# Why Floyd is TBE



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Fab4 seemed larger than life bc boxing was more popular and they were greats from the past. They were all popular and received more credit due to their hype. In reality they were each other's rivals... if they don't fight each other then who the hell are they going to fight? Just like Floyd had rivals and he fought them. The difference is because he made it look easy and had a clear separation while the fab4 didn't have it as define. Perhap the fact is bc Floyd is just simply better. Floyd displayed a unbeatable aura and his skills were delivered with flawless execution defensively and offensively. Able to fight in every range and overcome every situation and adjusts well. People throwing his name out there as the best or one of the best for a reason. Anyone who doesn't see that are the ones who dksab with their endless excuses. Bozos


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

If anyone benefits from hype it's Floyd.

And neither of the Fabulous 4 are 'TBE' either.

Kill yourself.


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Youre comparing Floyds rivals to the Fab 4s fights with eachother and saying Floyds better cause he dispatched his "rivals" easier and therefor cause it wasnt as close as with the Fab 4 it makes us underrate Floyds opponents.. and that his opponents are on the level of the Fab 4 and Floyds just that much better than the Fab 4 and thats why he took out his opponents who are on the same level as Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Duran easier than they could deal with eachother...

Do you see how stupid that is? Can you not see that Floyds opponents are not as good as the Fab 4 (and nobody other than you thinks they are) and thats why hes dispatching guys, rather than them being as good as the Fab 4 and Floyd just being much better than the Fab 4... Only you can distort it that much and see it that way. _And then say that other people dont know shit about boxing_

God your rankings must be fucked up. Highest criteria, Floyds opponents/ whatever needs to be done to make Floyd look better.

Youve just elevated Floyds rivals to the level of SRL, Duran, Hagler and Hearns... I mean, no words. 
How can you even compare Floyds opponents to the Fab 4 and justify it to yourself.

The difference is the Fab 4 was between Duran, Top 3 Lightweight (Arguably no.1), Leonard (Top 3 Welterweight), Hearns (Top 10 welterweight), Hagler (top 3 Middleweight).

Thats the difference not that the Fab 4 were hype. The fact that your saying what you did there means youve bought into Floyds hype way too much and its distorting your opinions on other eras. (And obviously dont know what your talking about with Hagler, Hearns, Duran and Leonard, or anything else)

I wish people could be banned for stupidity


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

I hope one day floyd will fulfill tliang's dreams and accept him into his harem.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Wow...this from a poster obsessed with pactards.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Come on man, CHB isn't the place for this type of shit


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Anyone with eyes can see that Guerrero's stiffness and bog-standard plodding movement is more of a skill than Duran's feints, defence, angles and all-round offensive ability.

Clearly Canelo's slip and counter game is more pleasing on the eye than Benitez's. Let alone more technical!

And Corrales was the lanky banger that Hearns wishes he could be. 

As for Ray Leonard, is his shoulder roll better than Floyds? 'Nuff said. 

And Hagler? Well his undefeated streak barely got into double figures compared to Floyd Joy Sinclair.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

you're on your own on this one :lol:


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> you're on your own on this one :lol:


Do you think he's top ten of all time though?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Do you think he's top ten of all time though?


naw, boxing has a very deep history of great fighters. It's not an insult to say he's not in the top 10, but more of a compliment to the fighters that are in there like SRR, Ali, Duran, Armstrong, Greb, etc


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> naw, boxing has a very deep history of great fighters. It's not an insult to say he's not in the top 10, but more of a compliment to the fighters that are in there like SRR, Ali, Duran, Armstrong, Greb, etc


Very fair :good


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## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

I won't say he's TBE, but he is in the top 15-25. Boxing may have been on network television and more "popular" back then, but the participation rate has been growing since then. The number of bouts held per year only continues to grow every year. 

The eye test is way too subjective and unreliable; being at the top for several years, with a decently strong and growing competitive environment is only a plus for overall achievement. Don't forget modern boxing is really barely over a century old. To be at the championship level for at least an entire decade (1/10th of the entire history) must count for something


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)




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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

Floyd is ONE of the best ever to say who's exactly the bets is pure speculation but one thing for sure the Big 4 fought better opposition just because they fought each other.
Also h2h both Duran and hearns are horrible matchups for Floyd. Tbh I think Floyd matches up well with Hagler even though there's the size thing and Hagler would still be the best opponent Floyd has ever fought and maybe he has a chance vs Leonard even though I wouldn't favour him


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Fab4 seemed larger than life bc boxing was more popular and they were greats from the past. They were all popular and received more credit due to their hype. In reality they were each other's rivals... if they don't fight each other then who the hell are they going to fight? Just like Floyd had rivals and he fought them. The difference is because he made it look easy and had a clear separation while the fab4 didn't have it as define. Perhap the fact is bc Floyd is just simply better. Floyd displayed a unbeatable aura and his skills were delivered with flawless execution defensively and offensively. Able to fight in every range and overcome every situation and adjusts well. People throwing his name out there as the best or one of the best for a reason. Anyone who doesn't see that are the ones who dksab with their endless excuses. Bozos


The fab4 didn't need each other.
They all had great careers without each other.

Duran had his lightweight career and later he fucked Barkley raw.
Leonard had an ATG welterweight career even without the fab4.
Hearns is more of a h2h monster at welter, because his resume was relatively thin but he still got Hill when past prime a lot above his 154 prime.
Benitez didn't even need to train to be great.
The FAB4.

Floyd doesn't have much names that really stand out.
De La Hoya even at his best wasn't Leonard
Mosley wasn't as good as Duran either.
Marquez and Canelo were made for Floyd.


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

@Bogotazo


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

megavolt said:


> I won't say he's TBE, but he is in the top 15-25. Boxing may have been on network television and more "popular" back then, but the participation rate has been growing since then. The number of bouts held per year only continues to grow every year.
> 
> The eye test is way too subjective and unreliable; being at the top for several years, with a decently strong and growing competitive environment is only a plus for overall achievement. Don't forget modern boxing is really barely over a century old. To be at the championship level for at least an entire decade (1/10th of the entire history) must count for something


Participation rates are growing, and Floyd has fought less than 50 times in 18 years. What's your point?

The eye test is unreliable. So we should say that Floyd's opponents are just as good even though they're clearly not?

Being at championship level for ten years--is that really more impressive than fitting in more fights against better opposition in a smaller timespan? Could that be why he has so much longevity at 'championship level'?

I think 15-25 is ludicrous. 25-35 is more reasonable, but if you actually scrutinise the achievements that look mind-blowing I think they start to fall about (just a little bit) especially as the most important gauge of a fighters abilities/worth is 'Who did he beat him' and 'how did he beat them'?


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## Wig (Jan 26, 2014)

Floyd TBE at 130.

In megadolt's world though, he's too tall for that division so his resume there doesn't count.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

PivotPunch said:


> Floyd is ONE of the best ever to say who's exactly the bets is pure speculation but one thing for sure the Big 4 fought better opposition just because they fought each other.
> Also h2h both Duran and hearns are horrible matchups for Floyd. Tbh I think Floyd matches up well with Hagler even though there's the size thing and Hagler would still be the best opponent Floyd has ever fought and maybe he has a chance vs Leonard even though I wouldn't favour him


The fab 4 beat better fighters outside of each other too. Canelo ain't no better than Kalule, Corrales ain't no better than Cuevas, Marquez ain't no better than Buchanan, De La Hoya at that stage ain't no better than Hill, Castillo ain't no better than De Jesus.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Wig said:


> Floyd TBE at 130.
> 
> In megadolt's world though, he's too tall for that division so his resume there doesn't count.


Arguello was taller. Arguello was greater. Floyd was _better._

Depends what your criteria is really.


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


>


:lol: best sig


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## Wig (Jan 26, 2014)

Flea Man said:


> Arguello was taller. Arguello was greater. Floyd was _better._
> 
> Depends what your criteria is really.


Depends how much you subscribe to the batshit theory that boxing should be separated by height divisions. I don't at all.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Wig said:


> Depends how much you subscribe to the batshit theory that boxing should be separated by height divisions. I don't at all.


I don't either. I'm just saying, if Floyd's 130lb reign can be discredited, then Arguello was taller.

It's ludicrous anyway. Who said that?


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> I don't either. I'm just saying, if Floyd's 130lb reign can be discredited, then Arguello was taller.
> It's ludicrous anyway. Who said that?


Enough people think that being taller / having more reach is the magical key to success.
As if every 6'1 140 pounder will be the new Hearns.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

dyna said:


> Enough people think that being taller / having more reach is the magical key to success.
> As if every 6'1 140 pounder will be the new Hearns.


Enough people are spackers.


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

I also love how this is his thread and reasons for Floyd being the best ever and he used a group of only 4 boxers (who no one really views as the best ever either) to make his point. Does he not know what the "Ever" in ""TBE" means


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Theron said:


> I also love how this is his thread and reasons for Floyd being the best ever and he used a group of only 4 boxers (who no one really views as the best ever either) to make his point. Does he not know what the "Ever" in ""TBE" means


Packey McFarland undefeated in 90, numerous ATG's over a number of weights.

TBE :deal


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Theron said:


> I also love how this is his thread and reasons for Floyd being the best ever and he used a group of only 4 boxers (who no one really views as the best ever either) to make his point. Does he not know what the "Ever" in ""TBE" means


I think it's funnier that he's acting like their careers consisted of just fighting each other.


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## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Participation rates are growing, and Floyd has fought less than 50 times in 18 years. What's your point?


 Well it follows that the more bouts are held, those who end up at the top are stronger. Floyd may have some inactivity but he's also beaten fighters who were at the top. 


Flea Man said:


> The eye test is unreliable. So we should say that Floyd's opponents are just as good even though they're clearly not?


That's quite a jump in logic; the point I was making there is an observation based off of the fact that there's more bouts held these days, and numbers are more objective than "he hits fast" or "he's a high quality opponent" when that introduces far more variables while not being easily measurable. Tyson looked great, but when tested he ended up not being too great.


Flea Man said:


> Being at championship level for ten years--is that really more impressive than fitting in more fights against better opposition in a smaller timespan? Could that be why he has so much longevity at 'championship level'?


Fair point, but kind of ties in with the line of reasoning in how one judges the quality of opponents


Flea Man said:


> I think 15-25 is ludicrous. 25-35 is more reasonable, but if you actually scrutinise the achievements that look mind-blowing I think they start to fall about (just a little bit) especially as the most important gauge of a fighters abilities/worth is 'Who did he beat him' and 'how did he beat them'?


Both him and Pacquiao are inside the top 30. 15-20 is much more optimistic of an estimate. Depends on May 2


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## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

Wig said:


> Floyd TBE at 130.
> 
> In megadolt's world though, he's too tall for that division so his resume there doesn't count.


Why are you following me you fucking down syndrome bitch. I owned your ass in the other thread and all you can do is repeat yourself and chase me like a whipped hoe


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Packey McFarland undefeated in 90, numerous ATG's over a number of weights.
> 
> TBE :deal


https://books.google.nl/books?id=i-...page&q=Dusty Miller Packey McFarland&f=false

He's been beaten by 2.
Dusty Miller and Patsy O'Brien.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Hes around 30-40 currently imo which tbf is a really great standing in a history so wide with thousands of great fighters.

Ultimately unless things change drastically in the future no modern boxer will really challenge the top ten. These days boxers dont fight as often, the dont fight the harder fights as regular, the talent pool is lesser, boxers are training more through technology and for certain standards of conditioning than actual skillsets so the overall talent is lesser than it was.


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Packey McFarland undefeated in 90, numerous ATG's over a number of weights.
> 
> TBE :deal


In that SRL thread McFarland was one of the guys I asked for him to tell me why Floyd was better, still waiting for his response... :lol: (I feel like im gonna be waiting for a while tbh)


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

megavolt said:


> Well it follows that the more bouts are held, those who end up at the top are stronger. Floyd may have some inactivity but he's also beaten fighters who were at the top.
> That's quite a jump in logic; the point I was making there is an observation based off of the fact that there's more bouts held these days, and numbers are more objective than "he hits fast" or "he's a high quality opponent" when that introduces far more variables while not being easily measurable. Tyson looked great, but when tested he ended up not being too great.
> Fair point, but kind of ties in with the line of reasoning in how one judges the quality of opponents
> 
> Both him and Pacquiao are inside the top 30. 15-20 is much more optimistic of an estimate. Depends on May 2


So who else is in the top 30? Assuming you're confident that Pac and Floyd are this high, I assume you've done your research and are qualified to make such a comparison.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

dyna said:


> https://books.google.nl/books?id=i-...page&q=Dusty Miller Packey McFarland&f=false
> 
> He's been beaten by 2.
> Dusty Miller and Patsy O'Brien.


Not true. That book is completely incorrect.

Miller was an opportunist,

'Precise date, location and type of decision (L-KO5 in most versions of McFarland's record) are unknown at present.
It is likely that this is actually the 1903-11-16 bout where Dusty defeated Eddie McFarland by disqualification.
"It has been generally supposed that Packie McFarland is an unbeaten wonder. This sentiment was broken recently when Dusty Miller came forward with the proof that McFarland fought him six rounds before the Watita club in Chicago some four years ago and Miller won an easy decision." (Colorado Springs Gazette, 1908-06-21)'

There is no record of the Patsy O'Brien fight. That is a pie-in-the-sky notion!

McFarland is actually undefeated in over 100 bouts. 75 official, and even the British press said the Welsh draw was a joke.


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## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Smh


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> He's been beaten by 2.
> Dusty Miller and Patsy O'Brien.


I wouldn't trust that.

Senya13 is the most knowledgeable guy out there on Packey who also was an editor for boxrec and even he couldn't find solid proof of McFarland's lone loss.

And I've never heard anyone mention the second loss.
This sounds more like a mistake to me.



Flea Man said:


> There is no record of the Patsy O'Brien fight. That is a pie-in-the-sky notion!


Probably a confusion



Senya13 said:


> Chicago Tribune:
> "Dusty" Miller was given a decision over Eddie McFarland on a foul
> 
> wire:
> "Dusty" Miller got the decision over *Patsy* McFarland in the fifth round on a foul, the latter throwing Miller to the floor.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Theron said:


> In that SRL thread McFarland was one of the guys I asked for him to tell me why Floyd was better, still waiting for his response... :lol: (I feel like im gonna be waiting for a while tbh)


Floyd IS the TBE...in terms of the fighters Tliang has heard of or has half a clue about.

Of which there are about three.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> I wouldn't trust that.
> 
> Senya13 is the most knowledgeable guy out there on Packey who also was an editor for boxrec and even he couldn't find solid proof of McFarland's lone loss.
> 
> ...


Exactly.

Yet Packey has multiple wins over a top 5 welter, an arguable top 10 lightweight, and many high class contenders.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

And the opinion of McFarland at the time was as exactly as gushing as the press are now about Floyd.

Without the haters.

He was peerless.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> And the opinion of McFarland at the time was as exactly as gushing as the press are now about Floyd.
> Without the haters.He was peerless.


Packey was more of a predecessor to Robinson, Greb and Armstrong - a contender to the mythical P4P#1 throne - not *just* another great top 50 or whatever fighter like Floyd.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Packey was more of a predecessor to Robinson, Greb and Armstrong - a contender to the mythical P4P#1 throne - not *just* another great top 50 or whatever fighter like Floyd.


Exactly.


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## Bernard Black (Mar 7, 2015)

@Bogotazo what do you think about a tliang 'king of flomos' mega thread?


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Bernard Black said:


> @*Bogotazo* what do you think about a tliang 'king of flomos' mega thread?


'King of Spastics' more like.

Let's see him sing 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' while we mull over the thread title.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Thanks for clearing that up on McFarland.
Now I'm on the TBE boat.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> Now I'm on the TBE boat.


Jump on the "Robinson is not a top10 - in fact, he ain't shit" boat.

@Powerpuncher is already there.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Lester1583 said:


> Jump on the "Robinson is not a top10 - in fact, he ain't shit" boat.
> 
> @Powerpuncher is already there.


Boo! Hiss!


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Jump on the "Robinson is not a top10 - in fact, he ain't shit" boat.
> 
> @Powerpuncher is already there.


http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...r-de-la-Hoya-more-man-than-Sugar-Ray-Robinson


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...r-de-la-Hoya-more-man-than-Sugar-Ray-Robinson


You're a good boy, Dyna.


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## Kid Generic Alias (Oct 29, 2013)

Tliang, not content with getting smacked around in one thread, extends his humiliation to newly created threads.

Don't tell me this guy doesn't pay some slut to kick him in the balls and stub cigarettes out on him for kicks.


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## Twelvey (Jun 6, 2012)

This is ban worthy imo.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

12downfor10 said:


> This is ban worthy imo.


Not really. Spurred us on to talk about Packey McFarland. So in a strange way it's served a genuine historic purpose.


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## knowimuch (May 9, 2014)

Of the Fab 4 no one is the greatest ever, the only reason they get mentioned a lot is because they would beat Floyd (although to be fair it depends on which version of Duran shows up). 

But alright for discussion sake what makes Floyd better then say Ali? Because I don't see it, let alone other greats as Armstrong, SRR, Boston Tom etc.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Boo! Hiss!


Ezz
Gans
Packey
Langford
Greb
Corkscrew Puncher
St. Paul Phantom
Armstrong
Thong master Fitz
Gaylor Barnes
And the entire Murderer's row

Robinson doesn't even make it top 30.


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## knowimuch (May 9, 2014)

dyna said:


> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...r-de-la-Hoya-more-man-than-Sugar-Ray-Robinson


:rofl

I'm convinced Oscar is TBE and also TPE (prettiest ever)


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

knowimuch said:


> Of the Fab 4 no one is the greatest ever, the only reason they get mentioned a lot is because they would beat Floyd (although to be fair it depends on which version of Duran shows up).
> 
> But alright for discussion sake what makes Floyd better then say Ali? Because I don't see it, let alone other greats as Armstrong, SRR, Boston Tom etc.


I'll answer that for you,

1) Liston was 70 years old and the fights were fixed
2) Frazier beat him, Ali hugged his way to a win in the second fight and Joe was blind/Ali was ready to quit in Manila
3) Foreman was stressed out at the fight being put back
4) Spinks was a rubbish novice who beat Ali
5) Cooper was robbed against Ali and Ali only won the rematch because of 'Enry's thin skin
6) Jimmy Young wuz robbed

There you go.


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## Wig (Jan 26, 2014)

Flea Man said:


> I don't either. I'm just saying, if Floyd's 130lb reign can be discredited, then Arguello was taller.
> 
> It's ludicrous anyway. Who said that?


Mega volt trying to argue tommy hearns not a welter as too tall. Never fails to amaze me how often th is line gets trotted out on here. Fighter a is taller than fighter b. Fighter b has always fought in a higher weight division. Retard logic concludes that fighter a is the bigger man. No he's the taller man and boxing has weig ht divisions not height.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Wig said:


> Mega volt trying to argue tommy hearns not a welter as too tall. Never fails to amaze me how often th is line gets trotted out on here. Fighter a is taller than fighter b. Fighter b has always fought in a higher weight division. Retard logic concludes that fighter a is the bigger man. No he's the taller man and boxing has weig ht divisions not height.


Hearns made weight on the day. He was definitely a welter, though that wasn't his best weight.


