# Manny Pacquiao's last 10 fights vs. Floyd Mayweather's last 10 fights



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

*Floyd Mayweather Jr. 45-0*

*Zab Judah*, reigning IBF WW champion, coming off Baldomir loss - clear win for Floyd
*Carlos Baldomir*, reigning World WW Champion, coming off career-defining Zab win - shutout 
*Oscar De La Hoya*, top10 P4Per, reigning WBC LMW champion - clear win
*Ricky Hatton*, unbeaten top10 P4P-er, reigning World LWW Champion - YouTube KO
*Juan Manuel Marquez*, top3 P4P-er, reigning WBA/WBO LW champion, coming off Diaz win & controversial Pac loss - shutout
*Shane Mosley*, top10 P4P-er, reigning World WW Champion, coming off superb Margarito KO - dominating win
*Victor Ortiz*, reigning WBC WW champion, coming off career-defining Berto win - YouTube KO
*Miguel Cotto*, reigning WBA LMW champion - dominating win
*Robert Guerrero*, reigning interim WBC WW champion - shutout 
*Saul Alvarez*, top10 P4P-er, reigning & unbeaten WBC/WBA LMW champion - dominating win

That's 10-0 vs. 10 reigning world champions and 5-0 over top10 P4P-ers 
Next possible: unbeaten WBA/WBC LWW champion *Danny Garcia*

*Manny Pacquiao 54-5-2*

*David Diaz*, reigning WBC LW champion coming off controversial win over Morales - Pacquiao KO
*Oscar De La Hoya*, coming off Floyd loss & tune-up - late retirement
*Ricky Hatton*, coming off Floyd loss & Malignaggi win - YouTube KO
*Miguel Cotto*, reigning WBO WW champion, coming off debated win over Clottey - late stoppage
*Joshua Clottey*, coming off debared loss to Cotto, - shutout
*Antonio Margarito*, coming off Mosley loss & tune-up - dominating win
*Shane Mosley*, coming off Floyd loss & Mora draw - dominating win
*Juan Manuel Marquez*, top10 P4P-er - highly controversial win
*Timothy Bradley*, top10 P4P-er, reigning WBO LWW champion - controversial loss
*Juan Manual Marquez*, top10 P4P-er, reigning interim WBO LWW champion - YouTube KO loss

That's 8-2, 2-2 vs. reigning world champions and 1-2 vs. top10 P4P-ers
Next: *Brandon Rios* coming off Mike Alvarado loss


----------



## Abraham (May 9, 2013)

I've seen all 20. Pac didn't stop Margarito.


----------



## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

People say Floyd has a weak resume, but in 10 years when people look back at it people will be astounded how deep it is.


----------



## Abraham (May 9, 2013)

I saw 15 of them in real time...wow, I watch a lot of boxing.


----------



## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

oibighead said:


> People say Floyd has a weak resume, but in 10 years when people look back at it people will be astounded how deep it is.


What gives me chills is, what the hell were you doing in 1998? Floyd was fighting at the highest level in the sport then too


----------



## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

Hands of Iron said:


> What gives me chills is, what the hell were you doing in 1998? Floyd was fighting at the highest level in the sport then too


Has only ever fought the top men in the divisions he is in. Never ducked anyone either.

Signed to fight judah when he was number 1, when judah lost his tune up Floyd fought the guy who had beaten Judah as well.

Only time anyone has really come close to beating him, he was injured during the fight. Proved it in the rematch.


----------



## Atlanta (Sep 17, 2012)

Mayweather argubly locked up an HOF bid by the end of 2001 with his Super Featherweight title reign which had wins over Hernandez, Manfredy, Corrales, and Jesus Chavez. He certainly locked it up by 2005 with his wins over Arturo Gatti and Castillo(amongst others). So he's been a lock for at least 8 if not 12 to make it into the hall and everything else has been icing on the cake since. If they wanted, they could scrap the fucking icing off and make another entire cake from it.


----------



## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

Atlanta said:


> Mayweather argubly locked up an HOF bid by the end of 2001 with his Super Featherweight title reign which had wins over Hernandez, Manfredy, Corrales, and Jesus Chavez. He certainly locked it up by 2005 with his wins over Arturo Gatti and Castillo(amongst others). So he's been a lock for at least 8 if not 12 to make it into the hall and everything else has been icing on the cake since. If they wanted, they could scrap the fucking icing off and make another entire cake from it.


Yep, PBF is a hall of fame fighter, FMM is a hall of fame fighter.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

Atlanta said:


> Mayweather argubly locked up an HOF bid by the end of 2001 with his Super Featherweight title reign which had wins over Hernandez, Manfredy, Corrales, and Jesus Chavez. He certainly locked it up by 2005 with his wins over Arturo Gatti and Castillo(amongst others). So he's been a lock for at least 8 if not 12 to make it into the hall and everything else has been icing on the cake since. If they wanted, they could scrap the fucking icing off and make another entire cake from it.


Certainly a HOF'er by the end of the Castillo 2 fight.


----------



## Brownies (Jun 7, 2013)

oibighead said:


> Yep, PBF is a hall of fame fighter, FMM is a hall of fame fighter.


Haha nicely put ! :cheers


----------



## SimplyTuck (Jun 4, 2013)

Mayweather is top ten pound for pound atg already... Yeah I said it.


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

SimplyTuck said:


> Mayweather is top ten pound for pound atg already... Yeah I said it.


Harder to make a case against it than supporting it.


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

Anyone who actually keeps up with boxing knows Floyd got the better resume. I've been saying this for years.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Both have very solid resumes for their eras. They sort of pale in comparison to resumes of times gone by but thats just the way boxing is now.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

Also I'm sure Cotto was n the top ten P4P when Pacquaio fought him.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

I've seen all of those in real time :lol: Floyd a G


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

The only one I didn't watch live was Mayweather -Guerrero as I knew it would be a bad fight, Mayweather would dominate and I just couldn't be arsed to stay up for it.

I prob wouldn't have stayed up last night if Garcia-Matthysse wasn't on the undercard to be fair. One sided matches jsut don't do much for me.


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

Chatty said:


> Also I'm sure Cotto was n the top ten P4P when Pacquaio fought him.


Was he 2 fight after Margo? :think


----------



## Eoghan (Jun 6, 2013)

SimplyTuck said:


> Mayweather is top ten pound for pound atg already... Yeah I said it.


