# I´m picking Jacobs... because....



## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

I really believe Golovkin gets hit not because he trusts his chin like many say or because he can´t be bothered about defending against people he has no respect for...... 

I think he really doesn´t have great defense...... I know I know, he occasionally shows good head movement, but defense in Boxing is something done by instinct inside the ring, after too much training you don´t think consciously anymore about moving your head, you just do... you simply do... and GGG doesn´t do it too much, he is not defensive minded ! 
His boxing brain is not disciplined enough to make him do it all the times he needs it. I will never believe someone gets hit by pro boxers because he wants to... punches hurt.

Looking at some of his fights, Stevens, Murray, Brook...... In my mind there is no doubt that the damage would be very different if it was someone like JAcobs in there..

I am a little biased towards Jacobs..... but I think he wins while behind on the scorecards. I beleive we could have a Fight of the Year candidate in our hands too !

I will eat my words without a problem if I´m wrong.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

That's fair. Jacobs can lol GGG if he lands enough clean. I'm not confident that he'll land more often though or first


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## OneTime (Nov 10, 2014)

That's bullshit about GGG letting people hit him. No one wants to get hit. 

Maybe mayorga but that's about it.


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

Golovkin often shows cute head movement on the way forward, but on the way back, there's not much at all. That said, I do think he'll negotiate this fight OK, with maybe a few more difficulties than the Lemieux fight


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## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

Around 43:54 Jones says "Golovkin doesn't have to be this close." It's essentially why GGG gets hit as much as he does. It's his willingness to force the pressure the way he does that allows more opportunities for him to get hit. He could easily sit back and box like how he did against Lemieux but his style dictates that he'll take some punches in order to land his. So it's not that his defense is bad, it's just that his opponents have to open up in order to ease the pressure a bit.


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## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

I think a big part of his defensive liability is because he has still not fully grown into the JCC SR style yet. It's tough to change styles at such an advanced age.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

OneTime said:


> That's bullshit about GGG letting people hit him. No one wants to get hit.
> 
> Maybe mayorga but that's about it.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Muff said:


> Around 43:54 Jones says "Golovkin doesn't have to be this close." It's essentially why GGG gets hit as much as he does. It's his willingness to force the pressure the way he does that allows more opportunities for him to get hit. He could easily sit back and box like how he did against Lemieux but his style dictates that he'll take some punches in order to land his. So it's not that his defense is bad, it's just that his opponents have to open up in order to ease the pressure a bit.


He also catches a lot of blows on his gloves. I hate this idea of "if you're not moving all over the god damn place you ain't got no defense!" bullshit.

The Lemieux fight clearly shows you that he's not gonna jump in there face first if there's real danger.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

You bring up an interesting point. GGG does get tagged and Jacobs has likely the fastest hands he's faced; plus those fast hands carry some pop. 

Personally, I think GGG wins while down on the cards due to Jacobs shaky chin. But I will look at this fight a little differently thanks to this thread.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> You bring up an interesting point. GGG does get tagged and Jacobs has likely the fastest hands he's faced; plus those fast hands carry some pop.
> 
> Personally, I think GGG wins while down on the cards due to Jacobs shaky chin. But I will look at this fight a little differently thanks to this thread.


Let me know if you pick Jacobs so I can add you to the genius list.


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## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> He also catches a lot of blows on his gloves. I hate this idea of "if you're not moving all over the god damn place you ain't got no defense!" bullshit.
> 
> The Lemieux fight clearly shows you that he's not gonna jump in there face first if there's real danger.


I hate that idea too. He's much more economical with his movement. He doesn't have to use all this extra energy because he's learned to control the fight and dictate how the fight will be fought.


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Let me know if you pick Jacobs so I can add you to the genius list.


Nope. I think Jacobs will come out and box well, maybe win a couple of early rounds. But GGG will land a shot and Jacobs will go down.

I like Jacobs, but a chin that got rocked by Mora isn't holding up against GGG.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

I can actually seeing Jacobs winning, Golovkin will try to jab him and break him down like he did Lemieux but Jacobs is fast enough to counter and land his own, Brook fought scared at the beginning and then got wobbled and it woke him up, Jacobs cant affors to do that though if he gets hit I dont think he will recover


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

A.C.S said:


> I can actually seeing Jacobs winning, Golovkin will try to jab him and break him down like he did Lemieux but Jacobs is fast enough to counter and land his own, Brook fought scared at the beginning and then got wobbled and it woke him up, Jacobs cant affors to do that though if he gets hit I dont think he will recover


Well then, are you picking Jacobs sir?


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## JeffJoiner (Jun 5, 2013)

Muff said:


> I hate that idea too. He's much more economical with his movement. He doesn't have to use all this extra energy because he's learned to control the fight and dictate how the fight will be fought.


I love guys who can stand in front and slip/block punches. Nobody will be better than Whitaker in my lifetime, but Ward is also gret.

Not to sidetrack the thread, but a pet peeve of mine is when announcers and fans get excited about blows that land on the gloves. I understand that sometimes ringside doesn't offer the same view, but the sound is so different.


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## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

JeffJoiner said:


> I love guys who can stand in front and slip/block punches. Nobody will be better than Whitaker in my lifetime, but Ward is also gret.
> 
> Not to sidetrack the thread, but a pet peeve of mine is when announcers and fans get excited about blows that land on the gloves. I understand that sometimes ringside doesn't offer the same view, but the sound is so different.


Yeah sometimes it's pretty obvious that didn't land cleanly like they say. Some fights I'll watch again on YouTube with either no commentary or in a different language and it feels like a completely different fight without the commentators messing things up. It's then when you can actually see how many more subtle movements a fighter will do to avoid a shot.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Well then, are you picking Jacobs sir?


No lol but after Bellew I got to stop underestimating peoples opponents


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## LiL Boosie (Feb 9, 2014)

I agree 1000 % 

Its why Ive always said Canelo has a great shot to beat ggg

He is there to be hit...

Not sure about this 1 though, think Jacobs is not very durable and does well but gets starchted here


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

LiL Boosie said:


> I agree 1000 %
> 
> Its why Ive always said Canelo has a great shot to beat ggg
> 
> ...


Agree with what? You picking Jacobs Chicano?


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Golovkin fights one of two ways. Either somewhat cautiously behind the jab (Lemieux, Stevens) or somewhat recklessly (Brook, Murray). To say he doesn't mind taking punches is over the top and to say he has bad defense is also over the top. He is willing to take a punch in order to land one though and his caution seems to be dictated by how much power he believes his opponent has. Brook landed more decent punches on GGG than Lemieux but Golovkin didn't respect his power. Lemieux's left hook that put Stevens to sleep barely landed on Golovkin all night, if at all, because GGG _did_ respect David's power.

The truth is somewhere in between. Golovkin has good defense but not brilliant defense. If Danny lands big, early, then we've got ourselves a fight. But Golovkin is going to attempt to neutralise Danny's power just as he did with Lemieux. In order for Jacobs to land big he's going to have to deal with the cautious Golovkin who can land hard jabs freakishly accurately.

That's not impossible. I don't really know how good Jacobs' jab is so maybe a more knowledgable poster can clue me up on that but the way I see it Danny has to either come out all guns blazing like he did against Quillin or match Golovkin's jab game. Danny strikes me as being more erratic and willing to take chances than Lemieux and maybe that element of unpredictability will work in his favour for a few rounds but Danny has to temper those outbursts with a smart defense.

I see this being very similar to the Lemieux fight but with Danny taking more risks, having more success than David but ultimately, as a result of that, it ending earlier.

