# JMM's sudden chest acne (Photos)



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

I am now accepting theories other than steroid use. Go.


----------



## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

What are you insinuating?


----------



## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

Maybe he's allergic to piss.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> What are you insinuating?


JMM is my #1 favorite fighter of all time but it worries me that his sudden chest acne might be a damning sign of steroid use. The muscle gain is one thing, he clearly changed his training regimen and started lifting weights and doing other things. But this is different, much rarer, he's never had it before at weigh-ins, and this seems a bit like when Chael Sonnen in the UFC had terrible acne on his back he didn't have previously and was found to have 16 times the admissible amount of testosterone.

The thing is, people are going to see this and insinuate steroid use, it's a matter of time. This picture was posted on facebook by HBO and the #1 liked comment was an accusation of roids. So I'm here to consider how alarming chest acne is. I did a bit of research on adult acne and it could be a number of things, but if questioned, I'd like to hear him say something about it. The thing is, if JMM is juicing, this wasn't likely the first fight he was juicing, so why now with acne?

I can never hate 100% on fighters who get caught, because that would be acting as if for every fighter that gets caught there must be more that aren't and escape the heat. But it threatens his legacy. So I'm here to confront the issue rather than wait for it to suddenly spring up at the hands of haters desperate to discredit him. So like I said, I'm accepting alternative theories.


----------



## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> JMM is my #1 favorite fighter of all time but it worries me that his sudden chest acne might be a damning sign of steroid use. The muscle gain is one thing, he clearly changed his training regimen and started lifting weights and doing other things. But this is different, much rarer, he's never had it before at weigh-ins, and this seems a bit like when Chael Sonnen in the UFC had terrible acne on his back he didn't have previously and was found to have 16 times the admissible amount of testosterone.
> 
> The thing is, people are going to see this and insinuate steroid use, it's a matter of time. This picture was posted on facebook by HBO and the #1 liked comment was an accusation of roids. So I'm here to consider how alarming chest acne is. I did a bit of research on adult acne and it could be a number of things, but if questioned, I'd like to hear him say something about it. The thing is, if JMM is juicing, this wasn't likely the first fight he was juicing, so why now with acne?
> 
> I can never hate 100% on fighters who get caught, because that would be acting as if for every fighter that gets caught there must be more that aren't and escape the heat. But it threatens his legacy. So I'm here to confront the issue rather than wait for it to suddenly spring up at the hands of haters desperate to discredit him. So like I said, I'm accepting alternative theories.


It definitely threatens his legacy. The only time he was dominated, there was blood testing...


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I am now accepting theories other than steroid use. Go.


The body converting unnatural amounts of exogenous synthetic Testosterone to DHT is the main cause of that particular side. It also enlarges the oil glands and produces... More oil, which causes breakouts.


----------



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

Anybody's who's somebody is on something. e.g. bodybuilder Dennis Wolf:


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> It definitely threatens his legacy. The only time he was dominated, there was blood testing...


I don't think he was dominated against Tim, it was a competitive affair, and he didn't look much different in terms of his performance.



Hands of Iron said:


> The body converting unnatural amounts of exogenous synthetic Testosterone to DHT is the main cause of that particular side. It also enlarges the oil glands and produces... More oil, which causes breakouts.


Any *alternative* theories??

I've read change in diet, chest hair waxing (which I don't think he does), tight-fitting clothes during exercise, etc.


----------



## JDK (Jun 3, 2013)

Substance abuse most likely. Pretending top athletes are clean is simply naive.
Love his work anad craft, but hate the fact they insult the audience.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

doesn't look good man.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

smh y'all didn't read the OP.

What ELSE could it be, is my question.


----------



## JDK (Jun 3, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> smh y'all didn't read the OP.
> 
> What ELSE could it be, is my question.


What else other than what? 
Don't be shy Bogo


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> smh y'all didn't read the OP.
> 
> What ELSE could it be, is my question.


He went crazy on lean red meat, avocados, brazil nuts, almonds, oysters and garlic + being an Ultimate G = Naturally made test levels skyrocket.

:good


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

JDK said:


> What else other than what?





Bogotazo said:


> I am now accepting theories other than steroid use. Go.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)




----------



## ~Cellzki~ (Jun 3, 2013)

yeah saw that second pic today and the acne on the chest was the first thing i noticed. wouldn't be surprised tbh.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> He went crazy on lean red meat, avocados, brazil nuts, almonds, oysters and garlic + being an Ultimate G = Naturally made test levels skyrocket.
> 
> :good


:happy


----------



## gyllespie (Jun 17, 2013)

Pacquiao developed facial acne. They've faded since they emerged a year or two ago. But they were there. 

I believe JMM was juicing. But to me it makes very little difference. With PEDs he knocks out Pac. Without them he outboxes Manny. I am almost completely certain JMM was clean in their first 2 fights. You can make an argument that he won both fights. I doubt he juiced for the Barrera fight but who knows for sure. As for Juan's lesser but notable wins, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. No way he needed PEDs to beat guys like Diaz, Katsidis, Salido, and Casamayor.

As for theories other than steroids...could be a lack of proper hygiene. Dirty gym equipment and clothes can cause skin disorder. Maybe it's not even acne. But that's not something the avg boxing fan will buy. It sounds like clutching at straws. Let's just face it, a high number of pro boxers are/were juicing.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> :happy


1200 ng/dl :deal

Eat that stuff. Just don't overdo the Brazil nuts, toxic levels of selenium. Stuff starts tasting metallic... Can cause acne too. :conf


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

There's no point in speculating. Unless there's clear evidence, you'll only go crazy. We can come up with many theories but It wont matter. We'll never be certain. Something as simple as shaving, can cause that. It's happened to me before. Usually steroid users get acne in the back or shoulders. It's not that common in the chest. It's very hard to say. I personally don't think he's on them. He isn't doing anything abnormal, or something that can't be done. Ever since the steroid talks started, it's got everyone going crazy. It's a shame. But I understand the speculation since his trainers have that shady background. We'll just never know for sure, unless something comes up. It's also not fair for Marquez. I just don't believe they'd risk it knowing everything he has created in terms of his legacy. Hiring that trainer looked bad but at the same time, if he has nothing to hide, then it shouldn't matter. He gets tested and comes out clean. We can make theories about many boxers juicing, not just Marquez.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> There's no point in speculating. Unless there's clear evidence, you'll only go crazy. We can come up with many theories but It wont matter. We'll never be certain. Something as simple as shaving, can cause that. It's happened to me before. Usually steroid users get acne in the back or shoulders. It's not that common in the chest. It's very hard to say. I personally don't think he's on them. He isn't doing anything abnormal, or something that can't be done. Ever since the steroid talks started, it's got everyone going crazy. It's a shame. But I understand the speculation since his trainers have that shady background. We'll just never know for sure, unless something comes up. It's also not fair for Marquez. I just don't believe they'd risk it knowing everything he has created in terms of his legacy. Hiring that trainer looked bad but at the same time, if he has nothing to hide, then it shouldn't matter. He gets tested and comes out clean. We can make theories about many boxers juicing, not just Marquez.


Thank you my friend.


----------



## TSOL (Dec 15, 2013)

gyllespie said:


> I am almost completely certain JMM was clean in their first 2 fights. You can make an argument that he won both fights. I doubt he juiced for the Barrera fight but who knows for sure. As for Juan's lesser but notable wins, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. No way he needed PEDs to beat guys like Diaz, Katsidis, Salido, and Casamayor.
> 
> As for theories other than steroids...could be a lack of proper hygiene. Dirty gym equipment and clothes can cause skin disorder. Maybe it's not even acne. But that's not something the avg boxing fan will buy. It sounds like clutching at straws. Let's just face it, a high number of pro boxers are/were juicing.


yeah its only when joined up with Heredia in 2012 that he started looking weird. that guy even works for usain bolt


----------



## JohnAnthony (Jun 6, 2013)

being able to rise up 2/3 weight classes at the age of 38 to 40, and have one punch knock out power is questionable.

but who knows really.

i agree there should be proper testing


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Thank you my friend.


Heredia isn't an automatic death sentence and guilty charge. You don't need steroids to look like Juan FFS :rofl -- some people just need... a trainer, nutritionist. :lol:

I don't know... I was really entertained tonight again and I'm grateful. I like having Juan around and fighting at the top level of the sport.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Heredia isn't an automatic death sentence and guilty charge. You don't need steroids to look like Juan FFS :rofl -- some people just need... a trainer, nutritionist. :lol:
> 
> I don't know... I was really entertained tonight again and I'm grateful. I like having Juan around and fighting at the top level of the sport.


Yeah, I'm trying to not let this distract me from enjoying the performance, which I thought was class. And you're right, the appearance and weight gain can be attributed to the weight training and ploymetric training that we know he'd never done before. And on that note, JMM looked nicely "de-bulked" tonight. Smooth, quick, lighter on his feet, not like he looked against Fedchenko and Pac 4 or even Bradley. He looked like his old lightweight self.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

JohnAnthony said:


> being able to rise up 2/3 weight classes at the age of 38 to 40, and have one punch knock out power is questionable.
> 
> but who knows really.
> 
> i agree there should be proper testing


Not necessarily. This is a man who is heavier, known to hit hard (Dinamita), and that started strength training. And by the way, he knocked out another small Welter in Pacman, with a perfect punch. It's not like he's not showing any weaknesses. He looks slower than ever. He's lost much of his movement and clearly gets more tired. He gets away with things with skill and intelligence but at this stage of his career, he relies on strength and hoping to land big shots. He was losing vs Pacquiao before he KO'd him and he lost to Bradley. Marquez is still class but it's clear he isn't the same fighter. Doubt he's on something.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Honestly, I got very alarmed by the acne as well. It's not just a little bit either. He has it on his chest and back


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Honestly, I got very alarmed by the acne as well. It's not just a little bit either.* He has it on his chest and back*


Yeah? Pics?


----------



## It's Ovah (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogo.

I've long made peace with the idea that every top boxer is juicing. You should too. It'll save you a lot of grief and allow you to enjoy any fight or fighter to your heart's content.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah? Pics?


I'll try to find pics, but if you can rewatch the broadcast, look for him Buffer is announcing his name in the ring. I was pointing out Juan's acne on his chest and as I do that, Juan bends down and touches the floor for about 20 seconds. You could see it on his back then too


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I watched the fight on HD, but I don't see anything in this pic


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I'll try to find pics, but if you can rewatch the broadcast, look for him Buffer is announcing his name in the ring. I was pointing out Juan's acne on his chest and as I do that, Juan bends down and touches the floor for about 20 seconds. You could see it on his back then too


Ah right. I'll look out for it.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I watched the fight on HD, but I don't see anything in this pic


Yeah that looks more like freckles if anything.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah that looks more like freckles if anything.


yeah that pic is pretty inconclusive there


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> yeah that pic is pretty inconclusive there


I've read the back might be more suspect than the chest? Not sure.