You know what? I say that's possible, think it's a bit premature ATM, if he continues to dominate quality opposition...


----------



## O59 (Jul 8, 2012)

BigBone said:


> Harder to make a case against it than supporting it.


No it isn't mate.

He wasn't among the top ten fighters to ever live before beating Canelo, and he's not there after, either. Tremendous talent, locked in for the Hall of Fame, probably top 25-20 when all is said and done but he can't compete with the depth and excellence of top ten guys just yet, though I'm not bothered to debate it anymore because fantasy lists and numbers are getting really boring and irrelevant.

He's one of the best ever, can we just leave it at that? :conf


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

BigBone said:


> Was he 2 fight after Margo? :think


I think so, down at the bottom end. I'll have to have a look through my old magazines but I'm sure they still had him around 8-12, he retty much stayed top ten around the back end until he lost back to back against Floyd and Trout.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Chatty said:


> I think so, down at the bottom end. I'll have to have a look through my old magazines but I'm sure they still had him around 8-12, he retty much stayed top ten around the back end until he lost back to back against Floyd and Trout.


How he was Top 10 after looking like gash in the Clottey fight and getting drubbed by Margs is beyond me.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

turbotime said:


> How he was Top 10 after looking like gash in the Clottey fight and getting drubbed by Margs is beyond me.


Cause he still won the Clottey fight and they go by official results. I can;t remember properly but I'm sure he was around 4-5 before margo so the loss didn't knock him out of the rankings. Don't think it was a solid time for boxers either, lots of guys beating each other.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

BigBone said:


> *Floyd Mayweather Jr. 45-0*
> 
> *Zab Judah*, reigning IBF WW champion, coming off Baldomir loss - clear win for Floyd
> *Carlos Baldomir*, reigning World WW Champion, coming off career-defining Zab win - shutout
> ...


I'd say Pacquiao had the edge until he faltered in his last couple of fights. DeLaHoya and Mosley were both about a year older when they fought Pacquiao, but they were notably past their primes in all four fights. Cotto was much closer to his peak and at a more ideal weight when Pacquiao fought him, Hatton was also at his preferred weight class, and Clottey was at least as good, if not better than some of the titleholders under Floyd's name IMO.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

BigBone said:


> Harder to make a case against it than supporting it.


On the contrary, all you'd need to do his compare his resume to the mammoth resumes of some of the fighters generally considered in the top 10 - i.e: Robinson, Greb, Langford, Walker, etc.


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Chatty said:


> Also I'm sure Cotto was n the top ten P4P when Pacquaio fought him.


No. He was coming off decimating loss to Margs and a highly controversial win (which he lost) to Clottey. He may've been around ~10, but nobody gave Cotto much of a chance versus the juicing Filipino.

Manny's Cotto win was not impressive.


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> On the contrary, all you'd need to do his compare his resume to the mammoth resumes of some of the fighters generally considered in the top 10 - i.e: Robinson, Greb, Langford, Walker, etc.


Generation bias


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

bjl12 said:


> No. He was coming off decimating loss to Margs and a highly controversial win (which he lost) to Clottey. He may've been around ~10, but nobody gave Cotto much of a chance versus the juicing Filipino.
> 
> Manny's Cotto win was not impressive.


I didnt think he would win but polls from the time had more people picking Cotto than Pacquaio. He was almost definitely still in the top ten.

Not that this will matter as your hate for Pacquaio is so bad that its pointless even taking to you on the subject.


----------



## sim_reiss (Jun 6, 2012)

The accusation that Floyd ducks certain fighters has been around for as long as I've followed Boxing but when I thought about it, the only ones that stand out for me are 2010/11 Pacquiao and 2008 Cotto, which happened to coincide with his "retirements". Are there any others that I've either forgotten or are further back in his career (i.e. pre-Oscar)?


----------



## 2377 (Jun 6, 2013)

Ugh, can we just stop this? You can spin shit like this all over the place, just depends on point of view...



BigBone said:


> *Floyd Mayweather Jr. 45-0*
> 
> *Zab Judah* IBF titlist (somehow kept title after Baldomir defeat)
> *Carlos Baldomir* linear 147 champ, but arguably not a top 10 WW at the time
> ...





BigBone said:


> That's 10-0 vs. 10 reigning world champions and 5-0 over top10 P4P-ers


You need to learn the difference between a TITLIST (let alone interim titlist, paper titlist, etc) and CHAMPION. Very different things.

Look people, Floyd should've fought Pacquiao in his prime (would've been nice to also see Casamayor, Tszyu, Cotto, Margarito, Martinez, etc, but I digress) but HE DIDN'T. Now it's too late. We all know they'll fight in 2015 but it won't matter by then. These constant comparisons are ridiculous. May and Pac didn't fight and it's a shame, but comparing PPV buys and all these "last 10" lists and catchweight arguments and shit is beyond old. Pactards and Flomos spin things and use selective memory to push their arguments; it's all been done before.

Let's move on.


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

Montero said:


> Ugh, can we just stop this? You can spin shit like this all over the place, just depends on point of view...
> 
> You need to learn the difference between a TITLIST (let alone interim titlist, paper titlist, etc) and CHAMPION. Very different things.
> 
> ...


Great post


----------



## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

they both have great resumes. not gonna sugarcoat or discredit a win from either fighter.

void puts himself easy top 30

pac about top 50 with the KO loss and controversial victories over JMM


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

"Coming off loss" doesn't mean you lost at some point prior, it means you had just lost. Cotto, Margarito, Hatton were not coming off losses.



Montero said:


> Ugh, can we just stop this? You can spin shit like this all over the place, just depends on point of view...
> 
> You need to learn the difference between a TITLIST (let alone interim titlist, paper titlist, etc) and CHAMPION. Very different things.
> 
> ...


:clap:


----------



## BigBone (Jun 13, 2012)

Montero said:


> Ugh, can we just stop this? You can spin shit like this all over the place, just depends on point of view...
> 
> You need to learn the difference between a TITLIST (let alone interim titlist, paper titlist, etc) and CHAMPION. Very different things.


I guess you'll have to educate writers and Michael Buffer too since they call say the WBC Champion um... WBC Champion? :lol: The World Champion as per universally recognized top dawg were noted, not my problem you don't know the difference.


----------



## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Both of these lists are remarkable by anyone's standard. It's a damn shame the world never got to see them fight each other in 2010.
It's worth noting Mayweather's last 10 fights span 7 and a half years whereas Pacquiao's spans only 4 and half years.