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## knowimuch (May 9, 2014)

Flea Man said:


> I'll answer that for you,
> 
> 1) Liston was 70 years old and the fights were fixed
> 2) Frazier beat him, Ali hugged his way to a win in the second fight and Joe was blind/Ali was ready to quit in Manila
> ...


I'm dissapointed you didn't mention Doug Jones and the lose ropes in Zaire


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Hearns made weight on the day. He was definitely a welter, though that wasn't his best weight.


It was though.

Those freakish physical dimensions can't be replaced by weak clinching.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Alexis Arguello was clearly a heavyweight boiled down to 126.
Marciano was as tall with less reach and with modern nutrition he would be like 220 pounds because that was his walk around weight, pic related.









And Floyd would beat Arguello, so Floyd beating Marciano (the only unbeaten heavyweight besides Joe Mesi) is certain.
And Mesi almost got killed by Jirov and James Toney is a poor mans Broner (judging by their bank accounts) so Floyd>James>Jirov>Mesi>Marciano


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

knowimuch said:


> I'm dissapointed you didn't mention Doug Jones and the lose ropes in Zaire


Well there you go.

7) Natural light heavyweight Doug Jones was robbed against Ali
8) The ropes were loose to suit Ali against Foreman. Without them he'd have been destroyed
9) Dropped by club fighter Wepner
10) Pre-exile title defences against awful opposition

The 10-step guide to why Ali isn't even an ATG


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> I'll answer that for you,
> 
> 1) Liston was 70 years old and the fights were fixed
> 2) Frazier beat him, Ali hugged his way to a win in the second fight and Joe was blind/Ali was ready to quit in Manila
> ...


Jimmy Young I can agree with, Ali at moments looked clueless in there. :conf


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tezel8764 said:


> Jimmy Young I can agree with, Ali at moments looked clueless in there. :conf


Yeah, but in using it as a point to discredit an ATG it's ludicrous.


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## knowimuch (May 9, 2014)

Floyd just lacks at the pyramid of boxing greatness:

- To much fight footage, only great fighters have 20 second clips and obscure training footage
- No newspaper decisions, every great fighter has at least 10
- Fought no one with a job for a nickname i.e. fireman
- He does has a J in his middlename but for it to really count you must have a J in you're surname or first name


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## Leftsmash (Oct 22, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Well there you go.
> 
> 7) Natural light heavyweight Doug Jones was robbed against Ali
> 8) The ropes were loose to suit Ali against Foreman. Without them he'd have been destroyed
> ...


:lol:

Anyway the OP and this thread..:ughh


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> you're on your own on this one :lol:


LOL. I don't feel i am on my own in this one. There are plenty of fighters/trainers that think Floyd is number 1 and a lot think he is in top10. 
JMM is going to be consider an ATG, and p4p num3 when he fought Floyd. Floyd was able to pitch a shutout on an ATG landing over at 59% and got hit by 11%. He beat his best oppositions down like they were sparring partners.

He got the skills to back it up. He have the resume. He got the longevity. For years till now there is no one that can be favored against him at 140-147 and 154.

There are plenty going for him that gives the num1 spot a challenge.


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## knowimuch (May 9, 2014)

tliang1000 said:


> LOL. I don't feel i am on my own in this one. There are plenty of fighters/trainers that think Floyd is number 1 and a lot think he is in *top10.
> JMM is going to be consider an ATG, and p4p num3 when he fought Floyd.* Floyd was able to pitch a shutout on an ATG landing over at 59% and got hit by 11%. He beat his best oppositions down like they were sparring partners.
> 
> He got the skills to back it up. He have the resume. He got the longevity. For years till now there is no one that can be favored against him at 140-147 and 154.
> ...


He came up in weight and Floyd came in overweight


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

I find it funny that people don't see the contradictions. The fab4, willie pep, Harry Greb, Roy Jones, and etc. They are suppose to be greater than Floyd bc they have "certain names" on their record and then they get beat early, mid and late in their careers by C and B level fighters. I thought they are more skilled? much more than Floyd.

*If they are so much better than why are they losing to bums?* The answer is simple.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> LOL. I don't feel i am on my own in this one. There are plenty of fighters/trainers that think Floyd is number 1 and a lot think he is in top10.
> JMM is going to be consider an ATG, and p4p num3 when he fought Floyd. Floyd was able to pitch a shutout on an ATG landing over at 59% and got hit by 11%. He beat his best oppositions down like they were sparring partners.
> 
> He got the skills to back it up. He have the resume. He got the longevity. For years till now there is no one that can be favored against him at 140-147 and 154.
> ...


I told you to kill yourself.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> I find it funny that people don't see the contradictions. The fab4, willie pep, Harry Greb, Roy Jones, and etc. They are suppose to be greater than Floyd bc they have "certain names" on their record and then they get beat early, mid and late in their careers by C and B level fighters. I thought they are more skilled? much more than Floyd.
> 
> *If they are so much better than why are they losing to bums?* The answer is simple.


You know nothing about any of the fighters you have mentioned, nor their opponents.

You literally know nothing about boxing.

I bet your response will be, 'But I bet on boxing and make money'. That's bullshit.

You're a fantasist in a shit band and I sincerely hope you die of cancer very soon.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

knowimuch said:


> He came up in weight and Floyd came in overweight


boo hoo. Floyd didn't outmuscled JMM and he outboxed him. Floyd didn't margarito JMM and bum rush him and overpower him. He pulled counter and in and out relying on speed that coming in overweight doesn't benefit from.

Floyd coming up in weight and dethrone and shut out champions. You want the opportunity then threw the excuses out the window.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> You know nothing about any of the fighters you have mentioned, nor their opponents.
> 
> You literally know nothing about boxing.
> 
> ...


I know nothing but i can research just like you buddy.
You can study all you want and memorize the wonderful hype and achievements from other eras all you want. And i can do what i do best as well. Which is to analyze fighters. You got your opinion and i got mine.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

If Floyd is not as good as the past greats then why is he still undefeated????
If the past great is getting beat by c and b level fighters then Floyd should've lost to them as well maybe even worse D level fighters bc "he is not as great"
*
The reality of it is that Floyd will probably never lose to a B level fighter even when he is in his 40s.*


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> If Floyd is not as good as the past greats then why is he still undefeated????
> If the past great is getting beat by c and b level fighters then Floyd should've lost to them as well maybe even worse D level fighters bc "he is not as great"
> *
> The reality of it is that Floyd will probably never lose to a B level fighter even when he is in his 40s.*


So when will Floyd move up to 160 and dethrone a middleweight champ?



tliang1000 said:


> I know nothing but i can research just like you buddy.
> You can study all you want and memorize the wonderful hype and achievements from other eras all you want. And i can do what i do best as well. Which is to analyze fighters. You got your opinion and i got mine.


Your research consists of looking at boxrec, that's it.
You don't even bother looking at the context of the situations.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

dyna said:


> So when will Floyd move up to 160 and dethrone a middleweight champ?
> 
> *Your research consists of looking at boxrec, that's it.*
> You don't even bother looking at the context of the situations.


Yeah i never watch any fights whatsoever. I just look at boxrec and go on boxing forums.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Also Mayweather would lose to B-level pressure fighters in his 40s.
He's already very much on the decline judging by Maidana.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

dyna said:


> Also Mayweather would lose to B-level pressure fighters in his 40s.
> *He's already very much on the decline judging by Maidana*.


That's funny bc i said that Floyd allowed Maidana to be in a fight and gives him some opportunities to make it a fight. And then there is an interview where Keith Thurman said the same thing. And then on the rematch i told everyone that Floyd will use his legs and leaves no doubt.

So how many times was i right? and here you are making assumptions bc of one fight and can't even recognize that Floyd could easily chose to box. He is old compared to you but then he is about to beat Pacqiauo who is far better than Maidana.

What you just said just proved that you dksab.


----------



## Bernard Black (Mar 7, 2015)

atsch


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> That's funny bc i said that Floyd allowed Maidana to be in a fight and gives him some opportunities to make it a fight. And then there is an interview where Keith Thurman said the same thing. And then on the rematch i told everyone that Floyd will use his legs and leaves no doubt.
> 
> So how many times was i right? and here you are making assumptions bc of one fight and can't even recognize that Floyd could easily chose to box. He is old compared to you but then he is about to beat Pacqiauo who is far better than Maidana.
> 
> Why you just said just proved that you dksab.


Manny won't put non-stop pressure on Floyd like Maidana but fights in burst which will be easier for Floyd to exploit, and Manny is also getting old (besides having been a pro longer than Floyd).
Against Maidana the second time Floyd put on a very negative performance, if Floyd continues fighting for a few years. Younger fresher guys will start winning fights based on pure activity alone.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> if they don't fight each other then who the hell are they going to fight? Just like Floyd had rivals and he fought them.


Take each of the fab 4 wins away from each other and they're still probably candidates for All time Greatness.

Floyd hasn't even fought his only contemporary rival yet. Please.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Bernard Black said:


> @Bogotazo what do you think about a tliang 'king of flomos' mega thread?


:think

I think we should maybe leave what already exists, but merge anything bumped or created hereafter. We don't want it turning into multiple threads about tliang's nuthuggery.



Flea Man said:


> Anyone with eyes can see that Guerrero's stiffness and bog-standard plodding movement is more of a skill than Duran's feints, defence, angles and all-round offensive ability.
> 
> Clearly Canelo's slip and counter game is more pleasing on the eye than Benitez's. Let alone more technical!
> 
> ...


:rofl


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> *Take each of the fab 4 wins away from each other and they're still probably candidates for All time Greatness.*
> 
> *Floyd hasn't even fought his only contemporary rival yet*. Please.


Oh really? what is left then? couple of b and a level fighters? You take those wins away and it will be really clear that they are much inferior to Floyds.

Floyd hasn't fought his only contemporary rival? Shows how much boxing you know.
Floyd pertake in 24 championship bouts but none of them are his rivals? Another ridiculous statement and a contracting one at that.

Was Corrales an undefeated in primed ko artist not Floyd's rival? In prime Castillo not his rival?
Judah, Oscar, Hatton, Shane, Cotto, JMM, Canelo not his rivals???
Did you forgot the months of debate on the forum of accusations of Floyd ducking Oscar, Hatton, Shane, Cotto, and would never fight Canelo.

You have memory loss.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tezel8764 said:


> @Bogotazo


:rofl



dyna said:


> Also Mayweather would lose to B-level pressure fighters in his 40s.
> He's already very much on the decline judging by Maidana.


I had Maidana drawing with Floyd at 38. Regardless of whether people agree with that exact score I don't get why some fans insist Floyd could just be Hopkins if he wanted to.

Also tired of hearing the excuse that Floyd only has trouble when he wants to. "There's nothing cool about taking punishment. The fans don't care about your health. Unless, you know, I get hit. Then it's cool and for the fans."


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Fab4 seemed larger than life bc boxing was more popular and they were greats from the past. They were all popular and received more credit due to their hype. In reality they were each other's rivals... if they don't fight each other then who the hell are they going to fight? Just like Floyd had rivals and he fought them. The difference is because he made it look easy and had a clear separation while the fab4 didn't have it as define. Perhap the fact is bc Floyd is just simply better. Floyd displayed a unbeatable aura and his skills were delivered with flawless execution defensively and offensively. Able to fight in every range and overcome every situation and adjusts well. People throwing his name out there as the best or one of the best for a reason. Anyone who doesn't see that are the ones who dksab with their endless excuses. Bozos


Who are these people who also considers him TBE? MichiganWarrior? The Mayweather clan? Bieber?

You have just basically declared 99.9% of people who follow the sport as dksab. That's a great start to convince people and accept your argument.
@Bogotazo has a point, he is a the twilight of his career and was yet to face his rival in the ring.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> :rofl
> 
> I had Maidana drawing with Floyd at 38. Regardless of whether people agree with that exact score I don't get why some fans insist Floyd could just be Hopkins if he wanted to.
> 
> Also tired of hearing the excuse that Floyd only has trouble when he wants to. "There's nothing cool about taking punishment. *The fans don't care about your health. Unless, you know, I get hit. Then it's cool and for the fans*."


He took much punishment against Maidana? BC he laid on the ropes so therefore Floyd got beat up. That is news to me.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Oh really? what is left then? couple of b and a level fighters? You take those wins away and it will be really clear that they are much inferior to Floyds.


Some A, A-, and B+ level fighters.

If you think their resumes are so bad otherwise, name what their best non-Fab 4 wins are and argue against them. Go ahead. Let me see that you even know what they are.



tliang1000 said:


> Floyd hasn't fought his only contemporary rival? Shows how much boxing you know.
> Floyd pertake in 24 championship bouts but none of them are his rivals? Another ridiculous statement and a contracting one at that.


Do you know what "contemporary" and "rival" means? Neither means "beltholder Floyd fought".



tliang1000 said:


> Was Corrales an undefeated in primed ko artist not Floyd's rival? In prime Castillo not his rival?


Not rivals, no.



tliang1000 said:


> Judah, Oscar, Hatton, Shane, Cotto, JMM, Canelo not his rivals???
> Did you forgot the months of debate on the forum of accusations of Floyd ducking Oscar, Hatton, Shane, Cotto, and would never fight Canelo.


Do you know what a rival is? Define rival for me. Opponents are not automatically rivals. You will never see "Mayweather-Judah" or "Mayweather-Canelo" on a list of historic boxing rivalries. You sound so dumb. Why do you do this to yourself.



tliang1000 said:


> You have memory loss.


No, I just speak the English language well enough.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> He took much punishment against Maidana? BC he laid on the ropes so therefore Floyd got beat up. That is news to me.


He got hit more than usual. More than ever, according to compubox. You like numbers without context right? How about those?


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Who are these people who also considers him TBE? MichiganWarrior? The Mayweather clan? Bieber?
> 
> You have just basically declared 99.9% of people who follow the sport as dksab. That's a great start to convince people and accept your argument.
> 
> @*Bogotazo* has a point, he is a the twilight of his career and was yet to face his rival in the ring.


There is a lot of people who dksab. Most just repeat what they are told and suffers group think or are too afraid to voice their opinions. So what you are telling me that i can't find people who is considering him as the best, or considers him in the top10 from fighters/trainers???:rolleyes
*My point is not to convince, but rather bring up the facts why Floyd is being considered due to his overall achievements and ability. *You got people who will say, yeah i see where you are coming from... or i never looked at it that way and you people who will not accept or admit it.

And Bozo doesn't have a point about yet to face his rival in the ring. *When Floyd moved up in weight and dethrone the best in that division, or another boxing superstar, or fought someone in public demand of who they think FLoyd should fight and he did. Then he has beaten his rivals.
Just bc Floyd has beaten his rival doesn't mean his rivals get erased off as his rivals.
*


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> He got hit more than usual. More than ever, according to compubox. You like numbers without context right? How about those?


Hey even if you do believe that he didn't overlook or allow Maidana to be in the fight, but he still beaten the "b level" fighter didn't he at age 37. Can you say that about the other past greats at age 37 without a loss?


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> There is a lot of people who dksab. Most just repeat what they are told and suffers group think or are too afraid to voice their opinions. So what you are telling me that i can't find people who is considering him as the best, or considers him in the top10 from fighters/trainers???:rolleyes
> *My point is not to convince, but rather bring up the facts why Floyd is being considered due to his overall achievements and ability. *You got people who will say, yeah i see where you are coming from... or i never looked at it that way and you people who will not accept or admit it.
> 
> And Bozo doesn't have a point about yet to face his rival in the ring. *When Floyd moved up in weight and dethrone the best in that division, or another boxing superstar, or fought someone in public demand of who they think FLoyd should fight and he did. Then he has beaten his rivals.*


Then who and where are these people?

Seems like you can find a lot. So who are they?


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Hey even if you do believe that he didn't overlook or allow Maidana to be in the fight, but he still beaten the "b level" fighter didn't he at age 37. Can you say that about the other past greats at age 37 without a loss?


Duran beat a middleweight title holder Iran Barkley when he was 37, just saying.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Most just repeat what they are told[/B]


Self awareness. Do you not have any?


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Duran beat a middleweight title holder Iran Barkley when he was 37, just saying.


:yep Had much more mileage too.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Yeah i never watch any fights whatsoever. I just look at boxrec and go on boxing forums.


This is true.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Then who and where are these people?
> 
> Seems like you can find a lot. So who are they?


Mikey Garcia, Robert Garcia, Rios, Bradley, Bhop, even SRL said that floyd belongs in his era just off the top of my head.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Hey even if you do believe that he didn't overlook or allow Maidana to be in the fight, but he still beaten the "b level" fighter didn't he at age 37. Can you say that about the other past greats at age 37 without a loss?


I'm addressing your claim he can still be undefeated in his 40's. I don't even consider him undefeated now due to Castillo 1 (but he's not the first or the last fighter to get the benefit of the doubt in a close fight).


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Mikey Garcia, Robert Garcia, Rios, Bradley, Bhop, even SRL said that floyd belongs in his era just off the top of my head.


Fighters are not often historians. Don't appeal to authority, make the argument yourself.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Duran beat a middleweight title holder Iran Barkley when he was 37, just saying.


yeah he also lost to Robbie sims too. Just saying.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I'm addressing your claim he can still be undefeated in his 40's. I don't even consider him undefeated now due to Castillo 1 (but he's not the first or the last fighter to get the benefit of the doubt in a close fight).


Floyd won first 5 rounds with 4 swings rounds. do the math and the possibly of the judging giving Floyd the fight.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Nobody is denying Floyd isn't one of the best ever.

But he isn't the best, that much is clear.
And consistency is only going to bring him that far, especially if his resume isn't too strong compared to the greatest 30 or so fighter.

If you want to argue Floyd is TBE you have to throw resume out of the window and only refer to how he looks on film.
Even then it's quite a stretch to call him TBE.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> :rofl
> 
> I had Maidana drawing with Floyd at 38. Regardless of whether people agree with that exact score I don't get why some fans insist Floyd could just be Hopkins if he wanted to.
> 
> Also tired of hearing the excuse that Floyd only has trouble when he wants to. "There's nothing cool about taking punishment. The fans don't care about your health. Unless, you know, I get hit. Then it's cool and for the fans."


Your scorecards are always atrocious though.

The fact Floyd won every round of the second fight proves your bhop statement as well


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Fighters are not often historians. Don't appeal to authority, make the argument yourself.


and you going to value historians over actual fighters. ok.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Who are these people who also considers him TBE? MichiganWarrior? The Mayweather clan? Bieber?
> 
> You have just basically declared 99.9% of people who follow the sport as dksab. That's a great start to convince people and accept your argument.
> 
> @Bogotazo has a point, he is a the twilight of his career and was yet to face his rival in the ring.


I dont consider Floyd TBE. And please dont act like your midget pactard ass knows anything about boxing.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Your scorecards are always atrocious though.
> 
> The fact Floyd won every round of the second fight proves your bhop statement as well


Bogotazo is a very smart guy but he is definitely a bias boxing fan. He had JMM winning the fight against Bradley where it is not really a hard fight to score. But he sees what he wants to see.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Duran beat a middleweight title holder Iran Barkley when he was 37, just saying.


while floyd was defending his wbc 154 belt against 147 marcos maidana...and will be two years in september since hes defended it against a ranked 154 opponent.

i dont believe that has ever happened in the 30 years ive been following the sport.

where a title holder, who was not injured or in a contract dispute, was allowed to hold his belt for two years without facing a ranked opponent in his weight class


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Bogotazo is a very smart guy but he is definitely a bias boxing fan. He had JMM winning the fight against Bradley where it is not really a hard fight to score. But he sees what he wants to see.


