# So why doesn't Andre Ward comeback against Sergey Kovalev?



## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

There's no need for Ward to drag his heals in SMW. Move up to LHW. 

Ward's excuse before the fight was that Kovalev is an unknown, he wouldn't get any credit for beating him: 

â€œI donâ€™t see where there are the money fights at 175â€ Ward told The Fight Network. â€œTheyâ€™re not there.... Adonis is on another network, so you have one guy, Kovalev,â€ Ward added. â€œItâ€™s not a PPV fight, and then if I fight him and beat him, then what?â€

IMO, this is a winnable fight for either guy, and now that Kovalev has racked up two big wins against Bhop and Pascal, there's no excuse for Ward to not fight him. 

I like Ward as much as anyone but there's no need for him to wait for a magical fight at 168 to appear.


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## Michael (Jun 8, 2012)

Yeah, 168 is barren for Ward, hes beaten all competition there already. Kovalev would be a good payday and a really big scalp.


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## ThatBoxingGuy2022 (Aug 28, 2014)

At least let him have a tune up, hes had a long lay off then fighting the #1 in the division would be suicide


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## ImElvis666 (Jul 20, 2012)

Give him one warm up and he'd make a show of this guy imo


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## Mexi-Box (Jun 4, 2013)

I'm not sure what he's expecting staying at 168 lbs. 

The talent pool is getting shallow as well.


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## Mushin (Dec 12, 2013)

Ward is waiting for that possible Chavez payday, even though Chavez's manager has made it clear they're not interested.


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## KOTF (Jun 3, 2013)

Technically, since Dawson fought Ward at under 175 lbs., Ward would be the actual RING LHW champion


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

KOTF said:


> Technically, since Dawson fought Ward at under 175 lbs., Ward would be the actual RING LHW champion


Technically, since their fight was contracted at 168, he's not.


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## Kid Generic Alias (Oct 29, 2013)

Why are we talking about this guy as if he's relevant? Fuck the entitled, god-bothering prick.


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

Kid Generic Alias said:


> Why are we talking about this guy as if he's relevant? Fuck the entitled, god-bothering prick.


:rofl It's A funny 'cause it's true.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

I wish he would. I think Ward would stop Kovalev. It's just that Ward appears to have a sense of entitlement so large that it's sabotaging his own career.


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## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> I wish he would. I think Ward would stop Kovalev. It's just that Ward appears to have a sense of entitlement so large that it's sabotaging his own career.


You do realize he wouldn't be permitted to bring a gun inside the ring with him correct?


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## BunnyGibbons (Jun 7, 2012)

Vysotsky said:


> You do realize he wouldn't be permitted to bring a gun inside the ring with him correct?


He would in Oakland.


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## ApatheticLeader (May 17, 2013)

This obsession that boxing fans have with fighters moving around in weight to chase fights is fucking stupid. At what point did being comfortable at your weight class and staying there become wrong?


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

Step up a division after a long lay off and against the man in that division. Not a tough ask at all....


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

ApatheticLeader said:


> This obsession that boxing fans have with fighters moving around in weight to chase fights is fucking stupid. At what point did being comfortable at your weight class and staying there become wrong?


When 16-18 weight divisions came into play, not to mention "catch weights"


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## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

ApatheticLeader said:


> This obsession that boxing fans have with fighters moving around in weight to chase fights is fucking stupid. At what point did being comfortable at your weight class and staying there become wrong?


Some delusional fans actually consider it detrimental that a dominant champion in his ideal weight class doesn't go up in weight to another division....like it's a requirement for greatness. Great fighters like Monzon and Hagler wisely stayed put in their ideal class and dominated their division instead of indulging in division hopping....and have been criticized for it. Kovalev, I feel, it just as wise to stay and clean out his ideal division.


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## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

thehook13 said:


> When 16-18 weight divisions came into play, not to mention "catch weights"


Yes, it's ridiculous, isn't it? Too many weight classes, too many titles,...."Interim Champions", "Regular Champions"....they're contributing to the Tower of Babel that is modern day boxing.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Felix said:


> Technically, since their fight was contracted at 168, he's not.


Technically the only stipulation is that it's under 175


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## Oli (Jun 6, 2013)

Kid Generic Alias said:


> Why are we talking about this guy as if he's relevant? Fuck the entitled, god-bothering prick.


:deal And the most boring and unwatchable fighter of the last 60 years. Even if he was relevent (which he isn't) who the fuck would actually pay to watch the cunt? He is possibly also the most deluded man in America.


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## Wordup (May 16, 2013)

BunnyGibbons said:


> He would in Oakland.


:lol:


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Technically the only stipulation is that it's under 175


Fucking stupid though ain't it if they were fighting for Ward's WBA belt? ALL title fights should conform to the restrictions of their weight class, instead of these contract stipulations.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

Felix said:


> Fucking stupid though ain't it if they were fighting for Ward's WBA belt? ALL title fights should conform to the restrictions of their weight class, instead of these contract stipulations.


I'd agree it would be stupid but it would have complied with all the restrictions of that weight class. Considering he also won the true Linear title by beating Rodriguez (above 168 as well) he's actually got a fair shout at 175 champ weirdly


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## TSOL (Dec 15, 2013)

its both sad and funny that nobody misses ward


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

JamieC said:


> I'd agree it would be stupid but it would have complied with all the restrictions of that weight class. Considering he also won the true Linear title by beating Rodriguez (above 168 as well) he's actually got a fair shout at 175 champ weirdly


This fucking sport sometimes.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

I think the last time he mentioned that fight he said something like "But what if I beat him, then what?"

:lol:

Found it
http://www.boxingscene.com/andre-ward-if-i-beat-sergey-kovalev-then-what--78770

From Mayweather: "But what if he beats me"
to
Ward: "But what if I beat him"


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Vysotsky said:


> You do realize he wouldn't be permitted to bring a gun inside the ring with him correct?





BunnyGibbons said:


> He would in Oakland.


:rofl


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

dyna said:


> I think the last time he mentioned that fight he said something like "But what if I beat him, then what?"
> 
> :lol:
> 
> ...


Worst fucking excuse I've ever heard. On the one hand we have GGG fighting whoever and staying busy, which is good because he's only gonna build his profile doing that. I'm sure he's not getting amazing money for opponents like Rubio etc, but he's getting paid, and it'll still be better money than Ward's getting not fighting. 4 Ã- $1m > 0 Ã- $whatever Ward asks for


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

ApatheticLeader said:


> This obsession that boxing fans have with fighters moving around in weight to chase fights is fucking stupid. At what point did being comfortable at your weight class and staying there become wrong?


When there are no challenges left for Ward at 168.

Seriously, he's beaten every relevant fighter in that division. Why linger around in a division when there are no good fights for ya? stevenson and kovalev are better fights for him.



thehook13 said:


> Step up a division after a long lay off and against the man in that division. Not a tough ask at all....


Fine, have a tuneup first, and then fight Kovalev. I think Ward should realize that this is now a very profitable fight.


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## thehook13 (May 16, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Fine, have a tuneup first, and then fight Kovalev. I think Ward should realize that this is now a very profitable fight.