----------



## Macho_Grande (Jun 6, 2012)

Why do people always say, Floyd should have fought Pac…. Perhaps its Pac that should have fought Floyd..

Its also laughable that people questioned Floyds record due to the absence of Margarito & Williams.

Its laughable really.


----------



## Gunner (Jun 4, 2013)

Nice thread, Bone, interesting.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

bjl12 said:


> No. He was coming off decimating loss to Margs and a highly controversial win (which he lost) to Clottey. He may've been around ~10, but nobody gave Cotto much of a chance versus the juicing Filipino.
> 
> Manny's Cotto win was not impressive.


The Ring's P4P rankings in 2009:




Manny Pacquiao
Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Shane Mosley
Bernard Hopkins
Juan Manuel Marquez
Nonito Donaire
*Miguel Cotto*
Celestino Caballero
Chad Dawson
Paul Williams


----------



## ^_^ (Sep 2, 2013)

Manny's win over Bradley shits over Floyd's wins over Cotto, Ortiz, Guerrero, and Canelo. Bradley was a P4P beast and 99% of ESB said that Manny would duck the young, hungry, slick, and black undefeated fighter.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

^_^ said:


> Manny's win over Bradley shits over Floyd's wins over Cotto, Ortiz, Guerrero, and Canelo. Bradley was a P4P beast and 99% of ESB said that Manny would duck the young, hungry, slick, and black undefeated fighter.


I'm glad Pacquiao fought Bradley and I was asking for that fight for at least a year :thumbsup

I had actually argued before Mayweather v Cotto that Bradley should be in the p4p list over Cotto. Oh but that win isn't over Canelo or Cotto. FLoyd moved up in weight to fight the both of them and Pacquiao dragged Bradley up to 147


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I had actually argued before Mayweather v Cotto that Bradley should be in the p4p list over Cotto.


He was.




Manny Pacquiao
Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Sergio Gabriel Martinez
Nonito Donaire
Juan Manuel Marquez
Wladimir Klitschko
Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
Timothy Bradley
Giovanni Segura
Andre Ward


----------



## tliang1000 (Jun 5, 2013)

^_^ said:


> Manny's win over Bradley shits over Floyd's wins over Cotto, Ortiz, Guerrero, and Canelo. Bradley was a P4P beast and 99% of ESB said that Manny would duck the young, hungry, slick, and black undefeated fighter.


Negative. Canelo win >>> Timmy win.


----------



## DobyZhee (May 19, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I'm glad Pacquiao fought Bradley and I was asking for that fight for at least a year :thumbsup
> 
> I had actually argued before Mayweather v Cotto that Bradley should be in the p4p list over Cotto. Oh but that win isn't over Canelo or Cotto. FLoyd moved up in weight to fight the both of them and Pacquiao dragged Bradley up to 147


pac would have murdered timmeh at 140..


----------



## bjl12 (Jun 5, 2013)

All I gotta say is:


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> He was.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know he was, but the were ppl on ESB that disagreed with it. I thought his ranking was very fair


DobyZhee said:


> pac would have murdered timmeh at 140..


yep, the same way Floyd would have murdered Hatton at 140 :hey


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

BigBone said:


> *Floyd Mayweather Jr. 45-0*
> 
> *Zab Judah*, reigning IBF WW champion, coming off Baldomir loss - clear win for Floyd
> *Carlos Baldomir*, reigning World WW Champion, coming off career-defining Zab win - shutout
> ...


This is the epitome of a one sides POV. Negatives on Pac's opponents, but you conveniently ignore any on the FMjr side. This is just a bad post all together.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mal said:


> This is the epitome of a one sides POV. Negatives on Pac's opponents, but you conveniently ignore any on the FMjr side. This is just a bad post all together.


can you point out the biases in it please


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> can you point out the biases in it please


You really cannot see it? :huh If you are being honest, it's not that hard to see. He went out of his way to show negatives on Pac's side, but not on any of Floyd's. If you honestly can't see it, then my telling you which ones doesn't matter. You're probably already set in your ways.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mal said:


> You really cannot see it? :huh If you are being honest, it's not that hard to see. He went out of his way to show negatives on Pac's side, but not on any of Floyd's. If you honestly can't see it, then my telling you which ones doesn't matter. You're probably already set in your ways.


the same negative things he did to Pacquiao, he did to Floyd's resume also


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> the same negative things he did to Pacquiao, he did to Floyd's resume also


You cannot be this blind guy. He didn't dare mention Hatton moving up, or even JMM. Calling Judah the IBF champ because unpaid sanctioning fees was the only reason he had it, to make Judah's inclusion on his list look better? It's just sugar coating. And again, if you honestly cannot see it, then you aren't any more unbiased.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mal said:


> You cannot be this blind guy. He didn't dare mention Hatton moving up, or even JMM. Calling Judah the IBF champ because unpaid sanctioning fees was the only reason he had it, to make Judah's inclusion on his list look better? It's just sugar coating. And again, if you honestly cannot see it, then you aren't any more unbiased.


He didn't mention anybody moving up. he just mentioned their ranking and what they did in current fights. No bias involved in it man. Don't get offended if the truth isn't what you want to hear.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> He didn't mention anybody moving up. he just mentioned their ranking and what they did in current fights. No bias involved in it man. Don't get offended if the truth isn't what you want to hear.


No one is getting offended, don't get your panties in a bunch assuming posters get offended (See what I did there? :hey). Why wouldn't one mention fighters moving up, if he was going to nitpick as much as he did on Pac's? Don't you see that?

Well, I think you're a pretty decent poster (unlike the trash talkers who can only talk trash), but you've pretty much showed me you aren't any more unbiased then the bone guy, if you cannot see it right in front of you. We'll just disagree on this, since I refuse to to go back and forth with a closed mind.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mal said:


> No one is getting offended, don't get your panties in a bunch assuming posters get offended (See what I did there? :hey). Why wouldn't one mention fighters moving up, if he was going to nitpick as much as he did on Pac's? Don't you see that?
> 
> Well, I think you're a pretty decent poster (unlike the trash talkers who can only talk trash), but you've pretty much showed me you aren't any more unbiased then the bone guy, if you cannot see it right in front of you. We'll just disagree on this, since I refuse to spot to a wall.


