# The Lomachenko vs Rigondeaux 'Will They Won't They?' Thread



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Lots of talk about who Loma's next opponent will be (in December probably). First it was Rigo, Salido and Berchelt. Now it seems to have been narrowed down to Rigo or Salido. The Salido thread is here. Couldn't see a thread specifically about the potential Loma vs Rigo fight.

We can take this for what it's worth but Arum's just said they're "open for Lomachenko to face anyone," and that he...

_"spoke to Roc Nation recently about Lomachenko fighting Rigondeaux, Rigondeaux has agreed to move up from 122 pounds (where he holds a world junior featherweight title) to face Lomachenko at 130 pounds. Rigondeaux is entitled to a big purse, but not a crazy purse. This isn't Christmas, where you give everything away." _ - Source​


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

I don't think it happens. Rigo's career has been such a let down and it has to be the people around him. I don't think for a second that either Rigo or Loma would shy away from the challenge, they both have elite skillsets and high self belief, but whereas Loma's team seem to do a reasonable job, Rigo's have fucked some of the best year's of his career.

Then again, 2017 has been amazing for getting the fights that seemed like they'd never happen, so fingers crossed this is another one.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

We knew this already but the purse Rigo wants could be the biggest obstacle in the way of this fight getting made:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/895719866711195648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/895729763817472000
Rigo earned $120,000 for Flores. Negotiations will be tough if he thinks a fighters ability correlates to their value.

On the other hand, Salido himself might want more than he's worth because he may have it in his head that Loma has a burning desire to avenge the loss and will pay more for the opportunity. What we might see is a fight between Loma and who, out of Salido and Rigo, will settle for the least. Both guys seem to have a sense of entitlement that Arum could take advantage of.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Kurushi said:


> We knew this already but the purse Rigo wants could be the biggest obstacle in the way of this fight getting made:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/895719866711195648
> ...


Rigondeaux is on a $10million 4 year contract, I dont think its him that wants more money its his promoters realising this guy is not making them any profit for shit lol, the winning purse bid for Flores was $120,000 dont think that was Rigo's purse


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> Rigondeaux is on a $10million 4 year contract, I dont think its him that wants more money its his promoters realising this guy is not making them any profit for shit lol, the winning purse bid for Flores was $120,000 dont think that was Rigo's purse


According to Bloody Elbow the purses were as follows:

Guillermo Rigondeaux (Champion, 17-0, 11 KOs): $120,000 
Moises Flores (Challenger, 25-0-1, 17 KOs): $25,000

So $120,000 wasn't the total bid but it's an interesting point about Rigo's guarantee. Same as with Ward's purses. I'm actually not 100% clear on how purses work when one guy's on a fixed amount from their own promoter. Have RN essentially purchased Rigo and Ward like footballers for a fixed amount of fights and then take a higher than usual percentage of the purse than they would have done without the initial retainer?


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

All the talk about Rigondeaux making ridiculous demands when he's not a draw is amusing since Lomachenko's own guarantees are pretty inflated relative to his drawing power.


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## thegee (Feb 10, 2017)

Surely if itwas left to Lomo he would want to fight Salido or Rigo. I have said previously that I am surprised that he has not fought Salido, if only to avenge his only loss. But the fight the boxing fans would like to see is Loma and Rigo. Lomo"s amateur record is 396-1, he won two Olympic Golds, and Three World Titles. Rigo"s amateur record is 463-12, he also won Two Olympic Golds, and Two World Titles. Freddie Roach says that Rigo is the greatest talent he as ever seen, when you think of all the "greats" that he as seen and trained , that is some compliment. I have a feeling that the Lomo / Rigo fight will take place, possibly before the end of the year, if Rigo is alleged to be asking $750,000, give it to him, Lomo will probably get twice as much, I don"t think it is a fair share out , but unfortunately that"s boxing. I like both fighters, what Lomo as achieved in such a short time is amazing, but I have a feeling that if they do meet we will see the "real" Rigo and I think he will be too much for Lomo. Regards Mervyn The Gee


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

poorface said:


> All the talk about Rigondeaux making ridiculous demands when he's not a draw is amusing since Lomachenko's own guarantees are pretty inflated relative to his drawing power.


I think the issue with the money here is that whether you feel Loma's purses are inflated or not, he got 750k for Marriaga and $1 million for arguably his best win (Walters). If Rigo's on record saying he shouldn't expect less than 750,000 and he got 120,000 in his last fight then that_ is _a pretty ridiculous expectation. Rigo's obviously not going to get paid as much as Loma. Regardless of what either guy is worth this isn't a 50/50 fight financially speaking. Hopefully they can come to an arrangement though because it's a pretty special fight.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

thegee said:


> Surely if itwas left to Lomo he would want to fight Salido or Rigo. I have said previously that I am surprised that he has not fought Salido, if only to avenge his only loss. But the fight the boxing fans would like to see is Loma and Rigo. Lomo"s amateur record is 396-1, he won two Olympic Golds, and Three World Titles. Rigo"s amateur record is 463-12, he also won Two Olympic Golds, and Two World Titles. Freddie Roach says that Rigo is the greatest talent he as ever seen, when you think of all the "greats" that he as seen and trained , that is some compliment. I have a feeling that the Lomo / Rigo fight will take place, possibly before the end of the year, if Rigo is alleged to be asking $750,000, give it to him, Lomo will probably get twice as much, I don"t think it is a fair share out , but unfortunately that"s boxing. I like both fighters, what Lomo as achieved in such a short time is amazing, but I have a feeling that if they do meet we will see the "real" Rigo and I think he will be too much for Lomo. Regards Mervyn The Gee


It would be remarkable to see two guys facing each other in the ring with 4 olympic gold medals between them.


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> I think the issue with the money here is that whether you feel Loma's purses are inflated or not, he got 750k for Marriaga and $1 million for arguably his best win (Walters).


Wait, weren't you just dismissing the idea that fighter quality correlates to their value? Why do we care about the quality of the Walters win at all then, rather than the awful rating he did vs Martinez immediately prior to collecting that 7-figure payday? It seems to me the latter would be more relevant, at least for how you're setting the terms of the discussion when it concerns Rigondeaux.


> If Rigo's on record saying he shouldn't expect less than 750,000 and he got 120,000 in his last fight then that_ is _a pretty ridiculous expectation. Rigo's obviously not going to get paid as much as Loma. Regardless of what either guy is worth this isn't a 50/50 fight financially speaking. Hopefully they can come to an arrangement though because it's a pretty special fight.


It isn't at all obvious that this isn't close to a 50/50 fight when it comes to drawing power. We all know Rigondeaux's not one but Lomachenko's numbers have been consistently mediocre for a while as well, and he just did less than 800k viewers on a network with a far larger audience than HBO.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

poorface said:


> Wait, weren't you just dismissing the idea that fighter quality correlates to their value?


Yes. How good a fighter is doesn't determine their purse.



poorface said:


> Why do we care about the quality of the Walters win at all then, rather than the awful rating he did vs Martinez immediately prior to collecting that 7-figure payday? It seems to me the latter would be more relevant, at least for how you're setting the terms of the discussion when it concerns Rigondeaux.


We don't have to care about the quality of Walters. I was pointing out that Walters was Lomachenko's "biggest" win, meaning his biggest payday to date. If Loma is earning $1 million for his biggest fight then it's not likely that Rigo would get $750k against Vasyl because that would put expectations of Loma's purse significantly higher than $1 million. Walters got $300k. If Rigo expects $750k then Loma would be expecting at least $2 million. I don't think there's enough money in this fight to justify combined purses of around $3 million.



poorface said:


> It isn't at all obvious that this isn't close to a 50/50 fight when it comes to drawing power. We all know Rigondeaux's not one but Lomachenko's numbers have been consistently mediocre for a while as well, and he just did less than 800k viewers on a network with a far larger audience than HBO.


It's completely obvious Rigo isn't getting 50%. Lomachenko's obviously the A side here. Loma's "mediocre" ratings are better than Rigo's non-existent ones. Loma's been headlining for a while now while Rigos been on undercards. You can point to the ratings for Loma's outings but at least he has numbers. Rigo doesn't. The last time Rigo was the "draw" and headlining was vs Agbeko which got 550k viewers almost 4 years ago. That's considerably less than Loma's last 4 outings.

If you think Loma's earning too much that's fine. So let's pay him less. What does that do to Rigo's expected 750k (minimum) purse? Makes it even more ridiculous doesn't it?


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> We don't have to care about the quality of Walters. I was pointing out that Walters was Lomachenko's "biggest" win, meaning his biggest payday to date. If Loma is earning $1 million for his biggest fight then it's not likely that Rigo would get $750k against Vasyl because that would put expectations of Loma's purse significantly higher than $1 million. Walters got $300k. If Rigo expects $750k then Loma would be expecting at least $2 million. I don't think there's enough money in this fight to justify combined purses of around $3 million.


