# Greater fighter: Jones Jr or Mayweather Jr?



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Now, I think a legitimate case can be made for either man... Both become champ at multiple weight classes, both incredibly skilled fighters in their prime. 

I think I'm going to go with Jones Jr. though, if not for anything else, his resume was very very impressive. He beat Hopkins, Toney, Virgil Hill, Reggie Johnson, Clinton Woods, Griffin, so he has a very solid resume. I think better than Mayweather's. One thing for sure is that he beat two all time greats in Toney & Hopkins, both in their prime, which is what Mayweather never did. 

Of course you can say Mayweather has more longevity, but I don't think it's enough to give him the nod over Jones. 

Thoughts?


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Jones. 

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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Jones Jr., and just look how he performed in these fights. But amazing wins over Pac and Martinez change that definitely.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Jones Jr., and just look how he performed in these fights. But amazing wins over Pac and Martinez change that definitely.


It would have been better if Mayweather fought them when they were closer to their prime. Same thing with Cotto, and he never fought Paul Williams.


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## jonnytightlips (Jun 14, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> It would have been better if Mayweather fought them when they were closer to their prime. Same thing with Cotto, and he never fought Paul Williams.


Mayweather would have schooled Williams.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

jonnytightlips said:


> Mayweather would have schooled Williams.


Look, that's cool to say but the bottom line is that Williams was like the Mike McCallum of the era. I would've made Mayweather the favorite over Williams as well but Williams still would have shown Mayweather size, height, pressure, VOLUME, and just a different look he was use to seeing at the time. Around 2007-2008 Williams would have had a reasonable chance to take on Mayweather.

I think Jones Jr. would've schooled Steve Collins, Eubank, Benn, Nunn, McClellan but he never fought any of them when he realistically could. So they are both guilty of this. 
,


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## jonnytightlips (Jun 14, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> Look, that's cool to say but the bottom line is that Williams was like the Mike McCallum of the era. I would've made Mayweather the favorite over Williams as well but Williams still would have shown Mayweather size, height, pressure, VOLUME, and just a different look he was use to seeing at the time. Around 2007-2008 Williams would have had a reasonable chance to take on Mayweather.
> 
> I think Jones Jr. would've schooled Steve Collins, Eubank, Benn, Nunn, McClellan but he never fought any of them when he realistically could. So they are both guilty of this.
> ,


Williams after beating Margarito was a dangerous fight for anyone but Mayweather I feel. Wouldn't be too far off the Corrales fight I feel.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

jonnytightlips said:


> Williams after beating Margarito was a dangerous fight for anyone but Mayweather I feel. Wouldn't be too far off the Corrales fight I feel.


Mayweather would still have to deal with the height and volume bro. I don't know how Floyd would deal with him.


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## jonnytightlips (Jun 14, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> Mayweather would still have to deal with the height and volume bro. I don't know how Floyd would deal with him.


Carlos Quintana dealt with it pretty well first time round.


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## Primadonna Kool (Jun 14, 2012)

Roy Jones on achievements and displays of ability.

_Lets not forget guys, Roy Jones technically went 49-0 and in that time was Middle Weight, Super Middle Weight, Undisputed Light Heavyweight and WBA World Heavyweight Champion......_

Floyd Mayweather has never unified a division!


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

jonnytightlips said:


> Carlos Quintana dealt with it pretty well first time round.


:kwonooh


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> It would have been better if Mayweather fought them when they were closer to their prime. Same thing with Cotto, and he never fought Paul Williams.


Not every fighter fights people in their absolute primes man.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

jonnytightlips said:


> Carlos Quintana dealt with it pretty well first time round.


Floyd still NEVER DID it so he never put all of his hypothetical shit to rest. A duck is a duck, m8. I think he would've won, the bottom line is that he was a legit threat and he never fought him.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Floyd still NEVER DID it so he never put all of his hypothetical shit to rest. A duck is a duck, m8. I think he would've won, the bottom line is that he was a legit threat and he never fought him.


Why do you rate Williams so high? Is he Hagler's cousin?


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

This is not even close. 

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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Roy yesterday, Roy today, Roy tomorrow


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Why do you rate Williams so high? Is he Hagler's cousin?


:rofl

I just think he's one of the threats Floyd skipped out on during his "retirements"


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Primadonna Kool said:


> Roy Jones on achievements and displays of ability.
> 
> _Lets not forget guys, Roy Jones technically went 49-0 and in that time was Middle Weight, Super Middle Weight, Undisputed Light Heavyweight and WBA World Heavyweight Champion......_
> 
> Floyd Mayweather has never unified a division!


If Floyd unified now with Shawn Porter, Maidana and Pacquiao, how much credit would you give him?


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## Primadonna Kool (Jun 14, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> If Floyd unified now with Shawn Porter, Maidana and Pacquiao, how much credit would you give him?


I give Floyd Mayweather plenty of credit...

He is 100 miles ahead of most fighters today, only really Amir Khan from a stylistic perspective will be challenging.

The only fighters that could beat him today are ether dead or retired.

Hearns, Duran, De La Hoya, Robinson, Leonard etc......


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

Primadonna Kool said:


> I give Floyd Mayweather plenty of credit...
> 
> He is 100 miles ahead of most fighters today, only really Amir Khan from a stylistic perspective will be challenging.
> 
> ...


GGG at 160

This would add legacy.

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## Primadonna Kool (Jun 14, 2012)

Doc said:


> GGG at 160
> 
> This would add legacy.
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


Floyd Mayweather is a 147 pound fighter and 154 at the max.

Oh yeh Sugar Ray Leonard would beat him aswell...

The only fighters that i would say COULD beat him are..? Dead or retired.

De La Hoya, Robinson, Ray Leonard, Duran, Hearns....


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> :rofl
> 
> I just think he's one of the threats Floyd skipped out on during his "retirements"


I just had to :lol:


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Roy yesterday, Roy today, Roy tomorrow


Here it is.


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## Leftsmash (Oct 22, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> Floyd still NEVER DID it so he never put all of his hypothetical shit to rest. A duck is a duck, m8. I think he would've won, the bottom line is that he was a legit threat and he never fought him.


Explain how it's a duck? He was only talked up as a threat after the Margarito victory which he then promptly lost to Quintana damaging his marketability for such a fight. Given that Floyd was already lined up against Hatton, I'm not sure where you expect this duck to have happened. I ask as you call duck quite a lot on here regarding Mayweather as you did recently with Lara.

Anyway Jones Jr for me, no question about it.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Roy for sure.


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

Roy and its not really close imo. As great as floyd is Roy was just greater. Do I need to even get into resumes?


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## Rexrapper 1 (Jun 4, 2013)

Roy Jones is the best fighter of my life time (1990-present).


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)




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## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Now, I think a legitimate case can be made for either man... Both become champ at multiple weight classes, both incredibly skilled fighters in their prime.
> 
> I think I'm going to go with Jones Jr. though, if not for anything else, his resume was very very impressive. He beat Hopkins, Toney, Virgil Hill, Reggie Johnson, Clinton Woods, Griffin, so he has a very solid resume. I think better than Mayweather's. One thing for sure is that he beat two all time greats in Toney & Hopkins, both in their prime, which is what Mayweather never did.
> 
> ...


Jones, just because he had more "Wow" factor. Mayweather is more workman-like, nothing wrong with that, flashy is just better eye candy.


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

Had to go there didnt you. Smart ass


turbotime said:


>


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## El Terrible (Sep 16, 2013)

To now Mayweather is the greater fighter, Jones has heavily tarnished his legacy by taking steroids not to mention being KO'd by average opposition. How anyone can say RJJ is greater than Mayweather is beyond me.


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## Primadonna Kool (Jun 14, 2012)

El Terrible said:


> To now Mayweather is the greater fighter, Jones has heavily tarnished his legacy by taking steroids not to mention being KO'd by average opposition. How anyone can say RJJ is greater than Mayweather is beyond me.


You should be banned for awhile.

Roy Jones has achieved more in his career, its very simply....

*Note:* Don't reply to me, because i will not reply back.


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## El Terrible (Sep 16, 2013)

Primadonna Kool said:


> You should be banned for awhile.
> 
> Roy Jones has achieved more in his career, its very simply....
> 
> *Note:* Don't reply to me, because i will not reply back.


Being KO'd 4 times and taking steroids = greater.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Brnxhands said:


> Had to go there didnt you. Smart ass


I love James. Like I love Vargas but I havew no prob watching Tito


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Leftsmash said:


> Explain how it's a duck? He was only talked up as a threat after the Margarito victory which he then promptly lost to Quintana damaging his marketability for such a fight. Given that Floyd was already lined up against Hatton, I'm not sure where you expect this duck to have happened.


Paul Williams is not a big draw, the risk was not worth the reward.. I think that's what happened there. It's no secret alot of the top welterweights avoided Paul during that time period. He was the Black Horse of the WW division at the time. After decimating Quintana in 1 round his credibility was all on board and he was in a position for a Floyd fight after accumulating all of those wins. This is where Floyd's "retirements" come into play and where I think he just wanted to see the welterweights eliminate eachother so he could pick and choose who he wanted to fight.