I really don't see what the problem is man. He didn't even mention that Floyd came up in weight against Cotto, Oscar and Canelo. He also didn't include that Oscar came down in weight to fight Pacquiao


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I really don't see what the problem is man. He didn't even mention that Floyd came up in weight against Cotto, Oscar and Canelo. He also didn't include that Oscar came down in weight to fight Pacquiao


I know you don't see, you made that abundantly clear. And that's perfectly alright, no on is perfect. I'm not either.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I really don't see what the problem is man. He didn't even mention that Floyd came up in weight against Cotto, Oscar and Canelo. He also didn't include that Oscar came down in weight to fight Pacquiao


Spot on post really.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Spot on post really.


thanks man. I just can't see what the problem is. Maybe he issue shouldn't be with the TS, but with Pacquiao's opponents :conf


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> thanks man. I just can't see what the problem is. Maybe he issue shouldn't be with the TS, but with Pacquiao's opponents :conf


:rolleyes Give me a break. It doesn't take a nuclear physicist to see that some younger posters have difficulties being completely unbiased. But you got someone to agree with you, so nothing left to be said.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mal said:


> :rolleyes Give me a break. It doesn't take a nuclear physicist to see that some younger posters have difficulties being completely unbiased. But *you got someone to agree with you, *so nothing left to be said.


I guess you're disappointed that nobody agrees with you


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I guess you're disappointed that nobody agrees with you


I don't post to be popular. Anyone can do that, since it takes no thought process at all. Just go with the flow and you'll be liked by all. I'm sure you are pretty popular here with others. I came to exchange ideas and theories. Not to join the cheerleading squad.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mal said:


> I don't post to be popular. Anyone can do that, since it takes no thought process at all. Just go with the flow and you'll be liked by all. I'm sure you are pretty popular here with others. I came to exchange ideas and theories. Not to join the cheerleading squad.


and the theory you came with this time is that the list is biased?

It would be biased if he included that Pacquiao's opponents were coming off of losses and didn't do the same for Floyd's. But he did it for both. The same exact details were put on each opponent. Their ranking, the titles they held and the current streaks they were on


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> and the theory you came with this time is that the list is biased?
> 
> It would be biased if he included that Pacquiao's opponents were coming off of losses and didn't do the same for Floyd's. But he did it for both. The same exact details were put on each opponent. Their ranking, the titles they held and the current streaks they were on


Boxing is more then "Coming off a loss", and I see so many posters say that as if it makes a win irrelevant. As I said, it's the negatives attached to Pac's side, without being fair and balanced about Floyd's opponents. It's not just about a win or loss, there's more to a fight then just that. And it's become clear that there is nothing i can say that will make you understand. I'm just going to hope as you get wiser, and understand boxing more, as a sport, you'll see how you thought when you were younger.

Looik, I get it. When I was an early 20yo, I had my faves, and I was probably as unbiased as you and the others here are. But as you grow physically, hopefully your mind does too. And if you can be honest with yourself, then you've made a HUGE leap to being a better boxing fan, and less a boxer fan.

I have to laugh at you, and the TS, using ABC org rankings as some form or justification, or the fact they they hold a belt. That's the simplest, easiest, and inconclusive way to put it, in a very complicated and corrupted sport. Again, if you really cannot see what I meant, then just agree to disagree, and go back to being popular for now. I have nothing left to say on this.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Mal said:


> Boxing is more then "Coming off a loss", and I see so many posters say that as if it makes a win irrelevant. As I said, it's the negatives attached to Pac's side, without being fair and balanced about Floyd's opponents. It's not just about a win or loss, there's more to a fight then just that. And it's become clear that there is nothing i can say that will make you understand. I'm just going to hope as you get wiser, and understand boxing more, as a sport, you'll see how you thought when you were younger.
> 
> Looik, I get it. When I was an early 20yo, I had my faves, and I was probably as unbiased as you and the others here are. But as you grow physically, hopefully your mind does too. And if you can be honest with yourself, then you've made a HUGE leap to being a better boxing fan, and less a boxer fan.
> 
> I have to laugh at you, and the TS, using ABC org rankings as some form or justification, or the fact they they hold a belt. That's the simplest, easiest, and inconclusive way to put it, in a very complicated and corrupted sport. Again, if you really cannot see what I meant, then just agree to disagree, and go back to being popular for now. I have nothing left to say on this.


I know what you're saying, but like I've already said multiple times. he gave the same exact details for each opponent on both sides. He mentioned how Judah and Marquez were coming off of recent losses when they fought Floyd.

You think this list is biased because it makes Pacquiao look bad, but it's not distorting the truth. He mentions that Pacquiao fought guys on the p4p lists and guys with titles


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I know what you're saying, but like I've already said multiple times. he gave the same exact details for each opponent on both sides. He mentioned how Judah and Marquez were coming off of recent losses when they fought Floyd.
> 
> You think this list is biased because it makes Pacquiao look bad, but it's not distorting the truth. He mentions that Pacquiao fought guys on the p4p lists and guys with titles


The TS was listing last ten wins, while giving his opinion on quality the fighter, right? Why didn't he mention anything about the weight incident w/ JMM? Or how he jumped up two divisions? Instead he says "Top 3 P4P" fighter. Which is misleading, since they were two divisions apart. But no mention of that. If he's going to list their last wins, and give an honest opinion of them (which is what he tried to do, and you defend), isn't that relevant? I sure think it is.

And why even list Judah as a champ, when we know that was not the case? I know he had a belt, but no way was Judah a champion of anything. And, as I mentioned w/ Hatton, why not mention, again, how he moved up for it despite struggling with a mere bottom contender in Collazo? But no, he lists him as a "Top 10 P4Per". he obvioulsy was choosy and careful how he labeled each fighter.

It's little things like that which he leaves off, or added conveniently.

Both Floyd and Pac have fantastic resumes. Their last ten fights are both very good. But he tries to add a little more negativity to Pac's, without being consistent on Floyd's.

Why not add what a terrible "win" Floyd got over Ortiz? No one cares about sucker punch wins, even if by the rules. Or how Cotto had been beaten up pretty badly several times before Floyd got to him, and fighting in a division neither really belong in?

I might be making a little bigger deal of of this, I can admit it. But I think being honest and consistent should be everyone's priority here. Otherwise this is just a board of cheerleaders patting each other on the backs.

I like Pac, I like FMjr, I LOVE boxing, but I won't fool myself just to try to fool others.