----------



## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

Must be sharing Hughie Fury's lunch...


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I've read the back might be more suspect than the chest? Not sure.


:yep I'm not sure. I'm not a PED expert. Relentless used to know a good amount about this, but obviously he's gone


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Felix said:


> Must be sharing Hughie Fury's lunch...


It's those damn avocados!



bballchump11 said:


> :yep I'm not sure. I'm not a PED expert. Relentless used to know a good amount about this, but obviously he's gone


Ah, yeah. Guy couldn't keep racial slurs out of his mouth, ban after ban.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> It's those damn avocados!
> 
> Ah, yeah. Guy couldn't keep racial slurs out of his mouth, ban after ban.


:lol: yeah true. When you got him and Oneshot in the same thread, I used to die with laughter


----------



## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> It's those damn avocados!
> 
> Ah, yeah. Guy couldn't keep racial slurs out of his mouth, ban after ban.


I dunno if you saw Hughie's fight last week or whenever it was, but his back was like a relief map of the moon. Puberty's really dragging out for the poor kid.


----------



## RDJ (Jun 27, 2012)

gyllespie said:


> As for theories other than steroids...could be a lack of proper hygiene. Dirty gym equipment and clothes can cause skin disorder. Maybe it's not even acne. But that's not something the avg boxing fan will buy. It sounds like clutching at straws. Let's just face it, a high number of pro boxers are/were juicing.


It's likely roids but this is semi-plausible as well. Half of our gym had herpes at the same time, not sure who caused it but everyone who sparred had a herpes face.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Felix said:


> I dunno if you saw Hughie's fight last week or whenever it was, but his back was like a relief map of the moon. Puberty's really dragging out for the poor kid.


Nah haven't seen it. Perhaps would explain his personality, still hasn't outgrown that awkward phase yet.



bballchump11 said:


> :lol: yeah true. When you got him and Oneshot in the same thread, I used to die with laughter


I enjoyed oneshot from time to time, not gonna lie. His fury was just hilarious.


----------



## igor_otsky (Jul 24, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> I watched the fight on HD, but I don't see anything in this pic


That motherfucker was blocking that tits.


----------



## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

It's a possibility on the other hand he has been working with Memo since the third Pac fight and was more muscular in his last fight sand didn't have any acne then. Is it a possibility yes is it the only explanation no but I'm not gonna think about it too much he's my favourite fighter and I wouldn't even care if he if he wasn't the only way of proving anything is a positive drug test which he hasn't had. By the way I have seen many boxers with acne where it just was less obvious because they had darker or just different skin


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah, I'm trying to not let this distract me from enjoying the performance, which I thought was class. And you're right, the appearance and weight gain can be attributed to the weight training and ploymetric training that we know he'd never done before. And on that note, JMM looked nicely "de-bulked" tonight. Smooth, quick, lighter on his feet, not like he looked against Fedchenko and Pac 4 or even Bradley. He looked like his old lightweight self.


Yeah I was noticing and thinking to myself that he was looking like he did in his Lightweight days out there tonight.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


----------



## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Second puberty


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> smh y'all didn't read the OP.
> 
> What ELSE could it be, is my question.


Pregnancy?


----------



## tezel8764 (May 16, 2013)

What kind of indirect thread is this? :lol:


----------



## Someguy101 (Jun 4, 2013)

*JMM.....why assume steroids???*

So he has chest acne.....that just means he has high testosterone. Yes steroids can do this but theres also LEGAL drugs that trick the body into naturally producing testosterone.

So an aging fighter uses these to combat age? Big deal hes just stopping the effects of age hes not taking performance enhancing drugs.

If hes taking something that makes his body naturally produce testosterone then hes preventing age decline but at the same time skill using his boxing skill to win.


----------



## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Pregnancy?


Does the piss testing even look for that?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Someguy101 said:


> So he has chest acne.....that just means he has high testosterone. Yes steroids can do this but theres also LEGAL drugs that trick the body into naturally producing testosterone.
> 
> So an aging fighter uses these to combat age? Big deal hes just stopping the effects of age hes not taking performance enhancing drugs.
> 
> If hes taking something that makes his body naturally produce testosterone then hes preventing age decline but at the same time skill using his boxing skill to win.


Yeah? What kind of drugs are you talking about?

This is the kind of response I was looking for; it's easy to point and yell "steroids", but I'm curious about alternative explanations. It's all speculation any which way.


----------



## doylexxx (Jun 9, 2012)

Fuck sake acne AND reyes gloves

Imagine he fights Floyd again,. the screams about Mayweathers health would never end


----------



## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I don't think he was dominated against Tim, it was a competitive affair, and he didn't look much different in terms of his performance.
> 
> That's true. I meant against Mayweather.


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

rjjfan said:


> Anybody's who's somebody is on something. e.g. bodybuilder Dennis Wolf:


People built like this, would be the easiest people to batter. How the hell can you do anything when you're as restricted as that?


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I've read the back might be more suspect than the chest? Not sure.


The back is generally the tell tale sign.


----------



## Reppin501 (May 16, 2013)

I just rewatched the introductions, and when he bends over you can see he does have back/shoulder acne...


----------



## Duffy (Jun 13, 2013)

This guy is such a juicer it's ridiculous. He's not even trying to hide it anymore.


----------



## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

Duffy said:


> This guy is such a juicer it's ridiculous. He's not even trying to hide it anymore.


that's why he's agreed to osd testing twice. makes sense.


----------



## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah? What kind of drugs are you talking about?
> 
> This is the kind of response I was looking for; it's easy to point and yell "steroids", but I'm curious about alternative explanations. It's all speculation any which way.


Tribulus Terrestris, Eurycoma longifolia, D-Aspartic Acid, some metabolites of DHEA.
Just off the top of my head.
I'm not sure if they are banned or not though :conf


----------



## Mr Magic (Jun 3, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> that's why he's agreed to osd testing twice. makes sense.


He also has Angel Heredia who boasts and brags about being able to cheat the tests that are available.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dazl1212 said:


> Tribulus Terrestris, Eurycoma longifolia, D-Aspartic Acid, some metabolites of DHEA.
> Just off the top of my head.
> 
> *I'm not sure if they are banned or not though* :conf


No :lol:


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah, I'm trying to not let this distract me from enjoying the performance, which I thought was class. And you're right, the appearance and weight gain can be attributed to the weight training and ploymetric training that we know he'd never done before. And on that note, JMM looked nicely "de-bulked" tonight. Smooth, quick, lighter on his feet, not like he looked against Fedchenko and Pac 4 or even Bradley. He looked like his old lightweight self.


Was honestly a little shocked to see you creating this thread immediately afterwards. Those combinations were mint, JMM is god damn aesthetically pleasing and highly enjoyable to watch... And to the other point, it's a much more plausible idea than most people would care or bother to entertain, unfortunately.


----------



## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

He's 40 and in a pot sport with millions of dollars. Why is it a surprise lol. Nothing that serious as peopke make


----------



## LuckyLuke (Jun 6, 2013)

JDK said:


> Substance abuse most likely. Pretending top athletes are clean is simply naive.
> Love his work anad craft, but hate the fact they insult the audience.


Not really.
Or do you think every top boxer isnt clean? There are boxers who are not clean (JMM is one of them) and some are clean.


----------



## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> No :lol:


Ah cool.
Some of them can potentially cause you to fail a PED test.


> While in vitro and animal studies have suggested potential uses for 7-Keto in humans, there is currently insufficient scientific evidence to support its use as a weight-loss aid, muscle-builder, immune stimulant, or for any other clinical use.[5] Nevertheless, 7-Keto is marketed as a dietary supplement with the implication that it may accelerate weight loss, increase metabolism, enhance memory, or prevent age-related changes. When used in a topical (skin lotion) product 7-Keto caused long-lasting changes in the body's levels of testosterone, epitestosterone, estradiol, and other steroid hormones.[6] Researchers have raised concern that supplements may trigger positive tests for performance-enhancing drugs.[7][8]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-Keto-DHEA


----------



## Danimal (Oct 9, 2013)

Could be ingrown hairs. Plausible to think he's getting hairier as he gets older and maybe he gets waxed or shaved. If he then works out and sweats loads he could get ingrown and infected follicles.


----------



## R00ster (Jan 29, 2014)

Came here to post this thread. I've been convinced since the last Pac fight he's juiced to the gills.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dazl1212 said:


> Ah cool.
> Some of them can potentially cause you to fail a PED test.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-Keto-DHEA


That would be a god damn shame :lol:

There's just no replacement for pharmaceutical grade Testosterone. Imagine getting smeared for failing off some inferior over the counter supp due to hormonal balances being swung and manipulated but without near the same benefits.


----------



## alwaysdrunk (Mar 29, 2014)

Negates his win over pac, JMM is a drug cheat


----------



## Boogle McDougal (Jun 8, 2012)

Accusations and rumors of PED use mean very little without solid proof - a positive test. Case in point: Evander Holyfield. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Was honestly a little shocked to see you creating this thread immediately afterwards. Those combinations were mint, JMM is god damn aesthetically pleasing and highly enjoyable to watch... And to the other point, it's a much more plausible idea than most people would care or bother to entertain, unfortunately.


Hell yeah.


----------



## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> That would be a god damn shame :lol:
> 
> There's just no replacement for pharmaceutical grade Testosterone. Imagine getting smeared for failing off some inferior over the counter supp due to hormonal balances being swung and manipulated but without near the same benefits.


I know :rofl
You'd be surprised what you can get OTC though.
Google Superdrol :nod


----------



## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

alwaysdrunk said:


> Negates his win over pac, JMM is a drug cheat


And you think Pac is CLEAN?

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dazl1212 said:


> I know :rofl
> You'd be surprised what you can get OTC though.
> Google Superdrol :nod


Daz, why do I feel like we've discussed this sort of topic before? :lol: :huh

I'm kicking it all natural - and giving it 110% - without any AAS or prohormones for the next 2 years and 10 months or so. That obviously doesnt including herbs like Terrestris or Eurycoma which I haven't tried, it's just that I already got enough supps as it is, you know? When I hit 30, I'll make an assessment of where I'm at and how I pleased I am. If it isn't up to par, then I'll probably look into running some Test Enth (500-600 mg) for 12 weeks with a side of DBol (40 mg) for the first six. Basic bread-and-butter, guaranteed results with your training, nutrition and rest on point. Also don't need to load up on copious amounts of PCT drugs with no Deca-Durabolin in the mix, just some Nolva for around four weeks. Maybe Clomid as well to be safe.


----------



## the cobra (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


>


Did he dye his hair? I swear he looks younger now than he did a couple years ago.