> I ask as you call duck quite a lot on here regarding Mayweather as you did recently with Lara.


I said Floyd ducked Lara? well, if I did I guess I'll take it back; I don't think Lara is in a position to challenge Floyd. To me Lara is definitely a potential Floyd opponent, but I don't think it's fair to say Floyd is ducking him _YET_. If Lara beats Canelo in convincing fashion and Floyd fails to face him, then you have to start calling that a duck, yeah.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)




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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Can't vote against Roy and Floyd is my favorite fighter.. Roy was a fucking freak.


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

Jones taking legit challenges from 160 to 200 edges Mayweather.

If Floyd were to step up and fight Martinez at 160 and win that fight, then we have a contest.

Don't get me wrong, Floyd is true greatness. He just hasn't tested himself as thoroughly as Jones did in/after his prime.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

El Terrible said:


> Being KO'd 4 times and taking steroids = greater.


Beating two All Time Greats in their prime without barely dropping a round, dominating in 3 divisions, and being the first man to win belts at both 160 and Heavyweight = greater.


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## El Terrible (Sep 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Beating two All Time Greats in their prime without barely dropping a round, dominating in 3 divisions, and being the first man to win belts at both 160 and Heavyweight = greater.


All whilst taking steroids. Truly an atg :rolleyes


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

El Terrible said:


> All whilst taking steroids. Truly an atg :rolleyes


You can't assume those who haven't been caught are clean and leave them on the list while removing Jones. Otherwise go ahead and assume Jones only used them once, as he only tested positive once.

You are aware Richard Hall also tested positive in their bout, right? It was technically an even playing field. Unfortunately it's prevalent in the sport.

Besides, steroids can definitely help your physical condition in small but fruitful ways, but they aren't going to dramatically transform you as a fighter. There was far too large a margin between Roy and his opponents to ever think performance enhancing drugs were the secret to his long reign of success.

I won't argue against someone who thinks he deserves an asterisk next to his name, but being that good had very little to do with a slight edge in muscle mass or red blood cell count.


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## Macho_Grande (Jun 6, 2012)

jonnytightlips said:


> Mayweather would have schooled Williams.





tommygun711 said:


> It would have been better if Mayweather fought them when they were closer to their prime. Same thing with Cotto, and he never fought Paul Williams.





turbotime said:


> Why do you rate Williams so high? Is he Hagler's cousin?


Christ not this Paul Williams crap again... He has become this myth of a fighter since his accident. Williams does practically nothing when it comes to enhancing Mayweather's CV.

Mayweather is continually beaten over the head with the Williams & Margarito stick.. In reality he schools both easily.


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

I did this thread a while ago.
http://checkhookboxing.com/showthread.php?19981-Who%B4s-greater-Floyd-Jr-or-Roy-Jones-Jr


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


>


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


>


:rofl :rofl :rofl

:hey


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## Bungle (Jun 5, 2013)

Hopkins was in his prime?


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## MrJotatp4p (May 23, 2013)

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...%2520vs%2520Reggie%2520Johnson.gif?imgmax=640

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...AEPM/--XFIIdezQ8/4153c6fbdb020.gif?imgmax=640


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## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

Jones was incredible. If you don't see that....well I don't get where you're coming from and there's no point in debating the issue. I gotta go with Floyd though. Here's my reason. Jones developed his game to be predicated on his athletic gifts in every way shape or form. He held his hands low and out to the side and every other damned angle because it made his punches almost impossible to see coming. At the same time without his gifts it doesn't work because he can't avoid incoming punches. He tried turtling up and a few other ideas, but it was far too late for someone like him to change his game. 

Mayweather on the other hand an still dominate and outbox anyone in the game without relying on pure athletic gifts. It's amazing to see as he ages how he still gets away with what he does because of the subtleties to his game. The little head feints that force you to go forward or back and reset when he either changes the angle or follows it up with the straight right. It's amazing to see. We've seen him do it with the jab. We've seen him break people down with the leaping left hook, and we have ALL seen him break you down with lead right hand. Not to mention his jabs to the body that force people to reset and pay more attention to the body shots only to get hit with the right hand.

That's just my opinion though. One might say that Jones' greatness is in his ability to use his own style and make everyone look amateur and useless next to him for a fair amount of time. I have nothing but high praise for both fighters and what they accomplished though.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

Jones was great, yet he should have fought more top guys and fought everyone. But he was great, and more dominant then Floyd, and more impressive. Just on his reflexes.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

MrJotatp4p said:


> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...%2520vs%2520Reggie%2520Johnson.gif?imgmax=640
> 
> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...AEPM/--XFIIdezQ8/4153c6fbdb020.gif?imgmax=640


:smoke


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Poll closer than I would have thought


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> :rofl :rofl :rofl
> 
> :hey


I've lost count of how many times you've posted that. You're a cruel person. :-(


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

El Terrible said:


> All whilst taking steroids. Truly an atg :rolleyes


Stop it. Hall was on double the amounts when Jones beat that ass.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> Jones was incredible. If you don't see that....well I don't get where you're coming from and there's no point in debating the issue. I gotta go with Floyd though. Here's my reason. Jones developed his game to be predicated on his athletic gifts in every way shape or form. He held his hands low and out to the side and every other damned angle because it made his punches almost impossible to see coming. At the same time without his gifts it doesn't work because he can't avoid incoming punches. He tried turtling up and a few other ideas, but it was far too late for someone like him to change his game.
> 
> Mayweather on the other hand an still dominate and outbox anyone in the game without relying on pure athletic gifts. It's amazing to see as he ages how he still gets away with what he does because of the subtleties to his game. The little head feints that force you to go forward or back and reset when he either changes the angle or follows it up with the straight right. It's amazing to see. We've seen him do it with the jab. We've seen him break people down with the leaping left hook, and we have ALL seen him break you down with lead right hand. Not to mention his jabs to the body that force people to reset and pay more attention to the body shots only to get hit with the right hand.
> 
> That's just my opinion though. One might say that Jones' greatness is in his ability to use his own style and make everyone look amateur and useless next to him for a fair amount of time. I have nothing but high praise for both fighters and what they accomplished though.


I don't really understand why athletic fighters get punished for no longer being able to use their style once their old. At a certain point, everyone's style becomes unusable because of deterioration. Jones simply had less time to adjust as his deterioration was rather sudden.

Jones accomplished more, he should rank higher. The test for greatness is not whether you can still do well when shot; it's not a competition for athletic unspecialness.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Bungle said:


> Hopkins was in his prime?


Not at his overall peak as a fighter, but in his physical prime, yes.


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## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I don't really understand why athletic fighters get punished for no longer being able to use their style once their old. At a certain point, everyone's style becomes unusable because of deterioration. Jones simply had less time to adjust as his deterioration was rather sudden.
> 
> Jones accomplished more, he should rank higher. The test for greatness is not whether you can still do well when shot; it's not a competition for athletic unspecialness.


Because his skills relied upon his gifts almost entirely. Mayweather has built up a repertoire that allows him to do what he does longer and allows him to adjust when something is bothering him. Jones was so gifted that he never really had to adjust in his career. By time he needed to adjust to his opponent, he wasn't able to as he had his one style.

Look. There isn't a "wrong" answer here for me. They both have a great body of work and did things in the ring that absolutely break the hearts of people who think they could ever box professionally. If you were signing people to a boxing stable, you couldn't possibly go wrong with either.

I see exactly where you're coming from. My opinion differs for my own reasons on how I see it. It isn't like I'm putting Mayweather way over Jones or anything. Had to pick one, so I did and explained my reasoning.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> Because his skills relied upon his gifts almost entirely.


I can't disagree more. This simply can't happen in boxing. You can hit like a truck and have blinding speed, if you don't know how to box, you aren't going anywhere. Jones had great punching form and selection, great footwork, a great jab, could control of distance and own the center of the ring, knew how to counter depending on which direction he slipped his head towards, etc.



aliwasthegreatest said:


> It isn't like I'm putting Mayweather way over Jones or anything


The thing is, Roy is more accomplished. He beat the better fighters. Floyd being able to gradually adjust with a great set of technical skills shouldn't trump that. To have Mayweather over him at all doesn't make sense to me.


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## Primadonna Kool (Jun 14, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Not at his overall peak as a fighter, but in his physical prime, yes.


Roy Jones was not in his prime ether...


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## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I can't disagree more. This simply can't happen in boxing. You can hit like a truck and have blinding speed, if you don't know how to box, you aren't going anywhere. Jones had great punching form and selection, great footwork, a great jab, could control of distance and own the center of the ring, knew how to counter depending on which direction he slipped his head towards, etc.
> 
> The thing is, Roy is more accomplished. He beat the better fighters. Floyd being able to gradually adjust with a great set of technical skills shouldn't trump that. To have Mayweather over him at all doesn't make sense to me.


That's how you feel. I disagree. Whether it makes sense to you isn't really relevant. You stated your opinion. I stated mine. You explained yours. I explained mine. You didn't get my explanation. That's fine.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> That's how you feel. I disagree. Whether it makes sense to you isn't really relevant. You stated your opinion. I stated mine. You explained yours. I explained mine. You didn't get my explanation. That's fine.


