# Khan V Garcia 2



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Khan just posted that Garcia has agreed to a rematch in the UK.

How do you see it going?

What would Khan have to change or do better to turn it around?

good fight or pointless rematch?


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## Roe (Jun 1, 2012)

Doubt it'll happen. Garcia would just catch him again.


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## Trinity (Jun 1, 2012)

Khan is a delusional cunt.


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## wrimc (Jun 4, 2012)

Khan can outbox him if he wants to no problem. If he will...............thats a different question. I would be happy to see this. A bit of patience from Khan and I still think he could take Garcia out in the later rounds. Came with completely the wrong gameplan and attitude last night. Go in fast try and bang him out early essentially Zab Judah him. It nearly worked, Garcia didnt look to pretty by the middle of the 3rd. Khan was reckless though not measured enough in his approach.

If Khan tries the same again it will probably be the same result. If he sticks and moves stays at range it can be a fairly easy points win for Khan. I called it here first. I f this ever comes off.


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## Nyanners :sad5 (Jun 8, 2012)

Full credit to Khan for wanting to get it on again, he's got balls, that kid.

Could be career suicide though. Saying that, he might box ala Kotelnik for the whole 12 rounds and get a UD then continue to fight the way he does until he gets twatted at Welterweight again.


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## NoMas (Jun 7, 2012)

Khan just needs to box, keeps his hands up and use his legs... He can beat anyone using them tactics, his speed is outstanding... But for somereason He wants to Be something hes not, hes not A Mexican style fighter, why make his fights tougher then they need to Be?


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## NoMas (Jun 7, 2012)

It wouldnt Be pointless because Garcia's no got all the belts Khan wants, I just think Amir needs to have A look at himself and revaluate the way He fights, if I was him I would wanna have some confidence building fights...


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## Bajingo (May 31, 2012)

Same result I'm afraid.


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## wrimc (Jun 4, 2012)

NoMas said:


> It wouldnt Be pointless because Garcia's no got all the belts Khan wants, I just think Amir needs to have A look at himself and revaluate the way He fights, if I was him I would wanna have some confidence building fights...


He doesnt need any confidence builders. He already has to much confidence thats the problem. He needs to be a bit more tentative cant be unloading willy nilly like that against a live opponent in the 3rd.


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## NoMas (Jun 7, 2012)

wrimc said:


> He doesnt need any confidence builders. He already has to much confidence thats the problem. He needs to be a bit more tentative cant be unloading willy nilly like that against a live opponent in the 3rd.


i was thinking that, thats why i said if i was him... but after a fight like this, 2 l's in a row, and his humbleness for the first time after a fight, i think even his confidence must of taken a hit (no pun) he defo wont be on ppv in vegas next fight... i dont even wanna see him and kell brook tbh... for the sake of british boxing, i wanna see both khan and brook progress, if khan loses to brook hes finished, and if brook loses its a slap in the face to brook, i feel that fights a lose/lose for us brits..


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## sg-85 (Jun 21, 2012)

Have my doubts about it actually happening. The fight id love to see now at 140 is Garcia vs Rios, guaranteed action. But obviously wont happen because of GBP / TR ties.


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## Libertarian (Jun 2, 2012)

I don't think they'll take it.

If he hadn't had back to back defeats I'm quite certain they would.... but he's bound to be low after that.

Pretty much every flaw he has in his game has been shown up in his last two fights.

His chin is poor, his defence is leaky and his footwork puts him in harm's way. 

I'm curious as to why he was circling to his right a lot, considering Garcia is primarily a left hooker with a right hand that he overextends quite a lot - surely you're better catching those than the meaty left hands?


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## Meast (Jun 3, 2012)

wrimc said:


> Khan can outbox him if he wants to no problem. If he will...............thats a different question.


Yep that's it. He needs to learn to control himself, I bet Roach was going fucking nuts.

When he was punching and moving last night Garcia was lost, plus he had a couple of cuts coming on.....if only Khan kept his head.


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## Meast (Jun 3, 2012)

I reckon Khan needs a couple of tune up fights before he fights Garcia again, I can't see the outcome being any different if he rematches straight away.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Garcia's dad says no to a rematch - said it is pointless because the first fight was decisive.

Fair play but its likely that Khan is still the biggest fight he can get in terms of money.


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## Scotty (Jun 6, 2012)

On the scene.

*A rematch seems unlikely as Garcia's father and trainer Angel told BoxingScene.com that the victory was decisive and that a rematch wasn't needed.

"If this was a decision win where maybe some people don't agree with it then okay we can do a rematch but this was a knockout. There is no need for a rematch. Danny can move on to bigger and better things," Garcia told BoxingScene.com.

"Why give him a rematch? For what? He disrespected Danny as an opponent. He treated him like a pushover. We're not giving him a rematch. It's like an old pair of shoes."

"Why are we going to fight somebody we just beat? We have better things in life. That's the past. We're going to look at the future. He's done. He's over. He's the ex-champion. Three times ex-champion."*

I still won't rule it out though. If GBP want it to happen, then it will.

I think a new coach for Amir is needed too. Roach seems to focus on Khan developing power and transforming him into Pac II. I'm with No Mas in how Khan needs to fight if he wants to continue his career.
I'm not going to shit on Khans chin. He never saw the wild punch that turned the fight. I mean Garcia didn't see it either! It reminded me a bit of how Martinez wiped out Williams. Just never got his balance right after that. I didn't think Khan could stop Garcia who didn't get the credit he deserved for beating Kendal Holt. I mean Holt landed some monster shots on the kid early doors and he didn't budge. Khan landed some great shots too when he was trying to fight his way out of trouble but Garcia didn't bat an eyelid and just went on about his business.

I wouldn't mind a rematch to be honest. That was a great fight while it lasted.


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## Meast (Jun 3, 2012)

Wonder what Garcia will do next, winner of the Alexander _vs_ Bailey maybe? Or go for Bradley.


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## HourglassUppercut (Jun 6, 2012)

NoMas said:


> It wouldnt Be pointless because Garcia's no got all the belts Khan wants, I just think Amir needs to have A look at himself and revaluate the way He fights, if I was him I would wanna have some confidence building fights...


Khan's had years of confidence building fights against old super feathers at lightweight, as soon as he stepped up in weight and competition he has been exposed, no more excuses here, he just isn't good enough.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

We're still giving Khan the benefit of the doubt if he completely changes his style and attitude? It won't happen. Fighters don't change all that radically very often. He'd get clipped, and then his instinct will be to throw back. He'd just get caught again. 

It would take him a bit longer, but Garcia would end up winning by stoppage again.


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## Meast (Jun 3, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> We're still giving Khan the benefit of the doubt if he completely changes his style and attitude? It won't happen. Fighters don't change all that radically very often. He'd get clipped, and then his instinct will be to throw back. He'd just get caught again.
> 
> It would take him a bit longer, but Garcia would end up winning by stoppage again.


Cotto did a pretty good job of keeping cool vs Mayweather compared to Pac. Soon as he got caught by Pac the rest mist came down.

Fighters can change with enough time and effort.

Khan is still learning, I don't think it's fair to write him off just yet. I don't think he should fight Garcia next anyway, that would be a bad move. He needs to go back to basics (again)


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## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Trinity said:


> Khan is a delusional cunt.


why? For wanting a rematch with someone who just knocked him senseless? Khan has a lot of heart.


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## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Khan will get stopped again if this fight happens.


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## Libertarian (Jun 2, 2012)

I'm surprised that Angel Garcia has come out and said no, usually when someone is the underdog and wins like that they'll want to get in there and do it again, to prove that it wasn't no fluke - which it clearly wasn't.

Unless there are other options out there for them that are more lucrative I see no reason why they wouldn't go for Khan again.

Potentially back to back KO wins over Khan would be big, even taking into account Amir's obvious flaws.


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## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

do you lads think the bookies would make Khan the favourite if this was going to happen? I reckon that bookies might do, I'd put everything I own on Garcia and rake it in!