----------



## D-MONEY (Jun 4, 2013)

One thing I noticed is he has to go back two oppoents to be able to say coming off of loss on Pacs side...like on DLH or Margarito..so they weren't really "coming off a loss" but it sounds nice


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> thanks man. I just can't see what the problem is. Maybe he issue shouldn't be with the TS, but with Pacquiao's opponents :conf


he refuses to answer you straight up about what the biases are, nothing needs to be said, youre not changing his mind. :lol:


----------



## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

What's even more impressive is he fought the Lineal Champion at 130 Genaro Hernandez, #2 ranked Angel Manfredy, top 5 P4P, top 3 at 130 Diego Corrales, and so on, right? And now at 154, he also fights the Ring Champion Canelo Alvarez, #1 ranked Miguel Cotto, and #3 ranked Oscar De La Hoya.

How impressive is that. He has been Lineal/Ring champion in every weight class he's fought in excluding 140. No phony vacant titles.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

how fucking sickening is it that people think floyds already a top 10 p4p atg


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

turbotime said:


> he refuses to answer you straight up about what the biases are, nothing needs to be said, youre not changing his mind. :lol:


Feel free to read up a couple of posts TT. A little late for a politicking, no? Don't worry, you're still more popular then I, which is all you care about. :cheers

See what D-money wrote. I'm not the only one who noticed the inconsistency applied. And that was all I was getting at.


----------



## EngorgedW/Blood (Jun 5, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> how fucking sickening is it that people think floyds already a top 10 p4p atg


Floyd Mayweather Jr is the greatest "boxer" any one who's watched boxing for decades admits they have seen.

He is #1 in the actual boxing department. No one is better.

As an ATG, which is accomplishment wise, he's top 20-25.

Roy Jones Jr is the GOAT on tape though (In my young eyes, and from the limited footage i've seen of past greats). And this is one of only two fighters, prime vs prime, pound for pound, who I can see beating Floyd, in boxing history, at least as far as the SRR era. SRL is the other fighter I can see prime vs prime beating Floyd.


----------



## megavolt (Jun 5, 2013)

couple comments- 

Hatton and Cotto were still top 10 per ring mag when Pac fought them (10 and 8 respectively). I remember cuz I was checkin that shit back then when I casually followed it

Also sorta don't like how the Cotto-Clottey controversy denied credit for both of Pacquiao's wins that's kinda sketch. Other than that the list is fine. Obvious clear agenda though, why not just compare their whole careers


----------



## charlie harper (May 18, 2013)

In 1998 I was in fourth grade and Mayweather was already in the Top10 P4P rankings, and was fighter of the year. Wow.

I think only guys like Moore and Duran had this kind of longevity, and both didn't look so well as Floyd at 36.


----------



## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

Chatty said:


> I didnt think he would win but polls from the time had more people picking Cotto than Pacquaio. He was almost definitely still in the top ten.
> 
> Not that this will matter as your hate for Pacquaio is so bad that its pointless even taking to you on the subject.


No they werent. I was in vegas at the time. Cotto was the underdog. Manny was the favorite. Both in the polls and on the betting lines.


----------



## lurker (May 27, 2013)

I hope the agenda was not to belittle the other guy. Because mere listing of title holders fought over 10 fights does not factor in a lot of important/interesting things. Such as why mention p4p ranking when a p4p list is a fantasy ranking on how boxers fare if they were all proportioned out in size/weight. It also presents a rosy picture for fighting a p4p fighter moving up 2 weight classes.

In my humble opinion, a 10 fight list such as this deserves further discussion as the thread provides, to educate us all. What I hate is the fanboyism of people who label themselves groupies. @Mal is right about posters' popularities here.


----------



## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

elterrible said:


> No they werent. I was in vegas at the time. Cotto was the underdog. Manny was the favorite. Both in the polls and on the betting lines.


He was in betting, al the plls I saw had Cotto edging him.


----------



## The Undefeated Gaul (Jun 4, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> Floyd Mayweather Jr is the greatest "boxer" any one who's watched boxing for decades admits they have seen.
> 
> He is #1 in the actual boxing department. No one is better.
> 
> ...


Why do you have Mayweather so high, at Top 20-25? I have him in around 30th.

Pernell Whitaker is 20th and his marquee wins shit all over Mayweather's.

I remember I was taken the piss out of on ESB for saying he'd be around 22nd if he beat a Pacquiao that looks as dangerous as ever after recovering from the KO loss to JMM, beating Canelo AND Martinez (pre-Murray)...


----------



## ^_^ (Sep 2, 2013)

*If FLOYD Had Fought and Dominated MANNY in 2010, His Resume Would Be Bulletproof.*

As close to bulletproof as there is. People would stop bringing up Cotto (147) and Margarito and they wouldn't expect him to fight Sergio or GGG. He could coast to an undefeated career fighting Khan, Alexander, Garcia and Maidana and people would be like he's done everything.


----------



## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

:cry


----------



## ^_^ (Sep 2, 2013)

DrMo said:


> :cry


Am I right or am I right?


----------



## Gunner (Jun 4, 2013)

Yup. He could have actually retired right afterward probably higher ranked than he will now (unless he beats him beforehand)

And if Pac had beat Floyd he would be ranked higher than him, as it is, he currently isn't, and as the inferior of the two fighters will be looked upon better with regards to the fight not happening.


----------



## DrMo (Jun 6, 2012)

^_^ said:


> Am I right or am I right?


I'm crying because you've started yet another shit thread :good


----------



## ^_^ (Sep 2, 2013)

DrMo said:


> I'm crying because you've started yet another shit thread :good


:cheers


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

No people would've said "well what do you expect he couldn't even beat old Morales or Marquez how was he going to beat Mayweather" and giving barely any credit to Mayweather. He's made himself hard to like and give credit to, sad fact of the boxing world.


----------



## ^_^ (Sep 2, 2013)

turbotime said:


> No people would've said "well what do you expect he couldn't even beat old Morales or Marquez how was he going to beat Mayweather" and giving barely any credit to Mayweather. He's made himself hard to like and give credit to, sad fact of the boxing world.


Disagree. Pac was on a fucking tear. The world asked for the fight. A Floyd win would have cemented his legacy right there on the spot.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

^_^ said:


> Disagree. Pac was on a fucking tear. The world asked for the fight. A Floyd win would have cemented his legacy right there on the spot.