I understood your explanation, I'm just challenging your logic. If you don't want to engage then ok I guess.


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## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I understood your explanation, I'm just challenging your logic. If you don't want to engage then ok I guess.


You didn't challenge my logic. You gave me your opinion. You feel he had better wins. You feel that things I rate highly about Mayweather, aren't as important to you as they are to me. That's an opinion. Not a challenge of my logic. I don't really engage often on boxing. Just not that interested to go through long debates about something like boxing. I get where you are coming from. We seem to rate things of importance a bit differently. Is what it is. We just see it differently.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> You didn't challenge my logic. You gave me your opinion. You feel he had better wins. You feel that things I rate highly about Mayweather, aren't as important to you as they are to me. That's an opinion. Not a challenge of my logic. I don't really engage often on boxing. Just not that interested to go through long debates about something like boxing. I get where you are coming from. We seem to rate things of importance a bit differently. Is what it is. We just see it differently.


By disagreeing with what you heavily quantify, I'm challenging your criteria, the basis for your selection. Most don't ignore resume so much in their rankings, but if you choose to do so then so be it. Good day.


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## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> By disagreeing with what you heavily quantify, I'm challenging your criteria, the basis for your selection. Most don't ignore resume so much in their rankings, but if you choose to do so then so be it. Good day.


No need to act so butthurt about it. It's just boxing.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> No need to act so butthurt about it. It's just boxing.


It's you who seems mad at me  I am sorry.


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## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> It's you who seems mad at me  I am sorry.


Let me go ahead and apologize for upsetting you so much. It wasn't intended. Now you need not be angry any more.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> Let me go ahead and apologize for upsetting you so much. It wasn't intended. Now you need not be angry any more.


I'm more hurt than anything at this point. But you apologized too, so (sun)


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## R00ster (Jan 29, 2014)

Roy.


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

Mayweather > Lebedev


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## TSOL (Dec 15, 2013)

:conf


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## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

El Terrible said:


> To now Mayweather is the greater fighter, Jones has heavily tarnished his legacy by taking steroids not to mention being KO'd by average opposition. How anyone can say RJJ is greater than Mayweather is beyond me.


I don't understand this train of thought at all pal.

Greatness is pretty much resume based as anything else gives less of a picture. Did Jones Jr losing to Tarver delete his win over Toney? Did Mosley losing to Mayweather delete his win over Oscar? No, they are still there and wins are all that matters.

I believe Mayweather is an exceptional fighter and the sport will greatly miss him when he hangs them up but there are many fighters with better wins than him.

I will say that I think depth is important in a resume an area Mayweather has covered for the most part.

I voted Roy Jones and it was easy to do as it is not close.


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## El Terrible (Sep 16, 2013)

Hoshi said:


> I don't understand this train of thought at all pal.


 If RJJ had beaten Tarver in their second fight and then continued to go unbeaten to this day then it would have added to his legacy and his greatness and no doubt people would be proclaiming him possibly the greatest ever. That didn't happen, he went on to lose 3 fights in a row (2 via KO) and has since had an extremely patchy career.

When looking at any fighter's career as a whole you have to look at their entire career, not just snippets that suite a narrative. RJJ, like Holyfield and countless other fighters, have hurt their legacy's by prolonging their careers.


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## manos de piedra (Mar 30, 2014)

El Terrible said:


> If RJJ had beaten Tarver in their second fight and then continued to go unbeaten to this day then it would have added to his legacy and his greatness and no doubt people would be proclaiming him possibly the greatest ever. That didn't happen, he went on to lose 3 fights in a row (2 via KO) and has since had an extremely patchy career.
> 
> When looking at any fighter's career as a whole you have to look at their entire career, not just snippets that suite a narrative. RJJ, like Holyfield and countless other fighters, have hurt their legacy's by prolonging their careers.


So Ali losing to Holmes and berbick effects his legacy? Or Leonard losing to Norris and comacho? Duran to joppy? Robinson to joey archer? This effects all their legacies? Absolute rubbish. Losing fights when you're completely shot doesn't effect your legacy in the long run.


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## Primadonna Kool (Jun 14, 2012)

manos de piedra said:


> So Ali losing to Holmes and berbick effects his legacy? Or Leonard losing to Norris and comacho? Duran to joppy? Robinson to joey archer? This effects all their legacies? Absolute rubbish. Losing fights when you're completely shot doesn't effect your legacy in the long run.


Did Michael Jordan hurt his legacy by prolonging his career and getting abused..? No.

But in boxing retards like el terrible, seem to have memories like Gold Fish.

These are the type of people that are easily manipulated by the media, they also wait outside apple stores for the new iphone.......


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## manos de piedra (Mar 30, 2014)

Primadonna Kool said:


> Did Michael Jordan hurt his legacy by prolonging his career and getting abused..? No.
> 
> But in boxing retards like el terrible, seem to have memories like Gold Fish.
> I
> These are the type of people that are easily manipulated by the media, they also wait outside apple stores for the new iphone.......


Exactly. He's only saying that about jones and Holyfield because their poor performances are fresh in the memory, and he probably doesn't know how truly great they were (especially jones) in their prime. I guarantee in years to come their true greatness will be all that's remembered.


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## El Terrible (Sep 16, 2013)

manos de piedra said:


> So Ali losing to Holmes and berbick effects his legacy? Or Leonard losing to Norris and comacho? Duran to joppy? Robinson to joey archer? This effects all their legacies? Absolute rubbish. Losing fights when you're completely shot doesn't effect your legacy in the long run.


So if they won those fights would that have affected their legacy? If you lose whilst "shot" it doesn't count but if you win it does. Nice logic.


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## El Terrible (Sep 16, 2013)

Primadonna Kool said:


> Did Michael Jordan hurt his legacy by prolonging his career and getting abused..? No.
> 
> But in boxing retards like el terrible, seem to have memories like Gold Fish.
> 
> These are the type of people that are easily manipulated by the media, they also wait outside apple stores for the new iphone.......


What are you even talking about? Your argument is that it doesn't matter that a fighter loses because it doesn't count, so RJJ's wins over Trinidad and Lacy don't count either because he's shot.


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## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

Love Roy, but Floyd's late career dominance is pulling him closer and closer. Jones beating Ruiz keeps him ahead, but if Floyd fought a legitimately big MW(Sergio, GGG) and won, they'd be dead even. As of now, I rate Jones as the greatest of all time, but Floyd is in the top 10 and coming.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

El Terrible said:


> So if they won those fights would that have affected their legacy? If you lose whilst "shot" it doesn't count but if you win it does. Nice logic.


Listen this isn't a such a hard fucking concept to understand.

Jones, Ali, Leonard, Robinson, shit even Toney losing when they are shot does not effect legacy.

You should judge a fighter based on what they did in their primes or even a little bit past their primes to measure their greatness.

Jones beat Griffin, Reggie Johnson, Clinton Woods, Toney, Hopkins, Virgil Hill and Kelly in his prime.. Needless to say he accomplished more than Floyd.

I do not hold it against McCallum for losing to Jones when Mike was past his prime.



SouthPaw said:


> As of now, I rate Jones as the greatest of all time


Really? Better than Ali, Robinson, Leonard? Nah...


----------



## El Terrible (Sep 16, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Listen this isn't a such a hard fucking concept to understand.
> Jones, Ali, Leonard, Robinson, shit even Toney losing when they are shot does not effect legacy.
> You should judge a fighter based on what they did in their primes or even a little bit past their primes to measure their greatness.
> Jones beat Griffin, Reggie Johnson, Clinton Woods, Toney, Hopkins, Virgil Hill and Kelly in his prime.. Needless to say he accomplished more than Floyd.
> I do not hold it against McCallum for losing to Jones when Mike was past his prime.


You are becoming confused on your own poll. This is a question of who is greater, not who was better H2H in their prime, a question of greatness is more than their H2H potential. 
What you (and a few others) are essentially saying is that if a fighter loses after his prime it doesn't count but if he wins it does count. Does that make credible sense?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

El Terrible said:


> What are you even talking about? Your argument is that it doesn't matter that a fighter loses because it doesn't count, so RJJ's wins over Trinidad and Lacy don't count either because he's shot.


I doubt many people give Jones a lot of credit for those wins anyways :conf


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## manos de piedra (Mar 30, 2014)

El Terrible said:


> So if they won those fights would that have affected their legacy? If you lose whilst "shot" it doesn't count but if you win it does. Nice logic.


So those losses had a detrimental effect on all the fighters I named legacies? Robinson's legacy is tarnished because he lost fights in his 40s or Ali's legacy is tarnished because he fought on far too long? Duran, Leonard, hearns, louis? nearly every great fighter tarnishes their legacy by going on too long? Utter nonsense. From what your saying every single one of their legacies are tarnished because they lost fights when they were completely past it. Some carrying on for money some carrying on because they can't let go of the limelight. But because they do that it effects their legacy??? I think not! I don't think you'll a single fight fan that thinks Ali or robinsons legacies are tarnished through those losses.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

El Terrible said:


> You are becoming confused on your own poll. This is a question of who is greater, not who was better H2H in their prime, a question of greatness is more than their H2H potential.
> What you (and a few others) are essentially saying is that if a fighter loses after his prime it doesn't count but if he wins it does count. Does that make credible sense?


