguing against Canelo's defense. Why use tainted meat if you are trying to hide your steroid usage, right? Why eat tainted meat if you are in a testing protocol when it is just so darn unpredictable? Maybe it was just pills and not meat at all...


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> ... I notice that you are now arguing against Canelo's defense. Why use tainted meat if you are trying to hide your steroid usage, right? Maybe it was just pills and not meat at all...


Lol. Stevie there are many arguments to make against Canelos defense.

Read the thread to get my take on it.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Lol. Stevie there are many arguments to make against Canelos defense.
> 
> Read the thread to get my take on it.


I don't think that you have a take. You've argued that his levels can be attributed to tainted meat and are now arguing that it would be retarded to eat tainted meat while in a drug testing protocol before a world title PPV fight on Cinco De Mayo.

It's fine, you want to see the fight. We all do.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> I don't think that you have a take. You've argued that his levels can be attributed to tainted meat and are now arguing that it would be retarded to eat tainted meat while in a drug testing protocol before a world title PPV fight on Cinco De Mayo.
> 
> It's fine, you want to see the fight. We all do.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


>


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> its retarded to try to go on a cycle of clen via meat instead of a controlled dose in a tablet. Pee tests cannot tell the difference.





Pedrin1787 said:


> Kurushi is saying that maybe Canelo eat tainted meat AS a PED. How retarded would that be? Canelo could use tablets all day and the pee test would be the same. No need to use meat in the actual ingestion, only as the excuse.


Well it's clearly a greater risk to "use tablets all day" than to consume contaminated meat because a tablet's sole purpose is to administer its contents whereas in meat the administration would be secondary to the meat primarily being food. So, if you're going to deliberately ingest clen, then it's not retarded to do so in a way that is going to reduce the chances of you getting caught.

Regardless of whether "pee tests can/not tell the difference", having a blister pack of clenbuterol in your bathroom cabinet is more risky than having a sirloin steak in your kitchen fridge. The trade off is, as you point out, the challenge in how you would ingest the desired amount for a cycle. I don't know what would be involved in that challenge, whether it's impossible to ingest clen efficiently that way or whether it's perfectly manageable. I'm genuinely interested if you have further information on that.

Obviously many banned substances can be ingested as part of consuming various foods/drinks rather than being administered directly in therapeutic form as part of a cycle (as many previously suspended athletes will tell you). So that circles back to my original point which is that a claim of consuming food tainted with a PED is not synonymous with being ignorant of having ingest the PED.


----------



## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Fuck off ******, we said 2018.


Ah hah you wish pillow biter


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Well it's clearly a greater risk to "use tablets all day" than to consume contaminated meat because a tablet's sole purpose is to administer its contents whereas in meat the administration would be secondary to the meat primarily being food. So, if you're going to deliberately ingest clen, then it's not retarded to do so in a way that is going to reduce the chances of you getting caught.
> 
> Regardless of whether "pee tests can/not tell the difference", having a blister pack of clenbuterol in your bathroom cabinet is less risky than having a sirloin steak in your kitchen fridge. The trade off is, as you point out, the challenge in how you would ingest the desired amount for a cycle. I don't know what would be involved in that challenge, whether it's impossible to ingest clen efficiently that way or whether it's perfectly manageable. I'm genuinely interested if you have further information on that.
> 
> Obviously many banned substances can be ingested as part of consuming various foods/drinks rather than being administered directly in therapeutic form as part of a cycle (as many previously suspended athletes will tell you). So that circles back to my original point which is that a claim of consuming food tainted with a PED is not synonymous with being ignorant of having ingest the PED.


I didn't pull the "the pee test can't tell the difference" point out of my ass.

There was a whole study done on the subject and the conclusion was that you cannot.

Knowing this, I don't see how ingesting clen via meat reduces your chances of getting caught. I'd guess it increases them because your ingestion is not as precise as using a tablet form.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Drunkenboat said:


> Ah hah you wish pillow biter


We said that if the fight doesn't happen in 2018 I lose. That was the bet.

You thought it wouldn't happen within 2 years :lol:.


----------



## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> We said that if the fight doesn't happen in 2018 I lose. That was the bet.
> 
> You thought it wouldn't happen within 2 years :lol:.


Nice try ******


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I didn't pull the "the pee test can't tell the difference" point out of my ass.
> 
> There was a whole study done on the subject and the conclusion was that you cannot.
> 
> Knowing this, I don't see how ingesting clen via meat reduces your chances of getting caught. I'd guess it increases them because your ingestion is not as precise as using a tablet form.


I didn't think you did and I think I'm familiar with the abstract of the study you're referring to (if it's the same one I'm thinking of). Obviously if tests could differentiate between ingestion methods then Canelo's claims would already have been established as being either true or false.

I'm honestly open to learning about whether someone could reasonably, consistently and reliably gain benefits of clen via a coordinated diet of meat consumption. Any thoughts?


----------



## Chip H (Oct 8, 2016)

Fuck Canelo
Fuck Oscar
Fuck the bent judges
Fuck the biased Mexican supporters

Fuck em all.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Chip H said:


> Fuck Canelo
> Fuck Oscar
> Fuck the bent judges
> Fuck the biased Mexican supporters
> ...


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> I didn't think you did and I think I'm familiar with the abstract of the study you're referring to (if it's the same one I'm thinking of). Obviously if tests could differentiate between ingestion methods then Canelo's claims would already have been established as being either true or false.
> 
> I'm honestly open to learning about whether someone could reasonably, consistently and reliably gain benefits of clen via a coordinated diet of meat consumption. Any thoughts?


I'm not the right guy to answer this, but I'm guessing that with a bit of planning (preparing the cow to have the appropriate levels of clen before butchering), and some trial and error (eating meat, testing levels) you could probably do it.

You also have to ask if intaking it this way has the same effect? No idea.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I'm not the right guy to answer this, but I'm guessing that with a bit of planning (preparing the cow to have the appropriate levels of clen before butchering), and some trial and error (eating meat, testing levels) you could probably do it.


Mate, then it's not really retarded to suggest the possibility then is it?



Pedrin1787 said:


> You also have to ask if intaking it this way has the same effect? No idea.


That's what I'm wondering too. I don't know nearly enough about metabolism and/or absorption rates etc. to know if deliberately consuming clen via meat consumption would be an efficient way of benefitting from its effects.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> They read @Mal posts so they did this.
> 
> Nothing will happen.


Positive step by the NSAC. No cancellation, but my assumption is the fight is up in the air at this time.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Mate, then it's not really retarded to suggest the possibility then is it?
> 
> That's what I'm wondering too. I don't know nearly enough about metabolism and/or absorption rates etc. to know if deliberately consuming clen via meat consumption would be an efficient way of benefitting from its effects.


Mate I'm not trying to say that bringing it up was retarded. I'm saying going that route would be retarded when the advantage you get out of it is minimal.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Mal said:


> Positive step by the NSAC. No cancellation, but my assumption is the fight is up in the air at this time.


I'm just glad you're happy pal.

Whats your avatar picture?


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

GGG's team make it seem like he's fighting May 5th regardless if it's Canelo or not... https://www.boxingscene.com/golovkin-regardless-what-happens-aims-fight-on-5--126567

Andrade says he's ready to start testing and step in May 5th.. https://www.boxingscene.com/andrade-im-ready-replace-canelo-fight-golovkin-on-5--126578


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Paulie going off about Canelo being dirty :rofl:rofl

https://www.boxingscene.com/malignaggi-only-fing-morons-realize-canelo-dirty--126563


----------



## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

This being boxing, I expect NSAC to clear Canelo in time for the hotel rooms to be booked and the PPV hype to really begin but after Oscar delivers a suitcase full of cash to the commissioners.


----------



## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

Douglass Fischer
Yesterday at 04:57 · 
Twitter
· 
Retweeted Dan Rafael (@danrafaelespn):

Anyone who doubts #CaneloGGG2 isn't in legitimate serious jeopardy of being canceled due to Canelo's 2 failed PED tests I offer just one exhibit: HBO didn't use its Saturday fight telecast to promote the PPV & left it off it's upcoming calendar of events. This is serious, folks.


----------



## nvs (May 16, 2013)

Good for GGG if he does not want to fight it.
Good if cheaters get punished.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

I want Canelo punished in some way and the fight postponed or cancelled for the time being. It's disappointing the amount of people not giving a fuck about the matter and so confidently predicting it will go on as scheduled. 

Imo the thing to do is send the right message by fining him and cancelling the fight. Even if it was only meat he took. I care more about justice than this match up to be honest. With him testing positive I'd rather see a rematch with Jacobs or a fight with WBO #1 Andrade.


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> I want Canelo punished in some way and the fight postponed or cancelled for the time being. It's disappointing the amount of people not giving a fuck about the matter and so confidently predicting it will go on as scheduled.
> 
> Imo the thing to do is send the right message by fining him and cancelling the fight. Even if it was only meat he took. I care more about justice than this match up to be honest. With him testing positive I'd rather see a rematch with Jacobs or a fight with WBO #1 Andrade.


The only punished would be GGG of a career high retirement check, why you think he keeps quacking but not pulling out? Money cures all problems...

Canelo should be punished but I'm dying for a rematch can we wait until after the fight? please?

lol

I'll take GGG vs Saunders though and Canelo takes winner if you must punish immediately.


----------



## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> The only punished would be GGG of a career high retirement check, why you think he keeps quacking but not pulling out? Money cures all problems...


Money sure seems to be curing any problem officialdom has with Canelo's two positive tests.

Nothing to see here but money.


----------



## Gully Foyle (May 7, 2016)

Doc said:


> The only punished would be GGG of a career high retirement check, why you think he keeps quacking but not pulling out? Money cures all problems...
> 
> Canelo should be punished but I'm dying for a rematch can we wait until after the fight? please?
> 
> ...


As sad as it is, but it's true...money rules boxing. So if they can cut Canelos purse in half and give it to GGG then suspend him after, that could work. Maybe that's whats being negotiated behind the scenes.


----------



## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

Canelo will pull out if they cut his money. Remember he avoided GGG for a long time.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

All of this has probably made this fight so much bigger. Itsfeels like a legitinate grudge match now (not a fake WWE beef match Hearn puts on) and could make the fight all that more dramtic come May 5th.

Its probably helped sell the fight more as well, as they say controversy creates cash. Its had a lit of exposure about the failed tests, if it does go agead Canelo should heel right up and accept the role as the bad guy.

If it gets cancelled you have Saunders, Andrade, Charlo, Derevyanchenko, Murata, Jacobs, Id be happy for any of them to step in, needs to be sorted quick though, I dont wanna see someone step in with a weeks notice when they arent in 100% top shape.


----------



## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

Pedrin1787 said:


> :lol:
> 
> I didn't realize I fucked up the name, needed some coffee.
> 
> Fransisco Vargas.


_*''The Nevada State Athletic Commission hit Fernando Vargas with a nine-month suspension and $100,000 fine.''*_

*"We are going to be asking the hard questions," said Luther Mack, head of the Nevada Commission. "He is saying that somebody gave him those steroids without his knowledge. That is hard to believe.''

"This is the first pure boxer to test positive and it will not be tolerated. We will not sit idly by. We have to be strict. We need to increase the integrity of the sport. It has to be clean.''
*
This was 15 years ago. Let's see what happens.


----------



## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I don't understand why contador is the example to follow here.
> 
> This is not cycling, Contador did not eat Mexican meat.
> 
> ...


To set precedent.

You're saying nothing should be done and every Mexican athlete with suspect anabolic steroid levels can just say it was contaminated meat without any consequences? Do you realize every (Mexican) boxer could start using that excuse/argument if nothing's done?

The amount he tested positive for were the levels found in his system at the time of the actual test. We don't know what his peak/highest value was. Maybe at the peak of his cycle he had 1 gram in his system for all we know :lol:


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

REDC said:


> _*''The Nevada State Athletic Commission hit Fernando Vargas with a nine-month suspension and $100,000 fine.''*_
> 
> *"We are going to be asking the hard questions," said Luther Mack, head of the Nevada Commission. "He is saying that somebody gave him those steroids without his knowledge. That is hard to believe.''
> 
> ...


He meant FRANCISCO Vargas, not FERNANDO Vargas.


----------



## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

_''Middleweight prospect Shane Mosley Jr. has been suspended for seven months by the Nevada Athletic Commission due to his coming up positive for a banned amphetamine in testing done for his June 27 win over Jason Kelly in a modified version of boxing known as BKB, or Big Knockout Boxing.

*Mosley blamed the positive test on the use of Adderall, a prescription drug for people with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder*, or ADHD, which the 24-year-old says he has. Yet as commissioner Pat Lundvall noted, *Mosley did not write in his pre-fight questionnaire that he had taken the drug, and* *Mosley testified this was because he thought it would be out of his system*. Mosley also did not seek a therapeutic-use exemption from the commission.''_

https://www.boxingscene.com/mosley-jr-suspended-seven-months-positive-test--94657

Mosley JR's excuse didn't hold. Why would the meat excuse?

Professional and amateur athletes all over the world are forewarned by their respective organizations about the risk of contaminated meat in Mexico. Canelo *being* an actual Mexican citizen who's *living* in Mexico should surely know better?

_''23 November 2011_
*Athletes must show caution due to contaminated meat*
_Due to continuing concerns over contaminated meat in certain parts of the world, the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) has re-emphasized the need for athletes to exercise extreme caution with regards to eating meat when traveling to competitions in China and Mexico.''_


----------



## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

Zopilote said:


> He meant FRANCISCO Vargas, not FERNANDO Vargas.


I know. Read post #415.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Canelo basically goes on trial on April 10th, so I want to see what puts forward to clear his name. I don't know whether he was cheating or not, but I'm glad the commission is putting the burden on Canelo after the failed test to prove his innocence.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

REDC said:


> _*''The Nevada State Athletic Commission hit Fernando Vargas with a nine-month suspension and $100,000 fine.''*_
> 
> *"We are going to be asking the hard questions," said Luther Mack, head of the Nevada Commission. "He is saying that somebody gave him those steroids without his knowledge. That is hard to believe.''
> 
> ...


Bandido Vargas not Fernando Vargas

http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/15963929/francisco-vargas-orlando-salido-ends-majority-draw

"The fight was in danger of being canceled in April, after Vargas failed a random drug test conducted by the Voluntary Anti-Doping Association for the banned substance clenbuterol. However, the California State Athletic Commission, in consultation with both fighters' camps, allowed it to go on because the panel gave Vargas the benefit of the doubt that the bad test was because he ate tainted meat in Mexico, where that is an issue. He was then subject to even more rigorous random drug testing."


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

REDC said:


> To set precedent.
> 
> You're saying nothing should be done and every Mexican athlete with suspect anabolic steroid levels can just say it was contaminated meat without any consequences? Do you realize every (Mexican) boxer could start using that excuse/argument if nothing's done?


Do you really think this is the first time a boxer gets popped for clen? If the meat excuse was worth the risk you'd have not only Mexicans training in Mexico but anyone that could take advantage of the effects taking advantage.

Why the hell should we take a cyclist's case as the example to follow? This is boxing.



> The amount he tested positive for were the levels found in his system at the time of the actual test. We don't know what his peak/highest value was. Maybe at the peak of his cycle he had 1 gram in his system for all we know :lol:


You're being extremely emotional here. First you popped in here going on about how his <1 ng/ml were impossible without eating a whole cow.

You were presented with proof that said otherwise, now you're going about how he "probably" had 1 gram per ml. You're all over the place, it's hard to take you seriously.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Not sure what we can expect from the hearing. It can't be proved 100% how he ingested clen or whether it was intentional. Even if it _was_ contaminated meat and they had the actual meat as evidence it wouldn't prove his innocence as he could have consumed it knowingly.

I imagine Canelo will be given a warning and have to commit to putting more stringent controls over the food he consumes... blah blah blah. Fight will go on just fine and subsequent tests will come back negative. HBO have already clarified why they haven't advertised it and the so-called 'suspension' itself is complete nonsense. A few more tickets sold. Job done.



Pedrin1787 said:


> Mate I'm not trying to say that bringing it up was retarded. I'm saying going that route would be retarded when the advantage you get out of it is minimal.


There's been study upon study, and story upon story about meat tainted with clen in Mexico. This is not just a known issue it's a huge deal and a widespread problem.

If there's a situation involving the consumption of a banned substance for which claiming ignorance should _not_ be a defense, it's when a high-profile Mexican athlete eats Mexican, clen tainted, meat.

If Canelo truly consumed it by accident then that's far more "retarded" than doing it deliberately. I don't think I can accept he's _that_ stupid when he knew how big an issue it is and he knew how many people it's affected before him.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Not sure what we can expect from the hearing. It can't be proved 100% how he ingested clen or whether it was intentional. Even if it _was_ contaminated meat and they had the actual meat as evidence it wouldn't prove his innocence as he could have consumed it knowingly.
> 
> I imagine Canelo will be given a warning and have to commit to putting more stringent controls over the food he consumes... blah blah blah. Fight will go on just fine and subsequent tests will come back negative. HBO have already clarified why they haven't advertised it and the so-called 'suspension' itself is complete nonsense. A few more tickets sold. Job done.


I agree.



> There's been study upon study, and story upon story about meat tainted with clen in Mexico. This is not just a known issue it's a huge deal and a widespread problem.
> 
> If there's a situation involving the consumption of a banned substance for which claiming ignorance should _not_ be a defense, it's when a high-profile Mexican athlete eats Mexican, clen tainted, meat.
> 
> If Canelo truly consumed it by accident then that's far more "retarded" than doing it deliberately. I don't think I can accept he's _that_ stupid when he knew how big an issue it is and he knew how many people it's affected before him.


My point here is that if he ate tainted meat, it was by accident.

If he ingested clenbuterol knowingly, it most certainly wasn't via tainted meat, it was a precise dose.

We'll never know for sure unless Chepo was wearing a body cam or some shit.


----------



## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

Kurushi said:


> There's been study upon study, and story upon story about meat tainted with clen in Mexico. This is not just a known issue it's a huge deal and a widespread problem.
> 
> If there's a situation involving the consumption of a banned substance for which claiming ignorance should _not_ be a defense, it's when a high-profile Mexican athlete eats Mexican, clen tainted, meat.
> 
> If Canelo truly consumed it by accident then that's far more "retarded" than doing it deliberately. I don't think I can accept he's _that_ stupid when he knew how big an issue it is and he knew how many people it's affected before him.


Yup. And most sport federations have a zero-tolerance policy as athletes are well forewarned about the risks as per WADA/VADA. If you test positive it's your responsibility and you get suspended. No questions asked, no excuses.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

REDC said:


> Yup. And most sport federations have a zero-tolerance policy as athletes are well forewarned about the risks as per WADA/VADA. If you test positive it's your responsibility and you get suspended. No questions asked, no excuses.


Except for Fifa and the NFL...and certain Boxing orgs/commissions.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

We know Canelo won't be dirty come Cinco de Mayo and even today he isn't dirty, but is it possible for him to have benefitted in some way from the clen in his system so close to to a full training camp?


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I'm just glad you're happy pal.
> 
> Whats your avatar picture?


From Ingorius bastards. The french theater owner


----------



## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> We know Canelo won't be dirty come Cinco de Mayo and even today he isn't dirty, but is it possible for him to have benefitted in some way from the clen in his system so close to to a full training camp?


Yeah, its hell get his weight down quicker, giving him more time to focus on training in other aspects than training for weight loss.


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

BobDigi5060 said:


> We know Canelo won't be dirty come Cinco de Mayo and even today he isn't dirty, but is it possible for him to have benefitted in some way from the clen in his system so close to to a full training camp?


Interesting question. The way I understand this, Canelo only tested positive those two days(which took place before his official training had started). Assuming(based on what we know) he was clean before and after those dirty tests how much will that help him in this fight?

Any of you PED experts care to shed some light on this?


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

bballchump11 said:


> Right when Canelo was busted, within seconds everybody in charge just said "Oh yeah it's the meat. Nothing to see here". Well it may possibly well be the meat, but I'd say the burden of proof is on Canelo. Berto tested positive for a drug and had a very small amount in his system. He claimed it was contamination, but they canceled the fight and suspended him.
> 
> Like I said, if they're just going to accept Canelo's excuse of meat contamination, I'd at least like to see him pay a fine for negligence. This is an open invitation to every fighter to train in Mexico and juice.


Bro, Berto failed a test for Steroids. There's nothing to prove there because you wont get that from contaminated meat in Mexico. He doesn't even live in Mexico. But let me make things clear that Canelo being innocent, it does not mean he still can't get suspended. They can suspend him just because he failed the test, regardless whether its true or not. That's the issue at hand.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

A.C.S said:


> Still doesnt go against my point these guys use masking agents and Clen is out the system fast and Povetkin tested positive for Meldonium which was banned from January you retard helps to read up before commenting lol


You need a certain amount to mask another agent. No way Canelo could be masking steroids with trace amounts of Clen in his system. Especially during that time, because it would not be beneficial. At this point though it's all speculation. If that's the case then we can all assume everyone is on PED's.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Mal said:


> What you will notice, all the WADA director did was say it's consistent with eating contaminated meats. He didn't say that's what it was, just that it's consistent. Saul's tests are also consistent with someone cycling off the clen. Which should be addressed IMO. But it seems many are trying to suggest the director's statement as a justification, or end of investigation statement. Which it is neither of.