No, the mere fact that Lomachenko has previously gotten lopsided splits of purses doesn't mean it's automatically reasonable to endorse him continuing to get them.


> I disagree that it's not obvious. Lomachenko's obviously the A side here. Loma's "mediocre" ratings are better than Rigo's non-existent ones. Loma's been headlining for a while now while Rigos been on undercards. You can point to the ratings for Loma's outings but at least he has numbers. Rigo doesn't. The last time Rigo was the "draw" and headlining was vs Agbeko which got 550k viewers almost 4 years ago. Loma got 728k vs Marriaga, 761k vs Walters and 832k vs Sosa. If you think that means he's earning too much that's fine. So let's pay him less. What does that do to Rigo's expected 750k (minimum) purse? Makes it increasingly unrealistic doesn't it?


I notice you exclude the Martinez fight, which was about as bad as Rigondeaux-Agbeko (especially since it was a Puerto Rican opponent who had had far more TV dates). And a 728k on ESPN is arguably the worst rating of all and is the most recent data point we have for Lomachenko's drawing power.

I'd also note of course Rigondeaux would be the one taking the lion's share of the risk by moving up 2 divisions for a fight that Lomachenko has clearly indicated he himself wants, so I fail to see how a more equitable split wouldn't be in order. Why isn't it reasonable to expect Lomachenko to take a smaller cut than he's been demanding given both that it's out of line with his actual drawing power and because he's not the one moving up? Why all the focus on Rigondeaux's demands being the biggest potential impediment?


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

poorface said:


> No, the mere fact that Lomachenko has previously gotten lopsided splits of purses doesn't mean it's automatically reasonable to endorse him continuing to get them.


Whatever your opinion on Loma's earnings the fact that he _is_ getting between $750k-$1 million repeatedly does a lot to suggest he'll continue getting that. It does even more to suggest that Rigo won't be getting a comparable purse.



poorface said:


> I notice you exclude the Martinez fight, which was about as bad as Rigondeaux-Agbeko (especially since it was a Puerto Rican opponent who had had far more TV dates). And a 728k on ESPN is arguably the worst rating of all and is the most recent data point we have for Lomachenko's drawing power.


I just included his last 3 fights. You seem to think I excluded it for some particular reason. Let's include it then. Loma vs Martinez did around 585k which was still more than Rigo vs Agbeko. Four fights ago Loma's first headliner (and the lowest of his headlining viewerships so far) got more than Rigo's one and only headliner four years ago. You're not doing a lot to convince me that Rigo deserves 50% at $750k.



poorface said:


> I'd also note of course Rigondeaux would be the one taking the lion's share of the risk by moving up 2 divisions for a fight that Lomachenko has clearly indicated he himself wants, so I fail to see how a more equitable split wouldn't be in order. Why isn't it reasonable to expect Lomachenko to take a smaller cut than he's been demanding given both that it's out of line with his actual drawing power and because he's not the one moving up? Why all the focus on Rigondeaux's demands being the biggest potential impediment?


I agree. Rigo is taking a risk moving up in weight. Again though, that doesn't determine how much he should get paid. That's not how it works. It's not unreasonable to expect Loma to earn less if his popularity isn't developing as quickly as his promoter expects. This has already happened. His purse against Marriaga was 25% lower than what he earned against Walters.

Why the focus on Rigondeaux's demands? Because he's the one making demands. Show me where Lomachenko has demanded several million dollars for the fight. On the contrary he's offering people half a million from his own purse if they beat him!


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Whatever your opinion on Loma's earnings the fact that he _is_ getting between $750k-$1 million repeatedly does a lot to suggest he'll continue getting that. It does even more to suggest that Rigo won't be getting a comparable purse.


Rigondeaux _did_ make $750k against Donaire, as he noted above. You attempted to downplay that as ridiculous though.


> I just included his last 3 fights. You seem to think I excluded it for some particular reason. Let's include it then. Loma vs Martinez did around 585k which was still more than Rigo vs Agbeko. Four fights ago Loma's first headliner (and the lowest of his headlining viewerships so far) got more than Rigo's one and only headliner four years ago. You're not doing a lot to convince me that Rigo deserves 50% at $750k.


His one headlining fight did about as bad as Lomachenko's first headlining fight against a far better known fighter. And as I said, sub-800k on ESPN is likely the most disappointing number of all. He gave Donaire the highest rated fight of his career against a non-Mexican, a number yet to be even sniffed by Lomachenko.


> I agree. Rigo is taking a risk moving up in weight. Again though, that doesn't determine how much he should get paid. That's not how it works.


It's not unreasonable to suggest that it should be at least one factor accounted for, particularly since Lomachenko and Top Rank have been calling Rigondeaux out about as much as the other way around. If they want the fight, a more even split may be in order.


> Why the focus on Rigondeaux's demands? Because he's the one making demands. Show me where Lomachenko has demanded several million dollars for the fight. On the contrary he's offering people half a million from his own purse if they beat him!


Where has Rigondeaux demanded several million dollars for the fight? He's asking for the same amount he got against Donaire. You're simply treating Lomachenko's previous purse splits as reasonable by default and then suggesting that Rigondeaux getting that amount would entail Lomachenko getting so much as to make the fight impossible. But the point is Lomachenko doesn't need to get such splits automatically.

And fighters offering up portions of their own purse is almost always little more than promotional BS that never amounts to anything.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

poorface said:


> Rigondeaux _did_ make $750k against Donaire, as he noted above. You attempted to downplay that as ridiculous though.


I didn't downplay Rigo getting $750k against Donaire as ridiculous. I said that Rigo expecting to get the same amount against Loma was a ridiculous expectation. Donaire got $2 million by the way so if Loma gets $2 million and Rigo gets $750k and the fight gets made then that's great but, like I said, I don't think there's that much money in this fight. The points you've raised about Loma's PPV performances compound that assertion. Happy to be proved wrong on that though. If they can come to that agreement then that's brilliant.



poorface said:


> His one headlining fight did about as bad as Lomachenko's first headlining fight against a far better known fighter. And as I said, sub-800k on ESPN is likely the most disappointing number of all. He gave Donaire the highest rated fight of his career against a non-Mexican, a number yet to be even sniffed by Lomachenko.


You and I both know that Donaire was generating the majority of those views not Rigo. When Rigo had the opportunity to "sniff" at those numbers by himself he failed. However unfair it might be to Rigo he has gone on to prove himself to be anathema to the majority of the viewing public. He hasn't headlined since and his purses have dropped significantly. Loma had a marginally better first headliner and has gone on to improve on that and engage the public. He hasn't drawn great numbers but no one has recently. That's the landscape at the moment, PPV saturated. Personally I love Rigo's his style but these things are what determine someone's offer. He's absolutely not as much of a draw as Loma.



poorface said:


> It's not unreasonable to suggest that it should be at least one factor accounted for, particularly since Lomachenko and Top Rank have been calling Rigondeaux out about as much as the other way around. If they want the fight, a more even split may be in order.


It is unreasonable I'm afraid. I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.



poorface said:


> Where has Rigondeaux demanded several million dollars for the fight? He's asking for the same amount he got against Donaire. You're simply treating Lomachenko's previous purse splits as reasonable by default and then suggesting that Rigondeaux getting that amount would entail Lomachenko getting so much as to make the fight impossible. But the point is Lomachenko doesn't need to get such splits automatically.


You're missing my point. Loma demanding several million would be the same as Rigo demanding 750k. Rigo got 120k in his last fight, Loma got 750k. Obviously Loma wouldn't "demand" 750k because that's around the minimum amount he would usually get. Rigo's making demands about purse amounts so I was suggesting that to make a comparable demand Loma would have to have been on record demanding several million.



poorface said:


> And fighters offering up portions of their own purse is almost always little more than promotional BS that never amounts to anything.


I actually agree with this. Rigo's team can't be expected to negotiate based on things like this that have been said. For me it shows Loma's attitude though. He wants the best and he's not the one making this fight difficult to make.

Give me an idea of what you would imagine a reasonable purse split would be. I don't want to put words in your mouth but it seems that you think 50% 750k for Rigo is acceptable. Would that be accurate?


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Not going to happen. I feel Lomachenko has eyes on Salido


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> You and I both know that Donaire was generating the majority of those views not Rigo. When Rigo had the opportunity to "sniff" at those numbers by himself he failed.


