# Punch resistance based off appearance



## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

I know this is probably dumb as hell, but can you ever tell how somebody's punch resistance is just by looking at them.

for example:

Roger Mayweather









compared to

George Chuvalo 









and Julio Cesar Chavez Sr.


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## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

It's far from foolproof obviously, but sometimes a guy does indeed have that I can take a ridiculous punch look to him.










But then again, I'd never expect this guy to have an ATG beard:


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## FloydPatterson (Jun 4, 2013)

Peter Quillin has very skinny legs but can take a good punch, but you would expect him to have a glass jaw by first glance


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## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

Khan has that shaky chin look to him. Thin/long neck, thin legs, just doesn't look too sturdy.










Sillakh also










Vitali has that square jaw tough guy/durable thing going on.


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## JMP (Jun 3, 2013)

And of course, it's very easy to tell just by this picture alone that it is straight-up impossible to hurt this man with anything but an aluminum bat.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

:yep yeah there's plenty of examples that disprove what I'm saying.

This guys has a very solid chin


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

JMP said:


> Khan has that shaky chin look to him. Thin/long neck, thin legs, just doesn't look too sturdy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lol: yeah I'm glad you're seeing the same things I am


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## PivotPunch (Aug 1, 2012)

I don't know there are some guys who have really good chins depsite not looking that way. Paulie has a great chin and who would think that Cloud has such a great chin looking at him? He has a narrow face and not a really big neck but he took huge shots from Stevenson who has a bigger neck and a bigger head but doesn't take punches as well.
But to be fair you can tell that Hearns, Wilder and Khan are koable just by looking at them


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## Illuminaughty (Aug 19, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> :yep yeah there's plenty of examples that disprove what I'm saying.
> 
> This guys has a very solid chin


 one point deducted for the headband


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## til20 (Oct 2, 2013)

Who would think Paul Williams would have such a great chin? Seth Mitchell is a guy who looks like he could take a punch based on his build but that obviously isn't the case.


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## boxingfan (Aug 1, 2013)

This guys chin is iron, i dont know about you guys, but i believe size of head has a much greater influence on ones chin than the persons neck does...










(sorry if pic doesnt post right, unsure how to do it)


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> :yep yeah there's plenty of examples that disprove what I'm saying.
> 
> This guys has a very solid chin


If you look though his head is sitting squarely on his neck. It's less about the jaw size and more about the neck as the connector of the body and head, I feel. Guys like Chavulo who have wide jaws usually also have short, wide necks. I don't even think they need to be short, just wide enough so the head is "set" on there I guess.

DLH's neck isn't wide but his traps and neck muscles are very visible.










Shane's neck is wide and isn't much thinner than his head










Whereas in that Khan pick you posted:










His neck looks so disconnected from his traps that it looks like an independent entity just shooting up from the torso.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

til20 said:


> Who would think Paul Williams would have such a great chin? Seth Mitchell is a guy who looks like he could take a punch based on his build but that obviously isn't the case.


Paul had great conditioning, but I agree. You would think his chin was straight glass (before Martinez, it was iron).

and Seth Mitchell had to quit football because his knees were shot. I knew that wouldn't be good for taking punches


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> If you look though his head is sitting squarely on his neck. It's less about the jaw size and more about the neck as the connector of the body and head, I feel. Guys like Chavulo who have wide jaws usually also have short, wide necks. I don't even think they need to be short, just wide enough so the head is "set" on there I guess.
> 
> DLH's neck isn't wide but his traps and neck muscles are very visible.
> 
> ...


oh shit, I see what you're talking about. I wish there was a scientific test they could do for this


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> oh shit, I see what you're talking about. I wish there was a scientific test they could do for this


There probably is, no doubt they can simulate concussions and to do so with different bone densities and shapes would be interesting.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> There probably is, no doubt they can simulate concussions and to do so with different bone densities and shapes would be interesting.


The NFL is doing a lot of research into concussions. Maybe they'll come up with good stuff


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> The NFL is doing a lot of research into concussions. Maybe they'll come up with good stuff


Yeah word, they're an institution that can actually do things lol concussions in the NFL are nasty though, apparently boxing is worse over time but a single concussion in the NFL is worse than single impacts in boxing. Who was it that got laid the fuck out a week ago?


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## It's Ovah (Jun 6, 2013)

I'm not sure you can tell just by looks.

Dominick Guinn at first glance doesn't look too durable, but he's proven to have one of the best HW jaws of the last ten years.










Whereas Andrew Golota and Oleg Maskaev look like they could take a bat to the jaw, but have been down multiple times.


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## Berliner (Jun 6, 2013)

you cant say it by the Looks. This is pretty clear.


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## oibighead (May 23, 2013)

JMP said:


> It's far from foolproof obviously, but sometimes a guy does indeed have that I can take a ridiculous punch look to him.
> 
> But then again, I'd never expect this guy to have an ATG beard:


Took a prime Princes bombs all night.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yeah word, they're an institution that can actually do things lol concussions in the NFL are nasty though, apparently boxing is worse over time but a single concussion in the NFL is worse than single impacts in boxing. Who was it that got laid the fuck out a week ago?


I know Danny Amedola got a bad one. Is this the one you're talking about? His ass is always getting injured


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> I know Danny Amedola got a bad one. Is this the one you're talking about? His ass is always getting injured


Yup that's the one, brutal.

For a sec I was like "the fuck that sounds exactly like Lawler and JR" :rofl


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

JMP said:


> And of course, it's very easy to tell just by this picture alone that it is straight-up impossible to hurt this man with anything but an aluminum bat.


Aluminum :lol:


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

Iron :deal :deal


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Yup that's the one, brutal.
> 
> For a sec I was like "the fuck that sounds exactly like Lawler and JR" :rofl


:lol: foreal.

This is probably the scariest hit I saw live that I can remember. This was one brutal game. Every tackle in the game could be heard on TV.






He was on the ground for like 5 minutes just twitching his hands :stonk


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## DOM5153 (May 16, 2013)

I think looks can be very deceiving when judging a fighters punch resistance and in my opinion at least should hold very little value. Id never think by just looking at him that Arreola could take a better punch than Seth Mitchell or Wladimir Klitschko but he does.


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## It's Ovah (Jun 6, 2013)

JMP said:


> But then again, I'd never expect this guy to have an ATG beard:


I never realised how much McCullogh looks like Calzaghe.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> :lol: foreal.
> 
> This is probably the scariest hit I saw live that I can remember. This was one brutal game. Every tackle in the game could be heard on TV.
> 
> ...