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Meast said:


> Cotto did a pretty good job of keeping cool vs Mayweather compared to Pac. Soon as he got caught by Pac the rest mist came down.
> 
> Fighters can change with enough time and effort.
> 
> Khan is still learning, I don't think it's fair to write him off just yet. I don't think he should fight Garcia next anyway, that would be a bad move. He needs to go back to basics (again)


You think Cotto radically changed his style and appoach against Floyd Mayweather? Manny Pacquiao is a killer; Mayweather didn't pose the same threats offensively as the Filipino. It was a different fight altogether.

What you're asking of Khan is to step into the ring with a guy who just cleaned him up in 4 rounds and be a completely different fighter? I suppose stranger things have happened, but I wouldn't count on it happening. Let's not forget, the style Khan employed last night it was what we've been used to seeing, and it's the style that has got him this far.

People slept on Garcia. He's a lot better than people were giving him credit for. I didn't expect him to do it inside 5 rounds, but I knew he posed a major threat.


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## Meast (Jun 3, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> You think Cotto radically changed his style and appoach against Floyd Mayweather? Manny Pacquiao is a killer; Mayweather didn't pose the same threats offensively as the Filipino. It was a different fight altogether.
> 
> What you're asking of Khan is to step into the ring with a guy who just cleaned him up in 4 rounds and be a completely different fighter? I suppose stranger things have happened, but I wouldn't count on it happening. Let's not forget, the style Khan employed last night it was what we've been used to seeing, and it's the style that has got him this far.
> 
> People slept on Garcia. He's a lot better than people were giving him credit for. I didn't expect him to do it inside 5 rounds, but I knew he posed a major threat.


I was talking about Cotto's attitude, he was a lot more together against Mayweather. Granted though, they are completely different fighters.

Hold on, dinners ready...I'll be back


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

I just think it's a stretch, that's all. I see no reason to favour Khan in a rematch after what we saw last night. It was a massacre, let's be fair.


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## Libertarian (Jun 2, 2012)

Teeto said:


> do you lads think the bookies would make Khan the favourite if this was going to happen? I reckon that bookies might do, I'd put everything I own on Garcia and rake it in!


I think Khan would be a slight favourite when the market opens, but Garcia would be hammered into something like 4/6 close to fight night.

There's always the retard/patriotic betting element with British fighters. I remember sitting on the roulette machine in my local betting shop whilst waiting for a few mates to go to the pub and some 'tard laid £100 on Hatton to knock Pacquiao out in the first round.

''Pacquiao hasn't ever beaten a top light welter before. Hatton will knock him out with a body shot'' were probably his thoughts.

Some people might think that Garcia landed a lucky punch because he wasn't looking, even though he'd been throwing that shot all night, was only a matter of time before he landed a biggie and put Khan out of his misery.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Dinamita said:


> I think Khan would be a slight favourite when the market opens, but Garcia would be hammered into something like 4/6 close to fight night.
> 
> There's always the retard/patriotic betting element with British fighters. I remember sitting on the roulette machine in my local betting shop whilst waiting for a few mates to go to the pub and some 'tard laid £100 on Hatton to knock Pacquiao out in the first round.
> 
> ...


Garcia has had a history of landing that same left hook. It's almost the same shot that had Morales on the canvas. It was no accident, Khan was just far too open when he was throwing those patented flurries of his. You could almost see it coming.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Dinamita said:


> I think Khan would be a slight favourite when the market opens, but Garcia would be hammered into something like 4/6 close to fight night.
> 
> There's always the retard/patriotic betting element with British fighters. I remember sitting on the roulette machine in my local betting shop whilst waiting for a few mates to go to the pub and some 'tard laid £100 on Hatton to knock Pacquiao out in the first round.
> 
> ...


I remember when I was a kid and my took me to the bookies to bet on the Tyson V Bruno 2 fight, I said I wanted to bet on Tyson to do him in thethird and he talked me out of it saying I should back the British fighter. National pride definitely shouldn't affect you picks at the bookies, it makes no sense whatsoever


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## NoMas (Jun 7, 2012)

HourglassUppercut said:


> Khan's had years of confidence building fights against old super feathers at lightweight, as soon as he stepped up in weight and competition he has been exposed, no more excuses here, he just isn't good enough.


ive never been a big khan fan from day one... after two losses in a row, and one being a devastating ko, i dont care who you are your confidence takes a hit... hes good enough when he fights to his advantages, the problem is his ego, he wants to be something hes not, a banger... he needs to get sat down by a strong personality and put his place, and said, either your gonna listen or you can go and commentary ringside with all the ex fighters...


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## Scotty (Jun 6, 2012)

NoMas said:


> ive never been a big khan fan from day one... after two losses in a row, and one being a devastating ko, i dont care who you are your confidence takes a hit... hes good enough when he fights to his advantages, the problem is his ego, he wants to be something hes not, a banger... he needs to get sat down by a strong personality and put his place, and said, either your gonna listen or you can go and commentary ringside with all the ex fighters...


Strong personality you say?:yep


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

NoMas said:


> ive never been a big khan fan from day one... after two losses in a row, and one being a devastating ko, i dont care who you are your confidence takes a hit... hes good enough when he fights to his advantages, the problem is his ego, he wants to be something hes not, a banger... he needs to get sat down by a strong personality and put his place, and said, either your gonna listen or you can go and commentary ringside with all the ex fighters...


Roach had a gameplan for him all camp, but as soon as Khan enters the ring it seemingly goes out of the window. Khan is going to produce some entertaining fights for us all until the day he retires. He isn't a great fighter though, and that will be reflected in his record when it's all said and done. Either that or he completely changes his attitude and style, but what do you consider more likely? Good luck to him.


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## sim_reiss (Jun 6, 2012)

Meast said:


> Wonder what Garcia will do next, winner of the Alexander _vs_ Bailey maybe? Or go for Bradley.


Garcia-Matthyse would be tasty.


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## Trinity (Jun 1, 2012)

Teeto said:


> why? For wanting a rematch with someone who just knocked him senseless? Khan has a lot of heart.


No, just in general. :smug


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## Danny (May 31, 2012)

Khan CAN beat Garcia in a rematch. I'd be wary of backing him outright because he's so up-and-down in terms of whether he actually learns lessons from fights. He did after Prescott until Maidana. He did after Maidana until Peterson. Maybe back-to-back defeats will really hurt his confidence to the point where he can no longer comeback refreshed having actually learned something, but with Khan's heart, you just don't know.

But let's be honest, on talent, there's no way he should be losing to guys like Peterson and Garcia. You can't ever rule-out Khan in this rematch because he's clearly the superior talent, he's still in his physical prime, he has a tonne of heart and he HAS at points showed he's learnt from mistakes at least in the short-term.

The way I see it, Garcia can't beat Khan, the latter can only beat himself. If he boxes in the way he knows he should, this wouldn't be remotely close. There's a big question mark over whether he would in a rematch, but based on what Khan has going for him, I just can't rule him out.


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## Meast (Jun 3, 2012)

sim_reiss said:


> Garcia-Matthyse would be tasty.


Yeah it would! Or Maidana


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## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

It's so bloody frustrating watching Khan fuck himself repeatedly. I've maintained the position that he could beat Peterson if he didn't start trading, and I'd favor him against Garcia also. He completely underestimates these guys whilst in the ring and try's to punish or hurt them. He's not Pacquiao or Barrera, he's a lightning quick boxer with a very shaky chin. He needs to accept his flaws and overcome them.
I think he should go to Steward. Roach just isn't right for him, he's not teaching him to overcome his flaws but rather trying to maximize his offense when he should be trying to become more movement and defensively oriented.


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## Meast (Jun 3, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> I just think it's a stretch, that's all. I see no reason to favour Khan in a rematch after what we saw last night. It was a massacre, let's be fair.


As I've said in previous posts I don't think Khan should fight Garcia next, that would be a terrible idea. He needs to take time off, learn and take a few more 'easier' fights before he goes anywhere near Garcia again.

My point was that he *can* change, tighten up his defence and sort his head out. There's no reason why he can't fight Garcia in 2-3 fights time and beat him.


