# KTFO 6 - Marquez just a Roider



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

We're talking Memo-trained Marquez. Marquez all of a sudden comes with this bodybuilding looking body with a questionable gut and quite tellingly, the sudden chest acne that he's never had problems with before. All of these added together, add the fact that roid specialist Victor Conte, feels that he was roiding.

















RECENTLY, another MEMO-TRAINED fighter has had that same chest acne all of a sudden when he never used to (someone tell me his name I forgot).

- It's not hard to put two and two together - I certainly do that and I call my own shots. Don't get on the defensive, guys. It's not easy when your childhood idol isn't the model sportsman like you wanted to believe.

I don't think they even had Olympic style blood and urine testing either for that fight - if they didn't then fuck it. VADA or whatever bullshit it's called is NOT enough. This is the big leagues, stringent measures must be made in a league full of cheats.

Now:
1. This undoubtedly would then have an effect on his performance.
2. You may bring up the argument I used to bring up, 'look at Marquez's training clips, he trained for the shot that knocked Pacquiao down in one of the earlier rounds and we know Marquez is about timing and that it doesn't matter roided or not, Marquez would have knocked Pacquiao out with KTFO punch or a punch later down the line in the fight'...BUT

a. We don't know the future, maybe Marquez could have ended up knocking Pacquiao out but this may have taken more than 12 rounds to do it, so the fight in effect turns to a decision (Pacquiao was outboxing Marquez up until KTFO 6 that's for sure).

b. Whether Marquez would have knocked Pacquiao out or not is irrelevant as Marquez has taken away the glory of the KO because of his ROIDacity.

Conclusion:
Marquez KTFO6 has become an NC in my book and Pacquiao's legacy is not harmed.
Marquez's legacy comes under question and I do not give him ANY props for his win over Pacquiao.
If you were a Floyd hater and Floyd had the same circumstances, you would be hating on Floyd ASAP. I'm not hating on Marquez, I liked Marquez a lot, but this is pure Roidery.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

I don't want to hear no 'innocent till proven guilty' bs - we haven't even got the sufficient tools to prove who's guilty and who's not :lol: or at least, we didn't implement them for this fight. You can make your own personal judgement though.


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## Nucking Futs (Jul 12, 2013)

And who says Manny wasn't on the juice throughout his career when he blitzed through bigger men in a questionable fashion, downing some Ariza special shakes & with Roach having a dubious past involving his fighters & roids.

It's not hard to put two & two together & don't want to hear no innocent until proven guilty bs


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## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

Stop taking undefeated_gaul seriously anymore. Check. Move on to the next thread. Check.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> And who says Manny wasn't on the juice throughout his career when he blitzed through bigger men in a questionable fashion, downing some Ariza special shakes & with Roach having a dubious past involving his fighters & roids.
> 
> It's not hard to put two & two together & don't want to hear no innocent until proven guilty bs


This isn't about Manny in that case, this is about Marquez. I'm not letting people trash other fighters here and divert the focus from the childhood society hero Juan Manuel Marquez.



genaro g said:


> Stop taking undefeated_gaul seriously anymore. Check. Move on to the next thread. Check.


I know what I'm talking about, I don't chat shit. I'm not trying to troll, I'm just calling shots and you're crying about it especially given your name here is 'genaro'.


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## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

What? Lol.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

genaro g said:


> What? Lol.


There's no grounds for saying you can't take me seriously for this post. The evidence has mounted up and speaks for itself. No need to be naive.


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

If MArquez is a roider then Pacquiao is most likely as well. And this whole situation just shows how ridiculous the world of boxing is everyone accuses anyone even Pacquiao's team who had the same accusations thrown at them do it with Marquez. 
YOu know what most likely a ton of these guys are on steroids and still accuse others so why the fuck make stupid threads about someone who never tested positive when your favourite fighter could very well be on steroids


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## Nucking Futs (Jul 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> This isn't about Manny in that case, this is about Marquez. I'm not letting people trash other fighters here and divert the focus from the childhood society hero Juan Manuel Marquez.
> 
> Well it could involve Manny quite easily as he fought Marquez on 4 separate occasions & when you put two & two together & come to the obvious conclusion that Manny was on the peds then that again obviously must mean that he was on the juice when he fought Marquez in the fights which pre-date the knock out you have brought into question.
> 
> ...


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## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> There's no grounds for saying you can't take me seriously for this post. The evidence has mounted up and speaks for itself. No need to be naive.


Whats my name have anything to do with that?


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Marquez is 100% juicing. Many others are as well, but JMM hasn't faced that level of scrutiny because he's universally adored by boxing fans (myself included)


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> If MArquez is a roider then Pacquiao is most likely as well. And this whole situation just shows how ridiculous the world of boxing is everyone accuses anyone even Pacquiao's team who had the same accusations thrown at them do it with Marquez.
> YOu know what most likely a ton of these guys are on steroids and still accuse others so why the fuck make stupid threads about someone who never tested positive when your favourite fighter could very well be on steroids


I hope I'm not coming on too strong here with people, I'll tone down.

As for your post, I'm not really going to comment about Pacquiao as the focus should really be on Marquez. Its always diverted and Pacquiao is society's punchbag in roid conversation. I feel tables have now turned.

'Why make stupid threads about someone who never tested positive?' - Because the grounds for 'testing' was flawed for this crucial fight.

Lomachenko had Olympic style testing all his life.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

genaro g said:


> Whats my name have anything to do with that?


Because if I look into your history you seem to have a tireless support for Mexican fighters and a Mexican name is your username.
You cant run away from this anymore, Marquez is not getting away with it anymore.



Nucking Futs said:


> [This isn't about Manny in that case, this is about Marquez. I'm not letting people trash other fighters here and divert the focus from the childhood society hero Juan Manuel Marquez.
> 
> Well it could involve Manny quite easily as he fought Marquez on 4 separate occasions & when you put two & two together & come to the obvious conclusion that Manny was on the peds then that again obviously must mean that he was on the juice when he fought Marquez in the fights which pre-date the knock out you have brought into question.
> 
> ...


This is a thread about Marquez. If it's a thread about Marquez's roidness its not a thread where you piss on Manny. We have no glaring evidence right now that Pacquiao was roiding for that fight, and it doesn't make it excusable. Massacring the professional game.

To say he's NOT roiding is also speculative bollocks and we can't just see the evidence and disregard it, we need to have a bit of fucking nuts (see what I did there :hey ) to make our own judgement.



Flea Man said:


> Marquez is 100% juicing. Many others are as well, but JMM hasn't faced that level of scrutiny because he's universally adored by boxing fans (myself included)


Yeah I adore Marquez too, but I adore impartiality and non-bias that extra bit more. It's the same reason why I defended Mayweather over Arguello even though I feel like a dirty slutwhore for doing so.


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## Nucking Futs (Jul 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Because if I look into your history you seem to have a tireless support for Mexican fighters and a Mexican name is your username.
> You cant run away from this anymore, Marquez is not getting away with it anymore.
> 
> This is a thread about Marquez. If it's a thread about Marquez's roidness its not a thread where you piss on Manny. We have no glaring evidence right now that Pacquiao was roiding for that fight, and it doesn't make it excusable. Massacring the professional game.
> ...


You're absolutely correct that is also speculative bollocks, that was kind of the point


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

It's not about Pacquaio but Manny's legacy is not harmed and the KO is now a NC?

Don't start discrediting the win then say "it's not about Manny" when he is probably THE #1 suspect for roiding that hasn't been caught.

You open a door then you can't complain when people walk in.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> You're absolutely correct that is also speculative bollocks, that was kind of the point


It's very easy to dismiss it as 'speculative bollocks', but really when there's legit evidence. Don't be too scared to make a judgement.


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## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

Id say the same thing if he wasnt mexican. If it was anybody id say the same thing. Just goes to show what kind of low and ignorant individual you are to accuse me of bias based off of my ethnicity. Id defend any fighter regardless of race or color. Can hardly call it defending them as all i did was laugh at you. Cause thats what you deserve, is to be laughed at if you think youre going to change anybodys opinion, let alone make a difference. Petty little man you are. Lol.


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I hope I'm not coming on too strong here with people, I'll tone down.
> 
> As for your post, I'm not really going to comment about Pacquiao as the focus should really be on Marquez. Its always diverted and Pacquiao is society's punchbag in roid conversation. I feel tables have now turned.
> 
> ...


The testing is flawed for most fighters high level testing costs too much money at least mroe than promoters and whatever are willing to pay also many fighters want to save face by claiming they want stricter tests but in reality might just say that to be the good guy in the eye of the public. 
In reality there would need to be olympic style testing for every boxer in the top 25 (if we are reaslitic) or in a perfect world top 50 or top 10 of his division. Along with random drug testing done by the countries (whichever country the boxer is from) commision for ALL pros and for all high level amateurs and they would have to work together with commisions in other countries so that they would test boxers who train in another country than their own.
Also even Olympic style testing isn't perfect the top 10 sprinters in the world or probably all 100 m guyscompeting in the olympic games are probably on steroids. Or would you believe that tyson Gay really just "trusted the wrong person" and took something illegal without knowing? No he was on steroids his whole career and became the 2nd fastest man ever that way and only got caught 1 year ago, Yohan Blake also failed a test and has since been able to pass the tests and Asafa Powell has most likely also been on steroids his whole career and only got caught 1 year ago. So how likely is it that Bolt is clean?
And now we're at another issue: countries/commisions (and of course promoters) who don't want to test their guys of course they pretend they want hard testing because they have to but do they really? The Jamaican whatever athletic commision who tests their athletes such as Bolt sure as hell don#t want their countries' stars to test positive neither do promoters so they sure as hell won't even try everything in their power to get everyone.
The most obvious example of that beside the jamaican track and field team is probably the NFL seriously who believes that more than maybe 5% of the guys in the NFL are clean? Their testing is a joke and highschool football athletes (at least the ones with talent and a possible future) are already juiced to their eyeballs I'm not sure you even can compete at any level in the NFL without steroids and of course they say they test everyone but who believes that shit their tests are laughable and some still manage to test positive.
Another example is everyon when one of those clinics who provide athletes with steroids gets busted everytime it happens there are big names that get exposed and most of them have neevr tested positive. 
"EVan Fields", Gamboa, in the UFC Shane carwin, some high level baseballers and other athletes (among them MMA fighters) whose names haven't even been released yet and who knows if they ever will.
Then you have Conte claiming to work with athletes in a legit way but working with guys like Andre Ward and the real high level guys in boxing and other sports. 
What makes it actually worse is that they all claim that everyone gets tested and blablbla even the WWE because they have to and some people really believe what they say and are shocked if someone they know tests positive when in reality the clean high level athletes are probably a minority and in some sports such as (american) football most likely a really really really really small minority


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> It's not about Pacquaio but Manny's legacy is not harmed and the KO is now a NC?
> 
> Don't start discrediting the win then say "it's not about Manny" when he is probably THE #1 suspect for roiding that hasn't been caught.
> 
> You open a door then you can't complain when people walk in.


If they're both roiding, then the match is an NC. He has been suspicious in the past, but there hasn't been one fight of his that is more suspicious than the Marquez of this fight.

People also seem to forget such thing as agendas and rhetoric:


Spoiler



1. Manny weighed the same as Mayweather pretty much growing up, there's a chart somewhere online that demonstrates this, but Manny was just more of the weight cutter. Manny's diet, training regime also wasn't as advanced as it became when his career started and was well underway with Freddie Roach.

2. Manny has a different kind of power than someone like Mayweather, I know this is not entirely accurate but it's more 'Golovkin-like' dare I say, so seeing that go up the divisions is not so much of a surprise. Manny has ATG offence. It's not a regular fighter going up weight divisions.

3. Freddie Roach and Ariza have such a feud and Roach has always had questionable character and integrity, I'm not ENTIRELY surprised that Roach would throw in a comment about Ariza's so-called 'shakes'.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> It's not about Pacquaio but Manny's legacy is not harmed and the KO is now a NC?
> 
> Don't start discrediting the win then say "it's not about Manny" when he is probably THE #1 suspect for roiding that hasn't been caught.
> 
> You open a door then you can't complain when people walk in.


When I say it, I'm not discrediting Marquez.

It says a lot that people were quick to discredit Pacquiao though.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Manny may well have been on EPO. His stamina and output was ridiculous. 

Marquez probably synthetic testosterone or HGH. Looked clean for what, 15 odd years? Only post-Floyd that his physicality changed.


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

where were you when manny was wrecking dudes? now that he's no longer juicing, his power is all but gone. he ended margarito's career, brutalized cotto, humiliated mosley and battered erik morales into submission. he's responsible for the biggest fight in the history of the sport not happening because he refused to agree to more thorough drug testing. why wasnt your ****** ass complaining back then? i'm glad he got knocked out like that. he deserved it. and i really hope marquez was on peds when he did it.


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

He put that boy to sleep.


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## TSOL (Dec 15, 2013)

wouldn't shock me. but people speculate about pac as well.

and the chest acne pic is from the alvarado fight


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

PivotPunch said:


> The testing is flawed for most fighters high level testing costs too much money at least mroe than promoters and whatever are willing to pay also many fighters want to save face by claiming they want stricter tests but in reality might just say that to be the good guy in the eye of the public.
> In reality there would need to be olympic style testing for every boxer in the top 25 (if we are reaslitic) or in a perfect world top 50 or top 10 of his division. Along with random drug testing done by the countries (whichever country the boxer is from) commision for ALL pros and for all high level amateurs and they would have to work together with commisions in other countries so that they would test boxers who train in another country than their own.
> Also even Olympic style testing isn't perfect the top 10 sprinters in the world or probably all 100 m guyscompeting in the olympic games are probably on steroids. Or would you believe that tyson Gay really just "trusted the wrong person" and took something illegal without knowing? No he was on steroids his whole career and became the 2nd fastest man ever that way and only got caught 1 year ago, Yohan Blake also failed a test and has since been able to pass the tests and Asafa Powell has most likely also been on steroids his whole career and only got caught 1 year ago. So how likely is it that Bolt is clean?
> And now we're at another issue: countries/commisions (and of course promoters) who don't want to test their guys of course they pretend they want hard testing because they have to but do they really? The Jamaican whatever athletic commision who tests their athletes such as Bolt sure as hell don#t want their countries' stars to test positive neither do promoters so they sure as hell won't even try everything in their power to get everyone.
> ...


Thanks for the response. 
I totally get your point and was educational cheers.

...Although I would say that to avoid going into hyper-speculation (which is kind of what I'm being accused of here in this thread when it's not), we should make our judgement on what it means to be 'innocent'. A cut-off point for speculation as you will. Olympic style testing is safe despite the few hiccups. Gay was still caught out though and I would say that we shouldn't have our cut-off point and leave it there, that wouldn't be appropriate action to such a thing, we'd need to continue to enhance the stringency of testing.

Unfortunately there are economic and political agendas to try and dodge such a thing as you'd mentioned but with the growing stringency of testing we know which tests we can give full weighting to.

_Where the physiological effects of doping is apparent, all of what you have written can be used to make the case for Marquez's roidance stronger. 
_
It sucks for me because some fighters who I really liked in history seem to be roiders and so I can't give them full credit like I'd want to, thats the truth of it.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

I've said for several years here and at the old place;
Show me a steroid that can make you punch harder and I'll buy it by the truckload.

As for the three previous fights,well we know that 2 of them were questionable decisions,but as we know that JMM wasn't juicing and Pacquaio probably was,does that mean the record stands at 3 wins for Marquez and one NC?


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## Nucking Futs (Jul 12, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> When I say it, I'm not discrediting Marquez.
> 
> It says a lot that people were quick to discredit Pacquiao though.


I wasn't trying to discredit Manny, merely used him to prove a point


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## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Marquez is 100% juicing. Many others are as well, but JMM hasn't faced that level of scrutiny because he's universally adored by boxing fans (myself included)


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> When I say it, I'm not discrediting Marquez.
> 
> It says a lot that people were quick to discredit Pacquiao though. Manny may well have been on EPO. His stamina and output was ridiculous.
> 
> Marquez probably synthetic testosterone or HGH. Looked clean for what, 15 odd years? Only post-Floyd that his physicality changed.


It appears that seems to be the jerk-response trend on this thread, too. Paranoia has been cultivated over the years almost to point of no return.
I'm not trying to affirm or deny the idea that Manny may have been on something...and his stamina especially in his earlier Roach days were almost anomalous.



Trash Bags said:


> where were you when manny was wrecking dudes? now that he's no longer juicing, his power is all but gone. he ended margarito's career, brutalized cotto, humiliated mosley and battered erik morales into submission. he's responsible for the biggest fight in the history of the sport not happening because he refused to agree to more thorough drug testing. why wasnt your ****** ass complaining back then? i'm glad he got knocked out like that. he deserved it. and i really hope marquez was on peds when he did it.


Why the animosity? This is not about Manny Pacquiao's career back in 2003. This is about Marquez of December 2012. Whether I was complaining or not about the Floyd-Manny drug testing saga has no relevance here.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> I've said for several years here and at the old place;
> Show me a steroid that can make you punch harder and I'll buy it by the truckload.
> 
> As for the three previous fights,well we know that 2 of them were questionable decisions,but as we know that JMM wasn't juicing and Pacquaio probably was,does that mean the record stands at 3 wins for Marquez and one NC?


This is the direct response to the first part of your post (it was from the first post in my thread but you need to use it for your point):


Spoiler



1. This undoubtedly would then have an effect on his performance.
2. You may bring up the argument I used to bring up, 'look at Marquez's training clips, he trained for the shot that knocked Pacquiao down in one of the earlier rounds and we know Marquez is about timing and that it doesn't matter roided or not, Marquez would have knocked Pacquiao out with KTFO punch or a punch later down the line in the fight'...BUT

a. We don't know the future, maybe Marquez could have ended up knocking Pacquiao out but this may have taken more than 12 rounds to do it, so the fight in effect turns to a decision (Pacquiao was outboxing Marquez up until KTFO 6 that's for sure).

b. Whether Marquez would have knocked Pacquiao out or not is irrelevant as Marquez has taken away the glory of the KO because of his ROIDacity.


--------
So the first part of your post is an incorrect way of addressing this situation.

Again, this is not about Manny and Marquez's history, which btw, anyone who says 3-0 either way is correct when we're talking strictly _point scoring in the fight, not drug testing stuff in the background_. There has been too many posts in history saying 'but Marquez won 2-1 ya ******' and vice versa, all fruitless and neither more correct than the other.

Before we start saying Pacquiao was 'probably roiding' we should at least be able to accept that it's most likely Marquez was roiding for the 4th fight and it should more likely be an NC.

I'm not afraid to make the judgement and say flat out I believe Marquez was roiding in this sport with flawed testing, based on the evidence I have.


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## Nucking Futs (Jul 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> It appears that seems to be the jerk-response trend on this thread, too. Paranoia has been cultivated over the years almost to point of no return.
> I'm not trying to affirm or deny the idea that Manny may have been on something...and his stamina especially in his earlier Roach days were almost anomalous.
> 
> Why the animosity? This is not about Manny Pacquiao's career back in 2003. This is about Marquez of December 2012. Whether I was complaining or not about the Floyd-Manny drug testing saga has no relevance here.


It's not really a knee jerk response though take into account that you use a fight involving the guy in your op, it's not exactly a read between the lines sort of thing.

Had you left out the bit about the Manny knock out and focussed on the rest then you could claim knee jerk, can't do that when you brought the guy up first, as @PityTheFool already said you opened the door.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> It's not really a knee jerk response though take into account that you use a fight involving the guy in your op, it's not exactly a read between the lines sort of thing.
> 
> Had you left out the bit about the Manny knock out and focussed on the rest then you could claim knee jerk, can't do that when you brought the guy up first, as @PityTheFool already said you opened the door.


I've already successfully responded to PityTheFool's response.

If they were both roiding, it's an NC, if one of them are roiding it's an NC. The attention is diverted from the very direct points I'm making regarding Marquez, by talking about Pacquiao - that's fallacious in of itself btw.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> but as we know that JMM wasn't juicing and Pacquaio probably was


Why are you taking this stance mate? Is this fair?


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> This is the direct response to the first part of your post (it was from the first post in my thread but you need to use it for your point):
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Listen,there's no need to put those spoilers in mate.The previous one you posted,with all due respect,meant little to me.
But you can't start a thread saying "Manny's legacy is not harmed and it's a NC"

I'm afraid it is and it wasn't.Fact.
Look at Amir Khan.I genuinely believe that he is a clean fighter,but as is the natural way of things,his power has decreased through the weights.
I'm having a great deal of difficulty believing that a flyweight can move through the weights and be knocking out light welters.
But here's the thing,the punches that caught Hatton and Pacquaio are the sort of clean punches that if connected,most elite boxers would land a KO.Openings meaning a straight shot bang on the chin and they would probably deck guys at 160.
Don't say there's clear evidence that JMM is juicing as if there's not a case that's at least as strong to be made against Pacquaio.
Not everyone who takes steroids gets acne on their chest,and it's often found on the back with more frequency than on the chest.

There's at least as much of a case against Pacquaio if not more.And if you say there's not,then we don't know that JMM wasn't just shaving his chest and those are caused by a sweat rash post-shave.
You really think spots on his chest alone is proof that he's juicing?
And I'm ready with a counter argument for any other points like Conte.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

In May of 1980, Feyenoord had to concede another championship to their great rivals Ajax. Both clubs were a pale shadow of their all-conquering 1970 sides, but Ajax at least had managed to win the league. Feyenoord had ended a disappointing fourth. But there was one chance to reclaim some glory. The Dutch Cup final. Played in Feyenoord’s own De Kuip. The opponent? Ajax. After an energetic match, Feyenoord won 3-1. Thirty years later, Former Feyenoord forward Jan Peters confessed that his team used doping.