No they are not consistent with someone cycling of Clen. That's false and you'd need proof for that. Unless you're claiming he was cycling on Clen before training camp but that even makes less sense because Clen is worthless 3-4-5 months prior to a fight since it's already out your system.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

The issue with PED's is that the science can be difficult to understand. Nobody is an expert and it's very easy to jump into conclusions when you don't know shit about it and when you have trust issues, especially in America where we have a history if PED cheats. Based on my honest opinion and the research and studying I did, It does not make sense at all that Canelo tried to cheat. The timing, the amount in his body and the reports and PED expert opinions make me even more confident he didn't. But at the end of the day, people will conclude what they want, with or without evidence or knowledge of the situation. It is what it is and that's just the way it goes. I'm not trying to convince anyone. I was just trying to provide info to help people understand what we're dealing with and Canelo's individual case. He can still be suspended and we could miss the fight just because of the failed test but IMO it would be a waste of time. The info provided doesn't prove Canelo is innocent but it makes me give him the benefit of the doubt. Just doesn't make sense at all. Hopefully they still go on with the fight. We'll see if there's no finding in the investigation and if they suspend Canelo even further. To be continued....


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> Bro, Berto failed a test for Steroids. There's nothing to prove there because you wont get that from contaminated meat in Mexico. He doesn't even live in Mexico. But let me make things clear that Canelo being innocent, it does not mean he still can't get suspended. They can suspend him just because he failed the test, regardless whether its true or not. That's the issue at hand.


How do you know? Berto could have failed his test from some tainted supplements and Canelo fro injecting clenbutreol. Once they fail the test, it should be up to them to prove what reason was for the test to come back negative. It seems like the NSAC are going that route luckily.

And note that I'm being a lot more fair to Canelo than most on this site.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> The issue with PED's is that the science can be difficult to understand. Nobody is an expert and it's very easy to jump into conclusions when you don't know shit about it and when you have trust issues, especially in America where we have a history if PED cheats. Based on my honest opinion and the research and studying I did, It does not make sense at all that Canelo tried to cheat. The timing, the amount in his body and the reports and PED expert opinions make me even more confident he didn't. But at the end of the day, people will conclude what they want, with or without evidence or knowledge of the situation. It is what it is and that's just the way it goes. I'm not trying to convince anyone. I was just trying to provide info to help people understand what we're dealing with and Canelo's individual case. He can still be suspended and we could miss the fight just because of the failed test but IMO it would be a waste of time. The info provided doesn't prove Canelo is innocent but it makes me give him the benefit of the doubt. Just doesn't make sense at all. Hopefully they still go on with the fight. We'll see if there's no finding in the investigation and if they suspend Canelo even further. To be continued....


Very few that posted in the thread actually took the time to look at the situation, they made up their minds when they read it was Canelo.

Its basically 22 pages of this










Anyone who disagrees or tries to make a point that goes against their narrative is a blind mexican fanboy.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Very few that posted in the thread actually took the time to look at the situation, they made up their minds when they read it was Canelo.
> 
> Its basically 22 pages of this
> 
> ...


Well GGG will always have his backers on this site.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Very few that posted in the thread actually took the time to look at the situation, they made up their minds when they read it was Canelo.
> 
> Its basically 22 pages of this
> 
> ...


Fake "moo"s


----------



## LayItDown (Jun 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> How do you know? Berto could have failed his test from some tainted supplements and Canelo fro injecting clenbutreol. Once they fail the test, it should be up to them to prove what reason was for the test to come back negative. It seems like the NSAC are going that route luckily.
> 
> And note that I'm being a lot more fair to Canelo than most on this site.


You don't inject clenbuterol for fuck sakes...


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

LayItDown said:


> You don't inject clenbuterol for fuck sakes...


good to know


----------



## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/978747328189386752


----------



## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

MEXAMELAC said:


> You need a certain amount to mask another agent. No way Canelo could be masking steroids with trace amounts of Clen in his system. Especially during that time, because it would not be beneficial. At this point though it's all speculation. *If that's the case then we can all assume everyone is on PED's*.


The majority are/were, now peopl will be more careful now or stop because if Canelo can get caught anyone can, Joshua's already starting to lose weight before he haS to go through Wilder's WBC testing


----------



## Sister Sledge (Oct 22, 2012)

Meanwhile. Demetrius Andrade has offered his services to fight GGG if Canelo gets suspended.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Sister Sledge said:


> Meanwhile. Demetrius Andrade has offered his services to fight GGG if Canelo gets suspended.


Andrade or Jacobs would be fine. Only Jacobs is ppv worthy though.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> No they are not consistent with someone cycling of Clen. That's false and you'd need proof for that. Unless you're claiming he was cycling on Clen before training camp but that even makes less sense because *Clen is worthless 3-4-5 months prior to a fight* since it's already out your system.


Considering it's commonly used as a weight loss drug it doesn't have to be in your system during a fight, if it can help to shed the last few bits of fat to help during the weighin then that's all it needs to do. Especially far away from a fight so you can begin your training camp lighter and therefore have to focus less on losing weight.
And one of your videos quoted a study to prove Canelo's innocence yet that same study stated this "Based on this data, maximum urinary concentrations are supposed to range between 100 and 150 pg/ml." And besides some Chinese woman in that study, nobody even reached 50 picogram.

Also I've already provided early in this thread a source that shows Canelo's 0.6-0.8 ng/ml to be also consistent with therapeutic doses.

And ultimately it's Canelo's own responsibility for what's in his body and his alone.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

KOTF said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/978747328189386752


This is interesting because Morales was excused by the NY state athletic comission and Fransisco Vargas was excused by the California state athletic commission. I don't think we have an example of a boxing clenbuterol case for Nevada do we?

Anyone know?

This thing might be moved to Texas if they decide to get tough....


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Even if they move it elsewhere there is no way the fight could take place in Texas on May 5th correct?

That be some bullshit anyway. Isn't WADA in charge of testing? It's even worse for the sport if they allow them to fight in another state so easily. I don't think it works that way in The UFC.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> Even if they move it elsewhere there is no way the fight could take place in Texas on May 5th correct?
> 
> That be some bullshit anyway. Isn't WADA in charge of testing? It's even worse for the sport if they allow them to fight in another state so easily. I don't think it works that way in The UFC.


Due to the date of the trial, probably not, it would have to be pushed back.

WADA does the testing but it's up to the orgs to make the decesion if I understand the setup correctly.

WBC already said they believe the meat thing considering Canelo has been on the random testing program for years and has always tested clean.

Golovkins team hasn't said anything about canceling due to this.

The Nevada state athletic commision is the only one left to give the green light. If they suspend Nelo, I'm sure Texas will take the fight.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Saunders and Warren's gameplan is totally transparent. I feel sorry for Murray.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

For what it's worth Oskee doesn't seem to worried...


__
http://instagr.am/p/Bg11x_YlThy/


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> For what it's worth Oskee doesn't seem to worried...
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Bg11x_YlThy/


"The face you pull when they don't test the promotor for cocaine"


----------



## OneTime (Nov 10, 2014)

bballchump11 said:


> Andrade or Jacobs would be fine. Only Jacobs is ppv worthy though.


I'd prefer bjs thought the Jacob fight was close it wasn't really exciting


----------



## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> This is interesting because Morales was excused by the NY state athletic comission and Fransisco Vargas was excused by the California state athletic commission. I don't think we have an example of a boxing clenbuterol case for Nevada do we?
> 
> Anyone know?
> 
> This thing might be moved to Texas if they decide to get tough....


Hence why I was suggesting they move the fight to Levi's Stadium


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

KOTF said:


> Hence why I was suggesting they move the fight to Levi's Stadium


DM Oskee on insta.

Its not that late, hes probably railed a few lines but I bet he's not drunk yet.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

OneTime said:


> I'd prefer bjs thought the Jacob fight was close it wasn't really exciting


True and it's for the undisputed title. I heard Warren say that Saunders might not be ready however.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> True and it's for the undisputed title. I heard Warren say that Saunders might not be ready however.


Warren is full of shit. They'll be ready if the opportunity presents itself. Within one interview I saw Saunders give an inconsistent account of when the so-called injury happened. There's no injury. This is opportunism.


----------



## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

They should make GGG vs Saunders and then Canelo vs Jacobs winner gets a shot at the winner


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> No they are not consistent with someone cycling of Clen. That's false and you'd need proof for that. Unless you're claiming he was cycling on Clen before training camp but that even makes less sense because Clen is worthless 3-4-5 months prior to a fight since it's already out your system.


I'm sorry, but without actual proof of some treated beef, it's open to just exactly what caused the test.

There is absolutely no way in the world you can say his levels are not also consistent with someone who simply used and got busted. It's simple physics my friend.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

MGM offering full refunds for GGG v Canelo

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...lo-alvarez-vs-ggg-fight-in-real-jeopardy/amp/


----------



## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

2manyusernames said:


> MGM offering full refunds for GGG v Canelo
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...lo-alvarez-vs-ggg-fight-in-real-jeopardy/amp/


Doubts are clearly growing.


----------



## ciize09 (May 16, 2015)

Pedrin1787 said:


> For what it's worth Oskee doesn't seem to worried...
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Bg11x_YlThy/


LMAO song is actually saying "I don't really wanna fight anymore" 
it's looking grim for may 5th lads


----------



## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

Bogotazo said:


>


Excellent arguments from Conte.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> For what it's worth Oskee doesn't seem to worried...
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Bg11x_YlThy/


My heart


----------



## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Do you really think this is the first time a boxer gets popped for clen? If the meat excuse was worth the risk you'd have not only Mexicans training in Mexico but anyone that could take advantage of the effects taking advantage.
> 
> Why the hell should we take a cyclist's case as the example to follow? This is boxing.
> 
> ...


So when a person makes 2 or more individual arguments he is ''all over the place'' and those arguments are by definition not mutually exclusive to you? Gotcha.

The only reason you're defending Canelo is because you're Mexican. You were speaking of emotional?

With proof you meant that irrelevant article about people getting _poisoned_ from eating liver?

Oh, and, ''for all we know'' is not the same as ''probably''.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

REDC said:


> So when a person makes 2 or more individual arguments he is ''all over the place'' and those arguments are by definition not mutually exclusive to you? Gotcha.
> 
> The only reason you're defending Canelo is because you're Mexican. You were speaking of emotional?
> 
> ...


Well argument two only came out when argument one was shown to be complete bullshit.

How is the poisoning study irrelevant? You were going on about how it was impossible to to test as high as Canelo did whithout eating ridiculous amounts of meat. The people that were poisoned consumed meat and ingested so much clenbuterol they suffered from it.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

REDC said:


> I think you could force-feed someone 50 pounds of highly clenbuterol treated beef and his/her clenbuterol values would still be way lower than 600-800 picograms.


I've yet to see anyone credible point out the "ridiculously" high levels.

Why do we need an investigation if you solved the case with this one post?


----------



## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

Clenelo Alvaroidz


----------



## Boogle McDougal (Jun 8, 2012)

This shit sucks. 

When Canelo got the draw, everybody said "well the decision stinks, but it was a good fight. So we get a rematch, yay."

Fucking BULLSHIT. It stunk. 

You can't count on rematches, you can't count on things being rectified down the line. Nothing is certain. That's why it's fucking important that the right guy gets the decision. The fucking first time. 

Now the rematch is in doubt and who knows if this shit will ever happen. 

Shit like this is why most people don't fucking care about boxing.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Boggle said:


> This shit sucks.
> 
> When Canelo got the draw, everybody said "well the decision stinks, but it was a good fight. So we get a rematch, yay."
> 
> ...


Not only that, but if the fight is postponed and they do rematch one day GGG will be even more past prime.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Full ticket refunds apparently available.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/979114974176882688
https://www.cbssports.com/boxing/ne...canelo-alvarez-vs-ggg-fight-in-real-jeopardy/


----------



## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Full ticket refunds apparently available.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/979114974176882688
> https://www.cbssports.com/boxing/ne...canelo-alvarez-vs-ggg-fight-in-real-jeopardy/


On the surface, a really bad sign. But, if the fight does go on I doubt they'll have a hard time selling those tickets again.

Be interesting to find out how many people ask for refunds.


----------



## mick557 (Jun 6, 2013)

https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-hit-with-nsac-complaint-hearing-now-on-april-18--126680


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> On the surface, a really bad sign. But, if the fight does go on I doubt they'll have a hard time selling those tickets again.
> 
> Be interesting to find out how many people ask for refunds.


Yeah I'd be interested in how many are actually asking for refunds as well and how simple the process is. I initially thought it was just for show with the suspension, but with Fathom Events removing the event from their schedule and now this, shit might actually be serious. As you said, they could easily fill the seats the day before if they wanted to, but now I'm questioning how it'll actually play out.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

mick557 said:


> https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-hit-with-nsac-complaint-hearing-now-on-april-18--126680


https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sport...oping-complaint-canelo-alvarez-191106728.html

This one gives more info.


----------



## mick557 (Jun 6, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sport...oping-complaint-canelo-alvarez-191106728.html
> 
> This one gives more info.


A lot more.

Canelo is done for May anyway by the looks of it.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Yeah if I was GGG, I'd be preparing for another opponent now. April 18th is too close to the fight.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Wonder who they're considering for a replacement.. Andrade said he's willing and probably wouldn't demand a huge purse, although he may be a tough last minute adjustment.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sport...oping-complaint-canelo-alvarez-191106728.html
> 
> This one gives more info.


Help me understand this guys.

"Given that Alvarez is now suspended in Nevada, albeit temporarily, he is ineligible to fight anywhere in the U.S. until the situation is resolved. That means either the commission rules in favor of him or, if it imposes discipline, he serves the full penalty meted out."

Does this mean they could still rule in his favor? If so, then why was it changed to disciplinary hearing?

I'm confused at this point


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Wonder who they're considering for a replacement.. Andrade said he's willing and probably wouldn't demand a huge purse, although he may be a tough last minute adjustment.


Andrade's scared talks a bunch but hasn't fought anyone. It'd be a shame if his ass gets the fight.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

ESPN is saying this fight is basically canceled.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/979492272520736771
All of those (including me) complaining about corruption can stfu now.


----------



## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

The more drug cheats are weeded out of the sport the better.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> ESPN is saying this fight is basically canceled.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/979492272520736771
> All of those (including me) complaining about corruption can stfu now.


Thats what I'm getting too from the articles I'm reading.

Can't wait to hear what his team says about it.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Help me understand this guys.
> 
> "Given that Alvarez is now suspended in Nevada, albeit temporarily, he is ineligible to fight anywhere in the U.S. until the situation is resolved. That means either the commission rules in favor of him or, if it imposes discipline, he serves the full penalty meted out."
> 
> ...


I'd assume so, but I'm pretty confused at this point as well.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Andrade's scared talks a bunch but hasn't fought anyone. It'd be a shame if his ass gets the fight.


Yeah he's certainly talked about facing a lot of good fighters and always blames them for the fight not happening so I can see it as posturing. But GGG needs someone decent and although he certainly doesn't deserve the fight, I'm not sure we'll get too much of a better opponent on this short notice.


----------



## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

Fight doesn't happen in the U.S. so obviously you have to move this to Canada like the BC Place or the SkyDome.

Or, move it to the Tokyo Dome. Instant five stars


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> ESPN is saying this fight is basically canceled.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/979492272520736771
> All of those (including me) complaining about corruption can stfu now.


I'm not overly disappointed. We already got to see the fight once and it wasn't quite we thought it was going to be. In a fight lacking fireworks, GGG -even past his best- was the better middleweight than prime Clenelo.

There's really nothing more to find out here, except to see whether Golovkin had faded enough for Clenelo to finally eclipse him. I honestly wasn't all that interested...


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

KOTF said:


> Fight doesn't happen in the U.S. so obviously you have to move this to Canada like the BC Place or the SkyDome.
> 
> Or, move it to the Tokyo Dome. Instant five stars


Gtfo.


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> I'm not overly disappointed. We already got to see the fight once and it wasn't quite we thought it was going to be. In a fight lacking fireworks, GGG -even past his best- was the better middleweight than prime Clenelo.
> 
> There's really nothing more to find out here, except to see whether Golovkin had faded enough for Clenelo to finally eclipse him. I honestly wasn't all that interested...


Canelo just showed GGG is human when facing a equally skilled opponent... something that brook and jacobs had already exposed... all those HBO fed can and can drivers had convinced many he was super human.

Also a true fan wouldn't not want to see another epic showing of offense vs defense where 2 equally skilled fighters complement each other so well and seeing what adjustments could be made for another action packed skillful fight.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Doc said:


> Canelo just showed GGG is human when facing a equally skilled opponent... something that brook and jacobs had already exposed... all those HBO fed can and can drivers had convinced many he was super human.
> 
> Also a true fan wouldn't not want to see another epic showing of offense vs defense where 2 equally skilled fighters complement each other so well and seeing what adjustments could be made for another action packed skillful fight.


Yeah, I'm not sure how you can say "meh don't wanna see two (arguably) top 10 p4p guys go at it" after a close fight, but it is Stevie we're dealing with here.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> Gtfo.


Mexico City, Estadio Azteca

Clen capitol of the world.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Doc said:


> Canelo just showed GGG is human when facing a equally skilled opponent... something that brook and jacobs had already exposed... all those HBO fed can and can drivers had convinced many he was super human.
> 
> Also a true fan wouldn't not want to see another epic showing of offense vs defense where 2 equally skilled fighters complement each other so well and seeing what adjustments could be made for another action packed skillful fight.


I didn't say I wouldn't want to see, I said I wouldn't care if I didn't see it. As you said, we already knew that GGG was human, so Clenelo winning four rounds while pot-shotting and shoe-shining wasn't really all that groundbreaking. If they complemented each other so well, we'd have gotten a better fight the first time around.

Clenelo is entering his prime and GGG is leaving his; he hasn't looked dominant in two years now and I'd venture to say that he'd have beaten the hell out of Alvarez just a couple of fights ago... at least dropped him once and possibly stopped him.

They are fighters going in different directions and we already saw them intersect.


----------



## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

strip canelita, make ggg vs bjs for the undefeated, undisputed, middleweight champion of the world

and put it....

....on the same card as usyk vs gassiev lets fucking go

let me dream.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure how you can say "meh don't wanna see two (arguably) top 10 p4p guys go at it" after a close fight, but it is Stevie we're dealing with here.


"Close fight" my ass. But this is Pedrin we're dealing with here...

The fight had a clear winner and the sport doesn't need to be held up just to see an outcome that has already been decided.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> "Close fight" my ass. But this is Pedrin we're dealing with here...


My score card is in the RBR thread for all to see Stevie, did you at least watch this one?


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> My score card is in the RBR thread for all to see Stevie, did you at least watch this one?


Who gives a shyt about your score card? LOL. You've already revealed your bias over the past 25 pages. You probably had the Mayweather fight a draw, too.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Who gives a shyt about your score card? LOL. You've already revealed your bias over the past 25 pages. You probably had the Mayweather fight a draw, too.


Why? Because I said that the traces detected *could *be due to meat contamination?

No one has proven otherwise.

As far as my scorecard goes, boxing is scored round by round. If you don't think the fight was close I'd at least like to see your 8 wide GGG rounds.


----------



## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure how you can say "meh don't wanna see two (arguably) top 10 p4p guys go at it" after a close fight, but it is Stevie we're dealing with here.


thing about that fight was how long canelo delayed it

"we dont fuck around!"

after he just defended his middleweight belt at 154lbs against amir khan :lol:

then he fights chavez jr...

him and dlh were saying they wanted the fight to "marinate" but we know they just want ggg to get old


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Why? Because I said that the traces detected *could *be due to meat contamination?
> 
> No one has proven otherwise.
> 
> As far as my scorecard goes, boxing is scored round by round. If you don't think the fight was close I'd at least like to see your 8 wide GGG rounds.


The rounds don't have to be "wide". The rounds need only be clear in order to determine a clear victor. Now you're just trying to change the narrative and justify why Golovkin was robbed and why we even had to sit around waiting for Clenelo to fail a drug test, while training for a fight we didn't even need to see.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

nuclear said:


> thing about that fight was how long canelo delayed it
> 
> "we dont fuck around!"
> 
> ...


*Has Golovkin had another birthday yet?


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> The rounds don't have to be "wide". The rounds need only be clear in order to determine a clear victor. Now you're just trying to change the narrative and justify why Golovkin was robbed and why we even had to sit around waiting for Clenelo to fail a drug test, while training for a fight we didn't even need to see.


Ok, fine, give us the 8 clear rounds Stevie.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

nuclear said:


> thing about that fight was how long canelo delayed it
> 
> "we dont fuck around!"
> 
> ...