I never pretended that Donaire wasn't the A-side. But given the fact that it was above the average for Donaire, we don't get to pretend that Rigondeaux simply had nothing to do with it



> However unfair it might be to Rigo he has gone on to prove himself to be anathema to the majority of the viewing public. He hasn't headlined since and his purses have dropped significantly. Loma had a marginally better first headliner and has gone on to improve on that and engage the public. He hasn't drawn great numbers but no one has recently. That's the landscape at the moment, PPV saturated. Personally I love Rigo's his style but these things are what determine someone's offer. He's absolutely not as much of a draw as Loma.


See this is the thing I especially object to. You cite structural ratings decline for disappointing (and they are still disappointing) numbers from Lomachenko but take the single sample of the Agbeko fight to conclude that Rigondeaux is simply anathema to the majority of the viewing public. Lomachenko's first headliner by the way was preceded by a lot more exposure on HBO prior to that and against an opponent who was _not _an inactive African. And of course Arum has actually tried to promote Lomachenko rather than highlighting all of his negatives and crying that he was expected to do his job for Rigondeaux.

Obviously no one owes Rigondeaux anything outside of his current promotional team, but the rapidity with which definitive conclusions are reached about his drawing power stands in sharp contrast to the throat clearing reserved for Lomachenko and others.


> You're missing my point. Loma demanding several million would be the same as Rigo demanding 750k. Rigo got 120k in his last fight, Loma got 750k. Obviously Loma wouldn't "demand" 750k because that's around the minimum amount he would usually get. Rigo's making demands about purse amounts so I was suggesting that to make a comparable demand Loma would have to have been on record demanding several million.


You wrote: "If Rigo expects $750k then Loma would be expecting at least $2 million." But there's no particular reason Lomachenko would or should be expecting that unless we assume his purse splits are already completely reasonable.


> I actually agree with this. Rigo's team can't be expected to negotiate based on things like this that have been said. For me it shows Loma's attitude though. He wants the best and he's not the one making this fight difficult to make.


It's much ado about nothing and says nothing about how easy or hard fights are to make than if he was actually offering up portions of his purse prior to fight night.


> Give me an idea of what you would imagine a reasonable purse split would be. I don't want to put words in your mouth but it seems that you think 50% 750k for Rigo is acceptable. Would that be accurate?


I think at bare minimum he should be offered 40%/500k but that it's not unreasonable to aim higher given the fact that he would be the one taking most of the risk. I also think that the extremely lopsided nature of all of Lomachenko's last few fights on record (750k/50k for Marriaga, 1000k/300k for Walters, 850k/425k for Martinez, and 750k/35k for Koasicha) is one of the reasons he's been struggling to find better opponents in general, but the story instead has been portrayed as Salido and Rigondeaux and others making "unreasonable" demands.


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## thegee (Feb 10, 2017)

Any mention of real fighters getting or asking for $1 000,000 or $750,00, pales in to insignificance when that pair over in the Las Vegas circus are reported to be getting in the regionof $300, 000,000, or is it billion, between them, yes I knowthey are going to generate millions of viewers , so what? Lomo and Rigo willstill be throwing punches for at least another couple of years , While Mr you know who, and the other whatsis name , will disappear in to the blue horizon, unless of course they decide on a rematch? So come on , who cares if two fine boxers get a $3 million dollar purse between them, on the basis of their records alone they are worth every dollar. Regards Mervyn The Gee


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## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

Hope they can work out the money and fight.


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Not interested in it anymore. Loma is too big and Rigo seems to have last a step


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

poorface said:


> I never pretended that Donaire wasn't the A-side. But given the fact that it was above the average for Donaire, we don't get to pretend that Rigondeaux simply had nothing to do with it


 I think this is venturing into speculation. We agree Donaire was the A side and we know Rigo hasn't particularly generated interest since. Any verve Chacal generated going into that fight appears to have fizzled out.



poorface said:


> See this is the thing I especially object to. You cite structural ratings decline for disappointing (and they are still disappointing) numbers from Lomachenko but take the single sample of the Agbeko fight to conclude that Rigondeaux is simply anathema to the majority of the viewing public. Lomachenko's first headliner by the way was preceded by a lot more exposure on HBO prior to that and against an opponent who was _not _an inactive African. And of course Arum has actually tried to promote Lomachenko rather than highlighting all of his negatives and crying that he was expected to do his job for Rigondeaux.


 I'm not using Rigo vs Agbeko as a sample to conclude he's not popular. That's literally the only headline he's led so it's the only sample we have to gauge his earning power against Loma's. Rigo's un-marketability is well documented including HBO's apparent diagnosis of him as puke-worthy. I like the guy but he categorically is recognised, industry-wide, as neither a draw nor potential draw.



poorface said:


> You wrote: "If Rigo expects $750k then Loma would be expecting at least $2 million." But there's no particular reason Lomachenko would or should be expecting that unless we assume his purse splits are already completely reasonable.


 The reason he'd be expecting it is because that's what he's getting paid (percentage-wise). That makes it a reasonable expectation.



poorface said:


> I think at bare minimum he should be offered 40%/500k but that it's not unreasonable to aim higher given the fact that he would be the one taking most of the risk.


Ok let's work this out. 500k is 40% of 1.25 million. That's not a bad shout actually but it's 33% less than the minimum amount Rigo thinks he deserves. I'd be completely on board with Loma earning $1.25 million and Rigo getting 500k. Again, though, taking the risk doesn't earn more money in negotiations. Canelo didn't earn more because he took the Mayweather fight at 152. He took the fight at 152 because it earned him a lot of money.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

thegee said:


> Any mention of real fighters getting or asking for $1 000,000 or $750,00, pales in to insignificance when that pair over in the Las Vegas circus are reported to be getting in the regionof $300, 000,000, or is it billion, between them, yes I knowthey are going to generate millions of viewers , so what? Lomo and Rigo willstill be throwing punches for at least another couple of years , While Mr you know who, and the other whatsis name , will disappear in to the blue horizon, unless of course they decide on a rematch? So come on , who cares if two fine boxers get a $3 million dollar purse between them, on the basis of their records alone they are worth every dollar. Regards Mervyn The Gee


This is true and I didn't intend this thread to get derailed quite so quickly. That's probably my fault for preemptively putting the blame on Rigo. This would be my preferred fight for both Loma and Rigo. Absolutely the most skilled pairing in the history of the sport.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

DynamicMoves said:


> Hope they can work out the money and fight.


What's your avvy an x-ray of man? Like, a midget giraffe neck or something? What series of life choices led you to choose a midget giraffe neck x-ray as your avatar for a boxing forum? Or is it an album cover that I'm not aware of or something?


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## Tage_West (May 16, 2013)

people talking about "he doesnt draw enough" about both fighters. unfair, they are considered the two best in the world. you say they can't draw but that is because people have decided they can't draw. so many fighters over the years have just been plonked in front of us and we get told they are ppv draws. like jermain taylor, sergio mora, rocky juarez, lou saverese just to be basic.

and then we get fans who think they are cigar chomping suits while wearing a TK Maxx discount blazer, puffing on hamlets. saying "oh this isnt a draw, they will never be promoted to the vast monies they believe" *chortleing while swirlling E&J in a plastic tumbler* 

no promoter wants to promote the fight because they can't risk or dont see the profit margin. it's amazing. the type of people who see a gold mine and go "nah there is no money in this, theres loads of dirt in the way"

you have the 2 best athletes in boxing both from former soviet/communist country's who have come to live and work in the u.s. thats a story. they are both double olympians thats a story, they have the most amount of amatuer fights currantly pro, thats a story, one is latin and one is eastern european that a demographic that hasnt stopped any other fights from happening.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

thegee said:


> Any mention of real fighters getting or asking for $1 000,000 or $750,00, pales in to insignificance when that pair over in the Las Vegas circus are reported to be getting in the regionof $300, 000,000, or is it billion, between them, yes I knowthey are going to generate millions of viewers , so what? Lomo and Rigo willstill be throwing punches for at least another couple of years , While Mr you know who, and the other whatsis name , will disappear in to the blue horizon, unless of course they decide on a rematch? So come on , who cares if two fine boxers get a $3 million dollar purse between them, on the basis of their records alone they are worth every dollar. Regards Mervyn The Gee


You answered your own question:the circus will bring viewers. Rigo doesn't.

Boxing is entertainment and Rigo is not entertaining. He's bored the shit out of multiple PPV audiences, HBO audiences, all but a dozen Cubans.

Loma isn't exactly a household name, either.


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## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

Kurushi said:


> What's your avvy an x-ray of man? Like, a midget giraffe neck or something? What series of life choices led you to choose a midget giraffe neck x-ray as your avatar for a boxing forum? Or is it an album cover that I'm not aware of or something?


My dog.









It'll probably change soon, I lost an avatar bet.