"We received all kinds of stuff before important matches. A cup with a drink, a pill, and a needle that went into my upper arm. I have no idea what it was. I didn’t care. But ten minutes into the game I felt a boost h.of energy. After the game, far into the night, I was still doing back flips in the discotheque. That’s how fit I was. Later in Belgium, Spain and Portugal I took stuff as well."

Doping is not just about being able to punch harder or whatever, it simply gives you a boost of energy that doesn't run out.
You don't get tired and your coordination doesn't drop. You'll be lethal through all 12 rounds.

Imagine if George Foreman got that stuff against Ali, he'd still be swinging punches.

If 2 boxers are in a high activity fight and one of the boxers is still looking fresh and sharp in the later rounds you can suspect he's on the stuff.


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> It appears that seems to be the jerk-response trend on this thread, too. Paranoia has been cultivated over the years almost to point of no return.
> I'm not trying to affirm or deny the idea that Manny may have been on something...and his stamina especially in his earlier Roach days were almost anomalous.
> 
> I don't understand why you're trying to discredit Marquez' win over Pacquiao while ignoring the fact that Manny was probably on the juice himself. If you're talking about Marquez' win over Manny, it's kind of hard not to bring the man and his accomplishments u. It's sort of like saying that a thief stealing from another thief is wrong, which I guess it is, but it's just.
> ...


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Why are you taking this stance mate? Is this fair?


I was being sarcastic mate.
When Pacquaio was getting the decisions,a lot less people were concerned about what Marquez was doing.

I was trying to show the stance that's being taken by the OP here.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I've already successfully responded to PityTheFool's response.
> 
> If they were both roiding, it's an NC, if one of them are roiding it's an NC. The attention is diverted from the very direct points I'm making regarding Marquez, by talking about Pacquiao - that's fallacious in of itself btw.


Whoa tiger!
You responded successfully in your own opinion.You haven't succeeded with fuck all against me.
Don't start using your opinion to make out you've shot me down.
You've done nothing of the sort.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> I was being sarcastic mate.
> When Pacquaio was getting the decisions,a lot less people were concerned about what Marquez was doing.
> 
> I was trying to show the stance that's being taken by the OP here.


Okay, I get you.


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## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

I have always paid attention, in great detail, to the training camps before i give a prediction and the first thing i made a point about was that Marquez was taking his s&c conditioning seriously and Pacquiao wasnt. That was my very first point. For a fact, he completely ignored Ariza's strength and conditioning program and focused primarily on just the boxing with Freddie. That we do know. This was also noticeable prior to the first Bradley bout as Freddie and Ariza began to drift apart. So if that means Marquez took his steroid program seriously and Pacquiao didnt, then so be it. 

Conte, Ariza and Memo, they all have the same backround and education in the science of strength and conditioning. The fact is Marquez took that 4th fight VERY seriously, and prepared himself in a way that Pacquiao should have. And thats to stick with the s&c program. Pacquiao hasnt looked the same since the first Bradley fight. Stamina is not the same nor is his explosiveness. Thats why i said Pacquiao would get stopped in that 4th Marquez fight. Is it roids or just extremely effective strength and conditioning. Maybe its both. I dont know. But fact of the matter is, if Marquez was roiding for that fight, at some point, so was Pacquiao. You'd really have to be a fool to believe otherwise. Since i have no proof either way, ill just say theyre taking whatever legal supplements and doing the correct type of training, plyometrics, weight-lifting, recovery that is legally permitted, otherwise, from what ive read, they have to be flat-out cheating, injecting or using a cream to get the type of results we have been seeing. Without proof and knowing what type of men/fighters they are, i refuse to believe the latter.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Listen,there's no need to put those spoilers in mate.The previous one you posted,with all due respect,meant little to me.
> But you can't start a thread saying "Manny's legacy is not harmed and it's a NC"
> 
> I'm afraid it is and it wasn't.Fact.
> ...


I put in those spoilers because I've already posted it before on this thread, just make it look a little neater. 
It can't mean little to you because it's 'how it is'. You falsely approached this topic saying 'show me a roid that can increase punching power' - that's not what I was defending.

Maybe my point was written in a clear way, what I am trying to say is that Manny's legacy would have been harmed by a KTFO 6 loss against Marquez compared to what it would be if it was discounted and called an NC.

The shaving theory lacks plausibility given the other factors around the case including Marquez's big ass gut, and given the fact that some other boxing veteran (I honestly forgot who and I'm still waiting for someone to be like 'it's this guy') has recently had the same chest acne breakout - something he's never had, and he's actually been Memo-training of late. It doesn't help the case that there were no stringent testing. Just throwing in some rhetoric there: Question a man who's willing to drink his own piss.

Is this all just a beautiful coincidence? I'm not buying the innocence part.

I can believe Manny's power more than I can believe Marquez was clean in the 4th fight against Pacquiao, for all of the reasons I've given - it all adds up to the extent that I wouldn't call it so farfetched. But again, I give no shit for Manny's power. I am talking about how dodgy Marquez looks and it's enough for me to throw my hands up and say 'Marquez is a Roidistani'. I mentioned the nature of Manny's power, the fact that Manny was a serial weight-cutter (look at the difference between him and Sasakul :rofl ) and the fact that Roach needs to be respected as a top trainer who can get the best out of fighters offense - with Pacman having ATG offense anyway, hence why it's not entirely accurate to compare him to Khan here, and also, Manny came to America with training habits and diets as well as weight-cutting possibilities no way near as advanced as he has now, at the top.



dyna said:


> "In May of 1980, Feyenoord had to concede another championship to their great rivals Ajax. Both clubs were a pale shadow of their all-conquering 1970 sides, but Ajax at least had managed to win the league. Feyenoord had ended a disappointing fourth. But there was one chance to reclaim some glory. The Dutch Cup final. Played in Feyenoord's own De Kuip. The opponent? Ajax. After an energetic match, Feyenoord won 3-1. Thirty years later, Former Feyenoord forward Jan Peters confessed that his team used doping."
> 
> Doping is not just about being able to punch harder or whatever, it simply gives you a boost of energy that doesn't run out.
> You don't get tired and your coordination doesn't drop. You'll be lethal through all 12 rounds.
> ...


Exactly, it's completely downplayed these days but is a crime.



PityTheFool said:


> Whoa tiger!
> You responded successfully in your own opinion.You haven't succeeded with fuck all against me.
> Don't start using your opinion to make out you've shot me down.
> You've done nothing of the sort.


No shooting, the answers are literally in the responses. They're not debatable points either.

EDIT: America, not Thailand


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

IMO he was juicing but I also think Manny, Floyd, Wlad, Vitali, Haye etc etc have all juiced as well. Most top athletes are juicing (not just boxing, near all sports) and have been for decades.


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## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

Chatty said:


> IMO he was juicing but I also think Manny, Floyd, Wlad, Vitali, Haye etc etc have all juiced as well. Most top athletes are juicing (not just boxing, near all sports) and have been for decades.


That's my view in a nutshell.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I put in those spoilers because I've already posted it before on this thread, just make it look a little neater.
> It can't mean little to you because it's 'how it is'. You falsely approached this topic saying 'show me a roid that can increase punching power' - that's not what I was defending.
> 
> Maybe my point was written in a clear way, what I am trying to say is that Manny's legacy would have been harmed by a KTFO 6 loss against Marquez compared to what it would be if it was discounted and called an NC.
> ...


Man,you're very bad for taking things way too literally and I'm realising again why people find it hard to debate with you.
You really think the shaving thing was a serious argument that he's not juicing? I'm saying that without proper evidence it holds about as much weight as your argument.
You have nothing that can't be countered in the same way against Manny and your comment about piss just shows where you're really coming from.
Bear Grylls drinks his own piss.You want to use that as an argument that he doesn't genuinely know how to look after himself?

I'm actually bored with this already.
"Manny's legacy isn't harmed and it's a NC but don't try and make this thread about Manny"
It's actually laughable,but debating with you is anything but when you try to use my comment about shaving as if I was using that the same way you use your opinion and try to pass it off as fact.
There's enough reason to believe (if you use your type of logic) that Manny was juicing for at least two of the fights.

Proper conclusion?
Manny got knocked the fuck out.His legacy is harmed and it is not a NC.

Your opinion on this now means less than nothing to me.
I have facts on my side.:smile


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

All this and the guy is apparently too scared of needles to have blood taken 2 or 3 weeks out?

The debate was a non-starter and I should have known better than to take the bait.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

shaunster101 said:


> That's my view in a nutshell.


Same as.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Man,you're very bad for taking things way too literally and I'm realising again why people find it hard to debate with you.
> You really think the shaving thing was a serious argument that he's not juicing? I'm saying that without proper evidence it holds about as much weight as your argument.
> You have nothing that can't be countered in the same way against Manny and your comment about piss just shows where you're really coming from.
> Bear Grylls drinks his own piss.You want to use that as an argument that he doesn't genuinely know how to look after himself?
> ...


Some points aren't up for debate, they're literally just statements. It's not easy to debate things that aren't meant for debate.
There's no point of mentioning the shaving thing then tbh because there are some that'll be willing to throw that shit out there. 
It doesn't hold as much weight as my argument because of the other actors I mentioned, the shaving theory just lacks explanatory power that the roiding has.
Bear Grylls drinks his own piss :rofl Bear Grylls is badass, it was just more a comment thrown out there for humour, but I would say he used it for survival specifically.

I already clarified what I meant by this statement: 
"Manny's legacy isn't harmed and it's a NC but don't try and make this thread about Manny"
when I said:
"what I am trying to say is that Manny's legacy would have been harmed by a KTFO 6 loss against Marquez compared to what it would be if it was discounted and called an NC. "
- Given the evidence we have and the FACT of the no stringent testing in a tainted sport, I'm not naive. I'm making my own judgement, I'm inviting others not to be too scared. Some people are so scared that out of fear they're saying 'Marquez, have your win I will not question it'.

Someone who says 'Trinidad beat DLH' can say 'I have the facts on my side'. Fuck the quasi-facts.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Exactly, it's completely downplayed these days but is a crime.
> EDIT: America, not Thailand


Shit, I accidentally added the same text twice.
I meant to quote this as evidence that PEDs can give you immense energy boosts
"We received all kinds of stuff before important matches. A cup with a drink, a pill, and a needle that went into my upper arm. I have no idea what it was. I didn't care. But ten minutes into the game I felt a boost h.of energy. After the game, far into the night, I was still doing back flips in the discotheque. That's how fit I was. Later in Belgium, Spain and Portugal I took stuff as well."


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

dyna said:


> Shit, I accidentally added the same text twice.
> I meant to quote this as evidence that PEDs can give you immense energy boosts
> "We received all kinds of stuff before important matches. A cup with a drink, a pill, and a needle that went into my upper arm. I have no idea what it was. I didn't care. But ten minutes into the game I felt a boost h.of energy.* After the game, far into the night, I was still doing back flips in the discotheque*. That's how fit I was. Later in Belgium, Spain and Portugal I took stuff as well."


:rofl


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Some points aren't up for debate, they're literally just statements. It's not easy to debate things that aren't meant for debate.
> There's no point of mentioning the shaving thing then tbh because there are some that'll be willing to throw that shit out there.
> It doesn't hold as much weight as my argument because of the other actors I mentioned, the shaving theory just lacks explanatory power that the roiding has.
> Bear Grylls drinks his own piss :rofl Bear Grylls is badass, it was just more a comment thrown out there for humour, but I would say he used it for survival specifically.
> ...


Listen,please make your response brief as I won't have time to keep addressing long posts and I don't want to look like I'm avoiding subjects,but my whole point here is that there is no more evidence that JMM was using PEDs than there is for Manny.
Anything you say can be batted out the park by Manny's stance of "You can punch my head off for 12 rounds if you think you're good enough,but don't be sending some phlebotomist with a weave and a big ass round to the Wildcard to put a little needle in my arm two weeks out"

Are they both guilty? Possibly.I don't know.
Was the emphatic KO the result of either of them using PEDs? No chance.
End of story.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Listen,please make your response brief as I won't have time to keep addressing long posts and I don't want to look like I'm avoiding subjects,but my whole point here is that there is no more evidence that JMM was using PEDs than there is for Manny.
> Anything you say can be batted out the park by Manny's stance of "You can punch my head off for 12 rounds if you think you're good enough,but don't be sending some phlebotomist with a weave and a big ass round to the Wildcard to put a little needle in my arm two weeks out"
> 
> Are they both guilty? Possibly.I don't know.
> ...


I'm concerned about Marquez here, whereby the evidence seems apparent that he's roiding and as a side-note, evidence seems more so that Marquez was roiding in 4th fight than Manny in the 4th fight, that's an irrelevant point though. It doesn't make it ok that Manny may be roiding as I've said countless times, if they're both roiding then the fight is a NC and if one of them are roiding, it's an NC, this is not a hardcore WWE match where you can use things external to your own body :lol:

I don't care about Manny's rhetoric from back in the day. You need to be clear of the points I'm actually defending, people right off the bat always assuming I'm defending Manny to the death and hating on Marquez as if I'm a bias Pactard. I'm not. I hate being treated like one in conversations because those I'm met with faulty logic.

No chance? I'm sure there could have been a chance because Roidquez's response rate throughout the fight could be different.


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## Pork N Chili (Jun 3, 2013)

Marquez was on PEDs for the 4th Pacquiao fight and is clearly still on them. You don't go and build muscle like that, especially that rounded, while training for a sport that is mostly cardio based. That's literally the opposite result that you should get.

Still, until he does test positive, there isn't a reason to go and change some of his wins to NCs.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pork N Chili said:


> Marquez was on PEDs for the 4th Pacquiao fight and is clearly still on them. You don't go and build muscle like that, especially that rounded, while training for a sport that is mostly cardio based. That's literally the opposite result that you should get.
> 
> Still, until he does test positive, there isn't a reason to go and change some of his wins to NCs.


Yeah it doesn't make sense. He's a Roidraeli.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> He's a Roidraeli.


:lol:


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:


Roid in the morning, roid in the evening


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I'm concerned about Marquez here, whereby the evidence seems apparent that he's roiding and as a side-note, evidence seems more so that Marquez was roiding in 4th fight than Manny in the 4th fight, that's an irrelevant point though. It doesn't make it ok that Manny may be roiding as I've said countless times, if they're both roiding then the fight is a NC and if one of them are roiding, it's an NC, this is not a hardcore WWE match where you can use things external to your own body :lol:
> 
> I don't care about Manny's rhetoric from back in the day. You need to be clear of the points I'm actually defending, people right off the bat always assuming I'm defending Manny to the death and hating on Marquez as if I'm a bias Pactard. I'm not. I hate being treated like one in conversations because those I'm met with faulty logic.
> 
> No chance? I'm sure there could have been a chance because Roidquez's response rate throughout the fight could be different.


"I'm not hating on Marquez"
"Roidquez"
"What do you expect from a man that drinks his own piss"
No,I think we're all getting the impression that this is just about the fight where he put Manny to sleep.

I've been accused of hating on Manny because I prefer Floyd and JMM,but that doesn't mean I don't like the guy or respect what he's done.You'll have a tough job finding a comment where I'm being nasty about him.Like a lot of sensible older or even just mature fans of Floyd,it's only when fans of Manny's get silly that I'll go negative about him.

Don't pretend you love Marquez or this is just to do with that fight not being a NC,and the Tito-DLH argument doesn't work either because scoring is subjective.Proving one guy's on the juice and the other isn't meaning the KO doesn't count requires proper evidence.
Sorry,but I haven't seen any that would stand up to the level of evidence needed for a minor driving offence.
You still sore and that's all it is.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:


You shouldn't encourage him.That's the only comment he's made that has mildly annoyed me.:nono

Accuse Marquez of what you will,but trying to put him in that group is where it stops being a joke.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> You shouldn't encourage him.That's the only comment he's made that has mildly annoyed me.:nono
> 
> Accuse Marquez of what you will,but trying to put him in that group is where it stops being a joke.


I'm so indifferent to this whole spectacle man, it's mad. I'm not accusing anybody of nada.

The IDF can suck my ass though. Cut off their munitions Immediately.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I'm so indifferent to this whole spectacle man, it's mad. I'm not accusing anybody of nada.
> 
> The IDF can suck my ass though. Cut off their munitions Immediately.


I'd start with their testicles.Not like butchery down there is a real problem.

But that's a whole other story.Time out.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> I'd start with their testicles.Not like butchery down there is a real problem.
> 
> But that's a whole other story.Time out.


Castration talk makes me feel incredibly uneasy.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

KTFO6 was aces.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> "I'm not hating on Marquez"
> "Roidquez"
> "What do you expect from a man that drinks his own piss"
> No,I think we're all getting the impression that this is just about the fight where he put Manny to sleep.
> ...





PityTheFool said:


> You shouldn't encourage him.That's the only comment he's made that has mildly annoyed me.:nono
> 
> Accuse Marquez of what you will,but trying to put him in that group is where it stops being a joke.


Not a serious comment, just the lols.

I do like Marquez, but today I had the epiphany that Marquez is a cheat so I'm not sure anymore. Marquez is a sure cheater. Pacquiao is suspect but I don't love Pac. I only love Loma, Rigo and Khan. Then there's some that I really like, then the others are meh.

I think it's clear to see, that's just my personal position, I'm not making others have the same one, I'm just asking people to call it as they see it. Don't give him the benefit of the doubt when you don't think it's warranted. Olympic style testing is enough for me to give them the benefit of the doubt.

For the many reasons stated, I am convinced JMM is a roider and his KTFO 6 is now called BS, NC.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Castration talk makes me feel incredibly uneasy.


I've just noticed my post before saying "Accuse Marquez of what you will"

That wasn't directed at you.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> I've just noticed my post before saying "Accuse Marquez of what you will"
> 
> That wasn't directed at you.


Roidraeli might stick though. :lol: :sad5

Not necessarily for Marquez though. :nono


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Definitely suspicious, fans can weigh in as they wish, but WADA is the most comprehensive testing around, and JMM passed it without having knowledge of its procedures far in advance. That's the best fans can ask for at the moment, aside from perhaps 365 testing.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Roidraeli might stick though. :lol: :sad5
> 
> Not necessarily for Marquez though. :nono


Chief Rabbi Heredia :conf



Bogotazo said:


> Definitely suspicious, fans can weigh in as they wish, but WADA is the most comprehensive testing around, and JMM passed it without having knowledge of its procedures far in advance. That's the best fans can ask for at the moment, aside from perhaps 365 testing.


Just out of interest, what do people say about Manny and roids? Other than the fact that he has crazy output and rises up the weights with his power (the power thing I don't think is as big of a deal as people think given the circumstances/reasoning I've detailed in this thread). The only thing that seems fishy to me is Manny, a guy in a hurt sport is acting like a pussy about needles and rejects a great pay check for it, but then when he loses, he is ok to get tested.

Did JMM-Pac have WADA testing? Memo has a dodgy past too. I only trust the Mayweather Olympic style drug testing..kind of.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Definitely suspicious, fans can weigh in as they wish, but WADA is the most comprehensive testing around, and JMM passed it without having knowledge of its procedures far in advance. That's the best fans can ask for at the moment, aside from perhaps 365 testing.


Wasn't Manny regulated by VADA for the Rios fight? Not too shabby either.


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## saul_ir34 (Jun 8, 2013)

I knew there was something about you I didnt like.... 

You are a Pactard!! I didnt think they existed anymore...
That or you are just an attention whore.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Wasn't Manny regulated by VADA for the Rios fight? Not too shabby either.


China ? :lol: Wasnt he only tested twice? Fuck the VADA piggy backers


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

saul_ir34 said:


> I knew there was something about you I didnt like....
> 
> You are a Pactard!! I didnt think they existed anymore...
> That or you are just an attention whore.


Dude, I called you out already on the worst posters thread. I don't care if you don't like me and I don't care if I stand alone in this view, I genuinely believe I'm right and the issue needed to be raised. I'm not a Pactard, I always supported Marquez, but now they're both Roidraeli's. Marquez I'm sure is a certified Roidraelite.


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## saul_ir34 (Jun 8, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Dude, I called you out already on the worst posters thread. I don't care if you don't like me and I don't care if I stand alone in this view, I genuinely believe I'm right and the issue needed to be raised. I'm not a Pactard, I always supported Marquez, but now they're both Roidraeli's. Marquez I'm sure is a certified Roidraelite.


Well if you are sure then the boxing commision should have a pretty strong case against JMM.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

saul_ir34 said:


> Well if you are sure then the boxing commision should have a pretty strong case against JMM.


Boxing commission is a cocktail of finance and politics. They bow and scrape to economic forces.


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Marquez is 100% juicing. Many others are as well, but JMM hasn't faced that level of scrutiny because he's universally adored by boxing fans (myself included)


Wrong. Marquez isn't running through bigger men the way Pacquiao did...for *years*. JMM has beaten one guy - Pacquiao - in dominant fashion. He looked extremely bloated and slow against Bradley and did what many expected him to do versus Alvarado...a blown-up C-level JWW. Just because he has someone's number...and he's had Manny's number in the first 3 fights too (he just gets KD'd a lot), doesn't mean he's a JUICER for training differently during the 4th fight.