And they want to ban boxing, smh :lol: jk


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## McKay (Jun 6, 2012)

Jason Litzau is a guy whose appearance correctly fits his punch resistance. He looks fragile as hell and his punch resistance is awful.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> And they want to ban boxing, smh :lol: jk


:yep foreal man. These guys are running at each other full speed head first


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## Muff (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> :lol: foreal.
> 
> This is probably the scariest hit I saw live that I can remember. This was one brutal game. Every tackle in the game could be heard on TV.
> 
> ...


My head hurts from just watching that. Can only imagine that kind of impact. Fuck.


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## pijo (Jun 24, 2012)

Bogotazo said:


> There probably is, no doubt they can simulate concussions and to do so with different bone densities and shapes would be interesting.


I'm sure I read a few years back that Hagler's skull was 1/4 inch thicker than your average or something along those lines. Maybe someone knows more.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Pure distilled high quality iron









When he broke down, Lewis landed a monster uppercut and his head barely moved an inch.
Didn't even look at the punches that came after that bomb.
His chin is simply the best ever.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Skip to 0:35
This guy despite his record suggesting that he has a glass jaw could also take a punch extremely well.
Scariest fact is that being a punching bag the guy still got a straight nose.

He was a shit boxer though he mainly lost to good opponents.

The shots he took against Moorer in a single round were also crazy, last few seconds it was just bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang.


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## JohnAnthony (Jun 6, 2013)

here's am exception to the rule


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

dyna said:


> Pure distilled high quality iron
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Then again...



looking at this pic you would assume the guy on the left was more durable. Shorter, thicker neck, bigger head etc. yet he got KO'd rather easily. Also look at Michael Moorer at Heavy



You'd think he was cast iron but he wasn't.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

The crazy thing with Moorer is that I'm amazed that he could make lhw.
He was freaking huge.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

pijo said:


> I'm sure I read a few years back that Hagler's skull was 1/4 inch thicker than your average or something along those lines. Maybe someone knows more.


I think it was the layer of muscle that protects the brain. I think it's like a layer of muscle then fluid protecting your brain and his layer of muscle was much thicker than average. Also he had a very powerful build. Neck was muscle on muscle and had a very solid head, Tommy Hearns said his head was a weapon :lol: Hagler hated this subject tho because it brought up the whole racial thing.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

dyna said:


> The crazy thing with Moorer is that I'm amazed that he could make lhw.
> He was freaking huge.


Makes sense that at Light Heavy he could tap guys on the shoulder and KO them.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

You got a point there :lol:


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

The dude in my Avi doesn't really fit the bill for a granite chin but you better believe he had one. 200 fights and only stopped once at Light Heavy because of heat exhaustion.



Look at him compared to Fullmer. Yet dare I say he had a better chin than him.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Yea, SRR looks like he has a Khan tier chin.
Meanwhile Fullmer looks as good(bad) as SNV.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Bar Robinson and Arguello I can't think of many boxers with good chin with relatively thin necks, small heads or thin legs.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

This guy had an iron chin too









10 tkos in 300 fights, never been counted out.
The Naseem Hamed "stoppage" was premature and bullshit, probably the majority of his stoppage losses were British "stoppages".
He was also an ex fw(Could make bantamweight at 28 years old) being undersized against welters/light welters most of his career.

He probably also had the most unbeaten fighters of any boxer ever on his record. (Not counting pro debuts I counted 135 unbeaten fighters on his record)
Peter Buckley
Fought any man at anytime anywhere.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

A few more examples



Max Baer and Tom Heeney. You'd think the guy on the left (Heeney) had the better chin but it was relativley weak while Baers was granite.



Same thing here with Baer and Carnera. You also wouldn't guess that he was by far the harder puncher of the two. The pictures are deceiving though, Baer was actually a big guy. Huge head and thick neck.


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## Chatty (Jun 6, 2012)

According to Dmitriy Salita it all to do with the shape of the chin.


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## rossco (Jun 9, 2013)

The guy in my avi had a tremendous beard.


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Frank Klaus left, Granite jaw and you can tell, it looks resistant to bullets tbh


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Bar Robinson and Arguello I can't think of many boxers with good chin with relatively thin necks, small heads or thin legs.


Monzon maybe


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

McClellan took punches from Julian Jackson that made his head snap back in weird ways and stood up fine, i wouldn't really expect that much punch resistance from him from looking at him.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Theron said:


> Monzon maybe


Hard to tell usually due to his long hair but Monzon had a very solid neck. McClellan is a good shout but then again he was a cruiser :lol:


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## smjm089 (May 17, 2013)

Wach took bombs from Wlad for 12 rounds and im sure he took some big shots from Haye in that training clip Haye put out for the Fury fight.


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## BUMPY (Jul 26, 2012)

If you have a long thin neck you're going to have serious problems getting punched in the face, absolute fact @Dealt_with


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## Royal-T-Bag (Jun 5, 2013)

Amazing chin:










Sometimes amazing, sometimes shit:










usually no good but def a few notable exception like chuvalo, vitali, basilio:


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Hard to tell usually due to his long hair but Monzon had a very solid neck. McClellan is a good shout but then again he was a cruiser :lol:


Normally draining 20 lbs of water is extremely bad for the chin so I doubt being a cruiser in the mw division was a real help for G-man his chin.


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## It's Ovah (Jun 6, 2013)

Here's Andrade, who has (had?) an insane chin. Not a particularly thick looking neck; in fact his head would snap back with every hard shot thrown, but he just seemed to be able to absorb it all.


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## Blanco (Aug 29, 2012)

@bballchump11

I remember Rico had a similar thread subject like this :yep

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?p=8530933


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## Sexy Sergio ( L E O N ) (May 19, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Bar Robinson and Arguello I can't think of many boxers with good chin with relatively thin necks, small heads or thin legs.


blacks usually have slimmer calves


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## It's Ovah (Jun 6, 2013)

dyna said:


> Pure distilled high quality iron
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There was something chllingly inhuman about the way McCall could take punches without blinking. The man simply could not be hurt.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

Blanco said:


> @bballchump11
> 
> I remember Rico had a similar thread subject like this :yep
> 
> http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?p=8530933


:lol: see great minds think alike


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## pipe wrenched (Jun 4, 2013)

It's Ovah said:


> There was something chllingly inhuman about the way McCall could take punches without blinking. The man simply could not be hurt.


What about Big Time McCline??

I remember him taking some big ass shots when I seen him, but am not sure if he ever got smoked out there :think


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

BUMPY said:


> If you have a long thin neck you're going to have serious problems getting punched in the face, absolute fact @Dealt_with


It wouldn't make any difference at all. It's the active stiffness of the neck that makes a difference (which you can't tell at all by looking at someone), and having a longer neck is probably beneficial in that it allows force to dissipate over a longer period of time and detrimental at the same time in that more torque can be applied due to the greater moment arm.
It really is a stupid thread topic tbh.