No, as soon as the fight got signed and Floyd dominated the excuses would come. Just like the excuses came after he beat Mosley who the whole boxing world said he wouldn't fight "after he called him out after Marquez and Floyd got scared"

Mosley was old
Pac was tailor made
Marquez was small
Hatton was bloated (lol)

etc.


----------



## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

Pac was a different animal TT, the hype was so big, there would have been 0 dispute, there's no way he could have been said to be too old or inexperienced. Some might say JMM already figured him out, but the ones who say that are Floyd's fans himself.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

If he dominated like OnePunch says the excuses would've came no doubt in my mind. 

Pac would most likely blame it on blood draining like he did for Morales, and his zombie fans would agree :lol:


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> can you point out the biases in it please


The most obvious example I see is that he's quick to point out whenever a Mayweather opponent is "P4P" rated, but he fails to mention that Cotto and Hatton were P4P rated when Pacquiao fought them.



bballchump11 said:


> It would be biased if he included that Pacquiao's opponents were coming off of losses and didn't do the same for Floyd's. *But he did it for both.*


Not quite true - he makes no mention of DeLaHoya having basically quit to a body shot two fights earlier, or arguably losing to Sturm in his fight before that (effectively having lost 2 of his last 3 fights). He also doesn't describe Cotto as "coming off a loss to Pacquiao" a few fights earlier, or Ortiz as "coming off a loss to Maidana," despite doing the same for Hatton several fights after losing to Mayweather. He doesn't mention that Canelo was "coming off a debatable win" in his previous fight the way he does for Cotto. He also doesn't mention that Hatton had gotten a debatable win over Collazo two fights before Mayweather.


----------



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Sittin Sonny said:


> The most obvious example I see is that he's quick to point out whenever a Mayweather opponent is "P4P" rated, but he fails to mention that Cotto and Hatton were P4P rated when Pacquiao fought them.
> 
> Not quite true - he makes no mention of DeLaHoya having basically quit to a body shot two fights earlier, or arguably losing to Sturm in his fight before that (effectively having lost 2 of his last 3 fights). He also doesn't describe Cotto as "coming off a loss to Pacquiao" a few fights earlier, or Ortiz as "coming off a loss to Maidana," despite doing the same for Hatton several fights after losing to Mayweather. He doesn't mention that Canelo was "coming off a debatable win" in his previous fight the way he does for Cotto. He also doesn't mention that Hatton had gotten a debatable win over Collazo two fights before Mayweather.


you made a better point than @Mal who pretty much went around in circles the whole time. I don't know how far back the TS was going with the current streaks they were on, but you'll have to ask him about that


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> He is #1 in the actual boxing department. No one is better.


I have a huge fucking problem with this. He didn't PROVE his skills against true all time greats like the ones in the past did. So I can't agree.



> As an ATG, which is accomplishment wise, he's top 20-25.


More like top 30 for me. Accomplishment-wise he doesn't really have any all time great wins that can compare to the top 30 ATGs.



> Roy Jones Jr is the GOAT on tape though (In my young eyes, and from the limited footage i've seen of past greats). And this is one of only two fighters, prime vs prime, pound for pound, who I can see beating Floyd, in boxing history, at least as far as the SRR era. SRL is the other fighter I can see prime vs prime beating Floyd.


Jones doesn't have any wins over real All Time Greats besides Toney (wieght drained) and Hopkins (possibly green?)

I don't even know what to say about SRL being the only one beating Floyd. SRR would fucking knock Floyd out. So would Hearns. Griffith would wear him down to a decision. Duran beats him down over 12 rounds. Whitaker beats him at his own game. Benitez would have a huge chance to do the same. Gavilan could possibly knock him out. Armstrong beats him up on the inside. Come on man, it's too easy


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

BigBone said:


> Harder to make a case against it than supporting it.


i dont think so, just look at the records of those commonly held in the top 10 and compare it to Floyd's. There is no comparison between his and, say Greb's, or Duran's, or Ali's, or Robinson's, or Ray Leonard's, or Ezzard Charles' or Langford's etc imho. Not to say he's not a great fighter, but breaking the top 20 would be a big achievement now for him.


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

EngorgedW/Blood said:


> Floyd Mayweather Jr is the greatest "boxer" any one who's watched boxing for decades admits they have seen.
> 
> He is #1 in the actual boxing department. No one is better.
> 
> ...


You cant believe this?


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

JamieC said:


> You cant believe this?


talking to me?


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> talking to me?


no the guy saying Floyd is the number1 in the boxing department ever :lol: and that only a couple of people could beat him h2h, jones and leonard :conf


----------



## Raging B(_)LL (Jul 14, 2013)

charlie harper said:


> I think only guys like Moore and Duran had this kind of longevity, *and both didn't look so well as Floyd at 36*.


 While that may be true, one should keep in mind the extraordinary amount of fights both of those men had by the time they were 36 years of age. There was a lot more wear and tear on their bodies due to their busy fighting schedule`s against for the most part consistently tough opposition. If Floyd had been fighting at that rate since his pro debut he would have surely lost at least a couple of fights along the way by now. But no one at the top in boxing today fights that often anymore with the only exception in recent memory being James Toney who is now retired for all intents and purpose, now he was a real throwback to the days when fighters kept in fighting shape by fighting often, a dying and all but extinct breed of fighter sadly in this day and age.


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> I have a huge fucking problem with this. He didn't PROVE his skills against true all time greats like the ones in the past did. So I can't agree.
> 
> More like top 30 for me. Accomplishment-wise he doesn't really have any all time great wins that can compare to the top 30 ATGs.
> 
> ...


Who is this retard?


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Who is this retard?


mad cause I aint on floyds dick? fuck off


----------



## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> mad cause I aint on floyds dick? fuck off


Pretty easy to say Floyd loses to a bunch of ATG welterweights when Floyd needs to eat a large meal before a fight to make 150, whatever, typical hater shit, but saying James Toney weight drained and Hopkins was pissibly green shows how big a *** you are.

Jones has solid resume, best of his era and h2h arguably the GOAT, so stfu with that shit


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Pretty easy to say Floyd loses to a bunch of ATG welterweights when Floyd needs to eat a large meal before a fight to make 150, whatever, typical hater shit, but saying James Toney weight drained and Hopkins was pissibly green shows how big a *** you are.
> 
> Jones has solid resume, best of his era and h2h arguably the GOAT, so stfu with that shit


I wasn't talking about the 150 thing. It's not really so insulting for Floyd to lose to ATG welterweights. Floyd is great, but not that great.