No, i'm not becoming confused. I rank H2H & greatness equal when ranking fighters. h2h-wise Floyd & Roy are both incredible fighters so are we supposed to ignore that? H2H-Ability is also apart of GREATNESS.

Why should it count towards their legacy when they are already shot? Just stop you're making no sense.


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## El Terrible (Sep 16, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> No, i'm not becoming confused. I rank H2H & greatness equal when ranking fighters. h2h-wise Floyd & Roy are both incredible fighters so are we supposed to ignore that? H2H-Ability is also apart of GREATNESS.
> 
> Why should it count towards their legacy when they are already shot? Just stop you're making no sense.


I never said that h2h wasn't important, I said it was more than just h2h, it's career as a whole.

Answer this t, if RJJ beat Calzaghe, or if Ali beat Holmes or Robinson beat Fullmer would that have added to their legacy?


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## El Terrible (Sep 16, 2013)

manos de piedra said:


> So those losses had a detrimental effect on all the fighters I named legacies? Robinson's legacy is tarnished because he lost fights in his 40s or Ali's legacy is tarnished because he fought on far too long? Duran, Leonard, hearns, louis? nearly every great fighter tarnishes their legacy by going on too long? Utter nonsense. From what your saying every single one of their legacies are tarnished because they lost fights when they were completely past it. Some carrying on for money some carrying on because they can't let go of the limelight. But because they do that it effects their legacy??? I think not! I don't think you'll a single fight fan that thinks Ali or robinsons legacies are tarnished through those losses.


Yes, if they had gone unbeaten through those fights and ended their careers with an 0 then their legacy would no doubt be greater. Think.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

El Terrible said:


> Answer this t, if RJJ beat Calzaghe, or if Ali beat Holmes or Robinson beat Fullmer would that have added to their legacy?


What a dumb question. They were too far gone to be at that level. Its obvious. Ali was shot and sick with parkensions. Nobody even gives credit to ali for beating spinks. Bottom line is that he shouldve retired after manila or after shavers; just because a fighter goes on for too long doesnt mean it subtracts from his legacy.


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## El Terrible (Sep 16, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> What a dumb question. They were too far gone to be at that level. Its obvious. Ali was shot and sick with parkensions. Nobody even gives credit to ali for beating spinks. Bottom line is that he shouldve retired after manila or after shavers; just because a fighter goes on for too long doesnt mean it subtracts from his legacy.


Again ignoring the question, don't worry it's a hypothetical one, you can answer it. If they had won those fights would it have added to their legacy?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> What a dumb question. They were too far gone to be at that level. Its obvious. Ali was shot and sick with parkensions. Nobody even gives credit to ali for beating spinks. Bottom line is that he shouldve retired after manila or after shavers; just because a fighter goes on for too long doesnt mean it subtracts from his legacy.


and, like, Robinson beat Fullmer, ya know?


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

El Terrible said:


> Again ignoring the question, don't worry it's a hypothetical one, you can answer it. If they had won those fights would it have added to their legacy?


Basically you're asking if they weren't shot?


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## manos de piedra (Mar 30, 2014)

El Terrible said:


> Yes, if they had gone unbeaten through those fights and ended their careers with an 0 then their legacy would no doubt be greater. Think.


So a victory over joey archer would have added to robinson's legacy? No it wouldn't. It would have just been another routine victory for him in his prime. The fact he lost to him in his 40s doesn't subtract a single thing from his legacy. Think!


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

I guess Archie Moore's legacy has to be diminished too since he lost to Ali & Patterson


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## El Terrible (Sep 16, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Basically you're asking if they weren't shot?


Nope, not even close, I'm asking if they won those fights would it count towards their legacy. It's not a difficult question but your refusal to answer it is quite amusing, the answer is yes, of course if would add to their legacy, just like a hurts it.

This is essentially the same silly argument that die hard Tyson fans use, the old "anything after 88 does not count and basically never happened". It's a silly arguemtn that doesn't/shouldn't work.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

El Terrible said:


> Nope, not even close, I'm asking if they won those fights would it count towards their legacy. It's not a difficult question but your refusal to answer it is quite amusing, the answer is yes, of course if would add to their legacy, just like a hurts it.
> 
> This is essentially the same silly argument that die hard Tyson fans use, the old "anything after 88 does not count and basically never happened". It's a silly arguemtn that doesn't/shouldn't work.


What kind of throwaway point are you even making?

If they beat those guys it would just make them even more greater than Mayweather :conf


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

El Terrible said:


> Nope, not even close, I'm asking if they won those fights would it count towards their legacy. It's not a difficult question but your refusal to answer it is quite amusing, the answer is yes, of course if would add to their legacy, just like a hurts it.
> 
> This is essentially the same silly argument that die hard Tyson fans use, the old "anything after 88 does not count and basically never happened". It's a silly arguemtn that doesn't/shouldn't work.


Well, they would have to be not shot to beat those guys, so just stop. your argument makes no sense.

by the way no Tyson fanboy says that, because Tyson smoked rudduck in the 90s. So wrong again.


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## El Terrible (Sep 16, 2013)

turbotime said:


> What kind of throwaway point are you even making?
> 
> If they beat those guys it would just make them even more greater than Mayweather :conf


It's not a throwaway point, and I never said they weren't greater than Mayweather (except RJJ). RJJ carrying on his career and losing hurt his legacy, he lost at the highest level and still competes and has won at a high level since, and people are trying to say it doesn't count if he loses.


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## El Terrible (Sep 16, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Well, they would have to be not shot to beat those guys, so just stop. your argument makes no sense.
> 
> by the way no Tyson fanboy says that, because Tyson smoked rudduck in the 90s. So wrong again.


So by that logic RJJ wasn't shot when he beat Trinidad, and by extension wasn't shot when he was KO'd by Tarver and Johnson. You are not good at this.

You clearly haven't come across any tyson fans then, there's plenty of Tyson fans that say anything post 88 doesn't count because he split from Rooney and his personal life was chaotic. But really they say it doesn't count because he lost.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

El Terrible said:


> It's not a throwaway point, and I never said they weren't greater than Mayweather (except RJJ). RJJ carrying on his career and losing hurt his legacy, he lost at the highest level and still competes and has won at a high level since, and people are trying to say it doesn't count if he loses.


The poll says different :deal


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

El Terrible said:


> So by that logic RJJ wasn't shot when he beat Trinidad, and by extension wasn't shot when he was KO'd by Tarver and Johnson. You are not good at this.


Trinidad was past it too. Jones was past it for trinidad and lacy. He was past it for all of those losses except tarver II.


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## Duffy (Jun 13, 2013)

This poll just goes to show how good calzaghe really was.


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## Primadonna Kool (Jun 14, 2012)

El Terrible said:


> What are you even talking about? Your argument is that it doesn't matter that a fighter loses because it doesn't count, so RJJ's wins over Trinidad and Lacy don't count either because he's shot.


I am not saying they don't count, but they don't have the weight/credit attach to them for obvious reasons...

Its not rocket science.


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## Leftsmash (Oct 22, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> Paul Williams is not a big draw, the risk was not worth the reward.. I think that's what happened there. It's no secret alot of the top welterweights avoided Paul during that time period. He was the Black Horse of the WW division at the time. After decimating Quintana in 1 round his credibility was all on board and he was in a position for a Floyd fight after accumulating all of those wins. This is where Floyd's "retirements" come into play and where I think he just wanted to see the welterweights eliminate eachother so he could pick and choose who he wanted to fight.
> 
> I said Floyd ducked Lara? well, if I did I guess I'll take it back; I don't think Lara is in a position to challenge Floyd. To me Lara is definitely a potential Floyd opponent, but I don't think it's fair to say Floyd is ducking him _YET_. If Lara beats Canelo in convincing fashion and Floyd fails to face him, then you have to start calling that a duck, yeah.


You're right, Williams wasn't a draw and was considered a dark horse which was a damn shame but as mentioned but if you remember back in 2008, despite his revenge win over Quintana, it was start of a lot of questions being raised as to vulnerability to those that were mobile enough to outbox him and Quintana wasn't a great mover but pulled it off. If anything in 2008, the hype was riding on Cotto as the next opponent at the time of Williams win over Quintana despite Floyd already going on retirement at the end of 2007 so it's not quite correct in saying that Williams was next in position but both would find that year to be career changing.


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

I can't recall another ATG that had such a precipitous fall off like RJJ. With that said, RJJ might have had the better career, to this point, but Floyd is clearly the greater boxer.


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## Capaedia (Jun 6, 2013)

I accidentally voted Mayweather. Jones is clearly greater, but I wouldn't say clearly _better_.

Roy's wins over Toney and Hopkins would probably be rated higher if they had managed to look like they belonged with him. That type of shit is commonplace across both of their careers' though IMO.


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## charlie harper (May 18, 2013)

Mayweather.


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## alwaysdrunk (Mar 29, 2014)

Jones fought the best in there prime, something Floyd can not say.