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## Ozark (Jun 8, 2013)

You simply can't tell based on physical characteristics. It's some nebulous quantity; like some kind of brain glue. 

I've got a skinny, long neck and pretty skinny legs and a certifiable and well tested granite beard. (also I've got a big head, but not really freakish, very bulky torso over a weird frame, slender at the extremities and thick boned more centrally) - I've clocked and dropped neckless thick legged behemoths who had a big weight advantage over me.

Something inherent in the central nervous system, if you ask me. Just some unquantifiable factor you can't tell by just looking.

For generations, people have worked out their neck, their legs, chewed huge wads of bubble gum to build up their jaw muscles, and it doesn't do much. You either got it, or you don't.


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

I think the size of the head does have something to do with it


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Ah Salvador Sanchez 

Skinny neck, head and legs although i don't see what legs have to do with it but yeah. And could take a huge punch without flinching


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## It's Ovah (Jun 6, 2013)

pipe wrenched said:


> What about Big Time McCline??
> 
> I remember him taking some big ass shots when I seen him, but am not sure if he ever got smoked out there :think


McCline? Not really in the running.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> It wouldn't make any difference at all. It's the active stiffness of the neck that makes a difference (which you can't tell at all by looking at someone), and having a longer neck is probably beneficial in that it allows force to dissipate over a longer period of time and detrimental at the same time in that more torque can be applied due to the greater moment arm.
> It really is a stupid thread topic tbh.


Consistently the best chis in boxing belong to people with shorter, thicker necks. Why? Because the head has less range of motion given the shorter neck and less likely to snap back in such a way to get KO'd. Of course there are many exceptions to the rule but generally shorter, thicker necks means being able to take a punch better. Tony Galento was decked twice (both by Joe Louis) in his entire boxing career. Countless amateur matches, thousands of rounds of sparring and over 100 professional fights.



He had basically a non existent neck.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Consistently the best chis in boxing belong to people with shorter, thicker necks. Why? Because the head has less range of motion given the shorter neck and less likely to snap back in such a way to get KO'd. Of course there are many exceptions to the rule but generally shorter, thicker necks means being able to take a punch better. Tony Galento was decked twice (both by Joe Louis) in his entire boxing career. Countless amateur matches, thousands of rounds of sparring and over 100 professional fights.
> 
> 
> 
> He had basically a non existent neck.


Wow that's highly scientific :rolleyes As I've already mentioned it's the active stiffness that makes the difference. That's why we strengthen rugby players necks. A larger range of motion is actually advantageous if you have greater active muscle stiffness as there is less of a whiplash effect.

Here's a picture because I want to be highly scientific like you:








- Has to be hiding some china









- Can obviously take any punch


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Wow that's highly scientific :rolleyes As I've already mentioned it's the active stiffness that makes the difference. That's why we strengthen rugby players necks. A larger range of motion is actually advantageous if you have greater active muscle stiffness as there is less of a whiplash effect.
> 
> Here's a picture because I want to be highly scientific like you:
> 
> ...


I said "generally" didn't I? I'm not trying to be scientific it is the topic of the thread and using common sense looking at the most durable guys in boxing there is a pretty consistent pattern. Fuck sake you really like pulling stuff out of your ass don't you?


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> I said "generally" didn't I? I'm not trying to be scientific it is the topic of the thread and using common sense looking at the most durable guys in boxing there is a pretty consistent pattern. Fuck sake you really like pulling stuff out of your ass don't you?


Generally? So you did a longitudinal study and measured neck dimensions? Do you think it's possible that you haven't observed every boxer in the world and taken into account all the variables? Do you think it's possible that you haven't performed a comprehensive statistical analysis? Do you think it's possible for you to have some confirmation bias?
And I'm the one pulling things out of my ass? :roflatsch

As someone who works professionally with contact sport athletes I have to know about the factors associated with preventing concussion. There isn't a lot of research but there are strong indications that active muscle stiffness of the neck area makes a big difference. If you understand anything about biomechanics you would understand why your neck length theory is completely irrelevant. That's not common sense, that's a lack of understanding and making assumptions based on appearances (which is a highly popular thing for armchair fans and the uneducated to do).


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## sugarshane_24 (Apr 20, 2013)

Judging by looks, had Jay Leno been a pro, he'd be unhurtable.


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

sugarshane_24 said:


> Judging by looks, had Jay Leno been a pro, he'd be unhurtable.
> 
> View attachment 1013


The white Hagler


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

pijo said:


> I'm sure I read a few years back that Hagler's skull was 1/4 inch thicker than your average or something along those lines. Maybe someone knows more.


Yes.

The same is true of JCC. That's a known fact, as he had a brain X-ray once & the slides were leaked. (I'm sure Jr. has the same genetics.)

This is obviously something you can't see normally.

I'm not sold on the "thick neck" thing, either: Some say this helps keep your head steady, but think about it: the best way to deflect a punch's power, if you can't avoid it, is to "roll with it." You go limp at let your head fly back (or sideways) thus lessening the initial impact. Using strong neck muscles to keep your head steady is probably the worst thing you can do.

I have a masters in what is now called Kinesiology, and I have never once seen any proof about the "thick neck" thing. It's more like an accepted myth.

^ Having said that, the more mass around the head the better, because some of the kinetic energy will then diffuse downwards, instead of into the brain sack. So maybe having a thick neck helps, IF you don't use it to hold your head stiff.

I dunno ...... :conf


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> ....As I've already mentioned it's the active stiffness that makes the difference. That's why we strengthen rugby players necks. A larger range of motion is actually advantageous if you have greater active muscle stiffness as there is less of a whiplash effect.


I understand your point about the "whiplash effect" since most concussions happen when the brain hits the inside of the skull, and that's due to the head STOPPING its motion. - but if you lessen the initial impact, there is much less kinetic energy in the first place.

Anyway, what do you mean by "active stiffness?"


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Generally? So you did a longitudinal study and measured neck dimensions? Do you think it's possible that you haven't observed every boxer in the world and taken into account all the variables? Do you think it's possible that you haven't performed a comprehensive statistical analysis? Do you think it's possible for you to have some confirmation bias?
> And I'm the one pulling things out of my ass? :roflatsch
> 
> As someone who works professionally with contact sport athletes I have to know about the factors associated with preventing concussion. There isn't a lot of research but there are strong indications that active muscle stiffness of the neck area makes a big difference. If you understand anything about biomechanics you would understand why your neck length theory is completely irrelevant. That's not common sense, that's a lack of understanding and making assumptions based on appearances (*which is a highly popular thing for armchair fans and the uneducated to do*).


