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Discussion in 'Lounge' started by SwollenGoat, Oct 7, 2013.
I bought Bart Ehrmen in 2000 bro.
I wonder if his position is the same that it's always been
It is historic in the context which the bible recorded known history which has been proven true from an archaelogical, outside historical perspective.
For example, the book of acts of the apostles was thought to be fictitious and Dr Ramsey set to prove it was false. He was an archaeologist and discovered that cities mentioned in Acts was in fact true.
He converted to Christianity.
No it hasn't. The New Testament...yes lots of that is based around well known history. The Old Testament...sure...where was the Tower of Babel, where was Sodom? There is ZERO evidence for numerous places and for pretty much every person who features in the OT. None.
And even if some of it were shown to be true...so what? You'd expect people writing at the time to include points of reference to real places. Greek mythology is packed with mentions of real places and things that Greeks knew. It's also full of utter nonsense like Medusa, Cyclops, and winged horses.
The Bible will obviously include real places like Egypt...and real landmarks, but there is not a shred of evidence for any of the OT figures bar the OT. Circular reasoning is one of the easiest logical fallacies to teach to kids in debate class, it is so straight forward and one of the first ones they find easy to spot. "The Bible is true because it is recorded in the Bible" is probably the most obvious and therefore embarrassing examples of circular reasoning that it's possible to create.
So you are saying Babylon didn't exist.
Nebuddchanezzar didn't exist.
You are in fact wrong.
Of course fucking Babylon existed, remains of it are still around close to Baghdad. Ironic that you bring Babylon up, as it's king at one point was Hammurabi, and his code of rules was nicely ripped off by the authors of the Bible for it's 10 Commandments and other laws.
The Code of Hammurabi was created in 1750 BC, and parts of it still exist. Here is rule 196, look familiar...?
"If a man destroy the eye of another man, they shall destroy his eye. If one break a man's bone, they shall break his bone."
Exactly they existed. They were mentioned in the bible.
The old testament is full of historical facts.
I think you see stories like genesis as historical fact. The places mentioned in Genesis are historical facts. We know Abraham came from the land of Ur.
Land of Ur is on a genuine map.
It's in the book of Genesis.
Now I can't prove Noah or Abraham existed but I do know that the places mentioned existed. Archaeology backs it up.
Nobody knows exactly where Sodom Gomorrah are..but visit Israel, and they'll tell you where it is?
Is Israel lying?
Exactly, you are saying the bible is fantasy when Daniel was exiled in Babylon.
Bible mentions Babylon several times figuratively and historically..
The bible kept a written history of Babylon..
Is it still imagination?
You are misunderstanding the term "historical"
Duh...hamurrabvi was one of the first written codes by man.
I know all about that shit..
The exodus was written a lot earlier than 1750 BC
This is ridiculous. Greek mythology is FULL of historical facts. If you write a set of myths or ideas for a given people it will obviously reference things they know. Jesus fed people with bread and fish...oh wow...we know that bread and fish are real so the story is valid too.
Babylon was recorded by civilisations that predate the Bible. The Bible did not reveal something that was not already known. The Persian Empire invaded Babylon. There are actual relics from Babylon in museums, we don't need the Bible to know about it, ancient historians wrote about it too.
Look, believe whatever you like, it's perfectly harmless. But archaeology does not back up anything other than that some of the places the Bible writers included as settings were or are real. Well duh. London is real...it's where Harry Potter starts out, doesn't make the story real. Crete is real, it is mentioned in the tales of Theseus...doesn't mean Theseus was real or that he killed the Minotaur.
No mention on the code of Hammurabi I notice. Law 196 that predates the Bible does look a bit familiar no?
Are you saying King Hezakiah was an imaginary king recorded in the bible?
His name is recorded in Karnaak in Egypt.
But he didn't exist,.
You are cherrypicking which people did or didn't exist.
Your saying the bible ripped off wut..1 verse of hamarrabi's law?
Yes when people are saying that bible is a historical document, we are talking about places and people..
Not Noah, not anybody mentioned in Genesis. Lets keep Genesis out argument.
Lets talk bout the rest of the old testament that you didn't read. Your saying those people are imaginary...EVERY PERSON is imaginary..
Those are your own words.
No. Go and read up on it. Almost the entire 10 Commandments are ripped off, as is an eye for an eye. This is not some small issue. The very basis of Christianity starts with the idea of God speaking to Moses etc. If the most famous set of Christian laws were actually not delivered by God to Moses, but nicked by some writer of the Bible from a set of laws decreed hundreds of years earlier by a King in Babylon, what does that say about the Bible?
No those are not my words. I am saying that a large number of the people are imaginary, and that there is no evidence whatsoever for the bulk of them, especially those that are protagonists in God's word. So Lot, Methuselah, Noah, Jonah, Abraham, Moses (yes even him)...there is no evidence they existed. None.
None of his more popular works were out back in 2000
You should get a copy of FORGED........or listen to the one I supplied here.............
If you read the bible, it states that the original ark of the covenant which held the original tablets were destroyed or taken off and plundered after King Solomon's kingdom fell.
So all knowledge of jews knowing how to be jews were destroyed.
Nehemiah was given by The power of God to rewrite all which was lost..aka the law.
He happened to be under Babylonian captive.
Your saying the bible ripped off the Babylonians..
I'm saying God gave Nehemiah everything that was written in the penteteuch to recall and record it again..
Im not sure how many times this needs to be explained to you
The existence of New York doesn't make Spider Man a real person.
Now,instead of showing us just how badly you miss the point on some random stuff.....why dont you go listen to Forged by Mr Ehrman and let us know your opinion on the book and its subject
A before and after would be great,in fact
NOW,before youve listened to the book,do you believe there are any forged documents or altered verses in the Bible? Did any editors add or remove verses at some point in the past? Have those alterations and forgeries been passed down to you,via the King James Bible?
Let us know,listen to the book and then let us know if you learned anything from Mr Ehrman,eh?