JMM isn't cast away as a juicer because he lacks the most important incriminating evidence which is dominating bigger men consistently through power, speed, and endurance (three things that should NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, increase simultaneously - yet they did for Manny Pacman Juiceaio). JMM looked meh versus Floyd and decent, but clearly slower than Bradley. It's only Pacquiao that he blitzed...and with the way he's been countering him in their first 3 fights...it was bound to eventually happen


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## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Wasn't Manny regulated by VADA for the Rios fight? Not too shabby either.


And it's just a coincidence that when Manny finally starts using OSDT he also starts looking...human. Not a coincidence at all.


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## igor_otsky (Jul 24, 2012)

Pacquiao was caught selling PEDs in the Philippines disguised as paracetamol. guilty as fuck










marquez with pimples caused by using too much steroid cream disguised as Rexona.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Wrong. Marquez isn't running through bigger men the way Pacquiao did...for *years*. JMM has beaten one guy - Pacquiao - in dominant fashion. He looked extremely bloated and slow against Bradley and did what many expected him to do versus Alvarado...a blown-up C-level JWW. Just because he has someone's number...and he's had Manny's number in the first 3 fights too (he just gets KD'd a lot), doesn't mean he's a JUICER for training differently during the 4th fight.
> 
> JMM isn't cast away as a juicer because he lacks the most important incriminating evidence which is dominating bigger men consistently through power, speed, and endurance (three things that should NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, increase simultaneously - yet they did for Manny Pacman Juiceaio). JMM looked meh versus Floyd and decent, but clearly slower than Bradley. It's only Pacquiao that he blitzed...and with the way he's been countering him in their first 3 fights...it was bound to eventually happen


I bet in the majority of Pacman his fights he was the bigger man (or atleast as big)
He was a Brandon Rios level drainer before he went to Welterweight.

After he stopped weightdraining he only stopped 3 guys in 11 fights.
Oscar ,Hatton and Cotto.

Manny was probably quite some time on diuretics and other substances that help with making weight.


----------



## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Wrong. Marquez isn't running through bigger men the way Pacquiao did...for *years*. JMM has beaten one guy - Pacquiao - in dominant fashion. He looked extremely bloated and slow against Bradley and did what many expected him to do versus Alvarado...a blown-up C-level JWW. Just because he has someone's number...and he's had Manny's number in the first 3 fights too (he just gets KD'd a lot), doesn't mean he's a JUICER for training differently during the 4th fight.
> 
> JMM isn't cast away as a juicer because he lacks the most important incriminating evidence which is dominating bigger men consistently through power, speed, and endurance (three things that should NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, increase simultaneously - yet they did for Manny Pacman Juiceaio). JMM looked meh versus Floyd and decent, but clearly slower than Bradley. It's only Pacquiao that he blitzed...and with the way he's been countering him in their first 3 fights...it was bound to eventually happen


So ironic isnt it. Pac blitzes through big welters for years, avoids random testing at the height of his career and then foolishly runs into a perfect right hand by a man who had his # and these butthurt pactards have the nerve to say Marquez is the one on roids. Utterly pathetic.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Thread back fire.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Wasn't Manny regulated by VADA for the Rios fight? Not too shabby either.


Yup.


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

dyna said:


> I bet in the majority of Pacman his fights he was the bigger man (or atleast as big)
> He was a Brandon Rios level drainer before he went to Welterweight.
> 
> After he stopped weightdraining he only stopped 3 guys in 11 fights.
> ...


Yes, he only stopped DLH, Hatton, and Cotto. However, he also OBLITERATED/DOMINATED the other large opposition in Clottey, Margarito, Mosley, etc. Sure he only stopped three of those guys, but each one of them was larger than him. Hatton weighed more, DLH actually weighed LESS on fightnight, Cotto was bigger, Clottey bigger, Margarito bigger, Mosley bigger. Predictably the bigger guys were slower (makes sense), but their power was not more effective than Manny's. Manny was faster than them, had more endurance than them, and kept them real fucking honest - meaning he was powerful too.

When a little guy moves up three weight classes in one calendar year...and he's FASTER than everyone else at that weight class it is reasonable to assume that he is also going to be feather-fisted. NOPE. Not the mighty Manny Pacquiao. Manny Pacquiao figured out how to move up weight classes without sacrificing speed and actually increasing power while maintaining or improving endurance. I think it was Lance Armstrong who did something similar...:huh

JMM has done nothing even remotely like that. There's zero reason to suspect JMM is on steroids except for the fact that he had acne on his chest. Obviously acne is a direct indication of steroid use....:rofl:rofl:rofl


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Chief Rabbi Heredia :conf
> 
> Just out of interest, what do people say about Manny and roids? Other than the fact that he has crazy output and rises up the weights with his power (the power thing I don't think is as big of a deal as people think given the circumstances/reasoning I've detailed in this thread). The only thing that seems fishy to me is Manny, a guy in a hurt sport is acting like a pussy about needles and rejects a great pay check for it, but then when he loses, he is ok to get tested.
> 
> Did JMM-Pac have WADA testing? Memo has a dodgy past too. I only trust the Mayweather Olympic style drug testing..kind of.


Manny was a big weight cutter and wasn't ever really "blowing through" bigger guys. The same people who accuse him of magical feats attributed steroids often shit on his post-140 run as fraudulent cherry picking. Once he agreed to testing (and later underwent it looking as quick as ever) I didn't really have many doubts beyond the general suspicion that athletes regularly take steroids.

JMM-Pac didn't have WADA testing, but JMM-Bradley did. I'm not sure if you checked the links I posted way back but WADA does CIR testing like VADA but also includes a "biological passport" which looks at not just the presence of banned substances but any unusual changes in body chemistry.

Memo has some new supplements out too that might be influencing JMM's testosterone and causing those pimples and whatnot. I'm not going to sit here and pretend there's nothing at all suspicious about JMM bulking and getting zits and working with a convicted steroids dealer, but I can also see him simply benefiting from explosive plyometrics and weight-training he's never done before, under the guidance of a knowledgeable conditioning coach who might have more to lose in dealing steroids due to his past.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Thread back fire.


I felt I had closed my case this morning,but I knew it would be fun when the Chicanos got up.:lol:


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> Wrong. Marquez isn't running through bigger men the way Pacquiao did...for *years*. JMM has beaten one guy - Pacquiao - in dominant fashion. He looked extremely bloated and slow against Bradley and did what many expected him to do versus Alvarado...a blown-up C-level JWW. Just because he has someone's number...and he's had Manny's number in the first 3 fights too (he just gets KD'd a lot), doesn't mean he's a JUICER for training differently during the 4th fight.
> 
> JMM isn't cast away as a juicer because he lacks the most important incriminating evidence which is dominating bigger men consistently through power, speed, and endurance (three things that should NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, increase simultaneously - yet they did for Manny Pacman Juiceaio). JMM looked meh versus Floyd and decent, but clearly slower than Bradley. It's only Pacquiao that he blitzed...and with the way he's been countering him in their first 3 fights...it was bound to eventually happen


Nice argument, sounds reasonable. Marquez was always gonna get beat by Bradley, Marquez has a tough time with Diaz and Katsidis. Only a matter of time. Alvarado blows up on fight night too btw. He's no small dude, looking at his stature too. 
His speed, power and endurance looked more impressive - the only reason why people doubt it is because on fight night, Marquez' output was lower because of his gameplan focussing on timing vs Pac. He looked shit vs Floyd because he came in as a fatty.



dyna said:


> I bet in the majority of Pacman his fights he was the bigger man (or atleast as big)
> He was a Brandon Rios level drainer before he went to Welterweight.
> 
> After he stopped weightdraining he only stopped 3 guys in 11 fights.
> ...


Yeah I personally think Manny was on clenbuterol to lose weight. 
Hatton got fucked on a peach shot, we knew he was going. 
Oscar was dead. 'Oh look everybody, Manny carried his power up to beat Oscar' - no one knows how fucked Oscar was. 
Cotto - styles make fights, Cotto was always going to suffer and it wasn't a KO either it was just a forced stoppage.



turbotime said:


> KTFO6 was aces. Thread back fire.


Bias from the start on that part of Turbomeister.



Bogotazo said:


> Manny was a big weight cutter and wasn't ever really "blowing through" bigger guys. The same people who accuse him of magical feats attributed steroids often shit on his post-140 run as fraudulent cherry picking. Once he agreed to testing (and later underwent it looking as quick as ever) I didn't really have many doubts beyond the general suspicion that athletes regularly take steroids.
> 
> JMM-Pac didn't have WADA testing, but JMM-Bradley did. I'm not sure if you checked the links I posted way back but WADA does CIR testing like VADA but also includes a "biological passport" which looks at not just the presence of banned substances but any unusual changes in body chemistry.
> 
> Memo has some new supplements out too that might be influencing JMM's testosterone and causing those pimples and whatnot. I'm not going to sit here and pretend there's nothing at all suspicious about JMM bulking and getting zits and working with a convicted steroids dealer, but I can also see him simply benefiting from explosive plyometrics and weight-training he's never done before, under the guidance of a knowledgeable conditioning coach who might have more to lose in dealing steroids due to his past.


:deal

WADA sounds very reliable, I hope there's not something I'm missing there but it sounds legit given the biological passport. I don't know how weight-training and pylometric alone does that to your gut though tbh, we all know we don't get guts like this. :dunno



PityTheFool said:


> I felt I had closed my case this morning,but I knew it would be fun when the Chicanos got up.:lol:


You never made a case. You just said there's no evidence when there is evidence and most people without agendas feel it's very suspicious. If you look at my previous posts in the past on ESB too I always supported Marquez but he fucked up.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Gaul whenever I first get back into boxing my stomach pokes out from new abs but the fat is still there. Commonly called abfat I believe. JMM has always had good abs but they increase in size and definition when you add weight to the situps. Before I think JMM just did regular crunches, now he does explosive medicine ball workouts that strengthen his core. Or it's HGH gut, but usually bodybuilders who use hgh seem to have a very prominent gut even when they're shredded themselves at their peak state. JMM looks lean come fight time, not bloated.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Nice argument, sounds reasonable. Marquez was always gonna get beat by Bradley, Marquez has a tough time with Diaz and Katsidis. Only a matter of time. Alvarado blows up on fight night too btw. He's no small dude, looking at his stature too.
> His speed, power and endurance looked more impressive - the only reason why people doubt it is because on fight night, Marquez' output was lower because of his gameplan focussing on timing vs Pac. He looked shit vs Floyd because he came in as a fatty.
> 
> Yeah I personally think Manny was on clenbuterol to lose weight.
> ...


Hush now.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> You never made a case. You just said there's no evidence when there is evidence and* most people without agendas* feel it's very suspicious. If you look at my previous posts in the past on ESB too I always supported Marquez but he fucked up.


:lol:
That would exclude you then?

You're the one who never made a case.All you have is acne on the chest and Juan looking fleshy against Floyd.
He didn't have a proper S&C coach and fucked up the bulking.
For every accusation you can throw at Marquez,you'll get plenty back from more people than me about Manny.Now you've lied on this thread and I've made my point and am very satisfied.All you've done is sound butthurt and convinced me of nothing.

Meanwhile,in a quiet corner of General Santos City....








[/URL][/IMG]


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Gaul whenever I first get back into boxing my stomach pokes out from new abs but the fat is still there. Commonly called abfat I believe. JMM has always had good abs but they increase in size and definition when you add weight to the situps. Before I think JMM just did regular crunches, now he does explosive medicine ball workouts that strengthen his core. Or it's HGH gut, but usually bodybuilders who use hgh seem to have a very prominent gut even when they're shredded themselves at their peak state. JMM looks lean come fight time, not bloated.


So it's the abs + fat when you're about to get back into boxing. It's understandable that your stomach pokes out as you'd have gained considerable fat in your time off boxing.

I'm around 8-9% BF, and my abs have a bit of a protruding look but there's a difference between that and a Gamboa, Marquez like roid gut. I have a weighted ab routine that leaves me pretty fucked for around 5 days, so my abs are pretty bulky.

I've never seen abs like that on a natty (natural) - it's not necessarily the abs, look around the abs. You know what? Maybe this is just one of those things well beyond me but it's so suspect tbh.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> So it's the abs + fat when you're about to get back into boxing. It's understandable that your stomach pokes out as you'd have gained considerable fat in your time off boxing.
> 
> I'm around 8-9% BF, and my abs have a bit of a protruding look but there's a difference between that and a Gamboa, Marquez like roid gut. I have a weighted ab routine that leaves me pretty fucked for around 5 days, so my abs are pretty bulky.
> 
> I've never seen abs like that on a natty (natural) - it's not necessarily the abs, look around the abs. You know what? Maybe this is just one of those things well beyond me but it's so suspect tbh.


I just can't really find pictures of hgh gut that are "mild".


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> :lol:
> That would exclude you then?
> 
> You're the one who never made a case.All you have is acne on the chest and Juan looking fleshy against Floyd.
> ...


No there's more than that. 
1. Chest acne - no previous history of it. Joins Memo and bam!
2. Another Memo-trained fighter recently showed up with chest acne - a veteran (someone tell me his name) - I just remember he never had it before either.
3. Memo-trained - dodgy backstreet dude. We all know who he is and he got busted before. 
4. Protruding belly like Gamboa's - looks fucked honestly. Way too suspect to be natural. 
5. No testing for Marquez-Pacquiao 4 - Why should innocent till proven guilty apply when we can't prove someone to be guilty adequately, and all of the aforementioned factors came into play
6. Marquez's reflexes looked boss - I think Max Kellerman was scrutinised because he raised this point and said afterwards that Marquez was very suspect.

All of this in the nature of this crook professional sport, I don't doubt that something is up here. This aint the classy amateurs.

Juan was a fat cunt against Floyd, who cares lol 
I don't give a shit about Manny, this thread is about Marquez of the Pacquiao 4 fight. You just don't get it, stop rehashing these Pacquiao points breh :lol:

P.S No bias on my part, I have always supported Marquez especially in the Marquez-Pac wars, my ESB posts prove that.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I just can't really find pictures of hgh gut that are "mild".


Yeah it looks like it's _constructed_ far different to before.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> No there's more than that.
> 1. Chest acne - no previous history of it. Joins Memo and bam!
> 2. Another Memo-trained fighter recently showed up with chest acne - a veteran (someone tell me his name) - I just remember he never had it before either.
> 3. Memo-trained - dodgy backstreet dude. We all know who he is and he got busted before.
> ...


Like I said,those instances couldn't be used as evidence on Judge Judy,far less anywhere where the preponderance of proof has a reasonable level.

And stop changing what you're saying and saying what I get or don't get.You said "Conclusion;The win doesn't harm Manny's legacy and is a NC"

I called bullshit,then you tried to use a subjective scorecard as a counter argument.
But best of all,you say Manny took clenbutorol but his legacy isn't tainted? :lol:

Get it together,and don't quote me unless you're prepared to stop moving the goalposts.
Your conclusion is mere fantasy.Nothing more and if you give me something that would at least be held up in an Athletic Commision hearing,then I might be prepared to listen.
They may well both have used PEDs.Marquez still knocked him the fuck out and you can wish for it not to be all you want,but that don't make it so.

Now don't quote me again unless you have evidence that has a modicum of substance(no pun intended) legally please.


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> No there's more than that.
> *1. Chest acne - no previous history of it. Joins Memo and bam!*
> 
> I don't give a shit about Manny, this thread is about Marquez of the Pacquiao 4 fight. You just don't get it, stop rehashing these Pacquiao points breh :lol:
> ...


What chest acne?










:huh


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Like I said,those instances couldn't be used as evidence on Judge Judy,far less anywhere where the preponderance of proof has a reasonable level.
> 
> And stop changing what you're saying and saying what I get or don't get.You said "Conclusion;The win doesn't harm Manny's legacy and is a NC"
> 
> ...


I never sought to _prove_ he's on roids, as I've already stated many times. 
It is an NC in my opinion. Enough evidence. I'm inviting people not to be afraid of waking up, smelling the coffee and making a judgement like this - this has been the recurring message of mine from the start. This is a crook sport as it is. 
Sort this out PTF, I've mentioned many times already that his legacy isn't effected by the Pac-JMM 4 fight. Pacquiao isn't really weight cutting now like he was back then. Hell, I realise I forgot to say he 'may' have been taking clenbuterol. 
Thinking he's clean is clear fucking fantasy too. Innocent till proven guilty is bullshit in this circumstance for all of the reasons I've stated that you're pissing on without making any judgement on. 'Oh I don't know therefore he's innocent and I give him credit - well he wasn't proven guilty therefore I will give him question for the win'. Double standards. 
Yeah, they may well have both used PED's because it's an NC anyway.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Felix said:


> What chest acne?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can form over time. The fact that he has it now, and the other fighter has it, makes you doubt it all the more. The problem is, Memo didn't join for long enough, even Marquez's camp were banging on about this being the case.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

@PityTheFool I do think you're taking this too seriously btw, I think you're getting personal about it. I'm in argue mode, there's no malice, no emotion, just lols and logic. I didnt want to feel like I have to be careful with every post, I'd talk like this with Dealt_with or Hands etc. and they wouldn't assume I'm being personal.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I never sought to _prove_ he's on roids, as I've already stated many times.
> It is an NC in my opinion. Enough evidence. I'm inviting people not to be afraid of waking up, smelling the coffee and making a judgement like this - this has been the recurring message of mine from the start. This is a crook sport as it is.
> Sort this out PTF, I've mentioned many times already that his legacy isn't effected by the Pac-JMM 4 fight. Pacquiao isn't really weight cutting now like he was back then. Hell, I realise I forgot to say he 'may' have been taking clenbuterol.
> Thinking he's clean is clear fucking fantasy too. Innocent till proven guilty is bullshit in this circumstance for all of the reasons I've stated that you're pissing on without making any judgement on. 'Oh I don't know therefore he's innocent and I give him credit - well he wasn't proven guilty therefore I will give him question for the win'. Double standards.
> Yeah, they may well have both used PED's because it's an NC anyway.


They could both have been coked out of their heads on fight night.The result is legit.
You've wavered between saying it's just your opinion and it must be true so let's not pretend you haven't tripped yourself up in this thread.

Now I'm asking you nicely.Please,no more quotes or posts addressing me without proof.You are trying to discredit a win when the fact is,Pacquaio could have been juicing and Marquez might not have.
We have what we have and that is that it was a fair fight and Pacquaio got a fistful of chloral hydrate.
End of story.


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## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

I have chest acne and I don't roid

I'm 37 too..


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Can form over time. The fact that he has it now, and the other fighter has it, makes you doubt it all the more. The problem is, Memo didn't join for long enough, even Marquez's camp were banging on about this being the case.


That doesn't really help your case though...


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> You're absolutely correct that is also speculative bollocks, that was kind of the point


Undefeated Gaul operates on speculative bollocks. Without it, he cannot function.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> They could both have been coked out of their heads on fight night.The result is legit.
> You've wavered between saying it's just your opinion and it must be true so let's not pretend you haven't tripped yourself up in this thread.
> 
> Now I'm asking you nicely.Please,no more quotes or posts addressing me without proof.You are trying to discredit a win when the fact is,Pacquaio could have been juicing and Marquez might not have.
> ...


I'm not wavering, I'm expressing my opinion and sometimes I'm expressing it without saying '_in my opinion_ it must be true' because given the narrative of this thread I think this is apparent, poking holes like this was not necessary.

You're just saying 'Yes Marquez, I will reward you because you haven't been proven wrong even though the tools we used aren't accurate measures either, and all of your physiological changes and backstreet antics mean nothing, but I will reward you' - you can take that view, every member on this forum can take that view, I'm not hating on them for it, I'm just not taking that view that's all, I've made my judgement and don't need the validation of others supporting my view. That is the be all and ends all.



DobyZhee said:


> I have chest acne and I don't roid
> 
> I'm 37 too..


Means nothing. Marquez never had it before.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Undefeated Gaul operates on speculative bollocks. Without it, he cannot function.


From Pedderrs who is adamant in the idea that Lomachenko can't be one of the P4P stars within 10 fights when all he needs to do is beat his no.1 mandatory, a style he's seen so often in Mares and Donaire who Lomachenko would absolutely toy with - all of this is strengthened by the fact that he's doing this so early after just a few pro fights.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Do you believe this fuckin guy? :yikes

I ask him not to quote or mention me unless he has evidence and he says I'm taking it too seriously.

I wish you'd just leave me the fuck alone.I am completely satisfied that myself and others have utterly demolished your unsubstantiated claims.

Evidence.*Evidence*.*Eh-vee-dence*.
Or give me some fucking peace will you? I thought this was done hours ago.


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## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)




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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hatesrats said:


>


:lol:
He's thinking "Why the hell didn't I just let Floyd's people take my damn blood?"


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Do you believe this fuckin guy? :yikes
> 
> I ask him not to quote or mention me unless he has evidence and he says I'm taking it too seriously.
> 
> ...





PityTheFool said:


> :lol:
> He's thinking "Why the hell didn't I just let Floyd's people take my damn blood?"


Ok, I certainly don't want to discuss this anymore.

Unfortunately it seems from your comments and especially these ones show you've been a little too serious and have even been talking about me to another poster.

I don't care if I have the whole forum against me in argumentation this means nothing personal to me, numbers do not validate my points. If no one wakes up then they don't wake up, but it appears credible posters feel the same way or at least hold it's suspicious but don't want to go any further.

I don't mind disagreements and people can have disagreements with me freely and it's ok. If they get emotional, in future I'll adjust my posting style.