Golovkin T/KO 6/7


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## LiL Boosie (Feb 9, 2014)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Agree with what? You picking Jacobs Chicano?


Agree that ggg doesnt have the best Defense

I think Jacobs will light him up some, but ggg ultimately KOs him


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Golovkin fights one of two ways. Either somewhat cautiously behind the jab (Lemieux, Stevens) or somewhat recklessly (Brook, Murray). To say he doesn't mind taking punches is over the top and to say he has bad defense is also over the top. He is willing to take a punch in order to land one though and his caution seems to be dictated by how much power he believes his opponent has. Brook landed more decent punches on GGG than Lemieux but Golovkin didn't respect his power. The left hook that put Stevens to sleep barely landed on Golovkin all night, if at all, because GGG _did_ respect _his_ power.
> 
> The truth is somewhere in between. Golovkin has good defense but not brilliant defense. If Danny lands big, early, then we've got ourselves a fight. But Golovkin is going to attempt to neutralise Danny's power just as he did with Lemieux. In order for Jacobs to land big he's going to have to deal with the cautious Golovkin who can land hard jabs freakishly accurately.
> 
> ...


I see it similarly to you, but one issue I'm seeing is Jacobs reach. He doesn't have a midget reach like Steven's and Lemiuex.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I see it similarly to you, but one issue I'm seeing is Jacobs reach. He doesn't have a midget reach like Steven's and Lemiuex.


Yes, that's a good point. If Danny can use his reach to maximum effect than he can limit Golovkin's ability to netrualise his (Jacobs) power shots. A sort of defense-counter kind of thing (Danny's reach stunting Golovkin's ability to neutralise). I mean, this fight could defy everyone's expectations and turn into a chess match but that's how I see Jacobs using his reach advantage to its full potential, as a defense mechanism rather than beating golovkin to the punch.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Golovkin doesnt let his opponents punch him for sure. What happens is he hasnt respected his opponents power and due to that over time he has neglected his defence and it has become habbit forming.

However, when he did respect the power of his opponent (Lemieux) he didnt allow any opportubities for Lenieux to land so easy. 

I think theres a big difference between letting opponents hit you and not respecting their power. 

If Golovkin believes he can walk through you he will, if he takes your power seriously he temds to make better use of his legs to box from range. 

By the aounds of it he respects Jacobs and sees him as a threat, which he should. I expect him to be more cautious that usual and try and break him down over the distance rather than try to walk him down from the offset. 

Jacobs gameplan is the more intriguing one to think about and that should set the course of the fight.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

For some of you Jacob fans, what are some good Jacobs fights to watch? I've seen Mora X2 and Quillen but they don't tell you much. Jacobs had very little respect for Mora and the Quillen fight was over in a flash.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Golovkin doesnt let his opponents punch him for sure. What happens is he hasnt respected his opponents power and due to that over time he has neglected his defence and it has become habbit forming.
> 
> However, when he did respect the power of his opponent (Lemieux) he didnt allow any opportubities for Lenieux to land so easy.
> 
> ...


Completely agree. Also, while people (myself included) cite the Lemieux fight as an example of Golovkin's pure skill, the Stevens fight is worth another watch because GGG is cautious in that fight too. And Curtis lands more in that fight than Lemieux did.

I think I said earlier that this fight will unfold like the Lemieux fight. I actually think it'll be more like the Curtis fight. I think Danny will definitely land.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Kurushi said:


> Completely agree. Also, while people (myself included) cite the Lemieux fight as an example of Golovkin's pure skill, the Stevens fight is worth another watch because GGG is cautious in that fight too. And Curtis lands more in that fight than Lemieux did.
> 
> I think I said earlier that this fight will unfold like the Lemieux fight. I actually think it'll be more like the Curtis fight. I think Danny will definitely land.


Yeah, I was gonna cite Stevens as well but I aint seen that fight since the night so its a bit rusty in my mind. Its a fight ill probably watch tomorrow in the build up.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

IMO, Jacobs best chance is that he often throws wide, arcing punches, and in heavy flurries.

Golovkin seems very good at negating punches that come straight at him, but his lack of overall movement makes him a little more susceptible from such "side" punches. (I dunno exactly what terminology to use.

Also, Jacobs is great at backing up, then immediately launching an attack from a distance. This, combined with his 3" reach advantage, and combined with the fact that (arguably) Golovkin is more dangerous up close, all give Jacobs a VERY solid chance to win this bout.

A lot will come down to if Jacobs can avoid making any big defensive mistakes. This will be tough, because he also needs to maintain a high output, in order to keep Golovkin off of him.

I'm as big a GGG an as anyone else, but I think this is close to a 50/50 fight.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Yeah, I was gonna cite Stevens as well but I aint seen that fight since the night so its a bit rusty in my mind. Its a fight ill probably watch tomorrow in the build up.


Definitely worth watching again. I watched it today and it's funny how you can forget the details, especially Curtis' success, when the one thing that's referred to in that fight is the meme of Stevens 'funny' look on his face after getting knocked down. Relatively, Stevens really didn't do that bad in that fight.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Definitely worth watching again. I watched it today and it's funny how you can forget the details, especially Curtis' success, when the one thing that's referred to in that fight is the meme of Stevens 'funny' look on his face after getting knocked down. Relatively, Stevens really didn't do that bad in that fight.


No one ever claimed that Golovkin is immortal, or super-human. Great fighters get tagged all the time, how boring would this sport be if otherwise? Ali, Lewis, Whiitaker, Hagler.... Fighters take punishment.

The great ones, however, survive the onslaught, persevere, and end up victorious. 
Golovkin is as perfect an example of this as one can find. He clearly has a great chin, and when you hit him in the face, he literally seems to enjoy it and it just makes him turn up the heat.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> No one ever claimed that Golovkin is immortal, or super-human. Great fighters get tagged all the time, how boring would this sport be if otherwise? Ali, Lewis, Whiitaker, Hagler.... Fighters take punishment.
> 
> The great ones, however, survive the onslaught, persevere, and end up victorious.
> Golovkin is as perfect an example of this as one can find. He clearly has a great chin, and when you hit him in the face, he literally seems to enjoy it and it just makes him turn up the heat.


Very umbrella.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Very umbrella.


Waazat even mean?


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Waazat mean?


It was a friendly attempt at criticising your post for only being applicable to boxing in a general sense rather than being applicable, in any meaningful sense, to the conversation at hand.


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## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

The Lemieux fight shows what he's capable of when he's in there with power he respects.


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## HumansSuck (Nov 4, 2015)

After watching the Pirog fight I don't see it. Jacobs hasn't fought someone as stone cold, as powerful and as crafty since. 

As often as GGG will touch Jacobs I just don't see it. GGG will touch Jacobs and often. Just like Pirog did. Someone Jacobs can intimidate, push back and into his power is ideal. That guy isn't GGG. 

This is really why GGG is so hard to beat. He doesn't ever second guess himself. He doesn't blink, pause, whatever you want to call it. Those openings you think you're getting with him is just him baiting you. Because he doesn't second guess himself he wastes little time that his opponent could be using to think / recuperate. 

A big plus would be to put some fear into GGG. If you could make him second guess himself then I think he's beatable. I don't see that happening though because he's far sharper than people think defensively. He won't give Jacobs the shot he needs to put the fear in him.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

HumansSuck said:


> After watching the Pirog fight I don't see it. Jacobs hasn't fought someone as stone cold, as powerful and as crafty since.
> 
> As often as GGG will touch Jacobs I just don't see it. GGG will touch Jacobs and often. Just like Pirog did. Someone Jacobs can intimidate, push back and into his power is ideal. That guy isn't GGG.
> 
> ...


