# Why is it unpolular to believe Canelo will beat GGG?



## LiL Boosie (Feb 9, 2014)

I have a hard time understanding this...

Honestly I believe GGG & Canelo are similar levels...

Canelo has fought better opposition...


GGG has fought the lesser opposition but he has beem more decisive in his wins. Since boxeo has started there has always been a certain mystique with Power punchers. They become fan favs and seem to generate so much hype sometimes too much.

I go back just a few years ago. Danny vs Lucas. Danny had clearly beaten better opposition but Lucas KOd a few impressivly, it lead to many thinking Danny would duck or be easily KOd if they fought. Fans, media all thought Danny would lose badly, and he won a clear decision...

GGG is there to be hit, Canelo will land some vicous combos no doubt, how will ggg react? GGG will push Canelo like he never has how will Canelo handle the pressure? What Im getting at is it will be an ultra competitive bout not an easy GGG KO like many fanboys are claiming

I also beliece Canelo has no problem fighting ggg, I truely believe if Oscar tells Canelo that the fight will happen in Sep Canelo would have no problem. Its Oscar who is holding up tha fight. Oscar has a lot of confidence in Canelo but the ggg fight does worry him. It will be delayed, IMo until 2017, but it will happen


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Because GGG's fans are sensitive and don't like hearing anything bad about him.


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## Robney (Jun 15, 2012)

If you struggled with the likes of Lara and Trout, and many even say you lost those fights, then it's hard to imagine him doing well against the monster from a division above, who clearly has an iron jaw to boot.
It's why they want to drain him, just to hope Canelo can take him the distance that way and let the judges do the job they were paid off for.

GGG does everything better, has more power, a much higher punch output and weights the same at fightnight.
Not hard to imagine what would happen here.


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## LiL Boosie (Feb 9, 2014)

Robney said:


> If you struggled with the likes of Lara and Trout, and many even say you lost those fights, then it's hard to imagine him doing well against the monster from a division above, who clearly has an iron jaw to boot.
> It's why they want to drain him, just to hope Canelo can take him the distance that way and let the judges do the job they were paid off for.
> 
> GGG does everything better, has more power, a much higher punch output and weights the same at fightnight.
> Not hard to imagine what would happen here.


Canelo is faster
Better defense (doesnt get hit cleanly ad much as ggg)

GGG has more power

No one said Trout beat Canelo

GGG has done what he has done to, now lets be honest not that best of competition.

Wtf does destroying Wade prove?

Canelo could fight a weak mandatory and KO him also, but not get near the hype of ggg


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Hopefully, Golovkin gets credit for KO'ing Canelo then. I mean they're at the same level, right; therefore, should be a gigantic win.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

THE MW Title is a national treasure. It shouldn't be in catchweights. Everyone just wants the fight to happen.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Canelo should fight Golovkin if he wants to craft a legacy, and I won't count the victory if it's not at the full 160lbs 

However I agree, this is a 50-50 fight. I don't think there is a fighter in history ranked in the p4p top t who has fought such woeful opposition


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

It doesn't look good when he's running like hell from the best of the division


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

LiL Boosie said:


> Wtf does destroying Wade prove?


It proves that Canelo (and BJS, and Jacobs, and...) won't get in the ring with him. And while Cluck-nelo holds the belt hostage, the fans get screwed because team Golovkin can't force better fights to happen.

Simple, really.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Level of opposition has a lot to do with it. Golovkin looks more complete with the (in)famous eye test, but Lemiux, Geale, and Murray aren't Lara, Cotto, and Floyd. Canelo might look just as good if he only fought guys like Kirkland, Angulo, Lopez. Not to suggest their weaknesses are the same. GGG is prone to occasional counters and smothers, while Canelo struggles with movement and a solid jab. 

But what it comes down to in terms of popular opinion is largely the picture of the devastating puncher being ducked against the guy who looks beatable every other fight and gets the benefit of the doubt with the judges. This fight has Garcia vs. Matthysse written all over it. Golovkin is well schooled as well as powerful so it's hard to pick against him, but he's never seen anyone like Canelo before, and his only option is to press Canelo who is a beastly counter-combination-puncher. I could easily see Canelo beat GGG with things he's never had to think about before just as easily as I can see Golovkin slowly picking his spots and punching with Canelo to put him in on the defensive.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Because of he's white


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Level of opposition has a lot to do with it. Golovkin looks more complete with the (in)famous eye test, but Lemiux, Geale, and Murray aren't Lara, Cotto, and Floyd. Canelo might look just as good if he only fought guys like Kirkland, Angulo, Lopez. Not to suggest their weaknesses are the same. GGG is prone to occasional counters and smothers, while Canelo struggles with movement and a solid jab.
> 
> But what it comes down to in terms of popular opinion is largely the picture of the devastating puncher being ducked against the guy who looks beatable every other fight and gets the benefit of the doubt with the judges. This fight has Garcia vs. Matthysse written all over it. Golovkin is well schooled as well as powerful so it's hard to pick against him, but he's never seen anyone like Canelo before, and his only option is to press Canelo who is a beastly counter-combination-puncher. I could easily see Canelo beat GGG with things he's never had to think about before just as easily as I can see Golovkin slowly picking his spots and punching with Canelo to put him in on the defensive.


3G is a bit more skilled than Matthysse IMO but everything else is so deliciously on the money. This is the sort of opponent that on the surface actually falls into the desirable category for Canelo. Have always said though that while styles may make fights, levels ultimately trump styles. Golovkin is going to have to be the real deal.


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## Mr Magic (Jun 3, 2013)

Because neither Canelo nor his team think they can.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Level of opposition has a lot to do with it. Golovkin looks more complete with the (in)famous eye test, but Lemiux, Geale, and Murray aren't Lara, Cotto, and Floyd. Canelo might look just as good if he only fought guys like Kirkland, Angulo, Lopez. Not to suggest their weaknesses are the same. GGG is prone to occasional counters and smothers, while Canelo struggles with movement and a solid jab.
> 
> But what it comes down to in terms of popular opinion is largely the picture of the devastating puncher being ducked against the guy who looks beatable every other fight and gets the benefit of the doubt with the judges. This fight has Garcia vs. Matthysse written all over it. Golovkin is well schooled as well as powerful so it's hard to pick against him, but he's never seen anyone like Canelo before, and his only option is to press Canelo who is a beastly counter-combination-puncher. I could easily see Canelo beat GGG with things he's never had to think about before just as easily as I can see Golovkin slowly picking his spots and punching with Canelo to put him in on the defensive.


Except he has seen something like Canelo before, he's seen Canelo himself in sparring and Canelo doesn't want any. That tells you how confident Canelo is after already feeling what GGG has. If Canelo felt he could win that fight it would have happened already, he obviously felt those punches and doesn't back himself.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Except he has seen something like Canelo before, he's seen Canelo himself in sparring and Canelo doesn't want any. That tells you how confident Canelo is after already feeling what GGG has. If Canelo felt he could win that fight it would have happened already, he obviously felt those punches and doesn't back himself.


That's just sparring though. I really doubt either came away with such an impression that years later it would affect their willingness to fight. GGG allowed Canelo the mandatory, so if and when Canelo gets past Khan we can start gauging whether he truly has any fear or not, thus far in his career he hasn't shown any.



Hands of Iron said:


> 3G is a bit more skilled than Matthysse IMO but everything else is so deliciously on the money. This is the sort of opponent that on the surface actually falls into the desirable category for Canelo. Have always said though that while styles may make fights, levels ultimately trump styles. Golovkin is going to have to be the real deal.


Agreed on all points.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> That's just sparring though. I really doubt either came away with such an impression that years later it would affect their willingness to fight. GGG allowed Canelo the mandatory, so if and when Canelo gets past Khan we can start gauging whether he truly has any fear or not, thus far in his career he hasn't shown any.
> 
> Agreed on all points.


But you know as well as I do when you spar someone you assess how you'd do if you fought, it's human nature. the fact the reports at the time show Canelo to have buzzed up and he has been so hesitant to take this fight say it all. I'm a Canelo fan btw, but let's be real we all know nobody at 160 beats GGG right now.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> 3G is a bit more skilled than Matthysse IMO but everything else is so deliciously on the money. This is the sort of opponent that on the surface actually falls into the desirable category for Canelo. Have always said though that while styles may make fights, levels ultimately trump styles. Golovkin is going to have to be the real deal.


Golovkin fights at a way higher pace than Lucas despite being 2 divisions north.
Canelo counters well which should help him but Golovkin's workrate should be able to easily overcome Saul's counter ability as Alvarez rests on the ropes a lot.


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## stevebhoy87 (Jun 4, 2013)

People are fully entitled to back Canelo if they wish, he does have some advantages in the fight, better defence, slightly better combination puncher, and has fought the better level of competition.

I find the Matthysse comparisons with GGG a lazy one though that has no basis in fact. The only comparison is they hit hard. Golovkin is skilled as hell, he has an outstanding jab, brilliant footwork, judgement of distance, punch placement, timing etc. He is a so much more complete than Lucas ever was that I just can't see any basis for comparison.

Personally I can't see past GGG in this fight, not because of the power, but his jab, footwork and workrate I just see as being far to much for Canelo. I think Canelo will give him his best fight, win some rounds with flashy combinations and countering, but GGG will wear him down, though not sure he'd stop him. Let's be frank Canelo showing little interest at the moment in making the fight, though I do believe he will fight him within the next 13 months, there clearly a reason there hesitant to make this fight, they realise just how good Golovkin is, they know he's for real. If Canelo wins this fight he will get mad props from me.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

dyna said:


> Golovkin fights at a way higher pace than Lucas despite being 2 divisions north.
> Canelo counters well which should help him but Golovkin's workrate should be able to easily overcome Saul's counter ability as Alvarez rests on the ropes a lot.


I'd actually be pretty disappointed if Golovkin doesn't stop him, tbh.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

JamieC said:


> But you know as well as I do when you spar someone you assess how you'd do if you fought, it's human nature. the fact the reports at the time show Canelo to have buzzed up and he has been so hesitant to take this fight say it all. I'm a Canelo fan btw, but let's be real we all know nobody at 160 beats GGG right now.


I expect he'd consider himself better now though. I'd favor Golovkin but like I said, far too many people auto-pick lovable punchers, Canelo has a real chance here based on styles. We'll see post-Khan how things shape up.


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

I think Canelo does match-up fairly well in this fight. However, I just cannot see him, with his low output and relatively low stamina, being able to hang with Golovkin for the whole 12. He might just about last the distance, but I'd bank on a late stoppage for GGG


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## Antsu (Jun 4, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Canelo should fight Golovkin if he wants to craft a legacy, and I won't count the victory if it's not at the full 160lbs
> 
> However I agree, this is a 50-50 fight. I don't think there is a fighter in history ranked in the p4p top t who has fought such woeful opposition


Im sure he will be devastated if you dont count his victory


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## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Because GGG's fans are sensitive and don't like hearing anything bad about him.


Because Golovkin would punch that midget ginger into next month.


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## Strike (Jun 4, 2012)

stevebhoy87 said:


> People are fully entitled to back Canelo if they wish, he does have some advantages in the fight, better defence, slightly better combination puncher, and has fought the better level of competition.
> 
> I find the Matthysse comparisons with GGG a lazy one though that has no basis in fact. The only comparison is they hit hard. Golovkin is skilled as hell, he has an outstanding jab, brilliant footwork, judgement of distance, punch placement, timing etc. He is a so much more complete than Lucas ever was that I just can't see any basis for comparison.
> 
> Personally I can't see past GGG in this fight, not because of the power, but his jab, footwork and workrate I just see as being far to much for Canelo. I think Canelo will give him his best fight, win some rounds with flashy combinations and countering, but GGG will wear him down, though not sure he'd stop him. Let's be frank Canelo showing little interest at the moment in making the fight, though I do believe he will fight him within the next 13 months, there clearly a reason there hesitant to make this fight, they realise just how good Golovkin is, they know he's for real. If Canelo wins this fight he will get mad props from me.


That saved me having to write much. Perfect analysis.


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## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

I don't think it's that unpopular. Canelo will clearly be the toughest fight GGG has ever had and I won't be entirely surprised if he beat him. His defence is ace and GGG won't have the same success on him that he's had against others.


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## VinoVeritas (Nov 14, 2015)

JamieC said:


> Except he has seen something like Canelo before, he's seen Canelo himself in sparring and Canelo doesn't want any. That tells you how confident Canelo is after already feeling what GGG has. If Canelo felt he could win that fight it would have happened already, he obviously felt those punches and doesn't back himself.


This. Had they not previously sparred we might've already seen this fight. Canelo knows if GGG hits him like he did in that sparring session he won't see the final bell.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

pretty simple to me. 

GGG is more than just a big puncher, This aint fuckin matthysse, GGG is technically sound and legitimately very very skilled, GGG is not a 1 trick pony here.. Not only is Canelo outgunned at any range they go to, he also can't jab with GGG at all. He can't trade with GGG. His feet are way too slow to attempt to outbox and counter punch GGG. Ultimately he would end up banging with GGG and I can't see him beating Golovin in any way.