While I had Bradley winning clearly, a lot had Marquez winning.
7-5 for Juan isn't an atrocious scorecard.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Bogotazo is a very smart guy but he is definitely a bias boxing fan. He had JMM winning the fight against Bradley where it is not really a hard fight to score. But he sees what he wants to see.


He also scored Mayweather vs Cotto and draw and thinks Floyd vs Judah was close

Maidana vs Mayweather 1 was not that close fight wise, Mayweather dominated the last 4 rounds. 7-5 if you give Maidana every benefit


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Your scorecards are always atrocious though.
> 
> The fact Floyd won every round of the second fight proves your bhop statement as well


Your entire existence as a poster has been a laughing stock though. Why are you talking to me?

Every round of the 2nd fight? And you criticize my cards. As if that somehow erases the previous misstep?


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> and you going to value historians over actual fighters. ok.


When talking about boxing history? Yes.


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> I dont consider Floyd TBE. And please dont act like your midget pactard ass knows anything about boxing.


Some guts to tell me what to do for someone who cannot even comprehend a single term used in boxing.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Floyd won first 5 rounds with 4 swings rounds. do the math and the possibly of the judging giving Floyd the fight.


I scored each round separately and gave Castillo 7. As have many other people. It was very close.



tliang1000 said:


> and you going to value historians over actual fighters. ok.


Why would fighting alone give you knowledge of boxing history?


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Your entire existence as a poster has been a laughing stock though. Why are you talking to me?
> 
> Every round of the 2nd fight? And you criticize my cards. As if that somehow erases the previous misstep?


Laughing stock. And a lot of people thinks you are full of shit and writes winded essays. 
Only person that i give a shit about what they think of me is my kids and my boss, the rest i could careless bc i'm not a insecure little girl like some people.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Your entire existence as a poster has been a laughing stock though. Why are you talking to me?


You seek validation on an internet forum because youre a nobody in real life who gets rejected on online dating and spars the heavy bag at fitness one. Spare me



> Every round of the 2nd fight? And you criticize my cards. As if that somehow erases the previous misstep?


Floyd said if he fights a certain way hed win every round, he goes and does it.

Wheres your argument


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I scored each round separately and gave Castillo 7. As have many other people. It was very close.
> 
> Why would fighting alone give you knowledge of boxing history?


Yep, I'm convinced mate. Off to nearest boxing gym an ask a former pro to fix me an ATG list.

Bert Sugar be damned.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Some guts to tell me what to do for someone who cannot even comprehend a single term used in boxing.


Run along lil man. You probably come up to my knees


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> When talking about boxing history? Yes.


As if they are not victims of bias as well? Growing up watching certain fighters? They are no different then hardcore boxing fans.
I much rather value a boxer/trainer over someone who just watches boxing and shit out an opinion.


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Run along lil man. You probably come up to my knees


If you manage to floor me probably.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I scored each round separately and gave Castillo 7. As have many other people. It was very close.
> 
> Why would fighting alone give you knowledge of boxing history?


Press row was 50/50 with most boxing writers, espn, steve kim, kellerman ect scoring for Floyd

Floyd won, what you consider is immaterial


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> If you manage to floor me probably.


No doubt you already sleep on one


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> No doubt you already sleep on one


You don't even know what it is.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> You don't even know what it is.


Good one tattoo


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Good one tattoo


Thanks albino.


----------



## knowimuch (May 9, 2014)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Yep, I'm convinced mate. Off to nearest boxing gym an ask a former pro to fix me an ATG list.
> 
> Bert Sugar be damned.


To be fair Bert Sugar's top 100 list is well a little sugar-coated


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Thanks albino.


another singer, seen fluffy lately? Been missing since before dinner


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> As if they are not victims of bias as well? Growing up watching certain fighters? They are no different then hardcore boxing fans.
> I much rather value a boxer/trainer over someone who just watches boxing and shit out an opinion.


Boxing historians don't tend to just 'watch boxing' though. I think that's what you're struggling to comprehend.

Do you know what 'history' means?


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

knowimuch said:


> To be fair Bert Sugar's top 100 list is well a little sugar-coated


Bert Sugar is a disgrace to all historians. He had no fucking clue whatsoever.


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

knowimuch said:


> To be fair Bert Sugar's top 100 list is well a little sugar-coated


Point taken mate. I just threw out there as an example.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Boxing historians don't tend to just 'watch boxing' though. I think that's what you're struggling to comprehend.
> 
> Do you know what 'history' means?


yeah yeah yeah. researches boxing's origins and read some shit about boxing. Articles, interviews and etc.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> yeah yeah yeah. researches boxing's origins and read some shit about boxing. Articles, interviews and etc.


And what research have you done to come to the conclusion that Floyd is 'TBE'?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Press row was 50/50


Which proves it was a close fight and Castillo by a round is totally reasonable. Thanks for helping me prove my argument.



MichiganWarrior said:


> You seek validation on an internet forum because youre a nobody in real life who gets rejected on online dating and spars the heavy bag at fitness one. Spare me


:rofl You're still holding onto that? Check the thread stupid, problem solved. I'm about to get a Juris Doctor as one of the youngest in my graduating class. Unlike you I've trained and sparred in a competitive gym, don't project just because you have to make up deadlifting records. I'm not the one who lives vicariously through a stranger's successes and acts like a caricature of a black person online because my appearance denies me my father's blackness in society.

You now have my permission to shut the fuck up and stop distracting from the thread with your trolling.



MichiganWarrior said:


> Floyd said if he fights a certain way hed win every round, he goes and does it.


You're the only person who thinks he won every round in the rematch. Took him two fights, just like Castillo, to fight out of the norm and correct himself. That's not giving me confidence he can replicate B-Hop longevity, which is the issue at hand before you jumped in trying to act big and defend your hero.

Please Michigan, nobody takes you seriously. Go back to ESB and boxingscene like you wanted where you can be a big fish in a glass of water.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Yep, I'm convinced mate. Off to nearest boxing gym an ask a former pro to fix me an ATG list.
> 
> Bert Sugar be damned.


:rofl That would actually be a funny experiment.


----------



## Theron (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> and you going to value historians over actual fighters. ok.


Historians study the sport and its history, fighters often cant be objective, have an ego and havnt studied the entire history.

Example, Tommy Hearns list

1: Muhammad Ali
2: Joe Frazier

Must of watched their fights growing up

3: Thomas Hearns

Himself ofcourse, the Ali Frazier fights must have been a big deal to him when he grew up, idolizes them and cant view himself better than them even with his ego

4: Roberto Duran

Probably cause of how he blasted Duran out so impressively while Duran beat Leonard making the win that much better to him

5: Wilfred Benitez

Beat Wilfredo so of course hell be above Leonard who actually beat Hearns

6: Sugar Ray Leonard
7: Mike Tyson
8: Floyd Mayweather
9: George Foreman

10: Marvin Hagler

Lost to him so hes gotta be below the guys he did beat too.

See that, nobody on there that was around before his lifetime or before he could have watched them on tv, mostly guys that he fought and other very famous boxers he woulda seen when growing up or after his career.

Ask him about Greb, Langford, Benny Leonard, McFarland and id bet hed say "huh? who?"

Thats why historians should be believed over fighters, historians are historians and try to be unbias looking at the facts/whats available and the entire history of the sport, people often seem to think "hey theyre world class fighters how can historians be believed over them?"

Well cause most of the time fighters are just that, theyre fighters and not historians, a lot dont even watch heaps of boxing or even like the sport that much. I doubt most could name 10 boxers from before their generation and list their best wins.

Believing historians over boxers isnt crazy, or an ego trip for historians thinking theyre better, its smart, believing un bias people whove researched the entire history of the sport and know what theyre talking about... Damn crazy


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Laughing stock. And a lot of people thinks you are full of shit and writes winded essays.
> Only person that i give a shit about what they think of me is my kids and my boss, the rest i could careless bc i'm not a insecure little girl like some people.


Then why did you make this thread?


----------



## Smirk (Dec 14, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> You're still holding onto that? Check the thread stupid, problem solved. I'm about to get a Juris Doctor as one of the youngest in my graduating class. Unlike you I've trained and sparred in a competitive gym, don't project just because you have to make up deadlifting records. I'm not the one who lives vicariously through a stranger's successes and acts like a caricature of a black person online because my appearance denies me my father's blackness in society.


Hilarious. Take a bow.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Then why did you make this thread?


Bored... mainly


----------



## Theron (May 17, 2013)

@tliang1000

Whats your Top 20 Pound for Pound Greatest boxers ever list look like?


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I really don't know where to begin with this thread tbh. I know half of you's are taking the piss and I hope some of you's are at least partially trolling but damn theres some really messed up opinions in here. Anyway fuck it, I got an hour to piss about whilst I wait for all my photos to upload before I can do more work so may as well throw out an essay sized post on here.

So Floyd, As I've already said I rank him somewhere in the top 40, he's probably one of around 5 boxers from the last 30 years to do that, its an impressive feat. Just for clarity I'll throw the guys up who I'd have ranked ahead of him and then I'm sure some of you will go to great lengths to show your ignorance of some of these guys:

In no particular order - Harry Greb, Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Benny Leonard, Ezzard Charles, Sam Langford, Roberto Duran, Tony Canzoneri, Mickey Walker, Muhammad Ali, Julio Cesar Chavez, Barney Ross, Benny Leonard, Tiger Flowers, Marvin Hagler, Jimmy Bivins, Packey MacFarland, Joe Louis, Lennox Lewis, Archie Moore, Thomas Hearns, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pep, Pernell Whitaker, Bob Fitzsimmons, Terry McGovern, Joe Gans, Jimmy McLarnin, Holman Williams, Gene Tunney, Carlos Monzon, Eder Jofre, Jose Napoles and Emile Griifith.

Floyd slots in around here and because I haven't sat and fully compiled a list he'll probably feature around the same grouping as Lloyd Marshall, Tommy Gibbons, Roy Jones Jnr, Kid Gavilan, Sandy Saddler, Manny Pacquaio, Jimmy Wilde, Michael Spinks, Tommy Loughran, Bernard Hopkins and Ike Williams.

Thats a list of 45 fighters you could argue be above him. Not saying they all are but he slots into the latter group of fighters there and thats pretty amazing when you start thinking about the fighters I haven't included in the list.

So the next part will be why?

Well, firstly the classic fighters have an edge because they fought more often, fought better boxers more often, they had bigger fights nearer their primes for the most part, there was less bullshit in belts, weights and rankings (not gonna pretend it was perfect cause it wasn't but compared to now - fuck me it was). Fighters these days don't need to do that and are generally rewarded more for not doing that, I don't have a problem with that but I'm also not going to reward them for it - the older fighters put way more on the line and thus deservedly claim better legacies for their sacrifices.

The next thing I notice is people comparing eras in a terrible manor. Firstly you can't compare a twenty year career now to a twenty year career in the 1940s. It can't be done and is stupid, you'd be better off comparing how many fights and rounds were accumulated in the success of those fighters but again it's still an unfair comparison.

Similarly people try and compare fighting styles which again is ridiculous, you can't compare Floyd Mayweather Jnr to Barbados Joe Walcott, you can however compare their success' in their relative era's. I mean you could say Bruno looks better on film than Fitzsimmons but Fitzsimmons was light years ahead of his peers wheras Bruno was not. 

Another area I see being compared is champions faced as if near anyone can't see the flaw in that when their is to some people more champions in one division now than their was entire divisions back in time (its true - WBC, WBA, WBO, IBF, Ring, WBA Regular, Interim Titles and some people use Lineal). Again in some of the older era's you had claims to titles so saying so and so beat 25 champions could be akin to 25 contenders of another era. Add in comaprable contenders who if their era was divided by four would have been champions then you probably have a field of fighters with comparable amount of champions on their own records (or vice versa work out how many true champs Floyd fought and then compare).

Age again can be impressive but it can just as much be ascribed to past eras in a different form as ratios changed on what was considered old, what was considered a long career. No doubt FLoyd has an extremely impressive longevity int he sport but take away time off and work out the average of years fought at top level and he isn't really near the top of the pile. Of course he's not retired yet but he's probably just ahead of the average legend in terms of longevity (years).

So yeah if your going to bring a load of facts to the table then at least work them out to be more comparable by era than they are by directly comparing as that doesn't work at all.

Still though, FLoyd is a great fighter, about as good as we can really get in the modern era (well along with a small pool of legends) but to claim he is the best ever really has no weight to it.


----------



## Theron (May 17, 2013)

^ Benny Leonard so good he got in there twice :deal


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> And what research have you done to come to the conclusion that Floyd is 'TBE'?


While i don't completely believe if Floyd is TBE but he is getting extremely close depending on how you view it. I still believe that SRL got more big names then Floyd but Floyd got him beat in skills and Longevity. SRR got the big record, a lot of good names, and outstanding offense. 
Base on Videos of the top classic fighters and records, i think Floyd can be considered in a lot of ways.


----------



## Theron (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> While i don't completely believe if Floyd is TBE but he is getting extremely close depending on how you view it. I still believe that SRL got more big names then Floyd but Floyd got him beat in skills and Longevity. SRR got the big record, a lot of good names, and outstanding offense.
> Base on Videos of the top classic fighters and records, i think Floyd can be considered in a lot of ways.


Whos on your Top 20 P4P All time greats list


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Which proves it was a close fight and Castillo by a round is totally reasonable. Thanks for helping me prove my argument.


I dont have a problem with someone scoring the fight for Castilllo, you however consider it a loss when reality is Floyd won. 


> :rofl You're still holding onto that? Check the thread stupid, problem solved. I'm about to get a Juris Doctor as one of the youngest in my graduating class. Unlike you I've trained and sparred in a
> 
> don't project just because you have to make up deadlifting records. I'm not the one who lives vicariously through a stranger's successes and acts like a caricature of a black person online because my appearance denies me my father's blackness in society.


A girlfriend, a degree, and Sparring at competitive gyms, look at little hito moving up in the world

Some advice kid, rent to own and its not how deep you fish its how you wiggle your worm



> You're the only person who thinks he won every round in the rematch.


ESPN had it 119-108 a round off my scorecard



> Took him two fights, just like Castillo, to fight out of the norm and correct himself.


Floyd fought the same in both Castillo fights, his injury limited him

In the maidana fight he clearly allowed himself to get pushed to the ropes, in the 2nd fight he conciously fought a different fight as he said he would and wom the fight easily

You clearly struggle reading body language and tactics, a fault of not being a natural athlete i often see



> That's not giving me confidence he can replicate B-Hop longevity, which is the issue at hand before you jumped in trying to act big and defend your hero.


The only thing stopping Mayweather from maintaining his longevity is that welter is a much more competitive constant talent division the dreck bhop was fighting

If Floyd gets past pacquiao nobodies beating him soon however



> Michigan, nobody takes you seriously. Go back to ESB and boxingscene like you wanted where you can be a big fish in a glass of water.


Arent you referring to yourself and this forum lol. I mean you do know nobody really likes you here right?


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Theron said:


> ^ Benny Leonard so good he got in there twice :deal


This was a guy thrashing the welterweight titleholder but dq'd himself to win a bet against himself iirc.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Theron said:


> ^ Benny Leonard so good he got in there twice :deal


:rofl had to be done.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Theron said:


> @*tliang1000*
> 
> Whats your Top 20 Pound for Pound Greatest boxers ever list look like?


I have never tried to complied one, but i have sat down out of boredom and research the top 30 ATG in the list i see other people are throwing around and find footage if i can and watched them and i have analyze their records and history a bit. Like how sparring partner was not common back then bc of a lot fighters are in need of money and most doesn't even have amateur backgrounds. From what i have seen i definitely believe that Floyd belong at the least in the top 5, and Manny in the top 20 if not higher assuming that i find more footage and records that justify the classic's position.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

I cannot see Jofre> Harada and Holman Williams (nor Burley, didn't see him but throwing it out there) shouldn't be in the top cluster. I know they paod their dues and done some amazing things and were hard done by....but Freddie Steele > both of 'em (and Monzon--who is horribly overrated by everyone) and he's not top 50. 

Tiger Flowers is not even top 100 material IMO. Floyd is much greater than Flowers.


----------



## Theron (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> I have never tried to complied one, but i have sat down out of boredom and research the top 30 ATG in the list i see other people are throwing around and find footage if i can and watched them and i have analyze their records and history a bit. Like how sparring partner was not common back then bc of a lot fighters are in need of money and most doesn't even have amateur backgrounds. From what i have seen i definitely believe that Floyd belong at the least in the top 5, and Manny in the top 20 if not higher assuming that i find more footage and records that justify the classic's position.


Are Floyds top opponents or "rivals" above SRL, Duran, Hearns and Hagler in your view?


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> I have never tried to complied one, but i have sat down out of boredom and research the top 30 ATG in the list i see other people are throwing around and find footage if i can and watched them and i have analyze their records and history a bit. Like how sparring partner was not common back then bc of a lot fighters are in need of money and most doesn't even have amateur backgrounds. From what i have seen i definitely believe that Floyd belong at the least in the top 5, and Manny in the top 20 if not higher assuming that i find more footage and records that justify the classic's position.


Sparring partner was not common back....when?!

Sparring was always happening! Nearly all of the top fighters have months (or years) worth of documented sparring, even round by round analysis and newspaper reports of it.

WTF are you talking about?! You have absolutely zero clue!


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Sparring partner was not common back....when?!
> 
> Sparring was always happening! Nearly all of the top fighters have months (or years) worth of documented sparring, even round by round analysis and newspaper reports of it.
> 
> WTF are you talking about?! You have absolutely zero clue!


It was a typo i was thinking amateur but typed sparring. Honest mistake i swear LOL. i'm literally betting on live tennis, working and thinking replies.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Theron said:


> Are Floyds top opponents or "rivals" above SRL, Duran, Hearns and Hagler in your view?


huh... what u mean?


----------



## Theron (May 17, 2013)

@Flea Man ^^ Too that one, he said that he studied history and found that out about sparring partners.

That was actually what Bogotazo said yesterday in the SRL thread to him when he was "dissecting" (= pasted screenshot from boxrec) Grebs resume.

So that classic research... was what a guy he was arguing with yesturday said to him...


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> It was a typo i was thinking amateur but typed sparring. Honest mistake i swear LOL. i'm literally betting on live tennis, working and thinking replies.


Well I can think of a few Olympians off the top of my head from nearly 100 years ago who won world titles. And ABA champions.

Anyway, this is because instead of fighting amateur they did there learning in the pros. Hence their spottier records.

Include Floyd's amateur record and he's not undefeated. That's as petty as you holding losses against fighters you know nothing about.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Theron said:


> @Flea Man ^^ Too that one, he said that he studied history and found that out about sparring partners.
> 
> That was actually what Bogotazo said yesterday in the SRL thread to him when he was "dissecting" (= pasted screenshot from boxrec) Grebs resume.
> 
> So that classic research... was what a guy he was arguing with yesturday said to him...


Christ on a bike!

Honestly, and I mean this, if I was as retarded as Tony Liang I would kill myself.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Jimmy McClarnim had an amateur career, he was Canadian champ

Jumped in with an Olympic gold medalist a few times within 20 fights. Larbaba--the Olympic gold medalist--was in single digit pro bout figures. 