What like say Lomachenko is the best boxer in boxing based on nothing? Kay cool.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> I understand your point about the "whiplash effect" since most concussions happen when the brain hits the inside of the skull, and that's due to the head STOPPING its motion. - but if you lessen the initial impact, there is much less kinetic energy in the first place.
> 
> Anyway, what do you mean by "active stiffness?"


It means nothing even for someone who "works professionally with contact sport athletes". He uses the term as though it was an established term but it's not. In fact it makes no sense, muscles being stiff is rarely if ever a good thing.


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## Gunner (Jun 4, 2013)

Muscle stffess is bad

Having a weak neck is bad

Having a strong neck does not decrease your ability to roll with a punch at all, it increases it


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

Some shit happens and some people can take a good punch same with punching power, some genetic thing i guess that hasn't been pinpointed.

The whole neck thing though i mean Sanchez did not have a huge neck or head and could take a huge punch


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## RonnieHornschuh (Jun 7, 2013)

Physical appearance doesn't make a big difference whether you can take a punch. Wlad and Vitali have almost the same stature, yet one guy has never been down, the other one eleven times. Paea Wolfgram, Alex Leapai and Jimmy Thunder had a similar stature like Tua, yet they have glass jaws. Either you can take a punch, or not. It's an individual talent.


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## Leftsmash (Oct 22, 2012)

pijo said:


> I'm sure I read a few years back that Hagler's skull was 1/4 inch thicker than your average or something along those lines. Maybe someone knows more.


He had a very thick temporalis muscle.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

RonnieHornschuh said:


> Physical appearance doesn't make a big difference whether you can take a punch. Wlad and Vitali have almost the same stature, yet one guy has never been down, the other one eleven times. Paea Wolfgram, Alex Leapai and Jimmy Thunder had a similar stature like Tua, yet they have glass jaws. Either you can take a punch, or not. It's an individual talent.


It's weird boxing is like the only sport where so much is still unknown. What makes punchers and what makes granite chins is still unknown. Probably down to nerves and such.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Leftsmash said:


> He had a very thick temporalis muscle.


Yeah that's what it was. The muscles you can see on the side of your head when you chew.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> It means nothing even for someone who "works professionally with contact sport athletes". He uses the term as though it was an established term but it's not. In fact it makes no sense, muscles being stiff is rarely if ever a good thing.


Active muscle stiffness - the resistance of muscle during loading, related to crossbridge attachment. Greater muscle stiffness results in greater joint integrity, greater rate of force development etc. It's a result of neuromuscular function and the physiological properties of titin in the muscle fibre. Strength training/weight training increases both passive and active stiffness, which is beneficial for power production.
Muscle being stiff is a large factor in distinguishing between white and black college sprinters. Black sprinters have greater muscle stiffness in their triceps surae which allows greater force transmission to the achilles tendon.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...sCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false

Similar principles apply with neck stiffness, the greater the active stiffness (when the neck muscles are contracting) the less the velocity of the head when it's being punched. As velocity has a far greater influence on power than force does there is less power being transferred through your head.
Females have less leg stiffness and neck stiffness which is why they're at greater risk of ACL injuries and concussion.
http://www.jelectromyographykinesiology.com/article/S1050-6411(02)00003-2/abstract
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15389580309880#.UmPQ3CTWEdU

You've been educated, you're welcome, now STFU with your long/short neck bullshit :cheers


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> It's weird boxing is like the only sport where so much is still unknown. What makes punchers and what makes granite chins is still unknown. Probably down to nerves and such.


 :lol: It's known, but by people who don't give a shit about boxing.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> I understand your point about the "whiplash effect" since most concussions happen when the brain hits the inside of the skull, and that's due to the head STOPPING its motion. - but if you lessen the initial impact, there is much less kinetic energy in the first place.
> 
> Anyway, what do you mean by "active stiffness?"


Active muscle stiffness, see above


----------



## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Active muscle stiffness - the resistance of muscle during loading, related to crossbridge attachment. Greater muscle stiffness results in greater joint integrity, greater rate of force development etc. It's a result of neuromuscular function and the physiological properties of titin in the muscle fibre. Strength training/weight training increases both passive and active stiffness, which is beneficial for power production.
> Muscle being stiff is a large factor in distinguishing between white and black college sprinters. Black sprinters have greater muscle stiffness in their triceps surae which allows greater force transmission to the achilles tendon.
> 
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...sCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false
> ...


Educated on what exactly? You used an example completely irrelevant to boxing. Being able to sprint faster than some does not = being able to absorb a punch better. You just spewed a whole bunch of bullshit that really equates to nothing. This is simply your theory without the slightest shred of evidence.

Also no little if anything is known about what makes a puncher and what makes a good chin. If the answer was out there why is there 1000 threads asking the question? It isn't even known exactly causes a knockout let alone what makes someone less likely to be knocked out. You schooled fuck all boy now go masturbate to videos of Lomachenko.

PS. If you saw my previous posts you'll see I showed examples of boxers with thin necks with granite chins.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Educated on what exactly? You used an example completely irrelevant to boxing. Being able to sprint faster than some does not = being able to absorb a punch better. You just spewed a whole bunch of bullshit that really equates to nothing. This is simply your theory without the slightest shred of evidence.
> 
> Also no little if anything is known about what makes a puncher and what makes a good chin. If the answer was out there why is there 1000 threads asking the question? It isn't even known exactly causes a knockout let alone what makes someone less likely to be knocked out. You schooled fuck all boy now go masturbate to videos of Lomachenko.
> 
> PS. If you saw my previous posts you'll see I showed examples of boxers with thin necks with granite chins.


I provided scientific references while you provided pictures and an anecdote you dumb fuck :lol:
If you can't connect how females are at a greater risk of concussion in car accidents due to their neck stiffness and how that might relate to contact sports then I don't know how to help you. There are also studies on soccer players showing that the decreased neck stiffness in females results in a greater incidence of concussion.
There are a 1000 threads out there because there are thousands of dumb fuck boxing fans such as yourself. If people were educated on the scientific literature associated with other contact sports i.e. Rugby, NFL, Aussie Rules etc. and they could put two and two together (your dumb ass obviously can't) then we wouldn't need to repeat the thread 1000 times.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> I provided scientific references while you provided pictures and an anecdote you dumb fuck :lol:
> If you can't connect how females are at a greater risk of concussion in car accidents due to their neck stiffness and how that might relate to contact sports then I don't know how to help you. There are also studies on soccer players showing that the decreased neck stiffness in females results in a greater incidence of concussion.
> There are a 1000 threads out there because there are thousands of dumb fuck boxing fans such as yourself. If people were educated on the scientific literature associated with other contact sports i.e. Rugby, NFL, Aussie Rules etc. and they could put two and two together (your dumb ass obviously can't) then we wouldn't need to repeat the thread 1000 times.