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## thegee (Feb 10, 2017)

@JeffJoiner, Hi Jeff , if you read what I said about the circus bringing viewers, I said so what, and I"ll say it again "so what" I think you are being very unfair toward him He as had 17 fights without loss. "Boring"? you don"t win two "World". titles by being boring. Look at his record, , just a look at four, all had decent records 63-2-1, 28-4-2, 25-0-0, and in his eighth fight hefaced an opponent with a 20-0-0 record. Was his fight with Donaire a bore?, I don"t think so. Just because he is not a crash , bang wallop fighter , does"nt mean that he does"nt ouse skill I have already quoted what a World famous trainer said about him," He has the greatest talent that I have ever seen. I also believe that he is a very talented fighter, and if the fight with Lomo comes off, he will prove it. Regards Mervyn the Gee


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

These guys are competitors, the fact that they were able to compete at a high enough level for long enough to win two golds each in the amateurs tells you that they historically have had no problem fighting primarily for glory. Why is one of those guys now so concerned about his purse? I think I know why.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

DynamicMoves said:


> My dog.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope I haven't just put my foot in something man. Kratzke looks a good boy.


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## DynamicMoves (Apr 13, 2014)

Kurushi said:


> I hope I haven't just put my foot in something man. Kratzke looks a good boy.


She's pretty good. Got some work to do with her though, got her when she was 3.


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## thegee (Feb 10, 2017)

@dealt with, please enlighten me as to the reason why one of the fighters is concerned about his purse. I would have thought that his concern is centered around the fact that when you step in that ring you are getting the maximum purse that you possibly can. Re gards Mervyn the Gee.


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> I'm not using Rigo vs Agbeko as a sample to conclude he's not popular. That's literally the only headline he's led so it's the only sample we have to gauge his earning power against Loma's. Rigo's un-marketability is well documented including HBO's apparent diagnosis of him as puke-worthy. I like the guy but he categorically is recognised, industry-wide, as neither a draw nor potential draw.


That HBO quote came from Arum, whose sole intent in 2013 after Rigondeaux defeated Donaire seemed to be torpedoing him, which I would suggest also played a not insignificant role in the Agbeko fight. The point is that he wasn't doomed to that fate if he was for instance given the amount of leeway Lomachenko has received for his own poor ratings.


> The reason he'd be expecting it is because that's what he's getting paid (percentage-wise). That makes it a reasonable expectation.


It's reasonable if he wants to continue to fight the same level of opponent as he has been. Given how he's complained publicly about his level of competition, perhaps it's unreasonable to continue to demand that kind of cut against guys like Salido or Rigondeaux.


> Ok let's work this out. 500k is 40% of 1.25 million. That's not a bad shout actually but it's 33% less than the minimum amount Rigo thinks he deserves. I'd be completely on board with Loma earning $1.25 million and Rigo getting 500k. Again, though, taking the risk doesn't earn more money in negotiations.


I said that's the minimum he should be offered but there's certainly nothing unreasonable about pushing for more. Especially because the lead promoter is the same exact one that attempted to bury him after he beat Donaire. An


> Canelo didn't earn more because he took the Mayweather fight at 152. He took the fight at 152 because it earned him a lot of money.


This is a poor comparison since Mayweather was a bonafide draw capable of making his opponents rich as well and since Alvarez was definitely paid far better than the majority of his other opponents. Lomachenko's A-sidedness however seems to largely only benefit himself given the lopsided splits of the purses for all of his recent fights.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

poorface said:


> That HBO quote came from Arum, whose sole intent in 2013 after Rigondeaux defeated Donaire seemed to be torpedoing him, which I would suggest also played a not insignificant role in the Agbeko fight. The point is that he wasn't doomed to that fate if he was for instance given the amount of leeway Lomachenko has received for his own poor ratings.


This is true which is why I said "apparent". Arum was, no doubt, paraphrasing an HBO executive. And your analysis of Arum's role in Rigo's descent into irrelevance is also accurate. We know Arum shelved Rigo. If Bob thought Rigo could make money he would have invested in him the same way he's investing in Loma.



poorface said:


> This is a poor comparison since Mayweather was a bonafide draw capable of making his opponents rich as well and since Alvarez was definitely paid far better than the majority of his other opponents. Lomachenko's A-sidedness however seems to largely only benefit himself given the lopsided splits of the purses for all of his recent fights.


It's a good comparison because you claimed that the greater the risk the greater the reward. The extent to which a fighter makes their opponents rich doesn't come into this. You think Rigo should earn more because he claims he's willing to come up to 130. What I'm saying is Canelo didn't earn more because he agreed to come down to 152. He earned what he did because he was willing to agree to a catch-weight of 152.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

thegee said:


> @JeffJoiner, Hi Jeff , if you read what I said about the circus bringing viewers, I said so what, and I"ll say it again "so what" I think you are being very unfair toward him He as had 17 fights without loss. "Boring"? you don"t win two "World". titles by being boring. Look at his record, , just a look at four, all had decent records 63-2-1, 28-4-2, 25-0-0, and in his eighth fight hefaced an opponent with a 20-0-0 record. Was his fight with Donaire a bore?, I don"t think so. Just because he is not a crash , bang wallop fighter , does"nt mean that he does"nt ouse skill I have already quoted what a World famous trainer said about him," He has the greatest talent that I have ever seen. I also believe that he is a very talented fighter, and if the fight with Lomo comes off, he will prove it. Regards Mervyn the Gee


I loften look at the casual fans in the room. On the Cotto/Canelo under card they started checking their phones and asking me to flip to baseball games to see scores. That fight was straight boring.

The Donaire fight was far less than scintillating. In fact, it was dull enough that HBO didn't air Rigo's next fight. I get that a boxing purist might enjoy it, but boxing purists make up a very small percentage of the sports viewing land scape.

I fully understand that good should equal popular more often than it does and that what/who is popular is often not good. But I'm a businessman and I understand why a network wouldn't want to shell out more money than they will recoup. Loma's ratings weren't that great on ESPN.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Loma is in the driver's seat. Rigo better hop on quick before he drives away.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

rjjfan said:


> Loma is in the driver's seat. Rigo better hop on quick before he drives away.


You mean before Orlando picks him up via Uber.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

thegee said:


> @dealt with, please enlighten me as to the reason why one of the fighters is concerned about his purse. I would have thought that his concern is centered around the fact that when you step in that ring you are getting the maximum purse that you possibly can. Re gards Mervyn the Gee.


Mervyn at your age, how do you make it through a full Rigondeaux fight?

This is with all due respect, your humble internet pal Pedrin1787


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## Tage_West (May 16, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> You answered your own question:the circus will bring viewers. Rigo doesn't.
> 
> *Boxing is entertainment and Rigo is not entertaining. *He's bored the shit out of multiple PPV audiences, HBO audiences, all but a dozen Cubans.
> 
> Loma isn't exactly a household name, either.


he is entertaining, how ridiculous to say. nobody has watched floyd fights for his agression or his offensive style. rigo just gets bludgeoned into fighting no hopers at short notice on undercards. that isnt promoting your fighter that is just showcasing him. his only stink out was against francisco or cordoba. and that was literally the short notice fight to get on a big card.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Tage_West said:


> he is entertaining, how ridiculous to say. nobody has watched floyd fights for his agression or his offensive style. rigo just gets bludgeoned into fighting no hopers at short notice on undercards. that isnt promoting your fighter that is just showcasing him. his only stink out was against francisco or cordoba. and that was literally the short notice fight to get on a big card.


Agbeko was pretty boring too...


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

I wish Rigo would put out more performances like the Teon Kennedy one.

Guillermo looked LETHAL as fuck on that. It was such a delight to see.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> You mean before Orlando picks him up via Uber.


Sheeeeet, Orlando KO Rigo in 6.
:sheeeeit


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## Tage_West (May 16, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Agbeko was pretty boring too...


we dont talk about that. ever.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Tage_West said:


> we dont talk about that. ever.


Rigo killed his HBO/TR career with that one fight.

His fans love to blame Bop, but had Rigo shown up on that HBO card he was headlining, things would've gone very differently for him.