Both went on to be ATG world champions

This was the 1920's.


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> huh... what u mean?


This whole thread started with you comparing FLoyds opponents to the level of the Fab 4. If Floyds opponents are that good then shouldnt they be above or level with SRL, Hearns, Duran, Hagler on an all time list?

Thats why im interested in seeing your P4P list.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Theron said:


> @*Flea Man* ^^ Too that one, he said that he studied history and found that out about sparring partners.
> 
> That was actually what Bogotazo said yesterday in the SRL thread to him when he was "dissecting" (= pasted screenshot from boxrec) Grebs resume.
> 
> So that classic research... was what a guy he was arguing with yesturday said to him...


i meant amateur background not sparring. mind was in autopilot mode.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> I cannot see Jofre> Harada and Holman Williams (nor Burley, didn't see him but throwing it out there) shouldn't be in the top cluster. I know they paod their dues and done some amazing things and were hard done by....but Freddie Steele > both of 'em (and Monzon--who is horribly overrated by everyone) and he's not top 50.
> 
> Tiger Flowers is not even top 100 material IMO. Floyd is much greater than Flowers.


You can make an argument Flowers beat Greb x3, Walker, McTigue (2 of the Greb fights were controversial so could have swapped round, the Walker loss was controversial and the McTigue one was meant to be a huge robbery) and Darcy among others which is a really solid list of wins. I guess the Norfolk and Langford destructions don't help but both were amazing boxers.

I put Williams in and the list is in no order.

I don't rank Burley that highly, he never really got the opportunities to make a huge jump up the list and the ones he did get he lost.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Christ on a bike!
> 
> Honestly, and I mean this, if I was as retarded as Tony Liang I would kill myself.


Did you busted a nut when i have that typo.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> I dont have a problem with someone scoring the fight for Castilllo, you however consider it a loss when reality is Floyd won.
> 
> A girlfriend, a degree, and Sparring at competitive gyms, look at little hito moving up in the world
> 
> ...


The discussion here is about whether Floyd is truly TBE. I've yet to see a reasonable poster make this claim. Tliang made a comment about whether Floyd could fight into his 40's. Struggling with Maidana indicates he probably can't. The style he showed in the rematch is the exception, not his usual, and the opposite is true for how he fought in the first fight. He always fights backing up and countering right in front of an opponent. And just like Castillo the rematch was an uncharacteristically skittish and minimalist performance. Use the shoulder excuse if you want, it doesn't change the standard for a reasonable scorecard. And you can say "Floyd fights that way for the fans" if you'd like, it just doesn't fit with Floyd's own philosophy and history. Those are simply the facts.

:rofl Wiggle the worm, I like that actually.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Chatty said:


> You can make an argument Flowers beat Greb x3, Walker, McTigue (2 of the Greb fights were controversial so could have swapped round, the Walker loss was controversial and the McTigue one was meant to be a huge robbery) and Darcy among others which is a really solid list of wins. I guess the Norfolk and Langford destructions don't help but both were amazing boxers.
> 
> I put Williams in and the list is in no order.
> 
> I don't rank Burley that highly, he never really got the opportunities to make a huge jump up the list and the ones he did get he lost.


A severely diminished Greb you should add.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Theron said:


> @Flea Man ^^ Too that one, he said that he studied history and found that out about sparring partners.
> 
> That was actually what Bogotazo said yesterday in the SRL thread to him when he was "dissecting" (= pasted screenshot from boxrec) Grebs resume.
> 
> So that classic research... was what a guy he was arguing with yesturday said to him...


He said this? Oh dear.


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

Does Pac become TBE if he wins? @tliang1000


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

dyna said:


> A severely diminished Greb you should add.


We'll never know how diminished he was, whilst he was certainly past his prime he still only lost a couple of fights from about a hundred n the run up to his last few fights. One of the fights Flowers lost that possibly should have won was before some of his biggest victories in Walker and Rosenbloom as well.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Theron said:


> This whole thread started with you comparing FLoyds opponents to the level of the Fab 4. If Floyds opponents are that good then shouldnt they be above or level with SRL, Hearns, Duran, Hagler on an all time list?
> 
> Thats why im interested in seeing your P4P list.


First of all their careers is not done yet so you can't really fully define where they stand. and second of all who is coming up with this all time list and why should i take their opinions over mine?


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Ivan Drago said:


> Does Pac become TBE if he wins? @*tliang1000*


Depends how you look at it.


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> First of all their careers is not done yet so you can't really fully define where they stand. and second of all who is coming up with this all time list and why should i take their opinions over mine?


You just mentioned Corrales as Floyd's rival. No doubt he is one of Floyd's best win and his career is definitely over since he is dead.

So in your opinion, how does he compare historically to the opponents of the fab 4?


----------



## Theron (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> First of all their careers is not done yet so you can't really fully define where they stand. and second of all who is coming up with this all time list and why should i take their opinions over mine?


Oh jesusss dude noooo.

*So youre saying we cant define where they stand cause their careers arent over yet but this whole thread was built on you defining where they stand by saying theyre as good as SRL, Duran, Hagler, Hearns* .............................
....................................................................................................................................

:blood:conf


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

sugarshane_24 said:


> This was a guy thrashing the welterweight titleholder but dq'd himself to win a bet against himself iirc.


More like Benny was getting schooled by an ancient welter and lost on a highly controversial dq.


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Depends how you look at it.


If Pac wins, his stock as an ATG moves up a notch or 2 but definitely not TBE.

And this coming from a guy they call a pactard.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Chatty said:


> You can make an argument Flowers beat Greb x3, Walker, McTigue (2 of the Greb fights were controversial so could have swapped round, the Walker loss was controversial and the McTigue one was meant to be a huge robbery) and Darcy among others which is a really solid list of wins. I guess the Norfolk and Langford destructions don't help but both were amazing boxers.
> 
> I put Williams in and the list is in no order.
> 
> I don't rank Burley that highly, he never really got the opportunities to make a huge jump up the list and the ones he did get he lost.


Burley was Williams' superior. He also got on far better with Cocoa Kid than Williams did.

As fir Flowers, Delaney battered him too, and the Greb he beat was right at the end of his career, pretty much blind, and faded.

Flowers is nowhere near top 100 for me.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> You just mentioned Corrales as Floyd's rival. No doubt he is one of Floyd's best win and his career is definitely over since he is dead.
> 
> So in your opinion, how does he compare historically to the opponents of the fab 4?


He falls short. He was one of those fighters that fell apart after he took a couple of losses plus his weight drain really robbed his potential so no he doesn't compare. Nonetheless, it was a great win for Floyd and was his rival.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Burley was Williams' superior. He also got on far better with Cocoa Kid than Williams did.
> 
> As fir Flowers, Delaney battered him too, and the Greb he beat was right at the end of his career, pretty much blind, and faded.
> 
> Flowers is nowhere near top 100 for me.


True but also got handled of Bivins and Charles fairly comfortably (one a battering of Ezzard) and lost to Marshall which I've read conflicting reports about from being controversial to Marshall beating him handidly.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Did you busted a nut when i have that typo.


Yes, because I need you to make a typo to see an error. Everything you post is abysmal.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> If Pac wins, his stock as an ATG moves up a notch or 2 but definitely not TBE.
> 
> And this coming from a guy they call a pactard.


I don't think so either bc he took some bad losses early, mid and late in his career. Pac is really excellent fighter but he is not trips and stumbles a bit like most greats.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Burley was Williams' superior. He also got on far better with Cocoa Kid than Williams did.


- Hi, guys. I'm Archie Moore's father.


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Depends how you look at it.


So Pacquiao could potentially be the best boxer of all time come May 2nd. Depending how you look at it?


----------



## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Chatty said:


> True but also got handled of Bivins and Charles fairly comfortably (one a battering of Ezzard) and lost to Marshall which I've read conflicting reports about from being controversial to Marshall beating him handidly.


Marshall had that fight, from what I remember Marshall had atleast half the rounds and the rest were quite close


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> - Hi, guys. I'm Archie Moore's father.


Is that Ezzard?


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Chatty said:


> True but also got handled of Bivins and Charles fairly comfortably (one a battering of Ezzard) and lost to Marshall which I've read conflicting reports about from being controversial to Marshall beating him handidly.


Either way, neither are top 50 material. I know McGrain says that Williams has more top quality wins than any middleweight in history, I think that's because the era is slightly overrated.

Wasn't any better than the one Rodriguez did very much the same thing in. Luis Manuel Rodriguez and Emile Griffith are both greater than Marshall, Burley and Williams IMO.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Is that Ezzard?


Nah, it's the incredible Eddie Booker.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> - Hi, guys. I'm Archie Moore's father.


He looks suspiciously young for a guy supposed to be Moore's father. :huh


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> I don't think so either bc he took some bad losses early, mid and late in his career. Pac is really excellent fighter but he is not trips and stumbles a bit like most greats.


Your criteria is terrible, so I'm going to make an equally terrible criteria up.

'Floyd has had less fights than Pacquiao. If he'd had the same amount he might have the same amount of losses. Len Wickwar is greater than anyone because he had the most fights ever'.


----------



## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Man I love Booker, hes one of those dudes where whenever you read up on him he sounds like a god damn monster.


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Nah, it's the incredible Eddie Booker.


Those murderer's row peers would be multiple titlist in todays era.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

dyna said:


> He looks suspiciously young for a guy supposed to be Moore's father. :huh


Are you taking the piss?


----------



## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Booker vs Burley coulda been somethin, imagine that on film :deal


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

dyna said:


> He looks suspiciously young for a guy supposed to be Moore's father. :huh


You serious man? :lol:


----------



## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Your criteria is terrible, so I'm going to make an equally terrible criteria up.
> 
> 'Floyd has had less fights than Pacquiao. If he'd had the same amount he might have the same amount of losses. *Len Wickwar is greater than anyone because he had the most fights ever'.*


:lol:
A real life person has said this to me before... I didnt even know how to respond.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Ivan Drago said:


> So Pacquiao could potentially be the best boxer of all time come May 2nd. Depending how you look at it?


You do know that every ATG ranking list is all opinion based right? People could say well he beat someone who is considered as the best or top3 or top10 so therefore he is.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Are you taking the piss?





sugarshane_24 said:


> You serious man? :lol:


Since Archie Moore was 58 years old most of his career I would have figured his father must have been even older.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> First of all their careers is not done yet so you can't really fully define where they stand. and second of all who is coming up with this all time list and why should i take their opinions over mine?


TBF with Floyd a lot of his opponents careers are done - Corrales, Castillo, Hatton, Judah, Oscar, Mosley, Mitchell, Gatti, Chavez, Hernandez, Corley, Baldomir are all retired or at the point where they are just fighting for money. Ortiz isn't too far away either and I'd be surprised if theres much upside left for Guerrero as well.

Theres only really Alvarez whose career could have a big impact and maybes Marquez, Cotto, Chino and pacquaio if he wins and all those could be done in a couple of years as well.

Hell three of Floyds opponents are dead (possibly more) and one has just survived being shot in the head.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Your criteria is terrible, so I'm going to make an equally terrible criteria up.
> 
> 'Floyd has had less fights than Pacquiao. If he'd had the same amount he might have the same amount of losses. Len Wickwar is greater than anyone because he had the most fights ever'.


Why is my criteria terrible if you are the best ever then why are you getting beat by unknowns?


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

dyna said:


> He looks suspiciously young for a guy supposed to be Moore's father. :huh


It's been photoshopped for Cosmopolitan magazine.

Booker is 175 years old in that picture.


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> It's been photoshopped for Cosmopolitan magazine.
> 
> Booker is 175 years old in that picture.


Oh fuck. :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> TBF with Floyd a lot of his opponents careers are done - Corrales, Castillo, Hatton, Judah, Oscar, Mosley, Mitchell, Gatti, Chavez, Hernandez, Corley, Baldomir are all retired or at the point where they are just fighting for money. Ortiz isn't too far away either and I'd be surprised if theres much upside left for Guerrero as well.
> 
> Theres only really Alvarez whose career could have a big impact and maybes Marquez, Cotto, Chino and pacquaio if he wins and all those could be done in a couple of years as well.
> 
> Hell three of Floyds opponents are dead (possibly more) and one has just survived being shot in the head.


a lot of fighters have the mentality that if they can't be the best then they retire. 
a lot of fighters after suffering an embarrassing defeat they aren't the same anymore
A lot of fighters make a final attempt at super stardom. 
A lot of fighters got that mega payday and lost the hunger. 
A lot of fighters avoid threats until the end of their career.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Why is my criteria terrible if you are the best ever then why are you getting beat by unknowns?


What?


----------



## Ivan Drago (Jun 3, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> You do know that every ATG ranking list is all opinion based right? People could say well he beat someone who is considered as the best or top3 or top10 so therefore he is.












Greatest Of All Time!


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> a lot of fighters have the mentality that if they can't be the best then they retire.
> a lot of fighters after suffering an embarrassing defeat they aren't the same anymore
> A lot of fighters make a final attempt at super stardom.
> A lot of fighters got that mega payday and lost the hunger.
> A lot of fighters avoid threats until the end of their career.


What the fuck does any of that have to do with anything. You said you couldn't judge because their careers aren't done so I showed you the majority are and you ramble about losing hunger and avoiding threats.


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## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Chatty said:


> TBF with Floyd a lot of his opponents careers are done - Corrales, Castillo, Hatton, Judah, Oscar, Mosley, Mitchell, Gatti, Chavez, Hernandez, Corley, Baldomir are all retired or at the point where they are just fighting for money. Ortiz isn't too far away either and I'd be surprised if theres much upside left for Guerrero as well.
> 
> Theres only really Alvarez whose career could have a big impact and maybes Marquez, Cotto, Chino and pacquaio if he wins and all those could be done in a couple of years as well.
> 
> Hell three of Floyds opponents are dead (possibly more) and one has just survived being shot in the head.


Correct me if I'm wrong mate, that's Chico, Genaro and Arturo right? So if you fought Floyd and your name ends in O you will die.


----------



## Leftsmash (Oct 22, 2012)

Bloody hell Tilang, when do you learn that these threads are always going to go one way for you.


----------



## Theron (May 17, 2013)

I feel like this thread and all of us are like that brazilian/black dude or Deontay Wilder and tliang is Charlie Z.

He'll call timeout and say well do this another time then come back next week and say how he schooled all of us. This is mental sickness (or the biggest Floyd joyboy crush theres ever been)

1:55 is this thread summed up


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong mate, that's Chico, Genaro and Arturo right? So if you fought Floyd and your name ends in O you will die.


Yep, sucks for Chino, Castillo and Pacquaio.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> What the fuck does any of that have to do with anything. You said you couldn't judge because their careers aren't done so I showed you the majority are and you ramble about losing hunger and avoiding threats.


Didn't i already said that corrales falls short? I think Oscar, Shane, JMM can be compared with the Fab 4. They may not be as popular but they got the same type of achievements as the fab4. Fought their popular rivals in tito, bhop, shane, Floyd and blah blah, and Same with Shane and Same with JMM.


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## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Yep, sucks for Chino, Castillo and Pacquaio.


Oh shit. Cancel that goddamn fight!


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Leftsmash said:


> Bloody hell Tilang, when do you learn that these threads are always going to go one way for you.


Oh i forgot that i am the ONLY who thinks this way. I mean fighters/trainers never throw Floyd's name among the best.
How silly of me.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Theron said:


> I feel like this thread and all of us are like that brazilian/black dude or Deontay Wilder and tliang is Charlie Z.
> 
> He'll call timeout and say well do this another time then come back next week and say how he schooled all of us. This is mental sickness (or the biggest Floyd joyboy crush theres ever been)
> 
> 1:55 is this thread summed up


Yeah man i'm a fraud like Charlie Z bc i can't back anything up. i'm a compulsive liar.


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## Leftsmash (Oct 22, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Oh i forgot that i am the ONLY who thinks this way. I mean fighters/trainers never throw Floyd's name among the best.
> How silly of me.


Well if they were asked if he was the best current boxer today then that would carry a lot more weight.


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Oh i forgot that i am the ONLY who thinks this way. I mean fighters/trainers never throw Floyd's name among the best.
> How silly of me.


I thought we got past this man??? with the other post I made about bias and fighters knowledge etc

Historians study the sport and its history, fighters often cant be objective, have an ego and havnt studied the entire history.

Example, Tommy Hearns list

1: Muhammad Ali
2: Joe Frazier

Must of watched their fights growing up

3: Thomas Hearns

Himself ofcourse, the Ali Frazier fights must have been a big deal to him when he grew up, idolizes them and cant view himself better than them even with his ego

4: Roberto Duran

Probably cause of how he blasted Duran out so impressively while Duran beat Leonard making the win that much better to him

5: Wilfred Benitez

Beat Wilfredo so of course hell be above Leonard who actually beat Hearns

6: Sugar Ray Leonard
7: Mike Tyson
8: Floyd Mayweather
9: George Foreman

10: Marvin Hagler

Lost to him so hes gotta be below the guys he did beat too.

See that, nobody on there that was around before his lifetime or before he could have watched them on tv, mostly guys that he fought and other very famous boxers he woulda seen when growing up or after his career.

Ask him about Greb, Langford, Benny Leonard, McFarland and id bet hed say "huh? who?"

Thats why historians should be believed over fighters, historians are historians and try to be unbias looking at the facts/whats available and the entire history of the sport, people often seem to think "hey theyre world class fighters how can historians be believed over them?"

Well cause most of the time fighters are just that, theyre fighters and not historians, a lot dont even watch heaps of boxing or even like the sport that much. I doubt most could name 10 boxers from before their generation and list their best wins.

Believing historians over boxers isnt crazy, or an ego trip for historians thinking theyre better, its smart, believing un bias people whove researched the entire history of the sport and know what theyre talking about... Damn crazy

And you still havnt gotten back on this one.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Oh shit. Cancel that goddamn fight!


Melo, Arroyo, Juuko and Cuello are all good though. Maybes it only applies to Americans with Latin/foreign herritage.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Leftsmash said:


> Well if they were asked if he was the best current boxer today then that would carry a lot more weight.


Bottomline is that Floyd got plenty of angles where he can be considered.

His longevity The fact that he remained unbeaten for damn near 20 years
His resume
num1 p4p fighter for 10 years.
His stats is pretty ridiculous. He pitched a shut out against p4p3 guy and got hit by 11%.
Still trained like he have nothing
And still beaten guys in their prime when he is in his twilight part of career.


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## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Melo, Arroyo, Juuko and Cuello are all good though. Maybes it only applies to Americans with Latin/foreign herritage.


That gave me some relief. :lol:

Wait, does Famoso count?


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Theron said:


> I thought we got past this man??? with the other post I made about bias and fighters knowledge etc
> 
> Historians study the sport and its history, fighters often cant be objective, have an ego and havnt studied the entire history.
> 
> ...


That's what you think. boxers recognize talent and ability to say that they hold no weight is just pure ignorant.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Oh i forgot that i am the ONLY who thinks this way. I mean fighters/trainers never throw Floyd's name among the best.
> How silly of me.


Earlier on in this thread you said about people who just believe what others have told them.

You're doing exactly the same.

Mong.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Earlier on in this thread you said about people who just believe what others have told them.
> 
> You're doing exactly the same.
> 
> Mong.


Oh really as if i haven't been saying that Floyd is damn near the best for years. I said it 7 years before Bhop.