Stupid poll, only retards would even consider voting for Floyd here.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Leftsmash said:


> You're right, Williams wasn't a draw and was considered a dark horse which was a damn shame but as mentioned but if you remember back in 2008, despite his revenge win over Quintana, it was start of a lot of questions being raised as to vulnerability to those that were mobile enough to outbox him and Quintana wasn't a great mover but pulled it off. If anything in 2008, the hype was riding on Cotto as the next opponent at the time of Williams win over Quintana despite Floyd already going on retirement at the end of 2007 so it's not quite correct in saying that Williams was next in position but both would find that year to be career changing.


I just wish he fought Cotto & Williams in their primes. Would've been really good scalps and it would definitely put Floyd's legacy higher IMO.


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## kf3 (Jul 17, 2012)

i voted floyd because i took the title as who was the better boxer, roy would still be ahead on my atg/resume list though.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Roy is better hands down, bump. 
@turbotime @Hands of Iron


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## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

While Reggie Johson and Mike McCallum were very good/great I think the versions that Jones fought at 168 were far from the best they showed at 160. 

That said Jones has the clearly stronger resume. Outside of Castillo and Corrales its either faded Oscar, Hatton/Marquez with no prior form at 147 or who? Canelo...?


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Hoshi said:


> While Reggie Johson and Mike McCallum were very good/great I think the versions that Jones fought at 168 were far from the best they showed at 160.
> 
> That said Jones has the clearly stronger resume. Outside of Castillo and Corrales its either faded Oscar, Hatton/Marquez with no prior form at 147 or who? Canelo...?


You can throw in past prime Sugar Shane in there also. Augustus, Manfredy, G. Hernandez, Judah, etc.


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

Roy's victory against Willie Williams last night may have secured my vote


:rofl:-(


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## Brickfists (Oct 17, 2012)

Probably a very unpopular opinion here but i just don't rate Jones nearly as highly as others do. I think he's incredibly overrated, a good level below Mayweather for sure.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Hoshi said:


> While Reggie Johson and Mike McCallum were very good/great I think the versions that Jones fought at 168 were far from the best they showed at 160.


:lol:

James Toney practically made Roy Jones. He's nothing without that win. Without Toney's skill, P4P standing and wins over Nunn and vastly superior versions of McCallum and Johnson. I see what you're saying Hoshi.


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## Casual Benson's Unknown (Jun 5, 2012)

Jones' has the much better list of wins, and going up to heavyweight and winning a belt there, as well as being the top dog at 160 and picking up a strap at 175 is more of an achievement than Mayweather's 5 division titles and unbeaten record

Jones was the slightly better fighter at his peak too imo

This isn't especially close

Y'all musta forgot


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## Hoshi (Aug 21, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> James Toney practically made Roy Jones. He's nothing without that win. Without Toney's skill, P4P standing and wins over Nunn and vastly superior versions of McCallum and Johnson. I see what you're saying Hoshi.


Now that you mention it... :smile


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Brickfists said:


> Probably a very unpopular opinion here but i just don't rate Jones nearly as highly as others do. I think he's incredibly overrated, a good level below Mayweather for sure.


overrated?

he convincingly won the wba heavyweight belt against a guy who drew 36 rounds with hall of fame evander holyfield

and even though toney was supposedly drained at the weight james was a better win than anything on floyds resume


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Brickfists said:


> Probably a very unpopular opinion here but i just don't rate Jones nearly as highly as others do. I think he's incredibly overrated, a good level below Mayweather for sure.


How on earth could he be a level below Mayweather, when Roy holds the greater singular wins in Toney & Hopkins, and has just as much depth in his win column as Floyd does?


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## Brickfists (Oct 17, 2012)

quincy k said:


> overrated?
> 
> he convincingly won the wba heavyweight belt against a guy who drew 36 rounds with hall of fame evander holyfield
> 
> and even though toney was supposedly drained at the weight james was a better win than anything on floyds resume





tommygun711 said:


> How on earth could he be a level below Mayweather, when Roy holds the greater singular wins in Toney & Hopkins, and has just as much depth in his win column as Floyd does?


I know, its a silly thing but i just find it almost impossible to properly rate him because the way i judge fighters is based on level of opposition and with Jones he was so much better than everybody he faced its hard to judge just how good they were. Was the 90's 160-168 era weak or was Jones just so fucking good he made it look weak ? I honestly don't know and can't get my head around it.

Like Hopkins was very green at the time and Toney had eaten himself out of the division by that time so its difficult to say how good those victories were which is the problem I have with all of Jones' career. Its clear he's atg who would probably beat anybody in history from 160-175 on any given night but even with that i find it nearly impossible to say just how great he was, the man is an enigma to me.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Brickfists said:


> I know, its a silly thing but i just find it almost impossible to properly rate him because the way i judge fighters is based on level of opposition and with Jones he was so much better than everybody he faced its hard to judge just how good they were. Was the 90's 160-168 era weak or was Jones just so fucking good he made it look weak ? I honestly don't know and can't get my head around it.
> 
> Like Hopkins was very green at the time and Toney had eaten himself out of the division by that time so its difficult to say how good those victories were which is the problem I have with all of Jones' career. Its clear he's atg who would probably beat anybody in history from 160-175 on any given night but even with that i find it nearly impossible to say just how great he was, the man is an enigma to me.


duplicate post


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Brickfists said:


> I know, its a silly thing but i just find it almost impossible to properly rate him because the way i judge fighters is based on level of opposition and with Jones he was so much better than everybody he faced its hard to judge just how good they were. Was the 90's 160-168 era weak or was Jones just so fucking good he made it look weak ? I honestly don't know and can't get my head around it.
> 
> Like Hopkins was very green at the time and Toney had eaten himself out of the division by that time so its difficult to say how good those victories were which is the problem I have with all of Jones' career. Its clear he's atg who would probably beat anybody in history from 160-175 on any given night but even with that i find it nearly impossible to say just how great he was, the man is an enigma to me.


i think a little of both. the division was weak and jones was that good.

the difference between jones and floyd is at 168-175, other than darius, roy fought everyone whereas at 147 and up floyd elected to go on vacations instead of making career-defining fights(sergio,pw,cotto,margo)

jones was so good that he was a 2-1 favorite over ruiz, essentially what holy was against ruiz in the rematch. forget ruiz 36 rounds with holy and his win over undefeated johnson his body of work after his loss to jones was impressive

what jones did would be essentially the same as floyd in 2012 going to 160 and challenging sturm, geale, ggg or chavez(sergio not included because he was the mw champ as was lennox the hw champ)


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

You can say Floyd is a ducker but I can bet money on it that Floyd was ducked more during his 130-140lbs days than he ducked people from 147 onwards.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Hoshi said:


> Now that you mention it... :smile












:-(


----------



## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

I thought this poll would run a lot closer, but Jones getting 2/3 of the votes.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

FloydPatterson said:


> Roy's victory against Willie Williams last night may have secured my vote
> 
> :rofl:-(


It would have been better had Roy lost. Winning will only encourage him to keep going and sadly I see it ending really ugly for Roy.


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

Debatable. Toney is not an ATG, though I personally love the dude and his style. Hops was more of the green side of his career and by far his legacy fights were made after he developed his craftiness, after he left his MW sham of a reign. With all that said, if Floyd beats Pac comfortably, my guess is he goes down as the greatest defensive fighter of the modern era. That defense is why he has longevity and forces everyone to throw less and connect less.


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

quincy k said:


> i think a little of both. the division was weak and jones was that good.
> 
> the difference between jones and floyd is at 168-175, other than darius, roy fought everyone whereas at 147 and up floyd elected to go on vacations instead of making career-defining fights(sergio,pw,cotto,margo)
> 
> ...


Jones's win over Ruiz is over probably the weakest HW in history. No one hugged for dear life more than Ruiz and Jones just had to pot shot him. Do you not think Floyd could go to 160 and fight Quillen and pot shot him to a win? No one wants to see that shit though. Roy likley used PEDs to gain his mass and stupidly tried to cut all that mass down and got knocked out, forever more becoming susceptible to KOs and truning into Roy Jones "porcelein chin" Jr.

Also, even though he was highly overrated, IMO, Calzaghe was a name that Roy never made any real effort to fight at 168. So let's not act like Roy wasn't selectively picking opponents also. Even the great SRL said he selectively picked Duran II at a time when he thought Duran would be at a disadvantage.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

a guy who drew 36 rounds with holyfield was the weakest hw in history? one of only three men to have ever knocked down evander?










whatever


----------



## Crean (May 19, 2013)

Mayweather.

RJJ was a drug cheat. I discredit a lot of his achievements.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> James Toney practically made Roy Jones. He's nothing without that win. Without Toney's skill, P4P standing and wins over Nunn and vastly superior versions of McCallum and Johnson. I see what you're saying Hoshi.