Canelo's lack of power will totally hinder him in this bout. It's very deceptive. Canelo looks like he hits hard as fuck when he's knocking out Kirkland and when he will KO Khan, but his power really fails at the elite level and he couldn't really dent smaller guys in Cotto and Floyd, guys who are natural welterweights.

GGG will be able to trade with Canelo with no fear of the counters, just like he did with Geale and many others.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Except he has seen something like Canelo before, he's seen Canelo himself in sparring and Canelo doesn't want any. That tells you how confident Canelo is after already feeling what GGG has. If Canelo felt he could win that fight it would have happened already, he obviously felt those punches and doesn't back himself.


Such bullshit.

Canelo has called him out more than once and told him he'll take the fight at 160lb. They've agreed to negotiate after their next fights, neither of them have ducked each other, that's just boxing fans being idiots as usual and genuinely believing that a Mexican kid like Canelo is genuinely scared of another fighter his same size:rofl The same kid who went out of his way to fight guys who everyone said he would avoid.

Your logic makes no sense anyway, we all know Canelo doesn't just click his fingers and fights who he wants. He isn't a promoter, it's GBP's job to determine when that fight makes the most sense. While GGG is beating up bums in front of a 100k TV audience, Canelo is making legit money in a PPV fight, further building his star power and putting himself in a much better negotiating position. It makes sense that the fight hasn't happened yet, people are only just starting to know who the fuck Golovkin is.

That fucking sparring session as well, sounded to me like a green Canelo more than held his own with GGG.

The dude hasn't fought a fighter above B level, it's a fucking joke atsch


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> pretty simple to me.
> 
> GGG is more than just a big puncher, This aint fuckin matthysse, GGG is technically sound and legitimately very very skilled, GGG is not a 1 trick pony here.. Not only is Canelo outgunned at any range they go to, he also can't jab with GGG at all. He can't trade with GGG. His feet are way too slow to attempt to outbox and counter punch GGG. Ultimately he would end up banging with GGG and I can't see him beating Golovin in any way.
> 
> ...


What shite that is.

Both Cotto and Maywaether did everything they could to avoid getting hit with those punches that apparently pack little power. Every single shot landed on Cotto stopped him dead in his tracks and probably has something to do with why he fought on his bike for the entire round. Mayweather on the other hand, said Canelo hits harder than anyone he has faced.

GGG has to worry about hitting Canelo cleanly himself, he's used to B level guys with no mobility, lets see how he does with a proper defense and counter punching threat. I'd like to see how he does on the inside as well when Canelo rips his body up.

No doubt GGG has the more single punch power, but making out that Canelo's power would be ineffective is just silly, no on walks through Canelo's punches, he's no Paulie Malignaggi.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

TFG said:


> Such bullshit.
> 
> Canelo has called him out more than once and told him he'll take the fight at 160lb. They've agreed to negotiate after their next fights, neither of them have ducked each other, that's just boxing fans being idiots as usual and genuinely believing that a Mexican kid like Canelo is genuinely scared of another fighter his same size:rofl The same kid who went out of his way to fight guys who everyone said he would avoid.
> 
> ...


Links to those claims?

Weird that, because when he demanded Floyd he got him, when he wanted Lara he got him. But now he's powerless to fight GGG

Umm no it didn't sound like that at all, Canelo had to walk it off by all accounts and if that hadn't had an effect on him he'd be fighting GGG next not Khan.

GGG has beaten what, 4 or 5 Ring top 5 middles and unified with another champion? Hopefully one day soon we see him drag up a chinny welterweight contender.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

TFG said:


> Both Cotto and Maywaether did everything they could to avoid getting hit with those punches that apparently pack little power. Every single shot landed on Cotto stopped him dead in his tracks and probably has something to do with why he fought on his bike for the entire round. Mayweather on the other hand, said Canelo hits harder than anyone he has faced.


The point is that both Cotto and Floyd got tagged with Canelo's absolute best shots and neither of them were dented. You are grossly exaggerating about Cotto getting "stopped in his tracks" by Canelo, he would get stunned briefely but then be completely fine, never in any true danger of getting seriously rocked. Canelo also always has a huge size advantage and held these advantages against smaller men in cotto and floyd, and couldnt seriously hurt either of them. This doesn't bode well for Canelo's power that he couldn't dent Cotto, a guy who has been hurt and floored MANY times by smaller men.


TFG said:


> GGG has to worry about hitting Canelo cleanly himself, he's used to B level guys with no mobility, lets see how he does with a proper defense and counter punching threat. I'd like to see how he does on the inside as well when Canelo rips his body up.


Of course he does. Canelo has great head movement. But Canelo has cement feet, he can't stick and move and he can only let his hands go with combos when he has an immobile target. GGG will outbox Canelo on the outside with is better footwork, better technical skills and better jab. Canelo will get knocked out by GGG.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Links to those claims?
> 
> Weird that, because when he demanded Floyd he got him, when he wanted Lara he got him. But now he's powerless to fight GGG
> 
> ...


Confirmed by Eric Gomez of GBP



> However things have changed. Per TheSweetScience, Canelo has dropped the 155 catchweight demand according to Golden Boy Promotions executive Eric Gomez. Even though Canelo usually rehydrates to 170+ lbs on fight night, the only thing he would've gained from fighting GGG at a 155 lb catchweight would be a dehydrated and weakened GGG-something that would cheapen a possible Canelo victory in the eyes of most fight fans


How did it sound then? Canelo was a kid and his reaction was "I didn't feel any power". Yeah sounds like he is quaking in his boots. Walk what off, what are you talking about? I have no idea what you are basing it on. The pictures show barely any damage, the written accounts talk of an even contest and there's plenty of people on youtube who claim Canelo actually got the better of the sparring session based on accounts of people who were actually there. It's fucking sparring, stop pretending like you know what happened and stop making stuff up about that being the reason they haven't fought, that's like something from Sherdog.

Why would he fight GGG next when he can him make millions on PPV? They've already agreed to negotiate after their fights. Who has GGG beat that is above a B level fighter, Macklin might be a highly rated middleweight, but he's still shit.

A fight with Amir Khan on PPV > Dominic Wade, no matter what weight. It's not even close in terms of which fights does the best for your carear.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> The point is that both Cotto and Floyd got tagged with Canelo's absolute best shots and neither of them were dented. You are grossly exaggerating about Cotto getting "stopped in his tracks" by Canelo, he would get stunned briefely but then be completely fine, never in any true danger of getting seriously rocked. Canelo also always has a huge size advantage and held these advantages against smaller men in cotto and floyd, and couldnt seriously hurt either of them. This doesn't bode well for Canelo's power that he couldn't dent Cotto, a guy who has been hurt and floored MANY times by smaller men.
> 
> Of course he does. Canelo has great head movement. But Canelo has cement feet, he can't stick and move and he can only let his hands go with combos when he has an immobile target. GGG will outbox Canelo on the outside with is better footwork, better technical skills and better jab. Canelo will get knocked out by GGG.


Boxing doesn't work like, there's hundreds of examples that include boxers with poor chins surviving against bigger punchers. The style of the fight is more important than the punching power, getting caught moving into a shot you don't see is one of the most popular ways you get knocked the fuck out. If your whole mentality is to move backwards away from the power then you take away a lot of that danger. That's why Cotto got dropped against Pacquiao when he went at him at the beginning of the fight, then stayed on his feet from a bigger onslaught after that because he was moving away and focusing on defense, like he was against Canelo. And yes, Cotto was literally stopped in his tracks whenver he exchanged with Canelo, he was the one who would either freeze or retreat backwards and was shook more than once.

Floyd has a great chin and has taken the power of many big punchers, in his Maidana press conference, he said he still feels the shots Canelo hit him with today, but I suppose that doesn't matter because he never did the stanky leg? We've seen GGG backed up and bothered by the punching talent of a guy like Munroe, so don't sit here and tell me is just going to walk through clean counter uppercuts from Canelo.

Is Wlad not really a big puncher? I mean he hit chinny CW David Haye square on the chin plenty of times and Haye didn't flinch.


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## One to watch (Jun 5, 2013)

I think their both quality operators and top 10 P4P fighters.

Canelo can have success with combination punching and countering v ggg.but he needs to plant his feet or back him up because otherwise golovkin will run away on points with more activity and his accurate jab.

Great fight.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

TFG said:


> Confirmed by Eric Gomez of GBP
> 
> How did it sound then? Canelo was a kid and his reaction was "I didn't feel any power". Yeah sounds like he is quaking in his boots. Walk what off, what are you talking about? I have no idea what you are basing it on. The pictures show barely any damage, the written accounts talk of an even contest and there's plenty of people on youtube who claim Canelo actually got the better of the sparring session based on accounts of people who were actually there. It's fucking sparring, stop pretending like you know what happened and stop making stuff up about that being the reason they haven't fought, that's like something from Sherdog.
> 
> ...


These are going to be some simple rebuttals.

A link from 5 days ago where Team Canelo insist on a catchweight : http://www.boxingnews24.com/2016/04/canelos-promoter-says-golovkin-needs-agree-catch-weight/

Here's some excerpts from Doug Fischer's contemporary RBR of their sparring:

"Golovkin didn't jab much, but he landed it whenever he let it go. Alvarez began to look for ways to counter his antagonist in the final minute and scored with a sweet right cross followed by a hook that shook Golovkin down to his shoes. *The Kazakh just smiled at him, though*"

"Alvarez followed Golovkin during the final minute but walked into a hard left hook that appeared to rock him with 10 seconds remaining.* Alvarez didn't return to his corner after the bell but instead tried to shake out his right leg, which immediately stiffened on impact of Golovkin's hook*"

"The kid showed guts but he didn't merit a single "bien" from Reynoso in the third round. He didn't hear it until two and half minutes into the fourth round, when he let loose with a blazing five-punch combination. Golovkin dodged or parried most of the shots"

If you're having to shake your leg off at the end of a round of sparring rather than go back to your corner, you've had a bad fucking spar.

You're acting like you've never been beat up in sparring before, cast your mind back to when it's happened and how you felt when you had to go in with that guy again, apprehensive right? It's human nature. Now magnify that as it would be on the worlds' biggest stage with your reputation on the line.

If you are so confident in Canelo's willingness to take this fight I imagine we will have this wrapped up for 160 by September, right?


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## onourway (May 19, 2013)

Canelo just doesn't bring a style that is going to trouble Golovkin. 

Think most people agree that a really good mover with a brilliant jab and can spoil up close is the sort of style that will beat Golovkin. Basically Andre Ward represents the best chance.

It's reasonable to say that Golovkin could go out, pressure him and knock him out. But it's also reasonable to say Golovkin could come out behind the jab and outbox him for 12 rounds. I can't see a particular advantage that Canelo holds which will see him win.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Level of opposition has a lot to do with it. Golovkin looks more complete with the (in)famous eye test, but Lemiux, Geale, and Murray aren't Lara, Cotto, and Floyd. Canelo might look just as good if he only fought guys like Kirkland, Angulo, Lopez. Not to suggest their weaknesses are the same. GGG is prone to occasional counters and smothers, while Canelo struggles with movement and a solid jab.
> 
> But what it comes down to in terms of popular opinion is largely the picture of the devastating puncher being ducked against the guy who looks beatable every other fight and gets the benefit of the doubt with the judges. This fight has Garcia vs. Matthysse written all over it. Golovkin is well schooled as well as powerful so it's hard to pick against him, but he's never seen anyone like Canelo before, and his only option is to press Canelo who is a beastly counter-combination-puncher. I could easily see Canelo beat GGG with things he's never had to think about before just as easily as I can see Golovkin slowly picking his spots and punching with Canelo to put him in on the defensive.


yeah my friend said something funny to me 2 years ago. He said Cotto could look just like GGG if he fought the same level of opponents. That's why we saw him look like a monster vs Delvin Rodriguez. I laughed at his comment, but then gave him credit after Cotto knocked out Geale just as dominantly as GGG did. I know there was a catchweight involved, but Cotto looked just as devastating and more skilled imo than GGG did.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

And yall are tripping thinking Canelo is scared from their sparring session. Canelo was 20 years old at the time and who's previous fight was against Matthew Hatton. The fight was contracted at 150lbs. I'm sure Canelo's confidence in himself has grown immensely since then if he had any doubts


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah my friend said something funny to me 2 years ago. He said Cotto could look just like GGG if he fought the same level of opponents. That's why we saw him look like a monster vs Delvin Rodriguez. I laughed at his comment, but then gave him credit after Cotto knocked out Geale just as dominantly as GGG did. I know there was a catchweight involved, but Cotto looked just as devastating and more skilled imo than GGG did.


I like Cotto, but Lemieux would've knocked him out so no.


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## LiL Boosie (Feb 9, 2014)

I also believe Canelo is a lot quicker here. He would beat ggg to the punch more often then not, butsing ggg up with power shots as Ggg comes in.

For those who question Canelos power cmon. Canelo does not have one punch power but he does hit hard thats a given, hard enough to earn your respect. 

Its a pick em fight IMO thats all I am saying here.