Stupid bitch.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

@Flea Man,

Just because you are a closed minded asshole, and full of yourself. If someone doesn't agree with you, you wish someone to die repeatedly. Grow the fuck up.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

sugarshane_24 said:


> That gave me some relief. :lol:
> 
> Wait, does Famoso count?


Yeah he's American with Salvadorian herritage.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> @Flea Man,
> 
> Just because you are a closed minded asshole, and full of yourself. If someone doesn't agree with you, you wish someone to die repeatedly. Grow the fuck up.


I don't have a closed mind. I debate freely with many.

I don't want you to die because I disagree with you. I want you to die because you offer nothing to society and you have no degree of intelligence whatsoever.

This is a boxing forum. You add nothing to discussions (other than some small comedic value). You have no knowledge to share. You present your ideas badly.

Just fuck off and die.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> I don't have a closed mind. I debate freely with many.
> 
> I don't want you to die because I disagree with you. I want you to die because you offer nothing to society and you have no degree of intelligence whatsoever.
> 
> ...


You just prove my point.


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## Leftsmash (Oct 22, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Bottomline is that Floyd got plenty of angles where he can be considered.
> 
> His longevity The fact that he remained unbeaten for damn near 20 years
> His resume
> ...


It's late here... but your coming off too simplistic here. Considered.... well I don't think we need to consider given we already know He's ATG worthy as it is right now. He can be considered ...but "bottom line" is he isn't and I can't really be fucked going further.
@Capaedia you've been quiet lately even during the build up, where you at on the talk with Garcia and Peterson.:ibutt


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> You just prove my point.


Not at all. And yet you've been pulled up for contradicting yourself a few times in this thread alone. Why don't you respond to those posts?

Kill yourself.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Not at all. And yet you've been pulled up for contradicting yourself a few times in this thread alone. Why don't you respond to those posts?
> 
> Kill yourself.


i don't doubt it but i try not to.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

In my dream flomos sing a song of love for uncle Rog and Floyd
The ring is huge and gloves are big and trash-talk is the language of the world
Then I wake and all I see is a world full of people in need

Tell me why (why) does it have to be like this?
Tell me why (why) is there something I have missed?
Tell me why (why) cos I don't understand.
Why so many deny TBE and we don't give a helping hand.
Tell me why?


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Not at all. And yet you've been pulled up for contradicting yourself a few times in this thread alone. Why don't you respond to those posts?
> 
> Kill yourself.


Lol youre one mental little fella


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Lol youre one mental little fella


At least I don't think I'm of another race. Homie.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

You guys are crazy. Tliang only needs two rounds of a fighter to know how great he is, he says that himself. Only great minds can do that. He doesn't waste time watching hundreds of rounds ore reading about greats to gather that understanding. Impressive!!


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Take each of the fab 4 wins away from each other and they're still probably candidates for All time Greatness.
> 
> Floyd hasn't even fought his only contemporary rival yet. Please.


Floyd is greater than Hagler and Hearns


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Mal said:


> You guys are crazy. Tliang only needs two rounds of a fighter to know how great he is, he says that himself. Only great minds can do that. He doesn't waste time watching hundreds of rounds ore reading about greats to gather that understanding. Impressive!!


What can i say? i'm good at what i do.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Floyd is greater than Hagler and Hearns


:lol:


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## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

The problem is all of them except SRL, sound salty as hell when talking about Floyd. They know he's making allot of bank and only now at 38 is he finally facing his ATG Rival at the tail end of his career UNDEFEATED. Back then to make the biggest most lucrative fights you had to fight the best, now not so much and Floyd knows this and exploited this to the max reasons as to why SRL thinks him and Floyd are similar this way. :lol:


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Floyd is greater than Hagler and Hearns


I _might_ give you Hagler. Maybe. I'll think about it.

But Hearns? How?

Benitez is better than either Castillo or Corrales, and anyone else on Floyd's resume.
So is Leonard (the rematch robbery). Cotto and Hatton don't compare.
Past it Duran is better than past it Oscar, especially given the fashion in which he dispatched him, even if there was a size advantage.
I'd also put Virgil Hill as a greater weight jumping feat than beating up big boy Canelo.

Going down each tier of their best wins I just don't see it. Then if you want to go to in-ring ability as a supplemental criteria, it ends up being even at BEST for Floyd (a great IQ vs a very good IQ and Hearns trumping Floyd in every physical aspect, and at worst matching Floyd for versatility and toolbox). Floyd's got longevity but beating up Maidana at 37 sure as hell isn't outweighing the aforementioned factors.

What do others think?
@Flea Man don't stop now.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

So you're calling him TBE when hes got his toughest fight coming up why not wait til after he wins to make it


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## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

This is the worst thread of the century. And since internet is relatively new in terms of century's, it is the worst thread of all time.


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## Slick Ric (Apr 7, 2015)

Theron said:


> Youre comparing Floyds rivals to the Fab 4s fights with eachother and saying Floyds better cause he dispatched his "rivals" easier and therefor cause it wasnt as close as with the Fab 4 it makes us underrate Floyds opponents.. and that his opponents are on the level of the Fab 4 and Floyds just that much better than the Fab 4 and thats why he took out his opponents who are on the same level as Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Duran easier than they could deal with eachother...
> 
> Do you see how stupid that is? Can you not see that Floyds opponents are not as good as the Fab 4 (and nobody other than you thinks they are) and thats why hes dispatching guys, rather than them being as good as the Fab 4 and Floyd just being much better than the Fab 4... Only you can distort it that much and see it that way. _And then say that other people dont know shit about boxing_
> 
> ...


:happy:happy:happy


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> But Hearns? How?


Hearns got more quality wins on his resume.

Forgotten fighter like the Pumper, Munchillo, Andries, DeWitt, etc are easily on par with what is a serious part Floyd's resume - Gatti, Baldo, faded Mosley, Maidana, etc.
Bigger wins are not even close.

However, resume comparisons are boring and nerdy - H2H is where it's at.

Floyd's main claim to fame is the SF supremacy - the problem is it sounds better than it actually is.
It's a junior division with a few great fighters.
Much harder to establish yourself as the best at welter or middle.

Regarding H2H.

Floyd is much more reliable but more predictable - which comes from him being the more rounded, disciplined, drilled to perfection fighter with no glaring flaws.
He ain't gonna suffer an unexpected loss a la Barkley - but he isn't gonna surprise you with an uncharacteristic performance that would result in an upset win, say over Golovkin or Martinez.

Hearns' highs are higher, lows are lower - which comes from him being a flawed but exceptional in some areas fighter.

It all boils to what do you prefer more.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Floyd is greater than Hagler and Hearns


not really, especially not hearns


----------



## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Floyd is greater than Hagler and Hearns


:deal


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## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Retarded, piece of shit thread.


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## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> So who else is in the top 30? Assuming you're confident that Pac and Floyd are this high, I assume you've done your research and are qualified to make such a comparison.


Wanna tango? I think I've seen you make a list before, post yours here's my top 40. I must admit it got a lot harder the further down the list you go.

Sugar Ray Robinson
Henry Armstrong
Joe Louis
Muhammad Ali
Ezzard Charles
Harry Greb
Sam Langford
Archie Moore
Roberto Duran
Willie Pep
Young Corbett III
Jimmy McLarnin
Benny Leonard
Carlos Monzon
Tony Canzoneri
Bernard Hopkins
Rocky Marciano*
Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Manny Pacquiao*
Joe Gans
Marvin Hagler
Carlos Ortiz
Barney Ross
Ray Leonard
Mickey Walker
Billy Conn
Pernell Whitaker
Jose Napoles
Julio Cesar Chavez
Floyd Patterson
Dick Tiger
Jimmy Bivins
Evander Holyfield
Thomas Hearns
Alexis Arguello
Emile Griffith
Kid Gavilan
Roy Jones, Jr.
Gene Tunney
Larry Holmes


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

You got Hagler too high @megavolt . He's not greater than Leonard


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## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> You got Hagler too high @megavolt . He's not greater than Leonard


Honestly I believe he is. I thought Hagler won the fight btw. Hagler is also in contention for the greatest MW of all time, and MW is one of the "major" divisions

I'll also go out on a limb and say who ever wins this fight, if they do it solidly (Wide UD or stoppage), I'd put em near Duran.


----------



## Leftsmash (Oct 22, 2012)

megavolt said:


> Honestly I believe he is. I thought Hagler won the fight btw. Hagler is also in contention for the greatest MW of all time, and MW is one of the "major" divisions
> 
> I'll also go out on a limb and say who ever wins this fight, if they do it solidly (Wide UD or stoppage), I'd put em near Duran.


I like the list but I'd also say Monzon is pretty high. No doubt about his longevity and dominance but what strikes me is him never having beat a "great true MW" IMO.


----------



## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Leftsmash said:


> I like the list but I'd also say Monzon is pretty high. No doubt about his longevity and dominance but what strikes me is him never having beat a "great MW" IMO.


I consider Benvenutti as one. Imo that's enough.


----------



## Leftsmash (Oct 22, 2012)

sugarshane_24 said:


> I consider Benvenutti as one. Imo that's enough.


I'm only comfortable with HOF worthy for him but I have no problem with him being considered an ATG.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Hagler is the goat MW... but having said that, i always felt monzon had the style to give hagler hell.


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## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

Leftsmash said:


> I like the list but I'd also say Monzon is pretty high. No doubt about his longevity and dominance but what strikes me is him never having beat a "great true MW" IMO.


Im actually pretty flexible on Monzon; I had him pegged as the goat MW but the 60s was a rather slow period for boxing, so having him lower is justifiable but you can only be ranked so low all time while being the (near)goat at a weight



tommygun711 said:


> Hagler is the goat MW... but having said that, i always felt monzon had the style to give hagler hell.


I think that's arguable considering that Leonard forced a controversial decision and was off for like 5 years, and a former lightweight Duran (while one of the best ever) was able to make it a very close one


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Hearns got more quality wins on his resume.
> 
> Forgotten fighter like the Pumper, Munchillo, Andries, DeWitt, etc are easily on par with what is a serious part Floyd's resume - Gatti, Baldo, faded Mosley, Maidana, etc.
> Bigger wins are not even close.
> ...


I dig this post. However i think Floyd's WW's reign surpassed his SFW accolades. Floyd has been a WW for more than half his career and fought a lot of the boxing's top names there as well defended his titles a lot more. He settled there while giving people a sense of he is just fishing for money fights at junior middleweight. I was impressed by his decision to take on Canelo who is a very tough and dangerous fight for any WW to take on. Whether Canelo is hyped up or not... there wasn't that many WWs really want to test if Canelo is legit or not.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

megavolt said:


> Wanna tango? I think I've seen you make a list before, post yours here's my top 40. I must admit it got a lot harder the further down the list you go.
> 
> Sugar Ray Robinson
> Henry Armstrong
> ...


Um...what the fuck is this? Marciano, Mayweather and Pacquiao above Gans, Whitaker and Gavilan? And I know you don't know fuck all a out YCIII to have him that high (I actually convinced McGrain that YCIII was worthy of a place in his top 100, he felt he was too high in the 60's)

It really infuriates me to see another person overrating Monzon.

Shit list.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

megavolt said:


> Im actually pretty flexible on Monzon; I had him pegged as the goat MW but the 60s was a rather slow period for boxing, so having him lower is justifiable but you can only be ranked so low all time while being the (near)goat at a weight
> 
> I think that's arguable considering that Leonard forced a controversial decision and was off for like 5 years, and a former lightweight Duran (while one of the best ever) was able to make it a very close one


The 60s was slow? WTF?! The 60's was one of the greatest eras in boxing history you plank! Nevermind that Monzon dominated the 70'S!

You don't have a fucking clue, so shut the fuck up and stop trying to act like your opinion means more than a wet fart on a hot day.

'Wanna tango'? You really don't son. You're all over the shop.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Leftsmash said:


> I like the list but I'd also say Monzon is pretty high. No doubt about his longevity and dominance but what strikes me is him never having beat a "great true MW" IMO.


Monzon is horribly overrated. He fought has beens, never weres, and the best challenge of his career was crippled by the time Monzon had the bottle to face him.

Monzon also ran from a piss test after battering a tiny natural lightweight.

Nowhere near top 50 ATG.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Hearns only beat Pipino because he had the right shoes for the slippery canvas.
Earnie Shavers fought on the undercard against Cobb and was constantly slipping away, couldn't set his feet. Same for Cuevas


----------



## coldfire (Mar 5, 2015)

He is not TBE. He is outside top 10.


----------



## Capaedia (Jun 6, 2013)

Leftsmash said:


> @*Capaedia* you've been quiet lately even during the build up, where you at on the talk with Garcia and Peterson.:ibutt


Crazy as it is, I wasn't aware that they were fighting until a few days ago. Been without internet for a month and just haven't had as much time with my crazy new hours at my job.

Garcia's got this :bbb


----------



## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> The 60s was slow? WTF?! The 60's was one of the greatest eras in boxing history you plank! Nevermind that Monzon dominated the 70'S!
> 
> You don't have a fucking clue, so shut the fuck up and stop trying to act like your opinion means more than a wet fart on a hot day.
> 
> 'Wanna tango'? You really don't son. You're all over the shop.


You sound like a bitch on her period. Changed my mind about discussing anything with your dumbass because looks like you'd start crying about every little thing like a lil whiny hoe.

Talk about "overrating Monzon" when he was one of the best to come out of the 60s, and then you go on to say the 60s were great. Who the fuck uses the word "plank" to insult someone atsch

Go make your "goodbye" thread again like a lil bitch boy writing letters :rofl ******


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

megavolt said:


> You sound like a bitch on her period. Changed my mind about discussing anything with your dumbass because looks like you'd start crying about every little thing like a lil whiny hoe.
> 
> Talk about "overrating Monzon" when he was one of the best to come out of the 60s, and then you go on to say the 60s were great. Who the fuck uses the word "plank" to insult someone atsch
> 
> Go make your "goodbye" thread again like a lil bitch boy writing letters :rofl ******


Monzon was at his best IN THE 70'S! Which of the notable 60's middleweights did he fight _in the 60's?_

You said the 60's was 'pretty slow'. Couldn't be more wrong!

I'm not annoyed, or angry, I just think it's hilarious how little of a clue you have. And you want to debate with me?! :lol:

You are a spastic.


----------



## Leftsmash (Oct 22, 2012)

Capaedia said:


> Crazy as it is, I wasn't aware that they were fighting until a few days ago. Been without internet for a month and just haven't had as much time with my crazy new hours at my job.
> 
> Garcia's got this :bbb


:lol: You really have been living under a rock. Ah well better late than never.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

I still can't get over 'the 60s were a slow period for boxing' :rofl Literally one of the most spasticated things anyone has ever said relating to boxing.


----------



## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> It really *infuriates *me to see another person overrating Monzon.





Flea Man said:


> *I'm not annoyed, or angry,* I just think it's hilarious how little of a clue you have.


shut the fuck up stupid ass :lol: you're like those kids who try to act tough but get pussywhipped in the end, trying to be pen pals with forum posters :rofl atsch

Currently Boxrec has a database of a little over 100k bouts for the '60s and '70s each, compared to 250k average for the 20s-40s. The 2000s are at about 185k, with the 2010s on their way to 2010k bouts.

But go ahead, so far you haven't said shit supporting the strength of an era except for emoticons and "couldn't be more wrong!" smfh get the fuck outta here bitchface


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

megavolt said:


> shut the fuck up stupid ass :lol: you're like those kids who try to act tough but get pussywhipped in the end, trying to be pen pals with forum posters :rofl atsch
> 
> Currently Boxrec has a database of a little over 100k bouts for the '60s and '70s each, compared to 250k average for the 20s-40s. The 2000s are at about 185k, with the 2010s on their way to 2010k bouts.
> 
> But go ahead, so far you haven't said shit supporting the strength of an era except for emoticons and "couldn't be more wrong!" smfh get the fuck outta here bitchface


Oh, dear. This is literally the worst line of debate I've ever seen! The 60's were stacked with talent (particularly welter through to middleweight) with numerous ATG fighters and fights. But yeah, look at how many bouts boxrec has.

When have I ever bottled it in an argument on here?

If you just admit you're clueless when it comes to boxing history then we can be done here.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

megavolt said:


> trying to be pen pals with forum posters :rofl atsche


Also WTF does this mean? Tosser.


----------



## nufc_jay (Jun 4, 2012)

Floyd isn't in the Top 25 of atg fighters ffs :lol:


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Shit list.


The list is all over the place if we're talking your usual cookie-cutter list.

Like a mix of personal preferences, conventional historical stuff and modern influences.

But then again what list isn't.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

megavolt said:


> I think that's arguable considering that Leonard forced a controversial decision and was off for like 5 years, and a former lightweight Duran (while one of the best ever) was able to make it a very close one


Well leonard fought an equally past prime, slow as shit version of hagler. Duran had his moments, yes, but he still lost pretty clearly. I wouldnt really give duran more than 5 rounds in that fight.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> :lol:


Laugh it up. Give me Mayweather's skillset and resume vs Hearns' and Hag's every day of the week.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I _might_ give you Hagler. Maybe. I'll think about it.
> 
> But Hearns? How?
> 
> ...


*Mayweather -* 
Castillo
Pacquiao
Corrales
Delahoya
Canelo
Mosley
Cotto
Hatton
Hernandez
Manfredy
Judah
Chavez

*Hearns - *
Duran
Cuevas
Hill
Leonard (unofficially)
Shields
Shuler

Got sparked by Barkley atsch Imagine Floyd getting sparked by Maidana. I don't see it.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

turbotime said:


> *Mayweather -*
> Castillo
> Pacquiao
> Corrales
> ...


You're not too biased! Either that or you have no fucking clue omitting a fair few good Hearns wins. Benitez for one!

Comparing Maidana to Duran? I used to think you were a good poster, but obviously you're a fucking moron.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> *Mayweather -*
> Castillo
> Pacquiao
> Corrales
> ...


I laid it out in a much more directly comparative fashion. Go down every tier of their best wins (you left out Benitez), Hearns has the superior ones. His top 2 are better than Floyd's top 2, his next 2 are better than Floyd's next 2, etc. And I'm not counting Pacquiao until it actually happens. As it stands, Hearns has the better wins and is the superior H2H fighter.

He didn't get sparked by someone like Barkley but he practically drew with Maidana. Imagine Hearns getting bullied by Maidana. You can't.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> *Mayweather -*
> Castillo
> Pacquiao
> Corrales
> ...


Yes, Mayweather has a lot of depth, this is established already. But Hearns has the greater top wins. Duran, Hill, Leonard, Benitez, those 4 wins are better than Mosley, DLH, Marquez, or Cotto. btw Hearns has way more than what you are listing.

Hearns-

Duran,
Cuevas
Benitez
Leonard
Shields
Schuler
Singletary
Minchillo
Sutherland
Andries
Curry
DeWitt
Roldan
Olajide

Really he has the better top wins and he has just as much depth if you are counting contenders.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> You're not too biased! Either that or you have no fucking clue omitting a fair few good Hearns wins. Benitez for one!
> 
> Comparing Maidana to Duran? I used to think you were a good poster, but obviously you're a fucking moron.