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Manny was a big weight cutter and wasn't ever really "blowing through" bigger guys. The same people who accuse him of magical feats attributed steroids often shit on his post-140 run as fraudulent cherry picking. Once he agreed to testing (and later underwent it looking as quick as ever) I didn't really have many doubts beyond the general suspicion that athletes regularly take steroids.
> 
> JMM-Pac didn't have WADA testing, but JMM-Bradley did. I'm not sure if you checked the links I posted way back but WADA does CIR testing like VADA but also includes a "biological passport" which looks at not just the presence of banned substances but any unusual changes in body chemistry.
> 
> Memo has some new supplements out too that might be influencing JMM's testosterone and causing those pimples and whatnot. I'm not going to sit here and pretend there's nothing at all suspicious about JMM bulking and getting zits and working with a convicted steroids dealer, but I can also see him simply benefiting from explosive plyometrics and weight-training he's never done before, under the guidance of a knowledgeable conditioning coach who might have more to lose in dealing steroids due to his past.


And Manny never really showcased game-changing kind of power in the way many people claim. As you mention, he was a big weight-cutter, and it was really the the second knockdown that had Cotto hurt badly and unable to recuperate. It was a sustained beat-down. Hatton durability was reduced after all the weight-cutting and the Mayweather fight and that was a perfect shot. Oscar withstood his assault fine. It was just too much speed. Margo might have been the most impressive beatdown, but we're talking a swarmer at the end of his heyday that's tailor-made for Pac. And it's not like he looked good in the previous fight he had. And that's one of the biggest keys people often overlook. Pac was hitting these bigger, more stationary targets far more often than he was Marquez, Morales, and other sub 135lb guys. And a lot of it had to do with his blistering speed and Tasmanian like pace. They rarely dealt with this kind of speed. The fact that he stopped cutting weight so drastically properly enhanced his performance and stamina. And it's not like Pac didn't like phenomenal in his last fight at 135lbs against Diaz.


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Perhaps he might have been..

Still, roids do NOT give you the timing, accuracy, and ring IQ to land such a shot like that...Not too mention that in that same fight, Marquez looked the worst he has in all the fights against Pacman.

KTFO and win is still legit, good night.


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## PetetheKing (Aug 5, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Gaul whenever I first get back into boxing my stomach pokes out from new abs but the fat is still there. Commonly called abfat I believe. JMM has always had good abs but they increase in size and definition when you add weight to the situps. Before I think JMM just did regular crunches, now he does explosive medicine ball workouts that strengthen his core. Or it's HGH gut, but usually bodybuilders who use hgh seem to have a very prominent gut even when they're shredded themselves at their peak state. JMM looks lean come fight time, not bloated.


You're not going to get an HGH gut. That's just people over-analyzing, I think. Bodybuilders abuse HGH. Fighters who just start out taking at won't take nearly as much of the stuff and it takes years of use to get that HGH Bodybuilder bloated gut type look. It's the muscle definition at the very least that's concerning to people. The chess acne is probably the most suspicious. I still think it's not impossible for someone who didn't have weight-training ever apart of their training and maybe not the most perfect nutrition could get great results from training with a guy like Herrera and dieting soundly. You get your best results earliest. If only he had a history with back/chest acne. Could his body produce more of a response to the anaerobic training that maybe accentuates acne problems. It wouldn't be unheard of I don't think. But it's probably very unlikely. It feels like you have to do a lot of rationalizing because there is natural reason for suspicion. And in these times... that just makes it all the worse since we're naturally more paranoid/cynical about that sort of thing.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

@Dealt_with from what I remember from your posts, you'd probably have a laugh at the stuff that I have written here and would think it's drivel. Rip it to shreds. As you know, nothing personal from my part if you think it's all just utter shit.


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> From Pedderrs who is adamant in the idea that Lomachenko can't be one of the P4P stars within 10 fights when all he needs to do is beat his no.1 mandatory, a style he's seen so often in Mares and Donaire who Lomachenko would absolutely toy with - all of this is strengthened by the fact that he's doing this so early after just a few pro fights.


Lomachenko might be a P4P rated star in Defeated_Gaul's alternate reality if he beats his mandatory, but for the rest of us Lomachenko is going to have to achieve a bit more than that to be ranked alongside the very best in the sport.

You still seem to be struggling with the idea that Amateur Boxing and Professional Boxing are two completely different things. You say ridiculous things like "all he needs to do is beat his no.1 mandatory, a style he's seen so often in Mares and Donaire who Lomachenko would absolutely toy with". To date, Lomachenko has compiled a modest Professional record of 2-1; fighting the likes of Gary Russel Jr, Orlando Salido, and some other fighter whose name escapes me. He may have faced hundreds of different styles as an Amateur, but as a Professional he has faced little variety. The style of say, er, Orlando Salido, would have caused Lomachenko very few problems under Amateur restrictions, but when the two fought as Professionals there was only one winner; Salido. The differences are real.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> Perhaps he might have been..
> 
> Still, roids do NOT give you the timing, accuracy, and ring IQ to land such a shot like that...Not too mention that in that same fight, Marquez looked the worst he has in all the fights against Pacman.
> 
> KTFO and win is still legit, good night.


Yeah I've got to agree with this.

Roids is deffo not going to give him those three factors, and if they had the fight again EVEN WITH THE MOST STRINGENT TESTING, maybe Marquez would get the KO in the 1st round, or 3rd round tbh. That's at least my honest opinion tbh. But I also feel that hey, maybe he would get the KO if it went 14 rounds rather than 12. If this was a 15 rounder, Marquez would get a KO 14 win, but since it's a 12 rounder, it could go to the decision.

What roids do unfortunately is take away the glory of a win that Marquez quite frankly could have got cleanly, based on his ring smarts.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Ok, I certainly don't want to discuss this anymore.
> 
> Unfortunately it seems from your comments and especially these ones show you've been a little too serious and have even been talking about me to another poster.
> 
> ...


Aw for fuck's sake man! Get a grip!

Who did I talk to you about? Because I told Felix T that you had a genuine thing about wishing death on people.
That was because he was calling you gay! You're a fucking baby at times.Even sticking up for you I can't win.

And do you really believe I would say something to someone that I wouldn't say in a post?
Are you for real? You've been quoting me on this fucking thread since this morning even when I ask you to stop.You are a big fucking baby and I'm finding out that I should maybe ignore my own judgement and realise that a lot of people are right.
You really don't see what an absolute arse you're making of yourself here?
"Even been talking to another poster about me"
Are you fucking serious?:lol:


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> To date, Lomachenko has compiled a modest Professional record of 2-1; fighting the likes of Gary Russel Jr, Orlando Salido, and some other fighter whose name escapes me. He may have faced hundreds of different styles as an Amateur, but as a Professional he has faced little variety. The style of say, er, Orlando Salido, would have caused Lomachenko very few problems under Amateur restrictions, but when the two fought as Professionals there was only one winner; Salido. The differences are real.


Yup, I agree. Good post here. The only thing I'd add is that I'd think anyone who thinks Salido won is correct, and I think that anyone who thinks Lomachenko won is also correct (as long as it's not by a wide margin).


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Yup, I agree. Good post here. The only thing I'd add is that I'd think anyone who thinks Salido won is correct, and I think that anyone who thinks Lomachenko won is also correct (as long as it's not by a wide margin).


You haven't read the script. You aren't supposed to agree with me, you're supposed to berate me about how Lomachenko is already the P4P king on account of defeating highly-regarded Gary Russell Jr.


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## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Yeah I've got to agree with this.
> 
> Roids is deffo not going to give him those three factors, and if they had the fight again EVEN WITH THE MOST STRINGENT TESTING, maybe Marquez would get the KO in the 1st round, or 3rd round tbh. That's at least my honest opinion tbh. But I also feel that hey, maybe he would get the KO if it went 14 rounds rather than 12. If this was a 15 rounder, Marquez would get a KO 14 win, but since it's a 12 rounder, it could go to the decision.
> 
> What roids do unfortunately is take away the glory of a win that Marquez quite frankly could have got cleanly, based on his ring smarts.


The way things were looking, i don't think that fight would have gotten to the 12th honestly...The way he was fighting, Juan was definitely going to stop Manny eventually, or get stopped himself.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

PetetheKing said:


> And Manny never really showcased game-changing kind of power in the way many people claim. As you mention, he was a big weight-cutter, and it was really the the second knockdown that had Cotto hurt badly and unable to recuperate. It was a sustained beat-down. Hatton durability was reduced after all the weight-cutting and the Mayweather fight and that was a perfect shot. Oscar withstood his assault fine. It was just too much speed. Margo might have been the most impressive beatdown, but we're talking a swarmer at the end of his heyday that's tailor-made for Pac. And it's not like he looked good in the previous fight he had. And that's one of the biggest keys people often overlook. Pac was hitting these bigger, more stationary targets far more often than he was Marquez, Morales, and other sub 135lb guys. And a lot of it had to do with his blistering speed and Tasmanian like pace. They rarely dealt with this kind of speed. The fact that he stopped cutting weight so drastically properly enhanced his performance and stamina. And it's not like Pac didn't like phenomenal in his last fight at 135lbs against Diaz.


Agreed.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

This is the kind of shit you have to deal with with Gaul.

He keeps quoting you even though you're both going in circles but after a ridiculous comment about me talking to him about another poster,now he goes silent on me.
Unbelievable.

You really ought to look at some of your posts on this thread and your conduct.
No doubt I'll get a personal bio full of insults and history you've noted I've posted so you can use it in a negative way against me like you do when things get a bit much for you.
Cheeky little prick! I defend you on this very night when one of the posters I really like on here says something and now you're crying about me talking about you.
Never again.You're too much of a cry baby.
"I said this but I actually meant that"
You call Marquez "Disraeli"
Would you like if people called you "The oft-defeated Jew"?
I've never put anyone on ignore here or the other place,but you have tempted me tonight Benyamin.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Aw for fuck's sake man! Get a grip!
> 
> Who did I talk to you about? Because I told Felix T that you had a genuine thing about wishing death on people.
> That was because he was calling you gay! You're a fucking baby at times.Even sticking up for you I can't win.
> ...


I don't wish death on people. I don't understand what you mean there lol that's probably my fault, I'm certainly not assuming wrong of you btw if that's what you think :lol:

I just wanted to clarify my reasoning tbh and my posting style is purely clinical. I'm about to make a huge point here which I think people probably misunderstand:

I feel there's no need to be considerate of emotions in forum boxing posting because it's categorically not a 'personal' construct where there are any emotions, so I don't mean any harm therefore I assume people don't take harm from it/personal offence from it. That's not to say I'm going to wrecklessly piss on people's emotions, I'm trying to say posting arguments is a place of no emotion just arguments.
I throw out humour here and there, perhaps joke at the person or soemthing, because it's just not a personal thing to be taken seriously or something to make a personal judgement about me _as a person_, from. Hence why I'd call Marquez a Roidraeli or tell people to question the people who would drink their own piss. At most it's a place of very light emotion, and 'whatever' disagreements.

I told you this before and I'll tell you again, if you had any advice I'd consider it as I value it :conf I'll approach it differently.

If anyone can deal with it without getting mad or assuming things are personal, then I have extra respect for them because they 'get it' and are calm.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> The way things were looking, i don't think that fight would have gotten to the 12th honestly...The way he was fighting, Juan was definitely going to stop Manny eventually, or get stopped himself.


Yeah that's what I think, I just couldn't see it going to a decision, no way - they were both willing to die in that ring to get the victory. Both were just too lethal and both really hit hard. It's just one of the most memorable fights ever for me personally.


----------



## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

Hey gaul, you bitch ass. The man asked you to stop quoting him. You obviously continue to poke at him. All i had to do was skim through and i see you are clearly fuckin high on something or just hyper-active and annoying. Probably an attention seeking cunt in real life . Pitty should have stopped replying to your psychotic ass pages ago. So thats his bad. Still doesnt make you any less of a dick. At least youre having fun, fuckin lame. Lmao


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> You haven't read the script. You aren't supposed to agree with me, you're supposed to berate me about how Lomachenko is already the P4P king on account of defeating highly-regarded Gary Russell Jr.


I'm glad you get it. I like disagreeing with you. @tommygun711 is another I like disagreeing.

Come at me. Lomachenko hits harder than Hearns.

..Ok I can't defend that.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

genaro g said:


> Hey gaul, you bitch ass. The man asked you to stop quoting him. You obviously continue to poke at him. All i had to do was skim through and i see you are clearly fuckin high on something or just hyper-active and annoying. Probably an attention seeking cunt in real life . Pitty should have stopped replying to your psychotic ass pages ago. So thats his bad. Still doesnt make you any less of a dick. At least youre having fun, fuckin lame. Lmao


You're right mate.I should just have ignored the notifications because this thread was done by page 4 at most.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> The way things were looking, i don't think that fight would have gotten to the 12th honestly...The way he was fighting, Juan was definitely going to stop Manny eventually, or get stopped himself.


jmm was damn near stopped in the fifth and you could argue that he was pretty much saved by the bell

he deliberately came in with the attitude of ktfo paq or getting ktfo himself


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

quincy k said:


> jmm was damn near stopped in the fifth and you could argue that he was pretty much saved by the bell
> 
> he deliberately came in with the attitude of ktfo paq or getting ktfo himself


After the Katsidis KD, that was probably the most worried i have ever been for JMM...That 5th round had to of had my heart pumping at a 1000 beats per second..


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

genaro g said:


> Hey gaul, you bitch ass. The man asked you to stop quoting him. You obviously continue to poke at him. All i had to do was skim through and i see you are clearly fuckin high on something or just hyper-active and annoying. Probably an attention seeking cunt in real life . Pitty should have stopped replying to your psychotic ass pages ago. So thats his bad. Still doesnt make you any less of a dick. At least youre having fun, fuckin lame. Lmao


My posting style has absolutely no reflection on me as a person. The posting style does not consider emotion as argumentations on a boxing forum are emotionless. *Emotions, personalities etc. are not arguments*. Get to the bottom of it and move onto the next argument. Rinse and repeat. When there are clashing views, that's when fun memories and laughs can happen if the other party are just as game as you are. Out of it you gain respect for the other persons intellect even if the points they're trying to defend are utter shit. 
I live well outside of here, sorry to say. 
Yeah I like boxing discussions, they're fun but not when peeps get too serious over it. 
---------
@PityTheFool I only just saw your last comment, I'd want to personally overlook it and make nothing of it, but if that still 'holds true' on your part, and you're going to put me on ignore over this, that's on you and if that's what you really want, it's probably for the best mate. Throwing an extreme sentence out there - we might not get along, and may disagree with eachother on a moral level or something, but you know I think you're a decent guy, good luck with life :cheers


----------



## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> You're right mate.I should just have ignored the notifications because this thread was done by page 4 at most.


Yeah man that was hard to read. Have you ever pulled up a new article to read and after the first 1 or 2 lines, you decide to skim through it and cant find anything of any substance(which is how i feel about most online boxing 'writers.') Thats how i felt when reading gauls garbage. You replying just fed the monster and gave him exactly what he wanted. I know its hard to back down some times but some people are just a little twisted as in gauls case. Leave the nut jobs to devour themselves bro. Lol.


----------



## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

quincy k said:


> jmm was damn near stopped in the fifth and you could argue that he was pretty much saved by the bell
> 
> he deliberately came in with the attitude of ktfo paq or getting ktfo himself


They were both raging in there. In an evenly matched stylistic match up, Marquez was much more prepared. And that was evident in the training footage. Marquez produced one of the greatest knockouts in decades.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Marquez is willing to drink his own piss.... steriods is an upgrade.


----------



## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

Marquez is definitely a roider, but many others are as well. It doesn't make it right just because others do it though. Shame on them all!


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

bjl12 said:


> Wrong. Marquez isn't running through bigger men the way Pacquiao did...for *years*. JMM has beaten one guy - Pacquiao - in dominant fashion. He looked extremely bloated and slow against Bradley and did what many expected him to do versus Alvarado...a blown-up C-level JWW. Just because he has someone's number...and he's had Manny's number in the first 3 fights too (he just gets KD'd a lot), doesn't mean he's a JUICER for training differently during the 4th fight.
> 
> JMM isn't cast away as a juicer because he lacks the most important incriminating evidence which is dominating bigger men consistently through power, speed, and endurance (three things that should NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, increase simultaneously - yet they did for Manny Pacman Juiceaio). JMM looked meh versus Floyd and decent, but clearly slower than Bradley. It's only Pacquiao that he blitzed...and with the way he's been countering him in their first 3 fights...it was bound to eventually happen


You're opinion means nothing as you think Alvarado is a 'blown-up jww'.

You do know that Alvarado weighs in as a junior middleweight when he fights at 140, right?

Also, doubt you know, but there are many examples throughout history of naturally smaller guys faring far better against bigger, slower fighters. Before steroids were even around.

Blocked.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Hatesrats said:


>


:rofl


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> You're opinion means nothing as you think Alvarado is a 'blown-up jww'.
> 
> You do know that Alvarado weighs in as a junior middleweight when he fights at 140, right?
> 
> ...


Alvarado, another ill-skilled weight cutter.

Juan Manuel Marquez in my opinion-
57-2-3-2
W-L-D-NC
W Norwood
W John
Dx3 Pacquiao - it's not really fair to say one of them won and the other lost tbh
NC - Marquez vs Pacquiao 4. Memo-trained Roidraeli 
NC Roman (I don't count the Saul Roman 1st round disqualification in his professional debut)
L Bradley
L Mayweather

Just reading back at this thread, I was very reasonable here throughout.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

A new credible theory emerges. Marquez has an ab transplant:









No HGH, just surgical aesthetics.


----------



## NoMas (Jun 7, 2012)

90% of fighters are probably on some form of PED's... Marquez legacy is still intact in my books... They dont make you quicker, they dont make your feet move and improve your footwork, they help your weight and might improve your power a little bit, Marquez always had power...

The fact he saw Manny about to throw a punch and timed the punch with precision and on the button takes nothing away from the victory, the add muscle was a hinderance if anything..


Margachetto's on the other hand, loading up gloves etc is clear cheating...


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Alvarado, another ill-skilled weight cutter.
> 
> Juan Manuel Marquez in my opinion-
> 57-2-3-2
> ...


He didn't beat Norwood.

Stop trolling


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> He didn't beat Norwood.
> 
> Stop trolling


He beat Norwood, most people who have watched the fight feel the same way. I remember the commentators also felt the same way too.

- See, I'm not bias. I'm happy to give him props where he deserves it.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

NoMas said:


> 90% of fighters are probably on some form of PED's... Marquez legacy is still intact in my books... They dont make you quicker, they dont make your feet move and improve your footwork, they help your weight and might improve your power a little bit, Marquez always had power...
> 
> The fact he saw Manny about to throw a punch and timed the punch with precision and on the button takes nothing away from the victory, the add muscle was a hinderance if anything..
> 
> Margachetto's on the other hand, loading up gloves etc is clear cheating...


Yeah true. It's such a shame as Marquez could have still got the KO based on his game strategy. But the facts surrounding the fight unfortunately are just too much to dismiss. I can't pretend the elephant in the room is not there.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> He beat Norwood, most people who have watched the fight feel the same way. I remember the commentators also felt the same way too.
> 
> - See, I'm not bias. I'm happy to give him props where he deserves it.


They landed like 90 punches between them. No one won anything that night the commentators were disappointed as hell. You know a fight is shit when they thank Floyd Mayweather for livening up the crowd in the next fight.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> They landed like 90 punches between them. No one won anything that night the commentators were disappointed as hell. You know a fight is shit when they thank Floyd Mayweather for livening up the crowd in the next fight.


Yeah the fight was boring as fuck :lol: no won deserves a win on their resume for that shit.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

edit: old avatar.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Just getting behind my boy Boxing EGO as seen in my avatar, advertising him you know, putting his word out there.


So why didn't he KO that Russian fella? Or Alvarado?


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> So why didn't he KO that Russian fella? Or Alvarado?


I think the chest acne was causing him pain/stinging.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I think the chest acne was causing him pain/stinging.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

So Marquez is seen as a career-criminal crook who is also according to a lot of people here sore loser given he couldn't accept clear defeat to Bradley. 

Por que Marquez?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> So Marquez is seen as a career-criminal crook who is also according to a lot of people here sore loser given he couldn't accept clear defeat to Bradley.
> 
> Por que Marquez?


Even Roach knows Manny lost the 3rd fight.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Alvarado, another ill-skilled weight cutter.
> 
> Juan Manuel Marquez in my opinion-
> 57-2-3-2
> ...


I fucked up, I meant his career record is:

55-2-3-4
W-L-D-NC
W Norwood
W John
Dx3 Pacquiao - it's not really fair to say one of them won and the other lost tbh
NC - Marquez vs Pacquiao 4. Memo-trained Roidraeli 
*NC - Ramos (blatant fucking dive) 
NC - Alvarado (chest acne the added factor)*
NC Roman (I don't count the Saul Roman 1st round disqualification in his professional debut)
L Bradley
L Mayweather


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

All of this suspect Marquez antics is making Mayweather's win over Marquez look _potentially_ better.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Floyd a G. Not many ATGs shut out other ATGs. Seriously, how often does it happen?


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Floyd a G. Not many ATGs shut out other ATGs. Seriously, how often does it happen?


Lebedev-Toney :huh


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

dyna said:


> Lebedev-Toney :huh


Lebs is no ATG :bart


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Lebs is no ATG :bart


When you beat a legend you become a legend.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

dyna said:


> When you beat a legend you become a legend.


:cry


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)




----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


>


This video is the shit. 
Some Filipinos like 'Is Manny dead?' 'Omagaad Manny is died' :lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> This video is the shit.
> Some Filipinos like 'Is Manny dead?' 'Omagaad Manny is died' :lol:


What happpppppened!?!