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## Tage_West (May 16, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Rigo killed his HBO/TR career with that one fight.
> 
> His fans love to blame Bop, but had Rigo shown up on that HBO card he was headlining, things would've gone very differently for him.


but either way its the tail wagging the dog. why do hbo get to decide and be the arbiter of taste? thats my main gripe. he can be boring against poor opponants. but agbeko didnt turn up. on a card that was on the same time as showtimes judah vs malignaggi


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## thegee (Feb 10, 2017)

@Pedrin1787, thats easy to answer. Because at my age I have been fortunate enough to watch a great number of boxers over the years, who are true exponents of the art. As just one example, Howard Winstone , very similar to Rigo, was he boring ?, no, but he was not a crash, bang , wallop merchant, neither is Rigo. It would appear that boxing in its true art form as disappeared. I love to see boxers box, such skill, Yes I also like to see the K/O"s but I will always like the Rigo"s of this world . Regards Mervyn The Gee


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

thegee said:


> @Pedrin1787, thats easy to answer. Because at my age I have been fortunate enough to watch a great number of boxers over the years, who are true exponents of the art. As just one example, Howard Winstone , very similar to Rigo, was he boring ?, no, but he was not a crash, bang , wallop merchant, neither is Rigo. It would appear that boxing in its true art form as disappeared. I love to see boxers box, such skill, Yes I also like to see the K/O"s but I will always like the Rigo"s of this world . Regards Mervyn The Gee


I completely understand Mervyn, still the reason I find Rigo boring is not because he's stingy with his "wallops". It's his complete lack of effort when fighting someone that he is clearly superior too.

I loved his fight against Donaire, it was amazing to see a previous "fighter of the year" get taken to school, I enjoyed every minute of it.

Now look at the Agbeko fight, a card Rigo was headlining for HBO. He gets in there with a guy who went into survival mode very early in the fight. What does Rigo do? Pretty much the bare minimum to clear the rounds. I did not enjoy that at all. I didn't expect him to throw caution to the wind and start windmilling like bumsquad Wilder. I expected him to at least make an attempt to get his guy out of there, considering the level gap between him and his opponent.

See Lomachenko Marriaga. Marriaga was in pure survival mode very early and Loma did not sit back and cruise to a UD, he made a a very clear effort to please the fans that paid to watch him fight.

To be completely fair, Rigo has stepped it up since the Agbeko fight, but I think it's too little too late.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Tage_West said:


> but either way its the tail wagging the dog. why do hbo get to decide and be the arbiter of taste? thats my main gripe. he can be boring against poor opponants. but agbeko didnt turn up. on a card that was on the same time as showtimes judah vs malignaggi


LOL, you think HBO "decided" that fight was boring? Did you not hear the crowd booing then see them leaving? I'm guessing HBO told them to?


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## Tage_West (May 16, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> LOL, you think HBO "decided" that fight was boring? Did you not hear the crowd booing then see them leaving? I'm guessing HBO told them to?


no no no. don't be silly. rigo has been since that fight, blackballed from hbo. but not just hbo, his promoter/top rank and other promoters also wouldnt pick him up. thats my point.

tv should document the sport. not the other way round.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Tage_West said:


> no no no. don't be silly. rigo has been since that fight, blackballed from hbo. but not just hbo, his promoter/top rank and other promoters also wouldnt pick him up. thats my point.
> 
> tv should document the sport. not the other way round.


TV is there to make money, like it or not. They decided they were not going to benefit from airing Rigo, so they chose not to. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but unfortunately it is what it is.

Bop and HBO have competitors, you think they control who their competitors sign and work with?


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/899154089329790977


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## thegee (Feb 10, 2017)

@Kurushi, I hope that Arum does have a deal for Rigo, this will be a great fight. I am sure that Rigo"s doubters will have to eat a decent amount of humble pie when Rigo is finally able to show the boxing world how talented he really is. Regards Mervyn The Gee


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## Rigondeaux (Jun 3, 2013)

poorface said:


> All the talk about Rigondeaux making ridiculous demands when he's not a draw is amusing since Lomachenko's own guarantees are pretty inflated relative to his drawing power.


Someone with a brain


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/899157852048179200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/899359647278047232
NY, winter. Less than subtle nod to the MSG in December chatter but good fun nonetheless :happy


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/899235851460325376


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

It's important to remember Agbeko completely shut down in that fight and made it almost impossible for Rigo to look good.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> It's important to remember Agbeko completely shut down in that fight and made it almost impossible for Rigo to look good.


The same can be said for Marriaga. My problem wasn't as much with Rigo "not looking good" or not getting the knockout, it was the clear lack of effort. No sense of urgency at all, content with doing the bare minimum from what I remember. It's legal sure, but that is not going to please anyone.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> The same can be said for Marriaga. My problem wasn't as much with Rigo "not looking good" or not getting the knockout, it was the clear lack of effort. No sense of urgency at all, content with doing the bare minimum from what I remember. It's legal sure, but that is not going to please anyone.


I thought Marriaga was a lot less.

Rigo pressed, he just didn't go all out, which isn't really a fair thing to ask a natural counter-puncher to do. Rigo needs willing opponents. Agbeko was completely negative and didn't open up at all. Mares would have been such a good fight.


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I thought Marriaga was a lot less.
> 
> Rigo pressed, he just didn't go all out, which isn't really a fair thing to ask a natural counter-puncher to do. Rigo needs willing opponents. Agbeko was completely negative and didn't open up at all. Mares would have been such a good fight.


Yeah there were multiple fights on HBO in that time period where opponents went risk averse and the fight ended up boring. Crawford-Klimas and Garcia-Burgos are the two that immediately spring to mind. Yet in those cases, all of the blame was shifted to the opponent yet in Rigondeaux's the majority of the blame appears to fall on him. And I would agree that Agbeko fought _far _more cynically than those other opponents.

I would also add that Gary Hyde specifically went to HBO and Arum and told them he expected Agbeko to fight that way, yet Bob didn't give a damn and went ahead with that match-up against an inactive African Don King fighter. This was a rather interesting move given the amount of action fighters and names Top Rank had at 126 at the time, like Vic, Miijares, and Terrazas.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Tage_West said:


> he is entertaining, how ridiculous to say. nobody has watched floyd fights for his agression or his offensive style. rigo just gets bludgeoned into fighting no hopers at short notice on undercards. that isnt promoting your fighter that is just showcasing him. his only stink out was against francisco or cordoba. and that was literally the short notice fight to get on a big card.


To the masses, and even sometimes to hard cores, Rigo fights too negatively. Had his performance against Donaire been eventful, HBO would have brought him back.

Casual fans know him from stinking out the joint on PPV cards. He was set up to showcase himself on Canelo/Cotto and failed to do so. You can't blame fans for not wanting to see that again.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I thought Marriaga was a lot less.
> 
> Rigo pressed, he just didn't go all out, which isn't really a fair thing to ask a natural counter-puncher to do. Rigo needs willing opponents. Agbeko was completely negative and didn't open up at all. Mares would have been such a good fight.


As I said before I did not expect him to go all out, and yes he did press, but just enough to clear rounds.

I expect a lot more for someone at that level when they're fighting a guy that is at least a couple levels below.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

*Arum Gives Latest on Lomachenko vs. Rigondeaux Fight*​_So is a showdown between a pair of two-time Olympic gold medalists, Vasyl Lomachenko and Guillermo Rigondeaux on the horizon?_

_There has been more than a fair share of barking between the two camps on social media the past several weeks. Now it looks like some real progress has been made to actually get the two world champions in the ring together._

_"We've had very good negotiations," said Bob Arum, who's company Top Rank, represents Lomachenko (the current WBO 130-pound titlist). "Dino (Duva) and myself have gone back and forth, we're circulating documents now and hopefully it'll all get signed up. Is it done, yet? No. But you can't help but be optimistic it's going to get done."_

_Rigondeaux (17-0, 11 KOs), who is the WBA 122-pound champion, is promoted by Roc Nation Sports._

_Back on August 5th, Lomachenko (9-1, 7 KOs) dominated Miguel Marriaga at the Microsoft Theater in Los Angeles, while Rigondeaux had a no-contest against Moises Flores on June 17th at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas._

_The plan according to Arum is to have Lomachenko-Rigondeaux take place on December 9th at the Theater of Madison Square Garden in New York on ESPN. It looks like this fight will be contested at 130 pounds - with Rigondeaux making good on his promise to move up by two weight divisions to take the fight._

_Rigondeaux's last outing took place on HBO Pay-Per-View as part of the Ward-Kovalev II undercard, when he scored a controversial first round knockout of Moises Flores. The outcome was later reversed to a no-decision, after the Nevada State Athletic Commission had ruled that Rigondeaux has inadvertently hit Flores after the bell. The WBA ordered him to have an immediate rematch With Flores, but he will likely seek special permission to take the Lomachenko bout._
​Nothing particularly new here except for direct quotes from Arum but they seem positive.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Bob Arum on if Lomachenko-Rigondeaux is 100% a done deal:






*Arum*: _"Nothing is 100% done until it happens. But it's gonna happen_ [on] _December 9th."_​
*Interviewer*: _"Does it have a co-feature yet or is that still being worked on?"_​
*Arum*:_ "It's December man! I mean, Jesus Christ!"
_​
Meanwhile on Twitter...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/901711903080120325

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/901809460548472832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/901840294856974336
Christ! Rigo sounding cringy as hell there :lol:


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## Kid Cubano (Jun 5, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Bob Arum on if Lomachenko-Rigondeaux is 100% a done deal:
> 
> *Arum*: _"Nothing is 100% done until it happens. But it's gonna happen_ [on] _December 9th."_​
> *Interviewer*: _"Does it have a co-feature yet or is that still being worked on?"_​
> ...


you are aware that Rigo doesn't write those tweets, are you?