Noone is anyone without that type of win.Give in already


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> Jones's win over Ruiz is over probably the weakest HW in history. No one hugged for dear life more than Ruiz and Jones just had to pot shot him. Do you not think Floyd could go to 160 and fight Quillen and pot shot him to a win? No one wants to see that shit though. Roy likley used PEDs to gain his mass and stupidly tried to cut all that mass down and got knocked out, forever more becoming susceptible to KOs and truning into Roy Jones "porcelein chin" Jr.
> 
> Also, even though he was highly overrated, IMO, Calzaghe was a name that Roy never made any real effort to fight at 168. So let's not act like Roy wasn't selectively picking opponents also. Even the great SRL said he selectively picked Duran II at a time when he thought Duran would be at a disadvantage.


x2


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> Debatable. Toney is not an ATG, though I personally love the dude and his style. Hops was more of the green side of his career and by far his legacy fights were made after he developed his craftiness, after he left his MW sham of a reign. With all that said, if Floyd beats Pac comfortably, my guess is he goes down as the greatest defensive fighter of the modern era. That defense is why he has longevity and forces everyone to throw less and connect less.


x2. Some people on here think with their nuts. It is not even close in who is more impressive. Floyd haven't really fought a full fledge bum since his 13th pro fight. And after he won the title he fought countless named opponents while remaining undfeated and still dominating.

Jones fought so many cab drivers throughout his career. As soon as his physical gift slipped he came crashing. And people think having natural athletic abilities is more impressive than Floyd's athletic abilities plus great boxing skills?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Ask me May 3rd :hey


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Toney is Jones' greatest win and Toney is not even going to be ranked that high in the ATG ranking. JMM will go down as one of the greatest mexican boxers of all time and he got shutout by Floyd.

Ruiz should be jones' second best win and Zzzzz, he picked the easiest HW to steal a title. You got Floyd challenging guys coming off big wins while Jones picks on guys coming off the smallest wins.


And Bhop who was raw and crude is Jones' third best win.

Griffin, McCallum, and Woods doesn't scream out fame here.

vs

Henderaz, carlos henderaz, jesus chavez, corrales, castillo, gatti, judah, oscar, hatton, shane, jmm, cotto, guerruo, canelo, and now pac. 

No contest.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Toney is Jones' greatest win and Toney is not even going to be ranked that high in the ATG ranking. JMM will go down as one of the greatest mexican boxers of all time and he got shutout by Floyd.
> 
> Ruiz should be jones' second best win and Zzzzz, he picked the easiest HW to steal a title. You got Floyd challenging guys coming off big wins while Jones picks on guys coming off the smallest wins.
> 
> ...


Oh jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Toney is Jones' greatest win and Toney is not even going to be ranked that high in the ATG ranking. JMM will go down as one of the greatest mexican boxers of all time and he got shutout by Floyd.
> 
> Ruiz should be jones' second best win and Zzzzz, he picked the easiest HW to steal a title. You got Floyd challenging guys coming off big wins while Jones picks on guys coming off the smallest wins.
> 
> ...


You didn't even mention Virgill Hill FFS which is one of Jones' best wins, better than a lot of Floyd wins.. and you didnt mention undefeated glen kelley & Julio Cesar Gonzalez, Richard Hall, Malinga or Tarver...Missed


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Oh jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez.


LOL. Turbo you my boy man... is like a moth to a flame for me...


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> You didn't even mention Virgill Hill FFS which is one of Jones' best wins, better than a lot of Floyd wins.. and you didnt mention undefeated glen kelley & Julio Cesar Gonzalez, Richard Hall, Malinga or Tarver...Missed


oh excuse me, my bad!
Tarver and Hill got dropped by a vicious body shot yes yes. 
i'm not naming the other billy bobs. just like i didn't put angel manfreddy and baldomir or drunken master on floyds.

still dosen't surpass Floyd bottomline.
A few a fighters and a ton of b and c level fighters doesn't top floyd's A's and B's.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

And jones juices
and he got ktfo by a gentle grace punch by tarver
and beat by glen johnson
and slap to a pulp by joe cal.
and the aussie guy green

He was suppose to beat them out of prime. Floyd is out of prime and still dominating. how is this even a contest?


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Common sense should've kicked in when
A) look at where their careers are right now? You got Floyd sitting at the very top with everyone looking to take his spot. vs Jones fighting in Euro in some underground club.
B) 400+ million dollar career vs what 40 million dollar career?
C) Major titles vs pick up ANY title from ANY boxing organization.
D) How many fighters Floyd fought that is going to the HOF and ATG vs Jones?
E) Who look beatable Floyd or Jones? Anyone with a good punch can lay jonse the hell out.

Jones' resume doesn't scream out top 10 ATG fame like Floyd and is very reason why nobody put jones in the top 10 talk.

Jones is one of the most naturally talented boxers and i agree with that. Even more talented than Floyd but he is not more impressive. If he was/is then he would've be in Floyd's position RIGHT NOW.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Noone is anyone without that type of win.Give in already


I have. :lol:

I was translating what Hoshi actually meant. Robearto(e) would be flung clear out of the Top 30 without SRL. You don't get Top 10 for chasing Fernandez and Bizzarro around for 15 fucking rounds. Even though Vilomar beat Arguello :rofl What a fucking gift Alexis got against Jose Luis Ramirez too.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> oh excuse me, my bad!
> Tarver and Hill got dropped by a vicious body shot yes yes.
> i'm not naming the other billy bobs. just like i didn't put angel manfreddy and baldomir or drunken master on floyds.
> 
> ...


Word, now Undefeated Glen Kelley + Julio Cesar Gonzalez are billy bobs.. Truth be told they add depth to an already stellar resume.

Virgill Hill is better than most of the names on Floyd's resume.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Word, now Undefeated Glen Kelley + Julio Cesar Gonzalez are billy bobs.. Truth be told they add depth to an already stellar resume.
> 
> *Virgill Hill is better than most of the names on Floyd's resume*.


I highly doubt it. Most of jones opponents have very little fame. Hill got what 2-3 years of small fame?
Ring accomplishments vs Ring accomplishments. I haven't conduct detail research but i'm sure Hill falls short..


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Hill is a quasi-atg at 175
Top 18-25 lhw of all time.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

dyna said:


> Hill is a quasi-atg at 175
> Top 18-25 lhw of all time.


Indeed, he had a lot of defenses. ATG left jab. A really good technician too.



tliang1000 said:


> I highly doubt it. Most of jones opponents have very little fame. Hill got what 2-3 years of small fame?
> Ring accomplishments vs Ring accomplishments. I haven't conduct detail research but i'm sure Hill falls short..


We're not talking about fame here lol.

My personal opinion is, since Hill had two long reigns with quality and consistent performances, he probably ranks right around 15 in my top 20 LHWs.

Lets not forget about the work Hill did 1987-1998.. He was champ for a while.

Floyd doesn't have any wins over bonafide ATG top 20 welterweights, light middleweights, or lightweights.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Indeed, he had a lot of defenses. ATG left jab. A really good technician too.
> 
> We're not talking about fame here lol.
> 
> ...


You have gone full retard.


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## Slip (Jul 17, 2012)

Roy for me 

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> LOL. Turbo you my boy man... is like a moth to a flame for me...





Hands of Iron said:


> I have. :lol:
> 
> I was translating what Hoshi actually meant. Robearto(e) would be flung clear out of the Top 30 without SRL. You don't get Top 10 for chasing Fernandez and Bizzarro around for 15 fucking rounds. Even though Vilomar beat Arguello :rofl What a fucking gift Alexis got against Jose Luis Ramirez too.


ok good!


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Floyd doesn't have any wins over bonafide ATG top 20 welterweights, light middleweights, or lightweights.


Never thought about looking at it that way but it's an interesting lens, evaluating opponents as divisional ATG's.


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## PJ. (Jun 6, 2013)

Neither fought certain fighters or fighters at the right time.





Fl0m0s in 3,2...


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Never thought about looking at it that way but it's an interesting lens, evaluating opponents as divisional ATG's.


I'll admit that this kind of criteria is pretty harsh on certain ATGs. but when you got cocksuckers like @tliang1000 running around, regurgitating that TBE bullshit, then surely someone named TBE must have those kind of wins?

I mean, Ali has wins over Frazier, Foreman & Liston who are all basically top 10 heavyweights.

Roy beat Hopkins, Toney, and Virgill Hill who are all ATGs in their respective weight classes.

Floyd doesn't have these kinds of wins to me. He has a lot of very good wins, but no wins over divisional ATGs.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> I'll admit that this kind of criteria is pretty harsh on certain ATGs. but when you got cocksuckers like @tliang1000 running around, regurgitating that TBE bullshit, then surely someone named TBE must have those kind of wins?
> 
> I mean, Ali has wins over Frazier, Foreman & Liston who are all basically top 10 heavyweights.
> 
> ...


Oscar and Shane weren't prime but do you think they wouldn't make the top 20? Those are the only ones I can think of though.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> I'll admit that this kind of criteria is pretty harsh on certain ATGs. but when you got cocksuckers like @*tliang1000* running around, regurgitating that TBE bullshit, then surely someone named TBE must have those kind of wins?
> 
> I mean, Ali has wins over Frazier, Foreman & Liston who are all basically top 10 heavyweights.
> 
> ...


LOL yeah bc Corrales, Castillo, Shane, Oscar, JMM, Cotto wouldn't be considered. Bitch keep going into an area where it is hard to prove. That is your last defense. As vague as possible. ATG ranking bc some so and so said so.