Not comparing ggg & lucas style, just it reminds me a lot of Garcia/Matthysse on how things are playing out


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## LiL Boosie (Feb 9, 2014)

bballchump11 said:


> And yall are tripping thinking Canelo is scared from their sparring session. Canelo was 20 years old at the time and who's previous fight was against Matthew Hatton. The fight was contracted at 150lbs. I'm sure Canelo's confidence in himself has grown immensely since then if he had any doubts


Exactly. Canelo was 20 & did ok. He is 5 years older and gained much experience against top competition


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## One to watch (Jun 5, 2013)

So fucking bored of hearing about world class fighters 'ducking'.

At this level they are highly unlikely to duck anybody,their promoters,tv network or managers may think differently but fighters want to fight and fight the best they can.

Every day I read about fighter A ducking fighter B and then that will be countered by another poster who produces some thin evidence to the contrary.its all a show to the press and fans,propaganda.


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## LiL Boosie (Feb 9, 2014)

I got a question, for those saying ggg will easily beat Canelo...
How many of you guys also picked Lucas to KO Danny easily?

I was one of the few who picked Danny, who had clearly been a very good boxer and beaten the better opposition then lucas had yet was given no chance to win


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)




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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

I dont know, I just don't see a way Canelo can win. I don't see Canelo outboxing him, I don't see Canelo KOing him, I don't see him outworking GGG either.. GGG has the edge in basically every category aside from speed and defensive head movement.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

LiL Boosie said:


> I got a question, for those saying ggg will easily beat Canelo...
> How many of you guys also picked Lucas to KO Danny easily?
> 
> I was one of the few who picked Danny, who had clearly been a very good boxer and beaten the better opposition then lucas had yet was given no chance to win


Different situations.


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## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

It will happen in a couple years. When It won't even matter.


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## GlassJaw (Jun 8, 2013)

I don't think it's out of the question, it just seems Canelo doesn't want to fight him or wants every advantage he can get by saying he will only fight him at caneloweight


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## AzarZ (Dec 17, 2013)

It's because the media and fans are force feeding the 97k narrative and ramming it down people's throats.

As for GGGs invincibility it stems more from them wanting to believe that's the case. I'm sure they're worried. Deep down they know 97k is a hypejob and isn't what they made him out to be, hence the constant defending of 97k and slandering of Ward during that notorious duck. They don't want to even think of a reality whereby 97k is exposed as the fraud he is by Canelo. As for that whole Ward saga has proven, GGG can't lose, it's inconceivable for them, this white hype must not die under any circumstances. He must be preserved at all costs. That's why you saw a network go to such bizarre lengths to put 97k in witness protection and force Ward to move up. They weren't entertaining that shit at any cost.

I'm seriously sick of this fraud already. Stop with the bs and stop ducking Canelo, accept A-side demands, make 155lb and you get the fight. It's not that fucking hard. Otherwise stfu and continue your career of beating on Americas homeless.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Take that shit to ESB


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## One to watch (Jun 5, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Take that shit to ESB


This.

'97k' is just embarassing.boxing fans care about entertainment not PPV figures.give me ggg over floyd any day of the week.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

One to watch said:


> This.
> 
> '97k' is just embarassing.boxing fans care about entertainment not PPV figures.give me ggg over floyd any day of the week.


Bringing race into it as well when he's mixed race anyway shows the desperation to discredit him for no good reason. By all means say Canelo beats him or whatever but that post is text-based ebola


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

To anyone who claims duck, do you have any evidence before making that claim? Either side?


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Take that shit to ESB


He has a point, what difference will it make? Golovkin is under 160 regularly anyways. Adjust your damned diet and make the weight. Apparently Golovkin has said hed even fight at 154 anyways, so why not 155?

PS I'm a Golovkin fan and I could take or leave Canelo


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

turbotime said:


> He has a point, what difference will it make? Golovkin is under 160 regularly anyways. Adjust your damned diet and make the weight. Apparently Golovkin has said hed even fight at 154 anyways, so why not 155?
> 
> PS I'm a Golovkin fan and I could take or leave Canelo


Why should he for a middleweight title he's mandatory for? It's a ridiculous demand and an unnecessary risk. For Floyd it made sense as Floyd wasn't a middleweight champion and the exposure and money made sense plus that was some time ago, I wouldn't take the risk at 34 against somebody that will outweigh me on the night anyway


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Eoghan said:


> To anyone who claims duck, do you have any evidence before making that claim? Either side?


It's not in either of their nature to duck, I think Team Canelo are apprehensive but I think the fight will happen, he's taken tough fights he didn't have to before. That said I hope it's at 160


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

JamieC said:


> It's not in either of their nature to duck, I think Team Canelo are apprehensive but I think the fight will happen, he's taken tough fights he didn't have to before. That said I hope it's at 160


Exactly, it's not like having one voluntary fight before facing your mandatory is ducking, even if that voluntary is Khan at middleweight. It's not in either's best interests to avoid this fight, what other fight is anywhere near as big as this? 
That said, I want this to happen sooner rather than later, and Canelo does my head in when he says he's not a fully-sized middleweight, but I won't say either has ducked until they throw their belts in the bin


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Why should he for a middleweight title he's mandatory for? It's a ridiculous demand and an unnecessary risk. For Floyd it made sense as Floyd wasn't a middleweight champion and the exposure and money made sense plus that was some time ago, I wouldn't take the risk at 34 against somebody that will outweigh me on the night anyway


155 is still middleweight FFS. If Golovkin doesnt like it he can kick rocks really and pay sanctioning fees for belts that mean fuck all anymore.

Floyd has absolutely nothing to do with this and he has conceded to many demands in the past himself.


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## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

Those last pounds are the hardest though. I wouldn't mind a catchweight if it's like 158 or so, but who knows how he'd look if he had to drop a few extra pounds, no matter what he says. This fight doesn't need a catchweight, neither are undersized massively at the weight, but for Canelo to demand 155 is excessive IMO


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Canelo's bitch ass can come at 155lbs if he feels he's comfortable there, but GGG shouldn't have to.

Fact of the matter is, Canelo wants all the advantages he can, cus he knows he's up for a serious ass whooping against Triple G. I'd say GGG should tell Canelo to fuck off if he still insists on the catchweight, and hopefully he gets stripped of the WBC AND Lineal belt (won't happen but would be nice) and then be made to look like a bitch and hopefully have the Mexican fans turn on his bitch ass.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

turbotime said:


> 155 is still middleweight FFS. If Golovkin doesnt like it he can kick rocks really and pay sanctioning fees for belts that mean fuck all anymore.
> 
> Floyd has absolutely nothing to do with this and he has conceded to many demands in the past himself.


It's still middleweight but he's not obligated to try and lose 5lbs for a shot he's already earnt at 160, so why should he? The belts won't mean fuck all, he will be closer to undisputed champion like he should be already and everybody would know he got it as nobody had the balls to step up. That said Canelo has balls and will likely take the fight, but I hope he does it at 160 so it's the best of both fighters.

Well, GGG offered to meet Floyd at 154 but that made sense, drying yourself out when you don't need to is insane.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

JamieC said:


> It's still middleweight but he's not obligated to try and lose 5lbs for a shot he's already earnt at 160, so why should he? The belts won't mean fuck all, he will be closer to undisputed champion like he should be already and everybody would know he got it as nobody had the balls to step up. That said Canelo has balls and will likely take the fight, but I hope he does it at 160 so it's the best of both fighters.
> 
> Well, GGG offered to meet Floyd at 154 but that made sense, drying yourself out when you don't need to is insane.


Well Golovkin was pretty much a nobody at that point anyways in regards to a Floyd fight and ultimately Floyd was looking at the Pacquiao fight to end out his career.

As for Canelo its a bitch move but if golovkin really wanted to air out his bitchiness he can call the bluff and say fine 155 it is, come in a pound overweight, pay a fine, knock Canelo out and walk off with millions and millions as a payday.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

JamieC said:


> These are going to be some simple rebuttals.
> 
> A link from 5 days ago where Team Canelo insist on a catchweight : http://www.boxingnews24.com/2016/04/canelos-promoter-says-golovkin-needs-agree-catch-weight/
> 
> ...


Goldenboy are probably going to try and get the catchweight, that's what they do, I imagine they will negotiate at about 158. Golovkin is the corward if he doesn't accept that. Canelo personally said he would fight at 160, but he doesn't decide who he fights, GBP do. I have a feeling he will protest and go with 158 at minimum, as he has gotten his way before and shown that he cares what people think of him.

I think your argument is piss poor mate, even Fischer who wrote that article doesn't say it was a bad sparring session. It was a 20 year old kid going against a very experienced and powerful fighter and fought with him evenely, even those excerpts show that. *"Shook GGG down to his shoes". *Getting rocked in sparring isn't the end of the world and that's just Fischer's interpretation of it, there's other people who've given an account of what happened and mentioned nothing about. No one knows how hurt he was.

As for the sparring thing, I disagree again. To say that Canelo will be holding on this image of him getting buzzed in a back and forth sparring session as an inexperienced kid is just ridiculous, if he is holding on to it, then it's more likely revenge is his motive. Canelo is tough as hell, you not think he's had his fair share of beatings in sparring? Me and you might be scared after getting beat in sparring but these pros are pros for a reason. Groves got knocked down by Froch in sparring, it didn't stop him wanting that fight.

I doubt Canelo even looks at himself as the same fighter, he has improved so much since the Matthew Hatton fights it's not even worth comparing. If anything, he has probably gained confidence from the fact that at 20 year old he was able to spar evenly with GGG and land all of his best shots. He's much better now and got way more tools.


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## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

Because if it was popular one of you guys would have started a RBR thread for GGG's fight yesterday


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

TFG said:


> Goldenboy are probably going to try and get the catchweight, that's what they do, I imagine they will negotiate at about 158. Golovkin is the corward if he doesn't accept that. Canelo personally said he would fight at 160, but he doesn't decide who he fights, GBP do. I have a feeling he will protest and go with 158 at minimum, as he has gotten his way before and shown that he cares what people think of him.
> 
> I think your argument is piss poor mate, even Fischer who wrote that article doesn't say it was a bad sparring session. It was a 20 year old kid going against a very experienced and powerful fighter and fought with him evenely, even those excerpts show that. *"Shook GGG down to his shoes". *Getting rocked in sparring isn't the end of the world and that's just Fischer's interpretation of it, there's other people who've given an account of what happened and mentioned nothing about. No one knows how hurt he was.
> 
> ...


GGG is a coward for not fighting at the championship weight when there is no obligation to fight lower than that? It's not a voluntary, he is mandated to fight for the title at 160, why would he be a coward for not giving that up if he doesn't have to?

The very nice line was "The Kazakh just smiled back" whereas Canelo was shaking out his legs after they'd gone stiff.

I agree, no two fighters are the same, I'm just hypothesising as to why Canelo, who's never shied from a challenge, has been so reluctant to demand this fight having shared a ring with GGG before. There has to be a reason he's fighting Khan and not GGG, a GGG fight would have been massive and is mandated anyway. Do I think Canelo is scared? No, he's proven tough and not a ducker and he won't start now. Do I think he has more doubts about whether he can win this than any other fight? Yes. I don't think GGG has the same concern.


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## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

LiL Boosie said:


> I have a hard time understanding this...
> 
> Honestly I believe GGG & Canelo are similar levels...
> 
> ...


IKR


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

All of a sudden Matthysse was just a puncher? No. GGG is more skilled and is more of a pressure fighter to Matthysse's boxer-puncher style, but Matthysse had plenty of skill and used his boxing ability in a more fleshed out way than GGG does.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah my friend said something funny to me 2 years ago. He said Cotto could look just like GGG if he fought the same level of opponents. That's why we saw him look like a monster vs Delvin Rodriguez. I laughed at his comment, but then gave him credit after Cotto knocked out Geale just as dominantly as GGG did. I know there was a catchweight involved, but Cotto looked just as devastating and more skilled imo than GGG did.


Agreed, and good example. I mean do we expect Canelo to struggle much against Rubio, Rosado, or Lemieux? Nope. And I'm not a Canelo fan. His cement feet bother me, as does his blatant judge favoritism, and he fucked up Archie Solis bad like a bully. But he'd look real special fighting the good but limited fighters GGG has. And not just anyone would, but Canelo probably would. I mean shit, that's why it's a good fight.


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

I don't know if its unpopular more than it simply isn't looked at as probable seeing Canelo's work ethic or lack thereof and diva ways and shown fighting style.

I was one of the few people on this site saying Canelo should fight GGG after the Willie Monroe fight and in that thread I said exactly what I saw Canelo being able to implement if he wanted to win.

That said Canelo showed in fights again Cotto and in chosing Khan and demanding a catchweight for his 160 title that he doesn't have the mindset to be a champion. He looks for easy paths and shortcuts and that isn't the mental attitude he will need if he is to beat GGG. IMHO.

------
I do think Quillin or Jacobs, even with their shakey chins have the explosiveness and quick feet to give GGG major problems.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

JamieC said:


> GGG is a coward for not fighting at the championship weight when there is no obligation to fight lower than that? It's not a voluntary, he is mandated to fight for the title at 160, why would he be a coward for not giving that up if he doesn't have to?
> 
> The very nice line was "The Kazakh just smiled back" whereas Canelo was shaking out his legs after they'd gone stiff.
> 
> I agree, no two fighters are the same, I'm just hypothesising as to why Canelo, who's never shied from a challenge, has been so reluctant to demand this fight having shared a ring with GGG before. There has to be a reason he's fighting Khan and not GGG, a GGG fight would have been massive and is mandated anyway. Do I think Canelo is scared? No, he's proven tough and not a ducker and he won't start now. Do I think he has more doubts about whether he can win this than any other fight? Yes. I don't think GGG has the same concern.