He got punched in the fucking head.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> What happpppppened!?!
> 
> He got punched in the fucking head.


by a senior Roidraeli citizen :yep


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> by a senior Roidraeli citizen :yep


"He hit him in the bacK" :rofl

Pactards are the worst.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> "He hit him in the bacK" :rofl
> 
> Pactards are the worst.


:rofl 
Fuck em all. Some pactards the most terrible creatures on this planet, second to memo-trained fighters.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> :rofl
> Fuck em all. Some pactards the most terrible creatures on this planet, second to memo-trained fighters.


Where is our man puga at these days?


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Where is our man puga at these days?


who's puga? The most notorious Pactard of all time from my experience is @lance_uppercut

- I hope I haven't tagged an alt account of Lance.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> who's puga? The most notorious Pactard of all time from my experience is @lance_uppercut
> 
> - I hope I haven't tagged an alt account of Lance.


Nah Lance wasn't a turd he just didn't like Floyd

puga challaenged @Hands of Iron to prove he wasn't black.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Nah Lance wasn't a turd he just didn't like Floyd
> 
> puga challaenged @Hands of Iron to prove he wasn't black.


and won the challenge. Hands of Ghana

:lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> and won the challenge. Hands of Ghana
> 
> :lol:


:rofl :rofl


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

What are you two bullies on about?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

turbotime said:


> puga challaenged @Hands of Iron to prove he wasn't black.





The Undefeated Gaul said:


> and won the challenge. Hands of Ghana
> 
> :lol:





turbotime said:


> :rofl :rofl


:huh

:|

Whatever.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

turbotime said:


> Floyd a G. Not many ATGs shut out other ATGs. Seriously, how often does it happen?


The World's greatest Welterweight shutout arguably the World's best Super Featherweight. That's what happened.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :huh - *this emoticon is not white enough....*
> 
> :| *that's better, I feel white now*
> 
> Whatever. :arran2


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> The World's greatest Welterweight shutout arguably the World's best Super Featherweight. That's what happened.


Makes me feel like Napoles-Monzon. Circus arena.


----------



## Capaedia (Jun 6, 2013)

I'm not going to deny that Marquez is roiding. I think they all are, but if you recall the 24/7 for Marquez-Mayweather, Marquez was drinking his own piss for nutrients and throwing rocks for training.

Now that he has an actual strength and conditioning trainer, his physique has seen improvement like never before. I think it's as dramatic as it is because _he isn't drinking piss for nutrients and throwing rocks for training_ anymore.



The Undefeated Gaul said:


> NC - Ramos (blatant fucking dive)


This makes it awfully appealing to just take a dive in a fight you are losing.

No KO loss on your record.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Makes me feel like Napoles-Monzon. Circus arena.


People can put different spins on the Mayweather-Marquez fight depending on their own alliances, but for me pulling a half decent Lightweight up to Welterweight and winning 12 rounds out of 12 isn't, like, er, mind-blowing. The performance itself was great in the sense that Floyd totally outboxed an accomplished boxer, so we can appreciate the manner in which the victory came about, but the victory itself should have been expected. JMM was not adjusted to 147lbs. And the less said about Mayweather's weight antics the better.

And before Floyd fans come running in screaming, "yeah, like that would have made a difference yo-yo!" That's besides the point entirely.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> The World's greatest Welterweight shutout arguably the World's best Super Featherweight. That's what happened.


??


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

turbotime said:


> ??


If you disagree with anything I have said then you should air your grievances. We can discuss.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Capaedia said:


> I'm not going to deny that Marquez is roiding. I think they all are, but if you recall the 24/7 for Marquez-Mayweather, Marquez was drinking his own piss for nutrients and throwing rocks for training.
> 
> Now that he has an actual strength and conditioning trainer, his physique has seen improvement like never before. I think it's as dramatic as it is because _he isn't drinking piss for nutrients and throwing rocks for training_ anymore.
> 
> ...


Gives me something to think about. That same feeling when you have arranged a rubix cube only to see there are one or two squares that haven't been successfully aligned. 
I guess it feels like the Marquez-Ramos was orchestrated from the start rather than an Ortiz-Collazo situation. What do you think?

As for the first part of your comment, I fully expect strength and conditioning to benefit him (especially I expected it to go hand in hand with JMM's strategy for the 4th fight) - however, the gut from the Pac 4 fight makes me feel that the strength and conditioning regime alone has not been the only factor.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> People can put different spins on the Mayweather-Marquez fight depending on their own alliances, but for me pulling a half decent Lightweight up to Welterweight and winning 12 rounds out of 12 isn't, like, er, mind-blowing. The performance itself was great in the sense that Floyd totally outboxed an accomplished boxer, so we can appreciate the manner in which the victory came about, but the victory itself should have been expected. JMM was not adjusted to 147lbs. And the less said about Mayweather's weight antics the better.
> 
> And before Floyd fans come running in screaming, "yeah, like that would have made a difference yo-yo!" That's besides the point entirely.


I agree, especially given that styles make fights and against a smaller guy, the disparity on a stylistic level will be even greater to Floyd's advantage. 
Mayweather was very unprofessional during the weigh in, overweight + much heavier than Marquez. Marquez's frame is smaller and just looked fat. Reminiscent of Oscar-Sturm.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

:lol: atsch @ Gaul's AV

Oh and by the way, @The Undefeated Gaul , That other Memo trained fighter who also had chest acne, whos name you were asking for in your OP; i believe that was Argenis Mendez...I remember hearing he hired Memo for his last fight against Rances Barthelemy, but if i remember correctly, i think that was his first fight with Memo in his camp. Could be wrong tho.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I agree, especially given that styles make fights and against a smaller guy, the disparity on a stylistic level will be even greater to Floyd's advantage.
> Mayweather was very unprofessional during the weigh in, overweight + much heavier than Marquez. Marquez's frame is smaller and just looked fat. Reminiscent of Oscar-Sturm.


I think I preferred it when we never agreed on anything, Gaul.

I suppose there's a lot to be said for Floyd's inactivity though. The guy hadn't fought in nearly two years and he came back and made JMM look like a sparring partner, albeit a sparring partner who was smaller and at a serious stylistic disadvantage.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> People can put different spins on the Mayweather-Marquez fight depending on their own alliances, but for me pulling a half decent Lightweight up to Welterweight and winning 12 rounds out of 12 isn't, like, er, mind-blowing. The performance itself was great in the sense that Floyd totally outboxed an accomplished boxer, so we can appreciate the manner in which the victory came about, but the victory itself should have been expected. JMM was not adjusted to 147lbs. And the less said about Mayweather's weight antics the better.
> 
> And before Floyd fans come running in screaming, "yeah, like that would have made a difference yo-yo!" That's besides the point entirely.


I'm a fan of both and am of the opinion that JMM had no proper advice and S&C guy on hand for Floyd.
And I don't think he would've done any better in that particular fight.
I can't say for sure JMM isn't juicing,but to be held up against Pacquaio when it comes to juicing is like comparing Hamed to Barrera ability-wise,with JMM obviously Hamed


----------



## Capaedia (Jun 6, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Gives me something to think about. That same feeling when you have arranged a rubix cube only to see there are one or two squares that haven't been successfully aligned.
> I guess it feels like the Marquez-Ramos was orchestrated from the start rather than an Ortiz-Collazo situation. What do you think?


I think Ramos got timed. Maybe he decided it wasn't a fight he could win, but what did you expect given my avatar? :hey



> As for the first part of your comment, I fully expect strength and conditioning to benefit him (especially I expected it to go hand in hand with JMM's strategy for the 4th fight) - however, the gut from the Pac 4 fight makes me feel that the strength and conditioning regime alone has not been the only factor.


I'm not arguing that it was the only factor. Marquez is definitely roiding. But if Manny didn't turn down stricter testing in '09 then I'd have a little more sympathy for him. Especially if they hadn't gone on their shitty little media offensive against Mayweather for demanding testing, and then again against Marquez after the fourth fight when they were in Marquez' position against the Mayweathers and whining about it at every opportunity :deal 
Flipping the script and demanding testing after being knocked the fuck out makes it even sweeter for me. The nerve of Manny's camp is astounding.

I think if we dig deep, all of the top fighters are suspicious. Shit, I think it'd be suspicious enough that an ostensibly clean athlete would be able to compete with the obvious roiders. But for arguments sake who does it leave us? B-Hop schooling people half his age, Mayweather taking long lay-offs and looking as sharp as ever, or Wlad refusing to do stricter testing?

Who is to say that there were no stimulants in the sport as early as the Dempsey days and where do we stop? At the end of the day you might even look like a bit of a fool for not wanting to juice and compete on an even playing field with the rest of them. The testing isn't going to protect you at the highest level, it's all up to you.


----------



## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> I'm a fan of both and am of the opinion that JMM had no proper advice and S&C guy on hand for Floyd.
> And I don't think he would've done any better in that particular fight.
> I can't say for sure JMM isn't juicing,but to be held up against Pacquaio when it comes to juicing is like comparing Hamed to Barrera ability-wise,with JMM obviously Hamed


I have never been one to accuse a Professional fighter of taking a fight purely because of the money, and I'm not going to start now, but that's probably the closest JMM will ever come to doing so. I believe JMM trained extraordinarily hard during his preparations with the intent to win the fight, and he left the ring having given it absolutely everything, but JMM seemed fairly content at the end of the 12 rounds. He was happy to have gone the full 12 with the best fighter in the World whilst picking up a handsome pay cheque in the process.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Capaedia said:


> I think Ramos got timed. Maybe he decided it wasn't a fight he could win, but what did you expect given my avatar? :hey
> 
> I'm not arguing that it was the only factor. Marquez is definitely roiding. But if Manny didn't turn down stricter testing in '09 then I'd have a little more sympathy for him. Especially if they hadn't gone on their shitty little media offensive against Mayweather for demanding testing, and then again against Marquez after the fourth fight when they were in Marquez' position against the Mayweathers and whining about it at every opportunity :deal
> Flipping the script and demanding testing after being knocked the fuck out makes it even sweeter for me. The nerve of Manny's camp is astounding.
> ...


The funny thing about the whole prefight to their 4th fight was Roach constantly running his mouth, saying JMM was juicing, that his body isn't natural, and that he would kiss his ass if his body was natural...As soon as JMM calls him out on his shit, and asks for OSDT for their fight, CACA-Roach quickly changes his tone, and says all this shit that he was just playing and what not. atsch

^ If that wasn't suspicious, then i don't know what is.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> :lol: atsch @ Gaul's AV
> 
> Oh and by the way, @The Undefeated Gaul , That other Memo trained fighter who also had chest acne, whos name you were asking for in your OP; i believe that was Argenis Mendez...I remember hearing he hired Memo for his last fight against Rances Barthelemy, but if i remember correctly, i think that was his first fight with Memo in his camp. Could be wrong tho.


lol I asked dyna to make it, out of good spirit/humour he did. 
THANK YOU. I never thought I'd find out the name.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I have never been one to accuse a Professional fighter of taking a fight purely because of the money, and I'm not going to start now, but that's probably the closest JMM will ever come to doing so. I believe JMM trained extraordinarily hard during his preparations with the intent to win the fight, and he left the ring having given it absolutely everything, but JMM seemed fairly content at the end of the 12 rounds. He was happy to have gone the full 12 with the best fighter in the World whilst picking up a handsome pay cheque in the process.


It was a horrible fight to watch,and I didn't like what happened with Mosley but it was so obvious that even with the big money fight,JMM got the whole weight and bulking horribly wrong.Knowing Nacho,he probably felt it was an unnecessary expense at the time.
Now, they've learned and got it right.That doesn't mean that Juan hasn't juiced,but to suggest that body is not achievable naturally is IMO,absolute nonsense.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> lol I asked dyna to make it, out of good spirit/humour he did.
> THANK YOU. I never thought I'd find out the name.


:cheers

By the way, Gaul...What did you think of Marquez' performance on the 3rd fight against Manny? Do you believe he was juicing then too, or strictly just the 4th fight?


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> The funny thing about the whole prefight to their 4th fight was Roach constantly running his mouth, saying JMM was juicing, that his body isn't natural, and that he would kiss his ass if his body was natural...As soon as JMM calls him out on his shit, and asks for OSDT for their fight, CACA-Roach quickly changes his tone, and says all this shit that he was just playing and what not. atsch
> 
> ^ If that wasn't suspicious, then i don't know what is.


Yeah,but it's not about Roach or Manny Zopi,it's about Juan and his chest zits.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> I think I preferred it when we never agreed on anything, Gaul.
> 
> I suppose there's a lot to be said for Floyd's inactivity though. The guy hadn't fought in nearly two years and he came back and made JMM look like a sparring partner, albeit a sparring partner who was smaller and at a serious stylistic disadvantage.


Yeah exactly. Well, go on 'The Official CheckHook Boxing Confession Thread', you've got a buffet of disagreements awaiting there - I've said a lot of controversial things. 








You better post yours though..


----------



## Capaedia (Jun 6, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> The funny thing about the whole prefight to their 4th fight was Roach constantly running his mouth, saying JMM was juicing, that his body isn't natural, and that he would kiss his ass if his body was natural...As soon as JMM calls him out on his shit, and asks for OSDT for their fight, CACA-Roach quickly changes his tone, and says all this shit that he was just playing and what not. atsch
> 
> ^ If that wasn't suspicious, then i don't know what is.


Roach is a charlatan. I don't know how I started to warm to him.

Marquez sonned him again when he reminded Roach that he said he'd kiss his ass if he was clean, after passing the same drug tests Manny has been taking for his stay at the top.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Capaedia said:


> I think Ramos got timed. Maybe he decided it wasn't a fight he could win, but what did you expect given my avatar? :hey
> 
> I'm not arguing that it was the only factor. Marquez is definitely roiding. But if Manny didn't turn down stricter testing in '09 then I'd have a little more sympathy for him. Especially if they hadn't gone on their shitty little media offensive against Mayweather for demanding testing, and then again against Marquez after the fourth fight when they were in Marquez' position against the Mayweathers and whining about it at every opportunity :deal
> Flipping the script and demanding testing after being knocked the fuck out makes it even sweeter for me. The nerve of Manny's camp is astounding.
> ...





Zopilote said:


> The funny thing about the whole prefight to their 4th fight was Roach constantly running his mouth, saying JMM was juicing, that his body isn't natural, and that he would kiss his ass if his body was natural...As soon as JMM calls him out on his shit, and asks for OSDT for their fight, CACA-Roach quickly changes his tone, and says all this shit that he was just playing and what not. atsch
> 
> ^ If that wasn't suspicious, then i don't know what is.


Guys, as we know, Roach is a man of many things, an honest character is not among them. Roach alone was one of the reasons (albeit a small reason) why I've always supported Marquez over Pacquiao. 
I think Wlad's a flat out PED guzzler - his refusal to do testing is just pathetic. 
The single most suspicious thing about Pac is not his performances, but his refusal to do random blood and urine testing because he's 'afraid of needles' which he even said in an interview. Can you imagine an ATG with an offensive style who's been KTFO a couple of times, being afraid of a little blood test? And then afterwards he's willing to do blood testing when his career has hit the shit.

In regards to B-Hop schooling people half is age, it's always going to raise suspicion but I would say B-Hop was even able to set the brakes on a young Roy Jones Jr, making it a controlled, boring, slow paced fight..considering B-Hop's fights are 'thinking fights', we're not exactly talking a 49 year old Erik Morales here with Morales' style :lol:

As for your last paragraph Capaedia, yeah it is a shame. Boxing becomes a bit of a circus act when there's no stringent testing, I think I likened it to those WWE matches where you can use different kind of weapons to get the victory :lol:



Zopilote said:


> :cheers
> 
> By the way, Gaul...What did you think of Marquez' performance on the 3rd fight against Manny? Do you believe he was juicing then too, or strictly just the 4th fight?


I actually think Marquez beat Manny in that fight BUT hey that's just my micro-analysis, someone else could have Manny winning and they're correct too, the fight was even regardless of the fact that I had Marquez winning. Honestly I'm not completely sure, I didn't analyse too far into that other than notice the physiological changes going into the 4th fight and the assignment of Memo Heredia. So probably not, no..? What do you think btw?


----------



## Capaedia (Jun 6, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Guys, as we know, Roach is a man of many things, an honest character is not among them. Roach alone was one of the reasons (albeit a small reason) why I've always supported Marquez over Pacquiao.


Hey at least it is something!



> I think Wlad's a flat out PED guzzler - his refusal to do testing is just pathetic.


Totally agree



> The single most suspicious thing about Pac is not his performances, but his refusal to do random blood and urine testing because he's 'afraid of needles' which he even said in an interview. Can you imagine an ATG with an offensive style who's been KTFO a couple of times, being afraid of a little blood test? And then afterwards he's willing to do blood testing when his career has hit the shit.


Where there is smoke... It was always "let the commission do its job" and a thousand other excuses, until Manny was the one that got Hatton'd. The only other reason I can think of for this type of clowning around is that they were avoiding Mayweather. Was it that difficult to get some proper testing done for the Clottey fight? It was a problem that they never addressed properly. Not until his starpower took a dramatic nosedive.

I'm happy with either circumstance though.



> In regards to B-Hop schooling people half is age, it's always going to raise suspicion but I would say B-Hop was even able to set the brakes on a young Roy Jones Jr, making it a controlled, boring, slow paced fight..considering B-Hop's fights are 'thinking fights', we're not exactly talking a 49 year old Erik Morales here with Morales' style :lol:


True that but in my warped, crazy world these young men are probably juicing like everyone else. B-Hop is not very suspicious IMO, but there aren't many that aren't.



> As for your last paragraph Capaedia, yeah it is a shame. Boxing becomes a bit of a circus act when there's no stringent testing, I think I likened it to those WWE matches where you can use different kind of weapons to get the victory :lol:


Marquez is better at using the chair than Manny is :deal


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Guys, as we know, Roach is a man of many things, an honest character is not among them. Roach alone was one of the reasons (albeit a small reason) why I've always supported Marquez over Pacquiao.
> I think Wlad's a flat out PED guzzler - his refusal to do testing is just pathetic.
> The single most suspicious thing about Pac is not his performances, but his refusal to do random blood and urine testing because he's 'afraid of needles' which he even said in an interview. Can you imagine an ATG with an offensive style who's been KTFO a couple of times, being afraid of a little blood test? And then afterwards he's willing to do blood testing when his career has hit the shit.
> 
> ...


Honestly, i think Marquez has looked at his sharpest in that 3rd fight (above 135lbs abyway, that fight or the Alvarado one IMO), even tho he did noticeably started looking tired in the latter rounds, which isn't really what he's known for...But obviously, im not a PED expert, so i honestly don't know what to think at this point. That was his first fight with heredia in his camp, and he did look ripped as well. I still give him much props for that performance, since he showed a tremendous amount of skill on that fight, a fight which he SHOULD have won by the way. :deal


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

NoMas said:


> 90% of fighters are probably on some form of PED's... Marquez legacy is still intact in my books... They dont make you quicker, they dont make your feet move and improve your footwork, they help your weight and might improve your power a little bit, Marquez always had power...
> 
> The fact he saw Manny about to throw a punch and timed the punch with precision and on the button takes nothing away from the victory, the add muscle was a hinderance if anything..
> 
> Margachetto's on the other hand, loading up gloves etc is clear cheating...


I agree 100% with this post.

If anything, all that extra bulk slowed him down, and effected his stamina somewhat..


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Capaedia said:


> Roach is a charlatan. I don't know how I started to warm to him.
> 
> Marquez sonned him again when he reminded Roach that he said he'd kiss his ass if he was clean, after passing the same drug tests Manny has been taking for his stay at the top.Hey at least it is something!
> Totally agree
> ...


:lol:

Yeah, I share the same views in this post.
I would say, Clottey has always been a bit confusing to me. He is a serial weight cutter and I think in his fights he'd put on 30lbs or something. He's the same dude that just beat LMW Mundine after all.



Zopilote said:


> Honestly, i think Marquez has looked at his sharpest in that 3rd fight (above 135lbs abyway, that fight or the Alvarado one IMO), even tho he did noticeably started looking tired in the latter rounds, which isn't really what he's known for...But obviously, im not a PED expert, so i honestly don't know what to think at this point. That was his first fight with heredia in his camp, and he did look ripped as well. I still give him much props for that performance, since he showed a tremendous amount of skill on that fight, a fight which he SHOULD have won by the way. :deal


Although the first two fights were evenly matched, I always had the sense that it was Marquez that was chasing after Pacquiao's lead in the fight, but the 3rd fight changed the momentum as Marquez had this aura of being more in control and by the 4th fight, I was picking Marquez especially as he emphasised his gameplan.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> I can't say for sure JMM isn't juicing,but to be held up against Pacquaio when it comes to juicing is like comparing Hamed to Barrera ability-wise,with JMM obviously Hamed


This isn't fair.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> This isn't fair.


Why?
There is zero evidence of a decent standard and only guessing about both,but Pacquaio was questioned way,way more than Marquez ever has been.
The man claimed to be scared of needles 2 or 3 weeks out from a fight but is happy to get his core battered with a bamboo stick.

It's not fair on either,but it's the way it is.But you always get someone taking it to the extreme and here you have someone claiming Marquez didn't really knock Pacquaio out because he had acne on his chest and you say I'm not being fair?


----------



## mishima (Jul 17, 2013)

I have no doubt he is roiding. Pretty sure Pac was doing it too


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> Why?
> There is zero evidence of a decent standard and only guessing about both,but *Pacquaio was questioned way,way more than Marquez ever has been.
> *


We shouldn't be as suspicious of Marquez because people haven't been as suspicious of him before? Not being funny, just think that this is a problematic way of thinking.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

I feel this may be a recent picture of Marquez. It sure looks like him:









:audley


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

See ya'll in a week, my birthday week :deal


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> We shouldn't be as suspicious of Marquez because people haven't been as suspicious of him before? Not being funny, just think that this is a problematic way of thinking.