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## Meast (Jun 3, 2012)

orriray59 said:


> It's so bloody frustrating watching Khan fuck himself repeatedly. I've maintained the position that he could beat Peterson if he didn't start trading, and I'd favor him against Garcia also. He completely underestimates these guys whilst in the ring and try's to punish or hurt them. He's not Pacquiao or Barrera, he's a lightning quick boxer with a very shaky chin. He needs to accept his flaws and overcome them.
> I think he should go to Steward. Roach just isn't right for him, he's not teaching him to overcome his flaws but rather trying to maximize his offense when he should be trying to become more movement and defensively oriented.


The thing is you hear Roach speak after and he's saying that Khan should have used 1-2 punches and moved on, that was the plan. Khan just can't seem to carry it out, he gets cocky, starts throwing combo after combo and then gets caught.


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## NoMas (Jun 7, 2012)

thats the thing, i dont think khan can stick to a game plan... he doesnt atm anyways

i think steward would be a good call orriray59, he trains the klitschkos who have a similar chin problem as khan and has worked round it... but little i said when your 9ft and have a reach of 11meters i guess it makes life easier lol


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## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

Meast said:


> The thing is you hear Roach speak after and he's saying that Khan should have used 1-2 punches and moved on, that was the plan. Khan just can't seem to carry it out, he gets cocky, starts throwing combo after combo and then gets caught.


Yeah, I agree. It's a shame too because he's such a talent with that speed of his. He could've got the job done last night, he was battering Garcia on the outside while jumping in, hitting him, and retreating. He then started to go hell for leather on Danny to prove himself and got put down.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

TommyV said:


> Khan CAN beat Garcia in a rematch. I'd be wary of backing him outright because he's so up-and-down in terms of whether he actually learns lessons from fights. He did after Prescott until Maidana. He did after Maidana until Peterson. Maybe back-to-back defeats will really hurt his confidence to the point where he can no longer comeback refreshed having actually learned something, but with Khan's heart, you just don't know.
> 
> But let's be honest, on talent, there's no way he should be losing to guys like Peterson and Garcia. You can't ever rule-out Khan in this rematch because he's clearly the superior talent, he's still in his physical prime, he has a tonne of heart and he HAS at points showed he's learnt from mistakes at least in the short-term.
> 
> The way I see it, Garcia can't beat Khan, the latter can only beat himself. If he boxes in the way he knows he should, this wouldn't be remotely close. There's a big question mark over whether he would in a rematch, but based on what Khan has going for him, I just can't rule him out.


Do you honestly feel this way, Tommy?

I suppose you could say Khan learned his lesson up until the Maidana fight, but then you look at the guys he saw off and it really is an underwhelming list of names. The Kotelnik win was decent, as was the Paulie victory, but outside of that you have an ancient and under-sized MAB, Salita and his padded record, and a school teacher. Khan didn't really win those fights because he improved in any particular area, they were just average talents or great stylistic match-ups.

After the Maidana war, he bounced back with wins over McCloskey and Zab Judah. I'm not totally rubbishing his achievements and these wins, but can we really gauge just how much Khan improved by fighting that level of opposition? Judah hasn't been a real force in a long time, and McCloskey was a European level operator. It's no coincidence that all of the best opponents Khan has fought have all given him a hard time.

I actually consider Garcia to be a superior fighter to Amir Khan. I think he has tighter defense, he delivers the majority of shots with greater technique, and he stays solid even when under fire. Khan has great speed and a great physique, but the man has been getting beaten up by these so called lesser talents for awhile now. Maidana had him flailing around the ring. Peterson bullied him for the best part of 12 rounds, and now Garcia has absolutely destroyed him in double quick time.

Khan doesn't have it in him to put on masterclass performances against top tier competition who can punch. Throw him in with Paulie Malignaggi and he'll win every round, otherwise always expect a hard night's work for the man from Bolton.


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## Danny (May 31, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Do you honestly feel this way, Tommy?
> 
> I suppose you could say Khan learned his lesson up until the Maidana fight, but then you look at the guys he saw off and it really is an underwhelming list of names. The Kotelnik win was decent, as was the Paulie victory, but outside of that you have an ancient and under-sized MAB, Salita and his padded record, and a school teacher. Khan didn't really win those fights because he improved in any particular area, they were just average talents or great stylistic match-ups.
> 
> ...


I find it hard to take this post seriously after that comment to be honest. Did you watch the first two and a half rounds of this fight?


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

TommyV said:


> I find it hard to take this post seriously after that comment to be honest. Did you watch the first two and a half rounds of this fight?


Fair enough. If you're going to be like that we're better off just agreeing to disagree.

Hope you enjoyed the fight. :thumbsup


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## Meast (Jun 3, 2012)

Garcia was very wild with a lot of punches, there's no denying that. I think the punch that first KO'd Khan was a blind shot. But it worked for him so it's irrelevant, his game plan was there from the first bell.


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## Danny (May 31, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Fair enough. If you're going to be like that we're better off just agreeing to disagree.
> 
> Hope you enjoyed the fight. :thumbsup


Khan has a leaky defence for sure, but so does Garcia. He gets hit a lot, even in this fight, Khan was landing at nearly 50% early on.

As for having better punching technique, most of his shots were wild.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

TommyV said:


> Khan has a leaky defence for sure, but so does Garcia. He gets hit a lot, even in this fight, Khan was landing at nearly 50% early on.
> 
> As for having better punching technique, most of his shots were wild.


Garcia was always going to have to take shots in this fight. Khan has ridiculously fast hands, and he seemed to be throwing a lot more meaningful punches in the first two rounds compared to Garcia. Once he weathered the early storm though, Garcia was evading and countering well in that third round. He mixed it up to the body, and then of course landed that left hook. This isn't to say that Garcia is particularly strong defensively, but he's far less likely to get hit by a clean shot than Amir Khan is. Did Khan land anything really big in the fight? He threw a lot of punches in those 2 and a half rounds.

Garcia had to stray a little from his usual style in this one. I think he knew in order to get the job done he would have to go out of comfort zone a little and throw really hard shots early. Amir Khan is a big target, and once he starts wading in with those flurries he is very open to getting caught. I remember Garcia being much more economical and tidy in the Kendall Holt fight.

I might be giving Garcia too much credit, but I honestly see no reason to favour Khan in a return bout. He got clobbered.


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## Scotty (Jun 6, 2012)

More news from the Scene..

If Khan decides to remain as 140-pounds, Schaefer feels the biggest possible option would be a rematch with Garcia - a fight that HBO would love to secure.

In the near future, Schaefer plans to sit down with Team Khan and discuss the proper path for the British star's next fight.

"For Amir, the question is going to be if wants to stay at 140, or move up to 147," Schaefer told BoxingScene.com.

"[At 147], there could be Devon Alexander is he wins against Randall Bailey. If [Robert] Guerrero would win [against Selcuck Aydin], a fight with Guerrero. I can even see a rematch with [WBA champion] Paulie Malignaggi, at 147. Paulie has looked very good. Amir coming off this now, going for a title at 147, I could see that. There are definitely opportunities at 147.

"And I think if he wants to stay at 140, I think the only real big fight at 140, let's face it, would be a rematch with Garcia."


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## Libertarian (Jun 2, 2012)

It wouldn't surprise me for them to go after Paulie.

It's an easier way to paper over the cracks than taking a deep look at yourself in the mirror and where you're going wrong.

If he wins, superficially he'll be right back where he wants to be.


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## Ilesey (Jun 8, 2012)

Garcia would probably give him another beating. The blueprint is set now. 

Khan has let his ego run away with him at times. He seemingly learnt nothing from the Peterson fight and his defense at times was shocking. He stood there and just ate punches with his hands up and then called Garcia in who duly obliged. There is no sugar coating this one. Nobody to blame. He was beaten......hammered by what looks to be a solid fighter. 

Ever since he announced he was fighting Peterson for the first time, I thought his head was all over the shop. He couldn't focus on the task at hand, kept talking about Mayweather and being a general cunt on twitter. 