What would be the reason for rejecting the fight at 158lbs? When he's called out fighters at a lower weight than that? If GBP say its 158 or nothing and he turns away, you will soon see boxing fans question his motives. 2lbs isn't a huge price to give up when you are the B side and the B side by a big margin.

You can't just ignore what happened because Fischer said he smiled, smiling after you get hit with a big punch is usually an indication that it hurt, and felt different from all of the other punches, hence the special reaction. Either way, the sparring was even throughout and both guys landed their big shots. You tried to paint a completely different picture of what happened. Canelo, as a 20 year old kid, is more likely to take confidence from that sparring session than the opposite.

Of course there is a reason he is fighting Khan and it makes complete sense, I'm not sure why you can't see that? Canelo v Khan will probably do at least 500k PPV's, it s a big pay day for him, it will increase his fame in the UK and further elevate it him as the biggest star in boxing if it all goes to plan. If Oscar says, before we get to GGG you can slip in a fight with Khan first and achieve all of the above, you would be a fool to turn it down. Canelo is a young guy, he doesn't have to rush into any fight, he's got ample to time to fight everyone and earn as much money along the way.

Dominic Wade on the other hand does absolutely nothing for GGG's career, and just adds to his list of subpar opponents that no one wanted to watch.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> I don't know if its unpopular more than it simply isn't looked at as probable seeing Canelo's work ethic or lack thereof and diva ways and shown fighting style.
> 
> I was one of the few people on this site saying Canelo should fight GGG after the Willie Monroe fight and in that thread I said exactly what I saw Canelo being able to implement if he wanted to win.
> 
> ...


Might be why GGG rejected a career high pay day with Jacobs.

What has the Cotto fight got to do with anything by the way? Canelo fought him and beat him in a pretty good fight. It's not his fault Cotto fought like a bitch and fought on the backfoot for the entire fight. Cotto couldn't land shit but a jab and had all of his power combinations blocked pretty easily. Canelo showed he was physically much stronger, which we all expected, but he also showed he was the better boxer, better defense, more accurate, much faster etc.

Honestly if Floyd had done some of the counters Canelo did in that fight the GIFs would be reposted in every thread.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

TFG said:


> Might be why GGG rejected a career high pay day with Jacobs.
> 
> What has the Cotto fight got to do with anything by the way? Canelo fought him and beat him in a pretty good fight. It's not his fault Cotto fought like a bitch and fought on the backfoot for the entire fight. Cotto couldn't land shit but a jab and had all of his power combinations blocked pretty easily. Canelo showed he was physically much stronger, which we all expected, but he also showed he was the better boxer, better defense, more accurate, much faster etc.
> 
> Honestly if Floyd had done some of the counters Canelo did in that fight the GIFs would be reposted in every thread.


naw man I love Canelo's pull counter uppercut that he did on Cotto


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

I wouldn't characterise it as unpopular unless you're referring to particular quotes that I haven't seen. But Golovkin is probably favourite. Maybe not by a large margin though.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> naw man I love Canelo's pull counter uppercut that he did on Cotto


So do I dude, but it's still a difficult task trying to convince someone that Canelo is incredibly slick and not just a cement feet plodder.


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

TFG said:


> Might be why GGG rejected a career high pay day with Jacobs.
> 
> What has the Cotto fight got to do with anything by the way? Canelo fought him and beat him in a pretty good fight. It's not his fault Cotto fought like a bitch and fought on the backfoot for the entire fight. Cotto couldn't land shit but a jab and had all of his power combinations blocked pretty easily. Canelo showed he was physically much stronger, which we all expected, but he also showed he was the better boxer, better defense, more accurate, much faster etc.
> 
> Honestly if Floyd had done some of the counters Canelo did in that fight the GIFs would be reposted in every thread.


Its that again he showed like against Floyd, that he wasn't committed to implementing the best gameplan to achieve a victory, same with Trout and Lara (both fights I thought he lost).

He needs to learn to be more like a Spence, use his jab and stalk, cutting off the ring and bringing educated pressure and bringing that pressure consistantly. He is a very good counter puncher though, which comes in handy later in fights where he can stalk,but also set traps when guys try to go back at him and leave them walking into something.

All that said I just don't see anything from him but more of the same, fighting in small spurts while he sets back and does nothing for a great deal of tiime.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> Its that again he showed like against Floyd, that he wasn't committed to implementing the best gameplan to achieve a victory, same with Trout and Lara (both fights I thought he lost).
> 
> He needs to learn to be more like a Spence, use his jab and stalk, cutting off the ring and bringing educated pressure and bringing that pressure consistantly. He is a very good counter puncher though, which comes in handy later in fights where he can stalk,but also set traps when guys try to go back at him and leave them walking into something.
> 
> All that said I just don't see anything from him but more of the same, fighting in small spurts while he sets back and does nothing for a great deal of tiime.


I can't agree with that, they gameplan very well and always get good sparring in to imitate opponents. Against Trout he focused on using his head movement to stop him htting gloves and scoring points on the way out like he did against Cotto. His gameplan couldn't have been any different against Lara, he come in looking much faster on his feet than usual and stuck to the gameplan all night, cut off the ring and bang the body. No one wins clearly against Lara. Cotto ran for the full fight and was beaten clearly imo, they hit the body well all night and won the vast majority of exchanges shipping very little punishment.

They might all look like close fight but this is elite opposition, let's see how well Spence does at cutting off the ring against a guy who specializes in evasiveness like Lara or Trout, or how he deal with Cotto banging his head and body.

Like someone else said, Cotto runs through all of GGG's opponents just like he did. Cotto was walking through legit middleweights and coudn't do shit to Canelo, who is actually fighting the best guys and more importantly, fighters who are bad match ups for him. As GGG ever fought anyone who is truly elite at being evasive and defensive? He's known as the best ring cutter for cutting off fighters who usually do the cutting.


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

TFG said:


> Goldenboy are probably going to try and get the catchweight, that's what they do, I imagine they will negotiate at about 158. Golovkin is the corward if he doesn't accept that. Canelo personally said he would fight at 160, but he doesn't decide who he fights, GBP do. I have a feeling he will protest and go with 158 at minimum, as he has gotten his way before and shown that he cares what people think of him.
> 
> I think your argument is piss poor mate, even Fischer who wrote that article doesn't say it was a bad sparring session. It was a 20 year old kid going against a very experienced and powerful fighter and fought with him evenely, even those excerpts show that. *"Shook GGG down to his shoes". *Getting rocked in sparring isn't the end of the world and that's just Fischer's interpretation of it, there's other people who've given an account of what happened and mentioned nothing about. No one knows how hurt he was.
> 
> ...


:rofl Trying to make out Golovkin's the problem if he won't fight the lineal middleweight champion at 158? :rofl



JamieC said:


> GGG is a coward for not fighting at the championship weight when there is no obligation to fight lower than that? It's not a voluntary, he is mandated to fight for the title at 160, why would he be a coward for not giving that up if he doesn't have to?
> 
> The very nice line was "The Kazakh just smiled back" whereas Canelo was shaking out his legs after they'd gone stiff.
> 
> I agree, no two fighters are the same, I'm just hypothesising as to why Canelo, who's never shied from a challenge, has been so reluctant to demand this fight having shared a ring with GGG before. There has to be a reason he's fighting Khan and not GGG, a GGG fight would have been massive and is mandated anyway. Do I think Canelo is scared? No, he's proven tough and not a ducker and he won't start now. Do I think he has more doubts about whether he can win this than any other fight? Yes. I don't think GGG has the same concern.


Canelo fighting Khan isn't building this fight (Canelo/GGG). It smacks of stalling tactics by GBP; either they fear a loss and want to cash in beforehand, OR they're hoping Golovkin will show signs of his age...which isn't happening yet.


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

People have seen Canelo struggle and they haven't seen little g struggle. However, Canelo has also fought far superior competition.

A lot of the attitudes about the fight are shaped by sheep who just take Max Kellerman and Jim Lampley to heart and think little g is PFP #1 as Abel Sanchez suggests. Again, little g's best win is arguably Curtis Stevens...so there's really nothing to talk about in terms of PFP or anything considering MW is among (if not the) weakest division in the sport.

Choosing a favorite for the fight depends on what weight the fight happens at. At 155 I'm betting Canelo. At 160 I'm betting little g. Canelo is a live dog because he boxes well, has a good chin, and has a preference for counter-punching (don't believe me? Check out Kirkland and Angulo fights). Those attributes will bode well against a 100% come-forward fighter


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## Johnstown (Jun 4, 2013)

Robney said:


> If you struggled with the likes of Lara and Trout, and many even say you lost those fights, then it's hard to imagine him doing well against the monster from a division above, who clearly has an iron jaw to boot.
> It's why they want to drain him, just to hope Canelo can take him the distance that way and let the judges do the job they were paid off for.
> 
> GGG does everything better, has more power, a much higher punch output and weights the same at fightnight.
> Not hard to imagine what would happen here.


This


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Popularity really doesn't figure in when I am picking a winner between two fighters. In regards to Alvarez, those picking GGG to defeat him is simply see him as the better fighter. He does some thing much better than Alvarez. Personally I think Alvarez can give him trouble for a little, but ultimately, I can see GGG breaking him down towards a late stoppage.


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

TFG said:


> I can't agree with that, they gameplan very well and always get good sparring in to imitate opponents. Against Trout he focused on using his head movement to stop him htting gloves and scoring points on the way out like he did against Cotto. His gameplan couldn't have been any different against Lara, he come in looking much faster on his feet than usual and stuck to the gameplan all night, cut off the ring and bang the body. No one wins clearly against Lara. Cotto ran for the full fight and was beaten clearly imo, they hit the body well all night and won the vast majority of exchanges shipping very little punishment.
> 
> They might all look like close fight but this is elite opposition, let's see how well Spence does at cutting off the ring against a guy who specializes in evasiveness like Lara or Trout, or how he deal with Cotto banging his head and body.
> 
> Like someone else said, Cotto runs through all of GGG's opponents just like he did. Cotto was walking through legit middleweights and coudn't do shit to Canelo, who is actually fighting the best guys and more importantly, fighters who are bad match ups for him. As GGG ever fought anyone who is truly elite at being evasive and defensive? He's known as the best ring cutter for cutting off fighters who usually do the cutting.


Well the good thing is I'm not asking you to agree with me, I'm telling you my opinion. If you disagree fine.

Against Trout he was doing well slipping his jab on the outside and until the knockdown I'd say he was actually doing pretty well and it was a even fight. The knockdown caused Trout to adjust press more and I think that is what should have played into Canelo's hands even more, but it didn't and on my card Trout pulled away late and won the fight.

Again Lara the plan again should have been to press behind the jab, bang the body early, and hopefully get him stationary late and catch him upstairs in much the manner that Angulo did. he didn't do it, he was content to do his part time fighting thing and Lara made him pay with his ability to fight negative and Lara clearly won the fight for me again.

Cotto and Lara cut the ring off well against Trout. Molina cut the ring off well against Lara as well as Vanes. Angulo cut the ring off well against Lara. I don't think its unfair to put Canelo on the level of cotto, lara, angulo, or carlos molina. I don't think that is unfair at all, and it shows his mindset.

Cotto isn't impressive to me over 147, and neither is Canelo or GGG. So trying to make the argument is ridiculous to me, because its a stance I personally haven't taken or an argument I have presented.

That said, I can see Canelo having success and maybe beating GGG physically, but I don't think he has the mindset to bite down and do it, he is content to simply hang around and get the gift decisions he feels entitled to.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah my friend said something funny to me 2 years ago. He said Cotto could look just like GGG if he fought the same level of opponents. That's why we saw him look like a monster vs Delvin Rodriguez. I laughed at his comment, but then gave him credit after Cotto knocked out Geale just as dominantly as GGG did. I know there was a catchweight involved, but Cotto looked just as devastating and more skilled imo than GGG did.


Remind me which world title Delvin Rodriguez held?


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

TFG said:


> What would be the reason for rejecting the fight at 158lbs? When he's called out fighters at a lower weight than that? If GBP say its 158 or nothing and he turns away, you will soon see boxing fans question his motives. 2lbs isn't a huge price to give up when you are the B side and the B side by a big margin.
> 
> You can't just ignore what happened because Fischer said he smiled, smiling after you get hit with a big punch is usually an indication that it hurt, and felt different from all of the other punches, hence the special reaction. Either way, the sparring was even throughout and both guys landed their big shots. You tried to paint a completely different picture of what happened. Canelo, as a 20 year old kid, is more likely to take confidence from that sparring session than the opposite.
> 
> ...


Fuck this whole "A side and B side" bullshit.

Yes I realize that's how things are and have been for a long time, but it's been getting way out of hand lately and it's making this sport a joke.

What makes me more sick is asshole fans that go along with it, and justify the fighters divas antics cus of this bullshit.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

There's one sure-fire way to put this topic to bed. GGG vs Canelo at 160 pounds.