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

MEXAMELAC said:


> There's no point in speculating. Unless there's clear evidence, you'll only go crazy. We can come up with many theories but It wont matter. We'll never be certain. Something as simple as shaving, can cause that. It's happened to me before. Usually steroid users get acne in the back or shoulders. It's not that common in the chest. It's very hard to say. I personally don't think he's on them. He isn't doing anything abnormal, or something that can't be done. Ever since the steroid talks started, it's got everyone going crazy. It's a shame. But I understand the speculation since his trainers have that shady background. We'll just never know for sure, unless something comes up. It's also not fair for Marquez. I just don't believe they'd risk it knowing everything he has created in terms of his legacy. Hiring that trainer looked bad but at the same time, if he has nothing to hide, then it shouldn't matter. He gets tested and comes out clean. We can make theories about many boxers juicing, not just Marquez.


Occam's Razor suggests it's steroids. It takes a leap of the imagination to come up with another theory, or to just flat out ignore it like you seem to be suggesting.


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

Danimal said:


> Could be ingrown hairs. Plausible to think he's getting hairier as he gets older and maybe he gets waxed or shaved. If he then works out and sweats loads he could get ingrown and infected follicles.


Ingrown hairs don't cause those greasy, pussy, boil like spots. Ingrown hairs are more red, inflamed and itchy type spots.


----------



## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Daz, why do I feel like we've discussed this sort of topic before? :lol: :huh
> 
> I'm kicking it all natural - and giving it 110% - without any AAS or prohormones for the next 2 years and 10 months or so. That obviously doesnt including herbs like Terrestris or Eurycoma which I haven't tried, it's just that I already got enough supps as it is, you know? When I hit 30, I'll make an assessment of where I'm at and how I pleased I am. If it isn't up to par, then I'll probably look into running some Test Enth (500-600 mg) for 12 weeks with a side of DBol (40 mg) for the first six. Basic bread-and-butter, guaranteed results with your training, nutrition and rest on point. Also don't need to load up on copious amounts of PCT drugs with no Deca-Durabolin in the mix, just some Nolva for around four weeks. Maybe Clomid as well to be safe.


I think we might have mate.
Thats a very nice cycle so I'm told :yep

Got myself ten vials of enath and 50 dbols.
Gonna lean up soon, hitting the diet hard with some "assistance" then I'll probs jump on the other stuff six weeks before the holiday :yep


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Ah right. I'll look out for it.





bballchump11 said:


> yeah that pic is pretty inconclusive there





Zopilote said:


> Yeah I was noticing and thinking to myself that he was looking like he did in his Lightweight days out there tonight.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk





Brnxhands said:


> He's 40 and in a pot sport with millions of dollars. Why is it a surprise lol. Nothing that serious as peopke make


We'll never get an answer as definitive as the Roger Clemens one from a few years back. Still fuckin kills me how they chopped Brian McNamee (the guy who snitched) and Mike Wallace FFS :rofl into it all.








Felix said:


> Hell yeah.


:deal



Dazl1212 said:


> I think we might have mate.
> Thats a very nice cycle so I'm told :yep
> 
> Got myself ten vials of enath and 50 dbols.
> Gonna lean up soon, hitting the diet hard with some "assistance" then I'll probs jump on the other stuff six weeks before the holiday :yep


Aren't we like the same age? Good luck, man! :good


----------



## Pork N Chili (Jun 3, 2013)

Marquez is on some form of PED - that much should be clear - however PEDs can only help so much.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

2manyusernames said:


> Occam's Razor suggests it's steroids. It takes a leap of the imagination to come up with another theory, or to just flat out ignore it like you seem to be suggesting.


You can believe whatever you want. But unless you have more proof other than just acne, you're not going to convince many. Point here is that nobody knows. Is it possible to be on steroids and NOT have acne? Yes.

Go for it, try and solve it yourself Sherlock.


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

MEXAMELAC said:


> You can believe whatever you want. But unless you have more proof other than just acne, you're not going to convince many. Point here is that nobody knows. Is it possible to be on steroids and NOT have acne? Yes.
> 
> Go for it, try and solve it yourself Sherlock.


I can't prove it the same way I can't prove God or Allah or the flying spaghetti monster.

But I don't think he has adult acne.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

2manyusernames said:


> I can't prove it the same way I can't prove God or Allah or the flying spaghetti monster.
> 
> But I don't think he has adult acne.


That's a bad analogy. This isn't about faith or sci-fi.

That's fine, that you don't think he has adult acne. He probably doesn't. But it also doesn't mean he's doing steroids. If we go that route, you know how many theories I can come up with about other fighters? Maybe Bradley, Mayweather and Pacman are also on steroids. Shit, why watch sports then?


----------



## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

No doubt in my mind that he's been using. I think he was using for the Pacquiao fight too. Also Acne is a great indicator.


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

MEXAMELAC said:


> That's a bad analogy. This isn't about faith or sci-fi.
> 
> That's fine, that you don't think he has adult acne. He probably doesn't. But it also doesn't mean he's doing steroids. If we go that route, you know how many theories I can come up with about other fighters? Maybe Bradley, Mayweather and Pacman are also on steroids. Shit, why watch sports then?


You're right; there's more evidence for JMM taking steroids than the existence of God. So bad analogy.

And yes, all sports are riddled with drug taking. For a period in cycling _everyone_ was juicing and you'd be at a huge disadvantage if you didn't too. It is what it is. That is the world we live in. Where Barry Bonds will always have an asterix by his name. Where Lance Armstrong is still a hero. Where Peterson gets to keep his belt for taking testosterone. I still enjoy watching sports none the less.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

2manyusernames said:


> You're right; there's more evidence for JMM taking steroids than the existence of God. So bad analogy.
> 
> And yes, all sports are riddled with drug taking. For a period in cycling _everyone_ was juicing and you'd be at a huge disadvantage if you didn't too. It is what it is. That is the world we live in. Where Barry Bonds will always have an asterix by his name. Where Lance Armstrong is still a hero. Where Peterson gets to keep his belt for taking testosterone. I still enjoy watching sports none the less.


For all those guys you mentioned, there's a bunch of CLEAR, undeniable evidence. When you get the same for Marquez, you can come back and present it. I'll be here waiting.


----------



## allenko1 (Jun 27, 2012)

never been caught. now of course there are ways around it, lord knows but, he's been in question for while now and nothing has come up. In California, they are known for giving you a strict exam. We'll see...


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

MEXAMELAC said:


> For all those guys you mentioned, there's a bunch of CLEAR, undeniable evidence. When you get the same for Marquez, you can come back and present it. I'll be here waiting.


They all demand their innocence, before they get caught.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

2manyusernames said:


> They all demand their innocence, before they get caught.


Still doesn't mean they are all guilty.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> That's true. I meant against Mayweather.


Oh. Well, terrible style match-up, ATG fighter, and this was before he adjusted his strength & conditioning program.



SJS20 said:


> The back is generally the tell tale sign.


Thanks.



Hands of Iron said:


> Was honestly a little shocked to see you creating this thread immediately afterwards. Those combinations were mint, JMM is god damn aesthetically pleasing and highly enjoyable to watch... And to the other point, it's a much more plausible idea than most people would care or bother to entertain, unfortunately.


Yeah well, it was bothering me. I'd rather take control of the conversation than let trolls run away with it.

I'll probably write up a review soon. You're exactly right about the aesthetics of the fight, so smooth. Some of those counters were just so satisfying, and I'd missed the combinations (it's not something he can do against the ever-moving Pacquiao or the defensive Tim Bradley).



the cobra said:


> Did he dye his hair? I swear he looks younger now than he did a couple years ago.


He fixed his balding somehow. No more jagged widow's peak revealing bald spots.


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

MEXAMELAC said:


> Still doesn't mean they are all guilty.


Occam's Razor. I'll believe what's most likely.


----------



## SJS20 (Jun 8, 2012)

What we need, is much more open broadcasting.

Marquez should of been congratulated on his win, and then told that there was mass public concern due to the achne he's developed recently. Could he please clarify (in his own language, to avoid mus-interpretation) what is going on.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

SJS20 said:


> What we need, is much more open broadcasting.
> 
> Marquez should of been congratulated on his win, and then told that there was mass public concern due to the achne he's developed recently. Could he please clarify (in his own language, to avoid mus-interpretation) what is going on.


Right, I think if given the chance, he'd have no problems responding. That would put me at ease .I just think the public awareness/concern has been slow; it's only since the weigh-in and now since the post-fight photos have come out that it's trending even a little bit.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

2manyusernames said:


> Occam's Razor. I'll believe what's most likely.


 Occam's Razor proves jack shit ha. As a matter of fact, you're not even applying it the right way. You're ignoring key things. Like the FACT that he's been taking top of the line drug testing. You'll never be able to prove shit with the type of info you call "evidence". You really believe ACNE is going to make you win this case? That's what's backing Occam's Razor lol? You're approaching this like an elementary science project.


----------



## DudeGuyMan (Jul 24, 2012)

Trash Bags said:


> Maybe he's allergic to piss.


:rofl


----------



## 2manyusernames (Jun 14, 2012)

MEXAMELAC said:


> Occam's Razor proves jack shit ha. As a matter of fact, you're not even applying it the right way. You're ignoring key things. Like the FACT that he's been taking top of the line drug testing. You'll never be able to prove shit with the type of info you call "evidence". You really believe ACNE is going to make you win this case? That's what's backing Occam's Razor lol? You're approaching this like an elementary science project.


Nope, I'm using it correctly. I've already said I can't _prove_ anything. So there's no need to repeat what I've already answered.

For every one of your points, there's a counterpoint. Marion Jones never failed a test. Passed more than 160 drug tests, while juicing the whole time. So forgive me for not putting too much faith in the validity of drug tests.


----------



## ThenewFelixTrinidad (May 2, 2014)

Marquez is probably on PEDS(or was). It doesn't matter that much though because it's still a suspicion.

The ones that worry me are the ones who's clearly been caught, their career than follow signs of PED use YET they still are allowed to fight.

Vitali Klitschko is a great example. The guy admitted to using steroids when he was young and he admitted to using it to get ready for the Olympics, he than suffer chronic PED related injuries all throughout his career, yet it's all brushed under the rug.

For me that's particularly annoying.

Marquez/Pac/Floyd are all under suspicion(rightfully so) but no concrete evidence.

I asked my Uncle about the acne on chest and he said the one case he could remember that wasn't PED related was extensive oil in diet among elite athletes.

Like if you ate oil heavy food for 3-4 months in a row, acne will start developing on the body. But in most cases of that particular situation, the face will have heavy acne as well. 
Marquez's face looks fine. So I don't know......


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

2manyusernames said:


> Nope, I'm using it correctly. I've already said I can't _prove_ anything. So there's no need to repeat what I've already answered.
> 
> For every one of your points, there's a counterpoint. Marion Jones never failed a test. Passed more than 160 drug tests, while juicing the whole time. So forgive me for not putting too much faith in the validity of drug tests.