Agreed. Ward has to be one of the more frustrating self orientated prima donna champs in recent history.

He won't fight Kovalev.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

I don't think anybody can come up with a good argument that Ward shouldn't move up to LHW and fight Kovalev now.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

Interview with Virgil Hunter from December 2014 on Ward vs. Kovalev. Hunter makes a valid point about the perceived contradiction of Ward's willingness to fight Golovkin but not Kovalev.

"I would fail [Ward] if I move him up into a division that he's not ready to go up in. That's why, with Golovkin, I understand where they're coming from but the only thing that happens is that they contradict themselves by saying they'll fight Chavez or Froch. Now, if Andre said "I'll fight Pascal or I'll fight Stevenson but not Sergey Kovalev" then he's doing the same thing but he hasn't said that. The fact is that he's a Super middleweight."






Clearly Ward vs. Kovalev won't happen any time soon. Both have said that they won't move from their divisions so unless a fight can be agreed at 172 or something then this makes for an interesting, but ultimately futile, discussion.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Ward should fight talented prospect Jesse Hart. Hart has the speed, power, and offensive skills to give Ward serious trouble. He's a little sloppy on defense, so it would be an interesting fight.

Then Ward needs to fight DeGale. If he beats him convincingly, then maybe I'll be a Ward believer. 

THEN, he should move up & face a top-ten LHW. Pascal, maybe.

---------------

Right now, I'm not on the SOG hype train. Never was. His win over Froch was seriously impressive, but other than that, I just don't see anything "TBE" worthy. Some good wins, sure, but no long-term world domination, like with Floyd.

The boy has a LOT to prove.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Interview with Virgil Hunter from December 2014 on Ward vs. Kovalev. Hunter makes a valid point about the perceived contradiction of Ward's willingness to fight Golovkin but not Kovalev.
> 
> "I would fail [Ward] if I move him up into a division that he's not ready to go up in. That's why, with Golovkin, I understand where they're coming from but the only thing that happens is that they contradict themselves by saying they'll fight Chavez or Froch. Now, if Andre said "I'll fight Pascal or I'll fight Stevenson but not Sergey Kovalev" then he's doing the same thing but he hasn't said that. The fact is that he's a Super middleweight."
> 
> ...


Black fighters are expected to go above and beyond the call of duty.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Degale and Dirrell are probably going to fight for the IBF. That would be a good fight for Ward, the winner of that. The 168lb division is far from dead. Degale, Dirrell bros, Groves ect



The Light Heavyweight division outside of Kovalev and Berbetiev is no more deep. 


But, I would like to see that fight soon. Ward schools him.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Black fighters are expected to go above and beyond the call of duty.


Come on now. This has nothing to do with wards skin color.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Come on now. This has nothing to do with wards skin color.


Why is Ward supposed to move up but not Golovkin, Froch ect?


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Why is Ward supposed to move up but not Golovkin, Froch ect?


Froch i thought id gonna retire soon but yeah him vs kovalev is a good fight

GGG should move up eventually also but i think theres quite a few fights at MW for GGG b4 he moves up.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> When there are no challenges left for Ward at 168.
> 
> Seriously, he's beaten every relevant fighter in that division. Why linger around in a division when there are no good fights for ya? stevenson and kovalev are better fights for him.
> 
> Fine, have a tuneup first, and then fight Kovalev. I think Ward should realize that this is now a very profitable fight.


Both Dirrell brothers, DeGale and when GGG moves up, will all be challenges


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Both Dirrell brothers, DeGale and when GGG moves up, will all be challenges


-Degale is a good fight. Thats one.
-I thought ward and direll agreed since theyre boys they wont fight?
-i dont think ggg will move up for a while, at least not until he gets his hands on the lineal title


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> -Degale is a good fight. Thats one.
> -I thought ward and direll agreed since theyre boys they wont fight?
> -i dont think ggg will move up for a while, at least not until he gets his hands on the lineal title


Ward never had a problem with fighting Dirrell, it was more Andre. Andre in more recent years though has been lobbying for the fight though


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> Ward never had a problem with fighting Dirrell, it was more Andre. Andre in more recent years though has been lobbying for the fight though


Andre is about to be outslicked by DeGale so forget him :deal


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Black fighters are expected to go above and beyond the call of duty.


You should involve yourself more in conversation. Lower your guard a bit.


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Both Dirrell brothers, DeGale and when GGG moves up, will all be challenges


But it's the time he spends waiting around that's wasteful.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

dyna said:


> I think the last time he mentioned that fight he said something like "But what if I beat him, then what?"
> 
> :lol:
> 
> ...


"What if I beat him?" >>>>> "What if I lose?"


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## TSOL (Dec 15, 2013)

Ward would rather wait for the possibility of a 160lb title holder (who's still trying to unify his division) moving up instead of just doing the top 168 vs. the top 175er


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

JamieC said:


> Andre is about to be outslicked by DeGale so forget him :deal


I'm interested to see that fight pan out



Felix said:


> But it's the time he spends waiting around that's wasteful.


yeah I've been very annoyed with Ward not fighting. Very annoyed. That's my issue with him and him overvaluing how much he's worth and causing him good opportunities like Froch II.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> I'm interested to see that fight pan out
> 
> yeah I've been very annoyed with Ward not fighting. Very annoyed. That's my issue with him and him overvaluing how much he's worth and causing him good opportunities like Froch II.


I was hoping it was going to land on the April 25th London bill with Lee $elby schooling Gradovich (you know hes my boy) as i think this is a really interesting fight, DeGale Ward would be great two Gold medallists going at it. I met DeGale a few years ago and he was a really nice guy, he's really good at drawing leads and punishing back with combinations but Dirrell is going to be super negative so I'm interested to see if DeGale can press the fight, he struggled against Groves doing this but that fight could have gone either way and was some time ago


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

JamieC said:


> I was hoping it was going to land on the April 25th London bill with Lee $elby schooling Gradovich (you know hes my boy) as i think this is a really interesting fight, DeGale Ward would be great two Gold medallists going at it. I met DeGale a few years ago and he was a really nice guy, he's really good at drawing leads and punishing back with combinations but Dirrell is going to be super negative so I'm interested to see if DeGale can press the fight, he struggled against Groves doing this but that fight could have gone either way and was some time ago


Degales in trouble.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Degales in trouble.


I think he can pull it off, can't let it be too close though. The winner of this is a real fight for Ward, it's a shame really because so is the loser but its a long way back for them, well it's not but there won't be another world title fight for them for a while, unless Groves beats Anthony in which case Groves-DeGale II will happen


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I'm interested to see that fight pan out
> 
> yeah I've been very annoyed with Ward not fighting. Very annoyed. That's my issue with him and him overvaluing how much he's worth and causing him good opportunities like Froch II.