Well have to wait until Derevyanchenko comes along. Guy is looking like a fucking beast and is insanely strong on the inside.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> It was a friendly attempt at criticising your post for only being applicable to boxing in a general sense rather than being applicable, in any meaningful sense, to the conversation at hand.


OK then.

- But I disagree. it's not boxing in a general sense. It's a statement about part of what makes elite boxers elite.


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## Brickfists (Oct 17, 2012)

He didn't want to get hit by Lemieux and he didn't. That says it all for me.


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## randomwalk (Jul 13, 2013)

Sergio Mora knocked down Jacobs! What about Jacobs defense? GGG T/KO 4.


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## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

I rewatched GGG vs. Lemieux today and that took all the temptation to pick Jacobs and put it out the window. When he wants to box carefully to avoid his opponent's power, he can and will. Lemieux barely landed on him. I think Jacobs will fair similarly.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

I think it's a little of both. Golovkin likes to put himself in positions where he's in range to get hit and doesn't mind if he can keep pressuring his opponent, but he also lacks head movement. I'll give him points for efficiency and a solid guard and a tucked chin, but some slipping at least would greatly augment an already super effective style. Virtually any time he gets caught getting hit as he backsteps is because he doesn't change levels or get his head off center. Curtis Stevens and Kell Brook both landed big left-right-left-right combinations knowing exactly where his head was going to be at all times. The Lemieux fight didn't show any real variation of this either, he just controlled the fight with his feet and jab in a way we hadn't seen before. 

Roman Gonzales to me shows the superior execution of defense while coming forward. He's just as efficient if not more so, able to cut the ring off and pick off shots with his gloves without having to reset stepping out, and his head movement is amazing. It's effortless and yet precise.

Now I don't think Jacobs has developed enough of a Ring IQ to be able to take advantage of these vulnerabilities without getting into danger himself, but he can have his moments and make a good fight. Canelo I think might be a different story.


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I think it's a little of both. Golovkin likes to put himself in positions where he's in range to get hit and doesn't mind if he can keep pressuring his opponent, but he also lacks head movement. I'll give him points for efficiency and a solid guard and a tucked chin, but some slipping at least would greatly augment an already super effective style. Virtually any time he gets caught getting hit as he backsteps is because he doesn't change levels or get his head off center. Curtis Stevens and Kell Brook both landed big left-right-left-right combinations knowing exactly where his head was going to be at all times. The Lemieux fight didn't show any real variation of this either, he just controlled the fight with his feet and jab in a way we hadn't seen before.
> 
> Roman Gonzales to me shows the superior execution of defense while coming forward. He's just as efficient if not more so, able to cut the ring off and pick off shots with his gloves without having to reset stepping out, and his head movement is amazing. It's effortless and yet precise.
> 
> Now I don't think Jacobs has developed enough of a Ring IQ to be able to take advantage of these vulnerabilities without getting into danger himself, but he can have his moments and make a good fight. Canelo I think might be a different story.


Would you go as far as to back Canelo against Golovkin? He has been very much overlooked here


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Eoghan said:


> Would you go as far as to back Canelo against Golovkin? He has been very much overlooked here


I have to think about it more but I lean towards him. I don't think he has good enough footwork to avoid the ropes for 12 rounds, but he doesn't necessarily have to. Canelo has great timing in exchanges and fast combinations. If Golovkin doesn't land a fight-changing bomb (and given Canelo's defense it's no guarantee), that's likely to bank him rounds. We've seen Canelo struggle a bit under pressure, but endure without any real scares. We've never seen Golovkin have to take the kind of counters Canelo would be landing and make an adjustment.


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## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I have to think about it more but I lean towards him. I don't think he has good enough footwork to avoid the ropes for 12 rounds, but he doesn't necessarily have to. Canelo has great timing in exchanges and fast combinations. If Golovkin doesn't land a fight-changing bomb (and given Canelo's defense it's no guarantee), that's likely to bank him rounds. We've seen Canelo struggle a bit under pressure, but endure without any real scares. We've never seen Golovkin have to take the kind of counters Canelo would be landing and make an adjustment.


Unless Canelo's stamina improves quite a bit, it's going to be hard to keep that up against someone like Golovkin, who has no trouble throwing 100+ punches a round, so it's going to be harder to him to bank rounds just because he's landing a few good shots. Canelo is a good counter puncher but Jesus, people make it him out to be some sort of master boxer. Golovkin can box just as good as the rest of them if he wants. We've seen how Canelo looked against more pure boxers and he looked pretty average. They say he gets better every fight, but his opponent selection as of late has been helping that image a bit. If GGG looks anything like his old self tomorrow night or even a bit more so, I'd have a hard time seeing how people could lean towards Canelo if they fight.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Muff said:


> Unless Canelo's stamina improves quite a bit, it's going to be hard to keep that up against someone like Golovkin, who has no trouble throwing 100+ punches a round, so it's going to be harder to him to bank rounds just because he's landing a few good shots. Canelo is a good counter puncher but Jesus, people make it him out to be some sort of master boxer. Golovkin can box just as good as the rest of them if he wants. We've seen how Canelo looked against more pure boxers and he looked pretty average. They say he gets better every fight, but his opponent selection as of late has been helping that image a bit. If GGG looks anything like his old self tomorrow night or even a bit more so, I'd have a hard time seeing how people could lean towards Canelo if they fight.


To add to this Canelo is mediocre when forced to move forward. I don't think Golovkin is gonna jump in there to play to his strengths. I really like Canelo but I can't see him pulling it off.


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## adamcanavan (Jun 5, 2012)

Golovkin will box more cautiously and win with ease in under 4 rounds imo


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Muff said:


> Unless Canelo's stamina improves quite a bit, it's going to be hard to keep that up against someone like Golovkin, who has no trouble throwing 100+ punches a round, so it's going to be harder to him to bank rounds just because he's landing a few good shots. Canelo is a good counter puncher but Jesus, people make it him out to be some sort of master boxer. Golovkin can box just as good as the rest of them if he wants. We've seen how Canelo looked against more pure boxers and he looked pretty average. They say he gets better every fight, but his opponent selection as of late has been helping that image a bit. If GGG looks anything like his old self tomorrow night or even a bit more so, I'd have a hard time seeing how people could lean towards Canelo if they fight.


That's a pretty good point, output is a big factor. I don't know if Golovkin is going to throw 100 a round against Canelo but it's probably safe to assume volume is on his side. The fights I'd pick to measure output are Angulo, in which Canelo punched in volume when pressed, and Murray, in which Golovkin had to pace himself over the course of 11 rounds. In 10 rounds Canelo threw 513, in 11 rounds Golovkin threw 816. There's a discrepancy there, the Chavez fight will tell us if it remains with Canelo having to cut less weight.

I think it's useless to compare Golovkin to Lara or Trout or Cotto or any other mover who gave Canelo trouble. He's just not going to dance around Canelo and make him chase him. But, if Golovkin chooses a Lemieux like game-plan, it could be interesting. I still think Canelo would beat him there though, he's quicker and smarter than anyone Golovkin has ever fought. Golovkin is not the best boxer-type Canelo has ever fought.

My prediction is based on the fact Golovkin is there to be hit more often than Canelo is, and isn't used to having to think as much in top-level fights as Canelo is. Jacobs doesn't fight much like Canelo so I'm not sure how much we'll learn from that fight but I'm sure we can get something out of it.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> To add to this Canelo is mediocre when forced to move forward. I don't think Golovkin is gonna jump in there to play to his strengths. I really like Canelo but I can't see him pulling it off.