That's not a counterpoint at all because Marion Jones failed a drug test. Like I said, when you have this type of evidence, I'll believe it. You haven't presented anything but assumptions. Sorry but that's not how it works. You can't sway me to believe he's on steroids based on Acne. This isn't elementary school.


----------



## Dazl1212 (May 16, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> We'll never get an answer as definitive as the Roger Clemens one from a few years back. Still fuckin kills me how they chopped Brian McNamee (the guy who snitched) and Mike Wallace FFS :rofl into it all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm 30 in December:-(

Thanks man :good


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> He fixed his balding somehow.


:lol:

He's quite an interesting subject.


----------



## alwaysdrunk (Mar 29, 2014)

Last fight Pac punched JMM in the chest, Zits exploded into Pcas eyes temporally blinding him, setting him up for the KO punch.

JMM is a drug cheat, only got the KO because of zit juice.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Dazl1212 said:


> I'm 30 in December:-(


:sad5


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

alwaysdrunk said:


> Last fight Pac punched JMM in the chest, Zits exploded into Pcas eyes temporally blinding him, setting him up for the KO punch.
> 
> JMM is a drug cheat, only got the KO because of zit juice.


:lol:atsch


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> :lol:atsch


Slick edit there. :lol:


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Slick edit there. :lol:


:yep took another good look at his post..thought it was appropriate.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


----------



## KERRIGAN (Jul 25, 2012)

RDJ said:


> It's likely roids but this is semi-plausible as well. Half of our gym had herpes at the same time, not sure who caused it but everyone who sparred had a herpes face.


One more reason why guys in a boxing gym shouldn't be kissing each other in the locker room.


----------



## XavierHollywood (Jun 5, 2013)

I never had bacne my entire life until I started seriously weight training in my early 20s. I didnt take any supplements other then whey protein and other then eating a bit more I didnt really change anything else in my lifestyle. Regardless, my back blew up with zits. Was a nightmare. Still get them occasionally but not like before. Unfortunately, I have shit ton of scarred marks on my back left over that probably wont ever go away.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

XavierHollywood said:


> I never had bacne my entire life until I started seriously weight training in my early 20s. I didnt take any supplements other then whey protein and other then eating a bit more I didnt really change anything else in my lifestyle. Regardless, my back blew up with zits. Was a nightmare. Still get them occasionally but not like before. Unfortunately, I have shit ton of scarred marks on my back left over that probably wont ever go away.


This happened when I started doing both boxing and weight-training. But the question is, why now? Odd thing to happen to him.


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> This happened when I started doing both boxing and weight-training. But the question is, why now? Odd thing to happen to him.


was he one of those boxers who saw strength training as taboo and din't start until now with his modern sports science coach


----------



## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

Maybe he did get on them to 'even out the playing field' for the emmanuela rematches


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) said:


> was he one of those boxers who saw strength training as taboo and din't start until now with his modern sports science coach


I see that as a distinct possibility. The weight training is something distinct to the new school and he's clearly an old school fighter. Running in the mountains, focusing mostly on sparring and mitt/bag work, eating quail eggs, drinking his urine...even now he does alternative therapies and shit. Marquez is definitely into both traditional and alternative training methods, only now warming up to the more modern scientific stuff.


----------



## Lampley (Jun 4, 2013)

He's almost definitely supplementing, and you can look at the sudden changes in his body to see it even without acne. I've given up guessing, though.


----------



## RDJ (Jun 27, 2012)

KERRIGAN said:


> One more reason why guys in a boxing gym shouldn't be kissing each other in the locker room.


It turns out punching each other in the face with sweaty gloves can spread herpes.

Ps. what about reach arounds? :think


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Lampley said:


> He's almost definitely supplementing, and you can look at the sudden changes in his body to see it even without acne. I've given up guessing, though.


This is also a legit possibility. Heredia is even selling his own pre-workout supplement now. I'm sure Marquez is using supplements but it doesn't mean they are illegal.

The question that I ask is...why risk it? Heredia already did time. Why would Marquez risk it like this? His career and legacy would be ruined. Heredia already has baggage, so why would he risk doing more time? If Marquez really wanted to cheat, you don't think he'd be more discrete? He fucking hires the guy who was already burned. It makes no sense.They got too much to lose. Heredia is just coming back up and has clientele. He's working fine. That acne breakout can be for different shit. I've seen people break out like that, myself included. Marquez has always been willing to take drug test and I've heard him many times in his show that he's willing to get tested whenever. If he's on something, he sure ain't trying to hide it. It just makes no fucking sense. I can see simpletons accusing him though. The majority of people arguing about this have no fucking clue about the subject. Just the other day I was laughing at the fact that some idiots actually believe you can put steroids on shakes :lol:. Ever since Ariza brought up that he didn't know what was on Pacquiao's shakes, fools are saying it was steroids, not knowing that doing that would be a complete waste. This is why it's insane and it'll drive you crazy.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> This is also a legit possibility. Heredia is even selling his own pre-workout supplement now. I'm sure Marquez is using supplements but it doesn't mean they are illegal.
> 
> The question that I ask is...why risk it? Heredia already did time. Why would Marquez risk it like this? His career and legacy would be ruined. Heredia already has baggage, so why would he risk doing more time? If Marquez really wanted to cheat, you don't think he'd be more discrete? He fucking hires the guy who was already burned. It makes no sense.They got too much to lose. Heredia is just coming back up and has clientele. He's working fine. That acne breakout can be for different shit. I've seen people break out like that, myself included. Marquez has always been willing to take drug test and I've heard him many times in his show that he's willing to get tested whenever. If he's on something, he sure ain't trying to hide it. It just makes no fucking sense. I can see simpletons accusing him though. The majority of people arguing about this have no fucking clue about the subject. Just the other day I was laughing at the fact that some idiots actually believe you can put steroids on shakes :lol:. Ever since Ariza brought up that he didn't know what was on Pacquiao's shakes, fools are saying it was steroids, not knowing that doing that would be a complete waste. This is why it's insane and it'll drive you crazy.


Yeah, it's a bit bizarre to think that JMM is hiding in plain sight, so to speak.


----------



## mishima (Jul 17, 2013)

Good fighter but you have to be a muppet like Zopolite to think he is a clean fighter. There is no risk of getting caught out by drug test when you work with Memo


----------



## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

People saying 'why risk it?' - risk what?

If he is doping - He's not going to fail a test (which is what it seems most people would require to write him off as a cheat), he's extended his career for a few more years and set to make millions more in purse money, what risk are you talking about?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> People saying 'why risk it?' - risk what?
> 
> If he is doping - He's not going to fail a test (which is what it seems most people would require to write him off as a cheat), he's extended his career for a few more years and set to make millions more in purse money, what risk are you talking about?


Eternal shame.

Passing the tests is no guarantee IMO. Even if it is the norm for users.


----------



## mishima (Jul 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> *Eternal shame. *
> 
> Passing the tests is no guarantee IMO. Even if it is the norm for users.


This is a guy who drinks his urine on TV


----------



## TSOL (Dec 15, 2013)

at the end of the day theres no way to tell.

you brought up chael getting busted but you know royce gracie got busted for "off the chart" steroid use?

...this is how he was the night he got busted










:yep


----------



## Duo (Jun 14, 2012)

Damn. That the worst case of zits I've seen in boxing since Ray Mancini's face in Boom-Boom's heyday.


----------



## El-Terrible (Jun 5, 2013)

They are all under suspicion...I mean let's take the big 3:

Marquez: Acne on chest, with alvarado there was no random blood testing. Why when it has become the norm now? Against Pacquiao, nothing either. Against Bradley he refused to go VADA, and they used NSAC whose tests do not cover whether a synthetic testosterone was used in the last 6 months. Teamed up with one of the most notious PED trainers around and underwent a remarkable body transformation. I mean this guy's muscles are more than anything Pacquiao managed to achieve. 

Mayweather: long stretches out of boxing, no testing - it is well known that consistent use over long periods is where benefits can be reaped. Has used banned substances before on hands. Has had users from his own gym. A well known hypocrite, he who shouts loudest is sometimes tainted. Also well know he settled with Pacquiao as soon as Pacquiao's lawyers demanded that USADA submit all of Floyd's test results. USADA even filed a motion demanding they have the right to keep Floyd's results as classified. WTF? 

Pacquiao: Refused to take random blood tests with no cut off. Ariza does not exactly come across as a highly moral man and roach even labelled him as "shady". However did agree to cut-offs and tests after the fight though - does 14 days out provide a benefit to a drug cheat? I don't know 100%, my impression is no. However, climbed several divisions, good KO power up until 140. And lot's of accusations so also suspicious.

Right now from the 3, Marquez looks very suspicious. The hooplah with him refusing VADA and NSAC (well known NSAC labs do not test for synthetic testosterone use within last 6 months) and after all that, no testing against Alvarado - you have to question things. This guy has more KO power than Pacquiao ever had at 147 and from where? In 3 fights he can't get Pacquiao down once, and he manged 2 KO's with 1 punch in 1 fight in a higher weight class. 

He is suspicious, end of. But until proven guilty we're just guessing


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

El-Terrible said:


> and they used NSAC whose tests do not cover whether a synthetic testosterone was used in the last 6 months.


I appreciate the fair breakdown discussing suspicions for each fighter man but I do believe the NSAC did test for this with the whole body chemistry passport angle.










http://www.thesweetscience.com/news...nevadas-advance-ped-tests-for-bradley-marquez


----------



## Rooster (Jul 14, 2013)

Let's be honest. It doesn't prove anything for certain. But it's definitely adds more support to what most of us suspect. Do I know that Marquez, Pacquiao, Mayweather and most of the other elite boxers are using? Nope. But I do think that they are or have in the past. Unfortunately it's just the way sports is. Hopefully, testing gets better and commissions get less corrupt so that can change.


----------



## mishima (Jul 17, 2013)

until those test are 24/7 365 random days a year then they would have some relevance


----------



## Danimal (Oct 9, 2013)

2manyusernames said:


> Ingrown hairs don't cause those greasy, pussy, boil like spots. Ingrown hairs are more red, inflamed and itchy type spots.


I'm not so invested in this argument, but I do disagree. His spots could definitely be the result of shaving or waxing then training hard and not showering. I've seen it before and it looks just like that.

But I really don't think any of this proves or disproves drug-use. These guys need to be randomly tested year round or at least from the moment a fight is signed. There are still many people using in Olympic sports so if they're willing to risk it, I'm sure boxers would be too.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Danimal said:


> I'm not so invested in this argument, but I do disagree. His spots could definitely be the result of shaving or waxing then training hard and not showering. I've seen it before and it looks just like that.
> 
> But I really don't think any of this proves or disproves drug-use. These guys need to be randomly tested year round or at least from the moment a fight is signed. There are still many people using in Olympic sports so if they're willing to risk it, I'm sure boxers would be too.


why would a boxer shave or wax his chest?

this isnt bodybuilding where one receive points for aesthetics.