You provided nothing that shows that 'active muscle stiffness' in necks is what causes someone to have a greater chin. You can keep trying to join your random dots together but fact is you have shown and proven nothing in regards to the topic at hand.

There is 1000 threads out there because what actually makes a puncher and what makes a good chin is still unknown. That is fact.

Also you said weight/strength training will increase it right? So if Amir Khan started doing some neck harness work he's going to have a good chin? Kay.

Again if you saw my previous posts you can see I show that saying a guy has a good chin because of his neck/head/whatever is anecdotal.


----------



## LuckyLuke (Jun 6, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> I provided scientific references while you provided pictures and an anecdote you dumb fuck :lol:
> If you can't connect how females are at a greater risk of concussion in car accidents due to their neck stiffness and how that might relate to contact sports then I don't know how to help you. There are also studies on soccer players showing that the decreased neck stiffness in females results in a greater incidence of concussion.
> There are a 1000 threads out there because there are thousands of dumb fuck boxing fans such as yourself. If people were educated on the scientific literature associated with other contact sports i.e. Rugby, NFL, Aussie Rules etc. and they could put two and two together (your dumb ass obviously can't) then we wouldn't need to repeat the thread 1000 times.


Lomachenko beats Mayweather 10:2 on his debut.


----------



## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> You provided nothing that shows that 'active muscle stiffness' in necks is what causes someone to have a greater chin. You can keep trying to join your random dots together but fact is you have shown and proven nothing in regards to the topic at hand.
> 
> There is 1000 threads out there because what actually makes a puncher and what makes a good chin is still unknown. That is fact.
> 
> ...


Is 'chin' related to concussion? Is concussion related to neck stiffness?
Jesus fucking Christ :-(


----------



## PowerBack (Jun 4, 2013)




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## Twelvey (Jun 6, 2012)

MadcapMaxie said:


> You provided nothing that shows that 'active muscle stiffness' in necks is what causes someone to have a greater chin. You can keep trying to join your random dots together but fact is you have shown and proven nothing in regards to the topic at hand.
> 
> There is 1000 threads out there because what actually makes a puncher and what makes a good chin is still unknown. That is fact.
> 
> ...


He provided peer-reviewed evidence that showed active muscle stiffness in the neck is linked to likelihood of a concussion. Probably pretty relevant to "chin" I'd think. Stupid thread.


----------



## OG Wenger (Oct 23, 2012)

bballchump11 said:


> :yep yeah there's plenty of examples that disprove what I'm saying.
> 
> This guys has a very solid chin


I always about to mention him. He looks like a strong breeze could knock him over, but he has a solid set of whiskers.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Marion Wilson had a very good chin 





His only stoppage loss were on cuts and that's never a chin issue.

The draw against Mercer was probably one of the worst robberies ever, infact it was so bad that Mercer shook his head and raised Wilson his arm.


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## It's Ovah (Jun 6, 2013)

Head size is an important factor, I think. Demetrice King has an absolute cauldron of a head and has never, to my knowledge, been clearly knocked out. De la Hoya had a huge bonce on a spindly little body and could take shots all day. In Jin Chi was of a similar build. Valuev has an epic skull.

Then there are those hard-edged chiselled types whose heads look all bone. Ben Tackie fits the bill here.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Yeah that's what it was. The muscles you can see on the side of your head when you chew.


He ALSO had a thick skull, like JCC. I distinctly remember reading that somewhere. Still, it doesn't really detract in any way. The man had balls of steel.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

It's Ovah said:


> Head size is an important factor, I think. Demetrice King has an absolute cauldron of a head and has never, to my knowledge, been clearly knocked out. De la Hoya had a huge bonce on a spindly little body and could take shots all day. In Jin Chi was of a similar build. Valuev has an epic skull......


Yep.

More bone means more dissipation of the blow's energy.


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

I don't know, would you expect this guy to have an iron chin??


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

PowerBack said:


>


Vitali's chin looks more solid to me.


----------



## PowerBack (Jun 4, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> Vitali's chin looks more solid to me.


Indeed :yep


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## It's Ovah (Jun 6, 2013)

With the Klits it's more a difference of mentality to me. Wlad can physically take pretty hard shots without dropping unconscious to the floor, and has done in the past, but his response to getting hit is totally different from that of his brother. Where Vitali gets mean, Wlad panics. There's a physiological difference there as well, but the differing mentalities exaggerate the gulf between the two men's ability to take a shot IMO.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Is 'chin' related to concussion? Is concussion related to neck stiffness?
> Jesus fucking Christ :-(


Chin is related to the loss of consciousness aka being KO'd not concussed. One can be KO'd without being concussed and one can be concussed without being KO'd.

Being in a car and getting t boned by a 500kg object traveling 80kmph does not equate to getting punch.

Like I said you have shown nothing that proves what you have been saying. Whereas I have not tried to prove anything simply shown some evidence that both supports and discredits anecdotal evidence which is this threads topic.

Also LOL 'chin' and what makes a 'puncher' is not known you fucking fuckwit.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> He ALSO had a thick skull, like JCC. I distinctly remember reading that somewhere. Still, it doesn't really detract in any way. The man had balls of steel.


Yeah he was just fucking armor plated. The way punches just didn't register with him is inhuman. I wonder what he felt when he got hit with a good shot. Does he at least feel dizzy?


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## elterrible (May 20, 2013)

It's Ovah said:


> With the Klits it's more a difference of mentality to me. Wlad can physically take pretty hard shots without dropping unconscious to the floor, and has done in the past, but his response to getting hit is totally different from that of his brother. Where Vitali gets mean, Wlad panics. There's a physiological difference there as well, but the differing mentalities exaggerate the gulf between the two men's ability to take a shot IMO.


The knockouts with Purity and Brewster he was really gassed. Everyone always says the Purity fight was gassed only, and he was gassed but because of that he was taking a ton of punches which is why it was stopped. Brewster he was never out and he was just slumping on his stool after looking like he was going to pass out. Id say his chin isnt all that bad, he had stamina problems more. His chin is probably average but when he gets hurt and then pressured he doesnt handle it well and panics.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

elterrible said:


> The knockouts with Purity and Brewster he was really gassed. Everyone always says the Purity fight was gassed only, and he was gassed but because of that he was taking a ton of punches which is why it was stopped. Brewster he was never out and he was just slumping on his stool after looking like he was going to pass out. Id say his chin isnt all that bad, he had stamina problems more. His chin is probably average but when he gets hurt and then pressured he doesnt handle it well and panics.


you know what another factor could be that also goes with your point is in those KO losses, he was gassed badly and got KO'd. After them, his punch resistance could have been affected in those fights and his chin became true glass later in his career.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Chin is related to the loss of consciousness aka being KO'd not concussed. One can be KO'd without being concussed and one can be concussed without being KO'd.
> 
> Being in a car and getting t boned by a 500kg object traveling 80kmph does not equate to getting punch.
> 
> ...