Things couldn't have gone worse for him. I'd love to see him fight Brook in a couple of fights time. For now though, I'm not sure how he is going to respond to this.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

NoMas said:


> Khan just needs to box, keeps his hands up and use his legs... He can beat anyone using them tactics, his speed is outstanding... But for somereason He wants to Be something hes not, hes not A Mexican style fighter, why make his fights tougher then they need to Be?


No! He'd need to redesign the way he throws punches, he isn't able to outbox people like people say he is! Kotelnik was a good styles matchup for Khan.

He isn't that good, people need to accept that rather than just assuming this is something easily fixable. If everyone could be a brilliant ring general they would, Amir is not capable.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

TommyV said:


> I find it hard to take this post seriously after that comment to be honest. Did you watch the first two and a half rounds of this fight?


Disagree big time (first time ever I think) Khan has poor punching form his only 'talent' is fast hands.

If he threw proper punches he'd be slower anyway IMO.

Not super talented at all IMO, in fact, pretty woeful.


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## NoMas (Jun 7, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> No! He'd need to redesign the way he throws punches, he isn't able to outbox people like people say he is! Kotelnik was a good styles matchup for Khan.
> 
> He isn't that good, people need to accept that rather than just assuming this is something easily fixable. If everyone could be a brilliant ring general they would, Amir is not capable.


yes! khan is a good fighter, you dont get to his level by not being a good fighter, he might no be great, but hes is world class... he is super quick, has great footwork and he does throw excellent combinations... but he does get caught, but when he boxers and throws combos, he looks world class... hes just always venerable... he will win a form of a world title again... for 2rounds he was schooling garcia, but you always knew he was gonna get hit and possibly fold...


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## Zico (Jun 5, 2012)

I'm not saying Khan would beat Garcia in a re-match, but he fought the wrong fight last night. If he'd have kept the distance and picked-off Garcia he may well have broken him down as the rounds wore on.

Instead he stepped in and allowed Danny to get off counters and trade with him.

Suicidal gameplan by Amir in hindsight, he underestimated/overlooked Danny Garcia.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

NoMas said:


> yes! khan is a good fighter, you dont get to his level by not being a good fighter, he might no be great, but hes is world class... he is super quick, has great footwork and he does throw excellent combinations... but he does get caught, but when he boxers and throws combos, he looks world class... hes just always venerable... he will win a form of a world title again... for 2rounds he was schooling garcia, but you always knew he was gonna get hit and possibly fold...


Sorry mate but his footwork is absolutely appalling, hence why he got knocked out last night. His feet are all over the shop whenever he throws a punch.

I have no idea why people think he's a boxer, probably because he was an Olympian, but watch him then, he was a whirlwind of fast hands and big balls, not Hector Camacho.


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## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

If Froch and Bute are going to rematch, I see no reason why Khan and Garcia can't either.


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## NoMas (Jun 7, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Sorry mate but his footwork is absolutely appalling, hence why he got knocked out last night. His feet are all over the shop whenever he throws a punch.
> 
> I have no idea why people think he's a boxer, probably because he was an Olympian, but watch him then, he was a whirlwind of fast hands and big balls, not Hector Camacho.


i disagree, at times when he when fights his own fight, he punches and moves brilliantly, he doenst punch off balance or anything like that... he hits and moves to the side and looks world class at times.. hes not the best at anything by any means, im not saying that, but he does look world class when hes on his job...

i just watched the fight again, and kenny bayless gave khan to many chances? a standing 8? i think he should of stopped it earlier to...


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## Danny (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Disagree big time (first time ever I think) Khan has poor punching form his only 'talent' is fast hands.
> 
> If he threw proper punches he'd be slower anyway IMO.
> 
> Not super talented at all IMO, in fact, pretty woeful.


I'm not saying Khan has perfect punching form, especially when it comes to combinations, but I'd say it's better than Garcia's. The only really text-book type of shot Garcia throws is the overhand right from time to time. His jab is a bit loose compared to Khan's and his hooks are often wide.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> No! He'd need to redesign the way he throws punches, he isn't able to outbox people like people say he is! Kotelnik was a good styles matchup for Khan.
> 
> He isn't that good, people need to accept that rather than just assuming this is something easily fixable. If everyone could be a brilliant ring general they would, Amir is not capable.


I feel the same way.

Amir can't just go back to training camp and learn how to be a boxer. He isn't that guy. The way some posters are talking it's as if Amir adopted some kind of new style for this fight and it came back to bite him in the ass. He approached Garcia just like he approached virtually of his other opponents, and he got stopped as a result. I'm pretty sure the adjustments would have been made a long time ago if he had it in him because let's be honest, it hasn't been smooth sailing for Khan ever since he really stepped up in competition.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> I feel the same way.
> 
> Amir can't just go back to training camp and learn how to be a boxer. He isn't that guy. The way some posters are talking it's as if Amir adopted some kind of new style for this fight and it came back to bite him in the ass. He approached Garcia just like he approached virtually of his other opponents, and he got stopped as a result. I'm pretty sure the adjustments would have been made a long time ago if he had it in him.


As I say, it's been his style since the amateurs @NoMas it IS his fight, why does everyone think he's a boxer, he's not!
@TommyV all fair points, prior to this I considered Garcia a pretty looping shoe shiner. And still do, the first punch that massively floored Khan was a Fedor esque-thumb punch that landed with the side of Garcia's hand, not the knuckle. And as I say, the last knockdown was just down to Khan being a scrap of wet paper in the resistance department.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> As I say, it's been his style since the amateurs @NoMas it IS his fight, why does everyone think he's a boxer, he's not!
> @TommyV all fair points, prior to this I considered Garcia a pretty looping shoe shiner. And still do, the first punch that massively floored Khan was a Fedor esque-thumb punch that landed with the side of Garcia's hand, not the knuckle. And as I say, the last knockdown was just down to Khan being a scrap of wet paper in the resistance department.


I'd sooner describe Khan as being a shoe-shiner to be honest. Garcia looked like he was trying to hurt Khan with almost everything he threw in those first couple of rounds the other night. Against the likes of Morales and Holt, Garcia threw some very hurtful looking punches, and had both of those fighters badly hurt at one point or another. He's not anything special technique-wise, but I think he still has the edge over Khan. Khan seems to throw the same flurry in all of his fights, and if that doesn't get his opponent's attention he's reduced to a nervous wreck, running from one side of the ring to the other.


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## NoMas (Jun 7, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> I feel the same way.
> 
> Amir can't just go back to training camp and learn how to be a boxer. He isn't that guy. The way some posters are talking it's as if Amir adopted some kind of new style for this fight and it came back to bite him in the ass. He approached Garcia just like he approached virtually of his other opponents, and he got stopped as a result. I'm pretty sure the adjustments would have been made a long time ago if he had it in him because let's be honest, it hasn't been smooth sailing for Khan ever since he really stepped up in competition.


hes already got the boxing skills though mate, he does utilize them at times, thats the thing, its not as if hes a slugger, its not like teaching joe fraiser or hagler to become like ali or leonard... khan is a box fighter, but he insists on trying to stay static and and sit down on his punches... its not him...

i just watched the fight for the 3rd time, and fck me khan took some serious punches in the 4th round, give him credit for that, but its not healthy at all, if hes gonna keep taking them like that, then he might as well retire, but i think if he sticks to boxing, then he will do alright... hes got along way back though...

time will tell though


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> I'd sooner describe Khan as being a shoe-shiner to be honest. Garcia looked like he was trying to hurt Khan with almost everything he threw in those first couple of rounds the other night. Against the likes of Morales and Holt, Garcia threw some very hurtful looking punches, and had both of those fighters badly hurt at one point or another. He's not anything special technique-wise, but I think he still has the edge over Khan. Khan seems to throw the same flurry in all of his fights, and if that doesn't get his opponent's attention he's reduced to a nervous wreck, running from one side of the ring to the other.


I'm not arguing Khan is the better puncher mate. I've slaughtered Khan for his punching technique and continued to do so today. It's only sporadically tight, like the body shot he felled Maidana with, but when he throws in combination he edges closer to his man with every shot and his feet get more and more disorganised, and he doesn't bring his punches back, throws from the chest rather than the shoulder, doesn't turn his punches over.