----------



## Danimal (Oct 9, 2013)

quincy k said:


> why would a boxer shave or wax his chest?
> 
> this isnt bodybuilding where one receive points for aesthetics.


Are you joking?!?!? Did you think it's purely coincidence that almost every pro boxer has no chest hair?


----------



## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

Danimal said:


> Are you joking?!?!? Did you think it's purely coincidence that almost every pro boxer has no chest hair?


Marquez doesn't shave his chest. We Mexicans don't grow much hair on our body. My family has zero body-hair. We only grow it on our armpits and, of course, pubic region. I highly doubt Marquez or any other Mexican boxer shaves their chest/stomach region.


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Danimal said:


> Are you joking?!?!? Did you think it's purely coincidence that almost every pro boxer has no chest hair?


carl froch










lennox lewis










oscar delahoya










john ruiz










chavez jr









seriously, i dont know what advantages a boxer would have shaving and also to risk cutting himself in the process


----------



## Danimal (Oct 9, 2013)

Like I said originally, I'm not super invested in this discussion. I was just throwing out a suggestion as requested by the OP. Many boxers remove their chest hair. It's just a fact, I'm moving on :thumbsup


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Danimal said:


> Like I said originally, I'm not super invested in this discussion. I was just throwing out a suggestion as requested by the OP. Many boxers remove their chest hair. It's just a fact, I'm moving on :thumbsup


not to be argumentative but what fact do you have that "many boxers remove their chest hair" before a fight? i could see a boxer maybe shaving before a photo shoot or something but immediately before a fight such as jmm/alvarado?

it really makes no sense especially if they were to cut themselves and then risk infection.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

quincy k said:


> carl froch
> 
> 
> 
> ...


None of them have much chest hair to be honest.

Prob better using a guy like Vauev.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

mishima said:


> Good fighter but you have to be a muppet like Zopolite to think he is a clean fighter. There is no risk of getting caught out by drug test when you work with Memo


How cute..I have another fanboy :yep

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


----------



## Slugger3000 (May 22, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


>


Angels in the outfield? Haha love that movie!


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Bogotazo said:


> Eternal shame.
> 
> Passing the tests is no guarantee IMO. Even if it is the norm for users.


Yeah that's stupid to think you will never fail a drug test ha. History proves that you can. Guys are still failing drug test in MLB even after the strict testing and realizing it's getting tougher. They think they will always beat it but nothing is 100%. Another thing to consider is that Marquez would be putting himself in a bind. Marquez would also need to understand that Heredia could put him on blast. It's happened before. The dudes giving the "roids" end up snitching. It's a situation in which you really can't trust anyone. Once again, would Marquez be this dumb to risk it?


----------



## gander tasco (Jun 23, 2013)

Innoncent until proven guilty. But I always thought something was a bit off since he was knocking Pac around in the 4th fight. Either he got a lot stronger or Pac's chin deteriorated. I leaned toward the latter. But who knows. I don't get into this nonsense of accusing every boxer of using drugs bc he knocked somebody out or has some muscle mass.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

El-Terrible said:


> They are all under suspicion...I mean let's take the big 3:
> 
> Marquez: Acne on chest, with alvarado there was no random blood testing. Why when it has become the norm now? Against Pacquiao, nothing either. Against Bradley he refused to go VADA, and they used NSAC whose tests do not cover whether a synthetic testosterone was used in the last 6 months. Teamed up with one of the most notious PED trainers around and underwent a remarkable body transformation. I mean this guy's muscles are more than anything Pacquiao managed to achieve.
> 
> ...


Perfect example on why you come up with theories for many boxers.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Danimal said:


> Like I said originally, I'm not super invested in this discussion. I was just throwing out a suggestion as requested by the OP. Many boxers remove their chest hair. It's just a fact, I'm moving on :thumbsup


Yeah lol. That's a stupid discussion ha. Shaving body hair is common as fuck. I don't know what the big deal is.


----------



## SouthPaw (May 24, 2013)

gander tasco said:


> Innoncent until proven guilty. But I always thought something was a bit off since he was knocking Pac around in the 4th fight. Either he got a lot stronger or Pac's chin deteriorated. I leaned toward the latter. But who knows. I don't get into this nonsense of accusing every boxer of using drugs bc he knocked somebody out or has some muscle mass.


I would say this is a classy post, gander, but I know it's in your best interest as a Pac fan to take this stance lol.


----------



## Jonnybravo (Jun 4, 2013)

sted head :-(


----------



## Jose Lopez (Feb 4, 2014)

.






.


----------



## Jose Lopez (Feb 4, 2014)

.






.


----------



## Jose Lopez (Feb 4, 2014)

.






.


----------



## Jose Lopez (Feb 4, 2014)

.






.


----------



## Jose Lopez (Feb 4, 2014)

.






.


----------



## Jose Lopez (Feb 4, 2014)

.




.

.




.






.

.


----------



## Jose Lopez (Feb 4, 2014)

JMM has KO'd many of his opponents since over 20 years ago, since 1994.

JMM's KO power is nothing new.






.


----------



## Brnxhands (Jun 11, 2013)

Doesn't make you a world class fighter. Or athlete. Shut the fuck up about it


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

everyone should just take da test and be done with it. Combat sports should all be strictly tested. They are playing with people's lives here.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> They are playing with people's lives here.


I never really understood this statement. It's not like they give you superpowers. If you want to ban steroids because you think fighters are going to die because of it, then ban naturally big punchers too.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I never really understood this statement. It's not like they give you superpowers. If you want to ban steroids because you think fighters are going to die because of it, then ban naturally big punchers too.


Testosterone should be legal. :deal


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Testosterone should be legal. :deal


:think


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> :think


I mean just in general, in the US w/o a prescription. How much more dangerous would you say it is compared to guns? :rofl How much more unhealthy is it compared to cigarettes? Anybody can OD and kill themselves or cause severe injuries to their internal organs on OTC drugs. Tylenol is potentially hepatotoxic FFS. The orally ingestible anabolics are admittedly a much bigger health risk. Not that you'd want to run them on their own if you want to keep your gainzzz


----------



## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> I never really understood this statement. It's not like they give you superpowers. If you want to ban steroids because you think fighters are going to die because of it, then ban naturally big punchers too.


Well, these drugs increase people's speed, strength and stamina. They're helping people to throw more punches than they would normally be able to in a fight, so as a clean opponent is tiring their doped adversary is still feeling fresh and strong. That's pretty dangerous.

You only have to look through history at athletics, cycling, baseball etc to see the edge these drugs give you and how they have helped people surpass 'ordinary' levels of performance. In boxing this is extra edge and performance level is manifested by an increased number of punches onto an opponents skull.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> Well, these drugs increase people's speed, strength and stamina. They're helping people to throw more punches than they would normally be able to in a fight, so as a clean opponent is tiring their doped adversary is still feeling fresh and strong. That's pretty dangerous.


Then why not ban the really good natural fighters too? The sensational punchers, the energizer-bunny volume punchers, the stocky tank-like pressure fighters?



Hands of Iron said:


> I mean just in general, in the US w/o a prescription. How much more dangerous would you say it is compared to guns? :rofl How much more unhealthy is it compared to cigarettes? Anybody can OD and kill themselves or cause severe injuries to their internal organs on OTC drugs. Tylenol is potentially hepatotoxic FFS. The orally ingestible anabolics are admittedly a much bigger health risk. Not that you'd want to run them on their own if you want to keep your gainzzz


It's probably fairly easy to get a hold of I'd think.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> It's probably fairly easy to get a hold of I'd think.


It isn't too difficult. It's the distributors who are targeted for the most part, not the average joe's getting them for personal use though you can still end up in shit. There shouldn't be a risk factor involved.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> It isn't too difficult. It's the distributors who are targeted for the most part, not the average joe's getting them for personal use though you can still end up in shit. There shouldn't be a risk factor involved.


Sounds reasonable to me.

Your avatar is epic :lol:


----------



## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Then why not ban the really good natural fighters too? The sensational punchers, the energizer-bunny volume punchers, the stocky tank-like .


Well this seems like two different arguments to me - one is about doping, the above is more to do with if boxing should be banned altogether, as it's clearly dangerous as there are sensational punchers and high volume punchers who pose a risk for their opponents physical health. Those risks are always going to exist in the sport, And as fans we clearly accept that. It is another step to say that you agree these guys should be allowed to take all manner of substances to get even more fast, strong, powerful and durable - in turn making them even more dangerous than they would naturally be.

Part of this is the classic argument towards legalising these drugs: there are huge variances between people's performance levels, caused by the physical and chemical make up of their body, so what's wrong with leveling the playing field by using substances to get to the same level.

Well firstly, I suppose you have some people's desire to see natural performances and the competitions decided by who is the better natural competitor in their field, not who had the best doctor or reacted best to some substance.

And secondly, what happens when those more naturally gifted athletes start using stuff as well? In boxing, you have already highly dangerous fighters made even more dangerous.

Boxing is an inherently dangerous sport as it is. I'm not sure I can agree with the line 'some fighters are harder, faster and more durable than their opponents so we should just let people take what we want.

To be honest. I write most of this as devils's advocate as it's my own opinion that the majority of top athletes in all sports use PEDS to aid performance and recovery, and it's just an ingrained part of sport that the general public either have little interest in, or have huge misconceptions about.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> Well this seems like two different arguments to me - one is about doping, the above is more to do with if boxing should be banned altogether, as it's clearly dangerous as there are sensational punchers and high volume punchers who pose a risk for their opponents physical health. Those risks are always going to exist in the sport, And as fans we clearly accept that. It is another step to say that you agree these guys should be allowed to take all manner of substances to get even more fast, strong, powerful and durable - in turn making them even more dangerous than they would naturally be.
> 
> Part of this is the classic argument towards legalising these drugs: there are huge variances between people's performance levels, caused by the physical and chemical make up of their body, so what's wrong with leveling the playing field by using substances to get to the same level.
> 
> ...


I'm fine with people championing the "natural competition" argument, also understand the view that all top-level athletes are using some banned substance and it's part of the sport, but what I don't understand is the "PEDs are dangerous" line, because it focuses on the manner in which fighters become dangerous, rather than the fact that they are. If someone dies from a Golovkin punch, is it OK if he's clean but condemnable if he's not? If the deaths in boxing are reduced by 50% due to steroid use reduction, of course it would be a good thing, but are the remaining half simply acceptable casualties? I'm not against trying to reduce deaths and serious injuries in boxing, but they happen anyway from great offensive fighters.


----------



## mishima (Jul 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I'm not against trying to reduce deaths and serious injuries in boxing, but they happen anyway from great offensive fighters.


the damage is likely to be greater if the opponent is using PEDs


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Sounds reasonable to me.
> 
> Your avatar is epic :lol:


:lol:

Yea, he didn't have a very good day.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

mishima said:


> the damage is likely to be greater if the opponent is using PEDs


Obviously, but what if Fighter A is naturally very heavy handed, and fighter B is his equivalent in power with PEDs (not quite how they work but bear with me). We're generally fine with the former existing in the sport, and not the latter.


