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Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Ernest Shackleton, Apr 18, 2017.
Fuck all those idiots working on zero hour minimum wage contracts too while you're at it.
Forgive me, but at the most I am deeply unimpressed by the state education system. We currently have selection by wealth. Children condemned by an education so poor, often ideologically driven by clowns. Ready a book like progressively worse by Robert peal for more about what I refer to. I despair at how poor the state education is and I am at despair clinging to radical alternatives.
Um,I do pay for it.
Well that's a much better articulation of your thoughts.
It's a far better explanation of your feelings on the matter than such a massive generalisation in one sentence.
Fair play on that one.
Good. You smackhead prick.
It is an odd chicken and egg or vicious cycle situation now. That cycle needs to be broken and I agree, a very good place to start would indeed be with medicine, engineering and science. How much further that subject range should be expanded is obviously debatable and will be highly contentious.
For example, does the nation need the number of law graduates that get churned out every year? As a law graduate I would say categorically not. The western world is awash with fucking lawyers and people with law degrees and there are thousands more coming out every year. It came home to me how ridiculous it was one day in a lecture when I had a moment of clarity. I looked around the room at my fellow students and wondered which of them I would want representing me if I was standing in the dock one day. The answer was not one of the cunts. Out of a class of thirty. Not. Fucking. One. We don't need more lawyers we need better lawyers.
The interesting thing is that the period the education system served the population and the nation the best was when it was running the system that the Conservatives are advocating reintroducing and are being criticised for trying to do so. Labour is the party that dismantled a functioning system for purportedly an ideology but, as I have said on here before, at least as much for symbolic reasons because of what they incorrectly believed it stood for.The system they dismantled stood alongside the private school system but since they couldn't burn down Eton and Harrow they went for the grammar schools within Local Authority Education Departments instead.
There had been a pure meritocracy regarding certain secondary schools. If the child showed the aptitude then he could opt to go to a grammar. What they left was if the parent had the wallet, he could opt to send the child to a grammar/private school. They didn't build anything from the ground up, they burned roofs and took away ladders. What the Labour politicians involved in the destruction of the education system did was tantamount to malice-fueled treason. "Down with grammar education 'cos toffs, right." Completely ignoring the fact that 99% of the children who went to grammar schools were, in fact, working class and lower-middle class. That was all done by "Socialist Labour". "Old" Labour.
And then, of course, we can talk about who actually introduced tuition fees and wanted to abolish maintenance grants from the gate. Ok, that's "New" Labour, rather than the "Old" Labour. However, Old or New I have no faith in Labour to do the right thing with Education.
That wasn't an answer
I didn't celebrate when the recession happened . Your party didn't do much about taxing the rich last time they were in power either, and the country was a disaster last time an actual left wing government were in power
Since people seem to be attributing quotes to Sturgeon that are at best,speculative,here's her current views straight from the Krankie's mouth.
Just so we're all clear.
You are retarded aren't you?
How wasn't that an answer? Even without a manifesto yet, the process of paying for a lot of these policies has already been laid out, it would take you less than a minute to find this on google. Plenty of ideas and initiatives have been talked about, all of which would raise funding to implement these policies. No matter what though, the discussion is pointless, as instead of admitting that you'd like to see these progressive policies, you're just going to fall back to 'how can we pay for that' even when it's laid out for you. Typical Tory shite.
I didn't say you celebrated the recession, but you do regularly celebrate Tory austerity and agree with the effects of it. So I'll ask again, see if you can finally muster up an answer, why is it ok to punish the poor with years of austerity for the mistakes made by rich, greedy bankers, but out of the question to raise taxes on said rich people to fund policies that would make the majority of people's lives better?
Labour aren't 'my party' either, I have no affiliation with the party. I'll be voting for Corbyn.