Canelo is mediocre when forced to cut the ring off, Golovkin is not going to force him to do that.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> That's a pretty good point, output is a big factor. I don't know if Golovkin is going to throw 100 a round against Canelo but it's probably safe to assume volume is on his side. The fights I'd pick to measure output are Angulo, in which Canelo punched in volume when pressed, and Murray, in which Golovkin had to pace himself over the course of 11 rounds. In 10 rounds Canelo threw 513, in 11 rounds Golovkin threw 816. There's a discrepancy there, the Chavez fight will tell us if it remains with Canelo having to cut less weight.
> 
> I think it's useless to compare Golovkin to Lara or Trout or Cotto or any other mover who gave Canelo trouble. He's just not going to dance around Canelo and make him chase him. But, if Golovkin chooses a Lemieux like game-plan, it could be interesting. I still think Canelo would beat him there though, he's quicker and smarter than anyone Golovkin has ever fought. Golovkin is not the best boxer-type Canelo has ever fought.
> 
> My prediction is based on the fact Golovkin is there to be hit more often than Canelo is, and isn't used to having to think as much in top-level fights as Canelo is. Jacobs doesn't fight much like Canelo so I'm not sure how much we'll learn from that fight but I'm sure we can get something out of it.


If Canelo believed this, the fight would have happened. His reticence tells you everything. GGG would jab and half step his head off, and break him down with combinations when they avail themselves. Yes Canelo has a chance to tag him with straight rights, but like Danny Garcia and Adrien Broner his footwork isn't dynamic enough to cope with an elite schooled amateur in GGG who also has enough power to put him off marching forward.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

JamieC said:


> If Canelo believed this, the fight would have happened. His reticence tells you everything. GGG would jab and half step his head off, and break him down with combinations when they avail themselves. Yes Canelo has a chance to tag him with straight rights, but like Danny Garcia and Adrien Broner his footwork isn't dynamic enough to cope with an elite schooled amateur in GGG who also has enough power to put him off marching forward.


From what I've seen in boxing over the years, all that ducking business goes out the window when the two step in the ring. They do what they've been doing all their lives, rely on the same instincts, and fight. So I don't factor fear into it. It's funny you mention Danny Garcia because I think he's very comparable to Canelo, and GGG is comparable to Matthysse in the same regard. He's not the kind of fighter who's going to move around and exploit Canelo's cement feet, he's going to set up power punches behind a jab trying to set things up. It's there I think Canelo's timing and speed makes the difference.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

I have to watch the Lemieux fight tomorrow to contrast Golovkin's approach to defense, but man, this first round from Golovkin against Brook shows a lot of problems. He gets into position very nicely, probing the jab and leaning to the side with his tin tucked, hands up, creeping forward, but then he just wings punches. Any time Brook throws Golovkin's response is just shell up and wait for him to finish.

Going into round two, every time he jabs Brook counters with a jab. Jacobs better have watched this tape 10 times. Holy shit he got hit a lot more than I remembered too. He keeps just trying to punch with Brook but Brook sees everything coming. Golovkin isn't feinting at all and Brook anticipates any time he steps forward to throw, and gets the better of the exchanges. Golovkin is clearly not letting him just hit him here, he's trying to throw back and getting caught.










Reminds me of this read from a while ago:

http://www.badlefthook.com/2014/10/...echnique-stevens-rosado-geale-gif-analysis-ko

Again though I'll have to compare this to the Lemieux fight.

Side note, I think Golovkin's jab is going to be key against Jacobs tomorrow. It's really sharp and powerful when he decides to really shoot it, and it could easily disrupt an outside-oriented plan developed by Jacobs.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> From what I've seen in boxing over the years, all that ducking business goes out the window when the two step in the ring. They do what they've been doing all their lives, rely on the same instincts, and fight. So I don't factor fear into it. It's funny you mention Danny Garcia because I think he's very comparable to Canelo, and GGG is comparable to Matthysse in the same regard. He's not the kind of fighter who's going to move around and exploit Canelo's cement feet, he's going to set up power punches behind a jab trying to set things up. It's there I think Canelo's timing and speed makes the difference.


But he's shared a ring with him and doesn't want the fight. That tells you how the sparring went and how much confidence he has. Also, he won't march forward against Canelo with disregard, he was an elite amateur, he will just box him up and the weight of punches going one way compared to what's coming back once he's warmed up will see him winning. What's Canelo's response to GGG's well timed jab and half step back? How will he come forward without walking on to a right hand which GGG sets up really well off the back foot? When he backs up onto the ropes, how will he deal with GGG mixing it head to body with fight ending shots?

He's definitely got a chance as I love his style of combination punching on the counter when he sets his feet, but people are overlooking GGG's amateur schooling, all of the questions on what he can do can be answered there, he's a more versatile fighter than given credit for. That said, I am concerned with Jacobs fast hands and reach advantage and GGG isn't young so could slow down any fight.


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## BrotherMouzone (Oct 28, 2014)

Here is my prefight analysis of Golovkin vs. Jacobs (headed up to NYC later today for the fight): http://masterclassboxing.blogspot.com/2017/03/golovkin-vs-jacobs-quick-prefight.html


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

JamieC said:


> But he's shared a ring with him and doesn't want the fight. That tells you how the sparring went and how much confidence he has. Also, he won't march forward against Canelo with disregard, he was an elite amateur, he will just box him up and the weight of punches going one way compared to what's coming back once he's warmed up will see him winning. What's Canelo's response to GGG's well timed jab and half step back? How will he come forward without walking on to a right hand which GGG sets up really well off the back foot? When he backs up onto the ropes, how will he deal with GGG mixing it head to body with fight ending shots?
> 
> He's definitely got a chance as I love his style of combination punching on the counter when he sets his feet, but people are overlooking GGG's amateur schooling, all of the questions on what he can do can be answered there, he's a more versatile fighter than given credit for. That said, I am concerned with Jacobs fast hands and reach advantage and GGG isn't young so could slow down any fight.


It really doesn't tell me anything of that sort, boxing is a funny business with opportunistic match-making and I don't think it will matter at all when they fight. Sorry, I just can't extrapolate that much psychology out of circumstantial evidence.

Golovkin being an elite amateur doesn't mean he can magically "box him up". He's not going to outjab him from the outside and dance around him, its just not his style, and Canelo has shown more boxing ability against better competition. He's the better counter-puncher, has the better head movement, and uses feints better. Lemieux he could box against because he was terribly simplistic and much shorter in his crouch.

Whats Canelo's response to GGG's well-timed jab? Probably a counter. (No doubt he'll eat a good few)
















Since when does GGG set up his right hands off the back foot? He loops them coming forward, he doesn't really walk fighters into shots.
Against the ropes Canelo does what he does to every aggressive fighter he's faced, counter with sharp uppercuts and body shots.

I only slightly favor Canelo but I don't think Golovkin can win it just by boxing him, the way you describe his path to victory is a way I've never seen him fight. He has a good jab but his movement and defense isn't good enough to fight like a pure boxer.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> It really doesn't tell me anything of that sort, boxing is a funny business with opportunistic match-making and I don't think it will matter at all when they fight. Sorry, I just can't extrapolate that much psychology out of circumstantial evidence.
> 
> Golovkin being an elite amateur doesn't mean he can magically "box him up". He's not going to outjab him from the outside and dance around him, its just not his style, and Canelo has shown more boxing ability against better competition. He's the better counter-puncher, has the better head movement, and uses feints better. Lemieux he could box against because he was terribly simplistic and much shorter in his crouch.
> 
> ...