I am just repeating what I've heard. Toney was weight drained to a certain point. Hopkins wasn't as good as he would become IMO and lacked the experience, but of course those are still 2 great wins. I'm not really hating on either of them, I actually love watching Jones fight against Vinnie Paz and watching him destroy Griffith in the rematch.

I mean, I don't think Jones is the GOAT solely based off of his resume. You can do the eye test all you want but that's more objective. I like to rank ATGs off of resume moreso than the eye test. To me, he doesn't have the resume to be considered better than Ali, SRL, Greb, SRR, Louis, Duran, etc.


----------



## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Pretty easy to say Floyd loses to a bunch of ATG welterweights when Floyd needs to eat a large meal before a fight to make 150, whatever, typical hater shit, but saying James Toney weight drained and Hopkins was pissibly green shows how big a *** you are.
> 
> Jones has solid resume, best of his era and h2h arguably the GOAT, so stfu with that shit


Tommygun is a hater of Jones and Mayweather, it's been established a lot already.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> Tommygun is a hater of Jones and Mayweather, it's been established a lot already.


no i'm not at all a hater that's where you are wrong. I'm in the Mayweather>Pacquiao camp. I think they were both the best of their eras. I honestly love watching Jones destroy people in his prime.


----------



## Sittin Sonny (Jun 10, 2013)

JamieC said:


> i dont think so, just look at the records of those commonly held in the top 10 and compare it to Floyd's. There is no comparison between his and, say Greb's, or Duran's, or Ali's, or Robinson's, or Ray Leonard's, or Ezzard Charles' or Langford's etc imho.


I pointed out the same thing earlier, but apparently it was just something called "generation bias." :lol:



JamieC said:


> Not to say he's not a great fighter, but breaking the top 20 would be a big achievement now for him.


I maintain that Mayweather needed the Pacquiao fight (or something of equal worth) to have a claim to the top 20. As it stands now, he has a lot of very good, solid wins, but no single spectacular win on par with the likes of Duran over Leonard, Ali over Liston and Foreman, Whitaker over Chavez(unofficially), Jones over Toney, etc. IMO, the only fighter he beat that was still great _at the time_ was Marquez, and he was jumping straight up two weight classes (and after fighting at 130 only a year earlier) for an intended catchweight fight that he was subsequently screwed out of.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

gotta love when you're in a real debate and mothafuckas scream HATER when all else fails :rofl


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> Tommygun is a hater of Jones and Mayweather, it's been established a lot already.


Isn't that the guy that said Griffin was just a mediocre contender :lol:

By the way Tommy it's Griffin not Griffith.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Isn't that the guy that said Griffin was just a mediocre contender :lol:
> 
> By the way Tommy it's Griffin not Griffith.


nope that's not what I said at all lol. I said it's not an all time win which it's not. stop trying to pin shit on me man. I don't hate either of them.

and that's a minor mistake, who cares


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> nope that's not what I said at all lol. I said it's not an all time win which it's not. stop trying to pin shit on me man. I don't hate either of them.
> 
> and that's a minor mistake, who cares


You tried to rate Lopez over Jones lol


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> You tried to rate Lopez over Jones lol


so what, that's my fucking opinion. it doesn't make me a hater. If you factor in the "eye test" super high then Lopez should rate highly on your list too. He was Juan Manuel Marquez before Marquez existed.


----------



## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Sittin Sonny said:


> I pointed out the same thing earlier, but apparently it was just something called "generation bias." :lol:
> 
> I maintain that Mayweather needed the Pacquiao fight (or something of equal worth) to have a claim to the top 20. As it stands now, he has a lot of very good, solid wins, but no single spectacular win on par with the likes of Duran over Leonard, Ali over Liston and Foreman, Whitaker over Chavez(unofficially), Jones over Toney, etc. IMO, the only fighter he beat that was still great _at the time_ was Marquez, and he was jumping straight up two weight classes (and after fighting at 130 only a year earlier) for an intended catchweight fight that he was subsequently screwed out of.


Solid and fair analysis mate :good Mayweather is an excellent fighter, none of today's good fighters can touch him. A past prime Cotto gave him a good fight so I wish we could have seen a prime Cotto have a go (this is not hating on Mayweather) but whatever. However, he lacks that ATG win that 09 Pac would have given him, like you say, all the greats have other ATG names on their slate, does Floyd? (Depending on if you count Oscar and you could give him Chico i guess) He is possibly the best SFW ever, but hes a natural LW/WW in same day weigh ins, so its only fair to rank him alongside Duran/Leonard/Hearns, all of whom would have likely stopped him. Now this is not a knock on Floyd, those 3 were _exceptional_ fighters, Duran and Hearns with big stylistic/physical advantages and Leonard just being that bit better. Floyd has coasted a lot of good wins, has a few standout wins, but doesnt have any wins that will go down in lore unfortunately. He didnt get many chances (Pac, prime Cotto, maybe JMM under better circumstances) so this is unfair on him having to fight in this era, but we cant give him credit for stuff he didnt do when other generations had to go out there and beat other ATGs. Now if he beats GGG (at 154 or 160) then he might sway me a bit, as GGG has perfect fundamentals and hits like a truck, a real offensive force, but I'm sure others would discredit that win anyway.

It's not that I'm biased against Floyd, it's just we can't be biased against fighters from better eras that had their success in tougher eras :conf It's a shame but it is what it is


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> so what, that's my fucking opinion. it doesn't make me a hater. If you factor in the "eye test" super high then Lopez should rate highly on your list too. He was Juan Manuel Marquez before Marquez existed.


No I rate Roy high because he has wins over ATG and looks like one of the greatest fighters ever.

Lopez has wins over no one that even made it into the Hall of fame :lol: Wouldn't even move up to get Carbajal or Gonzales either.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> No I rate Roy high because he has wins over ATG and looks like one of the greatest fighters ever.
> 
> Lopez has wins over no one that even made it into the Hall of fame :lol: Wouldn't even move up to get Carbajal or Gonzales either.


I mean, you just said he "looks like" one of the greatest fighters so obviously the eye test factors in :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

Another difference between Lopez and Jones: Lopez never got knocked out by a fighter the caliber of Antonio Tarver. Blah blah he was past prime, but obviously losses have to factor in.