He should've swallowed his pride and taken enough fights to get him out of his Goossen contract. He could've fought a couple of bums and taken a modest payday but he'd have kept busy and been out of his contract sooner. Instead it's been what...it's sixteen fucking months tomorrow, exactly. Sixteen months and if he announces a tune-up fight _tomorrow_ he'll still take 3-4 months to get in the ring. The guy's been a tool.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

JamieC said:


> I think he can pull it off, can't let it be too close though. The winner of this is a real fight for Ward, it's a shame really because so is the loser but its a long way back for them, well it's not but there won't be another world title fight for them for a while, unless Groves beats Anthony in which case Groves-DeGale II will happen


2-3 years ago I had Dirrell easy, not so sure anymore, Degale's improved alot. Is this Degales first fight in America? Could be a factor


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> 2-3 years ago I had Dirrell easy, not so sure anymore, Degale's improved alot. Is this Degales first fight in America? Could be a factor


Ye it is and that's true, at least Brook had a fight over there before his shot on a big bill. I mean DeGale is an experienced amateur and boxed and won all over the world so hopefully he doesn't let this get to him and he's looked much better since he let his knee injury heal. Damn i wish Hearn had won purse bids for this fight


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Just finished watching the fight, and im amazed how a stiff like Golovkin gets so much hype for beating bums and Kovalev actually beats top level champions and is unknown still

However, Pascal landed 40% of his power shots, Kovalev is there to be hit. He's silky smooth however and rolls punches well so they arent landing with the impact that Pascal was throwing them with.

Still thinks Ward schools him however but otherwise I'd put him number 2 behind Ward


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## p.townend (May 17, 2013)

Ward needs a couple of fights first,he has been out too long now to go straight in at the top in my opinion. I have a feeling Ward is going to find getting back to where he was harder than he thinks. He hasn`t a huge fan base waiting for his return either,he was starting to build up some support but it`s ages ago now. Could it be a fight worth bothering with for Kovalev?


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## nvs (May 16, 2013)

Oli said:


> :deal And the most boring and unwatchable fighter of the last 60 years. Even if he was relevent (which he isn't) who the fuck would actually pay to watch the cunt? He is possibly also the most deluded man in America.


True, Ward is too irrelevant atm.


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## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

Apparently Mayorga is claiming he's Ward's next opponent lol i don't actually believe it though. Draining Tommy O is bad enough.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Vysotsky said:


> Apparently Mayorga is claiming he's Ward's next opponent lol i don't actually believe it though. Draining Tommy O is bad enough.


No fucking way.


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## Someguy101 (Jun 4, 2013)

Ward thinks he is Mayweather and wants Mayweather money. If Ward is as good as he thinks he is then Kovalev is a BIG BIG payday & *if* Ward beats him (which I cannot see at all) then he will have been the best at 168 & 175 in which case he will have earned the ability to request Mayweather money.

But I don't think Ward will take the fight which is sad because if he wanted it this is the fight to get that recognition & after this there is no other.


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

:lol:



Vysotsky said:


> You do realize he wouldn't be permitted to bring a gun inside the ring with him correct?


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## The Sweet Science (Jun 5, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> I wish he would. I think Ward would stop Kovalev. It's just that Ward appears to have a sense of entitlement so large that it's sabotaging his own career.


Only a total fucking moron would think that Ward would stop Kovalev. Winning a decision, maybe. But stopping him? Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Someguy101 said:


> Ward thinks he is Mayweather and wants Mayweather money. If Ward is as good as he thinks he is then Kovalev is a BIG BIG payday & *if* Ward beats him (which I cannot see at all) then he will have been the best at 168 & 175 in which case he will have earned the ability to request Mayweather money.
> 
> But I don't think Ward will take the fight which is sad because if he wanted it this is the fight to get that recognition & after this there is no other.


Ward is great, and if Pascal was landing 40% of his power shots on Kovalev, he's a sitting duck for Ward

However being good doesnt translate into money. Mayweather at 130 was better than he is now and nobody cared to see him fight. 168 and 175 just arent premier division, and without a high KO percentage and a marketable persona Ward will always be the Sweet Pea of his generation. An amazing talent that only hard core fans remember.


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## techks (Jun 4, 2013)

Felix said:


> He should've swallowed his pride and taken enough fights to get him out of his Goossen contract. He could've fought a couple of bums and taken a modest payday but he'd have kept busy and been out of his contract sooner. Instead it's been what...it's sixteen fucking months tomorrow, exactly. Sixteen months and if he announces a tune-up fight _tomorrow_ he'll still take 3-4 months to get in the ring. The guy's been a tool.


This exactly. He had his chance to be active but 2-3 yrs is a damn long time in boxing. Ward is a great talent but he cant keep being inactive I wish him the best but have no hope for him to be what he could've unless he proves me wrong which I doubt.


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## paloalto00 (Jun 7, 2013)

Give Ward a tune up and I think he could take him. He seems to always get caught with the looping left hooks and that seems to be Ward's best punch


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## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

Fuck Ward already. Im tired of hearing about his bullshit. Hes inactive and doesnt do shit.


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## Kurushi (Jun 11, 2013)

The Sweet Science said:


> Only a total fucking moron would think that Ward would stop Kovalev. Winning a decision, maybe. But stopping him? Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit.


Interesting argument


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> Interview with Virgil Hunter from December 2014 on Ward vs. Kovalev. Hunter makes a valid point about the perceived contradiction of Ward's willingness to fight Golovkin but not Kovalev.
> 
> "I would fail [Ward] if I move him up into a division that he's not ready to go up in. That's why, with Golovkin, I understand where they're coming from but the only thing that happens is that they contradict themselves by saying they'll fight Chavez or Froch. Now, if Andre said "I'll fight Pascal or I'll fight Stevenson but not Sergey Kovalev" then he's doing the same thing but he hasn't said that. The fact is that he's a Super middleweight."
> 
> ...


:clap:

Damn, great explanation. You call out fighters in the weight class, you prove it and fight in that weight class. Ward's being pushed to move up when he's shown no signs of wanting to move up or calling out fighters, for some reason... Glad Hunter was able to explain it in a way everyone should understand. Although I believe this point was made several times on here but ignored for whatever reason.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Unless Ward plans to fight either of the Dirrell brothers (Which won't happen ever), there's really no point at all for him to continue at 168. He should come back at 175, take his tune up, and go for the gold within a year.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> :clap:
> 
> Damn, great explanation. You call out fighters in the weight class, you prove it and fight in that weight class. Ward's being pushed to move up when he's shown no signs of wanting to move up or calling out fighters, for some reason... Glad Hunter was able to explain it in a way everyone should understand. Although I believe this point was made several times on here but ignored for whatever reason.


Except Ward has nothing left at 168, unlike GGG, who has a few decent fights there. Ward has defeated those who are his top contenders, and we both know he won't face either Dirrell brother for whatever reason they want to use.

The GGG and Ward comparisons, while similar in one way, are way different in others.

Why do you think Ward wants to stay at 168? Is there anyone you think he'll face at 168 that makes a worthwhile fight for someone of his talents?


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Mal said:


> Except Ward has nothing left at 168, unlike GGG, who has a few decent fights there. Ward has defeated those who are his top contenders, and we both know he won't face either Dirrell brother for whatever reason they want to use.
> 
> The GGG and Ward comparisons, while similar in one way, are way different in others.
> 
> Why do you think Ward wants to stay at 168? Is there anyone you think he'll face at 168 that makes a worthwhile fight for someone of his talents?