You've never seen GGG jab and maintain distance? As an amateur he counters people as they step in all the time. Canelo doesn't have the dynamism to deal with GGG's boxing and he knows it. Canelo can stand on the ropes and try and counter with uppercuts against Mayweather, or Canelo, but when he's take 3 or 4 punch combos from GGG? When GGG lands a stiff jab and half steps back Canelo will be found wanting, in the clip Cotto doesn't really commit to the jab so Canelo can afford to hold and counter, he won't be doing that against GGG I doubt.


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

I also lean towards an upset... Just saw the Kell Brook fight and GGG would be seeing triple stars if he fought Jacobs that way. 

GGG was getting baited, countered, and overall setup all the way through the 3rd.


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## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

If anyone has a chance against GGG it's Danny Jacobs. 

I think GGG stops him late, it could even go late in the 10th or 11th but I would rather see Jacobs stopped than taking needless punishment.


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## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> I also lean towards an upset... Just saw the Kell Brook fight and GGG would be seeing triple stars if he fought Jacobs that way.
> 
> GGG was getting baited, countered, and overall setup all the way through the 3rd.


I think people are looking into the Kell Brook fight way too much and if Jacobs does that, he's in trouble.

Yes, GGG got hit but he was never hurt and he enjoyed the action so he can engage in what he does best and then he broke Kell's eye.


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

On a side note I can't believe this is ppv smfh... Boxing PPVs suck ass, as good as Chocolatito is, not gonna pay to see him fight someone unheard of. Same with GGG, only diehard fans know who Jacobs is... Just not ppv worthy here in the states. No trash talk, drama, Nada... What casuals are gonna buy this shit?

Casual MMA fans buy UFC ppvs left and right because the fighters and matchmakers deliver.... They sell the fight, they got well done promos, UFC embedded on the daily during fight week, etc.

Another bad year for Boxing ppv, but Connor McGregor might crossover and do well for both mma and boxing.


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## nvs (May 16, 2013)

If Golovking from the Lemieux match shows up and establishes the jab Jacobs is going to do the Macklin face when he feels the power of GGG's jab.
Pepper Jacobs with the jab and let him run around the ring to waste energy until he slows down and after that he is done.
He is going to get the TKO'd, Jacobs that is.



Floyd_g.o.a.t said:


> I think people are looking into the Kell Brook fight way too much and if Jacobs does that, he's in trouble.
> 
> Yes, GGG got hit but he was never hurt and he enjoyed the action so he can engage in what he does best and then he broke Kell's eye.


Agreed. Im not a even an amateur level boxer but i have been in the ring enough to know how i behave when i respect opponents power and presence and how i behave when i dont.

If the opponent has no power to speak of that i respect i just walk thru the punches and apply hell of a pressure and thats what i think GGG did to Brook.


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Floyd_g.o.a.t said:


> I think people are looking into the Kell Brook fight way too much and if Jacobs does that, he's in trouble.
> 
> Yes, GGG got hit but he was never hurt and he enjoyed the action so he can engage in what he does best and then he broke Kell's eye.


He broke Brook' eye in the first two minutes.

GGG just didn't fight smart and is not that sophisticated of a fighter. He takes a lot of shots on the chin just head on. He doesn't roll with the punches.

Also, GGG' left cheek was already bruised after the 1st round! Jacobs boxes and is more sophisticated IMO. I can see him boxing his way to victory.

Another thing is GGG will need to clinch on the inside he should have tied Brook up on the inside because often Broik' slipped and slided out of the pocket, punching out of range.


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## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> He broke Brook' eye in the first two minutes.
> 
> GGG just didn't fight smart and is not that sophisticated of a fighter. He takes a lot of shots on the chin just head on. He doesn't roll with the punches.
> 
> ...


He does roll with the punches mate, check out how he fought Lemeiux, it was beautiful boxing.

I agree that Jacobs has a style that could trouble GGG if he is able to outbox him and keep the action on the outside but for me Golovkin is the better boxer, forget the power, he has the better footwork and punch selection whilst Jacobs has the speed advantage.

It's pretty simple with the Brook/GGG fight, Brook went on the offensive early and fought at a high pace which is why he didn't only get stopped early, he couldn't even throw a punch in the 5th round having absorbed GGG's thundering power shots. Jacobs cannot enforce that game plan and GGG won't be leaving his chin out there either. The Brook fight is simply an outlier.


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## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

Is it me or does Jacobs look slightly light on the legs? Not sure how he looked in previous weigh ins but expected them to be more muscular.


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

nvs said:


> If Golovking from the Lemieux match shows up and establishes the jab Jacobs is going to do the Macklin face when he feels the power of GGG's jab.
> Pepper Jacobs with the jab and let him run around the ring to waste energy until he slows down and after that he is done.
> He is going to get the TKO'd, Jacobs that is.
> 
> ...


He did adopt that mindset, but the execution was poor. Him and his trainer knew this!

The way he fought was unsophisticated and gives Jacobs something to build off of. Might've been okay for you guys, but that's not how any boxer should fight. The punches landed and rounds take their toll eventually...

I see Jacobs executing a solid plan and at the very least test GGG. He's gonna look good this Danny Jacobs. IMO, he's super legit.


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

nvs said:


> If Golovking from the Lemieux match shows up and establishes the jab Jacobs is going to do the Macklin face when he feels the power of GGG's jab.
> Pepper Jacobs with the jab and let him run around the ring to waste energy until he slows down and after that he is done.
> He is going to get the TKO'd, Jacobs that is.
> 
> ...


He did adopt that mindset, but the execution was poor. Him and his trainer knew this!

The way he fought was unsophisticated and gives Jacobs something to build off of. Might've been okay for you guys, but that's not how any boxer should fight. The punches landed and rounds take their toll eventually...

I see Jacobs executing a solid plan and at the very least test GGG. He's gonna look good this Danny Jacobs. IMO, he's super legit.


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## BobDigi5060 (Jul 15, 2012)

Floyd_g.o.a.t said:


> He does roll with the punches mate, check out how he fought Lemeiux, it was beautiful boxing.
> 
> I agree that Jacobs has a style that could trouble GGG if he is able to outbox him and keep the action on the outside but for me Golovkin is the better boxer, forget the power, he has the better footwork and punch selection whilst Jacobs has the speed advantage.
> 
> It's pretty simple with the Brook/GGG fight, Brook went on the offensive early and fought at a high pace which is why he didn't only get stopped early, he couldn't even throw a punch in the 5th round having absorbed GGG's thundering power shots. Jacobs cannot enforce that game plan and GGG won't be leaving his chin out there either. The Brook fight is simply an outlier.


I'm going to bed and will check out the Leaxmemamdk fight in about 8 hours or less. GGG is good at what he does, but Jacobs is the boxer here let's not forget.

I see it being competitive, probably hope more than anything as I haven't seen GGG and the French Canadian's fight yet.


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## Thomas Crewz (Jul 23, 2013)

I know we've seen both use different styles before, but i think we will see a pretty typical boxer vs pressure fighter matchup tonight with Jacobs looking to control the range with his jab, counter GGG on his way in and turn into space and GGG trying to cut the ring and trap Jacobs on the ropes. 

Jacobs has the reach and speed and could maybe get to GG early on, but as the fight goes on i feel that Golovkins pressure is going to start showing and Jacobs is going to start panicking a bit. In the past he has shown a bad tendency to go the ropes vs Pirog, time will tell if he has learnt from that loss. I think overall he is a bit stiff defensively and that could cost him badly. 