And you have no issue with someone saying the fourth fight should be a NC because they take a photo of another fight and he has a few spots on his chest.
You don't have a problem with someone who has openly declared their disdain for Israel and their horrific recent actions being able to call Marquez "Roidraeli"?
You really think Marquez was juicing pre-Mayweather? 
There are a lot of very unfair things being said in this thread,and with one or two exceptions which I hoped people would take them as they were meant,they haven't come from me.
That's why I know the OP is a liar.He claims to be a fan of Marquez but in other threads,has based his opinion of posters on what they think of the crisis the Palestinians are facing,and he feels so strongly about it,he would never dream of calling a fighter he was a fan of anything to do with Israel.
I think that's far from fair but no one seems bothered about that and my issue from the start has been that there is no way on Earth that the fourth fight should have been a NC.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> And you have no issue with someone saying the fourth fight should be a NC because they take a photo of another fight and he has a few spots on his chest.
> You don't have a problem with someone who has openly declared their disdain for Israel and their horrific recent actions being able to call Marquez "Roidraeli"?
> You really think Marquez was juicing pre-Mayweather?
> There are a lot of very unfair things being said in this thread,and with one or two exceptions which I hoped people would take them as they were meant,they haven't come from me.
> ...


I have never supported what the OP says. Find one instance where I have agreed with any of those things. In fact, you'll see in this thread (or maybe another) that I have little issue with Marquez, even if he is juicing. I never said JMM was roiding pre-Floyd.

You'll see I'm only debating with the sensible posters.

My issue is with those who say 'hang on, it isn't as bad or as damning as Manny's suspected use'.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> I have never supported what the OP says. Find one instance where I have agreed with any of those things. In fact, you'll see in this thread (or maybe another) that I have little issue with Marquez, even if he is juicing. I never said JMM was roiding pre-Floyd.
> 
> You'll see I'm only debating with the sensible posters.
> 
> My issue is with those who say 'hang on, it isn't as bad or as damning as Manny's suspected use'.


I never said you said or agreed with any of those things mate.I asked if you had an issue or problem with them.
I just think the whole thread is ridiculous and I really should listen to my gut instinct and ignore it,but I'm having a problem with the lies that keep getting told and am quite shocked others aren't picking up on it.
I take your point about who you're choosing to debate with and I apologise for that.I felt I was getting dug out a little and it's clear I was wrong so that's my bad.ops
But my point about Pacquaio being under suspicion for a lot longer than JMM stands though.There's reason to believe he didn't take a fight because he didn't want blood taken at least 2 weeks before the fight.
I've said all along that they could both well be juiced to the eyeballs,but the thread has taken a very dark turn IMO.A person who has regularly voiced their anti-Israeli feelings being able to insult Marquez the way he has should not have gone unnoticed the way it has,especially when I see some of the people who have let it go.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

I find this all very strange.

Roidraeli is meant for humour purposes and I'll always continue to use it. But obviously to try and put a negative twist on it all and read into things too much, the term *'Roidistani'* that I threw around on this thread and other threads is ignored. I'm not even going to address Pity's comments where he's making a big issue out of the Israel-Palestine thing, it's just too petty.

If someone has something against you for light-heartedly joking about making a comment like 'always question the man who drinks his own piss', then that says everything.

I can't have a discussion on here and especially not in real life with people take things too seriously, creating imaginary dots and assuming ulterior, dark motives of me over something so little - that's not a good judge of character, that's paranoia. I don't do fickle bonds either. So put me on ignore if you have this same attitude. It really isn't my loss.

I mean what I say when I wish PityTheFool the best, and towards the end of my trolling prime I told him I haven't got the heart to troll him and do actually mean that lol


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

You really can't help yourself can you?
I never saw a post where you mentioned Roidistani and stop making out it's too petty to point out the thing about Palestine when you said to many posters that you liked them because they were anti-Israeli.
You lie often and you've done it many times in this thread alone.
And you think you could troll me if you wanted? Give it your best shot.
You are a liar and one of the most disingenuous posters on this forum.Always backtrack in to cover your own ass.You talk about people taking things too seriously when you almost had a nervous breakdown because @DBerry wished death on you and your family(and yes,I deliberately tagged him in case you try to lie again)
So come at me if you think you're able.You're still trying to troll with your avatar and the post at the top,but you need to realise that some of is have been out of the playground for decades.
You are a disingenuous liar.Prove me wrong.
And you accuse me of being petty when you say "and you've been talking to another poster about me"?
Who was it? Because I'll take you to school on that one.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> You really can't help yourself can you?
> I never saw a post where you mentioned Roidistani and stop making out it's too petty to point out the thing about Palestine when you said to many posters that you liked them because they were anti-Israeli.
> You lie often and you've done it many times in this thread alone.
> And you think you could troll me if you wanted? Give it your best shot.
> ...


I'm not going to respond to this, it's not going to get anywhere. I have no need to vent as there's no emotions there to vent anyway.
I don't know if anything is going on in your personal life beyond CHB, but if that is the case I hope it gets resolved. You shared personal matters with me in the more recent months and had more personal conversations and then just switch and forget everything from our past conversations. I'm not going to be pissing on that, it's not my style.

Speaking of styles, my posting style on WBF isn't going to change, so I don't know if you have me on ignore or not but it's definitely the best idea.
@Bogotazo @Jay I would respect if you closed this thread, this is no longer about boxing anymore, and the tagging of DBerry is just an attempt to make things personal and dragging just proves this. That's not what I'm here for.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> *I'm not going to respond to this*, it's not going to get anywhere. I have no need to vent as there's no emotions there to vent anyway.


But here's a long post in response anyway:lol:


> *I don't know if anything is going on in your personal life beyond CHB, but if that is the case I hope it gets resolved. You shared personal matters with me in the more recent months and had more personal conversations and then just switch and forget everything from our past conversations. I'm not going to be pissing on that, it's not my style*.


Your usual method when you start getting exposed.Post personal details as I predicted you would early in the thread.If I shared personal details with you(which I never,especially when I know what you do with them.I never told you anything I wouldn't tell most people on here.Post it.You think I give a fuck?)
Post every fucking word.I knew from my second post this would happen.
It's absolutely your style.



> Speaking of styles, my posting style on WBF isn't going to change, so I don't know if you have me on ignore or not but it's definitely the best idea.
> 
> @Bogotazo @Jay I would respect if you closed this thread, this is no longer about boxing anymore, and the tagging of DBerry is just an attempt to make things personal and dragging just proves this. That's not what I'm here for.


 @Jay @Bogotazo ;I'm requesting that you better not close this fucking thread after what's been allowed up to now.
This guy knows he's about to get exposed publicly.Look at the pics of Marquez on the last page and now he wants the thread closed?


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> This is the kind of shit you have to deal with with Gaul.
> 
> He keeps quoting you even though you're both going in circles but after a ridiculous comment about me talking to him about another poster,now he goes silent on me.
> Unbelievable.
> ...


And so it came to pass....

:SOG


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)




----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


>


Is that you on the phone getting the news that Sir Charles is leaving the Suns?


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Or Larry Bird is about to retire?:lol:


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Roidrael, SAY NO!


----------



## MamaSaidKnockYouOut (Jun 4, 2013)

90% of the top level are juicing/have juiced at some stage, JMM, Pac, Floyd etc


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> throw my hands up and say 'Marquez is a Roidistani'.


- Rumour has it this is the no.1 best selling track in Roidrael.


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

It's getting too personal in here.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> :cheers
> 
> By the way, Gaul...What did you think of Marquez' performance on the 3rd fight against Manny? Do you believe he was juicing then too, or strictly just the 4th fight?


:yep


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

dyna said:


> It's getting too personal in here.


Yeah I'm keeping away from it. Just enjoying the Roidaldinho jokes at this stage :lol:


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

"I'm not even going to address Pity's comments where he's making a big deal out of the Israel-Palestine thing.It's just too petty"

:lol:

I don't even need to try here.Everything is on one page.Too easy.
Good that I've exposed a few home truths here.
My work is finally done.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

dyna said:


> It's getting too personal in here.


What it is is piss poorly moderated,and I never thought I'd say that on here.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

*Juan Manuel Marquez Resume*
*Education:*
1st Class BSc (Hons) Roid Sciences, University of Roidsteinn
*Employment:*
Roidman Sachs - Memo Heredian Division
*Country of Residence:*
Roid Islands District, Roidrael

:lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Roidaldinho is more a stab at the man himself :-(


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Roidaldinho is more a stab at the man himself :-(


Yeah man, I'm annoyed at Marquez. I'm taking a stab at him just like he took a stab at himself with the roid injections - you've already seen me do similar earlier on in this thread when we were talking about it before Hands of Ghana post. 
As evidenced from my ESB posts, he was one of my favourite fighters but I can't support a crook like him tbh. I feel hard done by as it's one of those things where I felt he couldn't go wrong. That's not what boxing is.


----------



## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

:deal


----------



## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

if they ever fight again, pacquiao's gonna need a diaper. apparently, he made a poo when marquez knocked him out.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> if they ever fight again, pacquiao's gonna need a diaper. apparently, he made a poo when marquez knocked him out.


:rofl

Where did you hear that btw?


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> :deal


:lol:


----------



## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> :rofl
> 
> Where did you hear that btw?


a friend of mine works at the mgm. it took them three full weeks to get the smell out and another three to get the stains out. the fact that pacquiao had eaten two balut eggs before the fight makes it that much nastier.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

MamaSaidKnockYouOut said:


> 90% of the top level are juicing/have juiced at some stage, JMM, Pac, Floyd etc


You are entitled to believe what you want, but I'm more apt to suspect the person who came up with about 40 different excuses as to why he couldn't test for steroids.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> a friend of mine works at the mgm. it took them three full weeks to get the smell out and another three to get the stains out. the fact that pacquiao had eaten two balut eggs before the fight makes it that much nastier.


:lol:


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## Pedderrs (Jun 1, 2012)

Gaul is a first class troll. The best in the business.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Pedderrs said:


> Gaul is a first class troll. The best in the business.


That's either good trolling from you or you're far more easily impressed than I gave you credit for mate.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> Or Larry Bird is about to retire?:lol:


Would've been a few years too late already. The only thing playing as long as he did accomplished was proving he could be a 20/10/7 player "in the 1990s" despite the fact that he was operating at less than 1/4 of his prime ability.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Would've been a few years too late already. The only thing playing as long as he did accomplished was proving he could be a 20/10/7 player "in the 1990s" despite the fact that he was operating at less than 1/4 of his prime ability.


I knew the timing might be a little out.
But is that you in the photo?


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> I knew the timing might be a little out.
> But is that you in the photo?


No :lol:

His dad (or whoever) has a little gut going on in the background doesn't he? We don't do that shit. It's just a random little blonde baby making a cute facepalm gesture.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> No :lol:
> 
> His dad (or whoever) has a little gut going on in the background doesn't he? We don't do that shit. It's just a random little blonde baby making a cute facepalm gesture.


Silly me!atsch

The right hand on the face instead of arm held out with palm facing downwards should've given it away.:lol:


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)




----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hatesrats said:


>


It's obvious Manny was clean from that pic amigo.
If he had taken roids he would have been up before the ref got to 3.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> Silly me!atsch
> 
> The right hand on the face instead of arm held out with palm facing downwards should've given it away.:lol:


Nah son, we left booked before that one-nutted Austrian made Germany diabolical, remember?


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Nah son, we left booked before that one-nutted Austrian made Germany diabolical, remember?


You mean the guy who tried to save us from the cesspit called Israel?
The guy got a lot wrong,but he also knew what time it was with others.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> You mean the guy who tried to save us from the cesspit called Israel?
> The guy got a lot wrong,but he also knew what time it was with others.


Arnold is still my favorite Austrian.


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

PityTheFool said:


> It's obvious Manny was clean from that pic amigo.
> If he had taken roids he would have been up before the ref got to 3.


It's obvious Pac would have tested clean after that shot cause Marquez knocked the PEDs clear off Packy.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> a friend of mine works at the mgm. it took them three full weeks to get the smell out and another three to get the stains out. the fact that pacquiao had eaten two balut eggs before the fight makes it that much nastier.


Thats just fuckin' rancid, man! :lol:


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

ElKiller said:


> It's obvious Pac would have tested clean after that shot cause Marquez knocked the PEDs clear off Packy.


Yep.He cleared out that system good and proper.
But we now all know it should be a NC and Marquez doesn't hold a legitimate win over Pac.:rolleyes


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Nah, I doubt he roided.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> Yep.He cleared out that system good and proper.
> But we now all know it should be a NC and Marquez doesn't hold a legitimate win over Pac.:rolleyes


I never had any idea you loved Juan this much. :lol:


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> You mean the guy who tried to save us from the cesspit called Israel?
> The guy got a lot wrong,but he also knew what time it was with others.


Please tell me this is a joke.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Please tell me this is a joke.


Sorry,but I'm not prepared to clarify at this point.


----------



## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> You really can't help yourself can you?
> I never saw a post where you mentioned Roidistani and stop making out it's too petty to point out the thing about Palestine when you said to many posters that you liked them because they were anti-Israeli.
> You lie often and you've done it many times in this thread alone.
> And you think you could troll me if you wanted? Give it your best shot.
> ...


Well, the Unmanly Fool is a fuckwit of the highest order, fancy starting a thread like this, the sort of thread that belongs on Boxrec or ESB, on here. Shows how naive the stupid cunt is. And he isn't a true fight fan, a true fan would want the likes of Mosely, Marquez, DeLahoya et. al. to take performance enhancement drugs in order to prolong their careers so we could enjoy watching them fight longer.
Instead, he makes a thread calling for a true warrior, a great champion to be banned from the sport because he thinks Marquez may be taking some steroids. Totally unfounded, mind, yet this cunt is calling for blood, what a fuckwit.
Yes, this idiot who calls himself @The Undefeated Gaul", mind, he is to fucking gutless to fight, hence the undefeated bit and he is a fucking Muslim asian, not any fucking link to the Gauls what-so-ever, is a fucking liar, a gutless fucking race baiting liar, he has yet to provide an example of where I've wished death upon him and his family, why, because it doesn't exist.
This forum would be way better of than the bleeding vagina that this fucking moron truly is, @The Undefeated Gaul, fuck of, you horrible little fucking germ, just fuck off and don't come back.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

DBerry said:


> Well, the Unmanly Fool is a fuckwit of the highest order, fancy starting a thread like this, the sort of thread that belongs on Boxrec or ESB, on here. Shows how naive the stupid cunt is. And he isn't a true fight fan, a true fan would want the likes of Mosely, Marquez, DeLahoya et. al. to take performance enhancement drugs in order to prolong their careers so we could enjoy watching them fight longer.
> Instead, he makes a thread calling for a true warrior, a great champion to be banned from the sport because he thinks Marquez may be taking some steroids. Totally unfounded, mind, yet this cunt is calling for blood, what a fuckwit.
> Yes, this idiot who calls himself @The Undefeated Gaul", mind, he is to fucking gutless to fight, hence the undefeated bit and he is a fucking Muslim asian, not any fucking link to the Gauls what-so-ever, is a fucking liar, a gutless fucking race baiting liar, he has yet to provide an example of where I've wished death upon him and his family, why, because it doesn't exist.
> This forum would be way better of than the bleeding vagina that this fucking moron truly is, @The Undefeated Gaul, fuck of, you horrible little fucking germ, just fuck off and don't come back.


:lol:
:bogo
Dale,I admit I tried to tell him to stop taking you so seriously and that away from the forum, you wouldn't give him a second thought,but when I got bombarded with PMs and eventually found myself exhausted just because I had tried to say you didn't really wish him dead and gave up.
That's exactly what happened and I've seen lie after lie on this thread (like I poured my heart out and must have personal problems) and am done with the arguing,but I'm just making clear the truth about what was said regarding you.Throw in that I mentioned guys with families use this place as an escape and wish they did have the time to think about others on here more and and some armed robbery/financial trouble nonsense and you have the truth right there mate.
I made a silly mistake.I tried to convince someone that you didn't have the time or inclination to genuinely wish death on an internet poster on the other side of the world.
Just getting that in because we're both probably going to be accused of all sorts here.


----------



## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

Is gaul the prick banned yet? That attention seeking cunt! He was the first person, if you want to call that dick a person, the first one that i blocked here at CHB. Im sure the cunt is proud of that too.


----------



## genaro g (Jun 7, 2013)

DBerry said:


> Well, the Unmanly Fool is a fuckwit of the highest order, fancy starting a thread like this, the sort of thread that belongs on Boxrec or ESB, on here. Shows how naive the stupid cunt is. And he isn't a true fight fan, a true fan would want the likes of Mosely, Marquez, DeLahoya et. al. to take performance enhancement drugs in order to prolong their careers so we could enjoy watching them fight longer.
> Instead, he makes a thread calling for a true warrior, a great champion to be banned from the sport because he thinks Marquez may be taking some steroids. Totally unfounded, mind, yet this cunt is calling for blood, what a fuckwit.
> Yes, this idiot who calls himself @The Undefeated Gaul", mind, he is to fucking gutless to fight, hence the undefeated bit and he is a fucking Muslim asian, not any fucking link to the Gauls what-so-ever, is a fucking liar, a gutless fucking race baiting liar, he has yet to provide an example of where I've wished death upon him and his family, why, because it doesn't exist.
> This forum would be way better of than the bleeding vagina that this fucking moron truly is, @The Undefeated Gaul, fuck of, you horrible little fucking germ, just fuck off and don't come back.


That fuckhead tried to race bait you? When on page 1, he calls me biased cause i have a latino handle. What a cunt i knew it.


----------



## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> :lol:
> :bogo
> Dale,I admit I tried to tell him to stop taking you so seriously and that away from the forum, you wouldn't give him a second thought,but when I got bombarded with PMs and eventually found myself exhausted just because I had tried to say you didn't really wish him dead and gave up.
> That's exactly what happened and I've seen lie after lie on this thread (like I poured my heart out and must have personal problems) and am done with the arguing,but I'm just making clear the truth about what was said regarding you.Throw in that I mentioned guys with families use this place as an escape and wish they did have the time to think about others on here more and and some armed robbery/financial trouble nonsense and you have the truth right there mate.
> ...


Meh, don't worry your self mate, he's a fucking goose, that's how I know I've never wished death on the lying little puke and his clearly embarrassed family, I don't give two fucks about him. I would slap him silly, though, if I ever met him, he doesn't realize that this _is_ only the internet, however, he is chatting to, and being a smartarse to, real human beings. I may well get over to the London meet-up, I really hope I can, and I won't even introduce myself to anyone, I'll just open up with a backhander to the fucking runt, then continue to slap him silly. Any one who's met me on here will vouch for the fact that these aren't just words, i will do that just to amuse myself.

As for yo, you are a good man, that much is clear, don't wast your energy on such a fuckwit, an immature, milk fed little cockhead, you're better than that mate.


----------



## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

genaro g said:


> That fuckhead tried to race bait you? When on page 1, he calls me biased cause i have a latino handle. What a cunt i knew it.


Yeah, he's a fucking little germ. A total pissant.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Please tell me this is a joke.


Of course, it is. :lol:

He - or, we - have a long running (admittedly very dark) gag that I'm somehow connected to Nazi Germany and modern day white supremacy (Aryan Brotherhood/Neo-Nazi types) because of my ethnic background, appearance, a photo he saw of me as a kid and because I defiantly defend the most skilled basketball player of all-time, who happens to be white in a historically and predominantly black-dominated sport. I could almost write a fucking book on why he was, not the slightest to do with race which is where he draws the ironic humor from not to mention a heap of other personal stuff that would strongly underline the opposite. There's nothing to it, aside from that we're both opposed to the actions taken by the IDF in Gaza, but not anti-Semitic.

It's like calling Bogotazo a cocaine lord because he's Colombian, only with a lot more source material. All silliness. Some people catch things here and there, but don't really know the deal. It's actually pretty cliq-ky tbh and you're the first to say anything. Imagine most are either like "Erm OK" or ":blood" and that last one by PTF was pretty grim even for his standards that I had to completely side-step it. :lol:


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Of course, it is. :lol:
> 
> He - or, we - have a long running (admittedly very dark) gag that I'm somehow connected to Nazi Germany and modern day white supremacy (Aryan Brotherhood/Neo-Nazi types) because of my ethnic background, appearance, a photo he saw of me as a kid and because I defiantly defend the most skilled basketball player of all-time, who happens to be white in a historically and predominantly black-dominated sport. I could almost write a fucking book on why he was, not the slightest to do with race which is where he draws the ironic humor from not to mention a heap of other personal stuff that would strongly underline the opposite. There's nothing to it, aside from that we're both opposed to the actions taken by the IDF in Gaza, but not anti-Semitic.
> 
> It's like calling Bogotazo a cocaine lord because he's Colombian, only with a lot more source material. All silliness. Some people catch things here and there, but don't really know the deal. It's actually pretty cliq-ky tbh and you're the first to say anything. Imagine most are either like "Erm OK" or ":blood" and that last one by PTF was pretty grim even for his standards that I had to completely side-step it. :lol:


Well I love Larry Bird so I must a neo-Nazi too.


----------



## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> *Juan Manuel Marquez Resume*
> *Education:*
> 1st Class BSc (Hons) Roid Sciences, University of Roidsteinn
> *Employment:*
> ...