Degale, Dirrell bros, Groves, that's 4 big fights

Now tell us besides Kovalev whos at light heavy?


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Degale, Dirrell bros, Groves, that's 4 big fights
> 
> Now tell us besides Kovalev whos at light heavy?


He's not going to fight either Dirrell brother. I hope Degale gets a shot. He's overdue.

At LtHW, there's also Stevenson, though Stevenson looks like he's just facing no-hopers to keep his belt.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Mal said:


> He's not going to fight either Dirrell brother. I hope Degale gets a shot. He's overdue.
> 
> At LtHW, there's also Stevenson, though Stevenson looks like he's just facing no-hopers to keep his belt.


So pretty much the same amount of opponents.


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## Hands of Iron (Jun 27, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> So pretty much the same amount of opponents.


Stevenson needs to fight Kovalev, not Ward. The winner of that is a much more attractive fight down the road both lucratively and resume/standing wise than either of them on their own right now.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> So pretty much the same amount of opponents.


And being another weight class world Champion.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

He's got to do SOMETHING soon. Kovalev is a logical next big step though.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Mal said:


> Except Ward has nothing left at 168, unlike GGG, who has a few decent fights there. Ward has defeated those who are his top contenders, and we both know he won't face either Dirrell brother for whatever reason they want to use.
> 
> The GGG and Ward comparisons, while similar in one way, are way different in others.
> 
> Why do you think Ward wants to stay at 168? Is there anyone you think he'll face at 168 that makes a worthwhile fight for someone of his talents?


Ward has the Froch rematch, Degale and possibly Groves. I've heard Dirrell is willing to fight him, so that's possible IMO. But regardless, if he's not ready to move up, why are people trying to push him there? He's not once said he's ready to move up or wants to fight someone there right now, as far as I know.

Way different, yes I agree. GGG's people say he can make 3 weight classes and says he wants certain fighters there, keyword certain. Ward nor his manager have said anything of the sort, but people feel he needs to while making excuses for GGG.

He wants to stay there because his body isn't ready for a higher weight class? Isn't that why most people stay in a weight class, they wait until their body tells them to move up? Yeah, he can face any of the people I named above.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> He's got to do SOMETHING soon. Kovalev is a logical next big step though.


I agree, once he says he's ready to move up or starts missing weight.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Ward has the Froch rematch, Degale and possibly Groves. I've heard Dirrell is willing to fight him, so that's possible IMO. But regardless, if he's not ready to move up, why are people trying to push him there? He's not once said he's ready to move up or wants to fight someone there right now, as far as I know.
> 
> Way different, yes I agree. GGG's people say he can make 3 weight classes and says he wants certain fighters there, keyword certain. Ward nor his manager have said anything of the sort, but people feel he needs to while making excuses for GGG.
> 
> He wants to stay there because his body isn't ready for a higher weight class? Isn't that why most people stay in a weight class, they wait until their body tells them to move up? Yeah, he can face any of the people I named above.


I don't know if at his age, it's a matter of his body telling him what to do. Ward is 31. He isn't going to grow more unless he takes the actions to make it happen IMO.

I don't have any problems if Ward stays at 168 his entire career. That is just going to hurt him in the long run IMO. He's done about all there is to do at 168. Yeah, he can keep defeating guy up and coming, who make themselves top contenders. But if I recall, Ward once said he'd finish his career at HW. So he can stay at 168, make defenses against whomever the new top contenders are, or he can move up and capture another world Championship, face some new blood.

Either way, he just needs to do something soon. Taking 1 tune up is fine. But anymore then that, it's a waste of his prime.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Mal said:


> I don't know if at his age, it's a matter of his body telling him what to do. Ward is 31. He isn't going to grow more unless he takes the actions to make it happen IMO.
> 
> I don't have any problems if Ward stays at 168 his entire career. That is just going to hurt him in the long run IMO. He's done about all there is to do at 168. Yeah, he can keep defeating guy up and coming, who make themselves top contenders. But if I recall, Ward once said he'd finish his career at HW. So he can stay at 168, make defenses against whomever the new top contenders are, or he can move up and capture another world Championship, face some new blood.
> 
> Either way, he just needs to do something soon. Taking 1 tune up is fine. But anymore then that, it's a waste of his prime.


Well he can definitely make a choice to put on weight and try to move up, but I don't understand why he'd do that if he's comfortable at the weight he's at.. I do get what you're saying though, he might not just grow into another division naturally at this age.

I don't think it will hurt him in the long run if he's fighting in a weight class he's comfortable at. I think moving to a weight division you're not comfortable at to please fans (most of which will never be pleased in the long run) could be far worse. He's beat a lot of the top names at 168, but there are a few more.. And it's where he's comfortable. Not all fighters have to jump up in weight classes to show how good they are, it's not in everyone to do that. Ward has stated he would like to finish at HW in the past, but now his team is saying his body isn't ready to move up.. So do we just pick and choose which one to go with based on what we want him to do, or do we take what he's showing us which is his body being comfortable at 168 with no signs of being too big at the weight?

I definitely agree with the last point, he needs to get in the ring as soon as possible.. And stay in the ring as often as possible. He's wasted years and who really knows how he'll look once he laces them back up.

I just don't like the idea that all fighters have to move up in weight to prove how good they are. I don't like the thought of Rigondeaux going up in weight classes he can't handle just because he's dominated everyone else his size.. I believe in taking on challenges, just don't think going outside of your comfortable weight is a requirement to show fans you're 'taking on a challenge'. Beat the best at the weight you can make, if you go above that kudos to you, but it's becoming far too often fans act like it's a requirement now IMO.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Well he can definitely make a choice to put on weight and try to move up, but I don't understand why he'd do that if he's comfortable at the weight he's at.. I do get what you're saying though, he might not just grow into another division naturally at this age.


Because, as stated, there's not much left to prove at 168. Like i said, yeah, he can stay there as long as he wants. There will ALWAYS be guys ranked #1 or 2 to defend against. Always. But he's in the prime of his career, and likely to move up anyway.



Divi253 said:


> *I don't think it will hurt him in the long run *if he's fighting in a weight class he's comfortable at. I think moving to a weight division you're not comfortable at to please fans (most of which will never be pleased in the long run) could be far worse. He's beat a lot of the top names at 168, but there are a few more.. And it's where he's comfortable. Not all fighters have to jump up in weight classes to show how good they are, it's not in everyone to do that. Ward has stated he would like to finish at HW in the past, but now his team is saying his body isn't ready to move up.. So do we just pick and choose which one to go with based on what we want him to do, or do we take what he's showing us which is his body being comfortable at 168 with no signs of being too big at the weight?


That will depend entirely on the type of competition he faces at 168, which names he faces. It's possible he can stay at 168 for his entire career, and just face whomever the top contender is. But I have my doubts that list will carry many great fighters. I can't see Felix Sturm's mgmt trying to face Ward. Or Abraham's mgmt for that matter. Sure, there's a couple names to look at, but that's about it. And i doubt either Dirrell bro wil face Ward, if Haymon has anything to say about it. (I believe both are Haymon fighters, no?)