Exactly. We could have had the first fight AND a rematch by now, with a relatively fresh GGG ready to take on Charlo or something.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

nuclear said:


> thing about that fight was how long canelo delayed it
> 
> "we dont fuck around!"
> 
> ...


:rofl:rofl

That shit was fucken cringe man.

I woulda had more respect for them if they outright said "we're not ready for Golovkin."


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Ok, fine, give us the 8 clear rounds Stevie.


What's even the point? You are entitled to your own view of the fight, but just about everyone knows GGG won the fight. The "draw" should tell you all you need to know about the true result. If Clenelo had truly won, he'd have gotten it on the cards.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> What's even the point? You are entitled to your own view of the fight, but just about everyone knows GGG won the fight. The "draw" should tell you all you need to know about the true result. If Clenelo and truly won, he'd have gotten it on the cards.


All I said was that the fight was close, and you objected to that. So I asked for your 8 clear rounds.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> All I said was that the fight was close, and you objected to that. So I asked for your 8 clear rounds.


4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11.

That's seven, off hand. The rounds were completely dictated by GGG as he was often the one to start and end the exchanges while Canelo fought completely off the back foot and never imposed his will in those rounds.

That's five rounds left, and the rounds Canelo won weren't anywhere near as "wide" or decisive as those rounds were. Every single round that Alvarez won could have conceivably gone the other way.

It's completely subjective so it doesn't really matter, but we aren't waiting for rematch right now because people don't know who won the first fight; we're waiting because of a fixed result that served to guarantee a rematch.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11.
> 
> That's seven, off hand. The rounds were completely dictated by GGG as he was often the one to start and end the exchanges while Canelo fought completely off the back foot and never imposed his will in those rounds.
> 
> ...


So if I give one of those round to Canelo, we'd have a draw...

It is subjective, so giving one of those rounds to Canelo isn't out of the question.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> So if I give one of those round to Canelo, we'd have a draw...
> 
> It is subjective, so giving one of those rounds to Canelo isn't out of the question.


Smh... so then why ask how I scored the fight if you were going to use that reply for whatever response I gave you? In a competitive fight, there is going to be give and take. Over twelve rounds, one can always say "take this round or two and give it to the other guy and you have a draw", but that is a disingenuous way of scoring the totality of a fight. Yes, 8-4 can become 6-6 if if you see a fight a certain way. It can also become 10-2, though, and so we are left to simply score the fight as we saw it and not play with hypothetical scoring scenarios.


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Fight is looking like it's cancelled (in Vegas at least). I seriously think this is getting moved to Texas. Canelo is a maverick. No way he takes the suspension.

I can easily see him bringing in a top WW like Shawn Porter or Danny Garcia to replace GGG, if GGG chooses not to fight.

Actually, just read @Pedrin1787's post. I didn't know it's a nationwide ban. Canelo is fucked then. He can fight in Mexico, but damn, not sure...


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

This is bullshit.

This has robbed us of the best fight of the year and possibly Roman Gonzalez's return.

Fuck the NSAC, let them fight.


----------



## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

The GGG saga really has done Canelo some irreperable damage. And it's not just the drugs issue alone. Everything from day dot. 

They delay the fight for a good number of years
Hope on GGG getting old (which he kinda' does)
Still feel the need to buy out one judge to salvage a draw
Resort to using PEDs (and lie about it) for the second fight

Rematch will likely be delayed for _another _year at the very least. That'll almost be two years after the first encounter, where GGG slips even more.
That's just disgraceful. Though very unlikely, I hope GGG rules out all possibilites of a rematch - regardless of when it is. Whether it's his age, corrupt judges, or illegal drugs....he just keeps having these things stacked against him. Any normal person would be fed up of this shit by now and be done with it all.


----------



## Havik (Jun 4, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> ESPN is saying this fight is basically canceled.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/979492272520736771
> All of those (including me) complaining about corruption can stfu now.


The complaint is here in full FWIW:

https://www.scribd.com/document/375116672/Alvarez-Saul-Canelo-NAC-Complaint#from_embed


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> So if I give one of those round to Canelo, we'd have a draw...
> 
> It is subjective, so giving one of those rounds to Canelo isn't out of the question.


What a stupid argument we have going on here.

:lol:


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> What a stupid argument we have going on here.
> 
> :lol:


You're welcome to discuss BobDigi.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Mexi-Box said:


> Fight is looking like it's cancelled (in Vegas at least). I seriously think this is getting moved to Texas. Canelo is a maverick. No way he takes the suspension.
> 
> I can easily see him bringing in a top WW like Shawn Porter or Danny Garcia to replace GGG, if GGG chooses not to fight.
> 
> Actually, just read @Pedrin1787's post. I didn't know it's a nationwide ban. Canelo is fucked then. He can fight in Mexico, but damn, not sure...


That's some bullshit. Test positive for a steroid only to attempt to move it to another state in hopes of saving the date. Part of the reason why Boxing is the most corrupt sport in the world. It be another black eye for the sport if it happened that way.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> You're welcome to discuss BobDigi.


Hell no. Argue whether the fight was close or not? No thanks.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Ivan Drago said:


> This is bullshit.
> 
> This has robbed us of the best fight of the year and possibly Roman Gonzalez's return.
> 
> Fuck the NSAC, let them fight.


Hey dumbass this is Clenelo's fault not NSAC.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> Hell no. Argue whether the fight was close or not? No thanks.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> Hey dumbass this is Clenelo's fault not NSAC.


Gs:

GGG
WBC
California State Athletic Commission
New York State Athletic Commision
Siri Salido
Danny Garcia

Limp wristed pussies:

Nevada State Athletic Commision
Bob Bennett
DrunkenHoe aka @Drunkenboat


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> Hey dumbass this is Clenelo's fault not NSAC.


Fuck up.

There's case history of at least two other mexican boxers being allowed to fight after positive tests for Clenbuterol yet we are likely getting robbed of this, the biggest fight of the year.

I want to see it so I'm pissed that it looks unlikely to go ahead. He's testing clean, they should let it go ahead IMO.


----------



## Rebel-INS (Jul 18, 2012)

Ivan Drago said:


> Fuck up.
> 
> There's case history of at least two other mexican boxers being allowed to fight after positive tests for Clenbuterol yet we are likely getting robbed of this, the biggest fight of the year.
> 
> I want to see it so I'm pissed that it looks unlikely to go ahead. He's testing clean, they should let it go ahead IMO.


He failed two tests, why shouldn't he be banned from fighting? Everyone wants to see the fight but he shouldn't get away with it.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

I'm just happy to see the aftermath.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Ivan Drago said:


> Fuck up.
> 
> There's case history of at least two other mexican boxers being allowed to fight after positive tests for Clenbuterol yet we are likely getting robbed of this, the biggest fight of the year.
> 
> I want to see it so I'm pissed that it looks unlikely to go ahead. He's testing clean, they should let it go ahead IMO.


Fanboy logic.


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Rebel-INS said:


> He failed two tests, why shouldn't he be banned from fighting? Everyone wants to see the fight but he shouldn't get away with it.


Where is this second failure coming from? What second test did he fail?


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> Where is this second failure coming from? What second test did he fail?


He failed a test on a Monday and then on that Wednesday for the same drug is basically what he's saying. Very misleading statement.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Rebel-INS said:


> He failed two tests, why shouldn't he be banned from fighting? Everyone wants to see the fight but he shouldn't get away with it.


Fine the fuck out of him, and suspend him afterwards, simple as that. If GGG and his team have no problem wanting the fight, then what's the big deal?


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> Fanboy logic.


Why does it always have to be black and white?

So Canelo had some Clen in him months before the fight. At best thats gonna give him a slightly better training camp, but thats about it. All traces left his body weeks ago.

Why is it wrong to have the opinion that the fight should go on? If GGG agrees to it just as Salido and Garcia agreed to it, whats the problem?

To be clear, I think its completely fair if he gets suspended, its on him to watch what he takes in. But, I think the timing and the substance can be taken into account too.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Fine the fuck out of him, and suspend him afterwards, simple as that. If GGG and his team have no problem wanting the fight, then what's the big deal?


Because he had a banned substance in his system and you can reap the benefits from it. Having some illegal shit in his system gives him an advantage going into the fight. It's not a level playing field.

What kinda commission would let a fighter override their rules and decision making? That's not how you run shit.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Why does it always have to be black and white?
> 
> So Canelo had some Clen in him months before the fight. At best thats gonna give him a slightly better training camp, but thats about it. All traces left his body weeks ago.
> 
> ...


You said yourself it's going to enhance his training camp. We're not talking protein powder we're talking about a steroid here.

I don't know at the moment if Salido and Garcia we're allowed to fight people who had clen in their system leading into the fight, but I don't think commissions should be dictated by fighter's opinion. If your not part of the commission you shouldn't have a say in the decision making.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Honestly GGG should ask for extra money and go with the fight. We're not talking about epo, testosterone or amphetamines here. Plus Canelo has passed every test since.


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

Fight cancelled? Just another reason to hate this ginger pussy bitch.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> You said yourself it's going to enhance his training camp. We're not talking protein powder we're talking about a steroid here.
> 
> *I don't know at the moment if Salido and Garcia we're allowed to fight people who had clen in their system leading into the fight*, but I don't think commissions should be dictated by fighter's opinion. If your not part of the commission you shouldn't have a say in the decision making.


They did.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

I read the rules they have in place allow a minimum of a six month ban from the positive test. They gotta follow the rule book. It's about principal and values.

Some of you would like the NSAC to not follow their own rules when it comes to two positive test for a steroid :lol:


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Uncle Rico said:


> The GGG saga really has done Canelo some irreperable damage. And it's not just the drugs issue alone. Everything from day dot.
> 
> They delay the fight for a good number of years
> Hope on GGG getting old (which he kinda' does)
> ...



They delay the fight for a good number of years *Canelo became Middle weight champ on 
2015-11-21, and fought GGG on 2017-09-16, so you saying a good number of years doesn't add up as it wasn't even a full 2 years before they fought after everyone was clamoring for it when he beat Cotto and stepped into the middle weight world. Prior to the Cotto win Canelo was nice to mention as a future opponent but not in each others radar just yet. 1 1/2 year turn around on a super fight is actually quite amazing from past experiences where super fights take ages to make.*


Hope on GGG getting old (which he kinda' does) *Technically GGG has been old since he hit his 30's as you are physically prime around 28-30, but was not yet prime in regards to experience as he was going life and death against the likes of Ouma in his "Prime" and actually looked quite skinny and not yet matured in his physical presence.. you look at him now and he looks like a beast strong, hard, and big able to muscle you around, that GGG was not around in his "Prime".*
Still feel the need to buy out one judge to salvage a draw *One judge clearly received an incentive but the 2 other judges had it correct in regards to how close the fight was.*


Resort to using PEDs (and lie about it) for the second fight *At this point, being caught with that clen Canelo should submit to year round testing to prove his innocence but we shouldn't discount that tainted meat in mexico is an issue which canelo's team not being careful could have been affected from.*


Rematch will likely be delayed for _another _year at the very least. That'll almost be two years after the first encounter, where GGG slips even more. *I hope the fight still proceeds, but in the rare event that it doesn't the fight being delayed until September would be the best bet. **GGG slipping is a fairy tale, feed him a cab driver (willie monroe jr, wade, ishida, adama) all the while HBO commentary (propaganda) is telling you this guy is superhuman and then he is in his "Prime" feed him guy's with actual skill Brook, Jacobs, Canelo and GGG is now "Slipping". Cry me a river, poor GGG never has the upper hand Canelo should have fought GGG when he was 19 in the welter weight division and when GGG was going life and death with OUMA only then would Canelo get any credit for beating a "Prime" GGG. Let me know when you wake up from your fantasy.*


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> Because he had a banned substance in his system and you can reap the benefits from it. Having some illegal shit in his system gives him an advantage going into the fight. It's not a level playing field.
> 
> What kinda commission would let a fighter override their rules and decision making? That's not how you run shit.


Morales and Vargas got busted with the same shit. Didn't make a single difference in their fights.


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> They delay the fight for a good number of years *Canelo became Middle weight champ on
> 2015-11-21, and fought GGG on 2017-09-16, so you saying a good number of years doesn't add up as it wasn't even a full 2 years before they fought after everyone was clamoring for it when he beat Cotto and stepped into the middle weight world. Prior to the Cotto win Canelo was nice to mention as a future opponent but not in each others radar just yet. 1 1/2 year turn around on a super fight is actually quite amazing from past experiences where super fights take ages to make.*
> 
> Hope on GGG getting old (which he kinda' does) *Technically GGG has been old since he hit his 30's as you are physically prime around 28-30, but was not yet prime in regards to experience as he was going life and death against the likes of Ouma in his "Prime" and actually looked quite skinny and not yet matured in his physical presence.. you look at him now and he looks like a beast strong, hard, and big able to muscle you around, that GGG was not around in his "Prime".*
> ...


Slurp slurp mothafucka


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> They did.


They are within their right, but it's looking doubtful they will do the same. It's 2018 and commissions are supposed to evolve and get better. Every case is different, but from what I've seen the levels Canelo had we're a lot higher than those who tested positive before him.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> but from what I've seen the levels Canelo had we're a lot higher than those who tested positive before him.


Do you know that for sure?


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> Do you know that for sure?


They tested this guy and his level was waaaaay less then Canelos.


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

Bjj_Boxer said:


> Fight cancelled? Just another reason to hate this ginger pussy bitch.


What's the opposite of "fan boy logic"?


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> Honestly GGG should ask for extra money and go with the fight. We're not talking about epo, testosterone or amphetamines here. Plus Canelo has passed every test since.


Clenbuterol has a similar effect to amphetamines :lol:

NSAC already said they won't be dictated by money so you can forget about that. Contracts are in place and I don't think GBP could give more money to GGG if they tried. GGG needs to let the commission do their job, train, and stay focused on that. He doesn't owe us anything and if the commission is doing their job he'd have no say either way.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Do you know that for sure?


Like 99% sure. Someone posted a comparison of clenbuterol levels. From that list Canelo's was higher than anyone elses.


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

ElKiller said:


> What's the opposite of "fan boy logic"?


Realistic


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> Clenbuterol has a similar effect to amphetamines :lol:
> 
> NSAC already said they won't be dictated by money so you can forget about that. Contracts are in place and I don't think GBP could give more money to GGG if they tried. GGG needs to let the commission do their job, train, and stay focused on that. He doesn't owe us anything and if the commission is doing their job he'd have no say either way.


I'm speaking from GGG's team perspective. The NSAC should just wait to see what Canelo's team says come April 18


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> Like 99% sure. Someone posted a comparison of clenbuterol levels. From that list Canelo's was higher than anyone elses.


Again, you're talking about the list of European and Chinese Cyclists.

Try a little harder.


----------



## Lampley (Jun 4, 2013)

Per Fat Dan, the fight basically is dead. The other discouraging aspect of his most recent chat is that HBO evidently plans to keep the date for GGG — on PPV — against a replacement opponent. Any non-Canelo PPV on May 5 will draw flies.


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

Bjj_Boxer said:


> Realistic


NO, Your hate for someone you don't know and doesn't even know you exist is anything but '"realistic'

Try again!


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Lampley said:


> Per Fat Dan, the fight basically is dead. The other discouraging aspect of his most recent chat is that HBO evidently plans to keep the date for GGG - on PPV - against a replacement opponent. Any non-Canelo PPV on May 5 will draw flies.


Fat dan is a dumb ass he is selling himself by trying to be the first to report its done when in reality nothing of the sort has been official. He can post all these things such as refunds, HBO removed from schedule, Fathom removed from schedule, but until NSAC has their final verdict its all speculation. Either Canelo is made an example of, or the fight goes on with heavy fines. 2 other boxers were allowed to continue so by that Canelo should be allowed to continue...


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Doc said:


> Fat dan is a dumb ass he is selling himself by trying to be the first to report its done when in reality nothing of the sort has been official. He can post all these things such as refunds, HBO removed from schedule, Fathom removed from schedule, but until NSAC has their final verdict its all speculation. Either Canelo is made an example of, or the fight goes on with heavy fines. 2 other boxers were allowed to continue so by that Canelo should be allowed to continue...


I agree about Fat Dan, but the other two cases weren't in Nevada. If you read the complaint from NSAC it looks like Bob wants to hand out a suspension....


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

ElKiller said:


> NO, Your hate for someone you don't know and doesn't even know you exist is anything but '"realistic'
> 
> Try again!


Lol....keep swinging on those nuts


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

Bjj_Boxer said:


> Lol....keep swinging on those nuts


Inductive reasoning from a one-trick pony.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hang in there, Canelo:


> Mayweather: Canelo Should Be Allowed To Fight Golovkin!
> 
> "I'm not here to say anything bad about Triple G, or anything bad about Canelo. I think the fight still should happen. If they put the fight somewhere else [if they don't allow it in Las Vegas]... if he got busted or whatever he did. Say he got busted, from here all the way to the fight - there should be random blood and urine testing and they should fight"


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Doc said:


> Fat dan is a dumb ass he is selling himself by trying to be the first to report its done when in reality nothing of the sort has been official. He can post all these things such as refunds, HBO removed from schedule, Fathom removed from schedule, but until NSAC has their final verdict its all speculation. Either Canelo is made an example of, or the fight goes on with heavy fines. 2 other boxers were allowed to continue so by that Canelo should be allowed to continue...


 true that fat dick was saying that Mayweather vs Pacquiao was dead and Floyd was rematching Cotto.

Lance Pugmire is my homie.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Again, you're talking about the list of European and Chinese Cyclists.
> 
> Try a little harder.


Just answer the question. If you don't know the answer then say so, but wasn't Canelo's level of clenbuterol higher than anyone elses? Both boxers and cyclists.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> I'm speaking from GGG's team perspective.


I knew that. They are entitled to their own opinion, but the decision shouldn't be up to anyone not on the NSAC.



bballchump11 said:


> The NSAC should just wait to see what Canelo's team says come April 18


I'm almost certain they will say it's tainted meat like they've claimed from the get go. If it wasn't tainted meat it would be wise to not admit the truth.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> Just answer the question. If you don't know the answer then say so, but wasn't Canelo's level of clenbuterol higher than anyone elses? Both boxers and cyclists.


No, that list had cyclists from Europe and Asia, not a single case of Mexican beef.

You have to do your own research you can't rely on these morons.

Fransisco Vargas had a high level of 1.3 ng/ml, thats 1300 picograms per ml.

I couldn't find Morales' levels, but there was that u17 soccer tournament in Mexico where 19 outta 24 teams tested positive. Highest level tested among them was at 1550 pg/ml if I remember correctly.

These were all cases tied to Mexican meat.


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

Rebel-INS said:


> He failed two tests, why shouldn't he be banned from fighting? Everyone wants to see the fight but he shouldn't get away with it.


Basically the bullshit drugs testing system in boxing is infuriating.

If he can't prove to their satisfaction that it was meat consumption then fair enough ban him.

However why not test him until the fight to ensure he's clean and set a disciplinary hearing after. There have been plenty of fights which were allowed to go ahead after anti-doping violations.

Let's look at two similar cases:

Morales tested positive for clenbuterol however the NYSAC took no action and the fight was allowed to go ahead. USADA later implemented a two year ban.

Francisco Vargas tested positive with twice the amount of clebuterol in his system than Canelo's adverse test. The CSAC decided to give a temporary boxing licence and allow the fight to go ahead and no further action was taken.

However in this case the NSAC has suspended Canelo and has set a disciplinary hearing before the fight meaning if there are any sanctions then we the bout will get postponed.

So there we have 3 cases of Mexican boxers testing positive for the same substance (a substance known to be present in meat in their native country) and three vastly different outcomes.

It seems these processes differ vastly depending on which organisation, athletic commission and drug testing agency is involved. There is zero transparency or consistency.

If it's okay for Vargas and Morales then fuck it, I want to see this fight.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> Fine the fuck out of him, and suspend him afterwards, simple as that. If GGG and his team have no problem wanting the fight, then what's the big deal?


What good is a suspension when guys are fighting once a year, anyway?

The point of testing is to deter fighters from cheating. Fining and suspending him for a time that he would already be inactive does nothing when the guy already gets paid millions for the fight and gets the added advantage of having drugs in his system during training.

GGG wanting the fight has absolutely nothing to do with it.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> What good is a suspension when guys are fighting once a year, anyway?
> 
> The point of testing is to deter fighters from cheating. Fining and suspending him for a time that he would already be inactive does nothing when the guy already gets paid millions for the fight and gets the added advantage of having drugs in his system during training.
> 
> GGG wanting the fight has absolutely nothing to do with it.


Nobody likes losing money. Give him a nice big fine and you bet he'll think about it next time. Morales and Vargas both were allowed to fight, and that Clen didn't make really help them at all in their fights.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> Nobody likes losing money. Give him a nice big fine and you bet he'll think about it next time. Morales and Vargas both were allowed to fight, and that Clen didn't make really help them at all in their fights.