I said in the build up to the Brook vs GG fight that Golovkins opponents can have success following him when he backs up and opening up with combos. GG doesn't really counter when hes on the back foot and tends to shell up a bit. Brook did do this to good effect but didnt have the power to make it count, Jacobs could. I dont think like some do that you should base you whole tactics for the fight and going to GG, but more use it as a surprise ambush when Golovkin backs up. 

Jacobs needs to stay away from the ropes at all costs and not allow GG to set his feet. Jab, feint, clinch, disrupt his rhythm in any way possible. Can he do this for 12 rnds? I dont think so based what ive seen from him in the past. I dont think he is on GG's level personally and i dont think he durable enough to last the 12. 

Far more interesting than a lot of GG's fights though, and a worthy chief support to Chocolatito vs Srisaket


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> GGG just didn't fight smart and is not that sophisticated of a fighter. He takes a lot of shots on the chin just head on. He doesn't roll with the punches. /QUOTE] .


He absolutely rolls with the punches. He uses very subtle head slips, and usually just negates punches' power, instead of completely avoiding them. This allows him to stay in the pocket, focused on his offense. It's a choice he makes. And like @Floyd mentioned, he fights differently against harder punchers.

Of course, he doesn't have the head movement of Canelo, or Stevenson, but it's still very good. Where he lacks is as I've mentioned before - he's not as adept at moving to the side. And again, that's why I think Jacobs has a better chance than many fans are giving him, due partly to those heavily angled punches he throws. (And partly to his ability to attack while moving away.)

Of course, my money's still on Golovkin


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## rossco (Jun 9, 2013)

BobDigi5060 said:


> He did adopt that mindset, but the execution was poor. Him and his trainer knew this!
> 
> The way he fought was unsophisticated and gives Jacobs something to build off of. Might've been okay for you guys, but that's not how any boxer should fight. The punches landed and rounds take their toll eventually...
> 
> I see Jacobs executing a solid plan and at the very least test GGG. He's gonna look good this Danny Jacobs. IMO, he's super legit.


What's all this sophisticated pish? Golovkin is a technician. He has great footwork, balance, punch selection and technique. Great ring general as well. He seems robotic and isn't the fastest puncher so if he does have a weakness it's an athletic thing rather as a technical or skill issue. His defence is actually pretty tight but he can get caught with sneaky fast shots as was evident against Brook. Just because he doesn't move like RJJ or roll punches like James Toney doesn't mean he's not sophisticated.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

JamieC said:


> You've never seen GGG jab and maintain distance? As an amateur he counters people as they step in all the time. Canelo doesn't have the dynamism to deal with GGG's boxing and he knows it. Canelo can stand on the ropes and try and counter with uppercuts against Mayweather, or Canelo, but when he's take 3 or 4 punch combos from GGG? When GGG lands a stiff jab and half steps back Canelo will be found wanting, in the clip Cotto doesn't really commit to the jab so Canelo can afford to hold and counter, he won't be doing that against GGG I doubt.


I've never seen him emulate a pure boxer to win a professional fight. I haven't seen Golovkin walk any of his top middleweight opponents into right hands off the back-foot. As mentioned in the article I posted, his style has changed quite a bit since even his earlier pro days. There's no reliable reason to assume he's going to pull some kind of Lara boxing on Canelo. Cotto's jab is certainly better than Golovkins, he landed it throughout the fight against Canelo, it's a good punch to use against him, but Canelo will ultimately time it with a hard power punch. This "jab and half-step back" gameplan is just not going to happen. Golovkin is a pressure fighter, Canelo will be harder to hit than anyone Golovkin has fought, if anyone is doing the "outboxing", it will be Canelo. Golovkin needs to press and hurt Canelo early, or he'll suffer the same fate Matthysse did against Garcia, getting picked apart in exchanges, out-feinted, out-timed, and outboxed.


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## sosolid4u09 (Jan 28, 2013)

He doesn't get hit deliberately. But once he's felt his opponents power and feels he can walk through it, he doesnt mind taking a few to give a few.

He can be disciplined enough to avoid getting hit but obviously his savage offence suffers


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I've never seen him emulate a pure boxer to win a professional fight. I haven't seen Golovkin walk any of his top middleweight opponents into right hands off the back-foot. As mentioned in the article I posted, his style has changed quite a bit since even his earlier pro days. There's no reliable reason to assume he's going to pull some kind of Lara boxing on Canelo. Cotto's jab is certainly better than Golovkins, he landed it throughout the fight against Canelo, it's a good punch to use against him, but Canelo will ultimately time it with a hard power punch. This "jab and half-step back" gameplan is just not going to happen. Golovkin is a pressure fighter, Canelo will be harder to hit than anyone Golovkin has fought, if anyone is doing the "outboxing", it will be Canelo. Golovkin needs to press and hurt Canelo early, or he'll suffer the same fate Matthysse did against Garcia, getting picked apart in exchanges, out-feinted, out-timed, and outboxed.


It's easy to forget Matthysse was 4-2 at the time of the eye injury not caused by a punch though, if we're using that comparison. GGG jab and half stepped back against Lemieux and won in first gear, his amateur days can't be overlooked, it's why Rigo/Loma/Kovalev/Beterbiev/Usyk etc are making the pros look easy. GGG has that schooling in him and he won't have forgotten the fundamentals schooled in literally hundreds of bouts against all styles that he won.


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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

Floyd_g.o.a.t said:


> Is it me or does Jacobs look slightly light on the legs? Not sure how he looked in previous weigh ins but expected them to be more muscular.


Guy always had them skinny legs. Thats why he is so chinny. Golovin knocks him out inside three.


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Floyd_g.o.a.t said:


> Is it me or does Jacobs look slightly light on the legs? Not sure how he looked in previous weigh ins but expected them to be more muscular.


Damn, I never really noticed.










Brook has better legs (no ****). :lol:


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I think what people forget when guys fight guys coming up the weight is that there can be a disparity in speed which equates to not just hands but feet, movement, body positioning etc

Brook is faster than Golovkin and was able to land with some good shots, they did nothing though ao it doesnt matter a whole lot. Similarly Khan was able to mug of Canelo at times and could be argued he won the first 4/5 rounds but ultimately Canelos size, timing and overall strength, punch power was able to break Khan down enough he could land the KO blow. 

Jacobs is a different style of fighter to Brook, he does have fast hands though and punches harder so I can see why people are making the comparison but he is also taller and rangier, he'll not be able to get i to the same positions as Brook to throw the same types of shots the way Kell did. 

Doesnt mean Jacobs cant land those shots though but its not a straight up comparible fighter.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I've never seen him emulate a pure boxer to win a professional fight. I haven't seen Golovkin walk any of his top middleweight opponents into right hands off the back-foot. As mentioned in the article I posted, his style has changed quite a bit since even his earlier pro days. There's no reliable reason to assume he's going to pull some kind of Lara boxing on Canelo. Cotto's jab is certainly better than Golovkins, he landed it throughout the fight against Canelo, it's a good punch to use against him, but Canelo will ultimately time it with a hard power punch. This "jab and half-step back" gameplan is just not going to happen. Golovkin is a pressure fighter, Canelo will be harder to hit than anyone Golovkin has fought, if anyone is doing the "outboxing", it will be Canelo. Golovkin needs to press and hurt Canelo early, or he'll suffer the same fate Matthysse did against Garcia, getting picked apart in exchanges, out-feinted, out-timed, and outboxed.


Canelo has a terrible output though, he'll be inviting Golovkin if he throws as little as he usually does and Golivkin isnt going to weigh 15-25lb less like most of Canelos opponents to date.

Canelo will be able to counter him but he wont be able to outstrength Golovkin like hes been abke to the likes of Khan/Lara/Trout at times.