----------



## mishima (Jul 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Obviously, but what if Fighter A is naturally very heavy handed, and fighter B is his equivalent in power with PEDs (not quite how they work but bear with me). We're generally fine with the former existing in the sport, and not the latter.


one is using his natural trained abilities and the other is cheating to gain an advantage


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol:
> 
> Yea, he didn't have a very good day.


That's me whenever the PDD crew acts up in the lounge.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

mishima said:


> one is using his natural trained abilities and the other is cheating to gain an advantage


Right, I understand that gripe. My issue is, people seem concerned with injuries when steroids are concerned, as if they are worse than if steroids weren't involved and the injuries occur anyway, which they must.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> That's me whenever the PDD crew acts up in the lounge.


:lol: atsch

I'm NPD. 
@Felix is a cool dude m8. You two shouldn't fight.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :lol: atsch
> 
> I'm NPD.
> 
> @Felix is a cool dude m8. You two shouldn't fight.


He's cool when he's not telling brownies to pipe down. Which is his behavior recently, so it's all good. I think we're both making the effort, and who knows down the line, my knot with Pity isn't tied yet.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> He's cool when he's not telling brownies to pipe down. Which is his behavior recently, so it's all good. I think we're both making the effort, and who knows down the line


:rofl

That JMM artwork tho...



Bogotazo said:


> My knot with Pity isn't tied yet.


 @PityTheFool :lol:


----------



## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> He's cool when he's not telling brownies to pipe down. Which is his behavior recently, so it's all good. I think we're both making the effort, and who knows down the line, my knot with Pity isn't tied yet.


Dude I've never told people to pipe down based on their ethnicity. Hell, I don't even KNOW what colour most on here are. Turds don't have to be brown. But anyway; I'm all for getting along. Life's too short to be an asshole all the time.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> Well, these drugs increase people's speed, strength and stamina. They're helping people to throw more punches than they would normally be able to in a fight, so as a clean opponent is tiring their doped adversary is still feeling fresh and strong. That's pretty dangerous.
> 
> You only have to look through history at athletics, cycling, baseball etc to see the edge these drugs give you and how they have helped people surpass 'ordinary' levels of performance. In boxing this is extra edge and performance level is manifested by an increased number of punches onto an opponents skull.


Speed, stamina, and strength you say? Would you say JMM has increased in all those? Because if you ask me, I'd say its the complete opposite: Dude is noticeably slower, looks to tire much more in the later rounds, and doesn't really look all that much stronger than before...as a matter of fact, he's been looking more vulnerable.

Now, I'm not gonna say that he isn't or is on steroids, but if he is indeed on the juice, then those roids aren't getting the job done.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


----------



## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Speed, stamina, and strength you say? Would you say JMM has increased in all those? Because if you ask me, I'd say its the complete opposite: Dude is noticeably slower, looks to tire much more in the later rounds, and doesn't really look all that much stronger than before...as a matter of fact, he's been looking more vulnerable.
> 
> Now, I'm not gonna say that he isn't or is on steroids, but if he is indeed on the juice, then those roids aren't getting the job done.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


He's a 40 year old man.


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> He's a 40 year old man.


a 40 year old man who takes very good care of himself and is in tremendous shape....what are your thoughts on Hopkins and how he's looked at his age?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


----------



## Jonnybravo (Jun 4, 2013)

Recovery from workouts is also much quicker from testosterone use, so it does not have to be a fight night benefit to help the fighter. Being able to do the same workouts as a 30 year old and recovering quickly would be of a big benefit to an older man :deal


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

All this talk is a testament to Juan's ability.


----------



## Jonnybravo (Jun 4, 2013)

Hatesrats said:


> All this talk is a testament to Juan's ability.


Heredia's ability more like numbnuts


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

Jonnybravo said:


> Heredia's ability more like numbnuts


Steroids/PEDS don't give you skillz STUPID.


----------



## Jonnybravo (Jun 4, 2013)

Hatesrats said:


> Steroids/PEDS don't give you skillz STUPID.


Give you the ability to recover quickly and keep them "skillz" honed like a sharp knife


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Jonnybravo said:


> Give you the ability to recover quickly and keep them "skillz" honed like a sharp knife


Yes because pre-Heredia Juan was never known to have amazing recovery skills...oh wait..

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


----------



## Jonnybravo (Jun 4, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> Yes because pre-Heredia Juan was never known to have amazing recovery skills...oh wait..
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


atsch point i was making obviously went over your head. you just went full retard well done


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Jonnybravo said:


> atsch point i was making obviously went over your head. you just went full retard well done


Explain princess...you said he benefits from recovering quickly, even tho he has shown to do this even at an older age. Watch the Katsidis fight...Juan went into his late 30s staying sharp as a knife before even hooking up with Heredia...its called being dedicated to your craft

Besides, what happens on fight night is what matters here..so if even if he is indeed juicing in his workouts like you suggest...he still has no advantage on fight night...he is still slower, he still tires more. You get the picture.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


----------



## Jdempsey85 (Jan 6, 2013)

JMM looks bigger than 37/38 year old middleweight Duran


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

He's never failed a test, so he's just as clean as prime Manny Pacquiao was.


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

Jdempsey85 said:


> JMM looks bigger than 37/38 year old middleweight Duran


As great as Duran is/was... 
He was the poster boy for a boxer who abused his body outside the ring.

Can you imagine a dedicated RD like say a Floyd, B-Hop or JMM!!!
Scary shit...


----------



## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> He's never failed a test, so he's just as clean as prime Manny Pacquiao was.


the difference lies in the fact that marquez has never rejected more stringent drug testing.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Trash Bags said:


> the difference lies in the fact that marquez has never rejected more stringent drug testing.


It's just funny how the same people who defended Pac to the death are now suspecting Marquez.


----------



## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

Zopilote said:


> Besides, what happens on fight night is what matters here..so if even if he is indeed juicing in his workouts like you suggest...he still has no advantage on fight night...he is still slower, he still tires more.


I can't tell if you're being serious or not . . .


----------



## Trash Bags (May 17, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> It's just funny how the same people who defended Pac to the death are now suspecting Marquez.


it's ridiculous. it's fuckin' ridiculous.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I never really understood this statement. It's not like they give you superpowers. If you want to ban steroids because you think fighters are going to die because of it, then ban naturally big punchers too.


 Banned Enhancement drugs should not be allowed in combat sports. Steroids is an enhancement drug. Testosterone allows a fighter to hit harder, faster, due to them able to train harder and recovers faster. That's an edge. You got clean fighters who endure the pain for little gain vs someone who is raging juiced up on beast mode ready to kill so of course is dangerous.

I don't know about you but if i were to fight someone in the ring, i wouldn't want them to be juicing. It is not fun to fight some raging hard hitting, unlimited supply of energy, guy who is jacked up.


----------



## Ogi (Jan 21, 2014)

Lets be honest it isn't even genetically possible for a 40 year old Mexican to have abs like that ...

_*waits for angry fan responses*_


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

tliang1000 said:


> Banned Enhancement drugs should not be allowed in combat sports. Steroids is an enhancement drug. Testosterone allows a fighter to hit harder, faster, due to them able to train harder and recovers faster. That's an edge. You got clean fighters who endure the pain for little gain vs someone who is raging juiced up on beast mode ready to kill so of course is dangerous.
> 
> I don't know about you but if i were to fight someone in the ring, i wouldn't want them to be juicing. It is not fun to fight some raging hard hitting, unlimited supply of energy, guy who is jacked up.


My point is, some fighters are in beast mode and jacked up and hard hitting and have seemingly unlimited energy _anyway._


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> :rofl
> 
> That JMM artwork tho...
> 
> @PityTheFool :lol:


Que pasa?


----------



## Kid Cubano (Jun 5, 2013)

Acne Myth 1: Adults don’t get acne. 

Not true. Surveys have found that significant numbers of adults are still getting acne into their 30s, 40s, and even 50s. Acne may look different when you’re 36 than it did when you were 16 -- it’s more likely to be reddish nodules around your mouth and jaw, rather than whiteheads and blackheads scattered all over your forehead, nose, and cheeks -- but it’s acne all the same


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## R00ster (Jan 29, 2014)

steviebruno said:


> He's never failed a test, so he's just as clean as prime Manny Pacquiao was.


That might make them both cleaner than Floyd Mayweather Jr.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Bogotazo said:


> I never really understood this statement. It's not like they give you superpowers. If you want to ban steroids because you think fighters are going to die because of it, then ban naturally big punchers too.


That's because people think this is like Rocky 4. You take steroids, and it gives you super hero powers!
Didn't De La Hoya beat Vargas on steroids? He also arguably beat Mosley on HGH. Of course PED's can help but it isn't going to give you super powers. That's why I laugh at the Mayweather video, when he's crying about Pacman being or roids. Acting as if he was taking a fucking pistol to the ring. These dudes would have to be heavy users of PED's for it to really have a greater impact. Your body would need to get accustomed to the transformation and it takes time. Body Builders who take roids don't get big and strong in a couple of months. It takes time. Regardless, PED's should be banned because it's an unfair advantage but people exaggerate on what PED's can do.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Jdempsey85 said:


> JMM looks bigger than 37/38 year old middleweight Duran


You mean Marquez looks in shape, not bigger ha. Comparing Marquez to Duran is wrong. Marquez has never had weight problems or issues with training. Duran did have issues with weight and at this point was known for not being as dedicated.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> That's because people think this is like Rocky 4. You take steroids, and it gives you super hero powers!
> Didn't De La Hoya beat Vargas on steroids? He also arguably beat Mosley on HGH. Of course PED's can help but it isn't going to give you super powers. That's why I laugh at the Mayweather video, when he's crying about Pacman being or roids. Acting as if he was taking a fucking pistol to the ring. These dudes would have to be heavy users of PED's for it to really have a greater impact. Your body would need to get accustomed to the transformation and it takes time. Body Builders who take roids don't get big and strong in a couple of months. It takes time. Regardless, PED's should be banned because it's an unfair advantage but people exaggerate on what PED's can do.


Agreed. Performance isn't really an indicator for that reason.


----------



## rjjfan (May 17, 2013)

I remember a thread on this subject where one of the posters said he took steroids while boxing and before it, he was a fair puncher at MW or LHW and after it, he was hurting HWs with his punches. 

I don't know if he's full of shit but there has to be a reason so many elite level athletes are on it.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> My point is, some fighters are in beast mode and jacked up and hard hitting and have seemingly unlimited energy _anyway._


That's where cherry picking comes into play i guess lol.