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Fuck, this is looking like it might actually be happening! What a way to end a great year!!


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Kid Cubano said:


> you are aware that Rigo doesn't write those tweets, are you?


Whether he writes them or not it is a verified account so the tweets represent him and he can be criticised for them.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

https://www.badlefthook.com/2017/8/...enough-loma-rigo-gonna-happen-on-december-9th

Arum says it's happening. Nevermind, Kurushi already posted it.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/903102245335588864


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## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

Kurushi said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/903102245335588864


Rigo looking very ET-like.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/903102245335588864


People claiming this guy can't move up a weight division or two are out of their mind. He posted himself on a scale a few days ago weighing 129. If he's that skinny and lean at 129 he could lift some weights and fight as a full fledged 135.


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## thegee (Feb 10, 2017)

@dealtwith, I am not out of my mind, I think Rigo is a great fighter , but whether he weighed 129 he few days ago, the point is he as never fought at 130, thats the difference. To pretend that it is "nt thats what a little bit out of your mind means. Regards Mervyn The Gee


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

thegee said:


> @dealtwith, I am not out of my mind, I think Rigo is a great fighter , but whether he weighed 129 he few days ago, the point is he as never fought at 130, thats the difference. To pretend that it is "nt thats what a little bit out of your mind means. Regards Mervyn The Gee


Speak Engrish motherfucker


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## oldjoe (Jun 25, 2017)




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## MyName (Jun 26, 2013)

129 walking around is quite light by today;standard's of super bantamweights.

Ronny Rios was 133 in the ring last weekend.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MyName said:


> 129 walking around is quite light by today;standard's of super bantamweights.
> 
> Ronny Rios was 133 in the ring last weekend.


Rigo is a guy who is constantly training hard. His walking weight out of camp if he was like other fighters would be 135-140.


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Rigo is a guy who is constantly training hard. His walking weight out of camp if he was like other fighters would be 135-140.


I in fact think he'd be _even heavier_ than Lomachenko ceteris paribus, and that the Lomachenko haters need to acknowledge the sheer courage of "Hi Tech" by taking on a bigger opponent yet again in his young professional career.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

As sure as night follows day, poorface will criticise Lomachenko every chance he gets


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

JamieC said:


> As sure as night follows day, poorface will criticise Lomachenko every chance he gets


LOL, I have less than 50 posts that even mention him here and most of them had far more to do with his dumber partisan fans than Lomachenko specifically (as with the reply above, for instance).

Though I guess if you are one such dumb partisan fan, anything that mentions him without the most effusive praise possible looks like criticism.


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

poorface said:


> LOL, I have less than 50 posts that even mention him here and most of them had far more to do with his dumber partisan fans than Lomachenko specifically (as with the reply above, for instance).
> 
> Though I guess if you are one such dumb partisan fan, anything that mentions him without the most effusive praise possible looks like criticism.


You're obsessed with him :lol: every thread about him always has you criticising him.


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## Deckard (Jul 25, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> People claiming this guy can't move up a weight division or two are out of their mind. He posted himself on a scale a few days ago weighing 129. If he's that skinny and lean at 129 he could lift some weights and fight as a full fledged 135.


He needs to get on Manny's and Marquez's Philipino and Tijuana supplements.


----------



## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

JamieC said:


> You're obsessed with him :lol: every thread about him always has you criticising him.


If your standards for what constitutes obsession are that low, you're clearly obsessed with me.


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## Deckard (Jul 25, 2012)

This will be the most technical and skilled fight in a very long time. The level of skill will make Canelo-Golovkin look like two bum brawlers. I bet it's a boring as shit though. I just wish it was at 126lbs to make it a bit fairer. I bet if Loma wins everyone will bitch about how it was unfair for Rigo and how he fought well above his weight.


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

poorface said:


> If your standards for what constitutes obsession are that low, you're clearly obsessed with me.


Even in the Crawford Indongo thread you criticise the card Loma is on :lol:


----------



## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Even in the Crawford Indongo thread you criticise the card Loma is on :lol:


Uh that was a thread about the announcement of _both _Top Rank on ESPN cards (note the inclusion of "and Loma-Marriaga on ESPN" in the thread title), so I'd say in fact that discussion of Lomachenko-Marriaga was in fact reasonable and relevant. Please though, continue to go through my search history whilst lecturing me for being obsessed :lol:.


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

poorface said:


> Uh that was a thread about the announcement of _both _Top Rank on ESPN cards (note the inclusion of "and Loma-Marriaga on ESPN" in the thread title), so I'd say in fact that discussion of Lomachenko-Marriaga was in fact reasonable and relevant. Please though, continue to go through my search history whilst lecturing me for being obsessed :lol:.


Wasn't even your search history was just memory. Obviously you had to find a place to criticise Loma so again any thread with him in is fair game. Whatever you do you it's just weird you never give him any credit whatsoever despite him clearly being an elite talent and clearly chasing the best fighters.


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Wasn't even your search history was just memory. Obviously you had to find a place to criticise Loma so again any thread with him in is fair game. Whatever you do you it's just weird you never give him any credit whatsoever despite him clearly being an elite talent and clearly chasing the best fighters.


Okay, well your totally unobsessed memory was off because it was a thread about Lomachenko-Marriaga as well.

I find your victim complex about someone saying things other than unequivocal praise of Lomachenko far weirder than my basic points that Lomachenko-Marriaga was a shit fight and that Lomachenko gets paid far more than his actual drawing power would predict. Those have been my biggest "criticisms" in the past year when I'd say they're both perfectly reasonable and backed by facts. The fact that you take those as some kind of personal attack on Lomachenko shows you're a far bigger fanboy than I am a critic.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

poorface said:


> *Lomachenko gets paid far more than his actual drawing power would predict.* Those have been my biggest "criticisms" in the past year when I'd say they're both perfectly reasonable and backed by facts.


It's curious to single Lomachenko out for this. There are many fighters out there getting paid more than Loma and ratings, in general, are increasingly coming back lower than expected in what appears to be a trend. What makes an acceptable purse:ratings ratio would be an interesting discussion actually. Haymon and Roc Nation are good examples of fighters getting overpayed. Rigo, for example, got 10 million for his 4 year contract and even at the time, as it has continued to be, his drawing power was overwhelmingly agreed to be very poor.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

poorface said:


> Okay, well your totally unobsessed memory was off because it was a thread about Lomachenko-Marriaga as well.
> 
> I find your victim complex about someone saying things other than unequivocal praise of Lomachenko far weirder than my basic points that Lomachenko-Marriaga was a shit fight and that Lomachenko gets paid far more than his actual drawing power would predict. Those have been my biggest "criticisms" in the past year when I'd say they're both perfectly reasonable and backed by facts. The fact that you take those as some kind of personal attack on Lomachenko shows you're a far bigger fanboy than I am a critic.


You've never said anything positive about a guy that is clearly an elite talent and wants to make the best fights in the sport, it's bizarre and there's clearly a reason for it but whatever it's just amusing to see :lol:


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

And yet poorface is still more right than Dealt With.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> And yet poorface is still more right than Dealt With.


And I've always been more right about Lomachenko than you, so....


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> It's curious to single Lomachenko out for this. There are many fighters out there getting paid more than Loma and ratings, in general, are increasingly coming back lower than expected in what appears to be a trend. What makes an acceptable purse:ratings ratio would be an interesting discussion actually. Haymon and Roc Nation are good examples of fighters getting overpayed. Rigo, for example, got 10 million for his 4 year contract and even at the time, as it has continued to be, his drawing power was overwhelmingly agreed to be very poor.


Uh what? How is it "singling out" Lomachenko for this when Roc Nation and especially Haymon fighters have indeed been getting torn to bits for their purses for _years_?

In fact I'd say Lomachenko more often than not escapes the kind of point I was raising precisely because he's associated with Bob rather than Al or Roc. No one aside from me hardly ever mentions his mediocre ratings at all, whereas the piss poor numbers Ward has consistently done with Roc Nation are eagerly brought up even on threads that have little do with drawing power.