I'm pretty sure turbo left Benitez out by mistake. Still Hearn got the better names but not as many good opponents overall than Floyd and i'm not impressed with guys who towers over everyone beating up on smaller men. Big deal, he suppose to.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Yes, Mayweather has a lot of depth, this is established already. But Hearns has the greater top wins. Duran, Hill, Leonard, Benitez, those 4 wins are better than Mosley, DLH, Marquez, or Cotto. btw Hearns has way more than what you are listing.
> 
> Hearns-
> 
> ...


Floyd fought more champs. Floyd > Hearns in name opponents while Hearns > Floyd with the better singular win. Again, i'm not impressed by a guy with a heavyweight wingspan beating smaller guys like he was suppose to, if you are half way decent anyways.

Only person from the fab4 that surpasses Floyd resume wise is SRL and even that is getting close.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Floyd fought more champs. Floyd > Hearns in name opponents while Hearns > Floyd with the better singular win. Again, i'm not impressed by a guy with a heavyweight wingspan beating smaller guys like he was suppose to, if you are half way decent anyways.
> 
> Only person from the fab4 that surpasses Floyd resume wise is SRL and even that is getting close.


You overrate the fuck out of Floyd's resume, everyone can see that but you. Hearns wins over Benitez, Cuevas, Leonard (unofficially), and Duran are better than any 4 Floyd wins.

What makes Floyd a great to me is his obvious H2H ability, his dominance and longevity, and that 0. His resume has never really been THE BEST RESUME EVER, not even close. Hearns has a lot of depth to his own resume tbh.

Hearns may have had a HW wingspan but he was a natural welter/light middle.. again you overlook hearns' ability


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> You overrate the fuck out of Floyd's resume, everyone can see that but you. Hearns wins over Benitez, Cuevas, Leonard (unofficially), and Duran are better than any 4 Floyd wins.
> 
> What makes Floyd a great to me is his obvious H2H ability, his dominance and longevity, and that 0. His resume has never really been THE BEST RESUME EVER, not even close. Hearns has a lot of depth to his own resume tbh.
> 
> Hearns may have had a HW wingspan but he was a natural welter/light middle.. again you overlook hearns' ability


Benitez is Hearns best win imo. Duran? not so much. SRL unoffical OK. but outside of that i'm not too impressed. Floyd fought 4 times more champions and Floyd's Outside of those three Hearn got nothing on Floyd. And JMM is arguably just as great as Benitez. Hearns beating Duran at 154 which is not even Duran best weight is just as sorry as Floyd beating Oscar out of prime.

As soon as Hearns fought people his size, he got KTFO. So exactly how is he impressive?


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

The Fab4
You got Duran who main claim to fame is SRL, loses to the other Fab 4.
You got Hagler who never moved up in weight for tougher challenges. And his best win are blown ups.
You got Hearns who is two divisions bigger than his opponents and fighting blown ups.

SRL is the only person who is can compete with Floyd.

I mean it is no wonder that many peoples' ATG list already have Floyd ahead of the fab4. Hype can only go so far. People will eventually catch on.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> The Fab4
> You got Duran who main claim to fame is SRL, loses to the other Fab 4.
> You got Hagler who never moved up in weight for tougher challenges. And his best win are blown ups.
> You got Hearns who is two divisions bigger than his opponents and fighting blown ups.
> ...


Your defo trolling now. Youve done a good job of winding the forum up tbf


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Your defo trolling now. Youve done a good job of winding the forum up tbf


hahahaha. I do want to wind the forum up but really i've said the same thing for years. Countless debates about the FAB4 and upon research and record studying/footage studying. I honestly think that only SRL is above, on par, or a little less than Floyd. The others is no contest really.


----------



## knowimuch (May 9, 2014)

tliang1000 said:


> The Fab4
> You got Duran who main claim to fame is SRL, loses to the other Fab 4.
> You got Hagler who never moved up in weight for tougher challenges. And his best win are blown ups.
> You got Hearns who is two divisions bigger than his opponents and fighting blown ups.
> ...


Yup, Duran only beat Leonard, he definitly didn't fight Palimino, Viruet, DeJesus, Marcel and Buchanan


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

knowimuch said:


> Yup, Duran only beat Leonard, he definitly didn't fight Palimino, Viruet, DeJesus, Marcel and Buchanan


and those four surpasses Henderaz, Corrales, Castillo, Gatti, Judah, Oscar, Hatton, Shane, JMM, Cotto, and Canelo??

And Duran got beat by 5'4 Dejesus.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Beside the SRL upset... What does Duran have that can justify that he is higher than Floyd?
He lost to Hagler, lost to SRL on rematches, lost camacho, KTFO by hearns, lost to vinny twice, lost to william joppy and C level fighters.

He is not as dedicated as Floyd. Doesn't train harder than Floyd, doesn't have Floyd Longevity, he is not more skillled, Duran didn't beat more big names like Floyd.

How is Duran better. Hearns and Haglers were big dudes fighting little dudes and even that didn't fight as many champs as Floyd. 

Oh but they have each other so nothing else matters.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> The Fab4
> You got Duran who main claim to fame is SRL, loses to the other Fab 4.
> You got Hagler who never moved up in weight for tougher challenges. And his best win are blown ups.
> You got Hearns who is two divisions bigger than his opponents and fighting blown ups.
> ...


I told you to list each one's best wins outside of each other and argue against them. Name names. Name their best wins outside of each other and specify why they are worse than Floyd's. The fact you keep suggesting they are only great for fighting each other just shows how fucking ignorant you are. It's fucking laughable.

The burden is on YOU, because you are making the ridiculous claim that disagrees with the consensus formed by knowledgeable people.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I told you to list each one's best wins outside of each other and argue against them. Name names. Name their best wins outside of each other and specify why they are worse than Floyd's. The fact you keep suggesting they are only great for fighting each other just shows how fucking ignorant you are. It's fucking laughable.
> 
> The burden is on YOU, because you are making the ridiculous claim that disagrees with the consensus formed by knowledgeable people.


I made my point already. I've listed my reasons. 
I'm about the only few that have any common sense around here.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Benitez is Hearns best win imo. Duran? not so much. SRL unoffical OK. but outside of that i'm not too impressed. Floyd fought 4 times more champions and Floyd's Outside of those three Hearn got nothing on Floyd. And JMM is arguably just as great as Benitez. Hearns beating Duran at 154 which is not even Duran best weight is just as sorry as Floyd beating Oscar out of prime.
> 
> As soon as Hearns fought people his size, he got KTFO. So exactly how is he impressive?


JMM arguably as great as Benitez???!! :rofl:lol:atsch

And I'm a huge Marqueztard


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> JMM arguably as great as Benitez???!! :rofl:lol:atsch
> 
> And I'm a huge Marqueztard


You don't know shit. Benitez took part of 10 title bouts. 
His best win is a 154lb Duran followed by this bullshit.


1990-09-18Scott Papasodora*15*-*6*-*1*

Convention Centre, Winnipeg, Manitoba, CanadaLUD1010 referee: Mike Pestrak | judge: Robert Tapper | judge: Johnny Roberts | judge: Ed St. Mars  1990-08-24Sam Wilson*1*-*5*-*1*

Regency Hotel, Denver, Colorado, USAWUD1010 98-91 | 99-90 | 96-93  1990-05-23Pat Lawlor*13*-*1*-*0*

Tucson, Arizona, USALPTS10101990-03-08Ariel Conde*0*-*10*-*0*

Americana Motel, Phoenix, Arizona, USAWKO7101986-11-28Carlos Maria del Valle Herrera*54*-*9*-*0*

Salta, Salta, ArgentinaLTKO7101986-09-17Harry Daniels*14*-*3*-*1*

5th Regiment Armory, Baltimore, Maryland, USAWUD1010 referee: Larry Barrett | judge: Harry Cecchini 98-95 | judge: Frank Kelly 98-95 | judge: Tom Kelly 97-95  1986-07-01Paul Whittaker*19*-*0*-*0*

Superdome, New Orleans, Louisiana, USAWUD1010 referee: Lucien Joubert 6-4 | judge: Kenny Snow 5-4 | judge: Paul Sita 6-3  1986-02-15Matthew Hilton*19*-*0*-*0*

Paul Sauve Arena, Montreal, Quebec, CanadaLKO910 time: 2:59 | referee: Guy Jutras | judge: Jean Lapointe | judge: Lise Lavallee | judge: Jean-Claude Theroux  1985-08-21Kevin Moley*22*-*0*-*0*

Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USAWUD1010 referee: Joe Cortez | judge: George DeGabriel 8-2 | judge: Bernie Friedkin 7-3 | judge: Simon Ramos 7-3  1985-07-06Danny Chapman*15*-*17*-*0*

Convention Center, Washington, District of Columbia, USAWRTD710 time: 3:00 | referee: Milton Greene 
In the sixth round Chapman received a standing 8-count. 1985-03-30Mauricio Bravo*26*-*3*-*1*

Concorde Boxing Arena, Oranjestad, ArubaWTKO2101984-07-14Davey Moore*13*-*1*-*0*

Stade Louis II, Fontvieille, MonacoLTKO210 time: 1:18 | referee: Gerlando Lucia | judge: Angelo Poletti | judge: Mario Puloni 
Benitez down in rd 1 & standing 8-count in rd 2. Breaks his ankle following knockdown. 1984-02-11Stacy McSwain*8*-*7*-*1*

Joe Louis Arena, Detroit, Michigan, USAWUD1010 referee: Dale Grable | 98-92 | 99-91 | 99-91  1983-07-16Mustafa Hamsho*36*-*2*-*2*

Dunes Hotel, Las Vegas, Nevada, USALUD1212 referee: Davey Pearl | judge: Lou Tabat 109-118 | judge: Chuck Minker 111-118 | judge: Dalby Shirley 111-117  1983-05-18Tony Cerda*14*-*2*-*4*

Dunes Hotel & Casino, Outdoor Arena, Las Vegas, Nevada, USAWUD10101982-12-03Thomas Hearns*35*-*1*-*0*

Superdome, New Orleans, Louisiana, USALMD1515 referee: Octavio Meyran | judge: Dick Young 137-146 | judge: Tony Castellano 139-144 | judge: Lou Filippo 142-142 
WBC World super welterweight title 1982-01-30Roberto Duran*74*-*2*-*0*

Caesars Palace, Las Vegas, Nevada, USAWUD1515
and you going to tell me that JMM can't match him?

Paciquao is way better fighter than Duran and JMM arguably won all 4 times.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

This is Marquez record compare to "Benitez"


 2014-05-17Mike Alvarado*34*-*2*-*0*

Forum, Inglewood, California, USAWUD1212  referee: Pat Russell | judge: Robert Byrd 119-108 | judge: Max DeLuca 117-109 | judge: Julie Lederman 117-109 
vacant WBO International welterweight title
Alvarado down in round eight, Marquez down in round nine
 2013-10-12Timothy Bradley Jr*30*-*0*-*0*

Thomas & Mack Center, Las Vegas, Nevada, USALSD1212 referee: Robert Byrd | judge: Robert Hoyle 113-115 | judge: Patricia Morse Jarman 112-116 | judge: Glenn Feldman 115-113 
WBO World welterweight title (supervisor: Francisco Valcarcel)
 2012-12-08Manny Pacquiao*54*-*4*-*2*

MGM Grand, Grand Garden Arena, Las Vegas, Nevada, USAWKO612 time: 2:59 | referee: Kenny Bayless | judge: Adalaide Byrd 46-47 | judge: Steve Weisfeld 46-47 | judge: John Keane 46-47 
Pacquiao down in rd 3 & 6; Marquez down in rd 5
 2012-04-14Serhiy Fedchenko*30*-*1*-*0*

Arena Ciudad de Mexico, Mexico City, Distrito Federal, MexicoWUD1212 referee: Benjy Esteves Jr. | judge: Steve Weisfeld 118-110 | judge: Alejandro Lopez Cid 118-110 | judge: Rafael Isenia 119-109 
interim WBO World super lightweight title (supervisor: Francisco Valcarcel)
 2011-11-12Manny Pacquiao*53*-*3*-*2*

MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada, USALMD1212 referee: Tony Weeks | judge: Dave Moretti 113-115 | judge: Robert Hoyle 114-114 | judge: Glenn Trowbridge 112-116 
WBO World welterweight title (supervisor: Francisco Valcarcel)
Contracted weight: 144 lbs.
 2011-07-16Likar Ramos*24*-*3*-*0*

Plaza de Toros, Cancun, Quintana Roo, MexicoWTKO110 time: 1:46 | referee: Manolo Alcocer | judge: Isaac Barrios | judge: Marco Antonio Sandoval | judge: Luis Fitch 
Ramos down once in rd 1
 2010-11-27Michael Katsidis*27*-*2*-*0*

MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada, USAWTKO912 time: 2:14 | referee: Kenny Bayless | judge: Robert Hoyle 77-74 | judge: Adalaide Byrd 78-74 | judge: Ted Gimza 76-75 
WBA Super World lightweight title (supervisor: Mike McAleenan)
WBO World lightweight title
Marquez down in round three
 2010-07-31Juan Diaz*35*-*3*-*0*

Mandalay Bay Resort & Casino, Las Vegas, Nevada, USAWUD1212 referee: Vic Drakulich | judge: Patricia Morse Jarman 117-111 | judge: Jerry Roth 116-112 | judge: Glenn Trowbridge 118-110 
WBO World lightweight title
WBA Super World lightweight title (supervisor: Michael Welsh)
 2009-09-19Floyd Mayweather Jr*39*-*0*-*0*

MGM Grand, Grand Garden Arena, Las Vegas, Nevada, USALUD1212 referee: Tony Weeks | judge: Burt A. Clements 107-120 | judge: Dave Moretti 108-119 | judge: Bill Lerch 109-118 
Marquez down once in 2nd round
 2009-02-28Juan Diaz*34*-*1*-*0*

Toyota Center, Houston, Texas, USAWTKO912 time: 2:40 | referee: Rafael Ramos | judge: Levi Martinez 76-76 | judge: Duane Ford 75-77 | judge: Max DeLuca 77-75 
vacant WBO World lightweight title
vacant WBA Super World lightweight title (supervisor: Gilberto Jesus Mendoza)
International Boxing Organization World lightweight title
 2008-09-13Joel Casamayor*36*-*3*-*1*

MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada, USAWTKO1112 


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> I made my point already. I've listed my reasons.
> I'm about the only few that have any common sense around here.


No you haven't. You've said they didn't fight anyone but each other which is laughably untrue. So go ahead, specify their best non-Fab 4 wins and explain how they're worse than Floyd's. You don't prove an argument by repeating your foregone conclusion over and over.

How are you the only one with common sense when you haven't proven your argument, and your argument goes completely against the vast majority of historians and knowledgeable fans?


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

OH YEAH BENITEZ IS SOOOO MUCH BETTER THAN MARQUEZ :rofl


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> This is Marquez record compare to "Benitez"


You're just posting boxrec. You're not making actual arguments. You're just posting the records.

Do you realize Benitez beat one of the best Jr Welterweights of all time in Cervantes? And did it at 17, the youngest champion in boxing history?!?!

We've been through this before. "Who the fuck is Cervantes" was a phrase used to ridicule the shit out of your ignorance. Why do you continue to do this tliang? Why? Why do you make arguments about fighters you know nothing about? Why are you that desperate to convince people that Floyd is the best ever when you have no good fucking reason to believe it yourself?!?!


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> No you haven't. You've said they didn't fight anyone but each other which is laughably untrue. So go ahead, specify their best non-Fab 4 wins and explain how they're worse than Floyd's. You don't prove an argument by repeating your foregone conclusion over and over.
> 
> How are you the only one with common sense when you haven't proven your argument, and your argument goes completely against the vast majority of historians and knowledgeable fans?


STFU AND READ. You talking like a desperate ho. cashing in your last 1 dollar chip.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> You're just posting boxrec. You're not making actual arguments. You're just posting the records.
> 
> Do you realize Benitez beat one of the best Jr Welterweights of all time in Cervantes? And did it at 17, the youngest champion in boxing history?!?!
> 
> We've been through this before. "Who the fuck is Cervantes" was a phrase used to ridicule the shit out of your ignorance. Why do you continue to do this tliang? Why? Why do you make arguments about fighters you know nothing about? Why are you that desperate to convince people that Floyd is the best ever when you have no good fucking reason to believe it yourself?!?!


BOGO: please don't provide evidence. Let the hype live!!


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Marquez's losses compare to benitez's losses for you boxing historian wannabes.


1993-05-29Javier Duran*1*-*0*-*0*

Mexico City, Distrito Federal, MexicoLDQ1


1999-09-11Freddie Norwood*35*-*0*-*1*

Mandalay Bay Resort & Casino, Las Vegas, Nevada, USALUD1212


2006-03-04Chris John*36*-*0*-*1*

Karang Melenu Sports Hall, Tenggarong, Kutai Kartanegara, IndonesiaLUD1212


2008-03-15Manny Pacquiao*45*-*3*-*2*

Mandalay Bay Resort & Casino, Las Vegas, Nevada, USALSD1212


2009-09-19Floyd Mayweather Jr*39*-*0*-*0*

MGM Grand, Grand Garden Arena, Las Vegas, Nevada, USALUD1212


2011-11-12Manny Pacquiao*53*-*3*-*2*

MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada, USALMD1212


2013-10-12Timothy Bradley Jr*30*-*0*-*0*

Thomas & Mack Center, Las Vegas, Nevada, USALSD1212



LOOKS LIKE MARQUEZ LOSES TO MAINLY TOP ELITE FIGHTERS. EXCEPT FOR HIS DEBUT NOW LETS SO MR. BENITEZ.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

I'm actually at a loss for what to say. How can somebody be this retarded...


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

I hope you die.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Benitez's losses

1982-12-03Thomas Hearns*35*-*1*-*0*

Superdome, New Orleans, Louisiana, USALMD1515


1983-07-16Mustafa Hamsho*36*-*2*-*2*

Dunes Hotel, Las Vegas, Nevada, USALUD1212


1984-07-14Davey Moore*13*-*1*-*0*

Stade Louis II, Fontvieille, MonacoLTKO210


1986-02-15Matthew Hilton*19*-*0*-*0*

Paul Sauve Arena, Montreal, Quebec, CanadaLKO910


1986-11-28Carlos Maria del Valle Herrera*54*-*9*-*0*

Salta, Salta, ArgentinaLTKO710


1990-05-23Pat Lawlor*13*-*1*-*0*

Tucson, Arizona, USALPTS1010




1990-09-18Scott Papasodora*15*-*6*-*1*

Convention Centre, Winnipeg, Manitoba, CanadaLUD1010


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

wow... scott 15-6, pat lawlor 13-1, moore 13-1. They must be HOFer fighters whooping up on Benitez like that.

Now who was the idiot who was laughing that JMM can't be compared to Benitez?


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Wilfred is SOOOO much better than JMM THAT IS WHY HE LOSSES TO C LEVEL FIGHTERS.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chacal said:


> I hope you die.


I guess is cool to wish someone to die when you are getting your ass beat on a boxing forum.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Also of Marquez's losses.... Did he really lose the second and third pac fight? Did he really lose the chris john fight? 
Looks like he only losses to top elite fighters and some were extremely close.
While..... .Benitez is getting KTFO by c level fighters.

HMmm..... yeah u guys are right... Benitez compare to jmm is an insult


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> You don't know shit. Benitez took part of 10 title bouts.
> His best win is a 154lb Duran followed by this bullshit.
> 
> 
> ...