How much is he getting paid to fight GGG? Would a fine approach anywhere close to that? Who would mind losing a million if they got twenty back? I swear you guys haven't thought this out.


----------



## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

Mike Conley gets paid more to sit on the bench than Canelo does to fight GGG twice


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> How much is he getting paid to fight GGG? Would a fine approach anywhere close to that? Who would mind losing a million if they got twenty back? I swear you guys haven't thought this out.


I don't know how much he's getting paid, but fine him a good percentage from his purse. They could give part of it to GGG.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> I don't know how much he's getting paid, but fine him a good percentage from his purse. They could give part of it to GGG.


He likely cleared at least 30 million for that first fight, once the gate and PPV buys were factored in. Gennady made out pretty nicely, too. _Of course_ he wants the payday again, no matter what.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> No, that list had cyclists from Europe and Asia, not a single case of Mexican beef.
> 
> You have to do your own research you can't rely on these morons.
> 
> ...


How much clenbuterol did Canelo have in his system? If you know please share. I didn't spend too much time searching on internet, but I know Canelo's level was posted in this thread. I can look myself if you can't provide that for us.

It's my understanding NSAC wants Canelo to prove the clenbuterol came from meat. Just because he's Mexican doesn't automatically make this a case of tainted meat!


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> How much clenbuterol did Canelo have in his system? If you know please share. I didn't spend too much time searching on internet, but I know Canelo's level was posted in this thread. I can look myself if you can't provide that for us.
> 
> It's my understanding NSAC wants Canelo to prove the clenbuterol came from meat. Just because he's Mexican doesn't automatically make this a case of tainted meat!


You're like 15 pages behind man, ain't nobody got time for that.

No, the complaint NSAC made clearly states why they're doing what they're doing.

""Alvarez's utilization, ingestion and/or consumption of clenbuterol, whether intentional or not, constitutes an anti-doping violation. By his administration or use of clenbuterol, and/or by allowing clenbuterol to enter his system, Alvarez engaged in conduct that reflected discredit to unarmed combat and he is guilty of foul or unsportsmanlike conduct that was detrimental to a contest."

atsch

Talk about jumping in to discuss something you know nothing about.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> You're like 15 pages behind man, ain't nobody got time for that.
> 
> No, the complaint NSAC made clearly states why they're doing what they're doing.
> 
> ...












^^This is what I found so far as Canelo's levels. Nothing specific.



dyna said:


> Some of those kids could have very well been on Clen which explains such high concentrations.
> 
> And the study only mentions clen concentrations of up to 11 ug/kg.
> 
> ...


I found this to be quite revealing at the time. I don't know if @dyna made any errors here, but it's my understanding that Canelo had to have been eating 2 pounds of meat day after day in order to reach such levels unknowingly. If there is something wrong in what I just said, let me know without being a little bitch about it. Because the tainted meat excuse still seems unlikely.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> ^^This is what I found so far as Canelo's levels. Nothing specific.
> 
> I found this to be quite revealing at the time. I don't know if @dyna made any errors here, but it's my understanding that Canelo had to have been eating 2 pounds of meat day after day in order to reach such levels unknowingly. If their is something wrong in what I just said, let me know without being a little bitch about it. Because the tainted meat excuse still seems unlikely.


Nothing specific? LMAO, read dude.

Dyna at least gave us something to back up his argument.

Keep reading, that shit is from 1985, there was one done 10 years later that had humans testing up to 850 pg/ml from tainted meat. It depends on the level found in the meat, which can vary depending on how long the cow was given the substance.

To catch you up, Canelo's levels are within tainted meat contamination levels, but NSAC is arguing that it doesn't matter how the clen was ingested. It's the athletes responsibility to stay clean.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

What does it matter if it was within "tainted meat" levels, anyway?

What if that level is still high enough to give an athlete an edge?
What if some athletes really enjoys steak, and eats it every day? His "excusable" level could then be off the charts.

And besides, rich athletes should know better, and can afford to import their steak. (Or be smart enough to not eat red meat in the first place.)


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/3/...-steroids-ng-ml-ggg-vada-wada-ped-failed-test


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> What does it matter if it was within "tainted meat" levels, anyway?
> 
> What if that level is still high enough to give an athlete an edge?
> What if some athletes really enjoys steak, and eats it every day? His "excusable" level could then be off the charts.
> ...


Thats a fair point, and it looks like NSAC is taking that stance.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/3/...-steroids-ng-ml-ggg-vada-wada-ped-failed-test


This thing helps my argument more than it does yours.


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> To catch you up, Canelo's levels are within tainted meat contamination levels, but NSAC is arguing that it doesn't matter how the clen was ingested. It's the athletes responsibility to stay clean.


I realized that a while ago. I would agree with NSAC here and that Clenelo should have a good alibi for testing positive. We shall see.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> I realized that a while ago. I would agree with NSAC here and that Clenelo should have a good alibi for testing positive. We shall see.


Well good for you, I recall you posting something about Canelos levels being "higher than everyones!"

All based on some stupid list for clen levels on cyclists in Europe and China.


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> This thing helps my argument more than it does yours.


That's all good with me I'm not trying to win an argument here :lol:. I'm here for new info on the topic and discussions.


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Well good for you, I recall you posting something about Canelos levels being "higher than everyones!"
> 
> All based on some stupid list for clen levels on cyclists in Europe and China.


You need to calm down and change that avatar.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> You need to calm down and change that avatar.


I do, my month is up.

It's about time too, with all the homos in here my profile views and follows skyrocketed.


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I do, my month is up.
> 
> It's about time too, with all the homos in here my profile views and follows skyrocketed.


No, seriously. I think the avatar bets like that hurt everyone. I had my dad walk into my room while I was reading something you posted. I had to scroll down really fast. Hard to explain that I'm not on some *** forum and also hard to explain that you lost a bet. Anyways, your avatar fucking sucks.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> No, seriously. I think the avatar bets like that hurt everyone. I had my dad walk into my room while I was reading something you posted. I had to scroll down really fast. Hard to explain that I'm not on some *** forum and also hard to explain that you lost a bet. Anyways, your avatar fucking sucks.


:rofl:rofl:rofl


----------



## Casual Benson's Unknown (Jun 5, 2012)

Not kept up with this at all, does it look bad for canelo or does the contaminated meat thing seem plausible?


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> No, seriously. I think the avatar bets like that hurt everyone. I had my dad walk into my room while I was reading something you posted. I had to scroll down really fast. *Hard to explain that I'm not on some *** forum* and also hard to explain that you lost a bet. Anyways, your avatar fucking sucks.


Especially with your dick in your hand.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

rjjfan said:


> Especially with your dick in your hand.


:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Brickfists (Oct 17, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> He likely cleared at least 30 million for that first fight, once the gate and PPV buys were factored in. Gennady made out pretty nicely, too. _Of course_ he wants the payday again, no matter what.


What split of the gate do the fighters get ?


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Brickfists said:


> What split of the gate do the fighters get ?


Well, it's negotiated into the contract and hard to pinpoint. Still, they did a very impressive 27 million at the gate (third highest live gate of all time) and you know both guys got a few million from there, Canelo slightly more.

But the real money is in the PPV buys and they did 1.3 million there, which, again, is an impressive figure. Both guys made exponentially more than their guaranteed purses and were in line to do even better this time around.

You can understand why GGG was so upset about the positive test and couldn't keep his mouth shut. Canelo messed up his pay day.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

I don't think fight is going through, too much eyes on boxing's credibility canelo will be made an example. Fight will be postponed until september I have convinced myself so the disappointment won't be as severe.

Carry on...


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

^ Good stuff from Timmeh. I think he's got a good future ahead as a trainer.

Cracking up, though, every time he said "Gellady."


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Fuck these meaningless suspensions.

I'll say it again:

When a fighter gets caught, even if he has a "plausible" excuse, he should get FINED. Maybe half of his entire next purse (all ancillary income included) would be taken, with maybe half given to VADA and USADA for operational costs, and half to go into a fund that helps injured fighters.

Suspension, my ass.......


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> Fuck these meaningless suspensions.
> 
> I'll say it again:
> 
> ...


Paulie's video above addresses this point.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/981247057955577861
Last time Fat Dan used so many exclamation points was when McDonalds brought back the McRib.


----------



## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

Kind of hope they still show the face off. This one looked like it was going to be interesting.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/981247057955577861
> Last time Fat Dan used so many exclamation points was when McDonalds brought back the McRib.


The NSAC aren't as corrupt as I thought.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

@Drunkenboat 
I see you already changed your avy back ****.

I'll give you a new one to rock come September.


----------



## church11 (Jun 6, 2013)

Fuck


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Damn, it's actually off? Crazy..


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

I was ready for this since yesterday, as my hopes were on it proceeding now i have to wait for September for Canelo to kick GGGs ass again.

:yep


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Its for the best really. Someone coulda gotten killed!!!!!!!!


----------



## uraharakisuke (May 16, 2013)

Hearing a possible 6 month suspension? If so that is a terrible deterrent/punishment.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Oh well, could always save up a little bit of money.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Its for the best really. Someone coulda gotten killed!!!!!!!!


Could someone _not_ have gotten killed?


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Could someone _not_ have gotten killed?


The gif in my post should tell you what I think about that.


----------



## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

Doc said:


> I was ready for this since yesterday, as my hopes were on it proceeding now i have to wait for September for Canelo to kick GGGs ass again.
> 
> :yep


Again? What fight did you see?


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> The gif in my post should tell you what I think about that.


If it's not too much bother, I'd like to hear it from you. Put down your brittle gif mask and tell me what _you_ think.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> If it's not too much bother, I'd like to hear it from you. Put down your brittle gif mask and tell me what _you_ think.


No, well no more risks than in a normal fight.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

So Canelo had 600ng of this shit in his system and failed 2 tests while passing every other one.

I know 600 has been argued to death as being higher than previous fighters who ate contaminated meat. How much is the actual recommended amount to take and how much do you need to take to see any benefits. It seems to me that if Canelo got any benefit, it's very negligible.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> No, well no more risks than in a normal fight.


Spoken like a true keyboard warrior. It's not your life on the line so it's all good.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> So Canelo had 600ng of this shit in his system and failed 2 tests while passing every other one.
> 
> I know 600 has been argued to death as being higher than previous fighters who ate contaminated meat. How much is the actual recommended amount to take and how much do you need to take to see any benefits. It seems to me that if Canelo got any benefit, it's very negligible.


There's no way of knowing the benefit because we weren't allowed to see his performance this time around, nor do we know for certain if he was clean in all of his preceding fights.

IMO, testing positive for drugs should place ALL of your recent performances under the same cloud of suspicion.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> So Canelo had 600ng of this shit in his system and failed 2 tests while passing every other one.
> 
> I know 600 has been argued to death as being higher than previous fighters who ate contaminated meat. How much is the actual recommended amount to take and how much do you need to take to see any benefits. It seems to me that if Canelo got any benefit, it's very negligible.


It isn't higher though. From what I've read, Francisco Vargas had double of what Canelo got busted with.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Let's see how many people jump on Canelo. Like they should...


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> So Canelo had 600ng of this shit in his system and failed 2 tests while passing every other one.
> 
> I know 600 has been argued to death as being higher than previous fighters who ate contaminated meat. How much is the actual recommended amount to take and how much do you need to take to see any benefits. It seems to me that if Canelo got any benefit, it's very negligible.


Fuck's sake man. This guy got given a draw against your favourite fighter when he was absolutely schooled by him. He got given a gift when he lost a close fight against your second favourite fighter. He's now failed a drugs test and you're _still_ making excuses for him?

One day I hope to love someone as much as you hate Golovkin. Put aside the tribal partisanship. Don't you have _any_ respect for sportsmanship and fairness at all? Even just a little bit? You're backing the most corrupt player in the game.

This guy _drew_ with Mayweather on one of the judge's cards ffs. Remember that. What does Floyd think of that?


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> So Canelo had 600ng of this shit in his system and failed 2 tests while passing every other one.
> 
> I know 600 has been argued to death as being higher than previous fighters who ate contaminated meat. How much is the actual recommended amount to take and how much do you need to take to see any benefits. It seems to me that if Canelo got any benefit, it's very negligible.


I'm tired of repeating this but:

1. He DID NOT come back higher than all athletes that have alledgedly ate tainted meat. Vargas came back with a 1300 pg/ml before his Salido fight. Kids in the U17 soccer tournament came back with levels as high as 1500 pg/ml.

We don't have numbers for Morales for the Garcia fight, or for NFL player Duane Brown.

2. The 2nd failed test had a much smaller amount, this makes sense because the test was a day or two later. Clenbutero halflife is like 30 something hours if I remember correctly.

3. We don't know if he went through a full cycle or not, but considering he moved camp to the US when he tested positive, and if suspension wasn't given he'd get stricter testing for the remainder of camp, I'd say the benefits would've been fairly minimal.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> It isn't higher though. From what I've read, Francisco Vargas had double of what Canelo got busted with.


The actual amount means little because of the relatively short half life of Clen. The governing bodies simply can't be sure whether this was the highest amount present in his body, or if it was broken down from an even higher level. There is literally no way of knowing, which is why they can't simply brush it away.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Spoken like a true keyboard warrior. It's not your life on the line so it's all good.


No I just like to do a bit of reading before making ridiculous assumptions about things I know nothing about.

Yes the Clen would've provided an unfair advantage at certain levels, even if it was ingested with beef.

But that does not mean that this specific substance, clenbuterol, would provide a superhuman like speed/strenght advantage, months later, that would put the other fighter in danger, IMO.

Look at the Fransisco Vargas case.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> It isn't higher though. From what I've read, Francisco Vargas had double of what Canelo got busted with.


can't find anything on the test levels, but everybody says the same thing. canelo's pulling out, vargas had no intention and neither did salido. in a much lower profile fight admittedly...


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> can't find anything on the test levels, but everybody says the same thing. canelo's pulling out, vargas had no intention and neither did salido. in a much lower profile fight admittedly...


They were both allowed to continue with the fight by California/NY.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> They were both allowed to continue with the fight by California/NY.


and canelo pullin out.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> and canelo pullin out.


No, by all accounts Nevada was going to suspend him, cancelling the bout anyway.

They decided to cut their losses early from what I understand.


----------



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> So Canelo had 600ng of this shit in his system and failed 2 tests while passing every other one.
> 
> I know 600 has been argued to death as being higher than previous fighters who ate contaminated meat. How much is the actual recommended amount to take and how much do you need to take to see any benefits. It seems to me that if Canelo got any benefit, it's very negligible.


In that case every fighter should just measure 600pg and gulp it down. I'll make 600 pg tablets and sell it for a killing.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> The actual amount means little because of the relatively short half life of Clen. The governing bodies simply can't be sure whether this was the highest amount present in his body, or if it was broken down from an even higher level. There is literally no way of knowing.


True. This is often mentioned but important to repeat. The amount of clen in his system clearly didn't exceed the maximum amount possible to be in someone's system via meat contamination. If it did then it would be an open and shut case. It doesn't matter how much clen is in his system. If its lower than the absolute maximum that could be in his system via meat contamination then there will never be any way of knowing whether he ingested it intentionally or not.

The issue should be whether negligence should be a defense. He could very easily have consumed contaminated meat knowing that it was contaminated. He knew that contaminated meat was a country-wide-high-profile issue and not just a random risk so what's his defense against not taking the expected precautions?


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> They were both allowed to continue with the fight by California/NY.


IIRC, Vargas had passed tests on April 15th and 16th before failing on the 21st. Still, it would have been perfectly appropriate to cancel the fight.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> No, by all accounts Nevada was going to suspend him, cancelling the bout anyway.
> 
> They decided to cut their losses early from what I understand.


You go all the way to last possible option with this. You don't try to head them off at the pass, muthafucka. You keep on the same way you been doin til its over. Now there's no bluff to call. But you still keep at it as if there's nothing wrong. Make them suspended you. Then it will be partly on the commission for getting in the way even though its his fault...

#Believethelie


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> No I just like to do a bit of reading before making ridiculous assumptions about things I know nothing about.
> 
> Yes the Clen would've provided an unfair advantage at certain levels, even if it was ingested with beef.
> 
> ...


I'll let you in on a little secret. You don't need superhuman powers to end someone's life as the result of a boxing match.

Organisations don't pick banned substances "out of their ass", as you like to say. If one fighter has an unfair advantage then they increase their chances of a fatal outcome.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> IIRC, Vargas had passed tests on April 15th and 16th before failing on the 21st. Still, it would have been perfectly appropriate to cancel the fight.


Salido is reaching God levels now.

Not only did he hand the Greatest of all Time Vasyl Lomachenko his one and only loss.

But he also faced a roided to the gills Fransisco Vargas, and not only made it out of the bout alive, but he managed to grind out a draw.

What a god damn G.


----------



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

The Sweet Science said:


> Again? What fight did you see?


The one on the TV built in Mexico.


----------



## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

bballchump11 said:


> So Canelo had 600ng of this shit in his system and failed 2 tests while passing every other one.
> 
> I know 600 has been argued to death as being higher than previous fighters who ate contaminated meat. How much is the actual recommended amount to take and how much do you need to take to see any benefits. It seems to me that if Canelo got any benefit, it's very negligible.


600-800 pg in his system. Taking the lower end and ignoring the higher is just dumb. 


Pedrin1787 said:


> I'm tired of repeating this but:
> 
> 1. He DID NOT come back higher than all athletes that have alledgedly ate tainted meat. Vargas came back with a 1300 pg/ml before his Salido fight. Kids in the U17 soccer tournament came back with levels as high as 1500 pg/ml.
> 
> ...


Clens half life is 26-48 hours.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> The actual amount means little because of the relatively short half life of Clen. The governing bodies simply can't be sure whether this was the highest amount present in his body, or if it was broken down from an even higher level. There is literally no way of knowing, which is why they can't simply brush it away.


This was the most helpful response. Thank you.

From the little research I've done, they recommend from 20mcg to 140mcg. Canelo had .8mcg in his highest test.

I think GGG could have accepted extra money and still went along with the fight if the nsac allowed it.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

DynamicMoves said:


> 600-800 pg in his system. Taking the lower end and ignoring the higher is just dumb.
> 
> Clens half life is 26-48 hours.


Sorry, I didn't know the exact amount. I've seen people throw out so many numbers in this thread


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> I'll let you in on a little secret. You don't need superhuman powers to end someone's life as the result of a boxing match.
> 
> Organisations don't pick banned substances "out of their ass", as you like to say. If one fighter has an unfair advantage then they increase their chances of a fatal outcome.


Thats like saying that taking a tablet of aspirin more than the "recommended dose" and doing heroin are the same thing because they both increase your risk of overdose.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

rjjfan said:


> In that case every fighter should just measure 600pg and gulp it down. I'll make 600 pg tablets and sell it for a killing.


Canelo should be suspended based on what evidence he puts forth to the nsac in a few weeks. I doubt he gained much benefit however


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Thats like saying that taking a tablet of aspirin more than the "recommended dose" and doing heroin are the same thing because they both increase your risk of overdose.


Nah, you and I both know it's not like saying that. You're weaving strawmen because you know your argument doesn't have legs. Canelo isn't ignorant of what's expected of him.

Let's conduct this fight with both fighters testing negative throughout the whole year yeah? Let's not throw caution to the wind and let positive tests slide because, we'll, its only a bit of meat etc...


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> This was the most helpful response. Thank you.
> 
> From the little research I've done, they recommend from 20mcg to 140mcg. Canelo had .8mcg in his highest test.
> 
> I think GGG could have accepted extra money and still went along with the fight if the nsac allowed it.


Of course he would have. Wouldn't you fight a roided up Canelo on Cinco de Mayo and get that bag? I know I would.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Nah, you and I both know it's not like saying that. You're weaving strawmen because you know your argument doesn't have legs. Canelo isn't ignorant of what's expected of him.
> 
> Let's conduct this fight with both fighters testing negative throughout the whole year yeah? Let's not throw caution to the wind and let positive tests slide because, we'll, its only a bit of meat etc...


You changed the argument.

We're discussing the dangers clenbuterol poses in a boxing match, not whether Canelo broke the rules or not (he did as soon as he tested positive).


----------



## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

bballchump11 said:


> This was the most helpful response. Thank you.
> 
> From the little research I've done, they recommend from 20mcg to 140mcg. Canelo had .8mcg in his highest test.
> 
> *I think GGG could have accepted extra money* *and still went along with the fight* if the nsac allowed it.


Maybe in a banana republic.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

REDC said:


> Maybe in a banana republic.


Like NY and California.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

REDC said:


> Maybe in a banana republic.


What happened with Morales and Danny Garcia


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Ok so he tested for 800pg? That's even less than I thought. 

He had 0.0008mcg in his system.


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

I'm glad the fight is cancelled.

Blatant drug cheats do not deserve to be rewarded in such a dangerous sport.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Ok so he tested for 800pg? That's even less than I thought.
> 
> He had 0.0008mcg in his system.


More than 2 months away from fight night.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> More than 2 months away from fight night.