Are you laughing at your own lame jokes, you pathetic cunt?


----------



## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

I find this all very strange................... the term *'Roidistani'* that I threw around on this thread and other threads is ignored. [/QUOTE]
Because it isn't funny, you cunt, it's embarrassingly pathetic atsch


The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I mean what I say when I wish PityTheFool the best, and towards the end of my trolling prime I told him I haven't got the heart to troll him and do actually mean that lol


You delusional fuckwit, you aren't a troll, you're a fucking imbecile, no fuck off.


----------



## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> Well I love Larry Bird so I must a neo-Nazi too.


I'm tall, muscular and handsome with blond hair and blue eyes, but my cock has been circumcised, I'm so fucking confused.


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

DBerry said:


> I'm tall, muscular and handsome with blond hair and blue eyes, but my cock has been circumcised, I'm so fucking confused.


You Nazi Jew cunt!


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Of course, it is. :lol:
> 
> He - or, we - have a long running (admittedly very dark) gag that I'm somehow connected to Nazi Germany and modern day white supremacy (Aryan Brotherhood/Neo-Nazi types) because of my ethnic background, appearance, a photo he saw of me as a kid and because I defiantly defend the most skilled basketball player of all-time, who happens to be white in a historically and predominantly black-dominated sport. I could almost write a fucking book on why he was, not the slightest to do with race which is where he draws the ironic humor from not to mention a heap of other personal stuff that would strongly underline the opposite. There's nothing to it, aside from that we're both opposed to the actions taken by the IDF in Gaza, but not anti-Semitic.
> 
> It's like calling Bogotazo a cocaine lord because he's Colombian, only with a lot more source material. All silliness. Some people catch things here and there, but don't really know the deal. It's actually pretty cliq-ky tbh and you're the first to say anything. Imagine most are either like "Erm OK" or ":blood" and that last one by PTF was pretty grim even for his standards that I had to completely side-step it. :lol:


Go on! Write the book for me?
Please? :happy


----------



## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> You Nazi Jew cunt!


I keep locking the electric windows in the car and farting, I now can see I'm trying to gas myself.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Flea Man said:


> Well I love Larry Bird so I must a neo-Nazi too.


Yea?  So does Pity. I wrote him a couple short paragraphs

http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...errible-loss&p=1457556&viewfull=1#post1457556

But an unsavoury boxing reference killed the whole case for him.



PityTheFool said:


> Go on! Write the book for me?
> Please? :happy


See above. :verysad


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

DBerry said:


> I keep locking the electric windows in the car and farting, I now can see I'm trying to gas myself.


:lol:


----------



## hazza (Sep 2, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


>


damn, that gut is a dead giveaway. he's trying like hell to suck it in too. cunt looks preggo :lol:


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Yea?  So does Pity. I wrote him a couple short paragraphs
> 
> http://checkhookboxing.com/showthre...errible-loss&p=1457556&viewfull=1#post1457556
> 
> ...


:nono
The excellence of the rest of the piece meant I forgave you and fine you know it!
TBH,I just thought I could throw a little moan in so you would write another one.:lol:
You know I love dem Larry posts.


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

hazza said:


> damn, that gut is a dead giveaway. he's trying like hell to suck it in too. cunt looks preggo :lol:


In this day an age, it's funny to see some of you morons believing everything you see in photographs.:lol:


----------



## 4Rounder (May 22, 2013)

KTFO 6 :deal

Forever!:yep


----------



## igor_otsky (Jul 24, 2012)

Hatesrats said:


>


that's a nasty pinky. ffs

so hideous, pac passed out


----------



## ElKiller (Jun 14, 2014)

igor_otsky said:


> that's a nasty pinky. ffs
> 
> so hideous, pac passed out


Photoshopped:bart


----------



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

I'd be more surprised if JMM and at least half of the boxing elite WEREN'T on roids.


----------



## Klaus (Jun 20, 2014)

He was a clear roider. Anyone who doesn't think so is in denial in my opinion.


----------



## Klaus (Jun 20, 2014)

I don't know what happened in this thread, it's a shame that people were taking things too personal, I don't think this Gaul character said anything wrong per say in this thread, but this is a discussion thread more than a rigorous debating thread perhaps this is where Gaul went wrong.

I do suspect a lot of the boxers, it's easier to get away with it when you have understanding of cycles.


----------



## gyllespie (Jun 17, 2013)

1. If we are to assume someone is guilty based on tell tale signs then they both juiced at one point or another. So does it really matter? If you are to take away JMM's KO over Pac then you might as well take away Pac's big wins circa 2009.

2. JMM didn't need PEDs to beat Pac. He's been outboxing MP since they first fought. The way I see it, roiding was just a way to prevent the judges from robbing JMM.

3. Get over it. Pac himself accepts it as a legit loss. Any complaint is just sour grapes.


----------



## Klaus (Jun 20, 2014)

gyllespie said:


> 1. If we are to assume someone is guilty based on tell tale signs then they both juiced at one point or another. So does it really matter? If you are to take away JMM's KO over Pac then you might as well take away Pac's big wins circa 2009.
> 
> 2. JMM didn't need PEDs to beat Pac. He's been outboxing MP since they first fought. The way I see it, roiding was just a way to prevent the judges from robbing JMM.
> 
> 3. Get over it. Pac himself accepts it as a legit loss. Any complaint is just sour grapes.


At the end of the day, if you're rolling the dice and playing the game regardless of whether you are confused as to why the game has a lack of rules, by playing it you are accepting it as it is so you must get on with it. We don't know what Pacquiao was doing in his camp either but I think for me, JMM clearly roids and on that token, I wouldn't give a care in the world if the fight was an NC, I think it's most accurate to call it an NC when thinking about making my own judgement but it's a legal win at the end of the day.

All of this is just personal opinion, if someone wants to call it an NC or a legitimate win, they can say what they want and I'm not going to impose my opinion on anyone else that's for sure, especially given how dodgy Marquez has been in all of this.


----------



## JDK (Jun 3, 2013)

lol a no contest? 
if it helps you sleep better, go for it


----------



## Klaus (Jun 20, 2014)

JDK said:


> lol a no contest?
> if it helps you sleep better, go for it


:lol: had a great power nap just now.
No honestly, I see both sides of the argument. Unless proven outright to be wrong, in pro boxing it's about doing what you can get away with and what you get away with is what is legal. When there's no proof of actual PED usage, then a win is a win.

But, if there's certain things that you think are so suspicious to the extent that you believe, like many people here that Marquez IS on PED's, then as we know, anyone who has PED's and are caught for it, the match is rendered an NC regardless of whether the opponent is clean or not. 
So in reality, it's a knockout win for Marquez. But personal judgements on a fighters greatness may differ based as personal beliefs are usually considered. I know what when I consider the Chavez-Whitaker fight when thinking of Whitaker's greatness, I'd say Whitaker 'won' the fight and Chavez 'lost' because that's just how I scored the fight.

I also understand that some may prefer to keep it to what the professional scorecards say and etc. It's all up to the person.


----------



## igor_otsky (Jul 24, 2012)

Klaus said:


> He was a clear roider. Anyone who doesn't think so is in denial in my opinion.


no, they'll just shove a pac-getting-ktfo up yo azz


----------



## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

Klaus is Gaul btw, if anyone hasn't noticed yet


----------



## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

Klaus said:


> I don't know what happened in this thread, it's a shame that people were taking things too personal, I don't think this Gaul character said anything wrong per say in this thread, but this is a discussion thread more than a rigorous debating thread perhaps this is where Gaul went wrong.
> 
> I do suspect a lot of the boxers, it's easier to get away with it when you have understanding of cycles.


I think you & Gaul would get along very well

You both support the same football team, are big fans of Lomachenko & you post almost exclusively in the same threads & in the same style.


----------



## Klaus (Jun 20, 2014)

I'm a huge Chelsea fan. That should cause a division.


----------



## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

Klaus said:


> I'm a huge Chelsea fan. That should cause a division.


Really?



Klaus said:


> Arsene has gone absolutely crazy.
> Yaya Sanogoals and Danny Welbeck as well as Olivier Giroud who categorically isn't the world class striker Arsenal so badly need.
> Welbeck and Campbell are similar, Campbell is better. Welbeck is only a B rated footballer at best. He looks like Tempz too.
> Arsene did not buy a CDM.
> ...


One of several posts about Arsenal, no mention of Chelsea in your posting history until last night :conf


----------



## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

Gaul is a cock head of the highest order, what a cunt, what a lame, lame cunt.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

DBerry said:


> Gaul is a cock head of the highest order, what a cunt, what a lame, lame cunt.


I have been a twat to you because of the way you've been with me, returning like for like, we've both been idiots to eachother no matter how much we hide it :lol: At the end of the day we're both alike in a certain way don't even try and deny it, we're both stubborn bastards. I'm going to take you off ignore because CHB doesn't seem right without a DBerry.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

So why didn't Marquez KO that can Alvarado...or that Russian fella? Oh, they didn't go full tard and run into a right hand.


----------



## Klaus (Jun 20, 2014)

@*PityTheFool* this is Gaul here, I'm Klaus. You said what you needed to say and you really, really did go quite far with that too. 
I'm just not going to return fire with fire and start being mean and get into disagreements of this like, I honestly can't bring myself to be like that with you.



turbotime said:


> So why didn't Marquez KO that can Alvarado...or that Russian fella? Oh, they didn't go full tard and run into a right hand.


Because the chest acne was causing him pain so Marquez had to ease up. :smile
@*DrMo* you got me, this is Gaul, I am Klaus and I wanted a clean slate and be myself not an intense debater Gaul.

This forum seems to be dead/dying out. There's less and less posters logging in every day, notifications and avatars have gone too, and it's gotten so boring compared to this time last year for example - remember this time last year there were many posters and I'd stir controversy especially where Lomachenko was concerned and it had the whole forum buzzing in general.

I don't know what you guys all think...shall I keep Gaul going too to be the controversial party of the forum? I kind of fear that if I don't, it will get so boring that I'd end up not coming back here again. Especially now that my lifestyle is gonna be laughably busy from this time next week, forever.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Imagine posting as an alt to bump your own thread.
I'm going to give you a few home truths about yourself in the upcoming days because I know what your massive insecurities are you fucking dickhead.
A very good poster has left this forum and I know it started when you posted long forgotten info that was of a very traumatic and personal nature and another dickhead thought it was funny to keep posting about it.

I made a very bad judgement call thinking you were alright,but remember when I had to tell you to stop messaging me because you could start a fight doing a solo nightshift in a morgue?
Yeah you apologised to the guy(after I told you in a PM it was out of order)just like months before when you had been the biggest wanker in the forum,but you told me you would first,stop your pissy trolling,then much later that you would stop posting people's personal details when it has nothing to do with the forum argument or banter.
Then just as I predicted,you tried it here with me when you pretended you were the one in control.

Post all the :lol: smilies you want.You always revert to type and I wish I had listened to others when I told them you were actually an ok guy and they said I was wrong.
So save those little brown and pink fingertips son,because you will be exposed again in due course.
I was very wrong to think you were ok.The guys on this page or the last telling it how it really is were right.
Toodle-pip.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Klaus said:


> @*PityTheFool* this is Gaul here, I'm Klaus. You said what you needed to say and you really, really did go quite far with that too.
> I'm just not going to return fire with fire and start being mean and get into disagreements of this like, I honestly can't bring myself to be like that with you.
> 
> Because the chest acne was causing him pain so Marquez had to ease up. :smile
> ...


Jesus!atsch

I hadn't even seen that tag when I posted.
I went too far? Like you do all the time when the heat gets a bit much.

All your words are empty lies knob end.Remember I've heard it all before.
You've made an absolute prick of yourself here and many other times,and then best of all,you say less posters are logging on?:rolleyes

Good work genius.It's you who's stinking the place out.
Immature little bullshitter.Go and refer to your notes for your next attempt to discredit.Tika?


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

And "Pity,this is Gaul here"

No shit Sherlock!
I didn't need @DrMo to tell me that because I knew it was you right from the first post.
That's how desperately you need attention.

Why don't you put a poll up to see if you should hang around as you asked?


----------



## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> Imagine posting as an alt to bump your own thread.


:yep Its beyond pathetic, even talking about himself in the 3rd person.

You should see the PM I got this morning from Gaul:-( atsch


----------



## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> Imagine posting as an alt to bump your own thread.
> I'm going to give you a few home truths about yourself in the upcoming days because I know what your massive insecurities are you fucking dickhead.
> A very good poster has left this forum and I know it started when you posted long forgotten info that was of a very traumatic and personal nature and another dickhead thought it was funny to keep posting about it.
> 
> ...


What did he do? Who to?


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

DrMo said:


> :yep Its beyond pathetic, even talking about himself in the 3rd person.
> 
> You should see the PM I got this morning from Gaul:-( atsch


I've had them by the truckload mate.I know exactly how he goes.
Trying to get all reconciliatory but he's lied too many times.
Dirty lying bastard actually.This thread has almost every negative facet of his character.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Flea Man said:


> What did he do? Who to?


He got the ball rolling.I'll PM you later mate because I'm making my daughter's dinner but don't be surprised if you get a PM from someone else in the meantime.
It's not the kind of thing I like to reveal publicly,unlike that fucking disingenuous nancy boy.


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## Flea Man (Jun 2, 2012)

Okay @PityTheFool


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Imagine posting as an alt to bump your own thread.
> I'm going to give you a few home truths about yourself in the upcoming days because I know what your massive insecurities are you fucking dickhead.
> A very good poster has left this forum and I know it started when you posted long forgotten info that was of a very traumatic and personal nature and another dickhead thought it was funny to keep posting about it.
> I made a very bad judgement call thinking you were alright,but remember when I had to tell you to stop messaging me because you could start a fight doing a solo nightshift in a morgue?
> ...


There's a lot of emotion here from your part and you've repeated your points a lot. 
I don't know who you're talking about, if you're talking about a certain poster, I apologised to him (when I didn't need to AT ALL) and only mentioned something about what he did in the past because he was being aggressive and incredibly weird in his demeanour towards me. 
Start a fight doing a solo nightshift in a morgue? That's definitely not me. 
I haven't made a prick of myself in this thread at all, it was this very thread that set you off and I think it was uncalled for.

So at this stage there's a bunch of people sending eachother PM's about me :lol: this is fucking ridiculous. It's coming to the stage where it's a joke and I cannot believe there's 40+ year old men having a chat about me.

EDIT: Removed the name and the real name of the poster in question.



DrMo said:


> :yep Its beyond pathetic, even talking about himself in the 3rd person.
> 
> You should see the PM I got this morning from Gaul:-( atsch


Yeah it's no different to what I posted here already. I started 'Klaus' in June to be my normal self and eventually quit 'Gaul' as I retired from trolling.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

I think I might stay on here as Gaul. There's always the ignore function if people don't like me when I'm in _debating mode_.
I think you're all taking advantage of the fact that I have been apologetic/there being a limit to how far I'd take things. I don't owe anyone shit but yet I have been apologising whenever people felt I've taken things a little far, and I have been listening to what they have to say. If I didn't apologise or anything, there wouldn't be these types of discussions at all. You guys would just get mad and that's it.

I thought that you guys would give a second chance and get over things but whatever, I'm not going to be talking on this level to you guys again.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Cry us a river boy.
You justify it to yourself all you want,but this thread sums you up perfectly,lying and backtracking,saying you're away for a week then constantly posting( twice in the last week),trying to PM people when no one gives a fuck about you.
Have to admit though,you did give me a laugh when you made your first post as Klaus on the thread.

Laughing at you of course,not with you.
Now go get your personal attack notes or shut the fuck up.You are a shitty skidmark on the forum.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I think I might stay on here as Gaul. There's always the ignore function if people don't like me when I'm in _debating mode_.
> I think you're all taking advantage of the fact that I have been apologetic/there being a limit to how far I'd take things. I don't owe anyone shit but yet I have been apologising whenever people felt I've taken things a little far, and I have been listening to what they have to say. If I didn't apologise or anything, there wouldn't be these types of discussions at all. You guys would just get mad and that's it.
> 
> I thought that you guys would give a second chance and get over things but whatever, I'm not going to be talking on this level to you guys again.


Sorry,but this post is just too funny to ignore.
"You guys would give a second chance"
Like when I accepted your apology months ago and you saying recently you'd stop posting personal stuff?
Only for you to prove what a lying greasy slimy cunt you really are.

And as for your point about it only happening because you apologise.Well most of us know that this is a forum and people like you would never act like that in the trenches of real life.
If you said what you said about that poster in the company of decent people in real life,I'd have raced the guy to gauge your eye out first.
Don't think for a second I'm talking to you because you have me "trolled" or "mad"
I'm doing it purely for sport now,and it's a joy so no need to use the ignore function.
Love the sig where you use your alt BTW.I'll bet that pretty little girlfriend/cousin of yours thinks it's a hoot.
Salutations on winning that sweepstake.:cheers


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Haha FUCK these childish e-squabbles. Goodbye forever to the people who are annoyed even after personal apologies. I'm not the type to hold grudges, certainly not e-grudges. Any messages to me will be sent to the mods as it becomes spamming.

Back to Marquez. I was saying that if Marquez roids and Pac roids, it's an NC. If Marquez roids and Pac doesn't roid, it's an NC. If Pac roids and Marquez doesn't roid, it's an NC. I believe Marquez roided, whether Pac did or didn't doesn't change the fact that IMO it's an NC. 
People who think Marquez roided for that fight _should be consistent_ by calling the KTFO 6 an NC in their personal books, just as they say Mayweather-Canelo was like a 12-0 domination rather than an MD and just like Whitaker beat Chavez.

I WANT to say Marquez KTFO6 Pacquiao and I think if both were clean and there were a rematch, then Marquez would most probably KO Pacquiao due to Marquez's ring smarts.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Haha FUCK these childish e-squabbles. Goodbye forever to the people who are annoyed even after personal apologies. I'm not the type to hold grudges, certainly not e-grudges. Any messages to me will be sent to the mods as it becomes spamming.
> 
> Back to Marquez. I was saying that if Marquez roids and Pac roids, it's an NC. If Marquez roids and Pac doesn't roid, it's an NC. If Pac roids and Marquez doesn't roid, it's an NC. I believe Marquez roided, whether Pac did or didn't doesn't change the fact that IMO it's an NC.
> People who think Marquez roided for that fight _should be consistent_ by calling the KTFO 6 an NC in their personal books, just as they say Mayweather-Canelo was like a 12-0 domination rather than an MD and just like Whitaker beat Chavez.
> ...


God,you're a lying little creepy cunt.
I wish when you said goodbye you meant it,instead of decent posters leaving the forum because knobs like you stink the place out with your need for attention.
You are a joke who no one is fooled by,and after your stroke with a good poster,I'm gonna have a little fun with you boy.
How many people have looked at this thread and said "Gaul doing a great job there?" compared to how many are saying here and elsewhere that you are ruining the forum?
You are little turd and this is way beyond Marquez now.This is about reading through the thread and seeing what an absolute prick you are.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

"I'm away for a week because I have such a fantastic life"-posts minutes later
Lie after lie after lie after fucking lie.
You best put me on ignore boah,because just like the way you refused to give me peace I'm gonna give you some of that back.
In fact, there are plenty people who don't like me on this forum,but I don't feel the need to PM them to death,so how about a permaban bet between us.
Put up a public poll and see which one of us should go,and I'll honour it if I lose.
Will you?


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

An amazing war.
You've got to love Barrera in 2007 despite being past prime, taking Marquez right to the wire. Barrera a true ATG but Marquez gets his props for pulling it out of the bag.


----------



## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Cry us a river boy.
> You justify it to yourself all you want,but this thread sums you up perfectly,lying and backtracking,saying you're away for a week then constantly posting( twice in the last week),trying to PM people when no one gives a fuck about you.
> Have to admit though,you did give me a laugh when you made your first post as Klaus on the thread.
> 
> ...


You are arguing with a total fuckwit, a cunt who ran to the mods and complained because I quoted him, then two days later quotes me (@Bogotazo), an idiot so far up his own arse that he believes he is doing the forum a great service by posting here and an even greater service by "retiring from trolling", a shit cunt who thinks it is quite all right to post personal attacks littered with outright lies so long as he apologizes, a moron so wrapped up in his self-importance that he believes that he is above all on here and all the shit he spews. He is a shit stain on this forum, the only poster that I believe this forum would be genuinely better without. Any cunt who creates an alt, uses said alt. to praise himself then quotes it in his Sig. should have a good hard look at themselves then fuck off for good.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

DBerry said:


> You are arguing with a total fuckwit, a cunt who ran to the mods and complained because I quoted him, then two days later quotes me (@Bogotazo), an idiot so far up his own arse that he believes he is doing the forum a great service by posting here and an even greater service by "retiring from trolling", a shit cunt who thinks it is quite all right to post personal attacks littered with outright lies so long as he apologizes, a moron so wrapped up in his self-importance that he believes that he is above all on here and all the shit he spews. He is a shit stain on this forum, the only poster that I believe this forum would be genuinely better without. *Any cunt who creates an alt, uses said alt. to praise himself then quotes it in his Sig. should have a good hard look at themselves then fuck off for good.*


If only mate.
I'll give it my best shot though.:hey


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> An amazing war.
> You've got to love Barrera in 2007 despite being past prime, taking Marquez right to the wire. Barrera a true ATG but Marquez gets his props for pulling it out of the bag.


What a backtracking slimy little turd you are.:lol:
You really think people don't see that post for what it really is?