Divi253 said:


> I definitely agree with the last point, he needs to get in the ring as soon as possible.. And stay in the ring as often as possible. He's wasted years and who really knows how he'll look once he laces them back up.
> 
> I just don't like the idea that all fighters have to move up in weight to prove how good they are. I don't like the thought of Rigondeaux going up in weight classes he can't handle just because he's dominated everyone else his size.. I believe in taking on challenges, just don't think going outside of your comfortable weight is a requirement to show fans you're 'taking on a challenge'. Beat the best at the weight you can make, if you go above that kudos to you, but it's becoming far too often fans act like it's a requirement now IMO.


fighters don't have to move up to prove how good they are. They just need the right competition to do so. And I don't see too much of it at 168.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Mal said:


> Because, as stated, there's not much left to prove at 168. Like i said, yeah, he can stay there as long as he wants. There will ALWAYS be guys ranked #1 or 2 to defend against. Always. But he's in the prime of his career, and likely to move up anyway.


Not much, but there are a few opponents. Don't see a problem with him wanting to stay at 168 to clean house completely, or as much as he can. I think he'll move up too, just don't think he needs to rush and do it, and his trainer feels the same way. Also think as he gets older he may naturally go up in weight, or want to, to compensate for slower reflexes.



Mal said:


> That will depend entirely on the type of competition he faces at 168, which names he faces. It's possible he can stay at 168 for his entire career, and just face whomever the top contender is. But I have my doubts that list will carry many great fighters. I can't see Felix Sturm's mgmt trying to face Ward. Or Abraham's mgmt for that matter. Sure, there's a couple names to look at, but that's about it. And i doubt either Dirrell bro wil face Ward, if Haymon has anything to say about it. (I believe both are Haymon fighters, no?)


Also depends on what would happen at 175 if he's not ready for it. Could go up there lose and not be the same after. I'd have to think Virgil doesn't want him in there with them at 175 for a reason..



Mal said:


> fighters don't have to move up to prove how good they are. They just need the right competition to do so. And I don't see too much of it at 168.


If the right competition isn't in a weight class you belong in you fight who's available IMO..


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## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Ward has the Froch rematch, Degale and possibly Groves. I've heard Dirrell is willing to fight him, so that's possible IMO. But regardless, if he's not ready to move up, why are people trying to push him there? He's not once said he's ready to move up or wants to fight someone there right now, as far as I know.
> 
> Way different, yes I agree. *GGG's people say he can make 3 weight classes and says he wants certain fighters there, keyword certain. Ward nor his manager have said anything of the sort, but people feel he needs to while making excuses for GGG.*
> 
> He wants to stay there because his body isn't ready for a higher weight class? Isn't that why most people stay in a weight class, they wait until their body tells them to move up? Yeah, he can face any of the people I named above.





Divi253 said:


> :clap:
> Damn, great explanation. You call out fighters in the weight class, you prove it and fight in that weight class. Ward's being pushed to move up when he's shown no signs of wanting to move up or calling out fighters, for some reason... Glad Hunter was able to explain it in a way everyone should understand. Although I believe this point was made several times on here but ignored for whatever reason.


Right except that everything Hunter said is false, see below. Ward said the exact same thing about _certain _fighters he also talked about moving up to Heavyweight ffs but once Kovalev and Stevenson arrived on the scene he changed his tune. After knocking Dawson out Stevenson who had just moved up even said he would fight Ward at 168...

http://www.badlefthook.com/2012/9/2...pavlik-light-heavyweight-division-boxing-news

Yes, he considered going up long ago... On Sep 22, 2012 Ward said: "I don't know if it's going to be my next fight [*moving up to 175*], but I'm just excited about that next challenge and *I think my body is going to be happy about having that extra weight on me as well*. I think I'm going to be a lot stronger."

2012
http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/7916213/chad-dawson-andre-ward-bout-works

After Ward (25-0, 13 KOs), 28, defeated Froch, he spoke about his willingness to move up to fight a top light heavyweight if the opportunity presented itself.

"*I am ready to fight the best 168- and 175-pounders that are out there," *Ward told ESPN.com in a recent interview.* "At this point, a big fight at 175 is interesting to me. I don't want to go up just to go up. But for the right fight, for a big fight, I would go up. I'm willing to fight anyone at '68 or '75*."


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Vysotsky said:


> See below, Ward said the exact same thing about _certain _fighters he also talked about moving up to Heavyweight ffs but once Kovalev and Stevenson arrived on the scene he changed his tune.
> 
> http://www.badlefthook.com/2012/9/2...pavlik-light-heavyweight-division-boxing-news
> 
> ...


The first point, he could have and still have plans to move to HW. Doesn't mean he needs to anytime soon. Also, I haven't heard Ward change his tune. I've heard Hunter say his body isn't ready for 175 and he's not going to have him fight there until he is.

Second one, good find. I stand corrected, he has said he'd like to fight at 175. So it must be Hunter telling him to fight where his body is comfortable, and not go up before he's ready to chase big fights.

Also... That's 2 fighters at 175.. Who does he face after?


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## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> The first point, he could have and still have plans to move to HW. Doesn't mean he needs to anytime soon. Also, I haven't heard Ward change his tune. I've heard Hunter say his body isn't ready for 175 and he's not going to have him fight there until he is.
> 
> Second one, good find. I stand corrected, he has said he'd like to fight at 175. So it *must be Hunter telling him to fight where his body is comfortable*, and not go up before he's ready to chase big fights.


Ward himself said the extra weight would benefit him, i think Andre knows his own body better than Hunter. Golovkin is still willing to fight guys at 168, Froch for example, while Ward pulled a 180 and is pretending he never said this stuff. If you're going to criticize anyone save it for ol' Andre.


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## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Also... That's 2 fighters at 175.. Who does he face after?


lol Using Ward's own excuse are you? He said he would move up for an interesting fight, well Kovalev or Stevenson would be that, same for Golovkin with Froch, Chavez, Ward only Golovkin hasn't developed amnesia. Ward wouldn't have to stay at 175 if he doesn't want to but beating the lineal or unified LHW Champion is better than any fight he can get at 168 legacy wise, money wise only a Froch bout would top it.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Vysotsky said:


> Ward himself said the extra weight would benefit him, i think Andre knows his own body better than Hunter. Golovkin is still willing to fight guys at 168, Froch for example, while Ward pulled a 180 and is pretending he never said this stuff. If you're going to criticize anyone save it for ol' Andre.


I believe Ward trusts and listens to Hunter. GGG is not willing to face anyone above 160. Hunter is not willing to put Ward in with anyone above 168. One camp is still saying they'll face any big name in other weight classes. Another camp is saying he's not putting his fighter in at 175 until his body is ready.