How many negative results did he have prior to the positive one? Just curious.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> How many negative results did he have prior to the positive one? Just curious.


I don't know, how many positive tests did he have prior to the February tests?


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Of course he would have. Wouldn't you fight a roided up Canelo on Cinco de Mayo and get that bag? I know I would.


lol of course, but it didn't come down to his team though. I think the NSAC did the right thing, but in the UFC, this fight would have still went on.

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/3/...-steroids-ng-ml-ggg-vada-wada-ped-failed-test

*How USADA would handle Canelo's case in the UFC*

Several UFC athletes have tested positive for Clenbuterol, and where those athletes have shown they were in a region with issues of contaminated meat, and where they had results consistent with contaminated meat, they received a finding of "no fault."

A "no fault" finding essentially means the incident is not treated as a positive test at all, and no punishment is given. Brandon Moreno's case, Li Jingliang's case, Ning Guangyou's caseand others all ended with a finding of "no fault." Absent any evidence that Canelo is lying, he would almost certainly have received the same result if the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) was handling his case.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> lol of course, but it didn't come down to his team though. I think the NSAC did the right thing, but in the UFC, this fight would have still went on.
> 
> https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/3/...-steroids-ng-ml-ggg-vada-wada-ped-failed-test
> 
> ...


Surely all those fights took place in banana republics, I mean this @REDC guy really knows his stuff.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> How many negative results did he have prior to the positive one? Just curious.


I really want to know that also. They said he tested positive on February 17th and 20th. When did they test him before that?


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I don't know, how many positive tests did he have prior to the February tests?


I'm asking because I don't know. I was hoping you had read something on the matter.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> I'm asking because I don't know. I was hoping you had read something on the matter.


Oh, na.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> lol of course, but it didn't come down to his team though. I think the NSAC did the right thing, but in the UFC, this fight would have still went on.
> 
> https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/3/...-steroids-ng-ml-ggg-vada-wada-ped-failed-test
> 
> ...


Wasn't it USADA that let Floyd/Pac go on?


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> You changed the argument.
> 
> We're discussing the dangers clenbuterol poses in a boxing match, not whether Canelo broke the rules or not (he did as soon as he tested positive).


Canelo has indeed broken the rules. Nice to see you acknowledge it. But, I'm afraid to tell you, Aspirin isn't the same thing as heroin. Let's discuss something more sensible.

If one or more drugs are banned for being performance enhancing then the danger posed (to the opposition) by taking those drugs starts at the very beginning of them enhancing performance doesn't it?

It doesn't matter if it's a small enhancement or a large enhancement. If that enhancement assists the athlete or is otherwise unobtainable by the athlete by natural means then it is inextricably linked to the outcome of their performance.

You're talking yourself into a corner here.


----------



## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Anyone know of Saunders can be ready by then, cant remember if hes injured or not

https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-withdraws-from-golovkin-rematch-on-5--126834


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I really want to know that also. They said he tested positive on February 17th and 20th. When did they test him before that?


Been looking all over for that, can't find a thing...


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Been looking all over for that, can't find a thing...


That's vital info. If Canelo tested negative on the 15th (hypothetical), and then positive on the 17th and 20th, then it would help clear things up.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> That's vital info. If Canelo tested negative on the 15th (hypothetical), and then positive on the 17th and 20th, then it would help clear things up.


Yeah... it definitely helped Vargas' case. If Canelo managed to fail his first tests administered in a couple of months (or even weeks), it just looks really bad.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Canelo has indeed broken the rules. Nice to see you acknowledge it.


I did that many pages back mate.



> But, I'm afraid to tell you, Aspirin isn't the same thing as heroin.


That is exactly my point, not all banned substances are created equal, what they have in common is that they're all against the rules.



> Let's discuss something more sensible.


OK mate.



> If one or more drugs are banned for being performance enhancing then the danger posed (to the opposition) by taking those drugs starts at the very beginning of them enhancing performance doesn't it?
> 
> It doesn't matter if it's a small enhancement or a large enhancement. If that enhancement assists the athlete or is otherwise unobtainable by the athlete by natural means then it is inextricably linked to the outcome of their performance.
> 
> You're talking yourself into a corner here.


Mate, Canelo got an advantage with the clen they found in him, but I don't think its significant enough to become a dangerous advantage, not dangerous enough where Gennady goes in to the fight fearing for his life.

Is it an unfair advantage? Sure, even if it is minuscule it is unfair, even if its unintentional its is unfair. This is why the NSAC is suspending Canelo.

All I'm saying is that in this specific case that unfair advantage Canelo had isn't enough to increase risk of death in the ring SIGNIFICANTLY.

This is why I posted the gif as a reaction to the "SOMEBODY COULDA DIED!" reactions I keep reading from casuals.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-i-always-clean-fighter-always--126838

https://www.boxingscene.com/golovkin-i-look-forward-headlining-on-cinco-de-mayo--126837


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Yeah... it definitely helped Vargas' case. If Canelo managed to fail his first tests administered in a couple of months (or even weeks), it just looks really bad.


yeah that'd be terrible and deserving of whatever punishment they give him.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

When do they even begin their testing?


----------



## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

This is huge. First time the biggest face of the sport has been called out as a PED cheat and had a huge fight cancelled.

I'm willing to bet he does testing over the summer and the rematch takes place in September. Kind of a compromise where his six month suspension begins the week of the failed tests, NSAC saves face but Vegas still eventually gets the fight.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Is it an unfair advantage? Sure, even if it is minuscule it is unfair, even if its unintentional its is unfair. This is why the NSAC is suspending Canelo.
> 
> All I'm saying is that in this specific case that unfair advantage Canelo had isn't enough to increase risk of death in the ring SIGNIFICANTLY.


In a sport where death/severe damage is _already_ a likely possibility, I would hope you'd recognise how using a banned substance increases that possibility. Not every PED doubles your size, turns you green and gives you Hulk fists. But I'm going to quote you again though because this highlights the issue I have with your point



Pedrin1787 said:


> All I'm saying is that in this specific case that unfair advantage Canelo had isn't enough to increase risk of death in the ring SIGNIFICANTLY


But the unfair advantage that increases the risk of death 'insignificantly' (i.e. not significantly) is acceptable. Is that what you're saying?


----------



## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> Anyone know of Saunders can be ready by then, cant remember if hes injured or not
> 
> https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-withdraws-from-golovkin-rematch-on-5--126834


BJS was reported to have suffered a hand injury.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

I don't get how anybody can support Canelo.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> BJS was reported to have suffered a hand injury.


After him and Warren saw it all kicking off with Canelo 's tests suddenly the hand injury Billy suffered during the Lemieux fight started playing up again. It's opportunism mate. There's no injury. Billy will be in there if the opportunity presents itself.


----------



## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> After him and Warren saw it all kicking off with Canelo 's tests suddenly the hand injury Billy suffered during the Lemieux fight started playing up again. It's opportunism mate. There's no injury. Billy will be in there is the opportunity presents itself.


As I said BJS was "reported" to have suffered a hand injury.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> As I said BJS was "reported" to have suffered a hand injury.


I get you ;-). I'm getting worked up in this thread a bit and missing some of the finer nuances. :lol:


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> In a sport where death/severe damage is _already_ a likely possibility, I would hope you'd recognise how using a banned substance increases that possibility. Not every PED doubles your size, turns you green and gives you Hulk fists. But I'm going to quote you again though because this highlights the issue I have with your point
> 
> But the unfair advantage that increases the risk of death 'insignificantly' (i.e. not significantly) is acceptable. Is that what you're saying?


Yes, if the rules were a bit different, considering GGG said they would not turn down the fight, and Canelo would move camp to the US, I would've been fine with the fight happening on May 5th.

Just like I was fine with Vargas Salido.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Yes, if the rules were a bit different, considering GGG said they would not turn down the fight, and Canelo would move camp to the US, I would've been fine with the fight happening on May 5th.
> 
> Just like I was fine with Vargas Salido.


So what's an acceptable, yet insignificant, increase of the risk of death for you?

0.002%? 0.1%? 1 whole percent!? More even?

If an opponent is still willing to fight shall we just freely allow fighters to take whatever PEDs they want provided the increase to the risk of death can be accurately measured and not exceeded?


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> So what's an acceptable, yet insignificant, increase of the risk of death for you?
> 
> 0.002%? 0.1%? 1 whole percent!? More even?
> 
> If an opponent is still willing to fight shall we just freely allow fighters to take whatever PEDs they want provided the increase to the risk of death can be accurately measured and not exceeded?


I gave you two examples I'm ok with already.

I'm betting the Valdes Quigg fight had a higher risk, yet it still happened because both camps agreed to it.


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Anyone else have the same suspicion that Canelo is relieved that the fight is off?


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Anyone else have the same suspicion that Canelo is relieved that the fight is off?


Relieved if he really is a doper, meaning that his body will need time to adjust. If he's telling the truth, he is rightfully frustrated and pissed off at himself.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I gave you two examples I'm ok with already.
> 
> I'm betting the Valdes Quigg fight had a higher risk, yet it still happened because both camps agreed to it.


Not even sure what your examples do for you at this point. Are you pro-ped? Anti-governing bodies? At least you seem to be recognising now that there's an increase in danger to the opponent's life when established rules are broken. You just now seem to take an ambivalent position if both sides agree to take the fight regardless of the increased risk.


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Relieved if he really is a doper, meaning that his body will need time to adjust. If he's telling the truth, he is rightfully frustrated and pissed off at himself.


He looked relieved at the end of rd 12 of their last fight. I dont think Canelo is on the same level and all the pressure is on him. Not as much on Golovkin


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> He looked relieved at the end of rd 12 of their last fight. I dont think Canelo is on the same level and all the pressure is on him. Not as much on Golovkin


He'd have faked an injury if he didn't want an immediate rematch and had his reputation unblemished.

... Playing along now...maybe he felt the "Mexican meat" would give him the extra edge he needed?


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Not even sure what your examples do for you at this point. Are you pro-ped? Anti-governing bodies? At least you seem to be recognising now that there's an increase in danger to the opponent's life when established rules are broken. You just now seem to take an ambivalent position if both sides agree to take the fight regardless of the increased risk.


Lol, this is getting ridiculous.

I think I made what my opinion is on this specific fight, with these specific circumstances, quite clear. I even gave you another example with very similar circumstances to drive my point home.

I'm not sure how your leaping to all these other conclusions about me being pro-ped and anti governing bodies.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Video Announcing Withdrawal:

https://www.boxingscene.com/video-canelo-announces-withdrawal-from-golovkin-rematch--126836

Canelo and Doc speak on Clen:

https://www.boxingscene.com/video-canelo-doctor-speak-media-about-clenbuterol--126839


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Anyone else have the same suspicion that Canelo is relieved that the fight is off?


Not at all. Ask any spanish speaker in here that has watched Canelo in interviews and stuff out of the ring.

The guy has a huge ego, and he's extremely confident. He almost comes off as cocky but not really because he's not a big talker.

I frankly find him annoying at times.

There is no doubt in my mind he's pissed off about this.


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

Ah ffs, gutted.

Hopefully he gets a reduced ban. Take the 6 months on the chin and come back for rematch in September.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> Relieved if he really is a doper, meaning that his body will need time to adjust. If he's telling the truth, he is rightfully frustrated and pissed off at himself.


If he had absolutely nothing to hide, he wouldn't have pulled out...


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Lol, this is getting ridiculous.
> 
> I think I made what my opinion is on this specific fight, with these specific circumstances, quite clear. I even gave you another example with very similar circumstances to drive my point home.
> 
> I'm not sure how your leaping to all these other conclusions about me being pro-ped and anti governing bodies.


You argued yourself into a corner is all. At first you said Canelo taking these peds posed no additional risk to Golovkin. I didn't think that held much weight under scrutiny. You haven't convinced me otherwise and have since changed your stance to adopt a more apathetic approach to the risks that you now recognise peds pose.


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> If he had absolutely nothing to hide, he wouldn't have pulled out...


His hand has been forced.



> "Additionally, given the current regulations in Nevada we have been advised, and it is unfortunate, that Canelo won't be cleared to fight in May."


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.es...ithdraws-5-bout-gennady-golovkin?platform=amp


----------



## Benny Blanco (Feb 18, 2017)

He lost the first fight (clearly) to me so I've never cared too much for the rematch, Can't stand corruption in Boxing and for me that's the only plausible explanation for 118-110.

The tainted meat excuse is obviously bollocks.

Canelo can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned, if his promoter isn't buying judges off he's doping up. He's a disgrace.

Feel sorry for GGG. Well and truly fucked over he's been.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Ivan Drago said:


> His hand has been forced.
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/23016758/canelo-alvarez-withdraws-5-bout-gennady-golovkin?platform=amp


Semantics...


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> Semantics...


Guilty or not, he's unable to fight in May so that doesn't really leave much of a choice and it doesn't speak to what his consience is like.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Daniel Jacobs, my homie Charlo. Even Saunders. Don't feel sorry for GGG he's got options. I hope he doesn't even look Canelo's way again...


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Ivan Drago said:


> Guilty or not, he's unable to fight in May so that doesn't really leave much of a choice and it doesn't speak to what his consience is like.


It's his fault...


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)




----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> You argued yourself into a corner is all. At first you said Canelo taking these peds posed no additional risk to Golovkin. I didn't think that held much weight under scrutiny. You haven't convinced me otherwise and have since changed your stance to adopt a more apathetic approach to the risks that you now recognise peds pose.


Mate you're talking nonsense.

My very first post poked fun at the "somebody could've died!" crowd in relation to the Canelo GGG fight, because I find that ridiculous when we're talking about traces of clenbuterol months away from the actual fight.

I've not once changed my stance on that. I, personally, would've been fine with the fight continuing had Canelo gone strict testing for the rest of his camp up until the day of the fight and tested clean.

That is all I meant to say with that post and that is all I was arguing.

If you want to discuss something different, we should probably open a new thread. That or you can PM me.

Cheers mate.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/981280429167620096


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> It's his fault...


Aye.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

I think Gilberto Ramirez make the most sense as a replacement, from a financial standpoint, since he's Mexican. And really he's the logical choice for other reasons as well.

I can see Golovkin possibly going for this, despite the size difference & the fact that Ramirez is a lefty. There's still a month to train, and Golovkin has deep experience. Plus, while Ramirez can punch, he's not a fearsome 1-punch monster. And 8 lbs doesn't really mean much.
Plus, Ramirez has nothing currently scheduled.

This would possibly be a bigger draw than Canelo, since even most Mexicans realize the orange one lost their first fight. If Golovkin is looking to finally makes some serious dollars...

Plus, if Golovkin were to lose, he'd have the size difference as a built-in excuse. It wouldn't really damage his cred much. Heck, they could even make it for a non-title catchweight. (I know, GGG said he'll be defending his titles on May 5th, but things change.)

BJS will never fight Golovkin, that's the safest bet in boxing.

Charlo? he'd want more time to prepare. (And so would we.)

Andrade? Same thing. Plus, he wouldn't draw flies.

I could see Derevchenko taking the fight, even though he really should wait, but he's more dangerous than Ramirez. Golovkin might as well milk that Mexican pride money.


----------



## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Cableaddict said:


> I think Gilberto Ramirez make the most sense as a replacement, from a financial standpoint, since he's Mexican.
> 
> I could see Golovkin possibly going for that, despite the size difference & the fact that Ramirez is a lefty. There's still a month to train, and Golovkin has deep experience. Plus, while Ramirez can punch, he's not a fearsome 1-punch monster. And 8 lbs doesn't really mean much.
> Plus, Ramirez has nothing currently scheduled.
> ...


No way one even knows who Ramirez is, I still havent seen one of his fights lol


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> No way one even knows who Ramirez is, I still havent seen one of his fights lol


He's nothing special.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> He's nothing special.


He's quite good, actually. Super high output, excellent accuracy. Balls of steel. 
He looked fantastic against Vlasov, won every round against Abraham, and handed Jesse Hart his only loss to date.

He's also currently WBO #2, WBA #2, WBC #3, IBF #3

And he's undefeated.

And he's really good looking. (Marketable.)

And he's Mexican. The Mexicans fans know EXACTLY who he is.

Exactly why he's the logical choice for Cinco De Mayo.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> No way one even knows who Ramirez is, I still havent seen one of his fights lol


And you call yourself a serious boxing fan?


----------



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> This was the most helpful response. Thank you.
> 
> From the little research I've done, they recommend from 20mcg to 140mcg. Canelo had .8mcg in his highest test.
> 
> I think GGG could have accepted extra money and still went along with the fight if the nsac allowed it.


And made it a non-title affair. Title vacant if Canelo wins.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> He's quite good, actually. Super high output, excellent accuracy. Balls of steel.
> 
> He's also currently WBO #2, WBA #2, WBC #3, IBF #3
> 
> ...


I wouldn't mind seeing him against GGG, but I've never thought much of him.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

I just found this:

https://www.boxingscene.com/gilberto-ramirez-prepared-step-were-ready-golovkin--126811

I'm telling you, this is going to happen.

The only question is, would there be a catchweight?
I can't see them asking Ramirez to fight at 160, especially with only a month to train, but it's much less exciting (of course) with no belts on the line.

SO WHAT'S THE RULE? 
If there's a catchweight of, say 165, could it then still be for the MW belts, if the belt holder agrees?


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Saunders is out. (No big surprise)

Frank Warren has officially chaine dup his yapping junkyard dog:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/bo...ennady-Golovkin-Canelo-Alvarez-pulls-out.html

Yeah, sure, Frank. Golovkin will cancel Cinco De Mayo in Vegas, so he can fight Billy Joe, in England, in June.

Right. You guys really, REALY want this fight.

OK then ..........................

==========================

Expect to see the same bullshit from all the other yappers, like Charlo. Oh, they really WANTED to fight Golovkin, but the money wasn't right .....

It's gonna' be Ramirez, I'm telling you. Probably at 168, for his WBO belt.

Well, unless they go with O'Sullivan.
Which would suck.


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

I wouldn't mind seeing Ramirez/Golovkin. That'd be a war.


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Get ready for cab driver which HBO loves to show golovkin destroy to build a superman aura...

Sullivan here we come, yay........


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> So Canelo had 600ng of this shit in his system and failed 2 tests while passing every other one.
> 
> I know 600 has been argued to death as being higher than previous fighters who ate contaminated meat. How much is the actual recommended amount to take and how much do you need to take to see any benefits. It seems to me that if Canelo got any benefit, it's very negligible.


:lol: You have such an agenda. I wish you were as enthusiastic when Povetkin had traces of meldonium in his system.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> I just found this:
> 
> https://www.boxingscene.com/gilberto-ramirez-prepared-step-were-ready-golovkin--126811
> 
> ...


A middleweight title bout cannot be contested beyond 160. It doesn't matter what the beltholder agrees to.


----------



## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Cableaddict said:


> And you call yourself a serious boxing fan?


Lol dont even think hes been on tv in UK, everyone got excited when he beat Abraham when EVERYONE has beaten Abraham lol


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> This is huge. First time the biggest face of the sport has been called out as a PED cheat and had a huge fight cancelled.
> 
> I'm willing to bet he does testing over the summer and the rematch takes place in September. Kind of a compromise where his six month suspension begins the week of the failed tests, NSAC saves face but Vegas still eventually gets the fight.


Jon Jones has been fucking up forever so it's almost par for the course these days. Can't believe another big fight is off. Fuck Canelo and his team.


----------



## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> @Drunkenboat
> I see you already changed your avy back ****.
> 
> I'll give you a new one to rock come September.


Bets off bitch hahahahaha


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> :lol: You have such an agenda. I wish you were as enthusiastic when Povetkin had traces of meldonium in his system.


I said the nsac handled this right, but that I doubt Canelo got much benefit. You outright excuse Povetkin even after he failed for a second time.


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I said the nsac handled this right, but that I doubt Canelo got much benefit. You outright excuse Povetkin even after he failed for a second time.


So, why didn't you defend Povetkin like you're doing with Canelo, talking the same shit. Meldonium isn't even well established as a performance enhancer yet you're already ready to jump on Canelo's dick. As I said, your agenda is well documented.

Also, I didn't outright excuse Povetkin after the second failed test. I didn't even outright excuse him of the first failed test until all the evidence was given and showed he was innocent.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> A middleweight title bout cannot be contested beyond 160. It doesn't matter what the beltholder agrees to.


Thanks. I wasn't sure.

Well then, I can see Gennady not wanting this after all, since he's publicly announced that he'll still be defending his belts.

That sucks. Ramirez and Charlo are the only 2 opponents with which we'd not already know the winner ahead of time. (Well, and Sergiy, but that won't likely happen.)

Spike it is, I guess.

A fun fight, but meaningless .............


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> Lol dont even think hes been on tv in UK, everyone got excited when he beat Abraham when EVERYONE has beaten Abraham lol


I get your point, but this is CINCO DE FUCKING MAYO!

Mexicans love that mayo. They put it on EVERYTHING! Even their tainted beef!