Still better than Del Boy though. Fuck me his right hand was abysmal last night.


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## Libertarian (Jun 2, 2012)

I think Froch is technically better than Khan to be honest, with better boxing skills.

Khan at times looks like a cross between Nigel Benn and a four round journeyman desperate not to get hit so he can earn against next week. There's no fluidity at all to his work. He's either flurrying away on the back foot or trying to bang his way out of trouble.

Very few fighters are capable of doing that effectively - he ain't one of them.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Dinamita said:


> I think Froch is technically better than Khan to be honest, with better boxing skills.
> 
> Khan at times looks like a cross between Nigel Benn and a four round journeyman desperate not to get hit so he can earn against next week. There's no fluidity at all to his work. He's either flurrying away on the back foot or trying to bang his way out of trouble.
> 
> Very few fighters are capable of doing that effectively - he ain't one of them.


Perhaps some people are just fooled by Khan's "flashy" punching. Johnny Nelson described Amir Khan as being a very skillful technician. That's bollocks. He's a great athlete with very fast hands. His work is rarely educated, and on countless occasions he has been unable to change up when it was required. Once Maidana started getting to Khan, instead of then Boxing effectively, he was being bullied around the ring. The same thing happened against Peterson. Khan has no plan B, so I don't expect him to walk into a rematch and box circles around the same guy who just blitzed him in 4 rounds.


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## Miguel2010 (Jun 5, 2012)

Khan is shit....Hes fast, thats it....

If he wants to improve he should go see Unka Roger or Big Floyd.....For me if Khan has fast hands, (hes got a fast chin) and so there is no reason why the rest of his body shouldn't follow suit.....If he can learn to get better at catching shots on his gloves, and riding shots then surely to fuck he will be a better Boxer


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## Miguel2010 (Jun 5, 2012)

If Khan was gonna be in a warm up bout before he steps up again..........Prescott anyone????


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Miguel2010 said:


> Khan is shit....Hes fast, thats it....
> 
> If he wants to improve he should go see Unka Roger or Big Floyd.....For me if Khan has fast hands, (hes got a fast chin) and so there is no reason why the rest of his body shouldn't follow suit.....If he can learn to get better at catching shots on his gloves, and riding shots then surely to fuck he will be a better Boxer


Terrible idea IMO. Even getting shaved he'll get hurt if caught right. He needs to stay out of range and avoid all contact with his opponents offence. But even Monzon, Wlad, Canto got clipped...Khan is never going to be the absolute master of range he needs to be to avoid being in life and death battles.

Although I appreciate your general sentiment, that he needs to get tighter in the defensive department, he just isn't smart enough to do it. He's never changed, why will he now?


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

This is from the Mail Online round by round.

ROUND THREE: *According to Garcia, it'll be game over for Khan in this session. I doubt it, to be honest.* The Bolton boy's speed is a joy to watch as he bobs and weaves, always just out of reach of his opponent's glove. Garcia is going downstairs in an attempt to reverse his fortunes but he's going too low and is warned. Hard to see Khan having the power to knock his opponent out but he's no top. *Khan is down after a left hook! The Brit is wobbling all over the place here with 14 seconds to go!* He makes it to the bell... just 8-10


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## Libertarian (Jun 2, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Perhaps some people are just fooled by Khan's "flashy" punching. Johnny Nelson described Amir Khan as being a very skillful technician. That's bollocks. He's a great athlete with very fast hands. His work is rarely educated, and on countless occasions he has been unable to change up when it was required. Once Maidana started getting to Khan, instead of then Boxing effectively, he was being bullied around the ring. The same thing happened against Peterson. Khan has no plan B, so I don't expect him to walk into a rematch and box circles around the same guy who just blitzed him in 4 rounds.


I think he lacks physical strength, or perhaps the confidence in how strong he is, a bit like the kid who plays rugby and then passes the ball whenever someone comes near him.....

And a problem is that he can't disguise the fact that he's quite weak, and can't kid on that he's not knackered or hurt... so he only serves to give the opponent the boost he needs to step it up and finish the job off.

I actually gave him a positive for coming through the Maidana fight, but the shot that nearly did him was wound up from Mars.

I'd like to think he's capable of beating Garcia in a return, but the so-called adjustments have been required forever and a day, and show no signs of coming along.... he probably doesn't have it in him to make them and succeed, in all honesty.

Talk of welterweight is madness, he's been smacked around the ring x3 at 140 despite being theoretically a big guy, he's not a Hatton who's short and squat with short arms either. Imagine him in with a peak DLH, Trinidad or Mosley. Actually.... don't. It'd be an ugly ending.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Dinamita I prefer Khan with same day weigh in's Vs Cuevas :yep

Muangsurin would absolutely annihilate him.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/boxing/barry-mcguigan-on-amir-khan-khan-1144034

I mean, what is that headline all about? _'Amir human after all'. _ Anyone would have thought he was winning his fights easily up until this point. There's just no perspective at all on this kid.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/boxing/barry-mcguigan-on-amir-khan-khan-1144034
> 
> I mean, what is that headline all about? _'Amir human after all'. _ Anyone would have thought he was winning his fights easily up until this point. There's just no perspective at all on this kid.


Yes, like this _he's a pure boxer fighting against type _ nonsense.

Paulie; looked ragged. Paulie was no threat stylistically or punching wise.

Kotelnik; No puncher, well schooled but basic European style. Khan's style perfect rhythm breaker. Still ragged with punching form but punched in bursts and absolutely dominated.

Judah; Dangerous, but like Garcia needed to time his shots and at this stage of his career is extensively relying on one bangs. Couldn't get his timing off, considering power Zab can generate Khan's best showing IMO. Again though, his bursts were perfect to disrupt Judah's game.

Anyone else that doesn't quite play into that? Danger for Amir. So I think even with cherrypicked opponents he'll still get upset from time to time but for his sake I hope that's the root they take from now on rather than trying to match him like an all-conquering force. He's not reliable enough.

Even if you offered him Sergio Martinez next month he'd probably step up to the plate.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

I hope anyone doesn't consider this bad taste but the way Khan goes down from shots reminds me of Johnny Owen against Pintor. I'm sure medical checks would pick up anything like that nowadays, but Khan is not there in terms of durability, the way his legs go is a consistent pattern when he's hurt and it is worrying.

I'm not Khan's biggest fan and he's a shit driver and a bit of a pleb, but he's not a bad kid, and he loves to fight. I just hope whatever he does next it's after a lot of considerate thought and with a lot of his training shenanigans ironed out. Whether or not he tries extra hard to make a stylistic shift or not, sparring wars need to be eliminated. If it breaks out, session should be halted. Khan will get hit hard in fights, he doesn't need to waste energy and braincells doing that, Shane Mosley was nails and look what it's done to him, Khan is not that natural a tough guy _physically._

Although Amir protested the stoppage and it should've been stoppe first time (exactly the same 'recovery' as first knockdown against Prescott, which should've been stopped then as well) when Bayless asks him if he's okay he tries to look composed but he looks utterly despondent, especially given the ref cam'.


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## Libertarian (Jun 2, 2012)

Not in bad taste at all.

Every time he gets hit you get that ''oh shit'' feeling.

I always remember seeing Hatton's bird with her hands over her face when he was walking through Carlos Maussa without flinching.... imagine being Khan's mother watching him get smacked around the ring x3 in his last five fights :-(

You'd tell him to give it up. I'm not saying that's what I think he should do, but a concerned family member would surely say that....


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Man, Ricky Hatton was a very good fighter. It was hard to be sure of a victory with him but more often that not he could grind it out. The British public got bad nerves when Frank Bruno was fighting.

But with Khan I don't think there's ever been a fighter where whenever he's in with anything other than a complete featherfist you think 'there's a genuine chance he could get sparked'. 

Peterson obviously doesn't have much in the way of a dig at all :yep


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## Libertarian (Jun 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, Hatton was very good. He'd waste Khan either way he wanted, via 118-110 x3 decision or by stoppage.... I'm just thinking of the reaction of people when he got twatted... and that he did, pretty often.