----------



## bhopheadbut (Jun 16, 2013)

Back acne would be more worrying for peds, chest acne could be a bad razor and a shit shave.the PAC ko has more to do with perfect technique,timing and having fought the dude so many times.

for me the bigger warning light for peds is his amazing longevity, bhop was once consider a freak for being near 40 and fighting nowdays half the p4p top ten are nearly 40 and some of them like PAC and jmm have had tough careers and only Sergio is really showing his ages


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bhopheadbut said:


> Back acne would be more worrying for peds, chest acne could be a bad razor and a shit shave.the PAC ko has more to do with perfect technique,timing and having fought the dude so many times.
> 
> for me the bigger warning light for peds is his amazing longevity, bhop was once consider a freak for being near 40 and fighting nowdays half the p4p top ten are nearly 40 and some of them like PAC and jmm have had tough careers and only Sergio is really showing his ages


I think that last part can be attributed to advanced technology for recovery, and also the fact that these young guns can't hang.


----------



## miniq (Jul 12, 2013)

"Could be a bad shave" please f*ck off with that BS lmao. Unless he is shaving with a rusty spoon then rubbing sweat & piss on his chest without showering for a week then no just no. The guy is hairless anyway so please get the irrational defenses out of your mind. 

Marquez is on something anyone with half a brain can't deny it to themselves...It doesn't take anything away from how much of a great fighter he is...but he shouldn't push it...Advanced random testing is required to 'officially' catch it...but one slip up and Marquez could have his legacy tarnished.

Marquez is a class above Alvarado. Pacquiao knockout can't really be attributed to PED advantages. The real problem comes when he is fighting a hard 12 round fight with Pacquiao battling for a close decision or with someone like Bradley then managing to edge it due to his unfair PED advantage.


----------



## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

I don't know the significance of the acne? Could be something hormonal which happens with men who reach 40. I thought they tested for any sort of substance, and regardless of when he took it or not, if it does some good it should still show up in the blood somehow, and since it did not then I doubt he is taking any illegal enhancers.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Conte again making accusations:

http://www.fightsaga.com/news/item/4495-Juan-Manuel-Marquez-scrutinized-by-Victor-Conte-on-Twitter

Heredia selling new supplements, maybe that could be a cause?

http://www.fightsaga.com/news/item/4493-Juan-Manuel-Marquez-s-peds-performance


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Conte again making accusations:
> 
> http://www.fightsaga.com/news/item/4495-Juan-Manuel-Marquez-scrutinized-by-Victor-Conte-on-Twitter
> 
> ...


"40 years old and muscles popping out"

This is so fucking ridiculous. :rofl


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> "40 years old and muscles popping out"
> 
> This is so fucking ridiculous. :rofl


Rather unscientific huh? :lol: I love how him and Heredia have the whole ex-supplier beef going on.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> Rather unscientific huh? :lol: I love how him and Heredia have the whole ex-supplier beef going on.


Man if only you knew how fucking absurd it is to use his BODY as a pointer to PEDs. Maybe you do, but I'm telling you it's wacked the fuck out, big time. People either do not lift or sulk in the bottom pit of the gene pool. It's that simple. And he is not getting faster or more explosive or showing a higher level of stamina... He's certainly sitting down on his shots more often, he's certainly picked up weight training seriously for the first time in his career over the last few, he's certainly trained more for power. Other than that :conf

Oh yea, this shit was awesome too :yep


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Man if only you knew how fucking absurd it is to use his BODY as a pointer to PEDs. Maybe you do, but I'm telling you it's wacked the fuck out, big time. People either do not lift or sulk in the bottom pit of the gene pool. It's that simple. And he is not getting faster or more explosive or showing a higher level of stamina... He's certainly sitting down on his shots more often, he's certainly picked up weight training seriously for the first time in his career over the last few, he's certainly trained more for power. Other than that :conf
> 
> Oh yea, this shit was awesome too :yep


Excellent post, HOI. :deal

JMM is always fun to watch on the speedbag! :yep


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> Que pasa?


Sounds like Bogo isn't all that confident in your union anymore.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Man if only you knew how fucking absurd it is to use his BODY as a pointer to PEDs. Maybe you do, but I'm telling you it's wacked the fuck out, big time. People either do not lift or sulk in the bottom pit of the gene pool. It's that simple. And he is not getting faster or more explosive or showing a higher level of stamina... He's certainly sitting down on his shots more often, he's certainly picked up weight training seriously for the first time in his career over the last few, he's certainly trained more for power. Other than that :conf
> 
> Oh yea, this shit was awesome too :yep


Yeah dude I've always said that pointing to performance is a dead-end. Get a 40 year old who's never done weights or plyometrics before to get on a regimen and his body will transform.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Hands of Iron said:


> Man if only you knew how fucking absurd it is to use his BODY as a pointer to PEDs. Maybe you do, but I'm telling you it's wacked the fuck out, big time. People either do not lift or sulk in the bottom pit of the gene pool. It's that simple. And he is not getting faster or more explosive or showing a higher level of stamina... He's certainly sitting down on his shots more often, he's certainly picked up weight training seriously for the first time in his career over the last few, he's certainly trained more for power. Other than that :conf
> 
> Oh yea, this shit was awesome too :yep





Zopilote said:


> Excellent post, HOI. :deal
> 
> JMM is always fun to watch on the speedbag! :yep





Bogotazo said:


> Yeah dude I've always said that pointing to performance is a dead-end. Get a 40 year old who's never done weights or plyometrics before to get on a regimen and his body will transform.


Particularly when the 38-40 year old in question is already in good condition and general health. People are acting like 40 = 65. It's madness. Times have changed, people are living and staying in good physical condition for longer than decades past. My 57 year old dad has a better physique than Marquez (as well as being heavier) and he hasn't even picked up a weight in years :lol: But Juan dedicated to a strict and supervised training regimen with quality nutrition and natural supps can't look good without loads of "PEDs"?  The only thing that really stands out are his abs -- damn near perfect *genetic* shape and layout.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Particularly when the 38-40 year old in question is already in good condition and general health. People are acting like 40 = 65. It's madness. Times have changed, people are living and staying in good physical condition for longer than decades past. My 57 year old dad has a better physique than Marquez (as well as being heavier) and he hasn't even picked up a weight in years :lol: But Juan dedicated to a strict and supervised training regimen with quality nutrition and natural supps can't look good without loads of "PEDs"?  The only thing that really stands out are his abs -- damn near perfect *genetic* shape and layout.


The abs are ridiculous. And I think it's because he started adding weight to his situps and added different core workouts. He's always had standout abs, but now, his abs have abs.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> The abs are ridiculous. And I think it's because he started adding weight to his situps and added different core workouts. He's always had standout abs, but now, his abs have abs.


His trainer's quality shone through there. You'll notice that a lot of people - that are in great shape - have 'uneven' looking abs. There's nothing that can really be done about it and it's completely normal but you can make it worse in some ways by neglecting the lower portion of the abdominals as many tend to do. He's killing them from every angle. Usually all you need is a low body fat % and voila, Abs. I underrate core strength though, or at least have for too long and it's of high value to him in his line of work.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Sounds like Bogo isn't all that confident in your union anymore.


That doesn't mean we don't still love each other and want to be together.
I can't even find Bogo's post you quoted.
@Bogotazo ;Are you dumping me?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> That doesn't mean we don't still love each other and want to be together.
> I can't even find Bogo's post you quoted.
> 
> @Bogotazo ;Are you dumping me?


Of course not! I was just mentioning that we hadn't tied the knot yet.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Agreed. Performance isn't really an indicator for that reason.


But back acne is?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> But back acne is?


Might be. It's more distinct. Clearly I'm not stating it's definite and there are alternative explanations, as expressed in the opening post.


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Of course not! I was just mentioning that we hadn't tied the knot yet.


What a relief! I've already told the kids they're getting a new mom.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

PityTheFool said:


> What a relief! I've already told the kids they're getting a new mom.


(sun)


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> That's because people think this is like Rocky 4. You take steroids, and it gives you super hero powers!
> Didn't De La Hoya beat Vargas on steroids? He also arguably beat Mosley on HGH. Of course PED's can help but it isn't going to give you super powers. That's why I laugh at the Mayweather video, when he's crying about Pacman being or roids. Acting as if he was taking a fucking pistol to the ring. These dudes would have to be heavy users of PED's for it to really have a greater impact. Your body would need to get accustomed to the transformation and it takes time. Body Builders who take roids don't get big and strong in a couple of months. It takes time. Regardless, PED's should be banned because it's an unfair advantage but people exaggerate on what PED's can do.


A body builder won't get super big right away, but the gains in strength and muscular endurance are almost immediate, even before it becomes obvious to an observer. The "transformation" you speak of happens only because they are able to pick up larger weights and do more reps. They are able to do this because of the PEDs. And then you'd have to factor in that professional athletes taking roids are not looking for a "transformation". Manny Pacquiao isn't trying to look like a 250lb truck. Ryan Braun never tried to look like Barry Bonds. Lance Armstrong never even looked like an athlete. A certain tennis player may just be trying to get extra pace on his topspin forehand. etc etc

Athletes are looking for modest gains which are not discernible to the naked eye. The modest gains are far more attainable -and less obvious- than the "transformation".


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Hands of Iron said:


> Man if only you knew how fucking absurd it is to use his BODY as a pointer to PEDs. Maybe you do, but I'm telling you it's wacked the fuck out, big time. People either do not lift or sulk in the bottom pit of the gene pool. It's that simple. And he is not getting faster or more explosive or showing a higher level of stamina... He's certainly sitting down on his shots more often, he's certainly picked up weight training seriously for the first time in his career over the last few, he's certainly trained more for power. Other than that :conf
> 
> Oh yea, this shit was awesome too :yep


Excellent post. Agree 100%. I've seen people say he looks like a "body builder" :rofl.

Marquez does that all the time :yep


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

steviebruno said:


> A body builder won't get super big right away, but the gains in strength and muscular endurance are almost immediate, even before it becomes obvious to an observer. The "transformation" you speak of happens only because they are able to pick up larger weights and do more reps. They are able to do this because of the PEDs. And then you'd have to factor in that professional athletes taking roids are not looking for a "transformation". Manny Pacquiao isn't trying to look like a 250lb truck. Ryan Braun never tried to look like Barry Bonds. Lance Armstrong never even looked like an athlete. A certain tennis player may just be trying to get extra pace on his topspin forehand. etc etc
> 
> Athletes are looking for modest gains which are not discernible to the naked eye. The modest gains are far more attainable -and less obvious- than the "transformation".


False. Minimal gains at most. PED's aren't magic bro. You still need to put in the work. I guess it depends on the amount of time. And when I was speaking about transformation, I wasn't literally saying just the body. I'm talking about gains in strength and speed etc etc. I wasn't saying Marquez was trying to get like Arnold.

Modest gains, are exactly it. I just don't see it though.