Provide evidence, source and who the hell are ranking these individuals?

It is already hard enough to rank fighters in a opinion based ATG ranking and you want to do divisions LMAO.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

@tommygun

Compare using facts. Ring accomplishments, something concrete and solid. If you want to compare Hill vs Floyd's opponents, we can go there.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Oscar and Shane weren't prime but do you think they wouldn't make the top 20? Those are the only ones I can think of though.


I don't know if either of them rank on a top 20 welterweight list to be honest. They are both ATGs but were past prime when Floyd beat them.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

@tommygun711

If you truly believe in your statement, then lets debate about it. I know it wouldn't take much for me to find one of Floyd's opponents to easily surpass Hills. Just say you want the debate and we can start. I just want to make sure you don't run away and shift directions.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> I don't know if either of them rank on a top 20 welterweight list to be honest. They are both ATGs but were past prime when Floyd beat them.


LMAO, you are so stupid and full of shit man. holding on to your last desperate attempt to save face. 
Listen you DA. you can't have it both ways.... "they were both past prime" so they are DQed from top 20 WW of all time." While you and your friends give Jones full credit for green bhop. And if past prime fighters are dqed then DO FLOYD GET EXTRA CREDIT FOR BEATING PRIME GUYS WHEN HE IS OUT OF PRIME?

Do you see the bullshit you are coming up with?


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

I guess Floyd is immune to lose now bc whoever beats him now shouldn't count bc Floyd is "out of prime". So there you have it guys.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> LMAO, you are so stupid and full of shit man. holding on to your last desperate attempt to save face.
> Listen you DA. you can't have it both ways.... "they were both past prime" so they are DQed from top 20 WW of all time." While you and your friends give Jones full credit for green bhop. And if past prime fighters are dqed then DO FLOYD GET EXTRA CREDIT FOR BEATING PRIME GUYS WHEN HE IS OUT OF PRIME?
> 
> Do you see the bullshit you are coming up with?


ugh. relax. I'm not saving face because you arent fucking up anyone in a debate, ever.

I didn't say because they were past prime htey are dqed from a top 20 ww list, DLH and mosley both wouldn't be in a top 20 ww list anyway. they don't have the accomplishments.

RE "green hopkins": the fights that I saw with hopkins prior to the Jones fight shows me that Hopkins was still a very good fighter, even if he didn't develop into the fighter he would later become.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> ugh. relax. I'm not saving face because you arent fucking up anyone in a debate, ever.
> 
> I didn't say because they were past prime htey are dqed from a top 20 ww list, DLH and mosley both wouldn't be in a top 20 ww list anyway. they don't have the accomplishments.
> 
> RE "green hopkins": the fights that I saw with hopkins prior to the Jones fight shows me that Hopkins was still a very good fighter, even if he didn't develop into the fighter he would later become.


You know when i said you gone full retard and that is it, i have a feeling that you may feel like you've got something bc i didn't go into detail in your flawed argument but who knew that your buddy will ride that crappy argument with you and now i have to step in... sigh... i swear.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> You know when i said you gone full retard and that is it, i have a feeling that you may feel like you've got something bc i didn't go into detail in your flawed argument but who knew that your buddy will ride that crappy argument with you and now i have to step in... sigh... i swear.


ok


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> ugh. relax. I'm not saving face because you arent fucking up anyone in a debate, ever.
> 
> I didn't say because they were past prime htey are dqed from a top 20 ww list, DLH and mosley both wouldn't be in a top 20 ww list anyway. they don't have the accomplishments.
> 
> *RE "green hopkins": the fights that I saw with hopkins prior to the Jones fight shows me that Hopkins was still a very good fighter*, even if he didn't develop into the fighter he would later become.


Going into the jones fight he was fighting the likes of these.... of course he looks good. and on the flip side Hernadez was division champ figting dude with 50+ wins and few losses and you want to say he was finished. You guys want the cake and eat it and shit out the cake and eat it some more in every single angle of it.

 1993-02-16Gilbert Baptist*26*-*14*-*0*

McNichols Sports Arena, Denver, Colorado, USAWUD1212  referee: Steve Smoger | judge: Patricia Morse Jarman 117-110 | judge: Al DeVito 117-110 | judge: Jean Williams 115-112 
USBA middleweight title
 1992-12-04Wayne Powell*30*-*3*-*2*

Merv Griffin's Resorts, Atlantic City, New Jersey, USAWTKO112 time: 0:21 | referee: Rudy Battle | judge: Eugene Grant | judge: Frank Brunette | judge: Lynne Carter 
vacant USBA middleweight title
 1992-09-14Eric Rhinehart*12*-*14*-*1*

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USAWKO110 time: 1:47 | referee: John Carroll 
 1992-08-28James Stokes*13*-*4*-*0*

Trump Plaza Hotel, Atlantic City, New Jersey, USAWKO110 time: 1:44 | referee: Lindsey Page 
 1992-05-21Anibal Miranda*8*-*8*-*1*

Paris, Paris, FranceWPTS10101992-04-03Randy Smith*24*-*23*-*1*

Trump Plaza Hotel, Atlantic City, New Jersey, USAWUD1010 referee: Rudy Battle | judge: Jean Williams 100-90 | judge: Vincent Rainone 100-90 | judge: John Stewart 100-90 
 1992-01-31Dennis Milton*16*-*3*-*1*

Blue Horizon, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USAWTKO410 time: 3:00 | referee: Hurley McCall | judge: Mercedes Medina | judge: Tommy Reid | judge: Bill Nealon 
 1991-12-13Willie Kemp*13*-*7*-*0*

Convention Hall, Atlantic City, New Jersey, USAWUD10101991-11-26David McCluskey*10*-*22*-*2*

Blue Horizon, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USAWTKO710


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

stop quoting me with boxrec plz


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> stop quoting me with boxrec plz


Why? so you can let your bullshit fly? You can fool the gullible posters but you are not fooling me.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Why? so you can let your bullshit fly? You can fool the gullible posters but you are not fooling me.


The gullible posters disagree with you :rofl


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> The gullible posters disagree with you :rofl


Just proves my point. most people dksab. Just go to youtube and other boxing forums and see for yourself what type of quality knowledge they are talking about.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Oscar and Shane weren't prime but do you think they wouldn't make the top 20? Those are the only ones I can think of though.


Oscar and Mosley could make it - more on a H2H basis.

But not at the weights Floyd faced them.


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## techks (Jun 4, 2013)

I love Roy him and Tyson are the reason I even got into boxing but if he beats Pacquiao I have no problem with him being considered greater. Primes no one will match Roy after him but I do respect the guys still hanging in their like Hops, JMM, Floyd, Pacquaio, and Wlad.


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## Dillyyo (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> I don't know if either of them rank on a top 20 welterweight list to be honest. They are both ATGs but were past prime when Floyd beat them.


I sometimes take issues with these "prime" arguments. What prime are we talking about? Surely when Floyd was at 135-140 he was at a physical prime, but I would bet his mental prime was later on. Hops was in his physical prime when he was in his 20's, but his mental prime surely came in the latter half of his career and what was really what propelled him up the ATG ladder.


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## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

Does my heart good to see Roy Jr. running away with the vote.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Dillyyo said:


> I sometimes take issues with these "prime" arguments. What prime are we talking about? Surely when Floyd was at 135-140 he was at a physical prime, but I would bet his mental prime was later on. Hops was in his physical prime when he was in his 20's, but his mental prime surely came in the latter half of his career and what was really what propelled him up the ATG ladder.


Did you see the context of the argument? we were talking about how De La Hoya & Mosley weren't prime when Floyd beat them. This is true.


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## nezy37 (May 18, 2013)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> Because his skills relied upon his gifts almost entirely. Mayweather has built up a repertoire that allows him to do what he does longer and allows him to adjust when something is bothering him. Jones was so gifted that he never really had to adjust in his career. By time he needed to adjust to his opponent, he wasn't able to as he had his one style.
> 
> Look. There isn't a "wrong" answer here for me. They both have a great body of work and did things in the ring that absolutely break the hearts of people who think they could ever box professionally. If you were signing people to a boxing stable, you couldn't possibly go wrong with either.
> 
> I see exactly where you're coming from. My opinion differs for my own reasons on how I see it. It isn't like I'm putting Mayweather way over Jones or anything. Had to pick one, so I did and explained my reasoning.


That shouldn't matter. it allows floyd to fight at a higher level longer but at this point he isn't better. That said his style and work ethic could allow him to theoretically fight as long as hopkins and to accumulate more wins, depending upon who he could overtake Jones but he isn't there yet


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## aliwasthegreatest (Jul 29, 2012)

nezy37 said:


> That shouldn't matter. it allows floyd to fight at a higher level longer but at this point he isn't better. That said his style and work ethic could allow him to theoretically fight as long as hopkins and to accumulate more wins, depending upon who he could overtake Jones but he isn't there yet


Dude. Don't drag up posts this old. A fuck more could not possibly be given over this for me.


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## nezy37 (May 18, 2013)

aliwasthegreatest said:


> Dude. Don't drag up posts this old. A fuck more could not possibly be given over this for me.


Didn't look At the date.

Little sensitive eh?