Against Magee, Phillips, Tszyu.... even Thaxton nailed him with some big ones - but within a few seconds he was always ready again. Khan just falls to pieces.

In fairness Peterson got him mainly to the body, I'd imagine Khan took less headshots in that fight than you'd think. Lamont just whacked him to the body and forced him back, his only response was to push. He needs to learn to clinch badly.

Just watching the 3rd KD on Sky News now, was merely a graze on the top of his head. A pub drunk ought to have taken that, tbh.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Dinamita said:


> Oh yeah, Hatton was very good. He'd waste Khan either way he wanted, via 118-110 x3 decision or by stoppage.... I'm just thinking of the reaction of people when he got twatted... and that he did, pretty often.
> 
> Against Magee, Phillips, Tszyu.... even Thaxton nailed him with some big ones - but within a few seconds he was always ready again. Khan just falls to pieces.
> 
> ...


Reading it back it looks like you I implied you said he wasn't, but I know how you assess him so in fact you'd made me get a nostalgic rush and an aww,shucks feeling  I thought of Maussa, whose awkward style may well have given Khan problems incidentally, and remembered how Hatton fought through that adversity. His chin wasn't undentable, but compared to the lad from Bolton Ricky looks like a light welter George Chuvalo.

I've said that about the last knockdown already. Apparently it was yet another thunderous shot from Garcia atsch


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## Libertarian (Jun 2, 2012)

:lol::good

No worries.

Put it this way, there's no way on this planet Hatton wouldn't be 29-0 fighting what Khan has faced, he'd probably be up around 26/27 KO's too.

Pretty much every journeyman/bum he faced was gone inside two rounds.

Prescott would have been gone inside six, ditto Maidana & Peterson.... Garcia perhaps later. I'd wager that only Zab would trouble him (yes, the old man that Khan fought), being a southpaw and all.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Dinamita said:


> :lol::good
> 
> No worries.
> 
> ...


Agree with all of this. Hatton had a gold career progression and dealt with all his obstacles as he should've done if he was an elite level fighter, which he was.

And yes, Zab would be able to time Ricky better than he did Khan, although he landed a few choppy shots on Amir, I think he'd landed something more significant on Ricky. But he'd get broken down and stopped.

I wouldn't be so sure of Khan in with Tackie to be perfectly honest, he'd be there all night and could crack on occasion :yep


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## Libertarian (Jun 2, 2012)

Would you have Hatton stopping Kotelnik? :think

I'd have Khan losing to Phillips and Tackie, probably Magee too, from the WBU years.

Interesting that Paulie said that he felt Khan was better than Hatton. Perhaps it's because he really felt he'd beat Hatton and was whacked. Strange though, because I respect his judgement, especially on commentary.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Dinamita No but he might shut him out as convincingly if he shut him down in maul mode. Khan's style was perfect there though.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Dinamita said:


> Would you have Hatton stopping Kotelnik? :think
> 
> I'd have Khan losing to Phillips and Tackie, probably Magee too, from the WBU years.
> 
> Interesting that Paulie said that he felt Khan was better than Hatton. Perhaps it's because he really felt he'd beat Hatton and was whacked. Strange though, because I respect his judgement, especially on commentary.


Also, while I consider Ricky the far better fighter they're both completely different. Paulie may well have found Amir a lot more hassle because of his speed, which must be very impressive if yore on the receiving end, as it is just to watch.


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## Libertarian (Jun 2, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Also, while I consider Ricky the far better fighter they're both completely different. Paulie may well have found Amir a lot more hassle because of his speed, which must be very impressive if yore on the receiving end, as it is just to watch.


Perhaps.

I just see very little in Khan attribute-wise to place him above Hatton, that's all. Aside from speed.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@Dinamita Ricky's feet cutting the distance were quicker though and far more organised.


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

I must be alone in thinking it's a good rematch. It's not like Garcia was winning handily before putting Amir down, I had him losing the first two and the majority of 3 before the knockdown. It was an emphatic finish, but hardly decisive that Khan couldn't win a rematch.


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

TommyV said:


> I find it hard to take this post seriously after that comment to be honest. Did you watch the first two and a half rounds of this fight?


I genuinely can't stand some of the revisionist history and knee jerk reactions of fights fans, Tommy. All of a sudden Garcia isn't a slow handed, predictable fighter?

Amir walked into a shot because he got cocky when his flurries were landing. He started unleashing three, fours and fives and paid the price when he forgot the other guy could punch in between his own shots. The thing that WAS impressive was how Garcia kept calm and picked his shots between Khan's, and after the knockdown to get the stoppage. But until the KD in the third he was looking pretty out-classed.

There's no reason Khan can't beat Garcia in a rematch.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

dftaylor said:


> I must be alone in thinking it's a good rematch. It's not like Garcia was winning handily before putting Amir down, I had him losing the first two and the majority of 3 before the knockdown. It was an emphatic finish, but hardly decisive that Khan couldn't win a rematch.


Garcia is a notoriously slow starter whereas Khan is known for starting quickly. It was no real surprise to see Khan take the opening rounds. In fact, it might have been alarming to Freddie Roach and co at seeing how easily Garcia was walking through Khan's artillery. He didn't look noticeably buzzed at any time.

I suppose a rematch isn't totally out of the question, but I'd thoroughly expect Garcia to detonate at some point during the 12 rounds. Khan isn't going to reinvent himself. The man isn't a slick boxer, and he isn't hard to hit.



> I genuinely can't stand some of the revisionist history and knee jerk reactions of fights fans, Tommy. All of a sudden Garcia isn't a slow handed, predictable fighter?
> 
> Amir walked into a shot because he got cocky when his flurries were landing. He started unleashing three, fours and fives and paid the price when he forgot the other guy could punch in between his own shots. The thing that WAS impressive was how Garcia kept calm and picked his shots between Khan's, and after the knockdown to get the stoppage. But until the KD in the third he was looking pretty out-classed.
> 
> There's no reason Khan can't beat Garcia in a rematch.


I predicted a Garcia stoppage from the outset. Khan isn't as good as what the majority seem to think whereas Garcia doesn't get the credit he deserves. I felt this way long before the opening bell even rang. No knee-jerk reactions or revisionist history over here.


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

NoMas said:


> i disagree, at times *when he when fights his own fight*, he punches and moves brilliantly, he doenst punch off balance or anything like that... he hits and moves to the side and looks world class at times.. hes not the best at anything by any means, im not saying that, but he does look world class when hes on his job...


What you mean is when the opponent isn't throwing anything back? Khan, brave though he is, is appalling technically. He moves into punches, can't maintain range, steps into poor angles or goes back in straight lines. Against Garcia, he was pressing the action when he got clipped, because he sacrificed range with poor foot positioning.



> i just watched the fight again, and kenny bayless gave khan to many chances? a standing 8? i think he should of stopped it earlier to...


If you mean in the 4th round, it wasn't a standing 8. Khan's glove touched the canvas.


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## dftaylor (Jun 4, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Garcia is a notoriously slow starter whereas Khan is known for starting quickly. It was no real surprise to see Khan take the opening rounds. In fact, it might have been alarming to Freddie Roach and co at seeing how easily Garcia was walking through Khan's artillery. He didn't look noticeably buzzed at any time.


He was getting broken up pretty clearly. Not getting buzzed, but Khan isn't a puncher. He's never scored a clean KO. His best stoppage over Judah was more the result of Zab capitulating. Roach's gameplan was sound - deny Garcia the space and time to set up his offence. But he can't do much if Khan stands in the pocket after getting the right hand in. Garcia wasn't in the fight until he landed that shot in the third, he was looking very pedestrian.



> I suppose a rematch isn't totally out of the question, but I'd thoroughly expect Garcia to detonate at some point during the 12 rounds. Khan isn't going to reinvent himself. The man isn't a slick boxer, and he isn't hard to hit.


Neither is Garcia. Detonate? Garcia's no puncher either, Khan's just chinny.



> I predicted a Garcia stoppage from the outset. Khan isn't as good as what the majority seem to think whereas Garcia doesn't get the credit he deserves. I felt this way long before the opening bell even rang. No knee-jerk reactions or revisionist history over here.