So Amir has a great chin then, because he's never been unconscious. If you get KO'd, what on earth happened to you if you didn't sustain a concussion?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion_grading_systems

How the fuck do you think they quantify concussion?

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/concussion/DS00320/DSECTION=tests-and-diagnosis

You really are a complete moron/dipshit/retard.

Chin is known, as I mentioned, and punching power is the interrelation between anthropometrics, genetics (the most important being the ACTN3 577RR gene which is associated with a greater proportion of type IIx fibres and titin in muscle fibres), power through the triple extension and kinetic chain, segment timing and scapular rhythm (as punching is fundamentally a throwing motion).
Now STFU you stupid motherfucker, learn something.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> So Amir has a great chin then, because he's never been unconscious. If you get KO'd, what on earth happened to you if you didn't sustain a concussion?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion_grading_systems
> 
> ...


:rofl You're trying to sound smart by using big words but I can see what you are doing.

Khan has been unconscious what do you think happens when all of a sudden you have no control of your body and you fall to the canvas? The grading you provided is just a system for sport doctors to determine if it is safe for a fighter/athlete to return to the field/ring. Still you provide nothing for the topic at hand. Again and again using examples that have no basis in boxing and cannot be translated to boxing. No, chin is not known and it isn't down to active stiffness which you said can be strengthened and I said so if Khan strengthened his neck he would have a good chin and you said nothing.

Punching power is not down to fast twitch muscles or rhythm or timing or whatever you want to know why? Because this is simply your theory with not a single shred of evidence to back it up. Without the least bit of credible evidence your theory is no more valid than mine that it is due to nerves. Specifically motor neurons.

You are saying I'm stupid when you are blatantly using your own pet theories to back up your claims none of which have any evidence in this topic field.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> :rofl You're trying to sound smart by using big words but I can see what you are doing.
> 
> Khan has been unconscious what do you think happens when all of a sudden you have no control of your body and you fall to the canvas? The grading you provided is just a system for sport doctors to determine if it is safe for a fighter/athlete to return to the field/ring. Still you provide nothing for the topic at hand. Again and again using examples that have no basis in boxing and cannot be translated to boxing. No, chin is not known and it isn't down to active stiffness which you said can be strengthened and I said so if Khan strengthened his neck he would have a good chin and you said nothing.
> 
> ...


Everything has something to do with motor neurons you fucking tard, when you get stronger and learn a movement or move your finger that has to do with motor, sensory and interneurons. Serious question, did you finish grade 4?
A punch is a movement, a throwing movement. There are plenty of biomechanists around the world who know how to create more power in a throwing movement.
If you weren't so dumb you'd realise that I've provided everything you need to understand. I'm not using big words, I'm using the words that describe what I'm talking about.
I'm not sure if you're just trolling, I truly find it hard to believe that someone can be as stupid as you're presenting yourself to be.


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Chin is related to the loss of consciousness aka being KO'd not concussed. One can be KO'd without being concussed and one can be concussed without being KO'd.
> .


Say WHAT?

A KO is absolutely caused by a concussion. There is no other way, unless I guess you just push a guy down (as Wlad did to Povetkin) and then your opponent just quits. Or I guess you could yell "boo!" and your opponent goes down out of fear.

BUT SERIOUSLY: Kindly explain your statement, with specific details. 
How can a fighter be KO'd without receiving a concussion? (I'll wait....)


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Punching power is not down to fast twitch muscles or rhythm or timing or whatever you want to know why? Because this is simply your theory with not a single shred of evidence to back it up.


Well, actually, there's this entire field of study called Kinesiology dedicated to topics like this. Perhaps you should Google it.

Then spend some time searching for that info you claim doesn't exist. It's pretty easy to find.

Dude ...... :-(


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Well, actually, there's this entire field of study called Kinesiology dedicated to topics like this. Perhaps you should Google it.
> 
> Then spend some time searching for that info you claim doesn't exist. It's pretty easy to find.
> 
> Dude ...... :-(


Dude I've heard of Kinesiology it is simply the study of movement. It cannot tell you why a someone punches harder than someone else, or why someone can throw a ball further/faster than someone else.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Cableaddict said:


> Say WHAT?
> 
> A KO is absolutely caused by a concussion. There is no other way, unless I guess you just push a guy down (as Wlad did to Povetkin) and then your opponent just quits. Or I guess you could yell "boo!" and your opponent goes down out of fear.
> 
> ...


Yes, I meant you can be concussed without being KO'd. My bad.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Dealt_with said:


> Everything has something to do with motor neurons you fucking tard, when you get stronger and learn a movement or move your finger that has to do with motor, sensory and interneurons. Serious question, did you finish grade 4?
> A punch is a movement, a throwing movement. There are plenty of biomechanists around the world who know how to create more power in a throwing movement.
> If you weren't so dumb you'd realise that I've provided everything you need to understand. I'm not using big words, I'm using the words that describe what I'm talking about.
> I'm not sure if you're just trolling, I truly find it hard to believe that someone can be as stupid as you're presenting yourself to be.


See you keep deviating from the topic.

I said in this thread that there is both evidence that gives credit and simultaneously discredits the anecdotal evidence. You claimed that someones chin is solely down to "active muscle stiffness" something you said can be strengthened and provided unrelated examples of women in a car accident. I've said twice now because it can be strengthened does that mean if Amir Khan were to do some neck exercises he would have a good chin and you have yet to answer. Why? Because it is a load of bs.

Again in regards to punching power you talk about the movement which every professional knows, yet there are guys at Welter like Bradley then there are guys like Cuevas. If Bradley threw his punches like Cuevas is he going to suddenly get his power? I mean he has been doing the same training for year on end.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Dude I've heard of Kinesiology it is simply the study of movement. It cannot tell you why a someone punches harder than someone else, or why someone can throw a ball further/faster than someone else.


Movement has nothing to do with movements? :huh
Surely you're having a laugh.


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Yes, I meant you can be concussed without being KO'd. My bad.