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Doc said:


> Get ready for cab driver which HBO loves to show golovkin destroy to build a superman aura...
> 
> Sullivan here we come, yay........


Canelo fucked up here, you can't deny that or even try and downplay Golo's actions.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> So, why didn't you defend Povetkin like you're doing with Canelo, talking the same shit. Meldonium isn't even well established as a performance enhancer yet you're already ready to jump on Canelo's dick. As I said, your agenda is well documented.
> 
> Also, I didn't outright excuse Povetkin after the second failed test. I didn't even outright excuse him of the first failed test until all the evidence was given and showed he was innocent.


because the situations are completely different. Povetkin tested negative the whole time, had a positive test, then a negative and another positive, The evidence doesn't suit his excuse that he took the drug before it was deemed illegal.

I need to see Canelo's tests before the 17th of February. I don't know if he cheated and neither do any of the people in this thread. The evidence we have so far supports both arguments. My argument was that the NSAC shouldn't just take his word for it, but the amount that Canelo had in his system was extremely small. Especially for what's deemed as a weight loss drug.

edit: Also if it is proven that Canelo did test positive due to tainted meat, he should still face penalty as he was warned beforehand.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Thanks.
> I wasn't sure.
> 
> Well then, I can see Gennady not wanting this after all, since he's publicly announced that he'll still be defending his belts.
> ...


I'm still thinking it might be a zombified JCC Jr. It's still a PPV date, isn't it?


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> I'm still thinking it might be a zombified JCC Jr. It's still a PPV date, isn't it?


God help us all.

Do Mexican fans still give a fuck about Jr? Somehow, I doubt it.

Also, Jr could never make 160 without serious drugs & surgery to remove half of his intestines, so he presents the same problem as Ramirez, but without any upsides at all. At least with Ramirez, it would still be a title fight, just not Gennady's titles.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> God help us all.
> 
> Do Mexican fans still give a fuck about Jr? Somehow, I doubt it.
> 
> Also, Jr could never make 160 without serious drugs, so he presents the same problem as Ramirez, but without any upsides at all.


You're right, anyway; they're already saying it's Spike. May as well just put it on regular HBO at this point.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Imagine how Antoine Douglas feels right now!


----------



## Nigelbro (May 22, 2013)

@ant-man You need to keep a stern watch on these drug cheats because half of them are dealers. 
Turns out Lance Armstrong was a peddler too.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

To me, it's hilarious the fight is off :lol:

Mission accomplished


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Drunkenboat said:


> Bets off bitch hahahahaha


What are you talking about?



Drunkenboat said:


> At least in 2 years





Pedrin1787 said:


> 1 year avy bet that we get the rematch in 2018.





Drunkenboat said:


> Ok, but you will have to keep track of it as my professional life keeps me quite busy.


2018 is far from over.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

“To be honest, what Golovkin or his team say doesn’t bother me at all,” Alvarez said through a translator during a press conference in Los Angeles. “Because No. 1, they’re not doctors, they’re not the experts. I don’t pay attention to them. It sounds more to me like an excuse of not wanting to fight me, like he’s scared, to be honest.”

Stfu


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Alvaroids and his team will keep spinning this and make it seem like GGG was avoiding them.

Canelo could've requested plaster of Paris as handwraps and they'll insist GGG is a coward for not wanting the fight. :bart


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> "To be honest, what Golovkin or his team say doesn't bother me at all," Alvarez said through a translator during a press conference in Los Angeles. "Because No. 1, they're not doctors, they're not the experts. I don't pay attention to them. It sounds more to me like an excuse of not wanting to fight me, like he's scared, to be honest."
> 
> Stfu


:rofl Unreal


----------



## Casual Benson's Unknown (Jun 5, 2012)

Oscar said very similar too

Bunch of scumbags


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> "To be honest, what Golovkin or his team say doesn't bother me at all," Alvarez said through a translator during a press conference in Los Angeles. "Because No. 1, they're not doctors, they're not the experts. I don't pay attention to them. It sounds more to me like an excuse of not wanting to fight me, like he's scared, to be honest."
> 
> Stfu


Sounds like the Canelo I know.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> Thanks. I wasn't sure.
> 
> Well then, I can see Gennady not wanting this after all, since he's publicly announced that he'll still be defending his belts.
> 
> ...


This what happens when someone cheats...


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> "To be honest, what Golovkin or his team say doesn't bother me at all," Alvarez said through a translator during a press conference in Los Angeles. "Because No. 1, they're not doctors, they're not the experts. I don't pay attention to them. It sounds more to me like an excuse of not wanting to fight me, like he's scared, to be honest."
> 
> Stfu


What?


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

So...is Canelo officially now the most hated figure in the sport since Antonio Margarito?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> So...is Canelo officially now the most hated figure in the sport since Antonio Margarito?


Canelo with the heel turn.

I like it.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Canelo's lost his mind. He swapped the meat with Clenbuterol in it for meat with mad cow's disease in it. Kid can't catch a break.


----------



## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

Gone off the deep end.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> "To be honest, what Golovkin or his team say doesn't bother me at all," Alvarez said through a translator during a press conference in Los Angeles. "Because No. 1, they're not doctors, they're not the experts. I don't pay attention to them. It sounds more to me like an excuse of not wanting to fight me, like he's scared, to be honest."
> 
> Stfu


:lol:

He's moving up to G territory.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Canelo with the heel turn.
> 
> I like it.


I saw it coming. He might as well embrace it.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Canelo does have some of that Billy Russo going on from the Punisher


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

allenko1 said:


>


Canelo:

"I wass BORN ped-y !"


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I saw it coming. He might as well embrace it.


Trinidad and Vargas were kind of pricks and it worked.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Not a good look imo. It's my understanding he was certain the fight wasn't happening in May so he used the opportunity to trash GGG. Should have just stepped down and stfu now he's gotta soon this in GGG somehow.


----------



## Boogle McDougal (Jun 8, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> "To be honest, what Golovkin or his team say doesn't bother me at all," Alvarez said through a translator during a press conference in Los Angeles. "Because No. 1, they're not doctors, they're not the experts. I don't pay attention to them. It sounds more to me like an excuse of not wanting to fight me, like he's scared, to be honest."
> 
> Stfu


Ouch! A pathetic attempt at deflection. Shameful, really.


----------



## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

Body language.


----------



## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

I almost forgot that this cancellation saved a potential overlap with the NHL's Vegas Golden Knights (yes, Vegas has a professional hockey team, which happens to be the best expansion team of all-time in any of the big 4 sports) having a playoff game on Cinco de Mayo Weekend at T-Mobile Arena


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

KOTF said:


> I almost forgot that this cancellation saved a potential overlap with the NHL's Vegas Golden Knights (yes, Vegas has a professional hockey team, which happens to be the best expansion team of all-time in any of the big 4 sports) having a playoff game on Cinco de Mayo Weekend at T-Mobile Arena


Golden Knights!


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

Zopilote said:


> So...is Canelo officially now the most hated figure in the sport since Antonio Margarito?


Seems like it.

The amount of people willing to see Canelo get his ass kicked has increased exponentially and will only mean huge box office results, ala Mayweather, in his comeback.

Canelo's money-men are probably popping the champagne bottles.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

ElKiller said:


> Seems like it.
> 
> The amount of people willing to see Canelo get his ass kicked has increased exponentially and will only mean huge box office results, ala Mayweather, in his comeback.
> 
> Canelo's money-men are probably popping the champagne bottles.


A real G move would be to work with someone like Heredia for his next camp, come back and test completely clean with even better stamina.


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

Pedrin1787 said:


> A real G move would be to work with someone like Heredia for his next camp, come back and test completely clean with even better stamina.


Sure, why not. The damage is done however, and from now on it doesn't matter who he works with or how many times he tests clean, his haters will always see him as a cheat.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

It's weak for Clenelo to try and spin it on GGG. This man tested positive wtf it's all on him.


----------



## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

ElKiller said:


> Sure, why not. The damage is done however, and from now on it doesn't matter who he works with or how many times he tests clean, rational boxing fans will always see him as a cheat.


fixed


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

DynamicMoves said:


> fixed


FAIL!

A "rational fan" will not readily jump to conclusions without knowing all the facts.

Try again.


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

BobDigi5060 said:


> It's weak for Clenelo to try and spin it on GGG. This man tested positive wtf it's all on him.


It's obvious Canelo is still salty about GGG's meltdown.


----------



## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

ElKiller said:


> Sure, why not. The damage is done however, and from now on it doesn't matter who he works with or how many times he tests clean, anybody who isn't on Canelo's nuts will always see him as a cheat.


This work better for you?


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

DynamicMoves said:


> This work better for you?


Nice try again, but same bullshit. lol

You're merely trying to convince yourself that you don't have an agenda.

But if that works for YOU, then by all means.


----------



## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

Canelo failed two drug tests, the fight is off, and yet still somehow he is clean?


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

DynamicMoves said:


> Canelo failed two drug tests, the fight is off, and yet still somehow he is clean?


Just admit that reading comprehension is not your strong suit and I'll gladly move on.


----------



## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

ElKiller said:


> Just admit that reading comprehension is not your strong suit and I'll gladly move on.


So you think he is a clean fighter?


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

DynamicMoves said:


> So you think he is a clean fighter?


That depends on what your definition of "clean" is.

He's probably clean now and by all accounts was clean before those two failed tests(90+ tests and all but 2 clean as a whistle).

My take is simply this, there's a chance he's guilty as sin of flagrantly cheating but there's also a chance
the "tainted meat" excuse is a legit reason why he failed those tests. None of us know for sure.


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

ElKiller said:


> It's obvious Canelo is still salty about GGG's meltdown.


I wouldn't call that a meltdown.


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Fuck's sake man. This guy got given a draw against your favourite fighter when he was absolutely schooled by him. He got given a gift when he lost a close fight against your second favourite fighter. He's now failed a drugs test and you're _still_ making excuses for him?
> 
> One day I hope to love someone as much as you hate Golovkin. Put aside the tribal partisanship. Don't you have _any_ respect for sportsmanship and fairness at all? Even just a little bit? You're backing the most corrupt player in the game.
> 
> This guy _drew_ with Mayweather on one of the judge's cards ffs. Remember that. What does Floyd think of that?


You realize who you're quoting right? Dude thinks with his Vagina when it comes to his favorite/most hated fighters. Stop asking or expecting him to be neutral.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bjj_Boxer said:


> You realize who you're quoting right? Dude thinks with his Vagina when it comes to his favorite/most hated fighters. Stop asking or expecting him to be neutral.


I am being neutral. I am not saying Canelo whether Canelo's excuse is real or not. Even if it's really tainted meat, he deserves some penalty.

But most of the people on this site has GGG's dick so far down their throats, they can't think straight. Yall are the same people who shitted on Canelo vs Khan but loved GGG vs Brook. I was a neutral party who shitted on both fights equally. I was probably the most vocal critic of Canelo vs Khan.


----------



## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

WHy is the WBC president going out of his way to defend Canelo so much? Every day I see a story from him sayin Canelo is innocent, Canelo just ate meat. Why is he so involved? What is the WBC's stake in Canelo?


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> I wouldn't call that a meltdown.


it actually seems fitting:

"an outburst of severe emotional distress"; a nervous breakdown

I've never seen GGG act that way and maybe he was missquoted but it seems like this got under his skin and will likely be having nightmares about it until the rematch...


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

ElKiller said:


> That depends on what your definition of "clean" is.
> 
> He's probably clean now and by all accounts was clean before those two failed tests(90+ tests and all but 2 clean as a whistle).
> 
> ...


:rofl holy fucking shit


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

Drunkenboat said:


> WHy is the WBC president going out of his way to defend Canelo so much? Every day I see a story from him sayin Canelo is innocent, Canelo just ate meat. Why is he so involved? What is the WBC's stake in Canelo?


Mexican-Mexican love in?


----------



## Drunkenboat (Jul 29, 2012)

Crean said:


> :rofl holy fucking shit


He was only dirty at the time he got caught :lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

DynamicMoves said:


> So you think he is a clean fighter?


He was trying to say "clen", just a misunderstanding.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Drunkenboat said:


> WHy is the WBC president going out of his way to defend Canelo so much? Every day I see a story from him sayin Canelo is innocent, Canelo just ate meat. Why is he so involved? What is the WBC's stake in Canelo?


WBC wants Mexican champs.
Same reason Arreola got two hundred chances.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Canelo-Khan was less of a missmatch than Golovkin-Brook.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/981868735467110402
Jaime Munguia is an up and coming 154 lber.

His management don't like him.


----------



## Bjj_Boxer (Jun 17, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/981868735467110402
> Jaime Munguia is an up and coming 154 lber.
> 
> His management don't like him.


Don't really know the guy, but why would anyone ruin a young career like that?


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Doc said:


> it actually seems fitting:
> 
> "an outburst of severe emotional distress"; a nervous breakdown
> 
> I've never seen GGG act that way and maybe he was missquoted but it seems like this got under his skin and will likely be having nightmares about it until the rematch...


Imo Canelo is the only one who looks bad here.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Bjj_Boxer said:


> Don't really know the guy, but why would anyone ruin a young career like that?


Mo' money, mo' money, mo' money, mo' money......


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

Crean said:


> :rofl holy fucking shit


 Go ahead spit it out.


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

ElKiller said:


> Go ahead spit it out.


Spit what out?

I think its pretty fucking obvious whats so funny.


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

Crean said:


> Spit what out?
> 
> I think its pretty fucking obvious whats so funny.


Your rationalization skills?


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

WHO?


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/982024587989921792


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> WHO?


Mike jones


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Evidently, NSAC won't approve this contender for this fight...


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Mike jones


WHO?


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> Evidently, NSAC won't approve this contender for this fight...


Holy shit NSAC, first Canelo can't fight after a failed test now you don't want to approve this LMW fighter on short notice to get his head beat in by GGG.. It's like you actually care..


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Holy shit NSAC, first Canelo can't fight after a failed test now you don't want to approve this LMW fighter on short notice to get his head beat in by GGG.. It's like you actually care..


I think they're just fucking with Golovkin. 

Sad state of boxing, when we're relieved to see Spike O'Sullivan fight for a belt.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> I think they're just fucking with Golovkin.
> 
> Sad state of boxing, when we're relieved to see Spike O'Sullivan fight for a belt.


:lol:

They honestly should just push the damn date back and get him someone decent... But I get it, they want to cash in on a Cinco de Mayo fight..


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Please God, let it be Ramirez......

Please God, let it be Ramirez......

Please God, let it be Ramirez......


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

-----------


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Divi253 said:


> :lol:
> 
> They honestly should just push the damn date back and get him someone decent... But I get it, they want to cash in on a Cinco de Mayo fight..


cash in against who though? if they just have to make the date, its a mad scramble...


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> Please God, let it be Ramirez......
> 
> Please God, let it be Ramirez......
> 
> Please God, let it be Ramirez......


Spike O'Sullivan...


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> cash in against who though? if they just have to make the date, its a mad scramble...


There's nobody willing to step in this late good enough for me to buy a PPV or wanna go to the fight. But I'm sure there's people who will just bcuz it's Cinco de Mayo and they always watch boxing that day...


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Divi253 said:


> There's nobody willing to step in this late good enough for me to buy a PPV or wanna go to the fight. But I'm sure there's people who will just bcuz it's Cinco de Mayo and they always watch boxing that day...


It's not Gs fault, but they still want to play this off as a PPV. They are begging for failure...


----------



## JDK (Jun 3, 2013)

Bjj_Boxer said:


> Don't really know the guy, but why would anyone ruin a young career like that?





Pedrin1787 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/981868735467110402
> Jaime Munguia is an up and coming 154 lber.
> 
> His management don't like him.


He's been creating some buzz here in SoCal. Fights from TJ Mexico. He's a big 154lb fighter who reminds me a lot of Fernando Vargas.
Has good potential, but definitely too soon to face GGG.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

JDK said:


> He's been creating some buzz here in SoCal. Fights from TJ Mexico. *He's a big 154lb fighter *who reminds me a lot of Fernando Vargas.
> Has good potential, but definitely too soon to face GGG.


He's not a big SWW at all. In fact, he's small.

He fought three times at WW in 2017.

And he has absolutely ZERO defense. Golovkin would destroy him for life. Golovkin would cripple his grandchildren.


----------



## JDK (Jun 3, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> He's not a big SWW at all. In fact, he's small.
> 
> He fought three times at WW in 2017


At 21yo he couldn't make the 147 limit. He's just only starting out his career in the big stage and jumping up to 154.
Walks around heavy for his weight class.
He probably does look bigger in comparison to all the Mexican cab drivers he's been fighting, but still he's someone I consider big


----------



## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

I came back here just to laugh at Canelo...Lolllllllllllllllllllll sucked in fan boys, your roided up, ginger boy still can't beat GGG.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




----------



## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

With Golovkin's May 5th fight being moved to the StubHub Center.

21-year-old Jaime Munguia (28-0, 24 KOs) could be back in the picture as his opponent too.

Munguia was apparently offered $750,000 to fight Golovkin on Cinco de Mayo on HBO PPV. But the Nevada State Athletic Commission turned down Munguia as GGG's opponent.

Now that GGG's fight is being moved to Carson, it's possible Golovkin's promoter Tom Loeffler will try and get the California State Athletic Commission to approve Munguia as his opponent. The reason why Munguia is the ideal opponent for Golovkin is because he's fighting on the Mexican holiday Cinco de Mayo, and a lot of Mexican boxing fans will purchase the fight if GGG is fighting someone from Mexico.

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2018/04/golovkins-may-5th-fight-being-moved-to-stubhub-center-in-la/


----------



## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

According to WBO Pres Mauricio Sulaiman, there is a conference call scheduled for Tuesday with the IBF and WBA to discuss Golovkin's mandatory obligations.


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Twitter is saying it's Spike O'Sullivan.


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> According to WBO Pres Mauricio Sulaiman, there is a conference call scheduled for Tuesday with the IBF and WBA to discuss Golovkin's mandatory obligations.


I'd rather see Derevyanchenko. Golovkin should forgo Cinco de Mayo and get that mandatory out of the way. Only issue is that he could lose and blow a Canelo rematch.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> I'd rather see Derevyanchenko. Golovkin should forgo Cinco de Mayo and get that mandatory out of the way.* Only issue is that he could lose and blow a Canelo rematch*.


One helluv'an issue.

That's why I keep saying it should be Ramirez, at 168, for the WBO belt.
Great fight, huge appeal to the Mexicans, and even if Golovkin loses he can still fight Canelo II for his MW belts. Plus, Golovkin gets to give us "big drama show," and prove he isn't a cherry picking pussy.

There's almost no downside.


----------



## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> I'd rather see Derevyanchenko. Golovkin should forgo Cinco de Mayo and get that mandatory out of the way. Only issue is that he could lose and blow a Canelo rematch.


It can certainly be argued that a mandatory on such short notice is a tall order.

Provided Canelo doesn't get a lengthy suspension - and I think we can just about bet our lives on that - it is important to preserve the rematch.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> With Golovkin's May 5th fight being moved to the StubHub Center.
> 
> 21-year-old Jaime Munguia (28-0, 24 KOs) could be back in the picture as his opponent too.
> 
> ...


For $750,000, they can get Andrade


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

They _still_ haven't announced a replacement?


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> They _still_ haven't announced a replacement?


They have an awful lot of cab drivers to interview ......


----------



## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> They _still_ haven't announced a replacement?


Hopefully it means a delay so that Golovkin gets a better opponent... I wish


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

DOM5153 said:


> Hopefully it means a delay so that Golovkin gets a better opponent... I wish


Surely it means the date is lost, right? No one worth anything at all will take the fight on three weeks notice. Should have just let JCC Jr. drug himself down and been done with it. Too late now...


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

It now seems that Canelo waited just enough to ensure that GGG would also be screwed...


----------



## LiL Boosie (Feb 9, 2014)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/983636432794390528
Now targetting Vanes

Yikes


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

What an omnishambles.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Vanes aint a bad opponent on three weeks notice tbf


----------



## Muffy (Jul 8, 2016)

Seriously, fuck the Cinco De Mayo date, this is getting embarrassing


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Vanes would be a shitty choice, but whatever I get it. I won't criticize a late replacement like that unlike Wilder haters who criticized him fighting his mandatory on 1 day's notice.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Vanes would be a shitty choice, but whatever I get it. I won't criticize a late replacement like that unlike Wilder haters who criticized him fighting his mandatory on 1 day's notice.


Better than that other fighter they were trying to get just because it's Cinco de Mayo. :lol:


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Better than that other fighter they were trying to get just because it's Cinco de Mayo. :lol:


:lol: It's Cinco De Mayo, so we have to get Munguia.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> :lol: It's Cinco De Mayo, so we have to get Munguia.