I've given Garcia credit for what he did well: stayed composed and made his shots count. He's no banger, no great physical talent, but sound fundamentals and a great attitude in the ring. Picking him to win wasn't some great insight, it was a lucky guess when the styles favoured Amir considerably.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

> He was getting broken up pretty clearly. Not getting buzzed, but Khan isn't a puncher. He's never scored a clean KO. His best stoppage over Judah was more the result of Zab capitulating. Roach's gameplan was sound - deny Garcia the space and time to set up his offence. But he can't do much if Khan stands in the pocket after getting the right hand in. Garcia wasn't in the fight until he landed that shot in the third, he was looking very pedestrian.


Khan won the first two rounds fairly comfortably, but I'll disagree with you when you say Garcia wasn't in the fight until he landed the left hook. He went to the body well in the third, and was virtually giving as good as he was getting even before he detonated that left hook.



> Neither is Garcia. Detonate? Garcia's no puncher either, Khan's just chinny.


Yes, "detonate". Just like he detonated a left hook on Amir Khan's chin the other night. We don't reserve that word purely for the George Foremans of the world. He detonated a powerful left hook on Khan in the 3rd round of their fight, and I think he'd probably land something of similar velocity in a rematch.



> I've given Garcia credit for what he did well: stayed composed and made his shots count. He's no banger, no great physical talent, but sound fundamentals and a great attitude in the ring. Picking him to win wasn't some great insight, it was a lucky guess when the styles favoured Amir considerably.


Yeah, I never claim to be Nostradamus. You were just alluding to so-called knee-jerk reactions and revisionist history whilst quoting a poster I was having the discussion with. It seemed as if you were referring to me, in other words.

I wouldn't say I was prepared to put my mortgage on the idea, but I did have confidence in Garcia winning by stoppage. Against Morales, Garcia would wait until he sensed Morales was going to commit to initiating and then he'd try and time him with a counter hook. That seems to be his bread and butter. With Khan wading in like a fool, throwing his flurries, I just somehow envisioned him getting timed with a shot and being put on the canvas. You don't have to be a particularly big hitter to hurt Khan, especially if it's a shot he isn't going to see. I don't know what else to tell you. I genuinely thought Garcia would win by stoppage, albeit in the mid-late rounds.


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## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Dinamita said:


> I think Khan would be a slight favourite when the market opens, but Garcia would be hammered into something like 4/6 close to fight night.
> 
> There's always the retard/patriotic betting element with British fighters. I remember sitting on the roulette machine in my local betting shop whilst waiting for a few mates to go to the pub and some 'tard laid £100 on Hatton to knock Pacquiao out in the first round.
> 
> ...


yeah man, good post


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## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

TommyV said:


> Garcia can't beat Khan, .


:lol:

I know your post was much longer than this and I've just picked out one small bit of it, but I just had to :lol: at these words being strung together

Just for the record, I strongly disagree with you on Khan only beating himself etc, full credit to the winners of fights. I'm a big Khan fan but full credit to Danny Garcia. I expect Garcia to do the same in a rematch if it happens, and I'll be crediting him fully again, not saying that Khan beat himself because he is a superior talent.


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## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Fair enough. If you're going to be like that we're better off just agreeing to disagree.
> 
> Hope you enjoyed the fight. :thumbsup


I agree with you mate


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## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Garcia was in the fight all along, Khan was winning the rounds but it was not a masterclass and or easy, Khan doesn't dictate pace well, he is all over his opponent and very hyper-active. Garcia was not taking the rounds but his timing was improving as the fight progressed, and it was not a fluke, that left hook is his money punch and he was trying to time it from the beginning of the fight. 

To say Garcia is a better fighter than Khan is definitely more rational than saying the opposite, I agree with Addie. Ultimately, being 'better' is about who is the more effective, not who is the faster fighter. Khan is becoming a poor mans Hector Camacho but without the amazing chin, well it's far from amazing.

I'm gutted for Khan, I really like him.


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## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Man, Ricky Hatton was a very good fighter. It was hard to be sure of a victory with him but more often that not he could grind it out. The British public got bad nerves when Frank Bruno was fighting.
> 
> But with Khan I don't think there's ever been a fighter where whenever he's in with anything other than a complete featherfist you think 'there's a genuine chance he could get sparked'.
> 
> Peterson obviously doesn't have much in the way of a dig at all :yep


totally agree, I know we've discussed this a few times today Flea, but I just want to say again that I don't even want to see him fight again. In my mind, and I said this before last night's fight, he's guaranteed to be in a war every time he fights, and it's just too brutal a sport for that shit, it's been on my mind all day, I feel for the lad.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Teeto said:


> Garcia was in the fight all along, Khan was winning the rounds but it was not a masterclass and or easy, Khan doesn't dictate pace well, he is all over his opponent and very hyper-active. * Garcia was not taking the rounds but his timing was improving as the fight progressed*, and it was not a fluke,* that left hook is his money punch and he was trying to time it from the beginning of the fight. *
> 
> To say Garcia is a better fighter than Khan is definitely more rational than saying the opposite, I agree with Addie. *Ultimately, being 'better' is about who is the more effective, not who is the faster fighter.* Khan is becoming a poor mans Hector Camacho but without the amazing chin, well it's far from amazing.
> 
> I'm gutted for Khan, I really like him.


Yes...yes...and yes. :thumbsup


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

the problem with khan is he can't see his own shortfalls.

the peterson loss, fair enough ped's played a part, but that doesn't change how shit khan's inside game and footwork was. here he thinks he underestimated garcia and again is failing to appreciate how shit he fought.

the guy has next to no defence, fights completely immature and has some of the worst footwork i've seen at the top level.

I'd expect garcia, matthyse and marquez to all wipe khan out and if he stays in this division his time at the top will surely end. atleast at WW there's bailey and malignaggi he could rob a belt from.


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## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Pedderrs said:


> Yes...yes...and yes. :thumbsup


:good


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## Miguel2010 (Jun 5, 2012)

Id have the Hitman to lay Khan out now (current status).....Ricky's punch resistance might not be what it was, I bet he could take Khans worst and keep coming............More an more fights coming available for the Hitman if he does come back!


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## Macca L20 (Jun 3, 2012)

Meast said:


> Wonder what Garcia will do next, winner of the Alexander _vs_ Bailey maybe? Or go for Bradley.


Bradley would batter Garcia. I still don't rate him to be honest.


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## NoMas (Jun 7, 2012)

dftaylor said:


> What you mean is when the opponent isn't throwing anything back? Khan, brave though he is, is appalling technically. He moves into punches, can't maintain range, steps into poor angles or goes back in straight lines. Against Garcia, he was pressing the action when he got clipped, because he sacrificed range with poor foot positioning.
> 
> If you mean in the 4th round, it wasn't a standing 8. Khan's glove touched the canvas.


no im mean when he doesnt plant his feet and stand and trade with people... he could easily box fighters and stay out of close range and no mans land... he is a gifted boxer, you dont win world titles not being one... i just dont think he wants to, his ego wants to him to be a warrior... it will be interesting to see how he comes back, hes got to come back a new fighter, hes been exposed too many times now...

ive never been a fan of his, im simply saying hes not a shit fighter, he can defo comeback and win world titles again, with the right tuition from a trainer who gives him more of his time, he can easily make adjustments, many a fighter has sorted his footwork out and improved his power and balance... i think at times khan does show good footwork, hes already got blistering speed...

i dont think his gloved touched down either, i thought he gave him the count because the ropes 'kept him up' when in reality he bounced off them... bayless gave khan loads of opportunity, had that been garcia he woulda stopped it alot earlier...

atleast khan cant moan that the ref stopped it early... makes me laugh his camp complaining about garcia and the ref...


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## NoMas (Jun 7, 2012)

no way matty hatton is beating khan, even now, matthew is one of the most improved fighters of the last few years no doubt, i think hes shocked everyone, but i still think khan would stop him... lets not get carried away :nono


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Just watched the fight again. After round 1 Khan didn't really land anything of note aside from two headbutts. Garcia, in rounds 2 and 3, slipped and blocked an awful lot whilst moving backwards which goaded Khan into punching more off balance.