Higher corporation tax and reducing subsidies to businesses seems to be Corbyn's answer to increasing spending. That comes with consequences; tax businesses too much and they'll just leave. If, for example, Nissan decided to close their plant in Sunderland and head to central Europe the effects on the north east would be devastating. Thousands of people out of work has huge consequences. It's better to subsidise business to maintain jobs then tax those companies to the point they leave and have to pay all of these people unemployment benefits and leave people's lives ruined. Without an environment that encourages enterprise you leave people out of work with no direction in their lives
Yea, I support austerity. It's the most direct way for the state to manage its budget. Something I have more trust in the Tories doing than any other party
It isn't just Corbyn though, is it? Most of his party have much more in common with Tony Blair than him and they're who he will need to vote for any socialist changes he tries to introduce
What has been the average growth rate of Washington consensus neoliberal countries? And what was it in the 'Golden Age of Capitalism' which was basically social democracy as proselytised by Corbyn? Businesses just upping and leaving is so overplayed, we can't just be held to ransom forever.
Labour ran education for thirteen years shambolically once Blunkett left position. GCSE results went up annually, where as PISa results flatlined. There was grade inflation with the dumbing down of the curriculum as children took Maths and English in little modules or with multiple exam boards and a million attempts.
When Gove came in he put a stop to all this, he has reformed the key stage two and this summer sees the new GCSEs in English and mathematics. But that still will not tackle the shamblolic comprehensive system we have where entire towns are condemned with the super sized shite schools that Labour built.
I realise like you that you can't just start driving all the big companies away mate,but Diageo are the 2nd biggest drinks company in the world and they've just shut down two factories in and near Glasgow because of Brexit.
Given the reliance on the drink manufacturing distilleries here,don't you see why it's another terrifying thing for people North of the border to worry about.
Which then brings people down to the poverty line,and it is them who are harder hit by austerity than anyone else.
And the Tories don't give a fuck about them.There are plenty roundabout you.You're nearer here than London.
Corbyn's old school Labour values are exactly why Labour are unelectable to the layman with a barely basic grasp of politics who just takes his info from the news on TV.
But Tories in charge of austerity hurt the people who bleed most.How so many on here are good with that is a little sad to me.
Interesting article from Nate Silver about the election and identifying that most British polling experts are actually spastics.
They might not be spastics, they might just have been sacrificing themselves when they would otherwise have been proving theyre not spastics. You weren't there! You don't know what they were going through!
Polls don't mean shit anymore.
The last 3 big ones in the US and UK were all wrong.
2015 UK election: polls said labour, tories won handily.
2016 EU referendum: Polls said in, people said out.
2016 US election: Polls said Hillary easy, where is she now?
Polls are yesterday's news. Even if they're right for the next 3 that's still 50-50. Fucking 3 times in a row they've been wrong.
It's an easy way to report something without anyone having to do any of their own research. The polls actually had the US election extrenely close but it wasn't really reported anywhere as the media was convinced Hilary would win and wouldn't countenance an alternative - which probably didn't do her any favours as people would have thought she had the win sewn up and not bothered voting.
If you look at the polls in France as well they're all over the place. Melenchon has gone from 5% to 20% in a couple of days based on what, him looking impressive on the TV? That's nice and all but don't tell me a good showing in a debate alone is going to persuade 15% of the electorate that they've had this all wrong from the start and need to switch horses.
From now until June we're going to get poll after poll after poll which mean nothing but make for nice easy column inches. There was one the othe day trumpeted by the Tories saying they had 44% of the national vote. Based on a survey of 1,700 people. And people take these seriously...
Yep. I went round before the Brexit vote trying to get people to vote remain by shouting 'Beware the Poles', 'The Poles are wrong', 'Down with the Poles'. But no one listened.
Any jobs lost is a sad thing, but ultimately I don't think I can be convinced that the Tories aren't the best of a bad bunch at the moment. Whether austerity was the best way to balance the budget may be debatable, but it is working. Otherwise I trust the Cons more on Brexit, national security, civil liberties, defence, immigration and general stability. I'm not saying they're good on any of these issues but I'd take them over Labour or the Lib Dems
On top of that social justice warriors have absolutely poisoned the left for me. Any party who needs to pander to those lunatics loses credibility with me
Incidentally I've never actually voted Tory. I voted UKIP last time because I didn't expect the Tories to follow through with the EU referendum. The time before I was living abroad, and the time before that I would have voted Lib Dems but I couldn't be arsed registering to vote