Crazy shit is instead of everyone saying it's a shit fight, I swear I saw some saying it was a good fight... Not acceptable, not decent last minute replacement. But a good fight. :lol:


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Crazy shit is instead of everyone saying it's a shit fight, I swear I saw some saying it was a good fight... Not acceptable, not decent last minute replacement. But a good fight. :lol:


:lol: shameful shit. Just say it's a shitty fight, but due to the circumstances, it's acceptable and move on. No need to lie to everybody.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Muffy said:


> Seriously, fuck the Cinco De Mayo date, this is getting embarrassing


Someone should tell GGG that he isn't really Mexican...


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Someone should tell GGG that he isn't really Mexican...


Better yet, someone needs to tell everyone that it doesn't matter what date a good boxing fight takes place, Mexican Boxing fans will watch, regardless of the date.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)




----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> Better yet, someone needs to tell everyone that it doesn't matter what date a good boxing fight takes place, Mexican Boxing fans will watch, regardless of the date.


No mexicans I know give a fuck about the "Cinco de Mayo" date.

They see some ads for a fight on sports tv or hear them on the radio and its on their radar.

Thats pretty much it.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> No mexicans I know give a fuck about the "Cinco de Mayo" date.
> 
> They see some ads for a fight on sports tv or hear them on the radio and its on their radar.
> 
> Thats pretty much it.


Pretty much this.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> No mexicans I know give a fuck about the "Cinco de Mayo" date.
> 
> They see some ads for a fight on sports tv or hear them on the radio and its on their radar.
> 
> Thats pretty much it.


I never really thought about it before, but you're probably right!

- but I still wanna' see Golovkin fight Ramirez.
-----------

Besides, on Cinco De mayo, aren't all those crazed Mexican fans off work, drunk on tequila, and running around town firing their guns into the air? Seems like a good time to sell them something!


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

No opponent, now not on PPV, venue change. They need to just cancel this altogether and sue Canelo for loss of earnings like Wilder did successfully against Povetkin.

Call Saunders' bluff and fight him in the UK in June.


----------



## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

Well it's looking like fighting on the 5th is in jeopardy. Here's Golovkin's chance to finally unify.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

https://www.boxingscene.com/golovkin-5-fight-jeopardy-being-canceled-altogether--127066


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

This is not GGG's fault. They are really trying to make this hard for him. Is it too much to move the day back to June, July? GGG might not want to do that. They scrambling to make a fight against anybody. Vanes has been inactive and is a 154lber. HBO turned down Andrade, I don't know if they want Derevyanchenko (damn, thats a name) so if he must fight on the 5th, then Spike O'Sullivan it is...


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> *This is not GGG's fault*. They are really trying to make this hard for him. Is it too much to move the day back to June, July? GGG might not want to do that. They scrambling to make a fight against anybody. Vanes has been inactive and is a 154lber. HBO turned down Andrade, I don't know if they want Derevyanchenko (damn, thats a name) so if he must fight on the 5th, then Spike O'Sullivan it is...


How is it not his fault? He's in primo condition & ready to go. He's said many times over the years he wants to fight the best, and would fight anyone up to 168 lbs.

All he has to do is say "yes" to either Ramirez, or Derevychenko, and the world gets big drama show.

But evidently, the great Golovkin is more of a little biatch than we thought. He only wants to fight blown up welters, or aging, basic tough guys.

Very sad.


----------



## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

O'Sullivan is out. GBP really don't want Golovkin to fight until the Canelo rematch.

Edit: Falcao is being offered by GB. Fuck GBP.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Muff said:


> O'Sullivan is out. GBP really don't want Golovkin to fight until the Canelo rematch.
> 
> Edit: Falcao is being offered by GB. Fuck GBP.


I dont think Canelo gets a rematch now, Saunders next and then if he wins I think he'll just go to 168 cause 160 will be cleaned out (in terms of belts anyway).

Even if he stays at 160 Canelo has nothing to offer so unless he gets in line he'll have to wait behind Murata, Derevyanchenko and Charlo who are mandatories.

Then again, it wouldnt surprise me if the WBC stripped GGG and made Charlo v Canelo for the vacant belt.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> How is it not his fault? He's in primo condition & ready to go. He's said many times over the years he wants to fight the best, and would fight anyone up to 168 lbs.
> 
> All he has to do is say "yes" to either Ramirez, or Derevychenko, and the world gets big drama show.
> 
> ...


Yeah. Him and his people have said that. It is short notice and HBO and evidently the belt people have to approve the opponent. That there aren't opponents that ready for a May 5th shot that they have to ok is not his fault. Canelo's testing positive is not his fault. They might do better not having a fight...


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Chatty said:


> I dont think Canelo gets a rematch now, Saunders next and then if he wins I think he'll just go to 168 cause 160 will be cleaned out (in terms of belts anyway).
> 
> Even if he stays at 160 *Canelo has nothing to offer* so unless he gets in line he'll have to wait behind Murata, Derevyanchenko and Charlo who are mandatories.
> 
> Then again, it wouldnt surprise me if the WBC stripped GGG and made Charlo v Canelo for the vacant belt.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


>


He has no belts so he cant jump in line for a unification, hes gonna have to wait till all the mandatories are out of the way, take someones mandatory, hope GGG drops the belts or pay the sabctioning bodies off to get a fight. His window has closed for the time being, more so if they get a reprieve for a Saunders full unification.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Chatty said:


> He has no belts so he cant jump in line for a unification, hes gonna have to wait till all the mandatories are out of the way, take someones mandatory, hope GGG drops the belts or pay the sabctioning bodies off to get a fight. His window has closed for the time being, more so if they get a reprieve for a Saunders full unification.


Canelo offers Golovkin more money than pretty much any other fight out there. He'd have to be crazy to let the rematch go at this point in his career.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Canelo offers Golovkin more money than pretty much any other fight out there. He'd have to be crazy to let the rematch go at this point in his career.


Depends really, how much does GGG have in the bank, 20+ million. Hes already set for life, maybes he wont care so much and look to secure his legacy. Some fighters do.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Depends really, how much does GGG have in the bank, 20+ million. Hes already set for life, maybes he wont care so much and look to secure his legacy. Some fighters do.


I just can't see him letting that money go to try his luck at 168 at 36 years old, it makes 0 sense.

I've seen stranger things, but it doesn't seem likely to me.

Edit: To add to this, getting a clear win and an official W on his record over Canelo would do more for him legacy wise than taking care of any of his mandatories.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Pedrin1787 said:


> I just can't see him letting that money go to try his luck at 168 at 36 years old, it makes 0 sense.
> 
> I've seen stranger things, but it doesn't seem likely to me.
> 
> Edit: To add to this, getting a clear win and an official W on his record over Canelo would do more for him legacy wise than taking care of any of his mandatories.


I dont think the official win matters. Its viewed like Pernell v Chavez in that most people class it as a win regardless of the official result already.

All comes down to money but Canelo is gonna have to wait till next May at the least as Saunders is next, no doubt.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

An official victory does not matter. right...


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Spike is out of the running officially as well.. Just fucking move the date man, it'll be better for everyone.. Unless he thinks he'll be overtrained...

https://www.boxingscene.com/spike-osullivan-rejects-golovkin-offer-out-running--127084


----------



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Alright I'll fight GGG. Send me the contract and the money. Have the ambulance ready ringside with a ring card girl inside.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

rjjfan said:


> Alright I'll fight GGG. Send me the contract and the money. Have the ambulance ready ringside with a ring card girl inside.


I like the way you think !


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

They should stop being pussies and fight Andrade at this point or take care of that mandatory


----------



## Gully Foyle (May 7, 2016)

bballchump11 said:


> They should stop being pussies and fight Andrade at this point or take care of that mandatory


You know Its all about money, why would they take that mandatory...doesn't make any sense. They'll either take an easy fight or just wait til September for Canelo and make more money. No reason to risk a huge payday.

The promotion now going to be even bigger. Real bad blood, etc...


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/984262650950385665
Haven't read anything saying its official but these guys are trying to say it is.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Gully Foyle said:


> You know Its all about money, why would they take that mandatory...doesn't make any sense. They'll either take an easy fight or just wait til September for Canelo and make more money. No reason to risk a huge payday.
> 
> The promotion now going to be even bigger. Real bad blood, etc...


Yeah true but I think he'll win both fights. Andrade stylistically is tougher, but he'll most likely stop him.

It sucks that GGG has to halt his career like this. I'm sure he'd love you fight 4 times this year


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Falcao? O'Sullivan would be a better fight.

Fucking christonastick .........


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

:sad5


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> :sad5


Maybe Golovkin could fight BOTH Falcao's at the same time.

They still wouldn't win, but at least the fight might then be mildly competitive.


----------



## Gully Foyle (May 7, 2016)

bballchump11 said:


> Yeah true but I think he'll win both fights. Andrade stylistically is tougher, but he'll most likely stop him.
> 
> It sucks that GGG has to halt his career like this. I'm sure he'd love you fight 4 times this year


It feels like GGG knows that he is declining, especially after that Jacobs fight and might just want to cash out...


----------



## Tuff Gong (May 22, 2013)

What a bitchmade clown act shit shower of cunts Canelo & GBP are.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> They should stop being pussies and fight Andrade at this point or take care of that mandatory


Network turned it down apparently.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

So Spike has been 'poached' by Oscar and put on the 4th May card which will also feature Ryan Garcia. Oscar trying to sabotage Golovkin.


----------



## Tuff Gong (May 22, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> So Spike has been 'poached' by Oscar and put on the 4th May card which will also feature Ryan Garcia. Oscar trying to sabotage Golovkin.





Tuff Gong said:


> What a bitchmade clown act shit shower of cunts Canelo & GBP are.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> So Spike has been 'poached' by Oscar and put on the 4th May card which will also feature Ryan Garcia. Oscar trying to sabotage Golovkin.


I called that a week ago when I realized that GGG was in danger of losing the date. Canelo knew right away that he was going to have to withdraw from the fight, yet waited until just long enough to ensure that GGG wouldn't be able to find a quality replacement.


----------



## Tuff Gong (May 22, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> I called that a week ago when I realized that GGG was in danger of losing the date. Canelo knew right away that he was going to have to withdraw from the fight, yet waited until just long enough to ensure that GGG wouldn't be able to find a quality replacement.





Tuff Gong said:


> What a bitchmade clown act shit shower of cunts Canelo & GBP are.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Pretty much.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> So Spike has been 'poached' by Oscar and put on the 4th May card which will also feature Ryan Garcia. Oscar trying to sabotage Golovkin.


Isn't Spike a GB fighter? If I remember correctly he was on the Lemieux undercard last.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Network turned it down apparently.


Gotta love HBO



Gully Foyle said:


> It feels like GGG knows that he is declining, especially after that Jacobs fight and might just want to cash out...


That's possible. I think it's more due to the level of opposition, but I can't argue with that fact if GGG's team are feeling another way.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> So Spike has been 'poached' by Oscar and put on the 4th May card which will also feature Ryan Garcia. Oscar trying to sabotage Golovkin.


More like Oscar is saving Spike for Canelo. Only so many "easy to beat, but makes the fight look good" opponents out there.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=916378595201919


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/984507227108065280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/984537341489328128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/984538769494704128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/984545749223354368


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Should have fought his IBF mandatory if he's so concerned with losing the belt. Canelo pulled out 10 days ago. That's enough time to fight Derevyanchenko. GGG will be the one to be at an advantage at this short notice.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Seriously, are they playing a joke on themselves with this?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Rumors were that Canelo was undergoing arthroscopic knee surgery in Guadalajara, but Golden Boy has said that it's purely "cosmetic". Weird.

https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-alavrez-surgery-cosmetic-says-golden-boy--127145


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

Canelo needs to fix them pointy knees.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Rumors were that Canelo was undergoing arthroscopic knee surgery in Guadalajara, but Golden Boy has said that it's purely "cosmetic". Weird.
> 
> https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-alavrez-surgery-cosmetic-says-golden-boy--127145


So they fit better in Oscar's deviant butthole.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Well as long as I'm getting ready to be suspended, might as well get my knee scoped...


----------



## scorpion (Jun 24, 2013)

Shit I just realized if GGG wins this fight it will give him 20 title defenses, equal to Hopkins. Kind of a shame it won't be Canelo, it would have made the event even bigger in my eyes.


----------



## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

scorpion said:


> Shit I just realized if GGG wins this fight it will give him 20 title defenses, equal to Hopkins. Kind of a shame it won't be Canelo, it would have made the event even bigger in my eyes.


Would've been if GGG didn't get robbed.


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2109879455817639


----------



## scorpion (Jun 24, 2013)

DynamicMoves said:


> Would've been if GGG didn't get robbed.


A draw technically still counts as a defense no?


----------



## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

scorpion said:


> A draw technically still counts as a defense no?


Guess so. Some reason I thought before the first Canelo fight he was about to tie that record.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Ingredients of success


----------



## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Official

https://www.boxingscene.com/golovkin-vs-martirosyan-finalized-5-on-hbo-stubhub--127284


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Fight official. HBO, Tom Loeffler, Able Sanchez, GGG. You know what you are:


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

scorpion said:


> A draw technically still counts as a defense no?


I understand what you mean, but since he didn't win, he technically didn't defend his title. You could look at it either way...


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> I understand what you mean, but since he didn't win, he technically didn't defend his title. You could look at it either way...


A draw is a defense tho isn't it


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Canelo 6 month ban is official.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-40019597-4

From Fat Dan,

"That was a quick hearing. The commission and Canelo's team reached an adjudication agreement before the hearing and it was adopted unanimously (5-0) by the commission: Canelo gets a one-year suspension, but because he has cooperated it is suspended to six months, as per the commission rules allow. He will eligible to fight Aug. 18, six months from the date of his first positive test. This means he can fight a rematch with Gennady Golovkin in September assuming GGG defeats substitute opponent Vanes Martirosyan on May 5."


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

I like vanes and he is world class, but he is out for 2 years and not very fresh at this point... just hope he puts up a good fight due to his good boxing ability.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> A draw is a defense tho isn't it


I can see it both ways. Yes or no. Because he most certainly didn't lose the fight. Look at it like baseball, (yes, baseball) if you go to plate and draw a walk or get hit by the pitch that's slotted as a "Plate Appearance" whereas if you put the ball in play, it's an "At Bat" whether you reached base or called out. Hope that makes at least a little bit of sense...


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> I can see it both ways. Yes or no. Because he most certainly didn't lose the fight. Look at it like baseball, (yes, baseball) if you go to plate and draw a walk or get hit by the pitch that's slotted as a "Plate Appearance" whereas if you put the ball in play, it's an "At Bat" whether you reached base or called out. Hope that makes at least a little bit of sense...


I think on the books it counts tho. That's what it really means to have to "take the belt" from the champ


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Dan predicted this exact outcome. Fair play to him.

As for Golovkin. I'm guessing he's going to be faced with the choice of taking the rematch in September or facing Derevyanchenko or being stripped. Wouldn't be surprised either way. We might see the defense followed by Canelo in May '19 or he may opt for the bigger payday and forfeit the belt.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I think on the books it counts tho. That's what it really means to have to "take the belt" from the champ


Well, there was a result. It's not as if they didn't fight. So I guess if someone didn't take it from you, then you defended it even if you didn't win the fight. Although, that could even be looked at as just a matter of circumstance. Because how could you defend something if you didn't even win?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> Well, there was a result. It's not as if they didn't fight. So I guess if someone didn't take it from you, then you defended it even if you didn't win the fight. Although, that could even be looked at as just a matter of circumstance. Because how could you defend something if you didn't even win?


By not losing, you fought them off. It's like defending a castle. You don't have to destroy the other army, just stop them from getting in. The throne is still yours.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> By not losing, you fought them off. It's like defending a castle. You don't have to destroy the other army, just stop them from getting in. The throne is still yours.


Because the throne was already yours. If it was not, then what did you do? It's not a nebulous thing, being the champion of the world, but it's not a win! You can say that because it's already yours and in this case many feel as though he won. What if it was a draw and it was widely agreed upon that he lost? Do you compete to a draw? Hello!


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Also, shout out to Vanes for getting this fight. Closed mouth don't get fed...


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> Also, shout out to Vanes for getting this fight. Closed mouth don't get fed...


I don't know man. That's pretty short term thinking and the payday for this fight isn't great because of the reduced budget. You say a closed mouth don't get fed but loose lips sink ships also. He trashed Haymon after Haymon was pretty good to him. This is his first fight in two years and he's signed with Don King now, is that right? Don King doesn't appear to have done shit for him in 12 months and I don't think Vanes is a fighter who's going to have a run of opportunism fights. He'd have been better off, I think, keeping his mouth shut and being one of Haymon's 154 gatekeepers.


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> I don't know man. That's pretty short term thinking and the payday for this fight isn't great because of the reduced budget. You say a closed mouth don't get fed but loose lips sink ships also. He trashed Haymon after Haymon was pretty good to him. This is his first fight in two years and he's signed with Don King now, is that right? Don King doesn't appear to have done shit for him in 12 months and I don't think Vanes is a fighter who's going to have a run of opportunism fights. He'd have been better off, I think, keeping his mouth shut and being one of Haymon's 154 gatekeepers.


he should have never left haymon


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Dan predicted this exact outcome. Fair play to him.
> 
> As for Golovkin. I'm guessing he's going to be faced with the choice of taking the rematch in September or facing Derevyanchenko or being stripped. Wouldn't be surprised either way. We might see the defense followed by Canelo in May '19 or he may opt for the bigger payday and forfeit the belt.


I'm hearing that team GGG took the risk of IBF possibly being stripped and was not a sanctioned fight by IBF.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Doc said:


> I'm hearing that team GGG took the risk of IBF possibly being stripped and was not a sanctioned fight by IBF.


What do you mean Doc? You mean they supposedly took the Vanes fight not knowing whether the IBF would strip GGG or not?

I can't see that scenario personally. I think Loeffler will probably have been working all hours trying to negotiate the vanes fight, not getting stripped and the belt not being on the line will probably have been a compromise on the condition Derevyanchenko is next.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Kurushi said:


> I don't know man. That's pretty short term thinking and the payday for this fight isn't great because of the reduced budget. You say a closed mouth don't get fed but loose lips sink ships also. He trashed Haymon after Haymon was pretty good to him. This is his first fight in two years and he's signed with Don King now, is that right? Don King doesn't appear to have done shit for him in 12 months and I don't think Vanes is a fighter who's going to have a run of opportunism fights. He'd have been better off, I think, keeping his mouth shut and being one of Haymon's 154 gatekeepers.


You're absolutely right. The mind-blowingly terrible management of his career is a factor here. He leaves a group that people in the game (haters) say treat their fighters too good only to join a man who is notoriously the worst at handling fighters. He's also elderly, and no longer has any cache in the game. Has not fought since Bill Cosby was Dr. Huxtable, lost whenever he has been at or near the top level of the sport. Yeah, he needs this REAL bad...


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> You're absolutely right. The mind-blowingly terrible management of his career is a factor here. He leaves a group that people in the game (haters) say treat their fighters too good only to join a man who is notoriously the worst at handling fighters. He's also elderly, and no longer has any cache in the game. Has not fought since Bill Cosby was Dr. Huxtable, lost whenever he has been at or near the top level of the sport. Yeah, he needs this REAL bad...


Yeah. And King's own lack of cache is no more evident than in the losing record of his fighters. Cloud, Stiverne are the first to come to mind. He promotes fighters who are brought in to lose.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Great Vanes is being trained by Rhonda Rousey's boxing coach

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/4/...n-trained-vanes-martirosyan-may-5-boxing-news


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Great Vanes is being trained by Rhonda Rousey's boxing coach
> 
> https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/4/...n-trained-vanes-martirosyan-may-5-boxing-news


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Divi253 said:


>


:lol:


----------



## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Vanes has a decent local following. Lots of Armenians in Glendale and Torrance, with Torrance being very near Stub Hub.

That's all I got, really. Glad to see the under card fighters will still get a shot to perform but the main event will be the worst fight on the card.

Roman Gonzalez is the supporting bout.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> :lol:


Why would Vanes sign him? I'm so confused, he must bring something to the table.... Or charge very little.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> Vanes has a decent local following. Lots of Armenians in Glendale and Torrance, with Torrance being very near Stub Hub.
> 
> That's all I got, really. Glad to see the under card fighters will still get a shot to perform but the main event will be the worst fight on the card.
> 
> Roman Gonzalez is the supporting bout.


The Gonzalez bout is the one I'm really looking forward to.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Why would Vanes sign him? I'm so confused, he must bring something to the table.... Or charge very little.


They're both Armenian, so maybe he just feels comfortable with him. It can't be because he thinks he's good.


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

Zopilote said:


> The Gonzalez bout is the one I'm really looking forward to.


Is that still on?


----------



## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> The Gonzalez bout is the one I'm really looking forward to.


I had a perfect view of the KO in his last fight. I'm surprised he's fighting on. I don't think his opponent has enough power to do that to him again.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

ElKiller said:


> Is that still on?


I believe so. I checked boxrec yesterday, it said it was still on.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> The Gonzalez bout is the one I'm really looking forward to.


The Jibran Triumph you mean?