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> False. Minimal gains at most. PED's aren't magic bro. You still need to put in the work. I guess it depends on the amount of time. And when I was speaking about transformation, I wasn't literally saying just the body. I'm talking about gains in strength and speed etc etc. I wasn't saying Marquez was trying to get like Arnold.
> 
> Modest gains, are exactly it. I just don't see it though.


If JMM wanted to roid, he'd make gains from it and it would not take years. Months, if anything.


----------



## Jonnybravo (Jun 4, 2013)

Weeks depending on the ester and hormone taken


----------



## bhopheadbut (Jun 16, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> I think that last part can be attributed to advanced technology for recovery, and also the fact that these young guns can't hang.


yeah maybe the alvarado style matchup flattered him like margarito did mosley seen as mike took massive punishment in his last two fights.still in this era nobody is above suspicion


----------



## El-Terrible (Jun 5, 2013)

bhopheadbut said:


> Back acne would be more worrying for peds, chest acne could be a bad razor and a shit shave.the PAC ko has more to do with perfect technique,timing and having fought the dude so many times.


Agreed with the KO punch - but the 3rd round knockdown is certainly something he had never in his wildest dreams come close to achieving at a lighter weight but yet he managed to do it at a heavier weight class against the same guy who is physically also bigger?


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

El-Terrible said:


> Agreed with the KO punch - but the 3rd round knockdown is certainly something he had never in his wildest dreams come close to achieving at a lighter weight but yet he managed to do it at a heavier weight class against the same guy who is physically also bigger?


Actually, that same punch that he knocked him down with was the same punch he hurt him with and almost knocked him down with in their first fight..when Manny was younger and much more fresher...except here there was less distance and Juan looked to have loaded up on the shot much more..

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


----------



## El-Terrible (Jun 5, 2013)

Zopilote said:


> Actually, that same punch that he knocked him down with was the same punch he hurt him with and almost knocked him down with in their first fight..when Manny was younger and much more fresher...except here there was less distance and Juan looked to have loaded up on the shot much more..
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


I know, but point is Pacquiao wasn't hurt enough where there was even doubt that he might go down. He took the shot flush and adjusted straight away - here he went down immediately. The point is there was a substantial difference in power - it's undeniable. I'm not saying he's on something but the power difference is there for all to see


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

El-Terrible said:


> I know, but point is Pacquiao wasn't hurt enough where there was even doubt that he might go down. He took the shot flush and adjusted straight away - here he went down immediately. The point is there was a substantial difference in power - it's undeniable. I'm not saying he's on something but the power difference is there for all to see


Tbf he actually looked more hurt from the shot in their first fight..in their first fight, Manny's legs got shaky as hell, was driven back to the ropes and seemed buzzed for a bit..here, PAC got put down got back up and seemed fine and ready to go...That shot in the fourth fight was an absolute hayemaker, and IMO the hardest shot Juan has landed on Manny...a shot he normally wouldn't throw against someone as dangerous as Manny...shot had some really really mean intentions behind it, and was beautifully set up by body shots..

That's how I see it at least.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

El-Terrible said:


> Agreed with the KO punch - but the 3rd round knockdown is certainly something he had never in his wildest dreams come close to achieving at a lighter weight but yet he managed to do it at a heavier weight class against the same guy who is physically also bigger?


When did Manny officially become bigger than JMM?


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

MEXAMELAC said:


> False. Minimal gains at most. PED's aren't magic bro. *You still need to put in the work*. I guess it depends on the amount of time. And when I was speaking about transformation, I wasn't literally saying just the body. I'm talking about gains in strength and speed etc etc. I wasn't saying Marquez was trying to get like Arnold.
> 
> Modest gains, are exactly it. I just don't see it though.


And what makes it possible to put the work in? How are you training harder without the increased strength and endurance?


----------



## Zopilote (Jun 5, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> When did Manny officially become bigger than JMM?


Very good point.

Juan and Manny have always been around the same size.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> That doesn't mean we don't still love each other and want to be together.
> I can't even find Bogo's post you quoted.
> 
> @Bogotazo ;Are you dumping me?





Bogotazo said:


> Of course not! I was just mentioning that we hadn't tied the knot yet.





PityTheFool said:


> What a relief! I've already told the kids they're getting a new mom.





Bogotazo said:


> (sun)


This all looks terribly, terribly out of place in here. :rofl


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

*


miniq said:



"Could be a bad shave" please f*ck off with that BS lmao. Unless he is shaving with a rusty spoon then rubbing sweat & piss on his chest without showering for a week then no just no. The guy is hairless anyway so please get the irrational defenses out of your mind.

Click to expand...

*


miniq said:


> Marquez is on something anyone with half a brain can't deny it to themselves...It doesn't take anything away from how much of a great fighter he is...but he shouldn't push it...Advanced random testing is required to 'officially' catch it...but one slip up and Marquez could have his legacy tarnished.
> 
> Marquez is a class above Alvarado. Pacquiao knockout can't really be attributed to PED advantages. The real problem comes when he is fighting a hard 12 round fight with Pacquiao battling for a close decision or with someone like Bradley then managing to edge it due to his unfair PED advantage.


lmao










*The photos of this steroid abuser's violent chest-acne (and the subsequent scarring) ought to be posted in the changing room at every gym in the world. Before you complain about how gross the photos on the click-through below are, just be thankful they didn't photograph his shrivelled, damaged testicles, too.*
_*
He was a constant user of anabolic-androgenic steroids, of which acne is a side effect -- as is damaged sperm and shrunken testicles, both of which he also possessed.*__*Doctors ordered the patient to quit steroids and start taking antibiotics. Two months later, the acne was gone. So was the muscle. Only gruesome scarring remained -- and as his doctors wrote last week in the Lancet, that "is likely to remain with the young man for the rest of his life." *_

http://boingboing.net/2008/08/27/steroid-abusers-horr.html

its one thing to make an idiotic claim about a bad razor and acne to refute a steroid allegation and altogether completely stupid to allege that steroid usage and acne only happens on the back and shoulder...especially when you can simply google it.

https://www.google.com/#q=steroids+acne+on+chest


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> This all looks terribly, terribly out of place in here. :rofl


You're the one who brought it up!:lol:

And anyway,anyone who knows what's what knows Juan would never use PEDs and this is nothing more than a sweat rash.
I've used several test variations,cutting drugs and HGH and I got plenty of acne on my back,but never on my chest.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> You're the one who brought it up!:lol:
> 
> And anyway,anyone who knows what's what knows Juan would never use PEDs and this is nothing more than a sweat rash.
> I've used several test variations,cutting drugs and HGH and I got plenty of acne on my back,but never on my chest.


I did not bring it up :lol:

I told Bogo that he and Felix (not Trinidad) need to be cool after he commented on my avatar. He then mentioned it as part of his reply. :deal


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

PityTheFool said:


> You're the one who brought it up!:lol:
> 
> And anyway,anyone who knows what's what knows Juan would never use PEDs and this is nothing more than a sweat rash.
> I've used several test variations,cutting drugs and HGH and I got plenty of acne on my back,but never on my chest.


Why you go tampering with your endocrine system m8?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

For what it's worth, I also have two random red bumps on my chest out of nowhere. No steroids, not even any chest shaving.


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

steviebruno said:


> If JMM wanted to roid, he'd make gains from it and it would not take years. Months, if anything.


Years if he wants to body build ha. Months (not a couple) if he wants to see gains but I don't see those gains lol. Where are they?


----------



## MEXAMELAC (Apr 14, 2014)

Zopilote said:


> Actually, that same punch that he knocked him down with was the same punch he hurt him with and almost knocked him down with in their first fight..when Manny was younger and much more fresher...except here there was less distance and Juan looked to have loaded up on the shot much more..
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


Simple. He KO'd PAC with literally a PERFECT punch on the chin that Pac walked into. He weigh'd more at Welter, strength training, and loaded a punch that has landed many times. Why is this so hard to believe?


----------



## Hatesrats (Jun 6, 2013)

Juan has finally settled into the 140's & MoFo's can't deal with it... lol
check his record ya fucc's dude always had punching power, Shit has finally carried over.

So peeps are mad because Juan's power has carried?


----------



## PityTheFool (Jun 4, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> Why you go tampering with your endocrine system m8?


Because I was an impatient bastard.
Then the heart attacks and prostate problems mean that I've had 50 Dianabol and several vials of test prop in my fridge for ages.

Also helps that I never seem to get a run at training before some time consuming catastrophe pops up.


----------



## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

It's weird seeing posters who are normally rationale and sensible stretch their mind to find more and more elaborate reasons to convince themselves a fighter isn't juicing, in a sport with some of the worst drug testing on the planet.

Occam's Razor people . . .


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

shaunster101 said:


> Occam's Razor


A razor brand NOTORIOUS for causing red bumps and acne on the body.


----------



## the cobra (Jun 6, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> A razor brand NOTORIOUS for causing red bumps and acne on the body.


:lol:


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

why would marquez shave his chest when he doesnt have chest hair?


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> why would marquez shave his chest when he doesnt have chest hair?


Maybe he doesn't have chest hair _because_ he shaves it. Ever think of that? Did ya?


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Maybe he doesn't have chest hair _because_ he shaves it. Ever think of that? Did ya?


its been twelve years since ive followed jmm and dont ever remember seeing him with chest hair

perhaps jmm has a chest hair fetish or phobia and wont be photographed unless hes unshaven.

after all, those chest zits are much more attractive and photogenic than chest hair


----------



## shaunster101 (Jun 3, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> A razor brand NOTORIOUS for causing red bumps and acne on the body.


:lol:


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

quincy k said:


> its been twelve years since ive followed jmm and dont ever remember seeing him with chest hair
> 
> perhaps jmm has a chest hair fetish or phobia and wont be photographed unless hes unshaven.
> 
> after all, those chest zits are much more attractive and photogenic than chest hair


Fairly plausible from where I'm standing.


----------



## igor_otsky (Jul 24, 2012)

quincy k said:


> why would marquez shave his chest when he doesnt have chest hair?


...so CHB now has Chest experts eh? Haterats being the lead expert then?


----------



## quincy k (Oct 4, 2013)

igor_otsky said:


> ...so CHB now has Chest experts eh? Haterats being the lead expert then?


if you havent noticed chb has steroid experts, health care experts, VADA and USADA experts, legal experts...but i have yet to see anyone provide any form of accreditation


----------



## Jonnybravo (Jun 4, 2013)

Juicers gon juice


----------



## Zico (Jun 5, 2012)

Marquez just KTFO Pacman and then almost knocked Alvarado into the crowd :lol:


----------



## steviebruno (Jun 5, 2013)

Zico said:


> Marquez just KTFO Pacman and then almost knocked Alvarado into the crowd :lol:


Didn't really faze Bradley, though...


----------



## Zico (Jun 5, 2012)

steviebruno said:


> Didn't really faze Bradley, though...


Hmmm .... :think


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

steviebruno said:


> Didn't really faze Bradley, though...


Oh he had Bradley stumble against the ropes from a right hand.


----------