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

DBerry said:


> You are arguing with a total fuckwit, a cunt who ran to the mods and complained because I quoted him, then two days later quotes me (@Bogotazo), an idiot so far up his own arse that he believes he is doing the forum a great service by posting here and an even greater service by "retiring from trolling", a shit cunt who thinks it is quite all right to post personal attacks littered with outright lies so long as he apologizes, a moron so wrapped up in his self-importance that he believes that he is above all on here and all the shit he spews. He is a shit stain on this forum, the only poster that I believe this forum would be genuinely better without. Any cunt who creates an alt, uses said alt. to praise himself then quotes it in his Sig. should have a good hard look at themselves then fuck off for good.


I've taken you off ignore btw. I've been subjected to personal attacks myself - we've both been pretty bad..I respect the fact that you haven't insulted say..family or my girl but actually said something nice...you were classy where it mattered I really can't deny that/pretend not to respect that and it wouldn't even run through my mind to say something about your (beautiful) family either.

This isn't an apology though but I'm not going to be talking about your boxing, your past etc. I obviously didn't want to mention the respect I have for someone who gets into the ring because that'll just be praising you. You didn't take the whole boxing thing personal anyway you were chill about it but I'm not going to mention it.

I didn't have to fucking apologise to you. I did because I just didn't want you to go away thinking things are legit personal tbh as I don't see it that way. I think the e-wars we have are pretty funny but it did get to the stage where your posts about wanting me to kill myself or some shit in every single post even when I wasn't even talking to you, was just pure spamming.

I just posted that on my sig *after* I got found out as being Klaus.


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I've taken you off ignore btw. I've been subjected to personal attacks myself - we've both been pretty bad..I respect the fact that you haven't insulted say..family or my girl but actually said something nice...you were classy where it mattered I really can't deny that/pretend not to respect that and it wouldn't even run through my mind to say something about your (beautiful) family either.
> 
> This isn't an apology though but I'm not going to be talking about your boxing, your past etc. I obviously didn't want to mention the respect I have for someone who gets into the ring because that'll just be praising you. You didn't take the whole boxing thing personal anyway you were chill about it but I'm not going to mention it.
> 
> ...


Damn bro, you need to get a grip on life.


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## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I've taken you off ignore btw. I've been subjected to personal attacks myself - we've both been pretty bad..I respect the fact that you haven't insulted say..family or my girl but actually said something nice...you were classy where it mattered I really can't deny that/pretend not to respect that and it wouldn't even run through my mind to say something about your (beautiful) family either.
> 
> This isn't an apology though but I'm not going to be talking about your boxing, your past etc. I obviously didn't want to mention the respect I have for someone who gets into the ring because that'll just be praising you. You didn't take the whole boxing thing personal anyway you were chill about it but I'm not going to mention it.
> 
> ...


Just fuck off, idiot.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> Damn bro, you need to get a grip on life.


I'm just trying to make myself clear tbh


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I've taken you off ignore btw. I've been subjected to personal attacks myself - we've both been pretty bad..I respect the fact that you haven't insulted say..family or my girl but actually said something nice...you were classy where it mattered I really can't deny that/pretend not to respect that and it wouldn't even run through my mind to say something about your (beautiful) family either.
> 
> This isn't an apology though but I'm not going to be talking about your boxing, your past etc. I obviously didn't want to mention the respect I have for someone who gets into the ring because that'll just be praising you. You didn't take the whole boxing thing personal anyway you were chill about it but I'm not going to mention it.
> 
> ...


:SOK
Man the fuck up! You actually think anyone was ever fooled from the moment you posted as Klaus?
That's a little different to the things you were saying about him when I had the audacity to suggest he didn't give you a thought outwith the forum and he has far more important stuff to deal with.
You're really coming across as pathetic,and I will take a leaf out of your book and keep it going for as long as it amuses me.



Trash Bags said:


> Damn bro, you need to get a grip on life.


Honestly TB,you don't know the half of it mate.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I'm just trying to make myself clear tbh


Don't worry.You were absolutely crystal 3 pages in maximum.
You've been completely clear throughout the thread.


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> :SOK
> Man the fuck up! You actually think anyone was ever fooled from the moment you posted as Klaus?
> That's a little different to the things you were saying about him when I had the audacity to suggest he didn't give you a thought outwith the forum and he has far more important stuff to deal with.
> You're really coming across as pathetic,and I will take a leaf out of your book and keep it going for as long as it amuses me.
> ...


I can see that. I thought he was just some annoying dude, but some of you guys really hate his guts. Sucks to be him.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)




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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> I can see that. I thought he was just some annoying dude, but some of you guys really hate his guts. Sucks to be him.


Its easy and classless to throw bombs when it has become knowledge that I'm not going to be delivering it back.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> *I'm not going to respond to this, it's not going to get anywhere*. I have no need to vent as there's no emotions there to vent anyway.
> I don't know if anything is going on in your personal life beyond CHB, but if that is the case I hope it gets resolved. You shared personal matters with me in the more recent months and had more personal conversations and then just switch and forget everything from our past conversations. I'm not going to be pissing on that, it's not my style.
> 
> Speaking of styles, my posting style on WBF isn't going to change, so I don't know if you have me on ignore or not but it's definitely the best idea.
> ...


But you did anyway.Umpteen fucking times.



The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I've taken you off ignore btw. I've been subjected to personal attacks myself - we've both been pretty bad..I respect the fact that you haven't insulted say..family or my girl but actually said something nice...you were classy where it mattered I really can't deny that/pretend not to respect that and it wouldn't even run through my mind to say something about your (beautiful) family either.
> 
> *This isn't an apology though but I'm not going to be talking about your boxing, your past etc. I obviously didn't want to mention the respect I have for someone who gets into the ring because that'll just be praising you. You didn't take the whole boxing thing personal anyway you were chill about it but I'm not going to mention it.*
> 
> ...


But you'll mention it anyway.:rolleyes

Remember when you were PM'ng me about what a criminal scumbag Dale was,and I said if that was your POV then there's no point in talking to me because I've been no angel?
Now look at you.The thread has backfired horrendously.
@Trash Bags;
I don't hate him mate.Unlike him I have more important things to worry about like feeding my kids,but now his bullshit has indirectly led to a very good poster leaving,I'm gonna have my say on him and his lying,reptilian arse licking bullshit.
Ya feel me?


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## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Its easy and classless to throw bombs when it has become knowledge that I'm not going to be delivering it back.


You can say whatever you like about me, bro. I can take it. Why come on here to troll though? Aren't you a little old to be doing that?


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> *Its easy and classless to throw bombs* when it has become knowledge that I'm not going to be delivering it back.


Yeah but it's real classy to try and publicly humiliate someone over a traumatic incident that still haunts him and the background and suffering which led to that event is completely alien to you and your priveleged little life.
Yet you are still horribly insecure.

Don't even fucking try and talk about class fuckface.Saving up personal info to use in debates and banter is allowed up to a point that is clear to any mature person who doesn't have the need to be liked you have,but you went miles past that point so don't even fucking go there Israeli boy.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> You can say whatever you like about me, bro. I can take it. Why come on here to troll though? Aren't you a little old to be doing that?


Some posters don't mind, you're one of them in that case, you've never really taken things seriously/personally.

I honestly retired from it in June. Even the Lomatardism. I was away from the forum after the Lomachenko loss ban for almost two months longer than the ban length, by the time I returned I could barely muster up the courage to do the Loma-Russell Jr prediction thread. 
I retired because I thought it was just immature, I'm a guy in my early 20's and it's all just gimmicky, shitty and childish. I started 'Klaus' as a result as I wanted to stop posting on Gaul permeanently and just be myself, Klaus hence why it says I joined (Klaus) at June 2014.

I know there's a level of trolling on this thread on my part but this style of trolling is the sort that you see on ESB or some posters on CHB. It's the light hearted trolling with comments like 'don't trust anyone who is willing to drink their own piss' etc. these are purely meant for humour. For me, this is the limit now.

After that I just reacted to DBerry spamming me constantly to tell me to kill myself..one of my mates from school lived his whole life and continues to do so clinically depressed and at times he was suicidal and suicide is not really something to throw out there as an insult to anyone even if you don't mean it. A great poster on here also had these problems on a severe scale (it doesn't matter who) and he hasn't been seen on CHB in almost a year. That's just my perspective. So his spamming of that didn't go down very well with me.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Pity is talking about a 'traumatic event' where the poster was the aggressor in the incident. But I already told the poster that I was wrong and wouldn't say anything of the like again. Although the aggressor, seems like it was bad and I don't know what the poster went through, which is what further fuelled my apology.


----------



## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Pity is talking about a 'traumatic event' where the poster was the aggressor in the incident. But I already told the poster that I was wrong and wouldn't say anything of the like again. Although the aggressor, seems like it was bad and I don't know what the poster went through, which is what further fuelled my apology.


Perhaps you should, like, you know, fuck off.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Some posters don't mind, you're one of them in that case, you've never really taken things seriously/personally.
> 
> I honestly retired from it in June. Even the Lomatardism. I was away from the forum after the Lomachenko loss ban for almost two months longer than the ban length, by the time I returned I could barely muster up the courage to do the Loma-Russell Jr prediction thread.
> I retired because I thought it was just immature, I'm a guy in my early 20's and it's all just gimmicky, shitty and childish. I started 'Klaus' as a result as I wanted to stop posting on Gaul permeanently and just be myself, Klaus hence why it says I joined (Klaus) at June 2014.
> ...


I had a friend of over 20 years who was my only pal who shared my boxing obsession and who I halfed in with for a Ring Magazine monthly order in the days when it wasn't easy to get and there was no internet.
He hung himself in Feb 2010 and I still see the pain it causes his family.

Yet someone telling you to kill yourself is actually quite amusing to me.
So don't start playing the victim.The evidence of your lies can be covered in this thread alone,far less the many others.

And so fuck if the guy was the aggressor.He was a fucking child in a very stressful situation so shut the fuck up.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

DBerry said:


> Perhaps you should, like, you know, fuck off.


Have you seen the amount of times here and in other threads when he says "I'm off for a week so won't be posting" mate?

Umpteen times and he's never stopped posting for more than a day.


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## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> I had a friend of over 20 years who was my only pal who shared my boxing obsession and who I halfed in with for a Ring Magazine monthly order in the days when it wasn't easy to get and there was no internet.
> He hung himself in Feb 2010 and I still see the pain it causes his family.
> 
> Yet someone telling you to kill yourself is actually quite amusing to me.
> ...


I've never once pm'd this fool and have once or twice suggested topping himself is an option he should explore. This imbecile needs to learn the meanings of the words spamming trolling.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

DBerry said:


> I've never once pm'd this fool and have once or twice suggested topping himself is an option he should explore. This imbecile needs to learn the meanings of the words spamming trolling.


I prefer the advice in the first sentence mate.He is genuinely stinking out the forum.

I'm betting from experience you've had more than one PM from him though?


----------



## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Have you seen the amount of times here and in other threads when he says "I'm off for a week so won't be posting" mate?
> 
> Umpteen times and he's never stopped posting for more than a day.


Haha the cunt should change his name to The Sick Attention Whore, so the pathetic cunt pm'd you calling me a scumbag criminal? A bit ripe coming from a parasite who has contributed exactly nothing to society hahaha.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

DBerry said:


> Haha the cunt should change his name to The Sick Attention Whore, so the pathetic cunt pm'd you calling me a scumbag criminal? A bit ripe coming from a parasite who has contributed exactly nothing to society hahaha.


I could have said something like that I don't remember especially given the fact that I mentioned it to you before, too...and especially because you tried to threaten me with exactly that. Nevertheless, I did also tell him in a PM that I mean what I said in my apology PM to you. So it works both ways.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Well it seems apparent that twisting things and just displaying things in a bad light is what is going on here, and has been a recurring theme, and sure it is easy to misinterpret things that I've said even though I've categorically stated that I mean no malice and am openly just trolling in the past and even apologised and tried to make sure people take nothing personal and also stopped in instances where people felt it was a little too mean as I've always refused things from getting to the stage of crossing over from harmless funny trolling to cyber bullying. It should be funny to engage in general banter of stuff especially given that we've been chatting to eachother for over a year. I would add that one of the main reasons as I always stated why I fell out of love in trolling is that I realised that some posters who were getting the most mad either had legit personal problems or had mental illnesses and it's just no longer funny trolling when its to someone who just misintreprets the trolling as a result. 
This is truth and a big statement I'm making here but this obviously will be misinterpreted and further spammed by the REAL trolls of the forum.

It's especially easy and a complete laughable joke that someone can dish shit out knowing they're not going to get shit back. People can see how classless it is, especially for a 40+ year old. if I was pretty psychopathic I wouldn't hesitate to not only go hard talking back but to go deep into cyber bullying.


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## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Well it seems apparent that twisting things and just displaying things in a bad light is what is going on here, and has been a recurring theme, and sure it is easy to misinterpret things that I've said even though I've categorically stated that I mean no malice and am openly just trolling in the past and even apologised and tried to make sure people take nothing personal and also stopped in instances where people felt it was a little too mean as I've always refused things from getting to the stage of crossing over from harmless funny trolling to cyber bullying. It should be funny to engage in general banter of stuff especially given that we've been chatting to eachother for over a year. I would add that one of the main reasons as I always stated why I fell out of love in trolling is that I realised that some posters who were getting the most mad either had legit personal problems or had mental illnesses and it's just no longer funny trolling when its to someone who just misintreprets the trolling as a result.
> This is truth and a big statement I'm making here but this obviously will be misinterpreted and further spammed by the REAL trolls of the forum.
> 
> It's especially easy and a complete laughable joke that someone can dish shit out knowing they're not going to get shit back. People can see how classless it is, especially for a 40+ year old. if I was pretty psychopathic I wouldn't hesitate to not only go hard talking back but to go deep into cyber bullying.


You've got a nerve with this post, you vile little cretin. You are the low cunt who twists words, you take jokes and banter between other posters and twist the words to form attacks, throwing it back in the faces if said posters. You shove your fucking apologies right up your arse, too, cunt. It's a pattern with you, apologize then personally attack, rinse and repeat. And if you have issues with dealing with "40+ year old's" then fuck off, you immature little cretin.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> And so fuck if the guy was the aggressor.He was a fucking child in a very stressful situation so shut the fuck up.


I didn't really speak to him that often tbh, but we had a lot of shared interests in film and music. He'll be missed.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

DBerry said:


> You've got a nerve with this post, you vile little cretin. You are the low cunt who twists words, you take jokes and banter between other posters and twist the words to form attacks, throwing it back in the faces if said posters. You shove your fucking apologies right up your arse, too, cunt. It's a pattern with you, apologize then personally attack, rinse and repeat. And if you have issues with dealing with "40+ year old's" then fuck off, you immature little cretin.


I wasn't talking about you. 
I feel like in this thread, I've had myself misrepresented. Well that apology is always out there now that's how it is. 
No issues with 40+ year olds, but those who are taking advantage of the fact of me respecting my word and respecting the people themselves by not bringing my own onslaughts.

I told Pity I don't have it in me to be cruel etc. to him and he can say what he wants of me, but I meant that. We may not agree as posters and no one has to, but as a person I want the best for him. That's just how it is.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Well it seems apparent that twisting things and just displaying things in a bad light is what is going on here, and has been a recurring theme, and sure it is easy to misinterpret things that I've said even though I've categorically stated that I mean no malice and am openly just trolling in the past and even apologised and tried to make sure people take nothing personal and also stopped in instances where people felt it was a little too mean as I've always refused things from getting to the stage of crossing over from harmless funny trolling to cyber bullying. It should be funny to engage in general banter of stuff especially given that we've been chatting to eachother for over a year. I would add that one of the main reasons as I always stated why I fell out of love in trolling is that I realised that some posters who were getting the most mad either had legit personal problems or had mental illnesses and it's just no longer funny trolling when its to someone who just misintreprets the trolling as a result.
> This is truth and a big statement I'm making here but this obviously will be misinterpreted and further spammed by the REAL trolls of the forum.
> 
> It's especially easy and a complete laughable joke that someone can dish shit out knowing they're not going to get shit back. People can see how classless it is, especially for a 40+ year old. if I was pretty psychopathic I wouldn't hesitate to not only go hard talking back but to go deep into cyber bullying.


You really can't see how full of shit you are can you?atsch
You swore blind you were going to stop trolling then you try to troll and claim you have done successfully in this very thread.

You know your chickens are coming home to roost and you forget there are over ten pages of you contradicting what you've said in later pages?

You need to realise boy that it's not ok that you cross a line just because you apologise.
Especially when your apologies often contain about 95% lies and contradictions.

You always fall back on the "it was humour" excuse but with the very rare odd exception,no poster finds any of your shite funny,and your smillies don't fool anyone.

You only apologised to the poster who left after I PM'd you about it,and this thread contains enough lies to eliminate any need to look elsewhere for evidence.

Fuck!:lol:
You even tried to call in dealt with for a bit of help earlier in the thread but if he even looked,he probably had the good sense to see that a mutual love for Loma isn't worth backing up the nonsense you've posted here.

You started a troll thread and it bit you on the ass.
Now you're trying to limit the damage and it comes across making you seem even more pathetic.
You like to give it out but you can't take it back because you need validation.


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> I wasn't talking about you.
> I feel like in this thread, I've had myself misrepresented. Well that apology is always out there now that's how it is.
> No issues with 40+ year olds, but those who are taking advantage of the fact of me respecting my word and respecting the people themselves by not bringing my own onslaughts.
> 
> I told Pity I don't have it in me to be cruel etc. to him and he can say what he wants of me, but I meant that. We may not agree as posters and no one has to, but as a person I want the best for him. That's just how it is.


Stop talking as if you have the ability to "be cruel" or "troll" me if you want.
Accept my permaban bet or give it your best shot with your trolling and cruelty.You've done it umpteen other times to other people.

Hit me with your best shot.....


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## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> I didn't really speak to him that often tbh, but we had a lot of shared interests in film and music. He'll be missed.


Yeah he will mate.The type of guy who,because he stays within 15 miles of you,offers to help if you post about something that you only mentioned in passing.
TBF,Ariel was one of two,but the other one went hard at it after this kid's initial cruel and line crossing post.

Don't want to make out like the guy ran away crying,because that's a million miles away from how it went down,but I can't go further here.Ya feel me?
But it can't be easy having pricks bring that up because they have no retort that stays within boundaries that are unspoken.
I know people get called paedos and all sorts,but there are still some things a reasonably decent person knows is best left alone.

And me not posting for a few days meant I missed the chance to catch him,and I deleted a PM with details months ago because I never saw this coming.


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> Yeah he will mate.The type of guy who,because he stays within 15 miles of you,offers to help if you post about something that you only mentioned in passing.
> TBF,Ariel was one of two,but the other one went hard at it after this kid's initial cruel and line crossing post.
> 
> Don't want to make out like the guy ran away crying,because that's a million miles away from how it went down,but I can't go further here.Ya feel me?
> ...


Well I respected the fact that he didn't want it to be mentioned anymore from my own accord, I genuinely apologised and did not mention it again. I didn't actually have to apologise and vow not to mention it again..but because I meant the apology I followed through.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> Yeah he will mate.The type of guy who,because he stays within 15 miles of you,offers to help if you post about something that you only mentioned in passing.
> TBF,Ariel was one of two,but the other one went hard at it after this kid's initial cruel and line crossing post.
> 
> Don't want to make out like the guy ran away crying,because that's a million miles away from how it went down,but I can't go further here.Ya feel me?
> ...


Yeah, this place has gradually become less and less fun.


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## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

The Undefeated Gaul said:


> Well I respected the fact that he didn't want it to be mentioned anymore from my own accord, I genuinely apologised and did not mention it again. I didn't actually have to apologise and vow not to mention it again..but because I meant the apology I followed through.


You don't get it, do you?! Your apologies aren't worth shit. You have attacked people on here beyond any thing that is even close to reasonable, lied and twisted words, race-baited then apologized before repeating the attacks. You are like the boy who cried wolf. Once again, FUCK OFF!


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## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

DBerry said:


> You don't get it, do you?! Your apologies aren't worth shit. You have attacked people on here beyond any thing that is even close to reasonable, lied and twisted words, race-baited then apologized before repeating the attacks. You are like the boy who cried wolf. Once again, FUCK OFF!


I've always said if it's going too personal for someone or a little too far and if people are genuinely feeling that way, I'll stop and I did as I don't want them to take it personally, that's why I'm glad that the poster that was being mentioned earlier did tell me to stop because it was getting personal, and what was the result of it? I didn't post it anymore. Say what you want about me but you can't say I haven't kept my word just like I'm keeping my word with Pity when I said I don't have the heart to even attempt at trolling him let alone him getting personally offended.


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## Jose Lopez (Feb 4, 2014)

Pacquiao is a known PED user.

If JMM used steroids, then its fair play, cause Pac uses steroids, A-Side Meth, and other PEDs.


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## Jonnybravo (Jun 4, 2013)

Jose Lopez said:


> Pacquiao is a known PED user.
> 
> If JMM used steroids, then its fair play, cause Pac uses steroids, A-Side Meth, and other PEDs.


Proof or you're a lying sack of shit


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## DBerry (Jun 11, 2013)

Jonnybravo said:


> Proof or you're a lying sack of shit


Fucking this! If cunts are going to sling such defamatory accusations around then they must, MUST have something better than "his forehead is a bit larger than I'd like"!


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## Jonnybravo (Jun 4, 2013)

DBerry said:


> Fucking this! If cunts are going to sling such defamatory accusations around then they must, MUST have something better than "his forehead is a bit larger than I'd like"!


You lay down the law Dale :smile :bbb


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