Back pedal :yep


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## Dealt_with (Jun 4, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> See you keep deviating from the topic.
> 
> I said in this thread that there is both evidence that gives credit and simultaneously discredits the anecdotal evidence. You claimed that someones chin is solely down to "active muscle stiffness" something you said can be strengthened and provided unrelated examples of women in a car accident. I've said twice now because it can be strengthened does that mean if Amir Khan were to do some neck exercises he would have a good chin and you have yet to answer. Why? Because it is a load of bs.
> 
> Again in regards to punching power you talk about the movement which every professional knows, yet there are guys at Welter like Bradley then there are guys like Cuevas. If Bradley threw his punches like Cuevas is he going to suddenly get his power? I mean he has been doing the same training for year on end.


Amir Khan would/has improved his chin due to strengthening it.

Boxers don't know what the fuck they're doing and how to change a movement that they've been performing for years, that is very hard to do. But the factors behind punching are known and are trainable. It's not just movement but a number of physiological and anthropometric factors that are going to make the difference.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Yep sure thing mate and in a few years he's going to have a Basilio/Gavilan-esque chin and if Bradley knew what the fuck he was doing he'd be punching holes through guys like Cuevas. Thanks for confirming what I already knew.

Loma 10:2 Mayweather 4 cereal


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## Uncle Rico (May 24, 2013)

If I notice they have a strong-looking thick neck, then I automoticallu assume they have a good chin - Tyson, Holyfield, Tua, etc.


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## BoxingDomain (Jun 4, 2013)

Uncle Rico said:


> If I notice they have a strong-looking thick neck, then I automoticallu assume they have a good chin - Tyson, Holyfield, Tua, etc.


I used to do the same . . . until I saw Seth Mitchell, now I assume nothing.


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## LuckyLuke (Jun 6, 2013)

BoxingDomain said:


> I used to do the same . . . until I saw Seth Mitchell, now I assume nothing.


Or Wladimir.


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## Bogotazo (May 17, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Yep sure thing mate and in a few years he's going to have a Basilio/Gavilan-esque chin and if Bradley knew what the fuck he was doing he'd be punching holes through guys like Cuevas. Thanks for confirming what I already knew.
> 
> Loma 10:2 Mayweather 4 cereal


Not to disagree with your assertion that some things are natural physical gifts but Bradley's punches were noticeably sharper when he had Hearns working the mitts and giving him instruction. Technique isn't the end all be all but it can improve and I'm sure Khan would at least benefit some from trap and neck exercises that reduce his chance at concussions and mini-concussions.


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## Medicine (Jun 4, 2013)

How about Pavlik... Very long thin neck. Does not look like a guy who can KO you with one punch either.


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## bballchump11 (May 17, 2013)

BoxingDomain said:


> I used to do the same . . . until I saw Seth Mitchell, now I assume nothing.


Mitchell had quit football because of knee injuries. That should be a red alarm right there about his ability to withstand punches


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## Cableaddict (Jun 6, 2013)

MadcapMaxie said:


> Dude I've heard of Kinesiology it is simply the study of movement. It cannot tell you why a someone punches harder than someone else, or why someone can throw a ball further/faster than someone else.


Sure it can. I know as I have a masters degree in it. (It's also known as "biomechanics.") Kinesiology studies PERFORMANCE, not just movement. It's interested in both efficiency & in maximizing results. It;s the backbone of modern sports physiology. (along with nutrition & cellular biology) In school, we studied all manner of sports, including boxing. We used to have them hit an accelerometer & try various punches, foot positions, etc. - And that was over 30 years ago. The science has progressed a lot since then.


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## bald_head_slick (May 23, 2013)

A long neck and small chin are almost a dead giveaway though.


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## bald_head_slick (May 23, 2013)

Medicine said:


> How about Pavlik... Very long thin neck. Does not look like a guy who can KO you with one punch either.


Was his chin great? He started showing signs, speech and substance abuse, fairly quickly.

Also, as Boxing is a game of leverage, long lanky guys are the group most associated with being big punchers in Boxing.


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## pipe wrenched (Jun 4, 2013)

bald_head_slick said:


> Was his chin great? He started showing signs, speech and substance abuse, fairly quickly.
> 
> Also, as Boxing is a game of leverage, long lanky guys are the group most associated with being big punchers in Boxing.


He had a flash KD or 2 and that Round 2 fiasco vs Jermain, but over all he could take stupid punishment and just keep firing...Never stopped..


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## bald_head_slick (May 23, 2013)

pipe wrenched said:


> He had a flash KD or 2 and that Round 2 fiasco vs Jermain, but over all he could take stupid punishment and just keep firing...Never stopped..


He was definitely a monster. IMHO, a chin is about more than being stopped. There is a lot of adrenaline and testosterone in that ring at the time. It is about the you that returns to the ring. How much of himself is a guy leaving in that ring each fight?

Don't get me wrong. I think Kelly was a hell of a fighter. I just think I have problems, given what we are learning about the NFL, with the chicken and the egg scenario when it comes to analyzing his career. What came first and ended his career? The brain or the alcohol damage? I honestly think Kelly, like so many NFL stars, turned to the bottle because of what was going on with his brain.

I wish that warrior the best. He was taken off of the scene far too soon.


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## Medicine (Jun 4, 2013)

bald_head_slick said:


> Was his chin great? He started showing signs, speech and substance abuse, fairly quickly.
> 
> Also, as Boxing is a game of leverage, long lanky guys are the group most associated with being big punchers in Boxing.


Yes his chin was great...You can't stand toe to toe with Miranda and not flinch if your chin is shit..

It is also very clear the long lanky guys pack serious power in boxing especially with straight punches..However he does not fit the description of what a huge puncher would look like compared to guys like Abraham and Miranda who are stocky and look jacked as fuck.









Compare Pavliks body to Mirandas...If you had to guess who was the Puncher and the stronger between the two the average person would assume it was Miranda, however when the fight happened Pavlik destroyed him like you wouldn't believe.


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## MadcapMaxie (May 21, 2013)

Bogotazo said:


> Not to disagree with your assertion that some things are natural physical gifts but Bradley's punches were noticeably sharper when he had Hearns working the mitts and giving him instruction. Technique isn't the end all be all but it can improve and I'm sure Khan would at least benefit some from trap and neck exercises that reduce his chance at concussions and mini-concussions.


Throwing your punches in a certain manner will certainly give 'some' benefits but a guy like Bradley will never be a 'puncher' because he simply doesn't have it. Whatever it may be, nobody knows for sure (unlike what Dealt With thinks). Just like Khan will never have a good chin. Working on developing your neck muscles will help some but it doesn't help with direct blows to the chin which is when guys get KO'd. Ergo Ipso Facto you cannot develop a good chin unless you have one.


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## Wordup (May 16, 2013)

Tex Cobb. Looks like he has a chin made of iron









Has a chin made of iron.