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

JamieC said:


> You've never said anything positive about a guy that is clearly an elite talent and wants to make the best fights in the sport, it's bizarre and there's clearly a reason for it but whatever it's just amusing to see :lol:


Uh I don't say much that's just boring vacuous praise for Ward or Gonzalez or Golovkin or other top P4P talent who also want to make the best fights in the sport either. I see little reason to do so. It's amusing to see however that it's only the Lomachenko fans who appear to have a persecution complex and demand I pay tribute or insist that I'm a bastion of negativity for calling a shit fight like Lomachenko-Marriaga a shit fight.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

poorface said:


> Uh what? How is it "singling out" Lomachenko for this when Roc Nation and especially Haymon fighters have indeed been getting torn to bits for their purses for _years_?
> 
> In fact I'd say Lomachenko more often than not escapes the kind of point I was raising precisely because he's associated with Bob rather than Al or Roc. No one aside from me hardly ever mentions his mediocre ratings at all, whereas the piss poor numbers Ward has consistently done with Roc Nation are eagerly brought up even on threads that have little do with drawing power.


Seems odd for it to be your biggest criticism of Lomachenko then with so many better examples to choose from. If Loma isn't criticised as much as you'd like for this then it's probably because he's not the best example of it.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

poorface said:


> Uh I don't say much that's just boring vacuous praise for Ward or Gonzalez or Golovkin or other top P4P talent who also want to make the best fights in the sport either. I see little reason to do so. It's amusing to see however that it's only the Lomachenko fans who appear to have a persecution complex and demand I pay tribute or insist that I'm a bastion of negativity for calling a shit fight like Lomachenko-Marriaga a shit fight.


Again I've done nothing of the sort. I just noted you are a pretty prolific poster in threads about Lomachenko and for a guy that does everything hardcore fans want, it is notable you have never made a positive post about him. It would also be weird if you had done the same about Gonzalez or whoever but you don't, you have a Lomachenko issue for some reason. Carry on anyway.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

poorface said:


> It's amusing to see however that it's only the Lomachenko fans who appear to have a persecution complex and demand I pay tribute or insist that I'm a bastion of negativity.


Oh dear, you're one of those kinds of posters who don't like your criticisms being challenged so you characterise people as having a "persecution complex" or being "demanding". That's quite a dramatic reaction.


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Seems odd for it to be your biggest criticism of Lomachenko then with so many better examples to choose from. If Loma isn't criticised as much as you'd like for this then it's probably because he's not the best example of it.


Holding Lomachenko to the same standards others consistently hold other boxers to, again, is not a matter of "singling out." I also hardly see how it constitutes much of a criticism of him specifically, rather than his promoter. And as I noted before, I'd suggest the main reason this doesn't get brought up as much for him is precisely because his promoter is not Al or Roc Nation; Top Rank consistently gets passes those two don't from many boxing fans.


Kurushi said:


> Oh dear, you're one of those kinds of posters who don't like your criticisms being challenged so you characterise people as having a "persecution complex" or being "demanding". That's quite a dramatic reaction.


No, I haven't said anything personal or dramatic in response to any of my disagreements with you.

@JamieC however has done absolutely nothing to challenge any point I've raised. He rushed into the thread to declare me a Lomachenko hater for making a post simply mocking @Dealt_with and has now been prattling on for 2 pages about me being a big ol' meanie because in between my posts about Lomachenko-Marriaga being a bad fight and Lomachenko being paid like a bigger draw than he is, I failed to pay sufficient tribute to his marvelous footwork and his courageous demeanor or something.


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## poorface (Jun 14, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Again I've done nothing of the sort. I just noted you are a pretty prolific poster in threads about Lomachenko and for a guy that does everything hardcore fans want, it is notable you have never made a positive post about him. It would also be weird if you had done the same about Gonzalez or whoever but you don't, you have a Lomachenko issue for some reason. Carry on anyway.


Again, I'm hardly a "prolific" Lomachenko poster at all. I had less than 50 posts about him in the 4 years I've been on this site and I've probably nearly doubled the amount I've talked to him in the last year by simply indulging your whining about me here.

I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings as a Lomachenko fan that I've seen little reason to post banal praise, but as I said previously, I don't post banal praise about anyone else either. That doesn't mean I have issues with Lomachenko specifically unless, again, you think anyone raising any point about him that seems the least bit critical automatically makes someone a hater.


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## thegee (Feb 10, 2017)

@Dealt with, MUCHAS GRACIAS, that"s Spanish for "Thank you very much". Why you had to send such a pathetic reply to the Ligo discussion I don"t understand. You appear to be the only one on the forum that does not understand English. All I stated was, It"s one thing to weigh 129 at the moment, but Ligo as never fought at 130 , and if you know your boxing, moving up and fighting someone like Lomo will make a difference . Not agreeing with me is fine, but try and justify your reasoning, instead of the reply that was left for me . Regards Mervyn The Gee


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

*Rigondeaux's Coach Warns: Lomachenko is Not at This P4P Level!*​
_Pedro Diaz, trainer of Guillermo Rigondeaux, is laughing at a recent statement made by Top Rank's CEO Bob Arum, who handles Vasyl Lomachenko.

Following Lomachenko's most recent victory over Miguel Marriaga, Arum compared the Ukrainian boxer to heavyweight legend Muhammad Ali.

"That's the biggest disrespect I've heard from a promoter. How are you going to compare Lomachenko to Ali? He's trying to sell [Lomachneko], but I'm not going to buy into Lomachenko with Ali, that's disrespectful," Diaz told George Ebro.

Diaz also finds it odd that some have Lomachenko listed as the best pound-for-pound boxer in the sport.

In the opinion of Diaz, Lomachenko has a long way to go before he is considered to be one of the best pound-for-pound boxers in the sport, and he details his own personal list of who belongs in the elite class of pound-for-pound fighters.

"I do not know why [he is listed as such], because Lomachenko still has to learn a lot to get to the level of Rigo. Pound for pound ... when you talk about boxing art, competitive quality, a warrior who thinks, who moves well at all distances... then we talk about Floyd [Mayweather], [Andre] Ward, [Mikey] Garcia, [Terence] Crawford and Rigo, and then, much later, we talk about Lomachenko," Diaz said"._​


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Deckard said:


> This will be the most technical and skilled fight in a very long time. The level of skill will make Canelo-Golovkin look like two bum brawlers. I bet it's a boring as shit though. I just wish it was at 126lbs to make it a bit fairer. I bet if Loma wins everyone will bitch about how it was unfair for Rigo and how he fought well above his weight.


I think 126 would be better, I'm sure Loma could still make it


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

poorface said:


> Uh what? How is it "singling out" Lomachenko for this when Roc Nation and especially Haymon fighters have indeed been getting torn to bits for their purses for _years_?
> 
> In fact I'd say Lomachenko more often than not escapes the kind of point I was raising precisely because he's associated with Bob rather than Al or Roc. No one aside from me hardly ever mentions his mediocre ratings at all, whereas the piss poor numbers Ward has consistently done with Roc Nation are eagerly brought up even on threads that have little do with drawing power.


Not much he can do though, he's already playing with his opponents. People simply don't like watching the smaller guys


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> And I've always been more right about Lomachenko than you, so....


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/905143190990217216
I'm guessing this means the fight isn't finalised just yet.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

I'm starting to believe that Rigo actually wants it, and I'm starting to believe Loma's team are dragging their feet. That's the feeling I'm getting from this. Don't make me become team Rigo...


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> I'm starting to believe that Rigo actually wants it, and I'm starting to believe Loma's team are dragging their feet. That's the feeling I'm getting from this. Don't make me become team Rigo...


You're giving their social media waaaay too much credit.

Rigo has a fat neckbeard that sits around all day posting dumb challenges and memes to social media, as him.

Check out the tweet history it's ridiculous.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

@Pedrin1787 You've awoken the beast mate:


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Kurushi said:


> @Pedrin1787 You've awoken the beast mate:


:rofl


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> @Pedrin1787 You've awoken the beast mate:


:rofl:rofl

I thought this was real for a second there.


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## thegee (Feb 10, 2017)

@Pedrin 1787, So did I, only joking, but I still hope that it happens , Regards Mmervyn The Gee


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> @Pedrin1787 You've awoken the beast mate:


:rofl:rofl:rofl


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## UK fight fan (Apr 22, 2016)

Strike said:


> I don't think it happens. Rigo's career has been such a let down and it has to be the people around him. I don't think for a second that either Rigo or Loma would shy away from the challenge, they both have elite skillsets and high self belief, but whereas Loma's team seem to do a reasonable job, Rigo's have fucked some of the best year's of his career.
> 
> Then again, 2017 has been amazing for getting the fights that seemed like they'd never happen, so fingers crossed this is another one.


I'm not convinced Rigondeaux won't. He has that guaranteed contract with Roc Nation and why fight Lomachenko when you can fight Jazza Dickens if you're getting the same money. I've always got the impression a lot of stuff Rigo has done in recent years (stinking joints out on PPV, forgetting he needs a VISA, etc) have been for self-sabotage purposes.