Ward is guilty of saying he'd face big names at 175 and now stating he's not going to move up until he's ready.. That's not the same as what the other camp is doing. I criticize both for the different things they've done, now that you've pointed out the ESPN article.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Vysotsky said:


> lol Using Ward's own excuse are you? He said he would move up for an interesting fight, well Kovalev or Stevenson would be that, same for Golovkin with Froch, Chavez, Ward only Golovkin hasn't developed amnesia. Ward wouldn't have to stay at 175 if he doesn't want to but beating the lineal or unified LHW Champion is better than any fight he can get at 168 legacy wise, money wise only a Froch bout would top it.


No, I'm asking a question.. But funny Ward said it as well, seeing as it has truth to it. Kovalev and Stevenson both would be good fights, like I said.. Who else?

It's not amnesia, it's his trainer saying his body isn't ready for 175. It's him now saying he's not moving up until he's truly a 175 fighter, as there's 2 fighters there, and he obviously doesn't fancy moving up and down in weight. He'll move to 175, but he and Virgil obviously don't believe he's ready yet.

And I don't believe it's because he or his camp are afraid (to lose to either) of them because they're better.. I just believe they're naturally 175 fighters who have a big punch and they don't want him to face that prematurely. I see nothing wrong with it seeing as they're admitting they're not ready.. Not like they're calling out certain fighters..


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## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> I believe Ward trusts and listens to Hunter. GGG is not willing to face anyone above 160. Hunter is not willing to put Ward in with anyone above 168. One camp is still saying they'll face any big name in other weight classes. Another camp is saying he's not putting his fighter in at 175 until his body is ready.
> 
> Ward is guilty of saying he'd face big names at 175 and now stating he's not going to move up until he's ready.. That's not the same as what the other camp is doing. I criticize both for the different things they've done, now that you've pointed out the ESPN article.


Ward said his body was ready 3 years ago and any rational person would hold the opinion that he knows his own body better than Hunter. If his reversal is on account of Hunter's advise it doesn't have to do with him knowing Andre's body better, it's him giving Ward career advice because he thinks 175 and/or the opponents there are too much risk.

If you weren't aware he said that it's cool but don't try to continue arguing on behalf of his contradictions and backpeddling.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Vysotsky said:


> Ward said his body was ready 3 years ago and any rational person would hold the opinion that he knows his own body better than Hunter. If his reversal is on account of Hunter's advise it doesn't have to do with him knowing Andre's body better, it's him giving Ward career advice because he thinks 175 and/or the opponents there are too much risk.
> 
> If you weren't aware he said that it's cool but don't try to continue arguing on behalf of his contradictions and backpeddling.


Could be Hunter believing those 2 opponents are too much for Ward, but I don't see anything to suggest it. Ward said he thinks his body will be happy about the extra weight, which if you believe Hunter saying they don't drain to make weight, means he was putting on extra just to get to 175... Which would go with him saying he was willing to go up there for a really big fight, because it isn't natural for him.. Which would go with Hunter saying he's not a 175 fighter and he's not putting him in at 175 until his body tells him it's time.

I already said I wasn't aware.. That doesn't mean he's suddenly changed his mind because he believes Kovalev/Stevenson are too much for him IMO.


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## Vysotsky (Jun 6, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> No, I'm asking a question.. But funny Ward said it as well, seeing as it has truth to it. Kovalev and Stevenson both would be good fights, like I said.. Who else?


Who is at 168? Is Ward going to travel to England to fight Degale or Groves? Sturm or AA again in Germany? One of the Dirrell's when it didn't happen the first time because they're bff's? Chavez is *never* going to fight him.

So basically it's Froch who he's already fought or one of the Dirrell's which seems unlikely and neither of them are better fights than Kovalev/Stevenson. Aside from that the contenders are no better. LHW has Pascal, Bute, Fonfara, Alvarez but more importantly in terms of looking to the future Beterbiev, Mekhontsev, Gvozdyk, Browne, Shabranskyy, Gonzalez, Koelling and a slew of good looking prospects which SMW is devoid of.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Vysotsky said:


> Ward said his body was ready 3 years ago and any rational person would hold the opinion that he knows his own body better than Hunter. If his reversal is on account of Hunter's advise it doesn't have to do with him knowing Andre's body better, it's him giving Ward career advice because he thinks 175 and/or the opponents there are too much risk.
> 
> If you weren't aware he said that it's cool but don't try to continue arguing on behalf of his contradictions and backpeddling.


 Regardless, Ward schools Kovalev, and if Golovkin ever decides to stop fighting bums he'll get it too

Both Degale and Dirrell are tougher fights stylistically even if I rate Kovalev higher. No one who gets hit with 40% of power punches by wild Pascal is beating Ward


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Vysotsky said:


> Who is at 168? Is Ward going to travel to England to fight Degale or Groves? Sturm or AA again in Germany? One of the Dirrell's when it didn't happen the first time because they're bff's? Chavez is *never* going to fight him.
> 
> So basically it's Froch who he's already fought or one of the Dirrell's which seems unlikely and neither of them are better fights than Kovalev/Stevenson. Aside from that the contenders are no better. LHW has Pascal, Bute, Fonfara, Alvarez but more importantly in terms of looking to the future Beterbiev, Mekhontsev, Gvozdyk, Browne, Shabranskyy, Gonzalez, Koelling and a slew of good looking prospects which SMW is devoid of.


Ward's comfortable weight is at 168.

Froch and one of the Dirrell's are good fights. Ward has time to move up to 175 to face those future opponents you speak of... Who is saying Ward will never move up?


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Vysotsky said:


> Who is at 168? Is Ward going to travel to England to fight Degale or Groves? Sturm or AA again in Germany? One of the Dirrell's when it didn't happen the first time because they're bff's? Chavez is *never* going to fight him.


Degale and Dirrell just went to purse bids and the fight will be in America

Why wouldn't Ward who has more weight than Dirrell be the same

Just because Froch used England to hide from Ward as an excuse doesn't mean a hungry fighter like Degale wouldn't fight in Wards living room if it came down to him

Same as Groves who trains in America from time to time



> Beterbiev, Mekhontsev, Gvozdyk, Browne, Shabranskyy, Gonzalez, Koelling and a slew of good looking prospects which SMW is devoid of.


Lmao who?


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Not much, but there are a few opponents. Don't see a problem with him wanting to stay at 168 to clean house completely, or as much as he can. I think he'll move up too, just don't think he needs to rush and do it, and his trainer feels the same way. Also think as he gets older he may naturally go up in weight, or want to, to compensate for slower reflexes.


Except you can't clean house completely. Which was a part of what i said in that there will always be a #1 or #2 contender in the division available to fight. I doubt staying at a division where he's already defeated his peers, over an 11 year span in the division, constitutes being rushed.

At some point, he'll need to say "forget 168" and move up. Being older and moving to 175 might sound good, but there will be guys who have speed and power at 175, just as there is in any division. If he's moving up in weight because of age, then the writing is on the wall for him.



Divi253 said:


> Also depends on what would happen at 175 if he's not ready for it. Could go up there lose and not be the same after. I'd have to think Virgil doesn't want him in there with them at 175 for a reason..