Jones did beat Toney and Hopkins which are two great wins, but I think Hopkins evolved into a better fighter from there.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> I mean, you just said he "looks like" one of the greatest fighters so obviously the eye test factors in :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl
> 
> Another difference between Lopez and Jones: Lopez never got knocked out by a fighter the caliber of Antonio Tarver. Blah blah he was past prime, but obviously losses have to factor in.
> 
> Jones did beat Toney and Hopkins which are two great wins, but I think Hopkins evolved into a better fighter from there.


The eye test factors in when you're doing it to ATGs atsch :rofl At least Roy moved up for the challenges and won a whole lot of them :deal

Lopez camped out and beat cabbies and nobodies. Shot Vorapin. atsch atsch atsch


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> At least Roy moved up for the challenges and won a whole lot of them :deal
> 
> Lopez camped out and beat cabbies and nobodies. Shot Vorapin. atsch atsch atsch


Yeah true, you got to give Roy credit for moving up against a very limited heavyweight like John Ruiz, and then escaping before any elite heavyweights can knock him the fuck out :yep

Lopez beat who he could in his ideal division. honestly who knows what he could've looked like had he moved up in weight and fought Carbajal


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> *Yeah true, you got to give Roy credit for moving up against a very limited heavyweight like John Ruiz, and then escaping before any elite heavyweights can knock him the fuck out :yep*
> 
> Lopez beat who he could in his ideal division. honestly who knows what he could've looked like had he moved up in weight and fought Carbajal


Yeah, you're not biased against Jones at all. Jones making a past it McCallum look foolish is better than anything Lopez did even :lol:


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Yeah, you're not biased against Jones at all. Jones making a past it McCallum look foolish is better than anything Lopez did even :lol:


What I said was true. He never fought another heavyweight AGAIN. There's a reason for that. He knew the dangers of fighting real heavyweights.

Like I already explained I loved watching Jones dismantle Vinnie Paz and DEMOLISH Griffin in the rematch. Honestly in some of his fights Jones looked like Muhammad Ali with his fucking clowning. Lowkey the best fighter P4P of his time.

Clowning a shot McCallum isn't impressive tho. Jones certainly has better showings than that.


----------



## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

turbotime said:


> You tried to rate Lopez over Jones lol


ROFL! yeah, that was an interesting comment to say the least.


----------



## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> gotta love when you're in a real debate and mothafuckas scream HATER when all else fails :rofl


In my short time here, I've noticed you have to royally kiss FMJr's ass just to be popular with a certain 'clique'. Otherwise you're a hater, and possibly racist. There really isn't a lot of deep thought that comes form that group either. Just shoot from the hip, wait for someone with FMJr avatar to join the ranks, tell you how great you are. :shitstir


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> ROFL! yeah, that was an interesting comment to say the least.


Hell Sanchez is ahead of Lopez in half the amount of Lopez' fights even. "Lopez was Marquez before Marquez was Marquez"

Yeah because there haven't been classic Mexican boxer punchers before :lol:


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> "Lopez was Marquez before Marquez was Marquez"
> 
> Yeah because there haven't been classic Mexican boxer punchers before :lol:


that's not the point. Notice how they both are trained by Nacho Bernstein? they clearly have a very similar style.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> that's not the point. Notice how they both are trained by Nacho Bernstein? they clearly have a very similar style.


Ok? Patterson was Tyson before Tyson was Tyson. :conf Means nothing to me really.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Ok? Patterson was Tyson before Tyson was Tyson. :conf Means nothing to me really.


and Jose Torres was Patterson before Patterson was Patterson. There are prototypes for nearly every ATG including Floyd.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> and Jose Torres was Patterson before Patterson was Patterson. There are prototypes for nearly every ATG including Floyd.


Again, it means next to nothing though.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Again, it means next to nothing though.


in your twisted view maybe


----------



## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> Clowning a shot McCallum isn't impressive tho. Jones certainly has better showings than that.


Well put it a better way, no one beat on a old McCallum like Jones utterly did.

McCallum had only loss twice in 4 years, and that was to Toney and Tiozzo, which in both cases he showed a good account of himself. You only have to watch his 3rd fight with Toney to see that he was not shot to pieces.

Is that fair to say, he did better then the other elite guys? He retired on a last fight against Toney, as people thought McCallum arguably won the either one the fights they fought when he was old. He didn't lose to FRIDAY night fights level competition.. he loss to 3 elite guys and was competitive as hell in two of those fights... no shame in that, he was still good to beat most of the guys around who were not the kings of the division at the time.


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> in your twisted view maybe


How can you say he was Marquez before Marquez was Marquez when Marquez actually fought guys that could give him a go and make him become the ATG he is, and higher than Lopez as well.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

turbotime said:


> How can you say he was Marquez before Marquez was Marquez when Marquez actually fought guys that could give him a go and make him become the ATG he is, and higher than Lopez as well.


I'm obviously talking stylistically you idiot


----------



## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

tommygun711 said:


> I'm obviously talking stylistically you idiot


damn son, why he got to be an idiot though? Y U mad? It's just boxing, settle down. :lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> I'm obviously talking stylistically you idiot


Lopez was actually more of a stalking boxer-puncher and Marquez looked to be more of a counter puncher. Who gives a fuck if they had the same trainer. :lol:


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Snakefist said:


> Well put it a better way, no one beat on a old McCallum like Jones utterly did.
> 
> McCallum had only loss twice in 4 years, and that was to Toney and Tiozzo, which in both cases he showed a good account of himself. You only have to watch his 3rd fight with Toney to see that he was not shot to pieces.
> 
> Is that fair to say, he did better then the other elite guys? He retired on a last fight against Toney, as people thought McCallum arguably won the either one the fights they fought when he was old. He didn't lose to FRIDAY night fights level competition.. he loss to 3 elite guys and was competitive as hell in two of those fights... no shame in that, he was still good to beat most of the guys around who were not the kings of the division at the time.


He also said Corrales was washed up when Floyd fought him. Don't take him too seriously.


----------



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

if you can't see similarities in lopez and marquez, then i give up


----------



## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> if you can't see similarities in lopez and marquez, then i give up


They are similar but being like Marquez doesn't make one Marquez. Lopez would do better against a style that Marquez doesn't (John and Mayweather types) because he will stalk and initiate more.


----------



## Snakefist (Oct 22, 2012)

turbotime said:


> He also said Corrales was washed up when Floyd fought him. Don't take him too seriously.


lol his best work was after Mayweather.


----------