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## LayItDown (Jun 17, 2013)

These cunts will have a trilogy.


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## Crean (May 19, 2013)

This whole catchweight for the MW Title is doing my head in.

Just fight at the MW limit if a title is on the line. It needs to be enforced.


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## church11 (Jun 6, 2013)

i actually favour canelo. i think he's young enough to not panic when he gets hit hard.


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

delete


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> Well the good thing is I'm not asking you to agree with me, I'm telling you my opinion. If you disagree fine.
> 
> Against Trout he was doing well slipping his jab on the outside and until the knockdown I'd say he was actually doing pretty well and it was a even fight. The knockdown caused Trout to adjust press more and I think that is what should have played into Canelo's hands even more, but it didn't and on my card Trout pulled away late and won the fight.
> 
> ...


I never said you had to agree with me, I was simply highlighting our point of disagreement, that's usually how a debate works.

Firstly, no one should ever score that fight for Trou, but I'm glad you made the argument that Canelo let Trout take over the final rounds. you do realize that Canelo was informed in the 8th round that he already won the fight? The scores were revealed to the corners and all Canelo had to do was see out the fight and he wins. Trout on the other hand was told that he had to go get a knockout or at least a couple of KD's. Do you not think that's a better explanation for what happened in the end of the fight? Seeing as we have seen Canelo rally late in his fights against Lara and Cotto when it was close on points?

That's exactly what Canelo did, and it worked as good as any gameplan ever has on Lara. Angulo closed the distance and put Lara down by walking through punches, that's not Canelo's game and it didn't really work out for Angulo either, his face got destroyed because of his lack of defense and Lara wins a stoppage. Lara fought the most negative he has ever fought, by far, and still got outpointed by Canelo, as at his own game. Your last point makes no sense, Canelo has beaten 3 out of the 4 fighters you have listed and has proven to be a level above.

Cotto was walking straight through the top middleweights in the world and was in the best form of his career since his 140 run. Funny you say that Cotto wasn't looking impressive, a lot of people on here were picking him to beat Canelo. Some even saying he would walk Canelo down and KO him. In reality, he tried to steal the fight on his backfoot with his jab, which was the only punch he could land and got beaten clearly.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> THE MW Title is a national treasure. It shouldn't be in catchweights. Everyone just wants the fight to happen.


Yeah,but 155 is like 147 in 1981.It's the blue ribbon division now.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> Yeah,but 155 is like 147 in 1981.It's the blue ribbon division now.


:rofl I'm enjoying this angle you've been on. Plays into my mentality, though I think I'm bound to become a modern midget convert thanks to Lester and Zopilote.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

TFG said:


> Such bullshit.
> 
> Canelo has called him out more than once and told him he'll take the fight at 160lb. They've agreed to negotiate after their next fights, neither of them have ducked each other, that's just boxing fans being idiots as usual and genuinely believing that a Mexican kid like Canelo is genuinely scared of another fighter his same size:rofl The same kid who went out of his way to fight guys who everyone said he would avoid.
> 
> ...


I watched Canelo say after his last fight that "Canelo will go to 160 when his body feels ready"

I like the lad but he's stalling big time on Golovkin.
It was either before or after his last fight and many others would have heard it even though I can't pinpoint it.
But he honestly said it mate.Many were gutted and/or very sceptical of the comment.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

LiL Boosie said:


> I got a question, for those saying ggg will easily beat Canelo...
> How many of you guys also picked Lucas to KO Danny easily?
> 
> I was one of the few who picked Danny, who had clearly been a very good boxer and beaten the better opposition then lucas had yet was given no chance to win


I admit I got that one wrong.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

JamieC said:


> These are going to be some simple rebuttals.
> 
> A link from 5 days ago where Team Canelo insist on a catchweight : http://www.boxingnews24.com/2016/04/canelos-promoter-says-golovkin-needs-agree-catch-weight/
> 
> ...


If that's the case it's disgraceful.
Why is/was he holding a MW belt if he's no intention of fighting there.
He's the 155 king so accept that and stop acting like a 160 fighter.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> If that's the case it's disgraceful.
> Why is/was he holding a MW belt if he's no intention of fighting there.
> He's the 155 king so accept that and stop acting like a 160 fighter.


At first it was said he'd dropped the demand, when I proved that to be false GGG is suddenly a coward if he doesn't accept it :lol:


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> He has a point, what difference will it make? Golovkin is under 160 regularly anyways. Adjust your damned diet and make the weight. Apparently Golovkin has said hed even fight at 154 anyways, so why not 155?
> 
> PS I'm a Golovkin fan and I could take or leave Canelo


Did you not say earlier you don't like catchweights?

Edit:Yes you jolly well did.C'mon turbo.You need to troll in a less volatile thread.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

TFG said:


> Goldenboy are probably going to try and get the catchweight, that's what they do, I imagine they will negotiate at about 158. Golovkin is the corward if he doesn't accept that. Canelo personally said he would fight at 160, but he doesn't decide who he fights, GBP do. I have a feeling he will protest and go with 158 at minimum, as he has gotten his way before and shown that he cares what people think of him.
> 
> I think your argument is piss poor mate, even Fischer who wrote that article doesn't say it was a bad sparring session. It was a 20 year old kid going against a very experienced and powerful fighter and fought with him evenely, even those excerpts show that. *"Shook GGG down to his shoes". *Getting rocked in sparring isn't the end of the world and that's just Fischer's interpretation of it, there's other people who've given an account of what happened and mentioned nothing about. No one knows how hurt he was.
> 
> ...


So Golovkin is still the MW champ if he loses?


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :rofl I'm enjoying this angle you've been on. Plays into my mentality, though I think I'm bound to become a modern midget convert thanks to Lester and Zopilote.


No ones's mentioning that Canelo is making Khan jump up two weightclasses either.
From 147 through 154 straight to 155.
Say what you want about Khan,but this is a ballsy move.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

JamieC said:


> At first it was said he'd dropped the demand, when I proved that to be false GGG is suddenly a coward if he doesn't accept it :lol:


You didn't prove anything to be false.

You made something up about him not wanting to fight GGG because of a sparring session and that was apparently the reason he wouldn't fight him at 160. I showed you a quote from a GBP executive who confirmed that Canelo's team had said they would be willing to fight at 160, if GBP are now saying they aren't going to go with 160 then there's very little Canelo can do about it until the time comes to negotiate, at the moment it is hearsay.

And yeah, if GGG refuses the fight at 158lbs, after saying he would fight any big fights from 154-168, then the fingers should be pointing at him just as much as Canelo. They are both obstructing the fight being made, you can't get away with calling out Floyd at 154, saying you will fight anyone and then reject the biggest fight available to you at 158, which is within the weight you ask for.

And unfortunately A side v B side DOES matter, you can't just erase the years of precedent set by the world best fighters. Boxing is ran on precedent and when you are the biggest star in boxing, you are going to extract advantages from opponents who don't bring as much to the table, just like Roy, DLH, Floyd and Manny all did. Canelo is managed by the very same people. He likely doesn't give a fuck who he fights, but the people who have investments in him do.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

TFG said:


> You didn't prove anything to be false.
> 
> You made something up about him not wanting to fight GGG because of a sparring session and that was apparently the reason he wouldn't fight him at 160. I showed you a quote from a GBP executive who confirmed that Canelo's team had said they would be willing to fight at 160, if GBP are now saying they aren't going to go with 160 then there's very little Canelo can do about it until the time comes to negotiate, at the moment it is hearsay.
> 
> ...


I showed you a quote from the same guy from 5 days ago insisting on a catchweight now :lol: so how does that not prove your quote from back in December no longer applies? Canelo seemed to have significant sway when demanding Mayweather and Lara as opponents against his teams wishes, but suddenly now he has no say in anything if it makes him look bad.

No its not the same as offering to come down in weight for a voluntary shot, he has earnt his shot at 160 for a 160 title and it is mandated, he doesn't have to give anything up and he'd be a fool to do so when it's not necessary. If Canelo wants to be a middleweight champino then fighting at the middleweight limit might occasionally come up.

It does matter, but equally when it comes to mandated fights if GGG wants it at 160 then Canelo can't change the rules, he can either offer something outstanding to GGG that still might not change his mind, or duck the fight. I think Canelo will take it, but even as a Canelo fan I have to say this isn't a good look for him


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

JamieC said:


> I showed you a quote from the same guy from 5 days ago insisting on a catchweight now :lol: so how does that not prove your quote from back in December no longer applies? Canelo seemed to have significant sway when demanding Mayweather and Lara as opponents against his teams wishes, but suddenly now he has no say in anything if it makes him look bad.
> 
> No its not the same as offering to come down in weight for a voluntary shot, he has earnt his shot at 160 for a 160 title and it is mandated, he doesn't have to give anything up and he'd be a fool to do so when it's not necessary. If Canelo wants to be a middleweight champino then fighting at the middleweight limit might occasionally come up.
> 
> It does matter, but equally when it comes to mandated fights if GGG wants it at 160 then Canelo can't change the rules, he can either offer something outstanding to GGG that still might not change his mind, or duck the fight. I think Canelo will take it, but even as a Canelo fan I have to say this isn't a good look for him


Because it shows that Canelo and GBP are conflicted over the issue and that it clearly isn't set in stone. Canelo may want to go one way, GBP another. The key point to it all is that they haven't even started negotiations, and you're talking about Canelo not having a say? They haven't even begun speaking to GGG's team yet, he has a fight next week ffs :lol: If Canelo wants the fight at 160, then you'll probably hear that when they are actually talking contracts, don't you think?

So you believe it's ok to tell the boxing world that you will take any big fights from 154-168 and then reject the biggest fight of them all at 158 against a guy who is a much, much bigger draw than you? Pretty sure earlier you argued that Canelo should be judged on his own rhetoric, what about little G? Don't ever get involved in fighter management, GGG rejecting that fight over 2lbs would be a terrible career move, ask your self who is the one that needs a huge fight more.

GGG could reject the offer and take the belt, what does that do for his career other than make him lose out on the only super fight available to him at the weight? He can go get schooled by Ward if he likes, but that ain't doing much for him either. He needs more fans, he needs more public appeal and he needs to fight a legit star. Canelo's belt means fuck all anyway, when was the last time it had any legitimacy?


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

TFG said:


> Because it shows that Canelo and GBP are conflicted over the issue and that it clearly isn't set in stone. Canelo may want to go one way, GBP another. The key point to it all is that they haven't even started negotiations, and you're talking about Canelo not having a say? They haven't even begun speaking to GGG's team yet, he has a fight next week ffs :lol: If Canelo wants the fight at 160, then you'll probably hear that when they are actually talking contracts, don't you think?
> 
> So you believe it's ok to tell the boxing world that you will take any big fights from 154-168 and then reject the biggest fight of them all at 158 against a guy who is a much, much bigger draw than you? Pretty sure earlier you argued that Canelo should be judged on his own rhetoric, what about little G? Don't ever get involved in fighter management, GGG rejecting that fight over 2lbs would be a terrible career move, ask your self who is the one that needs a huge fight more.
> 
> GGG could reject the offer and take the belt, what does that do for his career other than make him lose out on the only super fight available to him at the weight? He can go get schooled by Ward if he likes, but that ain't doing much for him either. He needs more fans, he needs more public appeal and he needs to fight a legit star. Canelo's belt means fuck all anyway, when was the last time it had any legitimacy?


I do think, it's just it's not looking good is it? There shouldn't be a conflict, he has a mandatory defence of his 160 lb title.

That's totally different though. One GGG never made that statement, this has been debunked on this very forum dozens of times over the years as I'm sure you are aware, it was Abel Sanchez shooting his mouth off and GGG clarified he wanted to stay at 160 for 2 years (about 18 months ago) bar a Floyd fight. That offer was made years ago, nobody took him up on it, so he's worked his way into a position where a big draw _has _to fight him and has to fight him at 160. Canelo can't then turn around and take him up on an old offer, the landscape has changed, GGG doesn't need to give up anything. I think I'd clearly be a good manager if I'm the one arguing that he doesn't accept a catchweight when he has it set in stone for 160, that's insane. What are Team Canelo going to do? Walk away? That would be reputation suicide, the boxing world would laugh them out of town.

If Canelo does walk away and GGG gets the belt there are still loads of career defining fights out there, Saunders and Jacobs straight off the bat (you claimed he rejected a career high pay day from Jacobs, weird because I just read an interview where Jacobs makes no mention of it, saying he's now ready to take GGG on), then up and comers like Derevyanchenko, Magomedov, Khytrov, Blanco etc. Where does Canelo go if he ducks GGG in front of the whole world?

BTW I'm a big Canelo fan, I'm just calling it as I see it and not blinded by liking Canelo, Team Canelo are not keen on this fight, that's clear or they'd have taken it, there's clearly more demand for it than a Khan fight which would still be there after.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

JamieC said:


> I do think, it's just it's not looking good is it? There shouldn't be a conflict, he has a mandatory defence of his 160 lb title.
> 
> That's totally different though. One GGG never made that statement, this has been debunked on this very forum dozens of times over the years as I'm sure you are aware, it was Abel Sanchez shooting his mouth off and GGG clarified he wanted to stay at 160 for 2 years (about 18 months ago) bar a Floyd fight. That offer was made years ago, nobody took him up on it, so he's worked his way into a position where a big draw _has _to fight him and has to fight him at 160. Canelo can't then turn around and take him up on an old offer, the landscape has changed, GGG doesn't need to give up anything. I think I'd clearly be a good manager if I'm the one arguing that he doesn't accept a catchweight when he has it set in stone for 160, that's insane. What are Team Canelo going to do? Walk away? That would be reputation suicide, the boxing world would laugh them out of town.
> 
> ...