Now Pacquiao is a better fighter than Duran and I'm the one that don't know shit??? :rofl

Sorry kid but YOU are the that don't know shit.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> I guess is cool to wish someone to die when you are getting your ass beat on a boxing forum.


No, shut up. You really are a fucking idiot. I hope you can realise this and correct your ways, but I feel all hope is lost for you. In all the time I have spent discussing boxing I have never spoken to somebody as ill educated as you are. You are the worst poster in forum history, I may throw that around a lot but I genuinely believe this to be the case for you. You have absolutely no knowledge, you just use boxrec. You don't even look at the context of anything and it seems the most important thing to you is how many losses somebody has.

I am 100% serious in saying this. I have never spoken to somebody with as little knowledge.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chacal said:


> No, shut up. You really are a fucking idiot. I hope you can realise this and correct your ways, but I feel all hope is lost for you. In all the time I have spent discussing boxing I have never spoken to somebody as ill educated as you are. You are the worst poster in forum history, I may throw that around a lot but I genuinely believe this to be the case for you. You have absolutely no knowledge, you just use boxrec. You don't even look at the context of anything and it seems the most important thing to you is how many losses somebody has.
> 
> I am 100% serious in saying this. I have never spoken to somebody with as little knowledge.


I'm the only one here providing prove. Unless you just pulling shit from other's mouth and act like u are cool bc what ur daddy told u.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> wow... scott 15-6, pat lawlor 13-1, moore 13-1. They must be HOFer fighters whooping up on Benitez like that.
> 
> Now who was the idiot who was laughing that JMM can't be compared to Benitez?


Why aren't you addressing Benitez's resume? Why would you compare losses instead of wins, which are accomplishments? Do you get your olympic medal taken away one year if you lose the next year? Obviously not. And these are losses WAY past Benitez's best. Why are you reaching for those?



tliang1000 said:


> BOGO: please don't provide evidence. Let the hype live!!


No, I asked you to argue why their best wins outside of each other are better than Floyd's. I'm literally asking you to substantiate your argument that one set of wins is better than another. The crux of the issue. But you have no argument.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

@Zopilotee.

Oh really manny is not better than the one hit wonder Duran? Please list all the great fighters that Duran beat vs Pac's.
I'll let you find out yourself. Educate yourself.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Put Benitez in Marquez' era and goes undefeated.

Cant say the same for Marquez in Radar's era. 
But go ahead and stick to boxrec and keep Floyd's dick in your mouth.

Retard.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Why aren't you addressing Benitez's resume? Why would you compare losses instead of wins, which are accomplishments? Do you get your olympic medal taken away one year if you lose the next year? Obviously not. And these are losses WAY past Benitez's best. Why are you reaching for those?
> 
> No, I asked you to argue why their best wins outside of each other are better than Floyd's. I'm literally asking you to substantiate your argument that one set of wins is better than another. The crux of the issue. But you have no argument.


Compare the wins then bitch.
Go ahead you lazy bum. List the best wins from Benitez vs Marquez's


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> I'm the only one here providing prove.


You aren't making any arguments. You're pointing at names and not comparing wins. This is like the 4th time I'm asking you: *tell me why the fab 4's best wins outside of each other are worse than Floyd's wins. Name them and compare directly.*

Or just fucking admit you don't know what they are and you're desperately trying to prove that Floyd is better *solely* because you can't let go of that idea out of your bias.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> Put Benitez in Marquez' era and goes undefeated.
> 
> Cant say the same for Marquez in Radar's era.
> But go ahead and stick to boxrec and keep Floyd's dick in your mouth.
> ...


Oh yeah Benitez will go undefeated but loses to the likes of 

1990-09-18Scott Papasodora*15*-*6*-*1*

Convention Centre, Winnipeg, Manitoba, CanadaLUD1010


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Compare the wins then bitch.
> Go ahead you lazy bum. List the best wins from Benitez vs Marquez's


YOU compare the wins because YOU made the thread and YOU are disagreeing with the vast fucking majority. We've explained them before but you never understand it. *You are making the claim, so you provide the argument.* I'm not going to feed you information so you can pretend you already knew it. You don't know the history, you don't know the quality of their resumes, show evidence that you do or stop pretending you do.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> You aren't making any arguments. You're pointing at names and not comparing wins. This is like the 4th time I'm asking you: *tell me why the fab 4's best wins outside of each other are worse than Floyd's wins. Name them and compare directly.*
> 
> Or just fucking admit you don't know what they are and you're desperately trying to prove that Floyd is better *solely* because you can't let go of that idea out of your bias.


Can you read? Scroll up and read. Been there and done that puta


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogo and friends are such posers.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Oh yeah Benitez will go undefeated but loses to the likes of
> 
> 1990-09-18Scott Papasodora*15*-*6*-*1*
> 
> Convention Centre, Winnipeg, Manitoba, CanadaLUD1010


That was his last fight when he was fucking shot. Stop pointing to past-prime losses like they invalidate the wins you know nothing about.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Can you read? Scroll up and read. Been there and done that puta


You did not name them. Break it down.

What are Duran's best wins outside of Leonard?
What are Hagler's best wins outside of Hearns? 
What are Hearns' best wins outside of SRL2 and Duran? 
What are Leonard's best wins outside of those guys?

And most importantly, why are they worse than Floyd's wins?

I'll wait for you to provide those specific answers.



tliang1000 said:


> Bogo and friends are such posers.


Literally not a single person has agreed with you yet.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

:lol:

I think I'm losing brain cells by reading some of tilangs posts.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> That was his last fight when he was fucking shot. Stop pointing to past-prime losses like they invalidate the wins you know nothing about.


He so good but he got fucking shot. they don't make them durable and long lasting back then huh. Let's see which bum JMM loses to before he retires. JMM is already over 40 but still never lost to a 15-6.:deal


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> You did not name them. Break it down.
> 
> What are Duran's best wins outside of Leonard?
> What are Hagler's best wins outside of Hearns?
> ...


Why don't you read? I've only been talking about the fab4 for the last 5 pages.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> You did not name them. Break it down.
> 
> What are Duran's best wins outside of Leonard?
> What are Hagler's best wins outside of Hearns?
> ...


They don't need to bc i'm schooling all of you. Posers group requires backup. They always do.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

bogo, flea man spends the night at each others house and beat off to old newspaper boxing articles.

Flea Man: Yo bogo... They Say Harry Greb is a human windmill!
Bogo: whoa, i wanna suck his dick.
Flea Man: you can suck my dick
Bogo: ok, just promise me to make me look like i know what i'm talking about.


----------



## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> JMM arguably as great as Benitez???!! :rofl:lol:atsch
> 
> And I'm a huge Marqueztard


Now obviously tliang is a massive spazlord but I think there's an argument for it, Marquez has him beat on longevity and wins over different weight classes for sure. Resume wise Marquez has a deeper list of contenders. Obviously Benitez wins at WW though but Marquez started at FW ofcourse



Zopilote said:


> Put Benitez in Marquez' era and goes undefeated.
> 
> Cant say the same for Marquez in Radar's era.
> But go ahead and stick to boxrec and keep Floyd's dick in your mouth.
> ...


I think Benitez loses to Floyd and probably beats the rest clearly. Marquez in this era would be a FW, SFW, LW and maybe a LWW going in against Sanchez, Pedroza, Pryor and Arguello. Really interesting fights and I wouldn't write him off in any


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Literally not a single person has agreed with you yet.


Nobody else is that brain dead


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Powerpuncher said:


> Now obviously tliang is a massive spazlord but I think there's an argument for it, Marquez has him beat on longevity and wins over different weight classes for sure. Resume wise Marquez has a deeper list of contenders. Obviously Benitez wins at WW though but Marquez started at FW ofcourse
> 
> *I think Benitez loses to Floyd and probably beats the rest clearly. Marquez in this era would be a FW, SFW, LW and maybe a LWW going in against Sanchez, Pedroza, Pryor and Arguello. Really interesting fights and I wouldn't write him off in any*


Of course Benitez loses to Floyd, he'll lose to Pac and JMM as well. The guy loses to C level fighters but he will beat all the A level fighters? Give me a break bro.

According to Bogo is that Benitez grows old as fuck and got shot quick as hell so it won't count if JMM or pac beat his ass. You got to fight the guy when he is Peaking yo.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> He so good but he got fucking shot.


How long you can fight doesn't speak to how good of a fighter you are. lmao blaming fighters because time effects them :lol:

Back then they wore out quicker because they fought better fighters and more frequently, instead of taking year long vacations and taking testosterone replacement therapy and breathing in hyperbaric chambers.



tliang1000 said:


> Why don't you read? I've only been talking about the fab4 for the last 5 pages.


You never detailed their best wins and compared them.



tliang1000 said:


> They don't need to bc i'm schooling all of you. Posers group requires backup. They always do.


Schooling me :lol: all you're doing is showing how fucking little you know about the fighters you're talking about. You say random shit post after post and make personal insults because you can't make even one decent post comparing resumes.

You admitted it yourself. You don't know much about the history. So why act like you've sealed the argument? YOU made a thread calling Floyd TBE yet you can't even explain why the vast majority of historians are wrong by placing the Fab 4 above him. It's like me coming out and saying the Earth has 2 moons. No scientist agrees with that. But if I put my fingers in my ears and say "lalalala" it makes it true? Get a grip.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Of course Benitez loses to Floyd, he'll lose to Pac and JMM as well. The guy loses to C level fighters but he will beat all the A level fighters? Give me a break bro.
> 
> According to Bogo is that Benitez grows old as fuck and got shot quick as hell so it won't count if JMM or pac beat his ass. You got to fight the guy when he is Peaking yo.


Why would a prime Benitez lose to Pacquiao or Marquez? What have you seen to suggest that? Tell me.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> How long you can fight doesn't speak to how good of a fighter you are. lmao blaming fighters because time effects them :lol:
> 
> Back then they wore out quicker because they fought better fighters and more frequently, instead of taking year long vacations and taking testosterone replacement therapy and breathing in hyperbaric chambers.
> 
> ...


Bogo i've been schooling u and your friends for years.
How many times did you and your friends have to hit the panick button on me?

You pm them for backup. You post my videos to distract, you wanna keep shit in fantasyland. Begging for me to not to post boxrec so you can bullshit all day long.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Why would a prime Benitez lose to Pacquiao or Marquez? What have you seen to suggest that? Tell me.


LOL why would a prime Marquez or Pac lose to Benitez tell me? What have you seen to suggest that? tell me?


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> @Zopilotee.
> 
> Oh really manny is not better than the one hit wonder Duran? Please list all the great fighters that Duran beat vs Pac's.
> I'll let you find out yourself. Educate yourself.


Are you honestly fucking disabled? In what way is Duran a one hit wonder? Oh my god.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Bogo i've been schooling u and your friends for years.
> How many times did you and your friends have to hit the panick button on me?
> 
> You pm them for backup. You post my videos to distract, you wanna check shit in fantasyland. Begging for me to not to post boxrec so you can bullshit all day long.


You've not addressed a single thing that I've said. You are blatantly avoiding backing up your argument in any meaningful way.

Why are you making up lies? This is my PM inbox.










Consider the possibility that you're just utterly ignorant and that's why nobody agrees with you. Ever.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chacal said:


> Are you honestly fucking disabled? In what way is Duran a one hit wonder? Oh my god.


Who else did he beat?5'4 Dejesus?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> LOL why would a prime Marquez or Pac lose to Benitez tell me? What have you seen to suggest that? tell me?


Why are you deflecting instead of offering proof? Oh right, because you have none. Because you don't know jack shit about the guys you're arguing about.

I have arguments, but I'm not going to give you rope so you can put together some half-assed answer based on information I give you. I want to see what you've got. You made the thread, you've made the bold divergent claim. So prove it.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Who else did he beat?5'4 Dejesus?


Why are you asking for proof of the claim YOU made :lol: If you don't know who else Duran beat of note then you're not equipped to make the argument.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> You've not addressed a single thing that I've said. You are blatantly avoiding backing up your argument in any meaningful way.
> 
> Why are you making up lies? This is my PM inbox.
> 
> ...


I'm soooo sad that the "public" doesn't agree with me. Who is going to tell me who is good and bad boxers from now on?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> I'm soooo sad that the "public" doesn't agree with me. Who is going to tell me who is good and bad boxers from now on?


You should be sad you spend this much time arguing topics you know nothing about because you love Floyd _that_ much. Should be in tears.


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Why are you asking for proof of the claim YOU made :lol: If you don't know who else Duran beat of note then you're not equipped to make the argument.


You have no argument. You got opinions that you think is right. Just bc you have some gay sex sleptovers with flea man doesn't make your opinions worth shit.

I've already prove my point.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> You have no argument. You got opinions that you think is right. Just bc you have some gay sex sleptovers with flea man doesn't make your opinions worth shit.
> 
> I've already prove my point.


What is YOUR argument? YOU made the thread? We've all made arguments to you repeatedly over the years. A vast majority of fans and historians agree with me. The burden is on you to prove Floyd is TBE. Why do you have no proof? Why do you believe in something for which you have no reason to?


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Powerpuncher said:


> Now obviously tliang is a massive spazlord but I think there's an argument for it, Marquez has him beat on longevity and wins over different weight classes for sure. Resume wise Marquez has a deeper list of contenders. Obviously Benitez wins at WW though but Marquez started at FW ofcourse
> 
> I think Benitez loses to Floyd and probably beats the rest clearly. Marquez in this era would be a FW, SFW, LW and maybe a LWW going in against Sanchez, Pedroza, Pryor and Arguello. Really interesting fights and I wouldn't write him off in any


Thing is, tilang is gloating over Floyd's win against JMM at Welter, and comparing it to Hearns' win over Benitez at 154lbs..

And I don't fancy Juan's chances against that list of guys tbf..


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Who else did he beat?5'4 Dejesus?


What does height have to do with fucking anything you spastic? Dejesus twice, Buchanan, Kobayashi, Cuevas, Lampkin (who arguably beat dejesus, fuck your boxrec), Barkley, Leonard, Moore, Palomino and many others.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Marcel & Buchanan are all-time greats in their respective weightclasses. But of course Tony 'Kult Lobain' Liang wouldn't have heard of either of those. 

'Ken Buchanan was dropped and lost a decision to Velasquez. His winning streak wasn't very long'

I can see it now.

This is one thing that was made in Taiwan that should have stayed there.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Why are you asking for proof of the claim YOU made :lol: If you don't know who else Duran beat of note then you're not equipped to make the argument.


Tell me why are you so gay? in detail. Provide evidences when you were gay and when did it begin?


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Tell me why are you so gay? in detail. Provide evidences when you were gay and when did it begin?


Permaban. He's having a nervous breakdown.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> bogo, flea man spends the night at each others house and beat off to old newspaper boxing articles.
> 
> Flea Man: Yo bogo... They Say Harry Greb is a human windmill!
> Bogo: whoa, i wanna suck his dick.
> ...


:lol: You're a 35 year old virgin with a tiny oriental cock.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Permaban. He's having a nervous breakdown.


Yeah much like the time when you were crying talking about leaving the forum.


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## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Tell me why are you so gay? in detail. Provide evidences when you were gay and when did it begin?


Wow. The maturity here is astounding.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> wow... scott 15-6, pat lawlor 13-1, moore 13-1. They must be HOFer fighters whooping up on Benitez like that.
> 
> Now who was the idiot who was laughing that JMM can't be compared to Benitez?


Moore was a monster who beat world class fighters ON THE ROAD and won a world title damn quickly.

You have lost the debate so badly you might as well commit suicide. And I genuinely mean it.

And in that fight Benitez broke his ankle.

Moore a C level fighter?!?!?! No. Clue. Whatsoever.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> :lol: You're a 35 year old virgin with a tiny oriental cock.


We don't need your description of yourself on the boxing forum :deal
Not everyone is fagboys like you and bogo


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Floyd fought more champs. Floyd > Hearns in name opponents while Hearns > Floyd with the better singular win. Again, i'm not impressed by a guy with a heavyweight wingspan beating smaller guys like he was suppose to, if you are half way decent anyways.
> 
> Only person from the fab4 that surpasses Floyd resume wise is SRL and even that is getting close.


For most of Hearns' career there were less belts.

It's 'getting close' between Leonard and Floyd?! :rofl


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Tell me why are you so gay? in detail. Provide evidences when you were gay and when did it begin?


So that's it huh? You admit defeat. Good.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Moore was a monster who beat world class fighters ON THE ROAD and won a world title damn quickly.
> 
> You have lost the debate so badly you might as well commit suicide. And I genuinely mean it.
> 
> ...


Yeah and he can shoot laser beams and fly. One would wonder he even got beat?


 Davey Moore 
  Global ID*2617*sex
malebirthdate1959-06-09death date1988-06-02 (28)divisionsuper welterweightstanceorthodoxheight5â€² 10â€³ / 178cmreach71â€³ / 180cm aliasBronx country  USA residenceBronx, New York, USAbirth placeBronx, New York, USA won *18* (KO 14) + lost *5* (KO 3) + drawn *0* = *23*
rounds boxed *134* KO% *60.87*  


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## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> So that's it huh? You admit defeat. Good.


Man i whooped you so bad, that you punch drunk on here begging for more. Go ask your bf to give you some of that good knowledge.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Yeah much like the time when you were crying talking about leaving the forum.


I wasn't crying. Anyone who actually knows me and has spoken to me or met me (a few guys on here) would tell you I'm not like that.

Not that I care what you think. I've seen your sparring videos and band practise! You are a sad little man with an awful life.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> I wasn't crying. Anyone who actually knows me and has spoken to me or met me (a few guys on here) would tell you I'm not like that.
> 
> Not that I care what you think. I've seen your sparring videos and band practise! You are a sad little man with an awful life.


and they know you fantasize me and stalk me to. 
You are creepy as mofo.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> Yeah and he can shoot laser beams and fly. One would wonder he even got beat?
> 
> 
> Davey Moore
> ...


Because Duran ruined him in a dreadful beatdown which you could easily watch.....but then you don't watch ANY boxing.


----------



## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

So you ask for the list of people he beat, I give you it, and you fuck off to obscurity. You are a sad little cunt.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

tliang1000 said:


> and they know you fantasize me and stalk me to.
> You are creepy as mofo.


I hope your mum is dead and it was very sad.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Man i whooped you so bad, that you punch drunk on here begging for more. Go ask your bf to give you some of that good knowledge.


You're pathetic. You can't put forth one solid argument. I can't imagine what kind of wreck you are in the rest of your life if this is how you handle a simple challenge to a claim you're making openly.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> You're pathetic. You can't put forth one solid argument. I can't imagine what kind of wreck you are in the rest of your life if this is how you handle a simple challenge to a claim you're making openly.


You should try scrolling up and previous pages instead of repeating shit like a parrot which i know you are very good at.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> You should try scrolling up and previous pages instead of repeating shit like a parrot which i know you are very good at.


You mean what youve been doing this whole thread? :lol: You've not provided any detailed comparison. Because you can't.


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

This is why bans should be handed out for people just not being up to the required standard, i know Bernard Black would agree


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

lmfao

did some dumfuk flomo just compare marcos FUKEN maidaina to roberto duran?

and i thought it was bad when some dumfuk flomo here compared marcos maidaina to prime ricardo mayorga! i mean, anyone watching boxing in the late 90s and early 2000s knows just how fuken dumb that is.

flomos continue to be the dumbest dumfuks on this forum


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

quincy k said:


> lmfao
> 
> did some dumfuk flomo just compare marcos FUKEN maidaina to roberto duran?
> 
> ...