You may be right. Maybe he's avoiding having to eventually face Kovalev. I doubt that's the case. I don't think Ward has any problems with his confidence in fights at 175. My opinion, he's waiting for GGG. I think he knows GGG's star is quickly rising, and will hold out moving to 175 until after a GGG fight. Problem with that is, it's just wasting prime time, if that's the case.



Divi253 said:


> If the right competition isn't in a weight class you belong in you fight who's available IMO..


FMjr fought above his right weight. So have MP. Cotto took a risk versus Martinez fighting out of his weight, look at how that paid off. Point is, guys who are on another level, have done it, and will do it.

Maybe we are all wrong about how great Andre Ward can be. Maybe after all this time off, not fighting a top contender at 168, he should be not only removed from any and all rankings, but should be dropped from everyone's P4P list (that he made from fights 4 years ago). Maybe he wants to be the American Joe Calzaghe. We've all seen how great that turned out for the original (Saying as a big Calzaghe fan BTW).:smile


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Mal said:


> Except you can't clean house completely. Which was a part of what i said in that there will always be a #1 or #2 contender in the division available to fight. I doubt staying at a division where he's already defeated his peers, over an 11 year span in the division, constitutes being rushed.


Well yeah he can't beat everyone, but he can beat everyone with a name.. There are a few more of them at 168 where he's comfortable. He's not being rushed staying in the division no, but if he's not a natural 175 fighter, going there before he's ready is being rushed.



Mal said:


> At some point, he'll need to say "forget 168" and move up. Being older and moving to 175 might sound good, but there will be guys who have speed and power at 175, just as there is in any division. If he's moving up in weight because of age, then the writing is on the wall for him.


But he doesn't have to do that.. I'm sure he will eventually move up, but I believe it will be when he gains some weight naturally or adjusts his style to include more strength due to slower reflexes. I don't see them moving up because 'there are no names in the division'.. Especially when there are only a few in the division above.



Mal said:


> You may be right. Maybe he's avoiding having to eventually face Kovalev. I doubt that's the case. I don't think Ward has any problems with his confidence in fights at 175. My opinion, he's waiting for GGG. I think he knows GGG's star is quickly rising, and will hold out moving to 175 until after a GGG fight. Problem with that is, it's just wasting prime time, if that's the case.


I don't think it's Kovalev in particular, or Stevenson.. He's not chasing anyone at 175, not calling any fighters out in that weight class. I don't believe the weight class is where he wants to be, as he and/or Virgil believe he will be at a size disadvantage. He could be waiting for GGG, but I can't see how they believe that is smart.. Especially after this long. GGG won't make Ward a superstar, they have to know that.



Mal said:


> FMjr fought above his right weight. So have MP. Cotto took a risk versus Martinez fighting out of his weight, look at how that paid off. Point is, guys who are on another level, have done it, and will do it.


Floyd will only face certain 154 fighters and people want him to drop his belt because of it. Pac fought at a catchweight one time against an opponent made for him, then never went back. Cotto is unwilling to face the best at 160, if anyone at 160. All of them went up there to face a big name they thought they could beat, then moved back down or avoided fighters in the weight class. Ward has shown he doesn't want to go up there and back down to 168 with his comments on who else he'd face.. When he goes up there it's when he's ready to fight there permanently.. What's wrong with that?



Mal said:


> Maybe we are all wrong about how great Andre Ward can be. Maybe after all this time off, not fighting a top contender at 168, he should be not only removed from any and all rankings, but should be dropped from everyone's P4P list (that he made from fights 4 years ago). Maybe he wants to be the American Joe Calzaghe. We've all seen how great that turned out for the original (Saying as a big Calzaghe fan BTW).:smile


I think he can be great, and I have the fullest confidence in him at 175.. But his team obviously doesn't want him up there yet, and I don't have an issue with his team keeping him at 168 as long as he doesn't call out 175 fighters. Until he fights again I agree he should be removed from top 10 rankings.. Maybe that'll get him in the ring again, he knows he'll shoot right back up them soon as he fights.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Regardless, Ward schools Kovalev*, and if Golovkin ever decides to stop fighting bums he'll get it too*


:rolleyes

If ever you happen to stumble into a clue in the dark, Let us know.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> :rolleyes
> 
> If ever you happen to stumble into a clue in the dark, Let us know.


Golovkin is pretty much doing what a light middleweight old Martinez was able to do which ko a bunch of club level British fighters and you jizz over. Puhleaze


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Right. Golovkin is purposely avoiding all the top middleweights.

OK, then. Good to know ! What WAS I thinking? :rolleyes

--------------------


C'mon, man. You know better. Politics is politics. Don't turn into a fool just because you don't like the guy.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

Divi253 said:


> Well yeah he can't beat everyone, but he can beat everyone with a name.. There are a few more of them at 168 where he's comfortable. He's not being rushed staying in the division no, but if he's not a natural 175 fighter, going there before he's ready is being rushed.
> 
> But he doesn't have to do that.. I'm sure he will eventually move up, but I believe it will be when he gains some weight naturally or adjusts his style to include more strength due to slower reflexes. I don't see them moving up because 'there are no names in the division'.. Especially when there are only a few in the division above.
> 
> ...


You know, this is why I respect you Div, you can put forth a good discussion even when I am in disagreement. I cannot say I disagree with everything you say. I just wonder what exactly Ward is waiting for. I'm fine if he chooses to stay at 168, or moves to 175 when he's older and cannot make 168 (Which is the worst reason to move up BTW).

This is all just for the sake of speculation mind you. Our opinions on Ward aren't about fact or who's telling the truth. It's just opinion on his reasoning.

I'll say this once more, but Ward has done all he needs to do at 168. At some point all fighters outgrow a division. and need to challenge themselves. Ward isn't challenging himself anymore. But I will say, that can all change with a simple announcement. For all we know, he might move to 175 soon. But I stand by my assertion, as the long standing 168 World champ, having defeated anyone of note WORTH defeating, there's nothing left to do at 168.


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## Mal (Aug 25, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Golovkin is pretty much doing what a light middleweight old Martinez was able to do which ko a bunch of club level British fighters and you jizz over. Puhleaze


You really love to show how stupid you are. As if you know anything about these Euro fighters. Or have even seen them enough to make an honest account of them. You are the worst type of fan in sport. Stupid and proud of it.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Right. Golovkin is purposely avoiding all the top middleweights.
> 
> OK, then. Good to know ! What WAS I thinking? :rolleyes
> 
> ...


I think he's high risk low reward, which is an obstacle, but so is Kovalev and hes actually fighting solid champions not Martinez leftovers

Then again Golovkin isn't as good as Kovalev maybe that is his level


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Mal said:


> You really love to show how stupid you are. As if you know anything about these Euro fighters. Or have even seen them enough to make an honest account of them. You are the worst type of fan in sport. Stupid and proud of it.


Shut up ***, nobody was talking to you. Do I need to run down the list as to why Matthew Macklin, Murray and Geale are poor opposition for a 32 year old silver medalist.

Should I overrate Quillin when he inevitably blows out Andy Lee who is probably better than all three of those also rans

Nevemind ****, tell me again how Ward should move to 175 instead of fighting Degale, Groves or the Dirrell bros?