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## MAG1965 (Jun 4, 2013)

It is hard to tell different factors.. A taller fighter who is thin will not take as big a punch as well as a stocky compact guy, although Bruce Seldon always baffled me.. Also, a lot of taking a punch is concentration. I have seen guys fight on the inside and take better punches by knowing the punch is coming compared to when they don't know it is coming. It is a matter of tucking the chin and concentrating and having a thick body. So many factors. The biggest factors are I think thick neck to absorb the punch and concentration.


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## Felix (Mar 13, 2013)

vs:










Does one look substantially sturdier than the other?


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## It's Ovah (Jun 6, 2013)

bballchump11 said:


> you know what another factor could be that also goes with your point is in those KO losses, he was gassed badly and got KO'd. After them, his punch resistance could have been affected in those fights and his chin became true glass later in his career.


I don't think Wlad's chin's ever been pure glass. If anything, he can take a shot better now than he could earlier in his career, though that's partly due to the way he fights. Regardless, he would have been dropped by Haye, Wach and even Thompson before now, had that been the case. Probably stopped by Haye.


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## It's Ovah (Jun 6, 2013)

Felix said:


> vs:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, Eubank does. He's got that square skull thing going on that guys like Tackie have. Benn looks like a wildman, but his chin's a lot narrower and his face just looks softer/rounder.


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## Leftsmash (Oct 22, 2012)

bald_head_slick said:


> Was his chin great? He started showing signs, speech and substance abuse, fairly quickly.
> 
> Also, as Boxing is a game of leverage, long lanky guys are the group most associated with being big punchers in Boxing.


I think it's fair to say his chin was decent. But of course having a good chin doesn't mean you're not going to go unscathed with health problems later on in life. Gerald McClennan had a good chin but the damage was done before his fight with Benn.


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## dyna (Jun 4, 2013)

Qawi was built like an absolute tank and he could also take punches like a tank.
Hagler looks like a 12 year old boy next to him.


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

boxingfan said:


> This guys chin is iron, i dont know about you guys, but i believe size of head has a much greater influence on ones chin than the persons neck does...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Boxingfan!?


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## Theron (May 17, 2013)

MAG1965 said:


> *It is hard to tell different factors.. A taller fighter who is thin will not take as big a punch as well as a stocky compact guy,* although Bruce Seldon always baffled me.. Also, a lot of taking a punch is concentration. I have seen guys fight on the inside and take better punches by knowing the punch is coming compared to when they don't know it is coming. It is a matter of tucking the chin and concentrating and having a thick body. So many factors. The biggest factors are I think thick neck to absorb the punch and concentration.


Salvador Sanchez


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## boxingfan (Aug 1, 2013)

turbotime said:


> Boxingfan!?


What?!


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## turbotime (May 12, 2013)

boxingfan said:


> What?!


:think

If it suited his style do you think Tyson could get up on his toes and dance around the ring like Ali?


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## FelixTrinidad (Jun 3, 2013)

It's Ovah said:


> I don't think Wlad's chin's ever been pure glass. If anything, he can take a shot better now than he could earlier in his career, though that's partly due to the way he fights. Regardless, he would have been dropped by Haye, Wach and even Thompson before now, had that been the case. Probably stopped by Haye.


I disagree there.

How you actually figure out a great chin is power punches taken from big punchers to KO/KD Ratio.

For instance... if you look at Lennox's career and actually watched all his fights you would have noticed
Lennox Lewis took a substantial amount of punishment from some massive punchers.
Bruno-Briggs-Vitali-Tua-Mercer etc.. Tua actually nailed him pretty good a few times. Overall Lewis slugged it out with a long list of punchers and was kayoed once and had a debatable tko the other time.

This shows that Lewis had the ability to take the punches but did not have an GRANITE chin.. certainly underrated.

Vitali who many thought had a 'granite chin' actually only took punishment in two fights. Sanders and Lewis.

Wlad took punishment around 4 fights and was knocked out 3 times and knocked down a shocking 10+ times.

He did fight big punchers in Haye and Wach.. but combined they hit him maybe 4-5 times.

Lewis took more punishment from Mercer in 1 round and walked through it than Wlad did in 24 against Wach and Haye.

Wlad have a GREAT DEFENSE.. but his chin is pure fucking glass.

You can't say 'just because he fought big punchers(actually they are not even big punchers) it equals to him having a decent chin.

Lewis's fight against Ruddock don't even really count towards his chin ratings because he just bombed him out.

You have to actually SHOW THE ABILITY TO TAKE PUNISHMENT FROM BIG PUNCHERS in order to prove your chin.
Wlad never did.


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## boxingfan (Aug 1, 2013)

turbotime said:


> :think
> 
> If it suited his style do you think Tyson could get up on his toes and dance around the ring like Ali?


No i do not, do you?


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## Stone Rose (Jul 15, 2013)

This guy could take a shot


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## tommygun711 (Jun 4, 2013)

MAG1965 said:


> It is hard to tell different factors.. A taller fighter who is thin will not take as big a punch as well as a stocky compact guy, although Bruce Seldon always baffled me..


Jimmy Young had a great chin in and out of his prime


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## It's Ovah (Jun 6, 2013)

FelixTrinidad said:


> I disagree there.
> 
> How you actually figure out a great chin is power punches taken from big punchers to KO/KD Ratio.
> 
> ...


I think your definition of "pure glass" differs from mine. For me, when I hear that phrase I think of truly exceptional bad chins, guys who'd get KOed by glancing jabs and stuff like that. Think Herbie Hide, Bob Satterfield, late Roy Jones and so on. Wlad's been down a lot in his career but how many of those knockdowns were due to a poor chin and how were down to stylistic or balance issues? And how many times was he truly knocked unconscious, or so discombobulated that he could not beat the count? Even against Sanders (his most devastating loss) he was still attempting to get to his feet before he was, rightly, waved off.

Wlad's chin will never be iron, no one's saying that, but considering the amount of big punchers he's fought and beat (Peter, Brewster, McCall, Rahman, Haye, Wach) no amount of good defence would have saved him from catching a sleeper had his chin really been that abysmal. Even the very best defensive fighters need a buffer; no one at heavyweight is _that _good that they can successfully avoid every punch thrown their way. Not Ali, and certainly not Wlad.

For the record, I think Lennox's chin was very good. His main problems were lack of focus rather than lack of chin strength, and at least one of the shots that did him in (Rahman) would have dropped anyone had it landed in the same way. Claiming a man's chin is glass after taking that monster is utterly ridiculous and highlights the lack of critical thinking in many boxing fans' minds, especially when they'd have no hesitation calling Shavers's shot on Holmes one of the hardest shots ever landed, or whatever it is they've been brainwashed to say by the status quo.


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