Garcia had actually dry ran the big shot a few times earlier by going to Khans body and then ducking under the return and clinching rather than throwing the hail mary shot.

the only thing Khan has superior to Garcia is speed. Power, technique, chin, durability, footwork, blocking, slipping, ring iq, timing Garcia looked miles ahead of Khan in all of those.

Round 2 when Khan thought he was on top he was wild, off balance and defenceless all the time hitting air or gloves.

Round 4 when Garcia thought he was on top, he was patient, mixing it up, walking amir down, picking his punches and ensuring they landed.

I'd say that anyone putting any money on Amir in a rematch is absolutely bonkers.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

He's not a gifted boxer!!! And Gene Fullmer won an actual World title so you don't have to a 'gifted boxer' to win one. He has alwas fought the way you don't want him to fight mate.



NoMas said:


> no im mean when he doesnt plant his feet and stand and trade with people... he could easily box fighters and stay out of close range and no mans land... he is a gifted boxer, you dont win world titles not being one... i just dont think he wants to, his ego wants to him to be a warrior... it will be interesting to see how he comes back, hes got to come back a new fighter, hes been exposed too many times now...
> 
> ive never been a fan of his, im simply saying hes not a shit fighter, he can defo comeback and win world titles again, with the right tuition from a trainer who gives him more of his time, he can easily make adjustments, many a fighter has sorted his footwork out and improved his power and balance... i think at times khan does show good footwork, hes already got blistering speed...
> 
> ...


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> He's not a gifted boxer!!! And Gene Fullmer won an actual World title so you don't have to a 'gifted boxer' to win one. He has alwas fought the way you don't want him to fight mate.


hell baldomir won a quartet of world titles without having a single boxing gift to his name :lol:


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## Meast (Jun 3, 2012)

lufcrazy said:


> Just watched the fight again. After round 1 Khan didn't really land anything of note aside from two headbutts. Garcia, in rounds 2 and 3, slipped and blocked an awful lot whilst moving backwards which goaded Khan into punching more off balance.
> 
> Garcia had actually dry ran the big shot a few times earlier by going to Khans body and then ducking under the return and clinching rather than throwing the hail mary shot.
> 
> ...


Have to admit, I watched it again earlier as well and saw the same. Khan looks to be landing with his incredibly fast hands but when you watch closely he didn't land much at all after the first.

Khan should have just stuck with the jab on Garcia's cut like he was doing at the start of the third.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

lufcrazy said:


> hell baldomir won a quartet of world titles without having a single boxing gift to his name :lol:


:lol: Sturdy though :yep


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## NoMas (Jun 7, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> He's not a gifted boxer!!! And Gene Fullmer won an actual World title so you don't have to a 'gifted boxer' to win one. He has alwas fought the way you don't want him to fight mate.


lol come on man, of course he is gifted, he won a silver medal to granted so did audley harrison but to say hes not gifted is crazy... hes won world titles in two divisions... hes not a ingemar johansson or fullmer... to say hes not gifted is ludicrous, im not a fan, i dont like him, but i give him credit, hes not shit... im done with the khan v garcia and haye chisora fiacso, ive had more than a enough of it... david haye is just rabititing on non stop on the bunces or rather rosentale show as it is atm lol


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

@NoMas I'm not saying he's shit! But he isn't a gifted boxer and even in the Olympics he was a whirlwind of fast hands NOT A BOXER/FENCER and he hasn't won titles in two divisions!

Ingo you say? The Olympic medalist who was DQ'd at the games for showing better evasive moment than Khan ever has? Not a good example I'm afraid


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

Meast said:


> Have to admit, I watched it again earlier as well and saw the same. Khan looks to be landing with his incredibly fast hands but when you watch closely he didn't land much at all after the first.
> 
> Khan should have just stuck with the jab on Garcia's cut like he was doing at the start of the third.


yeah garcia was marked up from the headbutts but khan was completely reckless after round 1 barely landing a flush punch and all the while garcia was landing overhead rights adn body shiots creating the false sense of security


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## Marvelous Marv (Jun 30, 2012)

I think what Flea is trying to say is Khan doesn't have much actual technical boxing skill or nous and to a large extent hides behind handspeed to cover up large deficiencies in numerous other areas. Which you can do when the handspeed is that extreme, against _most_ opponents.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

I dont think Oscar recent claim that Khan can still fight mayweather if he has two good wins on the belt is helping matters concerning Khan. he needs to forget Mayweather or anyone elite and focus on getting back to the top of his division beating the likes of Rios, Garcia, Alvarado, Matthysee, Olusegun etc and most of those guys can bang so it isn't going to be easy.


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## Luf (Jun 6, 2012)

physically khan is gifted with speed, but his power, chin, reflexes and footwork are not a gift.

technically speaking he isn't that gifted at all, certainly not on the level of ingo. he seeks to win by overwhelming, he doesn't set traps, he doesn't feint that much, he throws when off balance and too often he fights off heart rather than brain.

I think we all pretty much agree and the only difference is semantics.

khan is "good", he's just not "very good"

look at his division now, would anyone really put him in the top 3 there?would he be top 3 at ww? will he ever be top 3 again?

someone with his attributes should be a stick and move fighter because his chin can't survive any more than that hence the matchmaking.

the only banger he's beaten is maidana and I've been questioning his power for a while and have never been sold on it.


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## Indigo Pab (May 31, 2012)

Teeto said:


> Garcia was in the fight all along, Khan was winning the rounds but it was not a masterclass and or easy, Khan doesn't dictate pace well, he is all over his opponent and very hyper-active. Garcia was not taking the rounds but his timing was improving as the fight progressed, and it was not a fluke, that left hook is his money punch and he was trying to time it from the beginning of the fight.


I really am in agreement with this. I'm not sure if I alluded to it here(I definitely did somewhere though :think), but I really thought that the writing was on the wall to some degree in those early rounds. Khan was winning them relatively clearly, but not without a lot of discomfort in my eyes. Garcia in most of his fights tended to counter off his opponent's last punch, and I thought he was doing so with some success against Khan. Obviously he was being out-landed and perhaps even overwhelmed to an extent, but personally I think he landed his fair share of right hands in particular in the early going. Something which I don't think he was getting enough credit for from the commentators.

Khan was getting his combinations off and then lingering in range, and added to that wasn't getting his hands back up quickly enough after throwing. So he was getting off 3's and 4's but catching clean counters in return, and as Garcia's timing gradually improved he was able to throw in between Khan's blows as opposed to merely getting the last word in the exchanges, which evidently spelled the end for Khan. I must admit I didn't think Garcia would be able to do so(throw with Khan in combination), which is the main reason I picked Khan to take it. Full credit to the dude though, he proved me wrong on that one.


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## Teeto (May 31, 2012)

Pabby said:


> I really am in agreement with this. I'm not sure if I alluded to it here(I definitely did somewhere though :think), but I really thought that the writing was on the wall to some degree in those early rounds. Khan was winning them relatively clearly, but not without a lot of discomfort in my eyes. Garcia in most of his fights tended to counter off his opponent's last punch, and I thought he was doing so with some success against Khan. Obviously he was being out-landed and perhaps even overwhelmed to an extent, but personally I think he landed his fair share of right hands in particular in the early going. Something which I don't think he was getting enough credit for from the commentators.
> 
> Khan was getting his combinations off and then lingering in range, and added to that wasn't getting his hands back up quickly enough after throwing. So he was getting off 3's and 4's but catching clean counters in return, and as Garcia's timing gradually improved he was able to throw in between Khan's blows as opposed to merely getting the last word in the exchanges, which evidently spelled the end for Khan. I must admit I didn't think Garcia would be able to do so(throw with Khan in combination), which is the main reason I picked Khan to take it. Full credit to the dude though, he proved me wrong on that one.


great technical breakdown Pab, well said my man


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## Lilo (Jun 4, 2012)

Is this confirmed? :think 

Khan needs to fight with the fear he had against Kotelnik rather than the reckless abandon he had against Garcia.


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