Should make for a better fight though as Alvarez will have to fight every minute of every round with no breathers and Golovkin will have to be more defensively sound or eat counters.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

JamieC said:


> It's easy to forget Matthysse was 4-2 at the time of the eye injury not caused by a punch though, if we're using that comparison. GGG jab and half stepped back against Lemieux and won in first gear, his amateur days can't be overlooked, it's why Rigo/Loma/Kovalev/Beterbiev/Usyk etc are making the pros look easy. GGG has that schooling in him and he won't have forgotten the fundamentals schooled in literally hundreds of bouts against all styles that he won.


I re-watched the fight recently and Garcia was timing Matthysse early on in close rounds. The pattern simply continued, though I do acknowledge the eye injury. Lemieux was a stocky shorter puncher with 0 head movement, that's the only kind of opponent Golovkin is going to outbox at a distance. He's not going to comfortably outbox Canelo that way. He already abandons certain fundamentals in his fights, the fact he's winning them doesn't erase that. The way you're describing he'll beat Canelo just doesn't make any sense. He was losing the battle of the jabs against Kell Brook.

This is what Golovkin looks like advancing on someone who can fight on the outside with speed. His head almost never goes off-center.


































I'm not saying he has a bad jab or a bad fundamentals. But his boxing isn't bad _for a pressure fighter._ It's not something he can rely on against most guys. He's better than Lemieux there. But let's not compare him to Rigondeaux. I expect his jab to disrupt Jacobs' rhythm tonight, but that doesn't mean I think he can beat Canelo by relying on it on the outside. And I think most people favoring Golovkin would agree that's not a realistic path to victory.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Should make for a better fight though as Alvarez will have to fight every minute of every round with no breathers and Golovkin will have to be more defensively sound or eat counters.


I guess I find it more likely that Canelo trains his ass off and fights his best fight to date, even surviving any breathers he does have to take, than I do Golovkin suddenly un-stiffening his head movement. I want Golovkin to win, believe me, but I just can't be comfortable with how often his head stays in the middle on the center line.


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## REDC (Dec 12, 2015)

Mexi-Box said:


> Damn, I never really noticed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn Brook had some legs on him.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I re-watched the fight recently and Garcia was timing Matthysse early on in close rounds. The pattern simply continued, though I do acknowledge the eye injury. Lemieux was a stocky shorter puncher with 0 head movement, that's the only kind of opponent Golovkin is going to outbox at a distance. He's not going to comfortably outbox Canelo that way. He already abandons certain fundamentals in his fights, the fact he's winning them doesn't erase that. The way you're describing he'll beat Canelo just doesn't make any sense. He was losing the battle of the jabs against Kell Brook.
> 
> This is what Golovkin looks like advancing on someone who can fight on the outside with speed. His head almost never goes off-center.
> 
> ...


Again you're ignoring his extensive amateur career which has much more bearing than his US exposure fights. Against Kell Brook if he was losing the battle of the jabs why was he manoeuvring Brook where he wanted? Size played a part but ultimately it was his boxing fundamentals. Again, if Canelo believed any of this the fight would have happened, he's been in there with him and doesn't want it, you have to wonder why surely?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Again you're ignoring his extensive amateur career which has much more bearing than his US exposure fights. Against Kell Brook if he was losing the battle of the jabs why was he manoeuvring Brook where he wanted? Size played a part but ultimately it was his boxing fundamentals. Again, if Canelo believed any of this the fight would have happened, he's been in there with him and doesn't want it, you have to wonder why surely?


I disagree, I don't think Golovkin's form from a decade ago in a completely different competitive format has more bearing than the habits that dominate the last few years of his pro game.

Cutting the ring off and winning the battle of the jabs are two different things.

I don't wonder why, it's all business and it won't matter.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I disagree, I don't think Golovkin's form from a decade ago in a completely different competitive format has more bearing than the habits that dominate the last few years of his pro game.
> 
> Cutting the ring off and winning the battle of the jabs are two different things.
> 
> I don't wonder why, it's all business and it won't matter.


It's the reason why Loma/Rigo/Beterbiev/Usyk are making this game look easy, it's no coincidence.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

JamieC said:


> It's the reason why Loma/Rigo/Beterbiev/Usyk are making this game look easy, it's no coincidence.


Okay, but Golovkin's habits indicate a departure from his amateur style.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Okay, but Golovkin's habits indicate a departure from his amateur style.


I guess the question is whether it has become habitual or whether he's consciously departing from them, I think it's the latter and come a Canelo like fight he will revert to what he's done most of his life.

Watch Jacobs catch him with a massive right hook counter and end this discussion tonight :lol:


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

@Bogotazo you've seen the Gonzalez-Estrada fight right?

I think a bout between GGG and Canelo would be similiar to that, with Gennady in the role of Roman and Saul in the role of Juan Francisco. And like his Nicaraguan flyweight counterpart, i see GGG taking it.

Key diffrences of course being that Estrada has a higher output and superior stamina than Canelo, while Gonzalez is much better defensively coming forward than Golovkin.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Jacobs has skipped the IBF weigh in, he's going to be huge in there


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> It really doesn't tell me anything of that sort, boxing is a funny business with opportunistic match-making and I don't think it will matter at all when they fight. Sorry, I just can't extrapolate that much psychology out of circumstantial evidence.
> 
> Golovkin being an elite amateur doesn't mean he can magically "box him up". He's not going to outjab him from the outside and dance around him, its just not his style, and Canelo has shown more boxing ability against better competition. He's the better counter-puncher, has the better head movement, and uses feints better. Lemieux he could box against because he was terribly simplistic and much shorter in his crouch.
> 
> ...


I have to watch that fight again, but did Canelo deal with Cotto's jab better than Mayweather?


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## TeddyL (Oct 5, 2013)

Don't read too much into him skipping the IBF weigh in.

It does not mean that "he's going to be huge"


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

TeddyL said:


> Don't read too much into him skipping the IBF weigh in.
> 
> It does not mean that "he's going to be huge"


I've read that Jacobs was planning to move up in weight anyways and was struggling hard to make 160. He only came back to 160 for Canelo or GGG. So I doubt he wanted the titles that bad


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Jacobs has skipped the IBF weigh in, he's going to be huge in there


Did they ever give the fight night weights of Lemieux/Stevens? HBONow doesn't show that part. I wouldn't be surprised if Jacobs comes in gigantic like Lemieux supposedly did.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

JamieC said:


> I guess the question is whether it has become habitual or whether he's consciously departing from them, I think it's the latter and come a Canelo like fight he will revert to what he's done most of his life.
> 
> Watch Jacobs catch him with a massive right hook counter and end this discussion tonight :lol:


Yeah it is unclear because of that very reason imo. I think tonight will partly answer that. Jacobs is good enough that any flaws GGG shows will be genuine, and I think he'll be putting on his best performance possible.

Lol! That would be nuts. Great debating with you though thus far.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I have to watch that fight again, but did Canelo deal with Cotto's jab better than Mayweather?


Yes and no. I think Canelo countered Cotto's jab more viciously, and got hit less cleanly, but more often. Floyd got plopped right on the nose a few times flush but was able to stifle the jab more and wasn't as frozen by it.



Zopilote said:


> @Bogotazo you've seen the Gonzalez-Estrada fight right?
> 
> I think a bout between GGG and Canelo would be similiar to that, with Gennady in the role of Roman and Saul in the role of Juan Francisco. And like his Nicaraguan flyweight counterpart, i see GGG taking it.
> 
> Key diffrences of course being that Estrada has a higher output and superior stamina than Canelo, while Gonzalez is much better defensively coming forward than Golovkin.