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Great Vanes is being trained by Rhonda Rousey's boxing coach


Wait, somebody actually "coached" Rousey to look like that?? atsch


----------



## Boxed Ears (Jun 13, 2012)

I told people for years that Golovkin was avoiding all fighters with the Armenian style. Well, I guess it's time I manned up and admitted I was wrong.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> Wait, somebody actually "coached" Rousey to look like that?? atsch


:rofl unfortunately


----------



## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> :rofl unfortunately


What I would do to see her and Mike Alvarado have a shadowbox-off, capoeira style.


----------



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Great Vanes is being trained by Rhonda Rousey's boxing coach
> 
> https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/4/...n-trained-vanes-martirosyan-may-5-boxing-news


Golovkins fucked now.


----------



## scorpion (Jun 24, 2013)

rjjfan said:


> Golovkins fucked now.


It's quite obvious he is an underrated coach, it's just limited forms of martial arts like boxing and mma can't possibly utilize all of this man's deadly techniques. Otherwise his fighters would clean up easy.


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Vanes is a disappointing match up, I'm sure they could of brought someone else in at short notice. Hopefully the card is loaded full of top match ups to make it worth our while.


----------



## Gully Foyle (May 7, 2016)

thehook13 said:


> Vanes is a disappointing match up, I'm sure they could of brought someone else in at short notice. Hopefully the card is loaded full of top match ups to make it worth our while.


It's a terrible match up...not only is Vanes been inactive, but he hasn't done anything at 160 at any point to warrant this type of shot.

That first Mexican guy they were gonna fight would have been alot better than this shit show.


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Gully Foyle said:


> It's a terrible match up...not only is Vanes been inactive, but he hasn't done anything at 160 at any point to warrant this type of shot.
> 
> That first Mexican guy they were gonna fight would have been alot better than this shit show.


Wouldnt surprise me if GGG gets stripped. He has mandatories i think. Ibf


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> Vanes is a disappointing match up, I'm sure they could of brought someone else in at short notice. Hopefully the card is loaded full of top match ups to make it worth our while.


Chocolatito vs Guevara should be a nice scrap.


----------



## Guest (Apr 25, 2018)

The more excuses I hear from K2 the more I think it was a duck of Dereyanchenko. After all the #allofthebelts talk they would rather sell 500 more tickets than keep the IBF. I call bullshit.


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Choco is out, they'll air a chick fight instead.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

cards just getting better and better...


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I'll be getting so drunk that night.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Choco is out, they'll air a chick fight instead.


WHAT!?


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Choco is out, they'll air a chick fight instead.


Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!!

https://www.ringtv.com/534245-roman...aekhus-open-hbo-telecast-history-making-bout/


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

What a stink-fest of a card.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)




----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Just saw Gonzalez is out. Only reason I was happy for this card to go ahead. Should have cancelled and fought Derevyanchenko in June/July instead and had Choco back on.


----------



## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

Only person to blame for this shit fight is Canelo for either cheating or not paying attention to what he's eating.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Just saw Gonzalez is out. Only reason I was happy for this card to go ahead. Should have cancelled and fought Derevyanchenko in June/July instead and had Choco back on.


What about Canelo?


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> What about Canelo?


He's banned until September so if GGG had pulled this date and fought in June he could have likely fought Canelo in Sept still if he'd so pleased.

Would prefer the Saunders fight personally, he's already beat Canelo imo.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> He's banned until September so if GGG had pulled this date and fought in June he could have likely fought Canelo in Sept still if he'd so pleased.
> 
> Would prefer the Saunders fight personally, he's already beat Canelo imo.


I think that three months is too short a turnaround for an aging fighter. That's two pretty difficult fights back to back for a guy who's grown accustomed to two fights in an entire year.

I don't really care to see him fight Canelo again, but he obviously wants that payday and I can't fault him for that.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> I think that three months is too short a turnaround for an aging fighter. That's two pretty difficult fights back to back for a guy who's grown accustomed to two fights in an entire year.
> 
> I don't really care to see him fight Canelo again, but he obviously wants that payday and I can't fault him for that.


Maybes but he wants to fight more than he actually does now. I just think that promoters/networks get in the way of activity as they want to build fights over long periods when fighters get to a certain level.

He wants that fight most, it brings the most cash but he must already be in the 8 digits money wise. He got three million for Brook, I imagine at least five for Canelo I and should have got a couple for Jacobs. All the rest combined should have him around the 10-15 million mark at least.

He should go for legacy over cash. Most have him victorious over Canelo and the Saunders fight brings more for his overall legacy at this point. Canelo has had two shots and blew them both.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

thehook13 said:


> Vanes is a disappointing match up, I'm sure they could of brought someone else in at short notice. Hopefully the card is loaded full of top match ups to make it worth our while.


HBO is leading with a women's bout. So that tells you where they're at with this...


----------



## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

Will Dean Spanos be there


----------



## khan_is_delusional (Jul 14, 2015)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/992128026837073920


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

allenko1 said:


> HBO is leading with a women's bout. So that tells you where they're at with this...


They're also ending with a women's bout. :lol:


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Cableaddict said:


> They're also ending with a women's bout. :lol:


damn...


----------



## desertlizard (Dec 29, 2015)

they are feeding us with a bs train, and we all ve t0 take a bite


----------



## BrotherMouzone (Oct 28, 2014)

My prefight analysis and prediction for this fight: http://masterclassboxing.blogspot.com/2018/05/golovkin-vs-martirosyan-quick-prefight.html


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

This is a ppv in Australia :rofl

Shit we put up with....


----------



## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> This is a ppv in Australia :rofl
> 
> Shit we put up with....


:sad5


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Times like this I'm glad I'm on medication :sad5


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

Chances of martisoyan making it 12 rds?


----------



## JDK (Jun 3, 2013)

Crean said:


> Chances of martisoyan making it 12 rds?


Same as yours or mine.


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

JDK said:


> Same as yours or mine.


See, im actually slightly conflicted on it.

I think with his stamina he could potentially make it 12.


----------



## JDK (Jun 3, 2013)

Crean said:


> See, im actually slightly conflicted on it.
> 
> I think with his stamina he could potentially make it 12.


No, my friend, they've already scheduled a CT scan post fight. That's no lie. 
If it miraculously goes 12 rds it would be because GGG would have carried him there.


----------



## JDK (Jun 3, 2013)

If I sound bitter atm, it is because I’ve just learned reading back a page that Chocolatito will not be fighting tonight. I’m pissed.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

The fight won't go 6


----------



## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Vanes isn't a bad fighter, had a close one with charlo but he's too small


----------



## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

GGG should have sat out he is passed prime as it is.


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Damn, I just saw the time. They're showing this care late.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

When is main event, kids?


----------



## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

How long til the main event, my river is showing a concert


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

One of the better opponents on Golovkins resume, even though 2 year lay off...

vanes is a quality boxer and always had issues with being the B side in close fights so his record is deceiving. Big strong guy with a punch, i hope it lasts because 2 years layoff is hard to ignore.


----------



## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> When is main event, kids?


probably 9-10pm pst


----------



## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Vanes has no business getting in there with Golovkin but I'm always down to see Gennady rock a dude.

Hoping GGG uses this fight to show that he's still sharp and doesn't just lazily walk him down.


----------



## Sister Sledge (Oct 22, 2012)

Been a big fan of Vanes for a long tine. The layoff and the sizw differenxe will be too much.


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Where you guys watching? The link I'm on is showing a Bon Jovi concert. I don't really mind really but I want to watch boxing.


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Darn double post.


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Where you guys watching? The link I'm on is showing a Bon Jovi concert. I don't really mind really but I want to watch boxing.


I'm on the same. Card starts at 11 pm. according to the HBO site.


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

I hope to see a competitive fight. Martirosyan is no pushover.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Mexi-Box said:


> I hope to see a competitive fight. Martirosyan is no pushover.


Was last night.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

I hoped GGG got beat, oh well.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

That Cavs game was good as hell


----------



## Super_Fly_Sam (May 22, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> This is a ppv in Australia :rofl
> 
> Shit we put up with....


Good ol Scruffy Murpheys had it on though!! 
Most pubs said no but I called up Scruffys sunday morning and they were happy to get it on. 
the fight had about 15 people watching though. Doubt they made back their investment in it


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Golovkin is a scary dude when he is pissed off, that KO was brutal as fuck.


----------



## desertlizard (Dec 29, 2015)

Chatty said:


> Golovkin is a scary dude when he is pissed off, that KO was brutal as fuck.


well Little mart had it c0min he went there t0 ramble and gave 0 fucks


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Golovkin is a scary dude fighting undersized plodders coming off a 2 year layoff


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

GGG finally looks young again


----------



## EL MAS MACHO (Jun 6, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> GGG finally looks young again





bballchump11 said:


> That Cavs game was good as hell


Why be such a hater? Golovkin has been great for the sport and he's exciting to watch and all you've done is moan.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

EL MAS MACHO said:


> Why be such a hater? Golovkin has been great for the sport and he's exciting to watch and all you've done is moan.


You want the short or long answer?

And the card was a joke from the start, so yeah. I preferred to watch Lebron hit his game winner than to watch women's boxing and GGG fight a mismatch.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

EL MAS MACHO said:


> Why be such a hater? Golovkin has been great for the sport and he's exciting to watch and all you've done is moan.


It's odd because I thought his ass was out slamming tequilas and getting laid on Cinco de Mayo but most notifications I get on this thread are his salty ass telling us how uninterested he was in the fight.

"Hey Bbaby, when you gonna let me suck that dick?"

"Hold on a minute bitch, damn, I gotta let CHB know how little I care about this fucking card tonight"


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> It's odd because I thought his ass was out slamming tequilas and getting laid on Cinco de Mayo but most notifications I get on this thread are his salty ass telling us how uninterested he was in the fight.
> 
> "Hey Bbaby, when you gonna let me suck that dick?"
> 
> "Hold on a minute bitch, damn, I gotta let CHB know how little I care about this fucking card tonight"


:lol:


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> It's odd because I thought his ass was out slamming tequilas and getting laid on Cinco de Mayo but most notifications I get on this thread are his salty ass telling us how uninterested he was in the fight.
> 
> "Hey Bbaby, when you gonna let me suck that dick?"
> 
> "Hold on a minute bitch, damn, I gotta let CHB know how little I care about this fucking card tonight"


I was drinking all day on Saturday. The second post wasn't drunk however. And I love how yall get so upset over GGG. You'll be so polite to me on any other topic, but I strike a nerve on this one.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

And I said two very harmless comments at that :lol:. Yall need to grow a pair. I could say much worse.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I was drinking all day on Saturday. The second post wasn't drunk however. And I love how yall get so upset over GGG. You'll be so polite to me on any other topic, but I strike a nerve on this one.





bballchump11 said:


> And I said two very harmless comments at that :lol:. Yall need to grow a pair. I could say much worse.


You don't have to explain it man. I was kidding. I'm hoping, and assuming, you had a great weekend! :cheers


----------



## EL MAS MACHO (Jun 6, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> You want the short or long answer?
> 
> And the card was a joke from the start, so yeah. I preferred to watch Lebron hit his game winner than to watch women's boxing and GGG fight a mismatch.


I'll take the short or the long answer.

Why do you hate Golovkin so much?


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> :lol: It's Cinco De Mayo, so we have to get Munguia.





Divi253 said:


> Crazy shit is instead of everyone saying it's a shit fight, I swear I saw some saying it was a good fight... Not acceptable, not decent last minute replacement. But a good fight. :lol:


Woops


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Woops


?????


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Divi253 said:


> ?????


Some people had watched him and were saying Munguia was a good fight for GGG, you laughed about that but turns out he would be


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Some people had watched him and were saying Munguia was a good fight for GGG, you laughed about that but turns out he would be


Ehh, being huge doesn't mean he'd be a good fight IMO. I'll agree to disagree until I see more than him beating a severely undersized Ali. Would have been better than Vanes, I agree with that.


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Divi253 said:


> Ehh, being huge doesn't mean he'd be a good fight IMO. I'll agree to disagree until I see more than him beating a severely undersized Ali. Would have been better than Vanes, I agree with that.


He was Ring prospect of the year and those that had watched him said he was talented. One week later he's an undefeated world champion.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

JamieC said:


> He was Ring prospect of the year and those that had watched him said he was talented. One week later he's an undefeated world champion.


I just don't think a big strong guy is gonna be a challenge for GGG, size and power aren't what's going to give him problems. Be entertaining to see GGG beat him down though.


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Divi253 said:


> I just don't think a big strong guy is gonna be a challenge for GGG, size and power aren't what's going to give him problems. Be entertaining to see GGG beat him down though.


Oh I don't think he'd win at this stage of GGG career, but it's a good fight.


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Oh I don't think he'd win at this stage of GGG career, but it's a good fight.


I don't see him testing GGG in any way, guess that's what I mean by a good fight, one we can see questions answered. It'd be entertaining I'm sure.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> You don't have to explain it man. I was kidding. I'm hoping, and assuming, you had a great weekend! :cheers


lol it's all good.



EL MAS MACHO said:


> I'll take the short or the long answer.
> 
> Why do you hate Golovkin so much?


It all stems from Sergio Martinez originally. I'll find an old post of mine that explains it.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

EL MAS MACHO said:


> I'll take the short or the long answer.
> 
> Why do you hate Golovkin so much?


http://checkhookboxing.com/index.ph...hate-and-vice-versa.93970/page-5#post-2947434

Second is the *Gennady Golovkin* like most expected from me. I'll talk about how my opinions developed of him. I was a huge Sergio Martinez fan. He was a straight warrior and one of the most competitive and ambitious fighters in boxing. I saw him come up the long and painful way. He couldn't find the fights he wanted, so he went up to 160 while undersized and took on the lineal champ in his first fight. He also fought the very feared Paul Williams twice and gave up many size advantages. He was afraid of nobody.

Then years later, I get some nerds on the internet telling me how he's ducking some unknown guy who's never even fought in America. These fans were extremely disrespectful to the proven Martinez while hyping up a guy who's only win was a tough fight against a shot Kassim Ouma. When he finally fought on HBO, he says in his first interview in 2012 that he'd fight anybody from 154 to 168. That immediately started hyping up a potential Andre Ward fight. More and more that fight started building steam and HBO, fans and GGG's team were trying to build it up while Ward is out of commission.

I was intrigued by GGG because I did think he was pretty good and everybody claimed he was the most feared man in boxing. I bought into that for only a second thankfully. Out of nowhere Erislandy Lara speaks up and says he'd move up to 160 to fight him. I thought, "wow, here's an opportunity for GGG to finally fight somebody good". Instead of accepting the offer, they brushed Lara off for a multitude of hypocritical and bullshitass reasons. I was perplexed how a guy begging for a fight would turn down this fight. It made me realize that this "most feared man in boxing" gimmick was just that.. a gimmick. Not to mention once Ward finally did come out of commission, they hit the breaks on that fight.

I was arguing with posters on this very site about how Ward was afraid of GGG and he turned down the fight when he was in court and injured. Those conversations flipped to how Ward was bullying GGG and he needs to move up in weigh to fight Kovalev. GGG will fight anybody from 154-168 as long as it's not the best figher at 154 and 168. GGG is just another media darling and phony who doesn't have the ambition of a Vasyl Lomachenko, Usyk, Sergio Martinez, Erislandy Lara, Andre Ward, etc.


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## EL MAS MACHO (Jun 6, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> http://checkhookboxing.com/index.ph...hate-and-vice-versa.93970/page-5#post-2947434
> 
> Second is the *Gennady Golovkin* like most expected from me. I'll talk about how my opinions developed of him. I was a huge Sergio Martinez fan. He was a straight warrior and one of the most competitive and ambitious fighters in boxing. I saw him come up the long and painful way. He couldn't find the fights he wanted, so he went up to 160 while undersized and took on the lineal champ in his first fight. He also fought the very feared Paul Williams twice and gave up many size advantages. He was afraid of nobody.
> 
> ...


A media darling and a phony? Aren't you a a Canelo fan?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

EL MAS MACHO said:


> A media darling and a phony? Aren't you a a Canelo fan?


I am and I do get upset with Canelo's special treatment from time to time. I criticized the hell out of him when he fought Khan also.


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> http://checkhookboxing.com/index.ph...hate-and-vice-versa.93970/page-5#post-2947434
> 
> Second is the *Gennady Golovkin* like most expected from me. I'll talk about how my opinions developed of him. I was a huge Sergio Martinez fan. He was a straight warrior and one of the most competitive and ambitious fighters in boxing. I saw him come up the long and painful way. He couldn't find the fights he wanted, so he went up to 160 while undersized and took on the lineal champ in his first fight. He also fought the very feared Paul Williams twice and gave up many size advantages. He was afraid of nobody.
> 
> ...


Wrong, Canelo has clearly been the best at 154 for some time and for a long time it's been the fight to make. The Ward fight never was nor generated enough buzz to justify it taking place. They call it prizefighting for a reason and he had a choice between moving up in weight for far less money rather than chase a MW record and super fight, super fight money with Canelo. Also, just because Lara wants a fight doesn't mean it should take place or that the mother fucker even deserves it. Lara brings no money to the table and has no fans lol. Maybe if Lara beat Canelo and kept winning then that would've been the fight to make.

This is prizefighting and you've made a poor argument here saying he should've fought Ward or Erislandy Lara. It's been in GGG' best interest to chase the MW record and a super fight with Canelo. I'm sorry, but you don't know what the fuck you are talking about when it comes to GGG' career and matchmaking in general. I don't think it's the first time I told you either. It makes no sense to fight Lara or Ward before a fight with Canelo :lol: which is far more important and beneficial for the sport and everyone involved. GGG v Canelo was always the fight to make not this shoulda woulda coulda bullshit you pull up from years back.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> Wrong, Canelo has clearly been the best at 154 for some time and for a long time it's been the fight to make. The Ward fight never was nor generated enough buzz to justify it taking place. They call it prizefighting for a reason and he had a choice between moving up in weight for far less money rather than chase a MW record and super fight, super fight money with Canelo. Also, just because Lara wants a fight doesn't mean it should take place or that the mother fucker even deserves it. Lara brings no money to the table and has no fans lol. Maybe if Lara beat Canelo and kept winning then that would've been the fight to make.
> 
> This is prizefighting and you've made a poor argument here saying he should've fought Ward or Erislandy Lara. It's been in GGG' best interest to chase the MW record and a super fight with Canelo. I'm sorry, but you don't know what the fuck you are talking about when it comes to GGG' career and matchmaking in general. I don't think it's the first time I told you either. It makes no sense to fight Lara or Ward before a fight with Canelo :lol: which is far more important and beneficial for the sport and everyone involved. GGG v Canelo was always the fight to make not this shoulda woulda coulda bullshit you pull up from years back.


Canelo was the best fighter at 155 for a long time not 154. And GGG wasn't able to get him in the ring until last year. Why not fight Lara in the meantime?

And Ward would have been his biggest payday at the time, and it would have been a ppv fight. If GGG had no intention on fighting Ward, then they should have kept their mouths shut about going to 168 then and talking shit to Ward as if they wanted to fight.

And Lara brings more money and fans than Willie Monroe Jr. GGG's team said they picked Monroe literally just because he's southpaw. Lol Lara's schedule was wide open at the time. https://www.boxingscene.com/golovkin-sought-southpaw-challenge-we-picked-monroe--90301

You keep bringing up Canelo when he's only fought Canelo once, and it was last year. He's been on HBO for 6 years now. STFU about Canelo. It is not ok for GGG to cherry pick fights for 5 years waiting on Canelo to finally move up in weight. Ward wasn't allowed that same luxury to just wait around for GGG to fight him. Fans demanded he fight Kovalev.


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> Canelo was the best fighter at 155 for a long time not 154. And GGG wasn't able to get him in the ring until last year. Why not fight Lara in the meantime?
> 
> And Ward would have been his biggest payday at the time, and it would have been a ppv fight. If GGG had no intention on fighting Ward, then they should have kept their mouths shut about going to 168 then and talking shit to Ward as if they wanted to fight.
> 
> ...


Fans wanted Ward to fight Kovalev just as bad as they wanted Canelo to fight GGG or vice versa. Nobody gave a damn about him fighting Ward and still don't.

Lara wasn't a #1 Contender at MW and doubt he would've been a bigger payday than the Monroe defense. He would've had to split a small pot with Lara I would imagine. It makes zero sense to have gone out his way and risk losing a belt just to fight Lara.

As for Andre Ward, just put yourself in GGG' camp for a second because moving up to fight Andre Ward before a super fight with Canelo is not a good or smart move. You don't seem to get that it's one fight (super fight) before the other. Priorities... I'm certain moving up in weight was in the cards and still might be, but you are talking about a fight nobody gave a fuck about. Andre Ward is an Olympic Gold Medalist, but casuals don't even know who he is. He is also hard to watch.

It's not cherry picking when you are fighting mandatories for two and eventually three different belts. Like I said, this is small, insignificant shit we are talking about. We spent years clamoring for some real shit like Mayweather v Pac so don't act like we missed out on something. If you truly hold it against him for not fighting Lara or Ward then you just don't get it.


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