Why not just wait and see what happens rather than claiming someone is scared because they fought evenly in a sparring session 4 years ago? It sounds like you already have your mind made up.

It's not totally different and GGG definitely has made a statement like that, in fact he told a good friend of mine live on air (through a translator) that weight wise, he was good to go at anything between 154-168. I heard that first hand on the podcast.

Canelo doesn't have to fight him at all, if GGG rejects 158 then Canelo isn't the only one walking away from the negotiations with egg on his face, I can assure you that. GGG is simply refusing to do what many fighters in a better position than him have had to do for years. If his principles or whatever bullshit idea he has about this belt is enough for him to skip that fight then that's on him as well. You're talking about a guy who sells 150k PPV's, I'm not one for judging fighters based on sales but they do have to be aware of their own stock and GGG will get no sympathy about not being a big star if he walks away from the fight at 158. I read through several boxing forums and given the situation, a lot of boxing fans believe a catch weight of 158 would be a fair compromise.

Canelo has an entire nation behind him and already has a much better resume than GGG, the hit wont be anywhere near as bad as you are making out, if he refused to budge from 155 then maybe, but that's very unlikely. Canelo would still be a PPV star, GGG would still be a HBO fighter needing a big fight. Your management advice is effectively, reject this huge PPV with Canelo that we believe you will win at 158lbs, then you will get the 160 belt and...be in the exact same position you are in now.

Saunders a career defining fight? Haha behave, he wouldn't win a rematch with Jr. I talk quite a bit with Jacobs manager on another forum, team GGG won't even speak to them, they won't reply to anything, they aren't interested. Erislandy Lara got the same treatment when he tried to speak to them about a clash at 160.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Did you not say earlier you don't like catchweights?
> 
> Edit:Yes you jolly well did.C'mon turbo.You need to troll in a less volatile thread.


if he doesnt want a cw everyone should just move on.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

TFG said:


> Why not just wait and see what happens rather than claiming someone is scared because they fought evenly in a sparring session 4 years ago? It sounds like you already have your mind made up.
> 
> It's not totally different and GGG definitely has made a statement like that, in fact he told a good friend of mine live on air (through a translator) that weight wise, he was good to go at anything between 154-168. I heard that first hand on the podcast.
> 
> ...


I'm happy to wait, I'm just hypothesising why Team Canelo is so reticent to take this fight.

No, if GGG insists on 160 and Canelo walks away that's on Canelo, just check the comments on any of his social media posts, even from Mexicans, it's all cherry emojis and people shouting him down about GGG. He needs to take this fight and GGG has him over a barrel over the weight. If you have a link to the podcast and a date for when GGG said this I'd be interested if it was after he stated he was now staying at 160 for 2 years to unify.

Saunders, Jacobs, Derevyanchenko, Blanco, those names will build an ATG middleweight record.

I'm not going to believe Jacobs' manager spouting on a forum tbf, what are the terms of these offers? Any third party verification? Anything said publicly that could be challenged by GGG?


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

You better believe Mexicans will turn on Canelo if he avoids GGG due to this catchweight bullshit. Many Mexicans still haven't forgave him for that pathetic showing against Floyd. Him not fighting GGG will make him an embarrassment to Mexicans, and rightfully so.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

JamieC said:


> I'm happy to wait, I'm just hypothesising why Team Canelo is so reticent to take this fight.
> 
> No, if GGG insists on 160 and Canelo walks away that's on Canelo, just check the comments on any of his social media posts, even from Mexicans, it's all cherry emojis and people shouting him down about GGG. He needs to take this fight and GGG has him over a barrel over the weight. If you have a link to the podcast and a date for when GGG said this I'd be interested if it was after he stated he was now staying at 160 for 2 years to unify.
> 
> ...


Ok, but can you admit you were talking shit about that sparring session?

Disagree, casual boxing fans don't care about the legitimacy of a belt/weight class, especially not an issue that is divided over 2lbs. No matter who rejects it, they are both still refusing to fight over the difference of 2lbs, which is petty, that's on both of them, not just Canelo. GGG would be refusing to do what plenty of others before him have had to do to become a star and that actually pisses quite a lot of people off. We know that GGG has said he would fight Mayweather at 154 because it would have been a huge fight, this is a huge fight that would give a similar pay day, walking away from it doesn't look good. It makes no sense for him to reject it at 158, especially if he believes he will definitely win. He loses too much by missing that fight over a weight technicality.

None of those fights generate GGG anything more than the 2m per fight he is earning now, nor do they do anything for his overall appeal. What's worth more, a huge win over Canelo or the lineal 160lb title that most people already think he has? It's also a bit laughable to say that list of C/B level fighters will make him an ATG resume.

Jacobs manager can be vouched for by many people, he isn't telling lies, I can PM you more details if you like. They wouldn't entertain an offer, it didn't get as far negotiating terms. Jacobs wasn't a fight on his radar. The same was reported about Lara, believe what you like but I don't see why you take such a defensive stance as if this is so unlike GGG, his team pull just as much shit as anyone else. You seem to be able distinguish between GGG and Sanchez very easy but when talking about Canelo, GBP don't seem to matter.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> You better believe Mexicans will turn on Canelo if he avoids GGG due to this catchweight bullshit. Many Mexicans still haven't forgave him for that pathetic showing against Floyd. Him not fighting GGG will make him an embarrassment to Mexicans, and rightfully so.


I suppose all you GGG fans will be incredibly proud of your man though? Missing out on the fight everyone wants to see over 2lbs that he could easily make. You must be very excited for the list of C level opponents that he would fight instead.

Again, you will see the attitude on this change if Canelo offers 158 and they can't agree. If they stick with 155 then fair enough, but it's unlikely, the fight is going to happen, logic suggests they will meet in the middle.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

TFG said:


> Ok, but can you admit you were talking shit about that sparring session?
> 
> Disagree, casual boxing fans don't care about the legitimacy of a belt/weight class, especially not an issue that is divided over 2lbs. No matter who rejects it, they are both still refusing to fight over the difference of 2lbs, which is petty, that's on both of them, not just Canelo. GGG would be refusing to do what plenty of others before him have had to do to become a star and that actually pisses quite a lot of people off. We know that GGG has said he would fight Mayweather at 154 because it would have been a huge fight, this is a huge fight that would give a similar pay day, walking away from it doesn't look good. It makes no sense for him to reject it at 158, especially if he believes he will definitely win. He loses too much by missing that fight over a weight technicality.
> 
> ...


If you are hurt by someone in sparring, you don't forget it. I got beat up by some kid sparring at another club a few weeks ago, if I get matched with him at some point I will not be looking for forward to it, let alone if he sparks 22 people out in a row in the interim. Now, I'm not sure if that's why Canelo doesn't seem to want it, but there has to be a reason he's so apprehensive, it's just a suggestion, it's not fact I'm just brainstorming :lol:

Canelo is already taking Ls in the court of public opinion, everybody is slating him over Caneloweight, he needs to take this fight at 160 and GGG has earnt his right to fight there, hence the mando, this isn't an ordinary unification so GGG shouldn't treat it as so.

These aren't B/C level fighters, he would be clearing out a division and leavnig his mark in history. If in 3 or 4 years he retires with those names and some more on his slate, history will look favourably on him. I'd like to see him at 168 but there's no a wealth of standout fights for him there right now either.

Yeah mate if you could I'd be interested as to how that offer went down, that's a fight that would be interesting. The reason GGG and Sanchez are distinguishable and Canelo and GBP aren't, is because Canelo says himself about catchweights, GGG is fairly careful with what he says. Must be clear though, I think Canelo will take it at 160, he's shown a love of taking a challenge, I will disappointed as a fan if he doesn't. I'm happy to dig him a little about it because if the general fan feeling is he has to take it, then he will. If people aren't arsed then he will look for a fight the fans are interested in.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

JamieC said:


> If you are hurt by someone in sparring, you don't forget it. I got beat up by some kid sparring at another club a few weeks ago, if I get matched with him at some point I will not be looking for forward to it, let alone if he sparks 22 people out in a row in the interim. Now, I'm not sure if that's why Canelo doesn't seem to want it, but there has to be a reason he's so apprehensive, it's just a suggestion, it's not fact I'm just brainstorming :lol:
> 
> Canelo is already taking Ls in the court of public opinion, everybody is slating him over Caneloweight, he needs to take this fight at 160 and GGG has earnt his right to fight there, hence the mando, this isn't an ordinary unification so GGG shouldn't treat it as so.
> 
> ...


That's fight or flight though mate, as someone who does a bit of sparring and isn't a pro boxer, it's perfectly normal for you to fear someone who has hurt you. When you turn pro at 15 years old and grow up in Mexico, you're not likely to have the same reaction, you'd want revenge more than anything. Not to mention that spar happened when Canelo was 20 year old, he fought evenly with GGG back then, took all of his shots and landed his own big shots as well. Given how much he has improved over those 4 years, I'd bet that he's looking forward to seeing what he can do now he is hitting his prime. GGG is the one who is yet to fight an elite fighter remember. The 155 weight comes from Canelo regretting that catch weight he took against Floyd as he thought it weakened him, he gave himself the extra pound because he can.

Well he has been fighting at Canelo weight for a couple of fights now and he still seems to be the biggest PPV draw in boxing, so whatever is hurting him, it's not hurting him that much. If this issue was as significant as you were making out, GGG wouldn't be the one drawing 1m viewers on HBO and Canelo wouldn't be the one selling the biggest PPV's in boxing. People are slating him on the basis that he won't budge from 155, if he offers 158, that's considered a move towards making the fight and people will be quick to turn on GGG just as much as Canelo for obstructing the fight. Mando or not, precedent has told us that big PPV fighters are rarely dictated to by sanctioning bodies.

I'll PM the dude to try and get some more information but from what he said on the forum, they won't really discuss anything with his team. Although tbh, it looks like Jacobs will be moving up, he's struggling to make the weight at the moment so that fight isn't likely to happen if GGG isn't willing to move up, that fight may not be an option for him for long.

I'd like to see the fight at 160 but wouldn't be surprised if GBP try to go at 158, at the point, I'd want to see GGG take the fight. I want the best fights at the end of the day, and it shouldn't be ruined by 2lbs. GGG would get a lot of credit for taking it, there's a good chance he wins it so it makes no sense to back out of it.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

TFG said:


> Ok, but can you admit you were talking shit about that sparring session?
> 
> Disagree, casual boxing fans don't care about the legitimacy of a belt/weight class, especially not an issue that is divided over 2lbs. No matter who rejects it, they are both still refusing to fight over the difference of 2lbs, which is petty, that's on both of them, not just Canelo. GGG would be refusing to do what plenty of others before him have had to do to become a star and that actually pisses quite a lot of people off. We know that GGG has said he would fight Mayweather at 154 because it would have been a huge fight, this is a huge fight that would give a similar pay day, walking away from it doesn't look good. It makes no sense for him to reject it at 158, especially if he believes he will definitely win. He loses too much by missing that fight over a weight technicality.
> 
> ...


The 160 belt is a title many people consider vital,and you only need to look on any boxing forum to see there are probably more people who think fighting at 160 for this fight is an absolute must.
And not all casuals are dismissive of it either,not by a long shot.
Why do you think Hagler kept fighting mandos he felt were unworthy?
Why do you think he refused to move down to 154 years before the actual fight with Ray happened?
Because until he beat Hearns those belts were the only juice he had.He struggled for years to get amongst the elite names for TV and he had to keep all the belts for legitimacy.
And sorry but Mayweather has no place in this debate because Hopkins talked about coming down to fight him.Most fighters between 130 and 175 would have lost or gained weight for the chance for that fight.
I like Canelo because he's now the biggest draw and fuck knows we need guys like him,but he's still not quite a Mayweather sweepstake guy.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

As long as Canelo gives up the belt and Golovkin's belts aren't at stake I'd be disappointed if Golovkin didn't take 158.


----------



## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Saunders, Jacobs, Derevyanchenko, Blanco, those names will build an ATG middleweight record.


Long term i do think the opposition at 160 is more talented and will do more for his legacy than what 168 has to offer in addition to building it at a single weightclass. I wouldn't mind seeing Degale and Ramirez at some point but James sounds like he's moving up rather soon and Ramirez is so big i suspect he'll do the same.