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Pretty close.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Oscar and Mosley are not top 20 in any division they fought in. More P4P talents.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Oscar and Mosley are not top 20 in any division they fought in. More P4P talents.


maybe in a h2h sense ,but otherwise i don't think so either.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Oscar and Mosley are not top 20 in any division they fought in. More P4P talents.


You sure Oscar can't be put in the top 20 at welterweight?
And Mosley can sneak in the top 25 at 135


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

dyna said:


> You sure Oscar can't be put in the top 20 at welterweight?
> And Mosley can sneak in the top 25 at 135


Yeah, Oscar could be a top 20 welter.

Mosley is the most overrated lightweight ever. I wouldn't even have him top 50.


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## NoMas (Jun 7, 2012)

Jones was awesome in his prime, but he still he had that 'he dodged people and didnt fight them in their prime' tag to..

I wish Jones called it a day near his peak or as he was dipping, then the teenagers and early 20 year olds would still be calling him a great, they barely know of his achievements now...


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Mosley is the most overrated lightweight ever. I wouldn't even have him top 50.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


>


You know it makes sense.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> You know it makes sense.


None at all.

H2H matters always.

And you know it.

Now edit your post and apologise to Mosley immediately.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Yeah, Oscar could be a top 20 welter.
> 
> Mosley is the most overrated lightweight ever.* I wouldn't even have him top 50.*


I guess his resume at 135 is dire.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> None at all.
> 
> H2H matters always.
> 
> ...


Just shake your head and move on. You got people on here who think that their opinions are facts. Not even top 50? I bet you anything that they can't list 50 boxers in Lightweight that surpasses Mosley's ring accomplishments/resume. Dude was unbeaten in Lightweight and considered p4p no1 for years but yeah... not even top 50.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Did you see the context of the argument? we were talking about how De La Hoya & Mosley weren't prime when Floyd beat them. This is true.


Who cares if they weren't prime. Do Floyd get extra credit for beating a primed Canelo? Ortiz? when he is old as hell now? Floyd has done it all, no matter how his haters spin it he has done it all. He defeated prime guys, experienced guys, undefeated guys, p4p guys, beating guys in an advanced age, remained undefeated, remained dominant after 20 years. Shit that jones failed to do.

Anyone with an unbias agenda knows that Floyd is way more impressive.
What is impressive about Jones?
The fact that he used PED in his prime?
The fact that he can't take a hit to the chin worth a shit?
The fact that he have no heart, as soon as he gets hit by a hard punch, he folds.
The fact that he is more naturally gifted over all of his opponents and still managed to get beat?

Floyd is opposite of everything i listed above.
Floyd is 38 and champion in two weight classes and fighting dudes 10+ years younger/15lbs heavier. Able to modify his style according to his age and still train like he is a hungry prospect.

Floyd > Jones in damn near every aspect. overcomes his size disadvantages and have the mental strength to overcome his opponents for 20 years str8.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Who cares if they weren't prime. Do Floyd get extra credit for beating a primed Canelo? Ortiz? when he is old as hell now? Floyd has done it all, no matter how his haters spin it he has done it all. He defeated prime guys, experienced guys, undefeated guys, p4p guys, beating guys in an advanced age, remained undefeated, remained dominant after 20 years. Shit that jones failed to do.


I understand your point of view, I wish you'd quit quoting me because it's obvious we aren't gonna agree.

I don't think Ortiz is that great of a win. Canelo obviously is very impressive coupled with Floyd's age and Canelo's status.. although I think the catchweight takes something away from that win. don't tag me as a hater please :lol: me thinking RJJ is superior is not hating.. And yes, we all know Floyd has had great longevity, that's one of his greatest qualities of his career.



> What is impressive about Jones?
> The fact that he used PED in his prime?
> The fact that he can't take a hit to the chin worth a shit?
> The fact that he have no heart, as soon as he gets hit by a hard punch, he folds.
> The fact that he is more naturally gifted over all of his opponents and still managed to get beat?


Safe to say you're selling RJJ short here, but he didn't really have a glass jaw... His knockout losses happened after he moved down from HW, which was a bad move. Safe to say that weight drain damaged him. He was getting up there in age by the time Tarver & Johnson got to him - but it's obvious that Floyd has the edge in longevity. that alone isn't enough for me to say that he's better than Roy, I believe Roy faced the better opponents which I know you will disagree with.



> Floyd > Jones in damn near every aspect.


Yeah, fuck punching power, top wins, resume, or excitement. Fuck all that! TBE!!


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Canelo win is really not that impressive when you factor in styles.
like a plodding counter puncher would ever beat Floyd.


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## gyllespie (Jun 17, 2013)

Hard to say, you can't go wrong with either guy. But as far as I'm concened I like Floyd's resiliency and ability to adapt. Whenever he faced adversity he has always found a way to overcome it and win whereas once a guy has Roy hurt, the fight's pretty much over. In terms of God given talent, it's Roy hands down. But in terms of winning (not necessarily dominating) wars consistently, I'd have to choose Floyd. If he retires undefeated his resume will age very nicely especially if Canelo becomes an ATG. Won't be surprised to see majority of real boxing fans picking Floyd over Roy 10-20 yrs from now.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Just shake your head and move on. You got people on here who think that their opinions are facts. Not even top 50? I bet you anything that they can't list 50 boxers in Lightweight that surpasses Mosley's ring accomplishments/resume. Dude was unbeaten in Lightweight and considered p4p no1 for years but yeah... not even top 50.


Lester actually agrees with me and is just winding me up. You're just too retarded to realise.

You couldn't name 50 lightweights without Wikipedia...so there is that.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Lester actually agrees with me and is just winding me up. You're just too retarded to realise.
> 
> You couldn't name 50 lightweights without Wikipedia...so there is that.


So you're ranking Leonard and Gans ahead of Duran @135?
Carlos Ortiz, hello?

If Mosley can't be in the top 50 with his resume, then Duran can't be at #1 :bart


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

dyna said:


> So you're ranking Leonard and Gans ahead of Duran @135?
> Carlos Ortiz, hello?
> 
> If Mosley can't be in the top 50 with his resume, then Duran can't be at #1 :bart


Yes, yes, and yes. Although Ortiz's isn't far superior to Duran's, they are in my top 4 (Ike rounds out the top five, Duran could be anywhere between 3 and 5)

Also, Canzoneri>Whitaker


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

http://imgur.com/height%3D276%3Bid%3DdkADuyL%3Btype%3Dgifv%3Bwidth%3D478




http://imgur.com/height%3D320%3Bid%3DHaN0aX2%3Btype%3Dgifv%3Bwidth%3D433


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

RJJJ was a beast


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Head to head? Jones without a doubt


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## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

I liked Jones more because he was flashier.

One amazing thing about Jones that Mayweather nor any one else seemed to be able to duplicate is the number of guys he beat winning every single round on every judges cards, He did it four fights in a row and 11 total. 
Here's the fights he won every round by every official:

Fermin Chirino 12- 7- 2
Tony Thornton 37- 6- 1
Eric Lucas 19- 2 -2
Bryant Brannon 16- 0 -0
Mike McCallum 49- 3- 1
Richard Frazier 18- 3- 1
Reggie Johnson 39- 5- 1
David Telesco 23- 2- 0
Richard Hall 24- 1- 0
Derrick Harmon 20- 1- 0
Glen Kelly 28- 0- 1


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## ChampionsForever (Jun 5, 2013)

Mayweather is greater. Jones in his prime is almost mythical though. Throughout history there are a fair few welterweights that I'd pick to beat Floyd, I can't think of any supermiddles or light heavyweights that I'd pick over a prime Jones.


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## rossco (Jun 9, 2013)

ChampionsForever said:


> Mayweather is greater. Jones in his prime is almost mythical though. Throughout history there are a fair few welterweights that I'd pick to beat Floyd, I can't think of any supermiddles or light heavyweights that I'd pick over a prime Jones.


Jack Dempsey would crush Roid Jones.
Gene Tunney Schools him.
Harry Greb overwhelms him.

#OldSchoolWhiteBoyzBitch.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

rossco said:


> Harry Greb overwhelms him.
> 
> #OldSchoolWhiteBoyzBitch.


How many of the fighters he lost to were even better than Sven Ottke?


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> The fact that he is more naturally gifted over all of his opponents and still managed to get beat?


:rofl:rofl:rofl
Taking the fact that RJJ was an athletic freak and still finding some way to make a negative of it, that's some mental gymnastics there


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## rossco (Jun 9, 2013)

dyna said:


> How many of the fighters he lost to were even better than Sven Ottke?


Joe Chips.


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

Gonna have to go with Roy. Mayweather may have more good wins, but Jones' has those two great wins that overshadow anything Mayweather did, and has enough very good and good wins to keep just ahead of Mayweather


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

ChampionsForever said:


> Mayweather is greater. Jones in his prime is almost mythical though. Throughout history there are a fair few welterweights that I'd pick to beat Floyd, I can't think of any supermiddles or light heavyweights that I'd pick over a prime Jones.


I think both guys lack the great fights. I like Jones more because of his power and dominance. Floyd handpicked more throughout his career to protect the undefeated record.


----------