Yep I'll have to rewatch that too, it's not a bad comparison. I could definitely see that outcome.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Jacobs is a super drainer so of no surprise really. Hes far from the only one at it is he?


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yes and no. I think Canelo countered Cotto's jab more viciously, and got hit less cleanly, but more often. Floyd got plopped right on the nose a few times flush but was able to stifle the jab more and wasn't as frozen by it.
> 
> Yep I'll have to rewatch that too, it's not a bad comparison. I could definitely see that outcome.


Thanks, I haven't watched the fight since that day. It's definetely worth rewatching


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## Graemeb1783 (Jan 29, 2017)

Does Jacobs get penalised at all for missing the Ibf weigh in? 

What time are ringwalks likely to be for the fight?


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Graemeb1783 said:


> Does Jacobs get penalised at all for missing the Ibf weigh in?
> 
> What time are ringwalks likely to be for the fight?


He can't win the IBF.

I'd guess around 11.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah it is unclear because of that very reason imo. I think tonight will partly answer that. Jacobs is good enough that any flaws GGG shows will be genuine, and I think he'll be putting on his best performance possible.
> 
> Lol! That would be nuts. Great debating with you though thus far.


Agreed this fight has me worried for sure, GGG is the better boxer, but Jacobs is coming in heavy, confident and with a reach and hand speed advantage. It will certainly test GGG's fundamentals. And I'm not writing Canelo off either, I rate him highly, I just think GGG's power gets somewhat overrated and his fundamentals somewhat underrated.

Agreed, good debate, shows what a good fight it is.


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## TheBoxingfan101 (Sep 16, 2013)

imo jacobs will win by early KO,
GGG gets hit a lot and jacobs will make him pay


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## TheBoxingfan101 (Sep 16, 2013)

any idea what time in the uk the ring walk will be?


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## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

Vic said:


> I really believe Golovkin gets hit not because he trusts his chin like many say or because he can´t be bothered about defending against people he has no respect for......
> 
> I think he really doesn´t have great defense...... I know I know, he occasionally shows good head movement, but defense in Boxing is something done by instinct inside the ring, after too much training you don´t think consciously anymore about moving your head, you just do... you simply do... and GGG doesn´t do it too much, he is not defensive minded !
> His boxing brain is not disciplined enough to make him do it all the times he needs it. I will never believe someone gets hit by pro boxers because he wants to... punches hurt.
> ...


I don't disagree with your analysis and it's hard to pull against guys like Jacobs, but I can't envision a scenario in which his chin holds up against GGG.


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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

TeddyL said:


> Don't read too much into him skipping the IBF weigh in.
> 
> It does not mean that "he's going to be huge"


Why else would he skip it?


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Why else would he skip it?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/843157573322784768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/843158111858970624
Because he's doing everything he can to win... even showing up gigantic. :lol:


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)




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## Pedrin1787 (Dec 24, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/843157573322784768
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/843158111858970624
> Because he's doing everything he can to win... even showing up gigantic. :lol:


:rofl

Don't blame the dude.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Lester1583 said:


>


As long as Chris okays it!


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

This is a great fight, and is a far more competitive match up than GGG-Canelo ever could have been. I lean towards GGG but Jacobs can fight a long range disciplined fight and get the decision. We are about to see how good GGG really is.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I re-watched the fight recently and Garcia was timing Matthysse early on in close rounds. The pattern simply continued, though I do acknowledge the eye injury. Lemieux was a stocky shorter puncher with 0 head movement, that's the only kind of opponent Golovkin is going to outbox at a distance. He's not going to comfortably outbox Canelo that way. He already abandons certain fundamentals in his fights, the fact he's winning them doesn't erase that. The way you're describing he'll beat Canelo just doesn't make any sense. He was losing the battle of the jabs against Kell Brook.
> 
> This is what Golovkin looks like advancing on someone who can fight on the outside with speed. His head almost never goes off-center.
> 
> ...


Really well done, Bogo!

These clips also emphasize my earlier point: As you say yourself, Golovkin's head slips are almost always straight back, not to the side. He also doesn't have the foot speed to close the distance when his opponent backs up fast. Jacobs should be able to move away, then fire an attack, with Golovkin just out of reach. (Due to both Jacob's back foot technique, and his significant reach advantage.)

I STLL think Golovkin will win, due to his toughness & relentless pressure, but at a minimum he will probably have to absorb a lot of punishment in the process. (Unless Jacobs makes a big mistake in the early rounds.)


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> Brook has better legs (no ****). :lol:


kinda' ****. :yep :wales

:sad5


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## TeddyL (Oct 5, 2013)

Pedrin1787 said:


> Why else would he skip it?


Theres a lot of reasons it could be. He might be feeling not great, he might not of made weight well. When theres 3 belts on the line you don't need to kill yourself just for the sake of 1


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## LayItDown (Jun 17, 2013)

Mexi-Box said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/843157573322784768
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/843158111858970624
> Because he's doing everything he can to win... even showing up gigantic. :lol:


Fuckin' DAN should be required for a, 'mandated weight check.'


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

GGG KO 6


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## Vic (Jun 7, 2012)

This is a robbery.


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## TeddyL (Oct 5, 2013)

I backed Jacobs, for the reasons you saw in the fight. GGG's abilities do not match the hype. It was not a robbery however - a win either way was acceptable given it was so close.


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## Floyd_g.o.a.t (Jun 11, 2013)

Vic said:


> I really believe Golovkin gets hit not because he trusts his chin like many say or because he can´t be bothered about defending against people he has no respect for......
> 
> I think he really doesn´t have great defense...... I know I know, he occasionally shows good head movement, but defense in Boxing is something done by instinct inside the ring, after too much training you don´t think consciously anymore about moving your head, you just do... you simply do... and GGG doesn´t do it too much, he is not defensive minded !
> His boxing brain is not disciplined enough to make him do it all the times he needs it. I will never believe someone gets hit by pro boxers because he wants to... punches hurt.
> ...


You called it. Well done mate.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> This is a great fight, and is a far more competitive match up than GGG-Canelo ever could have been. I lean towards GGG but Jacobs can fight a long range disciplined fight and get the decision. We are about to see how good GGG really is.


Are you ever wrong?


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

dyna said:


> Are you ever wrong?


Yeah, when he said Lomachenko would be P4P number 1 by now and that he would be undefeated. He was wildly wrong there.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Yeah, when he said Lomachenko would be P4P number 1 by now and that he would be undefeated. He was wildly wrong there.


Unbiased source here.

Lomachenko is P4P #1, cheated and undefeated.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

dyna said:


> Unbiased source here.
> 
> Lomachenko is P4P #1, cheated and undefeated.


If you want to discuss facts I'm happy to do that.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Yeah, when he said Lomachenko would be P4P number 1 by now and that he would be undefeated. He was wildly wrong there.


I said within 10 fights. Teddy Atlas and Roy Jones have him as number one already. And that's with multiple fighters ducking Lomahenko, resulting in a couple of no names on his record. So I'd say I was exactly right with that one, and you mocked me for it and put my quote in your signature. So thank you for the reminder.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Dealt_with said:


> I said within 10 fights. Teddy Atlas and Roy Jones have him as number one already. And that's with multiple fighters ducking Lomahenko, resulting in a couple of no names on his record. So I'd say I was exactly right with that one, and you mocked me for it and put my quote in your signature. So thank you for the reminder.


So two people on the planet consider him to be P4P number one.

And would you like to address his L?

Spin, dude. Spin it!


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