Jacobs
Saunders

Khurtsidze
Eubank

Derevyanchenko
Khytrov
Quigley
Magomedov
Murata
Blanco
Sulecki (Big Pole with stoppages over Proksa and Findley)

Castano 154/160 not sure where he really plans to campaign but a superb prospect
J-Rock One of the best American prospects period
Andrade Likely move up at some point


----------



## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

TFG said:


> I never said you had to agree with me, I was simply highlighting our point of disagreement, that's usually how a debate works.
> 
> Firstly, no one should ever score that fight for Trou, but I'm glad you made the argument that Canelo let Trout take over the final rounds. you do realize that Canelo was informed in the 8th round that he already won the fight? The scores were revealed to the corners and all Canelo had to do was see out the fight and he wins. Trout on the other hand was told that he had to go get a knockout or at least a couple of KD's. Do you not think that's a better explanation for what happened in the end of the fight? Seeing as we have seen Canelo rally late in his fights against Lara and Cotto when it was close on points?
> 
> ...


Took a lot to read through your bullshit but I had to stop right at this part because it was so delusional and full of shit.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> Took a lot to read through your bullshit but I had to stop right at this part because it was so delusional and full of shit.


Ok, so we will just pretend Cotto didn't walk through Geale and Martinez, who were at the time, two of the best Middleweights in the world.

Feel free to correct me whenever you like.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> The 160 belt is a title many people consider vital,and you only need to look on any boxing forum to see there are probably more people who think fighting at 160 for this fight is an absolute must.
> And not all casuals are dismissive of it either,not by a long shot.
> Why do you think Hagler kept fighting mandos he felt were unworthy?
> Why do you think he refused to move down to 154 years before the actual fight with Ray happened?
> ...


If Canelo sticks with 155 and won't budge, it will damage his brand, not as much as some are making out, but it will be bad for him.

If Canelo/GBP offer 158 and GGG says no, then it hurts both of them. No one wants to see the biggest fight in the world not be made over 2lbs.

Sanctioning bodies are a fucking joke, so don't expect me to put much worth into any belt, certainly not one that isn't even legitimate as it is.


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

TFG said:


> Goldenboy are probably going to try and get the catchweight, that's what they do, I imagine they will negotiate at about 158.* Golovkin is the corward if he doesn't accept that.* .


No, he's not.

Canelo is the coward if he asks for it. Golovkin would not only be foolish to accept, he'd be disrespecting the sport of boxing.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> No, he's not.
> 
> Canelo is the coward if he asks for it. Golovkin would not only be foolish to accept, he'd be disrespecting the sport of boxing.


Coward may have been strong, but I was using same word he did. Either way, he should accept the fight at 158 if thats what they offer.

As for being foolish to accept, there's not a single logical argument you can make in regards to the business side of boxing or the fighting side that would support that theory. A fight with Canelo is huge for GGG and a win does a lot for him, if its 158 or nothing, then a win over Canelo at 158 is most definitely better than no win at all.

He might not like it but if it's take it or leave it, he should take. He's not a draw and can't sell a PPV on his own, he's just learning how the boxing game works, it's not unusual for a fighter in his situation to have to take the shorter end of the stick against the draw.


----------



## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

TFG said:


> Ok, so we will just pretend Cotto didn't walk through Geale and Martinez, who were at the time, two of the best Middleweights in the world.
> 
> Feel free to correct me whenever you like.


Geale is not close to a world class MW.
Martinez IMHO was never a world class MW, he made his career at MW beating a drunk Pavlik and fighting a string of euro cans the equal of the bums GGG has fought, except GGG had the balls to atleast fight someone the level of Stevens.

Nah Cotto didn't fight shit at MW and cashed out fighting Canelo so he wouldn't have to fight his fucking mandatory GGG.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

TFG said:


> If Canelo sticks with 155 and won't budge, it will damage his brand, not as much as some are making out, but it will be bad for him.
> 
> If Canelo/GBP offer 158 and GGG says no, then it hurts both of them. No one wants to see the biggest fight in the world not be made over 2lbs.
> 
> Sanctioning bodies are a fucking joke, so don't expect me to put much worth into any belt, certainly not one that isn't even legitimate as it is.


It's legitimate if the two guys in question fight for it at MW.
I think you're putting all your eggs in the basket that says belts don't matter.
This is the biggest fight where they do matter,because Canelo is holding a belt at a weight he refuses to fight at.
It's hurting his reputation like it hurt Cotto's.
This is a division that people want to see who the #1 guy is for sure.If Canelo wants to keep that belt he has no business not fighting at the weight,especially when we all know that he is a perfectly sized MW.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

TFG said:


> *So you believe it's ok to tell the boxing world that you will take any big fights from 154-168 and then reject the biggest fight of them all at 158 against a guy who is a much, much bigger draw than you?* Pretty sure earlier you argued that Canelo should be judged on his own rhetoric, what about little G? Don't ever get involved in fighter management, GGG rejecting that fight over 2lbs would be a terrible career move, ask your self who is the one that needs a huge fight more.


There hasn't been anything to reject because there hasn't been any real negotiations or offers made from either side. So far it's only been talks from both parties. Only when there are real offers made, and an actual rejection leading to the fight not being made, then you may have a point.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> Geale is not close to a world class MW.
> Martinez IMHO was never a world class MW, he made his career at MW beating a drunk Pavlik and fighting a string of euro cans the equal of the bums GGG has fought, except GGG had the balls to atleast fight someone the level of Stevens.
> 
> Nah Cotto didn't fight shit at MW and cashed out fighting Canelo so he wouldn't have to fight his fucking mandatory GGG.


Ok, so the long time MW champion is not considered a world class MW, gotcha.

Curtis Stevens? Who has he beaten that's as good as Felix Sturm, who Geale has a legitimate win over. Geale was a highly ranked Middleweight by everyone, so again, he was a world class MW that Cotto walked through.

Cotto's punches straight through the vast majority of GGG's resume, which not only says a lot about G, it shows that Cotto is a legitimate win at MW, he would have beat everyone but GGG at the weight. Sounds world class.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

TFG said:


> Ok, so the long time MW champion is not considered a world class MW, gotcha.
> 
> Curtis Stevens? Who has he beaten that's as good as Felix Sturm, who Geale has a legitimate win over. Geale was a highly ranked Middleweight by everyone, so again, he was a world class MW that Cotto walked through.
> 
> Cotto's punches straight through the vast majority of GGG's resume, which not only says a lot about G, it shows that Cotto is a legitimate win at MW, he would have beat everyone but GGG at the weight. Sounds world class.


Cotto would have beaten everyone at middleweight besides GGG? what is your rationale for that besides Cotto sparking geale at a catchweight?

I dont know that Cotto would have beaten Murray, Jacobs, Heiland, Lemieux, Saunders, Tureano Johnson, Quillin or Eubank.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Cotto would have beaten everyone at middleweight besides GGG? what is your rationale for that besides Cotto sparking geale at a catchweight?
> 
> I dont know that Cotto would have beaten Murray, Jacobs, Heiland, Lemieux, Saunders, Tureano Johnson, Quillin or Eubank.


What do you think the rationale is? I would pick that version of Cotto to beat all the fighters on that list bar maybe Quillin and Jacobs which would be good fights. By that logic, it's fair to suggest that Cotto is a good win at the weight, given he is clearly one of the better fighters.

No one knows if he would have beaten them, but he should be the favorite in most of these match ups after sparking Geale and Martinez.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

TFG said:


> What do you think the rationale is? I would pick that version of Cotto to beat all the fighters on that list bar maybe Quillin and Jacobs which would be good fights. By that logic, it's fair to suggest that Cotto is a good win at the weight, given he is clearly one of the better fighters.
> 
> No one knows if he would have beaten them, but he should be the favorite in most of these match ups after sparking Geale and Martinez.


I honestly don't know what the rationale is. Geale was probably weakened by the catchweight and just got KTFO'd by Golovkin a year earlier. I doubt that was the best version of Geale.

Cotto is a good win for Canelo, but not because Cotto is some monster at middleweight. at the end of the day it was essentially a fight between two light middleweights, masquerading as middleweights @ 155. Canelo will learn this when he fights Golovkin.

Why is Canelo fighting Khan instead of a middleweight? Can someone seriously answer this


----------



## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> I honestly don't know what the rationale is. Geale was probably weakened by the catchweight and just got KTFO'd by Golovkin a year earlier. I doubt that was the best version of Geale.
> 
> Cotto is a good win for Canelo, but not because Cotto is some monster at middleweight. at the end of the day it was essentially a fight between two light middleweights, masquerading as middleweights @ 155. Canelo will learn this when he fights Golovkin.
> 
> *Why is Canelo fighting Khan instead of a middleweight? Can someone seriously answer this*


He isn't and has never been interested in fighting GGG at 160 anytime soon. Was willing to give up the belt whenever he had to, IMO.


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> I honestly don't know what the rationale is. Geale was probably weakened by the catchweight and just got KTFO'd by Golovkin a year earlier. I doubt that was the best version of Geale.
> 
> Cotto is a good win for Canelo, but not because Cotto is some monster at middleweight. at the end of the day it was essentially a fight between two light middleweights, masquerading as middleweights @ 155. Canelo will learn this when he fights Golovkin.
> 
> Why is Canelo fighting Khan instead of a middleweight? Can someone seriously answer this


Geale was weakened by the fact Cotto was a better fighter than him, GGG KO'ing him is hardly evidence of anything is it?

Cotto beats the majority of the Middleweight division, regardless of whether he comes in at 160 or not. The majority of boxing fans would favour him over Murray, Lemeiux, Heiland, Saunders, Eubank etc. I mean Cotto v Saunders? Behave, he wipes the floor with him.

Because Khan sells a big PPV, he's young, he's got time to take all these fights. I'd have thought the reason would be obvious, I'd have picked Khan over some B level middleweight as well, it's a much bigger fight.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

TFG said:


> I suppose all you GGG fans will be incredibly proud of your man though? Missing out on the fight everyone wants to see over 2lbs that he could easily make. You must be very excited for the list of C level opponents that he would fight instead.
> 
> Again, you will see the attitude on this change if Canelo offers 158 and they can't agree. If they stick with 155 then fair enough, but it's unlikely, the fight is going to happen, logic suggests they will meet in the middle.


If Golovkin told him 160lbs or nothing, I'd give him props, as he would stick to his guns and tell Canelo to go fuck himself for being a bitch ass diva and make him look like a bitch that was too scared to fight him at the Middleweight limit. But if he agreed to 158lbs, I'd be sorta ok with that, as it wouldn't be as bad and most likely wouldn't effect Golovkin much. Canelo could still go fuck himself as far I'm concern, as his intentions would clearly be to weaken Golovkin, and would laugh at his ass after Triple G whoops him at that catchweight. The only scenario where I wouldn't lose respect for Saul is if he fights GGG at 160lbs, period.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Did you not say earlier you don't like catchweights?
> 
> Edit:Yes you jolly well did.C'mon turbo.You need to troll in a less volatile thread.


I never said I liked them, but if Golovkin wants the fight, either concede or just move on.


----------



## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

Sweethome_Bama said:


> Geale is not close to a world class MW.
> Martinez IMHO was never a world class MW, he made his career at MW beating a drunk Pavlik and fighting a string of euro cans the equal of the bums GGG has fought, except GGG had the balls to atleast fight someone the level of Stevens.
> 
> Nah Cotto didn't fight shit at MW and cashed out fighting Canelo so he wouldn't have to fight his fucking mandatory GGG.


Granted, I think Martínez was a little overrated, and Cotto's win over him is hollow seeing what state he was in, but to say he wasn't even world class is batshit crazy


----------



## Juiceboxbiotch (May 16, 2013)

I probably said it before in this thread (I can't be bothered to search the thread).. but this is a 50/50 fight.


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## Sweethome_Bama (Jul 29, 2012)

Eoghan said:


> Granted, I think Martínez was a little overrated, and Cotto's win over him is hollow seeing what state he was in, but to say he wasn't even world class is batshit crazy


What legit MW did he fight outside of Pavlik? Sergio that is.
He fought the same level of comp as GGG, while you had Quillin, Lee, Jacobs, and GGG out there and available.


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## khan_is_delusional (Jul 14, 2015)

Check out all the replies to this...


__
http://instagr.am/p/BEPsdD8H-lR/


```
<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-captioned data-instgrm-version="6" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:658px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:8px;"> <div style=" background:#F8F8F8; line-height:0; margin-top:40px; padding:50.0% 0; text-align:center; width:100%;"> <div style=" background:url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACwAAAAsCAMAAAApWqozAAAAGFBMVEUiIiI9PT0eHh4gIB4hIBkcHBwcHBwcHBydr+JQAAAACHRSTlMABA4YHyQsM5jtaMwAAADfSURBVDjL7ZVBEgMhCAQBAf//42xcNbpAqakcM0ftUmFAAIBE81IqBJdS3lS6zs3bIpB9WED3YYXFPmHRfT8sgyrCP1x8uEUxLMzNWElFOYCV6mHWWwMzdPEKHlhLw7NWJqkHc4uIZphavDzA2JPzUDsBZziNae2S6owH8xPmX8G7zzgKEOPUoYHvGz1TBCxMkd3kwNVbU0gKHkx+iZILf77IofhrY1nYFnB/lQPb79drWOyJVa/DAvg9B/rLB4cC+Nqgdz/TvBbBnr6GBReqn/nRmDgaQEej7WhonozjF+Y2I/fZou/qAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC); display:block; height:44px; margin:0 auto -44px; position:relative; top:-22px; width:44px;"></div></div> <p style=" margin:8px 0 0 0; padding:0 4px;"> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/p/BEPsdD8H-lR/" style=" color:#000; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none; word-wrap:break-word;" target="_blank">#Repost @canelostore ・・・ Four new styles at www.CaneloStore.com! Show us your favorite, order yours today! . . . @canelo #custom #apparel #canelostore #caneloalvarez #hats #worldchamp #canelokhan #follow #boxing</a></p> <p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;">A photo posted by Saul Alvarez (@canelo) on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2016-04-16T02:58:52+00:00">Apr 15, 2016 at 7:58pm PDT</time></p></div></blockquote>
<script async defer src="//platform.instagram.com/en_US/embeds.js"></script>
```


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

khan_is_delusional said:


> Check out all the replies to this...
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BEPsdD8H-lR/


Fucking hell :lol: That's what I'm on about when I say his rep can't afford the hit of not fighting GGG next so if GGG doesn't budge on 160, it will happen at 160.