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

Mal said:


> You know, this is why I respect you Div, you can put forth a good discussion even when I am in disagreement. I cannot say I disagree with everything you say. I just wonder what exactly Ward is waiting for. I'm fine if he chooses to stay at 168, or moves to 175 when he's older and cannot make 168 (Which is the worst reason to move up BTW).
> 
> This is all just for the sake of speculation mind you. Our opinions on Ward aren't about fact or who's telling the truth. It's just opinion on his reasoning.
> 
> I'll say this once more, but Ward has done all he needs to do at 168. At some point all fighters outgrow a division. and need to challenge themselves. Ward isn't challenging himself anymore. But I will say, that can all change with a simple announcement. For all we know, he might move to 175 soon. But I stand by my assertion, as the long standing 168 World champ, having defeated anyone of note WORTH defeating, there's nothing left to do at 168.


:cheers I think he'll move up, and it could be soon. But think him and Hunter stating they want to stay at 168 right now is for a good reason.. And hope it's not just to chase one fight against someone who may or may not move up. Kovalev and Stevenson aren't going anywhere and even after one loses to the other will both be good names once Ward moves up.

Definitely.

Different expectations. I agree it's not much left for him to do at 168 but don't believe he has to move up because there's not many challenges. Might hurt his ranking in the long run, but it's his choice. Those bigger guys will still be there in a couple of years if it takes that long.


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

Mal said:


> You really love to show how stupid you are. As if you know anything about these Euro fighters. Or have even seen them enough to make an honest account of them. You are the worst type of fan in sport. Stupid and proud of it.


He knows they're white, and he knows they're not American. That's all the tool needs to know.


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## BuffDopey (May 6, 2014)

Oh Andre ward my friend.... you won't be concious by the end.....


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## Lester1583 (Jun 30, 2012)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Golovkin is pretty much doing what a light middleweight old Martinez was able to do


True.

Although Martinez was praised _(overrated)_ for that too, to be fair.

With that level of opposition some other hard-hitting/good middleweights would have looked as dominant as Golovkin is right now - hype (and GGG's potential) is what separates him from them right now.

Stopping murrays of the world is not necessarily a sign of hidden greatness, even if they are top10/top5/top2 fighters at the moment.


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## JamieC (Jun 2, 2012)

EDIT: See this discussion has already happened :lol:


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Felix said:


> He knows they're white, and he knows they're not American. That's all the tool needs to know.


Clearly you've read nothing ive said about Kovalev. Just pull the race card immediately eh


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## Mr. Brain (Jun 4, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> There's no need for Ward to drag his heals in SMW. Move up to LHW.
> 
> Ward's excuse before the fight was that Kovalev is an unknown, he wouldn't get any credit for beating him:
> 
> ...


If he money is right, Ward will be in sight.


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Clearly you've read nothing ive said about Kovalev. Just pull the race card immediately eh


Please, dickhead; don't be so precious. Every opinion you form is based around skin colour and nationality.


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## Divi253 (Jun 4, 2013)

JamieC said:


> EDIT: See this discussion has already happened :lol:


:cheers I think by the time he moves up the new talent will have been there a little and established themselves. Will be better fights then IMO. But I agree in the end, not much talent at 168. But enough for him to be there a year or two if he feels necessary, and everyone at 175 will still be available IMO.


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## MichiganWarrior (Jun 4, 2013)

Felix said:


> Please, dickhead; don't be so precious. Every opinion you form is based around skin colour and nationality.


yawn, move along son.


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> yawn, move along son.


Worst poster on here.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

He didn't fight Bute because of all the KO's he was racking up either.


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## Kid Generic Alias (Oct 29, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Regardless, Ward schools Kovalev, and if Golovkin ever decides to stop fighting bums he'll get it too
> 
> Both Degale and Dirrell are tougher fights stylistically even if I rate Kovalev higher. No one who gets hit with 40% of power punches by wild Pascal is beating Ward


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

MichiganWarrior said:


> Regardless, Ward schools Kovalev, and if Golovkin ever decides to stop fighting bums he'll get it too
> 
> Both Degale and Dirrell are tougher fights stylistically even if I rate Kovalev higher. No one who gets hit with 40% of power punches by wild Pascal is beating Ward


Ward has hardly beaten anybody that can be compared to Kovalev stylistically. So for that reason, for anyone to act like Ward will just school him easily is reaching IMO


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## Trail (May 24, 2013)

Kurushi said:


> I wish he would.* I think Ward would stop Kovalev*. It's just that Ward appears to have a sense of entitlement so large that it's sabotaging his own career.


I don't think you know your boxing.


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## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> There's no need for Ward to drag his heals in SMW. Move up to LHW.
> 
> Ward's excuse before the fight was that Kovalev is an unknown, he wouldn't get any credit for beating him:
> 
> ...


I agree Tommy...and I like Ward, but he's part of the problem boxing is having today. Guys are contorting themselves into pretzels to avoid fighting the guys that they should fight. Mayweather set the example, and Ward, Froch, Cotto, etc., they're all of the "cherry picking" school of boxing.
Consider Ali in the 70's,...he couldn't wait to get at Frazier...he was one of many others in that era, as in other previous eras as well who stepped up to the plate and fought the big fights without wrangling for an advantage, like waiting for a guy to get old and/or past his peak, insisting on a home country advantage....and basically just not fighting the best when it's the only thing to do.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

Phantom said:


> I agree Tommy...and I like Ward, but he's part of the problem boxing is having today. Guys are contorting themselves into pretzels to avoid fighting the guys that they should fight. Mayweather set the example, and Ward, Froch, Cotto, etc., they're all of the "cherry picking" school of boxing.


Ward thinks he's bigger than he is. He thinks he's some kind of star, but the truth is, after the super six he hasn't really done much. He hasn't accomplished enough in his career to be acting like this.



> Consider Ali in the 70's,...he couldn't wait to get at Frazier...he was one of many others in that era, as in other previous eras as well who stepped up to the plate and fought the big fights without wrangling for an advantage, like waiting for a guy to get old and/or past his peak, insisting on a home country advantage....and basically just not fighting the best when it's the only thing to do.


Great point about Ali. They really don't build fighters the same as they did in the past. Can you imagine if Ali had waited till Frazier got KO'd by Foreman before fighting him?? It would rightfully take something away from Ali's legacy if he pulled some BS that these fighters today do..


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## Phantom (May 17, 2013)

tommygun711 said:


> Ward thinks he's bigger than he is. He thinks he's some kind of star, but the truth is, after the super six he hasn't really done much. He hasn't accomplished enough in his career to be acting like this.
> 
> Great point about Ali. They really don't build fighters the same as they did in the past. Can you imagine if Ali had waited till Frazier got KO'd by Foreman before fighting him?? It would rightfully take something away from Ali's legacy if he pulled some BS that these fighters today do..


Mayweather should have fought Pac in 2009/2010, Froch and Cotto both should be fighting GGG...they both act like they're scared of him, and Froch shouldn't give damn where he fights Ward...just for starters.


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