So if this fight does go ahead, I might start to wonder if Roc Nation are finished in the sport with Cotto leaving without doing the 3rd fight, rumors Ward is talking with Bob Arum and so forth. Always wondered why they flush so much money down the shitter.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

*Leo Santa Cruz: Lomachenko is Too Big - He Beats Rigondeaux!*​
_If a deal is finalized, the month of December could have one of the most interesting fights of the year.

There are ongoing discussions to finalize a deal where WBA super bantamweight champion Guillermo Rigondeaux would move up by two weight divisions to challenge WBO super featherweight champion Vasyl Lomachenko.

The bout would match up two boxers who are regarded as two of the best amateur fighters in history. Adding to that, each boxer has won Olympic gold on two occasions - setting up what may be the very first time where two, two-time Olympic gold medal winners have collided in the ring.

Rigondeaux is considered most experts to be the top fighter at 122-pounds, while Lomachenko is viewed as the top man at 130-pounds. The man who is currently regarded as the number one fighter at 126, the division between the two previously mentioned weights, is WBA featherweight champion Leo Santa Cruz.

Santa Cruz is confident Lomachenko will come out on top in that fight. He feels Lomachenko is just too big and too strong for the much smaller Rigondeaux. While Lomachenko has the edge with a few inches in height and certainly some additional size, the interesting thing is Rigondeaux is listed as having the longer reach, at 68 inches to Loma's 65.5.

Santa Cruz is also concerned with Rigondeaux's ability to take a good punch. The talented Cuban fighter has been knocked down in several fights.

"I think Lomachenko [will win] because he's the bigger guy and stronger. Rigondeaux, I think you can catch him with good shots and drop him. They say that he really don't have that good of a chin. I think Lomachenko is stronger and he can catch him - and really hurt him or drop him. I just think Lomachenko is too big for him,"_​


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## Danimal (Oct 9, 2013)

I'm not so excited about this fight tbh. I feel like Rigo would just be doing it for a payday as he must know Loma is way too big for him. JFW to JLW is a pretty crazy jump to be making at 36. Especially when the JLW is legit P4P.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

*Rigondeaux ready to fight Lomachenko on Dec 9, awaits firm response*​_Boris Arencibia, president of Caribe Promotions, a promoter representing Guillermo Rigondeaux, was talking to Frases de Boxeo Plus about what is being worked on for a fight between the Cuban star and the Ukrainian virtuoso Vasyl Lomachenko, which could be done this year.

"So far everything is going well, talking about Rigondeaux team, we have already reached certain agreements and the ball has been on their side (Lomachenko) for a long time, and it seems that Lomachenko has not made the decision.

"They said that they are interested in the fight, and Guillermo Rigondeaux almost every day has expressed by social networks and through the pages of boxing he is ready to face Lomachenko on December 9."

Arencibia expresses that both Rigondeaux and his work team are with the best of the attitudes and wanting that the combat takes place, however there is no concrete answer yet by Vasyl or his team.

"We verbally approve the agreements, now it seems they are arguing with Lomachenko and he has not made the decision yet.

"Roc Nation and Caribe Promotions have already made the decision and we want that fight, Bob Arum has expressed that he also wants the fight and it seems to me that Lomachenko has not yet said anything publicly."

Both Rigondeaux and Arencibia are very clear in the challenge that would be accepted if the fight is concrete. Rigo is motivated to rise up the divisions without any impediment.

But doubts remain as to the reason why Lomachenko and his team do not respond even to the challenges of the Cuban boxer._​


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Loma ducking


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## oldjoe (Jun 25, 2017)

Been a while since Arum said anything on this


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## Bernard Black (Mar 7, 2015)

Dealt_with said:


> Loma ducking


I am amazed you admitted this.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Bernard Black said:


> I am amazed you admitted this.


I'm not like others, I'm always on the side of the truth. That's why I said that Lomachenko is a boxing genius and an ATG before he turned pro. I still believe everything I've said about Loma vs Floyd and others.
I'm speaking from a position of ignorance on this, I can't really claim Loma is ducking at this point. But the silence is saying a lot and I'm getting concerned. Rigo has avoided the fight in the past but now it seems like he definitely wants it. Lomachenko looked average in his last fight and now it looks like they are not sure on Rigo. I highly doubt Loma would duck Rigo from a competitive perspective but perhaps the money or the Salido option is proving an issue.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

For what it's worth, several bookies are taking bets on this fight now. I think these have all gone up in the last 24 hours.

Loma mostly 1/4. Rigo mostly 11/4

Announcement imminent?


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## Bernard Black (Mar 7, 2015)

Official


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## Bernard Black (Mar 7, 2015)

Heard it here first btw


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## Bernard Black (Mar 7, 2015)




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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

@Dealt_with you don't have to be running your mouth on social media everyday to get shit done.

Have more faith in your boy.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Imagine thinking Loma would duck a challenge


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Bernard Black said:


>


Loma is not god - never doubt him, @Dealt_with.


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

It's SIGNED!


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

It's SIGNED!


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

Your last idol's final stand, @V-2


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

I'm so excited that I want to throw up right now. I only want to see this fight if Rigondeaux wins, which I'm convinced he won't. He has all the courage in the world for even taking this fight at 130 lbs. War Rigondeaux!


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)




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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

What a year. What a fucking year!


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

Lomachenko by knockout. Rigo will win some rounds, but eventually Lomachenko's activity will catch up with him.


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## nuclear (Jun 15, 2015)

does it say what weight theyre fighting at? 


the skill in this fight will be ridiculous..


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

nuclear said:


> does it say what weight theyre fighting at?
> 
> the skill in this fight will be ridiculous..


130 lbs.


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## mrtony80 (Jun 8, 2013)

It baffles me how anyone could think Lomachenko will knock Rigo out. I think he'll win by decision, with his size advantage being the determining factor, for the most part. What a display of skills this will be!


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## Doc (Jun 6, 2013)

draw 

bob to the rescue. lol


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

mrtony80 said:


> It baffles me how anyone could think Lomachenko will knock Rigo out. I think he'll win by decision, with his size advantage being the determining factor, for the most part. What a display of skills this will be!


Rigo is substantially smaller and doesn't have the most solid chin. I am quite confident that is exactly what will happen. I hope you're right.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/908746892527448066

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/908747129996406785


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## mrtony80 (Jun 8, 2013)

The Sweet Science said:


> Rigo is substantially smaller and doesn't have the most solid chin. I am quite confident that is exactly what will happen. I hope you're right.


Rigo doesn't have the best chin, but Loma isn't a power puncher, either. And he won't mentally wilt like Loma's last few opponents.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

mrtony80 said:


> Rigo doesn't have the best chin, but Loma isn't a power puncher, either. And he won't mentally wilt like Loma's last few opponents.


I think "doesnt have the best chin" is an understatement, he got knocked down by a jab once, and has been down multiple times for someone who is supposed to be a defensive genius. He doesn't seem to have much issues recovering though, he may be like Marquez, not too hard to put down but good luck putting them away.






If Loma can do this, he can knockout Rigo.

That being said, I don't think he'll press for a KO. I picked stoppage because Rigo is smaller and has been looking a bit rusty, but I wouldn't count on it.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

I'm excited to see how Lomachenko handles the low almost to the knees defense of Rigo. He uses his height disadvantage beautifully so ordinary boxers can't stop him from using it.


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

rjjfan said:


> I'm excited to see how Lomachenko handles the low almost to the knees defense of Rigo. He uses his height disadvantage beautifully so ordinary boxers can't stop him from using it.


It will most definitely be interesting to see. I fully expect Rigo to make Loma miss a lot. But, I truly feel as though Rigo would have to absolutely box the perfect match to be victorious here. I just don't see it.


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## Crean (May 19, 2013)

Oh shit.

This is gonna be great.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Imagine thinking Loma would duck a challenge





Lester1583 said:


> Loma is not god - never doubt him, @Dealt_with.


Today I bow my head in shame as I cry tears of joy.
I never really doubted Loma in my heart, I was just speaking from frustration at the time delay waiting for the official announcement.
I know Lomachenko's character and his willingness to take on any challenge. This is an insane fight, big credit to Rigo for finding his balls.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

The Sweet Science said:


> It will most definitely be interesting to see. I fully expect Rigo to make Loma miss a lot. But, I truly feel as though Rigo would have to absolutely box the perfect match to be victorious here. I just don't see it.


I think Rigo will need to be even more aggressive with his probes and force Loma to fight his way in every inch. Basically throwing fast shots against Loma's guard and glide to the side when Loma comes in, like a matador. I see Loma using his footwork to move in from angles that I'm sure Rigo knows and will use his low to the ground defense to counter.

The more I think about it, it is not the wipeout I thought it was. The only question is Rigo's age, can he keep it up?


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