----------



## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

People must be seriously fucking delusional if they think Canelo would trouble GGG.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> I never said I liked them, but if Golovkin wants the fight, either concede or just move on.


But why does he concede when the fight is for the 160 lineal title?


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> But why does he concede when the fight is for the 160 lineal title?


Because A side B side blah blah blah... Canelo did it for FMjr blah blah.... That's pretty much the jist of it.

Crazy thing is, here we have a guy who is trying to unify the titles, something we can all agree is a good thing. And he's also one who believes in defending the titles at the limits, which I THOUGHT was something posters here always said is how it should be.

But GGG and his team has made a bunch of posters go full retard. These guys have whipped their dicks out at the funeral, and are just jerking off now.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Mal said:


> Because A side B side blah blah blah... Canelo did it for FMjr blah blah.... That's pretty much the jist of it.
> 
> Crazy thing is, here we have a guy who is trying to unify the titles, something we can all agree is a good thing. And he's also one who believes in defending the titles at the limits, which I THOUGHT was something posters here always said is how it should be.
> 
> But GGG and his team has made a bunch of posters go full retard. These guys have whipped their dicks out at the funeral, and are just jerking off now.


Sorry Mal.Who is the guy you are saying is trying to unify the titles?
The middle paragraph sounds like one thing,but before I could reply with any conviction I'd need to know if you mean Canelo or Golovkin in said second paragraph.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Sorry Mal.Who is the guy you are saying is trying to unify the titles?
> The middle paragraph sounds like one thing,but before I could reply with any conviction I'd need to know if you mean Canelo or Golovkin in said second paragraph.


Oops, meant GGG. Sorry for the lack of clarity on that.


----------



## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

Mal said:


> There hasn't been anything to reject because there hasn't been any real negotiations or offers made from either side. So far it's only been talks from both parties. Only when there are real offers made, and an actual rejection leading to the fight not being made, then you may have a point.


That was my salient point throughout the debate.

You've taken it out of context.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

TFG said:


> That was my salient point throughout the debate.
> 
> You've taken it out of context.


Guess I misinterpreted the context, my bad. :cheers


----------



## noslackgiven (Apr 19, 2016)

turbotime said:


> THE MW Title is a national treasure. It shouldn't be in catchweights. Everyone just wants the fight to happen.


MW used to be a national treasure....now it's just a wasteland...like heavyweight.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> But why does he concede when the fight is for the 160 lineal title?


155 - 160 is middleweight.


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Mal said:


> Crazy thing is, here we have a guy who is trying to unify the titles, something we can all agree is a good thing. And he's also one who believes in defending the titles at the limits, which I THOUGHT was something posters here always said is how it should be.


If you need titles to tell you who the champion at a weight class is than you have bigger problems. Belts don't mean shit. It's clear as day and night which fighters are #1 in each division. I sure as fuck don't need titles or The Ring magazine to explain that to me.



Mal said:


> But GGG and his team has made a bunch of posters go full retard. These guys have whipped their dicks out at the funeral, and are just jerking off now.


I completely agree. little g calls out bigger fighter, bigger fighter accepts offer, little g demands catchweight. little g claims he won't take fight b/c he needs a marquee name, marquee name accepts (BHop), little g won't take the fight. little g keeps fighting cab drivers and claims all smaller fighters (Floyd, Pac, BOSSNELO) are dodging him.

BOSSNELO beats Cotto (a PFP fighter) at JMW (although it was technically at MW) and wins some arbitrary belt. little g calls out BOSSNELO and demands he fight him at 160 although BOSSNELO has never fought above 154/155 and BOSSNELO is the PPV attraction.

Yeah the contradictions are insane. little g and his team certainly have made a bunch of posters go full retard, I agree. To those posters I say - wake the fuck up


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> If you need titles to tell you who the champion at a weight class is than you have bigger problems. Belts don't mean shit. It's clear as day and night which fighters are #1 in each division. I sure as fuck don't need titles or The Ring magazine to explain that to me.
> 
> I completely agree. little g calls out bigger fighter, bigger fighter accepts offer, little g demands catchweight. little g claims he won't take fight b/c he needs a marquee name, marquee name accepts (BHop), little g won't take the fight. little g keeps fighting cab drivers and claims all smaller fighters (Floyd, Pac, BOSSNELO) are dodging him.
> 
> ...


Post like an adult for fuck's sake. :rolleyes


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Mal said:


> Post like an adult for fuck's sake. :rolleyes


Just ignore all my points for some ignorant shit.

Oh well, agree to disagree


----------



## HumansSuck (Nov 4, 2015)

One thing I think people overlook is that while Canelo was easy to find at 147 that is no guarantee he will be easy to find at 160.

We know historically speaking that as a boxer moves up in weight they usually have a speed advantage on their bigger opponent. Golovkin is used to fighting middleweights. Big guys who he can maneuver around and land precise hard shots on. 

The big question is what will he do when he can't find the guy to land those punches on? Look at the Wade fight. How often Wade was available to hit upstairs and downstairs. I highly, highly doubt Canelo goes into this with a mentality of standing in front of GGG. 

What I think happens is a bit surprising for some people. Yes, GGG hits much harder, yes, GGG takes a better shot. However Canelo has the acumen and the speed I think to make this a real fight. If he comes to box, give GGG lateral movement, make him pay for reaching like a good boxer does I think he takes a decision victory.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Just ignore all my points for some ignorant shit.
> 
> Oh well, agree to disagree


Your "points" are muddled up in an immature rant with name calling. You choose to post like a 16yo brat, expect to be treated like one.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

HumansSuck said:


> One thing I think people overlook is that while Canelo was easy to find at 147 that is no guarantee he will be easy to find at 160.
> 
> We know historically speaking that as a boxer moves up in weight they usually have a speed advantage on their bigger opponent. Golovkin is used to fighting middleweights. Big guys who he can maneuver around and land precise hard shots on.
> 
> ...


You make some good points. But one thing that will be a huge factor in my opinion is, Canelo is not quick on his feet, while GGG is excellent and cutting off the ring and attacking from angles.


----------



## HumansSuck (Nov 4, 2015)

Mal said:


> You make some good points. But one thing that will be a huge factor in my opinion is, Canelo is not quick on his feet, while GGG is excellent and cutting off the ring and attacking from angles.


I don't know how much the recent fights have influenced you ( the Kirkland fight comes to mind ) but I think he's intentionally sat down and fought some of these guys because he didn't respect their ability to hurt and stop him.

The Mayweather fight convinced me that Canelo can box. He chooses not to I think because he can get away with it and grow some popularity doing it. I do not think he does that against GGG though.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

HumansSuck said:


> I don't know how much the recent fights have influenced you ( the Kirkland fight comes to mind ) but I think he's intentionally sat down and fought some of these guys because he didn't respect their ability to hurt and stop him.
> 
> The Mayweather fight convinced me that Canelo can box. He chooses not to I think because he can get away with it and grow some popularity doing it. I do not think he does that against GGG though.


Seen all his fights since he first got on HBO. He's too flatfooted IMO. Certainly doesn't mean he can't improve of course. And he definitely will have to improve on that aspect if he wants to beat GGG.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> 155 - 160 is middleweight.


No it's not if you have to come in under 160.
Do you hate me again turbo? I'm sure I liked a post of yours earlier and I apologise if I'm mistaken but it's like you've done a 180 on this one


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

HumansSuck said:


> One thing I think people overlook is that while Canelo was easy to find at 147 that is no guarantee he will be easy to find at 160........


Canelo has painfully slow feet.



HumansSuck said:


> Golovkin is used to fighting middleweights. Big guys who he can maneuver around and land precise hard shots on. The big question is what will he do when he can't find the guy to land those punches on?


Willie Monroe Jr moves very well, and is very hard to hit. Golovkin played with him like it was a sparring session. You are VASTLY underrating Golovkin's ability to control the ring.

Canelo does have incredibly good defensive head movement, and this will serve him well against Golovkin, so he has a small chance of winning via KO. - But he'll have to absorb some incredible punishment to pull that off. I've seen no evidence that Canelo has a titanium chin.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> 155 - 160 is middleweight.


Correct, and it is a fighter's choice where within that range he weighs in at - NOT his opponent's choice.


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## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

turbotime said:


> 155 - 160 is middleweight.


154.1 is actually middleweight. :hey


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

DB Cooper said:


> Correct, and it is a fighter's choice where within that range he weighs in at - NOT his opponent's choice.


That's the way I've always thought it should be. If one guy wants to come in light, more power to them.


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## DB Cooper (May 17, 2013)

Mal said:


> That's the way I've always thought it should be. If one guy wants to come in light, more power to them.


Agreed, but they shouldn't be able to dictate what weight their opponent comes in at in a world title fight.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Canelo should agree to 160, but insist that Golovkin be blinded in one eye.

It's pretty much the same thing. That's all catchweights are - a way to slightly cripple the bigger man.

Hey, maybe Golovkin could wear 16 oz gloves! That would certainly give Canelo a chance.



Heck, if Golovkin wore 16 oz gloves AND was blinded in one eye, I might even put a few bucks on Canelo! 
(Not a lot, but a few....)


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## HumansSuck (Nov 4, 2015)

Cableaddict said:


> Canelo has painfully slow feet.
> 
> Willie Monroe Jr moves very well, and is very hard to hit. Golovkin played with him like it was a sparring session. You are VASTLY underrating Golovkin's ability to control the ring.
> 
> Canelo does have incredibly good defensive head movement, and this will serve him well against Golovkin, so he has a small chance of winning via KO. - But he'll have to absorb some incredible punishment to pull that off. I've seen no evidence that Canelo has a titanium chin.


You may also be highly overrating Monroe.

Monroe gets some credit for willing to get in with GGG but that's really about it. Decent footwork but slappy counters and not much else. Also if you've seen one of his fights you've seen them all. That's another big problem.

I would be hesitant in comparing Canelo to Monroe in this instance. Yes, Monroe might have better movement than Canelo. That's where it ends though.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> No it's not if you have to come in under 160.
> Do you hate me again turbo? I'm sure I liked a post of yours earlier and I apologise if I'm mistaken but it's like you've done a 180 on this one


I never hated you :lol: You're letting @Hands of Iron get in your head


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

sugarshane_24 said:


> 154.1 is actually middleweight. :hey


153 is middleweight if the only stipulation is an upper limit of 160. There is no lower limit in professional boxing so a fighter may weigh in at 152 if they so wish.


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## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

JamieC said:


> 153 is middleweight if the only stipulation is an upper limit of 160. There is no lower limit in professional boxing so a fighter may weigh in at 152 if they so wish.


Reminds me of the time Pac was getting flak from a few for fighting Cotto at 145.

I see some folks who took it as an issue are defending Canelo this time.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Reminds me of the time Pac was getting flak from a few for fighting Cotto at 145.
> 
> I see some folks who took it as an issue are defending Canelo this time.


I think catchweights should only be used when offered by the bigger fighter when he's calling someone out. If GGG was calling out Canelo when he was at 154 I'd have said a catchweight is fair, but now Canelo is a champion at 160 and GGG is his mandatory a catchweight is bullshit


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## TFG (Jul 23, 2013)

HumansSuck said:


> One thing I think people overlook is that while Canelo was easy to find at 147 that is no guarantee he will be easy to find at 160.
> 
> We know historically speaking that as a boxer moves up in weight they usually have a speed advantage on their bigger opponent. Golovkin is used to fighting middleweights. Big guys who he can maneuver around and land precise hard shots on.
> 
> ...


Very good point.

Almost every single fighter GGG has fought has been a sitting duck and wide open for his attacks. His power looks destructive because he's able to land it consistently every round, against guys who aren't exactly renowned for avoiding shots. Munroe is the closest thing he has fought to a defensive specialist, even though he is a very poor one, and it lead to the most problems GGG has faced thus far. We haven't see him fight someone an elite fighter full stop, never mind an elite fighter who specializes in making you miss.

Canelo's head movement and overall defense is very good, especially at dealing with combinations. Cotto is a similar speed to GGG and Canelo blocked the majority of his combinations, the only success he had was when he doubled and tripled his jab, which will probably be GGG's most effective tool too. He's not going to be teeing off left hooks and setting up big right hands like he did against Lemeuix. That power isn't going to look as good when it's landing in single figures and hitting gloves all night.


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