Mayorga really is a different animal to Maidana. Much more dangerous, a much harder hitter.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Mayorga really is a different animal to Maidana. Much more dangerous, a much harder hitter.


the 147 version was not only dangerous but fearless as well with his iron chin. remember when he let pfp forrest give him free shots at his chin in the rematch?

mayorga would beat the wholly living shit out of maidana


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

quincy k said:


> the 147 version was not only dangerous but fearless as well with his iron chin. remember when he let pfp forrest give him free shots at his chin in the rematch?
> 
> mayorga would beat the wholly living shit out of maidana


:clap: No doubt.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

JamieC said:


> This is why bans should be handed out for people just not being up to the required standard, i know Bernard Black would agree


:deal


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Also Benitez was a great great talent. Easily equivalent to Floyd if we are talking strictly talent imo. but there are things like consistency and discipline that made Floyd's career better than Benitez's. If Benitez showed up in prime condition, say the 154 Benitez from the Maurice Hope or Duran fights, he'd definitely give Floyd a tough fight. It'd be a close 7-5 points victory either way, I have no idea who would win that chess match.

I'd definitely favor Benitez vs Marquez or Pacquiao. His counterpunching style would give marquez hell, he'd force Juan to lead and walk him into all kinds of counters. Pacquiao would get outpointed.



quincy k said:


> the 147 version was not only dangerous but fearless as well with his iron chin. remember when he let pfp forrest give him free shots at his chin in the rematch?
> 
> mayorga would beat the wholly living shit out of maidana


Mayorga was a fucking G.


----------



## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Of course Benitez loses to Floyd, he'll lose to Pac and JMM as well. The guy loses to C level fighters but he will beat all the A level fighters? Give me a break bro.
> 
> According to Bogo is that Benitez grows old as fuck and got shot quick as hell so it won't count if JMM or pac beat his ass. You got to fight the guy when he is Peaking yo.


5'10 defensive master Benitez losing to Pac and JMM :lol: like I say, a massive spazlord. You're a Floyd fan and really stupid right, now I'm like a billion times smarter than you if I'm being modest and I'll tell you straight that Benitez is basically as good as Floyd but a bit slower.

You should watch boxing and not look at boxrec, ever again.


----------



## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> Thing is, tilang is gloating over Floyd's win against JMM at Welter, and comparing it to Hearns' win over Benitez at 154lbs..
> 
> And I don't fancy Juan's chances against that list of guys tbf..


Obviously Hearns win over Benitez is better than Floyd's win over JMM. But I think JMM can maybe beat all the men I mentioned. He's faster and imo better than Arguello, he matches up really well with Pryor stylistically, while Sanchez is his toughest stylistic match up as another great counter puncher with better footwork, he probably loses that one.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Also Benitez was a great great talent. Easily equivalent to Floyd if we are talking strictly talent imo. but there are things like consistency and discipline that made Floyd's career better than Benitez's. If Benitez showed up in prime condition, say the 154 Benitez from the Maurice Hope or Duran fights, he'd definitely give Floyd a tough fight. It'd be a close 7-5 points victory either way, I have no idea who would win that chess match.
> 
> I'd definitely favor Benitez vs Marquez or Pacquiao. His counterpunching style would give marquez hell, he'd force Juan to lead and walk him into all kinds of counters. Pacquiao would get outpointed.
> 
> Mayorga was a fucking G.


ktfo the number two ranked undefeated (lewis) and then the number one ranked undefeated(forrest) 147s back to back. then defeats forrest in the rematch. this after forrest just beat the undefeated number one pound for pound fighter in the world(mosely)...twice.

when some flomo says that maidaina is better than prime mayorga i really want to reach through my computer and slap the flomo upside the head.


----------



## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Yeah and he can shoot laser beams and fly. One would wonder he even got beat?
> 
> 
> Davey Moore
> ...


Like I say you need to ban yourself from boxrec. He won a world title in his 5th fight and suffered a horrendous beating by Duran that ruined his career, he was ruined after that.


----------



## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Jump on the "Robinson is not a top10 - in fact, he ain't shit" boat.
> 
> @Powerpuncher is already there.


I mean I see him as beatable by a few, maybe beatable, maybe not, I'm just unconvinced he'd definitely beat the best WWs and MWs I've seen without having seen him against similar opposition.

Although I'm more convinced that other supposed top10 P4P guys are definitely more beatable, ie Armstrong, Greb, Ross, Leonard, Pep. Realistically none are top 5 in any weight class they competed in.

And it's a bit harsh ranking Greb without seeing him box, but he lost and drew a series with Loughran who looks distinctly average. I mean I could see 100s of LHWs and MWs beating Loughran.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

quincy k said:


> when some flomo says that maidaina is better than prime mayorga i really want to reach through my computer and slap the flomo upside the head.


Mayorga was massive at one point.

Maidana never reached that level of success.

Very, very short prime though.

Cruder and less skilled but more unorthodox, unpredictable with his offense and overall more dangerous than Chino.


----------



## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> Although I'm more convinced that other *supposed* top10 P4P guys are definitely more beatable, ie Armstrong, Greb, Ross, Leonard, Pep.


"Supposed" is the key word here.

Overrated sacred cows.

Dempsey's plague o' both their houses.


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## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Oh, dear. This is literally the worst line of debate I've ever seen! The 60's were stacked with talent (particularly welter through to middleweight) with numerous ATG fighters and fights. But yeah, look at how many bouts boxrec has.


There you go again literally giving nothing of substance except for subjective measures. Your method of argument is so fucking archaic its comical; you must be one of those losers who argues in defense of oldschool fighters with metaphors and superlatives "he was a windmill of a puncher!" "and then he took on a FAST fighter in X" "a perpetual motion machine!::lol: dumbass

I've provided hard numbers, you've provided jack shit in regards to objective criteria. "stacked with ATG talent" :rofl literally with no fucking BASIS. If you take 2 extreme examples, one where there's only a tournament of 100 people, vs one where there's 1 million people its fucking obvious the man who ends up at the top of the latter is greater at a more competetive era. It doesn't matter if X no-name dominates over 100 men when the sample is significantly smaller.

not to mention that your line of logic directly contradicts what you said about Floyd earlier in regards to number of bouts and longevity


> Being at championship level for ten years--is that really more impressive than fitting in more fights against better opposition in a smaller timespan? Could that be why he has so much longevity at 'championship level'?





Flea Man said:


> When have I ever bottled it in an argument on here?


Nearly every single post from any poster that disagreed with you on this thread you came at them like a bitch on her rag. When I see a bitch I treat her like one

Lol just get back in the dumpster where you were discarded, trash


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> "Supposed" is the key word here.
> 
> Overrated sacred cows.
> 
> *Dempsey's plague o' both their houses*.


Let's not go too far and compare them to the first great boxing marketeer


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> Let's not go too far and compare them to the first great boxing marketeer


I will never forgive Armstrong for not getting KO'd by Burley.

Black Pacquiao.


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> I will never forgive Armstrong for not getting KO'd by Burley.
> 
> Black Pacquiao.


Yea they were both dopey enough to fight anyone their promoter put them in with. Armstrong lasts the distance ofcourse 

A bit of hype though 'record WW defences and all 3 belts at the same time' while not defending against the best WWs. A fighter today would be critisised heavily for doing the same. Like if Cotto racked up 20 title defences at MW right now without facing GGG and any other decent contender.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


> Mayorga was massive at one point.
> 
> Maidana never reached that level of success.
> 
> ...


the problem with mayorga was that he did not carry his punch to 154 and he could no longer make 147.

putting miadaina in the same sentence as 147 mayorga is something that should never be done because maidaina would have no chance against a prime 147 ricardo

the only bet would be is if marcos could make it 12 rounds


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

megavolt said:


> There you go again literally giving nothing of substance except for subjective measures. Your method of argument is so fucking archaic its comical; you must be one of those losers who argues in defense of oldschool fighters with metaphors and superlatives "he was a windmill of a puncher!" "and then he took on a FAST fighter in X" "a perpetual motion machine!::lol: dumbass
> 
> I've provided hard numbers, you've provided jack shit in regards to objective criteria. "stacked with ATG talent" :rofl literally with no fucking BASIS. If you take 2 extreme examples, one where there's only a tournament of 100 people, vs one where there's 1 million people its fucking obvious the man who ends up at the top of the latter is greater at a more competetive era. It doesn't matter if X no-name dominates over 100 men when the sample is significantly smaller.
> 
> ...


Look at all the great fighters from the 60's. Look how many fights they had.

You don't even know who fought in the 60's! Your 'facts' are some stats you pulled off boxrec.

I am 100% not someone who would use those terms. I'm a collector and historian.

You are fucking ********* who keeps moving the goalposts then accuses me of moving them!

As I say, admit that you don't know what you're talking about. Then we can move on.

Trying to act like you have some historical basis for your rankings when you don't is what makes well read people like myself make you look an utter cunt.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> Yea they were both dopey enough to fight anyone their promoter put them in with. Armstrong lasts the distance ofcourse
> 
> A bit of hype though 'record WW defences and all 3 belts at the same time' while not defending against the best WWs. A fighter today would be critisised heavily for doing the same. Like if Cotto racked up 20 title defences at MW right now without facing GGG and any other decent contender.


Armstrong beat Garcia and Ross. Both highly ranked whatever you say and any historian with half a brain knows that mainly at welter Armstrong fought lightweights who came in over 135 and were comfortable.

Actual research shows it doesn't make him any less of a fighter. If Cotto had fifty odd wins over ranked contenders over a fair span of weight no one would give a fuck, and most of Cotto's middleweight contemporaries wouldn't have been middleweights in Armstrongs era, Cotto would've been.


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## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Look at all the great fighters from the 60's. Look how many fights they had.
> 
> You don't even know who fought in the 60's! Your 'facts' are some stats you pulled off boxrec.
> 
> ...


Hah what a fucking riot. Such a weakly founded response... but as expected of trash. "Look at the great fighters, look at their number of fights" do you not see where the fuck this is going? It naturally follows that if you're counting a fighter's raw bouts and wins, you're also counting those of their opponents, and their opponents opponents, and so on. Ultimately in AGGREGATE what gets measured is how many bouts are actually occurring in an era. The fact that this big picture keeps flying over your head while you nitpick tiny little subjective details underlines how stupid you really are.

To call yourself a historian with this bottom of the barrel trash line of reasoning? Don't make me laugh. "Well read people like myself" you must have been reading shit upside down or been referring to your primary school coloring books because your dumbass hasn't shown anything close to a semblance of a good argument. Again, get the fuck out of here and go back to middle school.


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Fucking shit man... Cant believe I read the last few pages and he actually wrote all that shit. I was tempted to call him out on some of his bullshit again but no matter how many times he gets beat down he will never accept it and keep thinking he has the divine knowledge.

The only way to deal with these guys is to fully ignore them, theyre delusional and wont ever stop. The whole forum (or as many people as possible) ignoring this guy is the only way. 

:verysad


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## Slick Ric (Apr 7, 2015)

TBE what? Welterweight? I thinks not. Robinson and Hearns would have both knocked him spark out and I believe Leonard would have beaten him as well, and that's just to name a few. I'm a big fan of his for what he does in the ring, but this "TBE" nonsense is just a silly marketing ploy. Great boxer, but he's not the best ever and most certainly not the greatest. The P4P greatest is clearly Ray Robinson based on actual accomplishments. The best is more subjective, but I don't see him beating the three guys I mentioned, which means he's not the best in my book. He does make a good case for the best ever at marketing himself, though.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Cormega said:


> TBE what? Welterweight? I thinks not. Robinson and Hearns would have both knocked him spark out and I believe Leonard would have beaten him as well, and that's just to name a few. I'm a big fan of his for what he does in the ring, but this "TBE" nonsense is just a silly marketing ploy. Great boxer, but he's not the best ever and most certainly not the greatest. The P4P greatest is clearly Ray Robinson based on actual accomplishments. The best is more subjective, but I don't see him beating the three guys I mentioned, which means he's not the best in my book. He does make a good case for the best ever at marketing himself, though.


It's not 'clearly' Ray Robinson at all.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

megavolt said:


> Hah what a fucking riot. Such a weakly founded response... but as expected of trash. "Look at the great fighters, look at their number of fights" do you not see where the fuck this is going? It naturally follows that if you're counting a fighter's raw bouts and wins, you're also counting those of their opponents, and their opponents opponents, and so on. Ultimately in AGGREGATE what gets measured is how many bouts are actually occurring in an era. The fact that this big picture keeps flying over your head while you nitpick tiny little subjective details underlines how stupid you really are.
> 
> To call yourself a historian with this bottom of the barrel trash line of reasoning? Don't make me laugh. "Well read people like myself" you must have been reading shit upside down or been referring to your primary school coloring books because your dumbass hasn't shown anything close to a semblance of a good argument. Again, get the fuck out of here and go back to middle school.


You are absolutely bizarre considering the best of the 60's fought loads of ranked opponents that had fought loads of quality fighters themselves.

The records are there, the footage is there.

It was an incredible era and again, you still haven't addressed the fallacies in your argument (i.e Monzon being the best middleweight of the 60s which isn't true) and keep skirting around relying on boxrec...even though there were enough bouts to keep boxing on TV week after week until Griffith killed Paret.


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## chibelle (Jun 5, 2013)

This thread is hysterical! 

What I have noticed though is that Flea Man and tliang replies are actually of the same feather - a lot of hyperbole and ad hominem. And always closing by claiming the other posters DKSAB. 

The irony.


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## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Theron said:


> Fucking shit man... Cant believe I read the last few pages and he actually wrote all that shit. I was tempted to call him out on some of his bullshit again but no matter how many times he gets beat down he will never accept it and keep thinking he has the divine knowledge.
> 
> _*The only way to deal with these guys is to fully ignore them*_, theyre delusional and wont ever stop. The whole forum (or as many people as possible) ignoring this guy is the only way.
> 
> :verysad


Yesterday, 02:05 PM
only problem with this is once you tell them that they are on your ignore list some of them will start pathetically stalking you... like a rejected girlfriend

tliang1000
P4P Star

*This message is hidden because tliang1000 is on your ignore list.*

View PostRemove user from ignore list​
*View Post

*​


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

chibelle said:


> This thread is hysterical!
> 
> What I have noticed though is that Flea Man and tliang replies are actually of the same feather - a lot of hyperbole and ad hominem. And always closing by claiming the other posters DKSAB.
> 
> The irony.


I don't think you'll find anyone who would claim that I am anything like him...because I actually know what I'm talking about. Hence why I get paid to talk about it.

What hyperbolic statements have I come out with, considering I've actually dispelled historical fallacies in a few posters' arguments in this thread? (I.e Davey Moore being trash and Packey McFarland having lost twice)


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## Powerpuncher (May 20, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Armstrong beat Garcia and Ross. Both highly ranked whatever you say and any historian with half a brain knows that mainly at welter Armstrong fought lightweights who came in over 135 and were comfortable.
> 
> Actual research shows it doesn't make him any less of a fighter. If Cotto had fifty odd wins over ranked contenders over a fair span of weight no one would give a fuck, and most of Cotto's middleweight contemporaries wouldn't have been middleweights in Armstrongs era, Cotto would've been.


It still makes his WW run pretty fraudulent. Armstrong had the following WWs Ring ranked when he was champion that he didn't face:

Burley, Holman Williams, Leto, Cocoa Kid, Aron, Kaplan, Berger, Mamkos, Luftspring, Killrain, Frattini, Carroll, Jannazzo

He fought the following ranked by The Ring at WW: Garcia, Zivic, Roderik, Zannelli

After he fought: Turiello but not during his reign

The only notable contenders who stepped up in weight were Day/Arizmendi and ofcourse the Ambers rematch.

I don't think it's a great reign


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## Tko6 (May 19, 2013)

I'd normally be impressed when a thread gets so many replies in such a short time, but when absolutely everyone in that thread is calling you a massive spacker, it's not impressive. OP is not only the dumbest poster on this site, he seems determined to advertise it. . .


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Powerpuncher said:


> It still makes his WW run pretty fraudulent. Armstrong had the following WWs Ring ranked when he was champion that he didn't face:
> 
> Burley, Holman Williams, Leto, Cocoa Kid, Aron, Kaplan, Berger, Mamkos, Luftspring, Killrain, Frattini, Carroll, Jannazzo
> 
> ...


Pedro Montanez moved up too, right?


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## Slick Ric (Apr 7, 2015)

Flea Man said:


> It's not 'clearly' Ray Robinson at all.


Name someone greater.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Holy shit, is it sad that I remember when this was ONLY 3 pages long? Fuck, this blew up to 26 pages rather quickly.

:rofl

I have to go back and read this whole thread. It's GOLD!


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Cormega said:


> Name someone greater.


No one. There are 4 or 5 fighters at the same level of greatness. What I take umbrage with is your assertion that Robinson is 'clearly' the greatest. Armstrong, Greb, Langford and Charles deserve better.


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## Slick Ric (Apr 7, 2015)

Flea Man said:


> No one. There are 4 or 5 fighters at the same level of greatness. What I take umbrage with is your assertion that Robinson is 'clearly' the greatest. Armstrong, Greb, Langford and Charles deserve better.


Fair enough. For me, Ray Robinson is the greatest without question, but I know that's somewhat subjective and I don't even pretend to be anywhere close to the most astute boxing historian.


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> It really infuriates me to see another person overrating Monzon.


The pendulum has swung too far in favour of Monzon in some internet circles.

Like there's a clear gap between Hagler and Monzon.

Making fun of Hagler's tiresome whining and exaggerated manliness is all well and good but the only and at the same time the most important tie-breaker is that Leonard fight.

Which Hagler lost.

Which tarnished Hagler's reputation for eternity.

Unlike Monzon who successfully beat his arch enemy.

"I scored it for Hagler! It doesn't matter!"

It does matter. People are easily influenced, even if they don't understand it.

Marciano's undefeated streak does matter.
It improves his standings tremendously.

Cal's carefully built career does matter.
It improves his standings tremendously.

Floyd's past it's expiration date win over Pac does matter.
It improves his standings tremendously.

etc.

In reality there's nothing between their resumes, nothing besides cold icy stare between their H2H-prowess.

Just felt the sudden inexplicable urge to put in a word for a poor italian fella, @dyna
Must be those spaghettis I've been eating this past week.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Tko6 said:


> I'd normally be impressed when a thread gets so many replies in such a short time, but when absolutely everyone in that thread is calling you a massive spacker, it's not impressive. OP is not only the dumbest poster on this site, he seems determined to advertise it. . .


He's NOT dumb. In fact, he can tell how good a prospect is in only seeing three rounds of theirs. His words! And he know FMjr would be special 12 whole years ago!! :rofl


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## knowimuch (May 9, 2014)

Mal said:


> He's NOT dumb. In fact, he can tell how good a prospect is in only seeing three rounds of theirs. His words! And he know FMjr would be special 12 whole years ago!! :rofl


Tbf, I can do that too if I bring my powerlevel scouter with me


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## w;dkm ckeqfjq c (Jul 26, 2012)

Tony is the least knowledgeable poster on this website. He should take his ass to youtube comment feeds. Even ESB is too good for him.


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